Ep. #340 - The Final Programme, with Joel Hodgson and Matt McGinnis

Dan McCoy

[0:00] On this episode, we discuss the final program.

Stuart Wellington

[0:04] The first of many movies of the ECCU, Eternal Champion Cinematic Universe.

[0:30] Hey, everyone, and welcome to The Flophouse. I'm Dan McCoy.

Elliott Kalan

[0:41] Oh, hey, I'm Stuart Wellington.

[0:43] Hey, I'm Elliot Kalin in a different garage this episode, but you're not here to talk about what garage I'm in.

[0:48] You're here because we've got a very, very special guest on this episode today.

[0:53] He's a television visionary. He's a puppetry wizard. He's a master designer of magic tricks.

[0:58] He's a heck of a nice guy. You may know him best from Mystery Science Theater 3000 or from any of a number of other things.

[1:04] Cinematic Titanic, TV Wheel, Mystery Science Theater, other stuff.

[1:10] Anyway, he is my former boss and yours, Joel Hodgson. Joel, thank you so much for joining us.

S3

[1:16] Hey, Stuart. Hi, Dan. Hi, Elliot. Thank you.

[1:19] I'm so happy to be on the podcast. Or I mean, the Flophouse podcast. That's right.

[1:27] Yeah, I wanted to brand it right off the bat. I'm so thrilled to be here. And yeah, Elliot and I worked together long and hard on the first 20 episodes of MST3K that were on Netflix. And it was a blast. And I'm so grateful for his help on it. He did an awesome job.

[1:47] Thank you.

[1:47] He was the head writer, man. And I couldn't have picked a better guy for the job. So thanks, man.

Dan McCoy

[1:53] Thank you. So do you think it was a bonus to his resume or to have this podcast, this bad movie podcast on it? Or were you like, ugh, this jerk trying to ride the bad movie train, riding my coattails. I started this.

S3

[2:08] It unfolded in front of me in a really unique way. And I did think about it. It did pass through my mind a little bit. But the way I felt about it is based on Elliot's character and my friendship with him. And I kind of went, yeah, this is good.

[2:29] I don't feel discounted. I don't feel, yeah, it doesn't feel slighted at all. I feel like it's some kind of embellishment in a good way. So I didn't get that feeling. I saw it as a good thing.

Elliott Kalan

[2:40] Oh, that's very sweet. I mean, this podcast, I'm sure, would not exist without the previous existence of Mystery Science Theater 2000, my favorite show ever.

[2:48] And I'll never forget the first time I met Joel, where we met at an incognito diner in New Jersey, I believe. And it was like we were spies that were meeting up for the first time.

[2:59] Was the diner incognito?

[3:01] Yeah, the diner was disguised as an auto repair shop.

S3

[3:04] It was Edison, New Jersey, the Skylark diner. And I've met, I've had some really important meetings there. I met Harold Buchholz, who was my, you know, executive producer for years on MST there.

[3:18] I met a lot of friends there. And it's peculiar. And I don't know if it's convenient, if you're in New York City, but it was convenient for me to come up to Edison. I live in Pennsylvania.

[3:28] So it was easy for me, but you had to take the train. And I'm sure there is a much more elegant way we could have met.

Elliott Kalan

[3:34] I think I had to take a train to a bus and then walk for a while after that. But it was, but it was worth it. It was worth it because I was meeting one of my heroes and it all lived up to my expectations.

[3:44] So Joel's here and he does not have anyone with him that he brought. Or does he?

S3

[3:51] Yeah, I brought a guest too. I thought it'd be fun. I wanted to even the odds a little bit. You guys have all this culture.

[3:57] You have all this history. And you guys like finish each other's sentences by this point. So I wanted to bring the guy I work with day in and day out. And he's a producer on MST 3K. And his name is Matt McGinnis. He's right behind this wall.

S5

[4:14] It's me. I'm here.

[4:18] Boy, that wall moved really quickly.

Stuart Wellington

[4:20] Yeah.

[4:21] There must have been a monster at the end of the book.

Elliott Kalan

[4:24] It's a pleasure to be here.

[4:26] Thank you so much, guys, for joining us. I like Joel. You said, Joel, you said we finish each other's sentences, which is a polite way of saying that I interrupt the other two guys constantly.

[4:36] And so you guys are on here not just because – Joel, Matt, thanks for being with us.

[4:40] You're here not just to talk about this very strange movie that we're going to talk about today, but also you are promoting something, which I feel like is kind of taking advantage of our friendship in a mercenary way.

[4:50] But, okay, that's fine.

[4:52] What's going on with Mystery Science Theater 3000?

S3

[4:55] We're about to do another Kickstarter for Mystery Science Theater.

[5:00] Don't tell anyone.

[5:01] It starts next week.

[5:02] What is this show?

[5:04] I mean, they think we're doing this live, right?

[5:07] People think that we're manufacturing this right in front of them.

Elliott Kalan

[5:10] Yeah, which is pretty crazy considering people – we're recording it.

[5:13] People start it and stop it throughout the day because it's a long show, but they still think it's live.

[5:17] They think that when they pause it that we're just waiting.

S3

[5:19] It's fine for them to control what we're doing, but if we try to, it's wrong.

S5

[5:25] Once they press play, we all have to run into a studio at the microphones and be ready for when they want to listen.

S3

[5:30] Just like the people who live in your TV, yeah.

[5:32] Exactly.

[5:33] And this is recorded, and so our Kickstarter is next week, and it's pretty fun.

[5:41] And I think it's makemoremst3k.com, and it's on Kickstarter, and we're making new shows.

[5:51] And the really cool thing is we're going to have our own online theater called the Gizmoplex,

[5:58] which is kind of going to be a gathering place to watch for premiere shows.

[6:04] It's a premiere theater, so we're going to fund new shows to make.

[6:08] We'll premiere them in the Gizmoplex, as well as you can host watch parties there and watch old episodes and stuff like that, too.

[6:18] So it's going to be kind of, I mean, a little bit like, because you guys are comedy nerds, I can say this and feel comfortable.

[6:25] It's going to have a little bit more of a CCTV vibe to it where the Mads are working to make new content that'll be in the Gizmoplex.

[6:33] So that's a little bit of an accent that's a little bit different, but that's a scuttlebutt.

[6:41] That's what we're going to be doing.

Elliott Kalan

[6:43] And so the Kickstarter campaign, so this is going to, this episode will be up on April 10th, I believe, right?

[6:50] That should be the day.

[6:51] So the Kickstarter will be going on, I think, or will it just be about to start?

[6:57] Yes.

[6:57] Okay, so go there right now.

Dan McCoy

[7:01] Maybe.

[7:01] Well, it's...

[7:02] This is the sort of definitive promotion.

[7:06] Yes.

S3

[7:07] Have I taken too long promoting my pitch?

[7:10] No.

[7:10] No, not at all.

[7:11] Not at all.

[7:12] No, this is great.

S5

[7:13] I'm just learning about it, so this is fantastic.

Elliott Kalan

[7:16] This is the first he's hearing about it.

S5

[7:18] I need to know what I'm going to be working on this year, so I thank you, Joel.

Elliott Kalan

[7:21] By the way, this is your job for the next couple years, so it's good that you're hearing about it now.

S5

[7:25] Okay.

[7:26] Thank you for inviting me.

[7:27] This was great.

[7:28] Bye.

Elliott Kalan

[7:30] Now, Matt, he's famous for his love of Disney and Disney properties, which will come in hugely helpful as we talk about the final program from 1974, or 1973, I guess.

[7:43] A British science fiction fantasy film based on a novel by Michael Moorcock that I only realized while starting to watch the movie, I tried to read at one point and could not make my way through.

[7:53] And so it was, in a way, this was a movie that Dan was – we were watching this movie, and Dan was texting me as he watched it talking about his – the difficulty he was having following the plot.

[8:02] And I want to say to him, dude, compared to the book, this is a connect-the-dots picture.

S3

[8:06] Like, I get it now.

[8:08] This was a movie that we were – was on a list to look at for MST, and Matt is the guy who does that.

[8:17] And so Matt kind of found this movie, and then he kind of said, well, you have to look at this movie.

[8:25] And then we started looking at it, and we were kind of amazed by it.

[8:29] There's things we saw that we couldn't kind of get over that were so kind of incredible and weird.

[8:37] And then we said, oh, this is the perfect thing for the Flophouse.

[8:40] Okay, great.

[8:41] And we didn't watch it until last night.

[8:44] Yeah.

S5

[8:45] So what we learned, though, is when we watched it all the way through, was that when we initially watched it for MST, we had only watched the good parts.

[8:56] So now we found out everything else.

S3

[8:59] Yeah, it was kind of like the ending, which kind of blew our minds.

[9:03] And then there were just these – and the other one was – well, I'll just wait on the other things that we got enthused about.

[9:09] But man, we're really sorry.

[9:11] This is a tough one.

Stuart Wellington

[9:12] But it was only 90 minutes, so –

Elliott Kalan

[9:14] That's the thing.

[9:14] We just finished watching Zack Snyder's Justice League, so I was like, this is trim.

[9:19] This is bright.

[9:20] This has a certain jauntiness to it.

Stuart Wellington

[9:22] Yeah.

[9:23] It's brisk.

Elliott Kalan

[9:24] Yeah, it's super brisk.

[9:25] I don't have to worry that Martian Manhunter is just going to show up, that any character might turn into Martian Manhunter at a given drop of a hat.

[9:31] Okay.

Dan McCoy

[9:32] We say it's brisk.

[9:32] It is short.

[9:33] It is short.

[9:34] It is short.

[9:35] And a lot of very unusual stuff happens in it that you will never see in another movie.

[9:42] And yet it still manages to have that sort of like 1970s British science fiction lag.

[9:51] Like it's got a nice vibe.

[9:53] It's done by the guy who did a lot of the Avengers TV show and did Abominable Dr. Fibes.

[9:59] It's got that like feeling to it.

[10:02] But also you're like, oh man, how can something with so much weird stuff happening be so slow?

Elliott Kalan

[10:08] It certainly doesn't have 90 minutes worth of story for a 90-minute movie.

[10:11] So it's like 90 minutes, but it's got – I mean, but this would be a great episode of Night Gallery.

[10:15] You got to admit.

S3

[10:16] The thing that tricked me into it was the art direction.

[10:21] It really evoked Zardoz to me.

[10:26] Yes.

[10:26] Yeah.

[10:27] Like I love Zardoz.

[10:28] And did you know about – I mean, what is it, Borman?

[10:31] Was he the director, the guy who did Deliverance?

Elliott Kalan

[10:33] Yeah.

[10:34] He finished with Deliverance and he said, I got to do a movie where Sean Connery wears a red diaper.

S3

[10:38] He had carte blanche.

[10:40] John Borman after Deliverance, it was the biggest movie in the world.

[10:43] He had carte blanche to make a movie and he made Zardoz because that was his pristine vision

[10:49] and that was the movie that he couldn't – he felt like he had to make.

[10:54] And it's kind of like people are really critical of Zardoz and make fun of it,

[10:59] but there are some really elegant – as a production design, there's some amazing things going on.

[11:05] And when we saw – when Matt and I saw the good parts of this movie,

[11:08] I was feeling the same way about this.

[11:11] Like, is this the same kind of thing?

[11:13] It's that kind of – it's the 70s.

[11:16] It's like the worst time in film history.

[11:18] And then they're trying to do fantasy science fiction and it's really hard.

Elliott Kalan

[11:23] Yeah.

[11:23] Well, there was this feeling at CLS like in 70s science fiction of like,

[11:26] well, no time is ever going to be as weird as right now.

[11:29] So if we're going to make a science fiction fantasy, let's just 70s it up as much as possible.

[11:34] The more 70s it gets – like the more accurate it is to this time,

[11:37] the more it's going to be timelessly strange.

[11:39] So guys, let's talk about what happens in this movie.

[11:41] Oh, wait, Dan.

[11:41] You say what you're going to say.

Dan McCoy

[11:42] Oh, no, I just had that feeling too while watching it.

[11:45] I'm like, okay, well, this is clearly satirizing something.

[11:49] But I don't know what.

Stuart Wellington

[11:51] Yeah, you're like, disco culture clearly is a metaphor for being inside a giant pinball machine.

[11:57] Yeah.

S3

[11:58] That's actually a very sound idea, I think.

[12:01] And there's that kind of despair.

[12:03] And he's this unfeasible smart, unfeasible rich guy.

[12:08] And there's more drug use than like the Umbrella Academy in this movie and alcohol.

[12:17] From wall to wall to wall drinking and taking pills, right?

Elliott Kalan

[12:20] Yeah.

[12:21] It's that time period in 70s science fiction when you can tell who the hero is by who ingests the most chemicals.

[12:27] Yeah.

[12:27] Like that's how you know that they're okay.

[12:30] So this is based on a Michael Moorcock novel.

[12:32] Now, here's another mystery science theater connection.

[12:34] He wrote the screenplay to, I think, Journey to the Center of the Earth.

[12:38] It was either That or the Land that Time Forgot.

[12:40] One of the two movies that we did.

[12:41] At the Earth's Core, you mean?

[12:41] At the Earth's Core.

[12:42] Maybe it was At the Earth's Core.

[12:43] And I remember very well riffing that.

[12:45] Thank you for correcting Elliot, by the way.

[12:47] Yeah, thank you.

[12:47] All the time.

[12:49] I remember riffing that movie and seeing his name come up and being like, do we not do a joke about his name because he is going to be well known to our fans?

[12:55] Or do we not do a joke about his name because it's hard for me to think of a joke that we can do on the show that's not about how his name is Moorcock?

S5

[13:02] I don't know.

[13:02] I can't.

[13:03] Let's just avoid it.

[13:04] Let's just avoid it altogether.

[13:05] What is yours?

[13:06] No, thanks.

[13:07] I'm full.

[13:09] Oh, that's good.

[13:10] That is good.

[13:11] There you go.

Elliott Kalan

[13:12] That's very good.

[13:13] Where were you when we were riffing that episode, Matt?

[13:15] You could do a bumper sticker, right?

S3

[13:17] Make mine Moorcock.

Elliott Kalan

[13:21] And so this is – Courtney McPete is the only one of his novels to have reached the screen.

[13:25] And once you've seen the movie, you're like, okay.

[13:28] Well, and it's part of – this is part of his Jerry Cornelius series.

[13:31] Jerry Cornelius is his version of like a mod, like super science fiction super spy who is a cynic and who's done with the world.

[13:39] And he dresses like a vampire.

[13:41] He dresses like – well, with dark painted nails because, again, it's the 70s and he's super cool.

Stuart Wellington

[13:46] Yeah, and he's like – there's a little bit of androgyny there, clearly an inspiration for like Noel Fielding and Jermaine Clement and like the Casanova comic book.

Elliott Kalan

[13:55] Yeah.

[13:56] So very much so.

S3

[13:57] He looks a little – he's got elements of Sigourney Weaver in his face too, the actor.

[14:02] Like Oliver –

Elliott Kalan

[14:03] So it's John Finch who was the star of Frenzy.

[14:05] He looks very Oliver Reedy.

[14:07] Oh, my God.

[14:08] He was the guy from Frenzy.

[14:09] Yeah, this is the guy who they think is the killer in Frenzy and has to prove his innocence.

[14:14] There's a bunch of actors in this.

[14:16] Watching this movie, it was like, I recognize that guy.

[14:18] I recognize that guy.

[14:19] There's a lot of British actors in this that we will – I will point out their other roles.

[14:23] And this is part of the – this character is part of Michael Morkhock's Eternal Champion series and we don't need to talk about that.

[14:30] So the movie begins – because I cannot spend another minute of my life talking about Elric of Melnibiné.

[14:36] I'm sorry.

[14:37] I can't.

[14:38] So we begin with a jaunty band music.

[14:40] What about Hawkmoon?

[14:41] Can you talk about Hawkmoon?

[14:43] Hawkmoon apparently was originally supposed to do the soundtrack for this movie because they're good friends with Michael –

[14:47] Hawkwind.

[14:47] Oh, Hawkwind.

[14:48] I'm sorry.

[14:48] Hawkwind.

[14:49] That's what I thought you meant.

[14:50] And the director said, I don't like them.

[14:52] And so they didn't do it.

[14:53] So Hawkmoon.

[14:55] Could have saved this movie.

[14:56] Could have saved this movie.

[14:57] So to jaunty band music, there's a lot of marching band music.

[15:00] There's some people building a funeral pyre in a rocky wasteland that we will learn is Lapland.

[15:05] And there's this mod cool dude, Jerry Cornelius, who again is kind of like if you crossed like Mick Jagger and Patrick McGowan in The Prisoner and then threw a little bit of Robert Smith in there too.

S3

[15:18] Oliver Reed.

[15:19] He's got an Oliver Reed vibe too.

[15:22] Yeah, he's very Oliver Reed.

[15:22] Young Oliver Reed.

[15:23] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[15:24] Yeah.

[15:24] As in the young Oliver Reed Chronicles, the TV show that used to be on.

Dan McCoy

[15:28] Well, that's where they practice all their CGI that they use later on.

[15:32] Yeah, they used in the prequels.

[15:33] Yeah.

[15:34] And you learn where all the elements of Oliver Reed's personality come.

[15:37] Yeah.

[15:38] Like the building blocks.

Elliott Kalan

[15:40] So – and he's wearing this ruffled shirt and this big fur coat.

[15:42] Anyway, while he's watching this funeral pyre in Lapland, we have flashbacks to him talking to his old professor, Professor Hira, who is played by – who is an Indian character but is played by Hugh Griffith, Academy Award winner for Ben Hur for Best Supporting Actor.

[15:56] He's one of these British actors who did a lot of brownface roles.

[15:59] And they're talking about the Kali Yuga, the worst of the eras in human development.

[16:05] It's a dark age of humanity that they're living in right now, which is coming to an end soon.

[16:08] Which means the end of the world is coming.

[16:10] And this is the kind of thing where, as in many 50s through 70s science fiction, people just know it's happening through logical deduction.

[16:16] It's not like they point to, like, experiments or evidence that the end of the world is coming.

[16:20] They're just like, we know it.

[16:21] Like, we can feel it.

[16:22] We figured it out.

S5

[16:23] Well, I have to say, before we continue, I'm really happy that you're doing such a detailed synopsis because, like, I was not paying that close attention.

[16:31] So I didn't really follow.

S3

[16:34] A good way through this, we kept going, I can't remember why we are supposed to care about this.

Elliott Kalan

[16:41] Well, that's a good question.

[16:42] Even I had it many times during the movie, even while paying attention.

[16:45] Anyway, so we find that this funeral is for Jerry Cornelius' father.

[16:49] He was a famous scientist.

[16:51] Jerry Cornelius, it's just tossed off on the radio.

[16:53] It's mentioned as a Nobel Prize winning scientist, which is insane since he's not only just a young man, but a young man who lives entirely on alcohol and chocolate biscuits.

[17:02] Yeah.

[17:03] He loves Girl Scout cookies.

Dan McCoy

[17:05] Yeah.

[17:05] My window into this movie eventually was like, oh, okay, this is like British 70s Buckaroo Banzai.

[17:12] Yes, yeah.

S3

[17:13] This is like the idea.

[17:14] Yeah.

[17:15] That's a great analogy.

Elliott Kalan

[17:16] Yeah, it's barrister bonsai is what you would call him.

S5

[17:20] He's kind of like Bruce Wayne, but without any of the creativity or morose.

[17:25] Well, let's, hold on.

Elliott Kalan

[17:26] Let's, again, having just watched Zack Snyder's Justice League, let's talk about the creativity of Bruce Wayne, which is he had one idea.

[17:32] I'm a bat.

[17:32] And everything just kind of flows from that.

S5

[17:34] Yeah, but this guy didn't have that idea.

[17:37] Yeah, he didn't even have the idea of being a bat.

[17:39] That's true.

[17:39] Plus his name is Jerry Cornelius, which is a shame.

S3

[17:42] Yeah.

[17:42] Do you guys remember when he had to train, when Batman had to train to fight Superman?

[17:48] That was pretty wild.

[17:50] It is.

[17:51] Yeah.

[17:52] This isn't going to be easy, but I'm going to start pushing tires over.

Stuart Wellington

[17:57] It's like, I'm going to start following a lot of weightlifting accounts on Insta.

Elliott Kalan

[18:04] It's so funny if it's like he's got to start, he knows he's going to fight Superman, so Alfred just becomes Burgess Meredith from Rocky, and Bruce Wayne's chasing chickens and running after a bicycle.

[18:14] And then Superman just hits him in the head once and kills him.

[18:18] It's like, oh, we went about this the wrong way.

[18:22] Okay, so Jerry Cornelius.

[18:25] Also, I remember reading a Jerry Cornelius book, and it took me a long time to get over that his name is Jerry Cornelius, which I assumed was like a podiatrist somewhere, like in Great Neck.

[18:33] It doesn't sound like a super spy to me.

[18:35] But anyway, a colleague of his father's, Dr. Smiles, is there.

[18:39] This is played by Graham Crowden, who almost was Dr. Who, but he turned the role down, and instead it went to Tom Baker.

[18:45] So imagine this guy with a really long scarf.

[18:48] That could have been him.

[18:49] Oh, wow.

Stuart Wellington

[18:50] And he's tall, so it would have been a super long scarf, right?

[18:53] It would have been incredibly long.

Dan McCoy

[18:56] By the way, when we were watching this, Audrey, who has never seen any Dr. Who, just said, oh, I see why people like Dr. Who now.

[19:04] I'm like, because this was their only other option?

[19:08] I don't understand.

[19:09] And she's like, no, no, no.

[19:11] She just assumed that this was like the kind of vibe.

[19:13] And I'm like, you know what?

[19:14] You're not wrong.

[19:15] You know?

[19:15] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[19:16] Anyway, he was also in, like, in Oh, Lucky Man.

[19:18] He's in a lot.

[19:19] This guy, you'll recognize his face if you've seen other British movies from this time.

[19:22] Anyway, he's like, he's Dr. Smiles.

[19:24] He's like, your father had some valuable microfilm.

[19:26] I need you to find it.

[19:28] It's in your house.

[19:28] And he goes, well, I'm blowing up my house.

[19:30] And then gets into a helicopter and flies away.

[19:35] Jerry, we catch up to him drinking and driving on his way home.

[19:39] And the radio says his dad was a biophysicist and he's a Nobel Prize winner.

[19:42] He sets off a flare in the woods, which is the signal for his butler to come get him in a boat and just meet with him.

[19:48] And the butler says Jerry's sister, Christina, has fallen under the sway of their evil brother, Frank, who's keeping Christina drugged.

[19:54] And she's been sleeping for seven weeks.

[19:55] And Jerry says to him, you've got to get Christina out of the house.

[19:58] I'm going to blow up the house with Frank in it because nobody likes Frank.

[20:02] Frank is a real ne'er-do-well.

[20:03] This is a family with a lot of issues.

Stuart Wellington

[20:06] Is everybody following this so far?

Elliott Kalan

[20:07] So this is when the movie takes its first – this is when I think it takes its real first inexplicable turn, which is when he goes to visit General Wrongway Lindbergh, played by Sterling Hayden, who's a kind of like hippie general.

[20:18] And he wants to buy massive amounts of napalm from him.

[20:22] And we kind of are revealed to us through dialogue that some horrifying third world war is going on just off camera.

[20:29] And the Vatican has been destroyed and all these parts of the world no longer exist.

S3

[20:33] Amsterdam is 23 miles of white ash.

[20:36] Yes.

[20:36] That is part of the dialogue there.

[20:38] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[20:38] And Lindbergh seems to – I mean he's – it's Sterling Hayden smoking a cigar and you've got to know that it was one day and he probably ad-libbed most of his lines.

[20:46] That's what I'm guessing.

Dan McCoy

[20:47] Well, and this is where in the movie I'm like, oh, OK.

[20:49] We've got like – we've got ourselves a Southland Tales situation.

[20:52] Like this guy has no interest in like telling us what's going on.

[20:56] He just thinks it's really deep if we throw a lot of stuff at the wall.

[20:59] Yeah.

[20:59] And –

S3

[21:00] But is this after – do you feel this could have been after Strangelove?

[21:05] This must have happened after Strangelove.

[21:06] Oh, very much.

[21:07] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[21:07] This is about – so this movie comes out about nine years after Strangelove.

[21:10] This is during the time – I wonder if this was during the time when Sterling Hayden – no, it was earlier I think,

[21:14] when he was in Europe on his like self-imposed exile when he felt guilty about what he had done during the blacklisting.

[21:20] I think that was earlier.

[21:21] But yeah, this is – it's very much – I think they were feeling like, well, this could feel like Strangelove if we bring Sterling Hayden into it.

[21:27] And we're going to have him play a general.

[21:28] But instead of playing a general who is crazy in an uptight way, we're having a general who is a little wacko in a groovy way.

[21:35] Like he's got like a long goatee, right?

[21:38] Like I'm trying to remember what he looks like.

S3

[21:39] Yeah, really long hair, like a huge long hair wig on.

[21:43] Yeah.

[21:43] And he's –

[21:44] I think he's in a ponytail.

[21:46] It's almost like they also borrowed elements from 2001 occasionally throughout this too.

[21:51] Oh, very much so.

[21:52] There's a couple of pulls off that, you know.

Elliott Kalan

[21:56] And it wants to be – yeah, it wants to be very Kubrick-y.

Stuart Wellington

[21:59] Yeah, you were watching and you're like, oh man, this makes me think that maybe war is crazy.

[22:05] Is this wacky general's in charge?

Elliott Kalan

[22:07] Maybe war's not so sane.

[22:09] Hey, you know what?

[22:09] What's so civil about war anyway?

[22:11] Yeah, it's a real catch-22.

[22:13] I'd like to see our schools get all the money and an Air Force hold a bake sale to buy a fighter jet.

[22:18] And Sterling Hayden's character is like he should be in Skadoo.

[22:20] But somehow he escapes Skadoo and he ended up in this movie.

S3

[22:24] So –

[22:25] And you can do everything with a phone back then.

[22:27] You don't have to show anything.

[22:29] Yeah, that's true.

[22:30] It's a guy with a phone barking orders and like telling you everything, right?

[22:35] So there's war.

[22:36] We're not going to show you a monitor with anything on it.

Elliott Kalan

[22:39] And Jerry Penelis has gone to him to buy napalm and a computer-controlled car.

[22:43] None of this ever appears in the movie.

[22:45] So this scene is totally superfluous.

[22:47] There's no reason for it.

[22:49] Because next stop, he's got to go to a pinball bar where there's like the bikini girls rolling around in giant hamster balls.

[22:55] And Jerry goes –

[22:57] Everybody's serving Molaco Plus.

S3

[22:59] Yeah.

[22:59] This is the scene we saw – this is the first thing we saw and we go, this is genius.

[23:05] So we love this.

[23:07] This movie is too much for us.

[23:09] Let's bring it to the flop house.

[23:11] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[23:11] Well, this is definitely also the scene that is the most like – oh, you can see that this guy worked on the Avengers TV show.

[23:17] Yes.

[23:18] Like with the pinball filled with human beings.

S5

[23:21] This is a brief glimpse at the charm in Dr. Fibes.

[23:24] But nothing else really touches that.

Elliott Kalan

[23:26] I don't know about that.

[23:27] I don't know about that.

[23:28] Well, there's some other Fibes-y moments that I like.

[23:30] So it's a super mod place.

[23:33] He goes to meet up with an assassin played by Ronald Lacey.

[23:36] You may know him best as Tote from Raiders of the Lost Ark.

[23:38] And he's like this super uptight assassin who, again, does not appear in the movie after this scene.

[23:44] So the scene is totally irrelevant.

[23:46] And he's very stressed about pinball.

[23:48] And Jerry wants to buy napalm from him.

[23:50] And he says, give me a couple days.

[23:52] Jerry is picked up by a busty lady and then turns down an offer from an elderly fortune teller to have his fortune told.

[23:57] And a bunch of nuns are playing slot machines.

[23:59] That's the scene.

[24:00] Again, doesn't have anything to do with the rest of the movie.

[24:02] It's a – at this point, the movie is daring you to discover a plot.

Dan McCoy

[24:07] Have you ever picked up a Thomas Pynchon novel and just started reading?

S5

[24:13] Doesn't the scientist come up in the pinball bar?

[24:17] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[24:18] Dr. Smiles shows up again.

Elliott Kalan

[24:19] But then they show up again.

[24:20] I mean he keeps coming up.

[24:21] There's no – but he keeps asking for this microfilm.

[24:23] Well, you think there's going to be the plot.

[24:25] But it doesn't really show up yet.

[24:26] The plot doesn't show up until the next scene.

[24:28] There's three men in dark suits.

[24:29] These three doctors.

[24:30] One of them, Dr. Powis, is played by George Kaloris from Citizen Kane.

[24:34] So there's a little bit of movie history here as well.

[24:36] And they're meeting with Miss Bruner, a sort of super tough, super genius femme fatale lady.

[24:45] And she does not want Jerry involved in whatever they're doing, this final program they're talking about.

[24:50] Oh, no, they don't.

[24:50] No, she wants him involved.

[24:51] They don't want him involved.

[24:52] And she's got this guy with her name, Dimitri, who we don't know why he's there.

[24:55] But he's like a – we think he's like a bodyguard or a chauffeur or something.

[24:58] But she has other plans.

S3

[24:59] He looks a lot like Matthew McConaughey.

[25:01] He's a dead ringer for McConaughey.

Elliott Kalan

[25:02] He's like a Greek McConaughey.

[25:04] He's like McConaughey.

[25:05] Yeah.

S3

[25:07] Yeah, I was going to say one thing, Elliot.

[25:09] Is this okay to interject while you're telling it or is that – do we save these comments for later?

[25:14] Oh, no.

Elliott Kalan

[25:14] Keep interjecting because the way I do it, the only way you're going to get a word in is if you interject.

[25:18] So this is the time.

S3

[25:19] I was thinking about the pinball scene and how inspired that was.

[25:23] And it evokes this kind of use – the funny thing is is the director also claims to be the set designer, right?

[25:33] Like didn't he design it?

[25:35] Yeah.

[25:35] Yeah, I think so.

[25:36] In the credits it says written, directed, designed by –

[25:38] It was designed, written, and directed, yeah, by Robert Fust or whatever.

[25:40] They use a lot of inflatables in the movie.

[25:44] And so this is the first time you're kind of seeing that thinking.

[25:48] And, you know, it's kind of like – it feels like that is a theme that goes throughout the movie is inflatable.

[26:00] So this is the first time we're seeing that.

[26:01] I just want to mention it.

[26:02] But also the nuns at the pinball machine is that kind of thing like it's depraved as you can imagine.

[26:10] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[26:11] It's the end of the world.

[26:13] This is where the world is, is that nuns are playing slots and pinball.

[26:17] This is dogs and cats living together.

[26:19] Doesn't this disgust you?

S3

[26:21] It's like in Things to Come when the little boy is playing the drum and the world is going to war.

[26:27] It's just this is how bad – this is how thick it's going to get for you.

Elliott Kalan

[26:31] You're saying that the social satire and commentary on this is pretty subtle and also measured.

Stuart Wellington

[26:36] Yeah.

[26:37] It's like when the Ewoks are playing drums on the Stormtrooper helmets and you're like, there's a person's head inside that, man.

[26:44] I mean there can't be a person.

Elliott Kalan

[26:45] I mean they probably took the head out first or else it wouldn't make as good a sound, right?

[26:50] Maybe.

[26:51] You never know.

[26:51] Which means you have to imagine an Ewok sticking his hand in there and pulling out a Stormtrooper head and then probably making a puppet out of it or eating it.

Stuart Wellington

[26:58] I mean he doesn't have to cut his head.

[27:01] He doesn't have to decapitate him.

[27:03] You can probably remove the helmet without decapitating a person, right?

[27:06] These are Ewoks.

[27:07] They like to do it.

S5

[27:08] They could have just found the helmet with the head in it.

[27:11] Does anyone know if Ewoks eat meat or are they fruit eaters?

Elliott Kalan

[27:14] I mean they were literally roasting Han on a spit, right, when they first got him.

[27:20] But they might have thought that he was like a mangaboo, like a vegetable person, like in the Oz novels.

[27:25] So who knows?

[27:26] I mean the Ewoks are big L. Frank Baum fans.

[27:30] Yeah, let's get wicked on the phone.

[27:32] Which is – it's like Zardoz.

[27:33] It's like Zardoz.

[27:35] All the Ewoks know about humanity is from The Wizard of Oz.

[27:37] That's it.

[27:38] OK.

[27:38] So guys, these scientists, they're not happy about it.

[27:41] OK.

Elliott Kalan

[27:41] And the – but they need Jerry to get into his house to get that microfilm.

[27:47] Now we know Jerry is planning to blow up his house.

[27:50] So this could be trouble.

[27:51] But that night, Jerry Cornelius, first he tests out this weird little needle gun that he has that his brother Frank also ends up having one.

[28:00] So I don't know if this is a family weapon where in the future people just shoot little needles at each other.

[28:03] But it's like a see-through plastic gun.

[28:06] That looks pretty neat, right?

S5

[28:07] It's like those telephones from the 90s where you could see all the machinery inside.

Elliott Kalan

[28:12] Oh, those were so cool.

S3

[28:13] It had a CO2 cartridge in it too, which was kind of a nice touch to suggest that it's CO2 powered, you know?

[28:21] So that was a cool –

Stuart Wellington

[28:22] It's like the plastic gun that John Malkovich uses in In the Line of Fire, right?

[28:28] Yeah, I guess so.

Elliott Kalan

[28:29] That one shot little needles too, right?

Stuart Wellington

[28:32] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[28:32] That's Jerry Cornelius.

[28:33] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[28:35] Now, okay, how different would In the Line of Fire be if instead of Clint Eastwood it was this guy playing Jerry Cornelius?

[28:41] It would be very different, right?

[28:42] If instead of Clint Eastwood it was Jerry Cornelius?

[28:44] It would.

Stuart Wellington

[28:44] I mean, I feel like Eastwood would have no time for the shenanigans of this movie.

[28:51] No.

Elliott Kalan

[28:53] Because how different would the final program be if it was Clint Eastwood playing the part instead of John Finch?

[28:57] Again, very different.

S5

[28:59] I don't think it would have been that different.

[29:00] It still would have been pretty boring.

Elliott Kalan

[29:02] I think Clint Eastwood would still be wearing the ruffled shirt, dark fingernails.

S5

[29:05] I mean, it'd be fun to look at like a lot of the final program is.

[29:11] Yeah, that's true.

[29:11] But I mean, how much do you think Clint Eastwood could ad-lib a better plot into the script?

[29:16] True.

Elliott Kalan

[29:17] Vera, yeah.

[29:18] So speaking of how kind of boring the script is, we get a discussion, again, a flashback discussion between Jerry and his professor about how there needs to be a merging of science and spirituality or chaos will erupt.

[29:30] It's unclear, again, what this means and continues to be.

[29:34] Ms. Brunner shows up.

[29:35] She's read Jerry's books, and that's from before Jerry lost faith in all knowledge.

[29:39] And she says she's a computer programmer who's trying to find the program for immortality.

[29:44] And to finish her work, apparently she needs his dad's microfilm.

[29:47] They all go on foot to the house, leaving behind Dimitri, Ms. Brunner's devoted assistant, so we think.

[29:52] Suddenly, uh-oh, red photo negative, red photo negative, bill, bill, visual effects, video effects.

[29:57] The house is blasting them with light.

[29:58] That is supposed to cause pseudo-epilepsy.

[30:00] And Jerry somehow leads them through it by going up ahead, pressing a button on his watch, coming back and getting them, and the lights never stop.

[30:07] So I don't know what pressing the button on his watch did.

[30:09] Do you guys have any explanation of what he's doing in this scene?

Dan McCoy

[30:13] Filling time.

[30:14] It seems like they are filling time quite a bit.

Elliott Kalan

[30:16] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[30:17] I'm pretty sure that I was reading the Wikipedia summary for this movie while this scene was going on to try and figure out what was—

S3

[30:24] That scene really does give you pause because it's very noisy.

[30:29] And in some ways, it's kind of inspired in kind of a weird Alphaville kind of way.

[30:35] Like, this is—there's these blasts of lights that is a deterrent to keep you from getting—you know, to keep people away, right?

[30:44] Like a moat.

[30:45] And so it's shooting these balls of light, and if you watch it, it will give you epilepsy, or will it kill you or just, like, just really, like, screw you up?

Elliott Kalan

[30:56] Only one way to find out.

[30:57] Let's get to that house.

S3

[30:58] Very good.

[30:59] So anyway, but I thought that was kind of a—I thought that was one of the things that was actually fulfilled in kind of a good way.

[31:07] Like, I felt like it was pretty seamless, and it was a simple idea.

[31:10] It's just light and sound.

[31:12] Mm-hmm.

[31:12] Yeah.

[31:12] So it wasn't a big dip in quality to realize an idea like this.

[31:18] So go ahead.

Elliott Kalan

[31:19] Yeah.

[31:20] See, it's—so this—but this is just one of many traps that they're going to have to go through.

[31:24] They get into the house, which is Super Deco and Super Mario.

[31:27] And are these traps designed by his father, or are they designed by Frank?

[31:29] This is a question that's not answered.

[31:32] Jerry seems to know his way around, so I'm guessing they were designed by his father.

[31:35] The Cornelius family seems like an interesting family.

[31:39] There's—

Stuart Wellington

[31:40] Yeah, I'd rather watch a movie about just them.

Elliott Kalan

[31:43] It feels like it's very, like, mod gothic, you know?

[31:47] Mm-hmm.

[31:47] There's some hint that Jerry is in love with his sister.

[31:49] Dark shadows.

[31:50] Yeah, it's very dark shadows-y.

[31:52] Yeah, mothic.

[31:52] Frank seems to be possibly also the same.

[31:55] There's very—it's very, like, if Edgar Allan Poe was, like, groovy.

[32:00] Like, hey, guys, like, what if the raven, like—

[32:03] What if the raven—

[32:04] What if Edgar Allan Poe was groovy?

[32:05] Yeah, like, what if the raven turned on?

[32:07] Yeah.

[32:08] Like, wouldn't that be cool?

[32:09] Never more, baby.

[32:10] Join me.

[32:12] I feel like it diminishes the menace quite a bit if he says,

[32:15] Never more, baby.

[32:18] And then slips on some shades, and you hear, like, a guitar lick.

[32:22] So Jerry and Miss Brunner, for some reason, leave the three doctors behind.

[32:25] The three doctors immediately screw something up and have to escape from some poison gas.

[32:30] They escape to a chess puzzle room.

S5

[32:31] Now, this—that was 5G with the gas and everything.

[32:35] Yeah.

S3

[32:35] That was a great-looking scene, too, and that ballroom really felt like 2001.

[32:41] Yes.

[32:41] It was really evoking that vibe of—

S5

[32:43] It did bother me, though, that in the sort of shot where, like, they're getting off the elevator and going into that room,

[32:51] that behind them you can clearly see there is no ceiling, and when they cut back, there is a ceiling.

[32:56] And I know that's not valid information or useful in any way, but it bothered me.

[33:01] So I wanted to bring that up.

Elliott Kalan

[33:02] I'd like to make that canon.

[33:04] I'd like to read that in an aspect of the house that's meant to throw off intruders, is that pieces of it will swivel around or change shape while you're in there.

[33:12] You can't put anything past House Cornelius.

[33:15] They do all sorts of crazy things in there.

[33:16] They have a Starbucks in their house, and it's like, where are the customers coming from for this Starbucks?

[33:21] It's in a private home.

[33:22] This doesn't make any sense.

[33:23] They're just wacky.

[33:24] They're just wacky that way.

[33:26] Yeah, like, one of the bedrooms, the whole floor is a ball pit.

[33:29] Can you believe that?

[33:29] Like, this is goofy.

[33:30] Come on.

[33:31] What are they thinking?

[33:33] And you know what kind of chairs they have?

[33:35] Let me give you a hint.

[33:36] It's a bag, and it's filled with beans.

[33:40] It's a bean bag chair.

[33:41] Oh, no kidding.

[33:42] Wow.

[33:43] Anyway.

[33:44] That's disgusting.

[33:45] Yeah.

[33:45] Well, that's the thing.

[33:46] It's a bag of—

[33:47] Like cooked beans?

[33:48] Cooked beans.

[33:48] Refried beans?

[33:49] Yeah.

[33:49] It's baked beans and refried beans in a bag.

[33:52] Of the Bush's baked variety?

[33:53] Yeah, and the bag is a trash bag.

[33:54] It's just a trash bag full of baked beans that they put on the floor.

Dan McCoy

[33:57] Now, here's a question.

[33:59] Disgustingness aside, do you think it would be more comfortable to sit in a bean bag chair

[34:03] full of refried beans than, like, just a regular bean bag chair?

Elliott Kalan

[34:06] I mean, you'd need a lot of refried beans to fill that space, because it's essentially

[34:09] a liquid Bush at that point.

Dan McCoy

[34:10] Yeah, well, I mean, let's blue sky this.

[34:11] Yeah, exactly.

[34:12] All right.

Elliott Kalan

[34:13] Let's say we've got infinite refried beans.

[34:15] It would be like a water chair.

S5

[34:16] Well, you throw in a little bit of rice, and I'm sure you've got a little bit of a stronger

[34:18] foundation.

S3

[34:19] I know that if you just had beans that weren't refried, because let's face it, they put a

[34:24] lot of stuff in refried beans right now.

[34:27] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[34:29] Another rant of Joel's against modern refried beans.

[34:32] I've heard it before.

S3

[34:33] If you've got regular beans, I think they're going to function way better.

[34:38] If you want that bean bag chair kind of feel, I think so.

[34:42] You don't want, um, the refried beans are going to make your bean bag chair behave like

[34:46] Stretch Armstrong, ultimately.

S5

[34:48] Well, that's exactly what I want.

Stuart Wellington

[34:50] Yeah, that, yeah, it feels like a feature, not a bug.

S5

[34:52] I want to be able to do a snow angel in my bean bag chair.

Elliott Kalan

[34:56] Yeah, I finally feel what it feels like to be wrapped in the warm embrace of Stretch Armstrong

[34:59] after all these years of yearning for it.

Dan McCoy

[35:02] Yeah.

[35:03] We call it memory beans.

[35:04] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[35:05] It's just like, no matter, no matter how far his arm stretches, they just can't seem

[35:08] to get all the way around me.

S3

[35:11] Oh, man.

[35:11] Finally.

[35:12] You could find on Alibaba, though, there's a Stretch Armstrong bean bag chair that's just

[35:17] like really upsetting looking and too big.

S5

[35:21] And it's kind of in the-

[35:23] It's the size of like a barber chair.

S3

[35:25] Yeah, where you could go, it's $2,500.

[35:28] Like, I could maybe get that.

[35:30] It's like, it wouldn't break me.

Elliott Kalan

[35:32] It's a lot of money to spend on a chair.

S3

[35:33] But man, people would talk.

Elliott Kalan

[35:35] Yeah.

[35:36] Yeah.

[35:37] Yeah.

[35:37] I think I will get this Stretch Aim string that they have on here.

Stuart Wellington

[35:41] Now I want to hear Elliot compose a torch song for Stretch Armstrong and the time he doesn't

[35:46] get to spend with him.

Elliott Kalan

[35:49] I'll think about it.

[35:50] I'll think about it.

[35:50] I'm distracted by the fact that I just said Stretch Armstrong, which makes me think of

[35:53] like an Elaine Stritch version of Stretch Armstrong, where it's just her legs kick up

[35:57] really high, I guess, while she's singing torch songs.

[36:00] Okay.

[36:00] Stretch heartthrob.

[36:02] That's the, so if anyone wants to mock up, I guess, Elaine Stritch singing a torch strong

[36:06] to Stretch Armstrong, let's do this.

[36:08] Okay.

[36:09] It all rhymes.

[36:09] That's the Kickstarter.

[36:10] Wasting your time.

[36:10] Yeah.

[36:11] That's the Kickstarter.

[36:12] Forget Mystery Science Theater.

[36:13] This is what we're kickstarting right now.

[36:14] Okay.

[36:15] They go through a bunch of traps.

[36:16] They got to solve a chess puzzle on a wall and a blade comes out, but they get through.

[36:20] It leads them to an inflatable maze.

[36:22] They're like children just running, just lost in this place.

[36:26] This was my favorite part.

[36:28] It's super vaginal.

[36:30] Oh, yeah.

[36:30] It looks great.

[36:31] And all the different colors and stuff.

[36:33] Can I stop you, Elliot?

S3

[36:34] To me, this feels like that moment where, again, it's 2001 inspired.

[36:44] That changed the movies because I think it was kind of like, we collaborate with the youth

[36:48] who are taking drugs and drinking while they watch these films.

[36:52] So this is part of their experience.

[36:55] We owe this to them that it doesn't really have to hold up as a real movie.

[37:01] It's an environment.

[37:02] They'll go in this black room, a theater, take their drugs and marijuana and watch these

[37:08] and it'll work.

[37:09] Don't you think that was that?

[37:11] It seemed like that was kind of part of this.

Elliott Kalan

[37:13] I think very much so.

[37:14] Around this time, there were a lot of experience movies where it's more ignorant to experience

[37:19] it more than to draw a plot narrative from it.

[37:22] I have to imagine the big – this is – I'd like to bring us all back to the year 1968.

[37:27] It's the opening weekend of 2001 A Space Odyssey.

[37:30] And Stanley Kubrick, of course, master perfectionist as he is, is inspecting all the theaters to

[37:34] make sure that the audience are up to his standards.

[37:36] And three young people come in, blasted out of their minds off of acid.

[37:40] And he says, no, no, no, no.

[37:43] I don't think so.

[37:44] And then Arthur C. Clarke is there and he goes, wait, let them in.

[37:48] Let them watch the movie.

[37:50] And Stanley was like, I put a lot of work into this movie.

[37:52] I don't want people just using it as a color and light show.

[37:55] And Arthur C. Clarke goes, no, no, no.

[37:57] I've got a feeling about this, Stanley.

[37:58] And then they go in and they're like, whoa, this is amazing.

[38:06] And Stanley Kubrick is like, this is amazing.

[38:11] This is visionary.

[38:12] Yeah, you're right.

[38:12] And now I'll take credit for this forever.

[38:15] And that's the way it happened, guys.

[38:16] That's the story.

[38:17] Yeah.

[38:18] I could see that.

Stuart Wellington

[38:19] History is fascinating.

[38:21] All the way up to Cheech and Chong movies, right?

Elliott Kalan

[38:24] Well, when Stanley Kubrick's Up in Smoke came out, that was a big thing.

Dan McCoy

[38:29] I mean, the idea that, oh, we don't have to make a real movie.

[38:32] They certainly did use that for Cheech and Chong movies.

[38:35] That's really cool.

Elliott Kalan

[38:36] Yeah.

[38:37] I mean, and Arthur C. Clarke's The Corsican Brothers.

[38:40] Okay.

[38:40] No, this is why we do this, Joel.

[38:41] Well, this is not really, I hate to pull back the curtain too much.

[38:44] This is not really for people who want to know what happens in the final program.

[38:48] But speaking of what happens in the final program, Jerry finds the butler.

[38:51] What happens in the final program?

Stuart Wellington

[38:53] I'm just about to tell you.

Elliott Kalan

[38:54] Jerry finds the butler who is dying.

[38:56] The butler has failed to get Catherine out.

[38:58] Frank found out about it, poisoned the butler.

[39:00] Jerry finds Catherine asleep.

[39:01] There's slash marks on her arms.

[39:03] There's drugs all over the room.

[39:04] It's a bad scene, as Jerry Cornelius might say.

[39:07] Frank bangs on the door.

[39:09] And Jerry has, there are a couple lines Jerry Cornelius has in this movie where he swears really casually in a way I didn't expect.

[39:15] And he goes, Frank goes, who's in there?

[39:17] I'll kill you.

[39:18] And Jerry goes, you know it's me, Frank, and you're shitting yourself.

[39:20] And it's such a, like a toast of London type line.

[39:24] Like, and Jerry and Frank have a needle gun fight as Frank talks about how great drugs are basically.

[39:31] Frank shoots Jerry.

[39:32] And Jerry thinks he's shooting at Frank.

[39:35] But he shoots Christina.

[39:37] Oh, no.

[39:37] Her fate, I'm not sure whether she dies or not.

[39:40] The whole Christina plot kind of disappears from this point.

[39:43] It's just a motivation for Jerry to go after Frank.

[39:46] But Bruner catches up to Frank, beats him up.

[39:49] And she says, we'll give you drugs if you get us the microfilm.

[39:51] She forces him to open up their dad's safe.

[39:53] But Frank traps them behind some glass because there's so many traps in this house.

[39:57] It's a regular Franco trap house.

[39:59] And they just, and Frank escapes with the microfilm.

[40:04] And that's when, now it's the hunt for, it's the Star Trek III, the search for Frank.

[40:12] Jerry wakes up in a sort of minimalist nursing home where there's only one bed in the middle of a huge empty room.

[40:17] This is some kind of very 2001 stuff.

Stuart Wellington

[40:19] You didn't mention who the actor who plays Frank is.

[40:22] And you've listed extensive credits for everyone else.

[40:24] I have no fucking idea.

[40:25] I just thought you would tell me because I was feeling lost.

Elliott Kalan

[40:27] Frank is played by Derek O'Connor, who I know him best as Bob Hoskins' partner in Brazil.

[40:33] But Stuart, you would know him best as Ralph in Hawk the Slayer.

[40:39] That's right.

[40:39] Oh, shit.

Dan McCoy

[40:40] Oh, he's also a deep rising, it says here.

[40:43] Oh, shit.

Elliott Kalan

[40:44] And he's in Time Bandits.

[40:45] Captain Atherton?

[40:46] Yeah.

[40:48] Wait, so he's in lots of stuff.

[40:50] He's another one of these actors where like, I saw his face and I was like, I know him from stuff.

[40:55] I was like that with almost everyone in this movie, yeah.

[40:58] Yeah.

[40:59] He's in, let's see, what other stuff is he in that you might know?

[41:02] Of course, yeah, he's in the movie, the first movie of Daredevil.

[41:05] First movie.

[41:06] There's only one.

[41:06] Why am I saying first?

[41:08] You probably know him.

[41:09] End of days.

[41:10] Dan, you know him best, of course, as Dean Reed from How to Make an American Quilt.

[41:13] And, you know, he's in lots of stuff.

[41:15] But this is his second appearance in a Flophouse film.

S3

[41:22] Anyway.

[41:22] It's a great quality and I did recognize him and they kind of cast him as this kind of character-y type character.

[41:29] Pretty gross.

Elliott Kalan

[41:30] He comes off as like kind of a pretty – he's like if Richard Keel was shorter, like I feel like.

[41:37] Sure.

[41:37] And he's got a real bad guy quality about him.

[41:40] He looks like a guy who's strung out on drugs in the future of the 1970s.

[41:43] So Jerry Cornelius wakes up in this nursing home.

[41:46] They tell him he had an accident at a carnival.

[41:48] And he has another flashback about his professor that doesn't really matter.

[41:54] Miss Brunner picks up Jerry Cornelius and takes him to eat at a restaurant that's ringside at a kind of milk slash mud wrestling pit.

[42:01] This is more kind of like wacky, the future is decadent type stuff.

[42:05] And there is a very long scene where Jerry is bantering with a waitress played by Sandra Dickinson who is Trillian in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy TV show.

[42:13] And she's got kind of like a Harley Quinn type voice.

Stuart Wellington

[42:17] And it's like a cigarette girl box of like water or wine or –

Dan McCoy

[42:22] Well, yeah.

[42:23] It's like she's presenting wine, like the equivalent of wine.

[42:27] But it's like here's some like toxic waste from the Champagne region of France or whatever.

[42:33] Like it's a joke.

[42:35] It's all jokes.

[42:36] It's one of these hilarious counterculture jokes.

[42:38] Yeah.

S3

[42:38] Also, the music that they used was what is that really tough oompa kind of music that's to evoke like this is funny, though.

[42:48] We're not really willing to put the time in to make this funny.

[42:52] Like the actors are going to make you believe what's going on is interesting.

[42:59] And when they look over their shoulders and they'll laugh at it, this was where I began to hate this movie.

[43:06] I began to go, why are you doing this?

[43:10] Because it's so lazy.

S5

[43:12] It's that, again –

[43:13] It's like putting the Wallace and Gromit theme over 1984.

[43:16] It's not doing it any favors.

[43:18] It doesn't work.

S3

[43:20] Yeah, and it's that thing, too, where you run into it.

[43:22] Like anytime they do a movie about stand-up, they always just – there's very few of them that actually use real stand-up that's funny.

[43:30] And they indicate it's funny because they have the audience laugh at it.

[43:35] So that was really discouraging.

[43:37] But that music plays throughout this scene.

[43:39] It's a really long scene.

[43:41] And it's supposed to be funny because they're ordering toxic waste to drink like wine.

Dan McCoy

[43:48] Yeah.

[43:48] And I also feel like I was watching it being like, okay, like this is like the most basic thought in the world.

[43:57] And I've said it many times in the Flophouse.

[43:59] But I'm like, oh, in a better movie, that might have worked.

[44:01] Like if you just sort of like tossed away that line, like if it was just like a moment in a comedy and didn't like – everything feels very leaden when they try and do comedy.

Stuart Wellington

[44:11] Yeah.

[44:12] If it was a villain in like RoboCop 5 ordering toxic waste to drink, I'd be like, oh, cool.

[44:16] That makes sense.

Elliott Kalan

[44:17] Sure, sure.

[44:18] Or it is a poor step-cousin to the restaurant scene in Brazil where the woman keeps offering him like – she goes, pepper, and then it explodes because there's been a terrorist attack.

Stuart Wellington

[44:31] Now, do you think they shot this scene in a – it's in like a club with a milk mud wrestling ring.

[44:38] Now, I know that Adam Sandler likes to shoot his movies wherever he wants to go on vacation.

[44:42] Do you think that they were just like, we're already going here.

[44:45] We might as well shoot a fucking scene here.

[44:47] Let's see if people will sign the release and then we'll just shoot it here.

Elliott Kalan

[44:50] It's possible.

[44:51] I mean we'll have to look into how many milk mud wrestling clubs there were in London at the time.

[44:56] You'd be surprised.

[44:57] Probably a lot.

[44:58] And you know that Chris Claremont was right there watching it the whole time.

[45:01] Uh-oh.

[45:02] That's for the people who know about Chris Claremont, X-Men writer, X-Men Legends, sexual peccadillos.

[45:07] True nasty boy.

[45:08] Anyway, so Miss Brunner's there.

[45:11] They both want to find Frank.

[45:12] Him for revenge, her for the microfilm.

[45:15] And they kind of come to an agreement that they're going to do this.

[45:17] They go to Jerry Cornelius' apartment.

[45:20] It is a mess.

[45:21] She calls a computer for information.

[45:23] Well, he goes and takes a ton of – his freezer is just overflowing with biscuits, what we would call cookies.

[45:29] And what in England they call biscuits.

[45:31] Nice.

[45:31] And he's – there's liquor bottles everywhere.

[45:34] He has a coffee vending machine in his apartment.

[45:36] Because again, these are the Cornelius'.

[45:37] They're just like the Starbucks in their house.

[45:39] They love to be able – they love to pay money for coffee.

S5

[45:42] Somehow this is the most average place in the whole movie.

[45:48] Like it's got its quirks, but like there's still something kind of real and boring about it.

Elliott Kalan

[45:53] Yeah.

[45:53] Well, he still has like a couch.

[45:54] You know, he has furniture.

S3

[45:56] It's filled with bottles too.

[45:57] Isn't the whole idea that every counter is lined with empty booze bottles in the scene?

Elliott Kalan

[46:02] Yeah, because he lives in a sort of a Dr. Gonzo, Raul Duke constant haze of chemicals, but mostly liquor.

[46:12] And he quotes the Spanish Inquisition sketch.

[46:15] So again, you know it's a comedy because they have a joke from a funny thing in it.

[46:19] And Jerry hits on Miss Brunner's assistant and is lightly rebuffed and as in Norwegian Wood crawls off to sleep in the bath.

[46:28] He's brushing his teeth very angrily.

[46:30] With his foot in the sink.

[46:32] Yeah, and he looks in a very uncomfortable posture.

[46:35] Yes.

[46:36] He sees in the mirror reflection that the assistant is now playing piano naked.

[46:40] And he watches this for a little bit and then again crawls off to sleep in the bath.

[46:43] And we see the assistant at first it seems like is about to have sex with Miss Brunner.

[46:50] But as it becomes clearer later on, she is going through some sort of process of consuming and absorbing the assistant into her own body,

[46:57] which is represented by her holding her fist in the air while choral music plays, kind of like divine choral music.

[47:03] This is one of those things where it was just an inkling I had that I had to look up the description later to find out if that was actually happening.

[47:08] Yes.

[47:09] Joel Hodgson, you had a question.

S3

[47:10] I mean, I'm just kind of trying to reiterate with my hand what happened in the movie because there is this kind of effect that happens where it's statter.

[47:23] Yeah, it shudders.

[47:25] And I didn't catch that in the least.

[47:28] Like, that's what's amazing.

[47:30] I didn't get that.

[47:30] But that actually makes sense somehow.

[47:34] So you're saying she somehow got a way to absorb people.

[47:39] And we know that that comes later.

[47:41] But so you're saying she's starting that process?

Stuart Wellington

[47:45] Yes.

[47:45] Yeah, I think so.

[47:46] I mean, I was a little confused because normally when I make love to somebody, my body shudders in that weird stop thing.

[47:52] And angelic music plays, right?

S5

[47:54] Yeah, I thought that was like just a stylistic showing of like the ecstasy of sex or sexstasy, if you will.

[48:03] But yeah, I did not get that at all.

Elliott Kalan

[48:06] That's what I thought was the joke at first was that it was a joke about how good this erotic moment is.

[48:12] And because they couldn't – Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, I assume, maybe hadn't been written yet, so they couldn't play that.

Stuart Wellington

[48:19] It was inspired by this scene.

Elliott Kalan

[48:21] That's what it was.

[48:23] Leonard Cohen saw this movie and he misunderstood what was going on in the scene.

[48:26] So he went and wrote that song and he said someday two superheroes are going to do it in a big metal owl to this song.

[48:33] So the next morning, the assistant is gone.

[48:37] We now know that she's been eaten, but it's unclear at the time.

[48:39] They go to a train station because Ms. Brunner's computer said that Frank would be there, and he is.

[48:45] It takes a long time for this to happen.

[48:47] He's picked up by Dr. Baxter, who is a former colleague but now enemy of Jerry Cornelius' late father.

[48:54] And Dr. Baxter is played by Patrick McGee, who is a big, big actor in a lot of stuff.

[48:58] But you might remember him best as the author in Clockwork Orange who gets beaten up by Alex and the Droogs.

[49:05] So here he's a bad guy though, and that one he was a victim.

[49:08] They drive off and they follow him.

[49:11] Frank talks to Baxter for a little bit.

[49:12] Frank wants to sell the microphone, but he doesn't know what's on it.

[49:17] And Frank thinks he killed Jerry Cornelius, but Baxter is like, oh, I just saw him.

[49:21] I think he's still alive.

[49:22] I think I just saw him the other day or earlier.

[49:24] Cue dart gunfight and foot chase while Jerry and Frank are running through a junkyard, which I guess represents modern society or something, to some jazz music.

[49:34] Ms. Brunner kind of seduces Dr. Baxter and then absorbs him in the exact same way, fist upraised choral music playing.

[49:43] There was jazz music?

[49:44] Jazz music during the chase, I believe, if I'm remembering it correctly.

S5

[49:48] I only remember the oompa music.

Elliott Kalan

[49:50] Maybe my mind had blocked out the marching band music at that point and was just playing other things I might enjoy more.

Dan McCoy

[49:56] You sounded so disturbed, too.

[49:58] Like, I missed jazz?

[50:00] I'm just shocked.

Elliott Kalan

[50:02] That's why Around the Mystery Center Theater said he was known as Jazz McGinnis, because he just always had to tell us about jazz.

[50:07] He'd be like, you know who also riffs?

[50:11] Coltrane.

[50:11] And we'd be like, yeah, we get it, Matt.

[50:13] We get it.

S3

[50:14] The other thing I was thinking about is this movie for a science fiction fantasy film doesn't have a single establishing shot showing you where you are or what, yeah, where in context you are.

[50:29] There's that one scene where he's walking in a city and there is kind of a process shot of a bunch of cars stacked up.

[50:41] And that's the only time they do any kind of special effects photography to indicate a sense of place.

[50:48] And I think if they would have used that more, this would have been a better movie.

Elliott Kalan

[50:53] I think that's a clearer movie.

[50:55] And that scene, that shot, it wasn't until I read the Wikipedia entry that I realized that was a shot of Trafalgar Square.

[51:00] And it was supposed to be showing that it's full of detritus.

[51:02] But it's, yeah, that's the only shot where I was like, it's like, oh, well, this is, yeah, this is an establishing shot and I still don't know where it is or what's going on.

S5

[51:09] I just thought it was like the first step into like the WALL-E universe where like we could just put trash everywhere.

Elliott Kalan

[51:14] Oh, yeah.

[51:15] Well, this is, WALL-E is the sequel to the final program.

[51:17] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[51:17] Okay.

[51:18] So, well, and there's the, when he's chasing, when Jerry's chasing Frank, he chases him into a large building and we get like a helicopter shot, right?

[51:25] Where the camera like, you see them run in and then you can see through the courtyard Frank like run from one door to another.

[51:33] That actually is a great shot.

[51:34] That's actually cool.

[51:35] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[51:37] So Jerry shoots Frank, killing him.

[51:40] The Frank plot line is now over.

[51:43] And we're off onto the microfilm plot line, the final program of the original plot of title.

[51:49] Bruner takes the microfilm and Jerry just starts drinking.

[51:52] His whole family is gone and so rightfully he's about to get drunk and then Miss Bruner is like – and he talks to Miss Bruner and he seems to know that she eats people.

[52:01] Like it just comes up casually in conversation.

[52:03] And I was like, oh, okay, so that's – you knew that was happening and you didn't try to stop it or anything like that?

[52:08] You just felt that was – all right, okay.

[52:10] And she says, come to Lapland.

[52:12] Come with me to see Duel, the most complex computer in the world.

[52:15] And he's like, I've seen it.

[52:16] Steven Spielberg, the truck's chasing a guy.

[52:18] Like I understand.

[52:19] I don't need to see it again.

[52:21] I saw it.

[52:22] But instead they're going to go to Lapland.

[52:24] Wherever Lapland is in relation to them, it is a mere hot air balloon ride away because they step into a waiting hot air balloon and just head over there.

Dan McCoy

[52:33] They toss the Muppets out.

Elliott Kalan

[52:36] But it's one of these – it's like they're trying to – there was something about – in the early scene when he gets into a helicopter and just flies off, there was something a little surprising of like, what?

[52:45] And it's like they're trying to pick up on the fumes of that and they're like, how do we heighten from helicopter?

[52:49] Hot air balloon.

[52:50] That'll seem whimsical.

[52:51] There's a lot of misplaced whimsy or mimsy in this and I wish it was the last mimsy to be honest.

[52:57] So anyway.

[52:58] Elliot.

[52:59] Yeah?

[53:02] Don't do that.

[53:03] Sorry.

[53:04] I was just – I wanted to be Gene Shalett for a moment.

[53:06] Oh, that works?

[53:07] You could just tell him not to do it?

[53:09] When Matt tells me.

[53:10] When Matt tells me it works for a couple minutes.

[53:12] Okay.

[53:13] They show up at a kind of pod in Lapland where the three scientists are and they're like, what is Jerry doing here?

[53:17] We don't want him here.

[53:18] Our experiment is at a crucial moment.

[53:20] And there's so much – this whole scene, this whole sequence is full of so much science fiction-y techno mumbo-jumbo gobbledygook that I love so much because it's like – there's just so much.

[53:32] It's a made-up science language.

[53:33] But Jerry goes off and finds – there's like a – it's a vintage submarine at an underground dock and talks about how he used to have a submarine too.

[53:41] And it turns out this is a secret Nazi lab that was left over after World War II.

[53:46] And they're continuing, I guess, the experiment that was started there.

[53:50] And Jerry is like, oh, the world is about to end soon.

[53:52] And they show him that Dimitri, the assistant that was left in the car earlier, is living in a kind of glass bedroom.

S5

[53:58] Well, remember too earlier he does say in the lemon grove or whatever it was, there's a – the only line I remember is when he says, the world is ending.

[54:08] I'm going to go watch it on television.

[54:10] Which also seemed like another one of those just like, oh, the future is so dismal because of television and stuff.

[54:17] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[54:18] And there's a line later where someone says something about like the Third World War or something like that.

[54:24] And he's like, it's already going on.

[54:26] Just people get distracted by the commercials.

[54:28] And it's like –

[54:28] Right.

[54:28] Almost a satirical idea, but it's not really.

[54:31] Like it's –

Stuart Wellington

[54:32] You're getting there.

[54:33] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[54:33] Yeah.

[54:33] They're getting – it's baby steps.

[54:34] Baby steps.

[54:35] Evolutionary steps, as we'll see later in the movie.

[54:38] Anyway, they showed Jerry Duel, which is a kind of hilariously small computer.

[54:42] It's like the size of a paper shredder, which would be accurate for now.

[54:45] Like you don't need – but back then it's a very unimpressive looking computer.

Stuart Wellington

[54:48] With a fucking title plate on it that says, most advanced computer in the world, do not touch.

Elliott Kalan

[54:56] The only thing I can compare that to is when I was recently an audience member on Jeopardy!

[55:00] And they had us wait in the Wheel of Fortune set for a while.

Stuart Wellington

[55:02] He brings this up every episode, guys.

Elliott Kalan

[55:04] And the Wheel of Fortune was under a thick layer of plastic sheeting.

[55:08] And there was a sign that said, do not touch wheel under any circumstances.

S5

[55:17] That's happened so many times.

[55:19] That's so great.

Elliott Kalan

[55:20] And I just wondered what people's excuses were for why they had to touch the wheel at that moment.

S3

[55:26] I think, too, that in this – in the laboratory, they really step up their game as far as art direction goes.

[55:34] And this is when – this is again where Matt and I was watching.

[55:38] This is when we happened to watch it the first time and said, wow, I'm really enthused about this movie.

[55:43] And I think it's a good idea.

[55:45] I think it's a good idea.

S3

[55:52] It's a good idea.

[55:53] And then there's these sci-fi elements that kind of are in pockets throughout the kind of pastoral farm community.

[56:04] And this had the same kind of vibe where you hit this pocket.

[56:08] And I thought it was pretty nice looking throughout the rest of the movie.

[56:13] It was kind of like a peak.

Elliott Kalan

[56:15] Yeah, I think so too.

[56:17] But what I like also is that it's kind of got a mod style to it.

[56:20] But the secret lab looks like something that people threw together in a preexisting room, which I really liked.

[56:25] As opposed to every X-Men villain has a secret lab that looks like it was built by a crew of hundreds.

[56:33] And I'm just like, was Mr. Sinister really like using an electric screwdriver, like installing all these panels to cover up all the wiring?

[56:40] Like there's no way that Apocalypse hired a contractor to do this.

[56:44] So was he really like lying down underneath the counter, like wiring up all of his big computers and stuff?

[56:50] But this looks like a place.

[56:52] I can't believe comic books anymore.

Stuart Wellington

[56:53] Tying up the cables so he doesn't trip on them or they don't get confused.

Elliott Kalan

[56:57] The scales are falling from my eyes.

[56:59] Yeah.

[56:59] They know that Apocalypse is like, oh, I need more zip ties to get these cables into bundles.

[57:04] And he goes to the store and he doesn't have a credit card or like – or I guess maybe he needs cash to pay for this.

[57:12] Like is he going and like pawning ancient Egyptian artifacts or something like that?

[57:16] Like what does Apocalypse have that's valuable?

[57:18] I have to assume.

[57:18] Yeah.

[57:19] Good point.

[57:20] Anyway, and then suddenly he's got to prove the provenance of it.

[57:23] It's either that or he's out there busking, hustling to get that bag.

Stuart Wellington

[57:26] Again, a movie I would rather see.

Elliott Kalan

[57:28] Yeah, you've got this immortal mutant Apocalypse who has wires that for some reason go from his elbows to his torso and a big belt buckle that says A.

[57:36] And he's just playing a violin on a subway platform to get enough money to pay for these zip ties for his cable bundles.

[57:42] Anyway, they take him – so Miss Brunner writes goodbye on the wall of Dimitri's room and it fills with gas.

[57:48] And they take Jerry to my favorite room in the whole place, which is the brain room.

[57:52] It's just fake brains in fish tanks with liquid and wires going into them.

[57:57] And they're like, oh, yeah, we're harnessing all the knowledge of these brilliant brains so we can feed all human knowledge into this computer and then feed it back into the head of the perfect immortal person, which seems like an extra step that maybe they don't need.

[58:10] But I don't know.

[58:11] And they're like, we can't seem to crack feeding all the knowledge into a human brain.

[58:15] So here's a solution.

[58:16] Two human brains.

[58:18] Two brains.

[58:19] And it's like that wasn't your first solution.

[58:21] Like I don't understand.

[58:21] You've already got a bunch of brains.

[58:22] It's like that's literally how life works is that human knowledge is distributed throughout multiple brains.

[58:28] So the idea that like – wait, I got it.

[58:29] Two brains.

[58:30] There's a real Elon Musk quality of it where it's like I'm a genius.

[58:33] You know how people should travel in cities?

[58:35] Tunnels.

[58:36] How come nobody ever thought of this brilliant idea before?

[58:39] It's just so good I'm rediscovering human civilization one invention at a time.

[58:42] So they explain to Jerry Cornelius in more interesting words than this that his dad built a kind of prism chamber.

[58:49] He built it in Lapland because Lapland gets six weeks uninterrupted sunlight.

[58:54] And the non-setting sun puts all this solar radiation that's going to be stored up in this prison.

[58:58] We're going to put two people in there at just the right moment.

[59:01] Then we're going to combine them into a double-brained, self-regenerating, immortal superperson.

[59:07] I'm going to mention they throw the word hermaphrodite around here.

[59:10] It's kind of a problematic word for them to be using here.

[59:12] It's not really necessary for what they're talking about.

[59:15] They were going to merge Miss Brunner and Dimitri, but now Miss Brunner wants to use Jerry.

[59:21] And who wouldn't?

[59:21] Why wouldn't you want to be one half of an immortal superbeing that is an alcoholic addicted to chocolate biscuits who cannot get through a single day without pissing off everybody around him?

[59:33] And it's kind of like mopey all the time.

S3

[59:35] He didn't think about it very much either when she asked him.

[59:37] He just kind of went, okay.

S5

[59:40] It is worth noting, too, to really reiterate the fact that he's an alcoholic.

[59:45] He has a small kind of wet bar in the dashboard of his car.

[59:51] And he just pops pills into as well when he's drinking.

[59:55] So, yes, very much like not even like a textbook alcoholic.

[59:59] Kind of like a comic strip alcoholic.

S3

[1:00:01] He's got a custom-built bar on the dashboard of his car.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:05] Like Andy Capp is like, bro, you need to cool out for a little bit.

[1:00:09] Go home to your wife.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:10] Dude, have some hot fries.

[1:00:13] Go home.

[1:00:13] Sleep it off.

S3

[1:00:15] Have 40 years of a comic strip that's not funny and get back to it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:21] That is – there is like – I don't know enough about the origins of Andy Capp.

[1:00:26] But it's like – I assume it's built off of that like some – the love of the dad from – Mr. Doolittle from My Fair Lady where it was like English drunks, lower-class English drunks are hilarious.

[1:00:39] Like this is the new part of culture.

[1:00:42] The same way that there was like that hillbilly culture craze in America for a while.

S3

[1:00:45] It's like the lockhorns too for British people, like, right?

[1:00:49] Like Andy Capp and his wife can't get along.

[1:00:53] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:00:54] Except for there's more implication that Andy Capp is perhaps violent.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:58] I don't know.

[1:00:59] Well, with the lockhorns, I always assumed that that is a message that is being sent by the United States government secretly to aliens or demons that have threatened the earth.

[1:01:08] And it's that they've said, you need to send us messages in the lockhorns or else we're going to destroy your planet.

[1:01:14] And it's like every day.

[1:01:16] We've got to have another lockhorns ready for them.

[1:01:18] It's the only thing that tells them the message of what's going on.

[1:01:21] Like it wouldn't surprise me if the news tomorrow was like, oh, it turns out KGB agents were sending messages through the lockhorns for 50 years to their American sleeper agents.

S3

[1:01:31] Kind of a new appreciation for the lockhorns.

[1:01:33] Wow.

[1:01:33] No, it's no pogo, right?

[1:01:35] Come on.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:36] I mean, it is no pogo.

[1:01:37] Don't slam pogo around Dan.

[1:01:39] It's not even a Beetle Bailey.

[1:01:41] Now, here's the thing about Beetle Bailey.

[1:01:43] Uh-huh.

[1:01:44] Go on.

[1:01:44] Tell me about Beetle Bailey.

[1:01:46] So Beetle Bailey is the brother of High from High and Lois, right?

[1:01:52] Like that's where they come from?

[1:01:53] Yes, that's true.

[1:01:53] So is it – I'm trying to come up with some – I guess the analogy would be that like Beetle Bailey is to High and Lois as Perfect Strangers is to Family Matters.

[1:02:03] Does that mean anything to anybody?

[1:02:05] Should that be on the SATs?

Dan McCoy

[1:02:06] I mean it means something.

[1:02:08] Okay.

[1:02:09] I don't know what it means.

[1:02:11] It means it's past L.A.

[1:02:12] It's bedtime.

[1:02:14] Sculpt it out of mashed potatoes and say this means something.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:17] Guys, I have this yarn board of spinoffs that I wanted to show you that proves that High and Lois and Family Matters take place in the same universe.

[1:02:25] Okay.

[1:02:25] So, guys.

[1:02:27] Dimitri, he escapes.

[1:02:28] He attacks Jerry.

[1:02:29] They fight.

[1:02:30] There's a couple funny lines that Jerry has here that, again, he is a hero who is very okay with openly talking about how he is bad at fighting.

[1:02:37] And it is just – Gressman, he has the line and he goes, help, Miss Brunner, I'm losing, which I think is – which to me was a funny line.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:44] And they're constantly like tripping, falling over things.

[1:02:47] The pieces of the set that are there all fall over very easily.

[1:02:51] Like if there's a can in that room, it's not full of anything.

S5

[1:02:55] Was it that fight scene or was it one earlier where there was that exchange with like, oh, I'll staple your balls to the inside of your thighs.

S3

[1:03:03] I don't have any.

[1:03:04] Everybody has thighs.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:05] Yeah, that's earlier.

[1:03:06] That's earlier.

[1:03:07] There's a couple of wisecracks.

[1:03:10] This fight, Stuart, you're right, reminds me of the fight Mystery Science Theater Connection in the episode Future War, which seems to take place in an empty cardboard box warehouse.

[1:03:18] It's just like they need things for them to bump into but don't want to fill those things.

[1:03:21] Okay.

[1:03:22] Miss Brunner shoots Dimitri, but they've got to hurry to pull off this experiment.

[1:03:26] They put Jerry in the chamber.

[1:03:27] He's kind of out of it.

[1:03:28] Miss Brunner comes in in a kind of see-through nighty and the scientists bicker a lot.

[1:03:32] And Jerry and Brunner have kind of like – it's not quite wrestling and it's not quite sex and it's not quite a fight.

[1:03:38] They just kind of roll over each other over and over again while they talk.

[1:03:41] They have a tumble.

[1:03:42] Yeah, they're just tumbling.

[1:03:43] Yeah.

[1:03:44] And the screen gets all psychedelic and the brains are not happy about it, the brains in the jars.

[1:03:50] And the scientists are like, ah, we're in pain and they're falling down and I'm not sure why.

[1:03:54] And the lab is a mess when it's all done.

[1:03:56] And you see that one of the scientists, his shirt is just gone.

[1:03:58] He's just not wearing it anymore.

[1:03:59] I'm so glad somebody else noticed that.

Dan McCoy

[1:04:01] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:02] Thank God.

[1:04:02] I was like, what scenario was going on where either his reaction was that he ripped his shirt off or somehow the solar radiation energy just tore his shirt off.

[1:04:10] But everyone else's shirts are fine.

Dan McCoy

[1:04:12] Well, also, like all the scientists, like after the end of this are like all but one are like dead on the floor.

[1:04:17] But you don't actually see them injured per se.

[1:04:21] They're just in pools of blood.

[1:04:23] Yeah.

[1:04:23] So you're not really sure what happens.

[1:04:24] Lots of blood.

[1:04:25] Like almost too much blood for a person.

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:28] Now, you have just ushered in a new age of humanity.

[1:04:32] All the scientists are dead.

[1:04:33] There's blood everywhere.

[1:04:34] Is this a circumstance when I can touch the wheel of fortune?

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:39] I got to refer you to the sign.

[1:04:42] It says under no circumstances.

[1:04:44] I apologize.

[1:04:45] I know that – and you'd have more luck touching the actual wheel of fortune that will move us out of Kali Yuga and into the next age of spiritual and human development than touching that one.

[1:04:55] And I guess you're going to have to talk to – it's not a Merv Griffin production, I don't think.

[1:04:59] I don't remember who makes wheel of fortune.

[1:05:01] But you're going to have to talk to them.

[1:05:02] But under no circumstances, it says.

[1:05:04] Yeah, that's too bad.

[1:05:05] The door opens.

[1:05:06] We get a double vision point of view shot.

[1:05:08] That's right.

[1:05:09] It's another thing like Westworld where you see the point of view of a superior being and it looks worse than normal human vision.

[1:05:15] It's weird.

[1:05:16] It's walking through the lab.

[1:05:17] It finds Dimitri and Dimitri says, are you the messiah?

[1:05:23] And you hear Jerry's voice say, I don't know.

[1:05:26] Let's just say it's the end of an age.

[1:05:28] And then we see Jerry and he's very clearly not the messiah.

[1:05:31] He is the caveman from altered states but kind of like hunched over and with too much makeup on.

[1:05:36] And he goes, see you around, sweetheart, in a Humphrey Bogart voice.

[1:05:39] And then just kind of –

[1:05:40] We have to stop right here.

S3

[1:05:43] Let's digest.

[1:05:45] This is the thing that –

[1:05:47] Was this when the movie broke you for sure?

[1:05:49] That Matt and I saw.

[1:05:51] Okay.

[1:05:51] And it was a bit troubling.

[1:05:54] And it was one of those things – I mean, I think that there's confusion in this movie.

[1:06:00] But there were a few moments of windows of like really – a really exciting idea.

[1:06:06] But that was so fucking weird.

[1:06:11] He says that.

[1:06:12] And then later, Matt and I kept like trying to remember exactly what he said.

[1:06:18] Like, did he say 23 skidoo?

[1:06:22] Hey, I got a snort in the back of my truck.

[1:06:28] Like, we couldn't remember.

[1:06:29] It was like, here's looking at you kids.

[1:06:30] But it could have been anything, right?

S5

[1:06:32] Well, it was more so that it was a Humphrey Bogart impression.

[1:06:35] Like, we were so thrown off by that that we couldn't remember the actual line.

[1:06:39] And we just kept thinking to ourselves like, why was it a Humphrey Bogart impression?

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:44] That's one of the things that dates this movie so much is even more than like his clothes is that –

[1:06:49] That was the time of the Humphrey Bogart resurgence when like Humphrey Bogart stuff was really cool for young people

[1:06:55] because he was considered the most counterculture of the classic Hollywood stars.

[1:07:00] So like –

[1:07:00] You got to bring that back.

[1:07:01] That's why like Play It Again, Sam, like stuff like that exists was because it was like, oh, yeah, Bogart.

[1:07:07] But it dates it more than anything that at that moment this guy who's supposed to be like a counterculture figure is like, Humphrey Bogart impression.

[1:07:16] That'll show I'm cool and like jokey.

[1:07:18] You know, the kids will get it.

Dan McCoy

[1:07:20] It is also so strange, this creature that he turns into because, you know, Jerry is supposed to be this like ultra cool, you know, drugs imparting, like, but also brilliant guy.

[1:07:37] Miss Bruner is this like, you know, seductress who is also like a praying mantis, like eats those she mates with.

[1:07:47] And you kind of expect once they are merged at the end into this super being that it's going to be this kind of like beautiful androgynous, like Tilda Swinton, David Bowie, like everyone's struck by how gorgeous –

S5

[1:08:01] I was expecting like the things at the end of Dark Crystal.

Dan McCoy

[1:08:05] Yeah, but instead it's like, oh, here's a caveman who talks like Humphrey Bogart.

Elliott Kalan

[1:08:11] It's the ultimate apex of human evolution is a caveman who talks like Humphrey Bogart and walks with a sort of like jaunty kind of like shuffle and has bad vision, needs glasses.

S3

[1:08:21] And they put a lot of work into that because it was a really seamless makeup.

[1:08:26] Even his body was misshapen and there were a lot of prosthetics all over his body and that was really well done.

[1:08:35] And the idea that, yeah, like you said, Elliot, it's like the accumulation of all human knowledge, the thing it must do is let you know that it's seen in old Humphrey Bogart.

[1:08:50] It's so wrong and at the same time, it was chilling.

[1:08:56] It was chilling to me and I don't know exactly why.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:00] I think – so this is an example much like the movie Cats of a perfect execution of a flawed concept, I think, where like – I think the director watched this and was like, this is exactly what I am going for.

[1:09:14] There is no compromises.

[1:09:16] He's a kind of caveman.

[1:09:18] He knows Humphrey Bogart.

[1:09:20] He's going to wander out and say it's a very tasty world.

[1:09:22] We're going to have more psychedelic lights and a sort of psychedelic version of a Looney Tunes end ring around the screen.

S3

[1:09:29] And then he was –

[1:09:30] He was Bugs Bunny.

[1:09:32] That's what was so weird is that he's almost – he's almost being as flip as Bugs Bunny.

[1:09:39] It's like, I thought I took a lap that Albuquerque, you know, it seems like the supreme being is talking like Bugs Bunny now.

S5

[1:09:47] Yeah.

[1:09:48] Yeah, and he just kind of saunters into oblivion.

[1:09:50] But he's walking on water, right?

S3

[1:09:52] He's walking on water and it's this kind of murky – it's kind of this murky world that's ahead of you that isn't at all – we're not inside the building anymore.

[1:10:04] It's like a primordial swamp that he's walking out into.

[1:10:08] So that doesn't track either.

[1:10:11] No.

Stuart Wellington

[1:10:11] Yeah.

[1:10:12] I mean, never have I wanted to be in a – like a festival critic screening of a movie as I would have wanted to be in a movie theater in 1973 hearing the reaction in the end.

S5

[1:10:27] Wow.

[1:10:27] Well, I have to say too, when I first watched this, like generally I look at the movie like by myself and decide if it's something I want to have Joel take a look at too.

[1:10:39] And like – so you mentioned like her see-through nightie and there's kind of like a lot of nudity in the third act.

[1:10:46] And I remember telling Joel like I found this really weird movie but I don't think it's right for the show.

[1:10:52] Like it has a fair amount of nudity in it.

[1:10:54] And he was like, oh, well, how much?

[1:10:55] Like maybe we can cut around it.

[1:10:57] And I was like, well, in the end shot it's just like a butt like for the whole thing.

[1:11:03] Yeah.

[1:11:04] Yeah.

[1:11:05] I don't think we can cut around it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:08] So it's a – yeah, I think that it was – this is a movie – when it first started I was like, oh, yeah, I had a similar thing.

[1:11:13] And I was like I could see why they would do this as a mystery science theater movie.

[1:11:16] And then, yeah, it was – throughout it it was a little too grown up.

[1:11:19] And then, yeah, it's just a caveman's butt walking away.

[1:11:21] I have to admit that the – I guess when we get to Final Judgment, I'll elaborate on this.

[1:11:26] But like when they – all the stuff of that secret lab is really playing directly to my tastes.

[1:11:32] But then as soon as he comes out and he's a Humphrey Bogart spouting caveman, I was like –

[1:11:36] Did you just say Humphrey Bogart in like a ghost?

[1:11:39] Yeah.

[1:11:40] We talk a lot about ghosts in my family and also boogers.

[1:11:42] So there's a – so I didn't mean – Humphrey Bogart is – I mean now he is Humphrey Bogart, right?

[1:11:48] Yeah.

[1:11:48] Let's be honest.

[1:11:49] It's been long in a while.

Dan McCoy

[1:11:50] Yep.

[1:11:51] He's legally – you have to refer to him that way.

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:54] Let's call a spade a spade.

[1:11:55] Sam Spade.

[1:11:56] Thank you.

[1:11:59] Now I just – while we were talking, I was looking up the IMDb trivia about this movie.

[1:12:03] Apparently, Timothy Dalton was originally supposed to play the Jerry Cornelius role.

[1:12:07] What?

[1:12:07] And they were hoping that Vanessa Redgrave would play Miss Brunner.

[1:12:11] And I wonder if they'd be able to pull it off.

S6

[1:12:14] Also, this is trivia.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:15] According to Michael Moorcock, who visited the set, George Colores was very baffled by the script.

[1:12:20] Which seems like not – shouldn't be trivia.

[1:12:23] It should be just taken for granted that whoever was in the movie was baffled by it.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:26] Also, audiences were.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:28] But do you think that having an actual James Bond – not yet, but eventual – and a Redgrave would have carried this movie or not?

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:38] I think it would have stepped up the intensity of both of those characters.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:42] Yeah, that's fair.

[1:12:43] Yeah.

[1:12:45] Yeah.

[1:12:45] They both seemed kind of like, oh, these are people that I understand why I didn't quite know who they were.

[1:12:52] Like, they're fine, but –

S5

[1:12:54] Yeah, it is interesting for a movie to not give us a single likable character.

[1:12:58] Okay, so now –

[1:12:59] Like, it is kind of audacious.

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:00] So now, fantasy casting.

[1:13:02] Okay, but what if it was Paul Rubens and Cyndi Lauper?

[1:13:05] Do you think they would have been able to carry them?

[1:13:06] Sign me up.

[1:13:07] Wow.

[1:13:07] Sign me up.

[1:13:08] Yeah, I do.

[1:13:09] Okay, here's another one.

[1:13:10] Here's another one.

[1:13:11] This is an interesting pairing.

[1:13:12] Pauly Shore and Agnes Moorhead.

[1:13:13] Do you think they'd be able to pull it off?

S3

[1:13:15] Wow, that's actually pretty cool.

[1:13:17] Yeah.

[1:13:18] I'd be curious.

[1:13:19] This movie felt to me like it was Rocky Horror without the music or fun.

[1:13:26] You know what I mean?

[1:13:28] Yeah.

[1:13:28] It was kind of like they're recreating life.

[1:13:31] And it had that kind of cavalier 60s vibe.

[1:13:36] Like, everybody's – you know, sexual norms are out the window now.

[1:13:41] Let's just have fun with it.

[1:13:43] And it kind of felt like that as well.

[1:13:46] That kind of alt sci-fi fantasy vibe is throughout this movie as well.

[1:13:51] But what I thought was so hard was they never had a moment where Jerry Cornelius was not just depraved and not just didn't care about anything.

[1:14:04] So how do you have a movie with that?

[1:14:07] Or is this for our final judge?

[1:14:09] Well, you know what?

[1:14:10] Let's go into it.

[1:14:11] Yeah.

[1:14:12] I just found that really hard.

[1:14:14] Like, when does he stop being flipped?

[1:14:18] Like, every fight he's in, he's joking.

[1:14:20] Like, it doesn't matter if I'm alive or dead.

[1:14:23] It doesn't matter if the world's alive or dead.

[1:14:25] Like, that kind of – it almost can't – you almost can't relate to it as a normal person and go, why should I care?

[1:14:36] You don't – you're rich and you don't care.

[1:14:38] So what are we supposed to do with that?

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:41] Yeah.

[1:14:42] He's, like, not cool enough to be a cool cynic and he's not, like – or to be a romantic cynic.

[1:14:48] And he's not – it's not like the arc of the movie is to show him that life is worth living as long as you have the chance to become an immortal, two-brained Humphrey Bogart-quoting caveman.

[1:14:57] Yeah.

[1:14:58] Like, although he does say – actually, you know what?

[1:15:00] He does say – he walks out and he says it's a very tasty world.

[1:15:04] Like, maybe that is – that's his arc is that, like, he realizes this is what I need.

[1:15:07] I need it to be covered with hair.

[1:15:09] I need it to have knowledge of all Humphrey Bogart.

[1:15:11] Maybe he's never seen a Humphrey Bogart movie.

[1:15:13] Yeah.

[1:15:13] And he's never seen anything he really connects with.

[1:15:15] And all human knowledge included, like, In a Lonely Place and stuff like that.

[1:15:19] And now he's, like, I get it.

[1:15:20] There are people out there like me.

[1:15:22] Not like me.

[1:15:22] I have two brains and I'm a caveman.

[1:15:24] But like me.

[1:15:25] And so, finally, I can live in this world.

[1:15:27] Whereas before there was no one like me, a Nobel Prize winning alcoholic scientist who's in love with his sister possibly and has a CO2 needle gun.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:35] All right.

[1:15:37] Elliot, shut up.

[1:15:38] We got to get our special guests out of here.

[1:15:40] So, let's do our final judgments fast, which is where we say if it's a good, bad movie, a bad, bad movie, a movie we kind of like.

[1:15:49] You know, good, bad, you know, movie.

[1:15:52] Yeah, you know.

[1:15:52] You have fun watching because it's so bad.

[1:15:54] You know.

[1:15:55] But, like, I don't think that these categories work, unfortunately.

[1:15:59] No.

[1:15:59] We run into the snow.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:00] Joel and Matt, you should know that almost every episode the categories don't match up really well to what we're doing.

Dan McCoy

[1:16:06] Yeah.

[1:16:06] I want to say that, like, my experience of this is, like, I'm mildly glad I saw it.

[1:16:13] But the pleasures of this movie for me are all kind of, like, pop culture nerd intellectual where I'm like, okay, let me try and parse where this fits into, like, culture.

[1:16:24] Like, okay, it's got this counterculture thing and it's, like, mod English.

[1:16:30] But it also fits into, like, this particular counterculture, like, trend within science fiction writing.

[1:16:39] And it's got that vibe of, like, the Avengers or, like, even, like, Hammer films or whatever.

[1:16:45] So, like, trying to place it and trying to understand the currents of culture that put this nonsense in front of my brain is kind of where I found the fun in it.

[1:16:56] But I don't know.

[1:16:57] What do you guys think?

S3

[1:16:59] I agree.

[1:17:01] I think that it's an artifact.

[1:17:04] It's this kind of, like, confection.

[1:17:07] I had never heard.

[1:17:08] I've never heard of this movie ever or seen an image from it.

[1:17:14] And it was that thing where, again, because when Matt and I kind of jumped through it, you know, it's kind of like we'll watch it and we'll go, let's go downstream and we'll go 10 minutes down and watch some more.

[1:17:27] And each time we were watching it, there was something kind of interesting going on.

[1:17:31] And then we go, oh, this is great.

[1:17:34] And we didn't know what the rules were for the Flophouse.

[1:17:37] And we were going, can we watch the movie?

[1:17:40] Should we watch the movie?

[1:17:41] And so we didn't watch it.

[1:17:43] We thought maybe we were going to watch it all together.

[1:17:45] So we didn't watch the whole thing.

[1:17:46] And then last night we watched the whole thing.

[1:17:48] So it was kind of like that.

[1:17:50] But I feel the same way.

[1:17:51] And it's kind of like Dan was saying, it's kind of like this.

[1:17:58] It's fun to see the connection that how this movie seems other movies together that were trendy and that they were kind of borrowing things from.

[1:18:08] So it's almost like a composite drawing of a bunch of other movies with a little, with a narrative that's strung together that isn't working because nobody gets excited about rich people that are bored.

[1:18:22] Yeah.

[1:18:22] Like it just can't work.

[1:18:24] So that was what, yeah, I guess that's my take on it.

[1:18:26] Unless you're Tennessee Williams.

[1:18:27] Yeah, that's true.

[1:18:29] And you're writing about them.

[1:18:30] Yeah.

S5

[1:18:31] I mean, I guess the only thing I can say is that out of all the movies I've seen, this was one of them.

S3

[1:18:36] Yeah.

[1:18:38] You know, I love that reaction from the movie.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:44] Is it?

S3

[1:18:45] Yeah.

[1:18:46] Yeah.

[1:18:46] I think it is.

[1:18:46] You're quoting.

[1:18:47] Was it?

[1:18:48] I didn't even realize.

[1:18:49] Out of all the.

[1:18:50] What was it?

[1:18:50] What did they do?

[1:18:51] Out of all the movies we've riffed, this is one of them.

[1:18:54] Or out of the movie, all the movies you'll see this year, this is one of them.

[1:18:57] I think that's.

[1:18:58] Oh, that's like the tagline for the movie, right?

[1:19:00] Yes.

[1:19:01] Oh, OK.

[1:19:02] We'll follow up with you.

[1:19:03] Come on.

[1:19:04] Oh, I'm tired.

Stuart Wellington

[1:19:06] Come on.

[1:19:06] Go ahead.

[1:19:07] Think of something original.

[1:19:08] Stuart, what did you want to say?

[1:19:09] I mean, I have a limited amount of patience for like 70s surreal weirdo stuff.

[1:19:14] I mean, I like The Visitor and The Visitor is pretty cool.

[1:19:16] And that's, you know, weird.

[1:19:19] The Visitor's great.

[1:19:21] Yeah.

[1:19:21] I mean, this just didn't have.

[1:19:23] It felt like alternately like it was trying too hard and it wasn't trying to let me like

[1:19:28] or let me like any of the characters at all.

[1:19:31] So, yeah, I'm not a fan of the final program.

[1:19:35] I'm glad it's the last one.

[1:19:37] You know what I mean?

S5

[1:19:40] Elliot, I swear if you do another Mimsy joke.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:43] I learned my lesson.

[1:19:45] I'm not doing any more jokes about Mimsies.

[1:19:48] Thank God.

[1:19:48] So I feel like my reaction to this is a little different than you guys.

[1:19:52] This is a movie that I actually kind of liked a little bit.

[1:19:55] It is slow.

[1:19:57] It makes no sense.

[1:19:58] And you're right.

[1:19:59] The characters give you nothing to latch on to and the story is not that interesting.

[1:20:04] But I'm a real sucker for 70s science fiction stuff and 70s kind of weirdness stuff.

[1:20:09] And like I said, I'm a fan of almost any movie where you go to a hidden scientific base

[1:20:15] and it looks like it was thrown together with duct tape and zip ties.

[1:20:19] And they just give you a bunch of scientific mumbo jumbo about the next stage of humanity.

[1:20:24] And then there's a lot of weirdness that happens.

[1:20:26] When he comes out as a caveman, that was a disappointment to me.

[1:20:29] That was not a pleasant surprise.

[1:20:32] But there were – for all the things in it that I didn't necessarily like,

[1:20:37] there were a lot of things that hit the stuff I like.

[1:20:41] And I just felt that – I like the kind of mix of kind of mod science fiction made out of 70s stuff

[1:20:47] and also just every now and then seeing a real rundown train station, you know,

[1:20:52] just kind of like a crappy train station.

[1:20:54] So I wouldn't recommend it to anybody.

[1:20:56] But I would say the part of me that genuinely likes Sardaz I think also genuinely likes this movie a little bit.

S3

[1:21:02] Also, too, like sometimes we think about the best – like Matt and I will think about the best context for a movie.

[1:21:09] And this movie would be really cool if you had it running like during a party.

[1:21:14] Yes.

[1:21:15] Yeah.

[1:21:15] Like that would win.

[1:21:16] You would win if you had it running.

[1:21:18] If there was no expectation like you don't have to do anything.

[1:21:22] And people say that about the new Cats movie too, that it would actually be fantastic if it's just playing on the TV during a party.

Elliott Kalan

[1:21:29] I would say Cats rewards a close viewing in hilarity.

[1:21:34] But I think if – the way that you guys first watched the movie I think is the right way to watch it where you're just skipping around in the movie.

[1:21:41] Yeah.

[1:21:41] Because it doesn't – the scenes don't really matter and you just see a bunch of neat stuff and hopefully you'll get some science mumbo jumbo in there.

[1:21:50] And – but the movie did make me feel good about my decision to not throw myself into the oeuvre of Michael Moorcock and get lost in his dozens of novels about the same hero reverberating throughout history.

[1:22:03] Stu, rebuttal?

Stuart Wellington

[1:22:03] We'll talk about that.

[1:22:04] We'll talk about that another time, Elliot.

[1:22:06] I don't think this is the place.

S3

[1:22:07] I want Matt to have a shot at going back at his remark.

[1:22:11] You can use the same one, which is the tagline for Mystery Science Theater.

[1:22:17] You can use that.

S5

[1:22:17] What I'd like to do is personally apologize to the MST3K fan base who are a lovely group of people.

[1:22:25] Please don't let my ignorance inhibit you from donating to our Make More MST3K Kickstarter campaign.

[1:22:33] That's right, guys.

[1:22:34] I promise I'll be less ignorant in the future.

Elliott Kalan

[1:22:36] Let's hear about this Kickstarter campaign.

[1:22:38] Let's hear again.

[1:22:39] Where can we find this Kickstarter campaign and how can we contribute to it and what can we get from it?

[1:22:43] Joel?

S3

[1:22:43] Make More MST3K.com.

[1:22:47] It's on Kickstarter.

[1:22:49] We're making new shows.

[1:22:52] It's like the one we did six years ago.

[1:22:54] It's new shows and its own online theater called the Gizmoplex and lots of amazing rewards.

[1:23:03] And we're working with our Kickstarter guru, Ivan Asquit, who's brilliant.

[1:23:09] And we're happy to be working with him again.

[1:23:11] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:11] I know.

[1:23:12] I'm going to be contributing.

[1:23:13] And if you're like me, and I know I am, do as I do and contribute.

[1:23:16] Now, that's from—

[1:23:17] That's two MST lines back to back.

S3

[1:23:19] There you go.

[1:23:19] Okay.

[1:23:20] So—

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:20] Those are two classics.

S3

[1:23:21] I don't want to hear it.

[1:23:21] To be really strict, it was, I think, also the fire sign theater.

[1:23:26] Yeah, yeah.

[1:23:27] That too.

[1:23:27] I know I am, right?

[1:23:28] Right?

[1:23:29] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:30] So, yeah, I mean, so I'm stealing from Mystery Science Theater, stealing from Fire Sign Theater.

S3

[1:23:34] No, we've taken so much, you guys.

[1:23:36] There was—

[1:23:37] There was an episode—

[1:23:38] And we're going to take more.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:39] I feel like this has been my life experience with Mystery Science Theater is the thinking something is funny and not knowing why and then hearing the original.

[1:23:46] And there's one episode, Joel, where you're just like, you know, everyone knows funds where the fair's at.

[1:23:51] And I was like, what is—what?

[1:23:53] And then eventually hearing, what is it, we're all bozos on this bus?

[1:23:56] And being like, oh, okay, that's what that's from.

[1:23:59] So if you want more of that rich tapestry of jokes, pokes, riffs, and gifs, then just go to—what is it?

[1:24:07] Bring back MST3K.com?

[1:24:08] Make more.

[1:24:09] Make more.

[1:24:09] Oh, make more.

[1:24:10] I'm sorry.

[1:24:10] I apologize.

[1:24:11] Don't listen to me.

[1:24:11] Make more MST3K.com.

S3

[1:24:13] Thanks, you guys.

[1:24:14] Hey, it was so much fun being here.

[1:24:15] Thank you, guys.

[1:24:16] Thanks so much for coming on.

[1:24:17] Yay.

[1:24:18] This has been great.

[1:24:18] It's been great.

[1:24:19] We're so glad to have you on.

[1:24:25] Hey, kid.

Dan McCoy

[1:24:26] Your dad tell you about the time he broke Stephen Dorff's nose at the Kid's Choice Awards?

S3

[1:24:32] In Dead Pilots Society, scripts that were developed by studios and networks but were never produced are given the table reads they deserve.

S5

[1:24:40] When I was a kid, I had to spend my Christmas break filming a PSA about angel dust.

[1:24:44] So, yeah, being a kid sucks sometimes.

S3

[1:24:47] Presented by Andrew Reich and Ben Blacker.

[1:24:50] Dead Pilots Society, twice a month on MaximumFun.org.

S6

[1:24:55] You know, the show you like, that hobo with the scarf who lives in a magic dumpster.

[1:25:02] Doctor Who?

[1:25:03] Yeah.

[1:25:07] Hey, J. Keith.

S7

[1:25:08] Hey, Helen.

[1:25:09] Hey, you've got another true-false quiz for me?

S6

[1:25:11] Yep.

[1:25:11] Our trivia podcast, Go Fact Yourself, used to be in front of a live audience.

S7

[1:25:15] True.

[1:25:16] Turns out that's not so safe anymore.

S6

[1:25:18] Correct.

[1:25:18] Next.

[1:25:19] Unfortunately, this means we can no longer record the show.

S7

[1:25:22] False.

[1:25:23] The show still comes out every first and third Friday of the month.

S6

[1:25:25] Correct.

[1:25:26] Finally, we still have great celebrity guests answering trivia about things they love on every episode of Go Fact Yourself.

S7

[1:25:33] Definitely true.

S6

[1:25:34] And for bonus points, name some of them.

S7

[1:25:36] Recently, we've had Ophira Eisenberg, plus tons of surprise experts like Yardley Smith and Suzanne Somers.

S6

[1:25:42] Perfect score.

[1:25:43] You can hear Go Fact Yourself every first and third Friday of the month with all the great guests and trivia that we've always had.

[1:25:49] And if you don't listen, well, then you can Go Fact Yourself.

[1:25:52] That's the name of our podcast.

[1:25:54] Correct.

[1:25:55] Woo-hoo.

Dan McCoy

[1:25:56] The Flophouse is sponsored in part by Storyblocks.

[1:26:00] Yeah, it is.

[1:26:00] Now more than ever, storytellers and content creators are challenged with producing more video content at a higher quality than ever before.

[1:26:09] Keep up with the growing demands for modern video content without sacrificing your vision with stock media from Storyblocks.

[1:26:16] Storyblocks is dedicated to being the world's best royalty-free stock media subscription service with an ever-growing library that has over 1 million high-quality stock assets, including 4K-HD footage, After Effects, and Premiere Pro templates, music, images, sound effects, and more.

[1:26:37] They have affordable subscription plans and tools, and with Storyblocks' unlimited all-access plan, you can get unlimited downloads of everything in their library.

[1:26:45] And even if your subscription ends, everything you've downloaded is yours to keep.

[1:26:51] You know, if you make video stuff, sometimes you just need some stock footage of, I don't know, a guy crossing the street or something that you don't want to steal something.

[1:27:01] You don't want to get something uncopyrighted.

[1:27:03] You're putting this out in the world.

[1:27:04] This is your creation.

[1:27:06] You want to buy stock footage.

[1:27:08] Alex mentioned before, for the last live Flophouse show on Zoom, I made a video where I sang a song about how I had to pee and we're having intermission because I got to pee.

[1:27:20] And I got to tell you, great, high-quality, high-def images of things like a clown dancing that I put in the background.

[1:27:28] But anyway, so if you want to explore their library and subscribe today, you can go to storyblocks.com slash flop.

[1:27:37] That's storyblocks.com slash flop.

Elliott Kalan

[1:27:41] Hey, Dan.

[1:27:42] You know, the Flophouse is also supported in part by Libby.

[1:27:46] I want to tell you guys a little story.

[1:27:47] So this is a true story from my life.

[1:27:49] I'm recording this right now from my in-law's house in Northern California.

[1:27:52] Two days ago, my family, we're driving up here in our car.

[1:27:55] It's a six-hour drive on a good day.

[1:27:58] And what happened this most recent time?

[1:28:00] Traffic.

[1:28:00] Bad traffic.

[1:28:01] Suddenly, we're crawling through downtown Walnut Creek.

[1:28:04] No thank you.

[1:28:05] Normally, in this situation, my kids would be—

Stuart Wellington

[1:28:07] You should have stayed in the car instead of crawling.

[1:28:08] That's true.

Elliott Kalan

[1:28:10] That's a good point.

[1:28:10] Anyway, normally, I'll continue—

Stuart Wellington

[1:28:11] And you probably listen to all the talk radio you can normally listen to, right?

Elliott Kalan

[1:28:15] Yeah, yeah.

[1:28:15] So I'm going to continue with the ad now.

[1:28:17] We'd already listened to the Moana soundtrack probably 17 times.

[1:28:21] Normally, in that situation, my kids would be throwing a full-on rebellion.

[1:28:24] But not this time.

[1:28:25] Why?

[1:28:26] One word.

[1:28:27] Libby.

[1:28:28] Libby is a free reading app created by Overdrive that lets you borrow e-books and audio books from your library on your phone, tablets, Kindles, computer.

[1:28:35] If it's electronic, you can borrow things on it with Libby.

[1:28:38] All you need is a valid library card from your library.

[1:28:40] And even if you don't have a library card currently, you can read samples of any book you see.

[1:28:44] It works just like your physical library.

[1:28:46] With Libby, you can borrow available books you want to read, and they return themselves automatically after your loan expires.

[1:28:52] I wish my physical library worked that way.

[1:28:54] My fines would not be so high.

[1:28:56] So we're driving up north, and each time the kids are getting restless, we just hit the Libby.

[1:29:00] Bam!

[1:29:00] House on Pooh Corner.

[1:29:01] Boom!

[1:29:02] Marvelous Land of Oz.

[1:29:03] Kapow!

[1:29:04] Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone.

[1:29:05] Also, they have picture books even.

[1:29:07] Probably all kinds of grown-up books.

[1:29:08] I don't know.

[1:29:08] I don't get to listen to grown-up books anymore.

[1:29:10] It's two.

[1:29:11] It's a great e-book and audio book service, and you don't feel the guilt that comes with patronizing, let's say, a huge corporation that treats its warehouse workers like dirt.

[1:29:18] Because it's all through your local library.

[1:29:21] So download Libby in the Apple App Store or Google Play Store to start borrowing and sampling e-books and audio books today.

[1:29:28] I recommend it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:29:29] Yay!

[1:29:30] Boom!

[1:29:31] Stuart?

[1:29:31] And you know what that sound is?

[1:29:33] That's an incoming Jumbo-tron!

[1:29:37] Boom-boom-boom-boom!

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:38] I like that last ja that came a little bit after the other ones.

Stuart Wellington

[1:29:40] Yep.

[1:29:42] This message is for Tom.

[1:29:44] This message is from Sarah.

[1:29:47] This April, Tom and I celebrate our fifth wedding anniversary.

[1:29:52] Since we can't travel, I wanted to ask the peaches to give my sweetheart a shout-out.

[1:29:59] Tom, you're the bee's knees, my snickerdoodle, and I can't imagine being stuck at home with anyone else.

[1:30:07] Also, from our house cat to yours, rarow.

[1:30:12] Or bow-ma-mow.

[1:30:16] That was a sweet message.

[1:30:19] Yeah.

[1:30:20] That was very sweet.

Dan McCoy

[1:30:21] And you're named after one of the best cookies.

[1:30:25] Tom?

[1:30:26] No, no.

[1:30:27] The snickerdoodle.

[1:30:29] The pet name.

[1:30:29] Oh, okay.

Elliott Kalan

[1:30:30] No, Tom's are pretty good, too.

[1:30:32] Tom's of Maine cookies.

[1:30:33] It's made out of beeswax or something.

[1:30:34] Oh, yummy.

[1:30:35] Yeah.

[1:30:37] You all get any plugs before we move along?

[1:30:39] Were those Tom of Finland cookies?

[1:30:40] Hold on a second.

Stuart Wellington

[1:30:42] Oh, boy.

[1:30:42] Check it out.

[1:30:43] Just Google that.

Elliott Kalan

[1:30:45] Just Google it right now.

[1:30:45] Before you do that, I have one thing I'd like to plug.

[1:30:48] My comic book, Maniac of New York.

[1:30:50] New issues are still coming out.

[1:30:51] Issue three comes out April 14th.

[1:30:53] It'll be in comic stores.

[1:30:54] And if you can't make it to your local store where they're sold out, you can also get it on Comixology.

[1:30:59] But as always, support your local comic book store.

Stuart Wellington

[1:31:01] Yeah, and if you're running away from the Maniac in New York, why don't you come to Hinterland's Bar or Minnie's Bar and say hi and buy some stuff.

Dan McCoy

[1:31:14] You're welcome.

[1:31:16] So let's move on to letters from listeners.

[1:31:20] Like you.

[1:31:22] I got a couple of letters here and I can't remember whether I pulled them up on my phone or on the computer.

[1:31:28] So it looks like it's time for a song.

Elliott Kalan

[1:31:31] Because we got a couple of letters and it might be long.

[1:31:35] Till Dan pulls them up on his device.

[1:31:37] Wouldn't it be nice if he did it ahead of time?

[1:31:41] But hey, I'm sure he's a busy guy.

[1:31:44] Doing stuff like watching TV and reading old comics.

[1:31:48] Thinking about things nobody cares about.

[1:31:51] That's right, Dan's a busy guy.

[1:31:53] Once he missed part of a movie because he was cutting a mango up.

[1:31:58] He could have paused it, but he didn't.

[1:31:59] He's a busy guy.

[1:32:01] He doesn't have time for all of that stuff.

[1:32:04] No, Dan's so busy.

[1:32:05] He doesn't have time for what you might call the very basics of producing a podcast.

[1:32:11] That he's been doing for almost a decade and a half.

[1:32:15] He's Dan.

[1:32:19] He's a busy, busy, busy, busy, busy, busy, busy guy.

[1:32:23] Busy guy starring Dan McCoy as himself.

[1:32:25] Created by Chuck Lorre.

Dan McCoy

[1:32:28] I did have it pulled up.

[1:32:29] I just couldn't remember whether it was on my phone or my computer.

[1:32:33] And then I chose the wrong one.

[1:32:35] But anyway.

Elliott Kalan

[1:32:35] Sometimes Dan has two screens open.

[1:32:38] It's a second screen experience.

[1:32:41] And Dan doesn't know what screen to look at.

[1:32:44] This modern world's so full of screens.

[1:32:48] Everybody knows what I mean.

[1:32:50] Hey, guys.

[1:32:51] Does this look green?

[1:32:53] I'm pointing to a toe that I stubbed the other day.

[1:32:57] Hey, Dan's got too many screens.

[1:33:00] Dan's got too many screens is brought to you by Rolled Gold Pretzels.

[1:33:04] Wow.

[1:33:05] Thanks.

[1:33:06] That's a big one.

Dan McCoy

[1:33:06] So, all right.

[1:33:07] Here's the first letter.

[1:33:08] It's from Marissa, last name with Hal.

[1:33:10] So, what screen were they on?

Elliott Kalan

[1:33:11] Just so that our audience gets closure.

Dan McCoy

[1:33:13] What?

[1:33:14] It was on my phone.

[1:33:16] But then once I was using my laptop, I decided to go with it.

[1:33:20] Greetings, peaches.

[1:33:22] Any longtime Flophouse devotee knows that the show's deep sea plot is the discussion and celebration of newspaper comic strips and their characters and lore.

[1:33:31] Yeah.

[1:33:32] We did plenty of that already in this episode.

[1:33:35] Yeah.

[1:33:36] Recently, thanks to the Flophouse Facebook group, I was introduced to the current Farsight-esque single panel iteration of Heathcliff.

[1:33:43] Example, on the day I'm writing this email, today's Heathcliff features the eponymous cat standing in the living room, hands folded behind his back facing a birdcage.

[1:33:52] The bird appears to be speaking to Heathcliff.

[1:33:54] The caption shows us what the bird is saying.

[1:33:58] I have friends who are bees.

[1:34:01] My burning desire to know what the Flophouse fellas think about this bizarre, racy new Heathcliff gave me an idea.

[1:34:07] A spinoff podcast, perhaps a series of minis, perhaps an iPodiest-thel donors-only bonus miniseries, where the three of you unleash all of your comic strip thoughts, feelings, and arcane knowledge into the world.

[1:34:21] What strips do you think would provide the most fodder for such a series?

[1:34:24] What are your thoughts on Peter Gallagher's Heathcliff?

[1:34:28] Remember to save some of the good stuff for the spinoff podcast.

[1:34:31] Okay.

[1:34:32] Love and thanks for everything.

[1:34:33] Marissa, last name withheld.

[1:34:35] I will say about Heathcliff specifically.

Stuart Wellington

[1:34:37] Just make sure you don't give up too much.

[1:34:38] You got to keep some behind the paywall.

Dan McCoy

[1:34:40] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:34:41] Put it on your premium, dude.

Dan McCoy

[1:34:44] When I was a kid, I don't know whether this version of Heathcliff was always like this.

[1:34:50] When I was a kid, I remember Heathcliff, and I was like, oh, this is off-brand Garfield.

[1:34:55] I'm not interested in this.

[1:34:57] I'm a kid.

[1:34:57] I like really obvious things, like a cat that talks about how he likes food and hates Mondays.

[1:35:05] But now that I'm an adult, I don't know whether the surrealist Heathcliff is new or it's always been the case, but I get a kick out of it.

[1:35:14] I don't understand it, but that's the joy.

[1:35:18] Yeah.

[1:35:20] I don't know.

[1:35:20] If I was going to do a Flophouse-style one, one of the most inexplicable ones to me is Fred Bassett, which I don't think I've ever detected a joke in.

[1:35:29] Oh, no.

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:30] Fred Bassett is just about a depressed dog.

[1:35:32] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:35:32] Yeah.

[1:35:33] So that would be a good one, I think.

[1:35:38] Stuart, would you just talk about how attractive you find the mom in Rose's Rose?

Stuart Wellington

[1:35:42] I find her very attractive, Dan.

[1:35:44] She knows it.

[1:35:45] I send her letters all the fucking time.

[1:35:48] It's become a problem.

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:49] I mean, the mom in Rose's Rose resembles your actual wife in a number of ways, from her tough attitude to her red hair.

[1:35:58] Uh-huh.

[1:35:59] Curly red hair, yeah.

[1:36:00] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:36:01] Well, I don't know.

[1:36:02] I feel like it might be helpful for a show, you know, to sustain a show.

[1:36:09] We might want to pick something with really deep narratives.

[1:36:12] So I don't know, like the Slylock Fox or like Funky Winker Bean.

[1:36:21] We talk about Funky Winker Bean a lot on this show.

[1:36:24] That's because, you know, we love it.

[1:36:26] It's Dan's favorite comic strip.

Elliott Kalan

[1:36:27] I feel like Funky Winker Bean is famously on the internet, at least, the comic that gets the most of that type of flop style coverage because it's so inexplicably sad.

[1:36:36] Yeah.

[1:36:36] When it's mostly meant to just do jokes about band teachers, you know.

[1:36:41] But I think I want to mention, first off, who am I attracted to on the comics page?

[1:36:46] The mom in the family circle, but after the haircut, you know the one I'm talking about.

[1:36:49] When they cut their hair to make it, she cut her hair to make it a little more modern.

[1:36:53] I think my thoughts on Heathcliff are—

Stuart Wellington

[1:36:55] You said Family Circle.

[1:36:57] Is that the same thing as Family Circus?

[1:36:59] Oh, sorry.

Elliott Kalan

[1:36:59] I meant Family Circus.

[1:37:00] Family Circle is a magazine, which I'm also sure is full of hot moms, but I haven't looked at it too much.

[1:37:06] The thing about Heathcliff I wanted to mention is that when I was a kid, I would actually skip the main comic strip and just read the last panel where readers would send in their stories about how weird their cats were at home.

[1:37:17] That was more entertaining to me than the actual comic strip.

[1:37:21] But this just goes to speak about how, like, there are a lot of comics that last for a long time on inertia.

[1:37:29] And so I think maybe I would cover Mama, the comic strip about a mom and her son.

[1:37:35] Oh, yeah.

[1:37:35] And there's no jokes in it, and it's not a pleasant-to-look-at strip.

[1:37:41] And even as a kid, I was like, why is this here?

[1:37:43] Like, why is this in here?

[1:37:44] I don't understand this.

[1:37:46] Either that or that Prince Valiant strip where there's almost no—there's no dialogue balloons.

[1:37:52] It's just illustrated pictures.

[1:37:54] And as a kid, I could not—it was something that I was so baffled by.

[1:37:59] I wasn't understanding what I was supposed to get out of it.

[1:38:02] Yeah, like Mark Trail or something.

Stuart Wellington

[1:38:04] Mark Trail had great nature tips.

[1:38:06] I feel like we should do it based on that comic strip, Caroline and the City.

[1:38:12] Well, that's actually not a real strip, Stuart.

[1:38:15] Wait a minute.

[1:38:15] But she made the strips on the show, so, like, would they just throw them in the fucking trash?

[1:38:22] Yes, they did.

[1:38:23] They didn't want it, and they'd publish them.

[1:38:24] That would have been a great amount of—like, that would be perfect synergy.

[1:38:27] Yeah, tie-in.

[1:38:28] Yeah, tie-in.

Elliott Kalan

[1:38:28] Yeah, well, what you're learning is that you could have hung out outside of her apartment

[1:38:31] and just picked up the old strips from the garbage, and you'd have priceless pieces of art.

[1:38:35] Wait, they shot that in her apartment?

[1:38:38] Yeah, they shot it in her—Leah Thompson's actual apartment that she bought with her Howard the Duck royalties.

[1:38:44] And it's just—yeah, I mean, we should get in touch with her and just ask her what she did with all that original—

Stuart Wellington

[1:38:48] Wait, so she bought the apartment with her royalties.

[1:38:52] So if she bought the apartment with her royalties, she then decided to, what, subsidize the mortgage on the apartment by shooting it there so she could charge the production extra money.

[1:39:03] Yeah, that makes sense.

[1:39:04] Oh, man.

[1:39:04] Yeah, that's how they get you.

Elliott Kalan

[1:39:05] Double dipping, you know?

[1:39:06] It's overhead.

[1:39:07] They say it's overhead, and they pay themselves, you know?

[1:39:09] Yeah.

[1:39:10] Also, she stole all her clothes from that show, and also the theme song.

[1:39:13] And I don't even know what you're going to do with that theme song, but she just walked away with it one day, and she just keeps it at her house, which is that apartment.

Stuart Wellington

[1:39:19] Oh, yeah, I mean—

[1:39:20] Interesting.

[1:39:21] It'd be weird to walk off set if you're just walking back into your own apartment, though, you know what I mean?

Elliott Kalan

[1:39:26] That's fair.

[1:39:27] Yeah, this is—

[1:39:27] I guess, yeah, really the hard—I guess she just stopped them from taking the things out of her apartment.

[1:39:32] Yeah, that's actually true.

[1:39:33] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:39:35] Okay, so let's move on to the second and final letter of this particular episode, which goes—

Elliott Kalan

[1:39:42] Dan, before we do that, I have two other songs about the two-screen problem before.

[1:39:46] I have two parody songs.

[1:39:47] I'll do one now and one after this letter.

[1:39:50] So this first one, of course, you'll remember what the source of it is.

[1:39:52] Whatever happened to the letters from the listeners?

[1:39:55] I thought they were on my laptop, but maybe they're on my phone.

[1:39:58] Ah, everywhere you look, everywhere there's a letter.

[1:40:03] Or maybe it's on another screen now.

[1:40:06] Anyway, so that was the first one.

[1:40:08] I'll have another one after this letter.

Stuart Wellington

[1:40:09] I'm glad you interrupted Dan for that one.

[1:40:10] Okay, thank you.

Elliott Kalan

[1:40:12] So—

[1:40:12] I mean, I'm always glad I interrupted Dan.

[1:40:14] I get a little endorphin boost each time.

[1:40:15] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:40:16] That explains it.

[1:40:17] This is from James, last name withheld.

[1:40:21] Who writes—

[1:40:21] James L. Brooks?

[1:40:23] It's James L. Brooks, right.

Elliott Kalan

[1:40:24] His name is James A.T.G. Peach.

Dan McCoy

[1:40:29] After hearing the recommendation for Stewart's performance as Tube Man in Psycho Gorman, I went looking for his IMDB.

[1:40:36] Psycho Gorman.

[1:40:37] Mm-hmm.

[1:40:37] Yep.

[1:40:38] I gore man.

[1:40:39] I don't know.

[1:40:40] Gorman.

[1:40:41] Yeah.

[1:40:42] I recognize the title Snatchers from the pod, but was surprised by another title I don't recall ever hearing discussed.

[1:40:51] That is the 2005 movie The Wiggles Sailing Around the World.

[1:40:56] This film features Stewart Wellington in the role of friendly pirate crew.

[1:41:00] Yeah.

[1:41:00] Is there a reason this hasn't made it to recommendations before?

[1:41:04] And should I expect the usual level of gore from this as I do in all Wellington vehicles?

[1:41:09] Uh-huh.

[1:41:09] Keep flopping me mateys.

[1:41:11] James, last name withheld.

Stuart Wellington

[1:41:12] You know, I've been—

[1:41:13] So, okay.

[1:41:13] Explain yourself.

[1:41:14] This has come up a lot.

[1:41:16] I get asked this a lot on social media, at the bar, on the street, at the grocery store.

[1:41:22] Mm-hmm.

[1:41:22] And the short answer is, if I made this movie, I do not remember it.

[1:41:29] So, I—

[1:41:30] I mean, 2000—what was that?

[1:41:32] 2005?

[1:41:34] That was a kind of weird time to be a Stewart.

[1:41:37] Okay?

[1:41:38] Mm-hmm.

[1:41:38] So, I came—

[1:41:39] A Stewart?

[1:41:40] A Stewart.

[1:41:41] Yeah.

[1:41:41] Yep.

[1:41:41] Me, Stewart Pankin.

[1:41:43] That's it.

[1:41:44] I don't know any other Stewart's.

Dan McCoy

[1:41:45] It was a weird time to be a Stewart Pankin.

Stuart Wellington

[1:41:48] Like, do I have a career anymore?

[1:41:50] I don't know.

[1:41:50] Where am I?

[1:41:51] Uh, so, I mean, long story short, I don't think it's me.

[1:41:56] Uh, you might want to watch it, and if it's me, send me a—you can tweet at me.

[1:42:00] You can send Dan an email at, uh, Dan at Gmail or whatever.

[1:42:04] I don't remember what his email is.

[1:42:06] Uh-huh.

Dan McCoy

[1:42:07] I'm just looking to—sorry, I'm distracted because I'm looking to see what Stewart Pankin

[1:42:11] was doing in 2005.

Elliott Kalan

[1:42:13] This is important.

[1:42:14] This is important stuff.

Dan McCoy

[1:42:15] Look, uh, he was on two episodes of Curb Your Enthusiasm.

[1:42:19] Okay.

[1:42:19] Makes sense.

[1:42:20] Which, I guess, started in 2005, or—no, this is in 2005.

[1:42:25] He was in these episodes.

[1:42:26] Great.

[1:42:26] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[1:42:27] Uh, and so, Stewart, uh, so you're saying that you don't have any hilarious behind-the-scenes

[1:42:31] anecdotes about your time with the Wiggles.

Stuart Wellington

[1:42:33] I don't.

[1:42:34] I mean, again, I—there might be some out there.

[1:42:37] There might be accounts out there, but I don't remember them at this point, so who knows.

[1:42:42] Maybe if I get—maybe if I get hit on the head with another coconut, I'll remember them.

Elliott Kalan

[1:42:47] That's how it works.

[1:42:48] Remember, if you get hit—if you get hit too many times, you'll lose all your memory forever.

[1:42:53] I got that from an episode of Charles in Charge.

[1:42:55] Uh-huh.

[1:42:56] Yep.

[1:42:56] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:42:58] So, Stewart Pankin seems to have, uh, 161 credits.

[1:43:04] Yeah.

[1:43:04] Um, some of them, you know, just this year.

[1:43:07] So he's doing okay.

[1:43:08] Yeah.

[1:43:08] If you thought that after not necessarily the news and, uh, nearly departed, uh, that was

[1:43:14] the end of Stewart Pankin.

Elliott Kalan

[1:43:16] I mean, the fact is, Stewart Pankin's acting is just a side hustle.

[1:43:20] He got rich off of Panko, which is what he invented.

[1:43:23] Wow.

[1:43:24] And he's just been given pretty.

Dan McCoy

[1:43:26] Yeah.

[1:43:27] I mean, they are the superior breadcrumb for frying, so—

[1:43:32] So thank you, Stewart Pankin, for toiling away in your garage lab to get us the exact

Elliott Kalan

[1:43:39] best crumbs for frying it.

[1:43:41] Mm-hmm.

[1:43:42] Mm-hmm.

Dan McCoy

[1:43:44] Yeah.

[1:43:45] Okay.

[1:43:45] Well, that was great.

[1:43:46] So now we're gonna do recommendations.

[1:43:48] So now—wait.

Elliott Kalan

[1:43:48] I've got my last song.

[1:43:50] Oh, okay.

[1:43:50] Okay.

[1:43:51] This goes, do-wop, do-pa-do-way, do-wop, do-pa-do-way.

[1:43:55] Which of Dan's screens has the letters questions on it?

[1:43:59] Okay.

[1:43:59] That's the last one.

Dan McCoy

[1:44:01] Okay.

[1:44:02] Thank you, Rockapella, for stopping by.

[1:44:05] Rockapella-y it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:44:06] That's when I do an impression of Rockapella.

Dan McCoy

[1:44:11] The thing that we do now is we recommend movies, movies that might be more immediately

[1:44:16] rewarding than the final program.

[1:44:21] I haven't seen a lot recently, but I did watch the SpongeBob SquarePants movie from 2004.

[1:44:27] Go on.

[1:44:29] 2004's SpongeBob movie.

[1:44:32] You finally caught up with it, huh?

[1:44:33] A trim 87 minutes.

[1:44:35] Love that shit.

[1:44:36] And, you know, I didn't grow up with SpongeBob.

Elliott Kalan

[1:44:46] I love that every comment you have now is secondary to the runtime, which was your main selling

[1:44:51] point.

[1:44:52] But you're saying, Audrey, did she grow up with it?

Dan McCoy

[1:44:55] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:44:55] Yeah.

[1:44:55] She's like nine years younger than me.

[1:44:58] She's not like hugely younger, but she's definitely of a different enough generation that she grew

[1:45:04] up with SpongeBob.

[1:45:05] So like a December-May romance or December-May.

[1:45:08] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:45:08] Well, he's not robbing the cradle.

[1:45:09] He's just robbing the middle school.

[1:45:10] Mm-hmm.

[1:45:11] Uh-huh.

Dan McCoy

[1:45:13] Let's not belabor this part of it too much.

[1:45:16] But she has introduced me to SpongeBob as a pleasant, funny thing to watch toss on the

[1:45:23] television.

[1:45:25] And a lot of great jokes.

[1:45:27] I like that the SpongeBob has sort of continued the older style of cartooning or cartoons where

[1:45:36] I feel like post-Simpsons and post-reduced cell animation, things got really tight and not as

[1:45:47] expressive.

[1:45:48] Like there's a lot of silly stuff on The Simpsons, but even so, they stay on model a lot.

[1:45:52] Whereas like a show like SpongeBob is like, we're going to push the character design in crazy

[1:45:59] directions.

[1:46:00] We don't care.

[1:46:00] We don't care if this is on model.

[1:46:02] Like we're going to have a scene where SpongeBob and Patrick slowly, you know, dehydrate and

[1:46:10] it's crazy how weird they look.

[1:46:13] And I just like that it has that zany quality that I think got lost somewhere along the way

[1:46:20] with some cartoons and I found it very funny.

Stuart Wellington

[1:46:23] So Dan, if you had to cast SpongeBob SquarePants using only the members of the Flophouse, who

[1:46:28] would play whom?

Dan McCoy

[1:46:31] Okay.

[1:46:32] Well, I am Squidward.

[1:46:34] Okay.

[1:46:35] Obviously.

[1:46:36] I'm glad you didn't make us point that out.

[1:46:38] I think that Elliot probably is SpongeBob, although he's a little more like deliberately irritating

[1:46:46] than SpongeBob.

[1:46:47] SpongeBob only annoys through like the goodness of his heart, whereas Elliot's more of a little

[1:46:52] stinker.

[1:46:55] And I guess you are Mr. Krabs?

Elliott Kalan

[1:46:59] Oh, Stuart would be that, who's that starfish who's always hanging out with SpongeBob?

[1:47:04] Oh, Patrick.

[1:47:05] Oh, yeah.

[1:47:05] Elliot got it right.

[1:47:06] Yeah.

[1:47:07] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:47:07] Elliot got it right.

[1:47:08] That's the right answer, Dan.

[1:47:09] You did it.

[1:47:10] What do you want your prize?

Elliott Kalan

[1:47:11] If Patrick had Mr. Krabs' job.

[1:47:14] Uh-huh.

[1:47:14] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:47:16] Okay.

[1:47:17] So what do you guys got?

Elliott Kalan

[1:47:19] Well, I was going to recommend 2004's SpongeBob movie, but I guess it's kind of on everybody's

[1:47:25] lips.

[1:47:25] You look like an asshole, right?

[1:47:25] You look like an asshole.

Dan McCoy

[1:47:26] Guys, a serious question.

[1:47:29] Do you think that was the biggest zag in terms of a recommendation on the Flophouse, or has

[1:47:35] there been a bigger one?

[1:47:36] I think that's one to open up to the fans.

Elliott Kalan

[1:47:38] Fans, do you remember a bigger zag than that one?

[1:47:41] Zag, a technical term meaning surprising recommendation.

[1:47:45] Mm-hmm.

[1:47:46] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:47:48] Let's see.

[1:47:49] I'll recommend, since we're recommending shorties today, right?

[1:47:53] It's all about shorties.

[1:47:55] Do you mean kids' movies or short movies?

[1:47:57] Short movies.

[1:47:58] Oh, okay.

[1:47:59] Although, you can watch this with a kid if the kid is pretty grown up and has a refined

[1:48:02] sense of taste.

[1:48:05] I'm recommending another Shudder movie.

[1:48:08] That's a movie you can see on Shudder.

[1:48:10] It's a movie called Slacks.

[1:48:12] That's because it's about a pair of killer jeans.

[1:48:15] And not just because they look good, it's because they kill people.

[1:48:19] Now, it's like-

[1:48:19] And that's with two X's, the slacks.

[1:48:21] Two X's.

[1:48:21] The spelling.

[1:48:22] Yep.

[1:48:23] And it is, and I'm not just recommending this, another Shudder movie because they sent me

[1:48:28] a gift basket full of Shudder treats.

[1:48:31] I appreciate that they respect that I am a cool influencer.

[1:48:37] But, yeah.

[1:48:39] So, Slacks is, I mean, it's a movie about a killer pair of jeans set in like an Old Navy

[1:48:46] style.

[1:48:47] I don't know.

[1:48:47] Is that a big box store?

[1:48:49] Is that a small box store?

[1:48:50] I don't know.

[1:48:52] It's a medium-sized box store.

[1:48:53] One of the sizes of boxes?

[1:48:53] Yeah.

[1:48:54] It's a medium-sized box.

Elliott Kalan

[1:48:55] So, I mean, the container store, I guess, would be like all those sizes of boxes in one store.

[1:48:59] Everything, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:49:00] So, you know, it plays with some pretty straightforward satire on like retail culture and hipster culture.

[1:49:09] And that stuff we've kind of seen a million times before.

[1:49:12] But the performances are all pretty fun.

[1:49:16] And it's super colorful.

[1:49:18] Maybe I was just excited after watching Justice League to see a movie that has a ton of colors in it.

[1:49:24] And it's shot really well.

[1:49:26] And it's fun to watch.

[1:49:27] And it's super short.

[1:49:29] So, Slacks.

Elliott Kalan

[1:49:32] And I'm going to recommend a movie that, I guess, I mean, I don't really remember the run time.

[1:49:37] It didn't strike me as being super long.

[1:49:40] I'm going to check it out real quick.

[1:49:41] So, I'll just fill up IMDb and see if I get that.

[1:49:44] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[1:49:44] So, this movie, I guess, is a recommendation.

[1:49:46] It's in honor of the late.

Stuart Wellington

[1:49:47] See if I got to bust your biscuits on this one.

Elliott Kalan

[1:49:48] Thanks.

[1:49:49] Yeah.

[1:49:49] Make sure.

[1:49:50] I'll get my biscuits ready for a possible busting.

[1:49:53] And they're ready.

[1:49:54] Okay.

[1:49:54] So, this one, it's in recommendation in honor of the late Joan McClendon Silver, who passed away at the end of last year.

[1:50:00] You may remember her from Crossing the Lancy or Hester Street, which is one of my favorite Carol Kane performances.

[1:50:07] Anyway, I watched a movie of hers I hadn't seen before.

[1:50:09] It's called Between the Lines.

[1:50:11] And it's a kind of ensemble comedy drama from the 70s about a countercultural newspaper that is outgrowing its position as a counterculture newspaper, basically, and how that affects the people who work at the paper.

[1:50:26] It's very 70s, but in a different way than the final program is very 70s.

[1:50:30] Hour 41, Elliot.

[1:50:32] Ooh, hour 41.

[1:50:33] So, you're going to want to watch this in three parts.

[1:50:36] Yeah.

[1:50:37] But the movie is also—

Stuart Wellington

[1:50:38] Well, what you've got to do is you've got to mess up a ton of dishes, like order some kind of meal that comes with all kinds of sauces and shit.

[1:50:45] So, you just fuck it all up so you'll have extra time to watch your movie.

Elliott Kalan

[1:50:48] You're going to want to keep burning the rice so you've got multiple pots to scour out so you can have enough time to watch it.

[1:50:55] It's also, in a lot of ways, relevant to this modern world of kind of scrappy startups selling out to big tech corporations and what that means for people.

[1:51:01] I feel like it goes one-to-one in some way.

[1:51:03] And it's got a great cast.

[1:51:04] It's got Lindsey Krauss, Gwen Wells, John Hurd, Bruno Kirby, Michael J. Pollard.

[1:51:08] And Jeff Goldblum is especially great in it as this kind of like—he's this rock critic who's kind of like if Kramer from Seinfeld was like a young, cool guy.

[1:51:17] And this is—I'm just going to say it.

[1:51:18] Top drawer, young, sexy Jeff Goldblum.

[1:51:20] Oh, no.

[1:51:21] You're going to want it.

[1:51:23] So, anyway, it's called Between the Lines.

[1:51:25] It's funny and serious, and it's on Canopy right now, I believe.

[1:51:28] So, if you, like me, enjoy Joan McClendon's over stuff and you haven't seen it, try Between the Lines.

[1:51:34] Not Between the Lions, which is a PBS show about reading.

[1:51:38] Starring the lions from the public library in New York.

[1:51:41] This is Between the Lines.

Stuart Wellington

[1:51:42] Wait, are they characters?

[1:51:43] Are they characters on that show?

Elliott Kalan

[1:51:44] They are characters.

[1:51:45] They are puppets on the show.

[1:51:46] Oh, that makes sense.

[1:51:47] That makes sense.

[1:51:48] Yeah.

[1:51:48] Of Patience and Fortitude, the two lions.

Stuart Wellington

[1:51:50] Thanks for proving you know the names.

[1:51:52] Yeah.

[1:51:52] So, we got—

[1:51:54] That was two shorties and a medium style.

[1:51:59] Mm-hmm.

[1:51:59] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:52:02] Great.

[1:52:02] I guess that makes one big movie burger that you can eat.

[1:52:09] Mm-hmm.

[1:52:09] Yep.

Elliott Kalan

[1:52:10] Just get a shortie.

[1:52:11] Stick a meaty inside there.

[1:52:12] Get another shortie.

[1:52:14] And that's your movie witch.

[1:52:15] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:52:16] Sorry.

[1:52:16] Muscles is biting me now.

[1:52:19] You're saying, well—

[1:52:20] This episode sucks.

[1:52:21] Stuart, stop it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:52:22] If people didn't know that your cat's name is Muscles, then the grammar of that sentence

[1:52:26] would really baffle them.

Dan McCoy

[1:52:27] Okay, well, we don't want to anger Muscles further, lest he consumes Stuart.

[1:52:35] He's going crazy.

[1:52:37] Oh, he is.

[1:52:38] He is actually going crazy.

[1:52:40] Let me get a screenshot of that, so maybe I can sit it out with the—

[1:52:44] Oh, he's such a crazy boy.

[1:52:46] He's saying, I'm the star of the show now.

[1:52:48] Put me on the air.

Stuart Wellington

[1:52:49] I'm the mama.

Dan McCoy

[1:52:51] Anyway.

[1:52:51] Let us say goodbye for another episode.

[1:52:59] Thank you so much to our guests, Joel and Matt, for being here.

[1:53:03] A dream.

[1:53:04] What a treat.

[1:53:06] Thank you to Jordan Cowling for producing the show.

[1:53:09] Thank you to Maximum Fun.

[1:53:10] Go over to MaximumFun.org for other great podcasts on this great podcasting network.

[1:53:19] And if you have the champs, let people know about the show.

[1:53:23] Tweet about it.

[1:53:24] Review it on iTunes.

[1:53:25] But for now, I have been Dan McCoy.

[1:53:29] I am Stuart Wellington.

Elliott Kalan

[1:53:32] My name's Elliot Kalin.

[1:53:35] I don't know why we're all talking a little bit like the movie phone guy, but not exactly like the movie phone guy.

[1:53:45] But okay, I'll run with it.

Dan McCoy

[1:53:48] This has been The Flophouse, rated R.

[1:53:52] Goodbye.

Elliott Kalan

[1:54:10] Y'all ready for this?

[1:54:12] For this?

[1:54:18] MaximumFun.org

S7

[1:54:22] Comedy and culture.

[1:54:24] Artist owned.

[1:54:25] Audience supported.

Ep. #340 - The Final Programme, with Joel Hodgson and Matt McGinnis

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