Ep. #282 - Castle Freak

Dan McCoy

[0:00] On this episode, we discuss Castle Freak.

[0:03] Wait, for real?

[0:30] Hey, everyone, and welcome to the Flophouse.

[0:34] I'm Dan McCoy.

[0:35] Oh, man, I'm Stuart Willington.

Elliott Kalan

[0:37] I'm Elliot Kalin, everybody's favorite child trapped in an adult's body.

Dan McCoy

[0:42] And we've got a guest tonight.

[0:43] Why don't you introduce yourself?

S3

[0:45] Joe Bob Briggs.

[0:47] Oh, wow, a celebrity.

[0:50] This is amazing.

[0:52] This is awesome.

[0:53] What have I signed up for here?

[0:56] Oh, man, you don't even know.

[0:57] This is already menacing.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00] I think the fact that you are in a lonely man's house where a cat is prowling,

[1:06] and also that he made you introduce yourself rather than introducing our amazing special guest

[1:11] that deserves a buildup and things like that.

S3

[1:14] Yes, and a part of Brooklyn that I would have to fight my way out of, like the Warriors.

Dan McCoy

[1:19] Yeah, oh, sure.

[1:20] Yeah, he arrived in a car, and I could see him struggling for his face not to fall

[1:26] as he realized he was just walking into some dude's apartment.

Stuart Wellington

[1:30] Yep.

[1:30] Yeah.

[1:30] Not some kind of fancy studio.

Elliott Kalan

[1:34] Yeah.

[1:34] And in a part of the city that he thought had been turned into a maximum security prison long ago.

Dan McCoy

[1:42] Yeah.

[1:42] Come on, Stuart.

[1:44] So this is a movie that...

[1:46] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[1:47] Wait, can we like build up our guest?

[1:49] Oh, yeah, sure.

[1:50] Hold on.

[1:51] That's a...

[1:51] Come on.

Dan McCoy

[1:52] That's an important thing, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:54] This is someone whose work has meant a lot to me in growing up.

[1:58] I was a real devout Monster Vision watcher back when it was on,

[2:03] and, you know, reader of your columns and your reviews,

[2:07] and just like, it's very exciting to me to have you on the show.

[2:09] I'm just super excited about it,

[2:10] which is why this is the first time I regret leaving New York City

[2:13] and having to do the podcast via Skype from Los Angeles.

S3

[2:17] All right.

[2:17] Well, I appreciate that.

[2:19] It's amazing how many people remember that Monster Vision show

[2:23] because it was on at no particular time in the middle of the night,

[2:29] and we just kind of like continued, you know,

[2:34] I guess the rules of TV were different in those days.

[2:36] Yeah.

[2:36] And as long as we were finished by 6 a.m.,

[2:39] they didn't care what we did.

[2:40] And so sometimes the show ended at 4.30.

[2:44] Sometimes it ended at 2.

[2:46] You know, we just talked until we were done.

[2:49] Sort of like your show.

Dan McCoy

[2:50] Yeah.

[2:51] Oh, yeah.

[2:52] Now you're getting it.

[2:53] That was actually kind of my favorite era of like television

[2:58] when cable first was kind of around.

[2:59] And they were like, okay, we've got all these channels.

[3:02] We're not quite sure how to fill the time.

[3:04] So I don't know.

[3:05] Comedy channel.

[3:07] I'm just going to put a bunch of clips of random stuff on the air.

[3:09] USA.

[3:10] I'm going to put T&A movies on late at night.

[3:13] It's just like let's fill the time however we possibly can.

[3:16] And that was so much fun.

Stuart Wellington

[3:19] That was the era when you could take a videotape

[3:22] and insert it into a weird opening in your stomach, right?

Elliott Kalan

[3:27] For maybe like one person.

[3:29] Okay, cool.

Dan McCoy

[3:32] Yeah, no, it's –

[3:33] I'm sorry.

[3:33] I'm sorry I didn't give more of a buildup.

[3:35] I'm so flustered by having an actual guest of note that I don't know how –

[3:40] You don't go out often, do you?

[3:41] No, I don't.

Stuart Wellington

[3:43] Dan does better not in person.

[3:47] I think –

[3:47] That's true.

[3:48] But you also don't do that great on Twitter.

[3:50] So I don't know what's your –

[3:52] I don't understand what this dragging me about Twitter is.

Elliott Kalan

[3:55] Dan's a real –

[3:56] Dan's a real –

[3:56] His best stuff is via telegram.

[3:58] Like his best face is really via telegram because it's limited letters, but it also costs money.

[4:05] So he can't waste it on the kinds of jokes he does on Twitter for free.

[4:08] Yep.

Dan McCoy

[4:10] I don't know.

Elliott Kalan

[4:10] This is turning into like our roast of Dan's Twitter feed, which lately has just been particularly prolific and of questionable quality.

Dan McCoy

[4:18] Yeah.

[4:18] I don't know what's –

Stuart Wellington

[4:19] So before we get into what this – what we actually do on this podcast, which is talk about a specific movie that we watched.

[4:29] What – yeah, so let's talk a little bit about why we chose Castle Freak, the movie that we're reviewing today.

[4:37] I know why I would want to watch it because we recommend movies on this podcast.

[4:44] And out of the – we've done what, like 290 episodes, something like that, Dan?

[4:48] A little less, but you're around.

[4:50] I feel like I've recommended it 290 times.

[4:53] Okay.

S3

[4:55] Well, I'm with you.

[4:56] I've always thought it was underappreciated.

[5:00] Yeah.

[5:00] And of the three big Jeffrey Combs, Barbara Crampton, directed by Stuart Gordon movies.

[5:09] Yep.

[5:09] Which would be Reanimator, From Beyond, and Castle Freak.

[5:15] Uh-huh.

[5:15] It's probably the least well-known.

[5:17] There are people who love those other two movies and then have never seen Castle Freak.

Stuart Wellington

[5:21] But Castle Freak, is that the only one that didn't get a theatrical release?

[5:26] I believe that.

[5:27] I think it got a minor theatrical release, at least.

Dan McCoy

[5:30] I think not in the U.S.

[5:31] I'm pretty sure that's true.

[5:33] I'll look it up while you guys chat.

S3

[5:34] Okay.

[5:35] Well, I think the reason that it's not as beloved as the other two is that it's hardcore, nasty horror with no comic relief.

Elliott Kalan

[5:43] It's so much rougher than the other movies.

[5:45] From Beyond is a movie where Jeffrey Combs eats a man's eyeball out of his head like this.

[5:50] And this is still somehow much rougher.

[5:52] But with humor.

[5:53] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[5:54] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[5:54] With you, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[5:55] From Beyond is such a silly movie in a great way.

Elliott Kalan

[6:01] Just because a man gets skeletonized by a cloud of bees?

Dan McCoy

[6:05] Yeah, it was directed video by Full Moon Home Video on 97.

[6:11] 97.

[6:12] 97.

S3

[6:13] Okay.

[6:13] I thought it was 95.

[6:14] 95.

[6:15] I guess they have trouble.

[6:15] Well, it's weird.

Dan McCoy

[6:16] Wikipedia has conflicting information.

[6:19] Earlier it says 95 and then it says 97.

[6:21] Who would have thought that Wikipedia was not a reliable, I can't talk, reliable source.

Stuart Wellington

[6:27] Maybe 95 was when it debuted at Cannes.

Dan McCoy

[6:32] Yeah.

[6:33] I want the palm door.

S3

[6:34] Well, it is the kind of movie, these movies were starting to not get theatrical releases at all in the 90s.

[6:41] Whereas, you know, the other two movies were 85 and 86 when everything came out theatrically.

[6:48] Well, not everything.

Stuart Wellington

[6:49] Yeah.

[6:50] I was really lucky a couple years ago to get to host a screening of Castle Freak at the Alamo Drafthouse up in Yonkers.

[6:57] And they brought Jonathan Fuller, the actor who plays Gio the Freak.

[7:03] He is the Castle Freak.

[7:04] Yeah.

[7:04] And he was the nicest guy in the world.

[7:07] And he had all these great stories about running around in Charles Band's castle that he owned and how they had to like, they had a limited window to use the producer's castle before they use it for another one of his movies.

[7:21] And also just like stories of wearing full body prosthetics.

[7:26] And also he clarified a couple important points for me, which we'll get to, I'm sure.

S3

[7:31] But can I, is it too premature to talk about the movie?

[7:34] No, no, no.

[7:35] Jonathan Fuller, talk about full body prosthetics.

[7:39] Usually when you put on the full body prosthetics, that's it.

[7:42] That's the whole role.

[7:43] You know, you walk around in the full body prosthetics.

[7:45] Yeah.

[7:45] You know, he actually does acting in the full body prosthetics.

[7:50] It's a fully realized part.

[7:54] Yeah.

[7:54] It's amazing.

Stuart Wellington

[7:55] Just the physicality he brings to that role with his, like, from the way he walks to the way he holds his body to the weird, like, mumble sounds he makes, which I don't know if that was all ADR'd or not.

[8:06] The drool.

S3

[8:06] The drool.

[8:07] Yeah.

[8:08] There's more drool in this movie than any movie I've ever seen.

Stuart Wellington

[8:11] Yeah.

[8:11] The costumer was like, time to add some drool.

[8:14] He's like, nope, I'll make it myself.

Dan McCoy

[8:17] Stuart Gordon was like, there's not enough goo in this movie, so let's add some drool.

Elliott Kalan

[8:21] Well, it is.

[8:22] That's interesting you say that, Dan, because of those three Combs-Crampton movies that you mentioned, they're all Lovecraft stories, but this is the one that's least like what we think of as a Lovecraft story.

[8:33] The other two are very, like, mad scientist and monster stories, and this is, like, more gothic, and I wonder if that's part of it, that it's like there's not as much opportunity for goo in it.

S3

[8:42] Well, and part of it is that it's not really a Lovecraft story.

Elliott Kalan

[8:47] It's like so lucid.

[8:48] It's the same way that, like, they do those old Edgar Allan Poe movies in the 30s, where they're like, it's based on the black cat.

[8:54] Well, how is it based on the black cat?

[8:56] Well, there's a cat in it.

[8:57] Okay.

S3

[8:58] Well, and that's how this one happened.

[8:59] Charles Band had a poster.

[9:02] He made a poster.

[9:03] And he showed it to Stuart Gordon, and he says, the name of the movie is Castle Freak.

[9:08] And Stuart Gordon said, what's the story?

[9:09] And he says, I don't know what the story is, but it has a castle and it has a freak.

Stuart Wellington

[9:14] Well, I've already gotten a pre-order from one S. Wellington for a movie ticket.

S3

[9:22] Stuart Gordon found the only H.P. Lovecraft story that could be possibly used for that, which was told from the point of view of the freak.

[9:35] I mean, it's a story about a guy who's been imprisoned from birth.

[9:43] And has never been outside.

[9:45] And then he gets outside and he terrifies himself when he looks in the mirror.

[9:50] And so that's basically it.

[9:51] That's the whole story.

Elliott Kalan

[9:54] It's like Lovecraft was reading Plato's Parable of the Cave.

[10:00] Yes, in Lovecraft form.

[10:02] He needs a monster.

S3

[10:06] And then they added the whole family plot.

[10:09] Well, I guess we're going to go over the plot, right?

[10:11] Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

[10:12] The rest of it was...

Stuart Wellington

[10:14] Yeah, I don't think there was probably a drunk driving dad sequence in the Lovecraft story, but we'll find out.

Dan McCoy

[10:20] Well, before we get into the movie, I feel like we've done our guest of the service.

[10:26] We'll plug again.

[10:27] Multiple times, sure.

[10:28] We'll plug again later.

Elliott Kalan

[10:31] We'll plug again.

[10:32] Yeah, we should talk about what the guest is here to...

Dan McCoy

[10:34] We'll plug again later.

[10:35] But Joe Bob showed this movie on Shudder.

[10:38] And the fact that he's on Shudder showing movies is the reason that we've tricked him into coming to my apartment.

[10:43] So we should just advertise Shudder and his involvement thereof.

[10:49] Yeah, wait, right now or later?

[10:50] I mean, just now.

[10:51] I'm just mentioning it now, and then we can...

S3

[10:53] We actually showed it on the very first week of the series because I was a fan...

[10:58] And just plug the name of the series, sir.

[11:01] It's called The Last Drive-In on Shudder.

[11:03] I don't care if we plug it or not.

[11:05] But the first...

Elliott Kalan

[11:07] You just hope you get out of this alive.

[11:09] Yeah.

[11:09] That's all that matters.

S3

[11:10] No, the first week they wanted to show Shud.

[11:13] And I hate Shud.

[11:14] Yeah.

[11:15] So we did show Shud as the first movie.

[11:19] And I said, we got to redeem ourselves with something for the second movie.

[11:22] You know, they like movies that are not, you know, extremely well-known.

[11:25] Yeah.

[11:26] Daniel Stern just unsubscribed from our podcast.

Elliott Kalan

[11:31] Now I need to find out why...

[11:32] I mean, Shud is not great.

[11:33] Why do you hate Shud so much?

[11:34] And what are your feelings on Shud, too?

[11:36] You know, the only kind of...

S3

[11:37] The only...

[11:38] Well, the only...

[11:38] Well...

[11:39] Oh, come on.

[11:40] Please.

[11:41] You know, but the only movies that I really despise are movies where the people who make

[11:47] the movie seem to be superior to the movie.

[11:51] Yeah.

[11:51] Oh, yeah.

[11:51] And Shud is the ultimate Shakespeare in the park people slumming in the horror world.

[11:59] You know, it's...

[12:00] You know, remember the homeless woman who goes down in the tunnel at the very beginning?

[12:05] Yep.

[12:05] That's Norman Mailer's wife, okay?

[12:07] You know, if Norman Mailer's wife is in the movie, you know, it's not made by normal people.

Stuart Wellington

[12:14] No, that's actually like...

[12:15] Yeah, there's a certain amount of like contempt for the audience, I guess.

[12:19] Or is it contempt for the material?

S3

[12:20] I mean, it was conceived at a Soho party, you know, and the idea...

[12:25] They came up with the cannibalistic humanoid underground dwellers.

[12:30] Uh-huh.

[12:30] Which stands...

[12:30] They came up with the acronym.

[12:32] Which stands...

[12:32] Chud.

[12:32] And developed the whole movie around that idea.

[12:36] But, you know, even if you like the movie, it's like, where are the chuds?

[12:41] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[12:41] Where are the chuds?

[12:42] Barely in it.

[12:43] There's not a lot of chuds.

S3

[12:43] How much chud action is in that movie?

[12:46] Yeah.

[12:47] 30 seconds of glowing yellow eyes that look like they're on a, you know, a toy.

[12:53] Uh-huh.

Stuart Wellington

[12:55] For the first time in horror history, the poster promised something it did not deliver.

S3

[13:01] Remember when the chuds eat John Goodman in the diner?

[13:05] You don't even see the chuds.

[13:07] I think you see a quick hand of a chud or something coming out of a manhole cover.

Dan McCoy

[13:13] I hope this is if America's coming to the movies.

[13:15] Like, I came to see chuds.

[13:17] As if they knew what chuds were before the movie.

Elliott Kalan

[13:19] I haven't been this disappointed since Hot Dog, the motion to finish.

Stuart Wellington

[13:23] Hello, 911, I'd like to report a murder.

[13:26] The movie chud has been killed.

S3

[13:28] If you ask nerd heads from the 80s, you know, what do you like about chud?

[13:34] They'll always say, well, remember that box?

[13:36] Remember that video box?

[13:37] Yeah.

[13:37] They'll say, okay, so you like the video box.

[13:40] Yeah.

[13:41] You know, presumably you took the video box home, took the video out of the box, and watched

[13:46] the movie.

[13:48] Yeah, but that box, that box, it was so great.

[13:50] You remember that box?

[13:52] You know, I don't understand loving a movie based on the box.

[13:56] I mean, well, that is why I love munchies.

[13:57] Have you ever seen the movie Cyber Kill?

[13:59] Can you describe the box for me?

Elliott Kalan

[14:01] It's this movie that H.R. Giger did the cover, did the art for it, but apparently he got tricked

[14:07] into doing it.

[14:08] And the movie bears this super low budget thing where the mutants in it are like, they're

[14:13] just people in punk outfits, basically.

[14:15] And it's really terrible.

[14:16] And I remember when I was young, I saw that box and I was like, oh, this must be like

[14:20] Alien.

[14:20] This is going to be amazing.

[14:21] And it was terrible.

[14:23] And it was like, a real part of me died that day.

[14:25] Okay.

S3

[14:25] But see, that's, but that's a real reaction to false advertising.

[14:29] Some people love the box so much that they continue to love the movie even after, even,

[14:34] even after it's this, even after.

[14:37] It's a real stinker.

[14:37] Yeah.

[14:38] And that seems to be the case with Chud.

[14:40] Yeah.

[14:41] And they love the title.

[14:42] They love to say Chud.

[14:43] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[14:44] When I was a kid, I went to the video store and I was fascinated by the box for blood sucking

[14:49] Nazi zombies because it's called blood sucking Nazi zombies.

[14:52] And then years later, I saw it and I'm like, no, thank you.

Stuart Wellington

[14:56] No, thank you, friends.

[14:57] I feel like the biggest disappointment for me was I love the box art for Deep Star Six.

[15:04] And I feel like that movie isn't as good as the box art, but maybe I'm just being overly

[15:08] critical because I love the like, the like diving suit ripped in half in the middle of

[15:13] like so many questions for my young mind.

[15:17] Should we finally get into the movie though?

[15:18] Okay.

[15:19] Let's dig in.

[15:20] Okay.

[15:20] What movie are we doing now?

[15:21] We're doing a movie called Castle Freak starring Jeffrey Combs and Barbara Crampton.

[15:26] I'm not familiar with it.

[15:27] Okay.

[15:27] Well, you're going to, you're supposed to watch it, Elliot.

[15:30] That's, that's kind of your job.

Elliott Kalan

[15:32] Wait, but I don't know.

[15:33] Cause what do we do on this podcast?

[15:34] I'm, I'm unfamiliar.

[15:35] Dan?

Dan McCoy

[15:36] We watch normally a bad movie and then we talk about it.

[15:39] Well, we won't, we won't judge Castle Freak though.

[15:41] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[15:42] We're going to flip the script cause we're watching a good movie and we're talking about

[15:44] that.

[15:45] So the movie opens with an old woman pouring milk for a cat.

Elliott Kalan

[15:51] As, as all the best stories do.

[15:53] Yep.

Stuart Wellington

[15:53] She then starts chopping up a sausage in what appears to be foreshadowing.

Elliott Kalan

[15:58] The movie I was thinking of, sorry, Stuart, I had to interrupt.

[16:00] The movie I was thinking of was called Future Kill.

[16:01] Future Kill.

Dan McCoy

[16:02] I did see Future Kill.

[16:04] I did see Future Kill.

Stuart Wellington

[16:06] And you're absolutely right.

[16:08] It is extremely disappointing.

[16:11] So we, we have an old lady feeding a cat, cutting up a sausage and we realized that she lives

[16:16] in a castle.

[16:18] Wow.

[16:19] She walks down.

[16:20] The movie's delivered on one thing already.

[16:22] Yep.

[16:22] She walks down into the dungeon.

[16:24] We see a lot of cat acting.

[16:26] Uh, the movie kind of takes its time and may, uh, makes a point of kind of showing you like

[16:31] the, her journey from kitchen into the dungeon.

[16:34] Uh, and the, we see a very good cat actor.

[16:38] He's amazing or she's amazing.

[16:40] I can't tell.

[16:41] Um, she opens up a cell in the basement and she begins beating somebody that's trapped

[16:47] down there that she calls Giorgio.

[16:49] Uh, she beats him with like a chain whip or like a chain cat of nine tails.

[16:54] I think that's a cat of nine tails.

[16:55] Yeah.

[16:56] Yeah.

[16:56] Which is weird.

[16:57] Like a fail of some kind.

[16:57] She already has a cat with a tail there.

[17:00] So that's a cat of 10 tails, I guess.

[17:02] Uh, and she does.

Elliott Kalan

[17:04] And she's in, and she's in a cat stall.

Stuart Wellington

[17:06] Yeah.

[17:07] That's true.

[17:08] Yeah.

[17:08] Thank you.

[17:09] So she, she beats him so hard that she goes back up to her bedroom with her cat of nine

[17:13] tails, gets in bed and immediately dies.

[17:16] Now we have title, right?

[17:18] Yeah.

S3

[17:19] That's the complete performance of, of Helen Sterling.

[17:23] Okay.

[17:23] She's an English actress who played all the, uh, English roles that came through Rome.

[17:28] She lived in Rome her whole life.

Stuart Wellington

[17:30] She's great.

[17:31] And, uh, I'm sure when she heard she was playing the Duchess D'Orsino or whatever, she was like,

[17:36] Oh, great.

[17:37] Uh, what?

[17:39] Uh, so after that classic cold open, we get some titles and then we get one of those, uh, tunnel

[17:45] irises as we are introduced to the heroes.

[17:49] Very detailed, Stuart.

[17:49] Yep.

[17:50] The heroes of our movie, uh, John, Susan, and Rebecca played by Jeffrey Combs, Barbara Crampton,

[17:56] and Jessica Dollarhyde.

[17:58] Thank you.

S3

[18:01] Uh, I asked that like first in a series of one movies for Jessica.

[18:05] This was her only movie.

[18:06] I think it was her only movie.

Stuart Wellington

[18:08] She's actually pretty good in it, but I imagine this experience might not be the best one for

[18:12] a young person.

Dan McCoy

[18:13] By the way, you keep dragging my Twitter, but you know who follows my Twitter?

[18:17] Who?

[18:17] Miss Barbara Crampton.

[18:18] Oh, wow.

[18:19] I feel bad.

Stuart Wellington

[18:20] I mean, you know, you can mute somebody without, without unfollowing them.

[18:27] Okay.

[18:28] So, um, there, it's a family of Americans who we learn have inherited a castle after an

[18:34] attorney or an investigator, uh, had to do some research and track down who the inheritors

[18:40] of this castle are.

[18:41] The family who had owned the castle had, uh, had been bankrupted or they lost all their money

[18:47] in the war.

[18:48] Um, so this, uh, this family of Americans had to have to move in and, uh, make a decision

[18:55] whether they're going to want to live in the castle or just sell it, which they decide

[18:59] to inventory it, inventory the castle and sell it, which I've, I don't know the process

[19:04] of inheriting a castle.

[19:06] I guess that makes sense.

Elliott Kalan

[19:08] Never happened to you.

[19:09] What I like is that, uh, Jeffrey Combs is like, I guess I'll, I'll inventory it.

[19:14] I guess I'll, let's search the castle for booty.

[19:16] He keeps calling it booty.

[19:17] It's just like, I assume you'd hire a professional who could identify what all the things in the

[19:21] castle are.

[19:22] Like, I'm just making a list that's just like old bed.

[19:25] This is before, this is before pawn stars, dude.

Stuart Wellington

[19:28] Pawn stars.

[19:29] This is before pawn stars or whatever it was.

Elliott Kalan

[19:31] So he would just bring each item one at a time into the pawn shop for pawn stars.

[19:36] It's like, I got a castle full of them.

[19:37] This is going to take a while.

S3

[19:39] I have a, I have a question about that.

[19:42] That particular scene.

[19:43] Okay.

[19:43] The castle freak, which we've seen being beaten with a cat and nine tails.

[19:49] Now the only, the, the woman who can give him sausage or whatever she was preparing for him, she's, she's gone.

[19:57] Yeah.

[19:58] Now there's gotta be a period of time when her death is reported is she's, her body is discovered.

[20:04] Her death is reported.

[20:05] The attorney is hired.

[20:07] Sure.

[20:07] Yeah.

[20:08] The people are, the Americans are contacted in whatever town that they live in.

[20:13] They go to JFK.

[20:15] Possibly months.

[20:15] Yeah.

[20:16] They've got to go to the travel agent.

[20:17] They go to the travel agent.

[20:19] They go to JFK.

[20:20] They fly to Rome.

[20:23] They get the, they get the bus to the little town and wherever.

[20:27] Probably the flight's delayed.

[20:28] No, no, no.

[20:28] They have a car.

[20:29] They have their own car, right?

[20:30] They get a cab driver drives.

Dan McCoy

[20:32] Driver is driving too fast.

[20:33] Yeah.

[20:33] All right.

S3

[20:34] They, they, they, they, uh, they have a driver who takes them to the little town.

[20:37] Yep.

[20:38] Why wouldn't the castle freak be dead by then?

Stuart Wellington

[20:41] I mean, I think it, it says something about his almost inhuman constitution.

[20:45] Yeah.

[20:46] That's what makes him a freak.

S3

[20:49] It's not his appearance.

[20:50] It's his ability to not die.

[20:51] Because nobody knows he's there except the old woman who just died, right?

[20:54] Yeah.

[20:55] Yeah.

[20:55] I mean, there's a chance that.

Elliott Kalan

[20:56] And I assume the cat.

[20:57] And maybe the cat's giving him food.

S3

[21:00] And he, and he knows how to dodge inventory.

Stuart Wellington

[21:05] Yeah.

[21:05] I mean, I mean, I don't know what the bug situation is.

[21:09] Maybe he's getting a lot of bugs.

[21:10] Oh, it's a very Renfield sort of thing going on.

[21:12] It's like, I mean, at this point, like, I'm going to, I'm going to buy, the movie asks

[21:17] for a certain amount of buy-in.

[21:18] At this point, I'm with the movie.

[21:20] I'm okay with it.

S3

[21:21] I'm going to suggest that.

[21:21] I do remember some water dripping down a wall or something.

[21:25] Uh-huh.

Stuart Wellington

[21:25] Yep.

[21:25] That's, that's proof.

[21:26] Yeah.

[21:27] You can get moisture.

[21:27] That's cool.

Elliott Kalan

[21:28] So I'm going to suggest much as some elephants to get the salt they need will go to salt

[21:32] caves and just lick the walls, that Giorgio has found the nutrients he needs in whatever

[21:37] deposits have been left by the water dripping down those walls.

[21:39] Oh, like some lichen?

[21:40] Maybe there's a fungus of some kind.

[21:41] Yeah.

[21:41] That he's been eating.

Stuart Wellington

[21:43] Yeah.

[21:43] And he's been eating like doozers and stuff.

Elliott Kalan

[21:46] Yeah.

[21:47] He's eating fraggles, doozers, yeah.

[21:50] Whatever, whatever underground creatures or beings he can find.

[21:53] Yeah.

[21:54] Maybe like, uh, like someone from Pellucidar shows up and he eats them.

[21:58] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[21:59] It's a huge mistake.

[22:00] Um, so we, uh, we're also introduced to, uh, Agneza, the housekeeper, who is the sister

[22:07] of the attorney character, the investigator character.

[22:11] Um, I think we don't know that till later.

[22:13] Okay.

[22:14] That that's revealed a little bit later.

[22:15] So right off the bat, we can tell that the relationship between John and Susan is chilly

[22:21] at best.

[22:22] He, uh, after they move into the castle.

[22:25] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[22:25] Speaking of chilly, Susan does not want Rebecca to open the window of the car because it would

[22:30] be too cold for her, which is like a weird way of, which is very protective in a strange

[22:34] way.

[22:34] Like you can't see, you'll get too cold if the car window is opened.

[22:38] You're very fragile.

[22:38] It's a, it's a, as a parent, I, I was confused by that.

[22:41] Mm-hmm.

[22:43] Uh, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[22:43] Did we mention the daughter's blind?

Stuart Wellington

[22:46] Is that?

[22:47] Uh, we, we haven't mentioned that yet.

[22:49] Rebecca, the daughter is blind.

[22:50] I was going to mention it, uh, after the flashback, but I guess, uh, I mean, I didn't want to highlight

[22:55] the, the challenge that she faces, but, um, I guess it is a plot point.

Elliott Kalan

[23:00] No, no, no, no, Stuart, you're right.

[23:01] We shouldn't, we should not define her by her, by her handicap, but by who she is as

[23:06] a person.

[23:06] She shouldn't be defined by that.

[23:07] Which is someone who's very friendly and frequently will take off her shirt, you know, at an inopportune

[23:11] time for some reason.

Stuart Wellington

[23:14] Uh, so the, the first evening John goes to visit, he makes a late night call to his wife

[23:21] because they're sleeping in separate rooms and she is clearly not having it.

[23:25] We get a little bit of exposition here where we realize that he has had a drinking problem

[23:31] and that, uh, what, like six months, nine months, uh, some time ago he had, he had an episode

[23:38] and he has not been drinking since.

[23:40] She rebuffs his advances aggressive as they are.

[23:44] And he goes to bed where he has a flashback dream.

Elliott Kalan

[23:49] Uh, and in that dream, this is, this is something that happens in movies a lot, but I've never

[23:53] had where your dream is just a thing that happened to you.

[23:56] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[23:57] I mean, I certainly haven't happened.

[23:59] I had that happen on like molested by my like weird subconscious, you know, it doesn't

[24:05] happen literally as it happened to me in the past, you know?

Elliott Kalan

[24:08] So I wonder if, do you think what he's remembering is slightly different than what actually happened?

[24:12] Like there's some dreamlike element to it or it's just, it seems like a straightforward

[24:15] memory.

Stuart Wellington

[24:15] I mean, the idea is that I feel like that what we're seeing is.

[24:19] It isn't actually going on in his head.

[24:21] He's just having a horrible nightmare similar to the dream, but we see the flashback because

[24:27] we need to know that information.

Elliott Kalan

[24:29] Oh, okay.

[24:30] That's fair.

Stuart Wellington

[24:30] In the dream he's having, he's actually running away from, uh, Grimace from McDonald's.

[24:36] Uh, but in the, in the, in the flashback, we get some great, uh, Grimace is also somehow

Elliott Kalan

[24:41] his principal from elementary school.

[24:43] Yeah.

[24:44] Yeah.

[24:44] And he's not wearing any pants.

[24:46] Well, of course he's not.

[24:47] He's Grimace.

[24:47] Why would he wear pants?

[24:48] That'd be crazy.

[24:49] It'd be horrifying.

[24:49] Grimace would be creepier with pants on.

[24:51] How does he wear pants?

Stuart Wellington

[24:52] Does he put them on his head?

Elliott Kalan

[24:53] But it's like, if, if Grimace suddenly started wearing pants, you'd be like, wait, should

[24:57] you have always been wearing pants?

[24:59] Like this is.

Stuart Wellington

[25:00] Wait, where's your waist Grimace?

[25:06] Yeah.

[25:06] That's the, that's the true otherworldly horror that we're talking about.

[25:10] Um, so we get, uh, so in this flashback, we get some great, uh, Jeffrey Combs drunk acting

[25:16] where he's driving in the rain with his daughter and his young son, JJ.

[25:21] And he has my favorite line reading of the movie where he goes, everything okay back there,

[25:27] JJ?

[25:27] Hey!

[25:30] Um, of course, very quickly, everything is not okay.

[25:34] As, uh, Jeffrey Combs flips the car, uh, his young son is killed and his daughter is

[25:40] blinded in the accident.

[25:42] Mm-hmm.

[25:43] Uh, so there we have the tragic backstory.

Dan McCoy

[25:45] Yeah.

[25:46] That's maybe why his wife's a little peeved.

[25:49] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[25:50] I mean, it's definitely why she is, Dan.

[25:52] Did you not pick up on that?

Stuart Wellington

[25:53] And I mean, this, uh, this car accident is, um, I'll, I'll admit,

[25:57] probably not the most exciting car accident I've seen in cinema, but you know, whatever.

[26:01] They're making do with what, what cash they had.

[26:04] It gets the story across.

[26:06] Um, but he is awoken from this flashback dream to a child's voice and he goes and explores

[26:12] the castle and finds a really cool wine cellar, which is important because he's an alcoholic.

[26:19] So he picks up a bottle of wine, breaks it and cuts his hand.

[26:23] Mm.

[26:24] Yeah.

[26:24] As you do when you go to find it, when you find a dope wine cellar.

[26:28] This is when, while cleaning his hand, he runs into, uh, Agneza and Agneza has, uh, pours a glass of wine for him.

[26:36] Housekeeper.

[26:36] Yeah.

[26:37] She's the housekeeper.

[26:38] And she pours a glass of wine for him and her.

[26:40] He declines it because he's bleeding and he realizes he's an alcoholic.

[26:44] And she relates the tragic story of the castle.

[26:49] Um, I think this is the first time we get the tragic story of the castle in this, in this version.

[26:54] We hear the Duchess Diorcino.

[26:57] Uh, I think that's correct.

[26:58] I might be messing that up.

Elliott Kalan

[27:00] Who is, who's the lady, the lady who fed the cat at the beginning.

Stuart Wellington

[27:03] Yep.

[27:03] And, and beat the man.

[27:05] I mean, I think beating the man is the more notable thing.

Elliott Kalan

[27:08] No, she's a good cat mom.

[27:09] I was first introduced to her as a woman who feeds cats.

[27:11] So I guess that's just my impression of her always.

[27:14] We find out.

[27:15] Yes.

[27:15] She also, she also horribly beat a man she kept in a cell in the bottom of a castle.

[27:20] Yeah.

[27:20] Elliot.

[27:20] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[27:21] Much like a former coworker of ours.

[27:23] She loves cats, hates people.

Elliott Kalan

[27:25] Wow.

[27:26] Dan, that was, what a, what a passive aggressive attack at someone who will never hear this

[27:30] and nobody knows except us.

Dan McCoy

[27:31] A very specific joke at someone's expense that the audience will not appreciate.

[27:37] Yeah.

[27:37] We'll never.

[27:37] We'll certainly think less of you for it.

Elliott Kalan

[27:41] I just, I just want to say, sure, she keeps her, as we learn, her son, a prisoner for years

[27:47] and years in a cell.

[27:48] She beats him with a whip.

[27:49] But let's not forget the good things about her.

[27:51] She takes good care of her cat.

[27:53] And that's something I think should be, when her heart is weighed by Anubis in the afterlife,

[27:58] perhaps her service to her cat will help her get to that point where it's not as heavy

[28:03] as a feather and she can go to wherever the good people go in ancient Egypt.

[28:06] I don't remember where it was.

Stuart Wellington

[28:07] That's a good point, Elliot.

[28:08] Thanks for making it.

S3

[28:11] By the way, the housekeeper who comes with the inherited house is an idea that was first done in 13 ghosts,

[28:22] where the Wicked Witch of the West was the housekeeper.

[28:27] Oh, wow.

Stuart Wellington

[28:28] Margaret.

[28:28] Oh.

[28:29] Oh, yeah.

[28:30] This isn't the later remake of 13 ghosts, right?

[28:34] Well, no.

[28:35] With the wall.

Stuart Wellington

[28:35] With the housemaid.

S3

[28:36] With the wall.

[28:37] With the original William Castle.

[28:37] The original William Castle 13 ghosts, which is a convenient.

[28:43] I never quite understood why personnel would be part of the inventory,

[28:50] but it seems to be a common thing in horror films.

Elliott Kalan

[28:56] It's like, well, my contract was with the house, not with any individual human beings.

Stuart Wellington

[29:00] I have ominous tidings to bring.

Dan McCoy

[29:04] I mean, in a way, like when Trevor Noah took over for Jon Stewart,

[29:09] he inherited me and I've been haunting him ever since.

[29:12] Yep.

[29:13] Very true.

[29:14] Good point.

Stuart Wellington

[29:14] That's a cool way to slip where you work right there.

Dan McCoy

[29:18] I mean, I don't think there's anyone listening who doesn't realize that.

[29:20] That's true, actually.

Elliott Kalan

[29:22] I think maybe she works for the exposition temp agency,

[29:25] providing household staff who can tell you what's going on in the movie for decades.

S3

[29:31] So she's about to be the third exposition device after the flashback dream

[29:38] and now relating the story of the house itself.

[29:45] Or the duchess.

Elliott Kalan

[29:46] So is it the family's last name?

[29:48] Is it Riley?

[29:50] John and Susan and Rebecca Riley.

[29:52] Jeffrey Combs keeps saying, welcome to Castle Riley.

[29:55] And I'm like, that can't be the name of the castle, right?

[29:57] Like it's an Italian castle.

[29:59] He's just like, if it's called Castle Riley, there's a whole backstory there that I need to know.

[30:04] I feel like the movie doesn't need to get involved in.

Stuart Wellington

[30:07] It all started in the Hundred Years War.

[30:12] So yeah, the backstory shifts over because we hear a couple different versions of it.

[30:18] It's a regular Rashomon.

[30:20] I believe the one she gives explains that the duchess fell in love with an American,

[30:25] maybe an American soldier, and he got her pregnant.

[30:29] And then he ran off.

[30:31] And in her anger, at losing her husband, she killed her young son, Giorgio.

[30:38] Correct.

[30:39] Okay.

[30:40] And at that point, you're like, but wait a minute.

[30:43] The guy she was beating in the basement was called Giorgio.

[30:46] What?

[30:48] Must be a coincidence.

[30:50] Okay.

[30:51] So.

Elliott Kalan

[30:51] Wait, and I also, the other thing I would say.

[30:52] Is this where they go to the tomb of Giorgio?

Stuart Wellington

[30:54] I think that's a little bit later.

[30:56] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[30:57] That if it was, because I missed that she was supposed to, I thought he just died.

[31:01] She was supposed to have killed the son?

[31:03] Or is that my question?

[31:04] Why is she not in jail?

Stuart Wellington

[31:06] Well, I mean, because she's the duchess, dude.

[31:08] She makes all the rules.

Dan McCoy

[31:11] I don't know if that's how it works.

[31:12] You're a duchess.

Stuart Wellington

[31:14] Well, we'll get to that later.

[31:16] So, the next morning.

Elliott Kalan

[31:18] Oh, but she also says people think the castle is haunted because they hear creepy sounds.

Stuart Wellington

[31:22] Like a child crying.

[31:24] And Jeffrey comes, looks off, and he's like, a child crying.

[31:29] So, the next morning, John and Rebecca are set off to do inventory despite Susan's protests because she is very nervous that her daughter will be injured because he has not proven himself a very good caretaker.

[31:45] So, they wander around the house.

[31:47] And this is another time where we see, we get, you know, some glimpses at this beautiful house that Charles Band owns.

[31:54] And a nice collection of paintings that include a ton of, like, scary kids and, like, a painting of Saturn eating his young and stuff.

Elliott Kalan

[32:02] He has all these, like...

[32:03] It's all baby related.

[32:05] It's all, like, memento mori, like, skull paintings and stuff.

[32:08] And it's, like, Charles Band, on brand.

[32:11] Like, the guy loves death stuff.

[32:14] So, they find...

[32:15] It would be really funny if they were walking around the castle and Charles Band's family photos were still up in the hallways.

[32:20] Like, they didn't have the money to take these down and redress the set.

[32:23] Just, like, say that there's somebody who used to live in the castle.

Stuart Wellington

[32:26] Yeah, like a set decorator went to take a photo down and was like, mm, you're not Union.

[32:32] You can't take that down.

[32:33] You gotta leave that up.

Elliott Kalan

[32:34] No.

[32:35] There's all these Full Moon posters up on the walls.

[32:37] Like, yeah, well, I guess she was a big fan of the amazing films that come out of Full Moon Studios.

[32:42] Like Puppet Master, et cetera.

Stuart Wellington

[32:44] So, they, like, they find a creepy nursery with a bunch of, like, just dolls hanging.

[32:50] They find, like, a rocking horse.

[32:52] They find the Duchess's bedroom where we get a big clue here.

[32:57] John finds underneath the bed, he finds that gross cat of nine tails.

[33:01] And he does exactly what you would think you would do, which is hit himself in his injured hand with it.

[33:09] Like, this guy is not trusted around anything that's breakable or sharp.

[33:13] I guess that's a symbol of how he's kind of, yeah, that's one idea, that he's doing penance for his crimes.

[33:22] Or also that he's constantly, like, hurting himself.

[33:26] Oh.

[33:27] You know, he's his own worst enemy by lit.

[33:29] Mm-hmm.

Elliott Kalan

[33:31] He really takes it in str-

[33:33] It isn't until much later in the movie that he realizes there's something weird about an old lady having a cat of nine tails under her bed.

[33:39] He just, he takes it in str-

[33:40] He's like, why does she have this?

[33:41] Crazy.

[33:42] Anyway, moving on.

[33:43] And then later in the movie, she's like, wait, why would she have a whip in her room?

Dan McCoy

[33:47] Look, Elliot, just because you're an older person doesn't mean you don't have fetishes.

[33:51] It's fine.

[33:51] It's actually a good point.

Elliott Kalan

[33:53] And I don't want to shame her on that.

[33:54] If that's what she's into, it's clearly not.

[33:56] We've seen the movie.

[33:57] She's using it to torture him.

[33:58] But I don't want to shame her if she is into that.

[34:01] I will shame her for torturing a man in a prison cell.

[34:04] But you're right, Dan.

[34:04] Perhaps that just was an outgrowth of her natural kink, in which case more power to her.

[34:09] As long as she's not hurting anybody, which she is, your show, your son.

[34:14] But if that wasn't the case, then yeah, go ahead.

[34:17] Go ahead, Duchess.

[34:18] Be your bad self.

S3

[34:20] Live your truth.

[34:21] I actually think all of these little touches with Jeffrey Combs are to instill the self-loathing idea

[34:30] so that when he goes nutsoid in the third act, it's not overacting.

[34:37] All this stuff is eating at him the whole time.

Dan McCoy

[34:41] Yeah, because overacting out of Jeffrey Combs would be very strange.

Stuart Wellington

[34:46] I mean, if you want somebody to go nutsoid in the third act,

[34:49] I mean, I can't think of anyone better.

[34:51] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[34:52] I feel like...

[34:53] I want to make it clear.

[34:54] I love him.

[34:54] I'm not like, his overacting is great overacting.

Stuart Wellington

[34:58] Yeah.

[35:00] Yeah.

[35:00] F. Murray Abraham, Sam Neill levels.

[35:02] Okay.

[35:03] So, while John gets engrossed in an old photo album.

[35:08] Emphasis on gross.

[35:10] Yep.

[35:10] He gets engrossed in an old photo album.

[35:13] He, of course, is not paying enough attention to his daughter, who then wanders off.

[35:18] And she hears a shuffling sound.

[35:21] And we're like, what is that sound?

[35:22] Of course, cat scare.

[35:25] We see that cool cat actor from earlier in the movie.

[35:29] Cat actor.

Dan McCoy

[35:30] So, that cat actor leads Rebecca on a merry chase.

Stuart Wellington

[35:33] Give her the respect that him or her deserves.

[35:37] The cat leads Rebecca on a merry chase down into the dungeons.

[35:41] Rebecca takes a little spill, goes rolling down the dungeon.

[35:45] It's not even steps at this point.

[35:47] It's just like.

[35:48] Yeah.

[35:48] A ramp.

[35:49] Yeah.

[35:49] It's like a ramp filled with nodules and sharp points.

[35:54] And she cuts her knees.

[35:56] And the cat's like, meow.

[35:57] And she's like, shut the fuck up.

Elliott Kalan

[36:00] And the cat.

[36:00] Stu, that is a radical reading of the interaction.

[36:06] You're projecting a lot of yourself onto that interaction between Becca and the cat.

Stuart Wellington

[36:10] Yeah, you know.

[36:12] So, the cat is clearly leading her down there because the cat found the old, like, serving dish that Giorgio had been given earlier.

[36:22] A place that often sausage had been laid.

Elliott Kalan

[36:28] So, the cat is being very Garfield here.

[36:30] Where it's like, feed me.

[36:32] I hate Mondays.

[36:33] I live in a castle.

Stuart Wellington

[36:35] Yep.

[36:35] And then that Garfield goes to find its Odie in the form of a very food-deprived Giorgio who's passed out on the bottom of his cell.

[36:45] Rebecca is asking if anyone's there.

[36:48] She's like, we have this moment of a blind character who's just right outside of the cell of a horrible monster character.

[36:54] And then she wanders off.

[36:56] The cat tries to leave.

[36:58] Not so fast, kitty.

[37:00] And we see a, as a cat lover, a kind of difficult-to-watch sequence where Giorgio drags the cat back into the room and then attacks a very funny cat puppet.

Elliott Kalan

[37:15] Through the conveniently placed pet door in the torture cell.

[37:18] Yeah, that's actually, who installed that?

[37:21] That's my question is that the Duchess was like, you know what?

[37:25] I want Giorgio to stay in here, but I want the cat to feel free to go wherever he wants.

[37:29] I'll just make sure that there's an entrance for the cat here.

Stuart Wellington

[37:32] Yeah, do you think it's to enrage Giorgio further because he has, he's like, I'm confined to this little cell, but the cat can go anywhere.

Elliott Kalan

[37:40] Like, mom, you love that cat more than you love me.

[37:44] That's not true, Giorgio.

[37:45] Well, I'm a prisoner and the cat can do whatever he wants.

[37:48] Well, you make a good point, Giorgio.

[37:50] Like, it's, but I will say when the cat is pulled in through the door, that is the most effective cat acting in that I don't think that cat's acting.

[37:58] I think they are pulling it against its will through the door, which is kind of upsetting.

[38:02] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[38:03] That's probably right.

[38:04] But it's, I mean, it's, it's very, it's very affecting.

Elliott Kalan

[38:07] Unless the cat was like, spent the whole day being like, I got to get into this moment.

[38:11] Like, what do I draw upon in my own life to really feel like I'm being pulled through this door?

Stuart Wellington

[38:16] Yeah, the cat watches roar a couple times.

Dan McCoy

[38:20] The movie where lions attack people.

[38:23] Jesus.

[38:23] I was trying to explain that movie to someone recently.

[38:26] I'm like, you know what?

[38:28] Explaining this is a fool's errand.

[38:30] You're like, mom, you have to understand.

[38:34] The lions are attacking people for realsies.

[38:38] But John, but John DeBond's head, mom.

[38:42] It wasn't my mom, but that's, but for the sake of the joke.

Stuart Wellington

[38:45] So, uh, yeah, Giorgio takes the cat, uh, devours a chunk out of it.

[38:50] Uh, finally a sustenance and he powers up and then he hurls the carcass into the, into the corner.

Elliott Kalan

[38:56] You can see his, his energy bar goes all the way to maximum.

[38:59] Yep.

[38:59] Right.

Dan McCoy

[39:00] Giorgio levels up.

[39:03] He's got access to better spells now.

[39:06] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[39:07] Uh, so at this point we also have, uh, John realizes that his daughter's missing.

[39:14] He goes running around the house looking for that.

[39:16] Of course makes Susan freak out because he did exactly what she expected, which was not pay attention to their daughter.

[39:23] And they go looking for her, uh, they bump into her and they have a scene where they talk about, you know, they, they, they, you know, they talk about various levels of responsibility.

[39:34] They address her injury, et cetera.

[39:37] Uh, meanwhile, we have probably the most important scene of the movie and that's where Giorgio now powered up realizes he needs to get the fuck out of there.

[39:46] We can't have a castle freak trapped in a cell.

[39:50] So he, uh, can't, he can't get his hand out of the, out of the cuff of his, uh, manacles.

[39:56] So he takes a big bite out of his thumb, breaking his thumb.

[40:02] And then he pulls his hand from the manacle, ripping his thumb from his hand somewhere in the process.

[40:08] I believe he also grabs ahold of his own ding dong.

[40:12] No, no, no, no.

Dan McCoy

[40:14] Let us explain to our guest.

[40:16] Uh, there's a long time conference controversy.

[40:20] Uh, before any of us had seen castle freak other than Stuart, Stuart explained that the castle freak was about this freak that lived in a castle who at one point ripped his own ding dong off.

[40:30] Now I, I, you know, was it.

[40:32] Stuart's words.

[40:33] Ding dong was Stuart's words.

[40:34] Stuart's words.

[40:36] Uh, I of course was intrigued by this and by Stuart's enthusiasm for castle freak.

Elliott Kalan

[40:41] Dan, Dan, as a, as a huge fan of cinematic genital mutilation said, I've got to see this.

[40:46] How did I miss it?

Dan McCoy

[40:47] Let me at this movie.

[40:49] So I watched it and I was like, I came back to the podcast.

[40:52] I said, Stuart, there's no ding dong ripping scene.

[40:56] What are you talking about?

Stuart Wellington

[40:57] And it was really great.

[40:58] Cause, uh, you know, a normal friend would approach me off air.

[41:01] To talk about it.

S3

[41:04] But no, he wants, uh, he wants to hold my feet to the fire of our dirty laundry.

[41:08] And so my favorite, I think they do show the ding dong though.

Stuart Wellington

[41:13] Don't they?

[41:13] They show, they show his like severed stump of a, of a penis.

[41:17] And I believe I will, I will suggest that in the process he may even rip it off himself,

[41:23] but we'll find out.

[41:23] Maybe I should check my autographed picture of Jonathan Fuller where Jonathan Fuller explains

[41:28] he ripped it off himself.

Dan McCoy

[41:29] Or maybe you should check the tweet you had from Stuart Gordon where he says, no, the

[41:34] castle freak does not rip his own ding dong off.

Elliott Kalan

[41:37] Somebody, somebody tweeted at Stuart Gordon.

[41:39] Hey, did the castle freak rip his own ding dong off?

[41:41] And Stuart Gordon's entire tweet was just, no.

[41:45] That seems pretty definitive, but it's, it's a complicated issue.

Stuart Wellington

[41:50] LA, do I need to explain artist's intent to you?

Elliott Kalan

[41:53] I know, I'm familiar with, I know, I know that, uh, according to Marcel Duchamp's, the

[41:58] role of the spectator in art, Stuart, your reading of this scene is as valid as Stuart Gordon's,

[42:03] if anything more valid than Stuart Gordon's.

[42:06] And that a piece of art does not really exist as a piece of art until it is observed by

[42:11] a spectator and interpreted.

[42:13] Uh, but in this case, I think I'm going to have to probably go with Stuart Gordon, but.

Stuart Wellington

[42:17] Okay.

[42:18] Well, so this is, this is in either case, this is an incredibly grisly scene.

S3

[42:23] Wait, is it, isn't this verifiable?

Stuart Wellington

[42:26] I mean, the fact about it not being in a movie is verifiable.

[42:30] Can't a freeze frame solve this?

[42:33] Yeah, I mean, what I would ask Dan to do is, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know,

[42:35] what I would ask Dan to do is after we're done recording to go frame by frame.

[42:40] Like what you did when you rented a DVD of who framed Roger Rabbit.

[42:45] And go frame by frame.

[42:46] That's right.

[42:48] Go frame by frame.

[42:49] To eat Jessica Rabbit.

[42:50] To prove that I, to prove that I'm wrong.

[42:52] Yeah.

[42:53] All right.

[42:54] Otherwise, I think, I mean, you know, whatever.

[42:57] Uh, so we, so we have a.

Elliott Kalan

[42:59] I think, Stuart, I don't know why you haven't yet done at a live show a Zapruder type presentation

[43:05] of the scene where you have a, you have a pointer and you're like down and off.

[43:10] He yanks it down and off.

[43:12] Clearly you can see where his hand goes, but maybe that's for another day.

[43:15] What would be the motivation for ripping off his ding dong?

S3

[43:19] That's a good question.

[43:20] We know the motivation for ripping off his thumb.

[43:23] Yep.

Stuart Wellington

[43:24] That he's ripping off his thumb to free him from like physical captivity.

[43:28] And I feel like he's removing his ding dong to separate himself from, I don't know, the, the.

Dan McCoy

[43:35] Captivity of sexual desire.

[43:36] Exactly.

[43:36] The temptations of the flesh.

[43:38] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[43:38] Or the responsibility of, uh, being, being a, uh, an air producing, uh, landowner.

Elliott Kalan

[43:45] Oh, I see.

[43:46] You're saying that he didn't want the responsibility of taking care of a child.

[43:50] Yes.

[43:50] And so this was the quickest way to ensure that never happened.

S3

[43:53] But we know from later scenes that he is not freed from sexual desire.

[43:58] Oh, that's true.

Stuart Wellington

[43:59] Well, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll get there in a second.

Elliott Kalan

[44:01] So.

[44:02] Stuart, Stuart, perhaps he, and this is the last I'll interject about, uh, his ding dong for the moment.

[44:07] Uh, perhaps he, like Boston Corbett, the man who shot John Wilkes Booth.

[44:12] Uh-huh.

[44:13] Perhaps, like him, he removed it on purpose with a pen knife so that he could be more holy and not be,

[44:20] plagued by those sexual desires, which that man did do at one point.

[44:24] And then he had to go to a doctor and the doctor was like, why did you do this?

[44:27] This is crazy.

[44:28] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[44:29] Um, well, uh, we'll, we'll, we'll see.

[44:32] Um, maybe it'll play out in the rest of the movie.

[44:34] So.

Elliott Kalan

[44:35] Also wait, or is it possible that there was a little manacle around his penis?

[44:38] Yeah.

[44:39] I mean, I don't know.

Dan McCoy

[44:43] I mean, that's a good way to trap somebody.

[44:45] I mean.

Elliott Kalan

[44:46] Yeah.

[44:47] To be honest, I'd be much more ginger about trying to pull out of that manacle than the one on my, on my wrist.

[44:52] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[44:53] Uh, so, uh, give me a second.

[44:58] I have to.

[44:58] Okay, cool.

[44:59] So, um, uh, we, Giorgio escapes.

[45:05] Giorgio sees himself in a mirror and shatters it.

[45:09] Hmm.

[45:10] Okay.

[45:11] Um, I think that was probably the nod to the movie poster.

S3

[45:16] Well, and to the, to the, the Lovecraft story.

[45:19] Yeah.

[45:20] That's the climactic point in the Lovecraft story.

Stuart Wellington

[45:23] So we, um, we, we cut to a scene of the, uh, the daughter Rebecca asleep at night and Giorgio creeps up on her and he does some creepy shit where he keeps trying to pull her covers down.

[45:35] And then he, he makes, uh, he makes a sound and she wakes up and he's terrified.

[45:42] He's hiding from her.

[45:43] And then he flees in terror because he like doesn't want to interact with her.

[45:48] And this is a, this is a great scene of Jonathan Fuller's acting and it builds this full castle free character.

[45:53] I like it.

[45:55] Um, uh, Rebecca at this point is freaking out because there was somebody in her room.

[46:00] She tells her father, he tries to find, uh, the intruder.

[46:03] Of course we have a scene where Giorgio draped in a blanket pretends to be furniture draped in a blanket.

[46:10] Uh, that's a little foreshadowing for what's going to happen to our heroes later.

Elliott Kalan

[46:15] It's, it's the one moment where I'm like, oh, so the Duchess, did she show Giorgio like Abbott and Costello?

Stuart Wellington

[46:22] And John, uh, you know, John's looking for an intruder.

[46:25] And this is when he finds the family tomb specifically finds the, the grave of Giorgio who, and there's a little photo next to his, his tomb.

[46:38] And it looks exactly like his son, JJ.

[46:41] So we have this scene of him looking at the picture.

[46:43] He touches the picture.

[46:44] He says, JJ over and over.

[46:45] Uh, Giorgio sneaks up and watches him do this.

[46:51] Um, da, da, da, da, da.

Elliott Kalan

[46:52] It's like, it's like Giorgio is like, are you calling me?

[46:55] Oh, JJ.

[46:56] I thought you were saying Giorgio.

[46:57] I'm so sorry about that.

[46:58] Let me, I'll leave you to agree if I'm sorry.

Stuart Wellington

[46:59] I mean, they sound alike.

[47:01] I think Giorgio is the JJ of Italy.

Dan McCoy

[47:03] Are you calling, uh, Jimmy JJ Walker?

[47:06] Is that what you're doing?

[47:07] Uh-huh.

Stuart Wellington

[47:08] JJ Jonah Jameson is actually Giorgio, Giorgio Jameson.

[47:11] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[47:12] Wait, that doesn't make any sense.

[47:14] Jonah is clearly his middle name.

[47:15] Why wouldn't, Jonah doesn't stand for Giorgio.

[47:17] What?

[47:18] I don't know why you're slowing the podcast down that way.

Stuart Wellington

[47:23] So John contacts the police and of course they don't believe him.

[47:26] Uh, that's, I mean, that's an important horror trope.

[47:29] Uh.

Elliott Kalan

[47:30] And he also tells, he tells his wife and she thinks he's going crazy.

Stuart Wellington

[47:33] Yeah.

[47:34] And I mean, maybe, maybe, I mean, she, she obviously doesn't.

[47:38] Doesn't, she's not going to be on his, in his corner in any situation at this point.

[47:44] So he, John storms off.

[47:47] She even says, uh, they, uh, you know, they have a fight.

[47:51] He's trying to show her that Giorgio looks just like JJ.

[47:54] And she clearly believes that this is his guilt weighing down on him.

[47:57] And he, he makes the comment, you wish I had died.

[48:00] And she's like, yeah, totally.

[48:02] I wish he'd died.

[48:03] So he storms off.

[48:04] He climbs to the, uh, the, like the parapets of the castle.

[48:08] And there's another moment where the, the movie actually follows him all the way through the castle.

[48:12] So we get some sense of like, sense of the space.

[48:16] Like we get, we get an understanding of the geography of the castle.

[48:18] And he climbs.

Elliott Kalan

[48:19] And also, it doubles as if, if, in case Charles Mann wanted to sell the castle, he would already have like a walkthrough video he could show to people.

Stuart Wellington

[48:27] They're like, we like this place, but does the freak come with the house?

Elliott Kalan

[48:33] No, that's a good question.

[48:35] The freak will come with me.

[48:36] The housekeeper stays with the house.

[48:38] But I'll, uh, that's my freak and I'll take it.

[48:40] I'm, I'm in the, uh, I'm, I'm in the process.

[48:43] I'm in a similar process of, uh, home shopping right now.

[48:46] And that's the kind of conversation I have all the time.

[48:48] Does the fire table come with the house?

[48:50] No, we'll take that with us.

[48:51] But the freak will stay in the basement.

[48:53] Uh, like, could you take that?

[48:56] Because I don't have to pay for the removal.

[48:57] Well, we'll give you credits off of the closing costs to pay for the freak removal.

[49:01] Eh, it's not the same thing, but okay.

Stuart Wellington

[49:03] So, John, John climbs up to the battlements and he contemplates suicide for a moment.

[49:08] Like, he, he's, he's at a very low point.

[49:12] Okay.

[49:13] So, instead of doing that, he, uh, does the next best thing, which is he falls off the wagon.

[49:19] And he goes to a local cafe in town and starts drinking.

[49:23] Uh, he gets very drunk.

[49:25] He befriends a local prostitute named Silvana.

[49:30] And, uh, he gets 86 from that bar.

[49:33] And it is a very brightly lit bar that looks like it is not prepared to handle a very drunk American guy.

[49:40] Uh, also great Jeffrey Combs drunk acting.

[49:43] They get thrown out and he suggests, hey, I have some more wine.

[49:48] I know a place where we can get some wine.

[49:50] Of course, he takes.

S3

[49:51] I think he's not aware that she's a, he's so drunk.

[49:53] He's not aware she's the town prostitute.

Stuart Wellington

[49:55] That's, that's probably true.

[49:57] She, he's, I mean, Jeffrey Combs is an incredibly handsome leading man type.

[50:02] So, he, uh, he, yeah, I don't know why you're dragging Jeffrey Combs.

[50:08] He's awesome.

Elliott Kalan

[50:08] I'm not sure if that was a dig or not.

Stuart Wellington

[50:10] It doesn't make sense.

[50:10] Although, one of the things I like about this is that of, if you look at that, the, if you look at the, the trilogy of Jeffrey Combs, Barbara Cramp, and Stuart Gordon movies, he plays a different type of character in each one.

[50:22] And this one is a more straightforward, non-mad scientist-y character.

[50:27] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[50:27] I mean, you compare this to Herbert West and it's, and they're, they're totally different characters.

[50:31] They still have that, they still have a, that same kind of madness in a way, but yeah, they're, they play different roles and they, and they're different personalities.

[50:38] It's really fantastic.

Stuart Wellington

[50:39] Whereas Herbert West is obsessed with some kind of green liquid, he, uh, John Riley is obsessed with some kind of alcoholic liquid.

Elliott Kalan

[50:47] Mm-hmm.

[50:47] Amber or purple liquid, depending on, I guess, what he's drinking.

[50:50] Yeah.

[50:50] You know?

Stuart Wellington

[50:51] So, John and Silvana go back to the castle and to the wine cellar.

Elliott Kalan

[50:54] He's so drunk that I guess he doesn't notice, he would, to be honest to him, he would never know that she was a prostitute except for the way she's dressed and how she immediately puts her arm in his and also how she's the only woman in the entire bar.

[51:05] And everyone in the, in the room has the familiarity that you would have with someone that you've slept with.

[51:10] So, how could he know?

Stuart Wellington

[51:12] So, they go back to his wine cellar.

[51:14] Uh, they drink a little bit of wine and then, uh, they get frisky.

[51:19] Uh, Giorgio sneaks up and watches them make love.

[51:23] Uh, she then reveals, uh, John's immediately embarrassed and then she reveals that she is a prostitute by asking for money.

[51:32] He accepts this and then he goes and he lays, he like curls up in a corner and gets drunker and passes out.

[51:38] She has to find her way home.

[51:40] Uh-oh, she's trapped in that castle.

[51:43] Giorgio sneaks up.

[51:44] With a freak.

Dan McCoy

[51:44] Yeah.

[51:45] Giorgio uses the nursery to lure her into the room and then he captures her.

Stuart Wellington

[51:51] Uh, and this sex scene, like a lot of Stuart Gordon sex scenes, is pretty explicit.

[51:57] Yeah.

[51:59] That's okay.

[52:00] That's it.

[52:00] I got nothing to say about that.

[52:02] Um, okay.

[52:02] But the freak, the freak sex scene.

[52:04] Well, that's good.

[52:05] We'll get to that.

[52:05] But I think the sex scene, like there's, I don't know, I feel like the sex scene between, uh, Jeffrey Combs and this actress is pretty explicit.

Elliott Kalan

[52:12] I think, fairly, I think the only thing that, that bugs me about it really is that he starts pouring wine all over her and like, that just seems gross.

Stuart Wellington

[52:20] Yeah, yeah.

[52:20] That seems, that's usually not, that's not like first date material.

Elliott Kalan

[52:24] Yeah, I mean like.

[52:24] And she's clearly miffed by it at first until she remembers that he's going to pay her money afterwards.

[52:30] But like, she's probably all sticky after that.

[52:31] Yeah, I mean.

[52:32] That's, that's.

[52:33] Well, he is an alcoholic.

[52:34] That's, yeah.

[52:35] Fair, fair.

[52:36] My two favorite things together.

Dan McCoy

[52:39] Yeah, yeah.

[52:39] I mean, again though, I don't want to yuck anyone's young, but like, I've never understood, like, I've never understood the food and sex thing.

[52:45] You'd be like, I don't want to yuck anyone's young.

Elliott Kalan

[52:47] We've been talking about a ding dong being ripped off by a freak, but.

Dan McCoy

[52:49] I don't, I've never gotten the food and sex thing because I like watch it in movies.

[52:53] I'm just like, ah, that's a lot of cleanup.

[52:56] That's all I can think about when I'm watching.

[52:58] I'm just like, uh, for the trouble.

[53:02] Yeah.

[53:02] I mean.

[53:02] It's going to take a lot of Windex afterwards.

Stuart Wellington

[53:04] You don't think combining two of life's greatest pleasures in one situation is the ideal way to go?

[53:09] You think that cleanup is too much trouble?

[53:11] It's too much.

[53:12] Okay.

[53:12] I mean, it doesn't always have to be like soup.

[53:17] But sometimes it can be soup.

S3

[53:19] Correct me if I'm wrong.

[53:21] I mean, isn't he about to use his mouth on her at the time that he pours the, and the fact that he does use his mouth on her is an important signal to Giorgio that has bad consequences later.

[53:37] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[53:37] Horrifying consequences.

Dan McCoy

[53:39] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[53:39] He, so he's bottling behavior for his, for Giorgio that will unfortunately be replicated.

Elliott Kalan

[53:47] Yeah.

[53:47] And before we leave off that subject, Dan, sex tip, do you don't have to use molasses?

[53:52] Like that's, I think, I know you love it, but don't try something else.

[53:57] Uh-huh.

Dan McCoy

[53:58] Okay.

[53:59] Yeah, my favorite type of sweet thing.

[54:04] The weird, bitter flavor of molasses.

Stuart Wellington

[54:09] So we cut to the next morning.

[54:11] The police arrive at the castle, and they want to ask John some questions because Silvana never came home that night, and that she is a mother, that she has a child.

[54:23] Giorgio, at this point, while the police are interrogating, or just asking questions with John, Giorgio, and that, of course, leaves, that leads to an awkward situation with John's wife because Susan is already angry with him.

[54:39] She is not more happy by him bringing a prostitute to their castle home and then her disappearing.

[54:45] Giorgio has tied, he's chained Silvana up in the basement, and he tries to form some kind of a connection with her.

[54:56] He tries to replicate behaviors that John was performing.

[55:01] She tries to convince him to let her go.

[55:04] He can't communicate because he has been mutilated and doesn't have a tongue.

[55:09] She then tries to, I guess, pleasure him and realize that he doesn't have a penis.

[55:17] It was removed in an earlier scene that I mentioned.

Elliott Kalan

[55:21] Stuart, I think that annotation I'm going to have to take issue with.

[55:25] I believe we don't know the cause of the non-penis, but I don't know if we can contribute to that.

S3

[55:29] I believe we do see something fleshy and floppy.

[55:33] Yeah, I think it's his ball sack.

Stuart Wellington

[55:36] All the visual effects were provided by, I think, like Optic Nerve Visual Effects, which is the effects company run by Glenn Hetrick from that face-off television show on SyFy Channel.

[55:47] The guy who looks like goth Guy Fieri, which is awesome.

[55:54] So, meanwhile, Agnesa, the housekeeper, finds Silvana's purse.

[56:00] She tells her brother, who is the attorney, that she's found this purse, and the attorney lets John know,

[56:09] look, they're going to arrest you, and if you want me to help get you out of this trouble, I know you didn't do anything,

[56:15] but if you need help getting out of this trouble, it's going to cost you more money.

Elliott Kalan

[56:18] This is such a great scene because the guy playing the attorney is so completely inhabiting this totally amoral, unethical attorney.

[56:28] He's like, it's not a problem.

[56:30] They have no evidence.

[56:31] She's a woman of ill repute.

[56:33] You don't have to worry about it.

[56:34] You're totally fine.

[56:35] He gets a phone call from his sister that the bagsman goes, well, this is a different story.

[56:39] My services, of course, will come at quite a price.

[56:42] And he doesn't even skip a beat.

[56:44] He's just like, there's no moment where he even has to think about it or switch gears.

[56:47] He goes immediately for like, yes, CCC, CCC.

[56:50] Okay, now I'm going to do this.

[56:52] I'm going to blackmail you.

[56:53] He's so good.

Stuart Wellington

[56:54] And he also, he explains that the, he also finally reveals John's relationship to the family,

[57:00] that the American soldier who the Duchess had fallen in love with, they had gotten married.

[57:07] They had had the child together.

[57:08] And then the American ran off with the Duchess's sister and they ran to America and they had a child.

[57:16] And that child's name was John Riley.

[57:20] Jeffrey Combs is the, what, half brother of, uh, Giorgio.

[57:26] Mm-hmm.

[57:28] Um, and of course, you know, he's shocked and he has that revelation, et cetera, et cetera.

[57:32] Meanwhile, uh, back of the castle, uh, Giorgio is doing some horrible things to Silvana.

[57:40] Um, she had attempted to stab him, uh, and to free herself.

[57:46] And that did not go well.

[57:47] And he, uh, he attacks her.

[57:50] Uh, Agnesa follows the sounds and finds Silvana only to be, uh, attacked by Giorgio with his manacles.

[58:00] And she gets, uh, yeah, it's pretty gross.

S3

[58:02] By the way, can we backtrack just for a minute?

[58:04] Yes, please.

[58:05] You know, in, in reanimator, Stuart Gordon has a head giving head.

[58:13] And in this movie, he, he, he, he has Giorgio literally eating pussy.

[58:21] He does, he, he, he's, he's copying Jeffrey Combs.

[58:25] But so Stuart Gordon has this thing about taking.

[58:28] Clearly.

[58:28] Literally.

[58:30] Literal sexual slang and enacting it visually on screen.

Stuart Wellington

[58:38] To various levels of appeal.

Elliott Kalan

[58:41] I wish, I wish that he like took that as far as he could go with like literalizing phrases.

[58:47] Where it like, there's a certain point where dogs and cats are literally falling out of the sky.

[58:51] Things like that.

[58:52] It's like Stuart Gordon, he makes these great horror movies, but he's always got to include one pun in there.

Stuart Wellington

[58:58] Yeah, he's got to literalize a turn of phrase.

Elliott Kalan

[59:01] But this, this is the scene in the movie where like, and I, I, I like horror movies a lot.

[59:05] But this is the scene in the movie where I'm like, check please.

[59:08] Like, this is a little too much for me.

[59:10] It's incredibly graphic.

S3

[59:11] When, when he, when he starts sexually eating.

[59:14] Yep.

[59:15] Silvana.

Elliott Kalan

[59:16] Yep.

[59:16] Yes.

[59:16] It's, it's, it's, it's, it's incredibly gruesome.

[59:19] Even the more so when you realize that she is still alive while this is happening.

[59:23] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[59:23] You know.

[59:23] It's, yeah, it's horrifying.

[59:24] Um, and Giorgio, uh, when Agnesa finds Silvana who's still alive, he kills the two of them.

Elliott Kalan

[59:33] Uh, meanwhile, the, uh.

[59:36] If Giorgio's like, oh, I killed the maid.

[59:39] Am I the maid now?

[59:40] Yeah.

[59:41] No.

[59:41] And like dresses up in her clothes and is cleaning the house.

[59:44] I guess I belong to the house.

Stuart Wellington

[59:45] The, uh, Rebecca, Rebecca and Susan and Rebecca try to leave.

[59:50] They're tired of John's bullshit.

[59:52] Uh, but the police stopped them and they start searching the house.

[59:56] Uh, John, they, uh, John shows up with the, uh, with the attorney.

[1:00:02] They're checking out the tomb.

[1:00:04] John's trying to explain his theory when they come upon the dead bodies, dead and mutilated

[1:00:10] bodies of Silvana and Agnesa.

[1:00:13] Uh, and the, uh, attorney at this point, uh, his, his, at this point we realized John is

[1:00:20] definitely going to need an attorney.

[1:00:22] And then his attorney starts attacking him because his, his sister was just found murdered.

[1:00:27] Yeah.

S3

[1:00:27] And, and at some, at some point we discover that the investigating police officer is the

[1:00:33] father of Silvana's child.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:37] Yeah.

[1:00:37] I think it's, it's, it isn't for sure, but it's heavily believed among the town that though

[1:00:43] ever that she is, uh, she has had relations with everyone in the town.

[1:00:46] He is the only one who has given her a child.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:48] And considering we see them together later at the end, I think we can, unlike the ding

[1:00:53] dong theory, which has no supporting evidence within the film, uh, this, this theory is amply

[1:00:58] supported with visual and thematic evidence and plot evidence.

[1:01:01] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:01] And probably multiple Reddit threads explaining it.

[1:01:05] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:05] Yeah.

[1:01:06] Yeah.

[1:01:06] That video that all those articles on Vox that were like the, the relationships of Castle

[1:01:10] Freak explained, the end credit scene explained.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:13] So John has, John has figured this whole thing out.

[1:01:16] He's, uh, he, he knows that there's someone else in the house.

[1:01:19] He talks about the, the whip.

[1:01:21] He realizes that, uh, you know, that she, that the Duchess had been holding Giorgio there.

[1:01:28] Nobody believes it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:28] And he breaks, he, he breaks open Giorgio's coffin to show that it's empty.

[1:01:32] There's just rocks in it.

[1:01:33] There's no body.

[1:01:34] Uh-huh.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:34] John, uh, John is arrested.

[1:01:36] Um, the, Susan and Rebecca are expected to stay in the castle, uh, as, I don't know,

[1:01:43] some kind of a hazing ritual in order to get to the sorority.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:46] It's, it's pretty crazy that they're like, they're like, uh, this is a, this is a crime

[1:01:51] scene.

[1:01:51] Of course, you two ladies are free to stay.

[1:01:54] They're not even given the option of getting a hotel room.

[1:01:57] It's just like, oh, well, we would never seek to kick you out of your home that you've

[1:02:00] been, you've been in for several nights.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:02] Uh, yeah, they're given a police detail to protect them of two policemen who I hope don't

[1:02:07] have families.

[1:02:09] Um, Giorgio, uh, Giorgio uses all of his stealth techniques that he's learned to distract and

[1:02:15] then murder the police.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:17] Yeah, he's a real solid snake.

[1:02:18] He's just, he's just going through the vents, sneaking around.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:22] Uh, John, uh, John is interrogated and he manages to trick the detectives and break free

[1:02:29] and get out of there.

[1:02:31] Uh, yeah.

[1:02:32] Susan and.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:34] Well, now, now by trick, you mean he hits the detective over the head with a, like a

[1:02:37] chair.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:37] I mean, that's a classic trick.

[1:02:39] I mean.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:41] Like it's, it's not a battle of wits.

[1:02:43] Like he hits him with a stick and then he runs away.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:46] It's certainly the fate of anyone who does not give me a treat on Halloween.

[1:02:53] So, uh, Giorgio has taken out the cops.

[1:02:57] He, uh, he waits for Susan to leave Rebecca alone before he, uh, he knocks Susan out and

[1:03:05] then he, he sneaks up on Rebecca while she's changing and then, uh, drags her away.

[1:03:10] Uh, Susan chases after them.

[1:03:12] Uh, they have a showdown where, uh, Giorgio has, uh, Rebecca in his clutches and Susan shows

[1:03:19] up with a knife and hidden behind her back.

[1:03:23] Uh, she distracts him and says, no, take me, take me instead of my daughter.

[1:03:28] Uh, he attempts to, and then she stabs him with that knife.

[1:03:32] Uh, the two of them run away.

[1:03:34] Uh, they run up onto the parapets of the castle that we'd seen earlier.

[1:03:39] Uh, it is raining heavily.

[1:03:42] Giorgio shows up covered in blood and not happy.

[1:03:45] Uh, but before he can stop them, uh, before he can, he can do horrible things to them.

[1:03:51] Uh, John shows up recently freed from the police custody and, uh, they get in a fight on the

[1:03:59] roof.

[1:03:59] Uh, they battle for a bit.

[1:04:01] John eventually gets taken down and Giorgio hits him a bunch of chains.

[1:04:06] Uh, and then John grabs-

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:08] I just, until that, until that moment, John is fighting amazingly well.

[1:04:12] Yeah.

[1:04:12] For a man who is, I, is still probably hung over.

[1:04:16] Yeah.

[1:04:16] And also has been dealing with being interrogated by a policeman.

[1:04:19] He's like, he's really taking it out on this freak.

[1:04:21] And it was at that moment that I was like, why did I assume the castle freak would be super

[1:04:25] strong and an amazing fighter?

[1:04:27] He's been trapped inside of a cell for, it's like, it's not Cape Fear where he was working

[1:04:32] out in his cell for years, right?

Dan McCoy

[1:04:34] I mean, he's also fighting for his family, Elliot.

[1:04:36] Imagine, imagine the, uh, the preternatural strength that you would have if your family

[1:04:43] was threatened.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:44] Oh, no.

[1:04:44] I mean, the scariest thing about this movie to me, watching it this time, because the

[1:04:48] last time I saw it was before my children were born.

[1:04:50] Watching it this time, the scariest thing in it was the idea that I would somehow be responsible

[1:04:54] for my son's death in a car accident or that he would, or that he would die in a car,

[1:04:57] like that.

[1:04:58] I was so much more frightened by that.

[1:05:00] And then when the freak showed up, I was like, oh, thank goodness.

[1:05:02] This is like movie scary stuff.

[1:05:04] Like, it's like when I saw, when I saw, uh, the Babadook and every, when she's in the

[1:05:08] car and her son is just really bothering her and she's losing it, I was like, this is too

[1:05:11] real.

[1:05:12] And then when the Babadook showed up, it was the same reaction of like, oh, what a relief.

[1:05:15] It's a monster.

[1:05:15] Okay, good.

S3

[1:05:19] But all, all the, over the top, uh, Jeffrey Combs acting here at the, here at the end

[1:05:24] is, is justified by the fact that, um, he's already, he's already screwed up twice.

[1:05:32] Yeah.

[1:05:32] And it's like now the, now the two last remaining members of his family are about to be killed.

[1:05:38] Yeah.

[1:05:38] And so he, he's, he's got, he's got absolutely no, nothing to redeem himself.

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:44] Yeah.

[1:05:45] This is his, this is his last chance.

[1:05:46] He can't just stop him.

[1:05:48] The only way he's going to have to do it, the only way he's going to save his family

[1:05:52] is by grabbing onto a chain and dragging Giorgio off the parapets, both killing Giorgio and

[1:05:59] himself.

[1:06:00] So the only way he can save his family is by killing himself.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:03] It's also how Stuart saves his family ends, right?

[1:06:05] With Stuart Small and Al Franken shading himself to a monster and jumping off a castle.

Stuart Wellington

[1:06:10] Yeah, exactly.

[1:06:11] Now, Giorgio is totally dead, but he is, John is just dying.

[1:06:15] So he gets one final moment where he gets to, you know, he gets to say his parting goodbyes

[1:06:21] to his wife who forgives him, I think, in her, like her final thing, which of course you're

[1:06:26] going to do.

[1:06:26] Like the guy's dying.

[1:06:27] Like you don't got to be mean to him.

[1:06:32] Yeah.

[1:06:32] It's not like, it's not like you're, you're like ice cube killing the Anaconda at the end

[1:06:37] of Anaconda.

[1:06:37] You don't have to say something.

Dan McCoy

[1:06:39] Stuart's etiquette book.

[1:06:40] I would love, like a guy's dying.

[1:06:42] You don't got to be mean to him.

Stuart Wellington

[1:06:44] And then, then we, so the, the nightmare is over.

[1:06:48] We get the final shot.

[1:06:49] Susan and Rebecca dressed for a funeral are in a car, in the car, leaving the castle.

[1:06:54] And they pass the, the head of the police who is holding hands with what we assume to

[1:06:59] be Silvana's son.

[1:07:03] And that's the end of the movie.

[1:07:05] And I think, I think a very, kind of a meaningful, somber final shot.

[1:07:10] So normally, go on.

[1:07:12] Sorry.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:13] I just wanted to, something that I, I noticed this viewing of the movie, which I didn't

[1:07:17] notice for, is that Giorgio, the castle freak.

[1:07:19] And again, I just want to say what a great performance it is.

[1:07:21] And there's, there's a, before he goes, before the fight with, with Barbara Crampton, there's

[1:07:26] a long scene of him trying to win over the daughter and not quite being able to do it.

[1:07:29] Is that Giorgio, as this character who is kind of like, this kind of like bestial figure,

[1:07:36] he can only talk in grunts and kind of trying to say words.

[1:07:39] He's all chained up.

[1:07:41] He's this kind of like thin, but wiry and, and strong figure.

[1:07:44] I realized, and this, this like scraggly hair coming off of him, he's basically a gritty

[1:07:49] reboot of Animal the Muppet when it comes down to it.

[1:07:52] Okay.

[1:07:52] And so I wondered, I, I never noticed what, there's a certain point during the movie and

[1:07:56] I was like, wait a minute.

[1:07:57] It's like, and he chases after women, just like Animal the Muppet does.

[1:08:00] I'm like, this is kind of, it's like if Animal the Muppet was a real thing, he would be incredibly

[1:08:06] frightening.

[1:08:06] Just this like creature dragging chains and chasing after people and just grunting at them.

[1:08:11] So I wonder if that was, I would love to talk to Stuart Gordon and be like, were you at

[1:08:14] all inspired by the Muppets when you made Castle Freak?

[1:08:17] And I assume he would then block me on Twitter or close the door in my face or whatever, whatever

[1:08:22] response.

S3

[1:08:22] But, but, but does the Castle Freak have any even slightly redeeming moment, you know, like,

[1:08:28] you know, Frankenstein does and King Kong does.

[1:08:31] And, you know, like a moment of tenderness.

[1:08:34] Well, a moment where you kind of feel the pain of the freak.

[1:08:38] Cause you, I don't think, I don't think there is.

[1:08:41] I don't think you ever like.

[1:08:43] Yeah.

[1:08:43] Sort of like the freak.

Stuart Wellington

[1:08:45] Even, even the moment where, even the early moments where he's trying to like form some

[1:08:50] kind of a connection with Rebecca, it's done.

[1:08:53] It's pretty creepy.

[1:08:55] Like he's like.

[1:08:55] It's too creepy.

[1:08:56] Yeah.

S3

[1:08:56] The only time you feel sorry for him is when he's beaten with the cat of nine tails before

[1:09:00] the opening credits.

Stuart Wellington

[1:09:02] Yeah.

[1:09:02] That's, that's kind of the only part.

[1:09:04] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:05] Uh, but I mean.

[1:09:06] You're like, oh, that poor man.

[1:09:07] And then you see him and you're like, whoa.

[1:09:09] Oh boy.

[1:09:10] What is this?

[1:09:11] Cat of nine tails, please.

[1:09:13] Right.

Stuart Wellington

[1:09:14] Yeah.

[1:09:14] You're like, I totally get it.

[1:09:16] The Dutchess should be beating him with that cat of nine tail.

S3

[1:09:17] It's sort of, it's sort of one of those where, oh, this guy has to die.

[1:09:21] Yeah.

[1:09:21] From the, from the very beginning, you know?

Stuart Wellington

[1:09:23] Yeah.

[1:09:23] As, as, as like sad and horrible monster he is, he doesn't like, yeah, it's time.

[1:09:30] You got to put him out of his misery.

[1:09:31] You got to get rid of him.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:32] Do you, do you see that?

[1:09:33] Do you think that's kind of like a failing of the movie or just.

S3

[1:09:36] I think it, I think it might be a failing of the movie.

[1:09:39] It's like, because he, he is as he is through no fault of his own.

Stuart Wellington

[1:09:44] Yeah.

[1:09:44] And the, yeah.

[1:09:45] I would say that I, and I think one of the things that's interesting about it is that

[1:09:49] like Jonathan Fuller's performance as Giorgio is so great that he could have like, he could

[1:09:56] have handled a little more nuance.

[1:09:58] Like he could have get, if they had given him more or a sympathetic scene, he could have

[1:10:02] delivered with it.

[1:10:03] Yeah.

S3

[1:10:03] I mean, we, we have to assume that Stuart Gordon just wanted it to be in your face, nasty,

[1:10:10] irredeemable.

[1:10:11] Yeah.

[1:10:12] I don't know.

Stuart Wellington

[1:10:13] You know, even though.

[1:10:14] Something to really get people to break out their barf bags.

[1:10:17] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:19] Because it is very, it is like, it's so hard to get over that, that scene with Silvana.

[1:10:25] And it's like, like you're saying, like Frankenstein causes a little girl to drown, but he's still

[1:10:30] sympathetic.

[1:10:31] It's still clear.

[1:10:31] Like he doesn't know what he's doing and it's, you know, he's just trying to, he's trying

[1:10:35] to play.

[1:10:36] But with Giorgio, it's so horrific that you can't be like, oh, well, he's just, he doesn't

[1:10:39] know what he's doing.

[1:10:40] Like it's, I don't know.

[1:10:41] Yeah.

[1:10:42] And the.

[1:10:42] It's tough.

[1:10:42] You can't excuse him.

Stuart Wellington

[1:10:43] And it's, I mean, it's such a, it's such a high bar at that point.

[1:10:47] It raised the stakes so high where you're like, oh my God, I don't want to see him do this

[1:10:52] again to anybody.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:53] No.

[1:10:54] Um, the.

[1:10:55] You'd have to donate a lot of money to the local hospital to get over, to really get over

[1:10:59] that.

[1:10:59] Yeah.

[1:10:59] Like to open the Giorgio, the Giorgio tea freak wing of the local hospital.

Stuart Wellington

[1:11:05] The, uh.

[1:11:06] I do also want to point out before we wrap up our conversation on castle freak, I think

[1:11:12] the score for this movie is so hilarious.

[1:11:15] It's so like, like weird classic, like medieval, like, like knights and swords type scores.

[1:11:23] Like do, do, do, do.

[1:11:24] Like in scenes where he's like, like this horrible monsters chasing people through the

[1:11:29] castle.

[1:11:29] It's so like silly.

[1:11:31] Uh, it's obviously the cheapest possible thing they could do, but man.

[1:11:36] Woof.

S3

[1:11:37] Now.

[1:11:38] Now we have to talk about what dark rear lobe of your brain makes you constantly have to

[1:11:45] revisit castle freak.

Stuart Wellington

[1:11:46] Oh, I think.

[1:11:50] Wow.

[1:11:50] I mean, you know, maybe I'm exploring some of my own demons.

[1:11:54] Uh, guys, I forgot to tell you that, uh, before the podcast started 12 years ago, uh, I inherited

[1:12:01] a castle.

[1:12:02] Oh, wow.

[1:12:04] Uh, yeah, maybe.

[1:12:06] You've never invited us over.

[1:12:09] That's where Dan would go.

[1:12:10] Of course.

[1:12:11] Yes.

[1:12:11] Maybe, maybe the relationship between John and his half brother, Giorgio.

[1:12:15] I think maybe that has something to do with my own, uh, relationship with my own brother.

[1:12:19] Maybe we'll find out.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:21] Um, I would love it, Stuart.

[1:12:23] If you were like, I don't know, there's nothing.

[1:12:24] I, I don't, I don't know why I relate to it.

[1:12:26] I mean, I was raised in a cell and constantly beaten with a cat of nine tails and ripped off

[1:12:31] my own ding dong.

[1:12:31] Wait a minute.

[1:12:32] Just this amazing psychological breakthrough.

[1:12:36] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:36] Chaz Palminteri at the end of usual suspects moment of like, but all those things happen in

[1:12:41] the movie.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:44] I thought it'd be like, wait a minute.

[1:12:46] I get it.

[1:12:47] I like Barbara Crampton.

[1:12:50] Oh, Stuart, I think you missed the horse for the trees there, but.

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:54] Which once again, this is another great Barbara Crampton performance.

[1:12:56] Oh, sure.

S3

[1:12:57] She's always.

[1:12:57] It is.

[1:12:58] Even though she's not a, she's, it's a very mom role.

[1:13:01] Yeah.

[1:13:01] Which is not what she normally does.

Stuart Wellington

[1:13:03] Yeah.

[1:13:04] She's very like nagging in this movie.

[1:13:06] She's nagging enough that even her daughter who does a lot of nagging is like, hey mom,

[1:13:11] you're nagging too much.

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:13] Well, it's, it's the, although what the, that's another, another failing of the movie

[1:13:17] for me is that it's kind of like a, in Breaking Bad when Skylar, everyone's like, oh, she's

[1:13:21] such a shrew.

[1:13:21] And it's like, well, her husband's being really terrible as a husband and father that like

[1:13:25] Barbara Crampton comes off as nagging, but like she has a genuine beef with her husband,

[1:13:29] the alcoholic who killed her son and blinded her daughter.

[1:13:32] You know, uh, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:13:34] Uh, look, normally here we would do final judgments, but I think if we said anything other than

[1:13:40] this being the greatest movie that was ever made, Stuart would rip his own ding dong off

[1:13:44] in rage and, uh, beat us with it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:13:48] Yeah, we wouldn't want that.

[1:13:49] I mean, cause mainly cause this is an audio medium and people wouldn't get to enjoy that

[1:13:53] sign.

[1:13:54] Unlike the movie, which features it.

[1:13:55] Genre film fans hear me.

S5

[1:14:03] I know you're out there.

[1:14:05] Do not be ashamed of your love for gore, action, sci-fi, or fantasy.

[1:14:09] It's time to come out of the shadows because on Switchblade Sisters, we celebrate our love

[1:14:14] for genre films.

[1:14:15] I'm film critic April Wolf.

[1:14:17] Each week I have a conversation with a different female filmmaker about their fave genre film

[1:14:21] and we cover film craft, getting projects off the ground, working with actors, in our

[1:14:25] general love for genre movies.

[1:14:27] I've had so many great guests like Heather Graham.

[1:14:29] In the past, it's like so many films are made by men that the female point of view is not

[1:14:33] always respected, which is why all these stories haven't come out till now.

[1:14:37] Jennifer's body director, Karin Kusama.

Stuart Wellington

[1:14:39] I think there's a lot more fantasy and a lot more expectation projected onto a woman director.

S5

[1:14:45] Comedian and actor, Kate Berlant.

[1:14:47] I mean, it sounds so cheesy to talk about it in yourself.

[1:14:49] Like, you just keep going.

[1:14:51] You're, you know, I'm just a vessel.

[1:14:52] Like, I, I just do it.

[1:14:54] You know, I don't think, but like, that is what it is.

[1:14:57] And many others.

[1:14:58] So check out Switchblade Sisters every Thursday on MaximumFun.org or wherever you get your

[1:15:02] podcasts.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:06] Hi, everybody.

[1:15:07] I'm your oldest brother, Justin McElroy.

[1:15:08] I'm your middlest brother, Travis McElroy.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:10] And I'm your sweet baby brother, Griffin McElroy.

[1:15:12] Me and 3,000 of your closest friends just found your next podcast obsession.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:18] Zero.

[1:15:19] Okay, but like, the second best podcast.

[1:15:22] 99% zero.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:24] Oh, just listen to my brother, my brother, and me on MaximumFun.org.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:28] There you go.

[1:15:29] Perfect.

[1:15:30] Thank you.

[1:15:33] Hey, guys.

[1:15:38] We hope you're enjoying this special episode that we had a guest on, Mr. Joe Bob Briggs.

[1:15:45] To that end, while we were recording, we didn't want to make him sit around while we did all

[1:15:51] of our housekeeping.

[1:15:52] So there are a couple important announcements that it falls upon me to fill you in on after

[1:15:59] the fact.

[1:16:00] The first is the Flophouse is going on tour this summer and fall.

[1:16:05] We mentioned it a little bit during the MaxFun Drive, but the MaxFun Drive was kind of what

[1:16:10] we wanted to put the main focus on, so we didn't talk about it a lot.

[1:16:14] But we're going to be at Revolution Hall in Portland on June the 8th.

[1:16:19] We're going to be at the Parkway in Minneapolis on July the 13th.

[1:16:25] In Boston, we'll be at WBUR City Space on September the 28th.

[1:16:32] And in Los Angeles, we'll be at the Regent on October the 12th.

[1:16:37] And if you go to FlophousePodcast.com and click on the events page, you can get links to

[1:16:44] tickets to all of those and more details like the exact time or whatever.

[1:16:50] They're all at night, so you can guess at the time.

[1:16:53] But yeah, that's the deal.

[1:16:55] It's going to be a lot of fun, a lot of travel for us, a lot of carry-on baggage, a lot of

[1:17:02] me lugging technical equipment around, hoping that no one thinks that they're dangerous in

[1:17:08] any way and tries to confiscate them.

[1:17:11] Just a lot of fun for everyone.

[1:17:14] Not a lot of stress for me at all.

[1:17:17] Moving on.

[1:17:19] There's a contest, a hopefully not ill-defined contest this time around that I wanted to announce.

[1:17:26] If you have noticed, the Flophouse merch that you can get at the Tapatiko store has not been

[1:17:34] replenished in a long, long time.

[1:17:37] Nothing new to buy there if you're interested in Flophouse items.

[1:17:41] So we wanted to change that.

[1:17:43] We wanted to do a new t-shirt.

[1:17:45] And we're not good at this, so we thought, why not make you do it?

[1:17:50] With a design, a t-shirt contest.

[1:17:53] So the outlines are simple.

[1:17:57] Do a t-shirt design and then mail it to us at theflophousepodcast at gmail.com.

[1:18:05] That's theflophousepodcast at gmail.com.

[1:18:09] Put, let's say, t-shirt contest in the subject line so it's all easy to filter out for me.

[1:18:18] And the winner will get to choose a movie for us to talk about.

[1:18:23] And they'll also get a little scratch.

[1:18:26] Not that much.

[1:18:28] Basically, the typical deal is you guys will get, whoever wins, will get $1 per shirt sold

[1:18:35] in the first six months.

[1:18:37] Or we can pay you a flat rate around $100 to $200.

[1:18:42] Not a lot of money.

[1:18:43] I apologize for that.

[1:18:44] But I'll also let you know a little secret.

[1:18:47] We do not get rich off the merch.

[1:18:48] The merch is a very small cut of any money we see from the podcast.

[1:18:52] So we're not trying to screw anyone over here.

[1:18:54] That's just kind of what we can do for you.

[1:18:57] But we didn't want you to get nothing if we were profiting off of your design.

[1:19:02] So that's basically it.

[1:19:04] The prize is get to choose a movie for us to talk about and a little money.

[1:19:09] Sorry, I'm coughing a lot.

[1:19:11] Not now, obviously.

[1:19:12] I'm obviously not coughing.

[1:19:14] But if my throat seems raw and I'm clearing my throat a lot, that's why.

[1:19:20] I apologize.

[1:19:21] But here's the boring technical information that doesn't make any sense to me,

[1:19:25] but hopefully makes sense to you as a designer.

[1:19:28] For shirts, MaxFun likes to work within a 12 by 14 inch area maximum

[1:19:35] and keep the ink colors to 4 or fewer.

[1:19:40] CMYK files preferred.

[1:19:43] RGB is fine, though.

[1:19:46] And 300 DPI minimum.

[1:19:50] So 12 by 14 area.

[1:19:53] Keep the ink colors to 4 or fewer.

[1:19:57] CMYK files preferred.

[1:19:59] RGB is fine.

[1:20:01] 300 DPI minimum.

[1:20:05] Unless that was all a joke from Kira from MaxFun to make me read a bunch of gibberish.

[1:20:11] Those are the technical stats.

[1:20:13] Oh, and the contest period will be, let's say, from when you hear this episode in mid-April sometime.

[1:20:23] I'm not really sure when this drops.

[1:20:25] Until the end of May.

[1:20:28] So you have until the end of May to get those contest entries in.

[1:20:32] Thank you for listening.

[1:20:33] Sorry I wasn't as rambly as normal.

[1:20:35] And back to the show.

[1:20:38] We've been going a little while in Castle Freak, as we should, because it looms so large in Flophouse lore.

[1:20:44] But now we should move on.

[1:20:47] So.

Elliott Kalan

[1:20:48] Now we'll move on to the rest of the show, where we will make our guest sit through the other random stuff that we do.

[1:20:55] And then apologize to him afterwards, I assume.

Dan McCoy

[1:20:58] No, I hope he has stuff to add, except for probably not this next immediate bit where we talk about Squarespace.

[1:21:04] Squarespace.

Stuart Wellington

[1:21:08] I don't know, maybe Joe Bob has experience with Squarespace, Dan.

[1:21:12] I don't think you should assume.

Dan McCoy

[1:21:14] With Squarespace, you can create a beautiful website to turn your cool idea into a new website.

[1:21:18] That's redundant.

[1:21:19] But blog or publish content.

[1:21:22] Okay, Dan, I'm going to ask you to start over.

[1:21:25] Wait, I shouldn't copy edit the copy?

[1:21:28] Sorry.

[1:21:28] Nope.

[1:21:29] And more.

[1:21:29] Look, if you want to put a great Castle Freak fan site online, why not do it with Squarespace?

[1:21:35] Because it features beautiful, customizable templates created by world-class designers.

[1:21:41] A new way to buy domains and choose from over 200 extensions.

[1:21:45] Analytics that help you grow in real time.

[1:21:47] And 24-7 award-winning customer support.

[1:21:50] If you want customer support, why not make it award-winning?

[1:21:53] And 24-7.

[1:21:55] Make it stand out with a beautiful website from Squarespace.

[1:21:59] Hey, check out squarespace.com slash flop for a free trial.

[1:22:05] And when you're ready to launch, use the offer code flop to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

Stuart Wellington

[1:22:12] That was, you were saying it was going to be our special thank you gift to Joe Bob for doing the show.

[1:22:17] Is that he can use offer code flop to get a discount on Squarespace.

Elliott Kalan

[1:22:22] Yeah.

[1:22:23] Now, Dan, I was wondering if Squarespace could help me.

[1:22:25] I had an idea for a website.

[1:22:27] I wanted to run it by you and see if Squarespace would be able to help me with it.

[1:22:30] Okay.

[1:22:30] Now, look, how many times this happened to you?

[1:22:34] You just inherited a castle.

[1:22:35] And you're having trouble keeping track of how many freaks are in there.

[1:22:38] Sure.

[1:22:38] Yep.

[1:22:39] That's what we at inventoryfreak.com would handle with you.

[1:22:43] We are freaks for inventorying freaks.

[1:22:46] We will keep an inventory of how many freaks you have.

[1:22:49] We won't let them get like, look, even if they're not in their cell, we will double count to make sure, one, that we got all the freaks.

[1:22:55] Two, that we didn't accidentally double count a freak if it escapes after we've counted it.

[1:23:00] And three, we also, for an extra service, will inventory which freaks have ding-dongs, which ones don't.

[1:23:07] We don't get into how they lost them.

[1:23:09] That's something that we don't need to, that inventoryfreak.com just doesn't handle.

[1:23:12] But we can help you inventory the freaks in your castle because we are at inventoryfreak.com.

[1:23:18] We're freaks for inventorying freaks.

[1:23:20] Now, Dan, do you think Squarespace will be able to help me with that?

Dan McCoy

[1:23:22] I think it would.

[1:23:22] Just use offer code FLOP for a discount on your next, I don't know, freak inventorying enterprise.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:31] And now, what about customer service?

[1:23:34] Is it 24-7?

[1:23:35] Because we would often be doing this inventorying very late at night, often in stormy weather.

[1:23:39] Yes.

Dan McCoy

[1:23:39] Yep.

[1:23:40] I mean, I don't think we have to go over all of the copy again.

[1:23:43] That would be accurate.

[1:23:46] But I do think we've got a couple of Jumbotrons.

[1:23:49] Who's ready for a Jumbotron?

[1:23:51] Who's got it pulled up?

[1:23:52] Or should I just talk?

[1:23:53] I've got mine queued up, Dan.

[1:23:54] Ellie, why don't you go first?

[1:23:55] Sure.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:57] This Jumbotron, I was about to call it a Jumbotron.

[1:23:59] Dumbo in theaters now.

[1:24:00] This Jumbotron, that's a free one in case Disney wants to throw us some business.

[1:24:08] So this Jumbotron is a slightly serious one.

[1:24:11] This is for Don Draper, and it's from Bill.

[1:24:15] And the message is,

[1:24:16] To Don Draper, the small, gray, fuzzy fellow, not the TV character.

[1:24:20] Don, you were a very cool, literal cat, and your glowering looks of disapproval gave me joy whenever I saw them on Facebook.

[1:24:26] I'll miss you, though we've never met.

[1:24:28] To Aaron, I'm very sorry for the loss of your friend.

[1:24:30] I hold you in the highest esteem.

[1:24:32] Warm regards, Bill.

[1:24:34] And so, a fitting farewell to a furry friend in this Castle Freak episode of The Flophouse.

Stuart Wellington

[1:24:40] Oh man, okay.

[1:24:42] Now I'm going to do one.

[1:24:44] Bring it back up.

[1:24:44] Now that I'm sad.

[1:24:46] Do you love horror movies?

Dan McCoy

[1:24:48] Sad at what, my amazing alliteration?

Stuart Wellington

[1:24:50] Yeah, exactly.

[1:24:51] Can I get to my copy now?

[1:24:54] Yes.

[1:24:55] Do you love horror movies, but seem to always pick the worst of the bunch?

[1:25:00] Don't worry.

[1:25:01] We've probably already watched it.

[1:25:03] Spoop Squad is a podcast where we watch the worst horror films that streaming services have to offer,

[1:25:10] so that you don't have to.

[1:25:11] We claw our way through terrible horror films to stumble upon the true diamonds in the rough.

[1:25:17] So join the Spoop Squad in the dark as they laugh in death's face on your favorite podcast provider.

[1:25:26] That's Spoop with two Ps.

Dan McCoy

[1:25:29] Wait, one in the middle and one in the end, or is there two together?

[1:25:33] Just spell it.

[1:25:34] Spell it, Stuart.

Stuart Wellington

[1:25:34] I mean, it's S-P-O-O-P.

[1:25:37] Okay, good.

[1:25:38] Okay.

[1:25:39] That's how I would have suspected, but I...

[1:25:41] Spoop Squad.

[1:25:42] So it sounds like a podcast after our own heart here at the Flothouse.

[1:25:45] Yes.

Elliott Kalan

[1:25:46] And speaking of horror movies and streaming, maybe we can mention The Last Drive-In again,

[1:25:50] just to make sure the message gets through for people.

[1:25:52] Uh-huh.

[1:25:53] Yeah.

[1:25:54] Let's mention it.

S3

[1:25:55] The Last Drive-In.

[1:25:56] Every Friday night.

[1:25:59] We do something that's against the religion of streaming, which is that we have a live feed event

[1:26:05] where everybody watches at the same time on social media.

[1:26:08] Yeah, it's really cool.

[1:26:09] So it's 9 Eastern, 6 Pacific every Friday night.

Stuart Wellington

[1:26:13] And you guys did Castle Freak last week with special guest Barbara Crampton.

[1:26:16] With Barbara Crampton.

[1:26:17] Oh, man.

[1:26:18] That's so cool.

S3

[1:26:19] And yeah, she talked about the castle.

[1:26:22] She talked about living in the castle.

[1:26:25] And of course, she loves Jeffrey.

[1:26:29] Sure.

[1:26:30] Yeah, yeah.

[1:26:30] And yeah, there was no Jonathan Fuller interview.

Elliott Kalan

[1:26:35] Were they living in the castle while they were shooting the movie?

S3

[1:26:38] Yes, they were.

[1:26:38] Because is Charlie Band going to pay for the hotel?

Elliott Kalan

[1:26:43] No, he's not.

[1:26:44] When he has a castle.

[1:26:46] Good point.

[1:26:46] Yes, they lived in the castle.

Stuart Wellington

[1:26:47] They ate in the castle.

[1:26:49] Yep.

[1:26:49] And Full Moon Productions paid him, the owner of Full Moon Productions, to use his castle,

[1:26:54] I'm sure, right?

[1:26:55] That's how you do it.

[1:26:56] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:26:58] Getting it on both ends there.

[1:27:00] But we should move on to letters.

[1:27:02] Yep, go on.

[1:27:03] Our next segment in the podcast, where we talk to our listeners.

[1:27:08] We get letters from listeners.

[1:27:09] It's kind of one way, but.

[1:27:10] Sure, yeah.

[1:27:10] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:27:11] So this.

[1:27:12] Dan, you seem very trepidatious about starting this segment.

[1:27:15] Uh-huh.

[1:27:15] I don't know why.

[1:27:17] No, it's fine.

[1:27:18] I would not waste our guest's time with an overlong song that I'm making up off the top

[1:27:22] of my head.

Dan McCoy

[1:27:23] Okay, good.

[1:27:24] So this first letter.

Elliott Kalan

[1:27:25] That might go something like this.

[1:27:27] We're so excited to have Joe Bob on the program today.

[1:27:31] Yes, yes.

[1:27:33] Something we've been waiting for all our lives.

[1:27:35] I'm so sorry.

[1:27:36] Yes, yes it is.

[1:27:38] Letters are just the icing on the cake of this great day.

[1:27:45] All right, great.

[1:27:46] I didn't even try for rhymes on that one.

[1:27:47] I didn't even try to rhyme anything.

Dan McCoy

[1:27:49] But that's great.

[1:27:49] It kept it tight.

[1:27:51] So let's start off with this letter from John, first name withheld.

[1:27:56] John Riley from Castle Freak.

[1:27:58] Who writes.

[1:28:01] There are a few animated movies that are, I think, successful psychological thrillers.

[1:28:06] Perfect Blue.

[1:28:07] Paprika.

[1:28:08] Mm-hmm.

[1:28:09] There are also animated movies that bring the real creeps.

[1:28:12] Secret of NIMH.

[1:28:13] Watership Down.

[1:28:15] The former tend to work because they're realistically rendered characters and lean into the surrealism

[1:28:19] that animation allows.

[1:28:21] And the latter anthropomorphize cute animals, making them more relatable.

[1:28:26] And they're, of course, the movies that just make you feel nice and gross and unsettled by

[1:28:30] the nature of their production quality.

[1:28:32] Anything Bakshi, Wizard, American Pop, Mighty Mouse.

[1:28:36] Uh-huh.

[1:28:36] What horror franchise monster could you see working in animation?

[1:28:41] Also, what cartoony animated character or character style would work as horror?

[1:28:46] Is it even possible, or does the nature of cartoon representation strip away too much of what horror

[1:28:52] needs?

[1:28:53] Thanks.

[1:28:53] And remember, noids do not have sex with doodles.

[1:28:57] Okay, that's good to know.

[1:28:58] Thanks for telling me that last part.

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:01] Wait.

[1:29:01] I mean, it wasn't me you told me that.

[1:29:02] Wait, so noids have sex with anybody?

Dan McCoy

[1:29:05] I was told you should avoid the noid.

[1:29:08] Uh-huh.

[1:29:08] So.

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:11] Certainly if you're a pizza.

[1:29:13] Yeah, science knows little about noids since we've been avoiding them successfully for

[1:29:17] so long.

Stuart Wellington

[1:29:18] So, animation.

[1:29:19] I mean, I think the first one that comes to me is the idea that, like, I feel like the

[1:29:24] Nightmare on Elm Street franchise would lend itself well to animated stuff because, like,

[1:29:30] it's already pretty.

[1:29:30] Yeah, I was going to say the same thing.

[1:29:31] It's pretty, like, fantastic.

[1:29:33] And also, like, the target are kids.

[1:29:36] Right.

[1:29:37] I feel like maybe it might fall into the same category.

[1:29:42] I don't know.

Dan McCoy

[1:29:42] I mean, on an episode.

[1:29:45] Hellraiser.

[1:29:45] Hellraiser would be terrifying with animation.

[1:29:47] Sure.

[1:29:48] On an episode.

[1:29:48] Oh, wow.

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:49] Hellraiser really would be terrifying with animation.

[1:29:51] Yeah.

S3

[1:29:51] You could take any horror movie, give it to a Japanese guy.

[1:29:54] It's going to be terrifying in animation.

[1:29:56] That's true.

Stuart Wellington

[1:29:56] Yeah, I mean, like, that's the thing.

[1:29:58] Like, I'm like, have they made an animated version of Uzumaki by Junji Ito?

[1:30:03] Because that's the scariest drawings I've ever seen.

[1:30:07] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:30:09] It's not necessarily straight horror, I guess, but, like, it reminds me of the Aliens cartoon

[1:30:14] show that they made but never broadcast in the 90s that was, like, a pretty straightforward

[1:30:20] adaptation of Aliens, but for kids, with Space Marines shooting Xenomorphs.

Stuart Wellington

[1:30:24] You know, but for kids.

Elliott Kalan

[1:30:26] Yeah.

[1:30:27] But for kids.

Stuart Wellington

[1:30:27] I never saw this.

Elliott Kalan

[1:30:30] Wow.

[1:30:30] Because if you look online, you can find, I think, the animation demo reel for it.

[1:30:34] But, like, they released these Aliens toys to go with this TV show and then somebody realized

[1:30:39] this is a crazy show to put out for kids.

[1:30:41] Yeah.

[1:30:42] Where it's, like, aliens bursting out of people's chests and things.

Stuart Wellington

[1:30:45] Was it based on the success of the Animaniacs, which had the Goodfellas parody, Goodfeathers

[1:30:49] with birds?

[1:30:51] You know, for kids?

Elliott Kalan

[1:30:53] Yeah, I have to assume so.

[1:30:55] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:30:55] I think on an episode that's so H.P. Lovecraft-centered, I think that a cosmic horror sort of thing

[1:31:05] could work better in animation, maybe, than live action, because so much of it is based

[1:31:12] on, it's sort of as fantastic and unreal as you can get.

[1:31:16] But also, to move to the second question, though, about whether something cartoony can

[1:31:20] be scary.

[1:31:21] I feel like there have been, like, a couple of video games, right, that are influenced

[1:31:25] by old kind of Fleischer-Brother looks, like Cuphead and what's the, there's the one that's,

[1:31:31] like, more of a first-person thing.

[1:31:34] I don't know that one.

[1:31:35] But, yeah, Cuphead's pretty terrifying.

[1:31:38] It's just like the-

[1:31:39] You're talking about Kirby?

[1:31:40] No.

[1:31:41] But they, like, trade on-

[1:31:42] Excitebike?

[1:31:42] No.

[1:31:43] Skate or die?

[1:31:45] I'm talking about River City Ransom.

Elliott Kalan

[1:31:47] But it trades on-

[1:31:48] Oh, was it, wait, ToeJam & Earl?

[1:31:50] Is that the one you're talking about?

[1:31:51] Uh-huh.

Dan McCoy

[1:31:53] Sam and Max hit the road is what I meant.

[1:31:55] But it's-

Elliott Kalan

[1:31:55] Oh, yeah, Battletoads.

[1:31:57] Sure, Battletoads.

[1:31:57] That's what you mean.

Dan McCoy

[1:31:58] It's got that, like, those Fleischer-Brothers things are so unpredictable and strange.

Elliott Kalan

[1:32:06] Like-

[1:32:06] Now, Dan, when you say Fleischer-Brothers, you mean Fleischer-Brothers, right?

[1:32:09] Yeah.

[1:32:10] Mm-hmm.

Dan McCoy

[1:32:10] I do mean that.

Elliott Kalan

[1:32:12] It's just the-

[1:32:13] You don't mean that these are cartoon brothers I haven't heard of who are made out of human flesh,

[1:32:18] which is not that scary because everyone is.

[1:32:20] You got a point there, Elliot.

[1:32:21] You mean the Fleischer-Brothers who did, like, Betty Boop and Popeye and Coco the Clown?

[1:32:27] Yes.

[1:32:27] Okay.

Dan McCoy

[1:32:27] That-

[1:32:30] That they were, you know, they were cartoon pioneers and just sort of figuring out what could be done in cartoons.

[1:32:38] And because they were figuring out what could be done in cartoons and realized that anything could be done in cartoons, they did deeply weird things.

[1:32:44] And I think that that stuff has, like, an inherent creepiness just because they're manipulating the world in such a strange way.

[1:32:52] But it also has the creepiness of just old stuff.

[1:32:57] Like, I feel like old stuff kind of inherently at this point kind of-

Elliott Kalan

[1:33:01] Well, it's like, have you ever looked up pictures of old Halloween costumes from, like, the 1890s or the 19-teens?

[1:33:06] What?

[1:33:06] They're terrifying.

[1:33:07] Yeah.

[1:33:09] They're so scary.

Dan McCoy

[1:33:10] Archie is now attacking our special guest with love.

Stuart Wellington

[1:33:15] I mean, wait, were the-

[1:33:17] I can only assume that those were-

[1:33:19] Those Halloween costumes were, like, a plastic bag with the word He-Man written on the chest and then a mask of He-Man's face.

Elliott Kalan

[1:33:28] Yes, exactly.

[1:33:29] That's the kind of Halloween costume they had at the turn of the century.

[1:33:31] Yep, sure.

[1:33:34] But, yeah, I mean, I think-

Stuart Wellington

[1:33:35] There's that-

[1:33:35] You actually had a good point because I feel like-

[1:33:38] We've talked about special effects and particularly, like, very noticeable special effects when it comes to, like, digital effects.

[1:33:48] That, like, true cosmic horror and something that would be very different than, like, it would be hard to produce in a way that looks, like, physical and real might be better in an animated setting.

[1:34:02] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:34:03] I don't know.

[1:34:03] Well, it's like how the-

[1:34:05] I'm a-

[1:34:06] As you guys know, I'm a big fan of In the Mouth of Madness.

[1:34:09] But at the end, there's that scene where Sam Neill's running from those monsters.

[1:34:12] And they are scarier for being out of focus.

[1:34:15] Uh-huh.

[1:34:15] Because when you look at-

[1:34:16] When you do as I do and you watch the behind-the-scenes footage of how they made the monsters, they stop being scary because they're just kind of like big, drippy puppets, basically.

[1:34:23] Mm-hmm.

[1:34:23] And so I wonder if you're right that it has to-

[1:34:26] If something-

[1:34:27] Something that was very alien and more strange than outwardly scary might work better that way in animation.

[1:34:33] I don't know.

[1:34:34] Hmm.

[1:34:35] Cool.

[1:34:36] The other thing is, if you guys remember the-

[1:34:38] In the Twilight Zone, the movie, in the Joe Dante-

[1:34:42] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:34:43] It's a good life section.

[1:34:44] When she gets trapped in the cartoon and there's just, like, blood dripping everywhere, it's like, oh, that's pretty-

[1:34:49] That's a pretty scary old Looney Tunes-style moment.

[1:34:52] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:34:54] Uh, moving on.

[1:34:56] This next letter is from, uh, your dad, Tom, last name withheld.

[1:35:02] Uh-huh.

[1:35:03] Uh, it says, I became a dad about seven months ago.

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:06] Wait, is it my dad?

[1:35:07] Because my dad's not named Tom.

Dan McCoy

[1:35:09] Uh, well-

[1:35:09] Is it Tom Noonan?

[1:35:11] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:12] Sort of all-

[1:35:12] Oh, my dad is, my dad is Tom Noonan.

[1:35:14] Oh, okay, never mind.

Dan McCoy

[1:35:15] Yeah, that's-

[1:35:16] In a way, all of our dads.

[1:35:17] Uh, I became a dad about seven months ago, and I've spent a lot of that time-

[1:35:21] Congratulations.

[1:35:21] I'm thinking about how woefully unprepared I am for this new phase of my life.

[1:35:25] I find myself looking back through my memories for key moments that stand out.

[1:35:30] I'm trying to find a shining star of a dad to guide me.

[1:35:33] But the image of fatherhood that keeps jumping out to me is Michael Keaton teaching his unborn

[1:35:37] son to shave in the commercials for my life, a movie I've never seen.

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:44] Uh, that was-

[1:35:45] I remember so well watching the commercials for that and being like, there's no way this

[1:35:48] is an entertaining movie.

Dan McCoy

[1:35:51] So, Tom asks, uh, Elliot, what's the best piece of parenting advice you got from a movie?

[1:35:57] Dan and Stu, how much lamer is Elliot since becoming a dad, and would you drop him as a

[1:36:02] friend if not for the crucial part he plays in your Squarespace ads?

Stuart Wellington

[1:36:07] I feel like Elliot is exactly as lame as he was before-

[1:36:10] Oh, yeah, no, that was exactly what I was gonna say, too.

[1:36:12] He was always lame.

Elliott Kalan

[1:36:14] Don't say that, because, uh, Jonah Ray thinks that I'm lame just because I'm a dad,

[1:36:19] and he, I don't want him to know that I was always lame.

[1:36:20] No, no.

[1:36:21] I just blame it on my children.

Dan McCoy

[1:36:22] I feel like, I feel like the great thing about you, Elliot, is you just sort of grew into it.

[1:36:26] Like, you were always, like, kind of like a, a very straight-laced elderly man, and then,

[1:36:32] like, you became a dad, and it all started, all the pieces fell into place.

Elliott Kalan

[1:36:35] Oh, yeah.

[1:36:36] I was, I was, this is the role I was practicing for, rehearsing for my entire life.

[1:36:40] I was getting, all the, all those years that I spent boring my friends by stopping and reading

[1:36:44] all the historical plaques on statues.

[1:36:47] It's just so that I could bore my children with that.

[1:36:50] Uh, I've got two answers to this question.

[1:36:53] Number one, uh, Tom, all the movies that are really sappy and not very good about businessmen

[1:36:58] who have to spend less time at work and more time with their families, that's essentially

[1:37:02] true.

[1:37:02] Even though those movies are not good, it's like, that's, that's something where it's

[1:37:05] like, oh, I should spend less time at work and more, like, now, less time recording this

[1:37:09] podcast when I literally could be upstairs eating dinner with my son.

[1:37:12] But instead, I'm here.

Dan McCoy

[1:37:14] I mean, it's putting, you know, food in your son's mouth by, uh, by getting you paid, but

[1:37:19] whatever.

[1:37:20] I mean, fine.

Elliott Kalan

[1:37:20] But I could, I could literally be putting food in my son's mouth, like a mother bird, chewing

[1:37:24] it up and, and regurgitating it.

[1:37:27] Yeah, kids like that, right?

[1:37:29] Kids love that, yeah.

[1:37:31] But if, but if, but if I was going to pick a specific scene, I would have to go to the

[1:37:35] classic parenting movie, Son of Godzilla, where Godzilla is teaching Minya how to breathe

[1:37:41] fire and all Minya can do is blow smoke rings until Godzilla steps on Minya's tail and Minya

[1:37:47] breathes fire for the first time.

[1:37:49] And I don't recommend the physical abuse aspect of that.

[1:37:53] That's problematic and it's not something I stand by.

[1:37:55] But the lesson I take from this is that Godzilla is kind of letting his son try and fail to

[1:38:01] accomplish something.

[1:38:02] And then he finds the right way to motivate his son to succeed on his own.

[1:38:06] And in this case, it's stepping on his tail.

[1:38:08] Again, I don't recommend you step on your own child's tail.

[1:38:10] Should they have one?

[1:38:12] But, but like, what if they're like a lizard and it just comes off?

Dan McCoy

[1:38:17] I mean, that, that might help them, you know, fit in more at school if they didn't have that

[1:38:21] tail anymore.

[1:38:21] I mean, they grow back.

[1:38:22] It doesn't just fall off.

[1:38:23] I guess that's true.

Elliott Kalan

[1:38:25] That's all good points.

[1:38:27] And that like my own son, he's just started learning how to read on his own.

[1:38:31] Yeah.

[1:38:31] And for a while I was trying to like force him to read books.

[1:38:33] I'm like, you know how to do this, read this word for me.

[1:38:35] And he didn't want to.

[1:38:36] And instead I just had to give him the motivation of not reading him the one book that he wanted

[1:38:41] to read that I was really tired of reading him.

[1:38:43] And he.

Stuart Wellington

[1:38:44] The novelization of cars three.

Elliott Kalan

[1:38:49] I mean, it was a cars related book.

[1:38:51] I'll say that.

[1:38:52] And so he, he found that motivation and he did it.

[1:38:55] Also that scene ends with Godzilla rubbing Minya on the head in a way that's super adorable.

[1:39:00] Yeah.

[1:39:00] And when I don't know what it is when you're a dad, you just want to rub your kids on the head.

[1:39:05] I don't get what that's about, but it's a feeling I never had before, but I have it now.

[1:39:09] Yeah.

[1:39:09] So son of Godzilla that it's like the Dr.

[1:39:12] Spock of movies.

Dan McCoy

[1:39:14] All right.

[1:39:14] We've got one last quick email.

[1:39:16] That's no question, but it's interesting.

[1:39:19] This is from Joe.

[1:39:20] Last name withheld Joe Lansdale.

[1:39:21] Who says.

[1:39:24] Lopperinos Joe here with a little bit of extra info on the Meg.

[1:39:28] After listening to episode 275, The Meg, I felt the need to share something the movie didn't have time to get to.

[1:39:35] In short, if it weren't for Osama bin Laden, the fictional world would never have gotten attacked by the Meg in the first place.

[1:39:43] Further details.

[1:39:45] For some reason, I've taken the time to read not only the first novel in the Meg series, but I just finished the second book, The Trench.

[1:39:52] And hoo boy, shit got weird.

[1:39:54] While the first book and the first movie are wildly different from each other, the second book goes down an even stranger path.

[1:40:00] The accident Jonas Statham was involved in when he couldn't save the lives of the men at the beginning of the Meg was part of a resources race to find special materials at the bottom of the Mariana Trench that was funded by a group led by public enemy number one, Osama bin Laden.

[1:40:18] Okay.

[1:40:19] It's a major point of book two that goes kind of ignored as they're too busy trying to contain the once captured Meg that has escaped and is now on the loose.

[1:40:27] Okay.

[1:40:27] I could go on.

Elliott Kalan

[1:40:28] Wait, captured?

[1:40:28] I thought they killed the Meg.

Stuart Wellington

[1:40:30] I don't know.

[1:40:30] It's a difference in book to movie, dude.

[1:40:33] I could go on.

[1:40:33] When does that happen?

[1:40:34] Never.

Dan McCoy

[1:40:35] I could go on, but I will spare you.

[1:40:38] Oh, and Stu.

[1:40:39] Oh, sorry.

[1:40:40] I'll spare you more details until I finish the book.

[1:40:42] The third Meg Hell's Aquarium.

[1:40:46] Oh, and Stu, spoiler alert.

[1:40:47] The Meg totally fights a crocosaurus thingy from Jurassic Park, World of the Fallen Kingdom.

[1:40:54] Whatever.

[1:40:56] Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[1:40:57] Dan, you're the one reading the letter.

[1:40:58] Well, I feel like it falls apart at a certain point.

Stuart Wellington

[1:41:00] You know, that sounds exciting, and I'm glad that Crocosaurus Battle makes you think of me.

[1:41:07] Thank you very much, Joe.

[1:41:09] Last name withheld.

Dan McCoy

[1:41:12] So, I guess those are letters?

Stuart Wellington

[1:41:14] Those were letters.

[1:41:14] The next part of this podcast, we recommend a movie other than Castle Freak that you think people would like to watch.

Elliott Kalan

[1:41:21] This is going to be so hard for you, Stuart, because Castle Freak is the movie that you recommend.

Stuart Wellington

[1:41:25] That's true.

Elliott Kalan

[1:41:26] And now it's off limits to you.

Dan McCoy

[1:41:27] You know, I'm going to start this.

[1:41:29] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[1:41:30] Interesting.

[1:41:30] I'm going to, in the idea of recommending a horror movie that deals with, you know, tragedy and loss and trauma that also happens to feature Barbara Crampton,

[1:41:42] I'm going to recommend, wait, wait, 1986's Chopping Mall.

[1:41:51] Nice.

[1:41:52] A movie that deals with the loss of freedom that we'll have when our shopping malls are staffed with robot policemen.

[1:42:03] This is a great, I don't know, older, kind of like a trashy horror movie.

[1:42:11] It's got a great little performance by Dick Miller from Gremlins who recently passed away.

[1:42:16] And it has probably my favorite, well, in my top five favorite horror movie scores of all time.

[1:42:23] It's got a...

[1:42:24] And one of the most misleading titles.

[1:42:26] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:42:27] You would expect there to be more...

[1:42:27] And there's no chopping, right?

[1:42:29] No, it's mainly just robot attacks.

[1:42:31] And the mall has, like, a greasy spoon diner that has, like, a chef who, for some reason, is wearing all white clothes,

[1:42:40] which is perfect to show off all these food stains all over it.

[1:42:44] Let's just say, you know, it's a great movie about a bunch of horny teenagers who get in a battle with a bunch of robots.

Elliott Kalan

[1:42:51] I feel like that Chopping Mall also represents a real path not taken for director Jim Wynarski,

[1:42:57] where at a certain point he swerved off the road of low-budget horror and science fiction

[1:43:02] and swerved into mainly a boobs-based filmography.

[1:43:05] And so I kind of wish he had followed the Chopping Mall muse a little bit farther.

Dan McCoy

[1:43:09] I don't know what you're talking about.

[1:43:10] I do know about a career of one Harold Blueberry, but...

Elliott Kalan

[1:43:14] Wait, is that his...

[1:43:17] That's his...

Dan McCoy

[1:43:17] Yeah, that's one of his...

S3

[1:43:20] I think Jim Wynarski was always boob-spaced.

Stuart Wellington

[1:43:24] So you're saying he was denying himself with Chopping Mall.

[1:43:27] I mean, Chopping Mall is pretty boob-spaced, to be honest.

[1:43:30] I mean, I recommended it, so it probably is.

Dan McCoy

[1:43:35] I'll recommend a movie that...

[1:43:37] I haven't seen a lot recently, but I'll recommend a movie that I'm presenting at the Alamo...

[1:43:41] Wow.

[1:43:42] ...on April the 23rd.

[1:43:44] That's a little plug.

[1:43:45] Yeah, sure, why not?

[1:43:45] It's a Terror Tuesday.

[1:43:47] It's a movie called Terror Vision.

[1:43:50] Uh-huh.

[1:43:50] I won't say too much, because I don't want to cannibalize what I might say later on, but it's about...

Stuart Wellington

[1:43:55] So this is less for the audience's benefit, more so you don't have to do more work.

[1:44:00] Yeah, sure.

Elliott Kalan

[1:44:01] No, no, but I get it, Dan, because this will be listened to by thousands of people, whereas the screening will, I guess, what be?

[1:44:08] Tens of thousands of people?

[1:44:10] Hundreds of thousands of people?

[1:44:11] I just assume that...

[1:44:11] Save it for them.

Dan McCoy

[1:44:12] I assume that anyone who's coming probably knows who I am from this stupid podcast, so...

[1:44:18] I don't want to repeat myself too much.

[1:44:20] It's about a big old...

[1:44:21] I think you misunderstood the point I was making, but...

[1:44:23] No, I get it.

[1:44:24] I get the point.

[1:44:25] I thought about it, but...

[1:44:26] When was this movie from, Dan?

[1:44:28] From the 80s.

[1:44:29] It's about a big old alien monster who comes down to it because of a cable TV dish and terrorizes folks.

[1:44:38] It's got a lot of 80s actors like Mary Warnov and John Greese and Diane Franklin, and someone online described it as,

[1:44:47] if someone heard of the idea of an 80s horror cult comedy and tried to make that movie, they might make this movie.

[1:44:56] It's a lot sillier than it is scary, but if you like, I don't know, horror comedies at all, or goofy horror or big makeup effects, this will be right up your alley.

[1:45:09] And it's less than 90 minutes.

[1:45:11] Those are not your favorite things.

[1:45:12] No, they are my favorite things in the world.

[1:45:13] That's why I recommended this to be shown.

S3

[1:45:17] Have you guys ever done Howling 7?

[1:45:21] No.

[1:45:21] Howling 7?

[1:45:22] No.

[1:45:23] The movie that killed the Howling franchise.

Elliott Kalan

[1:45:26] Is that the one at the freak show, or is that a different one?

S3

[1:45:28] No, this is the one that's filmed in Pioneertown, California, which is an old abandoned B-movie western town that had been occupied by bikers.

[1:45:39] And so one of those bikers got the rights to the Howling franchise and used footage from Howling 4, 5, and 6, and some community theater actors from Palm Springs.

[1:45:58] And the country western bar called Pappy and Harriet's, which is a fixture in Pioneertown, California.

[1:46:06] And it is a werewolf musical with line dancing and various country western songs that you probably never want to hear again after you hear them one time.

[1:46:23] Are they sung with, like, are they sung with, like, a werewolf voice?

[1:46:25] And it alternates between werewolf killings at the Pioneertown Hotel, in which you never see the werewolf, but you, after the werewolf is gone, the community theater actors from nearby Palm Springs come on and talk about how horrible it was.

[1:46:50] And then...

[1:46:52] So it's like a radio werewolf show.

[1:46:53] Yeah.

[1:46:54] And it's one of those train wreck, you can't, once you see it, you'll want to watch it again immediately.

[1:47:03] Because it's just a train wreck.

[1:47:05] And using all the local alcoholics from the various bars in Pioneertown.

[1:47:12] Yeah.

[1:47:12] And New Line was so embarrassed when they first, they didn't really release it in theaters and they barely released it on video.

[1:47:23] And then it instantly developed such a bad reputation that they changed the title to The Howling New Moon Rising so that no one would know it was The Howling Seven.

[1:47:34] But I would recommend, if you guys haven't seen it, it would make an excellent episode.

Dan McCoy

[1:47:40] I think that maybe we need to put this on the docket for maybe small timber or something, because it doesn't seem big enough for...

Stuart Wellington

[1:47:47] Wow.

[1:47:47] A whopping 1.8 star rating on IMDb out of 10.

Elliott Kalan

[1:47:55] I wonder how easy it is to get the rights to a film franchise, because that and a while back we did this sequel to Easy Rider that someone did, because they got the rights somehow to the Easy Rider franchise.

[1:48:06] It makes me wonder if I should be trying harder to get the rights to film franchises.

[1:48:10] It doesn't seem that hard.

S3

[1:48:11] I think The Howling People, who I think were in Australia, I sort of remember that.

[1:48:16] I think The Howling People just had a rate card.

[1:48:19] If you want it, take it.

Dan McCoy

[1:48:25] Let's get the Munchies franchise, guys.

Elliott Kalan

[1:48:28] Yeah, yeah, sure.

[1:48:29] Okay, we got to get Munchies, Critters, Ghoulies.

[1:48:33] Finally have them all in the same movie.

Stuart Wellington

[1:48:35] It'll be the Avengers of little things.

[1:48:38] The puppet master will show up.

Elliott Kalan

[1:48:40] Yeah, and Dollman goes after them.

Stuart Wellington

[1:48:41] Yeah, that's perfect.

[1:48:43] Yeah, they have to stop Dollman from destroying the universe.

Elliott Kalan

[1:48:47] Yeah, Dollman's the bad guy in this one.

Dan McCoy

[1:48:50] So, Joe Bob, do you want that to be your recommendation, or do you have a solid recommendation?

[1:48:53] Howling Seven.

S3

[1:48:54] Howling Seven.

[1:48:54] You can't go wrong with Howling Seven.

[1:48:58] What was that?

Elliott Kalan

[1:48:59] Similarly, I'll recommend a movie that I watched recently after having seen it as a baby.

[1:49:06] Wow.

[1:49:06] But not having seen it as an adult.

[1:49:08] My parents would tell me this was the first movie that they took me to in the theaters when I was a baby.

[1:49:12] And I finally got to see it.

[1:49:14] And similarly, it's a movie about the scariest thing of all.

[1:49:18] Aging beyond your time.

[1:49:19] Aging beyond your time and having nothing but your memories.

[1:49:21] That's right.

[1:49:22] It's Atlantic City, directed by Louis Moll, starring Burt Lancaster and Susan Sarandon.

[1:49:28] Sounds horrifying.

[1:49:31] Susan Sarandon is in the chilling tale of a woman training to be a blackjack dealer in Atlantic City, whereas Burt Lancaster is an aging former, very low-level mobster.

[1:49:41] And the two of them find each other in each other's lives and basically get involved in a low-level crime and there's consequences to pay for it.

[1:49:51] And it doesn't work out exactly the way that I expected and in a way that I really liked it a lot.

[1:49:56] It's written by the playwright John Guare, who most people know from Six Degrees of Separation.

[1:50:02] I know from a speech he gave to my class at NYU that I found had very bad advice in it that I found a little insulting.

[1:50:09] But I really liked it a lot.

[1:50:12] Atlantic City.

Stuart Wellington

[1:50:13] Cool.

[1:50:13] Right.

[1:50:14] Four solid recommendations.

[1:50:16] All terrifying.

Elliott Kalan

[1:50:18] Or terrifying tales of the macabre.

[1:50:21] And also legalized gambling.

Dan McCoy

[1:50:25] So that's great.

[1:50:27] I feel like we've kept our special guests longer than we anticipated.

[1:50:30] Way longer.

[1:50:31] So apologies to him, but thanks very much for being here.

[1:50:37] We've enjoyed it so much.

[1:50:39] Do you have any final words?

[1:50:40] I enjoyed being here.

S3

[1:50:42] I would just say, in reference to Atlantic City, I just came back from Atlantic City.

[1:50:47] And you didn't note that that movie, which was made in 1978,

[1:50:51] was the ghetto Atlantic City.

[1:50:54] The Atlantic City where everything had fallen into disrepair.

[1:50:57] Oh, okay.

[1:50:57] It was back when it was like...

[1:50:58] Well, I should do the remake right now.

Stuart Wellington

[1:51:02] What's it like?

[1:51:02] I haven't been there in a few years, but it's...

S3

[1:51:04] It's in bad shape again?

[1:51:05] Oh, half the casinos have closed.

[1:51:07] Oh, yeah.

[1:51:08] I went to a horror con that was in the old Showboat Casino because there's nothing in the old Showboat Casino.

[1:51:17] So, you know...

[1:51:17] It was...

[1:51:19] Remember Burt Lancaster?

[1:51:21] He has a great line in the movie where he says something like,

[1:51:24] he's looking at the Atlantic Ocean and he says,

[1:51:27] yeah, the Atlantic Ocean...

[1:51:30] Yeah, it used to be great in the old days, the Atlantic Ocean.

Elliott Kalan

[1:51:36] I watch it and so much of the movie is them being like,

[1:51:40] ah, you should have been here for the old Atlantic City.

[1:51:42] It used to be better.

[1:51:43] And then I saw there's an Anthony Bourdain episode where he's in Atlantic City,

[1:51:46] shot, you know, 30 some odd years after this movie,

[1:51:49] and they're all saying the same thing.

[1:51:50] They're like, ah, you should have been here for the old Atlantic City.

[1:51:53] Like, nobody...

[1:51:54] Atlantic City, it's hard for me to believe there ever was a time it was not run down.

[1:51:58] That anyone ever looked at Atlantic City and said,

[1:52:00] I should base a board game on it.

[1:52:02] That seems crazy to me.

Dan McCoy

[1:52:05] Oh, that's funny.

[1:52:06] Guys, this has been really fun.

[1:52:08] Before we go, we should say, as we always do,

[1:52:10] check out MaximumFun.org, our network, our podcasting network.

[1:52:13] Not ours, but the one we're part of.

[1:52:16] For other great shows, tweet about us.

[1:52:19] Write reviews on iTunes.

[1:52:20] Preferably good ones.

[1:52:22] If you have bad things to say, why not just not take the effort?

Stuart Wellington

[1:52:25] Yeah.

[1:52:25] Check out The Last Drive-In on Shudder on Friday nights.

[1:52:30] Yeah.

[1:52:31] As a card-carrying Shudder subscriber.

[1:52:33] I also still have our marathons up.

S3

[1:52:35] That we did last summer.

[1:52:36] Oh, that's awesome.

[1:52:37] Thanksgiving and Christmas.

[1:52:39] Great.

Stuart Wellington

[1:52:40] Yeah, it's of the many streaming services I have, that's probably my favorite.

[1:52:46] And also the one my wife uses the least.

Dan McCoy

[1:52:51] Yeah, it's been a real pleasure.

[1:52:53] So we should sign off.

[1:52:55] I've been Dan McCoy.

[1:52:57] I'm Stuart Wellington.

Elliott Kalan

[1:52:59] I'm Elliot Kalin.

[1:53:00] Glad to have finally lived one of my dreams of talking about a dumb movie with Joe Bob Briggs.

[1:53:06] Very excited.

[1:53:07] Thanks, guys.

[1:53:09] Goodbye, everyone.

[1:53:10] Bye.

[1:53:14] I think my favorite was when Stuart realized that Nicolas Cage,

[1:53:20] who is also a running reference in the show,

[1:53:22] was the original castle freak in that he is a freak for buying castles.

[1:53:25] That was me.

[1:53:27] Stop giving away my best material.

Stuart Wellington

[1:53:29] I mean, I didn't say it, but when Dan said it,

[1:53:33] and then I realized it when his words hit my ears.

[1:53:36] That's what you mean, right, Elliot?

Elliott Kalan

[1:53:38] Yeah, yeah, that's what I meant.

[1:53:39] That's what I meant.

[1:53:40] All right, let's...

[1:53:41] Dan, I'm sorry.

[1:53:42] I guess I was just got, because of all the jokes you do on Twitter,

[1:53:44] I didn't think you were capable of writing a joke that good.

Dan McCoy

[1:53:50] Maximumfun.org

[1:53:51] Comedy and culture.

[1:53:52] Artists don't.

[1:53:53] Audience supporting.

Ep. #282 - Castle Freak

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