Ep.#442 - Joker: Folie à Deux

[0:00] Hi, floppers, before we start this episode,

[0:02] I just wanted to remind you,

[0:03] we are in the middle of Flop TV season two.

[0:06] That's right, the one hour internet televised

[0:08] Flop House TV show is here for you

[0:11] the first Saturday of every month through February.

[0:14] Just go to theflophouse.simpletics.com

[0:17] and get your tickets or season pass

[0:19] for this all new Flop House TV stuff.

[0:22] We're covering movies we've never covered before.

[0:24] We've got video segments.

[0:25] It's amazing.

[0:27] Just go to theflophouse.simpletics.com

[0:29] for Flop TV season two.

[0:31] This time, it's personal.

[0:33] On this episode, we discuss Joker,

[0:37] Folly a deux.

[0:39] Oh, man, we got a Pebula P situation going on over here.

[0:43] Dan, stop assaulting that cat.

[0:44] Hey, everyone, and welcome to the Flop House.

[1:10] I'm Dan McCoy.

[1:11] I'm that Stuart Wellington.

[1:13] Oh, that one.

[1:14] I'm Elliot Kalin, and I don't want to start things off

[1:17] on a negative note, but-

[1:19] On this all positive podcast?

[1:21] Your performance reviews on this all positive podcast

[1:24] when we say good things about things.

[1:26] I wanted to apologize if the recording audio quality

[1:29] on my side of things is not at its tippy top.

[1:32] I am not at my home right now.

[1:34] We're recording this during the time

[1:35] of the Los Angeles fires of early 2025

[1:39] because 2025 just couldn't wait to get the bad stuff out

[1:42] right off the bat, just wanted to do it early.

[1:45] And I'm okay.

[1:46] My family and I, we left the city

[1:48] because our house was a little bit too close

[1:50] to where we were comfortable with being

[1:53] when it comes to being close to fire.

[1:55] But luckily for us, we've been very lucky,

[1:58] and it seems like our house is okay

[2:00] and we'll be returning to it.

[2:01] But I wanted to say, you'll be hearing this a week later,

[2:04] but a lot of people have been devastated

[2:07] by what happened both emotionally

[2:09] and also in terms of losing their homes.

[2:11] And so I wanted to encourage anyone listening

[2:14] to even though this was a week ago,

[2:17] and hopefully by the time you're listening to this,

[2:18] those fires will be put out,

[2:20] please do, if you can, donate to any one

[2:23] of the number of excellent causes

[2:26] that are available to help people.

[2:28] There's so many of them that honestly,

[2:29] I'm not sure which is the one

[2:31] that I wanna point people to specifically.

[2:33] The one that comes up a lot

[2:34] is the California Fire Foundation.

[2:37] But there's a number of other good ones.

[2:38] If you Google, how can I help Los Angeles fire,

[2:42] there'll be a lot of good options for you.

[2:44] But two personal ones that I wanted to draw attention to,

[2:48] if that's okay with Dan and Stuart,

[2:50] these are not organizations for people

[2:51] that paid for ad spots.

[2:54] And I know that Dan is really kind of like a stickler

[2:56] about this.

[2:57] He makes me pay when I promote my own stuff.

[3:02] There's two GoFundMes that are especially close to me.

[3:05] One is for a family named the Dennisons.

[3:10] Their son is one of my younger son's best friends.

[3:13] Their house was unfortunately completely destroyed.

[3:15] They lost almost everything that they own.

[3:17] And there's an aid fund just for helping them restock

[3:21] as they are finding a place to live in the meantime.

[3:24] If you go to GoFundMe and you search for

[3:26] Aid for Dennison Families Fire Loss,

[3:29] that's D-E-N-I-S-O-N, Aid for Dennison Families Fire Loss,

[3:34] please, if you feel an interest in donating to help them,

[3:38] or in addition to something that's a bigger issue,

[3:42] is that the synagogue where my, that same younger son,

[3:46] he's just a bad news kid who had his cursed,

[3:49] the synagogue where he went to preschool

[3:51] and which is kind of our Jewish community in the area,

[3:55] PJTC, the Pasadena Jewish Temple and Center,

[3:57] was completely burned to the ground.

[4:00] And it was very traumatic for us seeing

[4:03] the pictures of this place

[4:04] that we used to take him every single day

[4:06] and that we still go to for events just destroyed.

[4:09] And so if you go on GoFundMe and you go to

[4:11] Help PJTC Rebuild After the Eaton Fire,

[4:15] again, search for Help, P as in Paul or Pasadena,

[4:18] JTC, Rebuild After the Eaton Fire,

[4:22] any amount that you can help

[4:23] in getting them off the ground would be fantastic.

[4:26] They've been there for about a century

[4:27] as a synagogue and Jewish center,

[4:30] and that building just needs to be rebuilt

[4:34] because it was destroyed in the fire.

[4:35] And so those are two that would mean a lot to me

[4:38] if any listeners wanted to help with them.

[4:40] But otherwise, if you'd rather help in the broader sense

[4:43] with one of the larger organizations,

[4:44] please do so wherever you wanna donate your money

[4:48] or goods if the place are accepting goods.

[4:52] As a Southern Californian, I would greatly appreciate it.

[4:56] And as a friend of the Dennisons

[4:58] and as a kind of unofficial member,

[5:01] we never fully joined the synagogue,

[5:03] but we do buy tickets to the High Holy Days sometimes.

[5:06] As someone who spends a lot of time around PJTC

[5:08] and is very close to a lot of the people

[5:10] who are members there, those are two GoFundMes

[5:12] that I would really appreciate it if people donated to.

[5:15] So thank you very much.

[5:17] I'm completely safe, and so don't worry about me.

[5:19] And if you wanna mail me like an envelope full of 20s,

[5:22] I'll donate it to this stuff.

[5:23] I'm worried about you every day, Elliot.

[5:26] I'll just skim a little off the top

[5:27] and then I'll donate the rest, yeah.

[5:28] Well, we're very glad for that.

[5:31] Obviously, we're very glad for that.

[5:33] But also, as you say, this will come out later,

[5:38] a week later from when we're recording it.

[5:41] God willing, the news will still be the same then,

[5:43] but for all those who've been-

[5:45] The news that LA will be on fire?

[5:47] No, no, no. No, we want the fire

[5:48] to be over by then. I don't want that to be.

[5:49] No, the news I'm about to say,

[5:51] God willing, it'll still be the same.

[5:53] Oh, good.

[5:55] As far as I know, all the max fund workers

[6:00] and hosts in the area are safe and well.

[6:05] And we hope that that continues, certainly.

[6:08] But obviously, many, many, many people

[6:10] have been impacted terribly by this.

[6:12] So I'm glad that you started off with this plea.

[6:17] Thank you.

[6:18] Yeah, it'll be, hopefully, by the time you listen to this,

[6:20] those fires will be out and people will be safe.

[6:23] But a lot of people are gonna need help

[6:24] getting their lives back on track, back together.

[6:28] And especially people in the area of Altadena,

[6:30] which is very close to where I live

[6:32] and where a lot of people we know live.

[6:33] And so, yeah, if you can help out to get those,

[6:36] to help all those people, that'd be wonderful.

[6:38] So without further ado,

[6:40] let's start talking about something positive and fun.

[6:42] Let's start this comedy show.

[6:42] Joker Folly Ado, a laugh riot.

[6:44] Well, with a name like that, yeah,

[6:45] with a name like that, that's a comedy, right?

[6:47] And it's written by a famed comedy-

[6:50] Comedy director.

[6:50] Comedy director, Tom Phillips.

[6:52] You've got the hangover director.

[6:53] It's got the classic clown prince of crime, the Joker.

[6:56] It's got the word folly in the title.

[6:59] And just like Stephen Sondheim's funniest play, Follies.

[7:03] So you know it's gonna be a laugh, L-A-F-F riot.

[7:07] Right, guys?

[7:08] That it is, that it is.

[7:09] Now, have you guys seen the first Joker movie?

[7:12] I have seen.

[7:13] From now on, we will refer to it as Joker 1.

[7:15] Did we cover Joker on the podcast or did we not?

[7:18] No, we did not.

[7:19] We did not do it.

[7:20] Oh, we should have, because I did not like it.

[7:21] Yeah, I did see it.

[7:22] No, I mean, I think I didn't like it,

[7:24] but I don't know if I would have had fun

[7:26] talking about why I didn't like it.

[7:27] And you know what?

[7:29] We can talk about it here.

[7:30] Yeah.

[7:31] It was a case in which I did not like the movie.

[7:34] I did not hate it as much as the people

[7:36] who really hate it do,

[7:38] because I think that at least I saw

[7:42] that there was skill in the making of it,

[7:44] even if I didn't particularly like what it was doing.

[7:47] And so much of it was stolen from other movies.

[7:52] I mean, it feels in some ways like the first AI movie

[7:55] where it was like, computer, put the Joker in taxi driver.

[7:58] Joker, put the Joker in king of comedy.

[8:01] And the computer was like, beep, boop.

[8:02] But you're right, it is the first Joker.

[8:04] It was a largely panned and unsuccessful.

[8:08] All these Oscars?

[8:09] Of what?

[8:10] One best actor.

[8:11] That's why there are now, I believe,

[8:13] the same number of Asian women have won acting awards

[8:17] as people who played the Joker, which is two.

[8:21] But it made a billion dollars.

[8:24] It was a huge hit.

[8:25] I mean, I didn't like it.

[8:26] I felt like it was production standpoint,

[8:28] acting standpoint, excellently done.

[8:30] And I thought it was all towards a goal

[8:32] that I did not appreciate

[8:33] and I did not enjoy or connect with.

[8:35] But clearly connected with a lot of people.

[8:37] It made a billion dollars.

[8:39] And I don't know, and that can't all just be

[8:41] because the music and the costumes

[8:43] and everything were fantastic.

[8:44] But Elliot, it connected with people in a way

[8:45] that Todd Phillips did not appreciate.

[8:47] And thus, Joker 2 enters the picture.

[8:50] This is the curious thing.

[8:51] I wonder if, because everyone's like,

[8:53] Joker 2 has taken the piss out of the fans of Joker.

[8:55] And I wonder if that is the deliberate case

[8:57] or if he is just so not aware of what people connected to

[9:01] in the first movie.

[9:02] I don't know.

[9:03] I mean, I know that he, I forget the punk guy

[9:07] that he started out with a documentary about.

[9:10] But I think Todd Phillips has this part of him

[9:15] that wants to be mean, that does not want people

[9:18] to connect with these things.

[9:20] But also, I think specifically,

[9:22] I do get the feeling that he has a B in his bonnet

[9:25] about how the real Joker fans connected in a way

[9:28] that he's like, no, no, you're not supposed to want this.

[9:32] You know who also had that experience?

[9:34] Fucking Martin Scorsese when he made Taxi Driver.

[9:36] And he would see it in theaters and people would applaud

[9:38] when Travis Bick would shoot people.

[9:40] Even in his reaction to the thing that happened

[9:43] and being upset about it,

[9:44] he is following in the footsteps of somebody else.

[9:48] But so I guess with this one, he decided he was like,

[9:51] I'm not doing a Martin Scorsese movie,

[9:52] except maybe it's New York, New York.

[9:53] Actually, you know what?

[9:54] He is doing it for Martin Scorsese a little bit.

[9:55] He's like, I'm gonna do my Bob Fosse movie now.

[9:58] I'm gonna take from all that.

[10:00] jazz i'm gonna take from chicago and uh the whole time i was watching it i was like oh this is like

[10:05] pennies from heaven which is not bob osley but but with the joker in it you know um yeah guys

[10:10] speaking of the joker let's fucking talk about this shit dude let's talk about it you love the

[10:14] first movie right you saw you saw it right i did not care for the first movie it was not a stews

[10:20] pick i felt like that's a coveted sticker yeah whatever happened in the segment on the shoes

[10:28] makes yeah i felt like i felt like the the message of the first movie was like

[10:32] life sucks doesn't it isn't life shitty aren't people shitty joker and i was like well i don't

[10:39] i don't need a movie to tell me this you know anyway uh yeah yeah i mean there's elements of

[10:43] that so um joker folly ado uh which what means madness of two or something yeah it's something

[10:49] like that so is it is it referring to the madness of making a sequel oh maybe i like that in the

[10:56] medical sense it refers to like a shared delusion like a delusion that like sort of reinforces like

[11:01] between two people and also creatures let's say they're going for like man what a fucking movie

[11:07] heavenly creatures is oh what a great movie and also like in a more foo you know like a crazy

[11:12] laugh because i i assume they're trying to have like two of hearts two hearts that beat as one

[11:16] two of hearts i need you i need you that's what i got from yeah yeah yeah okay so the movie opens

[11:21] with a chuck jones-esque uh i say this is more tech savory okay i was waiting for ellie to come

[11:33] that's why i gave you guys space uh i don't know we've been working together for a while guys

[11:37] yeah yeah thank you okay so there's a little chuck jones was on my mind because i just re-watched

[11:42] gremlins and he makes a cameo appearance in it so the movie begins with a cartoon um and the

[11:49] cartoon is kind of a recap of the climax of the first joker film but it has a slight spin on it

[11:56] where joker is bedeviled and tormented by a shadow version of himself which seems to be committing

[12:03] uh committing crimes or whatnot and then that shadow self uh basically frames joker for because

[12:10] joker just has a song in his heart and it frames joker and he gets taken he gets beaten up by the

[12:15] he just wants to have a laugh you know i gotta say this was a strong opening to me yes when this

[12:19] started i was like oh maybe this will be good like the animation is beautiful the way it's put

[12:24] together is really what is really good and it feels like oh they're doing it's not just i mean

[12:29] they're still taking a style that someone else pioneered but it was like oh this wasn't what i

[12:33] expected at all from the start of this and it's speaking on a metaphorical level that i enjoyed

[12:38] so yeah what did you guys think yeah i mean this was this was the the high point of the movie for

[12:43] me what do you think i mean it sums up the movie uh like the themes very well i do think there's

[12:50] like a certain part of it where i'm like i mean look i do feel people who have mental illnesses

[13:00] that cause them to be violent which is a very small portion of middle illness has been pointed

[13:05] out very very frequently that you know i don't know movies movies make it pretty clear that

[13:09] there's an army of maniacs that are out there uh and the fucking new york post yes well that's

[13:16] like a movie in newspaper form blame mental illness when those with mental illnesses tend to be uh

[13:21] victims more often than uh perpetrators but uh it's an odd thing where i do think the move the

[13:30] it it paints the themes well but it's also sort of like you should be really sad for this murdering

[13:36] well that is that is part of that's part of the issue with the movie is like hey this guy who you

[13:40] saw kill all those people he's really that he's the one who got hurt here but also i don't know

[13:44] that the cartoon i don't know the cartoon and the movie are buying into the mental illness uh right

[13:50] storyline to me it felt more like this was about he there's this duality in his character that

[13:55] everyone has but it's particularly bad in him well certainly he has the dark side of this perverse

[14:00] you know yeah i do think he rejects that by the end himself uh in the movie but that's the that's

[14:06] the note it kicks off on yeah we'll get there so um it then cuts to uh to live action uh arthur

[14:13] fleck uh played by joaquin phoenix uh looking very malnourished beaten up uh year this what

[14:21] seems like at least a year or so later after the events of the first film is currently imprisoned

[14:25] in arkham asylum awaiting trial there has been a tv movie about him and we see him uh we are

[14:32] introduced to him emptying out his piss bucket with all the other uh inmates he is uh tormented

[14:39] by his guards uh the lead guard jackie sullivan played by brendan gleason i checked a similar

[14:45] note from paddington too but he's on the other side of the bars this time he's a prisoner but

[14:51] i checked all his fingers were there which which makes me think there was some some trickery and

[14:56] lying on the on the on the set of uh banshees of indusheran you know yeah yes but movie magic i

[15:03] i'm glad that you answered the question that i had which is is that supposed to be a piss bucket

[15:07] because a lot of liquid out like a lot of liquid he's been standing it up he's been saying i thought

[15:13] the question was gonna be is that the same character as in paddington too yeah uh okay so

[15:18] he he has to meet his uh lawyer uh played by katherine keener her name is marianne stewart

[15:25] who is pushing him she is very protective of him and she doesn't seem honestly doesn't seem to have

[15:31] seems to have his best interest at heart and she is pushing for a plea of insanity uh with like an

[15:38] edge on like a disassociated behavior or like multiple personalities yes she's she's trying to

[15:43] sell the idea that he has multiple personalities and that arthur fleck cannot be found guilty for

[15:48] the crimes of the joker because he is a he's a a sick individual rather than a criminal heinous

[15:55] you know a perpetrator of horrible violent crime yeah kevin keener can't be unhappy when she shows

[16:00] up in always good always there's a great this movie has a great cast like yeah there's like

[16:05] steve coogan shows up in one scene and i was like didn't expect that and great yeah and i think

[16:10] they're all doing uh i would say good work with like what they are told to do like maybe yes what

[16:17] they are told to do i don't agree with yeah but they are executing it very well much like much

[16:23] like the film megalopolis there are a number of performers who are doing what they need to do in

[16:27] this film even though they're being they are running a great race even though the race is

[16:32] headed towards the cliff basically you know uh so uh arthur gets set up for music therapy i'm

[16:38] gonna jump around a little bit yes that's fine this is actually this movie clocking in at what

[16:42] two hours and 20 some minutes i would say is padded yes i i was saying to you guys over text

[16:49] i think there's a great 20 minute short buried in this two hour and roughly 20 minute movie yeah

[16:54] i mean the point has been made before but this movie to sum it up is essentially a court case

[17:01] litigating the first movie yeah yeah and which is an interesting choice you don't even get to

[17:07] the court case until over an hour into the film it's like it's you a lot of the movie is this is

[17:12] how depressing it is to be in jail and it's like yeah it sucks i get like that's what shawshank

[17:18] redemption is about we saw that like we don't you don't have to do a show us all of that there's a

[17:22] there's a version of this movie that shows joe elliot saying like who cares the american prison

[17:29] industrial complex that's exactly ready no i think from a storytelling point of view there's a

[17:32] version of this movie that opens with him pouring out a piss bucket him getting beaten up by the

[17:36] guards and then suddenly he's at his trial basically like or suddenly he's meeting lady

[17:41] aga's character there's just a lot of a lot of this movie is atmosphere and the atmosphere is

[17:46] let's just say you're incented you know there's a moment where he's being like right near the

[17:52] beginning where he's being uh taken by his guards from one wing to the other wing and they go

[17:57] through a like they go from one building to another outside and it's raining and all the

[18:03] guards open their black umbrellas and the rain is pouring down on him and he looks up and when

[18:08] he looks up you see all the umbrellas are different colors yeah and then it cuts back to them having

[18:13] black umbrellas and i'm like movie you're trying too hard here it's this movie has it has a lot of

[18:19] style it has a lot of ideas for how to present a story that does not have a lot of ideas in it you

[18:25] know like i think that it's it's got at heart again just like the first movie the production

[18:29] is great and but what the production is doing is yeah it's not up to the level of what the

[18:35] what everyone else's talents are you know so so arthur gets uh set up for music therapy in a like

[18:42] a lower security wing and that's where he meets lee quinzel played by stephanie germanotta you

[18:48] might know her by her stage name dan uh lady gaga yes indeed uh so she immediately takes a liking to

[18:58] arthur turns out that she is familiar with his case she has watched the tv movie many times and

[19:04] according to her she comes from a similar family background as him like they this is this is true

[19:09] love immediately and this is uh a very different take on harley quinn than uh we've seen the exact

[19:18] opposite of the traditional take on one that fits in this movie but not elsewhere yeah well i was

[19:24] gonna say because usually you know spoiler alert for the rest of this movie usually you know joker

[19:31] is sort of the manipulative uh character in the relationship the abusive one like in this film

[19:38] sort of she is shown to be kind of the poisonous one finally leading him down

[19:45] well no i mean like that's it's an interesting thing because it's like well i mean at least this

[19:50] movie's not buying into their like genuine like mad love bullshit where like you see like yeah

[19:56] that's a relationship goals like no this is a terrible relationship

[20:00] Do people really say relationship goals for Joker and Harley?

[20:04] There are some twisted types online.

[20:06] Oh, so the late Cormac McCarthy, yeah.

[20:08] Yeah, exactly.

[20:10] He fucking would love Joker.

[20:12] He would love it.

[20:14] But they replace that, they do that by making

[20:16] Joker the victim, kind of.

[20:18] There's no kind of.

[20:20] Joker is, I feel like

[20:22] between both movies,

[20:24] he is the victim here.

[20:26] They present him as

[20:28] relatively, despite a guy who murders

[20:30] people, I feel like

[20:32] the movie bends over backwards to make

[20:34] him as sympathetic as possible at all times.

[20:36] Yeah, I mean, yes.

[20:38] He's the victim

[20:40] of life, but even more so

[20:42] within the relationship dynamics.

[20:44] She

[20:46] seems to be the one

[20:48] to see him, but

[20:50] she sees the legend of the Joker.

[20:52] He's a sap, and she

[20:54] sees the figure. Instead of

[20:56] doing the problematic

[20:58] the Joker seducing a woman

[21:00] into a life of crime and

[21:02] a kind of violent relationship,

[21:04] they have gone to the much more progressive

[21:06] women are liars

[21:08] who will lead you

[21:10] down the garden path

[21:12] in a bad way,

[21:14] which is, you know, finally we're making some moves.

[21:16] Finally women can be blamed for

[21:18] problems in Joker movies.

[21:20] This was very funny because it was like, oh, so you're

[21:22] going for literally the oldest story,

[21:24] which is a woman leading a man wrong.

[21:26] You know, it's like...

[21:28] She's like, yo, dog, eat this fucking apple.

[21:30] And he's like, what?

[21:32] I mean, this is the movie. I wouldn't have surprised me

[21:34] if there's a scene in a movie where she hands him,

[21:36] a scene in this movie where Harley hands him an apple

[21:38] and he takes a bite, and the movie just stops and

[21:40] get it, flashes on the screen a bunch of times.

[21:42] But I will say this. Wait, I just want to say

[21:44] as the person who's currently writing the

[21:46] Harley Quinn series for DC Comics

[21:48] in comic stores now,

[21:50] I thought I was going to be more

[21:52] irritated by their handling of Harley Quinn,

[21:54] but this movie is so outside the world

[21:56] of the other DC Universe characters

[21:58] that it only bothered me in terms

[22:00] of, oh, they're just presenting

[22:02] her as a manipulative

[22:04] bitch, as opposed to, oh, they've

[22:06] done something to this character.

[22:08] She's so not the character, so it's fine.

[22:10] Yeah. And within the

[22:12] questionable strictures of the character

[22:14] they've given her, I think Lady Gaga

[22:16] is doing a great job at being

[22:18] this kind of

[22:20] hidden sociopath

[22:22] who has

[22:24] all these conflicted facets

[22:26] of her personality, like is drawn

[22:28] to this, but is ultimately

[22:30] a sickness for this

[22:32] relationship. It's compelling.

[22:34] She's doing a good job

[22:36] with kind of a weird version

[22:38] of this character.

[22:40] And so finally finding

[22:42] somebody who seems to understand

[22:44] him, this leads us to

[22:46] our first musical number

[22:48] from Arthur

[22:50] where, while watching

[22:52] the TV, he kind of bursts into song

[22:54] in front of the other inmates.

[22:56] Like a lot of the songs, I would say,

[22:58] you guys can correct me, but they seem to be

[23:00] standards. Yes. There's no

[23:02] original songs in the movie, as far as I can tell.

[23:04] They're all kind of like standards

[23:06] and Great American Sog

[23:08] book or like 70s and 60s. Or, yeah, later.

[23:10] I mean, there's Stevie Wonder in there. Yeah.

[23:12] But they're all well-known songs.

[23:14] It's not an original musical.

[23:16] And I would say

[23:18] Joaquin Phoenix

[23:20] has a, let's say,

[23:22] non-traditional singing voice.

[23:24] Lady Gaga, obviously,

[23:26] very talented.

[23:28] But I would say, I don't think

[23:30] any of their versions

[23:32] add anything

[23:34] to the songs that they're singing.

[23:36] No. Well, the weird thing with Lady Gaga is

[23:38] you've hired someone who has an amazing voice,

[23:40] but she's playing a character who cannot,

[23:42] who's not a singer. And so

[23:44] I read a little bit her talking about

[23:46] she had to sing

[23:48] in a different way and breathe in a different way

[23:50] than she normally does because

[23:52] this character does not have that training. And so

[23:54] even her singing is not

[23:56] great a lot of the time. Yeah. There are times later

[23:58] on when it's more fantasy, when she sings really well.

[24:00] But you get a lot of a great

[24:02] singer and a great actor

[24:04] kind of like doing hushed,

[24:06] not great versions of

[24:08] songs, you know. Yeah.

[24:10] This is something that I think could work really well

[24:12] in small doses in a movie.

[24:14] But this movie is also kind of like

[24:16] slathered with the characters. It's like

[24:18] whenever they don't quite know what to do with the characters,

[24:20] they start going like,

[24:22] hush little baby, don't say a word.

[24:24] Like they'll just start whisper

[24:26] songs to each other, you know.

[24:28] I would say that none of the musical,

[24:30] I could be wrong, but none of the musical

[24:32] numbers add anything

[24:34] except for run time.

[24:36] I don't know about that because I do like a bunch of them

[24:38] and I love whenever Joaquin Phoenix

[24:40] is in a fantasy musical number and is

[24:42] playing the Joker, playing to the audience,

[24:44] doing a lot of that stuff of like mugging

[24:46] and doing kind of hand motions. I love all that.

[24:48] He does a fantastic job with that.

[24:50] That's really good. Maybe that's the number

[24:52] in the courtroom later. I feel like it's probably

[24:54] the highlight of the movie.

[24:56] I wanted to say there were a couple that I liked.

[24:58] I liked his first

[25:00] number when he first breaks out in song

[25:02] and does a whole thing around the room

[25:04] with the inmates watching TV

[25:06] and he's doing it all with personality

[25:08] because as you say, his voice

[25:10] isn't amazing. He does a fine job

[25:12] but it's not his strength.

[25:14] I liked if they could see me

[25:16] now as they're escaping because it's a more

[25:18] dynamic scene

[25:20] overall what's happening

[25:22] but in general it's one of these things where

[25:24] I guess this is a musical for the same reason

[25:26] you referenced Pennies from Heaven

[25:28] before. I've never

[25:30] seen the

[25:32] miniseries, which I understand

[25:34] is better, but I never

[25:36] liked the movie because it only

[25:38] seemed to be like, hey

[25:40] you like the fun and escapism

[25:42] of musicals? Well, guess

[25:44] what? Life is shit.

[25:46] I'm going to rub your face in how life is shit

[25:48] and we're going to put some songs in there so it's even more

[25:50] ironic and it's like, yeah, I get it, man.

[25:52] It's not blowing my

[25:54] mind with this.

[25:56] It is similar to that. Did you guys

[25:58] like my version of Tom Waits doing Hush Little Baby

[26:00] earlier? I loved it. That was pretty fucking cool.

[26:02] Hush little baby, don't say

[26:04] a word. Oh, yeah, I love it.

[26:06] The devil's creeping

[26:08] in the bottle. That kind of stuff. It always

[26:10] turns into something about the devil or drinking.

[26:12] So, and also

[26:14] I feel like, I don't know if

[26:16] this is done explicitly. Stewart, he should be your favorite singer

[26:18] Tom Waits because you love weights lifting.

[26:20] I do love weights lifting.

[26:22] You're always lifting weights.

[26:24] And he's like, put me down, Stewart.

[26:26] And if you're going to ask me what my favorite

[26:28] drum was, I'd say it's the Toms.

[26:30] So,

[26:32] I don't know. They don't make this explicit

[26:34] but I feel like the start of these

[26:36] musical numbers coincides with him

[26:38] stopping to take, like,

[26:40] secretly not taking his medication.

[26:42] Oh, that's possible.

[26:44] To be honest, I kind of, yeah, I think

[26:46] I missed the connection there but I bet you're right.

[26:48] Guys, I watched this movie twice.

[26:50] Oh, Stewart, I'm going to give you a hug

[26:52] for that one.

[26:54] I just want to, I don't want to stop

[26:56] the forward momentum too much but that brings up

[26:58] a question. Why not, Dan? The movie keeps stopping the forward

[27:00] momentum. It just brings up a question

[27:02] for me about how this handles

[27:04] the music too that I wonder how you felt about

[27:06] where

[27:08] it is, all of the musical

[27:10] numbers are either dreams that

[27:12] he has or fantasies that he has.

[27:14] It never, like, truly

[27:16] seems to bleed into reality except

[27:18] for maybe the voicemail

[27:20] he leaves her on the phone.

[27:22] And that

[27:24] handling, like, I kind of,

[27:26] I don't know, I kind of wanted to see it

[27:28] break the bonds and

[27:30] mess up those lines a little bit more but what do you

[27:32] guys think?

[27:34] I don't know, I mean, I feel like that's part

[27:36] of why it, I feel like that's

[27:38] part of why I feel like

[27:40] my attitude that it doesn't add

[27:42] much is because it always feels like it's

[27:44] outside of the narrative.

[27:46] I mean, I think all a musical number needs to do,

[27:48] not to take you down, Stewart, harshly,

[27:50] I feel like all a musical number needs to do in a movie

[27:52] to add something is just be enjoyable

[27:54] and there are some that accomplish that

[27:56] but I agree that the rubric is so

[27:58] clear where it's like,

[28:00] this is the stuff, they feel like they can't say

[28:02] out loud, so they sing it

[28:04] and it does feel like once you've cracked

[28:06] that code, it's like, alright,

[28:08] and it's not like the songs make

[28:10] different points throughout, like a great

[28:12] musical, people are expressing different emotions

[28:14] through songs and with these it's

[28:16] mostly the same kind of

[28:18] two or three emotions but I think,

[28:20] but I do, I wish that they had a, I guess that's

[28:22] the difference between

[28:24] an artist like Todd Phillips

[28:26] and an artist like Bob Fosse is when you

[28:28] watch all that jazz, there are parts where you're like,

[28:30] this man is breaking down, I don't know

[28:32] where the line is between what's real

[28:34] and what's not real anymore and what he's

[28:36] presenting as in the mind of the character

[28:38] and what's happening, or like a

[28:40] Synecdoche, New York, which is not a musical, but has a

[28:42] similar sort of breakdown in reality

[28:44] where it's like, there's a certain...

[28:46] Let me re-categorize

[28:48] Synecdoche, New York in my

[28:50] DVD collection. You had it in the musicals

[28:52] No music section

[28:54] Right next to a raging bull

[28:58] But I think there's a, maybe that's

[29:00] the difference sometimes between

[29:02] a craftsman and an artist, is an artist making

[29:04] like a messiness that is

[29:06] more powerful in some ways than a

[29:08] well-crafted, you know, straight line

[29:10] Maybe it's just because I finished reading Sam

[29:12] Watson's book about Francis Ford Coppola

[29:14] and he makes every one of his

[29:16] movies sound like a phantasmagoric

[29:18] you know, kind of like

[29:20] a messy thrill ride, but

[29:22] maybe sometimes art needs to be messy

[29:24] and entertainment needs to be

[29:26] clean, and this one is like

[29:28] entertainment trying to be art maybe?

[29:30] I don't know, I don't know how to say it

[29:32] I don't know how to say it, but I'll

[29:34] keep talking, because that's what Elliot Kalin does

[29:36] And before we jump even

[29:38] further, we do have to point out that like

[29:40] the choice to make this

[29:42] movie arguably

[29:44] a musical, is also

[29:46] part of that like

[29:48] the edginess of it, and like

[29:50] pushing back against some of the fans, right?

[29:52] Is that the feeling, like that

[29:54] there's an effort to be like

[29:56] I'm not sure about that

[29:58] I think that that's possibly part of it

[30:00] it but it's but it's if so it's bungled so much by Todd Phillips like even though this

[30:07] is clearly as far as I'm concerned a musical it breaks into full musical numbers all the

[30:14] time like Todd Phillips actively was like don't call it though a musical though even

[30:19] though there's a bunch of musical numbers and it's like I mean it's as much of a musical

[30:24] as Amelia Perez which is considered a musical but I wonder if that was that by deliberate

[30:30] I feel like every choice I don't know that every choice he made was a deliberate like

[30:33] you want this well I'm giving you this you want a Batman movie well I'm giving you a

[30:36] musical because the fact is like Hollywood always likes to say that people don't like

[30:41] musicals but I don't know about Joker fans in particular but for most audiences I think

[30:45] if they know going in there will be music they enjoy it for the most part like yeah

[30:51] Wicked was just a huge hit and it wasn't and I bet you there's some overlap between

[30:55] people who like Joker and people like Wicked yeah it's all nerds right and like I think

[31:01] the and also like these days even incels like music I mean they don't necessarily like the

[31:06] Great American Songbook you know they you know they're more into the kind of stuff that

[31:09] Stewart listens to you know where it's all harsh and it's all anger at the world yeah

[31:14] yep it's all bring me to life by evanescence but I think but I do think there I do think

[31:18] the movie is doing certain things to like push back at the audience watching it but

[31:22] I don't know if making a musical isn't so that also like if you cast Lady Gaga in your

[31:25] movie and the audience comes in not expecting some music that's on them that's their problem

[31:30] that's their fault you know so let's get speaking of Lady Gaga oh yeah in the middle of watching

[31:36] a movie in the movie yeah well we're talking about it right now in the middle of watching

[31:40] a the inmates watching a movie in the like less secure wing they're watching the bandwagon

[31:47] yeah entertainment comes from which which becomes a motif in this one yeah Lee sneaks

[31:54] off to smoke a cigarette and she starts a fire in the piano which causes a big ruckus and in the

[32:02] tumult she and it does start a big ruckus yeah fucking yeah why do you interrupt me I was right

[32:09] so in the in the scrum she and Arthur like temporarily slip out like they temporarily

[32:17] escape they don't leave the grounds but they basically like run around outside and dance

[32:21] together it's fun I mean I will say this about this movie it is very if it's messy in any place

[32:26] it is messy in the amount of secure security precautions around Arthur Fleck who is somehow

[32:31] treated as the most dangerous man in Gotham and also allowed just free reign especially in the

[32:36] courtroom scenes it is bonkers the amount of rope that the judge gives him where are he's like

[32:42] intimidating a witness on the stand in the moment and the judge is like watch yourself counselor

[32:48] like it's like it's ridiculous but anyway I think in the rule book that says a joker can't be a

[32:52] lawyer so they get they get recaptured he gets dragged off and put into solitary he's visited

[32:58] by Lee in solitary confinement where she explains that she had she's leaving they're trying to

[33:03] separate the two of them yeah yeah thank you and in the but one before they go she smears some

[33:11] Joker makeup on his face and they have sex and I mean I think that this is a fuck you to Joker

[33:17] fans because it is clear that the mr. Arthur Fleck lasts about you know five or six seconds

[33:25] I mean he's got to be a virgin right yeah like what's that well I mean especially because yeah

[33:30] he looks at her like oh yeah that was cool right that was good he's like damn that's some

[33:35] gorilla like sorry I rocked your world Harley yeah need a minute yeah okay well he doesn't

[33:48] light a cigarette after after it which is weird because he's smoking throughout most of the movie

[33:52] for the first like third of the movie his lines are got a cigarette or can I have a cigarette

[33:57] that is it so shortly after this he he is set up for an interview with Patty Myers played by

[34:06] Steve Coogan and it seems to be American accent and he like he is able to play a like a jerk

[34:18] that's not over-the-top a jerk in a very like perfect he is he is I I mean I've heard mixed

[34:25] things about him as a human being in terms of just not being just being a jerk but when it

[34:30] comes to performance he is the he's my favorite asshole in television movies he is the best at

[34:35] playing an oblivious asshole a jealous asshole a competitive asshole he's so I think he's so

[34:40] funny and this I'd like it here so he's so good at playing an asshole reporter but even then it's

[34:44] like the movie is like isn't this guy a jerk look at the way he's treating our beloved Joker and

[34:49] it's like one of them is a murderer the other is just an interviewer yeah and so this this this

[34:55] interview seems to be broadcast live which is kind of wild and his his lawyer Catherine Keener

[35:03] is hesitant to have him do it but she thinks he's prepared for it and she's very it has this very

[35:09] like mothering aspect and at this point Arthur like goes to kiss her on the lips and it's one

[35:16] of these moments where it's like oh yeah this guy is so unused to anyone being nice to him that he

[35:22] becomes like obsessed with them so the interview basically devolves into him singing a love song

[35:30] to Lady Gaga Harley through the TV at this point we also learned that Harley has that Lee is kind

[35:40] of famous and has been doing interviews about him this is one of the weird things is that because

[35:46] it's so through Arthur's perspective I had a hard time understanding what leaves relationship with

[35:51] the rest of the world was like by the end of that movie at his final court day she is wearing Joker

[35:56] makeup on her face and the police are escorting her past a crowd into the into the court basically

[36:02] and I was like does the does the defendant's girlfriend usually get like when who clearly is

[36:08] a bad influence on him she's dressed up like him when he committed his crimes like does that the

[36:12] kind of thing that they need to make sure is in the room with him I mean that's a pretty cool outfit

[36:16] you don't want that to get ripped up by I mean to be honest it's the most Harley Quinn outfit she

[36:20] wears in the whole thing yeah you know it doesn't look that different from the outfit Harley Quinn

[36:24] wears in my current run on the book Harley Quinn from DC Comics in stores now and can I just buy

[36:30] that at a store you can just go to any comic book store it'll be on the shelves ask them to order

[36:35] the next issue for you if it's not there I don't think I like it like you know behind the counter

[36:40] going to like a special back room no not at all should be right there on the racks right there on

[36:44] the regular shelves you can go into that special back room Dan there's some interesting material

[36:48] if you want to if you want to read Faust you know blood of the damned or whatever it is that go to

[36:54] that back room but stay in the front room if you want Harley Quinn written by me yeah from DC Comics

[36:58] okay so the kind of books that Glenn Danzig publishes go to that back room oh that's super

[37:05] scary and also kind of sexy sexy and scary Joker follow you too yeah so the trial begins the DA

[37:15] Harvey Dent is the prosecutor assistant DA I'll let you go on yeah it's fine they they are seeking

[37:25] the death penalty and and again his lawyer is pushing for a multiple personality diagnosis

[37:34] oh one thing that I liked that this movie didn't do although I guess it's on Arthur's side so I

[37:39] don't see what it is so many of these movies have a lawyer who is like you can't kill my client

[37:44] because he's criminally insane and the movie presents them as if they're the real villain you

[37:49] know and Catherine Keener's character I feel like maybe it's just because I'm so sympathetic towards

[37:54] any character played by Catherine Keener even in being John Malkovich where she's kind of the villain

[37:58] like I but I think like she she is not presented as a person who has a wild like erroneous theory

[38:04] she's trying to do her best by her client she yes she doesn't seem to have an additional

[38:09] she's not using him for something yes yeah and also during this time like Lee shows up at the

[38:19] trial and she even in during a recess she even interrupts Catherine Keener's character while

[38:25] she's giving interviews to like yell at her and make a big scene and she made she makes a statement

[38:31] that when Arthur gets out they're going to they're gonna make a mountain out of a little hill and

[38:37] then walks off and one of the reporters is like what does that mean which is pretty funny yeah

[38:43] she's she's mad because in the course of you know trying to prove that he did these things because

[38:50] of his abusive childhood all you know all these things happened to him the the fact that he dealt

[38:56] with this you know by creating this Joker figure who is to blame you know he's mentally ill Harley

[39:05] feels like this is making him look weak like a fool like it's it's tearing down the legend of

[39:12] him that she has fallen in love with and this is something I wish the movie was like a little bit

[39:16] better at handling because it's clearly what it wants to handle which is the idea that this is

[39:21] a guy who has had a bad had a hard life and was broken by it and committed a crime and to the

[39:27] outside world he has become a figure that they can project their anger about the world on but

[39:33] we never see the outside world when they're like there are crowds of people out there cheering for

[39:37] the Joker we almost never see those crowds Lee is our only representative from that and she's so

[39:42] close to Fleck that it's hard to like I know it's it's so they made a choice to make it all through

[39:47] Joker's perspective but I do wish we had a little bit of a better idea of how the outside world is

[39:53] seeing him because he's so clearly a broken guy who committed a bunch of crimes and his

[40:00] The biggest crime was killing a talk show host on TV.

[40:02] So the idea that other people are like,

[40:04] yeah, he's taken down the systems that we need taken down

[40:08] is kind of ridiculous.

[40:09] Like, if somebody went on the air and killed Jimmy Fallon,

[40:11] I don't think that all these people

[40:13] would come out of the word group being like,

[40:14] yeah, it's time to take on the system, you know.

[40:16] Except Dan would.

[40:18] Except Dan would.

[40:19] Well, because the system Dan wants to take on

[40:20] is Jimmy Fallon.

[40:22] Yeah.

[40:23] Except the people who, you know, love the movie Joker,

[40:30] have this sort of like sympathetic,

[40:32] like, you know, like we live in a society attitude

[40:34] that I think that this movie is explicitly taking on

[40:39] in the character of Lady Gaga and being like,

[40:41] look, this is the real sociopath,

[40:43] the person who thinks that this is a good thing

[40:45] and projects their like own feelings onto it

[40:48] and wants to kill even though they have,

[40:51] haven't had a tragic life, all this stuff, you know.

[40:54] But I think she's so clearly,

[40:56] I mean, from moment one, I don't know if you guys,

[40:57] from moment one, I figured like,

[40:59] oh, she's playing a game.

[41:00] Like she's so clearly not a sincere character,

[41:03] whereas we live in a world

[41:05] where someone murdered a healthcare company CEO

[41:08] and that person became a hero

[41:10] to broad swaths of the population.

[41:12] Like that's what Joker is trying to get at.

[41:14] And I feel like there's a,

[41:16] in the real world version of it,

[41:18] it's so much more.

[41:21] Well, it makes more logical sense

[41:22] that someone would be hailed as a folk hero.

[41:25] For taking that kind of hit.

[41:26] And so the, maybe the movie hits me differently

[41:30] than it would have otherwise

[41:31] if a very similar circumstance hadn't happened

[41:33] in a more, in a clearer way.

[41:34] I don't know.

[41:35] And also the guy wasn't wearing fucking clown makeup

[41:37] when he did it, you know.

[41:39] So there's something about the,

[41:40] there's something about the bringing in,

[41:42] especially the end of people wearing clown makeup

[41:44] as like a go-to thing.

[41:47] I guess it's not that different

[41:48] from wearing Guy Fawkes masks or anything like that.

[41:50] I mean, they're all, you know,

[41:50] they're all Spartacus at that point, you know?

[41:52] You know, man?

[41:53] I guess that was the funniest thing at the end.

[41:54] Well, I guess we'll get to it.

[41:55] There's a guy who's driving Joker around

[41:58] and he's wearing Joker makeup

[41:59] and he's like, get your head down, get your head down.

[42:00] It's like, well, you're the one wearing Joker makeup.

[42:01] Yeah.

[42:02] He's gonna stop somebody, it's you.

[42:04] The, so at this point, you know,

[42:08] Arthur explains his plans with Harley to his lawyer

[42:12] who's like, actually, you know,

[42:14] she doesn't come from the same background as you.

[42:15] She actually lives on the Upper West Side.

[42:17] She has a healthy family life.

[42:20] She has a PhD in psychology.

[42:22] She was able to check herself in and out at will.

[42:26] Did you guys, did this affect you at all?

[42:29] Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

[42:30] I'm sure I am.

[42:31] They're like, she's from the Upper West Side.

[42:32] Her father is a doctor.

[42:33] And I'm like, oh, she's Jewish.

[42:35] I get it.

[42:36] Okay, she's an evil Jewess who is leading him astray.

[42:38] Thanks, movie.

[42:39] But maybe I'm just reading too much.

[42:40] Maybe I'm just too prepped, you know?

[42:42] I mean, I think that there's a context

[42:44] as a Jewish New Yorker that, or I mean, you know,

[42:48] New Jersey and who lived in New York for years

[42:50] that you're applying that like makes sense.

[42:54] But I think the movie's just trying to code it

[42:55] as like she had a privileged upbringing.

[42:57] She's one of the upper class.

[42:59] Is Quinzel a Jewish name?

[43:01] It was probably Quinzelovsky or Quinzelovich.

[43:04] They changed it, you know?

[43:05] And then they changed it to Quinzelos Island?

[43:06] Yeah.

[43:07] Yeah.

[43:08] And I do like-

[43:09] Ellis Island was for non-clowns.

[43:11] Quinzelos Island was for clowns

[43:13] immigrating to the United States, yeah.

[43:15] I'm sure this has been addressed before,

[43:16] but at one point-

[43:17] The Statue of Lafferty.

[43:18] That's where we're going.

[43:20] Yes.

[43:21] Jerry Lafferty?

[43:22] I'm sure this has been addressed before.

[43:24] Yeah, man, right down the line.

[43:26] He, they make a point at the start of the trial

[43:29] to say the people of New York versus,

[43:31] the state of New York versus Arthur Fleck.

[43:33] So I'm like, yeah, okay, officially Gotham is New York.

[43:35] Is part of New York, yeah.

[43:37] Okay.

[43:38] I mean, I feel like Eric Adams would be totally fine

[43:40] with a Joker running around.

[43:41] If ever there was a mayor who would fit in a Batman movie,

[43:45] it is Eric Adams for sure, 100,000.

[43:49] If ever I could see a mayor where Two-Face or the Joker

[43:52] or the Penguin would show up in his office

[43:54] and be like, we've got to make a deal.

[43:55] And him going, okay, man, let's figure it out.

[43:57] Like it's Eric Adams for sure.

[43:58] You mean the mayor who, when he won the like primary

[44:02] that he was definitely going to win no matter what,

[44:04] he was like, we did it.

[44:06] So I got myself diamond earrings.

[44:08] Like I pierced my ears.

[44:10] It's like, yeah, cool, thanks.

[44:12] I'm glad that was the promise he made.

[44:14] Okay.

[44:15] Again, wait.

[44:16] So we have the guy who shot the healthcare executive.

[44:19] We have Eric Adams.

[44:20] The real world is doing such a better job

[44:22] of being a gritty Batman movie, a realistic Batman movie

[44:25] than the Joker series is.

[44:27] You're upsetting me.

[44:29] Dan, it's Batman's world.

[44:30] We're just living in it.

[44:32] So Arthur confronts Harley about this information.

[44:36] She reveals that she did it all so that they could be

[44:39] together and guess what?

[44:41] She did it for the nookies.

[44:42] She's pregnant.

[44:43] She did do it for the nookie.

[44:45] In fact, that led to a pregnancy.

[44:48] It can happen the first time, Dan.

[44:49] So don't.

[44:50] It can, that's true.

[44:52] So when I do it for the first time, I'll remember that.

[44:54] Yeah, don't.

[44:55] You could get pregnant the first time, Dan.

[44:57] So please, you be safe.

[44:58] I don't want you to get pregnant without wanting it.

[45:00] On the other hand, she's smoking throughout.

[45:02] So she's like, I'm pregnant.

[45:03] Takes a puff, blows out smoke.

[45:05] And I was waiting for Arthur to be like,

[45:06] well, stop smoking.

[45:07] But it doesn't occur to him.

[45:09] No, it doesn't.

[45:09] He's too busy singing songs.

[45:12] Okay, so he, around now, he,

[45:15] I can't remember the exact order,

[45:16] but I think he dismisses his lawyer at this point.

[45:19] Yes, he takes over his own.

[45:22] He's gonna defend himself.

[45:23] The state brings his former coworker, Gary Puddles.

[45:28] Wait, this is after though,

[45:30] he shows up in court in Joker makeup,

[45:32] and they're like, you're your own counsel.

[45:34] A lawyer has the right to dress their client

[45:37] however they wish for a court.

[45:38] I looked up all the pertinent casework on those.

[45:42] There is no way, there is no way I could see

[45:45] if Donald Trump, because he's the president-elect,

[45:49] if he went in and he was like,

[45:50] I'm painting my face like a clown,

[45:51] then I could see him going like,

[45:52] oh, well, the rules don't apply to you.

[45:53] Yo, dude, if you go to a fucking boardwalk somewhere,

[45:56] there's gotta be a Donald Trump in Joker makeup.

[45:59] Yes.

[46:00] Like T-shirt.

[46:01] But the thing is, that same T-shirt,

[46:02] you could wear it to make fun of him or to support him.

[46:05] Depends on who's wearing it.

[46:06] That's a fucking genius move, dude.

[46:08] That's why you could sell it that way.

[46:09] But the idea that the judge is like-

[46:10] Sure, it smells like weed and incense,

[46:12] but like, you can wear that shit anywhere, man.

[46:14] Again, that is also a,

[46:16] that's also part of the Venn diagram in the middle.

[46:18] The idea that the judge is like,

[46:21] yeah, you should probably dress the way you did

[46:23] when you committed the crime that you're on trial for.

[46:26] And then when this witness comes in,

[46:27] I'm gonna let you lean right close to him

[46:30] and talk and yell at him.

[46:31] And also, you get to interrogate him

[46:33] in a Southern lawyer voice.

[46:35] Like, the judge never butts in.

[46:38] The judge explicitly was like,

[46:40] okay, you can be your own lawyer

[46:41] as long as you don't turn this into a circus.

[46:43] And then he doesn't stop at the moment he starts doing the,

[46:45] like, I'm just a poor country lawyer.

[46:48] Dan, he literally walked in in clown makeup.

[46:51] Like, nothing gets more circus than that.

[46:53] Yeah, that's true.

[46:54] But I did say this about,

[46:56] I will say this about the Southern lawyer voice.

[46:58] He sticks with it for a long time.

[47:01] I didn't like it when he started,

[47:02] and at a certain point I was like,

[47:03] damn it, I gotta respect it.

[47:04] He's still doing it.

[47:05] He's still doing it.

[47:06] Yeah, a commitment to the bit that, you know, is unmatched.

[47:09] So his former coworker, Gary Puddles, comes up,

[47:12] and he is a character who I feel like,

[47:16] based on the first movie,

[47:18] you would hope that he is gonna be sympathetic toward Arthur.

[47:21] Like, he was Arthur's kind of one friend.

[47:24] And, of course, the picture that he paints

[47:27] is one of Arthur being dangerous and scary.

[47:31] And how he has lived in fear since this,

[47:35] you know, like, these killings happened.

[47:37] He's been terrified since, like, you know,

[47:39] the Joker tries to be like, I didn't hurt you.

[47:41] Like, you're my friend.

[47:42] He's like, you didn't hurt me?

[47:43] What are you talking about?

[47:45] All of these things have, like,

[47:47] ruined my life in certain ways.

[47:49] And this is a moment in the movie,

[47:51] and Arthur's genuinely affected by it.

[47:53] And I was thinking about, like,

[47:54] why does this moment in the movie,

[47:56] like, this is a scene that works for me.

[47:58] I was gonna say the same thing.

[47:59] I think this is-

[48:00] Affective.

[48:01] This is the best non-musical scene in the movie to me.

[48:03] The only thing I don't like in it

[48:04] is the shot of the phone book

[48:06] that Puddles is sitting on to get to reach the witness stand.

[48:10] I was like, unnecessary.

[48:11] But you're right.

[48:11] When he says, I'm afraid,

[48:14] I'm scared all the time.

[48:15] And Joker drops his voice and goes,

[48:18] you're my friend.

[48:19] Like, I wasn't gonna hurt you.

[48:20] I'd never hurt you.

[48:21] And then when the guy's like,

[48:22] you were the only one who didn't make fun of me.

[48:24] Like, basically, why did you do this?

[48:26] I think it's the only real emotion moment

[48:29] in the whole movie, basically.

[48:30] That's what I was going to say.

[48:31] Like, I think that this movie

[48:33] wants to be a movie about, like,

[48:37] you have empathy for the wrong things, right?

[48:41] Like, you are, you love this legend of the Joker.

[48:45] You should not feel that way about it.

[48:47] You should feel sad for this, you know,

[48:50] mentally ill man.

[48:51] You should be sad for, like,

[48:52] the damage that has been caused.

[48:54] You should feel empathy.

[48:55] But this is the only scene in the movie

[48:57] that I think actually has any empathy,

[48:59] whereas the rest of the movie

[49:00] is very mean to all of its characters.

[49:02] Yeah.

[49:03] It reminds me of something Todd Solon's once said,

[49:06] where someone asked him, like,

[49:07] do you like any of your characters?

[49:09] And he's like, I love all my characters.

[49:10] That's why I have to make these movies about them.

[49:13] And it's like, really?

[49:13] Because all your movies are just

[49:15] putting people through hell.

[49:17] So I don't know if you're communicating

[49:18] the love that you feel for these characters.

[49:20] And this movie is a little bit like that,

[49:22] where it thinks that it is making Fleck sympathetic,

[49:25] I guess, by, like, shitting on him

[49:27] and beating him up constantly.

[49:29] But this is, yeah, this is the one moment

[49:30] where he connects with another human being

[49:32] in a genuine way.

[49:32] Yeah, I agree.

[49:33] I thought this was, I was like,

[49:34] oh, if this was the movie, this would be a great movie.

[49:36] You know?

[49:37] They also bring his former neighbor, Sophie,

[49:40] played by Zazie Beetz, to the stand.

[49:43] And she had a relationship with Arthur's mother.

[49:47] And a lot of her testimony is basically

[49:49] saying all the horrible things Arthur's mother used to say.

[49:52] Yeah.

[49:54] And it's very much a, like,

[49:56] and it's painting, again,

[49:57] painting Arthur as a potential.

[50:00] dangerous, certainly pathetic figure and no amount of like clown makeup can make

[50:06] him get get the strength back that he was I think that he was hoping to have

[50:11] going in in full Joker outfit. When it comes time to call his own witnesses he

[50:19] says he has none which I feel like don't you have to let the judge know in

[50:23] advance who you're you are supposed to you are supposed to give them I think a

[50:27] list of witnesses that time because also there's the whole discovery period

[50:30] where both sides have to share whatever evidence they have I mean there are

[50:34] surprise witnesses I guess so maybe there's almost all my courtroom

[50:38] knowledge is based on my cousin Vinny which is supposedly the accurate one

[50:42] your cousin Vinny is a great lawyer I mean he got Harvey wires it got

[50:47] Harvey Fierstein off the first couple times and Harvey Fierstein Harvey

[51:00] Weierstein because I was trying to say Harvey Weinstein I didn't want to say

[51:03] his name so I guess it turns out yeah and then I chose the wrong direction so

[51:06] right so forget it let's I won't make any more jokes and nothing like hearing

[51:09] Harvey Fierstein get off okay go on you want my cousin he's a great movie let's

[51:20] just go back yeah I was gonna keep pretending Stewart has a cousin Vinny

[51:23] who's a lawyer but let's not worry about it Arthur then like before before

[51:28] wrapping up for the day and before deliberations and whatnot he ends up

[51:32] like mocking the guards at Arkham Asylum which means that when he goes back led

[51:38] by Brendan Gleeson they beat him up real bad and assault him and strip him

[51:42] naked and there's what is there an implied sexual assault I think that is

[51:47] implied yes I don't know I wasn't sure and then they and then they and then

[51:51] they kill the other guy right they killed a guy yeah this causes him to

[51:57] Arthur when he goes in to give his final statement he renounces the Joker he

[52:02] takes full responsibility now he now he sits on a stool and holds a microphone

[52:07] like he's performing a show but he's just giving a speech do you think he had

[52:10] had to ask ahead of time can I have a stool and a microphone because nobody

[52:13] else uses a microphone unless they're in the witness box you know yeah I'm sure

[52:17] he had to he set that up in advance yeah he said the judge can I have a stool on

[52:20] a microphone and the judge was like there's no rule that says you can't just

[52:23] don't put on a show they the jury comes back after deliberations it was super

[52:32] short they find him guilty on all counts there is a as soon as the

[52:38] sentencing happens there is an explosion from a car bomb outside we get classic

[52:44] movie tinnitus sounds yeah and some Arthur manages to drag himself outside

[52:51] he's wandering the streets he bumps into a guy in Joker makeup who then rushes

[52:56] him to a car he is being escorted he's being driven away by these Joker fide

[53:02] fellows who as you mentioned before is like stay down so nobody sees you

[53:07] meanwhile two guys with Joker faces are fleeing or driving away from the scene

[53:11] the cops are like oh I only see two clowns in that car they're probably only

[53:14] two clowns in a car if I know something about clowns and cars it's hard to get

[53:20] more than two of them into one this is the sequence where the movie very

[53:24] briefly for like five or six minutes becomes Bo is Afraid and I was like oh

[53:27] okay it's turning into Bo is Afraid I liked most of that movie okay great

[53:31] oh yeah so he eventually like he escapes from them and he goes running down the

[53:36] street they chase him for a little while and even after he escapes from them

[53:39] they're shouting like hey we still like you he he ends up at the stairs near his

[53:46] apartment where he runs into Harley who is a famous stairs the famous maybe the

[53:52] greatest moment in cinema history when he high-kicks down the stairs to the

[53:56] hey song from the first movie wasn't that when you saw that moment wasn't it

[54:03] like oh finally film has reached the reason it was amazing it wasn't like

[54:07] flash entering the Speed Force oh you're right you're right flashing the Speed

[54:10] Force that's the only time ever you you reminded me how unexpected like even now

[54:18] I can't really wrap my head around the fact that was the song they yeah I

[54:22] told you I think did I ever mention this on the rule number one I don't

[54:27] remember which number it's not Mambo number five because that has a little

[54:29] bit of Jennifer in my eaves of the house yeah here if so I saw before I'd seen

[54:36] the movie I kept seeing on Twitter this one tweet that was like the great like

[54:41] the the greatest moment film the apotheosis of the Joker and just showed

[54:44] that guy walking to walk show one of the steps and finally I clicked on it to hear

[54:48] the sound and it was the hey song and I thought it was a joke video that

[54:53] somebody had made that that in order to make fun of that moment and then I

[54:57] watched the movie and I was like that's the real song you've been joker but

[55:03] that's a rock and roll part to the sequel Judgment Day so he he he finds

[55:08] Harley he is so excited to find her but she rejects him she wants the Joker she

[55:15] does not want Arthur and she abandons him and he is then he is then picked up

[55:20] by the police he's recaptured he's taken back to Arkham Asylum where all the all

[55:26] the fans who were like saw him being taken away in the car and we're like

[55:29] this is it this is when he becomes the Joker that fantasy is shot down

[55:33] instantly but the police take him in again yeah yeah and and Arthur both

[55:38] Arthur and the fans a fantasy is destroyed and you they're also like oh

[55:42] man we made it through two plus hours of this movie time for the Batman to show

[55:51] up so they while while be walking alone down a hallway he's confronted by

[55:57] another inmate who tells him the joke and then stabs him to death it's not

[56:02] much of a joke no I mean I'm not I I just said it was a joke I didn't qualify

[56:07] okay fair point I didn't say it was like a super hilarious you want to hear

[56:12] a joke and Arthur says yeah I mean like Arthur this is one of these cases where

[56:15] you know he seems to you know he goes out in a moment where he tries to be

[56:21] like a nice human like he seems like he's like oh you know someone's

[56:26] connecting with me yeah yeah connect with them as a normal person like yeah

[56:29] I'll sit here through your increasingly unfunny and insulting joke yeah then he

[56:36] gets stabbed stabbed for it yeah you get shanked and he collapses on the

[56:39] ground and in his dying moments he thinks about Harley he smiles a little

[56:45] bit and in the background we see that inmate carving his own face up the end

[56:51] of the movie and did you think this was in any way supposed to be a tip like okay

[56:56] fans you want it to be a Batman movie here's how the Heath Ledger Joker got his

[57:00] I just totally unrelated I think it is a a tip of the hat it is it done in a

[57:07] way that you can interpret how you feel but I think the fact that he's carving

[57:10] it into his face the smile of his face yeah is referencing that and it's like

[57:16] surprise you just watched two movies about a Joker not the Joker there was no

[57:21] article we didn't make any guarantees we never called the movie the Joker you

[57:26] it's kind of tough how's uh how's Arthur Flake and Joker gonna get out of this

[57:31] one it would be so funny if they hired somebody now they hire like like who's

[57:41] it was just like an action filmmaker I'm trying to think of one that's around now

[57:44] that they hire they hire one just to do a Joker 3 where he does get out of it

[57:47] and Joaquin Phoenix is like and running a crime gang and they got all the stunt

[57:54] choreographers that from the John wick movies but it is a lot of it is a lot of

[58:01] movie to never have him really be the Joker and he's just he's just a Joker

[58:06] yes the guy man okay so that's the whole movie we talked about the whole no

[58:14] credit scene I'll tell you right now still thank God I what having watched it

[58:17] twice I shut it off before any potential credit scenes our reward is getting to

[58:21] pass judgment on this film in our final judgments whether this is a good bad

[58:26] movie a bad bad movie or a movie kind of like I will say there's not a movie I

[58:33] kind of like there's a movie I sort of respected in a weird way like I'm like

[58:39] well I see what you're doing movie and I gotta say I guess you're successful at

[58:44] it I just don't necessarily care to see the thing that you're trying to do like

[58:50] and you know part of the point is the movie's trying to alienate me so I guess

[58:54] good work but the movie did exactly what I got to do which is make you not have a

[59:03] good time so I guess I'm gonna say bad bad but I also like I'm surprised that I

[59:09] didn't absolutely hate this after being sort of prepped to by the world what do

[59:16] you think Stuart yeah I mean I would I would say this falls into the bad bad

[59:20] category for me it is obviously it is professionally made a lot of talented

[59:26] people worked on it it's well acted but the it is like a big mess and it's in a

[59:35] way it's like so self-referential I find it to be more interesting than the first

[59:42] Joker which felt Joker one which felt very direct very specific like such a

[59:48] like a simple straightforward kind of piece of trash and this and this one is

[59:56] like kind of reflecting on it but

[1:00:00] I just, it doesn't, it ultimately, maybe it has stuff to say, but I don't like the way it's going about it.

[1:00:07] Guys, this may shock and, and terrify you, but I'm going to say the first half of this movie, except for that cartoon opening, I would call a bad, bad movie.

[1:00:19] But once it gets further into the trial, I guess at times it becomes a movie I kind of like, it doesn't sustain that.

[1:00:26] I don't like the ending, but I do, maybe it's because I disliked the first movie so much that this like was, was operating on that curve.

[1:00:36] But there are times when I was like, some of these musical numbers are really like, and there is one genuinely emotional scene that when we were talking about between him and puddles and the acting is all really good, the production is all really good.

[1:00:49] I think that first really monotonous, repetitive hour of the movie hurts it a lot.

[1:00:56] Um, but I think after that, um, it's starting to become a movie.

[1:00:59] I kind of like, and I stand by my statement that there is a good 20 minute movie kind of buried in this, or maybe even a good hour and a half movie or hour and 15 minute movie buried inside of it.

[1:01:09] But it, it spends so much time wallowing in its own, um, despair and its own pleasantness and grimness that I don't really like it, but there are parts of it that I kind of like.

[1:01:20] So that's why it's a kind of like rating, but that's also probably because I disliked the first one so much that if this is like, it's one of those things where it's like Joker fans, if you really liked that first movie, then anything that is an attack, like a direct rebuttal to that, I'm probably going to like a little bit because my tastes are the exact opposite of it.

[1:01:37] Yeah.

[1:01:37] It's like Joker one fans.

[1:01:39] This is what it's like to have enjoyed the last Jedi and then watch, uh, what rise of skywalkers.

[1:01:47] I can't remember the fuck I wonder if, and there's part of me, I also wonder like, see so much of how you feel when you see movies affected by where you are in your life when you see that movie, like clearly taxi driver is a much better movie than Joker.

[1:01:59] Like it clearly is.

[1:02:00] But when I saw it as a young man, when I felt very alienated and very disaffected, uh, and very lonely, that movie spoke to me in a way that now I find very uncomfortable that it spoke to me in that way because it's clearly about a person who's driven to madness and is, there's a reason why other people keep him at arm's length.

[1:02:15] And there's probably wonders if when I was 14, if Joker came out, maybe I would've been like, yeah, I get it.

[1:02:19] Like I'm unhappy all the time too.

[1:02:21] So, and then I would have seen Joker Folly do.

[1:02:23] And I would've been like, what?

[1:02:24] Huh?

[1:02:25] What?

[1:02:26] Hold on a second.

[1:02:27] When's he going to fight Batman?

[1:02:29] Huh?

[1:02:30] What?

[1:02:31] When's he going to beat Robin to death with a crowbar?

[1:02:34] That's cool stuff.

[1:02:35] This isn't cool.

[1:02:36] Joker did that?

[1:02:37] I mean, somebody should lock that guy up.

[1:02:40] They, you know what?

[1:02:41] They should kill that guy, Stuart.

[1:02:43] I don't care what Batman says at this point, his death toll is in the thousands.

[1:02:47] They should, they should kill that man.

[1:02:49] They should execute him.

[1:02:50] You know?

[1:02:50] Yeah.

[1:02:51] I mean, I try to kill him every time I play Injustice, the video game.

[1:02:55] And my opponent selects, uh, the Joker, which I feel like is weird that the Joker

[1:02:59] and Superman can fight it out in Mortal Kombat style, but you know, games, games

[1:03:03] are games, you know, games are games.

[1:03:05] You would think Joker would last about a second in that, in that fight, except

[1:03:08] that Superman won't kill, Joker will.

[1:03:15] Hello?

[1:03:16] Hannah?

[1:03:16] Yeah.

[1:03:17] It's Clint McElroy.

[1:03:18] Hi, Hannah Rack.

[1:03:19] Oh my God.

[1:03:20] Hello.

[1:03:21] I don't know if you know who I am.

[1:03:23] I do.

[1:03:24] I love the Adventure Zone.

[1:03:25] It is probably my favorite D&D podcast.

[1:03:28] You've been a, a, a faithful member of Maximum Fun since, uh, March of 2019.

[1:03:34] And this is them rewarding you as our Maximum Fun member of the month.

[1:03:42] It's awesome.

[1:03:43] I love it.

[1:03:43] So what made you decide to become a member of, of Max Fun?

[1:03:48] You know, it was so long ago.

[1:03:49] I'm not sure what the exact moment where I decided was.

[1:03:52] I think I've kept it up intentionally because a lot of those different

[1:03:57] podcasts have been there for me when I felt really alone and sad and

[1:04:00] just needed something to laugh at.

[1:04:02] Oh, well, that's Hannah.

[1:04:03] Thank you so much.

[1:04:05] Thanks for being a member.

[1:04:06] Thanks for being a TAS fan.

[1:04:07] Thanks for all the nice things you had to say about me specifically.

[1:04:11] And I guess my kids, I guess.

[1:04:15] If you're a Max Fun member, you can become the next Max Fun member of the month.

[1:04:19] Support us at maximumfun.org slash join.

[1:04:23] Jackie Cashion.

[1:04:23] Hi, and welcome to the maximumfun.org podcast, the Jackie and Lauren show

[1:04:28] where we talk about standup comedy and how much we love it and how much it enrages us.

[1:04:33] We have a lot of experience and a lot of stories and a lot of time on our hands.

[1:04:37] So, uh, check us out.

[1:04:39] It's one hour a week and we drop it every Wednesday on maximumfun.org.

[1:04:44] Let's, uh, take a moment to, uh, thank our sponsors, uh, this week.

[1:04:49] Uh, no, uh, the first sponsor is, uh, Squarespace who, uh, supported this episode.

[1:04:56] Uh, they're the all-in-one, well, they're sponsored.

[1:04:59] The episode was sponsored in part, but I tried to retrofit into that, uh, sentence

[1:05:03] construction didn't really work.

[1:05:05] Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.

[1:05:06] Uh, if you're wondering what it is, say you're the joker and you need a website,

[1:05:11] you go to Squarespace, uh, and you go to, uh, Squarespace.com, uh, and you

[1:05:16] are the joker and you need a website.

[1:05:17] You go to Squarespace, that's how you do it.

[1:05:20] Dan, that was seamless.

[1:05:21] The way you tied that into our episode, it's a platform for entrepreneurs

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[1:05:28] Uh, you can use it to build a beautiful, more personalized website.

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[1:07:09] where your money is going.

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[1:07:15] probably are subscribed to a bunch of stuff you don't even know you're

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[1:07:55] We've also got some jumbo trunks.

[1:07:58] And here's, here's one of them.

[1:08:02] Hey floppers, y'all are nerds and stuff, right?

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[1:08:56] We've got a personal jumbo Tron as well.

[1:08:59] This is a message for Denise.

[1:09:01] And the message comes from Brendan and it says a very happy birth day.

[1:09:06] I don't know if it's a typo or an in joke.

[1:09:08] So I'll just spell it out.

[1:09:09] B E R B T H D A Y.

[1:09:12] A very happy birth today.

[1:09:13] You are a social justice trailblazer, an incomparable dog

[1:09:16] parent, and the love of my life.

[1:09:18] Here's to a new year of silliness, spontaneity, and good, bad movies.

[1:09:22] And of course, lethal jerks, Sonic, baggy hands, and jumps

[1:09:25] abound from Rufio, Cassidy, and me.

[1:09:28] Your BIRB, love, Brendan.

[1:09:30] So I think BIRB earlier was a, was a purpose.

[1:09:34] That's a very sweet message from a BIRB.

[1:09:38] Uh, I should mention before we leave the promos section of this podcast, uh, did

[1:09:44] I mention that, uh, I'm writing Harley Quinn for DC comics and in comic stores now?

[1:09:48] You don't tell me about it.

[1:09:49] Tell me about it.

[1:09:50] It's just, it's really fun.

[1:09:51] It's I'm running, I'm writing a whole run on, uh, Harley Quinn, the DC comic series.

[1:09:55] And, uh, I think comic stores now, uh, if you'd like me, please buy it.

[1:09:59] Is that like the movie?

[1:10:00] just watched. It's actually nothing like that. It's a much more traditional take on Harley

[1:10:05] Quinn. Let's say that in that it is fun and funny and she's a wild character with her

[1:10:10] own rules that she plays by. But I should also mention we are coming to the end of flop

[1:10:15] TV season two. Everybody, it has been a great time. We have one more episode left, which

[1:10:22] is February 1st, the first Saturday in February. We saved the one. I don't know if I'll say

[1:10:27] the best, but certainly the one that meant the most to me as a kid for last Ninja Turtles

[1:10:32] 2, The Secret of the Ooze. That's right. The debut of the hit song Ninja Rap that that

[1:10:37] movie itself. Dan, I think you said you've never seen it. I've never seen it. I don't

[1:10:41] know how I've seen the first. I've seen the third. I've not seen Secret of the Ooze. Strap

[1:10:45] on those samurai swords, buddy, because you're in for a wild ride. You are. That's the flop

[1:10:51] TV season finale on February 1st at 6 p.m. Eastern, 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific. Go

[1:10:59] to the flop house dot SimpleTix dot com for tickets. If you haven't already bought any

[1:11:04] tickets, these shows, they're super fun. They've been going great. We had a great time talking

[1:11:08] about ski school, too, on the last one. And if you haven't watched any of them, you can

[1:11:14] still see the recorded videos from all the shows. If you get a season pass, which is

[1:11:18] six shows for the price of five, you get access to all the videos of the previous episodes

[1:11:24] and those will stay up through the end of February. Right. So even yes, even if you

[1:11:28] don't even if you aren't able to catch us on February 1st, you can still catch those

[1:11:32] episodes and it'll be really fun. It's all sequels this season. We did Robocop to break

[1:11:37] into Caddyshack to Highlander to ski school, too. And now Ninja Turtles, too. It's been

[1:11:42] really fun, guys. And there's only one episode left. Yeah. And if it's and if if, you know,

[1:11:46] if enough people like it, maybe we'll do a third season. I want to say I've I'm doing

[1:11:51] the presentation for this one. And I know I say a lot of the time, oh, I'm excited about

[1:11:55] this. I'm excited about this. It's just because I realize, you know, like the fun thing about

[1:12:00] the presentation for me. Sure. Like, look, I love making everyone out there and in flop

[1:12:04] land laugh. But mostly when I'm writing them, I'm thinking about whether I'm going to make

[1:12:09] Elliot and Stuart laugh. And that's a recipe for a good time writing these things. I got

[1:12:14] very silly and I'm looking forward to doing that. Oh, that was certainly my thinking when

[1:12:20] I did my video for the last episode where I taught everybody some common skiing terms

[1:12:24] that they should know the meanings of. Really informative. Yeah. Yeah. So that's flop TV

[1:12:28] season two. One more episode left. February 1st. Go to the flop house dot SimpleTix dot

[1:12:35] com. Thank you. Let us answer a couple of letters from Dan. Lettuce can't answer questions.

[1:12:43] It's a vegetable. All right. Oh, in that case, cabbage. Some letters. Oh, rugelach.

[1:12:53] This letter is from Finn. Last name withheld. Who writes, hey, floppers, I was recently

[1:12:57] talking with my mom. That's that's a subtle hit that this person is from the UK, I believe.

[1:13:03] My mom, Liz, not a mummy. Could be, too. And her best friend of 50 years, Laura. They were

[1:13:11] telling me about. Is that also a British thing that best friends of 50 years are named

[1:13:14] Laura? Yeah, that's. Uh huh. Well, the next thing is certainly a British thing. Taking

[1:13:19] a trip to Italy. They were telling me about the trip they took to Italy. I'm thinking

[1:13:23] of the movie Trip to Italy, starring starring famous assholes, Steve Coogan, Joker 2s, Steve

[1:13:29] Coogan. Anyway, this is Joker 2s. Yeah, I'm like the second sentence in on this thing.

[1:13:35] They're telling me about the trip they took to Italy in 2001 and mentioned they'd spent

[1:13:39] some time with Laura's Laura's aunt, Helen, an actress who lived in Rome. This triggered

[1:13:47] something in my brain. And I asked if Helen's last name was Sterling. Laura said that it

[1:13:52] was. And then I had the great pleasure of saying, have you ever heard of a movie she

[1:13:56] made called Castle Freak? Well, I had never heard of it. So I pulled it up on shutter

[1:14:00] and the three of us watched the opening sequence when the cat when the camera first cuts the

[1:14:05] face of the Duchess Dorsino, Laura said, that's her. That's Auntie Helen. And as the

[1:14:11] Duchess was whipping her deformed son with a cat and nine tails, Laura started cackling

[1:14:16] and saying, oh, Auntie Helen would have loved making this. When Helen's character died at

[1:14:20] the end of the scene, I turned the movie off and Laura made me teach her how to start a

[1:14:24] shutter account so she could show her daughter this previously unknown footage of a beloved

[1:14:29] family member. Yet another beautiful family moment, courtesy of your podcast and the cinema

[1:14:34] of Stuart Gordon. Keep it floppy, just like Georgio's very much attached. Ding dong. Ben

[1:14:40] last name withheld. Oh, New Zealand. New Zealand. New Zealand. That's why you read the whole

[1:14:45] letter first. Yeah. Yeah. I did. I did neglect to read that part. Mm hmm. That is so sweet.

[1:14:52] That's such a it's adorable to be like, hey, here's your aunt with her son. And I hope

[1:14:58] they did not watch the rest of the movie after that. She's not in it. And it's they signed

[1:15:02] up for a shutter account. I read the whole movie. They can watch it whenever they want.

[1:15:06] Yeah. Along with Psycho Goreman. Other other good reasons to watch the rest of the movie.

[1:15:11] Yeah. There's plenty of good reasons. Anyway, that was Jeffrey Combs and Barbara Crampton's

[1:15:17] insane chemistry. Yeah. I was very charmed by that. That's very charming. And we have

[1:15:24] a second letter here is from James Last Name Withheld, who writes, Dear Peaches, recently

[1:15:31] I found myself enjoying walks, having an afternoon cup of tea, getting excited about

[1:15:37] birds in my yard and listening to Steely Dan. My question for you is, is this what middle

[1:15:43] age is? And I have to say that in my experience, yeah, pretty much. Also, old age. Yeah. Yeah.

[1:15:50] I do only have one Steely Dan album that I listen to very infrequently, but that is more

[1:15:56] than my youth when I would make fun of the very idea of Steely Dan being anything anyone

[1:16:00] would want to listen to. Which is ironic since they called you Steely Dan when you

[1:16:03] were still shoplifting for a living. That was after the dildo that the band was. I see.

[1:16:09] I thought it was after the band. I didn't realize. After the same sex. Went back to

[1:16:13] the originals. Dan looks a lot like that metal dildo. I feel like I have. Yeah. In my middle

[1:16:21] age, I do enjoy walks much more than I did before. And birds. And birds. Man. I'm still

[1:16:27] holding the holding the line against Steely Dan. Maybe you guys have you guys ever like

[1:16:31] walked and stood at the edge of a pond and just looked across the expanse of water for

[1:16:35] a little while? Yeah. Yeah. That's really wonderful. Yeah. Pretty good. Maybe then after

[1:16:41] a long walk. Have you ever like had a good sit? Oh, yeah. I guess. What about a cold

[1:16:47] glass of water? Oh, wild man. Delicious. Well, I guess this is our next. Yeah. I mean, this

[1:16:59] is because if you guys ever smelled a fresh baked bread, I baked it. I feel like I feel

[1:17:05] like it's more we're doing the podcast of Joe Paratox to you at this point. Yeah, that's

[1:17:11] great. If only. Well, those were letters. Have you guys ever given a hug to somebody

[1:17:18] that means a lot to you? Probably not enough. I mean, that I did before I was in middle

[1:17:23] age also. I don't know. You know, it does feel different. That's true. Hey, guys, ever

[1:17:31] have you guys ever looked at your kids and been like, let me memorize this moment because

[1:17:34] I know they're going to grow up so fast and they're not going to be this age forever.

[1:17:38] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cats don't muscles and meatball every time I look him in the eyes.

[1:17:43] I mean, I do occasionally drive myself to tears thinking these cats won't be around

[1:17:48] forever. And then I'm like, why am I thinking this? Yeah. Stop it, Dan. Yeah. Yeah. It's

[1:17:54] not helping at all. Yeah. Take another edible day and calm down. He's like, but brain, I've

[1:18:01] had seven already. OK, well, let us move on to recommendation. It's a vegetable. OK,

[1:18:10] so I move on to recommend. That's why that's why cats in the cradle is called that, Dan,

[1:18:16] because cats are children. That changes the whole movie. This is the whole song. If he's

[1:18:21] singing about his cats the whole time. Yeah. Yeah. Meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow,

[1:18:27] meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow. Yeah. Yeah. It takes me back. Well, I fed my cats

[1:18:32] just the other day. Yeah. Keep it going. Let's write a man. I don't know enough about cats.

[1:18:38] Recommend, you know, they lick themselves, et cetera. They lick themselves in the very

[1:18:43] same way. Let's recommend movies that may be a more rewarding way to spend your time,

[1:18:51] particularly since the Joker Joker 2 is so long. I'm going to kick us off and in honor

[1:18:59] of Elliot, I'll honor him in the smallest way because the poor man is so small by recent

[1:19:07] life events in on the coast. I'll honor him in the smallest way by recommending. Don't

[1:19:13] recommend backdraft. That would be super sensitive. That would be very taxing. A 1930s movie.

[1:19:19] Oh, I recently watched 30 Day Princess from 1934, a movie that is on Criterion channel right now.

[1:19:29] It is part of the Love in Disguise collection that's disguised in the sky. It's like not

[1:19:35] this guy. No, not this guy. So, you know, you got stuff like the lady there, you know,

[1:19:41] major in the minor. There's deception in a love story. But this is why you were texting me about

[1:19:47] Sylvia Sidney. You put the Mr. Policeman. I gave you all the clues. And unlike Harry Hula,

[1:19:55] you take a long time to put those clues together. You did it right away.

[1:20:00] because of Cary Grant being in it and I saw the screenplay was co-written by

[1:20:04] Preston Sturgis and it's a 70-minute movie and I was like okay you're winning

[1:20:10] me over but really the the the headline here is Sylvia Sidney who I you know had

[1:20:19] seen I realized later on you know I had seen her early in her career and a

[1:20:23] couple of things fury sabotage but didn't put her together with the woman

[1:20:30] that I you know like the parts I knew her best from Juno and Beetlejuice

[1:20:34] grandmother and Mars Attacks you know at sort of at towards the end of her career

[1:20:38] when she was a much older woman but here as a very young actress she's sparkling

[1:20:44] she's very funny she didn't get a chance to do comedy a lot I understand but

[1:20:48] she's great here in a dual role as a princess and as a sort of brassy dame

[1:20:55] who's an actress who's hired to pretend to be a princess and it never hits like

[1:21:02] kind of the screwball pitch that maybe I would want for it to be like super funny

[1:21:06] but it was definitely a charmer of a movie and I enjoyed it so 30-day

[1:21:12] princess Stewart that sounds good I'm gonna watch it I'm gonna watch that when

[1:21:18] I get back to my home yeah I'm gonna recommend a movie that just came out on

[1:21:23] Christmas Day it's pretty scary it's called baby girl just kidding it's not

[1:21:32] scary at all it's supernatural and just doing what your body wants yeah it is

[1:21:38] supernatural so space natural or super compound word natural baby girl stars

[1:21:46] Nicole Kidman defines baby girl s uh-huh baby girl and kid manner it's very funny

[1:21:56] that kid man stars in baby girl yeah it makes a lot of sense now well you will

[1:22:00] get we'll get to some more of these so Nicole Kidman plays a high-powered

[1:22:05] executive who's got a family and a long night what 19-year marriage and she

[1:22:11] starts up an affair with a young intern at her job played by Harris Dickinson no

[1:22:19] jokes there no jokes about dick it's okay okay perfectly normal okay I don't

[1:22:25] understand even where you would start making a joke okay so and the it is a

[1:22:33] like it is an erotic thriller that plays with power and control and how Nicole

[1:22:41] Kidman's character is like kind of secretly longing for a loss of control

[1:22:46] or giving herself over to someone else's power and it ends up like it's a movie

[1:22:52] about like yearning and wants specifically like wants that you have

[1:22:57] trouble voicing or you're embarrassed by and I found it to be really well done

[1:23:02] and sexy and funny and yeah it was good time of the movies you know take your

[1:23:09] parents I've been wanting to see that I have a digital screener through the

[1:23:12] guild and have not been able to make time yet it's got Tony B in it Antonio

[1:23:16] Banderas well Tony B yeah tell me billionaire I may have I may have made a

[1:23:38] mistake in introducing my younger son to uh to uh to Tony Miller's work he did

[1:23:45] these books called why am I fading the names of them now he did these two books

[1:23:51] about a character where mice make a character out of trash and a little girl

[1:23:55] kind of becomes his friend and he's like he's like a Billy Hazelnuts that's what's

[1:23:59] called so it's like he's always like let's read Billy Hazelnuts again and I'm

[1:24:03] like but we're not looking at any other Tony millionaire stuff right because I

[1:24:06] think you're ready for it I have a movie I'd also like to recommend and then we'll

[1:24:09] put this episode to bed shall we yeah I recently watched a movie I liked a lot

[1:24:16] it was a Japanese movie from 1959 it's called good morning is it from Yasujiro

[1:24:21] Ozu yes it is one of the masters of Japanese film you can tell because his

[1:24:26] movies a lot of them have titles that are just a time of year or a time of day

[1:24:29] and are very hard to keep track of I believe I recommended his movie early

[1:24:34] autumn at one point already but it might have been it might have been late summer

[1:24:38] I don't remember but good morning is a it's kind of a it's a short little slice

[1:24:43] of life movie about the people who live in a very small neighborhood and the

[1:24:48] main if you can call it the main story is these two brothers who want a

[1:24:52] television they really want their parents to get them a TV so they decide

[1:24:54] they will not talk until they get a TV and this has caused those problems for

[1:24:59] them it causes problems for their parents but there's a couple other kind

[1:25:01] of small subplots that are running throughout the neighborhood at the same

[1:25:05] time and ultimately it's kind of a movie about how important the little

[1:25:10] things that people say to each other good morning how are you the things that

[1:25:14] to a kid seem pointless or boring how important those things are in just

[1:25:17] keeping people close together and connecting people and I thought it's a

[1:25:22] really beautiful movie but at the same time there's a bunch of fart jokes in it

[1:25:25] the kids have have they have a trick that they like to pull with their friends

[1:25:28] where they tap each other on the forehead and then fart afterwards so so

[1:25:32] I was like this movie this is a this is a really sweet little movie but it's

[1:25:36] also got fart jokes in it so how can you go wrong yeah it's called good morning

[1:25:39] from 1959 well guys you know it was good to see y'all I am glad Elliot you were

[1:25:48] able to join us we weren't sure it was gonna happen and I'm glad that this is

[1:25:54] actually as you said a respite for you from things rather than another horrible

[1:26:00] thing to deal with I'm glad you are all well over there and yeah me too I feel

[1:26:09] that way too thank you Stuart thank you

[1:26:17] and I would like to thank our network maximum fun please check out the other

[1:26:23] shows on the network I'm sure you'll like at least a couple they're all good

[1:26:29] shows I don't know people's tastes I don't want to over promise I'd like to

[1:26:33] under promise and over deliver fair point fair point yeah and thank you to

[1:26:38] Alex Smith our intrepid producer he goes by the name Howell Dottie on various

[1:26:44] socials you can listen to his music you can watch his twitch streams he does a

[1:26:48] lot of great work under his own auspices yeah best best in the biz that guy we

[1:26:53] went out for a little holiday meal down in nap town Indianapolis where we were

[1:26:59] at a bar and some women offered us free Justin Timberlake tickets and I gotta

[1:27:03] say we considered it that's a show of how great Alex is yeah yeah it's a sort

[1:27:10] of magic they didn't offer him to me they offered him to Alex unless maybe

[1:27:13] they were too intimidated to offer him to me and it does happen it'd be anyway

[1:27:19] thank you as always for listening for the Flophouse I've been Dan McCoy now

[1:27:24] I've been Stuart Wellington and I've been Elliot Kalin saying if your wallet

[1:27:28] happens to be as full as your heart please do reach out and help the people

[1:27:33] affected by the fires in Los Angeles thank you for listening and thank you

[1:27:37] for being there for us

[1:27:39] hey Stewie, this is your brother Huey, you wanna hear this song I made? Listen to this, right, that's how it goes in Back to the Future

[1:27:59] yeah he's like hey Alvin it's your cousin Leroy Chipmunk, you wanna hear a new sound, you wanna hear it?

[1:28:07] listen to this I guess it's called Alvin and the Chipmunks because it's

[1:28:15] like you know Paul Revere and the Raiders or whatever but like Alvin's also

[1:28:19] a chipmunk you know yeah yeah it should be Dave and the Chipmunks it should be

[1:28:23] Dave Seville and the Chipmunks yeah anyway Dave's such a fucking dork

[1:28:28] I mean that's his that's his part he's like fucking John Arbuckle he's

[1:28:33] defined by his pets rather than by anything he does like Jane Goodall yeah

[1:28:37] a lot thank you somebody had to take her down

[1:28:44] take the chimps away, what do you got?

[1:28:49] no one else is brave enough to say it I'll just say it without David Greybeard

[1:28:53] Jane Goodall's got nothing you know yeah yeah what's she gonna do find the cure

[1:28:57] for cancer and lose it I don't think so it's been done before

[1:29:02] maximum fun a worker owned network of artists owned shows supported directly

[1:29:08] by you

Ep.#442 - Joker: Folie à Deux

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