Ep. #296 - Slender Man

Dan McCoy

[0:00] On this episode, we discuss Slenderman.

Stuart Wellington

[0:04] Don't worry, the plot is a little... thin?

[0:30] Hey, everyone, and welcome to the Flophouse. I'm Dan McCoy.

Elliott Kalan

[0:39] Hey, I'm Stuart Wellington.

[0:41] And over here, it's Elliot Kalin, and I can see my co-hosts right in front of me in person.

[0:45] What's this all about?

Dan McCoy

[0:46] And what's the improved sound quality about? What's that all about?

Elliott Kalan

[0:49] Yeah, it's almost like we're in an actual recording studio.

[0:51] Stuart, are we in an actual recording studio?

Dan McCoy

[0:54] Elliot, yes, we are. Dan, where are we?

[0:56] We're in MaxFun HQ. This is recorded right after the day after our L.A. show.

[1:03] Normally when you're... sorry to interrupt.

Stuart Wellington

[1:05] Years from now.

[1:06] Sorry to interrupt, but normally when you...

Elliott Kalan

[1:08] There's suddenly more interruptions somehow, even though we're all in the same room.

[1:10] Seems like...

Stuart Wellington

[1:10] Sorry to interrupt, but when you're playing a game of Hot Potato Day, and you've got to keep moving that hot potato, I pass it to you.

[1:16] Okay, well, I was...

[1:18] It's fine.

[1:18] Dan, I'll just say it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19] MaxFun HQ or Max Headcroom, as it's also known.

Dan McCoy

[1:24] I forget what I was going to say.

[1:26] Oh, you know, we just thought, why not do it right for once?

[1:29] Okay, so we were recording a show in Los Angeles.

Elliott Kalan

[1:32] We did a live show last night, and so now we're recording it at MaxFun headquarters, because we're all in the same city, here in the beautiful American cement building, right next to beautiful MacArthur Park, where yesterday we saw a pair of ducks eating a baby, or whatever Jesse says at the end of the bullseye.

[1:48] Yep.

[1:49] Remember, every radio star has a signature start-off.

[1:53] Nope.

[1:53] It's the opposite of what he says, I guess.

[1:55] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:55] Okay, well, I guess that's good for the Venn diagram of people who listen to us and bullseye, but not the rest of the audience.

Elliott Kalan

[2:03] You're right, Dan.

[2:03] We're usually pretty good about making jokes only the general populace and no, will not feel excluded from.

Stuart Wellington

[2:09] Yeah, yeah.

[2:09] Only, you know, only the broadest of comedy.

[2:13] Guys, what month is it?

[2:15] I don't know, Dan, what month is it?

Dan McCoy

[2:17] It's so month.

[2:19] No, wait, is that what you're going for?

[2:20] It's October.

[2:22] Oh, okay.

[2:23] Where we watch horror movies for this podcast that we do.

[2:27] Well, because what do we do on this podcast, Dan?

Elliott Kalan

[2:29] I feel like you went to chapter three when you skipped chapter two.

[2:31] Well, you got to make sure the book's good, dude.

Dan McCoy

[2:34] I think somehow the professionalism of our environment is bringing our professionalism down.

Elliott Kalan

[2:40] I think so.

[2:40] Yeah, we keep waiting for the real hosts to come in.

[2:42] Speaking of hosts on this show, that's us.

[2:45] What do we do on this show as the hosts?

[2:50] Perfect.

[2:51] You threw it to me right when the cough came on.

[2:53] Jordan, do not cut that out.

[2:55] Please keep that in.

[2:56] So, Dan, take four, I think.

Dan McCoy

[2:58] What do we do on this podcast?

[3:00] We watch a bad movie and then we talk about it.

[3:02] Oh, yeah.

[3:02] And what month is it?

[3:04] It's October when we watch horror movies in honor of the spookiest month of the year.

Elliott Kalan

[3:09] Now, what makes October so spooky?

[3:11] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[3:12] I think it's because you just started going back to school and you got this mountain of

[3:16] homework and you also have to manage that with your extracurriculars.

Dan McCoy

[3:21] There are all those leaves you have to rake and they're dead.

[3:25] And so you have ghost leaves all around you.

Elliott Kalan

[3:27] Ghost leaves are hanging on the trees.

[3:29] Yeah.

[3:29] Of course, that makes sense.

[3:30] Also, you got to wear a jacket.

[3:32] And what's scarier than that?

[3:33] Having to wear a lightweight jacket.

Stuart Wellington

[3:35] That was my favorite thing about trick-or-treating in the Midwest was no matter what, I had to

[3:42] prepare for cold weather.

Dan McCoy

[3:45] Yeah.

[3:45] So you were a ghost wearing a jacket is what you're saying.

[3:47] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[3:48] I think I stole that from somebody on Twitter.

[3:50] I'm sorry.

[3:50] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[3:50] But the person on Twitter was doing, I hope unwittingly, a Jerry Seinfeld joke from about

[3:54] 15 years ago.

Stuart Wellington

[3:56] Okay.

[3:57] So yeah, like, you know, I stole from somebody.

Elliott Kalan

[4:01] Look, we're all stealing from somebody.

[4:03] Man stole fire from the gods when Prometheus gave it to us.

[4:07] I'm stealing from my local bank.

Stuart Wellington

[4:09] You're blaming...

[4:10] What?

[4:10] Hold on.

[4:12] Wait.

[4:13] So wait.

[4:13] Was Prometheus involved with your bank too?

[4:16] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[4:16] He banks with Prometheus Bank.

[4:18] Oh, wow.

[4:18] He takes gold from Zeus and gives it to customers.

Dan McCoy

[4:23] Stuart's been staring at his notes for a while.

[4:25] I think he's raring to go.

[4:26] Oh, no.

Stuart Wellington

[4:27] I'm just scrolling through Instagram right now.

[4:30] Another post from Dan, huh?

[4:31] Cool.

Elliott Kalan

[4:32] While he's hosting the show.

[4:33] Amazing.

[4:34] What?

[4:35] Okay, so...

Stuart Wellington

[4:36] So tonight, if you...

[4:38] Tonight.

[4:39] Tonight.

[4:39] I figured I'd set the mood because it's a spooky show.

Elliott Kalan

[4:42] Yeah.

[4:42] It's less scary if people know that it's 1.45 p.m. where we are right now.

Stuart Wellington

[4:48] So tonight, we're going to be talking about a little movie called Slender Man.

[4:52] A very little movie.

[4:56] It's skinny.

[4:59] Okay.

[5:00] Just kidding.

[5:00] It's a normal movie.

[5:02] But it, you know, does feel kind of slim.

[5:04] It's a normal movie.

Elliott Kalan

[5:06] Such as you might find in your local Redbox.

[5:08] It's not like those scenes in...

[5:11] What's that show with Julia Roberts where it's about the returning veterans?

[5:15] Homecoming?

[5:16] Homecoming.

[5:16] Where some of the scenes are shot in a narrow aspect ratio.

[5:20] It's not like that.

Stuart Wellington

[5:22] Wait, what?

[5:24] Forget it.

[5:24] Never mind.

[5:25] Okay.

[5:26] So...

[5:26] Not worth it.

[5:27] So, just to let everybody know up front that I watched this movie on a MacBook Slim in honor

[5:36] of the movie.

[5:38] Oh, man.

[5:38] Was that or because you were on a plane watching it?

[5:40] I was on a plane.

Elliott Kalan

[5:41] And you were on that plane with Fat Boy Slim.

[5:44] Yeah.

[5:44] Former recording star.

[5:45] I thought he was fucking in heaven.

Stuart Wellington

[5:47] Yeah.

[5:48] On a plane.

[5:48] Okay.

[5:49] Okay.

[5:50] So, the movie opens and we are introduced to a group of teen girls in small town USA.

[5:57] I am not sure if it's mentioned later, but is it...

[6:00] Are we in, like, New Jersey?

[6:02] Did they say Clifton a couple times?

Elliott Kalan

[6:04] I...

[6:04] Guys, I couldn't keep track of where the movie took place.

[6:08] I couldn't keep track of who the characters were or what their names were.

[6:10] The characters were pretty damn interchangeable.

Stuart Wellington

[6:12] Well, their names are Hallie, Chloe, Wren, like the bird, and Katie, like the person.

[6:19] It's not Wren, like the cartoon dog.

[6:21] They only...

[6:21] Not like Wren, the cartoon dog.

[6:23] They weren't like, guys, we gotta...

[6:24] Unless the subtitles were incorrect on my version of the movie.

Elliott Kalan

[6:26] No, I think...

[6:27] I don't remember any scenes where they're like, we should call up Slenderman.

[6:29] And he's like, no, why would you do that?

Stuart Wellington

[6:32] Oh, wow.

[6:33] I sort of...

[6:34] You've been working on that one in advance of the podcast?

Dan McCoy

[6:36] Not really.

[6:37] I told them apart by being like, okay, there's the one that's a little punkier than the others.

[6:43] Then there's the one who was played by one of the girls from Bunheads, starring Sutton Foster.

[6:48] I haven't seen Bunheads.

[6:48] And then there are the two others.

[6:50] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[6:51] I spent so much time being there being like, we gotta find Hallie.

[6:53] Where's Kelly?

[6:54] I was like, wait, I thought that was Kelly.

[6:56] Hold on a second.

[6:57] Which one is Wren?

[6:58] I just couldn't...

[6:59] It took me a long time to get their names straight.

Stuart Wellington

[7:01] Yep.

[7:01] That's when the nightmare has completely engulfed you.

[7:05] We see our friends walking through school.

[7:09] They're our friends?

[7:10] Yeah.

[7:11] They're our friends immediately.

[7:12] They're great.

[7:13] So they're walking through school and they're having that conversation that like all teen kids have in this kind of movie when you know they're doomed.

[7:20] Where they're like, we're going to live forever.

[7:22] I think their game is, if you could be any age forever, what age would you be?

[7:27] And of course, they're like, I would be 21 or I'd be 30.

[7:31] And then one of them says, I'd be the age we are right now.

[7:36] That allows you to assume what age they're talking about.

[7:40] And then Bruce Springsteen pops in and plays Glory Days.

[7:43] They bump into a group of teen boys that are kind of like the Omega to their Alpha.

[7:48] They're the exact pairings of each of them.

Dan McCoy

[7:51] And they, unless I'm wrong, basically do not reappear in the movie.

[7:55] Like they pop in.

[7:56] Well, Tom shows back up.

Elliott Kalan

[7:57] Tom is as rich a secondary character as exists in this film.

[8:03] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[8:03] Yeah.

[8:03] I'm such a fan.

[8:04] I joined the Tom Tom Club.

[8:06] Okay.

[8:06] Well, you're a genius of love.

Elliott Kalan

[8:08] How do you become a member of the Tom Tom Club?

Stuart Wellington

[8:11] Well, you got to collect a whole bunch of box tops and Marlboro Miles and you send them in.

Elliott Kalan

[8:16] It helps if you have a pretty bitter relationship with David Byrne.

Stuart Wellington

[8:20] So these teen boys, we get a little bit of like, you know, friendly verbal sparring.

Elliott Kalan

[8:26] It's basically a non-singing version of the Atop That scene in Teen Wish.

[8:30] Exactly.

Stuart Wellington

[8:30] And Hallie, our heroine, is asking Tom about what they're going to be doing later.

[8:36] And he's like, it's a secret.

[8:38] And if I told you the secret, I could tell it to you, but I'd have to kill you.

[8:42] And I'm like, that's a weird thing to say when you consider this is a movie about people seeing a secret thing and getting killed.

[8:48] I don't know that the characters know that at this point, though.

[8:50] I mean, it's similar.

[8:51] It's that kind of irony where like, or it's like when the narrative, the metaphor, the narrative kind of bleeds into the story itself.

[8:59] Like in the opening chapter of Ulysses, where Buck Mulligan is holding this like silver cigarette case and there's an emerald in the middle of it.

[9:07] And it's a symbol of like this English man holding Ireland in the palm of his hand.

[9:12] You know what I'm talking about.

[9:13] Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[9:14] Sure.

[9:14] Dan, I've never read Ulysses.

[9:16] Why would you?

[9:17] I don't know.

Elliott Kalan

[9:18] I heard it's pretty good.

[9:19] Stuart, I heard there's a guy in it who has a cigarette case.

[9:21] That sounds pretty good.

[9:22] And his name's Buck Mulligan.

Stuart Wellington

[9:24] Yeah, so he's like a porn star probably.

[9:26] Probably.

[9:26] Or a famous golfer.

[9:28] I mean, I think he begins like wearing a bathrobe.

[9:31] Like he opens the, whatever.

[9:32] Okay.

[9:33] Okay, Dan, you know I love stories about people who wear bathrobes.

Elliott Kalan

[9:36] That's why I've never been a reader of Playboy, but I followed Hugh Hefner's exploits because I admire that he always wore a bathrobe all the time.

Stuart Wellington

[9:43] Comfort first.

[9:44] We get some scenes of home life.

[9:46] Hallie's parents are concerned about, we get some like concerns about teen pregnancy or teen partying.

Elliott Kalan

[9:53] Like in many movies, their dining room table is extremely dimly lit, and they only have one light that's on above the table.

[10:01] The kitchen, that I assume is next to the dining room area, is completely dark.

[10:05] As if they have everything they need on the table, and they will not need to get up and get anything from the kitchen.

[10:11] Which, I don't know about you guys, is a very unrealistic depiction of dinner in my book.

Stuart Wellington

[10:14] I feel like any moment a naked Axl Rose could wander in off of the set of O's that don't cry.

[10:22] Okay, so we're also introduced to Hallie's younger sister, Lizzie, who clearly wants to join in with the older girls who only seem slightly older than she is.

Elliott Kalan

[10:34] I actually thought they were the same age for a little bit.

Dan McCoy

[10:35] And Wren's the one who kind of like encourages us a little bit.

[10:38] I mean like it's not her sister, but she's like, yeah, you're, you know, she wants to be the cool like older friend.

[10:44] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[10:45] And Wren and all of our friends, I spent the whole time trying to remember what other things that I've seen these young women in.

[10:55] And they've all been in a number of other things.

[10:56] Sure, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[10:57] I want to say in this early going, I mean there are a few things I liked about this movie to spoil it, like, which are surrounded by like some of the most sort of generic horror movie filmmaking.

Elliott Kalan

[11:09] I mean this movie does feel like it is the horror movie demo that comes with your DVD player.

[11:15] Where it's like, does your TV work for horror?

[11:17] Horror?

[11:18] Does it work for horror also?

[11:19] Does it work for horror?

[11:21] Because let's try it out with this disc.

[11:23] Yeah, I guess it meets the minimum national requirements for horror.

Dan McCoy

[11:25] But in these early scenes, I kind of liked, despite the fact that the movie's very bad at differentiating these characters, like we said, I did feel like the movie had this kind of weird semi-verite mumblecore thing going on where like it was shot in a slightly different way, like following this kid than a generic teen.

Elliott Kalan

[11:46] It's a very quiet, subdued.

[11:47] It's like if Eighth Grade was a horror movie at times, like a quiet, subdued horror, as opposed to like, guys, we've got to do this thing.

[11:55] Yeah.

[11:55] Come on, Hallie.

[11:56] That would be crazy.

Dan McCoy

[11:57] Yeah, it's not super glossy and fake.

[11:59] Like it seems like maybe some of the –

Elliott Kalan

[12:00] It feels pretty fake.

Dan McCoy

[12:02] Well, but it seems like some of the dialogue might be like semi-improvised and like they have like a good rapport with it.

[12:08] I'm looking for gems in the chaff, but –

[12:13] Gems in the – who threw those gems in the chaff?

[12:16] I'm just saying that –

[12:18] Dan, you're working on some sort of farming mind?

[12:20] If the script had been better, this style –

Stuart Wellington

[12:23] Well, he stole the gems from the Duke's men.

[12:27] He's going to return from them later.

Dan McCoy

[12:29] I'm just saying if the script had been better, this style of doing a horror movie would have been interesting.

[12:33] It's something that I haven't really seen for this kind of teen horror movie.

Elliott Kalan

[12:35] Yeah, like a teen mumblecore horror movie.

[12:37] Yeah.

[12:38] Whereas – but there's just not – there's nothing really going on.

[12:40] So at times – so what should have been like a kind of endearing subtlety becomes like, uh, so is this a movie?

[12:48] What happens next?

[12:49] I'm not sure.

[12:50] It's like the boyhood of horror movies.

[12:52] We're like, uh, am I – so is this a scene or like – I don't understand.

Dan McCoy

[12:57] Yeah.

[12:57] I agree with you about boyhood, but we are not endearing ourselves to like the larger audience right now.

Elliott Kalan

[13:03] Hey, I don't want to be popular.

[13:05] I just want to be me, but I also want to be popular.

[13:07] Guys, do I have to like boyhood to be liked?

[13:09] It's great.

[13:09] I love it, I guess.

[13:10] I don't think so.

[13:11] No, no.

[13:11] Everybody's talking about it all the time, according to Dan.

Stuart Wellington

[13:13] People are big fans of stunt casting and Ethan Hawke performance.

[13:17] Well, yeah.

[13:17] I mean –

[13:17] I guess I am a fan of Ethan Hawke performances.

Elliott Kalan

[13:19] Ethan Hawke and his stunt man.

[13:20] Whoever they cast in that part.

[13:22] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[13:24] So –

[13:24] So what are they going to do when they hang out?

[13:25] So our teens are all hanging out.

[13:26] They're, of course, drinking.

[13:29] They're staying at Katie's house.

[13:30] Katie's dad is passed out drunk upstairs.

[13:33] They're goofing around, looking at stuff on the old internet.

[13:37] They decide to be like that group of boys because they heard a rumor.

[13:40] Those boys are going out into the woods and they're summoning a guy named Slenderman.

[13:45] And this is not Hiram Slenderman.

[13:48] No.

Elliott Kalan

[13:49] The way I assume is a tailor.

Stuart Wellington

[13:51] Yep.

[13:51] So they –

Elliott Kalan

[13:52] Actually, his name would be like Hiram Slenderman, not Hiram.

Stuart Wellington

[13:54] So they go to a website and they –

[13:58] They just Google Slenderman, right?

[14:00] I do.

[14:00] Yeah, and I kind of like that the website looks like kind of crappy like an actual website.

[14:05] It's not like, I don't know, what, Swordfish?

[14:07] Where you're like, let me get onto the internet and then the lights are flashing across their chrome faces.

[14:15] So they –

[14:16] Yeah, they don't have like four like digital avatars that are floating through the cyberspace.

Dan McCoy

[14:23] It's a bunch of cubes they have to connect to do something.

Elliott Kalan

[14:26] You've got to collect the 14 digital keys to unlock the Slenderman portal.

Stuart Wellington

[14:30] So they –

[14:31] Yeah, so they're looking at this thing and, you know, they see a couple people on this forum mentioning it.

[14:36] And then there's just a link that says summon him.

[14:39] So they're like, fuck it, let's click this link.

[14:41] And it leads them to a video, which I'm assuming was uploaded by Slenderman.

[14:47] And they watch a video that gives them some instructions.

[14:50] They have to listen for bells.

[14:51] They have to close their eyes.

[14:53] Your usual urban legend crap.

[14:55] And the – and then when they open their eyes, their eyeballs are bombarded with a series of, you know, kind of cliched flashing images.

[15:03] Ringu type stuff, yeah.

[15:04] Now should – I'm sorry.

Elliott Kalan

[15:05] Should we take a – should we pause for a moment?

[15:07] Let's go on a tangent about Slenderman.

Dan McCoy

[15:08] Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

[15:10] Let's talk about this Slenderman fellow.

[15:12] Slenderman is a slender read.

[15:12] Not an original creation for this movie.

[15:16] Well, an original creation of the internet, a new urban legend, a new –

[15:24] Like a flying spaghetti monster type thing?

Elliott Kalan

[15:26] Yeah.

[15:27] It's a digital urban legend.

[15:28] It feels like someone was going out of their way to create a Jersey Devil or – what's the –

[15:35] Micah?

[15:35] The one that movie just came out about.

[15:37] That's a Latin American evil spirit.

[15:40] Curse of Yairona?

[15:42] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[15:43] Like they wanted to – they're like much – the internet, let's just face it.

Stuart Wellington

[15:46] Or like a Mothman or – does it fall under the subheading creepypasta?

[15:51] Yeah, it does.

Elliott Kalan

[15:52] Yeah, let's say that.

[15:53] It does.

[15:53] The internet thinks it can do anything better than real life does.

[15:57] And so they're like, why should we make do with all these analog cryptids and analog urban legends that suck

[16:02] when we can have Slenderman, an all-original, digital, 21st century urban legend who is a very thin guy in a business suit,

[16:11] which is frankly what loses it for me.

[16:13] The idea that he's a monster from another dimension or whatever but he wears a suit is stupid.

[16:18] That it's like, oh, he's – look, he's got to look real cool so that like a hipster can dress up like him in a skinny suit.

[16:26] He has no face and at times he seems to have a tree body or a tarantula body.

[16:30] But anyway, he's just like a tall, thin guy in a – he's basically David Bowie.

[16:33] He's a tall, thin guy in a suit who steals children.

[16:35] He's David Bowie.

[16:36] If David Bowie didn't have a face, he'd be Slenderman.

Dan McCoy

[16:39] Just like David Bowie.

[16:39] Let's just say though that the movie doesn't seem to quite figure out what Slenderman is.

[16:45] And I think that that is partly kind of a symptom of the internet Slenderman, which is this crowdsourced story.

[16:53] So like everyone out there has kind of a – who has written a Slenderman thing kind of does a different thing with Slenderman.

Elliott Kalan

[16:58] They're trying to create immediately what usually takes decades or centuries.

[17:05] You have a character like the Jersey Devil.

[17:08] Doesn't exist.

[17:08] I'm from New Jersey.

[17:09] The only real Jersey Devil is, of course, Bruce Springsteen.

[17:12] Sorry, guys.

[17:13] Oh, wow.

[17:14] He's driven many to their doom with his powerful music and his promises of riches beyond the Garden State.

Stuart Wellington

[17:21] Yeah, the promise that you can be a sad guy in a bar and everybody else will still think you're pretty cool.

Elliott Kalan

[17:26] Exactly, when in reality they don't.

[17:28] So the Jersey Devil is this creature that has existed in legend for a very long time, probably not as long as the legend is said to be.

[17:36] But it has accreted over many years both a solidity in terms of the landscape, the mental landscape of the state, but also like lots of weird details and lots of regional differences and things like that.

[17:48] But they kind of arose semi-organically from people hearing the story and then remembering it wrong or whatever, telling their children about it.

[17:55] Where with Slenderman they're kind of like, let's do all that but really fast.

[17:58] Yeah.

[17:59] Yeah, so.

[17:59] Let's fake it.

[18:00] And so, yeah, it comes off as kind of a mushy character.

Dan McCoy

[18:03] And his thing, like, I mean, like.

Elliott Kalan

[18:05] There is a textbook about him in the movie.

[18:07] Yeah.

[18:08] About bioelectricity and whatever.

[18:10] We'll get to that, I guess.

[18:11] I mean, in so much as anyone.

Dan McCoy

[18:12] Yeah, we're going to get to a textbook about bioelectricity.

[18:15] In so much as anyone agrees about Slenderman, the kind of basic parameters is he mostly targets children.

[18:22] He sort of, he either spirits them away or drives them mad.

[18:26] And his motives are deliberately left vague.

Elliott Kalan

[18:30] So in the movie it's similar.

[18:32] They know that he either takes you, drives you mad, or kills you.

[18:37] Why?

[18:38] Bum, bum, bum.

[18:39] Because these are young Americans, young Americans.

[18:43] It's David Bowie, guys.

Dan McCoy

[18:44] And I just, like, very quickly I want to touch on something.

Elliott Kalan

[18:46] And I'll say this, he does this to young Americans because he's afraid of Americans.

[18:50] Oh, yeah.

[18:50] David Bowie.

[18:51] Yep.

[18:52] I wanted to touch.

[18:53] Ground control to Slenderman.

[18:55] Oh, yeah.

[18:56] You're taking all the kids.

[18:59] Uh-huh, yeah.

[18:59] But why do you wear a necktie if you're a monster?

[19:04] Mm-hmm.

[19:04] How do you tie that necktie with those fingers?

Stuart Wellington

[19:10] I mean, I think he would be extra good at it because he's got these super long.

[19:14] Stuart, but he can't see in the mirror.

Dan McCoy

[19:15] He doesn't have eyes.

[19:15] I can't see the window.

[19:18] How is our engineer, Jordan, reacting to Elliot's singing?

[19:22] She's loving it, I think.

[19:23] Oh, wow.

[19:23] She's filling out her last will and testament.

Elliott Kalan

[19:25] That says give everything to Elliot.

Dan McCoy

[19:27] No, I wanted to say, too, like, I just quickly want to touch on this as quickly as possible

[19:32] and move on.

[19:34] Content warning.

[19:35] So there was a stabbing related to Slenderman where one young girl stabbed another young

[19:40] girl several times.

[19:42] They had been sort of obsessed with this character.

[19:44] And this movie came out four years after that.

[19:47] And a lot of people were kind of, like, upset that this movie came out because of this real

[19:51] life violent stabbing.

[19:53] And I did a little reading on the production of this movie.

[19:57] And this movie was sort of cut down to get a PG-13 rating.

[20:01] But reading between the lines, it seemed like a lot of stuff was maybe cut out, too, so as

[20:06] not to, like, evoke that too much.

[20:09] And so that is also part of why this movie feels so weirdly disjointed and things don't seem to

[20:14] follow other things.

Elliott Kalan

[20:15] So you're saying it would be tasteless of me to now do my Slenderman who sold the world

[20:19] parody?

[20:20] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[20:22] Wow.

[20:22] Yeah.

[20:23] That's a lot of work to get Elliot to stop singing.

[20:25] Yeah.

[20:26] Okay.

[20:26] Yeah.

[20:27] I mean, that's obviously fucked up.

[20:29] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[20:29] So they, so, yeah.

[20:30] And it's tasteless of the filmmakers to, maybe if they intended to exploit that.

Dan McCoy

[20:35] I didn't want to dwell on it, but I feel like it's worth just mentioning.

Elliott Kalan

[20:38] But then again, Fyodor Dostoevsky wrote a novel that was inspired by a real murder.

[20:42] Is he exploitative?

[20:44] Probably.

[20:45] Okay.

[20:45] Yeah.

[20:45] Maybe.

[20:47] I mean, he got his just desserts.

[20:48] He's dead now.

Stuart Wellington

[20:50] The curse of that.

[20:52] Just because it happened a long time ago doesn't mean it's not bad.

[20:55] Yeah.

[20:55] Good point.

[20:56] Good point.

[20:57] Well, that actually sheds a little bit of light onto the most likely tacked on monologue

[21:02] at the end of the movie, but we'll get to that.

[21:03] So they watch this video and then they're like, oh, that was weird or whatever.

[21:07] Let's watch a movie.

[21:08] And I'm like, yeah, let's watch a movie.

[21:11] But nope, we don't get to see it.

[21:12] They put it on Slender Man.

[21:13] Instead, we get a time jump one week later.

[21:17] All the girls have been having nightmares.

[21:20] They're all kind of like, their nightmare fantasies are kind of starting to bleed into their real life.

[21:28] They go on a school trip to a historic cemetery in Clifton.

Dan McCoy

[21:32] Because it's Shocktober for school, I guess.

[21:34] Yep.

[21:34] Yeah.

[21:36] My ghoul friend was watching this and she was like-

Elliott Kalan

[21:39] I can't believe that she lets you call her your ghoul friend.

Dan McCoy

[21:42] She encouraged it.

[21:43] She was like, what kind of school trip is just to a cemetery?

[21:51] She was asking me what school trips I took.

Stuart Wellington

[21:53] I'm like, mostly the science museum.

Elliott Kalan

[21:56] I mean, if it's a historic cemetery and the town founders are buried there.

Stuart Wellington

[22:00] Yeah, if they take you to a cemetery and they're like, this is the cemetery that they shot Return of the Living Dead at.

[22:06] I'd be like, awesome.

[22:07] Thanks, teach.

[22:08] Cool.

[22:08] Otherwise, I'd have to learn about Return of the Living Dead on the streets.

[22:12] Then me and my buddy Chainsaw would go back to summer school.

[22:16] Okay.

[22:16] So, Katie, one of our friends, goes missing suddenly.

[22:24] It's a kind of interesting edit because all of a sudden, like, she's looking off into the woods and then all of a sudden we flash forward to later in the day with, like, the police looking for this missing girl.

Elliott Kalan

[22:36] It's very confusing.

[22:37] It's like there's a little touch of Picnic at Hanging Rock there.

[22:39] Not enough to make it impressive, but it's like for a moment you're like, wait, what happened?

[22:43] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[22:43] I mean, on some level I appreciate.

[22:45] Yeah.

[22:46] It, you know, kept me on my toes.

[22:48] So, good on you, movie.

[22:50] Your slender toes.

[22:51] So, shortly afterwards, her drunk father scares Hallie by breaking into her home at night while she and her sister Lizzie are alone.

[23:03] He breaks into their home while very drunk and blames Hallie for involving his daughter in the occult.

[23:12] It's a kind of a weird scene to see this, like, drunk grown-up assaulting these two young women.

[23:16] But I was also like, how does he know that that happened?

Elliott Kalan

[23:19] Well, because when they eventually go to her room, it's full of occult stuff.

[23:22] No, it's full of evidence.

[23:24] It's an evidence bedroom.

Dan McCoy

[23:25] Hey, guys, I just realized we're sort of involving Hallie in Shocktober.

Elliott Kalan

[23:31] By having a character named Hallie in the movie?

Dan McCoy

[23:33] I just want to say, like...

Elliott Kalan

[23:35] And so she finally saw a ghost.

[23:36] Good on you, Hallie.

[23:37] Give it a slender man.

[23:38] If Slender Man counts a ghost, I don't know.

[23:40] I know that a lot of listeners are probably...

[23:41] Ghost adjacent.

Dan McCoy

[23:42] A lot of listeners are probably missing Hallie.

[23:45] She was very busy for a while being in charge of Wyatt's show.

[23:49] And then, I think it's fine to say she had a kid, so she's very busy now.

[23:53] But we hope to have her back.

Elliott Kalan

[23:55] She was pregnant and gave birth.

[23:56] It's not like a kid was...

[23:57] It's not a baby boom type situation.

[23:59] No, a spork.

[23:59] Where a child was just dropped in her lap.

Dan McCoy

[24:01] Yeah, but like, I just...

[24:02] You know, we hope to have her back.

[24:04] But it's harder than in the past.

Stuart Wellington

[24:07] So, thanks for that digression.

[24:10] No, that's good.

[24:11] Well, I'm joking.

Elliott Kalan

[24:12] It's good that our listeners know that the Hallie in the movie is not the Hallie who has been on this show.

[24:15] Yeah.

[24:16] Nor is it Hallie Berry.

[24:17] No.

[24:17] Who has also been mentioned on this show a few times.

[24:20] Nor is it Hallie's Comet, which is not a person, but instead a big ball of ice that flies through space.

[24:26] Hmm.

[24:27] Okay.

[24:28] Nor is it Layal.

[24:29] Just my notes.

[24:29] The former restaurant home of the late Anthony Bourdain.

[24:32] Do you have a chart that explains this?

Dan McCoy

[24:34] I do.

Elliott Kalan

[24:35] Let me pull it out here.

[24:36] Now, these are the Halls of Medicine.

[24:37] They're not actual Halls.

[24:39] Halls of Medicine.

Dan McCoy

[24:40] Let me delete all...

[24:41] Now, are the Halls of Medicine the cough drops?

Elliott Kalan

[24:43] Yes, that's exactly.

[24:45] It's a misuse of the word Halls.

[24:46] Okay.

[24:47] Now, here's Arsenio Hall, famous late night host, interviewed Jason once.

[24:51] It didn't go that good.

[24:54] I, uh...

[24:55] Now, here's Arch Hall Sr. and Jr., the director and star of the movie Ega.

[25:01] Yeah, I guess under...

[25:02] And, of course, here's Anthony Michael Hall, who is, of course, the son of Anthony.

[25:06] Anthony Hall, I assume.

[25:07] I don't know how names work.

Stuart Wellington

[25:08] Under, uh...

[25:10] Under goofs, I guess I should just remove the...

[25:13] Hallie's Comet Isn't a Teenager.

[25:17] Incorrectly regarded as goofs.

[25:19] Yeah.

[25:19] Incorrectly, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[25:20] No, an unfilmed prologue explains that she began life as a comet.

[25:24] It took human form to learn what life is like.

Stuart Wellington

[25:27] Splashed down to Earth.

[25:27] Yeah.

[25:28] So, uh...

[25:29] After this scary moment with their friend's drunken father, our remaining teens decide to become amateur detectives.

[25:37] And they, uh...

[25:39] Trick her father into, uh...

[25:41] Being distracted.

[25:42] Like, he's asleep on the couch, and they wake him up to distract him so they can break in.

[25:47] It's like, why'd they have to wake him up?

[25:49] They could have just broke in.

[25:50] So they break in and sneak into their friend's room, and they're like, oh, the...

[25:55] Where's her laptop?

[25:56] The police must have taken it for evidence.

[25:58] And instead, there's a whole bunch of drawings of Slender Man strewn about.

[26:01] And then they just find her laptop hidden.

[26:03] So it appears like the police took nothing for evidence.

Elliott Kalan

[26:07] And also that the movie is wasting our time.

[26:10] Yeah.

[26:11] Unless it's supposed to be that she hid her computer from everybody else, but it's just a waste.

Dan McCoy

[26:15] I would argue that the entire length of the movie is wasting our time.

Elliott Kalan

[26:18] Now, Dan, you're skipping the final judgments.

Dan McCoy

[26:21] I mean, it's not wasting our time because we've made sort of a business out of this, but other listeners...

Elliott Kalan

[26:26] Listeners, if you're not watching this movie in order to record a podcast that you make a little bit of money from, I would say maybe don't bother watching it.

[26:34] But that's for final judgments.

[26:35] Maybe Slender Man will change our minds.

Stuart Wellington

[26:37] Now, one thing I do like about Slender Man is that...

[26:40] The movie or the man?

[26:42] He's a generous lover.

[26:43] The man.

[26:43] Yeah.

[26:44] I mean, we're going to go into the pros column now.

[26:47] There's some obvious cons.

[26:48] We'll get to those.

[26:49] But under pros, I like when somebody's kind of been bitten by the Slender Man bug.

[26:54] They immediately develop a little taste for some artwork.

[26:58] Oh, yeah.

[26:58] And they begin scritching and scratching like mad.

Dan McCoy

[27:01] They discover a previously unknown talent.

Stuart Wellington

[27:03] They should have called this movie Slender Muse.

[27:05] And it feels kind of weird because you would think with this like modern techno savvy type bad guy, they would be making all these pictures of him in what, CAD?

[27:17] Yeah, yeah.

[27:17] Made out of emojis and stuff.

Elliott Kalan

[27:19] Yeah.

[27:20] No, but it's good old fashioned pen on paper.

[27:22] Now, Dan, let's...

[27:23] Okay, let's...

[27:23] How would you pitch the movie?

[27:25] It's Titanic.

[27:26] Yeah.

[27:26] But instead of Kate Winslet, it's Slender Man.

[27:29] And he inspires Leonardo DiCaprio to draw him like one of his French girls.

[27:33] But Slender Man, I don't think, can take his suit off.

Dan McCoy

[27:35] It's kind of hard also, I think...

[27:37] Well, I mean, I was going to say it's hard to draw Slender Man because he's got that sort of faceless quality.

[27:42] It's very easy to draw.

[27:43] Easy to draw, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[27:44] Yeah, the hardest thing to draw is the human face.

[27:46] Well, the hands.

[27:47] If you've tried to draw hands.

[27:48] The feet.

[27:49] I think feet are even harder to draw than hands.

Dan McCoy

[27:50] Feet are, yeah, to make it look like you're actually standing on something.

Elliott Kalan

[27:53] And the penis is hard to draw without it looking goofy.

[27:55] Let's just say the hardest thing to draw is the human penis.

Dan McCoy

[27:57] You know, I was doing life drawing for a while.

[28:00] Okay.

[28:01] And I showed my progress to, like, friends.

[28:04] And they're like, wow, you really emphasize the female nipples and the male penis on these drawings.

[28:10] I'm like, not intentionally.

Elliott Kalan

[28:12] No, no, you have to have life drawing models with very pronounced nipples and penis.

Stuart Wellington

[28:15] Yeah, I mean, you want to show respect to your muse.

Elliott Kalan

[28:19] They're bearing it all.

[28:20] I might as well, you know.

[28:21] Yeah.

[28:22] Also, do the same.

[28:24] And that's why you were kicked out of that life drawing class for drawing in the nude.

Stuart Wellington

[28:27] To this day, one of my favorite life drawing moments was when, because we went to a small school.

[28:32] Oh, come on, Stuart.

Dan McCoy

[28:34] Oh, oh, oh.

[28:35] I know where this is headed, but you can go.

Stuart Wellington

[28:36] No, it's fine, Dan.

[28:38] I won't have a digression.

[28:40] I'll just stick to the plot like you always tell me to do.

Dan McCoy

[28:43] I feel like it's insulting to me.

[28:44] That's the reason I'm.

Stuart Wellington

[28:45] No, it was a story about how like every, because we knew everybody in our class.

[28:51] That's right.

[28:51] And my roommate like showed up from, showed up to class one morning, very hungover.

[29:00] And a friend of ours, or at least an acquaintance of ours who was the model, started posing for gestures.

[29:06] And his first pose was this like crazy one that like ended up spreading his butt.

[29:12] And my buddy's just like, ugh, left for the rest of the morning.

[29:18] Oh, boy.

Elliott Kalan

[29:18] Now, here's something.

[29:18] I've never been in a real life drawing class.

[29:20] So is it like in the TV where they walk out wearing the flimsiest of robes?

[29:24] Yeah.

[29:25] Just like the thinnest of kimonos?

[29:27] Well, I'm not.

Dan McCoy

[29:27] Well, yeah.

[29:28] A lot of them.

Elliott Kalan

[29:29] It seems like it doesn't give you a lot of coverage.

Dan McCoy

[29:31] Well, I mean, you're going to be nude in a second.

[29:33] Yeah, but you want to make it a big reveal.

[29:34] I don't think you understand what the model's job is.

Elliott Kalan

[29:37] I would come out in kind of like a Mysterio-style cape that covered my whole body.

[29:41] And then I'd fling it back.

Stuart Wellington

[29:42] What if you had a couple smoke machines and you started playing, y'all ready for this?

[29:46] Yeah, yeah.

[29:46] Then I'd play that.

[29:47] You'd fling it back and you'd be wearing a sweatsuit underneath.

[29:50] And underneath, you'd be wearing a full body like green man suit.

Elliott Kalan

[29:54] I'd keep taking these things off.

[29:55] And each time I'd be like, okay, now you'll get to see it.

[29:57] And then I'd be wearing clothes or anything.

[29:59] I'd go, uh, uh.

Stuart Wellington

[30:00] And then the teacher's like, class is over.

[30:02] It took too long.

[30:03] $50, please.

[30:04] Yeah.

[30:05] Okay.

[30:05] So, uh, we, oh man.

[30:09] So they start to follow up.

Elliott Kalan

[30:11] They found her laptop.

Stuart Wellington

[30:12] They start following up on her internet history.

[30:14] They find a website that Katie was visiting.

[30:17] They find a whole bunch of pretty well edited and shot little Slenderman videos, right?

Elliott Kalan

[30:22] Yeah, yeah.

[30:23] They literally looked like a good piece of work of professional people trying to make amateur Slenderman videos.

Stuart Wellington

[30:29] They're reading all the comments on there.

[30:33] And one of the girls says, it's like they're comparing experiences.

[30:37] It's like, yeah, no shit.

[30:38] That's exactly what they're doing.

[30:40] Um, so they get, uh, they end up, uh, interacting with an online pal of Katie's, uh, who goes by the handle Alley Cat.

[30:48] Um, and Alley Cat kind of tries to like sketch out, uh, when they, when they suggest their friend Katie has been taken.

[30:55] Alley Cat sketches out some of what they might have to do in order to get their friend back, which I believe they interpret as you have to give up or give him something they love.

Elliott Kalan

[31:05] Yeah, something that they cherish they're going to have to give up in exchange for their friend.

[31:09] Wait, was it Kelly or Hallie?

[31:11] Uh, who that disappeared?

[31:12] Who disappeared?

[31:13] Katie.

Stuart Wellington

[31:14] It's Hallie is our lead.

[31:17] Okay.

[31:17] Hallie plus Hallie.

Elliott Kalan

[31:19] I'm just saying maybe their names shouldn't have been like Katie, Hallie, Mikey, Jenny, Jimmy, Tony.

[31:26] Jeffy from Family Circus.

[31:27] Yeah, little Jeffy.

[31:28] Uh, baby Sinclair.

Stuart Wellington

[31:31] I thought you were going to go, babe big in the city.

[31:34] Yeah, babe big in the city.

[31:36] Okay.

[31:37] Okay.

[31:38] So, um, so they end up going out of the woods and they, uh, they are like give up things they love, which involves like breaking pottery and ripping.

[31:49] And they're like picking up, uh, photos.

Elliott Kalan

[31:50] It's basically their plan is like they got to go into the woods, into the woods to get our friend, into the woods to help the Slenderman into the woods and home before dark.

[31:59] Okay.

[32:00] I love it.

[32:02] So they all.

[32:02] I'm finally on Dan's wavelength.

Stuart Wellington

[32:04] They all put on their blindfolds, uh, the sounds of the forest go away and then sounds of Slenderman come up.

[32:11] And of course.

Dan McCoy

[32:12] That was his album, Sounds of Slenderman.

[32:14] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[32:15] And the rule is that they.

[32:16] Slenderman and Garfunkel.

[32:18] The rule is that like Slenderman was going to show up and they couldn't look at him or else they'll go crazy.

[32:24] So like very quickly, Chloe's like, uh, what's going on?

[32:28] We shouldn't be doing this.

[32:29] And then takes her blindfold off, sees a Slenderman, runs away, freaks out.

[32:33] And she was waiting for maybe 15 seconds.

[32:35] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[32:36] She, she, she gave up pretty quickly.

[32:38] These millennials, am I right?

Stuart Wellington

[32:39] But what's strange is like, this is the kind of scene that a horror filmmaker would be so excited to be like, great.

[32:47] This is the first real encounter with Slenderman.

[32:50] I can take my time and build up the tension here.

[32:53] I can build up the isolation and build up that fear of like not being able to do anything while this like otherworldly force might be closing in on our heroes.

[33:03] But instead he's like, nope, we're done.

[33:05] Let's move on.

Elliott Kalan

[33:06] I want to see his version.

[33:07] This, I'm assuming the director's a him.

[33:09] Maybe it's not.

[33:09] This director's version of House of the Devil where Tom Noonan leaves the babysitter behind and the babysitter is immediately like, who else is in the house?

[33:17] Come on.

[33:17] And then the bad guys come back and they're like, we're here too.

Dan McCoy

[33:20] It is a him.

[33:21] I looked him up.

[33:21] He was, he also directed that movie, The Losers.

[33:24] And Stomp the Yard.

[33:25] With a younger Chris Evans and what's his face?

[33:28] The guy who looks like Javier Bardem but isn't.

[33:31] Oh, Javier Bardem Jr.

[33:32] The American Javier Bardem.

[33:34] He was in Watchmen.

[33:35] Faux-VR Bardem.

[33:37] Jeffrey Dean Morgan?

[33:38] Yeah, that's it.

[33:40] It's an okay little action movie.

[33:42] Not great, but fun.

Stuart Wellington

[33:43] Wasn't Jeffrey Dean Morgan one of the Mick-somethings in Grey's Anatomy?

[33:48] Yes.

[33:49] Was he Mick Steamy?

Dan McCoy

[33:50] Yeah, he might be.

Stuart Wellington

[33:51] Or Dreamy.

[33:52] Or Smokey.

Elliott Kalan

[33:52] No, Mick Dreamy is Patrick Dempsey.

[33:54] Yeah.

[33:55] Who is one of the characters in this movie since his name ends in E.

[33:57] Now, who's Mick Creamy?

[33:59] Katie, Halle, Dempsey.

[34:00] Mick Creamy?

[34:01] Yeah.

[34:01] Oh, that's Dr. Twinkie.

[34:05] They're like, Dr. Twinkie, you'll lose your license for this.

[34:08] And he's like, I'll outlast all of you.

[34:10] I'm full of preservatives.

Stuart Wellington

[34:12] So, Wren and Halle find their friend Chloe.

[34:18] Stimpy.

[34:19] Shaken in the woods.

[34:21] Injured from smashing into a tree while stumbling about in the dark.

[34:25] And then, like, life kind of moves on.

[34:29] We see a little bit of Chloe.

[34:32] Chloe has a...

[34:33] As I said, she's shaken by her experiences with Slenderman.

[34:36] And then he visits her in her home.

[34:39] And, like, he calls her on the phone.

[34:42] And she's like, it's this kind of weird scene.

[34:43] It's a spooky video call, yeah.

[34:45] And then...

Elliott Kalan

[34:45] He's choking her.

[34:46] And then she looks in the mirror.

[34:47] She's choking herself.

[34:49] Screams.

[34:49] Which she should not be able to do if she's choking herself well.

[34:52] Because the choking should stop air from entering her windpipe.

[34:55] She needs that air to scream.

[34:56] But she's not...

[34:57] She doesn't really kill herself.

[34:58] She's just giving herself a good old Slenderman spook.

[35:01] It's a good old scare-em-up.

[35:02] An old-fashioned Slenderman spook.

Stuart Wellington

[35:04] So, they...

[35:05] So, Hallie and Wren are trying to survive or kind of figure out their situation.

[35:10] Wren starts doing some research at the library on bioelectric systems.

Elliott Kalan

[35:15] What I love here is it is such an old-fashioned thing that she would go to the library to use their computers.

[35:19] When it's clear all the kids have their own computers.

[35:22] And she looks up this book that's, like, bioelectric...

[35:24] The book is called, like, Bioelectricity and Supernatural Phenomena.

[35:28] Does her normal small-town library have a copy of it?

[35:32] You know they do.

Stuart Wellington

[35:33] And their small-town library that's, like, super gothic and scary.

[35:37] Oh, yeah.

[35:37] It's a scary library.

[35:38] It's like Arkham's library.

[35:39] And I like when they're doing research.

[35:41] Like, the internet research is kind of believably dumb.

[35:44] Like, they're just doing, like, simple Google searches.

[35:47] It's the sort of thing that, like...

[35:49] Like, if you were like, Stuart, you got to find out some stuff about Slenderman real quick to record a podcast, I'd be like, okay, let me start Googling.

[35:57] And then there's all these, like, Photoshop's, these, like, historical Slenderman photos that are, like...

[36:02] This is some of the laziest Photoshop I've ever seen.

Elliott Kalan

[36:06] I wish that they had gone all the way and had, like, paintings of, like, the Revolutionary War and there's a Slenderman in the back that's encircled.

Dan McCoy

[36:12] I also feel like this was a mistake that the movie makes where it's like, okay, Slenderman is an internet thing.

[36:17] So the movie also needs to, like, tie into the internet a lot.

[36:21] Whereas, like...

[36:22] They keep talking about it as, like, an invasive idea.

Elliott Kalan

[36:24] Like, a meme.

[36:24] Yeah, I don't...

[36:25] I mean...

Stuart Wellington

[36:25] Yeah, I would have loved to have seen, like, a Peter Paul Rubens where he's like, I'm gonna make a beefy Slenderman.

Elliott Kalan

[36:32] There's a Mona Lisa Slenderman.

[36:34] It's like, it's not smiling.

[36:35] It has no face.

[36:37] Now, here's...

[36:38] I just want to say one thing about this textbook she finds in the library.

[36:40] So it's called, like, yeah, Bioelectricity and Supernatural Phenomena or something like that.

[36:44] And it is very much a niche text.

[36:48] My wife, she's a librarian.

[36:50] She's talked to me many times.

[36:50] My mom's a librarian.

[36:51] They both talked to me about the need to cull a library's collection.

[36:54] If a book is, one, out of date, if it has incorrect scientific information, you gotta cull that thing.

[36:59] That book seems to fall under that heading.

[37:01] Number two, if a book hasn't been taken out in years, you're probably gonna lose it.

[37:05] You know what?

[37:06] It's just not being used at all.

[37:07] I have a hard time believing that that book has been in such good circulation.

[37:12] It's still a Slenderman in this neighborhood.

[37:14] And it's not just still in the collection.

[37:15] It's on the stack.

[37:16] And it's dog-eared.

[37:17] It's in the stacks on the shelf.

[37:18] And it's dog-eared.

[37:19] Like, this is a well-circulated, traveled book.

Stuart Wellington

[37:22] Yeah, and she's, like, deep in the stacks and tries to get a phone call.

[37:24] And all of a sudden, it fuzzes out.

[37:26] Because I'm assuming libraries have scramblers to prevent kids from using their cell phones.

Elliott Kalan

[37:30] It's to stop old homeless men from watching pornography on the internet.

Dan McCoy

[37:33] So, I don't think she explains the stuff now that she finds in the book.

[37:37] I think that comes a little later.

[37:38] But, like, the stuff in it is such, like, weird, like, Ghostbusters.

[37:43] Like, the gibbers that they throw around.

[37:45] It's like supernatural tech mumbo-jumbo.

[37:47] And it's like, why are you trying to, like, midi-chlorian this horror movie right now?

Stuart Wellington

[37:51] Well, and I kind of also like that she relies entirely on a single textbook that she found.

[37:56] Which is kind of funny because a textbook is, like, old media.

[37:59] And this is something that was created through new media.

[38:01] But she, like, completely believes in this one textbook she finds.

[38:06] And, of course, spoiler alert, it provides no assistance for them over the course of the movie.

[38:10] It is a huge waste of everyone's time.

[38:13] Including ours.

[38:15] So, of course, she's deep in the stacks.

[38:17] She gets attacked by Slenderman.

[38:19] She kind of gets sucked into this weird, like, semi, like, sub-dimension caught in a library.

[38:25] Slenderman.

[38:26] Multiple Slendermans are coming after her.

[38:29] He eventually tracks her down and, like, pins her against the wall.

[38:32] And we get the, like, Slenderman version of the Alien 3 Alien and Ripley, like, almost kiss scene.

[38:38] Where he leans in and he's like, have you listened to my podcast?

Elliott Kalan

[38:42] And then she loses her own face, right?

Stuart Wellington

[38:44] Yeah, she loses her own face for a moment.

[38:47] And I want to say.

[38:47] Of course, it's just a trick-a-rooney.

[38:49] What?

[38:49] Yeah, about the faceless.

[38:50] Trick-a-rooney, was that Andy Rooney's rap name?

Dan McCoy

[38:52] Yeah, trick-a-rooney.

[38:52] Trick-a-rooney.

[38:54] The faceless Slenderman.

[38:56] You know, like, the faceless creature is kind of, you know, creepy from a distance.

[39:00] But when we see Slenderman's face up close, it just kind of looks like Styrofoam.

Elliott Kalan

[39:04] It's what, in Clueless, they would call him a tease.

[39:06] Yeah.

[39:08] It does look like, it looks like Smiley that way.

[39:10] Yeah.

[39:10] Where it was like, oh, this is kind of a scary idea, but when you see it actually on a person,

[39:14] it just looks like a big fat man's belly with a smiley face on it.

[39:18] It just looks like a belly.

Stuart Wellington

[39:20] I mean, there's a lot of points where, in general, anytime they try to show the Slenderman,

[39:25] they're like, we need to make this character more definite.

[39:29] Like, we need to make this like a physical presence in the world.

[39:32] And I feel like what would make Slenderman scarier is for it to be vaguer and harder to see.

[39:37] Yes.

[39:37] But, you know.

Elliott Kalan

[39:38] Like it exists just outside of the realm of perception.

[39:41] Exactly.

Stuart Wellington

[39:41] Or that, yeah, that it's almost like something that would be believable and not like a guy

[39:46] that's like a giant tarantula man.

Elliott Kalan

[39:48] It just, it always looks like a guy in a suit who becomes a tarantula man.

[39:51] And it's, it's, it's the, uh...

Stuart Wellington

[39:52] Or was a tree and then becomes a man that becomes a man with a tarantula body.

Elliott Kalan

[39:57] I mean, that's one way to look at evolution, sure.

[39:59] From tree to man to tarantula man, sure.

[40:01] Hey, I, I didn't come from no tree.

[40:04] Okay, Dan, we've talked to you about your evangelizing.

[40:06] Please, this October has gotten very invasive.

[40:09] But, uh, I had the same experience watching this movie that I had when I used to watch the

[40:12] show Are You Afraid of the Dark on Nickelodeon as a kid, which is like, well, it's not scary,

[40:16] but if it was happening to me, it would be scary.

[40:18] Like, it's objectively a scary situation to be in, but to watch it is not scary.

[40:23] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[40:23] So at this point, uh, Ren has decided to go deeper into the conspiracy.

[40:29] Uh, Chloe has been driven mad.

[40:31] Her friends can't eat, like, just don't want to talk to her at all.

[40:33] Which basically just means that she looks like a zombie.

[40:35] Yeah, she looks, she's a, she's a, she's a, she's a vacant zombie.

Elliott Kalan

[40:38] She hasn't slept in a number of days.

[40:39] And, uh...

[40:40] She looks like a young parent.

Stuart Wellington

[40:41] And, and Hallie is just trying to ignore it.

[40:44] She's like, it'll go away.

[40:46] So, of course, she schedules a date with Tom.

[40:49] Mm-hmm.

[40:49] Uh, how late the date is, I can't tell.

[40:52] The scene where she's like, I don't have time for this, Ren.

[40:54] I'm going on a date.

[40:55] It already looks, it's like full dark outside.

Elliott Kalan

[40:58] Now, maybe because it's fall-ish, it's like gets dark early, but it does seem like the

[41:02] date is at like 1 a.m.

[41:04] Yeah.

[41:04] And Tom's like, oh yeah, my parents are out for the night.

[41:07] Yeah.

[41:07] The, it, yeah, it kind of feels like, I mean...

[41:10] There's something very ice stormy about it.

Stuart Wellington

[41:11] Yeah, it also is very much, well, it feels very much like the, the, the director was like,

[41:16] this whole movie is going to be like The Ring where everything is dripping with menace

[41:20] and darkness.

[41:21] Yeah.

[41:21] And, yeah, it's 2 a.m.

[41:23] All the time.

[41:23] Um, okay, so...

[41:25] Do you know where your kid, it's 2 a.m.

[41:26] Do you know where your kids are?

[41:27] Yeah, over at Tom's house.

[41:28] They're at Tom's house.

[41:28] Yeah.

[41:29] Uh, so...

[41:30] They're, they're, they're at Tom's house being cock-blocked by the Slender Man.

[41:33] Yeah, so, so Hallie and Tom's date goes, uh, goes as well as you'd expect.

[41:38] Tom shows off his dad's cool vinyl collection, then they start making out, and then...

Elliott Kalan

[41:42] This is what, he plays this, like, sexy guitar jazz, I guess, and it's like...

[41:46] Would you describe it as smooth?

Dan McCoy

[41:49] Extreme?

[41:49] Oh, yeah, I forgot about that part.

[41:50] It goes down real smooth.

[41:51] It's like, yeah, he puts on the CD, there's like, are these just...

[41:54] No, a CD, Daniel?

[41:55] Okay.

[41:56] It is a, it is a vinyl album.

[41:57] Okay, he puts on this...

[41:58] Yeah, it's so much warmer than a CD would be.

[42:00] I'm sorry.

[42:01] He puts on this album that you're just like, is this just all guitar solos?

Elliott Kalan

[42:05] It is.

[42:06] It starts with that, and it's like, but it feels like the background music of, like, a love scene

[42:10] in, like, a Beverly Hills 90210 or a Melrose Place, and I'm like, oh, when I was a teen,

[42:15] I shouldn't, and I had a girl over, I shouldn't have put on music I liked, I should have put

[42:18] on cliche, sexy music.

[42:21] So, yeah, they...

[42:22] Just like the saxophone from Baker Street over and over again.

Stuart Wellington

[42:24] So, of course, they start making out, and then, like, it sounds like the vinyl is jumping

[42:29] around her, skipping, which is horrifying in and of itself, and then...

[42:32] Yeah, for a real audio head like you.

[42:33] She, like, looks up, and Tom is having this, like, crazy freakout that is the most cartoonish

[42:40] thing.

Elliott Kalan

[42:41] It's like they hired Tim and Eric to produce this freakout, like...

[42:46] Yeah.

[42:46] Which, actually, I liked it.

[42:47] It was like...

[42:48] Yeah, it was great.

[42:48] There are a couple moments in the movie where they feel like they're using the kind of,

[42:52] like, weirdo video effects that you can do now digitally in a way that I don't often...

[42:56] I see a lot of horror movies seem to be doing the same effects you could get with film.

[42:59] Yeah.

[42:59] But this, they're doing, like, art video stuff, and I liked that a little bit.

[43:03] Yeah.

[43:04] But it does look...

[43:04] But it also seems really goofy.

Dan McCoy

[43:05] I wanted to get into that, too, like, at the climax when there's, like, a lot of, like,

[43:10] really crazy effects, like, Slender Man effects.

[43:14] Like, I like the look of some of the weird horror shit that happens in this movie.

[43:20] Uh-huh.

[43:20] The problem is, it all looks pretty fakey.

[43:25] Yes.

[43:25] Like, it's cool looking and really weird, but it also...

[43:30] Because the rest of the movie is shot very realistically, it doesn't fit in.

[43:33] Whereas if, like, this movie was Hausu or something...

[43:36] Yeah.

[43:36] Like, it would be neat.

Stuart Wellington

[43:38] So, after her freakout, Hallie comes clean to Tom about her Slender Man situation.

[43:44] And she...

[43:45] And Tom's like, wait, is this the video?

[43:48] And he finds the video immediately on his phone.

[43:49] She's like, you can't watch that.

[43:51] He's like, okay.

[43:52] She's like, promise me you won't watch it.

[43:54] Next day in class, Tom shows up super freaked out.

[43:57] It feels like everybody but Hallie goes through their stages of Slender Man exposure so much

[44:04] faster.

[44:05] So, you know, she's not going to get much help there.

[44:07] And then, of course, her little sister, Lizzie, goes into shock.

[44:12] She must have watched that video.

[44:13] She goes to some spooky hospital where people with impossibly long hair are getting their

[44:20] hair combed or, like, people with no faces are hanging out.

[44:24] It's St. Halloween's Memorial Hospital.

[44:26] Yeah.

[44:28] She realizes that her sister has fallen into a coma.

[44:32] And she realizes that Ren is the one who exposed Lizzie to the Slender Man.

[44:40] So, she goes to track down her friend Ren.

Elliott Kalan

[44:42] Now, was it to get Ren...

[44:44] Did Ren do it to get Hallie?

[44:47] No.

[44:47] To get...

[44:48] Who was the one who disappeared?

[44:49] Kelly?

[44:49] Katie.

[44:50] Did she do it to get Katie back?

[44:51] Or was she just not like...

[44:53] Was there some other reason?

[44:54] Because it's kind of...

[44:55] I mean, you say what happened.

Stuart Wellington

[44:56] I mean, I would say, from what I can tell, she did it because of the whole idea that you

[45:01] have to sacrifice something you love.

[45:02] Uh-huh.

[45:03] And she's always had a close relationship with Lizzie.

[45:05] Yeah.

[45:05] And maybe by giving up Lizzie, they'll get their friend Katie back or...

[45:08] Save themselves.

[45:09] Slender Man will stop.

[45:10] Oh, okay.

[45:11] So, she goes to Ren's house where Ren, of course, has her little evidence bedroom that's

[45:17] filled with more amazing Slender Man art.

[45:19] Mm-hmm.

[45:20] And Ren is hanging outside...

[45:22] Like, she's, like, standing...

Elliott Kalan

[45:23] Now, Slender Man, now that I think about it, he's basically just the Operation

[45:26] Ivy logo, right?

[45:28] Yeah.

[45:28] But without the hat.

Stuart Wellington

[45:30] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[45:31] And Slender Man probably likes Ska.

Elliott Kalan

[45:34] You have to assume he wears that skinny suit all the time.

[45:37] Yeah.

[45:38] So, they...

[45:40] He steals people and he just takes them to his house to listen to Madness and Mustard

[45:44] Plug and stuff all the time.

Stuart Wellington

[45:46] Yeah.

[45:46] So, she, like, while she's there, she's, like, going through Ren's computer.

[45:51] I think at this point, she finds evidence that the person they were talking to on the internet,

[45:57] Alley Cat, was somebody who was driven mad by Slender Man.

[46:00] So, I guess we close the loop on that plot thread.

[46:03] And they find Ren.

[46:04] She's standing on the edge of her bedroom window.

[46:08] She's going to jump.

[46:10] She's trying to kill herself.

[46:12] Hallie...

[46:13] I mean, as Aerosmith would say, she's living on the edge.

[46:15] Yeah.

[46:15] And she can't keep herself from falling.

[46:16] Hallie pulls her in to save her.

[46:18] Aerosmith would say that.

[46:19] In fact, they did.

[46:21] And then, of course, so they pull her in and save her.

[46:24] And then, almost immediately, Slender Man yanks her out that window.

[46:27] She's gone.

Elliott Kalan

[46:28] It's one of those moments where you're like, if Slender Man could do that, why didn't he

[46:32] do it a hundred times before now?

[46:35] Yeah.

[46:36] I mean, it's...

[46:36] Look, if we could fathom the mind of Slender Man.

[46:39] Poor Slender Man.

[46:40] Who I think was the Snake Man.

[46:41] Yeah.

[46:42] The Snake Man from Jonah Hex, perhaps.

[46:43] It's kind of like how in It, It is both insanely powerful and also can be

[46:48] scared away if you yell too loud at him.

[46:50] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[46:51] Yeah.

[46:52] So, Hallie, at this point, decides to, you know, she's like, comes up with some kind

[46:57] of a plan.

[46:58] She goes marching off into the woods.

[47:00] I think she's going...

[47:01] Her plan is to confront Slender Man.

[47:03] She finds him.

[47:04] He's standing there.

[47:05] And then he, like, sprouts big tarantula things.

[47:08] She immediately loses her cool and she runs away and he chases her, kind of like the

[47:14] giant robot arachnid in Wild Wild West.

[47:17] And she runs away and then she, like...

[47:19] I think that was the inspiration for the scene.

[47:21] Then she backs up against a tree.

[47:23] Of course, that tree is a Slender Man tree because Slender Man is turned into a tree and

[47:27] then he turns her into a tree and then...

Elliott Kalan

[47:29] Which is the episode...

[47:30] It's the end of the children's book, The Slender Tree by Shel Slender Man.

[47:34] Yeah.

[47:34] Shel Slenderstein.

[47:36] Where the kid, the tree keeps giving and giving and giving until eventually it absorbs

[47:39] the child into its bark.

[47:40] Yeah.

[47:41] And the tree was happy.

Stuart Wellington

[47:43] Because they ate a child.

[47:44] Yeah.

[47:45] With her sacrifice...

[47:47] Holy God can eat a child.

[47:48] Her little sister...

[47:50] I should never see.

Elliott Kalan

[47:51] A poem as lovely as a Slender Man.

[47:54] You know, Slender Man grows in Brooklyn is one of my favorite coming of age stories.

Stuart Wellington

[47:59] Lizzie wakes up her sister having sacrificed herself.

[48:03] And then she seems to have been...

[48:05] Her time in her coma seems to have explained all the secrets in the universe as she then

[48:10] lays out some nonsense about how we all...

[48:14] I believe it goes something like, we all click on links, share stories, Photoshop images,

[48:19] all serving his word.

[48:21] Some people seek him out and do messed up stuff.

[48:25] Which, now knowing the actual story behind some of this stuff, that's like a super fucked

[48:31] up way to end the movie.

[48:32] I gotta...

Dan McCoy

[48:33] But also, I have to say that this is...

[48:37] If handled differently, this is like...

[48:40] I know this is sort of a cliched idea, but it's also, if handled differently, this is

[48:44] a frightening idea and maybe the first frightening idea in the movie and it comes at the very

[48:48] end of the movie because it sort of suggests this movie itself may just be furthering Slender

[48:54] man's agenda.

Elliott Kalan

[48:56] Yeah, it was done much better in the movie In the Mouth of Madness.

[48:58] Right.

[48:59] Where the implication is that by watching the movie, you have weakened the wall between

[49:03] our world and the world of these horrible things.

[49:05] Yeah.

[49:06] And so, yeah, but it's the idea that...

[49:09] I mean, like, I feel like that's part of the thrill you're supposed to get from Ring

[49:12] is like, oh, maybe there's something real about it that I shouldn't have watched

[49:16] this and now it's going to come after me.

[49:18] Yeah.

[49:19] The Tingler.

[49:19] It's in the theater, everyone.

[49:21] Run for your lives.

[49:22] Run for your lives.

[49:22] The Tingler's around.

Stuart Wellington

[49:24] In a lot of ways, it feels like somebody was like, okay, so why don't we just do a Ring

[49:30] version with Slender Man?

[49:32] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[49:33] And it's...

[49:34] And if handled...

[49:35] Yeah.

[49:35] If handled...

[49:36] It's...

[49:36] There's kind of a...

[49:37] I think it's like one of those er ideas of horror is that, like, by observing it, you have

[49:43] made it more real.

[49:44] Mm-hmm.

[49:45] And there is a good way to do it.

[49:46] And they're, like, reaching for it with their wooden tarantula hands in this.

Stuart Wellington

[49:50] But it's...

[49:50] Yeah.

[49:50] Kind of like Alan Moore's Providence comic, which is, like, how the way Lovecraft's work

[49:56] spread out and do all that kind of crap.

Elliott Kalan

[49:58] But it's like...

[50:00] Do you think...

[50:00] So do you think, Dan, that they had more substance in this movie and they just kind of had to

[50:05] cut it because it was totally tasteless?

[50:08] Because it was 101 totally tasteless jokes for adults?

[50:10] Oh, boy.

[50:12] Remember the 90s?

[50:12] They cut it down to, like, 90 or 70?

Stuart Wellington

[50:15] They cut it down to...

[50:17] I think they just burned the book.

[50:18] Oh, wow.

[50:19] That's...

[50:19] I mean, that's a rough editing job, but harsh but fair.

[50:21] That's what I'd say.

Dan McCoy

[50:22] I don't know, because it feels like if they were really, like, trying to respect the real

[50:28] life tragedy, they just wouldn't have done it.

[50:31] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[50:31] Yeah, they're like...

[50:32] Like, they put money into a movie.

[50:35] That movie's got to make money.

[50:36] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[50:37] But so they just were like, let's just make it disjointed.

Elliott Kalan

[50:39] I mean, unless this was a non-profit from the Slenderman Awareness Association.

[50:43] Yeah.

[50:44] Or SMA.

[50:45] I mean...

Dan McCoy

[50:46] I don't know why that made me laugh.

Stuart Wellington

[50:49] It's just simply you putting the letters together.

[50:52] Yeah.

[50:53] I mean, if a studio is going to prevent the release of a movie like The Hunt and instead

[50:58] release Slenderman...

[51:03] Well, it's not the same studio, I don't think.

[51:05] No, I know, but it's the same sort of, like, mentality of, like, not releasing a movie because

[51:09] it's vaguely connected to a tragedy, and one of them seems only the slightest... has the

[51:15] slightest connection, whereas Slenderman seems to be closely connected to an actual tragedy.

Elliott Kalan

[51:20] Now, would it be...

[51:21] Now, would it be worse or better than if it was more connected, like, say, The Haunting

[51:26] of Sharon Tate, which is an incredibly exploitative movie in which they're basically saying if

[51:31] Sharon Tate and her friends had tried a little harder, they'd still be alive today?

[51:36] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[51:36] And not, what, ghosts?

Elliott Kalan

[51:38] Are they ghosts?

[51:38] At the end, I think they're ghosts, but they're happy ghosts?

[51:40] Yeah.

[51:41] Because you can't spell ghost without H for happy.

[51:43] Uh-huh.

[51:43] Get happy or stop terrifying strangers.

[51:48] Oh, yeah.

[51:49] Ghosts.

[51:49] Yeah.

[51:50] Ghosts, yeah.

[51:51] Wow, cool.

[51:52] That's what ghost stands for.

[51:53] Thanks.

[51:53] Okay.

Dan McCoy

[51:54] Well, let's do our final judgments.

[51:56] Is this totally terrifying?

[51:59] Wait, was that it?

[52:00] Wait.

[52:01] Wait, hold on.

[52:01] You're the keeper of the BS, Dan.

[52:03] This is totally scarifying?

Elliott Kalan

[52:05] Totally scarifying, totally snorifying.

[52:07] Totally snorifying.

[52:07] Or frighteningly funny.

Dan McCoy

[52:09] Yeah.

[52:10] I'm going to say it's pretty snorifying.

[52:13] I think that the thing about it is, like, what's scary about Slender Man on the internet

[52:19] is kind of your personal connection to Slender Man.

[52:22] Like, you're going down that same rabbit hole.

[52:24] Well, he's like Charles Barkley.

Elliott Kalan

[52:26] He's friends with so many people you never would have guessed.

[52:28] Oh, God.

[52:28] Just ordinary folks whose lives are touched in a beautiful way by Slender Man.

Dan McCoy

[52:32] I'm just saying that, like, I can see how it's scary at home where you're, like, sitting

[52:36] alone in front of a computer going down this, like, rabbit hole of, like, here's a Slender

[52:39] Man story that leads to this other Slender Man story, and maybe I am giving him more power.

[52:43] Maybe he's, like, going to come into my life.

[52:44] Like, you have that personal experience of, like, relating to this thing, whereas in the

[52:49] movie we're watching other people get on the internet and learn about Slender Man, and it just doesn't

[52:54] have the same zazz.

Stuart Wellington

[52:57] Not enough zazz.

[52:58] Yeah, I mean, if, like...

Elliott Kalan

[53:01] If I was giving notes, I'd be like, terminal lack of zazz.

Stuart Wellington

[53:04] I feel like we could, like...

[53:06] Let's ignore the obvious relationship, the metaphor here between Slender Man and vaping,

[53:13] right?

[53:14] I mean, it's kind of right out there.

[53:16] It's hard to ignore it, I guess.

[53:18] I just...

[53:18] I feel like...

[53:19] I feel like...

[53:20] I'm going on a limb here, but I feel like we should take a stand against...

[53:24] Instead of having so many firearms on our street, and less being worried about Slender Man's

[53:28] on our street.

[53:29] Okay.

[53:30] Wow, so you're running for office, I guess?

Elliott Kalan

[53:32] I mean, more people have been killed by vaping than by Slender Man, so...

Stuart Wellington

[53:36] That's true.

[53:36] So, part of it is the...

[53:38] Like, this movie feels so padded out.

[53:41] There's, like, so many dream sequences, and there's so many dream sequences that are,

[53:45] like, nested on each other.

[53:47] I did like the one bit where Hallie is in the bathroom, and then she looks down, she's

[53:52] got a big old belly, and then all of a sudden, like, a baby Slender Man comes out, and I'm

[53:56] like, son of Slender Man already?

[53:58] The sequel's in the movie?

[54:00] Yeah.

[54:00] The...

[54:01] But, no, it...

[54:02] Like, it's...

[54:03] It's...

[54:04] I mean, it feels inevitable, and I guess in a way, like, that's the whole point, but there's

[54:10] just so little there, and it's hard to get scared at a movie that doesn't seem to...

[54:15] Like, it not only doesn't know its own rules, it doesn't seem to care.

Elliott Kalan

[54:19] It's a horror movie that doesn't seem to be that interested in scaring you, or having

[54:22] really much of a response from you, and, like, the thing...

[54:25] There's...

[54:26] There are two styles fighting against each other, especially as the movie goes on, and

[54:29] they're trying to scare it up by having more intense dream sequences.

[54:32] There's this style that is very removed, and very...

[54:36] There's almost like a haze between you and the film, and that can work if you lean all

[54:39] the way into it.

[54:39] Like, I mentioned Picnic at Hang Rock before.

[54:41] That's that movie.

[54:42] That movie is...

[54:43] There's, like, a weird scrim between you and the film, and it adds to this mystic, like,

[54:48] kind of ambiguity around the movie.

[54:49] Yeah.

[54:49] Or, you make it totally in-your-face, you know, scary, intense, but you can't quite

[54:55] mesh the two, or at least they haven't done it here.

[54:58] And so I'm going to have to say Snorrifying 2, although there are things that...

[55:00] Yeah, Dan, if it had been handled better...

[55:02] If it had been made better, it might have been a better movie.

[55:04] Wow.

[55:04] I'm going to go with Dan McCoy's Law, which is, if it was a better movie, it would have

[55:08] been better.

[55:09] Yep.

[55:09] Hello, this is Amy Mann.

Stuart Wellington

[55:16] And I'm Ted Leo.

S4

[55:17] And we have a podcast called The Art of Process.

Stuart Wellington

[55:19] We've been lucky enough over the past year to talk to some of our friends and acquaintances

[55:23] from across the creative spectrum to find out how they actually work.

Elliott Kalan

[55:26] And so I have to write material that makes sense and makes people laugh.

[55:30] I also have to think about what I'm saying to people.

Stuart Wellington

[55:33] If I kick your ass, I'll make you famous.

Dan McCoy

[55:35] The fight to get LGBTQ representation in the show.

[55:39] We weirdly don't know as many musicians as you would expect.

Elliott Kalan

[55:42] I really just became a political speechwriter by accident.

[55:45] Realizing that I have accidentally pulled my pants down.

Stuart Wellington

[55:48] Listen and subscribe at MaximumFun.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

Dan McCoy

[55:53] It's like if the guinea pig was complicit in helping the scientist.

Stuart Wellington

[56:01] Welcome back to Fireside Chat on KMAX.

[56:04] With me in studio to take your calls is the dopest duo on the West Coast, Oliver Warnham,

Elliott Kalan

[56:09] and Morgan Rhodes.

[56:11] Go ahead, caller.

Dan McCoy

[56:12] Hey, I'm looking for a music podcast that's insightful and thoughtful, but like also helps

Stuart Wellington

[56:17] me discover artists and albums that I've never heard of.

Elliott Kalan

[56:20] Yeah, man.

[56:20] Sounds like you need to listen to Heat Rocks every week.

[56:23] Myself and I'm Morgan Rhodes.

[56:24] And my co-host here, Oliver Wong, talk to influential guests about a canonical album that

[56:29] has changed their lives.

Stuart Wellington

[56:31] Guests like Moby, Open Mic Eagle, talk about albums by Prince Joni Mitchell, and so much more.

[56:38] Hey, what's that show called again?

Dan McCoy

[56:40] Heat Rocks.

[56:40] Deep dives into hot records.

S4

[56:42] Every Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Dan McCoy

[56:47] The Flophouse is brought to you in part by Casper.

[56:51] Casper's new hybrid mattresses combine.

[56:55] Yep, they can blind anything.

[56:58] That's why you gotta wear shades.

Elliott Kalan

[57:01] Your bedtime's so bright, you have to wear shades.

[57:04] Please, protect if I wear when necessary.

Dan McCoy

[57:06] The hybrid mattresses combine the pressure relief of their award-winning foam with durable

[57:12] yet gentle springs.

Elliott Kalan

[57:15] They took cutting-edge mattress technology, and where the DNA gaps were not accessible,

[57:19] they put frog DNA.

[57:21] To create a hybrid that certainly can never get loose and destroy the park.

Dan McCoy

[57:25] This new innovation offers the best of both worlds.

[57:29] Luxurious comfort and resilient support.

[57:32] Even with springs, these mattresses still come magically in a box that simply arrives on your doorstep.

Stuart Wellington

[57:40] Guys, without you and your resilient support, I don't think I could get through this.

[57:45] And yet we come in a box that arrives on your doorstep.

Dan McCoy

[57:49] The copy makes it sound like the magical thing is that the box arrives on your doorstep.

[57:53] And, you know, people do get packages.

[57:54] I think the magical thing is a whole mattress fits in a box.

[57:56] I don't know, you're always complaining about not getting packages.

[57:58] Yeah, I read your Twitter feed.

Elliott Kalan

[57:59] You're constantly like, it takes magic to get a package in this world.

[58:02] That's true.

[58:03] I think it's funny also.

[58:03] Dear Gandel.

[58:06] Dear Mercury, the messenger god.

Dan McCoy

[58:09] You can be sure of your purchase with Casper's 100-night risk-free sleep-on-it trial.

[58:15] So get $50 toward select mattresses by visiting casper.com slash flophouse and using flophouse at checkout.

[58:24] That's casper.com slash flophouse and using flophouse at checkout.

[58:28] Terms and conditions apply.

Elliott Kalan

[58:31] That's Casper, the ghostiest of the mattresses.

[58:35] Because it's named after Casper Hauser.

Dan McCoy

[58:38] So no other corporate sponsors, but we have a couple of Jumbotrons.

[58:44] You know it.

[58:45] That's the biggest Tron they make.

[58:46] Jumbotrons.

[58:47] Elliot, I believe you have the longer of the two, so perhaps you should go first.

Elliott Kalan

[58:51] Sure.

[58:51] This is a message for Karen and John, soon to be name withheld.

[58:55] And this message is from Gabe, Fletch, and Nick.

[58:58] And the message goes like this.

[59:00] Dear Karen and John, congratulations on your marriage.

[59:03] And there is no better way to celebrate but by paying the original peaches to yell it from the pod top.

[59:08] Whether it's Elliot singing a song, Stu cracking up on a beer, or Dan doing his best, Mr. Burns excellent.

[59:14] As Karen's butt becomes a wife's butt.

[59:16] We are so happy to see you two together forever.

[59:19] Mazel tov.

[59:19] That's great news.

[59:20] Congratulations.

[59:21] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[59:22] And I also have a Jumbotron.

[59:25] What?

[59:26] This message is for Kyle.

[59:30] The message is from Joanna.

[59:34] Kyle, I miss you.

[59:37] We need to update the crayon list.

[59:39] You're a good dino boy.

[59:41] Love, Joe.

Dan McCoy

[59:44] It's true.

[59:44] The crayon list does need to be updated.

[59:47] Dan, don't pretend you know what they're talking about.

[59:48] I've said it once.

Elliott Kalan

[59:49] This is a very intimate message between two people.

[59:52] I've said it a thousand times.

[59:53] You do not try to horn in on their lives.

[59:56] It's a real you, me, and Dupree type scenario going on right now.

Stuart Wellington

[59:59] I simply allow the spirit of the message to enter me and come out of my mouth.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:05] Every time Stuart finishes Jumbotron, he then goes, huh?

[1:00:07] What?

[1:00:08] Where am I?

[1:00:08] What happened?

Dan McCoy

[1:00:09] Has Aeolus poured forth from my mouth?

[1:00:13] I simply allow the words on the page to enter my eyes and come out through my voice.

[1:00:20] So we don't have any more shows.

[1:00:22] We did our last show.

[1:00:23] Live shows.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:25] This is not the last episode of The Flop House.

[1:00:27] We don't have any more live shows for this year.

[1:00:29] What if it was?

[1:00:31] You know what, guys?

[1:00:32] We're done.

[1:00:33] So close.

[1:00:33] Almost made it to 300.

[1:00:35] Well, yeah, that was our last live show.

[1:00:37] We have none more scheduled.

[1:00:38] As of yet, we will schedule more someday.

Dan McCoy

[1:00:41] Yeah, so I don't know.

[1:00:42] Well, if you guys have other things to play.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:44] There's a show for us.

[1:00:48] Somewhere a show for us.

[1:00:51] A lot of musicals.

[1:00:52] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:52] A lot of episodes.

[1:00:52] And the show is in a city, most likely.

Dan McCoy

[1:00:57] 76 more shows over the next several years.

[1:01:00] Wow.

[1:01:01] That's really upping our number.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:04] That's a pretty big commitment.

[1:01:06] As always, Dan, I'd love to promote my children's book, Horse Meets Dog.

[1:01:09] I have another children's book coming out next year.

[1:01:10] I'll tell you more about it as we get closer to it.

[1:01:12] And get ready, podcast listeners, because at some point, John Hodgman and I will begin releasing

[1:01:17] the episodes.

[1:01:19] Oh, Max Fun will begin releasing.

[1:01:20] John and I are not doing the work of the actual releasing.

[1:01:22] That'll be Jordan who's doing the work of that.

[1:01:24] Jordan Cowling, that is, who's listening to this right now.

[1:01:26] So I better say nice things or else technical difficulties will kill all of us.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:29] Oh, she's tearing a framed photo of you in half.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:32] Frame it all.

[1:01:33] She tore the frame.

Dan McCoy

[1:01:34] She's listening to us every episode, Elliot, not just the ones where we're at the HQ.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:39] But Hodgman and I are doing a, we'll have a podcast coming out soon called iPodius.

[1:01:43] We are watching the series iPodius.

[1:01:45] This is a touchstone series of John Hodgman's life.

[1:01:48] I have never seen it before.

[1:01:49] I'm familiar with the books, but not the show.

[1:01:51] And we're hoping to interview some of the actors who are in the show.

[1:01:54] Oh, that's wonderful.

[1:01:54] And that's part of the bonus content, right?

[1:01:56] I think it's actually going to be public release.

[1:01:58] Wow.

[1:01:59] Everyone can hear it.

[1:02:00] Everyone.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:01] But for bonus fans, we should have another episode up of our flop tales that we're moving through.

[1:02:09] Episode three should be dropping soon.

[1:02:11] And that is where I make Dan, Elliot, and Jubin play a role-playing game with me.

Dan McCoy

[1:02:16] And, you know.

[1:02:17] And after a long hiatus, we'll be recording the final episode of this series soon.

[1:02:23] And I will desperately try to remember what happened in the last three episodes.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:26] Stuart is, I guess we'll have to listen.

[1:02:28] Stuart's always like, you guys aren't picking up on the clues.

[1:02:30] And I'm like, I don't remember what my character is, where we are, what's going on.

Dan McCoy

[1:02:33] The problem is Jubin as well had a child, so it, you know.

[1:02:36] I mean, I don't think that's a problem.

[1:02:37] No, that's a great thing.

[1:02:39] That's a blessing.

[1:02:39] That's a blessing for us.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:40] Dan's like, it's a problem.

[1:02:41] This earth can barely sustain the number of humans it has on it right now.

Dan McCoy

[1:02:44] I mean, I kind of believe that, but, you know, he can do what he wants.

[1:02:48] All right.

[1:02:48] Miley Cyrus over here.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:49] And I'm also going to plug my bar, Hinterland's, and my wife's bars, Minnie's Bar and Charlene's Bar.

[1:02:56] Minnie's Bar just started doing karaoke on Saturday nights, where I'm assuming Dan McCoy will ramble in every once in a while and sing such party favorites as The Monster Mash.

[1:03:07] And some song by R.E.M.

Dan McCoy

[1:03:09] I did sing Monster Mash at the first night to acceptance.

[1:03:15] I would say, actually, you had a much better reaction than I would expect.

[1:03:20] Well, it is the season.

[1:03:21] Anyway, let's move on to letters from listeners like you.

[1:03:26] This first letter is from Emily, last name withheld.

[1:03:29] And Emily writes, hi, floppers.

[1:03:31] I'm hoping you can settle an argument.

[1:03:33] Yes.

[1:03:34] Okay, well.

[1:03:36] We did it.

[1:03:36] Asked and answered.

[1:03:38] When my partner and I first got together, we had a lot of DVDs.

[1:03:42] A couple of years into our relationship, we decided to pull the trigger and merge collections.

[1:03:48] Wow.

[1:03:49] Since then, our DVD collection has sat gathering dust in the corner of our living room on a number of rickety IKEA shelves.

[1:03:57] Wait, wait.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:57] I just want to stop and praise Dan for the way he pronounced rickety.

Dan McCoy

[1:04:01] Well, thanks.

[1:04:02] I mean, this happens so rarely that I'm going to take just a moment to enjoy it.

[1:04:06] Hey, look.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:07] Infinite number of monkeys and infinite number of typewriters.

Dan McCoy

[1:04:09] Eventually, you're going to pronounce something right.

[1:04:11] Okay.

[1:04:12] Well, 99% of the time, we stream movies.

[1:04:15] In the rare case, we want to watch a movie from our collection.

[1:04:19] We usually remember it's a plain old DVD and not a Blu-ray copy.

[1:04:22] So we download slash rent a Blu-ray copy.

[1:04:26] I spoke too soon.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:27] And stream it to the TV.

[1:04:28] The rickety was fine, but Blu-ray apparently didn't make it past the velvet rope.

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:32] I mean, Blu-ray is actually a very strange thing to say.

[1:04:36] Shouldn't the movie be called a Blue Way?

[1:04:38] Because that's the way you're watching it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:40] What, Blue?

[1:04:42] I mean, I don't even know why it's called Blu-ray, to be honest.

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:44] That's the kind of laser beam that shoots at your fucking disc.

[1:04:47] A Blu-ray?

[1:04:47] Yeah, it's a Blu-ray.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:48] And blue is spelled B-L-U?

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:51] That's actually a good point.

[1:04:53] Maybe it's an acronym for blazing laser under your disc.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:59] Wait, so where's your disc?

[1:05:01] It's all mushed together.

Dan McCoy

[1:05:04] I just want to say that if I mispronounce a word now,

[1:05:07] it does not take away the proper pronunciation of a different word.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:11] They cancel each other out, like matter and antimatter, pasta and antipasto.

[1:05:17] Newly and Anthony Newly.

Dan McCoy

[1:05:20] Okay.

[1:05:20] Well, Emily continues to write, or I continue to read Emily's words, rather.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:26] Oh, thanks for clearing that up.

Dan McCoy

[1:05:28] It's cooking along this letter.

[1:05:30] Well, you guys are the...

[1:05:31] Okay.

[1:05:32] I have suggested that we donate or sell off our DVD collections,

[1:05:37] holding on to a few good favorites.

[1:05:40] I think it would be nice to free up some space in the living room.

[1:05:43] Uh-huh.

[1:05:44] But no doing.

[1:05:45] My partner is convinced that the fall of the internet is nigh,

[1:05:48] and at least we'll still have our precious DVDs to sell on the post-apocalyptic streets at a profit.

[1:05:54] Yeah.

[1:05:55] My question to you is, which side are you on?

[1:05:58] The Marie Kondo purge or hoarding for the apocalypse?

[1:06:01] That's Emily Lasting withheld.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:03] Guys, if I can jump in, because I've actually been thinking about this a lot lately.

[1:06:06] Uh-huh.

[1:06:06] When I moved from New York to L.A., I went through a big VHS videotape purge.

[1:06:10] I said, I haven't watched any of these tapes for at least five years.

[1:06:13] I don't even own a machine that plays them.

[1:06:15] I don't need them anymore.

[1:06:16] So I gave them all away.

[1:06:17] The movies I taped off television, I threw away.

[1:06:19] The factory produced manufactured videos I gave away.

[1:06:22] And I don't regret that, but lately I've been regretting how much I rely on streaming rather than buying DVDs,

[1:06:30] because I've had a number of experiences where I want to watch a movie,

[1:06:33] and I cannot get access to it readily.

[1:06:36] And sometimes I own it on DVD, and that's great, and it's wonderful.

[1:06:40] And even if it's not a Blu-ray, come on, don't be a snob.

[1:06:42] It's still the movie.

[1:06:43] I used to watch stuff on VHS tape where the best you could get was that it looked crappy.

[1:06:47] But now I'm realizing a lot of movies are not making out to streaming, especially older movies,

[1:06:52] because there is not a huge amount of profit in that.

[1:06:55] So companies don't want to waste the space on it.

[1:06:57] And I think there will come a time when it dawns on people, oh, I don't own anything,

[1:07:02] and I have to pay every time I watch a thing.

[1:07:05] The same way that I don't own a lot of music, and I wish that I did.

[1:07:08] And at any moment, Apple could just take away all the albums that I have.

[1:07:12] So I am actually on the other side of it now, and I am pro-physical media in a way I wasn't before.

[1:07:16] But here's the thing.

[1:07:18] Are those DVDs in their boxes still?

[1:07:19] Throw those fucking boxes away.

[1:07:21] Yeah, yeah.

[1:07:21] Put them into DVD books.

[1:07:22] You don't need those boxes.

[1:07:23] Those are a waste of space.

[1:07:24] What, does it look nice on your shelf?

[1:07:26] No.

[1:07:26] Put some books in there, look classy, and then put the DVDs, discs.

[1:07:30] You can keep the booklets if you want.

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:32] Especially if those were those fucking cardboard DVD cases with the little plastic snap on the side.

[1:07:38] Yeah, it looks like garbage.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:40] Slide out the insert cover, recycle that, throw the rest away, and just take the disc and put it in a disc book.

[1:07:47] Put it in a closet.

[1:07:48] You don't need to look at it, but you'll have it for when you want to watch it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:51] Yeah, I mean, I feel bad that I got rid of my Laserdisc collection because now I have nothing to chop up and snort cocaine off of.

[1:07:59] Wait, why do you have to chop it up?

[1:08:01] Yeah, you got to chop it up in the lines.

[1:08:02] Yeah, it's cocaine.

Dan McCoy

[1:08:03] Oh, the cocaine's being chopped.

[1:08:04] The Laserdisc, that's insane.

Elliott Kalan

[1:08:06] That's my T2 Laserdisc.

[1:08:08] But even then, there are people who got rid of their Laserdiscs, and there are things on those Laserdiscs often that are not available anymore.

[1:08:14] Like there's either documentary features or things like that, or better versions of movies, or the old versions of the Star Wars movies.

Stuart Wellington

[1:08:21] I really feel that with movies, and there's definitely stuff that I'm glad I have that I can watch whenever I want.

[1:08:27] Anytime I'm hankering for some Ricky O story of Ricky, and if for some reason it's not profitable for a streaming service to carry it, I can just watch it.

[1:08:38] I just have to have a thing to play my DVD.

[1:08:40] With music, it's a little different, though.

[1:08:42] I buy a lot of my stuff off of Bandcamp, and obviously I'd be nervous that Bandcamp would go away, but that lets you download the actual audio files, so it's a little different than just iTunes.

[1:08:55] That's different.

[1:08:56] But it's mainly modern stuff, because I'm kind of young and hip, and I support modern artists, so yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:09:02] Yeah, I don't have a whole lot to add to what's been said.

[1:09:06] I agree with Elliot for the reasons that he cites, and also...

[1:09:09] Stuart about the Laserdisc thing.

[1:09:11] Yeah.

[1:09:12] And also, you know, even if a movie is available to stream on a service that's either free or you're already paying for, you know, the way that licensing works, they usually just license those movies for a certain amount of time, and it's here today and gone tomorrow.

[1:09:28] So, like, yeah.

[1:09:29] I like having it around, although with streaming I have curtailed my DVD collecting a little bit.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:34] I don't buy as much as I used to, but I'm starting to buy more because I realized, like, I wanted to watch The Thin Man the other night.

[1:09:40] I own it on DVD.

[1:09:41] Uh, Slenderman, you mean?

[1:09:42] Yeah, yeah, Slenderman.

[1:09:43] Yeah, Slenderman.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:43] The Thin Man, the original Slenderman, and, because it's one of my favorite movies, Thin Man, not Slenderman.

[1:09:48] And, like, it felt really good that I could just take...

Stuart Wellington

[1:09:51] I would love to see the, like, DVD box for Slenderman where they edit that one of my favorite movies, dot, dot, dot, Slenderman.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:59] And it felt good to be able to be like, okay, I can just pull it out of the DVD booklet and stick it in the machine, and I don't have to, like, find it.

[1:10:06] I don't have to hope that the internet connection is going to stay up or something like that, you know?

[1:10:12] I like...

[1:10:12] I'm coming around to liking physical media.

[1:10:14] I never moved from physical books to digital books, and I'm glad, because I like...

[1:10:18] I think physical books, I'd be worried more about losing books and things like that.

[1:10:21] Uh, sorry, I would...

[1:10:22] You okay?

[1:10:23] I'll just sneeze, maybe.

[1:10:23] Dan's suddenly acting like there's an invisible bee that's flying around his head.

Stuart Wellington

[1:10:27] I do a lot of digital books, to be honest with you, but I keep, like, my favorite, especially with, like, graphic novels, I keep my favorites.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:33] Oh, comics is different.

[1:10:35] Now I'm almost all digital on that.

Stuart Wellington

[1:10:37] Uh-huh.

[1:10:37] This is fascinating.

[1:10:38] Unless you get a, you know, the anniversary cube of the Akira collection, which, of course, you can't get that on digital.

[1:10:44] That's silly.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:45] The thing is, I want to get it, but I already have all those books.

[1:10:47] Yeah, I bought it.

[1:10:48] This is, like, the fourth or fifth printing I have.

Stuart Wellington

[1:10:50] Okay, go on.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:51] Like, I have so many different printings of, like, Hellboy.

[1:10:53] How many different printings can I get?

Stuart Wellington

[1:10:54] Yeah, but there's the great supplementary materials that are all about, like, unused art for the...

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:58] But didn't they publish it with the Japanese sound effects?

[1:11:00] I can't read Japanese.

[1:11:01] I don't know what that's saying.

[1:11:03] Leo...

[1:11:03] I don't know if it says Kerrang or Kabash.

Dan McCoy

[1:11:06] Leo, last name.

[1:11:07] Uncle Leo.

[1:11:08] Leo, last name withheld, writes this.

[1:11:11] Dear Peaches, my girlfriend and I need help, so I am throwing myself at the feet of your sage and august tribunal.

[1:11:19] A lot of relationship help we're handing out today.

[1:11:22] What is this, savage love?

[1:11:23] Last month, Stephanie and I had to make a somewhat long drive for apple picking purposes.

[1:11:30] Nearly two hours one way.

[1:11:33] And we knew that the only entertainment worthy of our mission was the Flophouse.

[1:11:37] You got that right.

[1:11:38] Official podcast.

[1:11:39] You know you love us, baby.

[1:11:40] I have been talking up the glories of Frank D'Angelo and Neil Breen, so we plan to listen to the No Deposit and Fateful Findings episodes, both Smallvember classics.

[1:11:50] Now, for a long time, I've politely insisted that the name of the month is Smallvember.

[1:11:55] Thank you.

[1:11:55] And she politely rejects my logic on its face, claiming that it is Small Timber.

[1:12:00] Nope.

[1:12:00] The round trip for apples was apparently the last straw because we could hardly contain our laughter while arguing about the matter in Target a few days later.

[1:12:10] That is what has come to public displays of animosity over the made-up name of our favorite movie podcast, small production-themed September episodes.

[1:12:19] Please, Peaches, how can we resolve this difference between us?

[1:12:23] Perhaps you'd favor us with a vote?

[1:12:25] There are three of you.

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:27] Sincerely, Leo, last name withheld.

[1:12:29] Wow.

[1:12:30] Leo has really painted a picture of Apple picking, podcasting, and product purchasing at Target.

[1:12:36] Were you thinking of that while I was reading?

[1:12:39] Yeah, you couldn't see the steam coming out of my ears as the gears are working.

[1:12:43] As you flip through a dictionary.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:46] Now, if I recall correctly, I—

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:49] And you could also call collectively, as you were about to say.

[1:12:52] The other person takes the charges.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:56] We got a baby.

[1:12:57] I wish I could do that.

[1:12:59] No, if I recall correctly, I coined the name for that month, but I misspoke the first time around saying small-vember, thinking that that was the pun that made sense, then realizing that the month was September.

[1:13:19] And not Sep-vember.

[1:13:21] Yeah, so small-timber?

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:25] Honestly, the origin of it is lost to history.

[1:13:27] I think it's funnier to call it small-vember when it's in September, and I like the sound of it more.

Dan McCoy

[1:13:34] And I'm a stickler for logic, so I say small-timber.

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:37] And I like—I'm more like a go-by-my-gut, kind of like, hey, whatever feels right.

[1:13:41] Do what your body wants.

Stuart Wellington

[1:13:41] I'm kind of caught between two warring houses here.

[1:13:47] On one hand, I could side with Dan, or I could side with the correct one, which is Elliot.

[1:13:56] Well, you're not going to change my behavior.

[1:13:59] Oh, so many have tried.

Dan McCoy

[1:14:01] So I hope that helps.

[1:14:02] There's one last letter.

[1:14:03] Amanda, last name withheld, writes, Peaches, this evening I drove by a Popeye's, and it made me wonder, is Elliot—

[1:14:11] A lot of P sounds in this one.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:14] For apple picking.

Dan McCoy

[1:14:15] I'm glad that with all our plosives, we're in a professional studio today.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:20] Professional.

Dan McCoy

[1:14:22] This evening—

[1:14:23] Spoodio.

[1:14:23] I drove by a Popeye's, and it made me wonder, is Elliot still eating chicken when watching movies for the Flophouse?

[1:14:32] I would hate to hear that this control variable has been lost now that he can't grab it on the way to Dan's.

[1:14:39] And speaking of the long-distance podcasting, do you all attempt to watch the movies at the same time?

[1:14:44] Or if not, do you agree to watch them at a certain time period before the recording so that it's still fresh, possibly?

[1:14:52] Yours floppily, Amanda, last name withheld.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:54] We synchronize it, which is hard to do with the time zone difference.

Stuart Wellington

[1:14:57] I'm assuming Elliot is eating, what, kale and avocado toast?

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:01] Yeah, kale, avocados, sun-dried tomatoes, or as your wife referred to them yesterday, tomato raisins.

[1:15:06] The sad thing, I hate to break it to you, I still eat Popeye's, and there's one in my new neighborhood, which is great.

[1:15:12] But I no longer can eat it while I'm watching the movie because I'm usually doing the dishes while I watch the movie.

[1:15:17] Most movies are watched in three or four chunklets by me as I would do the dishes.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:22] Based on the way that you clean your plate of Popeye's chicken, I would say that's also kind of like doing the dishes because you could serve food on those things.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:31] And to answer the second question about when we watch the movies, Stuart often busts my balls about watching the movies several days before recording.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:41] Only because you forget everything.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:45] Let's be clear.

[1:15:47] My memory is a sieve, and if I had watched it the day before, I would remember exactly as much about the movie.

[1:15:55] All right.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:57] That's actually probably the best pro-watch-the-movie-four-days-in-advance argument you've ever made, Dan.

[1:16:02] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:16:03] Well, we just, you know, we fit it into our busy schedules.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:07] As long as we get it done before we record.

Dan McCoy

[1:16:09] We try and do it within, say, the five days before recording.

Stuart Wellington

[1:16:13] Well, my favorite way to do it is because we've been recording normally at like noon on a Sunday, noon Eastern time, in case you were wondering.

[1:16:24] I'll wake up early on Sunday mornings, usually pretty hungover, and my wife will go to the gym and I'll sit on the couch and watch the movie.

[1:16:32] And then run right over to Dan so that we can record.

[1:16:35] So it's as fresh as possible in my brain.

[1:16:37] Now, when we do a live show, we still watch the movie together that day.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:41] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:16:41] Before the show.

[1:16:42] Usually on some kind of small screen so that we can get the whole picture of X-Men Dark Phoenix or X-Men Godzilla King of the Monsters or X-Men Alita colon Battle Angel.

[1:16:54] X-Men colon Alita colon Battle Angel.

[1:16:56] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:16:57] So let's move on.

[1:16:58] Doing some texting, Dan?

[1:16:59] My girlfriend has forgotten Elliot's address.

Elliott Kalan

[1:17:03] Do not say it on the podcast, please.

Dan McCoy

[1:17:05] No, I'm not going to.

[1:17:06] Why did you think that was forthcoming, Elliot?

[1:17:08] It's not going to happen again.

[1:17:12] So let's do some recommendations of movies you should watch instead of Slender Man.

[1:17:17] You got it.

[1:17:17] Oh, okay.

Elliott Kalan

[1:17:19] Instead of the original Thin Man.

[1:17:21] No, that's a great movie.

[1:17:23] I'll tell everyone, look, if you haven't seen The Thin Man before, that's not my recommendation for today, although it should be.

[1:17:27] It's one of my favorite movies.

[1:17:28] You got to keep watching until Nick and Nora get introduced.

[1:17:31] The first 10 minutes or so of the movie is setting up the suspects and the mystery, and I like that part, but it's not quite – it's not the snappy wit that you're expecting.

[1:17:39] But then William Powell and Myrna Loy come in, and it's just nonstop bubble delight from that point on.

[1:17:45] Speaking of, you know what else's delight?

[1:17:46] Bubble from Max Funn, written by Jordan Morris.

[1:17:49] Guys, you're on your phones looking at things, so I'll recommend my movie.

[1:17:52] I'm sorry.

[1:17:53] So I'm going to recommend the movie Boy.

[1:17:55] That's one of Taika Waititi's earlier films.

[1:17:58] And it's about a boy growing up in New Zealand in the 1980s.

[1:18:02] And he's got a lower class background.

[1:18:05] He's got a lot of problems in his family, but he's the oldest kid in the family.

[1:18:07] He's 11 or so.

[1:18:08] So he's taking care of his younger siblings and I think maybe cousins, and his ne'er-do-well father comes back.

[1:18:16] And at first it seems like this is his chance to connect with a man he has been kind of making a legend of in his mind because he has so little to kind of look up to.

[1:18:25] And slowly it dawns on him after experience with his dad, the reality of the situation.

[1:18:30] And it's a funny movie and a touching movie.

[1:18:33] There's a little – it wears its Wes Anderson influence on its sleeve a little heavily.

[1:18:38] Yeah.

[1:18:38] In a way that Taika Waititi is kind of sloughing off with each movie he makes.

[1:18:43] I haven't seen the new one, but I really liked it a lot.

[1:18:46] So I'll recommend Boy.

Stuart Wellington

[1:18:48] I'm going to recommend a movie called Three Tears on Bloodstained Flesh.

[1:18:53] It's kind of the same movie.

[1:18:54] Yeah, it's kind of the same movie.

[1:18:56] Rolls right off the tongue.

[1:18:57] It's a tiny budget giallo homage, or I guess it's just a giallo set and shot entirely in southern Indiana using a cast of actors entirely from that area.

[1:19:12] If you were to ask me, should that movie be two and a half hours long, I would normally say no, but I've also watched it twice in the last week.

[1:19:21] It's – I don't know.

[1:19:23] It's this movie that is clearly made for very little money.

[1:19:28] It looks cheap.

[1:19:31] The script is like fun and gross, but it all like – for whatever reason, it's still – it's a great movie.

[1:19:40] Like, I couldn't explain it.

[1:19:42] Like, every – I would watch it.

[1:19:43] I'd be like – when I first started watching it, I'm like, oh, man, this doesn't look that great.

[1:19:47] I don't think I'm going to enjoy this.

[1:19:49] But every scene managed to include, like, little nuggets that made me keep pressing on until the movie's over before I know it.

[1:19:57] All the acting has a little bit of the, like, we're putting on a play for our parents vibe, but kind of in a good way.

[1:20:03] The special effects are limited, but they're fun.

[1:20:07] There's definitely a villain that looks kind of like the nemesis from Resident Evil, but he's wearing a tiny little top hat, and that's really awesome.

[1:20:17] Yeah, it's just – man, I don't know.

[1:20:19] It's on Amazon Prime, so you can watch it there.

[1:20:23] Yeah, it's great and weird.

[1:20:24] Check it out.

Dan McCoy

[1:20:25] I'm going to recommend a movie that, as of right now, I'm not quite sure how you can find it, but I am recommending it on faith that it will be streaming somewhere soon,

[1:20:38] and that you will remember that I recommended it.

[1:20:42] You'll maybe come across it and say –

[1:20:43] Because you want the credit.

[1:20:44] Well, no.

[1:20:45] I mean, I will get into it in a second.

[1:20:48] This is not something that necessarily you would look at and be like, oh, this is going to be good, but let me tell you, it's going to be good.

[1:20:55] I went to see this at Alamo Drafthouse.

[1:20:58] They had a special screening of it.

[1:21:00] I think it was like a fundraiser screening for something.

[1:21:02] Our buddy Matt Carman, who does a lot of the tech stuff for our live shows, said, you want to go see this?

[1:21:10] I'm like, yeah, I like hanging out with friends and seeing movies.

[1:21:13] And so it's a documentary called Who Let the Dogs Out, and it is about the song Who Let the Dogs Out.

Elliott Kalan

[1:21:20] That sounds like exactly the movie Matt Carman would want to see all the time.

Dan McCoy

[1:21:25] And it is a trim 61 minutes, but it is delightful, and it is about the surprisingly tangled history of who deserves the credit for writing the song Who Let the Dogs Out.

[1:21:41] And, you know, a lot of people said, oh, three identical strangers.

[1:21:45] The documentary Three Identical Strangers.

[1:21:47] There were so many surprises along the way, so many twists and turns.

[1:21:50] And I was more amazed by the number of twists and turns that are in the story of who wrote Who Let the Dogs Out.

[1:21:57] And, you know, whether someone heard earlier versions, whether they're borrowing, whether it was something psychically in the air, over the course of the 60 minutes, it sort of becomes a documentary about the way all artists borrow.

[1:22:10] And it's hard to know, you know, where something comes from and why a certain version of something becomes popular.

Stuart Wellington

[1:22:17] It's like that moment when, like, Hollywood was convinced that the name Chuck was hilarious and that they would find a way to fill it into everything.

Dan McCoy

[1:22:25] It's exactly like that.

[1:22:27] And it sort of becomes a story, too, about, like, the weird obsession that this guy who is unraveling this gets to with such a silly thing.

[1:22:36] And also kind of in a larger sense, it becomes about how any stupid thing has an interesting story attached to it if you work hard enough to discover it or if you tell it in the right way.

[1:22:50] So Who Let the Dogs Out?

[1:22:52] That's just what it's called, Who Let the Dogs Out?

[1:22:54] It's just called Who Let the Dogs Out.

Elliott Kalan

[1:22:55] Some people might think it's a film adaptation of the song.

[1:22:58] Yeah.

[1:22:58] And it's a whodunit about letting the dogs out.

[1:23:01] Is the song a whodunit?

[1:23:03] I have to assume so.

[1:23:05] I don't know the lyrics, but I assume it's about a detective who's picking up clues.

[1:23:10] I can only imagine it.

[1:23:10] It's about a party where dogs get let out.

Stuart Wellington

[1:23:12] And it probably asks more questions than it answers.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:16] I mean, looking at the lyrics right now, Who Let the Dogs Out?

[1:23:19] Woof, woof, woof, woof, woof.

[1:23:20] Who Let the Dogs Out?

[1:23:27] Sounds like a whodunit to me.

Dan McCoy

[1:23:29] Okay.

[1:23:29] Well, let's just wrap it up.

[1:23:31] That's been another Shocktober 2019.

[1:23:35] Hope you had fun.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:36] We lay it to rest in its crypt, and we lower the coffin down into the floor, cover it with

[1:23:43] the dirt of its home country, which is Flopsylvania.

[1:23:45] And possibly a grieving Italian grandma.

[1:23:49] Of course.

[1:23:49] Why?

[1:23:49] You were such a good boy.

[1:23:51] But Shocktober.

[1:23:51] You were such a good month.

[1:23:52] A good theme month.

Dan McCoy

[1:23:53] But it is not consecrated ground.

[1:23:55] In Shocktober, it's an unquiet soul, so it will rise again next year.

[1:23:59] When?

[1:23:59] No one will know.

[1:24:00] Oh, next year?

[1:24:01] Yeah.

[1:24:01] Well, no one knows when next year.

Stuart Wellington

[1:24:02] Yeah.

[1:24:03] Impossible to tell.

[1:24:04] Maybe somebody will make another horror movie before then that we can review.

Elliott Kalan

[1:24:08] Yeah, could be.

[1:24:09] Could be.

[1:24:09] I mean, we don't have any theme months between now and the end of the year, right?

Dan McCoy

[1:24:12] We might watch the movie that we originally wanted to watch, but I won't spoil that.

Elliott Kalan

[1:24:16] And also, of course, there's Cagemas coming up in December.

Stuart Wellington

[1:24:19] Don't we have Sandalvember coming up?

[1:24:20] That is a made-up thing.

[1:24:21] Oh, right.

Elliott Kalan

[1:24:22] Sandalvember.

[1:24:22] Or is it Sanduary?

[1:24:24] Okay, guys.

[1:24:25] No, Sandalvember.

[1:24:25] I still want to do...

[1:24:27] Well, we'll talk about...

[1:24:27] It was either Momuary or Mombrewary.

Dan McCoy

[1:24:30] I was just talking about how we need to wrap it up.

[1:24:33] So, for the Flophouse, Dan McCoy is me.

Stuart Wellington

[1:24:38] Hey, I'm Stuart Wellington, and I'd also think you should check out other shows on the Maximum

[1:24:42] Fun Podcast Network.

[1:24:43] That's the network that we're on, and there's a lot of great, cool content on there.

Elliott Kalan

[1:24:48] So, check it out.

[1:24:49] And I'm Elliot Kalin saying, why don't you tell people about us?

[1:24:51] Leave us a positive review on iTunes.

[1:24:53] Tweet about us.

[1:24:54] Instagram about us.

[1:24:54] TikTok about us.

[1:24:55] Snapchat about us.

[1:24:56] Whatever your social media platform of your choice, they're all equally evil.

[1:25:00] Please talk about the Flophouse on them.

[1:25:02] I've been Elliot Kalin.

[1:25:04] Bye!

Stuart Wellington

[1:25:10] That's boy's life.

[1:25:13] That's good quality propane.

Elliott Kalan

[1:25:17] Today's top story.

[1:25:19] The boy ain't right.

[1:25:21] Propane remains the best heating gas.

[1:25:25] And grill fuel.

[1:25:27] In other news, local neighbor, Con Sufanoosanfon, furious at his neighbor, Hank Hill.

[1:25:38] We now turn to Boomhauer for the weather.

[1:25:45] Did they ever do weather on Tom Brokaw's report?

[1:25:47] I don't think so, right?

[1:25:48] Probably.

[1:25:48] NBC Nightly News.

[1:25:50] People need to know it.

Dan McCoy

[1:25:50] The national weather.

[1:25:51] The national weather.

Stuart Wellington

[1:25:54] Maximumfun.org.

S4

[1:25:56] Comedy and culture.

[1:25:57] Artist owned.

[1:25:58] Audience supported.

Ep. #296 - Slender Man

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