Ep. #332 - Primal

Dan McCoy

[0:00] On this episode, Cagemas has come again! We discuss Primal!

Elliott Kalan

[0:07] That's right, Flophouse fans, our sixth Kevin Durand movie, it's Durandica! It's a miracle!

[0:30] Hey everyone, and welcome to the Flophouse, I'm Dan McCoy.

Dan McCoy

[0:43] Hey, I'm Stuart Wellington.

Elliott Kalan

[0:45] I'm Elliot Kalin, and we've got a special guest today, right Stu?

Stuart Wellington

[0:49] We do, he's a comedian, he's a writer and author, he's a TV writer and EP and all kinds of stuff.

[0:57] And he's a podcaster, that's right, Josh Gundelman!

[1:02] Hello, thank you for having me.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05] Thanks so much for being here, Josh.

Dan McCoy

[1:07] Now Josh, you were known, widely, for being one of the nicest men in comedy.

[1:13] How do you feel about us compelling you to perhaps say some not nice things about this movie we watched?

S4

[1:21] I'm, well thank you, it's very kind of you to say that, and I'm excited to talk about this.

[1:26] I love Nicolas Cage, I love Cagemas on your show, I'm a Cagemas devotee, and so I just, I can't wait to talk about this good and bad.

[1:36] Just all discourse, valuable discourse.

Stuart Wellington

[1:39] Yeah, I believe when I was emailing with Josh, I was like, yeah, you can kind of pick any movie you want to talk about,

[1:46] or I guess you could be on the Cagemas episode, and I got an immediate response that just said, Cagemas!

S4

[1:53] I was so excited.

[1:54] As a Jewish person, I often felt growing up on the outside of my friend's Cagemas celebration.

[2:01] So as an adult, it's nice to be able to make it my own.

Elliott Kalan

[2:04] It's hard, and you know, with kids now, it's hard because they see all their friends celebrating Cagemas that same way,

[2:10] and you just forget how much you're bombarded as a kid with Cagemas.

[2:13] Even in schools, there's the Cagemas pageant, Cagemas carols, Cagemas cage, where they put the Jewish kids,

[2:20] so that they don't steal anyone's blood and make matzah out of it.

[2:24] It's just a rough time of year.

[2:25] That's the best matzah.

Dan McCoy

[2:25] Right.

[2:26] And, you know, Nicolas Cage comes by and gives all the Cagemen kids, you know, like white pythons and, you know, pyramid mortuaries, you know, as presents.

Stuart Wellington

[2:40] Yeah, first appearances of Superman, that sort of thing.

[2:43] And Mongolian Tyrannosaurus skulls, he has to return, yeah.

S4

[2:47] I was always asking my parents, why do we celebrate Jean-Claude Van Damme?

Elliott Kalan

[2:54] And they were like, it's eight nights of Jean-Claude.

[2:58] No, you see, he was only supposed to be able to do splits on a table, but he jumped and did a split on a kitchen counter.

[3:04] It was a miracle.

Dan McCoy

[3:05] He does so many splits, that guy.

Elliott Kalan

[3:08] He only had enough crotch for one split, but he did eight splits.

Dan McCoy

[3:12] I mean, it is the best way to show off that amazing butt.

[3:15] Oh, it is.

[3:15] Oh, my lord.

Elliott Kalan

[3:16] It is.

[3:16] Yeah, come on.

[3:17] So, and Dan, of course, speaking for the butt worshippers.

[3:21] That's his religion.

[3:23] Now, this, why, I guess, primal?

[3:28] That's the question our audience is asking right now.

Stuart Wellington

[3:31] Yeah, I mean, I feel like this is a year when there's been so many great Nicolas Cage movies have just poured down the pipeline.

[3:38] Why did we take out our panning pan, stick it into the river of Cagedmas movies, and pull out this one?

Dan McCoy

[3:45] I mean, I do think that we had, there were a lot of jujitsu partisans on Twitter, and I'm sure we will get to that.

[3:53] But at this moment, we were like, let's go with the one we can watch with our Hulu subscription rather than paying for jujitsu.

[4:02] So, that was the thing behind that one.

[4:04] And then, like, you know, the other movies he was in this year, like, I mean, people have been trying to get us to do Color Out of Space.

[4:10] And I'm like, what are you talking about?

[4:12] That is a great movie.

[4:13] I love Color Out of Space.

[4:15] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[4:16] I mean, I think it's because it has a big Nicolas Cage performance.

[4:20] And sometimes, you know, I don't want to speak ill of people, but sometimes people see a big Nicolas Cage performance, and they think it's a bad Nicolas Cage performance.

[4:30] And I'm like, no, no, no.

[4:32] No, no, no, no, no.

[4:33] No, no.

[4:34] That's a good Nicolas Cage performance.

S4

[4:37] Yeah.

[4:37] It's like going to Benihana and being like, just give me the food.

[4:41] It's like, no, no, no.

[4:41] That's not what you're coming here for.

Elliott Kalan

[4:43] It's like you might be at the wrong restaurant if that's what you're looking for, sir.

[4:47] Yeah.

[4:48] I love the idea that someone is just like, I just had a long flight.

[4:52] I just want to stop.

[4:53] I just checked into my hotel.

[4:54] What's the nearest restaurant?

[4:55] Benihana's?

[4:56] Okay, great.

[4:56] I'll try it.

[4:57] And he's like, why are you just flipping one shrimp at a time at me?

[5:00] I don't want it to go in your hat.

[5:02] Just give it to me.

[5:03] Come on.

[5:03] I'm so hungry.

[5:04] I'm so hungry now.

Dan McCoy

[5:06] It is almost as if dinner is the show right now, and that is not what I want, sir.

Elliott Kalan

[5:12] Let me just bang my fist on the table in anger.

[5:15] Oh, God.

[5:16] Oh, it's so hot.

[5:18] This table.

[5:18] It's like the table is a griddle.

[5:21] What's going on here?

Stuart Wellington

[5:22] I'll be taking my business to medieval times from now on.

Dan McCoy

[5:28] They have none of this shenanigans.

[5:33] Just mutton without fuss.

Elliott Kalan

[5:36] Just give me all I want is to sit at my table, eat a squab with my hands while I drink Pepsi

[5:43] out of a mug and not have to deal with any sort of drama.

Stuart Wellington

[5:49] So, kind of on the subject of medieval times, this movie begins in the rainforest in Brazil.

Elliott Kalan

[5:56] Okay.

[5:57] That's an interesting segue in that those two things are not related at all.

Stuart Wellington

[6:01] Well, the reason, here's the connection.

[6:04] If you go to a medieval times, there's a chance you'll see an exhibition of falconry.

[6:10] Falcons do not live in the rainforest, but other birds do.

Elliott Kalan

[6:14] Okay.

[6:15] That's a very, I mean, I feel like that is the equipment.

[6:17] You took a faucet and you shoved it in a pumpkin and you said, there, that works.

[6:21] Turn it on.

[6:22] And I'm like, okay, I'll go with it.

Stuart Wellington

[6:25] So, yeah.

[6:25] Movie begins.

[6:26] Smash cut.

[6:27] Rainforest Brazil exterior.

[6:30] Nicolas Cage playing a character named Frank Walsh.

S4

[6:34] Walsh.

[6:34] My second favorite Nicolas Cage character named Frank, after, of course, Frank Cadillac from

[6:39] the movie Next.

[6:41] Oh, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[6:42] Yeah.

[6:42] Is that the one where he knows what's going to happen next?

Elliott Kalan

[6:46] Yeah.

[6:46] Oh, yeah.

[6:47] That's the one where he runs a deli and he's just constantly yelling out, next.

[6:52] But then one day, the ticket machine breaks.

[6:55] Nobody has a number ticket and he doesn't know what to do.

[6:58] And he goes into a spiral, kills a lot of people.

[7:02] And then eventually, he like shuns one guy's hand into the meat slicer and just keeps slicing

[7:07] away.

[7:07] And I'm like, take your hand out of there until it's just like a stump.

[7:10] He just slices the hand away.

[7:12] Oh, what a great movie.

[7:13] Anyway, next.

[7:14] That's my recommendation for this week, I guess.

Stuart Wellington

[7:17] So, next to Liz Cage, sits in a hunter's blind, reading a real estate listing.

[7:23] He has a bunch of traps set up and he senses something is up in the woods.

[7:27] That's right.

[7:28] A white jag attacks his traps and then attacks him.

Dan McCoy

[7:32] Now, let's be clear that this is a Jaguar, the cat, a white jag.

[7:38] You know, the car did not like run into the tree that he was set up.

S4

[7:42] Yeah.

[7:42] Not like someone's uncle who works in finance and knows what was cool 35 years ago.

Elliott Kalan

[7:48] Yeah.

[7:48] And it also wasn't the star of the TV show Jag, David James Elliott, who is white, you know,

[7:55] but, you know.

[7:56] Was his character named Jag?

[7:58] Is that why it was called Jag?

Dan McCoy

[7:59] David James Elliott.

[8:00] Yeah.

[8:01] I've never heard of this person in my life and I know that that is a tremendously popular

[8:04] show.

Elliott Kalan

[8:05] It was on the air for 10 years, Dan.

[8:07] He played the lead character, Harmon Rabb Jr., a name I'm sure you're familiar with.

S4

[8:11] Sure.

[8:11] Your mastery over Jag makes it sound like you had to write a paper on Jag at some point,

[8:16] which can't be the truth.

Elliott Kalan

[8:18] I majored in Jag studies.

[8:20] That was for my grad degree.

[8:23] I have a doctorate in Jag.

[8:26] So, there's white Jag attacks.

[8:27] You majored in Jag agriculture.

[8:31] I've always, it's been my dream to be named Secretary of Jag agriculture in the cabinet

[8:34] and I was hoping Biden would tap me, but unfortunately he did not.

[8:38] For that job, he'd just tap me on the shoulder in kind of a creepy way and then say like, hey,

[8:42] looking good.

[8:43] And I was like, I like you, but that was not okay.

[8:46] And maybe in the next administration, who knows.

[8:49] Dan, I assume that you're, Dan, you're just more familiar with Patrick Laburoteau's character

[8:53] Budrick Bud Roberts Jr., also on Jag.

Stuart Wellington

[8:56] Oh, is Dan watching an episode of Jag now and that's why he's not paying attention to the

[8:59] show?

[8:59] Yeah, that makes sense.

Elliott Kalan

[9:01] I think, I think he might've frozen because he's streaming Jag right now.

[9:03] Anyway, so Stuart, a white Jaguar, a white Jaguar attacks Nicolas Cage and what happens?

Stuart Wellington

[9:10] From, from this point on to be referred to exclusively as a white Jag, attacks Nicolas Cage.

[9:15] They, they roll around in the ground.

[9:17] Kills him.

Elliott Kalan

[9:17] Movie over.

[9:18] Yeah.

[9:19] Very short.

Stuart Wellington

[9:20] They roll around in the ground.

[9:21] They roll around in the ground.

[9:21] Uh, and Nick manages to stab the Jaguar in the shoulder with a trink dart and the cat eventually

[9:28] collapses blood covering its maw.

[9:31] Nicolas Cage's blood?

[9:32] Thankfully not.

[9:32] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[9:32] Cut to a small village where Nicolas Cage has an argument with his driver, Diego, who

[9:39] refuses to drive him, citing the Gato Fantasma, a local legend about a white Jaguar.

[9:45] Uh, from here on out, known as a white Jag.

[9:47] Uh, Nicolas Cage says that is not a man eater.

[9:50] Nope.

[9:50] That the white Jag is worth a million bucks.

[9:53] So he has to drive this thing by himself through the jungle.

[9:56] And at this point I'm like, oh my God, this is going to be like sorcerer, but instead of

[10:00] dynamite, it's a white Jag.

Dan McCoy

[10:02] Now I'd like to take issue with this scene because Nicolas Cage, you know, yeah, he makes

[10:07] a big point about how like, this is a, not a man eater.

[10:11] He's like only, I think she said tigers and polar bears will stalk humans as prey.

[10:16] And then the rest of the movie does its best to undercut.

[10:20] This is definitely a man eating.

S4

[10:23] I think there's, oh, sorry.

[10:24] Oh no, go ahead.

[10:25] I think we might be about to say the same thing.

[10:27] Let's say it in unison.

Elliott Kalan

[10:28] Okay.

[10:30] You go first and then I'll, uh, I'll tell you if it was the thing I was thinking.

S4

[10:33] Okay.

[10:34] I was going to say that it does seem like, I don't think he's saying it's not dangerous

[10:38] because I had that same thought.

[10:39] I think he's saying they don't want to eat you, but they, but I don't think he means it

[10:44] won't kill you.

[10:45] Like, I think if it, if I think he's implying like this is a big dangerous cat, but he's,

[10:50] they're not like trying to eat and consume humans.

[10:53] No, it's hunting for fun and sport.

Elliott Kalan

[10:55] Yeah.

[10:56] Yeah.

[10:56] When the jaguar looks at a person, he doesn't see a big chicken leg, uh, or like a can that

[11:01] says jaguar food.

[11:02] Yeah.

[11:02] Instead he sees like a, like a, a toy or a doll that he can rip apart with his mouth.

[11:06] Uh, now that's, I was going to say that, but also I was going to say this, this beginning

[11:10] sets up Nicolas Cage as being not the greatest guy and also not really being that great at

[11:16] his job.

[11:16] He's very good at catching animals, but he doesn't seem to really understand animals.

[11:20] And this is shown by his, uh, his, uh, kind of cantankerous rivalry friendship with a

[11:26] parrot.

[11:26] That's always chasing him.

[11:27] Yeah.

[11:28] And this parrot is a character that is not given his due in the movie.

[11:31] There is so much like he, that character has so much potential and they never use it.

[11:36] So it could have been his Iago and they just don't go with it.

Dan McCoy

[11:39] You know, at this point in the movie, I'm like, is this movie going to ask me to sympathize

[11:46] with someone who is trafficking in endangered animals?

[11:49] Is that the game the movie is playing?

[11:52] Cause I am not necessarily going to go along with that movie.

[11:54] Now by the end, they make some like small stabs at, uh, making his motivations more sympathetic,

[12:02] but it still seems like, I'm just like, I don't know guys.

[12:06] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[12:06] He's trafficking animals to save an orphanage, right?

[12:10] Because some, uh, some land developer is going to bulldoze the orphanage.

[12:13] So the only way he can save it is animals are going to break dance.

Elliott Kalan

[12:16] Yeah.

[12:16] The only way to win it back is if a white Jaguar break dances and that means they can

[12:20] raise the money to save the rec center orphanage.

[12:22] Yeah.

S4

[12:23] I would pay to see that show.

[12:25] I would be like, wow, this is great.

[12:26] Or bar.

[12:27] And if it, if the break dancing doesn't work, the white Jaguar could just maim the land

[12:31] developer.

Elliott Kalan

[12:32] Oh yeah.

[12:33] That's another good idea.

[12:34] Now, Stuart, you said he's about to.

[12:36] He's about to get in the truck.

[12:37] This is going to be a wages of fear, sorcerer style, just like white knuckle thrill ride

[12:41] as he tries to drive down these rocky, steep kind of just, uh, overgrown jungle roads with

[12:48] this dangerous animal in the back of the truck.

[12:49] It's just a two hander.

[12:50] While he's drinking.

[12:51] While he's drinking.

[12:52] It's a two hander.

[12:52] And there's Nick Cage and this Jaguar, the Jaguar versus the Cajuar in this, in this

[12:57] drive.

[12:57] That's the movie, right, Stu?

Stuart Wellington

[12:58] Yeah.

[12:59] That's, you know what?

[13:00] You would think like a lesser movie would make that the entire plot, but nope.

[13:04] That's just the credit sequence where we get somewhat thrilling music and kind of simple

[13:10] shots of the car driving through the jungle.

[13:12] We get all the credits during this time.

[13:14] The name Primal hits the screen.

[13:16] We're pumped.

[13:17] Okay.

[13:17] Now we mentioned earlier that sometimes Nicolas Cage will bring, let's say a large performance

[13:23] and sometimes Nicolas Cage brings kind of a more subdued performance.

[13:28] We already get, we've already gotten a little bit of a taste in Nicolas Cage and we're going

[13:30] to get obviously a full meal over the course of this movie.

[13:33] So, uh, what do you guys think so far?

[13:36] I think, I think he's, I think he's bringing the goods today, guys.

[13:39] He's chomping on a Seaguar.

[13:40] He's stomping around.

[13:41] He's being a jerk to literally everybody in the movie.

[13:44] What do you guys think?

Elliott Kalan

[13:45] This is, I would say this is what I would call middle cage, which is not bad.

[13:50] We all reach middle cage eventually, you know, and it's just, it's natural and healthy.

[13:53] God willing.

[13:54] Yeah.

[13:54] God, yeah.

[13:55] Thank you.

[13:55] Yes.

[13:56] God, you know, from your, from my mouth to God's ears for all of us.

[13:58] Yeah.

[13:59] Uh, does God have ears?

[14:00] That's the weird thing.

[14:01] He's just kind of a disembodied universal spirit, but he's got big ears.

[14:04] Uh, so this is the kind of cage that we see in stolen.

[14:08] I mean, Ganesh has big ears, right?

[14:11] And Ganesh is a God.

[14:12] Well, because he's got an elephant's head.

[14:13] Yeah.

[14:13] But that's not his birth head.

[14:14] So, but, uh, so get, so that it's not Nicholas Cage, big, big, bad Lieutenant.

[14:20] And it's not Nicholas Cage, Bangkok dangerous, just sleepwalking through it.

[14:23] This is Nicholas, this is only Nicholas Cage where you're like, this is the Nicholas Cage

[14:26] that should be starring in a one hour procedural that I would watch every episode of.

[14:31] It would be super fun.

[14:32] Call it NCIS, Nicholas Cage investigative services.

Dan McCoy

[14:36] Yeah.

[14:36] I would say this is a medium Nicholas Cage.

[14:39] And then occasionally we'll get a taste of a crazier cage in there.

S4

[14:44] I agree.

[14:45] I feel like you get occasionally his line readings will be like.

[14:49] Occasionally?

[14:49] Yeah.

[14:50] Occasionally.

[14:51] Yes.

[14:51] Of course.

[14:53] Um, like when he, the, like him being in a feud with a parrot, that kind of like, he kind

[14:58] of peaks occasionally where he, where there, someone is like, oh, this is parrot.

[15:02] And he's like, a real Einstein.

[15:04] And it's like, you didn't need to come in that hot cage.

[15:07] You really, this, like, what did this parrot do to you?

[15:10] And, uh, but I kind of like his, he's got kind of like a, um, an aggrieved schlub attitude.

[15:17] Like it's almost cage stanza, like George cage stanza.

[15:20] He's just like constantly coming up with rules that like no one else plays by.

[15:25] He's like mad at things that no one else knew was a thing.

[15:28] It's great.

Stuart Wellington

[15:29] And you're like, the whole time you're like, Famke Jensen's character is flirting with

[15:33] you, dude.

[15:33] Be nice.

[15:34] You don't have to be a jerk to everyone.

Elliott Kalan

[15:35] And he's like, I mean, it's flirting in the way of the game and I read for the game.

S4

[15:41] Sean Pam got it.

[15:42] And so this is how I treat women.

Elliott Kalan

[15:44] It's the kind of African queen Humphrey Bogart, Bogart, that's for Halloween.

[15:49] Humphrey Bogart, Catherine Hepburn flirting where it's like, we hate each other.

[15:53] And then suddenly we love each other.

[15:55] It's that kind of flirting, you know?

Dan McCoy

[15:56] I don't, I mean, I would say I, one of the things I liked about this movie is I think

[16:01] at the beginning of the movie, Famke Jensen?

[16:04] Is it Jensen or is it Jansen?

Elliott Kalan

[16:07] I'd say Jansen, but I might be wrong.

Dan McCoy

[16:09] Famke Jansen is like...

Elliott Kalan

[16:11] Famous Amos.

[16:12] That's, yeah.

[16:13] Famke, she goes, it's pronounced Famous Amos, but it's spelled by Famke Jansen.

[16:16] She makes cookies.

Dan McCoy

[16:17] Famous Amos is appropriately kind of treating Nicolas Cage as like this drunk asshole.

[16:25] And then as the movie goes on, she acquires a baseline appreciation for like how he's good

[16:33] at helping in this situation.

[16:35] And at the end, there's like the glimmer of maybe there could be a romance, but I like

[16:40] that most of, for the most part, like they dispense with the idea that just because there's

[16:44] a man or a woman in the movie, they have to like each other.

[16:48] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[16:48] Baseline appreciation equals flirting, Dan.

[16:51] That's what I said.

[16:51] Okay.

S4

[16:52] This is also kind of the relationship like latter day Steven Seagal has with the female

[16:58] leads in his movies where like the person who's directing the movie kind of rightly realized

[17:02] like no one wants to see this happen.

[17:05] Like nobody wants to see that hooking up.

[17:08] Like Nicolas Cage is not like, does not like cut a sensuous figure in this movie.

[17:13] He's like belligerent.

[17:15] He's, he's, he's rude and unpleasant.

[17:17] And he's like, kind of like, uh, unkempt.

[17:20] It's just like, it's like a bridge too far.

[17:23] Like at the end of the movie where it seems like they, they have kind of a, an appreciation

[17:27] for one another and like maybe a companionship.

[17:29] You still aren't like, God, I hope, I hope they go for it.

[17:33] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[17:34] Grudging respect is what they reach.

[17:36] Yeah.

[17:37] And I think there's something, I mean, uh, Nicolas Cage and Pamela Jansen are the same

[17:41] age, I believe.

[17:42] So I appreciate that the movie has two stars where if they did get into a romance, you'd

[17:46] be like, that's great.

[17:48] Nicolas Cage, I don't have to imagine Nicolas Cage macking all over some woman 40 years younger

[17:52] than him.

[17:53] You know?

[17:54] Yeah.

[17:55] You're like, that's great.

[17:56] It's nice that he found someone.

[17:57] Yeah.

[17:57] That's good.

[17:58] You know what?

[17:58] They can build, you know, they've got a shared frame of reference.

[18:00] They grew up at the same time.

[18:02] Uh, they're at the same place in life.

[18:04] Like this, they really could build like a stable, not particularly exciting, but like,

[18:08] you know, just, just a good relationship where they see each other when they see each other.

[18:13] And you know, there's no expectations because what are they going to raise a family together?

[18:17] No.

[18:17] They both have their own careers.

S4

[18:19] They're not expecting one to like do favors for the other.

[18:22] One's not 26 years younger and pretending to be Spanish, let's say.

Stuart Wellington

[18:27] And I mean, they're going to have, they're going to have that white jag money and you

[18:29] know, a house on Pine Lake.

[18:32] Is that what he keeps talking about?

Elliott Kalan

[18:33] That's what he wants the whole time.

[18:34] He's just talking about how, I mean, when we first see him reading that real estate magazine

[18:38] while he's sitting in the Hunter's Blind, it's like that tableau tells us everything we

[18:41] need to know about Nick Cage in this movie.

[18:43] He is real estate hungry.

[18:44] He's a hunter and he's not taking care of himself.

S4

[18:47] It also tells you the kind of like the nuance that went into making the movie, right?

[18:52] Like the magazine was called real estate.

[18:54] It just said real estate on the front.

[18:56] There was no like title of the magazine.

[18:59] There was no location on it.

[19:00] They're just like, he's looking at houses.

[19:01] I don't know.

[19:02] Real estate, idiot.

[19:03] Write it on the front.

Elliott Kalan

[19:06] Now, I just want to mention again.

[19:07] So this, because I don't think we're going to talk about it much.

[19:10] This parrot, we learn later has a trick where he can say, when he sees a gun, he says,

[19:14] take the shot, take the shot.

[19:16] This never pays off, which is the minute they did that.

[19:20] I was like, eventually Nick Cage is going to have to shoot the bad guy and the parrot's

[19:23] going to say, take the shot.

[19:24] But it does not happen.

Dan McCoy

[19:25] Hold on.

[19:26] I thought, doesn't it?

[19:26] I think that like later on, doesn't he say, hey, idiot, my gun isn't drawn.

[19:33] When the parrot says, take the shot.

[19:34] And then he like the parrot flies off and he gets suspicious.

[19:37] He's like, oh, maybe this parrot saw another gun.

[19:40] And that's when he like briefly finds the bad guy.

[19:43] That is the most minimal.

Elliott Kalan

[19:44] That's a minimal payoff.

[19:45] We're being paid pennies on the dollar if that's the payoff for that bit.

[19:48] The payoff should be that that Nicholas Cage gets told by the parrot when to shoot the bad guy.

S4

[19:53] That's true.

[19:53] Yeah.

[19:54] Just with kind of an Ed Harris wearing a beret intensity, if that makes sense.

[19:58] Yeah.

[20:01] It makes the most sense.

Elliott Kalan

[20:03] Thank you.

[20:03] I just imagine Ed Harris coming back from a trip to Paris.

[20:06] And he's like, he's like, call me Ed Paris.

[20:08] I'm going to be French now.

[20:09] And he's just wearing a beret and listening to like a lot of like Edith P.F. music.

[20:14] And just be like, oh.

[20:14] Serge Gainsbourg.

[20:15] We got to make that happen.

[20:18] Guys, let's start a Kickstarter to send Ed Harris to Paris.

Dan McCoy

[20:23] Yeah.

[20:23] Forget Emily in Paris.

[20:25] Harris in Paris.

[20:26] That's what we got.

Elliott Kalan

[20:27] It was originally called Ed Harris in Paris.

[20:28] And then Ed Harris dropped out at the last minute.

[20:30] And they replaced him with Emily.

S4

[20:32] And then it was supposed to rhyme.

[20:33] And now it still rhymes.

[20:34] Emily in Paris.

[20:35] I was actually at the concert where Jay-Z and Kanye West performed Ed Harris in Paris like 13 times in a row.

[20:42] Oh, wow.

[20:43] People were psyched.

[20:44] It was fun.

[20:45] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[20:45] So, so, so Nicholas Cage is loading his exotic.

[20:51] Nicholas Cage is loading his exotic animal collection onto a container ship.

[20:56] He's annoyed because the ship is going to have to stop at Puerto Rico.

[21:00] And that's going to mess up his timetable.

[21:02] When a bunch of armed, armed soldiers led by a U.S.

[21:06] Marshal played by Michael Imperioli arrived to escort a prisoner played by the one, the only,

[21:14] Kevin Durant flop house fave, who is doing like a, like a kind of a Hannibal Lecter soldier type thing.

Elliott Kalan

[21:22] In my notes, I refer to it as Hannibal Lecter by way of your friend's uncle's impression of Hannibal Lecter.

S4

[21:28] It also felt to me, the Nicholas Cage presence also felt, made it feel like, oh, this is Cyrus the virus.

[21:37] Like, this is con boat is what we're about to do.

[21:39] Yes.

Dan McCoy

[21:40] That is definitely con boat.

[21:42] It is animal.

[21:43] It is snakes on a plane with more animals crossed with con boat.

[21:47] And I think, I think, I think Kevin Durant is also like, he's like, well, Nicholas Cage is in this movie.

[21:54] I got like whatever, whatever scenery he's leaving unshoot.

[21:58] I got to, I got to jump on that.

[22:00] I got to eat up those scraps.

Elliott Kalan

[22:01] Even for just like, I better match Nick Cage's intensity.

[22:03] And then after the third day of shooting was like, are you going to amp it up at all, Nick?

[22:07] Or am I like, because I feel like I'm balanced here.

[22:10] So I just want to pitch you guys this idea off of the concept con boat, which I love.

[22:16] Okay.

[22:16] Yep.

[22:17] Okay.

[22:17] Thor Heyerdahl wants to prove that it's possible people could travel great distances using like a log built raft boat.

[22:24] Unfortunately, his crew is made up of escaped convicts.

[22:28] It's con, C-O-N-Tiki.

[22:30] And it's like, it's exploration.

[22:33] It's adventure.

[22:35] It's action.

[22:36] And at the end, somehow this wooden raft explodes.

[22:39] Guys, how much money will you pay me to make this movie?

Stuart Wellington

[22:42] I mean, a wooden raft's not that expensive, right?

[22:45] So you don't need that much money.

Elliott Kalan

[22:46] But I'm going to need a bunch because we're going to blow it up a few times in the movie.

[22:49] Oh, okay.

[22:50] So I mean, it's, so you're paying for, but also the talent I'm hoping to get in this movie is going to be enormous.

[22:55] You're going to have probably Gary Oldman as Thor Heyerdahl because we've seen he can play someone much younger than himself in Manc.

[23:02] There was at no point during Manc where I was like, no, this is clearly an old man pretending to be a much younger man.

[23:07] It's an old man pretending to be much younger man.

[23:09] I'm watching a 43-year-old and sometimes a 35-year-old in the flashbacks, and I'm totally buying the illusion that this is the person I'm seeing.

Stuart Wellington

[23:16] Now, I haven't seen Manc, but do they do the same technique as when they do like Better Call Saul flashbacks and they just brush Bob Odenkirk's hair forward?

[23:24] And you're like, he's a 20-year-old slipping Jimmy over here.

Elliott Kalan

[23:27] They don't even do that.

[23:28] Manc kind of exists in a world where he is always an old man, even when he's a young man.

[23:33] Now, and for the convicts, I was thinking the Muppets.

[23:36] So that's going to make the shoot much more expensive because I just saw Muppet Treasure Island and I was like, yes, that's how to do it.

[23:42] Muppets on the open seas.

[23:43] That's going to make it more expensive.

Dan McCoy

[23:45] Yeah.

[23:45] You're going to have to have divers underneath doing the Muppets.

[23:49] You know, Elliot, I've never financed a movie before, but it's probably not a dangerous investment.

[23:56] So sure, I'll put money in.

Elliott Kalan

[23:59] I mean, it is a dangerous investment, Dan, because my lawyer is a shark, literally, and he will eat you during negotiations.

S4

[24:05] They call that the most dangerous investment.

[24:08] Where you invest in Elliot's movie and then a shark hunts you.

Elliott Kalan

[24:11] You're shipwrecked on an island where a guy is trying to sell you Bitcoin, and that's the most dangerous investment.

[24:19] So, Stu, who else?

[24:20] Okay, so they're all getting on the boat.

[24:21] I apologize.

[24:22] We're like 10 minutes into the movie.

[24:23] No, it's okay.

[24:23] We all got very excited.

Stuart Wellington

[24:25] When Michael Imperioli and Famke Jensen show up, Famke Jensen plays the special doctor who's there to look after the prisoner.

[24:33] Now, this prisoner is not only dangerous, but he also suffers from a rare condition where if he goes to a certain altitude, he'll have a seizure and die.

[24:43] That's why he's on the boat and not on a plane.

S4

[24:46] This is the second movie I've seen in the last two weeks where that happens, but in the first movie, it's a secret, so I won't say what movie it is.

[24:53] Oh, okay.

[24:54] Oh, interesting.

[24:55] It's called Secret Seizure.

Stuart Wellington

[24:57] Yeah, pay attention to the episode.

[24:58] Josh will be dropping little Easter eggs the whole time.

S4

[25:01] Little Easter eggs as to what other movies I've seen the last two weeks.

[25:04] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[25:05] Okay, so Nicolas Cage makes friends.

Elliott Kalan

[25:07] Let's just say one of them took place in 1984, and I'm not saying George Orwell wrote it.

Stuart Wellington

[25:14] So Nicolas Cage makes friends with people on the boat by being a huge asshole to everybody.

[25:19] He explains that he's selling that white jag to the highest bidding zoo.

[25:23] He originally went to find a regular jag for peanuts, but now he found this white one.

[25:27] So, man, he's going to make bank.

[25:30] The feds are transporting an elite assassin counterterrorist who, as I said, can't fly because of a malformation on his brain that would kill him if he changes altitude.

[25:38] So there's a reason they're on a boat, guys.

[25:40] Okay?

[25:41] Chill out.

Dan McCoy

[25:43] Also, the romance of, you know, boat travel.

[25:46] That's the thing.

[25:46] He, like, comes on with a big steamer trunk.

[25:50] There are other convicts waving handkerchiefs as they leave.

[25:54] Yeah, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[25:55] Now, the convict's name is Loffler, so I'm going to try and refer to him as Loffler or maybe sometimes Kevin Durant for the rest of this.

[26:02] So Nicolas Cage introduces...

Elliott Kalan

[26:04] Now, what's Famke Jansen's character's name?

Stuart Wellington

[26:07] Dr. Taylor?

Elliott Kalan

[26:09] Okay, you're right.

[26:10] It is Dr. Taylor.

[26:11] I don't think you're going to get the last name.

[26:12] I would not have gotten any of this.

S4

[26:14] You know she's a serious lady because her name is two jobs.

[26:17] Yeah.

[26:19] Professional.

Stuart Wellington

[26:23] Yeah, so Nicolas Cage introduces the son of the captain because the captain's kid.

[26:29] That was originally going to be the name of the movie is Captain's Kid.

[26:33] Realize it didn't make sense.

[26:35] Or Con Boat Captain's Kid, colon.

Elliott Kalan

[26:38] It's called Con Toddy, and it's three toddlers have to sail a raft across the ocean to prove that toddlers could have populated South America or wherever.

Stuart Wellington

[26:47] Elliot is really banking on con tiki jokes this whole episode.

[26:50] Yeah, it's not even a book I read recently.

Elliott Kalan

[26:53] I read this book 25 years ago, I think.

[26:56] Anyway, it's by Todd Pire Doll.

[26:59] Doll spelled D-O-L-L like a kid's toy.

Stuart Wellington

[27:01] So Nicolas Cage is introducing this kid to his menagerie of critters, not actual critters, the crites from outer space.

[27:08] These are normal animals.

[27:09] But he describes each of these animals so you know each of the specific things he mentions are going to come back later.

[27:16] So when he talks about these monkeys peeling off your face, start watching your face, boys, because these monkeys are going to get loose and start face peeling.

Elliott Kalan

[27:23] And when he talks about how his parrot says, take the shot, do not get your hopes up.

[27:27] Do not get your hopes up.

[27:28] That will not play into the climax.

Stuart Wellington

[27:28] You will be bummed.

Dan McCoy

[27:30] Also, I mean, I don't know if you guys had this problem.

[27:32] I could not tell.

[27:34] Like, parrots are not known for their ability to enunciate.

[27:37] So I actually didn't know what that parrot was saying.

[27:40] I should have put on the subtitle.

[27:42] Yeah.

S4

[27:43] Because the thing he was saying was that the parrot hates guns.

[27:47] Yeah.

[27:48] Right?

[27:48] That was like a trait of this parrot's personality.

Dan McCoy

[27:51] Yeah.

[27:51] Right.

[27:51] So I would not expect to take the shot if he hates guns.

[27:55] Yeah.

[27:55] Or maybe he just hates people holding guns and not shooting them.

[27:58] Who knows?

[27:59] Yeah.

[28:00] He's a big fan of his favorite gun, Chekhov's.

[28:05] The parrot's like, hey, production for use.

[28:07] Production for use.

[28:08] That was for Elliot, by the way.

Elliott Kalan

[28:10] Oh, thank you.

[28:10] Thank you.

[28:10] His Girl Friday.

[28:11] Anyway, so also, which animals are CGI and which are not?

[28:16] The white jaguar is very clearly a computer animated jaguar.

[28:19] Oh, what?

[28:19] The monkeys?

[28:19] Wait, really?

[28:21] I think it was.

S4

[28:22] They reappropriated it from like a Sega CD game from 1996.

Stuart Wellington

[28:27] Yeah.

[28:28] It seemed like a demo sound effect reel they would play before a DVD, like a production

[28:34] reel.

Elliott Kalan

[28:34] If that jaguar was any more CGI, he would be winking and rapping at some point during the

[28:38] movie.

Dan McCoy

[28:39] I mean, in the cages, maybe there were some real animals, but I think everything was CGI

[28:46] after that.

[28:46] Even the tapirs?

[28:47] Maybe not the snake.

Elliott Kalan

[28:48] The tapirs looked real.

[28:50] They looked delicious.

[28:51] I think they got a real tapir onto that boat, in which case, more power to you.

[28:55] God help you.

[28:55] I've tried that.

[28:56] It's hard to get a taper onto a boat.

Stuart Wellington

[28:57] Yeah.

[28:58] I mean, Nicolas Cage trains his own tapirs.

[29:00] So.

S4

[29:02] That's what he does.

[29:02] Well, he trains them and then you have to pay him to have them in the movie.

[29:06] It's like a grift he's got going on.

Elliott Kalan

[29:07] They just, they wanted to, well, actually they wanted to hire his tapirs for the movie and

[29:11] he's like, if I get the role.

[29:12] Well, we kind of already promised it to Michael Dudikoff.

[29:15] No, no, no.

[29:16] It's my movie now.

[29:17] These tapirs.

[29:18] Tapirs are the best in Hollywood.

[29:20] Well, we'll just get a, we'll just use pigs instead.

[29:23] Are you kidding me?

[29:24] I know pigs are roughly the same shape and size as tapirs, but it is not going to look

[29:28] as good on camera.

[29:29] No, I mean, we'll get, we'll get a pig and we'll put like a little trunk on it.

[29:32] No, no, no, no, no.

S4

[29:33] You want to come in with a pig?

[29:35] Our movie primal is going to seem generic if we use pigs instead of tapirs.

Elliott Kalan

[29:41] Now imagine this same, the same movie, but it's made by kids and all the animals are just

[29:45] their pets.

[29:46] So they're, so it's like dogs and cats for their pretending that they're wild animals.

[29:50] That would be pretty, pretty cute.

S4

[29:51] It would be pretty cute.

[29:53] Like if a bunch of kids did a, um, be kind.

[29:55] Was it be kind rewind?

[29:56] Was that the most deaf Jack Black movie?

[29:58] Yeah.

[29:59] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[30:00] With a little kid with like a soot smeared on his face to look like five o'clock shadow,

[30:04] like Nicolas Cage has.

[30:06] Oh yeah.

[30:06] That'd be adorable.

[30:07] Yeah.

[30:08] Chomping on a cigar.

[30:09] It'd be a candy cigar.

[30:10] Cause you know, children shouldn't be even pretending to smoke a cigar.

[30:13] Cause I think that just sends a bad message to kids.

[30:15] Right?

Elliott Kalan

[30:16] Yeah.

[30:17] Yeah.

[30:17] I think so.

[30:17] I mean, nobody should really be smoking cigars.

[30:20] I hope that tobacco lobby doesn't come out, but there's really no, there's no good side

[30:23] to it.

[30:24] Uh, I mean, they, they smell bad and you look like an asshole.

[30:30] Best case scenario, best case scenario.

[30:32] You look like Rudy Giuliani.

[30:33] Is that really such a good case scenario?

Dan McCoy

[30:35] Well, that's how would you know that someone was a newspaper editor?

Elliott Kalan

[30:40] Like, no, but you might also think they're just very rich.

[30:44] If they're chomping on a cigar.

[30:46] Okay.

[30:47] Only one, only one, only one, only one person should chomp on cigars and that's the alligator

[30:52] from Pogo.

[30:53] So this, it's, or Mrs. E.C.

[30:56] Seaguar.

[30:58] Whoa, whoa.

[31:00] Dan, some, some blue humor about the creator of Popeye.

S4

[31:05] Um, so at this point in the movie, right?

[31:07] They, when they bring in, uh, Loffler and they, they're like, he's being openly contemptuous

[31:14] of them in like a very, that, that I think was that vibe of like his open contempt for

[31:19] the law that was like, whose, uh, charge he was in.

[31:23] That's what felt to me like Con Air.

[31:24] And I was like, at this, at that moment, like as soon as they lock him into that cage and

[31:29] she's watching over him, she's like, I'm always on call as his neurologist.

[31:32] I like turned to my, to my wife and was like, how many minutes do you think till he fakes

[31:36] a seizure, gets out and kills everyone?

[31:37] Right.

[31:37] That's what we're angling for here.

[31:40] It could not be otherwise.

[31:41] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[31:41] Basically the next scene involved, like he, he says he wants a Coke.

[31:46] They don't bring him a Coke.

[31:47] Of course.

[31:48] I mean, it's probably because of branding or something.

[31:50] Eventually somebody gives him a Coke and that's what lets him do a seizure.

[31:54] Are we to believe that he managed to get ahold of the Coke and then he let the foam fake

[31:59] a seizure?

[32:00] Do I don't know.

[32:00] It doesn't matter.

Elliott Kalan

[32:01] I don't remember them handing him the Coke.

[32:02] I thought they put it just far enough outside his cage that he couldn't reach it to taunt him.

[32:06] And then he was like, oh, that's the last straw.

[32:08] Now I'm definitely killing everybody.

[32:09] Now I'm going to kill all these army men and women.

Stuart Wellington

[32:13] So he fakes a seizure.

[32:15] The, uh, the two guards try and go in and stop, stop him from having a seizure.

[32:19] And of course he breaks free and murders both of them.

[32:22] And now that he's free, ho, ho, ho, he's got a machine gun.

[32:25] Uh, he leaves dead bodies in his wake.

Elliott Kalan

[32:27] One of the guards does the most foolish thing you can do if a, if a, if a super, if a super

[32:32] assassin is having a seizure in front of you, which is he tries to open his mouth with his

[32:35] hands.

[32:36] Of course, he's just going to bite down on those hands.

[32:38] Just like Nick Cage slicing off fingers in next to the movie about the guy who kills everybody

[32:42] at that deli.

[32:43] And that's just a bad idea.

[32:44] You want to keep your hands away from the mouth of any sort of mass murderer.

[32:47] That's just, I'm just going to tell you, unless you are a licensed dictator dentist, that's

[32:51] the guy who goes and handles, you know, like, uh, dictator's teeths, you know, then you don't

[32:57] want to put your hands anywhere near the mouth of a mass murderer.

[32:59] I'll just tell you that.

S4

[32:59] As Buster Rimes would say, if you really want to party with me, keep your hands where

[33:03] that guy can't eat.

[33:08] That's just what my brain was going to think at this hour of the day, whether I was on this

[33:12] podcast or not.

[33:13] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[33:13] Mr. Rimes, we mean no disrespect at all.

[33:15] That's just, you know, it was just Josh having fun.

[33:18] Please don't get mad.

[33:19] Buster Rimes, we've had a contentious relationship with him, you know, so.

[33:22] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[33:22] I mean, I'm certainly very, I'm certainly very jealous of his glow up recently.

[33:27] He went from, you know, being like a larger fellow to a very in shape fellow during quarantine.

[33:34] It's, uh, I think that's the kind of thing that can inspire all of us.

[33:38] Okay.

[33:39] So, uh, so they, Loffler gets loose.

[33:43] They make a plan to catch him, uh, that involves moving everybody to a secure part of the ship.

[33:49] But of course, Nicolas Cage wants to feed his animals.

[33:52] It's been too long.

[33:53] They need food.

[33:55] However, they convince him not to worry about it.

[33:57] Uh, and they want to secure all the civilians so that the soldiers can finally hunt the most dangerous game.

[34:05] This guy, Loffler.

[34:07] Loffler lets out Frank's animals.

[34:09] Of course, they try to like, they let the cook out and they're like, hey, you should go to the kitchen and make everybody a bunch of food.

[34:15] I guess to lift their spirits.

[34:16] That's a big mistake because Loffler left, left a monkey trap where he left a bunch of monkeys in the, uh, in the kitchen.

Elliott Kalan

[34:22] Classic monkey trap.

[34:24] You just put monkeys in a room and wait till someone goes in.

Stuart Wellington

[34:28] And those monkeys totally murder this dude.

Dan McCoy

[34:30] This monkey trap trap really works extra because apparently this chef really, really hates monkeys.

[34:38] Like immediately he's just like got his, uh, meat cleaver hacking wildly at these monkeys.

[34:45] Which, you know, I don't know.

[34:45] He really took his eye off the ball.

S4

[34:48] Yeah.

[34:48] Like he, there's like a, a, um, murder, an assassin, right?

[34:53] A military trained rogue assassin loose on the ship that they're trying to avoid.

[34:57] And he's like, oh, time to settle this score first.

Stuart Wellington

[35:01] Do you think he's trying to, he's like, maybe if I totally kill these monkeys really gross, the assassin will give himself up because he'll know I'm not to be messed with.

[35:10] Yeah.

[35:11] Well, his plan backfires because the monkeys knock him on the ground and strip the meat from his bones like a critter ball rolling over a running away guy.

Elliott Kalan

[35:21] A lot of critter talk in this one.

[35:22] I like it.

[35:23] Oh man, I love it.

Stuart Wellington

[35:24] It's on HBO Max or at least it was last time I watched it on HBO Max.

[35:28] So, uh, yeah.

[35:31] So Nicolas Cage manages to sneak loose.

[35:34] Uh, he goes to find his animals.

[35:36] He bumps into Loffler.

[35:38] Uh, oh no.

[35:39] He, Nicolas Cage manages to get,

[35:41] a radio.

[35:42] Loffler has a radio and they kind of like bond over the radio having both been soldiers.

[35:47] Nicolas Cage has to track down all his animals.

[35:50] And of course he gets.

S4

[35:50] Kind of sleepless in Seattle moment.

[35:52] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[35:52] It's, there's a little, you know, they like, Nicolas Cage is like, maybe, maybe I put up too many walls with this attitude I take with everybody.

[36:00] Um, does it, you know, it turns out it's not going to work out.

Elliott Kalan

[36:04] Loffler's like, this is, this is going to sound weird, but it's so awkward making friends when you're an adult.

[36:10] Would you like, would you want to like get ice cream sometime?

[36:14] Like we don't have to sit down for a whole meal.

[36:15] I know it's weird.

[36:17] Uh, I know people go out for drinks, but that kind of seems romantic.

[36:19] Can we just like, is it weird for two grownup dudes to just go get ice cream together in the middle of the day?

[36:25] And Nick Cage is like, that's the least weird thing I've ever heard.

[36:27] And then it's like, it's the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

[36:30] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[36:31] Oh man.

[36:32] I'm just thinking about, thinking about pre COVID times when you could just go for a random ice cream in the middle of the afternoon.

[36:38] It is really funny.

[36:39] Whenever my wife and I are driving around, uh, driving around doing work.

[36:42] If we, if she ever sees an adult walking around in the middle of the day, just eating an ice cream cone, she gets like irrationally angry.

[36:51] She's like, you have nothing to do.

[36:53] Really?

Elliott Kalan

[36:54] My, my, my immediate reaction is I should do that.

[36:57] This guy has had a great idea.

Stuart Wellington

[36:58] For sure.

[36:59] It's like, oh, la dee da.

Dan McCoy

[37:02] That is like the grinchiest response.

[37:04] I got to say.

[37:04] Yeah.

[37:05] Yeah.

[37:05] You got nothing stopping, nothing stopping her from getting ice cream if she wants to.

[37:09] Look, buddy, you got time to cream, you got time to clean.

Elliott Kalan

[37:13] That's what they say in, in, uh, with, with those topless maids.

[37:16] That's what they also say.

[37:17] Okay.

[37:19] Okay.

[37:20] That was disgusting.

[37:21] Sorry, Josh.

[37:21] Anyway, so the.

[37:23] Thank you.

[37:23] Now apologize to Buster Rhymes.

[37:25] Sorry.

[37:26] Apologies, Mr. Rhymes.

[37:27] I know you don't like that kind of talk.

[37:29] Uh, so, uh, speaking of pre-COVID times, I was with my children at a public park earlier

[37:33] today, masked very distant from everybody else.

[37:35] We were safely and healthily exploring the abandoned zoo cages at the Griffith Park, uh,

[37:41] former LA Zoo, which is a wonderland of rusted metal and, uh, little baggies that used to have

[37:47] drugs in them littering the ground.

[37:48] Uh, and so, and we passed by a water fountain and my younger son, who's two, he was like,

[37:52] I want to drink a water.

[37:53] And I was like, no, no, that's turned off right now.

[37:55] And I was like, now that seems like the most insane idea in the world.

[38:00] I use insane, you know, not in a pejorative way, but a little bit, uh, to go to a, a thing

[38:06] just out in the open in a public space that shoots water and put your mouth right above

[38:10] it and shoot the water into your mouth.

[38:12] And just kind of like, well, and you might wait online to do that behind other people.

[38:16] We're also going to just put their mouths right over it.

[38:18] Like that seems crazy to me now, but I used to do it.

[38:21] Guys, what's your feeling on water fountains?

[38:22] Is it as weird as it seems to me now that we live in a germ, wait, a germ, uh, Potopia?

Dan McCoy

[38:27] I mean, at first I was like, well, what's your problem?

[38:30] It's just, it's shooting the water into your mouth.

[38:32] That water's not getting reused.

[38:33] But then I'm like, well, there are a lot of those weirdos who put their mouth right on

[38:38] the, right on the thing.

[38:39] Right.

S4

[38:40] Like they're practicing for when they really get to kiss a metal robot.

Elliott Kalan

[38:43] Water fountains are not the most efficient water delivery system.

[38:49] And a lot of that water just dribbles right out of your mouth back onto the fountain.

[38:52] So it's.

Dan McCoy

[38:53] Yeah, but they're not reusing that water back into your mouth.

Elliott Kalan

[38:57] It's not like that water doesn't go into a separate tube to go to the waste water area.

[39:02] It just falls right back into the same pipe.

[39:04] It's got a drain, Ellie.

[39:06] They're not.

S4

[39:07] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[39:07] That water's not.

[39:08] Yeah, this isn't, this isn't Mario Brothers.

[39:10] They don't come out and down in the same.

Elliott Kalan

[39:12] All right.

[39:13] Well, this, it just seems, it seems bizarre to me now that I ever was like, oh, let me

[39:17] go to this germ bath and just shoot it into my face.

Stuart Wellington

[39:19] Do you need like an incredible cross section to explain how a water fountain works?

Dan McCoy

[39:23] What seems bizarre to me is, yes, that you drank from a water fountain at any time if you

[39:29] thought that was how it worked.

Elliott Kalan

[39:30] I never thought about it before because I thought I would live forever.

[39:32] Also, it's always seemed weird to me that I call them water fountains when I should call

[39:35] them drinking fountains.

[39:36] Every fountain is a water fountain, unless it's like a samurai chopped a guy's head off and

[39:41] a fountain of blood shoots out.

[39:42] Like a water fountain.

[39:43] Water fountain is redundant.

[39:44] You know, it doesn't tell you.

[39:45] Chocolate fountain.

[39:46] Yeah.

[39:46] Chocolate fountain.

[39:46] A lot of fondue.

[39:47] Fondue.

[39:47] Yeah.

[39:49] Okay.

[39:49] So.

[39:50] Fountains of Wayne, I guess.

Stuart Wellington

[39:51] Yeah.

[39:52] Nicolas Cage manages to get his most important item.

[39:56] His trank gun that has a little strap that he can put around his wrist.

[39:59] So you know that thing's not going nowhere.

[40:01] He's going to have that until the grave.

[40:04] Let's see.

[40:05] So they all like split up.

[40:09] All the soldiers split up, which makes a lot of sense.

[40:12] This gives Loffler time to infiltrate the engineers and find out all about how the ship works.

[40:16] He does some really good character work with these guys.

[40:19] So they buy that.

[40:19] He's just a regular Joe working on a boat.

Elliott Kalan

[40:23] Of course.

[40:24] They think he's one of the soldiers.

S4

[40:26] Yeah.

[40:27] He gave the name of one of the soldiers as if they know all the soldiers' names.

[40:31] And they were like, oh, right.

Elliott Kalan

[40:32] Okay.

[40:33] Well, that checks out.

[40:35] From the mixer.

[40:36] He's like, I hope these guys didn't talk to that soldier during the mixer when we launched the boat.

[40:41] Yeah.

[40:43] That's usually what happens.

Stuart Wellington

[40:44] Everybody gets up on the forecastle.

[40:48] Yep.

[40:49] The forecastle.

[40:50] And they drink champagne.

[40:52] And they're like, oh, they wave goodbye.

[40:54] They wave goodbye to the people back on dry land, right?

[40:57] Okay.

[40:57] Yep.

[40:58] So, well, it's interesting.

[41:00] We've been talking so much about water fountains because the next crisis is that there is no water on the boat.

[41:06] And you're like, but there's water everywhere, but not a drop to drink.

[41:12] Cue guitar solo.

[41:13] Yep.

[41:14] So the captain and all the people wander into the water room.

[41:22] They find that the water's all drained out.

[41:24] Like, all the tanks are busted.

[41:27] And there's, like, sparks shooting out of the control panels.

[41:29] And then all of a sudden, the captain gets bitten on the leg by a snake.

[41:34] And not just any snake, guys.

[41:35] A fucking Bushmaster.

[41:37] Stuart Wellington's second favorite snake of all time.

[41:41] What's the first favorite?

[41:42] We've got to ask for the top five, I think.

[41:45] I mean, I'm just going to go with it.

[41:47] Bushmaster used to be my number one snake behind, like, Emerald Viper and an Eastern Diamondback.

[41:53] Wait, so you're saying it was your number one snake behind two other snakes?

Elliott Kalan

[41:57] Thank you, Elliot, for...

[41:58] I'm getting all worked up here.

Stuart Wellington

[42:00] You guys are confusing me with your Bushmasters, your Emerald Vipers.

[42:04] But obviously, my number one now is the fattest of the Vipers.

[42:08] That's right, the Gaboon Viper.

[42:10] Not the Gambon Viper.

[42:11] That's the one that welcomes you to the layer cake.

[42:13] But the Gaboon Viper is the one that's a big fatty with little horns on his nose.

[42:18] And he looks awesome.

[42:19] And he's super deadly.

[42:20] Bushmaster, also super deadly.

S4

[42:22] It's less weird that you know this much about snakes than Elliot knows that much about Jack.

Elliott Kalan

[42:28] Wait, but Stuart, this reminds me.

[42:30] I meant to text you.

[42:31] Did you see they discovered a new species of Matamata?

Stuart Wellington

[42:34] No, what?

[42:34] My favorite turtle, the Matamata?

Elliott Kalan

[42:37] There's a new species and it looks super crazy.

[42:39] Oh my, what?

Stuart Wellington

[42:40] Wait, what is it?

[42:42] Don't spoil it.

[42:43] I've got to look it up.

[42:44] No, no, look it up afterwards.

[42:45] Look it up afterwards.

[42:46] Why am I wasting my time with a podcast when I can be looking at pictures of a sweet turt?

Elliott Kalan

[42:51] That was my second favorite natural world discovery story recently.

[42:56] The other one being the 57,000 year old baby wolf that was discovered, preserved in ice.

[43:03] But yeah, there's a new Matamata.

Stuart Wellington

[43:04] You're going to like it.

[43:05] Oh man.

[43:05] Oh man, what a teaser.

[43:07] Okay, so Bushmaster bites the captain.

[43:09] Of course, you guys were like, fuck, this dude is smoked because a Bushmaster's venom is super deadly.

[43:16] But Nicolas Cage is like, oh, don't worry, it'll be fine.

[43:19] Maybe we'll get some antivenom.

[43:22] Meanwhile.

[43:23] But he knows he's lying.

S4

[43:25] Yeah, because Sam Kajensen is like, we got to help.

[43:27] And he's like, no, I was just lying.

[43:30] I was trying to keep the kid happy.

Stuart Wellington

[43:32] Well, he's trying to keep the kid happy and I think he's looking for an excuse to just go for a little walk, you know?

[43:37] Yeah.

[43:37] When you're all cooped up in one room, you're like, I'm going to strip these getaway sticks.

Dan McCoy

[43:41] I'm not sure if we've made it clear.

[43:44] If we have, I forgot that the captain is the father of the kid that has sort of melted Nicolas Cage's heart a little bit.

Elliott Kalan

[43:53] Yeah.

[43:53] It's ironic because the child is the father of the man.

[43:55] But in this case, the captain is the father of the kid.

S4

[43:57] Yeah.

[43:58] Yeah.

[43:58] And Femke Jansen keeps trying to get Nicolas Cage to do something good.

[44:06] And he keeps being like, no, that's not what I do, lady.

[44:10] His whole thing is like, no, I don't care about stuff.

[44:13] I just want to do my thing.

Elliott Kalan

[44:15] Look, I'm all about real estate and selling wild animals.

[44:19] That's what I do.

[44:20] Ask me to do one of those two things.

[44:23] Otherwise, I'm the bad guy.

[44:25] Duh.

Stuart Wellington

[44:26] She looked at her, Femke Jansen looked at her horoscope and was like, convince one person to do a nice thing.

[44:33] And she's like, okay, I guess I got my marching orders.

Dan McCoy

[44:36] Guys, I picked the wrong guy.

[44:40] But thinking about both captains and animals, Captain Kangaroo could be so much more exciting than what it actually is.

[44:48] Like if you're just basing it on the title, like imagine a kangaroo who's a captain.

[44:54] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[44:55] Yeah, sure.

[44:56] Well, the problem is that he's a captain in the SS.

[44:59] So that's the real issue.

[45:01] So it's less cool.

[45:03] That's why they're replacing him with Bob Keeshan.

[45:04] I hate that kangaroo.

[45:04] Yeah.

[45:05] No, but you're right, Dan.

[45:07] When I was a kid, certainly Captain Kangaroo was already like not hip anymore.

[45:12] Like it had been on since my parents were kids.

[45:15] And I certainly had an image in my head that was not borne out when they said, hey, watch this.

[45:19] And they showed me a man that was not a kangaroo just talking about I don't know.

Dan McCoy

[45:23] A guy with a bowl cut.

[45:25] And some puppets.

Elliott Kalan

[45:27] Was that also the show that Mr. Green Jeans was on?

[45:30] Yeah.

[45:30] Who was a guy who had green pants?

[45:31] And my dad would talk about how much he loved that show and loved Mr. Green Jeans.

[45:35] And I was like, that must have been a rough time in American history when you would just

[45:38] be excited by a man with different colored pants.

S4

[45:40] Like that's the novelty he has.

[45:42] It would have been pretty fun if Mr. Green Jeans was a kangaroo.

Elliott Kalan

[45:48] Yeah.

[45:49] A little switcheroo right there.

Dan McCoy

[45:50] I think ping pong balls fell from the sky at certain points.

[45:53] That was the other big draw in Captain Kangaroo Land.

[45:57] Yeah.

[45:58] I mean, I grew up on You Can't...

Elliott Kalan

[45:59] Not green slime?

[46:00] Well, that's the thing.

[46:00] I grew up on You Can't Do That on Television.

[46:01] I was used to much more exciting things falling out of the sky.

[46:04] And also locker room gags?

[46:05] Come on.

[46:05] When they would step out of the lockers and tell a gag?

Stuart Wellington

[46:08] It's crazy because the whole time...

[46:10] I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but they're on television.

Dan McCoy

[46:14] Yeah.

[46:15] That's the...

[46:16] Well, I mean, they were shut down eventually.

[46:19] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[46:19] Yeah.

[46:20] OSHA.

[46:21] Yeah.

[46:22] I mean, you can't have a restaurant that essentially serves barf.

[46:26] And just have...

[46:27] Just serves vomit to kids and keep that open for too long.

[46:30] Eventually, the government's going to find out.

[46:32] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[46:33] So, while they're dealing with the whole snake situation, the white jag comes out of hiding

[46:38] and kills one of the soldiers.

[46:41] Maybe it is a man-eater or a man-killer.

[46:43] We'll find out.

[46:44] So, the other soldiers are pretty pissed off.

[46:47] So, they decide not only are they going to kill Loffler, which Michael Imperioli's like,

[46:51] but he's my pride and joy.

[46:54] They also decide...

[46:55] He has to get there alive.

[46:56] We have to take him in alive.

[46:58] He's very committed.

[46:59] He is very much like...

[47:01] He watched only up to...

[47:03] He watched Aliens, but not after Paul Reiser dies.

[47:07] He's like, Paul Reiser is a good guy.

[47:10] It's all going to work out for him.

Elliott Kalan

[47:11] Hero of the movie.

[47:12] If only lousy Ripley would get out of his way and just let him do his job.

Stuart Wellington

[47:16] He just wants one of them xenomorphs.

[47:18] They also decide they want to kill the cat, which, of course, the cat in this case, the white jag,

[47:24] Nicolas Cage, not a fan of this plan.

Elliott Kalan

[47:26] Now, this would be a bad time for me to stop momentum by making up a joke about xenomorphs arrow,

[47:31] which is a classic ancient Greek paradox in which an arrow, which seems to be an image of movement,

[47:36] is actually not because a little mini arrow comes out of the front of it

[47:40] and goes through Harry Dean Stanton's head.

[47:41] Anyway, that's xenomorphs arrow.

[47:43] That was a waste of time.

[47:45] Stuart, keep going, please.

[47:48] I think that's the slogan of the podcast.

[47:50] Well, that was a waste of time.

[47:51] Wasting your time since 2007.

Stuart Wellington

[47:53] Anyway, Stu?

[47:55] So, Dr. Taylor and Frank, this is their character's name, obviously.

[47:59] It's Famke Jensen, Nicolas Cage, wander off to find Antivenom.

[48:02] And just kind of to goof off for a little bit,

[48:06] Nicolas Cage used this as an opportunity to start hunting monkeys with his blowgun,

[48:09] and it's a great scene of him dipping his little blow darts in poison and spitting them on monkeys,

[48:15] using a tube, not just using his mouth.

[48:17] That would be silly.

Elliott Kalan

[48:18] Yeah.

[48:18] That sounds like a 90s alt-rock album, hunting monkeys with his blowgun.

[48:24] I don't know why.

[48:24] Something about it.

[48:25] Standing outside a broken phone booth, hunting monkeys with my blowgun with money in my hand.

Dan McCoy

[48:30] It's a primitive radio gods.

[48:32] Yeah.

[48:32] Primitive radio Nick Cage.

[48:34] Yeah.

[48:35] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[48:36] In scenes that almost mirror each other, we see the-

Dan McCoy

[48:39] Wait, primal radio gods?

[48:40] Is that where we should talk about that?

[48:41] Primal radio gods?

[48:43] That's good.

[48:43] Anyway.

Stuart Wellington

[48:45] In scenes that almost mirror each other, we see Nicolas Cage hunting the monkeys,

[48:48] and Loeffler hunting the pilot and his guard with a rifle.

[48:53] So he kills the-

[48:53] He's the real monkey, huh?

[48:54] Yep.

[48:55] He kills the pilot and decides to-

Elliott Kalan

[48:57] The real monkey, it turns out, is man.

Stuart Wellington

[48:59] Oh, interesting.

S4

[49:01] Loeffler turns the ship around and then breaks everything.

[49:03] Go on.

[49:04] When Loeffler was shooting people through the window from far away, I had the fun thought

[49:09] for no one, wow, Kevin Durant is still really great from long range, even coming back from

[49:14] that ruptured Achilles.

[49:17] You know, kind of a basketball cage miss cross-up.

[49:20] Yeah.

[49:20] Finally.

[49:21] Finally.

Dan McCoy

[49:21] You know, I don't know anything about basketball, but I know enough that Ali's text about Kevin

[49:28] Durant confused me a little bit for a second.

S4

[49:33] That's kind of where I live, in jokes that are mostly confusing.

[49:40] So they realize the boat is-

[49:41] Is it a pun or is it a mistake?

[49:41] Who knows?

[49:42] Sorry.

Stuart Wellington

[49:43] The boat's going in the wrong direction.

[49:44] Uh-oh.

[49:46] Nicolas Cage manages to get the drop on Loeffler.

[49:48] They get in a standoff.

[49:50] This is one of-

[49:51] There's a couple more of these scenes where they basically, like, just get in a fight

[49:54] so they can interact for a little bit and talk, and then they wander off in their

[49:57] own directions.

[49:58] So they get in a standoff.

[50:00] He, Nicolas Cage, has to choose.

[50:02] Is he going to shoot the white jag or Loeffler with his one dart and his dart gun, his trank

[50:08] gun?

Elliott Kalan

[50:08] And because that jaguar, uh-oh, here it comes.

[50:11] Watch out, boys.

[50:12] It'll chew him up.

[50:13] It's a man-eater.

[50:14] Yep.

[50:14] And it might eat the kid, right?

[50:16] Yeah.

[50:16] That's where, in that moment-

[50:17] It was threatening the kid.

Stuart Wellington

[50:19] Uh-oh.

[50:19] So he, instead, of course, he shoots Loeffler, and then he scares the cat off with his, uh,

[50:24] his pistol, and Loeffler runs away.

[50:26] Scene over.

[50:27] Nothing accomplished.

[50:29] Uh, except Nicolas Cage, I guess, shows that he's grown a little bit as a person, right?

Dan McCoy

[50:33] I was a little confused by this, too, because it seemed, like, it seemed, from the way this

[50:38] scene was shot at first, that Nick Cage did hit him with the dart, but then the dart

[50:43] was on the ground.

[50:44] It didn't have anything missing from it.

[50:46] Like, the bad guy seemed okay.

Elliott Kalan

[50:49] Yeah, that was, I think that's, I think it, if I was theorizing, using information from

[50:54] later in the movie, because I had the same impression, I think the thing is, like, it

[50:58] did hit him, but he pulled it out quickly, because later he takes a couple of those darts,

[51:03] and it takes a while for the curare to kick in.

[51:07] Uh, but here, it's, uh, I think, I don't know if it's necessarily character growth for

[51:10] Nicolas Cage that he didn't let his jaguar maul a child, uh, because he's always been,

[51:15] he has that relationship with him that's kind of like a Wallace Beery type thing,

[51:18] where it's like, ah, I'm kind of mean to this kid, but I give the kid a lot of my time.

[51:22] You know, like, I'm kind of a rough, gruff guy, but the fact that I'm sitting here talking

[51:26] with the kid shows that I really have a soft heart inside.

[51:29] He's like, uh, you know, we're Ed Asner and Up, that kind of thing, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[51:32] So this is the point in the movie where we start worrying about lifeboats, right?

[51:37] There's two lifeboats, but apparently most of the crew stole one of the lifeboats and ran

[51:41] off, which is why we haven't been seeing them.

Elliott Kalan

[51:44] Really helped cut down the budget that the crew ran away with the lifeboat.

[51:47] So we have to thank them because it meant that many actors they didn't need to pay or

[51:51] show on camera ever.

S4

[51:52] And that lifeboat budget was going to go through the roof if you had to see that other lifeboat.

Stuart Wellington

[51:57] Yeah, they're, luckily they're able to reuse the, the first lifeboat for the second lifeboat

[52:01] when they shoot it so that I guess nobody can escape using it.

[52:04] But then they remember, oh yeah, there's like a second secret light, like a third secret

[52:08] lifeboat somewhere in the hold.

[52:09] We'll get to that later.

Elliott Kalan

[52:11] And now I know what you're thinking.

[52:12] I want to see Nick Cage get in that lifeboat with that white jaguar.

[52:15] Guys, that movie already exists.

[52:16] It's called Life of Pi.

[52:17] I think you're going to love it.

[52:18] It has a lot to say about the universe and our place in it.

[52:20] Continue, Stuart.

Stuart Wellington

[52:21] So, uh, Nicholas Cage storms off to find his white jag.

[52:25] Uh, Loffler kills the leader of the soldiers and a bunch of other soldiers.

[52:29] They're basically all getting killed.

[52:31] Loffler manages to jump him, beats him up, ties him up.

[52:35] Uh, we see Michael Imperioli kills one of his own guys to save Loffler.

[52:40] Wow.

[52:41] He is a traitor.

[52:42] He's got to bring him in alive.

[52:44] This jaguar showed his spots, right?

[52:47] Is that a thing?

Dan McCoy

[52:49] Based on what we find out later, I was a little unclear about Imperioli's, uh, play here.

[52:56] Cause like, it seemed like from what we learn and I'll just spoil it that this, you know, this guy used to work for the government, this bad guy.

[53:05] And then he went rogue.

[53:07] Um, and they're just kind of trying to clean up their own mess to some degree.

[53:10] Like, it seems like they would just shoot him, but I guess he might have some information that they want or something.

S4

[53:16] It, no, I'm with you at the resolution.

[53:19] Cause he's, he's so insistent.

[53:20] We've got to bring him in alive.

[53:21] I'm going to kill one of my own men so I can bring this guy in alive.

[53:24] And then at the end he was like, I have to bring him in alive.

[53:27] And he was like, well, I have compromising information on you.

[53:29] And it's like, well, that's a second reason to kill him.

[53:32] Yeah.

[53:33] There's no reasons to not.

[53:34] I mean, other than just like the goodness of human.

Elliott Kalan

[53:39] Imperioli is, they revealed that he's an NSA guy.

[53:43] He's not, he's not this, he's there under false pretenses.

[53:45] But yeah, it's never clear what, what, like if the NSA just wants to like clean up their own tracks, then killing Loeffler right now would be the,

[53:53] the best thing for them to do.

[53:55] Absolutely.

S4

[53:55] It's such an excuse.

[53:57] Cause like if they had to put up the pretense of we're bringing him in alive, we're going to give him a trial, but really they were fearing that he would expose them and all the things he, they had him do.

[54:06] You'd be like, oh, I understand this tension, but there was no tension.

[54:10] Like everybody has the same motive, which is we hate this guy who's murdering everyone.

Stuart Wellington

[54:13] I really, I really, it's really disheartening to hear you guys talk about a human life, like a number on a balance sheet right now.

[54:20] You know?

Dan McCoy

[54:21] I mean, Imperioli shot the other guy.

[54:25] So someone was going to die.

Elliott Kalan

[54:26] He slid his throat.

[54:28] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[54:28] Up close and personal.

[54:29] Like he likes it.

Elliott Kalan

[54:31] Also, these are fictional characters.

[54:33] What?

[54:35] But it does feel, there's something there that makes me think that there had to have been more going on with Michael Imperioli's character.

[54:43] And then they just like either.

S4

[54:45] Fictional characters.

[54:46] Is this the Christmas I find out Michael Imperioli isn't real?

Elliott Kalan

[54:49] Oh, I didn't want you to find out this way.

[54:51] Your parents should have told you.

[54:53] But he's got a podcast now.

[54:56] But the tequila, the tequila commercials.

[54:59] He, it's, I wonder if it's one of those cases of like, we didn't have him for as many days as we thought we had him for.

[55:06] And so the scene where he was going to like do something, we had to, we didn't shoot.

[55:09] Because it really feels like there's a big chunk of movie missing that would explain why he wants him alive.

[55:15] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[55:15] There's like three walk and talks they were planning on shooting and they just didn't do.

[55:19] And the movie is very short.

[55:22] So that also tracks that way.

Elliott Kalan

[55:24] Or like, like, cause I was, I started wondering, I'm like, is it going to turn out that like he's in love with him or something?

[55:30] Like what possible reason would he have for keeping him alive?

[55:33] And they never, is he working with him?

[55:35] Or that they were going to double cross everybody else and escape like and do crime stuff together.

[55:39] Yeah.

[55:39] But there was no.

[55:41] That never happens.

[55:42] They never tried to do it.

[55:42] So it's really, it feels like it's just a matter of like, we'll figure it out.

[55:47] We'll figure out why he's doing these things when we get to that part.

[55:49] Oh, we didn't figure it out.

[55:50] Oh, well, uh, the movie's over.

[55:51] Goodbye.

[55:52] Yeah.

[55:52] And then they take all the money from the townspeople and they skip town and to show Primal at another town, uh, hoping that word hasn't got ahead.

[55:59] Kind of on a, on a music man type.

[56:02] Yeah.

[56:03] They're doing storming bristers.

[56:04] The town's having a town meeting and they're like, we don't have any movies to show.

[56:07] Well, well folks, have I got the solution to your problems.

[56:10] Hello there.

[56:11] The name's Cage.

[56:12] Nicholas Cage.

[56:13] And I want to tell you about a little movie called Primal.

S4

[56:15] Well, the Cage movie wagon is a come and demonstrate.

Elliott Kalan

[56:23] Gary, Indiana, Gary, Indiana.

[56:26] That's not where he's from.

S4

[56:28] No, but he was in the movie about the USS Indiana.

[56:31] Yeah.

[56:32] Just use the think system on the screenplay.

Stuart Wellington

[56:35] So yeah, we're not, we're down to, uh, you know, we're in the home stretch.

[56:38] We're down to only a few characters left.

Elliott Kalan

[56:40] There were, there were cobras in his house, but he never heard them hissing.

[56:47] So they tried to kill him in his sleep and he gave them away.

Stuart Wellington

[56:53] There's a certain art to starting a sentence, knowing you're going to get interrupted for

[56:57] another song.

Elliott Kalan

[57:01] So we're down to just a few characters.

[57:03] There was a skull from a Rex, but it turned out it was stolen.

[57:08] So he had to send it back to Mongolia.

Dan McCoy

[57:12] So these songs are now about the real Nicholas Cage.

[57:15] The real Nicholas Cage.

[57:17] Character in the movie.

[57:18] Yeah.

[57:18] So we got.

Elliott Kalan

[57:19] And he was planning to be buried in New Orleans in some kind of pyramid like that.

Stuart Wellington

[57:28] Anyway.

[57:28] Yeah.

[57:29] So we got, uh, we got the doc, we got, uh, Nicholas Cage.

[57:32] We got Rafi.

[57:33] The, that's the name of the son of the captain.

[57:36] The captain's still playing to life despite the fact that his body is burning up with Bushmaster

[57:40] venom.

Dan McCoy

[57:41] Yeah.

[57:41] This is the thing.

[57:42] They like make a big deal about how like he's dead already.

[57:45] Yeah.

[57:45] And then like he, he hangs on through the movie for reasons that are never really explained.

Elliott Kalan

[57:51] He has the best case scenario, which is like everyone else is running around chasing this

[57:55] murderer being chased.

[57:56] And he just gets to sit back and just be in a snake venom coma and then gets off the ship

[58:00] and he's fine.

[58:01] You know?

Stuart Wellington

[58:01] Yeah.

[58:01] They're like, no, don't, don't worry about the killer.

[58:04] Focus on getting well.

S4

[58:08] This is kind of a goop thing, right?

[58:09] You go through a tough day in a snake venom coma.

[58:12] You get revived.

[58:13] All the toxins are out.

Stuart Wellington

[58:14] Uh-huh.

[58:15] Stick a magic egg up your butt and then you're healed.

Elliott Kalan

[58:18] Is that what they say in goop?

[58:20] Because if you stick a bag up your butt, it will turn to goop.

[58:22] It'll probably crack.

[58:23] Yep.

Stuart Wellington

[58:24] So they, they find the spare lifeboat.

[58:27] Uh, they toss it over the side.

[58:28] They're like, we're going to get free.

[58:29] And then Loeffler shows up.

[58:31] They get the gun battle.

[58:32] The special raft gets shot.

[58:35] Uh, they use the, the shipping containers to kind of evade, uh, Loeffler.

[58:39] And then Nicolas Cage goes down, grabs a fucking compound bow.

[58:44] And he's like, I'm going to go hunting.

[58:46] And he uses, uh, Famke Jensen as bait.

[58:49] And you're like, hell yeah, this movie's going to get awesome.

[58:52] Does not stay awesome for very long because we almost immediately get into a standoff where

[58:56] Frank has, uh, Famke Jensen in Frank, Frank's Nicolas Cage.

[59:01] I just fucked that up.

[59:03] So many names and my notes are so poorly written.

[59:05] Uh, Loeffler manages to get Famke Jensen.

[59:08] You're doing great still.

Elliott Kalan

[59:09] You're doing great.

[59:09] You know, we're all flawed.

[59:11] None of us are perfect.

[59:11] You're doing great.

[59:12] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[59:12] Loeffler has Famke Jensen.

[59:14] He's got his, uh, machine gun.

[59:16] He's got it like machine gun up to her head, but he's like holding it kind of awkward.

[59:19] And you're like, really?

[59:20] Is that going to work?

[59:22] Nicolas Cage has him dead to rights with his compound bow.

[59:25] He's got it pulled back and you're like, oh man, this is going to be awesome.

[59:28] But before he can shoot him, Michael Imperioli shows up and we have this three-way

[59:32] standoff where everyone's shouting.

[59:34] There's a lot of talking.

[59:35] Of course, everybody starts getting shot.

[59:38] Michael Imperioli gets killed.

[59:40] Nicolas Cage gets shot.

[59:42] Loeffler gets shot.

[59:43] Famke Jensen, not shot.

[59:45] She survives.

Dan McCoy

[59:46] Now, this scene, I want to, I, now I want to take issue with, let's call it the premise

[59:51] of this movie, which is, I, no, I think that the movie's leading up to this moment where

[59:56] it's supposed to be like, okay, well, Nicolas Cage is this expert hunter and now he is going

[1:00:03] to hunt this bad guy.

[1:00:05] Like, he's going to use.

[1:00:05] The most dangerous game.

[1:00:07] Yeah.

[1:00:07] His special abilities as a hunter.

[1:00:10] And part of the problem is, number one, as we've said before, he's not shown to be that

[1:00:14] great a hunter at the beginning of the movie.

[1:00:16] Like, he's, like, the first time we see him, he's kind of fucking up.

[1:00:19] But number two, like, his big hunting plan at this point is like, okay, Famke, your bait.

[1:00:27] Go downstairs and make a lot of noise.

[1:00:30] And, like, the bad guy immediately, like, when he captures her, he's like, okay, well,

[1:00:34] clearly you were a divergent.

[1:00:36] Like, he knows what it is.

[1:00:38] It is the simplest plan.

S4

[1:00:40] But this play was all for what happens later.

Dan McCoy

[1:00:43] Yeah.

[1:00:44] I mean, later on, he's more of a cool hunter dude, but not now.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:49] Keep it simple, stupid.

[1:00:50] That's, uh, I almost said keep it simple, Stuart, which is what I tell myself every morning.

[1:00:57] Keep it simple, Stuart.

[1:00:58] Yep.

[1:00:59] Oh, no, I messed it up.

[1:01:01] Uh, okay, so, uh, we, after the standoff, Loeffler manages to, uh, tie the doctor and

[1:01:09] the kid up, and he leaves them with a little friend.

[1:01:12] That's right.

[1:01:13] The Bushmaster from before.

[1:01:16] Hell yeah.

[1:01:16] Oh, man, this guy's so tough.

[1:01:18] You gotta watch out, because that venom will kill you over the course of an entire movie.

[1:01:22] Maybe.

[1:01:24] Uh, Frank and Loeffler getting, uh,

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:27] the Bushmaster, like, forgot to, to get a poison refill before he left the house that day,

[1:01:32] and he's just like, I gotta make a big show of this.

[1:01:34] People are counting on me.

[1:01:35] Uh, play with me.

[1:01:36] Play with me.

[1:01:37] Like, uh.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:38] And that's what the thing about the Bushmaster is, that they're normally capable of multiple

[1:01:41] venomous bites in a row.

[1:01:42] So you would, like, normally you're like, he's got plenty of venom in his thing.

[1:01:46] Like, I can't see, obviously, he doesn't have, like, a little meter above his head showing

[1:01:50] me his venom reserves.

[1:01:51] That would be crazy.

[1:01:52] Or a video game that I play.

[1:01:53] He's heating up.

[1:01:54] He's on venom.

[1:02:00] Boom.

[1:02:00] Snake-a-lock.

[1:02:01] Yeah, that's when they put Bane in, uh, NBA Jam.

[1:02:04] Is that, it's NBA Jam, right?

[1:02:06] It is NBA Jam.

S4

[1:02:07] Cool.

[1:02:08] Yeah.

S4

[1:02:08] The, um, the other thing, there's just, like, so many little things in the movie where, like,

[1:02:13] just say he'll be dead in a day without anti-venom, not 20 minutes.

[1:02:17] Like, then it makes sense that he's alive in a day.

[1:02:20] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:21] Well, maybe they, maybe he said 20 minutes, so every, every extra day he feel, like, the

[1:02:26] guy's like, oh, man, like, I got so much more time.

[1:02:29] I'm so much better at surviving this than I thought.

Dan McCoy

[1:02:31] That's more of a miracle of Jean-Claude Van Damme than Cage Me.

[1:02:35] Yeah.

[1:02:35] Or just, like, pick a less venomous snake if this is your ploy.

[1:02:39] We'll still be worried for the guy if he doesn't have any anti-venom.

[1:02:42] Right.

S4

[1:02:42] Just all those little things of, like, wait a minute.

[1:02:45] Why don't you, either both of you turn on Michael Imperioli or both of you turn on

[1:02:49] Loeffler, just, like, you have common interests.

[1:02:52] Why is this a three-way standoff?

[1:02:54] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:02:54] There's also a scene later on, like, where, like, the kid has so, or I think we actually

[1:02:59] went past it, the shoot-up, the standoff on the, at the top of the boat where, like,

[1:03:04] the deck is what it's called amongst sailors.

[1:03:07] Yeah, yeah.

[1:03:08] Where they poop.

[1:03:09] There's a shoot-off of the deck where, like, the kid has so much time to run away and

[1:03:13] he just sort of stands around.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:14] Similarly, there's a scene that we've gone past where Loeffler calls into the Coast Guard,

[1:03:19] pretending to be a U.S.

[1:03:20] Marshal, and calling in for a helicopter and some food, and they're like, we'll be there

[1:03:23] in one hour.

[1:03:24] And I'm like, okay, that's the ticking clock.

[1:03:26] They've got one hour to stop him before he escapes.

[1:03:28] Never comes up again.

[1:03:29] It's so, like, it's not an issue.

[1:03:31] Not something they needed to have in there.

[1:03:33] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:03:33] Doesn't speak well to the Coast Guard's ability to deliver within an hour, right?

[1:03:37] Yeah.

[1:03:38] And this is definitely...

S4

[1:03:39] You get the medevac for free if they take more than an hour.

Dan McCoy

[1:03:43] Wow.

[1:03:44] And those are expensive.

[1:03:45] No, this is definitely one of those action movies, too, where the villain shoots or allows

[1:03:51] people to live at the whims of the screenplay.

[1:03:54] Yeah.

[1:03:55] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:56] I think that the walkie-talkie thing where he's talking to the Coast Guard, I realize

[1:03:59] now it's there to pay off.

[1:04:00] Early on, he says to the U.S.

[1:04:02] Marshal, oh, you're from Virginia, but you grew up in this place, and that's why your accent

[1:04:06] sounds like that.

[1:04:07] And I guess he's supposed to be, like, mimicking his accent over the call.

[1:04:11] But it just sounds like his regular voice.

[1:04:13] And it's like, I don't buy him as, like, a Hannibal Lecter-level, like, chameleon.

[1:04:18] You know?

S4

[1:04:18] He just sounds kind of friendlier.

[1:04:21] Over a radio, the Coast Guard is going to be like, wait a minute.

[1:04:27] This isn't a Virginia accent.

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:29] I'm looking at your Facebook page, and it says that you grew up in Virginia, but you

Dan McCoy

[1:04:34] don't sound like a Virginian.

[1:04:36] Yeah, I called up a YouTube thing, one of those ones where someone explains a bunch of accents,

[1:04:41] and this doesn't sound like Virginia.

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:43] See, I was catfished this one time, and ever since I've been extra careful.

Dan McCoy

[1:04:48] Fool me once.

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:50] Shame on me.

[1:04:52] Shame on you.

[1:04:53] Yeah.

[1:04:55] So we have our big climax.

[1:04:57] That's right.

[1:04:58] We're back in Nicolas Cage's menagerie room, filled with empty cages and a couple of tapirs

[1:05:04] and monkeys.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:05] The ironic thing is, I'm sure at Nick Cage's house, he does have a menagerie room.

[1:05:08] I'm sure he does.

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:09] So he's running around, shooting Loffler with blowgun darts.

[1:05:14] He manages to get a couple of them in him before they both whip out knives, and we have a knife

[1:05:18] fight.

[1:05:18] It's looking tight, but eventually the poison manages to whittle down Loffler, who gets his

[1:05:24] ankle stuck in a noose, and then he gets hauled up and then left to be a meal for a white

[1:05:31] jag who shows up and is like, thanks for the handoff, dude.

[1:05:34] And then he gives Nicolas Cage a high five.

[1:05:36] Tag in.

[1:05:37] Tag in.

[1:05:37] Tag me in.

Dan McCoy

[1:05:38] Yeah.

[1:05:38] I do want to say, I mean, like, it's hard.

[1:05:40] This movie is shot very dimly.

[1:05:43] Beautifully.

[1:05:43] A lot.

[1:05:44] Yeah.

[1:05:45] And so it's hard to tell what's a stunt man.

[1:05:48] But when I do see Nicolas Cage's face, I'm like, oh yeah, not bad.

[1:05:51] Not bad, Nick Cage.

[1:05:51] You're still, I mean, like, he's 56 years old.

[1:05:53] He's not in his prime, prime Con Air shape, but he's, he's doing well.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:57] Yeah.

[1:05:57] There's a, there's a, one of the earlier fights between him and Loffler.

[1:06:00] Loffler's about to shoot him and Nick Cage jumps up and slaps the gun out of the way

[1:06:04] and kind of like launches himself.

[1:06:05] And that one moment, I was like, that was a really, like, I was impressed by that move.

[1:06:09] I was like, the, the speed and the aim and that move.

S4

[1:06:12] Uh, the director was a guy who was a stunt director and coordinator, I think previously.

[1:06:18] Yeah.

[1:06:18] And so I was like, oh, this checks out.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:20] Yeah.

[1:06:21] Uh, something I want to mention about the Jaguar, cause this is our last opportunity.

[1:06:24] Every now and then you get to see a little bit of Jaguar vision and it is like blurry and

[1:06:29] black.

[1:06:30] It's like fisheye and black and white.

[1:06:31] And I'm like, so the ultimate hunter in the jungle sea is worse than I do.

[1:06:35] A man who needs glasses.

[1:06:36] Like this is ridiculous.

S4

[1:06:38] Yeah.

[1:06:39] It was the, the, that ploy at the end to, to get him into the loop.

[1:06:44] Like you could re he was really telling a graph, but you like telegraphing it.

[1:06:47] Like it was borderline, like a little to the left.

[1:06:51] And then, uh, and then I turned and said to my wife who graciously watched this movie with

[1:06:55] me, I said, uh, you know, in screenwriting, sometimes you save the cat and sometimes the

[1:06:58] cat saves you.

[1:06:59] And again, a joke for no one to enjoy.

[1:07:02] Yeah.

[1:07:02] I had to say it out loud.

[1:07:03] So it didn't poison my brain.

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:07] Luckily you saved it for the podcast.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:09] So, uh, you diffused that poison out among multiple people so that it's not dangerous.

[1:07:15] It's just irritating.

[1:07:16] Yeah.

[1:07:16] Ringu style.

S4

[1:07:17] It's more of a, uh, primal Bushmaster level venom.

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:21] So Nicholas Cage has saved the day.

[1:07:23] A bunch of guys show up.

[1:07:24] Uh, they're like, oh, cool.

[1:07:26] Well, you can leave with all your, uh, treasured animals as long as we see your paperwork.

[1:07:30] And he's like, uh, and then Fomke Jensen shows up and was like, uh, Loffler burned his

[1:07:35] paperwork.

[1:07:36] Which is awesome.

[1:07:37] What an awesome lie.

[1:07:39] Great.

[1:07:39] So good.

[1:07:41] Encouraging this fucking poacher.

[1:07:43] Well done.

[1:07:44] And he's like, oh man, maybe we're going to, uh, maybe we're going to get married or something.

[1:07:48] I don't know.

[1:07:48] Like, doesn't he, doesn't he talk about how he's like, oh, maybe I'm going to go to the

[1:07:51] same place she's at so we can start this dating in earnest.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:54] Yeah.

[1:07:55] Well, she, she, she gives him the parrot about it.

[1:07:57] When she gives him her number in Adelphi in case he's ever around there.

[1:08:02] And he goes, he says to his parrot, he's like, they've got a zoo in Adelphi.

[1:08:04] Cause we learned earlier he worked at what?

[1:08:06] Eight zoos in 10 years.

S4

[1:08:08] Cause that's so funny.

[1:08:10] Such a funny detail.

[1:08:11] And she's like, you have a problem with authority.

Elliott Kalan

[1:08:15] I want to see so badly the prequel to Primal.

[1:08:17] That's kind of like Primal beginnings was just him as like the shittiest zoo employee.

[1:08:21] It's like always getting his boss mad at him.

[1:08:24] Like he just can't, can't remember to close the door on the gorilla cage or something.

[1:08:28] And they get out.

S4

[1:08:29] Like, I don't know.

[1:08:29] Like in what world do you even get hired at zoo number six?

[1:08:33] Yeah.

[1:08:34] Five years.

Dan McCoy

[1:08:35] I do not think this is a profession where they keep giving you chances.

S4

[1:08:38] It's like priests and cops where you just like kill an endangered animal.

[1:08:43] Or you kill a fucking iguana.

[1:08:45] And then they just like move you to another parish.

Elliott Kalan

[1:08:50] Transfer him, transfer him to San Diego.

[1:08:51] Anything goes over there.

[1:08:52] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:08:54] Okay.

[1:08:54] Nicholas Cage.

[1:08:55] You're going to have to turn out your pockets.

[1:08:56] Yeah.

[1:08:56] No, I see the zoo books stuffed in your pockets.

[1:09:01] No, those are not.

[1:09:02] You didn't bring those from home.

[1:09:03] I know you stole those.

[1:09:04] I see the cockatoos stuffed in your.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:06] So he's, he's doing the interviews too.

[1:09:08] You're saying it's his job interview and he's cheating off of a zoo book that's stuffed

[1:09:11] in his pocket.

Stuart Wellington

[1:09:11] I was just saying that he worked in the, in the gift shop at the zoo.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:14] Oh, I see.

[1:09:15] I see.

S4

[1:09:15] He's just stealing copies of the magazine.

[1:09:17] He's like a bad-ass zoo employee.

[1:09:19] He's like, you know, I've met Ranger Rick.

[1:09:21] He's a fucking animal.

Stuart Wellington

[1:09:23] I mean, yeah, he's a raccoon, right?

S4

[1:09:25] Yeah.

[1:09:25] He is.

[1:09:25] Yeah.

[1:09:26] But like, he's a savage.

Dan McCoy

[1:09:28] I want to say, uh, this ending too is, is what I referred to before where they make a slight

[1:09:33] stab at making you think, oh, this, this poacher isn't so bad.

[1:09:36] Cause he's like, oh, I'm going to take this cat to a reserve for endangered animals.

[1:09:42] I'm not going to sell it to a zoo for big money.

[1:09:45] And you're like, okay, great.

[1:09:46] I guess you're wonderful now.

S4

[1:09:49] You're not going to have your, your, uh, you're not going to get your house to show up your

[1:09:53] dad.

[1:09:54] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:09:56] I mean, I'm glad he has a change of heart, but it does seem like just an afterthought

[1:10:00] of the movie.

[1:10:01] Like, uh, okay.

[1:10:02] And he's not, not bad.

[1:10:05] He's okay.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:06] Wait, did we talk about that?

[1:10:07] I forget about how his, his motivation behind buying a house is to be so his dad can come

[1:10:11] over and not use his fishing boat and he can just show him how great his life is and make

[1:10:15] his dad mad about it.

[1:10:17] Yeah, I get it.

[1:10:18] I've been there, man.

S4

[1:10:20] It's so funny.

[1:10:21] He's like, this whole thing is to spite his father.

[1:10:24] Like there's all these threads that they kind of, there's like a bunch of balls that they throw

[1:10:28] in the air and then don't even try to, they're just like, Hey, check out the

[1:10:32] guy how many balls we threw.

[1:10:33] That's pretty cool.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:34] He's a super badass.

[1:10:36] He's a super badass hunter who has serious daddy issues and cannot hold a job at a zoo.

[1:10:41] He's just like, he's got a lot going for him.

Dan McCoy

[1:10:43] He has a parrot that follows him around.

[1:10:44] It's not his parrot until the end of the movie where he names him.

S4

[1:10:47] They're kind of frenemies.

[1:10:50] And then Famke Jansen's character.

Dan McCoy

[1:10:52] Is that your, is that your parrot, Frank?

S4

[1:10:54] No, he's kind of a frenemy of mine.

[1:10:58] We went to college together.

[1:10:59] We like hang out when he's in town.

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:02] But I don't even know why.

[1:11:04] I mean, like he'll be in town.

[1:11:05] Get this.

[1:11:05] He'll be in town.

[1:11:06] He'll call me to hang out on the last night when he's about to leave.

[1:11:10] And he's like, Hey, Hey, can I stay at your place?

[1:11:12] And it's like, you weren't going to get in touch with me until the place you were staying

[1:11:14] fell through, were you?

[1:11:16] But I let him.

[1:11:16] Cause you know, we've got those memories, you know?

Stuart Wellington

[1:11:18] And we went out to dinner and like the check came and I'm like, I don't know.

[1:11:21] 50, 50 is fine.

[1:11:23] Right?

[1:11:23] Like, I guess, but like he doesn't even reach for that thing.

[1:11:26] He just lets me pick it up every time.

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:29] That parrot, we'd go out for tapas, our group of friends, and he'd just put down like eight

[1:11:33] bucks and be like, I got to run.

[1:11:34] This should cover me.

[1:11:35] And we'd each have to pay like $60.

[1:11:38] And nothing came down to my end of the table.

[1:11:39] Oh yeah.

[1:11:40] Like that makes up for it.

Dan McCoy

[1:11:42] I, you know, I've come to, I've come to enjoy tapas as I've made my way in the world and

[1:11:47] now can, uh, can go out for tapas on occasion.

[1:11:50] But man, that, when I was young, what a bad idea for, for a group of friends to go out for

[1:11:55] tapas.

[1:11:55] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:11:55] It's terrible.

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:56] I mean, it's, it's essentially a scam where they're like, here are, here's your dinner.

[1:12:00] It is four tiny pieces of something and that will be $75.

[1:12:06] But there's, but there's five of us.

S4

[1:12:08] Have you ever been to a place where they, you don't know that it's tapas?

[1:12:11] You're like, oh, this place looks good.

[1:12:12] The menu looks good.

[1:12:13] All the food is a regular price.

[1:12:14] And then it comes and it's like a, you're like, is this a prank?

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:19] I remember visiting friends in Portland and they were like, we got to go to this restaurant.

[1:12:23] It's great.

[1:12:23] We'll go for brunch.

[1:12:24] And I'm like, I could really go for a big brunch.

[1:12:26] Love it.

[1:12:27] What'll I have?

[1:12:27] And then we sit down and they're like, and the waitress says, now we are a small plates,

[1:12:33] a family style sharing restaurant.

[1:12:34] And I, and I almost walked out of the restaurant.

[1:12:37] I was so mad.

[1:12:38] I felt like I'd been brought there under such false pretenses.

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:41] There's some quality, like 90s CBS style jokes here, guys.

S4

[1:12:45] Every small, I still am mad about it.

[1:12:48] I'm as mad about it as Paul Reiser was mad about it.

[1:12:52] I'm mad about you, I imagine.

[1:12:54] No, no.

[1:12:54] But that was a different kind of mad.

[1:12:56] I'm crazy for tapas.

[1:12:59] Small, small plates and family style always go together.

[1:13:02] And it's like, what is this?

[1:13:03] A depression, great depression themed restaurant?

[1:13:06] There's only a little bit of food and we all have to share it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:08] Look guys, we've got it.

[1:13:09] This is going to cost us a lot of money.

[1:13:11] We've got to stretch it.

[1:13:11] We've got to make it last.

[1:13:12] So don't, nobody's greedy.

[1:13:14] Now, what if mad about you was originally called mad at you and it was about a couple that needed a divorce but they refused to divorce because their apartment was so great?

[1:13:22] And then CBS was like, we love it.

[1:13:24] We were wondering if the couple could be in love still.

[1:13:26] And Paul Reiser's like, how am I going to make this work?

[1:13:29] How could I possibly make this work?

Dan McCoy

[1:13:31] I mean, you watch that show, they're barely in love.

[1:13:35] Those characters.

[1:13:37] That would have been a good name for it.

[1:13:38] Barely in love.

[1:13:39] Barely in love.

Stuart Wellington

[1:13:41] People would have thought it would start bears.

[1:13:43] So let's close the book on this guy.

Dan McCoy

[1:13:47] It's a movie.

[1:13:47] Let's do our final judgments about whether this is a good, bad movie, a bad, bad movie.

[1:13:51] A movie we kind of liked.

[1:13:53] This, you know, as always, barely fits into any of these categories.

[1:13:58] Like, I was watching it, you know, Audrey got bored pretty quickly and then she was like, this is bad, bad, right?

[1:14:04] And then she's like, or did I not pay enough attention to it?

[1:14:08] And I'm like, well, the fact that you stopped paying attention to it indicates that, yes, it is boring in a lot of ways.

[1:14:14] But you probably would enjoy it more if you, like, engaged with it.

[1:14:18] Like, there's stuff in it that I liked.

[1:14:20] I liked Nicolas Cage.

[1:14:22] I liked the villain.

[1:14:23] Famke Janssen doesn't get a whole lot to do, but I like her as a presence in movies.

[1:14:28] And she felt, like, nice and competent.

[1:14:31] Like, she just exuded competence in it.

[1:14:35] And whenever it went big, it was kind of fun.

[1:14:38] But so much of this movie just, like, does not engage with what makes the premise fun.

[1:14:42] The premise is fun because there's a bunch of these animals loose on this damn ship.

[1:14:46] And that feels like an afterthought.

[1:14:49] Like, most of it is just, like, walking through, like, warehouse, like, the hold of the ship with guns, you know.

[1:14:58] And it's poorly lit, poorly shot.

[1:15:01] So, you know, sometimes I kind of liked it.

[1:15:03] Sometimes I thought it was just bad.

[1:15:04] What do you guys have to say?

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:06] Yeah, I'm with you, Dan.

[1:15:08] I would say, I don't know.

[1:15:10] I think this is a movie I actually kind of liked.

[1:15:12] It's, like, dumb in a way that I enjoy.

[1:15:15] It is, as Josh said, like, it throws a bunch of balls in the air.

[1:15:19] It does not really care if they catch any of them.

[1:15:23] It's, like, the action scenes are not particularly thrilling.

[1:15:27] But it was, like, I don't know.

[1:15:28] It was dumb in exactly the way I want a movie I watch for The Flop House to be.

[1:15:32] And, yeah, the actors were fun to watch kind of act in the movie.

[1:15:36] Yeah.

[1:15:37] Thumbs up.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:38] Yeah.

[1:15:38] It's, like, a thumbs sideways movie.

[1:15:41] It's, like, not terrible.

[1:15:43] It feels really like, you know what?

[1:15:46] Like, we've said it before.

[1:15:47] Like, I'm sick.

[1:15:48] I'm lying on the couch.

[1:15:50] It's a Saturday afternoon.

[1:15:52] This is available.

[1:15:53] Okay.

[1:15:54] Sure.

[1:15:54] This will be fine.

[1:15:55] It, like, is never quite what Stolen is, you know.

[1:15:58] Yeah.

[1:15:58] But it's, like, kind of, like, Stolen.

Dan McCoy

[1:16:00] Yeah.

[1:16:00] It's one of those movies that's sort of fun, but you won't be mad if you fall asleep.

S4

[1:16:04] For sure.

[1:16:06] That's a perfect way to, it's, like, however much of the movie you watch, you'll enjoy that much.

[1:16:11] It's, like, a continental breakfast movie.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:15] I mean, it's, I think it's a better movie if you fall asleep for a certain amount of it.

[1:16:18] Because it's, like, a repetitive movie where, like you said, Dan, it doesn't live up to the premise of they're trapped on a ship with a killer and a bunch of killer animals.

[1:16:26] Yeah.

[1:16:26] Like, so it's kind of like, if you watch the beginning of it and then fell asleep and dreamed most of the movie and then woke up for the very end, you'd probably have a pretty positive experience.

[1:16:35] Yeah.

[1:16:35] You'd have a better story.

[1:16:36] Yeah.

S4

[1:16:37] I don't think it was a bad, bad movie because there was, at no point was I, like, mad that I was watching it.

[1:16:44] It, like, it's 97 minutes.

[1:16:46] There's, like, enough fun stuff where I'm, like, ah, the, they, he teased that the snakes were there and then the snakes, great.

[1:16:53] And he, he's got a bow and shoots the guy through the shoulder and the bow and he pushes the arrow through his shoulder.

[1:16:59] It's, like, just, like, I, I, so I don't, but I also don't think it's good.

[1:17:03] Like, like, good, bad movie in that it's not tight.

[1:17:06] It doesn't pay off the stuff you want it to pay off.

[1:17:08] The, the Michael Imperioli stuff, the, uh, the parrot saying, talking about the gun doesn't, like, pay off in a very satisfying way.

[1:17:16] But I do think, I, I, my dad has a phrase for a movie like this where he describes it as heaven.

[1:17:21] I texted this to him immediately after I finished.

[1:17:23] I said, have you seen, uh, Primal with Nicolas Cage?

[1:17:26] It's got a lot of good beaten up.

[1:17:28] And it felt very 90s.

[1:17:31] Like, it felt like, here's the premise.

[1:17:33] We're just going to do more or less do that for 90 minutes.

[1:17:37] And then you're going to go home and you're going to forget whether it was this one or that one that the monkeys ate the cook.

Dan McCoy

[1:17:43] Yeah, I do think that, like, there is something to, uh, it might just be pure nostalgia of, like, us all being the same sort of general generation.

[1:17:52] Like, these sorts of action movies were more of a part of our youth.

[1:17:58] And now, you know, like, anything that isn't a big blockbuster does get sort of shunted off like this film did.

[1:18:06] And so, I do think that, yeah, I, I am more apt to be gentle on a movie like this, too, because I'm like, oh, you know, like, a basic action movie.

[1:18:15] With, like, a premise, but not, like, a lot of bells and whistles.

S4

[1:18:20] Yeah, I, I like that kind of thing.

[1:18:22] And, and I'm, I'm happy.

[1:18:23] I think it was, it did a good enough job where that it wasn't, like, super, it wasn't perfectly executed.

[1:18:28] But, also, I didn't feel like I was being insulted watching it, um, where they were just, like, look, some idiot's gonna watch this on a plane.

[1:18:35] And, and, and that's how we make the money.

[1:18:37] Or, like, whatever.

[1:18:38] I, I, so I will say, I, I kind of liked it.

[1:18:40] Dan, like you said, a nostalgia for those Seagal, Van Damme, Cage movies of, like, the mid-90s.

Stuart Wellington

[1:18:47] And, basically, no animals got killed in the movie, right?

S4

[1:18:50] Basically.

[1:18:51] Those two parrots, right?

[1:18:53] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1:18:54] Loeffler does shoot two parrots, point blank, but.

[1:18:56] The least, the least, I think they chose that specifically, right?

[1:19:00] Because they couldn't kill the snakes for plot reasons.

[1:19:02] And they were like, we can't kill a mammal, that's fucked up.

[1:19:05] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:05] People won't stand for it.

[1:19:07] Yeah.

S5

[1:19:12] Hi, it's me, Dave Hill, from before.

[1:19:15] Here to tell you about my brand new show on Maximum Fun, the Dave Hill Good Time Hour.

[1:19:19] Which combines my old Maximum Fun show, Dave Hill's podcasting incident, with my old radio show,

[1:19:25] The Goddamn Dave Hill Show, into one new futuristic program from the future.

[1:19:29] If you like delightful conversation with incredible guests, technical difficulties,

[1:19:33] and actual phone calls from real-life listeners, you've just hit a street called easy.

[1:19:38] I'm also joined by my incredible co-host, the boy criminal, Chris Gersbeck.

[1:19:42] Say hi, Chris.

[1:19:43] Hey, Dave.

[1:19:44] It's really great.

[1:19:45] That's good enough, Chris.

[1:19:45] And New Jersey chicken rancher, Des.

[1:19:47] Say hi, Des.

[1:19:48] Hey, Dave.

[1:19:49] The Dave Hill Good Time Hour.

[1:19:51] Brand new episodes every Friday on Maximum Fun.

S4

[1:19:54] Plus, the show's not even an hour.

[1:19:56] It's 90 minutes.

S5

[1:19:57] Take that, stupid rules.

[1:19:59] We nailed it.

S6

[1:20:00] Does our podcast deep dive into the weirdest Wikipedia pages we can find?

[1:20:05] Yes.

[1:20:05] Do we learn about scam artists, remote islands, horrible mascots, beautiful diseases, and mythical

[1:20:10] monsters?

[1:20:11] Yes, yes, yes, absolutely, and yes.

[1:20:13] Do we retain any of this knowledge?

[1:20:15] Eh.

[1:20:16] Probably not.

[1:20:17] I'm Emily Heller.

[1:20:18] I'm Lisa Hannah-Walt.

[1:20:19] We make art and comedy and TV shows and also the podcast Baby Geniuses.

[1:20:24] For the past eight years, we've been trying to learn new things about the world and each

[1:20:27] other every episode.

[1:20:28] But let's be honest, this podcast is mostly about two friends hanging out, shooting the breeze,

[1:20:32] and making each other laugh.

[1:20:34] We're horny, we like gardening and horses, and we get real stupid on here.

[1:20:38] Well, like, in a smart way.

[1:20:39] Yeah.

[1:20:40] Join us every other week on Maximum Fun.

Elliott Kalan

[1:20:42] Baby Geniuses.

[1:20:43] Tell us something we don't know.

Dan McCoy

[1:20:45] I think we have a couple of Jumbotrons this week.

[1:20:51] The biggest of Trons.

Stuart Wellington

[1:20:52] Stuart, why don't you kick us off?

[1:20:53] J-j-j-jumbotrons.

[1:20:54] Of course, Dan, I would love to.

[1:20:56] Let me do this.

[1:20:58] Oh, I know why this one was given to me.

[1:21:01] Anime has invaded our world.

[1:21:04] Goku is a household name, but most parents don't know that he started out in the Japanese

[1:21:09] comics anthology magazine, Weekly Shonen Jump.

[1:21:14] But for every Dragon Ball Z, there's a series that died in obscurity.

[1:21:19] Why?

[1:21:19] On each episode of the podcast Shonen Flop, David and Jordan read a canceled jump series and

[1:21:28] determine if it was a forgotten gem or if it was really, truly a flop.

[1:21:34] Please do not sue us over the title.

[1:21:37] So subscribe to Shonen Flop on your podcast app of choice and follow our Twitter at Shonen

[1:21:44] Flopcast.

[1:21:46] Wow, you gave it to me because I'm the ultimate otaku.

Elliott Kalan

[1:21:51] That's what they call him, ultimate otaku.

[1:21:53] I have a Jumbotron too, so maybe this is the same kind of niche nerd.

[1:21:59] Excitement.

[1:21:59] We'll find out.

[1:22:00] Okay, so if you'd rather buy from local businesses than corporate websites, Sook lets you do it

[1:22:05] with one click.

[1:22:06] A free shopping assistant for Chrome, Sook makes it easy to browse and buy from the best

[1:22:10] small businesses in your community.

[1:22:12] Whether you're looking for clothing, home decor, kids gear, or more, Sook makes it easy, convenient,

[1:22:16] and affordable to spend your money where you live.

[1:22:20] Sook is free for small businesses and the communities that love them.

[1:22:22] Know a small business we should add?

[1:22:24] Just email us.

[1:22:25] So go download Sook.

[1:22:27] It's S-O-O-K for free from the Chrome store.

[1:22:30] That's S-O-O-K from the Chrome store.

Dan McCoy

[1:22:33] And I think, Elliot, you had a quick plug that you wanted to do.

Elliott Kalan

[1:22:38] I did.

[1:22:39] So I have a comic book series coming out next year from Aftershock Comics.

[1:22:43] It's called Maniac of New York, and it is available for pre-order now.

[1:22:46] So call up your local comic book store.

[1:22:48] Say, hey, I want to get Maniac of New York.

[1:22:51] It's kind of a take about a masked killer who is running loose in Manhattan, taking Manhattan,

[1:22:56] if you will.

[1:22:57] It's a completely original idea based on nothing.

[1:22:59] And it is by me and the great artist Andrea Muti, who you may know from Hellblazer, among

[1:23:04] other things.

[1:23:06] I'm very excited about it.

[1:23:07] It comes out next year from Aftershock Comics, Maniac of New York.

[1:23:10] Pre-order it now.

Stuart Wellington

[1:23:11] And is it inspired or related in any way to the short comic we did when we did our batch

[1:23:18] of charity comics that are available on our website?

[1:23:20] Yes.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:20] Great.

[1:23:21] That's a good point.

[1:23:22] If you want to get kind of a sneak peek of it, there is a comic book of the same name

[1:23:25] available on our Flophouse website.

[1:23:28] You can buy it now, and all the money goes to charity.

[1:23:32] And that was kind of a demo run, you might say, for this.

[1:23:36] That was kind of like me brainstorming ideas that I am then using in a greater narrative

[1:23:42] sense in this one.

[1:23:43] So yeah, good call, Stuart.

[1:23:45] If you want a sneak peek, just go do that, and all that money will go to a good cause.

[1:23:50] If you're a sneak peek freak.

Dan McCoy

[1:23:53] Let us move on to letters from listeners like you.

[1:24:00] Anyway, this first one is from...

Elliott Kalan

[1:24:03] What?

[1:24:04] You seem like you were opening that up for a...

[1:24:07] What you said had a lot of closure to it, and then suddenly you opened it up in a way

[1:24:11] that made me ask questions about what was going on in the situation.

[1:24:14] Yeah, well, I mean...

[1:24:15] It became ambiguous.

[1:24:16] It was very concrete and it became ambiguous.

Dan McCoy

[1:24:18] If you're listening, you don't know, maybe this was your letter.

[1:24:22] Until you hear it, it's like a Schrodinger's letter.

[1:24:26] Schrodinger's letter.

Elliott Kalan

[1:24:26] Well, Schrodinger's letter was, Dear Petco, I'm not sure if my cat is alive or dead.

[1:24:30] How do I find out?

S4

[1:24:32] And Petco's like, dude, this is not on us.

Elliott Kalan

[1:24:35] Does Schrodinger's...

[1:24:37] I want a refund, or maybe I don't.

[1:24:39] It depends on what happens when I open the box.

Stuart Wellington

[1:24:41] Does Schrodinger have really nice handwriting?

[1:24:44] Because he's a really good pianist, right?

Dan McCoy

[1:24:46] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:24:47] He loves Beethoven.

[1:24:48] We don't have him practicing.

[1:24:50] We don't have him doing this.

[1:24:50] I was in the process of thinking, is there a Schrodinger joke here?

[1:24:54] And I had decided there wasn't, so I'm glad that you jumped in.

[1:25:00] So this letter is from Trevor, not Noah, last name withheld.

[1:25:06] Which only makes me think it's Trevor.

[1:25:07] It's more likely, yeah.

[1:25:09] Yeah.

[1:25:09] Possibly, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:25:10] Does he refer to you as employee, Dan?

Stuart Wellington

[1:25:13] You should read it in his accent, Dan.

S4

[1:25:17] Just in case it's him.

Dan McCoy

[1:25:21] It would be insulting not to, Dan.

[1:25:23] It is impossible to do a South African accent.

[1:25:24] It is so hard.

[1:25:26] Yeah, no one's ever done one.

[1:25:29] So, this, yeah, from Trevor, not Noah, last name withheld.

[1:25:33] Hey, Peaches.

[1:25:34] I'm a big fan of the Flophouse, but my wife has only heard bits and pieces,

[1:25:38] usually while riding in the car together.

[1:25:41] We had just finished watching a TV show, and out of nowhere,

[1:25:44] she looked over at me and said,

[1:25:46] Bow!

[1:25:47] Ma-mow!

[1:25:49] I thought maybe this had something to do with our cat, who was sitting nearby.

[1:25:52] But when I didn't respond, she stared at me and smiled.

[1:25:56] Um, um, okay.

[1:25:58] I said, not sure what she was expecting.

[1:26:01] Yeah.

[1:26:01] Louder this time.

[1:26:02] Uh-huh.

[1:26:03] Bow!

[1:26:03] Ma-mow!

[1:26:04] You know, like the cat.

[1:26:06] Uh-huh.

[1:26:06] I thought about the thousands of cats I know, both real and fictional.

[1:26:11] I never thought she would bring up your show.

[1:26:14] From the Flophouse, she said.

[1:26:16] She was very excited to use a reference to something I liked.

[1:26:19] Yeah.

[1:26:19] Oh, I responded.

[1:26:21] Uh, no, it's Rorau, but she was not deterred.

[1:26:23] I told her I would write this.

[1:26:25] Rorau is better.

[1:26:26] Yeah.

[1:26:27] I told her I would write this email, and she hasn't stopped misquoting the beloved house

[1:26:31] cat ever since.

[1:26:32] There's no deep philosophical question here.

[1:26:35] I thought you guys might enjoy knowing there's some portion of the population that is acquainted

[1:26:39] with your podcast, even if they don't know the details.

[1:26:42] Thanks for keeping me sane in 2020, Trevor.

[1:26:45] Okay.

[1:26:46] What a delightful story.

Stuart Wellington

[1:26:47] So, I think there is a 50-50 chance they were either watching Blue Bloods or MasterChef

[1:26:53] Jr.

Dan McCoy

[1:26:54] What do you guys think?

[1:26:55] Like, why are you?

[1:26:57] I mean, are you?

[1:26:58] I show your work on this one.

Stuart Wellington

[1:26:59] Are we betting on this?

[1:27:00] Are you asking us?

[1:27:01] Yes.

[1:27:01] Are we supposed to take that action?

[1:27:02] I need to see, Elliot, pull some money out.

[1:27:05] I need proof that you're actually good for it.

Dan McCoy

[1:27:07] Okay.

[1:27:08] Well, all right.

[1:27:09] Let's go round table.

[1:27:11] Say what show we think that they're watching, and if any of us gets it right, this letter

[1:27:16] writer must write in.

[1:27:18] So, you're saying either Blue Bloods or what was the other one?

S4

[1:27:22] MasterChef Jr., obviously.

[1:27:23] Was there a cat on the show?

[1:27:25] I just got totally derailed by how he knows thousands of cats.

Dan McCoy

[1:27:31] I don't think they specified.

[1:27:32] Well, he saw the Brett Gelman show, so that's why.

[1:27:34] Yeah.

[1:27:35] Yeah.

[1:27:37] That's a joke for only the people here.

Elliott Kalan

[1:27:39] I'm sure there's somebody else who has been to the UCB theater at some point in the early

[1:27:44] 2000s who might have seen that show.

Dan McCoy

[1:27:46] I'm going to say they were watching The Repair Shop, which is a very comforting show on Netflix.

Elliott Kalan

[1:27:53] Anyone else?

[1:27:54] I'm going to say it was either Young Sheldon.

[1:27:58] Oh, wow.

[1:27:59] Or Dark.

[1:28:02] They're kind of the same show.

[1:28:04] Yep.

Dan McCoy

[1:28:05] Josh, do you have a guess here?

S4

[1:28:07] I feel like they said, he said watching TV, but I think on TV they were watching the movie

[1:28:10] Inside Lou and Damien.

Elliott Kalan

[1:28:12] Wow.

[1:28:13] There is a cat in it.

[1:28:14] All right.

[1:28:15] A famous cat featuring film.

[1:28:16] There are a couple of cats.

[1:28:18] Now, I'm just excited because this means we have reached that legendary status where people

[1:28:23] are regularly misquoting us and thinking that they're quoting us, our show.

[1:28:27] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:28:27] Yeah.

[1:28:28] That's our play it again, Sam, you know, is bow, ma-mau.

[1:28:33] Is that from Cheers?

[1:28:34] That's from Cheers.

[1:28:35] Yeah.

[1:28:35] The episode where he brought in his sousaphone.

[1:28:39] They were trying to get him to return to baseball.

S4

[1:28:42] They were like, I'll play it again, Sam.

Elliott Kalan

[1:28:45] That like someday in the future, someone's going to go, there's going to be some, you

[1:28:49] know, BuzzFeed article that's like, bow, ma-mau, here's what they were actually saying

[1:28:54] on the Flophouse.

S4

[1:28:55] Yeah.

[1:28:56] It's a real Mandela effect.

Elliott Kalan

[1:28:58] Yeah.

[1:28:59] Oh, let me, I was, followers from my Twitter account will know that I have a beef about this,

[1:29:03] which is that I think it's real unfair that Nelson Mandela, a global hero of freedom,

[1:29:08] that his name got put on the effect that is basically just people being like, no-uh.

S4

[1:29:13] Wait.

[1:29:14] Oh, the Mandela effect, do you mean bringing liberation to a people, an oppressed people

[1:29:18] in a nation against all odds?

[1:29:21] No, no, no, no, no, no.

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:21] No, no, no.

[1:29:22] It's showing incredible resilience and endurance for decades until finally the moral arc of

[1:29:26] the universe bends towards justice.

[1:29:28] No, no, no.

[1:29:28] It's about thinking that it's Berenstein bears.

[1:29:31] Yeah.

[1:29:32] So I want to, I'm trying to create a movement so that the Mandela effect becomes the name

[1:29:36] for when you get superhuman strength to lift a car off of a child that's been pinned

[1:29:39] under it.

[1:29:40] Let's see if it works out.

[1:29:42] Everybody, that's the Mandela effect now.

[1:29:44] Okay, well.

[1:29:45] And the other one is the Babalu Mandel effect.

[1:29:47] When you remember something wrong, that's now named after screenwriter Babalu Mandel,

[1:29:52] writer of Gung Ho, among other movies.

Dan McCoy

[1:29:54] Who's the other member of that team?

[1:29:56] Lowell Gans.

[1:29:57] Yeah.

[1:29:58] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:59] McGans and Mandel.

Dan McCoy

[1:30:00] Yeah.

[1:30:02] Funniest, funniest names in comedy writing teams.

[1:30:06] Lowell Gans and Babalu Mandel.

Elliott Kalan

[1:30:08] I think they got the jobs off the names.

[1:30:10] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:30:11] Babalu Mandel sounds like a, something that Dennis Miller would have said a lot in the 80s.

[1:30:17] Yeah.

[1:30:19] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:30:20] This guy makes Lowell Gans look like Babalu Mandel, baby.

Elliott Kalan

[1:30:23] Oh, that's pretty good.

[1:30:25] Someone's like, Dennis, they work together.

[1:30:26] They're not that different.

Dan McCoy

[1:30:27] Oh, uh.

[1:30:30] So, this next and final letter is from Heather, last name withheld.

[1:30:36] Uh-huh.

[1:30:37] And Heather writes, how do you all have such nice teeth?

[1:30:40] Are they natural?

[1:30:41] Thanks, Heather.

[1:30:43] I will start.

[1:30:45] I can only answer for myself.

[1:30:46] I had braces for many years as a child.

[1:30:49] Answer for me, Dan.

[1:30:50] I probably didn't wear my retainer as much as I should, so they're drifting a little back crooked as I age.

[1:30:58] But that's my story.

[1:31:00] What about you guys?

Elliott Kalan

[1:31:01] My story is very exciting and different.

[1:31:03] I also had braces, and my teeth are also drifting back.

[1:31:07] And on my bottom jaw, one of the teeth, it's drifting, but you can only feel it from the back.

[1:31:12] If you look from the front, I don't think you can tell.

[1:31:14] So, that's a little secret I have, is that my tongue is constantly caressing the place where two of my teeth overlap.

[1:31:19] Pretty erotic, huh?

[1:31:20] Uh-huh.

[1:31:23] Stuart?

Stuart Wellington

[1:31:24] Oh, I thought Josh was going to talk about my teeth, but I guess I'll fucking do it.

[1:31:28] I mean, like, we're saving it.

[1:31:29] We're saving that for our podcast, Stuart's teeth.

[1:31:33] That's where I go through my collection of antique teeth.

[1:31:38] Yeah, so I also had braces, but interestingly, I didn't have braces until I was like 18.

[1:31:45] I had to have corrective surgery because I developed an underbite late in life.

[1:31:52] Late in life as in, like, when I was 17.

Elliott Kalan

[1:31:58] You've been dead for a couple decades, right?

[1:32:02] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:32:02] That's late in life in medieval times, sure.

[1:32:04] But you had jaw surgery.

Stuart Wellington

[1:32:07] I did.

[1:32:08] So, I had corrective jaw surgery where they put me under and they, like, peeled my lips back and then they had to cut my lower jaw and push it backwards and cut my upper jaw and pull it out a little bit.

[1:32:23] And that's why when you look at me, you're like, why does he look like a perfect specimen of a human?

[1:32:28] Well, it's because it's all, it's created by science.

[1:32:30] It's not, you know.

[1:32:31] Yeah.

[1:32:32] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:32:32] Now, would you recommend this procedure, Stuart?

[1:32:35] I mean, look at the results.

[1:32:37] He's super handsome.

[1:32:37] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:32:38] I mean, I think they speak for themselves.

[1:32:39] Although, I do remember waking up from that surgery and immediately vomiting a mixture of the pizza I'd eaten the day before and blood.

[1:32:47] So, I don't recommend that part.

[1:32:49] Like a vampire ninja turtle.

S4

[1:32:51] Yeah.

[1:32:52] I'll tell you what.

[1:32:53] This listener got more than they bargained for with their question.

Elliott Kalan

[1:32:57] Stuart, you reminded me of a surgery I had forgotten about where my teeth were not coming in fast enough for my orthodontist's liking.

[1:33:06] So, they pulled two of my teeth, cut open the gums and put brackets on teeth that had not come out yet.

[1:33:11] And they slowly pulled those teeth down with little chains, like over time.

[1:33:15] Gross.

[1:33:16] Horrible.

Stuart Wellington

[1:33:16] I love the idea that this is the type of question that somebody's used to asking at parties and is like super bad.

[1:33:23] I'm bummed they had to turn into a long conversation.

Dan McCoy

[1:33:26] Jordan, go back and put a content warning in for tooth violence, please.

S4

[1:33:34] Josh, you also have great teeth.

[1:33:35] Thank you.

[1:33:36] I feel like my teeth are fine.

[1:33:37] Here's, this is my dental secret.

[1:33:40] When I was like a tween, I had a couple teeth that just didn't, I have like two fewer teeth than I should.

[1:33:46] Not to brag.

[1:33:49] Wow.

[1:33:51] I'm not going to make that shit.

[1:33:52] And so, they were like, look, there's a little extra space in your mouth.

[1:33:55] We could give you braces, but that's the whole thing.

[1:33:57] Or we could shave down your two fang-like teeth next to your front teeth so that they'll just be a little stumpy.

[1:34:06] But we won't have to like put the whole thing in to line them up.

[1:34:09] And my parents and I were like, yeah, do the weird thing that no one's ever done.

[1:34:15] And so, I'm not very self-conscious, but whenever I think about my teeth, I remember that the two teeth next to my front teeth are just short little guys.

[1:34:24] They're like little sidekick teeth.

Dan McCoy

[1:34:28] Okay.

[1:34:29] So, there you go.

[1:34:32] Some of you are horrified.

[1:34:34] Some of you are aroused.

Stuart Wellington

[1:34:35] I love that some people listen to our show as they're going to sleep, and this will certainly affect their dreams.

Elliott Kalan

[1:34:41] Let me, you know what, let me cute this up with some cute teeth talk.

[1:34:45] My older son, Sammy, he has lost both of his front two teeth, so he's got a super classic adorable kid face.

[1:34:51] But with the second tooth, we put under his pillow, and he wrote a letter to the tooth fairy asking if this tooth fairy was the same tooth fairy that took his last tooth.

[1:35:00] And the letter he got in response explained that it's the same tooth fairy because this is the tooth fairy that handles California, and there are different tooth fairies for every state and major city and country, and he was very excited about learning that.

[1:35:11] So, there's a network of tooth fairies out there all working regionally.

[1:35:15] Let's support them as best we can in these hard times.

S4

[1:35:18] The New Jersey tooth fairy, Michael Imperioli.

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:21] He'll sometimes come when the teeth aren't ready to come out yet, and he'll just stick his hand in a kid's mouth and be like, come on, legal it out, buddy.

Dan McCoy

[1:35:32] Come on, get it out of there.

[1:35:33] They're coming out sometime.

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:37] And then he takes a big roll of bills out of his pocket, not in a wallet, and just peels off two ones and throws them onto the bed and walks out.

Dan McCoy

[1:35:46] Let's do the final segment of the show, which is recommendations.

[1:35:49] If you want something maybe a little better than Primal.

[1:35:54] Is that possible?

[1:35:57] Who knows?

[1:35:58] Well, let's see.

[1:35:59] In honor of Cagemas, fortunately, I actually watched a Nicolas Cage movie that I had not seen before.

[1:36:05] I'm surprised that I hadn't seen it before.

[1:36:06] It took me a very long time.

[1:36:08] But I watched Valley Girl, which I enjoyed quite a bit.

[1:36:13] It was like, you know, like, I grew up with these 80s teen comedies.

[1:36:18] And so it was nice to find one that I hadn't seen before that I could enjoy that also had a very minimal, objectionable amount of stuff.

[1:36:32] There's nothing in it that upset me.

[1:36:34] I mean, Nick Cage gets a little stalkery at the end.

[1:36:36] But other than that, it's a very sweet movie.

Stuart Wellington

[1:36:39] That movie has my number one hamburger bite I've ever seen in a movie.

[1:36:42] Oh, yeah?

[1:36:45] It's also ranked next to my favorite snakes, if you're wondering.

[1:36:48] It's in my journal.

Elliott Kalan

[1:36:50] It's number one behind two other hamburger bites from other movies.

[1:36:54] Number three is a snake biting a hamburger.

[1:36:57] Of only a snake bit a Bushmaster biting into a hamburger.

[1:37:00] Why haven't we seen that in movies yet?

Stuart Wellington

[1:37:01] Oh, my God.

[1:37:02] That's going to be my next tattoo.

Elliott Kalan

[1:37:04] You know the Lumiere brothers were like, this is why we created this medium, to see a snake bite into a hamburger.

[1:37:11] And it just hasn't happened yet.

Dan McCoy

[1:37:13] So this movie is from 1983.

[1:37:15] A lot of people probably know about it already, so I won't go too much into it.

[1:37:18] But it was made to capitalize on the brief cultural fascination with the idea of the Valley Girl,

[1:37:24] which came out of, in some part, the Frank Zappa, Moon Unit Zappa song Valley Girl,

[1:37:31] which is really, like, sort of shitty and snide about Valley Girls in a way that the movie is not at all.

[1:37:38] It's directed by Martha Coolidge.

[1:37:40] And I think it's one of these cases where having a woman director do this movie that focuses, in large part, on this young girl,

[1:37:50] allows her to be a little more complex than otherwise would be the case.

[1:37:55] Otherwise, they could just be making fun of this.

[1:37:58] But it's a Romeo and Juliet tale.

[1:38:00] A valley girl falls for a punk from Not in the Valley, played by Nicolas Cage.

[1:38:08] And two things I want to say about it is, like, number one, I think movies get punks wrong a lot of the time.

[1:38:14] Like, I feel like in movies they're just shown as these forces of aggression.

[1:38:20] And, you know, the punks that I knew from college, I feel like a lot of them used this aggressive stance to cover up for a lot of sensitivity.

[1:38:31] This is, like, their way of kind of dealing with the world.

[1:38:34] And Nicolas Cage felt like one of these people I could have known.

[1:38:39] And I also want to say that, you know, just at the beginning of his career,

[1:38:44] sometimes you forget what a dreamboat this guy was.

[1:38:48] Like, you look at him in this movie, he's got beautiful eyes.

[1:38:52] And you can see how, like, there's no way this young woman would not fall for this guy.

[1:38:59] Like, he is, he just wants to be with her.

[1:39:03] He is so sweet.

[1:39:05] And it's just a really, like, sweet movie that you know that these kids aren't going to stay together.

[1:39:11] You know, this is a high school romance.

[1:39:12] But it's a movie that is as much about, I think, the lead becoming a better person

[1:39:19] and learning what it is to, you know, strike out and make your own path as it is about the romance.

[1:39:24] So I was touched by it.

[1:39:25] It's a lot of fun.

S4

[1:39:27] I'm going to go on the similar theme of good Nicolas Cage movies from the 80s.

[1:39:33] And this is one that maybe a lot of people have seen.

[1:39:35] It escaped my viewing.

[1:39:38] I was trying for years, but it kept escaping.

Elliott Kalan

[1:39:42] Every time you thought you'd catch it, you'd go to the snare and it would be empty with just like some drops of blood where it chewed its way out.

[1:39:49] A taunting note.

S4

[1:39:52] Mr. Gondelman, you should have caught me.

[1:39:54] I gave you all the clues and some such.

[1:39:57] But Moonstruck, which like a classic that I've missed out on.

[1:40:02] Early this year, my wife had been like, oh, let's watch Moonstruck.

[1:40:06] Like we had a night set off to watch a movie.

[1:40:08] She was like, how about Moonstruck?

[1:40:09] And I said, sure.

[1:40:10] I didn't know anything about it.

[1:40:12] The only thing I knew is it's either the one where Nicolas Cage eats the bug or it's not.

[1:40:16] And folks, it's not.

[1:40:20] Cher and Nicolas Cage play people living in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn in the 80s.

[1:40:27] Very Italian neighborhood.

[1:40:29] Cher gets engaged.

[1:40:32] Her fiance leaves to go see his grandmother, I think, in Italy.

[1:40:36] And he tasks her with inviting his estranged brother, Nicolas Cage, to their wedding.

[1:40:41] And when she does, he's unreasonable and sexually magnetic.

[1:40:49] And it's like you said, I felt like I did some bagging on Nicolas Cage for being, you know, older, slightly older than middle aged and like a little disheveled and primal.

[1:40:59] But this is Nicolas Cage where you're like, oh, this guy gets after it.

[1:41:04] He really brings it in the sack.

[1:41:07] And that's like kind of the central theme of the movie is Nicolas Cage is so good at sex, he'll change your life, the whole course of your life.

Stuart Wellington

[1:41:18] Yeah, you're like, that's what a white tank top is supposed to look like on a person.

[1:41:23] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:41:26] Yeah, that movie is so much fun.

[1:41:27] I saw it for the first time as well during quarantine and which is still going on, obviously.

[1:41:32] And it had been one of my wife's favorite movies.

[1:41:36] So we got to watch it together.

[1:41:38] And it was like the moment when it clicked that it's basically like a Shakespearean comedy, but set in Brooklyn.

[1:41:47] That's when I was like, oh, I get this movie and I like it a lot.

[1:41:51] Yeah.

S4

[1:41:52] And the scene that introduces him is like, I think about it all the time now.

[1:41:57] Yeah.

[1:41:57] The scene where she comes to his bakery or the bakery where he works to invite him to the wedding.

[1:42:03] And he's just like, it's big Cage, but it also is big Cage in a way that like is within the scope of like what he's supposed to do in this movie.

[1:42:13] Yeah.

[1:42:14] It's great.

Dan McCoy

[1:42:14] I also want to just give a little behind the scenes.

[1:42:18] You know, we're using Skype for this call.

[1:42:22] God knows why, because many better things exist now.

[1:42:26] But with the Skype reactions.

Elliott Kalan

[1:42:27] Dan, Dan, it's inertia.

Dan McCoy

[1:42:30] Yeah.

[1:42:30] With the Skype reactions.

[1:42:32] When I said Valley Girl and when Josh said Moonstruck, both times Stuart did the heart reaction.

Stuart Wellington

[1:42:39] I was like, oh, quick, I got to show him how much I love it.

[1:42:42] Yeah.

[1:42:43] Without interrupting.

[1:42:44] So I'm going to break the chain and I am going to recommend a new movie that does not feature Nicolas Cage.

[1:42:53] I'm going to recommend a movie called Sound of Metal.

[1:42:57] It's on Amazon Prime right now.

[1:42:58] It's about a young punk rock drummer played by Riz Ahmed who starts to lose his hearing.

[1:43:07] And he has to figure out a way to kind of live a life as a deaf person.

[1:43:14] And this is a character that as we get to know him, we realize that that being a drummer and that sort of thing had also been kind of a way for him to run away from other past issues.

[1:43:27] And it's a fairly straightforward drama.

[1:43:30] But it's shot beautifully.

[1:43:31] And it has a couple of very amazing performances, including from Riz Ahmed, who just looks, oh, man, like a whole dang meal, this guy.

[1:43:42] And also, I want to mention that my buddy Harry did some of the drum work for it.

[1:43:48] So I get to continue the recent trend of Stuart name dropping people involved in movies that he likes.

[1:43:55] He did it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:43:57] Good job.

[1:44:00] Name dropped.

[1:44:01] Sound of name.

[1:44:03] As the sound of the name dropping.

[1:44:04] I'm going to mention.

[1:44:05] I'm also not going to recommend a Nicolas Cage movie.

[1:44:07] But because it's Cagemas, I'm recommending a movie that partly takes place at Christmas.

[1:44:13] So that's a connection, I guess.

[1:44:15] This is I'm going to recommend the movie The Silent Partner from 1978 starring Elliot Gould, Christopher Plummer, and Susanna York, which is a – I don't want to talk too much about the plot because it's twisty and turny.

[1:44:26] But essentially, Elliot Gould is a mild-mannered bank teller who decides he's going to take advantage of the fact that he suspects that a man played by Christopher Plummer is planning to rob the bank to actually kind of pre-rob the bank and gets involved in vengeance and twisty turns and things like that.

[1:44:47] And it's really good.

[1:44:49] It is – even though it is listed as a comedy in some places, it is not a comedy.

[1:44:53] It is a very – like it's a thriller that is both super smart and very well made and also kind of sleazy in an enjoyable way.

[1:45:03] There's like – it's a pretty respectable sleazy thriller that has two scenes that are gruesome.

[1:45:10] There's two violent scenes that – where women are the targets that I'll warn you about, one of which enters into like giallo territory for a moment.

[1:45:19] But Christopher Plummer is super scary in it and Elliot Gould is very good in it as a kind of not bumbling guy but a believably like guy who got himself in too deep.

[1:45:30] And you get to see beautiful Canada in the late 70s and all the house interiors and clothing implied by that.

[1:45:40] And features a performance by an actress named Celine Lomis who I was not super familiar with and she's great in it.

[1:45:49] And she plays a character who is – has more going on with her than it seems at first.

[1:45:54] But The Silent Partner, if you're interested in a taut thriller that is just that – a great slice of 70s movies, you could do worse than that.

[1:46:05] I'd recommend it.

Dan McCoy

[1:46:06] Yeah, I appreciate – like that is like a mean movie in a lot of ways.

[1:46:11] Which is what I – I mean if it's a comedy, it's a comedy in the sense – like a very, very dry sense in the way that people who love thrillers I think will sort of chuckle at how like brutal it is.

[1:46:22] At mean things that happen to people, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:46:24] But I would not – but it is a – it's a thriller.

[1:46:26] And like I watched it being like, oh, I've heard of this movie before but I don't really know much about it.

[1:46:30] And it's listed as like a comedy thriller.

[1:46:31] And like almost instantly I'm like this is not a funny – like this is great but this is not a funny movie.

[1:46:36] Even though John Candy is in it in a small role not being funny.

[1:46:40] It's a –

[1:46:41] Impossible.

[1:46:42] Yeah.

[1:46:42] I mean –

[1:46:43] He's got Candy in his name for God's sakes.

[1:46:46] He does have Candy in his name.

[1:46:48] He is delicious in this movie.

[1:46:50] And Christopher Plummer manages to be like just every time he's on screen genuinely like, you know, frightening and eerie in a way that I did not expect.

Stuart Wellington

[1:46:58] Do you think when they made the Super Mario Brothers movie Christopher Plummer was mad that he didn't get hired to play Mario because he's like, I'm a plumber.

[1:47:07] It's in my name.

Elliott Kalan

[1:47:08] You know he sent his tape in and was like, I should have worn a mustache when I did the audition.

[1:47:13] That was my problem.

[1:47:14] I didn't wear a mustache on my tape.

Dan McCoy

[1:47:16] You know, Elliot, you were just like sort of gesturing at a Christopher Plummer voice but I could at the same time hear it.

[1:47:23] I really –

[1:47:24] Oh, thanks.

[1:47:24] You captured something there.

Elliott Kalan

[1:47:26] I appreciate that.

[1:47:26] There's one moment in this movie.

[1:47:28] I'll just tell you how it got at me particularly where Christopher Plummer knows where Elliot Gould lives and he is – he's always calling him from a payphone outside that he can see him from.

[1:47:38] And Christopher Plummer comes up into the hallway and starts talking to him through the mail slot.

[1:47:42] And it is – was so frightening to me the idea that it's like, oh, there's just a door between these two guys and they're looking at each other through this mail slot.

[1:47:49] And it's like – it's like tapped into the mail slot.

[1:47:50] And it's like – it's like tapped into the same thing that is like when you have a dream where you're going to the bathroom but someone can see you going to the bathroom.

[1:47:59] Like that kind of fear of exposure.

[1:48:00] The ultimate fantasy, yeah.

[1:48:03] I mean not for me but – so anyway.

[1:48:06] But it's just – there are little things like that that are like super creepy and then the movie gets – yeah, very brutal.

[1:48:12] So that's my recommendation.

Dan McCoy

[1:48:15] Cool.

[1:48:15] Well, guys, Josh, it's been like such a pleasure to have you on.

[1:48:20] Is there a thing or multiple things you would like to plug?

S4

[1:48:24] Oh, thank you.

[1:48:25] Sure.

[1:48:25] And this has been such a pleasure for me.

[1:48:27] I'm such a fan of the show and I really enjoyed hanging out and talking about Nick Cage.

[1:48:32] I have a podcast called Make My Day.

[1:48:34] It's a comedy game show where there's only one contestant or two contestants playing as a team.

[1:48:39] So the contestants always win.

[1:48:41] That's great.

[1:48:42] I have a book called Nice Try that's an essay collection that I'm very proud of and still exists.

[1:48:48] And Desus and Mero comes back on January 31st for season three and I'm very excited and I think it's a fun show that people might like if they haven't tried it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:48:57] Yeah, it was a big part of my quarantine was watching their current episodes and then catching up with some of the old ones.

S4

[1:49:04] They're so funny.

[1:49:06] And I say that like I'm very proud of the show and like the work that we do on it, obviously.

[1:49:12] The whole team does.

[1:49:13] But also it's just like watching the tapings because they're so spontaneous.

[1:49:16] I laugh a lot.

[1:49:17] Just like, well, I wouldn't have come up with that.

[1:49:20] Which is like a very funny way to feel about a show that you write for.

Elliott Kalan

[1:49:24] I was doing a show that never ended up going into production for True TV.

[1:49:31] And they were like, we really want the host to have like a real Desus and Mero vibe.

[1:49:35] You want it to be like Desus and Mero.

[1:49:36] And I'm like, you're not going to.

[1:49:38] Like it's not going to happen.

[1:49:39] Like those two guys have that.

[1:49:40] Yeah.

[1:49:40] That's it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:49:41] Yeah.

[1:49:41] We want you to give us the dictionary definition of charisma, basically.

[1:49:47] Yeah.

S4

[1:49:48] You mean two guys who seem like who have like incredible synergy, incredible charisma, incredible chemistry.

[1:49:54] And their list of references includes everything that's ever happened.

Dan McCoy

[1:50:02] Okay, guys.

[1:50:03] Well, yes, again, thank you, Josh, for being here.

[1:50:07] Thank you to Jordan Cowling for making us sound good by doing editing and sound stuff and all sorts of things I don't understand.

[1:50:17] If you listen to the podcast when I did it, you can hear the improvement.

[1:50:22] Thank you to our network, Maximum Fun.

[1:50:25] Please rate us on iTunes.

[1:50:28] Well, I hope.

[1:50:30] Let people know about the show.

[1:50:32] Check out the other great podcasts at MaximumFun.org.

[1:50:36] And I think that's it.

[1:50:38] Thank you so much.

[1:50:39] Another cage miss in the books.

[1:50:42] I've been Dan McCoy.

Elliott Kalan

[1:50:43] I've been Stuart Wellington.

[1:50:45] I'm still Elliot Kalin.

[1:50:47] Oh, I've been Josh Condelman.

[1:50:50] I didn't want to intrude.

[1:50:52] This is something we continually forget to tell our guests that they should say their names to at the end.

[1:50:56] This happens a lot.

[1:50:58] I like it this way.

Dan McCoy

[1:50:59] I was just thinking, like, oh, did we figure it out?

[1:51:02] Like, that seemed like a pretty smooth ending.

[1:51:04] Did we figure it out?

[1:51:05] And then it turns out we didn't.

[1:51:06] We nailed it.

[1:51:07] This is my fault, not yours.

Elliott Kalan

[1:51:09] We were walking out of the house, and we said, didn't trip over our own dicks this time.

[1:51:13] And then suddenly, what was in our path?

[1:51:15] Our own dicks.

S4

[1:51:16] And I tripped over them.

[1:51:20] See you next time.

[1:51:21] Bye.

Stuart Wellington

[1:51:32] I'm not an accent guy.

[1:51:34] I think we've covered that in the show.

[1:51:36] I'm more of a, you know, like a hype man type character.

[1:51:40] Yep.

[1:51:41] For Castle Freight.

[1:51:42] Yep.

[1:51:46] Maximum Fun.

Dan McCoy

[1:51:51] Dot org.

[1:51:52] Comedy and culture.

S4

[1:51:53] Artist owned.

[1:51:54] Audience supported.

Ep. #332 - Primal

Chapters

Transcript

In this episode

Description