FH Mini #23 - Flop Etiquette

[0:00] is that doc hollywood are you talking about doc hollywood yeah i'm talking about doc i'm

[0:04] talking about for love or money wait are you talking about the plot of the tv show

[0:09] i don't know i thought that was about uh about sean cassidy the x-man member who can

[0:18] scream real loud if only elliot if only no it's a show about a uh criminal who gets out of jail

[0:26] and he goes to a small town in pennsylvania where he is at a bar and the new sheriff who just arrived

[0:33] in town gets killed so he becomes the new sheriff and this is set in modern times and the main uh

[0:40] the main criminal mastermind is a former amish guy a former amish guy yeah he's he's no longer

[0:47] in the and he's no longer an amish person but he's still like he's still like badass like imagine

[0:52] like the most badass Amish guy.

[0:54] Yeah, sure, sure.

[0:55] Did you guys ever see

[0:56] that documentary Devil's Candy,

[0:58] which is about Rumspringa

[1:00] and the Amish people?

[1:01] I've heard of it,

[1:03] but I haven't seen it.

[1:04] I used to work at a video store

[1:05] and it had maybe the best cover

[1:08] to grab you in a video store ever,

[1:10] which was an Amish girl

[1:11] on the back of a carriage

[1:12] smoking crack.

[1:13] Oh, that's pretty good.

[1:15] Because it's like they go super hard

[1:17] in Rumspringa

[1:18] and then they do a bunch of drugs

[1:20] and have sex.

[1:21] And they were there for it.

[1:23] But there's a whole ex-Amish criminal contingent who sells them the drugs.

[1:27] Like in this TV show Banshee that I keep talking about.

[1:31] Like in Banshee.

[1:32] Hey, guys, let's start this episode.

[1:35] Star this episode?

[1:36] Are you referring to Anthony Star, the star of Banshee, the TV show?

[1:39] That's exactly what I'm referring to.

[1:42] Hey, everybody.

[1:47] Welcome to the Flophouse Mini.

[1:48] That's the off-week episodes of The Flophouse, where we're not stuck talking about some dumb movie that we watched, but instead can talk about whatever we want.

[1:57] Hi, my name's Elliot Kalin. Who's with me tonight?

[1:59] Me, Dan McCoy, I guess.

[2:01] Hey, and it's me, Stuart, number one podcast Banshee fan, apparently.

[2:06] Yeah, the only one of us who knows the plot and stars of Banshee.

[2:09] And we're joined today by a very special guest.

[2:11] We're joined by Joel Church Cooper. Yes, you know him.

[2:14] He's the creator of the IFC series Brockmire.

[2:16] He's been a writer for Hulu's Future Man.

[2:18] Thank you for being with us today, Joel.

[2:20] Guys, it's a real pleasure.

[2:21] You know, first time, long time.

[2:23] And, you know, I just, I love being a part of the world.

[2:27] I love making this parasocial relationship into a social relationship.

[2:30] Yeah, it's been one-sided for too long.

[2:34] Now, by first time, long time, you mean first time podcast guest, long time Banshee fan.

[2:38] We were talking about Banshee before the show or during the show if Jordan leaves that stuff in.

[2:43] We'll see.

[2:45] Maybe she'll just keep that in her own special vault to listen to whenever she wants to.

[2:49] Yep.

[2:49] Hearing Stuart talk about different elements of the TV show Banshee.

[2:53] Like, oh, I feel like the third season kind of goes off the rails, but we'll talk about that later.

[2:59] A file folder on her desktop labeled Stuart Re-Banshee.

[3:04] Just dip in whenever she needs some Stu Banshee takes.

[3:09] Now, every now and then, she's just feeling the urge.

[3:13] She just can't quit cold turkey.

[3:15] She needs to ease off the Stu Banshee takes.

[3:17] Now, Joel is here today for a very important reason.

[3:20] Joel is a successful Hollywood television person, and he has worked with several famous people who have done, let's say, less than – they've been in projects that are less than the best.

[3:33] And now Dan and Stu and I, we've long been just the class clowns in the back just throwing spitballs at strangers.

[3:41] That's not what I thought you were going to say.

[3:43] They were going to be like, so Dan, Stu, and I, we've long been at the peak of Hollywood.

[3:48] We have never been involved in a project we're embarrassed by.

[3:52] So we would not know anything about that.

[3:54] No, I like suggesting that we're like a Statler, Waldorf, and Gonzo trio.

[3:59] Gonzo is in the show, Stu.

[4:02] He's not a side heckler.

[4:04] Gonzo is one of the stars of the show.

[4:06] He's the Gonzo the Great.

[4:07] He's the in-house artiste.

[4:09] Yeah, I was giving you the credit of being the Gonzo while Dan and I are Statler and Waldorf.

[4:14] Okay, that makes sense.

[4:16] That makes sense because Gonzo, also Jewish.

[4:18] Is that canon?

[4:20] I mean, we all knew that the signs were there, the stereotypical Jewish love of being shot out of a cannon and having sex with chickens.

[4:28] I mean, you have a just shy of sexual relationship with chicken, I think.

[4:34] It's entirely, I mean, it's an oral fixation with chickens.

[4:39] because I eat them a lot.

[4:40] I don't know if I'd call it sexual,

[4:41] though it is a sensual pleasure.

[4:43] But anyway, the reason that we have Joel here today

[4:45] is not to talk about my possible Freudian relationship with,

[4:48] it's not like they're living chickens, Dan.

[4:50] They're all dead fried chickens cut up in pieces, you know,

[4:53] which makes it sound worse now that I think about it.

[4:55] Now, Joel's worked with some very famous people

[4:58] and I was wondering, I wanted to talk to him about

[5:02] when you're working with someone who is very famous,

[5:04] who has been in like a really famous bad movie

[5:07] or bad TV show? How do you handle it? How do you not just want to talk to them about that

[5:12] all the time? Because the closest I could come to it on The Daily Show was talking to Daily

[5:16] Show correspondents, and they didn't care about the bad stuff they made. I think I've told the

[5:19] story before about going out to a meal with John Oliver, and he was a group of us, and him saying,

[5:24] I'll pick up the check. And we said, no, no, no. And he goes, no, I got paid for The Love Guru

[5:27] today. And we go, okay. And he said, but by my paying this, you are all complicit in the making

[5:31] of The Love Guru. And we went, no. And that's the closest I've ever been. So Joel, what do you do?

[5:35] how do you handle that situation pop quiz hot shot um well you know the whole thing i think with

[5:42] dealing with actors a little bit and sort of about their past and stuff is like you can't you kind of

[5:47] can't go too hot or too cold you know you can't go too fanboy and you can't go like that was a real

[5:53] stinker you know um because either way they get they get cringy like they don't you know there's

[5:59] certain things they want to talk about about their past or others but mainly when i'm working with an

[6:04] actor i just sort of let them if they want to talk about their career you know they can talk

[6:08] about their career i'm not going to press too much meanwhile i'm of course dying inside to talk to

[6:12] them about either the thing that they were in that i loved or the thing that they were in that i

[6:17] thought was the worst piece of shit ever i want the juice behind it but um uh you know you can't

[6:21] really you got to let them come to you a little bit i think it was my relationship to like i work

[6:27] with hank azaria for you know almost a decade on different variations of rock meyer and it was two

[6:32] years in before i revealed that i was the biggest simpsons fan of all time because i just didn't

[6:38] want i almost i also kind of didn't want him to know he had that power over me you know like i

[6:43] just i just wanted to be like oh i'm just a guy who just oh i know you from things and then did

[6:48] you pretend you didn't know the simpsons was he like yeah well when i did the simpsons you're like

[6:51] not familiar what's that i'm like oh is this some cartoon that you guest starred on what is this

[6:57] is this a cartoon that you're just a big fan of because you're like obsessed with these characters

[7:03] like you're doing voices all the time of them like i get it was it difficult for you uh to wear a

[7:10] shirt that didn't have the bart man on it uh when you went to work every day did you do that really

[7:15] fuck up your your specifically the bart man i wore the knockoff superhero character you know

[7:21] where he was a little off color and didn't have the right number of ridges so i could fool him

[7:24] into thinking that i wasn't a huge fan um yeah the bootleg barts are not necessarily true fan

[7:32] apparel no you just you were just close you just had to be closed whatever clothes you could buy

[7:36] on the street at that moment that was your explanation yeah it's like oh it was it was uh

[7:40] it was a prank i i was thrown on the street without a shirt and i had to buy whatever was

[7:44] available from a street vendor yeah yeah uh but this but this kind of is is a good sort of

[7:48] introduction to this conversation because um you know one thing about working with actors and

[7:53] they've been in things that you've that you've seen and like a lot of times it's the most

[7:58] important thing to you you know that their participation in this when you think of them

[8:03] you think of them in this project right like hank and the simpsons but for them it's just a gig you

[8:08] know on most movie actors even if they're the star of the movie they work 30 days on that television

[8:12] show it's a little something different but television show they filmed it that day usually

[8:16] very few actors go back and watch it again now there's an entire industry of them watching

[8:21] re-watching the show on podcast form that's a new thing most times you know actors don't go back and

[8:27] so you know once i did reel to hank that i was a simpsons fan sometimes you know we would do

[8:33] something and i would quote the simpsons sometimes his own dialogue back to them and he'd be like

[8:37] what is that what's that from and i would be like oh it's you know it's from one of the classic

[8:43] season three to nine episodes i know by heart and you know i just thought that since it was you you

[8:49] would know and he was like you know man that was like a half an hour in the 90s and i said

[8:53] i mean i've this is on a much different level obviously but i'll talk to say a listener at the

[9:01] bar and i'll have a couple of drinks in me and they'll have a couple of drinks in them you know

[9:06] this is a different time pre-covid and now people stop drinking after covid yeah they'll refer or

[9:11] they don't do it at a bar with me it's the main thing uh but the the somebody will reference a

[9:18] bit from an episode and i'm like i gotta tell you at least the first 10 years of this show i was

[9:23] pretty drunk every episode so did hank azaria use that excuse every time yeah he you know he's

[9:30] famously sober so no but um uh he just you know like especially recording jobs like you know he

[9:38] and he's a professional so he'd bang it out three or four times takes and just move on

[9:42] and like there's there's like famous things like from the poochie episode um the whole thing about

[9:47] fireworks you know the fireworks factory gag of like you know like they keep promising they're

[9:51] getting to the fireworks factory and then they never do and millhouse goes crazy and he goes

[9:55] like when are they gonna get to the fireworks factory you know and so i put that in flop house

[10:00] terms that's like in the movie uh glass where they keep saying they're gonna go to the tallest

[10:05] building in what pittsburgh and it never happens philadelphia they're the same city anyway

[10:10] that's you know that's m night Shyamalan's fireworks factory right so in writing terms

[10:15] and in show terms sometimes I'll be like and I've probably said I know I've said it to Hank and I'll

[10:20] be like it's just like it's like it's the fireworks factory it's the thing we're promising if we don't

[10:23] do this and I had Hank's like I don't know what you're talking about and I was like there's an

[10:28] episode of The Simpsons called Poochie you know man you're on that thing again it's the Poochie

[10:34] episode is the most famous one because it's about the business that we work in and it's very inside

[10:38] baseball but done very well people love it because there are scenes in professional writers rooms at

[10:44] tv shows no it is it is true though that like you know for someone like me watching the simpsons like

[10:52] that's the most important thing to me because like that's the show i grew up with and watched

[10:57] over and over again for them it's just another day of their life i remember when like you know

[11:01] elliot and i were working together when john was on the daily show and like john would come in at

[11:07] the end of the week and stare up at the cards on the board because he'd be like okay what did we

[11:12] do this week i don't remember like it flies out of your brain right right away there would be

[11:16] friday mornings where the interns or the pas i don't remember whose job it was to redo the the

[11:22] card bulletin board that that laid out what we did on the show would change them too early in

[11:26] the morning and we'd assemble for the meeting at the end of the week and we'd look at the board

[11:29] and it would be all new blank cards and we would not remember what happened that week

[11:32] i think it was a good week or it reminds me of i think george rr martin has like a couple

[11:39] readers that he asks questions of so he'll be like wait what's this character's hair color again

[11:45] i i better call suzy like suzy's read all these books and like for him it's just like a thing he

[11:49] made up you know so it doesn't it i guess doesn't have the same level of i hate to break it to you

[11:54] too oh stewart i don't i don't think he reads the books himself i think he just kind of makes

[12:00] them up and writes them and then forgets about them but oh he's having an existential crisis

[12:04] Right in front of us

[12:06] I mean to be fair Stuart

[12:07] It is

[12:07] It makes him up

[12:08] It's not

[12:10] They're not real chronicles

[12:11] Of actual history

[12:12] You know

[12:13] And he is a special case

[12:16] Where he does forget

[12:16] Like he does have

[12:17] Chronic amnesia

[12:18] Like Dana Carvey

[12:19] And Blank Slate

[12:20] So that's why it takes so long

[12:21] For the books to come out

[12:21] Because every morning

[12:22] He has to be reminded

[12:23] That he writes these books

[12:24] Is it Blank Slate?

[12:26] I don't want any

[12:26] Clean Slate fans

[12:28] Being like

[12:28] Blank Slate

[12:29] Sorry

[12:30] Not Blank Slate

[12:31] Clearly Elliot was thinking

[12:32] Of Blank Check

[12:33] The book

[12:34] the book the movie about a kid who gets a blank dan is clearly thinking of of blank man the

[12:40] novelized adaptation when he said the book anyway so so so but but going back to the bad movies of

[12:48] it all you know so like you know i i i just you know i come at this as a fan with everything you

[12:53] start off as a fan right and then you want to do it and then you try to do it and usually end up

[12:57] copying the things that you like and then you get beyond it and then if you're lucky enough and you

[13:01] you know, you start working and you start working with people that you respect. And especially if

[13:06] you get in a position of power, you know, like if you run your own show, like I did on my show,

[13:10] Brockmire, you can cast people that you've seen in things. And that's a great thing. And so,

[13:15] you know, we cast Amanda Peet in the first season. So lucky to have her. She's such a great actress.

[13:21] It was a part that was really, I sort of envisioned her in mind for. And so to do it is great.

[13:28] And, you know, she's on set, and this is my first, I've been probably, you know, TV writer for five years, but this is the first time as showrunner.

[13:35] I'm on set shooting the show.

[13:36] It's great.

[13:36] And she starts talking about Aaron Sorkin and working on Studio 60, and it hadn't hit me yet that, like, Studio 60, my comedy obsession from, you know, whenever that was out, you know, that I watched obsessively multiple times, episodes laughing at the work.

[13:53] Because Studio 60 is my kind of sort of bad movie, bad TV show.

[13:58] My personal favorite is really talented people who've gotten to a point in their career where no one says no.

[14:05] And everyone's just smiling and going, more, do it, yes.

[14:11] And especially writers, too, because I feel like I'm a similar kind of writer and I can sometimes come at things, right?

[14:19] No subtle glancings.

[14:20] I try to really write the line that says it or whatever, which can go wrong a lot of times, and sometimes you're too purple.

[14:27] So I think my own fear of becoming that, I gravitate towards your life itself, your Studio 60s.

[14:34] We can all think of that example of the personal project that goes wrong.

[14:40] The personal project where the artist is like, this is my statement that I'm making to the world about what is most important to me.

[14:48] And then it comes out and people are like, this book of Henry should have stayed closed.

[14:56] Book of Henry is a great one.

[14:59] It's, you know, it's the newest one.

[15:01] And so, you know, with Sorkin, he clearly has this obsession with SNL and with comedy.

[15:07] And despite, like, a real misunderstanding of comedians and how comedy works, it gets made, what it's like to be around them, what comedians talk about.

[15:18] Like, that show had no bits in it.

[15:20] No one did any bits?

[15:21] No.

[15:22] It was just people in hallways seriously talking about comedy as if, like, it's life or death.

[15:27] Where literally there's a scene halfway through where Nate Corddry is showing his parents around.

[15:33] And his mom goes, like, so this is where you do the skits?

[15:35] And he goes, they're sketches, mom.

[15:37] Sketches.

[15:38] And he storms away angrily because, in Zorkin's mind, that's what comedians do.

[15:44] They take it so seriously.

[15:46] I mean, to be fair, I hate I hate the word skit over sketch, but I would just internally roll my eyes angrily.

[15:54] Well, but I feel like in a real in a real comedy place, he would have said, yeah, yeah, they're skits, mom.

[16:00] And then would have said to his his writers, yeah, my mom called it a skit.

[16:04] And they'd be like, they'd be like, oh, well, maybe she meant skitch.

[16:07] And they would just be called skitches from then on at the office.

[16:09] And three generations of employees later, they would still be calling them skitches and no one would remember where it came from.

[16:15] Yeah, and then the Christmas gift would be like an off-brand Disney, like, Lilo and Stitch, but it would be called Skitch.

[16:22] And people would be like, this is amazing, and they'd be like, I don't understand anymore where this came from.

[16:27] It's like when a meme gets turned into something so completely different, and you're like, yeah, yeah, well, that's based on a Japanese cartoon about a dog that pees on a cat.

[16:36] And you're like, really? Then why? I don't understand.

[16:38] You'll see a meme, and you'll be like, what the fuck is this?

[16:41] And then the first comment is, oh, my God, I can't, like, this is so me or something.

[16:46] And you're like, I don't, what, how?

[16:47] How did this connect with you so deeply?

[16:49] And then you spend the next four hours going through rabbit holes trying to figure it all out.

[16:54] And by the end, you find out that George R. R. Martin just makes it up.

[16:56] What the fuck?

[16:57] Stuart, this isn't how I wanted you to find out.

[16:59] I'm sorry.

[17:00] It just came out of me.

[17:00] I mean, I feel like I went through that, though.

[17:03] The first time I saw the butterfly meme, I'm like, okay, I need to see six more of these.

[17:07] And then I will kind of get the general idea of what this thing is.

[17:10] Which one is that one?

[17:11] Dan, describe the meme to me in words.

[17:13] This is the best way to communicate them.

[17:14] There's a bookish-looking man.

[17:17] He is...

[17:18] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[17:19] Okay, I know the one you're talking about.

[17:20] Yeah, and he has a book.

[17:21] I think he actually has a book.

[17:22] He is a nerdy-looking Japanese teen boy,

[17:25] but, like, the handsome Japanese teen boy nerd,

[17:28] and a butterfly is alighting in front of him.

[17:31] Yeah.

[17:31] Yeah, you label everything in there.

[17:34] Like, it's a fucking Thomas Nast cartoon.

[17:36] Yeah, everything gets labeled, sure.

[17:39] So my first, like, third day on set, she mentioned Sorkin.

[17:43] I immediately have the not-so-brilliant idea, oh, I will talk to her about Studio 60 and see if she can give me some, like, juicy back, you know, what's it like, whatever.

[17:54] And maybe she'll, like, you know, maybe she'll get, like, the, maybe she's, like, one of the people.

[18:01] Because it was a, I wasn't alone in my Studio 60 obsession.

[18:05] It was a very comedy writer, improviser, you know, thing that everyone, you know, I watched every episode.

[18:10] It was a show behind the scenes of SNL that in the end was a three part.

[18:15] They ended their one season with a three part episode about a kidnap and rescue where Nate Corddry's cast member's brother was kidnapped by the Taliban and the NBC executive had to buy it.

[18:26] And they watched the rescue from the director's booth of the studio because Sorkin at that point just had lost the plot and was like, I don't know.

[18:34] A West Wing idea that I forgot about?

[18:36] It's a – like you were saying, it is set in a world where comedy is treated as seriously as the things that on the West Wing were in the newsroom.

[18:45] And, like, the series opens with, like, a real network style.

[18:50] The head writer, like, walks off.

[18:52] He hates how bad this show has gotten.

[18:54] And then they hire a new head writer, and there's a press conference where the new head writer is introduced to probably 40 reporters in the lobby of this big, like, fancy building.

[19:03] And I just remember, like, when I became head writer of The Daily Show, I don't think they even announced it to anybody.

[19:08] Like, I think the only, like, if you didn't watch the credits, you wouldn't know there was a new head writer, you know.

[19:13] But also.

[19:14] And you didn't watch the credits most episodes, so.

[19:16] You know, you didn't do a giant musical number from the HMS Pinafore as your big opening episode move, so.

[19:23] That was, that, that, I mean, it's also the fact that, like, and it was strange that, like, Mark McKinney was on that show, and from one of the greatest sketch shows of all time.

[19:32] And yet, like, the sketches on it, it was almost like they were like, how do we make these the least funny sketches in the history of the world?

[19:40] You're saying Skitches, right?

[19:42] I meant Skitches, because they're named after Skitch Henderson.

[19:45] I mean, think about Sorkin, too.

[19:47] Like, good Sorkin's a lot of fun.

[19:49] Bad Sorkin is awful.

[19:50] But, like, he can write a joke.

[19:52] He just writes it in the context of, like, these are the characters I've established as the world.

[19:57] He will write a funny line, but then writing about comedy, he seemed to be laboring under the misapprehension that everyone in comedy got into it because they want to make serious points about truth.

[20:11] And the thing is, yeah, comedy can be good at that.

[20:15] People laugh because they recognize the inherent truth in something.

[20:19] But it's not like people get into comedy and are like, yes, yes, I'm going to expose things.

[20:25] that is no no you get to you start telling so jokes about serious things when you realize that

[20:29] the jokes about silly things you've been telling have failed to fill the emptiness inside you

[20:34] that you thought you could fill with the laughter of others and you're like oh i see i'll fill it

[20:38] with people nodding and saying ah yes ah yes and then you do that and that doesn't fill it either

[20:43] that's when you start doing just straight dramas and you're like okay when people cry when they

[20:47] see me on screen that's when it'll fill the hole that doesn't do it either and you realize

[20:52] eventually there's only one thing that can fill that hole and that's a doctor implanting a hole

[20:56] filler which is something they do i thought you were gonna get much darker there's only one thing

[21:01] they can fill that hole and that's the grave digger above your grave when you die uh i mean

[21:06] it would be amazing the monster truck exactly yeah i mean who would that dirt into your grave

[21:10] and you're like shouldn't you have a fucking shovel dude um so wait we've delayed the this uh

[21:15] this story too well i wrote the same one thing grave digger grave digger should have a plow front

[21:20] so it can move that dirt and it does not

[21:22] this is a hobby horse I know been on a lot

[21:24] that gravedigger should have a plow on

[21:26] his front and it doesn't so I apologize

[21:28] anyway Joel you're saying so she brings up

[21:30] Sorkin you're finally going to spring all those

[21:32] sweet Studio 60 questions to her

[21:34] this is during a walk and talk I'm only hoping

[21:35] yes we're just walking in a circle around

[21:38] the set while

[21:40] people look at papers that have nothing written

[21:42] on them

[21:43] that was the thing we used to do

[21:45] in the daily show offices a lot is we just pick up

[21:48] a piece of paper off a desk and glance at it and say

[21:50] this is good stuff and that was our studio 60 bit but okay so you're so you're talking to you're

[21:54] talking so i'm talking to her and i'm really excited to get into this juicy business about

[21:58] the show and like this goes back to the earlier thing about um about the actors not having the

[22:04] same relationship she was not aware that like there was a a group of people who made fun of

[22:10] that show or cared about it still or cared about to make fun of it and she was i would you know in

[22:16] a professional way resistant to the idea that it was bad and that she would be complicit with me

[22:22] shitting on it um and it wasn't the greatest move on my part it was a very early showrunner move of

[22:28] mine and and then immediately i talked to her a little bit and she politely sort of um was like

[22:33] i don't i'm not gonna do that why and then she sort of explained her experience on it and her

[22:37] experience is one of very real and it was one of a working actor of she you know got a big part on

[22:45] a big show and you know it was an ensemble it was the hours were great her best friend sarah paulson

[22:51] they got to hang on you know set together and hang out in each other's dressing rooms she got

[22:56] pregnant on the show they they were really cool about her hours and like and she got to deliver

[23:01] aaron sorkin monologues and you know it didn't work out that great but she's been in worse things

[23:06] and she's been in better things and like why are you bringing it up five years later it was a real

[23:11] Like, I just, they said Eli Wallach was an old writer, and it was kind of funny that, you know, he was talking about 1950s comedy, and everyone gathered around him like he was an old sage, and it was just funny.

[23:24] But don't you think it was crazy that the writers' room was so dimly lit on the show?

[23:29] And there were, like, six writers, and, like, SNL has, like, 30 writers.

[23:33] It's unrealistic.

[23:34] So she wasn't really playing along, and for good reason, which was that, like, that was a good gig for her.

[23:40] But there was one sequence where, because she got pregnant, they didn't really know what to do, and it sort of threw his storyline off.

[23:47] And so he was like, oh, I'll just get her together, Bradley Whitford, and it'll be a phone relationship, and she can just do things over the phone.

[23:53] And so as part of that, Bradley Whitford had this one scene where he was like, I love you, on the phone.

[24:00] There had been no indication of a relation between them.

[24:02] He was like, you know what, I realized I love you, and I'm going to come get you.

[24:05] And then she was like, okay, and it was very aggressive.

[24:08] and in that sorkin way like not the greatest to the female uh characters and their agency and uh

[24:15] and she was like yeah it's because i was pregnant and they wrote around it what's your problem with

[24:20] it and i was like oh yeah that's no you're yeah he was just being a good producer and helping you

[24:25] i'm sorry you know i mean i this is i think this is a great thing to remember because like it's a

[24:31] weird thing for us to say as a bad movie podcast for sure uh go on you know like these things are

[24:38] not like things to get mad about we can all lighten up like i i no i mean particularly in

[24:45] this age of the internet you see so much vitriol like why did this person who i like an actor i

[24:51] like do this thing i feel like i've got this relationship with them that means they won't do

[24:57] this shitty series and it's like yeah but you know a lot of people are just working actors

[25:04] like they're doing things there are all sorts of factors that go into people's personal lives

[25:09] that make decisions and you know what like art sometimes is like sixth on the list

[25:15] yeah and also and actors because they're the most visible part of a thing they often get they get

[25:21] this stuff hung around their neck that's not really their fault that it's bad and that they

[25:26] didn't have them i was thinking a lot about how like um how catwoman is always going to be the

[25:31] hallie berry movie catwoman but like hallie berry didn't write it or direct it or produce it like

[25:36] she's in it i mean but it's not like fair it's not like she was the peach off got a lot of work

[25:40] after no that's true but it's not like she was the it's not like she was the guiding force behind

[25:45] catwoman you know for her it was like hey do you want to be a superhero movie well how much you're

[25:49] going to pay me to be in this superhero movie this much then yes i will be in your superhero

[25:52] movie yeah yeah we're like how uh and it all gets forgotten eventually uh like how uh a lot of people

[25:57] forget that george c scott did a sitcom for one year where he was the president and when it's not

[26:02] something that comes up a lot when you talk about george c scott but i bet there was a time when he

[26:06] was walking around and someone was like oh mr scott i'm such a big fan of yours and he was like

[26:09] oh what about patton the hospital dr strangelove he goes i love that president show that you did

[26:14] tell me all the amazing stories behind it he's like i don't know i did it for a year like i don't

[26:19] i don't remember anybody but he said it like george c scott so it was like i don't know

[26:22] because that's what he sounds like you know uh well i would say like something i try to think

[26:28] of too is like sometimes you can be good and do your job well as an actor and then you just run

[26:34] into the wall that your writer and your director sort of put in front of you right like kirsten

[26:38] dunst and elizabeth town get saddled with manic pixie dream girl right i would argue because she

[26:44] does what Cameron Crowe wants so well yeah she sort of nails an aesthetic that he's looking for

[26:49] and you know it and the movie is not good and and you want to talk about another bad movie of

[26:55] when you get to the point where no one says no and um and is that a bad performance maybe but

[27:01] maybe it's just a good performance of what he wanted it and and you know and so you're as an

[27:06] actor you're so vulnerable you're you're because you're the you're the only thing that people see

[27:12] and you have the least power.

[27:13] The sound guy has more power than you.

[27:15] The camera crew has more power than you.

[27:18] The writer, the director, the editor.

[27:19] But that's because they have electric power,

[27:22] which is, that runs the world.

[27:24] That kind of power, nobody can compete against it.

[27:27] That's why they call him best boy,

[27:28] because he has the most power on set.

[27:30] He's plugging in, he's plugging out.

[27:31] He's the guy who literally stands by the switch

[27:35] that turns on the electricity for the set

[27:37] and goes, uh-uh, stay on my good side.

[27:40] Who's the best boy?

[27:42] you're the best boy don't turn the power off you're the best boy they call him best boy because

[27:46] he's the guy who has to run to best buy if they need something right exactly that's why they named

[27:52] it best buy because there was those best boys running around town going to different hardware

[27:56] stores being like full of best boys yeah do you have a four plugger as as a child he was bitten

[28:01] by pete best and he gained the powers to have almost been in the beatles and became the superhero

[28:05] best boy and uh unfortunately when he grew up people still knew him as best boy so he still

[28:09] went by that even though he's an old man now but this is a good point though like these things are

[28:13] so collaborative that no one should either get like all the blame or even all the credit which

[28:22] i like i don't know i've only i've only ever written on the one show but like there have

[28:30] been times in my life where people assume that i'm a lot smarter than i am because they like

[28:35] The Daily Show so much I'm like oh no no no most of us are dumb you know Dan goes talk to me for a

[28:40] few minutes yeah and and it's like I this is kind of like what I was saying about New Mutants what

[28:45] you're saying now about how like I know Anya Taylor-Joy is a great actor from seeing her in

[28:51] other things so I'm not gonna get too mad at her and New Mutants for like having an accent that's

[28:56] really silly I'm gonna be more like if if anything I'm just gonna be like oh the director should have

[29:01] told her not to do that accent. I'm Jesse Thorne. On the next Bullseye, we've got the one and only

[29:07] Ted Danson. We'll talk about his new show, Mr. Mayor, about cheers and about the secret to

[29:14] success in comedy. I mean, I feel like one of your signature comedic moves at this point

[29:20] in your career is gazing. You do a lot of interesting gazing.

[29:27] I also love this gazing. I love that. And if I'm not, I'm going to start because that's great.

[29:34] That's bullseye. Find it on MaximumFun.org and PR.org and wherever you get podcasts.

[29:40] Welcome back to Fireside Chat on KMAX. With me in studio to take your calls is the dopest duo on the West Coast, Oliver Wong and Morgan Rhodes. Go ahead, caller.

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[30:06] Myself and I'm Morgan Rold and my co-host here, Oliver Wong, talk to influential guests about a canonical album that has changed their lives.

[30:14] Guests like Moby, Open Mic Eagle, talk about albums by Prince, Joni Mitchell and so much more.

[30:20] Yo, what's that show called again?

[30:23] He rocks deep dives into hot records.

[30:25] Every Thursday on Maximum Fun.

[30:27] Another thing I was thinking about about this is like, you know, I used to host bad movie nights at my house.

[30:34] And I've been to cat screenings and, you know, lots of bad movie, you know, midnight shows.

[30:40] And I went with my comedian friends and my writer friends and my improviser friends.

[30:44] And I've never known an actor who was into bad movies in the same way.

[30:51] It's not a, you know, when you go to acting school or acting class and they make you be an animal for 20 minutes or they make you be the personification of regrets.

[31:00] All of these things that are just like ripping your insides open to get you as most vulnerable as you can to get your, you know, whatever guard you have as a natural human being and just destroy it.

[31:11] You then, I don't think, can go and watch someone on screen and be like, they're so stupid.

[31:17] Look at that.

[31:18] That's so dumb.

[31:19] they're not even doing it well i think fundamentally they're cats yeah exactly

[31:25] they were so excited to get that they told their parents they're dumb you know like i they don't

[31:32] have you know you this you saying this has uh brought me to a shocking revelation and i don't

[31:38] know you can all decide whether this is significant or not uh i watch a bad movie or tv show and i am

[31:47] mostly inclined if i'm going to single out anyone to blame to blame the writer and that is my job

[31:54] so what does that mean no i agree it's you know something's the fault i think it's usually

[32:00] especially in tv which is so much of a writer's medium where the writers really control it's the

[32:05] only it's the only artistic uh field where the writers have power and so when there's something

[32:11] bad in tv like you know i've worked on things that didn't turn out great and we were all in the room

[32:17] and we were trying our best and, and, uh, for different reasons. And, you know, when I look

[32:22] back at like, well, what went wrong? Usually it was, we were unable, we maybe went in the wrong

[32:27] area. This wasn't that funny, as funny as we thought it was in the room, or we, it was funny

[32:32] to us, but we didn't translate it to the actors and never made it to the page in that way. Or

[32:36] it was a room bit that never should have made it to the script. You know, there's all kinds of

[32:39] things. And usually when something that I'm a part of in TV isn't successful, it's, it's our fault of

[32:45] the writer's room yeah yeah i i the uh i i've never really thought about this before but the

[32:52] way you described acting school is really like being an actor is being is choosing to be inducted

[32:58] into like a cult where they break you down so that you're just you'll just do anything

[33:02] like you'll do whatever's on the page and it's such it it's so it's so like uh like it's really

[33:08] terrifying to me and there are times in my life where i'm like you know what if i worked at it

[33:12] I think I could be like a so-so actor like I think I could be an okay non-professional community

[33:18] theater actor but the way you described it I don't have the guts for that to just to just enter in

[33:23] and just become like uh you know this uh this person who just like in the marines where they

[33:28] tear you down completely so you'll just take orders that seems so frightening to me actors

[33:32] you got you got what it takes and I don't anyway here's the script you're gonna do a lot of dumb

[33:37] stuff in it so go do it i mean i'll i'll stand up for actors now you know as uh i don't know if you

[33:42] guys know this uh i'm a credited actor i do a voice i'm tube man and psycho horror man we're

[33:48] all aware we're all aware steward what was your so yeah did you you know like pull your you know

[33:53] expose yourself your vulnerabilities of course i did it couldn't you tell it was all on the screen

[33:59] yeah that's true you you did seem to be just a sort of a brain in a tube exactly dan do you

[34:05] understand how vulnerable you are if you're a brain in a tube anybody could just knock you over

[34:09] he doesn't even have a skeletal system he has nothing he's the most vulnerable he could be

[34:14] yeah eat your fucking heart out christian bale don't tell him that dan he'll think it's for a

[34:20] part and he'll do it yeah uh but this is kind of a good segue to another sort of story about uh you

[34:27] know talking to actors about bad things which is that um i worked on uh a gary shandling pilot

[34:34] right before he died and um and as part of that um i got to hang out at gary shandling's house

[34:42] and sort of talk to him for you know we we were in the sort of scripting stage so it wasn't too

[34:48] much it was probably like three meetings totaling like nine hours and um what he really talked to

[34:54] me about the most was his experiences on larry sanders and his experiences on what planet are

[35:01] you from um which is this terrible movie that he made um that he wrote and starred in that mike

[35:06] nichols directed and he was telling me this because you know he hadn't done a show since

[35:09] larry sanders and his friend an agent uh who i knew uh barely but kind of brought me on this

[35:16] project was trying to get him back out there and trying to get him to sort of he was you know he'd

[35:21] really found a kind of zen guru-esque lifestyle in his personal life where he was very satisfied

[35:26] And he was very happy. But his professional life, it was really this thing hanging there of he had such a bad experience of Larry Sanders.

[35:33] You can watch the documentary about it where essentially his manager stole money from him four different ways.

[35:39] And then when he sued them, bugged his phone to listen in on his conversations for the case, which, you know, this was it was Brad Gray, who was a big time Hollywood guy.

[35:50] and um they were best friends for years and it was such a personal betrayal that he just the it was

[35:57] you know 20 years later it was just right on the surface he just couldn't um and and and in talking

[36:02] about working and could he do this project with with me and you know could he play this character

[36:07] he would just talk about it because it was just like i you know basically like can i is this going

[36:12] to hurt me like that hurt me you know like it was still so raw and he also talked about what planet

[36:17] from which he wrote as a sort of his his starring vehicle to break out from tv to film and he worked

[36:23] on the script for a long time and then he hired it was an amazing cast it's like john goodman

[36:28] manette benning greg kaneer ben kingsley it's just a you know all-star cast and what he described is

[36:35] basically and and they're both dead so i can sort of talk about it's also been talked about other

[36:39] places but what he talked about is um mike diggles just didn't like him kind of personally and didn't

[36:45] think he was a good actor and didn't think and didn't like whatever i think they thought it was

[36:51] kind of be kind of a defending your life kind of slightly raised comedic sci-fi premise that

[36:57] actually gets into larger questions and it just wasn't there and i think mike nichols you know

[37:03] maybe a weekend was like oh this isn't good you know what let's knock off at 4 30 and collect our

[37:09] paychecks and go home and um gary shandling was like this is my film you know this is the thing

[37:16] that i've been working on forever and that it's let's stay till midnight and do 100 takes and

[37:21] improvise he was he loved improv and the fact that my nickels would just look at him and go like

[37:26] no it's never gonna get better than this and what i've sort of heard about my nickels is that you

[37:32] know he was very direct and could be withering he could be funny and clever and affable but like if

[37:37] it wasn't he was direct and uh gary shandling was like the most sensitive person you will ever meet

[37:45] in a way where it was like his superpower if you think about larry sanders like what

[37:49] that is so good about it is like the little social interactions the the the sort of toxic

[37:56] masculinity how it you know how it shows itself in a gesture in a way of how ego gets punctured

[38:01] these are really hard concepts to put into a script and he was just a he would pick up anything

[38:07] and whenever you talked to him he was always uh he would always have the conversation with you

[38:12] you were having and then he would also be having the conversation about the conversation you were

[38:16] having so you'd be like okay so you took what i said like this but actually i not didn't mean

[38:20] like that and i could see by what you're doing now and he was always dead on right so here's this

[38:24] this human membrane that is like picking up everything and then you have this comedy legend

[38:29] who is like you don't got it kid and so he would describe like having panic attacks and like not

[38:34] wanting to come out of his trailer and it was not something that was like you could be like yeah but

[38:39] it was dumb right you know it was like what he was yeah but it was just a job yeah yeah but it

[38:44] was like a bad movie but like you know but you did good things now it's a bad thing like so what

[38:48] it was like i spent years of my life on this to to uh be tortured by my hero is how he sort of

[38:55] phrased it and i'm sure mike nichols would have his own version i wasn't in his living room so

[38:59] he didn't tell me that but you know if i look at the mike nichols version would be like did i make

[39:03] that oh yeah i guess i did oh yeah nice guy gary shanley anyway like like the way that you meet

[39:09] your high school bully and he's like hey nice to see you man and it's like you were like i have

[39:13] nightmares about you and he's like yeah i don't know high school am i right so what are you doing

[39:17] these days like they just don't remember it yeah i mean i think i think mike nichols has done what

[39:23] he did 30 movies like you know he did some stinkers and i think he knew the feeling of it and he was

[39:28] just like i'm old this one isn't it let's get through it and yeah he's like he's just shouting

[39:34] he's like we got a wolf on our hands this is a wolf everybody all right let's get this done it's

[39:39] a wolf and you know maybe if they had done the work that gary wanted they could have rescued it

[39:43] or maybe i'm probably leaning to the my google's at all it was a misbegotten premise that was sort

[39:48] of never going to get there and you know going home at 4 30 is always nice but uh but clearly

[39:54] like but shandling like he just it and and he brought it up i think because we're working on

[40:00] something and because it was like i was trying to coax him back into the world of acting and tv

[40:04] and he was he was very happy to be a guru to so many powerful people you know to judd habitow

[40:11] to john favreau where these people would show him everything they were doing so he had this

[40:15] so he still was feeling artistically heard and important and he was so happy in his sort of

[40:21] personal life with the basketball game and he had great friendships and like and there i was asking

[40:26] him to like take the leap again and he was telling me but i got hurt so bad like how do i know you're

[40:33] not gonna hurt me in his own way and the last thing he ever said he died a week later we ended

[40:39] a meeting and he was looking at me sort of critically and he said i'm uncomfortable with

[40:44] your certainty uh with your level of certainty and i said about what he said about everything

[40:50] i just said to my friends it's the anecdote and they were like that is the most accurate thing

[40:57] anyone has ever said about you of like like that is a thing like when i pitch and when i talk i'm

[41:02] very certain and then someone pitches me the better idea and i go you're right that's better

[41:05] now i'm certain you have the thing and that's going to be the thing but but it was it was it

[41:10] was a sort of a it spoke to his ability to sort of look you and really see your essence and to

[41:15] and to just nail who you were as a person and that and he was telling me basically like i'm unsure of

[41:22] you and we were still in the sort of pilot stage and then and then he died the next week and you

[41:27] know um and but he still left me with something i mean he was just known for that and so i'm not

[41:32] telling the story to sort of to shit on mike nichols you know who's a genius and has done some

[41:36] of the best movies of all time or to show and gary shanley who did arguably the best comedy of all

[41:40] time and maybe two of the top 10 these are great artists who did something that didn't work and you

[41:46] know for Mike Nichols was probably just a job but for Gary Shandling it was a wound he carried his

[41:49] whole life you know very rare is the actor who takes a paycheck gig and then doesn't invest

[41:56] something of themselves in it and he was the kind of he was a writer actor so everything he did he

[42:00] put everything into and so when it failed and it was bad and it was mocked it hurt him so that he

[42:06] was still telling me these stories 20 years later and it was like it happened yesterday

[42:10] you were basically in the position of you were the government agent who shows up at his cabin

[42:16] where he's chopping wood and he's got a long beard and you're like we need you for another

[42:20] mission and he's like no i can't do it again and then but instead of going out for the mission

[42:24] he has you sit down for like three hours and kind of like like lays the whole story out for you so

[42:29] that you know how badly he got hurt on that last mission and then you walk away and you're like

[42:33] yeah maybe you shouldn't

[42:35] yeah oh okay

[42:36] I totally get why you don't want to do this mission now

[42:39] I mean hearing all this makes me

[42:40] feel kind of guilty

[42:43] for basically everyone involved

[42:45] in any movie we've made fun of

[42:47] over the years I'm sorry Chris

[42:49] I'm sorry Chris Weitz I'm sorry

[42:50] you know name another person

[42:53] name another person who's involved in a movie we did over the years

[42:55] yeah I guess that's true

[42:57] I think you guys do a nice

[42:59] job of separating the actors

[43:01] from it even in your New Mutants episode

[43:03] last week you were yeah and a taylor joy took a shot on accident see i didn't see the movie but

[43:07] as soon as you guys they didn't really hit but you acknowledge that she's a great actress and

[43:10] probably the next big thing that you know it's going to be in all these great movies and queens

[43:14] gam it's great so i think you guys do a nice job of keeping it focused on where the mockery should

[43:20] be focused on well i i hope so i mean even like i mean you know even the screenplay stuff though i

[43:26] say that i'm more inclined to blame the the script but you know almost all of these movies unless

[43:33] it's something like you know like food fight or whatever some like fringe nonsense like almost

[43:39] all these movies are from people who have done work before and will do work good work again you

[43:45] know like like i don't want to make fun of i don't want to like dismiss someone unless uh they're a

[43:55] miserable human being like on the basis of like oh maybe they've had a couple of stinkers in their

[44:00] uh professional life i mean there but for the grace of god i know but if you only let yourself

[44:06] that you just be just chevy chase movies right and like you know yeah that's a short podcast

[44:10] that's that's true it's a simple podcast chasing our own tails with that one it's well it's called

[44:17] chasing chevy oh and you just yeah i mean that's a little on the nose but okay welcome to episode

[44:22] five of modern problems where we enter modern problems we're talking about we're talking about

[44:29] modern problems again join us on our other podcast cops and podcastersons uh the uh so i think and

[44:37] the other thing to keep in mind also is that like there's a certain i mean the thing that i loved

[44:41] about cats the most joyful movie going experience i had in the year 2020 which again not not saying

[44:47] that much since i only went to the theater twice i think in the year 2020 but the other one was

[44:52] once upon a time in hollywood which i also love so like that's you know but that uh the to see

[44:57] someone try so hard for something big and fail at it is it gives you kind of like the reverse hope

[45:06] of like oh this is better than living in a world where every movie was just kind of like mediocre

[45:10] where every movie was just kind of like the kinds of thrillers that were churned out in the 90s

[45:15] where it's like okay this is fine okay oh another one of these great and now oh now the secretary

[45:21] defense is going to tell them why they need to save all those hostages okay now they're doing it

[45:24] and harrison ford says get off my plane and the movie's over okay that was acceptable like you

[45:30] want to live in a world where people are trying and failing because it means that they are also

[45:34] trying and sometimes succeeding uh and rather than not trying well and also the extravagant

[45:41] foolishness of it is endearing i mean in cats's case too the fact that it is that you can in every

[45:46] every frame of that that that strange like creature you're like oh the people making this

[45:52] really cared about cats like they really like they they wanted to do this right and maybe there is no

[45:57] way to do this right on film but they tried it and and all the performers like you can't fault

[46:02] them in that one because they're they're you know they're doing exactly what you're talking about

[46:05] joel where they're like yeah i'm making myself vulnerable and i'm doing this role like i'm gonna

[46:09] be this cat i'm not gonna wink at the audience and be like isn't it dumb that i'm like rubbing

[46:13] my head on another person's head and we have cgi fur all over our bodies i'm not gonna i'm not gonna

[46:18] billy zane my way through this movie although now i want to see billy zane's cats where he does all

[46:23] the parts but you know i want i want every if every movie could have the passion of cats or

[46:31] val kilmer's mark twain show that he used to do like then yeah i want everything to have that

[46:36] passion where you're like this is not working but i feel like you are you're entering a sort of mystic

[46:41] ecstatic state at how much you are trying to make it work yeah and uh you know cats was i saw an

[46:47] opening night in the arc light at the at a 10 p.m screening with about a half a crowd about half gay

[46:54] everyone was familiar with the uh with the musical everyone was a little drunk and kind of knew what

[47:00] we were in for i was sitting next we were it was a group of people who love bad movies i was sitting

[47:04] next to guys who do a post for a living and they would be whispering in my ears like look in the

[47:09] back right corner it's not rendered and everyone's drunk everyone's singing along everyone's shouting

[47:16] i was i kept shouting what size are they that was my bit which was killing because they kept you

[47:21] know they asked changing from scene to scene and then a sort of collective mania hit by the time

[47:27] skimble shanks came around and we were all drunk everyone started uh standing and stomping to

[47:33] dimple shanks and we the collective delirium and i've been chasing that high you know that was i

[47:39] had that about two months before the pandemic and uh i don't know that's that was the happiest i

[47:45] have been uh you know maybe i can remember being physically in my body so like you know i can't

[47:52] whatever they did to do that thank them i thank every one of them i thank rebel wilson james

[47:57] gordon for the improvs that clearly should not have been included but tom hooper thought they

[48:01] were funny i i think i think i don't want to be like uh like suddenly turning cats into woodstock

[48:09] and be like oh man you had to be there but the thing is there was something really special about

[48:15] seeing cats like early enough in its run that not everyone knew how crazily catastrophically

[48:23] strange pun intended catastrophic like but if you if you saw it early on like there would be a good

[48:31] portion of the audience who was there to see cats because they thought cats was gonna be good

[48:38] and then just like the feeling of like as everyone realized the movie they were watching

[48:45] but still like sort of like over time gave into it and we're like you know what this is a better

[48:51] experience than what i originally intended to have you know in 2019 uh in the movie hustlers

[48:59] there's this amazing moment this like pure moment of joy when uh usher shows up at the strip club

[49:06] and little did i know that 2020 would top that moment of joy with a railroad a railroad cat just

[49:12] showing up there's something about that moment when skimble shanks shows up it's the it's the

[49:17] moment every movie wants to have when the movie is starting to like lose a little bit of steam

[49:21] and then suddenly there's this huge shot in the arm and you're like what how do i have more energy

[49:25] than when the movie started like what is going on here he's so he's so butch he's got the little

[49:30] cat mustache and he's got the little cat suspenders and the idea the idea of like he's a railroad cat

[49:36] we got to make him look as much like a mario cat as possible like if mario was a cat he's

[49:41] skimble shanks you immediately got to go google skimble shanks nude to see how muscular his butt

[49:48] is amazing everyone everyone listening go go look out uh go find skimble shanks but on the internet

[49:56] there's a few pictures out there it's actually i had uh not on your work computers uh early on

[50:02] the pandemic when cats first came out to buy i immediately bought it and then my wife um who i

[50:09] think i went to one screening with didn't really didn't really get the whole thing did not it's

[50:14] not a huge bad movie fan does not like cats was not the bonding experience uh i wanted it to be

[50:19] but my uh five-year-old um really liked it sincerely and it was like the perfect

[50:25] like that's who should like cats perfect pun intended perfect and so and so like it was about

[50:33] a maybe three weeks or four weeks into the the pandemic into quarantine where we're initially

[50:38] you know the first wave of going crazy me and her we would watch it together and then we would both

[50:43] go nuts when scramble shanks came out and there's something about how in the movie in the movie when

[50:51] he shows up the other cats are like scramble shanks fucking scramble shanks is here like

[50:55] scramble shanks here like they can't they cannot contain themselves after a couple of like more

[50:59] downbeat numbers and like he like almost literally bursts through the wall like the kool-aid man like

[51:04] he just appears like up like in a window or something he's like hey scramble shanks that's

[51:09] one of the few internal logic problems

[51:12] with Cats the movie is

[51:14] clearly Skimbleshanks should win

[51:16] the fucking contest of the Jellicle Ball.

[51:19] Is there a better cat?

[51:20] We've seen all of the songs.

[51:21] The whole movie is one by one.

[51:23] The cats come out and say like,

[51:25] I'm Dimble Damble

[51:26] and I do the Dimble Damble dance.

[51:27] And you're like, okay.

[51:28] And then this fucker comes out,

[51:30] blows the roof off the place

[51:31] and gets no consideration for the Jellicle Ball.

[51:34] He should be in the goddamn hot air balloon.

[51:37] They like him too much.

[51:38] They don't want him to leave.

[51:39] here's my theory about skimble shanks skimble shanks has been chosen to go to the heavyside

[51:42] lair so many times that he has taken himself out of consideration and he just shows up to perform

[51:47] as like the halftime show to be like yeah i could win again but i don't even want it take it i just

[51:52] want to show you that i could win he's just been reincarnated a thousand times like the dalai lama

[51:56] like he just keeps going up and coming back down just to like be one among us i like because they

[52:02] bring his his mustache to they bring his mustache and some other mustaches to a kitten and they have

[52:07] the kitten kind of see which one it paws at yeah and when it picks his mustache they know that this

[52:11] is the reincarnated reincarnated dolly skimble shanks yeah they put a little railway in front

[52:15] of him and he just starts tip tapping away and they're like there we go we have found our skimble

[52:21] shanks there's a moment when they're all on the train where uh all the other people who are all

[52:26] the other cats were not skimble shanks go woo woo and you can see in that moment even the characters

[52:30] in cats are looking at each other being like can you believe what a good time we're having like

[52:34] Like, they realize the movie has gone insane, and they're loving it.

[52:38] Yeah, that was all improv.

[52:40] Everybody was just super into it.

[52:42] Well, that's the thing about Catch the Movie.

[52:44] If people don't know, it's an all-improv movie.

[52:46] They just got together on the set, and they just made it up.

[52:48] Well, Elliot, you know, last year around this time,

[52:51] you made a joke about having a yearly Cats show,

[52:56] and I think we kind of did.

[52:57] You guys got to do it.

[52:58] I'm sorry, Natalie.

[52:59] I'm sorry, Jenny, that we didn't have you back.

[53:02] And also Hallie, who was very mad that she was not on the Cats episode, and I said, you'll be on it when we talk about Cats again, and apparently it's not.

[53:08] Listen, there's more.

[53:09] There's more.

[53:10] I don't want to take away anyone's opportunity to talk about Cats.

[53:14] You guys can do another special episode.

[53:16] I think the audience will support it.

[53:18] I don't know.

[53:20] After you talk about Skimbleshanks, after you have the chocolate cake, you're not going to go back for the appetizer.

[53:24] We're not going to go back and talk about Bustopher Jones after we gave it all up on Skimbleshanks.

[53:32] It's not fun to be an actor in a bad movie, especially when you care, right?

[53:36] And so I wrote a pilot with Topher Grace that we sold but never got made.

[53:40] And we were talking about things and he sort of talked about – it's similar to the Gary story of like just how he's like – Topher is a hardcore nerd.

[53:51] Like he likes all of the nerdy comic book stuff.

[53:54] He likes all of the – he does – Stuart, and this might be of your interest.

[54:01] He does recut movies in an avid in his basement.

[54:04] That's what he does.

[54:05] So he's famously, somewhat famously, has a one movie version of the prequels that he cut down.

[54:11] Wow.

[54:13] And when we were working together, he was working on a one movie version of The Hobbit.

[54:18] Which I was very excited about because I was like, that's probably the best version.

[54:24] The one without the dishwashing song.

[54:27] Just two hours of the barrel scene.

[54:29] Just on a loop.

[54:31] Just two hours of them singing while they throw plates around Bilbo and he goes, huh, what, huh?

[54:36] Just a half an hour of the barrels getting stuck and them having to like push against a wall to get back down on the river.

[54:41] So yeah, so he, you know, that's what he does for his spare time.

[54:46] You know, another little secret behind the business, very few actors know how to work in Avid and do it for their own amusement.

[54:54] and like he does it because he just like he wants he likes to he just likes old classic movies and

[55:00] he likes comic books and he likes you know the sci-fi stuff and like genre and like that's one

[55:06] of the things we were we were working on a genre thing and like that's where his passion is and him

[55:11] getting to be in spider-man 3 was like a dream come true for him and he just talked about the

[55:15] excitement of getting the role if we all remember back to those halcyon days spider-man 2 was the

[55:22] pinnacle of of genre cinema at the time so to be the new villain in the third one he was just

[55:29] i think possibly still it might be my favorite superhero yeah still my favorite superhero movie

[55:34] either that or uh or superman 4 but for different reasons and you and i think coming off too there's

[55:40] no way you think three is going to be the movie that comes off of that movie you know and so he

[55:46] was just he was so excited you certainly you certainly you certainly don't think hmm i think

[55:51] i think sam ramey is going to completely lose interest in these characters and you know what

[55:57] he basically without getting in too much detail what he basically described is like he showed up

[56:00] to set and like his excitement was not matched by the rest of the crew and cast and director

[56:06] and it it just instantly was sort of like oh this is one of those slogs and then you're like well

[56:14] maybe it'll cut together like you know butter and like it'll be great and then you go to the

[56:18] premiere and you go oh no it's not and then you know now when they do the listicles of like worst

[56:24] comic book characters it's like the picture of him with the tips and like the tips weren't his

[56:29] idea the frosted tips you know it wasn't it wasn't like he was like this is my interpretation of

[56:35] venom sony you know either you go with me or i bounce look look i've done a lot of work on my

[56:43] own preparing to play venom before now i've just been slathering myself with oil every day to feel

[56:48] what it's like to have a symbiote covering your body and uh let's we're just gonna do like it's

[56:54] it must feel i mean one venom is such a such a super cool character and to be like i get to play

[56:59] this character and the director of the movie is like yeah i don't care maybe he just falls out of

[57:03] out of the sky next to spider-man and then and that's how the costume gets to him and jumps on

[57:07] him and you're like are you not gonna put any extra effort in like it literally just falls out

[57:11] of the sky and lands next to him okay i guess uh but then my character gets a lot of is gets a lot

[57:16] of attention right no the first time we see you as venom you're literally just gonna be kind of

[57:20] like walking across a wall in an alleyway so i get a big reveal not really the audience is gonna be

[57:25] like oh did i just see venom for the first time i didn't realize hold on a sec oh poor tofer and i

[57:32] think you know it's just i think it's useful for people who love bad movies and people who love

[57:37] you know the podcast is just to remember that like every most times people are busting their

[57:43] fucking ass even on something they know isn't very good just be out of professional a sense

[57:48] of professional duty at a sense of like the passion for the art and and then a thousand

[57:55] things out of your control happen and it becomes spider-man 3 yeah so you're saying we should laugh

[58:01] all the harder at them when they fail knowing how much of themselves they've invested in this

[58:06] yeah it's it's a real accurate representation of how bad they were really trying to run and

[58:11] they tripped you know that's what's funny if they were just walking it's not as funny

[58:14] yeah i think that i think you're making a good point it's something we should all

[58:18] keep in mind as we try to be the best people we can be and the best movie fans we can be

[58:23] and dan and stew i think we should keep that in mind as we go on to the next movie we

[58:28] we're going to do an episode about which is hillbilly elegy uh-oh

[58:31] yeah it is as uh our guests observed earlier getting late over here so we should unfortunately

[58:42] wrap up and uh we will thank thank you very heartily for being on here and uh

[58:50] i will ask you if you have anything to plug shortly thereafter shortly after elliot quickly

[58:56] plugs our live show which is uh the evening of uh when this is coming out yeah well i think you

[59:04] just did a great job right there that's the evening uh somebody just hit the fucking nitrous

[59:10] tickets will be available tickets will be available right up until uh showtime at uh

[59:19] what is it theflophousepodcast.simpletix.com i think is that right elliot yes dan that's right

[59:26] tonight the night that this episode is released if you're listening to it the day after it was

[59:30] released sorry you missed it but maybe you didn't allow me to explain we'll be watching and talking

[59:35] about well we already watched it we'll just be talking about teen wolf that's right teenage wolf

[59:40] the movie that has everything novelty t-shirts basketball a very sweaty michael j fox and

[59:46] incredibly unsafe use of a van that's right we'll be talking about teen wolf tonight saturday

[59:50] february 6th that's today at 9 p.m eastern 6 p.m pacific it's going to be like a full flop house

[59:56] live show there's going to be presentations beforehand we're going to have an audience

[59:59] q a at the end somehow if we can get the tech to work find out and see we got a couple other

[1:00:03] special surprises we got some more segments in this one than we usually do i think you're going

[1:00:06] to like it it's only ten dollars a ticket and if you invited a hundred people over to your house

[1:00:11] and you just paid for one ticket we can't stop you please don't uh but or you know what do i don't

[1:00:15] care no no no it's a super spreader you know yeah i mean now it's a bad time to invite 100 people

[1:00:20] over to your house we don't be responsible for that uh but from a financial point of view just

[1:00:23] do whatever. So anyway, that's theflophouse.simpletix.com. Don't put the www in. Remember we told you

[1:00:29] that's going to mess up that URL. Why are you mentioning it now? I'm sorry. It's mixed

[1:00:33] messages. Just go to theflophouse.simpletix.com. Tickets will be available basically up to

[1:00:38] the time the show is on. And if you cannot watch it tonight, that is okay. The video

[1:00:43] will be archived for one week. One week we'll be able to archive that video and you'll still

[1:00:47] have access to it. So buy that ticket, watch it. We're talking Teen Wolf. It's going to

[1:00:52] be a lot of fun uh and i got a special shirt just for the occasion so if you want to see that shirt

[1:00:57] you better go to theflophouse.simpletix.com and i also want to say thank you to our guest thank

[1:01:04] you joel church cooper for coming and spending this time with us and for teaching us a valuable

[1:01:08] lesson about not being such dicks when we talk when we talk about bad movies and uh yeah as i

[1:01:13] as promised uh also uh if you have anything to plug uh feel free sure you can follow me on twitter

[1:01:19] it's church cooper on twitter and uh you can follow me on letterboxd which i am really enjoying

[1:01:25] if you all you film nerd fans out there it's it kind of has the feel of what twitter used to be

[1:01:30] only even more micro selected you know it's just a fun time of people talking about their

[1:01:35] criterion channel so that or you can follow dan mccoy and finds out what movies he's watching

[1:01:39] stoned which is uh which i like to do so uh join me on letterboxd and uh i just want to say one

[1:01:48] thing it was it was a pleasure to be on the show and i also wanted to thank you guys uh for me and

[1:01:52] for all the flop house fans out there for uh you know in the pandemic i've tended to be relying on

[1:01:58] podcasts probably an unhealthy degree to know what day it is sometimes and uh it's been a real

[1:02:04] pleasure to listen to you guys um and it's been nice just to hear the sounds of people having fun

[1:02:10] and friends talking which is you know something that used to be a huge part of my life and now

[1:02:15] I kind of only live

[1:02:16] vicariously through

[1:02:17] the friendships

[1:02:18] I hear on podcasts

[1:02:19] and it's wonderful

[1:02:20] that I still get that chance

[1:02:21] so I want to thank you guys

[1:02:22] for that

[1:02:23] thank you

[1:02:23] that's as touching

[1:02:24] as it is sad

[1:02:25] and we appreciate it

[1:02:26] alright

[1:02:28] but we're all living

[1:02:29] in that world

[1:02:30] that's a world

[1:02:30] we're all in right now

[1:02:31] let's sign off

[1:02:34] thanks once again

[1:02:34] to our guest

[1:02:35] Joel Church Cooper

[1:02:37] I'm Dan McCoy

[1:02:38] I'm Stuart Wellington

[1:02:40] I'm Elliot Kalin

[1:02:41] and our guest has been

[1:02:42] Joel Church Cooper

[1:02:43] goodnight everyone

[1:02:46] bye

[1:02:47] bye

[1:02:47] maximumfun.org

[1:02:55] comedy and culture

[1:02:56] artist owned

[1:02:58] audience supported

FH Mini #23 - Flop Etiquette

Transcript

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