Ep. #357 - Santa Claus: The Movie, with Alonso Duralde

Dan McCoy

[0:00] On this episode, we discuss Santa Claus, the movie.

Stuart Wellington

[0:04] Not to be confused with Santa Claus, the sandwich.

[0:10] Perfect. Love it.

[0:30] Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Flop House. I'm Dan McCoy.

Elliott Kalan

[0:41] Whoa, rolling right in. It's me, Stuart Wellington.

[0:44] And rolling on over, it's Elliot Kalin.

[0:46] And we've got a special guest with us today.

[0:48] That's right, joining us as he now does every year, I'm going to say,

[0:53] as our holiday Dudley Moore correspondent.

[0:55] It's the esteemed and brilliant Alonzo Duralde,

[0:58] film reviews editor at The Wrap,

[1:00] co-author of I'll Be Home for Christmas Movies,

[1:03] and an incredibly prolific podcast host.

[1:05] He'll talk about those more later on.

[1:06] Alonzo, thanks so much for joining us and continuing on the Dudley Moore holidays beat.

Alonso Duralde

[1:12] I'm delighted to be back.

[1:14] I think this might be the only other Dudley Moore Christmas movie,

[1:16] so I guess goodbye, everybody.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18] No, no, we'll get him to make some more.

[1:20] We'll expand your purview a little bit for the next time.

[1:23] Oh, Elliot, I have some bad news for you.

[1:25] Why? But I want Dudley Moore.

[1:27] You're saying I'm going to get Dudley less?

Stuart Wellington

[1:28] In a way, from a certain perspective, 10 could be conceived as a Christmas movie.

[1:35] Yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:35] I mean, the last year also was a marginally holiday movie,

[1:40] since it was really much more about a young girl,

[1:42] a dying young girl trying to get her mom laid by Dudley Moore.

[1:45] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:45] Whereas this movie takes on one of the most Christmassy things there is,

[1:49] Santa Claus.

[1:50] It purports to be the movie.

Elliott Kalan

[1:52] Not a, the.

[1:55] Well, name another one.

[1:56] Name another.

[1:57] Well, it was so funny because everyone who was asking me about this,

[1:59] they were like, what movie are you doing this time ago?

[2:01] Santa Claus, the movie?

[2:02] And they're like, yeah, with Tim Allen.

[2:03] I'm like, no, no, no.

[2:04] That's the Santa Claus with an E at the end.

[2:07] No, colon, the movie.

[2:08] Not, colon, the movie.

[2:10] And you have to imagine that for years they were like, we got it.

[2:13] There's no other Santa Claus, the movie.

[2:15] This is the only Santa Claus movie.

[2:16] They were wrong about that.

[2:17] There are other Santa Claus movies.

Alonso Duralde

[2:19] There's like that classic 1959 Mexican one that they did on Mystery Science Theater once.

[2:24] Santa Claus.

[2:24] Which is just Santa Claus.

[2:26] But, you know, this was colon, the movie.

[2:28] Let it be known throughout the land.

Elliott Kalan

[2:29] Do you think they did that so that people walking past the marquees

[2:33] wouldn't think Santa was there making public appearances?

Alonso Duralde

[2:36] Yeah.

[2:37] Well, I mean, we will get into this, but this is produced by the Salkins,

[2:41] Alexander and Ilya, and they had just come off of the great success of Superman, the movie.

[2:47] So I think maybe the thought was like, we own those two words.

[2:51] And so when people see the movie, they're going to know it's a Salkin joint.

Elliott Kalan

[2:54] That explains why they sued the makers of Hot Dog, the movie.

[2:57] Exactly.

[2:58] How dare you?

[2:59] This is not a Salkin film.

Dan McCoy

[2:59] On this note, too, I want to say that this movie, the director also did Supergirl,

[3:05] which we covered with Glenn Weldon.

[3:08] If you want to check out other podcasts about this director's work, ours.

[3:13] In another episode.

Elliott Kalan

[3:15] And it was written by, I mean, we'll talk about this podcast as well,

[3:17] but we should mention this movie was written by David Newman,

[3:20] who had a pretty amazing...

[3:22] Started off with a bang.

[3:23] Started off with a pretty amazing career until Superman 2.

[3:26] And then it was like all downhill, as far as I could tell from there.

[3:29] He went from writing Bonnie and Clyde and Bad Company, which is a really good underrated movie,

[3:33] and What's Up, Doc, to writing like Sheena, Santa Claus the movie, Moonwalker,

[3:39] which is not really a movie.

[3:40] Like it's a video collection with a thin wraparound.

Stuart Wellington

[3:43] And then he joined...

[3:44] Then he became a postal worker and he was always bothering Jerry Seinfeld, right?

[3:48] Yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[3:48] Well, he was so angry about his Hollywood career of crashing that he...

Alonso Duralde

[3:52] And he also had a line of salad dressings, but it didn't really quite take off.

[3:56] Yeah, yeah.

[3:56] But they were his own.

[3:57] They were nobody else's.

[3:58] They were absolutely his own.

Elliott Kalan

[3:59] He said, I'm tired of having my great screenplays ruined by producers.

[4:02] These salad dressings won't have any meddling in them.

[4:04] They're my own only.

[4:06] So Dan, what do we do?

Stuart Wellington

[4:07] He, of course, would put his face on the salad dressing.

[4:09] And sometimes if the salad dressing had, I don't know, like a flavor that was not his,

[4:14] from his culture, it would seem a little bit racist.

[4:17] And you're like, should I buy this or not?

[4:18] Am I going to look bad?

[4:19] We'll find out.

[4:20] Is this mustache problematic?

Dan McCoy

[4:23] You wanted me to describe the podcast.

[4:25] Yeah, let's say, what do we do in this podcast other than just jump into Santa Claus the movie?

[4:29] This is a podcast where we watch a bad movie and then we talk about it.

[4:33] I would say, you know, 70 to 80% of the time, a newer bad movie.

[4:40] But often when we have guests, we like to, you know...

Stuart Wellington

[4:44] Do their favorite movie of all time.

Dan McCoy

[4:45] Do their favorite movie of all time.

[4:47] I was going to say, like, you know, follow their passions, their expertise.

[4:53] Take their passion and make it happen is what you're saying.

[4:55] Yeah, exactly.

[4:56] So this is from the mid-80s, this one.

[5:00] Because, yes, again, it stars Dudley Moore, a man who's no longer with us.

[5:03] So that's clue number one in Blue's Clues.

Elliott Kalan

[5:06] I mean, but it also stars David Huddleston, who is alive and well.

[5:10] Oh, I'm so sorry.

[5:11] I know.

[5:11] Actually, sadly, no.

[5:13] Well, has anything happened to John Lithgow?

[5:15] Is he okay?

[5:16] No, he's fine.

[5:17] Somebody check.

Alonso Duralde

[5:17] He is alive and shit-talking this movie as well he should.

Elliott Kalan

[5:21] Really?

[5:21] Although, I'll just say, he is...

[5:23] I feel like...

[5:23] He's the one thing that works in this movie.

[5:25] He comes out of this movie looking good, and I feel like David Huddleston does too.

[5:28] Like, he's just Santa Claus, and he's just doing Santa Claus things.

Alonso Duralde

[5:32] Oh, and the pantheon of screen Santas, like, say what you will about this movie, and we're

[5:36] about to for the next hour, but David Huddleston is Santa-ing his heart out.

Dan McCoy

[5:40] Yeah.

[5:41] Who you may know as the big Lebowski, the angry, older Lebowski who yells at Jeff Bridges

[5:49] and throws him out of his office and such.

[5:51] Really?

[5:52] Yeah.

Alonso Duralde

[5:52] Yeah.

[5:53] You know, grumpy guys make great Santas.

[5:55] Paul Giamatti in Four Santas.

[5:57] Ed Asner over and over and over again.

[5:59] So, you know, I think the jolly and the grrrr really coexist in the great actors.

Elliott Kalan

[6:05] Yeah, it's the yin and yang of Santas.

[6:07] They're equally both gruff and lovable.

[6:10] David Huddleston, you may remember also from Blazing Saddles, he's the one who says,

[6:13] oh, blow it out your ass, Howard.

[6:14] When Howard Johnson says, you know, Nietzsche says that if chaos comes order.

[6:19] And he says, oh, blow it out your ass, Howard.

[6:21] Anyway, so this movie, it stars those big name stars.

[6:26] I was just reading right here that there were a lot of bigger name stars that were hoping to land for this movie.

[6:31] But maybe I'll bring that casting possibilities up as we get to their roles in the movie.

Stuart Wellington

[6:36] Okay, so the movie begins with the title, hell yeah, and then we have 10 minutes of staring at a boring sky with Christmas music playing in the background.

[6:45] Eventually, it pans down to the planet Earth and we hear a voiceover from a granny introducing kind of the concept of, I feel like, the North Pole and like gift giving or some shit.

Elliott Kalan

[6:56] Yeah, but she's talking about also there's little people who live at the North Pole called Vendigums.

[7:00] And almost instantly when we meet them, they go, we prefer to be called elves.

[7:03] So it's like, so why are we wasting all this time with Vendigums, Dan?

Dan McCoy

[7:06] Yeah, and also this, I mean, it's very clear that this comes from people who were involved in the Superman movies.

[7:15] Like from the beginning, like this feels like, they're like, oh, what's another superhero out in the world?

[7:21] Santa Claus.

Elliott Kalan

[7:22] They're like, who's the superhero that we don't have to pay for?

[7:25] What's a public domain hero?

[7:28] Dracula?

[7:29] Tarzan?

[7:29] We'll look into it.

[7:30] No, Tarzan's not available right now.

Dan McCoy

[7:31] But it starts in the sky and then launches into an origin story.

Elliott Kalan

[7:35] It's also, also the thing that I loved about this is knowing that like, so the Salkinds who made this were Jewish, or at least the dad of the two.

[7:42] So that it's very much like, all right, we're making a Santa Claus movie, not something we have personal experience with.

[7:49] So let's figure it out.

[7:51] What's our explanation for this Santa Claus thing?

Stuart Wellington

[7:53] So the granny is, the granny looks a little bit like Rosemary Harris, is explaining the story to a bunch of bored urchins who were sitting around in a big cabin with their parents.

[8:05] And this is like the Middle Ages.

[8:07] This is a long time ago.

[8:08] Yeah, and then like a Santa-like guy shows up on a sleigh pulled by a pair of reindeer, and he gives the kids a bunch of toys that are basically just like little statues that he's carved.

[8:18] And the kids are clearly kind of bummed that it isn't like a Funko Pop or some shit.

[8:22] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[8:23] They're like, oh, look, there's no points of articulation on this.

[8:26] And he's like, oh, we don't have ball-bearing technology yet.

[8:30] I can't play Animal Crossing on this.

[8:34] They're like, how collectible is this?

[8:35] Should I keep it in the package?

Stuart Wellington

[8:38] So this dude, Mr. Klaus, and his gal go on a snowy sleigh ride while torturing his reindeer.

[8:45] And then the reindeer collapse, and then they all basically decide they're going to die, and the snow covers their lifeless bodies.

[8:52] The sleigh will be their headstone.

[8:54] They ground their tomb.

Elliott Kalan

[8:56] Yeah, this is like seven minutes into the movie, and Santa Claus is essentially dying.

[9:01] So he may be reborn, but still.

Dan McCoy

[9:02] Yeah, as Christian teaching tells us, Santa died only to be reborn.

Elliott Kalan

[9:07] Well, and later on, he's referred to as the chosen one, which is crazy.

Alonso Duralde

[9:12] Well, and heaven knows there's no mention of Jesus in this story.

[9:15] So they could sort of merge those two legends together, willy-nilly, as it were.

Elliott Kalan

[9:20] They go to such lengths to de-religify Christmas, which is a very religious holiday as far as I can tell.

[9:28] And there's no mention of Jesus.

[9:30] And throughout the movie, they keep going, all children everywhere love Christmas.

[9:34] On this night, every child in the world will get a toy.

[9:37] I'll visit all of them.

[9:38] And it's like, that's not, we know that's not the case.

[9:41] Like, we know Santa is pretty hard right on this and is not interested in giving to kids outside of his community, you know.

[9:49] But they really want to make it universal.

[9:51] Everybody loves Santa Claus.

[9:53] And it's a universal picture, so why not?

Stuart Wellington

[9:55] So Santa, his wife, and the reindeer are raised from the dead.

[9:59] Oh, wait, it's a tri-star picture.

[10:00] Sorry, guys.

[10:01] They were raised from the natural age.

Elliott Kalan

[10:02] So there's no excuse.

[10:03] It was a tri-star, the trinity.

[10:04] Yeah, the tri-star is the father, the son, and Santa.

Alonso Duralde

[10:06] Yeah.

[10:07] And also their logo is a flying equestrian animal.

[10:10] That's true.

[10:11] Yeah, it's Pegasus.

[10:11] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[10:12] So a bunch of elves show up and the North Star rises them from the dead and then Dudley Moore is there and then they go to a new home that's like a magical workshop mansion.

Elliott Kalan

[10:22] That's a good way to describe it, yeah.

[10:24] Yeah.

[10:25] And how much time do you figure, Stuart, they spend just wandering the rooms of this in awe at everything they see?

Stuart Wellington

[10:31] I will say I am impressed.

[10:33] Like I like a big physical set.

[10:35] Yes.

[10:35] Like a big physical set and in this case a big physical set filled exclusively with dudes.

Dan McCoy

[10:41] I did make a – like I made a beeline to Wikipedia to see what the budget on this was when I saw like the sets of the North Pole.

[10:51] Because it is like – yeah, big giant sets of like – and then later on there's a – they make a fake like machine that pumps out toys.

[11:02] It's very like Dr. Seussian kind of thing.

[11:06] And I was like this costs money.

[11:08] There's a lot of elves.

[11:09] Yeah.

[11:09] And they all sleep in one big room like they're in a fucking TikTok house.

Stuart Wellington

[11:13] And then they have like a next door hall that's basically their content creation workshop.

Elliott Kalan

[11:18] Yeah, it's pretty much, yeah, an accelerator house.

Alonso Duralde

[11:21] I just wonder like what are the closets that Santa is not allowed to open?

[11:24] Like no, no, no, just not here.

Elliott Kalan

[11:26] Well, Burgess Meredith shows up out of nowhere and we never see him again.

[11:29] So clearly they're keeping him somewhere.

Stuart Wellington

[11:31] So Burgess Meredith is the old fucking wizard, right, with the crazy two-pronged beard.

Elliott Kalan

[11:36] With the two-pronged beard that's so long that he has two elves holding the ends of his beard.

[11:40] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[11:41] He looks like he should be on the cover of a chemist's album.

[11:45] I briefly was like, so wait, is this going to be like the previous Santa Claus that is like handing the mantle over?

[11:55] Because he's like bigger than all the other elves and he's got this big beard.

[11:58] But no, he's more of a John the Baptist figure who has like heralded the coming of Santa.

Elliott Kalan

[12:03] Yeah, his character is listed in this cast listing I'm looking at as ancient elf.

Stuart Wellington

[12:07] Yeah, and I mean it also – it would be weird for him to be giving up this title because as soon as they get there, the elves tell Santa and his wife, Mrs. Claus, that both of you will live forever a fucking chilling threat apparently.

Elliott Kalan

[12:24] You work for us now.

[12:25] It looks like we work for you, but you work for us.

Dan McCoy

[12:28] The whole thing is chilling.

[12:30] I don't understand why he doesn't react to it like a curse because the other thing is like he has to deliver toys to all the children as we know.

[12:39] And they describe that the way this happens is like the night will just never end for him until he has completed his round.

[12:47] So that sounds horrifying.

Alonso Duralde

[12:48] These are simple medieval wood carving folk.

Elliott Kalan

[12:51] What do they know from destinies and eternities?

[12:54] I mean the elves could explain to them because of so much – you'll have toys for every child in the world and that creates so much mass.

[13:00] That the gravity well slows time around you.

[13:02] That's a good point.

[13:03] Einstein – and ancient elf could be like, Einstein will prove this someday, but you'll be up at the North Pole.

[13:08] You won't hear about that.

Stuart Wellington

[13:09] Or has he already proven it?

[13:11] What does time even mean?

[13:12] Who knows?

Elliott Kalan

[13:13] Time is meaningless to such as these.

[13:15] Also, Stuart, you mentioned that there's all dudes there made me imagine Mrs. Claus going to the elf doctor with like a menstrual problem.

[13:23] And the elf doctor is like, I don't know.

[13:25] This is not something we've ever had to deal with.

[13:28] We all reproduce through budding.

[13:31] A little elf just starts growing on us and then it comes out as a big elf.

[13:34] I don't know.

Alonso Duralde

[13:35] Santa needs all the time he can get because he has to form deep friendships with the only two children in all of Manhattan.

Elliott Kalan

[13:41] Exactly.

[13:42] Yeah.

[13:43] I mean Joe is the only living boy in New York.

[13:46] Really.

Dan McCoy

[13:49] The other thing – like time is elastic I guess on Christmas for Santa but all other times I guess it's passing normally.

[13:57] Yes.

[13:57] So they're working like mad men all year.

[14:00] I just kept thinking about how if like time was –

[14:03] Sit around drinking, smoking.

[14:04] On Christmas I would just like do my job so slowly.

Elliott Kalan

[14:11] Well, Dan, this is the difference between you and a beloved figure of folklore who lasts in their job for centuries and centuries making children happy all over the world.

[14:19] You know, I guess.

[14:21] They're always striving.

[14:21] They've got that ambition.

[14:22] They've got to be the best because as we learn from this movie, there is competition out there and they can't rest on their laurels.

[14:28] It's impossible.

[14:28] They can't even rest on Stan Laurel which is too bad because he is truly one of the treasures of the cinema.

[14:33] Such a delight in everything he did.

Stuart Wellington

[14:35] So we were introduced to – we previously mentioned that Dudley Moore is in this.

[14:40] He's one of the elves.

[14:41] His name is Patch.

[14:43] Santa kind of gets to know him while Patch is taking care of the reindeer.

Elliott Kalan

[14:46] Now, I like to read this as part of the Marvel continuity where Patch is what Wolverine calls himself when he's in Madripoor.

[14:52] So perhaps Dudley Moore when he's not doing a great job as an elf later, it's because he's busy with the X-Men off panel, you know, off screen.

[15:00] Okay, that's cool.

Dan McCoy

[15:00] And also immortal.

Elliott Kalan

[15:01] And he's also – well, I mean he's immortal.

[15:04] Patch is – he's real – he's a real gearhead, right?

[15:06] He's always trying to build new things.

[15:07] He's a tinkerer.

[15:08] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[15:08] Well, yeah.

[15:09] I mean it –

Elliott Kalan

[15:10] Does machines one might say.

Stuart Wellington

[15:11] Exactly.

[15:12] As a mind of metals and gears, we got that shit.

[15:15] There's a moment where he even – where he's like, here's my schematic for a clock that wakes you up.

[15:20] And then in the next scene, a fucking cuckoo clock wakes all the elves up.

[15:24] It's like, good one, tech bro.

[15:26] Way to sell us our own shit.

Elliott Kalan

[15:30] Hey, I've got an idea.

[15:31] I'm going to disrupt bodegas.

[15:33] It's a box that goes in the lobby of buildings and you can put money in it and items come out.

[15:38] You mean a vending machine?

[15:39] That's your idea?

[15:40] Yeah, yeah.

[15:41] It's a totally new thing.

[15:42] I've changed the world.

Stuart Wellington

[15:44] So we also – we get to meet all the other reindeer.

[15:48] They're given names and personalities.

[15:50] They're awesome.

[15:51] It's a little bit of like a getting a team together type shit.

[15:53] I love it.

Elliott Kalan

[15:54] Can I read some of these names?

[15:55] Well, there's Puffy.

[15:55] Yeah, why not?

[15:56] But there's Puffy.

[15:57] He's going to turn out to be Patch's kind of big competitor.

[16:00] But there are additional elves named Goober, Groot, Boog, Honka, Voot, and Goobler.

[16:06] So both Goober and Goobler work at the North Pole.

[16:09] They're always getting each other's mail.

[16:11] And I'm also – it's a lot of wood up there.

[16:13] So I'm going to read that Groot the elf is Groot from the Guardians of the Galaxy films.

[16:16] Yet another crossover between the MCU and the SCCU.

[16:20] That's the Sanclubs.

Stuart Wellington

[16:21] So you're talking about elves and not the reindeer, right?

Elliott Kalan

[16:23] No, you know the name is the reindeer.

[16:25] It's Donner and Blitzen and Dixon and stuff like that.

Stuart Wellington

[16:29] So we then have a montage where we see all the elves working.

[16:33] They're like – they're pretty synchronized.

[16:36] They design Santa's suit.

[16:37] They make presents.

[16:39] They use magic and stuff.

[16:40] It's pretty straightforward, right?

[16:42] But it just takes a long time.

[16:43] Yeah.

Alonso Duralde

[16:44] Fun fact.

[16:45] Sorry.

[16:45] They do give him a green suit in this movie, which Mrs. Claus says, no, no, red.

[16:49] Actually, Santa did wear green in folklore forever until the Coca-Cola company decided otherwise.

[16:55] Wow.

[16:55] So they're kind of touching on –

Stuart Wellington

[16:58] And we'll get back to Coca-Cola later.

[17:00] And then the –

[17:00] Oh, boy howdy.

[17:01] Yeah.

[17:02] Yeah, for sure.

[17:02] The roof of the workshop opens up bathing the celebrating elves in blessed guiding moonlight.

[17:08] Hooray.

[17:09] Then the elves bring forward an old elf.

[17:11] We mentioned this guy before.

[17:12] He fucking rules.

[17:13] Ancient elf.

[17:14] Who then starts talking about a prophecy.

Elliott Kalan

[17:16] So this role – apparently they wanted James Cagney to play it originally, this character of ancient elf.

[17:22] But he was too old.

[17:23] He didn't want to – I think he had already – he had already finished his career.

[17:25] He was in ragtime and that was it.

[17:27] According to this, Fred Astaire was considered, but then Dudley Moore suggested Burgess Meredith for the role, which is – he does a fine job.

[17:34] Now, as – the more interesting thing is who was going to play the villain of the movie, which we'll get to later.

[17:40] But just a gem ask.

[17:41] This could have been James Cagney's last role, which would have been an Orson Welles in the Transformers movie level, like, wrong final.

[17:48] Going out on tag time was the way to go.

Dan McCoy

[17:50] Whereas Burgess Meredith lived, you know, another decade.

[17:53] And his final on-screen film role I looked up was Grumpy Old Men.

[17:58] He did have a voice credit after.

Elliott Kalan

[18:01] And Burgess Meredith is hilarious in the Grumpy Old Men movies.

[18:04] Like, I'm sorry.

[18:04] It's true.

[18:05] I think he's so funny in them.

Stuart Wellington

[18:06] And to clarify, he was never in Transformers the movie.

[18:09] No.

[18:09] Okay.

[18:11] Well, that's too bad.

[18:12] Okay, so –

Elliott Kalan

[18:13] I mean, he was in the Sentinel, which is kind of like Transformers for scary kids, right?

Dan McCoy

[18:17] I guess so.

[18:18] He was in Rocky, where a guy sort of transformed himself into a champion.

Alonso Duralde

[18:25] And there was a robot in Rocky IV, but not in the newest.

[18:27] But not a Burgess Meredith in Rocky IV, unfortunately, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[18:31] Guys, I know this is pumping the brakes too much, but that bums me out so hard that the robot's not in Rocky IV anymore.

[18:36] Right?

[18:37] What are they thinking?

Elliott Kalan

[18:39] I mean, he had a reason for removing the robot, I guess.

[18:42] But they – other than the fact that it's kind of bonkers that that robot just shows up.

[18:47] And it's very clearly implied that Polly is having sex with it and that really draws focus away from the implication that Rocky is having sex with Apollo, which is the main aspect of the movie.

Stuart Wellington

[18:59] Okay.

[19:00] So they give the reindeer magic hay and they start bugging out and then they fly.

[19:04] It's pretty cool.

[19:05] And while they fly, the sentries roll by.

[19:08] Magic sand flows through the great hourglass at the center of the universe.

[19:13] Time clicks over.

[19:14] Stuart, this movie is so much more beautiful the way you describe it.

[19:17] And then we pause this montage to see a fucked up scene where this shitty little kid hurts a cat.

[19:24] And apparently he's the first kid in history to go on the naughty list.

[19:27] Kane is like, sucks to be you, dude.

Dan McCoy

[19:31] I do think – yeah, it's funny.

[19:33] This is where it's revealed that Mrs. Claus has a very – has a more harsh view of the world where only the good are deserving of reward.

[19:47] Yeah.

[19:47] And the naughty children fuck them.

[19:50] Well, I mean it's right there –

[19:51] She's a real scold.

Elliott Kalan

[19:52] Yeah, it is there in the Bible that Santa comes with a sword.

[19:56] Yeah.

[19:57] And he is there to destroy the idols of the old world, you know.

[20:01] So – and that's really Mrs. Claus.

[20:02] She's the Lady Macbeth behind the throne, behind the northern throne, you know.

[20:07] So –

[20:07] And we all said she was going to get him to kill God.

Stuart Wellington

[20:10] Oh, wow.

[20:11] So amazing.

[20:11] Like out of a Mobius comic strip.

[20:14] So –

[20:14] Santa Claus –

Dan McCoy

[20:14] And meanwhile, Santa's job is getting exponential – even with removing the naughty kids, you have to imagine it's getting exponentially harder every year.

[20:22] A lot fewer plagues.

Elliott Kalan

[20:24] Oh, I would – but at the same time, people are buying toys for their own kids also, right?

[20:28] So maybe it's a little bit easier.

[20:30] If he skips a house here and there, who's going to know, you know?

[20:32] Are the parents going to break kayfabe on this?

[20:34] I don't think so.

Dan McCoy

[20:35] You're forgetting that his curse, his endless night will not end.

Elliott Kalan

[20:40] Makes his rounds.

[20:41] Okay.

[20:42] That's the story.

[20:43] That should be the story is that Santa, there's one kid that he cannot find.

[20:47] And this kid – and the night will not end until he delivers the final toy to that kid and it's driving Santa mad.

[20:53] For him, this night has gone on for millennia.

[20:56] And even though for us it's been just one night, oh, he's been driven insane.

[20:59] So he's this – he's just – he's going to houses randomly and when he – it's not the kid he wants, he just kills them.

[21:05] And he runs off to the next house.

[21:06] That's the scariest Santa Claus.

Stuart Wellington

[21:07] That's the plot of Arthur Christmas, I think.

[21:09] Yeah, I think it is the plot.

[21:10] He needs to find this kid so he can platinum life the game.

[21:14] Okay, so we also see how letters magically arrive to the North Pole.

[21:19] They basically get whisked away by a magical wind that makes them float across the universe and eventually land through his chimney and don't get burned up.

[21:27] So don't think about that.

[21:29] And then we get a little bit of extra – like other data points about Santa get established.

[21:35] Like the song and then they like fat shame him a little bit and that kind of sucks.

[21:40] And there's a scene where he has to eat like celery instead of soup or whatever he normally eats.

[21:47] But as you said, like it's become a bigger job.

[21:49] So he needs an assistant.

[21:51] So he does a tryout amongst the elves to see who would be the best assistant.

[21:55] Yeah.

[21:56] One of whom, of course, Patch, our little Saruman of the elves here.

[22:00] And then it's what?

[22:02] The other guys?

[22:03] And they basically have a contest.

[22:04] Puffy.

[22:04] It's Patch versus Puffy.

Dan McCoy

[22:06] He's pitting them against one another with no extra money for this contest phase to get better work out of them.

[22:14] Yeah.

[22:14] This is a capitalist scheme.

Elliott Kalan

[22:16] Exactly.

[22:17] And wait.

[22:19] Except the thing is obviously these are all games being put on by the elves to make Santa Claus think that he has any control over his own life.

[22:27] It's true.

[22:27] It's kind of a sick experiment that they're running.

[22:30] Eventually they're going to reveal to him that there are no children and there are no toys.

[22:33] It's all been, you know, it's all, it's all been, he's going to wake up in an isolation booth and they're going to be like, well, come on out.

[22:40] Yes, we've, we've shown the malleability of the human mind.

[22:42] With no agency whatsoever.

[22:44] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[22:45] Yeah.

[22:46] So we like Patch develops like a crazy mechanical assembly line to build toys, but it immediately starts fucking up.

[22:54] But he wins anyway, which is kind of weird.

[22:56] Well, they don't test the toys.

[22:58] They don't seem to.

[22:58] Yeah, it is.

Elliott Kalan

[22:59] Santa just sees a bigger pile of toys and he's like, uh, I guess it's obvious.

[23:04] Got to go with the P man.

[23:05] And they're like, well, both of our names start with P.

[23:07] I'm Patch and he's Puffy.

[23:08] So which one is the P man?

[23:10] You are Patch.

[23:11] Puffy?

[23:12] More like stuffy.

[23:13] Am I right?

[23:13] And Puffy's like, I don't get that.

[23:15] I don't understand.

[23:16] And everyone's laughing at him and pointing.

[23:17] He's like, it doesn't make sense.

[23:18] It's not a good insult.

[23:19] And meanwhile, Patch is putting on like, you know, he's sitting with his feet up on Santa Claus's desk.

[23:24] And when Santa's showering, he's like trying on Santa's outfit and stuff like that.

[23:27] He's just biding his time and Mrs. Claus is making goo goo eyes at him.

[23:30] Oh, it's a, there's just so much, so much sordidness going on behind the scenes of the North Pole.

[23:34] Right.

Alonso Duralde

[23:34] And that's why Puffy changed his name to Diddy.

[23:36] So they wouldn't both be the P guy.

[23:38] Yeah, that makes sense.

[23:39] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[23:40] And you know, uh, you just, I mean, luckily we're about 45 minutes into the movie.

[23:44] So if you're already bored with the stuff going on in the North Pole, let's go to the real world.

[23:49] Don't worry.

[23:50] It's going to turn into a totally different movie.

Elliott Kalan

[23:52] It is amazing how much of the movie, I mean, it is the Superman model.

[23:54] We're like, we're going to tell the origin of the character.

[23:56] They're going to have him growing up as Santa, I guess.

[23:59] And then we're going to have the plot.

[24:01] But it's that Superman, I, sorry, and for people who love Christmas out there, I'm sorry.

[24:05] Superman to me is like interesting enough that you're like, where'd this guy come from?

[24:09] He can fly?

[24:10] How did he deal with that?

[24:11] Whereas with Santa Claus, it's like, I don't know that anyone really cares

[24:14] where he came from or anything.

Dan McCoy

[24:15] Well, also Santa recedes into the background and it becomes Patch's movie.

[24:19] And the thing is like, look, here's the thing.

[24:22] We all know how, we all know how, what Santa is.

[24:26] Like we don't need Santa explained to us origin wise.

[24:29] Like this is something that is like taught to kids at such a young age.

[24:33] We got the Santa idea.

[24:35] We don't need that part of the movie.

[24:36] So we can start with like Elf in the City.

[24:38] That movie is called Elf, starring Will Ferrell.

[24:42] One can see how this film could have been successful if they just cut off the first half.

Alonso Duralde

[24:47] This movie makes you appreciate it.

[24:49] I think everything that works about Superman clearly comes from like Richard Donner and

[24:53] Tom Mankiewicz completely rewriting David Newman's script.

[24:56] Because apparently David Newman's original script was real jokey and didn't really take

[25:00] things seriously.

[25:01] And you look at Superman and you think, wow, this movie somehow manages to accommodate like

[25:06] Marlon Brando as Jor-El and Ned Beatty as Otis.

[25:10] Those are like two very different tones that somehow fit into this whole thing.

[25:15] Whereas this movie wants you to take in like Santa Claus and the elder elf and blah, blah,

[25:19] blah.

[25:20] And then also John Lithgow like acting to the rafters as the evil, evil bad guy.

[25:25] And it's like, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[25:26] Oh, you thought he delivered a big performance?

Alonso Duralde

[25:29] John Lithgow?

Elliott Kalan

[25:30] But it's like not a, but it's also not a jokey movie.

[25:33] Like there's not, there are some jokes.

[25:34] There's one John Lithgow joke that I think is so funny.

[25:36] I had to rewind to watch it again.

[25:38] But other than that, like it's a movie that it takes, it takes this Santa Claus, it takes

[25:42] Santa Claus so seriously.

[25:44] Like it's, it's like there are times when it's like there's, I mean, when, when, when

[25:47] one of the child characters later on is bound and gagged in like the back room of a warehouse.

[25:52] And I was like, this is too much.

[25:54] This, this is too much for a Santa Claus movie.

Stuart Wellington

[25:56] Speaking of, speaking of child characters, in the modern day on the mean streets of New

[26:01] York City, we meet a plucky young urchin named Joe who's just trying to survive out there.

[26:07] He stands looking through the window of a McDonald's and for like 20 minutes we watch a family eat

[26:11] fucking McNuggets.

Alonso Duralde

[26:13] It's like the end of Stella Dallas if it had been Adam McDonald's and that, and I'm glad

[26:17] you said urchin because like the kid literally has like smudges on his face.

[26:21] Like he works in a mill.

[26:22] And fingerless gloves.

Elliott Kalan

[26:23] We're introduced to these two child characters.

[26:25] We'll meet the other one in a moment.

[26:26] And they're both, I, I was like, we saw a yellow taxi cab.

[26:30] So this must be like the present day, but they're both like Victorian characters.

[26:34] And you think he's like looking through the window of McDonald's and he's, maybe he's

[26:38] just, he's just amazed by the fluorescent light.

[26:40] Like he doesn't, he doesn't know what he's seeing.

[26:42] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[26:42] It's like that, that, uh, that, uh, that, uh, issue of from hell where the doctor is like

[26:47] traveling through time and seeing the horrors of the future.

Elliott Kalan

[26:50] He has a modern day office and he's like, you're all dead already.

Dan McCoy

[26:53] I can only assume that the movie, like the movie rightfully knew that Santa Claus, Cole

[26:58] in the movie was not a film that could support having a like realistic homeless child in it.

[27:05] And so they're like, Oh, let's make him a character out of Oliver rather than being like, let's rewrite

[27:11] this so we don't have to deal with the issue of homelessness.

Elliott Kalan

[27:13] I mean, that's the, they could have also, they also could have had not a homeless character in it.

Alonso Duralde

[27:18] The little match boy.

[27:20] Although I really, a movie called Santa Claus movie can barely sustain Santa Claus for the

[27:24] whole thing.

Elliott Kalan

[27:25] Like I said, the second half, he's barely in it.

[27:27] I will say also, if you, if you, if you rent Santa Claus is Cole in the movie, uh, which

[27:31] day mention that's a very different movie.

[27:34] That's not one that's, you're not going to see this.

[27:36] It's a specialized audience.

[27:37] Yeah.

[27:38] Very much so.

[27:39] Uh, but the, I also want to mention that when he looks at the McDonald's, the sound dubbing

[27:43] on the eating in that is so funny.

[27:46] It's like, it's only a few shots, I guess, but it's like the loudest slurp of a soda.

[27:51] And it's like, is this kid listening?

[27:52] Like, did he bug the room?

[27:54] Like the conversation style?

[27:56] He's just listening to these eating sounds.

Alonso Duralde

[27:59] If only the Mac and me breakdance number had broken out, I think that would have really,

[28:03] you know.

[28:03] Oh, that would have been wonderful.

Stuart Wellington

[28:04] So, uh, we're also introduced to a nice rich, uh, rich girl who lives in a mansion named Cornelia

[28:10] and she leaves, uh, like a plate of food and a frosty old Coke out in the snow for, uh,

[28:16] Joe the urchin who, uh, you know, slurps that down while holding it in the appropriate

[28:21] way so we can see the logo the whole time.

Elliott Kalan

[28:24] It's the old, the old can where it says Coke and not Coca-Cola.

[28:27] Yeah.

Alonso Duralde

[28:27] This, this is, this was the, the horrible Coke that no one liked of the mid eighties.

[28:31] Um, you know, then this was new Coke, but when she puts it down on the ground for him,

[28:36] I mean, he can't be a chooser.

[28:37] He's literally a beggar.

Elliott Kalan

[28:38] Of course.

[28:39] Yes.

[28:39] Like if it was an RC, he would just have to take it.

[28:41] Yeah.

[28:42] Oh, don't even bring up such an idea.

[28:43] Forget it.

[28:44] No, no, no.

[28:44] It's terrible.

Alonso Duralde

[28:45] She puts, she puts the can down Coke side to the camera.

[28:48] And then when he goes to pick it up, it has Coca-Cola side to the camera.

[28:52] So not only like, so the continuity screwed up, but they're always labeled a camera.

[28:57] Like that never fails.

Stuart Wellington

[28:59] So Santa decides to make an unscheduled stop.

[29:02] It's Christmas Eve and he's flying around.

[29:05] Uh, and he wants to give this street kid Joe a toy.

[29:08] Um, but instead he like takes him on a late night sleigh ride.

[29:12] It's not weird.

[29:13] Don't be gross guys.

[29:14] It's totally normal.

[29:15] And then there's a lot of reindeer.

Dan McCoy

[29:17] It's just like the song magic carpet ride.

[29:18] It's fine.

Stuart Wellington

[29:18] Yeah.

[29:19] There's a lot of reindeer reaction shots.

[29:21] Like every two seconds we're seeing them like cover their eyes with their ears and shit.

Elliott Kalan

[29:26] And this is, this one they try to pull off a super duper looper, but the reindeer can't do it.

Stuart Wellington

[29:30] Uh, I think maybe.

[29:32] I, I, I kind of, I got a little too scared.

[29:34] I also was covering my eyes with my ears.

Dan McCoy

[29:36] And also speaking of Superman, the, the, you know, like this shares with that long loving shots of just the characters flying.

[29:46] It works for Miyazaki forever.

[29:48] It does work for Miyazaki.

[29:50] Like the thing is in Superman, you're like, oh yeah.

[29:53] Like I haven't seen this done in a movie before.

[29:57] I will believe a man can fly.

[29:59] Yeah.

[29:59] Whereas by the time Santa Claus, the movie comes around, you're like, oh God.

[30:03] Could you stop with this thing?

Elliott Kalan

[30:05] Dan, I would agree with you except that these old fashioned process shots are the best thing in the movie to me.

[30:11] And maybe it's just because it reminds, the only, it reminds me of my childhood.

[30:14] I know I saw this movie as a kid and the only things I really remember are the flying shots.

[30:18] Maybe because there's so much of them.

[30:20] But just give me that three-dimensional object that's clearly been optically printed or whatever into, uh, into footage of a skyline and just make it, get the vectors right.

[30:29] So it, so it scales properly and I'm there.

[30:32] And put some animated glowy dust all over that.

[30:35] Do it.

[30:35] Yeah.

[30:36] Oh man.

Alonso Duralde

[30:37] The glitter.

[30:38] There's more glitter in this movie than in Mariah Carey's glitter.

[30:41] Like everything magical, every, every kind of like transition, whatever, star wipe, glitter, glitter, glitter everywhere.

Elliott Kalan

[30:49] Well, it shows you, it shows you that a, a, a not confident filmmaker who's like, how are people going to know this is magic?

[30:54] How are they going to feel that it's magical?

Dan McCoy

[30:57] Works for strip clubs.

Stuart Wellington

[30:58] Okay, so, uh, a few days after, uh, a few days after Christmas, the toys that Santa delivered are falling apart in a very funny scene of kids like their shit is breaking.

[31:10] I like the kids like thing goes out into the street and a bus runs it over.

Elliott Kalan

[31:14] You can't blame Santa for a thing breaking when a bus runs.

[31:17] And that bus comes so close to the kid.

[31:19] All I could think was like that child almost died and he's just like, oh, my wagon.

[31:23] Maybe they'll play in the street first.

[31:25] Yeah, that's on you, kid.

Stuart Wellington

[31:27] Now, all the world has turned on Santa.

[31:29] People hate him.

[31:30] They're saying it's junk.

[31:31] It's, kids start getting into fights trying to defend Santa.

Elliott Kalan

[31:34] They're beating up, the other agents are beating up Joe.

[31:36] Immediately.

[31:36] Because he said Santa's a good guy.

Stuart Wellington

[31:38] Yeah.

[31:39] Uh, the kids in ballet class turn on Cordelia and there's a pretty wicked slap in that.

[31:44] Yeah, yeah.

[31:45] Uh, and the gifts start being returned somehow.

[31:47] They just like start dumping through, uh, I'm guessing through the same magic as how he gets his letters.

[31:52] Yeah.

[31:53] Um, they start to like draft up like a Twitter post or some shit.

[31:57] To apologize.

[31:57] It's pretty weird.

[31:59] Uh, and then Patch has to resign.

[32:02] He, uh, he packs his shit.

[32:04] The reindeers cry.

[32:06] And then he bounces.

[32:07] He's out of there.

[32:08] Now.

[32:08] Get him the fuck out of there.

Dan McCoy

[32:09] I got a problem.

[32:10] I got a problem.

[32:11] Like clearly Patch's ideas were fundamentally sound.

[32:14] It was just a question of, uh, of, you know, quality control.

[32:19] Well, why clearly?

[32:20] Why were they clearly fundamentally sound?

[32:22] Machine maintenance.

[32:23] Well, cause it worked.

[32:24] It worked.

[32:25] It was working faster.

[32:27] You know, like.

[32:27] It worked faster.

[32:28] But you.

Elliott Kalan

[32:29] They, they got bad toys out of it.

[32:30] Never happened before.

Dan McCoy

[32:31] But if you maintain the machines properly, don't push them.

[32:36] You know, like.

[32:37] Is that possible?

[32:38] I mean.

[32:38] Make sure quality control.

[32:39] I just.

[32:40] I think.

Elliott Kalan

[32:40] Some would say if you plot, if you properly regulate Facebook, it's a force for good.

[32:45] I would say no.

[32:45] Impossible.

Alonso Duralde

[32:47] If you marry Patch's ingenuity with an actual OSHA inspector, I think you might have some.

[32:52] I mean, clearly.

[32:53] Yeah.

[32:53] You're an enemy of progress, Elliot.

[32:55] That's what.

Elliott Kalan

[32:55] I mean, I am.

[32:57] Get a horse.

[32:58] Yeah.

[32:58] I mean, that would be.

[32:59] I would love to get a horse.

[33:00] Thank you.

[33:00] Uh, maybe a little one I can carry in my pocket.

[33:03] But Dan, the.

[33:04] I think you're right.

[33:04] If it.

[33:05] Well, the problem is Patch did not do a prototype run to see.

[33:08] I mean, I guess they did, but then they just shipped those out.

[33:10] It happens with Kickstarter all the time, man.

Stuart Wellington

[33:12] You gotta.

[33:12] There's no QC elf there, like, checking things afterwards.

[33:15] Yeah.

[33:16] Yeah, exactly.

[33:16] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[33:16] So.

[33:17] But there's a PC elf who's like, oh, we need to hire all these elves.

[33:21] Uh-huh.

Stuart Wellington

[33:21] You would think that the.

[33:22] You would think that the movie's over, but no.

[33:24] Cut to a courtroom where John Lithgow is on trial.

[33:28] He is.

[33:29] No, he's not.

Elliott Kalan

[33:29] No, he's testifying before Congress.

[33:31] He is not on trial.

[33:32] He's.

[33:33] He's smoking a big fat cigar like he's on a Warren album.

[33:35] He's testifying before the Congressional Committee on, like, toy quality.

[33:39] Or something like that.

[33:40] The Dangerous Toy Subcommittee.

[33:41] The Dangerous Toy Subcommittee.

Stuart Wellington

[33:42] He's basically kind of doing the Dan Aykroyd bit from Saturday Night Live, right?

[33:46] Yes.

[33:46] Exactly.

Elliott Kalan

[33:47] With Bag of Glass and all that stuff.

[33:48] Yeah.

[33:48] And Johnny Human Torch.

[33:49] Johnny Human Torch.

[33:50] So this.

[33:50] And his character is BZ.

[33:52] That's his name?

[33:53] Yes.

[33:54] And this role.

[33:55] So according to Wikipedia, they wanted a star.

[33:58] They liked that Gene Hackman, who was a big star, played Lex Luthor in Superman.

[34:02] They wanted a star that big.

[34:03] So they offered the role to Harrison Ford.

[34:05] Very.

[34:05] It would have been a very different performance.

[34:07] What?

[34:08] And then when he turned it down, they offered it to Dustin Hoffman, Burt Reynolds, and Johnny

[34:14] Carson.

[34:14] And all of them turned the part down.

[34:17] And then eventually, John Lithgow, who was not a big star at the time, they brought him

[34:22] in apparently after seeing him in terms of endearment.

[34:23] Which I totally get.

[34:24] He's great in terms of endearment.

Stuart Wellington

[34:25] He's great in basically everything.

Elliott Kalan

[34:27] Even bad stuff.

[34:28] Even bad stuff he's still good in.

[34:30] But yeah.

[34:30] But I just imagine how different this role would have been if it was like Johnny Carson

[34:34] playing it or Burt Reynolds.

[34:36] There's a way to do it, I guess.

[34:37] Or Harrison Ford's the one I don't believe.

[34:40] They could work.

Dan McCoy

[34:41] I don't buy Harrison Ford as an evil toy maker.

[34:43] Sorry.

[34:45] A gruff toy maker.

[34:47] Yes.

[34:47] Yeah.

Alonso Duralde

[34:48] Carrie Fisher.

[34:49] Yes.

[34:49] Harrison Ford.

[34:50] Oh, Carrie Fisher would have been amazing in this part.

[34:52] Yeah.

Alonso Duralde

[34:52] She would have been great.

Elliott Kalan

[34:53] Okay.

[34:54] But the world wasn't ready for an evil female toy maker.

[34:56] They just couldn't have it.

[34:58] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[34:59] Back in BZ's office, Patch shows up and they start scheming.

[35:05] That's right.

[35:06] Patch wants to get back into Santa's good graces.

[35:08] BZ wants to reform his image a little bit.

[35:11] So together they hatch a plan to give away some free shit using magic.

[35:15] So of course they make Patch be in a commercial for BZ toys and he looks uncomfortable.

[35:20] But whatever.

[35:21] It's cool.

Dan McCoy

[35:21] I was a little unclear about – so later on Dudley Moore delivers all of these toys for free.

[35:31] In a rocket car.

[35:32] Yeah.

[35:33] That he invented.

[35:33] Yeah.

[35:33] I wasn't sure why they were advertising an item that was just going to show up.

[35:39] Because he's doing –

[35:41] Like a U2 album.

Elliott Kalan

[35:42] Because he's doing –

[35:42] Yeah.

[35:43] That was the worst.

[35:45] I felt so – it felt so invasive in that U2 album.

Alonso Duralde

[35:47] We hated it because we didn't know it was happening.

[35:49] And also I don't like –

[35:50] If they had been a TV commercial, maybe.

Elliott Kalan

[35:52] And I don't like U2.

[35:53] So the idea that – if they had offered to me, I would have said, no, thank you.

[35:55] Oh, you don't like us?

[35:57] Sorry, Bono.

[35:58] I guess you're great.

[35:59] You're not my thing.

[36:00] I'm sorry.

[36:00] No, it was a plan.

[36:01] It was a plan.

[36:01] He means you –

[36:02] Oh, no, no.

[36:03] I also don't like U2.

[36:04] But at this point my brand is stuck with it.

[36:06] You don't like U2?

[36:09] Oh, boy.

[36:10] There's just too much stuff that sounds the same.

[36:12] So the – they want the public – they want the PR from it.

[36:17] So he's putting out this big commercial on every network in the world saying, hey, BZ Toys loves kids so much, we're going to give free toys to everybody.

[36:25] Hey, I know that when you showed my teddy bear in front of the Senate Subcommittee on Dangerous Toys and you opened it up, it was full of glass and nails.

[36:31] But now I'm giving you free toys.

[36:33] So aren't you – and it's got magic in it.

[36:35] And it's an edible.

[36:37] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[36:37] It's not actually a toy.

[36:38] We're giving you –

[36:39] We've pivoted to a sucker.

[36:41] It's a magic lollipop.

Elliott Kalan

[36:42] It's a very broad definition of toy.

[36:45] And it is funny in the commercial how Patch is super stiff.

[36:48] Like he clearly is not enjoying it.

[36:50] And he's surrounded by like rocket-type dancers.

[36:54] Yeah.

[36:55] But this is – this is around the time.

[36:56] I just wanted to highlight – John Lithgow has a line here that I thought was so funny where he's cracking his knuckles while he walks with his – what's his name?

[37:02] Towser, his assistant.

[37:04] Yeah, he goes –

[37:04] Major Domo.

[37:05] Yeah, he goes, ah, nothing like cracking your knuckles.

[37:07] The pleasantest sound in the world.

[37:09] And it's so funny because it's like – yeah, I believe that character would feel that way.

[37:13] But there's no plot reason for it.

[37:15] Like it's not a thing he does ever again.

[37:17] It's just so –

Alonso Duralde

[37:18] One of the things that's great about that commercial is that you can tell they've had to figure out a way.

[37:21] How do we dress up a bunch of showgirls in Dudley Moore in colors and costumes that are more garish and tasteless than what the actual elves have been wearing this entire movie?

[37:31] Because those outfits are an assault on the eyes.

[37:34] Like Santa and Mrs. Claus wind up in these yellow polka dot ensembles where you're just like, make it stop.

[37:41] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[37:41] I don't know, man.

[37:42] I think I could pull off that fit.

[37:44] Well, you could.

[37:45] Yeah, sure.

[37:47] That's what I was fishing for.

Elliott Kalan

[37:48] It's like they're like elf law states.

[37:51] No sleeve can be the same color as another sleeve in the same garment.

[37:55] No one color garments.

[37:57] Elf law says so.

[37:58] It's from the book of Elphiticus.

[38:00] Oh, we didn't even mention all those damn elf puns.

[38:04] So Dudley Moore is constantly like, you just need a little more elf confidence.

[38:07] Or it's like, oh, well, I've got a lot of elf control.

[38:10] And it's like, god damn it.

[38:12] Come on, man.

[38:13] Oh, that's my elf image.

[38:15] And later on, there's an elf portrait.

[38:17] It's like, oh, every time.

Alonso Duralde

[38:19] You're being alpha-facing.

[38:20] Today, he would be taking an elfie.

Stuart Wellington

[38:23] Oh, gross.

[38:26] So you had mentioned the Rockettes before, of course.

[38:28] So that means that Dudley Moore invents a rocket card to deliver all the presents.

[38:33] Yeah, that's what the Rockette is.

[38:34] Yep.

[38:35] And the magic shit that he gives all the kids, it's like magical lollipops that make you float or something.

[38:40] Yes.

[38:41] Huge hit.

[38:41] Everybody loves this shit.

[38:42] People are going nuts.

[38:44] No one dies.

[38:45] Yeah, no one dies.

[38:46] Amazingly.

[38:47] BZ wants more.

[38:48] That's right, Dudley Moore to make even more.

[38:52] Again, Dudley Moore.

[38:54] So he-

[38:54] That's Moore's law.

Elliott Kalan

[38:55] You need magic in your lollipops to make you fly.

Stuart Wellington

[38:58] But he devises a plan for Christmas the sequel, a.k.a. Christmas 2, which I think is a really

[39:03] good idea for March.

[39:05] Back at the North Pole, Santa is fucking bumming, dude.

[39:09] He's starting to rethink his life.

[39:10] He's blaming people for not having the Christmas spirit.

[39:13] And I'm like, work on yourself, dude.

[39:15] Or maybe you can just diminish and go live in the West.

[39:17] Who cares?

[39:18] I mean, so the fact that-

[39:19] Start with the man in the mirror, Santa.

[39:21] Yeah.

[39:21] Well, the fact that he's like-

Elliott Kalan

[39:22] Turn it around.

[39:23] He's like, someone likes another toy.

[39:25] I guess I should just quit.

Dan McCoy

[39:27] He's such a big baby.

[39:29] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[39:30] It's a lot-

[39:31] He's a lot-

[39:31] He's very elf-entitled, you know.

[39:34] It's about-

[39:34] Oh, boy.

[39:35] Oh, shit.

[39:36] Oh!

Stuart Wellington

[39:36] Now it's starting.

[39:38] Now it's happening.

[39:39] So yeah, the elves try and snap out of it.

[39:40] Now it's happening, mutters Dan with Kate in his heart.

[39:43] There's a great scene where the elves try and snap San out of it by showing him a doll that wets itself.

[39:48] And he's like, get that shit out of my face.

Dan McCoy

[39:51] He's like so mad about it.

[39:53] No.

[39:56] Does it fly?

Stuart Wellington

[40:01] Back in New York City, Joe-

[40:02] You're dinosaurs.

[40:03] You're old-fashioned.

Elliott Kalan

[40:04] We want new ideas like lollipops that make you fly.

Stuart Wellington

[40:07] Exactly.

[40:08] Yeah.

[40:08] Joe shows up at Cornelia's mansion.

[40:10] He's all six, so she takes him in and lets him get over his fever in the basement.

[40:15] He's literally-

Elliott Kalan

[40:16] He's lying among trash in the basement.

Stuart Wellington

[40:18] And this house has roughly 400 bedrooms.

[40:21] She's got to make him feel comfortable.

[40:23] He's more comfortable around trash.

[40:24] It's like Jason Bourne has to sleep on the floor, you know?

Elliott Kalan

[40:27] Do you think there was a scene where he was in like a lavish, luxurious bedroom and he was like,

[40:32] I just can't get comfortable.

[40:33] Don't you have like a flat cardboard box on a hard cement floor?

Dan McCoy

[40:37] Do you have a garbage room in this house somewhere?

[40:38] Put some trash in here with me.

[40:40] The movie is really weird about this character.

[40:42] Again, I think to try and cut the sadness of just having this character in the movie because he's always like,

[40:49] no, I don't want to sleep inside.

[40:51] You know?

[40:51] Like, as if it's been his choice to be out on the street for this whole time.

Alonso Duralde

[40:55] He should be doing whatever that number from Oliver and Company is, you know?

[40:59] Yeah.

[41:00] Living by his wits or whatever.

[41:02] Why should I worry?

Elliott Kalan

[41:03] Yes, that's it.

[41:04] And we've learned by this point that Cornelia is Beezy's niece, right?

[41:08] Or step-niece?

[41:09] Step-niece.

[41:10] Yeah.

[41:10] Oh, yeah.

[41:11] So Beezy's in the house with him.

[41:13] We want to make sure that the audience knows that Cornelia doesn't have any of Beezy's tainted evil blood.

[41:18] It's a step-uncle who still takes care of her for some reason.

[41:22] Yeah.

Alonso Duralde

[41:22] She's such an orphan that, like, step-uncle was the best she could do.

[41:27] Everybody else gone.

Stuart Wellington

[41:30] So they're in the basement and they overhear a secret business talk between Beezy and his business manager guy.

[41:38] Towson.

[41:39] While they drink, do they both drink PBR out of Brandy Snickers?

[41:44] I think it was Miller High Life.

Alonso Duralde

[41:47] No, I think it's PBR.

[41:48] Oh, really?

[41:49] That was the other big brand.

[41:51] The other brand sponsor of this movie besides Coke and McDonald's.

Stuart Wellington

[41:55] I couldn't tell if he poured himself a cognac or a brandy and poured his manager the PBR, which would be a funnier joke.

Dan McCoy

[42:02] By the way, this also has the joke that I thought Elliot might have been referring to.

[42:09] He was talking about the knuckle one, but I like when John Lithgow was going, uh-huh, uh-huh, when the guy kept saying things.

[42:16] Finally, he was like, could you just say more than one sentence at a time so he don't have to stand here saying, uh-huh, over and over and over again?

Elliott Kalan

[42:23] Towson, we should mention, he's played by multiple Emmy winner Jeffrey Kramer, who was in Stewart's favorite movie, Heart Beeps, as Party Butler Robot.

[42:34] Oh, yeah, the Paul Schrader movie, Heart Beeps?

[42:36] Yeah, the favorite Paul Schrader movie, Heart Beeps.

Stuart Wellington

[42:39] Kramer, yeah, he's the one always busting in and shaking his head all funny.

[42:43] And then he had that horrible stand-up snafu.

[42:45] Okay, so let's see.

Elliott Kalan

[42:47] A lot of misunderstandings there, but I think it's okay, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[42:50] So we find out that the magic candy canes that they're trying to give out that are super powered are just a little too volatile and can explode if exposed to heat.

[43:02] Uh-oh, I wonder if that's going to matter.

[43:04] But Beesie's like, fuck it, let's just risk it, who cares?

[43:07] However, they find out that the kids overheard this shit, so of course he captures Joe and chains him to a radiator in the basement of the factory.

Elliott Kalan

[43:14] Yeah, their plan is literally to – he says we've got all this money in cash because I guess kids have been paying for the candy canes ahead of time in cash.

[43:23] And they're going to take the cash and go to Brazil where they'll just live hedonistic life until their hearts give out and they can't be extradited.

Alonso Duralde

[43:33] And let Patch face the music and a life sentence in prison will be an eternal one, so that's really kind of a dark irony.

Dan McCoy

[43:40] Yeah, it is.

[43:41] It's horrifying, really.

[43:42] Eventually the prison will fall down a round patch.

[43:45] He'll wander the planet Earth.

[43:47] Yeah, that's true.

Elliott Kalan

[43:49] When America is about a wasteland, yeah, sure, yeah.

[43:54] But he believes in rules by that point, so he refuses to leave the grounds of what was once the prison until he's cleared by the governor, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[44:03] So Cornelia writes Santa a letter.

[44:05] It gets whisked away with magic.

[44:07] It shows up and Santa's like, what the fuck?

[44:09] It's January.

[44:10] Who's the greedy kid who needs shit?

[44:11] And then he reads it.

[44:12] He's like, oh, man, Joe needs our help, so let's saddle up these reindeer.

[44:15] And they're like, two of them are sick.

[44:16] And he's like, I don't give a shit.

[44:18] The fact that two of them are sick does not really go much of anywhere.

[44:21] It does not matter at all.

[44:22] Yeah.

[44:22] But it does have a cute moment where they're sticking out like a curlicue thermometer in a reindeer puppet's mouth.

[44:29] Yeah.

[44:29] Yeah, and it lights up.

[44:30] That was adorable.

Dan McCoy

[44:31] And then he gives a long speech to the remaining reindeer puppets.

[44:34] It's like, some of you may die.

[44:36] Give us a special Academy Award for doing this.

Elliott Kalan

[44:40] For outstanding Santa acting before puppets.

[44:42] Yeah.

[44:43] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[44:43] At the factory, Joe and Patch have a confrontation.

[44:48] Patch realized that Santa still likes him because he finds this, like, weird statue that Santa whittled up him.

[44:53] It's like, again, Funko Pops.

[44:56] So they decide to bounce back to the North Pole.

[44:59] However, he loads all the explosive candy canes into the trunk of his rocket car.

[45:04] And you're like, uh-oh.

[45:05] Because he doesn't know they're explosive.

[45:07] And why does he do that?

[45:08] Well, because he's like, if I do this, then Santa won't have to make shit because I already made this shit.

[45:13] We can give it out next year.

[45:14] Kids love it.

Elliott Kalan

[45:15] Because the whole reason he did this was just to show Santa that he's really good so he'd go back to Santa and get his job back.

[45:20] Yeah.

Alonso Duralde

[45:20] And they won't melt in the super hot trunk of my rocket car.

[45:23] Exactly.

Stuart Wellington

[45:23] So Santa and Cornelia are chasing them in the sleigh trying to warn them of the danger they're in because they don't know that those things are going to explode.

[45:32] Now, back at BZ's office, the authorities are closing in on him.

[45:37] They're going to bust his ass.

[45:38] So he chomps a bunch of candy canes to escape and he flies out the window and eventually flies into outer space.

[45:44] Yep.

Elliott Kalan

[45:44] It's just like Moriarty at the end of League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Volume 1.

[45:47] Alan Moore once again stealing from Dudley Moore's work.

[45:52] He did it before he'll do it again.

Alonso Duralde

[45:54] In the director's cut, he becomes the star child though.

[45:57] So it's a whole other thing.

[45:58] Oh, wow.

Elliott Kalan

[45:59] Yeah, he achieves enlightenment once he gets far enough away from Earth.

[46:01] And he goes, oh, why was I so concerned with possessions and physical things?

[46:07] Truly, it is the matter of the soul.

[46:08] That is the only thing that should matter at all.

[46:11] And he becomes from B to Z, the beta to the omega.

[46:15] It creates a singularity inside.

[46:17] He watches himself die in a hotel room.

[46:19] Yeah, he goes back in time and becomes the Big Bang and his spirit tells Adam and Eve in the garden to make toys or something.

[46:28] But now it's the big zang.

Stuart Wellington

[46:29] It's the big zang.

[46:31] That's what BZ stands for.

[46:32] Yeah.

[46:33] So this is all great.

[46:35] But meanwhile, back in the terrestrial realm, Santa is chasing the rocket car, which is – they're starting to have some problems here.

[46:43] And they're like, there's no way we're going to catch them.

[46:45] They're going to explode.

Elliott Kalan

[46:46] Well, Stanley Moore – Patch and Joe are hot-dogging so much in this rocket car.

[46:50] They're just driving without anyone steering.

[46:52] They're covering their eyes.

[46:53] It goes on forever.

[46:54] Them just kind of like doing tricks in the rocket car.

Stuart Wellington

[46:57] Drive it like you stole it.

Dan McCoy

[46:59] There was a part during this long chase scene where like Audrey like had paused the movie to point out some buildings in the Bronx that she recognized.

[47:13] And I'm like, we're 10 minutes away from the end.

[47:16] Why are you stopping?

[47:18] Why?

Elliott Kalan

[47:19] Please.

[47:20] Is there a feeling – I've never been a professional filmmaker.

[47:22] Guys, what do you think?

[47:23] Is there a feeling that if you have a chase sequence of any kind, it just also functions as padding to get your movie to a certain length?

[47:30] Because it reminds me of the chase scene in Howard the Duck where they're on that little plane and it goes on for so long.

[47:35] And there's no way anyone watching it was ever like more of this.

[47:39] We're not doing enough of it.

[47:40] It's too entertaining.

[47:42] We need more.

[47:42] Like it feels like it's just a way of just padding out the end of the movie or what.

Dan McCoy

[47:46] I mean I've mentioned it on the show before, but like that's what I read about the Rockford Falls.

[47:50] So they put a chase in every episode so they could make time.

[47:53] They could either expand or contract it as needed.

Stuart Wellington

[47:56] I feel like –

[47:57] Yeah, like Sons of Anarchy did the same shit.

Alonso Duralde

[48:00] I think in movies that don't work, you're more likely to cut dialogue than you are anything that remotely resembles action.

[48:06] I guess that makes sense.

[48:07] Just a thought.

[48:08] Because it's like every now and then you –

Stuart Wellington

[48:10] And if you get Friedkin in there to direct your sleigh rocket car chase scene –

Elliott Kalan

[48:15] I forgot that it's an additional sleigh material directed by William Friedkin.

[48:21] To live and die at the North Pole.

[48:22] There's that chase sequence in The Town, which is otherwise kind of a mediocre movie.

[48:26] And it's like every time I see a good chase sequence, it like jumps out and hits me in the face.

[48:30] And I wonder like did they think they were making that or is it just that most of the chase sequences I see are so lackluster that when I see a good one, I'm like, whoa, what is this?

Alonso Duralde

[48:38] Well, David Dumont did co-write What's Up, Doc, which has a great car chase in it.

[48:42] So maybe he was trying to sort of like chase that dragon.

Elliott Kalan

[48:44] That is a really good chase scene, although they ruined some public stares in San Francisco driving a car over them without permission.

[48:51] So take that, Peter Bogdanovich.

[48:53] Public scold.

[48:55] I just hope someday Peter Bogdanovich will pay for that karmically in some way.

[49:00] And hopefully it will fit the crime.

Dan McCoy

[49:02] Sorry, Alonso, is that too much?

Elliott Kalan

[49:04] Considering the wreckage his life became.

[49:05] We just maybe crossed the line, I think, for the first time ever in this podcast.

Stuart Wellington

[49:09] So it looks like there's nothing they can do.

[49:12] The sleigh is just not going fast enough.

[49:14] And then Santa turns to Cornelius and he's like, we're going to have to do the fucking super duper looper.

[49:18] So which means they go much faster and then they do a loop where they fly under the rocket car.

[49:25] They loop over the rocket car.

[49:28] Rocket car explodes and they loop back under and catch them, which is wild.

[49:32] Why do they have to do the whole loop?

[49:34] No.

[49:34] I mean, they're just stunting.

[49:35] What's happening?

Dan McCoy

[49:36] I was yelling at the television, like, what is this maneuver supposed to be accomplishing?

Elliott Kalan

[49:42] It feels less like they're trying to save, like saving Patch and Joe is just a side effect of them, of Santa taking the moment to just front and show that, show Santa and show Patch that he's always going to be the best.

[49:53] And Patch can't.

[49:54] There's like a special achievement they need to unlock.

[49:56] Like, I don't know what the fuck's going on.

[49:58] Yeah, if he's going to get the medal for the level.

[50:00] Yeah.

Alonso Duralde

[50:00] It's like when Jane Fonda finally does the back flip at the end of On Golden Pond.

[50:04] And so you know that she has taken in the lessons.

[50:07] It's, you know, it has that same identical emotional.

[50:10] I get it.

Elliott Kalan

[50:10] So Santa's like, I never can get over my feelings about my father until I do the super duper looper.

[50:16] Exactly.

[50:18] That was, I was, I only recently got to see On Golden Pond for the first time.

[50:22] And I was like, it just struck me what I, what I was like, I can't imagine this movie being like as big a hit as it was at the time.

[50:30] It's, it's so much about like, just kind of like upset white people who are doing fine otherwise, you know.

[50:36] But it was, I don't know, that was, that was, that was like the second biggest movie of the year or something like that.

Alonso Duralde

[50:40] Oh yeah.

[50:41] Well, you know, it's funny when you go back and you look at the top 10 box office of the early 80s, movies like Terms of Endearment and On Golden Pond are there where now it's like, it's all, you know, Marvel and Fast and the Furious.

[50:53] But like, yeah, these sort of adulty dramas that they barely even make anymore were huge theatrical experiences.

Elliott Kalan

[50:59] Were enormous.

[51:00] Well, you had to go to the movies to see that kind of thing.

[51:01] You just couldn't watch it on TV.

Stuart Wellington

[51:02] I mean, yeah, I feel like again, like a lot of that type of stuff has now been relegated to like 10 part miniseries and shit.

[51:09] No, absolutely.

Elliott Kalan

[51:10] No question.

[51:10] If they did On Golden Pond now, it would be like at least a six part miniseries and a lot of it would be told in reverse.

[51:15] Like it would start with, with a mystery and then you'd have to go back to find out.

[51:19] You'd be flashbacks to them as, as kids and stuff like that.

[51:22] And oh man, that would be so boring.

[51:26] Guys, you know what?

[51:27] Let's do it.

[51:27] Let's make it.

[51:28] Let's just fuck it.

[51:29] Let's just make On Golden Pond the series.

[51:31] Let's fucking do it.

[51:31] Dan, who do you think would play the Catherine Hepburn part?

[51:36] Why do you think?

[51:37] Dan's the casting director of the movie.

[51:39] Because you're the casting director.

[51:40] Dan, it's Catherine Hepburn.

[51:42] What part do you think it is?

[51:44] Kate Blanchett.

[51:45] Okay, perfect.

[51:46] Great.

[51:46] You mean somebody literally played Catherine Hepburn?

[51:48] Okay, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[51:49] I didn't remember that until after.

[51:51] I was like, oh wait, in The Aviator she was.

[51:54] But I think that means that.

[51:57] I think he's on to something.

[51:58] Okay, so who's playing Henry Fonda then?

Elliott Kalan

[52:01] Henry Fonda.

[52:02] Don't say Peter Fonda.

[52:03] He's not alive anymore.

Dan McCoy

[52:05] Well, I mean, how old is Henry Fonda?

[52:07] He's very old.

[52:08] He's very old.

[52:11] Like old, old.

[52:13] Okay, could we.

[52:14] Guy Pearce and old guy makeup?

[52:16] Yes.

[52:16] Okay, we did it.

Elliott Kalan

[52:17] Guy Pearce and old guy makeup.

[52:18] Kate Blanchett as Catherine Hepburn.

[52:21] And as the kid, we'll say Timothy Chalamot.

[52:23] Okay, continue, Stuart.

[52:24] Let's finish the movie.

Stuart Wellington

[52:25] So they go back to Santa's workshop.

[52:27] They fucking pop some bottles.

[52:28] Throw a party.

[52:29] It rules, right?

[52:30] Movie's over.

Dan McCoy

[52:31] Yeah, they're like, oh, this kid.

[52:33] These kids are going to stay with us forever.

Elliott Kalan

[52:36] Yeah, and the head elf is like, now I have to open a school.

[52:40] And there's this look in the kid's face of like, what is happening?

[52:43] Wait a minute.

Alonso Duralde

[52:45] Maybe Santa thinks now that he's found an heir, he's allowed to die now.

[52:49] Yeah, the curse is broken.

Dan McCoy

[52:50] All the other homeless children in the world can go suck an egg, I guess.

[52:55] No, they would love to suck an egg, Dan.

Elliott Kalan

[52:57] That's needed sustenance.

Dan McCoy

[52:58] The last shot of this movie is John Lithgow in space.

[53:04] Yeah, yeah.

[53:04] Like that is the last.

[53:06] Right before his lungs explode.

Elliott Kalan

[53:09] They're all laughing and dancing.

[53:11] And the last movie is just him floating off to space to die.

[53:14] Like there's no, he's not coming back.

[53:16] He's going to freeze solid and then, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[53:19] Even if he did come back, he would fall to his death.

[53:22] If he came back, he would certainly be changed in some way.

[53:25] Yeah, dead.

[53:25] Strange, horrifying.

Elliott Kalan

[53:27] And catch fire while re-entering the atmosphere.

[53:31] Yeah, yeah.

[53:32] So now he's this horrible, melted, gloppy, insane creature that is wandering around looking for Santa to get, looking for Patch to get revenge.

[53:40] Because Beasy and Santa never meet each other in the whole movie.

[53:43] It's just like Heat, except without the scene, without Pacino and Robert De Niro meeting each other.

[53:48] Yeah.

S5

[53:54] Hello.

[53:55] I'm Pee Wee Herman.

[53:57] You might know me from TV, but I really want to be a DJ.

[54:01] It took some convincing.

[54:03] But KCRW finally agreed to give me an hour on the radio to play you some music with my friends.

[54:11] Anyway, tune in for one hour of the bestest, most funnest time you'll ever have on the Pee Wee Herman Radio Hour.

[54:20] I am personally inviting you to tune your transistor radio in to hear me or go to KCRW.com.

[54:28] Duh.

[54:29] It'll be available for the whole week from November 26th to December 3rd.

[54:33] So you can listen to it again and again and again and again and again and again.

[54:41] The Pee Wee Herman Radio Hour was produced by Maximum Fun and can be streamed on KCRW.com until December 3rd.

[54:50] I listen to Bullseye because Jesse always has really good questions.

[54:54] What did John Malkovich wear when he was 20?

[54:57] Duh.

[54:58] I don't know how to describe it.

Dan McCoy

[55:00] There's always that moment where Jesse asks a question that the person he's interviewing has not thought of before.

S5

[55:07] I don't think anyone's ever said that to me or acknowledged that to me, and that is so real.

[55:12] Bullseye.

[55:13] Interviews with creators you love and creators you need to know.

[55:17] From MaximumFun.org and NPR.

Dan McCoy

[55:21] Hey, this show is improbably sponsored by some people, and we'd like to thank them and get their message out to the world.

[55:31] So, Elliot?

Elliott Kalan

[55:32] This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp Online Therapy.

[55:36] As you heard, Dan seems to have a little bit of a self-esteem issue about the show, doesn't think it's worth supporting.

[55:41] Maybe that's the kind of thing he could talk to somebody at BetterHelp Online Therapy about.

[55:44] Look, let's talk about it honestly.

[55:48] We take care of a lot of things in our lives.

[55:50] There's a lot of parts of our life that we do work on so that they stay in healthy working order.

[55:56] You get your car tuned up.

[55:58] You do exercise to keep your body working right.

[56:01] You eat right because you've got to put in good stuff if you want to get good stuff out of it, by which I mean quality fertilizer.

[56:08] So, going to therapy is a lot like that, except it's for your mind and your emotions as opposed to physical things that you can touch and hold and see.

[56:17] But often, that's more important.

[56:19] The stuff on the outside is not going to work properly if what's happening inside is not to the way that you want it to be.

[56:25] Therapy doesn't mean that there's something wrong with you necessarily, although I'm firmly of the belief that there's something wrong with everybody to varying degrees and that therapy is good for everybody.

[56:34] It just means that you are investing in keeping yourself healthy and keeping your emotions and your mind just functioning the way you want them to.

[56:42] So, BetterHelp is a way to get it.

[56:44] BetterHelp is customized online therapy that offers video, phone, even live chat sessions with your therapist.

[56:49] You don't have to see anyone on camera if you don't want to.

[56:51] Find the way that is most comfortable for you to talk honestly and openly about yourself, what might be concerning you, what's going on in your life.

[56:58] It can be more affordable than in-person therapy.

[57:00] You can start communicating with your therapist in under 48 hours.

[57:03] If I'm being honest, something that keeps me from therapy sometimes is the process of finding the right therapist if I move to a new place or my old therapist is no longer – or if they move or retire or something like that.

[57:15] It's hard to find the right therapist for you in the right match, and BetterHelp makes that a lot easier.

[57:20] It cuts down on the investment.

[57:21] You have to put in to get to the right person.

[57:23] So, you invest in everything else in your life.

[57:25] Why are you not investing in your mind?

[57:27] You should be.

[57:27] So, we're sponsored by BetterHelp, and Flophouse listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com.

[57:34] That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P.com.

[57:40] Please take care of yourself.

[57:43] It's going to be helpful.

[57:44] You won't regret it.

[57:45] Thank you.

Stuart Wellington

[57:46] And we've also got a Jumbo truck!

[57:51] Stuart fell off a cliff.

Elliott Kalan

[57:52] Oh, no.

Stuart Wellington

[57:53] Okay, I'm back, guys.

[57:54] Scary Christmas floppers.

[57:58] Are you a fan of holiday horror films like Black Christmas and Krampus?

[58:03] Then buckle up for Red Snow, a ghoul-tied horror comedy now available to preorder on VOD and DVD.

[58:12] A fan favorite at Arrow Video Fright Fest and winner of the Audience Award at Genre Blast.

[58:19] Red Snow tells the blood-soaked tale of a wannabe vampire romance novelist who comes face-to-face with real-life creatures of the night.

[58:28] Fans of Commando, i.e. everybody, take note because Vernon Wells is all over this movie.

[58:35] Cool.

[58:36] Red Snow is one you'll want to add to your winter movie scare-a-thon, so visit redsnowmovie.com to own it forever.

[58:46] Then it says Crypt Keeper Laugh.

[58:48] Oh, wow.

[58:49] So give me a Crypt Keeper Laugh.

[58:50] I can't do one.

Dan McCoy

[58:52] Thank you.

Stuart Wellington

[58:54] Dueling Crypt Keeper Laugh.

Elliott Kalan

[58:56] Okay, Laugh.

[58:57] Is that the plural of Laugh?

[58:58] Laugh.

[58:58] Yep.

[58:59] Cheers.

[59:00] Horror fans, here's another horror thing for you.

[59:02] Hey, by the time this episode comes out, Maniac of New York, The Bronx is Burning, number one.

[59:07] First issue of the new miniseries volume of my story comic with Andrew Moody from Aftershock Comics is going to be out in stores.

[59:15] That's Maniac of New York, The Bronx is Burning, number one.

[59:18] Maniac Harry is back along with all your favorite heroes from the first series.

[59:22] Zelda, Gina, Lena, that mare that nobody likes.

[59:25] They're all in this one.

[59:26] But uh-oh, the Maniac is up in the Bronx and things are going to get horrifically bloody.

[59:32] If you're new to Maniac of New York, the collected edition of the first series, Maniac of New York, volume one, The Death Train, is also on store shelves now.

[59:39] So pick it up.

[59:40] It's from Aftershock Comics.

[59:41] Go to your local comic book store and tell them, I want Maniac of New York, The Bronx is Burning, number one, and I want you to order me the rest of the series.

[59:47] It's going to be four issues, four pulse-pounding issues of horror in the crazy Kalen classic.

[59:56] Something that starts with – that means like manner or style but starts with K or C.

[1:00:01] Characteristic.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:02] Yeah, characteristic.

[1:00:06] So yeah, go to your local comic store and say, make mine Maniac of New York.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:12] Oh, that's so much better.

[1:00:13] Thank you, Stuart, for that.

[1:00:15] Maniac of New York, The Bronx is Burning, number one on store shelves now.

Dan McCoy

[1:00:22] All right, well, let's do final judgments whether this is a good, bad movie, a bad, bad movie, or a movie you kind of like.

[1:00:30] I don't know.

[1:00:31] Because I was yelling at the movie to end, I think I have to say that it's a bad, bad movie.

[1:00:38] But also, it is so very strange like this movie.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:44] Dan, you want to know how much stranger it can be?

[1:00:46] This is also according to Wikipedia that originally offered the chance to direct the movie, John Carpenter.

[1:00:50] Yeah.

[1:00:51] But he also wanted to do the writing and the score.

[1:00:53] Soundtrack would have been awesome.

[1:00:54] Yeah, he wanted to do the score.

[1:00:55] And the final cut, they said no.

Dan McCoy

[1:00:57] Yeah.

[1:00:57] Well, thank God.

[1:01:00] Good work, John.

[1:01:01] You priced yourself out of it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:03] You have to imagine they were like, John Carpenter, do you want to direct the Santa Claus movie?

[1:01:06] And he goes, huh, I can't say no because maybe they'll ask me to direct a Superman movie.

[1:01:10] So I'll just say yes, but I also want to do the score.

[1:01:12] And they were like, okay, forget it, forget it.

Dan McCoy

[1:01:15] Yeah.

[1:01:16] It is one of the more bizarre things that you will see in terms of like a big blockbuster from the past or would-be blockbuster.

[1:01:26] Just a misbegotten project.

[1:01:28] Like I would say bad, bad.

[1:01:30] I didn't really enjoy it.

[1:01:32] I saw it when I was a kid.

[1:01:33] I didn't like it when I was a kid either.

[1:01:35] But it is almost worth seeing just because it's so strange is my final judgment.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:41] It's very strange.

[1:01:41] I was very excited when I saw that Dudley Moore was playing a character named Patch, which I assumed was kind of a reference to the reoccurring scoundrel figure that keeps showing up in the Dark Souls universe games.

[1:01:52] But in fact, it has nothing to do with it.

[1:01:54] He is not a weird, bald Spider-Man or normal man who tricks the hero and then you have to get revenge on him.

[1:02:01] That doesn't happen in this movie.

[1:02:03] Or Patch Adams, sadly.

[1:02:05] Or Patch Adams.

[1:02:06] Yeah.

[1:02:07] So I'm going to say bad, bad, I guess.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:10] I'm going to say good, bad because it is not a good – it's not a good movie.

[1:02:16] But I feel like it is – if you said to someone, hey, they made a movie about Santa Claus, this is both what you would imagine and exactly not what you would imagine.

[1:02:26] It's like everything in it is – you're watching and you're like, yeah, I guess this is what you'd do if you're making a Santa Claus movie.

[1:02:32] But everything is just like enough degrees off that it doesn't feel right.

[1:02:36] But some of that I think is just residual 80s nostalgia on my part.

[1:02:40] I love John Lithgow's office.

[1:02:42] I love that it's the 80s.

[1:02:43] But because he's rich, the iconography is that he dresses like it's the 30s, complete with those like mud covers over his shoes that people haven't worn since the 30s.

[1:02:51] And like it's – you know, it's – and I love all old 80s effects.

[1:02:57] So I'm going to say good, bad but only if I guess you're exactly my age and me.

Alonso Duralde

[1:03:03] I mean it's like – I don't know if this is a category.

[1:03:06] It's bad, bad, but you have to see it.

[1:03:09] Yeah.

[1:03:10] You just – you can't begin to describe this thing.

[1:03:13] You have to look at it and be like, wow, someone thought this was a good idea.

[1:03:17] And again, I think it is – if nothing else, like if you want to elevate Superman and Superman 2 in your mind, this is what it could have been.

[1:03:24] You know, I think this movie is – it's like when you watch the version of Brazil that the president of Universal actually wanted to release.

[1:03:33] It's like, okay, well, now we know what you were about.

[1:03:36] Like this is what the Salkins would have done with Superman if other people hadn't stepped in and be like, let's not do it this terrible way and maybe make a good movie.

[1:03:45] So yeah, it's bananas.

[1:03:47] I had never seen this one until I was researching my previous book, Have Yourself a Movie Little Christmas, and my jaw was on the floor the whole time.

Stuart Wellington

[1:03:56] I couldn't believe this thing.

[1:03:59] Yeah.

Alonso Duralde

[1:03:59] And if you're like me and you like going to YouTube to watch the Christmas commercials of your youth, which is a really great nostalgia fix, there are these mid-80s like Kodak commercials that is just footage from this film with occasional like, you know, freeze frames as though some elf were taking like disc cameras, snapshots of each other or whatever.

[1:04:19] But I'm like, well, okay, got to use that footage.

[1:04:21] You built that set.

[1:04:22] You might as well.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:23] Yeah.

[1:04:24] This movie, it's what you'd call like a grim cartoon.

[1:04:27] Like it's totally unrealistic and childlike, but it also – but it's shot like the 80s movies that still kind of look like 70s movies.

[1:04:35] So like this kid is a Victorian urchin, but it looks like he lives in a grime and it's disgusting and like the buildings all look kind of a little old and run down.

[1:04:44] And like it's – they – it's like kind of shot too real, but it also exists in a world where a kid like takes a magic lollipop and suddenly he can float up to the cookie jar and just get – waggle his eyebrows at his mom like,

[1:04:56] Now I have control of the cookies.

[1:04:58] But you could put – sorry.

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:00] I was just saying I watched this on Peacock and there were commercials in there and I feel like it enhanced the viewing experience.

Alonso Duralde

[1:05:08] You could take BZ and put him right into Oliver Stone's Wall Street I think and he would fit right in.

[1:05:13] He's got the hair slicked back, the whole thing going on.

Dan McCoy

[1:05:17] Well, guys, much like Santa Claus, we get letters.

[1:05:22] Unlike Santa Claus.

[1:05:24] Yeah.

[1:05:24] They aren't asking for ponies or Xboxes or –

[1:05:29] Yep.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:29] That's the plural of Xboxes is – to kind of hesitantly say is this at the end.

Dan McCoy

[1:05:35] Well, I was going to add a number, but then I was like, I don't know.

[1:05:38] I'm not sure.

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:40] What the current version?

[1:05:41] Yeah, is it five?

[1:05:42] I don't know what the Xbox is.

[1:05:44] It's the PlayStation 5.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:45] Yeah, but Dan, I guess what you're saying is it's the most letterful time of the year.

[1:05:52] Everyone's mailing the letters and it's too bad it takes so long for us to get to the letters you sent us.

[1:06:01] Maybe they'll be relevant to this time of the year, but possibly not this year.

[1:06:08] It's the most letterful time of the decade.

[1:06:13] Hey, remember the 90s when people started emailing letters fellow?

[1:06:18] But now they're back.

[1:06:20] Letters are back on the show.

[1:06:23] It's the most letterful time of the eon.

[1:06:28] Dinosaurs didn't send so many letters those days and neither did mollusks.

[1:06:33] But in this time, geologically speaking, this blink of an eye in the face of the cosmos, it's the most letterful time there's ever been.

[1:06:44] I guess the invention of writing was really what made it possible for this to be the most letterful time of the eon, right?

Dan McCoy

[1:06:50] Yeah.

[1:06:51] Yep.

[1:06:53] So this letter goes like this.

[1:06:57] Don't ever change, Elliot.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:58] Oh, thanks.

[1:06:59] I can't.

[1:06:59] It's impossible.

[1:07:00] I've tried.

Dan McCoy

[1:07:01] Following in the tradition of generations of Jews before her, my daughter is entertaining the goyim during the Christmas season.

[1:07:09] In particular, she is performing in a local production of A Christmas Carol.

[1:07:14] She's never seen any of the movie adaptations.

[1:07:17] Which one do you recommend?

[1:07:19] Flop, bless us everyone.

[1:07:21] Stage mom, last name withheld.

[1:07:23] I assume that we'll probably have similar answers.

[1:07:28] Scrooged.

[1:07:28] Oh, I was going to say the Alistair Sim one is kind of generally accepted to be the best one.

[1:07:36] But if your daughter is of an age.

[1:07:38] You're going to say the Muppet Christmas Carol, huh?

[1:07:40] Well, yeah.

[1:07:41] I'm saying if she's of an age that she does not like to watch old movies.

[1:07:48] I mean, I liked old movies as a kid, but a lot of kids don't.

[1:07:52] I mean, kids love Alistair Sim is also part of it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:56] They love green for danger.

[1:07:58] They love all that stuff.

[1:07:59] School for scoundrels.

[1:08:00] What were you saying, Stuart?

[1:08:02] Scrooged.

[1:08:02] Scrooged with Bill Murray and Carol Kane.

Stuart Wellington

[1:08:04] Scrooged with Bill Murray.

[1:08:04] Okay.

[1:08:05] Yeah.

[1:08:05] That's the best one.

[1:08:06] It's got monsters in it.

[1:08:09] I mean, they all kind of have monsters.

[1:08:10] They all have ghosts.

[1:08:11] Yeah, but this one has, what's his name?

[1:08:14] Buster Poindexter, what's his name?

[1:08:16] Yeah, Buster Poindexter, yeah.

[1:08:17] From the New York Dolls.

[1:08:19] Yeah.

[1:08:20] Double thumbs up.

[1:08:20] I don't know what your problem is.

[1:08:24] Any other suggestions?

Elliott Kalan

[1:08:26] I mean.

[1:08:27] I mean.

[1:08:28] What did you say, Alonzo?

[1:08:28] No, Alonzo, you're literally the.

Alonso Duralde

[1:08:30] You wrote the book.

[1:08:31] You wrote the book on Christmas movies, so.

[1:08:33] I mean, Dan is right.

[1:08:34] The Alistair Sim version, I think, for the most part, is pretty much everybody's favorite and is considered to be one of the best ones.

[1:08:40] But if you're looking for a more recent one than that, although obviously for anybody younger than me, this is an old movie.

[1:08:47] The 1984 made-for-TV version with George C. Scott is pretty great.

[1:08:52] He's a really good Scrooge, and it pretty much covers most of the bases from the original story.

[1:08:57] And I'm personally a fan of the 1970s Scrooge with Albert Finney.

[1:09:03] It's a musical version.

[1:09:04] Songs actually written by and screenplay written by Leslie Brickus, who co-wrote the terrible songs in Santa Claus the movie.

[1:09:12] Oh.

[1:09:12] But don't hold that against Scrooge.

[1:09:15] And it's going to be on Criterion Channel in December.

[1:09:18] But, yeah, I think those are probably my favorite ones.

[1:09:21] I'm trying to think of, like, a recent-ish one that is pretty true.

[1:09:25] I mean, you could do the Patrick Stewart one from the late 90s, I guess.

[1:09:30] But it's a little dark.

[1:09:32] I didn't see that FX one.

[1:09:33] I tried a couple times.

[1:09:34] It's just too much for me.

[1:09:36] And I've heard people find it to be excessively grim, the Guy Pearce in old man makeup, to bring it back to that.

[1:09:43] Hell, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:44] It's the only way he does it now.

[1:09:45] He only appears in old man makeup or having sex with Kate Winslet.

[1:09:48] That's the only way he appears in things now.

[1:09:51] So, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:09:52] And that was a show where he got to play his actual age.

[1:09:54] I thought that was pretty cool.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:55] Yeah.

[1:09:55] I mean, because usually he wears old age makeup and all of this stuff.

[1:09:58] Uh-huh.

Stuart Wellington

[1:09:58] Yep.

[1:09:58] They let him pull off all that makeup.

[1:10:00] They de-letto-fied him.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:04] Well, I wonder my kids – so I think sometimes about how different my kids' media viewing habits is than mine was.

[1:10:13] Where we live in a streaming world.

[1:10:15] They can watch whatever show they want whenever they want.

[1:10:17] And they're not at the mercies of network scheduling.

[1:10:20] So when I was a kid, even as a Jewish kid, it was like I was bombarded with so much Christmas stuff.

[1:10:26] And I felt like every sitcom did their version of A Christmas Carol.

[1:10:29] And it was either A Christmas Carol or It's a Wonderful Life.

[1:10:31] Every sitcom did their version of that.

[1:10:34] And I wonder if – I don't think my kids – by their age, I think I had seen 400,000 adaptations of A Christmas Carol.

[1:10:42] And I don't think they've seen anything.

[1:10:43] Any – maybe they've seen A Muppet Christmas Carol.

[1:10:46] But the – I might have to introduce it to them because even though I don't care for Christmas, it's got lots of ghosts in it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:10:51] Do you ever have to write like letters to Santa Claus in school and shit?

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:56] Not in school.

[1:10:58] Okay.

[1:10:58] The closest I can think of as that was that in preschool, around Easter time, there was a thing where everyone was supposed to like color in pictures of Easter baskets with different eggs.

[1:11:06] And they were like, well, you're Jewish.

[1:11:07] So we'll find something else for you to color in.

[1:11:09] And I was like, but I can like color eggs.

[1:11:11] Like I don't – it's not – I mean we have eggs.

[1:11:14] We just – I would celebrate Easter.

[1:11:15] But Jews do have eggs, you know.

[1:11:17] How else would you make a blintz?

[1:11:20] Yeah, exactly.

[1:11:21] Thank you.

[1:11:21] But I feel like there was such a – you could not escape Christmas when we were younger.

[1:11:27] Whereas now I feel like it's – because of the way media has fractured, it's very escapable, you know.

[1:11:33] Interesting.

Dan McCoy

[1:11:35] Well, let's go to this uncontroversial next letter titled, Elliot Kalin doesn't know anything about Star Wars.

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:44] All right.

[1:11:44] Fucking get him.

[1:11:44] Sick burn.

[1:11:45] That is the sickest burn.

Dan McCoy

[1:11:47] Oh, man.

[1:11:48] Well, let's –

[1:11:48] Dearest floppers, I've enjoyed your show for many years and it's been a real pleasure to listen to three friends chat about nonsense while I clean the house.

[1:11:57] I almost wrote in once before when Stuart explained the entirety of the Saw franchise for obvious reasons.

[1:12:04] See my full name below.

[1:12:06] Let's look at –

[1:12:07] Jigsaw, last name of hell.

[1:12:09] Yeah, yeah.

[1:12:10] Yeah.

[1:12:13] Jigsaw McGraw, you know.

[1:12:14] Yeah.

[1:12:17] As a side note, I think there was an actual moment in that one where Stuart couldn't remember the name of the character Mark Hoffman, which is insane on several levels.

[1:12:24] I don't know why that's insane.

[1:12:25] I don't know, man.

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:26] Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:28] Let's – okay.

[1:12:29] Here's the main meat of the –

[1:12:31] Yeah, let's do it.

[1:12:32] Argument.

[1:12:33] Let's see.

[1:12:34] So if I didn't write in then, why would I write in now?

[1:12:37] Because of my shock on hearing the most recent episode of The Flophouse, episode 356, The Very Excellent Mr. Dundee, to find that Elliot Kalin, who has claimed to know about Star Wars, appears to have only been faking it the whole time.

[1:12:51] Memorizing fourth tier character names does not count as knowledge, Elliot.

[1:12:55] That's just trivia.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:57] So what is it – what is the thing that I – what is the thing I got wrong about Star Wars?

[1:13:01] Keeping in mind I have so many things I have to keep on my mind these days.

Dan McCoy

[1:13:05] Imagine my shock when Elliot stated that Darth Vader was wasting his time chasing Princess Leia through her spaceship when he had just blown her up.

[1:13:14] Why did he do it, Elliot?

[1:13:15] To find out the location of the rebel base.

[1:13:18] That is the whole point of one of the most famous scenes of the movie where Grand Moff Tarkin forces the confession out of her by threatening to blow up Alderaan.

[1:13:26] If he had just killed her, he would not have gotten that vital piece of information.

[1:13:29] If that's not enough, later in the same episode, Elliot claims that the movie takes place over the course of a few days.

[1:13:36] Elliot, how long do you think it takes to travel from one planet to another?

[1:13:40] As a rule, in Star Wars, the Millennium Falcon is considered the fastest known ship, but even the Falcon going at top speed would take a few days to make from Tatooine to Alderaan.

[1:13:50] More importantly, the Death Star itself is much –

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:53] There's literally nothing in the movie to support that reading.

[1:13:56] There's nothing in the movie to support the reading, and it takes them more than a day to get there.

[1:14:01] More –

[1:14:01] What about the Star Wars official zoo books?

[1:14:04] More importantly, continuing the conversation that they had at the beginning.

Dan McCoy

[1:14:07] More importantly, the Death Star itself is much slower.

[1:14:11] It only has a Class 4 hyperdrive compared to the Millennium Falcon's Class 0.5.

[1:14:16] That's all explained in movie.

[1:14:18] For practical purposes, this means that even if the distance between the shattered remains of Alderaan and Yavin are the same as Alderaan and Tatooine,

[1:14:27] and it only took the Falcon a few days to get there, we would have taken the Death Star eight times as long,

[1:14:32] and they would have been able to only start traveling once the signal from the tracking beacon made it back to the Death Star in unknown duration of time.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:40] Maybe I'll say this.

[1:14:41] Maybe I got thrown off by the fact that everyone only has one set of clothes to the point that when Han Solo returns as an old man,

[1:14:47] he is wearing the same outfit that he wore in this movie.

[1:14:51] But there's no evidence on screen to make us believe that time has passed.

[1:14:56] This is a movie that very clearly uses wipes to suggest the passage of time and does not really do that so much in those scenes.

[1:15:03] But also, when Darth Vader is going after Princess Leia, they're just trying to get the plans to the Death Star.

[1:15:09] The only reason they care about the Rebel base is because they've got the Death Star plans, right?

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:16] Maybe not, actually.

[1:15:17] Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

[1:15:19] I kind of stopped paying attention.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:22] Look, this is signed to Mark Total Badass, last name without.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:26] But I guess it is true that Princess Leia being the only Rebel who leaves home to go do anything,

[1:15:34] which they would have to ask her where the base is because there's no other Rebels in the universe that we see.

Alonso Duralde

[1:15:41] I just want to go on the record and say very clearly that I don't know anything about Star Wars.

[1:15:46] I don't know why you'd make that choice.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:48] You could get into arguments like this.

[1:15:50] Anybody wants to come at me, you're right.

Alonso Duralde

[1:15:52] I don't know anything.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:53] How long it takes for a fictional spaceship to get from one fictional planet to another fictional planet.

[1:15:58] Especially when we've been shown in the movie that that spaceship has the ability to jump through hyperdrive from one planet to another very easily.

[1:16:05] Yeah.

[1:16:07] But anyway, he makes a good point.

[1:16:08] I don't know anything about Star Wars.

Stuart Wellington

[1:16:10] I don't know why Elliot's getting so fucking defensive here.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:11] I actually don't know why either.

[1:16:12] Take your lumps.

[1:16:13] That's what I'm saying.

[1:16:14] I just got to do it.

[1:16:16] I just got to take those lumps.

[1:16:17] That's true.

[1:16:18] Suck it up, dude.

[1:16:18] I think what it is is that this is.

[1:16:20] Lumps are delicious.

[1:16:21] What it shows me is there's nothing I will ever have a complete enough command of that someone will not be able to be like, oh, what about this thing?

[1:16:29] And I'll be like, oh, I didn't think I cared about this.

[1:16:31] But now suddenly I do.

Alonso Duralde

[1:16:33] Can they break down the whole licks to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop controversy?

[1:16:38] Because I really need some answers there.

[1:16:40] Well, the thing is.

[1:16:41] Well, right in.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:41] There's no – it's not within the canon commercial.

[1:16:45] But if you read the novelizations, you see that there's a lot more going on with the licks.

[1:16:49] That in owl cultures, a bite counts as a lick.

[1:16:54] So – but it's a special extra lick you get after the third lick, which doesn't count as a lick.

[1:16:58] Anyway, that's just owls.

Stuart Wellington

[1:16:59] Who did that novelization?

[1:17:00] Was it R.A. Salvatore?

Elliott Kalan

[1:17:01] It was Alan Dean Foster and he's still arguing with Disney about getting much royalty payments for it, which is disgusting on their part.

[1:17:08] So, Dan, any other letters challenging me on the biggest nonsense possible?

Dan McCoy

[1:17:15] No, no.

[1:17:16] No more nonsense letters.

[1:17:18] So let's close up the mailbag.

[1:17:20] You know what?

Elliott Kalan

[1:17:20] I rescind my song.

[1:17:22] Forget it.

[1:17:23] I'm rescinding my song.

[1:17:24] It's no longer the most letterful time of the eon or year.

[1:17:27] Forget it.

Dan McCoy

[1:17:30] Hey, let's recommend some movies that you might want to watch instead of this piece of garbage.

[1:17:37] No, it's got its moments.

Elliott Kalan

[1:17:40] No, Dan, don't worry.

[1:17:41] You don't have to defend – you don't have to soft pedal about –

Dan McCoy

[1:17:44] I suddenly just felt bad for John Lithgow.

Elliott Kalan

[1:17:47] Don't be.

[1:17:48] He got paid for it.

[1:17:49] He's doing fine.

[1:17:51] If this was his last role, but he's had a long career, he does all sorts of stuff.

Alonso Duralde

[1:17:55] He says when he goes to England, this is the movie that people tell him they love him in.

[1:17:59] Oh, wow.

[1:18:00] Yeah, go figure.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:02] I imagine that's why he played Winston Churchill on The Crown.

[1:18:05] He was like, I am going to make England think of other things about me.

Alonso Duralde

[1:18:09] I mean he's giving a panto performance.

[1:18:11] I think that's the best defense you can do for what he's doing here.

[1:18:13] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:14] I think he's giving exactly the performance that a movie called Santa Claus the movie is calling for in its villain.

Dan McCoy

[1:18:22] I would like to recommend – a couple days ago I left the house.

[1:18:28] I went out.

[1:18:29] I saw Licorice Pizza, the new Pete Sanderson movie.

[1:18:32] Ooh, delicious.

[1:18:35] It is – it's a movie that is, despite being in many ways the simplest story, very hard to describe.

[1:18:47] Like it is filled with loosely connected incidents and it is mostly dependent on mood.

[1:18:56] And it feels totally unpredictable while not doing anything particularly crazy at any point.

[1:19:04] But it just feels organic.

[1:19:05] It's a nice vibe to hang out in.

[1:19:09] I don't know.

[1:19:10] It's a movie that kind of is like made me think like, oh, yeah, movies can be like this.

[1:19:14] They can do this thing too.

[1:19:18] And I enjoy it.

[1:19:19] I mean it has depictions of like racism and it has like romance kind of between a 15-year-old boy and a 25-year-old woman.

[1:19:39] But not really like a full-fledged romance.

[1:19:42] But like –

[1:19:43] Keep rationalizing.

[1:19:44] No, I'm just –

[1:19:45] I think you're still on base, Dan.

[1:19:47] I just want to highlight these things in case these are things that viewers are sensitive to.

[1:19:52] Okay.

[1:19:54] But I don't think that the movie is – I don't know.

[1:19:57] The movie is great.

[1:19:59] Okay.

[1:19:59] I just want to make sure that people are informed if they –

[1:20:02] Yeah.

[1:20:03] If that's something that would bother them.

[1:20:05] But I really loved it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:20:08] Can't wait to see it.

[1:20:08] I'm going to recommend two quick reviews that you can find at your local video store.

[1:20:14] Just go to the blank of the blank section.

[1:20:16] The first one is Blade of the Immortal.

[1:20:19] It is the somewhat recent live-action adaptation of the popular manga directed by the one, the only, Takeshi Miyege.

[1:20:28] Hell yeah, baby.

[1:20:30] And it is like two and a half hours long, but it feels like it goes super fast.

[1:20:36] I read the comics like back in like high school and I loved them.

[1:20:41] And it was kind of fun remembering those and seeing how well like elements from those stories were all kind of crammed together in this movie.

[1:20:50] And of course Takeshi Miyege found like the wackiest, creepiest characters from the book and made sure that they looked exactly like that in the movie.

[1:20:58] And it's got a great score.

[1:21:00] It's just great.

[1:21:01] I highly recommend it if you like samurai stuff.

[1:21:04] And the other movie I'm going to recommend is Climate of the Hunter from director Mickey Reese.

[1:21:09] It is this little micro budget thriller about two women who are living at like a vacation property.

[1:21:18] And they are their sisters and they're catching up and they are catching up with an old friend.

[1:21:23] And there's a lot of tension and there's a feeling that somebody could be a vampire.

[1:21:29] Uh-oh.

[1:21:30] But the costumes are great and the performances are all really fun.

[1:21:33] And it's nice and short.

[1:21:35] Climate of the Hunter.

[1:21:36] Thumbs up.

Alonso Duralde

[1:21:37] You can also get sort of the valiant out of that section, but we wouldn't necessarily recommend that.

[1:21:41] Yeah.

[1:21:43] And Land of the Lost.

[1:21:46] I'm blurbed on the back of the DVD of Land of the Lost.

[1:21:49] Wow.

[1:21:49] What did you say?

[1:21:50] What did they blurb you?

[1:21:51] I don't even remember.

[1:21:52] It was like it was the most sort of like it's kind of fun.

[1:21:55] Like it was not a rave review, but apparently they were so desperate for anybody to say anything positive.

[1:22:00] They're like they got to me somehow.

Dan McCoy

[1:22:02] So it's one of these like just fun in quotes.

[1:22:05] Kind of.

[1:22:05] Yeah, yeah.

[1:22:06] It's very, very short.

Alonso Duralde

[1:22:08] Dot, dot, dot, dot.

[1:22:09] Fun.

[1:22:10] There's no verb in there if I recall correctly.

Elliott Kalan

[1:22:15] I'm recommending – I think there might be possibly a theme to what Alonzo and I are going to recommend possibly if we had talked about it earlier somewhat.

[1:22:25] We're recording this just a few days after the death of Stephen Sondheim, who you're probably familiar with.

[1:22:30] If you're not, then it's – then you have a real treat in store for you in looking at his work.

[1:22:36] It's hard to think of someone who's involved in the American theater and especially the American musical theater who was like more amazing in the breadth and quality of his work and more important, especially in the second half of the 20th century.

[1:22:49] And so I wanted to recommend a very short movie because it was meant to be the pilot for a TV series that never happened that's on Criterion Channel right now, which is called Original Cast Album Company, where it's directed by D.A. Pennebaker.

[1:23:01] And you know what that means?

[1:23:02] It's a documentary with no voiceover and you just got to watch the footage and figure out how it goes together.

[1:23:07] He's a real puzzle master.

[1:23:09] That's why they used to call him Puzzle Master Pennebaker.

[1:23:10] And so he also used to sell rolls for a penny, which is also why they call him D.A. Pennebaker.

[1:23:17] And he never knew the answers to anything.

[1:23:19] That's why they call him Don't Ask Pennebaker.

[1:23:21] Anyway, so he took his camera crew in to watch the recording of the original cast album for the show Company, which is one of Stephen Sondheim's big shows.

[1:23:34] And very much one of the first musicals to be about like real unhappy things that people go through.

[1:23:42] And it's just really amazing to watch people, watch the performers having to perform these songs full tilt in a room with no audience because it's a recording studio and over and over again until the takes are good enough to be on.

[1:23:55] They keep saying this is the permanent record.

[1:23:57] This is the permanent record.

[1:23:57] This has got to be the best take you can do of it.

[1:24:00] And the highlight being watching Elaine Stritch, who is dressed like Mr. B. Natural from the Mystery Science Theater short, Mr. B. Natural, struggling and then finally nailing one of the songs in it.

[1:24:12] And seeing what's amazing in it to me, watching it this time because I was just re-watching it last night, is seeing Stephen Sondheim, who for a decade, my entire life has been basically like the old man of American musical theater and like an institution.

[1:24:25] Seeing him when he was trying something new and was still somewhat not more – still somewhat the young guy who had written the lyrics for West Side Story and Gypsy not too long before.

[1:24:37] And was now very – and is very adamant with the performers about how he wants it done because this is his career and this is what he's trying to do and who knows if it's going to work or not.

[1:24:46] So seeing this guy who is now an institution at a time when he was still not struggling necessarily but creatively pushing was really interesting and inspiring to me.

[1:24:58] So that's Original Cast Album Company.

Alonso Duralde

[1:25:01] And if that documentary sounds vaguely familiar to you because maybe you saw the Documentary Now parody version, which was Original Cast Album Co-op, if you buy the Blu-ray that Criterion has put out of this movie, it includes the Documentary Now episode and an interview with all the people who wrote and performed that and a new interview within the last year or two with Sondheim himself.

[1:25:25] So as always, I'm about to push the physical media.

[1:25:28] Like it's worth hanging on to if you're a fan of this stuff because it's got a lot of goodies.

[1:25:32] And yeah, mine is also Sondheim related and is also relatively new on Blu-ray.

[1:25:38] Warner Archive Collection just put out The Last of Sheila, which Sondheim's career obviously as a genius in the musical theater unparalleled.

[1:25:47] But he also really loves sort of puzzles and kind of, you know, would put together these really elaborate sort of scavenger hunts and games at parties for friends.

[1:25:57] And he and Anthony Perkins wrote this incredible mystery about a group of Hollywood types, a producer, director, writer, the writer's rich wife, a starlet, her volatile husband, and an agent who all spend a vacation on the producer's yacht in the Riviera.

[1:26:17] They were all present when the producer's wife, Sheila, died one year earlier.

[1:26:21] And the producer has set up these very complicated games that he thinks is maybe going to sort of suss out who the actual killer is.

[1:26:27] And then things go in a totally off the rails direction.

[1:26:31] But it is funny and really like wonderfully complex and complicated the way a good sort of mystery puzzle game is.

[1:26:39] And it's the kind of movie where, frankly, you'll forget between viewings who the killer even is.

[1:26:44] And so it's all fun to watch over again.

[1:26:46] But the performances are great.

[1:26:47] It's like James Coburn and James Mason and Diane Cannon doing basically a Sue Mengers impersonation, if you know who she was.

[1:26:55] Hollywood super agent of the 70s.

[1:26:57] It was a riot.

[1:26:57] Richard Benjamin, Raquel Welch, Ian McShane, Joan Hackett.

[1:27:02] One of my favorite movies, a movie that Rian Johnson has talked a lot about as being one of the inspirations for Knives Out.

[1:27:08] And you can now get it on Blu-ray and you should, The Last of Sheila.

Stuart Wellington

[1:27:12] You posted a picture, like a caricature of all those characters.

Alonso Duralde

[1:27:17] Yeah, Al Hirschfeld did it when the movie came out.

[1:27:19] And I had never seen that caricature until after Sondheim died.

[1:27:22] I was like, oh my God, because it's one of my favorite movies.

[1:27:25] And somehow I'd never seen that photo before.

Elliott Kalan

[1:27:27] One of the first challenges in that that he sets before him, the first puzzles I find so stressful.

[1:27:33] And I kept watching that movie.

[1:27:34] I'm just like, oh, if this puzzle was set before me.

[1:27:37] And I think it's the first one maybe.

[1:27:39] I would have just been like, forget it.

[1:27:40] I can't do this.

[1:27:41] I'm just going to hang out on the boat.

[1:27:42] Like I can't.

[1:27:43] This is too complicated for me.

[1:27:45] But it's a super fun movie.

Dan McCoy

[1:27:49] Well, speaking of super fun movies, not this one, but we had a super fun guest.

[1:27:58] How about that for a segue?

[1:27:59] Wow.

[1:28:00] Oh, hell yeah.

[1:28:00] You were the king.

[1:28:02] Oh, wow.

[1:28:02] That was a segue, yeah.

[1:28:04] Alonso, do you have anything you want to plug?

[1:28:05] He just takes your hand and walks you to where he wants you to go.

Elliott Kalan

[1:28:09] Call him Dean Kamen because he is inventing the segue.

Alonso Duralde

[1:28:12] I need to plug Dan McCoy's famous podcaster school or I can learn moves like that.

Elliott Kalan

[1:28:19] Well, we've certainly gone from A to Z and A is also the letter that starts our guest name.

[1:28:25] A to BZ.

Alonso Duralde

[1:28:28] Yes, I have a new book out, as Elliot mentioned, at the top of the show.

[1:28:31] I'll Be Home for Christmas Movies.

[1:28:32] I co-wrote it with the very funny guys over at the Deck the Hallmark podcast.

[1:28:36] It's got reviews of more than 100 Hallmark Christmas movies.

[1:28:40] But from the point of view of three guys who one of them loves them, one of them likes them, one of them despises them.

[1:28:44] So however you feel about those films, somebody in the book will have your back.

[1:28:48] Also recipes on how to throw your own Hallmark Christmas party, bingo cards, a lot of other fun stuff.

[1:28:55] I'm really proud of it and happy with how it came out.

[1:28:58] I think it's a great gift if you have somebody in your life who's super into Hallmark stuff or likes to dunk on Hallmark movies.

[1:29:03] I think they'd get a kick out of it.

[1:29:05] And then I also wrote a book a while back that you can still get called Have Yourself a Movie Little Christmas,

[1:29:10] which is a guidebook to more films like Santa Claus the movie, but also everything from Elf to Eyes Wide Shut

[1:29:18] in terms of films that are set at Christmas that deal with Christmas.

[1:29:21] So that's still out there in the world.

[1:29:24] And then, yeah, I write for The Wrap.

[1:29:26] I'm the film reviews editor there.

[1:29:27] And I have quite a few podcasts.

[1:29:30] Linoleum Knife with my husband, Dave White, here on the Maximum Fun Network.

[1:29:34] You can hear me on Maximum Film with Ify Wadaway, Andrea Clark, and, of course, Breakfast All Day with Christy Lemire and Matt Achity.

[1:29:40] If you used to listen to me on a show called What the Flick, we're now doing it under the name Breakfast All Day.

[1:29:46] So please check us out there.

[1:29:48] And, yeah, I'm just always delighted to be on the show.

[1:29:52] Longtime fan.

[1:29:53] And y'all are always just a blast to hang out with.

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:56] Oh, thanks.

[1:29:56] Well, you're always a great guest.

[1:29:58] We love having you.

[1:29:59] Those are all great podcasts that I would say you should check out.

[1:30:01] I'm a particular fan of Linoleum Knife.

[1:30:03] That's a favorite of mine.

Stuart Wellington

[1:30:05] This is one of our newer traditions, and I'm a big fan of it.

[1:30:09] Thank you for coming out.

Elliott Kalan

[1:30:10] We just hope Dudley Moore comes out with a Christmas movie next year.

[1:30:13] So we can.

[1:30:13] Singers crossed.

Dan McCoy

[1:30:14] Or L time screwed.

[1:30:15] Yeah.

[1:30:17] But while we are thanking folks, let's thank Alex Smith.

[1:30:23] Oh, look at.

[1:30:24] Still got it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:30:25] Look at Thankenstein's monster over here.

Dan McCoy

[1:30:27] Just with the segues.

[1:30:28] Yeah.

[1:30:28] Alex Smith, our producer.

[1:30:31] Hell yeah.

[1:30:31] Thank you for all the work you do.

[1:30:35] Last week we did a mini where Stu ran us through a role-playing game where we were cartoon dogs,

[1:30:41] and Alex went above and beyond.

[1:30:43] Oh, yeah.

[1:30:44] Sound effects and music and a new range for the theme song.

[1:30:50] Thank you to Maximum Fun.

[1:30:52] They have one of Alonzo's shows.

[1:30:56] They've got a bunch of other great shows.

[1:30:58] Go over to MaximumFun.org to check them out.

[1:31:02] But now, for the Flophouse, I've been Dan McCoy.

Stuart Wellington

[1:31:06] I'm still Stuart Wellington.

[1:31:07] I'm Elliot Kalin.

[1:31:09] Oh, and I'm Alonzo Dralde.

[1:31:11] Yes.

[1:31:13] Bye.

Dan McCoy

[1:31:22] I guess I'll just do the intro.

Elliott Kalan

[1:31:27] Why not?

[1:31:27] Sure.

[1:31:28] I don't.

[1:31:29] Unless.

[1:31:29] I guess.

[1:31:30] Does anyone.

[1:31:31] Unless anyone here objects.

[1:31:32] Like, speak now or forever hold your peace?

[1:31:36] Yeah.

[1:31:37] Okay.

[1:31:39] MaximumFun.org.

S6

[1:31:41] Comedy and culture.

[1:31:42] Artist owned.

[1:31:43] Audience supported.

Ep. #357 - Santa Claus: The Movie, with Alonso Duralde

Transcript

In this episode

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