FH Mini 116 – The Definitive Action Hero Ranking Pt. 1

Elliott Kalan

[0:00] Hi, Floppers. Before we start this episode, I just wanted to remind you we are in the middle of FlopTV Season 2.

[0:06] That's right, the one-hour internet televised Flophouse TV show is here for you the first Saturday of every month through February.

[0:14] Just go to theflophouse.simpleticks.com and get your tickets or season pass for this all-new Flophouse TV stuff.

[0:22] We're covering movies we've never covered before. We've got video segments. It's amazing.

[0:27] Just go to theflophouse.simpleticks.com for FlopTV Season 2. This time, it's personal.

Stuart Wellington

[0:37] Hey, this is a Flophouse Mini. My name is Stuart Wellington. I'm one of the hosts of the Flophouse Podcast, and I'm joined by my two co-hosts.

[0:45] They are...

[0:46] Dan McCoy.

[0:46] And...

[0:47] Elliot Kalin.

[0:48] Hey, thanks so much for joining me, guys.

[0:50] Now...

[0:50] You're welcome.

[0:51] Here at the Flophouse Podcast, we normally watch a bad movie and talk about it, but on the off weeks for a Flophouse Mini,

[0:56] we kind of do whatever we want. We do silly games. We goof around. We have a lot of laughs.

[1:00] This week...

[1:01] So many laughs.

[1:02] We're deadly serious this week.

[1:04] Oh, no.

[1:04] Now, I do have to preface this with the fact that I wrote this mini and the sequel to this mini

[1:10] before the results of the 2024 election.

[1:15] Yeah.

[1:16] So...

[1:16] Well, what happened?

[1:17] And we're recording it afterwards.

[1:20] I'm going to let people do their own research into that. That's what Dan told me to do.

[1:23] No.

Elliott Kalan

[1:24] I think something tells me for the next four years, we're all going to be doing our own research

[1:27] for a lot of things.

Stuart Wellington

[1:28] Yeah.

[1:29] So, that may...

[1:31] So, I wrote this before, but we're recording it after.

[1:34] So, that may color some of the content.

[1:36] Interesting.

[1:37] Okay.

[1:38] Let's find out.

[1:38] So, as I said...

Elliott Kalan

[1:40] Like a blast from a more innocent time.

Stuart Wellington

[1:42] Uh-huh.

[1:42] Yeah.

[1:42] So, as I said, this is a deadly serious episode of the podcast.

[1:46] Deadly is important because what we are talking is we are doing the Flophouse official rankings

[1:51] of the best action heroes in cinema history.

[1:56] Okay?

[1:57] Now, in order to qualify, just to be in the running, these are out of the top 20, you need

[2:02] to be a character that has been in multiple movies with one specific exception that is

[2:09] Flophouse related, and I think it's important.

[2:11] Okay.

[2:11] Interesting.

[2:11] And no character can be represented more than once.

[2:15] Or no actor can be represented more than once on this list.

[2:18] There is one, like, kind of edge case that you can argue, but we don't have to get into

Elliott Kalan

[2:23] So, both the transporter and Hobbes can't be on the list?

Stuart Wellington

[2:27] That's the one specific thing is that we'll get to it.

[2:31] Okay.

[2:31] That's a good...

[2:32] Okay.

[2:32] Elliot read my brain.

[2:34] Wow.

[2:34] But Elliot scooped out my gray matter and ate it and then knew what I was thinking.

[2:39] Nibbled it on up.

Dan McCoy

[2:40] Yeah.

[2:40] To clarify, though, a character, a character could be played by different actors.

[2:45] Yes.

[2:45] But different actors cannot be represented more than once other than this mystery case.

Stuart Wellington

[2:50] Except for one edge.

[2:52] Well, Elliot nailed it.

[2:53] The one edge case is that Jason Statham could theoretically be considered to be in this list

[2:59] twice.

[2:59] Theoretically, okay.

[3:01] Theoretically.

[3:01] The scientists say.

[3:02] It's been hypothesized.

[3:04] As I said, there are 20 on here.

[3:07] That's a lot.

[3:08] Let's get...

[3:08] So, we're going to have to split this mini into two.

[3:10] Otherwise, this would be a maxi.

[3:12] We're just doing a mini.

[3:13] It's its own franchise.

[3:14] Yep.

[3:15] So, we're just going to...

[3:16] This is just a mini.

[3:16] Okay.

[3:17] So, we're going to split into two with the official rankings at the end.

Elliott Kalan

[3:19] Steven Seagal is the maxi.

Stuart Wellington

[3:22] So, there are going to be some...

[3:24] So, this list of 20 was compiled by me, Stuart Wellington, movie expert.

[3:28] Okay?

[3:29] If somebody is not included in here, it is either my choice or if it's something that actually

[3:35] upsets you, it was Dan's choice.

[3:39] I'll just take it.

[3:40] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[3:40] Once again, Elliot comes out smelling like a rose.

Stuart Wellington

[3:44] So, we are going to do the first 10 and then next mini, we're going to do the second

[3:48] 10 and then there's going to be a final resolution.

[3:50] Now, eagle-eared listeners will say, hey...

[3:54] Eagles are known for their ears?

[3:55] Mm-hmm.

[3:55] They are.

[3:57] They're going to...

[3:57] You're going to...

[3:58] These eagle-eared listeners will be like, hey, this sounds a lot like the top 20 horror

[4:03] villains of all time list that you did before.

[4:05] It is similar, except there is going to be one specific difference, which is I am not putting

[4:10] in my rankings.

[4:11] I've already written my rankings down on a secret ballot.

[4:14] Okay?

[4:16] So, we won't know the final tally until the very end of the second episode.

Dan McCoy

[4:21] Seems like subverting democracy is a trend these days.

[4:24] That's me.

Stuart Wellington

[4:26] It's mainly to keep our listeners in suspense.

[4:28] Yeah.

[4:29] Okay.

[4:30] So, again, after we determine the hero or heroine or heroes in question, we will then

[4:38] judge them on three categories.

[4:42] Radness.

[4:43] How cool they are.

[4:44] How fun they are.

[4:45] How their clothes look.

[4:47] You know, if they have quippy one-liners, whatever.

[4:49] Mm-hmm.

[4:49] Attitude, baditude, you know.

[4:51] Second is badness.

[4:52] That's how tough they are, what their body count is, how effective they are at being an

[4:57] action hero.

Dan McCoy

[4:58] Yeah, but it doesn't contain baditude, which is part of radness.

[5:01] Which is part of radness.

Stuart Wellington

[5:02] Thank you.

[5:03] Yeah, that's a very important, thank you for asking that important question.

[5:06] Then the final third category, of course, lucky dip.

[5:10] That's where we randomly roll and the game gets a little bit crazy.

[5:15] Eagle-eared listeners will remember in the horror movie villains one, it led to some kind

[5:21] of interesting results.

[5:24] It really sank the xenomorph.

[5:25] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[5:26] Xenomorph seemed to be headed for number one until that lucky dip turned into an unlucky

[5:29] slip for the alien.

Stuart Wellington

[5:31] Thank you.

[5:31] I was looking at the Flophouse subreddit and some listeners were very upset about the

[5:36] results there.

[5:37] I think one z-onomorph was very unhappy.

Elliott Kalan

[5:42] People on Reddit were upset?

[5:44] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[5:45] Don't worry, Dan.

Elliott Kalan

[5:46] They're going to be a lot happier from now on.

[5:48] Dan.

[5:48] Just kidding.

[5:49] They're never happy.

Stuart Wellington

[5:50] Since Dan is our maniacal game master, he's going to be rolling the 20-sided die for

[5:54] these results.

[5:55] I'm going to pass you the 20-sided die.

[5:57] I'm very excited.

[5:57] I have a job.

[5:58] Okay, so you have a job, Dan.

[6:00] So let's pick our first hero.

[6:03] That's an eight.

[6:04] Okay, this one's classic.

[6:06] Okay, we got Jason Bourne.

[6:09] You might know him from the movies The Bourne Identity and Supremacy.

[6:14] And The Ultimatum, right?

Elliott Kalan

[6:16] The Bourne Ultimatum.

[6:17] And Ultimatum.

[6:17] But not The Bourne Legacy?

[6:19] That was a different guy, right?

[6:20] Or was it not called Legacy?

[6:21] It's a different actor.

[6:22] Is that still Jason Bourne?

Dan McCoy

[6:23] No, no, no.

[6:24] Legacy is a different character, a different actor.

Elliott Kalan

[6:26] It's like a different character who was in the same program or something like that?

[6:29] Yes.

Dan McCoy

[6:29] Yeah, that would make sense.

Elliott Kalan

[6:31] Okay.

[6:31] So it should have been called The Bourne Classmate.

Stuart Wellington

[6:34] Yeah.

[6:34] Okay, so speaking of The Bourne Classmate, we're talking about Jason Bourne here.

[6:39] This, like, the Bourne Identity kind of, like, changed the look of action movies for a while.

[6:45] Yeah.

[6:45] Big budget action movies.

[6:47] So where do we rank old Jason Bourne in radness?

Dan McCoy

[6:54] Here's the thing.

[6:54] He has a certain amount of, for me, he has a certain amount of radness by being, you know, a man of mystery, a man of, like, you know, few, like, contained action.

[7:05] But every action is important.

[7:07] But, like, he's mostly not, like, you know, a cool action hero.

[7:13] His deal is, like, he is trying to figure out what his deal is, you know?

[7:18] And so.

[7:19] Aren't we all?

Elliott Kalan

[7:20] Yeah.

[7:21] That's the thing.

Stuart Wellington

[7:22] So I think I'm gonna.

[7:23] Ick Benine Bourne Leonard.

[7:25] Yeah.

[7:26] Well, Alex edited that out.

[7:27] It was too funny.

Dan McCoy

[7:28] As much as I like three out of four of the Bourne, Jason Bourne movies, I will give him only a three in this particular category.

Stuart Wellington

[7:38] Okay.

[7:39] We got a three from Dan.

Elliott Kalan

[7:40] Where's he ranking for you, Elliot?

[7:43] I was actually, I thought I was gonna be the harsh one.

[7:45] I was gonna give him a four for a similar reason that I feel like he is, he is, he is, it's a cool premise for a movie, but he as a character is not a cool character.

[7:54] I don't think people fantasize about having, being, not knowing your past and being chased for no reason that you can fully understand.

[8:02] People fantasize about discovering that they're actually killing machines, but.

[8:05] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[8:05] I mean, I kind of fantasize about not having regrets or anything.

[8:10] No, but he's full of regrets.

Elliott Kalan

[8:11] He's not, he's a very unhappy character.

[8:13] Yeah.

[8:14] And whereas, I feel like John Wick, who I'm sure we'll be talking about at some point, is unhappy, but in a romantic, almost like, you know, German romanticism way.

[8:22] I feel like Jason Bourne is unhappy in a, like, too real, too real unhappy way.

[8:27] So, I'm gonna give him a four, actually.

[8:28] Okay.

[8:29] So, that's.

[8:29] Because he can kill someone with a, I mean, I guess this goes into badness, though.

[8:32] He can hurt someone with a rolled up magazine, you know, so.

[8:34] I forgot about that.

Stuart Wellington

[8:36] Yeah.

[8:37] Was that someone, a spider or maybe a.

[8:40] Yeah, it was.

[8:41] I mean, we all had that power.

[8:42] I mean, we can all, we can all hurt, yeah.

[8:43] Spider with a rolled up magazine.

[8:44] It was a puppy dog's nose after it had gone on the carpet.

[8:48] Yeah.

[8:49] Okay.

[8:49] Speaking of that, let's talk about badness.

[8:51] How, how much of a killer is this guy?

[8:53] How, how bad is this dude?

Dan McCoy

[8:55] Yeah, I'm gonna, he is a bad dude.

[8:57] I'm gonna, this is where he is gonna excel because he, you know, he has so many skills that he doesn't even know how many skills he has.

[9:06] He does not even a particular set of skills.

Elliott Kalan

[9:08] He might have all the skills.

[9:09] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[9:10] I'm gonna give him a nine in this.

[9:12] I'm gonna, I'm gonna go high.

[9:13] Oh, okay.

[9:13] That's a big score.

Elliott Kalan

[9:14] I'm gonna, I'm gonna do the same.

[9:16] I'm also gonna give him a nine for that same reason that he is unstoppable.

[9:19] You know, he's just a, his, his body count is not enormous, but it's the fact that his, but his ratio, his, his hitting average is very high.

[9:28] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[9:28] He's an action shark.

[9:30] He never stops.

[9:31] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[9:31] And not a lot of, not a lot of collateral damage.

[9:33] No, that's true.

[9:34] That's a good point.

[9:35] A lot of these guys, they are blowing up buildings.

[9:38] There's a lot of bystanders get hurt.

[9:39] No, he is targeted.

[9:40] So, uh, if anything, he's the most, uh, uh, community minded of, of the action heroes, maybe.

[9:46] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[9:47] Yeah.

[9:47] I mean, he's, uh, yeah, he's an efficient killing machine.

[9:50] In a way, like, uh, a big part of his, his like radness comes from the way other people talk about it.

[9:56] Yes.

[9:57] Oh, fuck this dude.

[9:58] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[9:59] Uh, okay.

[9:59] It reminds me of, sorry, just to slow down for a second unnecessarily.

[10:03] It reminds me of a story that Orson Welles tells in the book, This Is Orson Welles, where he talks about this, this play called like Mr. Wong or Mr. Wu or something like that.

[10:10] And he goes, it's the greatest part you can have.

[10:12] Because the whole first act, everyone's just going, so have you heard about this character?

[10:15] Have you heard about this mysterious gentleman?

[10:17] Where do you think he is right now?

[10:18] And at the end, they say, Mr. Wu is arriving.

[10:21] And there's a big entrance with, you know, like lots of, uh, lots of drama.

[10:24] And the actor walks in, curtain, first act over.

[10:28] And he says, it's the greatest role.

[10:29] Because you get huge applause for doing nothing in the first act.

Stuart Wellington

[10:33] It's like Fortinbras, right guys?

Elliott Kalan

[10:35] Yeah.

[10:36] Yeah.

[10:36] Fortinbras is just like that.

[10:37] When he shows up, the audience goes nuts because they've been hearing about him all play.

[10:41] This guy.

[10:42] Oh shit, he's here?

Stuart Wellington

[10:45] Dan, uh, somebody wake up.

[10:47] Oh.

Dan McCoy

[10:48] I mean, I have to say, I played, so in college, I played Picasso in the play Picasso at La Panagile,

[10:55] which is a 90 minute play.

Elliott Kalan

[10:57] Similarly great, great role for the same reason.

Dan McCoy

[10:58] Yeah.

[10:58] He, yeah, comes in about like a third of the way through maybe.

[11:01] And prior to that, everyone's talking about like what a real cool fuck machine this Picasso is.

[11:06] And it made me feel like I was never going to be able to pull this off when I made the entrance.

Elliott Kalan

[11:12] No, you did it.

[11:13] You did it.

[11:13] I'm sure.

[11:14] If only you got to play Elvis in that play.

[11:15] Elvis is the real plum role because he's barely in it.

[11:18] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[11:19] So Dan, why don't you roll for our lucky dip category?

[11:22] Sure.

[11:22] This might make or break old JCB.

[11:25] It's a 17.

[11:27] Okay.

[11:29] This man.

[11:30] Oh, this is a fucking good role for him.

[11:32] How likely on a scale of one to 10 is Jason Bourne going to win gold in an Olympic category?

[11:39] Oh, that's a 10, right?

[11:41] It's gotta be a 10.

[11:41] Yeah, that's a 10.

[11:42] Especially if it's like biathlon or something.

[11:44] He nailed it.

[11:44] Even fucking, I bet if he fucking did break dancing, he would kill it.

[11:49] For sure.

[11:50] I didn't even know I could do this.

[11:51] Yeah, yeah.

[11:51] Like put on like a fucking Apex Twin song or whatever.

[11:54] What was the fucking music?

[11:55] Yeah, that's what they mostly break dancing.

[11:57] The fucking Chemical Brothers or some shit?

[11:58] Who's making all the music for those movies?

[12:00] Apex Twin.

[12:01] Just like.

[12:05] Alex, throw in some Apex Twin sounds.

Dan McCoy

[12:08] But not so much that we have to pay for it.

[12:10] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[12:10] No, no, please don't.

Elliott Kalan

[12:12] Okay, yeah.

[12:13] I think.

[12:13] All the break dancers throwing on Depeche Mode and stuff like that.

[12:16] Just going nuts to it.

[12:18] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[12:19] I mean.

[12:20] Okay, so 10s across the board.

[12:21] Man, he crushed it.

[12:22] Ugh.

[12:23] Okay.

[12:23] I mean.

[12:23] JCB, not bad.

Elliott Kalan

[12:25] He's going to be way higher in the rankings than I would actually put him if you asked me

[12:28] to rank my favorite action heroes.

[12:30] Okay.

[12:30] Well.

[12:30] That's fine.

Stuart Wellington

[12:31] Maybe.

[12:32] More than anything.

[12:34] I mean, obviously this is a deadly series.

[12:35] We need to come up with a firm ranking.

[12:38] Yes.

[12:38] But it's really like.

[12:39] It's kind of here to make you question and think about things.

[12:42] Yeah.

[12:42] Think about cinema.

[12:44] The process.

[12:44] Take on a journey.

[12:45] It's an award.

[12:45] Why don't you roll us our next action hero?

Dan McCoy

[12:48] Or.

[12:49] Oh, that's another eight.

[12:51] So I'm going to.

[12:51] That's fine.

[12:52] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[12:52] I will go up to the next one.

[12:53] Okay.

[12:54] Guys.

[12:55] Mr. Indiana Jones.

[12:58] Oh, man.

[12:58] Wow.

[12:58] Indiana Jones.

Dan McCoy

[13:00] My guy.

[13:01] He's a guy.

[13:03] Oh, boy.

[13:03] He is that.

[13:04] Oh, boy.

[13:05] Is he ever a man?

Stuart Wellington

[13:06] Yep.

[13:06] You might know him from such movies as Raiders of the Lost Ark.

[13:10] Mm-hmm.

[13:11] Temple of Doom.

[13:12] Crystal Skull.

[13:13] Last Crusade.

[13:15] And Dial-O-Destiny.

[13:17] I still haven't seen that one.

[13:19] Dial-O-Destiny.

[13:20] I haven't seen that one yet.

[13:21] He was also in a bunch of comics.

[13:23] Stuff like that.

[13:24] But we're focused on movies.

[13:24] A TV has no TV show.

[13:25] The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles.

[13:27] Oh, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[13:27] Oh, yeah.

[13:27] TV show.

[13:28] Okay.

[13:28] So.

[13:29] Yeah, we got some movies here.

[13:31] What do we think?

[13:32] Where does he fall under radness?

[13:33] I think he's going to do pretty well on that.

[13:37] Yeah, I think so.

Elliott Kalan

[13:39] I mean, Dan, do you want me to go first or no?

Dan McCoy

[13:40] Yeah, you go first this time because I want to see where you're going to go.

Elliott Kalan

[13:43] He gets a 10.

[13:44] Come on.

[13:45] He can wield a whip.

[13:46] He can punch a Nazi.

[13:47] He can also teach an archaeology class.

[13:49] This guy, he's – because you know what the sexiest part of a guy is?

[13:52] His brain.

Dan McCoy

[13:53] And also, if you look like Harrison Ford, double sexy.

[13:56] Yeah.

[13:57] Yeah.

[13:58] I think you've convinced me to go actually a little higher than I was going to go on radness.

[14:01] Here's what I thought initially was going to take the radness down is that one of the things I like about Indiana Jones is he's not like an unstoppable machine.

[14:13] He is not – I guess that's bad.

[14:14] I think that falls under badness.

[14:16] That's true.

Elliott Kalan

[14:16] He's like Beyonce.

[14:17] He's showing you the work.

[14:19] He does show you the work.

[14:20] He's showing you that he's working hard.

[14:21] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[14:21] If he gets hit, you can tell it hurt him.

[14:23] He gets tired.

[14:25] Some of the best moments are him being like, oh, God, I got to deal with this shit now.

[14:29] Yeah.

[14:30] So – but I – you know, he's got the whip.

Stuart Wellington

[14:34] He's got the hat.

[14:36] Cool hat.

Dan McCoy

[14:36] He's got the leather jacket.

[14:38] He – yeah, he's Harrison Ford.

[14:39] You can't do much better than that.

[14:40] I'm going to give him a nine.

Stuart Wellington

[14:42] Ooh, big scores.

[14:43] Okay.

[14:43] Now, let's talk about badness.

[14:46] You got something – you got something that needs actioned.

[14:50] Are you going to call Indiana Jones?

Elliott Kalan

[14:52] So here's the – here's what I'm going to say about that is this is going to be a hard one for me to parse because so often when we think action, we think fighting.

[14:59] Yeah.

[14:59] And as a fighter, he is not great.

[15:01] I would give him like a five or even a four at times.

[15:05] But if you're thinking action in terms of stunts, then I would give him a nine.

[15:09] So I'm going to – I'm going to balance it out and I'm going to say like a seven, I think.

[15:14] I think that's good.

[15:15] The thing is he is not super tough.

[15:17] He's just never – he's – I mean he's tough in that he can take punches, but he's not super tough in that – he's not Jack Reacher who's just grabbing people's heads and smashing them in his palms.

[15:25] Yeah, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[15:26] Yeah.

[15:26] I – yeah.

[15:27] Because he is like a bad penny, he always turns up, I will give him an eight.

[15:33] He is an energizer bunny of an action hero.

[15:36] Like part of the thing is like he is committed to doing what he's doing.

Stuart Wellington

[15:41] Yeah.

[15:41] And he's got a pretty good hit rate.

[15:44] Yeah.

[15:44] I mean I think – I feel like all our – it's not like like, oh, he won all his movies.

Elliott Kalan

[15:50] This guy loses every single time.

[15:53] I mean it's a mix.

[15:53] But I think he is a guy who often – he is often the – he is often the – as much as he has bad luck, he's often the recipient of good luck.

[16:01] When he's fighting that Nazi in Raiders of the Lost Ark, he doesn't beat that Nazi.

[16:05] The plane propeller beats that Nazi.

[16:07] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[16:07] Yeah.

[16:07] Like when he – in Temple of Doom, there are a number of parts where it's like the environment is really helping him out in these things.

[16:16] Like in the beginning of Raiders, it's like he doesn't get that idol from Alfred Molina.

[16:21] Yeah.

[16:21] Alfred Molina is killed by a bunch of spikes.

[16:23] You know, it's – he gets luck on his side.

Dan McCoy

[16:26] Well, that's what I was – similarly, like I would say that he has a good hit rate in that, yeah, he like survives and the villains don't.

[16:34] But yeah.

[16:34] But like it's always kind of a mixed decision when it comes to like how it personally works out for Professor Henry Indiana Jones Jr.

Elliott Kalan

[16:41] I mean if you see that first movie – again, not to just keep going to Raiders, but it's the best one.

[16:45] If you keep going to it, he does not defeat the villain.

[16:48] God defeats the villain at the end.

[16:49] Or rather the angel of death does.

[16:51] Like it's – he's a guy who is often in the wrong place for a while and then ends up being in the right place at the exact right moment.

[16:58] So that's why he takes a hit on bad – but at the same time, if you need someone to jump across a chasm, he can usually do it.

[17:04] Yeah.

[17:05] One of your top guys.

Stuart Wellington

[17:06] Yeah.

[17:07] Dan, give me a lucky dip roll for old Indiana Jones here.

[17:12] That's a five.

[17:12] Okay, okay, okay.

[17:14] Okay.

[17:15] Guys, on a scale of one to ten, you go out to brunch with a bunch of friends.

[17:21] And if you're in the right place, you're in the right place.

[17:22] You're in the right place.

[17:23] You're in the right place.

[17:24] The waiter hands him the bill.

[17:26] How likely is he to be able to handle this complicated brunch tab?

Dan McCoy

[17:32] Here's where I feel like it's going to fall down a little bit.

[17:34] I think that he's a smart guy.

[17:39] He's a professor.

[17:40] So certainly the actual act is not going to flummox him.

[17:48] But I think that there's a certain amount of the actual Harrison Ford grumpiness in there, impatience.

[17:54] So I'm going to give him a six.

[17:56] I don't think he's going to want to do it.

Elliott Kalan

[17:59] So this is where you and I, we're thinking the same way, but we're coming to different conclusions.

[18:03] I'm going to give him a nine on this because I think he's going to look at it.

[18:07] He's going to start doing that math.

[18:08] He's used to doing some kinds of math because he has to calculate the age of various artifacts.

[18:12] He's going to get flummoxed, and he's going to go screw it and just throw down a bunch of money and say, let's get out of here.

[18:17] He's going to pay the bill rather than do the math.

Dan McCoy

[18:19] He will cut the Gordian knot in a similar way that he shoots the swordsman is what you're saying.

Elliott Kalan

[18:24] Yes, and do you want to be with the guy who's able to do the math or do you want to be with the guy who's going to pay for brunch because he doesn't want to do the math?

[18:31] That's a good point.

Stuart Wellington

[18:32] Okay.

[18:33] Doing well so far.

[18:35] Let's do our third hero, Dan.

[18:38] Roll the die.

[18:41] That's a 13.

[18:42] A 13.

[18:42] Uh-oh.

[18:43] We are in the John territory.

[18:47] It could be any number of Johns, yeah.

[18:49] There's many Johns, and we have the aforementioned John Wick, Mr. Keanu Reeves.

[18:56] You might know him from such movies as John Wick, John Wick 4, John Wick 3, John Wick 2.

[19:03] It's true.

[19:04] I do know him from all of them.

[19:06] That's the proper order to watch them in.

[19:07] Yep.

[19:08] John Wick, how does he rank in terms of radness?

Dan McCoy

[19:14] I mean, look, he's got to rank high in terms of radness.

[19:18] The only thing that cuts him down a little bit is there's a lot of sadness in there, too.

[19:23] He's motivated by sadness, which slightly cuts the radness, but he looks so cool.

[19:28] He looks very cool.

[19:29] He's got the suit.

[19:30] He can do whatever.

Stuart Wellington

[19:32] It's kind of like the beard and hair combo.

[19:34] Yeah.

[19:35] It doesn't work on everybody, but it works for him.

Elliott Kalan

[19:37] Sure works on a very handsome man like Keanu Reeves, yeah.

[19:39] I'm going to give him a nine for radness.

[19:42] Interesting.

[19:43] I'm going to go a little lower.

[19:43] I'm going to give him a seven for radness because I think it's easy to mix up his radness and his badness.

[19:49] And I feel like the suit looks great.

[19:51] The whole look looks great.

[19:53] But personality-wise, again, he's not a guy I want to be.

[19:57] He's cool to me in that this guy's always in control.

[20:00] But again, he's super sad all the time.

[20:02] And I'm sad enough in my real life.

[20:03] Yes.

[20:03] It doesn't make me cool that my family tells me that.

[20:08] So I'm going to give him a seven just because it's hard to – you look at him and he's so cool to look at.

[20:12] But the more you spend time with him, I feel like the less cool he seems and the more kind of just sad and mopey.

Stuart Wellington

[20:18] Also, I got to say, I think for me, he loses a little bit of points in the like coolness category because knowing that that suit is like bulletproof or some bullshit, like I fucking hate it.

Elliott Kalan

[20:29] I forgot about that.

Stuart Wellington

[20:30] Yeah.

[20:31] That's right.

[20:31] And like it's bulletproof in the way that like he can be shot a million times and you never see any indication that bullets are even hitting the bulletproof suit, which is weird.

[20:41] He's not like bruised by it.

[20:43] Or like the suit doesn't even move.

[20:45] Yeah.

[20:45] It's just like whatever.

[20:46] Not a fan of that shit.

[20:48] Creators of the John Wick universe.

[20:51] Okay.

[20:51] But I think he's going to do pretty good in this next category and that's badness.

[20:56] How killy is this guy?

[20:58] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[20:59] I mean, I might have to like, even above my beloved Indiana Jones, I have to give him high marks for badness.

[21:05] I think it's a 10 because he is Baba Yaga.

[21:08] Yeah.

[21:08] He is feared by, you know, criminals and, you know, anyone.

[21:15] He's feared by the world.

Stuart Wellington

[21:18] And there's always like a bounty on him and all these dudes are like, you know what?

[21:21] I'm going to be the one to take him out.

[21:24] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[21:24] They're always wrong.

[21:25] I'm going to give him a nine.

[21:26] I'm going to dock a point because of that bulletproof suit, which I forget about.

[21:29] Because it is less, less impressive to me to kill all these people when they can't hurt you the same way.

[21:35] But, but you got it.

[21:36] I mean, he's so good at killing people in different ways.

[21:38] Aiming for the head.

Stuart Wellington

[21:39] It seems like a very simple.

[21:41] Well, he's aiming at everyone's head like twice.

[21:43] Yes.

Elliott Kalan

[21:44] Well, that's what makes him so good.

[21:46] That's what makes him a professional.

[21:47] You know.

[21:47] He figured out the cheat code.

Stuart Wellington

Elliott Kalan

[21:52] I'm going to give him a nine because he's certainly, you know, he's unstoppable.

[21:55] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[21:55] He's doing well.

[21:56] But let's see how Lucky Dip treats our boy, John Wick.

[22:00] A seven.

[22:01] Ooh.

[22:03] Okay.

[22:04] He's going to struggle here, I think.

[22:06] How likely is John Wick going to give a friend good dating advice?

Elliott Kalan

[22:11] Ooh, I'm going to give a zero.

[22:13] What?

[22:14] Okay.

Dan McCoy

[22:20] I'm like a little bit of your thinking on this.

[22:22] I mean, I, you know, I just.

[22:24] But because to me, look, he's been out of the scene for a while.

[22:27] Certainly.

[22:28] Long time.

[22:29] Long time.

[22:30] First he was married and then he was consumed by grief.

Stuart Wellington

[22:33] What's the old person dating at?

[22:35] Like silver sneakers or whatever.

Dan McCoy

[22:38] But he does seem to have, he does seem to have found a lasting love in his life.

[22:44] And has like.

[22:46] That.

[22:47] What is dog?

[22:47] That.

[22:47] That empathy.

Stuart Wellington

[22:48] He was married.

[22:50] The dog is kind of an extension of his dead wife.

[22:53] Yeah.

[22:53] No, no.

Elliott Kalan

[22:53] He was.

[22:54] He was married, but I feel like he got lucky that first time.

[22:57] Look at this guy.

[22:57] He's morose.

[22:58] He's very quiet.

[23:00] He has the weight of a thousand murdered souls on his heart.

[23:04] Yeah, it's true.

[23:04] I think he found a woman who was ready to help him through that.

[23:08] But if he.

[23:08] But if you.

[23:09] I was like, hey, I like this girl.

[23:10] I'm going to go on a date with her.

[23:11] I think he'd be like.

[23:12] Okay.

[23:12] He'd be like, stare into her soul.

[23:14] And show her the pain in your heart.

[23:16] See if she doesn't run away.

[23:18] And I'd be like.

Dan McCoy

[23:18] Uh.

[23:19] I don't know if that's the first impression I want to make.

[23:20] John.

[23:22] But on the basis of him.

[23:24] Having had that relationship.

[23:26] Which is a thing that.

[23:27] You know.

[23:27] I don't believe in a lot of action movie relationships.

[23:30] This one seems to have been meaningful.

[23:32] I'll give him a four.

[23:33] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[23:34] Okay.

[23:35] So.

[23:35] Communication is the key and the foundation of any good relationship.

[23:40] Really?

[23:40] How often did you and your wife talk?

[23:41] Not often.

Stuart Wellington

[23:44] Yeah.

[23:44] I'm thinking it's a red flag.

Dan McCoy

[23:47] We just exchanged puppies.

Elliott Kalan

[23:50] Ironically.

[23:51] Keanu Reeves and Bill and Ted.

[23:52] I'd give him a much higher grade.

[23:53] Oh yeah.

[23:53] Yeah.

[23:54] That guy knows how to show.

[23:55] How to tell you how to show someone a good time.

[23:57] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[23:57] Okay.

[23:57] We're doing good.

[23:58] Let's roll our next hero.

[24:00] That's a one.

[24:01] Oh.

[24:01] Heck yeah.

[24:02] And did I say hero?

[24:03] I mean heroes.

[24:05] Because we got the Toretto family.

[24:07] You would know them from the Fast and the Furious.

[24:09] They all get to be one thing.

[24:09] That is one thing.

[24:11] I mean.

[24:11] I feel like.

[24:12] Oh.

[24:12] We can't parse this team.

[24:14] They're like.

[24:15] If we separate them.

[24:16] The whole team.

[24:17] It's not.

[24:17] The whole team.

Dan McCoy

[24:18] Like the family.

[24:19] As in the larger sense of like.

[24:21] Family is what's important.

[24:22] Not just his family.

[24:23] This is.

[24:23] Family.

Elliott Kalan

[24:24] Yeah.

[24:24] This is the whole family.

[24:25] The family family.

[24:26] Not his family.

[24:26] But the family.

[24:27] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[24:28] Yeah.

[24:28] I mean.

[24:29] We can strip it down to the core members.

[24:31] Maybe remove like.

[24:33] Hobbs and Shaw.

[24:34] I don't know.

[24:35] I feel like you'd have to.

Dan McCoy

[24:36] Right?

[24:36] Yeah.

[24:36] They're sort of.

[24:37] Yeah.

[24:37] I don't know that they ever.

[24:38] I mean.

[24:39] They were at a couple of barbecues.

[24:40] I think maybe.

[24:41] But.

Stuart Wellington

[24:41] They're affiliates.

[24:42] Yeah.

[24:43] Yeah.

[24:44] Okay.

[24:44] So break out the Coronas boys.

[24:46] Where are we at with gratitude for the.

[24:48] Elliot.

[24:48] I got a question.

[24:49] How many of the Fast and Furious have you seen?

Elliott Kalan

[24:51] Not that many because I keep meaning to go back and finally watch them all.

[24:55] But I don't.

[24:56] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[24:56] Want to that badly.

[24:57] Sit down with the boys.

[24:58] Yeah.

[24:58] I don't mean.

Dan McCoy

[24:59] Of all the people I know.

[25:00] I don't think that you necessarily need to do this.

[25:03] Like.

[25:03] I can't imagine you being like.

[25:05] Coming out of it being like.

[25:06] Yeah.

[25:06] I had a great time.

Elliott Kalan

[25:08] Yeah.

[25:08] I mean.

[25:08] Well.

[25:09] So there are certain movies where if I go into it expecting it to be objectively like

[25:13] kind of good smart.

[25:14] And then it's dumb.

[25:15] I'm disappointed.

[25:16] Yeah.

[25:16] But if I go into a movie being like.

[25:17] This is going to be dumb.

[25:19] Yeah.

[25:19] Then I can enjoy it.

[25:20] And the thing is with the Fast and Furious movies.

[25:22] Where the series is now.

[25:23] Just from what I picked up from the later entries.

[25:25] Which I'm not as familiar with.

[25:26] I don't know whether.

[25:27] Like.

[25:28] I feel like I hear people who are like.

[25:29] Oh.

[25:29] They're really fun because they're dumb.

[25:30] And then I'll hear people who are like.

[25:31] These are great movies.

[25:33] Yeah.

[25:33] Like they're great action movies.

[25:34] And I don't know.

[25:35] I'm worried about not knowing.

[25:37] What to.

[25:38] How to frame it.

Stuart Wellington

[25:39] In my mind.

[25:39] I feel like Fast.

[25:40] I feel like Fast Five is the high point.

[25:42] Right?

Dan McCoy

[25:43] Probably.

[25:43] I think that the people who are really into.

[25:46] The Fast and the Furious movies.

[25:48] Have bought into this like.

[25:49] Family framing.

[25:51] In a way that I just cannot.

[25:51] Family.

[25:52] Yeah.

[25:52] To me I'm like.

[25:53] This is like.

[25:54] The barest like.

[25:55] Placeholder idea of like.

[25:57] We got to have some heart in this movie.

[25:58] That they have thrown over.

[26:00] It like a tarp.

[26:01] The whole series.

[26:02] Like.

[26:02] Yeah.

[26:02] If we just mentioned family.

[26:03] And every one of it.

[26:04] But I mean.

[26:05] I do.

[26:05] I guess there is like.

[26:07] I say that.

[26:08] It is kind of like.

[26:09] Weirdly admirable.

[26:10] We're just going to keep adding people.

[26:12] And they're all coming back.

[26:14] You know.

[26:14] I love it.

[26:16] So.

[26:17] So what are we.

[26:18] Ratitude.

Stuart Wellington

[26:19] Sorry.

[26:20] My.

[26:21] Yeah.

[26:21] My.

[26:21] My little.

Dan McCoy

[26:22] I can.

Stuart Wellington

[26:24] I can deal with that.

[26:25] Okay.

[26:25] So we are on Ratitude.

[26:27] Ratitude.

[26:27] Where does the.

[26:28] Toretto family fall into the category of like.

[26:32] Coolness.

[26:33] I think this may say more about our opinions of what's cool or not.

Elliott Kalan

[26:37] I think that's true.

[26:38] Because I feel like they're.

[26:39] I'm torn.

[26:39] Because they are objectively supposed to be very cool.

[26:43] And a lot of people think they're very cool.

[26:45] But there's a layer of.

[26:47] Like.

[26:49] Toxic hostile misogyny.

[26:50] That I feel like.

[26:51] That.

[26:52] That's like a cloud of that around them.

[26:53] It really stuck out to me during the.

[26:55] The Universal Studios.

[26:56] Uh.

[26:56] Tour.

[26:57] The Universal Studios.

[26:58] Studio tour.

[26:58] Where there's a.

[26:59] There's a Fast and Furious section of that.

[27:01] Which opens with the characters.

[27:03] At a club.

[27:03] Where it's just a couple of the.

[27:05] Toretto family characters.

[27:06] And.

[27:07] Just these scantily clad women.

[27:08] Dancing with them.

[27:09] And then a guy walks up with a gun.

[27:10] And is like.

[27:11] Get out of here ladies.

[27:12] Get out of here.

[27:12] And they're all like.

[27:13] Forced at a gunpoint.

[27:14] And I was like.

[27:15] And it made me think of.

[27:17] The.

[27:17] How.

[27:18] Whenever.

[27:18] The scenes where there's like a.

[27:20] Like a.

[27:20] A racing meet.

[27:21] And there's always women who are just shaking their butts at the camera.

[27:24] Yeah.

[27:24] And otherwise are not human being characters.

[27:26] And so I'm like.

[27:26] I mean.

[27:27] This.

[27:28] This.

[27:29] Maybe I need to see the full.

[27:30] The full.

[27:30] You know.

[27:31] End of the series.

[27:32] Yeah.

[27:32] In context.

[27:33] In context.

[27:34] It would make more sense.

Dan McCoy

[27:34] But that's part of like.

[27:36] The general.

[27:36] Like.

[27:37] Like.

[27:38] Vibe of like.

[27:39] The movies.

[27:41] And I.

[27:41] I guess you can't like.

[27:43] Divorce that entirely.

[27:44] But that's not necessarily the attitude of like.

[27:46] With the heroes.

[27:47] And like.

[27:47] Yeah.

[27:48] I will say.

[27:48] They're not.

Stuart Wellington

[27:48] They're not.

[27:49] They're not creeps.

Dan McCoy

[27:50] They do have.

[27:50] Well.

[27:51] A larger number of.

[27:53] Female action.

[27:55] You know.

[27:55] They're still wildly.

[27:56] Yeah.

[27:57] Yeah.

[27:57] Wildly overrepresented to be men.

[27:59] But there's like.

[28:00] You know.

[28:00] Significant women on the team.

[28:02] In a way that's not always true.

Stuart Wellington

[28:03] And like.

[28:04] And like.

[28:05] Like.

[28:06] Tyrese's character.

[28:07] What's Tyrese?

[28:07] Roman.

[28:08] Roman.

[28:10] Is kind of portrayed as like.

[28:11] Kind of a horn dog.

[28:12] Right.

[28:12] But he's also like.

[28:13] Everyone kind of makes fun of him for it.

Dan McCoy

[28:15] Yeah.

[28:15] He's like a.

[28:15] Bit of a goober.

[28:16] Like.

Stuart Wellington

[28:17] This is what.

[28:17] If you.

[28:18] If you're going to spread it over everyone.

[28:19] Yeah.

[28:19] We got to spread it over everyone.

[28:20] You got cool people.

Dan McCoy

[28:21] You got goobers.

[28:22] And also.

[28:24] They're really obsessed with cars.

[28:25] Which like.

[28:25] A lot of people think is cool.

[28:26] But I don't give a shit about.

[28:28] Yeah.

[28:28] So I'm going to give them a six.

Stuart Wellington

[28:30] Yeah.

[28:30] I'll give them a five.

[28:31] I'll give them a five on this one.

[28:32] Six and a.

[28:33] Yeah.

[28:33] Okay.

[28:33] That's.

[28:33] That's cool.

[28:34] In a way.

[28:35] I feel like a five is fair.

[28:36] Because it's like.

[28:37] I feel like they're.

[28:38] In.

[28:39] In general.

[28:40] Like.

[28:41] Does.

[28:41] Like.

[28:41] The design of them.

[28:42] Isn't particularly cool.

[28:44] Like.

[28:45] Yeah.

[28:45] They just feel like a mishmash.

[28:46] Of just like.

[28:46] Yeah.

[28:47] Everything that's in an action movie.

[28:48] Just put them in this team.

[28:49] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[28:49] I don't.

[28:50] I don't get a sense of a real.

[28:51] Kind of like.

[28:52] Clear.

[28:52] Yeah.

[28:53] Clear style or look.

[28:54] Other than.

[28:55] A bunch of guys hanging around.

[28:56] Yeah.

[28:57] A bunch of guys and women.

[28:58] Hanging around.

[28:58] You know.

[28:59] Okay.

[28:59] Which is what they're going for.

Stuart Wellington

[29:00] You know.

[29:01] Yep.

[29:01] So.

[29:03] Let's talk about.

[29:05] Badness.

[29:05] How bad is this team?

[29:08] Now.

[29:08] Elliot.

[29:08] If you've only watched the first couple entries.

[29:10] You would think that their reach is fairly limited.

[29:12] They are basically.

[29:13] I'm aware of how.

[29:14] I'm aware of how powerful they get.

[29:14] But now they are going into space.

[29:16] And there's lasers.

Elliott Kalan

[29:18] I mean.

[29:19] In terms of badness.

[29:19] I'm going to.

[29:20] I'm going to put them pretty high up.

[29:22] Because.

[29:22] Similar to Indiana Jones.

[29:23] It feels like the universe has.

[29:25] Warped itself around them.

[29:27] To do.

[29:27] To let them do things that.

[29:29] Otherwise they would.

[29:30] Like.

[29:30] I'm sure there's.

[29:31] There's got to be one where Vin Diesel catches a car.

[29:33] That's flying through the air.

[29:34] Right.

[29:35] He does.

Dan McCoy

[29:36] Yeah.

[29:36] So like.

[29:36] Essentially.

Elliott Kalan

[29:37] Yeah.

[29:37] So I'm going to have to give an eight for that.

[29:39] Because that's.

[29:39] That's pretty bad.

[29:41] To be able to like.

[29:42] Treat a car the way you would a frisbee.

[29:44] Or a gun.

[29:45] Or any other kind of handheld object.

[29:46] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[29:47] As long as they're touching a car.

[29:48] They're safe.

[29:48] It's.

[29:49] I've talked about this.

[29:50] It's like that.

[29:50] That Hercules villain.

[29:52] Who like.

[29:52] As long as he's touching the ground.

[29:54] He has strength.

[29:54] Hercules villain.

Elliott Kalan

[29:57] Yeah.

[29:57] He's got a pretty good rogues gallery.

[29:59] Hercules.

[29:59] Oh yeah.

[30:00] What issue of Hercules was that in?

[30:02] This is coming from me who is.

[30:03] Who is writing a Hercules comic book.

[30:07] Yeah.

[30:07] I wouldn't be like.

[30:08] Oh yeah.

[30:08] The Sphinx.

[30:09] That's Hercules arch nemesis.

Stuart Wellington

[30:11] Yeah.

[30:11] That bad guy.

[30:12] The Aegean Stables.

[30:13] Or whatever.

[30:14] It is true that like.

[30:16] It seems like.

Dan McCoy

[30:17] You know.

[30:17] Instead of gun food.

[30:19] They have car food.

[30:20] They can do anything.

[30:20] They can.

[30:21] You know.

[30:22] Change physics.

[30:24] Like.

[30:24] I think I'm still.

[30:25] My personal.

[30:26] Like.

[30:27] Sort of.

[30:27] Middlingness on the series.

[30:29] Might be.

Stuart Wellington

[30:30] What was your rating score.

[30:31] By the way.

[30:31] Elliot.

[30:32] Eight.

[30:32] Did you say an eight?

[30:33] For which one?

[30:33] I think.

[30:33] For badness.

Dan McCoy

[30:35] Yeah.

[30:35] I'm going to go one lower.

[30:36] I'm going to go seven.

[30:37] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[30:37] Cool.

[30:37] Now let's see what their lucky dip is.

[30:39] They got a lot of members.

[30:41] I feel like spreading their skills out.

[30:42] They're going to crush this one.

Dan McCoy

[30:44] Yeah.

[30:44] The 16.

Stuart Wellington

[30:46] Okay.

[30:47] Fitting in a phone booth.

[30:49] Ooh.

[30:49] This one.

[30:50] It's not going to work out so well.

[30:51] I think we.

[30:52] I think.

[30:52] We actually hit one.

[30:54] That's going to be a little bit hard for them.

[30:56] How likely.

[30:57] Is the Toretto family.

[30:58] Going to host.

[30:59] A good episode.

[31:01] Of Saturday Night Live.

[31:04] Oh boy.

[31:05] Wow.

Elliott Kalan

[31:06] I think this is hard for them.

[31:07] I feel like this is a hard one.

[31:08] For most of the people.

[31:09] Who are going to be on.

[31:09] This list.

[31:10] But.

[31:11] Well it depends.

[31:12] There's.

[31:13] I mean.

[31:14] They can't all.

[31:15] I mean the monologue is going to be a mess.

[31:16] Unless it's just Dom.

[31:18] Doing it.

[31:18] You know.

[31:19] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[31:19] Then it will be good.

[31:22] Well that's the thing.

[31:23] Like between.

[31:24] All of.

[31:25] If we're talking about all of the actors.

[31:26] Like if you split them all up.

[31:27] And just assign them to like.

[31:29] Where their strengths lie.

[31:30] Uh huh.

[31:30] It might be good.

Stuart Wellington

[31:32] Does Saturday Night Live do that Dan?

Dan McCoy

[31:33] Well.

[31:34] Well they rarely have.

[31:35] Have 17 people.

[31:37] Yeah.

[31:37] You don't usually have 17.

[31:37] That's what I'm saying.

[31:38] If you can do that.

[31:39] But if it's the characters.

[31:42] Of people who are.

[31:43] You know.

[31:43] Like these car based.

[31:45] Uh.

[31:45] Super spies.

[31:46] Essentially.

[31:47] Not performers.

[31:48] I'm going to give them a three.

[31:50] Yes.

Stuart Wellington

[31:51] Ooh.

[31:52] Taking.

[31:52] Taking some hits.

[31:53] I'm going to give them.

Elliott Kalan

[31:54] I'm going to give them a three as well.

[31:56] If only because.

[31:57] I think it would be a very entertaining episode to watch.

[31:59] Because I'm imagining.

[32:00] Them just tearing apart that show.

[32:03] And just wrecking it.

[32:04] It'll be like that Mardi Gras episode of.

[32:06] Saturday Night Live.

[32:06] They did in the early seasons.

[32:08] But um.

[32:08] But yeah.

[32:09] I don't think it'll be.

[32:10] I don't think Lauren will consider it a successful show.

Dan McCoy

[32:12] Yeah.

[32:13] I mean.

[32:13] Considering that most.

[32:15] People who are professionals.

[32:16] Can't host a funny episode of Saturday Night Live.

[32:19] What about Wayne Gretzky?

Elliott Kalan

[32:20] There are other issues beyond the host on that one.

[32:22] You know.

Stuart Wellington

[32:23] Okay.

[32:24] So.

[32:25] Okay.

[32:25] Now we got number.

[32:26] We're almost halfway through with this first episode.

[32:29] All right.

Dan McCoy

[32:30] We got number five.

Stuart Wellington

[32:32] Okay.

[32:33] Now we're going all the way back.

[32:35] To the wilds of Hyperborea.

[32:37] Conan the Barbarian.

[32:39] Oh wow.

[32:40] Conan the Barbarian.

[32:41] Played on screen by what?

[32:43] Two different actors.

[32:44] We got Arnold Schwarzenegger.

[32:47] And there was.

Elliott Kalan

[32:48] There was.

[32:49] And there was.

[32:49] What's his name?

[32:50] Who's in the recent.

[32:51] Yeah.

[32:52] Yeah.

[32:52] Jason Moe.

[32:53] And.

[32:53] That was Jason Moe.

[32:55] I feel like.

[32:56] Was there another one?

[32:57] Maybe there wasn't.

[32:58] For some reason I thought there was another.

[32:59] But there were a lot of.

[33:00] There were a lot of kind of.

[33:02] Movies that.

[33:02] Where they.

[33:03] They kind of would call it.

[33:04] Conan does this.

[33:05] But it wasn't officially Conan.

[33:07] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[33:08] Okay.

[33:09] And was he also in Red Sonja?

[33:10] Yeah.

[33:11] Yeah.

[33:12] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[33:12] Yeah.

[33:13] He wasn't Red Sonja.

[33:14] Right.

[33:15] But that's Schwarzenegger.

[33:16] I think so.

[33:16] Yeah.

[33:17] Yeah.

[33:17] That's Schwarzenegger.

[33:18] Yeah.

[33:19] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[33:19] Do you need any help?

[33:21] No.

[33:22] Okay.

[33:23] So we have Conan the Barbarian guys.

[33:27] How does he fall under the category of radness?

Dan McCoy

[33:32] You know.

[33:33] You know.

Dan McCoy

[33:33] I am less of a fantasy guy than I think either of you.

[33:38] But he does have like.

[33:41] A big cool sword.

[33:42] And like.

[33:43] Does.

[33:43] Like straps on his body and stuff.

[33:46] And you know.

[33:46] I.

[33:48] I don't.

[33:48] Like he says cool things.

[33:49] Like hear about.

[33:50] The thing about hearing the lamentations of their women.

[33:52] That's cool.

[33:53] I.

[33:54] I guess I'll give him an eight.

[33:55] Crom.

[33:55] I've not prayed to you before.

[33:57] I have no tongue for it.

Elliott Kalan

[33:58] This is going to feel.

[33:59] This is going to feel hypocritical after what I said about the misogyny.

[34:02] That.

[34:02] That kind of hovers around the Toretto's.

[34:05] Since Conan the Barbarian is an explicitly misogynist character.

[34:10] Yeah.

[34:10] But I'm going to give him probably a nine.

[34:11] Because he is.

[34:13] If it.

[34:13] As far as male power fantasies go.

[34:16] It's hard.

[34:16] It's hard to think of a better one.

[34:17] Like where he's.

[34:18] He's.

[34:19] Just with his wits.

[34:20] And his strong sword arm.

[34:22] He can lay waste to.

[34:24] He can basically do whatever he wants in the world around him.

[34:27] And.

[34:27] He wears.

[34:28] Those furry boots.

[34:29] He's got the straps as Dan mentioned sometimes.

[34:32] You know.

[34:32] And he's jacked.

[34:33] And he's jacked as all get out.

Stuart Wellington

[34:35] As all.

[34:36] And he.

[34:37] What?

[34:37] He grew up just pushing a wheel in a circle.

[34:39] The wheel of pain.

[34:40] Yeah.

[34:40] That's awesome.

Dan McCoy

[34:40] I think we're getting into badness territory.

[34:42] Which I want to.

[34:43] You know.

[34:44] Yeah.

[34:44] Let's get into badness.

Elliott Kalan

[34:45] But I would say.

[34:45] Wait.

[34:45] Before we get.

[34:46] Before we start then.

[34:46] I was just saying.

[34:47] In terms of radness.

[34:48] Like.

[34:48] If you.

[34:49] Setting apart from the movies.

[34:50] Looking at that character as a.

[34:52] As an.

[34:52] As a character.

[34:53] It's hard to find a fantasy character that is more influential than.

[34:56] Than Conan.

[34:57] Just in the.

[34:57] In the molds that it's set for.

[34:59] The kinds of.

[35:00] Characters you would see in those.

[35:02] Power fantasies.

[35:02] So that's.

[35:03] That's pretty.

[35:03] You gotta be pretty rad to do that.

[35:04] Yeah.

[35:04] You know.

Stuart Wellington

[35:05] Okay.

[35:06] Let's move on to badness.

[35:07] How bad is this dude?

Dan McCoy

[35:09] Yeah.

[35:09] Well this is what.

[35:10] Like.

[35:10] This is where he shines.

[35:11] I think.

[35:12] You know.

[35:12] He.

[35:13] He pushed that wheel for so long.

[35:15] Yep.

[35:15] That he just got.

[35:16] So he just got super jacked.

[35:17] Yeah.

[35:17] Jacked.

[35:18] And then like.

[35:18] Somehow he helped his abs.

[35:19] Pushing that wheel.

Stuart Wellington

[35:20] I mean.

[35:21] You gotta brace your cord.

[35:22] Yeah.

[35:22] You're gonna break your back.

Dan McCoy

[35:24] As someone who like.

[35:27] Carried.

[35:28] Audrey's new office chair.

[35:30] Up the stairs.

[35:31] The other day.

[35:32] And was like.

[35:32] Did you call it.

[35:33] Did you call it.

[35:33] The wheel of pain.

[35:34] I was like.

[35:34] I shouldn't.

[35:35] A.

[35:36] I shouldn't have done this alone.

[35:37] And B.

[35:37] Like this.

[35:37] This required more core strength.

[35:39] Than I expected.

[35:40] It was like.

[35:41] Is my stomach gonna explode.

[35:43] Anyway.

[35:44] I will say.

[35:44] Yeah.

[35:45] That's a hernia Dan.

Stuart Wellington

[35:46] You don't want that.

[35:46] Did you.

[35:46] Did you have any uncontrolled urination.

[35:48] No.

[35:49] Or did you let out any toots.

[35:50] I had some controlled.

[35:52] Controlled urination.

[35:53] Yeah.

[35:53] He was slowly.

Elliott Kalan

[35:54] He was controlling the urination in bursts.

[35:56] So that.

[35:56] Yeah.

[35:56] So that it would be.

[35:57] When nothing would get broken.

[35:59] Yeah.

[35:59] I gotta admit guys.

Stuart Wellington

[36:00] I was.

[36:00] I was doing a leg day at the gym today.

[36:02] And I was doing TED lifts.

[36:03] And I had a little accidental toot.

[36:05] In the middle of a deadlift.

[36:06] I think that's fine.

[36:07] It happens to the best of us.

[36:08] It's the first time it's ever happened mid lift though.

[36:11] Before I like braced real hard.

[36:13] Before a squat.

[36:14] And I like let off part.

[36:17] Anyway the point is a nine.

[36:18] I'll give him a nine.

[36:19] Yeah.

[36:19] Let's do it.

Elliott Kalan

[36:20] And I'm gonna give him a ten.

[36:21] On badness.

[36:22] Cause he's.

[36:22] You know.

[36:23] He lives in a world of magic.

Stuart Wellington

[36:24] Doesn't he kill a god in Conan the Destroyer?

Elliott Kalan

[36:27] Yeah.

[36:27] I think so.

[36:27] Like he lives in a world of magic.

[36:29] He does not have magic powers.

[36:30] He just has a sword.

[36:31] Again.

[36:31] His strength and his wits.

[36:33] And he lays waste to everything before him.

[36:35] You know.

[36:35] Yeah.

[36:36] There's.

[36:36] He's wrestling gorillas in the stories.

[36:38] You know.

[36:38] Like he's.

[36:39] I mean I'm thinking about the stories.

[36:40] Not the movies.

[36:41] But.

[36:41] Yeah.

[36:41] But yeah.

[36:41] I'm gonna give it.

[36:41] He's unstoppable.

[36:42] Yeah.

[36:43] And he becomes king by his own hand.

[36:45] Yes.

[36:45] He comes from nowhere.

[36:47] He is literally a slave bound to the wheel.

[36:49] And yet through his own strength of will and body.

[36:52] He manages to become King Conan.

[36:55] Yeah.

[36:55] It's hard to.

[36:55] Hard to beat that.

[36:56] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[36:57] Okay.

[36:58] Let's see how Conan does with his lucky dip.

[37:01] I got a seven.

[37:02] Okay.

[37:02] It's so good he didn't get the brunch one.

[37:05] Ooh.

[37:05] Actually this one's pretty good for him.

[37:08] How likely.

[37:10] Conan arrives in ye olde Transylvania.

[37:13] Okay.

[37:13] How likely is he to be able to stop a Dracula?

Dan McCoy

[37:17] Yeah.

[37:18] I would give him a ten.

[37:19] Like you said it.

[37:20] He lives in a world of sorcery.

[37:22] He's familiar with I think.

Elliott Kalan

[37:25] This is a layup for old Conan.

[37:27] Yeah.

[37:27] He'll chop the shit out of this guy.

[37:29] This was an easy one for him.

[37:30] I mean I'm gonna give him a nine just because Dracula is very powerful.

[37:35] You know.

[37:35] But.

Elliott Kalan

[37:36] Yeah.

[37:36] It's.

[37:36] I imagine.

[37:37] Every other character on this list I'm guessing.

[37:40] Would face Dracula and be a little bit thrown off and shocked or scared.

[37:44] Whereas for Conan this is the kind of thing he deals with all the time.

Dan McCoy

[37:46] Yeah.

[37:47] So.

[37:47] John Wick would not do well against Dracula.

[37:49] We saw what happened.

Stuart Wellington

[37:52] Yeah.

[37:53] I mean before I can weigh in here.

[37:55] I'm gonna have to roll up a barbarian character in D&D.

[37:58] And then actually do all the rolls for the entire Curse of Strahd campaign.

[38:02] To see how well he does.

[38:03] But we'll get there.

[38:05] Okay.

[38:05] So.

[38:06] We're halfway through.

[38:07] I think it's time for a message from our sponsors.

[38:12] This week's mini is brought to you by Aura.

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[38:39] So.

[38:40] I know Dan.

[38:41] Every time I come into Dan's living room.

[38:43] I see the Aura frame there.

[38:44] Loaded up with tons of pictures from Dan's various parties.

[38:48] And specifically Dan's wedding.

[38:50] Which was a ton of fun.

[38:51] And it's great every time I see it.

[38:54] My wife.

[38:55] We recently got an Aura frame.

[38:57] And my wife filled it up with pictures to give to her father.

[39:00] Because he honestly struggles a little bit with technological stuff.

[39:04] So it was nice that my wife set that whole thing up for him.

[39:06] So he has pictures of us instead of just pictures of the stuff his wife wants to put up in the house.

[39:12] That I shouldn't talk about during an ad.

[39:14] Okay.

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Elliott Kalan

[39:53] Those Aura frames are great.

[39:54] It's the perfect gift for an older person.

[39:56] We get them for my parents and my wife's parents.

[39:59] They're really.

[40:00] And they love them.

[40:02] We're also here to talk about FLOP TV.

[40:04] That's right, everybody.

[40:05] FLOP TV continues apace.

[40:07] The one-hour online televisual version of the FLOP House.

[40:11] The first Saturday of every month from September through February.

[40:15] We're halfway through the season.

[40:17] We've done Robocop 2, Breaking 2, and Caddyshack 2.

[40:20] Because this season is all about sequels.

[40:22] And we've got coming up on December 7th, I guess in order to celebrate Pearl Harbor Day, Highlander 2, The Quickening.

[40:29] It'll be 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific.

[40:31] We will be on your computer screen if you tune in, buying a ticket, of course.

[40:35] And we're going to talk about Highlander 2, The Quickening.

[40:38] These episodes have been super fun.

[40:40] Each episode comes with a presentation, video segments that are totally new and original to this series.

[40:46] I taught people how to break dance when we had the Break in 2 episode.

[40:50] Stuart interviewed the skeleton of the gopher from Caddyshack in the Caddyshack 2 episode.

[40:57] That happened.

[40:58] Deal with it.

[41:00] Everything's been super fun and funny, and I can't wait to see what these guys and myself have cooked up for our show on December 7th.

[41:06] So go to theflophouse.simpleticks.com to buy tickets or a season pass.

[41:11] The season pass gets you six shows for the price of five.

[41:14] It's like getting a free show, a free episode of Flop TV.

[41:17] And we hope you can tune in and enjoy it.

[41:19] And if you can't tune in when the show is airing, the video stays up for every episode through February.

[41:25] So you can enjoy it at your leisure, theflophouse.simpleticks.com.

S4

[41:30] Say you like video games, and who doesn't?

Stuart Wellington

[41:37] I mean, some people probably don't.

S4

[41:38] Okay, but a lot of people do.

[41:40] So say you're one of those people, and you feel like you don't really have anyone to talk to about the games that you like.

[41:46] Well, you should get some better friends.

[41:47] Yes, you should get some better friends, but you could also listen to Triple Click,

[41:52] a weekly podcast about video games hosted by me, Kirk Hamilton.

Stuart Wellington

[41:56] Me, Maddie Myers.

S4

[41:58] And me, Jason Schreier.

[41:59] We talk about new releases, old classics, industry news, and whatever, really.

Stuart Wellington

[42:04] We'll show you new things to love about games, and maybe even help you find new friends to talk to about them.

[42:10] Triple Click.

S4

[42:11] It's kind of like We're Your Friends.

[42:13] Find us at MaximumFun.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

Stuart Wellington

[42:19] Throughout history, sirens have captured men's attention, enticed men with their feminine wiles, and fulfilled men's primal needs.

S4

[42:26] The sirens allure persists.

[42:28] They have not.

[42:29] Unless the primal need is, I need to be smashed on the rocks.

[42:32] Yeah.

[42:33] Smash me.

[42:34] Smash me, mommy.

[42:35] Smash me, mama.

[42:36] Smash me, mommy.

S4

[42:40] The sirens allure.

[42:43] Why do we do this to ourselves?

[42:45] Strand me, baby.

[42:46] Strand me, mom.

[42:46] Strand me, baby.

[42:48] So, yeah.

[42:48] This is My Brother, My Brother, and Me from Maximum Fun on Mondays.

[42:51] It's just like that.

[42:54] It's just like that, but more of it.

[42:57] There's more of that.

Stuart Wellington

[43:02] So, let's get back to the mini.

[43:04] We are, again, doing a definitive rankings of action heroes.

[43:07] We are five down.

[43:08] We got five more to go for this episode.

[43:10] And, guys, I do humbly request you keep your answers tight.

[43:13] So, Dan, why don't you roll up our next hero?

[43:17] It's 10.

[43:18] We got a 10.

[43:19] Okay.

[43:19] We got Imperator Furiosa from the Mad Max franchise.

[43:24] Ooh, solid.

[43:25] From such movies as Mad Max Fury Road and Furiosa.

[43:29] What, a Mad Max story or something?

[43:31] A Mad Max fable?

[43:33] Something like that?

[43:33] I don't know what it is.

[43:34] Okay.

[43:35] So, how does Imperator Furiosa fall under radness?

Dan McCoy

[43:41] Radness, this is where she's going to shine.

[43:44] She's going to crush.

[43:44] Like, look, sadness in other places has taken a few people down.

[43:50] Here, you know what?

[43:51] The sadness is not enough to overcome the radness.

Elliott Kalan

[43:54] No, she lives in a world of madness.

Dan McCoy

[43:55] Sadness is the only option.

[43:57] Yeah.

[43:57] She looks super cool.

[43:58] She's got a robot arm.

[43:59] She drives a big truck.

[44:01] I mean, it's such a fucking great design.

[44:04] Yeah.

[44:04] Like.

[44:04] Yes.

Stuart Wellington

[44:05] Her design is something.

[44:06] It feels unique and, like, immediately recognizable.

[44:09] It's amazing.

Elliott Kalan

[44:10] Yeah.

[44:10] And when you see her as the one woman who has earned this kind of, like, place of violent

[44:16] authority in this world of horrible men, you know that this is a badass character right

[44:21] off the top of that.

[44:22] She's had to work 10 times harder than every one of those other war boys to get where she

[44:25] is, you know?

[44:26] Mm-hmm.

[44:27] So, wait.

[44:28] What was that?

[44:28] A 10 for you?

[44:29] I gave it a 10.

[44:29] I'll give it a 10 for badness.

[44:30] Oh, crush.

[44:31] Sorry, radness.

[44:31] 10 for radness.

Stuart Wellington

[44:32] Radness.

[44:32] Let's talk about badness.

[44:33] How bad is this, this battler?

Dan McCoy

[44:38] Also, very high.

[44:39] You know what?

[44:40] I was going to, like, first, you know, dock her a little bit because, you know, like,

[44:46] does she have, like, the kill count or whatever if you're, like, looking at badness that way?

[44:50] But if you look at it in terms of, again, working her way up from nothing, like, the size

[44:55] of the fight and the dog, as they say, I'm going to give her a 9.

Elliott Kalan

[44:59] I'm going to give her a 9 also.

[45:00] Like Dan said, she doesn't have as huge a body count as some of the others, but look

[45:03] at the bodies.

[45:04] She overthrows a tyrant.

[45:06] Yeah.

[45:06] That counts for a lot.

[45:07] She's not just taking down, you know, random hit men who got a notification on their phone

[45:12] that there's a contract open on Jonathan Wicksworth.

[45:15] She's taking out the main villain and, at the same time, unfortunately, taking out the

[45:20] greatest guitarist in the wasteland.

[45:22] But, you know, it all goes to show you got to take the good with the bad so that she gets

[45:25] a 9 for badness.

[45:26] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[45:27] Now, let's give me a roll for unlucky dip, Danny.

[45:29] Okay.

[45:31] You got a 12.

[45:32] You got a 12.

[45:34] Okay.

[45:34] This might be a challenge for all Furiosa.

[45:37] Can do a convincing lead in a regional theater production of Fiddler on the Roof.

Elliott Kalan

[45:45] Ooh.

[45:45] I was going to rate her pretty high until I found out it was Fiddler because in Furiosa,

[45:50] she does a lot of performing in order to get through dangerous situations.

[45:54] She has to put on personas.

[45:56] But Tevye is a tough one.

[45:57] It's a very verbal role and she does not like to talk very much.

[46:01] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[46:02] Yeah.

[46:03] I mean, a lot of, I think convincing does a lot of work there.

[46:06] Like, what you think convincing means.

[46:08] Like, could she put on a good performance?

[46:11] Probably.

[46:12] If you want her to be convincing as the specific Jewish man from the specific time and place

[46:19] in history.

[46:19] The shuttle.

[46:20] I'm not sure.

Elliott Kalan

[46:21] I mean, I think she could, she could very much really tap into the idea of a stultifying

[46:25] tradition based social structure.

[46:28] Yeah.

[46:28] Because she lives in a world where, even though it seems anarchistic, there's a lot of like,

[46:33] a lot of applied roles that everyone has to play.

[46:36] In class, yeah.

[46:37] But I think it's going to be very hard for her to sing those songs.

[46:39] She's just not, I don't think, it's going to be hard for her to get across the joy of

[46:42] if I were a rich man.

[46:43] You know, the joy mixed with bittersweet, you know, yearning.

Dan McCoy

[46:46] Even so, I'm going to be generous because I think she can do a lot of what she puts her

[46:51] mind to.

[46:52] I'm going to give her a four.

[46:53] Okay.

[46:53] Elliot.

Elliott Kalan

[46:54] I'll give her a four as well.

[46:55] I think when she says, I have five daughters, she'll remember the women that she almost took

[46:59] to the Greenland, you know.

[47:00] That's true, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[47:01] Dan, give us our next hero.

[47:03] Not bad for Viriosa over here.

[47:04] That's a five.

[47:06] Okay.

[47:07] We got the man himself, Ethan Hunt.

[47:10] Oh, wow.

[47:10] No mission is more possible than when it's in the hands of Mr. Ethan Hunt, played by Thomas

[47:16] Cruz.

[47:17] Uh-huh.

[47:18] You would know him from the Mission Impossible franchise, of which there are, what, like nine

[47:23] of them now?

[47:23] Eight of them?

[47:24] Seven?

[47:24] Seven, I think.

[47:25] Seven.

[47:26] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[47:27] Yeah.

[47:29] Here's the thing about Ethan Hunt.

Elliott Kalan

[47:31] I mean, he was in Far and Away also.

[47:32] You'd also know Tom Cruise from Far and Away.

[47:34] Sure.

[47:34] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[47:34] You would know him from Far and Away.

[47:36] Yep.

[47:36] He can do nearly anything.

[47:40] But it's kind of a part of his character that he is not rad.

[47:45] Yeah.

[47:46] He is kind of a square.

[47:48] He, you know, has no, he's like kind of a cipher of a person in a certain way.

[47:55] And so I think in that area, I'm just going to give him a five.

[48:02] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[48:03] Yeah, I think that's fair.

[48:04] I mean, there's a certain, he has, he has this like, I think he does a, I'm going to chalk

[48:09] part of this up to just Tom Cruise's ability as a performer, but he does the like, oh shit,

[48:15] how am I going to deal with this new development face better than anyone else?

[48:19] Yes.

[48:19] Very good at that.

[48:20] So you said a five for Ethan Hunt on Radness.

[48:22] A five on Radness.

Elliott Kalan

[48:24] Elliot, you want to make a case?

[48:25] I'm going to give him a four because I've always found him to, actually, I'm going to

[48:29] give him a, yeah, I'm going to give him a four.

[48:30] He's written, when you see him in motion, it's very fun, but I've always found him to be the

[48:35] least distinct of action heroes.

[48:37] I don't get a sense, much sense of personality or style from him.

[48:41] And there was a certain point around Mission Impossible 4 where I was like, they should just

[48:44] call this character Tom Cruise.

[48:45] Like why even bother to give him a fake fictional name?

Stuart Wellington

[48:47] I do want to pump the brakes.

[48:48] If you want to see some style, you should watch Mission Impossible 2.

[48:53] It doesn't quite work.

[48:54] Because his hair is crazy and there's that awesome, that guitar.

[48:59] Wrap around shades.

[49:00] And that like motorcycle bit where he's like spinning around shooting gas tanks.

[49:05] Well, that falls under bad attitude for me.

Elliott Kalan

[49:09] But yeah, that's a style.

[49:10] That really feels like an experiment in style that the character could not sustain.

[49:14] Yeah.

[49:15] Okay, so.

[49:16] I feel like Lorenzo Lamas in Renegade has a more distinct action hero style to me than

[49:22] Ethan Hunt does.

Stuart Wellington

[49:23] That's 100% true.

[49:24] Unfortunately, Lorenzo Lamas in Renegade is not one of our options.

[49:27] No, it's television.

[49:27] So let's talk about badness.

[49:29] How effective is Mr. Ethan Hunt?

Dan McCoy

[49:31] I mean, these are literally impossible missions.

[49:34] And yet he pulls them off.

[49:36] He carries them off with a plump.

[49:37] Like this is what I love about this is like it is, again, that kind of Indiana Jones thing of like he shows the effort and I enjoy it.

[49:46] And I enjoy that he is like trying the hardest and he gets done, you know, impossible.

[49:53] So I'll give him a 10.

[49:54] He can do the impossible.

[49:55] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[49:55] Oh, I was going to give him, I'll give him an eight.

[49:58] It is impossible, but I feel like he's, he's, he gets by.

[50:04] Yeah.

[50:04] A lot of times on luck though, but I do like that.

[50:06] That's the fact.

[50:07] You know, I like that.

[50:08] My favorite moment in any of those movies, again, is when he's, he's climbing the Burj Khalifa and he has to swing through the window and he hits his head on the way in.

[50:14] It's great.

Stuart Wellington

[50:15] Yeah.

[50:16] Dan, give me a roll.

[50:17] Give me a roll.

[50:19] That's a 10.

[50:20] Okay.

[50:21] Okay.

[50:22] Ooh.

[50:22] Wee.

[50:23] Uh, okay.

[50:24] So this is one of the ones I wrote before the election.

[50:27] Oof.

[50:27] Uh, so on a scale of one being very likely to 10 being very unlikely, how likely is Ethan Hunt going to be a guest on the Joe Rogan Experience podcast?

[50:44] Um, you know what?

[50:46] Really blowing his cover as an undercover agent.

[50:49] Yeah.

[50:49] I feel like he'd be very unlikely on this one.

[50:51] Yeah.

[50:51] I'm going to steer it away.

[50:52] So he's going to get high, high, high points for this one.

Dan McCoy

[50:55] Yeah.

[50:55] I, I'm going to steer it away from any like political thing and say like, he just doesn't have the time.

[51:00] Like he's constantly saving the world.

[51:02] So if, if, if unlikely is the high number, I'm going to give him a nine.

Elliott Kalan

[51:06] Wait, so unlikely is the high number?

[51:08] Unlikely is the high number.

[51:09] Yeah.

[51:09] I'm also going to give him a nine.

[51:10] I feel like it's.

Stuart Wellington

[51:11] Because the higher your likelihood is, the less I like this character.

[51:15] I see.

Elliott Kalan

[51:15] The only reason I could see him on there is if it is part of the mission, like if it was the first mission impossible and he's still doing the mask stuff for the second mission impossible.

[51:22] I feel like he doesn't do as much with masks these days as he wants to.

[51:25] Oh, wow.

Stuart Wellington

[51:26] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[51:27] Well, look at over here.

[51:27] He's complaining.

[51:28] Not enough masks.

[51:30] No, but there's the scene in either the first or the second one where he is literally pretending to be like a congressman who's on a talk show.

[51:36] Yeah.

[51:37] So I could see him doing that if it's part of the mission, but otherwise.

Stuart Wellington

[51:40] I will say, Elliot, there's a very good mask bit in the beginning of Dead Reckoning.

[51:44] Okay.

[51:44] I got to, I still haven't seen it.

[51:45] Okay, so.

Elliott Kalan

[51:46] Every time I've been on a plane, I'm about to watch Dead Reckoning and then I see it's two hours and 45 minutes long and I'm like, I don't know.

[51:51] Yeah.

[51:51] I can sit here and watch this for two hours and 45 minutes.

[51:53] Hayley Atwell's in it.

Dan McCoy

[51:54] Maybe not the size of a screen for that kind of like big movie.

[51:59] So Dan said a nine.

Stuart Wellington

[52:00] What are you saying, Elliot?

[52:01] I'll say a nine also.

[52:02] Okay.

[52:02] Not bad, Mr. Ethan Hunt.

[52:05] Okay.

[52:05] Dan, give me a roll.

[52:07] We got a 10.

[52:10] Okay.

[52:11] We're bagging the Johns.

[52:13] We got, this is a classic one, guys.

[52:15] Star of everybody's favorite Christmas movie, John McClane, played by Bruce Willis.

[52:20] Because of the movie's named John McClane.

[52:22] Die Hard Franchise.

[52:23] It's not called John McClane, the movie.

[52:25] John McClane, star of the Die Hard Franchise.

[52:28] Yeah.

[52:30] Kind of, I mean, arguably Die Hard is like one of the best action movies of all time.

[52:35] No question.

Elliott Kalan

[52:37] I've never loved it as much as other people.

[52:39] Yeah, same.

[52:39] I see how well done it is.

[52:41] But I have to say, and for me often the weakness is John McClane to me.

[52:48] I find him to be a more irritating character.

[52:50] Oh.

Dan McCoy

[52:50] Than like a fun character.

[52:51] I would not agree with that.

[52:53] My thing is with Die Hard.

[52:54] Well, it's an opinion.

[52:55] Mm-hmm.

[52:56] No, I know.

[52:56] I'm saying I don't agree with your opinion.

[52:58] I hold a different one.

[53:01] I like it more as a thriller than I do an action movie.

[53:06] I think it is well constructed.

[53:08] Like it did a whole, you know, a whole genre came from Die Hard.

[53:13] And like it is a clever idea, well executed.

[53:16] The Christmas movie.

[53:18] Yeah.

[53:18] But on the action, the action is where it falls down for me.

[53:21] Because for the most part, it's just like people shooting at each other and then ducking behind things.

[53:26] Which I don't find exciting in the same way that I find a set piece exciting.

[53:29] Like an interesting stunt exciting.

[53:31] Like I don't give a shit if you're like can shoot someone else with a gun.

[53:35] Like sorry, America.

[53:37] I don't care about that.

Stuart Wellington

[53:39] Dan's not going to boot up Call of Duty after this.

Elliott Kalan

[53:43] Anyway.

[53:43] So what do you say in terms of radness, Dan?

[53:45] Let's talk about the John McClane character.

[53:47] Yeah.

[53:47] I feel like he's got some points here at least.

[53:49] He's got some.

[53:49] Maybe not from Elliot.

Dan McCoy

[53:50] Yeah.

[53:51] On Wisecracks and Attitude, I'll give him a seven.

Elliott Kalan

[53:55] I'm going to give him a six.

[53:58] If only because I don't like his Wisecracks quite as much.

Stuart Wellington

[54:02] Yeah, Elliot doesn't like fast talking heroes.

Elliott Kalan

[54:05] I like fast talking heroes where I like the material a little more.

[54:08] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[54:09] There's something about Bruce Willis that's very like self-satisfied.

[54:12] Yeah.

[54:13] Yes.

[54:14] You know.

[54:14] Ain't I a stinker?

[54:15] You know.

[54:16] Yeah.

[54:16] In a way that I like that coming out of a cartoon rabbit.

[54:18] Not quite as much in Commander Bruce Willis.

[54:20] Especially as the series goes on, the character becomes less and less interested in whatever

[54:24] he is doing at the moment.

Stuart Wellington

[54:25] Yeah, that's fair.

[54:27] Okay.

[54:27] So we got, let's talk about badness.

[54:30] How bad is this dude?

Dan McCoy

[54:33] Again, the thing about Die Hard that makes the movies interesting, but maybe not him, like

[54:38] the baddest guy, is like the whole deal is supposed to be he's just the wrong place,

[54:43] the wrong time.

[54:44] Yeah.

[54:44] Like he makes the best of it.

[54:46] He perseveres.

[54:47] So I'll give him a seven, but he's not the baddest.

[54:50] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[54:51] I'm going to give him a seven as well.

[54:52] I mean, that's the thing is he's supposed to be kind of an ordinary guy, but he gets

[54:56] through, which shows an inner badness that is coming out.

[54:59] But I'm never like the one part, I feel like the one scene everybody talks about in the

[55:04] Die Hard movies, aside from now I've got a machine gun or whatever, is him walking over

[55:08] that broken glass in the first one.

[55:10] And that is more a test of endurance rather than as a test of like, you know, bad kind

[55:14] of action, you know, take out the other guy's ability, you know.

[55:18] And I know that might sound a little hypocritical with what I was saying about Indiana Jones,

[55:21] but I just like him more.

[55:22] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[55:23] Okay.

[55:24] Dan, give me a lucky dip roll.

[55:25] We got a six here.

[55:28] A six.

[55:29] Okay.

[55:30] You're going out of town.

[55:31] This doesn't kind of apply to Elliot, but you're going out of town on a scale of one to

[55:36] 10.

[55:37] How good of a job would John McClane do at watching your pets?

Elliott Kalan

[55:41] I have children.

[55:42] Let's say he's watching my children.

[55:43] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[55:43] Okay.

[55:44] Yeah.

[55:44] If you can imagine for you, children are the new pets.

[55:48] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[55:49] You know, he seems like a nice man overall.

[55:54] He does, you know, he has, his personal life seems to be in shambles.

[56:00] So maybe that says something about responsibility.

[56:02] And then like, you know, like the third one, he's just come off a bender.

[56:07] But I'll give him a six.

[56:08] I'll be, I'll give him a six.

Stuart Wellington

[56:09] I also can't stress enough.

[56:11] This guy is constantly in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[56:14] I feel like that would be bad for your pet.

[56:15] It's true.

Elliott Kalan

[56:16] I'm giving him a two for that reason.

[56:18] If he's watching my kids or my non-existent pet, you know that a terrorist or a hostage

[56:24] taker or a bank robber is going to show up at that house.

[56:27] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[56:27] You know what?

[56:28] I won't be, I don't want to be overly influenced, but I'll take myself down to a five.

Stuart Wellington

[56:31] Okay.

[56:32] Cool.

[56:33] Dan, give me one more roll.

[56:35] Uh-huh.

[56:35] It's a 17.

[56:37] 17.

[56:39] Okay.

[56:41] This is kind of a, almost like a career retrospective.

[56:46] We have the star, the main hero in Police Story and Police Story 2.

[56:52] That's Chan Kakui.

[56:54] I probably mispronounced that, but that is Jackie Chan's character in the Police Story franchise.

[56:59] But in a way, this is also going to represent Jackie Chan's career in general.

[57:03] Okay.

[57:05] Because I feel like almost every character that Jackie Chan plays, at least through his, like, you know, great period of movies, is kind of fairly similar.

Elliott Kalan

[57:15] Kind of the same guy.

[57:16] Yeah.

[57:16] This is great timing.

[57:17] I was just re-watching Police Story the other night.

Stuart Wellington

[57:20] That's great.

[57:21] Were you watching it with the family?

Elliott Kalan

[57:22] No.

[57:23] But I was looking forward to the day when I could watch it with the family.

[57:25] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[57:26] I think that part of the point of Jackie Chan's character is a certain lack of radness.

[57:32] Like, you're supposed to be like, oh, wow, this, like, funny guy, like, is able to do this stuff.

[57:38] So, I don't know.

[57:40] I'm going to go as low as a four on this.

[57:43] Oh, okay.

Elliott Kalan

[57:43] I was going to even lower.

[57:44] I'm going to go with a three.

[57:46] Because he is not, he is both not cool, and he's also not particularly nice to the people around him.

[57:51] There's a scene in Police Story that I had forgotten.

[57:53] The scene where he's, like, answering all the different phones, and I forgot that a woman calls up and was like, I was assaulted.

[57:58] And he's like, uh, what do I do with this?

[58:00] And you're like, uh, no, you're a police officer, Jackie Chan.

[58:02] Like, come on, this is, show a little bit more respect to the victim.

[58:05] So, he's a, I would say he is not a cool guy.

[58:09] You know?

[58:10] But also, but it's also like, he's just, he's, he's, there's like an Archie Andrews quality about him.

[58:15] You know?

[58:15] Of like, like a goofball who always gets himself into trouble, but then he happens to be a martial arts master.

[58:21] And Archie Andrews is also low on the radness scale.

Stuart Wellington

[58:25] Unless it's like a CW version.

Elliott Kalan

[58:27] Yeah, yeah.

[58:27] Okay.

[58:27] Then it's like a thousand, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[58:29] Yeah.

[58:29] So, let's talk about badness.

[58:31] How bad is this guy?

[58:32] Ten.

[58:33] You put him in Ikea.

Elliott Kalan

[58:34] I got ten.

[58:35] Any item is a weapon of both hilarity and also bodily harm.

[58:40] In his hands, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[58:41] It depends on how you define badness.

[58:43] Like, he's not like a Terminator, like, like Lobo style badness.

[58:48] Like, I'm just gonna like murder everyone.

[58:50] He is very good at what he does.

[58:53] And what he does is, you know, hit people with like ladders and stuff.

Stuart Wellington

[58:58] I do think, uh, I do think, uh, I do think him versus the Terminator would end up being a pretty interesting fight.

Dan McCoy

[59:04] I mean, that would be great.

[59:05] I would love it.

[59:05] I mean, he's an amazing specimen.

[59:07] Uh, I'll give him an eight.

Elliott Kalan

[59:09] Okay.

[59:09] Honestly.

[59:09] I feel like just for the, just for the scene in Police Story that they stole for Tango and Cash, where he stops that bus and the bad guys fly out the window.

[59:17] I'm gonna give him a ten for that.

[59:18] Yeah.

[59:18] That's so great.

Stuart Wellington

[59:20] Okay.

[59:21] Give me a roll on the Lucky Dip.

Dan McCoy

[59:23] Uh, that's an 18.

[59:25] Ooh.

Stuart Wellington

[59:27] I think he'll do okay.

[59:29] If he was on the Hot Ones, how likely is he to be able to handle the spiciest wings?

[59:35] Oh, he's gonna be doing some like comedy takes.

Dan McCoy

[59:38] Yeah.

[59:38] But he's, he'll make it to the end.

[59:40] He'll get to the ten.

[59:40] He'll get a ten on that.

[59:42] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[59:42] I was gonna say the same thing.

[59:43] It's a ten, but he's gonna be doing a lot of like reactions that are very funny, but he's gonna eat those wings.

[59:47] He'll get through it.

[59:48] Yeah.

[59:49] Okay.

[59:49] Good job here.

[59:49] He's spilling milk all over him while he's trying to drink some of it.

[59:52] Yeah.

[59:54] And then, and then someone's gonna fight him and he's gonna use the wing to fight back.

[59:57] And because it's spicy, he sticks it in their mouth and they go, ah!

[59:59] And he knocks the mouth.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:00] Oh, I love it.

[1:00:01] Yeah.

[1:00:01] Somebody comes to give milk.

[1:00:02] Yeah.

[1:00:03] It's great.

[1:00:03] Okay.

[1:00:04] So we got one more for this episode.

[1:00:06] Let's wrap this up, Dan.

Dan McCoy

[1:00:07] Okay.

[1:00:08] That's an 18.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:09] Okay.

[1:00:10] We are, this is, this character has only appeared in one film, but it's an important one.

[1:00:14] That's right.

[1:00:15] From Con Air, we have Cameron Poe played by Nicolas Cage, an iconic action hero.

Dan McCoy

[1:00:22] Iconic action hair, I guess, at least.

[1:00:24] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:25] And accent.

[1:00:26] Yeah.

[1:00:27] I mean, for the hair and accent, I think I'll give him a seven.

Dan McCoy

[1:00:32] You know, there's not much else there to hang the radness on, but.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:38] I'm gonna give him a five just because of my residual love for Nicolas Cage rather than for that character himself.

[1:00:44] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:44] Now, how bad is Cameron Poe, guys?

[1:00:48] He does take on a whole plane full of convicts.

[1:00:52] The worst convicts in America, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:00:55] But I don't think he does it with a lot of baditude.

[1:00:59] So I'm gonna give him a six.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:00] Okay.

[1:01:00] I'm also gonna give him a five for kind of the same reasons.

[1:01:03] And he takes on a plane full of convicts, but the most dangerous one is loose at the end.

[1:01:08] Yeah.

[1:01:08] That's true.

[1:01:09] I've never liked that ending.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:11] For a comedic take.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:12] For a comedic take.

[1:01:13] There's a cheerful song.

[1:01:15] We have a character who we were already told earlier killed a girl and wore her head as a hat.

[1:01:19] And we're supposed to love it that he's free at the end.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:22] Yeah.

[1:01:22] It's a stand up and cheer moment of that year's Oscars.

[1:01:25] Okay.

[1:01:25] So let's give me a lucky dip, Dan.

[1:01:28] Yeah, we got a four.

[1:01:28] How's Cameron Poe doing?

[1:01:30] Okay.

[1:01:31] Okay.

[1:01:33] How likely, on a scale of one to ten, is Cameron Poe going to make a killer Halloween party playlist?

Dan McCoy

[1:01:41] I think that it's mostly gonna be Lynyrd Skynyrd on there.

[1:01:46] Yeah, that sucks.

[1:01:47] And Monster Mash.

[1:01:48] Yeah.

[1:01:49] That sucks.

[1:01:49] I'm gonna give him a three for this.

[1:01:50] Yeah, I'm gonna give him a two.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:51] Oh, man.

[1:01:52] Cameron Poe.

[1:01:53] Oh, I'm sorry, buddy.

[1:01:54] Sorry, Cameron Poe.

[1:01:55] Three and two.

[1:01:55] Oh, man.

[1:01:56] He got the exception.

[1:01:57] Knocked out.

[1:01:58] Knocked out.

[1:01:59] Okay.

[1:01:59] So that was our first ten.

[1:02:01] Thank you so much.

[1:02:02] This has been a Flophouse Mini.

[1:02:04] Stay tuned for our next mini, which will show up in two weeks, where we're gonna get the deciding votes on this one.

[1:02:10] We got ten more down the way.

[1:02:12] I'm Stuart Wellington.

[1:02:13] I'm joined, as always, by my guest hosts, Dan McCoy.

[1:02:17] Elliot Kalin guest hosts.

[1:02:18] Yep.

[1:02:19] This has been part of the Maximum Fun Podcast Network.

[1:02:22] You can check out other great shows there.

[1:02:24] This show has been produced by Alex Smith, who goes by Howell Daughty on various platforms.

[1:02:29] He's a musician.

[1:02:30] He's a podcast producer extraordinaire.

[1:02:33] Thank you so much, Alex.

[1:02:35] So, once again, for the Flophouse, thank you.

[1:02:38] Bye.

[1:02:40] Bye.

FH Mini 116 – The Definitive Action Hero Ranking Pt. 1

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