The Flop House: Episode 4 - The Number 23

Dan McCoy

[0:00] In this episode of the Flophouse, we review the number 23, the scariest of all the base 10 integers.

[0:07] And now, the special Halloween remix of the Flophouse theme.

Stuart Wellington

[0:12] When I was working in my laboratory, two skeletons came in, and a mummy was also dancing.

[0:18] Later on, vampires came in, and the vampires had a friend, and it was this creature from the Black Lagoon.

[0:24] And there were other Frankensteins there, and one of them was a serial killer.

[0:30] Is that enough?

Dan McCoy

[0:34] I guess.

[0:37] Wikipedia has this to say about the number 23.

[0:42] Walter Sparrow, Jim Carrey, is an animal control officer married to a cake shop owner, Agatha, Virginia Madsen.

[0:49] They have a son, Robin.

[0:50] The film opens with Walter narrating the events of his recent birthday.

[0:54] He begins by describing how he received a call to catch a dog named Ned.

[0:58] Walter is late meeting his wife, and she enters a bookstore where she leafs through the book called The Number 23 by Topsy Kretz.

[1:07] When Walter arrives, Agatha announces that she is going to buy the book for him for his birthday.

[1:13] Walter starts reading the book, finding odd similarities between himself and the main character, a detective known as Fingerling.

[1:20] The book details Fingerling's meeting with the suicide blonde, whose obsession with the number 23 drives her to murder her boyfriend and commit suicide.

[1:29] The viewer sees Walter as the main character in this novel, while the real Walter becomes obsessed with the 23 phenomenon.

[1:37] Walter visits Dr. Isaac French, Danny Houston, a friend of Agatha's, whom he hopes will be able to explain what's happening.

[1:52] As Walter is drawn ever deeper into Fingerling's story, he begins to suspect Dr. French has romantic designs on Agatha in parallel with events in the book.

[2:01] His paranoia makes him dream of killing Agatha, after which he drives off in the middle of the night, winding up in the King Edward Hotel and requests Room 23.

[2:09] The book stops on Chapter 22, with Fingerling on a balcony, trying to decide whether or not to jump after murdering his lover, Fabrizia.

[2:17] Walter sees Ned the dog again and follows him to the grave of Laura Tollins, who died on her 23rd birthday.

[2:23] Her body's still missing.

[2:25] Walter looks into her death and discovers Laura was sleeping with her professor, like Fabrizia, in the book.

[2:29] Walter thinks the professor wrote the book as a confession and visits him in jail, but he proclaims his innocence.

[2:35] Eventually, Robin and Walter discover that every 23rd word on every 23rd page spells out two messages.

[2:42] Visit Casanova Spark.

[2:44] Dig beneath the steps to heaven.

[2:46] The other, I warn you, hell is waiting, Sparrow Man.

[2:49] This leads them to Casanova's Park, later that night, where they discover Laura Tollins' skeleton,

[2:55] but when they return with a police officer, the bones have disappeared.

[2:58] Agatha arrives with Dr. French, and with dirty hands, which arouses Walter's suspicions.

[3:03] Walter confronts her about taking the bones and accuses her of writing the book.

[3:08] She admits to moving the skeleton to protect him, but that, in fact, he wrote the book.

[3:12] He returns to the hotel room, where he tears down the wallpaper and finds chapter 23 of the book,

[3:17] identifying himself as the author and declaring it his confession.

[3:21] Walter then remembers his father killed himself, and his suicide note was pages of things that added up to the number 23.

[3:27] Walter loved Laura Tollins as a college student, but she eventually began sleeping with her professor,

[3:31] and when Walter confronted her, she declared that she never loved him.

[3:35] He went into a rage, stabbing her, then burying her in the park.

[3:39] Walter then went to the hotel room, wrote the book, and jumped off the balcony.

[3:43] He survived with severe injuries and trauma, but ended up in the institute where his therapist,

[3:48] another 23 fanatic, published Walter's note as a book.

[3:51] Walter suffered memory loss, forgetting his crime, and, upon leaving the institute, he met his wife, Agatha.

[3:58] Ultimately, Walter turns himself in, freeing the professor, and relieving his conscience.

[4:02] Though entering prison, Walter Sparrow seemed optimistic about himself and his family's future,

[4:07] having taught his son about justice.

[4:09] And now we join the others in the Flophouse.

[4:12] Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the Flophouse.

[4:15] My name is Dan McCoy.

S2

[4:16] I'm Simon Fisher.

[4:17] And Stuart Wellington.

Dan McCoy

[4:19] So tonight we watched the number 23, and I have to ask you, the number 23.

[4:24] Scariest number ever?

S2

[4:26] It is.

[4:27] What I don't understand is, um, the number 23?

[4:30] Did they really have to put the number for it?

[4:32] Like, was 23 already copyrighted?

[4:35] It might have been.

[4:36] It actually might have been.

[4:37] As opposed to just telling us, it's 23.

[4:37] But like a mathematician?

[4:39] Maybe?

[4:40] Oh yeah, they didn't want people to confuse it like it's like a prequel movie to the popular

[4:45] series 24?

[4:46] Yes.

[4:47] I think that's mainly it.

Dan McCoy

[4:47] You know, like, my problem with this, the idea of a number as an antagonist.

[4:51] It's like the movie Twister, where they're like, you know what, the villain in this movie

[4:55] is weather.

[4:56] Bad weather.

[4:58] You know what I hate?

S2

[4:59] Jerk tornadoes.

[5:00] Those jerks are real dicks.

[5:02] It's just a safe bet, you know, because you know the audience is automatically going

[5:06] to side against numbers.

[5:08] There's probably not going to be any numbers sympathizers out there that are like, I think

Stuart Wellington

[5:11] the number 23 was really misportrayed in it.

Dan McCoy

[5:14] When Jim Carrey starts going crazy and seeing 23 everywhere, to me...

[5:18] Which happens like 15 minutes into the movie.

Stuart Wellington

[5:20] And not only that, but continues to happen throughout the entire movie.

[5:25] Even by the end, we are all of us still freaked out by the number 23.

Dan McCoy

[5:29] And to me, that's like math of magic.

[5:31] That's literally the lowest form of magic.

Stuart Wellington

[5:36] Even when I was...

[5:37] Other magicians beat up mathematicians.

[5:39] You know why?

[5:40] Because square one was a bullshit show.

[5:42] That's a fact.

[5:43] Everyone knows.

Dan McCoy

[5:43] I just gotta say, even when I was a kid, hey, you're thinking of a number.

[5:48] If you give me another number and I add five to it...

Stuart Wellington

[5:52] I'm like, you divided by seven and is this your number?

[5:55] And you're like, what?

[5:57] Oh my god.

[5:58] If you go through all these, like, hoops.

Dan McCoy

[6:01] That have been dictated to me by you, the magician.

[6:05] You'll come up with a number.

Stuart Wellington

[6:06] That is totally amazing.

[6:08] Well, it's math magic, dude.

[6:10] I don't know if you knew this, but numbers are magic.

[6:12] Oh.

[6:13] Well, for instance, the number 23 is the murderer's number.

S2

[6:16] You know, the thing...

[6:17] I think we're really missing a key point, guys, in that it's the fucking numbers of math.

[6:22] Kind of fucking boring.

[6:24] Well, that's...

[6:25] The director and the fucking screenwriter who I have serious issues with.

Stuart Wellington

[6:30] Okay, well, I don't think that we can really talk about the top-notch screenwriting in this movie

[6:35] without talking about what our favorite character's name was from the movie.

[6:40] Stu, favorite character's name from the movie?

S2

[6:42] Oh my god.

[6:43] Was it the Widow Dobkins?

[6:45] That's a pretty good one.

[6:46] No, it was actually Dr. Sirius Leary, PhD.

Dan McCoy

[6:50] Yeah.

S2

[6:51] Who's name is Sirius?

[6:53] A psychiatrist.

Dan McCoy

[6:55] Sirius Black from the popular Harry Potter series is the only other Sirius I can think of.

[7:00] Another fictional character.

Stuart Wellington

[7:03] Not like, I don't know, my best friend in second grade, Sirius Johnson.

S2

[7:08] I don't know if this is...

[7:09] Sirius Satellite Johnson.

[7:10] I don't actually interact with that many doctors, but is it like a requirement that they say

[7:16] Dr. Sirius Leary, in this case, Dr. Sirius Leary, PhD?

[7:21] Like, it almost seems like they're rubbing it in my face.

Dan McCoy

[7:23] I'm tempted to go with our hero's name, but the name of the writer of the number 23,

[7:29] not the script for the hit movie, sorry Jim Carrey.

[7:33] The hit movie 23.

[7:34] The number 23, excuse me.

[7:35] But the novel within the hit movie, the number 23, which is also I think called the number 23.

[7:40] It is.

[7:41] It is called.

[7:42] The author of that book is Topsy Kretz.

[7:46] Topsy Kretz, ladies and gentlemen.

Stuart Wellington

[7:48] Topsy Kretz.

Dan McCoy

[7:50] I think there's a double meaning there.

Stuart Wellington

[7:52] My favorite character name was Jim Carrey's character.

[7:56] His son's name was Robin Sparrow.

[8:00] Right.

S2

[8:01] Robin Bird Eagle Sparrow.

[8:03] And then he had the same haircut as his son.

[8:06] That was a weird decision.

[8:08] Dan.

[8:09] Way to go, Dan.

Dan McCoy

[8:12] I think the point is that they had a lot in common.

[8:16] Yep.

[8:16] Father and Simon.

[8:16] Sure they did.

[8:17] Including hair.

Stuart Wellington

[8:17] Yep.

[8:18] One of the things they shared in common was a love of a specific hairstyle.

Dan McCoy

[8:22] You know what number occurs more than 23?

[8:27] One.

[8:28] That's a number that occurs a lot.

Stuart Wellington

[8:29] Hey, better watch out for that number.

[8:31] It's a real spooky number.

[8:32] There's no movie about how creepy it is that the number one is all over the place.

[8:36] Yeah.

[8:36] That is true.

S2

[8:38] Jesus.

[8:39] I want to talk about something today, guys.

[8:42] And that's the fact that this is the second movie in a row we've watched as a group where

[8:47] there was literally no bad guy.

[8:50] At least memory had a really scary bad guy.

Stuart Wellington

[8:52] Remember in the old days when movies had antagonists?

[8:58] Okay.

[8:58] And you had your main character and they were beset upon by a person or an organization.

[9:04] Less like a concept or like a really bad thing that was just sort of going on around them.

[9:09] A free-floating phenomenon.

[9:10] Right.

Dan McCoy

[9:11] Like 23-ism.

[9:13] Sure, yep.

[9:14] Numerology is terrifying.

[9:15] I just want to throw that out there.

[9:17] Let's be clear.

[9:18] The idea.

Stuart Wellington

[9:18] That's why in all of Math Magic, 23ology is known as the dark arts, the black arts.

[9:24] Sure.

[9:25] No one should ever fuck around with that scary-ass number magic.

Dan McCoy

[9:28] You know, I think the thing is like if this was a better movie, we would all be admiring

[9:32] it for the fact like, you know what was really cool about that movie?

[9:36] There was no antagonist.

Stuart Wellington

[9:38] Like wouldn't that, isn't that, wasn't that kind of like interesting?

Dan McCoy

[9:40] The antagonist came from within.

Stuart Wellington

[9:43] That sounds like me, actually.

[9:45] I would say that.

[9:46] The antagonist is within the movie.

Dan McCoy

[9:48] But it was a failure on storytelling terms.

Stuart Wellington

[9:53] Well, let's, let's, how many levels did the movie fail on, Dan?

Dan McCoy

[9:57] Well, there was the initial level and then...

Stuart Wellington

[10:00] The surface level, let's call it.

Dan McCoy

[10:01] Well, alright.

[10:02] This is one of those movies where there are two stories, basically.

[10:05] What we'll call like the primary story.

[10:07] What's going on in, quote, real life.

[10:09] Sure.

[10:10] Where Jim Carrey is slowly descending into madness with Virginia Madsen, his wife, and

[10:16] his son.

[10:16] There's the second level, which is the stuff that happens in the novel, the number 23, which

[10:21] Jim Carrey is reading.

[10:23] The problem in basically literally every movie I've seen where there's a secondary level of

[10:29] fiction going on.

[10:30] Sure.

[10:30] Like we see a movie or we see a novel.

S2

[10:33] Where the characters in the movie are watching a movie.

[10:35] Right.

[10:35] And this is the movie.

[10:36] Right.

[10:36] And it's greatly affecting them.

Dan McCoy

[10:38] The problem is, every time what they're watching is the biggest piece of shit.

[10:45] Like it's...

[10:46] The biggest like cliche-ridden piece of genre crap.

[10:50] Maybe the problem is, it's hard enough to write like a compelling screenplay on one level.

[10:55] So also like, I have to like, oh shit, I now have to write like a compelling sub-screenplay.

[10:59] Right, right.

Stuart Wellington

[11:00] The idea that like you spend all this time and effort and you're working on this thing that

[11:04] you're really, really proud of.

[11:05] I think it's really great.

[11:06] And then you go on to write another equally amazing piece that lives within the first piece.

[11:12] It's either that or maybe it's fear that like the stupid little like story inside your

[11:17] story will end up being a lot better than the larger story.

[11:21] So you kind of want to dumb it down a little bit.

S2

[11:23] It's kind of...

[11:23] To me, it makes me think of the movie Good Will Hunting.

[11:26] It's anytime they try and say somebody's like really smart or somebody's like really good

[11:31] at something or like something is really amazing within the...

Dan McCoy

[11:34] It's uh...

[11:36] Like fucking Studio 60 recently with like a lot of shit for like...

[11:41] That's slightly more contemporary.

[11:42] Oh, we gotta set up these guys as really good sketch comedy writers.

[11:45] Oh, but then we gotta show the sketches and they're basically some...

[11:49] Yeah.

[11:49] ...Saturnite...

[11:50] Arguably not that good of a sketch.

Stuart Wellington

[11:52] Yeah.

[11:52] No, I think your point was that you've created a fictional world in which these characters

[11:57] all really like this book that you, the viewer, are also getting to enjoy and it is really

[12:02] bad.

[12:02] And there's no reason why any character should enjoy it because it's bad.

Dan McCoy

[12:05] And I also think that they feel this compulsion to be like, you know what, we have to downgrade

[12:11] it.

[12:11] Like, I'm writing this really awesome screenplay to indicate to the viewer that within the screenplay

[12:17] what you're seeing is fiction.

[12:19] I have to make it slightly crappier.

Stuart Wellington

[12:20] Like, I have to make it more like symbolic of literature.

[12:24] Like that dame had a shitload of gams on her.

[12:27] Well, I think...

[12:27] I mean, we do have...

[12:28] Like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[12:29] Who wrote that?

S2

[12:30] Her gams just wouldn't quit.

[12:31] We do have to talk about, like, the book, the number 23, within the movie a little bit.

[12:37] I think that's kind of like a crux of a lot of my problems.

Stuart Wellington

[12:40] Parallel to talking about the book, the 23, let's also talk about the way, the voice in

[12:44] which Jim Carrey read the book 23.

[12:45] Yeah, precisely.

S2

[12:47] Because Jim Carrey has a normal voice normally when he talks.

[12:51] Sure.

[12:51] He's reading lines and he's speaking in a normal...

[12:53] His normal Jim Carrey voice.

[12:54] Like, he's a regular human being.

[12:55] Sure.

[12:56] And Simon, his character is his, like, mind voice.

[13:01] Sure.

[13:01] Of him reading the book.

[13:02] You know, like, when you read a book yourself.

[13:04] Right.

[13:05] You know, viewers at home or whatever.

[13:06] And you're reading a book, you obviously do it in kind of stupid voice.

[13:10] Right.

[13:10] You know what?

[13:11] Jim Carrey does the same thing in the movie, the number 23.

[13:13] That's something we all want.

[13:14] That's all.

Stuart Wellington

[13:15] That's something we all have in common.

[13:16] Everyone does that.

[13:18] Like, yeah.

[13:19] And then I...

[13:20] And then this weird thing happened.

Dan McCoy

[13:22] Basically, like, what happens is Jim Carrey starts reading this book and he starts finding

[13:26] all these vague parallels.

[13:28] Extremely vague parallels.

[13:29] Between his life and the life of the book.

[13:33] I think extremely vague is the right word for it.

[13:35] The character in the book is this sort of, like, sub Raymond Chandler detective character

Stuart Wellington

[13:41] who...

[13:42] Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[13:43] John Cheever?

[13:44] No, no.

[13:44] Is that what you said?

[13:45] Not John Cheever.

[13:46] Did you just say John Cheever?

Dan McCoy

[13:47] No, I don't think I did.

[13:47] I don't think he's...

[13:48] He's a character like drinking martinis in, like, New England.

Stuart Wellington

[13:52] Well...

[13:52] We'll play back the recording later.

[13:54] We'll see.

[13:54] I think he said John Cheever.

Dan McCoy

[13:56] This saxophone playing...

Stuart Wellington

[13:58] A character who, by the way, at no point in the movie, plays the saxophone.

Dan McCoy

[14:02] Never actually plays the saxophone.

[14:04] He holds the saxophone as if he might play it at any moment.

Stuart Wellington

[14:08] What he does is he leans against a window ledge in a wife beater while the rain is coming

[14:12] down outside with the saxophone slung loosely across his chest.

[14:16] Yeah.

[14:17] Remember that?

[14:18] Remember?

Dan McCoy

[14:19] Yeah, we were all...

[14:19] I'm taking you back there, too.

[14:20] No, I remember.

[14:21] I remember how we were all hoping that at any moment he might start playing the saxophone

[14:24] and it never came.

[14:25] Yep.

Stuart Wellington

[14:26] From Baker Street.

[14:27] The Jay Rafferty song.

[14:28] Yeah, of course.

[14:29] The saxophone riff.

S2

[14:30] That's a really good song.

Stuart Wellington

[14:31] The most famous saxophone riff in all of right now.

S2

[14:33] And the character in the book calls himself Fingerling.

[14:39] I can't divorce from the concept of finger banging somebody.

[14:43] Right, it's fingering.

Stuart Wellington

[14:44] Like, hi, it's me, Detective Fingering.

[14:46] Man who enjoys fingering.

[14:48] Like, excuse me?

[14:48] Excuse me?

[14:49] Like, what?

[14:50] I'm Detective Fingering.

Dan McCoy

[14:52] I've named myself after the sexual activity I most enjoy.

[14:56] Fingering.

Stuart Wellington

[14:57] I really like a good fingering.

S2

[14:58] The most satisfying act in all of the world.

Stuart Wellington

[15:00] Yeah, in the entire, in my entire arsenal of lovemaking, finger banging, most effective

S2

[15:06] tool.

[15:07] Now, the thing about it is that this book is actually, turns out to have been written

[15:11] by Jim Carrey back when he was.

[15:13] Yeah, let's say.

[15:13] No, you're spoiling the whole movie.

[15:14] Spoiler alert.

[15:15] Yeah, totally.

Stuart Wellington

[15:17] Holy shit, the twist is real.

[15:18] No, but we have to discuss the twist.

[15:20] I have to.

[15:21] No, no, no, because now that the cat's out of the bag, it's once again, now I don't

[15:24] know if I've mentioned this in previous casts.

[15:28] I really hate movies that have twists in them.

[15:31] I really don't like it.

[15:32] Well.

[15:32] Where it turns out that the main character was the killer the whole time.

[15:36] Let's.

[15:36] Or the other person was the killer.

[15:39] Or the friend that you never knew was the killer.

[15:41] Let's, let's.

[15:41] There were ghosts all the time.

[15:43] Everyone was always a ghost.

[15:46] It's, it's, it's what they've done is they've taken, eh, maybe like C plus, B minus quality

[15:51] Twilight Zone episodes and like, hey, let's just have movies all be like that now.

[15:56] Wouldn't that be weird if that happened?

[15:57] But let's.

[15:58] Like the twist.

[15:59] Every movie's like that.

[16:00] That's the twist.

[16:01] All movies have a twist.

Dan McCoy

[16:03] Let's be clearer though.

[16:04] Because I mean like there are good twist endings.

Stuart Wellington

[16:06] Go.

[16:07] Name them.

[16:07] Shoot.

[16:08] Name five of them.

[16:09] Right now.

[16:09] Don't think about it.

[16:10] Name five movies with a good twist ending.

[16:12] I'm not going to name five of them.

[16:13] Go.

[16:13] No.

[16:13] You'll name five of them, Dan.

[16:14] Name two of them.

[16:15] Memory.

[16:16] Okay.

[16:17] That's one.

[16:18] Stewart.

[16:18] Good call.

[16:19] Dan.

[16:20] Stewart just threw you an alley-oop.

Dan McCoy

[16:21] I'm going to name two and they're both Christopher Nolan movies.

[16:24] Okay.

[16:24] I liked Memento and I liked the twist and the prestige.

Stuart Wellington

[16:28] And I'll tell you what.

[16:29] Okay.

[16:29] In both.

[16:29] That's two.

[16:30] In both.

[16:31] From the same guy.

Dan McCoy

[16:32] In both of those movies though.

[16:32] I don't know if that counts as two.

[16:34] The point is in both of those movies the twist enriches your like view of the rest of

[16:39] the movie.

[16:39] In both of those movies the twist is semi surprising.

[16:42] I mean you may or may not have seen it coming.

[16:45] But it is a twist.

[16:46] And then if you look back over the rest of the movie you're like oh I get it.

[16:49] That like casts the rest of the movie in a different light.

[16:52] However that light is still logical.

[16:54] Sure.

[16:54] That light makes sense.

[16:55] That's fair.

[16:56] Once again.

[16:56] Whereas in this movie it doesn't make any sense what's going on.

[16:59] Like at the end we discover oh wait a minute.

[17:02] Jim Carrey was a crazy person who killed a girl.

[17:06] Then went to a hotel to write a long suicide note that was then turned into the hit novel

[17:12] the number 23.

[17:13] Which was published by his psychologist.

Stuart Wellington

[17:17] Serious Leroy.

[17:18] While he was.

[17:19] Dr. Serious Leroy PhD.

[17:22] Who then went on to publish his novel in a vanity publishing.

[17:25] Yes.

[17:26] Ended up at a used bookstore where his wife Virginia Madsen found it.

[17:30] Yeah.

[17:30] I bought it.

[17:31] Read it.

[17:31] And then recommended it to Jim Carrey to read.

[17:34] Oh holy shit.

[17:35] What a nightmare that in turn.

S2

[17:37] The thing is I don't know if you understand this but the only reason he actually was able

[17:42] to read the book was because he got attacked by a magical dog.

[17:47] You mean the dog Ned right?

[17:48] Yeah.

[17:48] The magical bulldog that bit his arm and was kind of like a guardian.

[17:52] Um.

[17:53] I'm just going to.

[17:53] A guardian of the dead I think.

Stuart Wellington

[17:54] I don't know if you remember this dude but if you add up the numeric where the letters

[18:00] fall the name Ned adds up to 23.

S2

[18:03] Holy shit.

Stuart Wellington

[18:05] And that's.

[18:06] Do you think that was intentional?

[18:07] No.

[18:07] That was a happy coincidence.

Dan McCoy

[18:09] First Jim Carrey gets released from say Arkham Asylum.

[18:13] Yes.

[18:13] Let's just call it Arkham Asylum for sake of Arkham.

[18:15] Then literally on his way out of the asylum he bumps into Virginia Madsen who I think is

[18:20] like carrying some sort of cake.

[18:22] Yeah.

[18:22] It looks like she's carrying a cake.

[18:23] An ice cream cake I think.

[18:25] They end up getting married.

[18:26] Sure.

[18:26] And then later on.

[18:27] They go on to have a son named Robin.

[18:28] On Jim Carrey's 23rd plus 23rd birthday maybe.

[18:32] I don't know what it is.

Stuart Wellington

[18:33] I think it was his 32nd birthday which is of course 23 back.

Dan McCoy

[18:36] She hands him the book that he happened to write.

S2

[18:39] To tell you the truth.

[18:40] We were talking earlier about how I'm in a number of different works of fiction.

[18:43] They have a tendency to throw in an additional work of fiction which seems to capture the

[18:48] main character's like mind and soul.

[18:51] And Jim Carrey's character not only does it take him forever to read the smallest book

[18:56] I've ever seen.

[18:57] It looks like somebody's notebook with the number 23 sloppily pasted on it.

Dan McCoy

[19:02] Virginia Madsen's character reads this book I guess in the course of an evening.

[19:06] Sure.

[19:07] And then she hands it to Jim Carrey's character.

[19:08] A lazy afternoon she reads it.

[19:10] Who reads it basically at the pace that the screenplay requires him to have read it.

[19:16] Right.

[19:17] Which is tremendously slow.

[19:19] He can't read it faster than plot developments would dictate.

[19:23] He's reading what's...

Stuart Wellington

[19:23] Otherwise we'd be watching the movie and fast forward.

Dan McCoy

[19:26] Yeah.

[19:26] What looks like a 200 page book he reads over the course of I guess a week.

[19:30] Even though he's theoretically obsessed with this book.

[19:33] And he's reading it constantly.

S2

[19:36] One would theorize that in addition to reading the book he supplements it with maybe browsing

[19:41] websites.

Stuart Wellington

[19:42] Let me point out a subtle detail you might have missed.

[19:44] When Virginia Madsen gives him the book 23 he has a very unusual reaction.

[19:50] He's like books huh?

[19:52] What's so fucking great about books?

[19:54] Almost as though he's never read a book before.

[19:56] So it's possible that he is I don't want to say like functionally like illiterate but maybe

[20:01] he's just a real slow reader.

[20:03] He needs a nice softball pitch.

[20:05] So when he reads he's like and then one time the number 23 with his fingers tracing out

[20:11] each word.

[20:12] Maybe.

[20:12] That's very possible.

S2

[20:14] I originally brought this point up because this is actually me supporting the movie the

[20:18] number 23.

[20:18] Really?

[20:19] In all these other like movies and stuff they have like a work of fiction which captures

[20:23] the main character's interest.

[20:25] And this one at least it makes sense to some extent because he wrote the fucking thing.

[20:30] Right.

Stuart Wellington

[20:30] So of course he thinks it's cool.

[20:31] Sure.

[20:32] He's like oh my god that was really smart.

S2

[20:34] Like man this is a really good compelling book.

[20:37] It makes a lot more sense that if say some actual other human being wrote a newspaper.

[20:42] Just some jerk wrote this fucking stupid ass book.

[20:44] Because at that point that would just make me think he has no taste.

Dan McCoy

[20:48] I can't sympathize with our lead character anymore because clearly his literary taste is for

[20:53] the birds.

[20:53] His foretaste in literature.

S2

[20:54] Yep.

[20:54] It's for the birds and he reads slowly borderline retarded.

[20:57] That's what his dog catcher's license says I bet.

Dan McCoy

[21:00] Yeah.

[21:00] Let's take a moment.

[21:02] That's a pretty whimsical job huh?

[21:04] Dog catcher.

Stuart Wellington

[21:05] He's a professional dog catcher.

[21:06] That's a whimsical job.

[21:07] Are there professional dog catchers anymore?

[21:10] Whose whole job is just to like hang out and like drive around town and be constantly

[21:15] in radio contact with a switchboard?

[21:17] To see if there's a stray dog sighting.

Dan McCoy

[21:19] I think to be fair he works for animal control.

Stuart Wellington

[21:23] He doesn't have any paperwork to go out.

[21:25] Any like veterinary work to perform.

[21:27] He's exclusively a dog catcher with a tranquilizer dart shotgun.

[21:31] Yeah.

[21:33] It is odd.

S2

[21:35] You know going back Dan I think we should analyze since there were literally three characters

[21:40] in the movie.

[21:41] Why don't we analyze the performances of our three leagues?

[21:43] Alright let's do that before we do it.

[21:44] You want to start with Jim Carrey Dan?

Dan McCoy

[21:46] Alright Jim Carrey I have to say the number 23 I guess was presented as a potential Jim Carrey

Stuart Wellington

[21:51] comeback vehicle.

[21:52] Which again as we were discussing is really weird.

Dan McCoy

[21:54] Yeah it's not like Jim Carrey has had like this like string of like super flops.

Stuart Wellington

[22:00] Right.

[22:00] Or like oh for Christ's sake Jim Carrey what did he make a movie like 1992?

[22:06] Who did that douchebag ever?

Dan McCoy

[22:08] He made that fun with Dick and Jane which like.

[22:10] Yeah like you very recently.

[22:12] Yeah people didn't see it but you know recent film people didn't see it.

[22:15] It was a major theatrical release.

[22:16] He made Eternal Sonet of the Spotless Mind I guess.

[22:19] Which was critically received.

[22:20] Critically acclaimed.

[22:21] I thought that he did a good job in what was a really good movie.

Stuart Wellington

[22:24] Sure I mean in any case the point being here that this is not a la like John Travolta

[22:29] in Pulp Fiction.

[22:31] Where you're like holy shit this guy hasn't been in movies in a really long time and now

[22:33] he's in this very unusual different kind of role.

[22:36] But the thing is with this movie I don't know if I was.

[22:38] It was just the movie he made this year.

[22:40] Like it was this year's movie.

[22:41] And last year he made a different movie and the year before that a different movie.

Dan McCoy

[22:44] However saying that if I was going to cast a movie about a guy's slow descent into madness.

[22:52] Like a potential like a time bomb of a killer.

Stuart Wellington

[22:55] Like someone really tightly wound.

Dan McCoy

[22:57] I would not pick Jim Carrey.

Stuart Wellington

[22:59] However if you did pick Jim Carrey would you shoot a lot of weird erotic sexual scenes

[23:04] that feature Jim Carrey for a sex appeal?

Dan McCoy

[23:06] I would and I would have him cradle a saxophone.

Stuart Wellington

[23:11] Like any goddamn second I'll start blowing on this fucker.

S2

[23:16] Like a year or two ago Christian Bale was offered the machinist and the number 23 and he's like

[23:23] well fuck fuck the number 23.

[23:26] And he managed to like hand it off.

[23:28] So when Jim Carrey just happened to walk by the trash can and he's like number 23 what's

[23:33] this all about?

[23:33] And he's like holy shit I wrote this one day.

Stuart Wellington

[23:35] Like oh my god this is the screenplay I wrote all those years ago when I was crazy.

S2

[23:39] 23 years ago.

Dan McCoy

[23:42] I like to imagine that's actually what happened.

[23:45] Yeah.

S2

[23:46] Now um.

[23:47] Virginia Madsen.

[23:48] I gotta admit I think she's kind of hot.

Stuart Wellington

[23:50] Yeah okay.

[23:52] I mean I can see it.

[23:53] Her presence in this movie was almost like like a not presence like a cardboard stand up.

[23:59] Like someone who was there to deliver important lines.

[24:00] She had that really good line where she was like.

[24:02] Plot lines.

[24:03] Oh yeah holy shit.

[24:04] Well do we want to talk about that yet or do we want to save it till later?

Dan McCoy

[24:07] No no tell me.

Stuart Wellington

[24:08] The really good line.

[24:09] The best line in the movie.

S2

[24:10] I may have forgotten it already.

[24:11] No way.

[24:12] There's no way you could have forgotten that.

[24:13] The one where she tells Jim Carrey to kill her in front of all of his beautiful 23s.

Stuart Wellington

[24:17] So there's been 23s the whole goddamn movie and Jim Carrey's freaking out like I just

[24:22] discovered I was a murderer.

[24:23] I murdered someone.

[24:24] I can't believe it.

[24:24] I don't even know who I am anymore.

[24:26] And she's like you're not a murderer.

[24:27] You're not a murderer.

[24:28] You're my husband.

[24:29] I know you.

[24:29] He's like no you don't know me.

[24:31] And she's like well then kill me right now.

[24:33] And he's like no I can't.

[24:34] He's like kill me right now in front of all of these beautiful 23s.

[24:40] And Dan left just like that because it was a really good line.

[24:44] It was.

[24:45] You know what someone wrote that line.

[24:47] Sure.

[24:47] Someone was sitting down in front of an old timey ass typewriter and they were like

[24:51] Oh yeah.

Dan McCoy

[24:53] He sat back.

[24:55] Took a sip of his martini.

Stuart Wellington

[24:57] Lit another cigar.

Dan McCoy

[24:58] He said it's money in the bank.

Stuart Wellington

[25:02] He's like this shit is gold.

[25:04] Solid movie gold.

S2

[25:06] He called up his broker and he's like yeah just put it all on number 23.

Stuart Wellington

[25:11] Wait wait wait wait.

[25:12] His broker or like a roulette deal?

S2

[25:17] 23 is a publicly traded number.

Stuart Wellington

[25:19] The publicly traded account 23.

[25:21] 23.

S2

[25:22] Well the thing is he risked it all because he realized so much money was coming in.

[25:26] Sure.

[25:26] Even though to put it all on 23 is obviously no risk.

Stuart Wellington

[25:29] Um I have a new system for when I go gambling.

[25:31] Huh.

[25:32] It involves 23.

[25:33] Always hoping for a 23 somehow.

S2

[25:35] Now that you've revealed your secret.

[25:37] Now that you've revealed your secret.

Stuart Wellington

[25:37] Everyone's going to cash in and gambling will disappear as a phenomenon.

Dan McCoy

[25:42] Basically Virginia Mads could have been played by anyone who was like this role is called wife.

[25:47] Right.

Stuart Wellington

[25:48] Your job is to read the important plot lines.

S2

[25:51] I think one of the weirdest things about this movie focusing on the wife where for literally

[25:56] about five minutes the audience kind of thinks that the wife is the killer.

[26:00] Right.

[26:01] For like five minutes maybe.

[26:03] Sure.

[26:03] And then they're like actually that's just bullshit.

[26:06] Jim Carrey was the killer.

[26:08] And they even went so far as to have like weird flashback moments where she was like this

[26:12] book could have been written by a woman.

[26:14] Woman.

Stuart Wellington

[26:14] Where it's like you keep seeing like her face like this book was written by a woman.

[26:18] The number 23 is my favorite number.

[26:20] I am the killer.

[26:21] This book was written by a woman.

[26:23] The number 23 is my favorite number.

S2

[26:24] I was the killer.

[26:25] Someday I'd like to write a book to totally mess with somebody's mind.

[26:29] Mind.

[26:30] Mind.

Stuart Wellington

[26:31] Well remember though the first twist was that at first you're watching a movie that's like

[26:35] oh wow Jim Carrey's reading this weird book that's making him want to kill his wife.

[26:40] Okay.

[26:41] Wait a minute.

[26:41] It actually doesn't make me want to do that.

[26:43] In fact it just makes me want to figure out who wrote this book.

[26:47] Wait a minute.

[26:47] This book was written about someone who was really murdered.

[26:50] Who was the murderer?

[26:51] Was it my wife?

[26:52] No.

[26:53] I was the murderer.

[26:54] But I'm not actually a murderer.

[26:55] Now the best part is that first part the whole descent into madness.

[26:58] Because we keep talking about descent into madness.

[27:00] That is literally only like the first I don't know what like 35 minutes of the movie and

[27:05] then it becomes a different movie.

Dan McCoy

[27:07] Now was Virginia Madsen topless in the movie?

[27:10] Who was topless in this movie?

S2

[27:11] I think it was a body double.

[27:12] I think it was a body double as well.

[27:14] Because I think the girl I think it was the girl that he eventually killed.

Dan McCoy

[27:18] I ask this because we have to make it clear that we watched the unrated version.

[27:22] We did.

Stuart Wellington

[27:22] We did not watch the theatrical release.

[27:24] We watched it later.

Dan McCoy

[27:25] We had two options on the DVD and we opted to watch the unrated version.

Stuart Wellington

[27:28] And I think we made the wise decision because this movie had a lot more erotica in it than I would have imagined it would have.

[27:34] There was a lot of Jim Carrey's ass.

Dan McCoy

[27:36] A lot of his ass.

Stuart Wellington

[27:38] Like a lot of scenes.

[27:39] A lot of God.

[27:40] Let's shoot my ass.

[27:40] There's a lot of goddamn movie sex scenes where the woman is on her back.

[27:46] She's still wearing her bra.

[27:48] The man is sort of like undulating like waves and you can see his ass the whole time.

S2

[27:53] And it's Jim Carrey.

[27:54] Simon, that's called proper lovemaking.

[27:57] I think you and I are going to...

[27:58] Wait, wait, wait, wait.

[27:59] I think I've got a podcast to make it listen to.

[28:01] Wait, wait a minute.

Stuart Wellington

[28:02] You're not supposed to take the bra off?

[28:05] No.

Dan McCoy

[28:07] Anyway.

[28:07] Our third major character who I want to talk about a while back.

Stuart Wellington

[28:11] Yeah, this was the one that...

[28:12] Danny Houston.

[28:14] Who I would know from what else?

[28:16] The Proposition.

Dan McCoy

[28:17] And The Proposition.

[28:18] That's true.

[28:19] He's briefly in Children of Men.

[28:20] He's in a movie called Silver City.

[28:22] John Sayles movie.

[28:24] Soupy Sayles?

[28:26] He's in the Soupy Sayles story.

[28:29] So John Huston, I guess...

[28:32] John Huston's son, I guess.

[28:34] Yeah.

[28:35] I have a...

[28:36] I always liked seeing Danny Houston movies.

[28:39] And I liked him in this movie.

[28:40] I thought he was probably the best character in this movie.

[28:42] In terms of like...

[28:43] He had that Danny Houston quality of being like oddly creepy.

S2

[28:47] Like...

[28:48] Is this guy the murderer?

[28:49] Was it when it was like in the story, the number 23, where he had a goatee and his name

[28:54] was like Dr. Marius Phoenix?

[28:56] Yeah, it was Dr. Phoenix.

[28:57] A devilish.

Stuart Wellington

[28:58] They're goddamn movie names.

[28:59] Oh, goddammit.

[29:00] These goddamn movie names.

[29:02] Stu, quick, give me a movie name.

[29:03] Make up a movie name right now.

[29:05] Laura Tollins.

[29:07] Okay.

[29:08] Chet Granite.

[29:09] Dan, give me one.

Dan McCoy

[29:10] Dr. Inferno Fireburn.

Stuart Wellington

[29:16] That's a little extreme, but the show keep going.

[29:18] Yeah.

[29:19] That was...

[29:19] It's all about brainstorming.

[29:20] No, okay.

[29:21] Shoot.

[29:21] Quick.

[29:21] Pass it to Steve.

[29:22] Hot potato.

[29:23] Steve, what do you got?

[29:23] Hot potato.

[29:24] Moving in.

S2

[29:27] Walter Sparrow.

Stuart Wellington

[29:30] Jonathan Chet.

[29:32] Nicholas Steelwolf.

[29:34] See, these are goddamn movie names.

[29:35] Mean Man Cruelz.

[29:38] No, you're going too obvious every time.

[29:41] Like, this is bad guy, the guy you want to hate.

[29:46] Jerk monsterly.

[29:49] Goddammit.

[29:50] They're not names that people have in real life.

[29:52] They're names that script writers make up because they're like, uh, boop, boop, boop, boop,

[29:56] looking around the room.

[29:58] Needing to indicate character.

[30:01] Mitch Couch Wall.

[30:03] Table Podcast.

[30:06] Beer Can Cowboy Boots.

[30:09] Like, you fuckers are just making up bullshit.

[30:12] Goddammit.

[30:12] Why don't you just look through the phone book or think of friends' names.

[30:16] Friends would, I'm sure, enjoy having their name appear in a movie.

[30:19] Well, the other thing is when you're working on a production of the scale that I'm sure the number 23 was,

S2

[30:25] you should take the screenplay with the list of names and go up to one of the many people at all,

[30:31] possibly somebody on, like, craft services or, like, a grip.

[30:35] Sure.

[30:35] And be like, have you ever heard of somebody with the last name Dobkins?

[30:41] And they'll be like, no, because that sounds like a bullshit made-up name.

[30:44] Like, oh, okay.

[30:46] X.

[30:46] Let me just X that out.

[30:48] What about the last name Tollins?

[30:50] Like, no, absolutely not.

Stuart Wellington

[30:53] What about if I call this character, um, Tolliver St. Clair?

[30:58] Like, that's not a real name.

[30:59] You should name them that.

[31:00] He's like, is he a porno actor?

[31:03] There was more to talk about that movie than there actually was the movie itself.

S2

[31:07] What was it, 27?

[31:09] A trim 32 minutes?

[31:11] 32 minutes and 23 seconds.

Stuart Wellington

[31:13] Wait a minute, 32 is 23.

S2

[31:16] Man, that's scary.

Stuart Wellington

[31:17] You know what else pissed me off about that movie?

[31:20] It'd be one thing if there actually was the number 23 everywhere.

[31:23] That would've been kind of cool and spooky.

[31:24] But a lot of times it was 32.

[31:26] It's like, that's 23 backwards.

[31:27] It's like, well, yeah, but it's not fucking 23.

[31:30] No, no, but it is because both numbers are in it.

Dan McCoy

[31:32] It really worked hard.

[31:33] It's like you were saying when we were watching the movie.

[31:35] It's got 23.

[31:36] Like, oh my god, there are atoms in everything.

[31:39] Right.

[31:40] Everything's made of atoms.

S2

[31:41] Ah, weird, weird.

[31:44] I still don't understand at what point Jim Carrey's character assumed that because the number 23 was involved somehow in, like, life, that, like, all life was made up of 23 variants.

[31:58] Why that was a bad thing.

[32:00] That, like, mathematics generally uses, like, what?

[32:03] Like, a system of 10s where it's like, you know, you got 10, 20, 30, that kind of bullshit.

Stuart Wellington

[32:08] Like, yeah, as soon as I figured that out.

S2

[32:11] You lost your mind.

[32:12] I literally can't enjoy life.

[32:15] The sun is a little bit darker.

Stuart Wellington

[32:17] You know what else pissed me off about this movie?

[32:19] The whole goddamn thing, the whole goddamn twist all came down to the fact that he fucking had amnesia.

[32:25] Yeah, that's true.

[32:26] That's bullshit.

[32:27] That's a goddamn twist movie bullshit.

[32:30] You could name two movies.

[32:31] There are two movies with good twists.

[32:34] There might be, in the entire canon of films, perhaps eight others.

[32:39] Perhaps.

[32:39] In all movies there have ever been.

[32:41] And yet they persist.

[32:43] They fucking persist in taking what is just ostensibly like a kind of action thriller.

[32:47] Like, oh man, what if someone did go crazy?

[32:50] What if this husband went crazy?

[32:52] And what if there was also a twist in the end?

[32:55] Wouldn't that be good?

[32:56] Like, no!

[32:57] Just, oh god damn it!

S2

[32:59] I liked high tension and there was a twist in high tension.

[33:01] Yeah, well I didn't care for high tension.

Dan McCoy

[33:03] Yeah, but I mean like, I liked high tension too, but the twist in high tension you can only take on the most metaphorical level.

[33:09] Well, I didn't like the twist part of that.

S2

[33:11] I like the fact that there was a bunch of gore and shit.

[33:13] Alright, but that's the point.

[33:14] And there was at least one female estimation scene.

[33:16] We're talking about twists, Stuart.

Dan McCoy

[33:18] Oh.

[33:18] If we're talking about twists, you can't hold up high tension as an exemplar of a good twist.

[33:24] Of how good it was because of the gore in it.

[33:26] Because like, literally, the problem with high tension is there's a non-existent truck following them the entire time.

[33:34] It doesn't work as a twist ending.

[33:36] I see the shock in your face.

[33:37] He's remembering to be like, wait a minute.

[33:40] Wait a minute, that twist doesn't make any sense.

[33:43] Anyway.

[33:43] Let's wrap this segment up.

[33:44] Let's talk about it.

[33:45] Break it down.

Stuart Wellington

[33:46] Let's wrap this.

[33:46] Hold on, let's review high tension.

Dan McCoy

[33:49] Let's wrap this segment up.

Stuart Wellington

[33:51] Wait, which segment was this?

[33:52] Oh, this is the main segment.

[33:53] The body.

[33:53] The actual body of the cast.

Dan McCoy

[33:57] This was the reason that the podcast exists.

[34:00] This is Final Judgment.

[34:01] And I've got some special Halloween month categories.

[34:05] Ooh, I like this.

[34:06] So, guys, was this movie a total frightmare?

[34:11] You're a dick, by the way.

[34:14] Was it scarifyingly funny?

[34:17] Okay, that's a little bit less dickish, but still sort of your dick.

Stuart Wellington

[34:20] Or was it snorifying?

[34:25] That's actually really good.

[34:26] I like that one.

[34:27] So, what do you think?

[34:27] That's kind of like my snooze factory.

[34:29] Yeah.

[34:30] I think this movie, you know what, I'm going to break my curmudgeonly streak I've been having here.

[34:37] And I'll say the second one, kind of, I guess.

[34:39] I kind of liked it all right, I guess.

[34:40] I mean, it was stupid, but you know what, it was watchable.

[34:43] It at least wasn't, like, really poorly produced, you know?

[34:46] It was okay, I guess.

S2

[34:47] Yeah, I don't know.

[34:48] I'm a little up in the air, guys.

[34:50] On one hand, it was really stupid.

[34:53] That's true.

Stuart Wellington

[34:54] Yeah, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[34:55] I don't want to give the impression that it wasn't stupid.

S2

[34:58] No, I don't like it at all, dude.

[35:00] What was the worst one?

[35:01] The snore?

[35:02] Snore.

[35:02] Snore fine.

[35:02] It was snore fine.

[35:03] I think it was totally snore fine, dude.

[35:05] It wasn't really scary.

Dan McCoy

[35:06] There was no blood.

[35:08] I'm going to go with Simon.

[35:09] I'm going to say it's scarifyingly funny.

[35:12] You know, like, Joel Schumacher, not a good director.

[35:16] I'm going to go out on a limb.

Stuart Wellington

[35:19] Guys, you know what?

[35:20] We've said a lot tonight, but Joel Schumacher, not a skilled director.

[35:24] Not a good director.

Dan McCoy

[35:25] However, competent.

[35:27] We didn't just sit through memory.

[35:29] Right.

[35:30] Well, right.

[35:30] Sure.

[35:31] No, that's fair.

[35:32] It kept moving at a good clip.

[35:34] Just the idea, the very idea that we were, that he had the audacity to ask us to be scared

[35:39] of a number.

Stuart Wellington

[35:40] You kind of respect the balls.

[35:42] I kind of enjoyed it, you know.

[35:44] Okay.

[35:44] So basically what you're saying is, Joel Schumacher, you're, I mean, he's not going to be breaking

[35:48] any home run records.

[35:49] He's the guy you put up in the batting lineup when you needed somebody on first base.

[35:53] Sure.

[35:54] You need to get a first, you need to get a single.

[35:55] You need to get a really good bund.

[35:57] Yeah, sure.

[35:58] Wait.

S2

[35:58] Have you made Mothman Chronicles?

[36:00] Oh, no.

[36:01] I don't think, I don't think he did.

Stuart Wellington

[36:02] It feels like a Joel Schumacher though, doesn't it?

[36:04] Yeah.

[36:05] That movie sucks.

[36:06] Yeah, it did.

[36:07] But again, that was another, that was scarifyingly funny.

[36:10] That's another one of those movies where you're watching and you're like, yeah, this movie

[36:13] kind of blows, but I don't know, I guess like I'm not mad that I'm watching it.

[36:17] Like I don't want to punch the DVD.

[36:20] Oh.

[36:21] Hey, let's watch Mothman Chronicles.

[36:25] Let's do that after we're recording this.

[36:27] That'll be fun.

[36:29] That'll be a nice way to kill an evening.

[36:31] Oh.

[36:32] Somebody start popping some fucking popcorn.

[36:35] Some red and butter.

[36:36] Popping some fucking pop tarts.

Dan McCoy

[36:39] Well, let's turn away from things that we hate.

[36:41] Sure, let's talk about good stuff.

[36:42] Thanks we love.

[36:43] I know I'm springing this on you guys a little bit, but normally when we talk about things

[36:47] we like, you know, it's things we've seen recently.

[36:49] Sure.

[36:50] Because this is our special October, like sort of Halloween month podcast.

[36:54] I like where this is going.

[36:56] I'm going to break the thing.

[36:57] I'm going to say, is there some overlooked horror movie that you would like to recommend

[37:02] to be?

[37:03] No, it makes sense.

[37:04] Want to go first or?

Stuart Wellington

[37:06] I think, Stu, what do you got?

S2

[37:09] Wait, this is supposed to be something I like and not something I hate.

Stuart Wellington

[37:12] Yeah, this is a horror movie that you've seen in your life that you think is really cool

[37:16] and you think most people might not know about.

S2

[37:18] This is my little moment to talk about a movie called Night of the Demons.

[37:22] Yeah, I knew it.

[37:24] It's hands down my favorite Halloween movie of all time.

[37:28] You got demons.

[37:30] You got a bunch of nudity.

[37:32] You got Lena Quigley.

[37:33] You got the weird opening where the old guy's like, goddamn kids.

[37:38] And then he holds up an apple and a razor blade.

[37:41] And then at the end of the movie, he accidentally gets killed by a razor blade apple pie.

[37:45] It's just a solidly well-made movie.

[37:48] So you should watch it right now.

[37:51] Right now?

[37:52] Right now.

[37:52] I'm sorry.

[37:53] I feel very strongly about this.

[37:55] I bullshit a lot.

[37:56] I'm kind of like a silly guy.

[37:58] But I feel very strong about this.

[37:59] But in all seriousness, this is...

[38:00] Fair enough.

[38:01] Daniel.

Dan McCoy

[38:02] I would like to recommend Brain Damage.

[38:05] This is 1988.

[38:06] Frank Hinlader.

[38:08] This guy, the director who did this, directed Basket Case, which is much better known.

[38:13] Sure.

[38:13] He also did Frankenhooker.

[38:15] I'm not familiar with that one.

[38:16] I would recommend Brain Damage.

[38:17] Get the uncut version, the unrated version.

Stuart Wellington

[38:19] Wait, is Brain Damage the one that has Bill Paxson and Bill Pullman in it?

[38:22] No.

[38:23] Or is that Brain something?

[38:24] It's not the Brain, right?

[38:25] No.

[38:25] The Brainiacs?

Dan McCoy

[38:26] It is something Brain.

[38:28] The Brain Masters?

[38:29] There's a brain film that is the legendary teaming of the Paxton and Pullman.

[38:34] The Paxton and Pullman.

Stuart Wellington

[38:35] Guys who, for a long time, I thought were the same guy.

Dan McCoy

[38:37] But, no, Brain Damage is about this worm named Almer.

[38:42] Wow, I've never seen that.

[38:42] Who basically injects this psychotropic sort of substance into this guy's head.

[38:49] And, you know, like so many horror movies, it's sort of like an allegory for other things.

[38:54] And this movie is an allegory for addiction.

S2

[38:56] We all know how we're all addicted to drug worms.

Dan McCoy

[38:59] This drug worm basically makes this guy kill people.

[39:03] And, you know, the 80s were a golden age for horror.

[39:06] And it's got this weird, like, it's kind of like if Repo Man was a horror movie.

Stuart Wellington

[39:11] Now, this is actually funny.

[39:12] It's funny that this is the question for the show.

[39:16] We talked a lot about how, well, Stu did, about how stupid it is in movies when they have,

[39:21] like, a story or another movie or a book in the movie that all the characters talk about either being really good or really scary.

[39:29] One of my favorite horror movies is John Carpenter's In the Mouth of Madden.

[39:33] I really like that movie for reasons that have never been clear to me.

[39:37] Like, I watch it.

[39:37] It's a really tough sell, dude.

[39:38] I know.

[39:38] I realize that.

[39:39] And that's why, like, I don't bring it up that often.

[39:42] Because I know it's crazy.

[39:44] And I watch it and I can't point to what it is about it that I like.

[39:47] Sam Neill.

[39:48] That's part of it.

[39:49] Sure.

[39:50] I like Sam Neill.

[39:51] I think it also has to do with, there's a bunch of scenes in an asylum, and that's always scary.

[39:56] I don't know.

[39:56] There's just something about it.

[39:57] Like, I always get little goose pimples.

Dan McCoy

[40:00] I like John Carpenter.

[40:01] It's not my favorite John Carpenter movie.

[40:04] It's one of my favorites.

S2

[40:05] Memoirs of an Invisible Man's your favorite.

[40:07] Prince of Darkness.

Dan McCoy

[40:08] Prince of Darkness.

[40:09] I actually kind of like Prince of Darkness.

[40:10] I think Prince of Darkness is an overlooked John Carpenter movie.

S2

[40:14] I said kind of.

[40:15] I didn't say I really liked it.

[40:17] You know, a bad job.

[40:18] It's not like it's Halloween or something.

[40:20] It's fucking Ghost of Mars.

[40:21] It's a bad.

Stuart Wellington

[40:22] Shut your mouth.

[40:23] No, no.

[40:23] Whoa, whoa, whoa, Dan.

[40:24] John Carpenter's Halloween is literally one of the shittiest.

[40:27] And it's so, I mean, it's been fucking canonized, and it's bullshit.

[40:31] Because it's not really good.

[40:32] You can talk, but this part is good.

[40:32] No, it's not.

[40:33] No, you will not edit this out, you son of a bitch.

[40:35] No, no.

[40:36] No, you will not edit this out.

[40:37] At the very least, because the joke about editing out is too funny.

[40:40] Don't edit it out.

[40:41] Leave it in.

S2

[40:42] I think you're really selling those jokes as being significantly funny.

Stuart Wellington

[40:46] No, it's really good.

[40:47] Trust me.

[40:48] It'll play a lot better than it sounds to you.

[40:49] It'll play.

[40:50] Yeah, it plays.

[40:52] So, yeah.

[40:53] What's, um, the next one is what?

[40:54] What are we talking about?

[40:55] What's next week?

[40:55] Well, I...

[40:56] Well, uh...

[40:57] Hey, are any fucking new Saw's out on DVD?

[40:59] Let's watch a goddamn Saw movie.

[41:01] How about that?

S2

[41:02] Saw 3.

[41:03] Yeah, fuck yeah.

[41:03] Let's watch Saw 3.

[41:04] No, no, no, no, no, Dan argue that we shouldn't watch Saw 3.

[41:06] Why not?

[41:07] Because it might be pretty good.

Dan McCoy

[41:08] Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute.

[41:09] I didn't say pretty good.

[41:11] I said it might be too competent for this.

Stuart Wellington

[41:14] Well, we just watched a Joel Schumacher film.

[41:16] That's competent.

Dan McCoy

[41:17] All right, so tune in next time when we may be watching Cino Evil, Prime Evil, The Grudge 2,

[41:22] and Warsaw 3.

Stuart Wellington

[41:24] Wait, you said the movie about the fucking alligator, right?

[41:26] That was on there, right?

[41:27] Yeah.

[41:27] Okay, good.

Dan McCoy

[41:28] That had Orlando Jones in it.

[41:29] I like to point out that Orlando Jones and Juergen Prochnow are in...

[41:33] Dude, he was in The Model Madness.

Stuart Wellington

[41:36] He was.

[41:37] I know.

[41:38] He was also Duglito Atreides.

[41:40] Wasn't he also Vigo from Ghostbusters 2?

[41:43] No?

[41:44] No.

[41:45] Who was that guy?

[41:46] But he was the guy...

[41:47] Juergen Prochnow's dad?

Dan McCoy

[41:48] But Juergen Prochnow was the guy they were trying to get released in Air Force One.

Stuart Wellington

[41:53] Yes.

[41:54] Wait, maybe I don't know who Juergen Prochnow is.

[41:57] You don't.

[41:57] I don't think I do.

[41:58] It's very possible.

Dan McCoy

[41:59] Wait, would you rather see The Grudge 2, Saw 3, or Cino Evil?

Stuart Wellington

[42:04] I can't want to see Saw 3.

[42:05] Saw 3, probably.

[42:06] Alright, two votes for Saw 3.

[42:08] Two beats one.

[42:09] Two beats one.

Dan McCoy

[42:10] So, we'll watch Saw 3.

[42:11] Awesome!

[42:13] Before we sign off, though, I've been forgetting this for the last few podcasts.

[42:17] For all the listeners out there who have not done so, visit the flophousepodcast.blogspot.com

[42:24] Oh, yeah.

[42:24] For show notes and all things Flophouse.

Stuart Wellington

[42:27] Check out blogspot.internet.com backslash thepodcastjerks.

Dan McCoy

[42:33] Theflophousepodcast.blogspot.com.

[42:34] If you like the show and have a little time, while you're there, click on the links.

[42:39] You can vote for us at Podcast Alley or write a nice review in iTunes.

Stuart Wellington

[42:43] You should also tell a lot of people you know about this.

[42:45] Sure.

[42:46] And play it for them.

Dan McCoy

[42:47] And you can send us email.

[42:49] This one was a big one.

[42:50] Well, it wasn't our finest work.

[42:51] Jerk.

[42:52] And you can send us email at theflophousepodcast.blogspot.com.

[42:57] And we may respond on the air.

[43:00] Yeah, wouldn't that be weird?

[43:01] What a great-ass thing.

[43:01] Won't that be a delightful reward to you?

S2

[43:04] Are you saying the Flophouse podcast at Gmail wasn't already taken?

Dan McCoy

[43:09] I'm saying that theflophouse at Gmail was taken.

[43:13] Oh.

[43:13] And thus theflophousepodcast.blogspot.com is our official address.

[43:19] Thanks for checking into the Flophouse tonight.

[43:23] I'm Dan McCoy.

[43:24] I'm Stuart Wellington.

[43:25] And I'm Simon Fisher.

[43:26] Good night.

Stuart Wellington

[43:29] This is only funny to you, goddammit.

[43:32] This is the vanity joke of the entire project.

[43:37] Dan's favorite joke.

[43:40] The joke that's not that funny.

[43:43] Come on, let's go.

[43:44] He's going crazy.

[43:45] It's so funny to him.

[43:46] He can't look at him.

[43:48] Stu, look at Dan.

[43:49] Dan thinks this joke is that funny.

[43:51] He's not even laughing.

[43:52] He's just making a weird old noise.

[43:54] Because he's laughing too much.

[43:55] It's like when you start laughing and it's so funny that you can't even actually laugh anymore.

[43:59] You're just like,

[44:00] Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah.

[44:03] All right, let's settle down.

The Flop House: Episode 4 - The Number 23

Transcript

In this episode

Description