The Flop House: Episode #59 - Law Abiding Citizen

Dan McCoy

[0:00] After a month-long break, the Flophouse gang is together again to try and abide law-abiding citizen.

[0:30] Hey everyone, and welcome to the Flophouse. I'm Dan McCoy.

Elliott Kalan

[0:37] I'm Stuart Wellington.

[0:39] It's been so long since we've done this. I wonder, wait, can I remember? Yes, I'm Elliot Kalin.

[0:43] Yeah, it's been like a month, guys.

[0:46] In podcast terms, there's a new generation of listeners.

Dan McCoy

[0:50] We have lost all of our past listeners.

Elliott Kalan

[0:52] I prefer to think of it as the podcast went into the Disney vault for a while.

[0:57] And now that we're out again, people will be more excited about it.

Dan McCoy

[1:00] I prefer thinking of it as we burn down some old-growth forest, and now we're going to tend a new crop.

[1:08] So what happened to all of our old listeners?

[1:10] We burned them.

[1:12] We literally burned them. That's why it's been a month.

[1:14] We've been going from town to town throughout the U.S. and burning them alive.

Stuart Wellington

[1:18] So all of our pretty young female listeners are now hot milfs?

[1:24] What?

[1:25] Why are you just burning them?

Dan McCoy

[1:27] Turning them to hot milfs.

[1:29] Because I like scars.

[1:30] Oh, okay.

[1:31] It adds character.

[1:33] Yeah.

[1:33] So you think that they all...

[1:34] It burns. Burns pretty gross.

[1:36] You think that they all got pregnant and delivered their children in that time period?

[1:41] In that month.

[1:41] Yeah, probably.

[1:42] Okay.

[1:43] Well...

[1:44] That's how it works, right?

[1:45] Let us know if there are any flophouse babies born in the last month.

[1:50] Sure.

Elliott Kalan

[1:51] We'll dedicate a show to them.

Dan McCoy

[1:52] Yeah.

[1:53] And by flophouse babies, I mean that you must have conceived them while listening to us.

Elliott Kalan

[1:57] I thought it was the cartoon series where it's you, me, and Stuart as babies, and Nana takes

[2:02] care of us, but we never see anything but her feet.

[2:04] Do we live in a castle?

[2:05] We live in a castle.

[2:06] And we use our imagination to have adventures.

[2:08] Okay.

[2:08] I like that.

Dan McCoy

[2:10] Could we do that?

[2:13] That's a literal lift from the Muppet Babies theme.

[2:16] Okay.

[2:16] What about this?

[2:19] Muppet Babies?

Elliott Kalan

[2:20] You're just singing the same thing over again.

[2:22] That's different.

[2:22] It's a different song.

[2:23] That one's better.

Dan McCoy

[2:24] Okay, guys.

[2:25] Well, I've almost forgotten what we do on this podcast.

[2:28] We watch movies.

[2:29] Yeah.

[2:30] Bad movies, I think.

[2:31] And then what do we do afterwards?

[2:32] We discuss them.

[2:33] Hmm.

[2:34] And...

[2:35] We discussed them?

[2:36] We discussed them.

[2:37] Sometimes.

[2:39] And this fine day, for it is a day, we're recording during the day for once.

Elliott Kalan

[2:43] It's a beautiful day.

[2:44] We're really sacrificing our day.

Dan McCoy

[2:45] We should be outside playing some Ultimate Frisbee or...

[2:48] Yeah, or some other hippie thing that hippies do.

[2:51] Do it like a drum circle.

Elliott Kalan

[2:54] Like with devil sticks.

Dan McCoy

[2:55] Where are you from?

[2:56] Outside of a fish show.

[2:58] Uh-huh.

[2:58] But instead, we're inside watching Law Abiding Citizen.

[3:03] What?

[3:04] I could not say that name.

[3:06] We saw the movie.

[3:07] Do it over, dude.

[3:08] For one, I haven't even been drinking like I normally do during these...

[3:11] Maybe that's the problem.

[3:12] Yeah.

[3:12] We're like Christopher Hitchens.

[3:14] We watched Law Abiding Citizen starring Gerard Butler.

[3:18] Gerard Butler.

[3:19] Yeah.

[3:20] Our favorite actor.

Elliott Kalan

[3:21] Yep.

[3:21] He's been in more flops than any other that we've talked about, right?

Dan McCoy

[3:24] And also Jamie Foxx, who was in one of the first movies.

[3:27] The first.

[3:27] Literally the first one.

[3:28] The first.

[3:28] Stealth.

[3:29] Stealth.

[3:29] I wasn't here for that one.

Stuart Wellington

[3:31] Well, it was a really bad movie.

Elliott Kalan

[3:33] Mm-hmm.

[3:34] But Jamie Foxx was in it.

[3:35] How is that possible?

Stuart Wellington

[3:36] I know.

[3:36] It's hard to believe.

[3:37] I think part of it was that it was basically just a ripoff of 2001, and I think that was

[3:43] it.

Dan McCoy

[3:44] A little short circuit thrown in.

[3:45] Yeah, that's true.

Elliott Kalan

[3:46] I wish 2001, Hal hadn't been evil.

[3:49] He'd just been kind of a bumbling and confident computer.

Dan McCoy

[3:51] If I recall, at the end of Stealth, the evil plane that was killing everyone did become

[3:59] good again.

[4:00] Like, it realized the error of its ways.

[4:02] Yeah, I think it might.

[4:03] I don't remember.

[4:03] Yeah, let's not talk about Stealth.

[4:05] We didn't watch it.

Elliott Kalan

[4:05] Well, it learned that it's a curious game.

[4:07] The only way to win is not to play.

Dan McCoy

[4:09] Yeah, sure.

[4:10] But likewise, the game that Gerard Butler was playing.

[4:14] The game of justice.

Elliott Kalan

[4:16] Mm-hmm.

[4:17] Armed justice.

Dan McCoy

[4:18] The only way to win is to not have your wife and mother of your child and your child die.

Elliott Kalan

[4:25] It's as if the wife and the mother of the child were two different people.

[4:28] Sometimes it is, dude.

[4:29] That's true.

[4:30] Should we explain the plot of this film?

Dan McCoy

[4:32] Yeah, why don't you go through the labyrinth and twists and turns?

[4:35] Oh, sure.

Elliott Kalan

[4:36] Gerard Butler plays an engineer of some kind who has an adorable daughter.

[4:39] He's like an inventor.

[4:40] Yeah, and a wife.

[4:41] Within the first four minutes of the movie, maybe within the first three minutes, Gerard

[4:46] Butler's wife is stabbed and raped and the daughter is killed off screen and presumably

[4:52] also sexually assaulted.

[4:54] And Gerard Butler is stabbed in the gut.

[4:56] Wait, you presumed that?

[4:58] I mean, they were...

[4:58] It's pretty implied, I think.

[5:00] Okay.

[5:01] Maybe then.

[5:01] The bad guy does go, kids love me.

[5:03] Yeah.

[5:03] Oh, okay.

[5:04] And then brings her into another room.

[5:05] That makes sense.

[5:06] Terrible.

[5:08] Terrible stuff.

[5:10] These...

[5:10] The two of them...

[5:11] It's two criminals.

[5:12] One of them is really bad and the other is just an accomplice.

[5:15] The really bad one agrees to turn state's evidence on the other one in exchange for a lighter

[5:23] sentence.

[5:23] Mm-hmm.

[5:24] Gerard Butler's very unhappy about this because one of the guys is going to go to the...

[5:28] is going to be executed, but the other one is going to go free in a couple years.

[5:32] Jamie Foxx is the prosecutor for the city of Philadelphia who makes this plea deal in order

[5:40] to get one conviction in the fear that otherwise he would get no convictions.

Dan McCoy

[5:42] He's like an assistant district attorney or something like that.

Elliott Kalan

[5:45] Yeah, but as he says, he's like, we don't have a...

[5:47] He's saying to Gerard Butler, we don't have a case.

[5:50] But they do have an eyewitness and DNA evidence of some kind saying that the victim's blood

[5:56] was found on the perpetrators.

Dan McCoy

[5:58] Elliot, Gerard Butler blacked out for a few minutes, so that makes him an unreliable witness.

Elliott Kalan

[6:04] Doesn't make sense.

Dan McCoy

[6:05] No, even if you see someone's face, if you black out thereafter, legal president says that

[6:11] you cannot be an eyewitness.

[6:14] That's the way it works.

[6:16] Our legal system is messed up.

[6:18] That's what the movie is all about.

[6:19] Someone should teach that legal system a lesson.

[6:21] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[6:21] Okay, flash forward 10 years.

[6:23] What?

[6:24] Wow, everything's different.

[6:25] No one has aged.

[6:26] Technology is exactly the same.

[6:28] Styles.

[6:29] It seems like the only reason that they flash forward 10 years was, I guess, to give Gerard

[6:34] Butler time to plan his plans, and also so that Jamie Foxx's unborn daughter in the first

[6:39] couple scenes can grow up to be old enough to play the cello in accompaniment to some of the

[6:44] other scenes.

Dan McCoy

[6:45] Yeah.

[6:47] That's a good enough reason.

[6:48] So one of them is just getting executed now.

[6:50] I suppose there's a lengthy appeals process.

[6:53] That makes sense.

Stuart Wellington

[6:54] People stay on death row for a long time.

[6:55] Yeah, it's all this.

[6:56] Yeah.

[6:57] You would have thought at some point somebody would have listened to him when he said that

[7:01] he didn't actually...

[7:02] Because the guy who's getting killed, right, he didn't actually do anything.

[7:06] Well, he was there, but he didn't...

Elliott Kalan

[7:07] He was there, but he didn't commit either of the two murders.

[7:10] Okay.

[7:11] And you can see in his face during the scene he's uncomfortable with it.

Dan McCoy

[7:14] Yeah.

[7:15] He's like, I was not on board for child rape and murder.

Elliott Kalan

[7:19] In the sense they break into this house, steal two candlesticks off a mantelpiece, and then

[7:22] kill two people and run away.

[7:24] It doesn't make sense.

[7:25] A victimless crime.

Dan McCoy

[7:26] It's a very untargeted attack.

[7:29] It's like two guys with a baseball bat come in, and they're like, oh, well, they got some

Stuart Wellington

[7:33] things on the mantel here.

Dan McCoy

[7:35] It's called a crime of opportunity.

[7:36] This looks like a...

[7:37] Maybe this...

[7:38] Well, we've got the baseball bat tonight.

[7:39] This is a silver picture frame.

[7:41] I'll take that.

[7:43] It'll fetch up words of $10 on the open market.

Elliott Kalan

[7:46] But there's a...

[7:46] Okay, well...

Dan McCoy

[7:47] It's for the thrill, you know?

[7:48] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[7:48] We should make the plot quick.

[7:50] Basically, the one who's being executed, he gets lethal injection, but something's been...

[7:54] His chemicals have been messed with, and his death is incredibly painful.

[7:58] And he becomes the Incredible Hulk.

[8:02] They go to...

[8:03] The police think the other murderer, who's now out of jail, did it.

[8:09] They track him down, and he gets a mysterious phone call leading him away from the police

[8:13] and to a warehouse where Gerard Butler drugs him and then proceeds to dismember him as revenge.

[8:21] Revenge over, right?

[8:23] No.

[8:24] What?

[8:25] I don't think so.

[8:26] Because Gerard Butler wants to teach Jamie Foxx a lesson, and this involves killing basically

[8:31] everyone in the Justice Department and the DA's office in Philadelphia in increasingly elaborate

[8:37] ways.

[8:38] As he sits supposedly in solitary confinement in prison, how's he doing it?

[8:45] How's he pulling off all these crimes?

[8:46] He must have an accomplice, right?

[8:47] He must.

[8:48] He must.

[8:49] It's the only way.

[8:51] The only way that makes any logical sense.

[8:53] Meanwhile, they know he's committing these crimes.

[8:56] They make no attempt to keep an eye on him or watch him.

[8:59] He's in...

[8:59] Well, he's in solitary.

[9:01] He's in solitary, but it's basically like a locked room at the bottom of a hallway that

[9:04] nobody goes down.

[9:04] It's solitary.

[9:05] It's fine.

[9:06] Yeah.

[9:06] Don't worry about it.

[9:07] And the city...

[9:08] We're not shown this, but we're told that the city is shut down.

[9:11] People are afraid to go to work or to school.

[9:13] I would be.

[9:14] Uh-huh.

Dan McCoy

[9:14] Because as like a regular citizen, I'd be terrified to learn that someone was killing specifically

[9:20] police officers and criminal lawyers.

Elliott Kalan

[9:25] Who were involved in this one case.

[9:26] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[9:26] Ten years ago.

[9:28] So that would bring things to a standstill.

Elliott Kalan

[9:31] And should we give away the ending?

[9:33] Yeah, please do.

[9:34] Jamie Foxx and his policeman buddies find out that Gerard Butler was actually a super genius

[9:40] when it came to killing people who used to work for the government.

[9:43] And he has an elaborate hideout underground.

Stuart Wellington

[9:48] So he's not just like a regular, everyday Joe.

Elliott Kalan

[9:50] No.

[9:51] Even though he says several times, I'm an ordinary guy, I'm just a law-abiding citizen, it turns

[9:55] out he's actually a super secret CIA assassin.

[9:58] He's got a headquarters underground next to the prison, connected to his solitary confinement

[10:04] cell by a tunnel.

[10:05] And every night he is sneaking out of his cell and rigging up traps to kill people and then

[10:10] getting back into his cell again.

[10:12] Huh.

[10:13] And he sets up-

[10:14] Sounds plausible.

[10:15] And he sets up a bomb at the mayor's office for some reason.

[10:17] And Jamie Foxx, realizing that the law is impotent at this point, puts it under Gerard Butler's

[10:24] bed and allows Gerard Butler to blow himself up.

[10:28] Case closed.

Stuart Wellington

[10:29] Case closed.

[10:30] The case of the murdering guy.

Dan McCoy

[10:33] Yeah.

[10:33] Over.

[10:34] Chalk another one up for the district attorney.

[10:36] Another slam dunk.

Elliott Kalan

[10:37] So it's an incredibly stupid movie.

[10:39] Yeah.

[10:40] And it would want you to believe that it's about, I guess, the limits of justice or the

[10:44] limits of the legal system.

[10:45] Our liberal legal system.

[10:46] Letting criminals go free.

Stuart Wellington

[10:48] There's a lot of like, what about his civil rights?

Elliott Kalan

[10:50] I don't care about his civil rights anymore.

[10:52] You know, and things like that.

[10:53] Yep.

[10:54] And a judge who is incredibly eager to let people off of charges for any reason.

Dan McCoy

[11:00] Yeah.

[11:00] There's a point where like, Gerard Butler says he's going to confess, hasn't signed a confession

[11:06] yet.

[11:07] And then makes an argument in court that because he hasn't done it, and there's no other evidence,

[11:12] he should be going free, even though he's agreed to sign a confession in the future.

[11:16] And the judge is like, yeah, I'll allow it.

[11:18] And then he starts railing against the judge.

[11:20] He's like, see, you did this last time.

[11:23] No, no, you're always letting criminals go free to kill and kill again.

[11:27] Yeah, he kind of set her up.

Elliott Kalan

[11:28] And he plays a game of cat and mouse with the cops saying like, oh, I'll tell you where

[11:32] this missing person is that I've kidnapped if you bring me a steak lunch.

[11:37] You know, things like that.

Stuart Wellington

[11:38] At day 1230 and when it comes a little late, oops.

Dan McCoy

[11:41] A T-bone steak.

[11:43] The bone being the important part.

Elliott Kalan

[11:46] Yes.

[11:46] Because then he then uses that to kill his cellmate.

[11:48] Yeah.

[11:49] And for pretty much no reason except to get him into solitary, I guess.

[11:53] Luckily, the prison only has one solitary confinement cell, and he's already dug an amazing tunnel.

Dan McCoy

[11:58] There's got to be a non-murder way to get into solitary.

Elliott Kalan

[12:01] I mean, it was either that or just...

Dan McCoy

[12:03] I mean, I don't know that much about prison.

[12:04] Just like try to punch a guard, maybe?

Elliott Kalan

[12:05] Or just like pee in a cup and throw it on a guard.

[12:07] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[12:07] Okay.

[12:08] I guess that'll get you there.

[12:10] I mean, at least for a day.

Dan McCoy

[12:11] I mean, especially once he starts his murdering rampage, he'll stay in solitary.

[12:14] And everybody knows he's doing it.

Stuart Wellington

[12:15] Oh.

[12:16] Maybe there's something we don't know about between him and his cellmate.

[12:20] Mm-hmm.

Elliott Kalan

[12:21] Maybe...

[12:22] They certainly didn't seem to be friendly.

Stuart Wellington

[12:23] No.

[12:24] I mean, there's definitely a little bit of antagonism there.

[12:28] It's just sexual tension, Stuart.

[12:29] Yeah.

[12:29] I guess you're probably right.

[12:30] I mean, Jared Butler does look pretty good.

[12:34] Mm-hmm.

Dan McCoy

[12:35] As I said watching it, how can a man in such good shape look so doughy?

Elliott Kalan

[12:40] He's pretty cut.

[12:41] He's got a 50s bodybuilder look where it's like he's muscular, but he's not slim.

[12:47] He's not svelte.

Dan McCoy

[12:48] But also when you take his shirt off, you can see the definition of every muscle.

[12:54] Chiseled.

[12:54] It's just that his face looks...

[12:55] I mean, there's no Ryan Reynolds, but...

Elliott Kalan

[12:57] Well, you see him nude from the back, and he's kind of a lumpy guy.

Dan McCoy

[13:00] It seems like maybe...

[13:02] Those are muscles.

[13:02] You know...

Elliott Kalan

[13:03] But they don't look good.

Dan McCoy

[13:04] Someone attached some clamps to his extra face flesh and just started pulling them out,

[13:09] you know?

[13:09] Like in Brazil, you're saying.

[13:11] Or maybe it's like his face gave birth at some point, and it just has a Titan bag up.

[13:16] Wow.

Elliott Kalan

[13:17] You really hate Jared Butler.

[13:18] He's going to beat the crap out of you.

[13:19] Yeah.

[13:20] And this is the best performance we've seen from him so far.

[13:23] No.

[13:23] There's a certain...

Dan McCoy

[13:24] I mean, I certainly...

[13:25] I would rather that he won over Jamie Foxx in this film.

Elliott Kalan

[13:29] Well, Jamie Foxx is the least likable hero, I think, in movie history in this movie.

[13:32] Yeah.

[13:33] He learns...

Stuart Wellington

[13:34] I mean, what's up with Jamie Foxx, guys?

[13:35] I mean, like, some days he's like a rapper.

[13:39] Some days he's an actor.

[13:41] Some days he's a comedian.

Elliott Kalan

[13:43] Uh-huh.

[13:43] What's the deal?

[13:44] How do you explain it?

[13:45] Can't pen it down.

[13:45] It's a modern-day renaissance, man.

[13:47] No, but...

[13:48] I just don't know what to think, you know?

[13:50] Listen, Damon Wayans just wrote a novel about old ladies, so...

[13:53] About old ladies?

[13:54] Yeah.

[13:55] Wait, what?

[13:56] It's in like the Tyler Perry mode of uplifting, vaguely religious novels about black people.

Dan McCoy

[14:02] Not like...

[14:03] A Medea-style old lady.

[14:04] Yes.

[14:04] Not just...

Elliott Kalan

[14:06] I don't know.

[14:06] Medea, like, kills her children in revenge of J.M.J.'s.

[14:08] Not like a Miss Marple of Miss Traeers.

[14:10] No.

[14:10] I wish it was like a murder she wrote type thing.

Dan McCoy

[14:14] No, but one of the reasons why Jamie Foxx is so unlikable is he refuses to learn his lesson

[14:19] all throughout the film, and when he finally does learn his lesson, the lesson he learns

[14:23] is that the legal system doesn't work, rather than, maybe he shouldn't have done a plea bargain

[14:29] for this horrible, horrible murder.

[14:31] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[14:31] Just apologize to him.

[14:32] Yeah.

[14:33] Yeah.

[14:33] Seems kind of weird at this point.

[14:35] Send him some flowers.

[14:35] Yeah.

[14:36] They've been holding onto it for 10 years, you know?

Dan McCoy

[14:38] Mm-hmm.

[14:39] Oh, man.

Elliott Kalan

[14:40] And people keep dying.

[14:41] Yeah.

[14:42] 10 years of tunneling.

Stuart Wellington

[14:43] Yeah, that was...

[14:45] I mean, there was that really cool moment where he, Bernard, or Gerard Butler, sets himself

[14:51] on fire.

[14:51] Bernard Juttler.

[14:53] Where Bernard Juttler, the bomb exploded, and there was like that moment of him kind of

[14:58] like looking at the camera, and he's like surrounded in flames, like a phoenix reborn from the ashes,

[15:04] except he doesn't come back.

[15:05] I mean, he's dead.

[15:06] Well, except for Law-Biting Citizen 2.

[15:08] He's being accepted into the maw of hell.

[15:10] Law-Biting Citizen.

[15:11] Oh, yeah, that makes sense.

[15:12] Symbolic.

Elliott Kalan

[15:12] Yeah.

[15:13] But also, like, Jamie Foxx, as part of his job, I guess, just blew up a man in the prison.

[15:19] Like, and then in the next scene, he's at his daughter's cello recital, and everything's okay.

Stuart Wellington

[15:23] Now, I don't know a lot about the job of a...

[15:26] Of a DA.

[15:27] Of an assistant district attorney.

Elliott Kalan

[15:28] This is after he's been sworn in as the DA.

[15:30] But even before that, like...

[15:31] The mayor says to him, you're doing a terrible job.

[15:33] The city is on high alert.

[15:35] Everyone's worried.

[15:36] I'm going to have to swear you in as DA.

Dan McCoy

[15:38] Viola Davis, by the way, the mayor.

Elliott Kalan

[15:39] Academy Award nominee Viola Davis swearing an Academy Award nominee.

[15:43] Jamie Foxx.

[15:44] Mm-hmm.

Stuart Wellington

[15:45] Academy Award winner.

[15:46] Didn't he win for Ray?

Elliott Kalan

[15:47] Did he?

[15:48] Oh, maybe.

[15:48] I think he did.

[15:48] Then maybe he's an Academy Award winner.

Stuart Wellington

[15:50] Now, what I don't quite understand is...

[15:53] I didn't realize that the job of the assistant district attorney was to, like, run around and go to crime scenes and, like, solve fucking crimes and shit.

[16:00] Is that really the case?

Elliott Kalan

[16:02] Well, it's really more, I guess, administrating the office that organizes the arguments in court against these cases.

Stuart Wellington

[16:09] Yeah, I mean, taking all the evidence that is brought to them by the police and then, like, building a criminal case against the person, right?

Elliott Kalan

[16:17] Yeah, he is at the scene of the crime very often.

Stuart Wellington

[16:20] Yeah, and, like, anytime something might be happening, he's jumping in a helicopter.

Dan McCoy

[16:23] I mean, I think the district attorney's office has its own investigators, but I don't think they would be taking lead on the thing.

Elliott Kalan

[16:32] Well, the district attorney isn't, like, a McGruff figure, though.

Stuart Wellington

[16:36] Sure he is.

[16:37] He's a dog in a trench coat.

[16:38] Okay.

[16:39] Also, there's one guy who's, like, apparently holding the entire city in a grip of terror, but the newspapers never show his picture.

[16:49] We never actually see the city behaving erratically in any way.

[16:52] Yeah, we're just told about it.

Dan McCoy

[16:53] Gerard Butler is able to sneak into City Hall just wearing a mustache at the very end of the film.

Elliott Kalan

[17:00] And a cap.

[17:00] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[17:01] Well, there's a lot of subtleties to his disguise.

[17:04] It's, like, the way he holds his body.

[17:05] Oh, okay.

[17:06] His voice.

[17:07] He's got a slightly more gravelly voice when he's talking to people.

[17:11] Yeah.

[17:11] He's like Lon Chaney.

Dan McCoy

[17:13] Yeah, exactly.

[17:15] Anyway.

Elliott Kalan

[17:16] I guess the reason anyone would see this movie is...

[17:19] For Gerard Butler's turn of his apartment.

[17:21] He becomes a different character every time.

[17:23] But I guess for the elaborate kill scenes, which...

Stuart Wellington

[17:26] Yeah, it's like a Saw movie, but with a vigilante instead of...

[17:30] Well, I guess Saw is kind of a vigilante.

[17:32] Well, he's a vigilante for living your life to the fullest.

Elliott Kalan

[17:36] Oh, okay.

[17:37] So it's like defending your life with Albert Brooks, but...

[17:40] Yeah, it's a lot like murder defending your life.

Stuart Wellington

[17:43] Isn't that...

[17:44] Doesn't that take place in outer space or heaven or something?

[17:45] No, it takes place in heaven.

[17:46] Oh, okay.

[17:47] Same thing.

Elliott Kalan

[17:48] Which, I guess, heaven is as far outer space as you can get.

Stuart Wellington

[17:50] Yeah, I mean, it's pretty much outer space.

[17:53] But yeah, like, it's basically like a bunch of crazy Rube Goldberg things where people are

[17:59] set up and then they're going to die, right?

[18:00] Well, and then it gets...

[18:01] Well, not even that crazy.

Dan McCoy

[18:02] I mean, like...

[18:04] I mean, they're crazy in that they're weird, but there's no Rube Goldberg.

Elliott Kalan

[18:08] Well, the craziest one is the first one.

[18:10] He gets where he gives a...

[18:11] Or I guess after the lethal injection where the other killer, he's given him a gun and

[18:18] then when he pulls the trigger, spikes come out of the handle, which have some sort of puffer

[18:23] fish poison on them.

[18:24] Sure.

[18:24] Which then paralyzes him so that Gerard Butler can cut his body parts off.

Dan McCoy

[18:29] Yeah, and by the way, when puffer fish was mentioned that early in the movie, I was looking

[18:34] forward to a much crazier movie than this ended up being.

Elliott Kalan

[18:37] Yeah, well, there's nothing so unnecessary about it.

[18:39] It's a poison from the bladder of a puffer fish.

[18:42] And it's like, why not just say, I've just paralyzed you with a toxin.

[18:46] Yeah.

[18:46] It sounds ridiculous.

[18:47] Yeah, just tell me you gave him the Hong Kong cocktail and leave it at that.

[18:51] Duh.

Dan McCoy

[18:51] Gotta keep your adrenaline up.

Elliott Kalan

[18:52] But then later it's mostly like exploding phones, exploding cars.

Dan McCoy

[18:56] Well, not exploding phones so much as like a phone that like shoots the judge through

Stuart Wellington

[19:00] her head.

[19:01] Well, and it apparently only goes off when she's in the presence of our main characters.

Elliott Kalan

[19:06] It was timed to go off only in an ironic moment.

[19:09] Yeah.

[19:09] So she says, well, that's the great thing about being a judge.

[19:11] You can do whatever you want.

[19:13] Opens up phone.

[19:14] A phone blows her head off.

[19:15] Famous last words.

[19:16] Well, this brings me, you know.

[19:17] They are.

[19:17] They're quoted everywhere now.

Dan McCoy

[19:19] This brings me to what I kind of felt was the stupidest scene in the movie, which is.

[19:23] The cello?

[19:24] No, it was after Gerard Butler said, you know, show me you've learned your lesson.

[19:28] You can stop all this or whatever.

[19:30] Like, let me go.

[19:32] Or, you know, tomorrow at 6 a.m.

[19:35] Everyone dies.

[19:37] And so.

Elliott Kalan

[19:38] Or let me go by 6 a.m.

Dan McCoy

[19:39] By 6 a.m.

[19:40] Or everyone dies.

[19:41] And so, like, the law people are all, like, pulling an all-nighter for some reason.

[19:45] And they're all together.

[19:46] I think law people is the technical.

[19:48] They're all together in the law people offices.

[19:51] Sure.

[19:51] Law people room.

[19:52] Yeah.

[19:53] Jamie Foxx, you know, everyone is looking up at the clock.

[19:57] And the minute hand goes to 6.

[19:59] And everyone looks around like, well, we didn't die.

[20:03] Guess we're going to live forever.

[20:05] Guess the danger has passed.

[20:07] And then they all leave.

[20:08] And, of course, get in their cars, which blow up.

Elliott Kalan

[20:10] One by one.

[20:11] Yeah.

[20:11] And one of the women.

[20:13] One of the people Jamie Foxx works with.

[20:15] Leslie Bibb.

[20:17] Named after, of course, the article of clothing.

[20:20] Sure.

[20:21] The Leslie.

[20:23] She is just.

[20:24] The old switcheroo.

[20:25] We know she's going to die because she's.

[20:27] We haven't seen her for, like, an hour in the movie.

[20:29] Or we have, but just in brief moments.

[20:31] And then she starts talking about her boyfriend with Jamie Foxx.

[20:34] And it's like, okay, well, we've learned something personal about you.

[20:37] So you're going to go.

[20:38] But then she gets in her car.

[20:39] All these other cars start exploding.

[20:41] And she looks at Jamie Foxx like, what do I do?

[20:44] I don't understand.

[20:44] Where can I?

[20:45] Huh?

[20:46] And doesn't seem to figure out that she has control over the doors of her car.

[20:50] And so she gets blown up.

Stuart Wellington

[20:51] It's really a shame because in the ten years that elapsed since the first case, she really did not age very much.

[21:00] Nobody did.

[21:00] She was great.

[21:01] She had great genes.

[21:02] You could say that.

[21:02] I know.

[21:03] Wait, like in her body or like the thing she was wearing?

[21:06] Both.

[21:06] Yeah.

[21:06] Wow.

[21:07] Because I didn't see the second.

[21:08] Mm-hmm.

[21:09] Maybe I missed that scene.

[21:10] I'm just imagining.

[21:10] You've got to assume.

[21:11] The casual scene.

[21:12] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[21:12] The casual wear.

[21:13] Mm-hmm.

[21:14] She's out drinking with her fellow law people at the law bar.

[21:18] Yeah.

[21:18] Where all the law students are at.

Elliott Kalan

[21:20] They're like hillbilly sexy jeans with panels cut out of the butt.

[21:24] Okay.

[21:25] That sounds sexy.

Dan McCoy

[21:27] Wow.

[21:27] You have constructed a more elaborate fantasy around this then.

Elliott Kalan

[21:31] Well, listen.

[21:31] She's a lawyer, right?

[21:32] Yeah.

[21:33] What, like a half shirt?

[21:35] So she cuts loose on the weekends.

Stuart Wellington

[21:40] Warriors love wearing Daisy Dukes around.

[21:42] Well, then I guess she died as she lived, you know?

[21:45] In a car.

[21:46] Yeah, in a car.

[21:46] Exploding.

[21:49] I mean, from the portrait you've painted.

[21:51] I don't think I mentioned that at all.

Elliott Kalan

[21:54] Oh, okay.

[21:54] It seemed like the 10-year difference was so unnecessary.

[21:58] It could have been one year later.

Stuart Wellington

[22:00] Yeah.

[22:01] Or three years later.

[22:02] I mean, he dug a lot of tunnel, right?

[22:04] That's true.

[22:05] And that's not a euphemism.

[22:07] I normally would use that as a euphemism.

[22:08] What would it be a euphemism for?

[22:10] We'll cover that later.

Dan McCoy

[22:12] Yeah.

[22:12] No, it's a 10-year project.

[22:15] I mean, planning all this masterminding out and then having a warehouse that you dig a tunnel through the prison for.

[22:23] You've got to do that really quietly, I imagine.

Stuart Wellington

[22:26] But the thing is, also, Gerard Butler's character is, like, it's established, what, midway through the movie that he was, like, a crazy CIA assassin operative.

[22:37] Yes.

[22:39] I'm surprised he didn't just, like...

[22:40] They fucked with the wrong Mexican.

[22:41] Well, let me get back to my point, Daniel.

[22:48] But I'm surprised that a character that already has that moral flexibility, his first outlet is, like, okay, let's see what the justice system is going to do.

[22:59] Yeah.

[22:59] Like, that seems crazy.

[23:01] I'm surprised his first thing was to kill the guys before.

Dan McCoy

[23:03] That was his fall from grace.

[23:04] Like, you know, he'd given his life to the U.S. government and he sees how he gets repaid.

Elliott Kalan

[23:10] But then he doesn't take his problem to the U.S. government.

[23:12] He takes it to the Philadelphia justice system.

[23:16] Also, when...

[23:17] And also, why doesn't the government step in and help him out with this?

Stuart Wellington

[23:19] Also, when he's later on trial, how come he has the exact same judge and the exact same prosecutor that presided in the trial over the murderers of his family?

[23:28] It seems crazy.

Elliott Kalan

[23:30] You have to assume this movie takes place in a world where Philadelphia has been decimated by some sort of virus or zombie plague.

[23:36] Okay.

[23:37] There's only about 45 people left in the city.

[23:38] That's what happened in those 10 years we didn't see.

Stuart Wellington

[23:39] So it's kind of like in the second half of the Akira graphic novels.

[23:43] Exactly, yes.

[23:44] Where they're living in the ruins of Neo-Tokyo.

[23:46] Yes.

[23:46] Sure.

Elliott Kalan

[23:46] Or between Mad Max and Mad Max 2, Road Warrior.

[23:50] Okay.

[23:51] Where there's been a nuclear war and society has crumbled.

Dan McCoy

[23:54] Wait, there's been a nuclear war between Mad Max and Mad Max 2?

[23:58] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[23:58] There wasn't one before Mad Max?

[24:00] In the first Mad Max, it's like...

[24:01] It was just like a...

[24:02] In the first Mad Max, things were just shitty?

[24:04] It was just a white line nightmare.

[24:05] Exactly.

[24:07] It was just a white line nightmare, yeah.

[24:10] But yeah, in the first movie, things are bad, but you still have lawyers, the government, regular television broadcasts.

[24:16] What happened between things are bad, but we're not just talking about the sound dubbing?

[24:20] Go!

[24:21] Between Road Warrior and Beyond Thunderdome, George Miller got too much money.

[24:25] People started building Thunderdomes all over.

[24:28] And Barter Towns.

[24:28] So many Thunderdomes.

[24:31] Well, but you could see...

[24:32] Well, you make that Barter Town is the beginning of a new organized society.

[24:36] It's like an Old West type place.

[24:37] It's the same process you see in like McCabe and Mrs. Miller.

[24:40] Right.

[24:41] Or season two of Deadwood.

[24:43] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[24:44] I think we've learned something.

[24:45] I like Thunderdome.

[24:47] Did you?

[24:47] Yeah, I still can do.

[24:49] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[24:50] I just don't quite know why.

[24:51] There's a lot of dumb things.

[24:52] It's the most Tina Turner-y about all of them.

Stuart Wellington

[24:54] Well, because it's the only one she's in.

[24:55] Yeah.

[24:56] Yeah, that's fine.

[24:57] I'm cool with that.

[24:58] And there's...

[24:59] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[25:00] I actually like the first one the best, which is kind of unpopular.

Elliott Kalan

[25:03] See, I like the second one.

[25:04] I just like how low budget it is.

[25:07] I love the big pieces of metal on them.

Stuart Wellington

[25:10] Well.

[25:10] Well, we're not talking about the movie we watched anymore.

Elliott Kalan

[25:13] Law-abiding citizen.

Stuart Wellington

[25:16] Yeah, which, I mean, it's kind of a strange title, don't you think?

[25:19] I mean, he's...

Elliott Kalan

[25:19] He's anything but.

[25:21] I agree.

[25:22] That's the other thing is the whole thing is he keeps saying,

[25:24] I'm a law-abiding citizen.

[25:25] I'm a regular Joe and the systems don't be wrong.

[25:28] But he's not.

[25:29] Like you were saying, he already lives in this morally gray world of CIA assassinry.

Stuart Wellington

[25:36] And, I mean, this is a movie, I guess, like, who is...

[25:39] This movie's targeted toward people who...

[25:41] Yeah, people.

[25:42] Who, well, yeah, human beings who watch movies.

[25:44] I assume...

[25:45] Presumably.

[25:45] Not one of those movies for dogs.

Dan McCoy

[25:47] Death penalty advocates is targeted, too.

Elliott Kalan

[25:50] People who hate the Constitution and civil rights.

Stuart Wellington

[25:52] Yeah.

[25:53] And a little bit to people that are just way into vigilantes and revenge movies.

[25:59] Like, people who just really love Rorschach from The Watchmen.

[26:04] And...

[26:04] The Watchmen.

[26:05] Just Watchmen.

[26:05] I'm not really familiar with what you're talking about.

[26:10] So, but what I think is strange is that they also, like,

[26:14] they had to throw in your face that annoying title, like,

[26:17] law-abiding citizen.

[26:18] And you're like, okay, yeah, sure he is.

[26:21] And he's blowing a bunch of people up.

[26:22] Like, at no point...

[26:24] It's just irritating.

Dan McCoy

[26:26] It's just a level of bad attitude.

[26:28] It is a very...

[26:28] It's irritating.

[26:29] It's stupid.

[26:30] That's Stewart's review of the movie.

[26:32] It's just irritating.

Elliott Kalan

[26:33] It's a movie that at no point stopped to think through what the hell it was about or saying

[26:37] or what the audience was supposed to think other than, like, whoa!

[26:42] The head blew up!

Stuart Wellington

[26:43] Except for it clearly thought it was saying something profound.

[26:46] Yeah.

[26:46] It just didn't know what it was.

[26:47] There's early bits where they're trying to, like, show this guy's, like, how the legal system

[26:53] just can't handle, like...

[26:55] A murder case.

[26:56] Yeah, a murder case.

[26:57] Like a fucking open and shut case.

[26:59] They try and make it seem like, oh, the legal system's so fucked up.

[27:03] And they just throw out all these random legal mumbo-jumbo, like, phrases.

[27:07] And I guess they're just assuming that their audience is just going to nod their head and be like,

[27:11] wow, that's terrible, man.

[27:13] He's right.

[27:14] Yeah, this is based on a documentary.

[27:17] But, like, the audience just saw, like, a woman get, like, killed and then raped.

[27:22] And so they're immediately going to be, like, siding with Gerard Butler on this one.

[27:27] It's so stupid.

Elliott Kalan

[27:28] But it's also later he says, like, all right, I'm going to confess to these crimes.

[27:34] And then they go to court and it's like we were already talking about.

[27:40] He makes the case then that they can't hold him because of the confession.

[27:44] It's like, why didn't they get the confession as soon as, before the arraignment?

[27:49] Just like they set the legal system up to be so incompetent that it's unbelievable.

Stuart Wellington

[27:53] And the preceding scene where this veteran prosecutor, I mean, over ten years of experience,

[27:59] interviews this guy and Gerard Butler keeps saying things like,

[28:02] I wanted to murder them or I thought about it.

[28:06] And he's like, oh, great, I got a confession.

[28:07] And, like, even I, I have no fucking idea what I'm doing.

[28:10] And I'm like, yeah, he didn't say anything.

Elliott Kalan

[28:12] He never said, yes, I killed him.

[28:13] Yeah.

[28:14] Yeah.

[28:15] It's stupid.

[28:16] It makes me mad.

[28:17] Even just, like, he murders a man in his cell and then he never seems to be brought up on charges for that.

[28:23] They just throw him in solitary and then leave him.

[28:25] Like, that's another crime he has to answer for, you know.

[28:28] It's not like once you're in jail they're like, well, whatever he does here, he's already being punished.

[28:33] Can't convict him of murder twice.

[28:35] Yes, you can.

[28:36] It's called double jabbering.

[28:36] Double jabbering.

[28:37] You already committed a crime.

[28:38] We can't convict him of another one.

[28:40] I guess you're free to go.

Dan McCoy

[28:42] He was too smart for us.

[28:43] He parked near that hydrant before killing those people.

[28:47] So now we can't get him for the later judge.

Elliott Kalan

[28:49] They find him, they find the body at property he owns.

[28:52] They have video of him dismembering this guy alive.

[28:55] And they're like, we don't have a strong enough case.

[28:58] We've got to do what he says.

[29:00] No, I mean, if anything.

Dan McCoy

[29:01] Well, he had his dismemberment mask on.

[29:04] Oh, I see.

[29:05] I remember that.

Stuart Wellington

[29:06] That's just ridiculous.

[29:07] I think this movie makes me push all the harder for a no escape style prison island.

[29:14] Or where you ship guys off so they can't build tunnels and sneak back and forth.

[29:19] Or some sort of death race.

[29:21] And you know what?

[29:21] Also, I think this movie was great because.

[29:24] Some sort of moon prison.

[29:25] You know, we were just talking about how awesome this movie was.

[29:28] And I was really happy.

[29:29] Was that what we were doing?

[29:30] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[29:30] I blacked out for an hour.

Dan McCoy

[29:32] Well, your testimony is not valid anymore.

[29:36] Can I listen to the tape?

Stuart Wellington

[29:37] No.

[29:37] Good one, Dan.

[29:38] So we.

[29:39] Open shut case.

[29:40] Well, one of the things I do want to bring up is that this movie brings back a triumphant

[29:44] return to the evidence dungeon.

[29:46] Ah, yes.

[29:46] Because they do find a dungeon filled with like newspaper clippings and Semtex and all.

[29:51] Everything's labeled.

[29:52] All of his disguises are there.

[29:54] Shitloads of blueprints.

[29:55] And that dude has a lot of disguises.

[29:57] In a room that I think there's like maybe about a foot of water at the bottom, if I recall.

[30:02] I don't remember that part.

[30:03] There's all his fucking disguises down there.

[30:05] Like the humidity would ruin those.

Elliott Kalan

[30:07] Well, I just love that the entrance is underneath his cherry refurbished 50s Cadillac that he

[30:14] keeps in a warehouse.

[30:15] Like, it doesn't get any more like superhero-y, super villain-y than that.

Dan McCoy

[30:21] I can accept the evidence dungeon here, though, a little bit more because it's like more his

[30:24] lair that he has to, his operations have to go from.

[30:28] Although it is always hilarious to me when a criminal feels like they need to put up their

[30:32] news clippings on the wall.

Elliott Kalan

[30:34] In case they forget why they're doing it.

[30:36] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[30:36] It bothers me more, the evidence dungeon, when it's in like a serial killer film.

[30:41] When it's like, okay, I know that serial killers, you know, often take trophies, but they're

[30:47] usually like...

[30:47] Is that true?

[30:48] Or did just movies tell you that?

[30:49] No, that's true.

[30:50] But like, it's usually like in the way of like a personal item or like a body part.

[30:54] It's like a compulsion.

[30:54] Or something.

[30:55] Oh, okay.

[30:56] They don't then like make collages of murder and post it on the wall, you know, or, you

[31:02] know, cut out the phrase serial killer murders again and put it up.

[31:07] Anyway.

[31:08] They don't?

[31:09] Well, all right.

[31:10] Do you think they ever go on their MacBook or whatever?

[31:13] Do you think they ever go on their MacBook or whatever?

Stuart Wellington

[31:13] They go on their MacBook and type serial killer murders again and then print them out in

[31:18] different fonts?

Dan McCoy

[31:18] They've got a Google Alert set up for serial killer and they're always hoping it's them

[31:22] that's being talked about.

Stuart Wellington

[31:24] Well, do you think with the death of print, do you think serial killers...

[31:27] You're going to see a lot more email printouts taped up to walls.

[31:30] Yeah, a lot of like Twitter posts.

[31:32] Yeah.

[31:33] Sure.

[31:33] A lot of bloggers.

[31:35] OMG.

[31:36] Serial killers.

Elliott Kalan

[31:36] Serial killers strikes G again, you know.

Dan McCoy

[31:38] They're going to get, serial killers are going to get those electronic picture frames and

[31:42] it's just going to be like a photo slideshow of all their clippings.

Stuart Wellington

[31:49] Oh, like for on their desktop.

[31:50] Mm-hmm.

[31:51] Okay.

[31:52] And then in the future it'll be like holograms.

[31:55] Mm-hmm.

[31:56] Yeah.

[31:56] Like maybe hologram videos of them doing it that they made.

[31:59] That just play on the wall over and over again.

[32:01] That sounds awesome.

[32:01] In front of their video screen.

[32:02] It's me killing this person.

Elliott Kalan

[32:03] Makes it look like they live next to a jungle.

[32:05] Wow.

[32:06] Out the window.

Stuart Wellington

[32:07] Oh, that's pretty cool.

[32:08] And wait.

[32:09] They're like Back to the Future Part 2.

[32:12] You get dominoes and it's like a tiny little pizza and then you put it in a thing and it

[32:15] becomes a giant pizza.

Elliott Kalan

[32:16] And everyone faxes your fire to each other.

[32:18] Yeah.

[32:19] And wears their solar shades from Pizza Hut.

Dan McCoy

[32:21] Everyone faxes your fire.

[32:23] It's a fad that's left a nation in the future.

[32:25] That's what happened in the movie.

Dan McCoy

[32:25] In the future.

Elliott Kalan

[32:26] And you got flying cars and Jaws 15.

[32:28] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[32:29] By the way, they've got some catching up to do to make it a Jaws 15.

Elliott Kalan

[32:34] It takes place in 2015, right?

[32:36] Back to the Future 2.

[32:37] They're like, ah, here's an interesting thing.

[32:39] A dust jacket on the book.

[32:41] Well, I don't know if those are really going to go out of style in the next five years.

[32:44] Well, here's another thing about Back to the Future Part 2.

[32:49] This is the podcast for law-abiding citizens, by the way.

Dan McCoy

[32:52] If Biff created a separate timeline, how did he fly back to the original timeline in the

[32:58] time machine, which allowed Doc and Marty to go back?

Elliott Kalan

[33:02] That doesn't make any sense.

[33:03] Wait.

Dan McCoy

[33:03] What do you mean?

[33:04] What?

[33:04] When Biff went back to give himself the sports all-back.

[33:08] This is the character of Biff from the movie Back to the Future 2.

Elliott Kalan

[33:10] Yeah, Biff Henderson, late show with David Letterman, stage manager.

Dan McCoy

[33:14] He created a divergent timeline, the horrible timeline.

[33:20] Biff world.

[33:21] It's called Biff world.

[33:23] But the only way that Marty and Doc get back to that timeline.

[33:25] Is that what it's referred to in various Back to the Future fan fiction?

[33:29] Among BTTF fans.

[33:31] Let me finish it.

[33:31] That's what it's referred to as.

[33:33] The only way that Marty and Biff are able to go back in time is because old Biff then

[33:39] returns to the original timeline.

[33:41] And if he had created a divergent timeline, he would have just gone ahead into the future

[33:45] of that divergent timeline.

[33:48] That's where they were.

[33:50] No.

[33:50] The original timeline, Marty and Doc were at the future version of Marty's house.

[34:01] In Biff world.

[34:02] No.

[34:03] Not in Biff world.

[34:04] Biff world was later.

[34:05] And they go into the future to save Marty's kids.

[34:09] Yes.

[34:09] And that's when Biff takes the almanac and he goes back.

[34:12] And then he creates a divergent timeline.

[34:14] But he somehow flies back to the future in the original timeline.

[34:18] I don't remember that part of the movie.

[34:20] Oh, for God's sake.

[34:20] This has been such a waste of time.

Elliott Kalan

[34:22] When do Jules and Vern come in?

Dan McCoy

[34:24] Man.

[34:25] Again.

[34:25] Are there dinosaurs in the land?

[34:26] The dinosaurs in the nation turning off their podcast in disgust.

Elliott Kalan

[34:28] No, with dinosaurs in the Back to the Future cartoon series in one episode.

[34:31] Oh, okay.

[34:32] They created a world where dinosaurs continued evolving and became, had like a people type

[34:37] civilization.

Stuart Wellington

[34:38] Oh, that sounds awesome.

[34:39] Do they wear suits and stuff and like tennis shoes with their claws poking out of them?

[34:43] And drive cars.

[34:44] That's awesome.

[34:44] They may not have worn shoes.

[34:46] Oh, that's too bad.

Dan McCoy

[34:47] I think we can all agree, though, that the best part of Back to the Future 3 was ZZ Top

[34:52] playing the barn dance.

[34:57] I mean, it's up there.

[34:58] I don't know if I'm going to say it's the best part.

[35:00] Yeah, it is.

Elliott Kalan

[35:01] This is a movie that takes place in the Old West.

[35:03] I mean, it's awesome.

[35:04] I just like their...

[35:05] Like Silverado.

[35:06] He does invent the frisbee.

[35:07] They're old-timey.

[35:07] Yeah, like Silverado.

Dan McCoy

[35:08] It's like their old-timey version of Doubleback that they're playing.

Elliott Kalan

[35:12] Yeah, I mean, it's up there with, I guess, the best moments from Young Guns 2.

[35:15] Yeah.

[35:15] Sure.

[35:16] Oh, man.

[35:17] Or that James Boys movie that came out about 10 years ago?

[35:21] Yeah.

[35:22] Do you remember that one about the Jesse James gang?

[35:25] Or, like, the Newton Boys?

[35:26] No, yeah.

[35:27] They're safecrackers?

[35:29] It's a lot like Assassination of Jesse James.

[35:32] Stop talking about some...

[35:33] Yeah, yeah.

[35:33] Same kind of thing.

[35:34] Or, like, Appaloosa.

[35:35] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[35:36] Westerns.

[35:37] Yeah.

[35:37] Anyway.

[35:38] Saracan Falls.

[35:39] Let's move on to judgments, because we've clearly...

[35:42] Our final judgments?

[35:43] Our final judgments on Law Abiding Citizen.

[35:45] Final judgments.

[35:46] The three categories are, is this a good, bad movie?

[35:49] A bad, bad movie?

[35:50] Or a movie you actually kind of liked in some way?

[35:52] Elliot, go.

[35:53] Me first?

Elliott Kalan

[35:54] Well, I have to tell you that I did enjoy the energy behind some of the kills, such as...

[36:00] We didn't even mention the robot with a gun and a missile that shoots up a car in a cemetery right

[36:07] after a funeral.

[36:07] But I am going to have, for the lack of logic and goodness in the movie, I'm going to have

[36:14] to give it a bad, bad rating.

[36:16] Yeah, you know what?

[36:17] I'm going to say...

[36:18] And how incredibly unlikable the hero of the movie is.

[36:20] You do want Gerard Butler to win, because at least he looks like he's, like, having a good

[36:24] time, you know?

Dan McCoy

[36:25] He's cutting it up.

[36:27] But...

[36:28] What did you say?

[36:29] No, I'm going to say that I...

[36:31] Part of me wants to say something good about this movie, like, slightly good, bad, because

[36:38] it's just so stupid.

[36:39] Like, the thing about the movie is you can't really...

Elliott Kalan

[36:41] I guess you could have a good time watching some of it.

Dan McCoy

[36:44] Yeah, I mean, you can't really laugh at it.

[36:45] It's not, like, a bad movie that you laugh at because it's incompetent so much as you...

[36:50] A bad movie that you kind of enjoy just because nothing makes sense.

[36:55] Like, it is so dumb.

[36:57] There's not a brain in its head.

[36:59] However, ultimately, it's not enough.

[37:02] Like, I think it's just a bad, bad movie.

Stuart Wellington

[37:05] Yeah, I mean, I think...

[37:07] I think my biggest problem is I'm going to give it a bad, bad.

[37:11] And I think the reason I liked it so little is it had that, like, almost, like, conspiratorial

[37:16] attitude of, like, the filmmakers, like, nudging you, the viewer, like, know what I mean?

[37:21] This justice system's fucked up.

[37:23] And you're like, well, you're just making crazy shit happen.

[37:26] Yeah, don't assume that we agree with you, movie.

[37:28] Yeah, it's like the old racist guy at the bar who's like, you know what I mean?

[37:32] You're like, no.

[37:34] He's like, come on.

Elliott Kalan

[37:35] You're like, what are you talking about?

[37:37] I thought I was going to say, like, Dave Sim in Cerebus having his female characters say

[37:42] crazy things against men and then using that as evidence that women hate men in the real

[37:46] world.

[37:46] That's true.

Stuart Wellington

[37:47] But that's a completely crazy person.

[37:50] Yeah.

[37:50] Oh, well, then the racist at the bar.

[37:51] We can go with that analogy.

[37:53] And mine is less of, like, a vague reference.

[37:56] Well, it's not vague.

[37:57] Mine was way more specific than yours.

Dan McCoy

[37:59] It's an extremely specific reference.

[38:00] The problem is perhaps that it's so specific that a very small portion of our audience will

[38:05] understand.

Elliott Kalan

[38:06] Let me explain again.

[38:07] It's like the scene if on a winter's night of Traveler by Italo Calvino.

[38:11] Okay.

[38:11] Where?

[38:12] Sure.

[38:13] Keep going.

[38:14] Okay.

[38:14] If I can reference Sinclair Lewis's Doddsworth for a second.

[38:17] Uh-huh.

Dan McCoy

[38:26] Hi.

[38:27] It's Dan here.

[38:28] If you like listening to The Flophouse, why not visit us on the web at www.flophousepodcast.com,

[38:36] where you can find show notes, videos, fan art, and links to Wikipedia synopses of all the

[38:42] Flophouse films, so you can play along at home.

[38:45] If you're looking for more Flophouse stuff, check out our Facebook page, where you can discuss

[38:50] the show with other fans, or subscribe to our Twitter feed at TheFlophousePod.

[38:56] Your support helps us build an audience, so if you like the show, why not vote for us at

[39:00] Podcast Alley, or subscribe to the show on iTunes.

[39:04] And while you're there, take a moment to write a review.

[39:07] Links for everything can be found on the webpage.

[39:10] Lastly, we love hearing from you, so if you have thoughts, feedback, or suggestions, let

[39:14] us know at theflophousepodcast at gmail.com.

[39:19] Now back to the show.

[39:26] We have some letters, but I don't have them for us to read.

[39:30] Dan hosting fail.

[39:32] Because, uh, I didn't hook up my printer today and print them out.

[39:37] So, uh, that's on me.

Elliott Kalan

[39:38] Well, do you remember what they said?

[39:40] I imagine one of them went, Dear Flophouse, I love your show.

[39:43] Stuart is really funny when he talks about his penis.

[39:45] Elliot sure knows a lot.

[39:46] Well, that's all I know about the Flophouse.

[39:47] Goodbye.

[39:48] Signed, some great listener.

[39:50] Some fool.

Stuart Wellington

[39:50] Joe Everyman.

[39:52] Last name with L.

[39:53] Signed, law-abiding citizen.

[39:54] Shit.

Elliott Kalan

[39:55] Oh, shit.

[39:55] Don't answer that.

Dan McCoy

[39:56] No, I don't remember the specifics, although there was one that was very happy that I put

[40:01] up a message on our website saying that we were still something that existed.

[40:06] So, okay.

[40:07] Yeah, we did take that.

Elliott Kalan

[40:08] We should apologize for the long break we took.

[40:10] Although, you know what?

[40:11] We do this for no pay, so why should we apologize?

Stuart Wellington

[40:13] We've had a lot of stuff, like you've been busy, and you've been busy too, and well, I've

[40:20] been unemployed for a little while now.

[40:22] Oh, you're going to talk about this?

[40:24] Yeah, like, oh, it's just rough.

[40:26] It's rough out there, guys.

Dan McCoy

[40:28] I imagine it is, like, shopping for guns to kill yourself, shopping for bullets for the

[40:34] guns.

Elliott Kalan

[40:36] Yeah.

[40:36] Going to tea party protests.

[40:37] Well, I was going to try and go with a crossbow.

[40:39] Wow.

[40:41] Well, because, I don't know.

[40:42] For class.

Stuart Wellington

[40:43] Yeah, it seems cool.

Dan McCoy

[40:44] It seems like that would be really hard to, like, just, like, hold up to your head, like,

[40:49] in a steady enough way.

Stuart Wellington

[40:50] Well, he's using one of those old big ones, too, that you need to wind with a...

[40:52] Yeah, and then normally, like, the, like, that they would usually,

[40:56] protect themselves with a large pavise.

Dan McCoy

[40:58] This...

[40:59] This killing yourself plan seems less well put together than...

[41:05] Well...

[41:05] Even the one where you catapulted yourself just into the distance.

Stuart Wellington

[41:10] Sure, yeah.

[41:11] Well, that was...

[41:12] The problem with that was the lack of foresight.

[41:13] I didn't actually have a clear vision.

[41:15] I didn't have, like, a vision of success.

[41:17] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[41:18] You shouldn't have done it, like, in front of the ocean, too.

[41:20] No, yeah, that's true.

[41:22] A soft landing.

Elliott Kalan

[41:23] Mm-hmm.

[41:23] Time you tried to kill yourself with kindness.

[41:26] That didn't work.

[41:27] No.

[41:27] You felt really good, though.

[41:29] I mean, for a little while.

Dan McCoy

[41:31] Put on a little weight, though, from all the ice cream you're eating.

Elliott Kalan

[41:34] Well, the other thing, he thought he'd compound it with a death by chocolate, but...

Stuart Wellington

[41:37] Yeah.

[41:39] And my grilled cheese hamburgers I was eating.

[41:41] Yeah.

[41:42] Grilled cheese hamburgers.

[41:43] Where you put a hamburger in between two pieces of grilled cheese.

Elliott Kalan

[41:46] Wait, so in between grilled cheese sandwiches or just pieces of cheese?

[41:50] No, it's...

[41:51] Because that's just a cheeseburger.

Stuart Wellington

[41:52] No, no, no.

[41:53] I'm saying you take two grilled cheese sandwiches and a hamburger in the middle.

[41:58] So it's like a double down.

[41:58] I imagine you, like...

[41:59] Kind of, yeah.

[41:59] But with cheese sandwiches.

Dan McCoy

[42:00] You make them really thin, like with a panini press, so they're, like, more of a...

[42:03] I mean, you could.

[42:04] I like a big Texas toast.

[42:06] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[42:07] You make...

[42:08] But that's because, you know, I'm from the country.

[42:10] You also make the cheese sandwiches on French toast, yeah.

[42:14] Well...

[42:14] So it's really thick.

[42:15] Yeah, that's what I make...

[42:16] That's what I'm doing, like an ice brunch.

Dan McCoy

[42:17] You make the grilled cheese sandwiches out of French bread pizza, so...

[42:22] And Oreo pizza.

Stuart Wellington

[42:25] Well, the bottom is Oreo pizza, the top is Red Baron.

Elliott Kalan

[42:28] And then you...

[42:29] What kind of cheese are you using for this?

Stuart Wellington

[42:32] Wait, on what?

[42:32] The cheese...

Elliott Kalan

[42:34] On the cheese sandwich that's made in...

Stuart Wellington

[42:35] Cream cheese, of course.

[42:36] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[42:37] And then you put a hamburger...

[42:37] And Gruyere on the bottom.

[42:38] And then you put a hamburger in between.

Stuart Wellington

[42:40] Yeah, well, you know, like...

[42:42] I like to call it a steak burger, but that just classes it up.

Dan McCoy

[42:45] All right.

[42:46] Yeah, it's always a big fried egg on top of the whole thing, so...

[42:48] No, not so much.

[42:50] Sounds like a Chivito.

[42:50] A couple of onion rings.

Elliott Kalan

[42:51] The national sandwich of Uruguay.

Stuart Wellington

[42:54] And some guanchiola, unsmoked bacon.

[42:58] Comes from the hog's jowl.

[43:00] Wow, very specific.

[43:02] Yeah, it's delicious.

Dan McCoy

[43:04] Well...

[43:04] So, that, my sandwich.

[43:05] Oh, guys.

Elliott Kalan

[43:05] We just talked about my sandwich.

[43:06] Okay.

[43:07] Your suicide sandwich.

Dan McCoy

[43:08] Suicide is hilarious, guys.

Elliott Kalan

[43:09] Stuart Wellington suicide sandwich.

[43:11] I think the recipe should go up on the website.

[43:15] I think my video listeners should transcribe that and save me the recipe.

[43:20] Eventually, you're going to put out our Flophouse cookbook.

[43:21] Yeah.

[43:21] What movie would you name that sandwich after in our Flophouse cookbook?

[43:25] Would it be the law-abiding sandwich?

[43:26] Yes, I like that one.

Stuart Wellington

[43:28] The thing about that sandwich is that it kind of turns everything on its ear.

[43:33] Everything that you've come to believe about this world, it kind of pokes holes in all the hypocrisy of it all.

Elliott Kalan

[43:41] Yeah, it just takes 10 years, though.

[43:42] Yeah, that's the thing.

Dan McCoy

[43:43] Everything you used to thought a sandwich was.

Elliott Kalan

[43:46] Used to thought a sandwich was.

Stuart Wellington

[43:48] It's cool.

[43:50] It's been a while since you've done a lot of improv, right?

[43:52] I haven't talked in a while.

[43:53] Okay, yeah.

[43:55] So what other letters were there?

Elliott Kalan

[43:57] So we answered the first one.

Dan McCoy

[44:00] I can't remember.

[44:02] I will have those for the next time.

[44:05] Do we do anything else in this podcast?

[44:07] What we do now, to close things out and to not seem like we're jerks, is we talk about that.

[44:16] Everyone's looking around because my phone is ringing off in the distance.

[44:20] To the Halloween theme.

[44:21] The Halloween theme is mine.

[44:22] So I thought Michael Myers was coming to kill us.

[44:24] That was very distracting.

Stuart Wellington

[44:25] I was trying to find the DVD player so I could turn off that shitty movie.

[44:28] Okay.

Dan McCoy

[44:29] Whoa!

[44:30] Wow.

[44:31] Okay, let's move on.

[44:32] We talked about movies that we saw recently, or not so recently, if we haven't seen anything recently,

[44:37] that we liked and would recommend that you watch, perhaps in lieu of Law Abiding Citizen.

Stuart Wellington

[44:45] Well, I'm going to go first, guys.

[44:47] Two nights ago, I went to see the midnight showing of Iron Man 2.

[44:51] What?

[44:52] Midnight showing.

[44:53] I know.

[44:53] He just couldn't wait.

[44:55] Yeah, I couldn't wait.

[44:56] I had to see what was going to happen.

[44:58] And then I had to leave after about 30 minutes because my girlfriend got sick.

[45:01] But the first 30 minutes were really good.

[45:04] I really enjoyed it.

[45:05] So I recommend the first 30 minutes of Iron Man 2.

[45:08] And do you recommend leaving because your girlfriend gets sick at that point?

[45:12] Absolutely.

[45:13] Interesting.

[45:14] Well, she would appreciate it.

Dan McCoy

[45:17] Yeah, she'd appreciate it.

[45:18] She'd say, well, she's a really nice guy.

[45:19] If you don't go, shh, shh, shh.

Elliott Kalan

[45:20] I'm like, eh, shh.

[45:21] I really wanted to see Iron Man 2.

[45:23] I kind of wanted to see how Whiplash was going to fight Iron Man.

Stuart Wellington

[45:26] Yeah, well, that was the thing.

[45:28] And it, like, the first 30 minutes, they asked a lot of questions.

[45:32] And I'm looking forward to seeing the answers, you know.

Dan McCoy

[45:35] You're a real sweetheart, Stuart.

[45:37] That's what we learned.

[45:37] America's sweetheart.

[45:38] Mm-hmm.

[45:39] I want to recommend a movie I watched called Road Games.

[45:43] Did you see all of it?

[45:44] I saw all of it.

[45:45] I first heard about it because it was...

Elliott Kalan

[45:47] Even though your wife got sick about 30 minutes in.

Dan McCoy

[45:49] Yes, I was like, shut up.

[45:51] The Road Games.

[45:53] I'm missing the Road Games.

[45:54] Just Road Games, but...

Elliott Kalan

[45:56] All of the Road Games.

[45:57] The Road Games are in Road Games.

Dan McCoy

[45:59] Okay.

[45:59] I watched it on DVD.

[46:01] I heard about this movie first because it was in that movie, Not Quite Hollywood, about

[46:06] osploitation films.

[46:08] Ah, yes.

[46:09] The recent documentary.

[46:11] Yeah, about Australian exploitation.

[46:14] But it stars Stacey Keech, who I always have enjoyed.

Elliott Kalan

[46:20] Ah, star of the ninth configuration.

Dan McCoy

[46:21] Yeah.

[46:22] And it has a very young Jamie Lee Curtis in it.

Elliott Kalan

[46:25] Ah, star of blue steel.

Dan McCoy

[46:28] And it's very...

[46:30] True lies.

[46:31] Is she in that?

[46:33] Yeah, probably.

[46:34] She must have a small part.

[46:35] It's very overtly a Hitchcock...

[46:40] Not a pastiche, but it's very influenced by Hitchcock.

[46:45] The movie's about a long-haul truck driver who has a refrigerated truck full of meat.

[46:52] And there's a killer out there who's been killing hitchhikers.

[46:55] And over the course of driving the truck, it's sort of a rear window situation where he can, like, see into people's cars.

[47:03] And there are people that he keeps passing.

[47:05] So it's like midnight meat truck.

[47:07] Mm-hmm.

[47:08] And he becomes convinced that one of the people that he sees is the killer.

[47:13] And it's just a lot of fun.

[47:15] I mean, I think that the late 70s, early 80s were kind of, like, the last gasp of, like, really good, fun, just solid thrillers.

[47:23] Like, before everything got stupid and twist-oriented.

[47:27] This is very carefully constructed suspense.

[47:31] And the guy who directed this, you know, big Hitchcock fan, like I said, went on to direct Psycho 2, which is a film that did not need to happen.

[47:39] But if it had to happen...

[47:40] Says you.

[47:41] Psycho 2 was a much better, like, sequel than you would sort of expect.

Stuart Wellington

[47:45] So you're saying...

[47:46] Certainly better than Psycho 3.

[47:47] Yeah.

[47:47] But, I mean, how's the twist at the end of Road to the Crest?

Dan McCoy

[47:51] No twist.

[47:53] But there is a dingo in the movie.

[47:56] The guy has a dingo that he drives around with.

Elliott Kalan

[48:00] Not really much of a twist.

[48:02] No, I'm just saying it's fun.

[48:03] There's a dingo in it.

[48:05] Okay.

[48:07] Elliot.

[48:09] This is a movie I may have recommended on the show before, but maybe I have.

[48:12] I don't think I have.

[48:13] I haven't had a lot of time to see a lot of movies.

[48:15] And the one I'm watching, I've seen three movies in a row now that I didn't particularly care for.

[48:21] And I can tell you what they are.

[48:23] Sure, why not?

[48:24] I'm going to bag on some other movies while we're at it.

[48:26] Born on the 4th of July, which I thought was meh.

[48:28] Not very good.

[48:28] The Cheap Detective, which I thought was meh.

[48:31] That was the follow-up to Murder by Death.

[48:34] And right now I'm nearing the end of Munchausen, the 1943, I think it is, Nazi film about Baron Munchausen.

[48:43] Huh.

[48:43] Where there's nothing really Nazi in it.

[48:45] They wanted to make, like, a Technicolor, big-budget fantasy film to compete with the other ones being made around that time, like Wizard of Oz.

[48:52] And I guess Thief of Baghdad and things like that.

[48:55] Nazi kids need entertainment too.

[48:57] And it is so, like, they are so worried about the details of the time period and making sure everyone knows what's going on all the time and all the characters are jerks.

[49:07] So it's not that great.

[49:08] But there is topless women in it, which is strange for a fantasy film from the 1940s.

[49:15] But a movie that I re-watched recently to show it to my fiancée when she wasn't feeling so well and get her mind off of things was this movie called Dames, which I don't know if I've talked about.

[49:27] Which is a Busby Berkeley film from the 30s that's one of his less heralded ones.

[49:32] But I enjoy it more than 42nd Street or many of his others.

[49:37] And it's the same basic thing about, like, these people want to put on a show, they need money, the parents disapprove of this girl's wanting to be on the stage, blah, blah, blah.

[49:48] But it's really goofy.

[49:50] Like, everything about it is really goofy and silly and as ludicrous as possible.

[49:54] The big names in it, aside from Dick Powell and Ruby Keillor, Zazu Pitts, Guy Kibbe, Hugh Herbert, big names.

Dan McCoy

[50:04] Household names.

Elliott Kalan

[50:05] Oh, yeah.

[50:06] But, like, kind of the cream of the crop of the, like, supporting players that were at, I guess it was...

Dan McCoy

[50:12] Yeah, I've heard of one out of three of those people you mentioned.

Elliott Kalan

[50:15] I don't even remember what studio it was, MGM or Warner Brothers or something.

[50:18] But, like, the cream of the crop of, like, the second tier guys.

[50:21] And it's really goofy and silly and there are some musical numbers in it that being Busby Berkeley numbers are crazy.

[50:27] And are just...

[50:28] There's one that I've shown people a number of times called The Girl at the Ironing Board where Joan Blondel, who's the other big star in it, is a 19th century laundress singing about her crushes that she has on all the customers of the laundry just based on the underwear that they send in, that she has to wash.

[50:46] And how turned on she is by washing this underwear.

[50:49] Wow.

[50:49] So this is a movie from 1934, I think.

[50:53] And it's a lot of fun.

[50:54] Sure.

Dan McCoy

[50:55] All right.

[50:56] So that's three recommendations for Back to the Future Part 2.

[51:00] So I guess that's it, guys.

[51:02] Yeah, it's been good.

Elliott Kalan

[51:04] Well, it feels good getting back in the saddle.

[51:06] We were a little rusty.

Stuart Wellington

[51:07] Yeah, you know.

[51:08] Well, I'm just not very funny, so...

[51:10] What?

[51:11] Yeah, I was waiting for you guys to, you know, thank me for that.

[51:13] I refuse to dignify it.

[51:15] I was just waiting for compliments.

Elliott Kalan

[51:16] Thanks, dude.

[51:17] No, you're really...

[51:18] Come on, Stuart.

[51:19] You're the glue that holds us together.

[51:19] You guys are fucking crazy.

[51:21] You're the Michelangelo.

[51:22] Okay.

[51:22] You're the Raphael.

Dan McCoy

[51:23] I won't buy the...

[51:24] You're the Wolverine.

[51:26] Come on.

[51:27] Yeah, if anyone has a job for Stuart, write in.

[51:30] Yeah.

[51:31] Weird, yeah.

[51:32] Harness the power of the internet.

Stuart Wellington

[51:33] I'm a lot like Wolverine.

[51:36] He's the Wolverine of the group.

[51:37] I'm the best at what I do, bub.

[51:39] And what you do is...

[51:40] Is it pretty?

[51:41] No, never.

[51:42] Or rarely, at least.

Elliott Kalan

[51:44] I'm surprised you've talked about your prowess so much in public and the size of your penis

[51:49] that you haven't gone in for pleasuring women who order pizzas with extra anchovies.

Stuart Wellington

[51:54] You know, I considered it, but I figured I'd spend too much time learning how to dance

[51:59] with them and helping them kind of solve their various issues, and now I'm not really into

[52:03] that.

Elliott Kalan

[52:04] All right.

[52:05] I see.

[52:05] Well, you could just deliver pizzas then.

[52:07] Oh, yeah.

[52:07] To lonely California housewives.

[52:10] Divorcees.

[52:10] Yeah, that's not a bad idea.

Dan McCoy

[52:12] We'll continue to job counsel Stuart off air, but for now, I've been Dan McCoy.

[52:17] I've been Stuart Wellington.

Elliott Kalan

[52:18] I am Ellie Kalin.

[52:20] Now and forever, no beginning or end.

[52:22] Wow.

[52:22] A turtle.

S4

[52:24] Meowt.

Elliott Kalan

[52:32] Meowt.

[52:34] Where did you pick that up?

Elliott Kalan

[52:38] Or who it is.

Dan McCoy

[52:41] And then I inherited singing meowt to every song.

[52:44] Yeah.

[52:45] Well, it works.

[52:46] It works, biatch.

[52:48] Well, you can sing pretty much anything to me.

Elliott Kalan

[52:51] Yeah, I mean, I guess.

[52:53] Not the Meow Mix song.

[52:57] No.

[52:57] Can't sing meowt of that.

The Flop House: Episode #59 - Law Abiding Citizen

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