Ep. #453 - Love Hurts

Dan McCoy

[0:00] On this episode, we discuss love hurts.

Stuart Wellington

[0:03] Love bites, love bleeds.

[0:05] It's bringing me to my knees.

[0:07] Deaf Leopard.

Dan McCoy

[0:10] Thanks, the Oxford familiar Deaf Leopards quotations.

[0:16] Lovable quotables.

[0:30] The Oxford familiar Deaf Leopards quotations.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00] Don't break your podcasting glasses.

[1:02] Okay, what do we do here?

[1:03] Hold on.

Dan McCoy

[1:04] This is a podcast where we watch a movie that was either a critical or a commercial flop,

[1:09] and then we talk about it on this episode.

[1:12] This is what I finally understand.

Stuart Wellington

[1:14] Yeah.

[1:15] Actually, that's probably the most succinct summary of the show you've ever done.

Dan McCoy

[1:18] But we're gumming it up by talking about it now.

Stuart Wellington

[1:20] Okay, let's not praise you.

[1:22] Sure.

[1:23] I'll come to bury Dan not to praise him.

[1:25] Hand me that shovel.

[1:26] Yeah, Dan's therapist texted me and was like,

[1:28] can you minimize Dan some more?

[1:32] That's what I really need.

[1:33] That's the problem, yeah.

[1:33] My therapist got in touch with you.

[1:36] Dan's getting too big for his riches.

[1:38] Yeah, we go out for drinks once a week.

Dan McCoy

[1:40] Dan needs one.

[1:41] The problem is too much self-confidence.

[1:42] Yeah, we yap about Dan.

Elliott Kalan

[1:44] I'm saying that prescribing for Dan what we in the therapy business call a smackdown.

[1:51] Yeah, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:52] How raw is a smackdown?

Elliott Kalan

[1:53] Now let's...

[1:54] Guys, we got to talk about love sharts, right?

[1:56] So we'll get to it.

[1:57] No, no.

[1:57] Love hurts.

[1:58] Love hurts.

[1:58] Oh, right.

Dan McCoy

[1:59] Oh.

[1:59] What did I watch?

[2:00] Whoa.

[2:02] So this is part of the Kihi Kwan...

[2:10] Assance.

[2:12] Assance.

[2:12] The resurgence.

[2:14] And I just want to say up front, love this guy.

[2:17] Loved his child performances.

[2:19] Loved him coming back.

[2:20] Everything, everywhere, all at once.

[2:22] I think he comes out of this movie smelling surprisingly good considering how this movie eats up people who I've enjoyed before.

[2:31] Yeah, that's fair.

[2:32] But the movie is not that great.

[2:34] Not to get ahead of myself.

Stuart Wellington

[2:35] Yeah, Dan's being nice up front because he's going to be mean and bad.

[2:40] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[2:40] Well, I'm just like, I feel bad because I like...

[2:42] You know in Dan's complimentary at the top that he is going to be a fucking savage during the movie.

[2:46] I feel bad.

Dan McCoy

[2:48] This is a guy who I have a lot of fondness for who hasn't come back and he's getting, you know, his starring role.

[2:53] But I wish it was a better starring role.

Stuart Wellington

[2:55] But it's so symptomatic of any time a actor, especially an actor that you like, wins an Academy Award for a supporting role.

Elliott Kalan

[3:03] Yes.

[3:03] Well, because who else is in this movie?

[3:05] Ariana DeBose, who won the Academy Award for a supporting role and has been in crap since then.

[3:10] Like, is Craven?

[3:11] Craven?

[3:12] I call it crappin'.

[3:14] Oh, damn.

[3:15] You're the savage one today.

[3:17] Thank you.

[3:17] You have two people experiencing what I would call the curse of Cuba Gooding.

[3:21] Cuba Gooding Jr., that is.

[3:22] Not Cuba Gooding, the musician.

[3:24] His father.

[3:25] But, yeah, you're exactly right, Dan.

[3:26] It is exciting to see Kwan in a starring role, but you wish it was not this movie.

[3:33] Yeah.

[3:33] You know?

[3:34] You wish it was not what I'm going to preview, what I'm going to call what feels like a warmed-over Tarantino rip-off script from 1996.

Dan McCoy

[3:42] Well, it's that and it's also a real nobody of a John Wick.

[3:45] It's all of those things.

[3:47] Yes.

[3:48] But, anyway, so let's talk about it.

[3:51] That's what we're here for, according to what you said earlier.

[3:54] We meet our lead, played by Kwan, Marvin Gable.

[4:00] He's monologuing about what he loves about Valentine's Day, which is sort of this lame stab at a thematic thing for this movie that doesn't amount to much ever.

Stuart Wellington

[4:09] And it's the start of a number of voiceovers that feel very much added in in post.

[4:15] Yes.

Elliott Kalan

[4:16] I mean, there's a lot of ADR in this movie that is not very good.

[4:20] There's that, like, I'm sure they tried their best, but a lot of this movie feels like it was finessed at a later date for some reason.

[4:27] That we can only guess.

Dan McCoy

[4:28] This movie is 83 minutes long and it is nutty.

Elliott Kalan

[4:32] And no one sets out to make an 83-minute movie in the year 2024, 2025.

Dan McCoy

[4:37] Yeah.

[4:37] It is nutty how much, like, there is clear ADR papering over.

[4:41] Like, there's scenes where, like, Ariana DeBose is, like, just explaining the plot to people who should know it already.

[4:47] Yeah.

[4:47] With her back to the camera and you're like, this was all added later.

[4:50] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[4:50] And I will say, the movie kind of keeps, and I wonder if there must be a longer cut of it somewhere, but the movie kind of keeps forgetting that love is the theme that it's supposed to be hitting.

[5:00] And then remembering it and then in voiceover really hitting it hard.

[5:03] And it feels a little bit at times like you're watching a kid give a book report about a book that they didn't read that closely.

[5:10] And every now and then they're like, oh, yeah.

S6

[5:12] Oh, and there's a dog in it, too.

Elliott Kalan

[5:14] Yeah.

[5:14] And the dog is important, too.

[5:16] Yeah, yeah.

[5:16] That kind of thing.

Dan McCoy

[5:16] The back cover mentions love.

[5:18] So, yeah, love is important.

[5:20] Mm-hmm.

[5:21] Love hurts.

Elliott Kalan

[5:22] Land of contrasts.

[5:23] You know, there's many ways you can talk about love hurts.

Dan McCoy

[5:27] My hypothesis is love helps, but it also hurts.

[5:32] The dichotomy of love.

Elliott Kalan

[5:34] In conclusion, love hurts is an 83-minute film.

[5:37] Thank you.

Dan McCoy

[5:39] Marvin seems to be a mild-mannered real estate agent.

Elliott Kalan

[5:43] I have to assume that's exactly what he is, Dan.

[5:45] He couldn't be anything else.

Dan McCoy

[5:47] No, this is a man you don't want to fuck with.

[5:49] But as we are introduced to him, he's riding around town on his bike.

[5:54] He's recycling bottles.

[5:55] You know, he's getting mad that people will draw mustaches on him on his real estate posters.

Stuart Wellington

[5:59] He seems kind of like a nerd, right?

[6:02] Yeah.

[6:02] Like a little bit of a boring nerd who's too into his job.

Dan McCoy

[6:07] And this sort of opening montage is about all we get in terms of character development for this character.

[6:14] There's so little setup for why we should care about any of these people.

Elliott Kalan

[6:18] I mean, sometimes that's not a bad thing.

[6:21] Like a good movie sometimes uses the shorthand of our appreciation for the performer to build a character.

[6:28] And like I am on his side right from the start because I like him.

[6:31] I like this performer.

[6:32] But yeah, they don't give –

[6:33] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[6:34] Even the –

[6:35] It's like Tom Cruise in Tropic Thunder, right?

Elliott Kalan

[6:38] Yeah, exactly.

[6:40] I mean, yes and no.

[6:41] In that time, the whole joke of Tom Cruise in Tropic Thunder is can you believe Tom Cruise is playing this character?

[6:46] Like that character is doesn't – the joke doesn't work with a performer who's not like Tom Cruise.

[6:49] But the physical transformation, Elliot.

[6:51] Well, that's what I'm saying.

[6:52] To see that character is not funny unless you're like, that's Tom Cruise underneath all that anti-Semitic makeup that he's wearing right now.

[6:59] And so here they're really playing off like we know you like this guy.

[7:03] But it makes it hard.

[7:05] I feel like the qualities that make him likable really fight the idea that, as we'll discover, he is a monstrous killing machine when he gets set off.

Dan McCoy

[7:13] Also during this opening, just because it briefly comes into play later, I mentioned that –

[7:18] There's a property brother?

[7:19] There's a rival real estate guy played by one of the property brothers.

[7:22] Which one?

[7:23] I don't know.

[7:24] The one who acts.

Elliott Kalan

[7:25] It's either the one who's married to Zooey Dijonel or the one who's not.

Dan McCoy

[7:28] Yeah.

[7:29] There's not a third secret property brother?

[7:30] I don't think it's the third one that they keep chained in the attic of all the houses that they show on the show.

[7:34] And the theme of this real estate guy is that he's got a karate gi on and he's doing karate stuff.

[7:40] I will say –

[7:40] He's a tough guy.

Elliott Kalan

[7:41] I will say I was at first personally offended that a property brother was acting in a movie that I was watching.

[7:47] Yeah.

[7:48] But I don't know.

[7:49] There's something about the height that the property brothers achieved in the entertainment world that seems baffling to me.

[7:54] But I got to say he comes off pretty funny in this movie.

Dan McCoy

[7:57] Yeah.

[7:57] I mean we'll get to it.

[7:58] But it's a minor hype point of the film.

[8:01] Yeah.

[8:01] He gives maybe the best comedy performance in the film.

Stuart Wellington

[8:04] When one of his characters' posters, like we see a glimpse of it, I first was worried it was what?

[8:11] Zachary Levi?

[8:12] Levy?

[8:13] Yeah.

[8:13] And I was like, oh, fuck.

[8:15] And then when it wasn't, I was like, hell yeah.

[8:17] Anybody but that dude.

Elliott Kalan

[8:18] Yeah.

[8:19] You know what?

[8:20] I'm okay with property brothers.

[8:21] This episode is going to come out after it turns out one of them is a monster or something.

[8:24] But I'm okay with property brothers until I learn that.

[8:26] You have only one though and you'll never guess which one.

[8:29] And you don't know which one.

[8:29] So you have to have a moment where you have a gun and the property brothers are like, shoot him.

[8:32] He's the evil property brother.

Dan McCoy

[8:34] We meet his assistant, Ashley, who's played by Leo Tipton.

[8:38] I'm going to briefly say this performer uses they, them pronouns.

[8:43] And in the absence of any evidence that the character doesn't also use such pronouns, I'll try and remember to use them.

[8:49] But I apologize if my brain slips.

[8:51] And of course, I spent the first 10 minutes being like, where do I know them from?

Stuart Wellington

[8:56] America's next top model?

[8:58] I was going to say Crazy Stupid Love.

[9:00] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[9:01] They were the babysitter that was in love with Steve Carell and Steve Carell's son was in love with them.

[9:06] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[9:08] I guess I'm the only one who knew them from their history as a juvenile figure skater.

Dan McCoy

[9:12] Oh, really?

[9:13] No, I'm just reading that right now in their Wikipedia entry.

[9:16] Oh, wow.

[9:17] Well, the thing about Ashley is that they aren't as enthusiastic about real estate as Marvin.

[9:22] And they're thinking of quitting.

[9:25] Marvin tries to go in his office and is immediately knocked out by some mysterious person.

[9:29] And he wakes up with his hand stabbed to his desk with a knife, which is the sort of injury that would cause so much more pain and trouble than a movie like this acknowledges.

Elliott Kalan

[9:39] That is an injury that looks like it would sever nerves.

[9:42] Like you're losing the use of fingers.

[9:44] And instead he's just like, ah!

[9:46] And that's it.

[9:47] Now I'm going to use it to punch people for the rest of the movie.

Stuart Wellington

[9:49] Oh, that's the movie.

[9:50] The other day I was taking apart a frozen drink machine and I was unscrewing like a bolt or something using like some pliers.

[9:59] Uh-huh.

[9:59] So he checks out so far.

[10:01] And I managed to pinch the tip of my finger and it like turned into a big blood blister and it was gross.

[10:06] But it was like the amount of pain and then subsequent pain and annoyance for the rest of the next couple days.

[10:12] Yeah.

[10:12] And that wasn't even a stab through the hand.

[10:14] That was just a mush of a fingertip.

Dan McCoy

[10:18] Turned out this stabby knife belongs to a bad poetry writing assassin called The Raven.

[10:23] Who throws around little sharp feathers and has blade arms.

Stuart Wellington

[10:28] What's the blade arm part of it?

[10:30] What is – why is that The Raven?

[10:32] Is that – was that part of Edgar Allan Poe's –

[10:34] I guess it's kind of a explanation.

[10:34] Yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[10:35] You remember thinking, once upon a midnight dreary as I pondered weak and weary over many curious volume of forgotten lore, a raven came and slashed my throat.

[10:43] Oh, no, I said.

[10:44] Yeah, yeah.

[10:45] But no one heard me.

[10:46] But no one heard.

[10:47] As I gurgled on my blood.

[10:50] Loosed as some scarlet flood and so forth and so forth.

[10:53] Yeah, yeah.

[10:53] Sure, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[10:55] He shows Marvin a valentine that is signed by someone named Rose.

[11:00] And The Raven says that Marvin's brother is wondering why Rose is spreading love on Valentine's Day.

[11:04] Who wants his brother's name?

[11:06] Knuckles.

[11:07] Now not –

Elliott Kalan

[11:07] And I was like, hell yeah.

Dan McCoy

[11:09] Not Idris Elba.

[11:10] Oh.

[11:11] No.

Elliott Kalan

[11:11] This also – and this is something I shouldn't –

Stuart Wellington

[11:13] Guys, if this movie, the villain had been an animated video game character, I think I would have liked it more.

[11:19] Yeah.

[11:19] There's still supposed to be brothers.

Elliott Kalan

[11:21] Yeah.

[11:21] Because it's not any – it's only a little bit.

[11:23] It's a little bit different from the fact that they're brothers, but one of them has a heavy accent and the other does not, which is an interesting choice.

[11:29] So just go ahead and make them different types of beings.

[11:32] Well, also –

Dan McCoy

[11:32] It's like if Fozzie and Kermit can be brothers in The Great Muppet Caper, why not?

[11:35] You know, Quan is Vietnamese and the brother is from Hong Kong, but, you know, Hollywood doesn't care.

[11:41] It's all the same to Hollywood.

[11:42] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[11:43] I mean, Quan has played any number of Chinese characters.

[11:47] No, I know.

Dan McCoy

[11:47] It happens that way often.

[11:49] It's just funny to me.

[11:51] Marvin claims to not know where she is, and we have our first fight, and we see Marvin uncork his kung fu powers.

Elliott Kalan

[12:00] Now, what do you think about these fights?

[12:01] Because the director of this movie is a fight guy.

[12:03] Like, he's a fight choreography guy.

[12:06] But I found that the fights, I was kind of like – there weren't any that I was like super charged by, super thrilled by.

Stuart Wellington

[12:15] I feel like everybody is capable.

[12:17] I think the – it does feel like the – it's shot and then sped up.

[12:23] I could be wrong, but there was something that felt a little bit off, like enhanced with the fight sequence.

Dan McCoy

[12:29] I think the fights are pretty good.

[12:33] They are mostly like sort of like the first level though.

[12:37] Like, I mean, they're good fight choreography, but they don't have something else going on except for one that I'll single out soon.

[12:42] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[12:43] There's not a lot of like inventiveness, right?

[12:46] It's a lot of blocks, kicks.

[12:48] They're not using their settings a huge amount.

Dan McCoy

[12:51] I mean, I think a lot of the problem too though is also like you don't care about these characters.

[12:55] Yeah.

[12:56] And it doesn't build.

[12:58] Like, I was going to get to it later, but like Rose keeps saying like, I need you to be the man you were.

[13:03] I'm like, I don't know, man.

[13:04] He seems like he's basically the same throughout the whole thing.

[13:07] Like he's a little more concerned about not killing people at the beginning than he is at the end.

[13:11] But it's not such a difference in his brutality that you're like, oh yeah, now he's really unleashed.

[13:17] The beast is out.

[13:18] Yeah.

[13:18] You know, which I think is a problem.

[13:20] It should build.

[13:22] But anyway.

[13:24] They do actually, and they also do that.

Elliott Kalan

[13:25] I will say they also do the thing, which is always funny, where there's a group, later on there's a group of people attacking him.

[13:30] And they all, you can see they're all kind of waiting their turn to get in.

[13:34] Yeah.

[13:34] Because that's the way it's set up, you know.

[13:35] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[13:37] So he's able to knock the Raven out without anyone in the office party going on.

Stuart Wellington

[13:41] Guys, if you were a goon, you would probably wait for your turn, right?

[13:44] Because you're like, I've got all these fucking moves I've been practicing.

[13:48] I don't want to like bump into Jerry or whatever while he's writing this dude.

Elliott Kalan

[13:51] But also, it's just goon professionalism and respect.

[13:55] You let the first guy have his shot, then you take your shot.

[13:58] You're not going to horn in on his fight territory.

[13:59] Yeah, sure, sure.

Dan McCoy

[14:00] Because you've got to work with these goons, you know.

Elliott Kalan

[14:01] Yes.

[14:02] And maybe you don't have a fucking vibe with someone else, you know.

[14:05] Yeah.

[14:05] If you're not going to get murdered in this fight, then you're going to have to see this guy tomorrow.

[14:08] The person you're fighting, you may never see them again.

[14:10] So who's the priority?

[14:12] That's a good point.

Dan McCoy

[14:14] So Marvin goes to his bluff.

Elliott Kalan

[14:15] And by goon, you mean like a fighting thug.

[14:19] You don't mean someone who just masturbates a lot on the internet.

Stuart Wellington

[14:21] Yeah.

[14:22] I mean, you can be both.

[14:24] That's a good point.

[14:25] You've got to fill time between those fights.

Dan McCoy

[14:29] So Marvin goes over to his boss's office.

[14:31] Cliff, played by Sean Astin.

[14:33] So we get a Goonies movie.

[14:34] It's every Goonies.

[14:35] Speaking of goons.

Elliott Kalan

[14:36] Right.

[14:37] Goons back in.

[14:38] So what if the Goonies was about kids discovering masturbation for the first time?

Stuart Wellington

[14:41] I mean, if you look at the movie from a certain angle.

Elliott Kalan

[14:44] Oh, interesting.

[14:46] The treasure hunt is really a metaphor for the treasure of our own bodies.

[14:49] You went in that direction.

[14:50] You went in that direction.

[14:51] And hunting for what makes that.

[14:51] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[14:52] Rather than being like, oh, you know, they saw the Fratelli's influence and they're like,

[14:55] oh, I could be a goon in my career.

[14:58] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[14:58] Oh, I see.

[14:59] I should start beating people up and pushing them out of their houses or whatever.

[15:02] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[15:03] So Cliff gives him a framed cigarette, a cigarette certificate.

Elliott Kalan

[15:07] A framed cigarette.

[15:08] He says, Elvis once held this cigarette.

[15:10] That's why I framed it.

[15:12] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[15:12] I'm sick.

[15:13] A framed certificate naming him Regional Realtor of the Year, which really touches Marvin.

[15:19] He hugs Cliff and he's like, you've changed me.

[15:21] You've, you know, like you turned my life around.

[15:24] And he borrows Cliff's car to get out of there.

Stuart Wellington

[15:26] It's also really cool because Sean Astin wears his big 10-gallon hat and he has this

[15:32] like act of like a Texas guy.

[15:34] Yeah.

[15:35] Which added to my questions of like, where the fuck is this movie supposed to take place?

[15:38] Yeah, because the license plate on his car says Wisconsin.

[15:40] Yeah.

[15:41] And apparently it is Wisconsin is where it's supposed to be set.

[15:43] It was all shot in Canada.

[15:44] Yeah.

[15:45] So I think.

Dan McCoy

[15:45] People don't move from one state to another.

Elliott Kalan

[15:48] No, but it is an interesting choice to have a guy who's like, I'm from Texas.

[15:52] I'm a cowboy.

[15:53] Here I am in Wisconsin.

[15:56] But I do like that his office walls mostly have cowboy hats hanging on.

[16:00] Yeah.

[16:01] And just imagine, does he wear those or are those just his display hats?

[16:04] You know, that was a touch that I did like.

Stuart Wellington

[16:05] Give a character one thing and have them do it to the nth degree.

Dan McCoy

[16:10] Yeah.

[16:10] Well, again, speaking of goons, two goons named Otis and King are watching The Office

[16:15] outside.

[16:16] King is played by Marshawn Lynch.

[16:18] Yeah.

[16:19] After his star making turn in Bottoms.

[16:21] Yeah.

[16:22] I think he's one of the ones who comes off best in this too.

[16:25] I think so too.

[16:26] He has like a naturalness about him.

[16:29] Like he has, he just like, I don't know how big his range is, but he's got so much charisma

[16:33] and he seems like a real person who wandered into this very fake movie.

Elliott Kalan

[16:36] Yeah.

[16:37] He was the person that my older son was most excited about being in the movie.

[16:40] He didn't watch this with me.

[16:42] But when Love Hurts was coming out, my older son kept saying, Marshawn Lynch is in

[16:45] that movie.

[16:46] He's like one of the best players ever.

[16:48] Marshawn.

[16:48] And I said, well, he goes, what movie are you watching for this episode?

[16:50] Love Hurts.

[16:50] With Marshawn Lynch.

[16:51] So he was very excited that Marshawn Lynch has a movie film career.

[16:54] What's he play?

Stuart Wellington

[16:54] What's he playing?

[16:55] What's his game?

[16:55] Magic?

[16:56] Yeah.

[16:57] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[16:57] He's one of the greatest Magic the Gathering players there ever was.

[16:59] Overwatch.

Stuart Wellington

[17:00] Is he an e-gamer?

[17:01] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[17:02] He's one of the greatest Pinochle players in America right now.

[17:05] Oh, wow.

[17:06] If you look at the rankings.

[17:07] Yeah.

[17:08] Yeah.

[17:08] Cribbage.

[17:09] Yeah.

[17:09] He's a bridge master.

Stuart Wellington

[17:11] Man, fuck.

[17:12] So he's like good at the thing in the newspaper, right?

[17:15] The little bridge puzzle.

[17:16] Yes.

[17:16] He actually writes those.

[17:18] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[17:19] Everyone's favorite part of the paper.

Elliott Kalan

[17:22] I hope it never goes away.

[17:23] That's one of those things like having a court artist instead of a photographer that I love

[17:28] that we still do it.

[17:28] I love the newspaper still gives people as a bridge column.

[17:31] Yeah.

[17:32] Never get rid of that.

[17:33] When being a reporter has been banned by the government and Trump rounds up all the journalists

[17:38] and puts them into camps, I hope that he gives special attention to the bridge columnists

[17:42] and the bridge columnist gets extra rations of crusty bread for all the work people are doing.

Stuart Wellington

[17:47] Or he bans the bridge column and that's what finally sparks the revolution.

[17:51] He pushed too far.

Dan McCoy

[17:54] Well, anyway, March on Lynch is king.

[17:57] Otis, the other one, is upset because he's having trouble with his wife at home.

[18:00] That's sort of a subplot.

Elliott Kalan

[18:02] This is kind of a subplot that's tied to the theme of love, but their conversations are

[18:05] very, very sub-fiction to hitmen having conversations.

Stuart Wellington

[18:09] Yeah.

[18:09] It's like the classic hitmen that are talking about modern psychology.

Dan McCoy

[18:15] They see Marvin leave, so they call to report back to returning Flophouse fave Cam Gijande

[18:21] Yep.

[18:22] Oh, yeah.

[18:23] He's playing Rennie Merlo.

Elliott Kalan

[18:24] We haven't seen him in years at the Flophouse, right?

Dan McCoy

[18:27] No.

[18:27] He's been only making good movies.

[18:29] Yeah.

[18:31] Rennie's in some sort of mob lair.

[18:33] He tells the goons to follow Marvin.

[18:35] Maybe they'll find Rose.

[18:36] And meanwhile, he'll keep Knuckles in the dark.

[18:40] And why is one of Knuckles' own men keeping him in the dark?

[18:44] We'll find out.

[18:45] After this.

[18:46] Hi.

Elliott Kalan

[18:47] Are you worried about the lack of snails in your house?

[18:50] If that's a problem, get Snailbee here.

[18:53] The only snail bait guaranteed to attract the number of snails you want in your house.

[18:58] If it's more than zero.

[19:00] And now, back to our show.

[19:06] Sorry, I talked about this, guys.

Stuart Wellington

[19:07] Is the lack of snails in your home like snails on the chalkboard?

Elliott Kalan

[19:12] Do you lay awake at night missing the sound of quiet sludge creeping across your walls and floors?

[19:21] If so, there's only one product on the market that will do what you want it to.

[19:25] Snailbee here.

[19:27] Don't fall for imitators.

[19:29] Moe Snail does not work.

[19:31] In tests, Moe Snail fails compared to Snailbee here.

Dan McCoy

[19:34] God damn it.

[19:35] I needed that.

[19:36] Anyway.

[19:38] Knuckles wants to find Rose because she knows where some,

[19:41] as yet, I don't explain money that was stolen came from.

[19:44] Rose knows.

[19:45] And Rennie seems upset that Knuckles sent Raven to find her

[19:49] because he wants to find her for his own reasons.

Elliott Kalan

[19:51] Okay.

[19:52] Dan, it sounds like we're in a hilarious and exciting scramble of characters.

Dan McCoy

[19:56] Well, you know what?

[19:57] It should be.

[19:58] And I got to say, all this plotting is clearer with me explaining it than it is in the movie.

[20:03] That is for sure.

[20:03] Even though they do a lot of explaining of things.

[20:06] And also, Knuckles is drinking boba tea, which he loves, which I mentioned because it will become,

[20:14] unlikely as it seems, a plot point later on.

Elliott Kalan

[20:16] Do one thing and do it to the nth degree, like Stuart said.

[20:18] And his thing is boba.

Dan McCoy

[20:20] Yeah.

[20:21] He's a boba nut.

[20:22] Anyway.

[20:24] Knuckles.

[20:26] Boba Fett's cousin.

[20:27] Boba Nut.

[20:28] Yeah, his funny cousin.

[20:33] Knuckles wants to find out why Marvin didn't kill Rose like he was ordered to,

[20:37] so he wants Rose alive, even though when he's like, she stole it from you.

[20:40] You got to kill her.

Stuart Wellington

[20:43] Boba Nut's ship's called the slave fun.

Dan McCoy

[20:51] King Otis.

[20:52] He's the greatest bounty hunter slash party clown in the galaxy.

Stuart Wellington

[20:57] Well, he keeps him around, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[20:59] King Otis.

[21:00] And of course, he captures Fun Solo.

Dan McCoy

[21:02] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[21:03] That's what he does.

[21:05] Fun Solo.

Dan McCoy

[21:06] That's what you're doing when you're gooning.

[21:07] Yeah.

[21:08] Fun Solo.

[21:09] Yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[21:10] Yeah, yeah.

[21:11] That's when you do it without guide wires or whatever.

[21:13] Yeah, when you're masturbating, when you're going through Imperial customs.

[21:17] Do you have a last name?

[21:18] No.

[21:18] Well, who are you masturbating with?

[21:19] No one?

[21:20] Fun Solo.

[21:21] Oh, thank God they explained that.

[21:27] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[21:29] Anyway.

[21:30] We needed to know where the term came from.

[21:32] I guess masturbation can be fun.

[21:34] For me, it's deadly serious, guys.

[21:38] It's a game of cat and mouse between you and your penis.

[21:40] But who's the cat and who's the mouse?

[21:43] We'll find out in the end, I hope.

Dan McCoy

[21:46] Masturbation can be fun.

[21:48] Join the holy orgy.

[21:49] That's hair.

[21:50] Anyway.

[21:51] Oh, I forgot about that.

[21:52] King and Otis catch up to Marvin and his house.

[21:55] And it turns out they're the enforcers who replaced Marvin in the outfit.

[22:01] And they ask where Rose is.

[22:02] And they have a big fight.

[22:03] This is the aforementioned thing where I think there's a little bit of an extra level that I enjoyed where he's trying to protect his Realtor of the Year certificate.

[22:10] And also not hurt them too much.

Elliott Kalan

[22:11] And also not hurt them too much.

[22:12] He's not trying to kill these guys.

[22:14] He's not supposed to.

[22:14] And there's one moment in this that I do like where they close him in a refrigerator, then pick up the refrigerator, and then throw it across the room, and then he falls out of the refrigerator.

[22:22] And I'm like, okay, that's something I haven't seen a character in a refrigerator get thrown around since the Crystal Skull.

Stuart Wellington

[22:28] I mean, and it helps that Ki Hoi Kwan is like not a huge dude so they can take advantage of this.

Elliott Kalan

[22:34] Well, I think that's the thing I think they start doing and they don't really take enough advantage of is the fact that it feels like the joke of the movie or the exciting thing about the movie is that he does not look – I mean the same with like nobody, right?

[22:44] He's not a guy who looks like he would be a super tough fighter who can win these fights just because he's a smaller guy.

[22:49] And so having – the fun of it would be having him surprise the other people with what he's so good at or showing that he's amazing at it.

[22:57] And I feel like they – it's so kind of – everything's kind of handled in such a de rigueur kind of like fashion that they never really get that point when you're like, oh, shit, I didn't expect this little guy to be such an amazing fighter.

Dan McCoy

[23:10] But he's astounded, you know?

[23:12] Yeah, there's a little bit of that.

[23:13] Like Marshawn Lynch has like a little like what?

[23:16] Like moment but it's not enough.

Elliott Kalan

[23:18] I no longer enjoy Frank Miller's Sin City comics the same one that I once did but it's kind of like the moment in that first Sin City story where Marv finds the guy Elijah Wood plays in the movie that like kind of like the killer who just looks like a little guy and that guy immediately turns out to be super fast and have like razor sharp nails.

Dan McCoy

[23:37] And you're like, oh, this is going to be a lot more difficult than we thought.

Elliott Kalan

[23:40] Like that's the moment you want in this.

[23:41] It feels like they don't really have it.

[23:44] Mainly maybe because he's – I don't know.

[23:46] Even though they're building him up as like he's just an ordinary guy who loves – he's a nerd who loves his job.

[23:51] Like it never quite – you know the other shoe is going to drop.

[23:54] It never feels like him.

[23:54] And they don't give enough setup to that.

Stuart Wellington

[23:56] Like the rush to the first fight is so quick that like you don't really get enough of this character to actually give a shit about him.

[24:03] Yes.

[24:04] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[24:05] I feel like a history of violence does a better job of this kind of reveal.

[24:09] Oh, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[24:09] The great movie?

[24:11] The great movie history of violence?

[24:12] The great movie that a great director made?

[24:13] Yeah, yeah.

[24:13] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[24:15] I guess what I'm saying is Love Hurts doesn't stand up to David Cronenberg's work.

[24:18] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[24:20] Although Love Hurts is actually – would be a good title of David Cronenberg's like so many of David Cronenberg's movies.

Elliott Kalan

[24:27] If you did a retrospective of his movies, Love Hurts would be a great – yeah, would be a great title for it.

[24:31] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[24:32] Anyway, he escapes.

[24:33] But before he can drive away, he's tased by Rose.

[24:37] As we mentioned before, played by Ariana DeBose.

[24:39] And I want to say I've liked her before, especially in West Side Story.

[24:44] I think she is downright bad here, but I don't think it's necessarily her fault.

[24:49] Like this is like such a poorly written character, like such an off-the-shelf, like chaotic force character.

[24:58] Yeah.

[24:58] And like the director doesn't seem to know what to do with her.

[25:01] Like it just – it's a problem, especially because the fact that they're supposedly in love is the plot driver in a lot of ways.

[25:09] Yeah.

[25:09] And I don't buy it.

Stuart Wellington

[25:10] Yeah, the fact that there's a, what, 20-year age gap and they have like negative chemistry on screen and they never – they almost never touch on screen.

[25:21] And it seems like they are in different movies.

[25:24] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[25:24] I think it is a – she is – she definitely does not have much of a character to play.

[25:28] To borrow our friend Nathan's, you know, old phrase, she's a – and twist it like she's a manic pixie assassin girl, you know.

[25:36] And the –

Stuart Wellington

[25:38] She does have a rose tattoo on her arm.

[25:42] Not the band Rose Tattoo.

[25:43] No, no.

[25:43] Because that would be hard to have in –

[25:44] Not the Tennessee Williams play, the Rose Tattoo, yeah.

[25:47] Or the band featuring Angry Anderson who was in Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome.

Elliott Kalan

[25:52] It does really hurt and not in a fun love hurts way.

[25:55] It does really hurt that they have very little chemistry and we're supposed to believe they have a history.

[25:59] And if those two characters weren't supposed to have a history together, I think this movie would work slightly better if it is like, who are you and why are you doing this?

[26:07] And they're discovering each other through the process.

[26:08] Yeah, why are you an agent of chaos in my life?

Stuart Wellington

[26:11] Yes.

[26:11] Like in a – what is the – what was the – life less ordinary sort of way.

[26:16] Well, or any number of screwball comedies.

[26:17] Or something wild or something like that.

Elliott Kalan

[26:19] Or bringing up Bobby and, you know, that's a –

[26:22] Bringing up –

[26:23] How is Bobby formed?

[26:25] Yeah, bringing up Baba Yaga.

[26:27] That's the one where the Baba Yaga gets into Cary Grant's life and throws it at a whack.

[26:33] The – where's that –

[26:35] Crazy chicken foot.

[26:38] Where's that dinosaur bone I'm looking for?

[26:40] It's in my mortar and pestle.

[26:41] And she flies away.

[26:43] But the –

[26:44] Ariana DeBose does have one moment here that I like where she tases Marvin and she tases somebody else.

[26:51] And for whatever reason, there's two kids sitting on a swing set watching her.

[26:54] And she does like a little flourish bow to them.

[26:56] Yeah.

[26:56] Because they enjoyed seeing her tase those guys.

[26:58] And I like that split second.

[26:59] That bow I really like.

Dan McCoy

[27:02] Meanwhile, back at the office, Ashley finds the unconscious raven, reads some of his poetry,

[27:08] is immediately smitten with him on the basis of this terrible poetry.

[27:14] King calls Rennie and is like –

Elliott Kalan

[27:17] Wait, I have one more thing to say.

[27:18] His poetry is not bad enough to be funny.

[27:21] That's another missed opportunity.

[27:22] No, it's just realistically bad.

[27:24] Yeah, it's realistically –

[27:25] It should be really hilariously bad.

[27:27] And then it's equally funny if they fall in love with him, you know.

[27:30] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[27:33] King is like, hey, this realtor is like, nobody Baba Yaga.

[27:37] I'm out.

[27:38] And Rennie is like, hey, if Knuckles finds Rose, she's going to talk.

[27:42] She'll reveal it was Rennie and someone named Kippy who we haven't met yet who actually stole from him.

[27:47] So they have to keep at it.

[27:50] And he's like, I'll find Rose myself.

[27:52] You goons, go find Kippy.

[27:54] And seize the other loose end.

Elliott Kalan

[27:58] This is another issue with this movie is for a movie where the plot is both super simple and hard to figure out, there's a lot of characters telling each other what to do and what they're going to do next.

[28:07] And it's like, we just have the characters doing this.

[28:09] Like we don't see so many times that Cam Gajanet is giving orders to other people, you know.

Dan McCoy

[28:13] It is baffling to me that like – I watched this movie and then I just like – because it was so short, I just watched it straight to like watch it.

[28:20] And then I went back and skimmed over it to take my notes.

[28:23] And so much more was clear the second time around obviously.

Elliott Kalan

[28:27] I mean that's good.

[28:28] That's like a Gene Wolfe novel.

[28:29] It's made to be rewatched, not watched.

[28:31] That's good work.

Dan McCoy

[28:32] Yeah.

[28:32] But I was just confused watching it because I'm like this plot is so – essentially so simple.

[28:38] Why didn't it make any sense to me the first time around?

[28:41] It was just like a cavalcade of drunk happening.

[28:43] Were you on edibles or something or –

[28:44] What?

[28:45] Were you on edibles or something?

Elliott Kalan

[28:47] No, I haven't had pot in months and months.

[28:50] It would be a real – it would be a real dereliction of duty, Dan, if you were on edibles when you were watching the movie while doing the summary.

[28:55] I would probably court-martial you and drum you out and tear your flophouse patches off.

[28:59] Yeah, yeah.

[29:00] Oh, wow.

[29:01] Yeah.

[29:01] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[29:01] I will not tell Elliot about my choices then.

Elliott Kalan

[29:05] Hey, Stu, as long as the summary comes through, that's okay.

[29:08] But if Dan's like, I have trouble following this, maybe it's because I was intoxicated at the time.

Dan McCoy

[29:12] Well, I wasn't.

[29:13] Marvin wakes up somewhere in a sweater with hearts all over it.

[29:18] Hilarious, right, guys?

[29:19] Ashley is leaving him a voicemail about the unconscious assassin in his office and reads a poem in a loving voice and quits their job.

[29:28] And then the raven wakes up and those two characters start connecting.

[29:31] Yeah.

[29:32] That's great.

[29:33] Marvin has some voiceover about liking Rose and vice versa because the movie doesn't have time to do the job of –

[29:39] He likes the movie Vice Versa?

Elliott Kalan

[29:41] Yes.

[29:41] He loves Vice Versa.

[29:43] He's like, I love Rose, but almost as much as I love Vice Versa.

Dan McCoy

[29:47] Yeah.

[29:48] A crystal skull.

[29:50] Or wait, a golden skull?

[29:51] Vice Versa is –

Elliott Kalan

[29:52] That's the Judge Reinhold one, right?

[29:54] Yeah, that's the Judge Reinhold one.

[29:55] Like Father Like Son is the Dudley Moore one?

Dan McCoy

[29:57] Yes, with Kirk Cameron.

[29:59] Okay.

[30:00] And 18 again is the George Burns one?

[30:04] Yes.

[30:04] And in Dream a Little Dream, Jason Robards is actually in a coma or something the whole time.

[30:10] He's dreaming.

[30:11] Oh, okay.

[30:12] But Corey Feldman is –

[30:14] Or Haym.

[30:14] He's Corey Haym, yeah.

[30:15] And then Feldman is a supporting character.

Elliott Kalan

[30:17] And Freaky Friday is the Jamie Lee Curtis one and there's another one of that coming out.

[30:21] Okay.

[30:22] Uh-huh.

Dan McCoy

[30:23] You get another Friday or whatever it is.

Stuart Wellington

[30:25] What's the Piss in a Fountain one?

[30:27] That's the switch up.

[30:28] The switch up.

[30:29] Is it the change up or the switch up?

Dan McCoy

[30:32] The switch.

[30:32] The chase.

[30:34] Yeah.

[30:34] The chase with Christy Squanson and Charlie Sheen when they switch places.

[30:38] Yeah.

[30:39] Uh-huh.

[30:40] Oh.

[30:41] So those are all body swap movies.

[30:43] We also did Freaky with our friend Barbara Crampton on the show.

[30:46] Yep.

Elliott Kalan

[30:46] That's true.

[30:47] And Dr. Jekyll and Mrs. Hyde is the one with Sean Young, right?

[30:50] Yeah.

[30:50] And Tim Daly.

[30:51] Okay.

[30:53] Tyne Daly?

[30:54] Yeah.

[30:54] Tyne Daly with who?

[30:56] A tiny Daly.

Dan McCoy

[30:57] Um, where was I?

[30:59] I want to notice.

Elliott Kalan

[31:00] See, Tyne Daly is getting a little smaller.

[31:03] Tyne Daly in theaters this song.

Dan McCoy

[31:04] Hold me closer.

[31:06] Tyne Daly.

[31:07] You see that Daly?

[31:08] Boy, that's huge.

Elliott Kalan

[31:11] No, it would be Tyne Daly saying this.

[31:13] Oh, boy.

Stuart Wellington

[31:14] No, that's Tiny Elvis next to Tiny.

Elliott Kalan

[31:15] Oh, Tiny Elvis is even tinier than Tiny Daly, I see.

[31:17] Yeah.

[31:17] Or Tyne Daly.

[31:18] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[31:19] Yeah.

[31:19] I have it all mapped out in this show.

[31:21] Oh, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[31:22] That's a lot of yarn between those pictures of Tyne Daly and Tiny Elvis.

[31:26] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[31:26] Um.

Dan McCoy

[31:27] We've got a lot to say about love hurts, don't we?

[31:29] Rose explains she's back from the fake dead because she wants to get their lives back.

[31:33] She takes them on a joyride trying to get the old killer to come out.

Elliott Kalan

[31:38] She says, hello, you fool.

[31:39] I love you.

[31:39] Want to go on a joyride.

Dan McCoy

[31:41] Yeah, yeah.

[31:41] Rocks up.

[31:42] The Raven and Ashley continue to fall in love.

[31:45] Marvin takes Rose to one of his unsold properties as a safe house, and they argue about getting

[31:51] their lives back.

[31:52] And, you know, this is where they're supposed to be reconnecting, but again, it doesn't really

[31:54] happen.

[31:56] Rennie Cam Gijande breaks into our apartment and shoots someone, but it's just a decoy mannequin

[32:04] that Rose has left with a message for him saying that she has Kippy along with a bunch of incriminating

[32:10] financial info.

Elliott Kalan

[32:11] This was the point where I was like, it says, I've got Kippy on the side.

[32:14] And I was like, am I supposed to know who Kippy is already?

Dan McCoy

[32:18] Definitely.

[32:18] You meet him right now.

[32:20] Yeah.

[32:20] You meet him right now.

[32:21] He's in Rose's trunk.

[32:23] It's played by Reese Darby.

[32:25] Yeah.

[32:25] Possibly the only Reese Darby performance that never made me laugh.

[32:28] Yeah.

[32:29] I love Reese Darby.

Elliott Kalan

[32:30] I love Reese Darby.

[32:31] And yeah, this is, it's not a, it's, I mean, they don't give him much to do.

[32:33] They don't give him enough to do.

Stuart Wellington

[32:35] They do give him some fake teeth.

Dan McCoy

[32:36] They do give him fake teeth.

[32:37] That's the worst part.

[32:37] I think that's what, I think honestly, that is the fatal mistake that makes me not laugh

[32:43] at any of it.

[32:44] Cause like she like pulls like his front teeth off, his fake front teeth off when, uh, when

[32:49] like removing the duct tape that she had in his mouth.

[32:51] And so then he's got these false, like gross, uh, broken teeth the whole time and supposed

[32:58] to be funny, but it just makes everything off putting.

[33:01] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[33:02] And it's, it's weird because it's like, no, you have a very talented comedic performer.

[33:06] Just let him make it funny.

[33:08] Yes.

Dan McCoy

[33:08] Um, Rose threatens Kippy with a taser and we get the backstory, uh, which is that Rose

[33:15] helps Rennie steal 4 million from Knuckles.

[33:19] And then Rennie put 2 million in the truck of Rose's car for Knuckles to fine.

[33:24] So Rennie could take Rose's place in the organization while Kippy cooked the books so they could keep

[33:30] the remaining $2 million undetected.

[33:33] So everyone has that now.

[33:35] Yeah.

[33:35] Uh, all of the pieces are in place.

[33:38] Fine.

[33:38] Uh, there's a flashback to Rose of the quarry with Marvin where he was supposed to kill

[33:44] her, but he tells her to run instead.

Elliott Kalan

[33:45] I will say the first time we see the two of them together, they are dressed so differently

[33:50] from what we're used to.

[33:51] And Marvin, when he was a monster hit man has a mustache and wears kind of like a blue suit.

[33:56] And he looks like, he looks like he's a character in a leisure suit Larry video game.

[34:01] Like it's like, I love it.

[34:03] I kind of love it.

Stuart Wellington

[34:03] Yeah.

[34:04] I was suddenly, but I was suddenly like.

[34:05] Her fit, her like all white suit also.

Elliott Kalan

[34:07] But it feels so, like this whole movie is not realistic.

[34:11] But then they, the characters seem so cartoonish at that moment compared to before when they're

[34:15] at least wearing regular, you know, everyday clothes that I was like, what, hold on a second.

[34:19] Wait.

[34:19] So were they characters in guys and dolls for a moment?

[34:21] And then they came back to reality?

[34:23] Like, what is this?

Stuart Wellington

[34:23] It's so weird because it's like, like he's doing what he wants to do as a realtor.

[34:29] Yes.

[34:29] And it's just weird to me that it's like, so was he spending a lot of time wearing these

[34:34] like fancy bad guy outfits?

[34:36] Like, was that a rule?

[34:38] Like, did he, did he not have to do that?

[34:39] It doesn't seem like it's conducive to him being a battle boy.

[34:42] But Knuckles was like, I need you to dress like one of the weasels in Roger Rabbit if

[34:45] you're going to do the job.

[34:47] Like, he should have been like Danny the dog or something from that Jet Li movie.

[34:51] Like, he should have been.

Elliott Kalan

[34:52] Yeah, the whole time it feels like they're trying to make him that character, basically.

[34:56] The character like, this is, I crafted you into the ultimate killer and then I let you

[34:59] off your leash, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[35:01] It at least would make sense if they're like, he threw himself into being a killer because

[35:07] he was somebody who just needed direction because that's kind of what he has done as a realtor.

[35:14] That he is like taking a job and just pursued it.

[35:18] And that that's why he was a killer.

[35:20] And then like he had a change of heart.

[35:22] But I don't know.

[35:22] It doesn't matter.

Elliott Kalan

[35:23] No, well, this movie is that part of the problem with this movie is it's at cross purposes

[35:26] with itself.

[35:27] Because he really, I feel like he does communicate that he likes being a realtor.

[35:33] He loves this job.

[35:34] He's enjoying his life for real.

[35:35] And you have Rose come in and say, you're lying to yourself.

[35:38] You're hiding.

[35:39] This isn't who you really are.

[35:40] Yes.

[35:40] And the movie wants him to be revealed as no, he is a, he does have a killer inside of

[35:45] him and he needs to bring it out.

[35:46] That is who he is.

[35:47] But that's not the performance that Juan is giving.

[35:49] Juan is giving like a better performance of no, he is a realtor at heart and he wants

[35:54] to do that.

[35:54] And also, you know what movie?

[35:56] The message should be, yes, it is better to be a realtor than to be a merciless killer.

[36:00] I don't care which one looks cooler on screen.

[36:03] We want to live in a world of realtors, not in a world of assassins.

Stuart Wellington

[36:06] It certainly would have made more sense if he was like an assassin at heart who's just

[36:10] trying to play at being a realtor and he was bad at it.

[36:13] Yes.

[36:14] That would have been, at least that would have been a choice that would have maybe been

[36:17] funny and tied in with the rest of the movie as opposed to the choice they went with.

Elliott Kalan

[36:21] Or the idea that we're, I mean, once you have a character who likes his life and Rose

[36:26] comes in and is throwing that out because she wants to be him to be someone different,

[36:31] is throwing that off.

[36:31] Her character has to be so charismatic that you're like, that you're as tempted as he

[36:36] is.

[36:37] Whereas here, I kept thinking about the movie.

[36:38] I'm like, just go away.

[36:39] Like he had a good life and you're wrecking it, but you're not bringing anything in addition.

[36:44] Yeah.

[36:44] And like, you're just a bad influence all the way through.

[36:46] And maybe if that's the movie you're telling, then make her really bad.

[36:49] Make her a bad guy, you know?

Dan McCoy

[36:50] Yeah.

[36:50] I don't feel like he's going to be more self-actualized if he goes back to like murdering people.

[36:55] No.

Elliott Kalan

[36:55] I mean, there's another version of this movie, which is not necessarily better, where

[36:59] he loses regional realtor of the year.

[37:01] And his boss is like, sorry, man, I know you want this job, but you just don't have the

[37:05] killer instinct.

[37:05] And then through becoming an assassin again, that intensity comes back and then suddenly

[37:10] he's the best realtor in the world.

[37:11] Yeah.

[37:11] You know, that's the arc that he's on and this adventure helps him.

[37:15] Whereas here, it's like, he's like, I love my life.

[37:17] Ugh, all this stuff came in.

[37:19] I do love my life.

[37:20] And I will continue to be a realtor.

[37:22] It's like, why the hell did I just see you go through all this?

[37:24] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[37:26] So we see that Quarry flashback.

[37:28] He tells her to run.

[37:29] Quarry flashback?

Elliott Kalan

[37:30] Was it Quarry Feldman or Quarry Haim?

[37:31] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[37:32] Quarry flashback.

[37:33] Quarry.

[37:34] Okay.

[37:34] Quarry Feldman.

[37:36] Mm-hmm.

[37:36] Quarry's back in the present.

[37:37] Rose is weirdly angry about, why did you volunteer to kill me?

[37:40] When it is pretty clear that it was to protect her because if anyone else took that job, they

[37:45] would have just killed her.

[37:46] Uh-huh.

[37:46] But Marvin has to explain it anyway.

[37:49] So the dumbest in the audience understand, I guess.

[37:52] Yeah.

[37:53] Um, so back at that, back at Marvin's actual house, Cliff shows up to pick up the car and

[38:00] he finds Knuckles and some of his muscle.

[38:03] And they have this conversation where Knuckles is obviously like menacing and angry that Cliff

[38:07] has become Marvin's surrogate brother rather than him, the real brother.

[38:12] And he reveals Marvin's dark past and Cliff is so nice and forgiving that you know Sean

[38:17] Astin's gonna get killed.

[38:18] Yeah.

[38:18] And he does get killed by Knuckles stabbing a boba straw into his eye and blood dribbles

[38:23] out and it's way too gruesome for the tone of this movie.

[38:26] Like, this is like the nicest guy who gets killed in this awful joke way.

Elliott Kalan

[38:31] My guess is this movie was originally probably a lot gorier.

[38:35] Could be.

[38:36] And they kept that in because I guess it's neat looking or funny that the blood pours out

[38:42] through the straw, you know?

[38:43] Yeah.

[38:43] But, but I guess is this was a much bloodier movie and then they cut it back at some point.

[38:47] That's because the, the fight scenes feel otherwise so bloodless, even though people are getting

[38:50] slashed with blades and like, you know, getting the shit kicked out of them.

[38:55] So, I don't know.

[38:57] It does feel like there's a, that like Sean Astin's character, I guess it makes me not

[39:02] like the movie that Sean Astin's character is so sweet and then gets killed.

[39:05] And it's supposed to be like, no, this Knuckles guy.

[39:08] Now I really want him dead, but he was already a bad guy.

[39:10] We already don't like him.

[39:12] And I feel like there's a, there's another version of this movie where Sean Astin's character

[39:15] is a little sleazy.

[39:16] Like maybe he's, he's using Marvin a little bit.

Dan McCoy

[39:20] Like the guy from Die Hard?

Elliott Kalan

[39:21] Yeah.

[39:22] Yeah.

[39:22] So when he gets killed, it's like, uh-oh, but also not, you don't feel heartbroken.

[39:27] You know?

[39:27] Yeah.

[39:27] The movie can't, the movie can't carry Sean Astin's, Shane Astin's death in this.

[39:31] You know?

Dan McCoy

[39:31] No, no, not at all.

[39:32] Marvin threatens Kippy, but is interrupted by people coming to see the house.

[39:36] And Rose is like, don't open that door.

[39:39] And Marvin says, I like my life now, but I am like, you don't, you can still try and keep

[39:44] your life as a realtor and not open the door right now while you're holding this guy hostage

[39:49] and there's a criminal thing going on.

[39:50] And like in a better movie, this would be a great, like kind of a fun scene of like,

[39:54] oh, like we have this farcical thing where he has to show the house while the subject is

[39:58] going on, but you have to make that inevitable.

[40:00] You can't just have him be like, uh, no, I'm going to show the house for no reason.

Elliott Kalan

[40:05] The whole movie, he should be like, I got to, I have this appointment coming up to show

[40:08] this house.

[40:09] Yeah.

[40:09] And so I've got to get to that appointment.

[40:11] Like that's, that should be his drive to get out of fight scenes.

[40:14] It's like, I can't be all beat to crap because I have to show this house.

[40:17] Because what it feels like also is this couple showed up randomly at a model house,

[40:22] hoping that the realtor would be there that day to show them around.

[40:26] And it's like, that's not how realty works.

[40:29] Like a realtor doesn't just live at a model house waiting for his clients to show up.

[40:33] Like they would have an appointment.

Stuart Wellington

[40:34] Do you think this would have worked better if he hadn't won what regional realtor of the

[40:39] year at the start, but instead he knew that they were like judging by the end of the movie.

[40:45] So he was like, okay, so I have to show this house because I need to win this award.

[40:49] Maybe.

Elliott Kalan

[40:50] I think so.

[40:50] He has, I think if he, he's his whole drive, the whole time should be, I got to win this

[40:56] award.

[40:57] Like, I can't let this get in the way of winning this award.

[40:59] And the joke there then is like, your, your life is in danger.

[41:01] Why do you care so much of this?

[41:02] And then at the end of the movie, he went, they've judged him.

[41:04] And they're like, you were able to protect your clients' lives.

[41:08] You know, you won.

[41:08] And he goes and accepts the award and he's all beat up and he's bloody all over.

[41:12] And he's giving a speech holding this certificate.

[41:14] It means so much to him, but he looks half dead.

[41:16] Like that would be such a funny.

[41:17] That's better.

[41:18] That's better.

Dan McCoy

[41:19] Yeah.

[41:19] We fixed it.

[41:20] We fixed it.

[41:20] Love doesn't hurt anymore.

[41:21] Love fixed.

[41:22] The couple comes in to see the house.

[41:24] Marvin calls Ashley for the closing paperwork, but they're like, didn't you get the message?

[41:28] I quit.

[41:28] But Marvin convinces them to come to the house, which means the Raven also knows who Marvin is.

[41:33] But Ashley, because they've fallen in love, convinces the Raven not to kill Marvin, but take him in on harm.

[41:40] He'll kill Marvin.

[41:42] Nevermore.

[41:43] Oh, damn.

[41:45] Kippy escapes and calls.

[41:46] Did you get that?

Dan McCoy

[41:46] Because that's from the poem?

[41:47] Yeah, it's from the Poe.

[41:49] Yeah, the Conqueror Worm.

[41:50] M.

[41:53] Anyway.

[41:54] Poe M is what I said.

[41:56] Kippy escapes.

[41:57] Yeah, we got it, Dan.

Elliott Kalan

[41:58] We got it.

[42:00] Did you hear me laughing?

[42:01] It's not because I didn't get it.

Dan McCoy

[42:03] Did you hear me laughing?

[42:05] At your front door, baby.

[42:08] Kippy escapes and calls.

Elliott Kalan

[42:09] Laugh, laugh, laughing at heaven's door.

Dan McCoy

[42:12] Oh, yeah.

[42:13] That's great.

[42:14] I'm so tired.

Elliott Kalan

[42:16] Laugh to my window.

[42:18] Or whatever the song, the most average song is.

Dan McCoy

[42:20] That's a great laugh medley.

[42:22] Kippy escapes and calls, Rennie.

[42:24] Oh, no.

[42:25] If the movie were better, things would be cooking now.

[42:29] Rose calls, Rennie.

[42:30] References telling the Russians.

[42:32] Who are these Russians?

[42:33] We'll find out about the impregnation.

[42:34] Bad guy from Punisher, yeah.

[42:36] The incriminating info she left him to find.

[42:39] And Rennie's like, if you want your money, come to the mob headquarters.

[42:41] So she drives off leaving a valentine for Marvin that says, hiding ain't living, which is kind of a repeated mantra in the movie.

Elliott Kalan

[42:49] Also, I would say for many people in difficult situations, hiding is living.

[42:53] Hiding is what keeps them alive.

[42:55] So I take it.

[42:56] It feels real entitled, this message.

Dan McCoy

[43:00] Raven and Ashley show up at the house.

[43:02] There's a nonviolent standoff, which is interrupted with a violent standoff when Otis and King also show up and shoot up the place.

[43:08] Which I would say is so Raven.

[43:11] That is so Raven.

[43:12] That is so Raven.

[43:13] Yeah.

[43:13] Here's Otis and King.

Stuart Wellington

[43:14] I did like one bit here when the two thugs are there and they're about to fight.

[43:21] And they go and pull the novelty, decorative, massive silverware off the wall to use as weapons.

Elliott Kalan

[43:28] I thought that was pretty fun.

[43:29] That was fun.

[43:30] They do the thing here that haven't slot in action movies where two guys show up with automatic weapons and consistently shoot above everybody in the room.

[43:38] And it's like just lower a little bit.

[43:39] There's a part where – I thought this was so funny.

[43:42] Not on purpose, but where one of the characters is – it's like he's being shot at and then you see a shot of him just hiding behind something.

[43:52] And then the shot of the guy shooting the guns at that place and it's like – so he stopped shooting for a second so that the guy could – so that our hero could go hide somewhere.

[44:00] The editing tries to hide the fact that he should be dead right now.

[44:04] I feel like – I guess what I'm saying is they haven't really built up the threat of King and Otis.

[44:09] They seem to be consistently not good at their job.

Stuart Wellington

[44:12] Yes.

[44:13] But –

[44:14] They raised the stakes here in a second.

[44:16] Well, they do.

Elliott Kalan

[44:17] Maybe it's partly also because I will say if I'm an assassin and I'm trying to kill somebody, I would try to shoot them before I just shoot out a bunch of windows and then pick up the person and throw them across the room.

Stuart Wellington

[44:27] There's a lot of throws.

[44:29] Yeah, yeah.

[44:29] If I was an assassin, I would just shoot them with a sniper rifle, but maybe I'm just built different.

Dan McCoy

[44:35] If I were an assassin, I'd be better at killing.

Elliott Kalan

[44:37] I just always wonder in movies when you have it like an Uzi or something, why you don't just spray all over the place so you're bound to hit him at some point as opposed to shooting in one direction the entire time and letting the person hide behind something.

[44:49] Or there's a later – it's one of those things where someone has a pump-action shotgun and someone else is hiding behind a rack of videos or something.

[44:55] And instead of going around the corner and then firing the gun, he's just walking while firing a pump-action shotgun at nothing.

[45:02] You know?

[45:03] And it's like, dude, you know you're not hitting anybody.

Stuart Wellington

[45:04] You get all worked up, Elliot.

[45:06] I mean you start racking that thing and you're like, hell yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[45:09] But it's like if you can't see them, you're not going to hit them with your gun.

[45:12] You know, the bullet's not going to – a shotgun bullet's not going to ricochet off something and hit somebody.

Stuart Wellington

[45:17] Yeah, but you might like pin them in place and then allow you to do a flanking maneuver, right, Dan?

[45:21] I guess so.

[45:23] Let me get back to the summary.

Dan McCoy

[45:25] The karate realtor –

Elliott Kalan

[45:26] I'll give more assassin advice later in the show in my regular Kalen's Killer Corner.

[45:30] More like dead vice.

Dan McCoy

[45:33] More like dad vice.

[45:35] The karate realtor I mentioned way back at the beginning is showing a house nearby.

[45:39] He sees what's going on.

[45:40] He jumps in to help Marvin because he's an overconfident karate black belt.

[45:44] And honestly, he's really fun and goofy.

[45:46] So, of course, he gets shot through the head and there's a big hole in his head.

Elliott Kalan

[45:50] They do a classic hard-boiled shot, hard-boiled Jeff Darrow type shot.

Dan McCoy

[45:55] Another likable character getting too gruesomely killed for my taste in this movie.

[45:59] And if it was like a dark comedy, like if it was really like leaning into that, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

[46:04] But the tone is way wrong.

[46:08] But –

Elliott Kalan

[46:09] It also is too bad because he, in those moments, is the funniest character in the movie.

Dan McCoy

[46:14] Yeah, he's really like –

[46:15] Marvin and Raven fight off the goons while Marvin still tries to close the sale.

[46:19] And there's this scene where Marvin tells a couple, stay here until I come and find you.

[46:23] And they're never revisited, which makes me wonder if there was like a post-credit scene

[46:27] where they're still like waiting in the house that just got cut or something.

Elliott Kalan

[46:30] That's possible because they do just disappear.

[46:32] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[46:32] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[46:33] Or even just a scene.

[46:35] I mean, there might have been a wrap-up scene with those characters that was cut, you know.

Dan McCoy

[46:39] But they win their fight.

[46:41] Ashley stops Marvin from killing the Raven, reminding him that he was once a killer too

[46:46] and that everyone can change.

[46:47] And somehow that's what sends him after Rose.

[46:50] Even Rose is the one – even though Rose is the one who doesn't want him to change.

[46:54] So I don't understand that.

Elliott Kalan

[46:56] I wonder if he feels like maybe I can have it all.

[46:58] Maybe I can be a realtor and be in love with this Harley Quinn-esque, you know, chaos assassin.

[47:04] And you know Harley Quinn.

[47:05] I know.

[47:05] If anything, Harley Quinn under my guidance has reached a level of maturity that Raven does not have yet.

[47:10] Yeah.

[47:10] Or not Raven.

[47:11] That Rose does not have yet.

[47:15] Speaking of Rose.

[47:16] Raven's a better name for that character.

[47:18] I'm sorry.

[47:18] Rose should be called Raven.

[47:19] Raven should be called Wordsworth.

Dan McCoy

[47:21] Like they should have different names.

[47:22] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[47:24] Rose tries to get her money from Rennie, but he's had the truth beaten from him by knuckles and goons surround her.

[47:31] Marvin shows up and Rose is like, I need all of you.

[47:34] So Marvin crushes his glasses to Hulk out.

[47:36] But again, not really different from the rest of the movie.

[47:39] No.

Elliott Kalan

[47:39] Well, what's different here is it's set to my first, my last, my everything.

[47:43] In the same way as they did in Argyle where I'm like, shut up.

[47:47] Stop doing this.

[47:48] I'm tired of it.

[47:49] No more ironic songs to bloody fight scenes.

[47:51] No, thank you.

[47:52] We've seen it.

Dan McCoy

[47:53] Yeah.

[47:54] They beat up the goons.

[47:56] What if she said, I need all of you?

Elliott Kalan

[47:58] And then he fought while singing all of me.

[48:01] Why not take, why not kill all of me?

Dan McCoy

[48:04] Yeah, that'd be better.

[48:05] Yeah.

[48:06] Rose kills Rennie.

[48:07] There's a big fight between knuckles and Marvin where Marvin just barely wins and tries to walk away.

[48:12] But knuckles comes after him with a bat and Rose shoots him in the shoulder and turns him over to the Russian mob,

[48:17] whose money it was really the whole time, less her finder's fee.

[48:22] Everything's wrapped up.

[48:23] Did it bother you guys?

[48:24] Except for.

Elliott Kalan

[48:24] They do the thing, I think they do in the John Wick movies, right?

[48:26] When there's a subtitle.

[48:27] When it's subtitling a foreign language, instead of having it along the bottom, it's like in big letters on the screen.

[48:33] That bother me?

[48:35] Yeah.

[48:35] I mean, I don't mind it.

Dan McCoy

[48:36] Why would it bother me?

Elliott Kalan

[48:37] I don't know, because it bothers me and I'm trying to figure out why, you know?

[48:39] Oh, okay.

[48:40] Yeah, no, I think it's okay.

[48:42] It's a style choice that does work, but I don't.

[48:44] If it's just me being a stickler, that's okay.

Dan McCoy

[48:48] There's a brief Valentine's Day montage to tie everything up.

Elliott Kalan

[48:53] Guys, did the ghost of Gary Marshall make this movie in one of the ends?

Dan McCoy

[48:56] Yeah, it feels like it.

[48:58] Ashley and the Raven are together.

[49:00] King and Otis, who got sliced up.

Stuart Wellington

[49:01] You know that Gary Marshall got a start as a fight choreographer, right?

[49:06] Yeah, he did.

[49:07] That's true.

[49:07] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[49:07] He choreographed the fights on Happy Days.

[49:09] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[49:10] King and Otis, who got sliced up so much, I presumed they were dead before, lie on the floor.

[49:16] They should be dead.

Elliott Kalan

[49:16] Like, he's literally slicing their bellies and stuff and cutting their hamstrings.

[49:20] Like, they should have bled out.

[49:21] They should be dead.

Dan McCoy

[49:23] But no, they were too likable to die.

[49:25] Otis' wife texts him to reconcile.

Elliott Kalan

[49:27] Only the most likable characters in the movie get gory on-screen deaths.

Dan McCoy

[49:31] Yeah.

[49:33] Marvin pulls his shades down and looks at Rose while she's tending bar with a voiceover saying,

[49:38] as much as love hurts, it's totally worth it.

[49:41] And then credits roll.

[49:42] And it just feels like such an anti-climax.

[49:45] No, it isn't.

Elliott Kalan

[49:46] I didn't know how to end this thing.

[49:47] Didn't know how to end it.

[49:48] Or there was an ending and they changed it and cut it.

[49:50] Maybe it was a reshot ending.

[49:51] I forgot entirely this strip bar she's in that points up the double standard.

[49:56] It's like a roadhouse, yeah.

[49:57] Yeah, but it points up the double standard of American society that we can see a bloody hole through the head of a recently murdered likable character.

[50:05] But the strippers have to be wearing full butt-covering panties and bras and just walk around slowly in their underpants, you know?

[50:14] Yes.

[50:16] I guess what I'm saying, Dan, is I like to see the human body celebrated rather than mangled.

[50:21] Yeah.

[50:21] Oh, wow.

[50:22] That's cool.

[50:23] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[50:24] I do not recommend the Final Destination franchise.

[50:27] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[50:29] I go there with my wife.

[50:31] I've heard it's a real celebration of the human body.

[50:36] So love hurts.

[50:37] Is it time for final judgments, Dan?

Dan McCoy

[50:39] It is time for final judgments.

[50:41] Whether it's a good bad movie, a bad bad movie, or a movie you kind of liked.

[50:47] I'll say this is a bad bad movie.

[50:50] I do enjoy seeing Ki Hui Kwan.

[50:56] He's good in it as much as you could make this work.

[51:00] There's some, like, small sporting roles I enjoy.

Elliott Kalan

[51:03] He has such a natural, likable charisma that makes you wish that he did not have that time in his career when he could not find the right roles for him.

[51:11] Or when Hollywood was not offering him roles.

[51:13] And, like, it makes you wish that, yeah, that he was in a much better vehicle for his charisma than this.

[51:18] Because he's a very charismatic performer.

Dan McCoy

[51:21] But it's, you know, it's obviously been cut to hell.

[51:25] And it just doesn't work.

[51:28] I think that some of the fixes that we've proposed would make it at least passable.

[51:32] But they didn't get our notes in time.

[51:35] They're getting them now.

[51:37] Well after the release.

[51:38] So I say it's bad bad.

Stuart Wellington

[51:39] They should have showed us the work print.

[51:40] Yeah.

[51:41] Yeah.

[51:41] We're the Monday morning movie makers.

[51:44] I'm going to agree.

[51:45] I think it's a bad, bad movie.

[51:46] I think I don't, I'm not going to lay the blame at really any of the performers.

[51:50] But it does feel like there's some, like, conceptual flaws in the basic choices made in the movie.

[51:59] And the people that don't work as well in the movie I think are more miscast.

[52:04] Yeah.

[52:04] It's kind of a stinker.

Elliott Kalan

[52:06] I am also going to call it a bad bad movie.

[52:08] Yes.

[52:08] I'm not going to blame any of the performers.

[52:10] I'm going to, as I always do, I'm going to blame whoever was giving notes on the movie.

[52:15] But the, yeah, it's a movie that is, it's trying so hard to be a specific type of kind of like fun, violent, semi-romantic comedy that I feel like the 90s tried out over and over again and could never really get, could rarely got the right balance of.

[52:35] And here they fail to get that balance too.

[52:36] But the whole time I was watching it, it was like, this felt like, I was like, maybe, I assume it's not, but it felt like a script that might've been kicking around since Pulp Fiction came out and then got gussied up with kind of like John Wick type.

[52:48] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[52:48] I mean, it doesn't help that it came out after Nobody, which does basically everything this movie does except for the tone better.

[52:57] And then it came out the same year as Hard Eyes, which is a like, you know, a slasher rom-com that again, like plays with like a non-traditional love story in a, but it's actually successful.

[53:12] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[53:13] But I just hope all these performers get that it's not taken as their problem and they, uh, and they get to, and they do more, do more and better stuff.

Stuart Wellington

[53:27] After 400 episodes, the Maximum Film Universe is kicking off a brand new phase.

S4

[53:33] We have got a brand new host, hilarious writer and comedian, Kevin Avery.

Stuart Wellington

[53:38] Hey, that's me.

[53:39] Kevin's teaming up with me, film critic Alonso Duraldi.

S4

[53:42] And me, producer and film festival programmer, Drea Clark.

Dan McCoy

[53:46] Together, we're taking on summer blockbuster season by talking about some of the biggest movies in theaters.

S4

[53:51] That makes this the perfect time to join the Maximum Film Gang.

S5

[53:55] Reserve your Maximum Film ticket.

[53:57] Pre-order your Maximum Film custom popcorn bucket.

[54:00] We're trying to say it's a great time to start listening to the podcast.

S4

[54:02] So jump back into the continuing adventures of Maximum Film every week on MaximumFun.org.

S5

[54:11] Hey, do you have a favorite episode of Star Trek?

[54:15] If you do, you should also have a favorite Star Trek podcast.

[54:18] Greatest Trek is about all the new streaming Star Trek shows and it's a great companion to The Greatest Generation, our hit show about back catalog Star Trek that you grew up with.

S6

[54:27] It's a comedy podcast by two folks who used to be video producers.

[54:31] So it's a serious mix of comedy and insight that fits right into the Maximum Fun network of shows.

S5

[54:36] And Greatest Trek is one of the most popular Star Trek podcasts in the world.

S6

[54:40] So if you're following Lower Decks, Prodigy, or Strange New Worlds, come hang out with us every Friday as we roast and review our favorite Star Trek shows.

S5

[54:49] It's on MaximumFun.org, YouTube, or your podcatching app.

Elliott Kalan

[54:54] The Flophouse is sponsored by nobody this week.

[54:57] If you want to sponsor The Flophouse, no.

[54:59] Buy some ad time on The Flophouse.

[55:01] But I have some things to promote, so I'm going to talk about them.

[55:04] It's the same stuff I'm always talking about.

[55:06] As you know, my new children's book, Sadie Mouse Wrecks the House.

[55:10] It's on store shelves.

[55:11] Now, go pick it up.

[55:12] Kids love this book.

[55:13] I'm getting a lot of good feedback on it.

[55:15] It is hilarious.

[55:16] It's about a mouse who's tired of being the good kid and is going to do her chores bad so she never has to do them again.

[55:22] And she wrecks the house.

[55:24] Super fun.

[55:25] Kids will love it.

[55:26] Adults who are immature will also like it.

[55:28] Sadie Mouse Wrecks the House.

[55:29] In stores now.

[55:30] Go to your independent bookstore and buy it.

[55:32] Go to your comic book store and why not pick up Harley Quinn coming out monthly from DC Comics written by me.

[55:38] I've been writing it for a while now.

[55:40] I'm about to hand in the script for the issue that I think makes this the longest run I've ever done on a comic book.

[55:46] And right now there's no end in sight.

[55:48] So please keep picking it up.

[55:50] Harley Quinn, story of everyone's favorite Harley Quinn.

[55:53] Harley Quinn.

[55:54] And she's having adventures.

[55:56] And the emphasis is just on having fun, being funny, doing adventures.

[55:59] And this is a long way in the future.

[56:01] But we are about five months away from the release of my book about joke writing, Joke Farming, from the University of Chicago Press.

[56:08] So I'm not going to mention it a lot until we get closer to the release when I'm going to mention it a lot.

[56:14] But get ready for that.

[56:15] Mark your calendars.

[56:15] It's coming out in November.

[56:16] Joke Farming.

[56:17] And I think the subtitle is How to Write Comedy and Other Nonsense or something like that.

[56:21] And it is hopefully the only joke writing manual that you will need that will explain literally the mechanics of how a joke works and how I write them.

Stuart Wellington

[56:31] Also, a week after this episode drops, I believe, is June 14th, which is the Brooklyn Pride Parade in Brooklyn, New York, along Fifth Avenue.

[56:42] And my bar, Commonwealth, is along that strip.

[56:46] And that whole area turns into a really huge party.

[56:49] And if you're looking for a place to pee and get a drink, you should check out Commonwealth.

[56:53] In that order, can we do it the other way around?

[56:56] It depends.

[56:56] It depends on how bad you have to go when you get there.

[56:59] And then five days after that is my birthday.

Dan McCoy

[57:02] So we've all got equally important plugs.

Elliott Kalan

[57:05] So, Dan, when are you – you're inviting all the Flophouse listeners to come to your birthday party?

[57:10] You're inviting everyone to your birthday?

[57:10] Nope.

[57:11] Uh-huh.

Dan McCoy

[57:12] If they can find it, they can't find it.

[57:15] So it's like the A-team.

Elliott Kalan

[57:16] If you're a fan of Dan's and you can find him, celebrate his birthday.

[57:20] Mm-hmm.

Dan McCoy

[57:21] Hey, let's do some letters from listeners.

[57:24] Let's do it.

[57:25] Listeners.

Stuart Wellington

[57:25] Yeah, I feel like that's what people on the internet need is more of an excuse to like try harder to find Dan.

Elliott Kalan

[57:33] Well, he is the mole, right?

[57:34] You have to find – he's running across the country and you've got to find him.

Stuart Wellington

[57:37] How did that game show work?

[57:38] Yeah, that's how the show works, right, Dan?

[57:40] I'm thinking of myself as more of a Waldo.

Dan McCoy

[57:42] Oh, yeah.

[57:43] A great Waldo pepper.

[57:46] Pepper.

[57:48] What are my – what's my Scoville rating?

[57:51] Hot.

[57:53] Hot.

[57:54] This is from Mark, last name withheld.

[57:57] Who writes –

[57:58] Mark Kiela, my dad.

Stuart Wellington

[57:59] Mark Wellington, my dad?

Dan McCoy

[58:01] Wow.

[58:02] You both – wow.

[58:03] That's right.

Stuart Wellington

[58:04] This is a real Batman versus Superman.

[58:05] Yeah, we were about to kill each other and then we remember being the same dads.

Elliott Kalan

[58:07] We were fighting in an abandoned men's room and then we realized our dads have the same name.

[58:12] So we should join forces to stop whoever the bad guy was in that movie.

[58:16] Mm-hmm.

[58:17] Mastermind, I think.

[58:18] This –

Dan McCoy

[58:19] I think it was Toyman.

[58:21] Yeah.

[58:24] This is titled Personal Non-Canon Sequels.

[58:27] Hello from London.

[58:28] Good day.

[58:29] Love the flop.

[58:31] I have a query about personal non-canon sequels.

[58:34] Alas, another simple favor didn't recapture the magic of the first movie, despite the lead still having that chemistry.

[58:41] In an attempt to further the story, the movie took the characters into places that semi-ruined the joy of the first.

[58:47] So I've decided to remove the sequel from my head canon so I can just enjoy a simple favor as originally intended.

[58:54] Do you have any sequels that you'd also like to remove from your existence?

[58:58] Thanks for reading.

[59:00] P.S.

[59:00] My simple favor sequel would have adhered much more to a Silence of the Lambs-style plot structure, but with more martinis and fabulous outfits in replacement for cannibalism.

[59:10] I'm not sure how that would – I guess Anna Kendrick would have to visit Blake Lively in prison to capture someone else.

[59:16] Is that what the implication is?

[59:17] I assume so, yeah.

[59:18] But with – yeah.

[59:19] And cannibalism would be in there?

[59:21] Yeah.

[59:21] I mean, speaking of sequels I would remove, I would remove Hannibal from my silence of the Lambs.

[59:29] Oh, yeah.

[59:29] It's not good.

[59:29] Not the show.

[59:30] The TV show Hannibal, of course, can exist.

[59:34] But the movie kind of ruins, I think, Chloe's Carling.

[59:38] Probably a weak spot of old Ridley Scott's career.

[59:42] Yeah.

[59:42] I mean, I do this all the time.

[59:44] I'm like, you know, well, didn't like that one.

[59:47] Doesn't exist in my personal cosmology of these characters.

[59:50] Yeah, you were yelling at me about The Last Jedi, right?

[59:55] Love The Last Jedi.

[59:56] I don't – but like this is why I don't actually – I mean, like I get annoyed if like I was looking forward to a movie and it sucks as anyone might.

[1:00:06] But I don't get like angry the way people seem to.

[1:00:09] Like that ruined everything.

[1:00:10] I'm like, well, you can just pretend it doesn't exist, man.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:12] Well, the trick is as you get older and you develop a rich, full life, you don't care as much.

[1:00:18] I mean, that is a big part of it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:19] I think there's a – if you feel like you have some sense of control over any element of your own life, then you might feel less attached to the fictional lives of fictional characters.

[1:00:29] But the – yeah, I don't know.

[1:00:30] I mean, it's one that like – as far as I'm concerned, the Terminator series ends with Terminator 2.

[1:00:35] Like there's no reason for otherwise after that.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:35] Yeah, I mean, Terminator Salvation is a very clear one for me.

[1:00:39] I really dislike that.

[1:00:40] And the –

[1:00:41] But part three does have that bit where Arnold like head slams Christiana Locken into a toilet.

[1:00:50] That's kind of crazy.

[1:00:52] That's a crazy looking fight.

[1:00:54] And I like the most recent one a bit, the Terminator.

[1:00:58] What's dark future, dark fate?

Dan McCoy

[1:01:00] Dark fate.

[1:01:00] But like those can exist sort of like as like – I don't know.

[1:01:06] Supplementary material.

[1:01:07] Multiverse.

[1:01:08] Whatever.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:08] It's like – something I like about the Godzilla series is that at a certain point they decided every movie we make is a sequel to the 1954 Godzilla and will disavow the previous sequels.

[1:01:20] And they've done a number of sequels in a row where they all ignore every movie made previously including the one made most recently before that.

[1:01:28] And they're like, this is just how we're doing it.

[1:01:29] It's just different stories about Godzilla.

[1:01:31] We're not beholden to what happened to him before because we don't want to have to process all that.

[1:01:35] And it makes the character a little more special because it means that the people in the movie series don't have a familiarity with Godzilla the same way they would if there were literally 30 Godzilla adventures that had happened in canon in real life.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:48] Yeah, it's like the first Godzilla is the like Big Bang moment and that all the movies are like spread out from that one specific point.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:57] All the other movies are the young Sheldons that come after that Big Bang.

[1:02:00] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:01] Yeah.

[1:02:02] Thanks for putting in terms that I understand.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:04] No problem.

[1:02:04] But I remember like when I was younger, like when Alien 3 came out, getting caught up in like how disappointing it was to have all the characters – have like the characters from Aliens that we liked just be dead, you know?

[1:02:14] Yes.

Dan McCoy

[1:02:14] No, no, I – yeah, for me, like Aliens with Aliens.

[1:02:18] And similarly, like there's stuff I like in –

[1:02:20] There's stuff I like in some of the other movies, yeah.

[1:02:22] There's stuff I like in some of the –

[1:02:24] Stuart is making a dubious face.

[1:02:26] What are you talking about?

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:27] I like them all, man.

Dan McCoy

[1:02:28] There's some stuff I like –

[1:02:30] Except for Romulus.

[1:02:30] In the later Indiana Jones movies.

[1:02:34] But basically it ends for me with Last Crusade like in terms of like taking it seriously.

[1:02:39] It's like these are movies I really like.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:41] But part of the issue is that – is there's – and I don't want to sound like a Last Jedi hating guy because this is the issue.

[1:02:47] But some people have Last Jedi is that when you do some of those much later sequels, it's – they fall on that easy structure of the hero is bitter and has to be brought back in.

[1:02:56] And seeing Indiana Jones in that most recent one, being a bitter old man separated from his wife and hating his job, it was just like I don't care if he is going to have another adventure.

[1:03:07] Like this is a depressing way to think this character is going to age up.

[1:03:11] As opposed to Luke Skywalker in Last Jedi where I'm like I do like the idea of a hero who has – that's on such an operatic level, the Star Wars movies, that if he is a tragic figure who has failed his own principles, then I'm like, oh, well, that's a meaty thing.

[1:03:25] Whereas Indiana Jones does not operate on that level for me.

[1:03:28] So to see him as just like, yeah, he was an adventure and now he hates every aspect of his life and he's just an – he's just a bitter old man.

[1:03:34] It's like, oh, well, that's disappointing.

Dan McCoy

[1:03:35] Maybe I'm just a sad person but I like the most recent one.

[1:03:39] I did the – I had more of a problem with Crystal Skull even though there's a couple things in there I like where it's just like – I feel like it has a lot of the same problems but also a lot of other extra problems.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:50] I mean Dial of Time or whatever is Dial of Destiny.

[1:03:53] I haven't even seen that one.

[1:03:54] Should I see that one?

[1:03:55] I think it's good.

[1:03:56] It's fine.

[1:03:56] It's better than Crystal Skull.

[1:03:58] But it's a movie that I will say I liked it.

[1:04:00] I didn't like it at the beginning.

[1:04:01] Is Mutt back?

[1:04:02] Mutt is not back.

Dan McCoy

[1:04:02] I liked it.

[1:04:03] He's pointedly not back.

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:05] I liked it more.

[1:04:06] I mean it wouldn't want me to be more.

[1:04:07] They show you the grave.

[1:04:09] Kind of.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:10] He has like a shrine to Mutt and it just – oh, yeah, he was killed when he tried to ride a motorcycle into a train or something like that.

[1:04:17] Yeah.

[1:04:17] But I liked that movie as it went on because it got sillier and sillier or it got bigger and bigger.

[1:04:22] Okay.

Dan McCoy

[1:04:24] We got one more question from a listener.

[1:04:26] It's from John.

[1:04:27] Last name withheld.

[1:04:29] Subject is salacious crumb.

[1:04:31] Oh, one of my favorite subjects.

[1:04:34] Message body.

[1:04:35] Is he a pet or a friend?

[1:04:37] Thanks.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:37] He is an employee.

[1:04:39] He is both a pet and an employee.

[1:04:41] He's not a friend.

[1:04:41] Jabba has no real friends.

[1:04:43] When you're that rich and that powerful and that dangerous, you don't have real friends.

[1:04:46] You only have people who are afraid of you or want to use you.

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:49] That's fucked up, Elliot.

[1:04:50] So you're saying when salacious crumb is like loving it and laughing his ass off, he's performing that way?

[1:04:56] He's not doing that out of actual joy?

[1:04:58] Here's the great thing about salacious crumb.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:00] He loves his work.

[1:05:01] So that is the real joy.

[1:05:03] Luckily, he found the job that was right for him, which is as a pet who enjoys seeing his owner throw people to the rancor pit.

[1:05:11] So when salacious crumb is laughing.

Dan McCoy

[1:05:12] And letting him torment droids.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:13] Yes.

[1:05:14] That's a genuine laugh.

[1:05:15] The same way that when I am working and I'm in the writer's room and we're genuinely coming up with really fun ideas and enjoying it and I laugh heartily.

[1:05:22] It's like, man, this is what a great conjunction of work and also what gives me pleasure.

[1:05:27] And salacious crumb lives the dream of having that every single day until the barge explodes and he dies in a fireball.

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:33] Yeah, I heard those complaints that in the writer's room you're always laughing like salacious crumb.

[1:05:37] And they're like, it's kind of off-putting.

[1:05:39] They would be so lucky if I laughed like, that would be wonderful.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:43] I should do that on Monday.

[1:05:44] Yeah.

[1:05:46] But yeah, salacious crumb, he's an employee pet.

Dan McCoy

[1:05:49] He's like a hype man, right?

[1:05:50] Like he's.

[1:05:50] Yes.

[1:05:51] Yeah.

[1:05:52] He's definitely like a hype man.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:54] When Kendrick Lamar goes mustard and mustard comes out, that's what Jabba the Hutt would do.

[1:05:58] He goes salacious and then salacious crumb would come out.

[1:05:59] It's the same relationship.

[1:06:00] Yeah.

[1:06:01] Yeah.

[1:06:01] Same relationship.

Stuart Wellington

[1:06:02] And on my black light poster, salacious crumb would be Morty and Jabba would be Rick, right?

[1:06:09] I guess so.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:10] Yeah, exactly.

[1:06:11] Oh, wait.

[1:06:12] Well, actually, I'm not so sure about that.

Dan McCoy

[1:06:13] Stuart, we have to stop relating everything to your black light posters.

[1:06:16] Okay.

[1:06:18] I don't think that everything in the world can be defined that way.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:21] We were talking about Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Stuart's like, but who is he on my black light poster?

Stuart Wellington

[1:06:26] Yeah.

[1:06:26] Is he the unicorn that's flying throughout our space or is he the world snake that's devouring itself?

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:32] Is he the butterfly-winged tiger that the barbarian queen is riding?

[1:06:36] Uh-huh.

[1:06:36] Oh, man.

Dan McCoy

[1:06:38] Let us now, let us go then, you and I.

Stuart Wellington

[1:06:43] To a magical land.

[1:06:44] Take my hand.

Dan McCoy

[1:06:45] To a recommendation.

[1:06:47] We'll make it.

[1:06:47] I swear.

[1:06:49] Movies that we saw, that we enjoyed, perhaps a little bit more than Love Hurts.

[1:06:55] So much that we would go so far as to say, you might enjoy them as well.

[1:06:59] And I saw on Hulu, I just watched Summer of 69, which…

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:06] You thought it was something different from the number in the title.

Dan McCoy

[1:07:09] Well, actually, it means that in the movie.

[1:07:11] Oh, never mind that.

[1:07:12] They're referring to that.

[1:07:13] So, you know, this could just be like Hulu slop.

[1:07:17] You know, like you…

[1:07:19] Give me an example.

[1:07:20] Drop some Hulu slop on me.

[1:07:21] I don't know.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:22] I love the idea that in our world, the phrase Hulu slop means something.

[1:07:26] And it's not just like a funk performer from the 70s.

[1:07:30] You know, I feel like…

[1:07:31] Here's a cut you don't hear much from Hulu slop.

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:34] Yeah.

[1:07:34] I feel like for the most part, the Hulu, like direct to Hulu stuff is at least a step above

[1:07:40] Netflix.

[1:07:40] Maybe I'm…

[1:07:41] Maybe I'm misremembering things.

Dan McCoy

[1:07:43] I think that's probably true, but there is like a type of just like…

[1:07:46] Yeah.

[1:07:47] Baseline glossy, but it's not…

[1:07:49] It's not even like this…

[1:07:53] I feel like in the old days, you would find gems in direct to video or direct to streaming

[1:07:59] stuff.

[1:08:00] But the idea was mostly like, oh, this fell short of what could be theatrical.

[1:08:07] And so it ended up here, whereas now, like the bar has been lowered a lot of the time.

[1:08:13] And now it's just like, well, this is something you can kind of pay attention to.

Stuart Wellington

[1:08:16] Wasn't Lake George a recent Hulu original?

[1:08:20] I think…

Dan McCoy

[1:08:21] Well, I mean, it was in theaters.

[1:08:23] Oh, okay.

[1:08:23] I don't know whether it was…

[1:08:25] I don't know.

[1:08:26] I don't know.

[1:08:27] I don't know the deals.

[1:08:28] Okay.

[1:08:28] The deals were structured.

[1:08:30] But anyway, Summer of 69 has Chloe Fineman from Saturday Night Live, and it has the main

[1:08:38] character…

[1:08:38] She was also in Megalopolis, Dan.

[1:08:40] Sure.

[1:08:42] The main character is played by Sam…

[1:08:44] Thank you for correcting that, Stuart.

[1:08:46] Sam Morelos.

[1:08:47] I don't know if I'm saying the last name correctly, but she was apparently in that 90s show.

[1:08:51] That 90s show.

[1:08:52] Yeah, yeah.

[1:08:53] But she was terrific in this.

[1:08:54] Like, they were both really good.

[1:08:56] It's a…

[1:08:56] I like Sam Morelos a lot.

Elliott Kalan

[1:08:58] Yeah.

[1:08:58] I think she's a funny performer.

Dan McCoy

[1:09:01] This is like a, you know, a teenage sex comedy.

[1:09:04] The idea is that Sam Morelos character has this crush.

[1:09:10] She hears a rumor that her crush is really into 69ing.

[1:09:16] She is a nerd.

[1:09:19] She knows nothing of sex.

[1:09:21] Like, she can't…

[1:09:22] It's like goes beyond like just something that she could Google.

[1:09:24] She like wants to feel confident.

[1:09:26] So, she employs Chloe Fineman's stripper character to like sort of teach her this sort of thing.

[1:09:33] But this is a very broad setup.

[1:09:36] But what I liked about this movie is like once this broad sort of sex comedy setup happens,

[1:09:40] it then turns into kind of a sweet, odd couple friendship comedy between the two of them

[1:09:47] and one that feels realistic where Feynman's character is sort of prickly and mean to this nerd kid through a lot of it rather than being like just having a heart of gold.

[1:09:59] And she's got her own concerns.

[1:10:00] She wants like the money that this kid is offering for her own reasons.

[1:10:04] So that she can learn how to 69.

[1:10:07] She wants to buy the strip club.

[1:10:09] Yeah.

[1:10:09] So she's a businesswoman.

[1:10:12] And there's a warmth there like and the teenager character is nerdy in a specific way rather than sort of just being an off-the-shelf like wallflower.

[1:10:24] I thought it was really kind of warm and weirdly realistic for such a broad setup ultimately in a way that I enjoyed.

[1:10:34] So that's what I saw recently that I liked.

Stuart Wellington

[1:10:37] I'm going to recommend a little crime movie that came out last year called The Order.

[1:10:44] Stars Jude Law.

[1:10:46] You got some Ty Sheridan.

[1:10:47] You got some Nicholas Holt.

[1:10:49] And it's based on – I guess based loosely on a true story about the FBI being interested in a series of robberies.

[1:10:58] And those turn out to be linked to a white supremacist cult organization led by Nicholas Holt, which I think is kind of fun casting because he's a little old baby face.

[1:11:11] A little old baby face.

[1:11:13] He's neither little nor old.

[1:11:16] The movie I think has some really good tense moments and I – yeah, I think it's like a solid little crime thriller.

[1:11:27] And it's also – I think this flavor of Jude Law where he's like kind of older and grizzled.

[1:11:33] That might be my new favorite Jude Law flavor, guys.

[1:11:36] He's got a mustache.

[1:11:37] The new Jude Law flavor.

[1:11:38] Yeah, you got to try it.

[1:11:40] Head over.

[1:11:40] Yeah, I'm tired of cookies and Jude.

[1:11:42] That was the old flavor.

[1:11:44] No, thanks.

[1:11:45] Yeah, so yeah, if you're looking for like a tight little crime thriller that is what set in the 70s I think so you get some really cool outfits, check it out.

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:56] I'm going to recommend a documentary – rather a documentary series.

[1:12:00] It is neither tight nor little.

[1:12:01] It is a two-part documentary series that was just recently released on Max.

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:06] If it's The Last Dance, I will be blown away.

[1:12:08] No, I do want to see The Last Dance.

[1:12:10] It's great.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:10] I haven't watched it yet.

[1:12:10] I've heard it's great.

[1:12:11] This was – it's on Max, which is soon to be called HBO Max because renaming it Max was dumb.

[1:12:16] But this is the two-part series Pee-wee as himself, the documentary directed by Matt Wolfe.

[1:12:21] Oh, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:21] I've been looking forward to watch that.

[1:12:23] It's really good.

[1:12:24] It's really good.

[1:12:24] And it's really – there's a – I mean, I've been a fan of Pee-wee Herman and Paul Reubens since I was a kid.

[1:12:30] And he's always seemed to be one of those figures where it's like it's hard to imagine him as a real person because he's so associated with the Pee-wee character.

[1:12:37] And there was something very illuminating to me about seeing him on camera really as himself and being – you know, you'll read about – you're reading about the documentary.

[1:12:48] People talk about like he's combative with the director and stuff like that.

[1:12:50] And he's very like prickly at times.

[1:12:52] But in a way that is intriguing and not – and that reveals more about himself in some ways.

[1:12:59] And just seeing – learning his full story of like where he came from and how he developed that character and how he developed as an artist and a performer was really fantastic and fascinating.

[1:13:10] And I got to see what Gary Panter looks like now.

[1:13:13] Oh, wow.

[1:13:13] As an old man.

[1:13:14] Because they interview him a little bit.

Dan McCoy

[1:13:17] Does he look like one of his drawings?

[1:13:19] That's how I imagine him.

[1:13:19] No, he doesn't look like one of his drawings.

[1:13:21] No.

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:22] But I thought it was really good.

[1:13:24] And a friend of the podcast, Jesse Thorne, who worked with Paul Rubens on an audio project at one point, he said that it really felt like it gave the idea of what it's like to be around Paul Rubens and like working with him.

[1:13:36] And so that really fit his experience.

[1:13:38] So I really recommend it.

[1:13:39] I think it's great.

[1:13:40] There's this – just a phenomenal amount of archival footage of him as a young performer, which was really fantastic and fascinating.

[1:13:48] So Pee-wee as himself I recommend.

Dan McCoy

[1:13:50] Well, guys, that's it.

[1:13:52] Another one for the books.

[1:13:54] I really enjoyed this.

[1:13:55] I've been alone in the house for two days.

[1:13:58] So this – I really needed to hang out with you guys.

[1:14:02] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:14:03] Thank you for being here.

[1:14:04] And thank you, listeners, for being wherever you are on the other end of these radio waves, these podcast waves.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:12] I don't think you know how podcasts work, Dan.

[1:14:13] No, I don't.

Dan McCoy

[1:14:14] Is it elves?

Stuart Wellington

[1:14:16] Yeah, it's little elves that jump in your ear and whisper what we're saying in our voices.

[1:14:20] As they slide down on Mumakil's trunk and delivers a podcast to you.

Dan McCoy

[1:14:25] Thank you to our producer, Alex Smith.

[1:14:28] He goes by the name Howell Doughty all over the internet.

[1:14:31] You can listen to his music.

[1:14:33] He does Twitch streams.

[1:14:34] He does a lot of stuff.

[1:14:36] Thank you to Maximum Fun.

[1:14:38] If you go to MaximumFun.org, you can listen to all kinds of great podcasts.

[1:14:45] I was going to say a lot and then I realized the vowel sounds I was making were not going to fit into where I was going.

[1:14:52] Ah, interesting.

[1:14:54] But if you enjoy this podcast, you'll probably like one of the other ones.

[1:14:57] Why not give him a shot?

[1:14:59] But anyway, for the Flophouse, I've been Dan McCoy.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:02] Yeah, I've been Stuart Wellington, partner.

[1:15:05] Oh, okay.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:07] And I'm still, really, Kalen.

[1:15:08] I just can't – I don't know how to react to Stuart becoming John Wayne all of a sudden.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:13] I'm a new guy there, partner.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:15] Well, I can't wait to find out who Stuart is next time.

[1:15:19] I'm Ellie Kalen for now, though.

[1:15:21] Bye.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:29] On this episode, we discuss love hurts.

[1:15:33] Does it ever?

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:35] Wait, no, I got a better one.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:36] I got a better one.

[1:15:37] Okay, okay.

[1:15:38] Seemed too real.

[1:15:43] Maximum Fun.

[1:15:47] A worker-owned network.

[1:15:48] Of artist-owned shows.

[1:15:50] Supported.

[1:15:51] Directly.

[1:15:52] By you.

Ep. #453 - Love Hurts

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