Ep. #310 - Bloodshot

Dan McCoy

[0:00] On this episode we discuss bloodshot, a phrase that is never mentioned during the movie.

Stuart Wellington

[0:08] Is that true? I can't tell.

[0:09] No, they never say bloodshot.

[0:10] I don't think they ever call him bloodshot.

Griffin Newman

[0:11] I think they call him bloodshot.

[0:13] I think Guy Pearce says, you are bloodshot now, when he wakes up.

[0:17] He says, you are the bloodshot now, dog.

[0:30] Hey everyone, and welcome to the Flophouse. I'm Dan McCoy.

Elliott Kalan

[0:51] Hey, I'm Stuart Wellington.

[0:52] I'm Elliot Kalin, owner of a brand new hot water heater, because mine was leaking.

[0:57] How's everybody doing today?

Dan McCoy

[0:58] Save that juicy talk for after we introduce our guest.

[1:02] Not juicy, leaky.

[1:04] You know our guest from The Tick, where he played Arthur.

[1:08] You know him from the Blank Check podcast.

[1:10] You know him for being a tie for my girlfriend Audrey's second favorite podcaster,

[1:16] after Hallie Haglund, tied with Elliot Kalin for second favorite podcaster.

[1:21] I assume I'm in the top 25, at least.

[1:24] Don't make an assumption, Dan. You know what happens when you assume.

[1:27] It's Griffin Newman, everyone.

Griffin Newman

[1:29] Hello. Hi.

[1:30] If you can please add to my credits, Griffin Newman, world's number one bloodshot fan.

Stuart Wellington

[1:36] Yeah, you're a real vin addict.

Griffin Newman

[1:40] I'm a vin addict.

[1:41] I'm a big vino.

[1:43] But I also, I feel like truly, I may be the only person who has voluntarily watched this movie two times now.

Dan McCoy

[1:50] Yeah, Stuart said you were watching it, and I'm like, I follow him on Instagram.

[1:54] I'm pretty sure Griffin has already seen Bloodshot.

[1:58] I'm telling you, I got...

Stuart Wellington

[1:59] Wow, which only sounds a little creepy there, right?

Griffin Newman

[2:01] I got a lot of new stuff on the second viewing, and I am not joking at all.

[2:06] I am so happy I spent the extra hour and 50 giving it another run.

Elliott Kalan

[2:11] So, before we get into Bloodshot, because on this podcast we watch a bad movie and then we talk about it.

[2:16] Griffin, I want to know, what is it about the Dees?

[2:19] And I'm talking about, of course, Eddie Deeson, that really speaks to you, that you're such a big fan of him.

[2:24] What is it about Vin Diesel that you really relate to so much?

[2:26] Because you are a big Vin head.

Griffin Newman

[2:28] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2:29] I mean, you know, it's taken me a while to fully analyze what it is that, you know, attracts me to him so much.

[2:37] Because it's, you know, it's what is love?

[2:38] How do you define it, you know?

Elliott Kalan

[2:40] Well, let's try to kind of graph it out.

[2:44] Some kind of Vin diagram, if you will.

Griffin Newman

[2:45] This is what I will say.

[2:47] I think an ex-girlfriend of mine summed it up the best.

[2:51] Because any ex-girlfriend of mine essentially has to take an undergraduate course on Vin Diesel.

[2:56] Whether or not they want it.

[2:57] Not like as a prerequisite, but it comes with the territory of spending that much.

[3:00] As a post-requisite.

[3:01] Yes, it's a post-requisite once they've signed up to spend time with me.

[3:06] There's a heavily curated playlist of things that we have to watch.

[3:10] Some short form, some long form.

[3:12] But I was explaining my love of Vin Diesel and my love of Guns N' Roses, who are my favorite band of all time.

[3:21] And she said, I get it.

[3:23] I think I finally get it.

[3:25] You like things that are like a parody of masculinity.

Stuart Wellington

[3:30] Oh, okay.

[3:31] I can see that.

[3:32] There is definitely.

[3:33] I mean, I get the appeal to some extent, you know.

[3:35] You guys all know I'm pretty into D&D.

[3:38] And by that I mean Diesel and D's nuts jokes.

[3:46] That's my old joke, guys.

Dan McCoy

[3:48] That's good.

[3:49] I have to admit a certain amount of confusion about this.

[3:51] Because, like, I like Vin Diesel, but I'm not quite sure why.

[3:56] You're not in like with him.

[3:57] Because I feel like in his non-voice acting roles, he does not exude much in the way of personality.

[4:06] Oh, I disagree with you there.

Elliott Kalan

[4:08] Yeah.

[4:08] I want to hear your defense, Elliot.

[4:10] Oh, no, I think kind of a caricature or an exaggeration of masculinity makes sense.

[4:16] To me, Vin Diesel, even when he's playing a serious part, is always pretty, is always winking.

[4:21] Like Xander Cage?

[4:23] When he's playing a serious part, like Xander Cage or Pitch Black or Fast.

[4:28] Because he's in Fast and the Furious.

[4:29] Johnny Fast.

[4:29] His character is Johnny Fast.

[4:31] And then the late Paul Bettany.

[4:34] The late Paul Bettany.

[4:35] God forbid.

[4:36] Is, of course, Roger Furious.

[4:39] But it's that there's something about him that's always kind of like about to look at the audience and be like, can you believe I get to do this shit?

[4:46] And I really find that endearing about him.

[4:48] That he doesn't, of all the, if you compare it to someone like, ironically, Jason Statham, who is a much winkier performer, I get the feeling that he's like, no, no, no, I could do all these things.

[4:58] If you asked me to do them in real life, I could do them.

[5:01] Whereas Vin Diesel is like, this is all made up craziness.

[5:04] Like, let's just blow it out.

[5:05] Let's have fun with it.

[5:06] Griffin, is that how you feel?

Griffin Newman

[5:07] A hundred percent.

[5:08] You nailed that perfectly.

[5:09] And I think if you want to, like, establish, you know, three points on a masculinity scale, right?

[5:15] And it's cinematic masculinity, like our modern action star, right?

[5:19] And it's Statham, The Rock, and Vin Diesel.

[5:22] And I'm not ranking them in terms of quality, although Vin is obviously the top.

[5:26] But I'm saying, like, if you look on the spectrum here.

Elliott Kalan

[5:28] I mean, Statham is a pretender to that one.

[5:31] There's a lot of bald dads out there that are angry.

Griffin Newman

[5:34] I'm throwing this out.

[5:35] I'm throwing this out.

Dan McCoy

[5:35] I just don't.

[5:36] I feel like we're running down Statham a lot more than I'm comfortable with.

[5:39] Because I feel like.

Griffin Newman

[5:40] I love Statham.

[5:42] I love Statham.

[5:43] But I do think there's a distinction, which, as Elliot said, Statham is more openly winking to the audience.

[5:49] Right?

[5:50] Whereas Vin has a greater level of sincerity than Statham.

[5:54] Statham.

[5:54] But is also more self-aware than The Rock, who is so fully buying his own bullshit.

[6:00] You know?

[6:01] Yes.

[6:01] And Vin's like, right between the two.

[6:02] And Vin's like, right between the two.

[6:04] Statham, for me, though I love him, is a little bit too winky to be able to fully emotionally invest in him as a protagonist.

[6:13] The whole movie is always in quotes.

[6:15] And then The Rock is buying his own bullshit a little bit too much.

[6:19] And I think Vin is this perfect balance in terms of the, like, machismo baldies of the 2000s and on.

[6:27] Where he, like, means everything he says in, like, a John Wayne kind of way.

[6:32] Where it's like, it does not resemble normal human behavior.

[6:35] But it is imbued with as much emotional integrity as possible.

[6:39] But he is also so aware that he is himself, like, a special effect.

[6:44] Like, his voice.

[6:45] The fact that his name is goddamn Vin Diesel, which was by choice.

[6:49] Like, everything about it.

Elliott Kalan

[6:51] Yeah.

[6:51] Someone once told me that the name Vin Diesel, he came up with because when he was young, he spent time around, in the drag community, I guess.

[7:00] And there's something about him that is like.

[7:02] Drag racing, right?

[7:03] Drag racing.

[7:04] Yeah, yeah.

[7:05] No, but there's something in him that is kind of like a, I assume, I don't know anything about his personal life.

[7:11] I have always assumed he's straight, but I don't know.

[7:12] Like, a straight man who is like, I'm going to totally absorb into me that kind of, like, comment on masculinity that is part of drag, you know?

[7:24] And I'm going to make that part of my persona in a way that is both straightforward and both commenty.

[7:29] But he, it's weird that, like, when you talk about bald masculinity, the person I would compare Vin Diesel the most with, strangely enough, is Telly Savalas.

[7:36] Yes.

[7:37] It was, where I had a similar sense of, like, this guy means what he says, but he also knows that what he's saying is kind of crazy.

[7:43] And, like, but he's going all out with it, you know?

Griffin Newman

[7:46] Elliot, I hate to tell you this, but I might fuck you by the end of this episode.

[7:49] Oh, no.

[7:50] You're so turned on.

[7:52] Oh, man.

[7:52] You are taking things out of my mouth.

[7:54] Things I, A, have said about Vin to other people, and, B, things I have never even figured out how to verbalize before.

[8:00] Do you know, do you know that Kojak is one of Vin Diesel's favorite characters of all time?

[8:05] For the last five years, he's been trying to set up a Kojak movie.

[8:09] That's crazy that he hasn't been able to set up a Kojak movie.

[8:10] It is his dream job.

[8:12] He has it set up at Universal, where he makes the Fast and Furious movies, and presumably he should be able to make whatever the fuck he wants.

[8:18] And he has been announcing it for five years that he's doing a Kojak movie.

[8:22] As a tribute to his mother, who apparently he used to watch it with her all the time, and it was his favorite when he was a child.

[8:27] Oh, that's very sweet.

Elliott Kalan

[8:28] He would be a great Kojak.

[8:30] I wish that he was not, they'd have to find some way to make him not look like a superhero.

[8:34] Yeah.

[8:34] At least a little bit, maybe a mustache.

[8:36] But, like, he, but like.

Griffin Newman

[8:38] Well, if you've ever seen paparazzi photos of Vin on vacation in between movies, I will say, I think he has the capacity to look like not a superhero.

[8:48] And he is also, and I say this with all due respect, 52 years old.

[8:54] A fact that I like to circulate as much as possible is Vin Diesel and Paul Giamatti were born one month apart.

[9:02] So he puts a lot of effort into being as.

[9:05] Same doctor.

[9:06] Same doctor delivered the boat.

[9:06] Same hospital.

[9:07] Same room.

Elliott Kalan

[9:09] So you're saying that the modern version of Twins is Vin Diesel and Paul Giamatti playing the Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny DeVito roles.

Stuart Wellington

[9:16] This is like a Salman Rushdie magical realist novel.

[9:20] Yes.

Griffin Newman

[9:21] And I'm also saying with all due respect, because it is, it is a testament to his work ethic.

[9:27] But pretty much I'd say give him one lazy weekend and Vin Diesel can no longer look like a superhero.

Dan McCoy

[9:34] Stuart, this is very stupid, but I need to get this out.

[9:37] Please.

[9:38] Vin Knight's children.

Stuart Wellington

[9:40] Yeah.

[9:41] All right.

[9:41] That's it.

[9:41] Vin Knight's children.

[9:42] Yeah.

[9:43] I like it.

[9:43] Yeah.

[9:44] No, it's perfect.

[9:45] And to go back to comparing Vin Diesel and The Rock, one of the things that I feel like I prefer, one of the things that gives Vin the edge for me is I don't feel like at any point in the future, am I going to have to worry about having to vote for or against him in a political race?

[9:59] Yes.

[10:00] Yes.

Griffin Newman

[10:00] Yes.

[10:00] I feel like there is something to him for as much as he is like, was one of these guys who was tip of the spear on social media,

[10:08] is constantly posting like fan art of himself with like live, love, create, happy Friday and shit like that.

[10:16] Yeah.

[10:16] It feels like he has cultivated less of a cult of personality around him than someone like The Rock who is also selling us like his fucking workout equipment and his like tequila and is constantly towing that line of like, I don't know, do you want me to be president?

[10:33] And I also think, as you said, like The Rock wants to be, and I'm sorry that I'm going to go hard after The Rock here, but you have to if you're ever talking about Vin Diesel.

[10:42] If you really want to defend Vin Diesel's honor, you have to compare him to The Rock because The Rock is the one who most people accept as the best at what he's trying to do.

[10:52] Right.

[10:53] Which I reject because I think The Rock, A, is lesson on the joke and what we're talking about.

[10:59] I do think the key to Vin Diesel for me is, Elliot, as you said, that he kind of is giving a drag performance of an action star.

[11:06] You know, it is like, you know, he is doing to Arnold Schwarzenegger what like a drag queen is doing to Judy Garland in a certain way.

Elliott Kalan

[11:15] It feels like the only thing that makes the Triple X movies bearable is that Vin Diesel is like, whoa, this isn't real.

[11:22] Can you imagine this stuff?

[11:24] Like any moment with him, he is playing it.

[11:27] Like if to have and I don't mind knocking Jason Statham, I don't have the same affection for him.

[11:32] But like if Jason Statham was in Triple X Return of Xander Cage, the moment when that room full of women makes him have sex with them to get his coat back.

[11:40] And it's like the things I do for my country.

[11:42] Jason Statham would say that in this kind of leering like, yeah, I get to have sex with these women now.

[11:46] Whereas Vin Diesel was like, can you believe how silly this scene is?

Griffin Newman

[11:48] All right.

[11:49] And I also think you look at the first Triple X and the third Triple X and the third one is the one where it feels like he has claimed some level of authorship over the movie.

[11:59] And it is so much better and so much less toxic than the first one, which is Vin being self-aware in a movie that is kind of horrifying.

[12:09] Like the third one feels like it's totally on his level.

Dan McCoy

[12:12] We were all tired of our daddy's James Bond and it was time for not our daddy's James Bond.

[12:17] Like I was like, oh, how many times is my daddy's James Bond going to be inflicted on me?

Stuart Wellington

[12:22] And by the time the third Triple X came out, we were ready for not our daddy's Triple X.

[12:26] Yeah, right.

Elliott Kalan

[12:27] I just I remember that when the first Triple X came out and this is a this is a quote I had to I researched because I remembered it.

[12:33] I want to make sure I got it right.

[12:34] And I used it in a presentation when we talked about Triple X before a live audience where the producer or the producer, the director was like,

[12:40] we basically took the best parts of Dirty Dozen and Kelly's Heroes and smashed them together into one movie.

[12:46] And I was like, whoa, that's such a hubristic thing to say.

Griffin Newman

[12:50] Like that's such a crappy thing to say.

[12:52] But also, if that's what you thought you did, do you hate Kelly's Heroes and the Dirty Dozen?

[12:57] Yeah.

[12:59] No, I mean, like I have affection for the first Triple X, but then like only on VIN levels and for it being such a painful time capsule of the year 2003.

[13:09] But I think like Triple X 3, I was like, well, I've like, you know, I have to do my my duty as like a civilian and go see the new VIN movie in theaters.

[13:19] And then was surprised by how much I actually liked it.

[13:22] And to go back to the rock thing, it's like you go to Hobbs and Shaw where every character has to exist in a scene next to the rock to prove how masculine the rock is.

[13:33] And it doesn't feel like it's a joke, even though it is supposed to be a joke only in the sense that it makes the rock look funny so that, you know, he's funny on top of being kind and the toughest guy.

[13:45] But also something like that Vanessa Kirby has to be sexually attracted and to the rock in Hobbs and Shaw, despite being 20 years younger than him.

[13:57] And literally, he is not a human in that film.

[14:03] It is scientifically impossible that the two of them are together.

[14:08] Whereas in like Triple X State of the Union, or not State of the Union, I'm sorry, Return of Xander Cage, the third entry in the Triple X trilogy, the two quote unquote...

[14:16] The last of the X's.

[14:17] Yes.

Elliott Kalan

[14:18] There's Triple X.

[14:18] This is the final X, yeah.

Griffin Newman

[14:20] X, X, Triple X, Q.

[14:21] I mean, God willing, Elliot, who knows?

Elliott Kalan

[14:24] Maybe there'll be Triple X 3, one more X.

[14:27] X 9.

Griffin Newman

[14:29] But in that film, the two quote unquote hot girls are attracted to each other, which it just feels like is something that the rock would never do.

[14:38] Like have two hot women in a movie who are like, we don't want to fuck you, we're going to fuck each other.

[14:43] And it is not treated as a joke, and also there isn't a sex scene.

[14:47] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[14:48] All right, you turn me around.

[14:50] You all turn me around.

[14:50] Right?

Griffin Newman

[14:51] There's like a certain generosity to Vin Diesel.

Stuart Wellington

[14:54] Yeah.

[14:55] I mean, when we were watching Triple X 3, Return of Xander Cage, I got such a moment of genuine joy when Ice Cube showed up.

[15:05] Yes.

[15:05] And like the audience I was watching it with just screamed, even though none of them had seen the second movie.

Griffin Newman

[15:11] But isn't that like the entire power of what he pulled off with the Fast and Furious franchise is like Fast Five has the energy of this is the Avengers.

[15:22] We're finally uniting all of the greatest cinematic characters.

[15:25] And it's characters that you ostensibly did not care about before.

Elliott Kalan

[15:29] You're like, they got the guy from 3 and the guy from 2?

Griffin Newman

[15:32] Like, it's the same franchise, and he made it seem like somehow it was like a world-shattering crossover event.

[15:40] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[15:41] So, speaking of world-shattering crossover events, so, Bloodshot, the movie we're ostensibly supposed to be talking about today.

[15:48] Yes.

[15:48] Although this has turned into a podcast about Triple X Return of Xander Cage, which is fine.

[15:52] I've already done that one.

[15:53] Now, Bloodshot is the first entry in the Valiant cinematic universe.

[15:58] And I don't know how familiar you guys are with Valiant Comics, and if you wanted me to say anything about them or not.

Dan McCoy

[16:03] Oh, I mean, please talk about it.

[16:05] I mean, I'm only familiar with them in so much as I know that they were kind of a product of the 90s comics boom.

Stuart Wellington

[16:12] Yes.

[16:13] And I know that my friend Alejandro is currently writing Doctor Tomorrow, which is great, and being published by Valiant Comics.

Elliott Kalan

[16:19] I mean, the Valiant Comics of today is a very different publisher.

[16:22] Like, I've written stuff for Valiant Comics, like the current one.

[16:24] They actually have put out a number of good books now.

[16:27] But Valiant in the 90s was very much like Image had come out, Image Comics, and had toppled Marvel and DC from the number one spots for a little bit.

[16:35] And Valiant was a bunch of people who – very talented people who knew comics, who had long careers at Marvel and DC, and were like, we're going to create a new universe.

[16:43] And they just couldn't quite capture the magic.

[16:46] And eventually it was sold to Acclaim, the video game maker, and was Acclaim Comics.

[16:50] And now it's Valiant Comics again, and it's kind of new versions of those characters.

[16:53] But Bloodshot is kind of the punisher of the Valiant universe as opposed to XO Man of War's Iron Man or Solar Man of the Atoms Superman or Ninjax.

[17:05] Harbinger was like the X-Men, right?

[17:08] Harbinger was basically the X-Men.

[17:10] And if Bloodshot does well enough, they have plans for a Harbinger movie.

[17:14] And there's also like – but Valiant was this – there was Rai in the Future Force.

[17:18] Valiant was this world that like – they also had – they had some of the old gold key characters.

[17:22] So I think Magnus Robot Fighter and Solar were in there.

[17:24] Now, wait.

[17:25] Just let me pause you for just a second.

Dan McCoy

[17:27] You said that he was the Punisher of that universe.

[17:31] Did he use like guns and such a lot more in the comics?

[17:34] Because I watched this movie and I'm like, okay, he is nanotechnology Wolverine is what I thought.

Elliott Kalan

[17:40] Well, he always had that – the nanotech in his system, Bloodshot.

[17:43] But he basically used it in Punisher-type missions to shoot people.

[17:48] You know?

[17:48] Okay.

[17:48] It was like if Punisher and Wolverine were the same character, which might have been what they were thinking when they created him.

[17:53] Like people love the Punisher.

[17:54] They love Wolverine.

[17:55] What if they were one character?

[17:56] And you know what?

[17:57] Slap a chromium on that cover.

[17:59] Give that a chromium cover so it's real shiny.

[18:01] Then we can charge $2.95 on the – not diecast.

[18:04] If you're thinking of diecast chromium, I think that was the Turok Dinosaur Hunter number one cover.

[18:09] But it was – but I see what – and die cut I think is what you meant.

[18:12] Diecast would be like – you'd be making like matchbox cars.

[18:15] But someone write in and correct me.

[18:16] I might be wrong.

[18:17] I don't know that much about production techniques for these things.

[18:19] Okay.

[18:19] Sorry.

Dan McCoy

[18:20] You had gotten up to gold key before I interrupted you.

Elliott Kalan

[18:22] No, no.

[18:23] But anyway, so Valiant was one of these companies that was never – was kind of the number four company for a while just because there was room for a number four company.

[18:32] There was no one – you know, after DC, Marvel, and Image.

[18:35] But they were never quite as big and have been through ups and downs.

[18:39] And now they put out a lot of great books.

Stuart Wellington

[18:41] Yeah, I mean it was back in the day when the only other option was reading what the self-published ElfQuest comics.

Elliott Kalan

[18:47] I mean that's a great option or Bone from Jeff Smith's cartoon books.

[18:51] The – but it's like a – it's a weird universe to use to try to make a film universe out of it.

[18:58] And when they announced this, it does feel a little bit like, oh, okay, this is the film universe that you could get because Marvel and DC were taken.

[19:05] An image does not exist as one.

[19:06] It's all creator-owned by their individual creators.

[19:09] And you're not going to go get a Malibu Press universe together because Marvel bought and buried all those characters.

[19:16] So –

Dan McCoy

[19:17] Well, also I will say watching this movie, it was about halfway through that I'm like, oh, yeah, I think this is based on a Valiant comic.

[19:24] Because it doesn't necessarily feel like a superhero story so much as just, you know, like a throwback sci-fi action movie.

[19:31] Totally.

Elliott Kalan

[19:32] Yeah.

[19:32] I mean this same movie, I could see watching it on HBO as a teenager like in the middle of a Saturday.

[19:39] And I'd be like, yeah, okay, this makes sense.

[19:41] I'm neither – I'm neither surprised nor am I disappointed.

Griffin Newman

[19:44] I was – I was – my sort of closest VIN cohort in terms of the guy I constantly check in with for VIN updates.

[19:53] One of a couple people I check in with after there have been VIN updates in the world is John Gabrus of the High and Mighty and Action Boys podcast.

[20:03] And I was like – after I watched it for the first time telling him like my takes on it, I was like it feels like Schwarzenegger in Eraser Zone.

[20:14] Like it feels like it is pulled off of the timeline from 1997.

[20:19] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[20:20] If I can offer a quick –

[20:21] I feel like Guy Pearce is a slightly more intimidating villain than James Caan.

Elliott Kalan

[20:26] Maybe.

[20:28] I mean this movie, rather than fitting into like a valiant cinematic universe, it kind of fits into a don't trust Guy Pearce as the head of a technology company.

[20:37] Yes.

[20:37] Mm-hmm.

[20:38] I was like how many movies am I going to see where Guy Pearce is like an evil scientist businessman?

Dan McCoy

[20:43] Audrey was like has he ever just paid a straight up like good guy?

[20:46] I'm like well, I mean like confidential but he was kind of a dick.

[20:52] Time machine.

[20:53] Lockout but he was also kind of a dick.

[20:55] I'm not sure.

Griffin Newman

[20:57] If I can offer a quick addendum to your valiant breakdown, Elliot.

[21:03] This movie was announced as Sony gets the valiant comics rights for movie universe planned.

[21:10] And what they announced was it will be like Harbinger, Bloodshot, then I think Harbinger 2, and then they were going to do a crossover.

[21:18] That's what I think was sort of thrown out.

[21:22] And then when Vin got attached, Bloodshot became the first thing and they were like we will use this to launch everything else.

[21:29] And to your point, like the weirdness of trying to launch a Bloodshot cinematic universe, a thing I experienced from working on the tick is very often these large companies that buy the rights to obscure creator-owned comic book companies and properties don't understand that everything isn't as popular as the Avengers.

[21:49] There's this assumption where they're like, well, they like comic books, right?

[21:54] So every character has as big of a built-in fan base.

[21:58] But that was announced, Bloodshot was announced as the first step of this thing.

Elliott Kalan

[22:02] So you're saying when they put out the American Splendor book, they were like, this is just chapter one.

[22:06] A hundred percent.

[22:07] Of the American Splendor cinematic universe.

[22:09] It's comics, right?

[22:09] Then we'll do Mr. Natural.

[22:10] Right.

[22:11] Then Harvey P. Karn, Mr. Natural crossover in the sequels.

[22:14] We're doing a P. Karn verse.

Dan McCoy

[22:16] I'm like a comics fan who was alive through that period.

[22:20] And if you ask me for a valiant comics character, after Turok, I would tap out.

Stuart Wellington

[22:27] Really?

[22:27] Dad's dying for the Crazy Cat movie.

Elliott Kalan

[22:31] Well, I'm amazed that there is not already a movie out there that's like the Sunday comics cinematic universe, but it's all the public domain ones.

[22:39] So it's like Crazy Cat, Cats and Jammer Kids, like the Yellow Kid, I guess.

Griffin Newman

[22:44] There's an incomprehensible looking new CGI Scooby-Doo movie, which is that with Hanna-Barbera, where it's a new CGI Scooby-Doo movie that has also simultaneously six other Hanna-Barbera properties.

Elliott Kalan

[22:57] Well, I mean, but Hanna-Barbera's been doing that for decades.

[23:00] Oh, totally.

[23:00] Because they had Laugh Olympics and they had Lucky Racers.

[23:02] But, oh, actually, the weirdest one is that Tom and Jerry movie that's also a Willy Wonka movie.

Griffin Newman

[23:07] Yes.

[23:08] Right.

[23:08] Well, there's that series of like, the other ones are like public domain because there's Tom and Jerry Sherlock Holmes.

[23:14] Tom and Jerry Wizard of Oz.

[23:16] And then Wonka is so specifically Gene Wilder Wonka with all the same designs and characters.

[23:22] But this is, I don't mean to drop a big bombshell here, but I was doing my research before we record it.

[23:28] And it turns out as seemingly the move of like dumping things overboard right before the ship hits an iceberg.

[23:36] Sony, like five months ago, sold off all the remaining Valiant rights before this came out.

[23:44] And so they were like, yeah, no, Paramount, you can make Harbinger.

[23:46] That's fine.

[23:47] So it seems like if any other Valiant movies get made, they will not be connected to this in any way, even though that was the explicit design of this movie.

Elliott Kalan

[23:55] I mean, I'm going to tell you, I don't think Harbinger is going to get made because even as a kid, when that came out, I was like, what kind of a name for a comic is Harbinger?

[24:02] Like, it's such a weird word to like make your, to name a thing.

[24:07] Like, I don't, it doesn't make sense to me.

[24:09] So only.

Stuart Wellington

[24:10] I certainly had trouble pronouncing it as a kid.

Griffin Newman

[24:12] Yeah.

[24:12] Only Christopher Nolan could get away with a blockbuster called Harbinger.

[24:16] He's the only guy who can just put Harbinger on a title and people go like, that sounds smart.

[24:20] Like, that actually.

[24:21] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[24:22] I bet this is a movie about ideas.

[24:25] Yeah.

[24:25] Speaking about a movie that's not about ideas, Bloodshot.

Stuart Wellington

[24:28] Stuart, do you want to tell us what happens in this movie?

[24:30] Yeah, let me.

[24:30] So we're about 30 minutes into the podcast.

[24:32] Let's start talking about the movie.

[24:34] To be fair.

[24:36] To be fair, we've been on point.

[24:37] Let me look at my seven pages of notes.

Elliott Kalan

[24:42] Wow.

[24:42] Somehow, somehow this is both the most time we've taken before talking about the movie and the most on topic we've ever been.

[24:48] So Griffin, I appreciate you being here for that.

Stuart Wellington

[24:50] Okay, Bloodshot.

[24:52] We, the movie opens in Mombasa.

[24:55] We're introduced to Vin Diesel playing a character we know as Bravo Six.

[25:00] Later find out his name is Ray Garrison.

[25:02] He's talking to his buddy Marines over his headpiece.

[25:05] They're doing a lot of sit reps.

[25:06] He disobeys a direct order and he breaches the, what, the terrorist cell by himself and kills a bunch of terrorists and saves the hostage.

Elliott Kalan

[25:17] There's a house full of hostages and terrorists and he just walks right in.

Griffin Newman

[25:21] My note I wrote here is Vin Diesel, casually 52-year-old soldier.

[25:27] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[25:29] Yeah, there's like, it's similar to any time when Tom Cruise plays a soldier and you're like, uh, he's not a frontline soldier anymore, right?

[25:38] Right, this guy's like a grunt?

Elliott Kalan

[25:41] I mean, maybe he was, I wouldn't be, maybe, if this was, if this was a different time, if this was 10 years ago.

[25:46] Yeah, like the Civil War?

[25:47] Well, no, but if this was like 10 years ago, you could say that he was like, uh, he was called back in.

[25:51] They were doing that a lot with people in the National Guard or people that had their hitch and they were being brought in for a new, like, but I guess in the Navy they called it a hitch.

[25:57] They should have had like a tour, I should say.

Dan McCoy

[26:00] Like, uh, aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper scene?

[26:03] He's like, aren't you a little old for a soldier?

Elliott Kalan

[26:06] Right.

[26:06] And then, like, explains it.

[26:08] But he's so good at what he does.

[26:09] I mean, the real question is, at 52, he really should have been promoted much higher up the ranks.

[26:13] I was gonna say, this guy hasn't put in for a desk job yet.

Griffin Newman

[26:16] There are ways to stay in the military.

[26:19] And I do think, I think you're right, there was a 10-year grace period where you could take any over a certain hill action star and say, look, after 9-11, they wanted to go back into the battlefield.

[26:31] Yes, everyone's getting called back in.

[26:31] Right.

Elliott Kalan

[26:32] He's fighting in Mombasa.

[26:33] So this is a, this is like one of these operations that the public doesn't even learn too much about.

[26:38] And like where we're assisting local forces.

[26:41] So it's not like he is fighting the Taliban.

[26:43] And it makes me wonder, I don't know what Mombasa looks like, but where they were looked so generic to me that I want, it kind of felt like they were like,

[26:49] they, it was just supposed to be anywhere.

[26:51] And they just kind of named it later, you know?

Griffin Newman

[26:53] I don't know.

[26:53] This movie was shot entirely in Cape Town, South Africa.

[26:58] I think partially because the director was there and I assume they were able to get some sort of government grant or tax rebate.

[27:04] But also because it feels like a place that looks like eight different places.

[27:07] So they could just shoot different areas and later decide which chyrons they would put over.

[27:12] Identifying like, no, this is Australia.

[27:15] This is Madrid.

[27:18] Like everything is like, uh, Mombasa.

Stuart Wellington

[27:21] This is Italy, but a different part than the other part of Italy we were in before.

Elliott Kalan

[27:25] That also explains why the first time he sees the skyline where his, like, Guy Pearce's building is, I was like, I don't know what city this is supposed to be.

[27:34] Like, I don't recognize this skyline at all.

[27:36] And I don't know the Cape Town skyline.

Griffin Newman

[27:37] I feel pretty certain they did not pick the specific cities until 10 months after production wrapped.

Elliott Kalan

[27:45] They're like, the movie is supposed to be released tomorrow.

[27:47] Can we name where it's taking place?

[27:48] You throw some chyrons up.

[27:49] They're in Budapest now.

[27:51] Oh, okay.

Stuart Wellington

[27:53] So, uh, despite having a, uh, an opening similar to the Marine starring John Cena.

[27:58] Wait, is it John Cena?

[27:59] I don't remember.

[28:00] Um, who's in the Marine?

[28:02] Yes, you got it.

[28:03] Oh, perfect.

[28:04] Nailed it in one.

[28:05] Um, so he, he, there's no repercussions.

[28:08] He and his buddies go back and by buddies, I mean other Marines.

[28:11] Uh, they talk about why the reason they do this is because of Vin Diesel's wife, uh, who

[28:16] he meets.

[28:17] Yeah, that's why you, that's why we fight boys.

[28:20] And I'm like, wait, are they all married to her?

Elliott Kalan

[28:23] Yeah, it's just like the end of Horse Feathers, Dan.

[28:25] They all married her in the same ceremony.

Griffin Newman

[28:26] At the very least, they all covet her.

[28:28] And I mean, yeah.

[28:29] I mean, yeah.

[28:30] They've been on a vow of celibacy for 20 years waiting for their chance.

Stuart Wellington

[28:34] They call him Boss, which I was like, Boss, I thought somebody else was giving him the

[28:38] orders, but don't worry about that.

[28:40] Uh, so they go for a walk along a pier and then they have a candlelight love scene and

[28:43] they talk about his scars.

Griffin Newman

[28:45] It's just like, it's like a very simple post-special ops mission vacation.

Stuart Wellington

[28:50] Yeah, he's going on his-

Elliott Kalan

[28:52] Yeah, on the Amalfi Coast.

[28:52] He's going on his covert moon.

[28:54] That's, uh, the little trip with his wife after each covert mission where he just, you

[28:58] know, gets to forget about his troubles.

[29:00] They just go to the Italian coast.

[29:01] They loll around in bed in their underpants because like all married couples in PG-13

[29:06] movies, they wear their underpants when they're in bed together.

[29:09] And then they, and what else do they do?

[29:11] They just kind of hang around.

[29:12] They go to a fish market and they're just laughing, loving, life-ing.

Dan McCoy

[29:15] I mean, they're not, they don't have the underwear on the whole time.

[29:18] There's a, like a PG-13 sex scene that happens and they-

[29:21] There's some side boob.

[29:22] Yeah.

[29:23] Yeah.

[29:23] I don't know whether this is actually the way it was shot in the movie or how I just

[29:28] remember it in the movie.

[29:29] But I remember them having sex in like one of those movie rooms that's like filled with

[29:33] a lot of tool just sort of hanging from the ceiling.

[29:36] Like, diphonious, like fabrics just sort of like thrown around.

Elliott Kalan

[29:40] Oh, tool like, like the fabric.

[29:42] Yeah, yeah.

[29:42] I thought you meant tools like, you know, warehouse or whatever.

[29:45] The bang.

[29:45] Yeah, like hanging.

Stuart Wellington

[29:47] Yeah, like the Cenobites are going to show up.

[29:49] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[29:49] Like he keeps hitting his head on the chains that are hanging above them.

[29:53] Yeah, yeah.

Griffin Newman

[29:53] I don't know if you guys know this too, but the actress who plays his wife is Tallulah Riley,

[29:59] who is also on Westworld, but was married two separate times to Elon Musk.

[30:06] And I find that fascinating because she seems to only appear in projects that feel like they

[30:11] could have been written by Elon Musk.

Elliott Kalan

[30:17] That's great.

[30:18] She is drawn to a certain type.

[30:20] Yeah.

[30:20] And Dan, you're remembering it right.

[30:22] They're basically having sex in like the video from I Will Do Anything For Love.

Dan McCoy

[30:27] Like a pit house centerfold or something.

[30:29] Yeah.

[30:30] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[30:31] But Stuart, what happens?

[30:33] It sounds like the movie's over.

[30:34] Everyone's having a great time.

[30:35] They love it.

[30:36] Okay, so mission accomplished.

Stuart Wellington

[30:38] Unfortunately, the next morning, a team of two guys attack Bravo Six, a.k.a. Ray Garrison,

[30:45] a.k.a. Vin Diesel.

[30:46] He beats the shit out of them, and then as he's leaving, he bumps into a guy, and then

[30:51] he falls asleep, and you're like, I guess he got drugged.

[30:54] Smash cut.

[30:54] He wakes up tied with like hempen rope to a chair in a meat locker filled with meat.

[31:01] The guy who knocked him out shows up and then dances to Dan's favorite song.

[31:06] At this point, I'm sure Dan was pretty into the movie, Talking Heads, Psycho Killer.

Elliott Kalan

[31:11] I had the same thought when Psycho Killer started.

[31:12] I was like, oh, they're pandering to Dan right now.

Dan McCoy

[31:16] You're also a big Talking Heads fan.

Elliott Kalan

[31:19] I am.

[31:19] But I just, when I think Talking Heads, I think Dan.

[31:22] Okay.

Griffin Newman

[31:23] This was the moment where I fully fell in love with the movie.

[31:26] I mean, I was like, I was pretty in just from the name above the title.

[31:31] But the second we got to the second best ever use of Psycho Killer in a film, I knew I was

[31:39] in love.

Elliott Kalan

[31:40] Now, the first one, I assume, would be in my college screenplay, Psycho Killer.

[31:44] Correct.

[31:45] And then Stop Making Sense is third.

[31:47] Okay.

[31:47] Yeah.

[31:47] Stop Making Sense is number third.

[31:49] Yeah.

[31:50] So what was your Psycho Killer screenplay about?

[31:53] This is a screenplay I wrote in one of my screenwriting classes at NYU.

[31:55] And it was about, there's a serial killer who is stalking New York.

[32:00] And a big time director who's had a couple bombs under his belt has decided he's going to go

[32:06] back to his indie roots and he's going to make a movie about this serial killer on the real

[32:10] locations that the serial killer is killing people.

[32:12] And the serial killer gets really interested in this movie because he's like, oh, this is

[32:15] how I'm going to like, this is how people are going to remember me.

[32:18] And basically is stalking this director and like killing people around him to get him

[32:22] to do the things he wants in the movie.

[32:23] And anyway, it's like, it was written by me at a time when I really didn't know how movies

[32:27] were made.

[32:28] So there's a lot of stuff where I'm like using terminology that, where I'm like, if I look

[32:31] back at it now, I'm sure you'll be like, that's not how that works.

[32:33] That's not a thing you can do.

Stuart Wellington

[32:34] That's not what craft services is.

[32:39] Weird that you put those into the screen directions.

Elliott Kalan

[32:43] There's a lot of like smash cut rack focus to ultra close up, that kind of stuff.

Griffin Newman

[32:49] It's weird that you put in screen directions for what was going to be on the craft services

[32:53] table.

Elliott Kalan

[32:54] I got, look, I was really building a world.

Stuart Wellington

[32:58] Okay.

[32:59] So we, we have forgotten about our pal Vin.

[33:01] Vin is tied once again with a hemp and rope to an office chair.

[33:06] Thank you for specifying the kind of rope.

[33:08] I appreciate it.

[33:08] I just think it's kind of funny because up until this point, you're like, I bet this like,

[33:11] they would use like high tech handcuffs, but no.

[33:14] So you think they're just going to be intimidating Vin Diesel, but nope, they bring his wife in.

[33:20] Oh man, they just crossed the fucking line.

[33:23] The guy then uses one of those pneumatic, pneumatic bolt pistol things and asks Vin some

[33:31] questions that of course he doesn't know because they're above his pay grade.

[33:34] And then he kills his wife anyway.

[33:36] And then he shoots him in the face.

[33:37] Yeah.

[33:38] End of the movie, right?

[33:39] Now, no, hold on.

Dan McCoy

[33:40] Now I want to say, now, uh, I'm not going to spoil the twist of the movie at this point,

[33:46] even though the trailer does it.

[33:48] Uh, we will spoil the twist, you know, in another 20 minutes or probably an hour.

[33:53] The way we're taking our time.

[33:55] The way we're talking, it'll be tomorrow.

[33:56] Yeah.

[33:57] But, you know, Audrey was watching this with me.

[33:59] She's much more, uh, vocal when we watch movies at home than, than I normally would be.

[34:04] But like, she's like, you know, like chatting about the movie and she's like, like at this

[34:09] point, she is not angry.

[34:11] Let's say, but pointing out that this woman is like the laziest version of a wife in one of

[34:17] these situations where she's just waiting around at home to like leap on him and have sex in

[34:22] this, uh, drapery factory afterwards.

[34:25] And then like, she's immediately.

[34:26] Who do you think lit all those candles?

Stuart Wellington

[34:28] Uh, drapery showroom, Dan.

Dan McCoy

[34:29] Yeah.

[34:30] And then she is immediately fridged to give him a motivation.

[34:34] And there is a reason why this is also like lazy that will, will come up later in the movie.

[34:41] But at this point you're like, okay, well, I've seen this movie a million times before.

Griffin Newman

[34:45] 100%.

[34:45] Watching this for the first time without, without getting to the spoilers yet, watching for the

[34:49] first time, I was accepting the sloppiness and the shortcuts and areas like that as like,

[34:55] I guess this is what I fucking have to tolerate to get a Vin Diesel bloodshot movie.

[34:59] Like as long as they get to the, you know, the good stuff, I'm fine.

[35:03] If like the setup is, is sloppy watching it the second time, I am actually kind of astonished

[35:10] by the artistry of how transparently clockwork all of that stuff is.

[35:17] Yeah.

[35:18] I also want to bring up the rope.

[35:19] Yes.

[35:20] I also all, every single detail for me feels so perfectly chosen.

[35:24] Once you understand what the twist of this movie is, I also just want to point out the

[35:29] way you know that this is a film made by a director who understands Vin Diesel as a star.

[35:33] Cause I stopped watched it.

[35:35] I believe it is four minutes and 52 seconds in once they've landed the plane at the base

[35:41] and Vin turns to all his grunts and says like, that's who we're doing it for.

[35:45] He wastes no time to immediately take off his uniform and reveal the wife beater underneath,

[35:51] which is for Vin Diesel pulling off an outer layer revealing a wife beater is like Captain

[35:56] America picking up his shield.

[35:58] It is the moment, you know, you are cooking with gas.

Elliott Kalan

[36:02] Well, you know, Vin Diesel, he's had a lot of foes on film, but his greatest enemy is sleeves.

Griffin Newman

[36:10] Famously overheated arms, Vin Diesel.

[36:13] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[36:14] And I'm glad that he's never, he has yet to come across a necktie or a bow tie.

[36:18] Cause I feel like that is a battle he cannot win.

Elliott Kalan

[36:21] No.

[36:22] Yes.

[36:22] I mean, so just to, to jump in, it was originally reported that Jared Leto was going to star in

[36:28] this film as bloodshot.

[36:29] How different up to this point do you think this movie would be if it was Jared Leto instead

[36:33] of Vin Diesel?

Griffin Newman

[36:35] Uh, well, I'll tell you a big difference.

[36:37] I would not have seen it.

[36:38] Uh, that's an immediate difference.

[36:40] I would have no opinions on it other than my absolute revulsion at the very premise.

[36:46] Um, I also think, I think like the thing we're sort of talking around here is that like

[36:51] the movie doesn't work unless you a, have someone who is an action star is proven in this genre

[36:58] because of what this movie is ultimately doing narratively.

[37:01] And B is someone who is so self-aware about how their action persona plays.

[37:06] If you cast it against type and pick a guy like Jared Leto and go like, it's Morbius.

[37:11] The thing is, we've never seen a hero who looks like this before.

[37:14] Then the whole thing is fucking nonsense.

[37:16] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[37:18] Yeah.

[37:18] Well, so, so we get our opening credit sequence.

[37:21] Uh, we can only assume that Vin Diesel is dead.

[37:23] And then of course, nope.

[37:25] He wakes up.

[37:26] He's in a secret lab.

[37:28] Uh, he's in a secret lab and he is introduced to, uh, KT, a young cyborg woman.

[37:35] And, uh, who is this?

[37:37] Uh, Dr. Emile Harding, who is played by space jail himself, Guy Pearce.

Dan McCoy

[37:44] Now, Guy Pearce, his casting is a clue to the twist of the movie.

[37:50] Can you figure it out?

Elliott Kalan

[37:52] Can you guess it?

[37:53] He is one of those actors, and I love him as an actor.

[37:55] He's so good in Memento.

[37:56] He's so good in, uh, the Proposition, the Western that he's in.

[38:00] Yeah.

[38:00] But, but, but like, he's like Max von Sydow at this point, where the minute he shows up,

[38:05] you're like, oh, the bad guy.

Stuart Wellington

[38:07] But at the same time, like, he brings, I think he brings something extra to it that like,

[38:12] yeah, you might, it might spoil the twist, but at least it's going to be fun the whole time.

Elliott Kalan

[38:16] Oh, no.

[38:16] Yeah.

[38:17] He's, he's, he does this stuff great.

[38:19] I like it.

[38:19] It's, it's in his sleep he can do this stuff.

[38:21] But it's, at this point, it's like, I want to see him do something where I don't automatically

[38:24] know the minute, literally the minute I see his name in the credits.

[38:28] Well, it's like, it's like in, um, uh.

[38:31] Geostorm?

[38:32] Geostorm, yeah, when Ed Harris shows up and you're like, oh, the villain.

[38:35] I love that I knew exactly where you were going, Elliot.

[38:38] Yeah, that was, that was pretty amazing.

[38:40] It's like we were talking with our nanobots, yeah.

Griffin Newman

[38:42] To this point, I think like, if you see Ed Harris's name in the opening credits of a film

[38:47] like Geostorm, you go, oh, he's the villain and he's going to sort of be phoning it in.

[38:51] Like this, I'm not going to get full Ed Harris here.

[38:54] He's not going to leave it all on the dance floor for fucking Geostorm.

[38:56] This is not Pollock.

[38:57] He's not going to do that.

[38:58] This is not milk money.

[38:58] Right, right.

[39:00] But whereas, like, if you see Guy Pearce in the opening credits, you're like, well, they've,

[39:04] they've already spoiled for me that he's the villain, but I know he's going to have fun with it.

[39:08] Like this guy is actually going to try to entertain himself playing this.

[39:12] Stuart, just quickly, because I feel like you glossed over this.

[39:16] You said that KT is a cyborg.

[39:17] Now, I assume the parts of her body that have been augmented are something really cool that

[39:22] would help her fight.

[39:23] Like big robot arms or laser eyes.

Stuart Wellington

[39:26] Or maybe she has rocket feet.

[39:27] She's got like guns.

[39:29] Well, we later find out that KT was a Navy swimmer.

[39:33] Uh-huh.

[39:33] Okay.

[39:33] And she-

[39:34] Robot legs can swim really fast.

Griffin Newman

[39:36] Tell me, does she got a motor, a fan?

[39:37] What does she got?

Stuart Wellington

[39:39] So she was horribly injured.

[39:40] And the only thing they could do was replace her, what?

[39:44] She couldn't breathe.

[39:45] So they put in like a robot breathing tube in her neck or chest.

[39:49] But that's great because that means that she, what, can like filter out like poisonous gas?

[39:57] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[39:57] She can breathe through anything.

[40:00] Water, gas.

[40:02] She's like a human Brita filter.

[40:03] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[40:04] Now, I want to say that she is played by Isa Gonzalez, who has been in, you know, some

[40:11] fun movies like Hobbs and Shaw and Baby Driver.

[40:14] But she's also, this is her fourth Flophouse movie.

[40:17] She was in Jim and the Holograms.

[40:19] Wow.

[40:20] She was in Welcome to Marwen.

[40:21] And she was in Elisa Battle Angel.

[40:23] They get to be released.

[40:24] Which I don't believe we've released yet.

[40:26] Yeah, but we watched it.

[40:26] Yeah, but we did do it.

Elliott Kalan

[40:27] That's the movie where, and spoiler alert for that one, where we talk about Dan's love

[40:30] of backstory and elaborate world building histories.

Dan McCoy

[40:33] I do not have that love.

[40:36] That's something that's been placed on me because I asked for one line of explanation

[40:40] for a key plot point.

[40:42] But anyway.

[40:42] I don't know if I call it a key plot point.

Stuart Wellington

[40:43] I don't want to spoil the rest of the movie, but for a character with, let's just say,

[40:48] a limited power suite.

[40:50] Yes.

[40:50] They find many opportunities to use her powers for her benefit.

Elliott Kalan

[40:55] I mean, that's imagination.

[40:56] That's what Jack Kirby would do.

[40:57] He'd say, okay, the Hulk is super strong.

[41:00] Okay, I could have him just punch and lift things.

[41:02] But what if he slapped his hands together and create a shock wave?

[41:04] What if he jumped so far that he could basically fly?

[41:07] Like, what if he could blow with his enormous lungs and knock people over?

[41:10] You got to find different ways to use those powers.

Stuart Wellington

[41:12] What if he went undercover as a robot clown working at the circus?

[41:16] Okay, he wasn't necessarily undercover.

Elliott Kalan

[41:18] He was hypnotized and they disguised him as a robot clown working at the circus.

[41:23] It wasn't like he did that as a plan.

[41:24] He just found himself in that situation.

Dan McCoy

[41:26] Now, that is a reference I can enjoy without actually knowing what it's referencing.

[41:32] Okay, well, it's a major part of Marvel history.

[41:36] Imagining the Hulk is a robot clown delights and amuses no matter what your experience.

Elliott Kalan

[41:42] For a very brief time, he was hypnotized into thinking he was a robot clown in the Ringmaster of Crime circus.

[41:47] Great, I love it.

Stuart Wellington

[41:49] So, at this point, Dr. Harding explains that Bloodshot has been killed.

[41:55] He's been killed in action.

[41:56] And they brought him back.

[41:58] That his body had been anonymously donated by the military and nobody had picked up his body.

[42:04] He had no loved ones.

[42:04] They just left him in the Dropbox that side.

[42:07] Yep.

[42:07] They just dropped him through a Dropbox.

[42:09] They said, please replace blood with nanites, which is what they did.

[42:14] Nanites are nanobots that will heal any damage that is caused to his body.

Dan McCoy

[42:18] What's that?

[42:18] And it's called Project Bloodshot.

Stuart Wellington

[42:21] Project Bloodshot.

[42:22] Now, look.

[42:23] And they demonstrate by cutting his hand and he goes, owie!

[42:26] And then we get a close-up of his hand healing.

Dan McCoy

[42:31] Now, it will surprise no one that the science of all this is questionable.

[42:35] But when they say, like, oh, you put nanites in my blood.

[42:38] And she's like, no, your blood is nanites.

[42:41] I'm like, what?

[42:42] Important distinction.

[42:44] There's no blood left.

Elliott Kalan

[42:46] He has no blood.

[42:47] He just has – I mean, to be honest, you don't – as long as you've got something that's going to bring oxygen and things like that around your body, you don't need blood.

[42:54] Sure, great.

Dan McCoy

[42:54] But spoiler alert, there are a couple times in this movie where he basically gets blown apart and then he comes back together.

[43:00] And I'm like, okay.

[43:01] I don't know if at this point nanorobots explains this.

Stuart Wellington

[43:05] And also –

[43:06] I do like that when Dr. Harding cuts his hand to demonstrate his bloodshot powers, he does like – he's like, ow!

[43:13] And that is literally the only time in the rest of the movie when he's getting shot and blown apart that he seems to register the injury.

Elliott Kalan

[43:20] When he has nanites that heal him, but, like, literally he's being blown up, half his head gets blown away and then reforms.

[43:26] It should hurt so much.

[43:28] But instead, he's just like, whatever, I don't care.

[43:30] Like, he feels no pain now.

Griffin Newman

[43:31] It's mind over matter, okay?

[43:33] Physical pain is a mental prison.

[43:37] Because the whole point is Guy Pearce cuts his hand.

[43:40] He thinks it hurts because he doesn't know that he's fucking bloodshot yet.

[43:45] Yeah, I see.

[43:46] Yeah, you're right.

Elliott Kalan

[43:46] So every time – so now when he gets hurt, he's like, ow!

[43:49] And then he looks at his tattoo that says, you are bloodshot.

[43:51] And he's like, oh, yeah.

[43:52] Never mind.

[43:53] Right.

Griffin Newman

[43:53] Because that – no, that is a big – this is important detail.

[43:56] This is where this movie starts to start to, you know, riff on Robocop and Memento.

[44:01] The Guy Pearce, if it all, becomes a little clear.

[44:03] He also doesn't remember who he fucking is.

[44:06] He doesn't remember shit.

Stuart Wellington

[44:09] Yeah, he doesn't remember anything.

[44:10] He's introduced to a couple other enhanced soldiers.

[44:13] Tibbs, who lost his eyes but now has robot eyes and can see everything.

[44:18] And then Dalton –

Elliott Kalan

[44:19] His enhancement is actually kind of crappy in that he has cameras on his chest and they're

[44:23] hooked up to his eyes.

[44:24] So if he wears a shirt and is not wearing that harness, he's still blind again.

[44:28] He's V-neck only.

Stuart Wellington

[44:30] Yeah.

[44:30] And then there's Dalton, who has a pair of robot legs.

[44:33] And Dalton is played by the guy – he's that hunky outlander.

[44:36] He's a little fellow, right?

Elliott Kalan

[44:37] Yeah, yeah.

[44:38] And this, again, is a tip-off that if someone has artificial legs, they're going to be the

[44:42] murderer, just like the real-life artificial-leg murderer.

[44:44] That's a choice.

[44:45] Wow.

Stuart Wellington

[44:47] Oh, wow.

[44:48] Yeah, Dan doesn't want to get sued by the Oscar Pistorius.

Griffin Newman

[44:52] This movie, above all else, is anti-Pistorius Agaprop.

[44:56] That's the number one goal of this film.

Elliott Kalan

[44:59] The scene where Dalton fires through a bathroom door at his wife and then tells everyone he

[45:04] thought it was a burglar.

[45:05] That seems pretty on the nose.

Griffin Newman

[45:06] I just want to say, South African director filmed in Cape Town.

Stuart Wellington

[45:11] Yeah, that's connecting the dots.

Elliott Kalan

[45:14] Now, Stuart, now, wait, but they're not the only cyborgs, because what about Guy Pearce?

[45:17] Oh, yeah, I forgot.

Stuart Wellington

[45:18] Dr. Emile Harding has a cyborg arm that he lost in a tennis cancer accident, I think.

[45:24] I can't remember.

[45:24] Yes.

Dan McCoy

[45:25] I think it's just called a disease when cancer's involved.

[45:28] I don't think it's an accident, necessarily.

Elliott Kalan

[45:31] But they make it very clear that tennis was involved in some way.

Stuart Wellington

[45:33] Tennis was very important to him, but it also makes him strong.

Elliott Kalan

[45:37] Actually, that would have been a pretty good joke if he just had lift up his robot arm,

[45:40] and he's like, yeah, tennis elbow.

[45:41] What are you going to do?

Stuart Wellington

[45:44] That's a very Jonah Hex reaction.

[45:46] Yeah, that's true.

[45:47] So Vin Diesel has a nightmare about something or other.

[45:51] He punches the wall, and then he's like, wait, I can punch a wall?

[45:53] So he goes down to the basement, and he starts punching the shit out of stuff

[45:56] and doing curls with the biggest weights.

[45:58] Exactly what we would all do if we got super strength.

Elliott Kalan

[46:01] He's punching the shit out of a load-bearing pillar.

[46:05] He's punching a support pillar until it's cracking and the ceiling is dropping,

[46:10] and then he's like, oh, maybe I shouldn't do that.

Griffin Newman

[46:12] But you guys are missing a very important detail, which is he is also laughing while doing this.

[46:16] It is an amazing touch that he thinks this is so much goddamn fun already.

[46:23] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[46:25] So he then watches KT do some underwater Tai Chi.

[46:29] He's very impressed.

[46:31] She gives him this spiel and hands him a coin.

[46:34] Then she starts drinking with him.

Elliott Kalan

[46:36] She hands him a challenge coin, which usually you're given.

[46:39] You know what?

[46:40] I guess she's giving it to him to accept him as part of the group.

[46:42] Usually you get it for some sort of accomplishment.

[46:44] But she just kind of hands it to him.

[46:46] And that's a big thing, especially for these former military people.

[46:48] You don't just go handing out challenge coins willy-nilly.

[46:51] So already you're like, oh, this is pretty hardcore for people who just met that day

[46:56] and who she doesn't seem to like him very much until this moment.

[46:58] Yeah, they've gone through some shit.

[46:59] It's the ultimate peer-to-peer currency.

Griffin Newman

[47:01] And I also want to point out that they start drinking together, but it's not just, oh,

[47:06] let me take a bottle down from the shelf and we'll have some drinks.

[47:10] She steps over to a table near the gym where she's been swimming.

[47:16] And there is a full display of multiple different liquors and spirits.

Elliott Kalan

[47:21] Because they work hard and they play hard.

[47:22] And sometimes it's like the prisoner.

[47:26] You go for a workout.

[47:27] Someone tries to kill you.

[47:28] You go to a bar.

[47:29] You realize you've been poisoned.

[47:30] And you have to drink a little bit of every single drink there.

[47:32] So you throw up the poison.

[47:33] It's just like Patrick McGowan.

Griffin Newman

[47:35] If there was a full bar at most gyms, I would be going to the gym on a regular basis.

Dan McCoy

[47:41] And this was a very important point in the movie, too,

[47:43] because this was the point in the movie when I googled,

[47:45] can Wolverine get drunk?

[47:47] Because for me, it raised a lot of questions for me.

Elliott Kalan

[47:51] I mean, Wolverine, he has been drunk in the comics.

Dan McCoy

[47:54] Yeah, well, the answer I got is that he needs to drink a lot more, of course,

[47:58] because of his healing powers.

Stuart Wellington

[48:00] This is the one part of the movie that I got to give it some shit, Griffin.

[48:04] And I got to call it out because the reason they're drinking is because she's like,

[48:08] you lost your memory.

[48:09] You don't remember what you like to drink.

[48:11] And I'm like, that man knows he drinks fucking Corona, baby.

Griffin Newman

[48:16] Yep.

[48:16] No, I agree.

[48:17] I agree.

[48:17] It is actually a major logic flaw in the movie.

[48:20] I don't like to point out plot holes, but that just does not track for one second.

[48:25] He's got Corona in his blood as much as he has nanites in his blood.

[48:29] You can't pull that out of the man.

Elliott Kalan

[48:31] But we don't have time to focus too much on what he likes to drink because speakers that

[48:35] have not been set to any radio, as far as we could tell, start playing Psycho Killer,

[48:39] the song that was playing when he kills his wife, or when his wife was killed.

[48:44] And when he kills, well, I mean, you'll see.

[48:46] But when his wife was killed.

Dan McCoy

[48:48] It triggers him as almost as if it is some kind of trigger.

Elliott Kalan

[48:51] A literal and figurative trigger.

[48:54] And at no point is he like, wait a minute.

[48:56] Why did that speaker start playing a song?

Griffin Newman

[49:00] But this is, once again, like watching it the first time, I was like, okay, this movie

[49:04] just wants to get through the beats as quickly as possible with zero elegance.

[49:07] I'm watching it the second time.

[49:08] I'm like, the transparency of, and now she's finished her final line of dialogue.

[49:13] So the music is going to start playing randomly.

[49:15] It's the same song that was playing.

[49:17] It's chef's kiss for me.

Stuart Wellington

[49:19] Yeah, so at this point, it triggers him.

[49:21] He has a flashback to his wife being murdered.

[49:24] He realizes that his wife's been murdered by this guy.

[49:27] What is his name?

[49:28] Maximilian Axe or something?

[49:30] Martin Axe.

[49:31] Martin Axe.

[49:31] I'm sorry.

Elliott Kalan

[49:32] I mean, Maximilian Axe is an amazing name that they should have gone with.

[49:36] Max Axe.

[49:37] The guy they have playing him is not cool enough to carry the name Maximilian Axe.

Stuart Wellington

[49:41] He then walks to, he just walks with no security to the parking garage, takes, of course,

[49:47] a pickup truck, drives away, doesn't have to see security at all.

[49:52] He starts talking with Guy Pearce, who's like, hey, you can't leave.

[49:55] Like, he's talking to him through the nanites in his blood.

[49:57] You have speakerphone in your head.

[50:00] Yeah, basically.

[50:00] And this is one of my favorite bits in the movie where, you know, they're doing a little

[50:04] bit of back and forth and Vin's like, I just got to kill the guy who killed my wife.

[50:09] And Guy Pearce is like, no, you have to come back.

[50:11] He's like, I always come home, which was a little bit of banter he did with his wife.

[50:15] But for Guy Pearce, he's like, wait, what?

[50:20] Like, he uses banter that he does with his wife and Guy Pearce is like, uh, I'm not part

[50:24] of this.

[50:24] Isn't an inside joke for me, dude.

[50:26] I don't listen to your podcast.

[50:27] Yeah.

Griffin Newman

[50:27] It's almost like he's reciting hacky action movie dialogue.

[50:31] A wink, a wink, a wink.

Elliott Kalan

[50:33] I wish Guy Pearce had been like, wait, this is just like a temporary residence.

[50:38] Like, it's not your home.

[50:39] Like, we're going to set you up with an apartment, I guess.

[50:41] Like, this is, do you really think you live here now?

[50:44] Because we've got fast turnaround.

[50:46] And Vin's always like, no, man, this is my home now.

[50:48] I made it my own.

[50:49] I peed on everything.

[50:50] And Guy Pearce is like, why did you do that?

Griffin Newman

[50:52] But I also love, I mean, sort of the self-aware brilliance.

[50:56] Guy Pearce plays this scene.

[50:57] You're like, he's not putting up enough of a fight.

[51:00] He's not getting freaked out enough about the fact that this guy's going rogue.

[51:04] Because he's playing this scene like he has a hard out and they only have two takes

[51:10] to get it done and he's just trying to do the bare minimum.

Elliott Kalan

[51:13] Well, and they're, in retrospect, you know that they are putting on a little bit of an act.

[51:19] Because then the tech guy is like, oh my God, he's downloading a million things a minute

[51:23] into his computer brain.

[51:24] Right.

[51:24] And the way that people in worse movies are always stating out loud the thing they're amazed

[51:29] at that someone else is doing.

Griffin Newman

[51:30] And the tech guy is even more apathetic.

[51:32] Like, he can't even find a take on his character.

[51:35] He is so dispassionate when he says like, sir, there are five vans following him.

[51:40] But also, there's a great touch where Guy Pearce says like, Garrison, what are you doing?

[51:45] And then he turns around.

[51:47] There's no response.

[51:48] And he goes to the tech guy.

[51:48] And he's like, is the mic on?

[51:50] And the guy's like, no.

[51:50] And he's like, Jesus, turn the mic on.

[51:52] And then he just does the line reading again.

[51:56] They should choose the fact that this is a little.

[51:58] It's Eric, open a channel.

[51:59] That's what it is.

[51:59] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[52:00] Yeah.

[52:01] I would say that this tech guy is one of the things that rubbed me more so the wrong way

[52:05] in this movie, you know, wants the twist and everything.

[52:08] Because he is such a, because for all the things in the movie that seem to be cliche for a purpose,

[52:13] he is just cliche.

[52:15] And there's a bit about how he has a small penis that seems totally unnecessary.

Stuart Wellington

[52:19] Not only that he has a small penis, but he wants it enhanced by Guy Pearce.

[52:23] He wants a nanite penis.

Elliott Kalan

[52:24] He's about to ask to have it enhanced.

[52:26] And it was like, did we really like, is this really worth the movie to the runtime?

[52:31] I gotta say, when they set up that joke, I didn't like it.

Dan McCoy

[52:34] But when they pay it off, I kind of like it.

[52:35] Because Guy Pearce is so dismissive while still like, you know, like sort of like transmitting

[52:41] to the audience.

[52:42] Like he knows what this guy is secretly asking about, but he like just has no time for it.

[52:47] So I kind of laughed at that.

Stuart Wellington

[52:48] Well, it's like when you know your staff has some kind of bullshit request and you're like,

[52:54] well, I want to make them say it out loud.

Griffin Newman

[52:57] But also, I would argue there's a reading of this film in which that character, the tech

[53:02] guy, is the ultimate villain because he is the world's most despicable person, a shitty

[53:08] writer who is just cashing in his checks.

Elliott Kalan

[53:11] Oh, yeah.

[53:12] Well, he's the one who, he's just doing a job and he doesn't care who gets hurt.

[53:15] Right.

[53:15] It just, it just, there was just this moment of like, okay, yeah, the nerdy character has

[53:19] a small penis.

[53:20] I get it.

[53:21] Like nobody else in the movie is held up to that kind of casual ridicule.

[53:24] Yeah.

[53:24] You know?

[53:25] And considering there's a super cool tech guy later on who helps the hero, it like just

[53:30] made it even more so like, oh, okay.

Dan McCoy

[53:32] So you're offended on behalf of nerds is what you're saying.

[53:34] Yeah.

[53:35] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[53:35] Basically.

[53:35] Yeah.

[53:35] Nerds, the people, and the candy.

[53:37] But Stuart continue.

[53:38] What's he doing next?

Griffin Newman

[53:38] But one guy's an artist and the other guy is just like a hack fucking spec screenwriter,

[53:42] you know?

[53:43] Yeah.

[53:44] Yeah.

[53:44] So at this point.

[53:45] A spec screenwriter is doing it out of passion.

[53:48] No, this guy's writing specs just to be sold.

[53:50] You know what I'm saying?

[53:51] He doesn't even like them.

Stuart Wellington

[53:54] So at this point, as we've already addressed, it seems like.

[53:58] Oh, so you're saying he's Max Landis.

[54:00] Exactly.

[54:00] Okay, nevermind.

[54:01] Totally.

[54:01] Then I get it.

[54:02] Okay.

[54:02] I didn't realize he was Max Landis.

Dan McCoy

[54:03] Now I hate him.

[54:04] Tiny penis and all.

[54:04] Guys, guys, guys, guys.

[54:05] We're infuriating Stuart to unsustainable levels.

[54:10] We're interrupting his blood summary.

Stuart Wellington

[54:12] So Stuart, he steals a plane, right?

[54:15] Well, yeah.

[54:15] He steals a plane.

[54:16] It seems like he has the ability to download information and skills directly to his brain.

[54:22] He teaches himself how to fly on the fly.

Dan McCoy

[54:26] Oh, shit.

Stuart Wellington

[54:27] He tracks down Martin Axe and he stages an ambush in a tunnel using a semi-truck filled with flour.

Elliott Kalan

[54:38] I have to admit, this sequence I found really confusing.

[54:42] What part about it?

[54:44] I mean, just not the purpose of it or anything, but just like the actual plane choreography.

[54:48] It was very hard for me to figure out where he was and who was shooting what.

[54:53] It was a tough scene for me to figure out moment by moment.

[54:57] Yes.

Dan McCoy

[54:58] I would like to talk a little bit about this in so much as I think that the film looks good.

[55:04] Yeah.

[55:04] Like the vibe of it, it looks good.

[55:07] But in terms of the action sequences, other than the final action sequence, which I actually liked quite a bit.

[55:12] The final one I thought was really good.

[55:13] Yeah.

[55:14] It does fall prey a lot to the problem of a lot of modern action sequences where the fight choreography is not thought out particularly well.

[55:24] They're trying to cut a lot to make it seem exciting, which makes it sort of confusing just about the spatial.

[55:30] Like the scene looks great because you're in this like tunnel with all this like flower around like snow.

Stuart Wellington

[55:37] And it's lit only by like road flares.

[55:40] It's red lights and flower lights.

[55:42] Yeah.

[55:42] It looks great.

[55:43] It's like a samurai movie with like blood falling on the snow.

[55:48] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[55:48] Well, this director, I just want to say like his job before this, like he has one TV credit, one episode of television.

[55:56] But otherwise, he is the video game director of cut scenes.

[56:00] So do with that as you may.

Griffin Newman

[56:02] He comes from the same company.

[56:04] Wait, wait, Dan.

[56:05] What can I do with that?

Dan McCoy

[56:08] You said do with it as I may.

Elliott Kalan

[56:09] I don't even know where to begin with.

[56:10] You said tell it to the Marines maybe?

Dan McCoy

[56:11] Throw it away.

[56:12] And then on some holiday, you know, like deep into the future, perhaps a birthday, you know, like you can sort of like pull it out, you know, ponder it for a moment.

[56:24] Think about the time that's passed since we had this conversation and then put it back into the old memory thing.

[56:29] Sweet.

[56:29] Okay, what were you going to say?

[56:30] I will do that, Dan.

[56:31] Thank you.

Griffin Newman

[56:32] This guy comes from the same.

[56:34] He might have even been a co-founder of the same video game cut scene slash special effects house that the Deadpool guy came from and the Sonic the Hedgehog movie came from.

[56:43] So they are like the new film brats taking over the industry, except instead of all having the same alma mater that they went to for film school, they all worked on the same video cut scenes together.

[56:54] I do like, though, even though I think I agree that the choreography is not great and it's a little incomprehensible.

[57:01] I like that Bloodshot has to function as like his own art director and his own like gaffer.

[57:07] Like he's setting up good lighting and like good atmos for his fight scenes.

Stuart Wellington

[57:12] And I like that all the fight scenes in this movie look different.

[57:17] Yes.

[57:17] Like they're distinct different things.

[57:19] Like there is some thought being put into that.

Griffin Newman

[57:21] I think this movie has visual thought.

[57:23] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[57:24] So he wipes his, he kills all these mercs.

[57:27] He blows up a bunch of stuff.

[57:29] He manages to.

Elliott Kalan

[57:29] Every time you think he's defeated the mercs, there's like three more that pop out of a car.

[57:33] That was one of the things I was like, how many guys are there?

Stuart Wellington

[57:36] And Martin Axe not only is terrified of being attacked, but he realizes that there's something up.

[57:41] And we learned that Martin Axe knows more about Bloodshot than he should, right?

Griffin Newman

[57:47] But also Martin Axe's chin stroke in no way resembles the guy from the opening of the film.

[57:52] Does not seem like the same man who would wear like Bermuda shorts and flip flops and a big winter coat while dancing to Psycho Killer.

[58:00] He seems very timid and terrified.

Elliott Kalan

[58:02] Now we should, we should make it clear.

[58:03] This is Martin Axe and not the character Martin Axe from the Guardians of the Galaxy.

[58:08] Yep.

Stuart Wellington

[58:09] The, um.

Elliott Kalan

[58:10] That's a Marvel character, not a Valiant character.

Stuart Wellington

[58:13] So, of course, Vin Diesel kills him anyway.

[58:16] He heads home.

[58:17] He meets up with the rest of the team at an airfield where they seem annoyed, but they bring him back anyway.

[58:24] Uh, they mentioned something about his nanites almost being out of juice or something.

[58:29] Uh, and this is when we get the twist, guys.

[58:32] Who wants to talk about the twist?

[58:35] Uh, I think Griffin is role-

[58:37] I guess, I guess I will.

[58:38] Okay, you do.

[58:39] Okay, so this is when we find out that this is, this is just one of many missions that Bloodshot's been on.

[58:45] That he has had his memory erased and reset given a new implanted memory with a new target each time.

[58:53] It's the same script that he's working off of.

[58:55] And that explains all of the cliches, guys.

[58:58] It was intentional.

Elliott Kalan

[59:00] Oh, it's like wild things.

[59:02] It's supposed to be dumb.

Dan McCoy

[59:03] Now, I want to, I want to take a moment here to address the, this twist.

[59:09] Now, I think you can make a case for, like, maybe why it makes sense.

[59:15] And I will after this.

[59:18] But for the most part, the problem with this twist is it makes a lot more sense as a critique of action movies than it does as, like, a thing that would happen in life.

Elliott Kalan

[59:28] Because it's a-

[59:28] Well, wait, Dan.

[59:29] So, hold on.

[59:29] Wait, what?

[59:30] If I can interrupt your, interrupt your criticism.

[59:32] Uh, you're right.

[59:33] In real life, if you were using a reanimated marine's corpse filled with nanobots, you would probably not go to these elaborate lengths.

[59:41] You might even give it no personality.

[59:42] Although, as we later learn on, Guy Pearce says he's the perfect assassin for these moments because he's so passionate.

[59:47] Because he has a reason to do it.

[59:48] But I think you're right.

[59:49] If only, and I'll help you with this one thing.

[59:51] It means every time they reboot him, Guy Pearce has to give him the same tour of the facilities.

[59:55] I think that would get old pretty fast.

Stuart Wellington

[59:57] And they had to fix, they had to fix that load-bearing pillar each time.

[1:00:00] Yeah.

[1:00:01] Yeah, you're right.

[1:00:01] Here's the thing.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:02] Here's the thing.

[1:00:03] I bet that's not even really a load-bearing pillar.

[1:00:05] That's probably an elaborate, like, Universal Studios backlot tour thing where they're like, okay, and he's punching it and hit the button so that the ceiling drops just enough so it looks like it's weakened.

Dan McCoy

[1:00:15] Well, you've interrupted me for enough.

[1:00:17] As Jesse would say, shut your pie hole.

[1:00:19] I just want to say, like, it makes sense in the sense, like, if you're subverting the idea of a revenge movie, like, this is great.

[1:00:28] But in reality, it's kind of like, okay, well, why not just, like, reanimate a dude who doesn't care if he's killing a bunch of people and just have that dude kill a bunch of people without going through this elaborate charade every time?

[1:00:41] So this is my counterpoint.

Griffin Newman

[1:00:43] It makes no sense in a technical real-world level, but you kind of have to accept the movie on, like, a Paul Verhoeven level, which is because it's even underlined in the dialogue about, like, explaining to Outlander guy that he's better because he's more passionate, because he has a backstory.

[1:01:01] Like, essentially saying, this guy gets to be the lead of the movie and you don't because he has some weird charisma, he is emotionally accessible, and also the audience is given a reason to root for him.

[1:01:12] Like, he cares.

[1:01:14] I think the movie works as, like, a meta commentary on movie stardom and, like, what you need to do to make an audience care about an action movie.

Dan McCoy

[1:01:23] There is a throwaway line, too, and we have no reason to necessarily believe it because it's from Guy Pearce, our unreliable narrator, but there's a throwaway line about how, like, he's the one guy they were able to make this work with.

[1:01:36] And so if that's true, then you can make an argument, okay, like, they have to go through this charade because real-life Vin Diesel, whatever his fucking name is in this movie, has...

[1:01:48] Ray Garrison.

[1:01:49] ...has, like, a moral sense.

[1:01:50] So they need to, like, give him a motivation.

Griffin Newman

[1:01:53] Much like movie stars have some it factor that you can't manufacture.

[1:01:57] You can't build it in a lab.

[1:01:59] You can harness it.

[1:02:01] You can develop it further, but you either got it or you don't, kid.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:04] Well, as we know, as we learned, Guy Pearce is eliminating people he used to work with.

[1:02:09] Yes.

[1:02:09] Who are now business competitors of his.

[1:02:11] And so if it was someone like Dalton he was sending out, then Martin Axe could be like, hey, Dalton, I'll pay you twice what Guy Pearce is paying you, and then he'd just switch.

[1:02:19] But if the killer, if the assassin thinks that Martin Axe killed his wife, nothing's going to stop him.

[1:02:25] So you need to, that's why they want those fake memories.

Dan McCoy

[1:02:27] Well, he is a soldier, so I feel like you could give him a simpler lie where you're just like, oh, this is a bad guy.

[1:02:33] He needs to be taken out.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:34] Are you implying that our soldiers are not intelligent enough to see through lies?

[1:02:38] Because I would say, soldiers as I know, are very intelligent people.

Dan McCoy

[1:02:41] I'm implying that people in the military are actively encouraged to follow the chain of command without asking questions.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:50] But here's the thing.

[1:02:51] Then Guy Pearce has to pretend he's in the military, which he could do, which would be a different type of choice.

[1:02:55] It's a simpler lie is all I'm saying.

[1:02:57] But I'll say that Vin Diesel, then he's got to buy insignia and uniforms.

[1:03:01] Oh, boy.

[1:03:01] And then he's up against that foul, that stolen, the idea of stolen valor.

[1:03:06] But Vin Diesel, because usually military people only take orders from higher ups in the military.

[1:03:11] It's not like if you went up to a soldier and were like, hey, do this for me.

[1:03:14] They'd be like, I got to follow orders.

[1:03:15] Okay, boys.

[1:03:16] I know, Elliot.

[1:03:17] It's not like this is the game or something.

Dan McCoy

[1:03:18] Surely the man who has engineered all this could not pretend to be part of the military.

[1:03:23] That is a bridge too far, sir.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:26] I mean, then you get a thing like in the game where that guy is talking to him, and then he sees the guy later on a commercial for medicine.

[1:03:34] And it's like, maybe they shouldn't have hired an actor who does commercials.

[1:03:39] Sure.

[1:03:40] I also hired a guy who really works on the stage.

[1:03:42] I mean, ultimately, isn't that part of the game, though, Elliot?

[1:03:45] Oh, yeah, it is.

[1:03:46] I mean, I guess it's an intricate game.

Griffin Newman

[1:03:48] It's also like it has to be emotional and personal for him because he has to think that he is betraying orders to do, quote unquote, the right thing.

[1:03:59] Like, he has to be motivated by a self-righteousness.

[1:04:02] I also love that Guy Pearce's big evil plan is essentially, I want to fire everyone else who helped develop this script so I can be the only one who gets residuals.

[1:04:13] You know?

[1:04:13] Like, that's his big plan is like, we're going to sell it, and I'm going to make a ton of money, and the ends will justify the mean.

[1:04:19] I can be the only one with credit on this thing.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:22] So in a weird way, if we're mapping the Valiant universe onto it, it's almost like Jim Shooter, one of the founders of Valiant, former Marvel editor-in-chief, is like, okay, I've got to kill Bob Layton and David Michelin, all these other guys who worked with me on Valiant properties so that I can be the only creator.

[1:04:37] Which is not really a Phil Shooter thing to do.

[1:04:39] It's kind of more of a Stan Lee thing to do in a way.

[1:04:42] Guy Pearce is kind of playing Stan Lee in this way.

Griffin Newman

[1:04:44] But it's a lot of those, like, comic book universes, not the universes, but the actual, like, stories of the publishers themselves, where it's like all the grunt work goes up to the top, and then everyone gets thrown out, and they're like, yeah, I just one day thought of Spider-Man single-handedly.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:59] Oh, wow.

[1:05:00] This movie's so deep.

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:02] Yeah, so we cut back to Vin Diesel lying on a table, a man apart, Vin Diesel lying there.

[1:05:09] Dalton explains everything that's going on because he resents Vin Diesel.

[1:05:12] Because he's not a movie star, he doesn't have it.

[1:05:15] Yeah.

[1:05:16] Harding is planning on selling the technology.

[1:05:18] He just has one final guy that he needs to kill.

[1:05:23] Barriss?

[1:05:24] Barriss was his final partner who now needs to be eliminated.

[1:05:28] Chuck Barriss.

[1:05:28] Has to be killed.

[1:05:30] So at this point, they go through the whole routine again.

[1:05:33] We see bits of the routine, and we can see how it's fraying at the edges a little bit.

Griffin Newman

[1:05:39] And it's like a mundane day at the office for everyone.

[1:05:41] Like, now that it's been exposed, it's like his whole emotional backstory can be covered

[1:05:46] in a really, really rote montage.

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:50] He, at this point, we are introduced to Barriss, who has an army of goons, because everybody

[1:05:56] seems to be able to hire an army of goons.

[1:05:58] And he has his own tech guy, played by New Girls Lamorne Morris, with a English accent.

[1:06:06] Is that his real accent?

[1:06:07] No, absolutely not.

[1:06:08] No, no.

[1:06:08] Absolutely not.

[1:06:09] I think he's a Chicago guy, I think.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:11] No, that's a pretty heavy Chicago accent.

[1:06:13] He's got a lot of...

[1:06:14] Here we are.

[1:06:15] We're in the Windy City, and we're going to have some of that deep dish pizza.

[1:06:19] Oh, go Bulls.

Griffin Newman

[1:06:20] Put a lot on my hot dogs, mate.

Dan McCoy

[1:06:23] I would say he's playing this role with a lot of verve.

[1:06:26] I don't think that the jokes that are given to him are particularly good, but he's doing

[1:06:29] his level best to give everything he can to this.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:33] Oh, no.

[1:06:34] He's very admirable in the amount of enthusiasm he's giving.

[1:06:37] But, you know, he gets to play himself a local Chicagoan with that famous Chicago accent.

[1:06:43] It's the second city, love, but you know, we're the first city in the hearts of our neighbors.

Griffin Newman

[1:06:47] I will also say I auditioned for and actively pursued this role, and none of that stuff was

[1:06:55] in the script.

[1:06:56] It was very lacking in any sort of characterization.

[1:07:00] So it really feels like he threw on a lot of choices that I think largely work to try to

[1:07:06] define this guy's personality in some way.

[1:07:09] So was that true when you're trying to get that role?

[1:07:11] Oh, so badly you have no idea.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:14] Yes.

[1:07:15] Yes.

Griffin Newman

[1:07:15] A full court effort, multiple tapes.

[1:07:19] I made a direct plea.

[1:07:20] Like, I sent like a video testimonial in addition to my audition.

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:23] You offered to have your memory wiped and go on revenge free?

Griffin Newman

[1:07:27] I said, do what you want with my body.

[1:07:29] I will anonymously donate it to you.

Dan McCoy

[1:07:31] I will imagine that I must give the best performance of my life in order to avenge my wife.

[1:07:36] Yes.

[1:07:36] If you put me...

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:38] Did you do an English accent for the tape?

Griffin Newman

[1:07:41] I did, no, because that wasn't in the script.

[1:07:43] It was just like, there was none of that.

[1:07:45] It was, I think he pretty much, like the dialogue is pretty much the same, but it feels like

[1:07:51] none of that, none of his character choices were in the breakdown.

[1:07:56] I see.

[1:07:56] So I think he did a pretty creative job.

[1:07:59] With this role.

Elliott Kalan

[1:08:00] Yeah.

[1:08:01] And Stuart, did you mention that the swimmer has started getting upset?

[1:08:05] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:08:05] So she's, she obviously is not comfortable with what they're putting bloodshot through and

[1:08:11] she is getting upset with the whole situation.

[1:08:14] But Harding is like, this is just one last time, then we can sell it and we're done.

Griffin Newman

[1:08:18] She's stuck on like season six of a shitty TV show.

[1:08:22] And she's like, I'm tired of playing this same part over and over again.

[1:08:26] Yeah.

[1:08:26] She's, oh, what's her name?

Elliott Kalan

[1:08:28] From Fresh Off the Boat?

[1:08:29] Oh, she's Constance Wu.

[1:08:31] Yes, exactly.

[1:08:31] Constance Wu, which is a show I like, but she's the one where they're like, good news, we got

[1:08:35] another bloodshot mission.

[1:08:36] She's like, oh fuck.

[1:08:37] I gotta do the bloodshot thing again.

[1:08:39] I have like offers.

Stuart Wellington

[1:08:43] So we now, so bloodshot shows up to Barriss's compound and we have an action sequence that

[1:08:49] is mainly through like, what, like heat based security cameras of him like killing his way

[1:08:57] through goons.

Griffin Newman

[1:08:58] Because the nanites make him really hot in every sense of that word.

[1:09:04] But also enough that he glows, his red chest glows much like the Grinch learning to love

[1:09:09] Christmas.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:10] Or I would say much like Iron Man, the first character in a different, much more successful

[1:09:16] cinematic universe of comic book characters.

[1:09:18] Almost as if they're trying to fool us at times into thinking we're watching an Iron Man

[1:09:21] movie.

Stuart Wellington

[1:09:24] So he fights his way through there.

[1:09:28] We find out that Barriss's tech guy, what's his name?

[1:09:31] Wally, Wendell, something Wiggins.

[1:09:33] Wiggins.

[1:09:34] Wiggins actually has a portable EMP device that they have to charge up so they can take

[1:09:38] out bloodshot.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:39] And Wiggins is a, is a legendary techie guy.

[1:09:42] The techie guy that works for Guy Pearce is like, Wiggins, he's the king.

[1:09:45] I use some of his code for bloodshot.

Dan McCoy

[1:09:47] And Wiggins is dithering around in a way that initially you think is just because he's

[1:09:52] like going to be an annoying comic relief character, but he has his reasons for taking his time

[1:09:57] with his EMP.

[1:09:58] He has his raisins?

[1:09:59] He has his raisins, yeah.

[1:10:01] I clearly said raisins, Elliot.

[1:10:02] And they're golden.

Griffin Newman

[1:10:03] They're golden.

[1:10:04] I wrote here my notes.

[1:10:05] I wrote, uh, Guy Pearce is the hack filmmaker who has indie posters on his wall.

[1:10:10] Uh, Wiggins is the indie filmmaker trying to sneak through the studio system, but he's

[1:10:15] too esoteric to make something successful.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:17] Uh, and I, in my notes it just says Wiggins, Iroh, wisecracker.

Stuart Wellington

[1:10:24] So, uh, bloodshot fights his way through there.

[1:10:26] He kills Barris and you think that he is man to avoid the EMP, but somebody who we later

[1:10:32] learn is Wiggins triggers it anyway, taking out all the power and disrupting, uh, disrupting

[1:10:38] Harding's plan and his surveillance and control over bloodshot.

[1:10:42] This is the end of the movie.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:43] End of the movie.

[1:10:44] There's a moment here where it feels like the movie is trying a little too hard to, to call

[1:10:49] it, to call out cliche things where the tech guy's like, he's got an EMP, an electromagnetic

[1:10:53] pulse.

[1:10:53] That'll shut off all the electricity.

[1:10:55] And guy person's like, I know what an EMP is.

Stuart Wellington

[1:10:59] So of course, uh, Wiggins wakes, uh, bloodshot up using some, uh, like a car battery.

[1:11:05] Uh, and they basically explain at this point, like they talk a little bit about his powers

[1:11:09] and they're like, oh wow, now you're free of their control.

[1:11:11] We can do whatever we want.

[1:11:12] And he's like, well, what I want is to find my wife and kill this guy.

[1:11:15] And we're like, okay, that makes sense.

Dan McCoy

[1:11:16] But he's not completely free of their control in some sort of like vague way.

[1:11:21] I mean, like, like they can come back in and like hijack him.

[1:11:25] And this is one of the, this is one of the moments where I was a little confused plotting

[1:11:30] wise.

[1:11:30] It felt like maybe something got cut out.

[1:11:32] Maybe the script got changed because we leave Wiggins in such a way where as you think like,

[1:11:37] okay, well he's going to continue to work, uh, for Vin Diesel on this problem of like totally

[1:11:44] liberating Vin Diesel from their control.

[1:11:46] But then the next time we see him spoiler, like the swimmer.

[1:11:51] Is like, like kind of hijacking him and taking him off.

[1:11:55] So the two of them can work together to help Vin Diesel.

[1:11:57] I'm like, wait, hold on.

[1:11:58] Like in between times, like what was Wiggins doing?

[1:12:01] Like, was he trying to help?

[1:12:03] Was he just like ignoring him?

[1:12:05] Like, I don't get what was going on there.

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:07] He said he was like trying to hack the, the nanite sample that, that he gave him.

[1:12:12] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:12] Well, they said that at the end of the scene, but then we don't see any of that.

[1:12:15] Like he just kind of disappears in the movie.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:17] The next time we see Wiggins, he also has like his own personal bodyguards.

[1:12:21] Which confused me.

[1:12:22] I was so confused because I was like, wait a minute.

[1:12:24] So is he rich?

[1:12:25] Like, I don't understand.

[1:12:26] I don't know what Wiggins was working for Barris and he diverged himself as an indentured servant.

[1:12:31] But then like, but he also, he writes open source code.

[1:12:36] So like, is he a wealthy tech guy or is he like an anarchist tech guy who doesn't make money,

[1:12:41] but it's like a crazy master.

Griffin Newman

[1:12:43] You know, there are a couple, look, there are a lot of layers to Wiggins.

[1:12:46] It's a multifaceted character.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:47] If I can see why you want to play the character so bad.

Griffin Newman

[1:12:50] So bad.

[1:12:50] I mean, first of all, they explain that he is a sort of, uh, gone to seed former child prodigy,

[1:12:56] which is the number one thing I auditioned for.

[1:12:58] Whenever I see that in a log line, I think that.

[1:13:01] Yeah.

[1:13:01] Like a Billy Quiz Boy type of?

[1:13:03] Yeah.

Griffin Newman

[1:13:03] Just broken child genius, uh, 10 years later is, is kind of my wheelhouse.

[1:13:09] But so yes, he was sort of this child prodigy.

[1:13:12] I think they show a newspaper clipping that he won some sort of coding award in like elementary school.

[1:13:18] But I think, yes, he does open source because he's a fucking artist, Elliot.

[1:13:23] Okay.

[1:13:24] He's not about working for the man.

[1:13:26] He's got stuck.

[1:13:27] He's stuck in this fucking shitty contract.

[1:13:30] He got sold a false bill of goods.

[1:13:32] He's stuck on a first look deal with this shitty fucking guy.

[1:13:37] And to continue the analogy, he lets Vin Diesel go because he's still in the seduction period of like,

[1:13:43] he has gotten access to a coffee meeting with a major movie star who he's trying to convince to sign on so that he could get financing for his project.

[1:13:53] Like he's got a vague idea of like, this is how I could use you and it would be for good.

[1:13:58] But I don't totally have my shit together enough to get you to sign on for this yet.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:03] I think the metaphor works perfectly if it's in terms of filmmaking.

[1:14:07] It does not make sense in terms of the immediate story.

[1:14:13] I will concede that.

[1:14:14] He's like, bloodshot.

[1:14:15] I'm going to work on this problem for you.

[1:14:17] I'll see you, I guess, when I get around to it.

[1:14:20] Do you want status updates?

[1:14:21] Vin Diesel.

[1:14:21] No, that's okay.

[1:14:22] I got some stuff to do.

[1:14:23] All right.

[1:14:24] Do you want my phone number?

[1:14:25] Nah, I'll find you.

[1:14:26] It's okay.

[1:14:26] I got my nice in my head.

Stuart Wellington

[1:14:27] And Vin Diesel does have stuff to do because he goes to London.

[1:14:31] He tracks down his wife Gina's flat and he knocks on the door and they, you know, they

[1:14:38] have a reunion.

[1:14:39] But then we find out she's actually remarried.

[1:14:42] They're not together anymore.

[1:14:43] She has a child and it's been five years since she last saw him.

Griffin Newman

[1:14:47] Not only that, like they broke up long before he then was taken by Guy Pearce.

[1:14:54] Like not only has she moved on, but his memory of them being together up until the end is

[1:15:00] like far, far in the past.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:02] It's, I mean, that memory, I would go as far as to say what they're telling us is all of

[1:15:06] that memory is false.

[1:15:06] Yes.

[1:15:07] Yeah.

[1:15:07] This is literally, they took his last serious girlfriend and just slapped her face and

[1:15:13] name onto the idea of a wife.

[1:15:15] And who knows how long, and she makes it very clear, like this, it wasn't like, oh, this,

[1:15:20] you know, there was something happened and it got in her way.

[1:15:23] Like she did not want to be in a relationship with him anymore.

[1:15:25] Maybe they saw each other.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:26] Well, she suggested she wanted him to stay and not leave.

[1:15:29] I mean, that indicates that she did like him.

[1:15:31] No, no, no.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:31] But she also reacts with a little fear of him when he comes on.

[1:15:37] Yeah, he's scary.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:39] If Vin Diesel showed up on your doorstep, even if you're a fan, he's a little afraid.

[1:15:41] No, I know, but like, I do think that it implies.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:43] Because she realized she could just lose her, leave her current life behind to leave with

[1:15:47] Vin Diesel if he wants her.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:49] The connection implies to me that they not only broke up, but it was a bad breakup.

[1:15:56] And she's like, she is not unhappy to see him in the same way that you might not be unhappy

[1:16:00] to see someone that enough time has passed that you're cool with them again.

[1:16:04] And like, it's like nice for old time's sake.

[1:16:07] Yeah.

[1:16:07] But she seems a little nervous in a way that suggests that things ended very badly.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:12] Yes.

[1:16:12] And here there's something very realistic in this scene, which is that her young daughter

[1:16:15] will not stop trying to get her attention and make her come into the house while this

[1:16:19] hulking man is standing there upsetting her.

[1:16:21] And so it's like, look, I'm living that life right now, people.

[1:16:24] It's very hard to, like, you could tell a kid, I'm talking to my ex and he's a super

[1:16:29] marine assassin.

[1:16:30] And so I'm a little afraid of why he's here.

[1:16:31] The kid does not care.

[1:16:32] They just want to come and show you their new Paw Patrol thing.

Griffin Newman

[1:16:35] I fully love this scene because I feel like this, the real Gina that we're seeing for

[1:16:40] the first time is the only character who is not in the movie Bloodshot.

[1:16:46] It's just like, I just have a day to do.

[1:16:50] And yeah, the arc of the scene is like, that was a bad breakup, but I've moved on.

[1:16:54] I don't hold it against him anymore.

[1:16:55] My life turned out okay.

[1:16:57] He shows up on her doorstep.

[1:16:58] She's like, oh, this is like funny and weird.

[1:17:00] I guess you're in the neighborhood.

[1:17:01] We'll catch up for a couple minutes.

[1:17:03] Then she starts to become scared that he's a psycho.

[1:17:06] And then she goes all the way around to feeling actually bad for him, where you can tell by

[1:17:11] the end of the scene, she's like, is he having like a psychotic break?

[1:17:15] Like, he's not making any sense.

[1:17:16] And my note I wrote here is, love that the Gina scene is fully embarrassing.

[1:17:21] Just a completely earnest face plant.

[1:17:24] Like, there is a level of vulnerability to how much Vin is failing in this scene.

[1:17:30] And to the point also where Vin is a famously deep voiced man.

[1:17:34] His voice cracks a couple times in this scene where he goes like, when was the last time you saw me?

[1:17:40] And she goes, five years.

[1:17:41] And he goes, five years?

[1:17:43] And he sounds like a cookie monster.

[1:17:46] Like, he's doing both like a falsetto vibrato.

[1:17:50] But it is this thing where he just like cannot fathom that even though everyone was lying to him, he assumed that she must have been waiting out there for him in his life.

[1:18:01] And he's just being told like, he was forced to method act.

[1:18:05] Like, he was using a backstory of a woman to map onto the scenes that he was playing on a day-to-day basis.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:12] There's something about, like you're saying that every other situation, it's like, oh, I can tough guy my way through this.

[1:18:17] But there is no way, aside from becoming a monster and doing something monstrous, there's no way to tough your way out of like going to visit someone you think you're in a relationship with and then being like, no, this is not happening.

[1:18:29] And so he's not just dealing with the fact that, oh, all of my memories are different and I don't have a life.

[1:18:34] It's also like, yeah, embarrassment.

[1:18:36] Like, oh, this is awkward.

[1:18:37] I don't even know.

[1:18:37] Now I feel like a jerk and she feels bad for me and I don't want that.

[1:18:41] Like, I want her to think I'm cool.

[1:18:42] Like, I'm a cool guy.

[1:18:43] I'm a bloodshot.

Stuart Wellington

[1:18:45] And I'm assuming he's thinking all that stuff.

[1:18:47] He's thinking like, why did this specific conditioning work so well on me?

[1:18:51] What does that say about my personality?

[1:18:53] So while he's having these thoughts, he then gets attacked by Tibbs and Dalton who are on the hunt.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:58] This must be such a relief for him to be like, oh, thank goodness.

[1:19:01] I don't have to be a fool.

[1:19:02] Oh, I can just battle.

[1:19:03] In front of my ex-girlfriend.

[1:19:04] Yeah, I can just battle these guys.

[1:19:05] This is what I can do.

[1:19:06] Like, that's something I wish they had shown a little bit more of him being like, oh, thank God.

[1:19:09] I can get into a fight now.

[1:19:10] Yeah.

[1:19:11] I'm having to deal with these emotions.

Griffin Newman

[1:19:12] I don't have to find an out for this conversation anymore.

[1:19:15] I don't have to pretend like I have to be somewhere.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:17] He doesn't have to go, vert, vert.

[1:19:19] Oh, that was my phone.

[1:19:20] Hold on.

[1:19:20] New girlfriend?

[1:19:23] Yeah, I'll come have sex with you.

[1:19:24] I gotta go.

Stuart Wellington

[1:19:27] So this is basically a chase sequence where Bloodshot is running away.

[1:19:31] Dalton is firing these, like, EMP bullets at him that, like, sterilizes nanites or something.

[1:19:38] While Tibbs is, like, doing all kinds of hot dog stunts on his fucking motorbike.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:45] And there's some really great comic relief policemen in a car.

Stuart Wellington

[1:19:49] That is great, where he, like, kicks the car and there's, like, three slow motion shots of these two cops who, despite being in London, are eating American-style donuts and coffee.

[1:20:00] Are fucking, like, Keystone cops.

[1:20:02] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:20:03] But, no, like, yeah, the car is, like, sort of, like, at half speed spinning around and Vin is backing away using the car as a, like, shield as it rotates.

Stuart Wellington

[1:20:15] It's pretty great.

[1:20:15] Yeah, and it keeps cutting to them going, what?

[1:20:18] No!

Elliott Kalan

[1:20:19] I just watched the first half of Onward last night and, like, these cops could have been in Onward.

[1:20:24] Oh, yeah.

[1:20:24] That's how suddenly cartoonish they are.

Stuart Wellington

[1:20:27] Yeah, I kind of wanted a scene with these two cops telling their, like, friends and family, like, the night after this situation, what they saw and what just happened.

[1:20:37] But, um, so, you know, the fight continues.

[1:20:41] Dalton's robot legs get knocked off.

[1:20:43] It looks like Vin's got him.

[1:20:44] And then Tibbs drives up and stabs him in the back with a jackknife, which I guess logs him onto the internet.

[1:20:52] And then they shut him down remotely.

Dan McCoy

[1:20:53] Yeah, and he has, like, three seconds to pull this knife out.

[1:20:57] And I'm, like, in my, I'm just, like, yelling, like, Vin, Vin, when they, like, jab you with a thing, you pull it out.

[1:21:03] Because you gotta know that they're trying to hijack him into the Matrix.

[1:21:06] But, like, he's, like, too into it.

Griffin Newman

[1:21:06] But if there's one thing I know about Vin Diesel, it's that he never pulls out.

[1:21:11] No one has ever believed in the pullout method less than Vin Diesel.

[1:21:16] No, he's, he's, he never enters unless he's invited, but he never pulls out.

Stuart Wellington

[1:21:22] I want to make this very clear.

[1:21:24] Okay.

[1:21:25] Okay.

[1:21:26] The, I mean, also, like, just logistically, I don't think he can get his arms all the way around to his back.

[1:21:31] He's just too muscly.

Elliott Kalan

[1:21:32] That is also true.

[1:21:33] Well, you can just flex.

[1:21:34] Use those nanites to extend his arms a little bit.

[1:21:36] Like, come on.

[1:21:37] Or tell the nanites to push that thing out.

Stuart Wellington

[1:21:39] Okay, so now KT goes on her own mission.

[1:21:42] She, uh, she waits outside for Wiggins to leave his hotel with his security detail.

[1:21:46] She uses her, uh, her special breathing abilities to blow poison smoke into people's faces.

[1:21:53] But she herself is unaffected by that smoke because, as we've addressed, she has special breathing abilities because of her cyborg lungs.

[1:22:00] She then beats up some dudes with one of those rods and then, uh, captures Wiggins.

[1:22:05] Although, when she returns to Harding, she says, Wiggins got away.

[1:22:10] What?

[1:22:11] Hold on.

Elliott Kalan

[1:22:12] Now, what if, now here's, guys, what if she got mistaken and she went, while she was capturing this Wiggins, she thought the mission was to go kill Wiley Wiggins.

[1:22:21] Oh, no.

[1:22:21] Stard dazed and confused.

[1:22:23] And, but he got away.

[1:22:25] I mean, so it's.

Griffin Newman

[1:22:26] What you're describing now, Ellie, it isn't an action film.

[1:22:28] It's a tragedy.

[1:22:30] I cannot even, even for laughs on a podcast, imagine what would happen if we were to lose Wiley Wiggins.

[1:22:37] Austin, Tomesine staple.

Stuart Wellington

[1:22:40] Luckily, he's far too Wiley to be captured by the license.

Elliott Kalan

[1:22:43] The Wiley is the ball Wiggins.

[1:22:46] Wiley Wiggins.

[1:22:47] He was able to use his acne devices to get away.

Stuart Wellington

[1:22:52] So while, while KT is deceiving them, Harding has a chat with Bloodshot in the, what, neural realm?

[1:22:58] Which is basically one of those, like, inevitable, like, you know, is it worth fighting?

[1:23:03] Yada, yada.

[1:23:04] You should just do this because what is life anyway?

Griffin Newman

[1:23:07] Well, he essentially gives Bloodshot a series of notes.

[1:23:10] He gives him a round of notes.

[1:23:11] He's like, can I just give you just a quick pass on some of the stuff you've been doing?

[1:23:15] You're really going with this analogy.

[1:23:15] Keeping the analogy going.

[1:23:16] I love it.

[1:23:17] I love the determination.

[1:23:17] But then it even gets down to, he goes, like, I made you the best version of yourself.

[1:23:22] And Bloodshot says, you're the best version of me.

[1:23:25] And he's like, look, I made you sad.

[1:23:27] I killed a fake girlfriend.

[1:23:29] Like, but I got you there.

[1:23:30] And he's essentially the abusive director saying, like, look, if I got the performance out of you, isn't that, like, what you wanted at the end of the day?

[1:23:39] Yeah, Shelley Duvall.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:40] Right.

[1:23:40] It was hard for me to pay attention to this since I was still blown away from the five or six minutes they spent building the fake Italy that they're in.

[1:23:49] Yeah, they did a real serenity where the graphics just sort of came out.

[1:23:55] You don't need this much Italy for this conversation they're having.

[1:23:58] We don't need the mountains.

Stuart Wellington

[1:24:00] So now that KT has lied and said that Wiggins is on the run, he's in the wind, they decide to stop draining the nanites out of him.

[1:24:08] And instead, they got a reboot Bloodshot and they have to map Wiggins' face back on the murderer of his wife.

[1:24:15] KT interrupts the sim while we find out that Wiggins, who is in the wind, is actually in a van underneath the building.

[1:24:25] And he hacks into the Bloodshot system, waking up Bloodshot.

[1:24:30] Bloodshot wakes up.

[1:24:31] KT uses her breathing ability again to sneak around Guy Pearce.

[1:24:37] She then uses her breathing ability to blow up the server system.

[1:24:41] I mean, I don't know that she used her breathing ability for that.

Griffin Newman

[1:24:43] She just walked in and blew it up.

[1:24:45] I don't think you could have done it with your human life.

[1:24:47] Right.

[1:24:48] But also, she blows it up with similarly Bloodshot-esque, very moody, red-lighting explosives.

[1:24:56] Because she now needs to prove that she also can be an action star.

Dan McCoy

[1:25:01] She also blows it up with great trust that the windows behind her are not going to burst.

[1:25:07] She's spraying glass into her.

[1:25:10] She can breathe a glass, though.

[1:25:11] That they can breathe a glass, though.

Stuart Wellington

[1:25:12] Explosion-proof glass, yeah.

[1:25:13] And the belief that those servers aren't 100% necessary to the functioning of these nanites.

Elliott Kalan

[1:25:19] Yeah, that's a good point.

[1:25:21] Now, this is around the point when I started realizing that this movie is basically Tootsie as an action movie.

[1:25:26] When both are about somebody who's forced to really transform themselves and become a new person.

[1:25:32] Not because it's best, really, for them.

[1:25:34] But because the system around them has decreed it.

[1:25:36] That that's the only way they're going to survive.

[1:25:38] In the mode that is, you know, most comfortable with them.

[1:25:41] The only way they can survive.

[1:25:42] And that, again, there's a woman assisting who doesn't really get her own full lifer story.

[1:25:48] But is still necessary to making Bloodshot, or as I call him Tootsie, you know, successful.

[1:25:55] Until he can turn the tables and reveal himself again.

Griffin Newman

[1:25:58] Well, because, look, she's trying to take control of her narrative again.

[1:26:02] She's trying to restart her career on her own terms.

[1:26:04] And she's the one who proactively reaches out to Wiggins.

[1:26:08] And is like, we should be united in this, figuring out how to bypass the studio system.

Elliott Kalan

[1:26:13] So you're saying she is Elizabeth Banks creating her own projects.

[1:26:17] Yes.

[1:26:17] So that she's more than just, like, an actress who at some point will have to play moms,

[1:26:22] even though she is only 10 years older than the kid playing her child.

[1:26:25] Right, yeah.

[1:26:26] And so she's going to make her own stuff.

[1:26:28] I see.

[1:26:28] I get that.

[1:26:28] That makes sense.

[1:26:29] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:26:30] So now Dalton puts on an exosuit because those robot legs alone aren't going to kill Bloodshot.

[1:26:37] So he puts on this exosuit that has two extra arms, and then he gets in a fight with Bloodshot.

[1:26:42] This is a pretty cool fight.

[1:26:43] Like, I like that the exosuit arms basically are just a little bit longer, so it gives him some reach.

Dan McCoy

[1:26:48] No, it looks like he's wearing, like, the arms from that scene in Nightmare on Elm Street where Freddy just extends his arms really silly.

[1:26:56] Yes.

[1:26:56] Yeah.

[1:26:56] And scrapes the fences.

[1:26:59] Yeah, it's trying to – psychological warfare right there.

[1:27:01] Yeah, I'm going to say, like – I'm not going to pretend I didn't like the movie up until this point,

[1:27:06] but I also – when he put on these extra long robot arms, I'm like, okay, well, this is the movie I really wanted to be seeing.

[1:27:13] 100%.

Griffin Newman

[1:27:14] 100%.

[1:27:15] So as I believe, I would assume, the only person here who has watched all these special features on the digital release of Bloodshot.

[1:27:23] I think that's a fair assumption.

[1:27:25] And this goes back to the point of the earlier action sequences not being terribly exciting, even if the movie itself is kind of stylish overall.

[1:27:33] This movie had a budget of, like, $40 million, which is very, very budget for something that is trying to kickstart a cinematic universe based on comic books.

[1:27:43] But there is an alternate ending with a director's intro that is this final battle, except it just happens without any CGI in the swimming pool that Isa Gonzalez does her dances in.

[1:27:59] And then he just drowns him to death.

[1:28:00] Oh, okay.

[1:28:01] And they said that that was the ending in the script with the budget they had, and they screened it for the studio, and they were like, this is the most anticlimactic thing of all time.

[1:28:12] Oh, shit.

[1:28:12] So this entire final action sequence is, like, the one reshoot in the movie that is them saying, like, we'll give you a couple extra million dollars.

[1:28:21] Make your video game cut scene.

[1:28:22] Like, we know you can do that.

[1:28:24] Do your insane comic book fight scene.

[1:28:26] And it's why it's the only fight scene in this that is actually pretty exciting.

[1:28:30] I mean, that explains why they spent a good amount of time setting up that swimming pool.

Elliott Kalan

[1:28:35] Yes.

[1:28:35] Because otherwise, there's no reason for her to be a swimmer, no reason for her power to be special breathing, no reason for them to have a pool.

Griffin Newman

[1:28:41] Swimming pool is supposed to be the Chekhov's gun that then Vin Diesel transfers so many nanites to this guy that he becomes heavy and drowns in the pool.

Stuart Wellington

[1:28:52] Oh, wow.

Griffin Newman

[1:28:53] So that's a terrible, terrible alternate fight.

[1:28:56] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:28:57] Yeah.

[1:28:57] And he's like, I wish I had the lung breathing power instead.

[1:29:02] Right.

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:03] Because this scene is a really fun, like, creative action scene.

[1:29:09] Yeah.

[1:29:09] And the only issue I had with it was that they seem to keep forgetting that Vin Diesel has nanites in his body and can come back from anything because they're just dropping him down elevator shafts and then they're surprised when he comes back.

[1:29:18] And he's like, yeah, dudes, he's full of nanites.

[1:29:20] I don't know what to tell you.

Griffin Newman

[1:29:21] But then also, this is when he, like, goes turbo and finally transforms into something that vaguely resembles the comic book character.

[1:29:28] Like, he gets his sort of kabuki bloodshot getup where he's pale white and his eyes are red.

Stuart Wellington

[1:29:35] The thing about this exosuit is it reminded me of the movie Elysium if the movie Elysium was cool and had longer arms for the exosuit.

[1:29:44] So, yeah, so they get in this big fight.

[1:29:47] It's crazy.

[1:29:47] They end up on these, like, giant elevators.

[1:29:51] Tibbs joins in in the fight and you're like, whoa, dude, you don't even have an exosuit.

[1:29:55] And, of course, Dalton ends up letting Tibbs die.

[1:29:59] And he thinks he's got bloodshot, but, of course, bloodshot kills Dalton.

[1:30:03] And he falls all the way to the bottom.

[1:30:05] And you're like, oh, man, he's almost dead.

[1:30:07] And then, nope, he's not dead.

[1:30:09] And he interrupts Harding, who, or, yeah, what's his name?

[1:30:12] Harding, Hartness, whatever.

[1:30:14] Harding.

[1:30:14] Who is trying to escape.

[1:30:16] He throws a robot arm through his car.

[1:30:19] And Harding shoots bloodshot with a grenade, which maxes out his, depletes his nanites, I guess, because using the nanites a lot, his nanite percentage goes down like 2% or something.

[1:30:33] And you're like, what the fuck?

[1:30:34] But he sees this.

Griffin Newman

[1:30:34] Guy Pearce has a readout on his rubbit arm.

[1:30:37] And it says nanite levels depleted at a certain point.

[1:30:41] And that is one of those lines.

[1:30:43] Even if it's not spoken out loud, if your movie can somehow get to nanite levels depleted as three words in a row, you have me.

Stuart Wellington

[1:30:53] It's so great because Lamorne Morris Wiggins is watching the nanites reducing out his computer screen.

[1:31:00] And as soon as they hit zero, all of his monitors turn off.

Elliott Kalan

[1:31:05] That was one of the stranger things earlier, too, when he sets off the EMP.

[1:31:09] His Wiggins monitors don't turn off.

[1:31:11] They just say no feed.

[1:31:13] So I guess maybe his stuff was shielded.

[1:31:15] I don't know.

[1:31:15] But it just seems very funny that it shuts off everything.

[1:31:17] But his stuff is fine.

[1:31:19] He's got some hand-cranked computers.

[1:31:20] Yeah.

[1:31:21] But I also...

[1:31:22] He has a horse walking in a giant wheel.

[1:31:25] And that's how it works.

Dan McCoy

[1:31:26] I mean, he is the one guy who knew that this was coming.

[1:31:29] I don't know.

[1:31:29] That's fair.

[1:31:30] That's very fair.

Griffin Newman

[1:31:31] But Harding is also making the argument of like, well, you can't kill me.

[1:31:36] I'm the only person who understands how to use you.

[1:31:38] Like, I made you.

[1:31:40] You're inherently tied to me.

[1:31:42] And what I wrote down here was, it's literally about the three POC characters fighting for autonomy and control of their narrative.

[1:31:50] And the conventional white man's fight against irrelevance.

[1:31:54] And then my next note is, I love this movie.

[1:31:57] I can't wait to watch it a third time.

Stuart Wellington

[1:32:04] So, yeah.

[1:32:05] So at this point, his nanites are depleted.

[1:32:08] Guy Pearce shoots another grenade at him.

[1:32:11] The last bit of nanites are used to strip the casing off the grenade.

[1:32:15] Guy Pearce walks up and he's like, the nanites are gone.

[1:32:18] It's just you.

[1:32:20] And then, of course, Vin Diesel reveals.

[1:32:23] I mean, at that point, you're like, yeah, he's just Vin Diesel.

[1:32:26] You're totally dead, dude.

[1:32:27] So he holds out in his hand that he's got the grenade, which he drops on the ground and it explodes.

[1:32:32] He's killing Guy Pearce and theoretically killing Vin Diesel.

[1:32:36] Finally, he can rest.

[1:32:38] His hard work is over.

Griffin Newman

[1:32:40] He knows for the first time, much like Murphy realizing he is Murphy and not RoboCop.

[1:32:46] He realizes for the first time just who he is inside.

[1:32:50] His true heart is enough to be a hero.

Elliott Kalan

[1:32:52] That is something that I feel like it's weakened slightly by the fact that the audience has no idea who he is.

[1:32:56] Oh, no.

[1:32:57] We haven't met Ray Garrison.

Griffin Newman

[1:32:58] We don't know him at all.

Elliott Kalan

[1:32:59] No.

[1:32:59] All we know is that he has an ex-girlfriend that he still has feelings for.

[1:33:03] And otherwise, I don't know if he was really in the military.

[1:33:06] I guess so.

[1:33:06] When he says, I said I'd always come home.

[1:33:08] And she was like, but I wanted to stay at home.

[1:33:10] He could have been a traveling salesman.

[1:33:12] I don't know.

[1:33:12] As opposed to the colorful character Murphy was before he became RoboCop.

[1:33:19] No, but you see Murphy's family.

[1:33:20] You know what Murphy's actual family is.

[1:33:22] Yeah.

[1:33:22] He can do the gun trick.

Stuart Wellington

[1:33:23] He's spinning pistols around.

Elliott Kalan

[1:33:25] Exactly.

[1:33:25] And I think that's one of Verhoeven's jokes is that Murphy has more personality as a robot than he did as a human being.

[1:33:31] But when he's like, I know who I am now, the audience is like, great.

[1:33:35] Are we going to find out?

[1:33:37] Because I know your name.

[1:33:38] Is your name really Ray?

[1:33:39] I think it is.

[1:33:40] Is that a nickname?

[1:33:41] I don't know.

Stuart Wellington

[1:33:42] So we, of course, next thing we know, Bloodshot is waking up from a new fresh injection of nanites.

[1:33:49] They're hanging out in a trailer somewhere along Pacific Coast Highway 1, I bet.

[1:33:53] Which is along the South African coast.

Elliott Kalan

[1:33:56] Wiggins is dressed so stylish.

[1:33:58] He's gone Hollywood.

Griffin Newman

[1:33:59] He sold his first script.

[1:34:01] He's now on the other side.

[1:34:03] He's new money.

Dan McCoy

[1:34:06] Yeah, I didn't quite understand the logic of this where it's just like, okay, well, we blew up the bad guys.

[1:34:11] So now I guess I'm rich.

Stuart Wellington

[1:34:13] But whatever.

[1:34:14] That's the thing.

[1:34:14] He secretly has been running the exact same con that Harding has been doing.

[1:34:20] And Harding was his last rival in the game, right?

[1:34:23] Yeah.

[1:34:24] Now he controls Bloodshot.

Elliott Kalan

[1:34:27] Although his Bloodshot control, we don't know.

[1:34:30] Yeah.

[1:34:31] That's what he's been telling people anyway.

[1:34:33] But then they, now they're all, it's really funny because Vin, and then Vin Diesel tells KT, he's like, now we get to choose our own destinies.

[1:34:40] And they all drive off together.

[1:34:41] And I'm like, so why are you guys a team now?

[1:34:44] Yeah.

[1:34:44] Like, there's nothing holding you together except that you were all part of this thing.

[1:34:47] But like, why?

[1:34:48] What is keeping them together?

[1:34:49] What are things they can do together?

[1:34:51] But it's also perfect.

Griffin Newman

[1:34:52] Yeah.

[1:34:52] What can they do together, Elliot?

[1:34:54] Well, she can breathe shit while he's punching people.

[1:34:58] And Wiggins' codes sounds like a perfect trio to me.

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:02] No, I mean, in terms of powers, yes, it meshes perfectly.

[1:35:06] So complimentary.

[1:35:07] But it's like, Wiggins is like, hey, I've known you for a couple days and you tried to kill me for a little bit.

[1:35:13] And KT is like, hey, I've seen you be used over and over again as a robo-assassin.

[1:35:17] I guess we're a family now?

[1:35:19] Yeah.

[1:35:19] And I guess everything with Vin Diesel is about family.

[1:35:22] Every Vin Diesel movie is about family.

[1:35:24] Fast and Furious, Bloodshot, Olive Garden.

[1:35:26] It's all about family for him.

Griffin Newman

[1:35:28] And Vin Diesel also, or not Vin Diesel, but the movie at large, including Vin Diesel, plays the total recall card.

[1:35:36] Which is you have this shot of them driving into the sunset and then they literally lampshade it and say,

[1:35:42] driving off into the sunset, are we sure this isn't a simu?

[1:35:46] And it cuts off Lation and goes to credits.

Stuart Wellington

[1:35:49] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:35:50] It's like, yeah, it's the spinning top at the end of Inception.

Dan McCoy

[1:35:53] Yeah, well, the end scene is so perfect that it does, it is impossible not to have that thought.

[1:35:59] Like, is this just another level of manipulation?

[1:36:02] And then the movie, as you say, lampshades it.

[1:36:05] And like, I like how kind of lightly they treat it.

[1:36:08] But also, the more I think about it, like, the idea that maybe they were trying to start a Valiant universe,

[1:36:14] like, it's much more ballsy that they end the movie this way because it suggests that any possible sequels are all also just a fantasy that Bloodshot is having.

Elliott Kalan

[1:36:22] And it's all in the St. Elsewhere Kids Head, ultimately, all these movies.

[1:36:27] But I was waiting for the mid-credits sequence where they're like, sir, sir, this killer on the loose, don't worry, we'll stop him with the Harbinger project.

[1:36:35] But then what you said makes sense that they don't have a scene like that.

[1:36:38] But I was waiting for that mid-credits sequence for the set of characters no one has heard of ever.

Stuart Wellington

[1:36:43] Yeah, yeah, they're like, excuse me, Mr. Toyo Harada, we have information about the hardcore project or whatever.

Griffin Newman

[1:36:51] Yeah, I mean, aside from the fact that the audience wouldn't recognize those names, it also just feels like, to your point, Dan, you know,

[1:36:57] and I think to this movie's credit, whether or not it was, you know, intentional on the filmmakers' parts,

[1:37:04] few films have ever felt less conducive to building out a bunch of spinoffs.

Elliott Kalan

[1:37:10] Since the movie, it is like they tried to make a Total Recall universe, and they'd be like, oh, yeah, yeah, all that stuff was real.

[1:37:16] All this stuff happened, he went to Mars and all that stuff.

Griffin Newman

[1:37:18] You're like, what the fuck happens parallel to this? What are you talking about?

[1:37:22] Like, I love that the movie is sort of such a failure at building out a cinematic universe that it becomes a perfect self-contained movie.

Stuart Wellington

[1:37:29] It did such a bad job at it that if they were to say, Bloodshot 2's coming out next summer, we would all be like, yes, please.

[1:37:36] Yes.

[1:37:37] Yeah.

[1:37:39] So, yeah, why don't we go into Final Judgments, guys?

Dan McCoy

[1:37:42] Yeah, this is where we say whether it's a good, bad movie, a bad, bad movie, or a movie we kind of liked,

[1:37:47] but I think we all know that we enjoyed this movie, so.

Elliott Kalan

[1:37:50] I think there's a continuum of enjoyment.

[1:37:53] I think we all kind of liked it.

[1:37:55] I think that Griffin may be the only one who loves it entirely.

Griffin Newman

[1:37:59] And I think it's the best movie you've ever covered on this podcast.

[1:38:04] And I want to plant this flag now before there's some five years later John Wick Jack Reacher style reassessment from the people, not you guys,

[1:38:15] but the people who have dismissed this movie out of hand.

[1:38:18] Here's another thing, another little nuance I like in this movie.

[1:38:21] There's this scene where KT comes to Guy Pearce and is like, I want out of my contract.

[1:38:28] Like, I want to go on to appear in Marvel movies or whatever Constance Wu was trying to do instead.

[1:38:35] And Guy Pearce tries to make the argument for why what they're doing is still, like, artistically valid.

[1:38:40] And she's saying, like, he deserves to, like, be let go of this.

[1:38:46] He deserves to not be run through this simulation over and over again.

[1:38:51] And Guy Pearce really earnestly says what he deserves is a military funeral.

[1:38:56] Because I feel like, unlike a lot of movies where they try and fail to build up a sort of ideology that the villain thinks that he's the good guy,

[1:39:05] this is a movie in which the villain wants to get brownie points for being woke.

[1:39:10] Like, he wants to pretend that he is actually the most considerate and empathetic.

[1:39:15] And that he is doing this for a better reason and a greater cause and the ends justify the means.

[1:39:21] Not just that, like, you know, ultimately this will pay out, but also, like, you don't understand.

[1:39:26] I'm actually more considerate than you are.

[1:39:28] I recognize that he's a fucking hero.

Stuart Wellington

[1:39:33] Yeah, he's the real ally in this situation.

[1:39:35] Yeah, he's the ultimate ally.

Dan McCoy

[1:39:37] I mean, I will say, like, I may overvalue this movie just because there are a few things I like better than, like,

[1:39:44] a scrappy little sci-fi action movie.

[1:39:48] Totally.

Elliott Kalan

[1:39:49] Or a scrappy do.

[1:39:51] Or scrappy do.

[1:39:52] Love him.

Dan McCoy

[1:39:53] Most people say he ruined Scooby-Doo.

[1:39:55] Not me.

[1:39:56] He perfected it.

[1:39:58] No, but, like, it's a kind of, like, knowingly B-level genre movie that I am programmed to respond to anyway.

[1:40:08] But this is a fun version of that.

Griffin Newman

[1:40:10] Totally.

[1:40:10] And I think, like, sort of parallel to what you're saying, it's one of the reasons I for so long would always argue the value of the, you know, annual January, February Liam Neeson action film.

[1:40:23] Because I was like, these are the only movies that are disconnected from any fucking cinematic universe.

[1:40:29] Even the one series he has taken is clearly making it up as it goes along.

[1:40:34] And they're just, like, so in control and, like, full ownership of what they are and not trying to be what they aren't.

[1:40:42] And, like, living in the beautiful space of just, like, this is just, like, it's a $20 million action movie that comes out in the winter.

[1:40:49] And so rarely do we get a film like that that also is a sci-fi film or, you know, has special effects or is based off intellectual property.

[1:41:00] Because the second those elements get involved, they're like, this has to be a four-quadrant start of a larger franchise.

[1:41:06] And it feels like this movie just backed away from all of that.

[1:41:10] Whether by design or whether by just sort of a lack of conviction at the studio level that this could lead to any sequels.

[1:41:18] It's like this movie is just so fully what it is.

Elliott Kalan

[1:41:22] And I would say that it's the Liam Neeson parallel also.

[1:41:26] Like, how many other films are dealing with the things that the elderly have to face than Liam Neeson's movies or The Farewell?

[1:41:33] That's pretty much it.

[1:41:33] Yeah.

[1:41:34] It's like last year, if you wanted to see a movie about the elderly, it was just The Commuter or The Farewell.

[1:41:37] That's all you got.

Dan McCoy

[1:41:38] It really deals with, like, how many cuts an old man needs to get over a fence.

Elliott Kalan

[1:41:42] To make it look like he's jumping over a fence.

[1:41:45] Yeah, that's it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:41:46] Yeah, I mean, so many, like, if I want an action fix and it isn't going to be, like, a big budget franchise movie, I have to go to, like, VOD Scott Adkins action movies.

[1:41:59] Yes.

[1:41:59] So this is, yeah, this is pretty nice.

Griffin Newman

[1:42:01] The movie this reminds me of the most, now that you've pulled out Scott Adkins, Stuart, is, I think it's the fourth Universal Soldier movie.

[1:42:11] Yeah, yeah, hell yeah.

[1:42:12] Universal Soldier, Day of Reckoning, which is also about a sort of guy who is reprogrammed over and over again to think that he is acting out a sort of self-righteous mission, but is actually just, like, fulfilling everyone else's desires.

S5

[1:42:26] Welcome back to Fireside Chat on KMAX.

Stuart Wellington

[1:42:35] With me in studio to take your calls is the dopest duo on the West Coast, Oliver Wong and Morgan Rhodes.

Elliott Kalan

[1:42:42] Go ahead, caller.

Dan McCoy

[1:42:43] Hey, I'm looking for a music podcast that's insightful and thoughtful, but, like, also helps me discover artists and albums that I've never heard of.

Elliott Kalan

[1:42:51] Yeah, man, sounds like you need to listen to Heat Rocks.

[1:42:53] Every week, myself and I'm Morgan Rhodes and my co-host here, Oliver Wong, talk to influential guests about a canonical album that has changed their lives.

Stuart Wellington

[1:43:03] Guests like Moby, Open Mic Eagle, talk about albums by Prince, Joni Mitchell, and so much more.

Dan McCoy

[1:43:09] Yo, what's that show called again?

[1:43:11] Heat Rocks.

S5

[1:43:11] Deep dives into hot records.

Dan McCoy

[1:43:14] Every Thursday on Maximum Fun.

S5

[1:43:18] Hello, this is Amy Mann.

Dan McCoy

[1:43:19] And I'm Ted Leo.

[1:43:20] And we have a podcast called The Art of Process.

Stuart Wellington

[1:43:23] We've been lucky enough over the past year to talk to some of our friends and acquaintances from across the creative spectrum to find out how they actually work.

Griffin Newman

[1:43:30] And so I have to write material that makes sense and makes people laugh.

[1:43:33] I also have to think about what I'm saying to people.

Stuart Wellington

[1:43:37] If I kick your ass, I'll make you famous.

Griffin Newman

[1:43:39] The fight to get LGBTQ representation in the show.

[1:43:43] We weirdly don't know as many musicians as you would expect.

Stuart Wellington

[1:43:46] I really just became a political speechwriter by accident.

Griffin Newman

[1:43:48] Realizing that I have accidentally, uh, pulled my pants down.

Dan McCoy

[1:43:52] Listen and subscribe at MaximumFun.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

Stuart Wellington

[1:43:57] It's like if the guinea pig was complicit in helping the scientist.

Dan McCoy

[1:44:03] The Flophouse is sponsored in part by Squarespace.

[1:44:08] Aww.

[1:44:08] Hey, everyone.

[1:44:09] We're all at home.

[1:44:11] You know, well, not all of us.

[1:44:12] Some of us are forced to work and, uh, my hearts are with you if you're, uh, one of them.

[1:44:16] I said hearts.

[1:44:17] My multiple hearts.

[1:44:19] Uh, uh, this ad read is going great.

[1:44:22] But if you're, if you are stuck at home.

Elliott Kalan

[1:44:24] Dan, how did this turn into a solo ad read when we're all here?

Dan McCoy

[1:44:27] But if you are stuck at home, maybe it's time to start your own website.

[1:44:30] You know, you can turn your cool idea into something we can all enjoy on the internet.

[1:44:35] Blog or publish content.

[1:44:37] Sell products and services of all kinds.

[1:44:40] And much, much more.

[1:44:42] Squarespace allows you to do this by giving you beautiful, customizable templates created by world-class designers.

[1:44:49] Everything is optimized for mobile right out of the box.

[1:44:52] People can look at it on their phones, their tablets, their whatchamacallit.

[1:44:55] It's a new way to buy domains and choose from over 200 extensions.

[1:45:00] Free and secure hosting.

[1:45:02] Hey, head to squarespace.com slash flop for a free trial.

[1:45:08] And when you're ready to launch, use the offer code flop to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

Elliott Kalan

[1:45:16] Now, Dan, I had a question.

[1:45:17] So I have a website idea and I was wondering if Squarespace could help me with it.

Dan McCoy

[1:45:22] You know, I thought you might have this question.

[1:45:24] And I think the answer is probably yes.

[1:45:27] But why don't you expound upon it at length?

Elliott Kalan

[1:45:29] So the technology, I'm just not sure if it's there yet.

[1:45:31] I was so inspired by this movie, I wanted to start a website called Brainspace.

[1:45:34] Brainspace, where with Brainspace, we've got customizable templates so that you can change the memories, fantasies, and also vengeances of individual people.

[1:45:43] Maybe yourself, maybe someone else.

[1:45:45] I was just so impressed in the movie at how easy it was to just go into Vin Diesel's memory and change what things looked like.

[1:45:51] Add a machete here, change a guy's face to that.

[1:45:54] And I want to make that kind of thing available to people for a reasonable price.

[1:45:56] So it's called Brainspace.net.

[1:45:58] Brainspace.com, of course, was taken by my previous website where it was places to put your brain if you're not using it.

[1:46:05] It's like a storage space for your brain.

[1:46:07] Didn't go great.

[1:46:08] How did that go?

[1:46:09] A lot of people paid the deposit and then did not pay the fees for the monthly rate.

[1:46:14] And we end up having to throw a lot of brains out, you know, just in the garbage.

[1:46:18] It's in the contract.

[1:46:19] But so Brainspace.net, of course, would be like, hey, go into someone's brain and like,

[1:46:24] I want things to be able to scale from dreams to memories.

[1:46:29] I want 24-hour customer service and templates.

[1:46:32] Do you think they could help me set that up?

Dan McCoy

[1:46:34] I think they could.

[1:46:36] I'm distracted by it.

[1:46:37] I know it was just a throwaway gag, but I am still enjoying how casually horrifying your previous website was.

[1:46:44] Oh, Brainspace.com?

[1:46:45] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:46:46] I mean, to be fair, it was the website for a physical storage space for brains.

[1:46:51] Because, you know what, have you ever heard someone say, hey, this movie, like Bloodshot, just check your brain at the door?

[1:46:56] Sure.

[1:46:56] Where are you putting your brain when you're checking it?

[1:46:58] Come on.

[1:46:58] That's a good point.

[1:46:59] You're supposed to hold it in your hands the whole time?

[1:47:01] That's where your popcorn goes, in your hands.

[1:47:03] And then eventually in your mouth.

Stuart Wellington

[1:47:04] It says specifically at the door, so you wouldn't do that.

Elliott Kalan

[1:47:07] Yeah, yeah, but where at the door?

[1:47:07] I've been to movie theaters.

[1:47:08] There's not like a bucket you can just put your brain in.

[1:47:10] Yeah, that's true.

[1:47:11] Where am I supposed to, I'm just supposed to leave it on the floor where it's going to get, you know, fuzz all over it?

Dan McCoy

[1:47:14] Or in that box with all the 3D glasses.

Elliott Kalan

[1:47:18] Exactly.

[1:47:18] Someone reaches in to get some 3D glasses so they can see a movie the way it's meant to be seen, right in your face, coming at you.

[1:47:23] And they come out with a brain in their hands, and worse yet, it's your brain?

[1:47:26] Nobody wants that.

[1:47:27] That's a nightmare for them and for you.

[1:47:29] Because now they've got to figure out where this brain goes.

[1:47:31] Or worst case scenario, they just throw it away.

[1:47:33] And you come back from the movie, and you're like, oh, that was great.

[1:47:36] I really enjoyed Jingle All the Way.

[1:47:37] And you get into the bucket, and your brain's not there.

[1:47:40] And it's like, where to put my brain?

[1:47:41] Now I've got to find it.

[1:47:42] Oh, man.

[1:47:43] So Brainspace.com was really a storage space so that you could have a place where you knew your brain was.

[1:47:48] But a lot of people, we'd take the brain.

[1:47:50] They'd pay their deposit.

[1:47:51] We'd remove the brain.

[1:47:52] And then, you know, put them in a cab and send them off their way.

[1:47:56] And we'd never get the check in the mail for the first month's rents.

Stuart Wellington

[1:47:59] You'd be like, I'm putting you in a cab.

[1:48:01] Where do you live?

[1:48:02] I don't remember.

[1:48:03] Ugh.

[1:48:04] All this again.

Elliott Kalan

[1:48:05] Yeah, yeah.

[1:48:06] And so, anyway.

[1:48:08] Speaking of which, do you guys need any brains?

Dan McCoy

[1:48:12] Like for eating?

Elliott Kalan

[1:48:14] Hey, it's not my job to tell you what to do with them.

[1:48:17] Or even to ask what you do with them.

[1:48:18] I'm just saying I've got a surplus of a certain product, human brains.

[1:48:21] And I was wondering if you guys had to use for it.

Dan McCoy

[1:48:24] I mean, you know, normally I'd say yes.

[1:48:26] But at this time of scarcity, you know, send them on over.

Elliott Kalan

[1:48:31] Okay, because otherwise I'm just going to have to use my other website, spacebrain.com.

[1:48:34] That's where we fire brains into space.

[1:48:36] We don't have rocket ships, per se.

[1:48:38] It's more of a catapult.

[1:48:40] And we never see them again.

[1:48:41] So we just kind of assume that they leave the atmosphere and enter probably low orbital space.

[1:48:46] We won't find out for a while until NASA tells us their brains.

Stuart Wellington

[1:48:50] Landing in your neighbor's yard or something.

Elliott Kalan

[1:48:52] It seems likely.

[1:48:53] He definitely said he wanted to talk to me about something.

[1:48:55] I've been kind of dodging him for a couple weeks.

Dan McCoy

[1:48:57] Now, Griffin, you are an expert improviser.

[1:49:00] What would you say about Elliot's technique?

[1:49:01] How do you...

Griffin Newman

[1:49:03] I don't know about expert.

[1:49:06] I'm loving it.

[1:49:07] I'm all the way in.

[1:49:09] And speaking of improv, look, I know this episode's running long.

[1:49:13] I tend to be verbose.

[1:49:14] And I seem to make all podcasts longer when I guest on them.

[1:49:18] I hope you guys don't mind the arrogance.

[1:49:20] But I did come prepared with my own sponsorship, if that's fine.

[1:49:24] I'd like to do a quick ad.

[1:49:25] Oh, sure.

[1:49:25] If that's okay.

Elliott Kalan

[1:49:26] At least we can do for your being with us.

[1:49:29] Sure.

[1:49:29] Oh, of course.

Griffin Newman

[1:49:30] So this is my sponsorship.

[1:49:31] It is the official Bloodshot action figure.

[1:49:34] Let me unblur my camera here.

[1:49:37] Oh, wow.

[1:49:38] But this is...

[1:49:39] It looks like Bloodshot, the comic book character.

[1:49:43] But it very much has Vin Diesel's face, despite him never looking like this in the movie.

[1:49:47] I bought this two months before seeing the film.

[1:49:51] I have just had this around my apartment.

[1:49:55] And this was manufactured by Todd McFarlane, another 90s comic edginess luminary.

[1:50:02] So I like that the...

Stuart Wellington

[1:50:03] Oh, you'd think you'd have people manufacture it for you.

[1:50:06] No, no.

[1:50:06] He makes them at home.

Griffin Newman

[1:50:07] He makes them at home.

[1:50:08] I have a feeling he's probably about to lose a lot of money on this.

[1:50:12] So I want to just advertise them, tell people to go out.

[1:50:16] It's the one reason to break self-quarantine, to leave your house and go out and buy an American

[1:50:21] Bloodshot action figure.

[1:50:23] And Dan, to answer your earlier question about whether Bloodshot in the comics uses guns or just nanite punches people,

[1:50:30] of course, Bloodshot comes with a giant knife.

[1:50:34] So you can nanite stab.

[1:50:37] That's my ad read.

Stuart Wellington

[1:50:39] Okay, great.

[1:50:41] Help prevent McFarlane from taking a bath on that one.

[1:50:43] Look, Todd McFarlane already has...

Elliott Kalan

[1:50:45] He wishes he had that money he spent on Mark McGuire's home run ball.

[1:50:48] You gotta help him.

[1:50:51] You gotta help him have the money so we can waste it on more stuff.

[1:50:54] He needs to buy more balls, folks.

Dan McCoy

[1:50:57] I took a photo of Griffin holding up the Bloodshot action figure.

[1:51:01] This is the one time I'm gonna tell people to tweet at me if I make a mistake.

[1:51:06] Tweet at me if I've forgotten to post this on the Instagram and Twitter feeds once this episode drops.

[1:51:12] And I'll remember to get it off my phone and onto the internet so you can all enjoy this action figure.

[1:51:18] But now let's move on to letters from listeners.

[1:51:24] Listeners like you.

[1:51:26] Anyway.

[1:51:28] This first one...

[1:51:29] Yeah, we do have fun, Dan.

[1:51:31] That's the kind of devil-may-care attitude that I bring to the show.

[1:51:38] Jen, last name withheld, writes...

[1:51:40] Oh, hey.

[1:51:41] Hi, Peaches.

[1:51:42] Yesterday I got offered my dream job.

[1:51:45] I'm simultaneously incredibly excited about it while also fighting the nauseous feeling that I don't deserve it and or am going to fail at it.

[1:51:54] You've all had some pretty amazing jobs in your time while also being pretty open about mental health.

[1:51:59] So my question to you is, what have you done to deal with feelings of imposter syndrome?

[1:52:05] Thanks for all you do, Jen.

[1:52:06] Last name withheld.

[1:52:10] I mean, like, I know that it took me multiple years to feel comfortable at The Daily Show as a writer.

[1:52:20] And some of that was just learning that, like, the whole thing doesn't necessarily depend on me.

[1:52:27] Like, any organization you're in, like, you have to realize that you're in it together.

[1:52:33] And so that takes a little of the, like, stress that might hurt yourself off of it.

[1:52:38] But you also just have to, like...

[1:52:41] This is going to sound like a platitude, but you can't worry so much about meeting others' expectations of you.

[1:52:47] You have to worry about, like, what you can control.

[1:52:50] You can't control what they think of you.

[1:52:52] You can control the work that you put in, which will sort of help you feel good about yourself if you feel good about your own work and can take pride in your own work.

Elliott Kalan

[1:53:03] Well, to add on to that is that remember that their expectations for you...

[1:53:08] I don't know what the job is, but congratulations on getting it.

[1:53:10] That's fantastic.

[1:53:11] Like, Dan was saying, you're probably part of a team.

[1:53:14] Even Bloodshot was part of a team, even though the business really did seem to rely on his work mostly.

[1:53:20] Yeah, yeah.

[1:53:20] If he failed, then the whole operation was going to fall apart, which is not a great way to build a business, that it relies on one person who you have to brainwash to do the job.

[1:53:28] But, you know, if you are part of a team, then, like, you don't have to be 100% every day.

[1:53:34] The best is that you try to get as close to working as hard as you can to do your job, but also to remember that, like, they want you to succeed.

[1:53:41] If they gave you that job, they think you can do that job.

[1:53:44] Yeah.

[1:53:44] You're not an imposter to them.

[1:53:46] You are someone who is starting out doing a job.

[1:53:48] And so they probably understand that you're not going to be perfect right off the bat.

[1:53:53] It takes time.

[1:53:53] I remember when I started as a writer at The Daily Show, I already worked there for a number of years.

[1:53:58] And so I was like, I know this place.

[1:53:59] I'm going to hit it out of the park instantly.

[1:54:01] And it took me, like, a year until I was consistently doing well.

[1:54:05] And they knew that.

[1:54:06] And they were like, I'm sure in their mind, it was like, we're hiring him because we know he can do this job.

[1:54:11] But we don't expect him to be the best at this job immediately.

[1:54:15] That's just not how anything works.

Dan McCoy

[1:54:17] What Elliot just said reminded me of something that has helped me when it comes to performing.

[1:54:21] But I think it comes to just regular work as well.

[1:54:25] I always think of that scene in The Simpsons where Lisa has that dream where she's performing on stage and everyone is booing.

Elliott Kalan

[1:54:34] It's her and Art Garfunkel and all the other sidekicks.

Dan McCoy

[1:54:37] And then she says to herself, why would they come just to boo us?

[1:54:41] And I think of that whenever I have to go on stage for a live show for the podcast or whatever.

[1:54:46] I'm just like, they're not going to come just to boo us.

[1:54:48] If they came, they want us to succeed, like Elliot said.

[1:54:52] Your audience wants you to succeed.

Elliott Kalan

[1:54:53] Your bosses want you to succeed.

[1:54:55] And the situation that they've put you in and they're very aware of it is this is a person that we feel can do this job.

[1:55:01] And they are learning how to do this job.

[1:55:03] And they've just started.

[1:55:04] And they know that and you know that because you are not an imposter.

[1:55:06] You are a person who is starting a job.

[1:55:08] And that's a real thing that you are.

Stuart Wellington

[1:55:09] Only your enemies and jealous friends want you to fail.

Elliott Kalan

[1:55:14] And unless you got the job under false pretenses.

[1:55:16] Like if this is catch me if you can, then you should have imposter syndrome because you're pretending to be a doctor and you're not one.

[1:55:21] And that's terrible.

[1:55:22] My guess is that you went in there under true pretenses and they know it.

[1:55:27] Everybody's aware of the deal that you are starting this job and you're going to do great as long as you try your best and learn it.

[1:55:32] You know, work as hard as you can.

Stuart Wellington

[1:55:34] That's why it's called imposter syndrome.

[1:55:38] I thought it was you have to convince your loved one to shoot the imposter of you instead of you because they're evil and you're good.

Dan McCoy

[1:55:46] I mean, in that case, you just look for the goatee, Stuart.

[1:55:49] It's pretty easy.

[1:55:50] No, but what if you already have a goatee?

[1:55:52] Oh, that's...

[1:55:53] Yeah, if you're Kevin Smith, you're screwed.

[1:55:54] No one knows if you're the evil Kevin Smith or just regular Kevin Smith.

[1:55:58] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:56:00] Affable stoner Kevin Smith.

[1:56:02] I imagine that would be one of those situations where Kevin Smith would be like, shoot him.

[1:56:06] I'm the one in the bathrobe.

Griffin Newman

[1:56:08] I feel imposter syndrome with literally everything I do in my entire life.

[1:56:14] But as someone who has had a largely unsuccessful career working with people who are successful at different times,

[1:56:22] the biggest common thread I have found is everyone who I respect and especially respect more after I've worked with them and see how they work also feels imposter syndrome.

[1:56:33] And everyone I know who is completely certain that they know what they're doing tends to be pretty lazy and hacky at their job.

Elliott Kalan

[1:56:41] In creative fields, at least, I have found that to be the case.

[1:56:45] Well, who is the person who has the least amount of imposter syndrome is the president.

[1:56:49] And he is the worst at his job and thinks he's the best.

[1:56:52] And, like, that's not what you want to be.

Griffin Newman

[1:56:55] Right.

[1:56:55] So I think you three all offered really good lessons about how you should learn to believe in yourself a little more.

[1:57:01] But also, it is important to have a little bit of a fear that you might be an imposter.

Dan McCoy

[1:57:07] Yeah, yeah.

[1:57:09] There's actually been psychological tests on this.

[1:57:11] Like, people who think that they have imposter syndrome tend to be better than their jobs than the people who have this blind faith in themselves.

Elliott Kalan

[1:57:17] There's a thing that David Bowie said that I only know about because I think it was the moment of Zen on The Daily Show after he died,

[1:57:23] because it's not like I know everything about David Bowie,

[1:57:25] where he's talking about how when he was working on something and he felt really kind of frightened and unsure of himself,

[1:57:31] when it felt like he had gone too far into the ocean and couldn't feel the ground beneath his feet,

[1:57:34] that's when he did his best work and that's when he did his most exciting work.

[1:57:37] Because he was kind of – he didn't know what he was going to do and he was afraid of it.

[1:57:41] And, like, I've certainly found in my career I do better work when I am unsure of myself and have to work to prove myself and really put the effort in

[1:57:50] than when I'm like, oh, yeah, I can do this.

[1:57:52] This is fine.

[1:57:52] Whatever.

[1:57:53] And I don't put in the work and it comes out fine.

[1:57:55] So I think if there's a way for you to – instead of running from that feeling to kind of accept it and use it to help motivate yourself, that's a good thing.

[1:58:04] And if it locks you up and makes you freeze, then it's not a good thing.

[1:58:07] And you should just remind yourself, like, everyone knows who you are.

[1:58:11] That's a good thing.

[1:58:12] You're not fooling anybody because there's nothing to fool about and you're going to do fine.

Griffin Newman

[1:58:16] If I can throw out a 30-second specific – oh, sorry.

[1:58:20] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:58:21] If I can throw out a 30-second specific story, one of my earliest jobs was playing a personal assistant to Carla Gugino on a very unsuccessful TV show.

[1:58:30] And she's one of those people who I think is just, like, total pro, good in everything she does, acts in all different types of things, different size roles.

[1:58:38] It's just, like, consummate professional actor to me.

Elliott Kalan

[1:58:42] Flophouse listeners know I have no specific opinions about Carla Gugino one way or another.

[1:58:46] Firmly established.

Griffin Newman

[1:58:49] She's in no way my deepest crush of all living actresses.

[1:58:52] But anyway.

[1:58:53] She rules, and I will say working with her only deepened my crush for her as well.

[1:58:58] But we were on set, and it was the last episode, what would turn to be the last episode of this thing ever.

[1:59:04] And she was saying, like, I have no idea what I'm going to do when this show is done.

[1:59:08] I don't know if I'm ever going to work again.

[1:59:09] And I was like, you're Carla Gugino.

[1:59:11] You're, like, you do 18 things a year.

[1:59:15] I, like, I can't believe you wouldn't think that clearly some other things are going to come along.

[1:59:20] And she said to me, like, I just had this moment.

[1:59:23] I remember my first big job when I was a kid was working on a movie where I played Donald Sutherland's daughter.

[1:59:30] And on the last day of filming, he said to me, and then this wraps, and I don't know if I ever work again.

[1:59:35] And I couldn't believe that Donald Sutherland didn't know that he was going to work again.

[1:59:40] And I now realize that I feel the same way.

[1:59:45] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:59:47] Elliot, do you need to do any family stuff?

[1:59:50] I saw one of your children come in behind you as if we were in that viral video of the newscaster.

Elliott Kalan

[1:59:56] It was very funny from my point of view.

[1:59:59] My, it was my younger son and my wife bursting at the same time and then her pulling him away.

[2:00:05] Yeah.

[2:00:06] It was a pretty good recreation of that.

[2:00:09] It was really funny.

[2:00:10] It was great.

[2:00:10] It just means he's up from his nap.

[2:00:12] And he's at the point in his life where whichever parent he's with is not the one he wants to be with.

[2:00:17] He wants to be with the other one.

[2:00:18] He's got FOMO.

[2:00:20] Yeah, exactly.

[2:00:21] That's fear of momming him.

[2:00:23] Well, let's, we'll try and.

[2:00:25] Father or mom.

[2:00:25] Oh, no.

[2:00:26] That's FOMO.

Dan McCoy

[2:00:28] We'll try and keep the speed up with the rest of the show then so you can go comfort Gabriel.

Elliott Kalan

[2:00:35] So I can get back to my family who I love.

Dan McCoy

[2:00:38] I mean, some would argue that the podcast is a great source of semi-reliable income during this time of uncertainty.

[2:00:47] But.

Elliott Kalan

[2:00:47] I mean, it still doesn't trump love.

[2:00:51] You're right, Dan.

[2:00:52] I should put the money over my family.

[2:00:55] And then shout and then rain it down on them.

Dan McCoy

[2:00:58] Let's see here.

[2:00:59] John, last name without rights, our second and final letter of the show.

[2:01:03] Dear Floppers, I'm writing about your episode on Mortal Engines.

[2:01:08] On it, Elliot heckled the movie writers for picking stupid names for its characters, which hit home as our daughter is named Hester.

[2:01:16] We named our daughter Hester.

[2:01:18] Ooh.

[2:01:21] Wow.

[2:01:22] I like Hester.

[2:01:24] No, no, no.

[2:01:24] This is everyone going like, ooh, I can't believe Elliot did that.

[2:01:28] Ooh.

[2:01:28] Okay.

[2:01:29] We named her daughter Hester because we enjoyed the name and the nice literary tie-in to the Scarlet Letter.

[2:01:34] When we saw that Mortal Engines was coming out with a lead protagonist named Hester, we were afraid it would be a hit.

[2:01:42] And everyone would think that we named her after it.

[2:01:45] Thankfully, it was as unpopular as it was terrible.

[2:01:48] My question is, what other times has a movie ruined a name for you that would have been otherwise nice to use?

[2:01:55] Keep Floppin' John.

[2:01:57] Elliot, I'm pretty sure you have opinions about names and movies.

Elliott Kalan

[2:02:00] Well, I don't have a direct answer for his question, but I would say that my life, being named Elliot, which I don't know if the letter writer is available,

[2:02:08] but it was also the name of the main character of what was at one point the biggest movie in the history of movies in the world.

[2:02:15] That certainly has been a minor cross for me to bear through my life.

[2:02:19] And I have to say that as much as I love that movie, that movie, of course, being Pete's Dragon, in which the dragon is named Elliot.

[2:02:28] No, but that E.T. came out when I was, I think, half a year old.

[2:02:33] So it was my entire life that's been the go-to point people have for the name Elliot.

[2:02:38] But at the same time, and it was really horrible because every time I'd meet someone, they'd go, Elliot.

[2:02:43] Yeah, it's a specific way of saying the name.

[2:02:46] But I have to admit that I got through it, and now I never get that from anybody.

[2:02:53] And it makes me a little sad now that E.T. has, I guess, slipped so far off the popular consciousness that when people hear my name, they're like, hey, nice to meet you.

[2:03:00] And they don't even make the joke.

[2:03:03] I mean, it might be partly because you're interacting mostly with adults now.

[2:03:07] I would get it from adults all the time until like a few years ago.

[2:03:11] But Mr. Jason Jones of The Daily Show with Jon Stewart would do it every time we had a conversation, even after I'd known him for years.

Dan McCoy

[2:03:18] Well, he's kind of a jerk.

Elliott Kalan

[2:03:20] Well, he's just a guy that he needles people.

[2:03:22] A lovable jerk.

[2:03:23] But, yeah, so I would say I think it's good for your name to be, your child's name, to be something that is associated with them and not already associated with something else.

[2:03:35] But on the other hand, I lived through it.

[2:03:37] And look at me.

[2:03:38] Now I'm the most famous Elliot in the world.

[2:03:40] Probably, right?

Griffin Newman

[2:03:41] I will say also I still on a daily basis have to deal with both Gryffindor and Newman from Seinfeld.

[2:03:49] I'm getting it from both angles.

[2:03:51] Oh, yeah.

[2:03:52] Oh, yeah.

[2:03:53] That's terrible.

[2:03:53] So I used to get Cato Kaelin for Elliot Kaelin.

Elliott Kalan

[2:03:56] And it was like – and luckily that's not something that happens anymore.

[2:03:59] But, yeah, it's bad when both your names are – so there was a guy that I used to work with that – I think Dan still works with it.

[2:04:05] He's still at The Daily Show, right?

[2:04:06] A guy whose last name was Blog.

[2:04:08] And he was like, yeah, I used to just get made fun of for having a weird name.

[2:04:11] But now I get made fun of for having a name that's a word.

[2:04:13] Wonderful.

[2:04:14] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[2:04:15] I get Stewie from Family Guy or the Stewart character from the sketches on the hit Mad TV television show, which is great.

[2:04:26] Wow.

[2:04:27] Because when people bring up those references, I'm like, great.

[2:04:29] I don't have to talk to you at all.

[2:04:30] You have no sense of humor, person.

[2:04:32] Very strange.

[2:04:33] And I also – I have a friend named Junior.

[2:04:37] And I am an enormous asshole because I can't not say it with a Sean Connery accent.

[2:04:43] I'm such a fucking dick.

Griffin Newman

[2:04:45] Yeah.

[2:04:46] I will say, though, I mean, like, I see a silver lining in what the letter writer said because the only sort of bright side to Bloodshot bombing theatrically is that I can get away with naming my future son Bloodshot Newman.

[2:05:03] The name is now clear.

[2:05:04] And no one will think that's weird.

[2:05:05] No.

Dan McCoy

[2:05:06] And he has to be a piano player in a tavern.

[2:05:11] Oh, of course.

Elliott Kalan

[2:05:13] And I want to make it clear to the letter writer that I think Hester is a very nice name in real life.

[2:05:18] I just thought it's one of those names where when you give it to a character in a fantasy story, you're like, oh, okay.

[2:05:23] That's the way it's going to be.

[2:05:24] Like, if I met someone named – like, there's an actress who's on the show Foils War whose first name is Honeysuckle.

[2:05:31] And it's like, okay, great.

[2:05:33] But if I saw a movie and they were like, what's your name?

[2:05:35] Oh, I'm Honeysuckle.

[2:05:36] I'd be like, forget it.

[2:05:37] Get out of here.

[2:05:39] Like, in a fictional world, you're just like, I'm going to take – I'm going to – I can take less whimsy.

[2:05:46] I don't know.

[2:05:47] No, understandable.

Dan McCoy

[2:05:48] Okay.

[2:05:49] Well, let's – I mean, we all liked Bloodshot.

[2:05:52] But normally, our recommendation section is sort of a don't watch that, watch this sort of thing.

[2:05:58] But, you know, if you are one of the many people who are spending more time indoors these days, maybe you've got time to watch both.

[2:06:06] Bloodshot and whatever nonsense we'll recommend.

[2:06:10] I just rewatched a movie that I know I saw as a child but I've forgotten everything about it so it was new to me, which was Funny Face, the Audrey Hepburn, Fred Astaire movie.

[2:06:24] Now, I'm not going to make – I'm going to present the counter-argument to Funny Face first and then present the pro-argument.

[2:06:31] The counter-argument is that Fred Astaire was 30 years older than Audrey Hepburn, which plays very strangely, although I did some research.

[2:06:42] Apparently, she was a supporter of him for the role.

[2:06:45] And also, Fred Astaire always seems so sexless that it's not as creepy as it might be with a different actor.

[2:06:52] But it is not the greatest.

[2:06:53] And also, the central romantic conflict is Fred Astaire getting immediately possessive of Audrey Hepburn once they are briefly together.

[2:07:03] And the movie makes a feint at presenting his possessive behavior as a bad thing before showing that the guy that Audrey Hepburn was talking to is a cad and possible assaulter.

[2:07:17] So it excuses his behavior.

[2:07:19] The pro case is that it's funny.

[2:07:25] It's colorful.

[2:07:27] It's got the George Gershwin music.

[2:07:29] If you want to hear what Audrey Hepburn sounds like singing, don't go to My Fair Lady where she's dubbed.

[2:07:35] Go to this movie.

[2:07:37] She was a trained ballerina, and she does some dance numbers that are pretty impressive when you don't think of Audrey Hepburn in that light.

[2:07:46] Also, Audrey Hepburn and Fred Astaire, two of the most charismatic people ever to be on movie screens.

[2:07:53] And also, Kay Thompson, the third lead in it.

[2:07:58] I did some research on her.

[2:07:59] She was the coach for a bunch of big Hollywood stars like Judy Garland and Fred Astaire.

[2:08:06] Sorry, and Frank Sinatra.

[2:08:08] But she only had four film roles, and this was by far the biggest.

[2:08:13] And she all but steals the movie.

[2:08:16] And she wrote Eloise, right?

[2:08:17] She wrote Eloise.

[2:08:18] That's the other weird thing about her.

[2:08:20] She had an amazing career.

[2:08:22] Look her up.

[2:08:24] But it's just a fun, light movie.

[2:08:27] In these trying times, it was exactly what I needed to see at that time.

[2:08:31] So, funny face.

[2:08:33] Cool.

[2:08:34] Who wants to go next?

Stuart Wellington

[2:08:36] I'll jump in.

[2:08:37] I'm going to recommend a movie that is a bit of a selfish recommendation.

[2:08:42] But I am recommending a documentary called Death by Metal.

[2:08:46] It is a documentary about the heavy metal band Death and the frontman Chuck Schuldner.

[2:08:55] And kind of tracks his...

[2:08:56] It's kind of like a VH1 behind the music for this extreme heavy metal band.

[2:09:02] And the rise and eventual death of this kind of phenomenal heavy metal musician.

[2:09:10] They're one of my favorite bands.

[2:09:12] It's really interesting for me.

[2:09:14] And it's cool to see a bunch of these guys give interviews.

[2:09:17] These crusty old heavy metal dudes give interviews years after they were young, denim-clad maniacs making music in their parents' garage.

[2:09:29] And it includes interviews with Sean Reinhart, who passed away a few months ago, which is pretty sad.

[2:09:35] But it's one of my favorite bands, Death.

[2:09:37] And it's a pretty fun little documentary.

[2:09:39] It's on Amazon Prime.

Dan McCoy

[2:09:41] Now, you say that that's selfish.

[2:09:42] And you're saying that just because it is a thing that you like, Stuart?

Stuart Wellington

[2:09:47] Well, I say it's selfish because it's...

[2:09:49] I don't know how interesting it would be for people who are not interested in that specific sub-genre of extreme heavy metal.

[2:10:00] Like, death metal, you know, it's like eating spicy food.

[2:10:04] Like, it would be like eating a fucking ghost pepper first and not, like, working your way up.

[2:10:10] Like, it'll sound like garbage if you haven't listened to this sort of thing.

Elliott Kalan

[2:10:13] I guess you're saying it might not have the same wide interest as the usual Korean shock horror or direct-to-video ninja movies that you like to recommend.

Stuart Wellington

[2:10:24] That's true, yeah.

[2:10:26] It's more of a selective audience than, you know, the family features I usually recommend.

Dan McCoy

[2:10:33] Yeah, I mean, yeah, I just brought it up because I think that there's a certain level of, if you don't know us by now, of all of our recommendations.

[2:10:41] It can be assumed that if you like this kind of thing that Dan or Stuart Alley will like, maybe you'll like this other thing.

Elliott Kalan

[2:10:48] Speaking of, if you like this kind of...

[2:10:50] Oh, sorry, what did you say?

Griffin Newman

[2:10:51] No, I mean, you go first.

[2:10:52] I have a connection to what was just said, but it will still apply in a second.

Elliott Kalan

[2:10:56] Oh, then you go and then I'll go last.

[2:10:58] You go and then I'll go last.

Griffin Newman

[2:10:59] Well, if I can alley-oop off of what Stuart likes, I'm going to recommend a movie that by chance already came up in this conversation.

[2:11:09] Universal Soldier Day of Reckoning, the fourth Universal Soldier movie, the second direct-to-video one with Scott Adkins, King of VOD action.

[2:11:20] It is a movie that is very, very similar to Bloodshot in a lot of ways.

[2:11:25] In certain countries and on certain platforms, it seems to have been retitled Universal Soldier, A New Dimension now.

[2:11:32] So if you're looking for it, that's the same movie.

[2:11:35] But it's similarly about memories and someone who has sort of been programmed to be in an action movie.

[2:11:44] And is the kind of movie that you should be comparing Bloodshot to and not Iron Man.

[2:11:50] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[2:11:52] Yeah.

[2:11:52] And it also has a little bit of the same meta-commentary because it has Van Damme as this aging star and Dolph Lundgren as this aging guy, both of whom are like, Van Damme gives his best, like, Colonel Kurtz impression in this movie.

Elliott Kalan

[2:12:09] I'm going to recommend a movie that, similarly also to these, if you like the kinds of things that I like, then you might like it.

[2:12:15] I'm going to recommend, this is a Western called Doc from 1971.

[2:12:19] It's about Doc Holliday and is meant to be a kind of, like, gritty, anti-heroic retelling of the gunfight at the O.K. Corral.

[2:12:27] It stars Stacy Keach as Doc Holliday.

[2:12:30] Faye Dunaway plays Kate.

[2:12:32] And Harris Ulan plays Wyatt Earp.

[2:12:34] Harris Ulan you may remember best as the judge who put away the Scoleri brothers in Ghostbusters 2, among other things.

Stuart Wellington

[2:12:40] But he gave him the chair.

Elliott Kalan

[2:12:46] It's a real, like, it's a movie that I was not super familiar with.

[2:12:49] It's directed by Frank Perry, who directed, like, The Swimmer and Mommy Dearest and Diary of a Mad Housewife, this guy who had this very idiosyncratic career.

[2:12:59] And it was written by Pete Hamill, the, like, newspaper columnist and memoir writer.

[2:13:05] And it manages to sometimes be a little too, like, super grit for its own good and that characters call each other, like, bitch out of nowhere and stuff like that.

[2:13:14] But it's such a strangely, like, low-key and yet tense and at times very exciting and at times very, like, touching story about a guy who is now trapped in a life that he can't seem to get out of.

[2:13:31] And also the breakdown in a friendship between Doc Holliday and Wyatt Earp and things like that.

[2:13:35] And they're all really great in it.

[2:13:37] And I really liked it a lot.

[2:13:39] It's a movie that I was not familiar with before.

[2:13:42] And I went and walked away from it being like, oh, I'm surprised I haven't heard more about this.

[2:13:45] So that's Doc, starring Stacey Keech, Faye Dunaway, and, of course, Harris Ulan.

Stuart Wellington

[2:13:51] Cool.

[2:13:52] Four recommendations plus bloodshot.

[2:13:55] Yep.

Dan McCoy

[2:13:57] Okay.

[2:13:57] Well, this is the point in the podcast where we normally would just be like, you know, go out and spread the word of the Flophouse.

[2:14:02] Yes, but I think that at least for the duration of the pandemic, we want to more spread the message of take care of yourselves.

[2:14:11] If you're in a place where you have the emotional and or money resources to take care of others, we would encourage you to do that as well.

[2:14:21] And, you know, we're glad that we can provide whatever service we ever provide to anyone during this time.

[2:14:27] And we want you all to be well.

[2:14:32] And that's what I have to say about that.

[2:14:35] We got a lot of nodding from everyone else.

[2:14:38] A lot of empathetic nodding.

Stuart Wellington

[2:14:40] I mentioned before, but I've been pretty sick with symptoms matching the COVID-19.

[2:14:47] And I am feeling almost 100% better.

[2:14:51] And I feel very lucky that I've been able to isolate and get healthy again.

[2:14:56] Yeah.

[2:14:57] If anybody was worried about me.

Dan McCoy

[2:14:59] No, I feel very lucky that you have been able to get healthy again, Stuart.

[2:15:03] You could have found a new Stuart.

[2:15:05] No, I love you, Stuart.

Elliott Kalan

[2:15:07] I mean, Griffin seems to like a lot of the same stuff that you do.

[2:15:10] So I don't know.

Dan McCoy

[2:15:13] It's more of a Chew Elliot situation to have Griffin join them.

Elliott Kalan

[2:15:16] You mean heaven?

[2:15:17] I mean the definition of heaven on earth?

[2:15:19] Yeah, sure it is.

[2:15:21] I would never talk again.

[2:15:23] To all of our listeners, we hope you're healthy.

[2:15:25] We hope the people in your lives are healthy.

[2:15:27] If you're not doing well right now, we hope you are through it and feeling better soon.

[2:15:31] And what Dan said, do what you can to help other people.

[2:15:33] And otherwise, please take care of yourself.

[2:15:35] And as my friend Jenny Jaffe has said to me, let's not all, for any of the creative types

[2:15:42] listening out there, let's not all feel bad if at the end of this we haven't written the

[2:15:45] great American novel with this time we supposedly have on our hands.

[2:15:48] Job one is just taking care of ourselves and taking care of each other.

[2:15:51] And let's be good to ourselves.

Stuart Wellington

[2:15:52] While she's busy being on the fucking front page of Reddit, right?

Dan McCoy

[2:15:56] I do not have the focus to read a novel during this time, let alone write one.

[2:16:04] I mean, you've been doing a lot of dress-up, right?

[2:16:08] Elliot, you made fun of that earlier.

[2:16:09] I mean, that is the level of distraction I need during this.

Elliott Kalan

[2:16:16] I was only making fun of it in terms of that you sent us the letter questions this morning

[2:16:20] when I was like, oh, he seems to have a lot of time on his hands.

Dan McCoy

[2:16:24] Don't think that's a coronavirus thing.

[2:16:26] No, no.

Stuart Wellington

[2:16:28] Now that we have elected to not promote ourselves, Griffin, do you have anything you want to

[2:16:32] plug or promote?

Griffin Newman

[2:16:34] Yeah, I mean, I'm definitely going to plug taking care of yourself and taking care of

[2:16:38] others in this weird time.

[2:16:39] That's my primary plug.

[2:16:40] Oh, brave.

[2:16:41] I'm going to second that from all of you guys.

[2:16:44] What a hero.

[2:16:44] And then Blank Check Podcast, my podcast with David Sims, who's a critic for The Atlantic,

[2:16:50] which all three of you have been on.

[2:16:53] We discussed the E.J. Candidate remake.

Stuart Wellington

[2:16:56] Yeah.

[2:16:56] Yeah, it's the Cadillac and movie podcast.

Griffin Newman

[2:16:58] Oh, no.

[2:17:00] I don't actually don't know enough about cars to figure out what we are.

Elliott Kalan

[2:17:04] I feel like the Blank Check Podcast is kind of like the Flap Us if we knew what we were

[2:17:08] doing and put work into it.

[2:17:10] Like, if we were any good at this and also were better at it.

Dan McCoy

[2:17:14] But also, I think you can vaguely map our personalities onto the Blank Check personalities.

[2:17:19] Totally.

[2:17:20] So, if you like this show, you'd like that show as well.

Griffin Newman

[2:17:23] It was a shame our producer, Ben, was not there when you guys recorded.

[2:17:28] And that's a pretty clean mapping of three onto three.

[2:17:32] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[2:17:33] My only request is that listeners from this podcast, go listen to Blank Check Podcast,

[2:17:38] but come back and also listen to our show.

[2:17:40] You gotta listen to both.

[2:17:41] You gotta.

[2:17:41] Don't feel like your needs are being met just by the other one.

[2:17:44] Because I know what the feelings are.

Dan McCoy

[2:17:46] You know, pick the favorite one.

[2:17:47] You don't have to tell us which one you like better.

[2:17:50] We would prefer not.

[2:17:50] Keep it in your heart.

[2:17:50] But think of the other one as methadone.

Stuart Wellington

[2:17:53] Sure.

[2:17:54] Yeah.

[2:17:54] The one you like the best.

[2:17:55] No, just, you can fit both of them in your life.

[2:17:58] Just put them on two times speed and have your brain leak out of your nose when Elliot talks.

Griffin Newman

[2:18:02] You're not taking it to get high anymore.

[2:18:04] You're just taking it to stay even, you know?

[2:18:06] Yeah, yeah.

[2:18:06] Just to reach zero.

Stuart Wellington

[2:18:07] Just to reach level.

Griffin Newman

[2:18:08] I want to promote very relevant and topical.

[2:18:10] Thank you for reminding me, Dan.

[2:18:13] I'm doing a weekly Instagram live show with my younger sister called Meryl and Vin,

[2:18:20] where she picks a Meryl Streep movie and I pick a Vin Diesel movie,

[2:18:24] our two favorite movie stars respectively, and we compare them.

[2:18:27] So I'm doing that every Monday night at 9 p.m. Eastern Standard Time,

[2:18:31] but then it stays up online for, I think, 24 hours afterwards.

[2:18:36] What movies have you done so far?

[2:18:39] We've just started it.

[2:18:40] We did it.

[2:18:41] The first installment was Bloodshot versus Mamma Mia 2 Here We Go Again,

[2:18:46] but that was before we figured out how to save the video.

[2:18:49] So this remains my only record of Bloodshot opinions.

[2:18:53] So you guys have the exclusive.

[2:18:55] Oh, good.

[2:18:56] Oh, cool.

[2:18:56] That's a word we got scooped.

[2:18:57] Week two was Babylon AD versus The Hours.

Elliott Kalan

[2:19:02] Babylon AD, was that our last episode?

Griffin Newman

[2:19:05] That was our last episode.

[2:19:06] Really?

[2:19:06] Babylon Babies.

Elliott Kalan

[2:19:07] We recorded it and then somehow it disappeared.

Griffin Newman

[2:19:10] Well, that's pretty perfect because that movie pretty much doesn't exist.

Stuart Wellington

[2:19:16] Yeah.

[2:19:17] Yeah.

[2:19:18] I'm eager for you to do the A Man Apart, I don't know, Ricky and the Flash combo.

Griffin Newman

[2:19:23] I think Man Apart is going to be this week at the time that we're recording because that

[2:19:28] is Babylon AD, Man Apart, and Knock Around Guys are the only Vin Diesel movies I had not

[2:19:33] seen before.

[2:19:35] Oh, cool.

[2:19:35] So I'm trying to fill in the blind spots before I go into re-watching everything.

Dan McCoy

[2:19:39] I think I may have seen Knock Around Guys and remember nothing about it.

[2:19:44] As I think most of America feels about Knock Around Guys.

[2:19:48] Most of America saw Knock Around Guys and doesn't remember.

[2:19:51] That's why it was the single most profitable movie in the history of film.

[2:19:54] It was sent out with the census forms.

[2:19:57] A DVD of Knock Around Guys.

Elliott Kalan

[2:19:59] They said, please classify your ethnicity and how many people are in your household.

[2:20:03] What did you think about Knock Around Guys?

[2:20:05] Which of the Knock Around Guys do you identify with?

[2:20:08] It was a coupon the movie.

Dan McCoy

[2:20:11] All right.

[2:20:12] Well, thank you, Griffin, for being here.

[2:20:14] I think that we can say that this movie, or this movie, this podcast was 100% better having

[2:20:19] the world's most foremost and funniest Vin Diesel fan on to talk about it.

Griffin Newman

[2:20:24] My pleasure.

[2:20:25] And no title I will wear with more honor than the ones you just assigned.

Dan McCoy

[2:20:29] So, until next time, I've been Dan McCoy.

[2:20:34] I'm Stuart Wellington.

[2:20:35] I'm Elliot Kalin.

[2:20:38] And Griffin is looking...

[2:20:39] Oh, I didn't know I was supposed to say my name.

[2:20:41] I'm sorry.

[2:20:41] I'm Griffin Newman.

Griffin Newman

[2:20:43] Okay, bye.

[2:20:44] Bye.

[2:20:46] So long.

[2:20:46] Bye.

Elliott Kalan

[2:20:55] Bloodshot, yes.

[2:20:56] Now, Dan, something I do often is I have notes.

[2:20:58] I have a rundown of the episode on my computer, and I have the name of the movie on there.

[2:21:02] Bye.

Ep. #310 - Bloodshot

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