Ep. #339 - Zack Snyder's Justice League TWO: Pt 4 - Epilogue

[0:00] Previously on the Flophouse

[0:02] He dies so loud that everyone across the world hears it

[0:05] Just like his death scream goes all over the place

[0:10] Yeah, it's like

[0:11] Ooooooh

[0:12] Aquaman's like, I don't owe anyone anything

[0:15] And he goes into the water

[0:16] And the women sing in Icelandic for a long time

[0:20] Because this is Zack Snyder-cut

[0:22] For a long time

[0:23] Wonder Woman, in the process of saving people

[0:26] Destroys as much shit as possible

[0:28] If I'm gonna complain about The Flash

[0:30] It's gonna be the fact that I think his characterization

[0:32] Was inspired by the Bazinga t-shirts

[0:34] That looked like The Flash logo

[0:36] I understand that you're living on this special Amazon island

[0:39] But have like one phone

[0:40] At one point he takes his fucking tank top off to go swimming

[0:43] And I'm like, but he's wearing jeans to swim?

[0:46] That's fucking crazy

[0:48] It's a blah blah blah exposition scene

[0:51] Blah blah blah

[0:52] I don't know, this is like

[0:53] They're like, go someplace and fight people

[0:56] On this episode we discuss

[0:58] Zack Snyder's Justice League

[1:00] Part 2

[1:02] So light some candles

[1:04] Break out the baby oil

[1:05] And queue up

[1:06] Lay it down by rat

[1:09] Because we're gonna be going

[1:11] For hours

[1:15] It's pretty hot, right?

[1:28] the

[1:43] Hey everyone and welcome to The Flophouse

[1:45] I am Dan McCoy

[1:48] What?

[1:50] I guess that means I'm

[1:52] Stuart Wellington?

[1:53] And unfortunately that means I'm the third of the group

[1:56] Elliot Kaelin, not as handsome as Stuart, not as freewheeling a spirit as Dan

[2:01] weighed down by my family and responsibilities and yet somehow

[2:04] with an inner nobility

[2:06] that only I know

[2:07] that I have been imbued with the great power of the cosmic

[2:11] conundrum. That's right, the cosmic conundrum. A question asked at the very

[2:15] beginning of the universe which exists only in my own head. That question

[2:19] Hey, so

[2:21] did the baby from Dinosaurs get a chance to grow up or did they all go extinct at

[2:24] the end of that series? Because I want to see that baby grow up.

[2:27] Uh...

[2:28] I think canonically they all did go extinct at the end of the series.

[2:33] Let me finish this cosmic conundrum has gifted me with strange and eerie powers

[2:37] the ability to see

[2:38] three seconds into the future

[2:40] not enough to change anything but enough to feel bad before something bad happens.

[2:45] Okay, kind of like a next thing. Sorry, I thought what you were going to say was going to

[2:50] tie into

[2:53] what I had said rather than just being another thing. You said, no, but I didn't want to dwell on the

[2:57] fact that the most beloved television character of all time, the dinosaur baby from Dinosaurs

[3:01] died at a very young age. Yeah.

[3:04] Tragically. Well, this is the Blop House. It's a podcast about...

[3:09] I love the idea that that was what they said on the news. A tragic and now a

[3:13] sadder story. Tragically, baby dinosaur has passed along with all other dinosaurs

[3:18] known for not being the mama.

[3:20] Well, wait a minute.

[3:24] Excuse me, Dan. Technically, Dan's right.

[3:26] To quote Phoenix Wright, I object. Counselor, it was Earl Sinclair,

[3:31] his father, who was labeled not the mama. It was the baby who was judging who was a mama and who was not the mama.

[3:36] Elliot, are you saying that by the goddamn transitive property,

[3:39] if Earl is not the mama, then

[3:42] everyone else is the mama? That's exactly what I'm saying. That's exactly what I'm saying.

[3:47] Until

[3:48] until Judge Dinosaur Baby rules otherwise on each single individual.

[3:53] And you can't take issue with it because you gotta love him. I mean, technically, when you

[3:57] think about it, the dinosaurs were mama's family.

[4:01] That's true.

[4:02] Interesting. I gotta agree with Dan on this one, Elliot.

[4:06] I mean, I don't want to, but the math is solid. The algebra is tight on that one.

[4:11] So, Dan, what are we doing on this podcast? This is a podcast

[4:14] where we watch a bad movie and we talk about it. Normally, this would be a week for a Flophouse Mini.

[4:20] Our off-week episodes where we sort of

[4:23] are more freewheeling and do whatever the hell we want.

[4:26] But as opposed to this episode where we are sticking to our remit of talking

[4:31] about Baby Dinosaur and his judicial abilities.

[4:34] Yeah, Conan the Barbarian is standing over my shoulder, and should we stray too

[4:39] long from the path we are supposed to tread,

[4:41] he will chop my head clean from my body.

[4:43] I never meant to indicate that on a normal episode we stick to the topic,

[4:50] just that the topic exists. And in this case, the topic is the second half

[4:56] of Zack Snyder's Justice League. This is, let's call this a mini-full episode.

[5:03] We're going to tie up the plot of Justice League, but not do the regular end-of-show stuff.

[5:08] Dan, if I was going to stick it on my shelf with all the other

[5:12] sodes and mini-sodes, where would I file it? Would it be in the minis or the regulars?

[5:18] You know what? I mean, it'll still be numbered like a regular show,

[5:23] but it'll be like that time when they put out all those Simpsons

[5:28] box sets that were like character cases,

[5:31] and it looked really lousy next to the normal boxes that you already owned.

[5:36] Did you keep those or did you throw them away?

[5:40] What happened was people whined long enough that the company,

[5:46] that Fox issued DVDs that were in line with the original packaging.

[5:52] Now, what I like is that story seems like it was unrelated, but it is exactly that sort of

[5:56] total waste of everyone's time answering of a fan's whining complaint that brought us this

[6:01] movie, Zack Snyder's Justice League.

[6:05] Let's get to it.

[6:05] Yeah, so let's get right into it, and we are, as I think we mentioned in the last sode,

[6:13] we have worked our way through chapters one through four, and we are now in chapter five,

[6:20] title, Who is Harry Crumb?

[6:23] Wait.

[6:27] Actually, I clicked on Who's Harry Crumb in the HBO Max streaming library and watched that.

[6:33] Yeah, well, the thumbnail was black and white,

[6:35] and everybody looked really unhappy in the picture, so I assumed it was Justice League.

[6:42] I promised myself I wouldn't do this anymore, but I am going to jump on Dan's mispronunciation

[6:47] and say, wouldn't it be amazing if it was Who's Harry Crumb,

[6:49] and it was about Heidi Klum's brother, who pronounces it slightly differently.

[6:54] And spells it differently.

[6:56] And spells it differently, yeah.

[6:59] Okay, so...

[7:01] Now, do you think Harry Crumb is related to Our Crumb?

[7:04] I never saw Who's Harry Crumb.

[7:06] Is Our Crumb the one looking for him?

[7:07] Well, as I said, that's the title of the chapter, so we'll find out.

[7:11] So we see our heroes, who have now decided that they're going to use the

[7:15] Mother Box to revive the recently deceased Superman.

[7:21] So our heroes are doing a little bit of grave robbing.

[7:24] That's right.

[7:28] I was trying to remember the police code for grave robbing.

[7:31] I think it's 138, right?

[7:34] So they are digging up Superman's body.

[7:36] There's a little banter.

[7:39] Yeah, there's a point where Cyborg's like, oh, you know, or the Flash is like,

[7:45] oh, we could do this in a nanosecond.

[7:47] You know that, right?

[7:48] And Cyborg's like, yeah, I know.

[7:51] As if they're doing it slowly out of respect for Superman.

[7:57] Whereas I'm like, guys, the Earth is on the line.

[8:00] Just use your superpowers.

[8:02] It's not going to be less respectful of this grave robbing you're doing if you do it really fast.

[8:07] Elliot, yeah, what do you think?

[8:08] Are you...

[8:09] Elliot's like, no, Dan's right.

[8:12] I totally agree.

[8:14] If it's the choice between saving the world and respecting the memory of a man who killed

[8:20] thousands fighting General Zod as collateral damage and then got himself killed fighting

[8:25] Doomsday for I'm not sure what reason, because it seems like Lex Luthor was only out to hurt

[8:29] Superman and not out to do much of anything.

[8:31] Basically, my issue is I never really understand in these movies why...

[8:36] I know why in the DC universe Superman is so respected and why when he died, it was

[8:41] a tragedy because he's the greatest of all heroes and he's been around for years saving

[8:44] the world.

[8:45] In the Snyderverse DC, DCCU, the Detective Comics Cinematic Universe, Superman hasn't

[8:52] been around that long.

[8:53] So I don't know why he is considered the ne plus ultra of humanity.

[8:57] Yeah.

[8:58] I mean, according to the previous movies, people seem to hate him most of the time he

[9:03] was around, too.

[9:04] It's kind of like if Sully Sullenberger, someday he will pass and I'll be very sad about it.

[9:08] But if when he did, they built a huge monument for him, he saved a bunch of people once and

[9:12] he seems like a pretty good guy.

[9:13] Mostly they built a huge monument for him.

[9:16] And then nobody in the world was happy ever again.

[9:19] Yeah.

[9:19] I mean, I feel like every the way that the DC Universe DC Cinematic Universe deals with

[9:25] Superman is not unlike the end of the second Harry Potter film where like all of a sudden

[9:31] the big end of the movie is Hagrid gets his job back and like all the kids are losing

[9:37] their fucking minds.

[9:37] And you're like, what's the fucking big deal?

[9:40] I didn't think people cared.

[9:41] I mean, it's not like that was the point of the movie, but I guess it is.

[9:46] And it would be weird if he didn't get his job.

[9:50] No, but I'm sure they I haven't seen all the movies.

[9:52] I'm sure most of the rest of them are about Hagrid's career development from that point

[9:55] on.

[9:55] Yeah.

[9:56] So, yeah, I mean, the way that the way the DC you see you.

[10:00] Deals with Superman is the way they deal with the with Jesus Christ in the end of the Bible where he is

[10:05] You know that he's the single greatest thing in the history of the world and when he comes back

[10:09] The trumpets will resound and and and so forth

[10:12] So I guess I'm saying is maybe Superman should have had like two more adventures before he died

[10:17] Yeah, and it would have felt more justified

[10:22] Important thing that Superman can do is die and then come back from the dead spoiler

[10:25] So meanwhile Batman and Alfred are having a little heart-to-heart

[10:30] We get the sense that Batman big surprise. It's a little bit of a brooding dude, you know, he's got a chip on his shoulder

[10:37] Yeah, he's what's known in the community as a brood daddy. Oh

[10:40] Wow, he's got like an alien stuck in his belly

[10:44] the brood

[10:47] And he's also a dad

[10:49] Justice League family looks like Oliver Reed

[10:52] And his hand turns into an avapositor and he can insert little eggs into other superhumans

[10:58] Yeah, that's it. That's a loose reading of the brood, but

[11:05] Okay, so oh you're talking about the X-Men brood, yeah, so I thought we're I thought this was a comic book podcast guys

[11:16] So our

[11:18] Heroes all decide to do a little bit of sneaking around and they break into the facility that has Superman spaceship

[11:25] It's kind of yeah Star Labs because for the most part these guys are so super powerful

[11:31] They can do basically anything they want

[11:33] It's just funny to see them like sneaking around putting on costumes and like trying to see guys

[11:38] especially that

[11:39] Cyborg is full covered in glowing lights and it's like put a trench coat on at least dress up like Donatello when you'd go buy a

[11:45] pizza like put a fedora on the trench coat on try to protect it pretend you're not you're not a you know, a

[11:50] Super crazy part looking, you know

[11:52] Ultra human cyborgs on screen a little bit more in this in this cut of the movie obviously because it's four hours

[11:57] But he it really kind of brings up that like just a still image of it

[12:03] Like when he's walking around he seems fine

[12:05] But if there's ever like a still image of him or you spend too much time actually looking at him

[12:10] It looks kind of silly

[12:12] I don't know if it just added more texture or something because he's basically just silver and glowing lights with a little bit of skin

[12:19] Yeah, and it's it's and it's very CGI

[12:22] Yeah, I mean I hate to use that term. It's just like I feel like there could have been a little more

[12:26] I don't know if it's because that's his how he looks in the comics or something, but there's just not enough it it feels

[12:32] He looks very bland. I guess I always assumed he would look more robo copy

[12:37] And it's it's the first time and guys. This is me. I'm going to

[12:42] Go on this is me reversing a long-held belief

[12:45] I am NOT a big fan of when they use superhero costumes and movies and they have to add a lot of texture to it

[12:50] Yeah, like in the old spider-man movies how his webs were all like three-dimensional

[12:54] It was like just make it look like the webs are printed on but cyborg. He needs a little more real texture

[12:58] I think he's a little too smooth and smooth in some places jagged in others, and he's got a bad attitude

[13:04] Cyborg, baby

[13:08] You know like yeah, the texture is of like an appliance out-of-the-box rather than like

[13:15] Which he is he's out of a mother box

[13:19] Now if it is funny that they're sneaking around and they and cyborgs dad is like hey, this is a false alarm

[13:25] Nobody evacuate and then he sees his son. He's like oh, I mean, you know, everybody evacuate

[13:33] Yeah, no man show Morton's great, okay, so

[13:37] They break into the facility. They go to Superman's ship. It's like kind of organic and kind of not

[13:42] It is intensely vaginal if

[13:46] vaginas were made for the

[13:48] display and extruding of Superman costumes

[13:52] It's like it's like a whole it's like this the Kryptonian ship is like a hallway of vaginas that it then ends in a big pit

[13:57] Of the goop from Ghostbusters. I like the idea that somewhere. There's a

[14:02] There's a poster for this movie that has just a pull quote that says intensely vaginal

[14:08] It's really funny you mentioned the the the consistency of the goop that they stick Superman's body in which is kind of interesting because

[14:15] At no point do we like we see the body from a distance, but we never I don't think we ever see his face

[14:21] When he's dead. No, they they're very respectful

[14:24] I'm more respectful than people were with Abraham Lincoln's body where one picture was taken of his guys on display in hundreds of years

[14:30] Let it go. Well, it hasn't been hundreds of years Dan. It's been a hundred and fifty years

[14:34] Hundreds of years

[14:39] Yeah, I will say two things one the vaginal ship really fits into my Justice League is the Cray master of superheroes

[14:46] Analogy from last episode, but also they're taking very great care of a Superman's body the photograph of his dad that he was buried with

[14:53] Just drop that in the goop. Who cares if that gets ready?

[14:55] That's what's so funny is at first

[14:56] I'm like is this water but no it's basically like honey, right? Because the way that photo sinks in there

[15:02] It's like man, that's like you could scoop that shit up with a tortilla chip. Oh, yeah, it's very viscous

[15:09] amazing, so

[15:11] Let's see. They decide they throw the body in the honey

[15:15] They realize they're not gonna get our honey dip

[15:20] They realize they're not gonna get enough juice from the ship, you know, it's it's been too beat up

[15:24] So flash is like well, I'm fast, but I can also if I move super fast

[15:29] And I approached the speed of light I actually generate a lot of juice so maybe I'll do that and

[15:35] Everybody's like, oh, that's a bad idea. Batman's immediately into it. Batman is like

[15:40] Super dedicated. I guess that that's his character, right? But like I feel like you would think about a little bit

[15:52] Batman is there's a certain like Batman is he's the Batman we know he's brooding

[15:56] He is a planner more than a but he's also a fighter

[15:59] But he's also there's a little touch of Kramer in him, which is kind of like, oh, yeah, let's do that. Okay

[16:08] So they have this like plan where flash is gonna run super fast and

[16:14] Meanwhile cyborg is tied in with the ship and like at the last moment

[16:20] Cyborg has a vision of the future or possible futures where we see

[16:25] Darkseid finally using his fucking Omega beams like a boss and a couple other things like evil Superman probably

[16:33] and

[16:34] Flash runs super fast and he touches the mother box at the perfect moment right as it's touching that fucking honey

[16:40] Cyborg literally says like no and flash goes go. Okay. Yeah, I like that. It's like what is this Scooby-Doo?

[16:47] I do think there is something about like the obsession with

[16:51] The flash and Superman being able to go so fast that they turn time backwards that it feels like

[16:58] Somebody just heard like snippets like they just overheard somebody talking about shit

[17:04] The flash can do and they're like, oh, that's sick. We got to put that in the movie

[17:09] Which like he's super fast. Just let him be fast. He doesn't have to turn time

[17:13] Is that my theory is that Zack Snyder was listening to a lot of Cher and he said, yeah

[17:17] What if we could turn back time?

[17:20] Wait a minute, which song was he listening to though? If I could turn back time

[17:26] It wasn't life after love or or gypsy stramps of these, uh-huh go on you have more

[17:33] It was half-breed one of hers. I think it was right. Yeah, and also and

[17:38] The you know, the one her big duet with with Sonny, what was it?

[17:44] I got you, babe

[17:47] Showing our lack of share catalog knowledge tonight guys. We are sharing

[17:56] Okay, so sharing it pro bono so he

[17:59] Flash hits that box the box flips out flash gets knocked out and then all of a sudden big explosion time, baby

[18:06] Motherbox is flipping out lands on a car and we stand in the sky. What you want to interrupt me? Yes. Sorry

[18:12] I just want to say that is a perfect name for a ska band big explosion time, baby. Okay continue

[18:19] Worth the interruption. Yeah, I think so or or it is a poorly translated like subtitle to a porn movie. Yeah

[18:29] Explosion time baby when you see the

[18:32] Handmade posters in like the college quad it uses an image of baby Sinclair. So

[18:43] Yep, so of course Superman's flying around

[18:47] He like lands. He looks at the memorial. He is not wearing a shirt on and man

[18:51] He looks amazing. Like I am all about this wish he had a mustache though. So he's like

[18:57] I

[18:59] Have I have some bad news for you

[19:01] Actually millions of dollars of computer technology was used to erase a mustache of his face seems

[19:06] Crazy because he would look amazing with a mustache

[19:10] Impossible movie. I mean it was one of those things

[19:12] I think I've told the story before how I heard the story about how they use computers to erase that mustache and I was like

[19:17] That's ridiculous. He couldn't just shave the mustache and then I saw Mission Impossible and I was like they made the right choice

[19:23] It makes the character like

[19:25] His face is so and his face and his personality feels so different with that mustache on and I like him so much not that

[19:31] I don't like him when he doesn't have a mustache, but I like him so much more with that much. No, he's great

[19:35] Well, I mean it helps a mission impossible fallout is such a good movie. Oh, it's a better movie

[19:42] Okay

[19:44] What it does passively well

[19:47] But but also like yeah with Henry Cavill

[19:50] Like are we sure that this version of it has any digitally erased mustache?

[19:55] Or is that all for reshoots for the Whedon version? That's what I was wondering. I mean

[20:00] Yes, I don't, I mean, I haven't compared it shot for shot, but this scene is in the

[20:03] Whedon version.

[20:04] So I don't know.

[20:05] I think they are, I think there is, they took out Whedon's shot footage, but I don't know

[20:09] if they like re-shot, if those re-shot particular shots were removed.

[20:15] Write in, write to Twitter at Dank McCoy and tell them all about it.

[20:21] Write to Dank doesn't really care that much, care of Stuart Wellington.

[20:26] Oh wow.

[20:27] Okay.

[20:28] And then just start stacking them up.

[20:30] Hinterland's bar, look it up.

[20:32] So okay, at this point, Superman, he's flipping out.

[20:37] By flipping out, I mean, he's just walking around looking at stuff.

[20:40] The Justice League is like, oh, hey, Superman, let's have a conversation.

[20:44] He's not up for that.

[20:45] Wonder Woman keeps calling him Kal-El, which is really annoying.

[20:48] It's like the guy who, she's like, I knew him during study abroad.

[20:52] So I know his, the nickname that his family calls him, hey, Kal-El, like I'm closer to

[20:57] him than you guys.

[20:58] It's very annoying.

[20:59] So of course they have a fight at this point.

[21:02] Cyborg's defense system is like, oh no, I detect a threat.

[21:04] I can't stop myself.

[21:05] And it's like, yeah, I've said that before, dude.

[21:08] He goes all Iron Giant on Superman.

[21:11] And yeah, so they fight Superman and it's like, it feels very, it feels even more silly

[21:17] in this cut.

[21:18] I don't know why.

[21:20] Like it feels very tacked on.

[21:22] Yeah, it's unfortunate because like, you know, that's what we all kind of want in these superhero

[21:29] stories, right?

[21:30] For the heroes to like fight each other sometimes.

[21:33] I mean, that's the whole selling point of Captain America Civil War.

[21:37] I mean, it's what I wanted before the last 10 years of Marvel annual crossovers.

[21:43] Oh!

[21:44] No, but it is, it does feel like for that pretty pro forma.

[21:50] And also, yeah, like Cyborg, you know, maybe your dad should allow you to manually override

[21:55] your defense systems.

[21:56] That's a good, you know, maybe for like the version 2.0 upgrade.

[22:02] It feels like the only safeguard he has is that his body will sometimes just shoot missiles

[22:07] at things.

[22:08] You mean that you don't like Cyborg's philosophy of, I'm in a car, it's out of control, I'm

[22:13] heading towards the school, got to take my hands off the wheel and just see how this

[22:16] plays out.

[22:17] Nothing I can do about it.

[22:18] I wonder if like Cyborg is doing the same thing that I'm doing with my phone where I

[22:23] just keep punching like later for the updates and this would have been fixed.

[22:28] Yeah, that's true.

[22:29] That's very possible.

[22:30] Or he's not plugging in at night so it can't update.

[22:31] Yeah, and he gets the message the next morning and he's like, ah, I should have just plugged

[22:34] it in.

[22:35] And Superman shows that he is better than all of the team in every regard.

[22:40] Like he's faster than the Flash, he's stronger than Aquaman, he blasts more eye lasers than

[22:46] Bruce Wayne.

[22:48] I mean, that's any, yeah.

[22:51] I probably blast more eye lasers than Bruce Wayne.

[22:53] Okay, I don't know what that means.

[22:56] I mean, well, he's a fixable character, so.

[22:59] Okay, good point, fair point.

[23:01] Take that guy who doesn't really exist, but is still more famous than you?

[23:06] Anyway, I think, I have two thoughts about this.

[23:10] One is that, yeah, this scene feels really tacked on and I think they don't really have

[23:14] a reason for it.

[23:15] And Superman has been built up to be such a messianic, noble figure that it really rings

[23:21] false and they're trying to create this possibility that he has a heel turn where he helps Darkseid

[23:26] and that aspect of it just never feels organic.

[23:30] But the other thing I'm going to say is, the moment when Flash is running towards him at

[23:35] super speed and Superman turns to look at him because he's faster than the Flash is

[23:39] a really great moment.

[23:40] It's one of the, it's, that's a moment where it's, that was one of the few moments in the

[23:43] whole four hour movie where I was even having seen it in the original cut being, this is

[23:47] one of the few moments where I was like, oh shit, like he's not supposed to be able to

[23:51] do that, but he can.

[23:52] Yeah.

[23:53] No, it's cool.

[23:54] Yeah.

[23:55] I mean, it definitely, I've probably expounded at length on the show about how I'm not a

[24:01] huge fan of the Superman is evil now take that seems so popular in various versions

[24:09] of this, of this character stories.

[24:12] And this feels even weirder.

[24:14] And it seems like they're setting up a bigger heel turn for Superman, but I don't care about

[24:19] that because I probably will never have to watch a movie that has, will never get made.

[24:25] So luckily Superman's seeing red until Lois Lane shows up and it's like, cut that shit

[24:31] out dude.

[24:32] And so they just bounce, they fly out of there.

[24:35] Leaving Batman with two fewer arm bracers that suck up a Superman eye lasers.

[24:41] I know those are really powerful.

[24:43] Like I like, this is the point, this is the, I have to admit something guys, like as much

[24:49] as I don't necessarily find this movie emotionally involving at all, there's still something

[24:55] primal like seeing Superman shooting his, his eyes, his vision at Batman.

[25:02] Like just like the fact that those characters themselves carry so much history that I'm

[25:07] just like still sitting there like clutching Audrey's leg next to me, Audrey totally bored

[25:14] by all of it.

[25:15] But me being like, Oh no, he's a, you know, he's a human being.

[25:19] You can't do that.

[25:20] Superman.

[25:21] He can't take that.

[25:22] Like it was very, like I was very worried for a moment, but yeah.

[25:25] Well, yeah.

[25:26] And considering how like brutal all the use of superpowers seems to be in this movie,

[25:31] like anytime anybody uses any kind of power, it like shatters the world around them.

[25:36] And the, that, and I feel like leading up to this point, they keep, I mean, they talk

[25:40] about Superman as like a messianic figure, but they also talk about him as like a figure

[25:45] of like fear.

[25:47] Like they keep talking about how the mother boxes are afraid of him.

[25:51] And like, and at this point they've like build him up as this, like, Oh, maybe he's evil.

[25:56] That's terrifying.

[25:58] And I don't know.

[25:59] I'm not into it.

[26:00] No, I think, I think part of the issue is that, and here's where I'm going to get into

[26:04] a larger problem with the movie, which I should probably save till later, but who knows, which

[26:08] is that Superman to us, having grown up with Superman in tons of different types of media,

[26:14] whether we saw him in comic books or movies or cartoons, or that the roller coaster at

[26:18] Six Flags Great Adventure or whatever, like he represents kind of like ultimate moral

[26:24] goodness and nobility.

[26:26] Like, and the idea of him turning evil is supposed to be, it should be scary because

[26:31] even the most noble man in the world might turn evil, but in Zack Snyder's Justice League,

[26:36] he doesn't seem to represent nobility so much as he represents force, overwhelming godlike

[26:41] force that can be used for justice, hopefully, but might be used for evil.

[26:45] And he's just power.

[26:46] He's just strength.

[26:47] And so to see him beating up on Batman or to, to think that he might go bad or something,

[26:52] he doesn't, he doesn't really represent anything.

[26:54] He doesn't stand for anything.

[26:55] And to a larger extent, one of the issues that I would have with this, with this movie

[26:59] that the writer Jeet here talked about on Twitter was that it borrows a lot from Jack

[27:05] Kirby's Fourth World Saga, which is this epically metaphorical saga about young versus old and

[27:12] closed mindedness and repressiveness versus open mindedness and, and kind of personal

[27:17] and social liberation.

[27:19] And he's using these larger than life cosmic superhero characters to have basically a,

[27:25] a philosophical metaphorical discussion, you know, and it's also really goofy and there's

[27:28] like a team of space hippies, you know, but this movie, the characters don't represent

[27:33] anything.

[27:34] They don't mean anything.

[27:35] They're just about, they're just action figures that can punch real hard.

[27:38] So when Superman like spoiler alert, he helps the heroes at the end when he shows up, he

[27:42] doesn't say anything about goodness.

[27:45] He doesn't represent anything.

[27:46] He just punches the shit out of the bad guy over and over again.

[27:49] All he represents is the strongest fist on the block and like that is a, that was more

[27:54] chilling to me than anything in the movie was the idea that like this guy who is supposed

[27:58] to be like friend of all children always does the right thing is just, Oh, it's a good thing.

[28:03] He's on our side because he is, he can destroy anything in the world when he shows up in

[28:07] a jet black costume and just blast the shit out of the bad guy and you're like, dude,

[28:12] stop it.

[28:13] Calm down.

[28:14] He's got his fucking ear off and then, and then that the heroes, I mean, spoiler, they

[28:18] straight up kill him and he's like, I mean, he's a bet.

[28:22] He's as bad as dudes get.

[28:23] It's war.

[28:24] I understand.

[28:25] They're just, they're just really happy about it.

[28:26] I don't like it.

[28:27] It just kidnapped the president.

[28:28] You're sending Steppenwolf after him.

[28:30] Speaking of which, Steppenwolf shows up.

[28:31] He heard the fucking call of the mother box and he's like, boomtown baby, I'm taking this

[28:35] boom tube right to Gotham city.

[28:37] I think.

[28:38] So he shows up, you can rock it up this move too.

[28:41] Yeah.

[28:42] So Steppenwolf shows up and he's like, what the fuck?

[28:44] Where's that box?

[28:45] Joe Morton's already stolen it.

[28:46] He's taking it back into the lab.

[28:48] So Steppenwolf just jumps into the lab, uh, and Joe Morton locks himself into a room and

[28:55] just like in, just like in the classic Beetlejuice song, jump in the lab, get the mother box

[28:59] guy.

[29:00] Okay.

[29:01] Steppenwolf now written and performed by Beetlejuice, uh, the, so, uh, Steppenwolf shows up and he's

[29:06] trying to get it.

[29:07] And then Joe Morton uses a laser beam blast at the box and you're like, what the fuck

[29:11] are you doing?

[29:12] Dude?

[29:13] Are you trying to kill it?

[29:14] Nope.

[29:15] He kills himself.

[29:16] And you're like, that's a big whiff.

[29:17] Turns out he had a plan because Steppenwolf takes that box away after blasting cyborg

[29:21] cyborgs.

[29:22] Like, Oh no, my dad's dead, which makes sense.

[29:24] Cause that's his dad.

[29:25] Um, he's not completely a robot yet, but then they realize his dad had a plan.

[29:31] He blasted that box so that it'll get super hot and it'll show up on thermal imaging.

[29:35] They can track that box, baby.

[29:37] Yeah.

[29:38] So it's the kind of, it's the kind of plan that is only decipherable if you have read

[29:42] the script.

[29:43] Yeah.

[29:44] That's, that's kind of what I was.

[29:45] Yeah.

[29:46] The, I, we probably made this point in the earlier justice league theatrical cut show

[29:52] that we did.

[29:53] I don't know.

[29:54] I haven't listened to it, but like, there's no reason like Joe Morton has a remote control.

[29:58] He doesn't have to be in the death room.

[30:00] With the box shooting lasers at him like and he's got he's got so much to live for

[30:04] He's a powerful guy with a great career. His son is there with him

[30:07] He's got a great steak franchise. I mean as far as steak franchises go. It's kind of the top

[30:12] Yeah, if I'm gonna go to a chain steak steakhouse, yeah more. Yeah, probably my favorite, right?

[30:18] And if I can't get a Morton's I guess I'll go to a Ruth's crisp and I'm gonna look for a Morton's

[30:22] I want to see the little show they put on where they show you what broccoli

[30:25] Dan is here saying Shula's is the best and I get it because Dan was named after Dan Marino

[30:33] They wanted they wanted to name him after Don Shula that there was a typo on the birth certificate nothing about steakhouses

[30:41] No, I don't but this is I just wanted to say this is one of those times where it's like a movie thing

[30:46] That happens just because it's like well, you know

[30:49] Some character needs to die to motivate one of our heroes at this point in the script. Yeah, he'll make a dumb choice

[30:55] Can't lose Lois Lane because she's too busy flying off a superman to Kansas

[30:59] Where they check out the house that the bank has taken on man that big stupid bank that took away the Kent house

[31:06] And that's where we their side Stewart. Oh

[31:10] Wow, well, we'll get to that later. Okay

[31:14] Leave you on the edge of your seat because you know what that is the end of this chapter chapter 5 who was Harry crumb

[31:22] Hey, it's John Moe and look these are challenging times for our mental and emotional health I get it

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[31:53] It was about finding a way to communicate to somebody that like there's terrible sh going on back here plus

[32:00] Psychiatrists psychologists and all kinds of folks on depression mode. We're working together

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[33:05] Now let's have a word from our sponsors guys, what do you think? Okay, let's do it

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[34:43] Super fun and we have a long drive ahead of us this coming weekend. Are those narrated by a Harold Perrineau's character?

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[35:33] today

[35:34] Stewart I think you have I have a little I have a little plug-y-wug and that is for another podcast

[35:40] It's a podcast called. I know the owner

[35:43] It is a podcast. It is a new podcast

[35:47] hosted by my wife Charlene Wellington the owner of a couple of bars and it is a

[35:54] Podcast about bar people talking bar stuff. I have been a guest a couple times

[35:58] Which those are the worst episodes?

[36:01] but the it's a great show and it gives if you're interested at all in the life of bar owners and

[36:09] bartending and

[36:10] Service the service industry in general, especially in a time like this where it's such a state of flux

[36:17] Check it out. I know the owner wherever you find podcasts and

[36:21] Is that the last plug

[36:24] Hey speaking of comics maniac in New York on shelves now from aftershock comics

[36:29] That's the last one. So back to the back to the story. Okay, so we are into chapter 6 the big box bash them up

[36:36] That's right

[36:39] So the team because the because the climax takes place in a Home Depot, that's true

[36:45] yeah, so the

[36:48] At this point the team is talking about their plan for how they're gonna stop

[36:53] Steppenwolf they seem to the the and it's it's fine

[36:57] they come up with a plan everything but it is a little weird that I've what a woman seems very aware of exactly what the

[37:04] Mother box is capable of they're talking about how they want to have cyborg try and disrupt the unity of the three mother boxes

[37:11] And she's like no that thing destroys worlds

[37:15] It'll know all your deepest fears, dude, and you're like what for real? It's just I think you're forgetting Stuart. She saw a mural

[37:21] That's true

[37:23] I've seen some very detailed some murals by Gustav Klimt and I feel like they get me in ways that I never knew myself

[37:31] But you're right

[37:32] there's a lot of there's at this point we're now into the movie where

[37:35] The section of the movie where they've got a barrel towards the climax and they do not have time to learn things

[37:39] So they start just spontaneously generating information that they need to get to the next step of this of the story

[37:45] Yeah, like Bruce Wayne talks about how he had a vision of the future where the flash told him that Lois Lane is the key

[37:52] It's very vague. It doesn't matter for the rest of the movie. I'm sure it's all set up for a future movie

[37:57] It feels very dumb. I don't know about you guys

[37:59] And he's referring to a scene from a previous movie which at the time didn't make sense and is still

[38:05] Not necessary as of this movie

[38:09] So and Bruce Wayne, oh, yeah, I want to say Bruce Wayne has a really funny line

[38:13] He says they he's like they're like dark. They're like Steppenwolf and Darkseid

[38:17] They conquered worlds thousands worlds and that was he's never fought us not us United and it was like, yeah

[38:23] He did dude in like part three. Remember and he beat you. Yeah, do you don't remember that?

[38:27] That was in your time. That was last night. Like come on, dude

[38:32] Yeah, that was like like 12 hours ago

[38:35] You're that dope spider tank and he just fucking wrecked it

[38:38] Yeah, and I can only assume that all that all that heat vision from Superman has given him some short-term memory loss

[38:45] He's like this Steppenwolf. He's never seen us. He doesn't know our fighting styles

[38:48] He definitely hasn't seen my nightcrawler tank and they're like no no all that happens

[38:53] Yeah, don't to let Bruce look at the nightcrawler bin he's going to be very disappointed

[38:59] Bruce is like, you know, we should do bring Superman back. Why didn't we think of that earlier? That would go great

[39:04] They're like Bruce. Why don't you sit down here? Have some lemonade?

[39:08] Meanwhile in his energy testicle fortress

[39:11] Steppenwolf is sinking the mother boxes and one of the things I like about this scene is that

[39:15] Steppenwolf is a lot like me when I'm trying to get my fucking phone to sync with the blue

[39:20] The Bluetooth player in my car. He's like, come on

[39:24] sing

[39:27] Like he's so fucking frustrated it's awesome, you know, if he could he just keep clicking the button over and over again

[39:33] Yeah, part of me is wondering if that was just some kind of like outtake from Kieran Hines

[39:37] Like trying to record his audio and through his fucking microphone. It wasn't working

[39:42] so

[39:43] Now let's just get some wild lines of you getting this the mutt wanting the mother boxes to sink

[39:49] What should I say something technical? No, whatever. Just say whatever comes to your mind

[40:00] So Superman sees his mom, and she's like, for real?

[40:03] And he's like, for real.

[40:04] And then he's like, I'm going to go help everybody.

[40:06] I'm going to get in the battle again.

[40:07] You're like, no shit, you're Superman.

[40:09] That's all you do.

[40:10] Every time I see Martha Kent in this movie, I'm like,

[40:13] is she the Martian Manhunter?

[40:16] She's been established.

[40:18] One of these times, she was the Martian Manhunter.

[40:21] Could be.

[40:22] You never know.

[40:23] See, because I have the same thing.

[40:24] I'm like, shouldn't she be putting on a show

[40:26] in the Streets of Fire universe right now?

[40:29] Why isn't she singing Nowhere Fast?

[40:30] Yeah, that's right.

[40:33] Why isn't she under the Tuscan sun right now?

[40:35] Is that?

[40:36] Wait, was Martian Manhunter and under a Tuscan sun?

[40:40] I don't know which of her roles were Martian Manhunter.

[40:43] Was Martian Manhunter one of the fabulous stains?

[40:46] I can't tell.

[40:48] Oh, we're going to have to watch them all.

[40:50] Okay, so Superman's like, he's made up his mind.

[40:54] He's going to do a battle.

[40:55] You got to imagine in history of violence

[40:58] when Viggo Mortensen's like, yeah, I'm secretly an assassin,

[41:00] but you're the Martian Manhunter,

[41:02] so maybe let's not throw stones, okay?

[41:04] Let's not talk about keeping secrets in a marriage, okay?

[41:07] Wait a minute, that's a bit different.

[41:09] Wait a minute.

[41:11] Wait, was she in the history of violence

[41:14] or was that Maria Bello?

[41:16] I thought that was Dianne Lane.

[41:17] Is it Maria Bello?

[41:18] That's Maria Bello.

[41:18] You would know because she wears a hat

[41:21] because she's the hat detective.

[41:23] That's right, I forgot.

[41:25] I forgot without her hat, I didn't recognize her.

[41:28] Yeah, it makes sense.

[41:29] When Stuart said that we have to go through all,

[41:30] we got a lot of movies we got to go through,

[41:33] I was now imagining someone who saw Justice League,

[41:37] doesn't understand how a movie works,

[41:39] and they're like, oh my God, for how long?

[41:41] Oh, we have to go back through all of Dianne Lane's films

[41:45] and see, look for clues.

[41:47] We got to find the Easter eggs

[41:49] that prove that she was really John Jones,

[41:51] the Martian Manhunter,

[41:52] who has the single funniest line in the movie,

[41:56] which we'll get to at the end, I think.

[41:57] Yeah, it's great.

[41:58] So Superman decides to fly back to his ship

[42:01] and he passes those Superman costume vaginas

[42:04] that Elliot talked about,

[42:06] and then he sets his eyes on something special.

[42:08] That's right, an all black Superman costume

[42:10] because that's what this movie needed is less color.

[42:15] So he goes flying off and you're like,

[42:16] okay, I guess I'll show up at some point.

[42:18] Okay, so Batman decides to, Batman takes the team,

[42:23] they fly to Chernobyl, they see the energy testicle,

[42:27] the ship that he'd been building finally works,

[42:29] thanks to Cyborg fixing it up.

[42:31] Like, that's not a big surprise.

[42:33] Batman has a plan, he drops off the team

[42:35] and then he flies his little ship over,

[42:37] he blasts the testicle a bunch of times with missiles

[42:40] because again, Batman never uses guns.

[42:43] He blasts open the thing, he knocks out an energy tower

[42:47] that is creating the energy force field,

[42:49] and then he crashes his plane

[42:51] and then a bunch of parademons go after him

[42:53] and he's like, don't worry about me, I'm a baby boomer,

[42:56] I can do it all myself.

[42:59] No, here's, I want you to explain Batman's plan to me

[43:01] because he's like, we have the plan,

[43:02] follow the plan and don't worry about me.

[43:04] And the plan seems to be that they protect him

[43:06] as he does all this stuff to keep parademons off him.

[43:09] Like, I don't, I didn't understand how the plan-

[43:10] But that wasn't, I don't think that was the plan,

[43:11] his plan was like, I'll do it all myself,

[43:14] I'm a tough guy, I don't care anymore.

[43:16] But then as soon as, as soon as she gets real.

[43:20] So was the plan like, the plan was like,

[43:21] you guys stay here and watch me do this shit,

[43:23] make sure to get it on the GoPro

[43:25] so we can upload it later to TikTok.

[43:27] I'm gonna go beat this guy single-handed.

[43:28] Picture me stunting.

[43:30] So while he's fighting parademons,

[43:32] he's like, smash that subscribe button,

[43:33] smash that like button, leave a comment.

[43:36] Leave some comments, please.

[43:38] So Batman's part here, right, is to break into the-

[43:39] Only fire emojis.

[43:41] Hashtag Batman do it all.

[43:43] So Batman breaks into the testicle,

[43:45] but what, once they're in there,

[43:47] what we got is basically a Back to the Future scenario,

[43:50] right, where Cyborg is holding the box.

[43:55] Batman's mom really wants to sleep with him

[43:57] because she doesn't know that it's,

[43:58] that Batman's gonna grow up to be a son.

[44:00] The Flash has to race by and charge up Cyborg

[44:03] so he can shoot into a lawnmower man.

[44:05] Yeah, that seems to be their,

[44:06] that's like the fucking fastball special of this team,

[44:08] right, is that they just,

[44:09] they keep doing this shit over and over and again.

[44:12] So they have a, there's a-

[44:13] So it's really, this movie is really, in a big way,

[44:15] much more than the original one,

[44:17] this is the Flash and Cyborg's movie.

[44:18] Yeah.

[44:19] Like, it's, I feel like part of Joss Whedon's

[44:21] mission statement was like,

[44:23] we gotta de-Flash and de-Cyborg this movie,

[44:25] because they get so much more to do here,

[44:27] and it's so much more their story,

[44:28] but I don't remember them that much

[44:29] from the original version of it.

[44:30] No, and also, I mean, let's be honest,

[44:33] like they are given the most character to play too,

[44:38] so it's weird to me that they were like so cut down

[44:41] in the shorter version,

[44:42] because they're the only ones who have anything

[44:44] that approaches a personality.

[44:46] Yeah.

[44:47] Everybody else feels like kind of established characters

[44:52] that you're supposed to already give a shit about,

[44:54] and the two of them, you actually,

[44:56] they feel like they have arcs.

[44:58] So there's this action sequence

[45:00] where they're like running through,

[45:02] I'm hoping, an abandoned town,

[45:04] because they blow the fucking shit out of it.

[45:07] It was established, and earlier on, it is abandoned,

[45:09] the radiation levels are so high,

[45:10] no one can survive there except superheroes.

[45:12] Although Steppenwolf took all the radiation

[45:14] when he built his cool-ass energy testicle, so.

[45:17] So maybe Steppenwolf's not the bad guy.

[45:19] He's de-irradiating towns.

[45:21] This is like at the end of Godzilla, King of the Monsters,

[45:23] when it was revealed that to solve climate change,

[45:26] we just needed to set a big bunch of kaiju around

[45:28] to smash buildings, and that would make everything better.

[45:30] I don't know how comfortable I am

[45:31] with Elliot doing PR for Steppenwolf right now,

[45:33] but we'll talk about that after the episode.

[45:35] I'm just saying, there's two sides of the story,

[45:37] and it has nothing at all to do

[45:39] with the payments I recently received

[45:41] from Step and Wolf.

[45:44] It's a law firm in no way affiliated with Steppenwolf,

[45:46] the cosmic supervillain.

[45:48] I'm just saying, hey guys,

[45:49] have you thought maybe this whole Steppenwolf hoax

[45:52] is just the deep state trying to get at someone

[45:55] who's really trying to get to the bottom

[45:56] of the questions of our time?

[45:58] Questions like, what happened to Baby Dinosaur?

[46:01] Is he still around?

[46:02] Or did he go extinct with all the other ones?

[46:04] I'm just saying, maybe Steppenwolf got a little too,

[46:06] and I know I said Steppenwolf.

[46:08] Maybe Steppenwolf, but we're also going by Steppenwolf.

[46:11] Maybe Steppenwolf got a little too close.

[46:14] Maybe Steppenwolf descended from Laserwolf,

[46:16] the butcher from Fiddler on the Roof,

[46:18] whose name, now that I think about it,

[46:19] is more of a supervillain name than Steppenwolf's name.

[46:21] Because if he was called Laserwolf,

[46:23] you'd be like, yeah, definitely.

[46:24] He works for Darkseid,

[46:24] so he's a wolf who shoots lasers out of his eyes.

[46:26] But anyway, I'm just saying, Steppenwolf.

[46:28] Shall we?

[46:29] I gotta admit, as much as I did love Fiddler on the Roof

[46:32] when you showed it to me, Elliot,

[46:34] I loved it, I thought it was fantastic.

[46:37] I was a little disappointed

[46:39] when the character Laserwolf showed up

[46:41] and he was just a guy.

[46:44] Yeah, it is disappointing.

[46:46] It's disappointing.

[46:46] I can only hit it up to the fact that in Yiddish,

[46:50] laser and wolf are different words than in English.

[46:52] That makes sense.

[46:53] Yeah, your story checks out.

[46:55] I assume when Sholem Aleichem was writing

[46:57] the original Tevye the Dairyman stories,

[46:58] he didn't think, yeah, I'm gonna give this character

[47:00] a badass superhero name,

[47:02] and then I'm gonna reveal that he's just a butcher.

[47:04] Yeah.

[47:05] He's just a middle-aged butcher

[47:06] who's lonely and would like to marry Tevye's daughter.

[47:09] The people who-

[47:11] Doesn't work out.

[47:13] Was it Harmon and Bond?

[47:14] I'm trying to remember who wrote the stage show

[47:16] Fiddler on the Roof.

[47:17] They should know better.

[47:18] They knew English.

[47:19] They should know that Laserwolf was writing checks

[47:21] that they couldn't cash.

[47:22] Let's just call him Joseph.

[47:25] You have to imagine, it's 1968.

[47:28] These audiences of synagogue groups

[47:30] are being bused into Manhattan

[47:32] to go see Fiddler on the Roof,

[47:33] and they hear the name Laserwolf,

[47:34] and all the men in the audience go,

[47:35] oh, interesting, okay.

[47:39] Let's check the playbill to see who's playing this.

[47:42] Is it Hugh Jackman?

[47:43] I love him.

[47:44] Is it Jason Statham?

[47:46] To be honest, I can't imagine a world

[47:49] where Jack Kirby, who is, of course, Jewish,

[47:52] went to see Fiddler on the Roof

[47:54] and heard there's a character named Laserwolf,

[47:56] and already in his mind had built up a 40-book epic

[48:00] about this guy who is, he's a werewolf,

[48:02] but he also can turn into a laser

[48:04] because of something that happened

[48:05] on the light of a full moon,

[48:06] and then the character shows up,

[48:07] and he's like, whoa, hold on.

[48:09] My version of Laserwolf would be so much better.

[48:13] At least my characters will be so clearly defined

[48:16] that they could never be misinterpreted in this way.

[48:18] And then Stan Lee was behind him

[48:20] taking notes about the character

[48:21] that Jack Kirby was coming up with.

[48:23] And then wrote at the bottom,

[48:25] Laserwolf, copyright, Stan Lee,

[48:26] at the bottom of the head.

[48:28] If there was a Twitter at the time,

[48:29] the sketches that Jack Kirby would have posted

[48:33] immediately after seeing the show would be amazing.

[48:37] Yeah, it would be amazing.

[48:38] Or here's the other thing that might have happened

[48:40] is that Jack Kirby was brought in as a script doctor

[48:43] when they were out of town tryouts

[48:45] of Fiddler on the Roof,

[48:46] and he's like, there's just one problem,

[48:47] that butcher, he shouldn't be named Jakob anymore.

[48:50] What should we name him?

[48:51] Laserwolf.

[48:52] Okay, it seems inappropriate for the character.

[48:55] He doesn't have lasers.

[48:56] He's not a wolf.

[48:58] Well, let's see how the name works,

[48:59] and then we can go from there.

[49:00] And the name was such a hit with audiences.

[49:02] They would say, Yenta walks in,

[49:05] she goes, I have a match for your eldest, Seitel.

[49:07] Who is it, who?

[49:08] Laserwolf.

[49:09] And audiences were just standing ovations,

[49:12] lost their shit.

[49:13] They didn't even view the rest of the show.

[49:14] And then the wall explodes, and he goes, oh yeah.

[49:19] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[49:20] It's like when I heard about that comic

[49:22] that was written by Lil' Kid

[49:23] and drawn by his uncle or something,

[49:25] that comic Axe Cop.

[49:26] Axe Cop, yeah.

[49:27] Not nearly, like, sorry, kid.

[49:30] Sorry, Lil' Kid, but Laserwolf beat you to the punch, dude.

[49:36] So, the team runs around the streets.

[49:39] Batman, again, traditionally doesn't use guns,

[49:43] goes ape shit with all kinds of guns.

[49:45] He uses the guns on his tank,

[49:47] and then after he's done using that shit,

[49:49] he takes alien guns and starts blasting them

[49:51] with their own shit.

[49:52] It's fucking nuts.

[49:54] He, like, shoots them all in the head and shit.

[49:56] He's probably like, thank God, I've been mean to you.

[50:00] shoot dudes couldn't do it because they're humans but since you guys are

[50:03] parademons i'd go crazy

[50:05] yet it just as you uh... walk on two legs and have faces doesn't mean you're

[50:10] not just animals i can blast to pieces with these lasers

[50:13] and the parademons

[50:14] they don't put up the best showing you've got to imagine

[50:17] that at some point in the history of the many thousands of years the dark side

[50:20] has been common worlds

[50:21] someone's gotten a hold of one of these laser guns on another planet

[50:24] and

[50:25] done some damage to the parademons the parademons are the most canonist of fodder

[50:29] yeah yeah

[50:30] the so we have a battle like everybody gets a chance to do some fun cool stuff

[50:35] whatever

[50:36] uh...

[50:37] but it all boils down to

[50:39] the majority i think it was around the point that aquaman impaled two

[50:42] parademons

[50:43] with his trident and there was green blood everywhere that i was like i think

[50:48] i do want my daddy's dc heroes

[50:52] you're like is there a different cut of this

[50:56] is there a cut of this where the heroes take less glee and slaughter

[50:59] yeah is there a cut of this that's just the iron giant

[51:04] so uh... it boils down to

[51:07] wonder woman aquaman and cyborg

[51:10] in that reactor while the

[51:12] the mother boxes are sinking up as you can see there's a little status bar

[51:16] above them and it's almost full

[51:19] and steppenwolf shows up and we have a battle steppenwolf is super tough

[51:23] uh... they keep trying to get him away from the box it's not a terrible action

[51:26] sequence

[51:27] i'd i'd kinda like the idea that they keep just trying to like lead this tough

[51:30] guy away from the box so cyborg can uh... i guess meld with it or whatever

[51:35] it's a good setup i did in my notes i did write pretty dull

[51:38] yeah uh... okay cool

[51:40] it's a it's a i think

[51:42] after you've seen one fight in a dark

[51:44] warehouse of these guys punching each other to see another one it's like

[51:49] make it look a little bit of course

[51:53] and cyborg's plan seems to be like yeah

[51:55] jump into the unity

[51:57] question mark question mark question mark

[51:58] save world yeah

[52:00] like so meanwhile and meanwhile i know computers i'm like donatello i know

[52:03] machines i can stop the unity and meanwhile flash is running circles

[52:06] around this thing he's just waiting for the go ahead so he can touch cyborg on

[52:10] the shoulder and they can activate they can de unity it or push him into the

[52:16] unit he's he's gonna give him some kind of super chef you allow him to enter the

[52:19] unity and become a being of your information that's a yes he's he has to

[52:23] have a wonder woman needs to like uh... you know the on all fours like bach

[52:28] likes like

[52:30] uh... to trip cyborg behind them you'll shove them into the unity

[52:34] and uh... it's got to be a surprise or else it doesn't work yeah that's unity

[52:38] rules

[52:39] and things are looking

[52:40] at their worst unity's happening

[52:43] flash gets blasted by an alien cannon

[52:46] and uh... steppenwolf

[52:48] uh... is ascendant at this point and then of course

[52:52] that's when superman shows up

[52:53] he takes a steppenwolf axe to the check

[52:56] the chest he's like mm unimpressive i don't care

[52:59] and then he proceeds to beat the shit out of steppenwolf

[53:03] he starts blasting his armor off with his laser beams it's kind of fucked up i'm

[53:07] like whoa chill out dude it's cool

[53:10] it feels like every movie about how bad revenge is

[53:14] where you're like yeah i can't wait to see this guy get revenge and then they

[53:17] torture the bad guy and you're like this is not

[53:20] oh this was an anti-revenge movie because i feel bad now immediately

[53:24] audrey's like i kind of feel bad for steppenwolf now

[53:29] yeah superman is wailing on him and then he like lasers off one of his

[53:34] horns and i'm like that's part of his body dude he's bleeding

[53:38] i think it is part of his helmet

[53:39] you think it's part of his head? yeah there's blood all over the place

[53:43] oh i didn't even notice the blood yeah it's crazy

[53:47] yeah elliot had to close his eyes because it was too scary

[53:50] yeah i think the part where superman picked up the last photo that steppenwolf

[53:54] owned of his mother and then burned it with his laser vision was a bit much

[53:57] steppenwolf's like bartholomew

[54:02] he's just calling up girls steppenwolf had crushes on in high school and telling

[54:05] them what a loser steppenwolf is

[54:07] savage right oh it's crazy so flash realizes oh no uh despite

[54:14] beating the trash out of steppenwolf it's not enough

[54:17] the unity's happened the portal's opening

[54:21] there's only one thing you can do that's right run fast enough to rewind time a

[54:25] little bit so he can fix it again not into this and

[54:29] it's like a weird like prog metal album cover of

[54:32] the flash running super fast hit cyborg and cyborg goes into the unity you're so

[54:38] bored by this and i have to admit like this is the one time

[54:41] where i felt like there are any like stakes in any of the

[54:45] the the fighting scene because like it you know like usually i'm not into like

[54:50] the whole like oh the one thing i've always tried to

[54:54] avoid doing is the one thing i must do it

[54:56] but like it did have a nice feeling of at least like this part

[55:00] of it had some sort of import especially because like

[55:03] the flash has just been like severely injured and he's pushing himself so hard

[55:08] and you've seen the mother box scour the earth of living beings yeah i kind of

[55:12] like this as the road reconstitutes in front of his

[55:17] feet now just to provide a competing opinion

[55:20] to dan's dan i know knows all about stakes and not just because he's such a

[55:23] devotee of don shula and his eponymous steak chain which again is a

[55:28] pretty good steak chain i mean i call it maybe a

[55:30] solid three after of course morton's and ruth's chris i'm sure there's others

[55:34] i'm forgetting that maybe you're better than don shula's but if you're going to

[55:36] put tags on there that's like number 70 you know they're

[55:39] not even real steaks they're sandwiches anyway

[55:41] so is speaking so i took a i have to admit i took a break between the first

[55:46] half and the second half of this movie and watched another movie

[55:48] in between because i needed something else and i and this is gonna be a stealth

[55:52] recommendation because we're not doing recommendations this episode

[55:54] but i watched the movie straight time with dustin hoffman it's a movie from

[55:57] the 70s where he's a guy who gets out of jail

[56:00] tries to go straight cannot do it and falls back into crime again

[56:03] and there's a scene in that movie where he and harry dean stanton are robbing a

[56:07] jewelry store that dustin hoffman has previously

[56:09] brought his girlfriend to he showed her a watch that was

[56:12] too expensive for him to buy but one of his motives in robbing this jewelry

[56:15] store is he wants to get that watch for her

[56:17] and he's plotted it all out with harry dean stanton they have a minute and a

[56:20] half after the alarm goes off to get to the

[56:22] getaway car and and leave before the cops get there

[56:25] and he's dustin hoffman is smashing all the jewelry cases

[56:28] and he's looking for that watch and he cannot find it and he's screaming at the

[56:31] people who work at the store where's that watch there was a watch

[56:33] here where's that watch and harry dean stanton who doesn't know that dustin

[56:36] hoffman wants this watch for his girlfriend is yelling

[56:38] gotta go man gotta get out of here gotta get out of here man

[56:41] we gotta leave and dustin hoffman is losing it like smashing this

[56:44] stuff and just digging through the glass in the in the cases trying to find this

[56:47] watch well harry dean stanton's going gotta go

[56:50] gotta get out of here man and i was so in such suspense like the

[56:54] stakes in that moment were so high for me and i was so i was like cringing

[56:58] because i knew they had i was like get the hell out of there what are you doing

[57:00] yeah and then i watched the second half and i was like

[57:03] oh flash has got to run fast enough to go back in time to save our life on earth

[57:07] ho hum like so it was like there is there are stakes in this moment but

[57:11] there's still such if only harry dean stanton could run that

[57:14] fast i mean elliot when compared to another

[57:18] film yes you're correct i'm grading on a curve

[57:22] that exists within the film justice no and that's fair and that's fair but it

[57:26] pointed up to me seeing those two things back to back

[57:28] just kind of like how how little humanity there was in this

[57:32] it is on that big that big cosmic metaphorical level but i don't know what

[57:36] it's saying and so there's big stakes but it

[57:38] just couldn't match the stakes of like dustin hoffman looking for a watch that

[57:42] he couldn't find while harry dean stanton yells at him

[57:45] you know yeah so of course he touches cyborg cyborg goes into the box

[57:50] uh cyborg sees himself and his parents who are both dead

[57:55] and they're like hey we did it uh we can stay here forever and he's like

[57:59] not so fast guys you're the three mother boxes trying to trick me

[58:03] so he sticks his little hands in them and they turn into boxes

[58:06] like demons for a little bit then they turn into boxes and then

[58:09] cut to the real world superman's helping him pull those boxes apart

[58:13] just we see through a portal dark side is not happy he's like

[58:17] bumming out he's hanging out with the sod and i'm assuming granny goodness i

[58:20] can't really tell they don't name it looked like it was probably granny

[58:23] goodness so uh they managed to separate the boxes

[58:26] and then they beat the shit out of uh steppenwolf

[58:30] some more aquaman like spears him through the

[58:32] back and blood flies everywhere and then they like chuck him through the

[58:36] portal and wonder woman makes a point to like

[58:39] do a dope flip maneuver and chop his head off

[58:43] uh while he's flying and she chops it off so fast

[58:46] that both the body and the head fly through the portal at the same time

[58:51] to land at dark side's feet yeah as if just just to say like

[58:54] hey we're worse than you yes yeah yeah they send a message and dark side like

[59:01] like does a proper trap with his foot like wow has he been

[59:05] does he play soccer in his free time

[59:08] and he like smooshes he plays a lot of he does play a lot of soccer

[59:12] smushes the head a little bit and you're like whoa dude

[59:15] i know like you don't you're kind of an asshole

[59:19] i mean that's his character right but uh like

[59:22] you know this dude don't step on his face and this is

[59:25] he thinks that a dark side from the other team is going to come in and try

[59:28] and kick it away i get it i get it so and as everyone

[59:32] knows in soccer if you squish the ball you automatically win the game

[59:35] oh yeah yeah yeah the i so here's here's this is me

[59:39] this is me giving some script notes on a movie that is already finished and

[59:42] also re-edited once so it's been released twice yeah

[59:45] uh if you're gonna go when you're gonna go back and do another cut of it

[59:48] i still don't know why they chose steppenwolf as the bad guy

[59:52] rather than calaback because the movie is building up this theme of fathers and

[59:56] sons you have cyborg and his dad flash and his

[1:00:00] You have Superman and his memory of his dad.

[1:00:02] You have Bruce Wayne who never had a dad, but Alfred kind of functions as a father for him.

[1:00:06] Wonder Woman, she's a lady. She's dealing with her mom.

[1:00:08] That's how this movie works.

[1:00:09] If you're a boy, you deal with your dad. If you're a woman, you deal with your mom.

[1:00:12] And there's also a Lois Lane scene where she is missing a dead Superman,

[1:00:18] and she very clearly opens up a nightstand drawer, and there's a pregnancy test there.

[1:00:24] Yes. So it's like they're dealing with this thing of parentage.

[1:00:27] So why not have the bad guy be Calibac, Darkseid's actual son,

[1:00:32] who is always mad because he lives in the shadow of Orion,

[1:00:36] the secret son that Darkseid really likes more, even though he's dedicated to overthrowing Darkseid.

[1:00:41] Maybe they're saving them for the New Gods movie. I don't know.

[1:00:43] But it was like this is NFTs on the table that you're leaving here.

[1:00:47] Yeah.

[1:00:48] Zack Snyder's Justice League should have made it Calibac.

[1:00:50] And then it's like how brutal is he to squish his own son's head because he's disappointed in his son.

[1:00:55] That makes Darkseid even badder mother.

[1:00:57] But the worst mother of all?

[1:00:59] Probably it's Superman's mom who disappears from the movie

[1:01:02] and doesn't seem to want to spend time with her revived from the dead son anymore.

[1:01:05] It's John Jones.

[1:01:06] She's Marshmallow. That's what I'm telling you.

[1:01:08] That's fair. That's fair. That's true.

[1:01:09] But if he's going to keep up the ruse, he's got to keep taking Superman out for dinners and things like that.

[1:01:13] And arguing over who's going to pay the check and stuff.

[1:01:15] So Elliot's jumping on the front, right?

[1:01:17] So we have a little bit of hero moment.

[1:01:20] They all stand and they survey the world they've just saved.

[1:01:23] And now we are into epilogue.

[1:01:25] That's right. There's 30 minutes left, and that's the epilogue.

[1:01:28] Epilogue titled Daddy Issues.

[1:01:31] That's right.

[1:01:32] Aquaman's like, fuck this.

[1:01:34] I don't want to go back to Atlantis.

[1:01:36] I'm going to ride around in a truck.

[1:01:37] And you're like, fair, dude. That's cool.

[1:01:39] He says he's going to go visit his dad.

[1:01:41] That's more dad stuff.

[1:01:42] Yeah.

[1:01:43] Batman decides to turn the ruins of Wayne Manor into Justice League headquarters.

[1:01:49] OK, man, whatever.

[1:01:52] Flash gets a job while talking to his dad.

[1:01:56] I don't think he gets a job while talking to his dad.

[1:01:58] I think he announced it to his dad.

[1:02:00] They didn't hand him the letter while he was like, hey, can I do the job interview in the prison while I'm visiting my dad?

[1:02:07] I mean, he moves really fast.

[1:02:09] He could have done it at the same time.

[1:02:11] That's true. You're right.

[1:02:12] That's true. He gets a job in a crime lab.

[1:02:14] Speaking of labs, we see Star Labs briefly, and we realize that the guy who's been working for Dr. Stone this whole time was Ryan Choi, who specializes in nanotechnology.

[1:02:23] That's right, guys. It's the Atom.

[1:02:25] He's going to be in a future movie, I guess.

[1:02:27] I looked in the Wikipedia.

[1:02:30] They said that there was a proposed Atom spinoff that they didn't do.

[1:02:36] It just makes it even more glaring at the end, though, because that character has been given next to nothing to do for the entire movie.

[1:02:44] And then at the end, there's this little wink like, I'm important.

[1:02:47] Yeah.

[1:02:49] The Superman manages to get his mom's house back, and Bruce Wayne's there.

[1:02:56] And he's like, how do you do it, Bruce?

[1:02:58] And we've already established that Bruce Wayne is super rich.

[1:03:01] And he's like, I bought the bank, and you're like, oh, cool, I guess, dude.

[1:03:05] It's also like, why don't you just buy the house, dude?

[1:03:07] You got to flex.

[1:03:09] Exactly. The bank doesn't necessarily have an interest in keeping the house.

[1:03:13] The value of the house is what the bank is interested in.

[1:03:17] Yeah, fucking fix Flint's water, dude.

[1:03:20] This is why he's not only – he's just bad at being a billionaire, really, is what it is.

[1:03:28] They're like, hey, all these guys are giving money to fix Notre Dame.

[1:03:31] I bought France. Done.

[1:03:33] That's not going to solve the problem, Bruce.

[1:03:35] You're wasting all the money that could go to crime fighting.

[1:03:39] It's because every time Bruce Wayne tries to get any work done, like a Martian Manhunter shows up and talks to him.

[1:03:44] But we'll get there.

[1:03:45] Yeah, that's true. That is Philip Johnson Glasshouse.

[1:03:47] And he's all like, I don't want to cure cancer.

[1:03:50] I want to turn people into dinosaurs.

[1:03:52] That's right, referencing my own work.

[1:03:55] I don't know. I thought that was written by a popular comic book writer whose name I don't remember because I don't remember comics.

[1:04:00] I thought that was written by Anonymous Internet.

[1:04:03] It was written by the gestalt mind of Twitter.

[1:04:06] So they get the house back.

[1:04:09] We get a – Lex Luthor has managed to break out of Arkham Asylum.

[1:04:14] And he is hanging out on a cool yacht.

[1:04:17] And a little guy named Slade Wilson shows up.

[1:04:20] That's right. Deathstroke the Terminator.

[1:04:23] The coolest guy who has two cool names mushed together.

[1:04:26] He shows up. That's right. Joe Mancinello.

[1:04:29] He's only got one eye, but he's got probably two swords, maybe three.

[1:04:32] I don't see them all.

[1:04:34] And they're just hanging out on his yacht.

[1:04:36] And Lex Luthor, very twitchy, played by Jesse Eisenberg, is like, hey, I'm going to make it worth your while.

[1:04:43] Guess what? Batman is this guy Bruce Wayne.

[1:04:45] And you're like, no shit.

[1:04:46] He's been like super casual with that lately.

[1:04:49] He tells everybody who he is.

[1:04:52] Yeah, he doesn't give a shit anymore. He's old.

[1:04:54] And Deathstroke is like, ooh, I guess I will toast to that.

[1:04:57] And you're like, really? For real?

[1:04:59] I want to ask a question.

[1:05:01] Do you also agree with me, and maybe this is me being too nitpicky, that Deathstroke's futuristic eye patch looks dumber than if he was just wearing a cheapo costume eye patch that you would buy at a Halloween store?

[1:05:13] Yeah. Is that like a tactical eye patch?

[1:05:15] Is that the kind of eye patch they sell to dads who don't want to wear a normal Baby Bjorn?

[1:05:20] They want to wear one with like a fuckload of pouches?

[1:05:23] Well, that's Rob Liefeld's Baby Bjorn. It has all those pouches on it, yeah.

[1:05:27] I'm going to look it up.

[1:05:29] The tactical eye patch? Yeah.

[1:05:31] But guys, we're about to go into the epilogue that is actually a prologue for the next series.

[1:05:37] You are correct, though. This looks like he has some electrical tape that he just went around his head with.

[1:05:44] Yeah, so this is the big additional scene, because I feel like the other one was like a post-credits scene.

[1:05:51] But this scene is Bruce Wayne is having one of his nightmares, and this is a future nightmare where he knows exactly what – he predicts the future.

[1:06:01] And this is set in another post-apocalyptic hellscape covered in parademons.

[1:06:04] And this is canon. It's well known in all of the different versions of Batman in all media that he has the power of premonition and is a seer who has visions of the future.

[1:06:12] Yeah, yeah. If you remember in Batman –

[1:06:15] Such a Pisces, right?

[1:06:17] Adam West's Batman was constantly going into trances and having visions of horrible futures.

[1:06:21] Batman animated series is very common.

[1:06:23] Come, Robin. Sit at the crystal ball with me.

[1:06:26] Robin, I've got a scrying glass.

[1:06:30] Oh, wow. We must cast the runes.

[1:06:33] Harvey Dent, can we trust him? Forget I asked that. I just saw 20 years in the future. We can't. He turns into Two-Face.

[1:06:40] I didn't know you had second sight, Batman. Why didn't you use that to save your parents?

[1:06:46] Hey, man, I'm a kid. Get off my – I was a kid then. Get off my back.

[1:06:49] You have second sight to not walk down a crime alley?

[1:06:54] I was too high on Zorro movies. I didn't know what I was doing.

[1:06:58] So the Batman is hanging out in a post-apocalyptic future desert-type place.

[1:07:06] Of course, he is still dressed up as Batman, but he's wearing a coat and he has goggles, which is kind of cool.

[1:07:12] He's now a steampunk Batman.

[1:07:14] And he's carrying an assault rifle, which I'm like, okay, I guess at this point he doesn't care.

[1:07:19] I should just give up in this argument.

[1:07:22] I'm just a killer now.

[1:07:24] Do you know the post-apocalyptic world because the air is tinged yellow as if they are living in a tank of urine,

[1:07:29] which ironically makes it the most colorful scene in the entire movie?

[1:07:34] Yeah, it's got the ochre tint that any American movie that is set in Mexico uses, which is fucked up.

[1:07:43] So they're hanging out on like a ruined highway.

[1:07:50] We get a post-apocalyptic version of Batman.

[1:07:53] We have Mira from Atlantis who is mourning the death of Jason Momoa, which I get it.

[1:07:59] He's great.

[1:08:00] Will of Aquaman.

[1:08:01] Yeah.

[1:08:02] Not the actor Jason Momoa.

[1:08:04] That would be weird.

[1:08:05] They can't exist in the same universe.

[1:08:08] There's Slade Wilson is there with a mohawk, and you're like, I just saw you without a mohawk.

[1:08:14] I guess time's fast.

[1:08:16] Who else do we have?

[1:08:17] Cyborg.

[1:08:18] Cyborg.

[1:08:19] We have the Flash in like a weird metal suit.

[1:08:22] And it's not clear at first that the Flash is with them, and then you get a close-up of him later in the scene out of nowhere.

[1:08:27] And I was like, oh, I guess the Flash is with them.

[1:08:29] I guess they didn't want to introduce Johnny Quick or something.

[1:08:32] Is that metal suit part of the Flash background that I don't know?

[1:08:36] Is that like a comedy pit?

[1:08:38] I think it's just more general post-apocalyptic stuff.

[1:08:41] But the most important character is right there.

[1:08:47] Academy Award winner Jared Leto as the Joker.

[1:08:51] Mr. Joker.

[1:08:53] He somehow managed to get his tattoos scrubbed from his body.

[1:08:58] Part of his reform program, I guess, was the tattoo removal.

[1:09:01] Now, according to the internet, this is the greatest Batman Joker scene in any media.

[1:09:06] Do you guys agree with that assessment?

[1:09:08] Because after you tell yours, I'll tell you how I feel about it.

[1:09:11] Is that really how they're reacting to it?

[1:09:14] This is just like an unpleasant scene, and it's unnecessary because all of this is setting up sequels that will not happen in the form that they originally were planned.

[1:09:25] So if anything should not be in this movie, it's this stuff.

[1:09:30] Yes, and I would also go as far as to say that if they had changed the name of the character, instead of addressing Jared Leto as Joker, they had addressed him as Jim Carrey.

[1:09:40] I would have been like, yeah, that's who he is.

[1:09:43] He's just doing a bad impression of Jim Carrey.

[1:09:45] And I kind of like this post-apocalyptic world where the Joker has died and Jim Carrey has taken his place.

[1:09:50] He played him once.

[1:09:52] Why not play him in real life?

[1:09:54] Like the Riddler. Come on.

[1:09:56] Oh, that's right.

[1:09:58] The Riddler is just a...

[1:10:00] It's just cut rate Joker, you know.

[1:10:02] Definitely.

[1:10:03] You're right.

[1:10:04] I'm sorry.

[1:10:05] I can't believe I got that wrong.

[1:10:06] It was the Riddler.

[1:10:07] It seems like a real waste that he didn't play the Joker, but he kind of is since Jared

[1:10:10] Leto is so clearly channeling him to do this.

[1:10:12] Yeah.

[1:10:13] And it's a scene where like the Joker's talking shit.

[1:10:15] They seem to be unlikely allies, even though the Joker is wearing a bandolier of like police

[1:10:20] badges, I'm assuming from police people he's killed.

[1:10:24] And the.

[1:10:25] Yeah.

[1:10:26] And they like they have the verbal sparring of talking about other characters that are

[1:10:31] dead.

[1:10:32] And now Joker says that Batman caused all this by letting her die.

[1:10:37] And of course, the her we have to assume is Lois Lane or maybe Lana Lang.

[1:10:42] It could be any number of female characters from D.C. who have two L names.

[1:10:45] And they also mentioned that Harley Quinn died.

[1:10:47] And there's mention of a boy wonder.

[1:10:50] Hmm.

[1:10:51] Interesting.

[1:10:52] Who could that be?

[1:10:53] Perhaps a baby dinosaur.

[1:10:54] It's quite quite a wonder of a boy.

[1:10:56] I guess the baby dinosaur was not really was not really clear, which is fine.

[1:11:00] We don't need to know it.

[1:11:01] You know, that's that's up to them, you know.

[1:11:04] But this this whole scene, it just feels like it is a like it is in a movie that kind of

[1:11:08] verges on fan fiction at times.

[1:11:10] This feels like the most fan fictiony scene to me, partly because it is not connected

[1:11:16] to anything else in the film.

[1:11:17] So it kind of feels like they're just like, let's go crazy.

[1:11:20] Let's go nuts.

[1:11:21] These characters.

[1:11:22] I think we're like the scene ends where, like, Batman's like, I'm going to fucking

[1:11:26] kill you.

[1:11:27] I don't care.

[1:11:28] Like what?

[1:11:29] Like, you don't have to impress me, movie.

[1:11:32] I know you're bad ass.

[1:11:33] It's also it's one of the it's the same issue I had with with Harley Quinn and Suicide Squad

[1:11:38] where I was like, what is the power that this person brings to the table?

[1:11:42] Not that Harley Quinn is an amazing fighter and a great gal, but that you have this team

[1:11:47] of superpowered individuals.

[1:11:49] And I fail to see what power the Joker brings to it, because he's the kind of guy who's

[1:11:53] like good at committing crimes.

[1:11:55] But he's not like he's good.

[1:11:56] He's not good in a fight necessarily.

[1:11:58] And unless he's got a lot of henchmen and an unlimited budget for stuff like he's not

[1:12:03] he's not really going to help you that much, you know, unless he's got a full like team

[1:12:07] building a giant Joker faced monolith.

[1:12:10] Oh, this is this is a oh man, if I ever get to pitch this to DC, I would love to that

[1:12:14] Joker is basically like a Christo type artist who comes up with big ideas and it's up to

[1:12:19] his team to execute them.

[1:12:21] But he gets all the credit for it.

[1:12:22] And he's like, he's like, Hmm, I want to I want to blow up smiles on Mount Rushmore on

[1:12:27] all the presidents make this happen team.

[1:12:29] And they're like, All right, let's do some research into what kind of explosives will

[1:12:32] make it make the right impact without blowing up the heads of the presidents.

[1:12:35] I guess Joker's too busy doing interviews on the gallery circuit.

[1:12:39] You know?

[1:12:40] Yeah.

[1:12:41] So I mean, somebody's got to do the work, you know?

[1:12:42] Yeah.

[1:12:43] And that's why he's Yeah, a bad suicide squad member, or like a team member or anything

[1:12:48] member like, because it's just like, well, he's very good at something, but that something

[1:12:53] is sort of like, just spreading chaos and looking out for himself.

[1:12:57] So yeah, that's not, you know, you don't want that on a team that's gonna do anything.

[1:13:02] And he's not even there.

[1:13:03] It's like the funny morale builder, because as we've seen over the past several Batman

[1:13:07] related movies, the Joker stopped being funny at a certain point, like he stopped being

[1:13:11] good at telling jokes.

[1:13:13] And so it's not even like you'd be like, Well, he's crazy.

[1:13:17] He doesn't add much in a fight, and he might murder all of us.

[1:13:19] But you know what, sometimes you just gotta laugh and blow off steam, you know?

[1:13:24] So you should you're suggesting they just change his name to like, twisted guy or something?

[1:13:29] Yeah, yeah.

[1:13:30] Damaged.

[1:13:31] That's his name is just like his tattoo says, you know, I mean, before it got scrubbed off

[1:13:35] by I guess the sand that was blowing everywhere.

[1:13:39] Now he's essentially, he's essentially just Hot Topic, the man, you know, that's that's

[1:13:43] basically what he is.

[1:13:44] So after that, we have Bruce Wayne wakes up from this horrible premonition nightmare.

[1:13:50] He's in his beautiful lakeside home when I wonder, I wish I wish he had looked at the

[1:13:56] camera and said, That's it.

[1:13:58] No more hoagies for dinner.

[1:14:00] And that was the end of the movie, right?

[1:14:02] Because hoagies are the regional food of Gotham City.

[1:14:05] Maybe they call them grinders there.

[1:14:08] I don't know.

[1:14:09] I've never been there.

[1:14:10] Yeah.

[1:14:11] And he goes out on his little deck.

[1:14:13] A figure is flying down.

[1:14:15] You're like, Oh, cool.

[1:14:16] He's gonna say hi to his buddy, Superman.

[1:14:17] Nope.

[1:14:18] This is a person he's never met before.

[1:14:21] It's Martian Manhunter.

[1:14:22] Maybe he has met him, but met Martian Manhunter before.

[1:14:24] We don't know.

[1:14:25] Martian Manhunter could be anyone.

[1:14:26] He reacts as if he has not seen him.

[1:14:27] And he does introduce himself at the end of the conversation, so I'm guessing they haven't

[1:14:30] met.

[1:14:31] I don't think that I mean, Batman, you know, maybe not the best tactical move when you're

[1:14:35] in the line of work that you are to just like sort of wander out to a strange alien

[1:14:40] who's floating down at you, you know, just wearing your PJs because you don't have powers.

[1:14:47] He doesn't have powers.

[1:14:48] Although he's.

[1:14:49] No, no, he can.

[1:14:50] He does have the power to see the future, and he knows he lived to destroy the world.

[1:14:53] So that's true.

[1:14:54] Martian Manhunter is not going to just put even easily Martian Manhunter could just push

[1:14:57] him off that deck.

[1:14:58] And I mean, a regular person could do that.

[1:15:00] Oh, wow.

[1:15:02] Yeah.

[1:15:03] So Martian Manhunter shows up.

[1:15:04] They have like a cool little chat.

[1:15:06] And then Martian Manhunter flies off and music swells.

[1:15:10] End of movie.

[1:15:12] After saying my favorite line in the movie, he goes, What's your name?

[1:15:16] Some have called.

[1:15:17] I've gone by many names.

[1:15:18] Some have called me Martian Manhunter.

[1:15:21] And I was like, impossible.

[1:15:23] That is an impossible name to say seriously in that way, because at least.

[1:15:29] And what gets me what gets me is, is the Martian part of it.

[1:15:32] Bruce Wayne should have been like, bullshit.

[1:15:35] I call shenanigans, buddy.

[1:15:37] I call nobody either.

[1:15:39] Nobody calls you that or they call you that as a joke.

[1:15:42] He said they call me the Manhunter and and Bruce Wayne was like, all right, some kind

[1:15:46] of Martian Manhunter.

[1:15:47] Like the fact that he owns Martian as the name that he introduces people with seems

[1:15:51] silly to me.

[1:15:52] But you know, it's like when I go when I go to another country and I'm like, hello, I'm

[1:15:58] American Dan.

[1:15:59] And they're like, American Dan, you're hilarious.

[1:16:02] I'm like, no, thanks, but I am not that popular except for the McFarlane show.

[1:16:07] Yeah, it's the and also we haven't seen him hunt any men.

[1:16:11] Yeah. And we don't.

[1:16:12] This is the first we learn he's from Mars, to be honest.

[1:16:14] Like he could be just a human who has superpowers.

[1:16:17] So it's almost like he should have been like some call me Martian mom impersonator and

[1:16:22] then flew off into space.

[1:16:24] Sure. We've seen him do.

[1:16:25] It's true. We would all buy it.

[1:16:27] So are you saying that like it's kind of like some call me some call me Martian

[1:16:31] hunter flies off into space?

[1:16:33] Oh, wow.

[1:16:34] Oh, watch out.

[1:16:35] So do you think he's do you think he's like approaching this where he's like, time to

[1:16:39] reinvent yourself, John Jones?

[1:16:42] This is like the first day of camp.

[1:16:44] I got to give myself a cool ass nickname.

[1:16:46] And Bruce Wayne's like, Laser Wolf was right there.

[1:16:49] Why did you call yourself Martian Manhunter?

[1:16:52] Should have said the idea that that Martian Manhunter beforehand is psyching himself up

[1:16:57] in the mirror. And he's like, come on, come on.

[1:16:59] You got to show him you're just as good as them.

[1:17:00] You deserve to be on their team.

[1:17:01] You can do this. And you're going to give him the cool name.

[1:17:03] You're going to say some call me, oh, what are they going to call me?

[1:17:08] I'll think of it on the flight over.

[1:17:09] I'll think of it.

[1:17:10] And if Bruce Wayne presses me on what I've accomplished, I can tell them I convinced

[1:17:14] Lois Lane to get back into journalism.

[1:17:20] I think it also it points to a I would say a shallow bench in some ways of the D.C.

[1:17:28] heroes that they're already I mean, they've done a bunch of movies already, but that they're

[1:17:31] at Martian Manhunter, but they're still treating him as if the audience at home after they

[1:17:36] who after they've seen Superman, Batman, Flash, one woman like superheroes, the average

[1:17:41] American, I'm sure, is aware of the name, at least.

[1:17:43] Yeah, that after at Martian Manhunter, they're going to be like, yeah, OK, Martian Manhunter.

[1:17:49] I think I was like 30 years old before I ever heard the words Martian Manhunter put

[1:17:53] together because he's a goofy character.

[1:17:55] Strung together, he has all the powers of Superman, plus shapeshifting, plus telepathy.

[1:18:01] And they're like, but he has a big weakness.

[1:18:04] Fire. OK, that's my weakness, too, dude.

[1:18:06] Like that's not that crazy.

[1:18:08] We see silver bullets.

[1:18:09] The but what about is Metamorpho a D.C.

[1:18:13] character? I would have loved if it was Metamorpho, but he's goofy.

[1:18:16] He there's he just he's goofy and he looks insane.

[1:18:19] What about there's no way. What about Deadman?

[1:18:21] Is Deadman a D.C.

[1:18:22] character? Deadman is a D.C.

[1:18:23] character, Boston brand.

[1:18:24] Yep. He's just a floating corpse that can that can sometimes possess people's bodies.

[1:18:28] All great options. Detective Chimp.

[1:18:31] Bring him in. Why not?

[1:18:32] Yeah. What about the metal men?

[1:18:35] They bring out bring all the metal men in and bring in the creeper.

[1:18:38] Why not? But it's I think what about the heckler?

[1:18:41] He's funny. Yeah.

[1:18:42] Why not? But I think it I guess maybe I am being hypocritical because at the end of the

[1:18:48] first Avengers movie, I was super psyched to see Thanos and I had to know that most of

[1:18:52] the audience would not know who Thanos was.

[1:18:54] So maybe there is somebody out there who just loves Martian Manhunter, never thought

[1:18:58] they'd see Martian Manhunter in a live action movie and was just super psyched, let alone

[1:19:01] saying his own name, saying his own name as if it wasn't a goofy ass name that could

[1:19:07] only have come out of the 1960s.

[1:19:10] Now, imagine the end of Avengers when Thanos turns his face to the camera and he's

[1:19:14] like, I'm Thanos.

[1:19:18] That would have been stupid.

[1:19:19] I think it's also the some call me because you expect something pretty legendary and

[1:19:25] badass off of some call me.

[1:19:27] But if he was if he just said, I'm the Martian Manhunter and flown off, it wouldn't

[1:19:31] have been as silly as some have called me the have called me Martian Manhunter.

[1:19:35] And it's like, did your friends call you that?

[1:19:37] It's a weird thing to call somebody.

[1:19:39] OK, guys, let's do final judgments, whether this is a good, bad movie, a bad, bad movie,

[1:19:45] a movie you kind of like.

[1:19:46] I actually have a lot of thoughts, so I'm going to go fast, try and go fast here.

[1:19:51] I apologize that I took up so much time on Martian Manhunter and Fiddler on the Roof.

[1:19:56] I just like, look, this movie is fine.

[1:19:58] It's fine. You know, it's.

[1:20:00] better than the other one, which was not a high bar to clear, but sure.

[1:20:04] And like, I, I do think that it's kind of strange.

[1:20:06] Like I'm not necessarily one who subscribes so much to the view of like,

[1:20:12] it is in, it is inherently bad that this was a cut that was made because like,

[1:20:20] because it's going to like encourage bad behavior in the future, bad

[1:20:24] behavior is going to continue.

[1:20:25] I'm not going to like that bad behavior, but I don't necessarily think that this

[1:20:29] is like a repeatable like lesson in that way, where it's like, okay,

[1:20:34] it sounds like somebody who doesn't want to release the gun cut.

[1:20:37] Well, that was just like, okay, the IRS cut the heirs cut.

[1:20:40] That's what it is.

[1:20:40] The heirs cut like DC had all like the companies, the production companies,

[1:20:46] like they had all this stuff already.

[1:20:49] Like it was mostly existing footage.

[1:20:52] And so for like a little bit of a small investment, they get to double dip.

[1:20:57] Like they get to release it right now during a pandemic where like, it's

[1:21:01] going to make this huge splash.

[1:21:03] Like, I don't think this is necessarily like the repeatable scenario that's

[1:21:07] going to make us like scared about, uh, idiots being bullying on the internet.

[1:21:13] I mean, and on top of that, like, you know, if this was like a better, more

[1:21:18] respected director, like if this was like us being like people like on Twitter

[1:21:22] being like, Oh, release the, uh, the original Robert Altman cut that you

[1:21:29] butchered, I was going to say old men too.

[1:21:32] Yeah.

[1:21:32] Like, I mean, like the old men justice league, uh, I mean, that would have been

[1:21:36] a very different movie, Robert Altman's justice league, the differences were

[1:21:40] sound recording.

[1:21:41] The difference is like, don't be a dick.

[1:21:43] Don't be like an asshole about it.

[1:21:46] Don't like want these things for like shitty reasons, but like inherently

[1:21:50] like wanting this cut is not so bad.

[1:21:53] It's just a little weird because we kind of have a platform on the internet and we

[1:21:58] are occasionally assholes, I guess.

[1:22:00] I don't know.

[1:22:01] I don't think so.

[1:22:02] But like, uh, and I feel, it just feels weird to like complain to the movie

[1:22:08] people to like, give you what you, I mean, complaining is one is, is one thing.

[1:22:14] And that's, that's our right as Americans to complain.

[1:22:16] But when, to get to the point of threatening people and harassing them

[1:22:19] in their private lives, I'm trying to make a division between like the

[1:22:23] behavior and like, uh, you know, like I, the fact, just like the fact of the

[1:22:30] movie existing, I like, like the fact that it exists doesn't bother me.

[1:22:34] Like, uh, necessarily from the idea of like, this is where it

[1:22:38] all falls apart or something.

[1:22:40] Uh, but like you're saying since people already tried to violently overthrow

[1:22:44] the government, maybe Zack Snyder's justice league is not the tipping point.

[1:22:46] Exactly.

[1:22:47] But, um, I mean, as for the movie itself, I don't know, like, it's weird.

[1:22:51] Like I've had people on the internet, like accused me of not liking superhero

[1:22:55] movies and like, if anything, I feel like I'm the least tired of them, of

[1:22:59] the three of us on the show.

[1:23:01] Like this is like, I like stuff like this.

[1:23:05] And I, but I think that people who sort of, I feel like it's, if I point out

[1:23:13] that something's a little silly, comic book fans and particularly comic book

[1:23:18] fans of the Zack Snyder stripe might like be upset that like, I'm not taking

[1:23:24] the thing seriously, which is not like the, it's not an issue of me like

[1:23:31] taking it seriously or not.

[1:23:33] I'm just recognizing that like a thing is silly and you can still

[1:23:37] find value in a silly thing.

[1:23:38] You can enjoy a silly thing.

[1:23:40] Like to like have discourse over.

[1:23:42] This doesn't mean that like I am destroying your identity as a

[1:23:46] person who likes this thing.

[1:23:48] Like, you know, like there's silly stuff in comic books and

[1:23:51] that's why I like comic books.

[1:23:53] And if anything, my problem is like, this isn't silly enough.

[1:23:57] I would prefer a sillier, more fun movie because I think that Zack Snyder's

[1:24:04] one big idea that he like keeps trying to hammer home in this is like, Oh, what

[1:24:10] if like superheroes were lonely gods?

[1:24:13] And you know what?

[1:24:14] That's not that interesting an idea because it doesn't really shed

[1:24:17] any life light on like humanity.

[1:24:20] Like, it's not like I like look at that.

[1:24:21] I'm like, Oh yeah, yeah.

[1:24:22] And now I understand something about the world that I live in.

[1:24:26] Like it doesn't do anything beyond the level of like a spectacle.

[1:24:32] Yeah.

[1:24:32] That being said, I kind of liked it.

[1:24:36] Elliot, what do you have to say?

[1:24:38] Well, I, I'm of two minds on it.

[1:24:41] Uh, three minds.

[1:24:42] I'll give you all three minds.

[1:24:43] They're all mother boxes and they're combined in a beautiful unity that

[1:24:45] will wipe out all life on earth.

[1:24:47] Uh, by the end of my judgment, I think, uh, one, obviously that I am.

[1:24:52] It's when it comes down to it, I am not bothered by the idea of, uh, movies

[1:24:57] being recut and money being paid to people to do the work because people

[1:25:01] need work, these are tough times.

[1:25:02] Like give them work.

[1:25:04] I think also that the way it was, uh, lobbied was often horrifying and

[1:25:09] disgusting and there is no movie in the history of the world that is worth.

[1:25:14] Uh, well, that too, but that's, that's worth harassing us with three episodes.

[1:25:21] That's worth harassing people over unless maybe it's that movie from that one

[1:25:24] episode of masters of horror, that was a John Carpenter who did it where it's

[1:25:27] that, that, uh, film that drives people, drives people mad.

[1:25:30] Maybe that's worth harassing people for it.

[1:25:32] Cause it's like an angel getting his wings cut off, which is pretty edgy, but,

[1:25:35] and I don't mean edgy cause it's a knife that they use to cut the wings off.

[1:25:38] Uh, so separating all from separating, looking at just as a movie, like you're

[1:25:43] saying, separating it from the process of its creation and saying also that.

[1:25:47] It is money they could have invested into like a new movie, which would have

[1:25:50] been more preferable to me in some way.

[1:25:53] This is a movie that I'm of two minds about, and I feel like I did a disservice

[1:25:57] by splitting it up and watching a better movie straight time.

[1:26:00] Sorry, it doesn't have an in the middle of it because the first half of it, I

[1:26:03] was like, or the first two and a half hours, I was like, you know what, I'm

[1:26:06] actually liking this a little bit.

[1:26:08] It's not totally to my taste.

[1:26:09] It's very Zack Snydery and his style is not my style.

[1:26:13] And I don't, I also am not so into nonstop mopey depressed superheroes, which is

[1:26:19] weird coming from a Spider-Man fan, the most mopey depressed superhero comics,

[1:26:23] but at least he tells jokes sometimes, but the farther the movie got into itself,

[1:26:29] the more it became beholden to this Steppenwolf mother box plot and the

[1:26:32] more it just became gobbledygook.

[1:26:35] And the spectacle didn't do it for me because the spectacle was so repetitive

[1:26:39] and so just like dark and how many times am I going to see the superheroes

[1:26:45] beating up on parademons that are no threat to them and then fighting the

[1:26:49] same, mostly personality lists.

[1:26:52] He had more personality in the original cut, but Steppenwolf, the end until

[1:26:56] Superman comes in and as we said before, just like an angry fist of, of a divine

[1:27:02] wrath with no humanity behind him just beats up this guy.

[1:27:05] It felt like the, the second, watching the second half of the movie, it felt

[1:27:08] like, which was shorter, felt like more of a slog than the first half.

[1:27:12] And I would have really just wanted is more humanity and more color

[1:27:17] from it, more life from it.

[1:27:18] And when it has those flashes of life and personality, I'm like, Oh yeah,

[1:27:21] this is not so bad, but it doesn't have enough to justify four hours.

[1:27:26] People complained about the length of like the Irishman, but the Irishman is

[1:27:29] so packed full of like stuff and moments and is so easy to look at that.

[1:27:35] The Irishman is a movie where like it both, it both feels too long to me, but

[1:27:40] also I don't know what I would cut from it.

[1:27:43] Not even that fucking scene where he like curb stomps that dude and he's

[1:27:48] supposed to be a young guy, but he's clearly the oldest man in the universe.

[1:27:51] I mean, that's what I would cut is the flashbacks to world war two, where I'm

[1:27:54] like, Oh, they were driving guys in their fifties to go to world war two at that

[1:27:57] point, but I guess he lied on the enlisted form and said he was 22.

[1:28:02] But Elliot, I, I, I did have the same experience though.

[1:28:05] I also watched the movie in two parts, just, you know, so it would be more

[1:28:09] fresh, you know, each part when we were recording, so you wouldn't go

[1:28:12] mad like a Lovecraft hero.

[1:28:13] Yeah.

[1:28:14] But, um, but I also found that like the first half had most of the

[1:28:19] stuff that I enjoyed in the movie.

[1:28:21] And then as it went on, like, yeah, it just, it was, it sort of devolved into

[1:28:26] like a bunch of like gray stuff swirling around, but that's also a flaw

[1:28:30] endemic to modern superhero movies.

[1:28:32] The last third of almost any modern superhero movie is the least

[1:28:35] interesting, even in Marvel movies, aside from like end game, maybe the

[1:28:40] last third is usually like, we got to shut off this blue light before things

[1:28:43] come out of it, you know, or something.

[1:28:45] And so I wonder if there's a, that's a flaw in the current interpretation of

[1:28:50] the genre that just becomes that much harder to sit through when it is so much

[1:28:55] when the last third of the movie is an hour and a half long, you know,

[1:28:58] Which is one of the things that I liked.

[1:29:00] I was just thinking about, uh, how in Dr.

[1:29:03] Strange, the ending kind of is like shutting off a blue light, but

[1:29:06] it isn't like a big battle.

[1:29:07] It's just like, I don't know, fucking like, it's like a bluffing game or

[1:29:12] something, a thought battle.

[1:29:13] Um, no, I'm with you.

[1:29:14] It, uh, I was surprised at how much more I liked the first half.

[1:29:19] Uh, because I mean, when, when I I'll admit that when I sat down to watch it,

[1:29:26] I was not particularly excited to watch a four hour Justice League cut.

[1:29:30] Cause I did not like the last cut and I have not liked either the

[1:29:34] previous, uh, Zack Snyder DC movies.

[1:29:38] Uh, but I ended up liking the first half.

[1:29:41] Okay.

[1:29:42] I mean, with my various other complaints aside, like I wasn't, I wasn't really

[1:29:48] bored, uh, but then the second half was, it was just a little bit rough.

[1:29:54] Uh, and it is like, it is so beholden to the plot that like writing down notes for

[1:29:59] it, I.

[1:30:00] really like to take notes for it I could you know go 20 minutes and then be like

[1:30:06] yeah so they I guess they fight this guy for a while and then like Superman's

[1:30:10] unhappy like it was there just isn't that much there really isn't that much

[1:30:15] to it and it and it is it's it's not it's not a good movie I feel like if

[1:30:21] you're if you're dying for a superhero spectacle there's better options if this

[1:30:27] yeah it's not for me it doesn't speak to me bad bad is what I would say and I

[1:30:32] wonder if I wonder if it would speak to me more if these were characters that I

[1:30:36] yeah that's possible more of a connection to because again I'm a Marvel

[1:30:39] zombie it's in my blood it's in my bones but uh at that but then it is a it's an

[1:30:44] irritating aspect of modern popular culture right now that I feel like I

[1:30:47] have to watch a four-hour movie about characters I don't really feel a

[1:30:51] connection to to be to like get what's going on and unfortunately what it makes

[1:30:55] me feel like is it makes me feel like a comic book reader in the 90s where it

[1:30:58] was like I guess I gotta buy every book that Marvel's coming out with this month

[1:31:01] so that I know what's going on in the Marvel Universe and to talk about it

[1:31:04] even though I don't really care that much what's going on with Excalibur

[1:31:08] right now you know or what's what's happening with with the new warriors you

[1:31:12] know it's we've reached the point in comic book movies where we were with

[1:31:16] comic books 30 years ago during the like speculator boom yeah and as someone who

[1:31:21] came of age during that time I'm just saying there's gonna be a spider clone

[1:31:25] movie guys and it's gonna be bad and it's gonna be like 20 hours long so just

[1:31:29] gird your loins for it for this endless spider looks clone movie that is bound

[1:31:33] to happen well okay so it is very late here and

[1:31:38] Stewart has a job that requires them to stand upright during the day and for

[1:31:44] long stretches so I'm gonna do most of your job lying down right well I could

[1:31:51] in a seated position only because it's only because it's Passover right now

[1:31:57] Stewart that's why he does his job reclining on a pillow yeah but as a

[1:32:02] mercy killing for Stewart I'm gonna shoot this episode and end the show

[1:32:08] it's very Superman of you yeah very Batman of you thank you to Jordan

[1:32:14] Cowling for producing the show the best you the maximum fun our network I go to

[1:32:20] maximum fun org to find a bunch of other great podcasts I am NOT just a

[1:32:27] podcaster I listen to many podcasts and very many of them are maximum fun

[1:32:33] podcasts and you know thanks guys for coming on this journey with us through

[1:32:39] two episodes of Justice League now we will never do it again no matter what

[1:32:46] other cut they do for the flop house I've been Dan McCoy hey I'm Stuart

[1:32:53] Wellington bye-bye some have called me Martian Elliot

[1:32:58] what and they didn't really call me the Martian part but I thought it sounded

[1:33:03] cool I expected when you said that you're gonna do a morph but you didn't

[1:33:06] you just stayed the same yeah I don't have that power just imagine that I'm

[1:33:10] someone's mom on this episode we discuss Zack Snyder's Justice League

[1:33:26] part two where we learn the valuable morals that were all stronger when we

[1:33:31] work together and also you can't cut Steppenwolf's head off till Superman

[1:33:36] punches him in the face a bunch of times

[1:33:41] maximum fun org comedy and culture artist owned audience supported

Ep. #339 - Zack Snyder's Justice League TWO: Pt 4 - Epilogue

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