Casters on Casters: John Hodgman, Dan McCoy, Jesse Thorn, and Stuart Wellington

[0:00] Hello! Welcome to the MaxFunDrive. Happy first day. I'm here. I'm Dan McCoy, and I'm with...

[0:08] Stuart Wellington. If you are a fan of The Flop House, this is the best time for you to

[0:13] support your favorite show, us. And during this time, we're going to be putting out some bonus

[0:20] episodes. We're trying to put out some of our best episodes. In fact, we are releasing episodes

[0:26] where we are torturing each other with the worst movies we can make the others watch. It's going

[0:30] to be so much fun. And, you know, this is a little treat at the beginning of the drive,

[0:37] so we hope you enjoy it. Flop House listeners, of course, are the best listeners on the planet.

[0:44] Thank you for supporting us, and enjoy the show. And if you can, head over to

[0:48] maximumfun.org join to support The Flop House. Welcome to Casters on Casters, conversations

[0:58] about the art and craft of podcasting with the masters of the microphone, the titans of talking,

[1:06] the rulers of remote recordings. On today's show, John Hodgman and Jesse Thorne,

[1:15] the Judge John Hodgman Show, and Dan McCoy and Stuart Wellington of The Flop House.

[1:24] This is Casters on Casters. So why don't we clap at the turn of the minute?

[1:32] Let's hold, hold, Dan, hold. Let's do it at 10 seconds past the minute.

[1:36] Okay. Give everyone a chance to get their clapping hands limbered.

[1:44] And let's make sure we leave that in because this is Casters on Casters, all about podcasting,

[1:50] the tips, the tricks, the techniques. I'm John Hodgman. Here's your host, founder of Maximum

[1:56] Fun, co-host and co-creator of the Judge John Hodgman Podcast, as well as co-host and co-creator

[2:02] of Jordan & Jesse Go, as well as creator and host of Bullseye, among many other endeavors.

[2:09] To introduce our other guests, it's Jesse Thorne.

[2:12] Hi, John. Thank you for having me here on Casters on Casters. Glad to do it. I'm a caster myself,

[2:17] so I'm the perfect person to be on this show with you, a caster, and with us are two other casters.

[2:23] You truly sound like AI right now. That was pretty amazing.

[2:28] Yeah, I could hear the sixth finger.

[2:29] I am so pumped to be here right now on Casters on Casters. Thank you for this opportunity.

[2:37] From the Flophouse Podcast, Dan McCoy and Stuart Wellington. Hi, Dan and Stu.

[2:41] Hey.

[2:43] Casters does sound cooler than podcaster, but it still sounds very uncool.

[2:49] Well, the idea is for it to sound like ... It's supposed to be like actors on actors. That's the

[2:55] idea. What our goal ... The MaxFunDrive is starting as this show drops. Our goal for this is to give

[3:03] you guys a little peek behind the scenes about what we do, why we do it, how we do it, and we're

[3:11] doing it by convening a round table of probably the four greatest podcasters of all time. That'll

[3:17] be me, Stu, Dan, and John. I'm sitting in for Adam Carolla.

[3:26] The folks who are listening to this on the Flophouse feed, of course, know who Dan and

[3:31] Stu are from the Flophouse, but for those who might be listening on the Judge John Hodgman

[3:35] feed, tell us what the Flophouse is all about. We used to say we watch a bad movie and then we

[3:43] talk about it. Then over the years, I became increasingly guilty about feeling like we were

[3:50] not only one parasitical making fun of things, but also I didn't want people to get the idea

[3:57] that we prejudge because, honestly, sometimes we end up liking things we watch. Now we say it's

[4:07] a podcast where we watch something that was a critical or commercial flop and see what we think.

[4:15] And you heard Dan reset there, listener, which is a critical tool in podcasting when you find

[4:21] yourself sort of just saying, now, hang on, I'm going to retake that. So you just heard Dan McCoy

[4:27] reset there, a critical tool in podcasting. When you lose your train of thought, you get it back

[4:31] again. You give a clean edit to the editor. In our case, Judge John Hodgman, it's A.J. McKeon. Who

[4:36] does the editing over in your podcast? So our producer and editor is Alex Smith, who goes by,

[4:44] he is also an entertainer in his own right, who goes by the name Howell Doughty. He's a

[4:51] longtime friend, best man at my wedding, in fact. And yeah, he's great. Our producer,

[4:57] Jennifer Marmer, is actually on the line. She's hosting the StreamYard recording we're using to

[5:02] record this. And I find her presence very comforting, even though I can't see her,

[5:06] just to know that she's there. Yeah, it is nice. Nice to have Dan around always.

[5:12] Um, let me ask you guys a question. How do you pick a movie for the show?

[5:17] We used to, in the early days, we would literally go to a video store.

[5:22] Yeah. Wow. Which is why we kind of settled. What was the one on Flatbush Avenue, Dan?

[5:28] I mean, it was obviously long, long gone. It was in Clinton Hill. I don't remember the name of it.

[5:38] I just remember going in there and being an adult man renting Bratz the movie and thinking,

[5:46] I've been put on a list. Yeah, yeah. The watch list is in effect.

[5:50] But then, you know, at this point, we are able to use both our media literacy and our

[6:00] pop culture kind of finger on the pulse to figure out what people are talking about.

[6:04] Mm hmm. And then we do it several months later.

[6:08] Yeah. And then there's also a little bit of crowd sourcing. You know, we'll have

[6:12] friends or friends who might work as critics or just listeners who will reach out to us and be

[6:18] like, you got to do this one. And then we check to see if it's as close to 90 minutes as possible.

[6:25] Yeah, that's the best. You know, this suggests a question to me, and maybe Jennifer Marmer

[6:31] has more of a hand in this. But how do you know what a good conflict is to talk about

[6:36] on your show? How do you select that sort of thing?

[6:39] Yeah, great question, Dan. I'm John Hodgman from the Judge John Hodgman podcast. And

[6:44] Jesse Thorne came to me less than 18 years ago, but not very many years less,

[6:51] saying, would you ever do a judge show as a segment on Jordan, Jesse Go? And I said, yes.

[6:57] And we had so much fun doing it that we created this podcast together where

[7:01] real people essentially call in with real, usually domestic disputes about,

[7:07] I don't know, Jesse, what? Well, we just like a guy wants to put a door in a door place.

[7:11] Mostly people write in about dishes related matters.

[7:14] A lot of dishwashing style conflicts in homes. It's true. And then, you know, probably one of

[7:23] our most iconic episodes was the Bat Brothers episode. Two brothers in a house in Kansas,

[7:28] wasn't it, Jesse? Yeah, it was in Kansas. In fact,

[7:30] it was not very far from where my grandparents grew up, in Iola, Kansas.

[7:36] And they had a bat problem in the house, and one of them wanted to figure out a way to let the

[7:40] bats out of the house, and the other one just wanted to smash them with a dictionary that he

[7:44] kept by his bed. And the question was, which is the better way, John?

[7:48] They were getting into the bathroom. He kept the dictionary by the toilet.

[7:52] The bat room? Thank you.

[7:55] To me, the most distinctive part of the Bat Brothers, and the part that I always emphasize

[8:00] in the telling, and probably should not be emphasized, is that they bought this house

[8:04] to save money. To me, the bats getting in is less remarkable than that if you live in semi-rural

[8:12] Kansas, you can buy a house to save money. They bought this house for like $40,000 or something.

[8:19] At least that was true in 2011 or 2010 or so, when we heard that case. That was one of our

[8:26] original cases. When you mentioned Bat Brothers,

[8:28] I initially assumed you were talking about Mark McGuire and Jose Canseco,

[8:31] but those were the Bash Brothers. Yeah, that's the Bash Brothers.

[8:34] So basically, people either fill out a form on the website, or they send an email to

[8:41] hodgeminutemaximumfund.org. John is actually the one who does the initial pass on that

[8:50] email inbox, right, John? Well, traditionally, that is true.

[8:54] Although I will say that one of Jennifer Marmer's huge responsibilities, and the one that she meets

[9:02] ably every week over and over again, is finding and pre-interviewing the litigants,

[9:07] the potential litigants, before they ever turn their microphones on, so that we know

[9:12] that we're going to have a good and lively and fun conversation. Consequently, we've really never had

[9:19] a dud. But I would say that Jennifer, I've been meaning to ask Jennifer about this for a while,

[9:23] because we're getting litigants through now over the past, I would say six months or so,

[9:28] that I don't ever remember laying eyes on the emails. So she's finding folks that I've never

[9:34] seen, so we've got to give her credit for that. Yeah, she calls people and she probably talks...

[9:40] Randomly. Yeah, random telephone numbers.

[9:42] She's down at the docks ruffling some feathers. She goes to the bathroom, she gets the bat phone

[9:47] book, and she calls people and talks to them. And we're looking for different things. One of

[9:54] the things is just like, are they chilling fun? Are they comfortable talking to her,

[9:58] just because sometimes people might be...

[10:00] too nervous. And also like the nature of the dispute, are there distinctive, interesting

[10:07] things about their dispute that might be fun to talk about? And, you know, other like more

[10:13] subtle things that listeners might not expect. I mean, the dispute has to be real. It has to

[10:20] be a real dispute between the people. But certain types of stakes freak listeners out.

[10:29] So we have to be careful to avoid those. So it is like a, it is a needle that has

[10:34] to be threaded by Jen and John. I don't really participate in this part of the show,

[10:39] which is to find people who actually care about the thing that is the dispute in question.

[10:46] Both of the parties are willing to come on and understand what they're getting themselves into.

[10:52] And also that that conflict is something that is manageable within the tone of the show, right?

[11:01] Yeah, it is a cozy show. I'd be very perturbed if I listened to it and people are

[11:05] genuinely mad at one another. I sometimes like when I'm explaining it to a stranger,

[11:11] like the easy thing to say is, oh, it's like Judge Judy or something, because formatically

[11:15] it is like Judge Judy, right? Then I say, but it's usually between people that love each other.

[11:21] And want to resolve their conflict amicably. And a judge who's interested in not just

[11:27] shouting at the people, but understanding them. I think that's unfair. So that brings up an

[11:33] interesting question. I've always wondered, do you model yourself after a specific TV judge?

[11:39] Or is there a TV judge that you aspire to be like? Or a real life judge that you've appeared before?

[11:45] Yes, thank you.

[11:47] Well, my first and foremost inspiration is Judge Melitta Bullinger,

[11:53] Justice of the Peace in Cold Spring, New York, who married my wife and I.

[11:58] That's cute.

[11:59] I don't remember her at all. I'm really surprised I remember her name. She did a great job.

[12:03] We're legally married, so good job.

[12:06] No complaints.

[12:07] But honestly, there's a bit where I always say, I think I've heard everything I need to make my

[12:13] decision. I'm going to be in my chambers. I'll be back in a moment with my verdict,

[12:17] which is a direct ripoff of Judge Wapner. I remember watching The People's Court as a kid

[12:23] and loving him, just like, yeah, I heard enough, bye. I'm just like, whoop.

[12:28] We have a specific judge hero, right? So like Judge Wapner, whatever, whatever.

[12:33] Our specific judge hero is actually a Judge John Hodgman Listener, who is a real judge,

[12:38] Raquel Montoya Lewis. She is a judge on the Washington State Supreme Court.

[12:44] And when she was appointed to the Washington State Supreme Court,

[12:48] and she is, among other things, the first Native person on the Washington State Supreme Court,

[12:53] one of the first state Supreme Court justices who is a Native person in the entire country,

[12:59] Judge Montoya Lewis sent us an email because we had stopped printing our settled law poster

[13:06] and said, I want one for my chambers. Can you make another one for me? And we said,

[13:12] yes, we can send you the file. You can go down to Kinko's.

[13:18] And we got to meet Judge Montoya Lewis when we did a show in Washington State. She came

[13:22] and actually guested on the show. And it was just, it's totally amazing to think of

[13:28] a real life, and she's incredibly principled and caring justice who really gives a hoot about

[13:38] making the law work for human beings. And it is incredible to think that our weird, dumb show

[13:44] would be something that a person who actually does this for a living treasures, right?

[13:49] Like the idea that a real judge actually likes us is mind-bending. And also that she totally rules.

[13:57] It's not just that she does it for a living, but she went through years of presumably expensive

[14:02] schooling, made a lot of sacrifices, had to break a lot of barriers in the legal profession

[14:09] to get where she is, as opposed to me, which is, I'm just a white guy. I was like, yeah,

[14:12] I'm a judge now. One of the things when I listen to The Flophouse that I always appreciate is,

[14:22] you know, obviously, Dan and Elliot have worked in the entertainment industry for a very long time.

[14:28] And Stu, you went to college with Dan.

[14:33] Credentials. They call them credentials.

[14:37] But like one of the things about The Flophouse is that it really seems to understand a fundamental

[14:43] thing about filmmaking in particular, but the entertainment industry in general,

[14:48] which is that every film, like every notable film is made by 200 or 300 hyper-competent people that,

[15:01] you know, you can't be on a set. Like the times that I've been on a set, the thing that awes me

[15:06] is how good at their job every single person is, because if anyone messes up, it messes everyone

[15:13] else up, right? And that there are all these super competent people working on a film,

[15:19] and sometimes it comes out bad. And that's just the nature of it, because there's so many moving

[15:26] parts. It's so hard to make it come out good. Like if it comes out good, that's just like an

[15:32] extraordinary confluence of skill, good luck, good ideas, whatever, whatever, whatever.

[15:38] And your show is pretty generous about that. Like I feel like it understands this truth that

[15:44] everybody who's worked in the entertainment industry has worked on a lot of bad things,

[15:47] because sometimes it just doesn't work out. Yeah, no one wants to do a bad job.

[15:52] And sometimes you just gotta have work. Like these are people who

[15:56] work for a living, and I think that it kind of frustrates me sometimes that I think people who

[16:02] have had no experience of it, treat it as if every decision is an artistic one, when a lot

[16:09] of the decisions are like, I haven't worked for a while, I need my health insurance or whatever.

[16:14] But I appreciate that you say that. Honestly, I'd do anything to be in a bad movie.

[16:19] Yeah. Yeah.

[16:23] Anytime I hear people come up, like, how could they do that? I remember thinking very vividly

[16:28] in like 2003 or something like that, there was this controversy in comedy nerd internet circles

[16:36] about the hyper principled David Cross being in an Alvin and the Chipmunks sequel.

[16:42] And it was like, if you were offered a part in the Alvin and the Chipmunks movie,

[16:46] would you say no? I would be like, I'll buy my own plane ticket. That sounds great.

[16:52] Sure. What am I? Am I a chipmunk? I'll do it.

[16:55] I would have myself surgically transformed into a chipmunk Tusk style.

[17:00] I'm turning my head backwards and bagging up my pants so that I can be a hip hop chipmunk.

[17:07] I want to mention, by the way, it is the first day of the MaxFunDrive.

[17:11] So if you're a fan of the Flophouse, or you're a fan of Judge John Hodgman, we are supported

[17:17] by your direct support. That is like what makes our work possible. So please go to

[17:22] MaximumFun.org slash join. We want to have a big start to the MaxFunDrive. We've got so much

[17:27] stuff for the next two weeks planned. It's going to be such a great time. John and I are streaming

[17:32] every day. We're doing a live show at the end of the drive that is streaming free to everyone where

[17:38] we're going to settle disputes between MaxFun hosts. It's going to be jam packed with great

[17:43] stuff. And we'll have regular episodes for you during this time as well. But MaximumFun.org

[17:48] slash join is the place to go to become a member of Maximum Fun. And that is your direct support

[17:54] for our show. I think sometimes people are like, oh, why am I supporting Maximum Fun when I want

[18:02] to support my favorite guys? I like that impression. Thank you. I really can't emphasize

[18:09] enough. You are supporting us directly. Maximum Fun supports our work. I'm not the owner of

[18:17] Maximum Fun anymore. I'm a member of the co-op. So I'm technically an owner, but I'm not the owner

[18:22] of Maximum Fun anymore. They support our work. But when you go to MaximumFun.org slash join

[18:29] and join, you are directly supporting the podcasts that you listen to. So please go

[18:35] to MaximumFun.org slash join. Podcasting can be a lonely job, even if you're talking to your

[18:41] friends all the time. It's really true. And not only having the

[18:48] organizational and logistical and producorial support that Maximum Fun offers, it's just a

[18:54] bunch of nice people. It's a collective. You remember how the monkeys all lived in one house?

[19:00] You know what I mean? Well, that's Maximum Fun. There's a fire pole at Maximum Fun HQ.

[19:05] I feel like I've always been drawn to communities and being part of building

[19:11] a community, whether it's by opening neighborhood bars or in my Warhammer hobby.

[19:18] But that was one of the things that I was really blown away at how welcoming the Maximum Fun

[19:24] community was when we joined and how easy it was for us to integrate and get involved with people.

[19:31] And it's just been really cool. It felt like a really easy way for me to get more direct

[19:40] feedback on the show, about the show, which was really cool. And everybody was really thoughtful

[19:46] and welcoming. It's great. Wait, you feel good about getting feedback about the show?

[19:52] I mean, that's the thing. When we started doing the show,

[19:55] it was so long ago. And I feel like I came from

[20:00] West and when I moved to New York, I worked in a hobby store around teenage boys.

[20:05] So I feel like I had a relatively limited world view and one of the things about doing

[20:11] the show was that there was those moments where I realized we would get feedback from

[20:17] listeners that are not teenage boys or men just like me and I was like, oh wow, like

[20:23] there's a whole world out there and everybody was so like kind of gracious and kind with

[20:31] their feedback and it, I don't know, it helped me grow as a person.

[20:38] I've met so many different types of people through doing the show in a way that like

[20:45] really expands my world view in a healthy way, I think, and also helped me learn how

[20:52] to like interact and be gracious with people just in terms of like I'm a neurodivergent

[21:01] guy raised by a neurodivergent brother in part.

[21:05] You know, I've been like kind of a shy guy who is awkward around new people and whose

[21:11] warmth reveals itself slowly and I think that learning how to like be out there in the world

[21:21] and interact with new people who may know me but I don't know them has been very wonderful

[21:29] and healthy for me.

[21:31] Actually, like that suggested a question.

[21:33] I don't know how much time we have but I wanted to ask you guys, your show involves...

[21:38] Well, we're out of time, Dan.

[21:39] Thank you.

[21:40] That's one of those things that happens in podcasts where you just hit a hard post.

[21:44] Now, what was your question?

[21:45] Yeah, I see.

[21:46] I'm getting feedback from Jennifer here.

[21:48] She says, Dan is talking.

[21:50] Wrap it up.

[21:51] Yeah, she's just riding the cough button the whole time.

[21:58] I love talking to our listeners.

[22:03] I would talk to a MaxFun listener any day of the week.

[22:07] I'm so glad when anyone talks to me about the show out in like the real world.

[22:12] However, as I suggested, maybe I'm not like the most natural with strangers and you have

[22:19] a show built around interacting with new people every week.

[22:23] How does one do that?

[22:25] Explain.

[22:26] Well, I mean, I think that obviously we mentioned that Jennifer sort of does the cold calling

[22:33] first.

[22:34] Yeah.

[22:35] So, you know, we feel quite comfortable that the people we're going to meet are fun and

[22:39] interesting and enjoyable but also we feel quite comfortable because they usually tend

[22:45] to be listeners to the show and like your experience, I like the listeners to the show.

[22:51] Like, you know, as someone who has had my mug plastered on various TV shows and small

[22:57] movies and so forth, I always enjoy when someone comes up and goes, loved you in that one scene

[23:02] in Pitch Perfect 2, which happened, by the way, at the Optometrist the other day.

[23:07] Oh, wow.

[23:08] That was exciting.

[23:09] You know what I mean?

[23:10] But I don't want to sit and have a conversation with somebody and I'm not making a promise

[23:14] to MaxFun listeners that I'm going to sit and have a conversation with you every time.

[23:19] But if when someone comes up to me and says, like, I'm a MaxFun member, I'm like, oh, hey,

[23:24] thank you.

[23:25] I think we have something in common here and that we both support this enterprise that

[23:28] we believe in.

[23:29] And also, I admire your taste.

[23:32] And I want to echo something that I think you said, Stu, which is that like meeting

[23:36] all these people both on the podcast and sort of in the world of the listenership has made

[23:41] me a much better person.

[23:43] For sure.

[23:44] I mean, my knowledge of the broader way that people live is so much more enhanced.

[23:54] And my wife, as a whole human being in her own right, was like, you're a much better

[23:56] husband now than you were.

[23:58] Not that I was bad.

[24:00] But the listening and the understanding and the empathy that the litigants show each other

[24:07] and the listeners show to us have really, I mean, if you go back and listen to some

[24:11] of those early episodes, I'm really quite a judgy asshole.

[24:16] And I'm much less so now.

[24:18] I thought that was the comedy premise of the show.

[24:20] Like, I want to be clear, as the guy who thought up John as a judge, I thought it was funny

[24:25] for John to be a judgy asshole on the show and encouraged it for comedy.

[24:31] John's daily show persona was also a little more aggressive.

[24:34] So it made sense, you know, I think sort of he'd done that before where he was bedeviling

[24:40] people.

[24:41] I'll say something that's a real comfort to me is, obviously, unlike you guys, I work

[24:47] in the office at MaxFun.

[24:49] Like I'm there close to every day, right?

[24:54] And I look around at the two dozen-ish people that work there, many of whom I hired, right,

[25:01] when I was still the owner of the company.

[25:04] And when you were still 12 years old and they were babies.

[25:10] I look around at these people, I'm like, I'm so lucky to work with these lovely, wonderful

[25:17] people who work here because they care about touching people's lives.

[25:23] There's not a cynical, you know, let's exploit people person in the entire MaxFun office

[25:30] of dozens of people.

[25:32] I get frustrated about things in my office because I work in an office and I'm a human

[25:37] being.

[25:38] But I also find myself thinking, if I'm frustrated with something or something, whatever, just

[25:44] normal office stuff, I think like, oh, but how great is that person that I'm frustrated

[25:51] with?

[25:52] I love them all, you know?

[25:54] And so I know that is a great comfort to me that I'm part of this group of people who

[26:02] are both the podcasters and the behind-the-scenes people who are so dedicated to making something

[26:09] special to touch people's lives, even if it's something dumb.

[26:12] Jesse, I'm getting word now from our producer, Jennifer Marmer, and an employee owner of

[26:17] MaxMunFun, that we need to wrap it up soon, but she has some pickups for us.

[26:23] It's a little behind-the-scenes, casters-on-casters exclusive.

[26:28] We're going to do some pickups, which is where we go back and we say something again,

[26:34] but better, or maybe answer a question we didn't answer before.

[26:37] Now that our open, bleeding hearts are on display for everyone, we're out of time, so

[26:45] I will, one more time, say please join MaxMunFun, MaxMunFun.org, slash join.

[26:51] Go to MaxMunFun.org and check out all the cool stuff that's happening over the next

[26:54] couple of weeks between April 20th and May 1st for the MaxMunDrive, because we're all

[27:00] doing really cool stuff every day and making special episodes and all kinds of cool stuff,

[27:06] in gratitude to you for supporting us.

[27:08] If you're not yet a supporter or you want to increase your support, go to MaxMunFun.org,

[27:12] slash join.

[27:13] Dan and Stu, thank you for talking with us.

[27:17] We really appreciate it.

[27:19] The name of their podcast is what again?

[27:22] Don't Remember.

[27:23] The Flophouse Podcast, baby.

[27:26] Flophouse Podcast.

[27:28] Get it where you get your podcasts and follow MaxMunFun on YouTube and hit that subscribe

[27:34] and bell and you'll be alerted to all of the fun stuff that we're doing during the MaxMunDrive

[27:39] as well.

[27:40] MaxMunFun.org, slash join.

[27:42] What a pleasure to hang out with my friends, our friends.

[27:45] And I want to thank you guys for kind of taking the reins and hosting this, and John and Jesse,

[27:50] what is your show?

[27:52] Again, Don't Remember.

[27:54] Jesse and I co-created and co-host the Judge John Hodgman Podcast, available every Wednesday

[27:59] on MaxMunFun and full video episodes are available on YouTube at Judge John Hodgman Pod, where

[28:05] all of our live streaming will be happening as well.

[28:08] Hit that subscribe and like button, but most important, today is the first day of the MaxMunDrive.

[28:12] You've heard what it means to us as podcasters, what you mean to us as podcasters.

[28:18] If you're not already a member, I hope you will now go to MaxMunFun.org, slash join right

[28:23] now and become a member, or if you're already a member and you're able to, you can boost

[28:28] or upgrade your membership.

[28:30] Every little bit helps to literally keep the lights on and support us and keep us going.

[28:35] If it weren't for you, we'd have to stop.

[28:37] So thank you.

[28:38] MaxMunFun.org, slash join.

[28:39] Dan, it's two things for being our friend.

[28:41] We love you guys.

[28:42] Oh, thanks.

[28:43] We love you guys.

[28:48] MaxMunFun, a worker-owned network of artist-owned shows supported directly by you.

Casters on Casters: John Hodgman, Dan McCoy, Jesse Thorn, and Stuart Wellington

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