Ep. #300 - The Wicker Man

Dan McCoy

[0:00] On this, the 300th episode of The Flophouse, a special Cagemust show, The Wicker Man.

Hallie Haglund

[0:07] And I'm here, Hallie Hagelin, the star of the show.

[0:11] This movie sucked.

[0:30] Hey, everyone, and welcome to The Flophouse.

Dan McCoy

[0:45] I'm Dan McCoy.

[0:47] Oh, boy, Dan.

[0:47] It's me, Stuart Wellington.

Elliott Kalan

[0:49] And for the 300th time, not really.

[0:52] I missed a bunch of episodes.

[0:53] It's me, Elliot Kalin.

Hallie Haglund

[0:55] And me, Hallie Hagelin.

Elliott Kalan

[0:58] So, Dan, you're continuing the tradition of not introducing our guests.

[1:02] Well, she's been here so many times, I feel like she knows what's up.

Dan McCoy

[1:06] Yeah, it's Hallie.

Hallie Haglund

[1:08] Hi.

Dan McCoy

[1:09] Hallie, why haven't you been here for a while?

[1:11] Tell us all.

Hallie Haglund

[1:12] Well, you know, because you didn't invite me.

[1:17] That's a good reason.

Dan McCoy

[1:17] Well, I figured you were pretty busy because you were doing some major things in your life.

Stuart Wellington

[1:21] Yeah, we've been using a different Discord channel.

[1:26] Or what do people use?

[1:28] I don't know what that is.

[1:29] Slack.

[1:30] Slack.

Elliott Kalan

[1:30] We moved to a different Slack channel.

[1:33] So, for those of you who are just joining us for the first time, who have decided that

[1:36] the 300th episode of the show is the ideal entry point, Hallie Hagelin is by far the most

[1:42] popular, most requested guest on the program.

[1:45] A long-time friend.

[1:47] She and I shared an office for many years.

[1:49] Pitched a TV show nobody was interested in.

[1:51] No.

[1:51] But I still think it was really good.

[1:52] I think it was great.

Hallie Haglund

[1:53] It's still out.

[1:54] It's still, if there are any takers.

Elliott Kalan

[1:59] Oh, wow.

[1:59] This is like a pawnbrokers type thing right now.

[2:04] And Emmy and WGA award winning writer, right?

[2:08] An executive producer of Problem Areas with Why It's an Act.

[2:11] Boy, you've done so much, Hallie.

[2:12] You're very accomplished.

Hallie Haglund

[2:12] Thank you.

[2:13] I'm also a mother.

Elliott Kalan

[2:16] Oh, wow.

Hallie Haglund

[2:16] But my number one title is mother.

Stuart Wellington

[2:19] Oh, that's the toughest job you'll ever love, right?

[2:21] Yeah, exactly.

Dan McCoy

[2:22] Yeah, tell us all about how your life has changed, Hallie.

Hallie Haglund

[2:25] I had a baby a couple months ago.

[2:28] Four months ago.

[2:30] But yeah, so I just really been doing that.

[2:33] It's hard to get out of the house.

[2:35] You know, I'm scared mostly to leave the house.

[2:37] Oh, you're agoraphobic now.

[2:39] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[2:40] Well, you know, Hallie, you have the thing that all early parents have where if you don't

[2:45] keep your eyes on the baby at all times, then its heart and lungs will stop instantly.

[2:49] Yeah.

Hallie Haglund

[2:49] Well, actually, I'm just more afraid that people are going to get really mad that my baby's

[2:55] crying in public.

[2:56] It's mostly that fear.

[2:57] Oh, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[2:57] There's that too.

[2:58] Where's the fear of David Bowie, the Goblin King, stealing your baby on your list?

Hallie Haglund

[3:02] Oh, yeah.

[3:03] I mean, that's, I mean, he's dead.

[3:06] Oh, that's true.

Dan McCoy

[3:07] Sorry.

[3:08] Spoiler.

Hallie Haglund

[3:09] No more babies stolen by David Bowie, I guess.

Stuart Wellington

[3:11] You know, I feel like Jennifer Connelly's character really overreacts because, I mean, she doesn't

[3:16] have to babysit him for a while, right?

[3:18] He's just doing all the hard work.

[3:20] Uh-huh.

[3:21] Yeah.

[3:21] I mean, arguably his goblins are doing it.

Dan McCoy

[3:22] Just bring him back before mom and dad get home, right?

Stuart Wellington

[3:25] Yeah.

[3:25] I mean, I feel like that was kind of a loose agreement when he left after he was done spinning

[3:30] that ball around his hands and turning it into a snake.

Elliott Kalan

[3:33] Worst case scenario, that baby picks up some amazing globe juggling skills.

[3:37] Yeah.

[3:37] Which I'd be incredibly happy to have.

[3:40] Although I will say, I was once in a park in London, England, and I saw this guy trying

[3:45] to impress some pretty girls by juggling a glass globe like in Labyrinth.

[3:51] And I was like, that is so impressive that you can do that.

[3:53] And at the same time, it is so dorky and unimpressive.

[3:56] Yeah.

Hallie Haglund

[3:56] Let me say, no man hath won my heart with juggling.

[4:03] Just say that.

[4:04] Okay.

Dan McCoy

[4:07] Hey, guys.

[4:08] It's the 300th episode.

[4:10] We said it in the intro, but it bears repeating.

[4:12] Yeah.

[4:12] What do we do on this podcast?

[4:13] Well, we watch a bad movie and then we talk about it.

[4:15] And by cosmic conjunction, our 300th episode falls on our annual holiday of Cagemas, where

[4:24] we celebrate the work of St. Nicholas Cage.

[4:26] Mm-hmm.

Elliott Kalan

[4:27] Is there any greater proof of a god than that these two things lined up?

[4:30] I don't need one.

[4:31] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[4:32] I mean, it's certainly a spigot that keeps pouring out delicious treats for us to deal

[4:37] with.

Stuart Wellington

[4:37] A spigot that pours out treats.

Elliott Kalan

[4:40] That's Nicolas Cage, you're saying?

[4:41] Yeah.

[4:42] Because that spigot would get clogged up pretty fast, right?

Dan McCoy

[4:46] Yeah.

[4:46] I was watching this movie actually at a bar on my phone because I had a holiday party to

[4:52] go to last night.

[4:54] And I needed to like, Dan's working on me.

Stuart Wellington

[4:56] He's being present and in the moment when a party's with his girlfriend.

Elliott Kalan

[5:00] He's like, I'm both going to not enjoy this party.

[5:03] And also, I'm going to miss a lot that's going on in the movie.

[5:05] I had to kill some time before the party.

Dan McCoy

[5:06] I had to kill some time before the party.

[5:08] It was the only time I could work in watching our movie of this week, which is The Wicker

[5:14] Man, as we announced.

Elliott Kalan

[5:15] No, The Wicker Man Man.

[5:17] That's probably what it sounded like on your phone at the bar.

Dan McCoy

[5:19] But to the point of Nicolas Cage churning out movies, the bartender's like, hey, what are

[5:25] you watching there?

[5:25] And I kind of awkwardly had to explain why I was watching an old, bad Nicolas Cage movie.

Stuart Wellington

[5:31] You're like, uh, I have a podcast.

Dan McCoy

[5:34] And he was like, oh, I love Nicolas Cage.

[5:37] I love him.

[5:37] He's always watchable.

[5:39] He always just, you know, he keeps pumping out those movies, though.

[5:42] Not all of them good because he buys a bunch of stuff.

[5:44] He has the action comics number one.

[5:46] He's telling me about Nicolas Cage.

[5:47] I'm like, no, sir, I know.

[5:49] I realize.

[5:50] He churns out a lot of crap for the money.

Hallie Haglund

[5:53] Have you guys ever watched City of Angels for Cagemas?

Dan McCoy

[5:58] No, we should sometimes.

[5:59] The Wings of Desire remake?

[6:01] I loved that movie.

[6:03] Did you?

[6:04] What was the song from it?

[6:05] It was the Goo Goo Doll song, Iris.

[6:08] Was it?

[6:08] I don't want the world to see me.

[6:11] Right, right, yeah.

Hallie Haglund

[6:13] No, but wasn't also that Sarah McLaughlin, like, in the arms of the game.

[6:18] I thought that was from sad animal commercials.

[6:21] No, that one is, uh, that's a different Sarah McLaughlin song.

[6:26] Oh, okay.

[6:27] She, I mean, a lot of her songs are really sad.

Dan McCoy

[6:30] I mean, I think a lot of things could be in the arms of angels, guys.

[6:33] I don't know.

[6:33] Harps.

[6:34] Why not both, as the internet says.

[6:35] Harps.

Hallie Haglund

[6:35] Yeah.

[6:37] Feathers that have fallen out of their wings.

Stuart Wellington

[6:39] Occasionally a trumpet to herald the Almighty.

Dan McCoy

[6:43] Now, you think that angels shed feathers, Hallie.

[6:46] As divine beings, they, I would assume that the feathers just stay in the whole time.

Elliott Kalan

[6:51] Ugh, and get really gross and dirty, because they're just stick, just the same feathers

[6:55] with all the crap floating around in heaven getting stuck in them?

[6:57] I don't think so, Dan.

[6:58] I think they shed those things.

[6:59] Come on.

Stuart Wellington

[7:00] Is that why birds shed feathers?

[7:02] Because they get crap stuck in them?

Dan McCoy

[7:05] It's as good a reason as any.

[7:06] Okay.

[7:07] I guess so.

[7:08] Um, so, look.

Elliott Kalan

[7:09] So, Dan, Dan, why, so you, so the bartender asked a very good question to you.

[7:13] Why are you watching The Wicker Man?

[7:15] Why did you decide that we should watch The Wicker Man for this arc?

[7:17] I'm 300th episode spectacular.

Dan McCoy

[7:20] I don't actually think I was the one who suggested it.

[7:22] I think it may have been Stuart, but.

Stuart Wellington

[7:24] It was probably me, because we're, uh, because we wanted to do a Nicolas Cage movie, and we've

[7:28] done a whole bunch of these episodes, and we're like, what's a classic good, bad Nicolas Cage

[7:32] movie?

Dan McCoy

[7:33] Yeah, we were going back, you know, for the 300th episode, we decided, let's not just,

[7:38] like, pick some piece of crap that he did this year.

[7:40] Let's go back and do the-

[7:42] Sorry, Kill Chain.

[7:44] Yeah, let's go back and do the one that many heralded as a new bad movie classic when it

[7:50] came out, but was before our time making this podcast.

Stuart Wellington

[7:53] See you next year, primal.

[7:55] Yeah.

[7:57] Catch you on the flip side, The Guardian.

Elliott Kalan

[8:00] I feel, he did come out with a lot of movies recently.

[8:04] The, I feel like, uh, The Wicker Man might, was the moment that a lot of people realized

[8:08] for the first time, like, oh, he's making some real bad movies these days.

[8:12] Yeah.

[8:12] Because this was also, like, a big release.

[8:13] A lot of the movies that we've been doing with him lately are small movies.

[8:16] They're little minis.

[8:17] Yeah.

[8:17] Little movie minis.

[8:18] Well, this-

[8:18] Like, you just, fun size, you just pop a bite, pop them in, and you end up eating more

[8:22] than you would if it was a full-size movie.

[8:23] Yeah.

[8:23] Because they're so small, and you're like, oh, I thought I was going to get, save

[8:26] calories by eating these fun-sized Nicolas Cage mini movies.

[8:29] And it's like, oh, no.

[8:31] Now I have more Nick Cage in my belly than I thought I would if I just had a full-size

[8:34] Nick Cage.

Dan McCoy

[8:34] Now, Hallie, is this reminding you of how irritating Elliot can be?

[8:38] Are you getting flashbacks?

Hallie Haglund

[8:40] I just love how Stuart just, like, blacks out.

Stuart Wellington

[8:43] Yeah.

[8:44] It's like a trance.

[8:47] Us.

[8:47] Yeah.

[8:48] So, and this is also, this is also a movie that has a relatively well-known supporting

[8:54] cast.

[8:55] You have your Frances Conroy.

[8:56] You have Ellen Burson.

[8:57] You got Lili Sobieski.

[8:59] Yeah.

[8:59] How did they get all those stars?

[9:01] And it also has a, at the time, a relatively hot indie director.

[9:09] Yeah.

[9:09] Neil Labute.

[9:09] Neil Labute, who taught at IPFW, the community college, in my hometown of Fort Wayne, Indiana.

Dan McCoy

[9:17] And I feel like Neil Labute should be addressed a little bit off the top of the podcast.

[9:23] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[9:23] Dear Neil Labute, how are you doing?

[9:25] What's going on?

[9:26] Neil Labute, 123 Labute Street.

[9:28] Okay.

[9:29] Well, he's a-

[9:30] Los Angeles, California.

Dan McCoy

[9:31] He was a playwright, and then, you know, he made movies.

[9:34] His first, I don't know if it was his first movie overall, the first one that got his men-

[9:39] In the Company of Men.

[9:40] In the Company of Men.

[9:40] In the Company of Men, which at the time, so this is a movie about sort of an alpha male

[9:45] who enlists a beta male in this plot to sort of romantically destroy a woman, and he's

[9:52] doing it for his own kind of personal business advancement.

Stuart Wellington

[9:58] A lot of it was shot in Fort Wayne, Indiana, my hometown.

Dan McCoy

[10:01] And the end of the movie is, like, the weaker man, like, realizes-

[10:06] No, no, the wicker man, Dan.

[10:07] The wicker man.

[10:08] The weaker of the two men realizes-

[10:10] The wicker of the two men.

[10:12] Realizes that he has actual feelings for this woman, but of course he's treated

[10:15] her horribly, and she is deaf, and he's sort of yelling at her, trying to get her to pay

[10:20] attention to him.

[10:21] I don't think that's going to help.

[10:22] And she does not hear him.

[10:27] She just sees him, like, sort of silently, like, trying to do this.

[10:31] And it plays as this kind of final small triumph over these horrible men that she does not

[10:39] have to listen to him.

[10:40] At the time, watching this movie, I thought, okay, this is, like, about what we now would

[10:44] call toxic masculinity.

[10:46] It's taking the woman's side.

[10:48] But then, as Neil LeBute has made more and more movies, you're like, oh, no, maybe he's

[10:52] just a misogynist, as you will see in The Wicker Man.

Elliott Kalan

[10:56] That reaches its full flower in The Wicker Man, a movie in which Neil, I should say Neil

[11:00] Cage.

[11:01] Nicolas Cage punches or kicks no fewer than three women.

[11:05] It's true.

[11:06] Who are all, like, and this is a guy who's in action movies.

[11:10] So it's a little bit, it's like, as bad as it would be, it's even worse because he's a

[11:13] guy who, you know, like, works out, is used to fighting John Travolta.

[11:17] Oh, yeah.

[11:17] Like, you know.

Hallie Haglund

[11:18] I mean, at least those parts weren't boring.

[11:20] That's true.

[11:21] Oh, wow, yeah.

[11:22] I guess you're right.

Stuart Wellington

[11:23] And this is part of the motorcycle period of Nicolas Cage movies, where one of his character's

[11:29] defining traits is that he is a motorcyclist, as we see in the opening scene.

Elliott Kalan

[11:35] In the opening.

[11:35] So should we jump into the movie?

Stuart Wellington

[11:36] Let's do it.

[11:37] Should I jump into my summary?

[11:37] Yeah.

[11:38] Okay.

[11:38] First thing we see is Aaron Eckert sitting as a trucker at a truck stop diner.

Elliott Kalan

[11:43] So I don't think we need to go into such detail on it, but Nicolas Cage, he is playing

[11:48] Edward Malice.

[11:49] I will refer to him from this point on as Nick Cage.

[11:53] He's kind of a moody California motorcycle cop.

Stuart Wellington

[11:55] And the first time we're introduced to him, it's a woman who, the woman working at the

[12:00] diner calls him Honey.

[12:01] Honey.

[12:02] That is not a coincidence.

[12:04] No, because Honey will play an important role in the movie.

Elliott Kalan

[12:06] Not Honey Boy, the current film.

[12:10] I want to see that.

Dan McCoy

[12:11] Have you guys watched that?

Elliott Kalan

[12:12] I got a screener for it.

[12:13] Yeah, me too.

[12:14] Yeah, I got the screener, but I haven't watched it yet.

[12:16] But, I mean, I guess they turned Nick Cage into a Honey Boy by the end of it.

[12:20] We'll get to that, yeah.

[12:21] So he gets interrupted by that waitress while he's looking at some self-help tapes, or self-help

[12:27] paperback that's on the spinner rack.

Stuart Wellington

[12:28] I think it's a tape, because he refers to his tapes later.

Dan McCoy

[12:31] Guys, this is really important to the plot of the movie.

[12:33] Let's get granular about this.

Hallie Haglund

[12:34] She says, your salad's up.

Dan McCoy

[12:39] The first 12-hour episode of the flop-out.

Hallie Haglund

[12:42] But we never find out if he ate the salad.

[12:44] It's true.

[12:45] Because then it cuts to the road.

Elliott Kalan

[12:47] Yeah, maybe it took the salad to go.

[12:51] So he's eating a salad when he rides his motorcycle down the highway.

[12:55] He's just stopping people left and right.

[12:56] He's a good motorcycle cop.

[12:58] One day, he pulls over a mother whose young daughter has been throwing a doll out the window

[13:01] of the car.

[13:02] And as he's retrieving the doll, a huge truck hits the car, and it bursts into flames.

[13:06] It comes out of nowhere.

[13:08] And the truck seemingly disappears.

[13:10] Like, I don't know.

[13:11] Even in that, it just kind of keeps going.

[13:13] He tries to save the girl who is very stoic while the car around turns in flames, and he's

[13:18] trying to smash through the back window.

[13:19] But he fails, and it explodes before he can get her out.

[13:22] That's the first of many failures for Nicolas Cage in this movie.

Stuart Wellington

[13:25] And he sinks into the cool oblivion of passing out.

Hallie Haglund

[13:29] But wait, when he picked the doll up off the road, was that reminiscent for you guys

[13:36] of the moment in Con Air when he had the bunny, and he's like, give the bunny back.

[13:45] That's what I thought of.

Stuart Wellington

[13:47] I mean, that's the thing when you have one of these legacy actors, right, is that almost

[13:50] everything he does is weighted with such significance when you judge it all against his huge career.

[13:55] In the Ofra.

Dan McCoy

[13:57] Raising Arizona 2, where the biker pulls the actual baby off the ground.

Elliott Kalan

[14:03] Yes, the baby is sitting in a car seat on the ground, and the biker drives by and lifts

[14:09] it up and puts it on the front of his bike.

[14:10] Yeah.

[14:11] It's the lone biker of the apocalypse, right?

[14:13] Wheels within wheels.

[14:14] Every shot in the movie pays homage to another Nicolas Cage movie.

[14:17] It's funny how you mention Raising Arizona, because much as in that movie, in the next scene,

[14:21] Nicolas Cage is sitting on a couch.

[14:22] He is, and I'm sure that's a deliberate mirroring.

[14:26] He has fallen into a depression.

[14:27] His friend, a lady cop, comes by to give him his mail that was being collected at the station

[14:31] for some reason.

[14:32] And she's like, oh, you got your commendation.

[14:35] And I wanted to be like, why?

[14:36] He failed.

[14:36] Yeah.

[14:37] Also, they never found the bodies.

Dan McCoy

[14:39] That's the other thing.

[14:40] They never found the bodies.

[14:41] So why did he get a commendation for this thing?

[14:44] They only have his word that he was trying to help the scene out of it.

[14:46] He didn't do anything.

Stuart Wellington

[14:48] He tricked a truck into running over a car.

Elliott Kalan

[14:51] Are they saying that when that car exploded, the heat was like that at the center of a nuclear

[14:56] weapon, and it vaporized the woman and the girl inside the car?

[15:00] Come on.

Dan McCoy

[15:01] Well, guys, look, earlier this week, I watched the original Wicker Man before watching this.

[15:06] Oh, I like the original one.

[15:08] Yeah, no, it's a good movie.

[15:09] But I will bring it up a couple of times, hopefully not too much, but to make some instructive parallels.

[15:17] And this points to two things where I think this movie goes wrong.

[15:21] Number one, the fact that the bodies disappear points to some sort of actual supernatural thing

[15:28] that happens in this movie.

[15:29] Sure.

[15:29] Whereas the Wicker Man, you're never quite sure, the original, you're never quite sure

[15:34] whether there's actual power to these pagan rituals or whether they're just a bunch of

[15:38] misguided, crazy people.

[15:40] Who sing some really great songs.

[15:41] And number two.

Elliott Kalan

[15:43] They do have some great songs in the original one.

[15:45] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[15:45] Number two, this movie, the remake, seems to think it needs to give Nicolas Cage a tragic

[15:51] backstory as motivation for wanting to find a lost girl when, like, the fact that he's

[15:57] a police officer is enough in and of itself.

[15:58] And then later on, we find out this lost girl is his.

Hallie Haglund

[16:01] I mean, it's not motivation when he's a police officer in California and it's happening in

[16:07] Washington.

[16:08] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[16:08] Well, California is higher up in the pyramid of where you can be a cop.

[16:13] So it's like, if you're a New York cop, you're a cop everywhere you go.

[16:17] But if you're a cop from, like, I don't know, say Fort Wayne, Indiana, you know, you're not

[16:22] a cop if you go to other places.

Elliott Kalan

[16:23] And similarly, if you're from Detroit and you go to Beverly Hills, nobody takes you seriously

[16:27] as a cop.

[16:28] And that's why you've got to be goofy and stick bananas into gas pipes.

[16:32] So another thing, two things I want to mention about the original Wicker Man, as long as

[16:36] you're opening up that can of Wicker worms, is that the original Wicker Man is very much

[16:40] about a man of traditional faith who is set against a, and a prudish man, who is set against

[16:46] this pagan, very, like, fertility sexual atmosphere.

[16:52] And you really feel like he is worried about his soul throughout the whole movie.

[16:55] And here they're trying to make it, I guess, that Nick Cage is worried about his sanity.

[16:58] But it's Nick Cage.

[16:59] You know he's crazy.

[17:00] So it doesn't, it's not that big of a deal.

Stuart Wellington

[17:02] No, it's like, he plays, he's like a big, crazy, this is a big, crazy Nick Cage performance

[17:06] where he just kind of, like, runs from scene to scene, kind of acting dumb, doing strange

[17:11] things, like going, bursting into a classroom and wiping off the chalkboard.

Elliott Kalan

[17:17] And there's, and the first one is very much like, this guy, it's a confrontation between

[17:22] old religion and, you could say, older religion.

[17:25] Yeah, yeah.

[17:26] And in this one, it's just a confrontation, I guess, between a man who hates women and all

[17:30] these women who, who, who hate men.

Dan McCoy

[17:32] Yeah, I was trying to figure out what the, they thought the metaphor was, or what Neil

[17:36] thought the metaphor was, because it does seem like, okay, it's like.

Elliott Kalan

[17:39] I'll tell you, Dan, the metaphor is bees.

Dan McCoy

[17:41] The masculine versus the feminine is all I can think of.

[17:45] And it's very strange, because like, a charitable reading would be that the women have this

[17:51] power that men can't comprehend, but it comes off as just like, women are villains.

Elliott Kalan

[17:55] I mean, that is, I don't, I think that is the reading.

[17:58] I think the reading of the movie is women are villains, and they, if they give them power,

[18:02] they'll destroy men.

[18:03] Yeah.

[18:03] But the other thing I want to mention is that because of that, that kind of like, to put

[18:07] it one way, like Christianity, Catholicism versus paganism, the old movie, the old movie

[18:12] is like, really erotic, like really strongly erotic.

[18:14] Yeah.

[18:15] In the way that he's ran.

Stuart Wellington

[18:15] I mean, because it's got, it's got Christopher Lee in it, dude.

[18:18] Christopher Lee, who is a sex, sex god.

[18:20] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[18:20] There's a reason that, there's a reason they have all those Count Dooku sleeping pillows

[18:24] that look like him, and you put them in your bed.

Stuart Wellington

[18:26] Yeah, it's because his lightsaber's got some English on it.

Elliott Kalan

[18:29] Yeah.

[18:29] They were, every time they were putting the Frankenstein makeup on him when he was playing

[18:32] the monster, they're like, gotta slather on more makeup.

[18:34] This guy is just too sexy.

[18:35] Yeah.

[18:35] Come on.

[18:36] We can't have a sexy Frankenstein monster.

[18:38] Andy Warhol did that already.

[18:39] Actually, he hadn't by that.

Stuart Wellington

[18:40] So should we keep talking about a movie that we didn't watch for the podcast or the movie

[18:45] we did watch for the podcast?

Elliott Kalan

[18:46] Good point.

[18:47] Good point.

[18:47] So anyway, Nick Cage, his mail gets brought to him by his coworker.

[18:50] Turns out his ex-fiance, Willow Woodward, she ran away before they could get married.

[18:55] She moved back to her home, a secretive island commune in Washington State called Summer's

[19:00] Isle, where they make honey.

[19:01] And she writes and says, my daughter Rowan has disappeared and I need your help.

[19:05] And her handwriting is...

[19:06] Impeccable.

[19:07] It's perfect.

[19:08] Her handwriting looks like someone printed out a letter using a handwriting font, which

[19:12] I suspect they did.

Stuart Wellington

[19:14] So do we want to point out that her name is Willow Woodward and Willow is a woodward?

[19:19] Just like her daughter Rowan is...

[19:21] That's also a woodward.

[19:22] Interesting.

Dan McCoy

[19:22] I want to point out that, I mean, this comes from the original Wicker Man, so I can't

[19:27] make fun of it too much in relation to this movie.

[19:29] And Wicker...

[19:29] Yeah, because the original Wicker Man is sacred, sure.

[19:31] But Wicker is also a woodward.

[19:33] Okay.

[19:34] But...

[19:35] But Summer's Isle, this island, you would think it's just called Summer's Isle, but it's

[19:40] named after someone called Summer's Isle.

[19:42] You find out.

Elliott Kalan

[19:43] Yeah, it's like the Outer Bridge Crossing, which is named for a man named Outer Bridge.

[19:47] These things happen.

[19:47] Life is funny that way.

[19:48] You know, life is beautiful, Dan.

[19:49] Buongiorno, Principe.

[19:50] Wait.

Hallie Haglund

[19:52] But Rowan is a kind of tree?

[19:54] Yeah.

[19:54] I didn't know that.

[19:55] Yeah.

[19:56] What kind of tree is it?

Stuart Wellington

[19:57] I don't...

[19:58] I guess I'll Google it.

[19:59] What would satisfy you, Hallie?

Dan McCoy

[20:00] What answer would satisfy you?

[20:02] I just want...

[20:02] Like deciduous or coniferous?

[20:05] I would like to know that, yes, among other things.

Elliott Kalan

[20:09] So something that we'll see later is all the women are named after plants, and Nicolas Cage

[20:14] gets frustrated by this as if they're doing it to insult him, and when he meets later,

[20:17] he meets Sister Rose, he goes, of course, another plant.

[20:21] As if they're just doing it to bug him, which is hilarious.

[20:25] Nicolas Cage is like, I have nothing going on in my life, and I need to find a girl to

[20:28] make up for the girl I couldn't save, so I'm going to do this.

[20:31] He goes up to Washington State.

[20:32] He takes a boat up and sees a girl who looks like Rowan and imagines a truck hitting her

[20:36] on the boat and takes some pills.

Stuart Wellington

[20:39] This is also the moment where I'm like...

Dan McCoy

[20:40] Oh, yeah, the pills.

Stuart Wellington

[20:41] He's always taking those pills.

[20:42] Is Neil Lebut trying to remake Wicker Man or trying to remake Don't Look Now?

Elliott Kalan

[20:48] There's a little bit of both, and he's failing at both of them.

[20:52] So he's going to...

[20:53] He bribes a delivery pilot to take him to the island and then wades ashore to find some

[20:57] dour women who tell him this is private property.

[21:00] And they're with these two silent guys holding a sack of something.

[21:04] And the sack is wet, so I assume it's bleeding, and there's something struggling inside it.

[21:08] And they're like, take a look.

[21:09] And he goes to look, and it jumps before he can see what's in it.

[21:12] And he flinches, and they laugh at him, and he walks away.

[21:15] And we never find out what was in that sack.

Hallie Haglund

[21:17] But they're like, it's not your girl or something.

Elliott Kalan

[21:20] They say something like that.

[21:22] And the whole scene, I'm like, what is the point of this scene?

[21:26] I don't understand it.

Dan McCoy

[21:28] What do you think was in the sack?

Elliott Kalan

[21:30] Yeah, what do you think was in that sack?

Stuart Wellington

[21:31] I would say there's probably a bunch of raspberries and some kind of an animal that likes eating raspberries.

[21:39] Like a little bear cub.

Elliott Kalan

[21:41] So the bear cub is good.

[21:43] They reward it by giving it a couple minutes in the raspberry sack.

[21:48] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[21:49] And he's mad because when they start to open up the bag, they're like, my time's not done yet.

Elliott Kalan

[21:53] He's like, I've been counting in my head.

[21:55] I'm not done eating raspberries.

Dan McCoy

[21:57] You guys are really putting an emphasis on that P in raspberries.

Elliott Kalan

[22:01] That's how bears talk, Dan.

[22:03] That's how bears talk.

[22:03] They pronounce every letter in the word.

[22:05] They're like, nugget is falling, but I want to eat more raspberries.

[22:09] So then he goes, doesn't he go into like the local bar or hotel?

[22:10] You know, it's interesting though.

[22:11] Bears love honey.

[22:14] Oh, you're right, Hallie.

[22:15] Bears do love honey and dogs love trucks.

[22:17] Hmm, interesting.

[22:19] What?

[22:21] Let's move on.

[22:22] Okay.

[22:23] So he goes into the local-

[22:24] I want to explore this a little more actually.

[22:27] He goes into the local like inn or cafe and it's all women there and already he mutters

[22:31] to himself, huh, must be ladies night.

[22:33] And I'm like, fuck you.

[22:34] Come on, man.

[22:34] I miss that.

[22:36] And Willow works there and so does Sister Beach, a very humorless woman.

[22:41] And she is hilarious.

[22:43] Her performance is hilarious.

[22:45] And she serves him some mead and explains to him what mead is.

[22:48] And he sees a bee on the bar and he kills it by slamming his mug down on it, right?

Stuart Wellington

[22:52] But not until after he like takes a nice hearty gulp of that.

[22:55] You know what?

[22:56] That's all I really wanted in this movie is to see Nicolas Cage fucking choke down some mead.

Elliott Kalan

[23:02] Now, I've never had mead.

[23:03] Have any of you guys ever had mead?

[23:04] Yeah, of course.

[23:05] Yes.

[23:05] No.

[23:06] So what's it like?

Dan McCoy

[23:07] Well-

Stuart Wellington

[23:08] It's usually too syrupy sweet for my taste.

Dan McCoy

[23:11] Yeah, it's honey wine.

[23:12] It can be okay.

[23:14] I have a-

[23:16] So this will surprise not Stuart knowing the college that we went to together, but a classmate

[23:22] of ours had her wedding and her hobby was making mead.

[23:26] Cool.

[23:27] And so there was a bunch of mead at the wedding and, you know, it's not bad.

[23:31] I would not choose to drink it normally, but-

Stuart Wellington

[23:33] Uh-huh.

[23:33] But, you know, when you're hard up-

Dan McCoy

[23:35] But, you know, when you got the shakes, you'll drink anything, you know?

Elliott Kalan

[23:39] When on Summer's Isle, do as the Summer's Islers do, I guess.

[23:43] So, Hallie, you've never had mead, right?

[23:45] No.

[23:46] Okay.

[23:46] So what would you imagine it would taste like?

Hallie Haglund

[23:48] I thought it was like-

[23:49] I didn't know that it tasted sweet.

[23:51] I thought it was like more beer, like, you know, like a Guinness or something.

Elliott Kalan

[23:57] Oh, okay.

[23:58] Yeah.

[23:58] Like a porter or a scout.

[24:01] Yeah, exactly.

[24:01] See, because I always imagine-

[24:03] Or a Shabbat spia.

[24:04] Yeah, if you've ever been to Medieval Times, they serve you like a vegetable soup, but you

[24:08] don't have a spoon, because they didn't have spoons back then.

[24:10] Nope.

[24:10] And so you have to like have a bowl with a handle and you tip it into your mouth to drink

[24:14] it.

[24:14] I always assumed mead was kind of like that.

[24:16] Okay.

[24:16] Kind of like a low-grade vegetable soup that you drink with your other classmates on a

[24:23] field trip while you watch guys in kind of cloth night costumes knock each other into

Stuart Wellington

[24:26] And that's the same reason why they let you drink Coca-Cola there at Medieval Times, because

[24:31] they had it back then.

Elliott Kalan

[24:33] They had that back then because of a time portal.

[24:35] Cool.

[24:36] It was like-

Hallie Haglund

[24:37] How do you think the kid got in King Arthur's Court?

Elliott Kalan

[24:40] Oh, yeah.

[24:41] Remember that movie?

Stuart Wellington

[24:41] That's how that kid made his millions.

Elliott Kalan

[24:44] I mean, to be honest, if you had Coca-Cola producing facilities and you brought them to Medieval

[24:48] Times, you would become richer than the king.

[24:50] People would become addicted to that.

[24:52] Yeah.

[24:53] And also, back then, the water was not that good.

[24:55] So, you know what?

[24:56] Just Coke it down.

[24:58] Just drink Coke.

[25:00] That was Coca-Cola's original slogan.

[25:04] And you know, King Arthur would be like, ah, thou is the real one, baby.

[25:08] Uh-huh.

[25:08] Or was that Pepsi?

[25:09] That was Pepsi.

Dan McCoy

[25:10] Never mind.

[25:11] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[25:12] So, right around now, he finally finds one of the objects of his search.

[25:17] He finds Willow, once again, another Woodward.

Elliott Kalan

[25:22] I like how you said once again, even though that was the same one that you pointed out

[25:24] before.

[25:25] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[25:25] Then Sister Beach is a Woodward.

[25:26] There.

[25:27] I covered it.

[25:28] And we're the Bernstein.

[25:29] Yep.

[25:31] And so, he runs into Willow while they make up his room, I guess.

[25:36] The whole thing goes very quickly and strangely.

Elliott Kalan

[25:39] Yeah.

[25:39] And Willow's like, I don't trust anyone here.

[25:41] I know Rowan's been taken somewhere.

[25:43] And a bell rings and she's like, I gotta go.

[25:45] And she leaves.

Dan McCoy

[25:46] Can I say, we got sidetracked by talking about mead.

Elliott Kalan

[25:48] No, you cannot, Dan.

[25:49] You cannot say it.

Dan McCoy

[25:50] We got sidetracked.

[25:50] It's important.

[25:50] We got sidetracked by talking about mead.

[25:52] No, you can't say it.

[25:53] But Nicolas Cage killed the bee because he's allergic to bees.

[25:56] Oh, thank you.

[25:56] Yes, he's allergic to bees.

Elliott Kalan

[25:58] And this is reinforced when he is unpacking his bag and we see his bee EpiPens that he

[26:02] has brought with them.

[26:03] Which, either he has great foresight knowing that it's a honey producing island or he just

[26:08] brings them everywhere.

[26:09] I think that when you have a bee allergy, you bring your EpiPens everywhere, Elliot.

[26:13] Yeah.

Hallie Haglund

[26:13] What if he was going on like an Alaskan cruise, Dan?

[26:15] You have to bring it everywhere, Elliot.

Elliott Kalan

[26:18] That's the...

[26:18] Everywhere?

[26:19] Yes.

[26:20] Everywhere?

[26:21] Yes.

[26:21] You never know.

Hallie Haglund

[26:22] Even the bathroom.

Elliott Kalan

[26:24] It is one of those things.

[26:25] There would be a bee in that toilet.

Stuart Wellington

[26:26] Yeah, you can't spell bathroom without bee.

[26:28] I was thinking about the use of allergies in horror movies and how if you have to...

[26:37] As a filmmaker, you have to work a little bit harder because for people who don't have

[26:41] allergies, like Elliot just demonstrated, they don't seem quite as serious.

[26:45] They don't seem quite as scary.

[26:46] But if you do have them and you've suffered from them, it's terrifying.

[26:50] I just think it's like...

Hallie Haglund

[26:51] Yeah, I don't have allergies, which is why...

[26:54] Ah!

Stuart Wellington

[26:54] But like, for instance, in Hereditary, there's a scene where a character suffers from an allergy

[27:00] attack and it's horrifying and terrifying.

[27:04] But I don't feel like the allergy is really that scary in this movie.

Elliott Kalan

[27:10] No, they don't use it well.

[27:11] As someone who does have allergies, one, shame on you, Stuart, for shaming me.

[27:16] Not life-threatening ones.

[27:17] No, although one time I was in a friend's apartment.

[27:20] In Chicago, of all places.

[27:22] And there was so much animal hair all over the apartment that I could feel my throat starting

[27:26] to close up.

[27:27] And I was too polite to say anything because I was with some of my wife's friends and I

[27:31] still felt kind of awkward around them.

[27:32] And I was like, this is how I'm going to die.

[27:34] I'm going to suffocate to death because I don't want to say anything.

[27:37] Oh, yeah.

[27:37] You're allergic to animal hair.

Stuart Wellington

[27:38] I'm sorry, Elliot.

Elliott Kalan

[27:39] Yeah.

[27:39] No, it's okay.

[27:40] And then Danielle saw me and she was like, we got to get out of here.

[27:43] Hey, everybody, let's go outside.

[27:44] And I was like, oh, thank goodness.

[27:46] But okay.

[27:47] But no, it's true.

[27:48] They don't make much of his allergies.

[27:49] So it's like the movie, it's almost like the movie has to remind Nicolas Cage that he's

[27:52] allergic to bees in this because he just kind of seems to forget about everything.

Stuart Wellington

[27:56] There is a point where he finds himself in the exact center of what, like a honey patch?

[28:01] What do you call that thing?

[28:02] A place where there's a bunch of honeybees?

[28:05] Let's just say a honey patch.

[28:06] Yeah, a honey pot.

[28:07] All of a sudden he realizes that he's in way too deep and everywhere he turns he's surrounded

[28:12] by more hives.

[28:13] And you're like, why did you go this far in, buddy?

[28:16] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[28:16] And also, why do you pack your EpiPens but apparently don't have them on you at this

[28:20] point?

Elliott Kalan

[28:20] You take your gun everywhere you go but not your EpiPens.

[28:23] All right.

[28:24] When you're on Bee Island.

[28:25] So, and ironically, his favorite actress, Bee Arthur.

[28:29] Well, I guess that's ironic.

[28:30] I guess that's ironic.

[28:32] Yeah.

[28:32] I mean, because she was part B. That's why she had that name.

[28:35] Oh, okay.

[28:36] I mean, I guess that's foresight.

[28:37] It was from the waist down though and because she wore all those kind of like loose billowy

[28:41] clothes on the Golden Girls, it was hard to tell.

Hallie Haglund

[28:43] But there were always pantsuits.

[28:44] How can you hide that in pants?

[28:46] Mm-hmm.

Stuart Wellington

[28:47] Do you like slide part of your abdomen down one of the billowy legs of your pantsuit?

Elliott Kalan

[28:51] I have to assume they had to strap her abdomen and stinger to one of her legs.

[28:55] So that it was in one of the billowy legs of the pantsuit.

[28:58] Yes, exactly.

Hallie Haglund

[28:58] Wasn't she like a nude model in the beginning of her career?

[29:02] Let's look it up.

[29:03] I think she was.

Elliott Kalan

[29:04] Bee Arthur?

[29:05] I have trouble believing that.

[29:06] No, I think it's true.

[29:07] I think it's true.

Stuart Wellington

[29:08] Dan checks his Mr. Skin in the hot lane.

[29:11] Stu looked up the Rowan tree and Rowan before.

[29:15] I never heard the results of the Rowan tree.

[29:17] Oh, yeah.

[29:18] So yeah, this is an important part of the podcast where Stuart reads, the Rowans or mountain

[29:23] ashes are shrubs or trees in the genus Sorbus of the Rose family, Rosacea.

Elliott Kalan

[29:30] I gotta say, Stuart, that the genus Sorbus sounds like a band you would listen to.

Stuart Wellington

[29:34] The genus Sorbus.

Elliott Kalan

[29:37] Hey, guys.

[29:37] I went to go see genus Sorbus at St. Vitus the other night.

[29:40] It was pretty good.

Hallie Haglund

[29:41] Dan, you didn't look on the Wikipedia page.

[29:43] You're looking just for Google image.

Elliott Kalan

[29:46] This looks like it.

[29:47] Dan, just Google.

[29:47] Dan, just Google Bee Arthur nude.

[29:49] I did Google it.

[29:50] And there is a picture.

Dan McCoy

[29:52] She was not a nude model, but there was a naked painting by John Curran of Bee Arthur nude

[30:00] that sold, let's see, for one...

[30:07] Well, it's expected to sell.

[30:08] I don't know what it actually sold for, but this article says it's expected to sell for

[30:12] 1.8 to 2.5 million at Christie's.

Elliott Kalan

[30:17] So that's at Sotheby's and Christie's Mr. Skin auction?

Dan McCoy

[30:22] So for a couple of million dollars, you too could have a painting of Bee Arthur nude in

[30:26] your home, impending the desire of this person to sell.

Elliott Kalan

[30:31] Okay, so anyway, Nicolas Cage has a bad dream of that car crash we see.

[30:36] We're going to see that car crash scene with the truck many times throughout the movie.

[30:40] And he wakes up to see a little girl running around outside.

[30:42] He tries to find her by poking around in an old barn forever.

[30:47] It looks a lot like Tevye's barn from Fiddler on the Roof, just full of horses and stuff.

[30:51] And he falls through an old floor and then pulls himself back up, ending one of the two

[30:55] or three, I guess, thrills scenes in the movie.

Dan McCoy

[30:59] Yeah, I was watching this and being like, okay, I guess this movie is nominally like a horror

[31:03] film.

[31:05] And we're supposed to think that Nicolas Cage like almost falling through an old barn is

[31:12] terrifying.

[31:13] I mean, like, look, if I was in that position, yes, I would be terrified.

Elliott Kalan

[31:16] We've got to play it by Are You Afraid of the Dark Rules.

[31:18] Yeah.

[31:19] I would watch it as a kid and I would say, it's not scary to watch, but if I was in that

[31:22] situation, I would be scared.

[31:23] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[31:24] But watching it on a phone screen in a bar, I was not like, oh no, Nicolas Cage is going

[31:31] to die in this barn.

[31:33] And then who knows what the rest of the movie is going to be.

Elliott Kalan

[31:36] I'm not faulting, I mean, it is a bad scene and it's very boring, but I feel like you

[31:40] can't totally fault Neil LaBute for your decision to watch it on a phone at a bar.

[31:44] Uh-huh.

Stuart Wellington

[31:45] Yeah.

[31:45] Was this around the time where he goes back to his hotel room and he's like, has anyone

[31:50] been in my room?

[31:51] Did somebody, I'm missing some tapes.

[31:54] That was a good impression, Stuart.

[31:56] He sounded like it.

[31:57] He overhears some people, thank you, I've been working out.

[32:00] He overhears some people talking about the Wicker Man and he's like, is anyone, I'm missing

[32:04] my tape of Iron Maiden's Brave New World album with the leading single, The Wicker Man.

Elliott Kalan

[32:11] He overhears, Sister Beach is just like constantly casually talking about, she's like, yeah, yeah,

[32:16] yeah, we got to get ready for the ritual of death and rebirth.

[32:18] Yeah.

[32:18] And it's like, they're just so casually talking about the things that are supposed to be spooky

[32:22] in the movie.

[32:22] But it was, I wanted to make the point, which I feel like I have deja vu about this, so I may

[32:27] have said it at the podcast or somewhere else before, that this scene in the barn was when

[32:30] I realized, oh, this isn't a movie, this is me watching someone play like a point and click

[32:35] computer adventure game, like Myst or like Sam and Max Hit the Road or one of those type,

[32:42] or like a Zork type game where it's like, a non-text Zork game where it's like, where

[32:47] Nicolas Cage walks out of the inn and it's like, hmm, what location should I go to?

[32:50] The Woods, The Barn, Town Square.

[32:52] I'll go to The Barn.

[32:55] Item, flashlight.

[32:56] Use flashlight on stall.

[32:58] I see a horse.

[32:59] Okay.

[33:00] Use flashlight on stairs.

[33:02] Go upstairs.

[33:03] Okay.

[33:04] Oh, a crow.

[33:05] It's like, so much of this movie is him going to a location, having a perfunctory conversation

[33:09] with somebody where they give him some information and then him yelling at them and then leaving

[33:13] and going somewhere else.

Dan McCoy

[33:14] Well, and certainly like later on where he goes to, is it Frances Conroy?

[33:18] Is that the actress?

[33:19] Yeah.

[33:20] Like when he interacts with her and he sneaks in after she leaves and he's like, oh, I

[33:24] find book that explains everything.

[33:28] I find a letter, like photograph of Rowan.

[33:32] You know?

[33:33] It's just like, okay.

[33:34] I mean, like you'll come to see that they're leading him down the garden path.

[33:37] But if you didn't know that, it's so funny.

[33:39] It's like, okay, well, all these obvious clues have just been strewn about.

Stuart Wellington

[33:43] If you didn't know that, it would feel kind of like what they're trying to do in Under

[33:47] the Silver Lake, where this guy is like constantly searching for clues that validate his like

[33:53] detective work.

Elliott Kalan

[33:55] Yeah.

[33:55] And there's just, there's no atmosphere to any of this stuff.

[33:59] I think they made a mistake in setting an ostensible horror movie on a beautiful island

[34:04] where it's constantly kind of golden light.

[34:07] And there's just, it just looks gorgeous all the time.

[34:11] I mean, it works in Midsommar.

[34:14] Yeah.

[34:14] I mean, it works in the original Wicker Man too, but those are different types of movies.

[34:17] You know, the next morning at the cafe, his waitress, Lili Sobieski shows up to tell him

[34:22] why there is an empty little squeeze bear of honey on the table when this island is famous

[34:26] for its local honey.

[34:27] Turns out last year's honey crop was cursed.

[34:30] It was terrible.

[34:30] And on the wall of photos where there's a picture of the harvest girl at every year's harvest,

[34:35] last year's picture is missing.

[34:37] Uh-oh.

[34:38] And then Miss Beach once again is like, oh yeah, we got the festival fertility tomorrow.

[34:41] It's sacred.

[34:42] What of it?

[34:42] And Lili Sobieski does not recognize his photo of Rowan, she says, and says, when you

[34:46] leave, please take me with you.

[34:48] And he's like, what?

[34:49] And then walks away.

[34:52] Nicholas Cage in his perambulations, his aimless perambulations around the island, he next,

[34:57] this is one of the first like great funny scenes in the movie where he wanders into a one-room

[35:02] schoolhouse where Molly Parker as Sister Rose is teaching.

[35:06] And she goes, what is the man's role?

[35:08] And these two girls just go, phallic symbol, phallic symbol.

[35:11] And then he interrupts them and he's like, hey, I'm a cop.

[35:15] I'm looking for a girl who was missing.

[35:17] And they're like, look in that desk.

[35:19] And he looks at a desk and there's a raven trapped in it.

[35:22] And then they're like, we trapped a raven in there to see how long he could take it before

[35:26] he went insane.

[35:27] And he's like, that seems a little on the nose with what's going on in the movie.

[35:30] But okay, sure.

[35:31] And he sees the attendance book and sees Rowan's name is listed, even though everyone's like,

[35:36] I don't know who that is.

[35:37] And he's like, you're all liars.

Stuart Wellington

[35:38] You're liars.

[35:39] You're liars.

[35:40] And Molly Parker really plays up the like coily, like, I don't know, like sneaky thing.

Hallie Haglund

[35:47] Wait, do you guys recognize that actress?

Elliott Kalan

[35:49] Oh yeah, she was in Deadwood.

[35:50] She was in lots of stuff.

[35:51] She was in Six Feet Under.

Hallie Haglund

[35:53] Was she in?

[35:54] With Frances Conroy.

[35:55] Did anyone else watch that movie, Her Smell?

Stuart Wellington

[35:59] I haven't seen it yet.

[36:00] A friend of mine was part of the distribution team.

Hallie Haglund

[36:03] I think that she's in that.

[36:05] I'm going to look at that.

Dan McCoy

[36:06] But also, this is the scene in which she, a school teacher, misdefines the word quixotic.

[36:13] And then Nicolas Cage uses it in a totally wrong, different way later on.

[36:18] And she's like, yes, that's right.

Elliott Kalan

[36:20] I mean, she's not a very good school teacher.

[36:23] I think that comes across.

[36:24] And she's like, she does that coy thing.

[36:26] She's like, we don't talk about Rowan.

[36:28] She died.

[36:31] But we don't say dead here.

[36:32] We say she's in the air and in the clouds.

[36:34] How did she die?

[36:35] Oh, she'll burn to death.

[36:36] What did you say?

[36:37] Exactly what I meant to say.

[36:39] She burned to death.

[36:41] And it's like, come on.

[36:42] That's not what you said.

[36:42] Like, come on, movie.

[36:44] Like, ugh.

[36:45] And it's, again, as you guys mentioned, they're leading him into a trap.

[36:49] And if you don't know that, then you're like, this is a sloppy movie.

[36:52] Like.

[36:52] If you do that, you're like, these are sloppy trapsters.

Stuart Wellington

[36:55] You can make a movie about a guy who is in a deep investigation and in a situation where he can't kind of trust himself or trust the people around him.

[37:07] Or like, I don't know, like Jacob's Ladder or something.

[37:10] But this movie is not that movie.

Elliott Kalan

[37:12] No.

[37:13] It's so ham-hand.

[37:14] It feels like, I mean, and Lila Butte had made movies before this, but it feels almost like a college film trying to do that.

[37:20] But with a bigger budget.

[37:21] Nicolas Cage, he's like, well, that wasn't very helpful.

[37:24] And that's also the scene where she goes, I'm Sister Rose.

[37:26] And he goes, of course.

[37:27] And he goes, of course.

[37:28] Another plant.

[37:30] Another wood word.

[37:32] And Lila also, he's like, it's like, that's what you're catching on to?

[37:35] That everyone has plant names, but not any of this other stuff?

[37:38] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[37:38] And it's at this point that you're really like, okay, Nicolas Cage, you got to get off this island and get some backup.

[37:43] And the movie does a fairly good job, at least, of showing how trapped he is at this place.

[37:50] But again, to go back to the original movie, I prefer the original movie where,

[37:54] it seems like the detective probably could get off the island much earlier once he realizes that things are going badly.

[38:01] But he has this pig-headed confidence that because he's a moral officer of the law,

[38:08] that he will triumph and he can walk through any situation unscathed.

Stuart Wellington

[38:12] Just like how Nicolas Cage is a very strong man that can easily punch and kick his way out of any problem.

Hallie Haglund

[38:18] For the record, Molly Parker is not in her smell.

[38:21] I was mixing her up with Amber Heard.

Elliott Kalan

[38:24] Oh, okay.

[38:25] Oh, I mean, incredibly similar.

[38:27] They both, they look sound and act differently.

[38:30] But, you know, otherwise.

[38:32] Dan, I appreciate your use of the word pig-headed since later everyone's going to get them some animal heads.

[38:37] Nicolas Cage, he goes to a ruined graveyard looking for Rowan's grave.

[38:40] Willow's there and she's like, hey, by the way, you're her dad.

[38:42] Should I have mentioned that beforehand?

Hallie Haglund

[38:44] You guys, we're totally overlooking the fact that he takes off his coat all the time, even when he jumps in the...

[38:51] Okay, he has this coat that is a blazer.

Elliott Kalan

[38:55] Yeah.

[38:55] He wears it over a sweater vest.

[38:57] Yeah.

Hallie Haglund

[38:57] And it has patches on the elbows.

[39:00] But for some reason, he's willing to do anything and get as dirty as possible.

[39:04] But he always takes off his blazer.

[39:06] So, like, he jumps in the lake when he's like, he has a hallucination that Rowan is trapped under the dock and he jumps in the water.

[39:16] But first, takes off his blazer.

[39:19] Even though he thinks she's drowning.

[39:21] I mean...

[39:21] Yeah.

[39:22] Yeah, that's not a...

Stuart Wellington

[39:23] I mean, whether or not he takes his blazer off, she's going to be drowned or not drowned.

Elliott Kalan

[39:28] Because he thinks he sees her body.

[39:30] He starts seeing Rowan everywhere and he swims to it.

[39:32] And this is...

[39:33] Now we get to my favorite moment in the movie.

[39:35] Yeah.

[39:35] Where he wakes up.

[39:36] He's like underwater and he's like, ah, ah.

[39:39] And then he wakes up on the dock and he looks down.

[39:41] He's holding her wet, sodden body in his arms and goes, ugh.

[39:45] And then, without even giving you any time for it to, like, settle in,

[39:49] he wakes up again on the dock and goes, goddammit!

[39:53] And it's with such annoyance.

[39:56] And it is...

[39:57] They're trying to pull off, like, a double wake-up scare.

[40:01] Like a jump...

[40:01] Like a fake wake-up that becomes a dream.

[40:04] But it's so...

[40:05] They run through it so quickly and his response to it is so not scared but just so annoyed.

[40:09] He's like Bob Odenkirk in any Mr. Show sketch just being like, goddammit!

Dan McCoy

[40:13] What are you doing?

[40:13] I like how your misspeaking created a neologism there with a fake-up.

Elliott Kalan

[40:19] Oh, thank you.

[40:20] Yeah.

[40:21] It's a fake-up.

[40:22] You think they're waking up, but it's actually still a dream.

[40:24] But it is so...

[40:26] It feels like...

[40:27] I mean, and I wonder if this is it.

[40:28] That Neil Abute was like, what is a more commercial method for me to get across the idea that women are evil?

[40:35] I'll do a horror movie, I guess, but I'm not really that interested in the scares.

[40:39] So why don't I just rush through those as perfunct really as possible so I can get to the scenes of women bedeviling and laughing at Nicolas Cage and him hitting them?

[40:49] Because this movie totally lives up to...

[40:52] Until the very ending, it totally lives up to Margaret Atwood's quote that everyone's been bandying about for the past few years about how men are afraid women will laugh at them and women are afraid women will kill them.

[41:01] Because throughout the movie, women are laughing at Nicolas Cage and he responds by punching them in the face.

Stuart Wellington

[41:09] Yeah, it's really crazy.

[41:11] And I don't know what this says maybe about me, but I think it's really strange that when Willow reveals that he's Rowan's dad, that he never really considered that before this point.

[41:24] Like, it seems crazy to me that he didn't...

[41:26] That wasn't, like, the first thing he thought of when he started, like, saw the girl and he's like, we were engaged, like, doing...

[41:34] Like, he doesn't do any math.

[41:35] He doesn't do any attempt to be like, wait a minute.

[41:37] Maybe he thought she was a hoe.

[41:39] Like, he doesn't look at the picture and he's like...

[41:43] Always elegantly heading to the point, Hallie.

[41:44] Yeah, he doesn't, like, look at the picture and he's like, oh, maybe she's big for her age or something.

Hallie Haglund

[41:50] I mean, she doesn't really look like him.

Stuart Wellington

[41:54] She's always wearing that red sweater and he never wears a red sweater.

[41:56] She doesn't look like him.

[41:57] She looks like all of you.

Hallie Haglund

[41:58] He wears blazers.

[41:59] If she was wearing a blazer, that would be different.

[42:02] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[42:02] Daddy's, daddy's girl.

[42:04] If it was a photograph of her yelling at someone, you'd be like, oh, yeah, of course, that's my baby.

[42:11] Sure.

[42:12] Now, Hallie, you being the only woman here, aside from...

[42:15] I know, Dan, you've been kind of digging out your feminine side recently and I really like that.

[42:20] But, Hallie, being the only woman here, how did this movie strike you vis-a-vis it being about a man running around screaming at women?

Hallie Haglund

[42:26] I mean, it was so bad that I wasn't palpably offended by it because the misogyny didn't really resonate when it was executed so poorly.

[42:37] I wasn't really offended.

[42:39] That's fair.

Elliott Kalan

[42:40] That's fair.

[42:41] Okay, so Nicolas Cage, next, he's going to get some information from Dr. Moss, another plant name.

[42:47] Frances Conroy from Six Feet Under and many other things.

[42:50] And as mentioned before, when he gets to her house, there's just like photographs of rituals everywhere and all these books about burning people alive as sacrifices.

[42:59] He breaks in efforts.

Hallie Haglund

[43:00] She looked great in this movie, I will say.

[43:01] Yeah.

[43:02] There's very young-looking skin.

[43:05] Who's the makeup artist in this movie?

[43:07] That's what I want to know.

Elliott Kalan

[43:08] And Ellen Burstyn, they both look great in the movie.

[43:10] They look like women who are on top of their game and have nothing really to worry about other than arranging a sacrifice and making sure these bees produce honey.

[43:19] And otherwise, they just get to relax and enjoy the beautiful islands they live on.

Hallie Haglund

[43:23] And their beautiful long hair, which is hard to pull off when you get older.

[43:26] You know, your hair gets brittle.

[43:28] Is that what happens?

[43:29] I never knew that.

Elliott Kalan

[43:30] It turns into like peanut brittle?

Hallie Haglund

[43:33] Exactly.

[43:33] It's delicious, but it's hard to manage.

[43:35] Is that why we make snakes pop out of it?

Stuart Wellington

[43:38] Is that why when...

[43:39] That only happens to Medusa, Dan.

[43:40] Okay.

[43:41] When Grima is sapping Theoden's life energy, his hair gets all thin and brittle.

[43:47] But then when Gandalf kicks Grima to the curb, his hair gets all lustrous again, right?

[43:54] Is that why, Halle?

Elliott Kalan

[43:57] Until you said Gandalf, I was like, which thing is this?

[44:01] Which fantasy thing is this?

[44:02] Is this a Warhammer thing that he's talking about?

[44:05] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[44:06] So, and he goes and he finds a room full of babies in jars, like tons of babies in jars.

[44:12] Uh-huh.

Dan McCoy

[44:13] Yeah, you're like, what am I, at the Alamo Draft House in Brooklyn?

[44:15] Yeah, like more than the usual number of babies in jars.

Elliott Kalan

[44:19] I mean, like, you might...

[44:20] I can understand a local doctor having, like, one baby in a jar.

[44:23] Uh-huh.

[44:23] But the whole room, it's like, Dr. Moss, you want him to sit her down and be like, Dr. Moss,

[44:27] this is an intervention.

[44:28] You're a baby hoarder.

[44:29] Yeah.

[44:29] You are just hoardering too many babies in jars.

[44:31] And it's time to say goodbye to some of them.

[44:33] And she's like, no, it's the only thing that makes me feel safe is to hold on to these babies

[44:36] in jars.

[44:36] I might need them at some point.

[44:37] Exactly.

[44:38] And she's like, no, no, you just got to clean it out.

[44:40] And then he, like, takes Dr. Moss, like, on some excuse, he takes her away for the day

[44:45] and her relatives come and clean out all those dead babies in jars while she's gone.

[44:48] My baby wasn't in there.

Hallie Haglund

[44:51] What?

[44:52] I said my baby wasn't in there.

[44:57] Oh, good.

Elliott Kalan

[44:57] I'm so glad to hear that.

Hallie Haglund

[45:00] He was sleeping in his room while I watched the movie.

Elliott Kalan

[45:04] But you rushed in to double check to make sure that wasn't one of your babies?

Hallie Haglund

[45:07] Yeah, to be fair, we don't have a baby monitor.

[45:10] So actually, it could have been.

[45:12] But he was there this morning.

[45:14] So I don't think it was him.

Elliott Kalan

[45:15] So unless Dr. Moss kidnapped your baby, put him in a jar, and then returned him the next

[45:20] day.

Hallie Haglund

[45:20] In which case, she took very good care of him, and she could do it again.

Stuart Wellington

[45:24] And maybe I'm out of line here, but if your baby had been one of those babies, he would

[45:30] have been the best baby in a jar possible, right?

Hallie Haglund

[45:33] Yeah.

[45:34] Well, he would have gotten an IMDb page at least.

[45:37] What every mother wants for their baby.

Elliott Kalan

[45:43] So Nicolas Cage, he takes this opportunity to go and yell at Willow about not telling him

[45:47] about things.

[45:47] She's like, I'm sorry.

[45:48] And then they start making out.

[45:50] Uh-oh.

[45:50] You know that that's not what he should be doing right now.

[45:54] Nicolas Cage, he has like an interaction with one of the male laborers on the island who

[45:57] are all eerily silent.

[45:59] Almost like they're worker drones who can't think for themselves and just serve some sort

[46:05] of queen bee.

[46:06] Speaking of, he goes to Lady Summer Isle's house.

[46:09] Now, is she Lady Summer Isle or Sister Summer Isle?

[46:12] I couldn't remember.

[46:13] I think it's Sister Summer Isle, right?

[46:15] Okay.

[46:15] Summer Isle.

[46:16] Maybe because in the movie, because Christopher Lee is Lord Summer Isle.

[46:22] So maybe I thought she was Lady also.

[46:23] And she lives in this place that's full of stone beehives.

[46:26] It looks beautiful.

[46:28] He walks over.

[46:28] And this is the scene where he suddenly realizes he is surrounded by beehives.

[46:32] And the bees are like, it's Nicolas Cage.

[46:34] Get him.

[46:35] And they chase after him and he passes out.

[46:37] And he wakes up in the house where Dr. Moss has patched him up.

[46:40] With moss, I assume, and other herbal remedies that you would find around the island.

Dan McCoy

[46:43] I do think that if they plan on eventually, spoiler alert, sacrificing Nick Cage, it's kind

[46:50] of irresponsible for them to just let him roam around and maybe die from being stung by bees.

Elliott Kalan

[46:56] Well, Dan, you've put your finger on the major problem I have with the movie, which is if

[47:00] they are going to plan on sacrificing Nicolas Cage, which they are, why bother with all the

[47:05] fake mystery whodunit clue bullshit?

[47:07] Why not just lie to him to get him to the island?

[47:10] When he gets to the island, hit him over the head with something.

[47:12] He wakes up inside a wicker man and you light him on fire.

[47:15] Sacrifice accomplished.

[47:17] Ritual over.

[47:17] And you know what?

[47:18] All the time and energy you spent into this trap, you could spend maybe making sure your

[47:23] bee harvest is better than last time.

[47:25] Morons.

[47:25] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[47:26] I mean, you think with a name like Cage, he would be extra nervous about being imprisoned.

[47:31] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[47:31] To go back to the-

[47:32] And you'd think with a name like Smuckers, it has to be good.

[47:34] It's true.

[47:35] And yet sometimes it's not.

Dan McCoy

[47:36] Wait, question.

[47:37] Okay.

[47:37] Why-

[47:37] Yeah?

[47:38] Is this about Smuckers?

[47:39] Why wicker?

[47:41] You know, they got a deal with Pier 1 Imports, I guess.

Hallie Haglund

[47:44] I guess so, because they should have just called it Bee Man and then had him be in a little

[47:48] hive or something.

[47:49] Or call it Bee Movie.

[47:50] They're just throwing his wicker at the end, like it's a major plot point, but-

Stuart Wellington

[47:54] Yeah.

[47:55] Yeah.

[47:55] It's not like the island's chief export is wicker, and the whole time he's like, we're

[47:59] going to do something about all this wicker.

[48:00] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[48:01] Wicker Harvest is not good this year.

[48:03] That would have been a good movie.

[48:04] I do want to get back to Elliot's problem with the-

[48:07] Would it have been a good movie, Hallie?

[48:08] I do want to get back and address Elliot's problem with this movie just to say, again, in the

[48:13] original movie, you get the sense that they're toying with him because it is part of their

[48:18] pagan ritual that it is important that this man who, I think they say is a virgin, come

[48:25] of his own volition to the place where he's going to be sacrificed.

[48:28] Hey-o!

[48:29] And they're leading him down the garden path to sort of fulfill all these points on this

[48:34] ritual, whereas you don't necessarily get that sense in this movie.

[48:38] He's supposed to be a virgin?

[48:39] Yeah.

[48:40] But how's he supposed to have a baby?

Elliott Kalan

[48:42] In the original.

Stuart Wellington

[48:43] In the original.

[48:44] In this one, he has to be connected with somebody on the island, I think, by blood.

Elliott Kalan

[48:50] He has to be connected to the island by blood and have to have come of his own free will.

[48:54] But other than that, they could have just taken it.

[48:57] Like, there was no reason for them to be planting all these clues.

[48:59] I guess, you know what the answer is?

[49:01] It probably gets pretty boring on Summer's Isle.

[49:04] Yeah.

[49:05] The only things you have to do are teach kids about phallic symbols, make honey.

[49:11] Tending bees is hard work, but it's not the most exciting work.

[49:14] Or just sit around the inn drinking mead all day.

[49:16] Or think of new plant names.

Hallie Haglund

[49:18] They're just like making lists all day.

[49:20] They're like, have we thought of hyacinth?

Elliott Kalan

[49:26] Probably.

[49:27] And at a certain point, they're like, Heather, of course.

[49:30] Why did it take us so long to think of Heather?

[49:33] Laurel.

[49:34] We should have thought of that first.

[49:36] Because they're like, Thistle?

[49:37] Is that a name?

[49:38] Yeah.

[49:38] Has anyone ever been named Thistle?

[49:40] Sister Thistle?

[49:41] Does that make sense?

[49:42] Sister Fern?

[49:43] I guess we could do that.

Dan McCoy

[49:44] Isn't one of the fairies in Midsummer Night's Dream have Thistle in their name or something?

Elliott Kalan

[49:51] Maybe.

[49:52] Is she part of the movie?

Dan McCoy

[49:53] No, there's spider web and mustard seed, I know.

[49:55] Mustard seed.

Elliott Kalan

[49:56] Yeah.

[49:57] They're like, Sister Venus flytrap?

[49:59] Is that two on the nose about what this movie is about?

[50:03] Maybe.

[50:04] So anyway, this movie is about to kick into gear.

[50:07] Because he's about to come face to face with his arch nemesis, Lady Summerzile, Ellen Burstyn.

[50:13] And they play a little game of verbal cat and mouse as she talks about her goddess religion and bees.

[50:18] And Nicolas Cage eventually is just like, look, I'm going to kill everybody here if you don't help me.

[50:24] He just cannot put up with her condescending whimsy, I guess.

[50:30] Nicolas Cage, he finds a doll in a grave.

[50:33] And he follows the sound of crying to a flooded crypt, which someone locks him in.

[50:36] And he hallucinates for a while.

[50:38] And then Willow lets him out.

[50:38] He's like, hey, I found...

Stuart Wellington

[50:39] He stays down in that flooded cistern for all night, right?

[50:44] Yeah, he's there all night.

[50:46] And you better believe it because he didn't want to drown.

[50:48] He was probably up all night.

[50:49] He must be so strong.

Hallie Haglund

[50:51] Wait, what did you say?

[50:52] I said he must be so strong.

[50:54] Because he...

[50:55] Think about...

[50:56] I have to rock my baby to sleep.

[50:58] My arms are exhausted at the end.

[51:00] Sorry, I keep talking about my baby.

[51:02] But it's kind of my thing right now.

[51:06] It's my grand.

Stuart Wellington

[51:07] And similarly, staying alive was Nicolas Cage's character's thing, which is why he hung on so tightly to that, what, grate?

[51:15] Grating to keep above the water so he didn't drown in the flooded...

Hallie Haglund

[51:18] But imagine doing that the whole night.

[51:19] I mean, I guess you're in water, so you get a little help.

Stuart Wellington

[51:23] No, but he's got to like tread water, right?

[51:25] When your clothes get super wet, they become lighter, right?

[51:28] They float better.

Elliott Kalan

[51:30] And the whole time, you know, he's thinking, thank goodness I took my blazer off.

[51:33] I did not want my blazer to be adding to my body weight.

[51:36] We're getting wet.

Hallie Haglund

[51:37] Those patches soak up a lot of water.

Elliott Kalan

[51:40] So he found Rowan's sweater down there.

[51:42] It doesn't really matter.

[51:43] He goes to the late...

[51:44] Sister Summer Isle's house to yell at her, but her house...

[51:46] All he finds is an old man covered in bee stings and a nude woman covered in bees.

[51:50] Okay.

[51:51] That's all there is at the house, I guess.

[51:52] Yeah.

[51:52] But meanwhile, she is in the biggest, most beautiful bedroom.

[51:56] It looks like they hired Tarsim Singh to just decorate this one room for her.

[52:01] There's lots of like huge draperies.

[52:03] And they're like, they talk cryptically about how, I don't know, he's going into his trap.

[52:06] And there's nothing to look at.

Stuart Wellington

[52:08] It's like the Emperor's throne room in a Star War movie.

Elliott Kalan

[52:11] Yeah.

[52:12] So this is...

[52:12] Now we're at, just my opinion, the best sequence in the movie.

[52:15] He steals Sister Rose's bike at gunpoint.

[52:17] She has an animal mask.

[52:18] And he's like, take that mask off.

[52:19] He gets mad at masks when this went on.

[52:21] And he just rides around town on a rampage, yelling at little girls and pulling animal

[52:25] masks off their head, kicking open doors and yelling, rowing into them.

[52:28] And it's just like, he is just on a tear.

Hallie Haglund

[52:31] Him ripping the masks off of children was my favorite part.

[52:35] Except for when he held a gun to that woman and was like, I need your bike, ma'am.

[52:39] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[52:39] I watched that bicycle scene and I was like, I couldn't imagine anyone thinking during the

[52:45] production of the movie that that could be anything but ridiculous.

[52:48] Him bike checking this woman's bike at gunpoint and then like kind of wobbly racing off on

[52:54] it.

Elliott Kalan

[52:56] Just the fact, he's like, he keeps, he is so, at this point, I think it's supposed to be,

[53:01] obviously, I'm not sure if we're supposed to be sympathizing with him or if we're supposed

[53:03] to be like, oh no, he's gone too crazy.

[53:06] But he comes off as a madman who is just like, he literally just shot after shot of him

[53:12] breaking doors down and yelling, rowing, rowing.

[53:15] And then every time he comes across a mask, just knock it off somebody's head.

[53:18] Like a big bully.

Stuart Wellington

[53:19] And almost always the result of him doing that leads to, it leads to women and children

[53:25] laughing at him.

Elliott Kalan

[53:28] That's the other thing.

[53:28] I think that's what also makes the scene palpable is no one seems particularly terrified or scared

[53:33] of him.

[53:33] They're just like, oh, there he goes again.

[53:36] Goofy Nick.

[53:37] Hates masks.

[53:38] Hates women.

[53:39] Looking for Rowan.

[53:40] Oh boy.

[53:42] He goes, he finds the pilot that brought him to the island.

[53:45] He's, the pilot is dead and full of bees.

Dan McCoy

[53:47] His mouth is all stitched up.

[53:49] Remember?

Stuart Wellington

[53:49] Yeah.

[53:50] Oh yeah.

[53:50] For like the first real gross out scare slash genuine threat of violence in the movie,

[53:57] they put almost no effort into showing this guy's dead body.

[54:01] Or like Nicolas Cage just sees it and he's like, oh, and walks away.

Elliott Kalan

[54:05] It's like gross bees.

[54:10] He goes to, he, we overhear Sister Beach and Sister Oak.

[54:13] They're joking a little about how she's putting on weight and she can't quite fit into a bear

[54:17] costume anymore.

[54:19] And they hint at having killed the pilot.

[54:21] And then Nicolas Cage walks up and without a word, just punches Sister Beach in the face.

[54:27] Meanwhile, everyone's getting ready for the big harvest ritual.

[54:31] They're wearing animal masks.

[54:32] They've got face paint on.

[54:33] They're dancing and parading to pipe music.

[54:35] It all feels very Renfest precious.

[54:37] While Nicolas Cage is having a, you know, knuckles, knuckle dragging balls out,

[54:42] Lili Sobieski fight.

[54:43] Yeah, yeah.

[54:44] Balls to the walls.

[54:46] Which ends with him back kicking her into the wall of photos.

[54:50] And she just, I don't know if she's dead or what.

Stuart Wellington

[54:52] Well, she's certainly not dead because she shows up later.

[54:55] But like, she gives a look like they were, I feel like Neil LeBee was like, okay,

[54:59] hold on her for a moment.

[55:01] We will digitally add some birds tweeting around her head.

[55:05] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[55:07] And much like the bike jacking earlier, this is a bear suit jacking.

[55:12] Like, Nicolas Cage steals the bear suit.

[55:15] He steals Sister Beach's bear suit and shows up in the parade.

Stuart Wellington

[55:17] And if I learned anything from Midsommar, putting on a bear suit in this situation is a good idea.

[55:23] No spoilies.

[55:25] Well, I mean, it's fine.

[55:26] I mean, I assume it's supposed to be just the winger man.

[55:28] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[55:30] So he's wearing that bear suit and he joins the parade.

[55:34] And he's like, Willow, it's me in the bear suit.

[55:36] And she's like, stop bothering me.

[55:38] This is important.

[55:39] And she sees that Rowan is tied to a stake.

[55:41] And there's all sorts of ritual talk that they do.

[55:44] And then he only has one superpower, punching women.

[55:47] So he punches a woman and rescues Rowan.

[55:49] And they're chased into the woods by villagers.

[55:51] But it turns out, guys, as we've mentioned, it was all a trap.

[55:55] As Admiral Ackbar might say, it's a trap.

[56:00] Rowan was just the lure to get Nicolas Cage there so they could sacrifice him.

[56:04] And they spend, I think, six minutes explaining this to Nicolas Cage.

[56:09] Because either they thought the audience was dumb or they just were like, you know what?

[56:12] Let's just admit it.

[56:12] Nicolas Cage's character is dumb.

[56:14] He doesn't understand.

[56:15] So they have to go over every single point of their plan.

Stuart Wellington

[56:17] I remember, I mean, it's been a while since I've seen the original.

[56:21] But I remember the reveal, like, up until the moment when he has rescued Rowan.

[56:27] And then she runs off.

[56:29] Like, up until that point.

[56:31] In the original, you still assume the little girl's the sacrifice.

[56:35] And when she runs off, it's a genuine twist.

[56:38] Like, it's a real shock.

[56:39] And I don't feel like there was enough.

[56:42] It wasn't a surprise in this.

[56:44] But maybe it was, you know, because I've seen enough folk horror movies at this point.

Dan McCoy

[56:49] You guys.

[56:50] A moment I liked here is Nicolas Cage pulls out his gun.

[56:54] He's, like, trying to hold them off at gunpoint.

[56:55] And finally, he, like, tries to shoot them.

[56:58] And his gun is empty of bullets.

[57:00] And I believe it's Willow, like, holds out her hand and, like, drops the bullets.

[57:04] And I'm like, okay, has she just been holding these the whole time?

[57:07] Yeah.

[57:08] The whole day she's been holding those bullets.

Elliott Kalan

[57:10] Yeah, she's going to shine them on.

[57:12] Anticipating the reveal.

[57:14] And we learn that Willow is actually Sister Summersile's daughter.

[57:19] What?

[57:19] All the women are in it together.

[57:21] Ah.

[57:22] It's a plot.

[57:23] Sisters are doing it for themselves.

Dan McCoy

[57:25] And by it means sacrificing Nick Cage.

[57:28] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[57:29] And don't we see in the crowd, don't we see the mother and daughter who were in the car accident in the beginning?

[57:36] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[57:36] And the cop.

[57:37] And the lady cop.

[57:38] And the lady cop.

[57:39] Because every single woman in the world.

[57:41] How deep does this go?

[57:43] It's all the women.

[57:43] Well, and then-

[57:44] If only when Nicholas Cage's mom was there.

[57:47] Yeah.

[57:47] Nicholas Cage's mom.

[57:48] Hallie walks out.

[57:49] Hillary Clinton and Jill Stein walk out.

[57:51] No.

[57:52] And Melania Trump.

[57:53] It's everybody.

Stuart Wellington

[57:53] And Tulsi Gabbard.

Elliott Kalan

[57:56] And Tulsi Gabbard and Hillary Clinton are like, we're actually friends.

[57:59] See?

[58:00] And Queen Elizabeth II is there.

[58:02] The ghosts of famous women from history are there.

[58:04] Rosa Parks is there.

[58:05] Mary Todd Lincoln is there.

[58:07] Cleopatra is there.

[58:08] All of human history has been women waiting for this moment when they could show to Nicholas Cage that he is impotent before them.

[58:14] Yeah.

[58:14] Nicholas Cage representing, of course, all manhood.

[58:17] Yeah.

[58:17] Because he is the most manly man there is.

Hallie Haglund

[58:19] Sofia Coppola was even there.

[58:21] And he was like, but we're family.

[58:23] And she's like, I don't care.

Elliott Kalan

[58:26] She's like, we're cousins.

[58:28] Barely.

[58:29] I wish that Nicholas Cage had had a moment where he turns to the camera and he was like, and steals the line from the end of the movie, The Uninvited, where he goes, oh, that was almost my mother-in-law about Sister Summer's Isle.

[58:40] But because if anyone doesn't know, The Uninvited is a genuinely scary ghost movie with Ray Moland that ends with him making a joke about how that ghost was almost his mother-in-law.

[58:49] Oof.

[58:49] And it's like, wait, what?

[58:52] Why are we leaving on a gag?

[58:53] Okay.

[58:54] So there's two different versions of the scene that happens next.

[58:57] In the Uninvited version, they pour bees in his face and he screams for a while.

[59:02] Oh, okay.

[59:02] That was the home release version.

[59:04] If you went on Amazon Prime like I did, you had the theatrical release version where you hear him screaming and going, ah, my legs, he crushed my legs, like it's a radio play.

[59:14] Well, we see them bringing him to the giant Wicker Man statue and they put him in and it's full of goats and chickens.

[59:19] Yeah.

[59:19] And Rowan lights it on fire and the ladies are all chanting, the drone must die with big smiles on their faces.

Dan McCoy

[59:24] Thank you, Elliot, for telling me this.

[59:25] Because I was like, is this a Mandela effect moment?

[59:28] I swear there was a scene in this movie where they put like a cage full of bees over Nicolas Cage's head.

Hallie Haglund

[59:34] Yeah.

[59:34] I feel like we used to watch that clip.

[59:37] Yeah.

[59:37] And I'm like, what?

Elliott Kalan

[59:39] Where is that?

[59:40] Yeah, we did.

[59:40] So that's from a different version of the movie that was released only for home viewing.

[59:43] It was too hot for TV, right?

[59:46] Yes.

[59:46] Well, it was too hot for movie screens, I guess.

[59:48] But that's the famous Wicker Man scene where he's like, be killing me, won't bring back your goddamn honey.

[59:54] And they're just pouring bees on his face and he's like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[1:00:00] But also only in the theatrical release, not in that unrated version.

[1:00:03] So as far as I could tell, is the next scene, the little epilogue.

[1:00:06] So Nicolas Cage is dead.

[1:00:07] He's been burned to death in a Wicker Man.

[1:00:08] Is the six months later scene.

[1:00:10] Oh, yeah.

[1:00:11] Six months later comes up on screen in papyrus font.

[1:00:14] The greatest font of all time, as everyone knows.

[1:00:17] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:17] We think like the mummy, like Arnold Vosloo and his gang is going to show up and start eating everybody with scurits.

[1:00:23] Or a couple of Navi.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:25] Oh, yeah, that's fair.

[1:00:28] And we're at a bar in a city.

[1:00:30] James Franco is there with his buddy.

[1:00:32] And Jason Ritter.

[1:00:33] And Jason Ritter.

[1:00:33] Yeah, yeah.

[1:00:34] So it's James Franco and Jason Ritter.

[1:00:35] Wait, was this in the version that I watched?

Hallie Haglund

[1:00:37] The Amazon Prime version?

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:39] Yeah, yeah.

[1:00:40] Yes, this is in the Amazon Prime version.

[1:00:41] I think I felt so.

[1:00:42] Maybe when it said six months later, you're like, I don't care anymore.

[1:00:45] And you turn it on.

[1:00:46] Like, I'll watch this in six months.

[1:00:47] Like, the movie ended six months ago.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:49] You thought that six months had passed and you were like, better catch up on all that sleep that I missed.

[1:00:53] As far as I was watching this movie.

[1:00:54] I was like, my baby has learned to walk.

[1:00:58] You're missing all his great early moments while you're watching The Wicker Man.

[1:01:01] He's like, mama, mama.

[1:01:04] You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:01:04] After The Wicker Man.

[1:01:05] After The Wicker Man, honey.

[1:01:06] Too busy.

[1:01:07] So James Franco and Jason Ritter are two bros at a bar just looking for tail.

[1:01:11] And they cannot find any until Lili Sobieski and her friend give them a come-hither look.

[1:01:17] And they start hitting on them.

[1:01:19] And there is a surprisingly long conversation between James Franco and Lili Sobieski about how he's at the police academy.

[1:01:25] He really wants to help people.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:26] Yeah, he's like, I just finished the police academy.

[1:01:28] And she laughs.

[1:01:28] And I'm like, I get it.

[1:01:29] Those movies are pretty funny.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:32] So you think, I assumed that he had graduated.

[1:01:35] But you're saying that he finished watching all the police academy movies?

[1:01:37] Yeah, that's why she laughed.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:38] Because she thinks they're hilarious.

[1:01:40] And she says...

[1:01:41] Bobcat Goldthwait's in some of them.

[1:01:42] Steve Goodenberg's in a few.

Hallie Haglund

[1:01:45] Aren't they in all of them?

Dan McCoy

[1:01:46] No, no.

[1:01:47] He joined later on.

Hallie Haglund

[1:01:48] Which one?

[1:01:49] Steve Goodenberg or Bobcat Goldthwait?

Dan McCoy

[1:01:50] Bobcat Goldthwait.

[1:01:51] Steve Goodenberg left early.

[1:01:53] Bobcat Goldthwait joined late.

[1:01:55] So he showed up as a villain in part two.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:57] But he didn't actually join the squad until part three.

[1:02:00] Oh, okay.

[1:02:01] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:01] And then, was he in Miami with the others?

[1:02:03] Of course.

[1:02:04] Everyone's in Miami.

[1:02:05] What about the mission to Moscow?

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:06] With Tackleberry and Hightower and Motor Machine.

[1:02:10] Was Hightower and all?

[1:02:10] The citizens went on parole.

[1:02:12] Remember?

[1:02:12] Patrol.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:13] Oh, citizens on patrol.

[1:02:14] That was the one I watched a lot.

[1:02:17] The police are like, hey, just to make sure we can...

[1:02:20] Guys, everybody in town is on parole right now.

[1:02:22] Let's just like...

[1:02:23] Let's crack down on all this stuff, okay?

[1:02:26] You know that there is somebody...

[1:02:29] There's some guy in his 50s in Hollywood,

[1:02:31] some screenwriter,

[1:02:32] who has in his closet like a police academy

[1:02:34] in space spec script that he wrote

[1:02:36] that he's just still waiting to pitch to Steve Guttenberg.

[1:02:39] But anyway, I would call it Space Academy.

[1:02:42] So Lili Sobieski's like,

[1:02:44] hey, where are you going after this?

[1:02:46] And he's like, home.

[1:02:46] And she goes, can you take me with you?

[1:02:48] Or can I go with you or whatever it is?

[1:02:50] And he's like, yeah.

[1:02:51] And then we hear the sounds of bees buzzing

[1:02:53] and Nicolas Cage screaming as we fade to credits.

[1:02:56] And I want to tell you, this movie, I looked it up,

[1:02:58] this movie came out after Spider-Man.

[1:03:00] So James Franco was already kind of a movie star in a way.

[1:03:04] And he's appearing in this like tiny moment in The Wicker Man.

[1:03:07] So what's going on?

Stuart Wellington

[1:03:08] Do you think he owed...

[1:03:09] I mean, it's like Aaron Eckert

[1:03:10] being in the very beginning of the movie.

[1:03:13] Maybe he owed Neil LeBute a favor or something.

[1:03:15] I mean, there were...

[1:03:15] Oh, could be.

Hallie Haglund

[1:03:16] I also...

[1:03:17] Ellen Burstyn and Francis Conroy,

[1:03:20] they're like...

[1:03:21] They were big stars.

[1:03:22] This was 2006, right?

Stuart Wellington

[1:03:23] Yeah, it was like right after Six Feet Under wrapped up.

Hallie Haglund

[1:03:26] Yeah, there's no reason that all of these good people

[1:03:28] should have been in this movie.

Stuart Wellington

[1:03:28] Francis Conroy was in...

[1:03:30] I think that they all heard that like...

Hallie Haglund

[1:03:31] They all heard that Nicolas Cage was in the movie,

[1:03:34] but they didn't know yet that he was in all these bad movies.

Dan McCoy

[1:03:37] So they were like, oh yeah, it'll be fine.

[1:03:39] And at the time,

[1:03:39] Neil LeBute was much more respected than he is now.

[1:03:43] Like, this is kind of what ruined him a little bit.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:45] Well, Aaron Eckert was in In the Company of Men.

[1:03:48] That was one of the movies that like helped him get bigger.

[1:03:50] So that makes sense why he'd be in there.

[1:03:52] But apparently, according to Wikipedia,

[1:03:54] Paul Rudd is the man pulled over by Nicolas Cage

[1:03:57] in the first scene.

[1:03:57] But I don't...

[1:03:58] I'm not sure I'm sure about that.

[1:04:01] But here's the difference.

[1:04:03] Those people were all being paid money to be in this.

[1:04:05] Whereas maybe James Franco did it for like college credit.

[1:04:08] Yeah.

[1:04:09] I mean, it's certainly possible.

[1:04:12] So the movie is over.

[1:04:13] The women, unpunished,

[1:04:15] continue to lure men to Summer's Isle

[1:04:18] to sacrifice them for their honey harvest.

[1:04:21] And I just have to say,

[1:04:22] it doesn't answer the question I really want answered,

[1:04:24] which is,

[1:04:25] so how's the next harvest go?

[1:04:26] Like, was Nicolas Cage a good enough sacrifice?

[1:04:28] Like, what do you guys think?

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:31] I mean, clearly not.

[1:04:32] They're already sending out more drones.

[1:04:35] Yeah.

[1:04:35] To make more honey.

[1:04:36] Well, they need one every year, right?

[1:04:38] Yeah, I guess you're right.

[1:04:39] I mean, do they need...

[1:04:40] I guess they do need one every year.

Hallie Haglund

[1:04:41] Well, why was the...

[1:04:42] Well, then why was last year so bad?

Dan McCoy

[1:04:46] It's a good question.

Hallie Haglund

[1:04:47] They never really addressed that.

[1:04:47] I thought this was to make up for the difference.

Dan McCoy

[1:04:50] Yeah, I feel like it's implied

[1:04:51] that they don't always have to do a sacrifice.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:54] Oh, I see.

[1:04:54] I thought it was like they sacrificed just like a real doof.

[1:04:57] Or...

[1:04:57] They sacrificed like Eddie Deez in the year before.

[1:05:00] Oh.

[1:05:00] And God was like...

[1:05:01] And the goddess was like,

[1:05:02] No, thank you.

[1:05:03] Seriously, this is what you're giving me?

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:04] But, I mean, also the idea could be that...

[1:05:07] It could highlight that actually sacrificing somebody has no effect.

[1:05:11] And there's no magic.

[1:05:13] And there's no God.

[1:05:14] Guys...

[1:05:14] I mean, that's fair too.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:15] That's a fair reading of the movie.

[1:05:17] Guys, do you think...

[1:05:17] They're actually...

[1:05:18] It's actually not the case.

[1:05:19] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:05:20] Do you think that the cause...

[1:05:21] You know, like, colony collapse with bees is a real problem.

[1:05:24] Do you think it's because we're not sacrificing enough Nicolas Cage's?

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:28] Yeah.

[1:05:28] I mean, to be fair, let's look at the facts.

[1:05:30] We've sacrificed zero Nicolas Cage's so far up to this point.

[1:05:33] And bees are disappearing and dying off everywhere.

[1:05:35] I think the only way to test the hypothesis is to sacrifice Nicolas Cage and see what happens.

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:39] But, I mean, that would probably spell doom for this podcast.

[1:05:44] That's true.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:46] We make it like Travolta-miss or something like that.

Dan McCoy

[1:05:49] He can finally, you know, have his wish of, you know, being put in that pyramid in New Orleans, though.

[1:05:55] So, I think he'll be happy.

[1:05:56] I mean, I don't know if that's a wish.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:57] I mean, those are end-of-life plans.

[1:05:59] I don't know if I'd call it a wish, though.

Stuart Wellington

[1:06:01] Yeah.

[1:06:02] By, like, it's not like you're, like, signing up for cremation or organ doning doesn't mean, like, donating.

[1:06:09] You're not like, oh, please, take him out of me right now.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:13] This is what I want the most.

[1:06:15] When I had my, I had a birthday recently, and when I blew out the candle, I wasn't like, oh, I just wish that someone takes my eyes from out of my body right away.

Stuart Wellington

[1:06:23] Yeah.

[1:06:24] You'd only do that if you were on a really cool spaceship and you didn't need those eyeballs anymore.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:28] Oh, no, because I'm going to be living in hell after I go through that wormhole.

[1:06:32] That movie, of course, Mars Needs Moms.

Dan McCoy

[1:06:35] Let's put a bow on this one and say our final judgments, whether it's a good, bad movie, a bad, bad movie, or a movie you kind of like.

[1:06:44] Let's let the guests go first.

[1:06:46] Hallie, what do you have to say?

[1:06:49] She's got a very pensive look on her face.

[1:06:51] I mean, it's somewhere in the middle.

Hallie Haglund

[1:06:55] The Zac Efron movie you guys had me watch was my favorite.

[1:06:59] The Kirsten Dunst movie you made me watch was my least favorite.

[1:07:03] I don't know.

[1:07:03] Which was the Zac Efron movie?

Dan McCoy

[1:07:05] It was the one where he was like a DJ.

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:06] The DJ one?

[1:07:06] Yeah.

[1:07:07] Oh, these are your friends?

[1:07:08] No, no.

[1:07:08] We are your friends?

[1:07:09] The one, because I was in We Are Your Friends.

[1:07:12] I think you were filling in for Stew Balls over here in the one where he was dating and Michael B. Jordan was in it.

[1:07:19] And Miles Teller.

[1:07:20] Oh, right.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:21] The moment when?

[1:07:22] Yeah.

[1:07:22] Or that feeling when?

[1:07:22] Yeah.

[1:07:23] That moment when?

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:23] Jesus, God.

[1:07:24] I love that one.

[1:07:25] That movie's gone.

Dan McCoy

[1:07:26] That was my favorite.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:26] That's the one where they take Viagra and then they,

[1:07:29] they have to pee with boners so they're laying across the toilet seats with their penises dangling into the toilet.

[1:07:34] I can't believe I missed this movie.

[1:07:36] That's not how penises work.

Hallie Haglund

[1:07:37] I love that.

[1:07:39] But then that stupid Kirsten.

Dan McCoy

[1:07:40] What was the Kirsten Dunst one?

Hallie Haglund

[1:07:41] And I'm a big fan of Kirsten Dunst.

Dan McCoy

[1:07:43] Upside down or not.

[1:07:44] Something like that.

[1:07:45] Right.

[1:07:45] Where there's planets that are next to each other.

[1:07:48] Oh, yeah.

[1:07:49] Oh, right.

[1:07:49] I forgot about that one.

[1:07:51] There's one planet that's a good planet and the other one's a bad planet.

[1:07:52] I hated that.

Hallie Haglund

[1:07:53] That was so boring.

[1:07:54] So this was like in the middle.

[1:07:55] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:56] Okay.

[1:07:57] That's been Hallie in the hot seat.

Dan McCoy

[1:07:59] Yeah.

[1:08:00] I'm going to say like, I feel like when this movie came out, everyone heralded it as like

[1:08:05] a new good, bad classic.

[1:08:07] And I can't, I don't think I can go with people on that one.

[1:08:10] It's boring.

[1:08:10] It's pretty boring.

[1:08:12] It's only entertaining for like the last 10 minutes of the movie.

Elliott Kalan

[1:08:16] Yeah.

[1:08:16] I think this movie really benefited in that way from the rise of YouTube.

[1:08:20] Yeah.

[1:08:20] Around that time.

[1:08:21] Because you could see just the crazy clips one after another.

[1:08:25] And because there were a lot of super cuts people did of like, oh, the crazy moments from

[1:08:28] Wicker Man.

[1:08:29] And they cut out, yeah, the parts where Nicolas Cage is literally just riding a bicycle around

[1:08:33] a beautiful island.

[1:08:34] A lot of it looked like.

Dan McCoy

[1:08:36] Elliot, yet again, by interrupting me, you have scooped me.

[1:08:38] That was what I was going to recommend that people do instead of watch the Wicker Man all

[1:08:42] the way through is look up the YouTube super cut, which is very funny.

Stuart Wellington

[1:08:46] Yeah.

[1:08:46] If you don't watch the super cut, you're basically just watching Nicolas Cage run around the grounds

[1:08:50] of the Mohawk Mountain House.

[1:08:52] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:08:54] I mean, the Mohawk Mountain House, to be fair, is spookier looking than anywhere in this island.

Stuart Wellington

[1:08:59] Yeah.

[1:08:59] You figure any place you turn, you're either going to run into a ghost or, I don't know,

[1:09:05] some New York celebrity that's slumming it.

[1:09:08] I, I don't know.

[1:09:10] I, you know, I have actually never seen this movie.

[1:09:13] Oh, wow.

[1:09:14] And I enjoyed it quite a bit.

[1:09:16] It is very dumb.

[1:09:19] I would say it's a good, bad movie because I think it's, there's, it's so bafflingly dumb

[1:09:24] and there's so many dumb scenes.

[1:09:26] But I guess maybe if I got to watch it, I don't know, it like Joubin style two times speed

[1:09:31] or just a super cut, I might like it even more.

[1:09:34] But yeah, I don't know.

[1:09:35] I'd say good, bad.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:36] I would also call it a good, bad movie, but it is, you do have to get through some of

[1:09:41] the more boring parts, but it's not nonstop good, bad the way some of the other movies

[1:09:46] that we've given that appellation to are.

S5

[1:09:56] There's nothing quite like sailing in the calm international waters on my ship, the SS Biopic.

Hallie Haglund

[1:10:03] Avast.

[1:10:04] It's actually pronounced Biopic.

S5

[1:10:07] No, you dingus.

[1:10:09] It's Biopic.

[1:10:10] Who the hell says that?

Hallie Haglund

[1:10:12] It's Biopic.

S5

[1:10:13] It comes with the words, the biography, and pictures.

[1:10:17] If you would.

[1:10:17] All right, that is enough.

[1:10:19] Ahoy.

[1:10:20] I'm Dave Holmes.

[1:10:20] I am the host of the rebooted podcast formerly known as International Waters, designed to

[1:10:26] resolve petty but persistent arguments like this.

[1:10:29] How?

[1:10:30] By pitting two teams of opinionated comedians against each other with trivia and improv games,

[1:10:35] of course.

[1:10:35] Winner takes home the right to be right.

[1:10:38] What podcast be this?

S6

[1:10:40] It's called Troubled Waters, where we disagree to disagree.

[1:10:44] Hi, I'm Joe Firestone.

[1:10:46] And I'm Manolo Moreno.

[1:10:47] And we're the hosts of Dr. Game Show, which is a podcast where we play games submitted by

[1:10:51] listeners regardless of quality or content with in-studio guests and callers from all

[1:10:56] over the world.

S7

[1:10:57] And you can win a custom magnet.

[1:10:58] A custom magnet.

[1:10:59] Subscribe now to make sure you get our next episode.

S6

[1:11:02] What's an example of a game, Manolo?

S7

[1:11:03] Pokemon or medication.

[1:11:05] How do you play that?

[1:11:06] You have to guess if something's a Pokemon name or medication.

[1:11:10] Medication.

[1:11:10] First time listener, if you want to listen to episode highlights and also know how to participate,

[1:11:16] follow Dr. Game Show on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

[1:11:19] We'd love to hear from you.

[1:11:20] Yeah, it's really fun.

S6

[1:11:21] For the whole family.

[1:11:23] We'll be every other Wednesday starting March 13th and we're coming to Max Fun!

[1:11:27] Snorlax.

[1:11:28] Pokemon?

[1:11:28] Yes.

[1:11:29] Nice.

Dan McCoy

[1:11:30] Well, let's move on to our sponsors.

[1:11:34] Oh.

[1:11:34] Give them a little air time.

[1:11:36] The Flophouse is brought to you in part by Casper.

[1:11:39] And it's a sleep brand that makes expertly designed products to help you get your best

[1:11:44] rest one night at a time.

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:47] Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[1:11:48] Are there other mattresses that help you rest multiple nights at a time?

Stuart Wellington

[1:11:51] I wish.

[1:11:53] No, I don't.

[1:11:53] It's when you stack a bunch of mattresses on top of each other and there's no pee at

[1:11:57] all underneath them.

Dan McCoy

[1:11:58] Oh, I was going to say the problem with those products is there's a pee.

[1:12:01] That's why you got to get Casper.

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:02] Oh, okay.

[1:12:03] I guess I get, well, you know.

[1:12:04] I heard different things.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:05] I mean, the internet, you know, there's differing information out there.

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:08] You get a one star, you get a five star, you never know.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:10] Yeah, but you don't want to have to worry about whether or not there's a pee.

[1:12:14] Why don't you get a Casper mattress instead?

[1:12:16] There's only a single pee in Casper.

[1:12:18] It's in the name Casper.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:20] You know where the pee is, right in the middle of the word.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:23] The original Casper mattress combines multiple supportive memory foams for a quality sleep surface

[1:12:29] with the right amounts of both sink and bounce.

[1:12:33] Affordable prices because Casper cuts out the middleman and sells directly to you.

[1:12:40] Get out of here, middleman.

[1:12:42] You can be sure of your purchase with Casper's 100-night risk-free sleep-on-it trial.

[1:12:48] Get $100 towards select mattresses by visiting casper.com slash flophouse and using flophouse at checkout.

[1:12:57] That's casper.com slash flophouse and using flophouse at checkout.

[1:13:02] Terms and conditions apply.

Hallie Haglund

[1:13:04] Is this mattress really comfortable?

[1:13:05] I have to get a new mattress.

Dan McCoy

[1:13:07] Yeah, yeah.

[1:13:08] You can use that code too, Hallie.

[1:13:09] I have a Casper mattress.

[1:13:10] I like it quite a bit, actually.

[1:13:12] Is it green?

[1:13:14] Is it green?

[1:13:15] Yeah.

[1:13:16] Why is that your question?

Hallie Haglund

[1:13:19] Like, not the color.

Stuart Wellington

[1:13:21] Oh, that actually makes more sense.

[1:13:24] For a second, I'm like, you just dip it in Easter egg dye.

[1:13:27] It'll be fine.

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:28] I thought it was because she's like, how am I going to hide a pee under that thing if it's not green?

Hallie Haglund

[1:13:33] All right, I'll stop.

[1:13:35] Go ahead.

Dan McCoy

[1:13:35] Oh, is it green?

[1:13:36] Okay, I got you.

[1:13:38] Because some are.

[1:13:40] Guys, I believe I sent you both Jumbotrons to read.

[1:13:44] Is anyone queued up and ready to go?

[1:13:46] I'm going to check my email.

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:48] Now, you sent me two, Dan.

[1:13:49] Are they both for me?

[1:13:50] Wait, did I send you two?

[1:13:51] I didn't get one at all.

[1:13:53] Oh.

[1:13:53] Okay, you sent them both to me, I think.

[1:13:55] A business and a personal.

[1:13:56] Elliot.

[1:13:57] I'm happy to do both.

Stuart Wellington

[1:13:58] So you pick one, and I'll do the other one when Dan finds it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:00] Yeah, I'll hand Stuart the other.

[1:14:03] Okay, so am I doing the business one or the personal one?

Dan McCoy

[1:14:05] You get to choose.

[1:14:06] That's the great thing about this Jumbotron situation.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:09] Okay, I'll do the personal one.

[1:14:11] Okay, so this is a message for Cody, and the message is from Jana.

[1:14:15] And the message is,

[1:14:17] Baby crabs, how happy I am to be celebrating two years and Christmas with you.

[1:14:21] Thank you for everything you do for me, not the least of which is introducing me to the other boys, the original peaches.

[1:14:26] I don't know how I would sleep without them in my ear every night, finding clues and talking to Stu.

[1:14:30] I love you.

[1:14:31] That's love with three capital L's.

[1:14:33] You, my darling.

[1:14:34] Love, Mr. Baby.

Hallie Haglund

[1:14:36] He listens to you every night to go to sleep.

[1:14:38] Uh-huh.

[1:14:39] Dan does that, too.

Dan McCoy

[1:14:41] Well, not myself.

[1:14:43] I don't listen to myself to go to sleep.

[1:14:44] Yeah, you tune out.

[1:14:45] Dan listens to a flop house.

[1:14:46] You tune out your parts, but then you hear our parts, right?

[1:14:47] Oh, yeah.

[1:14:48] I just like having my friends comforting me.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:50] Dan painstakingly removes his voice from every episode and then listens to it as he sleeps.

[1:14:54] Uh-huh.

[1:14:55] It's like Garfield without Garfield.

[1:14:57] Mm-hmm.

Stuart Wellington

[1:14:57] I got a j-j-jumbotron.

[1:15:00] ABC Movies is the world's only movie podcast.

[1:15:05] Every week, film geek Caleb Shively and writer Chris Chaffin talk both smartly and dumbly about one great new movie currently in theaters.

[1:15:17] And one older movie that's related to it in some way, whether it's by the same director or just had a big influence on it.

[1:15:26] Recent episodes include The Irishman and On the Waterfront, Parasite and The Host, and Midsommar and Force Mejure.

[1:15:39] That's ABC Movies, actually best choice movies.

[1:15:44] So search for ABC Movies on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

[1:15:49] And I apologize if I messed up any names there.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:52] So we're just broadcasting falsehoods now.

[1:15:55] You gotta have a gimmick.

[1:15:56] That's most of what our show is anyway.

[1:15:57] Guys, you gotta have a gimmick.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:58] It's a big claim to say that it's a world's only movie podcast.

[1:16:02] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:16:02] It's a big enough claim that you might want to check it out.

[1:16:06] Mm-hmm.

[1:16:07] Check it out to disprove it.

[1:16:09] Google it.

Hallie Haglund

[1:16:10] World's only movie podcast.

Dan McCoy

[1:16:14] Let's move on to letters from listeners.

Stuart Wellington

[1:16:16] So let's open up that mailbag.

[1:16:18] Oh, wow.

[1:16:19] That mailbag's pretty dirty and dusty after 300 episodes.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:23] Yeah.

[1:16:23] Let's blow some dust off of that mailbag.

[1:16:26] Do you hear the pipes?

[1:16:28] A pipe and a fiddle in the background?

[1:16:30] Perhaps some light strumming?

[1:16:32] Oh, open your mailbag.

[1:16:36] I'll tell you a tale.

[1:16:37] A tale of 300 episodes.

[1:16:41] Episodes here.

[1:16:42] Episodes dear.

[1:16:43] 300 episodes strong.

[1:16:46] The tale begins with a man called Dan.

[1:16:49] Doing his best.

[1:16:51] Doing what he can.

[1:16:52] But what he could and what he should

[1:16:55] were not the same thing you will see.

[1:16:57] He called his friend Stuart.

[1:17:00] Stuart, nothing rhymes with that.

[1:17:03] Stuart was his name.

[1:17:05] And Stuart was his game.

[1:17:08] For Stuart was very much all about games.

[1:17:11] Dan had, you know, three names.

[1:17:13] Dan, Kirk, and then McCoy.

[1:17:15] Those are the three names for Dan.

[1:17:16] And they had another guy who I will not mention

[1:17:20] at this point in the history.

[1:17:22] For there was some kind of thing that happened there.

[1:17:25] The records are spotty.

[1:17:27] Nobody knows.

[1:17:28] Nobody cares.

[1:17:29] Because there was a change in the offing.

[1:17:33] And that change's name was Elliot.

[1:17:36] Elliot descended from on high.

[1:17:38] Descended perhaps from a mountain or a cloud.

[1:17:41] Descended and he was very squeaky and loud.

[1:17:43] Elliot decided to join the gang.

[1:17:45] And so we had three adventurers.

[1:17:47] We, Dan and Stuart and the guy whose names are to thee.

[1:17:50] And they became the Flophouse guys.

[1:17:53] The Flophouse guys.

[1:17:54] What a surprise.

[1:17:55] Who should know when they were born.

[1:17:57] That this day upon this morn.

[1:17:59] That 300 episodes would have flown by.

[1:18:02] 300 episodes with these three guys.

[1:18:04] 300 episodes with the Flophouse.

[1:18:07] That is the tale of the Flophouse.

[1:18:09] 300 more perhaps.

[1:18:11] We'll see.

[1:18:11] We're not making promises.

[1:18:12] You or me.

[1:18:14] 300 episodes is quite a lot.

[1:18:16] 300 episodes.

[1:18:17] Oh it's so hot.

[1:18:18] Because I live in Los Angeles now.

[1:18:20] Where the temperature never gets quite below 50.

[1:18:24] All right.

[1:18:25] Well.

[1:18:26] So Stu went and got a beer.

Stuart Wellington

[1:18:28] When's Elliot going to sing his episode 300 song?

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:31] That's a very good question.

[1:18:33] Here comes the second chapter.

[1:18:35] Of the epic story of the Flophouse.

[1:18:37] Why did you do that Stuart?

[1:18:38] Fast forward 300 years in the future.

[1:18:40] You got to get a beer.

[1:18:41] And Hallie went and peed.

Dan McCoy

[1:18:43] So I'm the only one here listening to all this shit.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:45] In the year 2319.

[1:18:48] The oldest year we've ever seen.

[1:18:51] When the seas have dried and the air is on fire.

[1:18:53] And yet the Flophouse guys did not expire.

[1:18:57] Cursed as they were to continue this show.

[1:18:59] Cursed as they were to continue.

[1:19:01] As winds blow.

[1:19:02] As tornadoes and hurricanes.

[1:19:03] Floods and famine and fire.

[1:19:05] And other disasters hit the earth.

[1:19:06] The Flophouse continues.

[1:19:08] They hunkered down in a bunker.

[1:19:10] With canned foods and canned movies.

[1:19:12] They decided that they should go until the earth was destroyed.

[1:19:16] The sun went supernova.

[1:19:17] But even then a little of the Flophouse survived.

[1:19:21] And so to you who are listening now.

[1:19:24] Far off millions of years in the future.

[1:19:27] Reach out your hands and grasp a mote of dust.

[1:19:31] You must.

[1:19:32] For it is all that's left of the Flophouse.

[1:19:35] So that's the end of the second part of the song.

[1:19:37] The third part goes like this.

Dan McCoy

[1:19:38] No, no.

[1:19:38] There's no third part.

[1:19:40] Okay.

[1:19:42] How is the kitchen getting water?

[1:19:43] But she can hear from there.

[1:19:46] Use the water in the fridge.

[1:19:48] Use the water in the fridge.

[1:19:49] There's a pitcher.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:51] No, no.

[1:19:52] This is much better than my song.

[1:19:53] Thanks, guys.

[1:19:56] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:19:56] No, the water's in the pitcher in the refrigerator.

[1:19:59] In Dan's apartment.

[1:20:00] Which is...

[1:20:01] What's the address again, Mr. Chris?

Dan McCoy

[1:20:03] 123 Fake Street.

[1:20:04] Okay.

[1:20:05] America, the U.S.

[1:20:08] Okay.

[1:20:09] So is that the town?

[1:20:10] Not even the beautiful anymore, I guess.

[1:20:13] 12345.

[1:20:15] So this first letter is from Benedict, last name withheld.

Elliott Kalan

[1:20:24] Cumberbatch.

[1:20:25] Cumberbatch.

[1:20:25] Mm-hmm.

Dan McCoy

[1:20:26] And Benedict writes...

[1:20:28] I'm reading very slowly so...

[1:20:31] Oh, really?

[1:20:32] Allie can get back with her glasses of water.

[1:20:34] Glasses are so big.

[1:20:36] These glasses are so big, Hallie says.

Elliott Kalan

[1:20:39] It's just taking so much time to fill it with water.

Dan McCoy

[1:20:41] Yeah.

[1:20:42] Benedict writes...

[1:20:43] Dear Peaches, on a recent podcast, you mentioned 16 Candles and alluded to its problematic nature.

[1:20:53] That is one of the many films that I loved when I first saw them as a kid, but have not aged well.

[1:20:58] Yeah.

[1:20:58] Due to them having moments, characters, or entire premises that were racist, slash sexist, slash homophobic, or just generally culturally insensitive.

[1:21:07] I'd add movies such as Revenge of the Nerds, Breakfast at Tiffany's, Mr. Mom, and Eddie Murphy's Delirious to that list.

[1:21:14] And I'm not even going to go into movies from the 40s, 50s, and 60s.

[1:21:18] My question to you three is this.

[1:21:20] Can you think of any films from the 80s or earlier that are unexpectedly progressive?

[1:21:25] Or is everything made before Clinton kind of racist and sexist and homophobic?

Elliott Kalan

[1:21:31] As opposed to Clinton, who, of course, was not sexist or homophobic at all.

Dan McCoy

[1:21:36] Sincerely.

[1:21:36] Come on, man.

[1:21:36] Benedict, last name of the...

[1:21:37] I think he was just using it as a marker of time.

Elliott Kalan

[1:21:39] I know, I know.

[1:21:40] It just seemed ironic to me that the man who signed the Defense of Marriage Act and was also like a sexual predator in a way.

[1:21:51] Anyway.

[1:21:51] Don't ask, don't tell.

Stuart Wellington

[1:21:53] Yeah.

[1:21:54] Yeah, that's true.

[1:21:57] Yeah.

[1:21:57] So, I mean, obviously, I think it's a little bit of shorthand to write off all movies of that time period as having those traits.

[1:22:05] But, I mean, it's...

Hallie Haglund

[1:22:07] What about the crying game?

[1:22:09] I actually never saw that.

[1:22:11] But the subject matter.

Dan McCoy

[1:22:17] It's been years.

[1:22:18] I have no idea how it would hold up.

Elliott Kalan

[1:22:20] I mean, the crying game is also from 1992.

[1:22:22] So, I guess it's technically before Clinton's presidency.

[1:22:25] But...

Stuart Wellington

[1:22:26] What about this movie I haven't seen?

[1:22:29] Okay, so, I'll jump in.

[1:22:33] Obviously, I think 9 to 5 probably holds up.

[1:22:37] I think Dirty Dancing is surprisingly progressive in some ways.

[1:22:43] Particularly with the subplot about the young woman getting an abortion.

Elliott Kalan

[1:22:48] I was going to mention, there's a movie from 1962 called Advise and Consent, which is about the confirmation process for a cabinet officer, secretary of state, I think.

[1:23:00] And there's a character in it who's a senator, I believe, who is blackmailed because he is secretly gay and he is having a gay relationship.

[1:23:09] But the way that the relationship is handled is not in a way that is judgmental or sinister.

[1:23:15] And it's, I think, the first time in an American movie that you see a gay bar.

[1:23:18] And the gay bar is presented as a bar that men go to.

[1:23:21] Yeah.

[1:23:21] There's nothing weird about it.

[1:23:22] There's nothing out of the ordinary or strange or gross or scary about it.

[1:23:28] And so, it's like the character is taken advantage of by people because he has this secret.

[1:23:34] But the movie seems to have the point of view of like, it would be better if he just didn't have to have this secret.

[1:23:38] Like, he is not judged for being gay.

[1:23:40] And the gay bar is not a scary place to go.

[1:23:42] And I remember watching it and being like, oh, I'm surprised.

[1:23:44] This is like a surprisingly progressive view of what it is like to be gay at a time when it was still mostly unspeakable in America.

Stuart Wellington

[1:23:52] Dan, are you preparing your defense of Animal House right now?

[1:23:56] I am.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:57] He's like, guys, if it takes place in the future and all the women are robots, then it's okay.

Stuart Wellington

[1:24:03] I wonder, what about, I mean, what about something like Rocky Horror Picture Show?

[1:24:07] Would that be like, I don't know.

[1:24:10] Like, it feels like it's transgressive, but I don't necessarily think it's being judgmental.

[1:24:14] But I could be coming from a place of privilege and have no idea what I'm fucking talking about.

Elliott Kalan

[1:24:19] No, I think Rocky Horror Picture Show is, I mean, I haven't seen it in years.

[1:24:24] But like, when you watch it, it feels like it's a movie made by outsiders for outsiders.

[1:24:28] Like, the things that are kind of like tabooish or shocking in it.

[1:24:32] The characters are so delighting in it and are not, and the fact that every single character in it is kind of sexually malleable.

[1:24:41] But the reason that they end badly is because the Transylvanians are like, hey, Frank and Frodo, like, you're spending so much time enjoying yourself.

[1:24:50] Like, we're supposed to be invading this planet.

[1:24:51] Like, it's not related to their choices of bed partners or anything like that.

Dan McCoy

[1:24:56] I want to say, I'm having a hard time coming up with specific examples.

[1:25:00] But I do feel like before the Hays Code came into effect, like, a lot of early Hollywood movies treated sexuality and kind of like the idea that, like, both women and men might have sexual desires and, like, you know, find pleasure in that.

[1:25:18] With a little more sophistication than later on when sort of champions of, quote, morality came in and tried to clean up depictions of such things.

[1:25:30] Like, I don't know.

[1:25:32] I can't think of a good example.

[1:25:33] But I feel like I've watched some early movies and I'm surprised by how, like, equitable the male-female relationships feel and how, like, satisfying the romantic relationship is.

[1:25:50] I don't know.

Elliott Kalan

[1:25:51] It kind of depends movie to movie, but there's definitely more room in there for that.

[1:25:55] Yeah.

[1:25:55] Hallie, what do you think?

[1:25:57] I don't know.

[1:25:58] Okay.

[1:25:59] But you had – there are movies like – is it Babyface?

[1:26:02] The one where Barbara Stanwyck is sleeping her way to success through the people at this – the men at this company.

[1:26:09] And the movie is like – it feels like she is – and she's punished for it by losing a man that she loves.

[1:26:16] But it feels like the movie is like, yeah, this is what she's been forced – this is the only way she has to get out of her situation.

[1:26:20] Like, the movie is like, yeah, I guess we have to punish her at the end, but we're not – our heart's not really in it, you know.

Dan McCoy

[1:26:25] And that's one of those pre-code movies that people point to a lot.

[1:26:29] Um, okay.

[1:26:30] Okay.

[1:26:30] You know, I just picked out two this time.

[1:26:33] The last –

[1:26:33] You got another hard question for us to answer.

[1:26:35] The second and –

Elliott Kalan

[1:26:36] Dan, what I like about it is that we had – you had this question much longer than any of us did.

Dan McCoy

[1:26:42] Well, you seem to think that I look at the questions before I send them to you in the morning.

[1:26:48] Like, I decide what looks like an interesting thing.

[1:26:52] But we have – I have this big backlog of questions that I'm just filing through, and I see them maybe a minute before you see them.

[1:27:00] So it's not –

[1:27:00] Okay.

[1:27:02] This one is from M. Last Name – or, sorry, M. Rest of Name withheld.

[1:27:07] Moriarty.

[1:27:07] Wow.

[1:27:08] Obviously, if he's going to just give an initial.

Elliott Kalan

[1:27:10] Well, let's look at the letter.

[1:27:11] I have a series of clues for you.

[1:27:13] Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.

Stuart Wellington

[1:27:14] I, the Napoleon of crime.

Dan McCoy

[1:27:19] M. writes,

[1:27:21] Hello, Peach People.

[1:27:22] It's Macavity.

[1:27:24] It's a trope in horror movies to have a character, usually the villain, be killed only to dramatically open his or her eyes later to reveal the threat is not over slash an impending sequel.

[1:27:37] My question to you is, in what non-horror movie would this trope be most interesting and or misplaced?

[1:27:45] What if, at the end of Up, the old man's wife opened her eyes, revealing that she was alive the whole time?

[1:27:51] Absurdly yours, M. Rest of Name withheld.

[1:27:54] I think at the end of Citizen Kane, Kane should leap up and be like, of course, my sled, and rush in and pull it out of the fire.

Stuart Wellington

[1:28:05] Like Charlie's grandpa?

[1:28:09] Yeah.

Hallie Haglund

[1:28:11] Did you guys ever see Dying Young with Julia Roberts?

Dan McCoy

[1:28:16] And Campbell Scott?

[1:28:18] Yeah.

[1:28:18] I'm aware of it.

[1:28:19] I haven't seen it.

[1:28:19] Maybe that one.

[1:28:20] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:28:22] I would say, I feel like it would, I don't know how, but like Conan the Barbarian, after Conan hacks off Thulsa Doom's head and tosses it down the steps,

[1:28:34] like if his eyes opened up and he was like, ah, that would be pretty cool.

[1:28:39] Yeah.

[1:28:40] Or, obviously, if at the end of Grave of the Fireflies, if the little girl was like, I'm not dead, that would probably undercut the movie.

Hallie Haglund

[1:28:49] What about Sixth Sense?

[1:28:55] The twist is, he was alive the whole time.

Dan McCoy

[1:28:58] And they're what, they're trying to gaslight the kid so they can get his jewels or something?

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:05] That would be so funny.

[1:29:06] I think Allie won this one.

Dan McCoy

[1:29:07] I don't know, but Elliot, what do you got?

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:08] I don't even, look, I don't even have any answers as good as that.

[1:29:11] We should just move on.

[1:29:13] The only, the answer that I was going to have that I thought would be funny is The Passion of the Christ.

[1:29:17] And I'm like, wait a minute, that is the ending of The Passion of the Christ.

[1:29:19] Hold on.

Stuart Wellington

[1:29:22] Hey, let's turn.

[1:29:23] Yeah, the end of Butch Cassidy and Sundance Kid.

[1:29:27] Yeah, it goes out of the freeze.

Dan McCoy

[1:29:30] And they jump out the back window.

[1:29:33] The end of Old Yeller.

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:40] Bambi's mom shows up.

[1:29:42] It's like, it's time to get revenge.

Stuart Wellington

[1:29:44] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:29:45] The end of Old Yeller, Old Yeller standing in the doorway with a gun.

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:51] Rabies me, rabies you.

Dan McCoy

[1:29:55] Hydrophobia.

[1:29:57] Anyway, so this is the 300th episode, as we said.

[1:30:04] And so in lieu of recommendations, we had decided to take a little trip down memory lane, talk about what the podcast has meant for us, how things have changed.

[1:30:16] I don't know.

[1:30:16] We didn't really, we kind of vaguely thought of this notion and then didn't really plan much out.

[1:30:23] So who knows what the segment's going to be.

Stuart Wellington

[1:30:26] Yeah.

[1:30:27] So I expected Dan to have something prepared.

[1:30:30] I mean, this is kind of the time of the podcast where I would like to recommend a little movie.

[1:30:37] It's about a young man who should be inheriting a castle.

[1:30:45] And his brother is inheriting that castle.

[1:30:47] Now, this young man is chained into a basement cell.

[1:30:51] Okay.

[1:30:51] And his mother dies.

[1:30:52] Okay.

[1:30:53] Follow me here.

[1:30:54] Now, he doesn't know what to do.

[1:30:57] He breaks himself out.

[1:30:59] He chews off his thumb.

[1:31:00] He probably rips off his own ding dong.

[1:31:03] The movie is called Castle Freak.

Dan McCoy

[1:31:05] I appreciate the bit that you're doing, Stuart.

[1:31:10] The fact that it contradicts directly what I introduced might be a problem.

[1:31:15] I'm just, if we're going to give each other notes.

Stuart Wellington

[1:31:16] No, I know.

[1:31:17] That's fair.

[1:31:18] Yeah.

[1:31:18] I mean, I guess we've been doing the show a long time.

[1:31:23] 12 years.

Elliott Kalan

[1:31:24] Did you guys think when you started, because again, I wasn't there at the very beginning.

[1:31:27] How long did you think it would last when you first started doing it?

Dan McCoy

[1:31:30] I think Stuart assumed it would last until I lost interest.

Stuart Wellington

[1:31:33] Yeah, probably.

[1:31:33] I mean, I remember Dan suggesting it and me having, I mean, this was 2007.

[1:31:39] So when he's like, do you want to do a podcast?

[1:31:41] I was like, what's a podcast?

Hallie Haglund

[1:31:44] You're like, it's a year after the Wicker Man's been made.

[1:31:47] I don't know how we would do it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:31:51] The, yeah, this is a PWM timeline.

[1:31:58] The, and I think the first couple episodes we recorded in my bedroom, like my bedroom in my apartment.

Dan McCoy

[1:32:04] Yeah.

[1:32:04] With a single microphone, a USB microphone plugging directly into my computer that I think I had also made like a kind of a homemade shock mount where I just strapped a few rubber bands across like a Tupperware dish and put the, stuck the microphone in that.

[1:32:25] Mm-hmm.

[1:32:26] So.

Elliott Kalan

[1:32:27] That kind of ingenuity would become a hallmark of Dan's production.

Stuart Wellington

[1:32:30] Yeah.

[1:32:30] Right, Dan?

[1:32:31] Years later, later when Marty Scorsese makes a movie about the early days of the Flophouse.

Elliott Kalan

[1:32:37] I mean, I don't know how many years later it's going to be because Marty's kind of getting up there in years, but.

[1:32:41] No, no, no.

[1:32:42] They'll just use de-aging technology on him.

[1:32:45] Oh, okay.

[1:32:47] And then for a long time with the Flophouse, it was not a particularly formal or even scheduled thing, right?

Dan McCoy

[1:32:55] Yeah, we, in the early years, we, I don't, like, I think it was you, Elliot, who introduced the idea of like, hey, guys, we can come up with a schedule ahead of time and that will help us stay on schedule.

[1:33:10] But that was like four or five years in.

Elliott Kalan

[1:33:12] Yeah, we should have hit 300 a lot earlier because otherwise it was like, oh, we haven't done an episode in a little while.

[1:33:18] Are you guys free tonight?

[1:33:19] Yeah, I guess so.

[1:33:20] Okay.

Dan McCoy

[1:33:21] Yeah, and well, I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't quite to that level, but it was like, I'd be like, uh, hey, in a couple days, are you okay?

[1:33:29] And like, if someone wasn't able to be there, I'd be like, okay, we're just going to get a guest host in.

[1:33:35] And, uh, and so a lot of that early stuff was very uneven and erratic.

Stuart Wellington

[1:33:40] That was why Hallie had to watch a movie with Kirsten Dunst and two cities above each other.

[1:33:46] Garbage.

Elliott Kalan

[1:33:47] Yeah, I don't even remember that movie.

[1:33:49] Like, I remember that it exists, but I don't remember anything about it.

[1:33:52] Hallie, what do you remember about it?

[1:33:53] Hallie, you've been on how many episodes of the show?

[1:33:55] Probably at least three.

Stuart Wellington

[1:33:58] And at least one live show, right?

Hallie Haglund

[1:33:59] I remember those three.

Stuart Wellington

[1:34:02] Did you do the, you did a Fifty Shades of Grey?

Hallie Haglund

[1:34:04] Oh, yeah.

[1:34:05] And I've done the live show.

[1:34:07] Uh-huh.

Elliott Kalan

[1:34:07] And, uh.

[1:34:09] That was the Fifty Shades of Grey one, wasn't it?

[1:34:10] Oh, right.

[1:34:11] The live show?

Hallie Haglund

[1:34:12] Um, yeah.

[1:34:13] Oh, I was the zookeeper.

[1:34:15] I did the zookeeper.

[1:34:16] Oh, cool.

[1:34:16] Yeah, I missed that one too.

[1:34:18] Yeah.

[1:34:18] Uh, I think that was your frequent sub.

[1:34:21] Yeah, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:34:22] Did you feel a lot of pressure having to be my substitute?

[1:34:25] Well, no, because I've never listened to the podcast.

[1:34:28] Oh, I, I don't, I don't technically blame you.

Hallie Haglund

[1:34:32] No.

[1:34:33] Uh, no.

[1:34:34] Uh, yeah, I did.

[1:34:37] Mm-hmm.

[1:34:38] Mm-hmm.

[1:34:39] Mm-hmm.

Elliott Kalan

[1:34:39] Mm-hmm.

[1:34:40] Mm-hmm.

[1:34:40] So, they.

[1:34:41] I looked it up.

Dan McCoy

[1:34:42] There are 14 episodes tagged with Hallie's name on the website, although there may be even

[1:34:48] more episodes, because I don't think I figured out how to use tags until later on in our process.

Elliott Kalan

[1:34:54] I mean, but we also talked about Hallie a lot, right?

[1:34:56] Because Hallie is one of those performers where when she's not around, you're just like,

[1:34:59] what's Hallie doing?

[1:35:00] Mm-hmm.

[1:35:00] Where's Hallie during this?

[1:35:01] Yeah.

[1:35:01] What's going on with Hallie?

[1:35:02] Yeah.

Hallie Haglund

[1:35:02] Oh, changing diapers.

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:04] And so, how has your life changed since you started with the Flophouse?

[1:35:07] Do you think you'd be a mother now if you hadn't been a Flophouse guest?

Hallie Haglund

[1:35:11] No.

[1:35:12] No.

[1:35:13] I.

[1:35:15] My life has changed.

Dan McCoy

[1:35:17] You hadn't even slept with your husband, you know.

[1:35:19] I hadn't slept with anybody.

[1:35:21] Before the.

[1:35:21] Oh, wow.

Hallie Haglund

[1:35:22] But then I saw a movie with sex on this podcast, and I was like, what's that like?

[1:35:28] You're like, I'll try anything once.

[1:35:30] And that's when I got pregnant.

[1:35:32] That one time.

Stuart Wellington

[1:35:34] Elliot didn't have children at the start of this podcast.

[1:35:37] How has the podcast informed your parenting?

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:40] Well, I think hanging out with you guys regularly has really changed.

[1:35:45] It really prepared me for having two young sons who I just have to like keep an eye on.

[1:35:49] We're older.

Dan McCoy

[1:35:50] We're both older than you, but.

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:52] Yeah, but I mean, when it comes to certain types of emotional things, I don't know.

[1:35:56] But the.

[1:35:58] It's weird for me to think back, especially like our lives have changed in many ways since

[1:36:03] the since we started doing this together.

[1:36:05] And that like, we're just at like super different places.

[1:36:08] And it's nice that this has provided such a such a core for us to keep our lives revolving

[1:36:14] around all those years.

Dan McCoy

[1:36:15] Yeah.

[1:36:16] I started this podcast because I was a struggling wannabe comedy person.

[1:36:21] And now I've grown fat and complacent.

Stuart Wellington

[1:36:26] Not yet.

[1:36:26] Now that you've made it.

[1:36:28] You're like.

[1:36:29] Who cares?

[1:36:30] Yeah.

[1:36:31] Throw it all in the garbage.

[1:36:31] Let's go.

[1:36:32] Throw it all away by doing a terrible 300th episode.

[1:36:35] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:36:36] Well, I know that doing this has been a very meaningful thing to me.

[1:36:40] And it's always hugely rewarding when people are like, oh, I love your podcast.

[1:36:43] And I'm like, you listen to that.

[1:36:45] And I'm like, oh, we've been doing this for so long.

[1:36:48] And I guess that's why I guess we got to drop that big bombshell that this is the last

[1:36:51] episode.

[1:36:52] No, shut up.

Dan McCoy

[1:36:52] It's the last episode, Dan.

[1:36:54] You're going to really like there are people out there whose hearts just plummeted.

Stuart Wellington

[1:36:58] What am I going to do with my Sundays now?

[1:37:02] Relax and enjoy them, I suppose.

Elliott Kalan

[1:37:04] Well, there is part of me that's like, oh, someday when we're not doing this anymore,

[1:37:07] I don't want to.

[1:37:08] I'm not hoping it happens soon.

[1:37:09] But then I'll be able to like just watch whatever movie I want.

[1:37:12] And I won't have to be like, oh, yeah, well, I do want to watch this screener of Booksmart.

[1:37:16] But I got to watch The Wicker Man, so guys, how long do you think we're going to do it

[1:37:22] for?

[1:37:22] Should we just set an end date now or what?

Stuart Wellington

[1:37:24] Let's not do this.

[1:37:25] I do like the idea that you want to watch a screener of Booksmart when I know you always

[1:37:30] watch the Flav House movies while like on an iPad while you're doing the dishes.

Dan McCoy

[1:37:35] Yeah, I don't think it actually interferes with your schedule all that much to watch those

[1:37:39] movies.

Elliott Kalan

[1:37:39] No, but the dishwashing time is when I get to watch movies.

[1:37:42] Okay.

[1:37:43] So like I do put it like I could be like, okay, so I wouldn't be watching that screener

[1:37:46] or Booksmart, but I could be watching something on like the Turner Classic Movies app, you

Stuart Wellington

[1:37:50] know.

[1:37:50] Is that why when you guys have dinner, you're like everything gets a fucking ramekin?

[1:37:54] Like you're putting everything in little dishes?

[1:37:56] Like you're even putting ketchup in a little ramekin and shit?

Elliott Kalan

[1:38:00] Yes.

[1:38:01] There is part of me that when the sink is filling up with dishes, I'm like more movie time.

[1:38:05] Like, okay, that's fine.

Dan McCoy

[1:38:06] Ever since I started really concentrating on mise en place, I've been watching a lot more

[1:38:12] movies.

Elliott Kalan

[1:38:13] Danielle's like, I don't think we need a different fork for each course.

[1:38:16] I'm like, no, no, no.

[1:38:17] It's the proper way to do it.

[1:38:19] Yep.

Stuart Wellington

[1:38:19] Maison plus, so he can think about mise en somme.

[1:38:23] Oh, nice.

Elliott Kalan

[1:38:24] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:38:26] There are nights when Danielle's like, I'll do the dishes for you.

[1:38:29] And I'm like, no, no, no.

[1:38:30] It's fine.

[1:38:30] And I'm like slapping plates out of her hands.

[1:38:32] Like, I'll take care of that.

[1:38:34] But yeah, no, guys, look, I know we talked about doing some big, crazy things for this

[1:38:40] 300th episode.

[1:38:41] And then we were like, you know what?

[1:38:42] That's a lot of work.

[1:38:43] Let's keep it in the family.

[1:38:47] But I think, you know, I enjoy doing this with you guys all the time.

[1:38:50] And I hope we get to do it for many more, many more years to come.

[1:38:52] And I know we can, because it's not like anyone can tell us we don't do this anymore.

Dan McCoy

[1:38:58] I feel like the next-

[1:38:58] Don Lithgow isn't coming in being like, no podcasting in this town.

Stuart Wellington

[1:39:03] I feel like the next time we have Hallie on, I think you should just get to pick the movie.

[1:39:08] Yeah, Hallie.

[1:39:08] I don't know why we keep making you watch these dog shit movies.

Hallie Haglund

[1:39:11] Yeah.

[1:39:12] I'd love that.

Elliott Kalan

[1:39:15] Hallie, what movie would you have us watch?

Hallie Haglund

[1:39:17] I don't know.

[1:39:18] Don't put me on the spot here.

Stuart Wellington

[1:39:20] I mean, maybe City of Angels.

[1:39:22] You've already mentioned that.

Hallie Haglund

[1:39:23] Oh, yeah.

[1:39:23] That's a good movie.

[1:39:26] Too good.

[1:39:26] Too beautiful for this world.

Stuart Wellington

[1:39:31] Yeah, yeah.

[1:39:32] We would pull up the Skype channel with Elliot, and his eyeballs had been ripped out, because

[1:39:36] he had seen something too beautiful, and he didn't want to gaze upon anything else.

Elliott Kalan

[1:39:40] Yep, yep.

[1:39:40] Event Horizon again.

[1:39:42] So, guys, you know who I want to thank for doing this?

[1:39:45] I want to thank Dan, you for coming up with this idea.

[1:39:47] Hallie, you for being a guest.

[1:39:48] Stuart, you for making this show possible and great.

[1:39:51] And for letting me be your host on it.

[1:39:53] And I want to thank the listeners for sticking with us all this time.

[1:39:56] How about that, huh?

[1:39:57] Mm-hmm.

[1:39:58] Sounds great.

[1:39:59] Because without them, we'd just be howling into the void.

[1:40:02] Which is what I assumed we were doing the first couple years.

Stuart Wellington

[1:40:05] Oh, we probably were.

[1:40:06] I assumed Dan was just, like, keeping them in his vault.

[1:40:09] Like, Prince was keeping all his videos in a vault.

Dan McCoy

[1:40:12] Yeah, and my urine bottles.

[1:40:15] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:40:16] So, you're like, I'll soak the podcast in this urine to preserve it.

[1:40:21] And it's like, that's not really how files work, Dan.

[1:40:23] No.

[1:40:24] But that's, I do remember, Dan, at the time you were like, I'm going to keep them in my

[1:40:27] vault.

[1:40:27] And then I'll release them every 10 years.

[1:40:29] So, a new generation of flop listeners will have them.

[1:40:31] And I'm like, but you haven't released them yet the first time.

[1:40:33] There's no demand for it.

[1:40:34] And he was like, it works for Disney.

[1:40:36] It works for me.

[1:40:37] And then you introduced Dan Plus, which was your streaming channel.

[1:40:40] Uh-huh.

[1:40:40] Right?

[1:40:41] With the Dandelorian.

[1:40:42] That was the show you made by the guy who loves Dandelions.

[1:40:43] Dan in real life.

Dan McCoy

[1:40:45] It was the only movie that you could see on that.

Stuart Wellington

[1:40:47] Some kind of a pancake-based movie.

[1:40:49] Mm-hmm.

[1:40:50] Now, I just realized, when we first started doing the show, could you imagine, like, the

[1:40:56] fact that you have now written for Mystery Science Theater 3000 is crazy.

[1:41:02] Yeah.

[1:41:02] It's a crazy thing.

Elliott Kalan

[1:41:03] It really makes this show obsolete, because I achieved my other bad movie dream.

[1:41:08] But, yeah, if you do, if you put out into the universe the things that you want to do, often

[1:41:14] the universe will be like, all right, I'll allow it this time.

[1:41:18] You know, it'll be a nice judge, as opposed to the hanging judge that the universe often

[1:41:21] is.

Dan McCoy

[1:41:21] Do you think the show helped you get that gig?

[1:41:24] Do you think it was an eight?

Elliott Kalan

[1:41:24] Yeah, I think so.

[1:41:25] I think it helped.

[1:41:28] I think having been the head writer of The Daily Show probably helped quite a bit, too.

[1:41:31] Yeah, I don't think that's a major thing.

[1:41:34] Honk, shoo.

[1:41:35] Just give me a little.

[1:41:37] But the first time I met Joel, we met up, and he goes, is that, are you Elliot Kalin from

[1:41:42] The Flophouse?

[1:41:43] And so, like, he had done his research on me.

[1:41:45] I think it helped that I was like, I mean, he heard of The Flophouse, I'm sure, because

[1:41:50] I wrote to him, and then he looked me up.

[1:41:52] But I think it helped to establish my bad movie, Bona Fides, my B-M-B-F-es.

[1:41:58] So I think, yeah, I think it did help.

Dan McCoy

[1:42:02] Well, guys, that was a nice little.

Elliott Kalan

[1:42:04] I mean, I'll say, I feel very lucky The Flophouse has opened a lot of doors for me, and someday

[1:42:09] they will for you, too, Dan.

Dan McCoy

[1:42:10] I've done things that I wouldn't be able to do otherwise.

[1:42:14] I mean, certainly, like, if anyone contacts me to do anything, it is rarely because I am

[1:42:19] a writer for a popular television program.

[1:42:23] It's because I am front and center on this dumb little show we do.

[1:42:27] So I appreciate it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:42:29] Yeah.

[1:42:29] I mean, it's certainly given me a little bit of, like, it's certainly helped me professionally.

[1:42:34] I mean, even though I don't work in the comedy field or anything, but the, you know, giving

[1:42:40] me the confidence to, like, open up a small business and giving me a place to meet with

[1:42:45] people who are listeners and all that stuff.

[1:42:48] I don't know.

[1:42:49] Like, when we first started doing this show, I was working for a company, and there was a

[1:42:54] point early on where I got laid off, and it was kind of soul-crushing.

[1:42:58] And, yeah, it's nice that I'm not laid off anymore, and now I work for myself.

Elliott Kalan

[1:43:05] Yeah.

[1:43:06] You'd have to fire yourself at this point, right?

[1:43:08] But I know what I've done.

[1:43:13] Okay, guys.

[1:43:14] So, yeah, that was nice, guys.

[1:43:15] Thanks for indulging us, listeners, with talking about ourselves.

[1:43:19] And Hallie also for sitting through it.

Hallie Haglund

[1:43:20] Thanks for including me in this very special episode, guys.

[1:43:23] I feel honored.

Stuart Wellington

[1:43:24] Yeah, and, you know, we should...

[1:43:26] I feel bad.

[1:43:26] I don't think there's anyone else we would want to have.

Elliott Kalan

[1:43:29] No, not at all.

[1:43:30] Not at all.

[1:43:30] And, Hallie, would you promise to come back for our 600th episode?

[1:43:33] Should we all be alive still by that point?

Hallie Haglund

[1:43:35] Oh, my God, yeah.

[1:43:36] Then my kid will be, like, old, and I won't have to breastfeed him anymore.

[1:43:40] Well, let's have...

Elliott Kalan

[1:43:41] Let's have...

[1:43:42] Well, you don't have to.

[1:43:44] You'll be one of those moms who's like, no, I just want to keep that connection.

[1:43:48] So I'm breastfeeding him even though he's 13 years old.

Hallie Haglund

[1:43:50] But his immune system.

[1:43:52] Come here.

Dan McCoy

[1:43:53] Let's have her back before that.

[1:43:55] I feel bad.

[1:43:56] I did hold off for a while because I'm like, oh, Hallie's executive producing this show.

[1:44:01] And then she was pregnant.

[1:44:02] She doesn't have time for our stupidity.

[1:44:04] But now, hopefully, she has a little more time for our stupidity.

Stuart Wellington

[1:44:07] I feel like this is the second time one of our friends, you're like, I don't know if they're going to have time to be on a podcast.

[1:44:11] They just had a kid and I'm like, I'm pretty sure when you have a kid, you're like, can I have two hours away for a second?

Hallie Haglund

[1:44:17] Yeah, it's like, can I have an excuse to leave my house, please?

[1:44:21] It's true.

Dan McCoy

[1:44:22] Well, we should say all our usual jazz.

[1:44:25] Thanks for...

Elliott Kalan

[1:44:26] Ba-da-ba-ba-ba-bee-ba-bee-squeeze-quowl.

[1:44:28] Ba-da-da-da-da-da.

[1:44:29] You shouldn't have said jazz, Dan.

[1:44:31] Ba-da-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-bowl, ba-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

Stuart Wellington

[1:44:35] Now that Elliot moved out to L.A., he understands jazz.

[1:44:38] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:44:40] Look, that's what happened.

[1:44:41] You saw the movie.

[1:44:42] If you move out to L.A., you just get jazz.

[1:44:44] White guys get jazz.

[1:44:45] And you play piano in a restaurant.

Hallie Haglund

[1:44:46] Elliot invented jazz when he moved out there.

Dan McCoy

[1:44:51] Thank you to Maximum Fun, our network.

[1:44:54] Go over to MaximumFun.org just to listen to a bunch of other great shows.

[1:44:58] Thank you to the donors who help keep us going through Maximum Fun.

[1:45:03] Without your support, as much as we love the show, we probably couldn't do it.

[1:45:07] I mean, I don't know about...

[1:45:08] We could do it, but we probably would not be able to make the time in our busy lives if we weren't getting paid.

[1:45:14] And please tweet about us.

[1:45:16] Social media of your choice about us.

[1:45:19] Leave us a review on iTunes.

[1:45:20] A good review.

Stuart Wellington

[1:45:21] Yeah, be gentle on this one, guys.

Dan McCoy

[1:45:25] And I think that's about it.

[1:45:27] Unless anyone has anything to say.

[1:45:30] Hallie, you got anything to plug?

Hallie Haglund

[1:45:34] No.

[1:45:34] Motherhood?

[1:45:36] No.

Dan McCoy

[1:45:38] She refuses.

[1:45:43] Well, if that's the case, thanks for listening to us for lo these many years.

[1:45:48] For the Flophouse, I've been Dan McCoy.

[1:45:51] I've been Stuart Wellington.

[1:45:53] I'm Elliot Kalin.

[1:45:55] And I'm Hallie Haglund.

[1:45:56] See you next time

[1:45:58] Bye

[1:45:59] Dan at this point you know that our relationship

Elliott Kalan

[1:46:13] Is strictly business

[1:46:14] It used to be strictly ballroom

Stuart Wellington

[1:46:16] And then Dan broke his ankle

Dan McCoy

[1:46:18] Dan he tore his ACL

[1:46:20] And he couldn't dance the way he used to

[1:46:22] Dance like an angel I used to

S7

[1:46:24] I loved that movie

[1:46:26] Maximumfun.org

Dan McCoy

[1:46:29] Comedy and culture

[1:46:31] Artist owned

[1:46:32] Audience supported

Ep. #300 - The Wicker Man

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