Ep.#455 - Poolman, with Josh Gondelman

Stuart Wellington

[0:00] On this episode, we discuss Pool Man.

[0:03] You know, not my favorite Spider-Man villain,

[0:05] but I'm interested to see what Sony does with the character.

Dan McCoy

[0:30] Hey, everyone, and welcome to the Flophouse.

[0:32] I'm Dan McCoy.

[0:34] I'm Stuart Wellington.

Elliott Kalan

[0:35] I'm Elliot Kalin.

[0:36] Stuart, pick up your cues faster, please.

[0:39] He's so confused.

[0:41] Stuart, he's just nervous because we've got a great guest today,

[0:44] and it's his job to introduce him.

[0:46] And I understand this is a guest who deserves a big introduction,

[0:48] maybe the biggest.

Stuart Wellington

[0:49] And notoriously irksome if not introduced properly.

[0:54] Yes.

[0:54] Correct.

[0:55] So our guest today is friend of the podcast, comedian.

[1:00] Writer, Josh Gondelman.

[1:03] Take it again.

[1:05] You have irked me.

[1:06] Ten foot tall, eight foot wiener.

[1:09] Did you say infinite wiener?

[1:13] It's just a lazy infinite wiener.

[1:16] I'm always reading infinite wiener on the subway just to get attention.

[1:20] Oh, man.

[1:21] What a pain that would be.

Dan McCoy

[1:22] It's like, keep walking, keep walking.

Elliott Kalan

[1:25] You got to hit the end of it sometime.

[1:26] I'm imagining it's like a measuring tape.

[1:29] You can just pull out as much as you need.

[1:30] Oh, I see.

[1:31] And it tracks back in.

[1:32] Yeah, yeah.

[1:32] Okay.

S4

[1:33] Oh, cool.

[1:34] Thank you for having me.

Elliott Kalan

[1:35] It's very nice to be here.

[1:38] I'm sorry.

[1:38] Infinite wiener is the Marvel character Anthony Wiener pitched himself as for the MCU.

S4

[1:44] Oh, go away.

[1:46] Go away.

[1:47] Yeah, it feels like there's been infinite wiener in the news.

[1:49] It's been like a decade of him going like, I'm back,

[1:53] and then immediately doing something so embarrassing and often illegal.

[1:56] Yeah.

[1:57] Yeah.

[1:59] He's not going away.

Stuart Wellington

[2:00] Now, Josh, I'm sure we'll give you a full chance to promote it later,

[2:03] but you just had a new stand-up special drop.

[2:06] Tell us about it.

S4

[2:07] Thank you.

[2:07] It is called Positive Reinforcement.

[2:09] It is an hour of jokes.

[2:11] It sounds like this, but there's punchlines and people laugh.

[2:15] It is on the YouTube.

[2:17] I know.

[2:17] Hold on.

[2:18] Wait a minute.

[2:18] Hold on.

[2:19] Hold on.

[2:19] No, I promise.

[2:20] People laugh there.

[2:22] You might not laugh at home, but the people in the room laugh.

[2:24] It's verifiable.

[2:26] Yeah.

[2:26] Lots of cutaways.

[2:27] Lots of cutaways to the audience to prove that it's funny.

Stuart Wellington

[2:31] I thought you were saying lots of cutaways like Dan's favorite show, Family Guy.

[2:34] Yeah.

[2:35] Yeah, that's right.

S4

[2:36] I do a setup, and then it cuts to me fighting a chicken for three minutes.

[2:41] Oh, wow.

[2:43] I shot it at the Bell House last summer.

[2:46] My friend Chris Warner, who I worked with last week tonight, directed it.

[2:49] It is on the YouTube channel of the record label that I work with, Blonde Medicine.

[2:54] They're really wonderful.

[2:55] It is available for anyone to watch anytime, and I really hope people do.

[2:59] It's not quite clean.

[3:01] Sometimes people think I'm clean and book me for synagogues and tell me Dan.

[3:05] I'm like, okay, you can't curse.

[3:07] And I'm like, well, I was just gonna if you didn't tell me.

[3:09] But there's no cursing in the special, but it does get a little adult.

[3:12] So you can watch it with your cool teens or teens.

[3:15] You can watch it with your cool parents.

[3:17] Okay.

[3:18] But no duds.

[3:19] No losers.

Stuart Wellington

[3:20] No losers.

[3:21] Yeah.

[3:21] This is sort of special that kids are gonna run home and listen to on super low volume so

[3:26] their parents don't hear them listening to.

[3:28] I did with old Eddie Murphy stand-up.

[3:30] I did it with Adam Sandler's sketch comedy albums.

Elliott Kalan

[3:33] Adam Sandler albums were the ones where me and my friends would listen to them on real

[3:36] low volume because we didn't want our parents hearing the-

Dan McCoy

[3:40] Because you didn't want your ears to hurt from the irritating voices.

Stuart Wellington

[3:45] Dan's embarrassed, but he did that with the jerky boys.

[3:48] Yeah.

[3:49] We couldn't even get our hands on those.

[3:51] Those were too hot.

[3:52] Oh, yeah.

[3:53] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[3:53] I mean, I thought there were two guys made of jerky, and I just really liked dried meats,

[3:58] and I was very disappointed.

Elliott Kalan

[4:00] Josh, what's the name of the special again?

S4

[4:01] It's called Positive Reinforcement.

[4:03] Positive Reinforcement.

Elliott Kalan

[4:03] And now I'm-

[4:05] So, Josh, you're a famously positive person.

[4:08] You're famously positive kind of like, let's find the nice thing to say person.

[4:12] So I'm very excited to hear you talk about the movie Pool Man today.

Stuart Wellington

[4:16] Mm, mm, Pool Man, Pool Man.

[4:19] You mean the hot Lebowski?

[4:23] That's good.

[4:23] Man, you were saving that.

[4:25] You had that too.

[4:26] Dan, what's Pool Man all about here?

Dan McCoy

[4:29] Wait, I'm not the guy in charge of this, thank God.

[4:32] This is not a plot heavy-

Stuart Wellington

[4:33] So this is written and directed and starring Chris Pine.

[4:36] I would argue the best of the Hollywood Chrises.

[4:40] And he is-

Elliott Kalan

[4:41] I think I would say Chris White's friend of the podcast.

[4:44] Oh, okay, that's fine.

Stuart Wellington

[4:46] You're right.

[4:47] You're actually right.

Dan McCoy

[4:49] He's usually mentioned in the same sort of grouping as the people who are-

[4:52] Yeah, I'll see a grid on Instagram.

Stuart Wellington

[4:55] Yeah, it's Hemsworth, White's.

[4:57] Hemsworth.

Elliott Kalan

[4:58] He works in Hollywood.

[4:59] His name is Chris.

[5:00] And he's great.

[5:01] He's the best one.

[5:03] Yeah.

[5:03] He is the best.

[5:04] So let's talk about-

[5:05] But yes, as you said, it's what written, directed, and starring Chris Pine.

[5:09] And it really wears its influences on its sleeve.

[5:13] It wants to be the big Lebowski really badly.

[5:16] It wants to be kind of like a more sensitive Chinatown really badly, which it signifies by having the characters watch Chinatown in the movie.

Stuart Wellington

[5:27] That's always a tough one.

[5:28] It's tough when a movie has you watch arguably a better movie in the movie you're watching.

Elliott Kalan

[5:34] Setting aside the landmine of the man who made the movie.

[5:37] I think it's-

[5:38] Oh, what happened?

S4

[5:39] You're going to love this too.

[5:41] His nose got terribly mangled by a switchblade.

Elliott Kalan

[5:45] I think you can arguably make a case that, yes, that Chinatown is a better movie than Pool Man.

Stuart Wellington

[5:51] It's like, what was it?

[5:52] The scene in Reign of Fire where in the post-apocalyptic future they entertain children by reenacting the story of Star Wars.

[5:59] And I'm like, movie, don't be doing this.

[6:01] Don't make me think about Star Wars while I'm watching Reign of Fire.

Elliott Kalan

[6:03] I had the same experience watching Return of the Jedi where C-3PO entertains the Ewoks by reenacting Star Wars.

[6:10] And I'm like, Return of the Jedi, Star Wars is a better movie.

[6:12] What are you doing?

S4

[6:14] There's a third LA-based movie that is explicitly referenced in this where you're like, I would like to be watching that movie.

[6:21] Where he goes, you've never seen Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

[6:24] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[6:24] And this movie, it's all that stuff.

[6:27] It's very The Long Goodbye.

[6:28] It wants to be The Long Goodbye.

Dan McCoy

[6:30] I'm going to toss a couple other ones in there that I actually, I find more appropriate even is like Under the Silver Lake and Inherent Vice where it's movies where the main character is so addled that you can't tell whether there actually is a giant conspiracy he's part of or whether it's just his paranoid fantasies.

Stuart Wellington

[6:49] Yeah.

[6:49] Yeah, they're kind of like LA neo-noir with a dopey main character basically.

Elliott Kalan

[6:56] I would call it Los Angeles hangout burnout noir.

[6:59] Like there's a lot of hanging out.

[7:00] The main characters are burnout.

[7:01] Big Lebowski, I would say, is the greatest of those.

[7:05] You know, that's arguably.

[7:06] But let's talk about, we're not here to talk about that.

[7:08] We're here to talk about Pool Man.

Stuart Wellington

[7:10] I think there's contention there, but that's okay.

Elliott Kalan

[7:12] See the crisp on in the pool.

S4

[7:15] Wearing shorts and looking cool.

[7:17] That I've been sitting on.

[7:18] I've been singing that around the apartment so much.

[7:21] That Pool Man.

[7:24] My wife, Maris, has not been enjoying it.

[7:28] Oh, interesting.

[7:28] How's the dog responded?

[7:30] She's down.

Elliott Kalan

[7:32] As long as I sing it in her direction and like kind of upbeat.

[7:36] Yeah.

[7:37] So let's talk about what Pool Man, we talked about what Pool Man is like.

[7:40] Let's talk about what Pool Man is.

[7:42] Pool Man stars Chris Pine as Darren or DB, he's also called.

[7:46] He lives in a trailer next to a motel pool.

[7:48] He's a pool guy.

[7:49] He takes his work very seriously.

[7:51] He only seems to take care of one pool.

[7:53] Just the one at this apartment motel complex.

[7:56] He doesn't seem to like.

Stuart Wellington

[7:56] Just enough to earn the title.

Elliott Kalan

[7:58] Yes.

[7:59] Like he doesn't travel around to take care of other pools as most pool people do.

Stuart Wellington

[8:02] It's not called Pools Man.

Elliott Kalan

[8:05] That's a good point.

[8:06] That's a good point.

Stuart Wellington

[8:06] That would be a very confusing title.

[8:07] People get you.

Elliott Kalan

[8:08] He takes it very seriously and he's like Josh said.

[8:13] He's the hot Lebowski.

[8:14] He has his shirt off a lot and he's kind of a burnout and he kind of doesn't know what's going on.

[8:18] He writes very ultra positive letters to Aaron Brockovich.

[8:20] Every day he writes a letter to Aaron Brockovich.

[8:23] And he has a girlfriend.

[8:24] As we all do.

[8:26] And I think that the tone of the movie might be best summed up by the scene.

[8:31] But the first scene between him and his girlfriend whose name is what?

[8:34] Susan, I think.

[8:35] Where they finish.

[8:37] Played by?

[8:37] Played by.

[8:38] Is it Jennifer Jason Leigh?

[8:39] Yep.

[8:39] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[8:40] It's almost like there's a ton of stars in this movie.

Elliott Kalan

[8:43] It is a very star packed movie.

[8:44] Yeah, that's true.

[8:45] Yeah.

[8:45] And the material does not give them a huge amount to do.

Dan McCoy

[8:50] Well, I would say that it's like the movie is less a plot where one scene leads tightly to the next.

[8:58] But like a series of acting exercises performed by great actors.

[9:03] Like, you know, just sort of circuitous conversations.

[9:07] Yeah.

S4

[9:08] It's like a star vehicle.

[9:09] But the vehicle is one of those like fake horses out in front of a grocery store that it can get a ride.

[9:14] Yeah.

[9:15] Yeah.

[9:15] It doesn't go.

Elliott Kalan

[9:17] It doesn't go very much.

[9:18] So they lie in bed together.

[9:20] They have a conversation about how their local chicken restaurant has not been as good lately since the owner died.

[9:25] And he finds out that his girlfriend used to date the owner.

[9:28] And he talks a lot about Descanso Gardens, which is a real botanical garden in New York.

[9:35] Sorry, in Los Angeles.

[9:36] Do they make a lot of LA location references in this?

[9:39] A lot of LA location references throughout the movie.

[9:41] But Descanso Gardens, for some reason, especially gets like, and I'm like, does Chris Pine just like to hang out at Descanso Gardens?

[9:46] I don't know.

[9:47] It's a great botanical garden, but I'm not sure why they mention it so much.

[9:51] But you don't really – the characters are kind of having this rambling conversation at cross purposes with each other.

[9:58] And there's a lot of that in this movie.

[10:00] There's a lot of rambling conversations where characters are not really speaking directly to each other.

[10:05] She leaves.

[10:06] He gets a package.

[10:07] It's a real estate calendar from Theodore Hollandaise, who is one of the, I guess, sinister power brokers pulling the strings in Los Angeles.

[10:18] They're named like Teddy Hollandaise.

[10:20] Then we're introduced to some of the Pool Man's crew.

[10:22] There's Jack and Diane.

[10:24] Like every time they said – he said Jack and Diane, it made me so mad because it's like not a joke.

[10:29] It's like a fake joke.

[10:30] And Jack is Danny DeVito.

[10:32] Diane is Annette Bening.

[10:33] It's great to see them in movies.

[10:34] I love seeing them perform.

[10:36] They live at that kind of hotel apartment complex.

[10:40] Danny DeVito tells a long story about a Japanese restaurant complaining about it, and that's kind of the scene.

[10:47] And Diane is Pool Man's therapist.

[10:52] And Jack, Diane, and Pool Man, they're making a documentary with Pool Man's friend Wayne about Pool Man's attempts to get the city council to bring back the trolley cars that used to be in Los Angeles and are a big plot point in Who Framed Roger Rabbit, as you'll remember.

Dan McCoy

[11:08] And, yeah.

[11:10] I just want to say in passing that my favorite characters, I think, in this – I mean, other than we'll see Steven Touloski later.

[11:16] He's about to come up, yeah.

[11:17] But I think that Jack and Diane are my favorite characters because there's just something about – I mean, like, DeVito's doing his, like, normal just sort of, like, I don't know, like, fumfering around with high energy thing.

[11:31] But there's something about, I think, Annette Bening specifically, her positive, like, vibe.

[11:37] Like, she's just, like, kind of coming along on all this bullshit very, like, indulgently.

[11:42] And she's just, like, happy to relax next to them while they're doing –

Stuart Wellington

[11:45] Yeah, always, like, wearing a sun hat and giant glasses.

Dan McCoy

[11:48] Stuff.

[11:48] And I found them, like, more fun than – like, the problem with Chris Pine's character to me is he's, like, too dumb.

[11:55] Like, in something like The Big Lebowski, like, Lebowski ends up being kind of a good detective, which is kind of the funny thing about that movie.

[12:01] Even though he's stoned all the time, he puts things together, whereas Chris Pine is, like, really out to lunch.

Elliott Kalan

[12:08] He's really dumb and he's, like – but he's not – we don't ever see him, like, smoking pot or anything like that.

[12:14] You know?

[12:15] No.

[12:15] Whereas The Big Lebowski –

[12:16] And he doesn't drink alcohol, right?

[12:18] And he doesn't drink –

[12:18] It seems like kind of a plot point.

[12:20] So instead of – like, Lebowski is clear he is – he's a burnout because he is constantly – he's always high.

[12:26] Like, he's always smoking pot, which is a character trait.

[12:29] And drinking white Russians.

[12:30] And drinking white Russians, that's true.

[12:31] Whereas, yeah, the pool man is – or Darren, I guess.

[12:36] No one ever calls – he calls himself a pool man, but no one's ever like, pool man, you're here?

[12:40] But he's a – he's just a dumb guy.

[12:43] He's just a dumb spacey guy.

[12:45] You know?

[12:45] And it's – I feel – I was trying to think to myself, what is it that makes Jeff Bridges' performance in The Big Lebowski so amazing?

[12:53] I think it's one of the best comic performances of the past, what, 40 years or something like that in a movie.

[12:58] I think he's – and maybe it's just that he knows that character so well that he's, like, inhabiting it so completely.

[13:04] Whereas, Chris Pine feels like he is playing a part.

[13:07] Like, he feels like he's playing a character.

Stuart Wellington

[13:08] Guys, do you think on the set of Hell or High Water, Chris Pine went up to Jeff Bridges and was like, hey, I'm thinking about doing another Lebowski.

Dan McCoy

[13:15] I also think –

[13:16] Give me some tips.

[13:17] I think there's something frustrating about, like – usually you don't want, like, a passive character.

[13:22] But, like, the pool man, like, keeps sort of stumbling into problems of his own design and misinterpreting things.

[13:28] And that makes him more irritating.

[13:30] Whereas Lebowski is, like, just constantly reluctant.

[13:34] He just wants to be left alone but is, like, dragged into things, which I found much more sympathetic.

S4

[13:39] Yeah.

[13:39] I honestly was thinking about that same tension because watching this movie, I kept thinking to myself, why is he doing all these things?

Elliott Kalan

[13:47] And then at the end of the movie – spoiler alert, we'll get there – he's totally superfluous to everything that's been happening but not in a funny way.

[13:54] Not in a funny like, oh, I was – I thought I was the hero of this movie but it turns out I was just kind of bumbling around the edges of a larger story.

[14:00] Instead, everyone treats him like a hero when he's done nothing and accomplished nothing.

[14:05] And it's a very – it's very weird.

[14:07] But it's – and it might just be that, you know, Chris Pine, he walked the strike line with us.

[14:13] You know, I appreciate that.

[14:14] But I'll go as far as to say he's probably not up to the Coen brothers level in his directorial debut here.

[14:20] It's not – this is not blood simple, you know, compared to the Coen brothers who did Big Lebowski.

Stuart Wellington

[14:24] I would also – as much as I like him, I don't think he's cast well in this because Chris Pine has, like, a depth and a soulfulness in his eyes that do not fit a character that's this bumbling to me.

Elliott Kalan

[14:38] I will say two things.

[14:39] One, I think he – yeah, he comes off as a smart guy playing a dumb guy.

[14:43] And also, he's in great shape.

[14:46] And it's hard for me to believe this character having the motivation to, like, exercise.

[14:51] I believe him meditating and, like, trying to be good to himself that way and eating right.

[14:56] I don't – but it's hard for me to imagine this guy –

Stuart Wellington

[14:58] He is in great shape.

[14:59] What do you think his routine is, Dan?

[15:01] What do you think his work is –

[15:01] Yeah, Dan, what do you think?

[15:02] I'm guessing he does a lot of surfing.

[15:04] Yeah, a lot of surfing.

[15:06] Probably not a lot of bulking, right?

[15:08] Probably not a lot of powerlifting.

[15:09] No, I don't think so.

[15:10] I wonder what he squats.

[15:12] Well, he's probably listening, so Chris Pine, right?

Elliott Kalan

[15:14] So anyway, they are making a documentary about Darren's attempts to get the trolley back.

[15:20] They go to a city council hearing chaired by city council chairman Stephen Toronkowski, who's played by Stephen Tobolowsky.

[15:28] So I could not remember that his name was Toronkowski for most of the movie.

[15:31] And in my notes, I just call him Tobolowsky.

[15:33] And this is Darren's –

[15:34] That's on them.

[15:35] That's on them, yeah.

[15:36] This is not an Elliot problem.

[15:38] No, that's true.

[15:38] It's very funny how none of the other characters have character names that are that close to their real name.

[15:43] But Stephen – it's not like they named the character Stephen Toronkowski and then by coincidence cast Stephen Tobolowsky in the role.

S4

[15:49] Couldn't have possibly been done that way.

[15:51] No.

[15:51] And in fact, if it was a coincidence, they would have changed it.

Elliott Kalan

[15:55] You would think so.

[15:56] This is his 577th consecutive appearance, and he's fixated on returning L.A. back to the way it was.

[16:02] He's one of these guys who's like, old L.A. was amazing.

[16:05] They're tearing down all these old buildings.

[16:06] He's very knowledgeable about old L.A. buildings and kind of what –

Stuart Wellington

[16:09] As an L.A. guy, Elliot, is this a character that like –

[16:13] They actually call me L.A.

Elliott Kalan

[16:14] L.A. it.

[16:14] Now I'm L.A. it, Kalen.

[16:16] Because that's my catchphrase on the radio here.

[16:18] I go, L.A. it.

[16:19] Hey, guys.

[16:20] You don't know what to do with it?

[16:21] L.A. it.

[16:22] Make it more L.A.

[16:23] That's what I do.

[16:23] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[16:23] What does that mean in effect?

[16:25] It means radio station.

[16:27] Yeah.

[16:28] What's the content here?

Elliott Kalan

[16:29] When you L.A. something, basically, you put a side of avocado on it and then you place it next to a thing that is a wildly different architectural style.

[16:38] But it still works because there's so many different types.

Stuart Wellington

[16:41] But you have to like drive 20 minutes to get there.

Elliott Kalan

[16:43] Oh, at least.

[16:44] On a good day.

[16:46] So you're going to ask me about L.A.?

Stuart Wellington

[16:47] I was just going to say like, you know, three of us here are longtime New Yorkers.

[16:52] Yeah.

[16:53] You being an L.A. guy.

[16:54] L.A.

[16:55] Is this like a caricature that is common and for an L.A. audience would play really well?

Elliott Kalan

[17:01] I think there's an L.A.

[17:03] I will give the movie this.

[17:04] I think it has an L.A. feel.

[17:05] I think it does feel like you're in Los Angeles and the characters are kind of L.A. types.

[17:10] But I have to admit, I have not found myself in this situation too often where I'm encountering this kind of like.

Stuart Wellington

[17:16] Outside of Jesse Thorne, our good friend, who is a perfect L.A. guy.

[17:19] Yeah, yeah.

[17:20] Yeah, he would love that.

Elliott Kalan

[17:23] He doesn't identify heavily with the Bay Area or anything.

[17:27] Not at all.

[17:28] But I don't hang around a lot of the like classic L.A. built around a pool housing complexes, you know, that like I don't spend a lot of time around buildings done in the googie architecture style.

[17:39] Not by choice.

[17:40] Just it doesn't happen that often.

[17:41] So I feel like I'm not encountering this level the same way that in New York I would often encounter people who are like, oh, the old New York.

[17:47] Can you imagine like this?

[17:49] This building's been around for, you know, 150 years.

[17:51] Oh, this is great.

[17:52] In L.A., also the things like old L.A. is like 80 years old.

[17:55] You know, it's not that old.

[17:58] So my wife's cousin's husband who grew up in Istanbul, he's always like, America, you look at a building and you're like, this is 200 years old.

[18:08] And you think that's old.

[18:08] We've got thousand-year-old buildings where I'm from.

[18:10] And I feel like L.A. is that accelerated where people are like, we can't tear down this building.

[18:14] It's 60 years old.

[18:15] It's an artifact of an earlier era, you know, that kind of thing.

[18:18] So – but that's a long way of saying I don't know that I've ever met anyone who's like, ah, the old L.A., the old glamour of old Los Angeles.

[18:26] But I'm sure they're out there, you know.

[18:29] So this scene, maybe you guys can explain it to me.

[18:31] City council meeting.

[18:32] He's got this elaborate presentation he's doing and Stephen Tobolowsky instantly gets so mad at him and is like, leave, get out, your time is up.

[18:41] But he hasn't said anything particularly insulting.

Dan McCoy

[18:43] Well, we just had it established that this is like he just broke the record for most consecutive appearances at one of these meetings.

[18:50] He must have been –

Elliott Kalan

[18:52] But if these are the appearances he's having, like, it should be fine.

[18:54] Like I didn't know why the characters were getting mad at each other.

[18:56] I didn't understand it.

Dan McCoy

[18:57] You would get mad if this guy came to your work like 500 days in a row with his nonsense?

Elliott Kalan

[19:03] If my job is to talk to the members of the public when they want to come to meetings.

[19:07] Elliot.

[19:07] Wow.

[19:08] I think you're being disingenuous here.

Dan McCoy

[19:10] You have – I mean perhaps –

[19:13] Elliot has ideals of the elected officials' jobs.

Stuart Wellington

[19:16] I do.

[19:17] That's why it's so painful to live through this period.

S4

[19:19] I never could treat a constituent this way.

[19:20] Never.

[19:20] Elliot and Caitlin for Mayor of Los Angeles.

Elliott Kalan

[19:22] As a current candidate for the –

[19:24] L.A.

[19:25] As a current candidate.

[19:27] For the board of the Writers Guild West, I would never treat a constituent this way.

[19:31] Come talk to me about your issues.

[19:33] Union members, come talk to me 577 days in a row.

[19:36] We'll have a same pleasant conversation.

[19:37] I will not just explode at you the way Stephen Tovelowski does today.

[19:40] You've got issues.

Stuart Wellington

[19:41] He's got tissues.

[19:42] L.A.

[19:44] What?

Elliott Kalan

[19:45] In case people are crying.

[19:46] I'm there for you.

[19:46] They need to boil their nose.

[19:50] Or there's like a little something on their cheek if that's maybe their issue.

[19:53] I'll lick the tissue and just rub it off.

[19:55] Yeah, Stuart, can you be my campaign manager for Mayor of Los Angeles?

[19:58] I got time.

[19:59] Why not?

[20:00] Or my campaign manager for the Writers Guild board.

[20:02] Again, I'm running.

[20:03] So he gets mad and he gets thrown out.

[20:07] DB has the first of several meditating at the bottom of a pool scene.

[20:10] No, he did one early, right?

[20:12] Oh, he did earlier?

[20:12] Oh, I missed it.

S4

[20:12] Because he did an – like right at the beginning he does it after he adjusts the pool.

[20:16] And I took a note that it said like it's the first character sitting at the bottom of a pool scene that isn't about a long dark night of the soul.

[20:23] He just kind of likes it down there.

Elliott Kalan

[20:24] I think it's very funny because it's like – I don't know how deep you're going to get into meditation at the bottom of a pool.

[20:29] You can't do it for too long or you'll die.

Dan McCoy

[20:31] Especially because it's very breathing-centered meditation in my experience.

Elliott Kalan

[20:34] Like meditation is very much about feeling yourself breathe.

[20:36] So it feels like unless he has some shortcut, it's very hard to – you can only meditate for like four minutes at most.

Stuart Wellington

[20:43] I mean there's an element of – what's the – where they –

[20:46] Isolation.

[20:46] Thank you.

[20:47] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[20:47] Sensory deprivation.

[20:49] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[20:49] Sensory deprivation.

[20:50] That's what I was actually looking for.

Elliott Kalan

[20:50] But a sensory deprivation tank, like you're in there for a while.

[20:53] Like you're not in there for like two minutes and then suddenly you're out of your mind.

[20:56] Like a minute?

[20:56] 30 seconds?

Stuart Wellington

[20:57] A minute?

[20:57] 30 seconds, yeah.

[20:58] Have you guys ever done a cold plunge, like an icy cold plunge?

[21:02] No, I haven't.

[21:03] Dan?

[21:03] What?

[21:03] Have you ever done like a –

[21:04] No, that seems like the opposite of the –

S4

[21:07] Josh, what do you think?

[21:07] I haven't done it, but I know it's a big thing that people are doing.

Stuart Wellington

[21:10] Because I've – like I was – like I can do like 45 seconds.

[21:14] But then after that I'm like my extremities hurt.

[21:18] Yeah.

[21:18] Okay.

[21:19] Sorry.

[21:19] I figured you guys were all ice plunge, like cold plunge dudes.

Dan McCoy

[21:22] I don't even – you know, I can't even do that.

[21:24] Like I know that you like to –

[21:26] I prefer to take.

[21:27] I don't know why I know this.

[21:27] You like to finish off a shower with a little cold water, right?

[21:29] Yeah.

[21:30] I feel like I've hurt you.

[21:31] You wrote it down in your stew diary.

[21:32] But I did.

[21:33] I cannot take it.

[21:34] No, thank you.

Elliott Kalan

[21:35] I like to – I like to – I appreciate cold water taken internally.

[21:39] Really cold water, I like to take it in through my mouth.

[21:42] Yeah.

[21:42] Into the inside of my body.

[21:43] Oh, that's the best.

[21:44] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[21:44] And Josh, you're one of those guys who wakes up at four in the morning and sticks your face in a bowl.

[21:48] In a bowl of freezing cold water.

[21:49] Yeah.

[21:50] Freezing cold water.

[21:51] Skin on.

Elliott Kalan

[21:52] Skin on, yeah.

[21:53] Look at the results.

[21:53] That's where all the nutrients are.

[21:54] Yeah, exactly.

[21:55] And you also – you sleep with tape on your mouth so that you can breathe through your nose the healthy way?

[21:59] Mm-hmm.

S4

[21:59] That's so my nose doesn't stop grinding when I'm asleep.

[22:02] Mm-hmm.

[22:04] No plays off for the nose.

Elliott Kalan

[22:07] So he has a vision of himself in a suit and a tree, and he becomes fixated on this tree for much of the movie.

[22:16] And he writes a letter to Aaron Brockovich about his troubles.

[22:19] We learn that – so this is a weird thing to learn off camera is that when he was thrown out of the city council meeting that he punched one of the security guards and went to jail and got bailed out.

[22:30] And this is information that we're just told in his voiceover to Aaron Brockovich.

[22:35] And it makes me wonder, did they not – did they forget to shoot this?

[22:38] Did they shoot it and it just didn't work?

[22:39] Or like lost the location.

[22:40] You're arguing that –

[22:40] Lost the location.

[22:41] Pool Man.

[22:43] Pool Man was too short for you, Elliot.

[22:44] That's your problem?

[22:45] No, no.

[22:45] I'm arguing – I'm wondering why Pool Man would remove one of the few moments of action or thrill that it might have had.

Stuart Wellington

[22:50] Also, there could be an element of that it – like seeing him hit somebody as opposed to just hearing about it is different.

[22:57] That's possible.

[22:58] Like seeing somebody commit an act of violence, like it changes your feel towards the character.

Elliott Kalan

[23:02] It's just a strange thing to find out happened between scenes.

[23:05] Yeah.

[23:05] You see it in movies sometimes, but it's usually a result of – they've edited out a scene because it wasn't working and they have to – they have dialogue to explain it, you know?

Stuart Wellington

[23:15] You say he's wearing a suit and I do have to point out that Chris Pine wears some incredible outfits in this movie.

Elliott Kalan

[23:19] You can tell Chris Pine dressed himself because he has a great sense of style.

[23:23] He wears great clothes.

[23:24] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[23:24] And he's constantly eating at Langer's.

Elliott Kalan

[23:26] Yes.

[23:27] Yes.

[23:27] They do get – they get food from Langer's, which is a – it's a good deli.

[23:30] It's right near the MaxFun offices, you know?

[23:33] Or it was.

[23:33] I don't remember where they –

Stuart Wellington

[23:34] Is that your favorite L.A. deli, L.A.?

Elliott Kalan

[23:37] I think my favorite might be Arts.

Stuart Wellington

[23:39] Uh-huh.

[23:39] Which is the one with the – what's the one by Hollywood – is it by Sunset?

[23:45] What's the one with – that has the Kibitz room attached to it, the bar?

Elliott Kalan

[23:49] Oh, I think you're thinking of Schmelberger's deli.

[23:53] Yeah.

[23:54] That's not true.

[23:55] I don't know which one.

[23:56] I haven't yet gotten to explore the delis of L.A. the way – I've still never been to Cantor's, which is the like famous one.

Dan McCoy

[24:01] Cantor's is the one you're talking about, I think, Stuart.

[24:03] Oh, okay.

[24:04] Thank you.

[24:04] We got so jealous of L.A. podcasts talking about local shit all the time.

Stuart Wellington

[24:09] Now we're in on the action.

Dan McCoy

[24:11] Deli at Kaelin.

[24:12] L.A.

[24:12] Deli at Los Angeles pastrami roundup.

[24:15] Hey, guys.

Stuart Wellington

[24:16] Hey, guys.

[24:17] La Cienega.

Elliott Kalan

[24:18] Yep.

[24:19] That's a place.

[24:20] That's a thing.

[24:20] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[24:21] Yeah, that's your other catchphrase.

[24:22] Deli at.

Elliott Kalan

[24:23] Deli at.

[24:24] Well, that's when I'm running for the Jewish vote in L.A.

[24:28] I go, Deli at Kaelin.

[24:30] Half sour pickle on the side of it.

[24:32] That's what that is.

[24:34] I mean, that's the first law I want to push through in the L.A. City Council.

[24:37] All sandwiches come with a pickle.

[24:39] Just three.

[24:39] You don't have to pay for that.

[24:41] Okay, Zoran.

Dan McCoy

[24:42] You're social pickle distribution.

[24:46] These pickles are too damn high.

[24:46] How can we afford this, Elliot?

[24:48] A few.

[24:49] We're back to New York references.

[24:51] There you go.

[24:51] I feel comfortable.

Elliott Kalan

[24:52] Josh, you wanted to say something?

[24:53] I assume not about my campaign for mayor of L.A.?

[24:55] No, it was about that.

[24:56] No.

[24:56] Okay.

S4

[24:57] I do, like Stuart said, I like the outfits.

[25:01] I think the movie looks kind of fun.

[25:04] Like you were saying, it has an L.A. feel.

[25:06] It's a good-looking movie.

Elliott Kalan

[25:06] I don't know who did the cinematography on it.

[25:10] So the cinematography, I'm looking at him now, is Matthew Jensen.

[25:12] Okay.

[25:13] Who's done a lot of stuff.

[25:15] Yeah.

[25:15] And it looks great.

Dan McCoy

[25:17] Well, yeah.

[25:17] I wanted to say, like, I would argue that Chris Pine as a director, like, the issues here are Chris Pine screenwriter more than they are Chris Pine director.

[25:27] Like, I think he gets good performances out of everyone.

[25:29] I think it looks good.

[25:31] You know, like, I know he's working with other technicians, but, like, he's, you know, he directed, like, a good-looking movie.

Stuart Wellington

[25:36] And I know he wasn't the casting director, but I'm assuming a big part of the cast was, oh, yeah, I'll work with Chris Pine.

[25:42] Yes.

[25:42] Totally.

Elliott Kalan

[25:42] So this is actually, I'm finding out now, this is the cinematographer, Matthew Jensen.

[25:46] This is his second appearance on The Flophouse because he also was the cinematographer for Josh Trank's Fantastic Four, which we saw.

[25:53] Oh, wow.

Stuart Wellington

[25:54] He made it through that crucible.

Elliott Kalan

[25:56] But it looks like his earliest film was, have you ever seen the movie Man of the Century, where there's, it's 1999, but there's a guy who looks and talks like it's the 20s.

[26:05] And it's a, it's like a, it's a kind of ridiculous idea for a movie, but I remember seeing it a long time ago.

[26:11] So I'm like, oh, that's funny that he also worked on another movie about a guy who, like, is nostalgic for an earlier time, basically.

[26:18] But that was a New York one.

[26:19] So, anyway, let's get back to this movie because there's so much more to talk about because we're about to get to the femme fatale character.

[26:26] That's right.

[26:27] Stephen Tobolowsky's new executive assistant, June, comes to see Darren.

[26:31] She's the one who bailed him out of jail, and she wants his help.

[26:34] She says the councilman has been accepting bribes, and she thinks he's going to accept one from Teddy Hollandaise, who I should just mention now.

[26:41] It's played by Clancy Brown.

[26:43] Oh, yeah.

[26:44] And she wants him to, I guess, just find evidence of this bribe.

[26:48] And Darren is like, no, I'm not going to do it.

[26:50] I'm not a detective.

[26:51] Darren has a therapy session with Diane.

[26:52] He's in tears, I think, in this one because he saw that tree in his meditation.

[26:56] And she's like, you have to confront that tree.

[26:59] And Darren, against Diane's wishes, decides he's going to take this detective case.

[27:04] And Jack is like, you should do it.

[27:05] This will be great for our documentary.

[27:07] And Darren's like, this is what Erin Brockovich would have done.

[27:09] I'm going to take this detective case.

[27:11] Don't know why he couldn't have made that decision in the earlier scene since he's already obsessed with Erin Brockovich.

[27:17] Like, he could have just looked at her picture on his wall, which is on there, and done it.

S4

[27:20] Or his typewriter, which he uses to write her the letters.

Elliott Kalan

[27:24] Yeah.

[27:24] That's when he gets pastrami from Langer's.

[27:26] He's one of those guys.

[27:27] Real Tom Hanks.

[27:30] He gets pastrami from Langer's.

[27:32] And then the place that I got sandwiches from for my wife after our second son was born.

[27:37] She didn't want any more hospital food.

[27:39] So I ran on down to Langer's and got her sandwiches there.

[27:41] Okay, I'll put that in my notebook right next to Stuart likes cold water in his showers.

[27:46] Look, Elliot and Deliet.

[27:48] The deli is an important part of my family life.

[27:51] And then they watch Chinatown.

[27:52] And luckily for us, they see the scene in Chinatown where the guy explains that L.A. is a desert town and it needs water because underneath our feet it's a desert.

Stuart Wellington

[28:01] Is this the equivalent of like a sci-fi movie where you walk into like a college professor giving a speech that explains exactly what the point of the movie is?

[28:11] Exactly.

Elliott Kalan

[28:11] And that's why polymer strands, when stretched too far, lead to dimensional rifts.

[28:16] Anyway, that's the bell.

[28:19] The homework assignment is pages 2,500 through 3,300.

[28:23] Every college professor I've learned from movies cannot accurately time their own lectures.

[28:29] And they're always yelling the homework assignment as everyone is rushing to get out of the room.

[28:33] Man, the syllabus is probably online.

[28:35] Just tell them the syllabus is online.

[28:37] They also always get to the most important part of the lecture right as the bell is hitting because that's when the FBI agent or NYPD officer or NASA scientist or whatever is walking into the room.

[28:46] Because they also cannot get the schedule right for the class.

Stuart Wellington

[28:50] I would imagine like a cop and not a cop are walking in.

[28:53] They're about to do some kind of investigation.

[28:56] Not a cop could be anything.

[28:58] Like a magician.

[28:58] A chef, a magician.

[28:59] Yeah, yeah, anything.

[29:00] Yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[29:01] Especially if the professor is a bad guy professor.

[29:04] So when they walk in, he's always like, and that's how you remove all the skin from a living person.

[29:08] Oh, that's the end of class.

[29:10] Okay.

[29:10] The homework assignment is to find out I'm a serial killer.

[29:12] And then the cop and not a cop come and talk to him.

[29:15] And he's like, oh, well.

[29:16] He's always like fiddling with the chalk, you know.

[29:18] Sure.

[29:18] Hope you catch that chicken cutlet killer.

S4

[29:23] This is one for Delia again.

Elliott Kalan

[29:25] Hope you catch BF Skin Man.

Dan McCoy

[29:28] I love his solo stuff.

[29:32] It's pretty sassy of the serial killer to give himself a pun name like that.

[29:37] It was the New York Post.

[29:39] Yeah, the Post did it.

Elliott Kalan

[29:40] The Post did it.

[29:41] This is a New York-based thing.

[29:43] But not the kind of thing I talk about now that I'm L.A. at Kaling.

[29:46] Yeah, the L.A.-based Elliot.

[29:47] So they take the case.

[29:50] They watch Chinatown.

[29:52] He goes to June's apartment.

[29:54] I don't remember why.

[29:55] And they're both dressed like old movie stars.

[29:57] And they kind of semi-flirt.

[29:58] And she's very – putting it on very heavy.

[30:01] This kind of like melodramatic femme fatale, you know, kind of every line is weighted with some kind of subtext.

[30:08] They blow out a match together.

[30:09] And then they go to dinner together.

[30:10] And did I miss the part where she says, come and have dinner with me before he just shows up at her apartment?

Dan McCoy

[30:15] You're really, you know, like obsessed with things not happening on screen that really could be assumed.

[30:20] Like this is the sort of stuff that usually I feel like you're like, yeah, just move it along, movie.

[30:25] But here you're like, no, I need everything explained.

Elliott Kalan

[30:26] Well, I think the issue of this – something I said before the movie – before we started recording was it's weird to see a movie that doesn't have a core.

[30:33] And I kind of – I think my issue is that I kind of kept waiting for the movie to like –

[30:37] Kick in?

[30:37] Act like it was a movie.

[30:39] To kick in and act like there was a story and not just like a collection of scenes where things are happening.

[30:43] And I'm like, movie, if there's a mystery of any kind or there's a conspiracy a guy is supposed to dig into, you got to give me some of the linkages.

[30:50] Like you can't – it can't just be – unless that's what the movie is about.

[30:54] But that – it doesn't feel like that's what this movie is about.

[30:56] You know, it's – anyway, Josh, what are you going to say?

S4

[30:58] No, I'm with – it's really kind of free-floating.

[31:01] I wanted to say – I made a note.

[31:02] This was so funny to me.

[31:04] I was watching – I was watching this movie with my wife, Maris.

[31:06] His book came out last week.

[31:08] I want to burn this place down.

[31:09] What a wife guy.

[31:10] He's always mentioning his wife.

[31:11] Yeah, Rob Zombie over here.

[31:13] She didn't make it to the end of the movie.

[31:16] She lived, but she walked out of the room.

[31:18] Oh, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[31:19] But she – when they're showing –

[31:21] She didn't say I can't take any more of this movie and just slice her own throat open.

[31:24] Yeah, yeah.

[31:25] She bugs her.

S4

[31:26] But when they were watching Chinatown, she goes, yeah, Chris Evans, this is your Chinatown.

[31:34] Chris Pine, and she's like, whatever.

[31:38] Oh, she shouldn't even get what Chris was.

Stuart Wellington

[31:40] Chris Evans' Chinatown would be Chinatown in Boston.

Elliott Kalan

[31:44] Which is a good Chinatown.

[31:46] There's a lot of great Chinatowns.

[31:47] Look, if you go to a city, you go to Chinatown, whatever Chinatown they have there, you're going to find something good there.

[31:53] You know, it's – there's – I'm a big fan of Chinatowns in general, the movies and the places.

[31:59] So they –

[31:59] Shanghai-liot game.

[32:02] You know what?

[32:03] L.A. has a Chinatown.

[32:04] And a Japan town and a Koreatown and a historic Filipino town.

[32:08] And as mayor, I will represent all of those different constituencies, not the way I think they should be represented, but the way they need to be represented, the way they want to be represented.

[32:16] I'm listening to you, L.A.

[32:17] He's really crushing it.

[32:19] He is.

[32:19] Yeah, thank you.

[32:19] I should run for mayor of L.A.

[32:21] I mean, I don't know where anything is in the city.

[32:23] But I kind of feel like nobody in L.A. knows where anything is in the city.

[32:25] I don't know where anything is in the city.

[32:28] Where am I now?

[32:32] So they have a very seductive dinner.

[32:34] It's very mysterious.

[32:35] He's a doof.

[32:36] And then when they leave, she gets in a real tiny car and drives off.

[32:39] And he follows her to a mansion and sees her talking to somebody in silhouette.

[32:44] And he writes to Aaron and Brockovich.

[32:45] He's like, this is great.

[32:46] Everything is going well.

[32:48] And so he's meditating in the pool again.

[32:52] And in his meditation, someone says hi to him.

[32:55] We'll later find out this is a lizard.

[32:57] The next day, he talks to Jack for a while.

[33:00] Jack tells him a long story that I cannot remember what it was about.

[33:03] And then suddenly they're trailing Council President Tobolowsky or Council Committee Chairman Tobolowsky.

[33:08] And they see him at a racetrack.

[33:09] He gets a handoff from some goons.

S4

[33:11] The story was about doing hash in Cape Cod.

[33:14] On Cape Cod.

[33:15] While he was doing community theater.

[33:17] While he was doing children's community theater.

[33:18] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[33:19] Which may be a real story from Danny DeVito's life.

[33:21] It had that feeling of Chris Pine being like, Danny, just talk.

[33:25] Just say anything.

[33:26] You know, just monologue.

Dan McCoy

[33:27] Josh, like they mentioned Massachusetts in here.

[33:29] It's fucked up.

[33:30] I really fucked up.

[33:30] I was like, ah.

Elliott Kalan

[33:32] So guys, I'm going to talk about another thing that didn't make sense to me about this movie.

[33:35] A movie that is a loosely agglomerated collection of scenes.

[33:39] The goons who work for Teddy Hollandaise.

[33:41] Why are they dressed like the guys from Miami Vice?

[33:43] A show that is famously not set in Los Angeles.

Stuart Wellington

[33:46] That's a good question, Dan.

Dan McCoy

[33:49] I mean, is that not a style that you'll see in LA too, though?

[33:52] I feel like that's a warm weather.

Elliott Kalan

[33:55] I mean, they look.

[33:56] But they seem so specifically patterned after the guys in Miami Vice.

S4

[33:59] It's also a lot of the stuff in the movie.

[34:01] Not to like digress.

[34:02] But I think it's of a piece with like the things in this movie all look like they're not from the present.

[34:08] Even though the movie clearly takes place in the present.

[34:10] Yes.

[34:10] Like that is.

[34:11] Everything is stylized to be like a little off.

[34:15] And a little like out of time.

Elliott Kalan

[34:16] It feels like he's going at.

[34:18] For all that we've talked about, like the big Lebowski and Chinatown.

[34:20] It feels like he's also going for a Wes Anderson feel.

[34:23] A lot of stuff in that way.

[34:24] And it's, I feel like, I know Stewart does not like Wes Anderson particularly.

[34:28] But I feel like Wes Anderson is successful at it.

[34:31] Partly because he creates this feeling of like this exists in its own special universe.

[34:35] That has this way of being.

[34:37] Whereas this feels so much like, it's still like LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA.

[34:41] The old LA.

[34:42] The new LA.

[34:42] That you're like, well, you got to ground it in Los Angeles then, I guess.

[34:45] Like it can't just be in Chris Pine's head.

[34:48] The way that Wes Anderson's movies very clearly take place in a dollhouse.

[34:51] I'll disagree.

Dan McCoy

[34:52] I think that that, I mean, like if it's a guy who's obsessed with old LA, it kind of

[34:55] makes sense that, you know, like he's, you know, we're taking, like it is sort of like

[35:01] an existence head.

[35:01] And we're seeing all these like older places.

[35:05] Like the hotel he works at seems like a mid-sensory hotel.

[35:08] Like just like a kind of seedy rundown.

Elliott Kalan

[35:11] It's not the places so much.

[35:13] The cars.

[35:13] If he's supposed to be the guy who is the old LA, kind of the guy who wants it so badly.

[35:18] And the people he's in opposition with should not also be old LA style people.

[35:23] Right?

[35:23] Like they're, you've got, you've got to differentiate your characters a little bit.

[35:27] You can't have, if the whole point, if the, yeah.

[35:29] So I feel like that's a, it's a thematic failing.

[35:31] I mean, it looks, it looks, it looks awesome.

[35:33] It looks great.

S4

[35:34] All the costumes look really cool.

[35:35] All the cars look really cool.

[35:37] As much as.

[35:38] No, I was just saying we, we are being, I think pretty negative about the movie because

[35:43] it's not a very good movie, but there are, there were lots of like little glimmers

[35:46] that I was like, oh, that's fun.

[35:48] Like I just, I have that in my head too much of like, that's fun.

[35:53] Like her going, asking what he wants to drink.

[35:55] I think it was June did this and he says water.

[35:57] And they go, make sense.

[35:58] You're a pool man.

[35:59] And it's like those like tiny little jokes where someone goes, things change.

[36:02] And he goes, well, they shouldn't.

[36:04] That's like a very Wes Anderson line.

[36:06] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[36:07] And at the, at the very end, the Wes Anderson part really hit me more.

[36:10] At the very end, two characters that say they're going to Paris.

[36:12] And when we see them in a scene, a group scene, they're wearing like literally striped shirts

[36:17] and berets.

[36:17] And it's like, oh, okay.

[36:19] Cartoon Paris.

[36:19] Or the end of the big adventure.

[36:22] The Wes Anderson movie of its day.

[36:24] You know.

[36:24] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[36:24] But I mean, I think on some level, there's a, there's a feel like he is, he is only a

[36:29] few steps removed from a Pee Wee type character.

[36:32] Yes.

[36:32] Like I feel like this, this movie doesn't, wouldn't hate that comparison.

Elliott Kalan

[36:36] No, but I think that one of the, I just having seen Pee Wee's big venture a few times recently

[36:40] because my kids got into it.

[36:41] Like one of the things that movie does so well is the balance between Pee Wee's world and

[36:46] how weird the real world is, but also how not exactly like Pee Wee.

Stuart Wellington

[36:51] Elliot, I got to, this is, this is a little tough guy test here.

[36:53] This is an official tough guy test.

[36:55] How, how well do your boys do with the large Marge bit?

Elliott Kalan

[36:58] Oh, they were fine.

[36:59] I warned them about it ahead of time.

[37:00] Okay.

[37:01] I was like, I shit my pants.

[37:02] Like straight up.

[37:04] When I was a kid, I could not watch it.

[37:06] It was so scary.

[37:07] And so I told them there's two scary parts in this movie.

[37:09] And we can fast forward through them if you want.

[37:12] And they, and the large Marge, afterwards they're like, that was it?

[37:15] It was like claymation.

[37:16] Like they had no, it meant nothing to them, you know?

Stuart Wellington

[37:18] Well.

[37:18] Okay.

[37:19] Yeah.

[37:19] You got to get them to watch the ring next, I guess.

[37:21] And the other thing, you know, I mean.

Dan McCoy

[37:23] The other thing about Pew's Big Adventure is it helps that it has some of the funniest jokes in the world.

[37:28] Like if you're going to make a picaresque like story where it doesn't really matter what the plot is, it helps to just like have each individual thing be hilarious.

Elliott Kalan

[37:35] Well, there's a saying, I think, that like a good director can make a bad script look good.

[37:44] But like a bad director can ruin a good script or something like that.

[37:50] And I feel like the issue with this movie is the story.

[37:53] Like we said, is the script.

[37:55] Like, and it looks really cool.

[37:56] The actors are fun in it.

[37:57] There's a fun atmosphere to it.

[37:58] Like the atmosphere feels really fun.

[38:00] But while you're watching it, you're just kind of like, what's happening?

[38:04] What am I seeing?

S4

[38:05] This is the kind of movie that I love too.

[38:08] It is like, I love like schlub meets a bunch of weirdos.

[38:13] That could be the description of so many of my favorite movies.

Elliott Kalan

[38:15] Name another movie that fits into the schlub meets a bunch of weirdos genre.

S4

[38:18] Gosh, I'm trying to think.

[38:19] I saw one pretty recently.

[38:21] But even like, okay, this is like delicate, physically slender woman meets a bunch of weirdos.

[38:28] But like even poor things kind of have that.

[38:31] And I liked where it's like, oh, here's a new weirdo and here's a new weirdo.

[38:34] And so I love like a person kind of getting blown through the world.

Stuart Wellington

[38:37] You think they're weird in that movie?

Elliott Kalan

[38:41] I think I might have talked in the podcast before about how badly I felt for the guys who were cast to play the Johns at the brothel that she's working at, poor things.

[38:50] Where I'm like, can we just put a casting notice out for guys you would never want to have sex with?

[38:55] Like, who's going to show up for this audition?

S4

[38:57] Can you just look in their eyes and just think their dick is gross?

Stuart Wellington

[39:01] Yeah, they were auditioning for that and Zola at the same time.

S4

[39:07] But it's a kind of movie that I really like, but it just feels like every scene.

[39:11] Like I recently was talking about The Big Lebowski for a different friends podcast.

[39:15] I won't, you know, not going to.

[39:17] Please don't mention.

[39:17] Start an East Coast, West Coast rivalry, even though they're both on West Coast.

Elliott Kalan

[39:20] East Coast, West Coast can be friends.

[39:22] Look, this podcast right here, you got two New York guys and one L.A. guy, L.A. stalwart, L.A. Kalen.

[39:28] We can bring this together.

[39:29] L.A. to the bone over there.

[39:31] Born and raised except for the first 35 years of my life.

S4

[39:37] But in Lebowski, every scene is just so fun and full of interesting, weird stuff.

[39:44] And these scenes, this movie, it feels like they're trying to kind of rev up the charm and the quirk, but it doesn't quite get there.

[39:53] And so you see it looks great and you can see these performances are really good, but they just don't have that much fun stuff to do.

[40:00] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[40:01] It feels like an attempt to do a Lebowski where they didn't give them business.

[40:09] Like he brought people in and were like, okay, and go.

[40:12] And didn't necessarily give them like, here's what your character does.

Stuart Wellington

[40:14] It's like he had the idea of the type of movie he wanted to make, but forgot that there also should be a movie somewhere in there.

Elliott Kalan

[40:22] Yes, yeah.

[40:23] And so getting back to the movie in there somewhere.

[40:26] The next day, so they go to this handoff.

[40:29] They see what looks like the Tobolowsky taking a bribe.

[40:33] And they're all there as a group watching.

[40:36] And they're being pretty loud.

[40:37] Which is kind of funny.

[40:39] And Diane's just reading out loud from the book that she's got.

[40:41] Would you believe it's Knausgaard?

S4

[40:44] Is that what it was?

[40:44] I think so.

[40:45] Oh, okay.

[40:46] Was that my struggle?

[40:47] Yeah, I think that's what I clocked.

[40:49] And I was like, this certainly isn't Hitler's my struggle.

[40:51] No.

Elliott Kalan

[40:52] And you know what?

[40:53] I read the wrong book.

[40:54] I read Mice Truggle.

[40:56] And I just didn't even find out what truggling was.

[40:58] How one mice would do it.

[41:00] Yeah.

[41:01] I just, I picked up the wrong book.

[41:03] And that's on me.

[41:03] That's on me.

[41:05] Picked up the wrong book?

Dan McCoy

[41:07] Because to read along with Pool Man?

[41:09] Yeah.

[41:09] What do you mean?

Elliott Kalan

[41:11] You don't do that?

[41:12] Yeah, you don't read.

S4

[41:13] When you watch a movie, you're not like, I got to read the book that they're reading in it.

[41:16] Yeah.

[41:17] I do.

[41:18] Every month I read Oprah's book club pick.

[41:20] I read Pool Man's book club pick.

Elliott Kalan

[41:24] That tells me there's a lot of zen in the art of motorcycle.

[41:26] There's a lot of that in Pool Man's book club.

Dan McCoy

[41:27] A collection of his letters to Aaron Brockovich.

Elliott Kalan

[41:30] Oh, yeah.

[41:30] The Brockovich letters.

[41:31] Yeah.

[41:32] So it turns out a lot of the characters are carrying guns.

[41:35] This is something that never plays into anything, which is fine.

[41:37] It's just kind of a joke.

[41:38] But it's just kind of, it's one of the wackier moments in the movie for me where I'm like,

[41:43] oh, so they're just all carrying guns all the time?

[41:44] Because that's not an L.A. thing.

[41:46] Not in my L.A.

[41:46] Wayne.

[41:47] Elliot Kalin's L.A. is a weapon-free zone.

[41:49] Wayne pulls the gun, right?

[41:51] Wayne does, but then also Susan has one.

[41:55] Oh, okay.

[41:56] And I think Diana has a weapon of some kind.

S4

[41:59] Susan has like a taser.

[42:01] Oh, that's a taser.

[42:02] And Wayne, I think they do kind of pay off, not to spoil it too much.

[42:05] I mean, that's true.

[42:06] There's an explanation why he would have a gun.

Stuart Wellington

[42:08] This is also where he finds out that Wayne and Susan have been having an affair and they're in love.

[42:12] Yes.

[42:12] And that he is effectively broken up with.

Elliott Kalan

[42:15] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[42:15] Susan is going out with Wayne, who until this point has seemed kind of like a lackey for Darren.

[42:22] And they take pictures and they run away.

[42:25] Yeah.

[42:26] He discovers they're in love.

[42:27] He gets upset.

[42:27] He meditates again.

[42:28] He sees a talking lizard.

[42:30] June comes over.

[42:31] She's like, I know you were following me.

[42:33] That was my uncle's house.

[42:34] My uncle is taking care of my mom because she's sick.

[42:36] And they kiss and she leaves.

[42:38] And he goes, and Darren goes, wait a minute.

[42:41] The guys I saw with Toronkowski, they work for Hollandaise.

[42:46] So he goes to Hollandaise's office.

[42:48] And this is one of the scenes where it's like clues just fall into his lap basically.

[42:53] And I guess maybe that's part of the issue I'm having with it is he meets William Van Patterson, played by Ray Wise.

[42:59] Oh, yeah.

[43:00] Who is investing in one of Hollandaise's housing projects.

[43:02] And then Hollandaise just talks to Darren for a little bit.

[43:05] And he's like, hey, tells him a story.

[43:07] This is how I got my job.

[43:08] There's a job here for you.

[43:09] And Darren goes, you bribed Tobolowsky.

Stuart Wellington

[43:12] And I got to say, if you see Clancy Brown and Ray Wise walking out of the office like laughing together, you know they're up to something.

[43:19] Yeah.

[43:19] Always have trouble brewing.

Elliott Kalan

[43:21] Yeah.

[43:22] And it's too bad that we never see them together again.

[43:25] Like I would like it's like, oh, that's the movie I want to see is Clancy Brown and Ray Wise like being bad guys together.

[43:32] Then he says – he goes, oh, there's so much more that you don't know about Tobolowsky.

[43:35] He's hiding something over at the Moody Mule Bar.

[43:38] And Darren goes there and walks into the best scene in the movie, which is a scene from The Golden Girls.

[43:44] Because Councilman Torinowski is – his secret is that he plays Blanche in a drag cabaret version of The Golden Girls.

[43:53] And it leads to Darren –

[43:54] I love it so much.

[43:55] And the pull man is taken by this very much.

Dan McCoy

[43:57] Like he's genuinely like this guy is doing great work on stage.

[44:01] I love this.

[44:02] He loves it.

Elliott Kalan

[44:02] And it's – and I think the best scene in the movie is –

Stuart Wellington

[44:05] That shit would crush in Brooklyn right now.

[44:08] For sure.

Elliott Kalan

[44:09] Yeah.

[44:09] And the – and then the best scene in the movie I think is Darren goes to confront Tobolowsky in the green room.

[44:14] And they kind of both cry together and apologize to each other.

[44:18] And Tobolowsky talks about how like it's so brave that you can just be the person that you are.

[44:23] And I don't know how to be the person that I am.

[44:25] And I was like there's a much better movie built around this scene that I wish I was watching.

S4

[44:29] You know.

[44:29] It's really lovely and it's like it's – there's this funny like frisson of he's like oh you came here to like tell me you're going to out me.

[44:38] And he's like no I just want like the trolleys to work.

[44:40] I don't want you to be corrupt.

Elliott Kalan

[44:42] And that Darren is like no I love this.

[44:44] You should keep doing this.

[44:45] I think it's great.

[44:46] But I want trolleys back.

[44:46] This makes me like you're so much better.

S4

[44:48] The rest of the movie he's talking about like man you should have seen him.

[44:52] He's stunning as Blanche.

[44:53] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[44:54] I do like that he's like no I like you more because it's like it's difficult for him.

[44:58] I used to see you as just a bad guy.

[44:59] But now I know that you have the side of you.

[45:01] And it's like –

Stuart Wellington

[45:02] I would also normally cast Tobolowsky as a Dorothy.

[45:06] Okay.

[45:07] Blanche.

Elliott Kalan

[45:08] You think –

[45:08] It worked.

[45:09] It worked.

[45:10] That's the thing about Tobolowsky.

[45:10] I can see him as a Dorothy.

[45:12] I can see him as a Sophia.

[45:13] I can see him as a rose.

[45:14] He could be any one of those characters.

S4

[45:16] He's also a rabbi in this movie that gets mentioned a few times but you never see him.

[45:20] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[45:20] You see that he has a yarmulke on.

[45:23] But you never see –

[45:23] Like the idea that he's a rabbi is something that doesn't play in otherwise.

[45:28] And it's like is it just supposed to be funny, the idea of someone being a rabbi like that anti-Semitic Netflix show?

[45:33] Or is it –

Stuart Wellington

[45:34] Isn't that anti-Semitic Netflix show?

[45:37] You know the one I'm talking about with the rabbi in it.

[45:38] Yeah, I texted you guys about that.

Elliott Kalan

[45:40] You did.

[45:41] I remember Stuart texting me saying, is this show anti-Semitic?

[45:44] Charlene wants to know.

Dan McCoy

[45:46] And I was like –

[45:47] And you, of course, are the one who rules on this.

Stuart Wellington

[45:50] I also texted Josh this, I think.

[45:52] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[45:52] And I came down the side of – I don't think it's anti-Semitic but it certainly does not like Jewish women, that show.

Stuart Wellington

[45:57] It also –

[45:58] It's a wild world where people in L.A. are just mystified by Jewish practices.

[46:05] They're like, do I feed them bagels?

[46:07] Terrible show about podcasting.

[46:09] Yes.

[46:10] It's also –

[46:11] That was more upsetting to me.

Dan McCoy

[46:13] Yeah.

[46:14] Can I just say –

[46:15] Yeah, I also agree this is the –

[46:17] Like this is like a five-star scene in an otherwise not as good movie.

[46:22] Otherwise like a two-star movie, yeah.

[46:23] But I also –

[46:24] I was like thinking about like, you know, why is this so great?

[46:26] Like part of it is I just always love a movie –

[46:30] a scene in a movie where like two people who had been at odds like have a moment where they come together,

[46:37] where they see each other as like humanity.

[46:39] But also this is the one scene in the movie I think that two characters are actually like connecting to one another.

[46:45] Like literally every other scene people are like talking past one another or have some like reason they're not being honest.

[46:52] And this is like the one honest scene between people.

Elliott Kalan

[46:54] And you don't get to see Stephen Tobolowsky play a character with this much kind of life going on, this much emotion going on.

[47:02] He's almost usually just like doing character parts.

[47:05] And so it was great for him.

[47:07] But I agree, Dan.

[47:07] And that's a really good point that like it's two characters talking to each other rather than talking around each other.

[47:13] And it's like a – it's an example of like it makes me – you know what?

[47:17] Thinking about it now, after watching Full Man the first time, I was like I don't know if I'm that interested in seeing whatever Chris Pine does himself next.

[47:24] But if it's more in the style of this scene rather than the rest of the movie, then it could be really good.

[47:29] You know.

[47:30] So it is a really good scene.

[47:32] I don't love the ending, which is that someone shoots Tobolowsky from off screen and then literally just tosses the gun into Darren's hands and goes, whoa!

[47:40] And it's like if he's close enough to toss the gun in your hand, you should have seen him.

[47:44] It's a little bit like the end of Jurassic Park where they've done so – they've made such a big deal out of how a Tyrannosaurus, if it's anywhere near you, you feel the ground shake.

[47:54] And yet this Tyrannosaurus manages to tiptoe up and surprise a rapture and bite it out of the air.

[47:57] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[47:57] He's in stealth mode, yeah.

[47:59] He's wearing sneakers in this one scene.

Stuart Wellington

[48:01] Yeah, he pushed the right trigger and he crouched.

Elliott Kalan

[48:04] Couldn't hear him.

[48:05] But it's a really good scene.

[48:07] But unfortunately it ends with Tobolowsky dying.

[48:10] With his last breath, he tells Darren, follow the water because Chinatown.

[48:15] Meditating in a pool again.

[48:17] The lizard sees that talking lizard again.

[48:20] Darren wakes up.

[48:20] He's with Jack and Diane.

[48:21] He is spiraling.

[48:22] Jack is turning down a lucrative sitcom directing job.

[48:25] Oh, that was pretty funny.

[48:26] They offer him $75,000 an episode to direct.

Stuart Wellington

[48:30] Well, I love the way the scene is set up where he's explaining this offer and you can see Diane getting so excited for him.

[48:37] And then he's like, I turned it down.

Elliott Kalan

[48:40] Well, this is a pro right there.

[48:42] Also, it's a good moment.

[48:43] Like you don't get to know much about Jack and Diane's history.

[48:46] But they do a good job of like implying things.

[48:49] But also that moment where he's like, I got offered this amount of money to the sitcom.

[48:52] It's like, oh, so you're a person with a real career.

[48:54] Like you're not a – this is not a character who is like a never was, has been who is trying to get this documentary off the ground.

[49:00] Instead, he's a guy who like is well-known enough that they're going to pay him $75,000 an episode to direct a TV show.

Dan McCoy

[49:06] I don't want to play the logic police on Pool Man.

[49:10] But this –

[49:11] But I'm going to.

[49:12] This felt very strange to me because all the rest of the time you see Danny DeVito, he's like, did I remember to have a battery for this camera that I'm like –

S4

[49:20] That's what I like about it.

[49:21] His agent was also like not talking.

[49:24] Like he's like he hasn't returned my calls in 16 years or something.

Stuart Wellington

[49:27] Yeah, but I mean you guys work in film and television.

[49:29] You know that people in all levels are always incredibly competent.

[49:33] The people at the highest level is the most competent.

[49:35] And people have long memories.

Elliott Kalan

[49:37] That's for sure.

[49:38] But what that said to me is, oh, this guy had a career and then he screwed it up somehow.

[49:42] I agree.

[49:43] Yeah, totally.

[49:44] Which I really love, which I like a lot.

[49:45] That's like – to me, it's like, okay, well, that's good screenwriting because now I feel like this guy has a whole history that I didn't know about.

[49:52] Darren has a breakthrough.

[49:54] It must be that Ray Wise is stealing water from underneath this housing project.

[49:59] It's an unknown source of water that nobody knows about but him.

[50:02] And he runs off to June and accuses her of setting him up.

[50:05] And she reveals that – or she tells him that Ray Wise, Van Patterson, is actually her father.

[50:10] And he says this is all about water.

[50:12] The councilman was killed for having an attack of conscience and my mother is sick and Ray Wise has been taking care of my mother.

[50:18] But then she leaves and he immediately finds a portrait on the wall of June and Ray Wise that says the future Mr. and Mrs. Van Patterson.

[50:25] That's hilarious.

[50:26] That's really funny.

[50:27] It is hilarious.

[50:28] And that's the kind –

[50:29] It's just right behind him.

Stuart Wellington

[50:30] And I love that it's like a commissioned portrait with a nameplate for a future.

Elliott Kalan

[50:35] It's like a Grant Wood style American gothic portrait.

[50:38] That's crazy.

[50:38] And he's still married.

[50:40] It's so funny.

[50:41] It's a very funny – and it's like if this was more of a Pee-wee's Big Adventure movie, I think that would be a fantastic joke.

[50:47] But because this is a movie that's pretending to be a mystery, it's like – I'm like, all right, so this character really is an idiot that he never noticed this before.

[50:55] I like it.

Stuart Wellington

[50:55] I mean in the process of looking at it with what an origami Statue of Liberty with an actual flame, it catches fire.

[51:04] And his only option is to take off his shirt to put off the fire.

Elliott Kalan

[51:09] Yeah, so that he can then put on what like a cape or something like that and jump on a moped.

[51:13] He finds that portrait and he also – he finds that portrait and then he tastes the almonds that she's serving.

[51:18] And he realizes it has the same spice blend coating as Ray Wise's character's almonds.

[51:23] And it's like you don't need another piece of evidence.

[51:25] It's already – like you know what's going on.

[51:28] Right, that should have been before he saw the painting and everything.

[51:31] Yes, exactly.

[51:31] He runs off.

[51:32] The cops are chasing him.

[51:34] He's on a moped.

[51:35] He flees.

[51:35] He shows up at Van Patterson's house, interrupts Ray Wise in the middle of smothering his wife with a pillow.

[51:41] That's funny.

[51:43] This is what – like again, this is – it's pretty funny and it's like the movie – if the movie had a kind of manic feeling to it, then all throughout, then I would have been like this is great.

[51:52] But instead it's so lackadaisical and then at the end it's suddenly like bam, bam, bam, silly, silly, silly, you know.

S4

[51:57] I had fun with it and I felt like it – like the ending part.

[52:00] I was like this is silly.

[52:02] I'm having more fun than I was for the previous hour, ten or whatever.

[52:05] But it also reminded me of a lesser kind of auxiliary Coen work, which is drive-away dolls where the end just gets like looney tunes in a way that was not foreshadowed by the previous feel of the movie.

[52:20] And this kind of had that where it's like now we're going into seventh gear.

[52:23] You're like what?

Elliott Kalan

[52:25] And so they interrupt.

[52:26] It turns out he's like, I know what's going on.

[52:30] And Ray Wise is like, no, stupid.

[52:32] I'm murdering my wife for her almond farm.

[52:35] June is my lover.

[52:36] And like he just explains what he's doing to him.

[52:40] And Darren, still an idiot, says to June, I love you.

[52:44] We should run away together.

[52:45] And June is like, I've been using you this whole time.

[52:48] I'm Van Patterson's lover.

[52:49] Like, how many times do you have to learn this from me?

Stuart Wellington

[52:51] I mean, if you have an option like Ray Wise on the table, you go for it.

[52:55] Of course.

[52:56] The wise choice.

[52:58] Ray Wise for Mary Plus can't enjoy it.

[52:59] No, no.

[53:00] Don't promote Ray Wise.

[53:02] Don't promote Ray Wise as Mary will run.

[53:04] Oh, wow.

[53:04] I can't believe you came on the podcast.

[53:06] Wow.

[53:06] It's just a fuckiest game.

[53:07] Wow.

Elliott Kalan

[53:07] What a heel turn.

[53:08] What a heel turn.

[53:09] Ladies and gentlemen, no one expected this from Josh Gondelman, the nicest man in the business.

[53:14] Suddenly, total heel turn, going for Ray Wise.

[53:17] Oh, wow.

[53:17] It's John Cena turning evil all over.

S4

[53:20] Is that Ray Wise's music?

Elliott Kalan

[53:21] With a proverbial chair.

[53:23] Wait, what did you say?

Stuart Wellington

[53:24] What's Ray Wise's walkout music?

S4

[53:26] Well, the score of this film also I really liked.

[53:29] It was like fun and light and jazzy and it was done by Andrew Bird, I think.

[53:33] Yeah, yeah, it was.

[53:34] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[53:34] Anyway.

[53:35] I want to ask.

[53:35] There's a lot of good elements to this movie.

[53:37] We should make clear about that.

[53:38] This movie, I don't think works, but there's a lot of good elements to it.

Dan McCoy

[53:42] In a preview of my final judgments, I think this movie works best if you don't care about the plot.

[53:48] Yes.

[53:48] But even so, I'm going to ask a question like, what was she using him to do?

[53:54] Yeah.

[53:54] Like, why did she involve him?

Elliott Kalan

[53:56] It does seem like one of those movies where it would have been easier for the bad guys if they didn't do most of the stuff that they do to hide what they're doing.

S4

[54:04] Cut out the part where an unreliable idiot is the key to their whole plan.

Elliott Kalan

[54:09] My guess is that they're trying to use him to set up Tobolowsky to take the fall for whatever – for this water scheme.

[54:14] I see.

[54:14] So they're going to manipulate him into taking out the one guy who is having second thoughts about what's going on.

S4

[54:21] Right, because he was like, I'm about to be out.

[54:23] I was dirty, and now I want out of this plan.

[54:25] Right.

[54:25] And that's why they used the fall guy for the murder.

Elliott Kalan

[54:28] They solved that problem by shooting him in the head, which you'd think they could have done earlier without bringing in Darren at any point.

[54:34] For sure.

[54:35] Yeah.

[54:36] Especially because if you shoot someone in the head in an empty green room where there's nobody else there, there's nobody to connect you to the murder as opposed to needing to go to the trouble of bringing in a fall guy, setting him up to take the fall to be a patsy for it.

Stuart Wellington

[54:49] Yeah, who is notoriously not well-liked in what, like, civil court situations, basically.

Elliott Kalan

[54:55] Yeah.

[54:56] So –

[54:57] But who is visibly onto you.

[55:00] Yeah.

[55:01] She says, I was just using you.

[55:03] Van Patterson is about to shoot Darren when Wayne comes in, and they shoot him in the hand or something like that.

[55:09] Yeah, shoot the gun out of his hand or whatever.

[55:11] Wayne reveals that he's an undercover FBI agent.

[55:13] He has been investigating Van Patterson all this time.

[55:16] He arrests the Van Pattersons for stealing the city's water for their almond farm.

[55:22] And –

Stuart Wellington

[55:22] And Dan DeVito rushes in.

[55:24] He's filming the whole time.

[55:26] He's giving –

[55:26] I thought that was fun.

[55:27] He's giving Wayne notes.

[55:28] I thought that was pretty funny, Wayne notes to like –

Elliott Kalan

[55:30] Yeah, Dan DeVito, he's recording the whole thing to get ending for the movie.

[55:34] And things end really nicely between Wayne and Darren.

[55:37] And Darren has a therapeutic breakthrough.

[55:40] If I'm understanding correctly, it's that he remembers being abandoned by his mom under a tree or something like that or just being left under a tree.

[55:46] Like I don't – I was – that part lost me a little bit.

[55:50] Yeah, I don't remember.

[55:50] You know.

[55:51] And he writes to Aaron Brockovich again, and he's like, my friends and family – my friends are my family.

[55:55] I'm okay.

[55:56] And everyone in a very kind of Wes Anderson ending type thing, everyone gets together to watch the movie that Jack has made.

[56:05] And we see all the characters there.

[56:07] And it's at a city council meeting, and the city council offers him an official position in the office of change and beauty, which he then turns down and starts giving a final speech about LA's need for trolleys and how to perfect the bus schedule.

[56:20] And at the end, we see he has a framed letter from Aaron Brockovich on his wall, and he tapes a picture of Jack and Diane to it.

[56:26] End of movie.

[56:27] What an adventure.

[56:28] What a quest, you know.

Dan McCoy

[56:30] Yeah.

[56:31] We took a dip in that pool.

Stuart Wellington

[56:34] Yeah.

[56:34] Give us a couple more bars of pool, man, please.

[56:38] Come on, Josh.

[56:39] All my friends are Diane and Jack.

S4

[56:42] I clean the pool.

[56:44] They live out back.

[56:46] Okay.

Dan McCoy

[56:47] Pretty good.

[56:48] That's stuff.

[56:49] I'm kind of the Chris Cornell of this podcast.

Elliott Kalan

[56:51] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[56:53] People have often said that, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[56:55] Yeah, Chris Cornell's usually not here either.

[57:00] Yeah.

[57:01] Oh, Dan, I got some bad news.

[57:02] Oh, no.

[57:03] He's been here all this time.

[57:04] Oh, God.

S4

[57:05] Dan, every day typewriter is a letter to Chris Cornell.

[57:08] Uh-huh.

Stuart Wellington

[57:09] Are you still going hungry?

Dan McCoy

[57:13] This is the part of the podcast where we do our final judgments, whether this was a good, bad movie, a bad, bad movie, or a movie we kind of like.

[57:21] I think I'm going to shock a few members of our council here and say that I kind of like this movie.

[57:26] Even Yaddle?

Stuart Wellington

[57:27] Even Ki-Yaddy Mundi?

Dan McCoy

[57:29] Yep.

[57:29] Even them.

[57:31] I kind of like this movie.

[57:33] I agree that, like, the screenplay is kind of a mess.

[57:41] But, honestly, like many films noir, if you don't put too much energy into following the tangled plot and just sort of enjoy the vibe, I found it enjoyable and increasingly enjoyable as it went on.

[58:02] Like, the beginning, I thought, was the part where I'm like, this is going to be more of a slog.

[58:06] And then I got on its wavelength and, um.

[58:11] Wavelength?

[58:11] Yeah.

[58:12] Like a pool?

[58:13] Wave pool?

[58:14] I mean, this would be, this is a hard one.

[58:17] Like, I wouldn't necessarily.

[58:17] It's connecting the fucking dots over here.

[58:19] I wouldn't necessarily, like, recommend this movie to anyone because they would probably be furious.

[58:27] They would be like, what are you talking about?

[58:29] But if you, if you kind of have any curiosity about it, like, I don't know, there was, like, a lot of vitriol about this movie when it came out.

[58:37] Like, Rex Reed, who is not a good critic, but he was like, this is the worst movie of this year and many other years or whatever.

[58:42] I'm like, I don't know, man.

[58:44] I feel like people just expected, like, Chris Pine, he's in all these big movies.

[58:48] He was going to make something a little more, you know, wide appeal.

[58:52] And he didn't.

[58:53] He just made this shambling nonsense.

[58:57] And I feel like there used to be more room in cinema for shambling nonsense.

[59:02] And now people get mad if it doesn't fit into a box.

[59:05] That said, like, again, screenplay doesn't work.

[59:10] But I don't know.

[59:11] There was stuff about it I enjoyed.

[59:13] So that's where I fall.

Stuart Wellington

[59:15] Yeah, I'm kind of with you.

[59:17] This is a movie that I did not enjoy at first.

[59:20] But it, over time, it grew on me.

[59:23] I think starting with the Golden Girls sequence and then as it raced to the conclusion.

[59:29] It helps that I like a lot of the actors in it.

[59:32] I would say, I'm going to say this is a movie I kind of liked.

[59:35] I wasn't expecting to say that when I started watching it.

[59:38] All the comparisons to other, like, shaggy L.A., like, neo-noirs.

[59:43] Whether it's, you know, Under the Silver Lake, I think, is a really good one.

[59:46] Like, a really good touchstone here.

[59:48] Or something like Lodge 49.

[59:50] What was that show with Wyatt Russell?

[59:53] I also, I have a very soft spot for any movie where at the end all the characters get together and watch a movie of the movie you watch.

[1:00:00] I think there's this Spanish movie that was released under the title Witching and Bitching,

[1:00:04] where, like, all the characters, including the villains, are, like, hanging out watching the movie at the end, which I found very interesting.

[1:00:10] Yeah, there's another movie where that happens.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:12] I think it's about a guy who has a big adventure.

[1:00:14] I forgot his name.

[1:00:15] What movie is that?

[1:00:15] Yeah, I think his name rhymes with Gibi.

[1:00:18] Is it Little Guy?

[1:00:21] That's what it is.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:22] But yeah, so I'm going to say.

[1:00:24] That was the translated foreign.

[1:00:26] Yeah, that's the Spirit Halloween costume.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:30] The Spirit Halloween costume says, grown child.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:35] So yeah, I was, I'm surprised to say, I think this is a movie I kind of liked.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:40] I'm going to still call this a bad, bad movie.

[1:00:43] I feel like talking to you guys has made me like it more than when I watched it.

[1:00:46] And what that says to me is that I like the idea of it more than I like the actual thing of it.

[1:00:51] And I think, Dan, you make a good point that in a film noir movie, often the plot is too naughty and complicated and with twists and turns.

[1:00:58] Naughty?

[1:00:59] Yeah, naughty.

[1:01:00] You're not supposed to keep track of it.

[1:01:02] I think part of the issue here is that what's happening at the heart of it is not particularly complicated.

[1:01:06] It's very straightforward, but the main character is such an idiot that he's just having trouble figuring it out.

[1:01:12] And if that was the joke of the movie, as it seems to be at the very end, that what's happening is not that hard to untangle, but the main character is a moron, then that could be kind of a funny way to do it if he's just so in over his head.

[1:01:23] But instead, I think it just doesn't get that across.

[1:01:27] So I'm going to call it a bad, bad movie, but a bad, bad movie that has elements in it that I like.

[1:01:31] Josh, what do you think?

[1:01:32] I'm like right on the bubble.

S4

[1:01:34] I think I got to go with Dan and Stuart in that.

[1:01:37] You did it to me.

[1:01:38] Oh, no, it's fine.

[1:01:38] That's all right.

[1:01:39] That's okay.

[1:01:39] That's all right.

[1:01:40] Ray Wise is going to kick your ass in November, bud.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:43] My cage hammer, my cage money bag ladder match between Ray Wise.

[1:01:49] It's going to be terrible.

S4

[1:01:50] Loser leaves town.

[1:01:51] It's like not LA.

[1:01:52] No, no, not LA at Kalen.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:54] I can't be, I can't be LA Toledo, Kalen.

[1:01:56] It can't happen.

[1:01:57] No.

S4

[1:01:59] But I did, I think there was just like enough to like that I can't recommend it.

[1:02:04] But I, you know, I'm like, oh, that was, I had a fun time.

[1:02:08] Especially it picked up towards the end in a way that I was like, oh, you should go back

[1:02:12] and make the first two thirds of the movie match the last third, like the third act.

[1:02:16] Cause that was really fun and kind of zippy and zany in a way that I enjoy it.

[1:02:21] But it is, I truly can't say like, oh, you got to go see Pullman.

[1:02:26] It's like a hidden gem.

[1:02:27] But was I, Elliot, was you saying like, I don't, I, at first I thought I don't want to see what

[1:02:32] Chris Pine does next in the space.

[1:02:33] I kind of would like to see him direct with a script that someone else wrote because I

[1:02:38] do think I like, clearly I like his taste.

[1:02:41] I like what he is like, oh, I want to make one of these kinds of movies and just like

[1:02:45] hadn't the script just like, didn't support the kind of style of it.

[1:02:50] So I'm like kind of cautiously hoping that he does a different, better version of a kind

[1:02:57] of a quirky, adventuring, noir-y story.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:00] I think it's going to take a little bit of time before he can make another movie just based

[1:03:03] on the reception to this one.

[1:03:04] But, but I, it's like, I feel like while watching it, I felt the movie figuring out what

[1:03:10] it was as a movie.

[1:03:11] And unfortunately, that's not a fun process for me to watch because it's like the first

[1:03:16] half of the movie is, I was just like, come on movie.

[1:03:19] Like, like, give me something.

[1:03:21] Like, give me, like, give me a thing.

[1:03:23] But, and by the end, there's, there's fun stuff in it.

[1:03:26] But yeah, it's tough.

S4

[1:03:27] I think this, one thing that a lot of the movies you cover, big fan of the podcast,

[1:03:31] love to listen to it.

[1:03:33] One of the things.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:34] That's why we bring people onto our podcast to endorse our podcast.

[1:03:37] Still can't support Elliot's run for mayor.

S4

[1:03:39] I mean, vote for him for WGA board.

[1:03:43] I mean, the things I've heard him say on this show, I just can't, in good conscience.

[1:03:48] But I, I think a lot of movies that I really don't like feel like they're like, fuck you,

[1:03:54] you're going to watch this movie.

[1:03:55] Like, they're just like jamming the movie down my throat.

[1:03:58] And I like that this was bad in a way that like, they're figuring something out and like,

[1:04:03] working within a vision and it just didn't come together.

[1:04:06] And I like miss when movies were bad for that reason.

[1:04:09] And not just like, we spent $300 million on this turd and it's going to gross more money

[1:04:14] than you've ever heard of.

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:16] Well, there's, yeah, there's a joy to like a passion project like this, which we don't

[1:04:20] get very often.

[1:04:21] And there's a feeling where the movie isn't treating us like we're idiots.

[1:04:26] Yes.

[1:04:27] Yeah.

S4

[1:04:27] Which is nice.

[1:04:28] And it's not too self-serious.

[1:04:30] It's like, yeah.

[1:04:31] Yep.

[1:04:31] Anyway.

[1:04:32] Kind of, kind of liked it.

[1:04:33] Don't recommend it.

Dan McCoy

[1:04:36] Like Elliot.

[1:04:41] Accurate.

[1:04:41] A lot of people feel that way about me.

[1:04:43] Be a wise guy.

[1:04:44] I hate Ray Wise for mayor.

[1:04:47] Hey, let's.

[1:04:48] Get on the K train, everybody.

[1:04:50] Not Ray Wise.

[1:04:51] Come on.

[1:04:53] Ketamine?

[1:04:54] Yeah, yeah.

S5

[1:05:00] Are you a five-star baddie?

[1:05:01] If you answered yes, then Black People Love Paramore is the podcast for you.

[1:05:05] Contrary to the title, we are not a podcast about the band Paramore.

[1:05:09] Black People Love Paramore is a pop culture show about the common and uncommon interests

[1:05:12] of Black people in order to help us feel a little bit more seen.

[1:05:17] We are your co-hosts, Sequoia Holmes.

[1:05:19] Jewel Vicker.

[1:05:20] And Ryan Graham.

[1:05:21] And in each episode, we dissect one pop culture topic that mainstream media doesn't associate

[1:05:25] with the Black people, but we know that we like.

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:28] We get into topics like ginger ale, the golden girls, Black romance, uno, and so much more.

S5

[1:05:34] Tune in every other Thursday to the podcast that's dedicated to helping Black people feel

S4

[1:05:37] more seen.

[1:05:38] Find Black People Love Paramore on MaximumFun.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

S6

[1:05:46] One thing we all have in common, we all have a mind.

S4

[1:05:50] It makes me so scared because I'm like, when is the bad thing going to happen?

S6

[1:05:54] And minds can be kind of unpredictable and eccentric.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:58] Everybody wants to hear that they're not alone.

[1:06:01] Everybody wants to hear that someone else has those same thoughts.

S6

[1:06:04] Depression Mode with John Moe is about how interesting minds intersect with the lives and work of the

[1:06:10] people who have them.

[1:06:11] Comedians, authors, experts, all sorts of folks trying to make sense of their world.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:16] It's not admitting something bad if you say, this is scary.

S6

[1:06:21] Depression Mode with John Moe.

[1:06:22] Every Monday at MaximumFun.org or wherever you get podcasts.

Dan McCoy

[1:06:30] This podcast is sponsored in part by Squarespace.

[1:06:35] That's right.

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[1:07:24] And when you are ready to launch, use offer code FLOP to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[1:07:33] Also, we've got a couple of jumbotrons.

[1:07:36] One is from CN Mortego.

[1:07:40] And they say,

[1:07:43] Do you love understated British humor?

[1:07:47] And that's humor with a U because it's British.

[1:07:50] How about novels that open with a smash cut to in media res?

[1:07:55] Then you might quite like Do Not Harm, colon, Terms and Conditions Apply by CN Mortego,

[1:08:03] a fast-paced satirical space opera that's equal parts Douglas Adams, Terry Pratchett, and Becky Chambers.

[1:08:11] As Daniel Craig might say, and I guess this is licensed to do one of our patented bad accents,

[1:08:17] You're only supposed to blow the bloody planet up.

[1:08:23] Now, that's out June 24th.

[1:08:26] Buy it now on Kindle.

[1:08:28] I mean, it was out June 24th.

[1:08:30] This is coming out later.

[1:08:31] So it's possible to buy it now.

[1:08:33] Out June 24th on Kindle.

[1:08:35] Buy it now.

[1:08:36] This is a second jumbotron.

[1:08:39] And this one is for Patrick and is from your family.

[1:08:43] Do you know who your family are?

[1:08:44] They are Annie, Ellie, Robert, and Doggy Cash.

[1:08:48] Happy 40th birthday.

[1:08:49] Hope you feel loved and celebrated on this special milestone.

[1:08:54] Here's to another 40 years of good coffee, great travel, and incredible memories.

[1:08:59] Thanks for being our detailed planner and always having our next show, song, or podcast episode ready to go.

[1:09:07] Live life like a 3-1 count.

[1:09:10] Galloway, baby, love to love you.

[1:09:14] That's very sweet.

[1:09:17] Thank you to our sponsors.

[1:09:19] Thank you to Jumbotron person, purchasers, personers, Jumbotron persons as well.

[1:09:25] If you'd like to get a Jumbotron, you can go to maximumfun.org slash Jumbotron and do so.

[1:09:32] But for right now, why don't we go back to the show?

[1:09:38] Hey, we get letters at the show.

[1:09:40] And before we get into some letters this week.

[1:09:43] Do we ever.

[1:09:44] I forgot who sent us the letters I read last time.

[1:09:50] I have learned since that it was Stephen and Greg of the last name withhelds.

Stuart Wellington

[1:09:55] Alex, just cut that out and add it to the last episode.

[1:09:58] Just shove that into the Garfield episode.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:00] Yeah.

[1:10:01] Just shove it up Garfield.

[1:10:03] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:10:04] That's the thing.

[1:10:05] I feel like I was possibly grading this movie on the Garfield curve, which is the curve of Garfield's round potty.

[1:10:10] But I just hated the Garfield movie so much that I was like, oh, this is a breath of fresh air.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:17] I would definitely rather watch this than the Garfield movie, which is the damn thing with the faintest of praise.

[1:10:23] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:10:25] So this first letter is from chat's last name withheld.

[1:10:29] Who writes, just listen to the Love Hurts episode.

[1:10:33] And the mention of David Cronenberg got me thinking.

[1:10:36] In an era, sorry, of so many remakes, many being gritty, what if we had more gutsy remakes?

[1:10:46] Gutsy in the Cronenberg sense.

[1:10:48] Uh-huh.

[1:10:48] Oh.

[1:10:48] Imagine, for example, Mrs. Dotfire, but the lead character takes the transformation into the titular British nanny to the extreme with backroom illicit cosmetic surgeries.

[1:10:58] Do you have any old favorites that might have it for me?

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:00] Sounds like a job for BF Skin Man.

[1:11:02] Get a grandma's skin and put it on Robin Williams.

[1:11:04] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:11:05] Do you have any old favorites that might benefit from a Cronenberg-esque gutsy remake?

[1:11:10] P.S.

[1:11:11] Regarding Goonies as a masturbation metaphor, the pirate's name was One-Eyed Willie.

[1:11:16] It's all right there.

[1:11:18] Wheels within wheels.

[1:11:19] Wow.

[1:11:19] Or wheels within willies.

[1:11:21] Yeah.

[1:11:23] Infinite wiener.

[1:11:24] Oh, boy.

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:25] Infinite wiener.

[1:11:26] Infinite wiener all the way down.

[1:11:26] That's what Bertrand Russell said, isn't it?

[1:11:28] That's just wieners all the way down.

[1:11:29] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:11:30] That's that bar in Bushwick, I think.

[1:11:33] Wieners all the way down.

[1:11:36] I went to their election night party.

[1:11:38] Oh, is it?

[1:11:39] They do little wiener races during the week.

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:42] I don't want to know what that is.

[1:11:44] So the movies that need some kind of body horror remake, is that what we're calling for?

[1:11:49] Yeah, that's the idea.

Dan McCoy

[1:11:50] That's the thinking.

Stuart Wellington

[1:11:52] Okay.

[1:11:52] So obviously, I'm going to reference one of Dan and my favorite movies, Junior, where Arnold Schwarzenegger gets pregnant.

[1:11:59] You can make that way gross.

[1:12:00] Never seen Junior.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:02] You've never seen Junior?

[1:12:03] I've never seen Junior.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:05] Oh, I saw it in the theaters when it came out, but I haven't seen it since then.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:08] Check out the cineast over here.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:10] Yeah, I don't want to brag, but I saw Junior during its original release.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:14] Yeah.

[1:12:15] 30 millimeter.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:16] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:17] It was a 70 millimeter roadshow, Josh.

[1:12:20] Yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:20] The intermission, assigned seating.

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:22] That's what Arnold Schwarzenegger was dilated to, 70 millimeters.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:26] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:28] I mean, I thought this was a pretty good premise for a question.

[1:12:31] It's a great question.

[1:12:33] Did you have an answer for it?

[1:12:34] No, I don't.

[1:12:34] I was vamping.

[1:12:37] Yeah, Santa Claus.

[1:12:38] When he gets bigger, it's way grosser.

S4

[1:12:41] I have a genre that I think could be body hard, because I think a movie, because you said old favorites,

[1:12:47] and I think if I love something, this is such an intense element that it might kind of tip the scales to like, oh, this doesn't match.

[1:12:55] So I think you got to take a movie that didn't quite work the first time and body horror it up.

[1:13:00] And I think something like Caden Leopold, which is a time travel rom-com with Hugh Jackman and Meg Ryan,

[1:13:08] where he has to invent the elevator.

[1:13:10] He has to go back in time to invent the elevator so they can't be together.

[1:13:13] And I think that time travel is ripe for body horror, almost in a The Fly sort of way.

[1:13:21] And I think we're kind of jazzing up this movie that felt like it could have used a little more zing.

Stuart Wellington

[1:13:27] Yeah.

[1:13:28] Hmm.

[1:13:29] Kate and Leopold.

[1:13:30] Gross version.

Dan McCoy

[1:13:31] So you're just like, you're just thinking of like, you know, rom-coms as the genre, or you're saying that stuff is the stuff.

[1:13:37] This specific movie.

[1:13:38] Oh, okay.

S4

[1:13:39] I like a rom-com as a genre, but I'm saying you take a movie that like didn't quite have enough oomph to it and you add the body horror rather than going like, oh, gosh, I loved Chinatown, but I wish that there were more body horror in it.

[1:13:52] I see.

S4

[1:13:52] Well, I feel like Pullman.

Dan McCoy

[1:13:53] So you're not arguing that Sleepless in Seattle should be about a man who literally can't sleep.

[1:13:57] And his eyes are bleeding and yeah.

[1:13:59] He finds love.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:01] Like, I mean, let's – Pullman is something that could use – if the thing that they were uncovering was more of a body horror scandal, you know.

[1:14:07] Oh.

[1:14:08] I was going to suggest Splash, but then I realized that the movie The Lure is already kind of a body horror version of Splash.

[1:14:14] It's like a horror version of The Little Mermaid.

[1:14:17] But I'm going to jump on – I'm also going to jump on the Arnold Schwarzenegger comedy train.

[1:14:22] The Arnold Schwarzenegger, Danny DeVito comedy train.

[1:14:24] I'm going to say twins could have a body horror element.

[1:14:25] They're literally the products of a genetic experiment on an island of scientists.

[1:14:31] There's no reason that the twins halfway through – like once they're in the same place together, maybe their bodies are like reacting to each other in strange ways.

[1:14:38] Just because they're the opposing kind of polarize tabs.

[1:14:40] That's interesting.

[1:14:41] Alpha and Omega, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:14:42] I was going to say that Danny DeVito as the twin that in the movie, like the joke is like, oh, he got all the bad stuff.

[1:14:51] He's trying to crawl back inside Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:55] Or he's going to try to surgically take some of the good stuff and give it to him.

[1:15:00] Yeah, exactly.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:01] I'm so glad you bring this up, LA because I was just re-watching Twins the other day and it was great.

[1:15:05] And I was really thinking that as a kid, I think the reason why I loved it so much is that Arnold Schwarzenegger's character in that movie is just like a giant super kid.

[1:15:14] Yes.

[1:15:15] He's like kind of dumb.

[1:15:16] Everything's very new to him.

[1:15:17] He sees everything on a very service level, but he is like hyper smart and the strongest human in the universe.

[1:15:23] So like he can deal with problems very easily if he needs to.

[1:15:26] But at the end of the day, he's still just like kind of a goofy, like innocent child, right?

[1:15:31] Yes.

[1:15:31] Which is why kids loved it.

[1:15:32] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:33] All right.

[1:15:33] We got one more letter here.

[1:15:34] This is from Anna, last name withheld, who writes.

[1:15:37] Anna Kendrick.

[1:15:38] Okay.

[1:15:38] Go with me on this one because I know it's an odd message.

[1:15:41] I was recently listening to your Money Plane episode.

[1:15:44] And when I got to Elliot's phone call with Mark Summers, I suddenly had a thought.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:48] I have no memory of this bit.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:51] Also, I met Anna Kendrick this week.

[1:15:52] I'm going to have to listen to that episode.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:53] Oh.

[1:15:53] Oh, really?

[1:15:54] What?

Dan McCoy

[1:15:54] Was she a scrappy little nobody?

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:56] Yeah.

[1:15:57] She was on Wait Wait.

[1:15:57] She was really good.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:58] You're asking her a simple favor.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:01] When you said she was going to be on Flophouse, was she like, oh, I just sent them a letter.

[1:16:03] I hope they read it on the podcast.

[1:16:05] She's like, but I hope they don't say my name because I would be so embarrassed.

Dan McCoy

[1:16:09] Oh, no.

[1:16:10] Sorry, Anna.

[1:16:12] Anyway, to go back, I got to Elliot's phone call with Mark Summers.

[1:16:16] Yeah, I don't know what that's about either.

[1:16:18] You're going to have to listen to the episode again, yeah.

[1:16:19] I suddenly had a thought.

[1:16:21] I started laughing about the idea of Elliot's wife asking him to role play.

[1:16:26] I can't imagine they would actually ever get to sex, but it has to be fascinating.

[1:16:30] This is why Anna Kendrick was embarrassed.

[1:16:32] Yeah.

[1:16:33] Not that she's embarrassed to get listening.

[1:16:34] As a preemptive answer to any follow-ups, this was just an amusing thought.

[1:16:38] Of all the floppers, my fantasies do not actually involve Elliot on a completely unrelated note.

[1:16:42] Hi, Stuart.

[1:16:43] Well, that's unnecessary.

[1:16:46] I like to role play too, baby.

[1:16:48] I'm an orc.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:50] Okay, bros.

[1:16:50] I just feel like I'm being betrayed a lot in this episode.

[1:16:54] It's either Stuart or Ray Wise, but Elliot is no one's first choice.

Stuart Wellington

[1:16:58] Yeah, yeah.

[1:16:59] Ray Wise is holding the dagger, but Stuart's distracting Elliot.

Dan McCoy

[1:17:01] I mean, but as a theatrical experience, it sounds like your role-playing is the preferred.

[1:17:06] Sure, yeah.

[1:17:07] Just as a one-man show.

[1:17:09] Yeah, because I really get into it.

[1:17:10] Yeah.

[1:17:11] I get into the character.

[1:17:14] Yeah, I just thought that was a funny one.

[1:17:16] There's not really much to address there.

[1:17:18] We could talk about Anna Kendrick a little bit.

S4

[1:17:21] She was very nice.

[1:17:23] Yeah.

[1:17:23] I got to watch for five minutes.

[1:17:26] I walked down to walk over to the theater for the Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me taping,

[1:17:31] and I walked into Paula Poundstone and goes,

[1:17:33] Josh, you gotta help me, man.

[1:17:34] I know who that, I know her name is Anna Kendrick, but where do I know her from?

[1:17:40] And Anna Kendrick is like, she already made me name many of the movies I've been in, and it was none of them.

[1:17:46] She was like, pitch perfect.

[1:17:47] Paula's like, never seen it.

[1:17:48] Heard of it?

[1:17:51] It was pretty good.

[1:17:53] It was Twilight.

[1:17:54] That impression is offensive, I shouldn't mean.

[1:17:58] It was Twilight?

[1:17:59] It was Twilight.

Stuart Wellington

[1:18:00] Can you judge up Josh's impression so it's not less offensive?

[1:18:04] No.

Dan McCoy

[1:18:05] I just had, I mean, the idea of Paula Poundstone, like the thing that she'd seen was Twilight.

[1:18:09] It was so funny.

S4

[1:18:10] Just an incredible blow to that story.

[1:18:13] And it was because she had a teenage daughter who was really into Twilight.

[1:18:16] Makes sense.

[1:18:17] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:18:17] Check that out.

[1:18:17] Just a really incredible moment.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:21] This is the part of the movie.

[1:18:23] The funniest, the best part of me to that story was when it turned out that Anna Kendrick was there for the conversation between you and Paula Poundstone.

[1:18:30] Oh, yeah.

[1:18:30] I was like, oh, she was standing right there.

S4

[1:18:32] I walked into a conversation that they were having.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:35] About who she is.

[1:18:36] Yes.

S4

[1:18:37] And why Paula Poundstone didn't know who she was.

[1:18:39] I know who that is.

[1:18:40] Like, she's, they were talking and I interrupted.

[1:18:44] And Anna Kendrick is going like, she's like, I just want you to know I wasn't naming movies just like out of my own.

[1:18:50] She asked me to.

[1:18:51] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:18:53] That is so funny.

[1:18:54] Pitch perfect.

[1:18:54] She doesn't just go around telling people like, hey, you might know me from these movies.

[1:18:58] I'm Anna.

[1:18:58] It was so funny.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:00] She's not, she's not a Troy McClure.

[1:19:02] Yeah.

[1:19:03] Yeah.

[1:19:03] Yep.

[1:19:03] I'm Anna Kendrick.

[1:19:04] You may know me from such movies as Pitch Perfect, Pitch Perfect 2, and Pitch Perfect 3.

Dan McCoy

[1:19:10] Speaking of actors to directors, I like that movie that she made.

[1:19:14] I haven't seen it yet.

[1:19:14] Which one?

[1:19:15] Which one?

Stuart Wellington

[1:19:16] I can't remember the, Woman of the Year.

[1:19:19] The Substance?

[1:19:20] Or something like that.

Dan McCoy

[1:19:22] Substance.

[1:19:22] I mean, Woman of the Year is an old movie, but I think they might have reused the title.

[1:19:26] I don't know.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:27] It was about, it was about the.

[1:19:29] Woman of the Hour.

Dan McCoy

[1:19:30] Woman of the Hour.

[1:19:31] Yeah.

[1:19:33] It was, it was.

[1:19:33] It was just real.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:34] It's a real come down from Woman of the Year.

[1:19:36] Yeah.

[1:19:37] You're going to build your way up.

[1:19:38] Maybe there's a prequel.

[1:19:40] Ever wonder how she became the Woman of the Year where she didn't start there?

[1:19:43] One hour at a time.

Dan McCoy

[1:19:47] So, this is the part of the podcast where we do recommendations.

[1:19:51] Movies that might be, you know, more of a lock on a good time than Pool Man.

[1:20:00] I'd like to recommend a movie that I watched because I know that Griffin Newman was really promoting this one.

[1:20:07] It's called I Like Movies.

[1:20:09] It was from 2022.

[1:20:11] It's like, it's a very small little sort of coming of age comedy about a difficult high school kid who, you might be able to sympathize with this, people in this cohort, who likes movies, who's really obsessed with movies.

[1:20:30] Ends the title.

[1:21:00] And he's slowly learning over the course of the movie to, you know, sort of look outside himself.

[1:21:04] And it's small and sweet and funny.

[1:21:08] And it felt like a movie that, you know, like I'd been watching for decades.

[1:21:15] And like it was like, you know, slipping into an old favorite to watch it.

[1:21:19] So, I like movies is what it's called.

Stuart Wellington

[1:21:22] I really enjoyed it.

[1:21:23] I'm going to recommend a new release.

[1:21:25] One that I saw in the theater with Dan McCoy.

[1:21:29] Ooh.

[1:21:31] Earlier this week, we went and saw 28 years later.

[1:21:35] You might have seen the social media video of the Flophouse mini-mini episode that we recorded.

[1:21:40] Probably not.

[1:21:41] Maybe not.

[1:21:41] It's on the Flophouse Instagram and my TikTok.

[1:21:44] So, I've always had, I guess, respect for this franchise.

[1:21:51] I thought, you know, the first one is a huge deal.

[1:21:54] It certainly popularized the concept of super fast zombie equivalents.

[1:21:59] And it also, like, was super intense.

[1:22:02] And it made stars of a number of people, including my man, Brendan Gleeson.

[1:22:08] But, and then the second one, I think, is, you know, a little bit more intense and more specifically a horror movie.

[1:22:15] Like, I feel like the second one has an incredible opening.

[1:22:18] And then, you know, kind of devolves.

[1:22:19] But it's still solid.

[1:22:20] And it's a solid horror movie.

[1:22:22] And this third one is, like, a weird horror fantasy post-apocalyptic adventure that is a lot more introspective and somber in tone.

[1:22:32] It's very, like, it's kind of a meditation on death.

[1:22:36] And it has, and just like a, it has some incredible performances.

[1:22:40] Jodie Comer's great.

[1:22:41] And Rafe Fenns is incredible.

[1:22:44] And when he shows up, you're like, oh, my God, I can't believe this movie was sitting on this guy for so long.

[1:22:49] And then it also has an incredibly wacky ending that is amazing.

[1:22:56] So, 28 years later, easily my favorite of the franchise.

[1:22:59] And I feel like, similar to, like, what is it, Sunshine, the other, the Danny Boyle movie, I think it'll grow in estimation over time.

[1:23:08] I think it's really great.

[1:23:09] I also want to point out, Dan, you, a couple episodes ago, you recommended Summer of 69.

[1:23:17] And Charlene and I watched it.

[1:23:18] And it was very cute and funny.

[1:23:19] And that was a good recommendation.

[1:23:20] Good one.

Dan McCoy

[1:23:21] Thank you for the validation.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:24] I have been so busy lately that I've not really had a chance to watch many movies, which has been disappointing to me.

[1:23:31] But so I'm going to recommend off of the, off of today's being, Pool Man being such an L.A. movie, I'm going to recommend a trio of L.A. movies that I feel are better than Pool Man.

[1:23:43] I don't think anyone would.

[1:23:44] L.A. story is the first one.

[1:23:46] L.A. confidential.

[1:23:48] L.A. L.A. land.

[1:23:50] It's a musical that.

Dan McCoy

[1:23:52] You're the one person who calls it L.A. L.A. land.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:55] You guys seen that movie, L.A. L.A. land?

[1:23:58] You heard of jazz?

Dan McCoy

[1:24:01] Do you know about this?

[1:24:04] It's like music, but it goes everywhere.

S4

[1:24:06] It just does what it wants.

[1:24:08] My upstairs neighbor has a piano, and the number one song that they have played for five years running is City of Stars.

Stuart Wellington

[1:24:16] No, I have my fingers crossed it was going to be that Linkin Park song.

[1:24:24] That one?

[1:24:25] Oh, man, I'm getting choked up, Josh.

Elliott Kalan

[1:24:27] So I'm going to recommend three great movies set in L.A.

[1:24:30] They all have kind of like, not, two have mystery elements, and one is more of a, and the other one is a weirdo dealing with things in L.A. movie, much like Pool Man is.

[1:24:40] So the weirdo dealing with things in L.A. movie is Nightcrawler.

[1:24:43] We've probably all seen it already with Jake Gyllenhaal.

[1:24:45] What a movie.

[1:24:47] It's about – it's the – I feel like it's the taxi driver network of its day, all about how people are gross and institutions are corruptible.

[1:25:00] I'm going to mention Devil in a Blue Dress, which I recommended before on the podcast, which is a great L.A. period mystery thriller.

[1:25:07] And I'm going to mention perhaps the greatest of all L.A. mysteries where you never quite know exactly what's going on, but it is a strength of it.

[1:25:18] And that is Mulholland Drive by the late lamented master David Lynch, which is – that's a movie where I feel like it captures so well the undercurrent of what it feels like to be in Los Angeles.

[1:25:28] Because Los Angeles often – people will – New Yorkers especially, at least in the past, they would be like, L.A., there's no substance there.

[1:25:35] Like there's no nothing there, which ignores the fact that L.A. is a real city with real people in it.

[1:25:39] It's not just entertainment industry types.

[1:25:41] Like it's – there's actual people who have actual jobs and live actual lives.

[1:25:44] So not just Randy Newman songs.

[1:25:45] Yes, exactly.

[1:25:46] Or the third actor.

Dan McCoy

[1:25:46] L.A., your job is an actual – L.A., your job is an actual job.

[1:25:50] Thank you.

[1:25:51] I appreciate that.

Elliott Kalan

[1:25:51] I appreciate that, Dan.

[1:25:52] It certainly takes enough of my time.

[1:25:54] Being a dad, it's the hardest job you'll ever love.

[1:25:56] It's the hardest job there is other than being a mom, which is a harder job.

[1:26:00] But then – but there is a feeling I think because the sun is so bright in L.A.

[1:26:04] There's this feeling of like – there is a feeling of unreality that underlies kind of everything.

[1:26:09] And Mulholland Drive captures that so well.

[1:26:11] So those are three L.A. movies that I'm going to recommend after watching this L.A. movie.

[1:26:16] And Josh, do you have a recommendation that you like to make?

[1:26:18] L.A. it?

Elliott Kalan

[1:26:18] Kaelin.

[1:26:18] This is L.A. it?

[1:26:19] Kaelin.

[1:26:20] Here's my L.A. movie watch list.

S4

[1:26:22] I just remembered another great guy meets a bunch of weirdos movies.

[1:26:28] Les Schlob.

[1:26:28] But Bringing Out the Dead, the Scorsese movie where Nick Cage plays the ambulance driver.

[1:26:34] And like After Hours is kind of in that vein too.

[1:26:37] Yeah, yeah.

[1:26:39] But so I get to look at Sean and I'm like –

[1:26:41] New York, baby.

[1:26:41] Yeah.

[1:26:42] And I'm really recommending three New York movies.

[1:26:45] Pizza, the movie.

[1:26:47] Movies that will have you say, hey, I'm watching movies here.

[1:26:50] I'm watching over here.

[1:26:52] I want to recommend – it's like on the horizon.

[1:26:57] I got to see my good buddy Aaron Judge co-wrote a zombie movie also, Stuart, called Queens of the Dead.

[1:27:04] She co-wrote it with Tina Romero, who's George Romero's daughter.

[1:27:07] Oh, yeah.

[1:27:07] I was just reading about that the other day.

[1:27:09] Yeah.

[1:27:09] It's really, really fun.

[1:27:10] It's a drag queen zombie movie.

[1:27:12] And I got to see it at Tribeca where it's screened during Pride in New York.

[1:27:17] And so it was just this like super hyped up, super queer audience that was just like, yeah, drag queen zombies.

[1:27:24] And it ruled.

[1:27:25] It was so much fun to see in a theater.

[1:27:27] And I think they're still figuring out like when it's going wider and how.

[1:27:32] But I like – keep your eyes peeled for it.

[1:27:34] It's a blast.

Stuart Wellington

[1:27:36] Hey, a bunch of L.A. movies recommended.

Elliott Kalan

[1:27:39] L.A. movies.

[1:27:41] L.A. movies.

[1:27:42] I love L.A. movies.

[1:27:44] Movies.

Dan McCoy

[1:27:47] Josh, thank you so much for being here.

[1:27:49] Now is the time where you plug your shit again.

[1:27:54] I say shit only to mean stuff.

[1:27:57] I'm sure it's wonderful.

Elliott Kalan

[1:27:58] No, but the tone you set it in really implied stuff.

[1:28:02] It was a positive tone, yeah.

S4

[1:28:04] I have a new stand-up special that's out now.

[1:28:08] It's on YouTube on Blonde Medicine's YouTube channel.

[1:28:10] It's called Positive Reinforcement.

[1:28:13] It's really fun.

[1:28:15] You know, we shot it about a year ago.

[1:28:17] It's the culmination of a bunch of touring that I did.

[1:28:19] It's like very fun and friendly.

[1:28:21] And I hope people watch it and laugh and go, ah, it made me feel nice.

[1:28:26] And my wife's new book is out now.

[1:28:30] By the time this is out, it's called I Want to Burn This Place Down.

[1:28:32] It's essays.

[1:28:33] That one, much more financial, our household's financial situation,

[1:28:36] is much more contingent on you finding and enjoying that piece of art

[1:28:39] rather than my comedy special, which you can watch for free at any time.

[1:28:42] And then subscribe to my newsletter to find out about my live dates.

[1:28:45] That's marvelous.

[1:28:47] A big Lebowski reference in its own right.

[1:28:50] JoshGondelman.substack.com.

Dan McCoy

[1:28:52] That's too much plug.

Elliott Kalan

[1:28:53] No, keep plugging.

Dan McCoy

[1:28:54] Keep plugging, yeah.

[1:28:55] Stuff that has no effect on Josh's financial situation.

[1:28:58] He was nice enough to do a couple lines for the Flyscraper bonus content.

[1:29:01] Oh, yeah.

[1:29:02] Still putting together.

[1:29:03] And it was very funny, especially because I asked him to improvise him talking to a dog for a while.

[1:29:10] And it's funnier than anything I wrote.

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:12] If you thought Pool Man had Chris Pine bringing in his famous friends, just wait for Flyscraper.

[1:29:18] If you're a MaxFun member, you'll be able to hear Flyscraper, Dan McCoy's original –

[1:29:22] Something.

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:23] Original – I know.

[1:29:24] I still have to record my lines for it.

[1:29:26] Dan McCoy's original spec sitcom.

[1:29:29] Not sitcom.

[1:29:30] I guess parody – well, I don't know what you'd call it.

[1:29:32] I don't know.

[1:29:32] And it's going to have all of Dan's famous friends in it.

[1:29:34] Yeah.

[1:29:35] Mel Gibson.

[1:29:36] It's kind of your –

S4

[1:29:37] It's kind of your metropolis in its gestation period.

[1:29:43] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:29:45] No, I'll have it done before the next drive.

[1:29:47] I promise.

[1:29:48] But, again, thank you, Josh, for being here.

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:52] All of Dan's famous friends are going to be in it.

[1:29:54] Harvey Weinstein.

[1:29:55] Jerry Epstein.

Dan McCoy

[1:29:56] Everyone who's endorsed Andrew Cuomo for Mayer.

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:59] Yeah, Andrew Cuomo.

[1:30:01] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:30:01] Eric Adams.

[1:30:02] I was going to make a joke about that with Dan, but I thought he'd get upset.

[1:30:07] I'm glad Josh did it.

Dan McCoy

[1:30:11] Yeah.

[1:30:12] Check out Josh's special –

Elliott Kalan

[1:30:13] Josh, nicest man in comedy compliment.

Dan McCoy

[1:30:15] Still going after Dan McCoy.

[1:30:16] Check out Maris' book.

[1:30:19] And also, I'll take this time to say thank you to our network, Maximum Fun.

[1:30:24] Go over to MaximumFun.org to check out all the other great podcasts on that network, our network.

[1:30:32] And thank you to Alex Smith, our producer, who goes by the name Howell Dottie, all over the internet.

[1:30:39] Speaking of bonus content stuff, we just put up the second Slop Tales episode on the member bonus feed.

[1:30:46] And Alex does so much work for those things, doing original music and sound design for that.

[1:30:54] And he does a great job.

[1:30:56] So if you're a member, check that out.

[1:30:59] But for this episode of the Flop House, I've been Dan McCoy.

[1:31:01] And I've been Stuart Wellington.

[1:31:03] I've been L.A. it Kalen.

[1:31:05] And with us is Has-Been.

[1:31:10] I am a Has-Been.

[1:31:11] Josh Gondelman.

[1:31:13] No, you've got a new special out.

[1:31:15] You're one of the most.

[1:31:17] I was pointing at him just to cue him, and it really did look like I was like, Has-Been.

[1:31:22] I missed the old ways, and I'm Josh Gondelman.

[1:31:27] All right.

[1:31:28] Bye.

[1:31:29] Bye.

[1:31:35] Bye.

[1:31:38] Okay.

[1:31:39] I heard Talia had another hot one.

Elliott Kalan

[1:31:41] Let's hear the other hot one.

[1:31:41] Oh, it's a smoker.

[1:31:42] That was the hot one.

[1:31:43] Let's hear this next hot one.

Dan McCoy

[1:31:45] On this episode, we discuss Pool Man.

[1:31:49] Him the Pool Man Paler.

[1:31:53] Man, it's a hot one.

[1:31:55] It is a hot one.

[1:31:56] That was the hottest of ones.

[1:31:57] I doubted you, but.

[1:32:00] Those are two sterling hot ones, yeah.

[1:32:03] Okay.

[1:32:05] Well, let's go.

[1:32:06] Let's do the show.

[1:32:06] Yeah, you didn't want to hear mine.

[1:32:08] Do you?

[1:32:09] Do you want to do it?

[1:32:10] Let me just get it out of my system.

[1:32:11] Let me get it out of the system.

[1:32:12] We won't use it.

[1:32:13] On this episode, we discuss Pool Man.

[1:32:16] The Supreme Court can go fuck itself.

[1:32:23] Maximum Fun.

[1:32:24] A worker-owned network.

S4

[1:32:25] Of artist-owned shows.

[1:32:27] Supported.

[1:32:28] Directly.

[1:32:29] By you.

Ep.#455 - Poolman, with Josh Gondelman

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