Ep.#457 – Red One, with Linda Holmes

Stuart Wellington

[0:00] On this episode, we discuss Red One.

[0:03] The movie where we learn how Bruce Willis, Helen Mirren, John Malkovich, and other old stars got into this mess or whatever, right?

[0:13] Right.

[0:30] Hey, everyone, and welcome to the Flophouse.

Dan McCoy

[0:39] I'm Dan McCoy.

[0:41] I'm Stuart Wellington.

[0:42] And surprise, surprise, who's here?

Linda Holmes

[0:44] Elliot Kalin.

Dan McCoy

[0:45] Oh, wow.

[0:46] Hey, Elliot.

[0:47] You look different.

Linda Holmes

[0:48] Yeah, I'm feeling good.

[0:50] I'm feeling good.

Dan McCoy

[0:52] Elliot, you know, I don't know.

[0:54] He's got some nonsense, some bullshit going on.

Stuart Wellington

[0:58] And by that, it means a busy, you know, like a busy social life.

[1:03] He's just goofing around on a beach somewhere.

Dan McCoy

[1:05] He's on a beach having a banana daiquiri.

[1:08] No, we've got Linda Holmes back, of course.

[1:10] Of course we do.

[1:11] Who better?

Linda Holmes

[1:12] I'm so delighted to be here on my dog's favorite podcast.

Dan McCoy

[1:16] Now, I'm glad that you brought this up.

Stuart Wellington

[1:18] Your dog's dog's favorite podcast.

Dan McCoy

[1:20] That's right.

[1:21] There was this, you put an Instagram story up about this, actually, about how you, the dog had gotten used to hearing the podcast.

[1:31] Yes.

[1:31] In bed.

[1:32] And so.

[1:33] Yes.

[1:33] Now, if the dog gets lonely, if you're not ready to go to bed at the same time as the dog.

[1:38] It's true.

[1:39] That we are there to.

Linda Holmes

[1:40] I have a tendency to use the back catalog of some of my favorite podcasts as my kind of like soothing audio, you know?

[1:49] I've done this with like various shows, but I do it a lot with this show.

[1:52] So the dog's very used to it.

[1:53] This is calming downtime.

[1:55] And so if he, you know, if he's in the, if he's upstairs and he's kind of, you know, grumpy and whining at me, I just pick up my phone and I play a little episode on the Sonos speaker up in the bedroom for him.

[2:06] And he settles down right away.

[2:08] It's just, it just brings him a sense of calm.

Stuart Wellington

[2:10] Isn't it wonderful?

[2:10] The funny thing is, that's, that's also how I calm Dan down.

[2:13] I put him in on the couch.

[2:15] I fire up an episode of his favorite podcast, Talk Tua.

[2:18] And it just puts him right to sleep.

Dan McCoy

[2:23] Now what's, should we sing the dog a lullaby or something?

[2:26] I feel like we should do some sort of targeted.

Linda Holmes

[2:29] No, it's just what it is.

[2:30] It's just perfectly what it is.

Stuart Wellington

[2:32] Yeah, I feel like with Elliot not here, all of a sudden we're a singing podcast.

Linda Holmes

[2:38] He just, he just wants, he just wants it exactly as it is.

Stuart Wellington

[2:41] Okay.

[2:42] Well, that's good.

[2:43] Uh-huh.

[2:44] You can't change things, Dan.

[2:45] Friend to the animals.

[2:45] Don't try to exert control.

Linda Holmes

[2:47] But I am, I am here with my, I am no Elliot Kalen, but I am here with my, my willing heart.

[2:53] Mm-hmm.

[2:54] In my list of famous people I have seen on Broadway.

Dan McCoy

[2:57] Oh, great.

[2:57] That's great.

[2:58] Excellent.

[2:59] Well, so we're going to talk about Red One today.

[3:02] And part of the reason we were going to do it now was for it to be Christmas in July.

[3:08] And it was only as I was sitting down to watch that I realized that because of the schedule, this of course will come out at the beginning of August.

[3:14] So that reason has, has gone away.

[3:18] But the, the reason still exists that we promised that we would have Linda Beck to defend this, I assume her favorite movie.

Stuart Wellington

[3:28] That's what we do.

[3:29] That's what this show is all about is bringing guests on to defend a movie they like.

Linda Holmes

[3:34] I, I, when I was on here talking, I think when I was talking about Trap with you guys, right?

[3:38] Yeah.

[3:38] The Josh Hartnett classic Trap.

Stuart Wellington

[3:41] Um, I mentioned.

[3:42] I think we all liked it.

[3:44] Yeah.

[3:44] Right?

[3:45] Yeah.

[3:45] I mean, I think Linda liked it least.

[3:48] Yeah.

[3:48] I liked it least.

Linda Holmes

[3:49] And I still think he's very good in it.

[3:51] I still think he's.

[3:52] And by the way, if you have not seen him in Fight or Flight, it is a killer.

[3:56] You must see it.

[3:57] It's like.

[3:58] Does he get trapped on a plane?

[4:00] Uh, yes.

[4:01] Awesome.

[4:01] Perfect.

[4:01] And it is essentially Josh Hartnett fighting assassins for like an hour and a half.

[4:06] And it is, I would say, 49% John Wick and 51% Sharknado.

[4:12] Plus or minus 2%, right?

Stuart Wellington

[4:14] And he's got like, he's got like bleach blonde dye job, right?

[4:17] Yeah.

[4:17] Perfect.

Linda Holmes

[4:18] Yeah.

[4:18] And at one point he's like, he's like high on toad venom.

[4:21] There's like, it's a, it is a wackadoodle movie.

[4:24] And I absolutely loved it.

Stuart Wellington

[4:25] Closing in on like crank territory right there.

Linda Holmes

[4:28] Yeah.

[4:28] And it's incredibly bloody.

[4:30] I, I enjoyed it very, very greatly.

[4:32] But anyway, when I was here talking about Trap, I mentioned that I had seen Red One and

[4:37] I had enjoyed it in 4DX.

[4:39] Wow.

[4:40] Thrown around like a sack of potatoes.

[4:43] Or presents.

[4:44] Or presents.

[4:46] Exactly.

[4:47] And so I find myself back here having watched it again to see whether I still like it.

Stuart Wellington

[4:52] Without the, without the additional D.

Linda Holmes

[4:56] Yes.

[4:56] Without the additional D and also without the timing of the fact that the first time I saw

[5:01] this movie, it was a week after the election.

[5:04] Okay.

[5:05] In November of 2024.

[5:07] Uh-huh.

[5:07] So it was like the end of a long season.

[5:09] And, you know, I work in a newsroom.

[5:11] And so, you know, just like a heavy time for people.

[5:14] You know?

[5:14] Yeah.

[5:14] I was probably going into it hoping that it would be like a good time.

[5:18] So I was curious when I got into it this time whether I would still like it without the

[5:24] pressure of, you know, wanting desperately to have a good time.

Stuart Wellington

[5:28] Yeah.

[5:28] I mean, the world's gotten so much better since then, right?

Linda Holmes

[5:31] Yeah.

[5:31] Since everything is cool now.

[5:32] Just everything.

Dan McCoy

[5:33] Yeah.

[5:33] I had imagined you were going to say like, oh, you know, like, again, of course, the

[5:36] first time I saw it was a time that there was a gas leak in my home.

Linda Holmes

[5:40] I was high on toad venom.

[5:43] I wouldn't, no, I went out to an actual movie theater.

[5:47] I got air blown in my face.

[5:49] It was, it was.

Stuart Wellington

[5:51] Does that interrupt the ability to snack in the movie?

[5:55] No.

[5:56] I've never done 4DX.

Dan McCoy

[5:57] I was like, I went to see Twisters in 4DX, which, you know, like left 4DX and then came

[6:04] back to it because it was like everyone wanted to see it that way.

[6:08] I heard it was great in 4DX.

[6:10] I mean, we had a lot of fun other than like it was one of the wildest screenings in terms

[6:16] of like weird shit going on around us that distracted us for the first half of the movie.

[6:20] Got it.

[6:20] But once those people were thrown out, it was fine.

[6:23] But I can tell you that Audrey, for some reason, decided that this was the time to get nachos.

[6:28] Yes.

[6:28] And if you're getting thrown around.

Linda Holmes

[6:31] It really, like people think it's just going to be like a vibrating chair, like a massage

[6:36] chair or something.

[6:37] No, this thing throws you around and it is serious.

[6:42] Fortunately, at the beginning of that screening, I did find the button on the arm of the chair

[6:46] that said water so that I could turn it off.

[6:50] Because, listen, I'm a good sport.

[6:52] I'm a game girl.

[6:53] I don't want dirty movie theater water sprayed in my face.

[6:59] That's not, that's over the line.

[7:01] That's over the line.

[7:02] So I just got the, you know, the chair throwing me around and the breeze blowing in my face.

[7:08] There were some snow splosions that happened.

[7:13] And there are these things that like poke you in the back.

[7:16] Not entirely pleasant.

[7:17] But yeah.

[7:18] So that was my first experience of Red One.

[7:20] Now I got to enjoy it at home.

[7:23] The way, believe it or not, I think it was originally intended to be seen.

[7:27] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[7:27] This was supposed to first be just an Amazon release.

[7:32] And then I read on the Wikipedia page that The Rock saw Oppenheimer and said,

[7:39] Red One in IMAX would be a game changer.

[7:43] Yeah.

[7:43] That was his quote.

[7:44] It would be a game changer.

[7:45] That's what I heard.

[7:46] Man, he's right.

[7:48] Well, no.

[7:50] Red One in theaters was a bomb.

[7:53] It was, however, a huge, you know, hugely viewed on Amazon Prime.

[7:58] I don't quite understand, though, still the economics of that idea.

[8:02] Because it's like, at this point, people have these services or they don't have these services

[8:06] to do like a huge movie as like a loss leader to get people in the door.

[8:11] I don't know who's subscribing to be like, I got to see that Red One.

Stuart Wellington

[8:15] I mean, the only time we've subscribed for something is when Poker Face came out on Peacock.

[8:22] And we subscribed to Peacock for that.

[8:24] That's good.

[8:25] And still to this day, maintain that subscription.

[8:28] That's worthwhile.

Dan McCoy

[8:29] It's not a bad service.

[8:30] People make fun of that one for some reason, but I feel like it's got...

[8:33] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[8:33] I mean, the UI on all of them is terrible.

[8:37] Yes.

[8:37] Sure.

[8:37] So it's hard to complain as one being worse than the others.

[8:41] Yeah.

[8:42] That one has the traitors too, right?

[8:45] Traitors is great.

[8:45] Sure watches the fuck out of the traitors.

[8:47] Although I feel like traitors US is, despite outside of Alan Cumming and his little outfits,

[8:53] and attitude.

[8:55] He's got a lot of attitude.

[8:56] He does.

[8:56] Outside of that, I feel like it's not as good as the other ones.

[8:59] Like UK traitors is awesome.

Linda Holmes

[9:01] I would agree with that.

[9:02] Australian traitors is awesome.

[9:04] I think on the whole, the fact that the US traitors is much more interested in celebrities and famoses.

[9:11] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[9:12] Well, specifically like people who...

Linda Holmes

[9:14] Specifically reality show people.

[9:15] Yes.

[9:15] I think hurts it.

[9:17] But yeah, I mean, listen, Alan Cumming and his little outfits is a lot.

Stuart Wellington

[9:20] Yes.

[9:21] It takes you quite a ways.

[9:23] It gets me through the door at least.

Linda Holmes

[9:24] It gets you quite a ways.

[9:25] Especially after they added his dog.

[9:26] I mean, come on, man.

[9:27] Mm-hmm.

[9:27] But I will say, as what I promise will be my last piece of windup, I do have a long history

[9:33] of being a liker of made-for-streaming action block bumpers.

[9:39] They're not like blockbusters, but they're like maybe they'll bump your block a little bit.

[9:43] Like they're not...

[9:44] Like I was the person who liked...

[9:46] I liked Red Notice more than most people.

[9:48] I liked The Gray Man more than most people.

[9:51] I liked the Kevin Hart heist movie, Lift, which was on Netflix, which I think no one saw.

Stuart Wellington

[9:58] You haven't even said like Carry On or something.

[10:01] Something that was genuinely liked.

[10:03] Carry On was good.

Linda Holmes

[10:04] People genuinely liked that.

[10:05] And I liked that.

[10:06] G20 with Viola Davis as the president.

[10:08] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[10:09] She was on Prime.

[10:09] I like that too.

Stuart Wellington

[10:10] I mean, the thing is, is I would vote twice just for those shoulders alone.

[10:15] I mean, she is yoked.

[10:16] Absolutely.

Linda Holmes

[10:17] So I am sort of like, I have a history for whatever reason of being kind of in the bag

[10:22] for these cheap, disposable action movies.

[10:26] I don't know why.

[10:27] So this is all the history that I bring to Red One.

Dan McCoy

[10:30] Okay.

[10:31] Well, let's dig into Red One.

[10:34] I'm going to be...

[10:35] But now the gloves are coming off.

[10:36] I'm going to be driving this.

[10:38] Good luck.

[10:39] Apologies if I ever get too detailed.

[10:42] You guys can...

[10:43] Without Elliot here, though, I feel like...

[10:44] Already it was pretty detailed.

Stuart Wellington

[10:45] I'll do my best to interrupt constantly.

[10:47] Okay.

Dan McCoy

[10:48] So at the beginning, we get a little preface where the kid version, who will be Chris Evans'

[10:53] character, takes a key from his relatives, steals it.

[10:55] They look exactly alike to you.

[10:57] Well, I kind of liked that they didn't try and find a kid that looked exactly alike.

Stuart Wellington

[11:02] I wish they had stuck Chris Evans' head on a little kid's body.

[11:06] He could do it.

[11:07] He's got the range.

[11:08] He does have the range.

[11:09] Yeah, it's true.

[11:10] What they should do is do an opposite materialist and make him six inches shorter.

[11:15] Do they make him taller in materialist?

[11:18] Not him.

Dan McCoy

[11:19] Oh, who?

[11:20] Pedro?

[11:21] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[11:22] You haven't watched materialist yet?

Dan McCoy

[11:24] You know, I was all...

[11:25] Don't want to be in the conversation.

[11:26] I was all in for it.

[11:29] Like, you know, I liked Past Lives not as much as you, but I liked it and I like all those

[11:34] people.

[11:35] And then there was like such sort of mixed word on it and there were other things.

[11:39] I just never got around.

[11:41] Okay.

[11:42] Interesting.

[11:43] Interesting.

[11:43] It's only okay.

Stuart Wellington

[11:45] It's only okay.

[11:46] But it's got, you know, I can't miss a DJ theater movie, you know?

[11:50] That's what you call her.

[11:51] My favorite crazy person.

Dan McCoy

[11:55] Did we see Matt and Webb together, Stuart?

Stuart Wellington

[11:57] Or was it...

[11:58] Nope.

[11:59] Anyway.

[11:59] I watched it by myself and a guy was like, one for Matt and Webb?

[12:04] Yep.

Dan McCoy

[12:06] So, okay.

[12:07] Young kid, Chris Evans, steals a key from relative to show his cousins that Santa doesn't exist.

[12:14] There's a cache of presents upstairs and we get a too short cameo from Mark Evan Jackson

[12:20] as his uncle who insists that Santa is real.

[12:24] So, this does bypass my problem with a lot of like Santa is real movies where the adults

[12:31] don't, like the adults don't think Santa is real.

[12:34] And then I'm like, well, where did all those presents come from?

[12:38] But anyway, we flash forward 30 years.

Stuart Wellington

[12:41] So, what maintains the economy if Santa's real?

Dan McCoy

[12:47] Who's buying all the stuff?

[12:48] Well, you still buy presents for non-Santa presents.

[12:52] Like you got a...

[12:53] There's the ones from your parents.

[12:54] I don't.

[12:55] The ones from Santa.

[12:56] I just wait for Santa.

Linda Holmes

[12:57] I think Santa would have to have like a sideline in crime to obtain the funds to run all

[13:04] this stuff.

Stuart Wellington

[13:05] Well, yeah.

[13:06] And that's the kind of in the weeds that this movie gets regarding the science and reality

[13:12] of the Santa situation.

[13:13] But go on.

Dan McCoy

[13:15] We go forward 30 years.

[13:16] Adult Chris Evans, a.k.a.

[13:18] Jack O'Malley, a.k.a.

[13:20] The Wolf, is some kind of tracker, super hacker.

[13:24] He's MacGyvering a distraction.

Stuart Wellington

[13:26] I'm like a bad guy.

[13:28] He's like a bad guy.

Dan McCoy

[13:29] Yeah, he's a bad guy.

[13:30] But like for someone who apparently is like a criminal who does work for all these like

[13:34] mercenaries all over the world.

[13:36] Like he's more of like a, you know, he's a comedy bad guy.

[13:40] He's got a.

[13:40] He steals candy from a baby.

[13:42] Literally.

[13:42] Yeah, he's got a big city New York accent of some kind.

[13:48] Yes.

[13:48] That he's put on.

[13:49] East coast.

[13:50] Anyway, he's MacGyvering his way into a security center to implant a USB for some reason as

[13:58] a job to pay off gambling debts.

[14:00] As you say, he steals some candy from a baby.

[14:03] And then we get the title drop.

[14:04] Red one.

[14:06] So.

[14:07] That's when we stand up and cheer, right?

[14:09] Yeah.

[14:10] Immediately.

[14:11] It's like the flashes enter the speed force.

[14:13] And we get to see the titular red one immediately.

[14:17] He's J.K.

[14:18] Simmons.

[14:19] He's a.

[14:20] He's the real Santa.

[14:22] He's a jacked Santa.

[14:23] Yeah.

[14:24] How do you feel about that?

Linda Holmes

[14:25] I have to say, like, if if they're going to use a thing we know about J.K.

[14:30] Simmons as a quality of Santa Claus, like they went with lifting.

[14:35] I would maybe have gone with singing the fugue for tin horns from Guys and Dolls.

[14:42] Like I might have incorporated that into Santa.

[14:45] But they go with the lifting.

[14:47] Now, one of my friends commented on this movie that it was like if Spike TV was trying to get

[14:53] in on the Hallmark movie thing.

[14:55] And I think part of that is like this jacked Santa thing.

[15:00] So, yeah, you see J.K.

[15:01] Simmons working out, which is the thing we all know, right?

[15:03] From like Instagram and.

Dan McCoy

[15:06] Well, I mean, it's hard to miss.

[15:09] I feel like because at this point.

[15:11] Yeah.

[15:12] He's he's made a point of it.

[15:13] I actually did not know until just like this month that he was a singer, that he'd been

[15:19] on Broadway.

[15:20] I saw one of those like YouTube.

[15:23] I'm talking about all my roles things.

[15:26] And he was talking about how like when he was looked at for whiplash, the director didn't

[15:32] know that he had a background in music.

[15:35] Oh, he's got a beautiful voice.

[15:38] Yeah.

[15:38] So that was exciting.

[15:39] I immediately sent Audrey videos of him singing.

Linda Holmes

[15:42] He was wonderful.

[15:43] He was in this like really, really successful revival of Guys and Dolls that Peter Gallagher

[15:49] was in and Nathan Lane was in.

[15:50] Oh, that one.

Stuart Wellington

[15:51] Yeah.

[15:52] The big one.

[15:52] I mean, I feel like was that a was that a bigger surprise than finding out that Mads

[15:57] Mickelson was a ballet dancer?

Dan McCoy

[16:02] Maybe.

[16:03] I mean, because like Simmons is known for like being like a gruff dude.

Stuart Wellington

[16:08] Did it give you the tummy butterflies?

[16:10] Where is?

[16:10] Finding out Mads Mickelson was a ballet dancer.

[16:12] No, not the same.

Dan McCoy

[16:13] Not the same.

[16:14] I mean, he's got that grace.

[16:16] Anyway, so so he's he's he's posing as a mall Santa to get out amongst the kids here.

[16:22] What's up in the world?

[16:23] Some asshole influencer tries to cut the line and we meet the rock who's his security,

[16:30] Santa's security with a totally normal name, Callum Drift.

Stuart Wellington

[16:33] Hell yeah.

[16:35] Oh, hell yeah.

[16:36] That's like, man, that's like a that's like a first draft D&D character name.

[16:43] We get a little.

[16:44] First Drift.

[16:45] My mistake.

[16:45] Sorry.

[16:46] Elliot's not here to call me on it.

Dan McCoy

[16:48] So he backs the influencer off after, you know, his shift as mall Santa.

[16:54] We get a little talk back and forth.

[16:56] We learned that the rock is losing his Christmas spirit and wants to quit.

[17:01] Retire in it.

[17:02] Yeah.

[17:03] Santa's motorcade goes to the airport.

Stuart Wellington

[17:05] Yeah.

[17:05] The whole thing is very like like action movie, like dealing with a VIP or a president.

[17:10] And like, they're like, the rock is like Santa's secret service, right?

[17:14] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[17:15] I know he's treated as a head of state.

[17:17] Santa is sort of.

[17:18] Yes.

Stuart Wellington

[17:19] Very much.

[17:19] And there's so many people involved in this fucking process.

[17:23] They like, when the, when they take off on their sleigh, there's like fighter jets following

[17:29] them.

[17:30] Like how, what's going on?

[17:32] How do they keep this secret?

Linda Holmes

[17:35] They're just really, they're just really good.

[17:38] Also.

Dan McCoy

[17:38] Okay.

[17:39] Yeah.

[17:39] I guess that must be it.

[17:40] At this point, why do they keep this secret?

[17:43] Like, why do they let it be thought by, you know, many apparently that Santa does not exist

[17:51] if he is in fact someone who exists and gives presence to everybody?

Stuart Wellington

[17:55] You would think a movie that spends so much time with the logistics of everything else would

[17:59] take a second to think about that part.

[18:01] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[18:02] Anyway, well, so as he takes off, just because it'll become important at the end, Santa says

[18:08] Cavallame, his magic version of mush to his flying reindeer.

[18:13] Is this, is this in canon, guys?

[18:15] Is this, is this a thing?

[18:16] I did not look up Cavallame.

[18:17] Not that I, I don't know.

Stuart Wellington

[18:18] I don't know that.

Dan McCoy

[18:20] I looked up some other stuff that we'll get into later, but not, not that word.

Stuart Wellington

[18:26] Yeah.

[18:26] You looked up Bonnie Hunt feet.

Linda Holmes

[18:30] I would add, by the way, the reindeer are also quite jacked.

[18:34] The reindeer are also just-

Stuart Wellington

[18:36] They have been drinking a lot of Mountain Dew or what's the new one?

[18:40] What's the one that-

[18:41] Code Red?

[18:42] No.

[18:42] That's not new, I guess.

[18:43] No, I'm like, what's the, like, is it Surge?

[18:46] Not Surge, but what's the one that like, that some like influencers are hawking?

[18:51] I don't know.

[18:52] Oh man, I don't know.

[18:53] Crunch.

Linda Holmes

[18:53] I don't know that much about influencers and soda pop, buddy.

Stuart Wellington

[18:57] I have a friend with like a son who spends all his time on YouTube.

[19:01] Got it.

[19:01] And so he's very into YouTube-based food and drink.

Dan McCoy

[19:04] All I know about influencers and liquids is that they use expensive bottled water to do everything.

[19:11] Yes, right.

[19:13] So Chris Evidence-

[19:14] Chris Evidence.

Linda Holmes

[19:19] Now that is a thing that's going to stay with me that I'm going to work on.

Dan McCoy

[19:23] Chris, sometimes I think I have some sort of aphasia and I get worried.

[19:28] Elliot and I text about it all the time.

[19:30] Really?

[19:31] No.

[19:31] Chris Evidence sends some coordinates to someone mysterious.

[19:38] And Santa arrives at the North Pole, which is, of course, a bunch of CGI mush.

[19:44] Just gray CGI nonsense.

[19:46] It's like winter Dubai, right?

[19:48] Yeah.

[19:49] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[19:49] Basically.

Dan McCoy

[19:51] Yeah.

[19:52] Creatures are getting ready for Christmas.

[19:53] We get Mrs. Claus, the aforementioned Bonnie Hunt, another person who's not in the movie long enough.

[19:59] Yeah.

[20:01] And so The Rock, we get follow-up on him wanting to quit.

[20:05] He hands in his resignation letter and he and Santa have a heart-to-heart during weightlifting.

Stuart Wellington

[20:12] Yeah.

[20:12] And I'm like, wow, that's a serious overhead press he's doing there.

[20:17] I'm like, oh, he's going to squat three plates.

[20:19] That's pretty good.

[20:19] That's like the max I've ever done.

[20:21] And then he just starts overhead pressing it.

[20:23] I'm like, there's no way.

[20:24] He's got to be magic.

[20:26] Yeah.

[20:26] But then later on, they make a comment that it's okay that he eats cookies because he burns

[20:31] so many calories or something on Christmas Eve.

[20:34] Yeah.

[20:34] And I'm like, what the fuck, dude?

[20:35] He's magic.

[20:36] You don't need to talk about calories and shit.

[20:39] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[20:39] I guess this is like a reason to explain why he's, you know, a jack Santa rather than the

[20:44] traditional jolly round man that we all know.

[20:48] But I don't know.

[20:50] Give me a rounder one.

Stuart Wellington

[20:51] He can be jacked and round at the same time.

[20:53] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[20:55] So, yeah.

[20:57] Santa doesn't want the rock to go.

[20:59] They talk about it.

[21:00] But this is the first year that there are more people on the naughty list than the nice

[21:05] list.

[21:06] And Calum Drift is just fed up.

Stuart Wellington

[21:10] I find that very hard to believe.

[21:10] I don't believe that.

[21:11] Like, what about during slavery, dude?

[21:14] That's crazy.

Dan McCoy

[21:16] And Santa says that they can't change people.

[21:19] Just see who they really are and believe in them.

[21:21] Will this have some thematic significance later in the movie?

[21:25] Who knows?

Stuart Wellington

[21:26] Can't imagine.

[21:27] Probably not.

Dan McCoy

[21:28] Meanwhile, an armed mercenary team are approaching the North Pole like it's the beginning of Scrooge.

[21:34] And the rock notices that there's something wrong with some of the security lights.

[21:37] And they can't find Red One, aka Santa.

[21:41] He's been taken with Neria Liam Neeson in sight.

[21:45] Mm-hmm.

[21:45] Yeah.

[21:47] There's more sludgy CGI where there's a chase.

[21:49] He catches up to the sled, but Santa's not in it.

[21:53] Uh-oh.

Stuart Wellington

[21:54] Yeah.

[21:54] Charlene was asking.

[21:56] Charlene spent like 10 minutes asking me my thoughts on when there's sequences where the

[22:01] rock is like sliding down like slides and stuff.

[22:04] Yes.

[22:05] Like he's on a roller coaster track.

[22:07] They're like, she's like, so did they film him like pretending to be sliding down something?

[22:12] I'm like, I don't know.

[22:13] I think the rock is one of those performers that's really easy to animate because he doesn't

[22:16] have any hair or anything.

[22:17] So he's like a default guy, like default strength build basically.

Dan McCoy

[22:23] You told Charlene like, hold on, let me text Todd Vaziri.

[22:26] Todd.

[22:27] Yes.

[22:27] How they make rocks live.

Linda Holmes

[22:30] Well, the thing that I think is interesting about this that I was thinking about while I was

[22:34] watching this opening is like, I think all the effects like in that part where there,

[22:39] he's outside and he's sliding on these tracks and he's falling around, like all that stuff

[22:44] I think looks terrible.

[22:46] And yet I think some of the, not all, I think some of the like creature stuff is cool.

[22:52] Like I like the, I like the big security polar bear.

[22:55] I like that guy.

Dan McCoy

[22:57] Garcia.

Linda Holmes

[22:58] Garcia.

Dan McCoy

[22:59] And a lot of the non effects based parts of this movie look better than this type of movie

[23:04] usually do.

[23:05] Like Jake Kasdan's the director and he's a reliable, you know, journeyman director.

Stuart Wellington

[23:10] It's crazy because he doesn't have like a famous dad who's ever been or any famous relatives,

[23:14] right?

Linda Holmes

[23:15] Exactly.

[23:16] He got there, just got there the old fashioned way.

[23:18] But no, I think like parts of it look really, really cheap and terrible.

[23:22] And other parts of it, I was like, yeah, okay.

[23:24] Like the, you know, Garcia.

[23:26] And like I said, the reindeer, I think are like pretty cool.

[23:29] But then other parts of it is like sub sci-fi channel.

Stuart Wellington

[23:33] Well, I liked a lot of the monsters in Krampus's cavern of weirdos.

[23:39] Yeah.

[23:40] And I felt like a lot of those were masks unless the CGI is so good.

[23:43] And I'm getting so old that I can't tell the difference.

[23:46] No, it could be.

[23:47] It could be.

Dan McCoy

[23:47] And I wouldn't say it looked like great per se, but I found the killer snowman that come

[23:52] up later on pretty fun.

[23:53] Oh, yeah.

Linda Holmes

[23:54] Those guys are cool and kind of creepy.

Dan McCoy

[23:56] And they're all kind of hot frosties too.

[23:58] They are.

Linda Holmes

[23:59] They are hot frosties.

Dan McCoy

[24:00] They have well-defined butt cheeks.

[24:01] You see some glutes.

[24:02] Yeah.

[24:03] It's true.

[24:04] Okay.

[24:04] Well, Lucy Liu appears in the movie.

[24:07] Yay.

[24:07] And I'm glad to see her because I've been watching Elementary with Audrey.

Stuart Wellington

[24:12] Have I talked about how much I think Johnny Lee Miller's performance is inspired by Sam

[24:16] the Eagle from The Muppets?

[24:17] You have not.

[24:18] Please.

[24:19] Because he doesn't turn his neck at all when he acts.

[24:21] I love it.

Dan McCoy

[24:22] It's true.

[24:23] That's true.

[24:24] That's like his whole thing.

[24:25] I love it.

[24:27] Well, she appears on the screen in the North Pole Situation Room to yell at the Rock about

[24:33] Santa being kidnapped and to say that they picked up some kind of tracking device that pinged

[24:38] the North Pole that they've traced it to the wolf.

[24:41] So back to Chris Evans, who's down and out.

[24:44] He's being reamed over the phone by his kid's mom, Mary Elizabeth Ellis, the waitress from

[24:50] It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.

[24:52] He's a bad dad, hacker dad.

[24:55] We learned that, among other things, he needs to learn how to be a better father.

[25:01] That's going to be his arc.

[25:03] She wants him to pick up their son Dylan from school.

[25:06] He's in trouble for doing some shenanigans and sort of following his dad's footsteps.

[25:12] And they have a conversation in the car that sort of makes it clear that while Chris Evans

[25:18] isn't the greatest role model, they still have a pretty good relationship in that he's a

[25:23] teen boy who actually talks to his dad, wants to talk to his dad.

[25:28] And the kid mentions that there's this winter jazz band pageant thing that night playing off

[25:33] like it's dumb.

[25:34] But it's clear that he wants his dad to be there.

[25:37] Although he doesn't get the message.

[25:39] The wolf is not listening.

[25:41] No.

Stuart Wellington

[25:42] It's too early in the arc for listening.

Dan McCoy

[25:43] Yeah, yeah.

[25:44] Yeah.

[25:45] At his apartment, he's surprised by a bunch of law enforcement and gets to show off some

[25:50] of his Captain America moves.

[25:52] He almost gets away but is zapped by Lucy who does a terrible job of interrogating him in

[25:59] the next scene with a lot of vague questions or statements like, we know what you did and

[26:03] who hired you to find him.

[26:05] Yeah.

[26:06] Which for a man who does a lot of this work seems very nonspecific.

Stuart Wellington

[26:11] I do like that they zap him with these special guns that you have to like touch somebody with

[26:17] to knock him out and then they have to touch him with a different gun to wake him up.

Linda Holmes

[26:21] Yes.

[26:22] Yes.

[26:23] It's efficient.

[26:24] And I think the reason why she does the interrogation that way, the reason why it's written that

[26:29] way, is that what they're really going for in this interrogation is him gradually realizing

[26:33] what's going on.

[26:35] They're going for him gradually being like, what are you talking about?

[26:40] Who are you asking about?

[26:41] Because naturally, he's eventually going to figure out that they're talking about Santa

[26:44] Claus.

[26:45] Yeah.

[26:45] And so I think if she came in like to, if she came in being like, why did you help kidnap

[26:51] Santa Claus?

[26:52] You wouldn't have that slow, like him figuring out that that's what she's talking about, which

[26:57] is kind of where they're going, I think, with the interrogation.

[27:00] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[27:00] I think that's where they're going.

[27:01] I don't think it particularly works because we know this is a movie about Santa Claus getting

[27:05] kidnapped.

[27:06] Yeah.

Linda Holmes

[27:07] You know that, but he doesn't know that.

Stuart Wellington

[27:09] I understand, but I feel like spending time, wasting our time doing this cliche is less

[27:14] interesting.

Dan McCoy

[27:17] Well, I like the idea.

[27:19] I didn't realize that they had a different wake up gun.

[27:21] I like the idea.

[27:22] They're like, oh, sorry, I left the wake up gun back at the office.

[27:26] We just have the sleepy gun.

Stuart Wellington

[27:27] Yeah.

[27:27] And there's a lot of stuff where he's like mentioning things and they'll be like, oh,

[27:31] wow, is that the headless horseman?

[27:32] And they're like, yeah, he's real, ho-hum, boring.

[27:35] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[27:36] Yeah.

[27:36] Well, that happens at the bunker that's sort of the headquarters of M-O-R-A, MORA, the Mythological

[27:43] Oversight and Restoration Authority, where Lucy Liu is presumably the chief of that operation.

[27:50] He's the director.

[27:50] The director.

[27:53] And yeah.

[27:54] Evans, we skip over him being like, this is crazy by him seeing the headless horseman,

[27:59] which is pretty good proof right away that creatures and beasties exist.

[28:06] And he learns that he accidentally helped kidnap Santa.

[28:10] And the rock shows up.

[28:11] He introduces himself as the head of ELF, which is Enforcements, Logistics, and Fortification.

[28:20] ELF.

[28:21] Mm-hmm.

[28:21] I get it.

[28:23] I get it, guys.

[28:24] Electric Light Forkstruck.

Stuart Wellington

[28:28] Yeah.

[28:30] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[28:31] They play electric forks.

[28:33] Mm-hmm.

[28:35] So, we get some of the film's most cliched writing in this scene.

[28:40] Like, this is like, I'm going to spoil some of my reaction.

[28:44] Like, some of this movie worked for me, but the main problem is how many, like, cliches

[28:51] are piled on cliches in this movie, like, just on a screenplay level.

[28:54] And we get Evans being, saying the line, are you saying Santa Claus has been kidnapped?

[29:03] And also, he gets to say.

Stuart Wellington

[29:05] Slower for the trailer, please.

Dan McCoy

[29:07] Mm-hmm.

[29:07] They're talking about him, and he gets to say, I'm right here.

[29:12] Oh, yeah.

[29:13] That gag.

[29:13] I do hear that one.

[29:16] But, you know, he has no loyalties.

[29:18] He finds people, so Lucy Liu decides just to pay him to find the guy he helped lose.

[29:24] And we've got our mismatched buddy team for this action comedy.

[29:28] Woo-hoo!

[29:28] And then the rock.

[29:30] And I want to say, like, this movie could have been so much more insufferable if Chris

[29:37] Evans' character was Ryan Reynolds.

[29:39] Like, this feels like a Ryan Reynolds character.

[29:43] It does, doesn't it?

[29:44] And Evans does everything right that Reynolds would do wrong.

[29:50] Like, so much as this works.

Stuart Wellington

[29:51] Think about how bad the materialists would have been if it had been Ryan Reynolds.

[29:57] Oh, man.

[29:58] In a way, I kind of wish they did that swap so it would actually become, like, serious

[30:03] bad movie.

Linda Holmes

[30:03] Yeah.

[30:04] I mean, I think, like, when I watched Chris Evans, when I became a fan of Chris Evans in

[30:09] his time in the MCU, I was very, like, I am super into Chris Evans' handsome dork.

[30:18] Right?

[30:18] But it has turned out later that I am way more into Chris Evans' hot dirtbag.

[30:24] Like, that is even better to me.

[30:27] That's sort of what he's doing in Materialist.

[30:29] It's what he's doing in this.

[30:31] It's kind of what he's doing in Gray Man.

[30:32] Like, when he's a dirtbag, I'm very, very into it, as I am in this movie.

Dan McCoy

[30:38] Or, you know, an asshole.

[30:39] Like, that's a good gear for him.

[30:41] Like, Knives Out or Scott Pilgrim.

Stuart Wellington

[30:45] Or Gray Man again.

[30:46] Yeah.

Linda Holmes

[30:47] That too.

[30:48] Oh.

[30:49] Such a hot dirtbag.

Dan McCoy

[30:50] Mm-hmm.

[30:52] Well, of course, you know, a pro like the wolf has, actually does have some idea of where

[30:58] this, the money man who asked him to do this is.

[31:02] Mm-hmm.

[31:02] He put a tracker on something or other.

[31:04] So, they go, they need to go to Aruba.

[31:08] The Rock reveals that toy stores are transit stations for Elf.

[31:12] They can zap people all around the world.

[31:14] So, they go to Aruba and he has a...

Linda Holmes

[31:17] By the way, as you were saying, toy stores are transit stations.

[31:20] I'm literally, like, nodding along happily.

[31:22] Stuart is shaking his head.

[31:23] Mm-hmm.

[31:25] Like, no kidding.

[31:25] I hate it.

Stuart Wellington

[31:26] Yeah.

[31:27] They, like, walk into this massive toy store and I'm like, do these even exist anymore?

[31:31] I thought they were all out of business.

[31:33] And then they go through, they use a special key and go through an employee closet that connects

[31:38] to a different, to a closet in an Aruba toy store.

[31:43] Mm-hmm.

[31:43] And they, in the process, they scoop up a whole bunch of toys, which they will later use.

[31:49] Mm-hmm.

[31:49] The Rock's arm bracer to distort, what, alter the reality and make it a real thing.

Dan McCoy

[31:57] Yeah.

[31:57] This is a, I'm somewhere between the two of you because I'm like, well, if you're gonna

[32:03] make this movie, and I don't recommend it, but if you're gonna make it, like, you gotta

[32:07] do some of this stuff, right?

[32:08] You gotta be like, okay, let's, like, what are the Christmas things that we can work with

[32:14] here?

[32:14] But it also does feel like they put up a big whiteboard and they're like, Christmas.

[32:19] Go.

[32:20] Toys.

[32:21] Toy stores.

[32:22] What do you do with them?

[32:22] Like, we gotta go down the checklist, you know?

Stuart Wellington

[32:27] I do like the reoccurring, there's a, this movie got at least three laughs out of me.

[32:30] And one of them was when they're in the mall in Philadelphia and there's a woman angrily

[32:36] complaining on the phone about essential oils.

[32:39] And then they end up going into a mall in Germany and there's a woman in German complaining

[32:45] about essential oils.

Dan McCoy

[32:47] Yes.

[32:48] And Chris Evans clocks it, so I guess he speaks German.

[32:52] That's an unknown.

Stuart Wellington

[32:53] Yeah, interesting character trait.

Dan McCoy

[32:55] But anyway, Santa's being held by our villain.

[32:59] Turns out our villain is Kiernan Shipka, Miss Mad Men, Sabrina herself.

[33:04] She's draining his magic energy in some kind of Santa tank.

[33:09] A little of this, some of this is like a lot of order grouping things.

[33:14] That's one, yeah.

[33:14] And she's trying to duplicate some kind of a weapon, which is a reveal to be.

Stuart Wellington

[33:18] This is all what I call the blah, blah, blah section of the movie.

Dan McCoy

[33:21] Yeah.

[33:22] Yeah.

[33:23] She's got a weapon that's like the snow globe.

[33:25] She wants to use it.

[33:27] She says, I'll start with the first name on the list.

[33:29] And her magic list reveals the name Aaron Abel.

[33:32] And I'm like, there's no way that's the first name on the list.

[33:35] There's no like Aaron Aronson, Aardvark, Aardvark.

[33:39] Like, come on.

[33:39] Yeah.

Linda Holmes

[33:40] You know, you should put all these in a letter.

[33:45] Yeah.

[33:45] And you should send it to them.

[33:46] To Santa.

[33:47] In the event they make a sequel, send it to Santa.

[33:49] Dear Santa, I was very disappointed in your movie.

[33:53] And here's why.

[33:54] Also, I would like a pony.

Stuart Wellington

[33:56] I love that Linda's basically saying like a blanket to the flop house, go tell it to the Marines.

[34:03] To Elf.

[34:04] Yeah.

[34:04] To Elf.

[34:05] Exactly.

Dan McCoy

[34:07] Well, we're in Aruba now.

[34:08] On the beach, there are more thong.

Stuart Wellington

[34:09] Charlene made a comment.

[34:11] She's like, oh, I guess somebody wanted to go to Aruba.

[34:14] And I'm like, there's no way in the world they went to Aruba for this.

Dan McCoy

[34:18] Yeah.

[34:19] It looks like they just threw some sand.

[34:21] Yeah.

[34:21] But yeah, on the beach, there are more thong bikinis than I was expecting in Red One.

[34:27] And Evans uses his scumbum powers to detect other scumbums and locate the bad guys.

[34:34] There's a fight where the rock changes size from rock size to elf size.

Stuart Wellington

[34:39] I kind of like this.

[34:41] Yeah.

Linda Holmes

[34:42] You liked Little Rock?

Stuart Wellington

[34:43] Yeah, yeah.

[34:44] Wasn't that a show, Little Rock?

[34:46] Yeah, it wasn't.

[34:47] Wasn't that a state capital?

Linda Holmes

[34:49] Yeah, I think it was.

[34:50] It is a city.

[34:52] It's also, there was a show, I think, Young Rock, I think was a show.

[34:57] I think that's true.

Stuart Wellington

[34:58] Well, he's not young.

[34:58] He's just little because he clicks his little heels together and he gets small.

[35:01] Yeah.

Linda Holmes

[35:01] He gets small and then big.

Stuart Wellington

[35:03] Great Ant-Man.

[35:04] Yeah.

Linda Holmes

[35:05] It's pretty funny, though.

[35:07] But he only gets like, he gets like, he doesn't get tiny.

[35:10] No, just enough to be distracting.

[35:12] He gets like scale model size.

[35:14] Yeah.

[35:14] He gets like if you were making a model of the rock to like show somebody how you were

[35:19] going to costume him or something, but you didn't want it to be like six and a half feet

[35:23] tall.

[35:24] Yeah.

[35:24] He would make this scale model of the rock.

[35:27] That's how big he looks.

Stuart Wellington

[35:29] Yeah, because the rock is too big.

[35:30] So if you need to print him, you're like, I got to do this at what, like 60%?

[35:34] Yeah, exactly.

[35:35] This is a maquette of the rock.

[35:36] Exactly.

[35:36] We want to build the rock.

Linda Holmes

[35:38] It's a figure.

[35:40] It's a figure.

[35:41] Yeah.

[35:42] A rockette.

Dan McCoy

[35:44] So we do, a rockette.

[35:47] Christmassy.

[35:47] We do, we meet the middle man who's played by Nick Kroll.

[35:53] Nick Kroll.

[35:54] He makes a meal out of this one, guys.

Stuart Wellington

[35:56] He does.

Dan McCoy

[35:57] Yeah.

[35:59] No, he's always good for a big performance.

[36:02] He won't give the name of the woman who employed him because she will hear it.

[36:07] So the rock says, write it in the sand.

[36:09] And then Evans reads it aloud anyway, like a doofus.

[36:14] And it's Grilla, who is an actual figure from Scandinavian mythology, a kind of a troll queen.

[36:23] It's one of the guys that Han Solo shot.

[36:27] No, that's Grillo and Stitch.

[36:33] She hears her name from across the globe and possesses Kroll.

Stuart Wellington

[36:38] This is, I think, a fun bit.

[36:40] Like, he gives a lot to this.

[36:43] He's possessed.

[36:44] He enjoys this part.

[36:46] He's like, I'm not going to be in this movie long.

[36:48] I'm going to do the most here.

Linda Holmes

[36:50] He enjoys being possessed by a witch.

Stuart Wellington

[36:53] That is definitely true.

[36:54] I mean, I get it, guys.

Dan McCoy

[36:57] So through Kroll, she outlines her plan.

[37:02] She wants to punish everyone who's ever been naughty.

[37:05] And she sends some snowmen to attack them.

[37:09] These guys are hard to fight until you realize you can just yank their carrot noses off and kill them.

Stuart Wellington

[37:15] And they have freezing powers.

[37:16] And they're ridiculously jacked.

[37:18] And they all pile out of an ice cream truck.

[37:22] Ice cream truck, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[37:23] I got to look more like these snowmen.

[37:24] Yeah, yeah.

[37:26] We get a little vignette of Aaron Abel acting like an asshole and getting trapped in a snow globe left by the bad guys.

[37:33] And I'm supposed to, I guess, zap immediately back to Grilla, but doesn't.

[37:41] So I don't know.

[37:43] I don't know why this scene is in here necessarily.

Stuart Wellington

[37:46] I think they're trying to show that it's not quite ready yet.

[37:50] Yeah.

[37:50] So that it does something when you open the box.

[37:53] Yes.

[37:53] And they need to show the stakes so that later on when somebody opens a box, you're like, oh, no.

Linda Holmes

[37:58] They're just trying to introduce the idea that these snow globes are no bueno.

[38:03] You open the snow globe.

[38:04] You touch it.

[38:05] And like Aaron Abel, you scream inside your car and then you disappear.

Stuart Wellington

[38:12] It's such a shame, right?

[38:14] Because this really killed the snow globe industry when they put it in this movie like this because kids were terrified of them.

Linda Holmes

[38:20] There was a gigantic lawsuit, I think, from the snow globe industry that this is desamatory.

Stuart Wellington

[38:25] Didn't they have like a baseball stadium where they were just like burning snow globes?

[38:29] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Linda Holmes

[38:30] It was in Philadelphia.

[38:31] They throw them onto the field, you know.

Dan McCoy

[38:35] And previously, kids loved snow globes, their favorite toys.

[38:40] Mm-hmm.

[38:41] Just shaking them, looking at them after they've been too.

[38:44] Kids' favorite toy is their phone, I think, forever.

[38:46] Yeah.

[38:47] Yeah, that's true.

[38:48] So, okay.

[38:49] The trail's gone a little cold, but Lucy Liu and her team look for unauthorized magic and find one at the home of Santa's adopted brother.

[39:01] So, they go to Germany where Evans, on the way, gets a phone call about this concert from Dylan's mom that he should go to.

[39:10] But he's busy saving Christmas.

[39:12] And we get another heart-to-heart where Evans tells The Rock he's staying out of Dylan's life because he doesn't want to disappoint him.

[39:19] And The Rock is like, well, that strategy is clearly not working.

[39:23] So, we're going to get a Christmas change of heart, I think.

Linda Holmes

[39:27] Should be a good dad, hacker dad.

[39:29] Mm-hmm.

[39:30] Fingers crossed.

[39:31] Fingers crossed.

[39:32] Christmas.

Dan McCoy

[39:34] We get a little info dump outside of Santa's brother's lair about how they used to work together.

[39:39] But the brother got interested in punishing people more than, punishing the naughty, more than rewarding the nice.

[39:45] So, Santa took the list away from him.

[39:48] And, of course, Santa's brother is revealed to be Krampus.

Stuart Wellington

[39:52] Mm-hmm.

[39:52] Krampus.

[39:52] Of course.

[39:53] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[39:54] Everyone's favorite Christmas-themed villain, I guess.

[39:58] Demon.

[39:59] Semi-villain.

[39:59] Yeah.

[40:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[40:01] Oh, man, as Evans later says.

[40:04] Mm-hmm.

Dan McCoy

[40:04] Yeah.

[40:06] So, Evans immediately ignores The Rock's warning not to touch anything inside of Krampus' home.

[40:12] And steals some gold, which gets them caught and in prison.

[40:16] The Rock gives him a little quiet lecture about there's always a choice to be good or not be good.

[40:23] And he also says the line, I was one day away from retirement.

[40:27] Hell yeah.

[40:28] I was happy to hear.

[40:30] Because why do it if you're not going to say it?

[40:32] Exactly.

Stuart Wellington

[40:34] So, I do like there was a little bit where they have to distract some hellhounds by The Rock.

[40:42] What?

[40:43] Altering the reality of his little rubber chicken keychain to turn into a chicken that distracts the dogs.

[40:48] Mm-hmm.

[40:48] Only for it to show up right when they're leaving so that the chicken can come back to him.

[40:53] That was a cool character.

[40:54] I like that one.

[40:55] Helpful rescue chicken.

[40:56] Yeah.

[40:57] That's very D&D to me.

Dan McCoy

[40:59] That feels like a very D&D move.

[41:01] They go to see Krampus.

[41:03] He's in the middle of this slapping game where creatures slap each other to unconsciousness or death.

[41:09] What do you think of the slapping game, Stuart?

[41:11] Would you ever?

[41:12] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[41:12] I mean, I'm a gamer boy.

[41:15] Put me in.

[41:16] Okay.

Linda Holmes

[41:17] I liked this because I thought it was, I think it's extremely weird.

[41:21] And I think this movie is at its best when it's more weird.

[41:24] Yep.

[41:25] And I think the idea of them just slapping the shit out of each other is weird and funny.

[41:32] I was into the slapping contest.

[41:34] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[41:35] Yeah.

[41:35] And this is a rare moment where The Rock is presented, rare moment in his career where The Rock is presented to be less tough than someone else.

[41:44] Yes.

[41:45] Yes, that's true.

Dan McCoy

[41:46] There's no, you didn't put in his contract, like, The Rock must be shown to be able to beat any Krampuses.

Stuart Wellington

[41:53] Yeah.

[41:54] He can't be shown as getting the shit slapped out of him by a mythological figure.

Linda Holmes

[41:59] I mean, it's a good thing they didn't have Vin Diesel playing Krampus or they couldn't have done it this way, I think.

[42:05] Because wasn't that the rumor was that they wouldn't allow each other to beat them up in the, or was that him and Jason Statham?

Dan McCoy

[42:13] No, no, that was, yeah, it was him and Vin Diesel.

[42:16] The understanding I had was, yeah, that all fights had to sort of be interrupted at the end.

[42:22] So there was no clear winner.

[42:24] Because nobody can lose a fight yet.

[42:25] Yeah.

[42:25] Oh, boy.

[42:26] Yeah.

[42:28] So The Rock tries to appeal to Krampus' brotherly affections.

Stuart Wellington

[42:32] Vin Diesel's history with being a street shark spokesperson, I think would have really translated well to him being a good Krampus.

[42:39] Yeah.

[42:39] Not to deride the guy who's playing Krampus who was doing.

[42:43] Yeah.

[42:43] He was also an Iron Giant.

[42:45] Yeah.

[42:45] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[42:45] And the guy who plays Krampus, I think, is a Game of Thrones guy.

[42:48] But he is doing his damnedest to sound like Nandor from What We Do in the Shadows.

Dan McCoy

[42:53] Yeah, he was a street shark spokesperson?

Stuart Wellington

[42:56] Yeah, he was like, there's a commercial of Vin Diesel selling street sharks.

Dan McCoy

[42:59] Okay.

[43:00] You haven't seen this?

[43:02] Maybe.

[43:03] This is, it slipped my mind if I had.

Stuart Wellington

[43:04] Okay, we're going to pause the podcast and Dan's going to Google this real quick.

Dan McCoy

[43:09] It's going to change your life.

Stuart Wellington

[43:10] It's like Googling Vin Diesel with hair, which is also a very fun thing to look at.

Dan McCoy

[43:14] At first it sounded to me like, you know, like the street sharks, you know, would amongst themselves, you know, come up with like their feelings on a thing.

[43:23] And then Vin Diesel would come out and be like.

Stuart Wellington

[43:25] Yeah, he was a representative for street sharks.

[43:30] He's like the big slam moo is really standing up for trans rights.

Linda Holmes

[43:34] It's the most bureaucratic part of West Side Story.

Dan McCoy

[43:40] So Krampus says, look, I'll let you, the wolf, Jack O'Malley, Chris Evans, I'll let you go to deliver a warning to Mora to not do this, not sneak into my lands.

[43:52] But I am going to keep Callum Drift forever as my prisoner, as punishment.

[43:59] And so.

Linda Holmes

[44:02] Nobody ever wants to imprison anybody temporarily.

[44:04] Have you noticed that?

[44:05] In things like this, it's always like you're going to be imprisoned forever in the snow globe.

Stuart Wellington

[44:09] You're going to get bored of him for a while.

[44:12] Well, exactly.

Linda Holmes

[44:12] It's like, how long do you want to feed this guy?

[44:14] Have you seen him?

Stuart Wellington

[44:15] Yeah.

[44:16] I've seen what he eats.

[44:18] Have you seen what the rock eats?

[44:19] It's crazy.

[44:20] I mean, I don't think they're going to keep up with his regiment.

[44:23] Three giant salmon.

[44:25] Yeah.

[44:27] Yeah.

[44:27] He eats one of those steaks that tips your whole prehistoric car over.

Dan McCoy

[44:33] I mean, he is called the rock, right?

[44:35] That's a Flintstones name.

Stuart Wellington

[44:37] It's true.

[44:38] It's true.

Dan McCoy

[44:39] Oh, also in terms of like their detective work or whatever, it turns out that Santa is not there.

[44:46] That Rila just came there to get the original evil snow globe that she's now manufacturing.

Stuart Wellington

[44:50] Because she and Krampus used to date or be an item of some flavor.

[44:54] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[44:55] So, again, Evans is free to go, but he takes the rock's words to heart about seizing the opportunity to do the right thing.

[45:04] And he says he recognizes another betting man in Krampus and challenges Krampus to a slap fight against the rock for their freedom.

[45:15] And the rock, of course, is like WTF because Krampus is, you know, like a winter god, essentially.

[45:23] Yeah.

[45:24] And he is overmatched until Evans pickpockets the risk doohickey back, which allows him to slap Krampus harder.

[45:33] Yeah.

[45:33] And also zap some Rock'em Sock'em robots large so they can escape.

Linda Holmes

[45:37] I think that's cute.

[45:37] I like the Rock'em Sock'em robots.

[45:39] I did like the Rock'em Sock'em robots.

[45:40] But now they're a true team.

Dan McCoy

[45:43] They leave to save Christmas.

[45:46] But Evans, again, accidentally says Grilla's name, which makes her manifest a piano in the road in front of their car,

[45:53] which is playing the dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy.

[45:56] And it has a present address to Jack O'Malley.

Stuart Wellington

[46:00] That was a good line when Chris Evans is like, does this sort of thing happen to you a lot?

[46:05] And the Rock's like, what, a player piano in the middle of a road in Germany?

[46:10] No, that's rare.

[46:12] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[46:13] Yeah.

[46:15] Yeah.

[46:15] He is wisely suspicious of this mystery magic piano present.

[46:24] He doesn't pick up the snow globe until Dylan phones mad that he is not at this jazz pageant performance.

Stuart Wellington

[46:35] Guys, TV and movies show people using FaceTime like all the time.

[46:39] Yeah.

[46:40] Do you guys face – is this a thing that I just don't do and everybody else is doing?

[46:45] Should I be FaceTiming?

Linda Holmes

[46:46] The young people might.

[46:47] I don't personally because the percentage of the time that I wish to be seen is not as high as it is perhaps for Chris Evans and his son.

Stuart Wellington

[46:56] I like having – I like being seen a lot.

[46:59] But I also feel like it's hard for me to get the angle right so it's not just all nose hair.

[47:04] Right.

[47:04] Sure.

Dan McCoy

[47:05] I would say that like definitely like phoning is sort of mostly off the menu.

[47:14] It's primarily text and I will FaceTime but only with like family if it's like this is – we got to see each other face-to-face every once in a while.

[47:24] Yeah, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[47:25] Make sure my dad didn't get a really weird haircut or something.

Linda Holmes

[47:29] I do have like – I have a couple of people that I still talk to on the phone and the great thing is that now it's like – now it's like really special.

[47:38] Like I have a friend who lives in Wisconsin and she calls me like sometimes from her car when she's on the way home from work.

[47:43] She'll just call me just so we can chat.

[47:45] And like it's really cool because like nobody talks to me at the phone anymore.

[47:48] So she calls me and I was like, yay!

[47:50] Because, you know, my little phone lights up which usually just means it's something about work.

[47:54] Yeah.

[47:55] It's like, oh, it's someone who just wants to chat and say hello.

[47:58] So I agree.

[47:58] Phoning is mostly gone but it's not completely gone.

[48:01] And when it comes back in my life, I'm always a little bit glad.

Dan McCoy

[48:04] I will say that the one person I will have a phone conversation with is the absent Elliot Caitlin.

[48:10] Every once in a while we will have a phone call to reaffirm our friendship apart from this business enterprise long running.

[48:20] That's really important.

Stuart Wellington

[48:21] We have to have real – a lot of it's always like Elliot, you need to take more time off.

[48:25] Yeah.

[48:26] Yeah.

[48:27] It's a lot of me just –

[48:28] You're killing yourself, Elliot.

[48:28] Yeah, you're killing yourself.

[48:29] And sometimes I'll get a phone call from – I'm always excited when I get a phone call from Hodgman when he's driving up to Maine or something.

Linda Holmes

[48:37] Nice.

[48:38] I absolutely believe it.

Dan McCoy

[48:40] Yeah.

[48:41] Entertain me, Stuart.

Stuart Wellington

[48:42] I'm like, oh, I'll try.

[48:43] Oh, this is what a bar is.

[48:46] This is what beers we have on tap.

Dan McCoy

[48:49] Okay, so The Rock realizes that if Grilla wants to mass produce these snow globes, the one place to do it is the North Pole.

[48:58] So Santa must actually have never left.

[49:00] It was all a fake out, a diversion.

Stuart Wellington

[49:03] Do we address that Chris Evans and his son both get sucked up in snow globes?

[49:06] Oh, yeah.

[49:06] Sorry, sorry.

Dan McCoy

[49:07] We sort of – yeah, we got diverted in the middle of it.

[49:11] Yes.

[49:12] Dylan had phoned him mad about not being at the performance and sending this dumb snow globe instead.

[49:20] And he's like, no, don't touch the snow globe.

[49:23] He gets sucked in.

[49:24] So Chris Evans says, you know, I'm going to get sucked into this snow globe.

[49:29] Find me.

[49:30] Find me.

Linda Holmes

[49:30] Very last of the Mohicans.

Dan McCoy

[49:32] Yeah.

[49:32] I mean, if you're going to steal, steal from the best.

[49:35] So romantic.

[49:36] So romantic.

[49:38] Find me.

[49:39] So, yes.

[49:40] Again, The Rock realizes, okay, he must actually be at the North Pole.

[49:45] Santa must have never left.

[49:47] It was a fake out.

[49:48] He calls the pole.

[49:49] He realizes that Mrs. Claus is actually one of Grilla's shape-shifting sons.

Stuart Wellington

[49:55] Yeah, yeah.

[49:55] You're like, your foster parents are dead.

Dan McCoy

[50:00] House wolf.

[50:04] So, in the globe, the snow globes, that is, Evans tells Dylan that, look, we're not here because of anything that, Dylan, you did.

[50:16] I'm sorry, I've been a bad father.

[50:18] And their hearts figuratively grow three sizes, shattering them out of their globes, where they reunite with The Rock and Lucy Liu, who have snuck back into the pole.

[50:28] And they realize that Kiernan Shipka, Grilla, needs Santa to power the sleigh so she can deliver her evil presence.

[50:37] So they can't let the sleigh take off.

[50:39] And there's a chase and a fight, and they free Santa, but Grilla takes her giant troll form.

[50:47] It's pretty cool.

[50:48] I like it.

[50:48] They have no hope of fighting her until Krampus arrives, having had his predictable change of heart.

[50:53] Do you think Kiernan Shipka mo-capped all that?

Stuart Wellington

[50:58] Actually, that's a good question.

Linda Holmes

[51:01] I don't think so.

[51:02] That thing had a lot of arms.

[51:04] I don't know what you'd gain, necessarily.

Dan McCoy

[51:07] I mean, she might have a lot of arms.

[51:08] We don't know.

[51:09] Yeah, we don't know.

[51:09] It's true.

[51:10] CGI'd out in other roles.

[51:12] That's a good point.

Linda Holmes

[51:13] Yeah, I heard that about Mad Men, that that's what made it such an expensive show to produce,

[51:18] is they're just cutting out all the extra arms.

Stuart Wellington

[51:20] Yeah.

[51:20] They considered putting him back in for totally killer, but still, they didn't think it worked.

[51:25] Yeah.

[51:25] Wow.

[51:26] There's a cut where she has extra arms.

[51:28] What a fucking hole.

Dan McCoy

[51:29] Totally killer.

[51:30] Oh, okay.

[51:31] Anyway.

[51:31] More CGI fighting.

[51:33] Grilla grabs the rock to kill him, but in awakened Santa yells his magic reindeer

[51:38] word.

[51:39] Word.

[51:40] And the rock slips from her grasp, and she's butted by those hyperdrive antlers into the

[51:46] sleigh of snow globes.

[51:47] She gets trapped her inside.

[51:49] They trap her inside.

[51:50] Mm-hmm.

[51:51] And there's some brief, unsentimental making up between Santa and Krampus, and now we've

[51:56] got to deliver presents.

[51:58] It's Christmas time.

[52:00] Evans and his kid get to ride on the sleigh, watching Santa deliver billions of gifts at

[52:06] warp speed.

[52:07] There's a lot of Pym particle growing and shrinking.

[52:10] Do they text his mom why he's missing?

[52:14] Oh, there's a call where, like, Dylan's like, you won't believe where I am.

[52:17] And I, you know, with no context for the mom, I assume she doesn't believe where he is.

[52:23] Yeah, it's true.

Linda Holmes

[52:24] You're like, what does your jerk dad have you doing now?

Dan McCoy

[52:28] Mm-hmm.

[52:28] Yeah.

[52:29] That's one of your dad's con men friends dressed up as Santa.

Stuart Wellington

[52:34] Santa can't believe that, Jack.

Dan McCoy

[52:37] There's one moment I like in the present deliveries where Santa steps on a bulb accidentally and

[52:44] an elf swoops down to replace it to erase any evidence of him ever being there.

Stuart Wellington

[52:48] I thought it was a good bit when he was taking cookies off plates and there's a shot of him

[52:53] taking a macaron off a plate and then putting it back.

Linda Holmes

[52:55] Yeah, because earlier in the movie it was established that he doesn't like macaroni.

[52:59] Macaroons.

Dan McCoy

[52:59] Yeah.

[53:00] And Santa will eat all of your macaroons.

[53:02] I love those things.

[53:03] Mm-hmm.

Stuart Wellington

[53:05] You heard it here, folks.

[53:06] Male Dan macaroons.

Linda Holmes

[53:08] Male Dan, all the coconut macaroons that you left there.

Dan McCoy

[53:12] As the sun rises, the rocks, he's father and son reconnecting and the music rises too.

[53:20] And he says to Santa, he says, I almost lost it.

[53:24] And Santa says, it's easy to lose it.

[53:27] The important thing is to keep trying.

[53:29] Which, given the state of the world, I found more moving than the film deserved.

[53:33] Yeah, yeah.

[53:33] That's the plot of the movie, losing it, right?

Stuart Wellington

[53:36] Yeah, that's what it is.

[53:38] Well, this is because he looks over and he sees Chris Evans had morphed into his child version,

[53:43] right?

[53:43] Mm-hmm.

[53:44] Mm-hmm.

[53:45] Yep.

[53:46] Anyway.

Linda Holmes

[53:46] Which means really Dylan should not be there.

[53:49] Because like, if we've morphed back to dad as a child, then like Dylan should really not

[53:54] exist yet.

[53:55] Oh, no.

[53:56] He exists only as an idea.

Stuart Wellington

[53:58] I think he sees people as children, not his eyes are time turners.

Linda Holmes

[54:03] Not time travel.

[54:04] I hear you.

[54:05] Your way's good too, I guess.

Stuart Wellington

[54:07] Yeah, no, I mean, both work.

[54:09] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[54:10] Well, they have a moment of pride over saving Christmas and we get Santa Claus is coming

[54:16] to town, blaring over the credits.

[54:18] Yep.

[54:18] And that's the tale of Red Blood.

Stuart Wellington

[54:20] Amazon made a point of telling me that that was Mariah Carey singing.

[54:24] Mm-hmm.

[54:24] Yeah.

[54:25] Were there any bloops or any post-credits things?

[54:28] Because I turned it off immediately.

Dan McCoy

[54:30] No post-credits stuff.

[54:32] Okay.

[54:33] Okay.

[54:34] Sorry, I was distracted because Barbara Crampton sent in the line that she recorded for Fly

[54:40] Scraper.

[54:41] Oh, that's great.

[54:41] And she said, here you go, hugs and kisses.

[54:44] Oh, man.

[54:45] She's the best.

[54:45] Hugs and kisses.

Linda Holmes

[54:47] Yeah, I thought about you, Stuart.

[54:48] We did a whole Pop Culture Happy Hour episode about post-credits sequences.

[54:53] Oh, cool.

[54:53] I thought about you, the guy who never sees them.

Stuart Wellington

[54:56] Yeah.

[54:57] Those words don't make any sense to me.

[54:59] Post-credits sequence?

[55:00] That doesn't make any sense.

[55:01] Yeah.

[55:02] Yeah.

[55:02] The story is over at the credits.

[55:04] Yeah.

Linda Holmes

[55:04] I took the anti.

[55:05] Listen, I was the lady who left too early at Sinners.

[55:10] Jesus.

[55:11] No.

Dan McCoy

[55:11] You're the second person I've talked to who did that.

[55:13] Yeah.

[55:14] Because that one actually raises the movie up significantly.

[55:18] I know.

[55:18] Even though I really had-

[55:19] That's the death by temptation moment.

Linda Holmes

[55:20] I had totally loved it.

[55:21] But, you know, I was at a press screening and I was trying to get to my car.

Stuart Wellington

[55:25] I was like, okay, go leave.

[55:27] You're like, that's a credit.

[55:28] Movie's over.

[55:28] I know who won.

Linda Holmes

[55:29] I know, dude.

[55:30] I never do that.

[55:31] I usually stay and I didn't stay.

[55:33] And then, like, it took forever for, like, my buddy that I was meeting after to get out of there.

[55:37] And he was like, did you see the part where blah, blah, blah?

[55:39] And I was like, no.

Stuart Wellington

[55:42] You're like, I did not want to risk seeing the name of a single grip.

Linda Holmes

[55:47] So I was the you in that situation.

[55:50] Wow.

[55:50] I'm so sorry.

[55:50] I'm sorry to you with many other movies.

[55:53] But, no, I don't think this one didn't have any as far as I know.

Dan McCoy

[55:56] Well, let us do our final judgments on Red One.

[56:01] Whether this is a good, bad movie, a bad, bad movie, or a movie we kind of liked.

[56:07] So I scoffed at the idea of Red One when you said you had enjoyed it when we talked last.

[56:18] I have to say, I have to say, I'm still going to come down on bad, bad, bad.

[56:29] I'm not going to be a good idea of cliches.

[56:31] That on just on like a story screenplay level, I can't see my way clear to enjoying it.

[56:38] But I will say, for a bad, bad, I liked it a lot more than I thought I was going to.

[56:43] It was a lot more watchable than I assumed.

[56:46] I think that between, again, Jake Kasten is a reliable sort of like working director.

[56:56] Chris Evans in particular I enjoyed, but the whole cast is doing a pretty good job.

[57:01] Even, I'm getting tired of this type of thing for The Rock,

[57:06] but this is less annoying than this type of thing for The Rock usually is.

[57:10] So like, it's, I will give it my highest possible recommendation, which is marginal.

[57:16] I liked it better than I thought I would.

Linda Holmes

[57:18] Even bad, bad is still a scale.

[57:20] It's still a scale.

Stuart Wellington

[57:21] Yeah.

[57:21] Yeah, I mean, I would say, I'm going to kind of be with you.

[57:24] I'm going to say this is a soft bad, bad for me.

[57:27] I, it, I'm just not, I'm like so tired of the magical thing is real actually,

[57:32] and here's all the rules.

[57:34] I find it takes a lot of the joy out of life and the movie.

[57:40] But I think that the two leads are very winning.

[57:43] I, as long as Dwayne The Rock Johnson is not running for office,

[57:47] I still think he is a very fine, passable movie star, action hero guy.

[57:52] Chris Evans, he's great.

[57:55] You know, it's, it's fine.

[57:57] I wish there was more, I guess, women in this movie, but that's, there's a couple of women in it,

[58:02] but they don't really get to do anything.

[58:05] And yeah, like the, yeah, it's not, not my bag, but I'm not too mad at it.

Linda Holmes

[58:11] I feel like you guys feel an obligation to let me down easy that I am, I assure you,

[58:16] it's not necessary.

[58:18] I am by far in the minority about this movie and saying that it is a movie that I kind of like.

[58:24] I, I, uh, I think the reason it worked on me is that throughout, I think, almost the entire movie,

[58:33] Chris Evans thinks he's in a comedy and The Rock thinks he's in the North Pole has fallen,

[58:42] slash taken for, slash something incredibly serious.

[58:48] Yes.

[58:48] And I think the fact that he, I think even for him, I think he, he leans into the silliness part

[58:54] and the kind of up eyebrow thing less than he does in most movies and stays very, very severe as does like Lucy Liu.

[59:03] And, you know, and I think the fact that most of those people play it like super, super, super straight is what made it funny to me.

[59:11] I can't really like, I can't really make a good argument on its behalf other than Chris Evans' hot dirt bag.

[59:19] But watching it again, I was like, I'm probably not going to like this.

[59:22] Watching it like outside the context of, you know, really needing to be entertained at that particular moment.

[59:27] And like having this weird 40X experience where I was just so happy every time they stopped shaking my chair

[59:32] that I think it gave me a rush of like affection for the movie every time they stopped beating the hell out of me while I was in my seat.

[59:39] But honestly, watching at home, I still liked it.

[59:43] I still liked it.

[59:44] I still liked it even as a, as a, as a, as a summer movie.

[59:47] So what can I say?

[59:49] It, it, it is what it is.

[59:51] I am that girl.

Dan McCoy

[59:53] Yeah.

[59:54] Yeah.

[59:54] And I, I, look, I, maybe I was.

[59:57] She said you don't have to let her down easily.

[59:58] No, no.

[59:59] Maybe I, maybe my language was gentle, but I, I actually, yeah, it is marginal for me.

[1:00:03] Like I came so close to, to being something I was like, oh, I kind of like this, but.

[1:00:08] That's right.

Linda Holmes

[1:00:09] I mean, to me, it's a good one to watch for me in the future.

[1:00:13] If I watch it at Christmas, I will watch it with like a lot of like fast forward button because.

[1:00:17] Yeah.

[1:00:18] I really did mean it when I said like, to me, I like Karen and Shipka, but most of the like

[1:00:22] actual baddie stuff is very like blah, blah, blah.

[1:00:25] I don't care.

[1:00:25] Just, I just tell me what they're fighting over and get me back to the buddy movie.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:29] How do you think this one compares to some of the other like Christmas kind of action-y movies?

[1:00:35] Like something like Ernest Saves Christmas.

[1:00:38] What was that?

[1:00:39] That's what we're saying.

[1:00:40] What was the.

[1:00:41] Violent Night.

[1:00:42] Or the Holdovers.

Dan McCoy

[1:00:46] It's emotional violence.

Linda Holmes

[1:00:49] It's definitely, it's definitely not up there.

[1:00:51] I think with like the best Christmas action movies.

[1:00:55] But it's also not down there with the Christmas movies that make me hate Christmas.

[1:01:02] Such as?

[1:01:04] Oh.

[1:01:05] Come on.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:05] You gotta name, you gotta spill the tea.

[1:01:07] You gotta name names.

Linda Holmes

[1:01:07] I can't.

[1:01:08] I, and now of course I'm completely blanking.

[1:01:12] Like probably.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:13] How do you feel about like the Hallmark Christmas movies?

[1:01:16] Love them.

[1:01:17] Okay.

Linda Holmes

[1:01:18] Love them.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:18] If you're gonna talk trash, I was gonna tell Alonzo to turn off the podcast.

[1:01:21] No, no, no.

Linda Holmes

[1:01:21] The interesting thing is like those, those have markedly improved in the last few years.

[1:01:27] Yeah.

[1:01:28] I, I think they had some executive shuffling maybe and I'm not sure if that's gonna continue.

[1:01:33] But those had actually like, they're, they're much more endearingly written than, than I think people who only watched them like 10 years ago.

[1:01:41] Yeah.

[1:01:41] Would necessarily be aware of.

[1:01:43] They write some pretty cute ones.

[1:01:44] I love those.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:44] I would imagine the, the writer pool has grown for that.

[1:01:48] Like the people who want to write those movies.

Linda Holmes

[1:01:50] I think that's right.

[1:01:51] I actually know, I actually know somebody who I knew from like an old job who writes for them, who's a good writer and writes like good cute movies.

[1:01:59] And I'm always so excited when he has like a, a movie that's running.

[1:02:03] So yeah, I mean, I, I thought you were gonna say where does this fit on the, on the scale of these like cheapo.

[1:02:11] Yeah.

[1:02:12] Yeah.

[1:02:12] Streaming, streaming blockbusters.

[1:02:15] And I think on that, I think on that scale, this is like probably top half of those.

[1:02:21] Yeah.

[1:02:22] Yeah.

[1:02:22] That's probably, that's fair.

[1:02:22] But like I said, I have like a, I have like a weird soft spot for these.

[1:02:25] I don't know why.

[1:02:26] It's, it's one of my most inexplicable.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:30] It helps that it's not dreary.

[1:02:32] I think some of them end up being like weirdly dreary.

[1:02:34] Like I feel like the gray man was too dreary for me.

Linda Holmes

[1:02:37] I get that.

[1:02:38] And, and one of my, one of my friends who saw this said that she wished it had been like more colorful, that the color palette is very, like even the Santa suit is like a red leather.

[1:02:47] That's kind of a, it's a sort of a dark red, like almost a maroon.

[1:02:51] She wanted like a more Christmassy, like red look.

[1:02:54] And I get that.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:54] Yeah, but they're not trying, but they're not trying to go for that.

[1:02:56] They're trying to go for like serious, cool, like leather guy.

[1:02:59] Spike TV.

[1:03:00] Yeah.

[1:03:00] Exactly.

Dan McCoy

[1:03:00] But I'm so tired of that digital dreariness.

[1:03:04] I, I, I was thinking the same thing.

Linda Holmes

[1:03:06] Yeah.

[1:03:06] I get that.

[1:03:07] I like the, I like the polar bear.

S4

[1:03:16] Hey, it's John Moe from Depression Mode.

[1:03:18] Every week on our show, we have honest, humane conversations with artists, entertainers, and experts about what it's like to live with an interesting mind.

[1:03:27] I just interviewed Gavin Rossdale from the band Bush.

[1:03:30] You might be wondering what would a successful, handsome, popular musician know about mental health?

[1:03:37] Turns out lots.

[1:03:38] All the time we're like, we're, we're forced into happy situations, sad situations, challenging situations, happy, sad, challenging.

[1:03:47] It just never ends.

[1:03:49] And why should it?

[1:03:50] You know, we're just the sum of all these journeys.

[1:03:53] Check out Depression Mode with John Moe every Monday at MaximumFun.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

S5

[1:04:00] Have you been looking for a new podcast all about nerdy pop culture?

[1:04:03] Well, I have just the thing for you.

[1:04:06] Secret Histories of Nerd Mysteries.

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:09] Secret Histories of Nerd Mysteries is a weekly pop culture history podcast hosted by me, host Austin.

S5

[1:04:15] And me, host Brenda.

[1:04:16] We've already tackled mysteries such as what happened to the puppets from Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer,

[1:04:21] a Snoopy Mexican, and why do people hate Barney so much?

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:25] From theme parks to cartoons to 80s, 90s, and 2000s nostalgia, we tackle it all.

S5

[1:04:29] Check us out every Tuesday on MaximumFun.org and wherever you get podcasts.

Dan McCoy

[1:04:38] This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace.

[1:04:41] If you're a professional on the internet, you need a website.

[1:04:45] And Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer services and get paid.

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[1:04:58] And Squarespace makes it easy to streamline your workflow with built-in appointment scheduling and marketing tools.

[1:05:05] Squarespace also offers a full library of professionally designed, award-winning website templates for every use and category.

[1:05:12] And it's easy to use with intuitive drag-and-drop editing and unrivaled visual design effects.

[1:05:19] No experience required.

[1:05:21] So head to squarespace.com slash flop for a free trial.

[1:05:26] And when you're ready to launch, use offer code FLOP, F-L-O-P,

[1:05:31] to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[1:05:36] And also, a little personal advertising.

[1:05:40] Flop TV Season 3 is officially on sale.

[1:05:44] Tickets are on sale.

[1:05:45] We'll be streaming six episodes once a month from September through February of next year in our usual time slot.

[1:05:52] That's the first Saturday of the month at 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 Pacific.

[1:05:57] This year's theme is Flopster Piece Theater.

[1:05:59] We'll be covering some classic bad movies decade by decade from the 2000s back to the 1950s.

[1:06:06] And those movies are The Adventures of Pluto Nash, Jack Frost, the Michael Keaton one, Xanadu, Zardoz, Dr. Doolittle, and Plan 9 from Outer Space.

[1:06:19] These are film discussions, not screenings.

[1:06:22] We don't have the expensive screening rights.

[1:06:24] But we will enliven every show with presentations, fun pre-tapes, and questions from the chat.

[1:06:32] As I said, tickets are on sale now.

[1:06:34] Go to theflophouse.simpleticks.com.

[1:06:37] That is Ticks, T-I-X.

[1:06:40] And just like last time, individual show ticks will be $7.

[1:06:44] Or you can get a full season pass for $35 for the whole season.

[1:06:50] That's the equivalent of getting one episode for free.

[1:06:53] Also, if you have tickets, that entitles you to video-on-demand versions of the show after the live taping is done.

[1:07:00] You can watch those or re-watch at your leisure through the end of February or possibly later if we offer a grace period.

[1:07:06] So if you miss a show when it airs or buy a season pass later in the season, that is no problem.

[1:07:14] You can go back and catch up.

[1:07:16] The ticket link, again, is theflophouse.simpleticks.com.

[1:07:20] We hope you will join us.

[1:07:23] Now back to the show.

[1:07:25] Well, let's move on to letters from listeners.

[1:07:29] If you're a listener, maybe this is your letter.

[1:07:32] Who knows?

[1:07:34] There's a chance.

[1:07:35] Is your name Ben, last name withheld?

[1:07:37] Well, let's see if this is your letter.

[1:07:39] As I write this, I am listening to the Venom Last Dance episode.

[1:07:43] I have neither read Venom nor seen any of the movies or even the Raimi Spider-Man 3.

[1:07:50] This means that when I listen to or passively ingest Venom-related trivia, I am deeply confused about how he is represented on screen.

[1:07:59] He can be worn like clothes, but he's also Eddie Brock's internal monologue.

[1:08:03] Eddie Brock can transform into him, but also Venom can hold on to Eddie Brock.

[1:08:09] Are Venom or Eddie Brock or both of them biting people's heads off?

[1:08:13] He slash it can dance?

[1:08:15] Just some of the challenges I face in movie nerd podcast land.

[1:08:20] I mean, yeah, the thing is like all of that is accurate.

[1:08:22] Like having seen it, I'm like, yeah, of course.

[1:08:26] When you lay it out like that, it seems crazy.

[1:08:29] Have any of you guys been so completely lost by the description of a movie that you had to see it to understand how it worked on screen?

[1:08:39] Thanks for the great memories and for being such great companions to my growing older.

[1:08:44] Long may you endure.

[1:08:45] Peace.

[1:08:46] Venom last name withheld.

[1:08:48] This is such an interesting question.

[1:08:51] I wanted to pose it even though I don't know if I can think of a good example.

[1:08:56] I'm sure there's stuff where I'm like, wait, what?

Linda Holmes

[1:08:59] I will say like my immediate connection to this question is also about listening to episodes of this show where I haven't seen the movie, whether it's like a new episode, old episode.

[1:09:11] Some of it is like some of the with the kind of catalog episodes are things that I've never even heard of.

[1:09:16] And I'm like, I never even heard of this.

[1:09:19] Never saw it.

[1:09:19] Never heard of it.

[1:09:20] Have no idea.

[1:09:21] And sometimes there have been things where I'm like, OK, I'm going to sneak in and like see what this actually looks like.

[1:09:26] Like, what does this?

[1:09:27] I remember.

[1:09:28] Oh, gosh.

[1:09:29] I'm trying to remember what it was.

[1:09:31] I don't think it was when you did Food Fight.

[1:09:33] It was one of the animated ones.

[1:09:35] The description of the animation was so evocative that I was like, I have to actually go see what this animation looks like.

[1:09:40] So I think like I think it can come up anytime you're hearing people discuss something that like no matter how.

[1:09:49] Like specific the visual description is, you just really feel like you want to reference.

[1:09:54] So it's not uncommon for me to go in and like, you know, look up something.

[1:09:59] But I think other than that, I usually now am so like overexposed to imagery from movies and stuff like that,

[1:10:08] that I usually have at least some reference point if it's something new and something relatively popular.

[1:10:13] Like I don't care about Venom either.

[1:10:16] But I sort of knew some stuff about Venom just like by osmosis.

Dan McCoy

[1:10:20] So there is it's not exactly this where it's not like I can't get my head around it.

[1:10:25] But I was thinking that like sometimes I read criticism.

[1:10:31] I read reviews and either because they don't want to reveal something or because the movie's tone is hard to describe.

[1:10:42] I'm like, I'm not sure what this movie is.

[1:10:45] Like I need to see it to understand.

[1:10:48] And one of the things that I had that experience with is the movie Good One, which is a very simple story about a girl going on a camping trip with her dad and her dad's friend.

[1:11:01] But the way like criticism around it went, I'm like, I don't understand.

[1:11:09] Is this like like is this a thriller?

[1:11:12] Is this a drama?

[1:11:14] Like what like I was trying to fit it into a box.

[1:11:16] And having seen it, like I understand what it is.

[1:11:21] And like I don't think it needs to fit into any kind of box necessarily.

[1:11:26] But like I don't I kind of also get why it's hard to write about because it's so much about tone and small things that you have to see it to understand.

Linda Holmes

[1:11:39] Well, and the other thing that sometimes happens for for me when I'm talking about movies is that depending on how much distance there is from the movie, this is more of an issue with new things that sometimes you really do want to talk about the essence of something in a way that people would consider to be spoiling it.

[1:11:55] And so sometimes you're talking around things in the movie so much that it's really difficult to convey how the thing actually looks because you can't talk very specifically about anything.

[1:12:09] And so that can be, I think, a reason why sometimes people feel like the thing is just not they can't get their arms around what in the hell you're talking about.

[1:12:16] Yeah.

[1:12:16] You're trying not to say what happens in it.

[1:12:19] And like so I think, you know, that can come up, too.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:22] I had this experience talking to Stuart just recently because I mostly enjoy Mike Flanagan and Stuart's more of a doubter.

[1:12:32] But I saw Life of Chuck and I was trying to be like, no, I enjoyed it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:36] And I was trying to explain it in a way that makes me interested but not reveal what the whole deal is.

Linda Holmes

[1:12:43] I think I ran into that exact thing with that exact movie when I wrote a review of that movie.

[1:12:48] And I had exactly the same experience.

[1:12:50] It's really hard to describe.

[1:12:52] But you don't want to sound like you're being like, oh, I can't even describe it to you.

[1:12:56] It's so like, you know, it's not that.

[1:12:58] It's like trying to actually explain how that movie is structured is you feel like you're giving away something that maybe the person has the right to experience.

[1:13:07] Right.

[1:13:08] Because that's always my mindset about spoilers.

[1:13:10] It's like, am I taking away an experience that the person has a right to have?

[1:13:14] Right?

[1:13:15] Yeah.

[1:13:16] And with Life of Chuck, it's like, yeah, anyway.

Dan McCoy

[1:13:20] I still haven't seen it.

[1:13:22] Essentially, like, not that complex a story.

[1:13:25] But everything that makes it work, you know, you can't tell someone.

Linda Holmes

[1:13:32] It doesn't feel right to – yeah.

[1:13:33] It doesn't feel right to lay it out, you know, quite the way you would feel like you need to.

Stuart Wellington

[1:13:38] Yeah, I mean, I feel like there's got to be an answer.

[1:13:42] But for me, it's just like – I guess it's like all the movies that Christina shows at the Ridiculous Sublime screenings at the Nighthawk, where every time I'll read the description, I'm like, okay, well, I'm in.

[1:13:58] Sign me up.

[1:13:59] I'll see what kind of madness I'm in for.

Dan McCoy

[1:14:01] I trust our friend's taste when it comes to weird silliness.

Linda Holmes

[1:14:06] Right, right.

[1:14:07] And it can happen the other way around, too.

[1:14:10] There are times when I see something and then I think, I'm not going to really feel like I have had a complete experience until I hear other people try to explain this.

[1:14:19] That's how I felt.

[1:14:20] You guys did not do Wolfman, right?

[1:14:22] The Wolfman with Christopher Abbott?

Dan McCoy

[1:14:25] No.

[1:14:25] The Lee Wannell Wolfman?

Linda Holmes

[1:14:27] Christopher Abbott's in that?

Dan McCoy

[1:14:29] The one that was –

[1:14:30] Yeah, with Julia Garner.

[1:14:30] What's his face?

[1:14:31] Yeah.

[1:14:32] I had high hopes for that because I liked Invisible Man so much.

[1:14:35] And then –

Linda Holmes

[1:14:35] Exact same.

[1:14:37] And then it is not good.

[1:14:38] It is not good.

[1:14:39] Yeah.

[1:14:39] And the way that they transformed him into Wolfman is very strange.

[1:14:43] And I was – when I got out of that, I was like, I really want to read a bunch of reviews of, like, whether I am completely off about how weird I thought this was.

[1:14:51] Anyway.

[1:14:52] Good question, Ben.

[1:14:54] Ben.

[1:14:54] Last name withheld.

Dan McCoy

[1:14:57] The next letter is from Saoirse, last name withheld, who writes, recently, someone on Blue Sky brought up how strange it was that a Best Picture winner like Forrest Gump spawned a successful chain restaurant that was actually comparatively kind of fine.

[1:15:15] Peaches.

[1:15:15] I can't make any judgment calls on this.

[1:15:17] Yeah, I've never been.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:18] Me neither.

[1:15:18] Peaches.

[1:15:19] In a world where –

[1:15:20] More of a, what, Dick's Crab Shack or whatever kind of guy.

[1:15:24] Is that a –

[1:15:26] I don't remember.

[1:15:27] Is that a chain?

[1:15:28] Probably.

[1:15:29] Okay.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:30] I don't know that one.

[1:15:31] Peaches.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:32] Dan's more of a tilted kilt kind of guy.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:35] In a world where Oscar nominees had theme restaurants, what would be your go-to order?

[1:15:42] The Conclave Clam Linguini?

[1:15:44] The Happy Hour Mank Frank?

[1:15:47] The Zookeeper $3 Bucket of Oranges?

[1:15:49] Thanks for all the laughs.

[1:15:50] And the Boko Saoirse.

[1:15:53] Yeah.

[1:15:53] The Lidiotar Serfanturf.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:56] Serfanturf.

[1:15:58] Serfanturf.

[1:16:00] Dear Lord.

[1:16:02] That's great.

[1:16:02] The Conclave Clam Linguini is pretty good, but it has to come with a little vape on the side.

Linda Holmes

[1:16:15] Yeah.

[1:16:15] I think, you know, I mean, first of all, I just want to say, don't kid a kidder, Saoirse.

[1:16:18] You wanted to just – you just wanted to show us how many good ones you had come up with.

[1:16:22] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:16:22] I agree you did.

[1:16:24] I agree you did.

[1:16:25] I absolutely all hail you.

[1:16:28] Yeah.

[1:16:28] I think that it would probably be something like – I think I would have to work backwards from, like, what the movie is, that I would want to have, like, the theme restaurant of a particular movie.

[1:16:40] But the problem with that is that Best Picture nominees are often so grim.

[1:16:48] Yeah.

[1:16:48] Like, what do I want to do?

[1:16:49] Eat at, like, the Oppenheimer restaurant?

[1:16:51] It's not going to be Japanese food.

[1:16:53] That doesn't sound fun.

[1:16:55] We're eating at the Parasite restaurant?

[1:16:57] I don't – that doesn't sound good.

Stuart Wellington

[1:16:59] That's pretty awesome, actually.

[1:17:00] You have to eat under the table.

Linda Holmes

[1:17:02] How about –

[1:17:03] Maybe La La Land Lobster?

[1:17:06] Oh, yeah.

[1:17:07] You know, you'd have to pick, like, a relatively upbeat movie.

[1:17:09] Otherwise, you just end up in a really strange place very quickly.

Dan McCoy

[1:17:13] How about Sean Baker's An Orange Julius?

Stuart Wellington

[1:17:17] It's – it's a Russian restaurant or Ukrainian.

[1:17:21] Okay.

[1:17:22] That's true.

[1:17:23] That's true.

[1:17:24] It's basically just Tatiana's out in Brighton Beach, which is great.

[1:17:29] You should go.

[1:17:31] Yeah.

[1:17:32] You getting a kickback for that?

[1:17:33] I wish.

[1:17:35] I wish I could get a table because I see every time I go there, there's always, like, a bunch of, like, older guys.

[1:17:40] It's middle of the afternoon.

[1:17:42] It's summer.

[1:17:42] And there's always a couple older guys there smoking and drinking so much beer and vodka and, like, eating the, you know, the heaviest food.

[1:17:50] And I'm so jealous of how sweaty they are.

[1:17:52] It's the life.

Dan McCoy

[1:17:54] Let's do recommendations.

[1:17:56] There's always a lot of movies that we saw that maybe we can recommend with a fuller throat than –

Stuart Wellington

[1:18:01] I see Dan's finger hovering around Beneath the Valley of the Ultra Vixens, which I think you already recommended, right?

Dan McCoy

[1:18:06] No, I didn't even mention.

[1:18:08] I don't think – yeah, I saw that it was a 35-millimeter screening of what they claimed was the only extant copy of Beneath the Valley of the Ultra Vixens.

[1:18:21] That was at –

Stuart Wellington

[1:18:22] Streaming is just killing cinema.

[1:18:24] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:18:25] No, I was – in passing, because it will not require my support, I'd like to mention that the most recent Superman had a similar message of, like, hey, we can all make choices every day to be nicer.

[1:18:43] And it's a better movie overall than Red One.

[1:18:49] I will allow that, yeah.

[1:18:50] I enjoyed it very much, but I don't think it needs my voice thrown behind it.

[1:18:56] So I'll say I finally caught up with a movie that I kept seeing trailers for right before COVID.

[1:19:04] And I was like, oh, you know, I'll go see that.

[1:19:06] That looks fun.

[1:19:07] And I saw this trailer so many times and then COVID hit.

[1:19:11] I never caught back up with it until just recently.

[1:19:15] It's extraordinary.

[1:19:18] It's sort of a low-key, supernatural comedy starring Maeve Higgins.

[1:19:27] Yeah.

[1:19:27] And some –

[1:19:30] Will Forte plays the bad guy.

[1:19:31] Will Forte.

[1:19:31] Claudio Odorji, who's always great.

[1:19:34] Always so great.

[1:19:36] Bring back, what, Killing It?

[1:19:39] Yeah.

[1:19:40] It's almost, like, so gentle and low-key that, like, watching it not in the theater, watching it at home, like, some of it, you know, almost passed right through me like a ghost.

[1:19:51] But it's sweet and funny and creative.

[1:19:56] And it's nice to see, like, a little small supernatural comedy.

[1:20:00] So I would say go ahead and check it out.

[1:20:02] Stuart.

Stuart Wellington

[1:20:03] Yeah.

[1:20:04] The movie I'm going to recommend, I think, by the time this release certainly came and went from theaters.

[1:20:10] And it hit the exact spot that I think Linda was talking about when you were talking about seeing Red One.

[1:20:16] And that is Megan 2.0, which is a very silly, more of an action movie than the first one.

[1:20:25] The first movie is kind of a horror comedy, and this is more of an action comedy.

[1:20:29] But it also reminded me of 90s action thrillers like Species and shit like that.

[1:20:37] I think it's still very funny, and I think it's weird, and it gets some good performances.

[1:20:43] And the action sequences, I think, are actually pretty well done.

[1:20:46] And I do like that even though at this point Megan is almost entirely a digital character as opposed to, like, a practical one.

[1:20:56] I like that they still kept, like, the uncanny valley element where she still looks weird.

[1:21:03] Like, she still looks – there's something off about the way she looks.

[1:21:05] Like, they didn't try to make her look real.

Dan McCoy

[1:21:08] Yeah, I'm with you on – like, I feel like we're a small club of people who –

[1:21:13] likes the Megan sequel.

[1:21:16] I mean, what were people looking for in a Megan sequel?

[1:21:18] I think they wanted more of the same, and I liked that this swerved and was sillier and stranger.

[1:21:25] But, like –

Stuart Wellington

[1:21:26] But I feel like the tone is so similar that it's –

[1:21:29] Yeah.

[1:21:30] Yeah, maybe not to defend a movie, but, you know.

Linda Holmes

[1:21:34] No, of course not.

[1:21:35] One would never.

[1:21:38] I –

Stuart Wellington

[1:21:39] After what it did.

Linda Holmes

[1:21:42] After what it did.

[1:21:43] So, I – if you're looking for a recent movie, I would have gone with Drop with Megan Fahey where she's –

[1:21:51] It's a good one.

[1:21:52] In a restaurant.

[1:21:52] Enjoyed that one very much.

[1:21:54] But –

Stuart Wellington

[1:21:55] Still can't get over the fact that guy showed up for a date with a single mom.

[1:21:58] They've been talking for months.

[1:21:59] They go to a nice restaurant, and he is dressed like shit.

[1:22:02] He is dressed, however, like a Chris Evans-style dirtbag, but not as –

[1:22:06] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:22:06] Like a B-tier Josh Hartnett dirtbag.

Linda Holmes

[1:22:09] That's a – that is a really fun movie.

[1:22:11] I liked it a ton.

[1:22:13] Yeah.

[1:22:13] But then when I was preparing for a recent NPR conversation that I was part of, I watched a bunch of journalism movies.

[1:22:22] And so, I watched – you know, I rewatched All the President's Men and, you know, a bunch that I've seen before.

[1:22:29] I watched The Insider, so on and so on.

[1:22:32] And I really, really – I had never sat down and watched Shattered Glass all the way through.

[1:22:37] Oh, yeah.

[1:22:38] Which I thought was really good.

[1:22:39] And if you don't know this story, Stephen Glass was a writer at the New Republic and got caught essentially fabricating in whole or in part a whole bunch of magazine pieces that he had written.

[1:22:53] And I like a lot of things about this movie, one of which is this really tremendous cast that it has.

[1:22:59] And you go back and you're like, holy shit.

[1:23:01] This is – so many people are in this.

[1:23:03] It's like, you know, those two women who don't get to do a whole lot, but they're in it, like that's Chloe Sevigny and Melanie Linsky.

[1:23:10] Yeah.

[1:23:11] And Hank Azaria is his boss at one point.

[1:23:14] But the thing I love about this movie, the thing that I responded to the most was Peter Sarsgaard playing his editor who goes through the most amazing, oh shit, oh no, oh shit, transformation as he gradually figures out how bad this is.

[1:23:33] Because he comes in as the editor and mostly inherits this problem.

[1:23:37] And like you see it dawning on him like, this isn't great.

[1:23:43] Like this might not be great.

[1:23:45] Like, oh, this might be really bad.

[1:23:47] And he just in the face.

[1:23:49] He has been the best thing about so many things that I've seen him in.

[1:23:53] He was the only thing I liked about the TV version of Presumed Innocent, which was mostly – but he's really good in it.

[1:24:01] And he's so good in this that I just – I was really glad I watched it.

[1:24:05] It's one of those things where every once in a while NPR asks me to like prepare for something.

[1:24:09] And I go back and watch a bunch of catalog movies that there's no particular reason I've never watched them.

[1:24:14] I just haven't ever watched them.

[1:24:16] And this was a good opportunity to do that.

[1:24:19] So Shattered Glass, you can find it on streaming.

[1:24:21] I thought it was great.

[1:24:22] Really, really enjoyed it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:24:24] And it's a strong Hayden Christensen performance.

Linda Holmes

[1:24:26] It is a strong Hayden.

[1:24:27] I don't mean to leave out Anakin Skywalker.

Stuart Wellington

[1:24:29] It's funny because his name is Glass and Glass is made of sand.

[1:24:34] Oh, yeah.

[1:24:35] But he hates sand.

Dan McCoy

[1:24:36] Okay.

[1:24:37] It's a much better use of his vibe though than those Star Wars movies.

Linda Holmes

[1:24:42] Yeah, I think that's right.

[1:24:43] And I think –

[1:24:44] This and Little Italy.

[1:24:46] Well, and I think this is – are you saying you like this better than Awake?

[1:24:51] But I think this is a pretty good use of him as somebody who is a little bit of a cipher.

[1:24:58] Like I don't know that this movie ever really tries to explain to you why this guy is like this.

[1:25:03] Yeah.

[1:25:03] He just is.

[1:25:04] And does he feel bad?

[1:25:06] Like maybe a little.

[1:25:07] But mostly it's about the problem that this creates for all these other people.

[1:25:12] Yeah.

[1:25:12] And how hard he tries to keep from being found out.

[1:25:15] So anyway, I was really glad that I caught up with it.

Dan McCoy

[1:25:19] Yeah.

[1:25:19] That was a good one.

[1:25:21] Well, thank you so much, Linda, for being here and giving us an excuse to watch a movie that I did want to address on the podcast, but we kind of like missed the first time around.

Stuart Wellington

[1:25:32] Is this our chance to start doing some plugs?

Dan McCoy

[1:25:34] Because I have plugs.

[1:25:34] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:25:35] I was going to ask whether our guests had plugs, but maybe we'll let her in the plugs.

[1:25:40] Do you have a plug before that?

Stuart Wellington

[1:25:40] I do have a plug.

[1:25:41] Sorry, Linda.

[1:25:42] I'm jumping in the plug zone.

[1:25:43] Not at all.

[1:25:44] Jump the plug.

[1:25:44] Today I'd like to plug a – I've mentioned this before, but my wife,

[1:25:48] Charlene, is opening a studio gym in Brooklyn, New York called Jiggle Studio.

[1:25:54] It is a body positive workout space that is going to have a variety of different classes.

[1:26:00] Everything from traditional classes like step aerobics, some kickboxing, some Pilates, as well as like dance, as well as some like newer non-traditional classes like hangover recovery and things like that.

[1:26:19] We're very excited about it.

[1:26:20] We tried to do a Kickstarter a little under a year ago, and we didn't have much luck.

[1:26:25] And we had a variety of different struggles with the space, but we're finally going to be opening sometime in August or September.

[1:26:34] And if you would like to help support us and help push us over the finish line, we are running a couple of campaigns for tank tops and T-shirts.

[1:26:43] You can find it by going on the – following us on Instagram, which is jiggle underscore studio BK.

[1:26:52] And if you check the link in the bio, that will link you to the campaigns.

[1:26:56] But we're very excited.

[1:26:58] And if you're in Brooklyn, get ready to move your tuchus.

[1:27:01] Get ready to jiggle.

Linda Holmes

[1:27:02] Love it.

[1:27:03] Absolutely love it.

[1:27:06] I will just say first that it is a great time to support your local public radio and public television station.

[1:27:14] That's all I'm going to say about that.

[1:27:16] They could really, really use your help.

[1:27:19] That's where I have, you know, made a bunch of my career.

[1:27:24] But on a more cheerful note, my most recent book, which came out in February, is called Back After This.

[1:27:33] It is about podcasting in part.

[1:27:36] And I rolled up a lot of what I have learned from my long career in this kind of form.

[1:27:43] And it is like part rom-com and part like about influencers and part about podcasts and part about every terrible meeting I've ever been in.

[1:27:53] And then any media company.

[1:27:56] And so, again, it is called Back After This.

[1:27:59] You can find it anywhere that you buy books.

Stuart Wellington

[1:28:02] Co-sign.

[1:28:02] It's a fun read.

Linda Holmes

[1:28:03] Oh, thank you.

[1:28:04] And also, I read the audiobook.

[1:28:05] So, if that is your preference, you can hear me read it to you.

Dan McCoy

[1:28:11] And, well, thank you for being here.

[1:28:13] And while we're thanking people, I'd like to thank our network, Maximum Fun.

[1:28:16] If you go to MaximumFun.org, you can find a lot of other great podcasts.

[1:28:24] You know, we're Lister supported.

[1:28:26] So, we rely on people like you.

[1:28:29] And so, why don't check some of those other things out?

[1:28:33] And thank you to Alex Smith.

[1:28:36] He is our producer.

[1:28:37] He goes by the name Howell Doughty.

[1:28:40] He is also a talented musician.

[1:28:42] He does Twitch streams.

[1:28:44] Look him up on the internet.

[1:28:46] If you like us, I bet you'll like his stuff as well.

[1:28:50] But that's it for this episode.

[1:28:52] So, for the Flophouse, I've been Dan McCoy.

[1:28:55] I've been Stuart Wellington.

Linda Holmes

[1:28:56] And I've been Elliot Kalin.

[1:29:00] Bye.

[1:29:09] We're going to make it fun, Dan.

[1:29:12] It's going to make you, it's going to fix your day.

[1:29:13] We're going to fix your day, Dan.

[1:29:15] I hope so.

[1:29:16] Were you having a bad day?

Dan McCoy

[1:29:17] Did I show up late?

[1:29:18] No, no, no.

[1:29:19] You didn't do anything.

[1:29:20] I just woke up a little sad.

[1:29:23] Wrong side of the bed?

[1:29:26] The whole, everything.

[1:29:27] Everything is sad.

Linda Holmes

[1:29:28] You got to grasp onto your joy, Dan.

[1:29:30] It's very important.

Stuart Wellington

[1:29:31] Dan's just mad that they are not going to release the Epstein files.

[1:29:35] Yeah, aren't we all?

[1:29:38] I mean, he voted so that he would see what happened with the Epstein files.

[1:29:44] Right, right.

[1:29:44] Of course.

Dan McCoy

[1:29:45] I think it is absolutely kind of amazing that, like, maybe this is the thing that actually makes a dent.

[1:29:56] We'll see.

[1:29:56] It's the most traction anything's had.

[1:29:59] At long last, the thing that everyone could have assumed was true before.

[1:30:05] Anyway.

Linda Holmes

[1:30:06] It's not our problem for the next little while here.

[1:30:08] It's not our problem.

[1:30:09] Yeah, yeah.

[1:30:09] None of this is our problem.

[1:30:10] Our only problem is red one.

Stuart Wellington

[1:30:12] Mm-hmm.

[1:30:13] Mm-hmm.

[1:30:13] It's a red problem.

[1:30:14] Okay, here we go.

Dan McCoy

[1:30:21] Granta Gremlin committed suicide behind me.

[1:30:26] Maximum Fun.

[1:30:27] A worker-owned network.

[1:30:29] Of artists-owned shows.

[1:30:31] Supported.

[1:30:31] Directly.

[1:30:32] By you.

Ep.#457 – Red One, with Linda Holmes

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