Ep.#437 - Megalopolis, with Roman Mars

Elliott Kalan

[0:00] Hi, Floppers. Before we start this episode, I just wanted to remind you we are in the middle of FlopTV Season 2.

[0:06] That's right, the one-hour internet televised Flophouse TV show is here for you the first Saturday of every month through February.

[0:14] Just go to theflophouse.simpleticks.com and get your tickets or season pass for this all-new Flophouse TV stuff.

[0:22] We're covering movies we've never covered before. We've got video segments. It's amazing.

[0:27] Just go to theflophouse.simpleticks.com for FlopTV Season 2. This time, it's personal.

Dan McCoy

[0:33] On this episode, we discuss Megalopolis.

Elliott Kalan

[0:37] I got a feeling this is going to be a mega love fest.

Stuart Wellington

[0:42] That's a good one. Yum, yum.

[0:45] You do that.

[0:46] Delish.

[0:47] Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Flophouse. I'm Dan McCoy.

Dan McCoy

[1:13] I'm Stuart Wellington.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14] I'm Elliot Kalin.

[1:16] And I'm Roman Mars.

[1:17] Wait, what? Hold on a second.

[1:18] What?

[1:18] Oh, my God.

[1:19] How did you get here?

[1:20] How did you get here?

[1:23] Dan, I told you, you've got to have your apartment fumigated.

Dan McCoy

[1:26] You've got to get the Roman Mars infestation.

[1:28] Someone much more respectable got in here somehow.

S4

[1:30] I got on my lit-up moving sidewalk, and I landed right here.

Elliott Kalan

[1:36] Wow, in the city of the future, a.k.a. the Flopass.

[1:39] That's right.

Dan McCoy

[1:40] Yeah, well, we, you know, this is a special movie, a very special movie.

[1:45] So we have a very special guest.

[1:47] Elliot, why don't you talk a little bit about Roman being on the show?

[1:50] Because you have been doing some work with, you've been moonlighting, you've been cheating on us with another podcast.

Elliott Kalan

[1:56] It's been so exciting to be discovering new things with another host, discovering new things about myself, showing them things about me that you guys have gotten bored with.

[2:06] It's made you a better co-host of the Flopass, honestly.

[2:09] In some ways, yeah, because I'm more excited.

[2:11] I come in and I kiss you guys and I give you flowers, and you're like, what's this?

[2:14] You haven't done this in years.

[2:15] And I've got a spring in my step and a song in my heart.

[2:17] So Megalopolis is a special movie in that it feels like it is so indebted to the ideas of city building that come from having read The Power Broker and then forgotten most of what was in the book.

[2:30] And so what better person have come talk to us than Roman Mars, with whom I have been co-hosting the 99% Invisible Breakdown, The Power Broker.

[2:37] All throughout this year, we have been taking on one of the greatest works of nonfiction writing, or I would say writing, period, in American literature, The Power Broker by Robert Caro.

[2:48] Every month, we break down 100 pages of it.

[2:50] We just recorded our penultimate summary episode.

[2:54] Oh, wow.

[2:54] We actually made our way through most of the book at this point.

[2:57] Wow.

[2:57] And so The Power Broker is always on our minds.

[3:00] And this movie Megalopolis, there's so much about it that is so clearly indebted to a certain idea of Robert Moses.

[3:07] It's the subject of The Power Broker.

[3:08] And indebted in a way that is totally weird and doesn't really work and is messed up.

[3:14] And so we wanted to bring Roman on to talk about that aspect of it.

[3:18] And also have a little bit of synergistic cross-promotion between these two endeavors.

Stuart Wellington

[3:26] I thought because we're talking about a movie that's all about New Rome, we would bring in the best Roman we know.

S4

[3:32] Yeah, it was just a name-based pun scenario.

[3:34] An actual Roman, yeah.

[3:35] Yeah.

[3:37] No, I'm very happy to be here.

[3:38] Thank you so much for having me.

[3:39] And I don't think if I kind of needed a sort of a work excuse to see this movie because it looked a little bit, I don't know, like something I wouldn't necessarily see on my own.

Elliott Kalan

[3:52] You mean you wouldn't make this as I did the only movie I've seen in the theater for the past couple months?

S4

[3:57] As soon as we decided that I would see it for the show, I was very excited to take it in.

[4:06] But anyway, we'll get to that.

[4:07] But anyway, we'll get to that.

Dan McCoy

[4:08] No, I mean, I'm on this show all the time and I had a similar experience where I'm like, well, I mean, maybe it's partly because I'm like, well, we'll probably have to watch that eventually.

[4:18] So I don't need to run out to the theater to do it.

[4:20] But then when we all decided to do this together, I'm like, oh, great.

[4:23] I can see it on a big screen.

[4:25] I can see all the nutty vision of Francis Ford Coppola, all of the ideas that he's been saving up for decades and put them all in one script, whether they all belong in the same script or not.

[4:35] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[4:35] What was the last one we did in the last Flophouse in the Isles we did?

[4:40] Oh, jeez.

[4:40] The last Exorcist, I think.

Elliott Kalan

[4:41] The one with Russell Crowe.

[4:43] Was Madame Web since then?

[4:45] Oh, Madame Web was, oh, did we?

[4:48] No, you know what?

[4:48] I saw it in the theater.

[4:49] That was in the theaters when we saw it.

[4:49] Yeah, yeah.

[4:50] What a movie.

[4:51] That was the theater movie.

[4:52] Guys, can we talk about Madame Web?

Stuart Wellington

[4:54] Well, I mean, another time, maybe.

[4:56] You know, her web connects us all.

[4:57] Kind of like how Megalon connects all these houses.

[5:00] Yeah, yeah, sure.

Elliott Kalan

[5:02] So, the other thing about this movie is that I wanted to see it in the theaters because unlike every other movie we've seen where there's a reasonable expectation it will be available for home viewing.

[5:12] And like, they're like, gotta see this new Marvel or Star Wars movie or whatever in the theaters.

[5:15] I'm like, I don't have to because I'll be able to see it on my nicely sized JCP at home.

[5:20] This movie conceivably could disappear.

[5:23] It is a Francis Ford Coppola owned thing.

[5:25] It's amazing to me that it was a national release movie.

[5:28] And it's very possible that it may disappear after this.

[5:32] I don't think it will.

[5:33] I think it will be home viewing somewhere.

[5:34] But this is such an indie film in so many ways that it's potentially unavailable at a certain point.

[5:42] So, we had to see it when we could see it.

Dan McCoy

[5:43] I guess I see what you're saying in the sense that the response to this was so – I mean, there are people who are like, wow, big swing.

[5:52] Love you, Francis.

[5:53] But like for the most part, very negative that there could be a part of them that's like, well, I'm taking my ball and going back to my vineyard.

[5:59] But like –

[6:01] He doesn't have a vineyard anymore.

[6:03] Oh, yeah.

[6:03] He only sold part of it.

Elliott Kalan

[6:05] He only sold part of the vineyard.

Dan McCoy

[6:07] But if he wants to recoup anything, like it has to go to streaming.

[6:10] It has to be available somewhere.

Elliott Kalan

[6:11] It's more that – so, it was distributed theatrically by Lionsgate.

[6:14] But it's more like I can see a world where a large distributor is like, we don't want to handle this.

[6:19] And so, he has to scramble to find some way.

[6:21] And maybe it's up on – maybe it's Francis Ford Coppola's YouTube channel that he uploads all of Megalopolis to in 10 chapters or something like that.

Stuart Wellington

[6:28] Yeah, his TikTok channel.

[6:29] He just splits it all up.

[6:31] But in a world where you can –

[6:32] Wait a minute.

Stuart Wellington

[6:32] Didn't Lionsgate also distribute Borderlands this year?

[6:36] Man, they're having a tough one.

Elliott Kalan

[6:38] It's been a great year for Lionsgate.

[6:40] But in a world where even movies that are owned by corporations are not readily available the way that they maybe once were or that we assume they are.

[6:48] To have a movie that is one – literally one guy paid for it himself.

[6:52] Yeah.

[6:52] It is – anyway.

[6:54] That's a long way of saying like I had to see it in the theater because it was the first time in years

[6:57] that a movie has come out where I'd be like this might be my only chance to see this movie.

[7:01] And of course, maybe it will be on HBO Max next week.

[7:04] I don't know.

[7:04] But I was like this could be my only shot.

[7:06] Yeah.

S4

[7:07] There was only one theater showing it when I was looking for the Bay Area.

[7:11] Well, it was – there was maybe a couple but it was like showing at 3 p.m. or something at Emory Bay.

[7:17] Makes sense with the Bay Area.

Elliott Kalan

[7:18] Tech companies hate this guy.

[7:20] No, but that's –

[7:20] That's Copa Country.

[7:21] That's Copa Country.

[7:22] That's the Bay Area.

[7:23] His offices were in San Francisco.

[7:25] He lives up over in the Napa area.

S4

[7:27] And then we ended up seeing it at the Kabuki.

[7:29] My wife and I saw the Kabuki Theater in Japantown in San Francisco which was – we went to dinner ahead of time.

[7:34] Pretty on the nose name for a theater in Japantown.

[7:38] But it was a weird experience.

[7:41] That was a weird vibe.

Dan McCoy

[7:43] I want to ask, how does your wife feel about our podcast now that you composed this?

S4

[7:49] There was about midway through the movie where she looked at me and she said, why is Francis Ford Coppola doing this to us?

[7:58] But it started from the very beginning.

[8:00] We sat down at an empty theater.

[8:03] It didn't stay empty but it started empty.

[8:05] We were there early.

[8:06] Like just – we just got there after dinner.

[8:08] And the place is completely empty.

[8:10] And then this older white woman comes and sits right next to my wife.

[8:16] Like the theater is empty.

[8:18] There's two of us.

Elliott Kalan

[8:19] Your wife is a very friendly person.

[8:20] There's something very welcoming about her.

[8:22] So I get it.

[8:22] Yeah.

S4

[8:23] I was like – and it already started.

[8:24] I was like, oh, this is – there's a weird vibe here that you would want to sit right next to us in this little pack.

[8:30] And then it just kept on getting weird because more and more people sat like glommed on right around us.

[8:35] Maybe they just wanted to sort of like sit mostly in the middle because it's a spectacle and whatever.

[8:40] But it started out weird.

[8:42] It just got weirder.

Dan McCoy

[8:44] Yeah.

[8:44] Well, speaking of how weird it gets, Stuart, you took notes.

[8:49] We all saw this, as we said, in the theater because that's the way we could do it.

[8:53] I respect you for –

Stuart Wellington

[8:55] I took the notes in the dark of the Alamo.

[8:57] Yeah, being able to do that.

[8:59] Well, I mean, we're going to see how good these notes are since I transcribed them onto note cards.

[9:04] And I'm like, what the fuck does this say?

[9:07] To be fair, this is –

[9:08] Surely you couldn't say that about Claudio.

Elliott Kalan

[9:10] This is an intricate puzzle box of a movie.

[9:13] Every link indelibly forged to the next so that it just like – it's airtight.

[9:18] The movie is airtight.

Stuart Wellington

[9:19] So I'm going to need some help here, guys.

[9:21] So Megalopolis, movie opens with what?

[9:25] Like a title card, right?

[9:28] That's like Megalopolis, a fable.

Dan McCoy

[9:31] Yeah.

[9:32] And like right off the bat is like, hey, modern society is kind of like Rome if you think about it.

Elliott Kalan

[9:41] It's true.

[9:41] I mean, it is a movie that is – it is a movie that one – anytime a filmmaker puts a fable at the end of their title, you go, this movie is not going to make sense.

[9:50] This is a – that's calling it a fable really – it's like when we did North a while back.

[9:57] I was thinking about these interviews I've heard with Alan Zweibel who wrote North and he just kept saying, it's a fable.

[10:03] Like it's a fairy tale.

[10:05] Why do people dislike it?

[10:06] It's like you can't just – you can't bandage over a movie that doesn't make sense by calling it a fable.

Dan McCoy

[10:10] It's the equivalent of being like I washed my hands of this at the beginning of the movie.

Elliott Kalan

[10:14] It's like when a political candidate says something racist and they're like, it was a joke.

[10:19] Come on, everybody.

[10:20] Like when people have liked it, you wouldn't say it was a joke.

[10:22] But anyway, that never happens.

[10:24] But you're right, Stuart.

[10:25] At the very beginning, they start with their thesis statement.

[10:27] Hey, America is kind of like Rome.

[10:28] Is America going to fall like Rome does?

Stuart Wellington

[10:31] And we have like title cards that look like they're chiseled into marble.

[10:34] So you're like, oh, that's like classic Roman shit.

[10:37] Okay, so let's just talk about some of the characters and then we'll get into the plot.

[10:42] I think that's easy.

[10:44] So our hero –

Elliott Kalan

[10:44] Easier than trying to walk us through the actual sequence, which is baffling.

[10:49] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[10:50] Our protagonist is Caesar Catalina, played by Adam Driver.

[10:55] It's impossible to say this name and not smile.

[10:57] I mean, come on.

[10:58] Yeah, because you're eating a Catalina Island.

[10:59] Uh-huh, and it's a Caesar salad.

[11:01] I love it.

Elliott Kalan

[11:03] The ultimate fantasy of eating a Caesar salad on Catalina Island.

S4

[11:06] Or with Catalina dressing on it.

[11:08] Oh, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[11:09] Stop it.

[11:09] Stop it, guys.

[11:11] Turn the cameras off.

[11:12] It's two type of salads in one.

Elliott Kalan

[11:16] So he is the head –

[11:17] They prophesied a sandwich like this, the ultra salad.

Stuart Wellington

[11:20] He is the genius head of the design authority of New Rome,

[11:25] whose task is to design things like buildings and plan out the city, right?

[11:32] City planning type stuff.

Elliott Kalan

[11:33] He is the master builder of New Rome.

Stuart Wellington

[11:36] He is also the inventor or discoverer of Megalon, a magic super substance.

[11:44] Yes.

[11:44] The middle of the future, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[11:46] He also has the ability to stop time.

[11:49] Oh, yes.

[11:50] And I do not object to this film having a magical, realist component.

[11:58] I don't even particularly object to it not being explained why he can do this,

[12:02] because what explanation would be appropriate?

[12:05] Would be necessary.

Elliott Kalan

[12:06] I mean, it's –

Dan McCoy

[12:06] But this is a very large, bizarre element to be added to the film with no appearance.

[12:16] I mean, I wouldn't say no apparent, but it seems like it should have more thematic heft or something

[12:22] if you're going to put this thing in there.

[12:24] I mean, I might be just too dumb to realize what's going on.

Elliott Kalan

[12:27] I think you're right that it does not work on a plot level.

[12:30] I mean, I would say that when you say magical, realist, the issue is that there is no realist aspect to this.

[12:35] It's just all magic.

[12:37] And Adam Driver's character is so clearly a stand-in for the artist and, in this case, the filmmaker.

[12:44] And I think his ability to stop time is supposed to be the artist's ability to reshape the world around them

[12:50] even more explicitly than him just building buildings and stuff like that.

[12:54] True.

[12:54] But you're right.

[12:54] He doesn't do anything with it.

[12:56] Like, he never uses it for anything.

S4

[12:57] As a plot device, it is like an anti-Chekhov's gun.

[13:00] Like, it never pays off in any meaningful way of how the story goes.

[13:04] Especially when you're talking about someone who is struggling in a power play.

[13:08] You think, why don't you use some of your time-stopping powers to achieve your ends or something.

Stuart Wellington

[13:14] Stop time and pull the mayor's pants down so he looks ridiculous when you start timing him.

[13:17] If Megalopolis was released as a series of episodes, the nerds in the Megalopolis subreddit would be like,

[13:23] why isn't Caesar using his powers?

Elliott Kalan

[13:26] They'd be like, I know.

[13:27] In the last episode, he's going to use his powers to do X, X, and Y.

[13:31] And then when the show doesn't do what they thought it was going to do, they'll be like, this show sucks.

[13:34] This show sucks.

Stuart Wellington

[13:35] I think also, to me, an element of this time-stop power is like it plays into the fantasy of a guy who is trying to achieve something amazing,

[13:45] but he is beset by all this other stuff, all this background noise, so many things like distracting him from what he's trying to do,

[13:52] and the fantasy of being able to just stop everything and focus on the one thing he wants to work on.

[13:57] Is that like, to me, especially for like a filmmaker like Coppola, I'm sure that that's part of it for him.

Elliott Kalan

[14:02] Well, it reminds me of the story I've heard about Stanley Kubrick and Jerry Lewis talking,

[14:08] that they were both editing movies at the same facility and both took a break at the same time,

[14:13] and Jerry Lewis was like, well, you can't polish a turd.

[14:16] And Kubrick says, you can if you freeze it.

[14:18] And this idea that if you can just stop time, then you can do the work that otherwise would be impossible.

[14:24] You know, if you could just freeze something in place, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[14:27] Sorry, I got a leg cramp, so I'm dancing around my chair.

[14:31] Okay, so that's Cesar Catalina.

[14:33] We know who he is.

[14:34] He's super cool.

[14:35] Now, the mayor of New Rome is in a bit of a pickle.

[14:37] That's Mayor Frank Cicero, played by Giancarlo Esposito, who plays in a little hammy.

[14:44] I feel like Adam Driver is pretty straight in this one.

[14:47] I don't know about that.

Dan McCoy

[14:50] I would say he's – I mean, he's – like, Driver is big.

[14:54] Like, you can't not be in this movie.

[14:55] I mean, like, the one – I mean, there are some performances that aren't big, and they suffer for it.

[14:59] I think that I admire –

Elliott Kalan

[15:00] And the best performances in the movie are the biggest performances, I feel like.

Dan McCoy

[15:04] Well, I – here's what I'd say.

[15:06] There are very hammy performances in this movie that are fun to watch because what else are you going to do in a movie called Megalopolis with all this stuff in it than chew the scenery?

[15:15] And then there's Adam Driver who magically seems to create a grounded and consistent character.

[15:21] Yeah.

[15:21] Despite the movie around him being gibberish.

[15:23] Like, he's amazing.

[15:25] And then there's – we'll get to her.

[15:27] But, like, the female lead is sort of lost in this movie because she is giving a small performance and the movie is not helping her out.

[15:33] Yeah.

[15:34] Who plays the daughter.

[15:35] Who I think is good in other things but is sort of not served by this film at all.

Stuart Wellington

[15:39] Yeah, did you see her in that John Woo killer remake where she does the very realistic jump and then latch her legs around a guy's neck and spin around shooting every other dude in the room?

[15:49] It's amazing.

[15:50] It's a solid move.

[15:51] It's cool.

[15:52] I mean, if you're going to use a move –

[15:52] That's why people do it all the time.

Elliott Kalan

[15:53] That's why it's such a common move.

[15:55] Yeah.

[15:55] It's a great move, but you can only do it once.

[15:57] Now, Adam Driver is set up – it feels like it's set up at first.

[16:00] This is the movie I was expecting at least was it is a battle between the mayor and the designer over the future of this portion of the city.

[16:08] And they each have competing goals and we're going to see the pros and cons of each.

[16:12] And it quickly becomes – even though Adam Driver is kind of a Robert Mosley character, it quickly becomes, no, he's a genius.

[16:17] And everyone needs to just, like, SDFU and let him do whatever he wants to do, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[16:22] Yeah.

[16:23] And this kind of comes to a head in the first scene where we're also introduced to the mayor's daughter, Julia Cicero, who seems to be a vapid club girl.

[16:33] But she – but it turns out that she's much more than that.

[16:38] If anything, because she is able to witness Caesar when he stops time, she – it stops for her as well and she can see what's going on.

Elliott Kalan

[16:46] She can witness the stopping of time and it doesn't affect her, which seems to be an indicator, yeah, that she has a hidden – she has the hidden artistic, you know, ability or at least intellectual skill that Caesar has.

Stuart Wellington

[16:59] And then the last, like, big faction, I guess, in this is Crassus, who is the owner of the largest bank.

[17:06] He's a very rich old man played by Jon Voight who – guys, I think he knew what he was doing here.

[17:12] He brings a lot of juice.

Elliott Kalan

[17:14] Well, as we'll see, he does deliver the best line in the entire movie later towards the end of the film.

Dan McCoy

[17:19] Yeah.

[17:20] I mean, he's had a lot of practice, like, both playing and being ritual to asshole.

[17:26] And doddering.

[17:27] Yeah.

[17:27] It's his thing.

Elliott Kalan

[17:28] Now, there's – now, we should mention also, there's a lot of little side minor characters that pop up around here.

[17:33] They're all played by – for the most part.

[17:35] But, like, Dustin Hoffman shows up.

[17:36] James Remar shows up.

[17:37] Like, D.B. Sweeney shows up.

[17:38] Like, it's all these well-known faces.

[17:40] D.B. Sweeney?

[17:42] What?

[17:43] From the cut again?

[17:44] I know.

Stuart Wellington

[17:45] And, like, Jason Schwartzman has a very good scene later on where he plays drums.

Elliott Kalan

[17:49] Yes.

[17:50] Yeah.

[17:50] And, like, Talia Shire, family member of Francis Ford Coppola, shows up.

[17:53] Like, there's a – but it's a – it's one of these – it feels like one of these movies that is overstuffed with people.

[17:58] And you have to imagine there is hours and hours of footage.

[18:01] We didn't even talk about –

Dan McCoy

[18:02] Did you mention Lawrence Fishburne who is –

[18:04] Yeah, Lawrence Fishburne, who's the narrator slash chauffeur.

Stuart Wellington

[18:06] Yeah.

[18:07] And we also haven't even touched on the other two important characters.

[18:12] We have the son of Crassus, Claudio, played by Shia LaBeouf.

[18:17] Mm-hmm.

[18:17] And, uh, wow platinum, a journalist extraordinaire played by –

Elliott Kalan

[18:23] She is – she's very – she's very clearly a take on Maria Bartiromo.

[18:27] Maria Bartiromo, the money bunny, because she calls herself the money honey in this, right?

[18:32] Oh.

[18:32] Or is it the other way around?

[18:33] Maria Bartiromo, she's – now she's just a straightforward Trump Trump all the time person.

[18:37] Yeah.

[18:37] Her whole thing was she was the CNBC kind of, like, lady reporter.

[18:41] And they used to call her – whatever one wow platinum is in this, she's the other one of either the money bunny or the money honey.

[18:47] And I don't remember which one is which at this point.

[18:49] Lister's right in.

Stuart Wellington

[18:51] Okay.

[18:52] Or don't.

[18:52] I mean –

Elliott Kalan

[18:53] But these are – but these are – I mean, we'll get, like, much as – is it Jared Leto in Haseguchi, right?

[18:59] Much as his performance is at the level the movie wants to be at, I feel like these two are at the level the movie wants to be at, which is cartoonish, you know?

[19:05] Mm-hmm.

Stuart Wellington

[19:06] Yeah.

[19:07] I mean, it feels very much like Aubrey Plaza's doing a performance of her character, April Ludgate, doing a performance of this character almost.

[19:14] Yeah.

[19:16] So we're kind of introduced to this drama and these different personalities at a press conference that is held over a scale model of what the city is supposed to look like, I guess, where they're, like, walking around on, like, what, gantries and, like –

Elliott Kalan

[19:30] Now, Roman, you know urban studies stuff.

[19:32] Is this usually how, like, a new city development is unveiled by everyone walking on a catwalk over it and it's very dimly lit and people are arguing with each other in the catwalk?

S4

[19:42] Yeah.

[19:42] It's similar to all the ones I've been to for sure.

[19:44] But is it the dramatic lighting, all this sort of thing?

[19:48] It just – this is where the beginning of the nonsense, especially the big talk with nothing inside of the big talk starts.

Elliott Kalan

[19:54] Yeah, well, apparently Adam Driver had a speech that he was supposed to deliver in this scene and Coppola, to loosen him up, said, why don't you just go out there and do the to be or not to be soliloquy from Hamlet?

[20:03] And he did it.

[20:04] And Coppola was like, I like that more.

[20:05] I'll put that in the movie.

[20:06] So that's why Adam Driver just goes out and does to be or not to be.

[20:08] And it's not a bad performance of that soliloquy.

[20:10] But it's – the whole time I was reaching to be like, why is he doing this in this moment?

[20:15] Because I wasn't yet far enough into the movie to realize there's not really a logical reason for a lot of the things to happen in the movie.

[20:21] Right.

Stuart Wellington

[20:22] So we get a little bit of further backstory.

[20:25] We get – it turns out that Cesar Catalina has a tragic backstory.

[20:28] His wife was potentially, what, like killed by him?

[20:32] Is there – that's the belief is that he may or may not have been involved in her death or a car accident that she was injured?

Elliott Kalan

[20:38] She was found drowned in a car at the bottom of the lake or bottom of the river in a shot that is an explicit call to the Night of the Hunter, to Shelley Winters in the drowned car in Night of the Hunter.

[20:50] And so we already know that before he was mayor, Giancarlo Esposito was the DA and he brought Adam Driver up on charges and took him to court accusing him of that murder.

[21:00] And he was acquitted of that murder.

[21:01] And so, yeah, there's bad blood and he's a bad boy.

[21:04] It's bad blood over a bad boy.

[21:06] Now, speaking of bad boys –

[21:07] Adam Driver, ironically, they said that he drove her to death.

Stuart Wellington

[21:12] That is ironic.

[21:13] That's ironic.

[21:13] Thanks for explaining irony to me.

[21:16] So he's a bad boy because he's also kind of secretly dating Wow Platinum and they have this scene where they are kind of hooking up in a very messy hotel room or apartment.

[21:28] He kind of spurns her affections.

[21:31] There is the lovely line where she is down on her knees and says, Caesar, your anal is hell.

[21:37] Luckily, I'm oral as hell.

[21:38] And I was like hooting and hollering in the theater.

[21:40] Thumbs up.

Elliott Kalan

[21:41] That's the Academy Award winner for the screenplay for Patton who wrote that line.

Dan McCoy

[21:44] Shot off your pistols into the air.

S4

[21:49] Should we set up here one thing when they are in this press conference talking about the different visions for the city?

[21:56] I think the mayor wants to do this sort of garish, you know, Biff-style casino in this space.

[22:04] And then Adam Driver is like talking and he quotes Hamlet and stuff.

[22:09] But there's no presentation of what his ideas are really.

[22:14] Or did I just miss them?

Elliott Kalan

[22:15] No.

[22:15] I think it's kind of taken for granted on his part and the movie's part that everyone already kind of has a sense of Megalopolis, his dream city that he wants to build.

[22:24] But he does not present.

[22:25] I think that was probably the speech he was going to give in the original screenplay.

Dan McCoy

[22:29] That's the thing.

[22:30] Also, you know, look, casinos are basically never the answer.

[22:35] But the way it's at least presented.

Elliott Kalan

[22:37] They're the answer to where can I get a cheap steak at 3 in the morning.

Dan McCoy

[22:40] The way it is at least presented here is the mayor is like, hey, you've got all these, you know, pie-in-the-sky ideas.

[22:47] But, like, there are people who need things right now and I'm going to give them to them.

[22:52] And in the absence of Adam Driver's character having any argument, I'm like, I don't know.

[22:57] It sounds like he's making some sense.

[22:59] Like, why am I supposed to sympathize immediately with Adam Driver?

[23:04] Because he can stop time?

[23:05] Great.

S4

[23:06] But he says something to the effect of, like, let's just give the people what they want.

[23:10] We need to serve the people.

[23:11] And this is the way we serve the people through this casino.

[23:14] And then Adam Driver offers, right, no counterargument whatsoever.

[23:19] So I was trying to get, like, this is my, this is the beginning of my frustration with this movie.

[23:24] It's like, it's like.

Stuart Wellington

[23:25] Up until now, you were totally on board.

[23:27] You were like, I love it.

[23:28] I love it.

S4

[23:28] Yeah, you showed up wearing a Cesar Catalina t-shirt.

[23:33] Foam finger and everything.

[23:35] But it's, if you're going to be broad stroke fables, then you have to present ideas.

[23:42] You know what I mean?

[23:43] Like, if the characters are not going to make sense and they're going to be completely arched and not have natural dialogue.

[23:48] If the sets are all fantastical and stuff.

[23:52] That usually means that you're clearing the way of all this nuance.

[23:56] So you can tell, you know, like a war of ideas of good and evil or whatever.

[24:03] And this is where I begin to like, what is the premise of Megalopolis?

[24:09] You know, like, what does he, what does this utopia mean other than the word utopia?

[24:12] What is a casino?

[24:14] Like, is it really about serving the people?

[24:16] Is it about corruption?

[24:17] Is it about both?

[24:18] None of these things are clear here.

[24:21] And I'm just like, I'm just at sea with this idea of like, and so much of it is like, is that the deflation of this moment of like, oh, it isn't that Caesar is a Moses-like figure.

[24:38] It's, oh, he is just a genius.

[24:40] Like, he's just great.

[24:41] Yeah, I mean, that's the thing kind of Elliot pointed out.

Stuart Wellington

[24:43] Like, it'd be one thing if the idea was that Caesar is this guy who he believes that people don't understand what they actually want or need.

[24:51] Right.

[24:51] And that he's at odds with the mayor and there's an actual question as to which one, who's right.

[24:56] But the movie is like, nope, Caesar's right.

[24:58] Yeah, listen to the smart guy.

[24:59] I'm interested in that.

Elliott Kalan

[25:00] I really think one of the, the way that it makes sense to me is just if I look at it as a metaphor for Francis Ford Coppola, the genius.

[25:06] And the mayor is a studio executive and he's saying, make me a superhero movie.

[25:11] We got to serve the people and that's what they want.

[25:13] They want a flashy casino.

[25:14] And Francis Ford Coppola is like, no, I want to build them the movies of the future that will create new ways to think and feel.

[25:21] And I have this new element, Coppola, I mean Megalon.

[25:25] Like, that's the only way.

[25:26] And I don't know if it's that explicit in his head or if that was intentional.

[25:32] But that's the way I can read it as a metaphor where it starts to make sense.

S4

[25:35] But that's the only thing that makes, that's the only way it makes sense.

Elliott Kalan

[25:38] But he also seems to think that it makes sense on a political level of like, this is a story about politics and populism versus, it's one of those things where it's like, obviously populism is bad.

[25:50] We need a genius who can cut through things.

[25:51] And it's like, well, that's fascism.

[25:53] Like, the thing you present is like the mob gone unruly.

[25:58] Your only solution is that we all just trust Adam Driver's magic metal, you know.

S4

[26:02] But that's the thing, like, as you're doing the synopsis, that the main thing that is like to be conveyed about this moment is that the ideas are almost there as if there's some kind of thing to be said or some point.

[26:17] But they don't connect.

[26:19] No.

[26:19] And instead, it just moves on.

[26:22] You know, like, and it's very, very weird.

[26:24] That's what I was like.

[26:25] I was like, what is it?

[26:26] What does it mean to serve the people with a casino?

[26:28] Who?

S4

[26:29] I just like these ideas, like none of them stick.

[26:31] None of them are consistent.

[26:33] And it just keeps rolling on.

Stuart Wellington

[26:36] I think Giancarlo Esposito or Mayor Cicero, my mistake.

[26:39] His plan, actually, there is something.

[26:42] He's saying, we need to build a casino because it'll, like, the people want it.

[26:46] At least that's a concrete thing explanation.

[26:49] Like, I can at least understand that.

Elliott Kalan

[26:50] I mean, we learn more about what Megalopolis will be like later.

[26:53] You'll get to it, Stuart.

[26:54] The plant buildings and the glowing moving sidewalks.

Stuart Wellington

[26:57] The plant buildings, a home for everyone.

[26:59] A home for everyone.

[26:59] With apparently tons of space now.

[27:01] I don't know.

[27:02] I'm like, did half the population die?

[27:04] Did everybody get?

Elliott Kalan

[27:05] I mean, you'll see.

[27:07] There's a disaster that opens up quite a bit of extra space for building.

[27:09] We're like 15 minutes of this two and a half hour.

S4

[27:11] I'm sorry for moving us backward when we should be moving forward.

[27:14] So, this scene happens.

[27:16] You realize it has a relationship with Wild Platinum.

[27:18] With Wild Platinum.

[27:19] I kind of enjoy that name.

[27:20] That was one where I was like, I'm into that.

Elliott Kalan

[27:22] I mean, everything about Aubrey Plaza's performance and character is on the level of a political editorial cartoon,

[27:28] which is kind of where this movie wants to exist, you know?

[27:31] And she knows how to play these characters, you know?

Stuart Wellington

[27:33] Meanwhile, Julia Cicero bluffs her way into the office of Caesar Catalina.

[27:39] And we have a little bit of a verbal sparring between the two of them.

[27:43] She wants to get in on this Caesar Catalina department of this design authority stuff.

[27:50] And he is initially...

Elliott Kalan

[27:51] Go on.

[27:52] Well, she like sent him like a letter to insult him, right?

[27:55] Yeah.

[27:55] And she wants it back because she doesn't want to embarrass her dad.

Stuart Wellington

[27:57] And she also like...

[27:58] But she's also like...

[28:00] I think she's interested in him.

[28:01] She saw him stop time, for God's sakes.

[28:04] This is...

[28:04] And he looks like Adam Driver.

[28:05] And he looks like Adam Driver.

[28:07] Which is not to everyone's taste, but, you know, most people.

Elliott Kalan

[28:10] And this is where he tells her to go back to the club.

[28:12] Which is a moment that, in context, it does not seem as bonkers as it does when it's clicked out.

[28:16] It's a fun reading, is what it is.

[28:18] It's a fun line reading.

[28:18] I think he's trying to make fun of the idea of the cool club.

Stuart Wellington

[28:22] He also...

[28:23] This is also where he says like, why do you deserve to be exposed to the riches of my Emersonian mind or whatever?

[28:31] Which is also a very funny line.

[28:33] Yeah.

[28:33] It's great.

[28:35] And then he like...

[28:35] It's everyone on Twitter.

[28:37] Yeah, it's great.

[28:37] He then takes her to a scale...

[28:42] A not...

[28:42] Probably not perfectly to scale cardboard model of the city.

[28:46] And has her walk through it with her eyes closed.

[28:49] And she pictures the megalopolis that could be.

[28:53] You know, with, again, like floating walkways and streets.

[28:56] And everything's glowing.

[28:57] And it looks like it's made out of plants.

[28:59] It's super bio-organic.

Elliott Kalan

[29:00] It looks like every CGI rendering proposal of a skyscraper in New York.

[29:06] When they're like, here's what we're going to do with this space that opened up.

[29:09] And it's always a CGI rendering where everything's super glossy and there's trees all over.

Stuart Wellington

[29:12] Yeah, it looks like the cover of a super melodic Tech Death album cover, you know.

[29:18] Yes, exactly.

Dan McCoy

[29:19] And I also hate to slow this down, but in terms of like the look of this film...

Elliott Kalan

[29:23] I hate to slow this down, but...

[29:24] In terms of...

Dan McCoy

[29:27] I'd like to do the Bob and Ray Slow Talkers of America sketch.

[29:31] Great sketch.

[29:33] The look of this movie is all over the place.

[29:36] Partly, I assume, because, you know, some of it was filmed years ago.

[29:41] And then some of it was filmed more recently.

[29:43] And it was all sort of jammed together.

[29:45] And, you know, it's what affects...

[29:48] I mean, even though this is $120 million of his own money, it wasn't enough.

[29:53] And like, it's what he could afford in certain scenes.

[29:55] But I think that there's some scenes that are genuinely, like, beautiful and visually striking.

[30:00] And some of them look like, you know, maybe a C-tier CGI effects company's reel.

[30:09] And some of it looks like they got it off of Storyblocks or something, you know.

[30:14] Which is, you know, there's some beautiful stuff on there.

[30:16] A former sponsor of ours.

Elliott Kalan

[30:18] Storyblocks has a lot of great footage, but it's not what you would expect from a major motion picture.

Dan McCoy

[30:22] Yeah, it's odd to see what seems to be stock footage just sort of interspersed in this thing.

Elliott Kalan

[30:28] This is definitely...

[30:29] There's a...

[30:29] So they were making a documentary about them making this movie at the same time they're making the movie.

[30:32] And it hasn't come out yet.

[30:34] And I'm so curious to watch it.

[30:36] Because I have to imagine there were huge swaths of the film that were changed at the last minute because of budget reasons and things like that.

Stuart Wellington

[30:43] So the mayor finds out that his daughter's been spending some time with Caesar.

[30:48] And he's not a big fan of this.

[30:49] Right around now, he has a parade.

[30:53] And everybody's like mean to him and don't like him.

[30:56] They're all booing him, yeah.

[30:57] I think also this is where a random guy gets recruited off the street to be one of Claudio's henchmen.

[31:02] I think that's the same guy.

Elliott Kalan

[31:03] The tuba player in the marching band.

[31:05] He gets recruited to go off of Claudio.

[31:07] And I'm like, I guess this is going to be an important character, but it's not really.

[31:10] Like they spend a surprising amount of time with the marching band wondering where this guy went to.

[31:14] Considering we barely ever see any of them ever again.

Stuart Wellington

[31:17] Okay.

[31:18] Fast forward a little bit.

[31:20] It is nighttime.

[31:22] Caesar jumps in his car and goes driving through the rainy streets of New Rome.

[31:27] He is pursued by Claudio and Julia in separate cars.

[31:30] We have like a little rainy street chase, I guess.

Elliott Kalan

[31:34] And this is where we have one of the – there are a couple moments in this movie that I do think are brilliant and beautiful.

[31:39] And this is where he's going driving through the city and he's seeing the statues of the city.

[31:42] These huge kind of Greco-Roman type statues are literally sagging out of fatigue and dropping the things they're holding and leaning against buildings.

[31:50] And it's like – I think it's such a – it's a beautiful way of getting across the idea of a society that has exhausted itself, that is losing the energy that made it great once.

[31:59] And I'm like, oh, this is the kind of beautiful, straightforward metaphor that he's not achieving through most of the movie in my opinion.

[32:06] Right.

Dan McCoy

[32:06] Well, it's a sort of directly expressionist look that I think part of the problem is it doesn't settle on one thing.

[32:13] If it was all sort of poetic in the same way, it would feel better.

[32:18] But there's a lot of disjointed different ways of doing it.

[32:22] Yeah.

S4

[32:23] I had the same feeling when I saw this.

[32:25] This scene was the most where I was like, oh, this is what this kind of fantastical imagery – this is where it's achieving what I think it's supposed to be achieving the whole time.

[32:35] This is where it hit me.

[32:37] And I was like, I can deal with this artifice.

[32:39] I can deal with the fact that this all feels like green screen, but not –

[32:42] you know, like purposeful, you know, kind of green screen.

[32:46] And it just felt – that was my favorite visual moment in the whole movie was the statues and the sort of dilapidated parts of New Rome.

[32:56] That worked on me totally.

Stuart Wellington

[32:57] And it's a bit of a sledgehammer, but I feel like it is very clear what it's trying to say.

[33:02] Yeah.

[33:02] It's not as messy as some of the other stuff.

S4

[33:04] That's where it delivers being a fable is the thing.

[33:06] That's like I want it to – yeah.

[33:08] I want it to be a fable.

Stuart Wellington

[33:10] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[33:10] When you saw those statues, you're like, we have title finally.

Dan McCoy

[33:14] Robin, I have a movie for you called The Fablemans that you might enjoy more.

[33:19] Yeah, it's a real fable, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[33:20] Fable-oriented.

[33:21] It's about a little mouse.

[33:25] Oh, that's right.

[33:26] That's Fable Goes West.

[33:27] I apologize.

[33:27] That's an American tale.

[33:28] Fable Goes West.

Stuart Wellington

[33:30] Caesar's car stops in front of a mysterious glowing flower stall that appears in the middle of the street.

[33:37] Yeah.

[33:38] Julia sees this and says, that doesn't make sense.

[33:40] And I'm like, it doesn't make sense.

[33:42] You're right.

[33:43] And then he takes the flowers he buys and goes up into a dilapidated apartment building.

[33:47] She pursues him.

[33:49] In his mind, he sees that he's walking into a well-appointed room with attendants and his wife is in the bed.

[33:56] But in reality, he's just like sitting on a bed, right?

[34:00] Like there's no wife there at all.

[34:02] He's like –

Elliott Kalan

[34:03] He's hallucinating that his wife is still alive and is being cared for and he's visiting her.

[34:07] And Julia seems to see both reality and the hallucination.

[34:10] Like she both sees reality but seems to understand, oh, he thinks his wife is there.

Stuart Wellington

[34:13] And Claudio is also spying on this as well.

[34:18] But he doesn't see the hallucination, I don't believe.

Elliott Kalan

[34:19] It's also –

[34:20] I never could quite figure out why –

[34:22] I know why Claudio gets mad later.

[34:24] I could never quite figure out why Claudio cares about Caesar right now.

Stuart Wellington

[34:27] He has like a burn book of all the people he doesn't like and Caesar Catalina is written down on that.

Elliott Kalan

[34:32] Yeah, maybe that's it.

[34:33] This character doesn't need a motivation.

[34:34] I mean, and Shia LaBeouf, I think he's harnessing his natural unlikeability for this character in a really strong way.

Dan McCoy

[34:42] No, that's true.

[34:43] You don't need a backstory.

[34:43] You're like, oh, this guy's just – you know, he's just a jerk.

[34:46] He doesn't like this guy.

Stuart Wellington

[34:47] Yeah.

[34:48] I just assume that Caesar Catalina like, I don't know, accidentally threw some logs in the fire when they were sitting around the fire and it burned off Shia LaBeouf's eyebrows.

[34:57] So that's why he hates him because he has like painted on eyebrows or something, right?

Elliott Kalan

[35:02] Yeah, just like Superman and Lex Luthor, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[35:04] Okay.

[35:05] So shortly after this, I guess it's like the next day or something, Caesar takes Julia up in his private elevator to the top of the design authority where he has his like, I don't know, like thinking area, which is like a clock on its side and a bunch of ledges and girders.

[35:23] It looks kind of like the – to me it looked like a set for like a play, right?

[35:30] And where they can like gaze down upon all of New Rome and kind of see as everything moves.

Dan McCoy

[35:36] I mean it's sort of like they're hanging out on top of like a mobile.

[35:40] Yeah.

[35:41] Yeah.

[35:41] Put over either a baby or you'd have an art gallery on either side of the sort of spectrum of mobiles.

Stuart Wellington

[35:50] I think it's – I think around now he kind of explains what he's doing or what he's thinking, but I don't really remember this scene outside of them just hanging out on clocks.

[35:59] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[36:00] Meanwhile –

[36:01] I think there's a – there's – yeah, there's nothing – in my notes there's nothing particular.

[36:05] Yeah.

[36:05] It just says clocks.

Stuart Wellington

[36:06] Yeah.

[36:07] Meanwhile, we get a wedding between Wild Platinum and Crassus the banker guy.

[36:16] Is that – I don't remember his last name.

[36:18] Is it – is that his last name?

[36:19] I think Crassus is his last name.

[36:20] Yeah.

[36:20] That's John Voight.

[36:22] Yeah, John Voight.

[36:23] Okay.

[36:23] So this is clearly –

[36:25] Wild Platinum took – this is a power play for her.

[36:28] She wants access to his money.

[36:29] He's Hamilton Crassus III.

[36:30] Thank you.

[36:31] Hamilton Crassus III.

[36:32] Thank you.

[36:33] And so we have a big fancy wedding.

[36:36] It has – it's a wedding that has everything.

[36:39] It has gladiators.

[36:40] It has guys riding chariots around on the inside of a coliseum.

[36:45] Caesar shows up and a pop star shows up wearing a dress made out of –

[36:49] That was his wedding.

[36:49] Yeah.

[36:50] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[36:50] To me, honestly, guys, I was just like, oh, they all went to the circus.

[36:56] And I was like, fine with that as an explanation.

[36:59] I'm just like –

[37:00] I don't know if it's a –

[37:00] They're at the circus now.

[37:01] I don't know if it's necessarily the wedding.

[37:02] Like the March Brothers.

Elliott Kalan

[37:03] It's a celebration of their betrothal though, right?

[37:07] I mean, it's either one or the other.

[37:07] Maybe it's the reception.

[37:08] Who knows?

[37:08] Yeah.

[37:08] But that's why they're doing it.

[37:09] Yeah.

[37:10] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[37:10] And there's a pop star wearing – I can't remember if this is the same pop star from later, Vesta Sweetwater, who shows up wearing a dress made out of Megalon, which is –

[37:19] This is Vesta Sweetwater.

[37:20] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[37:20] Yeah.

[37:20] This is Vesta Sweetwater.

[37:21] This Megalon dress is perfect camouflage.

[37:25] Does not matter for later.

[37:26] There's no moment where you're like, oh, you can use Megalon if you cover yourself like the predator can't see you or something.

[37:32] That doesn't matter.

Elliott Kalan

[37:33] Yeah.

[37:33] Nope.

[37:33] It's just a one-off idea that it's a dress made out of Megalon where there's cameras in the back that project what's behind you on the front so you turn invisible.

[37:41] And that's it.

[37:42] It's just an effect.

Stuart Wellington

[37:44] There's a ton of Roman stuff.

[37:45] We haven't really even talked about the outfits and stuff.

[37:47] Like everybody has like vaguely futuristic Roman outfits.

[37:52] Yeah.

[37:52] You know it's futuristic because like men's suits have slightly different collar cuts.

[37:57] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[37:58] Yeah.

[37:58] Like sometimes they don't have – it's like a severe suit cut, but they also have little – they have like little laurel rubies.

[38:03] Little wreaths behind their ears.

[38:04] You know, leaves behind their ears.

[38:05] So it's like –

S4

[38:05] Kind of epaulets to make them like their shoulders very broad, lots of capes and stuff like that.

Elliott Kalan

[38:10] It's the kind of stuff that has been done on stage in productions of Julius Caesar since at least the 1930s.

[38:15] Yes.

[38:15] Where it's like, hmm, we'll pull out how it's like modern political times by having everyone wear suits, but they still have like Roman haircuts.

[38:24] You know, that kind of thing.

Dan McCoy

[38:25] You know, Roman talked earlier about when the movie started to sort of lose him.

[38:31] And I want to present –

Elliott Kalan

[38:32] That meant when he lost himself in the film, right, Roman?

Dan McCoy

[38:34] He lost himself in the moment.

[38:37] No, I want to talk about the inverse where the movie, which up until this point had only baffled and dismayed me, started to get me a little bit.

[38:47] And that like during this whole circus sequence, I'm like, oh.

[38:51] Like it started to engage me in spite of myself partly because I was like, oh, I don't need to care what any of it means.

[38:58] Like at least the movie at this point was throwing a bunch of stuff at me.

[39:02] And I appreciated that.

[39:04] Yeah.

[39:04] This is one of the sequences maybe, you know, before they started running out of money.

[39:10] It felt very like full of splendor and ideas.

[39:15] And none of it necessarily hung together in any thematic way that made any sense to me.

[39:21] But I'm like, oh, okay movie.

S4

[39:23] It's kind of delivering the bread in circuses that –

[39:25] Yeah.

[39:26] To placate, you know, people in the audience.

[39:28] You know, the same way.

Dan McCoy

[39:29] Yeah, I'm one of the idiot rabble.

[39:31] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[39:32] You're like, finally, I can relate to someone in the movie, the people screaming for blood in the stands.

S4

[39:39] It is throwing a lot.

[39:40] But it's like – I think the point, which is easy to get into, is the sneering at the wealthy and, you know, sneering at their excess and stuff like that.

[39:50] And it just – it's totally – I mean, it works.

[39:52] That works.

Stuart Wellington

[39:53] And Caesar seems to be doing his best to play along.

[39:58] But he is clearly kind of disgusted by this whole situation.

[40:03] He ends up getting very drunk and getting himself into trouble.

[40:06] Meanwhile, scheming little Claudio, who is – I think he's in drag at this point.

[40:13] He sneaks into, like, the control booth and he puts a – he frames Caesar and Vesta Sweetwater, who is a – like a Taylor Swift-style pop star.

[40:26] And the idea is that she is supposed to be a – like a young virgin, right?

Dan McCoy

[40:31] Yes, she's both made a big deal out of, like, I'm going to keep myself a virgin and she's presenting herself as being younger than she is.

[40:41] Which we learn later, yeah.

[40:42] Yeah, this is, like, statutory rape, it seems, but it's not actually.

S4

[40:46] Yeah.

[40:46] But isn't the premise of all this, like, that these old men, the old rich oligarchy, is betting on her virginity?

[40:55] Like, betting – is that happening?

[40:56] I believe that's true, yes.

Elliott Kalan

[40:58] They're, like, betting that she's going to keep her promise, right?

[41:01] Like, they're not auctioning off her virginity, right?

S4

[41:03] I thought that's what was happening there.

[41:05] Like that – but you guys took notes.

[41:07] I didn't.

[41:07] Somehow the economy of this city is balanced on her promise of staying a virgin until marriage.

Dan McCoy

[41:13] Yeah.

[41:14] Yeah.

[41:14] I thought they were sort of, like, bidding to keep her a virgin somehow, but I don't know what the mechanics of that would be.

Elliott Kalan

[41:20] I mean, it's ancient Rome stuff, though, because it's, like –

[41:23] Yeah.

[41:23] Right?

[41:24] Like the Vestal Virgins.

[41:25] Right.

[41:25] Their virginity was one of the things underpinning the safety of – the spiritual safety of Rome.

[41:29] And, like, that's part of the issue with trying to compare – do a metaphor where you're, like, ancient Rome is, like, nowadays, is that the basic foundational underpinnings of society are so different compared to ancient Rome.

[41:42] Like, Rome, yeah, they had a senate.

[41:44] Yeah, that's true.

[41:44] But also, like, religion and politics were the same thing.

[41:47] And, like, it was just taken for granted that if the city was having trouble, you'd make some sacrifices to the gods, and hopefully that'll keep things right the way you thought.

Stuart Wellington

[41:55] In a way, don't we do that these days, Elliot?

[41:59] You're right, Stu.

[42:00] I'm the one who's being naive.

[42:01] Yeah.

S4

[42:02] But I did interpret this as way more sinister than maybe it was.

Stuart Wellington

[42:06] Yeah.

[42:06] My notes say fundraiser, question mark, pledging for purity, question mark.

Elliott Kalan

[42:11] Yeah, I think they are – I think they are – I think it's like a marathon fundraiser where, like, you're pledging someone to run a marathon.

[42:18] I think they're pledging for her to just stay a virgin.

[42:20] Got it.

[42:21] And so when they see her on tape, supposedly in bed with Caesar Catalina –

Stuart Wellington

[42:27] Yeah, they're like, I wasted all that money.

Elliott Kalan

[42:29] Yeah, and everybody –

[42:30] They're like, oh, the underpinning of our city is all wrong.

[42:32] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[42:32] Yeah, everyone is incensed by this.

[42:34] Like, the crowd is baying for blood.

[42:37] This is after her big musical number, though, right?

[42:38] Yeah, after her big musical number.

[42:40] I didn't talk about it.

[42:41] Do you want to talk about ILA?

[42:42] Do you have opinions?

Elliott Kalan

[42:43] She does this big musical number where there's suddenly, like, six of her singing all at the same time.

[42:47] And, again, doesn't make sense.

[42:49] Doesn't really work thematically.

[42:51] Never explained.

[42:52] But it's a cool thing.

[42:53] Not bad.

[42:54] It's a cool-looking scene.

[42:55] And I have to say, actually, the Vesta stuff is –

[42:58] The last we see of her character is one of my favorite moments in the movie also.

[43:02] But we'll get to that.

[43:04] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[43:04] Please get to it because I don't have it written down in my notes.

[43:07] That's where –

Elliott Kalan

[43:07] Okay.

[43:08] Well, when it's – I don't remember what happens here.

[43:10] But, like, the scandal comes out that this video has been shown by every – to, you know, Shia LaBeouf arranged for this video to be shown on the Jumbotron of her in bed with Adam Driver.

[43:20] And then suddenly, like, the screen fills with fire.

[43:24] And there are headlines that are, like, Vesta reimagines herself.

[43:27] And suddenly she is singing, like, a bad girl song.

[43:30] Now she's reimagining herself as, like, a sinful bad girl.

[43:32] And she's a superstar again.

[43:34] And it's so – it feels so much like Francis Ford Coppola is, like, who are the scenes into?

[43:38] Taylor Swift?

[43:38] What does she do?

[43:39] Okay, I'll do something.

[43:40] This is my understanding of what that is.

[43:42] And it happens so – it's like the movie suddenly turns into an advertisement for something else – for some other movie.

Stuart Wellington

[43:48] Yeah, I think that's a little sequence that happens a little bit later.

[43:52] And it's done, like, a totally, like, classic MTV News-style, like, explosion bit.

[43:56] And then, like, scenes of societal collapse.

[43:58] Okay, Adam Driver, Cesar Catalina, gets too drunk, gets beaten up by some guys.

[44:04] He gets whisked away.

[44:06] The cops arrest him for statutory rape because of the video.

[44:10] But then Julia goes into the archives and finds out, actually, Vesta Sweetwater is older than she's been telling everybody.

[44:18] So she exonerates him.

[44:20] Problem almost immediately solved.

[44:22] But also, isn't it, like –

Elliott Kalan

[44:23] And don't we find out that the video is fake later on?

Dan McCoy

[44:25] The video is fake, too.

[44:26] They, like, double up the explanations of, like, why this is fine.

Elliott Kalan

[44:30] It feels like the movie is fainting towards – fainting F-E-I-N-T.

[44:35] Not fainting like, oh, Stars and Garters.

[44:36] Ooh, like pearls.

[44:38] The vapors, yeah.

[44:39] It's taking a faint towards this guy might be a genius, but he's not a good guy.

[44:43] But instead, the movie is very quickly to be like, no, no, no.

[44:46] He's a good guy pretending to be a bad guy.

[44:48] And he tells Julia, you got to pretend to be bad or people lose interest in you or something like that.

[44:52] And they're like, not only was she not a minor, he also didn't have sex with her anyway.

[44:57] So it's fine.

[44:57] He's double good.

[44:58] He's nothing to do with it.

[44:59] He's a sturdling saint, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[45:01] So around now, we have Caesar and Julia meeting on top of his girder watch ledge.

[45:08] And they have a conversation.

[45:09] And with her help, he's able to stop time again.

[45:11] He had kind of lost his powers for a little bit.

[45:14] Like Spider-Man, sometimes he loses his powers when he's in a bad mood or depressed.

[45:17] And then they have a kind of sloppy make-out session.

[45:20] I thought that was pretty great.

[45:22] And then we get – and they like decide to work together.

[45:25] And we get a montage of them like kind of falling in love and doing some work at the Design Authority.

S4

[45:33] Which, by the way, has really boring design.

Stuart Wellington

[45:36] Like I really wanted those jackets to pop a little bit more.

S4

[45:40] I was really bummed about that because I was like, Design Authority?

[45:43] All right, let's spend some time in the Design Authority.

[45:46] Nothing.

Stuart Wellington

[45:47] Yeah.

[45:48] Mugler would be upset.

Elliott Kalan

[45:50] Robert Moses would be upset.

[45:51] He was all about – say what you will about him.

[45:54] In his early work at least, he's got a real design eye.

Stuart Wellington

[45:56] Yeah.

[45:57] Yeah.

[45:58] Claudio, meanwhile, one scheme foiled.

[46:01] He's got more schemes to be had.

[46:02] He starts trumping it up.

[46:04] He sees what's going on.

[46:05] And he's like – starts getting the masses all angry.

[46:09] They start backing him.

[46:11] Later on, there's a scene where he's giving a stump speech.

[46:14] And the stump is literally carved into the shape of a swastika.

[46:18] Is that right?

[46:19] It's pretty messed up.

[46:21] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[46:22] I think that movie is pretty subtle.

[46:23] I don't know if something like that would happen in this movie.

Stuart Wellington

[46:26] We find out that Julia is pregnant.

[46:28] Uh-oh.

[46:29] There's a baby on the way.

[46:32] Master Builder has built a baby.

[46:35] Mayor Cicero doesn't like this idea.

[46:37] He doesn't like the idea that they're going to have a kid.

[46:39] So he tries to – basically tries to buy off Caesar.

[46:44] He's like, hey, you can do whatever you want.

[46:46] Just don't – like leave my daughter out of this.

[46:49] Get out of this.

Elliott Kalan

[46:50] Stuart, you're doing a great job of condensing this movie.

[46:52] Did you skip over the part where the mayor has a dream where a cloud with a hand grabs the moon and his wife accurately says that that's an omen?

[47:00] Yeah, okay.

[47:02] I just want to make sure that we get the full.

[47:05] Oh, I'm sorry.

[47:06] Because I don't want people to listen to this and be like, this movie doesn't sound that crazy.

[47:09] And it's like, oh, yeah, what about the scene where the mayor has his dream about a cloud grabbing the moon?

Dan McCoy

[47:13] Yeah, it doesn't really figure into much, but it looks cool.

[47:17] I don't know when it happens in the movie, so I just want to say the visual that has stuck with me, there's like – they're under the water and there's some like people who are rocks.

[47:28] They're like painted as rocks and then they sort of move and you see that they're people and it is like just like half a second.

[47:36] But I was like, that's a really gorgeous image right in the middle of this thing that I'm not sure what it's saying.

Stuart Wellington

[47:42] Yeah, and there's like tons of stuff in here.

[47:44] Like there's moments where Caesar is like – has like a floating mirror that shows his memories made out of Megalon.

[47:51] Yes.

[47:53] And then –

Elliott Kalan

[47:54] Megalon mostly – Megalon is like Herbie the robot from the Fantastic Four cartoon or like – who's the little alien that hung out with the Flintstones?

[48:02] What was that guy's name?

[48:02] The Great Kazoo?

[48:03] The Great Kazoo.

[48:04] The Megalon is just kind of a lump that kind of floats in the air around Caesar's apartment and does stuff sometimes.

[48:10] But he'll just be working and the Megalon will kind of float too close to him and have to push it out of the way because it's getting too close to his face.

[48:15] And it's like – it's such a strange, like goofy thing to have.

[48:19] It's like, oh, yeah, this is the miracle metal of the future.

[48:21] Anyway, I got a lump of it and it just floats around my apartment.

Stuart Wellington

[48:23] It's kind of irritating.

[48:24] And they have like a family dinner at one point where they invite the mayor and his wife and they're like playing cards in this like weird magical Megalon house, right?

[48:34] Yeah.

[48:34] And they're like discussing string theory and shit.

Elliott Kalan

[48:37] It's like a Megalopolis exhibit.

[48:39] It's like an exhibit of what Megalops would be like or something like that.

Dan McCoy

[48:43] Yeah.

[48:43] Does that come after the destruction of the city?

Elliott Kalan

[48:47] That's before the destruction of the city but after we learn that a Soviet satellite is falling to earth and will crash into the city.

[48:53] Okay.

[48:53] I forgot about that satellite.

[48:57] There's a Soviet satellite that, yeah, they're like anyway, its orbit has decayed.

[49:02] It's going to hit the city.

[49:03] And they're like, whoa.

[49:04] And then they don't do anything about it for a while.

[49:07] Nothing we can do about it.

Stuart Wellington

[49:08] I realized that taking these notes in the dark, it was a lot easier to take notes on Madam Web.

Dan McCoy

[49:14] A more straightforward film that follows a screenplay formula that has been entrenched in Hollywood.

Elliott Kalan

[49:22] So yeah.

[49:22] By this point, I think we've also – Adam Driver has also kind of shown us his – some of the visual visions of what Megalops will look like.

[49:29] And the buildings all look like plants and the idea is like the buildings grow as people need them.

[49:34] Like there's homes for everybody because the buildings can grow and change with the needs of the people, which is a beautiful idea.

[49:41] Roman, how close are we to that?

[49:44] Yeah.

[49:45] Has anyone tried that yet, growing buildings?

S4

[49:47] I mean, in a way, like Hunter Vassar was like really into like mold and letting things grow because it was like true organic space and that the straight line is the godless line and you're going to want like –

[50:00] Oh, Jeff Vandermeer.

[50:02] You're going to want –

Elliott Kalan

[50:02] Of course, he died from the mold in his lungs, I assume.

S4

[50:05] Totally.

[50:06] So there's a lot of – there have been big lofty ideals about a kind of like organic architecture in a literal way, like to make it –

[50:15] And then there's the term organic architecture like Frank Lloyd Wright style.

[50:18] That is – that just means it's reactive to – you know, and changes to people's needs.

[50:23] So that's all kind of – those ideas are out there.

[50:26] That is the closest thing this sort of dunderheaded movie gets to an idea.

[50:31] Like that – and it's the first time you sort of get to this – yeah, like what does this utopia mean?

[50:40] That it's like organic and reactive and serves people.

[50:45] Is actually – that's an actual idea.

[50:47] Everything else has just been like glowing walkways and nonsense.

[50:52] Like where I'm like, what is this for?

[50:54] Like what do you – you have to have like – utopias like have to have a concept or something.

[50:58] And this one truly does it.

[50:59] Like what is the you part of the utopia?

[51:01] Like what does it do?

[51:02] Yeah.

[51:02] It really is.

[51:03] It's really weird.

[51:05] But that's one idea.

[51:06] Like that'd be great.

[51:07] Like having a magical substance that requires like no thought or care or design or whatever.

[51:14] Like politics and it just does its thing.

[51:17] Creates no waste.

Stuart Wellington

[51:17] Requires no energy.

[51:19] It just does it all.

S4

[51:20] And this is like a huge problem.

[51:23] Like that you're going to use some technology is going to save us rather than people like coming together and actually coming with solutions and working stuff out.

[51:30] It's like – it's just a nonsense idea that you're exploring for a couple of hours.

Elliott Kalan

[51:36] I think –

[51:37] You say that until Megalon works its magic.

Stuart Wellington

[51:39] Yeah.

[51:39] Speaking of Megalon working its magic, at this point, Caesar Catalina, probably right on the verge of explaining everything about his utopia, meets with a young 12-year-old fan who actually turns out to be a hired assassin and shoots Caesar in the face.

[51:54] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[51:54] Okay.

[51:55] So this is after – this is then after the city is destroyed by a satellite and falling to earth, right?

[52:02] Because like –

[52:03] Yeah, maybe.

[52:04] Like this is a –

[52:04] Yeah.

[52:05] Well –

[52:06] An amazingly large thing to happen and then not really be addressed that much.

[52:10] Like we get some like scenes of catastrophe, like shadows being cast on the wall.

[52:16] The reason I bring it up is just because that card game, I was wondering about – one of the things that strikes me about this movie is –

[52:24] As we said, this is a movie that Coppola has been writing for decades and decades.

[52:30] I can only assume that the screenplay grew and grew and grew.

[52:35] And at certain points, it feels like they just shot every other 20 pages of it.

[52:41] Yeah.

[52:41] Because people's relationships to each other will change wildly between scenes without explanation.

[52:46] Like Juan Carlos Esposito was like just saying like – you know, trying to pay off Adam Driver to get away from his daughter.

[52:55] And then like in the next scene, they're all sort of like – you know, they don't love each other, but they're having a genial card game together.

[53:02] I'm like, okay, well, what happened here?

[53:04] And the only thing I can think of is like, oh, the city was destroyed, so they all came together.

[53:08] But it's not said or anything.

Elliott Kalan

[53:10] I'm looking at my – because I wasn't sure if I was going to have to do the summary today or not.

[53:14] So I took some notes also.

[53:15] Please, please.

[53:15] Yeah.

[53:16] There's also – but you're right, Dan, because like Dustin Hoffman's character who's an assistant to the mayor, he dies off camera.

[53:21] We hear about – oh, yeah, he's dead now.

Dan McCoy

[53:22] We get one scene of like a thing toppling and falling on him.

[53:25] And I'm like, that had to have been a whole sequence.

Elliott Kalan

[53:27] And Shia LaBeouf runs for his position of alderman and his guy – and then it's after that that the mayor goes to Caesar and says, if you leave my daughter, I'll give you the evidence that I lied when I was prosecuting you.

[53:42] And you'll be able to destroy me and I'll put my support behind your projects.

[53:46] And at the same time, wow, platinum approaches Catalina.

[53:49] It's like, hey, look, why don't you come back and be with me again and you can have all of Crassus' money.

[53:54] Everyone wants to be in the Caesar Catalina business.

[53:56] And he's like, no, no, no.

[53:57] And that's when –

[53:58] Real Catalina caper.

[54:00] Yeah, and she seems to hypnotize Crassus into giving her control over the bank.

[54:05] And then Caesar is shot in the head by this child who – he should have been suspicious when a kid asked him to sign his book for him.

[54:13] Like there's no way this kid is reading Caesar Catalina's book.

Stuart Wellington

[54:15] I don't know, man.

[54:16] Everybody loves Caesar Catalina.

[54:17] I think that's pretty clear.

[54:19] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[54:19] But Stuart, how do they heal him?

Stuart Wellington

[54:22] How do they heal him?

[54:22] So he has this moment.

[54:23] At this point, I don't know about you guys.

[54:24] I'm like, wow, they killed him.

[54:25] That's crazy.

[54:26] And he has this like weird death dream.

[54:28] But then they end up healing him by fusing his head with some Megalon.

Elliott Kalan

[54:32] They just stick Megalon on his head on the open skull that's there.

[54:36] And this truly is an amazing building material.

[54:39] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[54:39] So we – at this point, Caesar then goes –

Elliott Kalan

[54:42] Oh, but then having the Megalon in his face gives him lots of like new powers and things like that.

Stuart Wellington

[54:46] Like the multiple man?

[54:47] Yeah.

[54:47] He shows up at Crassus, Hamilton Crassus' apartment.

[54:53] Claudio tries to harass him.

[54:55] Wow Platinum tries to make a move on him.

[54:58] But he reveals his Megalon, half human, half Megalon face.

[55:02] And it causes multiple images.

[55:05] And everybody is wowed by the majesty of his face.

Elliott Kalan

[55:08] Especially Wow herself.

[55:09] Exactly.

[55:10] And she is – so he's going there because she's frozen all of his bank accounts using her power at the bank in order to force him to something.

[55:16] Force his hand, yeah.

[55:16] And then, yeah, she offs herself again.

[55:19] And Crassus kind of interrupts it.

[55:22] But now who does Wow set her sights on if she can't control Caesar Catalina?

Stuart Wellington

[55:26] Of course.

[55:26] She's going to pick, I guess, the next best thing.

[55:28] And that's Claudio Crassus.

[55:31] And so she – we have a little sex scene.

[55:34] You were probably into this, right, Dan?

[55:36] It was like a Game of Thrones-style sex position scene.

Elliott Kalan

[55:39] It was kind of like a Game of Thrones-style sex scene where it's all about power and you feel like,

[55:44] is this what they think sex is like?

[55:46] Or she's like, stick your face in my butt.

[55:49] Okay.

[55:49] Now go over there.

[55:50] Lie down there.

Dan McCoy

[55:51] I mean, it can be like that.

[55:52] Yeah, yeah.

[55:53] You're doing it, right?

[55:53] That's true.

[55:54] Yeah.

[55:55] By the way, I just really love being on this Zoom call and watching Roman's face as he relives the plot.

[56:01] Like he's like, oh, yeah, that did – that is a thing.

[56:04] Like what?

S4

[56:06] I have been going through that where I was just like, the satellite.

[56:09] Yeah.

[56:10] Oh, my God.

[56:10] Yeah, I'd forgotten about the satellite.

[56:12] That really is – oh, my God.

[56:14] This is a bunch of nonsense.

[56:15] Like I had streamlined it into like a much tighter movie in my memory than all this.

[56:22] I'm just like –

[56:23] You missed all the good parts.

[56:24] You forgot all the good parts.

Elliott Kalan

[56:25] Long, winding road.

[56:26] So here's my note for that satellite.

[56:27] I wrote, the mayor learns the Soviet satellite may crash into the city, dash, and then it does, question mark?

[56:33] So it did happen.

[56:34] And I think the upshot of that is the idea that it now has opened up even more land for building on.

[56:39] In real life, the real Robert Moses had to evict people.

[56:41] He didn't have Soviet satellites doing the job for him.

S4

[56:43] This is just a stew of really, truly problematic and nasty great man like tropes that like he's canceled for like 20 seconds, but he's such a genius.

[56:56] Like obviously all that stuff that they say about him is fake, you know, and should be forgiven in the first place because he's so great or is all made up and a bunch of these me too made up nonsense is coming after him and trying to take him down.

[57:09] All the people are conspiring in these like horrible ways and there's no notion that Adam Driver is just wrong.

[57:18] And also the idea of like how necessary destruction is to build something and then there's this God particle that fixes everything so that no one has to have like actually hard thought and compromise.

[57:33] It's just bad stuff.

[57:37] I mean this is real like 13, 14-year-old.

[57:40] Like I can't believe an old man wrote this.

[57:43] Like this is like – this is what –

Stuart Wellington

[57:45] Yeah.

[57:45] It feels like something made by somebody very young or very old.

Elliott Kalan

[57:48] I feel like I believe in either a very young man or a very old man.

Dan McCoy

[57:52] Yeah.

[57:52] I guess that's right.

[57:53] Or a very stoned man, which apparently he was.

[57:55] Or a Gary old man.

Stuart Wellington

[57:57] A Gary old man?

[57:59] It feels a lot like somebody like –

Elliott Kalan

[58:02] Gary old banana, Gary old banana, Gary old banana.

[58:05] Gary old bananas?

[58:06] It feels like somebody was like –

[58:07] I know what you're singing.

Stuart Wellington

[58:09] Somebody was like – I want to – like Coppola's like, I want to make a movie about city planning.

[58:13] And then he got high and read like one Yodorowsky Meta Barons book and he's like, I'm going to do it like this.

Elliott Kalan

[58:21] Yeah.

[58:21] It kind of – yeah.

[58:22] He's like, should I read The Power Broker or The Ink Call?

[58:25] I'll read them both.

[58:26] I'll just alternate pages.

[58:28] Exactly.

[58:29] Okay.

[58:30] So wait.

[58:30] I wanted to ask you guys – so this next part.

[58:32] I want to – so Stuart, summarize it and then I've got a question for everybody.

[58:34] Okay?

[58:35] Because I just want to let you know I have a question about –

Stuart Wellington

[58:36] Well, I was just talking about Wow Platinum and Claudio scheming to take over the bank.

[58:41] They do it over sex.

[58:42] And then Crassus collapses –

[58:44] A sex meeting.

[58:44] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[58:45] I'd like two eggs over sex, please.

[58:49] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[58:50] Yeah, yeah.

[58:51] My Google calendar says sex meeting at 10 o'clock.

[58:55] Okay.

[58:56] So yeah.

[58:58] So then Crassus collapses.

[58:59] He seems to have what?

[59:00] Like a stroke or –

[59:01] He has a heart attack or a stroke.

[59:03] Yeah.

[59:03] And he collapses leaving Wow and Claudio in charge.

Elliott Kalan

[59:07] Now then it seems like spring comes.

[59:09] You see flowers blooming and Catalina and Julia get married in their car.

[59:13] Laurence Fishburne sits in the driver's seat and they sit in the back.

[59:16] Not Adam Driver's seat but the driver's seat of the car.

[59:18] Thank you.

[59:18] Yeah.

[59:19] And marries them.

[59:20] And then there is a montage of December holidays.

[59:23] Yep.

[59:23] In this kind of Abel Gans's Napoleon triple screen thing.

[59:28] And suddenly it's winter again.

[59:30] And I was like, did I hallucinate that it was spring and now it's winter again?

[59:33] I don't know what –

[59:34] And it can't be the next year because the baby is just the same age as when they got married.

[59:38] But this – let's explain.

[59:40] Did you guys have any sense of why there is suddenly a montage of winter holidays?

[59:45] Well –

[59:45] I would have to remember.

Stuart Wellington

[59:47] I also have to ask Elliot.

[59:48] My notes, I just wrote down Elvis.

[59:51] What does that mean?

[59:52] Yes.

Elliott Kalan

[59:52] So an Elvis impersonator is out on the street singing America the Beautiful.

[59:55] Oh, okay.

[59:56] Thank you.

[59:56] I think it's part of Claudio's like pandering to the masses.

[1:00:01] I'm not sure.

[1:00:01] Or maybe it's a busker and it's a statement about the plastic artificiality of American value.

[1:00:08] Yeah, that happens.

[1:00:09] I'm not quite sure.

Dan McCoy

[1:00:10] I love this new bit.

[1:00:11] Stuart deciphers his notes, by the way.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:13] Jesus Christ.

[1:00:14] What did I write?

[1:00:16] Yeah, I don't know what's going on with that.

[1:00:18] I mean I did write winter holiday montage in my notes.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:22] Yeah, that happens.

[1:00:23] So around now –

[1:00:24] And it goes on for a while.

[1:00:25] It goes on for a while that we're watching people opening presents, people spinning dreidels, people celebrating Ramadan.

[1:00:31] It's like a –

[1:00:32] Yeah, everybody's representing.

[1:00:33] I love it.

[1:00:34] Well, everybody – I mean three religions.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:36] Now the city is inflamed with riots.

[1:00:39] The masses are rioting against the mayor, inflamed by Claudio, of course.

[1:00:43] The mayor's family has to escape through a secret train car tunnel.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:49] Yeah, they go through the antique subway car tunnels that have been closed off for years in the city.

[1:00:54] You know, there's that – it looked like – I think it was the subway station that is beneath City Hall that has been closed ever since September 11th.

[1:01:01] I mean it's not been in use for a long time, but it was closed to tours and things after September 11th.

[1:01:05] I think that – it looked like that place.

[1:01:07] I wonder if they shot it there.

[1:01:08] It's possible.

[1:01:08] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:09] This is around when Wow Platinum and Claudio are celebrating their good fortune.

[1:01:14] They have successfully taken out their rivals.

[1:01:17] Nothing bad could ever happen to them, and they wander into the bedroom of Hamilton Crassus III.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:23] You know the old saying, pride goeth before more success.

[1:01:25] The old aphorism, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:27] So they go into Hamilton Crassus' bedroom, and something – it seems like he's pitching a little tent.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:34] This is – so this is – so I want to get Roman's take on this.

[1:01:38] This is by far the best – I saw this movie in a theater.

[1:01:41] It was just me and four other people, not strangers, not people I know.

[1:01:44] They were watching the movie stone-faced, very serious.

[1:01:47] Yeah.

[1:01:47] And when this line came out, I laughed so loud.

[1:01:50] And nobody else in the audience reacted, and I did not regret it at all.

[1:01:55] And so does anyone want to say what –

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:56] Well, Elliot had been like, John Voight has the best line of the movie.

[1:02:00] And the whole time, like, did I miss it?

[1:02:02] Was it one of those?

[1:02:03] Like, was it just a line that is silly because Elliot's smarter than me?

[1:02:06] Well, I haven't told you all about that, but let's get Roman's –

S4

[1:02:09] Well, I don't – I have to be refreshed to the exact line.

[1:02:12] I remember the moment.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:14] It's roughly – I'm not quoting a direct – I mean, I'm trying to –

[1:02:16] I can quote a direct.

[1:02:17] Oh, yeah.

[1:02:18] So this he wrote down in your notes.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:19] So turning to his son and wife, he says, what do you think of this boner I got?

Dan McCoy

[1:02:27] But then he reveals what the boner is.

[1:02:30] It's a crossbow.

[1:02:32] The crossbow.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:32] It's so funny.

[1:02:33] He whips the blanket over, and he's got a crossbow.

[1:02:36] And it's like – it's so – this is – if the whole movie had been at this level, I would have been like, yes, a thousand percent.

[1:02:42] But the last thing I expected was him to say, hey, what do you think of this boner I got?

[1:02:47] Seemingly, totally sincere.

[1:02:48] You don't know it's a trap at that moment.

[1:02:50] And I was like, this movie, I can't – I can't guess it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:53] And they're so shocked.

[1:02:54] He shoots wow and kills her.

[1:02:56] And then he shoots Claudio and hits him in the ass.

[1:03:00] And he – Claudio manages to escape, only to eventually be beaten up by his own mob.

Dan McCoy

[1:03:05] Well, we'll get back to, of course, the most important thing, Roman's reaction again in a moment.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:10] To John Boyd's boner, yeah.

[1:03:11] Or alleged boner.

Dan McCoy

[1:03:13] He – interesting thing to me is, like, this is a world where guns exist.

[1:03:17] Because we saw Adam Driver get shot in the head.

[1:03:20] So he made a real choice.

[1:03:22] I'm going to kill these people with a crossbow so I can do this boner bit.

[1:03:26] You know?

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:27] You think a gun wouldn't have been able to make enough of a tent in the seats?

[1:03:31] I mean, he's a prideful man.

Dan McCoy

[1:03:33] No, that's true.

[1:03:34] So –

[1:03:35] I think there is a – my guess is –

[1:03:37] The reality of it, though, is –

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:38] I think it's the theatrical – I think my guess is he needed a way for Claudio to survive and escape.

[1:03:43] And an arrow to the butt is a classic slapstick way to get somebody to leave a room.

[1:03:48] But also, as we're recording this before our Caddyshack 2 flop TV episode, a movie which also includes someone getting hit in the butt with an arrow.

Stuart Wellington

[1:03:56] Somebody find out on Saturday.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:59] I mean, find out on Saturday before this episode comes out.

[1:04:04] But there's also a – I assume – I wonder if there's something he's playing off of, some either ancient thing or some story he knows that involves an arrow that he's referencing.

[1:04:14] Since there's so many references in this movie to other things that are floating around in Francis Ford Coppola's head.

Dan McCoy

[1:04:18] Yeah, that's the problem with this movie for me.

[1:04:21] Well, one of the many problems.

[1:04:22] But I'm apparently an atypical man in that I think of the Roman Empire almost never.

[1:04:29] So I don't have the background in history that I would need to understand all of the –

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:35] What about their, like, turtle formation where they lock all their shields together?

[1:04:38] You don't ever think about that?

Dan McCoy

[1:04:40] I'm thinking about it now.

[1:04:42] It's pretty cool.

[1:04:42] They look like a turtle but with spears.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:44] Dan, how often do you think about the Civil War?

[1:04:46] Because that's the other thing I feel like American men think about a lot.

Dan McCoy

[1:04:49] Uh, rarely.

[1:04:51] I think about –

[1:04:52] Do you think about goops?

[1:04:54] Is that a thing you think about?

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:56] Oh, goops goes to college.

[1:04:57] Okay, so that's your Roman Empire.

Dan McCoy

[1:04:59] Movies about small monsters, ghoulies and gremlins and munchies.

[1:05:05] Yeah, Frankie Frico.

[1:05:06] Available on VOT right now.

S4

[1:05:08] Some stealth marketing for Frankie Frico right there.

[1:05:11] Featuring the voices of the floppy.

[1:05:12] It's pretty open.

[1:05:13] To answer your question, Elliot, when this happened in the movie theater,

[1:05:17] it was when Audrey Plaza got shot, actually,

[1:05:20] where I was like,

[1:05:21] I was like,

[1:05:22] Oh!

[1:05:22] I was like,

[1:05:23] All right!

[1:05:24] You know, like, something's happening.

[1:05:25] Like, I was kind of delighted.

[1:05:27] But it was like,

[1:05:28] it was the real classic,

[1:05:30] just,

[1:05:30] this was so different and shocking.

[1:05:32] I mean, the,

[1:05:33] you know,

[1:05:33] when Caesar got shot in the face,

[1:05:35] that was a little shocking,

[1:05:36] because it had a real pop sound,

[1:05:38] like,

[1:05:39] like a Godfather movie pop.

[1:05:40] You know,

[1:05:41] like a,

[1:05:41] like a real,

[1:05:41] like,

[1:05:42] I was like,

[1:05:43] Oh, I remember that guy.

[1:05:44] I like that guy's movies,

[1:05:45] you know?

[1:05:45] Yeah,

[1:05:45] I mean,

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:46] the guy who directed maybe the greatest person being shot in the head scene in any movie ever made.

[1:05:51] You know,

[1:05:51] that whole sequence.

S4

[1:05:52] Totally.

[1:05:53] But the,

[1:05:53] but,

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:53] and then the second greatest guy being shot in the head moment when Mo Green gets killed.

[1:05:58] The best.

[1:05:58] At the end of the same movie.

[1:05:59] He's,

S4

[1:05:59] he's really good at shooting people in faces.

[1:06:02] And,

[1:06:02] I mean,

[1:06:02] he was in 1972.

[1:06:03] It's kind of wasted in this movie,

[1:06:05] to tell you the truth.

[1:06:06] But that,

[1:06:06] that was a move,

[1:06:07] that was a moment of delight,

[1:06:09] just because of,

[1:06:09] it was the,

[1:06:10] the shocking violence.

[1:06:11] Like,

[1:06:11] I had no idea that that was what was about to happen.

[1:06:13] So,

[1:06:14] it was kind of like,

[1:06:14] oh,

[1:06:14] right,

[1:06:15] this thing's alive.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:15] But his,

[1:06:16] but him talking about his boner just left you cold.

[1:06:18] Well,

[1:06:18] no,

[1:06:18] I mean,

[1:06:19] I think the boner was,

S4

[1:06:20] was like,

[1:06:20] it just,

[1:06:21] it really happens kind of all at once.

[1:06:24] There's not a lot of time in between,

[1:06:26] so I didn't have processing time.

[1:06:27] Yeah,

[1:06:28] I was taking a big slurp of my soda and just spit it all over everyone.

Dan McCoy

[1:06:31] Speaking of fearing missing this,

[1:06:33] I knew that there was this line,

[1:06:35] you know,

[1:06:35] all I'd heard about was this line,

[1:06:37] about how John Foy had this great line.

[1:06:39] And the movie is very long.

[1:06:41] Yeah.

[1:06:41] And I,

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:42] it's not,

[1:06:42] well,

[1:06:43] it's not that long,

[1:06:43] but it feels long.

[1:06:44] It is,

[1:06:45] it's like about two hours,

[1:06:46] a little less than 220,

Dan McCoy

[1:06:47] you know?

[1:06:47] Yeah.

[1:06:48] Okay.

[1:06:48] It's,

[1:06:48] it's,

[1:06:48] it's longer than,

[1:06:50] to my mind,

[1:06:52] the ideal length of a movie,

[1:06:53] which is less than two hours.

[1:06:56] It's longer than the first movies.

[1:06:58] It's longer,

[1:06:59] the,

[1:06:59] the important thing is,

[1:07:00] it's longer than my bladder can stand.

[1:07:02] So,

[1:07:03] all through this movie,

[1:07:03] I was like,

[1:07:04] I gotta wait out for this John Voight line.

[1:07:07] And then I finally,

[1:07:08] like,

[1:07:09] I'm in physical pain.

[1:07:10] Like,

[1:07:11] I have to,

[1:07:11] I have to leave the theater.

[1:07:13] Were you pinching it,

[1:07:13] pinching it with your,

[1:07:14] it's not,

[1:07:15] no.

[1:07:16] You were literally pinching your urethra shut with your fingers?

[1:07:18] Okay,

Dan McCoy

[1:07:18] yeah,

[1:07:19] I was pinching my urethra shut.

[1:07:20] Like,

[1:07:20] you're trying to control a fire hose?

[1:07:21] I had to pee so badly.

[1:07:23] I was,

[1:07:24] I was hurting.

[1:07:25] Roman is really rethinking,

[1:07:26] dropping this into the 99 VIP.

[1:07:29] I thought to myself,

[1:07:30] surely,

[1:07:31] surely,

[1:07:32] it will not happen

[1:07:33] at this exact moment.

[1:07:35] If I run to the restroom,

[1:07:36] I will not miss this iconic line.

[1:07:38] And of course,

[1:07:39] it is exactly when this happens.

[1:07:41] And then,

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:42] and you came back

[1:07:42] and the audience was rolling on the floor last night.

[1:07:44] Well,

[1:07:44] I mean,

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:45] fortunately.

[1:07:45] They were cheering,

[1:07:46] firing guns into the air,

[1:07:48] singing all that sign.

[1:07:49] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:07:49] So I looked up the line

[1:07:50] and fortunately,

[1:07:51] you know,

[1:07:51] someone had put most of the scene on TikTok,

[1:07:54] not the boner line.

[1:07:56] Like,

[1:07:57] I saw the,

[1:07:58] I saw the rest of the scene

[1:08:00] that I had missed.

[1:08:00] Leaving a lot of gold on the table.

[1:08:02] Well,

[1:08:02] then in the description,

[1:08:03] it was like,

[1:08:04] like,

[1:08:05] dude,

[1:08:05] right before this,

[1:08:06] the guy said this line about his boner.

[1:08:11] Because like,

[1:08:11] apparently like,

[1:08:12] they whipped out their phone.

[1:08:13] They're like,

[1:08:13] oh man,

[1:08:13] I missed the key point,

[1:08:14] but something else crazy has got to happen

[1:08:16] with this setup,

[1:08:18] you know.

Elliott Kalan

[1:08:18] Because the other thing is,

[1:08:19] it's not like it's an,

[1:08:20] it's not a funny line in and of itself.

[1:08:22] What is funny is that it is appearing

[1:08:23] in this otherwise serious-minded

[1:08:25] allegorical movie.

[1:08:27] Yes.

[1:08:27] Said by Jon Voight

[1:08:28] in a scene,

[1:08:30] near what you have to assume

[1:08:30] is the climax of the film.

[1:08:32] It is such a,

[1:08:32] it's such a,

[1:08:33] it's,

[1:08:34] there's something about how,

[1:08:35] it is the least eloquent thing

[1:08:38] I think a character has said

[1:08:40] in any movie I've seen in years.

Stuart Wellington

[1:08:43] Yeah.

[1:08:44] What a performance.

[1:08:45] Okay.

[1:08:45] So,

[1:08:46] so as we said,

[1:08:48] Crassus gets his revenge.

[1:08:50] The riots are running wild

[1:08:52] around New Rome.

[1:08:55] Caesar appears as like a hologram

[1:08:57] or something.

[1:08:58] And he gives a speech

[1:08:59] talking about like time

[1:09:02] and things like that

[1:09:04] and calms everybody down.

[1:09:05] and like,

[1:09:06] and like shows visions

[1:09:08] of his utopia.

[1:09:09] Is that,

[1:09:09] is that correct?

[1:09:10] Is that what happened?

[1:09:10] Yes.

[1:09:11] This is the,

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:11] this scene,

[1:09:12] so this is the classic,

[1:09:13] the man of genius comes out

[1:09:15] and he gives a speech

[1:09:16] that enthralls the crowd

[1:09:17] and calms their passions

[1:09:18] and wins them to side.

[1:09:19] And the speech he gives

[1:09:20] is so,

[1:09:22] it's such,

[1:09:22] it's just such vaporware.

[1:09:23] It's such empty

[1:09:24] conceptual nonsense.

[1:09:26] And the,

[1:09:27] and it does not speak

[1:09:28] to any of the actual needs

[1:09:29] that these people have shown

[1:09:30] up to this point

[1:09:31] and why they're reacting.

[1:09:32] It's,

[1:09:33] it's like,

[1:09:33] say what you will

[1:09:34] about Donald Trump,

[1:09:35] the terrible,

[1:09:36] terrible person,

[1:09:37] just a,

[1:09:37] just an evil bad man.

[1:09:38] But when he speaks,

[1:09:40] he is directly reacting

[1:09:41] to the needs he feels

[1:09:43] in the audience members

[1:09:44] that he is talking to,

[1:09:45] the ones he wants

[1:09:46] to appeal to.

[1:09:46] Whereas Adam Driver,

[1:09:48] when he's giving the speech,

[1:09:49] I'm like,

[1:09:49] I don't even know.

[1:09:51] I don't know who you're,

[1:09:52] I don't know who you're

[1:09:52] winning over with what

[1:09:53] with this.

[1:09:54] And so to see the audience

[1:09:55] kind of,

[1:09:55] the crowd be like,

[1:09:57] you're right,

[1:09:58] what a true leader.

Dan McCoy

[1:09:59] Yay, platitudes!

[1:10:00] Yeah!

[1:10:01] As an audience member

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:02] in the theater,

[1:10:02] I was like,

[1:10:02] I don't understand

[1:10:03] what he's saying.

[1:10:03] Like,

[1:10:04] I don't,

[1:10:04] this doesn't mean

[1:10:04] anything to me.

S4

[1:10:05] And this is another part

[1:10:06] where I'm just like,

[1:10:07] so,

[1:10:07] I'm so out with this movie

[1:10:09] where it's like,

[1:10:10] where it's like,

[1:10:11] it really tries to have it

[1:10:12] both ways.

[1:10:13] Like,

[1:10:14] it,

[1:10:14] it has great contempt

[1:10:16] for almost all the rich people,

[1:10:18] which is fine.

[1:10:19] Like,

[1:10:19] you can hate

[1:10:20] all the rich people

[1:10:21] all you want.

[1:10:21] The job creators from it?

[1:10:23] Crassus just,

[1:10:24] Crassus totally sucks

[1:10:25] and all the Crassus family sucks.

[1:10:27] Obviously,

[1:10:27] it has this exception

[1:10:28] for Caesar

[1:10:29] because it was

[1:10:29] sort of genius.

[1:10:31] And,

[1:10:32] and what it rests on

[1:10:33] is this idea that

[1:10:34] you have to serve the people,

[1:10:36] give the people

[1:10:36] what they need,

[1:10:37] but it has

[1:10:38] complete contempt

[1:10:39] for the people.

[1:10:40] They,

[1:10:40] they're just this dumb

[1:10:41] mass of people

[1:10:42] that follow Claudio

[1:10:43] or they're this dumb

[1:10:45] mass of people

[1:10:45] that are just like,

[1:10:47] wooed by

[1:10:48] nonsense language.

[1:10:49] I mean,

[1:10:50] there's no actual

[1:10:51] common people

[1:10:51] represented at all.

[1:10:53] in the movie.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:54] There's,

[1:10:54] there's no,

[1:10:54] the only characters

[1:10:55] we see who come close

[1:10:56] to being actual

[1:10:57] on the ground people

[1:10:58] are that one guy

[1:10:59] who plays the tuba

[1:11:00] in the marching band

[1:11:01] in that one scene

[1:11:01] and the kid

[1:11:03] who shoots

[1:11:04] Caesar in the face,

[1:11:06] I guess,

[1:11:06] but you're right.

[1:11:06] There's no,

[1:11:07] like,

[1:11:08] there's no ordinary

[1:11:09] citizen

[1:11:10] point of view

[1:11:11] ever presented in this.

[1:11:13] A movie where

[1:11:14] you have to assume

[1:11:15] hundreds,

[1:11:16] if not thousands

[1:11:16] of people are killed

[1:11:17] by a falling satellite

[1:11:18] that devastates the city

[1:11:19] and that is,

[1:11:21] and that's,

[1:11:21] like,

[1:11:21] I just,

[1:11:22] I just watched

[1:11:23] Life Force recently

[1:11:23] and that's a movie

[1:11:24] that,

[1:11:25] about a,

[1:11:25] about a space vampire,

[1:11:26] about a nude space vampire

[1:11:28] that sucks the life

[1:11:29] out of people

[1:11:29] and that showed

[1:11:30] more,

[1:11:30] more feeling

[1:11:31] for the ordinary

[1:11:32] everyday English person

[1:11:33] than this movie shows

[1:11:34] for the people

[1:11:35] of New Rome,

[1:11:35] you know.

[1:11:35] Well,

S4

[1:11:36] it's ostensible ideas

[1:11:37] are about,

[1:11:38] like,

[1:11:38] serving people

[1:11:39] in the public

[1:11:39] and how to make

[1:11:40] a society

[1:11:40] and society

[1:11:42] is completely

[1:11:42] unrepresented

[1:11:43] in any realistic

[1:11:44] or meaningful way.

[1:11:45] They're all just,

[1:11:46] they're all really

[1:11:47] just pawns

[1:11:48] who are,

[1:11:48] like,

[1:11:48] dumbasses

[1:11:48] who follow Claudio

[1:11:49] or sort of dumbasses

[1:11:51] that are wooed

[1:11:52] by nonsense language.

[1:11:54] It's just,

[1:11:54] like,

[1:11:55] it's weird.

[1:11:55] Like,

[1:11:56] I totally get that.

[1:11:57] You can have Shakespeare plays

[1:11:58] that are all about

[1:11:58] kings and shit.

[1:11:59] You know,

[1:12:00] that's fine.

[1:12:00] Like,

[1:12:01] you don't,

[1:12:01] the commoner

[1:12:02] has to be represented

[1:12:03] in every other media.

[1:12:05] the tragedies

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:06] and there is kings and shit.

[1:12:07] I'm so desperately

[1:12:08] trying to think

[1:12:09] of what Shakespeare title

[1:12:10] I can turn into a pun

[1:12:11] about another word

[1:12:12] for shit.

[1:12:15] But,

[1:12:15] but it's just,

[1:12:16] it's the emelet.

[1:12:17] No,

[1:12:17] that doesn't work.

[1:12:17] What?

[1:12:18] I said kings,

[1:12:19] kingsmear.

[1:12:20] Kingsmear,

[1:12:20] that works pretty well.

[1:12:21] Yeah,

[1:12:22] yeah.

[1:12:23] Toilets and Cressida?

[1:12:24] Does that work?

[1:12:25] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:27] Why did we go down

[1:12:27] this road

[1:12:28] of all the roads?

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:29] Okay,

[1:12:30] speaking of roads,

[1:12:31] so Caesar promises

[1:12:32] these magical floating

[1:12:33] glowing robes

[1:12:34] that are all like

[1:12:35] the Rainbow Road

[1:12:35] and Super Mario.

[1:12:37] Claudio's mob

[1:12:38] turns on him.

[1:12:40] Crassus

[1:12:40] is overcome

[1:12:41] by the glory

[1:12:43] of,

[1:12:44] of Caesar's vision,

[1:12:46] so he leaves

[1:12:47] all of his riches

[1:12:48] to Caesar Catalina,

[1:12:50] so that's going

[1:12:51] to allow him

[1:12:52] to,

[1:12:52] to build this utopia.

[1:12:54] Mayor Cicero

[1:12:55] and the,

[1:12:57] and his family

[1:12:57] join,

[1:12:58] join Caesar

[1:12:59] on this voyage.

[1:13:01] They stand

[1:13:02] upon this glowing

[1:13:03] bridge,

[1:13:04] people are all

[1:13:05] very excited,

[1:13:06] they're celebrating,

[1:13:08] and he manages

[1:13:09] to stop time

[1:13:10] for everyone

[1:13:11] except for

[1:13:12] little baby

[1:13:12] Caesar,

[1:13:13] Julian Caesar's baby.

[1:13:15] And let's say

[1:13:15] that this is a very

Dan McCoy

[1:13:16] strange looking shot,

[1:13:18] too.

[1:13:18] This is shot from below,

[1:13:19] they're all like

[1:13:20] standing on glass

[1:13:21] or something,

[1:13:21] and they're shooting

[1:13:22] through it,

[1:13:23] and there's like

[1:13:24] green screen

[1:13:25] behind them.

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:26] This is also,

[1:13:27] this is such an

[1:13:28] upsetting moment.

[1:13:29] I think it's supposed

[1:13:29] to be a moment

[1:13:30] of like hope

[1:13:31] for the future,

[1:13:32] like this,

[1:13:32] this,

[1:13:33] this ability

[1:13:33] to exist

[1:13:35] outside of time

[1:13:36] and be a creative

[1:13:37] genius is now

[1:13:37] in their child

[1:13:38] as well,

[1:13:39] but it's like

[1:13:39] time has stopped

[1:13:40] except for this baby.

[1:13:41] Who's going to

[1:13:42] feed this baby?

[1:13:42] Like who's going

[1:13:43] to unstop time?

[1:13:44] Not since

[1:13:45] under the skin

[1:13:46] have I been more

[1:13:47] worried about an

[1:13:47] on-screen child

[1:13:48] who's being abandoned

[1:13:49] in front of me.

S4

[1:13:50] But the baby

[1:13:50] is the one

[1:13:51] stopping time,

[1:13:52] right?

[1:13:52] Maybe?

[1:13:53] It must be

[1:13:54] because the others

[1:13:54] are frozen.

[1:13:55] Because she's the one

S4

[1:13:55] moving in every one.

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:56] But I thought she,

[1:13:57] but I thought,

[1:13:58] doesn't Julius Hay

[1:13:59] tell Caesar

[1:14:00] to stop time?

[1:14:00] Maybe I'm,

[1:14:01] maybe I'm misremembering

[1:14:02] it.

[1:14:02] I don't know.

[1:14:02] But then they're frozen.

Dan McCoy

[1:14:03] Like,

[1:14:04] I mean,

[1:14:04] I think she does,

[1:14:05] but it doesn't.

[1:14:05] It's the baby that does it.

[1:14:06] Well,

[1:14:06] the baby doesn't know

[1:14:07] what she's doing.

[1:14:07] It's very upsetting to me.

[1:14:09] It's a very upsetting

[1:14:10] way to end the movie.

Stuart Wellington

[1:14:11] The feeling I get

[1:14:12] is that they're leaving

[1:14:12] the future

[1:14:13] for the next generation.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:15] For the sequel,

[1:14:15] Megalopolis 2,

[1:14:16] Babyopolis.

Stuart Wellington

[1:14:17] My notes then say

[1:14:18] pledge allegiance.

[1:14:20] Did something happen

[1:14:21] after this?

[1:14:21] Was there like

[1:14:22] a speech or something?

S4

[1:14:23] There's a title card

[1:14:24] and I think it's

[1:14:25] the narration

[1:14:26] read by children.

[1:14:29] Yes.

[1:14:29] Oh, yeah.

[1:14:30] And it's like

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:30] we pledge allegiance

[1:14:31] to the human race

[1:14:32] or something like that.

[1:14:33] I pulled this up

S4

[1:14:34] in front of me

[1:14:35] because I wanted

[1:14:35] to make sure

[1:14:36] we had it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:37] It meant so much.

[1:14:37] You printed it out

[1:14:38] and laminated it.

[1:14:39] You put it up on the wall.

S4

[1:14:40] I pledge allegiance

[1:14:41] to our human family

[1:14:43] and to all the species

[1:14:44] that we protect.

[1:14:45] One earth,

[1:14:46] indivisible,

[1:14:47] with long life,

[1:14:48] education,

[1:14:49] and justice for all.

[1:14:50] Is what the kids say.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:52] So,

[1:14:52] stick that on a placard

[1:14:53] in front of your house

[1:14:54] for the next election

[1:14:56] about the values

[1:14:57] in this house.

[1:14:58] I,

Dan McCoy

[1:14:59] look,

[1:15:00] I,

[1:15:01] I,

[1:15:02] the problem with that

[1:15:03] is that it comes

[1:15:04] at the end of

[1:15:04] Megalopolis.

[1:15:05] I do like the idea

[1:15:07] of a pledge

[1:15:07] that is not

[1:15:08] a nationalistic

[1:15:10] sort of

[1:15:11] just like pledge to us.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:12] We can all stand

[1:15:13] behind the values

[1:15:14] of the human race

[1:15:16] and everybody

[1:15:16] getting justice

[1:15:17] and education.

[1:15:18] It's,

[1:15:19] it doesn't fit

[1:15:19] with this movie.

[1:15:20] No, no,

[1:15:21] the movie doesn't really.

[1:15:22] It's a real,

[1:15:23] it's a real Robert Moses

[1:15:24] viewpoint movie

[1:15:25] where it's like

[1:15:25] the people don't know

[1:15:26] what they want.

[1:15:26] The people are sheep.

[1:15:27] They have to be shown

[1:15:28] by a genius

[1:15:29] what is best for them

[1:15:30] and someone needs

[1:15:31] to make the decision.

[1:15:32] It is a movie

[1:15:33] that I think

[1:15:34] is the person

[1:15:35] making it

[1:15:35] thinks they're making

[1:15:36] a pro-democracy,

[1:15:39] pro-equality justice movie

[1:15:40] but they are making a,

[1:15:41] essentially in many ways

[1:15:42] a fascist movie

[1:15:43] about,

[1:15:44] because there is one man

[1:15:45] who understands

[1:15:46] and he needs to take control

[1:15:47] and you should not

[1:15:48] question him

[1:15:49] and eat no matter

[1:15:50] what he does

[1:15:50] and I'm just,

[1:15:51] and maybe I'm just mad

[1:15:52] because I realized

[1:15:53] I should have said

[1:15:53] Toilets Andronicus

[1:15:54] because Toilets and Cressida

[1:15:56] is a poem, right?

[1:15:57] Like it's not a play.

[1:15:58] No,

Dan McCoy

[1:15:59] Toilets and Cressida

[1:15:59] is a play.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:00] Is it a play?

[1:16:01] What am I thinking?

[1:16:01] What's his epic poem then?

Dan McCoy

[1:16:03] I don't know.

[1:16:05] I'm less familiar

[1:16:06] with his poetry.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:07] Shakespeare,

[1:16:07] if you're listening,

[1:16:08] write in and tell us

[1:16:08] which play you want

[1:16:10] to have a toilet.

[1:16:10] If only we had two English majors

[1:16:11] on this podcast.

Dan McCoy

[1:16:14] Yeah,

[1:16:15] I mean,

[1:16:15] we're getting into

[1:16:16] The Final Judgment

[1:16:17] sort of area,

[1:16:18] but like that's,

[1:16:19] that's,

[1:16:20] there's much that is striking

[1:16:21] about this movie.

[1:16:22] There are parts of it

[1:16:22] that sort of took me

[1:16:25] sort of in spite of myself,

[1:16:27] but you're right.

[1:16:28] Guys,

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:28] Toilets and Cressida,

[1:16:28] I was thinking of the poem

[1:16:29] by Chaucer

[1:16:30] and then Shakespeare

[1:16:31] got the play in it.

[1:16:32] That's right.

[1:16:32] Yeah, yeah.

[1:16:32] So Toilets and Cressida

[1:16:34] were worth it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:16:35] Thank you.

[1:16:36] Okay,

[1:16:36] let me just amend

[1:16:37] the scoreboard.

[1:16:38] Okay,

[1:16:38] get it out.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:40] On further review,

[1:16:41] the call against

[1:16:42] Toilets and Cressida

[1:16:43] has been overturned.

Dan McCoy

[1:16:48] You've crystallized

[1:16:49] something for me, Elliot.

[1:16:50] Like the only thing

[1:16:50] that makes sense to me

[1:16:52] about this movie

[1:16:53] as a statement,

[1:16:55] the only way

[1:16:55] I can read this

[1:16:56] is Francis Ford Coppola

[1:16:58] being like,

[1:16:59] geniuses are good

[1:17:01] and above everyone

[1:17:02] and they shouldn't

[1:17:03] be questioned

[1:17:04] and maybe I'm one.

[1:17:07] Because politically.

[1:17:07] I think you strike that

[1:17:08] maybe from the record

[1:17:09] when he's talking, yeah.

[1:17:10] Politically,

[1:17:11] it's all over the place.

[1:17:12] It doesn't make any sense.

[1:17:13] It's not staking out

[1:17:15] any particular

[1:17:15] understandable philosophy.

[1:17:19] It's just a bunch

[1:17:20] of stuff that happened.

Elliott Kalan

[1:17:23] So instead of a fable,

[1:17:24] it should say

[1:17:24] a bunch of,

[1:17:25] a megalopolis,

[1:17:25] a bunch of stuff

[1:17:26] that happened.

[1:17:27] Yeah.

[1:17:27] Which is literally

[1:17:27] like the fifth chapter

[1:17:28] in every Dogman book.

[1:17:30] It's called chapter five,

[1:17:31] a bunch of stuff

[1:17:31] that happened,

[1:17:32] or a bunch of stuff

[1:17:33] that happened next.

[1:17:34] So maybe Francis Ford Coppola

[1:17:35] should have made

[1:17:35] that Dogman movie.

Stuart Wellington

[1:17:36] Stuart, what do you think?

[1:17:38] Dogman, yeah.

[1:17:38] I think he should have

[1:17:39] made that movie.

[1:17:40] Is that where,

[1:17:42] are those the guys,

[1:17:44] the player character race

[1:17:45] you can play in rifts

[1:17:46] that have the body

[1:17:47] of a human,

[1:17:47] but like the head

[1:17:48] and some of the traits

[1:17:49] of a dog?

[1:17:50] Is that Dogman?

[1:17:50] I mean,

[1:17:51] that's kind of like

Elliott Kalan

[1:17:52] a sinusopholic

[1:17:54] or kinosepholic.

[1:17:54] That's the kind of thing

[1:17:55] you see sometimes

[1:17:55] in Old Tales of the Saints.

[1:17:57] Some of them have dog heads.

[1:17:58] Okay.

[1:17:58] But no,

[1:17:59] that's not what Dogman,

[1:17:59] Dogman is about a,

[1:18:00] he's a police officer

[1:18:01] with a dog's head.

[1:18:02] Oh, that's too bad.

[1:18:03] We should get into,

[1:18:04] and it's a best-selling book,

[1:18:05] a series of books for children.

Dan McCoy

[1:18:07] We should get into

[1:18:08] our final judgments,

[1:18:08] but before we do,

[1:18:09] I just want to give,

[1:18:10] Oh, I thought we'd started already.

[1:18:11] I want to give Stuart

[1:18:11] some plaudits

[1:18:12] for how he handled that.

[1:18:15] That's cool.

[1:18:16] Anyone else want to give me plaudits?

Stuart Wellington

[1:18:17] Earlier.

Dan McCoy

[1:18:19] All the plaudits.

Stuart Wellington

[1:18:20] No, I just, you know,

[1:18:21] I was keeping an eye on time,

Dan McCoy

[1:18:23] and early on,

[1:18:24] I'm like,

[1:18:24] Oh, man,

[1:18:24] we're never,

[1:18:25] this is going to be

[1:18:25] a four-hour episode,

[1:18:26] but Stuart,

[1:18:27] you got us through.

[1:18:29] You have to pass.

Stuart Wellington

[1:18:31] You did it.

[1:18:31] The trick is forgetting things

[1:18:33] like satellites falling on you.

Dan McCoy

[1:18:36] But of course,

[1:18:37] this is where we give

[1:18:38] our final judgments

[1:18:39] whether we thought

[1:18:40] that Megalopolis

[1:18:41] was a good-bad movie,

[1:18:43] a bad-bad movie,

[1:18:45] or a movie we kind of liked.

[1:18:46] Is it a movie

[1:18:47] where you get some joy

[1:18:48] out of its badness?

[1:18:49] No joy to be found

[1:18:51] in Mudville,

[1:18:52] or did we actually

[1:18:53] like it a bit?

[1:18:56] I am going to say

[1:18:57] good-bad

[1:18:59] in the sense that

[1:19:01] you so rarely get

[1:19:03] something this personal

[1:19:05] and big.

[1:19:06] Like,

[1:19:07] I kind of,

[1:19:08] in a weird way,

[1:19:09] didn't know whether

[1:19:10] we should do this

[1:19:11] at first,

[1:19:11] like,

[1:19:12] until, you know,

[1:19:13] like,

[1:19:13] we got so many people

[1:19:13] who were like,

[1:19:14] you got to do Megalopolis.

[1:19:15] I want to hear what you say

[1:19:15] about Megalopolis.

[1:19:17] But part of me was like,

[1:19:18] well,

[1:19:18] I don't want to

[1:19:19] like,

[1:19:20] take someone down

[1:19:21] for like,

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:21] I want to give the masses

[1:19:22] what they want.

[1:19:23] I'm a genius.

[1:19:24] I know better than they do.

Dan McCoy

[1:19:25] Well,

[1:19:25] I feel bad about like,

[1:19:27] taking like,

[1:19:27] a passion project down.

[1:19:29] Like,

[1:19:29] even if it's misbegotten,

[1:19:31] like,

[1:19:31] I do

[1:19:33] appreciate

[1:19:34] the swing.

[1:19:36] I don't think

[1:19:38] I don't think

[1:19:41] successful

[1:19:41] and there's large chunks

[1:19:42] of it

[1:19:43] that are boring.

[1:19:45] But I say good,

[1:19:46] bad in the sense

[1:19:47] that like,

[1:19:48] I would not discourage

[1:19:49] anyone with any

[1:19:49] curiosity about this movie

[1:19:52] from seeing this movie

[1:19:53] because it is

[1:19:54] quite an experience.

[1:19:55] You know,

[1:19:56] if you're interested,

[1:19:57] if you're willing

[1:19:57] to commit the time,

[1:19:58] yeah,

[1:19:59] sure,

[1:19:59] watch it

[1:19:59] because there's going

[1:20:00] to be some stuff in it

[1:20:01] that's going to have you

[1:20:02] grasping your head

[1:20:03] and shaking your fist

[1:20:05] to the heavens.

[1:20:06] So that's what I say.

[1:20:07] Stuart,

[1:20:08] what do you think?

Stuart Wellington

[1:20:10] Yeah,

[1:20:10] I mean,

[1:20:11] I feel

[1:20:11] I have less of an issue

[1:20:13] with like,

[1:20:14] targeting passion projects

[1:20:16] because I feel like

[1:20:16] passion projects

[1:20:17] often suffer

[1:20:18] from a certain amount

[1:20:19] of like,

[1:20:20] great man syndrome

[1:20:20] and delusion

[1:20:21] of genius.

[1:20:24] But,

[1:20:24] I don't know,

[1:20:25] I feel like this movie

[1:20:25] would fall somewhere

[1:20:26] in the like,

[1:20:28] between a

[1:20:29] good,

[1:20:29] bad movie

[1:20:30] and almost like,

[1:20:31] there's parts

[1:20:32] of it

[1:20:32] that are a movie

[1:20:32] I kind of like.

[1:20:33] I mean,

[1:20:34] it's,

[1:20:34] I feel like time

[1:20:36] is going to be

[1:20:37] kinder to this

[1:20:38] than at least

[1:20:39] current critics are.

[1:20:40] I feel like

[1:20:40] it reminds me

[1:20:41] in a lot of ways

[1:20:42] of either

[1:20:44] a Neil Breen movie

[1:20:45] or if Neil Breen

[1:20:47] had directed

[1:20:47] the Star Wars prequels

[1:20:48] because it feels

[1:20:50] a lot like those movies.

[1:20:52] Like,

[1:20:52] they're like,

[1:20:54] at least it doesn't feel

[1:20:55] like mass-produced

[1:20:56] garbage,

[1:20:57] but it is still

[1:20:58] kind of like garbage.

[1:21:02] So I guess

[1:21:02] that's not a direct answer,

[1:21:03] but like,

[1:21:04] I'm glad this movie exists

[1:21:06] and I feel like

[1:21:07] if you're interested in it,

[1:21:09] you should check it out.

[1:21:10] It's a mess.

Elliott Kalan

[1:21:11] I feel similar to Stuart.

[1:21:13] I think it's

[1:21:14] good,

[1:21:14] bad with it.

[1:21:15] There's some things

[1:21:15] about it that I like

[1:21:16] that are enough

[1:21:17] to make it a movie

[1:21:18] I am glad

[1:21:20] to have seen,

[1:21:21] you know,

[1:21:22] even if I'm,

[1:21:22] I'm never going to

[1:21:23] watch it again probably.

[1:21:24] And I feel,

[1:21:24] I think you're right.

[1:21:25] Not with your kids.

[1:21:26] Well,

[1:21:27] eventually,

[1:21:27] eventually.

[1:21:28] Dad,

[1:21:28] can we watch Megalopolis?

[1:21:29] You're not ready yet.

[1:21:30] You wouldn't understand.

[1:21:31] Meanwhile,

[1:21:31] I'm trying to get them

[1:21:32] to watch Metropolis,

[1:21:33] another kind of

[1:21:34] politically mushy movie

[1:21:35] set in the city

[1:21:36] of the future

[1:21:37] and they have no interest

[1:21:38] even though

[1:21:38] that's a great movie.

[1:21:39] But they,

[1:21:40] there's,

[1:21:41] I think the future

[1:21:42] film critics

[1:21:43] will look back on it

[1:21:43] knowing what it is

[1:21:45] and being able

[1:21:46] to pick out

[1:21:46] the few kind of pearls

[1:21:48] that are in the morass

[1:21:49] of sludge

[1:21:50] rather than

[1:21:51] us looking at it now

[1:21:52] expecting something

[1:21:54] different than it is

[1:21:55] which is a,

[1:21:56] what we're expecting

[1:21:56] is a coherent story

[1:21:58] with interesting characters.

[1:22:00] And instead,

[1:22:00] future generations

[1:22:01] will be like,

[1:22:02] well,

[1:22:02] that was a fascinating

[1:22:04] capstone

[1:22:05] to Francis Ford Coppola's

[1:22:06] career

[1:22:06] and now we can,

[1:22:07] the same way that

[1:22:08] I just finished reading

[1:22:09] Patrick McGilligan's

[1:22:11] biography of Alfred Hitchcock

[1:22:12] and in that

[1:22:13] he's able to treat

[1:22:14] Hitchcock's later movies

[1:22:16] which at the time

[1:22:16] were considered

[1:22:17] abysmal

[1:22:18] and which are certainly

[1:22:19] not among his best

[1:22:20] but now

[1:22:21] you can look at them

[1:22:22] and be like,

[1:22:22] here's the good things

[1:22:23] in them,

[1:22:23] here's the not so good

[1:22:24] things in them.

[1:22:24] I think it'll be

[1:22:25] kind of like that

[1:22:26] but at the moment

[1:22:27] it's kind of nice

[1:22:27] to watch this movie

[1:22:28] now at a moment

[1:22:28] when you're,

[1:22:29] it's rare that I see

[1:22:30] a movie that has

[1:22:31] this level of

[1:22:31] production behind it

[1:22:32] and this level of

[1:22:33] artistic vision behind it

[1:22:35] where I'm like,

[1:22:36] what?

[1:22:36] Like,

[1:22:37] what is he doing?

[1:22:38] Like,

[1:22:38] why is he doing that?

[1:22:40] And that's something,

[1:22:41] like you're saying,

[1:22:42] Stuart,

[1:22:42] in an era of

[1:22:42] mass produced,

[1:22:44] you know,

[1:22:45] casinos made for the people

[1:22:46] by the mayor,

[1:22:48] you know,

[1:22:48] that's something to be

[1:22:49] at least glad that

[1:22:51] someone's willing to put

[1:22:52] their,

[1:22:53] the shares they sold

[1:22:54] in their winery

[1:22:54] where their mouth is,

[1:22:55] you know?

[1:22:56] Roman,

[1:22:56] what do you think?

[1:22:57] You loved it,

[1:22:57] right?

[1:22:58] I think that,

[1:23:00] you know,

S4

[1:23:01] what is it,

[1:23:01] like 15 years of

[1:23:02] watching bad movies

[1:23:03] has rotted y'all's brain

[1:23:04] because this is a bad,

[1:23:05] bad movie.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:11] Oh,

[1:23:11] Roman,

[1:23:12] I've seen things

[1:23:13] you couldn't imagine.

[1:23:14] Crap movies

[1:23:15] glittering off the shoulder

[1:23:16] of

[1:23:16] RoboCop remake.

S4

[1:23:18] Here's the thing,

[1:23:19] I think this is a bad,

[1:23:20] bad movie

[1:23:21] and I think that

[1:23:22] if you compare it

[1:23:23] to other,

[1:23:23] this is a,

[1:23:24] this is like a false

[1:23:25] premise of like,

[1:23:27] it is interesting

[1:23:28] whereas all like

[1:23:29] superhero movies

[1:23:30] are boring,

[1:23:30] at least this thing exists

[1:23:32] and it has some kind

[1:23:32] of vision or whatever,

[1:23:33] but that is not

[1:23:34] what you are,

[1:23:36] what this thing

[1:23:36] is occupying space of.

[1:23:37] It is occupying the space

[1:23:39] of like,

[1:23:39] take time to stare

[1:23:41] at a loved one's face

[1:23:43] for two hours

[1:23:43] or something like that.

[1:23:44] Roman,

[1:23:45] if that's the way you think,

[1:23:46] you're never going to,

[1:23:47] you're never going to be able

[1:23:47] to make it in this business.

[1:23:47] I was never going to do that,

[1:23:49] that's the thing.

[1:23:50] Like literally do anything else.

[1:23:51] Learn a language.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:54] I meant you deep.

[1:23:55] Certainly there are

[1:23:56] better ways to use

[1:23:57] the limited time

[1:23:58] you have on earth

[1:23:59] for sure,

[1:23:59] yeah,

[1:23:59] yeah.

S4

[1:24:00] I mean,

[1:24:00] it's just,

[1:24:01] if it had this vision

[1:24:03] and was messy

[1:24:04] and was chaotic

[1:24:06] and whatever,

[1:24:07] but it's just like

[1:24:08] as you dig into the ideas

[1:24:10] of the movie,

[1:24:11] I think those ideas

[1:24:12] are bad and dangerous ideas.

[1:24:14] Like I think

[1:24:15] that they actually

[1:24:15] are pernicious

[1:24:16] like,

[1:24:17] that make the world

[1:24:19] a worse place.

[1:24:20] That's why I like,

[1:24:21] I kind of,

[1:24:21] I was almost wooed

[1:24:23] by this idea

[1:24:23] of like the passion project

[1:24:24] that you don't want

[1:24:25] to take on and criticize

[1:24:26] except for that

[1:24:27] the passion project

[1:24:28] is kind of this weird

[1:24:29] like defensive

[1:24:31] great man genius

[1:24:33] that this idea

[1:24:35] of this fake populism

[1:24:37] of like caring about

[1:24:38] the people

[1:24:38] and that even the movie

[1:24:40] cares about people

[1:24:41] and serving people

[1:24:42] but then ignores them,

[1:24:43] ignores their needs,

[1:24:45] like that there's this,

[1:24:46] there's this like phony,

[1:24:48] like kind of me too crisis

[1:24:50] in the middle of this thing

[1:24:51] that's completely dashed

[1:24:52] by like facts

[1:24:53] that make,

[1:24:54] that exonerate this man,

[1:24:56] you know,

[1:24:56] like all that sort of stuff.

[1:24:57] Like if it was,

[1:24:59] if the underlying core

[1:25:01] of this was sort of

[1:25:02] more benign

[1:25:03] or innocuous,

[1:25:04] I would have more charity

[1:25:06] towards its big swings.

[1:25:08] But I think that it actually

[1:25:10] has terrible ideas

[1:25:11] at its core.

[1:25:12] Like,

S4

[1:25:12] I feel like that almost

[1:25:14] makes it more interesting

[1:25:16] to this guy.

[1:25:17] I get that,

[1:25:18] yeah.

[1:25:18] And so like if you're like,

[1:25:19] again,

[1:25:19] in case you're worried

Elliott Kalan

[1:25:20] that this movie

[1:25:20] is going to sway people.

S4

[1:25:22] Yeah,

[1:25:22] I mean,

[1:25:22] I don't think it is either

[1:25:23] but I just feel like,

[1:25:24] I feel like it could,

[1:25:25] it should be held accountable

[1:25:26] for,

[1:25:27] for its dumbness.

[1:25:29] You know,

[1:25:29] like I would argue it does

Stuart Wellington

[1:25:30] because he like spent

[1:25:32] so much of his money

[1:25:34] for a huge flop

[1:25:35] that is being publicly pillory.

[1:25:37] Yeah.

[1:25:37] He owned himself.

S4

[1:25:39] But you know,

[1:25:39] but you know,

[1:25:40] and I know this too

[1:25:41] because,

[1:25:41] because we went,

[1:25:42] we're all like,

[1:25:43] I'm a little older

[1:25:44] than you guys are

[1:25:45] but like,

[1:25:46] you've watched.

[1:25:47] but like,

[1:25:50] you've watched

[1:25:52] like really

[1:25:53] misguided millennials

[1:25:55] in Gen Z

[1:25:56] resurrect

[1:25:57] the,

[1:25:57] the Star Wars

[1:25:59] prequel trilogy

[1:26:00] and talk about

[1:26:01] its secret genius

[1:26:02] and you're like,

[1:26:02] no,

[1:26:03] you don't understand.

[1:26:03] We were there.

[1:26:04] It's fucking awful.

[1:26:05] Like,

[1:26:05] you have to,

[1:26:06] you have to trust us on this.

[1:26:07] The book is closed

[1:26:08] on,

[1:26:09] on that matter.

[1:26:10] And,

[1:26:11] and,

[1:26:11] and you're right.

[1:26:12] This is going to be

[1:26:13] resurrected

[1:26:14] and people are going

[1:26:14] to find things in it

[1:26:15] and,

[1:26:16] and it's just going

[1:26:18] to be just,

[1:26:19] that's going to be

[1:26:19] such an irritating process

[1:26:20] to witness

[1:26:21] in 20 years

[1:26:22] because,

[1:26:23] because it truly is like

[1:26:24] of the moment,

[1:26:25] just to take it

[1:26:26] in the moment,

[1:26:27] it is dealing

[1:26:28] with these ideas

[1:26:29] of,

[1:26:30] you know,

[1:26:31] populism

[1:26:31] and politics

[1:26:32] and,

[1:26:33] you know,

[1:26:33] like,

[1:26:34] and greatness

[1:26:35] and being sort of,

[1:26:38] you know,

[1:26:38] great men being sort of

[1:26:40] like somehow thwarted

[1:26:41] in their,

[1:26:41] in their great,

[1:26:42] you know,

[1:26:42] like,

[1:26:43] what's so crazy

[1:26:44] about the movie

[1:26:44] is like,

[1:26:45] with all this crazy stuff

[1:26:46] that happens,

[1:26:47] like,

[1:26:48] you know,

[1:26:49] everything is just given

[1:26:49] to Caesar.

[1:26:50] Like,

[1:26:51] he,

[1:26:51] you know,

[1:26:52] he has this magic particle

[1:26:54] that heals his face,

[1:26:55] like the richest man

[1:26:56] in the world

[1:26:57] gives him all the money

[1:26:58] he needs to do his thing.

[1:26:59] A satellite

[1:27:00] clears the land

[1:27:01] for him

[1:27:02] to build his thing.

[1:27:04] It's just like,

[1:27:05] it is,

[1:27:06] it is full,

[1:27:07] like,

[1:27:07] this moment

[1:27:09] of like,

[1:27:10] billionaires

[1:27:10] and so-called geniuses

[1:27:12] and bad populism

[1:27:13] and,

[1:27:13] and pretending

[1:27:14] to serve people.

[1:27:15] Like,

[1:27:15] these are bad ideas

[1:27:17] to play with

[1:27:17] poorly

[1:27:18] right now.

[1:27:19] And that's,

[1:27:20] that's,

[1:27:20] that's what I think,

[1:27:21] that's the part

[1:27:22] that really like,

[1:27:23] incenses me about it

[1:27:24] as a movie.

[1:27:25] So,

S4

[1:27:25] so.

[1:27:26] You've given the passionate

Dan McCoy

[1:27:28] swaying the masses speech

[1:27:29] that the movie

[1:27:30] fails to do.

[1:27:31] Yeah,

[1:27:31] yeah,

Dan McCoy

[1:27:31] yeah,

[1:27:31] that's fair.

[1:27:32] I'm one of the dumb masses.

[1:27:34] I want to follow this guy.

S4

[1:27:36] Tell me about your utopia,

[1:27:37] Roman.

[1:27:39] But I want it to be

[1:27:40] so much better.

[1:27:41] Like,

[1:27:41] I can deal with

[1:27:42] all the nonsense of it.

[1:27:43] In fact,

[1:27:43] one of the things

[1:27:44] I think it's the most,

[1:27:45] the miracle of this movie

[1:27:46] is that

[1:27:48] I think Adam Driver

[1:27:49] at the center of this

[1:27:50] comes out pretty unscathed.

[1:27:52] Yeah.

[1:27:52] Like,

[1:27:53] he is,

[1:27:53] he commits to this nonsense

[1:27:55] in this way

[1:27:57] that is almost,

[1:27:59] I just don't even know

[1:28:00] how he does it.

[1:28:01] Like,

[1:28:01] he,

[1:28:02] you know,

[1:28:02] he,

[1:28:02] he sounds like

[1:28:03] he just leans into it,

[1:28:04] but he's not hammy.

[1:28:06] He,

[1:28:06] it's like,

[1:28:07] that's the part where I'm like,

[1:28:09] I liked him more

[1:28:10] coming out of this movie

[1:28:11] than,

[1:28:12] not,

[1:28:12] not than I ever have,

[1:28:13] but like,

[1:28:13] it just added to my esteem of him.

Elliott Kalan

[1:28:15] Well,

[1:28:16] it's something that we see a lot

[1:28:17] in the movies

[1:28:17] on the podcast

[1:28:18] is that

[1:28:18] when you are an actor

[1:28:19] who's in a movie

[1:28:20] that doesn't make sense

[1:28:21] or is not good,

[1:28:22] you never win points

[1:28:24] by being openly disdainful

[1:28:26] of the movie

[1:28:27] or by acting like you know it is.

[1:28:29] Like,

[1:28:29] I think one of the things

[1:28:30] that helps with Adam Driver's performance

[1:28:31] is when he's saying nonsense

[1:28:32] or he's doing things

[1:28:33] that doesn't make sense,

[1:28:34] he is still acting

[1:28:35] as if the things

[1:28:36] that he's doing make sense

[1:28:37] and are rational

[1:28:39] and coherent

[1:28:40] and I think you're right,

[1:28:41] he comes out of it,

[1:28:42] I mean,

[1:28:42] I feel like there's,

[1:28:43] there's most of the main performances

[1:28:44] that come out pretty well,

[1:28:46] you know.

[1:28:46] They're goofy and stuff,

S4

[1:28:47] but I'm just surprised

[1:28:48] like how he comes out,

[1:28:49] like,

[1:28:50] he,

[1:28:50] there's a lesson in here

[1:28:51] with like watching him

[1:28:52] and maybe that's worth watching

[1:28:53] which is like,

[1:28:54] even in life

[1:28:55] or in a movie

[1:28:56] or as a piece of art

[1:28:57] or whatever,

[1:28:58] just lean in

[1:28:59] and do the thing.

[1:28:59] You will be cooler

[1:29:00] if you just do it

[1:29:01] rather than try to resist.

Dan McCoy

[1:29:03] Well,

[1:29:03] that's also like,

[1:29:04] from what I understand

[1:29:05] from hearing people talk about it,

[1:29:07] like,

[1:29:07] he had a much better

[1:29:08] sort of experience

[1:29:09] on the movie

[1:29:10] because he leaned into

[1:29:11] the working process

[1:29:13] of the movie

[1:29:13] and I understand

[1:29:14] that like,

[1:29:14] you know,

[1:29:16] if you don't want

[1:29:17] to lean into that,

[1:29:18] that's fine

[1:29:18] because it sounds like

[1:29:19] this was not a good

[1:29:20] working experience

[1:29:21] for a lot of people.

[1:29:23] if you don't want

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:23] to be like,

[1:29:24] told to do something

[1:29:25] different every single moment

[1:29:26] and then Francis Ford Coppola

[1:29:27] suddenly kiss you

[1:29:28] when you don't want it.

[1:29:28] Yeah,

Dan McCoy

[1:29:29] yeah.

[1:29:29] So I'm not,

[1:29:30] I'm not necessarily

[1:29:31] making an argument

[1:29:32] to ignore that

[1:29:32] but I am saying

[1:29:34] that he,

[1:29:34] he seemed to embrace

[1:29:36] like,

[1:29:37] okay,

[1:29:37] like as an artistic thing

[1:29:39] I'm going to roll

[1:29:40] with this

[1:29:41] and be like collaborative

[1:29:42] and like,

[1:29:43] really like,

[1:29:43] commit to it

[1:29:44] and that's probably

[1:29:45] part of why

[1:29:46] he does come out

[1:29:48] feeling like he.

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:49] I mean,

[1:29:49] we also,

[1:29:49] I don't think we need

[1:29:50] to get into it

[1:29:50] but I'm sure

[1:29:51] there's also an element

[1:29:51] of Francis Ford Coppola

[1:29:52] probably treating him

[1:29:53] better than he treated

[1:29:54] other people,

[1:29:55] you know,

[1:29:56] because he's the star

[1:29:57] that he identifies with

[1:29:58] in the movie,

[1:29:59] you know.

[1:29:59] True, true.

[1:29:59] And he loved 65

[1:30:00] so he saw that

[1:30:02] and he was like,

Dan McCoy

[1:30:02] you were shooting dinosaurs.

[1:30:04] No, no,

[1:30:05] Francis,

[1:30:06] those weren't real dinosaurs.

Elliott Kalan

[1:30:07] He's like,

[1:30:07] I saw that movie you made

[1:30:08] where you got away

[1:30:09] from that comet

[1:30:09] that hit the earth

[1:30:10] with the dinosaurs

[1:30:11] so I'm having a satellite

[1:30:12] hit the city

[1:30:13] let's see if you can

[1:30:13] get away from that one

[1:30:14] and then Francis Coppola

[1:30:15] was watching his own movie

[1:30:16] and he's like,

[1:30:16] son of a bitch

[1:30:17] did it again

[1:30:17] he got away from another thing

[1:30:18] falling out of the sky.

[1:30:22] And Adam Driver's like,

[1:30:23] Francis,

[1:30:24] you made this movie.

[1:30:24] Like,

[1:30:25] you knew it was going to happen

[1:30:25] I don't think so.

[1:30:26] I don't think so.

[1:30:27] I don't know how you did it

[1:30:28] but it doesn't seem

[1:30:29] like my movie.

Dan McCoy

[1:30:32] Yeah,

[1:30:32] I mean,

[1:30:32] my movies are good.

[1:30:33] This one,

Elliott Kalan

[1:30:34] I don't know.

[1:30:35] I mean,

[1:30:35] what if it was like Severance

[1:30:36] where when he went to set

[1:30:37] he had a different personality

[1:30:38] than when he left set.

[1:30:40] Probably.

S4

[1:30:40] I have one more thought

[1:30:41] about Francis Ford Coppola here

[1:30:43] and that is

[1:30:45] I think this blank slate

[1:30:46] that he's given here

[1:30:47] is his real downfall.

[1:30:49] It's like,

[1:30:49] one of the great things

[1:30:50] about Francis Ford Coppola

[1:30:51] I think when he hits

[1:30:53] is he's more of a documentarian

[1:30:55] than a ground up filmmaker.

[1:30:58] Like,

[1:30:58] even,

[1:30:58] like the conversation

[1:30:59] in the movie I love

[1:31:00] and it's a movie

[1:31:01] that kind of doesn't have

[1:31:01] an ending

[1:31:02] but it's just sort of like

[1:31:03] it's assembled in a way

[1:31:05] by different performances

[1:31:07] and having him like surface

[1:31:08] meaning through this

[1:31:10] and I think that

[1:31:11] he,

[1:31:12] and the reason why

[1:31:13] like,

[1:31:14] you know,

[1:31:14] kind of like,

[1:31:15] like even Apocalypse Now,

[1:31:16] one of the reasons

[1:31:16] why it works

[1:31:17] is like he's just there

[1:31:19] documenting,

[1:31:19] documenting

[1:31:19] and he turns it into a thing

[1:31:21] but if he has a green screen capability

[1:31:23] and he's writing

[1:31:24] from the ground up,

[1:31:26] he's like,

[1:31:26] he's a good writer

[1:31:27] of other,

[1:31:28] of,

[1:31:29] he's a good writer

[1:31:29] of taking things

[1:31:31] that he's filmed

[1:31:32] and assembling

[1:31:33] into things

[1:31:33] that matter

[1:31:34] and have meaning

[1:31:35] and are great

[1:31:36] but if he's starting

[1:31:38] from a tabula rasa,

[1:31:40] he just doesn't have,

[1:31:42] there,

[1:31:43] there,

[1:31:43] there's,

[1:31:43] there,

[1:31:44] there are no foundational

[1:31:45] good ideas here.

Stuart Wellington

[1:31:46] Even like Bram Stoker's Dracula,

[1:31:48] he's operating with a book,

[1:31:49] an existing book.

[1:31:50] Yeah,

[1:31:51] totally.

Elliott Kalan

[1:31:51] that he's,

[1:31:52] he,

[1:31:52] all of it,

[1:31:53] I mean,

[1:31:53] his greatest movie is,

[1:31:54] aside from the conversation,

[1:31:55] they're all adaptations

[1:31:56] of something,

[1:31:56] you know?

[1:31:57] Right.

[1:31:57] And,

[1:31:57] and I think you're right

[1:31:58] that his,

[1:31:59] his,

[1:31:59] one of his great strengths,

[1:32:00] like that opening sequence

[1:32:01] in The Godfather,

[1:32:02] the thing that,

[1:32:02] the power of it

[1:32:03] is you feel like you're there.

[1:32:05] Like you feel like you,

[1:32:05] and it feels like he just had a,

[1:32:07] he hosted an Italian wedding

[1:32:08] and you,

[1:32:09] in the 40s

[1:32:10] and you were there,

S4

[1:32:10] you know?

[1:32:11] I would love to see

[1:32:12] his late stage documentary.

[1:32:14] Like,

[1:32:14] like there,

[1:32:15] there's something about his mind.

[1:32:17] adaptation and filming and putting stuff together

[1:32:19] and creating meaning.

[1:32:20] But the idea of him starting from,

[1:32:23] from zero,

[1:32:24] the reason why he's,

[1:32:25] I think he's written something

[1:32:26] that is,

[1:32:27] um,

[1:32:28] extremely juvenile

[1:32:29] is it feels like he's writing something

[1:32:30] for the first time.

[1:32:31] Yeah.

[1:32:32] Um,

[1:32:32] but he has the,

[1:32:33] the ideas and calcification

[1:32:34] of his brain of an older man.

[1:32:37] Um,

[1:32:37] and,

[1:32:38] and,

[1:32:38] uh,

[1:32:38] yeah,

[1:32:38] that's why it really doesn't work

[1:32:40] and why he can be great in this one area,

[1:32:42] which is a,

[1:32:43] this,

[1:32:44] this kind of like interesting narrative filmmaker

[1:32:46] of pastiche

[1:32:47] rather than this whole thing

[1:32:48] that,

[1:32:49] that he creates this whole cloth

[1:32:50] and white.

[1:32:50] it's a big green screen nonsense,

[1:32:52] you know?

Dan McCoy

[1:32:52] And it's clearly been through like

[1:32:54] so many drafts

[1:32:55] that I imagine that he's like,

[1:32:57] all the stuff that should be explained

[1:32:59] that we don't understand in it.

[1:33:01] Like he's like,

[1:33:02] he's lived with it so long.

[1:33:03] He's like,

[1:33:03] oh,

[1:33:03] the audience knows.

[1:33:04] Like he doesn't,

[1:33:05] he no longer has a perspective.

[1:33:06] They know what Megalon is.

[1:33:07] Yeah.

[1:33:07] To realize what hasn't been told to them.

S4

[1:33:10] But anyway,

[1:33:11] this is a,

[1:33:12] this,

[1:33:12] this is,

[1:33:13] this thing's a mess.

Elliott Kalan

[1:33:16] That's what our opening should have been.

[1:33:17] More like Messalopolis.

[1:33:19] Mm.

[1:33:20] You never know what you'll learn more about

[1:33:26] on the Celebrity Trivia Show

[1:33:28] Go Fact Yourself.

S5

[1:33:29] For over 150 episodes,

[1:33:31] we've welcomed guests like DJ Jazzy Jeff,

[1:33:33] Audie Cornish,

[1:33:34] and Andy Richter

[1:33:35] to tell us why they love what they love

[1:33:37] and then get quizzed on it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:33:38] And past quizzes have included

[1:33:40] some pretty unexpected topics like

S5

[1:33:42] reverse painting,

Elliott Kalan

[1:33:43] the perfect flip turn while swimming,

S5

[1:33:45] Prince's house party playlist

[1:33:47] from that one episode of New Girl,

Elliott Kalan

[1:33:49] and so much more.

S5

[1:33:50] Plus,

[1:33:50] our guests meet surprise experts

[1:33:52] in their topics.

Elliott Kalan

[1:33:53] Like the time we met

[1:33:54] an actual celebrity cow.

S5

[1:33:56] So,

[1:33:56] listen to Go Fact Yourself

[1:33:58] twice a month,

[1:33:58] every month,

[1:33:59] on Maximum Fun.

Elliott Kalan

[1:34:00] Do it for the cow!

[1:34:02] No!

S7

[1:34:06] Hey,

[1:34:07] do you have a favorite episode

[1:34:08] of Star Trek?

[1:34:10] If you do,

S6

[1:34:10] you should also have a favorite

[1:34:12] Star Trek podcast.

S7

[1:34:13] Greatest Trek is about

[1:34:14] all the new streaming

[1:34:15] Star Trek shows,

[1:34:16] and it's a great companion

[1:34:17] to The Greatest Generation,

[1:34:19] our hit show about

[1:34:20] back catalog Star Trek

[1:34:21] that you grew up with.

S6

[1:34:22] It's a comedy podcast

[1:34:23] by two folks

[1:34:24] who used to be video producers,

[1:34:26] so it's a serious mix

[1:34:27] of comedy and insight

[1:34:28] that fits right into

[1:34:29] the Maximum Fun network of shows.

S7

[1:34:31] And Greatest Trek

[1:34:32] is one of the most popular

[1:34:33] Star Trek podcasts

[1:34:34] in the world.

S6

[1:34:35] So if you're following

[1:34:36] Lower Decks,

[1:34:37] Prodigy,

[1:34:38] or Strange New Worlds,

[1:34:39] come hang out with us

[1:34:40] every Friday

[1:34:40] as we roast and review

[1:34:42] our favorite Star Trek shows.

S7

[1:34:44] It's on MaximumFun.org,

[1:34:46] YouTube,

[1:34:47] or your podcatching app.

Dan McCoy

[1:34:49] The Flophouse is sponsored

[1:34:51] in part by Factor.

[1:34:53] Have you noticed something?

[1:34:56] Maybe how the days are shorter,

[1:34:57] but your to-do list is not?

[1:35:01] Maybe it's even longer

[1:35:02] from breakfast to dinner

[1:35:04] and anything in between.

[1:35:05] Factor can take one thing

[1:35:07] off your plate

[1:35:07] by providing easy,

[1:35:09] nutritious options

[1:35:10] to keep you fueled

[1:35:11] and feeling your best

[1:35:12] already in two minutes or less.

[1:35:14] Or taking something

[1:35:15] off your plate

[1:35:16] by putting something

[1:35:16] on your plate.

[1:35:18] Choose from six menu preferences.

[1:35:19] I see what you did there.

[1:35:21] To help you manage calories,

[1:35:23] maximize protein intake,

[1:35:25] avoid meat,

[1:35:26] or simply eat well-balanced.

[1:35:28] Yeah, if you like that factor,

[1:35:29] you can have it.

[1:35:30] That's from the Flophouse to you.

[1:35:32] Find comfort foods.

[1:35:34] Well, maybe pay me.

[1:35:35] I don't know.

[1:35:35] You can do that too.

[1:35:36] They are paying us, Dan,

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:37] for you to read this ad.

Dan McCoy

[1:35:39] Fine.

[1:35:40] Yeah, I should do it.

[1:35:41] Find comfort foods

[1:35:41] like homestyle chicken and gravy

[1:35:43] and loaded mashed potato pork chops,

[1:35:46] vegan options

[1:35:47] like sweet potato

[1:35:48] and chickpea curry,

[1:35:49] and globally inspired flavors

[1:35:51] like Peruvian shrimp

[1:35:52] and red pepper

[1:35:54] cowlis grits.

[1:35:55] Use your time

[1:35:56] more efficiently.

[1:35:58] It's so important

[1:35:58] during these dark months.

[1:36:00] Let factor take shopping,

[1:36:02] prepping,

[1:36:02] cooking,

[1:36:03] and cleaning

[1:36:04] off your daily list

[1:36:05] of things to do.

[1:36:07] I've had some of these meals.

[1:36:08] They were delicious.

[1:36:09] They were convenient.

[1:36:11] I love to cook,

[1:36:12] but sometimes,

[1:36:12] I love to just have a meal

[1:36:14] there ready for me,

[1:36:15] and factor was a great way

[1:36:16] to do that.

Elliott Kalan

[1:36:17] And speaking for myself,

[1:36:18] I hate to cook,

[1:36:18] and I love that factor

[1:36:19] does the work for me.

Dan McCoy

[1:36:21] Yeah.

[1:36:21] Stay energized

[1:36:22] with America's number one

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[1:36:26] Head to factormeals.com

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[1:36:43] while your subscription is active.

[1:36:45] Stuart, please.

[1:36:47] Save Me with another advertisement.

Stuart Wellington

[1:36:49] Yeah.

[1:36:50] We're also sponsored by Squarespace.

[1:36:53] Now, this is a particularly important one

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[1:36:55] I think I've mentioned before,

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[1:36:59] called Jiggle Studio.

[1:37:01] It's a studio gym.

[1:37:03] And part of opening up this new business

[1:37:05] involves having a web presence.

[1:37:07] If you have a small business,

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[1:37:12] And she started this process

[1:37:15] using a platform,

[1:37:16] using a product

[1:37:17] that was not Squarespace

[1:37:18] and she had a ton of trouble.

[1:37:21] And I got to tell you,

[1:37:22] I was really glad

[1:37:23] that we had Squarespace there

[1:37:24] to jump onto

[1:37:26] and it was much more easy to use.

[1:37:28] Now, one of the great things

[1:37:29] about Squarespace

[1:37:30] is that if you have a,

[1:37:31] if you have a small business

[1:37:33] or you need a website

[1:37:34] for any reason,

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[1:37:37] than its competitors.

[1:37:38] And also specifically

[1:37:39] that it has a lot of tools

[1:37:41] out there for use

[1:37:42] on setting up a web store,

[1:37:46] taking payments,

[1:37:47] processing all that stuff.

[1:37:48] It makes it a lot easier

[1:37:50] for you than you would think.

[1:37:53] Especially for someone like us

[1:37:54] who are,

[1:37:55] let's say,

[1:37:55] not computer savvy folks.

[1:37:58] Squarespace includes things

[1:37:59] like seamless checkout

[1:38:02] for things like credit card,

[1:38:03] PayPal,

[1:38:04] Apple Pay.

[1:38:05] And it also provides

[1:38:07] all the tools

[1:38:08] that you would need

[1:38:08] to make your website

[1:38:10] easily accessible

[1:38:11] on either the desktop

[1:38:12] or on the mobile.

[1:38:14] Everybody's on mobile these days.

[1:38:16] Ain't that the truth.

[1:38:17] So, if you're in the market

[1:38:18] for a new website,

[1:38:19] and I think you just might be,

[1:38:21] kind of like us,

[1:38:22] you want to head over

[1:38:23] to squarespace.com

[1:38:24] for a free trial.

[1:38:26] And when you're ready to launch,

[1:38:27] go to squarespace.com

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[1:38:37] that's squarespace.com

[1:38:39] slash flop

[1:38:40] to get 10% off

[1:38:42] your first purchase.

[1:38:44] And,

[1:38:45] in addition,

[1:38:45] we also have a

[1:38:46] j-j-jumbotron.

[1:38:50] Rad History

[1:38:51] is a history podcast,

[1:38:52] but just for things

[1:38:53] from the 80s and 90s.

[1:38:55] Search Rad History

[1:38:56] in your podcast app

[1:38:57] right now

[1:38:57] to hear

[1:38:57] Colbert writer

[1:38:58] Daniel Kibblesmith

[1:39:00] talk about Calvin and Hobbes,

[1:39:02] tech blogger

[1:39:02] John Gruber

[1:39:03] talk about the game

[1:39:04] GoldenEye 64,

[1:39:07] New York Times columnist

[1:39:09] Farad Manju

[1:39:10] talk about the

[1:39:11] Challenger disaster

[1:39:12] and more.

[1:39:14] The Golden Girls,

[1:39:16] Blockbuster Video,

[1:39:17] the history of the

[1:39:18] answering machine.

[1:39:19] Every week,

[1:39:20] historian Brian McCullough

[1:39:21] has another deep dive

[1:39:23] into the 80s

[1:39:24] and 90s.

[1:39:25] So search Rad History

[1:39:27] in your podcast app

[1:39:29] now.

Elliott Kalan

[1:39:31] And we've got another

[1:39:32] jumbotron,

[1:39:33] this one of a little bit

[1:39:34] more personal nature

[1:39:35] than the last one.

[1:39:36] This is a message

[1:39:37] for Bryce

[1:39:38] and the message

[1:39:38] comes from Josh

[1:39:39] and the message

[1:39:40] reads as follows.

[1:39:42] Hello, Bryce.

[1:39:43] Yes, you, Bryce.

[1:39:44] Your brother Josh

[1:39:45] bought a jumbotron

[1:39:46] for your birthday

[1:39:47] and now one of the

[1:39:48] floppers is talking

[1:39:49] directly to you.

[1:39:50] Is it blowing your mind?

[1:39:52] I bet it is.

[1:39:53] I bet you're super

[1:39:54] distracted now

[1:39:54] and you messed up

[1:39:55] that piece of steel

[1:39:56] you were cutting

[1:39:56] with a laser

[1:39:57] or whatever it is

[1:39:58] you do.

[1:39:58] Anywho,

[1:39:59] happy birthday, brah.

[1:40:02] What a sweet

[1:40:03] and also taunting

[1:40:05] jumbotron.

Dan McCoy

[1:40:06] I thought it was funny

[1:40:07] when I was handing

[1:40:08] these out.

[1:40:09] I gave this to you

[1:40:10] because you could

[1:40:11] roll into the next thing

[1:40:12] but I was like,

[1:40:12] I want to hear Elliot

[1:40:13] say brah too.

[1:40:14] That's also part

[1:40:15] of my personal joy.

Elliott Kalan

[1:40:17] Yeah, it's what I call

[1:40:18] my own brother,

[1:40:19] not.

[1:40:19] That's not what

[1:40:20] I really call him.

Stuart Wellington

[1:40:21] You're like,

[1:40:22] hey, Brosario Dawson.

Elliott Kalan

[1:40:23] That's what I call him.

[1:40:24] Yeah, yeah.

[1:40:25] I call him

[1:40:26] Broseph of Arimathea.

[1:40:27] Yeah.

[1:40:28] But hey,

[1:40:29] we got one more thing

[1:40:29] to mention.

[1:40:30] This is a Flophouse thing.

[1:40:32] You heard about it

[1:40:32] at the very top

[1:40:33] of the show

[1:40:33] and you're going to

[1:40:34] hear about it again now.

[1:40:35] That's Flop TV.

[1:40:36] That's right.

[1:40:37] Flop TV is back

[1:40:38] the one hour televised

[1:40:40] by which I mean

[1:40:40] video on your computer

[1:40:41] version of the Flophouse.

[1:40:43] It's like getting

[1:40:44] a whole TV show

[1:40:44] of the Flophouse

[1:40:45] every first Saturday

[1:40:47] of the month.

[1:40:47] We've been doing it

[1:40:48] from September

[1:40:49] through February

[1:40:50] and the next one

[1:40:51] is coming up

[1:40:52] the day after

[1:40:52] we record this

[1:40:53] so it will have

[1:40:54] happened a week ago

[1:40:55] when you hear this episode.

[1:40:57] Did you miss it?

[1:40:57] That's okay.

[1:40:59] The video for the episode

[1:41:00] is still getting up online

[1:41:01] and if you buy

[1:41:01] a season pass

[1:41:02] or a ticket

[1:41:03] you'll be able

[1:41:03] to watch it.

[1:41:04] So this season

[1:41:05] is all about sequels

[1:41:06] because it's our

[1:41:06] second season.

[1:41:08] Flop TV season 2

[1:41:09] the sequels.

[1:41:09] We talked about

[1:41:10] Robocop 2.

[1:41:11] We talked about

[1:41:12] Break into

[1:41:12] and as of the time

[1:41:13] this episode comes out

[1:41:14] we'll have just talked

[1:41:15] about Caddyshack 2.

[1:41:16] We're doing it

[1:41:17] the first Saturday

[1:41:18] of every month

[1:41:18] at 9 p.m. Eastern

[1:41:19] 6 p.m. Pacific

[1:41:20] and you can either

[1:41:22] buy tickets

[1:41:22] for individual shows

[1:41:23] if there's a favorite

[1:41:24] movie that you just love

[1:41:24] and you do not

[1:41:25] want to hear the others

[1:41:26] or here's my recommendation

[1:41:28] get a season pass.

[1:41:30] It's six episodes

[1:41:31] for the price of five.

[1:41:32] That's a little tip

[1:41:33] from Elliot.

[1:41:34] You know

[1:41:34] you just don't tell

[1:41:35] anybody I told you that.

[1:41:36] Go to

[1:41:36] theflophouse.simpleticks.com

[1:41:38] again that's

[1:41:39] theflophouse.simpleticks.com

[1:41:41] and get your tickets.

[1:41:42] We got a lot

[1:41:43] of great movies

[1:41:43] coming up.

[1:41:44] We've got

[1:41:44] Highlander 2

[1:41:45] Ski School 2

[1:41:46] and of course

[1:41:47] we round out the season

[1:41:48] with Ninja Turtles 2

[1:41:49] The Secret of the Ooze.

[1:41:50] It's going to be

[1:41:51] too wonderful.

[1:41:54] Right guys?

Stuart Wellington

[1:41:55] Too wonderful.

[1:41:58] That was like

[1:41:59] a ghost was repeating me.

[1:42:00] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:42:01] Let's answer

[1:42:02] a couple of questions

[1:42:03] from listeners.

[1:42:04] This one is from

[1:42:05] Nylo

[1:42:06] last name withheld.

[1:42:07] This is from

Elliott Kalan

[1:42:07] F.F. Coppola.

[1:42:09] Uh oh.

Dan McCoy

[1:42:10] Or perhaps Nilo.

[1:42:10] I don't know.

[1:42:11] But they write

[1:42:12] Intergalactic

[1:42:14] greetings floppers.

[1:42:16] I have a gigantic

[1:42:17] projector built in space

[1:42:19] capable of projecting

[1:42:20] a movie onto the moon.

[1:42:21] What should I show on it?

[1:42:23] And of course

[1:42:24] you know

[1:42:25] the first thing

[1:42:26] that comes to mind

[1:42:26] is from the earth

[1:42:27] to the moon.

[1:42:28] You want to see that

[1:42:29] moon man get

[1:42:31] you know

[1:42:31] a rocket in his eye.

[1:42:33] Yep.

[1:42:35] Yeah.

[1:42:35] Everybody's gagging for it.

[1:42:37] Everyone wants that.

[1:42:38] Look up and be like

[1:42:39] Oh.

Elliott Kalan

[1:42:39] Finally the real moon

[1:42:41] is going to get the

[1:42:41] just desserts

[1:42:42] that the film moon got.

Stuart Wellington

[1:42:43] Finally the stand up

[1:42:44] and cheer moment of the year.

[1:42:45] But what else?

[1:42:46] Moonfall maybe?

[1:42:47] I was going to say

[1:42:48] Akira

[1:42:49] for that scene

[1:42:51] when Tetsuo blows up

[1:42:52] part of the moon.

Elliott Kalan

[1:42:53] I mean

[1:42:53] so I'm going to think

[1:42:54] about this a little more

[1:42:55] practically.

[1:42:55] We don't have sound

[1:42:56] right?

[1:42:56] Because it's just

[1:42:57] being projected

[1:42:57] on the moon.

[1:42:58] Yeah Akira works perfect.

S4

[1:42:59] You have to tune

[1:43:00] your radio

[1:43:01] to a certain

[1:43:01] like frequency.

[1:43:02] Oh maybe yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:43:03] I'm trying to think

[1:43:04] of something

[1:43:05] that would be

[1:43:05] kind of like

[1:43:05] that the visuals

[1:43:06] would pull

[1:43:07] all of humanity

[1:43:08] together

[1:43:08] as one shared family

[1:43:09] once it's projected

[1:43:11] on the moon.

[1:43:11] One Week

[1:43:12] by Buster Keaton.

[1:43:14] I don't know.

[1:43:15] Yeah sure.

[1:43:16] Yeah.

S4

[1:43:16] I mean you're basically

[1:43:18] talking about

[1:43:18] the biggest movie

[1:43:19] in the park

[1:43:19] that you can imagine

[1:43:20] for the summertime

[1:43:21] and so it's going to be

[1:43:22] like Toy Story.

[1:43:23] Yeah.

[1:43:24] I don't think it's going to work.

Elliott Kalan

[1:43:25] Worse things you can go with

[1:43:26] than Toy Story.

[1:43:27] There's going to be

S4

[1:43:27] some Pixar movie

[1:43:28] that you can bring

[1:43:29] all the kids to

[1:43:29] and then

[1:43:30] and that's it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:43:31] Well listen

[1:43:32] I wanted to be

[1:43:32] family friendly

[1:43:32] because if my kids

[1:43:33] are out looking

[1:43:33] at the moon

[1:43:34] I don't want them

[1:43:34] seeing something

[1:43:35] that they shouldn't

[1:43:36] see.

[1:43:38] Different kind of movie.

Stuart Wellington

[1:43:39] What shouldn't they see?

[1:43:41] It's on the list.

Elliott Kalan

[1:43:42] I mean I don't think

[1:43:43] they're ready for Akira.

Stuart Wellington

[1:43:46] Well when are your kids

[1:43:48] going to be ready

[1:43:48] for Akira?

[1:43:49] Daddy daddy

Elliott Kalan

[1:43:50] why is Tetsuo

[1:43:52] expanding into a

[1:43:53] techno organic mass?

Stuart Wellington

[1:43:56] Why is he crushing Cowrie

[1:43:58] when he's trying

[1:43:59] to love her?

[1:44:00] One of these crimes

[1:44:01] of the future.

Dan McCoy

[1:44:03] So Dan that's your vote

[1:44:04] is crimes of the future.

S4

[1:44:07] What are you saying Roman?

[1:44:08] Sorry.

[1:44:08] I saw Paris is burning

[1:44:10] in Lincoln Center

[1:44:11] outside

[1:44:12] and that was a lovely

[1:44:13] experience so

[1:44:14] you know

[1:44:14] that could be one

[1:44:15] that you could do.

Dan McCoy

[1:44:16] I like it.

[1:44:19] This second

[1:44:20] and final

[1:44:21] letter is from

[1:44:23] Anne-Marie

[1:44:24] who writes

[1:44:25] Hey y'all

[1:44:26] and this is

[1:44:26] clearly in response

[1:44:27] to our recent

[1:44:28] break into

[1:44:29] Flop TV

[1:44:31] episode we had.

[1:44:35] Tickets and season tickets

[1:44:36] available now

[1:44:36] for Flop TV season two.

[1:44:37] I wanted to add

[1:44:38] an additional theory

[1:44:39] about how someone

[1:44:40] could dance

[1:44:41] on the ceiling.

[1:44:42] A few years ago

[1:44:43] I played

[1:44:44] Dancing on the Ceiling

[1:44:45] for my then

[1:44:45] four year old niece

[1:44:46] and she said

[1:44:47] it was her favorite song.

[1:44:49] I showed her

[1:44:50] the music video

[1:44:50] and she kept asking

[1:44:51] how did he do that

[1:44:53] and then posited

[1:44:54] that he had

[1:44:55] sticky stuff

[1:44:56] on the ceiling

[1:44:56] so he could

[1:44:57] stick to it

[1:44:57] like a bug.

[1:44:59] So there's another

[1:45:00] Yeah, that's how

Stuart Wellington

[1:45:01] bugs stick to things.

[1:45:02] Alternative

Elliott Kalan

[1:45:02] That's a good theory.

[1:45:03] Well, it's not really

[1:45:04] I don't think it's really

Stuart Wellington

[1:45:05] how they stick to stuff.

[1:45:06] That's how it works

[1:45:07] in Inception too, right?

[1:45:09] Is Chrissy Nolan

[1:45:11] just smeared

[1:45:11] sticky stuff

[1:45:12] all over the ceiling

[1:45:13] and Joseph Gordon-Levitt

[1:45:15] bounced off of it?

[1:45:17] Yep.

Dan McCoy

[1:45:18] So was there a question

[1:45:19] there, Dan?

[1:45:20] No.

[1:45:20] It was just

[1:45:20] sharing an idea?

[1:45:21] It was just a charming tale

[1:45:22] of a child's imagination.

[1:45:27] Sort of like,

[1:45:28] you know,

[1:45:28] I don't know,

[1:45:29] E.T.

[1:45:29] I guess that's not

[1:45:30] an imagination

[1:45:30] but it sparks imagination.

[1:45:32] Anyway.

S4

[1:45:32] I mean, I love

[1:45:33] old special effects

[1:45:34] are great.

[1:45:35] The greatest special effect

[1:45:36] of all time

[1:45:36] is Kermit riding a bike.

[1:45:37] It'll never be beaten.

[1:45:39] It'll be the greatest.

[1:45:40] Like, that's the thing

[1:45:41] that's wowed me the most

[1:45:42] for all of my life.

Elliott Kalan

[1:45:43] There's also a scene

[1:45:44] a woman goes from

[1:45:46] nice looking

[1:45:46] to evil looking

[1:45:47] in camera

[1:45:48] in a movie called

[1:45:49] The Octopus

[1:45:50] in a way that uses

[1:45:51] mic up that only shows up

[1:45:53] on certain colors of light

[1:45:54] and they had a gel

[1:45:55] that were moving

[1:45:56] in front of the light.

[1:45:56] And that effect,

[1:45:57] it's from a movie

[1:45:57] from the 30s

[1:45:58] and the effect looks amazing.

Stuart Wellington

[1:45:59] Yeah, I still think

[1:46:00] the best special effect

[1:46:01] effect is that scene

[1:46:03] where the guy

[1:46:04] falls over

[1:46:04] in the movie

[1:46:05] The Gate

[1:46:05] and he turns into

[1:46:06] a bunch of little guys.

[1:46:07] Yeah, that's pretty good.

[1:46:08] Yeah, that's pretty good.

Elliott Kalan

[1:46:10] And also,

[1:46:11] there's the moment

[1:46:11] in Throne of Blood

[1:46:12] when Tashiro Mifune

[1:46:13] gets an arrow

[1:46:13] through the neck

[1:46:14] and I'm always like,

[1:46:14] did they really kill him?

Dan McCoy

[1:46:18] On that note of credulity,

[1:46:23] let's move on.

[1:46:24] Actually, Elliot,

[1:46:24] I just checked.

[1:46:25] Tashiro Mifune's dead.

Elliott Kalan

[1:46:27] Oh, no.

[1:46:27] They did it.

[1:46:28] Officer,

[1:46:29] arrest Akira Kurosawa.

[1:46:31] We've resolved

[1:46:31] the cold case.

Dan McCoy

[1:46:33] Let us move on

[1:46:34] to our final segment,

[1:46:36] our final regular segment

[1:46:37] of the show,

[1:46:38] which is-

[1:46:38] Dan, I'm looking

[1:46:39] as you scan

[1:46:40] through your letterbox,

[1:46:40] I see Dix the Musical

[1:46:41] on there.

Stuart Wellington

[1:46:42] That scene

[1:46:43] with Nathan Lane

[1:46:44] spitting lunch meat

[1:46:46] on those puppets,

[1:46:47] isn't that great?

Dan McCoy

[1:46:48] I appreciate

[1:46:50] the spirit

[1:46:51] of Dix the Musical.

[1:46:52] I didn't enjoy it

[1:46:53] as much as I think you did.

Stuart Wellington

[1:46:55] So why are you

[1:46:55] recommending it, Dan?

[1:46:56] I'm not.

[1:46:57] This is, again,

Dan McCoy

[1:46:57] I haven't even

[1:46:58] introduced the segment,

[1:46:59] which is-

Stuart Wellington

[1:46:59] I'm just looking

[1:47:00] over Dan's shoulders.

[1:47:01] He scrolls through

[1:47:01] letterbox.

Dan McCoy

[1:47:02] We're recommending movies

[1:47:03] that we have

[1:47:05] seen of late

[1:47:06] or just like

[1:47:07] that might be

[1:47:09] a better use

[1:47:10] of your time

[1:47:10] than, say,

[1:47:12] Take Roman's advice.

[1:47:14] Either stare

[1:47:14] at your loved one's face

[1:47:15] or watch one of these.

Elliott Kalan

[1:47:16] Just stare at their face

[1:47:17] for the full runtime

[1:47:18] of Megalopolis,

[1:47:19] which is like

[1:47:19] two hours and 18 minutes.

[1:47:20] They'll be like,

Dan McCoy

[1:47:21] what are you doing?

[1:47:22] Can you stop that?

Elliott Kalan

[1:47:24] Is Megalopolis

[1:47:25] showing on my face?

Dan McCoy

[1:47:28] I recently,

[1:47:30] I just rewatched

[1:47:32] Lost Highway,

[1:47:33] which I hadn't seen

[1:47:34] since around the time

[1:47:35] it was new.

[1:47:36] David Lynch's

[1:47:36] Lost Highway.

[1:47:39] And, you know,

[1:47:40] because I'd seen it

[1:47:41] when it was new,

[1:47:42] it kind of had never

[1:47:43] struck me like,

[1:47:44] oh, how much

[1:47:45] this is a dry run

[1:47:47] for Mulholland Drive.

[1:47:49] Which is not to say

[1:47:50] it's not valuable

[1:47:50] in its own right,

[1:47:51] but it's like,

[1:47:52] oh, okay,

[1:47:52] like, you're revisiting

[1:47:54] so many of the themes

[1:47:55] and I didn't even

[1:47:56] think about that

[1:47:57] of sort of,

[1:47:59] you know,

[1:47:59] Lynch's films,

[1:48:01] I think it's a bad idea

[1:48:02] to try and just

[1:48:03] decode them,

[1:48:04] but if you're gonna

[1:48:05] go down that road,

[1:48:06] like, there's a lot

[1:48:06] about sort of-

Elliott Kalan

[1:48:07] Is that road

[1:48:08] Mulholland Drive?

Dan McCoy

[1:48:09] Yeah.

[1:48:11] Disassociation after

[1:48:12] sort of a horrible event,

[1:48:14] trying to make sense

[1:48:16] of your life

[1:48:17] through these,

[1:48:17] like, sort of fantasies.

[1:48:19] Lost Highway was his

[1:48:20] first trip down

[1:48:21] that Lost Highway

[1:48:22] to Mulholland Drive.

Elliott Kalan

[1:48:25] Now you're gonna

[1:48:26] wanna go down

[1:48:26] Lost Highway,

[1:48:27] you're gonna take a turn

[1:48:28] onto Mulholland Drive.

Dan McCoy

[1:48:29] Yeah.

[1:48:30] And it's gonna get you

Elliott Kalan

[1:48:31] to the Inland Empire.

[1:48:32] Yep.

Dan McCoy

[1:48:33] If you wanna see

[1:48:33] Bill Pullman

[1:48:34] just wail on a saxophone

[1:48:36] as well.

[1:48:37] Yes.

[1:48:37] That's your best chance.

[1:48:40] I don't know.

[1:48:40] Some would say

[1:48:41] your only chance.

[1:48:43] There's not much

[1:48:44] to say about it.

[1:48:44] I mean,

[1:48:44] if you like Lynch

[1:48:45] and you haven't seen it,

[1:48:46] that's strange.

[1:48:47] If you haven't

[1:48:49] watched it,

[1:48:50] if you're not a Lynch person,

[1:48:51] maybe it's not gonna start with.

[1:48:53] What if you're like

Stuart Wellington

[1:48:53] a huge Robert Blake fan?

[1:48:55] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:48:56] But not his movies,

[1:48:57] more his personal life.

[1:48:58] Not his eyebrows.

Elliott Kalan

[1:49:01] I love Robert Blake.

[1:49:02] I just hate

[1:49:03] when he has hair

[1:49:03] below his forehead.

[1:49:05] Oh, have I got a picture

[1:49:06] for you?

[1:49:06] See?

[1:49:08] Anyway.

[1:49:08] That's one of those movies,

[1:49:09] I feel like Lost Highway

[1:49:10] is the opposite

[1:49:12] of Megalopolis

[1:49:13] in that it is a movie

[1:49:14] that when it came out,

[1:49:15] I remember the reviews

[1:49:16] were like,

[1:49:16] what?

[1:49:17] Scathing.

[1:49:17] They were scathing

[1:49:18] because it had a

[1:49:19] non-linear,

[1:49:22] not totally rational plot.

[1:49:23] But you watch it now

[1:49:24] and you're like,

[1:49:25] oh,

[1:49:25] now I know what Lynch does.

[1:49:27] I understand what he's doing.

[1:49:28] And honestly,

[1:49:28] the fact that film reviewers

[1:49:29] saw it at the time

[1:49:30] and weren't like,

[1:49:30] oh,

[1:49:30] it's a David Lynch movie,

[1:49:31] I have to watch it

[1:49:32] through David Lynch glasses.

[1:49:33] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:49:34] I don't know if I ever

[1:49:35] told this story,

[1:49:35] but I remember seeing it

[1:49:36] at the very small

[1:49:37] independent theater

[1:49:38] in my hometown.

[1:49:40] And it was a late screening

[1:49:41] and we got out

[1:49:42] and I was driving

[1:49:43] my friends home

[1:49:44] and I remembered,

[1:49:45] you know,

[1:49:46] driving up to a red light.

[1:49:47] The light turned green

[1:49:48] and then it turned red again

[1:49:50] and I had just sat there

[1:49:51] the whole time

[1:49:52] because my brain

[1:49:53] was processing

[1:49:54] what I just watched.

[1:49:55] Yeah.

[1:49:56] A lot.

[1:49:57] Let's go in the same order

[1:49:58] we did our judgments.

[1:49:59] Stuart,

[1:49:59] what do you have?

[1:50:00] Okay.

[1:50:00] I'm going to recommend

[1:50:01] a movie I saw

[1:50:02] a couple weeks back.

[1:50:04] I saw Anora,

[1:50:06] the new Sean Baker movie.

[1:50:08] It's a,

[1:50:10] I guess,

[1:50:10] a offbeat comedy

[1:50:12] love story

[1:50:14] about a young sex worker

[1:50:17] who marries the son

[1:50:19] of an oligarch

[1:50:20] in Brighton Beach, Brooklyn.

[1:50:24] It's a very New York movie

[1:50:25] in that way.

[1:50:26] There's a scene

[1:50:27] where they fucking go

[1:50:28] to Tatiana's

[1:50:29] in Brighton Beach

[1:50:29] and I was like,

[1:50:30] whoa,

[1:50:31] I go there.

[1:50:33] And yeah,

[1:50:33] I mean,

[1:50:34] I'm like Anora.

[1:50:37] It,

[1:50:37] yeah,

[1:50:38] I mean,

[1:50:39] I feel like it really

[1:50:39] captures the like,

[1:50:40] rush and craziness

[1:50:42] of like love

[1:50:43] and hope

[1:50:44] and also like

[1:50:45] hoping against

[1:50:47] the crushing

[1:50:48] power of capitalism

[1:50:50] and shittiness.

[1:50:51] And then,

[1:50:52] of course,

[1:50:53] it's,

[1:50:53] things start to,

[1:50:54] you know,

[1:50:54] come back to earth

[1:50:55] and things get a little bit rough.

[1:50:57] It's got,

[1:50:58] you know,

[1:50:58] an incredible central performance

[1:51:00] by Mikey Madison

[1:51:00] as the title character.

[1:51:03] Yeah,

[1:51:03] I think,

[1:51:04] I thought it was great.

[1:51:05] I love it.

[1:51:06] Yeah,

[1:51:06] check it out.

Elliott Kalan

[1:51:07] Cool.

[1:51:07] I'm also going to recommend

[1:51:08] an offbeat comedy romance,

[1:51:10] but not the same one.

[1:51:12] This is,

[1:51:12] I'm going to want,

[1:51:13] I want to recommend the movie

[1:51:13] You and Me

[1:51:14] from 1938.

[1:51:15] This is a movie directed

[1:51:17] by Fritz Lang,

[1:51:18] director of Metropolis,

[1:51:19] the movie I mentioned earlier,

[1:51:20] but it's a very different movie

[1:51:21] than Metropolis.

[1:51:22] And Sylvia Sidney

[1:51:23] is a woman

[1:51:24] who works at a department store.

[1:51:26] The department store

[1:51:26] makes a point

[1:51:27] of hiring ex-convicts

[1:51:28] to give them

[1:51:29] a second chance

[1:51:30] at life.

[1:51:31] And George Raft

[1:51:32] is one of those ex-convicts

[1:51:33] and they fall in love.

[1:51:34] She doesn't want him to know

[1:51:35] she's also an ex-convict

[1:51:36] because when you're on parole,

[1:51:37] you're not allowed

[1:51:38] to fall in love

[1:51:38] and you're not allowed

[1:51:39] to get married.

[1:51:40] And so she has to hide from him

[1:51:42] that she is also a convict

[1:51:44] and that the repercussions

[1:51:47] of that involve him

[1:51:48] getting back involved in crime.

[1:51:50] And it's a surprisingly sweet movie

[1:51:52] for a movie about criminals

[1:51:54] directed by Fritz Lang.

[1:51:56] And it also has some

[1:51:57] musical numbers in it

[1:51:58] with some of the music

[1:51:59] written by Kurt Weill.

[1:52:00] So it's a real strange movie.

[1:52:03] It's this kind of

[1:52:04] somewhat anti-capitalist

[1:52:05] romance drama comedy

[1:52:07] crime movie

[1:52:08] with Sylvia Sidney

[1:52:10] and George Raft.

[1:52:11] But I really loved it.

[1:52:12] I really enjoyed it.

[1:52:13] It's the kind of movie

[1:52:13] that you could crank out

[1:52:15] in the 30s

[1:52:15] because they were making

[1:52:16] so many movies

[1:52:17] that sometimes

[1:52:18] one of these popped out

[1:52:19] where it was like,

[1:52:20] this is kind of a stranger movie

[1:52:21] than it had any right to be.

[1:52:23] It could have been

[1:52:23] a pretty down the middle movie,

[1:52:24] but there's some great scenes in it.

[1:52:26] And, you know,

[1:52:27] Sylvia Sidney's been on my mind

[1:52:29] since there's that new

[1:52:29] Beetlejuice movie.

[1:52:30] She's not in the new one,

[1:52:31] but, you know,

[1:52:31] since she was in the old one,

[1:52:33] you know.

[1:52:34] So that's you and me.

[1:52:36] Play Juno.

S4

[1:52:37] Yeah.

[1:52:38] I was having a hard time

[1:52:41] thinking of what to recommend,

[1:52:42] but I think

[1:52:42] the one I'd settle on

[1:52:44] is Hearts of Darkness

[1:52:45] of Filmmaker's Apocalypse,

[1:52:47] which is the documentary

[1:52:47] Eleanor Coppola made

[1:52:49] of Francis Ford Coppola

[1:52:51] making Apocalypse Now.

[1:52:54] One of the things

[1:52:55] that ends the movie,

[1:52:57] Megalopolis,

[1:52:59] is at the very end,

[1:53:00] it says,

[1:53:00] For Eleanor,

[1:53:01] which is sort of like

[1:53:02] this moment

[1:53:03] where I'm feeling

[1:53:04] like kind of seething

[1:53:05] for this thing.

[1:53:07] And then there's

[1:53:07] a sweet moment

[1:53:08] of their long-term relationship

[1:53:10] and how she was

[1:53:11] such a gifted filmmaker

[1:53:12] as evidenced by this piece

[1:53:15] that did like

[1:53:16] make me think,

[1:53:16] okay,

[1:53:17] he did what he wanted to.

[1:53:19] It's all okay.

[1:53:20] I, you know,

[1:53:21] like,

[1:53:21] and that was a nice

[1:53:23] sort of like

[1:53:24] homage to her.

[1:53:25] But she was

[1:53:26] an extremely good

[1:53:27] documentary filmmaker.

[1:53:29] It made me appreciate

[1:53:31] Apocalypse Now

[1:53:31] so much more.

[1:53:33] It gave you

[1:53:33] so much insight

[1:53:34] into making a movie.

[1:53:36] It's just like

[1:53:36] has so much drama.

[1:53:37] It's so fascinating.

[1:53:39] I really love

[1:53:40] Hearts of Darkness.

[1:53:40] I saw it as a kid.

[1:53:43] Well, not a kid.

[1:53:43] I guess I was

[1:53:44] pretty soon after it came out.

[1:53:45] I guess I was 15 or 16.

[1:53:47] And Hearts of Darkness,

[1:53:49] not Apocalypse Now.

[1:53:50] I had not seen

[1:53:51] Apocalypse Now.

[1:53:52] I caught this like

[1:53:53] on HBO or something.

[1:53:54] And then I saw it afterward.

[1:53:56] I'd kind of heard

[1:53:57] about Apocalypse Now.

[1:53:58] And it just,

[1:53:59] it gave me the blueprint

[1:54:00] for appreciating

[1:54:01] another sort of like

[1:54:02] good mess of a movie.

[1:54:04] You know,

[1:54:04] that's a,

[1:54:05] I think that's a good mess

[1:54:06] Apocalypse Now

[1:54:06] in a lot of ways.

[1:54:08] But I,

[1:54:09] I love this.

[1:54:10] It's one of the reasons

[1:54:11] why I love documentaries.

[1:54:12] I think it's just

[1:54:13] expertly and beautifully made.

Dan McCoy

[1:54:15] Hearts of Darkness.

[1:54:15] I think I also saw it

[1:54:16] before I saw Apocalypse Now.

[1:54:18] I saw it with my like

[1:54:19] college girlfriend.

[1:54:20] We were at her house

[1:54:22] in Cleveland

[1:54:22] and we went to like,

[1:54:23] we were just like

[1:54:24] young like film buffs

[1:54:25] and we're like,

[1:54:26] what arty thing can we get?

[1:54:27] We'll get this.

[1:54:28] I know it's a good documentary

[1:54:29] and it is a testament to it.

[1:54:31] Like even

[1:54:31] without having seen the movie,

[1:54:33] I'm like,

[1:54:33] this is fascinating

[1:54:34] in its own right

[1:54:35] and then gets richer

[1:54:36] once you've seen the film.

[1:54:38] Or like most people,

[1:54:39] you've probably seen

[1:54:40] Apocalypse Now first

[1:54:41] and then catch up.

[1:54:41] Well,

S4

[1:54:42] I mean,

[1:54:42] it's weird.

[1:54:43] I mean,

[1:54:43] I think people

[1:54:44] take things in a lot

[1:54:45] differently now

[1:54:45] and like you never know.

[1:54:47] But I think this movie

[1:54:48] is great.

[1:54:49] I think it's actually

[1:54:49] better than Apocalypse Now.

[1:54:51] But that's my own flavor.

[1:54:54] That to me

[1:54:55] is like not defensible.

[1:54:57] That's just taste.

[1:54:57] You know,

[1:54:58] that's...

Elliott Kalan

[1:54:58] That's just a personal choice.

[1:55:00] Dan,

[1:55:00] there are people

[1:55:00] who saw Spaceballs

[1:55:01] before Star Wars.

[1:55:02] People watch things

[1:55:03] in all sorts of crazy orders.

[1:55:04] You know?

Dan McCoy

[1:55:04] Yeah.

[1:55:05] Yeah.

[1:55:05] These days.

Stuart Wellington

[1:55:06] I thought you were about

[1:55:07] to mention a documentary

[1:55:08] about the making

[1:55:09] of Spaceballs.

[1:55:10] That'll be fascinating.

Elliott Kalan

[1:55:12] People see

[1:55:13] May the Schwartz

[1:55:13] be with you

[1:55:14] a filmmaker's journey.

[1:55:15] That's not what

[1:55:16] Balls of Fury was?

[1:55:17] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:55:18] How'd they rig up

[1:55:19] that bit where

[1:55:20] Rick Moranis

[1:55:20] goes flying through

[1:55:22] the...

[1:55:23] It's not much

[1:55:23] documentary to find out.

[1:55:25] Wasn't that real?

Dan McCoy

[1:55:27] Did they kill

[1:55:28] Rick Moranis?

Elliott Kalan

[1:55:29] Did they kill

[1:55:29] Rick Moranis

[1:55:30] in that moment?

Dan McCoy

[1:55:31] All right.

[1:55:31] Well,

[1:55:31] we should wrap this up

[1:55:33] with a big thank you.

Elliott Kalan

[1:55:34] I want to see...

[1:55:35] Now wait.

[1:55:35] Sorry.

[1:55:35] Now I want to see

[1:55:35] a comedy sketch

[1:55:36] in a show

[1:55:36] where they're like,

[1:55:37] okay,

[1:55:38] they're talking to

[1:55:38] the lead actor

[1:55:38] on a movie set

[1:55:39] and they're like,

[1:55:39] we saved this last stunt

[1:55:40] to the end of the shooting

[1:55:41] because you're going

[1:55:42] to die when you do it.

[1:55:43] The only way

[1:55:44] to get the shot

[1:55:45] is to kill you

[1:55:45] while you do it.

[1:55:47] Okay.

[1:55:47] That's why we shot

[1:55:48] all your scenes ahead of...

[1:55:49] So,

[1:55:49] I don't know

[1:55:50] if that's a good idea.

[1:55:50] No,

[1:55:50] it's okay.

[1:55:51] We shot the rest

[1:55:51] of the movie already.

[1:55:52] We shot it already.

[1:55:53] We're done.

[1:55:54] We're wrapped on that.

[1:55:55] So,

[1:55:55] this is your last thing

[1:55:55] you have to do.

[1:55:56] We'll be covered.

Dan McCoy

[1:55:59] Before I say...

[1:56:00] Before we say goodbye,

[1:56:01] I want to just say

[1:56:03] thank you to Roman

[1:56:04] for being on this episode.

[1:56:06] We all know

[1:56:07] how busy you are

[1:56:09] and so we're always

[1:56:10] charmed when you make time

[1:56:11] for our shenanigans.

[1:56:12] Delighted.

[1:56:13] Long time fan

[1:56:14] and supporter.

[1:56:15] I'm so happy to be here.

[1:56:16] It makes me very,

[1:56:16] very happy.

Elliott Kalan

[1:56:18] What were you going to say,

[1:56:19] Elliot?

Elliott Kalan

[1:56:19] If you want more

[1:56:20] shenanigans like this,

[1:56:21] just tune into

[1:56:22] the 99% Invisible Breakdown,

[1:56:23] The Power Broker.

[1:56:24] Exactly the same.

[1:56:25] It's exactly like this show.

[1:56:26] It's just like it.

[1:56:27] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:56:28] Just cutting it up.

[1:56:30] Before we go,

[1:56:31] thank you to our producer,

[1:56:33] Alex Smith.

[1:56:34] He goes by the name

[1:56:35] Howell Dottie

[1:56:36] on the internet.

[1:56:37] He does music.

[1:56:39] He does Twitch streams.

[1:56:40] He does a lot of stuff.

[1:56:40] Look him up.

[1:56:41] Thank you to our network,

[1:56:43] Maximum Fun.

[1:56:44] If you go to

[1:56:44] MaximumFun.org,

[1:56:45] there are a lot of great

[1:56:46] other podcasts

[1:56:48] you can listen to.

[1:56:49] About culture,

[1:56:50] about comedy,

[1:56:51] you'll find something you like.

[1:56:53] But that's it for this episode.

[1:56:54] For the Flophouse,

[1:56:55] I've been Dan McCoy.

[1:56:57] I'm Stuart Wellington.

Elliott Kalan

[1:56:58] I'm Elliot Kalin.

[1:57:00] I'm Roman Mars.

[1:57:01] I'm going to take that again.

[1:57:03] I'm Roman Mars.

[1:57:05] That's it.

[1:57:07] What a professional.

[1:57:07] Bye.

Dan McCoy

[1:57:11] Professionalism undone.

Elliott Kalan

[1:57:13] Roman's like,

[1:57:14] let me make sure I say that

[1:57:14] the right way.

[1:57:15] And then Stuart's like,

[1:57:16] on this episode,

Dan McCoy

[1:57:27] we discuss

Elliott Kalan

[1:57:33] Do you want me to have one?

[1:57:34] Do you want me to do one?

[1:57:35] No, I'll just start it over again.

[1:57:36] Stuart,

[1:57:37] you leaned in like you had one.

[1:57:38] I didn't say anything.

Dan McCoy

[1:57:40] We're embarrassing ourselves

[1:57:41] in front of Roman.

[1:57:42] Okay.

[1:57:42] No, no, no.

[1:57:43] Roman knows we're cool.

[1:57:44] This is the whole experience.

[1:57:45] Maximum Fun.

[1:57:48] A worker-owned network

[1:57:49] of artist-owned shows

[1:57:50] supported

[1:57:51] directly

[1:57:52] by you.

Ep.#437 - Megalopolis, with Roman Mars

Transcript

In this episode

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