Ep.#438 - Trap, with Linda Holmes

[0:00] Hi, floppers, before we start this episode,

[0:02] I just wanted to remind you,

[0:03] we are in the middle of Flop TV season two.

[0:06] That's right, the one hour internet televised

[0:08] Flop House TV show is here for you

[0:11] the first Saturday of every month through February.

[0:14] Just go to theflophouse.simpletics.com

[0:17] and get your tickets or season pass

[0:19] for this all new Flop House TV stuff.

[0:22] We're covering movies we've never covered before,

[0:24] we've got video segments, it's amazing.

[0:27] Just go to theflophouse.simpletics.com

[0:29] for Flop TV season two.

[0:31] This time, it's personal.

[0:34] On this episode, we discuss Trap.

[0:37] Okay, guys, I'm not supposed to say anything.

[0:40] You know that guy, The Ripper?

[0:42] Well, this entire podcast is an elaborate trap

[0:47] because we heard he's gonna be on this podcast.

[0:50] This whole thing is a trap for The Ripper.

[0:53] Is he called The Ripper?

[0:55] It's a different guy.

[0:56] Oh, it's a different guy.

[0:57] It's a different guy, Stephen.

[0:58] It's a different guy, Stephen.

[1:20] Hey, everyone, and welcome to The Flop House.

[1:22] I'm Dan McCoy.

[1:23] I'm Stuart Wellington.

[1:24] I'm Elliot Kalen.

[1:26] And with us, we have, introduce yourself.

[1:29] Identify yourself.

[1:31] Yes, a host like Dan McCoy.

[1:33] You are welcome to guest.

[1:33] I absolutely shall.

[1:34] I am Linda Holmes, and I am proud to say

[1:39] that I asked The Flop House to cover this movie

[1:42] while still sitting in my seat at the theater.

[1:45] I composed an email,

[1:47] please cover this movie, and here I am.

[1:49] I'm sorry you had to wait so long

[1:51] between your initial screening

[1:52] and this magic moment of culmination.

[1:55] It's only gotten better with time.

[1:57] I'm glad you bring that up, though,

[1:58] because, so we always say,

[2:01] this is a podcast where we watch a bad movie

[2:03] and then we talk about it.

[2:05] Now, usually-

[2:06] Wait, Dan, I hate to interrupt.

[2:08] That was the smoothest, most professional segue

[2:10] you have ever done on the show,

[2:11] and I just want to recognize how beautifully done it is.

[2:13] So you wanted to trip it up.

[2:14] You wanted to smear gunk all over it.

[2:17] I didn't like that you're getting too good, Dan.

[2:18] Threatens me.

[2:20] But the thing is about this movie

[2:22] is that it was neither a commercial flop

[2:27] nor was it particularly a critical one.

[2:29] People were sort of all over the place,

[2:31] but it does inspire strong reactions.

[2:35] So we thought that it would be fun to talk about,

[2:38] even though maybe the pedants out there would be like,

[2:41] well, does this fall under your purview?

[2:45] And I say, I don't care.

[2:46] Is this in your mission statement?

[2:47] And we're like, I don't give a shit.

[2:49] You guys kind of do the Shyamalan thing.

[2:51] We do.

[2:52] We do movies that aren't necessarily entirely bad.

[2:54] That's one of my favorite 60s kind of go-go hippie movies,

[2:57] the Shyamalan thing.

[2:58] Yeah, yeah.

[3:00] But yeah, Dan is always very nervous

[3:01] that someone somewhere is getting mad

[3:02] about the movies we're choosing.

[3:04] There's something called-

[3:05] I want to tell that listener,

[3:07] you can go fuck yourself.

[3:08] No, you can tell, it's my fault.

[3:10] I mean, I was very eager.

[3:12] As I said, I was, the lights came up in the theater.

[3:15] I said to my friend who I was with, I said,

[3:17] I can't leave yet.

[3:18] I have to do one thing.

[3:19] I have to write this in now.

[3:21] And your friend's like, it's okay.

[3:22] I'm still getting over the experience.

[3:25] Yes.

[3:26] And I just want to say, when Linda talks, we listen.

[3:29] If you had watched, if you watched Susan Cain

[3:30] and you're like, I got to talk to the Flophouse boys

[3:32] about this, we'll do it.

[3:34] We'll cover that on the show.

[3:35] What a stinker.

[3:36] That's good to know.

[3:37] What a stinker.

[3:38] I mean, it was a box office flop,

[3:39] so we could technically cover it.

[3:40] It's true.

[3:41] This is good to know for the future.

[3:43] Yeah, well, this is, yeah, as you mentioned,

[3:46] we've covered a lot of Shyamalan films,

[3:49] even ones that are sort of part of his new,

[3:52] like, I don't know, half the internet loves it,

[3:55] half the internet hates it,

[3:56] rather than we've decided to hate him

[3:58] post his early successes period

[4:01] that were in there for a while.

[4:04] Who's doing the, is it you?

[4:06] Elliot's gonna be doing the summary I offered,

[4:08] but Elliot's like, I need this.

[4:10] I need this in my life right now.

[4:11] I need a win.

[4:12] Yeah, I said to Stuart, I don't have enough work

[4:14] to do right now.

[4:15] I'm not busy enough as it is.

[4:17] So to put a peek behind the curtain,

[4:19] I apologize for not jumping on that one.

[4:21] No, no, it's fine.

[4:22] In retrospect.

[4:23] No, this was a fine one to do,

[4:24] because it is not the most complicated plot.

[4:26] It was actually one of the easier ones to take notes

[4:28] while doing the dishes at midnight

[4:30] after I finished my night work,

[4:31] which comes after putting my kids to bed after my day work.

[4:34] Night work for Elliot is where he takes people to a home

[4:37] that I guess he's rented, and he murders them.

[4:39] I murder them, and I cut them up into little pieces

[4:41] and scatter them artfully.

[4:43] It's mainly implied, not seen.

[4:45] And I say, this is my design.

[4:46] If you miss anything, I really considered,

[4:48] I didn't do it,

[4:49] but I really considered bringing a little bell

[4:51] so that when you get to one of the many things

[4:53] that make no fucking sense in this movie,

[4:55] I would just go, ding, I got a question.

[4:58] Oh, I wish I'd done that.

[4:59] Linda saw this in the theater.

[5:01] Elliot saw this washing dishes.

[5:03] Dan, did you see this one in the theater?

[5:04] I saw this in the theater as well.

[5:07] I saw it with Audrey and a couple of our friends,

[5:10] and we all sort of-

[5:11] Oh yeah, name them.

[5:14] John and Mary.

[5:15] Hi, John and Mary.

[5:16] Story checks out, story checks out.

[5:17] And I watched it-

[5:19] It's made up.

[5:20] I watched it in a king-sized bed on a laptop

[5:22] at a resort that my wife and I were staying at

[5:25] for a recent wedding anniversary.

[5:27] 13-year wedding anniversary.

[5:29] Congratulations.

[5:30] Was it a waterbed?

[5:30] Was it heart-shaped?

[5:32] I mean, it got pretty wet.

[5:35] Okay.

[5:35] Oh.

[5:36] All right.

[5:37] Let's move on.

[5:38] You walked into it, dude.

[5:39] Yeah, you called for it, Dan.

[5:41] Dan, you can't say Beetlejuice two and a half times

[5:43] and then get mad when you ask for orange juice

[5:45] and Beetlejuice shows up.

[5:46] That's true.

[5:47] Like the old saying says.

[5:50] That's the old saying, yeah.

[5:51] So let's talk about Trap Show.

[5:53] It definitely falls in the line

[5:54] of M. Night Shyamalan's recent movies,

[5:55] which are, I can't tell if I don't,

[5:59] if I think they would be better as episodes of a TV show,

[6:02] like an M. Night Shyamalan anthology TV series,

[6:04] or if I like that he's making these kind of quick,

[6:08] almost disposable kind of thrillers

[6:11] that hearken back to what thriller movies used to be,

[6:13] where it was like, watch this for 85, 95 minutes,

[6:16] have an okay, silly time, and then go do something else.

[6:19] You know, I can't tell whether I like it or not.

[6:21] How do you guys feel about it?

[6:22] About that format that he's been kind of doing?

[6:24] I hadn't thought about it, but now that you say it,

[6:26] I do think that part of my enjoyment,

[6:28] like, you know, I cackled my way through this.

[6:30] I had my problems with some of the details,

[6:33] but I had fun, and I think it probably is partly

[6:37] because you don't get movies like this that much anymore

[6:40] at this sort of particular level or pitch.

[6:44] I think that's kind of what made me angry

[6:47] about it a little bit, but if I paid for a ticket

[6:50] to see this movie, I'd be like, uh, where's my movie?

[6:54] And I don't want to spoil my final judgment,

[6:57] so I won't say too much, but I think that like the,

[6:59] I think he is definitely one of the few people

[7:04] who has the talent, the juice, and the pull

[7:08] to get this, to get like thrillers

[7:11] for grownups made right now,

[7:13] and I kind of want him to make them good,

[7:16] and that's where I ran into trouble with this one, you know?

[7:21] That's the thing, Elliot.

[7:22] If I had paid for a ticket for this,

[7:23] I would also have been mad.

[7:24] I would have walked up to the usher,

[7:25] and I would have said, sir, I paid for an entire seat

[7:28] to this movie, but I only used the edge.

[7:30] Can I return some of this ticket?

[7:32] Can I get the unused portion refunded to me?

[7:34] You wouldn't have gone up to the usher

[7:35] and said, excuse me, usher, can you tell me

[7:38] where you keep all the money

[7:39] and where the key to the safe is?

[7:42] Because he would tell you.

[7:43] And as we've established on the podcast,

[7:44] the usher would have said, yeah, yeah, you know?

[7:47] I can't believe Elliot knows an usher song.

[7:49] Just the one.

[7:50] Okay, so let's talk about,

[7:53] let's talk about, me, a guy who now fuels his night work

[7:56] by just listening to Oingo Boingo's discography

[7:58] from the first album to as far down as I get in it?

[8:01] Yeah, sure.

[8:02] And listening to dad rock night moves

[8:04] while you were doing your night work.

[8:07] Not exactly, but sure.

[8:08] So, okay, Trap.

[8:10] What happens in this movie?

[8:11] Well, we're introduced to two main characters

[8:14] who are going to be the main stars

[8:15] until a third character abruptly becomes

[8:17] the hero of the movie.

[8:18] Like two thirds of the way in.

[8:21] Riley, she's a teenage girl.

[8:23] She loves this singer, Lady Raven,

[8:25] who's kind of like Taylor Swift

[8:27] with like a little touch of some, I don't know,

[8:30] some kind of Lady Gaga costume.

[8:31] Yeah, she's got a little more like juice than Taylor Swift.

[8:34] I guess so.

[8:35] What do you mean juice?

[8:37] I think she's less popular than Taylor.

[8:38] But I mean, she, yeah, arguably,

[8:41] although I don't see the butcher going to Taylor Swift.

[8:44] I mean, she's like, you know,

[8:46] there's a little more R&B to it, a little less country.

[8:48] Oh, I don't mean, I don't mean, that's true.

[8:49] I don't necessarily mean the music style.

[8:51] I mean more in like the showcase,

[8:53] the way the concert is put together.

[8:53] She's a pop star, yeah.

[8:54] She's a pop star.

[8:55] So Riley loves this pop star, Lady Raven,

[8:57] who is played by M. Night Shyamalan's daughter, Selica.

[8:59] And she's being taken by her dad, Cooper,

[9:02] played by Josh Hartnett, to a concert.

[9:04] They're going to see Lady Raven.

[9:05] It's going to be amazing.

[9:06] This is a daddy-daughter bonding experience.

[9:08] Riley has been depressed

[9:09] because her old friends are excluding her.

[9:12] And so now he's trying to make it up for her.

[9:14] And I will say this,

[9:15] this movie started winning me over right away

[9:17] because a few weeks ago,

[9:18] I took my older son, Sammy,

[9:19] to see Judas Priest over at the YouTube Theater in LA.

[9:22] And the experience we had going to that concert

[9:25] was so similar to how this starts

[9:28] in a way that I could really relate to

[9:29] until the part with Josh Hartnett's murderous secret,

[9:34] until that, but until the trap aspect.

[9:35] Good job keeping your own murderous secret, Elliot.

[9:38] Your dark passenger.

[9:39] There were so many moments of a parent

[9:41] trying to connect with their kid

[9:43] and looking for the seats and trying to,

[9:45] and what's our safety plan if we get separate.

[9:47] That, I was like,

[9:48] and being excited that your kid is getting into this music.

[9:50] It's a, so I really related to that,

[9:53] but I didn't relate to anything else, Edwards,

[9:54] during the opening act.

[9:55] I think the thing that's the most fun to me

[9:57] about the very beginning of the movie

[9:58] is that the thing that

[10:00] The first thing that makes no sense happens like 30 seconds into the movie

[10:04] when they park in a surface lot down the street from the arena with no difficulty

[10:11] whatsoever and go strolling in there. Maybe like classic Philly. You get the

[10:17] apparently ADR line from the daughter about I'm so glad she added an afternoon

[10:22] show after she sold out. Did you know how arena artists add a matinee?

[10:27] They'll do two massive concerts. Or they're elderly fans.

[10:33] There's a lot of the question as we'll find out later this whole concert is a trap.

[10:36] Well there's a lot of questions I have about like at what stage did this become a trap and

[10:41] how much of it is this trap? Somehow it was organized to trap someone but also

[10:45] they set it up as a trap because he was attending the concert. No no no no no no my friend.

[10:50] It was yeah it was not organized to be a trap. They knew he was going to be there.

[10:56] No no that's the explanation but then there are other details that make it seem as if this whole

[11:01] thing has been set up as a trap the way that um because the idea for it came from that story

[11:05] years ago about they wanted to catch a bunch of people with outstanding warrants so they

[11:09] mailed letters to their houses being like hey you won a boat or something like that.

[11:12] Yeah we showed up about that yeah and that was my problem with the trailer because when I saw

[11:16] the trailer for this I'm like okay wait the police have set up a concert just for the purposes of

[11:25] being a trap where they're like let's get this guy in a place where there's the most people possible

[11:31] that he could either disappear into or we could accidentally shoot or whatever and like it's not

[11:37] it is not that I know I know it is unclear but like I think that the movie is trying to indicate.

[11:42] I sincerely hope that Eric Adams did not watch this movie because I feel like it would give him

[11:46] good it would give him ideas yeah not good ideas. Billy Joel you got to come back to the garden

[11:52] there's a turnstile jumper we need to catch got a lot of tax cheats and I mean if it was if it was

[11:57] Eric Adams's New York then yeah the police would have shot 70 to 50 70 to 100 people at least yeah

[12:03] a trash can robot would have shot 100 people it is sad though that Riley you know after going through

[12:10] all those inside out emotion troubles is gonna have to deal with so much now learning what she

[12:15] does about her swish swish Dan perfect nothing but net on that on that cross reference so during

[12:22] the opening act which this was also a realistic thing based on my experience is that during the

[12:27] opening act the theater is still half full and nobody's paying attention at all during the

[12:31] opening act your dad notices there's a lot of police officers in the venue and they seem to be

[12:35] seemingly leading seemingly random men out of the main room and there's a brief conversation

[12:40] between Cooper and Riley about whether the word crispy can be used to mean good and how do you do

[12:44] that I don't I'm not up on teenager slang my kids are not old enough have you heard guys heard

[12:48] crispy or is that a is that a shamal on coining Dan's going to his bookmarks pulling up urban

[12:54] dictionary I don't know what let's see whether it was put in after trap swept the nation I'll

[13:03] let you do your detective work anyway yeah Cooper he leaves use the bathroom and while he's in the

[13:07] bathroom stall he used his phone to check a live video feed of a man imprisoned in a basement this

[13:12] is our this should be our first tip-off that Cooper this is this is where my experience at

[13:18] the at the concert and his experience begin to diverge yeah yeah yeah now okay so this uh this

[13:25] says here's Dan McCoy with a crispy update this gives a definition that I would have assumed was

[13:31] the definition for crispy rather than what they say in the movie which is essentially just cool

[13:36] here it says neat clean trim fashionable with it you know good looking crispy yeah that makes

[13:43] more sense to me than it's more like uh what we get yeah yeah yeah like that does make sense

[13:48] yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean it's true you one of the things that I think is amazing about this

[13:53] movie is they put it right in the trailer that he's the murderer which I thought was

[13:58] somewhat odd like maybe you could have let that be a thing that we discover after we get there

[14:02] but they put it in the trailer so you're just kind of waiting if you have seen the trailer

[14:06] you're just kind of waiting for him to reveal that he's the that he's the murderer so yeah

[14:09] that's when he goes in there he looks on his phone uh you know they say women take a long time in the

[14:15] bathroom hostage this is what leads to long lines at arenas normally I'm with you that trailers

[14:24] give away too much but this is the this is the essential premise I don't know what you would

[14:27] sell this on I think you have to sell it as there's a dad and a daughter at a stadium and something's

[14:32] going or at a concert something's going wrong and he's trying to get out and they don't know

[14:36] what it is and you would leave it as a twit but I don't know if that's enough to people get people

[14:39] I think this whole thing yeah I think this whole thing works for me like going in I knew what the

[14:43] premise was and I was still on board like I was hooting and hollering the whole time not having

[14:48] seen the trailer I did not know what the premise was and so I will say when he looked at it I was

[14:52] like is this guy a murderer what's going on here or does he just have weird taste in youtube

[14:58] videos just like a red rumor or something we watched it years and years ago we watched that

[15:02] movie untraceable I think it was where the guy was live streaming his murders of people so there

[15:06] was part of this like wait is that so did he do that or is he watching some other thing that someone

[15:10] else is doing but it's answered pretty quickly anyway while washing his hands of the sink he has

[15:13] a vision of an older woman standing there kind of glaring at him uh that'll happen a couple more

[15:18] times turns out it's his mom cooper runs into another mom the mom of one of riley's old friends

[15:23] and they have an awkward conversation about getting these kids back together uh I think that

[15:27] this performance from this lady this is like to me I'm not you know I have no children but this

[15:32] this plays as not that you know of realistically you know like a lady who maybe you wouldn't want

[15:39] to encounter or hang out with other than the fact that you know your your kids are friends

[15:45] you know she's got like this weird energy she has very good weird energy I don't know if they did

[15:50] anything with this part of the story but I but she definitely is yeah weird energy I like how this is

[15:56] shot too like it's a lot of like straight on and close-ups of both their faces like an

[16:01] Errol Morris movie yeah and I will say I gotta give I gotta you know I have I've been mean to

[16:05] Josh Hartnett in the past he is the star of one of the worst movies I've ever seen 40 days and 40

[16:10] nights but I gotta say he brings it and he's hot like he's a hot dad I agree I have I've liked him

[16:15] a lot more in recent years I think he has aged into a an interesting actor I think if you are

[16:22] if you are like a young hunk actor and you stick it out in the business long enough you will

[16:27] acquire the layers that make you into a more interesting actor like that I feel like it's

[16:31] what Colin Farrell's of this world yeah in a way yeah and I feel like what people he's not exactly

[16:38] the same kind of young hunk but like with Arnold Schwarzenegger where people like you know 30 years

[16:42] later like he's aged into like a like a pretty good actor and I would be like I hope so he's

[16:46] been doing it for a long time but like yeah I liked Josh Hartnett even as a young guy though

[16:53] like Josh Hartnett is one of the is one of the uh the people who I associate with the faculty

[16:58] yeah okay I think is like a super fun weird really stylish movie that I super like um

[17:07] uh and and you know was just people were just reminiscing not long ago with

[17:12] Bebe Neuwirth uh on social media somewhere about her being in that movie and and that's one that I

[17:17] really like and I think he's always been like an interesting kind of like weird sleazeball and

[17:22] yeah I like I think he's good in this I think he's feeling is there's this there's a certain

[17:26] sleaziness to a lot underlying a lot of those kind of young hunk guys and when they get older

[17:30] they can play it up in a way that is that stops being a weird subtext that you yeah that is

[17:35] creepy and becomes like oh this is a flavor of this character yeah yeah I'm glad you brought up

[17:40] uh the faculty because that is the outlier for me that is the early Hartnett performance I really

[17:44] enjoy and uh he brings a lot of juice to that and it's a fun movie I remember he's got that hair

[17:50] when uh you know like John when we were at the Daily Show I was like yeah he'd be like down on

[17:56] the faculty he'd like bring it up to like you know piss on it and be like what are you talking

[18:00] about John that's a pretty good movie certainly of your filmography it's one of the stronger ones

[18:05] I think that's why he brought it up is because it's one of the ones so that it's not as bad as

[18:10] some of the other ones so you can like dump on it without people being like yeah that sucked you

[18:14] know dancing about architect or playing by heart whatever yeah that's yeah you know uh you know and

[18:18] I think like I think Hartnett is one of the people and this happens a lot to women but it also happens

[18:24] to young guys who are actors is that they sort of get trapped when they're very good looking and

[18:29] they're young they get trapped they get trapped at a concert by the police yeah they get trapped in

[18:34] a kind of like a pretty uh normal person thing and if their talent is that they're odd which is

[18:42] just kind of what his thing is it can take a while for that to sort of open up um and as they get

[18:50] older they sort of you know grow into interesting uh you know there are just some people who are

[18:56] like character actors with leading man face and that's that can be something that you know it

[19:01] takes a while to get over yeah uh it's true well and and I and I like him in this movie I feel like

[19:07] he does do a good job of balancing he's although the dad with a secret and the killer with the dad

[19:12] inside you know what I will say is like I I find him very compelling and I enjoy the performance

[19:18] but he is absolutely acting like a maniac from early in this movie like the idea that

[19:24] one that there's something off but that's the thing but that's the thing but Dan think about

[19:28] the dads you've known they all feel like there's something weird about them dads are weird like

[19:33] there's something weird about them they don't know he's a dad like like he's had a dad at a concert

[19:39] like I I feel like most of the dads I know are like I got two hours alone I'm gonna pound seven

[19:45] beers because dads there's something about dads are all faking it they're all making it up as they

[19:52] go along they're all faking it and as the generations continue they get worse and worse at

[19:57] faking it because it's harder to just yell at people and hit them

[20:00] when they don't listen to you and so I so I buy him as as that if you have possible Elliot claims

[20:07] I guess that's true like you'd be like Riley's dad's kind of weird but you wouldn't be like

[20:11] this guy is a murderer this is the butcher I thought dads were like weird when um you know

[20:17] I was a kid now even though I'm not technically one I'm of dad age and I look around at the dad

[20:23] so I'm like yeah this checks out like and yeah Hartnett still like seems like when he's like

[20:28] later on suggesting like hey let's go underneath the stage later when he's panicking

[20:34] weirdest dad's oh I love it so much anyway we'll get to it why don't we go get waffles

[20:38] in that waffle stand and it's like you took me to the concert my favorite musician why are you

[20:41] telling me to leave now yeah but everyone is like milling around there's like eight

[20:45] intermissions in this thing and everybody seems to just be like hanging out in that

[20:49] that is the weirdest thing that is one of the things that kept striking me as I'm like Riley's

[20:52] leaving her seat a lot during the concert like are they taking breaks like what's because I

[20:56] I'll tell you again my last concert experience was going to see Judas Priest the minute our

[21:00] butts were in the seat we didn't get up again for the for two three hours not even to stand

[21:04] up and cheer that's fucked up that's true we did stand up and cheer that's they're putting on a

[21:07] show for you flash entered the speed zone um so uh we did stand up and cheer that's true and

[21:16] Sammy would be like sit down stop singing along um stop dancing really cool and you're like I can't

[21:22] help it I got the rhythm in me yeah on stage uh Lady Raven gives a speech about the importance of

[21:28] forgiving people and meanwhile there's a SWAT and FBI convoy that arrives outside the venue

[21:33] with an F an older lady FBI profiler who I was very excited to learn when the credits came up

[21:37] was Hayley Mills I was like she's what from Parent Trap to M. Night Shyamalan's Trap Hayley Mills can

[21:42] do it all yeah no this is this is I mean I enjoy his uh casting of her both for the fact that like

[21:50] you know like she's she's still great but also like she's a master trapper obviously like a dumb

[21:56] joke this is what I this is what I asked when we covered this on on our show I was like the thing I

[22:04] don't know about M. Night Shyamalan is he the kind of funny who cast her as a pun right yeah and I

[22:11] guess this movie is a Parent Trap it is exactly I said to my friend I was at this at this movie

[22:17] with I said at the end of it I said if she had at the end of the movie looked at the camera winked

[22:23] and said now that's a Parent Trap I would have personally campaigned this movie for best picture

[22:29] I would have gone a cheer moment I would have gone to the little MPA office in D.C. and I would have

[22:35] walked around with a little picket sign from now until Oscar nominations yeah trap for best picture

[22:41] Jack Valente give me a meeting I love Hayley Mills but there's no way that anyone's thinking

[22:47] of casting her if not for the you never know you never know so probably not but I'll I'll

[22:52] hearken back to an experience something I witnessed in person there was a screening of

[22:56] thought of uh Frost Nixon once where Ron Howard and the writer and whoever were talking afterwards

[23:02] and John Waters was in the audience and John Water they go there's a question answer section

[23:06] and John Waters gets up and he goes I thought it was so amazing that you cast the little girl from

[23:10] the Bad Seed as Pat Nixon like what a great touch and Ron Howard was like oh oh oh was she a child

[23:17] actress he had no idea he didn't know have any he had no idea about it and I was like yeah I love

[23:20] that John Waters picked up on that instantly but that's a different story situation though or

[23:25] similarly in this there's the story that um Bob Odenkirk tells about being in the paper with uh

[23:29] or no the post whatever that movie is with David Cross where Steven Spielberg did not know that

[23:33] these two guys had starred in a TV show together for years and when he found out he was worried

[23:38] that it was going to throw the movie off like one of the I guess one of the other people working

[23:42] out was like this is amazing a Mr. Show reunion and Steven Spielberg was like what what are you

[23:46] talking about so something to level up to the director show uh bring me this Mr. Show bring

[23:52] in Michael Showalter and you know because through a mistake you know I this character though is very

[23:57] funny to me because she doesn't do any particularly good like uh serial killer finding during the

[24:04] course of the movie she exists only so that once he steals a walkie-talkie she can provide him with

[24:12] useful information immediately every time he shut turns it on it's like when in TV shows where like

[24:17] there's always a news thing related to the story yeah turn it on they're like tonight in relevant

[24:23] news to our plot I love it like this is this is the closest I think a movie will ever get to

[24:30] capturing the feeling of playing one of the hitman games because there's specifically a

[24:34] hitman level where you like get a walkie-talkie and you're just hearing the guys be like where

[24:38] is this guy he's a ghost you're like yeah I am a fucking ghost except here it's more like my

[24:43] favorite moment of those is when he's about to pull the fire alarm to have a diversion and she's

[24:46] like he will most likely now try for diversion perhaps pulling a fire alarm and then he pulls

[24:51] his hand away but but again I do think that like I think that these are chips I think these are

[24:59] here's the backstory of inventing is that the butcher killed her identical

[25:02] sister and that's why she wants revenge yeah um as much as like there are things in here that I

[25:08] think are just sort of like uh clumsy in a way that I think maybe should have been addressed I

[25:14] think a lot of this is like devilish like on the screenwriting part I think perhaps yeah so Cooper's

[25:23] getting suspicious he sees the police taking away more guys he goes he goes Riley I'm gonna we're

[25:27] gonna get you that shirt you wanted and he uses that opportunity to befriend a merchandise vendor

[25:32] who is very talkative within moments this guy has revealed to him that the whole concert is

[25:37] used is being used as a trap to catch a notorious serial killer called the butcher the only way out

[25:42] past the police is to go backstage and the people who work there have a code word and Cooper is so

[25:47] clearly the butcher like it's so I mean the audience I don't think it's supposed to be a

[25:50] oh is he really but even to this merch vendor it should be clear that Cooper is the guy that

[25:54] they want there are two things that like boggle my mind in this scene number one how quickly they

[26:00] become the best of friends based on Josh Hartnett being like why don't we let this other girl have

[26:05] this t-shirt honey we have she was waiting longer and you know you're a great man tell you everything

[26:11] perhaps the greatest man in history and then also like just like seconds later Hartnett's like come

[26:16] over here it's like to get information and this busy vendor in the middle of this busy like

[26:22] of customers yeah yeah I'm like yeah I will come over and chat with you about the police

[26:27] plans Mr. Hartnett yeah I feel like if you knew they were looking for a serial killer and some

[26:33] guy was like so tell me who they're looking for and what's the code word no way you'd be

[26:39] you'd be tipped off by that to defend the character Dan Dan just portrayed him as saying

[26:42] Mr. Hartnett which he does not do that would be a total goof that would be within the IMDB

[26:47] goof section right away as Cooper Hartnett which they don't say that it's not yeah I wish that I

[26:52] wish that like uh that Cooper like stole like a Dragon Ball Z or like a Spider-Man hoodie off

[26:58] somebody and then the guy's like oh I love Dragon Ball Z oh we're best friends now yeah yeah that'd

[27:03] be great that's just the kid version of trap so uh they he walks Riley around he's looking at

[27:07] different parts of the venue to try to get an exit he can't find his way out even after he

[27:10] pushes a woman down the stairs as a distraction totally unnecessary love it totally unnecessary

[27:17] nothing to do with anything it also scrambling and trying to find a way out is so funny so good

[27:25] it it doesn't work so spectacularly that like I had to talk to my friends afterwards I'm like

[27:31] what was the plan there and like well they thought that the police would like leave the

[27:34] door and help the woman and he could slip through it it's so casual that he's just like

[27:39] wanders by like I don't know like a lady just done it out of frustration just like

[27:43] uh but so the movie is the one problem I have with this movie is that it does lean into the

[27:49] stereotype that serial killers are masterminds who are master planners and great at scoping

[27:54] out situations when in reality serial killers are losers they're losers they can't they can't

[27:59] exist in normal society and they act out their their obsessions and things in ways that are

[28:04] they are ashamed of you know there's no serial killer who's really like a super who's Hannibal

[28:08] but and if there's a serial killer listening to this don't use this as a fuel to go hunt down

[28:13] Ellie no no just use it as fuel to look at yourself be like is this who I really want to be

[28:18] but uh but he is but he's not so good that he doesn't keep kind of doing things for no reason

[28:22] or getting stuck which I do kind of like he's the Ethan Hunt of of serial killers where he's like

[28:27] he's he's he'll he'll get out but he's gonna like hit his head a bunch of times while doing yeah

[28:31] if they're good at something it is masking it is pretending to be normal and using their like

[28:38] nondescript quality to evade capture simply because like you know like most uh most

[28:45] detectives aren't equipped to yes Josh Hartnett just blends in yeah that's just part of being

[28:52] a dad though is the mask of normality that then hides the weirdness underneath that peaks out

[28:57] but uh so he's he's looking around oh he has another plan that comes up they go back to their

[29:01] seats later Raven reveals her first surprise guest Parker Lewis who's played by which it's

[29:06] some it's a musician I can't remember which one is and uh he rises up through a trap door near

[29:10] Cooper's seats and that trap door stays open for a while trap and Cooper just goes like hey Riley

[29:15] let's go down that trap door don't you want to see underneath the stage where all the machines are

[29:19] and she's like that's crazy he is staring at that that trap door like it turned into like a

[29:24] fucking turkey leg or some shit and he's trying to sell this to her like with such like mania like

[29:30] wouldn't that be fun yeah if I get if I get really crazy wouldn't this crazy idea seem less crazy

[29:36] by comparison uh so and she says no understandably the trap door closes up that is the kind of thing

[29:41] I could see saying to my son being like hey should we go in there and I'm going no and then it's not

[29:44] doing it um Cooper goes back to the merchandise guy and the guy's like I gotta get some more

[29:49] more sizes of shirt and he goes I'll help you so he just walks with him into the stock room to get

[29:54] more shirts and the merchandise guy it turns out is obsessed with the butcher he's been following

[29:57] this guy's career he loves him

[30:00] He gives Cooper the secret password employees use to get past the cops, which is what, Hamilton?

[30:04] He's gonna flip when he sees the news later, by the way.

[30:08] Did you see the mid-credits scene, Stuart?

[30:12] No!

[30:16] Stuart, the mid-credits scene is literally him flipping when he sees the news.

[30:20] This is amazing. What an amazing payoff.

[30:24] What a Shyamalan-style twist. I should have held off until then.

[30:28] And Cooper steals the vendor's keycard.

[30:32] He uses it to get into a private area. Uh-oh, that's where the cops are being debriefed.

[30:36] He manages to kind of talk his way through it like he's an employee.

[30:40] He snags the aforementioned police radio so he can monitor their movements.

[30:44] I want to know, is it typically, do you think, the case

[30:48] that the t-shirt vendor's ID will get you into the secret FBI briefing

[30:52] area, given that I'm pretty sure

[30:56] that when I have participated in live events at the Bell House, security

[31:00] is tighter than that, as far as getting around to different

[31:04] parts of the arena. I think the arena would have

[31:08] some areas where you could do an FBI briefing

[31:12] where every vendor, everybody with an ID

[31:16] because they sell french fries, could not walk into the FBI briefing.

[31:20] I would imagine you would have coded badges because you don't want the merch vendors going back to

[31:24] Lady Raven's green room. Also, there's no photo on the badge,

[31:28] which I think is highly unlikely.

[31:32] Actually, that's not true. I was just about to say my keycard to the offices I'm working in now,

[31:36] but that does have my photo on it. That's true. I will say, this appears to be

[31:40] some kind of break room. I buy the general idea that he

[31:44] could get into this room. Do I buy the idea that in the middle of

[31:48] a briefing, they would be letting people do that?

[31:52] He walks through the crowd of people.

[31:56] A cop is like, hey, where's the sugar? He's like, I'll give you

[32:00] my sugar from the coffee maker. He just knows where it is. He finds it by chance.

[32:04] There's a chance that all the vendors are union, and they're like, I do not

[32:08] want to mess with that union. Those guys do not give a shit.

[32:12] That's very possible. I actually missed the moment

[32:16] where he gets the police radio. Do they show him taking it, or does he just walk out of the room?

[32:20] They show him taking it. It's very quick. He walks by and picks it up.

[32:24] You've got to understand, Ellie, I've seen this movie several times.

[32:28] I'm going to keep relying on you then.

[32:32] Cooper gets stopped again by Riley's old friend's

[32:36] mom, who is very agitated. She's like, I've got a dark side, Buster. Don't mess with

[32:40] me. Our kids have to get back together. I have to say, he does a great

[32:44] job of calming her down in order to de-escalate the situation.

[32:48] He listens to the police radio, and he starts hearing Haley Mills, the FBI profiler,

[32:52] describing a suspect who looks like him. She predicts his actions, which again, as we said,

[32:56] dissuades him from setting off a fire alarm. He's about to do it, and she's like, look for the guy who's about

[33:00] to set off the fire alarm. He's like, uh, and pulls his hand away.

[33:04] She describes him as a man that has a tattoo. He looks down, and he has a tattoo.

[33:08] I'm like, nothing else about this guy would make me believe he would have a tattoo.

[33:12] He's so particular.

[33:16] He takes someone else's Lady Raven snap bracelet and just puts it around his wrist.

[33:20] The tattoo is very important because it is the only

[33:24] the main question. This is another ding, I got a question.

[33:28] There's all these cops

[33:32] standing around. Nobody's allowed out. If you try to leave,

[33:36] they're going to stop you. They will shoot you.

[33:40] When they stop you, what are they going to do? Say,

[33:44] are you the butcher? Because their description, typically in a movie like this,

[33:48] I got you, Dan. I have to finish my mini rant.

[33:52] Dan, you're a good host.

[33:56] We're just sparring

[34:00] nicely. It's fine. We're being held hostage by Into the Butcher Holmes.

[34:04] Please send help. That's right. Nobody's leaving.

[34:08] They want to stop everybody,

[34:12] but you see all the time in a traditional thriller,

[34:16] they'd be like, we're looking for a guy. He's about this tall.

[34:20] He's got this color hair. He's wearing this. Here, they cut all of that

[34:24] after we're looking for a guy. Basically, the description is guy.

[34:28] If he just went

[34:32] through the security on the way out, and he just said,

[34:36] are you the butcher? He said, no, I'm not the butcher.

[34:40] What on earth are they going to say next?

[34:44] The butcher says, what?

[34:48] Can we look at your phone, sir, and see if you have an app that allows you to remotely release

[34:52] carbon monoxide to kill your victim?

[34:56] Because he has this postage stamp-sized tattoo on his wrist,

[35:00] the thinking is supposed to be, if they were to stop him,

[35:04] they would see the postage stamp-sized tattoo on his wrist, despite the fact that

[35:08] what they say is surveillance footage of

[35:12] people in the general area of where the bodies were found,

[35:16] not good evidence of anything, showed a variety

[35:20] of different guys, one of whom has some sort of tattoo

[35:24] on his arm of an animal of some sort.

[35:28] I would like to know what kind of surveillance

[35:32] footage tells you nothing about any of these guys

[35:36] except a white guy in his 30s, and yet

[35:40] can identify a postage stamp-sized tattoo

[35:44] on their wrist that is later going to be covered up

[35:48] by a snap bracelet. Now I'm done.

[35:52] Those cops just have to have the best goth hacker on their team to enhance the

[35:56] shit out of that footage. I was going to say, I don't want to mansplain to you, Linda, but two words, computer

[36:00] and hands.

[36:04] I was not going to spar, I was not going to disagree, I just was

[36:08] overeager in my desire to agree, because

[36:12] the thing is, maybe if they had one suspect, maybe if they had

[36:16] one suspect and they were like, this guy has a wrist tattoo, you could

[36:20] be like, okay, we have two points of data now, he's going to

[36:24] be at this concert, he has a wrist tattoo, we will

[36:28] clock everyone who has those two things, and then

[36:32] do further surveillance, do whatever, that's a starting point.

[36:36] But the fact is, we learn later on, they have multiple

[36:40] descriptions of multiple people who could be the butcher. It's either an old man

[36:44] or a young man, it's either a black guy or a white guy, it's either a guy with red hair

[36:48] or a guy with dark hair, it's one of those. So you're right,

[36:52] this whole movie should just be like Josh Hartnett being like, ha ha ha, they've got nothing on me, we're

[36:56] going to watch the concert and then we're just going to walk the fuck out of the concert.

[37:00] What they should have had is they say, we have a witness, and he doesn't

[37:04] know that, or something like that, he learns that.

[37:08] See how you came up with something in 30 seconds, Elliot, that made

[37:12] this make somewhat more sense? You see how that minimal amount

[37:16] of effort paid off for us? Yeah, that's why they call me second draft

[37:20] Kalen, because if they said that they had a witness, then he would also be

[37:24] like, I'm going to find that witness to murder him. Yeah, that would be a second

[37:28] quest. Yeah, that's a side quest. But then the movie might be more than

[37:32] 87 minutes or whatever it is. That's true though.

[37:36] Sorry, it's 105 minutes, that can't be right. Anyway, then the movie

[37:40] would be longer. It's pretty trim right now. Actually, I kind of would have loved

[37:44] that, if they had a witness there and he doesn't have to just escape, he has to get to the witness and kill him

[37:48] without anybody seeing. See, we're making a Hitman level right now.

[37:52] Yeah, this is a Hitman level.

[37:56] Riley's like, you're acting weird, Dad. And Cooper's like, let me be weird

[38:00] some more and go look for more exits. He sees an exit. He manages

[38:04] to distract everyone by creating an explosion in a deep fat fryer. He throws

[38:08] cans of something in a deep fat fryer, which explodes. Bottles of oil.

[38:12] It explodes and horribly burns a woman working

[38:16] there. He snags an apron, snags a hat, and he goes out the door.

[38:20] Uh-oh, he's on the roof. This is not any way he's going to be able to escape unless he's...

[38:24] What's the Hitman's name? Agent 42? Agent 47, yeah.

[38:28] Then some SWAT cops show up. He convinces them he's a snack bar employee.

[38:32] He has another vision of the old woman from earlier. What could that possibly mean?

[38:36] Riley, again, is like, Dad, you're acting weird, but she can't wait to tell him.

[38:40] Every concert, Lady Raven picks one lucky girl from the audience

[38:44] and that's her dreamer girl. She gets invited on stage to dance

[38:48] with Lady Raven and she gets to go backstage. Here's the word

[38:52] backstage. He goes, that's what I have to do. I love it. I was so excited

[38:56] when the misinformation is revealed. He finds a Lady Raven employee

[39:00] who is played by Amnite himself.

[39:04] It's not an employee. He goes, you work

[39:08] for Lady Raven? He goes, actually, I'm her uncle. Her mother's brother.

[39:12] I think it's so funny that he says her mother's brother. It's so unnecessary. Who cares?

[39:16] It's just like in signs when John Leguizamo goes, it looks like it's going to the town of Princeton.

[39:20] You could just say Princeton. That's in The Happening, isn't it?

[39:24] It's in The Happening.

[39:28] I think Trap is his most The Happening movie since The Happening.

[39:32] That is my feeling. I don't know. There's a little movie called Old.

[39:36] I will say, I think it's interesting. This movie, to me,

[39:40] begins getting dramatically worse around the time you actually

[39:44] see him. It becomes much worse.

[39:48] I also think it's funny that in real life, he is the actress who's playing

[39:52] Lady Raven's dad. But in the movie, he is her uncle. If I was her,

[39:56] I'd be like, would you rather be my uncle than my dad?

[40:00] What are you saying?

[40:01] So he's like, and Cooper's like,

[40:02] hey, that's my daughter, Riley.

[40:04] She just recovered from leukemia.

[40:06] That's why we're coming to the concert.

[40:07] Lady Raven's music is what got her through it.

[40:09] So I just want to say thank you.

[40:10] Please tell Lady Raven, I said, thank you.

[40:12] And M. Night wanted to be,

[40:14] this uncle wanted to be a good guy.

[40:15] He goes, how would you like to be the dreamer girl?

[40:18] And the leukemia never comes up.

[40:19] Oh man, that uncle, me?

[40:20] That uncle's gonna get fucking dragged at Thanksgiving.

[40:23] Yes, and the leukemia never comes up in conversation.

[40:26] So there's never a moment where Riley has to be like, what?

[40:28] But anyway, she goes on stage.

[40:29] She dances with Lady Raven to the dismay of her ex-friends

[40:32] in the audience who are so pissed.

[40:34] The friend's mom is also pissed.

[40:36] I love it.

[40:36] And she's like, you're horrible.

[40:37] You're a horrible girl.

[40:38] I love it, it's so awesome.

[40:39] I love that.

[40:40] It's such a Disney Channel revenge.

[40:42] But at this point, Cooper is both the butcher

[40:44] and also the best dad in the world.

[40:46] So you got to give him points.

[40:47] Well, and he has, I do think, you know,

[40:51] there are a lot of things I like in this movie.

[40:53] He gives this look off stage of like very mixed emotions

[40:58] where he is a dad and a serial killer at the same time,

[41:01] where he's like excited to see his daughter so happy,

[41:05] but also he's like, oh God, man, I'm a bad man

[41:08] who's in a trap.

[41:10] I do love the fact that apparently nobody has ever tried

[41:12] the my kid has a terrible disease angle on this guy before,

[41:18] which means I guess he's never seen

[41:19] the Joe Namath episode of the Brady Bunch.

[41:23] Or it happens every show and Lady Raven is like,

[41:25] uncle, can you please stop falling for this?

[41:28] And he's like, one time I'm gonna tell someone

[41:30] they're lying and they won't be lying

[41:31] and I will feel terrible.

[41:33] So I will continue to believe them.

[41:33] Secretly every dream girl is somebody

[41:35] whose father said she had cancer.

[41:37] Yeah, the profiler is only feet away from him backstage,

[41:42] but he gets past her by helping a girl who collapsed

[41:45] get into the infirmary and he's a firefighter.

[41:46] So he has like first aid training and they're like,

[41:48] what a wonderful man you are to help this stranger.

[41:51] I wasn't sure why this part happened at all.

[41:53] No, this is, I think just for the irony of people thinking

[41:56] he's a great guy when really he's a monster.

[41:58] And you know, look, there's been a lot of talk

[42:01] about M. Night's dialogue, like the style of his dialogue.

[42:06] I think sometimes it's overstated.

[42:08] His dialogue?

[42:09] I am not one of those who's like,

[42:13] it's to create discomfort, you know,

[42:14] like so like it's stilted, like it's like, yeah, okay.

[42:17] Well, that could be true if it's like certain characters,

[42:19] but all of the characters I have a problem.

[42:22] But like, to me, this is like the most stilted

[42:24] where it's just like, this is a good man.

[42:26] Look at how good he is, you know.

[42:28] Not a lot of people would do what you do, mister.

[42:31] And like with the merch vendor,

[42:32] you don't see family values like that anymore,

[42:34] whatever he says, you know.

[42:36] I think at a certain point when someone does-

[42:37] Everything about this movie delights Stuart so much.

[42:40] I love it.

[42:41] I wish you guys could see all the video.

[42:43] It's just every single thing that happens

[42:45] is just delight, ecstasy.

[42:47] Lots of smiles and applause, yeah.

[42:49] That's the thing.

[42:49] I feel like if he had just been wearing,

[42:51] if he had just been wearing a sweatshirt

[42:53] with like Goku's symbol on it,

[42:54] it would explain why everyone loves him.

[42:57] Because Goku's super cool.

[42:58] People love Dragon Ball that much?

[43:00] That's what it is?

[43:01] Elliot, they do love Dragon Ball that much.

[43:03] All of them?

[43:04] I worked for the Suncoast Motion Picture Company

[43:05] in the year 2000, 1999.

[43:08] I can tell you that people love Dragon Ball.

[43:09] We had a whole wall of Dragon Ball tapes.

[43:11] So Dragon Ball was keeping that store afloat.

[43:14] If he had a Dragon Ball thing on,

[43:16] I would be indifferent to it.

[43:17] Well, you're a monster.

[43:19] I have no context for any of this.

[43:21] Yeah, it's too bad.

[43:22] It would be like the famous moment

[43:24] when I was walking through Times Square

[43:26] and I saw a shirt that said Bazinga on it

[43:27] and I didn't really get the reference.

[43:29] It made me so mad.

[43:30] I was like, just seeing Jim Parsons' face

[43:32] and it said Bazinga and I was like,

[43:33] what the hell is this?

[43:35] They put his face on it?

[43:36] That's even weirder.

[43:37] So Dan, you know what's actually great about this

[43:39] is that means that you have no frame of reference.

[43:42] You can just start watching Dragon Ball now

[43:44] and experience it all for the first time.

[43:46] What a dream.

[43:47] You can learn about Frieza, Vegeta.

[43:50] Factually, that's correct.

[43:51] I could do that.

[43:52] I could start watching it.

[43:55] Nothing is stopping you.

[43:56] You know what?

[43:57] You're right, Stuart.

[43:59] Yeah, cool.

[44:00] So anyway, backstage, Cooper,

[44:02] okay, there's two moments in this movie

[44:04] that I genuinely love.

[44:07] One is, and not in an ironic way,

[44:09] Cooper's backstage and Lady Raven goes backstage

[44:11] for costume change and uses an inhaler for a moment.

[44:13] And I kept, I was like, oh,

[44:14] so this will be like a plot point later.

[44:17] It is not.

[44:18] Or maybe it was at one point and it's left as artifact,

[44:20] but I love it.

[44:20] I love the idea.

[44:21] Just this glimpse of this superstar

[44:23] being a vulnerable person for a moment.

[44:26] I love it.

[44:27] And similarly, she introduces her other guest star,

[44:30] Thinker, who is played by, what's his name?

[44:33] Kid Cudi.

[44:34] And this is my favorite.

[44:35] I think he's really a wig wearing Kid Cudi.

[44:38] He's wearing a very fake long wig.

[44:41] He is my favorite character in the movie by far.

[44:43] He is a very catty performer.

[44:46] The first time we meet him, he is saying,

[44:48] you brought me this milk and it has lactose in it.

[44:50] What do you want me to poop myself on stage?

[44:53] And it's one of those things where I'm like,

[44:55] I think he's supposed to be presented as like a,

[44:58] like he's being a prima donna.

[45:00] But you know what?

[45:00] If you're lactose intolerant, you should,

[45:02] and you're one of the stars of the show,

[45:03] you should get lactose free milk.

[45:05] Like that is on them.

[45:05] That's on production.

[45:06] That's not good in the writer.

[45:08] That should be in the writer.

[45:09] That should be in the writer, yeah.

[45:10] That's a medical thing.

[45:11] Anyway, there's only one song left.

[45:13] Cooper and Riley go backstage and they perform it.

[45:15] They go backstage after the show.

[45:17] There's a moment, again, one of my favorite moments

[45:18] of the movie, Thinker walks by, is very polite to Riley,

[45:22] cruises Cooper so hard, just like is so,

[45:25] is coming on to him silently so hard.

[45:27] I love it.

[45:28] I was like, this is the kind of thing

[45:29] that makes a character a person.

[45:30] You know, it makes them come alive.

[45:31] And this is the kind of moment that really brings to light

[45:33] in these troubled times when People fucking Magazine lists,

[45:38] John Krasinski is the sexiest man alive.

[45:41] Oh my God, I can't believe I'm here for this.

[45:44] Stop fucking with me.

[45:47] Josh Hartnett's right there.

[45:48] Give it to him.

[45:49] What the fuck, Dan?

[45:52] And the picture of Krasinski is so arm forward,

[45:57] but his arms don't even look good in the picture.

[45:59] What's going on?

[46:00] Let's not get into nitpicking about a man's body.

[46:04] John Krasinski is pretty sexy, Stuart.

[46:07] God fucking damn.

[46:09] Turn off the podcast.

[46:10] This is a trap for me.

[46:12] Stuart, there's more than one kind of sexy, you know?

[46:14] There's more than one kind out there.

[46:15] Okay, listeners write in and tell me

[46:17] why I shouldn't jump in.

[46:19] Stuart, you know, it will give you, you know,

[46:25] air life to know that, you know, over on Blue Sky

[46:28] where everyone should migrate away from the terrible place,

[46:32] there was a lot of, what the fuck,

[46:35] when that was announced.

[46:36] Takes the sting slightly.

[46:37] Oh, he's pretty sexy.

[46:38] He looks like a Muppet with a beard on him.

[46:42] I mean, sexy, yeah.

[46:43] Up to this point, it has been objectively

[46:45] the sexiest man alive every single time.

[46:48] Harry Hamlin.

[46:49] Never got it wrong.

[46:50] Harry, I think Nick Nolte was the first of them

[46:53] that they had.

[46:54] Wow, really?

[46:55] But not like modern Nick Nolte.

[46:56] I mean, younger Nick Nolte.

[46:58] Young Nick Nolte looked pretty good.

[46:59] He did not turn into a grizzly bear yet.

[47:03] In a world where Paul Newman exists,

[47:05] Nick Nolte is not the sexiest man alive.

[47:06] It's the first time Stuart's been unhappy

[47:08] in this entire taping.

[47:09] That's true, it was love and trap.

[47:10] And he brought it up.

[47:12] None of us brought this up.

[47:13] It's not like we didn't ambush.

[47:15] It wasn't a trap to get him to talk about John Krasinski.

[47:18] So anyway, I think her cruise is Cooper.

[47:20] Cooper hears over the police radio

[47:21] that every single man in the building,

[47:23] including employees, is gonna be stopped

[47:25] by the police on the way out.

[47:27] Only Lady Raven's car will be able to leave.

[47:30] But it's a Lady Raven concert,

[47:31] so there's a limited number of men.

[47:32] They're mostly dads bringing their daughters.

[47:34] That's true.

[47:35] Only Lady Raven's car will be able to leave uninspected.

[47:39] So Cooper, he plays his ace.

[47:41] He gets alone in a room with Lady Raven,

[47:42] and he goes, hey, I'm the butcher,

[47:44] and here on my phone is my victim,

[47:46] and I'm gonna kill him

[47:47] if you don't help us leave in your limo.

[47:50] And at that point, I'm like,

[47:51] well, you've got no cards left to play, butcher.

[47:53] Like, you were holding him close to the vest

[47:54] for a long time, and you just threw him on the table.

[47:56] Let's see what happens.

[47:57] How do you guys feel about it?

[47:58] I loved this.

[47:59] I know that a lot of people think

[48:01] that this movie takes a disastrous-

[48:02] My John Krasinski.

[48:05] Including Linda, I think,

[48:08] think that the third act of this movie

[48:09] takes a disastrous turn for the worse.

[48:13] Other than the fact that, God bless her,

[48:15] I think she's a convincing pop star,

[48:18] less convincing as an actress.

[48:19] Centering Lady Raven at this part

[48:21] is a problem with the movie,

[48:24] because I don't think she's-

[48:25] Understatement.

[48:26] I don't think she's up to the task as a performer.

[48:29] Understatement again.

[48:31] I'm trying to be kind to someone who is new to acting,

[48:35] but I-

[48:36] Yeah, and she's really had to prove herself.

[48:37] It's not like her dad is a famous director

[48:40] who put her in this movie.

[48:41] Look, that's not her fault, okay?

[48:42] She fought her way to the part, man.

[48:44] I will say-

[48:44] She auditioned under a fake name.

[48:46] And she isn't the daughter who directed Watchers, right?

[48:50] No, that's another-

[48:51] Oh man, that was not a good movie.

[48:53] I do like that this movie is like, you know what?

[48:58] Fuck it.

[48:59] Like, that the butcher is like,

[49:01] okay, well, this cat and mouse game

[49:04] has played out on a large scale.

[49:06] As far as it's gonna go,

[49:08] we gotta just make it a smaller cat and mouse game now

[49:10] between the two of us.

[49:12] And it's like, this is the, you know,

[49:13] like I have to blow up my life, I guess,

[49:15] if I'm gonna get out of here.

[49:17] Like, it's a turn that I genuinely didn't expect

[49:20] in the theater, and I like that it went someplace new

[49:24] in the last part of this movie.

[49:26] And leading us to a second act

[49:27] that's basically just the two of them

[49:29] kind of yes-ending each other.

[49:31] Yeah.

[49:33] Well, what do you think?

[49:34] Linda does not believe in it.

[49:36] I think, well, first of all,

[49:39] the fact that she's not an actor is a big problem.

[49:43] The fact that they haven't developed her

[49:44] as a character at all is a big problem.

[49:46] I think that's part of the,

[49:47] the issue for me, yeah, is that like she,

[49:49] for the whole movie,

[49:50] she has been not a really character in the story,

[49:53] and now she becomes the central character.

[49:54] And I think he's going for kind of like a psycho type thing.

[49:57] Where she becomes kind of the protagonist all of a sudden.

[50:00] as you said, which which I did not work for me. And I think like, listen, I and I said

[50:05] this when we covered it on the first time on on our show. I hope that if I ever had

[50:11] as much pull as M. Night Shyamalan, if I had ever gotten as good at making a lot of money

[50:17] for myself and other people with modest budgets, if I had ever gotten as efficient with moviemaking

[50:24] and therefore found myself in that position, you know, it's like, you know, whatever compared

[50:29] to when Mike Schur was coming off of Parks and Rec, he's talked about how they basically

[50:34] said make whatever you want. So he made a show about moral philosophy because it's like

[50:39] I'm never going to have this much juice again in my whole life. So I'm going to make the

[50:42] show I want to make about moral philosophy. Yeah. And I think if I were M. Night Shyamalan

[50:48] in the position that he got himself into, I hope that I would undertake incredibly misbegotten

[50:54] projects to the benefit of my family members. I think that is a I think that is a good thing

[51:01] to do as a human being. I really believe in it, but I think it hurts the project. Right.

[51:08] Like it's so the movie is so obsessed. And, you know, they've talked about this. The movie

[51:14] was really conceived as a way to showcase her music. Yeah. And I think, you know, I

[51:20] was saying to somebody the other day, like, let's imagine that they do this movie without

[51:25] her music. Right. How's the how's the soundtrack album, by the way, Dan? Yeah, it's in regular

[51:32] rotation. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. It's it's it's taken over instead of what the Judgment

[51:39] Night soundtrack. Mm hmm. He's he's never going to kind of go negotiate with somebody

[51:45] else for music. So it's going to be public domain songs. That's my theory. Make a version

[51:50] of this movie with public domain songs so that when they're when she gets there and

[51:54] they're boogieing at the concert, it's like the greatest in the land. It's like you're

[51:58] a grand old flag and all that kind of stuff. That's the pure version of this movie. Right.

[52:03] Because it all becomes marketing for her music. And I think it does hurt the movie. And I

[52:08] think the problem is and we have we haven't quite gotten to this part yet, but go go ahead.

[52:13] I'll I'll ding when we get there. But I also I kind of like that it is I feel like this

[52:18] is a pretty good capturing of like a pop concert. I'm not necessarily saying that the

[52:25] music is like the same tier, but in a way it's also like especially like when they get

[52:31] out to sing the finale, you know, the big whatever the encore and I'm like, wow, that's

[52:36] the song they're closing with. Yeah, there's like no hook, dude. Yeah, I think it does

[52:43] capture that feeling a lot. And the I I'm torn because I don't think the music is amazing.

[52:49] And I think her performance is not what it needs to be to sell that she is now the star

[52:53] of the show. But the movie around it is better than it needs to be, I think, if it is a if

[52:59] it's a movie meant to showcase a soundtrack album. And there have been so many movies

[53:03] that were made around a band or around a singer that are terrible because they're just just

[53:08] excuses for getting that person to sing in front of camera. So I don't know. I'm torn.

[53:12] I like Natalie. Yeah, I was waiting for it. Since I clearly turned the movie off the moment

[53:19] the credits started. Is there is there like like a trap theme song played over the credits

[53:25] that she sings where she like raps? I'm sure there may be not not rap the story. So the

[53:29] butchers in the stands and there's a lot of pulling all the man. Why did you set him up

[53:33] for that? It's a dad. Oh, man, I want to hear this. Oh, we're going to later. So anyway,

[53:42] but we'll get we'll get the feature. So because this is where the movie like I was saying,

[53:45] I think they're trying to for like a psycho type thing where it's like you thought it

[53:48] was following these people, but really it's following this person now. But that's that

[53:52] it's not doesn't work as well. I think maybe because it's like they're going from a less

[53:56] interesting character to our more interesting character. They're going from right. Janet

[53:59] Lee to Anthony Perkins, whereas here they're going from the butcher to a pop star, you

[54:04] know? Yeah. So Cooper, he wants Lady Raven's limo to take them to their car so they can

[54:10] escape. They get waved right out. Lady Raven is untouchable. Anyone in her orbit is immune

[54:14] to is immune to inspection. And they're parked like super close right on the street. So it's

[54:19] not even that big. It's not even that big of a hassle. I will say I will say perhaps

[54:24] he did what I did at the Judas Priest concert and prebooked a parking space and just pay

[54:28] a little extra. It's worth it, everybody. You save yourself so much hassle, you know,

[54:32] just go ahead and do it. So maybe she's this. Raven takes he he's like, just drop us off

[54:37] in a car. It's right next to the stadium. And she's like, no, I want to see your house.

[54:41] And Riley is like, really? When if I'm in the car with a serial killer who has explained

[54:48] to me that he is someone who has dismembered, I don't know, 14, 12, 14 people. If we're

[54:54] in the car and he says I'm going to get out up here at the corner, I'm going to say, OK,

[55:00] bye. As opposed to no, let's go to your house. This is what separates you from a true hero.

[55:07] That's the thing. I think it was around this point where it's revealed that he has a wife

[55:12] at home. And I'm like, what? I mean, he had such like single dad energy at this point.

[55:19] Yeah, I guess I you know what? This is a this is a plot hole of the many that that that I did

[55:28] not think about. But even if she wants to save this guy, you're right. Like, let him get out.

[55:32] You know who this man is now. You know, the cops, you know, the police and say, hey,

[55:41] he just got out of my car. She's got a phone on her. You know, what are you going to do when

[55:44] you get to his house that you can't do now? That's my question. Yeah, well, I think I wonder

[55:49] if it's that. I mean, my assumption is she wants to go to his house so that she can tell the police

[55:54] where he lives, like they can go right there, you know, as opposed to him escape, disappearing into

[55:57] the crowd potentially. But if you say he's the dad of a girl named Riley, who's this age, you know,

[56:03] and looks like this, then they could probably track him down. He was just on stage in front

[56:07] of a lot of people. Yeah. But the other but the other answer is because the movie can't end right

[56:12] there and you got to keep the movie going. So, yeah, when they get to their home, Cooper's family

[56:16] is so excited to have Lady Raven there and his wife and his son. He has a younger son. His wife

[56:21] is Allison. Very excited to see that. Yeah. And she gets her scene later on, you know. So the and

[56:30] she's like, hey, you know, it's weirdly enough, it's kind of a pill based scene later on. Oh,

[56:36] that's that's why the cast. It's all pun based. So Josh Hartnett. Well,

[56:46] they're asking that to catch his heart. It's a good theory. I like it.

[56:55] So she's like, hey, Cooper's family, you know, it's interesting. The whole concert we're using

[57:00] as a trap to catch the butcher because he was going to come to the show. And and Cooper's like,

[57:05] she explains why she does give a little bit of background here. She explains why they were

[57:10] there. They like they found one of his his his old crime spots because they found a torn ticket

[57:16] there. Other than you have no idea why they would know that this band loves this music.

[57:20] Allison, like the wife, you know, her reaction is restrained. But enough that you're like,

[57:25] OK, well, she knows something, you know, at this point. Why did he? Because what they say is that

[57:32] a part of a receipt. Yeah. Was found in his safe house. Yes. What in twenty twenty four? How did

[57:41] he obtain a concert ticket and wind up having a receipt he was carrying around in his wallet?

[57:47] Did he buy it at the bodega? Yeah, I got a CVS. He said he said, I don't want to pay that

[57:54] three dollar ten dollar ticket master charge. I'm going to the box office and I know it's good. I

[57:59] know that the gas I'm using to drive to the box office in the heart of Philly, I live out in the

[58:04] suburbs. I know it's more than the money that I'm spending on the ticket master charge. But you know

[58:09] what? Gosh, darn it. I just don't want to pay that. I don't think they deserve that money.

[58:13] So I'm going to go and I'm going to buy it at the box office. I bet that's what he did.

[58:16] And they gave him like the little receipt and they gave him like a little wallet.

[58:20] And he said, I'm going to keep this in my wallet to remember this special day with Riley.

[58:23] I mean, I feel like this is in Philly, so you could probably buy a

[58:26] concert ticket at like a Wawa or something, right? Yeah, that's right. Probably. Probably. Yeah.

[58:31] Yeah. Put that on top of my sub and then I got to go run up the steps to the Museum of Art. Yeah.

[58:36] If you said sub in Philly, Dan, they would beat you to death. I'm sorry.

[58:41] I'm from the Midwest. We call things what we call them. A hoagie? Is that what the correct?

[58:47] Yeah. I didn't pronounce it correctly, but I did not.

[58:50] Wawa is the good shit. I will say that. I grew up going to Wawa.

[58:54] So she's like, hey, anyway, it's my concert's all about trapping the butcher. Hey,

[58:59] can I play a song for you? And she plays a song and Hooper is recording it. And then she's like,

[59:04] how about a selfie? And she just takes the camera and then runs into the bathroom.

[59:08] I don't want to skip over.

[59:09] Takes the phone and runs to the bathroom.

[59:10] Some great camera move, like a legitimately funny camera move that where she's like,

[59:16] hey, let me play a song. She points over like the camera just pans over to the piano.

[59:22] I loved it. I'm like, yes, you made the right choice here.

[59:25] And I love that while she's playing this song, Josh Hartnett stands right next to them

[59:29] filming it and they keep cutting to him filming. And it's such a weird angle and shot.

[59:35] Obviously, it's a set up that she's like clocking where his phone is so she can steal it.

[59:40] But it's just a really fun. It's very funny. This whole thing.

[59:43] This whole this whole part scene right here is very funny. And I think it's supposed to

[59:46] seem suspenseful like she's she's stalling for time. She's doing the only thing she knows how

[59:50] to do to do it, which is perform music. And Riley doesn't know what this is all about.

[59:53] So she just thinks this is the greatest day in her life. But it comes off as

[59:57] it's a little silly. Anyway, she grabs Cooper's.

[1:00:00] phone, goes into the bathroom, locks herself in, uses his Serial Killer app to get in touch

[1:00:03] with the victim, and is like, tell me anything you remember about where he took you.

[1:00:07] And he's like, oh, there was a broken statue of a stone lion and a blue door.

[1:00:10] And she goes on to Instagram and she's like, hey, all my fans, hey, I love you so much.

[1:00:14] Peace and love, peace all over, you know, freedom in the Middle East or whatever.

[1:00:18] And hey, there's a, I have this guy, I need you to help him.

[1:00:21] Does anyone live near a stone, broken stone lion and there's a house with a blue door?

[1:00:25] And she manages to crowdsource where the house is, and she's like, go to that house, which

[1:00:29] is bad advice to tell her fans.

[1:00:31] Don't go to the house that the Serial Killer has a guy at, call the police, tell them to

[1:00:34] go to the house.

[1:00:35] She could have called the police, maybe she could have called 911 when she got into the

[1:00:39] bathroom with the phone.

[1:00:40] And said, I'm at the butcher's house.

[1:00:41] Yeah, that's a good point.

[1:00:42] I'm at the butcher's house, here's his address, this is the street he lives on.

[1:00:44] It's like, this is the clever thing for her to do, but it's not the smart thing.

[1:00:47] Yeah, I do like this as a device.

[1:00:51] There would have been a better, like, there are a lot of things in here where it's like,

[1:00:54] it would have been a better way to implement it, you know, even though the basic device

[1:00:59] is fun.

[1:01:00] If you had built this up with Lady Raven as more of a character, then you could have,

[1:01:02] I think you could have had her, you could have made a little bit more about this, you

[1:01:05] know, but, and the way she relates to her fans and all that, but anyway, Cooper's getting

[1:01:09] increasingly loud and angry on the other side of the door.

[1:01:12] And I do like, it reminds me of my favorite scene in the movie Phone Booth, where he's

[1:01:18] talking on the phone with a sniper, and these other people want to use the phone and they're

[1:01:21] banging on the door.

[1:01:22] And he's like, there's just too much stuff going on at once, it's very stressful.

[1:01:25] I'm like, it is, I know the stress to be on the phone with somebody and someone else

[1:01:29] is yelling, it's usually a child in my case, is yelling at you on the other side, and usually

[1:01:33] not always.

[1:01:34] No, sometimes it's the butcher.

[1:01:36] And she yells to the door, your husband is the butcher.

[1:01:40] And that's, you know, that's he she thinks that's checkmate.

[1:01:43] And then I will say this, this is the scariest moment of the movie to me, and I think the

[1:01:48] movie does not earn it.

[1:01:49] But I think they have it is this, the noise stops outside the bathroom door.

[1:01:54] And then when Cooper gets that door open, his family is gone.

[1:01:57] And we don't know at first where they are in that one moment, where I'm like, did he

[1:02:01] murder his whole family?

[1:02:02] And that like, that's the scariest moment, the whole movie for me, that turns out he

[1:02:05] locks them in a very easy to escape room.

[1:02:07] So I feel like I feel like if if they're if they had like, paused for a moment with that,

[1:02:13] and like maybe even done like a close up on like a single bit of blood, like, yes, yeah,

[1:02:18] like something while she's like searching for trying to figure out what exactly happened.

[1:02:22] Yeah, yeah.

[1:02:23] Or even like if he or if it if it did happen, and she's and he's there, and there's just

[1:02:27] like, a little blood on his shirt or something like that, then I would be like, this movie

[1:02:30] just jumped up a whole like a whole level, you know.

[1:02:35] But it didn't, it didn't do that.

[1:02:36] So he's like, Hey, anyway, let me check my phone, excuse me, give me my phone.

[1:02:41] He checks it, his victim is gone.

[1:02:43] He's been rescued already.

[1:02:44] And he's like, you're gonna be my hostage to escape.

[1:02:47] Let's get my wife's car because they're gonna be looking for my car.

[1:02:49] And Raven, they get in the car and Raven starts, I guess, using what the profiler taught

[1:02:54] her before the movie started.

[1:02:56] And she starts talking to him as if she's her mother, as if she's his mother.

[1:03:00] And you know, you're a why you being a bad boy, or I don't know what she says.

[1:03:03] Did this scene work for you guys at all, because it did not work for me at all.

[1:03:07] It seems so ridiculous.

[1:03:08] This, this whole section, you know, yeah, I, they tried to make something of this mom

[1:03:12] thing.

[1:03:13] But it feels so extraneous to the movie, like it doesn't actually have an effect.

[1:03:18] I mean, she's like doing it so obviously and clumsily that I don't, I don't know.

[1:03:24] In terms of serial killers with relationships with their moms, this is not the best movie

[1:03:28] to have that.

[1:03:30] I can think of four of them.

[1:03:32] Yeah, I mean, I think you could do something with this, theoretically.

[1:03:38] I mean, it's a it's a direction to go down.

[1:03:40] But I think, you know, for me in a movie like this, I think any effort you make to explain

[1:03:45] why he's a serial killer is completely unnecessary.

[1:03:48] Yeah.

[1:03:49] It's not that kind of movie, right?

[1:03:51] And so it's one thing like, yes, I mean, first of all, as I think Dan's alluding to, it's

[1:03:56] been done a lot, the whole like, it's the mom's fault.

[1:03:59] But also, I don't care, like, it's not like they're going to get to someplace where you're

[1:04:03] going to be like, you know what, and I totally understand why he decided to start cutting

[1:04:07] up people's bodies and leaving them in piles around various places, like, now that really

[1:04:12] makes sense to me, like, now I get it.

[1:04:15] So I just don't care why he's a serial killer.

[1:04:17] It's I just want the I just want the thriller part.

[1:04:19] I don't care why.

[1:04:20] I don't even think they're saying it's the mom's fault, though, because like later on,

[1:04:25] you know, Hayley Mills says, you know, probably early on, you know, no one could have noticed

[1:04:31] that like, they're very good at disguising it.

[1:04:33] The only person who probably knows was his mom.

[1:04:36] So the idea, I guess, is just that, like, he had this relationship with his mom where

[1:04:41] she's like, trying to keep him in line.

[1:04:44] Like I know that you have the serial killer urge within you, but don't kill people, please,

[1:04:50] you know, but maybe it's not enough.

[1:04:53] Like, I don't like I agree in the larger sense where it's like, I don't need the psychology

[1:04:58] of it.

[1:04:59] Like, this is such a silly movie that it's nothing's going to be worth it.

[1:05:04] I think it's meant to be like a deepening of the character, but it feels like padding.

[1:05:07] It feels like filler, you know, because you're right.

[1:05:09] This is not the kind of movie where we're going to get inside the head of a of a dark

[1:05:13] soul and see what makes it tick.

[1:05:16] Yeah.

[1:05:17] I mean, I think there's a time that would have been better spent doing more like tense

[1:05:20] thrill ride crap.

[1:05:22] Yes.

[1:05:23] And but that's not what happens.

[1:05:24] And then this stalls just for a little bit.

[1:05:26] He opens up the garage.

[1:05:27] His family is standing there blocking the car and that unmanned him.

[1:05:31] He can't he can't move against his family anymore.

[1:05:33] He loves them too much, I guess.

[1:05:34] And she takes the family way in her limo as the SWAT cops descend on the house.

[1:05:39] Have they caught the butcher?

[1:05:41] Did they finally catch the notorious Philly butcher?

[1:05:43] No, there's at least two more twists.

[1:05:47] No, there's an escape tunnel.

[1:05:49] He escaped.

[1:05:50] What I think it's really funny is they're like, we found a tunnel.

[1:05:51] It leads to the neighbor's yard.

[1:05:52] And I'm like, then he can't be that far away.

[1:05:54] Like, just get that asshole.

[1:05:55] What the fuck?

[1:05:56] He just gave up.

[1:05:57] Well, he got off the teleport.

[1:05:59] We didn't talk about that.

[1:06:00] Oh, yeah, there's that.

[1:06:01] Oh, boy.

[1:06:03] We thought he was here, but he's actually 100 feet away.

[1:06:05] Sorry.

[1:06:06] I guess he's out of our jurisdiction when he's in that yard.

[1:06:08] Maybe if Lady Raven had called 911 instead of gotten on Instagram, they would have been

[1:06:12] there sooner.

[1:06:13] To get the social points.

[1:06:16] I was hoping that we were going to have like a serial killer home alone situation, kind

[1:06:20] of like in the recent season of Fargo.

[1:06:22] But we didn't get that.

[1:06:24] We can't chase them across property lines.

[1:06:26] No.

[1:06:27] We have no jurisdiction.

[1:06:28] No, we can't go there.

[1:06:30] And so Cooper has an escape tunnel and he gets the drop on Lady Raven again.

[1:06:36] She's in her limo.

[1:06:37] He handcuffs her to like a railing inside the limo, which is not a thing that limos

[1:06:40] usually have.

[1:06:41] It's like a like a handicapped railing or something.

[1:06:43] Right.

[1:06:44] I mean, they have that thing that you like hang stuff on, right?

[1:06:48] Like the towel rack?

[1:06:49] No.

[1:06:50] Like an oh shit bar.

[1:06:51] Yeah.

[1:06:52] Like the suit.

[1:06:53] The suit.

[1:06:54] The suit thing.

[1:06:55] The thing where you hang up clothes and stuff like that.

[1:06:57] But it's so low down.

[1:06:58] That's not where you would hang.

[1:06:59] No, I don't think there's any pool on the ground.

[1:07:01] OK, no, I don't think there's anything that makes this make sense.

[1:07:05] And so he handcuffs her to this to this rail and he's driving around.

[1:07:08] He's driving through Philly with her in the back.

[1:07:10] He's like he's in the front as the as the chauffeur.

[1:07:14] And he's like, you know, I don't like that when I saw you on stage, you seemed like you

[1:07:18] were whole.

[1:07:19] I don't like people who are whole.

[1:07:20] You know, he likes people who are who are half, you know, incomplete.

[1:07:22] You know, it's more trying to create a philosophy for him, which does not need to be there.

[1:07:26] He's a he's a cypher.

[1:07:28] When he should have just been talking about all the sights and sounds of South Street

[1:07:31] and Philly.

[1:07:32] Well, and here's the thing.

[1:07:33] I don't know why he decides to take her through apparently the busiest part of Philly because

[1:07:36] it's crowded with people.

[1:07:38] And she rolls down a window.

[1:07:39] She's like, hey, I'm Lady Raven.

[1:07:40] And they all crowd around her car.

[1:07:42] And once again, she has weaponized her fame to stymie this brilliant serial killing monster.

[1:07:47] And the fans are in the car and it buys time for her to finally rip out the railing and

[1:07:51] escape.

[1:07:52] She manages to remove it.

[1:07:53] I would sue her limo manufacturer or something, or at least ask for a refund.

[1:07:57] It shouldn't be.

[1:07:58] It shouldn't break that easily.

[1:07:59] The police show up.

[1:08:00] They shoot out the tires.

[1:08:01] Sorry.

[1:08:02] So.

[1:08:03] But now, finally, finally, they caught the butcher.

[1:08:04] Right.

[1:08:05] I mean, he's in a car.

[1:08:06] They're surrounding his car with guns.

[1:08:07] Yeah.

[1:08:08] Like he is finally after two traps.

[1:08:10] He is finally trapped.

[1:08:11] Right, guys.

[1:08:12] You can't trap the trap master.

[1:08:14] Well, I just you think of the trapster, a.k.a.

[1:08:17] Payspot Pete.

[1:08:18] But let's let's envision the car surrounded by fans of her who want nothing more than

[1:08:25] to get into the car and see her who now sort of understand that she was in trouble because

[1:08:29] she indicated she was there's a swarm of people around the car.

[1:08:34] He does what exactly in slipping away?

[1:08:39] He we can't.

[1:08:40] We have to say he does not open the door or else people would have to move people out

[1:08:43] of the way.

[1:08:44] They would see that happening.

[1:08:45] So I guess he has an escape tunnel in the limo that didn't belong to him, but out the

[1:08:51] bottom into a manhole.

[1:08:52] What happens is he starts running around in circles and then the bottom half of his body

[1:08:57] turns into a drill and he drills through the bottom of the car.

[1:09:00] Oh, he did the old drill spin.

[1:09:02] Yeah, it happens.

[1:09:03] You got a hole in the bottom of the car.

[1:09:05] Have you ever seen the documentary about the Toynbee tiles, which are the those things?

[1:09:11] There are these tiles that are in the street, in the pavement in Philadelphia and some other

[1:09:15] places that have a little weird secret message and nobody knew like how they were getting

[1:09:20] embedded.

[1:09:21] They're in New York, too.

[1:09:22] And you can still occasionally see them.

[1:09:24] They have a weird, they're like a mosaic, like mosaics, they're like made out of a piece

[1:09:27] of glass and stuff.

[1:09:28] And there's a whole documentary about these guys who went out to try to figure out where

[1:09:31] in the hell these things came from and who was doing it.

[1:09:35] And it turns out that the person who was doing it was dropping them out of the bottom of

[1:09:39] a hole in a car, like driving over the pavement and dropping the the tile out the bottom of

[1:09:46] a hole in the car.

[1:09:48] It is a great documentary and it has it's called Resurrect Dead and it has the best

[1:09:53] Philadelphia accents you will ever hear in your life.

[1:09:59] So that's just a little.

[1:10:00] About that and so I figure he has that kind of little hole in the bottom of the car drop it out

[1:10:04] Drop himself out crawl away. That's possible

[1:10:07] I mean, I just thought maybe he took his one last ghost pill which allows him to turn invisible and intangible and he could walk

[1:10:12] Through everybody, but the point is your way is better. He's loose. He does what every cut every good criminal does goes back home

[1:10:19] Yeah, Lady Raven being a saint goes and comforts the freed victim of the butcher

[1:10:23] He goes back home to his wife who has deliberately stayed at home

[1:10:27] the profiler was like you can come with us to safety and she's like now stay at home and Cooper shows up because she has

[1:10:32] to be there to reveal that she

[1:10:34] Suspected he was the butcher and set him up by going to his his kill house and leaving the receipt torn

[1:10:41] So it looked like it was a mistake and the police would know he would be at the Lady Raven concert

[1:10:46] He threatens her with a knife and she's like wait before you kill me

[1:10:49] Can you at least have some of the eye that I made?

[1:10:50] I think you were ignoring the my favorite thing, which is he goes inside and immediately starts taking you sure

[1:10:57] There was a moment where I was like, I did I so it's another thing

[1:10:59] I missed the moment where he took his shirt off. So I was like, it's suddenly you shirtless and I was like

[1:11:02] Well, I don't understand. Why isn't he wearing a shirt?

[1:11:04] it goes with this part of the explanation the explanation that they give is

[1:11:10] She he was being like distant and strange and she thought maybe he was having an affair

[1:11:15] But then she smelled

[1:11:18] cleaning

[1:11:19] product

[1:11:22] And so when she smells the hospital-grade cleaning products her first thought is

[1:11:32] It's an intrusive thought that gets in her head and so she does this test for him

[1:11:37] I guess so she so she starts talking about I smelled it on your clothes and that's when he starts taking his shirt off

[1:11:44] Oh, I see that way that I think they're supposed to be a connection between she starts talking about your clothes were

[1:11:50] incriminating

[1:11:52] But yeah, and the best part about the torn receipt when she says, oh I tore it so that it would seem like a mistake

[1:11:58] No, you tore it because a real receipt for a ticket would probably have some kind of identify

[1:12:03] Information that would mean that they would not have to go about it in this way

[1:12:07] That's because they would be like a credit card number

[1:12:10] And there's not really any reason why a torn receipt will look more like a mistake than a whole receipt

[1:12:15] It left behind in your hidey-hole

[1:12:18] Yeah, it's this is where I think it just starts getting real goofy, I mean

[1:12:24] That doesn't make sense. I mean I do think that like I

[1:12:29] Look the the I'm not saying this is good

[1:12:31] I'm saying that the idea that the movie is putting forth is like I didn't want to believe it

[1:12:36] So I'm doing this like circuitous thing and like maybe it'll prove me

[1:12:42] maybe it'll disprove me and I enjoyed watching the scene because

[1:12:46] Again, God bless her Lady Raven. Not the actress that Allison Pill is like you've got like two people

[1:12:53] Really like tearing into the scene here, which helps it paper over the fact that this doesn't make any sense

[1:12:59] Like if she suspected her husband might be this killer

[1:13:02] Again, call the police

[1:13:04] They can look into it

[1:13:06] Do something about your kids

[1:13:08] Maybe she's just like I want to see what kind of crazy trap they come up with

[1:13:12] Maybe this is their sex game, their cat and mouse play

[1:13:14] Their sex game their cat and mouse play where it's like I'm gonna set up a trap and see if he can get out of it

[1:13:19] It's there was it's gonna be so there's a brief moment when they were going to the house and I was like is his wife

[1:13:28] I was worried that was what it was gonna be there

[1:13:29] Maybe like you almost got caught you've got to get better, you know

[1:13:32] But uh, but she's the silly part for me was when she goes wait before you kill me

[1:13:36] Can you we have some of this pie that I made I went all the trouble making it

[1:13:38] It's a whole piece of pie before realize that he's drugged. She drugged the pie

[1:13:42] Yeah, he hallucinates his mother being like that's the pill that I mentioned earlier

[1:13:46] Yes, and he hallucinates his mother being like I love you and the cops come in and tase the shit out of him

[1:13:51] They just keep tasing him and they arrest him. They bring him outside. They let him pick up Riley's knocked over bicycle

[1:13:57] Which was lying on his side. He's a good dad

[1:13:59] You know Riley comes out gets to hug him one last time and then just to speed through the end

[1:14:03] He's in the back of the police van and he pulls out from his sleeve. He's handcuffed. He pulls out his sleeve

[1:14:07] He palmed one of the spokes from Riley's bike how you could pull the

[1:14:16] Moment to yourself off in the corner with yes of equipment. They're like they take you into the police van

[1:14:21] Yeah, this guy who is probably let's say probably a suicide risk like yeah

[1:14:26] Let's just leave him alone in the back of the van

[1:14:29] And so he takes out that that spoke and it takes up more time than I thought it would he handcuff he unlocks his handcuff

[1:14:35] He's laughing as if he's gonna get away and it's like when they it's not like when they open the doors

[1:14:39] He's gonna run for it

[1:14:41] Like he's gonna it was supposed to be like he's guys about to escape as soon as he'll as soon as he leaps

[1:14:45] Just gonna shoot him Elliot. You're wrong

[1:14:48] You know, he's like, you know, he's got another car

[1:14:51] I know he's gonna escape because it's a movie but in I'm saying and there's nothing if other than his supernatural

[1:14:56] Escaping abilities as a serial killer. There's nothing that would lead us to believe he is that much closer to escaping

[1:15:02] There was one more shot maybe in the middle of the credits

[1:15:05] it would be a shot of them opening up the back doors and he would be like he would be gone his clothes would be

[1:15:11] There and they'd be like

[1:15:20] Now it's possible that would have been the more that the mid credit scene that would have made more sense instead of a sequel

[1:15:25] Instead as we mentioned we get the mid credit scene of the merch vendors

[1:15:27] Just watching TV and they say this guy Cooper did this thing and he goes he has the biggest comedy reaction to it

[1:15:34] He flips out. Yes. I'm never talking to anybody at work again. He's

[1:15:41] It is like the it is though it is the live-action equivalent of someone just flipping backwards at the end of a bazooka Joe comics

[1:15:47] I

[1:15:51] Believe that he missed it. I can't believe you guys making this up. No, that's the moment where I'm like

[1:15:57] Oh, they knew they were making a silly movie because this is not a creepy, you know thing

[1:16:00] This is just a big joke and it's so silly, you know

[1:16:03] Yeah, well, let's get into our judgments whether this is a good bad movie our final judgments

[1:16:08] in fact a good bad movie a bad bad movie or a movie we kind of like and I have to say

[1:16:13] Look it's a movie. I kind of like and I will I will say after that that

[1:16:19] There's a sucks or rocks mentality that I think the internet has only made worse where it has to be

[1:16:26] Like bad terrible or it has to be like amazing every choice was right, and I don't think every choice was right

[1:16:32] I think that there's stuff in here that is

[1:16:35] Like silly thriller mechanics that I like because I like the manipulation. I think he's having fun

[1:16:42] Specifically being like goofy and manipulating things and

[1:16:46] And it might be outlandish, but it doesn't matter and then there's stuff in there where it's like no

[1:16:52] This legitimately makes no sense. And maybe if you gave it a little more thought

[1:16:58] You could make a better

[1:17:00] movie with the same elements

[1:17:02] Likewise some of the dialogue like I don't have the problem that some people have with the dialogue

[1:17:07] But I am also not gonna be out there defending it as like no

[1:17:11] This is exactly the dialogue you wanted to do like you could have made some dialogue that sounded a little more like human beings

[1:17:18] That being said like it is a movie that I think is having fun

[1:17:23] Being a silly trashy thriller and I and I enjoyed it

[1:17:27] Stewart yeah, I mean to touch on like I feel like I

[1:17:33] I've been critical of

[1:17:35] Shyamalan in the past of being of like being not really an actor's director

[1:17:40] And I think a big part of is that he writes dialogue that you know

[1:17:44] You have to you have to be a good actor to sell

[1:17:48] and I

[1:17:50] Mean at least that's kind of how I feel with it. I would say this is a movie that I kind of liked

[1:17:54] I mean, it is very silly large chunks of it don't make sense, particularly the final third doesn't make much sense

[1:18:01] But I had a lot of fun and I really just loved like I just loved that first act of him just like

[1:18:07] Desperately trying to sneak his way out of there and like being very funny about it

[1:18:12] Like it's just and then like just like upping the ante to the point where he's like

[1:18:17] Oh, I guess I gotta go backstage like I loved it. Love that stuff. But yeah

[1:18:21] Yeah, the final third's a mess and I feel like yeah, they're trying to clean up for homework

[1:18:27] Like it's like they're trying to finish their homework on the bus on the way to school

[1:18:31] Yeah, it does. I I kind of feel similarly

[1:18:35] I think that like this is I don't think it's a good bad movie and I don't think it's so bad bad

[1:18:38] But I don't it's not quite a movie. I kind of like but I feel like it is a

[1:18:41] There are things I like in it, you know

[1:18:43] But I think I'm grading it on a curve to be honest because this is the kind of movie you don't

[1:18:48] See that much of in in wide release anymore the same way that like when I watched the net in

[1:18:53] 1995 I was like this movie is bad. And now when I watch it, I'm like, this is a fun movie

[1:18:57] I kind of like this movie. So I think that's that's the curve

[1:19:00] I'm grading it on because there's a lot in the movie that

[1:19:02] Doesn't quite make sense and is very silly and is not as it never reaches

[1:19:07] I think what it gets me is it's never it doesn't ever reaches the moments of thrill or suspense that it is going for

[1:19:12] I don't think you know about

[1:19:15] Spills it gets you know, that woman falls down the stair. I mean, yeah push down the stairs. That's a spill

[1:19:19] But Linda, what do you think you loved it, right? I

[1:19:22] I

[1:19:23] This is not just a good bad movie. This is like my exact idea of a good bad movie and I had I

[1:19:31] Absolutely great time at this movie

[1:19:33] I saw it with my best friend in the world and we were at the theater and it was a great time

[1:19:38] Because as I said at the end of this movie, I turned to him and I said, you know

[1:19:42] If they said something about the parent trap, this would be the best movie I've seen all year, right?

[1:19:47] However, the reason why it kind of irks me is that I I fucking love thrillers like I love

[1:19:54] like what I tend to refer to as trench coat thrillers like

[1:19:58] you know the whole

[1:20:00] in the 90s in particular you had both like really high-end ones like The Fugitive and

[1:20:04] then you also had like these really goofy ones like Double Jeopardy and stuff like that.

[1:20:10] I love thrillers and I love silly thrillers. However, it is possible to spend 30 seconds

[1:20:21] making it make more sense than this and when it is so in your face that like there's no indication

[1:20:28] of like why his wife would if she really thought he was a serial killer go about this like I think

[1:20:35] you might be a serial killer so I'm gonna give the police a very unhelpful clue that will set

[1:20:40] you up to be confronted while you're with my daughter at a concert. I'm gonna set it up so

[1:20:46] that you are potentially picked up by the police or killed by the police in front of our daughter.

[1:20:52] There's not really any kind of effort to explain what this police operation even is what they're

[1:20:59] going to do if they like what they're doing to all these people. There's no effort to get around

[1:21:04] like this would immediately be something that everyone in Philadelphia knew about as opposed

[1:21:08] to the fact that the concert's kind of going along and everybody seems to not be paying that much

[1:21:13] attention to it inside the concert even though everyone is being held by the police. No, there's

[1:21:19] like not and it irritates me because I sort of agree with something that Dan was saying about the

[1:21:26] sucks or rocks thing but my version of that is that I think there is a pedantry about unimportant

[1:21:32] details that has resulted in a backlash where anytime you say this doesn't make a fucking bit

[1:21:39] of sense people are like you don't get it you don't get it it's supposed to be fun it can still

[1:21:44] be fun in fact I would argue and I hate this makes me sound so much like the person where

[1:21:50] like if you're responsible at the party it's more fun it can actually be I think more fun when it

[1:21:56] is put together in a way that everything kind of fits and clicks and that's what I love in thrillers

[1:22:01] that's why I maintain that if they had given Die Hard an Oscar for screenplay I think that would

[1:22:06] have been absolutely appropriate everything in that movie everything in that movie is either

[1:22:11] setup or payoff of a specific thing the thing with the bare feet it is so it is all so tight

[1:22:19] the same thing is true of uh speed the same thing is true of the fugitive and I'm not saying you

[1:22:24] have to be as good as like my favorite thrillers but like he is good enough to make good thrillers

[1:22:31] and this feels a little bit like who gives a shit he is like he is good enough to make like

[1:22:36] the Philly thriller movie right and I it just irritates me yeah it irritates me that we have

[1:22:44] wound up in this situation where if you ask for anything yeah there's this kind of like

[1:22:49] you just don't get it I promise you I get trap like I don't not get trap now not that we might

[1:22:56] be jumping into recommendations but you're talking about uh you're talking about thrillers from the

[1:23:01] past I feel like the if I'm looking for like an adult thriller movie what I'm hoping for like

[1:23:08] Fincher to make another one of his paperback thrillers like what yeah who where else should

[1:23:14] I look for this Linda I need I need direction for thrills well this is the thing is that there

[1:23:18] aren't that many and that's that's what irritates me is he's sort of the guy who should be making

[1:23:24] them and when they happen they're sometimes on uh they're sometimes on streaming now like smaller

[1:23:28] smaller ones there's one that uh Julianne Moore was in called uh sharper that was on I think Apple

[1:23:35] and it's not great but I thought it was fun um and a lot of them are kind of getting into that

[1:23:43] space I think also there's a lot of horror thriller kind of um you know blurring of that

[1:23:51] line where you don't get as many non-horror political trench coat thrillers like the

[1:23:56] Grisham stuff and all that kind of stuff that's it feels like that's that's what a big part of

[1:24:01] what's happened is that horror has eaten up the oxygen that used to go to thrillers and the kind

[1:24:05] of movies that of the kinds of movies that Alfred Hitchcock used to make there's a lot of psychos

[1:24:09] now but there's not a lot of like notoriouses right no that's a good point right yeah I'm like

[1:24:14] I'm thinking of like I don't know like Fresh did you see that one on Hulu with uh Sebastian Stan

[1:24:20] the I didn't but I heard I heard oh wait I did see that yeah I heard there was a there was a lot

[1:24:26] of like uh you in danger girl movies that all came out where it's like women going off into

[1:24:31] the woods with strange men you're like I don't know why yeah this and every once in a while

[1:24:35] there's one that I really like like that I don't expect to like that's more on the horror side but

[1:24:40] pull some of those same strings the one that Caitlin Deaver was in that has no dialogue

[1:24:45] almost yeah with the the aliens one yeah yeah I hope that was fun and scary as hell and yeah and

[1:24:52] uh and and and bleak as fuck which I kind of enjoyed about it in the end um so anyway I

[1:24:59] think I get mad about the happy ending Linda it's uh yeah for one character it's opportunity I think

[1:25:04] opportunity costs kind of got me with this movie because I think Hartnett is like look the more I've

[1:25:10] the more I've watched trapped uh trapped the more I've watched trap the more I do really like the

[1:25:15] Hartnett performance and at the end when he's like explaining his weird sadism to his wife

[1:25:21] I think it's like quite effectively creepy I'd watch that movie but gotta make it make just a

[1:25:27] little bit of sense a little sorry I know that's a long rant but that those are my trapped feelings

[1:25:32] it feels like it feels like the frustrating thing about this movie yeah I think what you're saying

[1:25:35] is there's a better version of this movie that they could have made and they just didn't they

[1:25:39] didn't get to that they were kind of more focused on the concert it feels like and less on everything

[1:25:44] else yeah somewhere in an alternate universe where Hollywood is smarter and the Emmy nominees for

[1:25:58] Outstanding Comedy Series are Jet Pacula, Airport Marriott, Ruffle, Dear America We've

[1:26:08] Seen You Naked, and Allah in the Family. In our stupid universe you can't see any of these shows

[1:26:17] but you can listen to them on Dead Pilots Society the podcast that brings you hilarious comedy

[1:26:24] pilots that the networks and streamers bought but never made journey to the alternate television

[1:26:30] universe of Dead Pilots Society on MaximumFun.org

[1:26:37] oh darling why won't you accept my love my dear even though you are a duke I could never love you

[1:26:45] you you borrowed a book from me and never returned it

[1:26:50] ah save yourself from this terrible fate by listening to Reading Glasses. We'll help you

[1:26:56] get those borrowed books back and solve all your other reader problems. Reading Glasses every

[1:27:01] Thursday on Maximum Fun. Of course every week The Flop House is sponsored by listeners just like you

[1:27:09] who've become members at MaximumFun.org but this week The Flop House is also sponsored in part by

[1:27:16] Aura Frames. The best gifts feel like they're picked out just for you and with Aura Frames

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[1:27:36] Frames, Audrey and I. They're great because we put all of our wedding photos on there for one thing

[1:27:43] along with other photos that we update regularly and it's a way to be able to

[1:27:49] glance over and see memories of a happy day without having to dig out a you know an old-fashioned

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[1:29:14] of the year so take advantage of it now don't miss out terms and conditions apply and in more

[1:29:22] Flophouse specific news we are still in the middle of our Flop TV season our series of six one-hour

[1:29:30] live streaming shows you can get tickets at theflophouse.simpletext.com this is our second

[1:29:36] Flop TV season so we made this season all about sequels on our most recent episode we talked about

[1:29:43] Caddyshack 2 and along with that movie discussion there was also my ode to mediocre films that used

[1:29:49] to play on HBO in the 80s and Stuart interviewed the most iconic star of Caddyshack 2 so that's

[1:29:57] the sort of thing you can get what delights are in store for our next

[1:30:00] Episode when we discuss highlander to the quickening. Well, you'll have to watch to find out that one

[1:30:05] debuts on december 7th

[1:30:08] And I say debuts because that's when you can watch it live and chat along with other viewers if you uh like to do so

[1:30:14] But it will also be available to ticket holders until the end of our season which comes at the end of february 2025

[1:30:21] Tickets again can be gotten at theflophouse.simpletics.com

[1:30:25] For seven dollar per individual show or you can get a season pass

[1:30:30] For 35 which is the equivalent of getting one show for free and also

[1:30:35] New news. That's what makes it news. It's new

[1:30:39] If you prefer seeing us the flop house truly live

[1:30:43] In meet space where you can smell stewart's various cardigans and track suits

[1:30:48] Good news, the flop house is coming back to san francisco sketch fest

[1:30:52] In 2025

[1:30:54] January 2025 we were thrilled to be asked back

[1:30:57] And honestly with how busy elliot is these days

[1:31:00] This might be one of the only in-person live shows we can squeeze in for the next several months

[1:31:04] So if you are interested do not sleep on it. We will be back at cobb's comedy club

[1:31:10] on sunday, january 19

[1:31:13] 2025 at 7 p.m. And if you want tickets for that go to sf sketch fest.com

[1:31:20] And you can sort yourself out from there

[1:31:24] back to the show

[1:31:27] Uh, let's move on to letters from listeners. Uh, we got a couple of them

[1:31:31] This one is from matt last name withheld who writes

[1:31:35] I was recently perusing a record tent at a local flea market when I stumbled upon an incredible gym

[1:31:42] a pristine promotional copy of the cobra soundtrack

[1:31:45] Oh, wow, I don't recall if you mentioned it at your live show

[1:31:48] But the soundtrack is back-to-back bangers bruce springsteen tina turner impersonations

[1:31:54] jean

[1:31:55] bouvoir and gary wright deep cuts, sorry and some

[1:31:59] fantastically emotive work by prolific 80s soundtrack composer

[1:32:04] sylvester levay

[1:32:06] As this album both rules and is not available on spotify or presumably physically anywhere else on earth

[1:32:12] I plan to cherish it forever or at least until I finally watch the actual movie

[1:32:17] This leads me to ask

[1:32:19] Are there any movie soundtracks that you currently own or have owned in the past r-o-c-k in the usa matt?

[1:32:25] I mean, that's a wide open. I I don't know about you guys as a as a movie person. I own

[1:32:30] I own a lot of soundtracks. Uh, your apartment's lousy with them. Well, you can't walk anywhere

[1:32:35] Please just step over my soundtrack, but I feel like you've also gotten

[1:32:40] Like even recently I feel like you've gotten soundtracks before you saw the movie, right? Um

[1:32:46] in a couple of cases, I got the uh

[1:32:49] I got the I saw the tv glow soundtrack before I saw

[1:32:52] the movie because i'm like I am

[1:32:55] Pretty sure i'm gonna like this and it is

[1:32:58] you know like the there are a lot of limited pressings of these things these days in terms of like

[1:33:04] Getting it on. Yeah

[1:33:06] Got a new drab majesty song it rules

[1:33:09] I was gonna highlight a couple things. I mean, that's that's a good one. I was gonna say I have uh,

[1:33:14] I love the guest soundtrack specifically. Oh, yeah a lot of uh, sort of synth wavy sounds and alt, uh,

[1:33:23] pop and rock from a certain period and uh, I have the house house soundtrack, which is

[1:33:30] a great melange of like

[1:33:33] You know what you might expect out of a horror movie but also like

[1:33:37] This I this japanese idea of what like a blues song sound

[1:33:41] Is on the soundtrack and then there's like a lot of really like peppy jazzy sounds on there, too

[1:33:46] It's just a fun one. Yeah, it's your go-to uh doing it mix. Uh, do you have any soundtracks you like?

[1:33:51] uh, yeah, uh, there's a I mean there were two soundtrack compilations that I got when I was a teenager that

[1:33:58] I listened to over and over again and I can and I and have stuck with me all the time

[1:34:01] One was a compilation of aneo moricone

[1:34:03] songs that I got it because it had I already had the good the bad and the ugly soundtrack and I had the music for

[1:34:08] the first two man with no name movies and then just

[1:34:10] Random songs from other movies and then also the once upon a time in the west. Uh soundtrack was in there

[1:34:15] It was a lot of tracks and I loved like

[1:34:18] just hearing

[1:34:19] a title song or a random song from one of his movies and just be like

[1:34:23] Trying to think about what the movie was that went with this. I think they were all westerns

[1:34:26] But what what this was about?

[1:34:28] uh, and then

[1:34:29] Similar to that house's soundtrack. There was a disc I had that was

[1:34:32] Godzilla movie music from the first movie until I think the early 70s and

[1:34:38] It was great to hear

[1:34:39] In each movie. It's kind of like okay now here's the kind of jazzy number now. Here's the torch song number

[1:34:45] That's about king cesar the monster like here's that like there's all the having all these different styles

[1:34:51] in japanese applied to songs about monsters and they're just very

[1:34:56] It just was like oh, there's so much you could do with this stuff

[1:34:58] It doesn't all have to sound like the same thing over and over again

[1:35:00] So those are two albums I listen to a lot and just kind of would make up my own

[1:35:03] Kind of movie stories to go with them. What about you stewart?

[1:35:07] Oh, I mean, you know, I was a teenager in the 90s, uh, which I think was like the heyday of like, uh, soundtrack cds

[1:35:14] You know your tank girls your uh menace to society your aforementioned judgment night. Uh, the crow. Oh, wow

[1:35:22] Empire records you were a big fan of the empire record soundtrack, right front to back. Uh,

[1:35:26] Let's see, um, but yeah, I mean i'm trying to think of like re like obviously, uh one that I listen to

[1:35:33] regularly now is uh

[1:35:36] To live and die in la all wang chung, baby

[1:35:39] Um, let me see, uh, I mean I and like i've listened to a fair amount of like the various like johnny greenwood, uh,

[1:35:47] and the trent resner, uh scores

[1:35:50] Uh, though, I guess that's a little different than soundtracks

[1:35:53] Uh linda, what about you I will just say, uh, we did an episode of uh pop culture happy hour

[1:35:57] where we talked about best soundtrack albums ever and um

[1:36:01] It was fascinating to even try to figure out what we thought that meant

[1:36:05] Uh, and I will just say the the four that we picked. Uh, I picked uh, oh brother where art thou?

[1:36:11] Aisha picked waiting to exhale

[1:36:14] steven picked purple rain

[1:36:16] Purple rain and

[1:36:18] glenn weldon my beloved friend chose superman the movie

[1:36:22] So we talked so we talked a lot about kind of all the different things that go into them

[1:36:28] But I also like stewart

[1:36:30] Just owned a lot of like random ass

[1:36:33] Soundtracks, especially in the 90s because I would hear something and I would like the music and I would get the the cd

[1:36:37] I listened a lot

[1:36:39] To the league of their own soundtrack, which is uh, which has a lot of like

[1:36:44] Classics like takes on classics. Um, yeah, like kind of up to some of which are really garbage

[1:36:49] But I listened to it a lot. Uh, I listened a ton to the sleepless in seattle soundtrack stuff like that

[1:36:55] um a lot of

[1:36:57] They're like tales from the crypt demon knight soundtrack dan. Oh, man, that's some hard rock and roll on there, boy

[1:37:03] You got it. You got it buddy one that was played a lot in my house growing up

[1:37:06] Not by me was the forest gump double cd soundtrack

[1:37:09] It was as if they took they like reached their hands into my dad's head and just pulled out two cds

[1:37:15] Like and I think for him. Yeah, how how did they do it?

[1:37:18] They put my memories on discs. There are a lot of those compilation ones like the uh, I also talked about the american graffiti one

[1:37:24] That's exactly what I was about to say

[1:37:25] The american graffiti one is is just like just endless

[1:37:28] Hits and bangers and all hits no skips pretty much if you like that era and that type of music

[1:37:34] I mean, I feel like the big chill is mostly remembered today as like, oh all your motown favorites, you know

[1:37:41] um

[1:37:42] Okay. Well this next question is from tom last name was held who writes as a longtime listener

[1:37:48] Some of the flop house's unique phrases have made their way into my everyday lexicon

[1:37:54] Sorry, this came to a head when one of my young children in a fit of anger called me a bad dad soccer dad

[1:38:00] Ah

[1:38:02] Oh got him

[1:38:04] I was taken aback by this because I don't listen to episodes with my kids

[1:38:07] That's something a bad dad soccer dad would do and I don't recall ever using the phrase around them

[1:38:13] Since then the phrase has continued to evolve within my family

[1:38:16] My wife has been accused of being a bad mom soccer mom

[1:38:20] And I was eventually redeemed and earned the title of good dad soccer dad. Oh, thank goodness. Yeah

[1:38:26] Um, are there any odd or obscure phrases from a movie or other forms of media that have made their way into your households keep

[1:38:33] on flopping in the free world tom

[1:38:37] Can I do mine? Yeah

[1:38:39] Okay, I was one of a very tiny number of people who actually watched the fox show married by america in the early aughts

[1:38:46] Uh in which a bunch of people were thrown together

[1:38:49] uh

[1:38:50] And supposed to get married. Nobody got married

[1:38:52] Um, it's a it's a whole dark chapter in the history of reality dating shows

[1:38:57] But there was an amazing moment in this show and I wrote recaps of it

[1:38:59] Which is why I watched the whole thing and uh, there's an amazing moment in this show where this woman

[1:39:04] Uh, this guy comes out to this woman. He's supposed to marry he comes outside and she's sitting in the garden

[1:39:09] and uh, he says to her

[1:39:12] What you doing? And she says eating an apple because she's eating an apple

[1:39:17] And there are at least two people in my life I can think of

[1:39:20] Where if I today said to them what you're doing, they would say eating an apple

[1:39:27] And it's not funny out outside of the context of married by america, but in the context of married by america

[1:39:33] absolutely amazing

[1:39:36] This is a tough one because I feel like honestly

[1:39:39] Most of the way I communicate is through esoteric references. So then it's hard to then think of a specific one

[1:39:46] whenever uh asked but

[1:39:49] To harken back to uh, yeah, you're like, uh, I just say skip to malou mcnuggets all the time

[1:39:58] A large percentage

[1:40:00] Uh, this is not actually so much a specific line reference or anything just like a reference to a movie title

[1:40:09] But audrey and I have taken to calling, you know

[1:40:12] If if one of us is like going to go out and do something

[1:40:16] On our own during the day like have a day. We call it a baby's day out

[1:40:21] Oh, you know you can take a baby's day out. Okay. Yeah

[1:40:24] I mean, I feel like there's a million of these that my wife and I share lately

[1:40:28] Uh, so I won't I won't try and remember all of them

[1:40:31] But lately a lot of it is me just randomly doing, uh, you know, anytime we're watching

[1:40:36] Uh the news and hear a particularly good new york accent. I it makes me have to do my best the penguin impression

[1:40:45] Just being like you're a good kid vic you're a good kid

[1:40:49] I love it. We have a lot of them in our house, too

[1:40:51] but I think the one that comes to mind most is that is

[1:40:54] The uh something that laser wolf says in fiddler on the roof where he's talking about how he doesn't have any

[1:41:00] bad blood between him and tevye after tevye broke his

[1:41:02] Agreement to marry uh tevye's daughter and he goes what it's done and he mimes a butcher's knife chopping off his fingers is done

[1:41:10] So sometimes let's talk about something that can't be changed. I go what's done

[1:41:13] It's done and i'll mime a butcher's knife chopping my fingers off because that's it

[1:41:17] I think it's so funny because it's like he's a butcher everything. He knows is butcher stuff

[1:41:21] So and it ties into today's movie it does

[1:41:24] It does because he was trapped in the shtetl. Yes, exactly

[1:41:29] Yeah, although then they were trapped making a kick by being kicked out of the shuttle. Yeah

[1:41:32] Um, let us uh do our final segment of the show, which is recommendations. Would you say tradition is a trap elliot?

[1:41:40] Well, it's interesting you say that let's get into it because tradition in some ways

[1:41:45] It's the boundaries you can't pass beyond in some ways. It's the structure that holds you up tevye in the beginning

[1:41:50] He's saying tradition is what helps them keep their balance. But what happens when the world takes the roof away?

[1:41:55] How do you keep your balance then you have to build new traditions?

[1:41:58] I think that's what's going to happen in my sequel tevye in america

[1:42:02] Tevye goes west. I mean, it's basically an american tale. Yeah

[1:42:08] Um, he's got his little six guns. Oh, man, it's great. Go go dan even though this is literally something I would I mean

[1:42:14] And they and the frisco kid is a different version of this

[1:42:17] I have literally wanted to do something for years where somewhere where a jew goes from the palo settlement to the old west

[1:42:24] But it's but it's a herschel that like the the legendary, you know

[1:42:27] Clever jew who can out who can outsmart demons and things and i'm like I want to see that guy

[1:42:32] Dealing with cowboys and stuff, but someday i'll have to write it someday, you know

[1:42:36] Yeah, even though we you know may not give you

[1:42:40] A hard side eye if you decide to spend some time watching trap

[1:42:44] Yeah, this is the part you might give you a hard cider and say enjoy yourself. Yeah

[1:42:48] Kick back. Uh, this is the part where we recommend movies that you know, also maybe check these ones out

[1:42:53] uh, I actually have a a quick double recommendation two movies I saw lately that struck me as

[1:42:59] Ones may be good to watch right now

[1:43:02] Not gonna get uh deep into like the political landscape, but there are reasons why I was like

[1:43:07] Oh, you know what? These are these make me feel a little bit better right now

[1:43:12] Uh, one was uh, i'm gonna take a page from elliot's book

[1:43:17] Recommend daisies check new wave film. What a movie, uh, which you know

[1:43:23] there's a lot of other stuff going on there including like

[1:43:26] Political levels that i'm not smart enough to uh tease out but on its very pleasant surface level

[1:43:32] a lot of it is just

[1:43:34] two women

[1:43:35] Uh being goofy and having fun

[1:43:37] I think it is so funny that you say on its very pleasant surface level level because that is an assaultive movie

[1:43:42] Like that movie is assaulting the viewer often it is but in like, you know, I would say that the thing that

[1:43:48] You know

[1:43:49] It's very much its own thing

[1:43:50] But the thing it reminds me of most is say like a richard lester movie like uh hard day's night that sort of style

[1:43:57] Like it's it's anarchy, but it's a lot of fun anarchy and a lot of beautiful anarchy. It's it's it looks lovely

[1:44:04] a lot of tinted uh

[1:44:06] Film experiments and doing different things with stock. Um, but

[1:44:12] it's nice to see

[1:44:14] A movie that has a lot of sort of like joyful silliness with a couple of women at the center. Also, uh last night

[1:44:21] I saw at uh, the new york, uh documentary film festival

[1:44:26] our old friend and co-worker, uh, trayvon free, uh from the daily show was in town because he executive produced a

[1:44:35] Uh a documentary called

[1:44:37] all god's children directed by

[1:44:40] And I apologize if I get the name pronunciation a little wrong

[1:44:44] Andi timoner who did dig was what i'd seen her do before

[1:44:49] uh, and this documentary is about

[1:44:52] a rabbi and

[1:44:54] uh minister from a black church working together to sort of

[1:44:59] bridge, uh

[1:45:01] Racial divides within the two communities in brooklyn

[1:45:04] and um

[1:45:06] just sort of inviting one another to like their respective worships and

[1:45:10] It's a movie that is all the more sort of powerful because it doesn't make

[1:45:15] You know bridging those divides look easy

[1:45:17] there are parts in the movie where people get very mad at each other and hurt each other's feelings and

[1:45:23] and say

[1:45:24] Things that uh, they don't see why it's hurtful, but the other person is hurt

[1:45:30] But it is ultimately

[1:45:32] Joyful and affirming because it shows that these are people who are

[1:45:36] committed to understanding each other committed to learning to love one another

[1:45:41] and uh to overcome sort of external

[1:45:44] racism and anti-semitism and uh

[1:45:47] So it you know, it it it made me feel good at a time that I needed to so

[1:45:53] Uh, those are the two daisies and all god's children

[1:45:57] I'm gonna recommend a horror movie, uh called as real

[1:46:02] uh, it is uh set in a like a

[1:46:05] post-apocalyptic

[1:46:07] post-rapture future

[1:46:08] uh, and the characters all basically all belong to a

[1:46:13] Religious cult who have taken a vow of silence. So there is no dialogue in this movie

[1:46:18] and uh, yeah, it's uh about a

[1:46:22] A couple that try to leave this community, but then get pulled back in

[1:46:27] Uh, and there's uh, like monster zombie things running around, uh that like get drawn by blood or noise or something

[1:46:34] I don't really remember

[1:46:35] Um, it's it's uh fun and exciting. Uh, the lead is played by samara weaving who is always great

[1:46:42] She's always great very captivating performer

[1:46:44] Uh, and it goes to some pretty uh nutty places

[1:46:47] So if uh that kind of a thing sounds up your alley check out as real

[1:46:53] Uh, i'll go next i'll go next i'm gonna recommend i'm gonna because dan mentioned daisies and cn2 ladies having fun being goofy

[1:47:01] I'm going to re-recommend very quickly. Celine and julie go boating, which I recommended

[1:47:06] I don't like a month or two ago in which I think of all the movies i've seen this year

[1:47:10] That's probably the one that sticks in my sticks on my ribs the most

[1:47:14] Uh and has kept meaning the most to me, but i'm also going to recommend a very dumb movie

[1:47:18] Uh that I enjoyed recently, which I think I mentioned on a mini i've been watching

[1:47:22] I can't remember which is toby hooper's life force from 1985, which is

[1:47:27] Should it's based on a novel called the space vampires and it should have been called the space vampires. It is a

[1:47:33] very uh

[1:47:35] At times lavishly made at times somewhat cheaply made science fiction horror movie in which astronauts

[1:47:42] Find a spaceship full of vampires in a comet and the lead vampire is a naked lady and she forms a sort of

[1:47:49] sexual psychic mind meld with astronaut steve rails back which leads to

[1:47:53] essentially a remake of quatermast and the pit as london falls under a

[1:47:57] Brainwashing spell and it is a movie that

[1:48:00] Part of the fun of it is watching it spin off the rails and really like get too big for its britches

[1:48:05] There's a certain point where they're just like oh, by the way

[1:48:07] London is under martial law and we're blowing things up in it and you're like this movie got escalated fast

[1:48:11] And but there's some very um, there's very fun moments in it

[1:48:15] Uh, there's a lot of great kind of gross special effects in it

[1:48:19] Uh, it feels like what it is

[1:48:21] Which is toby hooper being given more money than he should probably be playing with at that moment without a full story

[1:48:27] and for those of you who like me are

[1:48:30] Heterosexual men, there's a naked lady in it who's naked for a lot of the movies. So

[1:48:34] That's life force

[1:48:35] That's life force for you. Yeah

[1:48:37] All right, uh christmas decision time

[1:48:40] Would you rather have one minute on red one where the rock and chris evans save christmas after santa is kidnapped?

[1:48:46] Or would you rather have one minute on hot frosty on netflix where a woman might fuck frosty the snow now?

[1:48:53] Gotta be the second one

[1:48:55] Any clarity though? Are you recommending the red one? That's that seems out of for real. Okay. Yeah. Oh for real

[1:49:02] Yeah, we talked about it. Yeah, we are. Yeah

[1:49:04] It's it's very very silly, but I I had a great time

[1:49:08] Okay, the rock acts like he doesn't know it's a comedy because I it works

[1:49:11] I feel like it's gonna end up on our roster eventually, but uh, it very well might it very well might it would

[1:49:17] It's my kids. They when I took them to see the wild robot, which they thought was so so

[1:49:22] Uh, they all they could talk about was the red one trailer for weeks afterwards. They brought up the other day

[1:49:27] They wanted they're like can we see red one? And I was like the the big red one

[1:49:32] Color movie like no, no the one with this with santa and i'm like

[1:49:35] Take them take them to see it in 4dx. They'll get thrown around and breeze blown in their face

[1:49:40] It was one of the most unpleasant experiences i've ever had, but I had a great time. Anyway, all right

[1:49:46] uh on netflix lacey chabert late of party of five, but also mean girls plays a woman who

[1:49:52] Uh puts a scarf around the neck of a hot snowman played by dustin milligan who played ted on shit. No, man

[1:49:59] He's been snowman

[1:50:00] Yeah, he's been sculpted like a Greek god, he comes to life, he is an innocent because

[1:50:08] he has never been in the world before, and she's very embarrassed by him because he doesn't

[1:50:13] know anything and she has a snowman following her around.

[1:50:16] He is also on the radar of the local police for when he was first brought to life running

[1:50:21] around with no clothes on except his scarf.

[1:50:24] So he is being pursued by local law enforcement, Craig Robinson and Joe Lottrullio as the local

[1:50:30] police.

[1:50:31] It is exactly what it should be, they made it exactly correctly, they cared about all

[1:50:38] the right things and none of the wrong things, and it has a great and warm-hearted Lindsay

[1:50:45] Lohan joke, which I appreciate it.

[1:50:47] Hot Frosty on Netflix, absolutely recommend.

[1:50:50] Okay, Hot Frosty.

[1:50:53] Hot Frosty, weirdly enough, also my Wendy's order.

[1:50:57] Okay.

[1:50:58] Well, I was saying the other day, it kind of sounds like what they call it when somebody

[1:51:02] kisses you with a slushie in their mouth, you know?

[1:51:06] Stuart is slowly turning into Johnny Carson, very slowly.

[1:51:10] Linda, thank you for catching us in your trap of telling us to do trap and then saying yes

[1:51:17] when we asked you to be on the guest for trap.

[1:51:19] We will be caught in such a trap anytime, we're delighted whenever you call us.

[1:51:24] Dan, are they paying you by the use of the word trap, what's going on?

[1:51:27] Dan's getting host for it.

[1:51:28] Yeah, I'm sponsored by traps.

[1:51:29] Literally for anything, happy to come back to be the defender of red wine.

[1:51:32] Oh, well, that's a good idea, all right.

[1:51:38] So yeah, thank you very much for being here.

[1:51:40] Thank you also to Alex Smith, our producer, you can find him by the name Howell Dottie

[1:51:47] on Blue Sky, for instance, a place that's more pleasant to be than other places.

[1:51:53] And thank you to our network, Maximum Fun, go to MaximumFun.org for a lot of other great

[1:51:59] podcasts on the network, a lot of funny ones, a lot of informative ones, check them out.

[1:52:05] But for the Flophouse, I have been Dan McCoy.

[1:52:07] I've been Stuart Wellington.

[1:52:09] I've been Elliot Kalin, and we've been joined by Linda Holmes.

[1:52:12] Okay, bye, don't get trapped.

[1:52:16] I'm going to say that every time someone leaves from now.

[1:52:21] If you do, shred your receipt.

[1:52:31] You want to hear a good story?

[1:52:32] Yes.

[1:52:33] Yesterday was my birthday.

[1:52:34] All right.

[1:52:35] My parents, that's not a good story.

[1:52:37] My parents are both not in a position to remember my birthday anymore and do not call me.

[1:52:44] But yesterday, for the first time ever, my 26-year-old nephew spontaneously called me

[1:52:48] on my birthday.

[1:52:49] Wow.

[1:52:50] Gross.

[1:52:51] Which was just like a young dude who recently ran a triathlon.

[1:52:55] Wow.

[1:52:56] Yeah.

[1:52:57] Upsetting.

[1:52:58] Well, you know, let the youth have their triathlons.

[1:53:04] I got to get birthday wishes and discuss hydration.

[1:53:09] How to keep enough salt in your system.

[1:53:13] That's one thing I've heard about like long hikes and shit is that if you don't have enough

[1:53:17] salt in your body, your body all collapses.

[1:53:20] Well, apparently, Iron Man, this is an actual Iron Man triathlon.

[1:53:24] Apparently, Iron Man made a controversial change to the energy drink that they hand

[1:53:29] out on the course.

[1:53:30] It used to be Gatorade, and now it's some bullshit.

[1:53:32] He said it made him sick.

[1:53:34] Prime.

[1:53:35] What I'm telling you is, this was super fun, this phone call.

[1:53:40] I just ate half a focaccia panini with mortadella, burrata, and pesto on it, and I'm like, this

[1:53:46] is all the salt I'll ever need to eat.

[1:53:49] Okay, guys.

[1:53:50] Elliot has a hard out, as he told me right beforehand.

[1:53:52] This is all good stuff for Howling Supone.

[1:53:54] No, I know, but it's not part of the show, per se.

[1:53:56] I only just started working on my side.

[1:53:58] Let's do a count-off.

[1:54:00] Maximum fun.

[1:54:02] A worker-owned network.

[1:54:03] Of artist-owned shows.

[1:54:05] Supported.

[1:54:06] Directly.

[1:54:07] By you.

Ep.#438 - Trap, with Linda Holmes

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