FH Mini #111 - Film Programming, with Cristina Cacioppo

[0:00] Hey everybody, remember Flop TV, the one hour online video version of the Flophouse podcast

[0:05] that we produced last year?

[0:06] Well, I'm excited to tell you it is coming back.

[0:09] Flop TV 2, the sequel, will be broadcasting live to your computer screen the first Saturday

[0:14] of every month from September through February.

[0:17] We're talking only about sequels this season.

[0:20] RoboCop 2, Breakin' 2, Highlander 2, Caddyshack 2, Ski School 2, and Ninja Turtles 2, The

[0:26] Secret of the U's.

[0:27] It's going to be all new jokes, all new presentations, movies we have never covered on the show before,

[0:32] all in a tight one hour-ish package.

[0:36] Can't join us the night of the show?

[0:37] That's okay.

[0:38] The videos for every episode will remain online through the end of February, so you can binge

[0:42] them or dole them out as you prefer.

[0:45] So that's Flop TV 2, the first Saturday of every month from September through February.

[0:50] For tickets and more information, go to flophousepodcast.com slash events, again that's flophousepodcast.com

[0:56] slash events, Flop TV 2, everything you loved about Flop TV, but again.

[1:02] Hey everyone, and welcome to another Flophouse Mini.

[1:09] I'm Dan McCoy.

[1:11] I'm Stuart Wellington.

[1:13] And I'm Elliot Kalin.

[1:16] I'm floating away.

[1:17] Sorry about that.

[1:18] Let him go.

[1:19] I turn around, but I don't know how to work.

[1:22] You know, I always thought Elliot was full of hot air.

[1:25] Okay, I'm coming back down now to face these allegations.

[1:30] Okay, well today we have our special guest, Christina Cacioppo, Director of Programming

[1:40] at Nighthawk.

[1:41] I'm only laughing because Dan had this told to him a moment ago and then had it reminded

[1:46] to him a moment ago.

[1:47] Yeah.

[1:48] Yeah, and you can hear and you can see in my face that I had already forgotten the specifics

[1:52] of the title, and that is one of the many short-term memory problems.

[1:58] What I was imagining was you as a pith-helmeted explorer with a machete, hacking your way

[2:04] through all the commercial jingles and TV theme songs you do remember instantly to get

[2:08] to the information that you just found out and needed to know.

[2:11] Yeah, he got through that intro like he had a driving instructor right off his shoulder.

[2:17] Anyway, welcome Christina.

[2:18] We haven't even let you say anything.

[2:20] Welcome.

[2:21] Hello.

[2:23] Thank you for having me.

[2:24] Yes.

[2:25] Thank you for being here.

[2:26] Now, regular listeners, of course, will know that we've referenced you a lot.

[2:32] You've been a friend to the pod for a long time.

[2:36] As we said, you're a programmer at Nighthawk.

[2:39] You've programmed movies a lot of different places, but we're going to start off with

[2:43] personal history.

[2:44] And by personal history, I mean personal history with the flypass.

[2:47] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2:49] Tell me about your history, but how it's important to me.

[2:52] How it affects the three of us particularly.

[2:54] Christina, for anyone who is not part of the New York film scene, especially the New York

[2:59] film theater revival scene and revival screening scene, you will know that Christina is a very

[3:06] important staple, linchpin, central figure in, I feel like, that New York scene and has

[3:13] been for many years.

[3:14] So I'm very excited to have her.

[3:15] Yeah.

[3:16] Thank you.

[3:18] Yes.

[3:19] And a very important place in Flophouse lore because...

[3:24] Keep bringing it back to the Flophouse.

[3:25] There's no compliment that can't be tied back to the Flophouse.

[3:27] Yeah, we're talking about New York film stuff.

[3:30] We're like, what?

[3:31] Like, did you have a Kim's Video membership card?

[3:34] Is that how you check somebody's film bona fides in New York?

[3:38] Ali, you saw my list of questions.

[3:41] You know how they're arranged.

[3:43] That's true.

[3:44] That's true.

[3:46] Eventually, we'll get to the other stuff.

[3:48] But I just wanted to acknowledge that Christina was the first person to sort of get us to

[3:55] do live shows.

[3:56] I think that she programmed us first.

[3:59] And I was going to ask, can you remember which was the very first one and how it came about?

[4:04] Why?

[4:05] Well, I did have to study and cheat a little bit.

[4:08] So because I was like, do I remember this?

[4:12] You know, was the first one.

[4:14] I don't want to tell her it's me.

[4:15] But, you know, luckily I have access to my old 92i Tribeca calendar.

[4:19] Oh, cool.

[4:21] And also spoke to Matt and Ksenia.

[4:23] So, yes, I think our first thing was Twin Sitters.

[4:26] Yeah.

[4:27] I think you're right.

[4:29] And, you know, I was thinking about how it came about.

[4:33] You know, Elliott, we had your series.

[4:36] That was what?

[4:38] Closely Watched Films?

[4:39] Closely Watched Films.

[4:40] I had met Christina because 92i Tribeca, which used to be a downtown film screening space

[4:47] and live show space.

[4:48] Christina, you were the programmer there.

[4:50] And I'm trying to remember who matched us up.

[4:53] But I went over and I met you.

[4:55] We had kind of like a cold meeting just about like.

[4:57] Yeah, you had pitched me on that series and I really liked the idea of it.

[5:01] And so we had started out that way.

[5:04] And I think at the same time Matt and Ksenia were doing I Love Bad Movies.

[5:08] Yes.

[5:09] Well, you know, you guys can fill in the gaps for me from your point of view,

[5:13] because I sort of remember maybe talking to Matt and Ksenia first.

[5:17] Like, I don't really even remember when I met Dan and Stuart.

[5:20] Because they're eternal.

[5:21] They just like.

[5:22] Yeah, I've always been with you.

[5:24] Let's introduce the listening audience to Matt and Ksenia, these characters who have been mentioned.

[5:31] Matt.

[5:32] Carmen.

[5:33] Carmen is known to people, but not known to people who listen to the show as our man behind the scenes.

[5:40] You have enjoyed his work without knowing it probably because he does a lot of tech stuff for us.

[5:47] He helps assemble like the presentation decks for a live show.

[5:51] He runs Flop TV.

[5:53] Any streaming show we've ever done where we're doing live over the Internet.

[5:56] Matt is heavily involved in the tech.

[6:00] And his wife, Ksenia Roche, who I would have introduced first because I've known her longer.

[6:05] She's one of my oldest friends, is also an incredibly valued member of the kind of this Flophouse adjacent, let's say, kind of New York film community.

[6:17] And the two of them, they put out a zine called I Love Bad Movies for quite some time.

[6:21] And they would do bad movie screenings also.

[6:24] And so there are people who have had a big impact on this podcast in particular, even if the audience is not fully aware of them.

[6:31] I thought you were going to say incredibly important to sort of like the nerd world in New York because that's true.

[6:37] I decided to take a page out of the Dan McCoy playbook and only relate things to the Flophouse and the Flophouse's history.

[6:42] Well, they ran the Brooklyn Zine Fest for several years, creative folks.

[6:49] Wait, are zines for nerds, Dan? Is that what you're implying?

[6:52] Yes.

[6:53] Zines used to be for cool people, but now they're for nerds.

[6:57] I don't use that pejoratively anyway.

[7:00] So, yeah, from your point of view, do you remember how the show got pitched?

[7:05] I feel like because twin sitters seem to really be kind of Matt and Ksenia's thing.

[7:09] So, yeah.

[7:14] What do you guys remember about that?

[7:16] Because I just remember it was like, yeah, I was into the idea because we talked about doing this kind of show.

[7:21] Because you did do the live commentary right off the bat.

[7:24] Yeah.

[7:25] Yeah.

[7:26] Yeah.

[7:27] So the idea was that we were going to do this show that would have this sort of presentation element, which I think ended up being kind of babysitter related maybe.

[7:34] And then you guys were going to do the commentary.

[7:37] So, yeah.

[7:38] What are your memories?

[7:40] Well, I mean, it was a riff show, like you say.

[7:44] Like our early shows were usually us cracking wise over the movies.

[7:49] Which is hard.

[7:50] Mystery Science Theater.

[7:51] It's hard to do.

[7:52] You weren't scripting it, right?

[7:54] No.

[7:55] You were being off the cuff.

[7:56] Yeah.

[7:57] And we put that aside partly because it was hard, but partly because when we started touring with shows, like when you do that kind of show, you have to clear the screening.

[8:06] Like you have to do it with a movie theater usually who has a programmer like you who can do all this stuff for us.

[8:12] And we wanted to be more mobile than that.

[8:15] I don't know.

[8:16] And it was in what?

[8:17] Like a 70 seat theater?

[8:18] Really small.

[8:19] Yeah.

[8:20] Yeah.

[8:21] And the thing that they reminded me of, because I forgot that we eventually moved to that big not really movie theater space for Jaws of Revenge.

[8:27] Yeah.

[8:28] Yeah.

[8:29] This last show.

[8:31] Because that capacity I think we maybe could seat like 150 or something.

[8:36] And the joke was that it sold out before an event we had with Peter Bogdanovich.

[8:42] Do you remember that?

[8:43] Oh, that's right.

[8:44] I forgot about that.

[8:45] Oh, man.

[8:46] There's a long history of the flop house fucking over Peter Bogdanovich.

[8:50] Yeah.

[8:51] Yeah.

[8:52] We're really the ones who were wrecking his life for decades.

[8:54] Yeah.

[8:55] Yeah.

[8:56] Sure.

[8:57] I feel like you guys met someone at the Jaws.

[8:58] Was it Adam Rifkin?

[8:59] Was that who was there?

[9:00] It was Adam Resnick.

[9:01] Adam Resnick.

[9:02] Adam Resnick.

[9:03] I can't.

[9:04] His name's mixed up.

[9:05] The co-creator of Get a Life and someone who was a very important kind of like comedy writer figure for me.

[9:10] Yeah.

[9:11] Kevin Boyd.

[9:12] We had mixed him for Kevin Boyd.

[9:13] So he had brought maybe his daughter?

[9:14] Yep.

[9:15] His daughter was a listener.

[9:16] Yeah.

[9:17] She was a fan.

[9:18] Yeah.

[9:19] Yeah.

[9:20] Yeah.

[9:21] I think he wasn't familiar with the show.

[9:22] I forgot about that.

[9:23] Yeah.

[9:24] And it was really cool to meet him afterwards.

[9:25] And he was like, that was a really funny show.

[9:26] You guys obviously put a lot of thought into the jokes.

[9:27] And I want to be like, no, we didn't.

[9:28] So we did a couple of.

[9:29] That was a pretty exciting moment for me.

[9:30] We did a couple of.

[9:31] How many shows?

[9:32] We did like two or three shows in that smaller venue because we did.

[9:35] Maybe even more because I was looking it over.

[9:38] And so it was twin sitters.

[9:39] It was 12 rounds.

[9:40] I forgot we did 12 rounds.

[9:41] Rats at some point.

[9:42] Rats.

[9:43] We did Quiet Cool.

[9:44] Don't tell her it's me.

[9:45] Quiet Cool.

[9:46] Quiet Cool.

[9:47] Yeah.

[9:48] So it might have been like five or six.

[9:49] Yeah.

[9:50] In that space.

[9:51] That was fun.

[9:52] And then we moved up to the big leagues.

[9:53] The bigger room in the same.

[9:54] And then the venue closed.

[9:55] Yeah.

[9:56] Yeah.

[9:57] That's one of the things that I remember most about.

[10:00] about when we made the move to the larger venue there,

[10:05] was every time we did one of those shows,

[10:07] I was bartending, and for me to do a show,

[10:10] I would have to take a night off work.

[10:12] And that's not like, oh, I'm still getting paid,

[10:15] I'm getting sick pay, it's like,

[10:16] no, I'm just not making money that night.

[10:18] Yeah, you were taking a financial hit to do this.

[10:19] Yeah, because I think 92i never let us pay anybody anything,

[10:23] so sorry about that.

[10:24] I feel like that was the, I could be wrong,

[10:27] but I feel like that might have been the first time

[10:29] where I'm like, oh, no, I basically made

[10:32] the same amount of money I might have made

[10:33] if I'd been bartending for eight hours that night,

[10:36] which was, I mean, as a performer, is huge.

[10:39] That's a huge deal to be like, oh, this,

[10:41] I'm making more doing this than my day,

[10:43] like, literally, than my day job in this thing.

[10:46] Yeah, although your day job is technically a night job.

[10:48] Yeah, oh, wow, makes you think, right?

[10:52] Well, you were-

[10:53] It's like that old thing, why do we park on a driveway,

[10:55] but we drive on a parkway, you know?

[10:57] You referred to this kind of in passing, but-

[10:59] What?

[11:00] Oh, God, you broke his brain.

[11:04] But I wanted to ask more outright, you know,

[11:07] you talked about the Bogdanovich thing.

[11:09] I know that when Elliot had closely watched films,

[11:11] he would complain about, like, I can't get people

[11:13] to come to this good movie, but they'll come out

[11:15] in droves for a bad movie.

[11:17] Does that ever frustrate you as a programmer,

[11:19] or what are your feelings on those things?

[11:21] Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a funny thing,

[11:24] because it's like, I know there are audiences

[11:26] for more intense stuff, like other venues,

[11:30] you know, I think sort of, I think the thing is

[11:32] when you try to do so many things,

[11:34] like, you get known for one thing and then not the other,

[11:38] so when you're a venue that only shows experimental film,

[11:41] like, you're probably getting your audience,

[11:43] but if you try to do a lot of things,

[11:45] different types of things-

[11:45] Yeah, experimental film, like what,

[11:47] like Memento or Forrest Gump or something?

[11:50] Yes.

[11:51] Yeah, yeah, experimental.

[11:51] Shown together with one soundtrack over the other.

[11:54] Oh, shoot.

[11:55] Oh, wow.

[11:57] It's a slowdown, so it takes 24 hours

[11:58] to watch the entire movie, yeah.

[11:59] Exactly, but I mean, I think it's definitely

[12:02] always been a thing where it's like the movie

[12:04] that you sort of covet and love the most,

[12:06] like, less people are gonna come out for it,

[12:09] and it was a lesson I learned very early

[12:10] into doing all this, and I, you know,

[12:12] I kind of learned to just stop having my heart

[12:15] broken by stuff like that,

[12:16] because sometimes there's a good win, you know,

[12:18] and it's not always that way.

[12:21] So yeah, I think that when that, you know,

[12:25] happens, it's kind of frustrating,

[12:26] but it's just about kind of like building your audience

[12:28] and knowing who you're reaching

[12:30] and having some consistency, you know?

[12:32] This is a totally off topic, but sorry.

[12:35] Speaking of 24-hour movies, did you see the,

[12:37] happened to see the Letterboxd Paul Schrader review

[12:39] where he talked about, he went to see The Clock,

[12:41] and he was like, I decided I'm gonna stay here

[12:43] until I see one of my own movies.

[12:45] And he was rewarded after 45 minutes,

[12:49] he finally saw American Gigolo, so that was pretty good.

[12:51] That's really good.

[12:52] I mean, The Clock is a,

[12:54] for anyone who's not familiar with it,

[12:55] it is a 24-hour movie made up of scenes

[12:58] from other movies where you see the time,

[13:01] and it is timed so that when you are watching it,

[13:04] it functions as a clock.

[13:06] So like you are watching it, and you're like,

[13:08] oh, it's 10, 11 a.m., and you look on screen,

[13:10] and it's the clock say 10, 11 a.m. in whatever scene.

[13:12] And I remember when that was,

[13:14] when that finally made it to New York,

[13:16] I was playing at Lincoln Center

[13:17] for a certain amount of time,

[13:18] I was like, I went to see like an hour and a half of it

[13:21] before work one day, and I was like,

[13:22] if I was in college right now,

[13:23] I would stay for 24 hours.

[13:25] I'd watch this whole thing.

[13:26] I wanna see all the nighttime clock scenes,

[13:28] but it's hard to do.

[13:29] I have to find, someone has to send me a bootleg of it

[13:31] so I can watch it in chunks at the wrong times.

[13:33] You know?

[13:34] Yeah, yeah.

[13:34] So I'm gonna close out this solipsistic section of it

[13:39] with the most self-serving question in the section.

[13:42] Uh-huh, yeah, I wanna.

[13:43] How are we to work with?

[13:44] You know, you kept inviting us back,

[13:46] was it just because we put butts in seats,

[13:48] and you're like, oy, these three goobers,

[13:50] or did you, what's our goober quotient?

[13:54] It's funny because you kindly sent me these questions

[13:57] in advance so that I could be prepared,

[13:59] and I feel like this should have been one

[14:01] that you just sprung on me, like put me on the spot.

[14:05] Spoken like a true programmer, making the show better.

[14:07] Of course you were wonderful to work with.

[14:09] You know, there was, it's not like there were demands

[14:12] or drama or anything, it was always like,

[14:15] you know, we would maybe have a little bit

[14:16] of a back and forth about what movie to do,

[14:19] but yeah, of course, it was always an event

[14:21] that I looked forward to,

[14:22] even once we moved over to Alamo,

[14:24] like, you know, I was always really glad,

[14:26] I mean, you guys even made it up to Yonkers,

[14:29] which, you know, multiple times.

[14:31] Yeah, so, yeah.

[14:33] After, because after 9-2-I closed,

[14:35] yeah, you weren't programming the Yonkers, Alamo,

[14:37] because there wasn't an Alamo in New York City yet, right?

[14:39] Yeah, yeah, I got a little bait and switch

[14:42] and had to be in Yonkers for three dark years,

[14:46] but I try not to think about, but yeah,

[14:48] it was a very bright spot to be able

[14:50] to bring you guys up there,

[14:52] and then, you know, even continuing to Brooklyn.

[14:55] You also, you organized that screening of Castle Freak.

[14:57] Yeah, and I was thinking about that, too, yeah.

[15:00] Yeah, Jonathan came up, and he was an awesome guest.

[15:03] Yeah, I mean, I drove him around,

[15:04] like, I got him from the airport,

[15:05] I brought him from Birmingham, Alabama,

[15:08] and yeah, I was thinking about that, too,

[15:09] in addition to, you know, the, like, you know,

[15:12] commentary events, that doing something like that

[15:14] was just like, because it was just kind of a lark

[15:17] to be like, we're gonna show Castle Freak,

[15:18] because I could get a film print,

[15:20] and I could get just, like, for some reason,

[15:22] Alamo let me fly this guy out, you know,

[15:24] like, I don't know how that's.

[15:27] This was the titular Castle Freak.

[15:28] Yeah, Giorgio, yeah.

[15:29] Who played Giorgio the Castle Freak,

[15:31] and yeah, it was amazing to have him there.

[15:31] And he was a sweetheart, and like,

[15:33] I remember, I drove Dan and Elliot,

[15:35] I drove Dan and Elliot up there.

[15:37] It was the middle of a snowstorm,

[15:39] and it was like, the theater was like half full,

[15:42] but he was such a sweetheart,

[15:43] and he had so many good stories

[15:45] about, like, the makeup effects

[15:46] and, like, just running around Charles Band's castle.

[15:49] Yeah, so having an excuse to do something like that

[15:51] was definitely great.

[15:52] So yes, of course, if anyone's looking to book you guys,

[15:55] I sign off on you.

[15:57] Aw, thank you.

[15:58] Like that time we did the Don't Tell Her It's Me screening,

[16:01] and the print was in Italian?

[16:03] Yeah, that's something worth bringing up.

[16:04] And we just rolled with it.

[16:06] Yeah.

[16:07] That's worth bringing up,

[16:08] because it is such a funny detail,

[16:10] that, you know, when you get a film print,

[16:12] like, normally you're checking it out,

[16:14] and there's, you know,

[16:15] we just didn't have the luxury

[16:17] of looking at stuff that far in advance,

[16:20] so we had only kind of put it on screen

[16:22] right before the show was about to start,

[16:24] and then, you know, I was like,

[16:26] something is wrong here,

[16:28] and realized it was dubbed in Italian,

[16:30] but luckily Matt had, like, a file or something,

[16:33] so we just, like, you know.

[16:34] Yeah, yeah, he had it on the go.

[16:36] Yeah, luckily we didn't have to scream it, you know.

[16:37] He had a thumb drive with it, yeah.

[16:39] Tasha's keychain.

[16:40] Yeah, such a weird detail, but.

[16:41] He just always happens to carry a thumb drive

[16:43] with Don't Tell Her It's Me on him at all times.

[16:46] In case of emergency, yeah.

[16:48] But that's the thing that I always think about now,

[16:50] when I get a film print that I know

[16:51] probably hasn't screened in forever,

[16:54] like, I'm always like, it might look good,

[16:56] but I wanna see it on screen,

[16:58] because it might be dubbed in Italian.

[17:00] Yeah.

[17:02] We rifted Italian.

[17:03] Yeah.

[17:05] So I, moving into more just general film programming,

[17:08] I think that this is sort of a dream job

[17:11] for a lot of movie nerds,

[17:13] because there's something in the movie nerd DNA

[17:15] that makes us want to share movies we love

[17:18] or force them on people,

[17:20] because I think the most annoying version of that

[17:23] is me being like, Audrey, Audrey, let's watch this,

[17:28] and her being like, I have my own things.

[17:30] But yours is sort of the best case scenario of that impulse,

[17:35] and I don't know, it seems like such a rarefied,

[17:41] great job, like, how did you get here?

[17:44] Like, what led you here?

[17:47] Yeah, I mean, it's not a thing that you automatically,

[17:49] like, no little girl is like,

[17:51] I wanna grow up to be a programmer, you know?

[17:53] But I'm assuming a bunch of our listeners

[17:56] do wanna be programmers.

[17:57] Yeah, they might.

[17:59] But I think I, you know.

[18:01] So keep back a key piece of information

[18:03] so you don't have to fight them.

[18:04] Yeah, well, first of all,

[18:05] there's probably only like 100 of those jobs

[18:07] in the entire country, so, you know,

[18:10] and all those people are gonna do them until they die,

[18:12] so, yeah, don't pursue it.

[18:15] It's like film criticism that way,

[18:17] where it's like, oh, I'd love to be a film reviewer,

[18:19] and it's like, okay, well, there's 10 people who do it,

[18:21] and they're never gonna go in.

[18:22] And they get paid nothing, yeah.

[18:24] I don't know, Dan has a pretty good letterbox to everybody.

[18:27] Yeah, and that draws in, what?

[18:30] I mean, it's no Paul Schrader's letterbox, but still, yeah.

[18:34] So yeah, I was actually kinda lucky, you know,

[18:36] I was going to school for film in Florida,

[18:40] and, you know, it was sort of a vague degree

[18:42] I was pursuing in film studies,

[18:44] but we had a campus cinema.

[18:46] And when I first started going to school,

[18:48] the campus cinema was great.

[18:50] Like, I actually had come up to see Pink Flamingos

[18:52] before I was even going to school there.

[18:54] I had seen Bitter Tears of Petra van Kant.

[18:56] And then all of a sudden, it was, something was off.

[19:00] And it's funny, because this being sort of

[19:03] the 25th anniversary of The Mummy,

[19:05] this is like when I was programming,

[19:07] The Mummy showing in second run to me

[19:09] was like the epitome of the theater going downhill.

[19:12] It's so funny, because I know it's kind of a classic now,

[19:14] but back then, it was like, why are they showing The Mummy?

[19:18] And so I came to find that it was student run,

[19:20] and that you could join this, you know, this thing.

[19:23] And so I joined it probably my junior year,

[19:26] and then by my senior year, I became the director

[19:29] of the programming for that cinema.

[19:31] And, you know, that's where I learned about

[19:34] working with distributors and getting catalogs.

[19:36] Like back then, you would get sort of a printed catalog

[19:39] from the distributor, and you would book movies,

[19:41] and I would learn about booking 35 millimeter,

[19:43] because that's basically all there, you know,

[19:45] maybe you could get a DVD or something.

[19:47] So you took it over just in time

[19:48] to program The Mummy Returns.

[19:50] The superior of The Mummy series.

[19:55] I mean, it's crazy to think of that time,

[19:56] because, you know, it was like,

[19:58] they came to us with a preview screening

[20:00] this movie called Velvet Goldmine, and we were like,

[20:02] what is this thing, you know?

[20:03] Cool.

[20:04] Yeah, so, and that's also-

[20:05] There's no goldmine in this movie.

[20:07] Do you think of gold with Roger Moore?

[20:10] Yeah, yeah, just the title sequence,

[20:12] I think about it a lot, yeah.

[20:14] So that's where I started to learn about programming,

[20:16] like, you know, some for them, some for yourself,

[20:19] you know, where you would, you know,

[20:21] the idea was that you didn't wanna lose money,

[20:25] but, you know, like, you didn't want it to just be

[20:28] sort of like the mummy in second run.

[20:30] So, you know, so that's kind of where I was learning

[20:33] about that, and, you know, when I moved to New York,

[20:38] I, you know, I moved right after I graduated,

[20:40] and I wasn't really sure that programming was a job,

[20:42] like, you know, like, I was kinda like, you know,

[20:45] I had started by, you know, I was interning at Killer Films,

[20:48] I was thinking I was gonna, like, devote myself

[20:50] to, like, indie productions, and that very quickly

[20:53] proved to just, like, be a terrible idea.

[20:57] So at the same time, I was volunteering

[20:59] with this collective called Ocularis

[21:01] that used to do screenings that were largely, like,

[21:04] experimental or local filmmaker things,

[21:06] and from them, I learned sort of about, kind of,

[21:08] building community and stuff like that,

[21:11] and then, yeah, I just was kinda like, wait,

[21:13] maybe this can, you know, be a living,

[21:16] and it, you know, it took a while,

[21:18] and a lot of, like, volunteering and stuff,

[21:20] but eventually, it, you know, it proved to be

[21:22] something that I could actually get paid for, you know.

[21:27] Well, that leads into the next question,

[21:28] because, of course, like we said,

[21:29] we first knew you at 92, why Tribeca

[21:32] sort of follows you through the Alamo to Nighthawk,

[21:37] where, like, you know, Ellie's out of town,

[21:39] but occasionally, Stuart and I will be

[21:42] half the pleasure of introducing something.

[21:45] Introducing something, we're there all the time.

[21:47] Okay, because I was saying, half the Flophouse-

[21:48] Yeah, you guys are there more than me, I think.

[21:50] Yeah, I'm there all the time.

[21:51] Half the Flophouse text chain is the two of you

[21:53] talking about the movie you just saw at Nighthawk together

[21:55] or the movie you're about to go see at Nighthawk together.

[21:58] Or when we go on a hot dog date.

[21:59] There's all, Dan and I have a lot of fun, okay?

[22:01] That hot dog date really confused Elliot.

[22:04] Yeah, because nobody explained anything about it to me.

[22:07] Just, all you said was how you wiener-fied each other.

[22:10] Yeah, we wiener-fied our life, yeah.

[22:12] Honestly, there's not much more to it

[22:14] than we got some hot dogs together.

[22:16] But I got Dan to admit that

[22:18] a Chicago-style hot dog has value.

[22:21] I was never a fan, too many veggies for me.

[22:24] I was like, give me the unadorned hot dog

[22:27] with a little mustard and maybe some onions.

[22:29] But anyway, it was good, it was good.

[22:31] He was singing a different tune after that wiener,

[22:34] let me tell you.

[22:35] You're talking about dog days?

[22:37] Yeah, we went to dog day afternoon, yeah.

[22:39] Right down the street from the Nighthawk.

[22:42] Well, I think that started out as a question about,

[22:46] are there other places sort of along the way

[22:49] that you were working as a programmer

[22:51] or that I missed in your-

[22:54] It took some time.

[22:56] Like I said, I was doing the volunteer thing

[22:58] in New York with Ocularis.

[23:00] That was at a space called Galapagos,

[23:02] which was in Williamsburg-

[23:03] Oh, yeah, I remember Galapagos, for sure.

[23:05] And they were sort of like a,

[23:06] it was all volunteer run.

[23:08] And then, the thing is, I moved to Boston for a few years,

[23:13] and so I was kind of trying to get something going there.

[23:16] And I had this job at this women in film organization,

[23:20] which it was sort of, I was kind of the only employee,

[23:23] and I worked with the board,

[23:24] but they let me do programming.

[23:26] So I just would sort of do programming wherever I could,

[23:29] because we didn't have a venue,

[23:30] so I'd do programming at the library

[23:31] or in an outdoor garden or at a gallery.

[23:35] And then I also got a job

[23:37] with the Boston Jewish Film Festival,

[23:38] and that was sort of like an assistant

[23:41] to the main programmer doing like,

[23:43] watching submissions and stuff like that.

[23:46] And then, yeah, I moved back to New York

[23:48] and pretty much just got kind of lucky,

[23:52] as 92nd Street Y was gonna open this venue in Tribeca

[23:57] and had posted this job that was like film related.

[24:00] So that was sort of like my trajectory over those years.

[24:08] Just to interrupt, is there,

[24:09] outside of obviously scheduling

[24:10] really fun Flophouse-related shows,

[24:13] do you have any highlights from your careers,

[24:16] like any screenings that you're particularly proud of

[24:19] for organizing?

[24:19] Yeah, yeah, I mean,

[24:20] I know that Dan wanted to get there eventually,

[24:22] so I don't know if you wanna just jump in.

[24:24] Oh, do I jump in there?

[24:25] Sorry.

[24:26] Well, I don't know what the,

[24:28] I don't know what the question was.

[24:30] There's one layer on that kind of relates to that,

[24:31] but you can answer it now.

[24:32] Yeah, yeah.

[24:34] I mean, the funny thing is that I remember

[24:36] a lot of the 92Y stuff like kind of most fondly.

[24:39] There was a show that we did

[24:42] where we invited Amy Sedaris

[24:44] to watch the 70s like drug scare movie,

[24:47] Go Ask Alice.

[24:49] Oh, wow.

[24:50] It was based on the sort of famous anonymous book.

[24:54] They had made a TV movie.

[24:55] And I knew there was like this 16 million year print,

[24:59] and I was like, I wanna show it,

[25:00] and I bet that she is into it

[25:02] because of Strangers with Candy.

[25:03] And it turns out she's like, yeah, we stole from that.

[25:05] And she was happy to come.

[25:07] And then because she came,

[25:08] the actress who was in the movie

[25:10] as like the main star like flew herself

[25:14] to New York.

[25:15] You know, I think she had become like a interior designer

[25:18] to the stars or something like, you know,

[25:21] but she was like so psyched that Amy Sedaris

[25:23] was gonna do this show.

[25:25] So she ended up coming.

[25:28] And so that was a really fun one

[25:29] because, you know, Amy Sedaris was sitting behind me

[25:32] watching the movie and just like cracking up the whole time.

[25:34] And then we just kind of did the Q&A with them,

[25:36] which Tom Blunt had hosted.

[25:40] Yeah, there are so many other things

[25:45] that I've done over the years that were really fun.

[25:47] You know, even more recently at Nighthawk

[25:50] doing the screening of Book of Shadows, Blair Witch 2

[25:53] with the director Joe Berlinger was really great

[25:57] because, you know, it was a movie that was like really,

[26:01] obviously like disliked when it came out.

[26:03] And, you know, Joe Berlinger was like a famous,

[26:06] you know, documentary filmmaker.

[26:07] And this was his, you know, foray into fiction.

[26:12] And the movie has actually got a lot of good stuff in it.

[26:15] You know, it got taken away from him

[26:17] and doing a screening like that

[26:18] because he came for the Q&A

[26:20] and he felt it was sort of cathartic for him.

[26:23] And like, I really like when, you know,

[26:25] when you invite a director and they're actually into it

[26:28] because, you know, so many directors have to do

[26:31] so many Q&As and they're kind of over it.

[26:32] But, you know, like he actually was like really like

[26:35] into revisiting it and feeling sort of like,

[26:40] you know, it was like validated in some way.

[26:46] That would have been interesting.

[26:47] I missed that screening,

[26:48] but I saw it for the first time recently.

[26:50] I knew that it was taken away from him.

[26:52] So it's not exactly what he would have wanted per se,

[26:55] but I feel like at the time people were mad at it

[26:58] for not being the first movie.

[26:59] I'm like, well, that's a trick you can play once, you know?

[27:02] Like, I think it's interesting.

[27:04] And the whole idea for him was to play on that.

[27:06] Yeah, exactly.

[27:07] That it wasn't gonna be like that.

[27:10] Yeah, what else?

[27:11] I mean-

[27:12] I remember, I think you programmed this,

[27:14] but it was a screening with Don Cascarelli.

[27:17] It was a screening of Phantasm and John Dies at the end,

[27:19] the double feature.

[27:20] And Don Cascarelli came out and I was like so psyched.

[27:24] And I, in between screenings,

[27:26] I like went to go get an autograph on a Phantasm poster.

[27:29] And I was behind, I was in line behind like dudes

[27:32] that were getting like Japanese VHS tapes

[27:35] of like Phantasm 2 autographs.

[27:37] I'm like, I can't measure up to these guys.

[27:40] They're too nerdy for me.

[27:42] Yeah, I mean, I also, you know,

[27:43] I got Hal Needham out for a screening.

[27:46] Wow.

[27:47] Which was really great.

[27:48] You know, I think he died like only a year or two after that

[27:51] because I remember I was, you know, switching over to Alamo.

[27:54] You had nothing to do with his death.

[27:55] Nothing, yeah.

[27:57] He hadn't seen me for years.

[28:00] I can prove it.

[28:01] It was a very slow acting poison, very slow.

[28:05] Yeah, I mean, there's just kind of so many

[28:08] that it's sort of hard to pinpoint,

[28:10] but, you know, I feel lucky that I got to do any of it.

[28:16] If I can interrupt for a second,

[28:18] when you were programming at 92i Tribeca,

[28:20] it felt like such a special place.

[28:22] And I'm sure Nighthawk does now too.

[28:24] But I remember at that time,

[28:25] it felt like there was a real,

[28:27] there was such a cool sense of community around there

[28:29] that you were creating with the way you were programming it.

[28:31] And like Kevin Marr would do his show,

[28:32] would do his Kevin Geeks Out shows there.

[28:34] And we could do stuff there.

[28:36] And I was hosting my screening stuff

[28:38] and Max Henney would do I Love Bad Movies stuff.

[28:40] And it felt like it was a,

[28:42] this became such a beautiful combination of like a theater

[28:45] that was showing really fun, interesting stuff

[28:47] and like a clubhouse that like people really felt comfortable

[28:50] being at and hanging out at.

[28:52] And it was just great.

[28:53] There was one screening,

[28:54] I don't know if you remember when we showed Little Murders

[28:57] and Jules Feiffer came and talked about it.

[28:59] And it was amazing.

[29:00] That was, I think about that all the time.

[29:01] It was such an amazing thing to get to talk to him

[29:03] and to have him there for that.

[29:05] It was so cool.

[29:05] Yeah, I mean, sometimes it was kind of miraculous

[29:07] because again, we didn't pay anybody to do anything.

[29:09] So, you know, getting people to come out just by me saying like,

[29:14] hey, we're showing this movie, will you do this?

[29:16] You know, and yeah,

[29:17] Little Murders is definitely one of the more memorable ones too.

[29:21] That was amazing.

[29:21] And I do remember that one of the first things you said to me,

[29:23] I think when I met you,

[29:24] when we first started talking about me hosting something there,

[29:26] you were like, by the way, we don't pay any money.

[29:29] And I was like, uh, you were like, if you really demanded it,

[29:33] maybe we could come up with some kind of like

[29:36] very small honorarium.

[29:37] And me being a young, dumb person, I was like,

[29:39] but you don't need to pay me money to do it.

[29:41] I don't even want that.

[29:42] As opposed to being like, yeah, yeah,

[29:43] give me whatever I can get, you know?

[29:44] I mean, it was crazy.

[29:45] Cause when I first started the job,

[29:48] I was kind of like, what's my budget?

[29:50] And they were like, well, nothing.

[29:52] And I was like, well, but I have to pay for films,

[29:56] like to, you know, you have to pay for film rights

[29:58] and to get films.

[29:59] And they were like, but we're.

[30:00] for non-profit, and I was like, that doesn't matter.

[30:03] So I mean, that's the thing, even in that small room,

[30:05] if we were paying for film rights and film shipping,

[30:09] we were not breaking even, you know?

[30:10] So it's not even like we were raking it in

[30:12] and just not sharing money, it just didn't break even.

[30:17] You did a great job of shielding, I think,

[30:18] the people doing shows and hosting things there

[30:21] from all of that stuff, yeah.

[30:24] I mean, it was kind of ridiculous, but yeah,

[30:28] eventually, when I got to Alamo, it was like,

[30:31] yes, I could pay people, so I tried to continue working

[30:34] with whoever I had worked with so that, you know,

[30:37] there was some compensation, finally.

[30:39] We did, and I feel like one of the first shows

[30:42] we did up in Yonkers was the Flophouse Prom,

[30:45] where we rented a couple of buses to take people

[30:49] from Charlene's up to Yonkers and then back.

[30:54] Yeah, was that Sleepwalkers?

[30:56] It might have been Sleepwalkers.

[30:56] I think it was Sleepwalkers,

[30:57] that was really fun.

[31:00] Yeah, maybe, I mean, we've had arguably bigger successes

[31:05] since then, but to me, that was the peak of,

[31:07] like, we've rented two buses, school buses.

[31:11] We put garbage bags with ice and Coors Light in them

[31:16] and put them in the back of the bus.

[31:18] Guess what, you're going on an expenses-paid trip

[31:20] to Yonkers.

[31:23] Beautiful Yonkers, as immortalized in Hello, Dolly!

[31:26] As a place you want to leave.

[31:28] Yeah, or if Dan lost in Yonkers,

[31:30] a place he can get lost in, yeah.

[31:32] This is kind of a broad question,

[31:34] but after so many years, do you have, like,

[31:36] an idea of, like, what, like, audiences respond to,

[31:39] like, get people out?

[31:40] Like, what puts butts in seat?

[31:41] What's, like, the hook, whether it's, like,

[31:43] something beyond the movie or just a certain type of thing?

[31:46] She's gonna say Deadpool.

[31:48] She's just gonna say Deadpool, Dan.

[31:49] Listeners, if you notice, that's also the second question

[31:51] Dan has asked that involves putting butts in seats.

[31:54] I think we can take the theme there for Dan.

[31:58] I mean, it's kind of hard to say, you know, like,

[32:02] for me, it's like, I feel like if I'm excited

[32:04] about something, somebody else is bound

[32:05] to be excited about it.

[32:07] So that's sort of the first approach.

[32:09] You know, like, I'm somebody who abhors marketing

[32:11] and, like, I hate the idea that you have to figure out

[32:14] how to market something.

[32:15] I feel like if it's just good, like,

[32:17] people will figure it out and come.

[32:20] So yeah, when it comes to hooks, you know,

[32:22] like, for a time, I was doing things like sing-alongs

[32:25] and stuff like that, and I think that was really appealing,

[32:28] and having movies that have, like, a nostalgic value

[32:30] is, you know, is nice, but it, you know,

[32:34] I think the bottom line is that it has to be something

[32:37] that just seems fun or interesting, you know?

[32:39] Like, I don't wanna think about, like,

[32:41] oh, people are gonna be excited because, you know,

[32:44] they're gonna, like, have a food special or something.

[32:47] You know, like, that's sort of not the line of thinking

[32:49] that I like to be on.

[32:52] Well, we're gonna take a little break

[32:54] to talk about Flop TV season two

[32:57] and possibly a couple of other things,

[32:59] and we'll be back in just a little bit.

[33:02] ♪♪

[33:07] Hey, everybody, I'm Jeremy.

[33:09] I'm Oscar.

[33:09] I'm Dimitri.

[33:10] And we are the Eurovangelists.

[33:12] For a weekly podcast spreading the word

[33:14] of the Eurovision Song Contest,

[33:16] the most important music competition in the world.

[33:18] Maybe you already heard Glenn Weldon

[33:20] of NPR's pop culture happy hour

[33:21] talk up our coverage of this year's contest.

[33:23] But what do we talk about in the off season?

[33:25] The rest of Eurovision, duh.

[33:27] There are nearly seven decades of pop music history to cover.

[33:30] Mm-hmm.

[33:31] We've got thousands of amazing songs,

[33:33] inspiring competitors, and so much drama to discuss.

[33:36] And let me tell you, the drama is juicy.

[33:39] Plus, all the gorillas and bread-baking grandmas

[33:41] that make Eurovision so special.

[33:43] Check out Eurovangelists available

[33:44] everywhere you get podcasts.

[33:46] And you could be a Eurovangelist, too.

[33:47] Ooh, I wanna be one.

[33:48] You already are.

[33:50] Oh, okay, cool.

[33:51] Most of the plants humans eat are technically grass.

[33:55] Most of the asphalt we drive on is almost a liquid.

[33:59] The formula of WD-40 is San Diego's greatest secret.

[34:04] Zippers were invented by a Swedish immigrant love story.

[34:08] On the podcast Secretly Incredibly Fascinating,

[34:11] we explore this type of amazing stuff.

[34:13] Stuff about ordinary topics like cabbage

[34:16] and batteries and socks.

[34:18] Topics you'd never expect to be the title of the podcast,

[34:21] Secretly Incredibly Fascinating.

[34:24] Find us by searching for the word secretly

[34:27] in your podcast app.

[34:29] And at MaximumFun.org.

[34:33] Hey, it's Dan popping in here with a word from our sponsors

[34:37] and some words from us.

[34:39] So please don't skip all of it or any of it.

[34:42] Who knows?

[34:44] Hey, we're sponsored in part this week by Factor.

[34:48] When the weather's been this hot,

[34:50] you know, you don't wanna do a lot of cooking,

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[35:21] to help you manage calories, maximize protein intake,

[35:25] avoid meat, or simply eat a well-balanced diet.

[35:31] I've talked about it before.

[35:33] I'm a fan of cooking.

[35:34] You may have seen one of the Slop House Twitch streams

[35:39] that I do with Stuart on occasion where I cook a meal.

[35:41] Stuart makes some cocktails.

[35:43] Love to cook, but I don't love to cook all the time,

[35:46] and I have a high standard for what I eat,

[35:50] so it was kind of surprising to me, honestly,

[35:53] that, like, I really like these Factor meals

[35:56] that I sampled, and they're really convenient

[36:00] for those times when you're just tired.

[36:02] You just don't wanna do it.

[36:03] So head over to factormeals.com slash learn50

[36:07] and use code learn50 to get 50% off your first box

[36:12] plus 20% off your next month.

[36:14] That's code learn50 at factormeals.com slash learn50

[36:20] to get 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next month

[36:25] while your subscription is active.

[36:28] And now the Flop House business.

[36:30] We've promoted Flop TV a lot, so I'll make it short.

[36:33] From September 2024, that is this year,

[36:36] to February 2025, that is early next,

[36:39] on the first Saturday of each month,

[36:41] we are going to be broadcasting live

[36:45] with a series of shows about bad movie sequels.

[36:48] These will be video streams, ticketed video streams.

[36:51] If you go to theflophouse.simpletics.com,

[36:55] you can get individual show tickets for $7 plus fees

[37:00] or $35 for the whole season,

[37:02] which is the equivalent of getting

[37:05] an extra episode for free.

[37:06] Well, not an extra episode, just one of the six episodes.

[37:10] And the shows will all stay up, available to watch,

[37:13] on demand until the end of February.

[37:15] So if you wanna catch up later in the run,

[37:17] you can get a season pass at any point

[37:20] during the Flop TV run and get access

[37:22] to everything you missed in the past.

[37:25] So again, more details and tickets are available

[37:27] at theflophouse.simpletics.com.

[37:30] And if you wanna know about stuff like this,

[37:32] but also our side projects,

[37:34] plus some silly extra writing that I throw in there

[37:37] and get that in your inbox a couple of times a month,

[37:41] why not hop over to flophousepodcast.com

[37:45] and put your email in the email box on the front page

[37:49] so you can get our newsletter, Flop Secrets.

[37:53] And also, on top of that, I have my own newsletter

[37:58] that I launched a little ways back now

[38:01] called Dan McCoy's Special Interests,

[38:05] named after the tendency for neurodivergent people

[38:07] to have interests that they hyper-focus on,

[38:10] a group I only learned I was a member of myself

[38:13] late in life.

[38:14] And over there, I write a couple of installments per month

[38:17] that are a combination of pop culture commentary,

[38:20] personal essay, and of course, humor.

[38:23] So if you're curious to read those,

[38:25] you can sign up for that over at danmccoyinterest.com.

[38:30] Now, let us get back to the show.

[38:34] And we're back with Christina Cacioppo, Nighthawk Programmer.

[38:38] I love, Dan, that you said,

[38:39] we'll be back and then we'll be back,

[38:41] as if the ads are not also done by us.

[38:44] Yeah, I mean, specifically, probably me.

[38:46] Yeah.

[38:47] But you know, I don't know.

[38:52] It's a good mention of the form.

[38:53] Maybe you'll do a silly voice.

[38:55] You'll play one of those characters,

[38:57] because you're a man who has a lot of different characters,

[38:59] little character voices, stuff like that.

[39:02] Dan, do one of your-

[39:03] Attentional voice acting casting directors.

[39:06] Dan, do one of your famous characters.

[39:09] Hey, it's me, the guy who talks like this.

[39:12] I don't really have another hook.

[39:14] It's just that I talk like this.

[39:16] I really talk about pretty normal things,

[39:18] like tax breaks that you can get,

[39:22] or, you know, city planning.

[39:25] I just got an email from DreamWorks Animation.

[39:29] Now, normally they only hire big name stars

[39:31] to play these roles,

[39:32] but I feel like they want to take a chance with you, Dan.

[39:34] Oh, wait, Stuart, you haven't responded yet.

[39:36] So they're texting me and they said

[39:37] they want to do at least a four-film franchise

[39:40] for guy who talks like this.

[39:44] Well, that's great.

[39:46] So, getting back-

[39:49] Dan very casually dismisses the offer of a lifetime.

[39:52] Yeah, yeah, Steve Carell will take it, I guess.

[39:55] I'll franchise it out, you know.

[39:57] My real passion is asking-

[40:00] questions here on the Flophouse and the next one is this one.

[40:03] Um, Christina, some people love Q and A's with filmmakers, but

[40:09] even though I've seen some great ones that I have enjoyed, I

[40:13] was kind of dread them because they are so dependent on the

[40:15] speakers being good and engaging in the audiences, not getting

[40:20] up and doing a lot of comments that are, uh, rather than

[40:23] questions. Uh, do you have tips for good Q and A's? Like, what

[40:27] do you think, uh, heads off those issues? Yeah. I mean, let

[40:30] me say that I agree with you. I, I tend to kind of be the

[40:34] person that's like running out before the Q and A. Like, I, I

[40:37] don't, I'm not usually, and it has to be just sort of like the

[40:40] most exciting thing, which recently one that I went to was

[40:44] the new Lee Daniels movie. Uh, Lee Daniels was in

[40:47] conversation with Bradley Cooper. So I feel like that sort

[40:50] of stunt moderators maybe, uh, is a tip. Um, yeah, I think for

[40:56] me, it's like, you know, the moderator should mostly let the,

[41:00] the, you know, director or cast do the talking. Like that's not

[41:04] how I do it. When a moderator is talking too much, it's, you

[41:08] know, it's kind of like, yeah, you don't want to hear from

[41:10] that person. You want to hear from, from the talents. Uh, and

[41:14] you know, if they're kind of stalling, cause sometimes you

[41:16] do get, you know, talent who maybe aren't necessarily like

[41:20] that psyched about it. I think it's just like making sure that

[41:24] you know the movie and you're not asking the most generic

[41:27] questions. You know, um, we do this shorts festival, uh, at

[41:32] Nighthawk and everybody wears shorts. Uh, yes. Everybody

[41:36] wears short shorts. Um, and you know, I, I've actually gotten

[41:40] complimented on my questioning because I think all these

[41:43] shorts filmmakers go to other festivals where like people are

[41:46] just kind of like, uh, tell us why you made this. And I

[41:50] actually try to sit down and write something like very

[41:52] tailored to each movie, you know, because like, otherwise

[41:56] it's just kind of like, you know, I mean, this Q and A,

[41:58] it'll be like, there's like 10 people and you have 20 minutes.

[42:02] So you're kind of going down the line and it has to be, you

[42:04] know, you know, pretty compact, but you know, people have

[42:08] complimented me that, that I, you know, I put a lot of thought

[42:10] into it and I think that's part of it too, is like, just, you

[42:13] know, you know, the questions you avoid, like don't ask about

[42:15] if it was improvised, don't ask about the budget, don't ask if,

[42:19] you know, if they'll read your script, especially if you're the

[42:23] moderator. Uh, and then, yeah, try to keep the audience

[42:27] questions to a minimum. Split from the script. Does this

[42:30] haircut work for my face? Yes. That would be a, I would be so

[42:38] There was a, uh, uh, this question reminds me of a, a

[42:41] thing that Stuart and I witnessed, which was not at, uh,

[42:44] one of Christina's venues, but, uh, this was at a, we went to

[42:47] see a, um, uh, when, uh, we went to see when, uh, Only God

[42:51] Forgives came out. It was, uh, Nicholas Wendingreifen and, uh.

[42:55] Premiere at BAM. And, uh, why am I forgetting the name? It was

[42:58] the whole cast. He's a huge star. And Ryan Gosling was up

[43:00] there. Yes. And Wendy Griffin and, uh, the only native, like

[43:04] the only native English speaker was Ryan Gosling. Yeah. And it

[43:07] was. And even the moderator, I think, was, uh, French maybe? I

[43:11] think so. And there was a, there was, there were two moments

[43:13] that always stuck with me and one was when, uh, a guy got up

[43:16] and he goes, you know, as a, as a young aspiring filmmaker

[43:20] myself, do you have any advice? And the audience has started

[43:23] booing him because they did not want to hear it. But then, but

[43:27] then Wendy Griffin had a really good answer to it. And then, uh,

[43:30] and then someone, someone goes, uh, someone said, I wanted to

[43:33] ask, uh, Ryan Gosling, is there any role that you would like to

[43:37] play that you haven't gotten to play yet? And he just goes,

[43:40] Freddy Krueger. And that was his whole answer. And the audience

[43:44] was like, people were like tearing their hair off their

[43:46] head. I mean, that guy, that guy's just bred to be an

[43:49] entertainer. Like he just, he just knows, he knows what he's

[43:52] doing. I don't have a lot of regrets in my life, but one of

[43:55] them is that I didn't wait in that long line to get my picture

[43:58] taken with Ryan Gosling. He was, he was, he was just famous

[44:02] enough that like it would have been cool to do it, but it

[44:05] wasn't impossible. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so it's my impression from,

[44:09] uh, talking with you that you, you rewatch the Prince before

[44:12] you, you screen them, uh, to, to, you know, check various

[44:16] things. Are you ever like, oh, I thought this was going to be

[44:20] good. Like I had an impression of like, like, oh, I liked this

[44:23] and now rewatching it. I, I'm not wild about screening this

[44:27] thing all the time. Really? I mean, I think it's more of like

[44:31] a self-doubt thing where I'm like, oh, it's not like, do I

[44:34] like this? It's like, oh, is the audience going to be into this?

[44:36] Like, am I crazy that this is good? You know? Um, and it'll

[44:41] just sort of be self-doubt and that's even in the room

[44:43] sometimes, you know, like, cause I do watch things in

[44:46] advance, maybe not necessarily the film print itself, but you

[44:49] know, cause I'll, I'll write the synopses or, you know, or

[44:53] something like that. So, but yeah, it's, it's, it's sometimes

[44:56] that, or then in the room where I'm kind of like, are people

[44:59] enjoying this? I can't tell, you know, I, I have to say that

[45:05] I was so, I forget the details of it, but when we screened, uh,

[45:10] the boyfriend school, AKA don't tell her it's me recently. Uh

[45:13] huh. Like, I don't know whether it's Stockholm syndrome, like

[45:17] affection over time, but like watching it with a crowd, like

[45:20] that movie played so well that I'm like, people were loving it.

[45:23] Maybe it's good actually. And there's a guy afterwards, uh,

[45:29] was he, he was from like Australia or something. Do you

[45:31] remember what I'm talking about? Like the guy with the

[45:34] mullet and like pink top and he was just going nuts for it.

[45:38] Lobo merengue was there. He seemed like, like that. It was

[45:42] definitely sort of like that, but yeah, he was, he was

[45:45] sitting in the room in front of me and he was loving it. Like

[45:48] he was losing his mind. And after he's like, you know, I

[45:50] just came here randomly, like on a date, but like that movie

[45:53] was really good and it was just like so deeply into it. And

[45:57] yeah, you're right. The crowd, cause I, I, I think that is

[46:00] one where I was like, huh. You know, especially comedy

[46:03] sometimes it's like, you just never know. And it really

[46:06] played so well. Yeah. It could have been like the four or five

[46:09] drinks I'd had, but man, that movie rocks. I had the

[46:12] opposite experience of that in a screening last year or the

[46:16] year before I was involved in a riff screening of the movie

[46:18] rotor, uh, the, uh, the RoboCop rip off. And I think that

[46:22] movie is hilarious. It's just the way it's made is so funny.

[46:26] And then watching it with a bunch of people and them all

[46:28] hating it and being so bored and me being like, but isn't it

[46:32] like, isn't it funny the way they did this? Like that this

[46:34] whole scene, you never hear what the characters are saying.

[46:37] It's just a montage of them eating a meal together with

[46:39] music over it. And they, I think so much of that Elliot

[46:42] honestly is people like us who have seen so many movies end up

[46:48] valuing like such weird things and movies just because it's

[46:52] like, of course, if you're a quote unquote normie, you're

[46:55] like, I just want a good movie that I'm going to enjoy and

[46:58] everyone can agree. It's good. And like, that's my movie that I

[47:01] saw this year and we're going to have fun because we're like,

[47:04] yeah, yeah. What weird textures in this thing. Yeah, I feel

[47:08] that too. And I think the new sort of element in the letterbox

[47:11] stage is that sometimes against my better judgment, I'll look to

[47:15] see if people review and, you know, like, and just to kind of

[47:18] see the reaction and, you know, sometimes people even review

[47:22] like my intros, which is upsetting, but I mean, I just

[47:27] can't help myself. Usually I just want to see what people

[47:29] have to say about people say mean **** about women on the

[47:32] internet. This is the first I'm hearing about this. Yeah, I

[47:37] recently discovered in letterbox that I could search our names

[47:40] within the reviews. That was when I sent you those things.

[47:43] They're all it was all nice stuff. It was just it was more

[47:47] like, oh, Papa sent me to here. This is good. You know, like

[47:50] I'm interested in this thing. Oh, here's another way for me to

[47:52] judge my worth online. Great. Yeah, I'm not going to make a

[47:56] habit of it as letterbox add a DM feature for you yet. No.

[48:02] Yeah, that's right. So this is a sort of a broader thing

[48:08] thoughts about curation in general because and here is

[48:11] where I'm going to make a question that's more of a

[48:14] comment for a long part of it, but we'll get around to a

[48:17] question. Cool, which is I sort of feel like the world was

[48:21] steering away from curation for a while because there are a

[48:25] couple of reasons one. It was often self-proclaimed experts

[48:30] who are curating these things that looked kind of like say

[48:32] the flop house like a bunch of names Dan McCoy being like this

[48:37] is a thing that's important and it could be sort of toxic

[48:41] gatekeeping is most in its worst form and to the emergence

[48:47] of the algorithm and the idea of like okay. Well, like

[48:52] computers will figure out what I want and deliver it to me,

[48:55] but I feel like there's sort of a more of a resurgence of

[48:59] curation and people appreciating that human beings

[49:03] have all this knowledge and will sort of serve you a thing

[49:06] that they find interesting. I don't know. I'm I guess the

[49:11] question, which is not much one is like do you agree with that

[49:15] sort of that sort of road we've taken or not and like what are

[49:19] your thoughts about curation as a thing? I mean in at the

[49:23] theater, it's necessary. You know when you have a streaming

[49:26] service and just sort of like a library and like maybe the

[49:31] algorithm is a thing, but you know I've never found that any

[49:34] algorithms on any streaming service like deliver me save

[49:37] for maybe to be, which is obviously the exception to

[49:40] everything. Yeah, but yeah, you know curation I think is

[49:44] important and especially in you know if we didn't have that for

[49:48] movie theaters, you know you would just end up showing it.

[49:50] You know it's like studios will send you like a list of their

[49:53] DCPS and like and it'll be like here's a combo drive that has

[49:56] like or a scum and you know, I mean I'm bringing that up.

[50:00] That's like a DVD, like three pack that you'd get at the gas station.

[50:03] You're like, OK, I guess I'll watch.

[50:05] I mean, this sort of happened, actually, like, you know, movie theaters

[50:08] closed for a covid lockdown.

[50:10] And when they opened, you were able to rent a theater

[50:14] like for a private party.

[50:15] But it was like you could choose from these ten movies and like

[50:17] Forrest Gump was one of them.

[50:20] So, yeah, I feel like when it comes, you know, and that's the idea

[50:23] is that you want people who are diverse.

[50:25] And so, you know, when I've done screenings like, you know,

[50:29] I'm one person of one type, but, you know, I also invite other people

[50:33] to pick movies because maybe they'll pick something that's outside of my wheelhouse

[50:37] because of their different background.

[50:39] And I think that's kind of an important part of it, too, is to make sure that

[50:43] if there's you know, if if you sort of have your your lane

[50:47] to bring other people in who maybe have like a more expansive knowledge

[50:50] or a more particular thing that you maybe like aren't haven't,

[50:54] you know, you've overlooked for whatever reason. Yeah.

[50:58] Um, one thing I wanted to ask was,

[51:01] knowing that you are so committed to as much as you can showing movies on film,

[51:07] although you were saying, I think, before earlier, before we were on,

[51:11] we were recording that you're loosening up on that.

[51:13] But because of that, like, are there any sort of white whales of movies

[51:17] that you've wanted to screen and have never been able to because you're like,

[51:21] there's no way to get a print of this thing?

[51:23] There are, you know, I think the clown cried.

[51:27] That kind of changes over the years, you know,

[51:29] because there have been things that I've found.

[51:32] There's also been things that I used to be available and aren't anymore.

[51:35] And that gets super frustrating to that.

[51:37] There was like a time that I was able to show something like Heavenly Creatures,

[51:40] like is is now there's not a film print of that. Really?

[51:44] Yeah. Is that because it's unavailable or they've just deteriorated

[51:48] and they haven't struck?

[51:49] So there is kind of like libraries change hands sometimes when they're not,

[51:53] you know, if it's not just Universal or Warner Brothers,

[51:56] like there are these libraries like Miramax and things like that

[51:58] where the libraries kind of move.

[52:00] And like, I don't think that they account for the inventory

[52:03] or the new distributor just doesn't care enough to like look into it.

[52:07] So it's a number of things, you know, or or the prints get damaged

[52:12] and or go missing or something like that.

[52:15] The movies that I've sort of been.

[52:18] Like for the for a long time, the one that I've been after

[52:21] is this French movie called Don't Deliver Us from Evil from 1971.

[52:25] That's like this like evil teenage girl type of movie.

[52:29] The sounds a lot like Heavenly Creatures.

[52:31] It's kind of based on the same true story.

[52:34] Oh, wow.

[52:36] But yeah, I mean, I'm talking about my lane in my wheelhouse.

[52:39] It is like specifically teenage girls who kill people type of movies.

[52:45] But yeah, I think I once tracked down a print that was maybe in France,

[52:48] but like it was it was a bad print and, you know,

[52:51] it would be expensive to ship overseas.

[52:54] There's this movie called Thief of Hearts, which isn't the best movie,

[52:57] but it's star Steven Bauer.

[52:59] If you know who that is, he's that that's his like stage name.

[53:03] He's he's the Cuban from Scarface, like the cousin character or whatever,

[53:08] like super hand.

[53:09] So this is like a 1980s movie where, you know, it's

[53:12] it's just sort of an erotic thriller of sorts.

[53:16] And then it's kind of topical.

[53:18] But, you know, I'm doing a series with the director, John McNaughton,

[53:21] who did Henry Portrait of a Serial Killer and Wild Things.

[53:24] And he did this movie called The Borrower.

[53:27] What a career.

[53:28] Just those two alone.

[53:29] Yes, exactly.

[53:31] And I mean, the reason I'm doing it is because he has this other

[53:33] this body of work that is kind of been overlooked and including

[53:37] this movie called The Borrower, which is sort of a sci fi movie

[53:40] he did in the early 90s.

[53:41] And, you know, when I first talked to him, he was like,

[53:44] if you could find a film print of this, because, you know, basically

[53:48] it had a little life at the Music Box in Chicago,

[53:51] because that's where he's from.

[53:53] And he told me that, you know, when they were done with it,

[53:55] they were like, we have this film print.

[53:57] Do you want it?

[53:58] And he's like, I didn't feel like it was mine.

[53:59] So I said no.

[54:00] And now there's no film print. Yeah.

[54:03] So so he was like, if you could find it.

[54:06] And I tried, actually.

[54:08] And the only thing I could find was the Library of Congress.

[54:10] Ray Dawn Chong in it.

[54:11] Yeah, it's a great cast, Antonio Vargas.

[54:15] There's a there's a copyright print at the Library of Congress.

[54:18] But that's like unloanable, you know.

[54:21] And then, you know, there's a lot of other stuff like, you know, lately.

[54:24] I mean, maybe forever.

[54:26] But, you know, I get really deep into these like direct to video action movies

[54:30] that I believe have film prints.

[54:32] So there's like this director, Joseph Merhi, who had PM Entertainment

[54:35] was his, you know, his his production company.

[54:39] And it's all just like a lot of cheap, like L.A.

[54:41] action movies.

[54:42] And I'm like, I know that there's there are film prints of this somewhere.

[54:46] I feel like I know that name.

[54:47] Like what are some of the.

[54:50] I'm trying to think of like what would be the thing that you would know,

[54:53] because it was some it was actually like a very recent discovery for me

[54:56] where I was like, how did I not know about this guy?

[54:59] A lot of these are on M.E.R.H.I.

[55:03] Yeah. Yeah.

[55:04] Spartan is a good one.

[55:07] A lot of them.

[55:07] There's a there's a bunch that star

[55:10] Wings Hauser, the sweeper.

[55:13] I recommended Last Man Standing, the non Arthur Hiller

[55:18] last night or Walter Walter Hill.

[55:21] Yeah. Either way.

[55:22] The yeah, I recommend that because don't die on the hill, Dan.

[55:26] Tom screened that in person

[55:30] for friends and it was a flop as Tom Sylvester.

[55:33] Yeah, he it was so much fun.

[55:35] Yeah, there's a lot like the sweeper you should watch that has

[55:39] see Thomas Howell and like Jeff Fahey, Jeff Fahey.

[55:43] But I just have, you know, I'm like body parts, Jeff Fahey.

[55:46] And even, you know, Doppelganger and other movies by that director,

[55:49] Avi Nesher, like this one bomb, like things that it's not like

[55:52] they were like in wide circuit on 35 millimeter.

[55:55] But I'm like, you know, I know there is.

[55:57] I know they're out there somewhere.

[55:59] Well, that's the amazing thing about about film prints is like

[56:02] and I'm sure this is something you come up with, come up against or

[56:06] or maybe it's beneficial a lot in this kind of programming is like film prints

[56:11] like they seem to have this mercurial existence where they are either

[56:14] disappeared and deteriorating or they're turning up in places

[56:17] that you wouldn't expect.

[56:19] And so like I feel like there was this period where every five years

[56:22] they suddenly found a new print of Metropolis

[56:24] that had more footage in it than was available before.

[56:26] And I was just listening to a thing not too long about how there are these film

[56:30] archives in Eastern Europe that have original release,

[56:33] potentially versions of the Marx Brothers movies with stuff

[56:36] that was cut out from the prints for re-releases and we don't have anymore.

[56:39] And it's just there's all these prints floating around around the world

[56:42] everywhere, and there's just no systemized way to handle them.

[56:45] And there's no money for someone to go and actually look at everything.

[56:48] And so it's there's constant discoveries.

[56:51] You know, I think that like one thing that I was chasing for a long time

[56:54] was the movie Trancers, the Charles Band movie.

[56:57] Oh, yeah.

[56:57] And it took somebody at full moon caring enough to look to find it.

[57:02] And so this you know, this one guy just finally cared

[57:07] and he found the print and, you know, I was able to show it.

[57:10] And that's another one that I think now you maybe can't really get to.

[57:15] Yeah, I mean, there's it's like that, you know, and even like people are always

[57:19] like every once in a while someone's like, I want to do a Bollywood series.

[57:23] And I'm like, there's just there's like no

[57:26] there's no repertory for Bollywood like those movies that just get cranked out.

[57:30] And then like, you know, there has to be it's like, did they really destroy?

[57:34] You imagine all the film prints that existed, like, where did they go?

[57:38] Are they just landfill?

[57:39] You know, it's amazing how much of this stuff that is objectively

[57:44] has has a financial value to it just either got thrown away or mislabeled

[57:48] or Michelle just not taken care of and not organized.

[57:50] It's just really as and maybe it's just because I come from a long line

[57:53] of librarians, but the idea that like a company makes a thing

[57:57] and they're just like, throw it in the throw it in the room and nobody

[58:00] it's in cans that are not labeled and things like that.

[58:02] And it's just crazy to me.

[58:03] Or like just be like, let's delete it.

[58:06] Let's tape over it.

[58:08] No one cares.

[58:09] Yeah, that's that's the BBC way of doing things is you're like,

[58:11] it's expensive to buy videotape.

[58:13] Let's let's tape over Dudley Moore and Peter Cook's television show.

[58:17] No one will ever want to watch it again.

[58:18] You know, that kind of thing.

[58:19] Yeah, well, before we finish,

[58:23] I'd like to highlight Ridiculous Sublime, a series we've mentioned a lot

[58:26] in the Flophouse, because Stuart and I have gone to multiple installments

[58:30] either together or not.

[58:33] Sometimes eating hot dogs, guaranteed entertainment right there.

[58:36] Guaranteed entertainment.

[58:38] These are these are movies that aren't they aren't, quote, unquote, bad.

[58:41] But I do think that they're kind of what people who listen to the Flophouse

[58:45] like bad movie nuts really want to see a lot of the time is is movies

[58:49] where what is good about them, what genuinely works

[58:52] is sort of inexorably tied to also what is maybe silly about them.

[58:58] And they wouldn't be better if they were like better.

[59:02] You know, so they walk.

[59:05] Yeah, they walk this line.

[59:06] And what do you look for when you're programming that?

[59:08] Like, what is your sort of criteria for that?

[59:12] I think that, you know, if I've watched something

[59:16] and haven't seen it with an audience, like there's sometimes when I'll watch

[59:20] or rewatch a movie and be like, I want to see this with the crowd, you know,

[59:23] and or just for me, you know, my personal enjoyment is just like

[59:27] when there's something that makes my jaw drop, because it's just like

[59:31] it's just something I've never seen before.

[59:33] Or, you know, like when I finally watched Dreamcatcher,

[59:36] like there's so much in that movie that I was just like, like, whose idea was this?

[59:41] Yeah, Stephen King and cocaine.

[59:44] Just knowing that somebody like made their own rules or like

[59:47] just like didn't care about like what the sort of status quo was that

[59:51] that's usually what does it for me.

[59:53] It's just it's like I don't think about it as being good or bad.

[59:55] I'm just like somebody somebody took a swing here and I'm glad they did.

[59:59] And.

[1:00:00] might not make any sense and it maybe didn't make any money and it maybe like

[1:00:03] lost people jobs but you know what would have been some of the ridiculous sublime

[1:00:08] movies so like the ambulance we saw yeah that was a fucking banger saw that we

[1:00:13] saw prison prison yep was the manitou part of that yes oh hell yeah it better

[1:00:18] be show the manitou you better put it in the ridiculous of lives is that the one

[1:00:21] you described as being the worst print you've ever shown yeah cuz I've shied

[1:00:25] away from showing like seven stuff from the 70s because you know the usual rule

[1:00:31] is that it was like anything from 82 or before it's probably faded just for

[1:00:35] the based on the film stock that they use yeah I mean I started this series

[1:00:40] you know by now it was like over two years ago with action Jackson and I

[1:00:45] think for me part of this was you know the idea for the series is that I wanted

[1:00:51] to encompass action movies which are some of my favorite things and you know

[1:00:55] any other type of thing that could fit into that I wanted there to be sort of a

[1:00:58] broad you know like I didn't want to narrow it down to just action movies I

[1:01:02] had also you know been doing this erotic thriller series and that felt sort of

[1:01:06] too narrow so yeah it started with action Jackson which is you know it's

[1:01:10] just like a ton of fun like just like completely over-the-top just like you

[1:01:15] know total nonsense like crazy stunts all that you know it's one of the few

[1:01:21] movies that feels like it lives up to the ridiculousness of its title yeah in

[1:01:25] that kind where they clearly that the title seems to have come first before

[1:01:28] anything else and they're like how do we earn the name action Jackson yes that

[1:01:33] erotic thriller series was great I have to I and it sort of you were sort of

[1:01:38] right in tune with the pulse because I feel like you're programming and there

[1:01:43] was well but then there's like this sort of cultural like like reassessment and

[1:01:49] like enjoyment of the erotic thriller like like hey like people discovered it

[1:01:53] again we were like wait there can be sex in movies what I don't think so but

[1:01:58] there's that one with Banderas and that one is so yeah yeah you know that could

[1:02:07] have been in ridiculous to sublime as well you know yeah I missed doing that

[1:02:12] series I you know it didn't get as much of an audience as I would have liked you

[1:02:16] know like there some obviously did better than others and I did really

[1:02:20] enjoy you know I would do this bingo game that was just sort of like you know

[1:02:23] erotic filler tropes or whatever but yeah I I ridiculous to sublime kind of

[1:02:30] fit more you know just was a better umbrella and you know I was glad to also

[1:02:34] fit more comedies like doing the boyfriend school as part of that you know

[1:02:40] it just it just works you know as we close out I don't know how far ahead you

[1:02:45] can say but like what's up for ridiculous sublime in the future I've

[1:02:50] got poltergeist 3 coming up the Jean-Claude Van Damme hockey movie

[1:02:55] sudden death baby and you know actually my first experiment and doing something

[1:03:03] just kind of digitally turbulence are you guys familiar with the Ray Liotta

[1:03:08] yeah yeah it's a Christmas movie everybody so I'm trying to do that in

[1:03:14] December and yeah if you haven't seen it it's you know it might not be as good

[1:03:20] as turbulence 3 heavy metal but it's one of those movies that you know was you

[1:03:27] know was mildly successful but then went on to spawn a bunch of direct-to-video

[1:03:33] sequels yeah turbulence 3 is a lot of fun too yeah

[1:03:38] turbulence 3 is a lot of fun too I'm confused and this well we'll explain off

[1:03:44] Mike we should we should we should close up because we've we've talked

[1:03:49] Christina's ear off she was nice enough to come to my apartment and sit between

[1:03:54] Stuart and I in this hot room truly an incredible cost to have yeah to get her

[1:04:01] message out yeah well I mean she also lives in the neighborhood wow don't dox

[1:04:07] her Dan what are you doing people don't know where I am I hope anyway I would

[1:04:13] like to thank Christina so much for being here this was really interesting

[1:04:16] I would like to thank our producer Alex Alex Smith Howell Dottie is the name he

[1:04:23] goes by on the internet I'm wearing one of his shirts right now but it's blocked

[1:04:27] by it's blocked by the microphone so they won't describe the garment so it's

[1:04:37] perfectly does little videos for us so what kind of cotton blend is it it's a

[1:04:43] pretty heavy shirt actually as t-shirts go but if you like that I'll be able to

[1:04:47] bulkier style that you know I would recommend it the designs great um anyway

[1:04:51] so Alex thank you for being our producer thank you for making shirts yeah thank

[1:04:58] you for being a friend yeah as long as we're thanking people before Christina

[1:05:02] goes I want to say Christina thank you so much for the work you've been doing

[1:05:05] for years now showing movies to people that they wouldn't have otherwise seen

[1:05:09] they might not have heard of they might not have known existed and I know that

[1:05:12] for one of the things I regret about not living in New York anymore is that I

[1:05:16] don't have access to the stuff that you're showing because there's over the

[1:05:20] years there were so many things that I saw because you programmed it that

[1:05:22] really meant a lot to me and that opened my eyes a lot and it's just I think

[1:05:27] you're you're doing something that you enjoy doing but what you're also doing

[1:05:32] is it's just great it's just it's it's spreading kind of new things to people

[1:05:36] and inspiring them in ways that I don't know if you are fully aware of so thank

[1:05:40] you for doing that no I appreciate it thank you Elliot and you know I also

[1:05:44] miss having you around to host stuff so you know you gotta you gotta come back

[1:05:47] sometime maybe someday I'll come back and I'll be like here I am

[1:05:52] and now you're gonna watch scanners you know Wow maybe scanners three heck yeah

[1:06:01] well thank you all for listening we'll close up this mini for the flop house

[1:06:07] I've been Dan McCoy I've been Stuart Wellington I have been Elliot Kaelin now

[1:06:12] sinking into the earth rather than floating into the air and our special

[1:06:17] guest has been Christina Kachofo. Thank you. Bye!

[1:06:28] Maximum Fun a worker-owned network of artists owned shows supported directly

[1:06:34] by you

FH Mini #111 - Film Programming, with Cristina Cacioppo

Transcript

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