Ep. #358 - Grand Isle

Elliott Kalan

[0:00] On this episode, we discuss Grand Isle.

[0:04] Also known as Accents, the movie.

Dan McCoy

[0:30] Hello, everyone, and Merry Cagemas.

[0:37] Oh, I'm Dan McCoy.

Stuart Wellington

[0:41] I'm Stuart Wellington.

[0:44] I'm just regular Elliot Kaylin.

[0:45] I'm not a ghost or a Santa or any of those things.

[0:49] Okay.

[0:49] Just a regular old guy.

[0:51] I mean, I feel like part of, I think at its heart, this show is an improv podcast, and Elliot just fucked it up.

Elliott Kalan

[0:58] I did not doubt the reality that either of you guys were living in.

[1:03] I'm the character in the SNL sketch who's like, what?

[1:07] That's crazy.

[1:08] Huh?

[1:08] Why would you do that?

[1:09] You know, the character you don't need because it's the joke.

Stuart Wellington

[1:12] It's an audience surrogate.

[1:13] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:14] Finally, there's a character in the sketch that's expressing what I want to know.

[1:18] Wow.

[1:18] Elliot Kaylin's dismissing the concept of the straight man outright.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23] No, no, no, no, no, Daniel.

[1:24] No, no, no.

[1:25] There's a difference between a straight man and a character.

Stuart Wellington

[1:27] I think the straight man has had enough say in Hollywood, don't you think, Dan?

[1:32] Let's hear it for the boy.

[1:33] I think not.

Elliott Kalan

[1:34] What?

[1:35] A clapping hands emoji, clapping hands emoji.

[1:38] Great.

[1:39] Dan, I think the difference is the straight man in a sketch is usually the one who is annoyed by what's going on.

[1:43] Whereas the straight man in a lot of the older SNL sketches, I don't know if they still do it.

[1:47] I haven't watched the show in a long time.

[1:48] Will, is there to kind of point out to the audience that there is a premise and to make sure the audience didn't miss what's going on?

Dan McCoy

[1:55] To be honest, sometimes I need the premise, the fact that there's a premise pointed out to me because occasionally they'll put on a sketch where they appear to shift premises every few minutes.

[2:06] That alarms me.

[2:08] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[2:08] Hey, if you can't deal with the new TikTokification of SNL where it's just a new piece of content every couple of seconds, then I guess I'll leave it up to the young people like me and Stu.

Stuart Wellington

[2:16] Exactly.

[2:17] Yeah.

[2:17] I mean, I need all of my content to be immediately GIF-ified or JIF-ified, which is it, Dan?

Elliott Kalan

[2:22] Well, GIF-ified is when it's animated and JIF-ified is when it becomes peanut butter.

[2:27] Delicious.

[2:28] Well, as you know, Gout.

[2:30] But not loud in schools anymore.

Stuart Wellington

[2:32] Thanks, Obama.

[2:33] No, no.

[2:34] As you know.

Dan McCoy

[2:35] As you no doubt guessed by now, this is a podcast about bad movies.

[2:41] Not a bad movie.

[2:42] If it was about one bad movie, that would probably be the worst idea of all time.

[2:44] But instead, it's about many bad movies.

[2:47] It's called The Flop House.

Elliott Kalan

[2:47] Now, do you mean it would be the worst idea of all time or it would be the podcast, the worst idea of all time?

[2:51] The podcast, the worst idea of all time.

[2:52] Okay.

[2:52] Who are a sponsor of the show, I guess.

Dan McCoy

[2:54] I guess.

[2:55] You know, check them out.

[2:56] They're funny, too.

[2:57] But the point is, check out Rising Tide.

[2:58] No, no.

[2:59] Listen to this show.

[3:00] Don't stop listening to this and go to another podcast.

[3:02] I don't say stop listening.

[3:02] Rising Tide lifts all ships.

[3:04] Let's get the idea of podcasts out there into the meat space.

Stuart Wellington

[3:06] Take it.

[3:07] Yeah.

[3:07] Click it on your desktop.

[3:08] Drag the low icon to trash and then hit delete Flop House forever.

[3:12] Anyway.

[3:13] No.

Dan McCoy

[3:13] The point is, this is a Flop House.

Elliott Kalan

[3:17] This is fair, dude.

[3:19] Your Honor, I'll allow it.

[3:21] There's nothing undrew about that.

[3:23] Wait a minute.

Stuart Wellington

[3:24] Wait.

[3:25] Is the judge a dog, too?

[3:27] This seems unfair.

Elliott Kalan

[3:28] So, and probably not only is this.

[3:31] Your Honor, certainly a dog can't practice law and the judge goes, because it's also a dog.

[3:36] Oh, man.

[3:37] Wait a minute.

Stuart Wellington

[3:37] How deep into the Air Bud series is it where Air Bud is now a judge?

Elliott Kalan

[3:42] Yeah, yeah.

[3:43] It's when the Air Bud and the Lincoln lawyer crossed over.

[3:47] So, wait.

[3:48] Now, the weird thing is he's Judge Dredd, but he's a dog.

[3:51] Hmm.

[3:52] Now, here's my question.

[3:53] So, William Wegman, he did those pictures where he dresses up his dogs in clothes.

[3:57] How come you never dressed them up in, like, costume costumes, like superhero costumes?

[4:00] Off the rails.

[4:01] Wouldn't you want to see, like, a big dog dressed up as, like, the Joker or something like that?

[4:07] Yes, always.

Stuart Wellington

[4:08] Yeah.

[4:08] What do you think Jokerfied that dog?

Elliott Kalan

[4:11] Probably that he was the Joker's dog.

Stuart Wellington

[4:13] We live in a pack.

[4:14] Yeah.

[4:15] Yeah, thank you.

Dan McCoy

[4:16] Well done.

[4:17] This is a podcast, and probably based on all that nonsense and foo-for-ram, it's a reasonably successful one.

[4:26] And the premise is we watch a bad movie, and then we talk about it.

[4:32] And Dan, tell us about Cagemas.

[4:34] Cagemas is a special time of year where we honor St. Nicholas Cage, who is a great actor who's known for giving—

[4:43] On a hot streak right now, if you ask me.

[4:44] Big performances.

[4:45] Yeah.

[4:46] But until—I mean, like, he seems to be coming out of it now.

[4:50] Maybe he's out of his financial difficulties.

[4:52] Until recently, he had not been making the best choices.

[4:56] I say this because I don't want to contribute to, like, this memification of Cage where we're like, oh, what a crazy guy.

[5:05] Like, is he a bad actor?

[5:06] He's a great actor.

[5:07] I mean, go watch Pig, and you'll see.

Elliott Kalan

[5:11] Long-time listeners—don't listen to the Overkill song, Pig, which is a great song, but it's not related to the movie in any way.

[5:16] A long-time listeners of this podcast will know our stance on Nicolas Cage is that he is a great actor who does not always know the best way to channel the amazing amounts of acting energy that he has.

[5:29] Much like Havoc, the X-Men character who must wear a special costume to contain the cosmic energies that he's always absorbing.

[5:36] Nicolas Cage is kind of like that with acting energy.

[5:38] Hey, Elliot.

[5:40] Well known that—

Stuart Wellington

[5:40] Elliot, when you fill out one of those based on your answers to these questions, which X-Men character are you?

Dan McCoy

[5:47] Because I usually get, like, Havoc.

[5:49] Usually.

[5:50] You do?

Stuart Wellington

[5:50] I fill out a lot of these because the first time I got Havoc, I'm like, oh, that sucks.

[5:54] He just explains his powers and then never uses them.

Elliott Kalan

[5:57] I mean, because he's so scared of them.

[5:59] He's always living in his brother's shadow, too.

[6:00] I know.

[6:01] Well, I mean, you know that I'm probably Nightcrawler or Beast.

[6:04] I've got to be blue and furry.

[6:05] That's me.

[6:06] That's the life of a Jewish person, blue and furry.

[6:09] Anyway, so—well, the furry part.

[6:11] So the—but Nicolas Cage, it's well known.

[6:14] He had a lot of financial issues for a while.

[6:15] He didn't pay his taxes.

[6:17] So he kind of had to take whatever movie was thrown his way.

[6:19] And lately he hasn't been doing as much of that, which is great.

[6:22] Or maybe it's just that people are learning how to use him again, you know, after his earlier—

Stuart Wellington

[6:26] Not to do another tangent, but Dan, I think you and I should identify and celebrate Elliot's growth by saying that he needs to be blue and furry.

[6:33] And then he did not say, da-boo-dee-da-boo-dao.

[6:36] Yeah, I was waiting for it.

Dan McCoy

[6:38] Did not happen.

[6:40] And, you know, Elliot, the intervention we staged obviously—

[6:44] Paid off, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[6:45] I remember very well.

[6:46] You each told me how I'd hurt you by continuing to tell you that I'm blue.

[6:49] Da-boo-dee-da-boo-dae.

[6:51] Da-boo-dee-da-boo-dae.

Stuart Wellington

[6:52] And in the middle of it, Elliot went into the bathroom and started—we could clearly hear him sing that song.

[6:57] Yeah.

[6:58] Sadly to himself.

Elliott Kalan

[6:59] Yeah, but I'm trying to get better and better every day.

[7:02] It's a process.

[7:03] So, Nicolas Cage, he's great, and we like to celebrate him at least twice a year.

[7:08] And so we watched a Nicolas Cage movie, right?

[7:10] But we had to dig back a couple years.

[7:12] There was a time when we had a bounty of Nicolas Cage needs to pay his bills movies, usually shot in Eastern Europe for very little money and released on VOD to dig through.

[7:21] But lately, like we were saying, he's been on an upswing.

[7:24] He had Pig, and he had other things probably.

[7:27] Color Out of Space was good.

Stuart Wellington

[7:29] Oh, yeah.

[7:29] Color Out of Space.

[7:30] Yeah.

[7:31] He's going to play Dracula, right?

[7:33] Mm-hmm.

Dan McCoy

[7:34] That sounds great.

[7:35] I mean, going back a little further, you got Mandy.

[7:38] You got Into the Spider-Verse, obviously.

[7:41] Into the Spider-Verse.

[7:42] Good stuff lately.

Elliott Kalan

[7:43] And we have Grand Isle.

[7:44] It's all great.

[7:45] Yeah.

[7:46] Well, I don't know.

[7:46] So, Dan, what brought you to our movie this week?

[7:51] Grand Isle.

[7:52] Because you were like, we got to see this one, boys.

[7:54] Oh, wow.

[7:56] And you had dollar signs in your eyes, and then your mouth hung open, and your tongue rolled up out, and you hit yourself in the head with a mallet, and then your tongue rolled back up again.

Stuart Wellington

[8:03] And his tongue was a giant dollar bill, but it was clearly a novelty dollar bill, so we could use it on camera.

Elliott Kalan

[8:09] Yeah, exactly.

[8:10] It was like the money in the wire, which always looks super fakey.

[8:13] Like they just photocopied a drawing of a dollar bill.

[8:16] Yeah.

[8:16] So, Dan, what was it about Grand Isle?

[8:18] Well, you know, so.

[8:20] Other than the fact that everything about this movie screams thick gumbo of accents.

Dan McCoy

[8:24] Listeners may know that I'm the one of the three of us who, in his personal non-flophouse life, still sort of maintains a dedication to trash in my movies.

[8:39] Even though I am the oldest and theoretically have the least time to waste on this earth.

Elliott Kalan

[8:44] Yeah, that's very true.

[8:46] And to put it into layman's terms that everyone will understand, if Dan was walking by the classic East Village clothing store trash in vaudeville, he'd say, I don't need vaudeville.

[8:55] Just give me trash.

[8:56] No, you know me, Elliot.

[8:58] I would want the vaudeville, too.

[8:59] Yeah, actually, Dan would like the vaudeville, too.

[9:01] Actually, Dan's ideal vaudeville show would be like probably some comedy jugglers from the 30s pretending that there's a ghost in the room,

[9:10] and then just like an alien having sex with a woman and someone shooting the head off a monster.

[9:14] Like that would be Dan's ideal vaudeville.

Dan McCoy

[9:17] I find it very strange to think that there's anyone in the world who wouldn't be entertained by all of that.

[9:23] But anyway, the point is I had read reviews of this a ways back when it came out,

[9:30] and I like a big slab of southern fried ham in my movies.

[9:36] And also seeing that not only Nick Cage was in this, but also Kelsey Grammer felt like a good woman for our podcast.

Stuart Wellington

[9:44] Wait, are you saying the rumble from Money Plane is in this movie?

Elliott Kalan

[9:51] What's weird is so Kelsey Grammer is slowly turning into the late Senator Fred Thompson,

[9:58] who was like an acting senator.

[10:00] And in this movie, there were times where I was like, how did they get Fred Thompson?

[10:03] He died years ago.

[10:03] Oh, wait, it's Kelsey Grammer.

[10:04] Hold on a second.

[10:05] Wait.

[10:07] That's true.

[10:07] And there's also – and the other actors in the movie I also – I wasn't super familiar with,

[10:11] but they also are very heavy southern accented.

[10:15] Like to – and the writing of this movie, you literally have a person, a woman in a bathtub saying to a man,

[10:21] why is you standing there like a tree in the woods?

[10:23] And it's like, come on.

[10:24] There's so much – there's so much – it's a real – like what would you call it?

[10:32] Tennessee Williamsploitation movie?

Dan McCoy

[10:34] Yeah.

[10:35] It's like – it is – it's southern gothic crossed with, you know, noir up until the end,

[10:42] which I'm sure we'll get to, where the movie flies straight off the rails into something I'm not quite sure I understand.

[10:48] Into something really unpleasant.

Stuart Wellington

[10:49] It's kind of like the James Hurley bit from the end of the first – what, the second season of Twin Peaks mixed with people under the stairs.

[10:59] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[11:01] Yeah, it's – see, and I thought – this movie, it really kept surprising me, not in a pleasant way.

Dan McCoy

[11:08] You thought it was going to be a video game created by a son who wanted to reconnect with his father.

[11:15] Yes.

Elliott Kalan

[11:15] Oh, that's what I wanted – in which his dad has sex with a bunch of people.

[11:19] Yeah.

[11:19] And jumps naked into the ocean scrotum first.

[11:22] Yeah.

[11:22] But we're talking, of course, about the movie – what was it called?

[11:26] Serenity.

[11:26] Not the –

[11:27] Serenity.

[11:28] Serentity?

[11:28] Not the Firefly movie.

[11:29] I wanted to call it Justice Fish because there's a fish called Justice in it, right?

[11:34] A Fish Called Justice?

[11:35] Then that's a title.

[11:37] Yeah.

[11:37] A Fish Called Justice is the sequel to A Fish Called Wanda where they're all cops now.

[11:41] Oh, wow.

[11:41] That's too bad.

[11:42] I don't think it's going to play well for test audiences.

Stuart Wellington

[11:44] And the judge is a dog.

[11:46] Oh, okay.

Elliott Kalan

[11:46] It starts out seeming like it's going to be like a southern crime noir thing.

[11:50] Then it's going to be like a sexual thriller.

[11:52] Then it's going to – then it turns into an action movie kind of and then by the end it's a horror movie.

[11:58] But also it is such a – like you could have taken this same script and shot it and it released it.

[12:06] You shot it in the 70s and released it into like a grindhouse movie in Times – a theater in Times Square.

[12:10] And I don't think you would have – I mean you changed the – not I guess topical references because it takes place in 1988.

[12:15] But the whole time I was watching I was like, oh, yeah.

[12:18] This is what it was like to watch like – to unironically watch like a grindhouse movie in a movie theater where you feel gross the whole time.

[12:25] Like there's sludge on you.

Dan McCoy

[12:27] Well, also I – I mean this will make a little more sense once we've gotten into it.

[12:32] But as long as we're talking like meta things about the movie.

[12:35] Yeah.

[12:36] The – I've seen this bit of trivia written up a couple places on the internet.

[12:40] I don't know whether it's true or not.

[12:42] But supposedly the screenplay was originally called Fancy Buddy and Mr. Walter.

[12:49] Fancy Buddy and Mr. Walter.

[12:51] Now –

[12:52] Shit.

Elliott Kalan

[12:52] I wonder.

[12:53] I mean but I also saw a trivia that said Nicolas Cage ad-libbed all his lines, which I do not think is true.

[12:58] No, that seems –

[12:58] Because there's plot information.

[12:59] But there is one line I'm going to highlight ahead of time.

[13:02] There's a few that he probably did.

[13:04] There's one line where he's – so Nicolas Cage's character is talking to the hero?

[13:07] Question mark buddy.

[13:09] And he says, so how long has it been since you had your cock a-thucked?

[13:14] And he's like, what?

[13:16] And it's almost like Nicolas Cage in that moment cannot believe what he's saying and the words jump out of him without him even realize.

[13:22] It's awesome.

[13:22] And it's only while he's saying it that he's like, what am I saying?

[13:26] So that was a moment that's almost worth watching the movie.

[13:29] Oh, I just met this man.

Stuart Wellington

[13:29] Oh, it's awesome.

[13:30] Sir, this is a Wendy's.

[13:33] Sir, sir, sir, sir.

Elliott Kalan

[13:34] I just wanted to know if you wanted a king-size or a queen-size bed.

[13:37] It's the Marriott.

Stuart Wellington

[13:38] Okay, stick with me, guys.

[13:39] Elliot, you're suggesting that this could have been a Grindhouse or like a late-night Cinemax movie in the 90s maybe.

[13:44] I'm going to cast that fucker right now.

[13:47] Walter is George Hamilton.

[13:49] Fancy is Shannon Tweed.

[13:52] Buddy is Billy Zane.

[13:53] Boom, scored that shit.

[13:55] Yep, you got it.

Elliott Kalan

[13:57] That's amazing.

[13:59] A flawless victory that's on at 1.30 in the morning on Cinemax.

[14:03] But here's the problem.

[14:04] Here's the problem.

[14:05] In the TV guide it says nudity, which means a shot of someone's butt, not sexual situations, which means a lot of nudity.

[14:11] So, Dan?

Dan McCoy

[14:12] Well, I just – my one problem, I –

[14:15] We should talk – I'll go into what the movie is about too, so I understand what we're talking about.

[14:18] I feel like Billy Zane seems too like – both too smart for this part and too much like he would be the one embroiling you in a web of sexual desire.

[14:31] I guess that's true.

Stuart Wellington

[14:32] It's funny how amazing casting can sometimes improve a movie.

Dan McCoy

[14:36] Oh, okay.

[14:36] Like I just did.

[14:37] No, I do think that one of the major problems with this movie is our ostensible lead is the charisma.

[14:46] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[14:47] Black hole in the film.

Stuart Wellington

[14:47] Well, when he has the amount of like sexual chemistry with Fancy as say like the chemistry between the entire cast of the movie Red Notice.

Dan McCoy

[14:56] And I know you're confused.

[14:58] Fancy is not a golden retriever.

[15:00] Fancy is the name of the female lead in the movie.

Elliott Kalan

[15:03] Well, the name of the character.

Dan McCoy

[15:05] Yes, the name of the character.

[15:06] It's Katie Strickland who apparently was on a bunch of private practice.

[15:11] That seemed to be her largest credit.

Stuart Wellington

[15:14] But no, I just – Fancy sounds like a show dog name to me.

[15:17] And she's not the problem in this.

[15:19] I feel like the putty is the problem.

[15:22] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[15:22] Well, and there's a number of problems with the movie.

[15:24] Let's go through it and we'll talk about it, okay?

[15:26] So we start out.

[15:28] There's a creepy, well-dressed woman in a big house.

[15:33] That's fancy.

[15:34] We'll find out later.

[15:35] She buys some Girl Scout cookies.

[15:38] She buys some Girl Scout cookies very creepily at her door.

[15:42] This does not play much into the rest of the movie, but I guess it just establishes that there's a creepy lady who –

[15:47] It's foreshadowing.

[15:48] It's foreshadowing, I guess.

[15:49] But we never see those cookies again.

[15:51] So it's not like –

[15:52] Oh, that's what you're –

Dan McCoy

[15:52] You're like, what's going on with those Thin Mints?

Stuart Wellington

[15:57] Yeah.

[15:57] That's your go-to or is it Samoas?

Dan McCoy

[15:59] I like a Samoa.

[16:01] I just thought that Thin Mint was like a more accessible comedy choice.

[16:05] I don't know.

[16:06] That's fair.

[16:07] That's very fair.

Elliott Kalan

[16:08] And do they still call them Samoas?

Dan McCoy

[16:12] That's a good question.

Elliott Kalan

[16:13] Google it.

[16:13] Okay.

[16:14] Audience at home, Google it and write in to us at –

[16:16] Do they still call it Samoas?

[16:18] Care of the Flophouse.

[16:20] Dan's real address, Brooklyn, New York.

[16:23] United States of America.

[16:24] I guess that is my real address.

[16:26] Yeah.

[16:27] So then it's nighttime.

[16:30] We see that it's 1988 and a thief is breaking into the house of Nicolas Cage.

[16:34] How do we see that?

Stuart Wellington

[16:35] Do we see it because they're watching a TV show that's only on in 1988?

[16:38] Yeah.

[16:38] Are they doing Rubik's Cube?

Elliott Kalan

[16:40] No, it's just the numbers 1988 appear on screen.

[16:43] That's the extent of it.

[16:44] And I guess the TVs we see are all tube TVs.

[16:50] Nobody answers a cell phone.

[16:52] Nobody has a cell phone.

[16:54] Nobody Googles anything.

[16:55] Nobody has a digi-pad.

[16:57] Yeah.

[16:57] You know?

[16:58] By the way, I want to make it clear.

Dan McCoy

[16:59] I know that Rubik's Cube is an earlier 80s thing.

[17:02] But they were still around.

[17:04] It was like – I feel like that's the lazy movie's way of showing you that you're in the 80s.

Elliott Kalan

[17:10] Yeah.

[17:11] So Nicolas Cage, who will later learn, is Walter.

[17:14] He's also – so I forgot at a certain point this movie was set in the 80s and he starts talking about being in Vietnam and I was like, there's no way he's old enough to have been in Vietnam.

[17:22] Oh, wait a second.

[17:22] This movie is set in the 80s.

[17:24] So that night, a thief breaks into Walter's house.

[17:27] He gets up in his bathrobe and pajamas and takes a gun out.

Stuart Wellington

[17:30] He opens up his bedside drawer that has only like a few items of jewelry and a pistol.

Elliott Kalan

[17:36] And a loaded pistol.

[17:38] And he goes down and he tells the thief, you just broke into the wrong house.

[17:41] The thief – they start fighting.

[17:42] The thief escapes.

[17:44] But as he is about to jump over the fence and get away from the property, Nicolas Cage shoots him in the back from a distance, thus maybe killing him.

[17:51] We don't know.

Stuart Wellington

[17:52] And he does a little bit of banter, right?

[17:54] It's a little bit of like a little like most dangerous game shit here, huh?

Elliott Kalan

[17:59] Yes.

[17:59] The implication seems to be – the implication later on seems to be that they like lured him in somehow.

[18:05] But we never see that, this thief.

[18:07] It's just a random thief.

[18:08] It's not James Caan from the movie Thief.

[18:10] You don't hear any music from Tangerine Dream.

[18:12] It's just a regular old thief in a very recognizable hoodie.

[18:17] Okay, cut to Buddy, our hero, played by Luke Benward.

[18:21] And you'll have to know if you ever need to go north, just notice which star is pointing Benward and that's the way that you want to go.

[18:28] So he's being interrogated by – that's right, Kelsey Grammer who is just chomping off pieces of this southern fried steak that he's got.

[18:37] And I mean that metaphorically.

[18:38] Like he's so – there's a part where – there's this line where later on he's like, where do you think you are?

[18:43] New York, LA?

[18:44] This is Grand Isle.

[18:46] What is a ute?

[18:49] How many R's did he stuff into the word Grand Isle?

[18:52] And this thing – it's just – he's really – he's really doing it up.

[18:58] Kelsey Grammer, I assumed all of the scenes were shot in one location the same day.

[19:02] But he shows up at the end of the movie in a second location.

[19:04] So he might have been there for two days.

[19:07] And he's like – oh, he says, you've been arrested for murder.

[19:11] And I thought – it was so – it took me so long to realize that Buddy was not supposed to be the thief from the first scene.

[19:16] Like it's not super clear.

[19:17] He goes, you've been arrested for murder.

Dan McCoy

[19:19] You got to tell me what happened because right now you're going to take – you're going to the chair.

Elliott Kalan

[19:23] And we have a flashback.

[19:24] Fried fried potatoes.

[19:27] Yeah, it's a sling blade and so forth.

[19:30] Buddy is trying to – he's trying to interest a guy who's just trying to sit at a lunch counter and investing in some kind of project.

[19:36] We need to find out what it is.

[19:38] The guy at the counter has no lines.

[19:40] But Buddy follows him into the restaurant and keeps talking to him while he looks at the menu.

[19:43] Buddy says, I'll talk to me about it later.

[19:45] Buddy then goes to see his wife and baby who are in the restaurant already sitting in a booth.

[19:51] Convenient.

Stuart Wellington

[19:52] He should abandon them to –

[19:54] I got to say, if you're going to set up your day, you might as well stack it like that.

Elliott Kalan

[19:58] It's like, well, I'm going to meet this guy at his office.

[20:01] But at a certain point, he's going to get fed up with me and escape to the local diner.

[20:04] You go to the diner and I'll meet you there.

[20:06] Their baby is sick, which is identified by coughing sometimes.

[20:10] And they need money.

[20:11] Buddy refuses to let his wife work and they haven't had sex in six months, which becomes a big plot point because she's still dealing with having had a baby.

[20:21] She seems to be dealing with some kind of postpartum depression, very common.

[20:25] And there's a lot of tension between them because he has not gotten his beak wet in six months.

[20:31] Wow.

[20:31] Sure.

[20:32] His beak.

[20:33] Yeah.

[20:34] Well, I assumed that – I assumed he was uncircumcised.

[20:38] So it was more of a beak than a circumcised penis.

[20:40] A Beakman's world.

[20:42] Exactly.

[20:43] Was that what Beakman's world was about?

[20:45] Yeah.

[20:45] Big surprise, right?

[20:47] Yeah, that's what Beakman Place in New York is named after penises.

[20:51] So Buddy, he goes to fix the – he gets hired to fix the fence at Nicolas Cage's house.

[20:56] And Nicolas Cage is just kind of chuckling, lighting a cigar.

[20:59] Nicolas Cage always has a cigar either in his mouth or about to go in his mouth in this movie.

[21:03] Oh, boy, yeah.

[21:05] And it's the fence that the thief broke and Nicolas Cage, they banter over how Nicolas Cage is an ex-Marine and Buddy was in the Navy.

[21:14] And how much he's going to pay him for the fence if he can get it done today.

[21:18] And meanwhile, Nicolas Cage's wife, Fancy, whose real name is – do you remember what her – it was like Francine something something, but they call her Fancy.

[21:27] I missed that part.

Stuart Wellington

[21:29] And I got to say, these two are totally giving off that like me and my wife saw you at the end of the bar and we're like your vibe energy, you know?

[21:36] Like Nicolas Cage has his button down, button down a little bit too far and Fancy is very, very, I guess, explicit in her overtures.

Dan McCoy

[21:46] Right.

[21:46] I mean they're constantly arguing with each other, Nicolas Cage's wife, but in that way that it feels like maybe it's part of their sex game.

Elliott Kalan

[21:56] It's a real who's afraid of Virginia Woolf type.

[21:58] It's like who's afraid of Virginia – who's afraid of Virginia Woolf?

[22:03] Because it's the south, you know, because it's Louisiana.

[22:07] Who's afraid of Dr. John?

[22:08] That's the name of the –

[22:09] A lot of Virginia Woolf out in that swamp.

[22:12] Oh, well, well.

[22:14] See, what a dump.

[22:16] What movie is that from?

[22:18] Anyway, so his wife is singing and wearing lingerie because it's their anniversary, but he forgot.

[22:25] And she gets mad and slaps him.

[22:26] And he's like, don't make me mad.

[22:28] And she goes, if you're a real man, you'd hurt me.

[22:30] And then he's like – she's like, you don't have the balls.

[22:33] So it's one of those relationships where it's not healthy.

[22:35] It's not a healthy relationship.

[22:36] Oh, okay.

[22:37] I guess that's what I'm saying.

[22:38] I guess a healthy marriage is not built on threats and challenges.

[22:43] Like it is good for your spouse, your partner to challenge you, to make you think new ways,

[22:47] to get you out of your comfort zone sometimes, but not to challenge you to hit them or like show you a real man.

Stuart Wellington

[22:53] That's why I am still in love with my partner, the Dark Souls franchise.

Elliott Kalan

[22:59] You're saying it does challenge you in the right ways?

[23:02] Yeah.

[23:02] That was such a beautiful ceremony when you and Dark Souls got married.

[23:05] I know.

[23:07] And the dancing.

[23:09] It had to be in Croatia, the only country where a video game and a person can get married.

Stuart Wellington

[23:13] But that's going to change with meta and everything.

[23:16] And I don't need to tell you guys, but the wedding night was spectacular.

[23:21] Wait, why don't you need to tell us?

[23:24] Were we there?

[23:25] I don't need to tell you.

[23:27] Because he was Twitch streaming the whole thing.

[23:29] Twitch streaming it.

Elliott Kalan

[23:31] Speed running it.

[23:33] I don't have to tell you because you watched my YouTube cut down of the night.

[23:37] But it was spectacular.

[23:40] So Buddy is fixing the fence.

[23:42] The wife is drinking.

[23:43] The TV news talks about how there's a missing teen, which we know is that thief.

[23:47] There's a big storm coming.

[23:49] And you can tell that she's got her eye on Buddy.

[23:53] She's got her mindset on him.

[23:55] And they have kind of kindergarten level flirting and innuendo.

[23:59] It's like even a kid would be like, are you just talking about sex right now?

Stuart Wellington

[24:03] Well, I love how aggressive she is.

[24:07] He's not even really playing it dumb or anything.

[24:10] He's just like, what?

[24:12] Okay.

[24:13] Sure, yeah.

[24:14] I mean, it's like not too far from the reoccurring Pete Davidson sketch on Saturday Night Live where he's just like a dumb guy who keeps getting flirted with.

[24:22] Who just like agrees to everything.

[24:23] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[24:24] I mean, there's a real opening couple minutes to a porn video energy between the two of them.

[24:29] Yes.

[24:30] There's not – it's like not sexual tension so much as it is like making an appointment for sex at some point later in the movie.

[24:38] And Fancy even says at one point, I always loved the calm before the storm.

[24:42] And it's like, come on.

[24:43] Come on, movie.

[24:44] He hits his finger with a hammer because he's distracted watching because he hates to see your love leave but he loves to watch her go.

Dan McCoy

[24:50] He was watching her butt as she walks away and he decides to take that moment to nail in the hammer.

[24:57] Yeah.

[24:58] Hammer in the nail.

[24:59] Like, you know, these are two things that can be done sequentially.

[25:03] You don't have to –

Elliott Kalan

[25:03] Well, but he's got to get that fence done today if he's going to make that money.

[25:07] So he's got to multitask.

Dan McCoy

[25:09] I've got to save these two seconds and not look at my hand.

Elliott Kalan

[25:13] Yeah, rising grind, baby.

[25:15] Well, but it's also like he needs – like in the movies when they need to keep the caller on the line so they can trace where the call is coming from.

[25:22] He's like, still downloading this image into Spank Bank.

[25:25] Deposit not finished.

[25:26] Deposit not finished.

[25:27] Ow.

[25:28] Oh.

[25:28] Oh, I was so close.

[25:29] Ninety-nine percent.

[25:30] Anyway, she gives him a band-aid and she kisses his thumb.

[25:33] Nicolas Cage walks in and it's tense.

[25:35] And he and Fancy just keep trying to get a rise out of each other.

[25:38] This is going to happen the whole movie.

[25:40] Nicolas Cage, he's drinking.

[25:41] He starts shooting beer bottles off the fence with a sniper rifle right off the roof right next to where Buddy is.

[25:47] And Buddy, understandably, gets mad.

[25:50] He should report to OSHA this is not a safe workplace if your boss is shooting beer bottles next to your head.

[25:55] You know.

[25:55] It reminds me of – Dan, were you there – was this during your time at The Daily Show where there was a dartboard set up next to my head above my desk?

[26:03] Was this before you joined?

Dan McCoy

[26:05] I think by the time I got there, it was in that little alcove.

[26:09] It was by the emergency exit, which was still not great.

[26:11] It was by the emergency exit that was constantly filled with chairs.

[26:16] So such that the woman in charge of the space had to keep going back being like, you can't put these chairs here.

Elliott Kalan

[26:24] Yeah, this is a fire exit.

[26:25] Yeah, there's my then office partner, Sam Maines, who's a great television writer.

[26:32] He loves British pub culture.

[26:35] So he wanted to get a dartboard in our office.

[26:37] But I guess the only place to put it because his framed pictures were on the other wall was on the wall next to where my head is.

[26:42] And so I would have to work while the other writers would come in and throw darts at the board.

[26:46] And I'm being a nice guy, so I just gritted my teeth and white-knuckled it through my scripts while darts almost hit me in the head.

[26:53] And then when I moved to a different office and another writer took that room, she was like, this is not happening.

[26:57] And they moved the dartboard to the emergency exit area.

Dan McCoy

[27:00] But it's a little bit like that.

[27:01] It's not safe.

[27:01] Also, Sam is such a sweet, gentle man that it's always surprising to me to think about him not realizing the danger he's putting you in.

Elliott Kalan

[27:11] I think he just didn't think about it.

[27:13] He was just so excited about setting up that dartboard and making it like a real – like the writer's offices in the movies and the TV shows.

[27:19] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[27:19] Where there's games and stuff.

Dan McCoy

[27:20] Where people are throwing pencils at the ceiling.

Elliott Kalan

[27:23] Exactly, exactly.

[27:24] Oh, fun stuff like that.

[27:25] Yep.

[27:26] So the storm is arriving.

[27:27] Buddy's barely done any work fixing the fence, which is ridiculous.

[27:30] He's been working on it all day.

[27:32] And Nicolas Cage is like, I'm not going to pay you.

[27:34] I told you to finish it in one day.

[27:36] And Buddy wants to leave, but his truck won't start.

[27:38] Uh-oh.

[27:40] And we learned that – we briefly have him talk to Kelsey Grammer.

[27:43] We learned that he was a thief as a teen.

[27:46] He robbed a store.

[27:48] Kelsey Grammer was?

[27:49] No, no.

[27:50] Buddy was.

[27:51] Kelsey Grammer's like, you must have killed those people.

[27:53] You got arrested for robbing a store once when you were a kid.

[27:56] He's like – it's like that seems like a big ramping up.

[27:58] Yeah, yeah.

[27:59] Buddy goes back to the house.

[28:00] He says, Nicolas Cage, can I borrow your car?

[28:02] And Nicolas Cage goes, no.

[28:04] He says, so you leave your truck here and you get to take my Mustang?

[28:07] I don't think so.

[28:09] He says, get comfy.

[28:10] And Buddy calls his wife who is justifiably annoyed that she's going to have to ride out a hurricane with a crying baby.

[28:15] Or her husband is having a great time dealing with the violent sexual tension of this horrible couple.

[28:21] Guys, how would you apologize to your wife over the phone for the fact that you're not there with her during a hurricane because you're busy being in like a Z-grade erotic thriller?

Stuart Wellington

[28:31] I mean, I think at this point, you know, at this point, I don't think he's done anything wrong.

[28:36] You know, he's just flirted a bunch, nailed shit poorly.

[28:39] Oh, wow.

Elliott Kalan

[28:40] I would be like, honey, I'm sorry.

[28:42] I've been caught in a web of deceit and seduction.

[28:44] I don't know how to get out of it yet.

Stuart Wellington

[28:46] And, like, I mean, granted, he knew when he put on that sleeveless shirt that he was going to be attracting some undue attention from this couple.

Dan McCoy

[28:55] I mean, you know, it's a difficult thing because, obviously, I understand, you know, not wanting to be alone with a sick baby in a hurricane.

[29:04] But also, you know, like Nicolas Cage has set him up to trap him here for a hurricane.

[29:10] And there's not, like, you know, he can't get to her safely.

[29:14] It's, you know, it's one of those situations you enter into where, like, no one's totally right.

[29:19] You just got to say you're sorry.

Stuart Wellington

[29:21] So, yeah, Dan, you're like the buddy in this situation, right?

[29:24] I can see you as kind of that guy.

[29:25] You're like a guy who's good with his hands and you're just helping out.

[29:29] And then you get tricked or swindled into some kind of homoerotic.

[29:35] Well, maybe.

[29:36] I mean, there's some interesting.

[29:37] I mean, there's a little bit of that, I think.

[29:38] I see myself more as the sick baby.

Elliott Kalan

[29:46] Fair, fair.

[29:47] I think, yeah, Stuart's the buddy.

[29:49] I'm probably, what, Kelsey Grammer?

[29:52] And Dan's the sick baby.

[29:53] I got to tell you.

Stuart Wellington

[29:54] And if I was in Buddy's position, I would probably do the same dumb shit.

Elliott Kalan

[29:59] So, Buddy joins them for dinner of meatloaf and Fancy, not the singer, but eating the food.

[30:05] And it's not like Rocky Horror where they're...

[30:07] But, and Fancy, he tells the story, she tells the story about how she and Nicolas Cage met, she and Walter met.

[30:14] And she actually has the line, he was an alluring mix of strength, courage, and hope.

[30:18] Which is like, don't read the stage directions.

[30:20] Come on, what are you doing?

[30:22] And they keep hinting at like a secret backstory that the movie never really quite digs out.

[30:28] Yeah.

[30:28] There's lots of tension.

[30:30] And Nicolas Cage accuses...

[30:30] Save it for the sequel or the prequel.

[30:32] Yeah.

[30:33] The prequel.

[30:37] Walter accuses Buddy of wanting to have sex with his wife and she's being all sultry.

[30:41] And this, there's a moment here where Nicolas Cage gets up from his...

[30:43] That's where he makes that amazing line.

[30:45] That's where he says that amazing line where he, Nicolas Cage cannot even believe the words coming out of his mouth.

[30:50] Like, it's like, he's like, he like spits the words out as if he's like, I gotta get these out quick or my brain will stop me from saying them.

Stuart Wellington

[30:57] Or if he puts a big enough pause between cock and son to be like, there won't be a correlation.

[31:02] Like maybe it'll fly past the censors.

Elliott Kalan

[31:05] Maybe it'll sound like two different thoughts and the people at standards and practices won't stop me from saying it.

Dan McCoy

[31:12] You're allowed one non-sexual cock in your movie, so...

Elliott Kalan

[31:18] And that's how they got that G rating.

[31:20] That's why this is on Disney Plus.

[31:22] So, and then he gets up from his chair so amazingly loudly.

[31:26] And like, I don't know if you guys, if this struck you guys, but he gets up from his chair super fast.

[31:30] And the chair almost sounds like it's cracking to pieces under the force of him wanting to escape this scene so badly.

[31:37] Nicolas Cage passes out in front of the TV.

[31:39] Fancy briefly shows Buddy around the house.

[31:40] They see the basement door.

[31:42] Has multiple locks on it.

[31:43] And she teases him that there are very bad things down there.

[31:46] And then they go to her favorite room, which is full of weird little dolls.

Stuart Wellington

[31:49] And normally when I find a, in a creepy southern gothic house that has a door to the basement with a shitload of locks, I'm like, okay, I'm going to have to go through all these fucking puzzles to find all this shit so I can open it.

[32:02] Then I'll have a fucking boss fight or something.

Dan McCoy

[32:05] Guys, I just, look, I watched this movie, you know, you know, I think we all often for the flop house end up watching these movies in segments.

[32:14] Not like super frequently for me, but.

[32:17] Not always.

[32:18] I'm always for Elliot.

[32:19] Every single time for me.

[32:20] Yeah.

[32:20] If it's not a live show, I watched it in segments.

[32:22] This one, I watched the first half last night and the second half this morning.

[32:27] And I just now remember the scene we're about to get to and I'm so excited.

Elliott Kalan

[32:34] Maybe, well, I want you to talk about this.

[32:36] So in this one, she changes to a screen.

[32:38] She's talking about how hot it is because of course it's the South and she's becoming the old lady who likes Tintin.

[32:44] And she, so she says she's barren.

[32:47] She can't have children and starts telling him about her fantasy of having sex with a younger man.

[32:51] And she keeps, she's sitting next to him and she's like, anyway, then he would kiss my breasts.

[32:57] Should I keep going?

[32:58] And he's like, uh, yeah, okay.

[32:59] And she's like, then he'd kiss my stomach, then down my leg.

[33:04] Should I keep going?

[33:05] He's like, uh, okay.

[33:06] And she's like, and it's, and he, and what is she doing?

[33:11] She's like running at her hands on his leg or something like that.

[33:14] It all happens.

[33:14] It's happening at such a glacial pace.

[33:17] But I appreciate that she's acting, asking his consent every step of the way.

Dan McCoy

[33:20] So if I recall correctly, then what happens next is that like, you know, he gets spooked.

[33:28] He realizes maybe I shouldn't cheat on my wife.

[33:31] He like gets up.

[33:33] He trips onto the ground.

Stuart Wellington

[33:35] And he trips because he, all the blood that's normally in his head had rushed to his engorged boner.

[33:40] So he got lightheaded immediately.

[33:43] Yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[33:44] Yeah, yeah.

[33:44] His sense of balance was totally thrown off by how much, how much, how much, how much more his penis was than normal.

Dan McCoy

[33:49] So Nicolas Cage hears this, you know, this wakes him up downstairs.

[33:53] He very slowly walks upstairs.

[33:57] So slowly.

[33:58] Very slowly ends up like.

[34:00] It's the south, baby.

[34:01] Like being behind the door.

[34:02] Meanwhile, like our hero, I guess we can call him, is on the ground.

[34:08] And Fancy puts her stiletto.

[34:12] Gold stiletto heels.

[34:13] Her gold stiletto heel on his crotch.

[34:16] And at first I was like, is she going to do some like crushing action here?

[34:19] Is that his, is that her kink?

[34:21] Is she going to stop on those testes?

[34:24] But no.

[34:25] What happened?

[34:25] Dan, don't ever say that again.

[34:26] Making wine, yeah.

[34:27] What happens is the stiletto tip.

[34:32] Like she, she puts it underneath his, his button on his pants.

[34:38] Yeah.

[34:39] She flips her, her leg up with such force that the button flies off.

Elliott Kalan

[34:45] And now he's wearing denim jeans.

[34:47] She's able to pop the button off of denim jeans.

Dan McCoy

[34:50] Genuinely hot.

[34:51] That was amazing.

[34:52] And like the button like flies.

[34:54] So it's almost under the doorway.

[34:56] So Nicolas Cage could see it.

[34:58] Nicolas Cage was like lingering outside the door, but not opening the door ever.

[35:02] No, no.

[35:03] And she managed, she also, like she managed to open his fly with her stiletto heel.

[35:09] Amazing.

[35:10] It's a, it's a great scene.

[35:12] She won the Academy Award for scenes that year.

Elliott Kalan

[35:15] The Academy Award for most improbable sexiness.

[35:18] Where it's like, there's no, none of this makes any sense.

[35:21] Like how, just imagining the physics involved in the leverage she would need to tear the,

[35:26] to tear the button off of a pair of jeans with her, the heel.

[35:29] Yeah.

[35:29] I'm sure you guys are just like me.

[35:30] Using just her ankle, just, just her ankle strength.

Stuart Wellington

[35:33] I was watching this on the couch and I had to take one of those couch cushions and put

[35:36] it over my crotch.

[35:38] And I made a point not to stand up too quickly or else I would have fallen over.

[35:42] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[35:44] This was, this was a moment.

[35:45] Yeah.

[35:46] This moment it was like, it really felt, I mean, we've said this before for other movies

[35:49] where like an alien doesn't really know how humans do things and they're trying, they're

[35:53] like, what, an alien is like, what is sexy?

[35:57] Well, I think this would do it, right?

[35:59] This is like, like, eye heels are sexy.

[36:02] Crotches are sexy.

[36:03] And like buttons popping off of things, I guess.

[36:05] Crotches are sexy.

[36:06] And so what, just the idea that you would like unzip, unzip a pair of pants with the heel

[36:12] of a shoe is.

[36:13] Love it.

[36:14] Yeah.

[36:14] Anyway, they don't get caught.

[36:16] Nicolas Cage, like the mummy, just wanders through the hallways and lingers outside and

[36:20] then, and then walks away.

[36:22] Buddy's sleeping on the couch, all curled up like a little baby.

[36:25] The storm wakes him up.

[36:26] Uh-oh.

[36:26] Nicolas Cage is sitting there with a gun.

[36:29] He takes him to the attic.

[36:30] They talk about death and gratitude.

[36:32] Nicolas Cage talks about how when he was in Vietnam, he got injured in a friendly fire

[36:36] grenade accident, which meant he didn't get to go in country with his squad and they were

[36:41] all wiped out.

[36:42] And ever since then, he's always regretted either not saving them or not dying with them.

[36:45] And Buddy talks about his experience as a sailor on the real ship, the USS Stark, which was

[36:50] attacked by an Iraqi fighter jet in 1987 and how his best friend was on the ship with him

[36:57] and he tried to save him and he couldn't and he died.

[37:00] And Nicolas Cage throws a bag with $20,000 and cash in on the floor and says, hey, Fancy

[37:05] has cancer.

[37:05] Can you kill her so she doesn't die slowly of cancer?

[37:08] Here's some cyanide.

[37:09] Just get her to drink it, I guess.

[37:11] And you can do it.

Dan McCoy

[37:13] He said, pour it on her rag and stuff it in her face.

[37:14] Yeah.

[37:15] He does a great move that I actually missed and Audrey like made me rewind to see and I

[37:19] don't regret spending an extra minute in Grand Isle to see this where she's like, put it

[37:24] on.

[37:25] Huh?

[37:26] Huh?

[37:26] And he like does a little like.

[37:28] Yeah, he little mimes the.

[37:29] A little mime of all three steps.

[37:31] But, um.

Elliott Kalan

[37:32] And Buddy takes almost no time in being like, okay.

Dan McCoy

[37:36] Yeah, this is a part of the movie where I'm like, all right, hold on, movie.

[37:41] I'll buy this popping off of the button with the high heels.

[37:45] But so this guy, Nicolas Cage.

Elliott Kalan

[37:49] I'll buy that Buddy's jeans are so worn in that that button is barely attached.

[37:53] The thread is worn through.

[37:55] You can just pop that thing off with it anyway.

Stuart Wellington

[37:57] Or that denim is stretched so tightly that just the slightest shift will cause it to

[38:01] pop.

[38:02] Come on.

[38:02] Yeah, because he's so aroused.

[38:04] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[38:04] No, but like.

[38:05] But the idea that Nick Cage, who has been nothing but like.

[38:10] Nothing but trouble.

[38:10] Belligerent to this man, like just like awful to him the whole time, is going to try and

[38:17] convince him to kill his wife, like claiming that she's sick.

[38:22] And the guy is going to immediately be like, uh, yeah, sure.

[38:27] Rather than being like, uh, can I talk to her about whether she's sick?

[38:31] Or like, you also seem like an asshole.

[38:34] Like what, what's going on here?

Stuart Wellington

[38:35] I mean, he saw, he saw those stacks, dude.

[38:37] He saw the 20, 20 grand in the bag.

Elliott Kalan

[38:39] I mean, he needs that money.

[38:41] And also at this point, he's probably just wants to get out of that house.

[38:44] Yeah.

[38:44] So it's like, what do I need to say to get out of this house?

Dan McCoy

[38:47] It is implied that he's mostly just like trying to play along with whatever happens because

[38:51] he's freaked out.

[38:53] But it is not particularly, I don't know.

[38:55] It just seems like this guy drifts from whatever.

Stuart Wellington

[38:58] Think of the pants button he can buy with that 20 grand.

Elliott Kalan

[39:01] He's like, well, I do need some money to repair my pants.

[39:04] So thank you.

[39:05] Yeah.

[39:05] Denim tailoring is harder to get around here.

[39:08] This is when, so this is when I think the movie officially shifts into what I would call lugubrious

[39:13] territory where fancy is just hanging out in a bath, drinking and listening to strange fruit,

[39:17] which is an interesting choice because it is, it's a, because it's a protest song about

[39:21] lynching.

[39:21] Like it's not a sexy song.

Dan McCoy

[39:23] It was a very upsetting choice.

[39:25] And also like she explains the history of it briefly.

[39:29] And then the movie continues and it's like, what, why do you, why did you think this was

[39:34] a point you needed to make movie, a movie not about race relations in any way?

Elliott Kalan

[39:38] No, it definitely de-sexifies the moment quite a bit, which is maybe what they wanted.

[39:42] Maybe the movie was in danger of getting too sexy.

[39:45] They're like, we're in the red zone.

[39:46] We're in the red zone.

[39:47] Let's remind everybody about America's violent history of racial injustice.

[39:50] Okay, good.

[39:51] We did.

Stuart Wellington

[39:51] We might have a blowout if you stay in the red zone too long.

Elliott Kalan

[39:53] We don't, we don't want the audience members' genitalia to just explode from, from the,

[39:58] from the pent up passion that they're, that they're viewing.

[40:00] All those buttons popping off.

[40:02] Anyway, they talk about their childhoods and she talks about how sad she is.

[40:05] And then they start kissing.

[40:07] Back to the interrogation room.

[40:11] Kelsey Grammer's like, you started doing, what, what were you thinking?

[40:15] Making love to this woman's wife and he's right there.

[40:19] And he was like, look, I felt like I had to hit them against each other to survive.

[40:22] And I was like, that's not, you would say pit them against each other, right?

[40:25] Like not, where he says hitting them against each other.

[40:27] Anyway, he says it.

[40:28] He, he means to say pitting, but he says it in a weird way.

Dan McCoy

[40:30] But also I like listening to that.

[40:32] I'm like, okay, Kelsey Grammer, what, what is making you mad in this scenario?

[40:37] Is it the murder?

[40:39] Is it the fact that you committed adultery?

[40:41] Or is it the fact that you, this guy committed adultery while Nicolas Cage was around?

[40:45] Because it seems like that's the part that like bothered him.

Elliott Kalan

[40:48] Why does it have to be one or the other?

[40:50] I think it's, Kelsey Grammer's a church going man, as he says.

[40:52] It could be any of those things.

[40:54] Yeah.

[40:54] So you're doing adultery wrong.

[40:57] You're stacking up them sins.

[41:00] We trying to shoot the moon with commandments.

[41:03] Now, so the, back to the, so back to, we realized that interrogation scene is just there so that they don't have to show the sex scene.

[41:09] Can we come, we come back and they are lying on the ground in a post-coital embrace, buddy and fancy.

Stuart Wellington

[41:13] It's kind of weird because like, I didn't get the vibe that this was a, the kind of situation that would necessitate a cuddle afterwards.

Elliott Kalan

[41:21] I mean, the fact is.

Stuart Wellington

[41:22] Buddy wasn't giving me a big cuddler energy afterwards, you know?

Elliott Kalan

[41:25] And there's so little, there's so little, there's so little sexual chemistry between them that the fact that they're having sex at all feels so like pro forma for both of them.

[41:32] Yes.

[41:33] Just feels like this is what we're supposed to do with this part of the movie, I guess.

[41:36] So yeah, the fact that they're like hugging when it gets back is surprising.

Stuart Wellington

[41:39] And Fancy's giving a lot and he's not giving much.

Elliott Kalan

[41:42] Yeah.

[41:42] Yeah, that's true.

[41:43] Maybe he's just not that into her, you know?

[41:45] Yeah, yeah.

[41:45] Well, I mean.

[41:46] Fancy, we know, well, we can tell that Fancy's not great at picking guys because look at who she ended up with, Walter.

[41:52] So maybe Fancy, although we'll later find out that Fancy is a monster.

[41:56] So I guess, so maybe I shouldn't sympathize with her at this point.

[41:59] But, you know, maybe she just needs the, she needs the right partner or perhaps she just needs some time by herself to find out who she is.

[42:06] Because if you don't love yourself, no one's going to love you for any reasons either.

Stuart Wellington

[42:09] Yeah, if only she'd heard that before she started walking down this terrifying path.

Elliott Kalan

[42:14] Yeah, this lonely road.

[42:16] The only road that she's ever known.

[42:17] Yeah, she goes.

[42:18] Yeah, I don't know.

[42:19] Yeah, so she finds the poison, the cyanide that Walter gave him, I guess just kind of rolled out while they were having sex.

[42:26] He wasn't very terrible with that cyanide, yeah.

[42:28] And she's like, I don't have cancer.

[42:30] And he's like, oh, your husband said I should kill you.

Dan McCoy

[42:33] And she seems kind of unfazed.

Elliott Kalan

[42:34] She's just like, yeah, okay, I'll handle that.

[42:37] And Nicolas Cage is, he's got full-on crazy face at this point.

[42:42] But he's also, he's hammering wood onto the windows on the inside for the storm.

[42:47] But he's like, maybe this is how you do it.

[42:50] Instead of hammering the boards on individually, he has big pre-made wooden board screens that he is holding up to the window and then hitting and then nailing in that way.

[42:59] Is that how you do it when there's a hurricane coming?

[43:01] I mean, I think in like places that deal with regular hurricanes.

[43:04] Yeah.

[43:05] Okay.

[43:06] Because I wasn't, not knowing it, I wasn't sure if it was just a prop thing that we weren't supposed to see was one big piece or if that's actually how you do it.

[43:13] If that's how you do it, then Walter, I apologize for doubting you.

[43:16] Anyway, she comes over and sweet socks him, which is just a preamble to stabbing him in the hand.

[43:21] And it's great.

[43:22] They get into a fight.

[43:25] He tries to force Buddy to poison her at gunpoint.

[43:27] Then he ends up fighting with Buddy.

[43:29] Buddy punches him a lot, really hard in the face.

[43:32] These are big wet punches.

[43:33] And the storm has gotten so bad now.

[43:35] Buddy ties up Nicolas Cage and he's like, I want to leave.

[43:38] And Fancy's like, take me with you.

[43:39] I want to get out of here.

[43:41] And Nicolas Cage is like, she's got a secret.

[43:43] Why don't you tell him your secret, Fancy?

Stuart Wellington

[43:46] So Nicolas Cage has been stabbed, beat up, and tied to a banister.

[43:50] And then Fancy's all up on Buddy and she's like, fuck me again.

[43:55] Make me come in front of him.

[43:56] And I'm like, lady, read the fucking room here.

Elliott Kalan

[44:00] I feel like at this point, this is the point in an improv scene where the game has been lost

[44:06] and no one's run across the stage to end the scene yet.

[44:10] So they're just kind of trying to figure out where to go with it next.

[44:12] So Nicolas Cage is like, she's got a dark secret.

[44:15] And Fancy's like, oh.

[44:16] Let's do it right here.

[44:17] And Buddy's like, I just want to get paid for this fence.

[44:20] Like, none of them can agree on what the premise is.

Stuart Wellington

[44:22] I don't care about the secret.

[44:23] I just want to leave.

Elliott Kalan

[44:25] Which, to be fair, if I was him, there's no reason why he should care about that secret.

[44:29] Just get out of there.

Stuart Wellington

[44:30] We all know Dan being naturally curious by nature would be very interesting.

Dan McCoy

[44:34] I mean, I'm curious about the secret, but that's because I'm watching a movie where it's so clear

[44:38] that there's going to be a secret that's revealed at some point.

[44:40] Yes.

[44:41] So I want him to stay.

[44:42] But if Nicolas Cage wanted to, like, you know, yeah, trap him with the secret,

[44:47] he could have brought the secret up a little earlier.

Stuart Wellington

[44:49] Like, no life I ever need to trap Dan.

[44:51] I just put on a VHS copy of Secrets of the Mass Magician, and Dan can't stop watching.

[44:58] I'm so drawn to secrets.

Dan McCoy

[45:02] Oh, Director Skinner, stop.

[45:05] The Magician's Guild is going to take you out.

Elliott Kalan

[45:09] So the – but now they're just trying things to keep him there for some reason

[45:13] because then Nicolas Cage is like, hey, if you – you should kill me now

[45:17] or else I'll kill your whole family.

[45:19] I'll come for you.

[45:20] But you should first see what's in that basement.

[45:21] And Fancy's like, don't go into the basement.

[45:23] And it's – I was buddy.

[45:26] Yeah, she's like, children shouldn't play with dead things.

[45:29] Like, buddy, just leave.

[45:33] But instead, buddy goes down the basement.

[45:35] And let me just tell you real quick that Fancy shoots at him.

[45:38] The power goes out because of the storm.

[45:40] And he runs, and she unties Nicolas Cage.

[45:42] And she's like laying it on a little thick with the secrets.

[45:44] And he's like, did you have to stab me so much?

[45:46] And it's like they – at that point, the movie is not even pretending

[45:50] that this is not like some game they've set up.

Dan McCoy

[45:53] Yes, except for none of that makes sense once everything's revealed.

[45:58] There's no like metagame that appears to have been playing in that way.

[46:04] Like the only thing I can think of is at that point, they have to work together because they'll

[46:10] be implicated together in what is eventually revealed.

Elliott Kalan

[46:14] I mean, it's really on Walter for giving Buddy the idea of going into the basement.

[46:19] Exactly.

Dan McCoy

[46:19] Like none of this part makes any sense.

Elliott Kalan

[46:22] Although I guess he's hoping we'll get him into the basement.

[46:25] We'll trap him in there just like we've trapped other people.

[46:28] Spoiler alert because Buddy finds the thief from the beginning of the movie.

[46:31] He's like got an IV in him that's I guess keeping him sedated.

[46:34] He's all weak.

[46:35] And the thief is like, there's more like me in here.

[46:37] There's some kind of kidnapping dungeon in the basement of the house.

[46:41] There's a lot of fighting and running around the house.

[46:44] Buddy goes up to the attic for some reason and fights Nicolas Cage there.

[46:49] Fancy knocks out Buddy.

[46:50] Buddy wakes up in his truck covered in blood.

[46:53] And the thief's body is there and the police show up.

[46:56] They arrest him.

[46:57] He's being interrogated for the murder of the thief.

[47:00] We saw the beginning.

[47:01] Not James Caan.

[47:02] Yeah, we saw the beginning.

[47:03] Not James Caan.

[47:04] Not any other thieves from the many great thieves of movie making.

[47:09] It's not Bob LaFlembour.

[47:11] It's not Rafifi.

[47:13] Not Robin Hood.

[47:14] It's not Arsene Lupin or even Lupin III.

[47:16] None of these characters.

[47:19] None of these famous thieves.

[47:20] It's not Raffles, the gentleman thief.

[47:23] It's not Catwoman or any of the other great supervillain thieves.

[47:28] Danny Ocean.

[47:30] None of these great thieves.

[47:32] None of them.

[47:32] Yeah.

[47:33] It's not the guys from Going Out in Style.

[47:36] It's not the silent partner dressed as Santa Claus.

[47:38] It's not thieves like us.

[47:40] It's not they live by night.

[47:42] It's not any of those.

[47:43] Yeah.

[47:43] Or they drive by night.

[47:45] I can't.

[47:45] No, they drive by night is about truckers.

[47:46] So it's not any of these thieves.

[47:48] Drive by truckers?

[47:49] And it's not someone from Thebes.

[47:51] It's not Oedipus.

[47:52] It's not, you know, none of that stuff.

[47:54] So.

[47:55] So.

[47:55] Yeah.

[47:55] So the police.

[47:57] Oh, and this.

[47:57] And this is when.

[47:58] And this is when.

[47:59] When Buddy is like, I want my phone call to my lawyer.

[48:02] And Kelsey Grammer is like, where do you think you are?

Dan McCoy

[48:04] You're on Grand House.

[48:06] Well, and I want to object to this scene here too.

[48:11] Because this is where Kelsey Grammer.

[48:13] Look.

[48:13] We all know that like there are like shitty cops everywhere.

[48:22] And particularly like one is happy to believe or not happy to believe, but will believe in some small backwater place.

[48:33] Like there's a guy who's going to railroad you for a crime that you didn't commit.

[48:37] Like I'm not saying that that is that is in any way unbelievable.

[48:41] But the way that Kelsey Grammer.

Stuart Wellington

[48:42] Dan, are you alienating our small but loyal fan base of small town corrupt detectives?

[48:49] Yeah.

[48:50] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[48:50] I think.

[48:51] I'm just saying that like the way that.

Elliott Kalan

[48:53] They're a minority of listeners, but they're very vocal minority.

[48:56] Those corrupt small town detectives.

[48:57] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[48:58] Yeah.

[48:58] I'm just.

[48:58] I'm saying that.

[48:59] Sure.

[49:00] It's believable that someone might get railroaded for a crime they didn't commit.

[49:03] The way that Kelsey Grammer is doing it like seems so half-assed for the amount that he seems to actually believe it himself.

[49:12] Because he's like, I believe that what happened is you went out and you had sex with this man's wife.

[49:20] And then you, because you're a violent veteran, you found this unrelated man and you killed him.

[49:29] And I have no motive for this.

[49:31] And there's nothing linking you to the crime other than you woke up beaten next to the body.

[49:37] But there's no other physical evidence or a murder weapon or anything.

Elliott Kalan

[49:41] What gets me, Dan, is that he seems to believe the whole story.

[49:46] That's the thing.

[49:46] Yeah.

[49:46] But he's telling.

[49:47] Yeah.

[49:47] That's like.

[49:47] Yeah.

[49:48] When there's no evidence of that.

[49:50] There's only evidence of dead body and truck.

[49:52] If Kelsey Grammer could say, this is all bullshit.

[49:55] There's no fancy.

[49:56] I mean, he wouldn't say.

[49:57] There's no fancy.

[49:57] He wouldn't say bullshit.

Stuart Wellington

[49:58] He'd say like hog swallow or something.

Elliott Kalan

[50:00] Yeah.

[50:01] Like this is.

[50:02] This is.

[50:03] There's a lot of honey butter going on this turn house.

[50:06] Like that's what he'd say or something like that.

[50:08] But and then.

[50:08] But like he's like, okay.

[50:10] I buy your story until the part where you say you didn't kill this guy.

[50:13] But everything up till then.

[50:15] Yes.

[50:15] That's God's honest truth.

[50:17] I understand it.

Stuart Wellington

[50:18] When do you get to the part where you would look at yourself in a murder?

Dan McCoy

[50:22] Mr. Kaza Soze, I believe everything you said except for at the end, you are the killer.

Elliott Kalan

[50:28] Oh, man.

[50:29] You got it.

Dan McCoy

[50:29] Well, you got me, but you got there wrong.

Elliott Kalan

[50:31] You did get me, but the wrong way.

[50:32] I mean, I see your math, but it's the wrong math.

[50:35] But it brought you to the right answer somehow.

[50:37] Anyway, arrest him.

[50:39] Oh, man.

[50:39] On what charges?

[50:40] I'll tell you the story.

Stuart Wellington

[50:41] Oh, man.

[50:42] If only the fucking test audiences had felt that way by usual suspects that they had to just arrest him at the end.

[50:50] Like he gets into a car and there's somebody there slapping handcuffs on.

[50:56] Oh, man.

Elliott Kalan

[50:57] The driver, Pete Postlewaite, turns around and puts a gun in his face and goes, you're under arrest.

[51:01] I was undercover all this time.

[51:03] Yeah, it's – there must be – I guarantee a studio executive at one point was like, why doesn't it end with you?

[51:08] Why don't you then show a scene of him getting stopped getting on a plane or something?

[51:11] And they throw him in jail.

[51:13] You know, happy endings.

Dan McCoy

[51:14] Grand Isle, though, to return to the movie that we're talking about, this –

[51:17] You mean Grand Isle?

[51:19] This – as soon as they leave –

Elliott Kalan

[51:21] You know, I was just an isle and then my kids have kids.

[51:24] Now my Grand Isle.

Dan McCoy

[51:25] As soon as they leave the flashback portion of the movie, which, by the way, Audrey pointed out that everything that we're seeing earlier in the movie is ostensibly this flashback,

[51:36] although there are plenty of scenes where Buddy was not in the room.

[51:41] So I don't know what he's telling Kelsey Grammer at those times.

[51:44] It is the same in private Ryan issue.

Elliott Kalan

[51:47] Yeah, then Buddy was – maybe Buddy's like, oh, in this part I was hiding in a closet.

[51:52] So I heard this part.

[51:53] Or there was a vent.

[51:55] I was in the bathroom, but I could hear through a vent when they were plotting against me.

Dan McCoy

[51:58] As soon as the flashback ends and we enter present day, the movie –

[52:05] Act three, let's call it.

[52:05] The movie, which, you know, has been shaky but enjoyable up until this point, really flies off the rails.

[52:13] So this is the part where –

Elliott Kalan

[52:14] Now this is – the movie has been – I'll give it this.

[52:16] I did not like this movie.

[52:18] I think it was the ever-greater sense of grime and moral corruption of the universe that it was pouring onto me.

[52:26] Yeah, that's the guy that.

Stuart Wellington

[52:27] It's a heavy weight for you to carry, Elliot, but I'm glad you did it.

Elliott Kalan

[52:30] It is.

[52:31] But boy, I'm going to carry that weight a long time.

[52:33] And so the – at this point, it's been a pretty tight movie up until now.

[52:38] Minimal locations, minimal characters.

[52:40] Yeah, this is when the movie is like, oh, we kind of don't know what happens next in this movie.

[52:45] Yeah.

[52:46] And it reminds me – there's the story that Matt Damon and Ben Affleck have told about how they wrote like 40 different endings for Good Will Hunting because they weren't quite sure what to do with it.

[52:55] And so they had an ending where Ben Affleck's character gets killed in a work accident.

[52:58] They had an ending where Robin Williams' character somehow becomes a construction foreman and becomes their boss.

[53:03] Like they really didn't know, according to them, what they were doing.

[53:06] And it feels like that's what happened with this movie where they were like, uh, we have 10 different endings.

[53:09] Let's just pick one.

[53:10] Yeah.

[53:10] Because the movie, it kind of runs – it goes through the – it runs in place for a while.

[53:15] They send Buddy's wife in for a scene that doesn't really mean anything other than she's mad at him.

[53:20] And Kelsey Grammer's partner sees something in an old missing persons case file that reminds her of something Buddy said.

[53:26] They go to Nicolas Cage's house and Nicolas – Walter and Fancy just kind of stand around while the cops one by one go into the basement.

[53:33] I guess disappear for a moment.

[53:35] Yeah.

[53:35] And then –

Dan McCoy

[53:35] I got so mad too because like the woman who makes the connection like leaves one cop behind to watch them.

[53:42] And he's like – and she says like, you know, stay on them.

[53:45] And he just like keeps like ducking his head to like look at something in the hall, which like it's not even clear what it is.

[53:52] He has literally one job, which is to keep his eye on these people.

Elliott Kalan

[53:55] He's an easily distracted cop.

[53:57] They find a kidnapped woman in the basement and there's something about – they say something about how they wanted to expand their family.

[54:03] And Walter has an amazing getting away from a cop line.

[54:07] He goes, my cat's up a tree.

[54:08] Can you shoot him down?

[54:09] And he goes, what?

[54:11] He said, my cat's up a tree.

[54:12] Shoot him down.

[54:12] And he punches him in the way.

Stuart Wellington

[54:14] Quite reasonably, the police officer says, what?

Elliott Kalan

[54:19] But it's such a funny – and that I believe is – I mean I would believe that as an ad-libbed Nicolas Cage line that they were like, just say something to distract the cop.

[54:27] Okay, my cat's up a tree.

[54:28] Can you shoot him down?

[54:29] And so Nicolas Cage escapes.

[54:31] Fancy is caught.

[54:32] Buddy is released.

[54:33] But his wife leaves him.

[54:34] Time passes as represented by a radio news story.

[54:37] We have a scene where Buddy wakes up in the middle of the night because he thought he heard something.

[54:41] He walks around and then he goes back to bed.

[54:43] The movie is like if we keep making scenes, something will happen.

[54:47] Like eventually something will happen.

[54:48] And it does because Buddy is – he's at the diner and we hear on the radio that Walter is on the loose.

[54:58] Buddy – they found all these – all these missing teens were found in the basement of this house.

[55:02] Yeah.

[55:03] Buddy's at the diner and Walter shows up shaved.

[55:06] Up to this point, he's had long hair and a long beard, shaved and in his Marines uniform.

Stuart Wellington

[55:11] Which I know from seeing Con Air that as soon as he sees Nicolas Cage in a fucking uniform, shit's about to go down.

[55:18] You're like, Captain Corelli, watch out.

[55:20] That mandolin is sharp.

[55:21] It will cut you, sir.

Elliott Kalan

[55:23] Is that what happens?

[55:24] Does he get cut by a mandolin?

[55:25] By his mandolin, yeah.

[55:26] I'm assuming – I haven't seen it, but I'm assuming it's a –

[55:28] No, no.

[55:29] Yeah.

[55:30] You got to be fucking careful.

[55:31] Those things are so sharp.

[55:32] I'm pretty sure it's a guitar mandolin.

[55:34] It's not the – it's not the cooking implement mandolin that you use for – yeah, for making really thin things.

[55:40] That doesn't make sense.

Stuart Wellington

[55:41] I mean like – I mean it's a mandolin super useful to have in the kitchen.

[55:46] You just have to wear like a chainmail gauntlet to fucking use it, right?

[55:49] No, no.

[55:49] But a mandolin is also like a little – it's like a little guitar.

Elliott Kalan

[55:52] I think that's what he has.

[55:53] But I've never seen the movie.

[55:54] You put potatoes on a little guitar?

[55:56] I mean if you like shove them through the –

[55:57] You do.

Elliott Kalan

[55:57] You smush them through the strings.

[55:58] Yeah.

[55:59] Yeah.

[55:59] Okay.

[56:00] It's like something that – like I think in one of the Marx Brothers movies they cut something by putting it through the strings of Harpo's harp.

[56:06] Like they can – it's like that, you know.

[56:08] That's how they invented the mandolin.

[56:10] So anyway, he has Buddy's wife at gunpoint and he's like playing mind games with Buddy and he's – the whole part doesn't really make it.

[56:18] He's like, I thought I found a brother in arms but you're really a coward and Buddy admits that when his ship got attacked, he left his friend to die.

[56:25] He didn't really try to save him.

[56:26] He gets Buddy at gunpoint and the cops show up and Walter is like, release fancy.

[56:31] And they're like – and Kelsey Grammer shows up and I was like, oh, Kelsey Grammer went to a second location for this movie.

[56:35] Like that's – maybe they put him up for a night in a hotel.

[56:39] And he goes, she's in a lockdown mental institution.

[56:41] I can't release her.

[56:43] And Walter is like, the system was unfair to me and my Marines.

[56:46] We came back and we got called names and spat on and I'm like, movie.

[56:49] What movie did you turn into?

Dan McCoy

[56:51] This is not the movie you started as.

[56:52] And Kelsey Grammer is like, hell, we could settle this over a beer.

[56:58] We could just talk over a beer.

[57:00] And I'm like, Kelsey Grammer, you have not met this character until this point in the movie.

[57:05] Don't act like –

Stuart Wellington

[57:07] I think he's low-key trying to sell that fucking Yankee beer that Kelsey Grammer has been hawking in upstate New York lately.

[57:14] I think he is trying to deescalate the situation.

Elliott Kalan

[57:18] He's trying to deescalate the situation.

[57:19] But also, it's never clear to me how well-known Walter and Fancy are in this town.

[57:23] I'm not sure how big a town it is, whether everyone knows everybody or whether they are weirdos.

[57:28] Because the way he talks to them, it's as if he knows who he is already.

[57:30] And they have a huge house.

[57:32] And Fancy came from money, I think.

[57:34] So – but anyway, Walter, he draws his guns on the cops so that they'll kill him.

[57:38] Although he seems very surprised when he's dying.

[57:41] He thought it would go a different way.

[57:42] I guess he thought he'd just keep killing until there was no one left on earth and the dead – the hell would be too full of the dead and they'd have to come back.

[57:49] Kelsey Grammer's beer is called Faith American, by the way.

Stuart Wellington

[57:53] Faith American.

Elliott Kalan

[57:54] And what is it?

[57:55] Is there a description of the flavor?

[57:56] What is it?

[57:56] Is it an IPA?

[57:57] Is it a lager?

[57:57] Is it a stout?

Stuart Wellington

[57:59] That's the brewing company.

[58:00] I think they do the Faith American Ale.

[58:02] I'm guessing it tastes probably super boring and not very interesting.

Elliott Kalan

[58:07] Yeah.

[58:07] There was that commercial that was going around online recently where it's like two minutes long and it's scenes of Reagan and Bush and stuff and like the American military and we're under attack.

[58:18] And that just ends and it's an ad for a wine that just has a Republican elephant on the label of the bottle.

[58:23] And it was like, wow, this is a lot of buildup for just this wine that was called like Freedom Wine or something.

[58:28] But anyway.

Dan McCoy

[58:29] Is that Freedom Wine?

[58:30] Then turn it up, man.

Elliott Kalan

[58:34] Oh, what a lovable commercial.

[58:36] It was back when you could slap freedom in front of things and it wasn't in any way political or polarization because they're clearly hippies.

[58:42] Clearly hippies, yeah.

[58:44] Well, I guess there was a time when freedom was about being like a – when you'd say, hey, freedom, man.

Dan McCoy

[58:48] Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

Elliott Kalan

[58:50] Yeah, you were a hippie rather than a fascist.

[58:52] But anyway, so – and so the scourge of Walter has ended.

[58:59] Buddy reunites with his family and they say, well, I'll take it one day at a time.

[59:02] And then there's this final coda which is baffling where the news is announcing over – and it leaves such a bad taste in anyone's mouth.

Dan McCoy

[59:12] The news is clarifying the twist of the movie that the movie was like ineptly deployed earlier.

Elliott Kalan

[59:18] It's all – the movie is like, oh, wait, we forgot to explain what was going on in the movie.

[59:22] So the news – so intercut with shots of Fancy like locking doors and yelling or whatever, it says how Walter and Fancy were kidnapping teen girls, which we got, to expand their family and forcing them to have babies for years, which is horrifying.

[59:38] Like this is such a horrifying thing for them to suddenly throw into the last 30 seconds of the movie.

[59:44] Like it's – and it's where the movie – I'm like this is what it's – and this is when I was like this is what it's like to see a Grindhouse movie because a Grindhouse movie would be like, hey, you know what?

[59:52] We don't care.

[59:53] We're just going to throw in the worst thing.

[59:55] Like we're totally tasteless.

[59:56] And the news –

[59:57] Totally tasteless scenes.

Dan McCoy

[59:58] The news anchor – like not – it's just like something you don't usually see in one of these things in a movie where like the news anchor clarifies.

[1:00:08] The news anchor is also like editorializing too.

[1:00:10] Like I guess it goes to show you never know who your neighbors are.

[1:00:13] And I'm like movie – like you're trying to add these couple of morals at the end about like not knowing your neighbors and also the way America treats its veterans and neither of them seems to be of a piece with the rest of the film.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:28] It's so – like the ending of it feels like a contractual obligation for either Nicolas Cage or Kelsey Grammer that they had to have some point that they were making that's like their personal bugaboo, you know?

[1:00:41] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:43] Can you – I just want to make sure everyone knows that kidnapping and forced pregnancy is super yucky.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:49] And also we should take care of our veterans.

[1:00:51] Anyway, Grand Isle, everyone.

[1:00:52] Good night, folks.

[1:00:53] And it's like – it's such – it's one of the few times I've seen a movie where at the end I'm like, wait, did they forget what movie they were making?

[1:01:01] And they started making another movie.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:02] Is this like a very special episode of Grand Isle?

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:05] They picked up the last 20 pages of a different script and they were like, just use that.

[1:01:09] Shove it in.

[1:01:10] Change the names of the characters.

[1:01:12] Because it's – anyway, we'll go to final judgments.

[1:01:15] But this movie – suffice it to say I did not walk out a fan.

Dan McCoy

[1:01:19] Yeah.

[1:01:21] So what do we do now on the podcast, Dan?

[1:01:22] What we do now is we do final judgments.

[1:01:26] Whether this was a good, bad movie, a bad, bad movie, or a movie kind of like – I'm going to say that this is like an interesting split where I would say the first two-thirds of this movie is a movie I kind of like where maybe it's not the most skillful example of this type of movie.

[1:01:47] But I have a real soft spot for like web of sexual intrigue, sweaty southern gothic thriller film noir.

[1:01:58] Like that gumbo as you put it earlier.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:01] I mean it is very serenity in a lot of ways.

[1:02:04] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:02:04] I find that stuff very enjoyable even if it's not done at its highest level.

[1:02:09] And Nicolas Cage is having a lot of fun.

[1:02:10] And Katie Strickland is having a lot of fun too.

[1:02:13] Yeah, they're both like swinging for the fences.

[1:02:15] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:16] And then I would say –

[1:02:17] Oh, for sure.

[1:02:17] And they are just hurling beignets and lobster and crocodile meat all over – or alligator meat all over the screen.

[1:02:25] Yeah, constantly.

Dan McCoy

[1:02:25] And then the last third of the movie I would say for me was a good, bad movie.

[1:02:30] There's a lot of distasteful stuff as Elliot says.

[1:02:32] But if you're able to approach it as just some dumb movie, like it becomes so silly at that point that like I still enjoyed it.

[1:02:42] But what do you guys have to say?

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:44] No, I mean I think you're right on the money there, Dan.

[1:02:46] Like it's that sort of thing where it's like so over the top – the ending reveal twist is so over the top gross that it becomes funny because it's so like – it's so ridiculous and horrible and like why did they do this?

[1:03:00] No thank you.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:02] Yeah, I wish I could – I wish I could like lose myself in it the way you guys have.

[1:03:08] It was a bad, bad movie for me because it was like – it was one of those things where like – and I'll watch lots of unpleasant movies.

[1:03:16] I'm happy with a movie that delves into the horrible aspects of humanity as long as it's not just kind of like drizzling it on like with one of those sauce squirt things that they use in fancy restaurants.

[1:03:27] You know, where they're like, oh, we'll put like a swirl of this –

Stuart Wellington

[1:03:33] Raspberry reduction.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:35] Yeah, exactly.

[1:03:36] Thank you.

[1:03:36] Oh, yeah.

[1:03:37] You can't add forced impregnation as a raspberry reduction at the end.

[1:03:41] So it's – I felt like the whole movie I was like, ugh, this movie.

[1:03:46] And then at the end it was like the movie was poking me in the eye.

[1:03:50] Like the movie was like, look at all this bad stuff and then I'll poke you in the eye first.

[1:03:53] So I'm going to say bad, bad.

Stuart Wellington

[1:03:54] Hey, Dan, what was that movie that came out that had the blind guy home aloning those kids who broke into his house?

[1:03:59] Don't Breathe.

[1:04:00] Yeah, don't watch that one either, Elliot.

[1:04:02] That's also got some forced pregnancy gross in it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:04] Well, I mean if it's a good movie and the movie is going towards a – like that kind of horror, then I could probably accept it.

[1:04:13] It's just like the fact that they just kind of throwed it in.

[1:04:16] It's like there's a scene in the book of Blood Meridian where they go to this horrible place and it says like, oh, yeah, and there's a 12-year-old girl chained to a fence post, chained to a stake like an animal.

[1:04:26] And I was like, I don't like that as just a detail you're going to throw in like just to show me how super cool, extreme, badass this place is.

[1:04:34] I mean he's not trying to show it as badass.

[1:04:37] He's trying to show it as a horrible place.

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:38] Yeah, Cormac McCarthy is sitting there with his sunglasses staring at his fist in the ring wearing a leather double.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:44] Cormac McCarthy and Garth Ennis are just hanging around talking about how they can make things real fucked up in their stories.

[1:04:51] Yeah, we got a couple of Chris Gaines on our hands.

[1:04:54] But just as the cut to – I feel like when something is – when you're going to put that – when you're going to put something that distasteful and real-world horrifying in, it's just hard for me to accept it as like the sprinkling at the end.

[1:05:06] Like did I forget to put some paprika on this?

[1:05:09] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1:05:09] And I'll put some forced impregnation also.

[1:05:11] But so anyway, so I'll say – yeah, you know what?

[1:05:13] Great movie.

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:14] I just love the idea of Cormac McCarthy being – like looking at his screen, like tapping his shit, being like, oh, man, that's fucked up.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:24] This will blow some minds.

[1:05:26] I wonder how the squares are going to handle this one.

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:31] Check out how fucked up this –

Dan McCoy

[1:05:34] The way I don't use that much punctuation, the squares are going to flip.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:40] Cormac McCarthy –

[1:05:41] Did it again, kid.

[1:05:43] He sends the – bam, boom, pow.

[1:05:45] Comics aren't for kids anymore thanks to Cormac McCarthy.

[1:05:48] Mature readers only.

[1:05:50] And he sends it to his publisher with a note that's like, dear editor, watch out.

[1:05:55] This one gets a little fucked up.

[1:05:58] I was listening to a lot of Slipknot while I was writing this one.

Dan McCoy

[1:06:06] Well, it seems like the only thing we can do is to thank our sponsors.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:12] Now imagining Cormac McCarthy shopping at Hot Topic.

[1:06:16] Mac is back, baby.

[1:06:20] Cormac, more like Gormac.

Dan McCoy

[1:06:22] This is going to get bloody.

[1:06:25] Let's take a moment and think.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:28] Now what if instead of Mac tonight being a giant moonheaded guy, it was Cormac tonight and it was Cormac McCarthy pitching McDonald's food for a more sophisticated adult audience?

[1:06:38] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:06:39] But it's –

[1:06:39] All the pretty burgers.

[1:06:40] It's sophisticated but a fucked up audience, right?

[1:06:44] Hey, hope you can handle these burgers.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:48] Because they're kind of wicked.

[1:06:52] Okay.

[1:06:58] Hey there, beautiful people.

[1:07:00] I'm Travelle Anderson.

Dan McCoy

[1:07:02] And I'm Jared Hill.

[1:07:03] We are the hosts of Fantae, the show where we have complex and complicado conversations about the gray areas in our lives.

[1:07:10] The things that we really, really love sometimes but also have some problematic feelings about.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:16] Yes, we get into it all.

[1:07:18] You want to know our thoughts about Nicki Minaj and all her foolishness?

[1:07:21] We got you.

[1:07:22] You want to know our thoughts about gentrification and perhaps some positive question mark aspects of gentrification?

[1:07:28] We get into that too.

[1:07:30] Every single Thursday, you can check us out at MaximumFun.org.

[1:07:35] Listen, you know you want it, honey.

[1:07:36] So come on and get it.

[1:07:38] Period.

[1:07:39] Period.

Dan McCoy

[1:07:40] Hi.

[1:07:41] My name is Graham Clark and I'm one half of the podcast Stop Podcasting Yourself, a show that we've recorded for many, many years.

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:49] And at the moment, instead of being in person, we're recording remotely and you wouldn't even notice.

[1:07:55] You don't even notice the lag.

Dan McCoy

[1:08:00] That's right, Graham.

[1:08:01] And the great thing about this.

[1:08:05] Go ahead.

[1:08:06] No, you go ahead.

[1:08:07] Okay.

[1:08:08] Okay, go ahead.

[1:08:10] And you can listen to us every week on MaximumFun.org.

[1:08:16] Or wherever you get your podcasts.

[1:08:18] Your podcast.

[1:08:21] The Plop House is sponsored in part by Squarespace.

[1:08:25] It's the service that helps you turn your cool idea into a new website, blog or publish content, sell products and services of all kinds, and much, much more.

[1:08:35] And they help you do this by giving you templates created by world-class designers to make it all look nice for you with everything optimized for mobile right out of the blocks.

[1:08:45] Right out of the blocks.

[1:08:46] Right out of the blocks.

Elliott Kalan

[1:08:48] Yeah, boxes like a block, I guess.

[1:08:50] He's right.

[1:08:52] Cumular.

[1:08:53] Totally cumular, dude.

[1:08:55] Yeah, they're both totally cumular, Dan.

Dan McCoy

[1:08:59] Everything optimized for mobile right out of the box.

[1:09:03] A new way to buy domains and choose from over 200 extensions, free and secure hosting, much more.

[1:09:10] Hey, go to squarespace.com slash flop for a free trial.

[1:09:15] And when you're ready to launch, use the offer code flop.

[1:09:18] That's F-L-O-P to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:25] Hey, Dan, I had an idea for a website.

[1:09:26] What?

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:26] Anyway, it's called CormacDonalds.com.

[1:09:29] And it's a fest.

[1:09:31] And we've got our no country for old meat.

[1:09:33] Yeah, we've got all sorts of stuff.

[1:09:36] Anyway.

Stuart Wellington

[1:09:36] Hey, you know those McDougats characters that were singing and dancing and doing shit?

[1:09:39] Yeah.

[1:09:39] Now you're about to eat those guys.

[1:09:41] Isn't that fucked up?

[1:09:42] Yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:42] Oh, and they're all just like killing people and blowing stuff up.

Dan McCoy

[1:09:44] I mean, those Fry Guys kind of look like the haircut that Anton Shakur has.

[1:09:49] Yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:50] Yeah, yeah.

[1:09:50] They're all, yeah, the Fry Guys are just walking around with those cattle piston guns just,

[1:09:54] and the Hamburglar, he stole from the wrong dudes, and now they're out to get him.

[1:09:59] Yeah, that makes sense.

[1:10:00] And he's like, Grimace, Grimace, you got to hide me, but Grimace's throat has already

[1:10:03] been cut.

[1:10:03] Oh, no, it's terrible.

[1:10:06] This podcast-

[1:10:07] I guess that bird, what's the bird's name?

[1:10:09] She's like the ultra assassin that gets sent after him.

[1:10:11] Birdie.

[1:10:11] I think the name is just Birdie.

[1:10:13] Yeah, yeah, okay.

Dan McCoy

[1:10:15] This podcast is also sponsored in part by-

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:17] Now, Dan, now, okay, I've got a different author McDonald's mashup.

[1:10:20] What if instead of Ronald McDonald, it was Roald McDonald, and it's Roald Dahl, but with

[1:10:24] the power of McDonald's.

[1:10:26] Uh-huh.

[1:10:27] So the BFG is the big fries giant, that kind of stuff, you know?

[1:10:31] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:10:31] Yeah.

[1:10:35] Obviously, Willy Wonka would have a burger factory in this scenario.

[1:10:38] Yeah.

[1:10:39] So, Dan, who's next on the sponsors?

Dan McCoy

[1:10:41] The next sponsor is BetterHelp Online Therapy.

[1:10:45] We talk about BetterHelp a lot on this show, and this month, we're discussing some of the

[1:10:49] stigmas around mental health.

[1:10:51] For example, some people think you should wait until things are unbearable to go to therapy,

[1:10:57] but that's not true.

[1:10:59] Therapy is a tool you can use before things get worse to sort of give you the coping mechanisms

[1:11:05] that will help you when things get bad, you know, help you process and deal with your emotions

[1:11:12] in a healthy way so you can avoid the lowest lows.

[1:11:16] You know, you're never going to be happy all the time, but what you can do is learn how to deal with and even appreciate your bad feelings,

[1:11:28] you know, understand how they're part of you.

[1:11:31] It's all stuff that therapy can help with.

[1:11:34] And BetterHelp is customized online therapy, offering video phone and even live chat sessions with your therapist.

[1:11:41] So if you don't want to see people on camera, you don't have to.

[1:11:45] It can be even more affordable than in-person therapy, and you can be matched with a therapist in under 48 hours.

[1:11:53] Give it a try and see why over 2 million people have used BetterHelp Online Therapy.

[1:11:57] This podcast is sponsored by them, and the Flophouse listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com.

[1:12:06] That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P.com slash flop.

[1:12:15] I believe you all have some Jumbotrons.

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:17] J-J-J-J-Jumbotrons.

[1:12:20] I'm going to go first.

[1:12:22] Oh, okay.

[1:12:22] No, Elliot, you go first.

[1:12:24] No, no, go first, Stu.

[1:12:25] Go for it.

[1:12:25] Oh, really?

[1:12:26] For sure?

[1:12:27] Okay, I'm going to go.

[1:12:28] Yeah.

[1:12:29] This message is for the original Peaches.

[1:12:32] That's us.

[1:12:33] The message is from Perpetually Flopping in Portland.

[1:12:38] I became a new listener in 2021, and per Spotify's Wrapped, I've listened to 30,207 minutes of the Flophouse this year.

[1:12:49] Boys, that's 21 straight days of hearing your angelic spirits slowly dying over 14 years.

[1:12:57] For the amount of genuine joy you've brought me in a bad year, the least I could do was snag a Tron to sincerely thank you with all my heart.

[1:13:07] Oh, thank you.

[1:13:08] So thank you, Perpetually Flopping in Portland.

[1:13:10] That's a lot of time.

Dan McCoy

[1:13:11] I also like to celebrate with Tron.

Stuart Wellington

[1:13:13] Uh-huh.

[1:13:13] He does.

[1:13:14] He likes to celebrate with Tron.

Dan McCoy

[1:13:16] I'm celibate because of Tron.

Stuart Wellington

[1:13:18] It happens.

[1:13:19] Sometimes lasers just shoot off your ding-dong.

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:22] And he does get stuck in an arcade game and, you know.

[1:13:25] It makes it hard, right?

[1:13:26] Well, depending if that's what you're into, it certainly does.

[1:13:30] Anyway, our other Jumbotron is for Nick, and it's from Derek.

[1:13:35] And Derek says to Nick, welcome to your 30s, kid.

[1:13:39] Hard to believe it's already been a decade since you were turning 20 and just starting to find your calling.

[1:13:44] A lot has changed in the world and our lives since then, but not the love and pride I have for you.

[1:13:48] I'm so proud of you, the things you've achieved, and the things you're going to achieve.

[1:13:52] Love you and see you soon.

[1:13:54] What a sweet, wonderful message.

[1:13:56] That's adorable.

[1:13:57] I love it when people have nice things to say to each other.

[1:13:59] Mm-hmm.

[1:14:00] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:14:01] Yeah.

[1:14:02] That's better than the opposite.

Stuart Wellington

[1:14:03] Now what do we do on this podcast, Danny boy?

Dan McCoy

[1:14:07] Let's move on to letters from listeners.

[1:14:10] You write them.

[1:14:11] We read them.

[1:14:13] That's the order of events.

[1:14:15] This one is from.

[1:14:16] That's how it works.

[1:14:17] Amanda.

[1:14:19] Last name withheld.

[1:14:21] It's titled, Help a Clueless Mom Learn About Comics!

[1:14:25] Three exclamation points.

[1:14:28] Hello.

[1:14:29] I'm looking to start.

[1:14:30] Dan, give us each exclamation point individually, please.

[1:14:33] Hello, exclamation point.

[1:14:34] I'm looking to start my eight-year-old son reading comics.

[1:14:38] He loves superheroes and drawing, and I think he'd really enjoy reading comics.

[1:14:43] I went online and wow, exclamation point.

[1:14:46] It's overwhelming, exclamation point.

[1:14:48] I never read comics as a kid and have no idea where to start, exclamation point.

[1:14:53] My question is, what comics would you recommend for an eight-year-old?

[1:14:58] Like, where do I start?

[1:14:58] Thanks for any recommendations, exclamation point.

[1:15:01] I love the podcast, exclamation point.

[1:15:02] You guys make me laugh every week, exclamation point.

[1:15:08] Well, you know, I kind of found my way into comics through Donald Duck comics and Uncle Scrooge comics and old reprints of EC horror comics.

[1:15:25] And the only superhero comics I would read were the ones that my brothers.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:29] If Jack Davis heard you recommending EC horror comics to an eight-year-old, he would beat your ass.

[1:15:35] But I figured you guys would have.

[1:15:37] Well, Jack Davis isn't here.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:38] Go for it, Dan.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:39] Oh, wow.

[1:15:40] I guess you guys would be better qualified to.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:44] I mean, it's not a superhero comic, but I always recommend Bone is a great place to start reading comics.

[1:15:49] Oh, that's a great one.

[1:15:49] If a kid doesn't like Bone, I don't know that kid.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:53] Yeah, yeah.

[1:15:54] Some ones that are – so with superhero comics, it's a little hard.

[1:15:58] There are like younger reader versions of the different Marvel and DC heroes, but there's a certain level of violence in that that I still don't love my kids being involved with.

Dan McCoy

[1:16:11] Although speaking of Bone, I mean Jeff Smith also did that Shazam project that would be good for kids maybe.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:17] Yeah, that one's all right for kids too.

[1:16:18] But Bone is a magical series.

[1:16:21] Like that's a series that like is a – but there's a series called Hilo by Judd Winnick that my kids really like a lot that's a more superhero-y.

[1:16:33] My kids really like James Kachalka's kids' comics.

[1:16:36] He has a character called the Glorkian Warrior and that's – that they like a lot.

[1:16:40] And those are more just silly goofy than like adventure stories.

[1:16:45] But I would say you should ask your local librarian about things.

[1:16:51] But there's also – there's a series called Secret Coders where there are kids who like use math and coding skills to have adventures in high school, but it's for younger kids.

[1:17:02] Or maybe they're middle school kids.

[1:17:03] But that's one that my older son likes a lot because my older son is about to turn eight and he's a big comics reader right now.

[1:17:10] And a lot of it is him – give him one or two things to try or whatever your child's type of child is.

[1:17:18] Give them one or two things to try and see where they go from there.

[1:17:21] Like Zeta the Space Girl is a really good book that they might like.

[1:17:25] There's a book called Hereville, which is like a fantasy adventure starring an Orthodox Jewish character.

[1:17:30] But you don't have to be Jewish to read it and that book is really good.

[1:17:35] So – and any of those I think are good starts.

[1:17:38] But Bone is – that's the one that like I was super excited to get my kids into and it's just a – it's just such a really great series.

[1:17:47] And it's one that they can read now and read again later when they're older.

[1:17:50] Who knows?

[1:17:51] But –

[1:17:51] It's great.

[1:17:52] Go to the graphic novel section of your library and I bet they will have stuff for kids there and the librarians might be able to help you because it is a growing sector of graphic novels is stuff for kids and kind of middle grade readers.

[1:18:06] And a lot of it is not superhero, which is great because the less you can limit what this medium can do in your kids' eyes, the more they'll have to enjoy when they get older.

[1:18:16] And the less they'll get stuck in the superhero dungeon that I live in.

[1:18:20] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:18:21] It's a great name for a comic book shop though.

[1:18:25] Superhero dungeon.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:26] I mean, Android's dungeon is the comic shop from The Simpsons, right?

[1:18:29] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:18:31] Unless you have anything, Stuart.

Stuart Wellington

[1:18:33] No.

[1:18:33] I mean, I feel like it's kind of tough because a lot of – at least a lot of the superhero comics I remember reading as a kid I got exposed to when I was in like middle school.

[1:18:42] So that's a few years down the road.

[1:18:45] But I feel like maybe some of the like early Marvel stuff.

[1:18:48] Yeah.

[1:18:48] But even then like having read some early Marvel stuff, I'm like, oh, some of these relationships are pretty booked up.

[1:18:56] That's the thing.

[1:18:57] It's like –

[1:18:57] Not in a cool Cormac McCarthy way either.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:59] No.

[1:19:00] Not in a like, hey, sorry I freaked you out type of way.

[1:19:04] But you definitely have in the older – like the older Spider-Man books, the original Spider-Man books are some of the best of those.

[1:19:12] But yeah, a lot of the old superhero stuff has – there's a lot of gender assumptions, a lot of race assumptions.

[1:19:18] Even they were – when they're trying – like there's a lot of books I've been reading with an older son of old X-Men comics and you're like they're trying and getting it wrong in this one.

[1:19:27] But there's always a female character that kind of doesn't get to do anything and everyone has to protect all the time and that's not great stuff.

[1:19:34] But let them – introduce them to one or two things and then kind of let them loose to explore and find what they would like as long as they're not picking up Preacher or Faust or Veronica or something like that.

[1:19:47] Yeah, yeah.

[1:19:47] They'll be okay.

Dan McCoy

[1:19:49] You know what?

[1:19:50] I remember – I know that you're a Marvel zombie but I remember All-Star Superman being kind of a gentler –

Elliott Kalan

[1:20:00] I mean it's a – that's a great book but I wonder if – I'd be curious how – I haven't read it in years so I don't know.

[1:20:06] But I'd be curious how it holds up for someone who is not – that book is so explicitly nostalgic for an earlier type of comics.

[1:20:13] Yeah, yeah.

[1:20:13] And I wonder how that book works for someone who is not already steeped in where comics were the time.

[1:20:18] But there are like –

Stuart Wellington

[1:20:18] It's kind of dense too if I –

[1:20:20] Yes, I think so.

[1:20:22] It's great.

Elliott Kalan

[1:20:22] And it's got Frank Whiteley art which looks great but is – I think – when I was a kid I think I would have found Frank Whiteley's characters to look kind of weird and lumpy.

[1:20:29] That's what I like about it.

[1:20:30] But I would say take a look at – if you really want to show them superhero stuff then take a look maybe at some of the all-ages stuff put out by those publishers or something like –

[1:20:39] something like Zeta is not exactly superhero but it's like a science fiction fantasy adventure.

[1:20:44] You know?

[1:20:44] So anything like that.

Dan McCoy

[1:20:46] Let us move on to our second and final letter.

[1:20:49] It is from Michael.

[1:20:51] Last name withheld.

[1:20:52] Imperially.

[1:20:54] I've listened to your entire back catalog but this is the first time I've written.

Elliott Kalan

[1:20:58] Would you want to come on to my Sopranos podcast?

[1:21:00] Yeah, sure.

Dan McCoy

[1:21:02] Despite the happiness you have brought to my life over the last decade, apparently nothing inspired me to get in touch with you and express my heartfelt gratitude until episode 357, Santa Claus the Movie.

Elliott Kalan

[1:21:13] What did I get wrong about Star Wars this time, guys?

Dan McCoy

[1:21:16] For a few years now, this has been my fantasy that one day I would be famous enough or something to be invited as a guest of your show and choose for us to review this together.

[1:21:27] This thing which left an indelible scar on my teenage years.

[1:21:31] Let me describe the setting for you.

[1:21:33] It was the late 80s.

[1:21:34] An unusually big snowstorm had hit South Georgia.

[1:21:37] I stayed out in the snow too late at night, improperly dressed.

[1:21:40] What child in the Deep South knows how to dress for snowy weather anyway?

[1:21:44] And ended up with the flu.

[1:21:46] That year, Santa Claus the Movie was shown on television and I watched it in a state of misery, unsure of how much of it was a fever dream.

[1:21:54] I distinctly remember the jarring anachronism of Cornelia and Joe being revealed to be in modern-day New York.

[1:21:59] Not only had Joe been portrayed as a Victorian street urchin, as you all noted, but Cornelia was being forced by her nanny to do Latin homework.

[1:22:08] And suddenly, McDonald's, Coca-Cola, and Joe calling Cornelia corny.

[1:22:13] Dudley Moyer's performance seemed insanely annoying, and when BZ was revealed to be Cornelia's step-uncle, he gave her an incomprehensibly sinister greeting,

[1:22:22] as if she, too, was finding out for the first time who he was.

[1:22:26] I do remember that he does a little whirl around in his chair, as if she's going to be surprised.

[1:22:31] Oh, it's John Lithgow.

[1:22:33] By the time the titular movie got to the drugged-up floating children, I felt sicker and more miserable than I could remember ever being.

[1:22:40] But for some reason, I watched it to the end.

[1:22:43] Now, it would be natural for you to suspect that I'm exaggerating about the effect, but all of it was true, and perhaps that traumatic incident had something to do with why I came to hate Christmas.

[1:22:56] Perhaps this is why, in college, I preferred decidedly non-jolly and gruesome stories about the Bishop of Myra, Nicholas,

[1:23:04] such as the one of him resurrecting three children who had been butchered and pickled in a barrel by an unscrupulous businessman who was planning to sell them as pork.

[1:23:13] Perhaps this is why I converted to Judaism and moved to Jerusalem, where I only occasionally see hands of a secular and thoroughly Russian Father Frost for those residents' New Year's Eve celebration.

[1:23:28] Alas, I will probably never be famous enough to be invited as a guest host on my beloved Flophouse,

[1:23:34] But this Hanukkah, you gave me a thoroughly unexpected gift of joy.

[1:23:39] Keep on flopping.

[1:23:41] Sincerely, Michael, last name withheld, Jerusalem, Israel.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:44] I've always been confused by the idea of Santa Claus because it feels like you are doing – you're really making it harder for Christianity to get across to people.

[1:23:52] When you say to kids, there's a guy – there's a magic guy with a beard, and he can see you, and he knows when you're good or bad,

[1:24:00] and he's going to reward you if you're good, and he won't reward you if you're bad.

[1:24:03] And then when they grow up, you're like, psych, that was fake.

[1:24:06] But anyway, the other guy with the beard who can see everything you're doing and rewards you when you're good, and he does not reward you if you're bad, that's real.

[1:24:12] Like it feels like you are building in a disbelief in Jesus when you pregame it by creating this – by creating the shock of knowing Santa Claus is not real.

[1:24:19] See, this is good storytelling.

Dan McCoy

[1:24:21] This is like you create the red herring, the fake –

[1:24:24] Yeah, Dan's got a point.

[1:24:25] So you can spring the real twist on them later.

Elliott Kalan

[1:24:29] So the twist is that Santa's not real, but Jesus still is real.

[1:24:33] Yeah.

[1:24:33] I just – I don't know.

[1:24:35] Anyway, speaking of Israel and Israel, welcome to Judaism, I guess.

[1:24:38] I don't know when you converted, but nice job.

[1:24:41] Sure.

Stuart Wellington

[1:24:43] Now's another part of the show.

Dan McCoy

[1:24:44] Uh-huh.

[1:24:45] Let us talk about movies that we saw that we can recommend.

[1:24:51] The movie that I saw recently that I liked the most was Pig, which I saw on the plane back from celebrating Elliot's birthday.

[1:25:01] It fucking rules, right?

[1:25:03] Yeah.

[1:25:03] It's a really good movie.

[1:25:04] You know, I want to mention it again just because we're – you know, we spend so much time highlighting Nicolas Cage's lesser movies that I feel like I need to even the scales a little bit.

[1:25:15] But Stuart already recommended that one, so I'm going to go to Cop Shop, another movie I saw on a plane back to classic Dan here as the world opens up.

Elliott Kalan

[1:25:29] We will once again get more of Dan's – Dan in the air, our special segment we're done.

Dan McCoy

[1:25:35] Where his critical faculties are a little lower than normal.

Elliott Kalan

[1:25:39] Welcome to Mile High Viewing Club.

Dan McCoy

[1:25:42] No, Cop Shop is a Joe Carnahan movie.

[1:25:48] He is a huge mixed bag as a writer-director, I think.

[1:25:51] But, like, he can do entertaining sort of stripped-down thrillers.

[1:25:57] Carnahan?

[1:25:58] Mm-hmm.

[1:25:58] Let's see.

[1:25:59] What else did he do?

[1:26:00] He did The Grey.

[1:26:01] He did The A-Team.

[1:26:03] Okay.

[1:26:03] He did Smoking Naces and Boss Level.

[1:26:07] Not as good, those ones, as the –

[1:26:10] But this one was fun.

[1:26:15] And, you know, it's a redemption of sorts for another Flophouse favorite.

[1:26:20] Gerard Butler's in it.

[1:26:21] Gremlin Butler?

[1:26:22] Gremlin Butler.

[1:26:23] He's good in it.

[1:26:25] Frank Grillo, who –

[1:26:28] Sure, Crossbones.

[1:26:29] Yeah, Crossbones, yeah.

[1:26:31] Toby Huss from Halt and Catch Fire.

[1:26:34] Right, he's good.

[1:26:35] He's in it.

[1:26:35] Alexis Louder is the lead, and I was less –

Elliott Kalan

[1:26:40] I mean, Toby Huss is –

[1:26:41] I'm amazed that Halt and Catch Fire is your go-to for Toby Huss.

[1:26:44] That's interesting.

[1:26:45] What would be –

[1:26:45] What's yours?

[1:26:46] Artie, the strongest man in the world from The Adventures of Pete and Pete.

[1:26:50] Oh, he was?

[1:26:51] And his many voices on King of the Hill.

[1:26:53] Yeah.

[1:26:54] Oh, my God.

Dan McCoy

[1:26:56] Alexis Louder is a bit more of a newcomer for me, but she was terrific as the sort of –

[1:27:01] the person who's revealed over the course of it to be kind of the lead of the movie.

[1:27:07] It's just a movie about this guy who's looking to not get killed, so he deliberately gets himself arrested,

[1:27:15] except for so does one of the people looking to kill him.

[1:27:21] And then there's a –

Elliott Kalan

[1:27:22] I thought you meant except for so does.

[1:27:24] That's the one thing – he's looking to get – that's his one exception.

Dan McCoy

[1:27:29] It turns into sort of an Assault on Precinct 13 situation where he's inside this police station being held,

[1:27:36] and people on the outside want to kill him.

[1:27:40] And I would say that much like Grand Isle, the first couple acts are better than the last.

[1:27:46] It gets a little too crazy.

[1:27:47] Like I like a movie of this type that's a little more stripped down and with a one foot in reality,

[1:27:53] and at the end, reality goes out the window.

[1:27:56] But if you like –

Stuart Wellington

[1:27:58] Like in Takeshi Miyege's Dead or Alive?

[1:28:00] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:28:00] If you like a – I'm not quite that out the window,

[1:28:04] but if you like a good low-budget action thriller, you could do worse than Cop Shop.

Stuart Wellington

[1:28:13] What?

[1:28:13] They're not all going to be like housing endorsements.

[1:28:15] No, they're not all going to be fucking slam dunk.

[1:28:18] No, I understand.

[1:28:19] I understand.

[1:28:20] Yeah, man.

[1:28:21] I get it.

[1:28:21] It's cool.

[1:28:22] I'm going to jump in here and do a recommendation.

[1:28:25] I'm going to recommend – what?

[1:28:27] Another two movies?

[1:28:28] I'm going to recommend two movies that popped up on Netflix.

[1:28:32] I'm going to recommend The Fable and its sequel, The Fable, The Killer Who Doesn't Kill.

[1:28:38] They are Japanese action comedies.

[1:28:41] I believe they're based on a manga.

[1:28:43] The premise is fairly simple.

[1:28:46] You have the world's greatest hitman assassin, and he gets too much heat on him,

[1:28:51] so his boss makes him go undercover in Osaka,

[1:28:55] and he has to live a normal life without killing anybody.

[1:28:58] Of course, he runs into trouble, and he has to manage to maintain his vow of not killing anybody

[1:29:04] while also getting into all kinds of action shenanigans.

[1:29:07] It's super silly and funny, and the action sequences are fucking badass.

[1:29:14] They're great.

[1:29:16] I recommend them.

[1:29:18] The Fable.

[1:29:19] And The Fable, killer who doesn't kill.

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:21] Speaking of super silly and just wacky, anyway, I wanted to recommend Malcolm X,

[1:29:25] directed by Spike Lee and Stan Denzel Washington.

[1:29:28] I'm in the middle of this thing where every now and then I'm going back and watching movies

[1:29:32] that came out in the 90s where I was just a little too young to actually go see them.

[1:29:37] And so this is one that I was catching up on, and I thought it was really great.

[1:29:41] I was – it's an example of – it's a long movie, but the movie kind of flies by, to be honest,

[1:29:48] and it feels like real big budget, and I don't know how big the budget was.

[1:29:53] Fairly big, I guess.

[1:29:53] Like 80s, 90s historical moviemaking and real epic scope.

[1:29:58] But what I liked about it was that the movie, among other – the fact that it looks great

[1:30:01] and it's really – it's entertaining but also interesting, and Denzel Washington's amazing in it.

[1:30:06] Everybody is – but that it's very much a biography of a person going through several changes

[1:30:12] emotionally and intellectually throughout it, and they really take his ideas seriously

[1:30:16] and the way they developed throughout his life seriously.

[1:30:18] As like, we're not just telling the story of this person's life divorced of what was actually going on

[1:30:24] in their head that made them an important person.

[1:30:26] We're going to show you – and we're not going to show you like just one chunk of his life

[1:30:31] and make that representative of the entirety.

[1:30:33] They're showing how he changed throughout his whole life and how his thinking changed.

[1:30:36] And I thought that was really fascinating, that it was focused more on like his ideas

[1:30:41] and how he changed as a person in his cultural and social framework than just on like –

[1:30:46] and then this thing happened in his life, and then this thing happened.

[1:30:49] Anyway, it was really great.

Stuart Wellington

[1:30:51] That's such an – I mean, that's a really good point.

[1:30:52] I feel like it's so common with biographical movies of figures is to just focus –

[1:30:59] like assume they are this one person and then just present their life without anything.

[1:31:03] Yeah.

[1:31:03] Or there's the oftentimes better choice of like, here, let's just show a snippet,

[1:31:09] something like Selma, where they're like, this is just going to be a little bit.

[1:31:12] We're not trying to give you the entire picture of this figure.

[1:31:15] Mm-hmm.

[1:31:16] But Malcolm X kind of does that.

[1:31:18] It's great.

Elliott Kalan

[1:31:19] Yeah.

[1:31:19] I mean, it gives – a lot of those movies, I think, give the impression that people are

[1:31:23] kind of stuck in one place and that they – or that they have a very easily defined arc where

[1:31:28] it's like – and this is where the story of their life ends, even if their life continues

[1:31:32] going.

[1:31:33] Like this is their achievement.

[1:31:34] Whereas Malcolm X really gets across the idea of somebody who was changing throughout his

[1:31:38] whole life and was still changing when he was murdered.

[1:31:41] So it's – I thought it was – that's something that I haven't seen very much in movies.

[1:31:45] And obviously it's a different type of movie than like A Beautiful Mind, but it really

[1:31:49] made me irritated that A Beautiful Mind is like, this guy's a brilliant mathematician,

[1:31:52] but we don't need to get into his math at all.

[1:31:54] Like we don't really need to – like we don't – all we're interested in is the – is

[1:31:58] this – is the kind of like the details of his –

Dan McCoy

[1:32:02] The easy like Oscar bait personal stuff.

Elliott Kalan

[1:32:07] Whereas this is – this feels like a movie that really engages with why is this person

[1:32:11] an important person?

[1:32:12] Like why – what is it that made him different or galvanizing for other people other than

[1:32:17] just – I feel like the easy way is just to show someone giving speeches and have people

[1:32:20] go, yeah, yeah.

[1:32:22] And there's – this does more than that.

[1:32:23] So anyway, I was really glad that I watched it.

[1:32:25] And if the length of it puts you off at all because it's like three and a half hours long,

[1:32:31] like I said, it's a fast moving three and a half hours.

[1:32:33] Or you do it like I did and watch it in segments.

[1:32:34] Don't sit through it all the way through.

[1:32:36] And it's just amazing how – I feel like this was – all I knew about this movie when

[1:32:41] I was a kid was that it was like controversial and the idea that like to make a big biopic

[1:32:46] of Malcolm X was like controversial.

[1:32:48] And it's one of those movies where watching it now, I'm like, I don't – like it's

[1:32:51] hard – I don't really see what's controversial about it.

[1:32:53] Like at least where America is now, it's like – I don't know.

[1:32:57] Just – it was interesting to think about that, that when I was a kid, it was like this

[1:33:00] was a dangerous movie in a way, the way I remember hearing people talk about it.

[1:33:05] And watching it, I was like, oh, no, this is a really good movie.

[1:33:07] This is not a movie that is going to – that I feel like doesn't give you all sides of this

[1:33:13] person, you know.

[1:33:14] Anyway, so that's Malcolm X.

[1:33:16] Go see it.

[1:33:16] It's on HBO Max, I guess.

[1:33:17] Or buy the DVD.

[1:33:18] I don't know.

[1:33:19] Or go to Spike Lee's house.

[1:33:20] I'm sure he's got a copy.

Stuart Wellington

[1:33:21] Or buy the – what, the VHS double – double – yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:33:25] Yeah, that was – there was something about as a kid seeing any movie that was on two VHS

[1:33:30] tapes and being like, that's a movie.

[1:33:31] Yeah, like I remember –

Stuart Wellington

[1:33:32] He used to be in two tapes and I'm like, oh, shit, this has got to be a movie.

Elliott Kalan

[1:33:37] When I was like a teenager seeing Seven Samurai in the library as a two VHS movie and being

[1:33:43] like, this movie must be huge.

[1:33:45] There must be so much movie going on.

Stuart Wellington

[1:33:47] Yeah, each tape only has three and a half samurai.

Elliott Kalan

[1:33:53] I want to see all seven.

[1:33:54] I got to watch both tapes.

[1:33:57] And then when the first DVDs came out and you had to flip them over to get to the other

[1:34:01] side to get to the rest of the movie.

[1:34:03] You don't remember that?

Stuart Wellington

[1:34:04] Those shitty cardboard like clamshell things.

[1:34:07] Man, those things were fucking trash.

[1:34:09] Give me CD long boxes.

[1:34:11] Bring me back CD long boxes, baby.

[1:34:13] No, it's such a waste of packaging.

[1:34:15] Yeah, but the art – you get that full bleed art, Ellie.

[1:34:17] It's amazing.

[1:34:17] It looks so great.

Elliott Kalan

[1:34:18] No, but what I liked about those crappy cardboard packaging was that, one, you didn't feel bad

[1:34:22] throwing it away because it looked like trash.

[1:34:24] You could just put them in a CD book.

[1:34:25] What?

[1:34:25] But also they'd give you the titles for all the chapters right there on the package.

[1:34:30] When you open it up, you get all the titles for all the chapters in the movie, which is – which

[1:34:35] was a job when I was younger I always wanted was the person who named the chapters because

[1:34:39] it seems totally unnecessary.

[1:34:40] It's not like the director and the screenwriter are sitting there being like, now as we make

[1:34:44] this movie, we've got to name each of the chapters.

[1:34:46] We've got to make it clear what's going on.

Stuart Wellington

[1:34:47] Our friend Bill Hickey always joked about how obvious it was in the scene in Roadhouse

[1:34:51] that that scene would be titled Be Nice.

Dan McCoy

[1:34:57] Well, that's another cage mess for the books.

[1:35:01] Another year passed.

[1:35:02] I know it's been a rough one.

[1:35:05] I just want to say thank you to all of you.

[1:35:08] This year is going to be better, right?

[1:35:10] Yeah.

[1:35:10] Well, look, even if it's not, I want to thank all of you listeners for being here with us.

[1:35:15] I want to thank you, Elliot and Stuart, for being my friend.

[1:35:21] I know that it's hard to live in this world sometimes.

[1:35:25] I don't know why I feel the obligation at cage mess to do a summing up, but like just –

[1:35:30] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:31] I mean it's the last episode of the year, I guess.

[1:35:33] But I mean everything's going to be okay.

[1:35:35] It's not.

[1:35:35] There's more.

[1:35:36] I guess that's true.

Dan McCoy

[1:35:37] You know, I'm just saying like don't let it – like don't let it get you down.

[1:35:41] The only thing you can –

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:42] I don't know why Grand Isle has brought up these emotions in you.

Dan McCoy

[1:35:44] The only thing you can control is yourself.

[1:35:47] So don't – if you can, don't harden.

[1:35:50] Have empathy towards yourself.

[1:35:52] Have empathy towards others.

[1:35:54] We're glad to have you with us.

[1:35:55] It's like Dalton always says, be nice.

[1:35:57] Be nice until it's time to not be nice.

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:59] No, Dan, there's a very – there's almost no times when you shouldn't be nice.

[1:36:02] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:36:03] Yeah, but Dalton says he'll tell you when the time comes.

[1:36:06] You'll know.

Elliott Kalan

[1:36:07] Okay.

[1:36:07] So wait until Dalton tells you.

[1:36:08] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:36:09] Wait, so is that what be Dalton booksellers was?

[1:36:11] Was it be nice Dalton?

[1:36:12] Yeah.

[1:36:14] Be period nice Dalton.

[1:36:16] Thank you to Alex Smith, our editor.

[1:36:19] Thank you to Maximum Fun, our network.

[1:36:23] Go to MaximumFun.org for other great podcasts.

[1:36:26] But until next time, I've been Dan McCoy.

[1:36:28] I'm Stuart Wellington.

Elliott Kalan

[1:36:29] I'm Elliot Kalin saying Merry Cagemas, one and all.

[1:36:34] Bye.

Stuart Wellington

[1:36:40] Just posting a TikTok of me fucking with Dan.

Elliott Kalan

[1:36:44] Whoa.

[1:36:45] Stuart, you really live more online than in meatspace now.

Stuart Wellington

[1:36:49] The only meatspace I'm thinking about is the one between Nicolas Cage's legs.

[1:36:55] That's my first try.

[1:36:58] I'm workshopping.

[1:36:59] The first try at what?

[1:37:00] I'm not sure what you're trying at.

[1:37:01] Make like a horny Nicolas Cage joke.

Elliott Kalan

[1:37:04] Oh, I see.

[1:37:04] Okay.

[1:37:05] All right.

[1:37:08] MaximumFun.org.

Dan McCoy

[1:37:09] Comedy and culture.

[1:37:11] Artist owned.

[1:37:12] Audience supported.

Ep. #358 - Grand Isle

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