FH Mini 130 - A Galactus-Sized Explainer

[0:00] Hello out there in Flophouse podcast land.

Elliott Kalan

[0:07] My name is Elliot Kalin.

[0:08] I am one of the three Flopscateers,

[0:10] the regular co-hosts of the Flophouse,

[0:12] and it is my deep dismay to tell you

[0:14] that Dan and Stuart are not here today.

[0:16] It's just me.

[0:17] Just kidding.

[0:18] Here they are.

[0:18] Dan, Stuart, introduce yourself, please.

[0:20] Wow.

[0:21] It's me, Dan McCoy.

[0:21] I was wondering how long you were going to keep that up.

[0:23] It's me, Stuart Wellington.

[0:24] I was going to go down that road,

[0:26] and then I decided I didn't want to.

[0:27] So this is a Flophouse mini.

[0:29] Normally on the Flophouse, we watch a bad movie.

[0:31] We talk about it.

[0:32] Last week, of course, was Love Hurts,

[0:34] and boy, did it ever.

[0:35] This week, though, we're going to ease our wounds

[0:38] and kind of like nurse ourselves

[0:40] into good health from that hurt by doing a mini,

[0:43] which is when we talk about whatever we want,

[0:45] or in this case, whatever the fans want,

[0:48] one fan in particular.

[0:49] Because there was one fan in particular,

[0:51] Andrew, last name withheld,

[0:52] who wrote into the podcast asking for an explainer.

[0:56] I've done these kind of explainers every now and then

[0:57] for comic book-ical things

[0:59] when there's a comic book-ical movie coming out.

[1:01] I did an explainer for The Eternals.

[1:03] I did an explainer for Adam Warlock.

[1:05] One of those explainers-

[1:06] Those both really cleared everything up for me.

[1:08] They did.

[1:09] I mean, one of those Adam Warlock explainers

[1:10] got hijacked by Tom Brokaw.

[1:12] We don't have to worry about that happening today.

[1:13] Yeah.

[1:13] Because I know he's out in the desert

[1:15] going on what he calls a dune walk,

[1:17] so we don't need to worry about him returning for this.

[1:19] But Andrew, last name withheld,

[1:21] requested an explainer for the upcoming Fantastic Four First Steps

[1:26] is the name of the movie, right?

[1:28] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:28] Real quick, a dune walk,

[1:29] is that when the Fremen do that little stanky leg thing

[1:32] across the dunes?

[1:33] Exactly.

Elliott Kalan

[1:33] He's practicing that.

[1:34] He does that just for days straight,

[1:36] until he goes into a fugue of some kind.

[1:39] So there's a new Fantastic Four movie coming up.

[1:43] Not a Fantastic More movie,

[1:44] which I was about to say.

Dan McCoy

[1:45] Well, there's more Fantastic Four,

[1:47] because as you said, it's called First Steps,

[1:48] but this is the fifth Fantastic Four film.

[1:52] There was the Corman one, right?

[1:54] There were the two Tim, is it Tim Story?

[1:57] Not Tim Story.

[1:58] They have stories in them.

[2:00] The one that had Jessica Alba in those ones,

[2:03] and Chick List and whatever.

[2:04] And then there was the F4.

[2:06] The one that we did on this podcast.

Stuart Wellington

[2:08] The Trank one.

[2:08] Oh, yeah.

[2:09] Which is your favorite?

[2:10] Which is your favorite of the ones you've mentioned before, Dan?

Dan McCoy

[2:14] You know, like, the Trank one actually had some interesting stuff in it.

[2:17] It just felt like it was something,

[2:20] something got fucked up with it,

[2:22] with the studio or something.

Elliott Kalan

[2:24] Honestly, of all the Fantastic Four movies,

[2:27] my favorite is probably the Corman one,

[2:28] just because it's so, it's so,

[2:30] it's not good and it's so cheap,

[2:31] but it has the same kind of, like,

[2:33] ramshackle feel that the early Fantastic Four issues have,

[2:36] in a bad way.

[2:38] The ramshackle feel in the early issues is good,

[2:40] but they have it in a bad way.

[2:40] But anyway.

[2:41] Guys, that's right.

Dan McCoy

[2:42] It was Tim's story who directed those,

[2:44] the Alba Chiclis.

[2:46] I said they had stories in them.

[2:47] Okay.

[2:47] I lost a bet.

[2:49] But, but,

[2:50] one of the writers,

[2:51] one of the listed writers for the first Fantastic Four

[2:53] is Mark Frost,

[2:56] co-writer of Twin Peaks with David Wendt.

[2:58] Well, that's why Invisible Woman ends up

Elliott Kalan

[3:00] dead wrapped in plastic at the end of the movie.

[3:02] So wild.

Elliott Kalan

[3:02] Anyway.

[3:03] Sorry.

[3:03] Namor would be bummed out.

[3:05] He would be so bummed.

[3:07] I mean,

[3:07] and as we know from What If Comics,

[3:09] anytime Reed Richards loses his wife,

[3:10] either to Namor or to death,

[3:11] he goes insane and tries,

[3:13] and just goes mad.

[3:14] So,

[3:15] Andrew wrote in and said,

[3:17] I'm looking forward to the new Fantastic Four movie,

[3:19] however,

[3:19] I'm not entirely familiar with all of the characters,

[3:21] in particular,

[3:22] Silver Surfer,

[3:23] Galactus,

[3:24] and the mythology of the comic.

[3:25] And he asked for a small primer

[3:27] in the same vein of the Adam Warlock one.

[3:28] So that's what we're going to do today.

[3:30] And this is going to be a special episode mini

[3:31] called Elliot Explains the Galactus Trilogy.

[3:36] Let's say it's a Galactus Saga trilogy.

[3:37] And I'll say Elliot Explains the Galactus Trilogy.

[3:40] And first,

[3:40] I want to start by saying,

[3:42] Dan,

[3:42] Stu,

[3:43] how familiar are you

[3:44] with the Fantastic Four characters?

[3:46] And these are the characters

[3:47] that are going to be in this movie,

[3:48] the Fantastic Four,

[3:50] first steps.

[3:51] How familiar are you with them?

Dan McCoy

[3:52] I know that Ben Grimm,

[3:53] the thing,

[3:54] just hates that,

[3:55] the Ante Street gang.

[3:56] I mean,

[3:57] they're always pranking him.

Stuart Wellington

[3:57] They're always pranking him.

[3:58] That's the problem, yeah.

[3:59] I know that Silver Server's name

[4:01] is Roran Nadd

[4:03] or something like that.

Elliott Kalan

[4:03] No, it's Noran Rad.

[4:05] Okay,

[4:05] so you don't know something about him.

Dan McCoy

[4:07] You know,

[4:07] so there are four folks.

[4:11] Yeah.

[4:12] Three of them are related.

[4:14] One of whom is Jewish, right?

[4:15] Or at least in the same family,

[4:17] not related,

[4:17] all three.

[4:18] And one of them is the best friend.

[4:20] Yeah.

[4:21] And they went into space.

[4:23] Yeah.

[4:23] They got bombarded with cosmic rays.

[4:25] One of them got stretchy.

[4:27] One of them can be invisible

[4:28] and make force fields.

[4:30] One of them is a rock guy.

[4:31] Yeah.

[4:32] And one of them is a flame guy

[4:33] who can fly.

Elliott Kalan

[4:33] Now, by a rock guy,

[4:34] you mean he collects minerals?

[4:36] Yeah.

[4:37] I mean,

[4:37] yeah,

[4:37] his name is Slash

[4:39] and he's a guitarist

[4:40] for G and R.

[4:42] The G stands for geode

[4:43] and the R stands for rocks.

[4:45] Yeah.

[4:46] So, Dan,

[4:47] you've done a great job.

[4:48] Stuart,

[4:49] you've done it,

[4:49] you've done it.

[4:50] Yeah,

[4:50] you almost got the server's name right.

[4:52] So,

[4:52] let me take you back to the beginning.

[4:53] So,

[4:55] they are the birth

[4:55] of the Marvel Universe

[4:57] in comics.

[4:58] So,

[4:58] it's ironic

[4:58] that they're coming so late

[5:00] in the movie versions

[5:02] because

[5:02] in 1961,

[5:04] Marvel Comics

[5:05] is not even fully called

[5:06] Marvel Comics yet.

[5:07] I think it's still

[5:08] potentially between names.

[5:10] It was called Timely

[5:11] at one point.

[5:11] It's called Atlas at one point.

[5:13] I think it was between

[5:13] Timely and Marvel.

[5:14] I could be wrong.

[5:14] But it's November 1961.

[5:15] That's the cover date,

[5:16] which doesn't mean

[5:17] it's actually when it came out,

[5:18] but that's the cover date.

[5:19] They do this,

[5:20] that they've been doing

[5:21] monster comics

[5:22] for a long time

[5:23] at Marvel

[5:23] and it's time to bring

[5:24] superheroes back for them

[5:25] because superheroes

[5:25] are doing fine

[5:26] at DC again.

[5:28] And

[5:28] Jack Kirby

[5:29] and Stan Lee,

[5:30] the two of the three

[5:31] bedrock

[5:32] foundational creators

[5:33] of the Marvel characters,

[5:35] the other one being,

[5:35] of course,

[5:35] Steve Ditko,

[5:36] the creator of Spider-Man

[5:37] and Doctor Strange.

[5:39] They come up with this team,

[5:40] the Fantastic Four.

[5:41] Now,

[5:42] here's the thing

[5:42] we're going to get into

[5:43] just slightly in this,

[5:44] but not a lot.

[5:45] For decades,

[5:46] the argument has been

[5:46] who deserves more credit,

[5:48] Jack Kirby or Stan Lee?

[5:49] Did Jack Kirby come up with it

[5:50] and then Stan Lee

[5:51] just kind of put his gloss?

[5:52] Did Stan Lee tell Jack Kirby,

[5:54] this is what I need you to do

[5:55] and we will figure out together?

[5:57] There's a great,

[5:58] great book called,

[5:59] I think,

[6:01] Kirby and Lee Stuff Said,

[6:02] I think,

[6:03] which collects

[6:04] all of the existent

[6:06] kind of interview

[6:07] or known quotes

[6:09] from Kirby and Lee

[6:10] about working together

[6:11] and puts them

[6:12] kind of in chronological order

[6:13] and it's the closest

[6:14] I've been able to see

[6:15] of something that actually

[6:16] kind of digs in

[6:17] who did what

[6:18] and how much people

[6:19] can be credited

[6:20] with which aspect of it.

[6:21] But anyway,

[6:22] I highly recommend that book

[6:23] if you want to learn more

[6:24] about the Kirby-Lee relationship

[6:25] and how they work together.

[6:26] It's from Tomorrow's Publishing,

[6:27] I think,

[6:28] so go to them

[6:29] and find it.

[6:30] It's a great book,

[6:31] Kirby and Lee Stuff Said.

[6:32] I think Stuff is spelled

[6:32] S-T-U-F.

[6:35] But maybe I'm wrong,

[6:36] I can't remember.

[6:38] So we're not going to get

[6:38] into that super much

[6:40] except in terms of

[6:41] The Silver Surfer later

[6:42] because that's part of the story

[6:43] of The Silver Surfer

[6:44] is the Stanley-Jack Kirby relationship.

[6:46] Anyway,

[6:47] they come up with these superheroes,

[6:48] they got four of them

[6:49] and they are

[6:50] Reed Richards,

[6:51] Mr. Fantastic.

[6:52] He's stretchy

[6:53] and he's a brilliant genius.

[6:54] Ben Grimm,

[6:55] Reed Richards' best friend

[6:56] and college roommate,

[6:57] The Thing,

[6:58] fighter pilot,

[6:59] goes into space,

[7:00] becomes back a strong guy

[7:01] made out of rocks.

[7:02] Sue Storm,

[7:03] not yet Reed Richards' wife

[7:04] but they will get married eventually.

[7:05] It's his girlfriend.

[7:06] She eventually,

[7:07] she goes up with them in space,

[7:08] becomes the invisible woman,

[7:10] first the invisible girl

[7:11] and then 20 years later,

[7:13] her name finally changes

[7:14] to the invisible woman.

[7:15] She grew up after 20 years.

[7:17] After 20 years.

[7:18] But it's literally

[7:19] at a certain point,

[7:20] she had,

[7:20] I mean,

[7:20] for a lot of it,

[7:21] she is married and a mother

[7:22] and she's still calling herself

[7:23] the invisible girl.

[7:24] Stanley kept saying,

Dan McCoy

[7:25] girl,

[7:25] you'll be a woman soon

[7:26] but we put her off.

[7:28] But not yet.

Elliott Kalan

[7:28] And Johnny Storm,

[7:30] the hot rod loving younger brother

[7:31] of Sue Storm

[7:32] who becomes the human torch.

[7:33] And so,

[7:34] like you said,

[7:34] Dan,

[7:35] they go up into space,

[7:36] they get hit by cosmic rays

[7:37] because their spaceship

[7:38] is experimental,

[7:39] it's not shielded right.

[7:40] They come back with these powers

[7:41] and they become adventurers

[7:43] and they become

[7:43] the first superhero group

[7:45] of the 60s Marvel.

[7:47] And that's the one.

Stuart Wellington

[7:47] Do their powers

[7:48] or those extensions

[7:49] of their,

[7:50] like,

[7:50] personalities?

[7:52] Do the cosmic rays

[7:53] just take what was there

[7:54] and expand on them?

[7:55] Yeah,

Dan McCoy

[7:55] Reed's a really stretchy personality.

Elliott Kalan

[7:58] Well,

[7:58] I mean,

[7:59] you could say that.

Dan McCoy

[7:59] He's actually kind of rigid

[8:00] so it might be the opposite

[8:01] in that case.

[8:02] I don't know.

Elliott Kalan

[8:02] You could say

[8:03] as their characterizations develop

[8:04] that Johnny is a hothead.

[8:06] So,

[8:07] like,

[8:07] he is a young guy

[8:08] who's a hothead

[8:08] so he becomes the human torch.

[8:09] Ben Grimm is a character

[8:11] who is also a hothead

[8:13] but has a,

[8:15] he's very kind.

[8:16] But has a,

[8:16] the thing that becomes

[8:17] the core of him

[8:18] is the issue of self-esteem

[8:19] that he has,

[8:20] that he is super strong

[8:21] but he thinks he's a monster.

[8:22] He can never be loved.

[8:23] His girlfriend,

[8:24] Alicia Masters,

[8:24] is blind

[8:25] and he's always worried

[8:26] that she's going to,

[8:27] she's going to discard him

[8:29] if she ever gains her sight

[8:30] and can see what

[8:31] he looks like again.

[8:32] So,

[8:32] maybe it comes from

[8:33] a feeling of deficiency

[8:34] because his best friend

[8:35] is a genius,

[8:36] you know.

[8:37] Reed Richards,

[8:38] you could say that

[8:38] his thinking is flexible.

[8:40] He's able to,

[8:41] he is very rigid

[8:42] in other ways

[8:43] but that he's able

[8:44] to come up with

[8:45] these amazing ideas

[8:46] in the way that

[8:46] he stretches his body

[8:47] and as The Invisible Girl

[8:48] is written by Stan Lee,

[8:49] she is constantly

[8:50] disappearing into the background

[8:51] because as the female character,

[8:53] he does not care

[8:53] as much about her

[8:54] and does not give her

[8:55] as much to do.

[8:56] So,

[8:56] I guess that's part of it.

[8:57] But this is where

[8:58] the Marvel Universe

[8:59] really begins

[9:00] in the Silver Age

[9:01] and this is the book

[9:03] that Jack Kirby

[9:04] for a long time

[9:05] as the artist on the book

[9:06] and eventually

[9:06] mainly the plotter

[9:07] on the book

[9:08] who was writing the stories

[9:09] would write the dialogue.

[9:11] He was using this

[9:11] as his laboratory

[9:13] for creating new places

[9:14] and concepts

[9:15] that the other Marvel titles

[9:17] could then work off of

[9:18] and use.

[9:21] Jack Kirby is,

[9:22] he's one of the best known

[9:24] comic book artists

[9:24] for a reason.

[9:25] He's the king.

[9:26] He's one of the greatest artists

[9:27] that ever worked in comics

[9:28] not necessarily

[9:29] because he has the best

[9:30] technical skills

[9:32] although his storytelling skills

[9:33] are among the best

[9:35] that there ever were.

[9:36] His characters,

[9:37] their proportions are weird.

[9:38] Their anatomy is weird.

[9:40] They're not always consistent

[9:41] in a great way

[9:43] from panel to panel

[9:43] but his storytelling

[9:44] and his power

[9:45] are so strong

[9:46] and also his imagination

[9:48] is so incredible.

[9:50] It's so,

[9:50] he is like

[9:51] an idea machine

[9:53] when he's at his best

[9:54] and also when he's

[9:55] at his worst

[9:56] because his worst comics

[9:57] are the ones

[9:57] where he's just throwing

[9:58] a parade of ideas

[10:00] at you

[10:00] and you're like,

[10:01] wait,

[10:01] hold on,

[10:02] hold on,

[10:02] stop and explain

[10:03] any of these to me.

[10:04] Hold on,

[10:05] stop and do something

[10:05] with one of these ideas

[10:06] and he's like,

[10:07] nope,

[10:07] sorry,

[10:07] got another idea

[10:08] coming up.

[10:09] Anyway,

[10:10] we're talking about

[10:10] the Fantastic Four

[10:11] specifically for this movie.

[10:13] They are,

[10:13] as people say all the time,

[10:14] they're not just a team

[10:15] of superheroes.

[10:15] You know what they are,

[10:16] guys?

Dan McCoy

[10:17] They're family

[10:17] and I wanted to get into this

[10:18] because like,

[10:19] so I have read

[10:21] a fair amount

[10:23] of old comics

[10:25] but certainly much less

[10:27] A fantastic fair amount.

[10:28] Certainly much less

[10:29] than Elliot,

[10:30] probably less than Stuart

[10:32] but I've read

[10:33] a lot of the early

[10:34] Fantastic Four books,

[10:36] like the very first ones

[10:38] in like,

[10:38] you know,

[10:38] one of those collections

[10:39] because I'm like,

[10:40] oh,

[10:40] well,

[10:40] you know,

[10:40] this is where

[10:41] it kind of started.

[10:43] I'm curious about it

[10:44] and I like the space age vibe

[10:47] of all of it

[10:48] and everyone talks about how,

[10:51] oh,

[10:51] the innovation was like,

[10:53] these are real people,

[10:55] right?

[10:55] They're like a family.

[10:57] They argue a lot

[10:59] but they love each other

[11:00] and I got to say

[11:01] that reading a lot of those

[11:02] first comics,

[11:03] I was put off

[11:04] by the Fantastic Four

[11:05] because they seem to argue

[11:06] a lot

[11:07] and maybe not like

[11:08] each other that much.

Stuart Wellington

[11:09] All the time.

[11:10] Yeah,

[11:10] Johnny Storm and Ben Grimm

[11:12] seem to have like

[11:13] a Bart Simpson

[11:13] and Homer Simpson relationship.

Elliott Kalan

[11:15] I mean,

[11:15] they are constantly

[11:16] fighting each other

[11:17] with their powers.

[11:18] Yeah.

[11:19] I think,

[11:20] Dan,

[11:20] so those earliest comics

[11:21] are pretty,

[11:22] I mean,

[11:23] there's an energy

[11:24] and excitement to them

[11:25] because it feels like

[11:25] something new is being done

[11:27] but it is a,

[11:28] it's the later ones,

[11:29] the later issues

[11:30] of that Kirby Lee run,

[11:31] kind of the middle of the run

[11:32] is the sweet stuff

[11:33] and I'm going to talk about that

[11:34] so I'm glad that you brought that up.

[11:35] It's a little bit like

[11:36] listening to the earliest Beatles albums

[11:37] and then listening to like

[11:38] Sgt. Pepper

[11:39] where you're like,

[11:40] oh,

[11:40] there's this energy

[11:40] and there's this excitement

[11:41] in the early ones

[11:42] but it doesn't have

[11:43] the ingenuity

[11:44] and it doesn't have

[11:45] the kind of like,

[11:46] this kind of like

[11:46] innovative beauty

[11:47] that the later work has,

[11:48] you know.

[11:49] but you're right,

[11:50] the,

[11:50] and I think

[11:51] when it first came on the scene

[11:52] in 1961,

[11:53] the difference was

[11:53] that the characters argued

[11:55] as opposed to the DC characters

[11:56] who are pretty,

[11:57] like,

[11:58] alternated between being

[11:59] incredibly pleasant

[12:00] and professional

[12:00] and doing terrible things

[12:02] to each other

[12:03] to teach each other lessons.

[12:04] Like,

[12:04] sorry,

[12:05] Jimmy Olsen,

[12:05] you have to marry a gorilla now

[12:07] because I'm teaching you

[12:07] a lesson about humility.

[12:09] like,

[12:11] the,

[12:12] I think it's,

[12:13] it's,

[12:14] the feeling,

[12:15] those comics

[12:15] really are for young people.

[12:18] The,

[12:18] especially those old ones

[12:19] where it's like,

[12:20] the emotions are really high

[12:21] all the time.

[12:21] There's an adolescent energy

[12:22] in some of those

[12:23] early Fantastic Four issues

[12:25] that's kind of similar

[12:26] to like Rob Liefeld's

[12:27] X-Force comics

[12:28] from the 90s

[12:29] where if you look at them,

[12:30] they are objectively

[12:30] kind of dumb.

[12:33] The art is objectively

[12:33] like,

[12:34] not technically right.

Stuart Wellington

[12:36] Oh,

[12:36] what do you need?

[12:37] Like,

[12:37] backgrounds and feet?

[12:38] Exactly.

[12:39] You have feet

Dan McCoy

[12:39] that look like

[12:40] they're on the ground.

[12:41] And maybe,

[12:42] and maybe people's thighs

[12:43] are not as big

[12:44] as their torsos.

[12:45] But,

Elliott Kalan

[12:45] but when you're reading

[12:46] that comic book

[12:47] when you're 13,

[12:47] you're a 13 or 14 year old boy,

[12:48] you're like,

[12:49] this is amazing.

[12:49] And it's the energy of it

[12:50] and the feel of it

[12:51] that's,

Dan McCoy

[12:51] that's really exciting about it.

[12:52] Give me a bunch of tiny lines

[12:54] all over everything.

[12:55] Exactly.

[12:55] That's what I want.

Elliott Kalan

[12:56] That's how I feel.

[12:56] Like,

[12:57] I'm covered in tiny lines

[12:58] and pouches

[12:58] full of I don't know what

[13:00] because I never see anyone use them

[13:01] that just change,

[13:02] I guess.

[13:03] And so,

[13:04] as the,

[13:05] and so,

[13:06] I think the mistake,

[13:07] if you're getting into

[13:08] this is an Elliot Kalin tip,

[13:09] the mistake is to start

[13:10] from the very beginning,

[13:11] Fantastic Four number one.

[13:12] Where you want to start,

[13:13] I think,

[13:14] is with this run

[13:15] of 10 issues

[13:16] in the middle

[13:16] of the Kirby Lee run.

[13:18] Kirby and Lee

[13:18] did this book together

[13:19] for 102 issues.

[13:20] And that's,

[13:21] it's one of the longest

[13:22] straight runs

[13:23] that a writer

[13:24] and artist

[13:24] have done together.

[13:25] There are longer ones

[13:25] and then you've got

[13:27] like Cerebus,

[13:27] which is 300 issues,

[13:28] but that's also a madman.

[13:30] Like,

[13:30] that's literally a person

[13:31] who's emotionally unbalanced

[13:32] doing a,

[13:33] Don't talk bad about Gerhard

Stuart Wellington

[13:35] or whatever.

Elliott Kalan

[13:35] Gerhard is,

[13:36] that's not Gerhard

[13:37] that I'm getting at.

[13:37] Gerhard,

[13:38] that's a job.

[13:38] For Gerhard,

[13:39] I was,

[13:40] this is,

[13:41] Gerhard,

[13:42] he's just a working guy

[13:43] doing backgrounds,

[13:43] you know.

[13:44] But between issue 43

[13:47] and 53

[13:47] is when Kirby's imagination

[13:50] in some ways

[13:50] is at his most fecund

[13:51] and he and Lee

[13:52] are really keyed in

[13:54] for the most part.

[13:55] About what they're doing.

[13:56] And that's a run

[13:57] that starts with the creation

[13:58] of the Inhumans,

[13:59] characters who had their shot

[14:00] with the Marvel Cinematic Universe

[14:01] and fucked it up

[14:03] and totally whiffed it,

[14:05] which makes sense

[14:05] because the Inhumans

[14:06] are a kind of weird,

[14:08] it's a weird batch of characters.

[14:09] I like them,

[14:10] but they're weird.

[14:11] They're kind of like

[14:12] a precursor of the Eternals,

[14:14] a weird batch of characters

[14:15] that I do not like particularly

[14:16] that also had their chance

[14:18] at the Marvel Universe

[14:18] and whiffed it.

[14:19] But the Eternals

[14:20] had less to work with.

[14:21] Anyway,

[14:22] in that run,

[14:22] you've got the Inhumans,

[14:24] you've got Black Panther

[14:25] at the end of it

[14:25] being introduced,

[14:26] you've got the best single issue

[14:28] I think of the run,

[14:29] This Man, This Monster,

[14:30] issue number 51,

[14:31] which is a heartbreaking story

[14:32] about Thing

[14:33] and about this mad scientist character

[14:35] who's just in it for one issue

[14:36] and gets a full human story.

[14:39] And you get,

[14:41] in between those stories,

[14:42] after the Inhumans

[14:43] and before This Man,

[14:44] This Monster,

[14:44] you get the Galactus trilogy,

[14:46] issues 48 through 50,

[14:49] March to May of 1966.

[14:50] I think that's when

[14:51] they were cover dated.

[14:52] That's the middle

[14:52] of this 10 issue amazing run

[14:54] that happens in this 102

[14:56] very foundational run.

[14:58] You have these three issues,

[14:59] the Galactus trilogy,

[15:00] which is a really fantastic story.

[15:02] And within that story,

[15:04] laid the groundwork

[15:04] for so much stuff

[15:05] that would be like

[15:06] the Marvel way

[15:07] of doing things.

[15:08] And again,

[15:08] it's kind of amazing

[15:09] that this Galactus story

[15:10] is now,

[15:10] it's been told once in a movie,

[15:12] but they kind of,

[15:12] again,

[15:12] they whiffed it.

[15:13] That it's-

[15:14] Because there's like

[15:14] a big cloud in that movie,

[15:16] right?

[15:16] He's a big cloud.

[15:16] He's not really a character.

[15:17] Yeah,

[15:18] yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[15:18] That's true

[15:19] to Jack Kirby's vision.

Elliott Kalan

[15:21] Yes.

[15:21] I mean,

[15:22] here's the thing

[15:22] about Jack Kirby.

[15:23] He is not subtle.

[15:24] So even if his villain

[15:25] was a big cloud,

[15:25] it would be a big cloud

[15:26] with a face,

[15:27] probably-

[15:27] Yeah,

[15:28] lightning bolts

[15:28] flying everywhere.

[15:29] Yeah,

[15:30] probably a mustache.

[15:31] I mean,

[15:31] like,

[15:31] the closest you have

[15:32] to that is Ego,

[15:32] the living planet,

[15:33] another Jack Kirby character

[15:34] who's literally a planet

[15:35] with a face with a beard.

[15:37] Yeah.

[15:38] But this Galactus story,

[15:40] this Galactus trilogy,

[15:42] is just this high point

[15:44] of the Silver Age of comics.

[15:47] And of the Fantastic Four

[15:48] and of the Marvel Universe.

[15:50] And guys,

[15:51] I want to ask,

[15:51] have you ever read this story?

[15:53] The Galactus trilogy,

[15:54] issues 48 through 50.

[15:55] Never read it.

[15:55] No,

[15:56] I haven't read it.

Dan McCoy

[15:57] I know that Galactus' deal

[15:58] is he's like,

[15:59] he sees planets,

[16:00] he's like,

[16:00] yum, yum,

[16:01] give me some.

Elliott Kalan

[16:02] Yeah,

[16:02] he has a seafood diet

[16:03] when it comes to planets.

[16:04] He sees planets

[16:04] and he wants to eat them.

[16:06] Yeah,

[16:06] and he does that.

[16:07] You did quote,

[16:07] so you did read it,

[16:08] so you know his famous catchphrase,

[16:09] yum, yum,

[16:09] give me some.

[16:10] Yeah,

[16:10] yeah,

Stuart Wellington

[16:10] and he's got little guys

[16:12] who go out and find the planets

[16:13] for him to nom down on.

Elliott Kalan

[16:15] He does have his Heralds,

[16:16] that's right.

[16:17] There's a funny comic book.

[16:19] Does he also have his

[16:19] Pinter?

[16:20] Yeah,

[16:21] Harold.

[16:22] Yeah,

[16:22] there's a lot,

[16:23] get all the Harold jokes in there,

[16:25] that's great.

Dan McCoy

[16:27] I ran out of Harold's

[16:28] after Pinter.

[16:29] I had one.

[16:30] Does he have a purple crayon?

Elliott Kalan

[16:32] Oh,

[16:32] there you go.

[16:32] Is that why his outfits all purple?

[16:34] That would be fantastic.

[16:35] Of course it's.

[16:35] I would love,

[16:36] this should be,

[16:36] if a fan hasn't done it,

[16:38] they should do a tie-in

[16:39] between Galactus

[16:40] and Harold

[16:41] and the purple crayon

[16:41] where it's his Harold

[16:42] with the purple crayon

[16:43] and he rides on that crayon.

[16:44] Anyway.

[16:44] Of course,

Dan McCoy

[16:45] Harold is spelled,

[16:46] of course,

[16:46] differently.

[16:47] It's like,

[16:48] you know,

[16:48] you have a trumpet

[16:49] before the king,

[16:50] Harold,

[16:51] is what I'm talking about.

Elliott Kalan

[16:52] To quote Smithers,

[16:54] when Burns asked him

[16:55] if Homer Simpson is related to,

[16:56] if this Homer Nixon

[16:57] is related to Richard Nixon,

[16:59] Smithers said,

[16:59] well,

[16:59] he spells and pronounces

[17:01] his name differently,

[17:01] sir.

[17:06] So,

[17:06] I'll give you the brief story

[17:10] of what happens in this.

[17:10] The brief version.

[17:12] Okay.

[17:12] The Galactus trilogy.

[17:13] There's this character

[17:14] they had already introduced

[17:15] called the Watcher.

[17:16] Guys,

[17:16] do you know what

[17:16] the Watcher does?

[17:17] He watches.

[17:18] He watches.

Stuart Wellington

[17:19] He's like,

[17:20] what if something happened?

Dan McCoy

[17:21] He's supposed to not interfere,

[17:23] but he does it all the time.

[17:24] Exactly.

[17:24] Is he the guy

Stuart Wellington

[17:25] with a pot on his head?

[17:28] No,

[17:28] that is the high evolutionary

[17:29] I think you're thinking of.

[17:31] I'm thinking,

[17:31] he's the guy,

[17:32] he's from What The?

Elliott Kalan

[17:34] Oh,

[17:34] that's Forbush Man,

[17:35] the guy who literally

[17:36] wears a pot on his head.

[17:37] Yeah,

[17:37] yeah,

[17:37] yeah.

[17:37] No,

[17:37] that's Forbush Man

[17:38] from What The,

[17:39] the humor magazine

[17:40] that Marvel put out.

[17:41] So he's not the Watcher.

[17:42] No,

[17:43] that's not the Watcher.

[17:43] The Watcher is the host

[17:44] of What If,

[17:45] the non-humorous magazine

[17:46] where What If is an excuse

[17:48] for you to see

[17:50] the Marvel characters

[17:50] getting killed

[17:51] in different ways

[17:52] every month,

[17:53] you know.

[17:53] So the Watcher,

[17:55] his name is Uatu.

[17:56] He is a big,

[17:58] bald baby

[17:58] in a toga.

[17:59] Yeah.

[18:01] He lives on the moon

[18:01] and he just watches

[18:02] the earth

[18:03] and he does not interfere.

[18:05] He has a strict rule

[18:06] of non-interference,

[18:08] which as Dan says,

[18:09] he interferes all the time.

[18:11] He constantly is interfering.

[18:12] And in this case,

[18:13] he does because

[18:13] he has to warn

[18:16] Galactus is coming.

[18:18] And they're like,

[18:18] what is this?

[18:18] And he's like,

[18:19] it's the worst thing

[18:19] in the world.

[18:20] And soon,

[18:21] they're greeted by

[18:22] the Herald of Galactus.

[18:24] That's right,

[18:25] the Silver Surfer.

[18:26] And as we learn,

[18:27] Galactus,

[18:27] he's a huge guy

[18:28] with this amazing helmet

[18:30] that he,

[18:30] it is one of the

[18:31] all-time great Kirby helmets.

[18:33] He and Hela

[18:34] have the best Kirby

[18:35] kind of headpieces.

[18:36] Yeah.

[18:36] And it's just,

[18:38] it's amazing.

[18:38] It's a fantastic look.

[18:39] Galactus is a-

[18:40] A Fantastic Four look?

[18:41] Yes.

[18:42] Galactus' original design

[18:43] is not the best.

[18:44] He has a big G on his chest

[18:45] and wears short sleeves

[18:46] and kind of a toga with bare,

[18:48] like a toga skirt

[18:49] with bare legs.

[18:50] But the next time

[18:50] you see Galactus,

[18:51] he's wearing pants

[18:52] and he doesn't have a G

[18:53] on his chest.

[18:54] And the design

[18:55] is just fantastic.

Stuart Wellington

[18:56] I also love that

[18:57] he's always just like standing.

[18:59] Yes.

[19:00] Galactus,

[19:00] so,

[19:01] what are we going to say, Dan?

Dan McCoy

[19:02] I'll tell you.

[19:02] Just,

[19:03] you know,

[19:04] my college,

[19:06] friend,

[19:07] Matt Byrd,

[19:08] has a Marvel,

[19:10] you know,

[19:11] reread podcast

[19:13] called Marvel Reread Club.

[19:15] They were just mentioning,

[19:16] I think Galactus

[19:17] just showed up

[19:17] for the first time,

[19:18] or maybe they were just

[19:19] mentioning him

[19:19] in an episode,

[19:20] but they pointed out

[19:21] the humor of,

[19:22] of course,

[19:23] a character arriving on Earth

[19:25] who is not from Earth

[19:26] having the initial

[19:28] in English

[19:29] of their first name

[19:30] on their shirt

Elliott Kalan

[19:34] And Marvel did the smart thing

[19:35] was just discarded

[19:36] the next time

[19:37] as opposed to what

[19:37] Superman has had to do

[19:38] over and over again

[19:39] where they're like,

[19:39] oh,

[19:39] that's a Kryptonian symbol.

[19:41] That's not an S.

Dan McCoy

[19:41] That's what their family does.

[19:42] Yeah.

[19:44] It's a,

[19:45] yeah,

[19:45] it means that he's down to clown.

[19:47] Yeah,

[19:48] that's right.

[19:48] It's like a pineapple,

[19:49] an upside down pineapple

Elliott Kalan

[19:51] So this,

[19:51] with that S,

[19:52] it's like,

[19:52] it's like wearing

[19:53] a red handkerchief

[19:55] in the back pocket

[19:56] of my pants

[19:56] that lets you know

[19:57] what I'm into.

[19:58] So,

[19:59] so,

[19:59] don't make a long story short.

[20:00] Crystal stuff.

[20:02] Yeah.

[20:03] Oh yeah,

[20:03] Superman is really

[20:04] into crystal stuff.

[20:05] That's true.

[20:06] That'd be so funny

[20:06] if he,

[20:07] if Superman is like,

[20:08] he's a,

[20:08] he's a great superhero,

[20:09] but he's always going

[20:10] to crystal shops

[20:11] and being like,

[20:11] what's the energy

[20:12] vibrations on this one?

[20:13] Yeah.

[20:14] This is,

Dan McCoy

[20:14] this is the,

[20:15] this is the crystal

[20:16] that has my dad in it

[20:17] and this is the one

[20:18] that goes in my butt.

[20:19] Yeah.

[20:19] Well,

[20:19] I just,

[20:20] and I love the idea

[20:20] that he,

Dan McCoy

[20:20] I don't like to get them

[20:21] mixed up.

Stuart Wellington

[20:22] That like,

[20:23] yeah,

[20:23] there's like crystal shop,

[20:25] like new age crystal shop owners

[20:26] that are like,

[20:27] yeah,

[20:27] there's this weird guy,

[20:28] Clark Kenney,

[20:28] who keeps coming around

[20:29] buying up crystals.

[20:30] Yeah.

[20:31] He seems so like,

Elliott Kalan

[20:32] straight lace.

[20:33] He's always got a,

[20:33] he's got a glass

[20:34] of crystal light

[20:35] in his hands,

[20:35] you know?

[20:36] Yeah.

[20:37] So Galactus,

[20:39] he's the devourer of worlds.

[20:40] He is a,

[20:41] an enormous giant

[20:42] who feeds off

[20:43] the life energy of planets.

[20:45] He has a machine

[20:45] he sets up

[20:46] that sucks the life energy

[20:48] out of planets,

[20:48] leaving them withered,

[20:49] lifeless husks,

[20:50] destroying all life on them.

[20:52] That's the only way

[20:52] he can survive.

[20:53] The silver surfer

[20:54] is his herald.

[20:55] He is a shining silver guy

[20:57] on a silver surfboard

[20:58] and this is Jack Kirby

[20:59] being really influenced

[21:00] by 60s kind of surf culture.

[21:02] He was,

[21:03] he was always kind of like

[21:04] picking things out of

[21:05] the zeitgeist

[21:06] and just throwing them

[21:06] into his books.

[21:07] And the silver surfer

[21:09] flies through space,

[21:10] finds planets

[21:11] for Galactus to eat.

[21:12] Galactus comes

[21:13] and sets up his,

[21:14] his machine,

[21:15] sucks all the life out of it

[21:16] and they go off

[21:17] to find another planet.

[21:18] And the watcher is like,

[21:19] I've become attached to Earth.

[21:20] I can't interfere

[21:21] but I'm going to warn you

[21:22] about this.

[21:22] And the,

[21:23] the amazing thing

[21:24] about this story

[21:25] is that the Fantastic Four

[21:26] try to fight Galactus

[21:27] and they cannot do it.

[21:29] He is just too powerful.

[21:30] And there's a scene

[21:31] where he's setting up

[21:32] his machine

[21:32] and the characters

[21:33] are literally like

[21:34] Mr. Fritt has just shaving.

[21:37] They're just kind of doing

[21:37] regular taking care

[21:38] of themselves stuff

[21:39] because they feel like

[21:41] there's nothing they can do.

[21:42] Like there's no,

[21:42] it captures a feeling

[21:44] of if anyone has ever been

[21:46] in a place

[21:47] where there is

[21:47] an enormous catastrophe

[21:49] and there's the moment

[21:50] after that catastrophe

[21:51] where you do not

[21:52] what to do with yourself.

[21:53] Like these comics

[21:53] kind of capture that feeling

[21:55] in a hyperbolic way.

[21:56] The same way that,

[21:57] this is a tangent,

[21:58] but the thing

[22:00] that hit me the hardest

[22:01] in terms of capturing

[22:02] the feeling of

[22:03] what it was like

[22:04] the day after September 11th

[22:06] or the night

[22:06] of September 11th.

[22:07] Being in New York City

[22:08] the night of September 11th

[22:10] was this issue,

[22:12] I think it's the second

[22:12] or third issue

[22:13] of the second League

[22:14] of Extraordinary Gentlemen volume

[22:15] where Martians have landed,

[22:17] they have set a village on fire,

[22:19] the League has shown up

[22:20] and now it's the night

[22:20] after that

[22:21] and they're just in and in

[22:22] and they don't know

[22:23] what to do with themselves.

[22:23] They're playing

[22:24] like kind of matchstick

[22:25] riddle games.

[22:26] They're just kind of

[22:26] sitting around.

[22:27] They don't know

[22:28] what to do with themselves.

[22:28] There's nothing they can do.

[22:29] That's what it feels like.

[22:30] And there's something

[22:32] enormous has happened.

[22:33] You cannot affect it

[22:33] but time is there.

[22:36] You're still living.

[22:37] And it captures that feeling.

Stuart Wellington

[22:39] Ultimately...

[22:40] Can you just keep

[22:40] the digressions

[22:41] on this very non-digression podcast

[22:42] to a minimum?

[22:44] You're right.

[22:44] Thank you.

Elliott Kalan

[22:45] I gotta be super streamlined

[22:46] as I explain this comic book

[22:48] from 60 years ago.

[22:49] You're right.

[22:50] Thank you, Stuart.

[22:52] Ultimately,

[22:53] two things happen

[22:54] that turn the tide

[22:55] for humanity.

[22:55] One is Alicia Masters,

[22:57] the blind sculptor

[22:58] who is Ben Grimm,

[22:59] the thing's girlfriend

[23:00] and is also

[23:01] the niece

[23:02] of the puppet master.

[23:03] We don't need

[23:03] to get into that.

[23:04] A hilariously...

[23:06] A villain who also looks

[23:07] like a big bald baby.

[23:08] He looks like a living

[23:09] kind of bald

[23:10] Howdy Doody style puppet.

[23:13] He's not in this storyline.

[23:15] She meets

[23:16] the Silver Surfer

[23:17] and convinces him

[23:18] that there's something

[23:19] worthwhile in humanity

[23:20] and that he should

[23:22] turn against Galactus

[23:23] and try to defend them.

[23:25] And he does this...

Stuart Wellington

[23:25] Do they bump into each other

[23:27] like a street fair

[23:28] or something?

[23:29] I don't remember

Elliott Kalan

[23:30] how they find it.

[23:31] He ends up in her apartment.

[23:32] I don't remember how.

[23:33] And Silver Surfer

[23:34] in this storyline

[23:35] but nowhere else

[23:36] is presented

[23:37] as a fairly inhuman figure

[23:38] who does not understand...

[23:40] doesn't understand

[23:41] life or emotion.

[23:42] Later on,

[23:43] as we'll talk about,

[23:44] Stan Lee decided

[23:45] that wasn't the way

[23:45] he wanted the character to be

[23:46] and he really changed

[23:47] the character drastically

[23:48] without Jack Kirby's

[23:49] input or knowledge

[23:50] in a way that

[23:51] really pissed

[23:52] Jack Kirby off.

[23:53] But both Jack Kirby

[23:55] and Stan Lee

[23:55] really took to

[23:57] in different ways

[23:57] and this is a character

[23:59] who Jack Kirby

[24:00] is just a full creator on.

[24:01] That literally

[24:02] he handed in the pages

[24:04] of the book

[24:04] to Stan Lee

[24:05] and Stan Lee was like,

[24:06] oh, there's a new character

[24:07] in this.

[24:08] I don't know

[24:08] who this character is.

[24:09] Like, what is this thing?

[24:10] Because Jack Kirby

[24:11] just decided

[24:12] Galactus is so big

[24:14] he needs someone

[24:14] to announce him.

[24:15] He needs a herald

[24:16] to come along before him.

[24:17] But anyway,

[24:19] Elisa Masters

[24:20] convinces the Silver Surfer

[24:21] that he should defy Galactus

[24:22] and the Watcher

[24:24] non-interfering as always

[24:26] helps Johnny Storm

[24:27] travel through dimensions

[24:29] on a quest

[24:30] that almost drives him insane

[24:32] at how minuscule humanity is

[24:35] at the scope of the universe.

[24:35] He comes back and goes,

[24:36] we're like,

[24:37] ants, ants!

[24:38] Like, he's almost mad.

[24:39] Like, he's almost bonkers.

[24:41] But he's able to retrieve

[24:43] an item

[24:44] called the Ultimate Nullifier,

[24:45] the most powerful weapon

[24:47] in the universe

[24:47] that can just,

[24:48] as long as you are holding it

[24:50] and focusing on entirely

[24:52] with all of your thought

[24:53] on one object,

[24:54] that object ceases to exist.

[24:55] Now, the problem is

[24:56] if your mind slips

[24:57] for just a moment,

[24:58] it eats up you

[24:59] and you cease to exist.

[25:00] No!

[25:01] That happens to Quasar

[25:02] many years later.

[25:02] I'd be really bad at that.

[25:03] It would be, yeah.

[25:04] Everyone would be bad at it.

[25:05] It's terrible.

[25:06] You've got to be

[25:06] just the biggest Zen master

[25:08] to use it.

[25:08] And Galactus is so afraid

[25:10] of the Ultimate Nullifier,

[25:11] which is this tiny little

[25:12] handheld device.

[25:13] It's another great Kirby design

[25:14] that he says,

[25:15] if you give that to me,

[25:15] I'll leave

[25:16] and I won't eat Earth.

[25:17] I just,

[25:17] I don't want you to have that.

[25:19] You're like children

[25:19] playing with a nuclear weapon.

[25:21] Like, you shouldn't have it.

[25:22] And at the end,

[25:23] he takes the Ultimate Nullifier

[25:24] and he leaves.

[25:25] Earth is saved

[25:25] and the Silver Surfer

[25:26] is damned by Galactus

[25:28] to be stuck on Earth.

[25:29] He says,

[25:30] you will never soar

[25:30] the space ways again

[25:32] And now,

[25:32] for a long time,

[25:33] Silver Surfer was stuck

[25:34] on the planet Earth

[25:35] and couldn't get back

[25:35] into space.

[25:36] And that's the Galactus trilogy.

Stuart Wellington

[25:38] He's had a bunch of other heralds.

Elliott Kalan

[25:41] And of course,

[25:41] he's had other heralds

[25:42] after that.

[25:42] He had,

[25:43] I forget if the one after that,

[25:44] I think it was Fire Lord.

[25:45] There was Air Walker.

[25:47] There was Nova,

[25:48] Frankie Ray.

[25:49] There was Terax.

[25:52] You know what?

[25:52] Terax might have been.

[25:53] No, I don't know.

[25:53] There's Terax,

[25:54] whatever his name is.

[25:57] There's Morgue,

[25:58] the Executioner

[25:59] He's had a ton of heralds.

[26:00] His heralds are always

[26:01] turning on him

[26:02] or becoming so dangerous

[26:04] that he has to destroy them

[26:06] But being his herald,

[26:09] Silver Surfer has a bunch of powers

[26:10] that we'll talk about

[26:11] when we talk about his origin,

[26:12] which I'm going to talk about

[26:12] very soon.

[26:13] So that's this original Galactus story.

[26:15] The Silver Surfer shows up.

[26:16] He's like,

[26:17] my boss is going to eat this planet.

[26:19] The Galactus shows up.

[26:20] Nobody can stop him.

[26:21] Silver Surfer is like,

[26:22] hey, you know what?

[26:22] Humans ain't bad.

[26:23] I'll try to protect them.

[26:24] And the heroes are like,

[26:26] look at this thing we have.

[26:27] And Galactus is like,

[26:27] put that down.

[26:28] Give it to me

[26:29] and I'll leave.

[26:30] And that's the basics of the story.

[26:31] But the way it's handled

[26:32] is great.

[26:33] And what's amazing is

[26:33] issue 51,

[26:35] the last issue,

[26:36] oh, issue 50, I'm sorry.

[26:36] Issue 50,

[26:37] last issue of the trilogy.

[26:38] The story ends with Galactus

[26:40] like halfway through the issue.

[26:41] And then Johnny Storm

[26:42] like goes to college.

[26:44] And it's about Johnny Storm

[26:45] going to college

[26:46] and meeting like

[26:46] his new roommate, Wyatt.

[26:48] And Wyatt,

[26:49] the football coach

[26:50] who really wants Wyatt

[26:51] to play on the team

[26:51] and Wyatt doesn't want to.

[26:52] And there's something amazing

[26:53] about this huge epic cosmic story

[26:55] that ends partway

[26:56] through the issue.

[26:57] And then it's like,

[26:57] yeah, well, life goes on.

[26:59] Johnny's got to go to college now.

[27:00] So it's really amazing.

Dan McCoy

[27:02] And so this-

[27:04] I mean, there might be a class there

[27:05] about defeating Galactus.

Elliott Kalan

[27:06] You never know.

[27:07] That's a good point.

[27:07] He should have taken it first.

[27:08] Yeah.

[27:09] And the thing that makes

[27:10] this story special

[27:10] in so many ways

[27:11] is partly the scope-

[27:13] Is the thing?

[27:13] Is the thing either.

[27:14] Partly the scope.

[27:15] Well, the issue that comes

[27:16] directly afterwards

[27:17] is an amazing thing story.

[27:18] And that is what makes

[27:19] that one special.

[27:19] This man, this monster.

[27:20] And the,

[27:22] which I highly recommend.

[27:23] If you're going to read

[27:23] one Fantastic Four issue,

[27:25] issue 51,

[27:26] this man, this monster

[27:26] is the one to do.

[27:27] It's just beautiful.

Stuart Wellington

[27:29] But-

[27:29] Is it a Fantastic Four,

[27:31] like that one Alan Moore

[27:32] issue of Swamp Thing

[27:34] is to Swamp Thing?

Elliott Kalan

[27:36] Which one issue of Alan-

[27:37] The one where he's-

[27:39] The sex one?

[27:39] No, the one where he's like,

Stuart Wellington

[27:41] he realizes that he's-

[27:43] The one.

[27:44] You know.

[27:44] The first issue?

[27:45] Spoiler.

[27:46] Yeah.

[27:46] The first issue of the run.

[27:47] Okay, I mean-

[27:48] Not technically the first issue

[27:50] of his run,

[27:51] but the first issue

[27:51] of the story that he-

[27:53] Of the Alan Moore storyline

[27:53] that he's doing.

Elliott Kalan

[27:55] The, yeah, I mean,

[27:57] it's different than that.

Dan McCoy

[27:58] I feel like it's different

[27:59] than that.

Elliott Kalan

[28:00] But you could say that

[28:01] with the-

[28:02] It's like,

[28:03] it is to that what

[28:04] the issue of Amazing Spider-Man

[28:05] is, I think it's 33,

[28:06] where Spider-Man lifts

[28:07] all that heavy junk

[28:09] off of him,

[28:09] where he's able to find

[28:10] the strength to save his aunt

[28:11] and save himself

[28:12] from this big heavy machine

[28:13] that's on top of him,

[28:14] which is the greatest moment

[28:16] to me in the entire

[28:17] Spider-Man run.

[28:18] I mean, that's weird though,

Dan McCoy

[28:20] because I feel like

[28:20] that's an example

[28:21] of a trope that you hate

[28:23] in general,

[28:24] which is,

[28:24] I just gotta want it more.

Elliott Kalan

[28:26] No, because the issue,

[28:27] it's the buildup.

[28:29] Because-

[28:29] Okay.

[28:29] So that,

[28:30] this is a huge digression.

[28:31] And then we'll do,

[28:32] I'll leave space for ads

[28:33] and then we'll come back

[28:33] and talk about the origins

[28:34] of these characters,

[28:35] what happened to them

[28:35] after that trilogy.

[28:36] But that issue,

[28:39] Dr. Octopus has trapped

[28:40] Spider-Man under this

[28:41] heavy thing of metal

[28:42] and the medicine

[28:43] that Aunt May needs

[28:44] to survive

[28:45] is just out of reach

[28:46] and the room is flooding.

[28:47] The stakes are so bad.

[28:49] Spider-Man is gonna drown

[28:50] and if he does,

[28:51] Aunt May is gonna die

[28:52] and he does not have

[28:52] the strength to do it.

[28:53] And the issue is,

[28:54] it's not that he is hurt

[28:56] and he suddenly is at full power

[28:57] and gets berserker strength.

[28:59] Instead it is,

[28:59] you have this,

[29:00] I think a five-page sequence

[29:01] where he is talking himself up to it

[29:03] and says,

[29:04] that's it,

[29:04] I can't do it,

[29:05] I failed.

[29:06] And thinking to himself,

[29:07] no,

[29:08] I've gotta do this.

[29:09] It's not like,

[29:10] it's my inner strength

[29:11] that's important.

[29:12] It's not my outer strength.

[29:13] I have this responsibility

[29:13] to Aunt May

[29:14] and I have to do it.

[29:15] And each page,

[29:16] there are fewer and fewer panels

[29:18] until finally the last page

[29:20] is this just one full panel splash page

[29:22] of him throwing the thing off

[29:23] going,

[29:23] I did it.

[29:24] And then afterwards,

[29:25] he's totally,

[29:25] he's like complete,

[29:27] he's weak

[29:27] and he's just in a,

[29:28] he's like in a daze

[29:30] as he's fighting his way through

[29:31] to get out.

[29:31] And it's the difference I think of

[29:33] in movies that happen super fast.

[29:35] And then when they did this scene

[29:36] in Spider-Man Homecoming,

[29:37] it happened super fast.

[29:39] It didn't work.

[29:39] And what works for me

[29:40] is the buildup.

[29:41] The buildup

[29:42] and the philosophy behind it.

[29:43] Because the thing I love

[29:44] about Spider-Man,

[29:44] what makes him the greatest character

[29:45] in fiction to me

[29:46] is partly that

[29:47] he has an ethic

[29:48] and a philosophy

[29:49] and you feel him living out

[29:50] those ethics

[29:50] and trying to make those ethics work

[29:52] in a world that makes it very hard

[29:54] to remain ethical

[29:55] and still be true to yourself

[29:56] and still be good

[29:57] to all the people in your life.

[29:58] It's a very,

[29:58] for lack of a better word to me,

[29:59] he's a very Jewish character

[30:00] in that way.

[30:01] Where he's about,

[30:02] these are the laws

[30:03] I have to live by

[30:03] and life makes it

[30:04] so incredibly hard

[30:06] for me to live by these laws

[30:07] and I have to square

[30:08] my responsibility

[30:09] to the rules

[30:10] that I have

[30:10] understand to be

[30:12] the right way to live

[30:13] and the reality

[30:13] of living in a world

[30:14] that does not operate

[30:16] by those rules

[30:16] and that's why those rules exist

[30:17] because if that was the way

[30:19] the world worked,

[30:20] we wouldn't need them

[30:21] but the world doesn't work

[30:21] that way so we need them.

[30:23] And so it is him

[30:23] working through that philosophy

[30:25] as he's regaining the strength

[30:27] in himself to do it

[30:28] as opposed to

[30:29] the thing you see in movies

[30:30] where it's like,

[30:30] oh, I've been beating all the shit

[30:32] and the bad guy goes,

[30:33] oh, now I'll kill your child

[30:35] and the person goes,

[30:36] no!

[30:36] And jumps up

[30:37] and suddenly is full of,

[30:38] you know,

[30:39] justice strength.

[30:40] Instead,

[30:40] it's how deep

[30:42] he has to dig in himself

[30:43] to find that strength.

[30:44] That's what makes it work for me.

[30:45] Anyway,

[30:46] so this man,

[30:48] this monster

[30:48] is the equivalent

[30:49] of that to me,

[30:50] you know,

[30:50] in terms of early Marvel stuff

[30:52] or single issue stories.

[30:54] So the thing about Galactus

[30:55] is he is a godlike figure.

[30:57] That's what makes him different

[30:58] from other supervillains.

[30:59] He's not a guy

[31:00] who wants to conquer the world.

[31:01] He is a force of nature.

[31:02] He is a cosmic force of nature

[31:04] that does what he does

[31:05] purely to survive

[31:06] and he constantly says

[31:07] this to everybody.

[31:08] He constantly says,

[31:09] I am neither good nor evil.

[31:10] I do what I do

[31:11] without pleasure.

[31:12] I merely do what I must

[31:13] to survive.

[31:13] He does it while holding

Stuart Wellington

[31:14] his hand out to people.

[31:16] Yeah,

[31:16] he's always holding his hand.

Elliott Kalan

[31:18] Jack Kirby loves drawing people

[31:19] with their hands out

[31:20] in like Roman oratorical poses,

[31:23] you know,

[31:23] he's always doing that.

[31:24] And there's a legend

[31:26] that for years

[31:27] there was this legend

[31:27] that Stan Lee said

[31:28] to Jack Kirby,

[31:29] give me a story

[31:29] where the FF fights God

[31:30] and that this is what

[31:31] he came up with.

[31:32] That's not true.

[31:33] But Kirby was definitely

[31:33] thinking on the level of like,

[31:35] we want a godlike figure.

[31:36] How do we get bigger

[31:37] with these stories?

[31:38] They're going to fight

[31:38] a force of nature

[31:39] who is not immoral

[31:41] but purely amoral.

[31:42] There's no morality

[31:43] to what he does.

Stuart Wellington

[31:44] Is that why he had a G

[31:45] on his chest

[31:45] because it stands for God?

Elliott Kalan

[31:47] I mean,

[31:47] maybe.

[31:47] Who knows?

[31:48] I mean,

[31:49] it's a...

[31:50] It stands for goof troop.

[31:52] Oh, yeah.

[31:53] It stands for gooning

[31:55] all day long.

[31:56] It stands for goofy movie

[31:57] comma the.

[31:58] That's what it stands for

[31:59] because he loves it.

[31:59] So that's the...

[32:01] I mean,

[32:01] he would love

[32:02] the songs of Powerline.

[32:04] It's true.

[32:05] So that's Galactus

[32:07] and Silver Surfer

[32:08] as they appear

[32:08] in that first story.

[32:09] Silver Surfer

[32:09] is kind of a...

[32:10] a kind of emotionless

[32:12] herald of Galactus

[32:13] who learns to find

[32:14] a little bit of feeling

[32:15] for humanity.

[32:15] Galactus is a force

[32:16] of nature

[32:17] but we don't learn

[32:19] the origins

[32:19] of either of these characters

[32:20] in this storyline.

[32:21] Where did they come from

[32:22] and how much of it,

[32:24] I think,

[32:24] might show up

[32:25] in the movie.

[32:26] We're going to discuss that

[32:28] after this break.

S4

[32:33] actor Samantha Sloyan

[32:35] has played a lot of characters.

[32:38] Bev Keen

[32:38] in Midnight Mass,

[32:39] Miss Rohrabacher

[32:40] in the new film

[32:41] The Life of Chuck,

[32:42] Lily,

[32:42] the mother who diligently

[32:43] watches over her son

[32:45] in the hit medical drama

[32:46] The Pit.

[32:47] But what character

[32:48] really made

[32:49] Samantha Sloyan

[32:50] feel seen?

[32:51] That is special agent

[32:53] Dale Cooper

[32:53] from Twin Peaks.

S5

[32:55] When you see somebody

[32:57] swing for the fences

[32:58] with almost like

[32:58] no sense of embarrassment

[33:01] or, you know,

[33:03] just with total abandon,

[33:04] I'm just captivated.

S4

[33:06] Join me,

[33:07] Jordan Grugiola,

[33:08] for that and more

[33:08] on the latest

[33:09] feeling seen

[33:10] from MaximumFun.org.

S5

[33:18] Hey.

[33:19] Hey there.

[33:20] Do you love reading smut?

[33:22] Erotica.

[33:23] Romance.

[33:24] Romanticy.

[33:25] Is your e-reader

[33:26] full of horny fairies

[33:28] and sexy shifters?

[33:29] Are your shelves

[33:30] bursting

[33:31] with enemies

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[33:34] We're reading smut,

[33:35] your new fated mate.

[33:37] Every other Friday,

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[33:41] who love them.

[33:43] Consider this

[33:44] our meet cute.

[33:45] Reading smut

[33:46] every other Friday

[33:47] on Maximum Fun.

Dan McCoy

[33:52] The Flophouse is sponsored

[33:54] in part by

[33:55] Aura Frames.

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[33:59] Father's Day.

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[35:33] Terms and conditions

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[35:35] And also,

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[38:57] back to the mini.

Elliott Kalan

[38:59] Okay, guys,

[39:00] we're back.

[39:00] Dan told you

[39:01] a bunch of ad stuff.

[39:03] Go and buy those products.

[39:04] Help us enrich

[39:05] the people who buy space

[39:06] on the podcast

[39:07] so they can do that.

[39:08] But,

[39:09] before you do that,

[39:10] let's talk a little bit more

[39:11] about these characters

[39:13] because here's where

[39:13] it gets interesting

[39:14] from a behind-the-scenes

[39:15] perspective.

[39:15] perspective also

[39:16] because one of the things

[39:18] I find most interesting

[39:19] about Marvel Comics

[39:20] is not just what's

[39:20] happening on the page

[39:21] but what's happening

[39:22] behind the page

[39:23] with the creators involved.

[39:24] I'm endlessly fascinated

[39:26] by the history

[39:27] of these people

[39:28] who made Marvel Comics

[39:30] and to a lesser extent

[39:31] to a comics

[39:31] but mostly Marvel Comics.

[39:33] This thing that

[39:34] at the time

[39:35] that these were being created

[39:36] was a,

[39:37] considered a cheapy

[39:39] kind of like

[39:39] trivial vulgar art form.

[39:41] Certainly not something

[39:42] where there was a lot

[39:43] of money in it

[39:44] unless you were

[39:44] the guy who owns

[39:45] the merchandising rights

[39:46] and even then

[39:46] it was not billions

[39:47] of dollars.

[39:48] You know,

[39:48] it was maybe

[39:49] hundreds of thousands

[39:50] of dollars

[39:51] and which has become

[39:54] so important

[39:55] to so many people

[39:55] who are now adults.

[39:56] But at the time

[39:57] if you asked

[39:58] most grown-ups,

[39:59] hey,

[39:59] what do you know

[40:00] about the Fantastic Four?

[40:01] They'd be like,

[40:01] what?

[40:02] I just came back

[40:03] from World War II

[40:04] and now I'm trying to,

[40:05] I've been working

[40:05] as an executive

[40:06] or like on an assembly line

[40:08] for 15 years

[40:09] or whatever,

[40:09] 20 years.

[40:10] I'm trying to raise

[40:11] a family.

[40:11] I don't understand

[40:12] what's going on

[40:12] with the youth today.

[40:14] I don't have any,

[40:15] President Kennedy

[40:15] was killed a couple years ago.

[40:16] I don't have any time

[40:17] for Galactus.

[40:18] What is that?

[40:19] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[40:20] And the amount of,

[40:21] the amount of-

Stuart Wellington

[40:22] I got a moon landing

[40:23] to prepare for.

Elliott Kalan

[40:24] Exactly.

[40:25] The amount of effort

[40:26] that was being put

[40:27] into these books

[40:28] that were essentially

[40:29] at the time considered

[40:31] except by Jack Kirby

[40:31] who thought this work

[40:32] is going to live forever,

[40:34] essentially throw away

[40:35] juvenile entertainment.

[40:36] So, they came up

[40:37] with this Silver Surfer,

[40:38] Jack Kirby comes up

[40:39] with this Silver Surfer character

[40:39] and Stanley instantly

[40:41] is like,

[40:42] I love this character.

[40:44] This is my favorite character.

[40:45] I want to do a whole book

[40:46] of the Silver Surfer.

[40:47] I'm going to write it.

[40:48] It's going to be my version

[40:49] of the character.

[40:50] And you know what?

[40:50] My version of the character

[40:51] is not a construct

[40:53] created by the Galactus

[40:54] who learns how to be human,

[40:56] learns how to have emotions,

[40:57] which was kind of,

[40:58] it seems like

[40:58] was Jack Kirby's original plan.

[41:00] My version is a man

[41:01] who sold his soul

[41:02] to the devil

[41:02] as a sacrifice

[41:03] to save his world

[41:04] and as a sort of

[41:05] Jesus Hamlet figure

[41:07] endlessly soliloquizing

[41:08] about why can't humanity

[41:10] get along?

[41:11] Why is humanity

[41:11] so full of hatred

[41:12] and bloodshed?

[41:14] Stanley's like,

[41:14] all the stuff I feel

[41:15] as a mid-century

[41:17] American liberal

[41:18] about why can't we

[41:19] just love each other

[41:20] despite the colors

[41:21] of our skin?

[41:22] Silver Surfer

[41:22] is my vehicle for that.

[41:24] And so,

[41:25] he starts doing

[41:26] a Silver Surfer comic

[41:26] with a different artist,

[41:27] John Buscema,

[41:28] and Jack Kirby,

[41:30] who had big plans

[41:30] for the Silver Surfer

[41:31] after his appearances

[41:32] in Fantastic Four,

[41:33] was like,

[41:33] was devastated by this.

[41:35] that this character

[41:36] was taken away from him

[41:36] and also that

[41:37] the version of the character

[41:38] that now became

[41:39] continuity canon

[41:40] was not his version.

[41:41] So,

[41:42] what's the Stan Lee version

[41:43] which became canon?

[41:44] Well,

[41:45] the Silver Surfer we learn

[41:46] was Noren Rad,

[41:48] an inhabitant,

[41:49] an inhabitant of the-

[41:50] Oh,

[41:50] close to what I said.

[41:52] Close to what we said,

[41:52] Roran Nadd.

[41:53] Yeah,

[41:53] and the inhabitant-

[41:55] Roran Nads,

[41:57] that's what I've got.

[41:57] Yeah,

[41:58] his original power

[41:59] was Roran Nads.

[42:00] Yeah.

[42:00] There's a villain

[42:01] named Angar the Screamer

[42:02] who's kind of

[42:03] a psychedelic hippie

[42:04] and it would be funny

[42:04] if Angar the Screamer's

[42:06] hippie power

[42:06] was Roran Nads.

[42:07] There's like heavy vibrations

[42:09] that come out of his testicles

[42:11] that debilitate people.

[42:13] Noren Rad lives

[42:14] on the planet Zen La.

[42:15] He is in love

[42:16] with Shalabal

[42:17] and Galactus

[42:18] comes to eat Zen La

[42:20] and to save his love

[42:21] and to save his planet.

[42:22] Noren Rad says,

[42:23] spare my planet

[42:24] and I will agree

[42:25] to be your herald

[42:26] and to find

[42:27] other planets for you.

[42:28] I will do the work

[42:29] so that you can just focus on

[42:30] chomping down

[42:31] those celestial orbs

[42:33] that you love to eat so much

[42:34] and he kind of loses humanity.

[42:36] He gains what's called

[42:37] the power cosmic,

[42:38] an ill-defined power

[42:40] that allows him to do

[42:41] pretty much anything.

Dan McCoy

[42:43] Yeah,

[42:43] I remember trying

[42:44] to get my brother

[42:45] to explain

[42:45] the Silver Surfer to me

[42:47] and he said,

[42:47] well,

[42:47] he's got the power cosmic

[42:49] and I'm like,

[42:49] what's that?

[42:50] Was he always shiny

Elliott Kalan

[42:51] or is that power cosmic?

[42:53] That's power cosmic.

[42:54] He gains this shiny covering

[42:55] over his body

[42:56] that allows him

[42:57] to survive in deep space.

[42:58] Was he always a surfer

[42:59] or was that power cosmic?

[43:01] That's a good question.

[43:02] I've never seen a story

[43:03] where he's surfing on Zen La.

[43:04] The board is part of his power.

[43:06] Okay.

[43:06] And so he's always,

[43:08] he can always call

[43:09] the board to himself.

[43:09] One of his catchphrases

[43:10] is to me my board

[43:12] and then the surfboard

[43:13] will come to wherever he is.

[43:15] He is,

[43:15] I love the Silver Surfer.

[43:16] I think he's a great character.

[43:17] I like Stan Lee's origin for him

[43:19] and I love those issues

[43:20] even though

[43:20] it gets very tiring

[43:22] to see Silver Surfer

[43:23] just constantly,

[43:24] page after page

[43:25] of him soaring around

[43:26] in the air going like,

[43:27] oh,

[43:27] if only man could learn

[43:29] to learn love.

[43:30] Why is there so much war

[43:31] on this earth?

[43:32] You know?

Dan McCoy

[43:32] I love your elderly version

[43:34] of this.

[43:35] Oh,

[43:35] if only man could learn love.

Elliott Kalan

[43:38] Yeah.

[43:38] And he is very much

[43:40] a Jesus figure

[43:40] in the Marvel Universe,

[43:41] understandably.

[43:42] One of his main villains

[43:43] is Mephisto

[43:43] who is one of Marvel's

[43:45] stand-ins for Satan.

[43:46] He's a demon who wants,

[43:47] devil who wants

[43:48] to get Silver Surfer's soul.

[43:49] So,

[43:51] becomes that.

[43:51] He becomes this guy

[43:52] who over time

[43:54] has become a mainstay

[43:55] of the Marvel Universe.

[43:55] He's had his own title

[43:56] for a long time.

[43:57] There's been great runs

[43:58] on his title.

[43:59] Steve Englehart

[43:59] had a great run.

[44:00] There's a run by Ron Mars

[44:02] and Ron Lim

[44:02] that is fantastic.

[44:04] Jim Starlin,

[44:05] one of my favorite

[44:05] Marvel creators,

[44:06] he had a run

[44:07] on Silver Surfer.

[44:07] There's a lot of great runs.

[44:08] He's a big part

[44:09] of the Infinity Gauntlet story

[44:11] in the original comics

[44:12] even though he's not

[44:13] in the movies.

[44:14] And Surfer and Thanos

[44:15] and Adam Warlock

[44:16] are three characters

[44:17] that I love

[44:18] who are kind of always

[44:19] bumping into each other

[44:20] and revolving around each other.

[44:21] So,

[44:22] he's one of the linchpins

[44:23] of the cosmic world

[44:25] that Marvel has.

[44:27] Marvel has two types of worlds.

[44:28] There's the world

[44:29] outside your window

[44:30] which is the New York

[44:31] of the Marvel Universe

[44:32] where it's just like

[44:33] you're in New York

[44:34] but there's superheroes

[44:34] and then the cosmic universe

[44:36] where there's

[44:36] constant energy bolts

[44:38] that are thousands

[44:39] of miles long

[44:39] flying around

[44:40] and gods

[44:41] and strange

[44:42] demigod characters

[44:43] and embodiments

[44:44] of abstract principles

[44:46] and forces

[44:46] that see humanity

[44:49] as microscopic beings

[44:50] and so forth.

[44:51] And the third one

[44:52] is the Savage Land, right?

[44:53] Well,

[44:54] I guess you could say

[44:54] then it's the

[44:55] what you'd call

[44:57] kind of like

[44:57] uncharted lands

[44:58] and that's the kind of stuff

[44:59] that Kirby was always

[45:00] coming up with

[45:00] and there you'd have

[45:01] like the Savage Land

[45:02] or Wakanda

[45:03] Black Panther's nation

[45:05] which is secretly

[45:06] in those early comics

[45:07] secretly this technological

[45:08] wonderland

[45:09] that the rest of the world

[45:10] doesn't know about.

[45:10] So,

[45:11] I guess those are

[45:11] those three things.

[45:12] The Savage Land

[45:13] for anyone who doesn't know

[45:13] is the part of Antarctica

[45:14] that aliens put a

[45:15] protective field over

[45:16] so it's always warm there

[45:18] and dinosaurs

[45:18] still live there

[45:19] and the X-Men

[45:20] seem to end up

[45:21] in the Savage Land

[45:22] all the time

[45:22] for some reason

[45:23] and there's a great

[45:25] X-Men Savage Land

[45:26] storyline

[45:26] in the John Byrne

[45:28] Chris Claremont run

[45:29] where Sauron comes back.

[45:30] Sauron,

[45:31] a character dear to my heart

[45:32] because my everlasting

[45:33] legacy in comic books

[45:34] is one panel

[45:35] of Sauron

[45:36] talking to Spider-Man.

[45:38] So,

[45:39] Jack Kirby

[45:40] had this idea

[45:41] of what Silver Surfer is.

[45:43] Stanley changes it.

[45:44] The same thing

[45:44] is not going to happen

[45:45] with Galactus,

[45:46] right?

[45:46] Right, Dan?

Dan McCoy

[45:48] I feel like you're

[45:49] setting me up for a trap.

Elliott Kalan

[45:51] It is a trap, Dan.

[45:52] The same thing

[45:52] happens with Galactus.

[45:54] Uh-oh.

[45:54] There's a series

[45:55] of Thor comic books

[45:56] where for some reason

[45:57] they decided

[45:57] that this fantastic

[45:58] four villain Galactus

[45:59] should have his origin

[46:00] told in Thor.

[46:00] They're trying to make

[46:01] Thor more cosmic.

[46:02] He goes out in space a lot.

[46:03] And they have this

[46:04] Thor storyline

[46:05] where he learns

[46:05] Galactus' origin.

[46:07] Yeah, what's the story here?

[46:09] Do you guys know

[46:09] what Galactus' origin is?

Dan McCoy

[46:11] No, he's like a big dude.

[46:12] He's a big guy, right?

Elliott Kalan

[46:13] He is a big guy.

Dan McCoy

[46:16] He's a big dude.

[46:17] He's a big purple dude.

[46:17] Did he not start out big?

Stuart Wellington

[46:19] Is he like the smallest dude

[46:21] on his planet

[46:22] where he's from

[46:22] and that made him

[46:23] want to eat plants

Dan McCoy

[46:24] and be big?

[46:25] Even Dorf started small.

[46:27] Yeah, even Galactus

Elliott Kalan

[46:28] started small.

[46:28] So, Galactus,

[46:29] he starts out

[46:30] as a scientist

[46:30] named Galan

[46:31] on the planet Ta.

[46:33] And this is

[46:33] not in our universe

[46:34] but in the universe

[46:35] before our universe.

[46:37] And much like

[46:38] in the Superman origin

[46:39] where his father Jor-El

[46:41] is like,

[46:42] Krypton's gonna blow up

[46:43] and everyone's like,

[46:44] nah.

[46:44] Galan, I believe,

[46:45] has an understanding

[46:46] that the universe

[46:47] is coming to an end.

[46:48] There are these explorers

[46:49] that are with him.

[46:49] I'm trying to remember it.

[46:50] I should have read it

[46:51] before this episode.

[46:52] The point is,

[46:53] he is the only survivor

[46:54] of the previous universe

[46:55] before our own

[46:56] and the spaceship

[46:57] that he's in

[46:58] that saves his life

[46:59] becomes a sort of

[47:00] cosmic egg.

[47:01] And when he emerges

[47:02] from it,

[47:03] he is Galactus.

[47:05] And the Watcher

[47:06] sees all this

[47:07] and is,

[47:07] you know,

[47:08] has,

[47:08] and...

[47:08] He's like,

[47:09] what?

[47:09] Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[47:11] He's like,

[47:11] whoa, whoa, whoa.

[47:14] And the...

[47:14] Yeah.

[47:16] That's why

[47:16] he doesn't wear

[47:17] wigs anymore

[47:18] because it just

[47:19] keeps flipping off.

[47:20] Yeah, yeah.

[47:20] His sunglasses,

[47:22] he keeps flipping backwards

[47:23] and you just see

[47:23] the Watcher's feet

[47:24] in the panel.

[47:25] And the Watcher

[47:27] had already had

[47:28] his origin messed with.

[47:29] Jack Kirby's idea

[47:30] for the Watcher,

[47:30] I think,

[47:31] dovetailed to Galactus' origin.

[47:32] Stanley set up,

[47:33] oh, the Watcher

[47:34] has this origin

[47:35] where the Watchers

[47:36] were an advanced race,

[47:37] they met this primitive race

[47:38] and they gave them

[47:39] modern technology

[47:40] and that race

[47:41] used it for weapons

[47:42] and destroyed themselves

[47:43] in nuclear war.

[47:44] And the Watcher said,

[47:45] we are never doing this again.

[47:46] We are never interfering.

[47:48] We're just gonna watch

[47:48] from now on.

[47:49] And there's a whole lot of us.

[47:50] We're a whole species

[47:51] of Watchers.

[47:52] We're all big,

[47:53] bald babies and togas.

[47:54] We're just gonna watch things.

[47:55] We're the ultimate voyeurs.

[47:57] We never get involved.

[47:58] Jack Kirby starts doing,

[47:59] and he does that

[47:59] in another comic

[48:00] that Jack Kirby

[48:00] wasn't working on.

[48:01] Jack Kirby starts doing

[48:02] Galactus' origin

[48:03] and it seems like

[48:04] they've had to

[48:05] reconstruct it

[48:06] based on the fact

[48:07] that these comics

[48:08] were obviously

[48:09] very cut up,

[48:10] obviously very changed.

[48:10] It seems like

[48:11] he saw Galactus' origin

[48:12] as Galactus

[48:14] survives,

[48:15] you know,

[48:15] is the survivor

[48:16] of some cataclysm.

[48:17] He's nursed back

[48:18] to health

[48:18] or rescued

[48:19] by Uatu

[48:21] and Galactus

[48:22] then becomes

[48:23] this devourer of worlds,

[48:25] this cosmic

[48:25] force of destruction

[48:26] and that's when

[48:27] Uatu is like,

[48:28] I'm never gonna do

[48:29] anything again.

[48:30] It's too dangerous.

[48:31] I will just become

[48:31] the Watcher

[48:32] and there's just one of me

[48:33] and apparently he may,

[48:34] it seems like Jack Kirby

[48:35] drew and wrote

[48:36] this whole story

[48:37] was like,

[48:38] Jack,

[48:38] are you not reading

[48:39] the other books?

[48:39] Like,

[48:40] this doesn't square

[48:40] what we already said

[48:41] for the Watcher

[48:42] and they had to

[48:42] remake everything.

[48:43] So the point here

[48:44] is Galactus,

[48:45] he's the last survivor

[48:46] from the previous universe,

[48:47] he's in a big cosmic egg,

[48:48] turns him into the big

[48:49] purple guy

[48:50] in armor

[48:51] who travels around

[48:53] the universe

[48:53] having to eat things

[48:54] and by doing that

[48:55] he has become

[48:55] a force of balance

[48:57] in the universe

[48:58] and what that means

[48:59] exactly

[49:00] has been described

[49:01] differently

[49:02] in different comics.

[49:02] In the comic book

[49:03] Earth X,

[49:04] which is a great

[49:04] miniseries set

[49:05] in the future

[49:05] of the Marvel Universe,

[49:06] it's posited that

[49:08] celestials inject their eggs

[49:10] into the center of planets

[49:11] and in order to keep them

[49:12] from overpopulating

[49:13] the universe,

[49:13] Galactus eats the planets

[49:15] that have celestial eggs

[49:16] in them

[49:16] but he doesn't know this.

[49:18] At one point,

[49:19] Galactus is seen

[49:20] kind of shaking hands

[49:20] with eternity

[49:21] and infinity,

[49:22] these embodiments

[49:23] of the very basic reality

[49:25] of the existence

[49:26] as it's in itself

[49:27] and they're like,

[49:28] ah,

[49:28] hail brother,

[49:29] hail sister,

[49:30] that Galactus

[49:30] is the third point

[49:31] of this trinity somehow.

[49:34] He's just a force

[49:34] of nature in the universe.

[49:35] At one point,

[49:36] Galactus,

[49:37] in the 80s,

[49:37] Galactus gets caught

[49:38] and put on trial

[49:39] for eating the Skrull

[49:41] homeworld,

[49:42] I think it is

[49:42] and Reed Richards

[49:43] defends him on trial

[49:44] saying like,

[49:45] he's a force of nature.

[49:46] Like,

[49:47] you can't put him on trial.

[49:48] You have to,

[49:48] you know,

[49:49] I'm sorry,

[49:50] Reed Richards is on trial

[49:52] for saving Galactus' life.

[49:53] Galactus comes to Earth

[49:54] and he's dying

[49:55] and Reed Richards is like,

[49:56] no,

[49:56] he's necessary

[49:57] for balancing the universe

[49:57] and we can't let someone die.

[49:59] So they save his life

[50:00] and then Reed Richards

[50:01] is put on trial

[50:02] and the Watcher

[50:03] shows everybody

[50:03] that Galactus

[50:05] is necessary

[50:05] in a sort of

[50:06] cosmic trip.

[50:07] Everyone has the same trip.

Stuart Wellington

[50:08] If you're going to blame anyone,

[50:09] blame the Super Skrull

[50:11] oh,

Elliott Kalan

[50:11] not again.

[50:12] That guy,

[50:13] Calart,

[50:13] he's such a dick

[50:14] and they do a neat thing there

[50:16] where they say

[50:17] Galactus is such a huge concept

[50:19] that he appears

[50:20] to every species

[50:21] as one of their own.

[50:22] that's why he looks like

[50:23] a guy in a helmet

[50:24] to us

[50:25] is because we just...

[50:26] With a big G

[50:27] for guy.

[50:28] Exactly,

[50:28] for guy.

[50:29] The same way

[50:29] that we interpret God

[50:30] as a human

[50:31] because we think of things

[50:32] from a human point of view,

[50:33] we interpret Galactus as one.

[50:34] Anyway,

[50:35] the point is

[50:35] Galactus would show up

[50:37] with a different origin later,

[50:38] with his own origin

[50:39] that was changed.

[50:40] Galactus,

[50:40] for a while,

[50:41] they were like,

[50:41] this guy is super powerful.

[50:42] What do we do with him?

[50:44] Here's what you do with him.

[50:45] You use him over and over again

[50:46] until he becomes

[50:47] not as special

[50:48] as he once was

[50:49] and he just becomes

[50:50] just another dude

[50:51] that is coming by Earth

[50:52] every now and then

[50:53] to eat things

[50:53] or to have adventures.

[50:55] Is it time to eat yet?

Dan McCoy

[50:56] Can you eat this time?

Elliott Kalan

[50:58] Galactus Hungi,

[50:58] can me eat Earth now?

[51:00] But there's still

[51:01] a certain mystique to him

[51:02] and so here's what

[51:03] I want to talk about now

[51:04] as we round out this episode.

[51:06] That's what you want to talk about?

[51:07] You're not there yet?

[51:08] As we've already gone too long is...

[51:09] Our main story tonight.

[51:11] Wow.

[51:12] Well, this was an explainer episode.

[51:13] No, I'm curious about

[51:14] what they're going to do

[51:14] in the movie

[51:15] because in the movie,

[51:16] I think what they have to capture,

[51:17] I think,

[51:18] is the feel

[51:18] of the enormity

[51:20] of this threat

[51:20] and that he is not just

[51:21] like a cool character

[51:22] but that he is on a different

[51:24] plane of existence

[51:25] from all these other ones

[51:25] and I feel like

[51:26] there's a shot in the trailer

[51:27] where you just see Galactus'

[51:28] feet walking down a street

[51:32] I don't know if this is

[51:32] quite doing it.

[51:33] Like, I don't want to see him walk.

[51:35] I don't want to see him

[51:35] move the way he does.

[51:36] No, you want to see him

[51:37] like stand basically.

[51:38] There's a moment

[51:39] in the original comics

[51:40] where they knock him off a building

[51:41] that's it,

[51:42] we knocked him over.

[51:43] We defeated him.

[51:43] We were able to knock him down

[51:44] and instead of clamoring

[51:46] to his feet,

[51:48] gravitates

[51:48] and then turns

[51:50] so that he is now upright

[51:52] oh shit,

[51:52] the guy didn't even have to

[51:53] use his hands to get up.

[51:55] Like, that's how powerful

[51:55] this guy is.

[51:56] Knocking him over

[51:57] didn't do anything.

Dan McCoy

[51:58] How is he small enough

[51:59] to be on top of a building?

[52:00] Was this like

[52:01] a giant space building?

Elliott Kalan

[52:02] No, it's just,

[52:03] he's, I think,

[52:04] that you have to imagine

[52:06] that he is,

[52:07] he can,

[52:08] he's not even just kind of,

[52:09] his body's not even

[52:09] just kind of resting on it.

[52:10] Either he is

[52:11] levitating always

[52:12] or he is so in control

[52:13] of his own matter

[52:14] that he can,

[52:15] he can,

[52:16] he can,

[52:16] he can control

[52:17] how he affects that,

[52:18] that matter around him.

[52:19] But anyway,

[52:20] they're,

[52:21] so I'm hoping

[52:22] they can capture that

[52:23] because the,

[52:24] the big changes

[52:25] that they're making

[52:25] in this movie are,

[52:27] it's coming in a world

[52:28] that is post,

[52:29] for us,

[52:30] the audience,

[52:31] post Thanos

[52:32] and the Infinity Gauntlet

[52:33] and all that stuff.

[52:34] You know,

[52:34] it is,

[52:34] it is no longer,

[52:35] life is no longer

[52:36] the biggest thing

[52:36] that you can imagine.

[52:37] When someone has

[52:38] snuffed out

[52:39] half the universe

[52:40] with,

[52:41] by snapping their fingers,

[52:42] a big dude

[52:42] who eats just Earth

[52:43] is,

[52:44] I think they're gonna have

[52:45] to work to get that,

[52:45] that,

[52:46] the enormity of that.

[52:46] But also,

[52:47] you can tell from the trailers,

[52:50] is a lady now

[52:51] and I want to know

[52:52] how you guys

[52:52] feel about that

[52:53] because I,

[52:54] I'm not online very much.

[52:55] I don't deal with

[52:56] discourse very much

[52:57] but I am totally

[52:58] unaware of any discourse

[53:00] of people being

[53:00] upset

[53:01] that the Silver Surfer

[53:02] is a woman

[53:03] in the movie.

[53:03] I mean,

Stuart Wellington

[53:03] I like Julia Garner.

Elliott Kalan

[53:05] Yeah,

[53:05] and also like,

[53:06] he plays the character.

[53:07] I mean,

[53:07] I love Julia Garner.

[53:08] I was trying to,

[53:09] I was trying to get her

[53:09] for a project

[53:10] and I could not.

[53:11] But the,

[53:11] but the,

[53:12] but she,

[53:13] but also,

[53:13] I have absolutely

[53:15] no issue with this

[53:16] and I feel like,

[53:17] I wonder if other people

[53:18] have no issue

[53:19] because they don't care

[53:20] that much about

[53:20] the Silver Surfer.

[53:21] Understandable.

[53:22] He's a character I love

[53:23] but he's never been like

[53:24] a top popular character.

[53:26] He's one of these characters

[53:26] who often has his own series

[53:28] but cannot support

[53:30] his own series

[53:31] for as long as others.

[53:32] He's like Doctor Strange

[53:33] or Daredevil that way

[53:34] where his book

[53:35] is always getting canceled

[53:35] and relaunched.

[53:37] Or if it is just,

[53:38] do we live in a world now

[53:39] where this kind of stuff

[53:41] doesn't matter to people as much

[53:42] which would be great.

[53:44] What do you guys think?

Dan McCoy

[53:44] I don't think we live in that world.

[53:46] If you've been paying attention

[53:47] to the news,

[53:48] I think that we live.

Elliott Kalan

[53:49] So a theory that was floated

[53:51] a long time ago

[53:52] that really struck with me

[53:53] was people getting so mad

[53:56] about like the Zack Snyder cut

[53:57] and this character being like this

[53:58] in this movie

[53:59] from young men

[54:01] who feel like they have no control

[54:03] over their own lives

[54:03] and so they feel like

[54:04] they can exert control

[54:05] over this as fans.

[54:07] And maybe it's a side effect

[54:08] of those guys having won

[54:09] and America now being a

[54:11] misogynist authoritarian shit show

[54:14] that they no longer care as much

[54:15] what gender the Silver Surfer has.

[54:17] Because now they feel finally

[54:19] that they can take out

[54:20] their ire and their anger

[54:21] at the real people

[54:23] whose genders they're mad about.

[54:24] You know, I don't know.

[54:25] I wonder if that's part of it.

[54:26] Is that the world,

[54:27] has the world gotten bad enough

[54:28] that people realize

[54:29] how unimportant

[54:30] the Silver Surfer's gender is?

[54:32] But maybe you guys have seen

[54:33] more stuff online than me.

Dan McCoy

[54:34] No, I try not to go there anymore.

[54:38] Okay.

[54:38] It makes me sad.

Stuart Wellington

[54:39] Dan doesn't like being online anymore.

Dan McCoy

[54:42] No, I mean, it's true.

[54:43] It's been very good

[54:44] because you know what

[54:45] I've done more of recently?

[54:47] Reading books.

[54:48] Reading books is great.

Elliott Kalan

[54:50] I love reading books.

[54:51] Books are my second favorite thing

[54:52] after my family.

[54:52] It's like a movie in your mind, right?

[54:54] Yeah.

[54:54] It is.

[54:55] Because Dan,

[54:55] I want to say that

[54:56] this is not having to do with this.

[54:57] This might be too personal.

[54:58] That makes me really happy

[54:59] that you are no longer

[55:00] in the stage of your life

[55:01] where you feel the need

[55:02] to be online

[55:03] and respond to

[55:05] hardcore right-wing people

[55:07] on Twitter

[55:07] with an image

[55:08] of someone's boobs

[55:09] painted like

[55:10] to be Garfield's face,

[55:11] which you were doing

[55:12] quite a bit of at one point.

Dan McCoy

[55:14] That was during

[55:14] the first Trump years.

[55:17] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[55:18] I mean,

[55:19] I'm not saying

[55:19] I'm never online

[55:20] or I never get cranky

[55:22] with anything,

[55:23] but it's a lot less

[55:25] because I do it

[55:26] for my own health.

Elliott Kalan

[55:28] Okay, that's fair.

[55:29] Avoid it.

[55:29] And maybe that's

[55:30] the most important thing

[55:30] to explain in this issue,

[55:32] in this episode.

[55:32] As we go way longer

[55:34] than I meant to,

[55:35] talking on and on

[55:35] and on about

[55:36] Silverstone and Fantastic Four,

[55:36] and I apologize to everybody

[55:37] if I was just boring you

[55:39] this whole time

[55:39] because I find these,

[55:40] this character's fascinating.

[55:41] I find the backstory

[55:41] behind them fascinating.

[55:42] Yeah.

[55:42] I'm really curious

[55:43] how they're going to be

[55:44] handled in this.

[55:44] I'm not excited

[55:46] about the movie necessarily,

[55:47] I think because there's

[55:48] so many more important

[55:49] things in life,

[55:50] but I am curious about it

[55:52] and I think maybe

[55:52] that's the lesson

[55:53] of all this

[55:54] is that within

[55:55] the Marvel Universe,

[55:56] the coming of Galactus,

[55:57] the story of the Silver Surfer,

[55:59] the introduction

[56:00] of the Fantastic Four

[56:00] into the Marvel Universe,

[56:01] within the Marvel Universe

[56:02] is of massive importance.

[56:03] It's of massive,

[56:04] foundational,

[56:05] cosmic importance.

[56:07] The Fantastic Four,

[56:08] they're coming late

[56:09] to the party,

[56:10] but they were,

[56:11] in the comics,

[56:11] they were the first ones there.

[56:12] I've always thought

[56:13] it was very funny

[56:14] that the Marvel Universe

[56:15] and the movie

[56:15] starts with Iron Man,

[56:16] a character that,

[56:17] at the time,

[56:18] they could afford

[56:19] to make a movie of

[56:19] because no one gave a shit

[56:21] about that character.

[56:22] He has always been,

[56:22] for most of Marvel history,

[56:24] he has been a B-level character,

[56:26] Iron Man.

[56:27] A very important character

[56:28] in being an original Avenger

[56:29] and things like that,

[56:30] but a B-level character

[56:31] and now he's like,

[56:32] when,

[56:33] it made me,

[56:34] this is one thing

[56:34] that didn't make me mad

[56:35] was in the Spider-Man,

[56:36] new Spider-Man movies

[56:36] when he's like,

[56:37] oh gee,

[56:38] I just gotta be like Iron Man

[56:39] and I gotta use all this

[56:40] Iron Man gimmickry

[56:41] dude,

[56:42] do you not know

[56:42] you're Spider-Man,

[56:43] the greatest character?

[56:45] Like,

[56:45] you're the best,

[56:45] greatest,

[56:46] most famous,

[56:46] most popular character.

[56:47] You don't need Iron Man.

[56:48] know how hot you are.

[56:49] And maybe that's what makes

[56:50] Spider-Man so great

[56:51] is he doesn't know

[56:51] how hot he is.

[56:52] Yeah,

[56:53] exactly.

[56:53] He thinks he needs

[56:54] to be Iron Man

[56:54] when he's way hotter

[56:55] than Iron Man.

[56:56] But I think

[56:57] the important lesson

[56:58] is that

[56:59] these things

[57:00] are of cosmic importance,

[57:02] the very survival

[57:02] of the Earth

[57:03] within the Marvel Universe,

[57:04] but in real life,

[57:06] they're not that important.

[57:07] It's just there

[57:07] to have fun,

[57:08] maybe learn a little bit,

[57:09] maybe be inspired

[57:10] a little bit.

[57:10] If you can take

[57:11] something positive

[57:12] from these stories,

[57:13] which I have,

[57:14] I think what I've taken

[57:15] positively from these stories

[57:16] if I can be personal,

[57:17] especially from Jack Kirby's work,

[57:18] but also from Steve Dicko's

[57:19] Spider-Man work,

[57:20] especially from Jack Kirby's work

[57:21] with his characters,

[57:22] The New Gods,

[57:23] is this feeling of

[57:26] being able to take control

[57:28] of your own life

[57:29] despite obstacles

[57:30] in your path

[57:31] and trying to be

[57:32] the best version of yourself

[57:33] and live by the principles

[57:34] that you think

[57:35] would make the world

[57:36] a better place

[57:36] and understanding

[57:37] that you will not always

[57:38] live up to those principles,

[57:40] but trying your best

[57:40] to live up to them

[57:41] most of the time

[57:42] and also recognizing

[57:43] that it's difficult

[57:44] to do that

[57:44] and it's difficult

[57:45] to be a full human being,

[57:47] to do right by the world,

[57:48] to do right by the people

[57:49] that you love

[57:50] and also to do right

[57:50] by yourself

[57:51] and to fulfill your responsibilities

[57:52] that it's hard to do that.

[57:53] I feel like that is the,

[57:54] that's the lesson

[57:55] of that first run of Spider-Man,

[57:56] which means so much to me,

[57:58] is it is hard

[57:58] to be a good person,

[57:59] but that doesn't give you

[58:00] an excuse

[58:00] to not be a good person.

[58:02] You don't get to opt out

[58:03] and you have to just recognize

[58:05] that it's difficult

[58:05] and with the Fantastic Four,

[58:07] that you are going to be

[58:07] confronted with problems

[58:08] that are seemingly unsolvable

[58:11] and maybe unsolvable,

[58:12] but you have to do your best

[58:13] because life continues

[58:15] and that's the beautiful thing

[58:16] about that last issue

[58:17] in the Galactus story,

[58:18] like I was saying,

[58:18] is they have just saved the world

[58:20] from Galactus,

[58:21] the devourer of worlds.

[58:22] They've been exposed

[58:23] to the sheer magnificent scale

[58:26] of the universe

[58:27] in a way they never have before

[58:28] and they've recognized

[58:29] how tiny they are

[58:31] in the eye of God,

[58:32] like how small they are

[58:33] in the grand scope of things.

[58:35] Then it's time to go to college,

[58:36] got to move in,

[58:37] got to meet your roommate,

[58:38] like Ben's going to go

[58:39] patch things up with Alicia.

[58:41] He gets jealous

[58:41] because he thinks that

[58:42] she might be into

[58:43] the Silver Surfer,

[58:43] that like those things

[58:44] are important too

[58:45] and they're more important

[58:46] and that like you can't,

[58:48] certainly more important

[58:49] than a fictional universe,

[58:50] but also that the things

[58:51] within your life

[58:52] are just as important

[58:53] as the big things

[58:54] and in some ways more important.

[58:55] It's difficult to do right by them,

[58:57] but you have to try

[58:58] and that's where the meaning

[58:59] of your life is going to come from.

[59:00] So if you can draw

[59:01] those types of things

[59:02] like I have

[59:03] and I'm very glad that I have,

[59:05] I'm very thankful that I have

[59:06] from this work,

[59:07] that's amazing,

[59:08] but at the same time,

[59:11] it's not real.

[59:12] Like it's not real

[59:12] and it doesn't matter

[59:13] and maybe that's why

[59:14] I'm so happy

[59:15] that I have not seen,

[59:16] if it's happening,

[59:17] I'm not aware of it

[59:18] and if it's happening,

[59:19] I'm not aware of it,

[59:20] then it makes me feel

[59:20] a little sadder

[59:21] that I have not seen

[59:22] this big backlash of like,

[59:23] what, Silver Surfer's a girl now?

[59:25] Because it so doesn't matter.

[59:27] It so doesn't matter at all.

[59:28] I think it's off

Stuart Wellington

[59:29] but the other casting

[59:30] has been very pleasing to fans.

Elliott Kalan

[59:33] Maybe that's it.

[59:34] Maybe that's it.

[59:35] I think then that the,

[59:37] it is a sign I think

[59:39] of maybe a healthy re-evaluating

[59:41] of where the Marvel

[59:42] cinematic universe lives

[59:44] in people's lives

[59:44] and in culture.

[59:46] Yeah.

[59:46] That, and hopefully

[59:47] where fictional universes

[59:48] in general live

[59:49] in people's lives

[59:50] and culture

[59:50] that I feel like

[59:51] the tone I'm getting

[59:52] around most people

[59:53] of the Fantastic War movie

[59:54] is like,

[59:55] yeah, I think I want to see that.

[59:56] That looks fun.

[59:57] As opposed to,

[59:58] I need to see it.

[59:59] I have to know

[1:00:00] what's going to happen.

[1:00:01] I need to know

[1:00:01] what's going to happen

[1:00:02] in this universe

[1:00:03] because it's my responsibility

[1:00:05] as a fan

[1:00:06] or as a moviegoer

[1:00:07] to be aware of it.

[1:00:08] More like,

[1:00:08] yeah, this looks fine.

[1:00:09] I think this is going to be good.

[1:00:10] I hope it's good.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:11] Well, not to take the wind

[1:00:12] out of your sails, Elliot,

[1:00:13] but if you,

[1:00:14] if you just wander over

[1:00:15] to the Last of Us subreddit,

[1:00:17] your opinions on fandoms

[1:00:20] will change.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:21] Well, I think this is a good,

[1:00:22] this has been a good lesson

[1:00:23] for everybody

[1:00:24] is don't go to the Last of Us subreddit.

Dan McCoy

[1:00:26] Don't go to any subreddit

[1:00:27] unless maybe,

[1:00:28] ours is probably fine.

[1:00:30] I try not to look at it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:31] Yeah.

[1:00:32] I don't want to get insulted.

[1:00:33] No, I think,

[1:00:34] I think here's my final moral

[1:00:36] in this long thing

[1:00:36] and then you guys can cut me off.

[1:00:38] If you're going to be a fan of anything,

[1:00:40] be a fan of your life,

[1:00:43] being alive,

[1:00:44] living in reality,

[1:00:45] the actual world.

[1:00:46] Do it.

[1:00:46] Just do it.

[1:00:47] You can be a fan of other things,

[1:00:48] but save your biggest fandom

[1:00:49] for your own life.

[1:00:51] Yeah, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:52] Learn to date yourself first.

[1:00:54] I mean,

[1:00:55] we talked a lot about dating yourself

[1:00:56] in that last episode.

[1:00:57] Yeah, yeah, the free cello.

[1:00:59] And my,

[1:01:00] the thing I will say is

[1:01:02] I don't have a lot of experience

[1:01:04] with Galactus,

[1:01:05] but every time I think of Galactus,

[1:01:08] I think of that,

[1:01:09] that reoccurring bee story

[1:01:11] in Top Ten

[1:01:13] where the one character's grandmother

[1:01:16] has super mice.

[1:01:18] So the exterminator

[1:01:19] or ex-verminator,

[1:01:21] I think is his name.

[1:01:21] Ex-verminator, yeah.

[1:01:22] He brings in super cats.

[1:01:23] Super cats

[1:01:24] and it leads to a crossover event

[1:01:25] with Galactus,

[1:01:27] which is a cat

[1:01:28] that looks like Galactus.

[1:01:29] I'm like,

[1:01:30] I just think about it all the time.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:32] That, I mean,

[1:01:33] if you,

[1:01:33] if you walk away from this episode

[1:01:34] learning anything,

[1:01:35] it is one,

[1:01:37] spend more time in real life

[1:01:38] than in fictional worlds.

[1:01:40] And also,

[1:01:40] you should read Top Ten.

[1:01:41] That first run of Top Ten,

[1:01:43] that Alan Moore,

[1:01:43] Xander Cannon,

[1:01:44] Gene Ha run,

[1:01:45] it's so good.

[1:01:46] It's such a great book.

[1:01:46] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:47] And I'm a huge fan

[1:01:48] of the Smack spinoff as well.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:49] Yes, the Smack spinoff is great.

[1:01:51] That's true.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:52] I bug Xander Cannon about all the time

[1:01:54] and he has a new book out

[1:01:55] and it's great.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:56] Yeah.

[1:01:56] And I mean,

[1:01:57] you get that Top Ten Omnibus

[1:01:58] and read through that.

[1:01:59] There's that one miniseries

[1:02:00] in the middle

[1:02:01] that is not so great.

[1:02:03] Yeah.

[1:02:03] But otherwise,

[1:02:04] it's all great stuff.

[1:02:05] So guys,

[1:02:05] thank you for coming with me

[1:02:06] on this very long journey

[1:02:07] through the Fantastic Four,

[1:02:09] Silver Surfer,

[1:02:10] and Galactus.

[1:02:11] If anyone is still with us,

[1:02:12] then I hope

[1:02:13] that you enjoyed it.

[1:02:15] If you're not still with us,

[1:02:16] join us next time

[1:02:17] when we're going to be

[1:02:17] talking about a movie.

[1:02:19] This has been The Flophouse.

[1:02:20] My name is Elliot Kalin.

[1:02:21] We're on the Maximum Fun Network.

[1:02:23] Please listen to the other

[1:02:24] Maximum Fun podcasts,

[1:02:25] sample them,

[1:02:26] see what you like.

[1:02:27] I think you'll enjoy it.

[1:02:29] If you are interested

[1:02:30] in learning more

[1:02:31] about the Fantastic Four

[1:02:32] Kirby Lee issues,

[1:02:33] I'm going to recommend it.

[1:02:33] Visit your local library.

[1:02:35] Yeah, yeah.

[1:02:35] Don't take my word for it.

[1:02:36] But I am going to recommend

[1:02:37] not a Maximum Fun podcast,

[1:02:39] unfortunately,

[1:02:39] but a podcast called Screw It.

[1:02:40] We're just going to talk about comics

[1:02:41] by Will and Kevin Hines.

[1:02:43] And they read through

[1:02:44] the entirety of the

[1:02:46] Lee Kirby

[1:02:46] Fantastic Four run

[1:02:47] and did a podcast of it.

[1:02:49] It was great.

[1:02:50] Or you can go to

[1:02:50] the Marvel by the Month podcast,

[1:02:52] a friend of this podcast also.

[1:02:53] They read through all those issues

[1:02:54] and they did a great job with it.

[1:02:56] If you want to dig in more

[1:02:57] into Marvel history,

[1:02:59] those are two great podcasts

[1:03:00] to do it with.

[1:03:01] But first,

[1:03:02] go to the Maximum Fun podcast.

[1:03:03] I want to thank our producer,

[1:03:04] Howell Doughty,

[1:03:05] a.k.a. Alex Smith.

[1:03:06] He goes by Howell Doughty Online

[1:03:08] and Alex Smith in Real Life,

[1:03:09] which is the real one.

[1:03:10] I don't know.

[1:03:11] He just stares in a mirror

[1:03:12] and says,

[1:03:12] who am I?

[1:03:13] Am I Alex or Howell?

[1:03:15] Thank you so much

[1:03:16] for probably putting in

[1:03:17] some sound effects

[1:03:18] to make this like a funnier episode

[1:03:19] than it was otherwise.

[1:03:20] And thank you,

[1:03:21] finally,

[1:03:22] to you,

[1:03:23] the listener.

[1:03:24] If you like the Flophouse,

[1:03:25] why not leave us

[1:03:26] a positive review

[1:03:27] on the podcast

[1:03:28] dealie

[1:03:29] of your choice?

[1:03:30] Why not?

[1:03:30] Or tell a friend about it.

[1:03:31] You know what?

[1:03:32] Spread the word

[1:03:33] to the Flophouse.

[1:03:34] Yeah.

[1:03:34] Go on a street corner.

[1:03:36] Make this your life.

[1:03:36] Yeah.

[1:03:37] Spreading the gospel

[1:03:37] of the Flophouse.

[1:03:38] Right here,

[1:03:38] Congressman.

[1:03:39] Yeah,

[1:03:40] be our herald.

[1:03:41] Congressperson.

[1:03:41] Yeah,

[1:03:42] Congressperson.

[1:03:43] Paint yourself all silver

[1:03:44] and go out

[1:03:44] and be the herald

[1:03:45] of the Flophouse.

[1:03:46] And the Flophouse,

[1:03:47] devourer of time,

[1:03:48] is coming your way.

[1:03:49] You better listen to it.

[1:03:50] Until then,

[1:03:51] I am Elliot Kalin.

[1:03:53] I'm Dan McCoy.

[1:03:54] I'm Stuart Willington.

[1:03:56] Saying,

[1:03:56] go outside.

[1:03:57] Do something in the real world

[1:03:58] for a little bit.

Stuart Wellington

[1:03:59] Babe,

[1:03:59] babe,

[1:03:59] wake up.

[1:04:00] The Flophouse mini's

[1:04:01] finally over.

[1:04:08] Maximum fun.

Dan McCoy

[1:04:09] A worker-owned network

[1:04:11] of artist-owned shows

[1:04:12] supported

[1:04:13] directly

[1:04:14] by you.

FH Mini 130 - A Galactus-Sized Explainer

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