FH Mini #42 - Elliott Explains Adam Warlock

[0:00] Hey, everybody. Welcome to The Flophouse. It's a mini week on The Flophouse. That means

[0:09] it's time when we don't just watch a bad movie and then talk about it. In fact, we don't

[0:13] not just, we don't do it at all. It's not that we don't do it in addition to that. It's

[0:17] that we just don't do it. So we do whatever we want to do. Now, regular listeners of The

[0:22] Flophouse will know that about two weeks ago, I really wanted to talk about my man, Adam

[0:28] Warlock, my second favorite Marvel character after Spider-Man. Of course, everyone's favorite

[0:32] Marvel character because he's the greatest character in fiction. And I got interrupted,

[0:36] unfortunately, by that dune blowhard, Tom Brokaw. So I'm here to tell you, tonight's

[0:41] the night. Dim the lights, maybe light some candles, pour some wine for yourself, maybe

[0:45] run a hot bath. We're talking about Adam Warlock tonight and no one, but no one is going to

[0:50] interrupt me. Dan Rather wants to come in and talk about Ringworld. I don't think so.

[0:54] No, thank you. You're, I'm having, you're like, you're, you're tempting Slice to let

[0:59] you break down the door. You're winding this up so much that even though I know that you

[1:03] sent us a document about with photos of Adam Warlock, not photos, like pictures. No, he's

[1:08] a fictional character in a comic book. Drawings of Adam Warlock. Even though I know that happened,

[1:13] I'm still scared that this is another fake out just because you're putting so much energy

[1:17] into saying that it's not one. Not at all. I want people to know that this is the night.

[1:21] Wait, there's somebody at the door. Hold on a second. Oh God. It's, it's actually the ghost

[1:26] of Peter Jennings. He's saying he loves Adam Warlock. He wants us to talk about Adam Warlock.

[1:30] So we'll do that tonight. Okay, Peter. But before I do that, my name's Elliot Kalin.

[1:33] Allow my cohost to introduce themselves. Yeah. Hi, I'm Dan McCoy. Hey, yeah, it's me. Stuart

[1:38] Wellington. Now, now that we're talking about ghosts, you know, what ghost would have been,

[1:43] uh, when that ghost was a living man would have made a great Adam Warlock.

[1:48] Dean fucking Stockwell. Oh, okay. Yeah. Dean Stockwell. He's got the body of a Greek God.

[1:55] And he's got amazing eyebrows. He's got a flair for dramatic fashion. Dean Stockwell. I win. I

[2:04] just won the game. Okay. I don't think you did. I'm taking my Nintendo home. I'm leaving the

[2:09] power cord for some reason. Just so I'll have an excuse to come back to see you. Okay. Well,

[2:14] now that Stuart's gone, took his controller home, his, his, his Timothee Chalamet,

[2:18] uh, uh, modified, modified controller. Uh, let's talk about Adam Warlock. Shall we? I apologize.

[2:25] I should have let my, uh, cohost introduce themselves earlier, but I'm just so excited

[2:29] about finally talking Adam Warlock with no interruptions whatsoever. Again, this is very

[2:34] worrying. So, uh, the reason that we're talking about Adam Warlock, other than the fact that he's

[2:40] amazing and there's no reason not to is the recent, not as recent as it was thanks Tom Brokaw,

[2:45] but the recent casting news that in guardians of the galaxy number three, that's the third in the

[2:50] guardians of the galaxy series. He's going to be played officially by Will Poulter guys. Who's

[2:55] Will Poulter? Where would I know? Will Poulter from? Oh, uh, the name sounds he's in midsummer.

[3:00] Let me look him up. Okay. Well, Stuart right off the bat had one of his credits midsummer,

[3:03] uh, Dan, on the other hand, uh, not don't know him. Okay. He was, um, he's in lots of stuff.

[3:11] He's an English actor. Uh, he was in, uh, we're the Millers. One of Dan's favorite movies is

[3:17] Detroit. Another one that Dan loves. Uh, I gotta say, I haven't, I don't know a lot about Adam

[3:22] Warlock, but some of these photos do look like the drawings I've seen just right off the bat.

[3:28] Uh, he was of course, Dan knows him best from son of Rambo. Uh, one of the many movies where

[3:33] kids do things that they can't really do in real life in terms of production design and, uh,

[3:38] production, uh, producing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just general producing anything. Uh, anyway,

[3:45] he's in a lot of stuff. You may know him, Dan from, uh, the Bandersnatch black mirror. I'm

[3:49] just looking at other credits of his. It's amazing how few of the things he's done. I have seen,

[3:53] I think I've only seen son of Rambo, which he was in as a child. Which one was, which one was,

[3:58] which one was a Bandersnatch? That's the multiple choice one, right? Oh,

[4:03] because I was like, I'm going to have fun with the whole time that I'm missing stuff that I

[4:07] should otherwise see. I'm just not even going to bother watching this. I somehow managed to see

[4:11] will we're the Millers in the course of my life. So yeah, I guess I've seen him in that. So who

[4:17] were the Millers? Why did we want to know about them? Uh, they're just, you know, some, some

[4:22] normal, funny people who get caught up together. They know they're trying to, you know,

[4:27] they pretend that they're a family. They, uh, it's like, yeah, there's like a pot smuggling

[4:33] scam that involves creating a fake family. Oh, I see. I was hoping it was like a, like a low-key

[4:39] reboot of meet the Apple gates. Oh yeah. Yeah. So it was, it was a low-key remake. Like they're

[4:46] instead of cockroaches, they're all low-key. It was, it was trying to be, it was no Elliot. It's,

[4:51] I was using some hip slang, meaning that it was, it was sneaky. There were, there was a

[4:56] sneaky reboot that they were trying to not draw attention. But in fact, they were still

[5:00] doing a sneaky reboot. Of course, as a sequel to Peaky blinders and, and, and a low-key tie

[5:07] into sneaky Pete, sneaky Pete, Peaky blinders crossover that America demanded.

[5:14] Again, I feel like as much as I like those Peaky bees, I feel like that lead is miscast. And the

[5:20] same thing with sneaky Pete, where it's like Giovanni Rabisi is supposed to be a confidence

[5:24] man, but the whole time he is like the squirreliest dude. Like I would not trust him with

[5:29] anything. No offense, my man. How about Peaky? How about Peaky sneak? Oh, I think, I think you

[5:37] can pull that off. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Uh, what about blind Pete from, uh, is that treasure?

[5:46] I don't say treasure on this blind pew, Dan, not blind. Oh, there's blind Pete from.

[5:51] It's nothing. It's just another combination of the sounds in Peaky blinders and sneaky Pete.

[5:57] I should have said, I should have said PD blinders. People who go around blinding people

[6:01] named Petey or by throwing Pete into people's faces, blinding them instantly,

[6:08] leaving them open to a visceral attack. Yeah. Anyway. So that's Adam Warlock. Thanks everybody

[6:14] for listening. I feel like, I hope you understand a little better. So anyway, Adam Warlock's going

[6:19] to be in a movie. Is this a little disappointing to me? Yes. Only in that I once soft pitched the

[6:24] idea of an Adam Warlock TV show. Didn't go anywhere. Anyway, why'd I do that? Cause he's

[6:28] my second favorite Marvel character. Let me explain who he is. Uh, I think people may remember that

[6:33] before Tom Brokaw interrupted me, I put him into layman's terms as Marvel's answer to Michael

[6:37] Moorcock's Elric of Melnibon, a who, who, you know, very well, Dan is a kind of, um,

[6:44] sure deck kind of a decadently self-involved and somewhat lazy, uh, elf King, right.

[6:51] He has a sword called Stormbringer who eats souls and he's just not having a good time of it.

[6:57] Uh, Adam Warlock has a few similarities with that. He's also what I would say is kind of a cosmic

[7:02] Jesus crossed with a little bit of Charlie Brown. Uh, and did I mention he's almost all powerful?

[7:07] Let's talk about him. Um, it's a little hard to describe him simply, which is why I'm interested

[7:12] in see how they're going to do in a movie because he's less a straightforward hero than kind of a

[7:17] seeker of personal peace who keeps getting forced to save the whole universe, even though he would

[7:22] really rather not be bothered. Uh, and it's also confusing to comic book fans because there's an

[7:27] X-Men character named Warlock and he has a villain named the magus and Adam Warlock's villain is also

[7:33] named the magus. So why would one universe have two sets of characters with the same names?

[7:38] I don't know. Ask Chris Claremont. He's the one who came last with his characters of Warlock

[7:43] and magus. So I don't know what to tell you. So who created Adam Warlock, Elliot?

[7:48] Let me tell you about it. Cause it's an interesting story. And first of all, before that,

[7:51] I'm going to say that one of the things I like about Adam Warlock that I find fascinating is one

[7:54] of the characters who the creator of the character was not the one who really made that character,

[7:59] the version that we know of today. Uh, much like Frank Miller did with Daredevil or Chris Claremont,

[8:04] who I mentioned before in a scathing way, but now I'm mentioning in a complimentary way,

[8:08] did with Wolverine and the X-Men. Adam Warlock is very much the product of a number of minds,

[8:12] but especially the hands and thoughts and hallucinogenic drug trips of one Jim Starlin.

[8:19] Let's get there. Adam Warlock. He first shows up in the 1960s in Stanley and Jack Kirby's run on

[8:24] the fantastic four. And, um, he, well, let me just say when he shows up, he's not exactly the Adam

[8:30] Warlock we all know and love, right? Cause Adam, cause, cause he disguises a robot clown like the

[8:35] Hulk was in the first Avengers comic. No, he wasn't, but that would have been great. He does

[8:40] show up on a planet of clowns later. We'll talk about that later. Dan, can you open up the images

[8:45] that I sent you? The document I sent you is full of images. Yeah. Yeah. I have the PDF open here.

[8:50] Okay. Before a PDF is also the, the sequel to sneaky Pete. Now, Dan, can you, can you describe

[8:56] for me a little bit, the first image, which is what I would call Adam Warlock classic.

[9:00] Okay. Well, uh, there's a very, uh, built gentleman who is kind of getting, you know,

[9:06] got like sort of spray tan orange is the base coat of, uh, uh, his skin. Um, he's sort of holding

[9:16] his hand and sort of, uh, a lush, but, uh, powerful manner. Um, he's got like a, a big old

[9:24] kind of Dr. Strange ish, uh, cloak. Um, but, uh, you know, what's the class that holds that

[9:32] clasp is a little skull. Um, he has these, uh, gold bracelets and, uh, uh, like, uh, what sort

[9:42] of like a WWE belt and, uh, gold, uh, boots that are, they're all kind of like Roman, uh,

[9:51] looking kind of like, you know, like a centurion kind of thing. And he's wearing full pants. He

[9:56] does not have full pants. He has red.

[10:00] Reefs is all, but it's like a wrestling outfit.

[10:04] Yeah.

[10:04] It's like a wrestling outfit.

[10:05] And he's got like a big main of, uh, of blonde hair.

[10:10] Yeah.

[10:11] Yeah.

[10:11] He's got a real Stewart Wellington head of hair there.

[10:13] Yeah.

[10:14] Yeah.

[10:14] That's true.

[10:14] Well, this, I feel like I'm going to go as Adam Warlock for, for a Christmas.

[10:20] Yeah.

[10:20] Your Christmas costume.

[10:24] Don't tell my family how to celebrate Elliot.

[10:27] You're like, you're, I'm not Christian.

[10:28] I don't know how it's done.

[10:29] You're like kids comes down on my lap and tell Adam Warlock what you want.

[10:32] And they're, and they're like, mommy, this man isn't wearing pants.

[10:36] And the, and the kid and the, and the parents are like, I'm not driving you

[10:39] all the way to the mall.

[10:39] Just, just, uh, just sit on his lap.

[10:41] Now this Dan, that was a great description.

[10:44] Now I want you to move to picture number two.

[10:46] This is Adam Warlock's first appearance, uh, in the fantastic four.

[10:50] And what does he, and so that's not him on the left.

[10:52] That's a woman that's Alicia masters.

[10:54] What is she approaching?

[10:55] What does it look like to you?

[10:57] Uh, it's kind of like a sarcophagus that, um, you know, it looks like sort

[11:03] of like a big old worm on the, on the Marvel by the month podcast.

[11:09] I believe I described it as looking like a coffin made out of ribs.

[11:13] Yeah.

[11:13] That that's also accurate.

[11:15] And then it has the top looks sort of like the eye of Sauron and miniature.

[11:19] That's fair.

[11:20] So this is our first look at what would become Adam Warlock.

[11:23] He is the creation of a group called the enclave who are scientists who are

[11:27] seeking to create a sort of super powerful man who is super strong, super

[11:31] tough, can channel cosmic energy, super smart, all that stuff.

[11:35] Uh, and when he hatches out, let's go to image number three.

[11:39] Uh, he is the figure known as him.

[11:43] Okay.

[11:44] That's his name, him.

[11:45] And can you describe him now?

[11:46] What does he look like now?

[11:47] He's not Thor or the lady.

[11:48] Now he looks kind of like, uh, if the silver surfer was the gold surfer,

[11:54] except he does have hair on like the silver surfer, but not the big main.

[11:59] It's kind of like plastered head.

[12:02] He looks a lot like Urien from street fighter.

[12:05] I can see that.

[12:06] I always think he looks like Rocky from the Rocky horror picture show.

[12:09] Oh yeah.

[12:10] Yeah.

[12:10] Very similarly.

[12:11] He's a, he's a lab created man.

[12:13] And in the story as done in the fantastic four comics, these evil scientists

[12:18] want to take over the world with their Superman.

[12:20] He emerges from his cocoon, I think in the last three panels of the book.

[12:24] And then says, you guys are evil.

[12:25] I'm destroying you.

[12:26] And he blows up their headquarters.

[12:28] We don't see him again for two years.

[12:30] Now there's an interesting story behind this comic, which is fairly bland.

[12:34] Uh, they spend so much time getting to this cocoon that he's in, that he's

[12:39] being born in, which is really fun.

[12:40] And then as soon as he emerges, it's a huge anticlimax.

[12:42] This was originally, uh, Jack Kirby's intention was that these scientists

[12:45] were not evil, but were instead sort of objectivist libertarians who wanted

[12:50] to create the perfect person who was purely logical and was not, didn't

[12:54] worry about that, about morals, the morals of the week.

[12:58] And when he, in his original conception of the story, when him comes out,

[13:03] he would say, I'm perfect.

[13:05] You are imperfect to me and you displease me.

[13:07] You have to go now and would destroy them.

[13:09] And it would show kind of like how without morality and without

[13:12] sensitivity and emotion, man is, is destructive or whatever, you know?

[13:17] Uh, and this was kind of, might've been him poking fun at fellow Marvel

[13:20] artist, Steve Ditko, who I can't remember if he was still working

[13:23] at Marvel at the time.

[13:24] Uh, but Stanley was like, eh, this is a lot of, this is a lot

[13:27] of stuff for kids to read.

[13:28] I'm just going to make it kind of a Frankenstein story.

[13:31] And so in his hands, him becomes kind of like, um, your basic, just

[13:36] born, super powerful man child.

[13:37] Who's just running around, not knowing anything about anything.

[13:40] And he tries to kidnap.

[13:43] Exactly.

[13:44] Yeah.

[13:44] And so he appears two years later, he shows up again to try to kidnap

[13:48] Sif's, Sif, Thor's girlfriend and Thor essentially beats him to death.

[13:52] Oh, wow.

[13:53] And, uh, this character would not show up again for like three more years.

[13:57] Uh, him would lay dormant, which is actually very in character for him.

[14:02] As we'll see.

[14:02] And a character for someone who's been beaten to death.

[14:05] Yep.

[14:06] That's true.

[14:06] They usually don't come back, but Adam Warlock.

[14:08] Sometimes they come back.

[14:10] Sometimes they come back.

[14:11] Yes.

[14:11] And sometimes they come back to, there was a right.

[14:15] Oh, anyway, they also come back as well.

[14:18] And then the third one is they're still coming back.

[14:24] Additional people want to come back.

[14:26] Do you have room?

[14:27] Is there anyone else who wants to come back?

[14:29] We're leaving now.

[14:31] You're going to have to wait for the next shuttle.

[14:34] So either come with us.

[14:37] And the next, the next one after that was, I'm sorry.

[14:40] I'm sorry.

[14:40] It's full.

[14:41] You're going to have to wait.

[14:42] You can't come back.

[14:43] So, uh, three years later, it's 1972.

[14:46] The year before a certain album.

[14:49] That's right.

[14:49] Jesus Christ superstar was rocking the charts.

[14:52] The concept rock opera about the final days of the supposed son of God by

[14:59] Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim Rice.

[15:00] Now who was under the heavy influence of that album?

[15:03] Why Roy Thomas, the man who basically took control of Marvel universe when

[15:06] Stanley got too busy to write the books on his own.

[15:09] And he decides I want to do a Jesus Christ type character and I'm going to

[15:12] bring back him only.

[15:14] Let's go to the next picture.

[15:15] I'm going to rename him Adam Warlock and Dan, can you describe or Stewart

[15:19] either one?

[15:19] Can you describe what Adam Warlock looks like in that picture there?

[15:22] Yes.

[15:22] Why don't you take this one?

[15:23] So this is the Marvel premiere number one, which introduced this new Adam

[15:27] Warlock figure.

[15:28] Yeah.

[15:28] So he looks a little bit closer to that original, the, the, the classic Adam

[15:32] Warlock.

[15:33] Uh, he's got kind of like a, like a flash Gordon suit, big, uh, big

[15:38] shoulders.

[15:39] It looks like he's surrounded by some kind of like jizz field.

[15:44] And he's got, uh, that's what I call it.

[15:46] Uh, and, and he's like, oh, and he's, I think he's got at this point, he's got

[15:51] those like trademark, like all white eyeballs.

[15:56] Yes.

[15:56] Yeah.

[15:57] It's like black outside.

[16:00] I'm trying to remember.

[16:00] And he's just like, he's like, he's like flexing like a maniac.

[16:04] Yeah.

[16:04] And behind him, he's got like a Shazam lightning bolt.

[16:06] Yes.

[16:06] And he's got a lightning bolt on his chest, uh, and, and Thor and Hulk are

[16:09] behind him.

[16:10] And they're like, what?

[16:11] Hulk?

[16:11] And Thor's like, I thought I killed you.

[16:12] And anyway, uh, Adam Warlock comes back.

[16:15] This is Roy Thomas writing and the artist by Gil Kane.

[16:18] Uh, the classic comic artist, best known for how he always kind of placed

[16:21] people so that you could see up their nostrils.

[16:23] I don't know why he just loved it.

[16:24] He loved to draw people where you're looking up their nose.

[16:27] Uh, what Steve Ditko was to hands Gil Kane was to noses again, putting it

[16:31] in layman's terms and they give him this name, Adam Warlock.

[16:39] They really, they really lay in the biblical tones and they decide that

[16:43] this character of Adam Warlock is going to start getting crazy because he

[16:47] is taken out of earth and he's brought back to life by the high evolutionary

[16:52] who is the guy at the top of these two pictures on the right.

[16:56] What do you guys know about the high evolutionary?

[17:01] He causes trouble at some point, right?

[17:03] He has caused trouble.

[17:04] He's obsessed with evolving things.

[17:06] Uh, he is, and he's a, he's a human scientist, but he wears this suit of

[17:09] armor and he's got a helmet that kind of has a handle on him in case you

[17:12] want to pick him up and carry him somewhere.

[17:16] It's like he, well, maybe there's an iron in his skull and he can take it out.

[17:19] Yeah.

[17:19] He looks like one of those, uh, those kettle kettle weights.

[17:22] Uh, yeah.

[17:25] Yeah.

[17:26] And so high, the high evolutionary has created another earth.

[17:29] He calls counter earth, which is on the other side of the sun.

[17:32] And he's got a bit of a problem because this counter earth, where things

[17:36] are a little bit different than the Marvel earth, there's not that many

[17:38] superheroes.

[17:39] Uh, Dr.

[17:39] Doom is a good guy.

[17:40] Although he still wears a metal mask.

[17:41] He, uh, he's got a problem with a character called the man beast who I

[17:47] believe was one of the high evolutionaries experiments gone wrong.

[17:50] He loved to take animals and turn them into people.

[17:52] Island of Dr.

[17:53] Moreau vibes and the man beast has the ability to basically bring out the

[17:57] beast.

[17:58] You'll hate in other people.

[17:59] That's him down at the bottom there.

[18:00] Dan, can you describe him in that, in that, uh, yeah, he's got, well, he's,

[18:06] he's got kind of like a, almost what looks like a, I don't know, just like

[18:10] an armored space suit, uh, your typical armored space suit.

[18:14] That's heavy on like emphasizing the abs and giving you like really big

[18:18] shoulders.

[18:19] Yeah.

[18:19] He's got eight abs in there.

[18:20] That's pretty easily.

[18:22] He's got a big green Cape that somehow cascades up, uh, above his shoulders

[18:28] before going back down.

[18:29] I'm not sure what's going on there.

[18:30] And his face, he's here to draw the armor that face candle.

[18:34] I mean, he kind of looks like a bat.

[18:36] Uh, yeah, he's got like, he's got like a jackal or a coyote head or something.

[18:39] Right now, this is a later version of the, of the, of the man beast, to be

[18:43] honest, but he looks at like this.

[18:45] The first time the man beast shows up also in Thor, he looks almost like just

[18:48] a guy who's half kangaroo and just wear shorts and you, and you, and the cover

[18:52] of that issue, I should have given it to you.

[18:53] It says, enter the man beast or something like that.

[18:55] And Thor should have a look on his face.

[18:57] Where he's like, seriously, am I, this is a guy I have to try to fight.

[19:01] Like I can hit him once and he's gone.

[19:03] Um, anyway, this is when, uh, Adam Warlock starts taking on these religious

[19:08] overtones that will continue throughout basically the rest of the history.

[19:12] Uh, the high evolutionary brings him back to life.

[19:14] He says, I'm going to give you something that's going to make you a little

[19:16] powerful and he puts, gives him the soul gem, which is a special magical cosmic

[19:20] gem.

[19:20] He says, you'll learn more about this later, which is a comic book writer's

[19:23] way of saying, I haven't figured this part out yet.

[19:25] Uh, so I'm going to make it mysterious.

[19:26] And that soul gem goes on as far ahead and gives him more power.

[19:29] And over basically 10 issues or so, Warlock is kind of like a violent Jesus

[19:34] figure where he's fighting the man beast and the man beast minions and high

[19:37] evolutionary is like, ugh, why don't I just destroy counter earth to stop this?

[19:41] And Warlock is like, give them another chance.

[19:43] Give the humans another chance.

[19:44] Anyway, it doesn't really work.

[19:46] Uh, by 1974, the book is over.

[19:49] Uh, Warlock dies.

[19:51] He comes back.

[19:51] He dies again.

[19:52] And we've learned by this point, eventually that when he dies, he just goes

[19:55] into a big ribs cocoon, like the one he was born in.

[19:58] And he just, at the end.

[20:00] That's when he's like,

[20:00] I think there's other planets that need me.

[20:01] And he flies off into space.

[20:03] Cool.

[20:04] Okay, the end of Adam Warlock, right?

[20:06] Wrong, guys.

[20:07] That's where Adam Warlock begins, as far as I'm concerned.

[20:10] Because this is where a certain man comes in.

[20:13] A man named Jim Starlin.

[20:15] Let's go to the next picture, shall we?

[20:17] You're gonna see a very overwrought picture of Adam Warlock.

[20:21] And I'm just gonna read to you this.

[20:24] This is very Adam Warlock-y dialogue.

[20:29] He's monologuing right here and says,

[20:30] was it not also revealed to me

[20:32] that he whom I thought an ally was in truth a betrayer,

[20:34] a herald of anti-life, ultimate death?

[20:37] Did not these same fates tell me in my sleep

[20:39] how I was the chosen champion of life,

[20:41] the evil titan's natural foe?

[20:42] For I am the savior, the godslayer, the demon,

[20:45] the avenging hand of light, Adam Warlock.

[20:48] Obviously you can tell why he's my second favorite

[20:49] Marvel character, because he's amazing.

[20:51] Yeah, yeah.

[20:51] He's great.

[20:53] Talk about a senior quote right there, huh?

[20:55] Yeah, oh, if only I had read this when I was in high school.

[20:57] Yeah, my yearbook could say, I am the savior,

[20:59] the godslayer, the demon, the avenging hand of light.

[21:02] Now, something to keep in mind here.

[21:03] I'm a huge fan of Jim Starlin.

[21:04] Jim Starlin's this, for guys, people who don't know him,

[21:06] he's a writer-artist.

[21:07] He's been involved in comics for 50 years at this point.

[21:11] And he has a taste for the cosmic

[21:16] and likes to do things in outer space.

[21:17] I believe that he was not averse to,

[21:20] if he had a story idea, just taking drugs

[21:22] and writing down what he saw

[21:24] and building that into the story.

[21:27] I'm a big fan of his work,

[21:29] and I especially love his Marvel work.

[21:30] I'll read pretty much anything he does.

[21:32] And he does these big cosmic metaphysical stories

[21:35] where these characters are struggling

[21:36] towards some sort of personal enlightenment,

[21:39] but keep getting thrown around by the universe.

[21:40] It's very 60s, 70s stuff.

[21:42] And Jim Starlin's biggest claim to fame

[21:43] is that he created Thanos,

[21:45] and I think is still the best writer on that character.

[21:47] And he's the reason that Thanos is more than just a villain

[21:50] who loves death and wants to kill people,

[21:53] and is more of kind of like an amoral,

[21:55] three-dimensional character.

[21:56] And you guys are familiar with Thanos

[21:57] from those movies, right?

[21:58] Oh, yeah, he's the big purple dude.

[22:00] Yeah, he's got little ridges in his face.

[22:02] He's got ridges in his chin, very much so,

[22:05] and he's a purple dude.

[22:08] So if people are wondering, just go to your video store,

[22:11] look in the purple dude category,

[22:13] get Avengers, not the first one.

[22:15] I mean, he shows up at the very end of it.

[22:17] Watch out for that Grimace movie they made.

[22:19] Go to the asylum pictures section of your video store

[22:24] and pick up Ridgeface Purple Dude

[22:27] if you haven't seen Avengers.

[22:29] Yeah, when the Revengers fight Tangos.

[22:33] So anyway, Jim Starlin,

[22:36] he had just done a run on Captain Marvel,

[22:39] where he turned that guy from kind of a straightforward

[22:42] alien soldier who became a superhero,

[22:44] and turned him into a cosmic Jesus figure himself

[22:46] who has what's called cosmic consciousness,

[22:48] and has to battle Thanos and stuff

[22:51] for the soul of the universe.

[22:52] And he had problems with Marvel in that book.

[22:55] He left for a while.

[22:56] He comes back and they say, you wanna do a book?

[22:57] And he goes, yeah, I wanna do Adam Warlock.

[23:00] And you know what?

[23:01] He's already a cosmic Jesus figure.

[23:03] I've done that.

[23:04] I'm gonna take him a step further.

[23:05] I'm gonna make him kind of a paranoid schizophrenic

[23:08] who can't really trust reality.

[23:09] And so Adam Warlock becomes the most

[23:14] 1970s science fiction character in the Marvel universe

[23:17] who is not a Jack Kirby character,

[23:18] because Jack Kirby does a lot of 1970s science fiction stuff.

[23:21] But Adam Warlock is more like a real,

[23:24] like a person who read the book Steppenwolf,

[23:27] and then went out into outer space,

[23:28] and was like, I'm also gonna have a quest

[23:30] of self-discovery, and things like that.

[23:32] Read like Siddhartha, and then decided

[23:34] to go out into space.

[23:39] And over decades, Jim Starlin develops this conception

[23:42] of Adam Warlock and Thanos as these two characters

[23:44] who kind of stand outside the normal flow

[23:47] of the universe's destiny, and aren't bound

[23:49] by the same rules of life and death,

[23:52] these people who are more on their own independent quests.

[23:54] Thanos is for power and love of death,

[23:56] and Warlock is just to find a place

[23:58] where he can just sit down for a goddamn minute

[24:01] and not be bothered.

[24:02] Like, he just wants a place he can lie around

[24:04] and not talk to anybody.

[24:05] And they're just going after that for years.

[24:08] Doesn't that sound like a dream, right?

[24:10] Like, I mean, it's when Captain America's like-

[24:12] But power is pretty great.

[24:14] Well, that's true, but when Captain America's fighting

[24:16] for freedom, and Spider-Man's all like,

[24:18] well, with great power must come great responsibility.

[24:21] It's easier for me to relate to a character who's like,

[24:23] can I have a moment, please?

[24:25] Like, can I just have some damn quiet for a moment?

[24:31] And it's during this time, he goes on a bunch

[24:33] of like real 1970s sci-fi paperback adventures.

[24:37] He picks up his two most enduring supporting cast characters.

[24:40] Let's go to the next picture.

[24:42] That's Gamora on the left, and you may know her

[24:46] from the Guardians of the Galaxy movies.

[24:48] Before she appeared in those,

[24:49] she was the much less clad character of Gamora,

[24:54] the deadliest woman in the universe.

[24:55] Here she's dressed more like one of Jabba's dancers.

[24:59] Yes, yeah, she's kind of like if Elvira

[25:01] was an intergalactic assassin, you know?

[25:05] And his other sidekick, Pip the Troll, who Dan,

[25:08] he's in the foreground of this cover right here.

[25:10] Oh, he's in the foreground.

[25:11] Yeah, can you describe that character to me, Pip the Troll?

[25:14] Sure, let's imagine if like a troll was hanging out

[25:19] at the Playboy Mansion, and he had, you know,

[25:23] sort of like was relaxing in the bushes.

[25:27] He's breathing a little bit of fire, but in a way-

[25:30] But that's where he'd smoke.

[25:31] He's smoking a cigar to each other.

[25:32] Yeah, no, okay, okay, yeah, it's unclear,

[25:36] but it does look like, yeah.

[25:37] He's still pretty built, like he's-

[25:40] Well, the thing about Pip is he's got

[25:42] a lot of upper body strength,

[25:43] so he's got a big beer belly.

[25:44] Yeah, he's got a belly.

[25:45] And he's got like an old sort of, I don't know,

[25:49] like he's drinking out of like a-

[25:52] A wineskin?

[25:52] A wineskin, like he's in the Bacchus section of Fantasia.

[25:58] Yeah, or of, yeah, he's at the Roman world section

[26:02] of Delos, where Westworld is.

[26:04] Oh, and he doesn't have any clothes on,

[26:06] except for he's got some, you know,

[26:08] like leaves around his junk.

[26:11] Yeah, and you'll notice that,

[26:12] that's a very good description, Dan, thank you.

[26:13] And on the cover, you'll notice that the title it has here

[26:16] is A Trollish Tale of Triumph and Tragedy,

[26:18] and he's laying across a sexy lady,

[26:21] and a guy in the back is about to stab him.

[26:22] And the guy says, now, little man, you die.

[26:25] And Pip goes, yeah, but what a way to go.

[26:28] This is the cover of Warlock Numbers 12.

[26:30] Yeah.

[26:31] And so Pip the troll is, he's another great character.

[26:34] Yeah, he's a waste troll, he's Adam Warlock's-

[26:36] And looking at the cover, it looks like Adam Warlock

[26:39] is either rushing to kill Pip or to help him,

[26:44] you can't tell.

[26:44] It's hard to tell, they have their arguments,

[26:46] but he's rushing to save him.

[26:47] He becomes Adam Warlock's best friend,

[26:49] and what's amazing is that, so Pip the troll

[26:51] starts as basically a caricature of Jack Kirby,

[26:54] this little guy who's always talking

[26:57] and really is kind of a pugnacious guy and smokes cigars,

[27:00] and turns into maybe the sleaziest guy

[27:03] in the Marvel universe, you know,

[27:05] by the time Starlin is done with him.

[27:06] He's always drinking, he's always looking for parties,

[27:09] but you know what, he's ready, and he never wears clothes.

[27:11] He's just wearing his underpants almost all the time.

[27:14] But you know, he's Adam Warlock's buddy.

[27:16] He sticks with him a lot of the time.

[27:19] Yeah, he's great.

[27:19] And so as you'll notice from that wineskin stuff,

[27:21] it's like Jim Starlin decided to bring

[27:24] a fantasy character into the series.

[27:26] Yeah.

[27:27] He's a space troll, but he's very much like a fantasy troll.

[27:29] Okay, guys, let's talk about the two best things

[27:33] about this version of Adam Warlock.

[27:35] Okay, the best thing is he is literally at war with himself.

[27:39] He learns that the Soul Gem on his head,

[27:41] it's not just a thing that sits there and gives him power.

[27:44] The Soul Gem likes to capture the souls of other people,

[27:47] like it eats them.

[27:48] At one point, the Soul Gem tries to eat Warlock's soul,

[27:50] and Warlock is like, you can do it,

[27:53] but first I'm gonna commit suicide,

[27:54] and then you'll be stuck on a dead body.

[27:56] And the Soul Gem goes, no, no, no,

[27:57] I don't want that to happen.

[27:58] I need you to walk around and take me places.

[28:00] So that's how he defeats the Soul Gem.

[28:03] And we also learned the Soul Gem

[28:04] is one of the six gems of power.

[28:06] So Jim Starlin is basically laying the groundwork

[28:09] for the MCU in the 1970s without realizing it,

[28:12] and as a result, he would win a very big lawsuit settlement

[28:15] with Marvel many years later.

[28:17] Yay!

[28:17] For the creation of Thanos, yeah.

[28:19] So Jim Starlin is one of the rare real victories

[28:23] in comic books, where apparently the story I heard

[28:25] was that he sued Marvel over Thanos,

[28:28] and they said, you made this as work for hire.

[28:30] And he goes, mm, here's my high school notebooks

[28:33] where I first drew Thanos, which proves that I created him

[28:36] before I started working with you.

[28:37] And they were like, uh, we'll settle you with you, sir.

[28:39] Wow.

[28:40] And the details of the settlement have never been stated

[28:43] as far as I know, but apparently he was very happy

[28:45] with them.

[28:46] So I'm happy about that.

[28:47] That's great.

[28:47] I love it when real people make money

[28:48] instead of corporations.

[28:49] That's fantastic.

[28:51] Okay, he's at war with the Soul Gem,

[28:52] but he's also at war with himself

[28:54] because his greatest nemesis, the Magus,

[28:56] who I mentioned earlier, is an evil version of himself

[28:59] from the future.

[29:00] Let's go to picture number seven.

[29:01] Oh, what?

[29:02] Dan, what are the main differences

[29:03] between Adam Warlock and the Magus

[29:05] that you recognize in this picture?

[29:07] I can't give you two.

[29:07] Uh, I mean, color is a big one.

[29:14] Yeah, he's like gray, right?

[29:15] Still very stylish.

[29:16] Yeah, he's sort of a lavender

[29:19] to Adam Warlock's warm tones.

[29:21] And his hairstyle is sort of like a white afro

[29:28] instead of a mane of blonde hair.

[29:33] Yeah, that's the most amazing thing about the Magus

[29:33] is that he has either a ridiculous perm

[29:36] or this big afro.

[29:37] And eventually, in the 90s,

[29:39] he changes to more of a tied-off man bun type look.

[29:43] But as much as I love these stories in the 70s,

[29:46] it's hard to take the Magus totally seriously

[29:48] as this major villain because of his hair.

[29:51] But that just shows you how powerful he is.

[29:52] He's reached this point where no one can tell him

[29:54] that his hair looks ridiculous.

[29:56] Sure, he's just that powerful.

[29:56] He's also moved his skull down

[29:59] from like a

[30:00] clasp at his neck on his belt now.

[30:05] He still likes skulls, he just, you know, needs them somewhere else.

[30:09] Well, he doesn't wear a cape that much, that's the thing.

[30:11] As you can see, as Dan mentioned, yeah, the magus' hair is ridiculous.

[30:15] And so he's apparently, at some point in the future, he's driven mad by, I believe, the

[30:18] soul gem, and he runs what's called the Universal Church of Truth, which is kind of an evil

[30:27] mind-controlling religion.

[30:28] And the magus likes to show up in the present and taunt Adam Warlock and be like, there's

[30:32] nothing you can do about it, I'm you in the future, you're gonna turn evil, bruh, and

[30:35] you're gonna be totally bad.

[30:38] And Adam Warlock spends a lot of time being like, when is it gonna happen?

[30:41] When am I gonna turn into a bad guy?

[30:42] Can I stop it?

[30:43] I don't know what could happen at any moment, that I just turn into a villain, I don't like

[30:47] it.

[30:48] Eventually, sad to say, Warlock manages to defeat the magus by cutting off that future

[30:52] from our timeline, and magus gets trapped in the soul gem.

[30:55] But I really love the idea of a villain who is you in the future, so it's like, I know

[31:02] you're gonna win, I know I'm gonna win because I'm from the future, and I'm you.

[31:05] When you turn, it's a little bit like if my friend's parents could come from now and go

[31:10] back to the 60s and be like, I voted for Trump, dick, you're a hippie now, but I'm all about

[31:16] keeping immigrants out now, nothing you can do about it.

[31:19] It's an interesting twist, because I feel like, in my life, the villain is always me

[31:23] from yesterday or the day before.

[31:26] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[31:27] And you're cleaning up that mess, yeah, yeah.

[31:30] I understand.

[31:31] Well, anyway, it's like the old story, if you could kill Hitler as a baby, would you

[31:37] do it?

[31:38] Especially if that baby grew up to be you, and then you grew up to be Hitler at some

[31:41] point.

[31:42] Dan, do you think you'd do it?

[31:43] Okay, wait.

[31:44] I mean, if I was Hitler...

[31:47] It's not a hard question, Dan.

[31:50] But if I was an adult Hitler, I wouldn't kill myself as a baby, no.

[31:55] No, no.

[31:56] But if you weren't Hitler yet, like if you were halfway there, like you're Haffler.

[31:59] Oh, yeah, sure, why not?

[32:02] Okay.

[32:03] Let's do it, guys.

[32:04] Dan very casually killing himself as a baby to forestall greater tragedy.

[32:08] I understand.

[32:09] Okay, that's great.

[32:10] Yeah, the needs of the many, et cetera.

[32:11] Anyway, let's not talk about this anymore.

[32:14] Okay.

[32:15] So Jim Starlin...

[32:16] Okay, because you're changing your mind.

[32:17] I get it.

[32:18] Okay, so Jim Starlin's warlock run.

[32:20] One of the things I like about it, it feels really personal.

[32:22] There's a story that I kind of can't believe got published called 1,000 Clowns, where Jim

[32:26] Starlin has Adam Warlock imprisoned on a planet run by a caricature of Stan Lee and the other

[32:31] Marvel editors.

[32:33] And on the planet, they're building a mountain of garbage that has diamonds scattered within

[32:37] it.

[32:38] But the mountain is so big that you can't find the diamonds.

[32:40] And so he wrote and drew an issue of Marvel Comics that's literally about how crappy it

[32:44] is to be at Marvel Comics and work for them, which you got to admire somebody who can do

[32:49] it.

[32:50] Anyway, eventually, Adam Warlock, he comes into conflict with Thanos, and the only way

[32:53] to stop him is to sacrifice himself.

[32:55] That's what Adam Warlock does.

[32:56] He's always sacrificing himself.

[32:58] He gets sucked into the soul gem, and he loves it.

[33:01] But that's not all for Adam Warlock.

[33:02] And we'll have more-lock of Warlock after a quick word from our sponsor, Daniel.

[33:10] Our sponsor's not Daniel.

[33:11] Dan has the...

[33:12] Spancer?

[33:13] Our sponsor's not Dan...

[33:14] Not Donner.

[33:15] Spancer for hire.

[33:17] Our sponsor this week is Squarespace.

[33:21] Squarespace, you know them.

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[34:21] Now, normally I would have some hilarious bit about a website that I'd like to make

[34:25] with Squarespace, but we're talking Adam Warlock, and I just cannot wait to get back to him.

[34:30] So let's get back to Adam Warlock, shall we?

[34:32] Thank you.

[34:33] Hi, it's me, Dave Hill from before.

[34:38] I'm here to tell you about my brand new show on Maximum Fun, The Dave Hill Good Time Hour,

[34:43] which combines my old Maximum Fun show, Dave Hill's Podcasting Incident, with my old radio

[34:47] show, The Goddamn Dave Hill Show, into one new futuristic program from the future.

[34:52] If you like delightful conversation with incredible guests, technical difficulties, and actual

[34:57] phone calls from real life listeners, you've just hit a street called easy.

[35:01] I'm also joined by my incredible co-host, the boy criminal, Chris Gersbeck.

[35:06] Say hi, Chris.

[35:07] Hey, Dave.

[35:08] That's enough, Chris.

[35:09] And New Jersey chicken rancher, Des.

[35:11] Say hi, Des.

[35:12] Hey, Dave.

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[35:14] Brand new episodes every Friday on Maximum Fun.

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[35:19] It's 90 minutes.

[35:20] Take that, stupid rules.

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[35:26] Hi, everybody.

[35:27] My name is Justin McElroy.

[35:28] I'm Sydney McElroy.

[35:29] We're both doctors, and-

[35:30] Nope, just me.

[35:31] Okay, well, Sydney's a doctor, and I'm a medical enthusiast, and we create Sawbones, a marital

[35:36] tour of misguided medicine.

[35:38] Every week, I dig through the annals of medical history to bring you the wildest, grossest,

[35:44] sometimes dumbest tales of ways we've tried to treat people throughout history.

[35:48] Lately, we do a lot of modern fake medicine, because everything's a disaster.

[35:52] But it's slightly less of a disaster every Friday, right here on MaximumFun.org, as we

[35:57] bring you Sawbones, a marital tour of misguided medicine.

[35:59] And remember-

[36:00] Don't drill a hole in your head.

[36:08] Let's move to the next picture, shall we?

[36:10] This is an image from the Infinity Gauntlet comic, where Silver Surfer's describing a

[36:15] time when he showed up in the Soul Gem, and Adam Warlock is just hanging out.

[36:19] Dan, can you describe- that's Adam Warlock in the second panel there.

[36:22] What's he look like now?

[36:24] Now he looks kind of like a warrior monk, sort of.

[36:30] What's he doing with his skull decorations?

[36:32] His skull is now atop a staff, so he's got, you know, he's got kind of a wizard look,

[36:40] because he's got a robe and a staff.

[36:43] Yeah.

[36:44] So, for a long time, Adam Warlock is hanging out in Soul World with Pip and Gamora and

[36:50] this four-armed, enormous-headed dude that-

[36:52] Yeah!

[36:53] I can't believe we haven't talked about this guy.

[36:56] So this guy shows up in an early issue of Starlin's run of Adam Warlock, and his soul

[37:01] gets sucked into the Soul Gem.

[37:02] That's how Adam Warlock defeats him.

[37:04] And every time they go to the Soul World, that guy is there.

[37:08] Every single time you see the Soul World, he's there.

[37:10] And when I was a kid, I didn't know that story.

[37:12] It wasn't reprinted for a long time.

[37:14] And I'd always be like, who is this dude?

[37:16] Like, what's his story?

[37:17] His whole body, his head, he's got an enormous face, his four arms, and he always has a smile

[37:22] on his face.

[37:23] Like, he's just like, looks like the friendliest monster in the world.

[37:27] And his giant head looks kind of like a turtle shell.

[37:31] Yeah, exactly.

[37:32] With, like, big bug eyes.

[37:33] Like, he's- this character- just, if you want to- just Google Soul World four-armed guy,

[37:38] and maybe it'll come up.

[37:39] I don't know.

[37:40] But he- it boggled my mind for years.

[37:42] Who is this guy?

[37:43] He's always there.

[37:44] Why he- like, in the Infinity War series, he shows up again for a moment with no explanation

[37:49] of who he was, and it's like, ugh, there's a story there.

[37:52] And there was.

[37:53] Anyway, long story short, he just wants to stay in the Soul Gem.

[37:58] And he gets to for a long time.

[38:00] Because nobody was that interested in Adam Warlock except for Jim Starlin.

[38:03] The entire 1980s go by with no Adam Warlock in them.

[38:07] It's very sad.

[38:08] It's not until the 1990s that he comes back.

[38:10] There's a- there's a- there's a- at this point, the last time we've seen Adam Warlock was

[38:15] in the late 70s, I believe it was, when he briefly leaves the Soul Gem as a being made

[38:20] of fire to turn Thanos into stone when Thanos tries to create- to conquer the universe with

[38:26] his cosmic cube.

[38:27] And then we don't see him again until, let's go to the next one, the Infinity Gauntlet

[38:31] series.

[38:32] This is in 91, and this is a fantastic series where Thanos gets all those Infinity Gems,

[38:39] he got it in a little mini-series called Thanos Quest, and now he is just taking over the

[38:44] universe with his super powerful gauntlet that's so shiny.

[38:47] Look at how shiny it is on the cover, look at all this- all the sparkle on those gems.

[38:51] The gems are, yes, in that line.

[38:52] Yeah, there's like, Mephisto is there, and Lady Death.

[38:55] Lady Death.

[38:56] It's not Lady Death, but Death.

[38:57] Yeah.

[38:58] Mistress Death.

[38:59] Lady Death is an Evil Ernie character, yeah, who's best known for just wearing bikinis

[39:02] and garter belts all over the place, yeah.

[39:04] Yeah.

[39:05] I've never- I never read any of those books.

[39:07] I could not figure out what the stories might be, because all I knew about Evil Ernie and

[39:11] Lady Death was that Evil Ernie looked like a ripoff of Eddie from Iron Maiden covers,

[39:15] and that Lady Death was just a busty lady who wore bikinis and was-

[39:19] I will absolutely explain it all to you on another mini-series.

[39:22] Oh man, I need this Stuart mini, where it's Stuart Explains Evil Ernie.

[39:26] This is finally- Anyway, Jim Starlin, by this point, he was the writer on Silver Surfer.

[39:31] He had a really great run on that.

[39:33] A lot of it is with Ron Lim as the penciler.

[39:35] Ron Lim, of course, one of the unsung greats of Marvel Comics.

[39:39] He does not get as much attention as I think he deserves, even though everyone he draws

[39:43] kind of has a much wider mouth than they would in real life.

[39:47] Anyway, he did this- and he draws the second half of the Infinity Gauntlet mini-series.

[39:51] George Perez draws the first half.

[39:52] Anyway, Jim Starlin is writing Silver Surfer.

[39:55] He goes, I want to bring Thanos back.

[39:56] And the story is so amazing that Marvel says, this is better than just-

[40:00] a Silver Surfer storyline. This has to be the biggest crossover we've had since Secret

[40:04] Wars. And you know what? It's really great and it really works. And because Jim Starlin

[40:08] is in the driver's seat, who's the pivotal figure in it? That's right. Adam Warlock.

[40:13] There's a panel that you have right there where Adam Warlock is holding the Infinity

[40:16] Gauntlet and he says, let the conflict end because, spoiler alert, it ends with Adam

[40:20] Warlock with all the Infinity Gems. That's right. He's now the most powerful character

[40:24] in the Marvel Universe. What's he going to do with those gems? What do you think, guys?

[40:29] I think he's going to split them up because he's a good guy, not a bad guy, right?

[40:32] He is a good guy, not a bad guy. It helps that the Living Tribunal, which is the three-headed

[40:37] judge who works for the One Above All, which is the Marvel Universe's version of God, is

[40:42] like, hey, I don't trust you. You shouldn't have all those gems together. So he splits

[40:46] them up. And this is the first time in a while that Adam Warlock has his own book. He has

[40:51] a book for a little bit called The Warlock Chronicles and he has a book called Adam Warlock

[40:55] and the Infinity Watch. Let's go to the next picture, shall we? And you can see this is

[41:01] the team shot. Oh hell yeah, Moondragon. As Adam Warlock is shouting, let the stars know

[41:05] you to be the Infinity Watch. And by the stars, I assume he meant dancing with the stars type

[41:09] stars like, or maybe the stars of Modern Family. I don't know. He splits up the gems. Each

[41:13] of his friends gets a gem. So it's Adam Warlock, Pip, Gamora, and who's this? Drax the Destroyer.

[41:19] Not the movie version. The superhero version. But he's still got that kind of same goofy

[41:23] energy as the movie version though, right? He's still very dumb. That's true. At a certain

[41:28] point, there's a, and on the left there, that's Moondragon, who is Drax's daughter, but she

[41:33] doesn't know that because in a fight she gave him major brain damage and he no longer remembers.

[41:37] And Dan, can you describe, what's Drax have clasping his cape and also on his belt?

[41:44] Well, he's got two skulls. Exactly. He's got both the skull belt and the skull clasp.

[41:49] Jim Starlin likes skulls as a design element. And Gamora, she's got skulls, one on each

[41:57] shoulder there. Yeah, that's true. He loves skulls everywhere. And Moondragon is not originally a Jim

[42:01] Starlin character, but she's a real cosmic character. She fits in. Dan, look at that

[42:05] character, describe her to me and tell me what you think her backstory is. And Stuart, maybe

[42:09] you can correct him if he's wrong. Maybe he'll guess it right. Well, she's got slightly more

[42:16] clothes on than Vampirella. I mean, she has a cape, sure. Just marginally. You know, she doesn't

[42:24] have any hair. She's got big hoop earrings and a gem in her head. Well, that gem is her infinity

[42:31] gem. Yeah. Okay. So she's, what's her name? Moon something? Moondragon. Moondragon. I'm going to

[42:39] say that that she is literally some sort of cosmic dragon somehow. I mean, there is a cosmic

[42:49] dragon. I mean, not at this, but eventually she does become a dragon. That's true. Up till now,

[42:54] not. Stuart, what do you know about Moondragon's real origin? I don't even remember at all. I just

[42:58] remember that she looks awesome. Okay, well, here's it's pretty simple. She is the daughter

[43:02] of Drax the Destroyer. Drax, of course, was an American sax sax player. He was a jazz musician.

[43:08] Thanos had a spaceship that Drax's family saw while driving down the highway. So Thanos blew

[43:14] them up. That's when Cronos brought back, later brought back the dad's body and turned him into

[43:19] Drax the Destroyer, a behemoth of a man, massively powerful, whose only dream, only desire was to

[43:24] destroy Thanos. And later on, the daughter who was alive, she's taken up by the Titans. She's

[43:30] trained by the Titans in kind of space martial arts. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. She goes with some

[43:35] space monks. And for a long time in, she's bopping in and out of the Avengers comics of the 70s as

[43:40] the single most egotistical character in the Marvel universe. And she's amazing. She'll just show up

[43:44] and she'll be like, she'll go. The Avengers, there's one issue where the Avengers are like,

[43:48] I guess we have to have some tryouts. We need more members. And Moondragon shows up and goes,

[43:51] I'll be your leader. Don't worry. I'll make everybody fight so we can see who's worthwhile.

[43:56] I'm the best. Anyway, like she's, she's constantly rubbing people the wrong way.

[44:01] She learned some lessons in humility and she has the power of something called the Dragon of the

[44:05] Moon. I don't really remember all of it. But years later, she turns into a real dragon.

[44:10] In the current books, she has merged with an alternate universe version of herself and she

[44:15] is still in love. She's still in love with I think it's Captain Marvel's daughter. So she is in a

[44:20] stable relationship. So yeah, I'm remembering bits of this like a lot of my knowledge of the

[44:24] cosmic characters comes from the later Abnett, Abnett Lanning run. Yes. The Guardian's books.

[44:32] We'll get to that. We'll get to that. That's a great run. Anyway, as Dan said, Moondragon

[44:36] is essentially all you need to know is she's a bald psychic with almost no clothes on.

[44:39] And she's a super ninja. This is to me like the classic Warlock family of characters.

[44:45] The Infinity Watch is the closest we get to Adam Warlock as like a straightforward,

[44:49] straightforward superhero character, even though they don't really go out and write wrong so much

[44:52] as they sit around their headquarters, which is a castle on Monster Island where the Mole Man lives

[44:57] and wait for stories to come and force them to do things. There's a character at one point

[45:02] whose name was what's his name is like Maxim, I think, who shows up and has lost his memory

[45:08] and he's slowly getting it back. And he knows he's supposed to kill Adam Warlock for some reason.

[45:12] I don't know if we ever find out because the book ended before the mystery was done.

[45:17] There's a story where Adam Warlock is tricked into falling in love for the first time.

[45:22] And it's ridiculous. So when Adam Warlock got the gems, one of the things he did was he

[45:28] cast out the evil and good sides of himself so he could be a being of pure rationality.

[45:33] The evil side. Well, it's that magus character again. And he comes back.

[45:36] Let's go to the next slide in the Infinity War. That was the sequel, the Infinity Gauntlet,

[45:40] where the magus is like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to make evil duplicates of all

[45:44] of the Marvel heroes. And the lasting legacy of that, Dan, is a secret wars or some shit.

[45:53] Dan knows Dan knows the lasting legacy of you. Well, I'll just tell you, it's the Spider-Man

[45:57] villain doppelganger who is an evil Spider-Man who is prominently shown in the maximum carnage

[46:03] crossover, as you were going to say. Otherwise, Infinity War doesn't have that much of a legacy

[46:07] other than more Adam Warlock. And then there's Infinity Crusade a few years later, which is

[46:12] when the good side of Adam Warlock tried to take over the universe. And so because Jim Starlin

[46:17] always works in with Marvel on this massive cosmic scope, you have this strange and because

[46:22] Infinity Gauntlet was such a huge success, you have this strange kind of situation where the

[46:27] linchpin of these massive company wide crossovers is this character who does not have his own book

[46:33] and doesn't have that big a fan base, to be honest. Like Adam Warlock is very prominently

[46:38] featured on the cover of Infinity War number one and surrounding him is like Wolverine,

[46:42] Captain America, Spider-Man, because it's almost like Marvel had to be like, all your favorites

[46:45] are in here. Don't worry. You could read this Adam Warlock story. It's got other characters

[46:49] that you've heard of. Come on. To put it in perspective, I think the Incredible Hulk,

[46:53] who is probably maybe the second most recognizable Marvel hero to the average person.

[47:00] No, well, Black Knight's on the on this cover, too.

[47:02] Yeah, well, he was a member of the Avengers at the time. Yeah, that's Archangel, Gamora,

[47:05] Silver Surfer, Quicksilver, Vision when he was all white.

[47:08] Quasar, yeah.

[47:09] Yeah, Quasar. He was, you know, Quasar, Wendell Vaughn. There's Daredevil. Daredevil barely makes

[47:14] it onto the cover. Now, again, this was a fold out cover. The back continued the image and then

[47:18] I think you could fold out. Wait, which one?

[47:21] Infinity War.

[47:22] OK.

[47:23] Because then you look at Infinity Crusade and Adam Warlock is not so prominently placed,

[47:27] but you see the goddess, which is a good version of him. But you still got,

[47:30] you know, Wolverine, Spider-Man, all their faces.

[47:32] What I see when I see, look at this cover for Infinity Crusade is

[47:37] they're really half ass and some of these drawings of these faces on the front.

[47:41] Well, part of the reason for that is because the parts where it's orange or gold,

[47:46] that would have been actual foil on the cover. This is a book I bought. It was this was back

[47:51] when all the comics that were first issues had shiny foil on the cover or holograms or

[47:56] chromium or whatever. And so that would have been so Ron Lim was probably like,

[48:01] I'm not going to waste my time drawing these these faces in super detail.

[48:03] If they're just going to be so shiny, you can't even see them. Yeah.

[48:07] And that's why it also costs, as you'll see, three dollars and 50 cents for that first issue,

[48:11] which is at the time was ridiculous. That would be a Yanks. Yeah. So at the time,

[48:15] I think a regular issue cost like a dollar twenty five. So, OK, I think I was going to say

[48:20] probably the Hulk is maybe the second or third most recognizable Marvel character.

[48:23] I think Spider-Man and Iron Man are the others. The Hulk has been the central figure of,

[48:26] I think, one company wide crossover World War Hulk. Adam Warlock has been the central figure

[48:32] of at least three company wide crossovers, which is kind of silly. Yeah. Yeah. But it's also

[48:37] probably a side effect of Warlock. He's never been popular enough to have his own series for long.

[48:41] So he's available to be the central figure of these now. OK. Warlock falls off the map a little

[48:46] bit whenever Jim Starlin leaves Marvel Comics. Adam Warlock kind of disappears for a while

[48:51] because not everyone else is that interested in using him in 2004. If you scroll to the next one,

[48:56] the great writer Greg Pak and the artist Charlie Adler, they tried to reboot Adam Warlock with a

[49:00] new four issue miniseries called Warlock. They kind of ignored all his previous continuity.

[49:05] And it was almost like they're trying to pitch the movie version of him. But it just it was not

[49:09] I liked it. It's a pretty good miniseries, but it was not super popular. That version

[49:12] of Warlock never appeared again. We don't really see classic at a Warlock until the late 2000s

[49:18] when, as Stuart mentioned, we get into what I'm going to call the Abnett and Lanning

[49:23] period of cosmic Marvel Comics, although it was kicked off by Keith Geffen. That's right,

[49:28] Dan, your favorite creator of Ambush, Bug and Trencher. And so

[49:36] around 2008, the Marvel cosmic books kind of get a rebirth with a storyline called Annihilation,

[49:42] where Annihilus, the evil robo bug from the Negative Zone who wants to destroy all life,

[49:47] he attacks the positive matter universe with his army of bugs and they kill billions of people.

[49:51] It's an amazing series. It took all these characters. Yeah, these characters like Super

[49:56] Skrull and Drax and Nova and Ronan, the accuser who had not.

[50:00] been done well with over years and made them super cool.

[50:02] It's a great, it's a great series.

[50:04] It's fun to-

[50:05] That was one of my favorite, like,

[50:06] takes on Super Skrull too.

[50:08] Yes, where he's like-

[50:10] What makes the Skrull so super?

[50:12] Well, Super Skrull, so Dan, as you know,

[50:14] Skrulls are shape-changing aliens.

[50:15] You know this from the Captain Marvel movie, right?

[50:17] So-

[50:18] I'm aware of the Skrulls.

[50:19] So, Stuart, what's the deal with

[50:20] Kill Ert, the Super Skrull?

[50:23] So, you can correct me if I'm wrong,

[50:25] but Super Skrull was, what, genetically engineered

[50:28] to mimic the powers of the Fantastic Four?

[50:32] Yes, he's got all their powers.

[50:33] Because the Fantastic Four keeps whipping

[50:37] the Skrulls' asses, so they're like,

[50:38] we gotta make one of them, but only one.

[50:42] Yes.

[50:42] And so, he's like a hero to the Skrulls,

[50:44] but he's always losing.

[50:46] And so, by this point, he is a laughingstock

[50:48] of the Skrulls, and they're like,

[50:49] the Super Skrull, you get your butt handed to you

[50:51] every time, so he's really gotta prove himself.

[50:54] And Millswell becomes the top cosmic cop

[50:57] in the universe, Drax, who, for years,

[51:00] had been a comedy figure by this point.

[51:01] There's a Silver Surfer scene that my children

[51:03] love me to read to them, where Drax keeps

[51:06] bothering Silver Surfer and saying,

[51:07] where's Thanos, where's Thanos, where's Thanos?

[51:09] And Silver Surfer flies through a sun,

[51:11] and Drax still won't let go of his board,

[51:14] and so he goes to the Fantastic Four's headquarters

[51:16] and sits Drax down in front of a TV,

[51:18] and it's a page of them watching sitcoms,

[51:20] and the Silver Surfer just leaves

[51:22] two panels before the end,

[51:24] and Drax is like, huh?

[51:25] Like, Surfer?

[51:26] And then the next panel, the next page

[51:28] is a full-page panel of the Silver Surfer

[51:30] flying through space, and he's got

[51:31] the biggest grin on his face

[51:32] that he got rid of this guy.

[51:35] So, Drax was kind of a comedy figure,

[51:37] but he gets reborn in this Keith Geffen miniseries

[51:40] that ties into Annihilation as the Drax

[51:42] we know from the movies, except smarter,

[51:44] where the Drax that Dave Bautista's playing,

[51:47] who's like a big buff guy who uses knives

[51:49] to chop at things, and is an ultimate fighter

[51:51] who never wears a shirt, like,

[51:53] that's the Drax from this series.

[51:54] Anyway, it's a really great series,

[51:56] and they reinvented these characters

[51:58] in a way that was also very respectful

[52:00] to where they came from.

[52:02] Star-Lord is reintroduced and is a much stronger character

[52:06] than he eventually becomes when they just make him

[52:08] kind of Chris Pratt in the comics.

[52:10] But anyway, it spins off into Dan Abnett

[52:14] and Andy Lanning's Guardians of the Galaxy series.

[52:16] Stuart, I know you're a fan of Abnett and Lanning

[52:17] from their Warhammer work, right?

[52:19] Well, mainly Dan Abnett's Warhammer books,

[52:22] yeah, they're great, he's awesome.

[52:23] Actually, I don't know, does Andy Lanning

[52:24] write any of them, or just Dan Abnett?

[52:26] Yeah, it's just Dan Abnett

[52:27] and the only Games Workshop, so.

[52:29] It's a great Guardians of the Galaxy run,

[52:31] it sets the groundwork for the movies.

[52:33] Like, the ones where you see,

[52:34] the characters you see in the movies,

[52:35] they're the characters from that series.

[52:37] Yeah, yeah.

[52:38] And Warlock eventually comes back to life,

[52:39] joins the group, they fight the Universal Church of Truth

[52:42] a bunch more times.

[52:42] And he's kind of like, he's like just part of the team,

[52:45] which was kind of fun.

[52:47] Like, he's just this weird dude who's part of the team.

[52:50] Yeah, it was fun to have him there,

[52:53] but at the same time, I kind of missed that

[52:54] he was no longer kind of this weird loner

[52:57] seeking personal fulfillment.

[52:58] He'd become more of a, like,

[52:59] just Silver Surfer-type noble weirdo, you know?

[53:02] So there is a good bit where he becomes Adam Magus

[53:05] and he kills the whole team.

[53:07] Yes.

[53:07] Which I like that part.

[53:08] Yeah, that was good.

[53:09] And the art in those issues is phenomenal.

[53:11] It's gorgeous.

[53:11] I can never remember the artist's name,

[53:12] but he does mostly DC work now, I think,

[53:14] but it's a series well worth checking out.

[53:18] Anyway, around this time.

[53:21] Here, there's an image of Adam Warlock here.

[53:23] He just kind of looks like a regular superhero, right?

[53:25] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[53:26] Just like a normal guy.

[53:27] He just looks like a normal superhero.

[53:28] Just like a totally normal guy, wearing a normal guy.

[53:31] Spandex and a cape.

[53:32] Instead of a cape, he has a long, flowing

[53:34] kind of crotch front cape.

[53:36] It's like he's wearing a half apron.

[53:39] Like, after he saves the world,

[53:41] he's gonna go do his shift at Chili's.

[53:44] So here's where things get interesting again,

[53:47] because guess who's back on the Adam Warlock beat

[53:50] as of the late 2000s?

[53:52] Dan Starlin.

[53:53] Wait, Jim Starlin?

[53:54] Jim Starlin, that's right.

[53:55] Jim Starlin comes back,

[53:56] and he doesn't do an Adam Warlock series.

[53:58] No, go to the next one.

[54:00] He does a Thanos versus Hulk miniseries,

[54:03] which has a surprisingly small amount of Hulk in it.

[54:05] It's mostly Thanos versus Annihilus,

[54:08] and that rolls into this series of original graphic novels

[54:11] that came out as hardcover books.

[54:13] The Thanos, the Infinity Revelation.

[54:15] Thanos, the Infinity Relativity.

[54:17] Thanos, the Infinity Finale.

[54:18] And then the final, the Infinity Entity,

[54:21] which has Adam Warlock on the cover there.

[54:23] As you can see from the picture here,

[54:24] Adam Warlock is dressed in more of like a karate outfit

[54:26] this point, you know, with big shoulders and everything.

[54:29] You know, with these, I mean,

[54:31] they're still, you know, comic drawings,

[54:33] but with these covers and those, like, subtitles,

[54:38] they really look like, you know,

[54:40] paperbacks from, like, the late 60s or 70s.

[54:43] Oh, they do.

[54:44] And what I love is, so here,

[54:45] if I can describe the covers.

[54:46] The cover of Thanos, the Infinity Revelation

[54:48] is just a big closeup of Thanos's head over a star field.

[54:50] And he's like, oh.

[54:52] Thanos, the Infinity Relativity,

[54:53] it's Thanos, Adam Warlock,

[54:54] and also the face of Annihilus,

[54:56] who by this point has given himself

[54:57] an enormous monster body.

[54:59] Thanos, the Infinity Finale,

[55:00] it's Thanos's face again,

[55:02] but he's had the shit beaten out of him.

[55:03] He has literally a bloody nose

[55:04] and there's blood pouring down his chin.

[55:06] And it's like, I just always thought

[55:08] it was a strange choice for a cover

[55:09] to have the main character just, like, beaten all to crap.

[55:12] Anyway, this is where Jim Starlin kind of reasserts

[55:16] that Thanos and Adam Warlock,

[55:18] for all the time they spend in the Marvel Universe,

[55:20] exist outside of it and go on their own adventures,

[55:23] that Thanos does things for his own reasons

[55:25] and Adam Warlock does things for his own reasons.

[55:27] And they eventually, the whole thing ends with Adam Warlock

[55:30] kind of single-handedly recreating all of reality

[55:33] and then becoming God's second-in-command

[55:35] as a new version of the Living Tribunal,

[55:38] the cosmic figure who is the judge over all the universes.

[55:41] And it almost feels like the apotheosis

[55:44] of what Jim Starlin is doing to these characters,

[55:46] where by this point, Adam Warlock has figured

[55:48] that the only way he can find peace

[55:50] is literally by being the most powerful being in the galaxy

[55:54] who only shows up when he can judge other people

[55:57] and tell them what to do.

[55:58] And Thanos, by the end of it, is like,

[56:00] oh boy, that was some adventure.

[56:02] You know?

[56:03] But it's hard to know whether these books

[56:05] are in continuity or not.

[56:07] I think technically they might happen

[56:08] in a different alternate universe, but you never know.

[56:11] When Jim Starlin is handling them,

[56:13] their adventures are somehow both

[56:14] on the margins of the Marvel universe

[56:16] and also the single most important thing

[56:18] happening in the Marvel universe, you know?

[56:22] Ever since then, Adam Warlock has shown up

[56:23] in comics every now and then.

[56:25] There was this recent storyline

[56:26] with him and the Guardians of the Galaxy

[56:28] that I think was called Infinity War.

[56:29] I could not follow it.

[56:30] It's just a lot of running around

[56:31] for Infinity Gems in the desert,

[56:33] and I didn't really understand what was going on.

[56:35] To be honest, I gotta admit something, guys.

[56:38] Gesundheit, still.

[56:40] When other writers handle the character,

[56:42] I find that it's hard for me to care as much,

[56:44] and it's weird to me that Adam Warlock,

[56:46] who had two previous creative teams

[56:48] working on him before Jim Starlin took him on,

[56:50] to me, that's Jim Starlin's baby,

[56:52] and even though he didn't create him,

[56:53] it feels like that's the character.

[56:55] He put his stamp on it so indelibly

[56:57] that it's his character,

[56:58] and I'll read any Jim Starlin Warlock comic.

[57:00] Again, I told you, there's a whole storyline

[57:02] in Infinity Watch where Adam Warlock

[57:04] gets a magic spell put on him

[57:05] that makes him fall in love,

[57:07] and it's goofy as all get out.

[57:10] But it's just, he's a really interesting character to me,

[57:12] and I wanna hear if you guys have any thoughts

[57:14] about what you've heard before I get into

[57:15] why I think I like Adam Warlock so much.

[57:18] What do you guys think?

[57:20] Why do we think you like him?

[57:22] No, no, but like, okay, so this is Hit You.

[57:25] What are your feelings about this character

[57:27] who has this complicated history

[57:30] and is not an easily defined hero character?

[57:35] I mean, I've always enjoyed a character

[57:40] who's a hero who would rather not,

[57:41] like not just the usual Joseph Campbell

[57:47] deny the call sort of rather not,

[57:49] but genuinely, they're heroes,

[57:54] but they like to expend as little effort as possible,

[57:58] whether it be, I know that because he's a horrible human

[58:02] and they made a bunch of bad sequels,

[58:05] it kinda ruined the original Pirates of the Caribbean,

[58:07] but the original movie, when you see Jack Sparrow,

[58:11] it's so fun to see a character that's like,

[58:15] I don't know, I'm like sort of like just like

[58:18] shambling around while doing his stuff,

[58:21] or like even on television, like 70s mystery shows,

[58:27] like the Rockford Files, where it's like,

[58:30] do I have to get into a fist fight?

[58:31] I don't want to, that's not my preferred way of doing it.

[58:35] So that sounds appealing.

[58:37] Yeah, like without trying, adventure finds them,

[58:40] that's what I think.

[58:41] Yes, yeah.

[58:41] Yeah, so I was, I mean, I think my first exposure,

[58:46] like a lot of folks was to Adam Warlock

[58:48] was during the Infinity Gauntlet series.

[58:51] That was certainly mine also, yeah.

[58:52] And I never really connected much with the character

[58:56] because a lot of it was just him like standing around.

[59:01] There's a lot of scenes in that

[59:02] where he is standing around and Silver Surfer goes,

[59:04] aren't you going to step in now?

[59:05] And he goes, the pieces are in place.

[59:07] Now we must play the game and that kind of stuff,

[59:10] which, I mean, as a kid, I loved that stuff.

[59:12] I loved any character who seemed like they had any idea

[59:14] what was going on, you know.

[59:15] And my, the funny thing is my little brother

[59:19] loved Adam Warlock, that Adam Warlock

[59:21] was his favorite character.

[59:23] But also, and that brother also is a big fan

[59:26] of the Eternal Champion books.

[59:28] So I think there's a specific,

[59:30] he must just be operating on that like 70s,

[59:33] like Prague wavelength that I'm not quite on.

[59:38] It's possible.

[59:40] There's a, there's something very,

[59:41] there is something very 70s about Adam Warlock, even now.

[59:44] It's partly, they've tried to update his hair

[59:46] and it doesn't quite do it.

[59:47] But I think it is, there's a certain kind of

[59:50] heroic narcissism about him.

[59:52] I'm not, I wouldn't say hedonism,

[59:53] because he's very ascetic, but like a heroic narcissism

[59:56] where it's like, no, there is something noble about me.

[59:59] Finally.

[1:00:00] the inner truth about myself and devoting myself to that and there's

[1:00:04] something his outfits are always kind of very glam the the comic book author Tom

[1:00:09] Manning is a friend of mine he was telling me today he had a theory or

[1:00:14] heard somewhere that Ziggy Stardust was a big influence on Jim Starlin's Adam

[1:00:18] Warlock I don't know about that I haven't seen that listed anywhere but

[1:00:21] the same time he told me that Siam the evil demon from the New Mutants comics

[1:00:26] was an homage to Dave Simm of the Cerebus books and that turns out to be

[1:00:29] true so when Tom tells me something's wild comic and that's why Siam smokes a

[1:00:34] cigar and wears a little vest just like Cerebus and I was like but that can't be

[1:00:39] a tribute he's the bad guy why would that be a tribute and he's and but it

[1:00:43] turns out it's true anyway so there's a there's this definite like 70s selfish

[1:00:48] stew in there and not selfish stew like selfish Stewart Stewart is selfless and

[1:00:53] he'd do anything to help you really is even give you the shirt off his back in

[1:00:56] fact you do you don't have to take your shirt off put it back on I know you I

[1:00:58] know you're proud but are you sure I mean I've been I figured I should show

[1:01:02] this off Stewart did so much you know surrounding and during my wedding you

[1:01:08] know stews a real prince of a of a gent of a man yeah yeah but nobody else did

[1:01:17] anything so yeah the bare minimums you put a lot of work into your speech

[1:01:22] I did put a lot of work into my speech and I it was the most the biggest work

[1:01:28] I put in was restraining myself from roasting Dan yeah it was a sweet roasting

[1:01:39] yeah sweet roast honey roast I think it's Adam Warlock is someone where he's

[1:01:45] real what makes him interesting to me is his personality which is kind of a hard

[1:01:49] thing to to describe partly because he's like kind of a cold character he's

[1:01:54] a cold self-involved character but he's got but he is he runs very hot like his

[1:02:00] passion is very hot but in a but towards cold ends which is to get away from

[1:02:04] everybody else he's basically noble and good but yeah he puts off helping anybody

[1:02:08] until the last possible moment he's always really irritable about it like

[1:02:11] he's never I feel like also like a like a mega intellectual type where yes yes

[1:02:16] you know he's always pondering important things yeah exactly he's very

[1:02:21] humorless he doesn't have a sense of humor he doesn't have fun and that's why

[1:02:24] it's fun to see him with Pip the troll who is the original party troll and he's

[1:02:29] disrespectful and condescending to the characters because he legitimately thinks

[1:02:32] he's above them and he is but he always comes through and saves the universe in

[1:02:36] the end and I was thinking about this today and it's almost like in a weird

[1:02:39] way Jack Kirby is what Jack Kirby intended to be the worst case scenario

[1:02:44] of a libertarian someone who only who takes who basically is like you don't

[1:02:50] live up to my standards for the world so I feel free to destroy you because I'm

[1:02:53] stronger than you in a weird way Jim Starlin turned that into kind of the

[1:02:57] best case scenario of a libertarian someone who's like powerful and

[1:03:00] self-obsessed but leaves other people alone and will reluctantly help out when

[1:03:05] he's really needed like recognizes some humanity and other people and maybe

[1:03:10] there's something appealing to me in that like that I I am very much not a

[1:03:14] libertarian I like because I am a weak little man and I can't see very well so

[1:03:19] I need the help of others and so I'm willing to help them like we're all in

[1:03:22] this together but especially me because without my glasses I'm just Burgess

[1:03:26] Meredith wandering around in a post-apocalyptic wasteland and I can't

[1:03:28] read my beloved books but he's kind of maybe I'm just a big dumb beautiful

[1:03:34] idiot and pointing me in directions yeah and Dan you're just a poor boy you don't

[1:03:41] need no sympathy because it's easy come easy go a little high a little low

[1:03:44] anywhere the wind blows doesn't really matter to you and and I just killed a

[1:03:48] man and so maybe there's something in there that's like a fantasy figure to me

[1:03:57] of like if you were really powerful enough that you could just kind of

[1:04:00] wander around like ignoring other people as much as possible and when you fell

[1:04:05] into an adventure you could be like okay except at the same time he's a he's like

[1:04:10] a rational headed character who is very 70s Marvel and 70s Marvel is every

[1:04:15] character twisted in agony and bearing their teeth and grunting about like why

[1:04:22] must the universe be so and stuff like that so I guess what I'm saying is he's

[1:04:27] a weird character he's very complicated and I can't wait to see how they

[1:04:30] simplify him to the point of adorability in Guardians of the Galaxy yeah seems

[1:04:35] like a real you know I don't know I don't know how this could be film I

[1:04:42] don't know how the thing is so at the end of Guardians of Galaxy volume 2 at

[1:04:46] the tag they're like I'm gonna make a person I'm gonna name him Adam yeah and

[1:04:50] so I don't know if it's gonna be that he is a newly created being who's like oh

[1:04:54] what's this oh that's a that's a chicken nugget buddy and you eat them mmm good

[1:04:59] like I don't know if they're gonna do that what's this what's this there's

[1:05:02] white yes in the air yeah yeah there's colors everywhere exactly can't believe

[1:05:06] my eyes I must be I must be dreaming wake up Jack it isn't fair but you'll

[1:05:09] say wake up Adam Warlock it isn't fair anyway what's this there's something

[1:05:13] very wrong what's this there's people singing song little creatures well

[1:05:18] everybody seems so happy it's a bit but no it's just the lyrics to a song yeah

[1:05:25] just this song lyric bits so I wonder if I don't know how developed the

[1:05:29] characters gonna be if he's gonna be a newly birthed rocky horror monster or if

[1:05:33] he's gonna be the Adam Warlock we know and love who would be like we need to

[1:05:36] save the universe and anymore I'll be like oh huh do we okay you know I think

[1:05:44] do you think he's gonna be the baddie I hope he's not the baddie I hope I but

[1:05:49] who knows maybe the baddies gonna be the mages I don't know we'll see yeah maybe

[1:05:52] that's a big spoiler that we'll all find out a month ahead of time and it'll be

[1:05:57] like oh well that seems kind of obvious in retrospect the same way that uh they

[1:06:01] may have spoiled they may have revealed who the villain is in the doctor strange

[1:06:04] new movie I think I was telling Stewart this but like there's no I was trying to

[1:06:08] tell me about this at Dan's wedding how they they may have revealed the yeah we

[1:06:11] were talking about it but doctor strange only has like four villains and they

[1:06:15] used two of them in the first movie so it's gonna be one of these other two

[1:06:19] pop you know and this is a subject for another time but I wonder if it really

[1:06:23] is a spoiler to find out who the characters are going to be in a movie

[1:06:28] yeah no maybe so guys that's Adam Warlock do you have any final thoughts I

[1:06:34] feel like I've gone on for a very long time talking about this character the

[1:06:36] audience is long gone no this is interesting I mean a careful what you

[1:06:40] wish for a situation yeah some of the vocal listener folks that tweeted at

[1:06:45] Elliot being like yeah I wanted to hear that Adam Warlock I was surprised how

[1:06:49] many people who were like I was so bummed when you didn't tell me about

[1:06:52] Adam Warlock it's like I don't and also because Adam Warlock is one of those

[1:06:56] characters where there's not that many Adam Warlock comics you could in probably

[1:06:59] in a week you could probably catch up on his whole history it's the same way that

[1:07:02] I've always dreamed of writing something about Chester a Arthur so I was like I'm

[1:07:05] gonna read every book about Chester a Arthur and I think there's five of them

[1:07:08] so it was not that difficult did you achieve that dream so I can't find any

[1:07:14] other one oh no the dream of writing something but yeah that's it that's a

[1:07:18] long-term project that I'm still working on well yeah I'll be interested

[1:07:22] to hear the reaction to this I mean I was interested don't get me wrong I was

[1:07:28] interested but uh I don't know I don't know whether the deep dive is gonna be

[1:07:34] beloved or beloved or Bolivar watches well guys so that's the thing

[1:07:48] about minis not the bar minis which is Stewart's bar and it's a great bar I was

[1:07:52] just there on wedding reception that's the thing about these mini episodes is

[1:07:57] they're a little bit of little experiments there's like put a note in a

[1:08:01] bottle throw it in the ocean see if anyone picks it up in this case it's

[1:08:03] more like putting a whole book in a bottle and then throw you the ocean but

[1:08:07] uh hey tell us what you think tweet at me tell me if you want my next explainer

[1:08:11] to be interrupted by Tom Brokaw again talking about Dune or interrupted by

[1:08:15] somebody else I may be Jimmy Stewart's really interested in Narnia I don't

[1:08:20] know yeah I want to know all about Earthsea yeah yeah maybe maybe Edward G

[1:08:27] Robinson is it wants to know if the foundation series is accurate to the

[1:08:32] books sure yeah are there tell me more about these dragon riders of purr that's

[1:08:38] yeah Christopher Walken has a big interest in the dragon franchise now so

[1:08:46] let me know let me know on Twitter did you like this deep dive would you like

[1:08:49] more in the future when there's other Marvel movies don't ask me to do it for

[1:08:52] DC movies don't know don't care not interested for me DC Comics stands for

[1:08:56] don't care comics except when I'm working on them please give me more work

[1:08:59] the but if or if you just want me to go back to bad impressions of people

[1:09:04] talking about if you want accurate guest stars coming to tell us about

[1:09:14] things because you know there's there's more than enough options for those wheel

[1:09:18] of time is is coming out soon and maybe Nicolas Cage is interested yeah so tweet

[1:09:27] at me I'll try to respond if I don't respond just know is that my life is a

[1:09:32] whirlwind of activity yeah anyway I love the fans I live for them but they

[1:09:47] are bottom of the list when it comes to my to-do and so without any further to

[1:09:53] do let's close the book on Adam Warlock yeah and and on Jim Starlin this really

[1:09:58] became a love letter to Jim Starlin which is

[1:10:00] because I love his work.

[1:10:01] And now, watch, we'll find out something horrible

[1:10:03] about him personally, and I'll be like,

[1:10:05] ooh, boy, I didn't know.

[1:10:07] No, I bet he's a good guy.

[1:10:08] Anyway, for The Flophouse, and for Adam Warlock,

[1:10:12] I have been Elliot Kalin.

[1:10:13] I have been Dan McCoy.

[1:10:16] For The Flophouse, and for Moondragon,

[1:10:18] I am Stuart Wellington.

[1:10:20] And I'd like to leave you

[1:10:21] with Adam Warlock's famous catchphrase.

[1:10:25] He doesn't have one.

[1:10:26] All right, bye!

[1:10:27] Bye!

[1:10:28] Bye!

FH Mini #42 - Elliott Explains Adam Warlock

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