Ep. #257 - The Greatest Showman

[0:00] On this episode, we discuss the greatest showman.

[0:04] His name, Dan McCoy, Mr. Excitement.

[0:30] Hey, everyone, and welcome to the Flophouse.

[0:38] I'm Dan McCoy.

[0:39] Oh, hey there, Dan McCoy.

[0:40] I'm Stuart Wellington.

[0:42] Dan McCoy, Stuart Wellington, all the ghosts of those I've wronged have come to visit me,

[0:47] Elliot Kalin.

[0:48] Mm-hmm.

[0:49] And I bring spectral chains to bind you with.

[0:52] No!

[0:53] Each link of those chains was forged in my life.

[0:56] Yeah, why'd you forge those chains in your life?

[1:00] It seems like it's really come back to bite you in the ass.

[1:02] Yeah, yeah, the chains did bite me in the ass.

[1:04] Way to mix metaphors there, Dan.

[1:06] Brilliant work, Mr. Poet.

[1:08] Anyway, I forged those chains because I wanted to be like the guy who founded Patagonia,

[1:13] who started out by building his own mountain climbing equipment just as a blacksmith.

[1:19] Was his name Cliff Patagonia?

[1:22] Cliff Patagonia.

[1:23] And now he's a very wealthy man who loves the earth and his company helps to destroy

[1:27] it by enabling rich assholes to go on very expensive vacations.

[1:33] Do their clothes feature, like, animal products the way that those Canada goose jackets are

[1:39] like the product of, like, fox hunting?

[1:42] Oh, really?

[1:43] I am not aware of that.

[1:44] Something bad like...

[1:45] I didn't know that.

[1:46] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:47] They're like...

[1:48] There's, like, all these protests.

[1:49] It just seems like such an old-fashioned way to get, like, a fox, if that's what you

[1:53] want for clothing.

[1:54] Yeah, it's either that or just, like...

[1:56] Wait, Dan, it's not like the fox is sewn into the lining of the jacket.

[1:59] What are you talking about?

[2:00] Well, I don't know what they're using as fox clothing.

[2:02] What's the newfangled modern way to get a fox, Dan?

[2:05] What's the 21st century way to get a fox?

[2:07] Fox farming.

[2:08] You get fox farms going on.

[2:09] Oh, like that Angelina Jolie movie, Fox Farm?

[2:13] Mm-hmm.

[2:14] Yeah.

[2:16] Wait, is that the one where Chevy Chase eats hog balls?

[2:19] You're thinking of not Funny Farm.

[2:21] You're thinking of Funny Farm.

[2:25] Yeah.

[2:26] Um...

[2:27] Yeah, that was...

[2:28] Is that the sequel to Funny Farm?

[2:29] You know who loved Funny Farm?

[2:31] Roger Ebert.

[2:32] He gave it, like, three and a half stars.

[2:34] Hey!

[2:35] Was there, like, a buxom lady in it?

[2:37] I don't know.

[2:38] I don't remember.

[2:39] He does love those.

[2:40] Or he did love them.

[2:41] Um...

[2:42] Yeah, poor guy.

[2:43] R.I.P.

[2:44] Anyway, what do we do on this podcast, Dan?

[2:47] Other than disparage Robert, Roger Ebert.

[2:50] Or his brother, Robert Ebert, whose name is almost an anagram for itself, but not quite.

[2:56] Try again next time, Robert Ebert.

[2:59] Not enough letters in your last name, dude.

[3:06] And, of course, Robot Ebert, which...

[3:09] Oh, of course!

[3:12] Let's not forget.

[3:13] Steely Claws crushed Gene Siskel.

[3:16] Oh, boy, and you thought your family was weird.

[3:22] So, are you just reading the, like, line on the bottom of the video box?

[3:28] Of the Ebert boys?

[3:30] The rousing comedy?

[3:32] So, Roger Ebert is a film critic.

[3:35] His brother, Robert Ebert, now wants to be a film critic.

[3:38] And their other brother is a robot.

[3:39] And they've all got to lose their virginity in Tijuana during spring break.

[3:44] Yeah.

[3:45] Um...

[3:46] That sounds great.

[3:47] Anyway, on this podcast...

[3:49] So, what do we do on this podcast, Dan?

[3:51] Other than pitch brilliant ideas for movies.

[3:53] We watch a bad movie, and then we talk about it.

[3:55] Uh-huh.

[3:56] And this time around, we watched a movie called The Greatest Showman.

[4:00] Uh-huh.

[4:01] Now, I remember...

[4:02] Oh, wait.

[4:03] Are you going to say how there's some controversy about our choice of this one?

[4:05] Yeah, but you can go on.

[4:07] Because it was a very successful movie, both financially and with certain critics.

[4:12] Yeah, I remember Elliot really wanted to do this movie.

[4:15] And he's like, can we do that thing, that piece of shit looking Greatest Showman?

[4:19] And I'm like, I think it's still in theaters.

[4:21] That sounds a lot like Elliot.

[4:25] It was like the stealth hit.

[4:28] Well, let me go check my...

[4:31] Let me check my...

[4:32] Real quick, guys.

[4:33] Let me check the tomato meter.

[4:36] The tomometer for it is probably pretty high.

[4:39] I mean, it made like $400 million or something.

[4:41] It was a sleeper hit, as you would say.

[4:44] If anyone could fall asleep during all those bombastic musical numbers.

[4:48] That tomometer, well, with the critics, no thanks.

[4:52] A 56%.

[4:53] That's a green splat right on its face.

[4:56] Now, guys...

[4:57] What about Tom Craig's?

[4:59] Somebody ring up my friend Charlie Booker.

[5:02] Because what if...

[5:03] What if...

[5:04] Now, hear me out.

[5:05] What if...

[5:06] Now, just don't interrupt.

[5:07] I think you want to hear this whole idea.

[5:09] What if somebody invented a rotten tomato meter for life?

[5:16] Okay.

[5:17] Uh-huh.

[5:18] So, that's a Black Mirror episode.

[5:21] I mean, I guess just Venmo me the money for that idea.

[5:26] No, but Venmo.

[5:27] That's another Black Mirror episode right there.

[5:29] We're coming up with great ideas for Black Mirror.

[5:31] What if you could Venmo emotions?

[5:35] What?

[5:36] So, wait.

[5:37] Is it like a chip in your brain?

[5:39] Or is it attached to a robot?

[5:41] And that robot will, like, make you feel good?

[5:44] That's the great thing.

[5:45] We don't have to explain it.

[5:46] We just say it.

[5:47] And then we have kind of like a pretty standard drama between two people.

[5:52] But they send emotions to each other over phones.

[5:55] Uh-huh.

[5:56] So, like, there will be a scene where a kid is graduating.

[5:59] And instead of openly congratulating their kid,

[6:03] the parents just Venmo them the emotion of congratulations?

[6:07] Yes.

[6:08] I realize now this is very similar to the movie Equilibrium.

[6:11] Yeah, exactly.

[6:12] This is very similar to the movie Equilibrium where emotions are against the law.

[6:16] Yeah, well, that's not similar.

[6:19] One of them you're just sending emotions to them.

[6:21] Well, it will be because both would—

[6:22] Wait, wait.

[6:23] Emotions were against the law in that movie?

[6:26] Yeah, because I thought the whole movie was just a gun food delivery system.

[6:29] I mean it is, but the high concept was that emotions are against the law.

[6:32] Anyway, Chuck Brooker, get involved with us.

[6:36] Tell us.

[6:38] Well, we've got plenty of ideas for Black Mirrors.

[6:40] Like, for instance, what if—

[6:43] Okay, people love animated GIFs of cute cats.

[6:47] What if they liked animated GIFs of people getting killed?

[6:50] That's another one right there.

[6:52] Oh, wow.

[6:53] That's terrifying already.

[6:54] Desensitized, yeah.

[6:55] And it's a world we could live in today, except we won't.

[6:59] I guess—you know what, guys?

[7:01] I just feel stung by that last season of Black Mirror, which I felt like was not as good as the other ones.

[7:05] Maybe I'm being too harsh.

[7:07] I mean I think you're—I think it reached a kind of—I don't know.

[7:10] Let's just use the word equilibrium again.

[7:13] Okay.

[7:14] Where it just kind of like leveled out, and the highs weren't as high and the lows weren't as low.

[7:18] It was just, eh.

[7:19] Yeah, I think you're right.

[7:20] So anyway, The Greatest Showman, that's what we're talking about today, right?

[7:24] I both haven't watched Black Mirror, and I was fiddling around with the Skype call trying to pick some technical difficulties.

[7:30] So I'm sorry if I sort of dipped out of the conversation there for a while.

[7:33] I thought you just didn't want to piss off Mr. Television, who runs that show and all things, who might hire you someday.

[7:40] Who knows?

[7:41] Yeah, Dan doesn't want to burn any bridges right now.

[7:43] Yeah.

[7:44] Especially right now of all times, when the Cherry Blossom Festival is going on across the street and it's making Stewart's parking difficult.

[7:51] I don't understand how the two things relate at all, but I accept your—

[7:56] Yeah, that's the untold behind-the-scenes story of how we're recording late today because Stewart's parking was difficult.

[8:02] Because Stewart decided to drive to somewhere in New York like a fucking Seinfeld character.

[8:08] That's true.

[8:10] I am a lot like a Seinfeld character.

[8:13] So you're clearly Kramer, right?

[8:17] I think so, yeah.

[8:18] I mean, I think—

[8:20] And I think Dan and I are both George.

[8:22] Yeah.

[8:23] And Hallie is Elaine.

[8:24] That goes without saying.

[8:27] So, wait.

[8:29] I don't have to say all that bad stuff at that comedy club, right?

[8:33] You do.

[8:34] You have to be racist because you're Kramer now.

[8:37] Oh, no.

[8:38] This briefly changed into a flop house behind-the-music episode, and now it's just the Seinfeld cast, I guess.

[8:47] Yeah.

[8:48] So speaking of Seinfeld, none of the stars of Seinfeld appear in The Greatest Showman, which is too bad because George Costanza himself, Jason Alexander, is a noted song-and-dance man, Tony Award winner for his work on Broadway, but he's not in this.

[9:02] So here's why I want to do this movie so badly.

[9:04] One, it is a big spectacle musical of the type that you don't see that much of anymore.

[9:10] Basically, this and La La Land are the only ones I can think of since, what, like, Moulin Rouge?

[9:16] And I'm not counting, like, Beauty and the Beast.

[9:18] Like, adaptations of pre-existing musicals or, like, Broadway shows that became movies like Jersey Boys.

[9:24] Like, I'm not counting those.

[9:25] I mean, like, an original-to-the-screen, big-budget musical, although in this case it kind of feels like a Broadway show that they just snuck a camera into at certain times.

[9:36] Okay.

[9:37] Also, because from everything I saw about it, it looked really dumb, and I guess, is it going to turn out to have been dumb?

[9:45] You'll find out on tonight's episode of The Flophouse.

[9:48] Join us, won't you?

[9:49] Weeknights at 9 on WPIX, New York's movie station, Channel 11.

[9:53] Mm-hmm.

[9:54] Okay.

[9:55] Well, we finished the promos.

[9:56] Should I get some snacks before the show?

[9:57] I'll see you guys tomorrow.

[9:58] Bye.

[10:00] Oh, Elliot, no, come back.

[10:02] Oh, I got some bad news for you, Elliot.

[10:03] You're gonna have to cancel your plans.

[10:05] Oh, no.

[10:07] So guys, should we go through what happens

[10:09] in The Greatest Showman and find out

[10:10] whether it is indeed the greatest show?

[10:12] Because it's like, you want to say,

[10:15] welcome to all my friends to the show that never ends.

[10:18] But it doesn't.

[10:19] It's only an hour and 44 minutes long.

[10:21] Yeah, by the way, I was sitting at home watching it

[10:24] and my main thought was,

[10:26] there's gotta be a greatest snowman meme out there.

[10:28] And sure enough, there was.

[10:30] Great.

[10:31] Yep.

[10:32] What is the greatest snowman, is it?

[10:34] I guess Frosty, I assume.

[10:37] Yeah, I mean, was there an upset?

[10:42] I mean, they just had the snowman from The Snowman.

[10:45] They were in one.

[10:46] Oh, man, the saddest snowman?

[10:47] Yeah.

[10:48] That sucks.

[10:50] Dan, can you name another snowman other than Frosty?

[10:54] Jack Frost.

[10:56] Not a snowman. Which one?

[10:57] Oh, you mean the movie Jack Frost?

[10:59] Yeah.

[11:00] Oh, the movie.

[11:00] Because Jack Frost, the personification of cold

[11:03] is not a snowman.

[11:04] No, I understand.

[11:05] I was talking about the movie Jack Frost.

[11:07] Oh, which one?

[11:08] The horror movie or the Michael Keaton movie?

[11:11] I think I was thinking of the horror movie

[11:13] because you could argue whether Michael Keaton

[11:14] in the Michael Keaton movie was purely a snowman.

[11:17] Oh, because he had the soul of a dead man in it?

[11:20] Yeah.

[11:21] But he doesn't have organs or anything, right?

[11:26] Nobody, I mean, he has a mouth organ, a harmonica,

[11:29] because he's like a jazz musician in the movie.

[11:31] Oh, he is?

[11:32] I think I didn't realize he was dead in the movie

[11:37] because that seems pretty bleak for a children's film.

[11:39] I thought he probably just turned into a snowman

[11:41] to learn a lesson or something.

[11:42] No, no, maybe he comes back,

[11:44] but he's like a dad who was never around his kids

[11:46] because he was busy being a blues man

[11:48] and he dies and comes back as a snowman.

[11:50] Okay.

[11:51] Oh, is it because he was so cold to his kids?

[11:55] I think that's what it is.

[11:56] Yeah, he becomes a real ghost dad,

[11:58] by which I mean he is found guilty

[12:01] on all charges of being a bad dad.

[12:03] Yeah.

[12:05] You know, there's a lot of supervillains

[12:07] in the DC universe that use cold as a weapon.

[12:09] I think that's kind of strange.

[12:11] Okay, I can name two.

[12:14] Okay.

[12:15] How many more are there?

[12:17] Dan, can you get on end of this?

[12:18] I'm betting in this game, I can't.

[12:20] Dan, can you beat me?

[12:21] I can name two cold-based DC villains.

[12:23] Can you beat me?

[12:25] Can you name three?

[12:26] I can not go over you.

[12:27] I can name one.

[12:28] You know what, I can name three.

[12:30] Oh, wow, okay.

[12:31] If Weather Wizard counts, then I can name three.

[12:34] I guess it'll count.

[12:35] I mean, does Penguin count?

[12:36] I mean, he always makes his guys hang around cold penguins.

[12:40] Only in Batman Returns, I think.

[12:42] Okay.

[12:43] Well, there's still others.

[12:45] Captain Cold and Mr. Freeze

[12:46] are the only ones I can really think of.

[12:48] Yeah, and Killer Frost.

[12:52] Killer Frost?

[12:53] Who's Killer Frost?

[12:54] Isn't that a Flash villain?

[12:56] Are you thinking of Captain Cold?

[12:58] Probably.

[13:00] Well, maybe you're right.

[13:00] I don't know, DC.

[13:01] I'm a Marvel zombie.

[13:02] Anyway, great ensurement, guys.

[13:04] We should probably back up track.

[13:06] You don't wanna guess names of super villains anymore?

[13:11] Coldies, is that a super villain?

[13:13] Mm-hmm, yep.

[13:15] Yeah.

[13:17] Okay.

[13:17] Does she count as a super villain?

[13:19] I mean, it depends on your point of view.

[13:20] I mean, for a little bit, yeah.

[13:22] Yeah.

[13:24] She's not a DC character.

[13:25] If anything, she'd be a Marvel character

[13:26] because she's part of Disney.

[13:27] But anyway.

[13:28] Oh, it's only a matter of time.

[13:29] But I guarantee you that,

[13:31] I haven't seen Avengers Infinity War yet.

[13:33] Maybe it happens in that.

[13:34] But in Avengers Infinity War 2,

[13:36] I guarantee you that Elsa shows up,

[13:38] Mickey shows up, Goofy shows up.

[13:41] Yep.

[13:41] Like, somehow the Ninja Turtles are gonna show up.

[13:44] Somehow Mario and Luigi are gonna show up.

[13:47] They're all in it.

[13:48] And that kid that carries around

[13:50] the giant heart-shaped key

[13:51] from the Kingdom Hearts video game is gonna show up?

[13:54] Oh, of course.

[13:55] Oh yeah, definitely.

[13:56] And Luke Skywalker and C-3PO, they're all in it.

[13:59] Greedo, all your favorite Star Wars characters.

[14:02] Glad Greedo comes alive.

[14:04] Is he a ghost in a snowman?

[14:07] I think this happens before the first Star Wars,

[14:09] so he's still alive.

[14:10] Okay, that's good to know.

[14:12] No, but Greedo's dad just comes back

[14:14] as a ghost in a snowman.

[14:15] His name, Snowdo.

[14:18] Wow, okay.

[14:19] Or you know what?

[14:19] No, Greesnow.

[14:21] That's kinda on the snows.

[14:23] So.

[14:25] So the Greatest Showman, or should I say Snowman,

[14:27] no one's ever thought of that joke before, right Dan?

[14:30] Nope.

[14:31] So, The Greatest Showman, it's all,

[14:35] it's like this movie feels like the trailer

[14:38] for a much longer movie to me.

[14:41] Like, there were so many times during the movie

[14:42] where I was like, is this the movie?

[14:44] Because it's moving along really fast

[14:46] and I don't really have a sense

[14:47] of who any of these characters are.

[14:49] But I'll get into it.

[14:50] So it opens with a rousing number

[14:52] that Hugh Jackman sings about how

[14:54] this is the greatest show and the circus

[14:56] is everything you'll ever want or dream of.

[14:59] Because here's something about the circus

[15:01] that I think is fascinating to me.

[15:03] The circus always presents itself as like,

[15:05] this is the ultimate fantasy world.

[15:07] It's this is, all the things you've never seen before.

[15:11] When really it's like acrobats and clowns and elephants.

[15:13] And I love the circus.

[15:14] I'll go to the circus every day.

[15:16] But I've never been at the circus and been like,

[15:18] oh, I could never imagine such a thing.

[15:21] How do you feel about circus, vis-a-vis that?

[15:24] You'd prefer their hype to be a little more like,

[15:27] like stayed, like a little more realistic and be like,

[15:30] oh yeah, so we have trapeze guys

[15:33] and some weird looking folks and music maybe, peanuts.

[15:40] I would like them to say, for two hours,

[15:42] you're going to enter a world of spectacle and amazement.

[15:45] Then you'll feel bad the rest of the day

[15:48] as you think about how the animals and people are treated.

[15:51] Before and after the performance.

[15:53] Like that's an accurate description of the circus to me.

[15:56] Again, a world that I love, circus stuff.

[15:58] Who wouldn't want to run away and join the circus?

[16:00] I'll tell you who.

[16:03] Every other character in The Greatest Showman

[16:04] is not P.T. Barnum.

[16:05] Because now we're introduced to Hugh Jackman's character

[16:09] as a boy, he's young Phineas Barnum.

[16:12] He's just a poor pauper, a street urchin

[16:14] whose dad is a tailor of some kind,

[16:16] but they're still very poor.

[16:18] His dad is a tailor to a very rich man.

[16:23] They're making a house visit,

[16:24] tailoring for some rich guy,

[16:26] and Phineas decides to clown around

[16:28] and he makes a little rich girl laugh

[16:29] and gets slapped at for it by her dad.

[16:32] But then they meet up afterwards on a beach

[16:33] and Phineas and her sing a classic I Want song

[16:36] about how there's a hidden place just for them

[16:38] no matter what anybody says.

[16:40] And this song goes on for a very long time.

[16:44] It covers years of their life.

[16:46] Yeah, that's what I was gonna say.

[16:48] We are in scene-

[16:49] It goes on so long they're old by the end of it.

[16:51] We are in scene three of this movie.

[16:53] This is the third scene of the film

[16:55] and we're already skipping through years of time

[16:58] as we watch them get older.

[17:00] Phineas's dad, who I don't even know his name,

[17:02] I don't know what their relationship was like,

[17:04] he's had two lines of dialogue, he dies.

[17:06] I don't know if this devastates Phineas or not.

[17:09] I'm assuming it doesn't affect him too much

[17:11] other than giving him a complex

[17:13] about wanting to make a name for himself.

[17:16] I guess so, yeah.

[17:17] Because Phineas goes on, sorry, what did you say?

[17:20] He just goes to comfort his dying dad

[17:22] and then the next thing we see is him

[17:24] putting a top hat on a pine box.

[17:27] Yeah, which is how you buried people back then.

[17:29] They didn't have enough dirts.

[17:31] They buried people in single top hats.

[17:33] Yes.

[17:34] If you ever go to an old cemetery,

[17:36] it's just pine boxes covered in top hats.

[17:38] I mean, that's kind of the trick with top hats

[17:40] is that they're very distracting.

[17:42] So you see the top hat

[17:44] and you don't even look at what's underneath it.

[17:46] That's why everyone assumes people wearing top hats

[17:48] are just Abraham Lincolns.

[17:50] Yeah, because you just see the hat, that's it.

[17:53] That was something, the movie Top Hat with Fred Astaire

[17:56] was originally about Abraham Lincoln

[17:58] as a guy who worked at a cemetery

[18:01] and they said it's hard to put the song

[18:03] and dance numbers into this

[18:04] because people know historically

[18:06] that Abraham Lincoln was not an amazing tap dancer

[18:09] like you are, Fred Astaire.

[18:10] So we're going to change this

[18:11] into like a mistaken identity romantic comedy

[18:14] and he's like, whatever, I just want to dance.

[18:17] Tap-a-da-tap-a-da-tap-tap-tap.

[18:19] And they were like, Fred, can you please stop saying

[18:20] tap-a-da-tap-a-da-tap-tap-tap

[18:22] at the end of all of your sentences?

[18:24] It's very weird.

[18:25] And he goes, it's a nervous tick that I have.

[18:27] Tap-a-da-tap-a-tap-tap.

[18:28] And they were like, instead of saying it,

[18:30] why don't you act it out with your feet?

[18:32] And that's how he became that amazing tap dancer

[18:34] we all know today.

[18:34] Fred Astaire, everybody, let's hear it.

[18:36] Yeah, there's, that's one of the things I like about-

[18:38] I remember this with Karina Longworth.

[18:40] One of the things I like about doing the show

[18:42] is that I learn stuff about old Hollywood.

[18:44] Cause like, you know, like it's crazier than,

[18:47] it's crazier than fiction, you know?

[18:49] Yeah.

[18:50] Oh, you couldn't make this stuff up.

[18:51] It would be impossible.

[18:52] Speaking of, you can't make it up.

[18:53] At least a waste of time.

[18:56] At the very least.

[18:58] Well, it did that.

[18:59] We're closer to death than we were

[19:00] before I started that bit.

[19:02] Yeah.

[19:03] Speaking of, so this song is still going on.

[19:06] Barnum becomes a kind of an Aladdin type street,

[19:08] street rat thief, but kindness is shown to him

[19:11] by like a disfigured woman.

[19:14] And I guess this is supposed to inspire us to,

[19:16] oh, this is why he wanted to be around

[19:18] people who looked different, I guess.

[19:21] He keeps writing letters to his rich pen pal,

[19:23] this woman named Charity.

[19:24] They grow up.

[19:25] Hugh Jackman shows up and asks for Charity's hand

[19:28] and they run off together.

[19:29] That's when I thought, oh, the song is over?

[19:31] No, the song was still going.

[19:33] It's important that you specify that it is Hugh Jackman

[19:35] because that was when he morphed into actor Hugh Jackman

[19:39] and not little kid guy.

[19:41] Little kid, he stops being little kid

[19:43] and becomes Hugh Jackman.

[19:45] So the little kid plays P.T. Barnum

[19:46] from the ages of like, what, 14 to 16.

[19:50] And then Hugh Jackman plays Barnum

[19:52] from the age of like 20 to death.

[19:54] Yeah, he morphed from a mini-Ackman to a Hugh Jackman.

[20:00] Well said, well done.

[20:03] And they're dancing and now they're married and they're living in a tenement.

[20:07] The song keeps going and it ends with her pregnant because I guess them having sex was

[20:12] symbolized by them dancing on rooftops among sheets that were hung up to dry because that's

[20:18] how you signify that it's a tenement is that clothing and things are hung up to dry on

[20:22] laundry lines.

[20:23] And it's like the whole movie by this point felt to me like when you see a commercial

[20:27] on TV for a Broadway show and you're like, man, if I saw that in the theater, it would

[20:31] probably be amazing.

[20:33] But to watch it on screen, it looks really dumb and corny.

[20:36] And did you guys feel kind of the same way?

[20:38] Well, it's deliberately fake, like the production design is intentionally this sort of fantasy

[20:44] realm in real life.

[20:46] Yeah, it's very Moulin Rougie.

[20:48] Yeah.

[20:49] And I will say this.

[20:52] I think that the songs are pretty much garbage.

[20:55] And I found out.

[20:56] Sure.

[20:57] Yeah.

[20:58] Yeah.

[20:59] Just because just because every single song sounds exactly the same as the one before

[21:02] it.

[21:03] Yeah.

[21:04] Well, I found out that it was written by the same people who wrote the La La Land music.

[21:06] And let me say, I was not surprised based on how memorable I found the music from La

[21:11] La Land.

[21:13] But I will say my notes in my notes for the movie on the music, it does say really reminds

[21:19] me how good Lin-Manuel Miranda is at his job.

[21:23] Yeah.

[21:24] So there was that.

[21:25] I mean, I didn't like the songs, but there are three production numbers in the movie

[21:30] I kind of like, and I think I'll point them out as we get to them.

[21:33] And I liked I mean, I liked how the sheets on the roof were kind of dancing along with

[21:41] Oh, yeah.

[21:42] Two of them.

[21:43] Like when he lifts her up, the sheets lift up also.

[21:45] Yeah.

[21:46] And I thought that was a really nice staging.

[21:47] And that was one of the three production numbers that I enjoyed the look of, if not

[21:51] the sound of.

[21:53] What other production numbers did Dan like?

[21:55] Oh, stay tuned to find out, flop fans.

[21:58] Live in suspense.

[22:00] So the and I will say this, this movie has a ton of energy and a ton of it like you really

[22:06] feel like they're trying to wow you at all moments, which I appreciate it.

[22:09] But they yeah, just like Burnham himself, you know, exactly.

[22:15] The movie also tries to make you feel and it and it did not succeed at that for me.

[22:20] So let's talk about what happens next, because Phineas, our Barnum, he's working as an accountant,

[22:25] but his boss is bankrupt.

[22:28] And that's one of the things I only have room in my life for one Phineas, and that's Phineas

[22:32] Fogg.

[22:33] So call him Finn or P.T. from now on.

[22:36] Sorry.

[22:37] And when I'm not Phineas and Ferb, that's not your favorite cartoon show?

[22:41] No, I call it Finn and Ferb.

[22:43] OK, so I'll call him Barnum or P.T. from now on.

[22:47] Thank you.

[22:48] His full name was PTSD Barnum, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder Barnum.

[22:52] And they said, why don't you start with P.T.?

[22:55] That's a lot of initials to remember.

[22:59] So anyway, he has we see he has a fun family.

[23:02] He has two daughters and they're very quirky.

[23:04] He constructs a sort of wish machine revolving lights coming out of a box thing for his daughter's

[23:11] birthday.

[23:12] That's like putting a candle inside a colander.

[23:15] OK.

[23:16] Take away the magic.

[23:17] Sure.

[23:18] If you strip away the fantasy.

[23:19] That's exactly what it is.

[23:20] Yeah.

[23:21] Wait, wait.

[23:22] That's how easy it is to make a wish machine.

[23:23] I'll show you.

[23:24] I can get anything I want.

[23:25] I'll show you afterwards, Stuart.

[23:26] It'll be our craft corner.

[23:27] I can get the I can get the code to break into New York's bank vault and I can take all the

[23:37] money.

[23:38] Why wouldn't you just wish for the money?

[23:39] Because he enjoys the thrill of the steal.

[23:42] When he's done, after he takes the money, he's just going to throw it out of a balloon

[23:46] like I assume they do.

[23:47] And now you see me because he just likes the thrill of the of the hunt.

[23:51] He just likes the steal.

[23:52] You know.

[23:53] OK.

[23:54] Yeah.

[23:55] I just like to feel alive for one fleeting moment.

[23:57] So let's go on.

[23:58] That's why he shoplifts those batteries.

[24:00] He doesn't need all those batteries.

[24:02] Yeah.

[24:03] Yeah.

[24:04] So we see that Barnum, he has this real flair for showmanship because he turns what's merely

[24:10] a candle in a colander into a wonderful wish machine for his kids.

[24:14] Then he he's in a waiting room to get a loan for a business.

[24:18] And in the waiting room, he encounters a dwarf and the dwarf's mother.

[24:23] And this, I guess, inspires him to open his curiosities museum.

[24:30] At this point, here's what I'm going to say.

[24:33] Don't go into this movie expecting an accurate portrayal of P.T. Barnum's life.

[24:37] That was something that you're talking about.

[24:41] That's a charge that was leveled at this movie when it came out.

[24:44] And it's like if you're expecting that going in, you've already lost the battle with the

[24:48] movie because they do skip over the beginning of Barnum's career when he basically just

[24:53] took an old black lady and took her on tour and told people she was one hundred and fifty

[24:57] years old and knew George Washington and didn't give her any money.

[25:02] The first act he really got famous with was literally just, hey, do you want to see the

[25:06] oldest black woman you've ever seen?

[25:08] Because she's going to sit here and she's going to tell you stories about George Washington

[25:12] as a baby that are not true.

[25:14] But they skip that whole thing.

[25:15] Yeah.

[25:16] I mean, wait, wait, that wasn't in the movie.

[25:20] No.

[25:23] They skip that part.

[25:24] Dan, you were going to say something?

[25:26] Yeah, well, this is skipping ahead to a more like review final judgment's place, but like

[25:32] that's the main sticking point of the movie.

[25:35] Like there's a lot to like in this movie.

[25:37] I feel like it's it's handsomely put together.

[25:40] But the Hugh Jackman, he's gorgeous, he's amazing.

[25:45] But the thesis that those eyes come on.

[25:48] Oh, my God.

[25:49] There's a moment where he gets burned up and I'm like, please don't let him lose those

[25:53] muscles.

[25:54] Melted in the fire.

[25:55] No, but like, oh, no.

[25:56] The problem with all the all the street urchins on the street corners are selling Zac Efron

[26:05] muscle wax candles.

[26:07] Yeah.

[26:08] Now, the problem with this movie is that its central thesis is bonkers.

[26:13] Yeah.

[26:14] Which is that.

[26:15] And you don't get delicious candy bonkers.

[26:17] No, no.

[26:18] That would be a strange thesis to build a movie around.

[26:21] But you know what?

[26:23] Something that isn't a superhero.

[26:24] No.

[26:25] But this thesis.

[26:26] Thanks, James Cameron.

[26:27] Anyway, Dan, you say this thesis that like PT Barnum collected all these people around

[26:32] him.

[26:33] What at the time in a less enlightened age would be called freaks.

[26:36] But, you know, like these different people.

[26:38] And he like the idea that he did that because it was a place of acceptance and like they

[26:45] could all.

[26:46] Well, the idea that I'm the same thing later on.

[26:49] Something they say later on that we'll get to is them.

[26:51] PT Barnum is told, it's pretty amazing what you did, putting them on display as equals

[26:56] to every normal people.

[26:58] And it's like, well, hold on.

[27:00] What?

[27:01] Usually when someone who looks different is put on display, it is not as an equal.

[27:05] Like it's.

[27:06] Yeah, we'll get to that.

[27:07] But the concept, the idea that the people that Barnum put on in his show, that this

[27:11] was that this was both that this was somehow elevating them, you know, rather than putting

[27:18] them on display for the horrified amusement of of normies like is is a crazy thing.

[27:25] And it's like, well, but we'll the is so we'll we'll get to that point in a moment because

[27:32] his curiosity is museum, which is mainly a wax figure's house.

[27:36] It's the business is slow and his daughters tell him that he needs to put mythical creatures

[27:39] on display.

[27:40] So he shows up and he hires that dwarf.

[27:43] Yep.

[27:44] He gets Perseus and he gives him a magical shield and he's like, chop me off a gorgon

[27:49] head, please.

[27:50] He's like Perseus Medusa.

[27:52] I know you've had your issues, but if you work together this one last time, you'll be

[27:56] set for retirement.

[27:57] And that's where you get the show Feud, Perseus and Medusa on FX.

[28:02] Oh, wow.

[28:03] I have nothing to add to that, but that was a good reference.

[28:08] Oh, thank you.

[28:09] So Barnum goes to this dwarf and he says, hey, what, hey, I don't see you as something

[28:15] to be laughed at.

[28:16] I see you as an inspiring, respectable figure, a military figure, a colonel.

[28:22] People are going to salute you.

[28:23] And the guy's like, oh, all right.

[28:25] And basically through that kind of BS, we then see him signing up like a bearded lady

[28:30] who has a beautiful singing voice, a dog faced boy, a fat man, a tall man, like getting the

[28:35] gang together.

[28:36] Montage.

[28:38] And none of these characters ever are given any personality.

[28:43] They are to the audience of this movie exactly what they were to the audience in Barnum's

[28:48] time, which is weirdos for us to look at to make Barnum seem like a great, cool guy.

[28:54] And they have the bearded lady is that she has a whole song later on about I've got to

[28:59] be me.

[29:00] No one's going to make me feel bad.

[29:01] This was the song that was nominated for an Oscar and which my wife would get really mad

[29:05] because when she was listening to NPR here in California, they would be like, this segment

[29:09] is sponsored by the Academy Award nomination for this song.

[29:13] And they'd play a snippet of the song and she'd be like, I can't stand hearing the same

[29:16] snippet of the song all the time, but like it was bigger.

[29:20] So mad.

[29:21] And she has this whole song about like, you can't make me feel bad.

[29:23] I've got to be me.

[29:24] And I want to be like, who are you?

[29:26] All I know is that you are a woman with a beard who gets mad when people get mad at

[29:31] everybody else, like who occasionally lifts her fist up as if to say, oh, you can't stomp

[29:36] on me.

[29:37] But like none of these characters ever get personalities of any kind.

[29:41] They are not.

[29:42] I mean, the movie, but the message of the movie is Barnum took these people and made

[29:46] them respected as human beings.

[29:48] But the movie doesn't even treat them as human beings.

[29:50] Like they're just props.

[29:51] Like it's real.

[29:52] That's like I would so much rather see a movie about them than a movie about Barnum.

[29:56] It's like I and that doesn't even get to the point which I started worrying about.

[30:00] Which is like, no one in the movie, I assume, except for the man playing Colonel Tom Thumb,

[30:05] no one in the movie seems to have the same body as the character they're playing.

[30:10] They're all in makeup as the bearded lady or tattooed man or whatever.

[30:13] So, like, then the ethics of, what are the ethics of somebody putting on basically what you would call, like,

[30:19] oddity face, you know, to play these characters?

[30:22] Like, it's basically Gary Oldman in Tiptoes, but for everyone except the character who would be in Tiptoes.

[30:29] And it's like, I don't know, the whole thing, it started being like, movie by,

[30:33] the same way that Bright is supposed to be like an anti-racist movie, but it is a very racist movie,

[30:39] this seemed to be kind of like, I'll wrap it up, Dan, don't worry,

[30:42] this seems to be like one of those movies where it's like, we gotta treat these people as people,

[30:48] but the movie doesn't treat them as people.

[30:50] Anyway, I'm sorry, I don't want to get off on a rant here, but that's just my opinion.

[30:54] Maybe I'm wrong.

[30:55] Back to Dennis Miller Live.

[30:56] Yeah, the worst is, the worst are those trapeze artists.

[31:03] What a couple of real freaks.

[31:05] Well, that's the other thing, and there's trapeze artists, and the only thing about them is that they're black.

[31:09] And so it's like, so the movie is like, hey, you know what's like a bearded lady or a man with,

[31:15] what's it called, hypertrichinosis, whatever it's called, when you have hair growing out of every part of your body?

[31:20] Hey, you know what's like that?

[31:21] Being black.

[31:22] And there's no other black characters in the movie, right?

[31:26] Uh, I think you're right.

[31:29] So the subtext is like, hey, Zendaya, by being a trapeze artist who is also a person of color, you're like a bearded lady.

[31:38] Barnum, the latest showman.

[31:39] I mean, they're both valuable people, Elliot.

[31:41] Like, I don't think that that's like the...

[31:43] No, I'm not, but I'm not saying that either one are not valuable people.

[31:47] But I'm saying that it is a weird thing to be like, look at all these, these people are looked down on by society

[31:53] because they don't fit our standards of normality, also black people.

[31:57] Like, it's a very, it's a, it's a strange parallel to make.

[32:01] But anyway, Zendaya gets her own whole subplot later on.

[32:05] So we'll get to that.

[32:07] Because the museum gets really successful.

[32:09] Barnum sings a musical number about how they shouldn't hide.

[32:11] They should be, they should be proud and display themselves.

[32:14] Because nothing says pride in yourself like going on display so someone can pay a nickel to gawk at you.

[32:20] And like...

[32:21] A whole nickel?

[32:22] Where do I sign up?

[32:27] Dan, I got some bad news.

[32:28] What?

[32:29] I don't think you're ready for the nickel stage yet.

[32:31] Oh, no.

[32:32] No, no.

[32:32] Maybe a penny, but you're going to have to do something.

[32:34] Can you bite a head off a chicken?

[32:37] I mean, I can.

[32:40] I mean, that sounds like tough talk, Dan.

[32:42] Dan, there's a, there's a movie I'd like you to see.

[32:44] It's called Nightmare Alley.

[32:45] And I think it's a professional that you can really get behind.

[32:49] Okay.

[32:50] So, the, wait, so I'm confused.

[32:55] Are they putting on, like, big musical shows at the circus?

[32:58] Or is that just because it's a musical?

[33:01] I mean, that's, the way it's put together, it's implied that they're doing musical performances for audiences.

[33:07] That's not the way Barnum worked.

[33:08] The way Barnum worked was like, hey, look at this guy.

[33:11] Hey, look at this lady.

[33:13] But, but they're kind, but I guess, I don't know.

[33:17] You really wasn't the greatest showman.

[33:20] Barnum, the greatest showman.

[33:23] Hey, look at that thing.

[33:24] Hey, look over here.

[33:26] They're like, Barnum, I've had enough of your fast-talking humbuggery.

[33:30] You could, you could, you could talk the shell off a turtle.

[33:33] Yeah, look at that.

[33:34] Hey, look at this thing.

[33:36] Ooh, Barnum danced his words around me.

[33:40] You can't land a blow on him because he's too, he's so eloquent and witty.

[33:43] Hey, look at that.

[33:45] Hey, what's over there?

[33:47] Now, Elliot, you had mentioned that, you had mentioned that, uh, that the character

[33:52] Colonel Tom Thumb or General Tom Thumb stands out for you.

[33:55] Now, is it because in the first scene he was introduced, he calls somebody

[33:58] like a flop doodle or a flop dindle?

[34:00] I did like that.

[34:02] He uses this ridiculous, I don't even know if it's a real insult from the time.

[34:06] He's like, what you're looking at, flop doodle?

[34:08] And I was like, I was like, I want to see more of this character.

[34:12] And I do get to see him, but I don't get to hear him or know him because he

[34:16] has almost no dialogue in the film.

[34:18] But anyway, yeah, the so Barnum's getting successful, but he gets bad press from a

[34:22] character that I didn't even realize till I looked it up on Wikipedia afterwards was

[34:26] supposed to be James Gordon Bennett, one of the most storied newspaper publishers

[34:31] in New York history who everyone hated in real life anyway, but they're getting bad

[34:35] press. People are not accepting his performers.

[34:38] There are protests outside the museum and we get another song.

[34:44] It's they're all these kind of like high energy pump up.

[34:47] Would you call them like stadium ballads or something like that or stadium?

[34:51] They're like they're all anthems.

[34:53] Every song is an anthem in this movie.

[34:56] There's one song that's not as much of an anthem later that I kind of like, but the

[35:00] rest are all it's all like every every song is supposed to be the big show stopping

[35:04] number. You can't make a show out of showstoppers because you know what happens to

[35:07] the show. It just stops.

[35:10] Exactly. And you know who would know not to do that?

[35:12] The greatest showman and the greatest showman was, wait, you know who the greatest

[35:17] showman was? I think I should know this.

[35:21] I'll give you two guesses.

[35:23] I'll give you two guesses.

[35:25] Dan just gave a guess.

[35:27] Yeah. God, what was your guess?

[35:28] No, good.

[35:29] Good guess. The answer.

[35:31] OK, you know, you have one guess.

[35:33] The answer is Jake Cannell, producer of the A-Team, Riptide, all that stuff.

[35:39] What a showman.

[35:40] Rockerfiles.

[35:41] Yeah. And he knew how to rip a piece of paper out of a typewriter so that it would

[35:45] fall into the shape of a letter.

[35:48] Yeah, that does make him the greatest showman, I guess.

[35:50] You know, somewhere somewhere Nick Pizzolatto, the creator of True Detective, is

[35:56] hearing this and is super mad because he thought he was the best.

[36:02] Yeah. Yeah.

[36:04] So so we are talking about a movie.

[36:08] So Barnum is making money, but he is not accepted into the high society circles and

[36:13] his girls get made fun of by the other ballerinas in their ballet class because

[36:18] their dad works in this vulgar world of the circus.

[36:22] So what's Barnum got to do?

[36:24] He's got to get himself kind of like a pretty face that everyone respects.

[36:28] And there's no prettier face in America than Zac Efron.

[36:31] That's right. Zac Efron is like a playwright.

[36:34] He's like a young playwright or play producer.

[36:36] And Barnum asked him to join the circus museum as a business partner.

[36:41] And it's this weird thing where it's like so Zac Efron is already a successful,

[36:45] legit theater guy.

[36:47] And Hugh Jackman's like, hey, but you know what?

[36:50] You're not having fun.

[36:51] So why don't you join me as my apprentice and you'll get 10 percent of the

[36:54] proceeds. Instead of being a wealthy man, you'll do OK, but you'll have fun.

[36:58] And this is the one number in the movie that I enjoyed where it's like the two of

[37:03] them singing and dancing in a bar.

[37:04] And it's like, you know, the song number that they do in Hail Caesar where

[37:08] Channing Tatum is dancing around.

[37:09] Mm hmm. Yeah, this was like a not like a not parody version of that where it's

[37:14] two guys dancing around in a bar, like just being like, I got what I want, but

[37:19] you don't got fun. Like this was the most fun song in the movie to me.

[37:23] Yeah. And it's kind of like a bit of like a dance battle back and forth between

[37:28] them. I think that's being a little charitable.

[37:31] Yeah, well, I guess I do like the bartender who's following behind them,

[37:37] cleaning up for them the whole time.

[37:39] Yeah. There's a part this bartender just literally rushes through and sweeps

[37:44] something off the floor and rushes out again at one point.

[37:47] And I was like, that guy is amazing.

[37:50] The and this is this is the first this is the first major decision that seems to

[37:56] happen in a bar. There's a there's one that happens later as well, which is just

[38:00] it's nice to see that major, major changes in Barnum's life happen when he,

[38:05] I think, later on made a living traveling around as a temperance speaker.

[38:12] So you're saying that this movie really puts the bar in Barnum.

[38:17] Yeah, I guess I am saying that, yeah, that was a the weird poster that they put

[38:21] out for this movie, like everyone was like, why are they who are they trying to

[38:24] appeal to with that line?

[38:26] I guess just bartenders.

[38:28] Yeah, it's an untapped.

[38:29] They're like there's four quadrants of audience.

[38:31] There's young young girls, old people, middle aged people and bartenders.

[38:36] And we are not getting enough penetration on the bartender quadrant.

[38:39] Yeah. I mean, is what's the image on the poster?

[38:42] Because if it just says that, I think some people would be like when they say bars,

[38:46] I'm assuming they mean candy bars.

[38:48] So I'm going to go get one of those candy bars.

[38:51] I mean, it still gets good cross promotion.

[38:53] Now, it makes more sense than the the ad campaign for people suffering from

[38:56] hypothermia where it said he puts the numb in Barnum and they were like, oh,

[39:01] but shivering. Oh, that's not even how you spell the word numb.

[39:04] Oh, I can't feel my hands and feet.

[39:06] Oh, I guess I'll go see that movie.

[39:08] What's he a Dracula there?

[39:09] What's he doing over there?

[39:12] Well, he was shivering in the cold.

[39:15] Are you suggesting Dracula's is cold all the time?

[39:17] I mean, it makes sense.

[39:18] Or he just doesn't know what to say.

[39:19] I mean, yes, he does wear a cape indoors.

[39:22] So, yeah.

[39:25] Oh, yeah, but I'm thinking that's what when I shared an office with Hallie,

[39:29] that's what I should have gotten her as a gift is a warmth cape that she could wear

[39:32] in the office. She's always she's a Dracula.

[39:35] Yeah, not yet.

[39:36] But if she works a little harder, I believe a warmth cape is called a shawl.

[39:40] I believe there's a word for that.

[39:42] I don't think so.

[39:43] I'll call it a warmth cape.

[39:46] Anyway, this was the second number that I liked in the movie.

[39:48] If for those who are keeping track, who are in suspense.

[39:52] Yeah. So anyway, and we still got to find out number number three, that number

[39:57] three. But we'll find out when we get there.

[39:59] Yeah.

[40:00] Give away the secret surprise that the third number was three.

[40:03] So Zac Efron falls in love with Zendaya's acrobat.

[40:07] We know this because they briefly lock eyes in slo-mo,

[40:10] and then she's sassy to him afterwards.

[40:12] Like, because everything in this movie is told in shorthand.

[40:16] But don't worry, they get their duet number later.

[40:18] People are still protesting Barnum's Museum,

[40:20] but they get an invitation to go meet Queen Victoria,

[40:23] and they charm her with their humorous ways.

[40:27] That's, in England, is where Barnum meets

[40:29] opera singer Jenny Lind, the biggest opera star in Europe,

[40:32] and he decides to hire her to class some things up.

[40:35] And she does that by just singing a whole song

[40:38] onstage to an audience, which we see the entirety of.

[40:41] It is not, there's no dancing or dramatization,

[40:44] it's just her onstage singing.

[40:45] And apparently this singer was like

[40:48] Hans Christian Andersen's muse.

[40:50] Guys, I looked at Wikipedia before we did this podcast.

[40:54] I mean, that's great, yeah.

[40:55] I mean, Jenny Lind was a real person, sure.

[40:58] One of the great songbirds.

[41:00] This character's played by Rebecca Ferguson.

[41:02] Yeah, yeah.

[41:03] Of Rogue Nation.

[41:04] Dan, why are you salivating?

[41:06] I don't know, I just, she's great.

[41:07] You're creeping me out, buddy.

[41:10] I was wondering, do you think that everyone

[41:12] sang their own parts?

[41:13] I mean, like, I know that Hugh Jackman and Zac Efron

[41:15] are song and dance men, but do you think Rebecca Ferguson?

[41:18] And definitely, the woman who plays the bearded lady,

[41:20] she sang her song, because she's a Broadway performer.

[41:24] I'm just impressed.

[41:25] She performed at the Academy Awards, right?

[41:27] Yeah.

[41:28] I mean, but people who don't sing

[41:29] perform at the Academy Awards, too.

[41:31] Like Clint Eastwood.

[41:32] Name one.

[41:34] He doesn't have like a weird country band?

[41:37] Well, he does do like kind of jazz,

[41:39] he did release an album of jazz standards, that's true.

[41:41] And he did that spoken word album

[41:44] where it's him talking to a chair.

[41:46] Yep, yeah, it was called Sweet Charity.

[41:50] Sure.

[41:54] Speaking of charity, she doesn't like

[41:56] the look in Barnum's eyes

[41:57] when he's looking at Jenny Lin singing.

[41:59] And Zac Efron does not like the looks

[42:02] that people give him when he holds hands

[42:03] with his acrobat lover.

[42:05] Uh-oh, things are not gonna go well.

[42:09] Why?

[42:10] Because it's the time in the movie

[42:11] when complications has to start.

[42:13] So Barnum is rude to Charity's parents

[42:15] at a rich people's soiree after the Jenny Lin show.

[42:18] This pisses Charity off, and Barnum won't let

[42:21] his usual non-normal, you know, his usual performers

[42:25] into this rich people's soiree.

[42:27] I'm not sure why, like that part of it,

[42:31] I didn't really understand.

[42:32] I think it was important for the narrative,

[42:34] but maybe it's the idea that he,

[42:37] I mean, it's like, because Barnum the whole time

[42:39] is trying to reach to be bigger.

[42:41] Yeah, he's obsessed with class.

[42:43] Yeah.

[42:44] That's true, yeah.

[42:45] He was born low class, so he's trying to mix in.

[42:47] He really wants to be seen as respectable.

[42:49] And he can't be respectable when he's got a lady

[42:52] with a beard standing next to him,

[42:53] or a guy who's super tall.

[42:57] Yeah, and he can't have a guy super tall

[42:59] standing next to him,

[43:00] because it'll just reemphasize how short he is.

[43:02] Yeah, is Hugh Jackman a short guy?

[43:06] I think that people argued against his casting

[43:08] as Wolverine, because he's not that short.

[43:10] Oh, that's true.

[43:11] Well, everyone knew the perfect casting

[43:12] for Wolverine, Stewart.

[43:16] Elliot Kaelin?

[43:18] No, Wizard Magazine choice, Glenn Danzig.

[43:21] Oh, I was just, but I thought that's why

[43:23] you've been growing your body hair out.

[43:25] No, that's because I'm Jewish.

[43:28] No, that's because my people come from a place

[43:31] of cold winters.

[43:31] I guess you're more like a Puck character, right?

[43:33] Yeah.

[43:34] Oh, I would love to play Puck.

[43:35] I mean, I couldn't, because Puck is a bodybuilder.

[43:39] Because Puck is not, and here's the thing.

[43:41] Okay, let's talk about Puck for a moment.

[43:43] Because Puck, famously short,

[43:45] he's not naturally short, though.

[43:47] He was a regular-sized guy who was turned

[43:50] into a short man through mystical means.

[43:52] So like, what are the ethics of that, Alpha Flight?

[43:55] Why couldn't you hire a real super short bodybuilder?

[43:57] You had to get a fake super short bodybuilder?

[43:59] And look at this Sasquatch.

[44:01] Sasquatch is not really a Sasquatch.

[44:03] He's a person who turns into a Sasquatch.

[44:05] Yep.

[44:07] Couldn't hire a real Sasquatch?

[44:08] Come on.

[44:09] No, yep.

[44:10] Alpha Flight, I know it's Canada.

[44:11] You don't have access to all these things,

[44:13] but you gotta have real Sasquatches there.

[44:15] Tell me, come on.

[44:16] Or at least hire like a Wendigo

[44:19] or some other Canada-specific monster.

[44:22] Yep.

[44:23] Now, I know Wendigo is a villain in the Marvel Universe.

[44:26] He's just a monster who runs around.

[44:27] Get one and train him.

[44:29] Make him a good guy.

[44:30] Come on.

[44:31] Yeah.

[44:32] So.

[44:33] Dan, do you have any hot?

[44:34] Oh, also, Box, another Alpha Flight character,

[44:37] not a Box, a robot cyborg type.

[44:40] So Dan, do you have any hot takes about Alpha Flight?

[44:42] No, but Stuart's reaction to your long tirade

[44:47] reminds me of the time that Roman Mars

[44:50] edited Justin McElroy into an episode of 99% Invisible.

[44:55] Oh yeah, smart stuff.

[44:56] Yeah.

[44:57] Yeah, it was a good bit.

[44:58] That was pretty funny.

[44:59] Okay, guys.

[45:00] Wow, so I learned a lot about Alpha Flight.

[45:02] I learned that they need to get their act together.

[45:05] So let's get back to the movie, guys.

[45:07] So all of his regular reformers,

[45:10] they storm this party while singing

[45:12] the Academy Award-nominated anthem,

[45:15] Be Yourself, Stand Trudy, or whatever.

[45:17] I assume that's the title.

[45:18] I think it's This Is Me.

[45:20] Yeah, this is, it was basically,

[45:21] every song in this movie, except for one or two maybe,

[45:24] is that Christina Aguilera, You're Beautiful,

[45:26] No Matter What They Say song.

[45:28] But like, higher energy.

[45:30] Like, it's like they heard that song and they were like.

[45:30] Okay, yeah, it makes me feel a little born this way.

[45:34] Yeah, exactly, yeah.

[45:36] It's a real Gaga-Guaguera mashup.

[45:40] That's Christina.

[45:41] Christina Aguilera and Lady Gaga match together,

[45:43] which would be a horrific thing to do.

[45:45] Why would anyone do that?

[45:46] Couple of songbirds.

[45:47] I'd love to see two songbirds melded together

[45:50] through mystical means.

[45:53] Oh, yeah.

[45:53] So.

[45:54] It would be a real all of me situation.

[45:58] So P.T. Barnum at this point decides

[46:01] it's time to hit the road, Jack.

[46:03] And so he goes on the road with his new singer lady.

[46:07] Jenny Lind.

[46:08] And Zac Efron stands up to his parents

[46:11] about how he loves his acrobat.

[46:13] And there's a love scene duet

[46:14] between Zac Efron and the acrobat

[46:15] where there's a lot of like Cirque du Soleil style

[46:18] like swinging around on a ring that hangs from the ceiling.

[46:21] What's that called?

[46:22] Is that?

[46:24] My wife Charlene called it something like

[46:26] the Spanish harness or something.

[46:28] It's like some kind of, or the Spanish web.

[46:30] It's, cause she's done some light circus training.

[46:35] Oh, wow.

[46:36] Yeah.

[46:37] I didn't know that.

[46:40] So she should be on this podcast from the circus.

[46:43] That's why when I first introduced her to my parents

[46:45] they looked down on her and I'm like,

[46:47] no, I love my trapeze artist wife.

[46:52] They said, we never expected you to go

[46:55] with one of the sawdust and tinsel crowd.

[46:58] It's not befitting a Wellington.

[47:00] Yeah, when Zac Efron shows Zendaya off to his parents

[47:04] like his dad's fucking monocle basically pops

[47:08] out of his head.

[47:09] It's the most.

[47:12] Oh, it's rough.

[47:13] Yeah.

[47:15] Are you descended from the actual Wellington

[47:19] who defeated Napoleon?

[47:21] No, I'm actually descended from the food item.

[47:24] It's a piece of meat wrapped in a flaky puff pastry.

[47:30] That's what you're descended from.

[47:32] Humble origins.

[47:34] It doesn't get more humble.

[47:35] Not even descended from a human being,

[47:37] from a cut off piece of a cow.

[47:40] The thing is, Elliot, we're all created out of carbon.

[47:42] So, you know, anything can happen.

[47:46] That's true, I guess.

[47:47] McWorld, I suppose.

[47:49] It can happen.

[47:52] It's a big world.

[47:53] Don't limit your options.

[47:54] Don't let science, Dan, make sure to insert

[47:58] the quotation marks there.

[47:59] Don't let science limit your imagination, you know.

[48:04] Hey, Hollywood, I got some ideas for you.

[48:07] So, Charity, Barnum's wife, wants him to stop

[48:13] going on tour with Jenny Lind, but he leaves anyway.

[48:16] Charity sings a song about why isn't their life

[48:19] enough for him?

[48:20] Why does he always need more?

[48:22] And Jenny Lind, she gets mad that it turns out

[48:26] Barnum, I guess, doesn't actually return the feelings

[48:29] she has for him.

[48:30] Like, she has a crush on him, but for him

[48:31] it's all just business.

[48:32] And she says, I'm gonna leave after this show.

[48:35] And at the end of the show, as camera bulbs are flashing,

[48:38] she kisses him on stage.

[48:40] Uh-oh, that's not gonna look good in the papers.

[48:43] Actually, it will look very good in the papers,

[48:45] as a scandal, which sells papers.

[48:47] Yeah, and it looks great, because it's not,

[48:49] they don't even publish the photo.

[48:50] They publish, like, a drawing of it, right?

[48:53] Yeah, it's like a woodcut.

[48:54] So, like, I don't know what the purpose

[48:56] of taking the picture was.

[48:56] Yeah, they're like, well, I mean, they had

[48:58] Charles Burns on call, so they're gonna do that.

[49:02] Oh, wow, I didn't realize it was Charles Burns who did it.

[49:07] Yeah, he took a break from doing a cover

[49:09] for Believer Magazine, I guess, to do this Barnum story.

[49:14] So, the rowdies who hate all the non, you know,

[49:20] cis-bodied people, and I guess they're all cis-bodied,

[49:23] because they're in the bodies they were born in.

[49:24] What would you call, like, what's a respectful way

[49:27] to describe someone who, at the time,

[49:29] would have been called, like, an oddity, you know?

[49:31] Yeah, well, that's what I've been struggling with

[49:33] throughout the podcast.

[49:35] Is that why you've said so little?

[49:38] Yeah, I mean, I keep spacing out,

[49:39] because I keep getting concerned

[49:42] with this technical thing with Skype, but it's fine.

[49:47] Oh, I thought it was just you were,

[49:49] in your head, you were just going through

[49:50] all your favorite songs.

[49:51] Yeah.

[49:52] Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

[49:55] What was that one?

[49:56] Ba-da-ba-da, oh.

[49:57] I think that's, this is me, or we are great.

[50:00] All the songs have a chorus in it that's like,

[50:05] huh, huh, huh, huh, or like,

[50:08] oh, da-da-da-da-da-da-da, oh, da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

[50:13] For the longest time.

[50:16] Whoa, for the greatest showman.

[50:21] Oh yeah, the soundtrack's all by Billy Joel, did we not mention that?

[50:24] Oh man, I would love the show so much more.

[50:26] The thing you want at our greatest show circus tent.

[50:31] That was that restaurant song.

[50:33] Yeah, and I don't know.

[50:37] So which song do you guys think if it was put out?

[50:40] Thank you, Stuart.

[50:41] Which song do you think if it was put out as like a radio hit would be like the big hit?

[50:48] You know how like One Night in Bangkok from Chess is such a huge smash?

[50:54] In an earlier episode, I incorrectly said it was an Andrew Lloyd Webber show, right?

[51:01] I can't keep track of all your incorrect statements.

[51:05] Oh, you know, I think what it was, I think I said it was,

[51:08] ah, well, anyway, I incorrectly said something about Chess earlier.

[51:11] I apologize, correction, I don't know what I'm talking about.

[51:14] But yeah, so what you're asking, what would be the big radio hit from it?

[51:20] Maybe the big love thing between Zendaya and Jack Efron.

[51:25] Maybe, it's such a boring song, though.

[51:27] But that seems like the kind of song that becomes a hit, like a crossover.

[51:31] Oh, there was that one song in the movie about how Barnum was a rebel just for kicks, yeah?

[51:36] And he'd been doing it since 1966, yeah?

[51:39] That sounds like that could be a radio hit if it was removed from the song, the context of the movie.

[51:44] Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

[51:47] And there was that one where Jenny Lind was singing about how she doesn't dance now, she makes money move.

[51:54] Yep, now the thing about –

[51:56] That sounds like that could be a radio hit.

[51:58] Is when Jenny Lind comes out to sing for the first time and, like,

[52:01] the movie tries to build on a little bit of anticipation because Barnum at this point hadn't even heard her sing.

[52:07] And she gets up there and everybody's excited.

[52:10] I don't know about you guys, but I was really hoping she was going to do that number from The Fifth Element,

[52:15] where that alien flies.

[52:17] That one that goes to all the different pitches.

[52:20] Oh, man, I would have fucking loved it.

[52:22] If this movie had done that, it would have been the greatest show, man.

[52:27] She slowly puts on a hat that looks like the tentacles.

[52:31] Yeah.

[52:33] But what if she just put on a big, like, just put on a big Jamiroquai hat and just did their song?

[52:39] No.

[52:40] And everyone's like –

[52:42] Virtual insanity?

[52:43] That's right.

[52:44] And she starts –

[52:46] Going around on the stage like they do in the music videos?

[52:50] Because it's – he's like – she goes out on stage and he's like, I haven't even heard her sing yet.

[52:55] Well, she's already a famous opera singer.

[52:57] She was famous enough that Queen Victoria asked her to perform for her.

[53:00] So, like, that's a pretty good recommendation.

[53:03] It's a little bit like – there are certain performers that, like –

[53:08] Like, if you asked me to – like, if you said, have you ever seen, like –

[53:16] I'm trying to think of who's a big musician.

[53:20] Like, if you were like, have you heard any Adele songs?

[53:23] No, I haven't.

[53:24] Well, she's a number one pop recording artist.

[53:26] Are you going to hire her for your concert?

[53:28] I guess so.

[53:29] But I don't know if she's any good.

[53:31] Well, she's already, like, a platinum-selling recording artist.

[53:33] So it's not that big a risk.

[53:35] Yeah.

[53:37] But I think that part of it is just that he's beguiled by her.

[53:41] Okay.

[53:42] Yeah, that's pretty much what Beguiled is about.

[53:44] Yeah.

[53:45] It is?

[53:46] Yeah, the Beguiled is all about P.T. Barnum and Jenny Lin.

[53:48] Yeah, the Beguiled is actually just a five-minute segment of this movie.

[53:52] Oh, wow.

[53:53] That they cut out.

[53:55] There's a lot of credit.

[53:56] Unfortunately.

[53:57] Okay, so Barnum's life seems to be at its lowest ebb.

[54:00] But that ebb is about to get even lower because those rowdies, they attack the theater.

[54:05] There's a fight between them and the performers.

[54:07] Oh, yeah, this is what I was trying to figure out there.

[54:09] This is why I'm going to call them the performers because it's hard for me to think of a name for them that's not dismissive or derisive.

[54:14] And one of the rowdies starts a fire, and the museum burns down, which is a real –

[54:19] And they start a fight, and at that point you're like, why did they pick a fight with them?

[54:24] Because, like, they all have these performing skills.

[54:27] Like, even Oro from Street Fighter III, who only fights with one arm, just fucks people up, dude.

[54:34] Like, they're doing all these, like, flip attacks on them.

[54:37] Yeah, that's true.

[54:38] What were they thinking?

[54:39] And the fat man, like, bounces a guy away with his belly, which is like, okay, now he's just the blob from X-Men.

[54:44] Like, that's not cool.

[54:46] That doesn't happen in real life.

[54:47] That's not how bellies work.

[54:50] Wait, but wait.

[54:52] When you grow a giant belly, it doesn't become super dense and tough and less sensitive to pain?

[54:58] No, it becomes none of those things.

[55:01] Yeah, it also doesn't have the recoil of a big pink rubber ball.

[55:06] Let my friend Baron Munchausen introduce you to his friends who have similar abilities, I guess.

[55:14] Zac Efron gets very badly hurt, and Barnum runs into the fire to save him.

[55:19] Barnum shows up in town just in time to catch the fire.

[55:23] And he's in the hospital, and Zendaya's watching over him, seemingly constantly all the time.

[55:28] I'm saying that Barnum is such a great guy, and he's, like, immune to collapsing buildings.

[55:36] And he saves Zac Efron's life.

[55:38] He's just amazing.

[55:40] He's just the best guy.

[55:42] He's the sweetest, loveliest man.

[55:45] Did you guys check his life?

[55:48] Did he actually save a guy from a fire?

[55:51] I didn't go deep into Barnum's life, no.

[55:53] Did you, Elliot?

[55:54] I mean, his museum did burn down, but I don't think he ran in and saved anybody's life.

[55:59] And I do love that he's, like, sitting on the steps of his burned-down museum when the reporter shows up and talks to him,

[56:09] and then hands him a newspaper that's basically like, Barnum's life is ruined.

[56:13] And he's like, what?

[56:15] What happened to me?

[56:17] This reporter who has hated Barnum this whole time, he's the one who's been writing all these articles about how Barnum is bad.

[56:23] Get him out of here.

[56:24] He shows up and he goes, you know, someone, some other critic might say that by elevating these people and showing them as equals,

[56:32] you were celebrating them and doing a great thing for humanity.

[56:37] Like, this is the moment where this character comes in and is like, you've opened my eyes to the power of putting people on display

[56:45] because they are formed differently than everybody else.

[56:49] You really showed me that by exploiting these people, you're the hero and I'm the asshole.

[56:54] So kudos to you, Barnum.

[56:56] Here's a newspaper that says you're having an affair.

[56:58] Your life's ruined.

[56:59] See ya!

[57:00] See ya!

[57:02] It's a real see-ya-wouldn't-want-to-be-ya moment.

[57:05] Yeah, it's great.

[57:06] Like, his reaction to finding out his life is ruined is hilarious.

[57:11] And the bank takes his home.

[57:13] His wife leaves him.

[57:15] Barnum, all that he can do is put the bar in Barnum and go back to a bar that is decorated with photos of his own personal history,

[57:22] which is kind of weird.

[57:23] Does he own that bar?

[57:25] No, I mean, I think it's like one of those themed, it's like a plan of Hollywood.

[57:29] Let's see.

[57:30] It's a Barnum's personal life themed bar.

[57:33] Yeah, it's got family photos.

[57:36] It's a bar with pictures of him and his family on the walls.

[57:39] Uh-huh.

[57:40] Yeah.

[57:41] And he's drinking, maybe to death, until those lucky people, those personalityless people who, without Barnum,

[57:50] who had been forced to hide themselves rather than charging people money to look at them,

[57:54] they come in and they say, hey, Barnum, you gave us pride in ourselves.

[57:58] You gave us a family, and you gave us a home.

[58:01] And does this, do you think this leads to a rousing musical number about how they're never going to give up

[58:06] and they're going to be true to themselves where they dance around the bar?

[58:10] No, they probably just cut away because that seems like the end of the scene.

[58:14] Dan, au contraire.

[58:16] I hate to break it to you.

[58:18] We get a rousing musical number about, hey, things are going to be good.

[58:22] It's like Barnum has been at a low ebb for maybe, what, two minutes of screen time,

[58:27] and it's time for another, like, rousing, we're the best, everybody's great, Barnum, go get them,

[58:31] you're the hero of the world.

[58:33] And this was one of those points where it was like,

[58:36] it's just like, oh, all the circus performers are dancing, and it's like,

[58:41] I started feeling weird again about, like, my relationship to them as an onlooker, as a spectator, you know?

[58:47] At what point was I, like, was I culpable in treating them as objects because the,

[58:54] let's just say, the dancing is great.

[58:56] All the dancers in the movie are really fantastic.

[58:58] But to have them dancing while dressed as, like, kind of human oddity performers,

[59:03] it just opens up a can of worms that I don't want to open.

[59:05] Keep that can of worms closed.

[59:07] In fact, why are you handing me a can of worms that's open?

[59:10] I don't need worms.

[59:11] I'm not a fisherman.

[59:12] Yeah, why do they put worms in a can anyway, right?

[59:15] Yeah, it's not good for the worms.

[59:17] I mean, it's certainly not a sealed can.

[59:21] No, it's sealed at the factory for freshness.

[59:24] Those poor worms.

[59:25] Get me a can of Campbell's chicken and star soup.

[59:28] That's what I want because I'm a kid and I'm sick.

[59:32] Well, it's Campbell's.

[59:33] Dan, why are you making a podcast?

[59:35] Yeah, Joseph Campbell, pluck the stars out of the sky and put them in soup form for me

[59:42] so I can achieve my dreams of eating the very universe itself.

[59:47] Okay.

[59:48] And chicken.

[59:49] We're so close to the end, I feel like.

[59:52] Of everything?

[59:54] Yeah.

[59:56] Zac Efron's alive.

[59:57] They hang out in the ruins of the.

[1:00:00] the circus and then they're like, Hey, let's just do another one.

[1:00:04] Yeah.

[1:00:04] Well, they're like, and then everyone's like equal partners, right?

[1:00:08] And all the performers are like, yay.

[1:00:11] They're equal partners, even though we're the ones who are

[1:00:15] putting this thing into motion again.

[1:00:18] And they realize that you guys are making a lot of money off of us.

[1:00:22] Yeah.

[1:00:22] But they realized that buying, uh, land in Manhattan is prohibitively expensive.

[1:00:28] So instead they're like, we could just put a tent up and that'd be where we

[1:00:33] perform and I assume later on, they're like, Hey, we can move this tent around

[1:00:38] to different, different cities, but we don't see that part.

[1:00:41] No, you don't, you don't, the audience has to make that connection.

[1:00:45] Yeah.

[1:00:45] The franchising part of it doesn't get into it.

[1:00:47] There's a great scene where, uh, where he goes to fetch his, to try and

[1:00:52] convince his wife to take him back.

[1:00:54] And he goes to her parents' house and her dad is like waiting at the door.

[1:00:58] And he's like, I'd like to see my wife and her dad's like, she ain't here.

[1:01:04] Like it's the most hilarious and like, and then the kids are immediately like,

[1:01:08] Oh yeah, she's down at the beach.

[1:01:10] Like it's the lamest thing.

[1:01:12] And he goes and apologizes to her.

[1:01:14] Now here's the thing that I, I didn't fully realize is so Zac Efron's

[1:01:17] character is supposed to be Bailey, right?

[1:01:19] From Barnum and Bailey.

[1:01:21] Why didn't they just, why didn't they just name him Bailey?

[1:01:25] Yeah.

[1:01:26] Cause that's, I kind of wish the movie ended with, uh, they're doing this big

[1:01:29] show and they have, again, they have a big musical number about how they're great.

[1:01:32] Now there's CGI animals involved.

[1:01:33] It's really amazing.

[1:01:35] And Barnum retires.

[1:01:37] He, uh, he says, Zac Efron, you take over.

[1:01:40] I'm going to live my life.

[1:01:41] And he goes and watches his daughter's dance recital.

[1:01:43] I wish that during that big number and had panned over to do guys, two identical

[1:01:47] twins, and it just says Ringling brothers on their shirts and they go, Oh, I think

[1:01:52] there's something here.

[1:01:55] Yeah.

[1:01:55] The, uh, I'm surprised that they didn't do a thing where he, uh, where as he's

[1:02:01] leaving, he's like, now I'm going to go join a real circus, American politics.

[1:02:08] Those clowns in Washington.

[1:02:10] Cause, uh, thanks once again, thanks to Wikipedia guys.

[1:02:15] I looked at Wikipedia today.

[1:02:16] Okay.

[1:02:17] Uh, yeah, he was like, he was a mayor of what Bridgeport, Connecticut for a while.

[1:02:21] Oh, wow.

[1:02:22] So, yeah.

[1:02:23] And, uh, yeah.

[1:02:24] And that's the, but that's the great story of the greatest showman.

[1:02:25] It ends with another big musical number.

[1:02:27] We've seen a bunch and now we've seen another.

[1:02:30] And Dan, was that the one you liked?

[1:02:31] Was that the third one?

[1:02:32] The one with the answers?

[1:02:32] No, we didn't even talk about the third one, which was, uh, there was a big

[1:02:36] number between Zendaya and Zac Efron on like an aerialist rope.

[1:02:40] Yeah.

[1:02:40] We talked about that.

[1:02:42] Did we?

[1:02:42] Yeah.

[1:02:43] I called it like a Spanish web or something.

[1:02:45] Yeah.

[1:02:45] Oh, are you okay?

[1:02:47] Maybe it was because you called it something that I was totally unfamiliar

[1:02:50] with that I was like, what, what are you saying?

[1:02:52] Like, to me, that's just aerialism.

[1:02:55] Wow.

[1:02:55] Okay.

[1:02:56] Sorry.

[1:02:57] It's all aerialism to me, says Billy Joel.

[1:02:59] Didn't mean to piss you off.

[1:03:00] All right.

[1:03:01] Cool.

[1:03:01] Well, calm down, dude.

[1:03:04] No one's arguing with you about this.

[1:03:06] Call it whatever you want.

[1:03:07] We don't care.

[1:03:07] It's fine.

[1:03:09] Look, I just get really mad about aerialism.

[1:03:11] Okay.

[1:03:12] Whoa.

[1:03:13] Whoa.

[1:03:15] We're going to have to cut all this stuff out.

[1:03:16] People are going to get really mad about Dan's feelings.

[1:03:18] So we, uh, and we get to see some elephants.

[1:03:21] That's great.

[1:03:21] It's nice to see elephants in the circus, right?

[1:03:24] Dan?

[1:03:24] Uh, no, Stuart, they are abused creatures.

[1:03:28] I mean, it is, it is amazing how, do we talk about this when we talked about going

[1:03:33] to see the last Ringling Brothers shows that like they, the elephants are what

[1:03:38] makes the circus like they announced, we're not, you know, we're not doing

[1:03:42] elephants anymore and people stopped going to the circus.

[1:03:45] And the circus that had been around for 160 years, shut down like that's crazy.

[1:03:50] People love elephants and you know what?

[1:03:52] Yeah.

[1:03:52] Cause they're incredible animals.

[1:03:54] I'm not immune to it.

[1:03:55] I love elephants.

[1:03:56] Just call me a sufferer from, of elephantiasis.

[1:03:58] I love elephants too.

[1:04:00] Call me the elephant man.

[1:04:02] I love elephants.

[1:04:03] Sure.

[1:04:04] That's how, is that how he got, is that how John Merrick got his name?

[1:04:06] Cause he loved the animal, the elephant.

[1:04:08] That's it actually wasn't related to his, his terrible, terrible

[1:04:12] disability that he had to suffer under.

[1:04:14] It was all about, cause he loved elephants so much.

[1:04:16] Okay.

[1:04:16] And we all agree that that's the most ridiculous part of that movie though.

[1:04:19] When like his mom, I guess gets trampled by an elephant at the beginning of it.

[1:04:24] It's kind of unclear exactly what happened.

[1:04:26] The greatest showman.

[1:04:27] I don't remember that one.

[1:04:28] No.

[1:04:28] When the elephant, the elephant man.

[1:04:30] Yeah.

[1:04:30] Well, it's, it's, I guess it's supposed to be metaphorical.

[1:04:32] Here's the thing about the elephant man.

[1:04:34] He didn't really love elephants that much, but it was one of those things

[1:04:37] where like he had a couple elephants and he was like, I'm not going to be

[1:04:41] he had a couple elephant things and people were like, Oh, he likes elephant stuff.

[1:04:46] I'll get him elephant stuff for his birthday.

[1:04:48] Yeah.

[1:04:48] Every time people are on vacation and they see like a little

[1:04:51] carving of an elephant, they go buy it.

[1:04:53] Exactly.

[1:04:54] They're like, John would like this.

[1:04:56] Uh, so final judgments, was this a good, bad movie, a bad, bad movie

[1:04:59] or a movie you kind of liked Stuart?

[1:05:00] What do you have to say?

[1:05:02] Oh man.

[1:05:02] Uh, you know, I'm, I'm not super guys, you know, I'm not

[1:05:07] super experienced with musicals.

[1:05:09] Uh, I, I kinda, I'm kinda being a harsh critic on the music for this one.

[1:05:14] Cause I've been spending the last week just listening to Nightfall and

[1:05:17] Middle-earth by Blind Guardian, which is their album about the Silmarillion.

[1:05:22] And it's really great.

[1:05:23] Uh, so I'd like to recommend that tonight.

[1:05:26] Uh, but, uh, no, this is, I mean, this is a, this is a big movie, original movie

[1:05:31] musical, um, and I don't think the music is paced particularly well and the

[1:05:38] subject matter is a little concerning.

[1:05:40] So I would say this is a bad, bad movie.

[1:05:43] Yeah.

[1:05:44] I kind of wanted to like this because everyone's putting their whole heart

[1:05:48] into it and I like it when they try something like doing a, a big

[1:05:53] movie musical that's original.

[1:05:55] I mean, like that's, it's good to have that kind of, uh, diversity

[1:06:00] and types of films out there.

[1:06:01] Um, but, uh, yeah, the core premise of the movie kept me from enjoying it

[1:06:08] enough to recommend it as anything other than a bad, bad movie.

[1:06:12] I think I would've liked it more as a stage show than I liked it as a movie,

[1:06:17] but it's still, I like, yeah, I want to give it, I want to give it more

[1:06:21] credit for its intentions than I end up wanting to give it for its execution.

[1:06:26] You know, so I'm going to say, I'm going to go with the flow on this one, guys.

[1:06:30] I'm going to just follow the crowd on this one.

[1:06:32] I'm not going to be a Barnum and stand up for difference.

[1:06:35] I'm just going to go with you guys.

[1:06:42] Is there a dog in a car at a bar on the street?

[1:06:47] I'm Alay Gringo, a small dog owner.

[1:06:49] My dog Pistachio howls when she's excited.

[1:06:51] And I'm Rita Culvert, a big dog owner.

[1:06:53] My dog Tugboat tips over when he's sleepy.

[1:06:55] And we co-host a podcast called Can I Pet Your Dog that airs every Tuesday.

[1:06:58] We bring you all things dog.

[1:07:00] Yes, dog news, dog tech, dogs we met this week.

[1:07:03] We also have pretty famous guests on butt legs.

[1:07:05] We're not going to let them talk about their projects.

[1:07:07] No, just want to hear about those dogs.

[1:07:09] We don't want to hear about your stuff, only your dogs.

[1:07:10] So join us every Tuesday on MaxFun.

[1:07:19] Thank you so much to the over 28,000 members who joined or upgraded

[1:07:22] during the 2018 MaxFun Drive and to all of our monthly members.

[1:07:26] You showed up in full force to help us reach our goal,

[1:07:29] to show our appreciation.

[1:07:30] We're putting up this year's batch of MaxFun Drive

[1:07:32] exclusive enamel pins on sale for all $10 and up monthly members.

[1:07:37] And just like last year, we're giving all the profits to charity.

[1:07:39] For 2018, we're supporting the National Immigration Law Center.

[1:07:42] The sale will run from May 18 through May 28.

[1:07:45] So don't miss it.

[1:07:46] $10 and up monthly members will be receiving personalized code

[1:07:49] and instructions to purchase pins on May 17.

[1:07:52] So keep your inbox open and notifications on.

[1:07:55] For more details, head over to maximumfun.org slash pins.

[1:07:58] And to learn more about the National Immigration Law Center

[1:08:01] and support them directly, you can go to NILC.org.

[1:08:12] Well, we should move on to first thank our sponsors,

[1:08:17] or in this case, we have one sponsor.

[1:08:21] Archie is currently right under Stuart's chin.

[1:08:24] Yeah, Stuart's face was framed by a cat, which was adorable.

[1:08:28] Uh, so that's a little peek behind the curtain to what's happening

[1:08:32] on the table here at Flophouse HQ.

[1:08:36] Dan, did we have a sponsor?

[1:08:37] Do we not have a sponsor?

[1:08:39] Flophouse is sponsored in part by Blue Apron.

[1:08:43] Mmm, yummy. Blue Apron delivers farm fresh,

[1:08:46] perfectly portioned ingredients and step by step recipes

[1:08:50] so you can make incredible meals at home.

[1:08:53] Rediscover how fun cooking can be while enjoying specialty ingredients

[1:08:57] and exploring new flavors and cuisines.

[1:08:59] Get $30 off your first order by visiting BlueApron.com slash Flophouse.

[1:09:06] So if you want to make food,

[1:09:09] but if you don't like going through all that trouble of making food,

[1:09:12] but you're still sort of making food, the Blue Apron is for you.

[1:09:15] I don't think that's exclusively the draw.

[1:09:17] I think the draw is also not having to go to the store and buy bulk ingredients

[1:09:23] that you're going to use part of and then throw most of away

[1:09:26] because it's less wasteful.

[1:09:28] Yeah. And also the food tastes good.

[1:09:32] Yeah, I mean, that's always right to your door.

[1:09:34] That's always a benefit with food when it tastes good.

[1:09:37] Yeah. All right. All right.

[1:09:38] Turn down the blast, buddy.

[1:09:40] Sorry, Rodney Dangerfield.

[1:09:41] Oh, wow. Somebody give me my fucking my pan holders.

[1:09:45] I don't burn myself on those hot takes.

[1:09:47] Yeah. So can anyone have any ointment for the burn I just sustained?

[1:09:53] We don't have any jumbotrons this week.

[1:09:54] Hey, look, I'll just say about Blue Apron, we've all had personal good

[1:09:57] experiences with Blue Apron. It's good stuff.

[1:10:00] We don't have any Jumbotrons, but we do have something to promote for ourselves, right Dan?

[1:10:05] Yeah, I was first going to say, if you want to get up on the Jumbotron, it's MaximumFun.org slash Jumbotron.

[1:10:11] But are you talking about our live shows, Elliot?

[1:10:14] I am talking about our live shows. Oh yeah, the Flophouse is going on tour.

[1:10:18] We're going to three places. It's the biggest, it's our world tour.

[1:10:22] Yep.

[1:10:23] There's still tickets available for all of these shows, except possibly the one in Brooklyn,

[1:10:27] because the Bell House has been tweeting out that there's only a few seats left, so I don't know where that's at.

[1:10:33] There's a chance that is not just a marketing ploy, that in fact it might be sold out.

[1:10:38] It is stranger than fiction, so it's probably a fact.

[1:10:42] You can check on any of these shows at the FlophousePodcast.com, or just FlophousePodcast.com slash event.

[1:10:53] I was going to say the FlophousePodcast.com page, but then I realized that it was confusing halfway through my sentence.

[1:10:59] And you said, no, no, no, just FlophousePodcast.com, which is also not the correct URL.

[1:11:04] Yeah, it is.

[1:11:05] It's not just FlophousePodcast.com.

[1:11:08] Okay, well you're right there.

[1:11:10] So it's FlophousePodcast.com slash events, and yeah, May 26th, we're going to be in Washington, D.C.

[1:11:18] We're talking about Geostorm.

[1:11:20] June 7th, we're in Brooklyn talking about the Dark Tower.

[1:11:23] And June 30th, we'll be in Seattle talking about the mummy.

[1:11:27] In a way, there's a theme.

[1:11:29] I don't know if you can see it, but mummies sometimes live in dark towers, and they often cause geostorms.

[1:11:37] No.

[1:11:39] Wait, so would you call a pyramid a dark tower?

[1:11:41] Because that's where mummies always live.

[1:11:43] I mean at night.

[1:11:45] Okay, fair.

[1:11:47] Can something with that wide a base be called a tower?

[1:11:50] I mean, it's not a hole.

[1:11:52] There's only two options here.

[1:11:54] Either something's a hole or a tower?

[1:11:56] Is that the dichotomy you're positing here?

[1:12:00] I mean, I haven't finished architecture school, Dan.

[1:12:03] But that was the introduction.

[1:12:06] Every building is either a hole or a tower.

[1:12:10] Which one you choose to focus on is entirely up to your personal taste.

[1:12:15] That's an architecture professor.

[1:12:17] Professor? What's this architecture professor's name?

[1:12:20] Wilhelm von Gutenstein.

[1:12:24] Okay, and does he also have adventures—

[1:12:26] That's German for Goodstein.

[1:12:28] Yeah.

[1:12:30] And the government comes to him and is like,

[1:12:34] the Nazis are trying to get a hold of a mystical building. We need your help.

[1:12:38] And he's like, ah, because that building belongs in a museum.

[1:12:42] That's right.

[1:12:44] Saves the day with the aid of, I don't know, Zeppelin or something.

[1:12:47] And then they reveal that there's actually a third type of building, and that's—

[1:12:51] I'm not going to spoil it, but it's great.

[1:12:53] Okay.

[1:12:56] So those are our shows.

[1:12:58] If you're in the D.C. area, go May 26th.

[1:13:00] If you're in the New York area, go June 7th.

[1:13:02] If you're in the Seattle area, go June 30th.

[1:13:05] And I think I mentioned this last time.

[1:13:07] I'm going to push myself, and I'm going to try to do presentations at those shows

[1:13:10] that are only for those shows and never again.

[1:13:12] So if you want exclusive Elliot Kalin jokes, you've got to go to those shows.

[1:13:16] Dan, I've just got to let you know that your cat's breath smells like fish.

[1:13:20] Okay.

[1:13:21] So good job for that report.

[1:13:23] I mean, I guess you're confirming that I feed my cat, which is a good thing.

[1:13:27] Here's how I assume you feed your cat, Dan.

[1:13:29] You hand it a whole fish, and it just dips it into its mouth and then pulls the bones out.

[1:13:33] Yeah.

[1:13:35] What does it do with those bones?

[1:13:36] As one complete skeleton.

[1:13:37] Does it play those bones like a little xylophone?

[1:13:39] You know it.

[1:13:40] In a band with its cat buddies?

[1:13:41] And then if I crank Archie's tail, it plays Turkey in the Straw.

[1:13:48] Now, Dan, before you knew that it could play that song,

[1:13:50] that would be a cruel thing to do to just crank a cat's tail.

[1:13:53] You're lucky a song played.

[1:13:55] Yeah, Archie loves it.

[1:13:57] Music has charms to soothe the savage beast.

[1:14:00] So anyway.

[1:14:03] Speaking of savage beasts, what do we do next on the podcast?

[1:14:06] Next we talk to you, savage beasts, out there in email land.

[1:14:10] People send us emails, and we answer them.

[1:14:12] It's called the Flophouse Movie Mailbag, or it was at one point,

[1:14:15] and then we stopped calling it that.

[1:14:17] Okay, now, guys, for this one, now you know me.

[1:14:19] I like to do a song before the mailbags.

[1:14:21] And for this one, I thought I'd do a huge show-stopping power anthem number,

[1:14:26] just like in The Greatest Showman.

[1:14:28] And I'd start it off kind of quiet.

[1:14:29] It would be something about how, like, these are the letters, the letters of your life.

[1:14:33] Don't lose the letters.

[1:14:34] And then it would grow and grow, and you'd have, like, a chorus in the background.

[1:14:37] You guys would go, like, whoa, oh, whoa, oh, oh, oh, whoa, oh, whoa.

[1:14:42] And the music would get bigger and bigger, and then, like, the lights would go on,

[1:14:45] and I'd be like, letter time.

[1:14:47] And then it would be really big, and there'd be, like, a thousand performers

[1:14:49] and, like, 10,000 voices all chiming in together,

[1:14:53] and they're kind of, like, weaving in and out of each other.

[1:14:55] Sometimes there's some auto-tuning and, like, vocoder, but not always.

[1:14:58] And I'm, like, the center of this whirlpool of sound and, like, letter songs,

[1:15:02] and, like, all the letters are singing, and they're all played by famous performers.

[1:15:06] You know, like, John Legend is one of the letters,

[1:15:08] and probably, like, Beyonce is another one of the letters,

[1:15:11] and, like, I don't know, like, the ghost of Frank Sinatra is one of the letters.

[1:15:15] Like, all the biggest singers from history.

[1:15:17] Jenny Lin herself shows up in the form of, like, and everyone's like, what, the real one?

[1:15:22] And they all applaud.

[1:15:23] That's a show-stopping point.

[1:15:25] Now, while this song is going on, we're also seeing this montage of, like,

[1:15:29] where we're going, the adventures we're having with these letters,

[1:15:32] people writing the letters and putting them in the mail.

[1:15:34] Maybe there's, like, a little kid who, like, really wants a dad and, like, sends us a letter.

[1:15:39] And maybe there's, like, a girl who's really pretty,

[1:15:43] but she doesn't have the confidence to believe in herself, and she sends us a letter.

[1:15:46] And maybe there's, like, somebody who just needs the strength to, like, finish their physical therapy

[1:15:52] and learn how to walk again, and they're going to send us a letter.

[1:15:55] And, like, God writes us a letter in lightning bolts on, like, a big tablet,

[1:15:59] and he gives it to Moses to send to us.

[1:16:01] Like Zeus?

[1:16:03] Yeah, I mean, that's a god.

[1:16:04] I was talking about the main god.

[1:16:06] Oh, okay, capital G.

[1:16:08] Yeah, exactly, capital G, then a dash, and then a capital D.

[1:16:11] And so, like, it's just all these letters are coming together,

[1:16:14] and then it's, like, us digging through the mailbags while the song is going on,

[1:16:17] just like, ba-da-da-ba-da-da-ba-ba, letters, letters, letters, da-da-da-ba-ba-ba,

[1:16:21] letters, oh-oh-oh-oh-oh, letters.

[1:16:25] And then it shows us going on in our lives and how the letters affect us,

[1:16:28] and our letters, our responses save the lives of all these people

[1:16:31] and give them the things that kind of answer the fantasies

[1:16:34] and the needs that they didn't even know how they had.

[1:16:36] And there's a lot of, like, this is your moment, the letters, yeah, the fantasy,

[1:16:39] never leave, this is the world, the letters.

[1:16:41] And, like, there's a rap breakdown, and, like, all the biggest rappers in history are there.

[1:16:45] It's like MC Hammer's there, Kanye West is there, Tupac Shakur is there, Biggie Smalls.

[1:16:50] Oh, that's a deep well, yeah.

[1:16:52] Tupac and Biggie hug, and the feud is over.

[1:16:55] Oh, wow, okay.

[1:16:56] And, like, everyone's just roaring that this song has managed to do these things,

[1:17:00] and the John T. letter himself, the man who invented the letter, walks out,

[1:17:04] and he bestows garlands on each of us for bringing this to, like, its greatest conclusion.

[1:17:10] And it follows us as, like, the glory of this keeps with us through all our days

[1:17:14] until the day all of us are dying on our deathbed together in a three-person deathbed.

[1:17:19] And we die, and when we die, we dissolve into gold dust,

[1:17:22] and that gold dust gets turned into ink to write the greatest letter ever written.

[1:17:26] And then it's like, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da.

[1:17:28] Gold dust the wrestler?

[1:17:29] Yeah, da, da, da, ba, ba, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da.

[1:17:32] And it just goes, bow!

[1:17:34] And we just see that final letter, and the little kid gets it,

[1:17:37] and he's about to open it up and find out what that letter says.

[1:17:40] And that's the number.

[1:17:42] Oh, that's kind of like the end of, what is that, Irredeemable, the Mark Waid comic?

[1:17:46] Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[1:17:47] That inspires Simon Schuster.

[1:17:49] Oh, Segal and Schuster, not Simon Schuster.

[1:17:51] So, anyway, that's the number I wanted to do, and it starts like this.

[1:17:55] No, no, no.

[1:17:57] I'm going to do the number now.

[1:17:58] No, we lost the, no, no more time.

[1:18:01] We're losing our lease on the flop house.

[1:18:05] I've got a 55-minute show-stopping musical number to do.

[1:18:10] I don't want to have to tell the affiliates we're going along tonight.

[1:18:13] Oh, so I guess I'll just go tell Tupac and Biggie that they're getting pushed

[1:18:16] the next episode?

[1:18:17] They're going to love that.

[1:18:18] They'll be bummed.

[1:18:20] All right, let's do these letters.

[1:18:23] This first one is from Matthew Lasto.

[1:18:25] Matthew Lasto.

[1:18:26] He writes, I'd like to address the claims made by the alleged Elliot Kalin.

[1:18:31] Wait, is he alleging that I'm not Elliot Kalin?

[1:18:35] Well, we'll see by the end of the letter.

[1:18:37] Okay.

[1:18:38] At the end of virtually every episode, Elliot claims that he is himself

[1:18:41] and will always be himself, but how can he be sure?

[1:18:44] Even by the time the podcast goes public, he may have changed significantly

[1:18:48] and permanently, thus rendering his past promises null and void.

[1:18:52] The fact that Elliot, one of my three favorite floppers,

[1:18:55] has such a cavalier attitude about his future does nothing for my chronic anxiety.

[1:18:59] He's a son, for God's sake.

[1:19:01] So my question is this.

[1:19:03] What is your favorite kind of movie to discuss on The Flophouse?

[1:19:05] Bad, bad, good, bad, or kind of likable?

[1:19:07] Matthew, last name withheld.

[1:19:10] Well, a lot of accusations were leveled there, and I have to admit, it's true.

[1:19:14] Your skin cells and your body cells overturn after a certain amount of time,

[1:19:17] and you become physically a different person than you were.

[1:19:20] So it's the thing.

[1:19:22] You have a hammer.

[1:19:23] You replace the head of the hammer.

[1:19:24] You replace the handle of the hammer.

[1:19:25] Is it still the same hammer that you started with?

[1:19:27] I'll leave that one to the philosophers.

[1:19:29] Philosophers like Stu Wellington.

[1:19:31] Stu, what do you think?

[1:19:33] I mean, I guess it's still your hammer.

[1:19:39] Certainly.

[1:19:41] Why are you saying it like that?

[1:19:44] It's my hammer.

[1:19:47] Just through the transference of matter.

[1:19:51] So my favorites are the good, bads.

[1:19:55] Okay.

[1:19:56] Yeah.

[1:19:57] I'm in agreement with that.

[1:19:59] Do you want to say anything about what I said?

[1:20:00] I know it's okay, you don't have to.

[1:20:02] It's kind of a...

[1:20:03] Asked and answered by Dan himself.

[1:20:07] It's kind of the purpose of the podcast, so I'm

[1:20:11] still excited whenever we find a good, bad... Dan's always on the hunt.

[1:20:15] You'd call him a hunter of sorts, and he's hunting

[1:20:19] for movies

[1:20:21] that are good, bad movies. I was trying to come up with some kind of

[1:20:25] way to fit Milf Hunter into a joke, and I just got too tired.

[1:20:29] I thought you were just going to say it outright. I didn't even think you were going to try and go for a clever way of...

[1:20:34] I mean, I tried, and then I gave up, because

[1:20:37] yeah, you know, I'm not very good at this.

[1:20:40] All right. Elliot, what do you have to say?

[1:20:41] Movies I like to flop, hunter. That's the joke. Milf Hunter for Dan is movies I like to flop, hunter.

[1:20:47] Oh, yeah, I guess that makes sense, yeah.

[1:20:49] So, yeah, I mean, good, bad movies are the most fun to watch,

[1:20:53] and certainly... There are some times when it's a bad, bad movie that I enjoy talking about with you guys because

[1:20:58] we can live the pain together,

[1:21:00] but, yeah, good, bad movies are super fun.

[1:21:02] And I'll never forget the day you guys made me turn my food fight choice.

[1:21:07] You convinced me to turn it from bad, bad to good, bad. And you know what? I never looked back.

[1:21:11] Yeah. So, thank you, guys.

[1:21:13] Thank you for being a friend.

[1:21:16] Okay. Traveled down the road and back again.

[1:21:18] Oh, okay.

[1:21:19] Stuart's taking his cans off, and...

[1:21:22] He wears cans for shoes.

[1:21:25] Andy, last name withheld, writes,

[1:21:28] I'm a new listener and convert from How Did This Just Get Made.

[1:21:31] I'm still working my way...

[1:21:32] No, call it How Did This Just Get Made.

[1:21:35] The podcast where you're like, why did they make this movie years ago?

[1:21:41] Usually technological limitations.

[1:21:44] I'm still working my way through the backlog, and I'm loving this journey of bad movies,

[1:21:48] and it's inspired me to see Castle Freak.

[1:21:50] I have one question for you.

[1:21:52] If you could cast Nicolas Cage as any character in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, who would you pick?

[1:21:57] My choice would be the Sentry.

[1:21:59] I can't wait to hear yours.

[1:22:00] Andy, last name withheld.

[1:22:03] That's a controversial choice, the Sentry.

[1:22:05] That's not a character I love, to be honest.

[1:22:08] What if he was, like, Cyclops' dad?

[1:22:12] Uh, wait.

[1:22:13] It's Cyclops' dad, Corsair, of the Star Trek universe?

[1:22:16] Yeah, Corsair.

[1:22:17] That's a good one.

[1:22:18] I mean, is that technically Marvel Cinematic Universe at this point?

[1:22:21] I guess X-Men, yeah, would not be in the MCU.

[1:22:24] I mean, it will be when Disney buys 20th Century Fox.

[1:22:28] Yeah, that's true.

[1:22:29] But not currently.

[1:22:30] So here's my choice, guys.

[1:22:32] It's the only choice I could...

[1:22:33] It's the only conceivable choice as far as I'm concerned.

[1:22:36] There's a little superhero I've always wanted to write.

[1:22:38] His name is D-Man.

[1:22:40] He's a super strong wrestler who is occasionally homeless,

[1:22:44] and sometimes has issues with other heroes not wanting to work with him.

[1:22:48] I would love to have Nicolas Cage play D-Man,

[1:22:51] who's a character who is, like...

[1:22:52] I feel like there's a lot of depth in him,

[1:22:54] and that doesn't get used.

[1:22:55] And I'd love to have a character in the Marvel universe

[1:22:57] who, like, is also a hero,

[1:23:00] and just doesn't get along with the other ones in the same way.

[1:23:02] I feel like the Avengers, they're all, like,

[1:23:04] we're the cool bros.

[1:23:05] We're all super cool, we all get along,

[1:23:07] even though we kind of give each other shit every now and then.

[1:23:10] But to have a character where they're, like,

[1:23:12] all right, we'll team up with this guy.

[1:23:14] Okay. And he's super enthusiastic about it.

[1:23:16] Like, I can't... I'm so happy I get to fight with you guys.

[1:23:19] And they're like, all right, I guess we need a little bit of extra muscle.

[1:23:21] We'll take D-Man along.

[1:23:22] I would love to have that.

[1:23:24] That's Nicolas Cage as D-Man.

[1:23:25] Do it right now, Marvel.

[1:23:27] I mean, I think the two more obvious choices for me, obviously, are...

[1:23:33] I mean, I think you would make a great Wonder Man.

[1:23:35] You know, a movie star slash super strong guy.

[1:23:39] I mean, that's perfect.

[1:23:40] I mean, he's got the rockerism for it.

[1:23:42] And the body, of course.

[1:23:45] The other one to play into Nicolas Cage's strengths

[1:23:49] for, like, crazy kooky characters.

[1:23:52] So I think he could do a really good Moon Knight.

[1:23:55] All right. Yeah, I could see that.

[1:23:56] Moon Knight's a good choice.

[1:23:58] I mean, he's...

[1:24:00] I think he's about the right age for that character.

[1:24:02] Uh, you mean in his 50s?

[1:24:05] I don't know about that.

[1:24:06] I mean, but he can play, like, late 20s, right?

[1:24:09] Uh, probably not.

[1:24:12] I mean, if there's a lot of grease on that lens, maybe.

[1:24:15] Hey, guys, you know what would be a pretty cool match for Nicolas Cage?

[1:24:17] In fact, I think if they made movies with him as this character,

[1:24:20] they'd be amazing movies.

[1:24:21] Ghost Rider.

[1:24:23] They both got that cool, like, leather jacket feel.

[1:24:25] Why don't they do, like, a Ghost Rider movie with Nicolas Cage?

[1:24:28] Uh, I mean, and Ghost Rider's such a relatable character

[1:24:32] that I can really see, like,

[1:24:33] because both Nicolas Cage and Ghost Rider have a skull for a head.

[1:24:37] Yeah, that's true.

[1:24:39] Yeah, I mean, Nicolas Cage has flesh and hair on it.

[1:24:42] And Ghost Rider's has fire on it.

[1:24:43] The flesh and hair of nature.

[1:24:46] But, you know, flesh and hair, you know, share 99% of their DNA with fire.

[1:24:50] That's a, that's a, by the way, that's a shout out to a friend of mine

[1:24:53] pointing out this, uh, this old interview that Nicolas Cage did

[1:24:57] when talking about Ghost Rider.

[1:24:59] And somebody asked him, why, what makes Ghost Rider relatable?

[1:25:03] Why, why did you want to play this character?

[1:25:06] His reason is because he could see that he's got a skull

[1:25:10] and thus he has bones and a skeleton like everyone else.

[1:25:16] Oh, wow.

[1:25:17] Uh, OK, this next letter is from, uh, Mads, last name withheld.

[1:25:23] What? Who writes?

[1:25:25] Yeah, who knows? Nicholson?

[1:25:27] Who knows?

[1:25:28] I mean, I mean, that's a, that's a pretty good guess.

[1:25:30] There's no one else with that name, so.

[1:25:33] I mean, it could easily be Mads Magazines.

[1:25:36] Yeah.

[1:25:37] This says, dearest, most charming peaches.

[1:25:39] First, I'd like to say that, start this letter by saying that

[1:25:41] your donors only Max Fund Drive 2017 episode was my first.

[1:25:46] And despite being called an idiot by Elliot,

[1:25:48] and the explicit message of, and I quote,

[1:25:50] go fuck yourself, we don't need you from Stuart.

[1:25:53] I'm still here, an eager podcast gremlin,

[1:25:55] laughing along to your good, good goofs,

[1:25:57] which have really helped to take the edge

[1:25:58] off my sleep-filled finals week.

[1:26:01] He goes on to say, despite not having seen

[1:26:03] most of the movies you've cover, you cover,

[1:26:06] I keep thinking back to possibly the most

[1:26:08] buck wild movie I've ever watched.

[1:26:10] An Easter, a word I use as loosely as possible,

[1:26:14] animated flick called The Easter Egg Adventure.

[1:26:17] A movie that proved, a movie that proved

[1:26:20] much more hard hitting than anyone in my family expected.

[1:26:24] My favorite dreamlike memory of this movie begins,

[1:26:26] brings me to my questions.

[1:26:28] Firstly, which of your favorite movies

[1:26:30] would you want to see a gritty animated reboot of?

[1:26:32] Any specific animation style, or studio,

[1:26:34] or actors, directors you'd like to see bring it to life?

[1:26:37] If an answer to this escapes you,

[1:26:38] what about the other way around?

[1:26:40] Which animated movie would you want to see

[1:26:41] a dramatic live action retelling of?

[1:26:44] And yes Dan, feel free to cast Jackie Chan in it,

[1:26:46] even if you forget he's there.

[1:26:48] Yours in peachiness and floppiness, Mads.

[1:26:52] So either a gritty animated reboot,

[1:26:54] or a gritty reboot of animation.

[1:26:57] Oh wow.

[1:26:58] How would you like to see that realized?

[1:27:00] Oh man, that Rubik's Cube show would make

[1:27:03] a really awesome gritty, hard hitting teen thriller.

[1:27:07] Oh yeah, Rubik the Amazing Cube?

[1:27:09] Yeah, but they could do it,

[1:27:11] I feel like you would want to do it found footage style.

[1:27:15] I mean that's basically,

[1:27:16] they did that movie with that space robot,

[1:27:18] that was basically a found footage version of E.T.,

[1:27:20] but with a space robot.

[1:27:22] Like Echo to Alpha or something like that,

[1:27:25] or Echo 10.

[1:27:26] Okay, then I'll think of something else.

[1:27:28] Earth to Echo, is that what it's called?

[1:27:29] Yeah, we watched it for the fucking show.

[1:27:32] Wait, did we watch it?

[1:27:33] Yeah.

[1:27:35] Wait, really?

[1:27:36] I think so.

[1:27:36] I don't think we did.

[1:27:37] Oh no.

[1:27:39] Let's uh...

[1:27:40] If we did, I have no memories of it.

[1:27:43] I think there was a...

[1:27:45] If I have no memories of that,

[1:27:46] what else am I forgetting, Elliot?

[1:27:48] And who put those memory blocks there?

[1:27:52] The most memorable thing in the world, Earth to Echo.

[1:27:55] If I can forget that, what else could I forget?

[1:27:59] What does my child's face look like?

[1:28:01] Do I have a child?

[1:28:06] Dan, what do you think?

[1:28:08] So, a boy named Charlie Brown is already a stark depiction

[1:28:14] of depression in children.

[1:28:17] So I think that it'd be fun to see a gritty reboot of it

[1:28:21] directed by Lynne Ramsey.

[1:28:23] Okay.

[1:28:24] Yeah, she's so hot right now.

[1:28:25] Wandering around the streets,

[1:28:27] just being kind of alienated.

[1:28:29] Mm-hmm.

[1:28:30] Oh no.

[1:28:31] Yeah.

[1:28:32] And there's not much plot.

[1:28:33] I mean, it's a more Vern Collar kind of Lynne Ramsey.

[1:28:35] Yeah, yeah, sure.

[1:28:36] Real Ratcatcher type thing, sure.

[1:28:38] Yeah.

[1:28:39] Hey guys, I'm gonna flip the script on this a little bit.

[1:28:42] And I'm going to say that I was trying to think of

[1:28:46] something I'd like to see, even as a joke,

[1:28:48] like rebooted or whatever, redone.

[1:28:51] And I realized that there was nothing I can think of

[1:28:53] that I feel like I haven't already seen redone in some way.

[1:28:57] And what I really want to see is like an original thing

[1:29:02] or like an adaptation of something

[1:29:04] that I am not aware of already yet,

[1:29:05] like not familiar with.

[1:29:06] Like, I think I've hit like adaptation fatigue

[1:29:10] and I don't want to see filmmakers making things

[1:29:12] that they think I'm going to like

[1:29:14] based on stuff I like already.

[1:29:16] I want to see them make like new stuff

[1:29:18] and hopefully I'll like it.

[1:29:19] Like, I was trying to think,

[1:29:21] like I was thinking about like Dino Riders for a while,

[1:29:23] which was a super stupid toy line,

[1:29:26] where I was tricked by Toys R Us

[1:29:29] into buying what essentially was a 22-minute ad

[1:29:31] for Dino Riders as a videotape,

[1:29:33] like that it was going to be a Dino Riders movie.

[1:29:35] And I was like, oh,

[1:29:36] but that's kind of like Jurassic World already.

[1:29:38] Like, they just add lasers to it.

[1:29:40] Like, there's nothing I can think of

[1:29:42] that I like haven't seen that's going to blow my mind.

[1:29:45] And I started thinking about like

[1:29:46] the first time I saw Star Wars

[1:29:48] or the Dark Crystal or any of that stuff,

[1:29:50] where it was like a wholly new world, you know?

[1:29:53] And so that's what I want to see.

[1:29:54] But really for the purpose of answering this question,

[1:29:57] I'll say She-Ra, I guess.

[1:29:58] Okay.

[1:30:00] It's like Hordak and the Horde were pretty cool villain monsters like and at the end you know the post-end credit sequence would have Skeletor in it and they tease that Skeletor would be in the next movie and then it would spin off into like the He-Man MCU or something like that.

[1:30:14] Yeah we're just watching an episode of the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon and I'm kind of surprised they haven't tried to like re-launch that cartoon.

[1:30:23] That's surprising to me too.

[1:30:25] Just because it feels like the idea of like taking a bunch of Stranger Things style kids and then giving them magic powers and then they beat up on on Avenger.

[1:30:37] Yeah I mean it's Stranger Things meets Game of Thrones that's your pitch.

[1:30:40] Yeah well it's like Jumanji like you're getting sucked into the game.

[1:30:44] You're right it's a lot like Jumanji.

[1:30:47] You're right so they can't do it.

[1:30:48] Although...

[1:30:50] That huge hit Jumanji.

[1:30:52] I mean it is a huge hit.

[1:30:53] That's what I'm saying that's why they would totally do something exactly like it.

[1:30:55] Hollywood doesn't like to repeat itself.

[1:30:57] That's why they didn't put Robin Williams in it they put Dwayne The Rock Johnson.

[1:31:03] Oh Stewart I have some bad news to tell you.

[1:31:08] Did you know originally Robin Williams was going to be in Rampage and The Rock was going to be in Jumanji and they were like because they switched roles.

[1:31:18] Robin Williams was going to be in Jumanji and Dwayne The Rock Johnson was going to be in Rampage and they switched roles.

[1:31:22] Dwayne The Rock Johnson was going to do Jumanji and Robin Williams was going to do Rampage and then Robin Williams disappeared and they couldn't find him.

[1:31:27] So The Rock was like I'll do that one too.

[1:31:30] Okay okay well that's sad.

[1:31:33] I realized how sad that bit was going to get so I like I just like aborted it and it didn't work out.

[1:31:39] So this last letter is from Tim last name withheld who says he writes please don't read my email on the show sorry and thanks can't do it Tim can't do it.

[1:31:51] Wow Dan doesn't care whose toes he steps on.

[1:31:54] That's right.

[1:31:55] Oh wow jerk.

[1:31:56] What a betrayer.

[1:31:59] Yeah well I marched to my own drum so I can't be told.

[1:32:04] Yeah he's kind of like a he's an individual he's him and he's great you know.

[1:32:09] And he's got to be you a lady with a beard.

[1:32:14] Bringing it all around so the last thing that we do is we recommend movies that we liked that you might want to watch instead of The Greatest Showman.

[1:32:27] I guess I've been going first recently so I'll continue.

[1:32:30] Always I think always.

[1:32:32] Yeah we split to do a comfortable rut.

[1:32:35] But what it seems like to me is it's like when somebody has like hey I bought a candy bar anyone want a bite I guess I'll have one and then they just unwrap it and eat it themselves that's what it feels like to me.

[1:32:48] Well you can jump in I'm not going to stop you from having some of that sweet candy.

[1:32:52] Okay I'll jump in and I'll recommend first what do you guys think about that.

[1:32:55] Sure okay do I have enough time to go to the bathroom.

[1:32:59] No probably not anyway or maybe I don't know how long what do you have to do in there.

[1:33:03] Uh we'll find out okay well.

[1:33:07] So I guess my recommendation is going to be a little longer than I intended.

[1:33:11] We're spinning the old potty roulette reel I guess see how long it's going to be in there.

[1:33:17] It's a toilet seat and they spin it like a roulette wheel.

[1:33:21] Yeah.

[1:33:22] And the ball always falls into the hole in the middle so always better it's always been on the hole.

[1:33:27] Yeah.

[1:33:28] When you're playing potty roulette.

[1:33:29] It's also called potty roulette because it's at a kid's casino.

[1:33:34] Yeah.

[1:33:35] It's a casino for toddlers in uh in Little Vegas.

[1:33:40] Or no Tots Vegas it's called it's called Tots Vegas.

[1:33:44] We got to talk long enough that Stuart leaves the bathroom and we still haven't gotten to

[1:33:48] recommendations yet.

[1:33:49] That's right I guess that uh the kids uh Vegas they bet like graham crackers or something like

[1:33:57] goldfish crackers.

[1:33:58] Yeah yeah goldfish crackers graham crackers uh those little peanut butter sandwich crackers.

[1:34:03] Oh yeah.

[1:34:04] That the kids can't seem to get enough of.

[1:34:06] Yeah the the snack that I sometimes got from the gas station when I was looking for snacks

[1:34:13] because it felt somehow a little healthier than other crappy snacks but instead had a

[1:34:18] huge number of calories.

[1:34:20] Yeah that's it that's it that's a good way to think of it that's like you're like the

[1:34:24] person who's like hold on I gotta watch out for my health I'll get a diet soda.

[1:34:28] Yeah.

[1:34:29] Like well you could just not drink soda anyways.

[1:34:31] Are you talking about nature valley granola bars?

[1:34:34] Uh well no but those also fit into that it feels like it should be healthy category.

[1:34:38] Yeah yeah but they have a lot of calories.

[1:34:41] Yeah but you know calories that's just energy baby.

[1:34:48] Another science fact for Mr Wizard himself Stuart Wellington.

[1:34:52] Okay guys so I'm going to recommend a movie.

[1:34:54] This is a comedy I saw recently that I didn't love everything about it but I found a lot

[1:34:58] of it genuinely funny which has not been the case for a lot of recent comedies for me.

[1:35:02] It's a movie called The Little Hours starring uh basically the same cast of comedy people

[1:35:08] you see all over the place and everywhere there's Aubrey Plaza's in it Molly Shannon's

[1:35:11] in it Fred Armisen's in it all these people uh and it's about it's a comedy set in 14th

[1:35:18] century uh Italy in a convent and it's kind of like if heathers was set at a medieval

[1:35:24] convent in a way where it's a I think the the plot line was not improvised but the script

[1:35:30] is all improvised and it is just characters in a historical setting talking like modern

[1:35:36] people talk and I thought a lot of it was really funny the plot goes in a direction

[1:35:40] where I was like all right this is kind of not what I'm looking for from this movie but

[1:35:45] I enjoyed it more than not and John C Reilly's in it too and he's really funny everyone's

[1:35:49] real funny in it it's based on a story from the Decameron right supposedly I've never

[1:35:53] read the Decameron so I don't really know how close I mean The Greatest Showman is supposedly

[1:35:58] based on P.T. Barnum's life yeah doesn't really apply that much but okay but if you want to if

[1:36:04] you want to watch a funny movie I liked that movie The Little Hours um I want to go because

[1:36:09] I'm going to give a qualified recommendation unless you also have a qualified recommendation

[1:36:13] no no it's cool you can go uh wait hold on what were you going to recommend

[1:36:19] no Dan then he should just give his recommendation so I'm going to go along I'm going to piggyback

[1:36:24] off of Elliot's style recommendation I'm going to recommend a little comedy that I liked that

[1:36:29] I saw recently that also stars Aubrey Plaza I'm going to recommend Ingrid Goes West I want to see

[1:36:36] uh which is about a uh a woman who is obsessed with social media and is has great difficulty

[1:36:44] interacting with the world outside of that um until she kind of does uh it's yeah it's just

[1:36:51] uh it's this fun sad little movie uh about obsession and uh trying to relate to other

[1:36:57] people and it features some some fun performances it's not like you know it's not like a super funny

[1:37:04] movie but it's kind of funny and uh it has a really great performance from O'Shea Jackson Jr.

[1:37:10] as uh Aubrey Plaza's characters uh Batman obsessed uh landlord turned uh boyfriend I guess

[1:37:20] and Dan are you going to finish this Aubrey Plaza trifecta no I'm not and uh the reason why I asked

[1:37:26] Stuart uh what he was going to recommend because I was like I briefly thought we were going to

[1:37:29] recommend the same thing because I realized that there's something I didn't have to give a

[1:37:34] qualified recommendation to I I liked enough to give a full recommendation to which was uh The

[1:37:40] Endless which uh is a little yeah I still haven't gotten to see it yet okay there's like it's like

[1:37:47] kind of an indie horror movie cosmic horror a little sci-fi a little bit of like a brother's

[1:37:55] relationship drama and a little bit of a comedy it's from the from the filmmaker who made uh

[1:38:00] Spring and Resolution which are both movies I recommended on the show so it's a it's a good

[1:38:07] movie if you you know like I gave The Quiet Place a little shit on our Facebook group because I

[1:38:13] I liked it I think it's a very well-made movie but I was like oh this is kind of like a basic

[1:38:17] horror movie that I've seen before and I feel like The Endless if you're looking for like a

[1:38:21] little bit of a different kind of horror movie it's for you uh even though it's not just trying

[1:38:28] to be scary I mean hasn't hasn't A Quiet Place made enough money that it's a thriller now and

[1:38:33] not a horror movie yeah I think those are the rules yeah I think so but just quickly the basic

[1:38:38] premise of uh The Endless is two brothers the older one pulled the younger one out of a cult

[1:38:44] when they were like teens and uh the younger one doesn't like life on the outside and convinces

[1:38:50] the brother to go back and visit and then a bunch of weird stuff starts happening so that's the

[1:38:57] that's you don't want to know anything more than that going again don't tell me anything more than

[1:39:02] that yeah so I'm not asking you to okay but it's it's not an endless movie right it's only like an

[1:39:10] hour and a half no it is one of those movies that tempts fate uh when it comes to critics making up

[1:39:17] snarky headlines uh-huh that and also Infinity War seems man that's my fucking favorite is like

[1:39:24] even fucking Colbert which I don't know like are they hire the oldest guys in the world to write

[1:39:29] their bits because it's like you can see this fucking writer's room is some old fucker saying

[1:39:35] like Infinity War more like infini infinite cast of characters he turns into Audrey to our well

[1:39:46] just Audrey from he turns into Audrey to Audrey too and then he gulps Stuart down while he's

[1:39:51] trying to buy a plant and I deserve it for making fun of his jokes just Audrey that was a very

[1:39:59] complicated

[1:40:00] it just got just got spun to life and this is coming from someone who often

[1:40:05] starts sentences not knowing how they're gonna end yeah so Stuart did you

[1:40:11] recommend something or not yeah I fucking yes oh okay wait did you think

[1:40:18] for a second that like time stopped and my recommendation happened all inside

[1:40:22] your brain yeah I'm genuinely starting to worry about you after this episode

[1:40:29] I'm sorry like well we didn't talk about my favorite musical number yeah we did

[1:40:33] Stewart talked about it and I talked about it yeah well we never introduced

[1:40:37] ourselves yeah we did at the beginning of the show did I say we never

[1:40:41] introduced did you hit record on this podcast I fucking hope okay or I kind of

[1:40:46] hope not I don't know maybe we'll do it all over again okay I'm that welcome to

[1:40:51] the flop house I'm Ellie Kaelin that's Stuart this is Dan memory man McCoy

[1:40:57] nobody people don't realize Dan got my mentos since the last episode I'm yeah

[1:41:02] I'm the character at the end of the 39 steps I actually uh mr. memory mr.

[1:41:07] memory yeah even that you couldn't remember great job great job mr. memory

[1:41:13] I like the idea that you have very specific tattoos for each episode on you

[1:41:17] you like look at your arm and it says we talked about the love duet scene with

[1:41:20] the with the trapeze artist you're like okay never mind my tattoo says we

[1:41:23] watched it already we talked about already yeah I'm getting tattooed like

[1:41:28] during the podcast just like yeah I've been meaning to talk to you about that

[1:41:31] the sound of the tattoo needle has been very distracting to the listeners mm-hmm

[1:41:35] yeah all right it's just it's just really cool you know how do you like

[1:41:39] being a human canvas it's all in Ray Bradbury's short story collection the

[1:41:46] illustrated damn where every tattoo on Dan tell the story that song Groucho

[1:41:52] saying Dan the tattooed lady yep so let's close up the old mailbag close up

[1:42:01] the old recommendations bag time for the circus to close down it's leaving town

[1:42:05] and going somewhere else yeah close up the old flop bag

[1:42:10] hold on Dan aren't all bags floppy once a bag is not floppy anymore it becomes a

[1:42:21] briefcase yeah or a box yeah yeah thank you Stewart isn't isn't a box just a bag

[1:42:28] that's not floppy Dan your take all right well I guess take me away to jail

[1:42:34] you caught me let's drag him to hell everybody okay well again for the flop

[1:42:41] ass I've been Dan McCoy yeah I'm Stewart Wellington and I thought I was always

[1:42:45] gonna be Ellie Cailin but now I'm not so sure all right goodbye everyone bye-bye

[1:42:57] no no did you see my post on the Facebook group about the guy who's

[1:43:03] sitting next to me in Avengers Infinity War oh yeah yeah he was super pumped up

[1:43:08] by it yeah and then he was like oh man they really jacked us up didn't they to

[1:43:12] me afterwards like you like nudges me and I'm like yeah man they really did

[1:43:16] and then it seems like the close pet singer was done and I stood up he's like

[1:43:20] shook hands whoa you guys are brothers in battle you

[1:43:24] Infinity War together yeah I find that hilarious maximum fun org comedy and

[1:43:31] culture artist owned listener supported

Ep. #257 - The Greatest Showman

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