Ep. #334 - The New Mutants, with Arnie Niekamp

[0:00] Hi, everybody. My name's Elliot Kaelin, the Flophouse Podcast on the MaxFun Network.

[0:03] I just want to let you know that we had kind of a bad internet connection at the very beginning of the recording of this episode.

[0:09] And it will improve, so please bear with it.

[0:12] Thanks to the magic of futuristic 21st century technology and the amazing skills of our editor, Jordan Cowling, it will improve.

[0:20] So please bear with us, and you'll know when you get to the point where it's fixed because it sounds better.

[0:26] Thank you very much. Enjoy the show.

[0:28] on this episode we discuss the new mutants they still got that new mutant smell love it

[0:58] hey everyone welcome to the flop house i'm dan mccoy hey i'm stewart wellington i'm elliot

[1:09] kalin and joining us we have a special guest this time game director designer for jackbox games and

[1:17] host of the hit podcast hello from the magic tavern it's arnie knee camp and i can't be

[1:24] camp hey it's arnie knee camp that's all right everyone gets it wrong it's one of those names

[1:29] where you either get it wrong or you don't have any certainty that you got it right i covered my

[1:34] bases we've got arnie minecraft with us very excited about it it's a common word uh stew it's

[1:41] where you know it's where uh parents send their knees during the summer yeah now let's cut that

[1:47] off at the knees that little bit i'm sure it was going to develop into something great i just want

[1:50] Remind listeners, before we go on, that we do have a live show coming up Saturday, February 6th at 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific.

[1:57] We're going to be talking about the movie Teen Wolf, one of the most requested movies for us to talk about.

[2:02] Again, that's Saturday, February 6th, 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific.

[2:05] And for tickets, just go to www.theflophouse.simpletix.com.

[2:09] I'll be telling you more about the show later in this show.

[2:12] Let's get back to this hilarious knee camp bit.

[2:14] So, Dan, what kind of activities do they have for knees at knee camp?

[2:17] I wanted to keep it short because it's perilously close to just making fun of someone's name, which I don't want it to.

[2:23] But I will say—

[2:25] Wait, when did you start not wanting to do that?

[2:27] I don't—I mean, I do a lot of name puns.

[2:33] I wouldn't call them, like, making fun of, but I feel like if we went further down this road, it might turn into that.

[2:39] Perhaps you don't remember the old etiquette rule, saying a pun is still making fun.

[2:46] as a kid definitely people always said knee camp do you can't be and i'm realizing as an adult i

[2:52] think the reason people often think my name is nycamp is they're like well i can't well i can't

[2:57] be knee camp right that would be absurd yeah what what kind of a name would that be as if as if

[3:05] nycamp is any less of a like there's that there's some kind of abstract value to to nycamp that is

[3:12] greater than knee camp like names can't sound like words well no impossible what yes and i mean like

[3:19] it's do you think it's that people would think like no adult would ruin their child's life by

[3:26] naming them our knee knee camp oh wow that's very that's the thing and somehow i didn't even like i

[3:34] think i didn't discover how dumb that was for a lot of my life because i as a child i was focused

[3:40] on how close to ernie it was really latched on to that they always call me ernie and then there

[3:47] was a long period of my life where everyone would assume it was every version close to arnie like

[3:52] there are a lot of not common but just subtly more common names than arnie and ernie and uh yeah

[4:00] so then yeah so then i realized yeah arnie knee camp is horrible to say no why don't you just run

[4:07] them together and be arnie camp just be like a one word like a madonna or a share or a prometheus

[4:13] you know just a one word name you know they're icons icons i want to stop talking about your

[4:22] name and actually start talking about your work how does i mean prometheus only had like the one

[4:26] hit though i don't think it's fair to put him in the same fire is a big hit stew and he could have

[4:31] and it's not fair to judge him by against the records of of recording artists who are not

[4:36] chained to a rock so that a vulture can rip their liver out every day that's true that's it's gonna

[4:40] impede your work but yeah let's talk about your work arnie i just wanted to ask arnie how does

[4:45] it feel to know um the the light and joy and uh and saving that has come into people's lives

[4:53] through jackbox games during this pandemic because i know that i certainly have played more of them

[4:59] uh during this time and tan's a huge gamer now i am i've become a gamer except for the ones you like

[5:06] dan said he heard about this gamer gate and he wanted to go through it so that's really

[5:12] attracted him but uh somehow stumbled on one of the things i would least ever want to talk about

[5:17] oh then let's get let's actually talk about your work then yeah is it does it feel good to be like

[5:21] yeah now people have to play my games and they love them uh yeah it does i've been working at

[5:28] jackbox for like 15 years now and there were definitely watches where it not a given that

[5:36] it would stay you know like uh and we've sort of made seven i guess party packs now 30 some games

[5:45] and it's kind of incredible it's sort of slowly started more and more people kind of aware of it

[5:52] over the last couple of years and then yeah it kind of exploded uh during a pandemic now with

[5:59] that much time at jackbox do you think it's safe to say that you do know jack

[6:04] and now watching stewart cross that off from his pre-written jokes list oh so yeah you're saying

[6:14] you're saying jack is kind of unknowable muscles stewart's cat just came and started like ramming

[6:21] his face into Stuart as if to say

[6:23] like, is something wrong?

[6:25] Like that laughter.

[6:26] That was the closest I've seen to a cat trying to take

[6:29] the keys away from somebody.

[6:30] So

[6:33] you're saying you don't know Jack.

[6:34] I used to.

[6:40] There were periods where I really felt

[6:43] like Jack, but I'm always

[6:45] constantly reminded that it's a

[6:47] lifelong journey to know Jack.

[6:50] He's one of those one-word icons.

[6:51] Cher, Prometheus, Arnie Camp, and Jack.

[6:54] Just heroes.

[6:57] That's enough nonsense.

[6:58] So, Arnie, thanks so much for coming on the show.

[7:02] We've been wanting to have you on for a while.

[7:04] We love Hello from the Magic Tavern.

[7:08] I think Elliot and I have both been lucky enough to be guests on that program.

[7:12] And so it's great to have you on here.

[7:15] Now, why did you say, I want to be on this show?

[7:18] new mutants that's the key to my enjoyment of the flop house uh i you know i will say first of all

[7:27] i didn't just pull new mutants out of like the whole world of movie going on uh-huh sure okay

[7:34] it was definitely my my favorite of the ones presented to me and also i legitimately was

[7:39] looking for an excuse to watch this movie because yeah yeah first and i was kind of all on board

[7:47] with the idea of it i wasn't like an intense like a comic book reader but i definitely went

[7:54] through a new mutants phase and the whole idea of a new mutants comic movie like in combined with

[8:03] horror seemed like to me and then yeah a lot of things happened and then eventually it came out

[8:09] and i was less excited about seeing it eventually it came out i feel like is a uh truncated version

[8:16] of the troubled production history of this movie yeah it seems like the movie had like the kind of

[8:21] production history and a normal movie have has just yeah drawn out over a much longer period of

[8:27] time um and it's interesting when you watch the movie that um uh you watch it and you're like oh

[8:34] this is not just jump ahead this is the movie that they had to keep going back and remaking yeah

[8:39] i didn't want to skip ahead to like final judgments but that was what i kept asking

[8:43] myself too because i'm like there are movies like not that this is particularly great we'll get we'll

[8:49] get to it but like there are movies far worse than this that they just toss on screen without thought

[8:55] and like like with like advertising budgets and everything and i was like what was it about this

[9:00] one that they were just like we gotta keep working on it there my guess is that so there is i was

[9:06] reading up a little bit about this and so this was i think very much seen as like then this is

[9:11] going to be the way that fox holds on to or 20th century holds on to the x-men license that the

[9:16] last few x-men movies were kind of running out of steam time for some new mutants if you will

[9:22] and the people who made it wanted it to be a horror movie and the studio did not and then

[9:26] the last x-man movie but x and it was supposed to tie more directly into x-men apocalypse

[9:31] then x-men apocalypse did not do well so they're like take all the x-men apocalypse stuff out

[9:34] and then they're like but we don't want to be a horror movie and then the trailer for it came out

[9:39] apparently and the trailer was such a big hit that they were like make it a horror movie again

[9:42] so it was really like that the studio was really chasing what they thought would be uh that the

[9:47] hottest version of this movie and not not letting the filmmakers just get to a regular tale of new

[9:53] mutants run around a hospital being chased by silent hill monsters hot off of this of the it

[9:58] trailer they were like make it a trailer could you like i kept reading it i don't know 92 minutes

[10:07] out of this i kept reading how the director would like send the trailer to people and they'd be like

[10:11] you got it you nailed it and be like how can you tell from the trailer like that bill sinkovich was

[10:15] like you did it based off the trailer and it's i don't know yeah but i say this having uh i was on

[10:20] twitter earlier today and saw the teaser for the king kong versus godzilla trailer and it was like

[10:26] man how much how much pre-selling is the trailer gonna have to have and then i watched the trailer

[10:32] and i was like oh yeah this is what i thought king kong versus godzilla would look like it's

[10:36] fighting godzilla directed by adam wingard it's crazy not is he related to jason wingard aka

[10:43] mastermind of the hellfire club and the brotherhood of evil mutants an x-men character i don't know

[10:48] dan what were you gonna say a segue as good as that i don't think so but say it uh well no i i

[10:52] guess that is kind of a good segue because i was gonna ask two questions number one what is you

[10:57] guys mutant what's sex no uh number one uh what is you guys's history with the new mutants if any

[11:06] and do you how do you think this would play to someone who has no association with the comic

[11:16] or the extended like mutantiverse uh like i i i i will quickly say i know that i read the stories

[11:24] that this was based on like i because i i read the claremont uh sinkavich uh period of new mutants

[11:32] and i i really liked those like spinoffs uh that and excalibur i think at the time i enjoyed almost

[11:38] more than x-men but um but i'd forgotten all of it and i guess this stands alone but i do think

[11:45] it would confuse people like why all this was happening but anyway you guys uh go ellie you

[11:51] look like you have something to say well i so the thing is my experience with the new mutants has in

[11:55] the comics has been a conflicted one because when i was growing up the new mutants was over pretty

[12:00] much and they had already transformed into the much cooler x-force led by cable and instead of

[12:05] like instead of like wolf's bane the goody two shoes you had feral and cannonball was still in

[12:11] there but you know like shatter star was in there with his double sword blades and his double

[12:15] ponytails you got two of everything with shatter star even the words shatter and star kind of sound

[12:19] aren't double ponytails pigtails is that no because they both came out of the back in the

[12:24] same place i don't know dude anyway but uh so so it's so the new moon has always seemed to me kind

[12:29] of like a when i was like growing up was like oh these are the dull characters that turned into the

[12:35] crazy like uh teen hormone explosion that is x-force but uh the pouch delivery system yeah

[12:43] because when there's nothing teens wanted more than guys covered in pouches and they never open

[12:48] those pouches little tiny lines that don't seem to indicate anything are they wrinkles i don't know

[12:53] when i was 13 i love that stuff give me more little lines and looking back those issues now

[12:57] it is hilarious just how ridiculous the art like it's unlookable but uh the i've gone back and

[13:03] reread some of the new mutants ones from that run and they're good books but they just kind of like

[13:07] don't uh i don't know what it is they don't grab me the way that like claremont's uncanny x-men run

[13:12] or his Excalibur run or I mean Excalibur it's Alan Davis is the secret weapon on that title but

[13:18] the so watching this movie I was like oh yeah these characters like Danny Moonstar is a character

[13:23] I've never felt much connection to Dan obviously you do this is the same and this movie will not

[13:27] change that no we were like and watching it like oh they made the least engaging one of these people

[13:32] the uh the central character but uh the weird thing is watching it it did feel like oh if I

[13:38] didn't know the x-men movies i'd be really lost in this but it also yeah i've had no i wouldn't

[13:43] have a connection to it but i do know the x-men movies so when dr cecilia reyes shows up i'm like

[13:47] wait a minute that's not the way that character is portrayed in the comic books uh stew uh what

[13:52] are you what are your feelings yeah i mean i i worked my way backwards through the new mutants

[13:56] starting with x-force uh and i remember really liking some of the stuff when they would uh you

[14:03] know the crossovers with the x-men the annuals where they would go to asgard when danny moonstar

[14:08] becomes one of the valkyries i thought that stuff was all great and also it had art by art adams

[14:12] which is great um and i always had a huge crush uh growing up i had a huge crush on magic uh because

[14:19] she's awesome and like a weird brat uh sword slinging dimension hopping monster uh and i don't

[14:28] know i don't know if that character was totally translated to the uh to the movies but whatever

[14:31] no i mean that's one of the reasons i liked new mutants too because i read i remember reading the

[14:36] magic limited series uh which kind of cat catapulted me into that hello hi this is elliot

[14:41] kalin interrupting the show i know what else is new anyway i'm talking to you from the future

[14:46] compared to what you were just listening to but the past compared to where you are right now

[14:50] listening you might have noticed that uh the connection uh earlier between us and our guest

[14:55] was kind of bad earlier in the episode thankfully from this point on we were able to correct it

[14:59] using the power of technology and also our editor jordan cowling and so we now return to the slightly

[15:06] better sounding end half rest of the episode of new mutants you've already been listening to thank

[15:13] you i was very drawn to the new mutants i think from the covers as a i was kind of just young

[15:19] enough that i was really into like warlock the robot who i guess is which i'm sad was yeah you're

[15:27] right he is an alien robot like genetic robot i don't know it's too hard he's a techno-organic

[15:32] being and what makes him a mutant is that on his world they are naturally aggressive and hostile

[15:37] but he is friendly and so he's like uh he's like a programming mutant that's how they spit that's

[15:42] how they got him in the group yeah you can explain it that way i prefer to like stammer on for about

[15:47] a minute trying to figure out how to explain what warlock you know to each their own i apologize

[15:51] let's do it your way he was definitely one of my favorites in the new mutants and i'm sad that he

[15:55] was not in this i guess they kind of nod to it with uh illyria's arm a little bit no that's i

[16:02] mean that's her armor that she has in the comics too but they originally at one point wanted warlock

[16:07] in this but it was going to be too expensive so the plan was to introduce him in the sequel

[16:10] where the new mutants go to brazil that sequel was not made and then apparently the the third

[16:17] was going to be the inferno comic book uh story which would have been cool as well it would have

[16:23] been really interesting to see how they do inferno with nut they cannot have a lot of the characters

[16:27] that are central to inferno because they're x-men characters you know unless they bring them back i

[16:32] don't know maybe they'll have the maybe they'll have the hobgoblin become an actual monster like

[16:37] he did in the inferno stories that was great i mean again that's a different company has has

[16:42] the spider-man movies but you know i mean they're all one they're all disney now let's do it let's

[16:46] see it happen but he's a spider-man villain does that mean that sony has the rights to him it is

[16:51] exactly and so the mcu only gets to use spider man that's why venom has his own his own spin-off

[16:56] series so i guess hobgoblin would turn into a demon uh in inferno in the venom movies which

[17:02] would be a strange distortion of the original actual history that happened uh-huh but uh i'm

[17:08] still up for it so uh our movie opens with danny moon star giving us a little bit of a monologue

[17:15] about how every human being has two bears living inside of them.

[17:19] Now, guys, is that true?

[17:20] I know that good things come in bears.

[17:23] Dan, you have to stop sticking your hand down bears' mouths and into their butts

[17:30] because you haven't found a good thing yet, and you're not going to find anything.

[17:34] At best, you're going to find a half-digested salmon,

[17:37] and I don't think that's what you want.

[17:38] Dan, it's talking like that that got you fired from the Care Bear store.

[17:43] He just has a penknife, and he's just digging open all the bears to find the good things, the jewels inside.

[17:48] Because this monologue, it bothered me, too, because I know sometimes my tummy growls.

[17:52] And I was like, is that because there's a bear in there?

[17:55] Yeah.

[17:55] I mean, I know that I've put on a little weight recently, but I don't think there's enough space in me for two bears.

[18:00] What would it be like to work with someone in an office who really bought into this two-bear theory and explained everything they did?

[18:06] It's like, oh, sorry, guys.

[18:07] Today, it's a bad bear day for me.

[18:09] I'm going to be trying to be more of a good bear tomorrow.

[18:13] the bears are not happy right now uh i mean all people have have duality you know there's a good

[18:19] side and a bad side and a bear side well the way you when you put it that way ellie it's like why

[18:25] do we have to bring bears into it he's like oh there's a duality uh people have a good side

[18:31] bad side great there's also bears inside you well now i'm confused and in that in that office break

[18:37] room you're not allowed to have one of those little honey containers that looks like a bear

[18:40] because that co-worker gets upset yeah that would be they would be it's problematic for them now

[18:44] here's the problem is that every now and then someone is born with three bears inside them

[18:47] and that makes them vulnerable to having little blonde girls just climb in their mouths and sit

[18:51] on their chairs that are in there eat all the porridge sleep in the beds you don't want that

[18:55] so danny gives this little monologue about how everybody's got a good got a good bear and a bad

[19:01] bear well young danny gets woken up by her dad uh something large and uh unseen is attacking the

[19:08] trailer that they live in uh she runs off into the woods uh this thing kills her dad she is left

[19:15] knocked out in the snow only to wake up in a mental hospital chained to a gurney can can i

[19:23] just for a second go back the part where her father uh is killed was pretty comically bad

[19:31] i thought like he just walks off screen and then immediately like hops back onto screen dead

[19:38] yeah well it has all the timing of that scene in uh in what planet terror where the kid gets

[19:45] left alone with a gun and immediately instantly shoots himself uh now i was the father's death

[19:52] before or was that when it happened that there was just basically total blackness on screen with

[20:00] a bunch of sound effects probably around there i mean i feel like that whole opening was it was

[20:05] shot in a way to make it look like it's like in the middle of a snowstorm and it's intentionally

[20:11] obscuring what could be behind them uh but it's yeah i mean it's it it doesn't look good it looks

[20:18] bad it looks very cheap there's also there there it's a little bit i think of them trying to be a

[20:23] little cheap and also they want to save what that bear looks like for the big climax so they're

[20:26] doing a little bit a little bit of godzilla king of the monsters in here where they're like let's

[20:31] take let's have this monster be obscured by snow and darkness but it doesn't help with the poignancy

[20:35] of the of the dad's death but again stewart as you're saying we don't have long to focus on that

[20:39] because she wakes up handcuffed to a gurney oh did the bear do that she did not do that right

[20:45] the good bear probably came in and got her to the local hospital yeah so she's she's introduced to

[20:52] dr reyes uh who is you know seems to be a psychiatrist or something at this mental hospital

[21:00] uh who tries to comfort and gaslight her at the same time telling her that it was a tornado that

[21:07] killed her family and her whole town and then uh dr reyes welcomes her welcomes her to a place for

[21:14] new mutants title uh though we don't know what her mutant power is so i just want to say a word

[21:22] about this institution since we just arrived there um this kind of like it's like you know uh uh like

[21:28] a halfway house for it like they're trying to like no no it's a whole house like it's for like

[21:34] troubled teenage mutants and the it it will surprise no one who has seen a movie before

[21:42] that ultimately there's more to this institution than meets the eye but it seems like it takes

[21:49] the kids a very long time to like really have that sink in considering that it appears that

[21:55] dr reyes is the only doctor yes is the only staff member at all there's no maintenance staff no

[22:00] janitorial there's nobody who works the front desk it like it it from moment one feels like

[22:06] a woman is squatting in an abandoned hospital and has kidnapped several children which is not

[22:11] that different from you know what it's but it's i was like the whole movie i was like

[22:15] they're they not gonna have anyone else work at this place like exactly like the fact that one

[22:20] of the new mutants is seen cooking and doing the dishes for the others and it's like this is this

[22:25] is weird that he also i guess works there even in glass where the fake institution was understaffed

[22:32] and incompetently staffed they at least had like five people there yeah but no this is just the

[22:37] one person uh yeah and the whole place the whole place feels run down there's no like there's no

[22:44] fence there's no fence around it there's like a gate but the gate is open there's an abandoned

[22:49] clock tower for some reason and church and church yeah it's a whole abandoned church this there's

[22:54] an entire abandoned church and i could never be quite sure the kids seem to have the run of the

[22:58] place except for the times of day when the movie needs them to not have the run of the place and

[23:02] they need to escape to have the run of the place otherwise they seem to just be able to go wherever

[23:05] uh it's got a real it's got a real resident evil silent hill feeling of like here's your limited

[23:11] area that you have freedom of movement in and you're going to be walking through a lot of empty

[23:14] rooms uh but anyway i'm getting ahead it's got a real dreamlike quality that i kept trying to

[23:20] figure out if it was a choice but i think wasn't yeah and it yeah it feels unstuck in time as well

[23:27] i mean part of it is that uh it's this is a movie that will based on the slang the kids use and the

[23:34] musical choices feels like it's set in the 80s i'm guessing but yes uh and there's nothing to

[23:40] indicate other than a few odd mentions of mutants and the x-men there's nothing kind of tying it to

[23:46] a greater world that we understand like it could just exist in some kind of like sart uh style like

[23:52] uh you know existentialist prison they do watch the vampire slayer at one point so i guess it's

[23:58] at least in the 90s so this movie apparently was supposed again it was supposed to be a follow-up

[24:03] to x-men apocalypse so it's supposed to take place in the 80s and when x-men apocalypse didn't do

[24:07] well they were like forget the 80s stuff and i think they just didn't it's not like they they

[24:11] didn't go out of their way being like hey do you hear billy eilish's song i love it like just to

[24:16] get modern references in there so i think they i think they were going i think it was probably

[24:20] originally written as a as an 80s set thing and they just didn't feel the need to like

[24:24] put them all on instagram you know but if it was i mean buffy would be later than that but that i

[24:30] assume came from the no no i think i think that was i mean i wouldn't be surprised if you guys

[24:33] saw mank uh we're in a studio meeting they're talking about movies that haven't been made yet

[24:38] disparagingly uh the scene takes place in what 1930 31 and they're talking about the wolfman

[24:43] that wasn't made yet excuse me take that mank i i kind of i kind of want to arrest whoever let

[24:50] elliot watch mank because it's been making its way into our conversations too often i was about

[24:55] to suggest a new segment on our show which is every episode elliot brings up one more small

[25:01] grievance about mank i've got there's it's the problem i have with mank is that is seem if if

[25:06] the movie is not made for people like me who is it made for and yet it is not made for people like

[25:11] it's it seems to be here's a movie for people who are really interested in behind the scenes

[25:15] of Susan Cain but if you know about the behind the scenes of Susan Cain you will not be you will not

[25:18] like what you see like oh man anyway so that's my recommendation is the new Mankits uh that's my

[25:24] version of Mank where I've re-edited and re-cut it uh it's me playing the Gary Oldman part since I'm

[25:28] closer to Mank's actual age than Gary Oldman is uh so yeah the whole place feels run down and

[25:35] abandoned but there are a few uh a few like high-tech security systems there's cameras

[25:40] sorry what if this movie is called the new muppets and it was all the muppets that got

[25:45] kicked off like uh the host of uh that that muppets live show whatever the weird humanoid

[25:50] robot and uh like bean bunny like all the muppets that were never that popular and they're stuck

[25:54] that like caribbean muppet that was from muppets tonight that's what i'm thinking about the one

[25:59] who's the host of muppets tonight and then they just kind of like this isn't working out let's

[26:02] and what if it was that?

[26:04] Would that be better?

[26:05] Are you asking me?

[26:07] Yeah.

[26:07] Oh, okay.

[26:09] Let's see.

[26:11] I don't care.

[26:13] Okay, fair, fair.

[26:16] What would the second and third movie

[26:18] in the Muppets trilogy be about?

[26:20] That's what I would point.

[26:21] Well, the new Muppets,

[26:22] I mean, they could go to Brazil.

[26:23] There's no reason for them not to.

[26:25] I'd like to point out, Stuart,

[26:27] that if it suddenly becomes allowed

[26:30] to not care about dumb bullshit,

[26:32] Then our entire podcast unravels.

[26:34] Yes, the house of cards was just going to crumble, fall to the ground.

[26:37] And by crumble, I don't just mean the cards are going to fall.

[26:40] The cards will crumble to dust.

[26:41] Yeah.

[26:42] So we meet the other inmates slash patients that kind of form like a weird little support group.

[26:53] For the most part, these kids just kind of hang around and occasionally sit around in chairs and share their stories and listen to Dr. Reyes.

[27:01] We have Rain, played by, oh man, I didn't write that part down.

[27:06] From Game of Thrones.

[27:06] She's from Game of Thrones.

[27:08] We have Rain, who's like a wolf girl.

[27:10] She's sympathetic.

[27:11] She's got a Scottish accent.

[27:13] We have Ilyana.

[27:15] That's Maisie Williams.

[27:16] Maisie Williams as Rain.

[27:17] Thank you.

[27:17] We have Ilyana Rasputin, who is the Lord of Limbo.

[27:23] She's bitchy.

[27:24] She's Russian.

[27:25] Well, I think.

[27:28] I literally could not figure out what her, I didn't hear her name.

[27:31] I didn't figure out what character she was supposed to be until much later.

[27:35] Because I could not unravel the accent.

[27:38] Oh.

[27:39] Yeah.

[27:39] I think they made a mistake with that.

[27:41] Anya Taylor-Joy, I think, is just transfixing.

[27:45] Like, a great actor.

[27:47] I've loved her in basically everything.

[27:50] Here, I'm like, I don't blame her.

[27:53] I blame the director who heard that Russian accent.

[27:56] It's like, yeah, go with that.

[27:58] Like, this is such a, it doesn't sound like anything at all.

[28:03] And there are a lot of, part of the reason why I blame the director is there are multiple weird accents.

[28:08] Like, the kid from Stranger Things has the broadest, like, Appalachian accent.

[28:14] Which is like, I mean, it's actually kind of okay in the quieter scenes.

[28:17] But as soon as he gets mad, he's like, well, hey, you, shoot.

[28:21] He might as well be blowing in a jug the whole time and dancing around.

[28:25] Singing which side are you on or something.

[28:27] The characters in this movie are less mutants to aggressive accent choices.

[28:31] Their power is the power to caricature actual regional dialects and sounds.

[28:38] But yeah, Anya Taylor-Joy, I think they would have...

[28:40] Another thing where in the comics, of course, Ilyana is the younger sister of Colossus, the Russian X-Man.

[28:44] And I think they probably should have just cut the cord and made her a Russian-American with an American accent.

[28:51] Because it doesn't help her to have this kind of like...

[28:54] It's not even it would have been better if it was way over the top and it was like a like a Boris Badenov, like moose and squirrel type type Russian accent.

[29:02] But instead, it's just kind of like it sounds like a teen girl who is trying on a persona, you know?

[29:08] Yeah. I even for a second just had a character say, oh, she's Russian.

[29:13] Like when I'm like, OK, OK, yeah, I can kind of hear it.

[29:18] But I was literally spent 15 minutes of this movie trying to figure it out.

[29:23] the she's kind of like the troublemaker bad boy of the group uh which my wife pointed out it makes

[29:28] it weird that she was the one selected to give danny the tour around the place like she clearly

[29:33] didn't want the job oh well i assumed that was a punishment on the part of dr ray it's like you're

[29:38] being a jerk also oh here's my problem guys russian accent aside how are we not talking about how she

[29:43] is a puppet named lockheed who's a little dragon uh lockheed is shadow cats dragon iliana's best

[29:48] friend what is this all about suddenly i can't believe i can't believe i lost the bet that you

[29:53] brought that up first lucky did come from limbo right like that's where uh kitty pride encountered

[30:00] lucky isn't i i honestly don't magic bring lucky back and then sort of kitty like inherited lucky

[30:07] i that's no because they i think they went to i'm trying to remember when they first went to limbo

[30:11] and fought belasco uh but i think they had gone there before iliana was a character i'm not sure

[30:17] about that okay well i mean this is all nonsense that i'm just saying i'm just saying this is a

[30:22] small subset of people who listen to our show but don't care guys if you were if you're watching

[30:27] mank get ready for some problems if you're watching this get ready for some historical

[30:31] errors and the historical error here is that lockheed is kitty pride's dragon although in

[30:35] the version of this does uh the muppet that is magic have a human on her hand yes in the muppet

[30:42] version i think the dragon is probably uh what's his name uncle deadly uh the actual you know kind

[30:47] a dragon-y character and miss piggy of course would be eliana but she's not like a she's not

[30:52] like a cast-off muppet she's the one big name muppet that they bring in for the movie uh to

[30:56] like so that the real muffet aficionados have to be in there uh and you know okay okay okay okay

[31:02] i looked it up all right kitty uh yes kitty found lockheed but and it was you know kitty's dragon

[31:11] mostly but lockheed occasionally accompanies iliana after she joins the x-men's junior team

[31:18] the new mutants so this this actually this would be appropriate to the comic iliana all right i'll

[31:26] allow it okay this is not what i would call an ms a mank situation where so i don't have a good

[31:31] argument so okay who and what are the other mutants thank you uh so we're halfway through

[31:36] are mutant descriptions we have uh we have sam uh who has uh the mutant power to cannonball all

[31:43] over the place he's kind of a blue collar guy from kentucky he's quiet brooding has a very

[31:50] let's say aggressive accent yeah i think ernie put it best so when he isn't being quiet he is

[31:57] you know but you know he's constantly older brother from stranger things have we mentioned

[32:02] that i can't i don't think so he's constantly talking about being in the mines in kentucky

[32:06] constantly like never stops talking about being in the mines he's like madawan um and then we have

[32:13] roberto who is a uh young uh brazilian guy he's kind of a rich macho jock character who uh he it's

[32:22] clearly a facade he doesn't want people getting too close so they don't get burned up literally

[32:28] um yeah i agree that these are things that happen okay so we're introducing these characters as i

[32:38] said before that cast of characters yep motion carried and proceed and that's who's in the movie

[32:47] uh during her tour danny tries to run away she tries to get out of there

[32:52] of course she runs right into an invisible wall there's a force field around the whole place

[32:56] i also liked the the clumsy shorthand during this tour where they walk outside and immediately

[33:03] iliana uh takes a um take some like spray paint out of a hiding place and starts uh like she's

[33:12] gonna do some graffiti and it's like you're my lookout and i'm like wow shorthand for bad girl

[33:17] right like very quick so uh danny then has a flashback to about 10 minutes ago uh from the

[33:25] opening sequence of the movie uh she then climbs to the top of the abandoned clock tower uh she

[33:31] appears to be contemplating suicide and then rain shows up and they have a little chat and bonding

[33:36] and then they like fall down the floor and hug uh but they don't fall off the clock tower onto

[33:42] the floor they fall backwards back into the clock tower yeah there was a step in between where they

[33:47] went back inside yeah yeah uh there all the kids are being observed the as i said the high-tech

[33:54] security systems are doing biometric scans on everybody to tell us how mutant they are uh we're

[34:01] told uh the kids are all told that if they complete the treatment that they're going to be able to

[34:05] leave possibly graduate and join the x-men and that dr reyes has a mysterious like boss benefactor

[34:13] partner figure who the kids all assume is uh professor x around now sam has a this is when

[34:20] the movie kicks into the the real horror horror gear where sam is in the washing room uh the

[34:28] laundry room they call it or the washing room i don't know uh you know they don't really address

[34:32] it they never actually refer to it by anything so yeah that's in the that's in the goof section of

[34:38] the imdb page they don't address whether this is a washing room or a laundry room unlike unlike

[34:43] most movies that involve washing machines this movie never addresses what the name of the room

[34:48] in which they're located is uh sam has a psionic ghost event where he touches a washing machine

[34:56] and finds himself transported deep into the mines of kentucky surrounded by miners and his father

[35:03] before being slammed out of it and slammed up against the wall spooky yeah what's going on

[35:10] i don't know uh but during this whole time the the registers are reading psionic activity coming

[35:16] out of danny so there's an obvious connection there uh at least for us the viewers and the

[35:21] psionic readings explain why they picked up danny in the first place since everyone keeps saying

[35:25] what's your power what's your power what's your power uh that's the way they know she's a mutant

[35:28] because otherwise there were parts about their time so i was like well how do they know she is

[35:31] a mutant if they don't know what her power is they've never seen her use it but thank you for

[35:35] that explanation ellie because i had the same question yeah i mean this is me this is me

[35:40] providing an explanation based on the clues in the movie they never say that but i was like

[35:44] yeah they didn't even they didn't take any midichlorian levels so how do i know

[35:48] uh so danny and iliana gets uh get in a fight and they get stuck in solitary this is when we

[35:56] get a little bit more uh of an idea that iliana despite her you know her bad boy or bad girl front

[36:02] uh has uh you know she's got uh she's got a troubled past uh she has dreams of being a child

[36:10] surrounded by smiley face monster slendermen uh that dress like european fellows uh and i have to

[36:18] say these slendermen so not to spoil what you've probably already surmised this uh all of these

[36:27] manifestations are like the fears of these characters and i had to look on the wikipedia

[36:34] page to uh figure out what what iliana's fear was because this is the most well because it's the

[36:41] most like abstractly suggested one it is like just these like smiling men whereas everyone else's

[36:47] fear is literally like a horrible thing that like happened to them you know presented very uh

[36:54] straightforwardly i mean i thought it was i mean i thought it was pretty clear that she was being

[37:00] like human trafficked or something yeah that's creepos it seemed pretty that seemed pretty clear

[37:03] to me maybe maybe dan just is a purer heart and he doesn't think the worst of the world

[37:08] no i just they're the only ones that are not like a direct representation of the thing like these are

[37:16] monsters because the metaphor is that you know she had these monsters uh people do this to her

[37:24] Whereas the other ones are like basically what happened.

[37:27] Sam being in a mine and then seeing his dad and then blowing things up is not a metaphor for anything.

[37:32] Like it's – yeah, that's what happened to him.

[37:34] But yeah, I think it's – I think the movie is rightfully recognizing that it does not have the shoulders and the gravitas to carry a realistic depiction of trafficking.

[37:44] And so it's decided to do it in the form of Slender Man.

[37:47] Well, let's be clear.

[37:48] I was not arguing for that necessarily.

[37:51] No, I don't think you were arguing either way.

[37:53] I just, you know, that's...

[37:54] Why are these smiley Slenderman all over the place?

[37:56] Also, it has a scarcity of things that look or feel scary in any way.

[38:01] So they're just sort of like, maybe we can add this.

[38:03] Yeah.

[38:04] I mean, unless it is a little representation and she was kidnapped by a bunch of Slenderman

[38:08] with smiley faces.

[38:09] And I mean, that would be, you think she would make that clear to them that she would mention,

[38:14] oh yeah, these are the monsters that actually took me because we live in a superhero fantasy

[38:19] world.

[38:19] So why can't that exist?

[38:21] You know?

[38:21] I teleport and I have a soul sword and one armored arm and a dragon puppet that, you know, is kind of also a dragon, you know, so why not?

[38:29] You know, I live in a magic world.

[38:31] Why not, guys?

[38:31] What's wrong with that?

[38:32] And the character she's telling this to is a Muppet anyway.

[38:35] So, like, you know, if Muppets can be in this world, why not, you know?

[38:38] We didn't really talk about how Ilyana's power is to create these, like, stepping discs that allow her to teleport away.

[38:47] So, and you know me, my favorite X-Men ancillary characters are always the teleporters.

[38:56] I love Leela Chaney.

[38:57] I love Magic.

[38:58] Zero.

[38:58] Yep, I love them all.

[39:00] So, why does she stay in the place?

[39:07] Why doesn't she just leave?

[39:09] Do they address that?

[39:10] They do not.

[39:11] My guess is that perhaps there's some kind of block going on for her power, that the force fields are also affecting her ability to use her power to do that.

[39:21] Or also, she recognizes that, you know what, Deep Town, I do need help.

[39:25] And I have trauma that I need to deal with, and maybe this isn't the best place to deal with it, a severely understaffed haunted hospital.

[39:32] But, you know, you've got to play the cards, life deals you, you know?

[39:37] Now, the first time she teleports, forgive me if I'm wrong, I may have blinked and missed it.

[39:42] I don't think they do the portal thing, which annoyed me.

[39:44] I think she just like kind of bamfs like Nightcrawler.

[39:47] No, that's true.

[39:47] Later on, you see a portal.

[39:48] Well, I think they're making a distinction, I think, between when she teleports in this world and when she travels through the magical universe of Limbo, which she has either discovered through escaping trauma or has invented.

[40:01] I think they've just kind of given her general like magic powers.

[40:04] you know yeah not to get again way back too deep into nerd shit but i guess it's the new mutants so

[40:10] what are you going to do i i always thought that her teleportation power always was through limbo

[40:16] though she's yeah it was yeah okay hey man i'm just telling you what it looks like in the movie

[40:21] yeah yeah so uh around now rain has her own like psychic uh psionic ghost event where she is uh

[40:29] she's at the rundown church the abandoned church and she's confessing her sins to what you assume

[40:36] to be no one and then she hears a ghostly voice of a priest who had abused her in the past

[40:42] uh the kids that she is she's kind of have she mentioned already that she went to a priest and

[40:49] told him what her told her about her power and he told her she was evil that she was a demon

[40:53] and she has either either an m or a w branded on her neck i believe it is a w for which or wolf

[41:00] also works or her super name or or wolf or m also for me because rain as you'll find has or

[41:06] m for muppet yeah because rain as you'll notice has lou zealand powers where she kind of puts on

[41:11] a fluff a frilly outfit and throws fish i throw the fish and they come back to me i i maybe uh

[41:20] maybe that's why he chose a w because he knew that it could be seen as an m and they're all

[41:24] these levels they're all these yeah he likes references yeah um he likes you know he likes

[41:30] somebody uh given giving you something to think about um so the kids have uh i mean what good is

[41:35] religion if not to give us something to think about you know yeah no that's a good point uh

[41:39] the kids have a secret attic where they claim there's no cameras uh so they can do whatever

[41:43] they want although i think we do see that there is a camera up there watching them uh and they

[41:48] decide to play a game of truth or dare but actually there's no dare it's just truth and

[41:52] they use a lie detector which they use the blood pressure gauge and put they put that sleeve right

[41:56] over their clothes which i think is probably a representation of their their mutant powers

[42:00] they're like a heavy fucking denim jacket i'm like what do you think that's gonna do i mean

[42:06] guys i hate to break it to you lie detector tests also don't work so it's fine just like put it put

[42:10] it over a hat like who cares do you think the actor who plays sam when they're like okay so we

[42:16] have to you have to take off the denim jacket and he's like oh no i just got this full sleeve of

[42:20] tattoos he goes read my contract it says no jacket no shoot okay let's see it does say that he does

[42:27] not have to shoot scenes without the jacket on oh boy also kids that are spending or teenagers that

[42:32] are spending a lot of their days doing group counseling at night they like to blow off steam

[42:36] by forcing each other to unburden themselves with stories that's a good point i i they probably

[42:43] they probably don't have secrets from each other at this point so why you'd think they would really

[42:47] heavily go on to dare since they're all mutants and they can do crazy mutant things but no truth

[42:52] is like you know we we were gonna do dare but there's no budget it's like someone works at an

[42:58] ice cream store and they're like i gotta go home and get some scooping in i just i just gotta just

[43:02] relax this arm and scoop some more yeah so danny uh shares that story the demon bear uh once again

[43:09] just to do a little flashback so everybody has two bears living inside them there's a good bear

[43:14] and a bad bear there's we called it danny describes them as a yoga and yogi and a boo-boo

[43:20] and the boo-boo is the good bear and the yogi is the bad bear yeah so i mean you know he's a bad

[43:27] bear but he's not that bad it's mostly like picnic basket theft he's a thief dan he's a thief

[43:33] okay imagine this okay himself okay i'm i'm someone living close to if not below the poverty

[43:38] line i don't have a home and i don't and this is the only food i've been able to scrounge up i'm

[43:43] gonna go to the park to eat it and a bear takes it from me a very well-fed bear wearing a hat and a

[43:47] tie that's right he's a white collar bear and he's stealing my only meal not okay that's that's that's

[43:53] a hard crime that's bad so when you're a little kid this bear the the bad bear starts real small

[43:59] but as you get older that bad bear inside you gets way bigger right guys you can feel it you

[44:04] could feel it getting bigger inside of you well i mean this last few years i could feel the bad

[44:09] bear getting bigger inside of me certainly so uh they have this little hang and then the next

[44:14] morning reyes dr reyes yells at them she gets mad and tells them that they keep fucking around

[44:19] they'll never get to leave so of course they drug her and knock her out and they have another

[44:24] breakfast club style 90s kids party where they dance to bastards of young and i'm like i don't

[44:29] know that's like that feels like when you watch a movie from the 80s and the kids are all dancing

[44:32] to fucking doo-wop songs and you're like what well but also i was like look i love the replacements i

[44:40] was thrilled to hear bastards of young play but yeah no i was like is this what people the kids

[44:47] this age at this time period we're listening to well even the fact that they they literally drugged

[44:52] the tea of their only authority and what they're doing stuff they could have done probably when

[44:56] she was awake they're just dancing to music you know unless unless she's dr footloose i don't see

[45:01] it is a problem dr footloose i've come as soon as i can my foot is my foot is falling off my leg

[45:08] we get this a lot that's actually a mistake that's not what i specialize in

[45:12] it's just a name it's from the german food lotion

[45:17] the uh yeah so it does feel a little bit the uh the the non like the media in this movie whether

[45:28] it's the music or the buffy the vampire slayer feels a little bit like a dad is forcing his

[45:33] teenage kids to watch what he liked growing up yeah yeah so uh now that they have no supervision

[45:39] uh they go off and do their fun things uh rain and danny go out into a graveyard and watch the

[45:44] rain fall on the force field and they uh they make out a little bit uh berto and iliana go

[45:52] swimming or so he thinks because berto gets a visit from a little flaming ghost of his dead

[45:58] girlfriend that's right uh he has a psionic ghost event uh-oh uh and that forces him to manifest his

[46:07] uh mutant power which is to turn into a big flaming version of himself which is the same

[46:12] size as the normal version of himself and everybody freaks out and then dr reyes grabs a stick and

[46:17] pushes him into the pool which was pretty funny yeah you said you said that as if you thought it

[46:21] was disappointing that he didn't turn into a giant version of himself yeah i so okay this this this

[46:28] this flaming ghost is his girlfriend great name for a 90s band the flaming ghosts his girlfriend

[46:35] he actually accidentally set on fire now this butts up against like one of my problems with

[46:41] the x-men and mutant uh uh books in general as much as i love them so you've got he killed his

[46:49] girlfriend uh cannonball killed his dad and all of the like people in the mine danny is causing

[46:57] untold like chaos and i do not i don't think i need to say this i do not sanction the kidnapping

[47:07] and and uh either euthanasia or weaponization of uh these mutants in it but it also does raise

[47:14] the question like well these people are kind of dangerous they've killed a lot of people i mean

[47:21] it's accidental but i mean in iliana's case it was not accidental she brags about killing 18 men with

[47:26] her sword sure but those were her captors that that's like a little more understandable than

[47:30] just like you know a couple of them killed their parents accidentally i'm not you know like they

[47:35] shouldn't be punished for it at all but it is it does like cut against this idea of like yeah but

[47:40] they they've killed these people well this i'm gonna let you in on two thoughts i've had about

[47:44] my two two of my issues with the x-men one is societal and the other is biological so societal

[47:51] the x-men uh it's basically understood as canon uh in comic books readership world for anyone who's

[47:57] not a complex reader that the x-men are a civil rights allegory where it is about people who are

[48:02] different than everyone else who are demonized for their differences but you're right what they

[48:06] have is genuinely very dangerous and it's like the the analogy starts to fall apart when it's like

[48:11] well non-white people can't shoot laser beams uncontrollable laser beams from their eyes or

[48:16] like you know like it's there's there's no danger that a gay person is going to dark phoenix on you

[48:21] no yeah that that that a black person at the age of 13 will accidentally explode and kill a town

[48:27] you know like it's that doesn't happen uh so that's where that analogy starts to fall apart

[48:31] but the other thing is that so they're always talking about how they're the next step in

[48:34] evolution like homo superior is here and it's hard for me to see what is the evolutionary advantage

[48:40] of getting so burning hot that you cannot mate and reproduce and pass on your genes to another

[48:45] generation or like what is the evolutionary advantage of like be you know of exploding

[48:51] sometimes and and accidentally like it's evolution usually i mean there's all sorts of different

[48:56] mutations in nature but often the the mutations that are dead that hurt the host or their mate

[49:03] don't pass on because the end the things that so it's like you'd think that they're i guess

[49:08] what i'm saying is you think they would be more useful and less fighting based evolution x-men

[49:12] powers evolution usually it's not like suddenly someone is born with a sword for a hand because

[49:17] it helps them be a better fighter like fighting is not really one of the things that evolution

[49:21] gets you to well i mean like what you're saying makes sense in the context of like actual evolution

[49:26] as it happens although it does like i mean like there are all sorts of uh you know as you say

[49:33] Like detrimental mutations that aren't passed down, like that's how they're filtered out over the years.

[49:39] But mutations as they occur in Marvel Universe are just randomly springing up extremely powerful deviations from the norm.

[49:49] Well, yeah, but it's like I understand the evolutionary advantage of being able to control the weather.

[49:54] That would be great.

[49:54] That would help humanity immensely.

[49:56] But again, the lasers shooting out of the eyes or like so many mutants have the ability to absorb energy and then blast it out as lasers.

[50:03] And it's like, how is that helpful in any way?

[50:06] Digging tunnels, I guess?

[50:07] I'm just saying that it seems like the only evolutionary—

[50:09] Oh, go ahead, Dan. Sorry.

[50:10] No, I just did directly respond to Elliot.

[50:14] It seems like these mutations are not, like, naturally selected for, though, Elliot.

[50:18] What you're saying makes sense in the context of natural selection, not in the context of, like, oh, we gave birth to someone who's a teleporting demon blue thing.

[50:28] Well, and also because I guess the evolutionary purpose is to make them cool battlers for superhero battles.

[50:33] But, like, I've been reading a lot of the old X-Men issues with my older son.

[50:37] We're going through the first 60-some-odd issues in order.

[50:39] And it's so often so many times that he's like, why are they not using their powers smarter?

[50:45] Or he'll point at Beast and he'll be like, well, Beast just has big feet.

[50:47] Like, that's his mutation? He's got big feet?

[50:50] Sorry, Arnie, what were you saying?

[50:52] I was just going to say, in this movie, their only really evolutionary advantage is the ability to kill their parents.

[50:58] which i mean freud would tell you is the ultimate mutant power ultimate one yeah

[51:03] yeah anytime i got assigned extra chores i wish i was a mutant right

[51:08] um allergic to homework okay so that's not a mute that's not a power that is a mutation an allergy

[51:16] but it's not okay so danny's powers uh continue to intensify the nightmares become uh even more

[51:25] vivid uh and more and they're having more of an effect on reality uh at one point rain gets

[51:31] assaulted in the shower by uh the like like a zombie version of the priest that she had killed

[51:37] who had previously branded her and he brands her again this time on her neck uh and it's horrible

[51:43] and uh then uh reyes uh around now reyes gets a hilariously long loading email where it's one of

[51:53] those like those like sci-fi emails where like you're slowly watching it to get typed out and

[51:58] you're like shouldn't this like why is this worse uh i love the idea of a software developer that

[52:05] was like i want people to feel the excitement of watching a story unfold so i'll have each word

[52:09] type out individually instead of just all the text coming up on screen which would take less

[52:14] power less computing power yeah uh i mean it's got killer graphics and that's what kids like

[52:20] Can I say if you could send a dramatic email like that, like if that was just an option in your Gmail or whatever, I would do it occasionally, if not too much.

[52:30] I think you're right.

[52:32] I think, I mean, I think we're making, we got to TM this shit right now, right?

[52:35] So somebody doesn't, somebody doesn't steal our idea.

[52:39] Dan, this is your idea too.

[52:41] You got to get in on this.

[52:42] Wait, wait, wait, since when was Dan involved in this idea?

[52:46] So you're saying, it seems like Stuart is saying that it's a covenant that must be entered into with all parties.

[52:53] Yeah, everybody here, everybody in the room.

[52:55] Otherwise, Smiley will show up and kill us.

[52:58] Exactly.

[52:59] And steal our IP.

[53:00] Yeah, so Reyes gets this email and explains that Dany is too powerful that she has to eliminate Dany.

[53:07] So, Dan, I'm sorry if by saying Dany all this time it makes you uncomfortable.

[53:10] She just has the same name as you, basically.

[53:13] Apology accepted.

[53:14] Reyes takes Danny to the basement.

[53:16] She, you know, I think she explains to do tests or something.

[53:21] But then she, at this point, she's like, even though she, that Danny is too powerful to live, Reyes knows she has to kill her.

[53:30] She slowly poisons her, giving her ample time to use her mutant powers to create an army of Slenderman that attack Ilyana, Sam, Berto.

[53:41] There's Slenderman running all over this asylum, right?

[53:44] Attacking everybody except the one person who is hurting Danny at that moment.

[53:48] Mm-hmm.

[53:49] Well, she doesn't have control of her powers yet, Elliot.

[53:52] That's kind of the point.

[53:53] I guess that's true.

[53:54] That's fair.

[53:54] Rain sneaks through the ducts and jumps down on—

[53:58] like, Rain is sneaking through the ducts.

[54:01] Ilyana is teleporting all over the place.

[54:03] Sam is using his blasting powers, which basically, like, he explodes and flies,

[54:08] blowing up everything near him, which is great in these enclosed hallways.

[54:12] Well, there's a reason his mutant superhero name is Cannonball.

[54:16] It makes me think, like, if Oldboy in the movie, Oldboy, had had this power, that fight scene wouldn't have been as cool, right?

[54:26] Instead of having the power of looking old even when he's a young man, which is the same power Gary Oldman has in Manc.

[54:34] Stuart, I imagined you, like this was your, that you were one of those senators in an X-Men movie or comic who's like trying to get rid of mutants, but your reasoning was just like how it would make Oldboy less cool.

[54:48] Now, if Oldboy had telekinesis, for instance, he could just pick people up and throw them around.

[54:56] Now, I'm Senator Stuart Wellington from the great state of Louisiana.

[55:00] Now, let's say your old boy had Rubik's Quartz eye lasers, then that hallway fight scene would be over real fast.

[55:08] How do you say to that, Professor Xavier?

[55:10] Every time the old boy stared at his daughter lover, he would accidentally blast her to pieces.

[55:18] This argument is basically like anti-mutant in the same way you'd be like anti-cell phones in movies.

[55:26] it ruined all the plot points uh i do want to point out that sam uses power and he blows these

[55:33] slenderman apart uh but previously they'd address that though he can use his power he can never land

[55:39] and so he's always like slamming into things and he's got broken bones and his face is all fucked

[55:44] up but he uses power here and then like the next time we see him he's totally fine like they don't

[55:49] even show him land i'm guessing it's because there's i mean this whole movie feels like

[55:53] there's about a third of the effects shots were just not included well here's my guess here's my

[55:57] guess about why he's so why he's so beat up so i don't know if it's this way but in in the comic

[56:02] books cannonball when he's in cannonball form cannot be hurt he's super tough so i think it's

[56:07] because i think he's those are his injuries from the mind disaster that like he set off this mind

[56:11] disaster and then broke his arm when it caved in on him or or maybe a grendel was like hey why'd

[56:16] you blow up my mind and beat him up or something like that yeah so uh so they realize that they've

[56:23] been duped that the they find like the files in the in reyes's office as because once again there's

[56:30] nobody else in this place and they realize that they're being trained to be killers uh and they

[56:36] decide to turn on reyes which is great because at this point rain has already jumped down out of the

[56:41] out of the ducts and slashed

[56:43] up Reyes super fucking bad.

[56:45] Like, at first

[56:47] I'm like, oh, she just scratched her, but later on we see

[56:49] Reyes and she's like ripped to shreds,

[56:51] dude. She's been Freddy Krueger'd in a half.

[56:53] She's like holding her innards in with her

[56:55] arm, basically.

[56:56] Yeah, so

[56:59] they think they got the

[57:01] jump on her, and Reyes

[57:03] instead traps them in force bubbles,

[57:05] which look terrible.

[57:07] This is a terrible effect.

[57:10] They are in like glowing like Star Trek bubbles, and she's slowly smushing Danny and smushing them all in these bubbles while giving some kind of a speech about how, I don't know, like they're too powerful to live or something, and they should have been more respectful or something.

[57:27] Now, I want to briefly defend not this scene or the bubbles, which do look terrible, but the character of Cecilia Reyes in the comic books, what sets her apart from the others is she is a good person who does not want to be a superhero and just wants to be a doctor.

[57:40] And so I felt like they were really slandering this character by making her so incredibly evil.

[57:44] When in the comics, she is maybe the most reasonable character in the entire Marvel universe.

[57:48] She's like, OK, I can make force fields, but like I could probably help people more by being a trauma surgeon than by like fighting Mr. Sinister, who gets hinted at in this movie, but we never actually see him.

[57:59] Maybe they wanted to use her because they're like, we need at least one superpower that we can actually depict in this movie.

[58:04] Because every other, even like, even werewolf transformation, like they can't depict almost any of the powers in this movie very well, which is one of the bigger problems, I think.

[58:16] Yeah, I mean, I don't know if it's because they chose characters that are hard.

[58:20] Like, I don't know if they chose Ilyana Rasputin, if the script originally had like Shadowcat or something.

[58:25] That's why Lockheed's there.

[58:26] But then they're like, oh, we got Anna Taylor-Joy.

[58:29] She'd be perfect for this role.

[58:30] I don't know.

[58:31] She does such a great Russian accent.

[58:34] her resume says does russian accent so this is perfect do we need to hear the accent first to

[58:39] try it out no no no she's great did you see queen's gambit it's not out yet but i saw an early cut of

[58:43] it it's fantastic yeah and then she gets on set she's like y'all this is my accent and they're

[58:47] like oh boy oh uh okay so she's great in emma dot she'll be great in this again great actor

[58:57] she's really good she's really good in lots of she's great in the witch like she's really good

[59:02] lots of stuff this but this accent does not thoroughbreds very very good and uh yeah and

[59:09] the split glassiverse right yeah so verse yeah so reyes has him in force bubbles she's slowly

[59:16] smushing them and then uh-oh what's that there's snow outside it sounds like a wind uh-oh the wall

[59:22] gets ripped open and there's a giant demon bear there and the demon bear totally scarfs down reyes

[59:28] just like in Deep Blue Sea.

[59:30] It's awesome.

[59:31] It is just like in Deep Blue Sea.

[59:33] Let's talk a little bit about this demon bear.

[59:37] No, Dan, let's not.

[59:39] Let's talk about Muppets again.

[59:40] Well, Dan, the thing is that everybody has two bears living inside them.

[59:44] I know this is meant to be up to the audience interpretation,

[59:48] but do we think that's a good bear or a bad bear?

[59:51] Now, I think that's a good question

[59:55] because it is a bad bear who becomes kind of a good bear.

[59:58] yeah well it's well she says she also as it here is it later she says that the two bears

[1:00:03] you decide what you feed them that's the empowering message of the movie is you can feed the bad bear

[1:00:08] with your fears and your hatred or you can feed the good bear with love and that's the one that

[1:00:11] gets stronger is the one that you feed so maybe she feeds it a bunch of love and that's why it

[1:00:15] turns into a good bear i don't know maybe there's two bears no she feeds it a doctor here that's

[1:00:20] true a bad doctor so it makes it into a good bear this is confusing i guess in every bear there are

[1:00:25] two bears a good bear and a bad bear and depending on which one is i guess getting it getting its

[1:00:31] tummy scratched at the moment that's how the bear goes dan's it's all bears all the way down

[1:00:34] everything's got two bears in it i'm staring into the void and it's staring back no uh when you

[1:00:40] stare into the bears the bears also stare into you yeah yeah that's what my buddy uh verner

[1:00:46] herzog says he says there's two bears in every party a little bear and a big bear one is good

[1:00:53] I think you're ready to be a character in this movie.

[1:00:55] And in one bear, there's two people.

[1:00:57] That's the bear from Grizzly Man.

[1:00:58] Jawohl!

[1:01:00] Yeah, yeah, it's me, Werner Herzog!

[1:01:03] My power is a secret.

[1:01:07] It's me, Werner Herzog,

[1:01:09] and we're going to be checking out

[1:01:10] the 10 hottest spring break beaches today

[1:01:13] on E's Hottest Spring Break Beaches,

[1:01:16] hosted by me, Werner Herzog.

[1:01:18] So Danny at this point has passed out,

[1:01:21] the team is left with this fucking demon bear i wanted to talk about this bear a bit

[1:01:26] number one i i i genuinely like the look of this bear i like the the demon eyes i like the way the

[1:01:33] fur kind of like coils into smoke like it gets indistinct on the edges but i do think that

[1:01:39] there's a weird thing that movies always do which is they like you know put a little too uh too much

[1:01:45] sugar in the sauce or something like like it doesn't i think this bear would have been much

[1:01:51] more scary if it was just maybe slightly bigger than a real grizzly bear and just a little more

[1:02:00] like just a solid thing that a human mind you know has some sort of familiarity with it because

[1:02:06] when this is big albeit cool looking bear i'm just like okay well this is cgi and if it was a little

[1:02:15] more like fantastic but down to earth i would have been a lot more frightened by it oh see i

[1:02:20] have to disagree with you there because i think i like this bear a lot but i think they do they

[1:02:24] are on the side making it look too much like a real bear and i wish it i wish it had more of

[1:02:29] that bill sinkovich feel of being kind of like semi-abstract and scratchy and hard to to wrap

[1:02:34] your mind around but i mean different bears for different cares no no elliot elliot i think that

[1:02:40] you make a good point i think maybe the problem is it's neither fish nor fowl like it should have

[1:02:44] gone one way or the other they show some of the original drawings or at least recreations of them

[1:02:49] during the credits as if to say like see this could work yeah and and bill sienkiewicz did the

[1:02:56] did the art during the credits to all the character art oh that's yeah surprisingly involved yeah yeah

[1:03:03] give that man money please uh so uh danny's passed out and of course she's passed out of the party

[1:03:11] And she invited this fucking demon bear that everyone else has to deal with.

[1:03:14] So they spirit Danny away.

[1:03:16] Rain takes her along over to the, she takes Danny into the abandoned church.

[1:03:22] Ilyana decides, hey, it's time for me to use my powers.

[1:03:27] I'm magical.

[1:03:28] So she pulls out her soul sword and starts flipping around, jumping, flipping, cutting at the bear.

[1:03:34] Sam tries to help.

[1:03:37] he starts blasting

[1:03:39] Beartoe eventually decides to use his powers

[1:03:42] and he burns his clothes off

[1:03:44] and then he briefly fights the bear

[1:03:47] before getting smushed

[1:03:48] and it's great

[1:03:50] they all get to use their powers

[1:03:51] they all kind of come together

[1:03:53] and then Danny eventually wakes up

[1:03:55] and calms down the demon bear

[1:03:57] and pats its nose

[1:03:58] the end of the movie

[1:04:00] and I guess everything's forgiven

[1:04:02] what are they going to take her to bear court?

[1:04:06] like I don't understand

[1:04:06] Well, she even apologizes, right?

[1:04:09] She's like, I'm sorry I brought this demon bear.

[1:04:11] And they're like, no, you freed us with this demon bear.

[1:04:15] And she's like, I guess I did.

[1:04:16] And then they find Dr. Reyes' chunky heel covered in blood.

[1:04:21] So they're like, she's totally dead.

[1:04:22] Full of blood.

[1:04:23] Not just covered, full.

[1:04:24] Like, poured blood out of it.

[1:04:25] The idea that they're like, well, we saw her swallowed whole by a bear.

[1:04:28] Is she dead?

[1:04:29] Here's her shoe.

[1:04:30] That clinches it.

[1:04:31] She must be.

[1:04:32] There's no other way for her shoe to be removed from her foot other than death.

[1:04:36] It's a real ruby slippers type situation.

[1:04:39] It's either her shoe or it's the shoe of the evil stepsisters, the original version of Cinderella.

[1:04:45] I don't know.

[1:04:46] All I know is there's blood in a shoe.

[1:04:48] In this chunky shoe.

[1:04:49] Hi, I'm Werner Hershue.

[1:04:50] Welcome down to Werner Hershog's Hershoes, where you can find the best in ladies' shoes.

[1:04:55] And if you stare into the shoe, you'll see the total emptiness of the cosmos.

[1:04:59] We live in a random universe with no god in charge.

[1:05:04] but I'm in charge of getting you the best shoes at Werner Hershoes.

[1:05:07] Now, do not confuse this with Werner Herzog's horseshoes,

[1:05:12] which is a separate venture of mine.

[1:05:15] You want the horses or luck?

[1:05:17] It's a horseshoe range attached to a bar.

[1:05:19] It's a kind of bar game.

[1:05:21] It's horseshoes.

[1:05:22] You're throwing the horseshoes.

[1:05:23] And please do not confuse it with Werner Herzog's In Her Shoes,

[1:05:26] my shot-for-shot remake of the film In Her Shoes.

[1:05:29] Arnie, do you have any fun accents you like to do?

[1:05:33] No, but I would just like to let the listener know that it's very, it's extra enjoyable to get to actually watch these moments because it just, I enjoy watching Stuart kind of, you can tell he's like, I'm waiting this one out.

[1:05:44] Yeah.

[1:05:45] Anyway, I'm supposed to be telling you about Cancun.

[1:05:48] Here in Cancun, we're having the hottest ladies and the hunkiest guys here on spring break.

[1:05:54] Let's go on to Miami Beach.

[1:05:55] Miami Beach is famous for its spring break parties, and I'm enjoying them all.

[1:05:59] Anyway, we've got eight more beaches to get to.

[1:06:01] I'm going to hurt somebody.

[1:06:02] Oh, wow.

[1:06:03] So, now our team, now they're free, they kind of set off down the road, and their only clue is that Reyes was working for the Essex Corporation.

[1:06:16] Of course, a reference to Nathaniel, is it Nathaniel Essex?

[1:06:19] Nathaniel Essex, yes, Mr. Sinister.

[1:06:21] So, that was a tease.

[1:06:23] Apparently, Jon Hamm was even cast to play Mr. Sinister.

[1:06:26] What a shame.

[1:06:27] What a great character.

[1:06:29] okay well that's the end of uh the new mutants so we should do our final judgments whether this

[1:06:35] is a good bad movie a bad bad movie or a movie we kind of liked i before i'm sorry before we

[1:06:42] make the judgment can i ask is this the only superhero movie where at the end the superheroes

[1:06:47] are the only characters alive and in fact every other character in the movie is dead at the hands

[1:06:54] of those superheroes yeah it's a good question that is a good question every character you ever

[1:07:00] see in the past or present has been killed by the superheroes except i guess for buffy the vampire

[1:07:06] slayer on tv yeah wow trying to remember let's see the incredibles no incredibles 2 no spider-man 2

[1:07:16] no superman 4 no uh yeah so this movie uh when when we were watching it earlier today

[1:07:25] um audrey said a line that i had to write down which is i feel like i've hated better movies

[1:07:32] which is not to say that like that is not saying like oh this is below hatred it's more

[1:07:36] that like there are films that have uh inspired an emotional reaction uh like a negative one

[1:07:46] that are better than this like the fact that this is just kind of there like i don't dislike this

[1:07:53] movie but there's not like it's almost like everything is in perfect balance uh good and bad

[1:08:01] such as to make it nothing everything is in perfect balance raves dan mccoy of the new mutants

[1:08:06] both bears are the same size i mean like i i guess if i was if i was pressed there are two

[1:08:14] bears in this movie great and better if i was pressed to put this into one of our bullshit

[1:08:19] categories i guess the closest one is kind of liked it because i like this kind of stuff and

[1:08:27] nothing in it like made me mad and it's of that thing that we've invoked a lot of times we're

[1:08:33] like oh if you're like dozing on the couch this would be a great way to spend your time but what

[1:08:38] do you guys have to say no i i would also call this a movie i kind of like just because it's

[1:08:42] fine like i didn't i didn't it's not terrible even though it's we made fun of it a sure bunch but

[1:08:48] it's like not really scary for a horror movie it's not really exciting for a superhero movie

[1:08:53] and i again i'd be curious to have to have somebody just watch it with somebody who doesn't

[1:08:57] know the new mutants and it's like why is this happening who are these people but it's not

[1:09:01] terrible it's just kind of like all right like in a world where there are 40 superhero movies a year

[1:09:06] it seems coming out like there's room for a mediocre superhero movie like this yeah

[1:09:12] yeah i mean it's kind of tough uh like i obviously like i like the breakfast club

[1:09:18] i like nightmare on elm street three dream warriors um but and i feel like this movie

[1:09:24] obviously tries to reference those and it tries to reference various like coming of age stuff

[1:09:29] and it i don't know like i feel like it it doesn't do i mean as you said it's not really scary

[1:09:37] and the attempt to like do coming of age like a coming of age story or a like like coming into

[1:09:43] your powers has been done so many times and so many times yeah or coming into bears um but like

[1:09:51] i mean after after seeing spider-man into the spider-verse wait hold on i'm so sorry i gotta

[1:09:56] that dan it's the other way around it's it's not coming into bears it's it's the other that's

[1:10:02] good things come in bear no no it's it's getting out of bears you want to get out of that bear

[1:10:07] yeah you want to get all the cum out of that bear no it's good things come in bears

[1:10:13] the but like with something like spider-man into the spider-verse where we see miles morales like

[1:10:21] take his leap of faith like and it actually elicits a movie that actually elicits an

[1:10:26] emotional response it feels it's just it's like to see the like warmed over warmed over warmed

[1:10:33] over version of that yeah uh is is pretty lame so i don't know i feel like i'd say bad bad just

[1:10:38] because i like it just washed over me and is going to be forgotten yeah i i mean i sort of i did kind

[1:10:46] of like it it was weird though i think i would almost like is there a category that's bad good

[1:10:50] where it's like not bad enough to be entertaining like it's almost worse than being good bad because

[1:10:57] because there just wasn't enough of the sort of joy of how bad it was um and mostly what pulled

[1:11:04] me through was being like hypothetically i like a lot of this stuff but it's just the movie it's

[1:11:10] almost as empty as that weird hospital it's just like there's not enough in it yeah not enough

[1:11:17] bears um yeah the yeah both bears are too small the yeah i mean i think i actually i feel like

[1:11:23] arnie you have done this podcast a service because we have been dancing around this idea for

[1:11:29] fucking years the idea of a movie that is well made enough but is clearly bad like a bad good

[1:11:36] movie like it's not actually interesting enough to be a good bad i don't know yeah no no it's

[1:11:44] The problem is not the production or the logic or anything like that.

[1:11:47] It's just a certain soullessness that comes with being sent back by the studio to remake the movie several times.

[1:11:53] Yeah, and I like the way Arnie put it, because while watching it, I did invoke a philosophy that we've espoused on the show a few times, which is, if this movie was a better movie, this movie would be good.

[1:12:11] So are you saying that I'm kind of like the Danny of this podcast, a stranger who comes in and sort of brings something new out of everybody?

[1:12:20] Torments us with our past traumas.

[1:12:23] Yeah, and eats a doctor.

[1:12:25] Sure.

[1:12:25] I'm going first.

[1:12:32] It's me, Jackie Kayshun.

[1:12:33] Man, she's always this bossy.

[1:12:35] I'm Laurie Kilmartin.

[1:12:39] We're a bunch of stand-up comics, and we've been doing comedy like 60 years total, both of us.

[1:12:45] But we look amazing.

[1:12:47] We're working out.

[1:12:49] We drop every Monday on MaxFun, and it's called The Jackie Laurie Show.

[1:12:52] And you can listen to it and learn about comedy and learn about anger management and all the things.

[1:12:57] And Jackie is married but childless, and I'm unmarried but childful.

[1:13:02] So together, we make one complete woman.

[1:13:08] Is that just what's going to happen?

[1:13:09] Yeah, yeah.

[1:13:10] And we try to make Kyle laugh just like that and say, oh, my God, every episode.

[1:13:15] It's a good job.

[1:13:16] Jackie and Lori Show, Mondays, only on Maximum Fun.

[1:13:20] Hi, I'm James, host of Minority Corner, which is a podcast that's all about intersectionality.

[1:13:28] It's hosted by James, the guest host, every week.

[1:13:30] Discussing all sorts of wonderful issues, nerdy and political.

[1:13:34] Pop culture.

[1:13:35] Black queer feminism.

[1:13:38] race, sexuality, news.

[1:13:40] You're going to learn your history, their self-empowerment,

[1:13:43] and it's told by what feels like your best friend.

[1:13:45] Why should someone listen to Minority Corner?

[1:13:47] Why not?

[1:13:48] Oh my God, free stuff.

[1:13:49] There's not free stuff.

[1:13:50] The listeners of Minority Corner will enjoy some necessary LOLs,

[1:13:53] but mainly a look at what's happening in our world through a colorful lens.

[1:13:57] People will get the perspective of marginalized communities.

[1:14:01] I feel heard. I feel seen.

[1:14:02] Like you said, you need to understand how to be more proactive in your community,

[1:14:05] and this is a great way to get started.

[1:14:07] Join us every Friday on MaxFun or wherever you get your podcasts.

[1:14:10] Minority Corner, because together we're the majority.

[1:14:13] Hey, you know what?

[1:14:15] The Flophouse is sponsored in part by ExpressVPN.

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[1:17:02] you get unlimited downloads of everything in their library and even if your subscription ends

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[1:17:12] marty mcfly's parents didn't get together it doesn't disappear and fade away now i love stock

[1:17:17] footage um they i'm very excited about uh being able to put things together for storyblocks uh

[1:17:23] stock media dan you actually made something for our upcoming live show using storyblocks and how

[1:17:29] was the experience was it super smooth because it seemed to take you no time it was actually

[1:17:32] very smooth you just uh you can search through their uh library you can find what you want they

[1:17:38] have many different variations on basically anything you can think of and you just download

[1:17:44] it straight use it it looks beautiful that's great you'll see the results in our live show

[1:17:49] more about that live show in a little bit but first why not go to storyblocks explore their

[1:17:53] library and subscribe today at storyblocks.com slash flop that's storyblocks.com slash flop

[1:18:00] and i got some jojo jojo jojo jumbotron that's right are you at home right now unable to deal

[1:18:12] with the existential dread of daily life?

[1:18:15] Well, then you're probably on Netflix.

[1:18:18] But there's just so much there

[1:18:21] and so little time.

[1:18:22] Well, on every day in 2021,

[1:18:26] netflixandchillyear.com

[1:18:30] will go through every Netflix original movie

[1:18:33] and talk about what's great about it,

[1:18:35] what's weird about it,

[1:18:37] and what it's all about.

[1:18:39] So go to netflixandchillyear.com or if you want a daily email full of Netflix goodness, go to netflixandchillyear.substack.com.

[1:18:52] That's right. Visit netflixandchillyear.com or subscribe at netflixandchillyear.substack.com.

[1:19:00] I got a second jumbotron while my mouth gets used to talking again.

[1:19:08] there we go did you have to do like a hard reboot or what was that yep ivan ivan ivan

[1:19:19] vanya boobala you can't just venmo me 69.69 on christmas day as a present that's not the

[1:19:28] christmas spirit now you have to listen to the peaches tell you how much i love you and have

[1:19:33] stewart apologize on my behalf for what a sloppy game master i can be sorry dude

[1:19:40] yeah yeah yep that's it that's the message dan cosigns on that message uh okay guys i mentioned

[1:19:53] a live show earlier let's talk briefly about that and i mentioned it even earlier before that that's

[1:19:58] right saturday february 6th at 9 p.m eastern 6 p.m pacific we're going to be doing our first

[1:20:04] virtual zoom live show of the year uh you'll be able to watch it uh what through our youtube page

[1:20:11] or something i don't remember anyway uh you'll get a like no absolutely all the information will

[1:20:16] be with you when you get the tickets so we're gonna be talking about the movie teen wolf that's

[1:20:20] right everyone's favorite movie about a basketball playing werewolf tell me when you like more tell

[1:20:26] me a basketball playing werewolf movie that you like more i defy it we're gonna have an in-depth

[1:20:31] but not too long discussion of the movie we're each going to give original presentations will

[1:20:34] mine have more monster content you better believe it there's going to be an audience q a section

[1:20:38] and much more i already told you dan's been messing around with storyblocks footage making

[1:20:43] something for the show the price only ten dollars and don't worry if you're not available saturday

[1:20:48] february 6th at 9 p.m eastern 6 p.m pacific because you have some other thing going on in

[1:20:52] your life other than wanting to hear three old friends of yours talking about a teenage wolf

[1:20:56] that's okay the show is going to be up for you archived for one week after the event that's right

[1:21:02] until saturday february 16th you'll be able to just watch that video just light it up and let

[1:21:07] it roll and then watch it up and watch it down just go to just go to theflophouse.simpletix.com

[1:21:14] don't worry about the www just go to theflophouse.simpletix.com because dan was there an

[1:21:19] issue of some kind with internet url language that you want to tell people about yeah yeah i'm sorry

[1:21:24] the last uh episode i mentioned that i said that if you don't put the http part in uh it would go

[1:21:33] to it whereas or if you did put it in it wouldn't go to it uh that is incorrect someone had tweeted

[1:21:39] at me that there were problem i misremembered the problem is do not put the www in uh that will take

[1:21:46] you to a dead link if you uh do not put it in it works i have no idea why the modern internet

[1:21:53] browser cannot figure that out for you but uh in the absence of a smarter one don't put the www in

[1:22:00] yeah don't confuse your dumb stupid internet browser just go to theflophouse.simpletix.com

[1:22:07] and get ready to laugh as we three guys dan mccoy stuart wellington and of course america's rascal

[1:22:13] Elliot Kalin talk about the movie that catapulted Michael J. Fox to lycanthropic stardom. That's

[1:22:19] Teen Wolf featuring the Flophouse guys, Saturday, February 6th at 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific.

[1:22:25] Other time zones, please do the math. I do not know what time it will be in the other time zones.

[1:22:30] That's flufflophouse.simpletix.com. Only $10. Just go ahead and do it. Just come and join us.

[1:22:35] Well, now let's move on to letters from listeners. Listeners have things to say too. We've been

[1:22:42] hogging the microphone what is it what's going on in their minds elliot no you don't have it

[1:22:49] i mean okay if you ask for it then

[1:22:54] it's your turn listeners it's your turn to make your voice heard you've been listening to us

[1:23:07] yakking around talking about mutants and all that stuff and now it's your turn tell us what's on

[1:23:14] your mind listeners tell us to be more kind listeners or tell us to have richard kind on

[1:23:21] the show listeners that's kind i rhymed it with grind that's right listeners write in and tell us

[1:23:27] what you've got to say that's right listeners write in and tell us whatever you want whatever

[1:23:34] you may listeners it's your turn listeners don't be burned because listeners this is your chance

[1:23:42] to be the stars of the flop house listeners hey listeners don't let this chance pass you up hey

[1:23:54] this is your time to get the best hey letters this is the time steinman write this

[1:23:59] to be the ones with the spotlight on you.

[1:24:03] Ah, it burns your eyes a little.

[1:24:04] That's okay, because now you're the star of the day.

[1:24:08] Listeners, write on in and tell us what you want to say to us

[1:24:13] at the Flophouse featuring Arnie Nykamp.

[1:24:16] But it's Arnie Nykamp, really.

[1:24:18] Thank you.

[1:24:20] All right, no, you got the name right.

[1:24:21] You got to start the song over.

[1:24:22] Sorry, we got to get good and clean tape.

[1:24:24] No, no, no, no, no, no.

[1:24:27] No, this first letter is from Elizabeth, last name withheld, who writes,

[1:24:32] Hi, Beaches.

[1:24:34] Your many about prequels reminded me of an odd prequel watching experience I had.

[1:24:39] My old job used to take the whole office to the movies every summer.

[1:24:43] We would go to an 8 a.m. screening.

[1:24:46] They bought us popcorn, soda, and candy for breakfast, and we went to work afterwards.

[1:24:50] This was called, without irony, a morale event.

[1:24:54] I don't know.

[1:24:55] That sounds good to me.

[1:24:56] That sounds great.

[1:24:56] Yeah, what, did it work for a kid-based company, a company run by kids?

[1:24:59] Because that sounds amazing.

[1:25:00] Yeah, but anyway, Elizabeth goes on to say,

[1:25:03] The first summer I worked there, we went to see X-Men First Class.

[1:25:08] I'd never seen any X-Men movies and knew nothing about them,

[1:25:12] but figured since it was a prequel, I wouldn't be confused.

[1:25:15] I enjoyed the movie thoroughly and was probably alone in the audience

[1:25:19] in finding Magneto's heel turn to be a shocking betrayal.

[1:25:24] To this day, I have never watched another X-Men movie

[1:25:28] because all I want from the franchise

[1:25:29] is for Charles and Magneto to be best friends.

[1:25:33] Have any of you ever had a similar experience

[1:25:37] being blindsided by a plot twist

[1:25:39] that you really should have seen coming?

[1:25:42] Thanks for all the laughs.

[1:25:43] Elizabeth, last name withheld.

[1:25:45] You know, this is an even dumber one than usual.

[1:25:50] What? The letter? I thought it was perfectly great.

[1:25:54] How rude, Daniel.

[1:25:55] Hey there, listener, Elizabeth, don't take it personal.

[1:25:59] Danta's working through some things,

[1:26:01] and I'm going to sing about how much we love that you rode into us.

[1:26:05] No, I was saying what I was about to say was going to be dumb.

[1:26:10] Yeah, you just insulted a listener that was dumb.

[1:26:13] Super dumb.

[1:26:13] Yeah.

[1:26:14] Okay.

[1:26:15] Arnie looks concerned over there.

[1:26:18] He's like, I can't believe what a shit show operation they're running over here.

[1:26:21] You're getting the classic kneecap glare.

[1:26:23] Okay, so I remember I watched Tim Burton's movie of Sweeney Todd, which I had, like, so I watched it.

[1:26:36] It was the first version of Sweeney Todd that I ever saw.

[1:26:39] Much later, I became, like, a bit of a fanatic watching three different recorded versions in one live.

[1:26:49] But when I revisited the Burton movie, like, years later, before I had seen it again, I found myself involved in it.

[1:27:02] And I totally forgot until, like, right before he kills the beggar woman that it's his wife.

[1:27:09] And I have no idea how, like, the most obvious twist.

[1:27:13] But also, like, I'd seen the movie before.

[1:27:16] And somehow my brain had, like, erased all that so I could enjoy yet again and be like, no, no, sweetie, no, no.

[1:27:24] I guess spoiler alert.

[1:27:29] Yeah, spoiler alert.

[1:27:30] I mean, I feel like spoiler alert for a lot of what we'll talk about here, right, if we're talking about twists.

[1:27:34] I mean, I couldn't think of any particular twists that have blindsided me, though I'm sure there are.

[1:27:39] But I often am the guy who, when it looks like the heroes are about to win, I'm like, great, movie's almost over.

[1:27:44] And then it turns out that this is the part where the heroes almost win and then lose.

[1:27:47] And then you have the real climax a little bit later.

[1:27:49] And every time I'm like, oh, there's more movie.

[1:27:52] Oh, okay.

[1:27:52] Never mind then.

[1:27:53] You hate third acts, it sounds like.

[1:27:57] It's more I want shorter second acts.

[1:28:00] I don't like the second act fake out.

[1:28:01] I'd rather just be like, guys, give me a story.

[1:28:04] Let's do it.

[1:28:04] Unless it's like a really good fake out and then a really good third act.

[1:28:08] But there's a lot of movies where there's a kind of satisfying fight scene.

[1:28:11] And I'm like, great.

[1:28:12] Thank you, movie.

[1:28:13] And then it goes on to a big, like, explosions and glowy things ending.

[1:28:18] And I don't need that.

[1:28:19] Yeah, it's more like there's a fourth act.

[1:28:20] And the thing is, like, I agree with you overall.

[1:28:24] I want these movies to be more streamlined.

[1:28:26] But then sometimes I will see one that I like and will be a little disappointed that that fourth act isn't there just because my brain has been trained by other worse movies to expect it.

[1:28:40] I guess there's a movie I recommended a few episodes ago, and Dan recommended hundreds of episodes ago, called The Silent Partner.

[1:28:46] And there's a character in that who's literally like, oh, the bad guy's going to kill us.

[1:28:49] Oh, he won't stand for this.

[1:28:50] He's going to kill us.

[1:28:51] And then that character gets murdered, and I was like, oh, this is – I was not sure that was going to happen, and it's so much more gruesome than I expected it to be.

[1:28:58] So that was me kind of getting surprised by Twists.

[1:29:01] What about you guys?

[1:29:02] You like Twists, right?

[1:29:03] I'm usually surprised by them.

[1:29:05] I feel like, I think it's because I'm a non-creative, but I'm not like, when I'm enjoying like a movie or something, I'm not like, my brain doesn't click over into like how this was made or like what I would do in this situation.

[1:29:20] But I will say I was quite surprised by the twist.

[1:29:25] I was watching, I was in the theater watching a midnight screening on opening night of Lord of the Rings, The Two Towers.

[1:29:32] And man, I'm like halfway through my popcorn and I'm like, man, this, the movie feels like it's wrapping up, but we still got Shelob to go, right?

[1:29:41] And then those credits roll and I'm like, what?

[1:29:45] Where's Shelob?

[1:29:48] And then I like stand up and I started looking around like we've been duped.

[1:29:52] so what that was a twist that totally got me you know when i saw the fellowship of the rings in the

[1:29:59] theater with my family uh walking out my mother was like i can't believe that whole movie and

[1:30:04] they never even got where they were going i was like this is the first part of a of the book there

[1:30:11] are sequels and she says they're just trying to get your money that happened to me with the with

[1:30:15] the fifth harry potter movie i had only seen the first harry potter movie and then i went to see

[1:30:19] the fifth one and i was like oh boy this is gonna be a big showdown with voldemort and then they

[1:30:23] just kind of leave and i was like oh yeah there's more stuff that happens after this after seeing

[1:30:28] the princess bride my mother who is delightful said that couldn't happen there's no way fred

[1:30:35] savage would sit through that story uh my movie that really surprised me it's a pretty obviously

[1:30:41] it surprised a lot of people uh i knew there was a twist and i actually saw it when it first opened

[1:30:45] the sixth sense uh but for some reason it was the weirdest reason that i was distracted because

[1:30:51] i just saw in the opening credits that donnie walberg was in the movie and somehow did not

[1:30:59] put together that the like intruder or whatever at the beginning of the movie was donnie walberg

[1:31:04] because i guess it didn't look like him and so the whole movie i'm using that kind of like movie

[1:31:09] logic which is the thing that usually gives away what the ending is gonna be and i'm so distracted

[1:31:15] It's going to be like, ah, it's getting pretty late, but shit's going to get crazy when Donnie

[1:31:18] Wahlberg shows up.

[1:31:19] Yeah.

[1:31:21] Yeah.

[1:31:22] Donnie Wahlberg's the she-lob of that movie.

[1:31:24] Exactly.

[1:31:25] Shit's going to get crazy when Donnie Wahlberg shows up.

[1:31:29] I mean, that's a good rule for life, too, for movies and for life.

[1:31:32] It's true.

[1:31:33] Yeah.

[1:31:33] Okay.

[1:31:34] Well, the second and final letter is from Mitchell, last name withheld.

[1:31:39] Mitchell writes, you guys often play up how painful it is to watch these movies.

[1:31:45] and i get that you're doing a bit but do you ever sincerely regret making this a bad movie podcast

[1:31:51] if you just made a good movie podcast instead you could have spent all this time watching good

[1:31:57] movies sincerely mitchell last night sincerely the voice in my head all the time yeah uh yeah

[1:32:06] send that send that fucking message back in time dude tenant that shit back to me

[1:32:10] i was thinking about it i was i i obviously it's more pleasurable to uh watch a good movie but in

[1:32:20] terms of like the conversations we've had afterwards like i i wouldn't change anything

[1:32:26] personally i i i watch a lot of bad movies on my own recognizance too so maybe i'm just a glutton

[1:32:33] for it but this conversation is very similar to the one we're gonna have as we're lying in our

[1:32:40] death beds stuck in the same room with three old turds well because because we all we all

[1:32:45] as old men recording this show uh dan will often send us texts and be like hey i had this italian

[1:32:53] exploitation film on while i was working and check out this crazy scene and i'm like dan you're on

[1:32:58] your own time just like watch something that's gonna be good what yeah i think i think there

[1:33:03] is a i enjoy watching good movies more but i kind of enjoy talking about bad movies more

[1:33:08] yeah

[1:33:09] well

[1:33:11] Arnie do you have any podcast based regrets

[1:33:14] you know Mitchell thanks for asking

[1:33:16] I would say am I

[1:33:18] someone that also occasionally

[1:33:20] regrets the premise of my podcast

[1:33:21] sure

[1:33:22] yeah I mean

[1:33:25] do you ever wish that you were playing a crazy

[1:33:28] character do you

[1:33:29] except for albatrosses

[1:33:31] yeah yeah that's true

[1:33:33] eventually albatrosses become dirt I guess

[1:33:35] but everything else turns

[1:33:37] into an albatross when it decays arnie in your show hello from the magic tavern uh or what do

[1:33:44] you have more albatross uh decomposition bits well i was gonna say that inside every bear there are

[1:33:49] two albatrosses yeah you can continue being the stealth only pro on the program arnie so on your

[1:33:56] show hello from the magic tavern uh you are the only one who plays basically yourself do you ever

[1:34:02] regret that and wish that you were playing like a wackier character like uh i don't know like a

[1:34:08] like a latke or something uh you mean luck of the character from taxi not the delicious food

[1:34:15] they're similar though right yeah i mean because andy kaufman was also made out of fried potatoes

[1:34:20] yeah yeah you know when it started i sort of regretted playing the straight man on the

[1:34:25] podcast because it seemed like everyone else got to have so much more fun uh as the show goes on

[1:34:31] though the fact that like uh we try to stay true like everything people say is canon we sort of

[1:34:36] try to remember it you know my character has actually become kind of a weirdo anyway like

[1:34:42] all the weird things that people have just said about me um yeah the thing i do though sometimes

[1:34:48] regret just playing my self like a fictional version of myself i'm always sort of like

[1:34:53] someday this is gonna i'm gonna really uh look back and regret this but what are you gonna do

[1:34:59] yeah i mean also you your your costume from live shows is pretty easy that is true when matt young

[1:35:05] who plays a wizard like is just sweating through a giant beard and and thing and i have to literally

[1:35:11] i just i do look i do have a costume i do have one particular polo shirt that i have to change

[1:35:16] into before every show uh but yeah i'm glad that i don't have to put on anything more than that

[1:35:21] i remember the one time i did uh i was a guest on your live show and i decided to wear

[1:35:26] a inflatable, uh, beholder costume. And I didn't realize that when I turned the fan off, because I

[1:35:33] thought the fan would get in the way of the mic, that the suit would deflate and that under the

[1:35:38] hot lights, I would just be like a sweaty ball sack of a man. Uh, yeah, that was, uh, that was

[1:35:44] a moment when I'm like, I'm kind of glad the flop house doesn't require me to wear costumes on

[1:35:47] stage. That was so delightful. You were so great in that live show. And I could not believe it

[1:35:51] when you showed up with that costume because it was so good also i know your your parents were in

[1:35:58] the audience for that show correct that was the first time my parents had come to any of my

[1:36:02] performances and uh there was a point where somebody made me roll around on stage in this

[1:36:08] costume on a fox face on a taxidermied fox face it was pretty great and then uh afterwards we ran

[1:36:15] out to like you know meet the uh the people who'd come out to see the show and i'm like oh i can't

[1:36:20] wait to see my parents my parents had already left they were in the car they could not face me

[1:36:27] oh dear well um we have another segment dan there's one final segment and that's one where

[1:36:35] we recommend films uh that we've seen recently that we've enjoyed and uh i would like to

[1:36:41] recommend a little movie called psycho gore man uh which uh stars a an up-and-coming uh young

[1:36:51] actor named stewart wellington as tube man um stewart's freaking out uh no and this is a very

[1:36:59] funny uh gory uh movie as you might expect from the title uh it's basically like what if uh these

[1:37:09] kids have a pet uh sort of cosmic evil sadist he's sort of like a space pinhead almost i don't

[1:37:18] know how you describe him he's just like you know like an evil conqueror type but with a tragic

[1:37:24] backstory and they can control him they've got and they are just sort of uh you know brat kids

[1:37:32] uh everyone in the movie is sort of like self-centered yeah they're little sociopath kids

[1:37:38] yeah so um it's just funny like it's you know someone who shouldn't have all that power having

[1:37:45] control over this evil creature that has all this power and um it's a very wacky situation but it's

[1:37:51] also weirdly played pretty straight even though it's so silly uh it strikes like a pretty good

[1:37:57] tone like i mean you could see like a troma version of this right that would go way like

[1:38:04] campy and over the top and this somehow has like the most bullshit weird comic premise

[1:38:11] but takes it somewhat seriously uh so i really enjoyed it and uh watch out for that tube man

[1:38:17] he's going places straight into a bear

[1:38:21] uh anyone else stewart would you like to go yeah i uh i'll recommend something that's on

[1:38:31] amazon prime uh well before that obviously go see uh go watch psycho gore man it's great and it does

[1:38:38] have me playing doing the voice of tube man uh i'd also like to recommend a movie called one night in

[1:38:44] miami uh it is a movie directed by it's the directorial debut i think of regina king um and

[1:38:51] it is a fictional story of the very real friendship uh between muhammad ali malcolm x sam cook and jim

[1:38:59] brown and it depicts uh one night of them basically just hanging out in uh miami after a big fight

[1:39:07] and it is adapted from a stage play and it kind of feels like that but it's it's just it does a

[1:39:16] really amazing job of presenting for like larger than life uh men in a moment of like a fairly in

[1:39:25] some ways low stakes moment in uh their lives of them just spending time with each other and it

[1:39:31] presents them as like i don't know like fully formed three-dimensional men with uh vulnerabilities

[1:39:39] um but also strong passions and i thought it was really great and the performances are incredible

[1:39:46] and specifically uh leslie odom jr re-record who plays sam cook in the movie he he recorded

[1:39:54] a bunch of sam cook songs with him doing the vocals and they play a bunch of them in the movie

[1:39:59] and it's they're incredible so check it out uh i would like to recommend a documentary movie that's

[1:40:07] a movie about a real thing that actually happened featuring real footage of the thing as it happened

[1:40:11] and this is a movie from 1968 that was released in blu-ray last year and it's called the queen

[1:40:17] It's a documentary about the 1967 Miss All-America Camp Beauty Contest and follows the emcee of the competition and also a number of the different competitors as they prepare for it and then acts in some ways just as like you are there in this moment experiencing the 1967 Miss All-America Camp Beauty Contest,

[1:40:38] a early drag contest at a time when there was next to no representation of that kind of lifestyle or

[1:40:49] interest in mainstream media. And it was really interesting to me to see people living in that

[1:40:57] time and without a lot of what we take for granted nowadays in terms of just even awareness of

[1:41:03] different types of people. And there's a bunch of interesting characters in it. I mean, they're real

[1:41:08] people you know i mean by characters uh and it's just something that um helped me to i don't know

[1:41:15] understand certain aspects of the draw of drag that i didn't fully understand before and so i

[1:41:22] thought it was really good it's called the queen and it's on blu-ray uh i unfortunately haven't

[1:41:28] had a i've been a little too busy to watch that many movies but i will recommend the first 15

[1:41:33] minutes of the january man uh don't watch any more than the first 15 minutes because it's not

[1:41:39] it won't get any better but the first 15 minutes are pretty entertaining and crazy and rod steiger

[1:41:45] and danny aiello have a scene where they really both go really go at it and and at some point you

[1:41:51] have to remind yourself this is a comedy but these guys are just screaming at each other

[1:41:55] did we talk to talk about that john patrick shanley wrote the january man when we did our

[1:42:02] wild mountain time episode i don't think it came up when we did wild mountain time very strange

[1:42:06] uh okay well the first 15 minutes that's you know that's a great recommendation for

[1:42:14] our listeners who maybe have a more packed schedule than uh the other ones you know

[1:42:18] and again you're you're saying not to watch it in 15 minute bites but just to watch the

[1:42:23] first 15 minutes and then turn it right off exactly oh yeah okay yep put the tape back

[1:42:29] in the box drive immediately to your logo blockbuster and slip it in the return slot i

[1:42:34] suppose take a moment to look at the poster of the january man because the thing which is the whole

[1:42:39] reason i ever even bothered to watch it because the poster was somehow burned in my mind from

[1:42:43] childhood and it was january and i was like i guess i'll watch this movie finally but it is

[1:42:49] can you describe that poster for me arnie it's kevin klein right kevin klein he's got kind of

[1:42:54] floppy hair he's standing in a doorway holding uh he's got kind of like a a long like a longer

[1:43:01] trench coat he's holding a coat yeah he's holding up a badge i believe uh uh mary stewart yeah she

[1:43:10] is standing behind or wait mary elizabeth no mary elizabeth master antonio yeah mary elizabeth

[1:43:14] master antonio i got the the the three named marys of of the 80s uh no but yeah you're right

[1:43:22] She's kind of just peeking around.

[1:43:24] He's like, he's basically like talking to someone in the doorway.

[1:43:26] It's not even that, there's not even that much.

[1:43:30] It just works.

[1:43:30] It asks more questions than it answers.

[1:43:33] I mean, you should mention, did you mention that the door has been forced down?

[1:43:38] The door is no longer connected to the doorway.

[1:43:40] I'm looking at it now and is lying on the floor at Kevin Kline's feet,

[1:43:43] almost as if through the sheer force of the zaniness of the film,

[1:43:46] he has knocked the door down.

[1:43:48] It's also worth mentioning that nothing even vaguely resembling this happens at any point in the movie.

[1:43:53] It's not like a French door slamming comedy, right?

[1:43:59] I would like to ask you about the tone of the January man, because like I is it comedic?

[1:44:06] Because I remember as a kid, I was kind of interested in seeing it because I liked Kevin Kline, you know, and like this is around the time maybe that I would have been like, oh, he's so funny in A Fish Called Wine.

[1:44:18] wanda and you know a few other things and you know it looked wacky but then i think i tried

[1:44:25] to watch it and it was a pretty straight cop film like what what is the tone that's the problem i

[1:44:31] mean i think uh from what i can tell the main reason it probably flopped at the time besides

[1:44:36] just being bad was that the tone was so weird i think i mean being uh uh shanley like he he was

[1:44:44] trying something it's just like uh joe versus volcano also is tonally a little strange uh but

[1:44:51] it is it's trying and it it hit theaters in march too and people are like why would i watch

[1:44:56] january man in exactly yeah i mean reading reading the first line of roger ebert's contemporary

[1:45:02] review the january man is worth study as a film that fails to find its tone so i think that's

[1:45:07] that's the issue it's so i mean the parts that are serious is it's this is a movie about a serial

[1:45:12] killer that's killing women and uh but it's also like a comedy and every time you see

[1:45:21] danny aiello and rod steiger like being like there's a you didn't see that dead woman and

[1:45:28] tell her parents and then it's like and then it's like let's go look at a rumpled uh let's go look

[1:45:34] at a rumpled detective try to figure this out and and sort of fall in love with a woman that's too

[1:45:38] young for him okay it's available on prime if you have amazon prime you can watch it for free

[1:45:44] yeah yeah if you've already watched virtuosity and johnny mnemonic which i watched both of those

[1:45:51] last year along with lawnmower man i went on a real kick of like dumb yeah dumb you were you

[1:45:57] were really scared of the internet for a little bit yeah okay well anyways arnie thank you so

[1:46:04] much uh for being here is there anything you want to plug here at the end uh sure check out my

[1:46:09] podcast hello from the magic tavern uh a totally improvised a chat show in a fantasy world and

[1:46:16] it's great it's great oh thank you and if you're looking for games to play with your friends either

[1:46:23] in person someday or via zoom uh or something like that uh the jackbox party packs uh i think

[1:46:30] three is a really good collection they're all good three is a good collection and the most

[1:46:35] recent one seven i think is one of the better ones we've done nice they're very they're very

[1:46:40] fun i yeah i i have come to like games more uh over the years uh knowing uh stewart and our mutual

[1:46:47] friend uh john but my favorite type of game still remains the sort of social party game and these

[1:46:54] are some of the most fun funniest ones you can do i think yeah your favorite one's called leisure

[1:46:59] suit larry right in the land of the lounge lizards guys guys i know this is kind of off

[1:47:04] off topic or not but i will say that uh amazon prime does uh inform me that people who watched

[1:47:09] january man also watched wagons east starring john candy and richard lewis so if you liked

[1:47:14] wagons east maybe you'll like january man that sounds about right well on that note uh thanks

[1:47:20] to our network maximum fun go to maximum fun.org for a lot of other great shows uh tweet about our

[1:47:26] show review it let people know all the stuff that we always ask for thank you for doing it all lo

[1:47:33] these many years for us helping us grow an audience but uh until next time i've been dan mccoy i'm

[1:47:40] stewart wellington i'm elliot calen and i'm arnie knee camp reminding you that teenage rattlesnakes

[1:47:45] are the most dangerous kind oh no

[1:47:49] so elliot please uh can you just do a whole bunch of bullshit

[1:48:05] uh scatting before so i can't introduce him already way ahead of you way ahead of you

[1:48:10] maximumfun.org comedy and culture artist owned audience supported

Ep. #334 - The New Mutants, with Arnie Niekamp

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