The Flop House: Episode #26 - 88 Minutes

Dan McCoy

[0:00] On this episode of the Flophouse, we discuss the surprisingly long 88 minutes.

[0:30] Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Flophouse.

[0:34] I'm Dan McCoy.

[0:35] I'm Elliot Kalin.

[0:37] And Stuart Wellington is not here.

[0:40] Boo!

[0:41] Yeah, that jerk.

Elliott Kalan

[0:43] No, I mean, boo, like, I wish he was here.

[0:46] Sure, that as well.

Dan McCoy

[0:47] But unlike other times when he's absent, we don't have a special guest.

[0:53] Boo!

[0:54] Yeah.

[0:54] We tried.

[0:55] We tried.

[0:56] Everyone was busy.

[0:57] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[0:58] Apparently people were too excited about us leaving off their hangovers from last night's election.

Dan McCoy

[1:04] Yeah.

[1:05] We are recording this a mere day after Barack Obama was elected president of the United States.

[1:13] Elliot, Barack Obama appeared on The Daily Show the week before the election.

[1:18] So would you like to take this opportunity to take credit for his win?

Elliott Kalan

[1:22] Yes.

[1:23] All right.

[1:23] Actually, I'd like to take credit for his win because of the fist bump that I shared with him about a year ago, I guess.

[1:30] Right.

[1:31] When he came.

[1:31] He was a guest via satellite last week, but he was a guest in person quite some time ago.

[1:37] And due to a mishap involving a bag of Doritos that I won't get into here, we were unable to shake hands.

[1:43] And so we fist bumped instead.

[1:45] Right.

[1:45] And I think I gave him.

[1:47] You think you taught him to fist bump.

[1:49] At that end, I think just I gave him the power to win presidential elections through my fist.

Dan McCoy

[1:54] Or through the Doritos dust that was on your hand.

[1:57] Yes.

[1:57] Maybe it was radioactive Doritos dust.

Elliott Kalan

[1:59] The Doritos dust that made it impossible for me to shake his hand because I had not washed my hands since I had eaten a bag of Doritos.

[2:06] Yeah.

[2:06] I must have looked like the biggest slob in the world because I was literally standing at the end of a line of people waiting to shake his hand.

[2:12] And I'm just sitting there stuffing Doritos into my face as he makes his way down the line.

[2:17] Yeah.

[2:17] It was just like the Mr. Bean when the queen or the queen mother is going to the movie theater that he works at.

[2:22] And he's literally like trying to fix his fly while she slowly works his way down the line.

[2:26] So I like finished the Doritos.

[2:28] And I was like, oh, no, I got Doritos dust all over my hands looking around for napkins and didn't, you know.

Dan McCoy

[2:32] That makes it so much worse because before I had pictured the story like, you know, you're in the editing bay or something.

[2:38] You're eating Doritos.

[2:39] He stopped by.

[2:40] You exit the room and people are leading him out.

[2:45] And they're like, oh, Elliot, you know, say hello to Senator Obama.

[2:48] Nope.

[2:48] And you're like, oh.

Elliott Kalan

[2:49] I knew very well that I was going to be shaking his hand still.

Dan McCoy

[2:52] You had plenty of time to rectify the situation.

[2:54] Couldn't.

[2:54] Maybe dust it off on your pants.

Elliott Kalan

[2:56] Couldn't resist the siren song of Doritos.

[2:59] And then I didn't have enough time to clean my hands thoroughly.

Dan McCoy

[3:01] Well, but now the thing is like this improves your anecdote tremendously.

[3:06] You're going to be telling your grandchildren, yes, the first black president.

[3:09] I was unable to shake his hand.

[3:11] Because of the Doritos.

[3:13] In fact, you should probably get an endorsement deal from Doritos.

Elliott Kalan

[3:15] I wish that Doritos had a series of commercials called Doritos Stories.

[3:19] And I could tell that one.

[3:21] And they'd pay me in Doritos.

[3:22] The same way I've actually fantasized recently about someday if I am famous doing ads for Popeye's fried chicken because I love their products so much.

[3:30] It's true.

[3:31] And just doing ads for like, hey, I'm Elliot Kalin.

[3:34] Oh, this is great chicken.

[3:35] And I'm saying that because I really believe in it.

Dan McCoy

[3:37] Well, I think I want to tell all the audience members out there.

Elliott Kalan

[3:39] And I feel like I would ask for a deal where I could walk into any Popeye's and eat for free whenever I wanted.

[3:44] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[3:44] Well, I think the only reason that Elliot continues to do this show as he rockets to success is that I live mere blocks away from a Popeye's.

[3:55] And every time before the movie he comes in with a box of Popeye's.

[3:59] So Doritos and Popeye's, both of you, if you're listening, we are not too proud to take your sponsorship money.

Elliott Kalan

[4:04] Don't give up on this endorsement opportunity.

[4:06] Yeah.

[4:07] We are listening to by fives of people.

Dan McCoy

[4:10] I think it's in part Stuart's absence, in part the film that we watched.

[4:16] I feel like we're having a little effort.

[4:17] A little drag down, yeah.

[4:19] Getting into it.

Elliott Kalan

[4:20] Stuart definitely would have helped because he's full of energy and hilarious sayings.

[4:24] And also, like, he'd probably do something crazy or silly, you know, or say something filthy.

[4:29] Yeah.

[4:29] He'd probably do a dance.

Dan McCoy

[4:30] He'd probably do the real Ghostbusters dance.

Elliott Kalan

[4:33] He'd be like, hey, dudes, well, this movie wasn't so good, was it?

[4:37] You know, and so forth.

[4:39] He modulates his voice a lot when he talks.

Dan McCoy

[4:42] Yeah, but much lower than that.

[4:43] Listen.

[4:44] You think yours is, like, really foppy, like, so dudes, 88 Minutes.

[4:49] 88 Minutes is the most awesome movie ever.

Elliott Kalan

[4:52] Was it just me, or did that movie suck?

[4:54] You know what I'm saying?

[4:55] Again.

[4:55] My impression is not very good.

[4:58] More of, like, a Paul Lynde sort of Stuart.

[5:00] No, that doesn't sound anything like Paul Lynde.

[5:02] But, yeah, Stuart's not here to end.

[5:04] And the movie itself was, this is a movie we were both very excited to do on the show, 88 Minutes, starring Al Pacino.

[5:09] God sakes, why?

[5:10] I think there was something about the fact that it stars Al Pacino, a once great actor who has let himself fall apart in terms of, not even in terms of, like, his life is fine, but in terms of not caring anymore.

[5:21] Well, I mean, we don't know.

[5:22] Yeah, but it's not like, you know, William Holden or Marlon Brando or something.

[5:27] Like an actor who had serious emotional or, you know, addictive problems, and his life kind of fell apart a little bit.

[5:33] Or Michael Moriarty who moved to Canada and opened up a piano bar.

[5:37] Yeah, exactly.

[5:38] I guess.

[5:39] But this is Al Pacino who still is incredibly well respected, could do any movie he wanted.

[5:45] He's a man who, or at one point, now I feel like he can no longer open a movie and guarantee success.

[5:51] And also the movie had the gimmick that part of it at least was supposed to be told in real time.

[5:57] Al Pacino's character is called by her serial killer and told he only has 88 minutes to live.

[6:02] And then in theory it's real time from that point on.

[6:04] Right.

Dan McCoy

[6:05] Well, let's look.

Elliott Kalan

[6:05] And also there was the semen transference note.

[6:08] Yeah.

[6:08] But even that wasn't a big major plot point.

[6:10] We'll get to that part.

Dan McCoy

[6:11] Let's make it clear, though, for viewers who may be interested in watching this film.

[6:16] Say that you have 88 minutes before your tickets to Mamma Mia on Broadway.

Elliott Kalan

[6:23] You're taking your lady friend to a show and she's like, oh, I'll be ready in just a minute.

[6:28] And you know that means 88 minutes.

[6:30] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[6:30] From personal experience, you know that she takes exactly 88 minutes.

[6:33] Exactly.

[6:34] To pretty herself up.

[6:35] And you're like, oh, I can pop in 88 minutes starring Al Pacino.

[6:38] No, you can't.

[6:39] Yeah.

[6:39] Put in one of the old universal horror movies.

[6:41] They're all around 80 minutes.

Elliott Kalan

[6:43] Or read a book.

[6:45] You know, do something else.

Dan McCoy

[6:46] This film is actually an hour and 40 minutes long.

Elliott Kalan

[6:49] I have to say that.

[6:50] And long at that.

[6:51] At that.

[6:52] If it was 88 minutes long, it would have been a better movie.

[6:55] But nowhere.

[6:56] It would have been about as incoherent as it is right now.

Dan McCoy

[6:59] Let's also make it clear that this is no High Noon.

[7:02] This is also no Nick of Time starring Johnny Depp.

[7:06] Or Snake Eyes.

[7:07] Yeah, the real-time component of it is massaged.

Elliott Kalan

[7:12] It's the kind of movie where it's supposed to be.

[7:15] The killer says, like, you have 65 minutes to live.

[7:18] And then Al Pacino gets in the cab and says, I've got to drive across town.

[7:21] You cut to him on the other side of town.

[7:23] Right.

[7:24] And then the guy, and it'll be five minutes later in screen time.

[7:27] And the killer will go, you have 60 minutes to live.

[7:29] It's like, wow, he got across Seattle in record time.

[7:32] I don't know how big Seattle is, but I assume it takes more than a cut worth of time.

[7:36] Like 20 seconds.

[7:37] Five seconds, you know.

[7:38] Dan, are you all right?

[7:38] It was like 88 minutes.

[7:39] It really took you down a couple notches.

Dan McCoy

[7:41] It really did.

Elliott Kalan

[7:43] Maybe we should just pop in the Bratz movie and enjoy ourselves.

[7:46] Would you like me to explain the plot of the film, Dan?

Dan McCoy

[7:48] Yeah, go through it.

[7:49] Why don't you?

Elliott Kalan

[7:50] Al Pacino is famous forensic psychologist Jack Graham, who's a college professor and is,

[7:57] as I mentioned, a famous forensic psychologist professor.

[8:00] So we're in a fantasy world already.

[8:02] Who is most famous for putting away a man named John Forster on death row, who supposedly hangs

[8:09] women from pulley systems and then kills them and tortures them.

[8:13] But, like, there's only circumstantial evidence plus the word of the famous Jack Graham to put

[8:19] him away.

[8:20] So there's questions about maybe this guy was actually innocent.

[8:24] He's about to be – it's the day of his execution.

[8:26] He's scheduled to be executed.

[8:28] And MSNBC is running a, what, four-hour-long live interview?

[8:32] I don't know.

[8:33] It's a live broadcast.

[8:35] This is a movie where – here's if I – and maybe I missed something, but it seems that

[8:38] Al Pacino goes to his apartment, goes through his TiVo listings, chooses the interview on

[8:43] MSNBC, presses play, and then a little later calls into the interview as if it's still going

[8:49] – this is that, like – it's as if time stopped and doesn't restart again until he

[8:53] selects it on his TiVo and he can call in.

[8:56] But anyway, it's the day of the execution and people who are close to Al Pacino start

[9:01] dying and he gets a phone call, a mysterious phone call in that stupid serial killer fake

[9:07] voice that everything uses now.

[9:09] You have 88 minutes to live, tick-tock doc.

Dan McCoy

[9:12] Tick-tock doc.

Elliott Kalan

[9:13] You have 88 minutes to live, blah, blah, blah.

[9:15] And then – so he suspects everybody.

[9:17] He's a college professor now, so he walks into his class and immediately starts berating

[9:21] the students.

[9:21] Yeah.

[9:22] Assuming that one of them is the killer.

[9:24] And it goes on from there and makes less and less sense as it goes on.

Dan McCoy

[9:27] One thing that really sort of bugged me about this film was the fact that Al Pacino immediately

[9:32] takes this call at face value.

[9:35] There's no – there's no beat where he's like, what?

[9:38] That's weird.

[9:39] Well, probably a crank call and then something happens to prove –

[9:43] I am a famous forensic psychologist, Dr. Jack Graham.

[9:46] Yeah, no, instead he immediately walks into class and starts like looking – like searching

[9:52] the students' faces and like ripping cell phones from their hands.

Elliott Kalan

[9:56] He does everything short of hold a newspaper in front of his face with eye holes cut out

[10:01] and just watch people through it.

Dan McCoy

[10:03] And I sort of also wonder, you know, if that's true, why is he still teaching his class if

[10:09] he's going to take it at face value?

[10:10] And this is what I was trying to remember before is that this movie is real time in so much

[10:15] as they show a lot of unnecessary in-between steps.

[10:19] Like once the 88 minute starts, it's like, well, we're going to follow him as he goes

[10:23] through every component of his day.

[10:25] Now he's teaching his class.

[10:27] Now he's driving back.

[10:28] Now he and his TA are going back home.

Elliott Kalan

[10:31] He and his TA, played by Alicia Witt, spent a lot of time –

[10:34] The lovely Alicia Witt.

[10:35] Spent a lot of time hanging out in his apartment.

[10:37] And it reminded me of Ringu, the original Japanese version of – or I guess the feature

[10:42] film Japanese version of The Ring, not the – I guess there had been like a direct-to-video

[10:47] version before that and this was a remake of it.

[10:48] But anyway, the one that was remade in the United States where they get the phone – they

[10:52] watch the video.

[10:53] They get the phone call that says, you have seven days to live.

[10:55] And they're like, oh my god.

[10:57] Oh, well, I guess I'll start figuring this out tomorrow.

[11:00] Seven days.

[11:01] Well, I should rest up.

[11:03] Yeah.

[11:03] Later in the movie, it's like, well, we've got two days left to live.

[11:06] Let's go down to the library and research this.

[11:09] And it's like, oh, six o'clock, library's closing.

Dan McCoy

[11:11] Ah, let's call it a day.

[11:13] All right.

[11:14] They aren't God, Elliot.

[11:15] They can't do the world in seven days.

[11:17] No, but there's –

[11:18] They're going to take it a little slow.

Elliott Kalan

[11:19] There's, let's say, a lack of intensity or lack of believable anxiety.

Dan McCoy

[11:24] If Al Pacino is to believe that –

[11:27] If we are to believe that Al Pacino –

[11:30] If he thinks that someone's killing him, that's when the movie should kick into drive.

[11:34] Let's take this out on the road.

Elliott Kalan

[11:35] But instead it kind of ambles around for a while.

[11:37] It kicks into drive pretty quickly, and then it has a very long flabby section in the middle.

[11:42] And then his car blows up, and suddenly things get kicked into crazy overdrive where nothing makes sense.

Dan McCoy

[11:47] It makes no sense to the degree that I have a hard time sort of picking out what I want to talk about.

Elliott Kalan

[11:53] Well, it's the fact that the killer, who is a human being without magical powers, seems to be in several places at once all the time.

[12:02] Yeah, that's true.

[12:03] Like they're just ahead of Al Pacino.

[12:05] They're breaking into Al Pacino's apartment.

[12:07] They're also across town killing someone.

[12:10] They're setting up an elaborate pulley system in a public building that no one sees, making – and then arranging for someone else to make a phone call.

[12:18] And it's just – it doesn't –

[12:19] Yeah, well, all right.

[12:20] It's like there's an army of killers, and there's this – and there's a ridiculous red herring that goes on forever with Alisha Witt's ex-husband Guy LaForge, which is a hilarious name.

Dan McCoy

[12:33] The famous French-Canadian trapper Guy LaForge.

Elliott Kalan

[12:37] But it's also like they're being chased by a man in – or by some figure in black leather outfit who's wearing a motorcycle helmet.

[12:45] And she goes, that's Guy.

[12:46] It has to be.

[12:47] Really?

[12:48] Really? Okay. I guess no one else has ever dressed like that.

Dan McCoy

[12:51] Yeah.

[12:51] This is the only guy in Seattle who dresses like that.

[12:53] She's never seen a motorcyclist before.

[12:56] That's what you've got to realize.

[12:57] Oh, I see.

[12:58] In Seattle, there's only two motorcyclists.

[13:01] Yeah, one thing about the whole being everywhere thing is the whole setup of this movie requires the guy to continually be making phone calls to Al Pacino and be like,

[13:13] 88 minutes, 79 minutes, 76 minutes, 69 minutes.

[13:20] And Al Pacino will get messages scrawled on his overhead projector at class or then keyed into his car's paint job.

[13:32] And you have to wonder, like, how does the murderer know that Al Pacino is going to go down and get into his car at the exact 72-minute mark?

Elliott Kalan

[13:40] Because maybe he took a different route to get to the parking garage.

[13:44] And he looks and goes, 72 minutes?

[13:47] According to my watch, I've only got 68 minutes.

[13:48] This is great.

[13:49] I got some time back.

[13:50] And the killer is, like, watching from afar and slaps her forehead and goes, no, he's not getting the message properly.

[13:56] Ah!

[13:56] I gave away that the killer was a woman.

Dan McCoy

[13:59] Yeah, well, I was about to give it away because there's a scene where Lili Sobieski, right before that, actually, or right after, in the parking garage, gets beat up.

[14:11] And later on it's revealed that she's beat herself up to throw suspicion off of herself that was not there in the first place.

[14:19] And Al Pacino, you know, she's like, oh, I can't believe I let the killer get away.

[14:23] That was so stupid of me.

[14:25] And Al Pacino goes, don't beat yourself up.

[14:28] And then he says it again.

[14:29] As if, in case you didn't catch it the first time.

[14:32] Foreshadowing.

[14:32] Don't beat yourself up about it.

[14:34] This movie is nothing if not thorough in reiterating things.

[14:38] There's several lines of dialogue that just basically repeat the same thing over and over in different permutations of the sentence structure.

Elliott Kalan

[14:46] You also see multiple, you see the same flashback of a celebration at a bar over and over again.

[14:52] Right.

[14:52] With no new information being added every time.

[14:55] And at the end, it's one of those movies where there's a showdown between the hero and the villain in which it's made pretty clear what's going on.

[15:01] And then the hero has a phone call with somebody else in which he goes over what the plot of the movie was.

[15:07] Audience.

Dan McCoy

[15:08] We know that this movie was pretty crazy and unbelievable.

Elliott Kalan

[15:13] You're probably having a hard time keeping track.

[15:14] This is kind of like Synecidic New York.

[15:17] It's kind of hard to keep track of the first time you watch it.

[15:20] So let's explain it.

Dan McCoy

[15:20] I was watching it and I'm like, all right, movie.

[15:24] Yes, this movie was crazy and it had a lot of twists.

[15:26] But that doesn't mean I didn't understand it.

[15:28] It just means it was dumb.

[15:29] It just means it didn't make any sense.

[15:30] It also doesn't make any sense.

Elliott Kalan

[15:31] Yeah, there's no sense to it.

[15:33] And even for like a fun, stupid movie, it's not fun.

[15:37] It's just stupid.

[15:38] It just doesn't make – it doesn't make enough sense that you're intrigued and want to know what's going on.

[15:43] And the whole thing is so – like there's this very seedy undercurrent to it.

[15:46] There's a lot of women's bodies hanging from ceilings.

Dan McCoy

[15:49] Yeah, well, like the first nude woman we see in the film is doing like this crazy –

Elliott Kalan

[15:53] She's standing up nude brushing her teeth with – holding one leg up in the air.

[15:57] Yeah.

[15:58] Standing on one leg and –

Dan McCoy

[15:59] I'm willing to believe there are women out there who would do that except for the teeth brushing.

[16:04] Like maybe they're stretching in the morning like, you know, I'm naked.

[16:08] I'm doing a little yoga.

[16:10] I'm really like, you know, I'm just going to air everything out.

[16:14] But also to brush your teeth.

[16:15] That's multitasking gone amok.

Elliott Kalan

[16:17] But even that like there's this – like there's a part where it's revealed that Al Pacino's assistant, this woman, it was me.

[16:24] I accidentally helped the killer because I got drunk and she seduced me and we made out in your office.

[16:29] And it was like, wait a minute.

[16:30] I didn't even know this character was a lesbian.

[16:33] I didn't – I don't – it comes –

[16:34] It's not important, Elliot.

[16:35] But it comes out of –

[16:36] It's not important.

[16:36] It comes out of nowhere.

[16:37] And it's one of those things where it's like that's kind of seedy but also like how was I supposed to put two and two together on that one when I don't even know –

[16:45] I didn't even know that these characters knew each other.

Dan McCoy

[16:46] The movie was like, we don't have – we haven't had a close-up on a woman's panty-clad ass as she hangs from the ceiling for a while.

[16:54] Let's have some casual, pointless lesbianism thrown in.

Elliott Kalan

[16:59] Yeah, but also like –

[16:59] But it's like it's a movie where you can tell Lili Sobieski is the villain at the end because her hair is much more wild and disheveled than it was earlier in the film.

[17:07] I guess they did –

[17:08] That's good directing.

Dan McCoy

[17:09] They did foreshadow that Lili Sobieski was a lesbian because as you pointed out, she was dressed like Annie Hall in the class.

Elliott Kalan

[17:15] I hadn't even thought of that.

[17:16] That's right.

[17:16] Yeah.

[17:16] She's wearing a tie and a vest and a shirt which of course means if this is 1952, she must be a lesbian.

Dan McCoy

[17:24] Except for she was also in love with the killer on death row.

[17:28] That's true.

Elliott Kalan

[17:29] I guess she was just playing lesbianism to get to the information she needed.

[17:35] It's never quite clear if she's in love with the killer on death row or if she's just enthralled to him in some way.

[17:40] It's a movie that if like – if they established at the beginning of the movie that mind control and hypnotism existed in the world of 88 minutes, the movie would make a lot more sense and would be much easier to take.

Dan McCoy

[17:50] But this movie, oh man, a lot of style, huh?

[17:53] It is.

[17:54] Wow.

[17:55] Stylistic flourishes.

Elliott Kalan

[17:56] It's a movie that has a lot of cracks in the foundation of the story and they said let's plaster over this with a lot of unnecessary camera moves.

Dan McCoy

[18:03] A lot of zooming in, a lot of slow-mo.

Elliott Kalan

[18:06] The best thing is that Al Pacino remembers his – his backstory is that his young sister, when he was 28 and she was 12, which is quite a gap in ages, his young sister was murdered.

[18:17] So now he's trying to get revenge, I guess, against the idea of murder.

[18:21] But –

Dan McCoy

[18:21] Yeah, I was so angry at that like long monologue because no one in movies goes into a field just because they were interested in it or they had a talent for it.

[18:33] No, they need an inciting incident.

[18:34] It's all based on a childhood trauma.

[18:35] And yeah, Al Pacino's young sister was killed by a serial killer.

[18:40] So now he hunts serial killers.

Elliott Kalan

[18:43] But when he remembers her, his memories are shown as if I guess they're like 16 millimeter film from the 70s.

[18:50] There's a lot of like scratches and a kind of –

[18:53] Occasionally there's like a double image.

[18:55] Yeah, double image, a general yellowish color filter.

[18:58] But it's as – Al Pacino's so old that he's remembering in a film stock that is no longer used.

Dan McCoy

[19:04] Yeah, well, you know, back in that time, 8 millimeter film was how people made memories.

Elliott Kalan

[19:09] It also – yeah, it didn't help that they showed a picture that's supposed to be him with his sister when he was young.

[19:15] And it's like they used a picture of young Al Pacino.

Dan McCoy

[19:18] And it's like, oh, that's what he looked like when he made good movies.

Elliott Kalan

[19:21] Yeah.

[19:22] That's what he looked like when he made Serpico and Dog Day Afternoon.

[19:25] Oh, sorry.

[19:27] Oh, and also he likes driving his own car for some reason.

[19:29] His car gets blown up and he goes up to a cab driver and he goes, listen, I want to drive your cab across town.

[19:35] I'll give you $100.

[19:37] And then the rest of the movie is him driving this cab driver – driving this cab around while the cab driver sits in the backseat.

Dan McCoy

[19:43] Yeah, and you wonder why, you know, if he's going to rent the cab, he can just pay the cab driver.

[19:49] Like why does he need to be in charge?

[19:50] It's not like he's even driving like super fast.

[19:53] No, there's no stunts.

[19:54] Like the cab driver's like, I'm not going to break the law.

[19:56] I'm fine.

[19:57] I'll rent the cab.

[19:58] You get in the back.

[19:58] And no, he's just like driving sensibly around town.

[20:02] And more than that, there's a scene towards the end, my wife pointed out, there's a scene where he's sitting at a red light.

[20:08] It turns green and he's like – all the cars go around him because he's transfixed.

[20:12] He's putting the pieces together.

[20:14] He's looking at a file.

[20:15] He's making some sort of revelation that I actually could not follow what he was putting together.

[20:18] Something about someone using an alias for something.

[20:21] Yeah, but there's clearly just him alone in the car.

[20:24] There's no one in the backseat.

[20:25] He drives to the rendezvous with the killer and he runs out and the cab driver gets out of the back and he's like,

Elliott Kalan

[20:31] hey, is it all done yet?

[20:33] Do you need me anymore?

Dan McCoy

[20:35] And you're like, well, is he taking a nap in the back?

[20:38] Was he in the trunk?

[20:39] He's sleeping in the backseat.

Elliott Kalan

[20:40] I've always wondered what it would be like to drive around in the trunk of this thing.

Dan McCoy

[20:44] As long as you're going to take over.

[20:46] Heck, seems like a good time.

Elliott Kalan

[20:48] There's another character in it who is Al Pacino's, I guess, police contact, who is – it's one of those things where it's like,

[20:56] I'm going to have to arrest you.

[20:57] Your fingerprints and DNA are all over the bodies.

[21:00] You've got access and motive.

[21:01] You know everyone who was killed.

[21:02] We found your belongings on the scene of the crime and your signature.

Dan McCoy

[21:07] Wait, no.

[21:07] And your semen was in her vaginal canal, as you said.

Elliott Kalan

[21:10] And your semen was in her vaginal canal.

[21:12] And Al Pacino goes, don't you see it's a frame-up?

[21:15] Give me ten minutes.

[21:16] And the guy goes, okay.

[21:18] It's elementary police work.

[21:20] Come on.

[21:21] It's a classic frame job.

[21:22] They teach us at the academy, if it looks like an airtight case, there's probably a problem with it.

[21:28] So give the guy extra time.

[21:30] And it also – it's implied, I guess, that Al Pacino was set up to have sex with a woman.

[21:35] Then they killed her, removed his semen from her body, and injected it into another dead body to implicate him in that murder, too.

[21:43] Yeah, two murders.

Dan McCoy

[21:44] He's like two murders for the price of one semen.

Elliott Kalan

[21:46] This is something that's brought up almost casually in conversation and then dropped.

[21:51] And it's such a horrific idea.

[21:52] I'm just like, there's something so disgusting about it.

[21:55] And it's like, no, let's just throw it in the script.

[21:57] Whatever.

Dan McCoy

[21:57] And again, that was also a development that happens at the hour 20-minute mark.

[22:03] Likewise –

Elliott Kalan

[22:03] The audience is getting tired.

[22:05] We've got to wake him up.

Dan McCoy

[22:05] Put some semen in there.

[22:06] Well, but he doesn't even get accused of these murders until the hour mark.

[22:11] And I'm like, shouldn't this have happened way earlier in the film to add a little more urgency?

[22:16] I mean, I know that he's going to be killed in 88 minutes, apparently.

[22:19] And that should add enough urgency.

[22:20] But not the way he's wandering around.

[22:21] Apparently, we need another shuttle.

[22:23] That's the other thing.

Elliott Kalan

[22:23] The killer stops calling him after a while.

[22:26] It's almost like the movie forgets about the 88 minutes thing until later on.

[22:30] And then it just turns out that the killer arranges a rendezvous with Al Pacino and then waits for the countdown to get to zero.

[22:36] And then it's just going to shoot him.

[22:37] It's not like he's been injected with a poison that goes on off in 88 minutes.

[22:41] There's no bomb set to go off in 88 minutes.

Dan McCoy

[22:43] It's not, as you pointed out, Crank.

[22:45] He hasn't been given the Hong Kong cocktail.

[22:47] And his heart's going to explode or whatever.

Elliott Kalan

[22:50] There's really no reason for the 88-minute deadline to be there.

[22:53] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[22:53] As you pointed out, her plan would have gone a lot easier if she just warned him at the top.

[22:59] Like, you've got 88 minutes to live.

[23:00] Left him alone.

[23:01] And then an 88-minute mark came up and shot him.

Elliott Kalan

[23:05] The end.

[23:06] What she really wants is a confession from him that he committed perjury and that the guy in death row is probably innocent.

[23:12] But she accomplishes this through a series of mysterious murders and crazy clues.

[23:17] And, like, her plan would have been that much harder for him to figure out and that much easier for her to get the information if she didn't go around murdering random people that he knew and then placing his DNA all over.

[23:28] It's like, she's like, I'll get him arrested, thrown in jail, and then I'll have access to him to get this taped confession.

[23:35] No, that's not really how it works.

Dan McCoy

[23:36] Yeah, I guess that she was like, okay, I can't just go up to him and threaten him to get this taped confession because then clearly...

Elliott Kalan

[23:43] I better spin a web of deceit.

Dan McCoy

[23:46] But then she's like, I've got to discredit him, implicate him as a murderer, then kill him.

[23:53] Like, it seems like...

[23:54] It's not a well-thought-out plan.

[23:55] If you discredited him as a...

[23:57] Is his confession worth anything?

[23:59] Like, I don't know.

[24:01] It's not a mastermind plan.

Elliott Kalan

[24:03] I wish Stuart was here to answer these thorny legal problems.

Dan McCoy

[24:06] Yeah.

[24:07] I was talking about how things are reiterated too much in this film.

[24:10] Like, things happen twice when they could have happened once.

[24:13] That's another issue I have with the climax of the film.

[24:17] Not once, but twice does Lili Usobieski have one of the red herring characters in the film call Al Pacino and confess that she's the person behind everything.

[24:28] He has Deborah Kara Unger's character who's like the dean of the school or something.

Elliott Kalan

[24:33] She's some kind of dean who's always wearing glasses that are way down on her nose.

[24:37] But it's also like, this is some school in Seattle that, with no ethical standards, because like Al Pacino and his law students, or criminal investigation students, whatever they're doing, they go to a bar to celebrate the fact that he led to a man's conviction.

[24:54] But the dean is also there, and the professor and his students are all drinking together and dancing, and then he goes home with one of them.

[25:00] And the dean is there, like, watching this.

[25:03] And she seems to have some sort of romantic anger over the whole thing.

[25:06] Like, it seems like a very unprofessional school, I guess is what I'm saying.

[25:11] If you want to take Jack Graham's class, just know he will come on to you.

Dan McCoy

[25:14] And he will grab your chest as he throws you to the ground to avoid a bomb going off in the car, as he does with Alicia Witt.

Elliott Kalan

[25:22] He was, Al Pacino was very clearly groping Alicia Witt at one point, it seems.

[25:26] But it bothered me, though.

Dan McCoy

[25:27] Like, Deborah Kara Unger's character, the killer had a call in with a false confession, and then she also had Alicia Witt call in with a false confession.

[25:35] Both of them to lure Al Pacino to the rendezvous point.

[25:38] I'm like, wouldn't one of them suffice?

Elliott Kalan

[25:40] Or even just the killer saying, Dr. Jack Graham, meet me at such and such place.

[25:44] You've got ten minutes to live.

[25:46] Tick tock.

[25:46] Because he wants to know who it is.

[25:47] Like, he'll just go there.

Dan McCoy

[25:49] I will reveal myself to you.

[25:51] Finally.

[25:52] This game of cat and mouse will end.

Elliott Kalan

[25:54] This game of cat calls mouse and mouse runs around for a while and then goes to his apartment and sits down for a little bit and watches TV.

[26:00] Yeah.

[26:02] Calls in to MSNBC to rant angrily.

[26:05] And they put up the picture on the screen that says Dr. Jack Graham.

[26:08] And as you said, it looks like they caught him coming out of a club in the middle of the night.

[26:12] Yeah.

[26:12] It's like a photo of early Sean Penn.

[26:16] The idea of a famous forensic psychologist, I guess, is one of the things that gets me.

[26:20] It's the same way that...

[26:21] It's like Roadhouse.

[26:22] Well, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[26:23] Famous bouncer.

Elliott Kalan

[26:24] Yeah.

[26:25] I think Mike Nelson writes a thing about that.

[26:27] Like, the idea of a famous bouncer doesn't make any sense in Roadhouse.

[26:32] And the same thing here, like, even the guy who wrote, like, Mindhunter.

[26:35] And, like, Silence of the Lambs was partly based on his experiences, whose name I don't remember at the moment.

[26:40] Like, even he is not so famous that everybody knows his name.

[26:44] Like, or that if he called into a TV show, they'd be like, oh, of course.

[26:47] Well, yes, the famous...

[26:48] Oh, yeah.

[26:49] Oh, you're known everywhere.

[26:50] This is...

[26:51] Oh, well, of course, Dr. Jack Graham.

Dan McCoy

[26:54] Oh, well, come right this way, sir.

Elliott Kalan

[26:55] He's like, I don't know, like, the way Henry Kissinger was a famous club goer and dated lots of movie stars when he was Secretary of State.

[27:04] Like, that, but he's a forensic psychologist.

Dan McCoy

[27:07] Yeah, with no actual power out in the world like Henry Kissinger.

Elliott Kalan

[27:11] He does have a badge that I guess says that he...

[27:12] Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac.

[27:15] That Dr. Kissinger stopped by for just a moment.

Dan McCoy

[27:18] I've got to go.

[27:19] I enjoyed watching 88 Minutes with you.

Elliott Kalan

[27:22] I think...

[27:23] Do you think, Dan, it would have been easier to watch 88 Minutes if we did?

[27:25] I didn't know that this is a new world with Barack Obama as president and we won't have to worry about movies like this anymore.

[27:32] I feel like this is part of the change that we can believe in is that 88 Minutes, there's not going to be nothing like this again.

[27:38] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[27:38] Well, for me, it was like, okay, Barack Obama's won.

[27:41] Yay.

[27:42] Hooray.

[27:42] Everything's wonderful.

[27:43] And then, like, I'm like, oh, no, no.

[27:45] I have to return to my normal life, which includes watching movies like 88 Minutes on purpose.

[27:50] I got to tell you, I was so...

[27:51] Or a voluntary podcast.

[27:53] I want to make that clear.

Elliott Kalan

[27:53] I was so excited about 88 Minutes and being as depressed about it as I am now, it makes

[27:58] me second...

[27:59] It makes me double-think my excitement about our eventual watching of Mr. McGoriam's Wonder

[28:03] Emporium, which is another one I've been very excited about.

[28:06] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[28:07] That's slated for December.

Elliott Kalan

[28:10] I'm really worried that there's going to be a scene where Natalie Portman confronts Dustin

[28:14] Hoffman about how his semen was found in a dead body in the back closet of their magical

[28:19] toy shop.

Dan McCoy

[28:20] I wanted to say just one last thing about this film, and that was, man, so many red

[28:25] herrings.

[28:26] It is full of red herrings.

[28:27] Full of red herring characters, including one security, campus security guy named, like,

[28:33] something DeFranco, I remember.

[28:34] I don't remember.

[28:35] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[28:35] And also a doorman who's just kind of goofy, who looks like he wandered in off the set

[28:39] of New Heart.

Dan McCoy

[28:40] But the campus security is like, it's like CTU on 24.

[28:44] Like, it's the most...

Elliott Kalan

[28:45] There's screens everywhere.

[28:46] Lots of, like, plexiglass, smoked glass partitions.

[28:50] But also, he's talking to the security guard, and the security guard's like, yeah, because

[28:53] they're setting him up as red herring.

[28:54] He's like, yeah, I'm going to go to the police academy, become a real cop, not have to take

[28:58] care of these snotty college kids, especially these rich bitches.

[29:01] And Pacino's like, yep, gotta go, and walks out and calls the police and asks them to

[29:05] look at this guy.

[29:06] But he's like, what kind of...

[29:07] Again, the security guard has so much rage about the people, the women that he has to

[29:12] protect.

Dan McCoy

[29:12] I appreciate the efficiency of that, though.

[29:14] Like, within two sentences, he says something potentially incriminating.

[29:20] Like, the anger comes floating to the surface.

Elliott Kalan

[29:22] But even, like, the suspicious doorman, they go to Al Pacino's building, he's like, where's

[29:26] so-and-so?

[29:27] His doorman's like, ah, he's not here.

[29:29] I'm a temp.

[29:30] Ah, there was a guy came by looking for you, dropped off a package.

[29:33] It's right here.

[29:34] Didn't leave his name, though.

[29:36] There's no return address on this.

[29:37] Yeah, I don't know.

[29:39] Like, why even bother with all the side...

[29:42] I'm surprised they didn't make the cab driver a suspicious character.

[29:46] I'm surprised they didn't have, like, his mailman come by and drop stuff off.

[29:49] Fresh direct...

[29:50] Delivering the mail.

[29:51] I don't remember ordering all this fresh direct.

[29:54] Ah, your name's right here on the order form.

[29:56] You don't want these kiwis?

Dan McCoy

[29:59] Here's a suspiciously large eggplant.

[30:04] I don't know what's in the eggplant in this scenario.

Elliott Kalan

[30:06] I can't wait to find out, though.

[30:07] In 88 minutes, too.

[30:10] 176 minutes.

[30:11] The eggplant protocol.

[30:13] Oh, I forgot how...

[30:14] Al Pacino, he's...

[30:15] As you mentioned while we were watching it, Al Pacino's performance is fairly...

[30:18] He's not overdoing it the way he does in, say, the devil's advocate.

[30:21] There's no hoo-ha-ing.

[30:22] He does have some yelling scenes, but they're not...

[30:24] It's like he's getting angry, so it makes sense.

[30:26] But at the end of the movie, there's like a flash of the Al Pacino we've come to know and love,

[30:30] where he's taunting the real killer on the phone.

[30:34] And he says to him, like,

[30:35] Your plan failed and now you're gonna die!

[30:37] And then he takes the phone and just throws it off the seventh floor of a building.

[30:41] Yeah.

[30:42] It's completely unnecessary.

[30:43] And you're like, wait, that's evidence!

[30:45] Yeah, the phone being the killer...

[30:47] Lily Sobieski's phone that she was using to contact the guy on death row.

[30:51] Yeah.

[30:52] A piece of evidence.

[30:53] But he just takes it and throws it off the balcony.

Dan McCoy

[30:55] Here's what I think of you, phone!

[30:57] I hope you can hear it landing.

[30:59] Yeah, and the other...

[31:00] Before we move on, and I want to...

[31:03] The other weird thing about this movie is it's...

[31:06] It's obsession with pulleys?

[31:07] I was gonna say this strange, like, pro-evidence tampering stance it takes.

[31:12] Because it turns out that, you know,

[31:14] Yes, Al Pacino tampered with the evidence to get a conviction.

[31:17] That's in the alternate ending.

[31:19] No, but they say that in the actual movie.

Elliott Kalan

[31:21] He makes his confession, but I feel like it's...

[31:23] That's under duress.

[31:24] You don't know.

Dan McCoy

[31:25] Well, alright.

[31:25] I think that they're making it clear that he...

Elliott Kalan

[31:28] Or he coached a witness, at least.

Dan McCoy

[31:30] Yeah.

[31:31] That he did at least something unethical to push this through.

[31:34] And we see that the killer is actually the killer.

[31:37] But then, like, the movie is making this justification, like,

[31:39] That's alright.

[31:40] As long as we're sure that the killer's the killer,

[31:43] We don't have to deal with the criminal justice system.

[31:46] And I'm like, wait, but the criminal justice system is there

Elliott Kalan

[31:49] Because we cannot be sure of these things.

[31:51] Nope.

[31:51] As long as we got Jack Graham watching out for us.

[31:54] The movie opens, by the way,

[31:55] We should have mentioned this, in the year 1997.

[31:57] And they...

[31:58] They really recreate the world of...

[32:00] As someone who lived through 1997,

[32:03] I really...

[32:04] I remember it well.

[32:05] Which is a newspaper with the headline,

[32:07] Princess Diana Dies.

Dan McCoy

[32:09] And a close-up on the date, 1997.

Elliott Kalan

[32:11] Close-up on the date.

[32:12] One of the characters says to the other,

[32:14] Who would want to kill Princess Di?

[32:16] And then they go to sleep,

[32:18] And one character's radio starts playing,

Dan McCoy

[32:20] Quit playing games with my heart.

Elliott Kalan

[32:23] With my heart.

[32:25] With my heart.

[32:26] And it was like, wow, we really are in 1997, aren't we?

[32:30] And then it goes nine years later,

[32:31] And, you know, we're in 2006, I guess.

Dan McCoy

[32:34] And it was really important that they really set the time.

[32:37] Remember 1997,

[32:38] When all those serial killers were running around?

Elliott Kalan

[32:40] Well, that's...

[32:40] Another thing that's great about it is like,

[32:41] Why nine years later?

[32:42] Really doesn't matter.

[32:44] Could have been three years.

[32:46] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[32:47] You can ask a lot of questions.

[32:48] It's just like that...

[32:49] Start that way.

[32:49] That two-year gap in the press.

[32:51] Why 88 minutes?

Elliott Kalan

[32:51] 88 minutes.

[32:52] So, Dan, are we going to do our ratings?

Dan McCoy

[32:55] Yeah, sure.

[32:55] Stuart's not here, but...

Elliott Kalan

[32:57] I feel confident he would say it was a bad, bad movie.

[32:59] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[32:59] Is this a good, bad movie?

[33:00] A bad, bad movie?

[33:01] Or a movie that you liked in some way?

[33:03] I'm going to say the first ten minutes

[33:05] and the last ten minutes

[33:07] were like great, crazy, bad movie.

[33:10] But, man, there's so much just boring stuff in between.

[33:12] I was really encouraged by the very beginning of this movie,

[33:16] which was just...

Elliott Kalan

[33:17] Which is balls-to-the-wall crazy.

[33:19] Yeah.

[33:19] It starts...

[33:21] You're introduced to two characters

[33:22] who are sisters who live together.

[33:24] Twin sisters.

[33:25] Twin sisters.

[33:26] All you know about them is they're sad that Princess Diana died.

[33:29] Suddenly, a killer arrives.

[33:31] There's a shot where someone

[33:32] turns around and the camera zooms towards their face

[33:35] as they see the killer.

[33:35] Then it cuts to a cat.

[33:37] Then it cuts to the other character.

[33:39] The exact same thing.

[33:40] Turns around, camera zooms towards their face,

[33:42] and then as they see the killer,

[33:44] and then cuts back to the cat again.

[33:45] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[33:46] They've each been strung up in close succession

[33:48] in the exact same sequence of shots.

Elliott Kalan

[33:51] What's weird, though, is like,

[33:52] the killer's MO is that he hangs people up by pulleys,

[33:55] and then he cuts them very slowly

[33:56] with what looks like a tiny pizza slicer.

[33:59] But it's like...

[34:00] So you're having to believe that he drugs them,

[34:02] then he takes a while drilling holes in the ceiling,

[34:05] screwing in the pulley,

[34:06] then he's got to run the rope through it,

[34:08] he's got to test the weight of the pulley

[34:09] to make sure it's going to hold.

[34:11] Right.

[34:11] Maybe he's got to put some anchors in

[34:13] just to make sure.

[34:14] Structural integrity of the ceiling has to be done right.

[34:17] Then he ties them up to the pulley,

[34:19] then he's got to pull them up into the air,

[34:21] and then he's got to set it so it holds

[34:23] that they're still in the air.

[34:23] It's going to be a counterweight of some kind.

[34:25] It's a very elaborate system.

Dan McCoy

[34:27] Speaking of MOs of the killer,

[34:28] this reminds me,

[34:29] the reason that it's 88 minutes, by the way,

[34:31] is that the killer of Al Pacino's sister

[34:34] said to Al Pacino as he left

[34:37] after killing the sister,

[34:39] it took me 88 minutes

[34:40] referring to the amount of time

[34:42] it took him to just dismember her.

[34:45] First of all,

[34:45] what a weird thing to say

[34:47] as he leaves.

[34:49] By the way,

[34:50] I thought you wanted to know

[34:51] 88 minutes.

[34:52] That's how long it took.

Elliott Kalan

[34:52] I think he thought Al Pacino

[34:53] was the guy he asked to come by from Guinness

[34:55] for the record of...

Dan McCoy

[34:57] Well, but that's the other thing

[34:58] I was going to say.

[34:58] If it takes you 88 minutes

[35:00] to dismember a 12-year-old,

[35:02] you're just a lazy killer.

Elliott Kalan

[35:04] Or very weak.

[35:04] He might have had very weak arm strength.

Dan McCoy

[35:06] Yeah.

[35:07] Or he was using like a nail file.

[35:08] So what were you going to say

[35:09] ignore my cat

[35:11] trying to knock over a lamp behind you?

Elliott Kalan

[35:13] I just keep worrying

[35:14] it's the pulley Seattle Slayer Killer.

[35:17] I was going to say

[35:17] it's a bad, bad movie.

[35:19] I'd say it's very poorly made.

[35:21] And I'm sorry that Alicia Witt was in it

[35:24] because I think she's usually very likable.

[35:26] She's cute as can be.

[35:28] The only thing that made it for me

[35:30] was Lily Sobieski's crazy accent,

[35:33] which is vaguely Eastern European

[35:35] or Dutch

[35:36] or Irish at times

[35:37] or...

Dan McCoy

[35:38] Yeah.

[35:38] Someone write in

[35:39] and tell us

[35:40] what that accent is.

Elliott Kalan

[35:41] Tell us where she's from

[35:42] because we...

[35:42] Yes, we could easily

[35:43] discover that information.

[35:45] Yeah, but we're lazy.

Dan McCoy

[35:46] We like people to...

[35:46] So this is the

Elliott Kalan

[35:47] Flophouse Lily Sobieski

[35:48] Where...

[35:49] Where's she from contest?

Dan McCoy

[35:50] Rather than finding

[35:51] the information out

[35:52] immediately

[35:53] by using Google

[35:54] or maybe Wikipedia,

[35:55] we would rather wait,

[35:57] you know,

[35:57] two or three weeks

[35:58] to have it sent to us.

Elliott Kalan

[35:59] Or if you're listening,

[35:59] Lily Sobieski,

[36:00] If I remember my college German correctly,

[36:04] where are you from?

[36:05] Where do you come from,

[36:06] to be specific?

Dan McCoy

[36:07] But let's leave her accent behind

[36:10] and...

[36:11] I don't know if I can.

[36:13] ...tack a course bravly

[36:14] to the future.

Elliott Kalan

[36:15] I'm really worried now

[36:16] that I'm going to have a dream

[36:17] where Al Pacino accuses me

[36:18] of pulling his semen

[36:19] out of one woman

[36:20] and putting it into another woman.

Dan McCoy

[36:22] It's an obvious frame-up!

[36:24] Oh, man.

[36:25] Everyone has that dream, though.

[36:26] It's like being naked at school

[36:28] or a test.

[36:29] The semen Pacino dream.

Elliott Kalan

[36:30] Or like a dream

[36:31] where you need to go to the bathroom

[36:32] but you can't find

[36:33] a private place to go.

[36:34] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[36:35] Or nuclear war.

[36:36] That's a dream I get a lot.

[36:37] Do you get the nuclear war dream?

Elliott Kalan

[36:39] No.

[36:39] I think I think about it

[36:40] so much in my waking hours

[36:41] that my brain is tired of it

[36:43] by the time I go to sleep.

[36:44] Yeah.

[36:44] I used to have a dream

[36:45] very regularly

[36:46] that I was being chased

[36:47] by Lee Van Cleef

[36:48] for a few dollars more

[36:49] and just chased through time.

[36:52] We would start out

[36:53] in the Old West

[36:53] and run straight through

[36:54] into the present.

[36:55] Wow.

[36:56] And then when we got

[36:56] to the present present,

[36:58] someone would stop him

[36:59] and be like,

[36:59] let him go.

[37:00] and then I just leave.

Dan McCoy

[37:01] This is like a great

[37:02] 1970s TV show

[37:04] that you never had

[37:04] the chance to make.

Elliott Kalan

[37:07] Time Chaser?

[37:08] Yeah.

[37:08] There is a movie

[37:09] called Time Chaser though.

Dan McCoy

[37:10] Starring Cleef.

Elliott Kalan

[37:13] That's what they call them.

[37:14] Just Cleef.

[37:15] Just Cleef.

[37:17] I don't think anybody

Elliott Kalan

[37:17] ever called him that ever.

[37:19] I did.

[37:20] Just now.

[37:21] Okay.

[37:22] Well, touche.

[37:23] Point to McCoy.

Dan McCoy

[37:24] Anyway,

[37:25] we should go on

[37:26] and make our

[37:27] movie recommendations

[37:28] which will be a lot shorter

[37:29] now that Stuart's not here.

[37:31] Now that we've

[37:31] dismembered Stuart

[37:32] in 88 minutes.

[37:33] 88 minutes.

[37:34] That's all it took.

[37:35] Why don't you

[37:35] recommend something?

Elliott Kalan

[37:36] Well, what am I

[37:37] going to recommend?

[37:39] I just this past Monday

[37:41] saw Synecdoche, New York.

[37:44] Charlie Kaufman's

[37:45] directorial debut

[37:46] in feature length film,

[37:48] I guess.

[37:49] And it's gotten

[37:50] kind of mixed reviews,

[37:51] I guess.

[37:52] People are not happy with,

[37:55] I don't know,

[37:55] it's a movie where

[37:56] you either like it

[37:57] or you don't like it,

[37:57] but it's such a,

[37:58] it's so much

[37:59] Charlie Kaufman's,

[38:00] I assume,

[38:01] his personal vision on film

[38:03] of what he wanted

[38:03] the movie to be

[38:04] that you admire it.

[38:05] I enjoyed it a lot

[38:06] even though it's a really

[38:07] rough movie to sit through

[38:09] at times.

[38:09] It's a very serious,

[38:11] bleak movie,

[38:12] but there's some

[38:12] really funny parts.

[38:13] It is like 88 minutes,

[38:15] a movie that feels

[38:16] longer than it actually is

[38:17] and takes a little too long.

[38:19] But I enjoyed it a lot,

[38:20] I thought it was very good.

[38:21] I read one of my

[38:22] least favorite explanations

[38:24] for a movie

[38:25] on the IMDb message boards.

[38:27] It's a movie that kind of

[38:28] skips through time

[38:30] very erratically.

Dan McCoy

[38:31] The IMDb message boards

[38:32] for people who are

[38:33] too stupid to watch movies.

Elliott Kalan

[38:36] But there's,

[38:37] did you see it, Dan,

[38:38] or no?

[38:38] No, I haven't seen it.

[38:39] I don't want to say

[38:40] too much.

[38:40] There's a lot of

[38:41] surreal moments in it,

[38:42] things that aren't

[38:43] super logical

[38:44] but make sense

[38:45] on a thematic

[38:45] or emotional level

[38:46] because it's a Charlie Kaufman

[38:48] movie and it's a movie.

[38:49] What are you going to do?

[38:49] And I read

[38:50] one of the explanations

[38:52] online was

[38:54] obviously

[38:55] Philip Seymour Hoffman's

[38:56] character is in a coma

[38:57] starting from this point

[38:59] in the movie.

[39:00] Everything after that

[39:01] is just his imagination

[39:03] in the coma

[39:03] and replies that were like,

[39:05] yeah, that makes

[39:05] a lot of sense.

[39:06] Okay, now I get it.

[39:07] It's like, okay,

[39:08] well, you just took

[39:09] this kind of singular

[39:10] artistic vision

[39:11] and turned it into

[39:12] a bad, you know, like...

[39:14] It was all a dream.

[39:15] Yeah, or like a bad

[39:16] psychoanalysis

[39:17] where it's like,

[39:17] it's like if someone

[39:18] watched eight and a half,

[39:19] like it feels like

[39:19] Charlie Kaufman's

[39:20] eight and a half

[39:21] to a certain extent.

[39:22] Like if you watched

[39:23] eight and a half

[39:23] and you were like,

[39:24] oh, I guess he's just,

[39:26] someone hit him on the head

[39:27] and he's just remembering

[39:28] his life out of order.

[39:29] That makes sense.

[39:31] Yeah.

[39:31] It reminded me,

[39:32] I saw...

Dan McCoy

[39:32] Well, I also love...

[39:33] This happens actually

[39:34] on the IMDb message boards

[39:36] a lot, I feel,

[39:38] where someone puts out

[39:39] an explanation

[39:40] that has no real support

[39:44] in the text of the film.

[39:46] Yeah.

[39:47] And then if people

[39:48] call them on it,

[39:49] they're like,

[39:50] well, everyone has

[39:51] their own opinion.

[39:52] And I'm like,

Elliott Kalan

[39:53] no, that's not...

[39:54] But you have to work

[39:56] with the materials

[39:56] that are given.

[39:57] Yeah, you can't just

Dan McCoy

[39:57] make things up.

[39:58] It's not like I watch,

[39:59] you know,

[40:00] like the Philadelphia story

[40:01] and I'm like,

[40:02] these are actually

[40:03] earthlings who have been

[40:05] put in a zoo on Mars.

[40:07] A space zoo, yeah.

[40:08] They're working out there.

[40:10] The reason why

[40:10] there's such competition

[40:11] for this one woman

[40:12] is because there are

[40:13] so few women on the planet.

Elliott Kalan

[40:15] But it reminded me of...

[40:16] I was a big fan of Memento

[40:18] when it came out

[40:19] and I remember

[40:19] freshman year of college

[40:21] there was like a thing like,

[40:22] get together and watch Memento

[40:24] and just a couple people

[40:24] showed up and was like,

[40:25] oh, this is a good way

[40:26] to meet people.

[40:27] And I went

[40:29] and we watched it

[40:29] and everyone was like,

[40:31] oh man,

[40:32] I'm kind of having trouble

[40:33] figuring out the plot

[40:34] of this thing.

[40:34] That was confusing.

[40:35] Which is,

[40:36] people have said the same thing

[40:37] about Synecdoche New York

[40:38] but it's like,

[40:38] if you pay attention to it

[40:39] you will understand

[40:40] what's going on

[40:41] and it's not nonsense.

[40:42] But people are like,

[40:43] I don't understand.

[40:44] And this one girl goes,

[40:45] here's the way

[40:46] I figured the movie out.

[40:48] He's,

[40:49] none of the things

[40:49] he remembers

[40:50] actually happened.

[40:51] He's just a serial killer

[40:52] who's convinced himself

[40:53] that he's tracking down

[40:54] his wife's killer

[40:55] and that's why

[40:56] he's killing

[40:57] all these people.

[40:57] And I was like,

[40:58] well,

[40:59] you just took

[40:59] a kind of,

[41:00] well,

[41:00] like interestingly done

[41:01] examination of what memory is

[41:03] and the nature of identity

[41:04] and the past

[41:05] and turned it into

[41:06] a very shitty

[41:07] serial killer movie.

[41:08] But,

Dan McCoy

[41:09] as a college

[41:11] get to know you

[41:11] sort of event,

[41:12] it was a success

[41:13] because you're like,

[41:13] I don't want to be friends

[41:14] with this girl.

Elliott Kalan

[41:15] That's true.

[41:15] I got to know them

[41:16] and I decided

[41:16] I didn't want to have

[41:17] anything more to do with them.

[41:18] To hell with you jerks.

[41:19] Everyone knows

[41:20] Memento's basically

[41:20] just a serious version

[41:22] of Dana Carvey's

[41:22] hit film

[41:23] blank slate anyway.

Dan McCoy

[41:24] Oh man,

[41:27] Christopher Nolan,

[41:28] what a ripoff artist.

Elliott Kalan

[41:29] What a ripoff artist.

[41:31] Carvey was the auteur.

[41:32] Plus,

[41:33] he made that movie

[41:34] Batman Begins.

[41:35] It was a total ripoff

[41:36] of Batman.

[41:38] Am I the only one

[41:39] who noticed this?

[41:40] I don't understand.

Dan McCoy

[41:41] He just added

[41:41] a little beginning to it.

Elliott Kalan

[41:42] And then he made

[41:43] that movie The Dark Knight.

[41:44] It was just a ripoff

[41:45] of Batman Begins.

[41:47] Way to copy yourself,

[41:48] Nolan.

[41:49] How many movies

[41:50] have you made?

[41:50] Five?

[41:51] Six?

[41:51] Already copying yourself?

[41:52] Whatever.

[41:53] So I would like

[41:54] to recommend...

[41:54] The movie Insomnia?

[41:55] Total ripoff

[41:56] of the book Insomnia.

[41:57] Total ripoff

Dan McCoy

[41:58] of the Swedish film

[42:00] Insomnia.

[42:00] Oh, that's right.

Elliott Kalan

[42:01] Yeah, it's based

[42:01] on a Swedish film.

[42:02] I was about to base it

[42:04] on the Stephen King

[42:05] book Insomnia,

[42:06] which has nothing

[42:06] in common

[42:07] with either movie Insomnia.

[42:09] Yeah.

[42:10] Anyway,

[42:10] but you were going

[42:11] to recommend something.

Dan McCoy

[42:11] Yeah, I was.

[42:12] If you're looking

[42:12] for a bad film,

[42:14] which people often are

[42:15] if they're listening

[42:16] to The Flophouse,

[42:17] and usually we recommend

[42:18] good movies

[42:19] during this point

Elliott Kalan

[42:20] of the show,

[42:22] but...

[42:23] But 88 Minutes

[42:23] has broken your soul.

Dan McCoy

[42:25] Well, I mean,

[42:26] there's a difference,

[42:27] obviously,

[42:28] or else we wouldn't

[42:28] have a rating system,

[42:30] between a bad movie

[42:31] that you have no interest

[42:32] in seeing

[42:32] and a bad movie

[42:33] that is a thing

[42:35] of beauty

[42:35] and a joy forever,

[42:37] and Winter Beast

[42:38] is a great bad movie.

[42:41] I watched it

[42:42] on the day after Halloween

[42:43] with some friends

[42:44] who were visiting

[42:44] from out of town,

[42:46] and I had it

[42:46] because I knew

[42:47] it was this horror movie

[42:48] that had a reputation.

[42:50] It was released

[42:51] to DVD in 91,

[42:54] or I guess

[42:55] the release date,

[42:56] at least,

[42:56] in general,

[42:57] is 91 on IMDb

[42:59] and on the Netflix sleeve,

[43:01] but the film,

[43:02] every shot in it

[43:03] looks like it was

[43:04] like a 1960s,

[43:05] 1970s,

[43:06] Yellowstone

[43:07] tourist postcard,

[43:10] and it really has

[43:10] that feel.

[43:11] There are all these

[43:12] knickknacks in it.

[43:14] The set dresser

[43:15] wasn't thinking,

[43:17] oh,

[43:17] this is going to distract

[43:18] from the actual action

[43:19] of the film.

[43:20] It's like,

[43:21] hmm,

[43:21] I wonder if I can

[43:22] work a wooden Indian

[43:23] into this.

[43:24] Or like,

[43:25] a velvet painting

[43:28] of a buffalo.

[43:30] And it has

[43:31] a bunch of

[43:32] stop motion in it.

[43:35] And I love

[43:36] old stop motion

[43:37] monster effects.

Elliott Kalan

[43:40] What level

[43:41] stop motion is this?

[43:42] Is this Ray Harryhausen

[43:43] level or like

[43:44] Equinox level?

[43:45] I haven't seen

[43:46] Equinox,

[43:46] but it's

[43:47] certainly not

[43:48] Ray Harryhausen level.

[43:49] Ray Harryhausen level

[43:50] or like Phil Tippett level.

[43:52] Or more like

[43:52] Willis O'Brien level.

Dan McCoy

[43:54] How many stop motion

[43:54] animators can I name?

[43:56] Let's see.

[43:57] I watched

[43:57] The Making Of

[43:58] and the guy

[43:59] who did the stop motion

[44:00] actually did some stuff

[44:00] for like

[44:01] liquid television.

[44:03] Oh, okay.

[44:03] So is it like

Elliott Kalan

[44:04] Henry Selleck level

[44:05] or,

[44:06] anyway,

[44:06] you were saying?

Dan McCoy

[44:07] He knows what he's doing,

[44:08] but it's still

[44:09] a terrible movie.

[44:10] And the funny thing is

[44:11] like there are these

[44:12] sequences where

[44:13] there's like a fun

[44:14] monster effect

[44:15] and you're like,

[44:18] okay,

[44:19] this movie showed

[44:19] some like

[44:20] imagination

[44:20] and creativity

[44:21] and then in between

[44:22] it's just

[44:23] bad movie dreck

[44:24] like Man of the Hands

[44:26] of Fate level

[44:26] of inept filmmaking

[44:28] and padding

[44:29] and just hilarious

[44:31] dialogue.

[44:33] And so if you're

[44:34] looking for a bad movie

[44:35] that won't disappoint you

[44:36] as 88 Minutes did

[44:38] for both of us,

[44:39] I would recommend

[44:40] Winter Beast.

[44:41] Mr. McGoriam

[44:41] better be good

[44:42] in a bad way.

[44:43] I'd like to note

[44:44] for the audience

[44:44] that Elliot is currently

[44:46] putting his shoes on.

[44:48] He can't wait

[44:49] to get out of here

[44:49] so much.

[44:50] Listen,

[44:50] 88 Minutes has

Elliott Kalan

[44:51] tainted this for me.

[44:52] He's putting his

Dan McCoy

[44:53] shoes back on

[44:54] as we were still

[44:55] on the air.

Elliott Kalan

[44:55] I'm tired, okay?

[44:57] That's fine.

[44:57] I had to stay up

[44:58] late at work last night

[44:59] and then I had to go

[44:59] to a party

[45:00] with the cast

[45:01] of 30 Rock

[45:01] and I didn't get

[45:02] to talk to any of them.

[45:03] Jesus.

[45:04] I was at a bit...

[45:05] We're lording

Dan McCoy

[45:06] your glamorous life

[45:07] over me, Caleb.

Elliott Kalan

[45:08] Man, the Comedy Central Party.

[45:09] 30 Rock was there.

[45:10] Gina Gershon was there.

[45:11] I saw her in person.

[45:13] Who else was there?

[45:14] I apparently got there

[45:14] too late to meet

[45:15] Padma from Top Chef

[45:17] or Padma from Star Wars.

Dan McCoy

[45:21] Who else was there?

[45:22] I'm over here

[45:22] desperately seeking

[45:23] my brain to think

[45:24] of something

[45:24] that might be

[45:25] impressive to say

[45:26] and I have nothing.

[45:27] No, no.

Elliott Kalan

[45:27] You said you had

[45:28] an open house

[45:29] for grad students

[45:29] today at your office.

[45:30] What was that like?

[45:32] I'm going to punch you

Dan McCoy

[45:33] as soon as we get

[45:34] off the air

[45:35] so there's no proof.

Elliott Kalan

[45:38] Maybe I'll edit

[45:39] this part out.

[45:39] Nah, I'll just

[45:40] leave it in.

Dan McCoy

[45:41] Well, anyway,

[45:42] in the absence

[45:43] of Stuart...

[45:44] Yeah, where is Stuart

[45:45] anyway?

[45:45] He is in, I believe,

[45:48] Hotlanta, Georgia

[45:49] teaching people

[45:50] how to paint

[45:51] toy soldiers

[45:52] or something like that.

[45:54] You don't really

[45:54] know what he does.

[45:55] He trains people.

[45:57] They send him

[45:57] all over to train people

[45:58] which to me

[45:59] is hilarious

[45:59] because I know

[46:00] that he's actually

[46:00] good at his job

[46:01] but...

[46:02] They gave him

[46:03] an award.

[46:03] Yeah, but all I can

[46:04] think of when I think

[46:05] of Stuart is

[46:06] him shambling

[46:07] into the apartment

[46:08] with a tall boy

[46:09] of Coors Light.

Elliott Kalan

[46:10] And then changing

[46:11] into a tiny bathing suit.

Dan McCoy

[46:12] Yeah, in the middle

[46:13] of the flop house

[46:16] just emerging

[46:17] from the bathroom

[46:18] in a Speedo.

[46:20] We miss you, Stuart,

[46:21] I guess is what

[46:21] we're trying to say.

Elliott Kalan

[46:22] Is he wearing

[46:22] his formal

[46:23] scorpion buckle belt?

Dan McCoy

[46:26] I think so.

[46:27] I think so.

[46:27] Yeah.

[46:28] What a great guy.

Elliott Kalan

[46:29] Like, this is not

[46:30] as important as him.

[46:30] Let's call him right now.

[46:31] No, let's go home instead.

[46:33] But, uh, it is,

[46:34] but hopefully he'll be here

[46:35] next time.

[46:36] Yeah.

[46:37] For Mr. McGoriam.

[46:38] We're not even gonna do

[46:39] that next time probably.

[46:41] I think we're gonna do

[46:41] 27 dresses.

[46:43] Awesome.

[46:44] You know what?

[46:44] Let's just do a string

[46:45] of movies with numbers

[46:46] in the title.

[46:47] 88 minutes,

[46:48] 27 dresses,

[46:49] 30 miles to Graceland.

[46:51] Uh, what else is there?

[46:52] Come on, we can name

[46:53] some more.

[46:54] Um.

[46:54] Too Fast, Too Furious.

[46:58] Seven.

Dan McCoy

[47:00] Voyages of Sin.

[47:02] That's a good movie.

Elliott Kalan

[47:03] That's a good, well,

[47:04] it's a movie with good

[47:04] effects in it.

[47:05] Like Winter Beast.

[47:07] Come on, 30 Days of Night.

[47:09] I'm thinking of so many

[47:10] good movies with

[47:11] numbers in the titles.

[47:12] You got nothing.

[47:13] Uh, 21.

[47:15] That movie about

[47:16] Blackjack.

[47:17] Actually, yeah,

[47:18] that would be a pretty

[47:19] good one for this.

[47:20] Because it's,

[47:21] they took a true story,

[47:22] made everyone in it

[47:23] much more attractive.

Dan McCoy

[47:24] And much less Asian.

[47:25] Like, the actual guy

[47:27] was like an Asian American

[47:28] and they're like,

[47:29] nah.

[47:29] Oh, I didn't know that.

[47:30] This is a Hollywood film.

[47:32] Caucasian all the way.

[47:34] Caucasian is kind of

[47:35] like Asian.

[47:36] Now, after Barack Obama's

[47:37] president,

[47:38] that's all gonna change.

Elliott Kalan

[47:39] Well, this is,

[47:40] uh, my friend Matt Pack

[47:41] has a joke in his

[47:42] standard routine

[47:43] where it says,

[47:43] uh, the people who

[47:44] hate Barack Obama

[47:46] the most are movie

[47:46] producers because

[47:47] now how are they

[47:48] gonna let you know

[47:49] that a movie is taking

[47:50] place in the future.

[47:51] Uh, used to be

[47:52] the shorthand for that

[47:53] was black president.

[47:54] Yeah.

[47:54] But, now we've,

[47:55] we're at that point.

[47:57] That was the thing.

Dan McCoy

[47:57] Chris Rock's head of state

[47:58] is no longer funny.

[48:00] Oh, yeah.

[48:01] Because before it was

[48:02] hilarious.

Elliott Kalan

[48:03] Well, for other reasons,

[48:04] it's not funny.

[48:05] But the,

[48:06] that's what,

[48:06] that's what's so great

[48:07] is like,

[48:07] people are always like,

[48:08] where's my flying cars?

[48:09] We're supposed to be

[48:10] in the future.

[48:11] We've got a black

[48:12] president coming up soon

[48:13] and CNN had

[48:14] holograms on.

[48:15] Yeah.

[48:16] It's newscast the other

[48:16] day.

[48:17] We're living in the future

[48:18] that was promised to us.

[48:19] And it's not the

[48:19] Blade Runner bad future

[48:20] wherever it's always

[48:21] rainy all the time

[48:22] and what's his name

[48:23] from Deadwood and

[48:24] New Heart is aging

[48:25] too fast.

Dan McCoy

[48:26] 88 minutes.

[48:28] On that note,

[48:29] let's sign off.

[48:30] I'm Dan McCoy.

Elliott Kalan

[48:31] I'm Elliot Kalin.

[48:33] I'm Sarah Wellington.

[48:34] Good night.

[48:35] I've lost my will to live.

[48:45] I want to do podcasts.

[48:47] Fuck up, Dan.

[48:47] We can do this.

[48:48] Don't let 88 minutes

[48:49] be the one that breaks you.

[48:50] I think it's Stuart's absence.

Dan McCoy

[48:52] Yeah, it kind of hurts.

[48:53] It's sad.

Elliott Kalan

[48:55] Hello, everyone.

[48:56] Thank you.

The Flop House: Episode #26 - 88 Minutes

Transcript

In this episode

Description