Ep. #357 - Santa Claus: The Movie, with Alonso Duralde

[0:00] On this episode we discuss Santa Claus the movie not to be confused with Santa Claus the sandwich

[0:10] Perfect love it

[0:30] Hey everyone, welcome to the flop house. I'm Dan McCoy. Whoa rolling right in it's me Stuart Wellington and rolling on over

[0:45] It's Elliot Kalin and we've got a special guest with us today. That's right joining us as he now does every year

[0:52] I'm gonna say as our holiday Dudley Moore correspondent

[0:55] It's the esteemed and brilliant Alonzo Duralde a film reviews editor at the wrap

[1:00] Co-author of I'll be home for Christmas movies and an incredibly prolific podcast host. He'll talk about those more later on Alonzo

[1:07] thanks so much for joining us and continuing on the

[1:09] The Dudley Moore holidays beat I've delighted to be back. I think this might be the only other Dudley Moore Christmas movie

[1:16] So I guess goodbye everybody

[1:19] We'll get him to make some more

[1:25] But I want Dudley Moore you're saying I'm gonna get Dudley less

[1:29] In a way from a certain perspective

[1:35] Yeah, I mean the last the last last year's also was a marginally holiday movie since it was really much more about a young girl

[1:42] A dying young girl trying to get her mom laid Dudley Moore. Yeah, where's this?

[1:45] This movie takes on one of the most Christmassy things. There is Santa Claus. It purports to be the movie

[1:53] Yeah

[1:55] Well name another one name another that's well that it was so funny because everyone who is asking me about this

[1:59] They're like what movie you're doing this time ago, Santa Claus the movie and they're like, yeah with Tim Allen

[2:03] I'm like, no, no. No, that's the Santa Claus

[2:10] And you have to imagine that for years they were like we got it there's no other Santa Claus the movie

[2:14] This is the only Santa Claus movie. They were wrong about that. There are other Santa Claus movies

[2:19] There's like that classic

[2:21] 1959 Mexican one that yeah a mystery science theater one Santa Claus just Santa Claus

[2:27] Colon the movie let it be known throughout the land you do you think they did that so that people look walking past the marquees

[2:32] Wouldn't think Santa was there making public appearances

[2:36] well, I mean that we will get into this but this is produced by the the Salkins Alexander and Ilya and

[2:43] They had just come off of the great success of Superman the movie

[2:47] So I think maybe the thought was like we own those two words

[2:50] And so when people see the movie, they're gonna know it's a Salkin joint that explains why they sued the makers of hot dog the movie

[2:59] On this on this note too, I want to say that this movie the director also did Supergirl which we

[3:06] Covered with Glenn Weldon if you want to check out other

[3:10] Podcasts about this directors work

[3:15] And was written by I mean we'll talk about this podcast as well

[3:17] But well if you should mention this this movie was written by David Newman who?

[3:21] Had a pretty good off with a bang started off with a pretty amazing career until Superman 2 and then it was like all

[3:27] Downhill as far as I could tell from there

[3:29] He went from writing Bonnie and Clyde and bad company, which is a really good underrated movie and what's up doc to writing like Sheena?

[3:36] Santa Claus the movie moonwalker, which is not really a movie like it's it's it's a video collection with it with

[3:44] Then he became a postal worker and he was always bothering Jerry Seinfeld, right? Yeah. Yeah

[3:48] Well, that's he was so he was so angry about his Hollywood career of crashing that

[3:52] Yeah, also had a line of salad dressings, but didn't really quite take off. Yeah. Yeah, but they were his own

[3:57] They were nobody else were absolutely as I said

[3:59] I'm tired of having my great screenplays ruined by producers these salad dressings won't have any meddling in them

[4:04] They're my own only

[4:06] You of course would put his face on the salad dressing and sometimes if the salad dressing had I don't know like a flavor

[4:12] That was not his from his culture. It would seem a little bit racist and you're like

[4:21] Problematic

[4:23] You wanted me to describe the the podcast? Yeah, let's say what are we doing this podcast?

[4:27] Other than just jump into Santa Claus the movie. This is a podcast where we watch a bad movie and then we talk about it

[4:33] I would say, you know

[4:36] 70 to 80 percent of the time a newer bad movie, but often when we have guests we like to you know

[4:43] Do their favorite movie of all time?

[4:48] Say like, you know follow their passions their expertise

[4:52] But take their passion and make it happen is what yeah exactly. So this is a this is from the mid 80s this one

[4:58] Because yes again, it starts Dudley Moore a man who's no longer with us. Yes. That's clue. Number one. Yeah in blues clues

[5:06] It also stars David Huddleston who is alive and well, oh, I'm so sorry. No

[5:13] Has anything happened to John Lithgow? Is he okay? I know he's fine. He is alive and shit-talking this movie as well

[5:19] He should

[5:21] Although I'll just he is I feel like the one thing he comes that I he comes out of this movie looking good

[5:26] And I feel like David Huddleston does too. Like yeah, he's just he's just Santa Claus and he's just doing Santa Claus things

[5:32] In the pantheon of screen Santa's I could say what you will about this movie and we're about to for the next hour

[5:37] But David Huddleston is Santa Inc his heart out. Yeah

[5:41] Who you may know as the big Lebowski the the the angry older Lebowski

[5:47] Who who yells at Jeff Bridges and throws him out of his office? Really? Yeah. Yeah

[5:53] You know grumpy guys make great Santa's Paul Giamatti and for Santa's Ed Asner over and over and over again

[5:59] So, you know, I think the I think the the jolly and the are like really co-existent in the great act

[6:05] Yeah, it's the it's the yin and yang of Santa's is the is they're equally both gruff and lovable, you know, David Huddleston

[6:11] You may remember also from Blazing Saddles. He's the one who says oh blow it out your ass Howard

[6:16] Says, you know Nietzsche says that if chaos comes order blow it out your ass Howard. Anyway, so

[6:22] This this movie it stars those big-name stars

[6:26] I was just reading right here that there were a lot of bigger name stars

[6:29] So we're hoping to land for this movie, but maybe I'll bring that casting possible possibilities up as we get to their roles

[6:36] Okay, so the movie begins with the title hell. Yeah, and then we have ten minutes of staring at a boring sky

[6:42] Christmas music playing in the background

[6:45] Eventually, it pans down to the planet Earth and we hear a voiceover from a granny introducing kind of the concept

[6:51] I feel like the North Pole and like gift-giving or some shit. Yeah, she's talking about also

[6:57] There's little people who live at the North Pole called Vendigums and almost instantly when we meet them

[7:01] They go we prefer to be called elves. It was like so why are we wasting all this time with Vendigum Stan?

[7:06] Yeah, and also this I mean, it's very clear that this comes from

[7:11] People who were involved in these Superman movies like from the like this feels like

[7:17] They're like, oh, what's another superhero out in the world?

[7:21] They're like superhero that we don't have to pay for

[7:26] That's a public domain hero. Dracula Tarzan. We'll look into it. No Tarzan is not available

[7:31] But it starts with the sky and then launches into an origin story

[7:35] Also the thing that I loved about about this is knowing that like so the Salkinds who made this were Jewish or at least the

[7:41] Dad of the two was it so that it's very much like all right

[7:45] We're making a Santa Claus movie not something we have personal experience with so let's let's figure it out. What's our explanation?

[7:52] Yeah, so the the granny is their granny looks a little bit like Rosemary Harris is

[7:59] Explaining the story to a bunch of bored urchins

[8:02] Who were sitting around in a big cabin with their parents and this is like the Middle Ages. This is a long

[8:07] Yeah, yeah

[8:08] and then

[8:08] Like a Santa like guy

[8:11] shows up on a sleigh pulled by a pair of reindeer and he gives the kids a bunch of toys that are basically just like

[8:17] Statues that he's carved and the kids are clearly kind of bummed that it isn't like a Funko pop or some shit

[8:23] They're like, oh look, there's all there's no points of articulation on this and he's like, we don't have ball-bearing technology yet. I

[8:30] Can't play Animal Crossing on this

[8:34] How collectible is this should I keep it in the package?

[8:38] So this dude, mr

[8:40] Klaus and his gal go on a snowy sleigh ride

[8:43] While torturing his reindeer and then the reindeer collapse and then they all basically decide they're gonna die and the snow covers their lifeless bodies

[8:52] The sleigh will be their headstone the ground their tomb. Yeah, this is like seven minutes into the movie and

[8:59] Santa Claus is essentially dying. So he may be reborn but still as yeah as Christian teaching tells us Santa

[9:05] Died only to be reborn

[9:07] Well, and later on he's referred to as the Chosen One, which is

[9:11] Crazy

[9:12] Well and heaven knows there's no mention of Jesus in this story so they could total sort of merge those two legends

[9:18] Willy nilly as it were it's they go they go to such lengths to D

[9:23] Religify Christmas, which is a very religious holiday as far as I can tell and they they like there's no mention of Jesus and throughout

[9:30] The movie they keep going all children everywhere love Christmas on this night. Every child in the world will get a toy

[9:36] I'll visit all of them and it's like that's not if it we know that's not the case like no

[9:42] We know Santa is pretty hard right on this and is not interested in giving to kids outside of his community, you know

[9:49] But they really want to make it universal. Everybody loves Santa Claus and it's a universal picture. So why not?

[9:54] So Santa his wife and the reindeer are raised from the dead

[10:00] tri-star picture. Sorry guys. There's no excuse.

[10:03] It's a tri-star. The Trinity. Yeah, the tri-star is the father, the son, and Santa.

[10:06] Yeah. And also their logo is a flying equestrian animal. That's true. Yeah, it's

[10:11] Pegasus.

[10:11] Yeah. So a bunch of elves show up and

[10:15] the North Star rises them from the dead and then Dudley Moore's there

[10:18] and then they go to a new home that's like a magical workshop mansion.

[10:22] That's a good way to describe it, yeah.

[10:25] And how much time do you figure, Stuart, they spend just wandering

[10:29] the rooms of this in awe at everything they see? I will say I am impressed.

[10:33] Like, I like a big physical set. Like, I like a big physical set, and in this case

[10:37] a big physical set

[10:39] filled exclusively with dudes.

[10:42] I did make a, like, I made a beeline to

[10:46] Wikipedia to see what the budget on this was when I saw, like,

[10:50] the sets of the North Pole. Because it is, like, yeah, big giant sets

[10:55] of, like, and then later on there's a, they make a fake

[10:59] like machine that pumps out toys. It's very, like,

[11:03] Dr. Seuss-ian kind of thing. And I was like, this

[11:07] costs some money. There's a lot of elves. Yeah. And they all sleep in one big room like they're in a

[11:11] fucking TikTok house.

[11:12] And then they have, like, a next door hall that's basically their content

[11:17] creation workshop.

[11:18] Yeah, it's pretty much, yeah, an accelerator house. I just wonder, like, what are the

[11:22] closets that Santa's not allowed to open? Like, no, no, no, just not here.

[11:26] Well, Burgess Meredith shows up out of nowhere and we never see him again.

[11:29] So clearly they're keeping him somewhere.

[11:31] So Burgess Meredith is the old fucking wizard, right? With the crazy two-pronged beard.

[11:36] With the two-pronged beard that's so long that he has two elves holding the ends of his beard.

[11:40] Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like somebody out of a Shaw Brothers movie.

[11:43] Yeah, it looks like he should be on the cover of a Chemist album.

[11:45] I briefly was like, so wait, is this going to be like

[11:49] the previous Santa Claus that is, like,

[11:53] handing the mantle over? Because he's, like, bigger than all the other elves and he's got

[11:57] this big beard. But no, he's more of a John the Baptist figure who has, like, heralded

[12:02] the coming of Santa.

[12:03] Yeah, his character's listed in this cast list I'm looking at as Ancient Elf.

[12:07] Yeah, yeah. And he, and I mean, it also, it would be weird for him to be giving up this title

[12:12] because as soon as they get there, the elves tell Santa and his wife, Mrs. Claus, that both of you

[12:19] will live forever. A fucking chilling threat, apparently.

[12:24] You work for us now. It looks like we work for you, but you work for us.

[12:28] This whole thing is chilling. I don't understand why he doesn't react to it like a curse.

[12:34] Because the other thing is, like, he has to deliver toys to all the children, as we know,

[12:39] and they describe that the way this happens is, like, the night will just never end for him until

[12:45] he has completed his rounds. So that sounds horrifying.

[12:48] These are simple medieval wood carving folk. What do they know from destinies and eternities?

[12:54] I mean, the elves could explain to them, because of so much, you'll have toys for

[12:57] every child in the world, and that creates so much mass that the gravity well slows time around you.

[13:02] Einstein, and Ancient Elf could be like, Einstein will prove this someday,

[13:06] but you'll be up at the North Pole. You won't hear about that.

[13:09] Or has he already proven it? What does time even mean?

[13:12] Who knows? Time is meaningless to such as these. Also, Stuart,

[13:16] you mentioned that there's all dudes there made me imagine Mrs. Claus going to the elf doctor

[13:21] with, like, a menstrual problem, and the elf doctor is like, I don't know.

[13:28] We all reproduce through budding. A little elf just starts growing on us,

[13:33] and then it comes out as a big elf. I don't know.

[13:35] Santa needs all the time he can get, because he has to form deep friendships

[13:39] with the only two children in all of Manhattan. Exactly. Yeah.

[13:43] But I mean, Joe is the only living boy in New York.

[13:49] The other thing, like, time is elastic, I guess, on Christmas for Santa, but all other times,

[13:55] I guess it's passing normally. Yeah.

[13:57] So they're working like madmen all year. I just kept thinking about how if, like,

[14:02] time was elastic for me on Christmas, I would just, like, do my job so slowly.

[14:10] Yeah. Well, Dan, this is the difference between you and a beloved figure of folklore who

[14:16] lasts in their job for centuries and centuries, making children happy all over the world,

[14:19] you know, I guess, is they're always striving. They've got that ambition. They got to be the

[14:23] best, because as we learned from this movie, there is competition out there and they can't

[14:26] rest on their laurels. It's impossible. They can't even rest on Stan Laurel, which is too bad

[14:30] because he is truly one of the treasures of the cinema. Such a delight in everything he did.

[14:35] So we were introduced to we previously mentioned that Dudley Moore is in this. He's one of the

[14:41] elves. His name is Patch. Santa kind of gets to know him while Patch is taking care of the reindeer.

[14:46] Now, I like to read this as part of the Marvel continuity where Patch is what Wolverine calls

[14:50] himself when he's in Madripoor. So perhaps so perhaps Dudley Moore, when he's not doing a

[14:55] great job as an elf later, it's because he's busy with the X-Men off panel, you know, off screen.

[14:59] OK, that's cool. And also immortal.

[15:02] Well, I mean, he's immortal. He's Patch. He's real. He's a real gearhead, right?

[15:06] He's always trying to build new things. He's a tinkerer. Yeah.

[15:08] Well, yeah, I mean, he does machines, one might say.

[15:11] Exactly. He has a mind of metals and gears. We got that shit. There's a moment where he's like,

[15:18] here's my schematic for a clock that wakes you up. And then in the next scene,

[15:22] a fucking cuckoo clock wakes all the elves up. It's like, good one, tech bro. Way to sell us

[15:27] our own shit. I've got an idea. I'm going to disrupt bodegas. It's a box that goes in the

[15:34] lobby of buildings and you can put money in it and items come out. You mean a vending machine?

[15:39] That's your idea? Yeah, yeah. It's a totally new thing. I've changed the world.

[15:44] So we also we get to meet all the other reindeer. They're given names and personalities. They're

[15:50] awesome. It's a little bit of like getting a team together type shit.

[15:53] Can I read some of these names? Well, there's Puffy. There's Puffy. He's going to turn out

[15:57] to be Patch's kind of big competitor. But there are additional elves named Goober,

[16:02] Groot, Boog, Honka, Voot and Goobler. So both Goober and Goobler work at the North Pole.

[16:09] But they're always getting each other's mail. And I'm also it's a lot of wood up there. So

[16:13] I'm going to again read that Groot the elf is Groot from the Guardians of the Galaxy films.

[16:16] Yet another crossover between the MCU and the SCCU. That's the same.

[16:21] You're talking about elves and not the reindeer, right?

[16:23] No, you know, the name is a reindeer. It's Donald Blitzen and Dixon and stuff like that.

[16:29] So we're going to have a montage where the where we see all the elves working. They're like,

[16:34] you know, they're pretty synchronized. They design Santa's suit. They make presents.

[16:38] They use magic and stuff. It's pretty straightforward. Right. But it just takes

[16:42] a long time. Yeah. Yeah. And then the fun fact, sorry, they do give him a green suit in this

[16:46] movie, which Mrs. Claus says, no, no red. Actually, Santa did wear green in folklore forever

[16:52] until the Coca-Cola company decided otherwise. Wow. So they're kind of touching on, you know,

[16:58] and we'll get back to Coca-Cola later. And then how they will. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. The roof of

[17:03] the workshop opens up bathing this celebrating elves and blessed guiding moonlight. Hooray.

[17:09] Then the elves bring forward an old elf. We mentioned this guy before he

[17:13] was talking about a prophecy. So this role, apparently they wanted James Cagney to play

[17:19] it originally, this character of ancient elf. But he was too old. He didn't want to. I think

[17:24] he had already he'd already finished his career. He was in ragtime and that was it.

[17:27] And Fred Astaire was considered. But then Dudley Moore suggested Burgess Meredith for the role,

[17:33] which is he does a fine job. Now, as the more interesting thing is who was going to play the

[17:38] villain of the movie, which we'll get to later. But just a gem, as this could have been James

[17:42] Cagney's last role, which would have been in Orson Welles in the Transformers movie level.

[17:46] Like, yeah, wrong. Going out on time was the way to go. Whereas Burgess Meredith lived,

[17:51] you know, another decade. And his final onscreen film role I looked up was Grumpy Old Man. He did

[17:58] have a voice credit. And it is hilarious in the Grumpy Old Man movies. Like, I'm sorry.

[18:04] It's so funny. And to clarify, he was never in Transformers, the movie. No. OK, well,

[18:11] it's too bad. OK, so I mean, you know, which is kind of like Transformers for scary kids, right?

[18:17] I guess so. He was in Rocky where a guy sort of transformed himself. OK, and there's a robot

[18:26] in Rocky four, but not in the news, but not a Burgess Meredith in Rocky four, unfortunately.

[18:30] Yeah, guys, I know this pump of the brakes too much, but that bums me out so hard that the

[18:34] robots, right? Yeah, I mean, he had he had a he had a reason for removing the robot, I guess.

[18:42] But they other than the fact that it's it's kind of bonkers that that robot just shows up and it's

[18:48] very clearly implied that Polly is having sex with it. And that really draws focus away from

[18:53] the from the implication that Rocky is having sex with Apollo, which is the main aspect of the

[18:58] movie, you know. OK, so they give the reindeer magic. Hey, and they start bugging out and then

[19:03] they fly. It's pretty cool. And while they fly, the centuries roll by. Magic sand flows through

[19:10] the great hourglass at the center of the universe. Time takes over. This movie is so much more

[19:15] beautiful the way you describe it. And then and then we pause this montage to see a fucked up

[19:21] scene where this shitty little kid hurts a cat. And apparently he's the first kid in history to

[19:26] go on the naughty list. Kane is like, sucks to be you, dude. I do think it's funny. Like,

[19:33] this is where it's revealed that Mrs. Claus has a very as a more harsh view of the world.

[19:40] We're only yeah, only the only the good are deserving of reward. Yeah. And the naughty

[19:48] children. Well, I mean, she's a real scold. Yeah, it is in the Bible that that Santa comes

[19:55] with a sword. Yeah. And he is there to destroy the idols of the of the.

[20:00] world you know so and that's really mrs. Claus she's the lady Macbeth behind the

[20:04] throne behind behind the northern throne you know so yeah and we also she was

[20:08] gonna get him to kill God I got a Mobius comic strip so meanwhile Santa's job is

[20:16] getting exponential even with removing the naughty kids you have to imagine

[20:20] skinny exponentially harder every year as a lot fewer plagues oh I would but at

[20:25] the same time people are buying toys for their own kids also right so maybe it's

[20:29] a little bit easier if he's if he skips a house here and there who's gonna know

[20:32] you know are the parents gonna break kayfabe on this I don't think you're

[20:35] forgetting you're forgetting that his curse is endless night well that's okay

[20:42] that's the story that's that should be the story is that Santa there's one kid

[20:45] that he cannot find and this kid and he the night will not end until he

[20:50] delivers the final toy to that kid and it's driving Santa mad for him this

[20:54] night has gone on for thousands for millennia and even though for us it's

[20:57] been just one night oh and he's been driven insane so he's this he's just he's

[21:01] going to houses randomly and when he it's not the kid he wants he just kills

[21:05] them and he runs off to the next house yeah he needs to find this kid so he can

[21:12] platinum life the game okay we also see how letters magically arrived to the

[21:19] North Pole they basically get whisked away by a magical wind that makes them

[21:22] float across the universe and eventually land through his chimney and

[21:27] don't get burned up so don't think about that and then we we get a little bit of

[21:31] extra stuff like other data points about Santa get established like this you know

[21:36] the song and then they like fat shame him a little bit and that kind of sucks

[21:40] and there's a scene where he has to eat like celery instead of super whatever he

[21:45] normally eats but as you said like it's become a bigger job so he needs an

[21:50] assistant so he does a tryout amongst the elves to see who would be the best

[21:54] assistant yeah one of whom of course patch our little Saruman of the elves

[22:00] here and then it's what the other guys and they basically have a contest versus

[22:05] puffy yeah he's pitting them against one another with no extra money for this try

[22:09] out this contest phase see to get better work out of them yeah the way this is a

[22:15] capitalist mm-hmm exactly and wait except the thing is obviously these are

[22:21] all games being put on by the elves to make Santa Claus think that he has any

[22:25] control over his own life it's kind of a sick experiment that they're running

[22:29] eventually they're gonna reveal to him that there are no children and there are

[22:32] no toys it's all been you know it's all it's all but he's gonna wake up in an

[22:37] isolation booth and they're gonna be like well come on out yes we've we've

[22:40] shown the malleability of the human mind no agency whatsoever yeah mm-hmm

[22:45] yeah so we like patch develops like a crazy mechanical assembly line to build

[22:52] toys but it immediately starts fucking up but he wins anyway which is kind of

[22:56] weird they don't test the toys it seemed Santa just sees a bigger pile of toys

[23:01] and he's like uh I guess it's obvious gotta go with the p-man and they're like

[23:06] well both of our names start with P I'm patch and he's puffy so which one is the

[23:09] p-man you are patch puffy more like stuffy am I right and puffy's like I

[23:14] don't get that I don't understand everyone's laughing at him pointing he's

[23:17] like it doesn't make sense it's not a good insult and meanwhile patches putting

[23:21] on like you know he's sitting with his feet up on Santa Claus's desk and when

[23:24] Santa's showering he's like trying on Santa's outfit and stuff like that he's

[23:27] just biding his time and mrs. Claus is making goo goo eyes at him oh it's a

[23:30] there's just so much so much sordidness going on behind the scenes of the North

[23:34] Pole right and that's why puffy changed his name to Diddy so they wouldn't yeah

[23:39] and you know you just I mean luckily we're about 45 minutes into the movie so

[23:45] if you're already bored with the stuff going on in the North Pole let's go to

[23:48] the real world don't worry it's amazing how much of the movie I mean it is the

[23:54] Superman model we're like we're gonna tell the origin of the character they're

[23:57] gonna have him growing up as Santa I guess and then we're gonna have the plot

[24:00] but it's Superman I started in it for people who love Christmas out there I'm

[24:05] sorry Superman to me is like interesting enough that you're like

[24:08] where'd this guy come from he can fly how did he deal with that versus Santa

[24:12] Claus it's like I don't know that anyone really cares where he came Santa recedes

[24:16] into the background and it becomes patches movie and the thing is like look

[24:20] here's the thing we all know how we all know how what Santa is like we don't

[24:27] need Santa explained to us origin wise like this is something that is like

[24:31] taught to kids at such a young age we got the Santa idea we don't need that

[24:36] part of the movie so we can start with like Elf in the City that movie is

[24:39] called Elf one can see how this film could have been successful cut off the

[24:46] first half this makes you appreciate I think everything that works about

[24:49] Superman clearly comes from like Richard Donner and Tom Mankiewicz

[24:54] completely rewriting David Newman's script because apparently David Newman's

[24:58] original script was real jokey and didn't really take things seriously and

[25:01] you look at Superman and you think wow this movie somehow manages to

[25:05] accommodate like Marlon Brando as Jor-El and Ned Beatty as Otis those are like

[25:11] two very different tones that somehow fit into this whole thing whereas this movie

[25:15] wants you to take in like Santa Claus and the Elder Elf and blah blah blah and

[25:19] then also John Lithgow like acting to the rafters as the evil evil bad guy and

[25:25] it's like oh you thought he delivered a big performance but it's like not a but

[25:31] it's also not a jokey movie like there's not there's some jokes there's one John

[25:35] Lithgow joke that I think is so funny I had to rewind to watch it again but other

[25:38] than that like it's a movie that it takes it takes this Santa Claus it takes

[25:42] Santa Claus so seriously like it's it like there are times when it's like

[25:46] there's I mean when when one of the child characters it later on is bound

[25:50] and gagged in like the back room of a warehouse and I was like this is too

[25:54] much this is too much for a Santa Claus movie. Speaking of child characters in the modern day on the mean

[26:01] streets of New York City we meet a plucky young urchin named Joe who's just

[26:05] trying to survive out there he stands looking through the window of a

[26:08] McDonald's and for like 20 minutes we watch a family eat fucking McNuggets. It's like the end of Stella Dallas if it had been at a McDonald's and I'm glad you said

[26:17] urchin because like the kid literally has like smudges on his face like he

[26:21] works in a mill and fingerless gloves. We're introduced to these two child

[26:25] characters we'll meet the other one in a moment and they're both I was like we

[26:28] saw a yellow taxicab so this must be like the present day but they're both

[26:32] like Victorian characters and you think he's like looking through the window of

[26:37] McDonald's and he's maybe he's just a man he's just amazed by the fluorescent

[26:40] light like he doesn't know what he's seeing. It's like that issue of

[26:45] From Hell where the doctor is like traveling through time and seeing the

[26:49] horrors of the future. He sees a modern-day office and he's like you're all dead already. I can only assume that the movie like the movie rightfully knew that Santa Claus colon the movie was not a film that could

[27:01] support having a like realistic homeless child in it and so they're like oh

[27:06] let's make him a character out of Oliver rather than being like let's rewrite

[27:11] this so we don't have to deal with the issue of homelessness in our dumb bad movie.

[27:16] They also could have had not a homeless character in it. The little match boy

[27:20] although I really a movie called Santa Claus movie can barely sustain Santa

[27:24] Claus. The second half he's barely in it. I will say also if you if you if you

[27:29] rent Santa Claus's colon the movie which Jay mentioned that's a very different movie.

[27:33] That's not one that you're not gonna see. It's a specialized audience. I also want to

[27:40] mention that when he looks through the McDonald's the sound dubbing on the

[27:43] eating in that is so funny. It's only a few shots I guess but it's like the

[27:49] loudest slurp of a soda and it's like is this kid listening like did he bug the

[27:54] room like the conversation style to these eating sounds? If only the Mac and Me breakdance number had

[28:02] broken out I think that would have really you know. So we're also introduced

[28:06] to a nice rich rich girl who lives in a mansion and named Cornelia and she

[28:11] leaves like a plate of food and a frosty old coke out in the snow for Joe the

[28:17] urchin who you know slurps that down while holding it in the appropriate way

[28:22] so we can see the logo the whole time. It's the old the old can where it says

[28:25] coke and not coca-cola yeah. Yeah this this is this was the the horrible coke

[28:29] that no one liked of the mid 80s. You know then this was new coke but when she

[28:34] puts it down on the ground for him. I mean he can't be a chooser. He's literally a beggar.

[28:38] Of course yes like if it was an RC he would just have to take it. Yeah don't even bring up such an idea forget it.

[28:44] She puts she puts the can down coke side to the camera and then when he goes to

[28:49] pick it up it has coca-cola side to the camera so not like so the continuity

[28:54] screwed up but they're always labeled a camera like that never fails. So Santa

[29:00] decides to make an unscheduled stop it's Christmas Eve and he's flying around and

[29:06] he wants to give this street kid Joe a toy but instead he like takes him on a

[29:10] late-night sleigh ride it's not weird don't be gross guys it's totally normal

[29:15] and then there's a lot of magic carpet ride it's fine yeah there's a lot of

[29:19] reindeer reaction shots like every two seconds we're seeing them like cover

[29:23] their eyes and ears and shit. And this is this one they try to pull off a super

[29:28] duper looper but the reindeer can't do it? I think maybe. I got a little too scared. I also was covering my

[29:35] eyes with my ears. And also speaking of Superman the you know like this shares

[29:41] with that long loving shots of just the characters flying over. It works for Miyazaki.

[29:47] The thing is in Superman you're like oh yeah like I haven't seen this done in a

[29:56] movie before like. I will believe a man can fly. Yeah where's by the time

[30:00] Santa Claus the movie comes around you're like, oh god, could you stop with this thing Dan?

[30:05] I would agree with you except that these old-fashioned process shots are the best thing in the movie

[30:11] Maybe it's just because it reminds me of my childhood

[30:14] I know I saw this movie as a kid and the only things I really remember are the flying shots

[30:18] Maybe because there's so much of them, but just give me that three-dimensional object

[30:22] That's clearly been optically printed or whatever into it just footage of a skyline and just make it get the vectors, right?

[30:29] So it so it scales properly and I'm there and put some animated glowy dust all over that do it. Yeah

[30:37] The glitter there's more glitter in this movie than in Mariah Carey's glitter

[30:42] Magical every every kind of like

[30:45] transition whatever star wipe

[30:48] Which shows you it shows you that a a not confident filmmaker who's like, how are people gonna know this is magic

[30:57] Works for strip clubs, okay

[30:59] a few days after

[31:02] Yeah, a few days after Christmas the toys that Santa delivered are falling apart in a very funny scene of kids

[31:08] Like their shit is breaking. I like the kids like thing goes out into the street and a bus runs it over

[31:14] You can't blame Santa for a thing breaking when a bus runs and that bus comes so close to the kid

[31:19] Oh, yeah, it was like that child almost died and he's just like, oh my wagon play in the street first

[31:25] Yeah, that's on you kid now all the world has turned on Santa people hate him they're saying it's junk

[31:31] It's kids start getting into fights trying to defend. They're beating up. The other agents are beating up

[31:36] He said Santa's a good guy. Yeah

[31:39] The kids in ballet class turn on Cordelia and there's a pretty wicked slap in that. Yeah, and the gifts are being returned somehow

[31:47] They just like start dumping through

[31:49] I'm guessing through the same magic as how he gets his letters

[31:52] Um, they start to like draft up like a Twitter post or some shit to apologize, it's pretty weird

[31:59] Patch has to resign he

[32:03] He packs his shit the reindeers cry and then he bounces he's out of there get him the fuck out of it

[32:09] I got a bro. I got probably clearly patches ideas were fundamentally sound. It was just a question of

[32:17] You know quality control why clearly why were they clearly sound?

[32:22] Maintenance, well because it worked it worked. It was working faster, you know

[32:28] But you they got bad toys out of it never happened maintain the machines

[32:34] Properly, don't push them, you know, like is that possible? I mean quality control

[32:40] Some would say if you plot pop if you properly regulate Facebook, it's a force for good. I would say no impossible

[32:47] Very patches

[32:49] With an actual OSHA inspector, I think you might have some I mean clearly you're an enemy of progress Elliot. That's

[32:56] I am that's true. Get a horse

[32:59] I would love to get a horse. Thank you

[33:01] Maybe a little one I can carry in my pocket

[33:03] But Dan that I think you're right if it well the problem is patch did not do a prototype run to see I mean

[33:08] I guess they did but then they just ship those out. It happens with Kickstarter all the time, man

[33:13] They're like checking things afterwards, yeah, okay, so

[33:18] Who's like, oh we need to hire all these

[33:21] You would think that the you think that the movie's over but no cut to a courtroom where John Lithgow was on trial

[33:29] He's testifying before Congress. He is not on trial. He's he's smoking a big fat cigars

[33:35] for the Congressional Committee on like toy

[33:39] quality

[33:42] Basically kind of doing the Dan Aykroyd bit from Saturday Night Live. Yes, exactly a bag of glass and all that stuff

[33:48] Yeah, I'm a human torch. So this character is BZ. That's his name

[33:53] Yes, and hit this this role the so according to Wikipedia

[33:56] They wanted a star they liked that Gene Hackman who was a big star played Lex Luthor Superman's

[34:02] They wanted to start that big so they offered the role to Harrison Ford very it would have been a very different performance

[34:08] And then when he turned it down they offered it to Dustin Hoffman

[34:12] Burt Reynolds and Johnny Carson and all of them turned the part down and then eventually

[34:18] They John Lithgow who was not a big star at the time

[34:20] They they brought him in apparently after seeing him in terms of endearment, which I totally get he's great in terms of endearment

[34:25] So he's great in basically everything even best even bad stuff. He's still good in but yeah

[34:30] It's but I just imagine how different this role would have been if it was like Johnny Carson playing it or Burt Reynolds

[34:35] Or there's a way to do it, I guess but or Harrison Harrison Ford's the one I don't I don't believe it

[34:40] They could I don't buy Harrison Ford as an evil toy maker. Like I'm sorry a

[34:45] Gruff toy maker. Yeah. Yeah, like Carrie Fisher. Yes, Harrison Ford. Oh Carrie Fisher would have been amazing in this. Yeah

[34:53] Okay, so ready for an evil female toy maker. They just didn't have it. Yeah back in

[35:00] BZ's office Pat shows patch shows up and they start scheming. That's right patch wants to get back into Santa's good graces

[35:08] BZ wants to reform his image a little bit. So together they hatch a plan to give away some free shit using magic

[35:15] So that of course they make patch being a commercial for BZ toys and he looks uncomfortable. But whatever. It's cool. I I

[35:23] Was a little unclear about

[35:25] so later on

[35:27] Dudley Moore delivers all of these toys for free in a rocket car in a rocket car. Yeah, I

[35:34] like I

[35:36] Wasn't sure why they were advertising an item. That was just gonna show because they like you to album

[35:43] Yeah, that was the worst. I felt so it was felt so invasive and that you to

[35:47] We hated it because we didn't know what's happening

[35:50] TV commercial maybe and I don't like you too. So the idea that if they had offered to me I said no, thank you

[35:55] Oh, you don't like us. Sorry Bono. You're I guess you're great. I don't know. You're not my thing. I'm sorry

[36:01] Oh, no. No, I also don't like YouTube. But yeah, my brand is stuff, you know, like YouTube

[36:09] Boy this is too much stuff that sounds the same so the

[36:14] They want the public real they want the PR from it

[36:16] So he has this big commercial on every network in the world saying hey BZ toys loves kids so much

[36:23] We're gonna give free toys to everybody

[36:25] Hey, I know that when you showed my teddy bear in front of the Senate subcommittee on dangerous toys you open it up

[36:30] It was full of glass and nails, but now I'm giving you free toys. So aren't you and it's got magic in it and it's an edible

[36:43] It's a very broad definition of toy and it is funny in the commercial how patches super stiff like he clearly is not enjoying it

[36:50] And he's surrounded by like like rocket type dancers. Yeah, but this is this around the time

[36:56] I just wanted to highlight Jonathan has a line here

[36:58] I thought was so funny where he's cracking his knuckles while he walks with his with that wasn't named Tauzer his assistant

[37:05] Yeah, he goes. Ah, nothing like cracking your knuckles the pleasantest sound in the world

[37:11] That's it, yeah, I believe that character would feel that way but there's no plot reason for it like it's not

[37:16] It's just

[37:18] One of the things that's great about that commercial is that that you can tell they've had to figure out a way

[37:21] How do we dress up a bunch of showgirls in Dudley Moore in colors and costumes that are more?

[37:26] garish and tasteless than what the actual elves have been wearing this entire movie because those outfits are an assault on the eyes like

[37:35] Santa and mrs. Claus wind up in these yellow polka dot ensembles where you're just like

[37:40] Make it stop. Yeah, I don't know man. I think I could pull off that fit. Well

[37:44] you

[37:48] It's like they're like elf law states

[37:51] No, no sleeve can be the same color as another sleeve in the same garment

[37:55] No, no one color garments elf law says so from the book of Elphiticus. Oh

[38:00] We didn't even mention all those damn elf puns went so deadly

[38:05] You just need a little more elf confidence or it's like, oh, I'll have control

[38:09] I've got a lot of elf control and it's like god damn it. Come on

[38:14] That's my elf image and later on. He hasn't there's an elf portrait. It's like, oh every time. Yeah, you're being alpha facing

[38:20] Today, he would be taking an Elfie

[38:26] So you had mentioned the Rockettes before of course

[38:28] So that means that Dudley Moore invents a rocket car to deliver all the presents. Yeah, that's what the Rockette is. Yep

[38:35] And the magic shit that he gives all the kids. It's like magical lollipops and make you float or something

[38:40] Yes, huge hit. Everybody loves this shit. People are going nuts. No one does. Yeah, no one dies. Amazingly

[38:47] BZ wants more that's right Dudley Moore to make even more

[38:51] again Dudley Moore

[38:55] Law you need magic in your lollipops to make you so he devises a plan for Christmas the sequel aka Christmas to

[39:02] Which I think is a really good idea for March

[39:05] Back at the North Pole Santa is fucking bumming dude. He's starting to rethink his life

[39:10] He's blaming people for not having the Christmas spirit and I'm like work on yourself, dude

[39:14] Or maybe you can just diminish and go live in the West who cares?

[39:20] Man in the mirror Santa

[39:23] He's like someone likes another toy, I guess I should just quit

[39:27] He's such a big baby

[39:29] Yeah

[39:30] It's a lot. He's a lot. He's very elf entitled, you know

[39:34] Oh

[39:36] No, no, it's starting

[39:39] So yeah

[39:43] There's a great scene where the elves try and snap Sam out of it by showing him a doll that wets itself

[39:48] But he's like get that shit out of my face

[40:00] Uh, back in New York City, Joe shows up at Cornelius' mansion, he's all sick, so she

[40:11] takes him in and lets him get over his fever in the basement.

[40:14] He's literally, he's lying among trash in the basement.

[40:18] And this house has roughly 400 bedrooms.

[40:21] She's gotta make him feel comfortable.

[40:23] He's more comfortable around trash.

[40:25] Like Jason Bourne has to sleep on the floor, you know?

[40:27] Do you think there was a scene where he was in like a lavish, luxurious bedroom and he's

[40:32] like, ugh, I just can't get comfortable.

[40:33] Don't you have like a flat cardboard box on a hardwood floor?

[40:36] Do you have a garbage room in this house somewhere?

[40:38] Is there some trash in here with me?

[40:40] The movie is really weird about this character.

[40:42] Again, I think to try and cut the sadness of just having this character in the movie,

[40:48] because he's always like, no, I don't want to sleep inside, you know?

[40:52] As if it's been his choice to be out on the street for the whole time.

[40:56] He should be doing whatever that number from Oliver and Company is, you know, about living

[41:00] by his wits or whatever.

[41:02] Why should I worry?

[41:03] Yes, that's it.

[41:04] And we've learned by this point that Cornelia is Beezy's niece, right?

[41:08] Or step-niece?

[41:09] Step-niece.

[41:10] Yeah.

[41:11] Oh, yeah, so Beezy's in the house with him.

[41:13] We want to make sure that the audience knows that Cornelia doesn't have any of Beezy's

[41:16] tainted evil blood.

[41:18] It's a step-uncle who still takes care of her for some reason.

[41:22] Yeah.

[41:24] She's such an orphan that, like, step-uncle was the best she could do.

[41:28] Everybody else, gone.

[41:30] So they're in the basement and they overhear a secret business talk between Beezy and his

[41:37] business manager guy while they drink.

[41:41] Do they both drink PBR out of Brandy Snickers?

[41:44] I think it was Miller High Life.

[41:47] I think it's PBR.

[41:48] I think that was the other big brand.

[41:52] The other brand sponsor of this movie besides Coke and McDonald's.

[41:55] I couldn't tell if he poured himself a Cognac or a Brandy and poured his manager the PBR,

[42:00] which would be a funnier joke, but whatever.

[42:02] By the way, this also has the joke that I thought Elliot might have been referring to.

[42:09] He was talking about the knuckle one, but I like when John Lithgow was going, uh-huh,

[42:14] uh-huh.

[42:15] When the guy kept saying it.

[42:16] When he finally was like, could you just say more than one sentence at a time so I don't

[42:21] have to stand here saying, uh-huh, over and over again.

[42:24] Tauzer, we should mention, he's played by multiple Emmy winner Jeffrey Kramer, who was

[42:30] in Stewart's favorite movie, Heart Beeps, as party butler robot.

[42:33] Oh yeah, the Paul Schrader movie, Heart Beeps?

[42:36] Yeah, Paul Schrader movie, Heart Beeps.

[42:39] Kramer, yeah, he's the one always busting in and shaking his head all funny.

[42:42] Then he had that horrible stand-up snafu.

[42:45] Okay, so let's see.

[42:47] A lot of misunderstandings there, but I think it's okay, yeah.

[42:50] So we find out that the magic candy canes that they're trying to give out that are super-powered

[42:58] are just a little too volatile and can explode if exposed to heat.

[43:02] Uh-oh, I wonder if that's going to matter, but Beezy's like, fuck it, let's just risk

[43:06] it, who cares?

[43:07] However, they find out that the kids overheard this shit, so of course he captures Joe and

[43:12] chains him to a radiator in the basement of the factory.

[43:15] Their plan is literally to, he says, we've got all this money in cash, because I guess

[43:19] kids have been paying for the candy canes ahead of time in cash, and they're going to

[43:26] take the cash and go to Brazil, where they'll just live a hedonistic life until their hearts

[43:31] give out, and they can't be extradited.

[43:32] And let Patch face the music, and a life sentence in prison will be an eternal one, so that's

[43:38] really kind of a dark irony.

[43:40] Yeah, it is.

[43:41] Horrifying, really.

[43:42] Eventually the prison will fall down around Patch.

[43:45] He'll wander the planet Earth.

[43:49] When America's but a wasteland, yeah, sure, yeah.

[43:53] But he believes in rules by that point, so he refuses to leave the grounds of what was

[43:58] once the prison until he's cleared by the governor, yeah.

[44:03] So Cornelia writes Santa a letter, it gets whisked away with magic, it shows up, and

[44:08] Santa's like, what the fuck, it's January, who's the greedy kid who needs shit?

[44:11] And then he reads it, he's like, oh man, Joe needs our help, so let's set off these reindeer,

[44:15] and they're like, two of them are sick, and he's like, I don't give a shit.

[44:19] The fact that two of them are sick does not really go much of anywhere.

[44:21] It does not matter at all.

[44:23] But it does have a cute moment where they're sticking a Curly Q thermometer in a reindeer

[44:28] puppet's mouth.

[44:29] Yeah, and it lights up, that was adorable.

[44:31] And then he gives a long speech to the remaining reindeer puppets, which I was like, give this

[44:36] guy a special Academy Award for doing this.

[44:40] For outstanding Santa acting before puppets, yeah.

[44:44] At the factory, Joe and Patch have a confrontation, Patch realizes that Santa still likes him,

[44:50] because he finds this weird statue that Santa whittled up, and it's like, again, Funko Pops.

[44:57] So they decide to bounce back to the North Pole, however, he loads all the explosive

[45:01] candy canes into the trunk of his rocket car, and you're like, uh-oh, because he doesn't

[45:06] know they're explosive.

[45:07] And why does he do that?

[45:08] Well, because he's like, if I do this, then Santa won't have to make shit, because I already

[45:12] made this shit, we can give it out next year.

[45:14] Kids love it.

[45:15] Because the whole reason he did this was just to show Santa that he's really good, so he'd

[45:18] go back to Santa and get his job back, right?

[45:20] And they won't melt in the super hot trunk of my rocket.

[45:23] Exactly.

[45:24] So Santa and Cornelia are chasing them in the sleigh, trying to warn them of the danger

[45:29] they're in, because they don't know that those things are going to explode.

[45:32] Now, back at BZ's office, the authorities are closing in on him, they're going to bust

[45:37] his ass, so he chomps a bunch of candy canes to escape, and he flies out the window, and

[45:42] eventually flies into outer space.

[45:44] Yep.

[45:45] It's just like Moriarty at the end of League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Volume 1, Alan

[45:48] Moore once again stealing from Dudley Moore's work.

[45:51] He did it before, he'll do it again.

[45:54] In the director's cut, he becomes the star child, though, so it's a whole other thing.

[45:58] Oh, wow.

[45:59] Yeah, he achieves enlightenment once he gets far enough away from Earth, and he goes, oh,

[46:02] why was I so concerned with possessions and physical things?

[46:07] Truly, it is the matter of the soul.

[46:09] That is the only thing that should matter at all.

[46:12] And he becomes from B to Z, the beta, to the omega, the zomega.

[46:15] Yeah, he creates a singularity inside, he sees a Canadian in a hotel room, and he becomes

[46:21] the Big Bang, and his spirit tells Adam and Eve in the garden to make toys or something,

[46:27] I don't know.

[46:28] But now it's the Big Zang.

[46:29] It's the Big Zang, that's what BZ stands for.

[46:33] So this is all great, but meanwhile, back in the terrestrial realm, Santa is chasing

[46:39] the rocket car, which is, they're starting to have some problems here, and they're like,

[46:44] there's no way we're going to catch them, they're going to explode.

[46:46] Well, certainly more, Patch and Joe are hot-dogging so much in this rocket car, they're just driving

[46:51] without anyone steering, they're covering their eyes, it goes on forever, them just

[46:55] kind of like, doing tricks in the rocket car.

[46:58] Drive it like you stole it.

[46:59] There was a part, there was a part during this long chase scene where like, Audrey had

[47:06] paused the movie to point out some buildings in the Bronx that she recognized, and I'm

[47:13] like, we're ten minutes away from the end, why are you stopping?

[47:19] So is there a feeling, I've never been a professional filmmaker, guys, what do you think?

[47:23] Is there a feeling that if you have a chase sequence of any kind, it just also functions

[47:28] as padding to get your movie to a certain length?

[47:30] Because it reminds me of the chase scene in Howard the Duck, where they're on that little

[47:33] plane, and it goes on for so long, and there's no way anyone watching it was ever like, more

[47:38] of this, we're not doing enough of it, it's too entertaining, we need more, it feels like

[47:43] it's just a way of just padding out the end of the movie, or what?

[47:46] I've mentioned it on the show before, but that's what I read about the Rockford Files,

[47:50] that they put a chase in every episode so they could make time, they could either expand

[47:54] or contract it as needed.

[47:56] I feel like Sons of Anarchy did the same shit.

[48:00] I think in movies that don't work, you're more likely to cut dialogue than you are anything

[48:04] that remotely resembles action.

[48:06] I guess that makes sense.

[48:07] It's just a thought.

[48:08] And if you get Friedkin in there to direct your sleigh, rocket car chase scene, he's

[48:15] every minute of it.

[48:17] It's an additional sleigh material directed by William Friedkin, that's right.

[48:21] To live and die at the North Pole.

[48:22] There's that chase sequence in The Town, which is otherwise kind of a mediocre movie, and

[48:26] it's like, every time I see a good chase sequence, it jumps out and hits me in the face, and

[48:31] I wonder, did they think they were making that, or is it just that most of the chase

[48:34] sequences I see are so lackluster, that when I see a good one, I'm like, whoa, what is

[48:38] this?

[48:39] Well, David Duman did co-write What's Up, Doc?, which has a great car chase in it, so

[48:42] maybe he was trying to sort of chase that dragon.

[48:45] That is a really good chase scene, although they ruined some public stairs in San Francisco,

[48:49] driving a car over them without permission, so take that, Peter Bogdanovich.

[48:54] Public scold.

[48:55] I just hope someday Peter Bogdanovich will pay for that karmically in some way, I don't

[48:59] know.

[49:00] And hopefully he won't commit the crime.

[49:01] Sorry, was that too much?

[49:02] Considering the wreckage his life became?

[49:03] We've just maybe crossed a line, I think, for the first time ever in this podcast.

[49:10] So it looks like there's nothing they can do, the sleigh's just not going fast enough,

[49:14] and then Santa turns to Corneal, and he's like, we're gonna have to do the fuckin' super

[49:17] duper looper, which means they go much faster, and then they do a loop where they fly under

[49:24] the rocket car, they loop over the rocket car, rocket car explodes, and they loop back

[49:30] under and catch them, which is wild.

[49:32] Why'd they have to do the whole loop?

[49:34] Exactly.

[49:35] I mean, they're just stunting?

[49:36] What's happening?

[49:37] Yeah, they're stunting.

[49:38] I was yelling at the television, like, what is this maneuver supposed to be accomplishing?

[49:42] It feels less like they're trying to save, like, saving Patch and Joe is just a side

[49:46] effect of them, of Santa taking the moment to just front and show that, show Santa, show

[49:51] Patch that he's always gonna be the best, and Patch can't, can't, yeah.

[49:54] There's like a special achievement they need to unlock, like, I don't know what the fuck's

[49:57] going on.

[49:58] Yeah, if he's gonna get the medal for the last time.

[50:00] Yeah, it's like when Jane Fonda finally does the backflip at the end of on Golden Pond

[50:04] And so you know that she has taken in the lessons. It's good. You know it has that same identical

[50:11] Santa's like I never can get over the my feelings about my father until I do the super-duper looper exactly

[50:17] That was that I was I only recently got to see on golden pond for the first time

[50:21] And I was like it just struck me what a what I was like

[50:25] I can't imagine this movie being like as big a hit as it was at the time

[50:30] It's it's so much about like just kind of like

[50:33] Upset white people who are doing fine, otherwise you know, but it was I know that was that was it

[50:38] That was like the second biggest movie of the year or something like that. Oh, yeah

[50:41] Well, you know it's funny when you go back

[50:43] And you look at the top ten box office of the early 80s

[50:46] Movies like Terms of Endearment and on Golden Pond are there where now it's like it's all you know Marvel and Fast and the Furious

[50:53] But like yeah these sort of adulty dramas that they barely even make anymore were huge theatrical experiences were enormous

[51:00] Well, you had to go to the movies to see that kind of thing. You just couldn't watch on TV

[51:02] I mean, yeah

[51:03] I feel like again like a lot of that type of stuff has now been relegated to like ten part

[51:08] miniseries and no absolutely no question

[51:10] That's true

[51:10] They did on Golden Pond now it would be like at least a six part miniseries and a lot of it would be told in

[51:15] Reverse like it would start with with a mystery

[51:17] And then you'd have to go back to find out you'd be flashbacks to them as kids and stuff like that

[51:23] Man, that would be so boring

[51:27] Do it let's make it

[51:29] Let's just make on Golden Pond the series. Dan, who do you think would play the Katherine Hepburn part?

[51:36] Why do you think?

[51:39] Because you're the casting director. Dan, it's Katherine Hepburn. What part do you think it is?

[51:45] Okay, perfect. Great. You mean somebody literally played Katherine Hepburn? Okay

[51:49] I

[51:51] Was like, oh wait in the aviator she was

[51:54] But I think that means that I think he's honest. Okay, so who's playing? Who's playing Henry Fonda then?

[52:01] Don't say Peter Fonda. He's not alive anymore

[52:05] Well, I mean how old is Henry Fonda and old he's very old he's very old

[52:11] Like old old

[52:13] Okay, could we guy Pearson old guy makeup? Yes

[52:17] Okay planches as Katherine Hepburn and as the kid will say Timothee Chalamet, okay continues

[52:25] So they go back to Santa's workshop, they fucking pops and bottles throw a party it rules right movies over

[52:32] This kid these kids are gonna stay with us forever

[52:38] Now I have to open a school and there's this look in the kids face of like what is happening

[52:46] He's found an heir he's allowed to die

[53:00] Is John Lithgow in space

[53:04] They're all they're all they're all laughing and dancing and the adolescents him floating off to space to die like there's no he's not coming back

[53:12] He's gonna freeze solid and then you know, even if he did come back he would fall to his death

[53:18] If he came back, he would certainly be changed in some way. Yeah, it's a range horrify

[53:24] And we catch fire while and re-entering the atmosphere. Yeah. Yeah, so he's now he's this horrible meltdown

[53:30] Insane creature that is wandering around looking for Santa to get we're looking for patch to get revenge because Beasley and Santa never

[53:37] Meet each other in the movie. It's just like heat except without the scene without Pacino and Robert

[53:42] Meeting each other. Yeah

[53:50] No, I'm Peewee Herman you might know me from TV

[53:55] I'm Peewee Herman. You might know me from TV, but I really want to be a DJ

[54:01] It took some convincing but KCRW

[54:05] Finally agreed to give me an hour on the radio to play you some music with my friends

[54:11] Anyway, tune in for one hour of the bestest most funnest time you'll ever have on the Peewee Herman

[54:19] Radio-hour, I am personally inviting you to tune your transistor radio in to hear me or go to KCRW.com

[54:27] Duh

[54:29] It'll be available for the whole week from November 26 to December 3rd

[54:33] So you can listen to it again and again and again and again and again

[54:41] The Peewee Herman radio hour was produced by maximum fun and can be streamed on

[54:47] KCRW.com until December 3rd. I

[54:50] Listen to bullseye because Jesse always has really good questions. What did John Malkovich wear when he was 20?

[54:57] Yeah, I don't know how to describe it

[55:00] There's always that moment where Jesse asks a question that the person he's interviewing has not thought of before

[55:07] I don't think anyone's ever said that to me or acknowledged that to me and that is so real

[55:12] Bullseye interviews with creators you love and creators. You need to know from maximumfund.org and NPR

[55:21] Hey, this show is

[55:24] improbably sponsored by some people and we'd like to thank them and

[55:28] Get their message out to the world. So

[55:32] Elliot this podcast is sponsored by better help online therapy as you heard a Dan seems to have a little bit of a self-esteem

[55:38] Issue about the show doesn't think it's worth supporting

[55:40] Maybe that's the kind of thing he could talk to somebody at better help online therapy a lot about look here

[55:45] Let's let's talk about it. Honestly

[55:48] We take care of a lot of things in our lives

[55:50] There's a lot of parts of our life that we do work on so that they stay in healthy working order

[55:56] You get your car tuned up you do exercise to keep your body working, right?

[56:01] You eat right because you got to put in good stuff if you want to get good stuff out of it by which I mean

[56:06] quality fertilizer

[56:08] So going to therapy is a lot like that

[56:11] Except it's for your mind and your emotions as opposed to physical things that you can touch and hold and see

[56:16] But often that's more important the stuff on the outside is not going to work properly

[56:21] If what's happening inside is not to the way that you want it to be

[56:25] Therapy doesn't mean that there's something wrong with you necessarily

[56:28] Although I'm firmly of the belief that there's something wrong with everybody to varying degrees and that therapy is good for everybody

[56:33] it just means that you are investing and keeping yourself healthy and

[56:38] Keeping your emotions and your mind just functioning the way you want them to so better help is a way to get it better help

[56:44] Is customized online therapy that offers video phone even live chat sessions with your therapist?

[56:49] You don't have to see anyone on camera

[56:51] If you don't want to find the way that is most comfortable for you to talk honestly and openly about yourself

[56:56] What might be concerning you what's going on in your life?

[56:58] It can be more affordable than in-person therapy

[57:00] You can start communicating with your therapist in under 48 hours if I'm being honest something that keeps me from therapy

[57:05] Sometimes is the process of finding the right therapist if I move to a new place or my old therapist is no longer

[57:12] They move or retire or something like that

[57:15] It's hard to find the right therapist for you in the right match and better help

[57:18] Makes that a lot easier it cuts down on the investment you have to put in to get to the right person

[57:22] So you invest in everything else in your life?

[57:25] Why are you not investing in your mind you should be so we're sponsored by better help and flop house listeners get 10% off their

[57:31] First month at better help.com slash flop. That's B E T T E R H E

[57:37] LP comm slash flop, please. Take care of yourself. It's gonna be helpful. You won't regret it

[57:45] Thank you, and we've also got a

[57:48] jumbotron

[57:51] Stewart fell off a cliff

[57:53] Okay, I'm back guys scary Christmas fast scary Christmas floppers

[57:58] Are you a fan of holiday horror films like Black Christmas and Krampus?

[58:03] Then buckle up for Red Snow a ghoul tide horror comedy now available to pre-order on

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[59:00] Horror fans, here's another horror thing for you

[59:02] Hey by the time this episode comes out maniac of New York

[59:05] The Bronx is burning number one first issue of the new miniseries volume of my story comic with Andrew Moody

[59:12] From aftershock comics is gonna be out in stores. That's maniac of New York. The Bronx is burning number one

[59:17] That's right. Maniac. Harry is back along with all your favorite heroes from the first at first series Zelda

[59:23] Gina Lena that mayor that nobody likes they're all in this one

[59:26] But uh-oh, the maniac is up in the Bronx and things are gonna get

[59:31] Horrifically bloody if you're new to maniac of New York the collect edition of the first series maniac of New York volume one the death

[59:37] Train is also on store shelves now

[59:39] So pick it up some aftershock comics go to your local comic book store and tell them I want maniac of New York

[59:44] The Bronx is burning number one and I want you to order me the rest of the series

[59:48] it's going to be four issues for pulse pounding issues of horror in the

[59:53] Uh crazy kalen

[59:55] Classic. Yeah something that starts with that means like manner or style that starts with k

[1:00:00] or C. Characteristic. Yeah, characteristic.

[1:00:06] So, yeah, go to your go to your local comic store

[1:00:09] and say, make mine Maniac of New York.

[1:00:12] Oh, that's so much better.

[1:00:13] Thank you, Stuart, for that.

[1:00:15] Maniac of New York.

[1:00:15] The Bronx is burning number one on store shelves now.

[1:00:22] All right, well, let's do final judgments,

[1:00:24] whether this is a good, bad movie, a bad, bad movie or movie.

[1:00:28] You kind of like, uh, I don't know.

[1:00:30] I would because I was yelling at the movie to end.

[1:00:34] I think I have to say there's a bad, bad movie.

[1:00:38] But also it is so very strange.

[1:00:43] Like this movie.

[1:00:44] Dan, Dan, you want to know how much stranger can be?

[1:00:46] This calls according Wikipedia that originally offered the chance

[1:00:48] to direct the movie John Carpenter.

[1:00:50] Yeah, but he also wanted to do the right.

[1:00:53] I would have been awesome.

[1:00:54] Yeah. You want to do the score in the final cut?

[1:00:55] They said no.

[1:00:56] Uh, yeah. Well, thank God.

[1:01:00] Good. Good work, John.

[1:01:01] You got your price yourself out of it.

[1:01:03] You have to imagine they were like John Carpenter.

[1:01:05] You want to write the Santa Claus movie?

[1:01:06] He goes, I can't say no, because maybe they'll ask me to direct a Superman movie.

[1:01:10] So I'll just say yes.

[1:01:11] But I also want to do the score.

[1:01:12] And they were like, OK, forget it. Forget it.

[1:01:14] I yeah, I it is a one of the

[1:01:19] more bizarre things that you will see in terms of like a big blockbuster

[1:01:24] from the past or would be blockbuster just a misbegotten projects.

[1:01:28] Like I would say bad, bad.

[1:01:30] I didn't really enjoy it.

[1:01:32] I saw it when I was a kid.

[1:01:33] I didn't like it when I was a kid either.

[1:01:35] But it is almost worth seeing just because it's so strange.

[1:01:39] Is my it's very strange.

[1:01:41] I was very excited when I saw that Dudley Moore is playing a character named Patch,

[1:01:44] which I assumed was kind of a reference to the reoccurring scoundrel figure

[1:01:49] that keeps showing up in the Dark Souls universe games.

[1:01:52] But in fact, it has nothing to do with it.

[1:01:54] He is not a weird, bald Spider-Man or normal man who tricks the hero.

[1:01:59] And then you have to get revenge on him.

[1:02:01] That doesn't happen in this movie.

[1:02:03] So I would say or or patch.

[1:02:05] Yeah, so I'm going to say bad, bad, I guess.

[1:02:10] I'm going to say good, bad, because it is not a good.

[1:02:15] It's not a good movie, but I feel like it is.

[1:02:19] If you said to someone, hey, they made a movie about Santa Claus.

[1:02:22] This is both what you would imagine and exactly not what you would imagine.

[1:02:26] It's like everything in it is you're watching.

[1:02:28] You're like, yeah, I guess this is this is what you do

[1:02:30] if you're making a Santa Claus movie.

[1:02:32] But everything's just like enough degrees off that it doesn't feel right.

[1:02:36] But it might be some of that.

[1:02:37] I think it's just residual 80s nostalgia on my part.

[1:02:40] I love John Lithgow's office.

[1:02:42] I love that it's the 80s, but because he's rich, they had the iconography

[1:02:45] is that he dresses like it's the 30s, complete with those like mud covers

[1:02:48] over his shoes that people haven't worn since the 30s.

[1:02:51] And like it's a you know, it's and I and I love all 80s effects.

[1:02:57] So I'm going to say good, bad, but only if I guess you're exactly my age and me.

[1:03:03] I mean, it's like I don't know if this is a category.

[1:03:06] It's bad, bad, but you have to see it.

[1:03:09] You know, yeah, you just you can't be true to describe this thing.

[1:03:13] You have to look at it and be like, wow, someone thought this was a good idea.

[1:03:16] And again, I think it is if nothing else, like if you want to elevate Superman

[1:03:21] and Superman to in your mind, this is what it could have been.

[1:03:24] You know, I think this movie is it's it's it's like when you watch the

[1:03:29] the the version of Brazil that the president of Universal

[1:03:32] actually wanted to release, it's like, OK, well, now we we know what you were about.

[1:03:36] Like this is what the Salkins would have done with Superman

[1:03:39] if other people hadn't stepped in and be like,

[1:03:41] let's not do it this terrible way and maybe make a good movie.

[1:03:45] So, yeah, it's it's bananas.

[1:03:48] I had I had never seen this one until I was researching my previous book.

[1:03:53] Have yourself a movie, Little Christmas.

[1:03:54] And my jaw was on the floor.

[1:03:57] Couldn't believe this thing.

[1:03:59] Yeah. And if if you're like me and you like going to YouTube

[1:04:01] to watch the Christmas commercials of your youth,

[1:04:04] which is a really great nostalgia fix,

[1:04:08] there are these mid 80s like Kodak commercials that is just footage

[1:04:11] from this film with occasional like, you know, freeze frames

[1:04:15] as though some elf were taking like disc camera snapshots of each other or whatever.

[1:04:19] But I'm like, well, OK, got to use that footage.

[1:04:21] You built that set. You might as well.

[1:04:23] Yeah, this this movie, it's what you'd call like a grim cartoon.

[1:04:27] Like it's totally unrealistic and childlike.

[1:04:29] But it also but it's shot like a like the 80s movies

[1:04:33] that still kind of look like 70s movies.

[1:04:35] So like this kid is a Victorian urchin, but it looks like he lives in a grime

[1:04:39] and it's disgusting.

[1:04:40] And like the buildings all look kind of a little old and run down.

[1:04:44] And like it's they they it's like kind of shot to real.

[1:04:48] But it also exists in a world where a kid like takes a magic lollipop

[1:04:52] and suddenly he can float up to the cookie jar and just get waggles

[1:04:55] eyebrows at his mom like, oh, now I have control of the cookie.

[1:04:58] I put sorry.

[1:05:00] I was just saying I watch this on Peacock and there were commercials in there.

[1:05:04] And I feel like it enhanced the viewing experience.

[1:05:08] You could take BZ and put him right into Oliver Stone's Wall Street,

[1:05:12] I think, and he would sit right in.

[1:05:13] You've got the hair slick back, the whole thing going on.

[1:05:17] Well, guys, much like Santa Claus, we get letters.

[1:05:22] I'm like Santa Claus.

[1:05:24] Yeah, they aren't asking for ponies or X-Boxes or.

[1:05:29] Yeah, that's that's the plural of X-Boxes is

[1:05:32] to kind of hesitantly say, is this at the end?

[1:05:35] Well, I was going to add a number, but then I was like, I don't know.

[1:05:38] I'm not sure what the current version.

[1:05:43] I don't know what the X-Box is.

[1:05:44] It's the PlayStation five.

[1:05:45] Yeah, but Dan, I guess what you're saying is it's the most letterful time

[1:05:50] of the year.

[1:05:52] Everyone's mailing the letters and it's too bad it takes so long

[1:05:57] for us to get to the letters you sent us.

[1:06:01] Maybe they'll be relevant to this time of the year,

[1:06:05] but possibly not this year.

[1:06:09] It's the most letterful time of the decade.

[1:06:13] Hey, remember the 90s when people started emailing letters fell low,

[1:06:19] but now they're back.

[1:06:20] Letters are back on the show.

[1:06:23] It's the most letterful time of the eon.

[1:06:28] Dinosaurs didn't send so many letters those days and neither did molluscs.

[1:06:33] But in this time, geologically speaking,

[1:06:36] this blink of an eye in the face of the cosmos,

[1:06:40] it's the most letterful time there's ever been.

[1:06:44] I guess the invention of writing was really what made this possible

[1:06:48] for this to be the most letterful time of the eon, right?

[1:06:50] Yeah.

[1:06:52] Yep.

[1:06:52] So this letter goes like this.

[1:06:57] Don't ever change, Elliot.

[1:06:58] Oh, thanks. I can't. It's impossible.

[1:07:00] I've tried following, following in the tradition of generations

[1:07:04] of Jews before her.

[1:07:05] My daughter is entertaining the goyim during the Christmas season.

[1:07:09] In particular, she is performing in a local production of A Christmas Carol.

[1:07:14] She's never seen any of the movie adaptations.

[1:07:17] Which one do you recommend?

[1:07:18] Flop, bless us, everyone.

[1:07:21] Stage mom, last name withheld.

[1:07:24] I assume that we'll probably have a similar

[1:07:27] answer, but the Scrooge.

[1:07:29] Oh, I was going to I was going to say the Alistair Sim one is kind of generally

[1:07:32] accepted to be the best one.

[1:07:36] But if your daughter, you're going to say the Muppet Christmas Carol, huh?

[1:07:40] Well, yeah, if I'm saying if this

[1:07:44] if she's of an age that she does not like to watch old movies.

[1:07:48] I mean, I liked old movies as a kid, but a lot of kids don't.

[1:07:52] I mean, kids love kids.

[1:07:53] Love Alistair Sim is also part of it.

[1:07:56] They love Green for Danger.

[1:07:58] They love all that stuff.

[1:07:59] School for Scoundrels.

[1:08:00] What were you saying, Stuart?

[1:08:01] Scrooge, Scrooge with Bill Murray and Carol Kane.

[1:08:05] Yeah, that's the best one.

[1:08:06] It's got monsters in it.

[1:08:09] I mean, they all kind of monsters.

[1:08:10] They all go.

[1:08:11] But this one, this one is what's his name?

[1:08:14] Buster Poindexter.

[1:08:15] What's his name?

[1:08:16] Yeah, Buster Poindexter.

[1:08:17] Yeah. From from David Johansson.

[1:08:18] Yeah. Yeah.

[1:08:19] Yeah. Double thumbs up.

[1:08:20] I don't know what your problem is.

[1:08:24] Any other suggestions?

[1:08:26] I mean, I mean, what do you say, Alonzo?

[1:08:28] No, Alonzo, you're the you are.

[1:08:30] You're literally the you wrote the book on Christmas movies.

[1:08:33] I mean, Dan is right.

[1:08:34] The Alistair Sim version, I think, for the for the most part,

[1:08:37] is pretty much everybody's favorite and is considered to be one of the best ones.

[1:08:40] But if you're looking for a more recent one than that, although obviously for

[1:08:44] for anybody younger than me, this is an old movie.

[1:08:47] The 1984 made for TV version with George C.

[1:08:50] Scott is pretty great.

[1:08:52] He's a really good Scrooge.

[1:08:53] And it pretty much covers most of the bases from the the original story.

[1:08:57] And I'm personally a fan of the 1970 Scrooge with Albert Finney.

[1:09:03] It's a musical version songs actually written by and screenplay

[1:09:07] written by Leslie Bricus, who co-wrote the terrible songs in Santa Claus,

[1:09:11] the movie, but don't don't don't hold that against Scrooge.

[1:09:15] And it's going to be on Criterion Channel in December.

[1:09:18] But yeah, I think those are those are probably my my favorite ones.

[1:09:21] I'm trying to think of like a recent ish one that is pretty true.

[1:09:25] I mean, you could do the Patrick Stewart one from the late 90s, I guess.

[1:09:30] But it's a little it's a little dark.

[1:09:32] I didn't see that FX one.

[1:09:33] I tried a couple of times.

[1:09:34] It's just too much for me.

[1:09:36] And I've heard people find it to be excessively grim.

[1:09:39] Yeah. The guy, Guy Pearson, old man makeup to bring it back to that.

[1:09:43] Hell yeah. It's the only way he does it now.

[1:09:45] He only he only appears in old man makeup or having sex with Kate Winslet.

[1:09:48] That's the only way he appears in things now.

[1:09:50] So, yeah, and that was a show where he got to play his actual age.

[1:09:54] I thought that was pretty cool.

[1:09:55] Yeah. I mean, because usually he wears old age makeup and all of this stuff.

[1:09:58] Yeah. They let him pull off.

[1:10:00] Pull that makeup, they de-leto-fied him.

[1:10:02] I wonder, my kids, so I think sometimes about how different

[1:10:10] my kids' media viewing habits is than mine was.

[1:10:13] Where we live in a streaming world,

[1:10:15] they can watch whatever show they want, whenever they want.

[1:10:17] And they're not at the mercies of network scheduling.

[1:10:20] So when I was a kid, even as a Jewish kid,

[1:10:22] it was like I was bombarded with so much Christmas stuff.

[1:10:26] And I felt like every sitcom did their version

[1:10:28] of a Christmas carol.

[1:10:29] And it was either a Christmas carol

[1:10:31] or It's a Wonderful Life.

[1:10:32] Every sitcom did their version of that.

[1:10:34] And I wonder if, I don't think my kids, by their age,

[1:10:38] I think I had seen 400,000 adaptations

[1:10:41] of a Christmas carol.

[1:10:42] And I don't think they've seen anything, any.

[1:10:44] Maybe they've seen a Muppet Christmas carol,

[1:10:46] but I might have to introduce it to them.

[1:10:48] Because even though I don't care for Christmas,

[1:10:50] it's got lots of ghosts in it.

[1:10:52] And-

[1:10:53] Do you ever have to write like letters

[1:10:54] to Santa Claus in school and shit?

[1:10:56] Not in school.

[1:10:58] Okay.

[1:11:00] The weirdest thing I can think of is that in preschool,

[1:11:02] around Easter time, there was a thing

[1:11:03] where everyone was supposed to color in pictures

[1:11:05] of Easter baskets with different eggs.

[1:11:06] And they were like, well, you're Jewish,

[1:11:08] so we'll find something else for you to color in.

[1:11:09] And I was like, but I can color eggs.

[1:11:11] Like, I don't, it's not, I mean, we have eggs.

[1:11:14] We just, I would celebrate Easter,

[1:11:15] but Jews do have eggs, you know, but.

[1:11:18] How else would you make a blintz?

[1:11:20] Yeah, exactly, thank you.

[1:11:21] But I feel like there was such a,

[1:11:24] you could not escape Christmas when we were younger.

[1:11:27] Whereas now I feel like it's because

[1:11:29] of the way media has fractured, it's very escapable,

[1:11:31] you know, interesting.

[1:11:34] Interesting, well, let's go to this uncontroversial

[1:11:37] next letter titled,

[1:11:39] Elliot Kalin doesn't know anything about Star Wars.

[1:11:43] Interesting, all right, let's get it.

[1:11:45] Sick burn.

[1:11:45] That is the sickest burn, oh man, well let's.

[1:11:48] Dearest floppers, I've enjoyed your show for many years

[1:11:51] and it's been a real pleasure to listen

[1:11:53] to three friends chat about nonsense

[1:11:56] while I cleaned the house.

[1:11:57] I almost wrote in once before when Stewart explained

[1:12:00] the entirety of the Saw franchise for obvious reasons.

[1:12:04] See my full name below, let's look at.

[1:12:07] The Jigsaw, last name of hell?

[1:12:09] Yeah, yeah, yeah, Jigsaw McGraw, you know.

[1:12:14] Yeah.

[1:12:17] As a side note, I think there was an actual moment

[1:12:19] in that one where Stewart couldn't remember the name

[1:12:21] of the character Mark Hoffman,

[1:12:22] which is insane on several levels.

[1:12:24] I don't know why that's insane.

[1:12:25] I don't know, man.

[1:12:27] Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, let's.

[1:12:29] Okay, here's the main meat of the.

[1:12:31] Yeah, let's do it.

[1:12:32] Argument.

[1:12:34] Let's see.

[1:12:34] So if I didn't write in then, why would I write in now?

[1:12:37] Because of my shock on hearing the most recent episode

[1:12:40] of the Flophouse, episode 356,

[1:12:43] the very excellent Mr. Dundee,

[1:12:45] to find that Elliot Kalin,

[1:12:47] who has claimed to know about Star Wars,

[1:12:49] appears to have only been faking it the whole time.

[1:12:51] Memorizing fourth tier character names

[1:12:53] does not count as knowledge, Elliot.

[1:12:55] That's just trivia.

[1:12:57] Imagine my.

[1:12:58] So what is it?

[1:12:58] What is the thing that I,

[1:12:59] what is the thing I got wrong about Star Wars?

[1:13:01] Keeping in mind, I have so many things

[1:13:03] I have to keep on my mind these days.

[1:13:05] Imagine my shock when Elliot stated

[1:13:08] that Darth Vader was wasting his time

[1:13:10] chasing Princess Leia through her spaceship,

[1:13:12] when he had just blown her up.

[1:13:14] Why did he do it, Elliot?

[1:13:15] To find out the location of the Rebel base.

[1:13:19] That is the whole point of one of the most famous scenes

[1:13:21] of the movie, where Grand Moff Tarkin

[1:13:22] forces the confession out of her

[1:13:24] by threatening to blow up Alderaan.

[1:13:26] If he had just killed her,

[1:13:27] he would not have gotten that vital piece of information.

[1:13:30] If that's not enough, later in the same episode,

[1:13:32] Elliot claims that the movie takes place

[1:13:34] over the course of a few days.

[1:13:36] Elliot, how long do you think it takes

[1:13:38] to travel from one planet to another?

[1:13:40] As a rule in Star Wars,

[1:13:41] the Millennium Falcon was considered the fastest known ship,

[1:13:44] but even the Falcon going at top speed

[1:13:46] would take a few days to make from Tatooine to Alderaan.

[1:13:51] More importantly, the Death Star itself is much.

[1:13:53] There's literally nothing in the movie

[1:13:54] to support that reading.

[1:13:56] There's nothing in the movie to support the reading,

[1:13:58] and it takes them more than a day to get there.

[1:14:01] What about our Star Wars official Zoom groups?

[1:14:04] We're literally continuing the conversation

[1:14:06] that they had at the beginning.

[1:14:07] More importantly, the Death Star itself is much slower.

[1:14:11] It only has a class four hyperdrive

[1:14:13] compared to the Millennium Falcon's class 0.5.

[1:14:16] That's all explained in movie.

[1:14:18] For practical purposes, this means that even

[1:14:21] if the distance between the shattered remains of Alderaan

[1:14:24] and Yavin are the same as Alderaan and Tatooine,

[1:14:27] it only took the Falcon a few days to get there.

[1:14:29] We've taken the Death Star eight times as long,

[1:14:32] and they would have been able to only start traveling

[1:14:34] once the signal from the tracking beacon

[1:14:37] made it back to the Death Star, an unknown duration of time.

[1:14:40] Maybe I'll say this.

[1:14:41] Maybe I got thrown off by the fact

[1:14:42] that everyone only has one set of clothes

[1:14:44] to the point that when Han Solo returns as an old man,

[1:14:47] he is wearing the same outfit that he wore in this movie.

[1:14:51] There's no evidence on screen

[1:14:54] to make us believe that time has passed.

[1:14:56] This is a movie that very clearly uses wipes

[1:14:59] to suggest the passage of time

[1:15:01] and does not really do that so much in those scenes.

[1:15:03] But also, when Darth Vader's going after Princess Leia,

[1:15:07] they're just trying to get the plans to the Death Star.

[1:15:10] The only reason they care about the Rebel base

[1:15:12] is because they've got the Death Star plans, right?

[1:15:16] Maybe not, actually.

[1:15:17] I mean, I don't know.

[1:15:19] I kind of stopped paying attention.

[1:15:22] Look, look, this is signed

[1:15:23] Mark Total Badass, last name without.

[1:15:27] But I guess it is true that Princess Leia

[1:15:31] being the only Rebel who leaves home to go do anything,

[1:15:34] which they would have to ask her where the base is

[1:15:36] because there's no other Rebels

[1:15:38] in the universe that we see, so.

[1:15:41] I just want to go on the record and say very clearly

[1:15:43] that I don't know anything about Star Wars.

[1:15:46] Well, I don't know why you'd make that choice.

[1:15:48] You could get into arguments like this

[1:15:50] about how long it takes.

[1:15:51] Anybody wants to come at me, you're right,

[1:15:52] I don't know anything.

[1:15:54] About how long it takes for a fictional spaceship

[1:15:55] to get from one fictional planet to another fictional planet,

[1:15:58] especially when we've been shown in the movie

[1:16:00] that that spaceship has the ability

[1:16:01] to jump through hyperdrive from one planet

[1:16:04] to another very easily, so.

[1:16:06] Yeah.

[1:16:07] But anyway, he makes a good point.

[1:16:08] I don't know anything about Star Wars.

[1:16:09] You know why Elliot's getting so fucking defensive here?

[1:16:11] I actually don't know why either.

[1:16:12] Take your lumps, that's what he's saying.

[1:16:15] I just got to do it.

[1:16:16] I just got to take those lumps, that's true.

[1:16:18] Suck it up, dude.

[1:16:19] I think what it is is that this is,

[1:16:21] what it shows me is there is nothing

[1:16:23] I will ever have a complete enough command of

[1:16:25] that someone will not be able to be like,

[1:16:27] oh, what about this thing?

[1:16:29] And I'll be like, oh, I didn't think I cared about this,

[1:16:31] but now suddenly I do.

[1:16:33] Can they break down the whole licks

[1:16:36] to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop controversy?

[1:16:38] Because I really need some answers there.

[1:16:40] Well, the thing is, there's no,

[1:16:42] it's not within the canon commercial,

[1:16:45] but if you read the novelizations,

[1:16:47] you see that there's a lot more going on with the licks

[1:16:49] that in owl cultures, a bite counts as a lick.

[1:16:53] So, but it's a special extra lick you get

[1:16:56] after the third lick, which doesn't count as a lick.

[1:16:58] Anyway, that's just how it is.

[1:16:59] Who did that novelization?

[1:17:00] Was it R.A. Salvatore?

[1:17:02] It was Alan Dean Foster, and he's still arguing

[1:17:03] with Disney about getting royalty payments for it,

[1:17:06] which is disgusting on their part.

[1:17:08] So, Dan, any other letters challenging me

[1:17:11] on the biggest nonsense possible?

[1:17:15] No, no, no more nonsense letters.

[1:17:19] So, let's close up the mailbag.

[1:17:20] You know what?

[1:17:21] I rescind my song.

[1:17:22] Forget it.

[1:17:23] I'm rescinding my song.

[1:17:24] It's no longer the most letterful time

[1:17:26] of the eon or a year.

[1:17:27] Forget it.

[1:17:30] Hey, let's recommend some movies

[1:17:31] that you might want to watch instead of this piece

[1:17:35] of garbage.

[1:17:38] No, it's got its moments.

[1:17:40] No, Dan, don't worry.

[1:17:41] You don't have to defend, you don't have to soft pedal

[1:17:44] about certain questions.

[1:17:45] I suddenly just felt bad for John Lithgow,

[1:17:47] you know, who is-

[1:17:48] Don't be.

[1:17:48] He got paid for it.

[1:17:49] He's doing fine.

[1:17:51] If this was his last role, but he's had a long career,

[1:17:54] he does all sorts of stuff.

[1:17:55] He says when he goes to England,

[1:17:56] this is the movie that people tell him they love him in.

[1:18:00] Oh, wow.

[1:18:00] Yeah, go figure.

[1:18:02] I imagine that's why he played Winston Churchill

[1:18:04] on The Crown.

[1:18:05] He was like, I am going to make England think

[1:18:07] of other things about me.

[1:18:09] Yeah, I mean, he's giving a panto performance.

[1:18:11] I think that's the best defense you can do

[1:18:12] for what he's doing here.

[1:18:14] Yeah.

[1:18:14] I think he's giving exactly the performance

[1:18:17] that a movie called Santa Claus the Movie is calling for

[1:18:20] and it's villain, you know.

[1:18:22] I would like to recommend,

[1:18:27] a couple of days ago, I left the house, I went out,

[1:18:29] I saw Licorice Pizza, the new Pizza Anderson movie.

[1:18:35] It is,

[1:18:38] it's a movie that is,

[1:18:41] despite being, in many ways, the simplest story,

[1:18:45] very hard to describe.

[1:18:47] Like, it is filled with loosely connected incidents

[1:18:53] and it is mostly dependent on mood

[1:18:56] and it feels totally unpredictable

[1:18:59] while not doing anything particularly crazy at any point,

[1:19:04] but it just feels organic.

[1:19:06] It's a nice vibe to hang out in.

[1:19:08] I don't know, it's a movie that kind of was like,

[1:19:12] made me think like, oh yeah, movies can be like this.

[1:19:14] They can do this thing too.

[1:19:18] And I enjoy it.

[1:19:19] I mean, it has depictions of like racism

[1:19:29] and it has like romance kind of

[1:19:34] between a 15-year-old boy and a 25-year-old woman,

[1:19:39] but not really like a full-fledged romance,

[1:19:42] but like-

[1:19:43] Keep rationalizing.

[1:19:45] No, I just wanna highlight these things

[1:19:48] in case these are things that viewers are sensitive to.

[1:19:54] But I don't think that the movie is, I don't know.

[1:19:58] The movie's great.

[1:19:59] I just wanna make-

[1:20:00] sure that people are informed if that's something that would bother them, but I really loved

[1:20:07] it.

[1:20:08] Can't wait to see it.

[1:20:09] I'm going to recommend two quick reviews that you can find at your local video store.

[1:20:14] Just go to the blank of the blank section.

[1:20:16] The first one is Blade of the Immortal.

[1:20:19] It is the somewhat recent live action adaptation of the popular manga directed by the one,

[1:20:26] the only Takeshi Miyake.

[1:20:28] Hell yeah, baby.

[1:20:30] And it is like two and a half hours long, but it feels like it goes super fast.

[1:20:36] I read the comics like back in like high school and I loved them.

[1:20:41] And it was kind of fun remembering those and seeing how well like elements from those stories

[1:20:47] were all kind of crammed together in this movie.

[1:20:50] And of course Takeshi Miyake found like the wackiest, creepiest characters from the book

[1:20:55] and made sure that they looked exactly like that in the movie and it's got a great score.

[1:21:00] It's just great.

[1:21:01] I highly recommend it if you like samurai stuff.

[1:21:04] And the other movie I'm going to recommend is Climate of the Hunter from director Mickey

[1:21:09] Reese.

[1:21:10] It is this little micro budget thriller about two women who are living at like a vacation

[1:21:17] property and they are their sisters and they're catching up and they are catching up with

[1:21:22] an old friend.

[1:21:24] And there's a lot of tension and there's a feeling that somebody could be a vampire.

[1:21:29] Uh oh.

[1:21:31] But the costumes are great and the performances are all really fun.

[1:21:34] And it's nice and short.

[1:21:35] Climate of the Hunter.

[1:21:36] Thumbs up.

[1:21:37] You can also get sort of the valiant out of that section, but we wouldn't necessarily

[1:21:41] recommend that.

[1:21:42] Uh huh.

[1:21:43] Yeah.

[1:21:44] Thank you.

[1:21:45] And Land of the Lost.

[1:21:46] I'm blurbed on the back of the DVD of Land of the Lost.

[1:21:49] Wow.

[1:21:50] What did you say?

[1:21:51] What did they blurb you?

[1:21:52] I don't even remember.

[1:21:53] I was like, it was the most sort of like, it's kind of fun.

[1:21:55] Like it was not a rave review, but apparently they were so desperate for anybody to say

[1:21:59] anything positive.

[1:22:00] They're like, they got to me somehow.

[1:22:01] Oh, so it's one of these like just fun in quotes.

[1:22:05] Kind of.

[1:22:06] Yeah.

[1:22:07] Yeah.

[1:22:08] It's very, very short.

[1:22:09] Dot.

[1:22:10] Dot.

[1:22:11] Dot.

[1:22:12] Dot.

[1:22:13] Fun.

[1:22:14] There's no verb in there, if I recall correctly.

[1:22:15] I'm recommending, I think, uh, there might be possibly a theme to what Alonzo and I are

[1:22:20] going to recommend, possibly, if we had talked about it earlier, somewhat, uh, we're recording

[1:22:25] this just a few days after the death of Stephen Sondheim, who you're probably familiar with.

[1:22:30] If you're not, then it's, uh, then you have a real treat in store for you in looking at

[1:22:35] his work.

[1:22:36] It's hard to think of someone who's involved in the American theater and especially the

[1:22:40] American musical theater, who was like more amazing in the breadth and quality of his

[1:22:45] work and more important, especially in the second half of the 20th century.

[1:22:50] And so I wanted to recommend a very short movie because it was meant to be the pilot

[1:22:54] for a TV series that never happened.

[1:22:56] That's on Criterion Channel right now, which is called Original Cast Album Company, where

[1:23:00] it's directed by D.A.

[1:23:01] Pennebaker.

[1:23:02] And you know what that means?

[1:23:03] It's a documentary with no voiceover and you just got to watch the footage and figure out

[1:23:06] how it goes together.

[1:23:07] He's real puzzle master.

[1:23:08] That's why they used to call him Puzzle Master Pennebaker.

[1:23:11] And he also used to sell rules for a penny, which is also why they call him D.A.

[1:23:17] Pennebaker.

[1:23:18] He never knew the answers to anything.

[1:23:19] That's why they call him Don't Ask Pennebaker.

[1:23:21] Anyway, so he took his camera crew in to watch the recording of the original cast album for

[1:23:31] the show Company, which is one of Stephen Sondheim's big shows and very much one of

[1:23:36] the one of the first musicals to be about like real unhappy things that people go through.

[1:23:42] And it's just really amazing to watch people watch the performers having to perform these

[1:23:47] songs full tilt in a room with no audience because it's a recording studio and over and

[1:23:52] over again until the takes are good enough to be on.

[1:23:55] They keep saying this is the permanent record.

[1:23:57] This is the permanent record.

[1:23:58] This has got to be the best thing you can do of it.

[1:24:00] And and the highlight being watching Elaine Stritch, who is dressed like Mr. B. Natural

[1:24:06] from the Mystery Science Theater short Mr. B. Natural, struggling and then finally nailing

[1:24:10] one of the songs in it and seeing what's amazing in it to me.

[1:24:16] I was just rewatching it last night is seeing Stephen Sondheim, who for a decade, my entire

[1:24:21] life has been basically like the old man of American musical theater and like an institution,

[1:24:25] seeing him when he was trying something new and was still somewhat not more still somewhat

[1:24:32] the young guy who had written the lyrics for West Side Story and Gypsy not too long before

[1:24:37] and was now very and is very adamant with the performers about how he wants it done

[1:24:41] because this is his career and this is what he's trying to do and who knows if it's going

[1:24:45] to work or not.

[1:24:46] So seeing this guy who is now, you know, an institution at a time when he was still not

[1:24:53] struggling necessarily, but creatively pushing was really interesting, inspiring to me.

[1:24:58] So that's original cast album Company.

[1:25:02] And if that documentary sounds vaguely familiar to you because maybe you saw the documentary

[1:25:06] now parody version of the original cast album Co-op.

[1:25:10] If you buy the Blu-ray that Criterion has put out of this movie, it includes the documentary

[1:25:15] now episode and an interview with all the people who wrote and performed that and a

[1:25:20] new interview from the last within the last year or two with Sondheim himself.

[1:25:25] So as always, I'm about to push the physical media like it's worth hanging on to if you're

[1:25:30] a fan of this stuff because it's got a lot of goodies.

[1:25:33] And yeah, mine is also Sondheim related and is also relatively new on Blu-ray Warner Archive

[1:25:39] Collection just put out The Last of Sheila, which, you know, Sondheim's career obviously

[1:25:44] as a genius in the musical theater unparalleled, but he also really loves sort of puzzles and

[1:25:50] kind of, you know, would put together these really elaborate sort of scavenger hunts and

[1:25:56] games at parties for friends.

[1:25:58] And he and Anthony Perkins wrote this incredible mystery about a group of Hollywood types,

[1:26:05] a producer, director, writer, the writer's rich wife, a starlet, her volatile husband

[1:26:12] and an agent who all spend a vacation on the producer's yacht in the Riviera.

[1:26:17] They were all present when the producer's wife Sheila died one year earlier.

[1:26:21] And the producer has set up these very complicated games that he thinks is maybe going to sort

[1:26:25] of suss out who the actual killer is.

[1:26:27] And then things go in a totally off the rails direction.

[1:26:31] But it is funny and really like wonderfully complex and complicated the way a good sort

[1:26:38] of mystery puzzle game is.

[1:26:40] And it's the kind of movie where, frankly, you'll forget between viewings who the killer

[1:26:43] even is.

[1:26:44] And so it's all fun to watch over again.

[1:26:46] But the performances are great.

[1:26:47] It's like James Coburn and James Mason and Diane Cannon doing basically a Sue Menger's

[1:26:53] impersonation, if you know who she was, Hollywood super agent of the 70s, it was a riot.

[1:26:58] Richard Benjamin, Raquel Welch, Ian McShane, Joan Hackett.

[1:27:02] One of my favorite movies, a movie that Rian Johnson has talked a lot about as being one

[1:27:06] of the inspirations for Knives Out.

[1:27:08] And you can now get it on Blu-ray and you should, The Last of Sheila.

[1:27:13] You posted a picture, like a caricature of all those characters.

[1:27:17] Yeah, Al Hirschfeld did it when the movie came out and I had never seen that caricature

[1:27:20] until after Sondheim died.

[1:27:22] It was like, oh my God, because it's one of my favorite movies.

[1:27:25] And it's somehow I'd never seen that photo before.

[1:27:28] One of the first challenges in that, that he sets for him, the first puzzles I find

[1:27:32] so stressful.

[1:27:33] And I kept watching that movie.

[1:27:34] I'm just like, oh, if this puzzle was set before me and I think it's the first one,

[1:27:38] maybe I would have just been like, forget it.

[1:27:40] I can't do this.

[1:27:41] I'm just going to hang out on the boat.

[1:27:42] Like I can't.

[1:27:43] This is too, this is too complicated for me.

[1:27:45] But it's a super fun movie.

[1:27:49] Well, speaking of super fun movies, not this one, but we had a super fun guest.

[1:27:58] How about that for a segue?

[1:28:00] Wow.

[1:28:01] Wow.

[1:28:02] You were the king.

[1:28:03] Oh, wow.

[1:28:04] A segue, yeah.

[1:28:05] Alonso, do you have anything you want to plug?

[1:28:06] He just takes your hand and walks you to where he wants you to go.

[1:28:09] Call him Dean Kamen because he is inventing the segue.

[1:28:12] I need to plug Dan McCoy's famous podcaster school or I can learn moves like that.

[1:28:18] Well, we've certainly gone from A to Z and A is also the letter that starts our guest

[1:28:25] name.

[1:28:26] A to BZ.

[1:28:27] Yes, I have a new book out, as Elliot mentioned at the top of the show, I'll Be Home for Christmas

[1:28:32] Movies.

[1:28:33] I co-wrote it with the very funny guys over at the Deck the Hallmark podcast.

[1:28:36] It's got reviews of more than a hundred Hallmark Christmas movies.

[1:28:40] But from the point of view of three guys who one of them loves them, one of them likes

[1:28:43] them, one of them despises them.

[1:28:44] So however you feel about those films, somebody in the book will have your back.

[1:28:49] Also recipes on how to throw your own Hallmark Christmas party, bingo cards, a lot of other

[1:28:54] fun stuff.

[1:28:55] I'm really proud of it and happy with how it came out.

[1:28:58] I think it's a great gift if you have somebody in your life who's super into Hallmark stuff

[1:29:01] or likes to dunk on Hallmark movies, I think they'd get a kick out of it.

[1:29:05] And then I also wrote a book a while back that you can still get called Have Yourself

[1:29:09] a Movie Little Christmas, which is a guidebook to more films like Santa Claus the movie,

[1:29:15] but also everything from Elf to Eyes Wide Shut in terms of films that are set at Christmas

[1:29:21] that deal with Christmas.

[1:29:22] So that's still out there in the world.

[1:29:24] And then, yeah, I write for The Wrap.

[1:29:26] I'm the film reviews editor there and I have quite a few podcasts, Linoleum Knife with

[1:29:31] my husband Dave White here on the Maximum Fun Network.

[1:29:34] You can hear me on Maximum Film with Iffy Wadaway, Andrea Clark, and of course Breakfast

[1:29:39] All Day with Christy Lemire and Matt Achete.

[1:29:41] If you used to listen to me on a show called What the Flick, we're now doing it under the

[1:29:45] name Breakfast All Day, so please check us out there.

[1:29:48] And yeah, I'm just always delighted to be on the show, long-time fan, and y'all are

[1:29:54] always just a blast to hang out with.

[1:29:56] Thanks.

[1:29:57] Well, you're always a great guest.

[1:29:58] We love having you.

[1:30:00] that I would say you should check out.

[1:30:01] I'm a particular fan of linoleum knife.

[1:30:03] That's a favorite of mine.

[1:30:05] This is one of our newer traditions

[1:30:07] and I'm a big fan of it.

[1:30:09] Thank you for coming out.

[1:30:10] We just hope Dudley Moore comes out

[1:30:11] with a Christmas movie next year.

[1:30:12] So we can-

[1:30:13] Fingers crossed.

[1:30:14] Fingers crossed.

[1:30:15] For Elton's food.

[1:30:16] Yeah.

[1:30:17] But while we are thanking folks,

[1:30:21] let's thank Alex Smith.

[1:30:23] Look at-

[1:30:24] Still got it.

[1:30:25] Look at thanking science monster over here.

[1:30:26] Just with the segues, yeah.

[1:30:28] Alex Smith, our producer.

[1:30:31] Hell yeah.

[1:30:31] Thank you for all the work you do.

[1:30:34] Especially last week we did a mini

[1:30:37] where Stu ran us through a role-playing game

[1:30:40] where we're cartoon dogs

[1:30:41] and Alex went above and beyond.

[1:30:42] Oh yeah.

[1:30:44] Sound effects and music and a new-

[1:30:46] Gave him a bone and ran with it.

[1:30:47] New ranch for the theme song.

[1:30:49] Thank you to Maximum Fun.

[1:30:52] They have one of Alonzo's shows.

[1:30:55] They've got a bunch of other great shows.

[1:30:59] Go over to maximumfun.org to check them out.

[1:31:02] But now for the Flophouse, I've been Dan McCoy.

[1:31:05] I'm still Stuart Wellington.

[1:31:07] I'm Elliot Kalin.

[1:31:09] Oh, and I'm Alonzo Duralde.

[1:31:11] Yes.

[1:31:13] Bye.

[1:31:14] Bye.

[1:31:15] Bye.

[1:31:16] Bye.

[1:31:17] Bye.

[1:31:18] Bye.

[1:31:19] Bye.

[1:31:20] Bye.

[1:31:21] Bye.

[1:31:22] Bye.

[1:31:23] Bye.

[1:31:24] Bye.

[1:31:25] Bye.

[1:31:26] Bye.

[1:31:27] Bye.

[1:31:29] I don't, unless, I guess, does anyone,

[1:31:31] unless anyone here objects?

[1:31:33] Speak now or forever hold your peace?

[1:31:36] Yeah, okay.

[1:31:39] Maximumfun.org.

[1:31:40] Comedy and culture.

[1:31:42] Artist owned, audience supported.

Ep. #357 - Santa Claus: The Movie, with Alonso Duralde

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