The Flop House: Episode Five - Saw III

[0:00] In this episode of the Flophouse, we discuss Saw III, a movie that delivers exactly what it promises.

[0:07] It is, in fact, the third Saw movie.

[0:10] And now, the special Halloween remix of the Flophouse theme.

[0:16] When I was working in my laboratory, one night, there were a bunch of werewolves there, and they were totally jamming.

[0:23] And there were also mummies! The werewolf and mummies were friends! And there were two Draculas there!

[0:30] And an invisible man!

[0:36] This is only funny to you, goddammit!

[0:41] Here is a partial synopsis of Saw III, courtesy of Wikipedia.

[0:45] In flashback scenes, Detective Eric Matthews, Donnie Wahlberg, escapes the bathroom he was left in in Saw II by breaking his foot.

[0:54] He gets into a vicious fight with Amanda Young, Shawnee Smith, who eventually overcomes him and leaves him for dead.

[1:00] Before she leaves, Matthews calls Amanda a junkie bitch and tells her she isn't Jigsaw, causing her evident distress.

[1:08] Other flashbacks show that Amanda had been working with John Kramer, the Jigsaw killer, Tobin Bell, prior to the events of the first film.

[1:17] In the present, Detective Kerry, Dina Mayer, is investigating the corpse of Jigsaw's latest victim, intrigued by the fact that his trap was inescapable in a break with Jigsaw's M.O.

[1:28] When Kerry returns home, she is kidnapped and put in a trap of her own.

[1:32] When the given escape method fails and Amanda arrives, Kerry realizes this trap is also inescapable and is killed.

[1:39] Meanwhile, a dying Jigsaw orders the abduction of two final victims.

[1:43] Lynn Dinlan, a skilled but depressed doctor, and Jeff Reinhart, a father obsessed with revenge against the drunk driver that killed his son.

[1:51] A collar holding several shotgun shells and hooked to Jigsaw's medical equipment is locked on Lynn,

[1:57] who is tasked with keeping John alive until Jeff's tests are completed under threat of death.

[2:03] If John, the Jigsaw, flatlines, the shells will go off and kill her.

[2:09] Jeff is led through an abandoned meat packing plant, where he is given the choice to rescue three of his top targets of revenge from a variety of timed traps.

[2:18] Does Jeff make it through? Does he survive the test? Does anyone survive?

[2:23] If previous episodes of this podcast are any indication, all will be spoiled for you before we're done.

[2:29] And now let's join the others in the Flophouse.

[2:32] I was really drunk. I don't remember.

[2:35] Alright, let's stop arguing over which podcast we were drunkest in and start the podcast.

[2:40] Sure, let's start it right now.

[2:42] Welcome to the Flophouse, I'm Dan McCoy.

[2:45] I'm Simon Fisher.

[2:46] And I'm Stuart Willington, but I have to go get a beer.

[2:48] Okay, well, I'm sure that Simon and I can keep up your side of the conversation.

[2:54] Sure.

[2:55] While you do that.

[2:56] Hold on, I'm getting a text message.

[2:58] From a large breasted woman.

[3:01] So, before we start my podcast tonight, I'd like to point out one thing.

[3:10] And that is there's going to be a shocking twist ending to this podcast.

[3:13] It's going to be fucking shocking even to me.

[3:15] Interesting.

[3:16] So, wait for that.

[3:18] Okay, cool.

[3:19] It's going to be fun.

[3:20] Can they start speculating early on?

[3:21] They can start speculating. And I'm actually going to go get the timer, which I forgot to set, for the podcast.

[3:27] So now you two can take up the...

[3:29] Hey, while our viewers are speculating, Stuart, what do you think the twist is going to be?

[3:34] I think it might have something to do...

[3:40] My prediction is that these podcasts are not actually being put up onto the internet at all.

[3:44] And Dan's just been recording them.

[3:46] Like, the mic was never even plugged in.

[3:49] That's going to be the twist ending.

[3:51] Ironic twist ending.

[3:52] For me, the twist ending will be that I find out that we're actually recording this for the internet.

[3:59] Because I thought this was just some bandy piece that he did.

[4:01] No, no, okay, see, we were totally on different pages then.

[4:04] Isn't that weird how that happens?

[4:06] It's like a mirror darkly, man.

[4:08] Exactly, dude. We're like opposite days.

[4:11] So, Dan. Dan's got a beer. Stuart's got a beer. I got a beer.

[4:15] We're all ready to sit down and have a good talk about the movie we watched this evening, which was...

[4:19] Saw 3.

[4:20] That's right, Saw 3.

[4:22] You're smiling.

[4:23] I am?

[4:24] You're smiling.

[4:25] Who among us here has seen Saw 1 and 2?

[4:29] I know I have.

[4:30] Should I raise my hand or say...

[4:31] Say that you have.

[4:32] I've actually seen both movies here.

[4:34] I have as well, despite, I would say, not being a Saw fan.

[4:37] Sure, that's fair.

[4:38] Why aren't you a Saw fan, Dan?

[4:40] Well, let me go first. Here's the reason why I'm not a Saw fan.

[4:43] It's because they're not horror movies at all.

[4:45] Well, that seems interesting.

[4:46] Let me explain.

[4:47] Because when I go to the video store, they are filed under the horrors.

[4:52] That's true.

[4:53] The problem is most video stores don't feel comfortable having a section called Snuff Films.

[4:57] Which is why the Saw movies get slid over to the horror section.

[5:00] There has never been anything in any one of the three Saw movies that was scary.

[5:05] Because they're not horror movies.

[5:07] They're clearly not setting out to make you afraid.

[5:10] What they're doing is like, hey, you want to see a bunch of fucked up tortures for the next two hours?

[5:15] It's a buffet of unpleasantness.

[5:17] It's almost as though someone was like, man, if I ever read a horror movie, I'd have this cool death scene.

[5:23] And they're like, oh yeah, that's weird. I'd have this one.

[5:25] And they're like, hey, fuck that. Let's just put all these cool-ass death scenes in a movie.

[5:29] Wouldn't that be awesome?

[5:30] Like, no. It's called a Snuff Film.

[5:31] It does sort of suggest the question, are there people out there saying to themselves,

[5:36] I want something that's just going to make me feel really unpleasant and uncomfortable and wince.

[5:42] I want to wince for two hours.

[5:44] I'm really looking for an experience that, I don't know, is just kind of fucked up, you know?

[5:48] Like, I want to see something really fucked up.

[5:50] And I said this earlier. I want to make it clear.

[5:52] I am far from a moralist when it comes to movies.

[5:55] I love violence in movies.

[5:57] That's great.

[5:58] I love sex in movies.

[6:00] Like, I think that those are two of the primary reasons people go to the movies.

[6:04] Yes, absolutely.

[6:05] In terms of, like, horror movies that have torture as an element,

[6:08] I thought Hostel was a good movie.

[6:11] Because I think that Hostel is sort of, like, in a lot of ways, sort of a black comedy.

[6:16] And it's also making a point about, like, Americans abroad.

[6:20] I think the point, though, is that Hostel's got a lot going for it.

[6:23] It isn't just a series of, like, man, that's fucked up, huh?

[6:28] How about that shit?

[6:29] So, yeah, going into this, I was admittedly expecting a lot more of the same from this goddamn song.

[6:34] I mean, I was not fucking disappointed at all.

[6:37] Bunch of fucked up tortures and deaths that were all just sound theory signifying nothing.

[6:41] You know, I'm going to agree with both of you.

[6:46] What?

[6:47] And say that I don't like Saw movies.

[6:50] Partly because they're not horror movies.

[6:52] Partly because, you know what, I think Rube Goldberg shit is kind of boring.

[6:58] If I want to play an awesome game of Mousetrap, I'll crack out the box.

[7:03] Now, you are an admitted lover of Final Destination 2, however.

[7:08] That's true.

[7:10] Shit.

[7:11] It doesn't get much more Rube Goldberg than that.

[7:13] Shit.

[7:14] Turn off the podcast! Stop recording!

[7:16] Oh, my God.

[7:18] Okay, now I'm going to defend Final Destination 2 for, one, that movie is way stupider.

[7:24] Yeah, that's true.

[7:25] There's more explosions.

[7:27] It clearly is a movie that does not take itself near as seriously as the creators of Saw demand that you take their movies.

[7:32] Well, right, because Saw seems to believe that it is imparting a moral lesson to the viewer.

[7:38] I think that's the worst part.

[7:39] The worst part is you watch these fucking movies, and I'm 100% convinced that whoever is responsible for this filmmaking,

[7:45] I don't know if it's the director or the screenwriter or whomever,

[7:47] someone is firmly convinced that, like, it feels like every time I watch the movie,

[7:51] I can see them behind my shoulder being like,

[7:53] Huh, Saw's got a point, though.

[7:54] I mean, think about it.

[7:55] Saw's got a fucking point, man.

[7:56] Like, no, fuck that!

[7:57] How is this a fucking movie?

[7:59] How are you literally advocating, like, you know what?

[8:02] That guy was kind of a douchebag.

[8:04] Probably should have had his fucking feet chopped off.

[8:07] I don't know.

[8:08] Whatever.

[8:09] The thing is that if that was actually the case,

[8:11] if you actually think that these guys spend that much time thinking about their fucking movie,

[8:14] that they would actually come up with some kind of moral judgment,

[8:17] they'd be like, you know what?

[8:18] Saw's got a point.

[8:19] Like, humanity kind of deserves to have their feet chopped off.

[8:22] The thing is that that's not the case.

[8:24] What I think it is is that here's a bunch of fucking dickheads that saw the movie Seven

[8:28] and popular movie Seven,

[8:30] and they're like, you know what?

[8:32] Let's just do that line.

[8:34] That shit made a lot of money.

[8:36] I like making money.

[8:38] Let's make a shitload of those.

[8:40] Right, but in Seven...

[8:41] I like that.

[8:42] I like Stu's reading because it's just as cynical,

[8:45] but for totally different reasons.

[8:48] But in Seven, they make it clear that this guy is crazy,

[8:51] that he's obsessed with the seven deadly sins,

[8:54] and that makes him crazy.

[8:56] I think that we could say then that what Stu's suggesting is that they are not only,

[9:01] I don't know, completely lacking any sense of originality,

[9:05] but they are also crappy at making movies.

[9:08] The difference is Jigsaw sees people who, I guess,

[9:11] have some sort of ennui about their lives.

[9:14] Well, in most cases, that's what it seems to come down to.

[9:17] In most cases, it's never like...

[9:19] None of the people did a bad thing.

[9:22] It wasn't like, oh yeah, that guy raped 10,000 grandmothers.

[9:26] He was a true monster.

[9:28] It's like, yeah, you're just fucking not appreciating what you've got very much,

[9:33] so check this shit out.

[9:34] I'm about to fucking put a shitload of bombs in your mouth.

[9:37] See if you can pull them all out in time.

[9:39] I also wired your jaw shut.

[9:40] Fucking have fun, dude.

[9:41] Here's a hammer.

[9:43] Like, this is a fucking movie!

[9:44] Right now, I hear it.

[9:45] Don't steal that.

[9:46] That's how I copy it.

[9:47] You can't put that in Saw V.

[9:48] Go to hell.

[9:49] It's called Hammer Man.

[9:50] Wait, it's called, um...

[9:51] Lots of bombs in your mouth.

[9:53] No, no, hold on.

[9:54] It's not called Saw.

[9:55] Let's call it...

[9:56] The Jigsaw Murder.

[9:58] No, wait, no, that's already taken too long.

[10:00] Can I say, um, one thing that bothers me about the Saw movies is I do not find the Saw mask

[10:07] creepy in any way.

[10:08] Well that's, you know what, that's a really good point.

[10:10] It looks like some, perhaps an 8th grader made a pinata in art class and they were like,

[10:17] you know, what'll sort of beef up this poorly made, like, face.

[10:21] I don't know, I'll put a little, like, spirals on the cheeks.

[10:24] You know, let me tell you something, I think we could probably use that as a, uh, as like

[10:27] a touchstone for the entire Saw movie experience.

[10:30] Made by 8 year olds.

[10:31] I think let's just, because again, like, I mean, I don't mean to harp on this, but the

[10:35] fact that this, for it being ostensibly a scary movie, and it's just people dying, it's

[10:41] just such like this weird, like, childish idea of what's scary.

[10:44] Oh man, seeing someone die, weird!

[10:47] Like it's so stupid.

[10:48] Right, what, like, what if you had to make a choice between putting your face in acid

[10:54] or having ants eat off your legs?

[10:56] Like that's what it said, like I said, it's like a bunch of fuckers sitting around, like

[11:00] it's a bunch of high school freshmen sitting around getting high, and their parents' face

[11:03] being like, wait, wait, wait, wait, which would you rather do?

[11:07] Have all your fingernails pulled off by fucking skeletons, or, or have them fell into a blood,

[11:15] I don't know, something like that?

[11:16] That's a much cooler movie.

[11:17] If there was like a movie about skeletons pulling people's fingernails off, that would

[11:22] scare me.

[11:23] But you're saying it's like, it's like, would you rather the movie?

[11:26] Right, yep.

[11:27] Would you rather have sex with a bunch of monsters, or get in a fistfight with two aliens?

[11:34] Or like, the classic one being, that a friend of mine posited to me, was, if your dad was

[11:40] dying of a terminal illness and the only way to cure him was to fuck him in the ass, would

[11:45] you do it?

[11:46] That was, that was given to you by your best friend of all, I would imagine.

[11:51] That's something that you rank really highly in like, in the world of people.

[11:56] Well, no, this person is very near and dear to me, but there was a period of time where

[12:00] the fucking would you rather game was getting a lot of fucking playtime, and that one was

[12:05] the one that like, oh dude, I don't want to play this for as long as it's in your mind.

[12:08] Like it is!

[12:09] First of all, I think you would have difficulty maintaining an erection.

[12:14] Partially due to the fact that you're probably in a hospital.

[12:17] Sure.

[12:18] Partially due to the fact that you were trying to have sex with your father's aides.

[12:21] If your father was dying, you would maintain that erection.

[12:24] Yeah, you would find that somewhere, like, the fucking shits would give you that erection.

[12:29] The erection you so desperately needed to save your father.

[12:32] We're getting off topic.

[12:33] Now, I would like to say, in addition to the whole torture problem, the non-scariness of

[12:39] torture, and I, you know, don't get me wrong, if I was getting tortured in real life, pretty

[12:44] fucking scary.

[12:45] Sure.

[12:46] As a third party.

[12:47] Well again, like, I just want to throw this out there, because I don't want to get bogged

[12:51] down in this weird psychological conversation that I don't think any of us are equipped

[12:54] to actually follow through with.

[12:56] But I don't know if it's like that mechanism in your brain to get scared watching a good

[13:01] scary movie is probably not the same, I would imagine, reaction that's happening as you're

[13:06] anticipating, I don't know, getting tortured.

[13:09] I think it's a different thing.

[13:10] I think that's the point that these fucking soft fuckers seem to miss.

[13:14] There are things that are scary, and there are things that I would really very sincerely

[13:18] rather not happen to me.

[13:20] The thing about the Saw franchise is that so much of it is, rather than any kind of

[13:25] fear, it's that like, almost excited anticipation as to see what kind of cool torture they're

[13:30] going to introduce.

[13:31] Like, oh man, he just entered another room.

[13:33] Oh shit, the door just slammed behind him.

[13:36] What awesome new trap did he enter into?

[13:39] Oh no, a bunch of hammers are going to smash his face!

[13:42] Let's talk about those...

[13:44] Is his hammer suspended above the door in like a bucket?

[13:47] No!

[13:48] That would be the worst trap ever, Dan!

[13:51] You are not hired to work on my fucking movies!

[13:54] I came up with that cool skeleton idea!

[13:56] This is as if Saw was less a mastermind than a prankster.

[14:00] Like a crazy prankster!

[14:02] Let's talk about what a fucking mastermind Saw is, because he's a fucking super mastermind.

[14:07] The in-twist of this movie, twist as, it's a loose interpretation of the word, but to

[14:13] make this work, Saw has to be able to anticipate exactly what every human in the film is going

[14:20] to do in each scenario.

[14:22] And he always does it perfectly, and that's what I admire about him, because he's a genius.

[14:26] Saw's a genius, that's the thing.

[14:27] He's three for three at this point.

[14:29] Yeah, he's, oh god, he's so fucking good.

[14:31] And he's so good at fucking designing these goddamn traps, and I don't get where he gets

[14:37] the money for the traps.

[14:39] Or the Saw Consortium?

[14:41] Yeah, well that's the thing, what I think is interesting is first your confusion is

[14:46] how Saw must have gone to some kind of school where he learned all about how people react

[14:51] to certain environmental situations, but Simon is more interested in the actual physical

[14:56] like, the trap aspect, like financing, how he creates this death-like warehouse.

[15:03] And what that does is you just cast a light on the multi-faceted nature of Saw's genius.

[15:09] It operates on so many fucking levels.

[15:11] I think Simon wants a Saw movie that's kind of like Batman Begins, where there's a scene

[15:16] where Michael Caine is like,

[15:18] So, what we're going to do is we're going to order all of the bat traps through...

[15:26] Okay, first of all, I'm sorry, I'm going to interrupt you.

[15:28] That is an incredible Michael Caine impression.

[15:30] I'm tremendously impressed by it.

[15:31] Do you practice that?

[15:33] A little bit.

[15:34] It's fucking really good.

[15:35] It's a really good Michael Caine impression.

[15:36] Here's the thing, I think we would, I think of course, like I could, I don't, the problem

[15:40] is the movie at this point, they have to make that movie.

[15:43] Like, they have to explain it.

[15:45] It's the same problem, like we were talking about when we were watching the goddamn thing.

[15:48] If they had just in the first one, or maybe it was more the second one where they revealed

[15:52] like, oh, he's like a guy who has like, tumor brain cancer.

[15:55] Yeah, that was the first one.

[15:56] That was the first one.

[15:57] If they had just kept their fucking mouths shut and was like, yeah, you know what, he's

[16:00] just a mysterious shadow, we figure that fucks people up.

[16:02] He's a real weird dick.

[16:04] Instead, they fucking had to do that goddamn thing where it's like, well, we owe the viewer

[16:09] some explanation.

[16:10] Like, no, you don't.

[16:11] Because everyone went into it, like, I guarantee you, people don't go see slasher movies to

[16:15] be like, whoa, whoa, wait a minute.

[16:17] They didn't explain very well why the killer kills people.

[16:20] It doesn't fucking matter.

[16:21] That's not why you see those fucking movies.

[16:23] And speaking of which, I have never seen a killer talk more in a movie than Jigsaw talks

[16:31] in this film.

[16:32] Everything Jigsaw says in this movie is like the final supervillain explanation in a Bond

[16:40] movie.

[16:41] Every monologue out of his mouth is like, Daniel, you didn't realize this when I started

[16:47] the movie.

[16:48] I'm going to talk for the next 15 minutes.

[16:51] Then you will see a quick snippet of someone dying, followed by 20 more minutes of conversation.

[16:56] What you didn't understand is I had this planned out from the beginning.

[17:00] See, it all started on October the 21st, when I took pictures of you and your little son

[17:06] leaving the playground.

[17:08] And then I decided to kill him.

[17:12] So we have a lot of problems with the Saw franchise in general.

[17:15] Sure.

[17:16] What I would like to point out is problems exclusively to Saw III.

[17:20] That's what we just immediately watched.

[17:22] Well, alright.

[17:23] This is the movie where Lady Saw comes into her own.

[17:27] We don't know the character's name.

[17:29] I think she's just called Lady Saw.

[17:31] Amanda.

[17:32] I like Lady Saw.

[17:33] Let's call her Lady Saw.

[17:34] So I'm Lady Saw.

[17:35] Played by Shani Smith.

[17:36] Subscript movies will reveal Baby Saw.

[17:38] Stay tuned for that.

[17:39] Who was in the remake of The Blob and had a small part in the Stand miniseries.

[17:44] Yeah.

[17:45] She was the guy that Nick Bramble-Owes, the deaf guy, met in Newtown.

[17:50] The crazy woman.

[17:52] Kind of pretty.

[17:53] Kind of pretty for a female serial killer.

[17:55] Lady Saw.

[17:56] Lady Saw.

[17:57] I don't know.

[17:58] I mean, it's hard to talk about this movie alone because

[18:01] we were saying this movie appears to be convinced that all of the audience

[18:05] is a huge Saw fan that has studied Saw lore.

[18:09] Because so much of this movie is a flashback to the earlier films

[18:13] to show us that Lady Saw was actually there the whole time.

[18:17] She was in the first movie before she was really introduced as a character

[18:20] other than one of his victims.

[18:22] Like, hey, guess what?

[18:24] She was the dude that kidnapped that one guy.

[18:26] Weird, huh?

[18:27] She put Carrie Elwes in that room.

[18:29] Yeah.

[18:30] Like, all these movies, first of all, seem to take place no more than

[18:33] within a week of each other.

[18:35] And it's all like...

[18:37] At this point, by the third one, it seems like they are retrofitting a trilogy.

[18:41] Yeah.

[18:42] But really, this is how that thing that happened in the first one plays out now.

[18:45] And the problem is, I don't care.

[18:47] No one remembers what happened in the first fucking Saw.

[18:49] What they remember is that Carrie Elwes, at the end,

[18:51] was fucking hamming it up and he sawed off his own leg.

[18:54] And then the guy was in the room the whole time.

[18:56] That's all fucking anyone remembers.

[18:58] Because it was not a memorable movie.

[19:00] Well, they made three of them.

[19:02] Yeah, I know. They keep making money.

[19:04] However, let's also point out that Lionsgate will apparently distribute any goddamn thing.

[19:08] That's true.

[19:09] They have a shotgun style of marketing where it's like,

[19:13] As many movies as possible, we just throw them out there.

[19:15] One of them will stick to the wall.

[19:16] I would like to point out, though, with what you said about the trilogy.

[19:19] The funny thing is, Saw II was actually a movie that was rushed into production

[19:24] when Saw was popular.

[19:26] And they just took a script that was sort of similar to Saw

[19:29] and they turned it into a Saw film.

[19:31] That's an awesome piece of trivia.

[19:33] It's like Die Hard 3 and 4 both started out as non-Die Hard scripts.

[19:39] And they're just like, we need another Die Hard.

[19:41] Let's just take this thing off the pile.

[19:43] You gotta get this thing kicking around the script pile.

[19:45] And so, it's weird now that they've decided to...

[19:47] That's cool. Solid John Klingle.

[19:49] They've got to link all the movies so tightly together.

[19:52] I guess I just don't understand why it's necessary.

[19:55] Why they feel that that's like...

[19:57] We gotta...

[20:00] fires this is a little bit yeah like

[20:02] what's the bigger story

[20:04] what's going on with the lady saw

[20:07] what's her motivations

[20:09] yeah like friday the thirteenth managed to squeeze out you know like

[20:13] tens of movies uh... basically just replaying the same scenario right and

[20:17] you know what they're all fucking really fun to watch number seven was really good

[20:21] yeah the seventh one is a really good one because it's got a lot of interesting new things in it

[20:24] like the the the the telekinetic girl

[20:27] yeah it's got fucking psyche girl which is a really cool twist

[20:31] jason looked really cool in that one too

[20:33] let's not talk about how awesome friday the thirteenth is as a franchise

[20:37] because i even like jason x

[20:39] how slowly it took us to get into the actual saw and how often we

[20:43] digress into other movies indicates just how much we enjoy the thing

[20:47] well it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a stupid movie and it's i mean it's it's

[20:51] it's it's it's watchable

[20:53] like it isn't like

[20:54] stupid it's just such like a dumb thing

[20:56] it's like imagine like if someone was like

[20:58] hey wanna see me uh... do a handstand and then also like hop up and down on my hands

[21:02] at the same time

[21:04] uh... yeah i guess and they do it like really really well

[21:07] but ultimately you don't really care because it's not that cool of a thing

[21:10] you're like no it's alright i guess like

[21:12] i don't really care though like no no wait i'm gonna do it again

[21:15] this time i'll have a box on the bottom of my feet like

[21:17] no i didn't that's fine dude i kinda got the point the first time i'm like no no no wait now

[21:21] what if i told you that this person over here taught me that skill and you're there to do it with me

[21:26] i don't care i really don't care at all

[21:29] that's the best analogy i've ever heard

[21:33] okay my problems with Saw 3 are as follows

[21:36] for one

[21:38] uh... there was a lot it was really boring there was a lot of dead time

[21:41] there was huge patches of dead time

[21:42] during the weird brain surgery part really boring there was like a fifteen minute

[21:46] brain surgery that felt like it occurred in real time they were showing

[21:49] each step of the brain surgery as if it was a training and a lot of it was a lot of it was

[21:53] shots of saw's face and he was kind of like

[21:57] he was giving this kind of weird like james spader from sex lives and videotapes

[22:00] sexy face face

[22:02] that i really didn't know how to read now after that

[22:05] uh... there was also like

[22:06] a dude who played robert the bruisin braveheart like trying to save like trying to get

[22:10] revenge on his like son's killer the problem with that was that like it was

[22:14] such like weirdly tacked on the whole point of the story was more like

[22:17] the bad guy and his like

[22:20] protege

[22:21] which doesn't like this is a fucking horror movie dude right

[22:24] what the fuck like this isn't like

[22:26] hey i need to really understand what's going on in jigsaw's life like i don't

[22:30] give a shit because that's not scary

[22:32] or interesting

[22:33] or interesting for instance

[22:35] like where do they go to buy groceries

[22:37] let's investigate that

[22:39] like how are things going between saw and lady saw like i wonder if they're having any problems

[22:43] oh they are shit

[22:45] that's scary thank christ there's this really cool backdrop story involving robert the bruisin

[22:50] yeah and also at the end it all turns out that it was a test that jigsaw was putting

[22:55] on lady saw and that's how we found out that they were having problems

[22:59] because he felt the need to test them

[23:01] that's that's a relationship trouble

[23:03] yeah she should have seen it coming when a man comes up with an elaborate series of murder

[23:07] related tests

[23:10] or his girlfriend sure this is not the kind of guy you want to be a part of this you're making bad decisions

[23:14] at this point

[23:15] there are many other fish in the sea

[23:17] nice guys good good guys good non serial killers

[23:21] sure they probably wouldn't murder anybody with a weird elaborate bear trap

[23:24] probably would never come up

[23:25] you know there's that one part of the movie where that lady is naked first of all first of all

[23:31] first nude scene in a saw movie with an ice lady

[23:34] yeah and then she got sprayed with a bunch of water and then she froze to death

[23:39] and that was really weird

[23:40] uh... and not scary at all

[23:45] yeah was it erotic stewart?

[23:48] it was i actually had to sneak away for

[23:51] well this was the unrated version

[23:54] it was pretty erotic

[23:55] icy face died and then there was a guy who was going to get drowned in uh...

[24:00] ground up decomposing pigs

[24:02] then he got shotgunned

[24:03] yeah but that guy got saved and then there was

[24:06] well you know what i don't even want to talk about all the shit that happens in this movie

[24:09] all i want to talk about is the fact that

[24:11] this guy robert the bruce has spent the last however many years of his life consumed with the fact that he must

[24:17] claim some kind of justice for the death of his son

[24:20] he must have it

[24:22] there is no sense in living in this world it's a big idiot machine there's no

[24:26] it's all horror there must be reason in his life

[24:29] there must be some recompense

[24:31] so saw sets up this thing where it's like here's your chance to get that revenge blah blah blah blah

[24:35] and at each step of the way robert the bruce reveals you know what not that bad of a guy

[24:40] he tries to save him each time sometimes succeeding other times not but he can let it go

[24:45] the last ten seconds of the fucking movie

[24:48] it's all this big elaborate scheme where saw is like

[24:51] here's your chance to kill me robert the bruce

[24:54] and then he fucking does it

[24:56] like this just happened dude twelve minutes ago and nothing really that bad happened to you

[25:01] oh god i don't understand this character's motivation at all

[25:05] speaking of this just happening twelve minutes ago

[25:08] i think it bears mentioning that at the end

[25:10] while

[25:11] lady saw is lying dying saw explains his scheme in great detail to her

[25:19] and the flashbacks go right up to things that occurred one minute earlier in the movie

[25:25] i thought it was so weird

[25:26] remember when that happened a minute ago now there's a bit of a different twist in there isn't there

[25:31] but not especially

[25:34] like what you see is the fucking synapses and my brain started firing at me and it's like

[25:38] okay it was a big test at the end

[25:40] no i remember

[25:42] twenty seconds ago when she shot that lady

[25:44] why is this a flashback?

[25:46] so yeah i'm gonna be i'm robert the bruce okay i just got through this crazy death trap

[25:50] where three dudes accidentally got killed

[25:53] who i kind of wanted to die but i tried to save but they still died

[25:56] now you're no worse for the wear at this point yeah i'm no worse for the wear i like i end up having

[26:00] like i get a gun with one bullet in it

[26:02] you know i'm going through this weird ass warehouse

[26:04] uh... all of a sudden i see somebody get shot it turns out it's my wife and i'm like

[26:08] oh my god i didn't want that to happen

[26:10] so i shoot the person who shot my wife

[26:12] and i'm standing in this weird like emergency room and my wife's dying she's got this weird ass

[26:16] collar with a shit load of shotgun shells strapped to it

[26:19] i'm like man that's weird and then i see this dude talking a lot who's lying in bed with a

[26:23] bunch of like

[26:24] he looks really sick and who you've never seen before who i've literally never seen before

[26:29] and for absolutely no reason what i think he would have any effect on me

[26:33] because to tell you the truth

[26:34] he looks like a total invalid right he's literally completely an invalid at this point

[26:38] yeah so why would i want to chop him up with a giant like

[26:42] he then says to you

[26:44] there's only i can i can get your wife to safety

[26:46] there's a chance that she can still be safe because she's bleeding to death right now there's a chance that she can be safe

[26:51] i can save her

[26:52] the only thing i need for you to do is just let it all go let go of this final piece

[26:56] wait simon

[26:57] you're not saying it in a creepy enough voice

[26:59] there's only one more thing you have to do robert the priest and that's forgive me

[27:04] or you can torture me with these torture implements

[27:07] and you know what

[27:08] he just fucking kills him and it's fucking really weird it's a really fucking weird thing to do

[27:13] i think you sound a lot like ted levine from tv's monk

[27:17] well ted levine specifically in like uh... joyrider

[27:20] candy candy

[27:22] i thought we were like

[27:24] sounds lame

[27:25] sweet ass little candy can

[27:27] you fuck me

[27:28] i'd fuck me

[27:29] i'd fuck me real good

[27:31] so that's what he sounded like

[27:32] sure i was more like that guy

[27:33] my impression of saw not as good as dan's michael caine

[27:37] i think i might prefer

[27:41] now listen

[27:42] he's doing it again

[27:43] awesome

[27:44] now listen

[27:45] all you have to do is get rid of your anger towards me

[27:49] if you do that

[27:50] i'll get your wife to safety

[27:52] there'll be plenty of time

[27:53] everything will be ok

[27:55] just leave me alone

[27:56] forgive yourself and him

[27:58] and it'll be fine

[27:59] that's michael caine's song

[28:01] and i had my hands over my eyes

[28:03] and i fucking thought michael caine was in the room with me

[28:05] it was fucking uncanny

[28:07] i would have liked michael caine's song

[28:08] i would have liked ted levine's song

[28:10] hey how great would it have been if michael caine had been in that movie

[28:12] that's a fucking watchable guy

[28:14] the thing is that

[28:15] i think you're being unfair to tobin bell

[28:19] first of all tobin bell

[28:21] this is tobin bell's gravy train

[28:24] this is his softball pitch like

[28:27] alright we're going to need you to act

[28:29] mmm ish

[28:31] when did you say he's normally like that

[28:34] what i'm saying is you're going to need to show up

[28:36] your actual screen time is going to

[28:38] if you condense it

[28:39] come down to about a half an hour

[28:40] what you're going to do

[28:41] is you're going to need to look creepy

[28:43] but i think you're half covered

[28:45] no insult to you covered

[28:47] somehow you have this thing with your eyes

[28:49] where both eyelids are closed in the middle

[28:51] but you're looking around and moving somehow

[28:53] so just look creepy

[28:55] or just do your token thing

[28:57] yeah that thing right there you're doing right there

[28:59] where you're looking at me

[29:00] and lie in this bed

[29:02] and that's pretty much all we need

[29:04] what i'm saying is that it was probably not his most demanding project

[29:07] you also have to record a bunch of things on these little mini cassette tapes

[29:10] you can do that from home though

[29:11] literally just send us in the tapes

[29:13] we can use those as the props themselves

[29:15] because the actual sound effects they used in the movie

[29:18] were the actual fucking like

[29:20] tapes they played

[29:21] it wasn't fucking ADR work or anything

[29:24] that's how they got that amazing sound qualities

[29:26] because they were from fucking like

[29:28] home fucking tape recorders

[29:30] because those fucking little fuckers man

[29:32] we got a real good sound out of those

[29:34] exactly dude

[29:35] like i don't see why more like popular recording

[29:40] you should just fucking stock up a studio

[29:42] whatever music studio you're in

[29:43] with a bunch of those little fuckers

[29:44] because man you get a fucking crisp sound man

[29:47] like a crisp sharp sound

[29:49] alright it's time to render our final judgments

[29:54] and uh

[29:55] shitboat's ill for Saw 3

[29:57] and i have to remind you

[30:00] you and our listeners of the official flop house categories

[30:03] is this a movie you would not recommend to anyone

[30:06] a movie that uh... you may recommend as a uh... good bad movie a funny movie

[30:12] or a movie that you secretly uh... kinda like

[30:15] i'm gonna create for my verdict a special subcategory the second one

[30:20] first of all this movie is horrible

[30:22] and i wouldn't recommend it to anyone

[30:23] however

[30:24] there is a huge population of people out there who are douchebags who love salt

[30:29] they should fucking see it because you know what it's a fucking totally a saw movie

[30:32] they're gonna fucking eat this shit up

[30:35] so you guys should totally check it out

[30:37] alright fair enough that's uh...

[30:39] i can confidently say that uh... simon's right if people like saw movies they will like

[30:44] this saw movie as it is a saw movie

[30:48] i don't remember your verdicts that you uh... you just said

[30:52] you know for the first time in a while

[30:54] i actually i mean i had some fun watching this movie i mean i think it's

[30:58] retarded but i had fun like saying like that's retarded

[31:01] uh... i was also really drunk so that might affect

[31:05] what i thought

[31:06] so what you're saying though is that you might recommend it

[31:09] i might recommend it to watch and be like this is retarded

[31:12] to have a good laugh sure

[31:14] well i'm gonna say that

[31:16] this is by far my least favorite movie we've watched i would probably agree

[31:19] well no i didn't no that's not it the sound of thunder was the worst

[31:24] yeah that movie was way fucking shitty it was worse but i enjoyed watching it more

[31:28] this movie i just found unpleasant sound of thunder was tiresome

[31:31] uh... and the thing is

[31:33] i've noticed like a trend like simon usually get like

[31:36] angriest at the movies

[31:39] and stewart is sort of philosophical

[31:42] whereas i'm more analytical sure those are different styles but uh... i have a lot of fucking spice in me

[31:47] but this movie just made me angry

[31:50] well see this is this is see now you understand holy shit so we're changing roles

[31:54] no no because i fucking it makes me mad too i don't analyze it i fucking hate this god damn movie

[31:59] i'm just filled with fucking poison and vinegar for it

[32:01] and see now you fucking know now you can see

[32:05] what it's like to be me where you can't

[32:08] enjoy things and you're just filled with hatred for everything sure like venom like snake venom

[32:13] just all kind of like

[32:14] black shit and centipedes that's all i'm filled with

[32:18] sounds delicious

[32:19] it sounds like something that would make a great intro to a saw movie

[32:23] wait a minute

[32:25] yeah that actually would make a much better intro than any of the other saw movies

[32:29] you know like the shitload of black stuff and centipedes like if a dude walked out and was like

[32:33] didn't you know saw's already dead and he cuts open his chest and a shitload of centipedes jump out

[32:38] that would be fucking really cool and the dude who came out would be wearing like a pig face mask like that

[32:42] yeah i guess

[32:45] i think that pig face mask that they wear is fucking retarded by the way

[32:49] that was a stupid idiot's idea it's from stupid head it's from stupid town

[32:53] let's put stupid town far behind us

[32:56] as stupid town recedes in our rear view mirror

[32:59] let's uh...

[33:00] by the way, good segue

[33:02] let's talk about things that we like

[33:04] over in like town

[33:06] i fucking love like town

[33:09] so uh... hey stew what do you like? again i would uh... it is october

[33:13] maybe an overlooked horror film recommendation of some kind

[33:17] stewie what do you got

[33:18] i have a really bad memory right now

[33:21] what the fuck movie did you just watch? yeah i was going to recommend that

[33:25] i watched black sheep last night and that wasn't a great movie or really that good of a movie

[33:30] in the long run

[33:31] but it had really good gore effects

[33:34] it had some really good shots of the beautiful new zealand countryside

[33:38] and at the end of the day it was a movie about sheep

[33:42] visit sunny new zealand

[33:43] nice

[33:44] i can do this too sometimes

[33:49] it was about... wait which one am i going to do?

[33:51] i don't know just come up with one, say the rest of your thing

[33:55] it was about sheep who killed humans

[33:58] it was terrible

[34:02] okay what do you like?

[34:03] what's your favorite attraction in like town?

[34:05] this isn't

[34:06] that overlooked but it is overlooked compared to a lot of other zombie movies

[34:11] i would say people if they're looking for a good zombie movie maybe they haven't seen

[34:16] return of the living dead

[34:18] now like

[34:20] return of the living dead came to be because uh... john russo the guy who co-wrote

[34:24] night of the living dead with george romero he owned half of the rights

[34:28] to the whole concept of the living dead

[34:31] so he wrote his own novel follow-up to uh... night of the living dead

[34:37] and then that novel

[34:38] was turned into a movie that basically had nothing to do with that novel but uh...

[34:42] dan o'bannon who wrote the screenplays for alien

[34:45] and total recall

[34:47] directed return of the living dead

[34:49] there's an awesome part in return of the living dead where that punk couple is in the graveyard

[34:53] and the woman gets like you think this is a costume? this is a way of life!

[34:57] yeah and then she takes her clothes off yeah she gets completely naked that was fucking awesome

[35:01] i think she was wearing a merkin though

[35:04] i was still masturbating before

[35:07] but you know imagining the hot ass merkin she was wearing well i assumed it wasn't a merkin

[35:13] you didn't know any better i think that you said it best stewart when you defined it as sort of a punk rock remake

[35:18] of night of the living dead yeah

[35:20] it's awesome it's a punk uh... comedy zombie film and i love it

[35:25] for my recommendation i'm going to keep in the same vein which is it's it's very it's

[35:28] very timely because uh... a friend of mine and i had sort of revisited an argument we've had for literally years and years and years

[35:35] i a little bit of back story about me i think the original night of the living dead is retarded

[35:41] and stupid

[35:42] but let's see and dan is not the friend actually it's a different friend that i'm thinking of however i'm going to take care of dan after this

[35:48] the fucking theatrical remake that came out in the mid nineties of the night of the living dead remake

[35:53] directed by tom sweeney is a fucking delight

[35:56] it is a delightful zombie movie

[35:57] now here's what i'll say about that no you're not allowed to fucking jump in on this this is going to be a whole new goddamn conversation

[36:04] can i just say that i do not agree that it is a better movie i love the original night of the living dead

[36:13] however i do think that the tom sweeney remake is underrated

[36:17] it caught a lot of flack because it was remaking a uh... seminal zombie

[36:24] sure it's a movie that was unjustly canonized by people so people attack like how dare you why would you remake this

[36:31] i was not saying

[36:32] well i think dan what you're saying is that

[36:36] it's not a very good movie you don't care for it well remember that simon also hates halloween

[36:42] i'm not talking about halloween you're going to start fucking defending dario argento movies

[36:47] and don't look now and i'm going to beat you to death

[36:50] you know for a fact that i do not like dario argento movies the original halloween is very very very bad

[36:54] i don't want to talk about it it's making me upset simon let's move on

[36:58] i was promised a twist ending if i'm not mistaken

[37:01] i was going to come to that twist ending

[37:04] well the twist ending is this

[37:06] friends

[37:07] we're all werewolves

[37:09] wait a minute i'm a fucking werewolf really

[37:12] you didn't see that coming did you

[37:13] i fucking totally didn't when do i transform

[37:15] why have i been eating all these silver bullets then

[37:18] silly shit she's going to die quick call a werewolf doctor

[37:21] eating silver bullets is perfectly fine

[37:24] however if someone had thrown a silver bullet at you

[37:27] it's like trying to get it into your mouth like a piece of popcorn

[37:30] and it would have hit you in the chest

[37:33] it would have killed you you would have died

[37:35] so i don't need to go to the werewolf doctor

[37:37] no good close one that was a fucking close call

[37:40] wait wait did you turn us into werewolves or have we just always been werewolves

[37:44] no we've been werewolves the whole time

[37:46] oh god i fucking love twist endings

[37:49] oh there's so much fun isn't it fun to learn you're a fucking werewolf

[37:53] now i'm thinking about like earlier on the night when i was like

[37:56] man wouldn't it be weird if i was a werewolf

[37:59] right i'm remembering that time that i turned into a werewolf and killed that fucking kid

[38:03] you're like holy shit it's all falling into place just like you saw

[38:07] but what you don't realize is right now there are podcast listeners across america

[38:11] who are tearing their earbuds out of their ears in horror

[38:15] because they can't believe like they were werewolves the whole time

[38:18] they're being totally spooked out by the fact that they've been listening to three werewolves talk about it

[38:22] those guys are werewolves werewolves werewolves

[38:25] your father was killed by a werewolf werewolf werewolf

[38:28] these guys are werewolves werewolves

[38:30] oh god the nightmare

[38:32] close up on the eyes

[38:36] zoom in on the anti werewolf literature in his head

[38:40] and then he pulls back and there's like one of those swirling spirals behind his head

[38:44] and he's gripping his head in madness

[38:47] madness

[38:49] then he swirls into the middle of the swirl

[38:51] a swirl looking very similar to the cheeks of the doll in the saw movies

[38:55] weird

[38:57] full circle

[38:59] good times

[39:01] hey should we talk about that fucking really nice thing you showed me

[39:04] that thing for that guy

[39:06] that one fucking thing on the internet

[39:08] he's talking about that good compliment he received from our fan

[39:12] we want to shout out to our one fan

[39:14] yeah what's the cat's name

[39:16] Aaron

[39:18] that's pretty cool

[39:20] we're probably getting your name wrong

[39:22] thanks bro

[39:24] I appreciate it

[39:26] I hope everything is going great in Canada

[39:28] I hope that no werewolves attack you up in Canada

[39:30] why don't you send us some Canadian money

[39:32] because as I understand it

[39:34] that's where the future lies

[39:36] yes your currency is valued substantially higher than our own

[39:38] so fucking enjoy that

[39:40] enjoy your increased buying power

[39:42] speaking of the future

[39:44] very soon there's going to be a little movie

[39:46] well movie released

[39:48] in theaters

[39:50] called saw 4

[39:52] oh you damn good news

[39:54] the thing is that all

[39:56] any complaints that I have

[39:58] probably once the fourth film is released

[40:00] that movie will probably

[40:02] be released

[40:04] on the 4th

[40:06] on the 4th

[40:08] on the 4th

[40:10] on the 4th

[40:00] clear up any confusion that we had and when looking back at the trilogy we'll be like

[40:04] oh that's why they were just shitty and full of torture and bullshit. You know what Stu?

[40:09] Thanks for bringing it home. You know what? So often I think that what are these little

[40:13] experiments of Barthes have lacked is just like a really wise figure, a voice of wisdom.

[40:18] Because you know what? I'm sure the fourth saw it probably will be like oh man so I really

[40:24] harshly misjudged those other ones. You know I kind of view myself as one of those voice

[40:28] of wisdom like Obi-Wan Kenobi type characters. You sure like Obi-Wan Kenobi? You're like

[40:31] a really like respected like grandfatherly figure. Thanks doctor and doctor math magician.

[40:36] I fucked that joke up. Burn. Edit that out. No don't edit it. Leave it in. It's a good

[40:41] burn. So next time I believe we will be watching, if I'm not wrong, Perfect Stranger? Yeah.

[40:46] Well, do we want to watch the horror movie or do we want to watch Perfect Stranger? Let's

[40:49] not. First of all Perfect Stranger is a horror movie. I got it off the horror section. So

[40:53] Perfect Stranger next week. I just want to mention that you can visit us on the web by

[40:57] going to theflophousepodcast.blogspot.com or send us an email at theflophousepodcast

[41:07] at gmail.com and if we get a good message we may respond during the podcast. Also if

[41:14] you go to the website and you have a little time click on the link on the side and vote

[41:18] for us at podcast alley. Let other people know that you like the show or click on the

[41:24] link and write a review in iTunes. Check out how much we suck. Or recommend a movie for

[41:29] us to watch in future flops. That would be good. So we had a lot of laughs but I think

[41:35] it's about that time. The flop house is receding in our cars. It's getting smaller and smaller

[41:43] in our rear view mirror. And so as we wave goodbye I would like to say. Goodbye Jerk

[41:48] Town. Goodbye Like Town. Goodbye Podcast. My name is Dan McCoy. My name is Simon Fisher.

[41:56] And I'm Stuart Wellington. Good night. Good night. Dude by the way I'm the one who sounds

[42:01] like Humpty. It's not Simon. Simon sounds like a loud asshole. Yeah. I'd like to point

[42:11] out that you can visit the show online at www. Wait. Hold on. It's okay. Just type in.

[42:17] Just go to your computer. Just go to your computer and type in the internet. This is

[42:21] all I'm going to get. And then the fucking. No. No. Because that was a good joke about

[42:24] the internet. Leave that in. You're really committed to like naming which jokes are good

[42:31] at the time. I know. Because I feel really good about them sometimes. Okay. So you go

[42:36] onto the Webernet. And what would you have to push Dan? You'd put in HTTP. HTTP colon

[42:45] slash slash www dot. No. There's no www. That was what fucked me up. Oh shit. Blogspot

[42:52] dot blog channel. Hold on. It's blogspot dot blogspot. No one talk for a little bit.

The Flop House: Episode Five - Saw III

Transcript

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