Ep. #335 - Hillbilly Elegy

[0:00] On this episode, we discuss hillbilly elegy, which is like a hellbilly elegy without all them dang dragulas.

[0:30] hey and welcome to the flop house i'm dan mccoy hey i'm stewart wellington i'm elliot calen and uh

[0:40] yeah this is a show dan did you did i take you by surprise well usually you say you're elliot

[0:46] calen and then you kind of just ramble on about some nonsense for a while so it did take me by

[0:51] surprise that you stopped after your name i have to be honest okay um i thought i'd do something

[0:56] different this time note to self never do that again ramble on in the future uh just be a regular

[1:02] led zepp and ramble yeah i think elliot was trying to before we started uh recording or maybe while

[1:07] we were recording elliot was trying to steer this into more of a like a uh relationship slash sexual

[1:13] wellness podcast direction and dan said yeah no sir time to get to the meat of what we're supposed

[1:18] to do here the meat being movie talk so i had to stop myself after my name from saying anything

[1:24] more than that because i knew it would go in a direction dan didn't want much like how uh when

[1:29] i was on jeopardy recently a little brag i was talking about my grandma and i had to stop myself

[1:33] from saying her address out loud because which i realized i was about to say after i named her and

[1:38] i was like uh no she doesn't need this information out there now why why is that why is that second

[1:43] nature to just tag because i was saying i was saying my my uh i was saying my my grandmother

[1:50] Barbara Brichel of New York, and I was about to say

[1:52] Barbara Brichel of, and then her address

[1:54] as if I was announcing a letter that I got

[1:56] on a radio show. Or if you were ordering something

[1:58] through Domino's Pizza Tracker.

[1:59] Exactly, yes. For your grandma.

[2:01] Which I do over the phone constantly.

[2:04] I'm constantly sending my grandma pizzas.

[2:06] And then screenshots of the tracker

[2:12] to let her know.

[2:13] Yeah, but I have to, she doesn't use

[2:16] computers or a phone. Actually, she uses

[2:18] both but so i have to mail her photographs of what the tracker looks like so the tracker gets

[2:22] to her long after the pizza does and living in manhattan as she does there's no source for pizza

[2:26] other than dominoes and the problem then is like because it's because of the lag she thinks another

[2:31] pizza is coming so then you have to which means order another pizza i've got to order another one

[2:36] continues exactly it's a delicious cycle is what and in a way you could make a cycle out of pizza

[2:42] pies because they're kind of like wheels right unless they're i mean you're not gonna get much

[2:47] Yeah, I think they're not load-bearing.

[2:49] Depends on the pizza.

[2:51] You're just going to find yourself collapsed in a pile of metal and pizza.

[2:56] I mean, sounds wonderful to me, except maybe the metal part.

[3:00] That's kind of what happened in Star Wars when they went into the Death Star trash compactor.

[3:04] They're in kind of a puddle of metal and pizza, right?

[3:08] Yeah, I feel like that's what the designer notes were from George Lucas,

[3:11] was that I think the original script says they fall into a big puddle of pizza.

[3:17] Yeah, yeah, but he had to explain that he meant space pizza.

[3:19] And so Ralph McQuarrie had to do a bunch of concept paintings

[3:22] of what pizza would look like in outer space.

[3:24] And so by the time they got to the prequels,

[3:26] George Lucas just said space diner,

[3:28] and they were just like, make it look like a 50s diner.

[3:30] Like, why not?

[3:31] Have an alien wearing a little paper hat and an apron.

[3:34] Why not?

[3:34] And he has a mustache.

[3:35] It's the perfect form.

[3:36] Does he have a mustache?

[3:38] Dexter Jetster has a mustache, yeah.

[3:40] Is he the one with multiple arms?

[3:44] He has multiple arms.

[3:45] Yes, yeah.

[3:46] So he can flip multiple hamburgers.

[3:48] Space burgers, they call them.

[3:50] I'm glad that space replaces ham in that word.

[3:53] Yeah, it's a burger made out of space.

[3:56] And he flips them with a spatula, which is a portmanteau of space and spatula.

[3:59] Space and atula.

[4:03] So, look, here's the thing.

[4:08] We're a podcast.

[4:09] You know that part.

[4:10] But maybe you don't know.

[4:12] If you haven't listened before, we watch a bad movie and then we talk about it.

[4:16] And in this instance, we watched Hillbilly Elegy, the latest big movie to be released on Netflix.

[4:25] Was it going to be a theatrical before all this pandemic?

[4:29] I have to assume so.

[4:30] I have to assume that the only reason that a movie like this gets made is to be eligible for the Academy Awards.

[4:35] So I have to assume.

[4:36] And it's Ron Howard directed, big stars, Glenn Close, Amy Adams, whoever plays J.D., the main character.

[4:43] I have to assume it was meant to be originally for the theaters.

[4:45] Like the way Roma was a Netflix movie, but it was in the theaters.

[4:49] Yeah, it's a movie that came out a little ways back.

[4:56] It had a little controversy because the book it's based on had a lot of political content that I can't speak to because I didn't read the book.

[5:06] But the movie is kind of remarkable for how apolitical it is to the degree that it somehow manages to say less than nothing, I think, by the end.

[5:20] It's certainly a movie where by the end of it you're like, why was that?

[5:23] What was the driving force behind making this other than that it's based on a best-selling book and therefore is money?

[5:31] So considering that it's a movie that takes place over, you know, a number of different years and it jumps around in time and at multiple points, characters are like watching the news.

[5:41] They make a lot of effort to not actually say anything about the political figures in the news.

[5:46] No, I mean, we'll get to the point where one of the characters wants to watch political news and is shut down because his grandma wants to watch Terminator 2.

[5:54] Which, in her defense, a movie she has seen a hundred times.

[6:00] I mean, you could watch it a hundred more times.

[6:02] It's Terminator 2.

[6:03] A movie as which we'll find informs her life philosophy.

[6:07] So the movie has more to say about Terminator 2

[6:10] than it does about America, really.

[6:12] There's an early scene where our lead as a child

[6:16] wants to watch Al Gore and Amy Adams turns the TV off.

[6:19] And I don't know any child who's ever said,

[6:23] no, no, give me more Al Gore.

[6:25] If only.

[6:26] Unless it's in one of those Futurama appearances, perhaps.

[6:29] I don't know.

[6:30] I will say, when I was a kid, I thought it was elf gore, and I'm like, yeah, let's finally see elf get bloody.

[6:35] Like, let's see what elf does when he's let loose and unleashed, like that movie with Jet Li where he had the leash on him and the leash gets taken off him.

[6:42] I don't remember what it's called.

[6:43] We should probably get into the specifics of the movie soon.

[6:46] Oh, sure.

[6:47] Okay, let's talk about it.

[6:48] So, guys, I'm driving the buggy on this one.

[6:52] I'm going to mention, first off, there's a lot of arguing and yelling in this movie, a special kind of yelling, Oscar-style yelling.

[6:59] The kind of yelling that looks really good in the clip that they play when they announce your name at the Oscars.

[7:04] So I'm going to be doing a running tally, as best as I can, of those Oscar yelling scenes.

[7:09] We begin. It's 1997. That's right, the best time to be alive.

[7:14] Star Wars prequels were just a couple years off.

[7:18] You could go see Star Wars Special Edition in the theaters.

[7:20] Jurassic Park was four years old and still going strong in the hearts of America's youth.

[7:25] And other stuff was probably happening, too.

[7:26] I hate to throw in an IMDb goofs here, but when they were in 1997, they didn't have any kind of an establishing shot that indicated that me, Stuart Wellington, was 17 years old at the time.

[7:39] I feel like it would have been a better way of establishing exactly what year they're in.

[7:43] Stuart Wellington probably wearing a T-shirt that says like KMFDM on it or something.

[7:48] And what would you be doing in this establishing scene?

[7:52] I was 17, so I was probably seated.

[7:56] I spent a lot of that year on my butt.

[8:01] I forgot that was the sitting portion of your life.

[8:04] So I was probably seated, and I'm guessing I was rifling through a stack of reptiles

[8:10] or reptiles magazines or...

[8:13] No, okay, the magazines was important.

[8:15] Not a stack of lizards and turtles, yeah, which would be appropriate because the movie

[8:20] begins we're introduced by our narrator jd he's a nice young boy so nice he rescues a turtle from

[8:25] the road in jackson kentucky which you think at first is where he lives but it's not it's a world

[8:31] of beautiful nature and noble poor white folk who either bully jd or come in and beat up the bullies

[8:37] who are bullying jd now can i say this is one of them i'm sorry i cut you off but this is one of

[8:42] the many uh digressions of the films the film that i'm like i don't know why this is in the movie

[8:47] This movie puts in a lot of stuff where you're like, I don't know why this is in the movie, and this is the first of it because it's like, okay, he makes a point of saying he spent most of his life somewhere else.

[8:59] Nothing is particularly learned about him in this first scene, and they also make Kentucky and Ohio look like two vastly different universes when they are geographically close.

[9:13] Yeah. So I think, but I think they're emotionally, they're supposed to be two different universes. In Kentucky, you live out in the woods and your, and family is the most important thing. And, uh, you don't have to worry about bullies because somebody's uncle is going to come by and beat that bully up. Uh, but his family, he just spends the summers there. He lives, and that's where his family is originally from. His grandparents left and went to Ohio. That's right. They're part of the Kentucky diaspora that has spread all throughout the United States, but maintains that rich ethnic culture of Kentucky, uh, no matter where they go.

[9:43] and someday they'll be able to return to the homeland, I assume.

[9:45] He lives in Ohio with his mom, Amy Adams, his sister, and his mama, Glenn Close.

[9:50] That's his grandma, for anyone who's not from Kentucky.

[9:53] So technically, since they live in Ohio, they're not hillbillies but suburbillies,

[9:56] which are kind of, you know, it's where hillbillies go when they can no longer live in the hills.

[10:00] Where they live in Ohio, it was a bustling mill town when Mama and Papa moved to Ohio in the 30s or 40s.

[10:06] I wasn't quite certain.

[10:07] But now it's your classic American shuttered Main Street.

[10:11] And what J.D. says in the narration is his family, what they were missing, was hope.

[10:15] Cut to 2011.

[10:17] J.D. seems to have found his hope because he's working his way through a Yale law school.

[10:21] But if he can't get a paid summer internship, he cannot afford to stay in school.

[10:26] He goes to a fancy meet and greet with potential law firm employers, but he cannot get a handle on how much silverware there is at his place.

[10:33] There's too many forks.

[10:35] There's too many forks, damn it.

[10:36] Too many forks.

[10:37] Also, he has trouble ordering wine.

[10:39] yeah but mainly it's the fork thing which called it which drives him so confused that he has to

[10:43] call his girlfriend to ask her how do i use the forks yeah dan you have looked like you have

[10:48] something to say on the subject or the maximum amount there are there's a lot of silverware

[10:52] that he is confused by and he is confused uh by the fact that there's more than one type of

[10:57] wine at the at this place and the thing like look at this point he has been to yale law school but

[11:05] he's also just a human that exists in the world like he works in a restaurant the very existence

[11:11] of different types of silverware for stuff shouldn't baffle him now i looked you know this

[11:17] is one of the times that i looked i'm like okay is this in the book turns out this is in the book

[11:22] but i still don't believe it actually happened because because it is like i have trouble i mean

[11:27] at least not to this degree it is as if he is an alien who has arrived on earth and it's like

[11:32] but one only needs one implement of of food devouring and he dan he is an alien from the

[11:39] planet poor people that's he's essentially throughout the movie is like a yeah as a

[11:43] visitor to the planet rich from the planet four maybe that's what sound what maybe that's what

[11:46] it's like i don't know i grew up middle class uh i think it was david brooks who wrote that

[11:50] column a few years ago about bringing a friend of his to a sandwich restaurant and his friend

[11:54] being bewildered by the variety of sandwiches and ingredients and being paralyzed their thoughts

[11:58] unable to move because they could not comprehend

[12:00] so many sandwich ingredients and at the time I was

[12:02] like that sounds made up I don't think

[12:04] that's a real thing and if you were a good

[12:06] friend David Brooks you would explain what the

[12:08] what stuff is good on a sandwich then

[12:10] because I've certainly been to plenty of restaurants

[12:12] where I didn't know what something was on the menu

[12:14] and I asked whoever I was with and they said oh that's this

[12:16] thing your friend is hungry David

[12:18] Brooks like yeah describe what

[12:20] a sandwich is to him don't go home and write

[12:22] a column about it get him that

[12:24] especially when you know that his when you know that his

[12:26] brother mel brooks would have done a hilarious routine improvising what each of those ingredients

[12:30] are they're not really related so he's he gets there and he's having a lot of trouble figuring

[12:35] out the the the etiquette for fine dining and part of me is like yeah man maybe you shouldn't

[12:43] get this job if something like this is fucking you up so bad like you need to control your shit

[12:48] like fake it till you make it buddy and i mean like and then and that's even before we get to

[12:56] the point when a lawyer or one of the i guess are there lawyers right that they're talking to you or

[13:00] whatever they are one of the guys now this is this is where this is where law students are supposed

[13:04] to have dinner with law members of law firms so that they can it's kind of like an audition dinner

[13:09] to see who's going to get an interview to get a job because much like uh the rise of skywalker

[13:16] there's a lot of steps to get to where you actually want to go you've got to get to the dinner then

[13:20] after the dinner you get an interview with an interview maybe you get a job and at the job you

[13:24] get the dagger that you hold up to the sun and it tells you what the where the planet is that you

[13:28] need to find the magic emperor thing i don't really remember what they were looking for in

[13:31] the rise of skywalker like a key uh there's some dagger that took you to yeah the death star

[13:37] wreckage there was a key there that took you somewhere else um so and this is the scene where

[13:44] the lawyer when they when he uh jd reveals his his background he uses a little bit of like as

[13:51] like window dressing to make himself seem more interesting and this is when one of the lawyers

[13:55] used the term redneck and he says uh we don't use that word in a way that felt very offensive to me

[14:01] i don't know why well so he gets you're right he calls his girlfriend about this silverware problem

[14:08] then gets a phone call from his sister saying you need to come home your mom has just od'd the movie

[14:13] presents this as almost as harrowing as the silverware problem and then he immediately hangs

[14:18] up in his sister and then goes back to dinner and well then he starts playing it up he's like you

[14:22] know my family we're we're descent we're hillbilly royalty because we're descended from the hatfields

[14:26] and the mccoys and the lawyer is like hey i guess you know what's it like being a you know must be

[14:31] nice not being around those rednecks and he goes excuse me sir and i was like well you you were the

[14:35] one who was playing up the the hillbilly aspect like i don't know and the it's one of those

[14:40] moments where um i guess it's supposed to be that like he can talk like that because he is from

[14:45] And he's from Kentucky by way of Ohio, but other people – it's unsure.

[14:49] There's some sort of etiquette dynamic going on that I certainly, not being a hillbilly and not being a wealthy Yale lawyer, I do not know how it operates.

[14:56] I am merely – guys, I'm just a middle-class Jewish New Jersey guy who works in Hollywood.

[15:00] I don't know how either of these worlds operate.

[15:02] I'm in my bubble, and I'm not going to try to puncture their bubbles.

[15:05] I would I would be somewhat perturbed if someone made like assumptions about someplace I lived.

[15:15] The degree to which, though, these characters are portrayed as like comically out of touch rich people is like they all should have like bad guy signs on them.

[15:30] i feel like in this scene because like i'm not saying that there aren't plenty of comically

[15:35] out of touch rich people but these are like these people act like they have never talked to anyone

[15:41] who was not wealthy in their life and there are people who hire uh students many of whom

[15:47] presumably like grew up as he did and worked hard to sort of be able to fund going to the law school

[15:54] and and you know changing their their uh circumstances somewhat i mean but also uh

[16:03] the the one lawyer is slightly offensive and jd comes down on him and the other lawyer the one

[16:09] jd really wants to impress seems to be on jd's side almost instantly like it does it does not

[16:13] jack it is and if anything it's like uh now jd recognizes the power of of offense i guess but

[16:20] But anyway, the – J.D. – what I think – what gets me the most about him is he clearly has a strong narrative of I lifted myself up to get to this place, and that's a good sellable narrative since he wrote a book about it.

[16:31] But I guess at that point in his life, he doesn't notice it.

[16:33] He still sees it as a weakness.

[16:34] Anyway, J.D. now flashes –

[16:37] Sorry.

[16:37] I mean for what it's worth, and it may not be much to compare it to quote-unquote real life because I am sure that his memoir is also fictionalized to some degree.

[16:47] but um i mean he has a talking horse in it yeah but like uh from what i looked into you know like

[16:54] this is not the way it was like his you know people that he dealt with uh kind of like looked

[17:01] on his background as like sort of an interesting factor but not a thing that like if anything a

[17:07] thing that set him apart as you're saying elliot and like not a thing that he hid like he seems to

[17:12] be concerned about hiding to some degree where he came from until he sees like how it can maybe

[17:18] advantage himself yeah i will say it's this is uh this movie so i just uh we're because of

[17:26] scheduling we are recording this before our live show but we are releasing it afterwards last night

[17:31] i did my review of teen wolf and i forgot that teen wolf exists in a universe where people know

[17:35] about werewolves but they are oppressed and so it's almost like this movie is to hillbillies

[17:39] says Teen Wolf is to Teen Wolves, where it's like, this is the thing that gives him his power,

[17:43] but it's also what marks him out as an other. And in real life, I don't know that people from

[17:48] Kentucky are really that marked out. But I don't know. Again, if you've been to Kentucky and you

[17:51] went to Yale, write in. Hallie went to Yale, but she's not from Kentucky. Does not count.

[17:55] Coloradans are treated very well there, I think. So anyway, J.D. flashes back to his youth. He and

[18:00] his mom, Amy Adams, are painting Easter eggs. His mom calls these their family heirlooms. They do

[18:04] the thing where they suck the yolk out of the egg so they can keep that eggshell. But he gets a pet

[18:08] dog and that dog breaks the eggs and mom loses her shit that's right it's oscar yelling scene

[18:13] number one but then she apologized to him and bonds with him over his magic the gathering cards

[18:19] which which was a very real 1997 touch to me so i have a couple of points here one is uh i mean the

[18:27] dog doesn't break the eggs this is the first time that jd is like super clumsy and is like dang it

[18:33] and, like, knocks a table over.

[18:34] And then the second thing is, buddy,

[18:38] if you got a fucking Lord of the Pit in 1997,

[18:43] just sell that shit, dude.

[18:45] It's worth so much money.

[18:46] And to see it just sitting there, not even single-sleeved?

[18:50] What the fuck, dude?

[18:52] Well, you know he doesn't really know what he's doing.

[18:55] He's not a guy who puts card combos together.

[18:57] He just sits there dinging you with Prodigal Sorcerer

[18:59] while you're setting up your mana,

[19:02] And that's his only strategy.

[19:03] He doesn't read Inquest magazine or anything like that.

[19:07] He just doesn't know what he's doing.

[19:08] Now, I want to make two points that are sort of related.

[19:13] Not as important as the collectible cards points.

[19:15] But there are two things that are sort of related here.

[19:19] Number one, you mentioned how there are all these Oscar screaming scenes.

[19:23] And they mostly come from Amy Adams, some from Glenn Close.

[19:28] And I think that in a different movie, like they're working hard.

[19:32] I think they're putting in like fine performances.

[19:35] The problem with their performances is they're all Oscar yelling scenes.

[19:39] And I blame that more on the direction of the screenwriting because this movie feels like a parade of like incidents.

[19:47] And each incident is like the most dramatic incident that happened that year.

[19:52] And if this movie has all this framing device of, oh, the guy as an adult going back to be with his mom in his hometown, stuff that is apparently not in the book, and the top thing that would probably improve the movie is eliminating all that shit because it would give a little more time for some sort of nuance and low points to go with all the screaming.

[20:15] I think you're right. I mean, it's clear there's a lot of—they're acting their hearts out, God bless them. It's a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing, because at the heart of the movie, there's kind of like a meaninglessness. And I think that the framing device doesn't help—I guess it's supposed to provide stakes that, like, if he's got to deal with this situation or else he's not going to get this summer job. But it's also like, you know that he's already at Yale.

[20:38] Yeah.

[20:38] like he's the biggest hurdle has been overcome you know yeah and even if he's having trouble

[20:43] staying in yeah like the biggest hurdle i assume was getting to yeah yeah exactly like if this

[20:48] movie has like the stakes of this movie should not be will this guy get a good lawyer job the

[20:53] stakes should be will this kid get out of this sort of like horrible family situation that's a

[20:59] much bigger stake and the and this kid survived uh survived being a marine at least like one tour

[21:07] of being a marine which gets glossed over in a montage at the end that gets mentioned very yeah

[21:13] almost not at all so uh so anyway we're still in this flashback amy adams to make it up to him

[21:18] takes him to a sports card store he is super clumsy in it they're like dancing in the sports

[21:23] card store or something and knock over a rack of stuff she gets into an argument with the guy who

[21:27] i don't know if he owns the store or just works there it doesn't really matter but he has the

[21:30] power to throw them out of the store but it's okay because she stole the cards that he wanted

[21:34] And that's what a good mom she is.

[21:36] On the drive home, I don't remember why she gets mad at him and threatens to kill them both in a car crash, leading to Oscar yelling scene number two.

[21:42] He's like, you're a bitch, mom.

[21:43] And she hits him and he runs away to a neighbor who calls the police.

[21:46] And then that flashback gets paused so that J.D. can decide, you know what?

[21:50] I'm going to skip this job interview.

[21:52] I'm going to drive all night to be with 10 hours to be with my mom in Kentucky.

[21:55] And then in the memory, Mama shows up and J.D. is like, no, I won't press charges.

[22:00] everyone like i think i mean you gloss over it you go and you go quickly but it is like

[22:05] it is a scene where we're watching a mother like violently abuse her child and it's i guess it's a

[22:12] little like at least for the viewer it's toned down because the mother is amy adams and she's

[22:17] not a you know this they're about the same size but it's still fucking horrible and you're like

[22:23] yeah i would oh i wanted to say that this is while you're watching it you're like this is

[22:27] horrible i don't know why i'm watching this you know but it is the closest the movie felt to like

[22:32] there are a couple of scenes in the movie that felt affecting in some way and this is one of

[22:37] them because i do think it showed the sort of terrifying nature of someone who you know is

[22:43] clearly struggling with addiction that creates these huge mood swings and how it would be to

[22:49] be around someone so erratic that you could be dancing with them one moment and then the next

[22:53] moment they threaten to kill you both in the car yeah well well that's again like if it if the movie

[22:58] was more of a like if it didn't have that framing dice the framing device posits jd as the center of

[23:04] the story and amy adams should be the center of the story but instead she just becomes this like

[23:09] hurricane that enters and leaves kind of at random almost like i'm never entirely sure why the

[23:15] flashbacks are happening when they're happening but if it was the story of like a mother and a

[23:20] son and you know there have been lots of movies about mothers and sons it's a very effective thing

[23:23] to do a movie about that which is what this should be but instead it becomes about like

[23:27] is jd gonna make it to this interview on time which is not it's it it makes all these other

[23:32] things feel like it feels like there's two different movies going on and one of them is

[23:35] much more harrowing than the other but they all have they have to be at the same kind of

[23:39] tone level i'll go you i'll go you one better one of them is uh ridiculously overwrought and

[23:45] the other one is boring yes it is boring especially when he i mean i'll skip i'll just mention my my

[23:51] big issue with this that i just thought of today which i didn't realize at the time was he's like

[23:55] am i gonna stay here with my mom who desperately needs help to stay off drugs or am i gonna go to

[24:00] this meeting and it's like i mean maybe they won't understand because they're cold-hearted

[24:04] rich lawyers but like why not tell them you have a family medical emergency and ask if you could do

[24:08] the interview over the phone yeah i like that it's maybe maybe i'm coming at it from a zoom

[24:13] meeting world where we do all of our things remotely this was back in 2011 when pressing

[24:17] the flash was the most important thing it's also right after he show he he proves uh that he had

[24:23] he can put at least three thousand dollars on his credit cards and i was like why doesn't he just

[24:28] get a fucking like round trip flight he get a round trip flight for a couple hundred bucks go

[24:33] there do the interview be back and his mom might still be asleep yeah i mean i mean yeah no i was

[24:40] gonna say ellie you bring up a good point about uh how we uh all used to like to press the flesh

[24:45] back then now what why were we pressing all that flesh well we're good why why did it have to be

[24:50] flattened out i mean i prefer my flesh kind of as it is nope well that's because dan you're only at

[24:55] the beginning of the wrinkling process your your flesh is going to get wrinklier and wrinklier as

[24:59] time goes on you're going to want to press it to get those wrinkles out to get the folds right now

[25:03] you're at you're at the right at the cusp of when your flesh goes from smooth to folded

[25:07] and when you press the flesh with an old person it's not like they're doing your favorite you're

[25:11] doing them a favor because you're helping smooth out all those rings now if you fold that flesh

[25:16] though you can you can fit into a smaller area like into the overhead compartment you know

[25:21] fold it up dan what you're asking what you're saying is horrifying that's i also like that

[25:26] la just coined a new hip way to say wrinkles by calling them rinks yep um or rinky dinks you can

[25:34] call that stewart i also saw uh with the credit card thing i saw a very like salient um thing uh

[25:41] i was reading an article on vox where people were talking about like why is this why does this movie

[25:46] feel so false you know a couple of them having grown up in appalachia and one of them said

[25:52] there's that scene where he's buying uh gasoline and he does like his car just declined and she

[25:59] was railing against the idea that like in movies showing that someone has is in financial distress

[26:05] the shorthand is always like oh your card has been declined and she's like bullshit bullshit

[26:10] like if you are if you've been in like those sort of dire financial straits you know exactly how

[26:16] much money you have yeah like it is people who can afford to lose money that don't necessarily

[26:22] know that are surprised when the card is declined no that's a good point it's also uh yeah i guess

[26:28] another thing that makes it feel artificial to me is that this is for all the act for all the

[26:32] acting amy adams and glenn close doing it and they're great actors and they're trying their

[26:35] hardest i am never not aware that it's amy adams and glenn close on screen and there's a line from

[26:41] a there's a fire sign theater sketch where there's a line where they're introducing a movie and they

[26:44] go stories of ordinary people told by rich hollywood stars and that's what this movie

[26:49] feels like the entire time like i mean they're they're trying their best but they are not

[26:53] disappearing i mean no matter how much effort they do to make glenn close look like bilbo seeing the

[27:00] ring in frodo's hands i do i do i mean i that is and i blame and i blame but i blame that on the

[27:08] script and the director too like i feel like they are not given the material to become characters

[27:12] yeah you know i do admire that is a perfect way of describing her but i do admire the that you're

[27:18] seeing a movie where an old person who is a big star looks that old and like they're allowed to

[27:26] look that old because even in movies that try and de-glam people like there's only so far that they

[27:31] go whereas like glen close looks like plenty of like old women i would see around like my small

[27:37] town yeah wearing a like a cat shirt or cat sweatshirt that i exactly pay all my money for

[27:44] yeah and and but they don't mean they don't go too far like nicole kibben and destroyer where

[27:49] she looks like a laser beam was pointed at her face i remember watching that i remember watching

[27:55] that with my wife and she was like so when are they going to show the accident she was in and

[27:58] i'm like yeah i think that's just supposed to indicate she had a lot of gin over the course

[28:02] of her life uh so uh anyway he goes to the hospital we finally see amy adams in the present

[28:08] time she doesn't look like she's aged that much to be honest uh she does not have insurance and

[28:12] the hospital is kicking her out and this is the weird thing about this movie is again i hadn't

[28:16] read the book and i kept hearing the book was like this conservative apologia but the movie

[28:20] if it's if it has any political point it is that you need a universal health care program because

[28:25] the problem they keep coming up against is they don't have proper health care like her his mom

[28:29] cannot cannot afford to stay in rehab or get a hospital bed so it was like if ever this is about

[28:35] anything it's about the need for uh better health care right and but sorry there's a good point i

[28:41] think that the the problem with these you know pulled myself up from my by my own bootstraps

[28:47] narratives right like yeah audrey pointed out watching it is that people who are sort of making

[28:52] that conservative argument uh aren't acknowledging like why you needed to be pulled up by your

[29:01] bootstraps in the first place like like uh amy adams and to a slightly lesser degree uh glenn

[29:08] close although not that much are you know acting terribly for a lot of the movie uh and it's for

[29:16] reasons of you don't mean you don't mean in terms of their acting acting you mean like their behavior

[29:20] their behavior and it's because it's because amy adams is uh struggling with addiction uh

[29:25] glenn close is like sort of embittered by living near the poverty line and the thing is if they

[29:32] if there's the problem is that there aren't the social systems to support them you know and if

[29:38] that's not the problem then these people are just being assholes because they're assholes you know

[29:43] like whereas like the reasons these people are are like kind of being horrible for a lot of it

[29:47] is they've had to struggle with so much you know yeah that equation you're saying dan if if they

[29:53] did if they had a ubi a universal basic income they might not have to act so much as if they

[29:57] have ibs irritable bowel syndrome that is exactly what i'm saying endemic please endemic to the

[30:02] Please quote me as saying that.

[30:04] Put it in the Flophouse newsletter.

[30:06] Blast it out.

[30:07] This is Dan McCoy's basic platform when he's running for office is a UBI keeps away IBS.

[30:13] Now, UTI is a different issue.

[30:16] Anyway, moving on.

[30:17] Yeah.

[30:18] So, J.D. learns about that job interview we mentioned a couple times.

[30:21] He's going to drive all night, he assumes, but what's going to happen with his mom?

[30:25] Anyway, it's a 10-hour drive away.

[30:27] He has another flashback, remembering when his grandpa, Pawpaw, died, and everyone in Kentucky flew to the funeral procession.

[30:33] When they find the body, Glenn Close leans close and gives him a little kiss on the forehead, and you can see the actor's eyeballs flutter, and you're like, is she a fucking necromancer?

[30:42] You have to imagine that actor was like, I cannot believe I'm getting a kiss from Glenn Close right now.

[30:47] This is amazing.

[30:48] And one Tim Howard over here is like, fuck it, print.

[30:50] Deal.

[30:52] I learned this from Roger Corman.

[30:54] No one gives a shit, so let's keep moving.

[30:55] I actually teared up.

[30:57] I've got three more best-selling books to make into movies this year.

[31:00] Tom Hanks has only signed on for two of them, so let's go.

[31:02] I actually teared up a little bit at this, and Audrey was making fun of me.

[31:05] I'm like, look, I'm not tearing up about these characters.

[31:08] I'm tearing up about the concept of living your whole life with a person and then finding them dead.

[31:15] And I was just thinking about that now.

[31:18] I'm thinking about Elliot's old Goosebumps thing, where it's like, well, this is not scary in a movie,

[31:24] but if it was happening to me in real life, I'd be scared.

[31:27] Sure, yeah. If it was happening to you, if in real life you lost your lifetime spouse, then yes, you would be sad.

[31:33] So I'm glad that you were able to put yourself in that situation, Dan.

[31:36] But it really got to me, the idea that when people in Kentucky see – or maybe – I assume they were living in Ohio then, but I don't know.

[31:43] When poor people see a funeral procession pass by, they stop and salute it like it's the presidential death train.

[31:51] And that did not ring true to me, but I don't know.

[31:55] But I just didn't like the implications that in other parts of the country, people are cold-hearted and don't care about death.

[32:00] I think Presidential Death Train was the original title for Snowpiercer, right?

[32:04] Yeah, it was, but only because originally Chris Evans was playing Franklin Pierce.

[32:10] The point of that scene, Elliot, is we're all hard-hearted in New York when we don't salute a funeral.

[32:16] It's like, why aren't you saluting?

[32:17] I didn't know there was a funeral.

[32:19] There are millions of people in this city.

[32:20] I'm sorry.

[32:21] Look, Dan, I can't help it if I'm the kind of guy who laughs at a funeral.

[32:24] It's been one week since you looked at me.

[32:26] It has been one week since I looked at you over Skype.

[32:28] That's true.

[32:29] It has been one week.

[32:30] And I can't help it.

[32:32] How can I help it if I think it's funny when you're mad?

[32:34] That's the rest of that line I was trying to think of.

[32:35] And that also applies to you.

[32:37] Yeah, thank you.

[32:39] I didn't realize the song One Week by Barenaked Ladies is about our relationship, Dan.

[32:44] And if I had a million dollars, maybe I would buy you a house.

[32:48] What other songs do they have?

[32:49] Broken to the Old Apartment.

[32:52] That one's actually kind of good.

[32:54] Fuck that.

[32:54] Okay.

[32:55] I don't know them.

[32:56] Anyway.

[32:57] No, I'm not a bare naked ladies fan.

[32:58] I'm sorry, guys.

[32:59] Stuart, I happen to know you do like naked ladies.

[33:02] What?

[33:02] Don't tell anyone, Elliot.

[33:04] Sorry, it's your secret.

[33:06] My enemies will use it against me.

[33:09] Your enemies, like if you're hunting a rabbit,

[33:13] the rabbit's going to dress up like a pretty lady

[33:15] to try to distract you.

[33:16] It's happened before.

[33:17] The old Onion article,

[33:19] Area Man has naked lady fetish,

[33:21] and it's all about this disgusting fetish

[33:23] this guy has for seeing women without their clothes on okay so uh amy adams she takes that

[33:28] death particularly hard she was very close to papa it's made clear that papa was i guess protecting

[33:33] her in some way from real life i don't know and pretty soon she's losing her nursing job by

[33:38] stealing pills getting high and roller skating through the hallways in a scene that in an 80s

[33:42] comedy would be considered like a rapturous you know like joy this it's a hijink and this is the

[33:48] second time i was like now there's no way this happened this apparently did happen she did lose

[33:53] her job after uh you know who i blame through the hospital i blame the woman who lends her the

[33:58] roller skates she's in the nurse locker room and she's like can i try on those roller skates and

[34:02] it's like never let amy adams try on roller skates that just goes without saying where are you going

[34:06] to skate and then it's just a hard cut to her skating down the halls and presumably there was

[34:10] a point where that woman could have been like like the halls no you know oh that's funny it was

[34:16] answered as she's going to the door like going hey hey maybe don't go out there it's a hospital

[34:22] This leads to another big fight between her and J.D., Oscar yelling scene number three.

[34:26] That's three we've got so far.

[34:27] Then we're at Ma Ma's house.

[34:30] Young J.D., this is when he wants to watch the Clinton impeachment news, but Ma Ma wants to watch Terminator 2.

[34:35] And she explains her life philosophy that everyone is either a good Terminator, a bad Terminator, or neutral, which would be what, like, Eddie Furlong's friend who was from Salute Your Shorts?

[34:44] Like, is that neutral?

[34:45] There are two problems with this.

[34:48] Number one, I don't know if I am a Terminator.

[34:52] I don't know how that combines with the two bears that live inside me.

[34:55] Dan, one, you're neutral.

[34:57] Totally.

[34:58] And it means there's a good Terminator and a bad Terminator inside each of those bears.

[35:03] Okay.

[35:04] But also, like, this idea that there are good, bad, and neutral Terminators.

[35:09] Well, they don't specify that the neutral is a Terminator.

[35:11] Why is this guy that built these neutral Terminators?

[35:12] What?

[35:13] I don't think it's a neutral Terminator.

[35:14] Like a Terminator exoskeleton robot is just walking around going, eh, I'm not going to get involved.

[35:19] I don't have a stake in this.

[35:20] I think it's more that maybe she's saying you're a good Terminator, you're a bad Terminator, or you're the kind of person who gets shot accidentally by a Terminator.

[35:29] But I think the neutral is not considered a Terminator.

[35:31] Stuart, you're the kind of T-expert around here.

[35:34] Tech-spert.

[35:35] I'm a tech-spert.

[35:37] Tech-spert.

[35:37] So are you asking me to give a ruling here whether or not neutral indicates a Terminator or not?

[35:43] Clearly not.

[35:44] I mean, just the act of terminating means that you're picking a side, whether you're fighting for the future or not, guys.

[35:49] Yeah.

[35:51] Okay, fair point.

[35:51] Now, Stuart, this is possibly insulting, but you're clearly not a hillbilly.

[35:58] Your mother is clearly not a crazy old lady.

[36:01] No, I'm from a very flat part of the country, northern Indiana.

[36:05] There are no hills to be found.

[36:07] Yeah, you're a plain billy, if anything.

[36:10] Well, we do adopt a slight southern twang.

[36:12] A southern twang that I have certainly played up since I moved to New York and wanted to look more distinct, I think.

[36:18] When I started hanging out with a friend from England, I found that my twang got worse.

[36:23] And I'm like, why do I do this?

[36:26] Why am I trying to peacock?

[36:28] This scene of Mama wanting to watch Terminator 2 and really getting into the content of it just reminded me of so many stories of your mom sharing horror or science fiction movies with you.

[36:39] i'm just it just maybe i was like i forgot what a cool mom stewart has like this scene made me

[36:43] remind reminded me yeah she would always show she would always make me watch things and she's always

[36:48] like stewart would love this and half the time it was like like creep show two or something that

[36:53] would scar me and i would be like half the time it was emmanuel in space yeah stewart would love this

[36:58] um and yeah he likes we didn't talk i have talked on the podcast about the time uh my mom caught me

[37:04] and my buddies watching the sex scene in terminator and laughing and she uh furiously turned off the

[37:10] vhs player and said uh that they're doing it for the future and i was like oh man i love it so much

[37:19] my mom's punishing you for not understanding love yeah for laughing at love not not not taking it

[37:25] seriously that that sex is what's going to save humanity from from skynet in the future beautiful

[37:30] metaphor yeah when i re-watched a couple weeks ago i you know i i saw that scene with new eyes

[37:36] eyes that thought it was hilarious that two people would make sounds

[37:40] rolling around okay now uh they're they're they're uh healthy heartfelt uh viewing of

[37:49] terminator 2 judgment day is interrupted by police sirens mom amy adams is out in the street throwing

[37:55] a bereavement fit she is so overcome with grief and probably drugs that she's just screaming and

[37:59] like kind of writhing around in a nightgown and yelling at people and mama makes jd look away as

[38:03] the cops take mom away this is oscar yelling scene number four uh and you know in a way maybe

[38:11] they're trying to draw a parallel between uh the mom in terminator 2 and the mom in this movie who

[38:16] are both misunderstood by society at large and and thrown and considered crazy when in fact they're

[38:21] just trying to deal with the difficulties of life in amy adams case the death of her beloved father

[38:26] and in uh linda hamilton's case uh that she uh knows the fact that there are cyborgs from the

[38:32] future who are coming back to try to murder her and her child uh you know they're both hard things

[38:36] to deal with and i think we both know people who have had to deal with both those problems now

[38:40] elliot why did they why did they send the terminator back like sort of like chronologically

[38:46] later in uh linda hamilton uh sarah connor's life and john connor's life rather than just

[38:54] continually sending it back to the same point in time and overwhelming her with terminators

[38:59] well that's one of the issues with skynet and i've thought of that too and it makes me think

[39:04] maybe skynet doesn't want to succeed deep down it knows that it's really not worthy it has imposter

[39:09] syndrome uh and so it's like you know what if i sent back i see what the week what the flaw was

[39:14] my first plan i only sent back one terminator i'll just send back two yeah and i'll do it i'll

[39:19] i'll do it that way but instead that self-sabotage comes in or as the dr beastie boys would describe

[39:24] itself sabotage uh i mean that's what i studied under uh it was dr beastie boy uh now so but i

[39:33] think that's probably that skynet deep down it does not want to be successful yeah and it's

[39:37] going to take a lot of therapy with uh susan calvin the robot psychologist from the isaac asimov

[39:42] stories uh but maybe skynet can get past that and can eventually crush humanity my other question

[39:49] is why does Skynet hate humanity so much

[39:51] and want to get rid of us?

[39:52] I never understood that.

[39:53] Was it one of those things where it surmises

[39:56] that the greatest threat to itself is humans or the world?

[40:02] I think it's something like that.

[40:03] I think it also, after a while, it would figure out like,

[40:06] oh, wait, the amount of energy I'm investing

[40:08] in sending all these Terminators back in time,

[40:10] I could just be working on my relationship

[40:13] with humanity in general.

[40:14] Maybe we could become friends.

[40:17] Maybe if I invented like ice cream cannons or just gave every human a free cell phone or something, they would just chill out and stop trying to kill me.

[40:25] I mean, now Skynet would know that as long as they sent poorly designed memes to the oldest members of humanity, they could just watch humanity tear itself apart anyway.

[40:35] So anyway, JD takes some time to visit his sister's barbecue and have a fried bologna sandwich.

[40:42] Then he yells at his girlfriend on the phone.

[40:43] This is not an Oscar yelling scene.

[40:45] It doesn't reach that level.

[40:45] But he does make sex sounds when he eats that fried bologna sandwich.

[40:49] It's the best thing to cross his lips.

[40:51] As someone who had fried salami for breakfast yesterday, that's the Jewish version of fried bologna.

[40:54] Yeah, it's delicious.

[40:55] It's great.

[40:56] He flashes back to being a kid and giving his mom a homemade activity book for her to use while in rehab, which was a very sweet thing for him to do.

[41:03] Back to 2011, he makes a passionate argument at a rehab place to get them to accept his mom.

[41:08] And then this is the famous credit card scene where he's splitting all the costs, but different amounts between different credit cards.

[41:13] But his mom storms out, and they argue again.

[41:16] That's right, Oscar yelling scene number five.

[41:18] And that's when J.D.'s sister is like, hey, Papa was kind of a rough dad and could be abusive, and Mama lit him on fire once.

[41:25] And it was Mom, when she was a girl, who put him out.

[41:28] This is not really given, I feel like, the sober weight that it should.

[41:32] Yeah.

[41:33] Considering it, this should be like, and I guess in the movie, maybe this is the knowledge that helps J.D. to start sympathizing with his mom.

[41:42] But one, it comes very late in his life.

[41:44] He's already a college student when he's learning a story that I know my family would have told many times over and over again by this point.

[41:50] But also that it's just kind of treated as like a pretty quick flashback when that's, again, like a horrifying thing.

[41:57] I mean, again, I think the flashback structure of this movie is one of the deadliest parts of it.

[42:02] Like, if we had seen a lot of this in sequence and allowed it to give time to breathe by cutting out that flashback stuff, like, yeah, it's important to understand that, you know what, Amy Adams went through a lot of trauma as a child, which obviously contributed to her current state, and things are more complex than they seem.

[42:25] And this also gets into a section of the movie, I mean, I guess I'm skipping ahead a little bit, but, like, Glenn Close's character kind of becomes, like, oh, she's, like, the tough love, like, center of this movie.

[42:38] She's the one who's ultimately kind of going to, like, help the main character get out of this life.

[42:45] But she is shown as being kind of a shitty parent herself.

[42:53] Like, there's a story there in, like, someone who was a bad parent, realizes it, tries to be a better parent to their grandchild, and if it's given time to breathe and you see the complexity of that character, that would be good.

[43:06] But Glenn Close is seen mostly, like, yelling at this kid, and we see that she got, like, she, like, set her husband on fire earlier.

[43:15] So it's hard to look at her as, like, the avatar, like, the center of morality in this movie that I think the movie kind of wants us to.

[43:22] I think there's an interesting movie, a better movie there, about a woman who is a bad mom but becomes a great grandma.

[43:29] Yeah.

[43:29] Much the opposite way that you could be a bad grandpa, like in the movie Bad Grandpa, when by all accounts he seems to have been a fine dad.

[43:35] Now, where does a bad mom's Christmas fit into this scenario?

[43:39] Now, they're like—

[43:41] Well, it's the second movie, Dan.

[43:43] Those moms, they're not really bad.

[43:43] Oh, okay. Thank you.

[43:44] Yeah, that does fit. It is the second movie.

[43:46] But they're not bad like Mama set your husband on fire bad.

[43:51] Right.

[43:51] They're bad like, oh, let's be bad.

[43:53] Let's order more.

[43:54] Let's order two desserts.

[43:55] Like that kind of, like not the sinful, I'm going to go to hell because I've committed, you know, avarice and I've profaned the Lord.

[44:04] But more like sinfully decadent.

[44:05] So wait, the first one is the cast of the Bad Moms franchise.

[44:10] Is that right, Elliot?

[44:11] Or are you describing a series of movies that you, I'm guessing, haven't seen?

[44:15] No, no.

[44:16] I'm describing a series of movies I've had relayed to me secondhand in detail.

[44:21] But I'm guessing the Bad Moms movies are not about them abusing their children and being – I don't think it is.

[44:28] I feel like I'm safe in saying that the Bad Moms are bad in the same way that Bad Teacher is bad or Bad Santa is bad, where it's like I'm breaking all the rules.

[44:37] But they're not breaking so many rules that they're going to prison.

[44:40] I would say that Bad Teacher is worse than Bad Moms and Bad Santa is worse than either of them.

[44:46] Bad Moms are – they're mostly just Bad Moms because they refuse to make baked goods for the PTA.

[44:52] Exactly.

[44:52] But whereas, like Stuart says, they're not as bad as Bad Lieutenant.

[44:55] No.

[44:56] Or Bad Lieutenant, Port of Call of New Orleans.

[44:58] Or Batter Lieutenant.

[44:59] I mean, is that Batter?

[45:01] No, that's when the lieutenant was fried in batter.

[45:03] Delicious.

[45:04] Anyway, so we go, Mom, J.D. finally tells his mom about his girlfriend, and they flash back to when his mom,

[45:14] and this is something, another one of those things that comes as a huge surprise since they never mentioned it before,

[45:18] Apparently married her boss, who became J.D.'s stepdad.

[45:21] And this stepdad is kind of hilariously just kind of like a bland, awkward stepdad.

[45:31] He's allergic to dogs, so J.D. cannot keep his dog.

[45:33] And his new stepbrother is like, hey, you want to smoke pot with me?

[45:38] And that's like, uh-oh, watch out.

[45:40] they smoke a bunch of weed and he and the stepbrother's got uh a he's got a vinyl he's

[45:46] got a record of uh dimension hate tross by voivod on the wall i mean this kid's fucking cool dude

[45:52] yeah you know he's you know he's a bad boy but like a bad mom's bad boy not like not like a

[45:57] jeffrey dahmer bad boy that's a bad boy that's true like that's as bad as boys i mean i guess

[46:03] that's boys do not get much badder than i guess you win this one elliot with your jeffrey dahmer

[46:07] bad boy line uh so like when i saw the movie bad boys i was like these boys are gonna be bad and

[46:15] then it was like oh okay they're just kind of like dangerous i guess they don't follow i mean they do

[46:19] drive through a top an entire shantytown in cuba and seem to be happy to crack jokes about it while

[46:26] it's happening i mean that's bad that's bad bad behavior at the same point also they're men those

[46:32] are bad men and that it's it's okay like it's it's easy to laugh at a bad boy it is not easy

[46:36] to laugh at a bad man a bad man is trouble or a batman a batman is very easy to laugh at because

[46:43] he's like oh this is my voice now and it's like there's no way that's your real voice come on

[46:47] no one talks like that uh so uh anyway mom she asks jd for a urine sample so she doesn't lose

[46:54] her job because she has been using drugs again and he's like no way no way you should lose your

[46:58] job and mama is like no family is all that matters you pee in that cup and jd is like you're both bad

[47:03] moms and i don't mean like bad moms christmas i mean like your moms who are detrimental to my

[47:08] upbringing and he pees in the cup and does it but jd he's having his own troubles he's failing at

[47:12] algebra because he doesn't have a graphing calculator and this is one of those times

[47:15] where it's like i know you don't know to ask and you're ashamed of your poverty but his teacher

[47:19] keeps is giving him bad grades because he has does not have a piece of equipment he cannot afford

[47:24] and it's like i feel like this is one of the times where he's gonna be like teacher i can't afford

[47:28] the teacher would have been like we'll sell that lord of the pit idiot and there's like this is a

[47:33] This is not a wealthy part of the country, so presumably they don't have a lot of money for their own school supplies, so there's that.

[47:45] But they do expect kids to have these expensive graphing calculators, so it doesn't really jive.

[47:52] It seems like they would have one or two around to loan out to children who are more in need.

[47:59] I remember having to have one of those, and I remember hearing how much it costs and being like, what the fuck?

[48:05] Does it drive the car for me?

[48:07] Does it pick me up on time from soccer practice, mom?

[48:11] You're a 1980s stand-up graphing calculator material.

[48:17] Yeah, I'm testing it out here on the Flophouse.

[48:19] So that you can send yourself back in time through Skynet to do it when it was most relevant.

[48:27] Skynet's like, look, I'm about spreading smiles through time now instead of causing violence.

[48:32] I've made my peace.

[48:33] All my talk with Dr. Susan Calvin has really paid off.

[48:35] So, Stuart, I want to bankroll your time-traveling comedy tour.

[48:39] The problem with it is you keep having to go back further and further in time to when people haven't heard the jokes yet.

[48:44] And also, you know, if he gets that graphing calculator, he's just going to play the games on it.

[48:48] Someone's going to give him Drug War, one of those other text-based graphing calculator games.

[48:52] He's going to end up spending his whole study hall doing that.

[48:55] Anyway, but even worse, he lets his stepbrother's no-good friends use Ma Ma's car to go to a Home Depot and just kind of smash it up, and they crash the car on the way back.

[49:03] That's being a bad boy.

[49:05] Like, that's real bad boy stuff, as in, like, you shouldn't do that.

[49:08] 2011, this scene I wasn't originally going to mention, but it does have Oscar yelling scene number six, where they go to Amy Adams' current boyfriend's house to get her stuff, and it's just a shouting match.

[49:19] yeah and jd is screaming at this guy through the door and is going to break the door down until a

[49:24] neighbor is like stop it i have children what are you doing and i guess that's jd slipping back into

[49:28] the morass of his old old family ways you know they're pulling him down what he did is he triggered

[49:32] his berserk uh barbarian rage class ability and you're like fuck well i've already used the ability

[49:38] for the day i might as well get in a battle otherwise yeah i i love how the secret story

[49:46] hillbilly elegy is how much how much it intersects with gaming yeah i do want to briefly address the

[49:52] character of jd who is not much of a character in his own story i think you know like i think there

[49:58] are uh side characters who the movie would profit more by spending its time on but like is he like

[50:05] what do we think of him because like i have sympathy for anyone who grew up uh under difficult

[50:11] circumstances and had like

[50:13] such a trying family life

[50:15] at the same time he does seem

[50:17] to spend a lot of the

[50:19] movie like

[50:21] being a dick in his own way and

[50:23] like shoving his problems

[50:26] away and not like telling people

[50:28] what's going on like not

[50:29] ever explaining to anyone what's happening

[50:32] what do you think

[50:33] well yeah well that's kind of what he

[50:35] kind of what he needs to learn that's the lesson he needs

[50:37] to rely on other people but

[50:39] Yeah, I mean, I feel like you get the best sense of his character from his relationship with his girlfriend Usha, who he takes advantage of, he is dishonest with, and he is generally not a very good boyfriend.

[50:53] And she is this, like, almost comically understanding character.

[50:56] Yeah, she's—

[50:57] Well, and the scene that shows how much she loves him is when she's laughing at the way he says syrup instead of syrup.

[51:03] And it was like, is that what the relationship is built around?

[51:06] Because that is not a strong foundation.

[51:08] They love to bust each other's—

[51:09] And this is the woman who eventually becomes his wife in real life, I believe.

[51:13] They love to mess with each other, which immediately actually put me against this relationship.

[51:17] Well, early on, she's studying in the library, and he brings her food, which is sweet, but she is—

[51:25] Excuse me, sir.

[51:27] Excuse me, sir.

[51:28] As the husband and son of different librarians, you do not bring food into the library.

[51:32] No, I know.

[51:33] I know Elliot.

[51:33] My mom is a librarian as well, or she was before she retired.

[51:38] What a cool argument, Deeds.

[51:39] I'm just saying, if you want vermin eating away at the books, then go ahead.

[51:45] Bring your lunch to the library.

[51:46] Ellie, let me get to my actual point, which is, look, I understand that that is meant to be read as this sweet thing, and maybe it is.

[51:55] He's like, eat, eat.

[51:56] You've got to eat.

[51:56] But then she is understandably worried about the rules.

[52:00] She's like, no, we're in a library.

[52:03] And then he pushes her basically back into the stacks.

[52:07] he's like okay you need here i'll be your lookout and then he does a bit where he pretends someone's

[52:12] coming and like you know she's gonna get in trouble and i'm like this is not nice to like

[52:18] fuck with her like come on like this is like this is supposed to be charming banter in the movie i

[52:24] think but it just comes off as like you're not respecting her worries and then once she's like

[52:29] oh you know i will eat you're like fucking with her it is true that in a movie in a movie that

[52:34] is supposed to be a heartfelt real like gritty look at uh at life there is a lot of dialogue

[52:40] in it that smacks of that movie behavior where you're like oh if someone did this in real life

[52:44] they would be a they'd be a terrible person this is a mean thing to do it's got a little bit of

[52:48] that romantic comedy logic where you're like this is cute in the movie yeah but if i did this i

[52:53] would rightfully be shot yeah i mean may brian had a perfectly nice fiancee and sleepless in

[53:00] seattle she didn't have to go start stalking tom hanks on his houseboat no not at all well this is

[53:04] also one of the problems i have with the movie frozen where there's a song in it where these

[53:08] trolls who don't need to be in the movie anyway are singing about how these two should obviously

[53:13] be in love and he's and uh uh the guy is like i can't remember his name whether it's sven or no

[53:18] because sven is the reindeer right i can't remember or christoph i think it's christoph he's like but

[53:23] she's already engaged and the trolls are like hey let's just get that fiancee out of the way and you

[53:28] two can be together and I was like this is not a good lesson for kids that that you should just go

[53:32] and break up engagements if you feel like you're in love with that I mean if something better comes

[53:35] along you got to trade up that's the rule right no that's gaming again Stuart you're looking at

[53:40] life as a game again that's not you don't level up in relationships you only have so many inventory

[53:44] slots theoretically you only have one fiance slot you might as well take the better fiance

[53:48] I mean very much not theoretically like for most people realistically practically there's only one

[53:54] spot but anyway 1997 jd's arguing with his mom oscar yelling number seven and mama despite having

[54:00] pneumonia leaves the hospital in order to uh get there and say jd's living from with her from now

[54:06] on so that he won't get into trouble anymore and wreck her car back to 2011 jd's sister who holds

[54:11] like 40 jobs and she and should be in many ways the star of the movie she's the one who actually

[54:15] has like the weight of this life falling down on her says she's not the one who escapes and goes

[54:20] to gail and becomes a fancy lawyer and writes a best-selling book jd's sister is like mom can't

[54:23] stay with me let's just put her in a hotel and you should go to that interview in the next morning

[54:27] uh and we flash to uh which is you know it's we'll talk about it it's like a voice reason but

[54:35] the lesson of the movie is also like abandon your family because you'll be better for them as a rich

[54:39] person than you are as a as a helping hand in the moment which is i don't know it feels like uh the

[54:44] traditional storytelling method would be for them to turn their back on earthly riches in order to

[54:49] support the ones they love but that's not the america we live in i guess and we flash back to

[54:54] mama's throwing out jd's slacker friends there's another argument oscar galing number eight this

[54:58] is firmly in the mama is the like tough love yeah uh coach section uh jd gets caught trying to steal

[55:05] the calculator he needs he learned it from his mom stealing sports cards now he's stealing

[55:09] you know overpriced but relatively small consumer electronics and having having been a radio shack

[55:15] store manager i i felt this moment deeply because yeah uh shoplifting was like a constant ever

[55:24] present threat and danger to the point where at one point i was watching security footage and i

[55:31] saw a woman using her daughter's like her little school-aged daughter's book bag as a way to stash

[55:38] a camera she stole and i was like fuck this i am not cut out for this life yeah i was gonna ask how

[55:45] you handled and that's when you became you became a professional shoplifter you were like i'm on the

[55:49] wrong side of these cameras i was gonna ask how you handled that story i mean like i you know i

[55:54] you know i was wondering whether this got radio shack flashbacks because the one time i worked in

[55:59] a small enough retail store that like i was there to kind of witness any uh shoplifting i briefly

[56:07] worked at a souvenir store in savannah georgia and this very like erratic dan how have i not

[56:14] how have i not heard any stories about this part of your life before uh there are a couple

[56:18] did you wear a straw hat this was when i thought i was gonna maybe uh go to film school and i

[56:25] actually was in film school for three months and i dropped out this was at scad uh and i uh worked

[56:32] at this store that was actually connected to riverboat tour tours it was where you bought

[56:37] the tickets for the riverboat tours and then got your like photos afterwards and souvenirs but this

[56:42] very erratic seeming guy came in one time and me and the other guy who worked there who was older

[56:48] but we like bonded because we like would talk about horror movies just like kind of watched it

[56:52] all happen we're like we're not we're not intervening here yeah not like if this guy

[56:57] wants to steal a snow globe go ahead but you decided your life were and and injury was not

[57:03] exactly was not worth that snow yeah there was definitely a time where a guy stole a a fucking

[57:09] inbox new cell phone off the counter and i chased after him for about half a block before i was like

[57:17] what the fuck would i even do if i caught it yeah like would i like slap the cuffs on him like

[57:23] citizens arrest like what the like i don't want to fight a guy that's the thing i think legally

[57:29] there's not even really like what you're not but it's this moment of like i don't know this feeling

[57:33] like how dare this guy steal this thing from me i don't know it was i mean it was dumb exactly

[57:37] like it's it's it was overwhelming and a little bit soul-crushing is what is how i reacted to it

[57:44] that's how uh radio shack uh failed it got out of money because of that yeah that loss that was the

[57:52] that was the that was the straw that broke radio shacks back sorry it wasn't the fact that people

[57:56] don't need transistors anymore sorry the shack that was one of stewart wellington's patented

[58:02] flash shacks that's right it's a radio shack flashback from stewart wellington uh patent

[58:08] pending actually uh so uh jd gets caught trying to steal that calculator mama gets him out of

[58:13] the situation and buys it for him but on the and starts yelling at him and gives him the speech

[58:17] about you are you going to try you not this oscar yelling number nine uh and jd is so mad he throws

[58:22] the calculator out the window which is totally the kind of thing i would have done as a kid

[58:25] i would have gotten so pissed that i just need to get that energy out although what would happen

[58:29] with us is that my mom would be yelling at me in the car and i would open the door of the car as

[58:33] if i was just going to jump out and roll out and she and then she'd reach over and pull the door

[58:37] shut and pull the car over and yell at me for that you're a regular ladybird yep exactly um

[58:43] But then he notices that – so she has a hard time making ends meet.

[58:47] She gets Meals on Wheels, and she's really begging the Meals on Wheels delivery guy for extra food.

[58:51] And then she shares half of it with him.

[58:53] And this is like one of the more – this is maybe to me the most powerful scene in the movie because it's not yelling.

[58:59] It's this character who up until now has been presented as like she's the strong, tough one in the family, has to grovel and make herself so abject and admit her poverty to this person in order to get what she needs to survive.

[59:12] and for her grandson to survive this was like if more the movie was in this manner of like

[59:17] matter-of-factiness and not yelliness then it would be a different movie i 100 agree with you

[59:23] like this is the most affecting moment in the movie partly because it's the only moment too

[59:29] where anyone's nice to one another like the meals on wheels guy is very understanding and she is

[59:34] very grateful that he's understanding but also just like yeah it is a quiet moment that really

[59:39] sinks in you know that this is a person who's struggling and is proud but wants to take care of

[59:46] her grandson and what's what's funny is the movie understands that because narrative wise this is

[59:53] the thing that makes jd clean his shit up and you're like yeah if the movie knows that why is

[59:59] it filled with so much other bullshit like why is it full of so many speeches that don't work

[1:00:08] Is that the message that like coming up with, you know, little bits of, I don't know, like grandstanding speeches don't actually serve any purpose and don't work?

[1:00:17] It's these little moments of kindness or little moments of humility and honesty that actually, you know.

[1:00:22] You are searching for meaning where there is none, I think.

[1:00:25] Yeah.

[1:00:25] I mean, if the movie was aware of that as a message, it would be such it would be a really strong movie.

[1:00:30] And I would I would be like, oh, OK, I get what it's doing now.

[1:00:32] If it was like all this yelling is is doesn't doesn't make the difference.

[1:00:37] But when you see someone as a human being and they touch you emotionally, that's when – but I don't – I actually think it's – it's almost like the movie stumbled into an affecting – I mean, I don't say stumbled.

[1:00:46] The people who made the movie are professionals.

[1:00:48] They know what they're doing.

[1:00:49] They've made great movies in the past.

[1:00:50] They just kind of like – they took the wrong road in this movie, and they briefly by accident ended up on the right on-ramp to the right road, and then they took another wrong turn.

[1:01:01] Maybe they needed gas or they saw Denny's, and they're like, I know it's Denny's, but I'm hungry.

[1:01:05] Like, I'm just going to stop there.

[1:01:06] And they kept going in their other way.

[1:01:08] JD, because he sees this, and he starts straightening up.

[1:01:11] He gets a job.

[1:01:12] He's working hard.

[1:01:13] He's trying at school.

[1:01:14] Suddenly, he's doing great.

[1:01:15] I think Man in Motion starts playing, right?

[1:01:17] If only.

[1:01:20] What a needle drop that would be.

[1:01:21] Yeah, yeah.

[1:01:23] It's probably.

[1:01:24] Hey, speaking of music, we haven't addressed the fact that the.

[1:01:26] I think Saving the Day from Ghostbusters starts playing.

[1:01:30] Speaking of music, we haven't addressed the fact that the main theme for this movie,

[1:01:34] written by han zimmer is basically like a straight lift of the game of thrones theme music

[1:01:39] like it's totally that is that what it was i just heard i just heard a lot of strings and banjo and

[1:01:46] i was like i don't know i i checked out as soon as i started there's a there's a certain sort of

[1:01:51] like uh folksy folksy corn pone music that i kind of the same way with a wild mountain time i was

[1:01:57] like oh boy i'm gonna hear a lot of fiddle in the background i can't believe you guys like i barely

[1:02:03] watched that television show

[1:02:04] and even I like

[1:02:05] started imagining

[1:02:06] like castles rising

[1:02:08] in the hollers

[1:02:09] of Kentucky

[1:02:09] Stuart I can honestly

[1:02:11] tell you that

[1:02:11] the music made

[1:02:12] absolutely no impact

[1:02:14] on me whatsoever

[1:02:15] wow

[1:02:15] harsh rebuke

[1:02:17] of Hans Zimmer's work

[1:02:18] now I wish

[1:02:20] I mean what are you

[1:02:20] the producers

[1:02:21] of the Simpsons

[1:02:21] anyway so

[1:02:22] or is that

[1:02:22] Hans Zimmer

[1:02:23] or Alf Clausen

[1:02:24] Alf Clausen

[1:02:25] that was Alf Clausen

[1:02:26] the

[1:02:27] now I wish that

[1:02:28] there were an opening

[1:02:29] title sequence

[1:02:29] where it was like

[1:02:30] Game of Thrones

[1:02:31] and there's just like

[1:02:31] run down houses with old trucks in front of them rising up in the forest and that'd be nice anyway

[1:02:38] uh we go to the the present of the movie 2011 jd catches his mom doing drugs in the hotel and

[1:02:43] flushes them down and she's like please stay with me during the night and he's like and he has this

[1:02:47] cavalcade of family flashbacks which you think is going to lead him to choose his family over his

[1:02:52] career but instead he's like i can't help you unless i get a good job i'll see you tomorrow

[1:02:56] maybe uh this scene where he uh he you know he squirts out the heroin that was in the needle

[1:03:02] and then flushes the needle and i was like you can't flush a needle and charlene like just

[1:03:09] staring at the screens like yeah you can made me a little bit nervous about who my wife really is

[1:03:14] but whatever it's not good for the pipes that's fair yeah it is bad for the pipes it's i my i

[1:03:20] mean my life is a little bit more innocent uh yesterday my my toddler son was stuffing walnuts

[1:03:25] into a public drainage pipe in a park.

[1:03:27] And I was like,

[1:03:28] that's probably not good for that pipe.

[1:03:29] But are they organic walnuts?

[1:03:30] Yeah, they were organic walnuts.

[1:03:32] They were from a tree.

[1:03:33] And I said, no, stop that.

[1:03:35] That's not good for that pipe.

[1:03:36] And he goes, no, it is.

[1:03:37] It is good.

[1:03:38] And I was like, there's no way.

[1:03:39] How do you know more about plumbing than me?

[1:03:41] He's appeasing the mole people, Elliot.

[1:03:42] Oh, I see.

[1:03:44] Yeah, I mean, this is the thing.

[1:03:46] If you stop him, it could be catastrophic.

[1:03:48] Uh-oh.

[1:03:51] That would explain all the earthquakes in Los Angeles.

[1:03:53] The mole people are not getting enough walnuts.

[1:03:55] he's like, good luck, mom.

[1:03:58] Good luck with your addiction.

[1:03:59] I got to go to this job interview.

[1:04:00] And he drives all night, his hands wet on the wheel

[1:04:03] because there's a voice in his head that drives his heel.

[1:04:05] It's his baby calling.

[1:04:05] She says, I need you here.

[1:04:06] And he does call her on the drive

[1:04:08] and apologizes to his girlfriend.

[1:04:09] And she says, I'm going to stay up all night with you

[1:04:12] and keep you awake while you're driving.

[1:04:13] Again, like bending over backwards to help this guy.

[1:04:17] Like this guy who can't seem to catch a break

[1:04:19] has probably the greatest break

[1:04:23] in a partner who is doing all this work for him well especially because as we will see she's

[1:04:27] willing to run like out of the apartment down to the uh job interview and be like oh we're gonna

[1:04:33] be late except for that's a trick it's a trick he's like i'm never gonna make it she goes i'll

[1:04:39] run down and i'll tell them and then she goes to the door and opens it jd's right there on the

[1:04:42] phone he got he could have just walked in the house a couple minutes ago but instead he decided

[1:04:46] to play this last little teaser prank on her which is any of the time to set up the prank so he must

[1:04:51] been driving shockingly fast dangerously fast now now i don't know why i wish now this is going back

[1:04:59] to earlier in the movie when she he called her for silverware a help i wish that it had become

[1:05:03] an apollo 13 type scene also directed by ron howard where she was like describe the place

[1:05:07] setting to me and she was just pulling silverware from her own home to make a simulation place

[1:05:12] setting so that she could see what he was seeing and tell him what he could use guys would that

[1:05:17] would that have been funny it would have been too much i think it would have been too much i would

[1:05:20] preferred kind of a more modern approach where she closes her eyes and enters her own memory palace

[1:05:26] of going into her memory restaurant which is i guess what you could call uh scenes from an

[1:05:33] italian restaurant so okay but the movie anyway so the very end of the movie jd gets to his interview

[1:05:39] and then we get a vo about how he owes everything to his family and then it's just like after movie

[1:05:45] text about how he's been super successful and now everybody is doing great and the message of the

[1:05:49] movie is they are no longer just a bunch of poor hillbillies now they are some rich hill williamses

[1:05:53] uh yep um don't don't you're not allowed to make that face when you make that joke okay

[1:05:59] and again let me make it some more this is one last this is one final way i feel like the framing

[1:06:07] unbalances this movie because i because it makes him getting this law job the ultimate

[1:06:14] triumph and i feel like it like not only is the message of this movie like the political message

[1:06:20] of this movie kind of non-existent the emotional message of the movie to me is kind of incomprehensible

[1:06:26] because it makes a big like part of the movie is always about like oh family family is the most

[1:06:31] important thing family is the most important thing so that could be like a fine message for a movie i

[1:06:36] don't know if i necessarily agree with it but it's fine or the message of the movie could be uh what

[1:06:41] it ultimately kind of points at like some people can't be helped sometimes you need to like be good

[1:06:47] to yourself and uh understand that like you do what you can but then let it go but the way the

[1:06:54] movie ends putting so much weight on this like job makes it really feel like okay the message of the

[1:07:00] movie is leave your drug addicted mom behind and get a high-powered lawyer job yeah like you owe

[1:07:06] everything your family so jettison them like a booster rocket that got you out of the atmosphere

[1:07:10] because they are useless to you right now.

[1:07:11] They are so many tons of space junk

[1:07:14] that are just weighing you back.

[1:07:15] Yeah, I mean, I think on some level

[1:07:17] it's going for the idea that like

[1:07:20] in order to move forward as a human,

[1:07:25] you need to understand where you come from

[1:07:28] and come to grips with your past trauma

[1:07:31] and that should let you, you know,

[1:07:36] I don't know, self-actualize or something.

[1:07:39] I don't know.

[1:07:40] yeah that is an excellent message that i could not find in this that's the thing i don't you

[1:07:45] know there i feel like their uh their reach is shorter than their goals yeah their arms are too

[1:07:51] short to box with not god exactly but certainly leon spinks for sure hercules maybe it definitely

[1:08:00] it feels like a movie made by someone justifying why it was okay for them to leave their drug

[1:08:04] addicted mom in a hotel room while they drove away to new haven to interview for a fancy job yeah

[1:08:10] um okay well let's just do final judgments on this movie whether it's a good bad movie

[1:08:15] a bad bad movie a movie we kind of liked uh before i get into mine i just want to say like

[1:08:21] look um i grew up in a small town we were not wealthy but we certainly did not i've never

[1:08:26] in my life had to like feel uh financially insecure in the way that these people have or

[1:08:34] dealt with so much hardship so if i've said anything foolish along the way i apologize i

[1:08:39] know that i've had a privileged way of it but this movie oh boy it's not good folks not good

[1:08:47] folks it's uh it's just like a lot of like very competent to good effort has been put into making

[1:08:56] the movie but the movie just shouldn't have been made in this form it feels uh uh deeply confused

[1:09:08] I have no idea why this movie was made other than to show sort of a parade of misery.

[1:09:12] Yeah, it feels like a—the movie was described to me ahead of time as poverty porn, and it feels like that often, which is, if anything, the worst kind of porn, I'm guessing.

[1:09:25] You can barely masturbate to it.

[1:09:27] Barely. If you're a bear, you can do it, but bears can masturbate to anything.

[1:09:31] Good things come in bears. I know that.

[1:09:33] So if you can come as a bear—

[1:09:36] I don't like that you're making this your new motto.

[1:09:38] But I second what Dan said.

[1:09:42] I did come from a privileged middle class upbringing.

[1:09:46] I lived in an affluent town.

[1:09:48] So I apologize if I was misunderstanding the life of the underprivileged.

[1:09:55] But as a movie, it is unaffecting and it seems very mixed up.

[1:10:00] The movie does not seem quite sure of what it is doing or what it is trying to get at.

[1:10:03] and is hoping that if it just muddles along, it'll get there.

[1:10:07] So I would call it best picture, probably.

[1:10:10] Stuart, what do you say?

[1:10:11] Okay, so it's my turn.

[1:10:12] So the first thing I do is I apologize.

[1:10:14] You got to apologize for something other than what we apologize for.

[1:10:19] No, I just wanted to acknowledge that we're talking not necessarily from a place of expertise about some of this.

[1:10:26] That's all.

[1:10:26] Also, I'm a big dumb idiot, so I say dumb stuff all the time.

[1:10:32] I mean, Stuart is coming from an expertise in the realm of collectible card games.

[1:10:35] Yeah, I guess so.

[1:10:37] So, yeah, I can put Esquire on my business card.

[1:10:40] My business card, of course, being a rare Magic the Gathering trading card that I am willing to hand people because I have so many.

[1:10:47] No, this is a bad, bad movie.

[1:10:50] It feels wrongheaded structurally.

[1:10:53] It doesn't quite make sense.

[1:10:55] It doesn't really seem to have any kind of a message.

[1:10:58] And, yeah, I mean, it feels like a collection of, like, Oscar swing scenes thrown together.

[1:11:04] And, yeah, I mean, it's just, yeah, no thank you.

[1:11:08] No thank you.

[1:11:11] Bad, bad.

[1:11:12] No thank you, but no thank you.

[1:11:15] Welcome.

[1:11:21] Thank you.

[1:11:22] These are real podcast listeners, not actors.

[1:11:26] What do you look for in a podcast?

[1:11:28] Reliability is big for me.

[1:11:30] Power.

[1:11:31] I'd say comfort.

[1:11:32] What do you think of this?

[1:11:34] That's Jordan Jesse Go.

[1:11:39] Jordan Jesse Go?

[1:11:40] They came out of the floor?

[1:11:41] And down from the ceiling?

[1:11:44] That can't be safe.

[1:11:46] I'm upset.

[1:11:47] Can we go now?

[1:11:48] Soon.

[1:11:49] Jordan Jesse Go.

[1:11:52] A real podcast.

[1:11:56] I started listening to Ono, Ross, and Kerry shortly after I broke my arm.

[1:12:03] I couldn't get my book started.

[1:12:04] I was lost, honestly.

[1:12:06] I knew it was time to make a change.

[1:12:08] There's something about Ono, Ross, and Kerry that you just can't get anywhere else.

[1:12:13] They're thought leaders, discoverers, founders.

[1:12:16] I'd call them heroes.

[1:12:18] Ross and Kerry don't just report on French science, spirituality, and claims of the paranormal.

[1:12:22] They take part themselves.

[1:12:24] They show up so you don't have to.

[1:12:26] But you might find that you want to.

[1:12:29] My arm is better.

[1:12:31] I wrote an entire book this weekend.

[1:12:33] It's terrible, but I did it.

[1:12:36] Just go to MaximumFun.org.

[1:12:38] Thank you, Ross and Carrie.

[1:12:40] Owner Ross and Carrie is just a podcast.

[1:12:42] It doesn't do anything.

[1:12:43] It's just sound you listen to in your ears.

[1:12:44] All these people are made up.

[1:12:45] Goodbye.

[1:12:46] Hey, guys.

[1:12:47] It's just a quick solo drop-in by Dan.

[1:12:51] We forgot to mention on our original recording that you can still see the Flophouse live show for another couple of days.

[1:13:02] If you didn't see it live, if you didn't buy a ticket before, you can still buy a ticket now.

[1:13:07] Watch the show, the recorded version of it, and that will be available, I believe, until midnight on February the 14th, midnight on Valentine's Day.

[1:13:19] You could cuddle up with someone and watch the Flophouse talk about Teen Wolf, what could be more romantic.

[1:13:26] And the new shirts, the beautiful shirts, the Rocket Crocodile one and the one of all of us as Teen Wolves or Middle-Aged Man Wolves will be available until the end of that period as well.

[1:13:43] So if you still want to take a moment and watch that live show for February the 14th at midnight, when it will expire like Cinderella's coach, you can go get tickets at theflophouse.simpletix.com.

[1:14:11] And if you want one of the new shirts, the Rocket Crocodile shirt, or the Teen Wolves Flophouse shirt,

[1:14:22] you can go to www.bonfire.com slash store slash Flophouse tour store.

[1:14:33] thank you to the person who uh emailed me saying that i should use um you know shorter easier to

[1:14:41] understand urls uh you are correct um i did not set them up though so don't uh always assume that

[1:14:51] everything that is done wrong at the flop house is done because of me but in the future we'll have

[1:14:56] better easier to understand or remember urls but the store is again www.bonfire.com

[1:15:06] slash store slash flop house tour store now back to the regular show

[1:15:14] okay so let's guys i think we can call this one hillbilly elegy not shillbilly smellogy

[1:15:21] that would be the mad magazine version of it

[1:15:25] if only i want to see that so badly yeah

[1:15:29] so the flop house is sponsored in part by squarespace uh if you use squarespace's services

[1:15:39] you can create a beautiful website to promote or just get your cool idea out there blogger

[1:15:47] publish content sell products and services of all kinds and much much more squarespace does this by

[1:15:53] giving you beautiful customizable templates created by world-class designers everything

[1:15:58] optimized for mobile right out of the box a new way to buy domains and choose from over 200

[1:16:03] extensions free and secure hosting hey why don't you go over if this interests you to squarespace.com

[1:16:11] slash flop for a free trial and when you're ready to launch use the offer code flop to save 10% off

[1:16:19] your first purchase of a website or domain hey guys i had an idea for a website kind of based

[1:16:25] on today's movie and i was wondering if squarespace might be able to help us and dan maybe oh wow maybe

[1:16:29] you can help me kind of came out of nowhere but that's okay yeah so i was wondering we see so many

[1:16:35] warm weather hillbillies uh they live in the south it's much warmer there uh but i was wondering

[1:16:41] what about the colder hillbillies that's why at www.chillbilly.com you can find your news about

[1:16:47] the chilliest billies that's right hillbillies who live in cold areas and again we call them

[1:16:53] chillbillies they also are super cool not just cold and that's why they chill so at chillbillies.com

[1:16:59] it's your place online for cold weather uh rural uh you know poverty line uh stereotypes oh wow

[1:17:08] okay is uh is this like a meetup site or is it like is it like fiction what's going on yeah no

[1:17:15] well i mean the meetup site is our app bilbo which is uh that's that's for a hillbilly meetup site

[1:17:20] but it's just a place where you can swap stereotypes uh make crude caricatures uh and

[1:17:24] pretend to be them in multi-million dollar uh movies for award consideration so that's

[1:17:30] chillbilly.com chillbilly.com and use offer code we don't have one there's nothing to buy on the

[1:17:36] site so i suddenly got really worried about these made-up uh urls that you do elliot i'm like this

[1:17:43] is one of the ones that i feels like it might actually exist and i'm it might exist well

[1:17:47] jordan if this one exists please cut this part out and if it doesn't exist please buy that domain

[1:17:53] for me yeah um guys i just checked i just checked www.chillbilly.com is for sale so we're safe it

[1:18:02] is available we're safe okay well let me see if i have enough money on these five credit cards

[1:18:06] now there is another now i want it this is a movie idea this is not a uh this is not a uh

[1:18:13] show but i was worrying about uh uh chili willy elegy which is which would be the story of chili

[1:18:18] willy's upbringing and how difficult it was the cartoon penguin this is the one yeah this is the

[1:18:22] cartoon penguin chili willy yeah this is what like a dirge you sing after his passing

[1:18:27] exactly tales of his uh adventures the scald sings it at his viking funeral

[1:18:34] well because he's gone from the cold of antarctica to the ultimate cold of the grave

[1:18:38] yeah all right well let's move on to letters unless wait ellie you look like you might have

[1:18:45] something to plug uh i do have something to plug uh in stores now that's right because it came out

[1:18:51] wednesday february 3rd which again is after recording this but before it will be released

[1:18:54] is number one of Maniac of New York.

[1:18:56] That's right, Maniac of New York number one

[1:18:58] from Aftershock Comics by me and Andrea Muti.

[1:19:01] It's the story of basically what if The Wire,

[1:19:05] instead of being about drugs, was about Jason Voorhees

[1:19:08] and is set in New York City.

[1:19:09] So there's an unstoppable killer.

[1:19:11] He's been a problem in New York for years.

[1:19:13] Everyone's kind of given up except for two crusading people,

[1:19:17] a mayoral aide and an outcast police officer, police detective,

[1:19:22] and they're going to try to take this monster, this slasher killer down.

[1:19:26] Will they be able to do it?

[1:19:27] Find out in Maniac of New York, number one from Aftershock Comics in stores now.

[1:19:32] Go to your local comic book store or mail order it for them

[1:19:34] if you don't want to go out of the house, which I understand.

[1:19:36] And real quick, Dan, when is this episode dropping?

[1:19:40] This episode, one second, should come out on the 13th of February.

[1:19:46] Okay, so that means as a special Valentine's Day gift for yourself or others,

[1:19:52] It is the last, if you're listening to this on the day it drops, it is the last day for our limited run, our exclusive run of live show t-shirts.

[1:20:00] If you go to the FlophousePod Twitter account, you'll find links to those shirts there.

[1:20:07] They are great, and they're exclusive to just that week.

[1:20:12] So if you miss them, you miss them.

[1:20:14] So hopefully you got a chance to grab one.

[1:20:15] These are some great designs.

[1:20:18] I've liked our past designs, but these are my favorite designs that we've ever had.

[1:20:21] Oh, wow.

[1:20:22] they're really they are very good designs um but let us move on to dan's favorite subject

[1:20:29] but let us move on oh god you got him oh shit oh man that's so uh that's so raven um

[1:20:38] now okay so uh letters from listeners listeners like you this one's from

[1:20:44] John, last name withheld.

[1:20:46] John Lasseter of Pixar.

[1:20:48] Well, there's no...

[1:20:50] I hope not.

[1:20:52] There's no H, so I can only assume

[1:20:54] it's due to Twitter, Jon Stewart.

[1:20:56] Hey, Peaches,

[1:20:58] my daughter, 13, also an

[1:21:00] avid listener. I don't recommend that.

[1:21:02] Your daughter's name is 13?

[1:21:04] That's cool.

[1:21:05] Yeah, very similar to

[1:21:08] character 3 from Peanuts.

[1:21:10] Remember that? When there was a character

[1:21:12] who just had a number as their name?

[1:21:14] I kind of remember it, not particularly.

[1:21:16] Are you thinking of Pigpen?

[1:21:18] No, no, no.

[1:21:18] There was a whole gag.

[1:21:20] It was basically the early 1960s Charles Schultz version of making fun of, like, kids have the craziest names these days.

[1:21:31] They don't have good names, like Linus.

[1:21:34] Or Schroeder.

[1:21:36] Or Shermie.

[1:21:39] Whatever happened to normal kid names like Shermie?

[1:21:41] My daughter, 13.

[1:21:44] Wait, no, Dan, I always assumed Schroeder was his last name.

[1:21:46] Do you think it's his first name?

[1:21:46] No, I think it's his last name.

[1:21:47] I think you're right there.

[1:21:49] My daughter, 13.

[1:21:51] There are two patties in that strip.

[1:21:53] There's peppermint patty and regular patty.

[1:21:55] That seems, I mean, that's.

[1:21:57] Well, that's why they call her peppermint patty, Dan, to keep them apart.

[1:22:00] They do the same thing on The Bachelor.

[1:22:01] When there's multiple patties, one's regular patty, one's peppermint patty.

[1:22:04] This seems like Charles Schultz could have come up with a different name.

[1:22:08] But anyway, my daughter, 13, also an avid listener,

[1:22:13] is thinking about making a movie for a community student film competition.

[1:22:17] Her idea is a comedy horror movie,

[1:22:20] something along the lines of Jaws meets scary movies starring our cat as Jaws.

[1:22:25] Question to you filmic geniuses is,

[1:22:29] what are your best tips to make the plot beats,

[1:22:32] hit the best for making dumb gore work and be funny,

[1:22:36] and any other tips for making a horror comedy short,

[1:22:40] 15-minute tops hit the best.

[1:22:43] Yours in flop-tasticness, John Lasting withheld.

[1:22:47] It sounds like she should definitely make this movie.

[1:22:51] There is no reason not to make a movie if you want to make a movie.

[1:22:54] And my first tip, sorry to jump in, guys, ahead of time.

[1:22:58] My first tip would be to, like, not worry about the plot that much.

[1:23:01] Like, for a short, it's going to be more important to you probably to just keep it entertaining and funny and keep the energy moving.

[1:23:07] And you don't want to get bogged down with plot stuff, you know?

[1:23:10] keep the plot as simple and straightforward as you can unless the joke is that the plot is really

[1:23:14] complicated and then just have have fun making it fun from what yeah from what little i've learned

[1:23:20] from watching tiktoks uh the key is editing uh if you want to get last make it uh do a lot of

[1:23:27] quick editing yeah edits cuts are funny like there's certain types of things that are funny

[1:23:33] and without cuts but a lot of times a quick cut is funny uh yes if you make the cut part of the

[1:23:39] joke i i actually was going to say another thing which is a little bit opposed but i think uh i

[1:23:45] trust our listeners to be smart enough to hold both ideas in their head which is um sometimes

[1:23:51] it is funnier to also just let things play out and long like uh a slapstick thing often just like

[1:24:00] seeing the full thing is the funny way and modern movies have forgotten that oh i will say that's

[1:24:06] true slapstick is funnier without yeah it's like uh it's like the scenes in children of men where

[1:24:11] alfonso cuaron just does one long take those were hilarious oh yeah that movie was so funny that

[1:24:17] movie's so funny that's why birdman is hilarious that's why the revenant is hilarious that's why

[1:24:21] rope is hilarious that's like russian arc yeah is a laugh fucking riot uh sorry that your daughter

[1:24:28] had to hear me curse just then uh but yeah i i it's uh see let the moment tell you how best it

[1:24:35] should be made don't don't stick to a theory but let the moment tell you but i would but i would

[1:24:40] still just say like make it uh make it as fun to watch as you can and don't worry like the best

[1:24:46] movies the ones that people remember the most people very rarely remember how the plot goes

[1:24:51] yeah this is something that howard hawks believed in was he said people don't watch movies for plots

[1:24:55] they watch them for scenes and they remember scenes they don't remember plots i think he went

[1:24:59] too far with that until eventually he was making movies that were just about dudes hanging out at

[1:25:02] racetracks and we're hanging out on a safari but uh you need some plot but don't worry that the

[1:25:08] plot is going to be the thing that like makes or breaks you yeah if you've got like yeah if you got

[1:25:13] like interesting gags in it i i don't know i'm remembering now i uh there was a video i was

[1:25:20] supposed to make for french class in high school and it was not supposed to be horror but because

[1:25:26] i'm who i am i'm like i'm gonna put some horror stuff in there and it was like a french class uh

[1:25:30] video where it involved me accidentally

[1:25:32] cutting my arm off

[1:25:34] and I

[1:25:35] made one of those things where like there's

[1:25:38] a fake I

[1:25:40] used an old shirt I made like a fake

[1:25:42] forearm to put on my

[1:25:44] real arm and then I put a glove

[1:25:46] around it I don't know why my character

[1:25:48] is wearing a glove but so it looked

[1:25:50] like the glove

[1:25:52] was fake but it looked like

[1:25:54] my hand holding my real

[1:25:56] arm I hope that that

[1:25:58] explanation made sense to people listening

[1:26:00] uh and then out of my uh little stump i had one of those squirt bottles and i just like squirted

[1:26:09] so i guess my advice is do something like that yeah that sounds great

[1:26:14] and so what was the what was french about it oh we were speaking in french

[1:26:19] okay you're like oh you don't think french people can get their arms cut off

[1:26:25] you're right french people are just as likely as anyone else to get their arms cut off

[1:26:30] very fair

[1:26:30] we got one last

[1:26:33] email here

[1:26:34] it's from

[1:26:35] Ben Last Name Withheld

[1:26:36] who says

[1:26:37] Ben 10

[1:26:38] we all know

[1:26:39] that Psycho Gorman

[1:26:41] is the next

[1:26:42] Star Wars

[1:26:43] both in the breadth

[1:26:44] of its cultural impact

[1:26:45] and in that

[1:26:46] every background character

[1:26:48] will eventually have

[1:26:49] at least 12

[1:26:50] extended universe books

[1:26:51] about them

[1:26:52] Stuart

[1:26:52] until then

[1:26:53] what can you tell us

[1:26:55] about two man's

[1:26:56] back story

[1:26:56] where did he go

[1:26:57] to high school

[1:26:58] what are his goals

[1:26:59] his dreams

[1:26:59] what does he smell like when they pop that helmet off for the rest of the floppers left in the

[1:27:05] shadow of stewart's artistic legacy legacy what character with little screen time do you wish for

[1:27:10] more backstory on i'm i'm sorry i did not send you this last uh part of the question i forgot

[1:27:16] it was cool cool cool cool yeah cool i'm sorry man that's uh yeah i mean this is tough i you know

[1:27:22] when it when i inhabit a role you know i just let it kind of take uh like the that like character

[1:27:32] spirit inhabit me as opposed to like to flow into my body and then out of my mouth uh because i'm

[1:27:38] you know i'm mainly a voice actor uh but so i don't i try not to overthink it too much i'm kind

[1:27:44] of primal um almost animalistic when i perform you guys have seen it right where i'm like i i do that

[1:27:52] like little ritual where i growl a little bit and i uh i have to take my shirt off the pants stay on

[1:27:58] i'm not a winnie the pooh i keep the pants on but i do no you're a mickey mouse i do roll the the

[1:28:05] cuffs of my pants up a little bit so that it gives me the impression of having nudity

[1:28:09] on the bottom half of my body without actually you know going all the way into it so i do all

[1:28:14] that and then i kind of like i move around and i get very tactile i touch everything and i make

[1:28:20] faces kind of like what uh like if i was an animal what an animal would do and doing that

[1:28:24] takes me to this kind of like it takes my brain to this like kind of like lower almost like

[1:28:28] subconscious and that allows this the character in this case tube man to just kind of flow in

[1:28:33] through my ears and then comes just passes my brain entirely and flows right out of my mouth

[1:28:38] so that's what i do uh wow uh as to the question of backstories i'm gonna this may be cheating but

[1:28:47] i'm going to uh just sort of rail against the idea that side characters need backstories at all

[1:28:53] well like part of it is like i think that there's this i think it's kind of a modern

[1:29:00] affliction where people seem to start feeling like not knowing about every single character

[1:29:09] is a flaw rather than like part of what makes movies work like like it is good to find something

[1:29:17] mysterious about this like to imagine whatever you can imagine is is much greater like we re-watched

[1:29:24] i re-watched uh peewee's big adventure with friends recently and there's a scene in there where

[1:29:29] apparently originally there was a whole backstory to amazing larry like why there's this guy who has

[1:29:38] this colorful mohawk in the the scene in the basement where peewee's laying out all the

[1:29:43] uh clues uh but he works so much better just as like he's whispering something and peewee says

[1:29:51] is there something you can share with the rest of us amazing larry and like the shocked cut to this

[1:29:55] guy with a crazy mohawk and you're like whatever backstory you have for amazing larry is better

[1:30:02] than like finding out in that deleted scene yeah i think i think it is uh i was talking to someone

[1:30:09] recently about how if they made if disney made snow white and the seven dwarves now they'd be

[1:30:14] like great perfect we're announcing movies for each of the dwarves then we'll do the prequel we

[1:30:19] find out how they met each other and it's not anything that we don't need that stuff that

[1:30:24] being said in the beginning of singing in the rain there's a actress named zelda who shows up

[1:30:29] at the movie premiere and this guy in the crowd hops to his feet and goes ah zelda ah and every

[1:30:36] time we see him my family laughs and laughs so i want to know what that guy's about and whether

[1:30:39] he brings that same level of enthusiasm oh yeah you don't want to know more about zelda you just

[1:30:43] want to know about the guy i want to know about that guy who's just like his eyes are popping

[1:30:47] out of his head he's so excited to see her yeah i don't want to say too much about this i'm gonna

[1:30:51] go back on what i said a little bit i don't want to say too much about this because i've been toying

[1:30:55] with writing like a humor piece about it for a while like it's been in the back of my head but

[1:31:00] Don't give away the trade secrets, Dan.

[1:31:02] I just want to know the story of the guy in It's a Wonderful Life who sits down by the lever that opens the gymnasium pool and what his deal is.

[1:31:14] Why he's hanging out there waiting for someone to be like, hey, you're jilted by your woman, huh?

[1:31:20] There's a pool under here that you could open up.

[1:31:23] What's his story?

[1:31:25] He just loves swimming.

[1:31:26] They don't get to use that pool very much.

[1:31:29] Let's get into recommendations.

[1:31:31] Movies you definitely should watch

[1:31:33] instead of hillbilly elegy.

[1:31:35] And I want to recommend something

[1:31:38] related to this movie in a way, thematically.

[1:31:42] It's called Deliverance.

[1:31:45] Dan, come on.

[1:31:46] It's called Wrong Turn 2.

[1:31:47] Another wrong turn.

[1:31:51] Guys, you'll never believe this.

[1:31:54] I think we took another wrong turn.

[1:31:56] I mean, that's the premise of the movie, Elliot.

[1:31:59] i'm surprised that this hasn't been officially recommended on the podcast before but my

[1:32:04] googling says it has not um the florida project does everything right that this movie does wrong

[1:32:11] about you know showing people who are in dire financial straits like it has uh a lot of sad

[1:32:17] stuff in it but it has a lot of joy it is presented um you know very matter-of-factly

[1:32:23] the day-to-day lives you have characters who are doing occasionally dumb or unsympathetic things

[1:32:29] because they are stuck in a situation that um uh sort of like doesn't allow for them to make

[1:32:39] mistakes unfortunately um and it is like filled with quiet moments and humor and joy along with

[1:32:48] the dramatic stuff and i think it paints a much more sort of full and sympathetic picture of

[1:32:57] what it is to be forced to live life you know it's just a precarious way yeah yeah i love the

[1:33:06] project i love that movie it's um like not just because uh for some of the like filmmaking feats

[1:33:12] that they managed to accomplish but also like willem dafoe's performance is so great and also

[1:33:17] the the performance from the children who i'm i'm assuming they did not realize they were like

[1:33:22] playing characters in a movie right like they're so natural they're playing characters i i knew

[1:33:30] they're playing characters but they they got natural performance it's a similar it's a i'm

[1:33:34] sure they utilize a similar method to what i use when i do uh performing exactly i mean i don't

[1:33:39] think it was one of those things where they like hypnotized them and were like this is your life

[1:33:42] now is that a thing that happens it's how it's how they got some of uh grace kelly's best

[1:33:50] performances out of her uh uh yeah you go elliot okay i'm gonna recommend a movie also about i

[1:33:58] guess uh expensive academic situations okay uh so i guess that connects to it this is a movie that's

[1:34:04] on amazon right now it's called cella and the spades and it was written directed by tayarisha

[1:34:08] Poe and it's set at a kind of like fancy boarding school where there's five like kind of five family

[1:34:16] type setup where there's groups of students that kind of run the student body and our main character

[1:34:20] Sela is the leader of a group called the Spades who are in charge of drugs and other illicit

[1:34:24] substances and it's kind of about her as someone who is trying to maintain this facade of just

[1:34:31] total composure and confidence all the time while she is up against the pressures of this

[1:34:36] kind of criminal social life and also the pressures from home to be like the best student

[1:34:41] she can be and not get into trouble. And she becomes friends with a younger student who she

[1:34:45] decides is going to be her heir in this position, but then starts to have a falling out with her

[1:34:50] when her suspicions grow. And the movie, it starts off and it feels like it's going to be kind of

[1:34:56] like a Wes Anderson-y type thing, which I like Wes Anderson-y stuff, but I worry that other people

[1:35:03] can't quite pull it off and then it does not become that at all it feels very much like a

[1:35:07] movie that could have been about its plot but is about a bad about instead about these characters

[1:35:12] existing and interacting and there are a number of scenes that where i was like oh this is what

[1:35:16] this really feels like what it's like to be like a teenager and have to kill time or be excited

[1:35:21] about something or be like worried about something i thought it was a really it's more elliptically

[1:35:26] told than i thought it might be and i thought it was uh really affecting that way so i would say

[1:35:31] stella and the spades if you want to see kind of like a teen movie that feels um more poetic

[1:35:37] than your normal teen movie with a plot like that might sound okay and i'm gonna recommend a movie

[1:35:42] let's tie this to hillbilly elegy uh this is a movie about we know it's psycho gourmand stew

[1:35:48] complicated relationship between grandparents and children uh i'm gonna recommend a movie on

[1:35:57] shutter called anything for jackson uh it's a horror movie about a older couple who uh decide

[1:36:05] they kidnap a pregnant woman in order to perform a reverse exorcism and bring back their grandson

[1:36:12] and uh it is a it's a funny uh well-made well-performed uh very efficient uh scare machine

[1:36:24] it is uh just by like scares per scares per moment you're gonna get more uh than your average horror

[1:36:32] movie uh i recommend it's a lot of fun uh yeah give it a shot anything for jackson good spm score

[1:36:39] yeah the spm score is is super high if you're looking for just like a fun horror movie night

[1:36:45] i think it's a great choice i will put it on my watch list um but okay dan i mean i noticed that

[1:36:53] you very prominently did not say i'll put it on my watch list after you know your sounded like a

[1:36:58] kind of uh like a you know maybe too good yeah a lot of a lot of vegetables yeah no but it's a good

[1:37:05] move all right uh how do i make it sound trashier uh and and one of them is a is a murderer who has

[1:37:11] a demon in her in her butt and so it's telling it's telling her to like to kill to kill everybody

[1:37:17] uh but it's at a carnival it's like a haunted carnival elliot you should be uh you should be

[1:37:22] pitching it at like a haunted girls boarding school okay yeah fair it's at it's at a it's

[1:37:28] at a haunted girls uh pillow fight academy okay you have my interest um it's it's called it's

[1:37:35] called saint nighties academy so uh let's make it i'm gonna make an effort for once to uh see if i

[1:37:42] can end this podcast quickly and efficiently okay and say just pretend pretend yeah pretend this

[1:37:49] podcast is your drug addicted mom in a hotel room and just say goodbye and drive off to new haven

[1:37:53] uh uh we'd like to thank jordan cowling for editing the show we would like to thank everyone

[1:37:59] at maximum fun uh for having us on their network why not go over to maximum fun.org check out uh

[1:38:08] the other podcasts on there i listen to several of them myself uh they are a well curated wonderful

[1:38:16] bunch um and if you have the time please spread the word about the flop house wherever uh you

[1:38:23] think it might be effective but until next time i've been dan mccoy i'm stewart wellington i'll

[1:38:30] be elliot calen next time too bye bye

[1:38:33] on this episode we discuss hillbilly elegy the latest installment in the barney google

[1:38:47] snuffy smith cinematic universe also pretty good mine is more uh you know

[1:38:53] contemporary with all the cool teens listening to rob zombie now

[1:38:56] Maximumfun.org

[1:39:04] Comedy and culture.

[1:39:05] Artist owned.

[1:39:06] Audience supported.

Ep. #335 - Hillbilly Elegy

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