FH Mini 157 - Gremlins: The Rough Cut, with Ian Grant

Dan McCoy

[0:00] Hey, everyone, and welcome to another Flophouse Mini.

[0:07] Of course, this is the Flophouse.

[0:09] It's a podcast, normally, where we talk about a movie

[0:12] that was critically or commercially rejected.

[0:15] But, you know, on our off weeks,

[0:18] on every other week, we talk about whatever.

[0:20] We just freeform it, man.

[0:22] What do you want from us?

[0:24] It's content.

[0:25] I guess a lot of attitude.

[0:27] You turned hostile fast.

Stuart Wellington

[0:28] This is the new Dan.

Dan McCoy

[0:29] What are you, a rice pudding restaurant?

[0:31] What's going on?

[0:32] Yeah, yeah.

[0:33] That is a reference to...

[0:35] All right, we're going to delay this a little bit.

[0:37] I texted Elliot and Stuart a picture of this rice pudding restaurant

[0:43] in, like, I guess it's like Soho.

[0:47] Very aggressive signage.

[0:48] A lot of signage that just, like, you know, like,

[0:51] enjoy the calories, idiot.

[0:54] It's like, you're already fat.

[0:55] Eat it all.

[0:57] It's just like, wow, this pudding restaurant.

[0:59] It doesn't care who it offends, I guess.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01] And it's like attitude continues.

[1:03] It's like signs everywhere giving a lot of attitude.

[1:06] Like, it's the rice pudding equivalent of Yosemite Sam telling you to back off.

[1:10] Yeah.

[1:10] And, but there's, it includes a sign that's like restaurants, or restaurants,

[1:15] restrooms for customers only idiot.

[1:17] Yeah.

[1:18] Yeah.

[1:18] So, because they don't even deserve the humanity of a clean restroom to use.

[1:22] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:23] But this isn't, this isn't a podcast about signs I saw.

[1:27] Where we review the signs on rice pudding restaurants.

Elliott Kalan

[1:30] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:30] Yeah.

[1:31] My, of course, my co-hosts, Elliot Kalin and Stuart Wellington.

[1:35] Nice to meet you.

[1:35] They've been talking already.

[1:37] Yeah.

[1:37] But we have a guest.

[1:38] We have a guest we would like to welcome and stop wasting time with pudding talk.

[1:44] Ian, his name is Ian Grant.

[1:46] He's the founder and proprietor of the Gremlins Museum.

[1:49] And he's also been in the news lately for his two hour, 45-ish minute cut of Gremlins with

[1:56] a lot of extended and previously unseen footage.

Elliott Kalan

[1:59] And he slowed a bunch of scenes down.

[2:01] A lot of it, the characters are noticeably talking slower, moving slower.

[2:04] Whoa.

[2:05] Just to meet that runtime.

Dan McCoy

[2:08] Um, bathroom buddy.

[2:11] Thank you.

[2:12] Great to be here, guys.

Stuart Wellington

[2:14] And Ian, even though Dan said we're not talking about pudding stuff, if you have pudding

[2:18] opinions, this is the place to put them.

Elliott Kalan

[2:20] We don't want to put limits on what you have to say about rice pudding or the state of,

[2:23] or the town of Topeka, Kansas.

[2:25] For a while, this was a, this was a podcast where people aired their, their thoughts on

[2:28] Topeka, Kansas.

[2:29] Grievances, mostly.

[2:30] Um, yeah, but thank you so much for joining us.

[2:32] You are, um, by far the premier scholar and collector and, um, I don't know.

[2:39] Advocate?

[2:40] Torchbearer, advocate for Gremlins.

[2:42] Um, Dan, you're supposed to be running this thing.

[2:45] I have questions I'd like to ask, but maybe Dan, you should ask the first question.

Dan McCoy

[2:47] Well, yeah, I should say also, you know, uh, as this is an audio medium, uh, a delight,

[2:52] of course, to, uh, see all of the Gremlins in the background, uh, preserved in their little,

[2:58] uh, plastic boxes.

Elliott Kalan

[3:00] These are, these are the Gremlins puppets and props.

[3:02] Not, they're not live Gremlins who are bedeviling me right now.

[3:05] Screaming to get out.

Stuart Wellington

[3:08] Normally well behaved.

S4

[3:10] This is how we contain the stench.

[3:11] These things, uh, all the preservatives and stuff to keep them still in shape.

[3:15] It's the only way to kind of do it.

[3:17] I'm amazed.

Elliott Kalan

[3:18] I'm amazed that those, that they're still, that they still exist because I know that,

[3:21] that like the, the, the foam and things that they're made out of deteriorate really, really

[3:25] quickly.

[3:26] Right.

S4

[3:26] Yeah.

[3:27] They, they weren't designed to last more than like the production.

[3:30] And, uh, especially in scenes like in, in Dory's in the first movie, uh, you know,

[3:34] they were covered in beer and salt and all sorts of nasty stuff.

[3:38] And so, you know, when I get them, they're, they're usually kind of rotting out and heads

[3:43] off.

[3:44] And, uh, you know, the, the one on my, uh, my right here is his face was basically melting

[3:50] off.

[3:50] It's, you know, it's, they're pretty rough shape usually when, when they arrive.

Dan McCoy

[3:54] Yeah.

[3:54] I was, I was actually, I was going to get into this later.

[3:57] Like the, so you're, the Gremlins museum is, um, a, you can take a virtual tour, but it

[4:03] at this point is not open to the public.

[4:04] And part of it is that you do so much preservation work.

[4:07] And I was reading on your website about the preservation and really threw cold water on my

[4:12] own dreams of like having a Gremlin.

[4:15] Whenever there's like an auction somewhere with Gremlins, I'm like, well, this is like several

[4:19] thousand dollars.

[4:20] I can't afford it anyway, but also like, I guess I can feel better about it now.

[4:24] Cause I, uh, it seems like it would be as hard as owning like an actual mogwai and having

[4:30] to follow the rules.

[4:32] There's just three rules, Dan.

Elliott Kalan

[4:33] They're not that hard to follow.

[4:35] I mean, there's never been an example of somebody.

[4:37] I have two movies that will say you're wrong.

[4:39] Because I was going to say two words, Billy Peltzer.

[4:41] I think he is not the best guy for taking care of mogwai.

[4:43] Oh wow, he's the villain.

Dan McCoy

[4:45] What do you, what do you think about this?

[4:46] What do you think about this Billy slander?

[4:49] What do you, uh.

S4

[4:50] I don't know.

[4:50] He, uh, he did kind of break all the rules pretty quick, right?

Stuart Wellington

[4:53] Like right away.

[4:55] And I feel like Dan has a lot in common with Billy Peltzer.

[4:58] Dan comes from a small town.

[5:00] Dan is a little bit of a doodler.

[5:04] Just like Billy.

Elliott Kalan

[5:05] Yeah.

[5:05] That's true.

[5:06] Dan's best friend is also a young actor.

[5:10] So a child actor, just like in the first prevalence.

Stuart Wellington

[5:12] Dan would also get very nervous around Phoebe Cates.

[5:15] I would get extremely nervous around Phoebe Cates.

Elliott Kalan

[5:19] But, uh.

[5:20] How do you, you know, I'm curious about how these, first, my main question is how did,

[5:24] how did the, how did the museum begin?

[5:26] But also how did these gremlins fall into your hands?

[5:28] Like do you just, do they arrive on your doorstep in a basket?

[5:30] There's a note that just says, please take care of my gremlin.

[5:33] Because what a life.

[5:34] What a great life that would be.

S4

[5:36] I, like a lot of my earliest memories kind of revolve around gremlins.

[5:39] And so, um, I don't know, I guess it's always kind of just been there.

[5:42] And I never really had any desire to own like actual props until I think, I don't know, maybe

[5:48] gremlins 2 came out.

[5:49] And then I was like, well, somebody's got to own this.

[5:52] Like somebody's got to, you know, there's got to be a way to get this.

[5:55] And it kind of always stuck with me that if I ever had like any play money, that this would

[5:59] be something that I'd probably do.

[6:01] And at some point, right as we were kind of selling a business, um, this like first movie

[6:08] puppet basically showed up on eBay and I caught it within maybe like five minutes of it getting

[6:13] posted.

[6:14] And so I messaged the guy, I was like, Hey, like, what do you want for this?

[6:18] Like, let's just work something out right now.

[6:20] And the guy was like, uh, like $200.

[6:24] Wow.

[6:25] And, and so I was like, send the invoice.

[6:30] So if it was idiot, you have no idea what you do, what you have on your hands.

[6:34] Yeah.

[6:34] He knew, like he said, it was, you know, it's a puppet from the movie.

[6:37] Like it came from Warner Brothers.

[6:38] So it wasn't like I was trying to like rip some guy off or anything.

[6:42] Um, but you know, it was beheaded.

[6:44] It was in really rough shape.

[6:45] So, I mean, you know, he didn't want to deal with it essentially.

[6:49] And, um, it was funny because, um, you know, I'm just sitting there like,

[6:54] praying this thing arrives.

[6:56] Like who knows what the, you know, what's going to happen.

[6:59] And at the time I lived in this house where it was like on a cul-de-sac where like two

[7:04] roads inter like connected there.

[7:06] And I had a neighbor who had the exact same house number as me.

[7:10] And, and so we're constantly like sharing packages because they inevitably, they would never end up in the right place.

[7:17] And sure enough.

[7:18] The neighbor's like, what the hell is happening?

[7:22] Sure enough, this gremlin arrives on like his doorstep, you know, this, you know, as my wife calls him, you know, car priced, uh, you know, foam things.

[7:33] And, uh, I went over there, grabbed it.

[7:36] And sure enough, like that was it.

[7:37] And I think it's probably like the best preserved gremlin that exists.

[7:42] Um, there's probably less than 20 in the world of these things, uh, from their first movie.

[7:46] So it's, you know, finding anything like that is like winning the lottery essentially.

[7:51] That's amazing.

Dan McCoy

[7:52] Yeah.

[7:53] Well, uh, let's stick with, uh, sort of the museum stuff.

[7:57] Like we're, we're all big, uh, gremlins fans on this show.

[8:01] Uh, Elliot is very, um, uh, vociferous in his admiration of, uh, gremlins too, specifically.

Elliott Kalan

[8:08] I have, I don't.

[8:09] I mean, I love the first one too.

[8:10] The first one is, was the movie I probably watched the most growing up.

Dan McCoy

[8:13] So.

[8:13] Yeah, we're all grim, grim heads.

[8:15] Grim heads.

[8:15] I don't have, uh, I don't have any puppets, but I, one of the first.

[8:20] Well, you don't have any gremlins puppets.

[8:21] You have other puppets.

[8:22] I do have other puppets.

[8:23] That's true.

[8:24] I am the sort of man who owns puppets.

[8:26] But, uh, also, uh, one of the first and best, uh, gifts that my wife got for me is a Polish gremlins poster.

[8:32] I have a, like, gremlins corner, uh, not too far away, including a painting I made of, a shot from gremlins.

[8:40] Um, what, what, I assume you have sort of an origin story.

[8:44] As the, uh, as the foremost gremlins, uh, gremlinologist.

[8:50] Gremlinologist.

[8:51] Uh, what would you say that is?

[8:52] What, uh.

S4

[8:53] I think the, what first got me into it.

[8:56] Um, I remember distinctly seeing the first gremlins in a drive-thru theater as a kid.

[9:01] So, I was born in 81.

[9:02] Good way to see it.

[9:02] And so, um, you know, I was like kind of a young'un.

[9:05] It was rated PG.

[9:06] Parents, you know, across the country sent their kids to see this horror movie.

[9:11] Um, so I was into it.

Dan McCoy

[9:13] Learning about Santa Claus.

[9:15] Yeah.

S4

[9:16] Right.

[9:16] Um, and, uh, I remember distinctly probably, it must have been 85 because my dad, uh, made

[9:23] the astute decision to go buy a Betamax player.

[9:27] And, uh, gremlins was one of the first tapes.

[9:30] And, uh, the guy who sold it to us, he's like, I think you should have this.

[9:34] And it was this very 80s, uh, gremlins rub and play, like, play set.

[9:39] And it was those things, they, they almost like, um, they come on like, it's like little

[9:43] illustrations and then you have to kind of scratch them with a, with a nickel, you know.

[9:47] And they transfer to, like, the background or like this chaos.

[9:50] Oh, yeah, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[9:51] I think I had that same set.

Elliott Kalan

[9:52] Yeah, yeah.

[9:52] Yeah.

[9:53] I had that and I had the, like, color forms, uh, one where you can, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[9:57] I may have had that too.

[9:57] I definitely had the, uh, they did a set of, like, what, what, what was the fast food

[10:03] place that did, like, a set of records that was the Hardee's thing?

Stuart Wellington

[10:07] It was Hardee's?

[10:08] Yeah.

[10:08] It was Hardee's, yeah.

[10:09] Because my mom, to this day, will quote, I think, the opening of the final record where

[10:14] it just goes, Kate and Billy.

S4

[10:19] Those are huge.

[10:19] They're still around all, all over the place.

[10:22] Uh, you know, it's, it's such a weird movie because they rated it PG.

[10:25] So, kids were all over this and they had commercials where, you know, you buy your Gremlin cereal,

[10:30] buy enough of it, you get your own gizmo.

[10:32] And they had great commercials.

[10:34] Like, I don't know, it's, it's such a weird, like, it doesn't exist anywhere else.

Elliott Kalan

[10:39] That was also, the 80s was the time when, when kids were allowed to have anything because,

[10:44] like, the fact that there was a talking Freddy Krueger doll, like, you could get a lunchbox

[10:48] with Freddy Krueger or Jason on it.

[10:50] And it's like, this doesn't make sense.

[10:51] And Freddy would hate that.

[10:52] Why does Rambo have his own cartoon show?

[10:53] Because Freddy hates kids.

S4

[10:55] You want to keep Freddy away from children.

[10:58] Even on the Gremlins lunchbox, there's gremlins smoking on the bottom of it.

[11:02] Like, it's crazy.

[11:03] That would never exist today.

[11:04] No, well, that's, everybody smoked back then.

Stuart Wellington

[11:05] This was, this was, this was.

[11:06] I have this lunchbox that has the minions dropping acid.

Dan McCoy

[11:12] Yeah.

[11:13] In preparation for this, like, I just got curious and I was, like, Googling, like, people's,

[11:17] like, thematic takes on Gremlins.

[11:20] And I got to some terrible medium article by some person who was like, well, you know,

[11:25] like, Gremlins is actually good.

[11:28] This movie that everyone thinks is bad.

[11:30] And I'm like, what are you talking about?

[11:32] I can only assume this is a younger person who, like, is baffled in part by, like, exactly

[11:39] what we're talking about.

[11:40] Like, how is this a thing that was allowed for white audiences?

[11:45] Like, it's so mean, but it's also for kids.

S4

[11:49] Yeah, I mean, there's shooting, there's drinking, there's smoking.

[11:52] Like, it's all the kind of things that you would never see in, like, a kid's movie nowadays.

[11:56] I mean, people genuinely get hurt.

Elliott Kalan

[11:57] Like, Mrs. Deagle is dead.

[11:59] Like, there's no, there's no scene of them pulling her out of the snow and, like, and

[12:02] people get hurt who don't deserve it.

[12:04] Also, there's the guy who's just delivering, just putting his mail into the mailbox and basically

[12:07] gets eaten.

[12:08] And it's like, this is the, uh.

Stuart Wellington

[12:11] And Mr. What is it?

[12:12] Mr. Futterman has some pretty negative attitudes toward.

[12:16] Towards non-Americans?

[12:17] Non-Americans, yeah.

[12:18] Yeah.

[12:19] Yep.

Elliott Kalan

[12:19] Well, there was a, I read once a really good take on, um, on the idea of it as a, the,

[12:26] the way that, that, uh, it's, it's talking about kind of like where the American mindset

[12:29] was at the time.

[12:31] Uh, and the kind of like seesawing back and forth of how people felt in the Reagan era

[12:35] where it was like a pride in America, but also a feeling that America was kind of like

[12:38] falling behind.

[12:39] And there's a lot of that, that I feel like that's the kind of stuff that like, it's such

[12:42] a, it's a good movie.

[12:43] And so there's rich things in it that are, where I don't think Joe Dante was like, and

[12:47] Chris Columbus were like, we got to do something about America in decline, even though it thinks

[12:51] it's doing well, you know?

Dan McCoy

[12:52] Well, it's hard to define exactly what it's saying, which is kind of what's good about

[12:58] it in a certain way.

[12:58] I mean, what it's saying is do not feed them after midnight.

Elliott Kalan

[13:00] Do not get them wet.

[13:01] Like, it's pretty clear what the message of the movie is.

Dan McCoy

[13:03] Because I know that like, I mean, from what I know about Joe Dante's politics, like he

[13:07] is not like a xenophobic guy, but I think that the movie, the movie is like satirizing

[13:12] xenophobia to some degree in a way that can be mistaken for like also being xenophobic

[13:17] itself.

[13:19] Um, once you get into that sort of like deeper, like, well, what does this mean?

[13:22] Level of things.

Elliott Kalan

[13:23] Yeah, that's true.

[13:25] Um, I don't know.

[13:26] So, uh, so Ian, you have all these, you have, so now you have this amazing collection of the

[13:33] gremlins, puppets, and props.

[13:35] And I'm curious about how, so did you have to teach yourself basically the preservation

[13:38] techniques or did you have any past history with, um, with art preservation or archiving

[13:43] or anything like that?

S4

[13:44] No, I work with kind of restoration artists.

[13:47] Um, that's like way above my skillset, um, actually doing the restoration work.

[13:51] Nevermind it.

Elliott Kalan

[13:52] Cause I, I really imagined you in your garage with like, you know, Q-tips and things like

[13:55] that.

[13:56] And that's my nightmare.

S4

[13:57] YouTube tutorials.

[13:58] Yeah.

[13:59] These guys, um, you know, I, I don't want to even like touch them.

[14:03] Like it's crazy cause the restoration guys, they're just like manhandling these things

[14:07] and just, you know, all right, we got to fix the ear and they just shove it back.

[14:10] You know?

[14:11] And meanwhile, I'm just like, I have my gloves on and you know, something needs to get moved.

[14:16] And so, uh, yeah, it's just too, for me, it's just too nerve wracking.

[14:21] Um, I'm only really happy when these things are in their collect cases and nobody can touch

[14:26] them.

[14:26] They're holding together.

[14:27] They're like, we're good.

Dan McCoy

[14:29] Um, this, I'm sure this is the sort of question you've gotten a million times before, but I

[14:34] have to ask like, is there like one or two like things in your collection?

[14:37] Like, this is my prize.

[14:39] This is the best thing.

[14:40] This is my, uh, crown jewel.

S4

[14:43] Um, it's kind of like an accumulation of things.

[14:46] Like, I don't know.

[14:46] I, I see things as sort of like a, um, it's like a set of work.

[14:51] Like, so I'm very like, um, I'm very intentional about what I buy at this point.

[14:55] Um, and so I've kind of like worked out like a lot of the, um, kind of filler pieces, but

[15:01] I would say if I had to pick one, it would probably be the, I have a Mohawk Mogwai that, uh,

[15:06] he looks like he just walked off set.

[15:08] Like the, the detail on him is just so freaking good.

[15:11] And they're just, you know, such intricate hair work and, um, it's just gorgeous, gorgeous

[15:18] piece of art, I think.

Dan McCoy

[15:19] Um, do you guys have more like sort of more general questions before I get into stuff about

[15:25] this cut that, uh, Ian put together or?

Elliott Kalan

[15:28] I mean, what is, what, do you have a security system at, at the, at the location?

S4

[15:32] How do you get around it?

[15:33] Yeah.

[15:33] I kind of have to.

[15:35] They have their own little insurance policy and all that, you know, um, until the day

[15:39] comes where I get a mysterious benefactor that will let me have my own place to, that people

[15:45] can visit.

[15:45] Um, you know, that's kind of where it's at, but, you know, occasionally I do tours for

[15:49] people.

[15:50] Like if they're in town, um, it was funny, uh, two of Hugh Hefner's kids came over like a

[15:56] couple of weeks ago, kind of random, but they're like, we're huge fans.

[16:00] Let's, you know, I want to see this.

[16:02] So, um, yeah, it's kind of fun.

[16:05] You know, it's, it's not meant to, to a collection like this isn't meant to be hoarded away.

[16:11] Um, and you know, I've had people come over, it's, you know, like Gizmo is like my security,

[16:17] you know, creature growing up.

[16:19] And so like seeing a lot of these pieces in person, like it can kind of evoke a, an emotional

[16:24] response out of some people, which is, you know, that's awesome.

[16:27] Like that's what it's all about.

Stuart Wellington

[16:29] I had a similar moment.

[16:31] Um, go, I went to the museum of the moving image, not that long ago, and they had a large

[16:37] Jim Henson, uh, collection on display.

[16:39] And, uh, obviously seeing Big Bird crushed me.

[16:42] Like seeing Big Bird in person is so incredible.

[16:46] And then of course seeing the love of my life, Miss Piggy in wedding dress.

[16:50] It really was like your fantasy came true.

[16:53] Yeah.

S4

[16:53] Yeah.

[16:54] I mean, you can see photos of these things, but it's like really in person where it's,

[16:57] you know, you can look around and see all the detail that was put into it.

[17:01] Like some of the best artists in the world were working on these.

[17:03] Yeah.

[17:03] And, um, you know, these are, you know, for movies you've seen a million times growing up,

[17:08] like actually seeing the characters you loved is really a special thing.

[17:12] I think.

Elliott Kalan

[17:13] There's something so, yeah, there's something incredibly special about it.

[17:16] Being the real, the real stuff too.

[17:18] Like I had the opportunity recently, there was a, a, to see the armature from the inside

[17:24] of the stop motion terror dog from the first Ghostbusters.

[17:28] And it was just amazing to be like, oh, well this, I mean, this looks really cool.

[17:31] It's amazing.

[17:31] But this is literally, this is what the artists working on the film were handling.

[17:35] Like this was the, this is the thing that made it possible.

[17:38] Um, and I always, I still regret there's the, uh, that, uh, that famous gorilla actor,

[17:42] Bob Burns, who passed away not too long ago, that he had the King Kong armature.

[17:47] And apparently if you just got in touch with him and were like, can I come by and see it?

[17:49] He'd be like, yeah, sure.

[17:50] Go ahead.

[17:51] And there's something about like knowing that these things exist as physical objects that

[17:55] are still real.

[17:56] That makes the movie that much more real and makes it much more of a, you know, it, it

[18:00] can't help but bring you into a little bit of connection with the, with the, the thing

[18:04] itself and the people who made it.

[18:05] And, um, and I just imagine it's worth the fear that they will come alive in the middle

[18:10] of the night and kill you and your family, um, you know, to have, to have them around you.

S4

[18:14] These are the actors, you know, uh, if you think about gremlins, like, yeah, you got,

[18:18] you know, Billy and Kate and stuff.

[18:19] But if you think about like, you know, Gizmo is the star of both gremlins films.

[18:23] And so, uh, you know, it's kind of like having an actor.

[18:27] You don't really get that with CG.

[18:28] These are the physical embodiments of, you know, what was on screen.

Stuart Wellington

[18:32] And in some ways it's even better than an actor because meeting the actor, they were a person,

[18:38] a human being with a full life playing a part as opposed to.

[18:41] Problematic views.

[18:42] Potentially.

[18:44] Um, but, uh.

[18:45] Not always.

[18:46] But like, like the prop is so like, it's so specific and it's like, I don't know, it's

[18:52] like super intense.

Elliott Kalan

[18:53] And you don't have to like, when you meet an actor and you're like, oh, I loved you in

[18:56] that movie.

[18:57] They're like, oh yeah, great.

[18:58] Anyway, that was an experience I had.

[18:59] And it's, and it's freighted with what my life was like at the time.

[19:01] And I'm not that person.

[19:02] But yeah, if you would, if you're engaged with the prop, the prop is not like, yeah, I remember

[19:05] back when I did gremlins.

[19:06] Anyway, I'm getting divorced now.

[19:07] It's like, no, it still is.

[19:09] That's its whole existence.

Stuart Wellington

[19:10] You can be a huge freak when you meet them like I did with Miss Piggy.

[19:13] Exactly.

Elliott Kalan

[19:14] Miss Piggy can't be like, oh, actually I'm married to Scott.

[19:17] He's, you know.

[19:18] Scott.

[19:18] What happens to that?

[19:20] I think he's just a character I play, you know.

S4

[19:23] It's the worst impression I've ever done.

[19:25] I've, I've developed a little bit of a relationship with, with Zach Galligan in the last year.

[19:30] And it's funny talking to him on the phone because it's like, you're talking to like freaking

[19:35] Billy, you know, except, you know, he's everyone's raw throwing an expletive in or, you know,

[19:40] but he still enunciates the same way Billy would, you know.

[19:43] And so it kind of just like reboots your brain.

[19:44] You're just like, this is so weird.

Dan McCoy

[19:49] Let's talk about this recent cut that's been in the news because I, I want to start out by

[19:54] saying like, I have to admit, like when I first started seeing these like articles about like

[19:58] nearly three hour cut of gremlins discovered and there had been like a rash of these articles

[20:06] out there from modern entertainment writers who were just like, you know, writing clickbait

[20:13] or whatever, who don't, didn't appear to understand.

[20:15] Like there are these things called assembly cuts where you just like put everything into

[20:21] the movie.

[20:21] And that doesn't mean, that's not the same as a director's cut.

[20:24] That doesn't mean that like for all these other movies, like this is what they wanted.

[20:27] It's like, no, this is like a step along the way to the movie that they wanted.

[20:31] And no one is going to want to watch that as their experience of the movie.

[20:36] Like certainly for the first time.

Elliott Kalan

[20:38] Nobody was, nobody was fighting.

[20:39] Joe Dante was not like, I need a three hour cut.

Dan McCoy

[20:41] He was not fighting with Warner Brothers to get a three hour cut released.

[20:44] Yeah.

[20:44] But then I read about what you did and you know, it is a little different.

[20:49] You put in work to make this.

[20:49] And you should be ashamed of yourself.

[20:52] How dare you, sir.

[20:53] I read about what you did.

[20:54] No, but you like put in work to make this watchable as a thing.

[20:58] Again, a thing that is primarily going to be of interest to Gremlins nuts like us, but

[21:02] like a watchable experience.

[21:06] Can you talk about sort of like what you did with the material?

S4

[21:10] Yeah.

[21:10] So I got two VHS tapes from Joe Dante and he, you know, it was nice enough to send him over.

[21:18] This has been sort of like rumored for decades.

[21:22] And Joe's been kind of like pushing it off.

[21:24] Like, oh, it's gone.

[21:25] Or I think he told me at some point too, like somebody stole it out of his house.

[21:32] But, um, I was talking with Chris Wales and he was saying, oh, like, uh, there's 20, we shot like 20 minutes of, uh, there's 20 minutes of footage of Dory's alone, um, out there somewhere.

[21:45] And so Joe found these tapes and sent them to me.

[21:48] And, um, what I saw in there was just, it was incredible.

[21:52] Like just scenes that nobody has ever seen before.

[21:55] Um, and, uh, like, like scenes that look normal are now like three minutes longer or they're completely alternate takes.

[22:06] Um, so it's like you said, it's not a director's cut.

[22:09] This is meant for Gremlins fans.

[22:11] Um, but what was on the tape though, uh, it was pretty rough.

[22:16] Like it was straight dialogue, basically like no score, no sound effects.

[22:21] And the temp creature sounds could best be equated to like, like a moaning woman.

[22:26] Um, so Dan, this is very close to your fantasy about Gremlin.

[22:32] Yeah.

[22:33] Yeah.

[22:33] I mean, it pulls you right out of the movie.

[22:34] And so like when I saw this stuff, I'm like, people need to watch this.

[22:38] This is incredible.

[22:40] And so it seemed pretty obvious to me like, okay, well we need to turn this into something

[22:44] that can be screened for, for fans.

[22:47] Um, and so that's kind of what got the whole project going.

Dan McCoy

[22:50] Yeah.

[22:50] And, and if I understand it from reading previous things, like you had sort of, uh, what was

[22:57] kind of an assembly cut and then you had also a tape of deleted scenes, some of which

[23:03] hadn't even made it that far.

[23:04] And you also reinterpolated some of that material, uh, in there.

S4

[23:09] It all got put into, um, so there were some extra scenes that were actually really important,

[23:13] I thought on this extra tape.

[23:15] And so they kind of got put into like their correct place in this, in the, um, in my version.

[23:22] And, um, so yeah, it actually works out to be like a really watchable movie.

[23:28] And like the first hour is just getting to know basically everybody in Kingston Falls.

[23:33] And it really, the character development's incredible.

[23:36] Um, you really kind of get to know everybody a whole lot better than in the final film.

[23:41] And not to say it's better than the theatrical, but it's just for a fan, it's really interesting.

Dan McCoy

[23:46] No, it's, uh, so there is like material within this that has been like available before in

[23:53] different like deleted scenes and stuff.

[23:54] But, um, I found one of the things I found really interesting about what you're saying is

[24:01] there's so much Mrs. Deagle stuff in there that like is, uh, you know, in the, in the theatrical

[24:09] cut, you get a lot of, uh, Miss, Miss, Miss Deagle is like, like Miss Gulch, uh, from Wizard of Oz.

[24:17] Like that feels like the maiden touchstone with all the, like, I'm going to get your dog stuff

[24:22] in there.

[24:22] Yeah.

[24:23] But there's so much extra about how she has, she owns like half the town.

[24:30] And wants to like kick people out at Christmas that isn't in the theatrical cut that really

[24:37] made me think like, oh, okay, well, this is a Mr. Potter thing too.

[24:40] Like this is really drawing on It's a Wonderful Life.

[24:43] Like that's one of the main, I don't know, revelations.

[24:47] I thought like, is there stuff in there that you particularly are like, wow, like, like

[24:52] this is new to me.

[24:53] Like this is important, you know?

S4

[24:55] Yeah.

[24:56] Like the whole scene, uh, where, you know, in the theatrical, you see Barney get kind

[25:00] kind of tied up with the Christmas lights outside, you know, and it's sort of just assumed that

[25:05] the Mogwais did this.

[25:07] And I'd seen the storyboards for the first film and they'd shown, they'd storyboarded the

[25:12] heck out of that scene of the, the Mogwais, like coercing Barney down the stairs and outside

[25:18] and tying them up and stuff.

[25:20] And, um, I was like, I can't believe they didn't shoot this.

[25:23] This is like so many pages of storyboards.

[25:26] And so actually seeing it is, is incredible.

[25:29] Um, and it's funny too, because this came out right before Critters and that's how the

[25:35] Mogwais get downstairs.

[25:36] They roll into balls and bounce down the stairs.

[25:39] And so, uh, you, you know, you don't, you don't see that ever like in the, in the final

[25:45] theatrical.

Dan McCoy

[25:47] And you do get a, like a full body shot of Stripe as Mogwais walking around.

[25:54] Yep.

[25:54] You never see like a Mogwai from a distance that way.

[25:57] Just strutting.

[25:59] It's so adorable.

S4

[26:01] I talked with Chris Wales about that shot.

[26:03] And apparently, um, they had this whole rig for like a wide shot of the, the Mogwai

[26:08] walking and, um, they just couldn't really get it all that great.

[26:12] And in the scene, you can see like, there's a line on the floor where, you know, like clearly,

[26:18] you know, what's going on, but it's a really funny scene because like, you can see, uh, uh,

[26:24] Rand Peltzer has like his invention hooked up to the bed or something.

[26:28] They're sleeping and then Stripe the Mogwais walking by their door and, and Rand farts and

[26:34] it startles Stripe.

[26:36] And, uh, it's just like, it's so crazy.

[26:39] There's just so much going on so quickly in that scene.

[26:43] Um, but it's never been seen before.

Dan McCoy

[26:45] Um, also like one thing that particularly stuck out, uh, the, the, the science teacher, I don't

[26:51] remember his name.

[26:53] Mr. Hanson.

[26:54] There's like a whole scene where he's studying the, you know, like the, the, the, the, the

[27:01] Mogwai that he has and says outright like, oh, this water multiplication thing, uh, only

[27:08] works when the environmental temperature is above 40 degrees.

[27:12] Like a line that's clearly in the movie to be like, for people who are like, well, why

[27:17] aren't they multiplying when they're walking through all this snow?

[27:20] And like, right, rightfully it's been cut out.

[27:23] Cause it's like, who cares?

[27:25] Like there's none of this makes any sense, but it was really interesting to me to see

[27:28] that like, they tried to address some of these objections that have bedeviled Gremlins fans

[27:33] for years.

S4

[27:35] Right.

[27:35] What if you go over a time zone or something and you get something stuck in your teeth,

[27:38] you know?

[27:39] Yeah.

[27:39] It's, yeah, there's a lot of things about the movie.

[27:41] It doesn't make any sense.

[27:42] And so at least they tried to address, you know, they're in snow.

[27:45] Why aren't they multiplying?

Elliott Kalan

[27:46] They're like, Glenn, we need you to make up something on set about why, why it doesn't

[27:50] make them multiply.

[27:51] And he's like, oh, I'll think of something.

[27:53] Hold on.

[27:54] It's the temperature, temperature.

[27:55] Yeah.

[27:55] Sure.

[27:55] Yep.

Justin McElroy

[28:01] Hi, I'm Justin McElroy and I host Sawbones with my wife, Sydney.

[28:05] I'm here with MaxFun member of the month, Amanda Adams.

[28:08] Thank you so much for being a supporter and thank you for being our member of the month.

[28:13] Woohoo!

S6

[28:14] You're so welcome.

Justin McElroy

[28:15] How long have you been listening to Sawbones, Amanda?

S6

[28:18] It's been probably a good 10 years.

[28:21] I very much enjoy Dr. Sydney and everything she does.

[28:24] And it's wonderful to be able to support it.

Justin McElroy

[28:26] Let me ask you about the most important moment in your life when you decided to become a MaxFun

[28:30] supporter.

S6

[28:31] Honestly, I am just proud.

[28:32] I can support the people who make me hours and hours of content every week.

[28:37] I feel honored to do it.

Justin McElroy

[28:38] Amanda Adams, thank you so much.

[28:41] I really appreciate your support.

[28:43] Congratulations on your whole month.

[28:45] Thank you so much.

[28:46] It has been a good month already.

Stuart Wellington

[28:48] Support the shows you love, including this one.

[28:51] Check the show notes for a link or go to MaximumFun.org slash join.

S7

[28:58] Hi, everybody.

[28:59] It's Ellen Weatherford.

S8

[29:00] And Christian Weatherford.

S7

[29:01] People say not to judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree.

S8

[29:05] But we can judge a snake by its ability to fly or a spider by its ability to dive.

S7

[29:10] Or a dung beetle by its ability to navigate with the starlight of the Milky Way galaxy.

S8

[29:16] On Just the Zoo of Us, we rate our favorite animals out of 10 in the categories of physical

[29:20] effectiveness, behavioral ingenuity, and of course, aesthetics.

S7

[29:23] Guest experts like biologists, ecologists, musicians, comedians, and more join us to share

[29:29] their unique insights into the animal kingdom.

S8

[29:32] Listen with the whole family on MaximumFun.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

Elliott Kalan

[29:40] We here at the Flophouse have some things we want to tell you about, and I'm going to take

[29:44] a moment to tell you about them.

[29:45] We are, of course, performing live September 18th in Louisville, Kentucky at Whirling Tiger.

[29:51] It's going to be our first live show in a while.

[29:52] We're super excited about it.

[29:54] If you've never been to a Flophouse live show, then you need to know that what you hear when

[29:58] we release the audio is only part of the show.

[30:00] You also get our pre-episode stuff.

[30:03] We each do presentations.

[30:04] We do a lot of messing around on stage.

[30:07] It's really fun.

[30:07] It's really funny.

[30:08] We hope you can join us.

[30:09] We're going to be talking about the movie Glitter, starring Mariah Carey, and we're

[30:12] going to be joined in the show by our own Alex Smith, a.k.a.

[30:17] Howell Dottie, Louisville's own.

[30:18] So we're very excited to be with him on stage and to be doing that show.

[30:22] So that's in Louisville, Kentucky, Whirling Tiger, September 18th.

[30:25] Go to flophousepodcast.com slash events for tickets and more information.

[30:31] If you can't make it to Louisville, well, I'm disappointed.

[30:34] But you can still see us perform because Flop TV is coming back.

[30:39] That's right.

[30:39] Season four of Flop TV starts September 5th at 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific.

[30:44] It's the first Saturday of every month, September through February.

[30:48] And the theme this year is the best of the worst, or rather the worst of the best.

[30:53] It's best picture winners.

[30:54] We're going to look at a bunch of ones that are probably not very good.

[30:57] And one in particular that is a fine movie, but Stuart just doesn't like it.

[31:03] Go to theflophouse.simpleticks.com and you will find a list of all the movies and you'll be able to buy tickets there.

[31:09] You can either buy a ticket for an individual episode or you can buy a season pass, which gets you six episodes for the price of five.

[31:16] And if you can't make it to watch us live on your TV screen.

[31:20] If you can't be there to watch us live on your computer screen when we perform the first Saturday of each month from September through February, you can still watch the recording.

[31:29] Your ticket gets you exclusive access to the recording of the show.

[31:32] Those recordings go up the next day and they will stay up through the end of February so you can watch them at your leisure.

[31:38] That's the Flophouse live in Louisville, Kentucky, September 18th.

[31:42] Go to flophousepodcast.com slash events and Flop TV live on your computer screen first Saturday of the month, September through February.

[31:49] Starting September 5th, go to theflophouse.simpleticks.com.

[31:53] I, of course, have my own regular personal plugs.

[31:56] My book, Joke Farming, How to Write Comedy and Other Nonsense continues to be in stores and existing and I want you to buy it and read it.

[32:03] There's also the audiobook version of it, which I read myself.

[32:06] So enjoy my beautiful voice.

[32:09] My comic book, Barbarian Behind Bars from Mad Cave Studios should be out in its collected edition right now.

[32:15] That is the story of a Conan the Barbarian type barbarian from another dimension who ends up in jail in the United States and he's got to get out.

[32:23] It is a real pulp kind of violent B-movie grindhouse type of story.

[32:29] I hope you enjoy it.

[32:30] And, of course, Harley Quinn from DC Comics.

[32:32] I continue to write that each month.

[32:33] Pick it up for something that is a little bit less violent and a little bit funnier and more heartfelt in many ways.

[32:40] And now, back to the rest of the show.

Dan McCoy

[32:45] I have some more questions.

[32:46] But do you all have questions?

Stuart Wellington

[32:48] I was going to say, was there a specific scene that you remember finding on the tape and being like, oh my god.

[32:54] Like, I can't believe we actually have this now.

S4

[32:58] I actually put together like a little Facebook chat group when I first got the digitized tapes back.

[33:05] And so it was kind of like the biggest Gremlins fans that I know.

[33:09] And so I was kind of like going through the footage and stuff, you know.

[33:13] So we all got to kind of experience it at the same time.

[33:15] And it was definitely the Rand farting scene.

[33:18] I was just like, you're never going to believe this.

[33:19] Because it's so absurd.

[33:23] Because you, like, that's the thing with Gremlins.

Elliott Kalan

[33:25] But that's something dads do when they're sleeping.

[33:26] You know.

S4

[33:27] But if you think about Gremlins 1 and 2.

[33:30] As a dad knows.

[33:31] You never, you're always seeing Gremlins from the waist up for the most part.

[33:35] All the hero puppets are basically like half-body puppets.

[33:39] Somebody has their hand in there and is holding them up.

[33:42] It's so rare that you see a full-body puppet.

[33:44] Because it would have to be like a marionette or some sort of like special rig.

[33:48] And so in this one, there's a few scenes where you see full wide shots.

[33:53] And so like in that Rand scene, it's wild.

[33:57] I mean, we all just kind of like, it blew our mind.

[34:00] And like one of my friends is like, I'm taking the rest of the day off.

[34:02] This is a lot to process.

[34:04] I gotta lay down.

Dan McCoy

[34:06] I gotta examine my life.

[34:08] Yep.

[34:09] Well, we've been sort of taunting our audience with all the stuff that they can't see.

[34:16] Is there any way that in the future it will be seeable?

[34:19] Or are people just going to have to rely on the word picture we've painted for them?

S4

[34:28] Well, since about like April, I've been working with the British Film Institute over in London to try to do like a screening.

[34:36] When word got out that I had this, I got easily like 50 requests to screen this at various theaters or festivals or whatever.

[34:44] And BFI seemed like kind of the best way to do it.

[34:48] And so they were working and using sort of their connections at Warner Brothers to try to get this happening and do it in like a legit way.

[34:55] Because I've been saying from the start that like, I don't own this.

[34:59] I can't just freely distribute it or show it or anything.

[35:03] And so they finally got through to Warner the other day by means of Warner Legal.

[35:12] And so I'm having to relinquish basically everything that I have to them, which is a whole joy.

[35:21] But, you know, I'm still trying to get like screenings happening.

[35:25] They seem like, you know, if I was playing along with them that we could get, you know, we could work out some sort of way to potentially make that a thing.

[35:34] So that ultimately is the goal.

[35:36] Like I'm not trying to make money from this.

[35:37] I'm trying to just get this out to the fans so, you know, they can see it.

Dan McCoy

[35:41] I hope that that is, you know, like I have not been like bragging around like, oh, you know, we're talking to this guy.

[35:52] But like I have gotten questions from my few like very close Gremlins fans that I've like mentioned like, oh, you know, we're going to do this episode.

[36:01] Like they're all like, but how do I see this cut?

[36:05] And I'm like, I don't think there's a way right now.

S4

[36:08] I'm sorry.

[36:08] I'll let you know if I hear anything.

[36:10] They have this idea that I'm trying to like keep it away from them.

[36:13] I'm like, no, I'm just trying to not get sued.

[36:15] You know, that's really what it comes down to.

[36:17] You know, I want to share this with fans.

[36:19] That's really the end goal.

[36:20] That's always been the end goal.

[36:22] And so if Warner Brothers wants to play along, fantastic.

[36:26] And I've been trying to, you know, give them the merits of like, hey, Gremlins 3 comes out.

[36:30] You're inevitably going to make a three disc set.

[36:32] Why not throw it on there?

[36:33] You know, how do you get people to buy Gremlins for the nth time?

[36:36] Well, include the rough cut.

[36:38] Done.

Elliott Kalan

[36:40] The, I think there's also such a like, clearly so much work goes into making, as you've said, something like that fully watchable like it's a movie.

[36:50] Like you're saying, adding the score, adding the sound effects, like putting the scenes together.

[36:55] And it's the kind of thing that only happens because someone loves the material and wants to, wants to make that material viewable.

[37:03] And so clearly like this, this is obviously such a passion project.

[37:06] And like you're saying, you're like, I'm not trying to make money off this.

[37:09] If there was a way to make a lot of money off of it, Warner Brothers would have done it already.

[37:13] And so I think, I don't know.

Dan McCoy

[37:15] I don't seem to like to release movies.

[37:17] No, they would have done it and then buried it so that they could get the tax write-off.

Elliott Kalan

[37:21] Yeah.

[37:21] But I think the, but I think it's, it's a, I mean, I applaud you for, for the, for the labor of love that it is to, to take those elements and make them into a viewable thing.

[37:30] So that people can have this larger view of something that they love and something that meant so much to all of it.

[37:35] Like I think about, Gremlins is one of those things where like, if you ask me, you're like, how do you feel about Gremlins?

[37:41] I'd be like, oh yeah, I love Gremlins.

[37:42] And then the more I think about it, the more I'm like, well, yeah.

[37:44] And it was like the movie I watched the most.

[37:46] And I went as Gizmo for Halloween because my mom made me a Gizmo costume for like three straight years.

[37:51] And I think of it all the time and seeing Gremlins 2 was like a major piece of my like development as a creative person.

[37:57] And it's like, oh yeah, well this is, and so it's a, so.

Dan McCoy

[38:00] Elliot, I just want to say like, I had a very similar experience like in the run up to doing the show where I'm like, well, you know, like neither of the Gremlins movies, like I don't, I don't have them in my like top four on Letterboxd or whatever.

[38:12] But then I was like thinking about like, they're the thing that I certainly have the most memorabilia of around my apartment.

[38:20] I'm like, are these my favorite movies?

Elliott Kalan

[38:23] And even I, seeing all that, it's all to build up.

[38:25] Like I, it turns out I have such a, it's such a deep part of me.

[38:28] But even I would not have the patience or the, or the, or the, or the, the, so much love to like really get in there and, and unearth the things that are available of it and bring these new aspects to light.

[38:41] So I really applaud you for, for doing it.

[38:43] And I'm so thankful that, that you're engaged in this sacred work.

[38:46] And I hope Warner Brothers can get their, get their act together, you know, so that this is something that, that gets the, the wider view that it deserves, you know?

S4

[38:55] Yeah, it's kind of the search is really, honestly, the, the best part of all this is just like, it's amazing that, you know, 40 something years later, there's still things to be unearthed.

[39:04] And the fact that Joe Dante is kind of playing along with all this and playing along with my weirdness.

[39:10] And I think, I don't think he quite knew what he was getting into when he passed those tapes over, but.

Elliott Kalan

[39:18] He was like, he was like, this will open up a little bit of space in my closet.

[39:22] I think that's what he was thinking.

[39:23] Yeah.

S4

[39:23] But it was like, you know, it was kind of the right person for it.

[39:26] Cause you know, anyone else could have just been like watched it and then threw it in the closet and that was it.

[39:32] And so it was kind of like, you know, getting to know the film about as well as anyone can know it, you know, when you're in there and having to retime the score because, you know, the scene is three minutes longer.

[39:45] And, or, you know, I have a new appreciation for Howie Mandel doing Gizmo.

[39:51] Cause you know, thankfully now you can isolate, you know, voice.

[39:56] And so I was able to isolate all the Mogwai sounds and creature sounds and everything.

[40:00] And like just hearing isolated Gizmo is like, it was freaking awesome.

[40:05] It was really good.

[40:07] Like, you know, it's sort of background noise a lot, you know, for the movie, like it's, it's there, you know, but when you hear it just isolated, you're like, wow, this is, he's like really,

[40:15] riffing off of what Billy's saying or Pete or whatever.

[40:18] Like it's really good.

Elliott Kalan

[40:20] So he's, I mean, it's the, it's, it's, I mean, it, it doesn't surprise me that he, they probably were like, okay, you're the character.

[40:25] Like, what is he, what is he doing?

[40:26] We need stuff.

[40:26] And it's the opposite of the, when they isolate David Lee Roth's voice tracks and, and it just sounds like a, like a, like a guy's going.

[40:35] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[40:36] So the thing is that cocaine makes you crazy.

Stuart Wellington

[40:40] It's true.

[40:40] I guess it's true.

[40:41] The, uh, yeah.

[40:42] I mean, I can't stress enough.

[40:43] I mean, I think we all, uh, had, it was a foundational memory for all of us to go through DVDs and go through deleted scenes.

[40:52] And I feel like I can also speak for all of us in that most of those deleted scenes were kind of a disappointment because they are separated from the film.

[40:59] And also they often lack some of those additional polishes, whether it's score, sound effects, et cetera.

[41:06] And it's like the fact that you were able to do this and it makes it like a very, I mean, it's a very watchable cut of the movie.

[41:15] It's obviously a little bit long and not me and not the director's vision, but like it were, it works as a movie and that's incredible.

S4

[41:23] Um, it's, um, it's, it's a wild, it's been a wild ride.

[41:26] Um, and I'm glad it kind of worked out in the end.

[41:29] And, um, and Joe has been very supportive.

[41:31] Uh, Zach's been supportive.

[41:33] Zach said, uh, if, if a lot of these extra scenes were in there,

[41:36] maybe his career would go, uh, a different track.

[41:40] Which I thought was pretty funny.

[41:42] Um, but yeah, no, it's been, it's been a lot of fun.

[41:45] It's a cool ride.

Dan McCoy

[41:47] Uh, I essentially, I mean, you guys are obviously free to like toss in any extra stuff you have.

[41:53] I essentially just had one last written question, uh, that I had, which was like,

[41:59] has, uh, this experience, uh, encouraged you?

[42:03] Are you like, has it inspired you?

[42:05] Or, or perhaps D inspired you to, uh, toward any, like other big gremlins project in the future?

[42:13] Uh, Dan is like Loki asking, when's the five hour gremlins two cut?

Stuart Wellington

[42:18] Yeah.

S4

[42:19] I've been asking Joe about that for a while now.

[42:21] And, uh, he's, he's doing his normal kind of dismissive, uh, there's nothing in there.

[42:26] I was like, look at the trading cards.

[42:28] There's more stuff.

Elliott Kalan

[42:30] My, my, my, my one, my one interaction with Joe Dante, he seemed like somebody who was not eager to like dig into old stuff.

[42:36] Was kind of like, eh, you know, very, yeah, very dismissive of, of past work.

[42:40] He's been surprisingly supportive.

S4

[42:42] And, uh, you know, as a former editor, like getting editorial notes from Joe is like, it was kind of awesome.

[42:48] Um, you know, cause originally in the, in the assembly, they, they had cut out the Kate Santa speech.

[42:55] And I thought it was really funny.

[42:58] Like on the tape, it just says scene missing.

[43:00] And I thought it was kind of funny.

[43:03] You know, the one.

[43:05] Right.

[43:05] Yeah.

[43:06] I mean, it's kind of a quick blip, but you know, nevertheless.

[43:08] And then, uh, it was kind of this moment in time where, uh, Joe was sort of battling Warner and, uh, essentially he wanted the more violent Mr. Hanson death, you know, the teacher.

[43:21] And, uh, the compromise was, um, removing the Santa speech, but Joe was like, no Santa speech stays.

[43:29] And so that's why we got the kind of like less violent, uh, you know, the one needle instead of the, you know, 20 needles in the face.

Elliott Kalan

[43:37] Instead of a gremlin digging his eyeballs out of his sockets.

[43:40] Right.

[43:40] Yeah.

S4

[43:41] So, um, no, but Joe's been like super supportive, um, about as much as I could imagine.

[43:47] And, um, it's been a lot of fun just, you know, finding a lot of his old treasures and, and working on projects and doing kind of articles and stuff about it.

[43:56] Cause it just, I don't know.

[43:57] I think there's at a certain point with the puppets, there's only so much you can do.

[44:01] Um, unless you're, you know, a billionaire and just have endless money and just buy everything.

[44:07] Um, but, uh, like Daniel Clamp.

[44:11] Yeah.

[44:11] Like Daniel Clamp.

[44:12] Like Daniel Clamp.

[44:13] But yeah, so just doing these articles and doing the rough cut to me is actually kind of a bit more fulfilling in the end.

[44:19] So.

S4

[44:19] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[44:19] It shows you, it shows you, I think what is so, one of the things that makes Gremlins so great, in addition to the fact that it looks amazing, the Gremlins characters are such, and Gizmo are such fully realized living creatures.

[44:31] Is that trade-off you're talking about where it's like, you can either have the more violent, uh, death or you can have the Santa Claus speech, the, the Phoebe Kay speech, that it's like, oh, well then I want the Santa Claus speech.

[44:41] Like the character, the human characters feel really richly observed too.

[44:45] And that's exciting about the longer cut.

[44:46] Like you're saying that you get to see these characters so much more developed.

[44:50] And that's, it's like, um, even though the scenes were, were either cut or, or, um, or cut down, it's like, uh, you know, a rich reduced sauce, you know, like all, you know,

[45:01] it's, it's, it's got, it's thicker, but it's got more in there.

[45:04] And it just shows you what, what, what, uh, one of the things that makes it such a great movie is that this town, when it's being attacked by the monsters, doesn't feel like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[45:13] People, whatever, get to the monsters, get to the monsters, you know, and I, that's so, it feels like so much the right choice to include that speech, which is so memorable over another, another kill scene, basically.

Dan McCoy

[45:22] Well, also, I mean, was it Spielberg as producer or Dante?

[45:26] Like someone said, like, that's the movie in miniature.

[45:28] Like, it's like, it's funny.

[45:30] And that's what the producers were like, yeah, that's why we don't like it.

[45:34] Upsetting.

[45:35] Like, you know, like some of the more violent stuff that is in this longer cut, like there's stuff in the Peltzer's kitchen that's like grosser.

[45:44] And, uh, I mean, I think that like, including the Santa speech and not the meaner death is the right call because like, you know, I'm a horror fan.

[45:53] I like seeing the meaner stuff, but it is such a delicate tone that is struck.

[45:59] And I think that the, like, the meaner version of Gremlins doesn't quite work as well.

[46:04] Like we got the right mix in the theatrical cut.

Elliott Kalan

[46:07] It's certainly, it's certainly harder to laugh at it when it's that much, when it gets too mean, for sure.

[46:14] I know that like in the, was it in the original script that Chris Columbus wrote, like Billy's mom dies.

[46:20] Like her, like her, he comes home and her like head rolls down the stairs.

[46:23] And it's like, yeah, it'd be hard to, it'd be hard to laugh too much after that.

S4

[46:28] She's such a nice lady, you know.

[46:30] What works so well with this is, you know, I mean, the problem with so many modern movies is like, do you actually care about any of these characters?

[46:36] Yeah.

[46:36] And I feel like in Gremlins, like you care about like a lot of these people.

[46:40] Like it's, it's, I don't know.

[46:43] I mean, how many people in this do you actually like really get to know?

[46:45] It's, it's pretty wild.

Elliott Kalan

[46:47] I feel like when I watch it, I am as invested in Phoebe Cates' life basically in it.

[46:52] Like that, that she is, that she seems to have no real future at the moment.

[46:56] And you hope that she's going to get out and have one.

[46:59] As much, as invested in that as in, can they keep this Mogwai dry, you know.

Dan McCoy

[47:05] And you love the Pelsters, even though arguably they have destroyed this town through their pollution.

Elliott Kalan

[47:13] Yeah, that's true.

[47:14] Well, there's such a, there's a, there's a, and this is the kind of thing that I feel like you don't, you would, now if you, if they made this movie now, Billy's dad would have these inventions and they never quite work or either, or they're rich.

[47:26] They're a rich family that has great inventions.

[47:28] And then at the end, the inventions would save the day or something.

[47:31] Like all the inventions they set up, it'd be like, now the one that cracks the eggs open, we can use it to kill the Gremlins this way.

[47:36] And now the bathroom buddy, oh, we're going to use that to like, to do this.

[47:39] And the fact that they do not really play a part at all, it's just character texture.

[47:43] It's just, this guy is a dreamer.

[47:44] That was the original intention though.

[47:46] Was it?

[47:46] I imagine, yeah.

S4

[47:47] So I have a copy of the, the, like the actual shooting script.

[47:54] And they were, they actually came up with the chainsaw scene at the end, like on the fly.

[47:59] That was like an homage to like Texas Chainsaw.

[48:03] And originally, Rand was going to come in and spray Stripe with the bathroom buddy.

Elliott Kalan

[48:08] Oh, that would have, that would have.

[48:10] It's good they didn't.

[48:11] It would have sucked.

[48:12] Yeah.

[48:12] It was so bad.

[48:13] And I love the, because one of the things that's so great about that scene too, is it's like, it really feels like they're just pulling the stuff from the sporting goods store.

[48:19] Like they're just handling what's around them.

[48:20] And the only question I've had ever since I was a kid was, why do they have such a small chainsaw?

[48:25] Like why do they, why are they selling a chainsaw that is small enough for Stripe to use?

[48:29] But is that a child's chainsaw?

[48:31] Like what's going on?

S4

[48:32] I put together a whole like article on the chainsaw scene and I talked to Zach about it specifically.

[48:37] I was like, you know, how did you feel like having this bat, like between you and an actual chainsaw?

[48:44] It's like, they would never do that nowadays.

[48:46] Like there's no way they would, it's their lead actor.

[48:48] Like even if it didn't cut through the bat, it could have easily got a freaking wood stuck in his eye or something.

Elliott Kalan

[48:54] Well, that's the most, that's one of the reasons it, that's one, when I was a kid, that was one of the most terrifying scenes to me because he has his bloody wounds on his, you know, scalper,

[49:01] on his face, and the wood chips are just flying at him.

[49:04] And I would just as a kid imagine like, oh, you're getting, your cuts are getting full of wood chips.

[49:07] Like this is terrible.

[49:08] Like it's such a, it's so much better than, than his dad coming in and going, we set this up in act one.

[49:13] Now we're going to use it in act three, you know, which is, I have to imagine Spielberg was like, you got to use all that stuff later on in the movie.

Dan McCoy

[49:18] Well, I love that the only payoff is like the old man comes in at the end and he's like, oh, smokeless ashtray.

[49:24] Yes, the man tried to sell me another like making fun of this guy from being a shitty inventor.

S4

[49:31] It's funny because I've seen this movie so many freaking times now, just editing each scene and going to such depth.

[49:38] And the only scene that I feel like pulls you out of it now is that last part.

[49:43] Cause it's sort of like when he, when he pulls out the smokeless ashtray at the very end, you're like, no, we're going outside and this is the end.

[49:50] And he's walking.

[49:51] I feel like the ashtray just like kills the momentum.

Elliott Kalan

[49:55] I had a thing, I had a thing like that with something I'm working on now where I was writing a script and they were like, we need this character to come in at the end and be part of the climax.

[50:02] And I was like, oh, really?

[50:04] It really just restarts the, like, it feels like the, like the, like the, the problem is over.

[50:08] And then a guy comes in and has to restart.

[50:10] And I just cut that out and was like, I hope that, I hope the executives don't notice.

[50:14] And they didn't.

[50:14] And I was like, oh, if they didn't notice, it really doesn't need to be in there.

[50:17] Yeah.

[50:18] Yeah.

[50:19] But the, it's, it's a, I don't know.

[50:21] My, my, my, my, my admiration for what you're doing with the groundless material is only tempered by my envy.

[50:29] And my wish that I had thought of it first and had the, had the, had the, had the skills for it, but I don't.

[50:35] I don't, is there anything I feel like that was, that really surprised you about your relationship to the material?

[50:44] As you were, as you were working on that rough cut or as you're kind of caring for the, the props?

[50:49] Is there anything that like, you know, that you kind of didn't think about in terms of how you relate to the, to the movies that you've come to understand or anything like that?

[50:59] Not to get too personal.

[50:59] If you're like, if you're like, yeah, well, it really helped me come to terms with this, this tragedy.

[51:03] I'd be like, that's too much.

[51:05] Don't tell them.

S4

[51:06] I've always been a Gremlins 2 fan.

[51:08] That's always been my favorite movie.

[51:10] And after doing this rough cut project, I don't know, I've kind of come around to the first one.

[51:15] I think that's kind of my biggest takeaway because it's sort of like a running joke with my friends is like, you know, oh, you're doing all this Gremlins 1 stuff now.

[51:22] And, you know, you watch, that's going to be your favorite.

[51:25] And I don't know, like I have a much deeper relationship now with the first movie than I think I ever did.

[51:32] Gremlins 2, I think, is like the greatest sequel of all time.

Elliott Kalan

[51:35] It's so amazing.

[51:37] It's incredible.

[51:37] I've talked about it on the podcast before about when I saw that in the theaters as a kid, I was like, I can't, I don't know, you could do this in a movie.

[51:44] It felt like it just opened my head up and threw a bomb in there.

[51:46] Changed the game, you know.

[51:47] Changed it.

Dan McCoy

[51:48] Perfect to me in different ways.

[51:50] Like the first one is like sort of the peak of like Amblin style.

[51:55] Like, you know, this is going to have like some thrills and chills.

[52:00] Nothing too scary.

[52:01] But it's just going to be like a fun like blockbuster filmmaking.

[52:06] And it's going to have jokes.

[52:07] And it's going to be a little weird.

[52:08] But it's, it's.

[52:10] And then the second one is like, let's just rip all that up.

[52:14] Let's go mad.

Elliott Kalan

[52:15] I was just watching.

[52:16] So my, my younger son, we watched Gremlins on Halloween last year.

[52:20] He's, he's eight now, but he was seven at the time.

[52:22] And then he, and we watched Gremlins 2 like three days later.

[52:25] And he was so excited by Gremlins 2 that he was spinning in place.

[52:28] Like he could not stop it through the body.

[52:30] And we just rewatched it the other day.

[52:32] We watched Gremlins 2.

[52:33] And he goes, the only part I don't like is when they kill the guy who's talking about the first Gremlins movie.

[52:38] And I'm like, you're objectively wrong.

[52:39] You're objectively wrong, son.

[52:41] Like that's one of the most brilliant moments in any movie ever.

[52:44] When Leonard Maltin's giving a bad review to the first movie, his actual bad review to the first movie.

[52:48] And they kill him for it.

S4

[52:50] Yeah, it's crazy.

[52:52] Like my, I have a little five-year-old.

[52:54] And he, when he first saw Gremlins 2, he really liked Daffy a lot.

[52:59] And I was like, look, he's right there.

[53:00] Because I have a bunch of puppets up in my, like, my movie room.

[53:03] And I have the close-up Daffy, the one where he's eating the, you know, chicken wings and corn and all that.

[53:10] And so I'm like, look, that's the puppet right there.

[53:12] And he's like, sure, dad, whatever.

[53:14] All right.

Dan McCoy

[53:20] Just goes to show you that children are never impressed by their parents.

[53:24] No matter what.

Elliott Kalan

[53:25] But if he went to a friend's house and they had it, he'd be like, can you believe they have this, dad?

[53:29] But it has your stink on it.

[53:30] So yeah, he's not impressed.

S4

[53:32] My older kid is 14.

[53:35] And whenever friends come over, the first place they go is they hightail it to my office.

[53:40] They're like, let's look at the Gremlins.

[53:42] They don't go upstairs and hide in the room.

[53:44] They're like, you know, let's go check out all the Gremlins first.

[53:46] All right.

Stuart Wellington

[53:46] And first you're like, okay, we need to decontaminate you guys before you go in.

[53:52] No touching nothing.

Dan McCoy

[53:54] And don't get them wet.

S4

[53:57] My kids think that everyone's parents have kind of weird collections like this.

[54:01] I'm like, eh, maybe.

Stuart Wellington

[54:04] They go to their friend's house.

[54:05] So what kind of puppets does your dad collect?

[54:07] Yeah.

[54:08] Dan has a nice collection.

[54:10] I could show you.

[54:11] They're in his bedroom.

[54:12] They're stuffed under the bed.

[54:15] Variety of body parts.

[54:17] And textures.

[54:19] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[54:20] Okay.

[54:21] And those of you are made to get wet.

[54:26] I can't think of a...

[54:28] I don't know how we've somehow gotten back so many times to the Dan is a perv well in this episode about Gremlins

[54:34] and the Gremlins Museum.

[54:35] But all right.

[54:35] Okay.

[54:36] Because I think at heart, we're kind of like Gremlins.

[54:39] I guess so.

[54:40] Chaos agents.

[54:42] It shows you what the...

[54:43] I mean, my kids, they love the Minions characters, right?

[54:47] And I feel like the Minions, they're a softer version,

[54:49] but they're the closest thing that Kids Entertainment has now to the Gremlins,

[54:53] where it's just like, yeah, they go out and they do all the crazy stuff kids wish they could do.

[54:57] Like, they go out and they break stuff.

[55:00] They kill people.

[55:00] And they accidentally kill people.

Dan McCoy

[55:02] Like, I was...

[55:03] You know, I hadn't seen any of these things,

[55:06] but Minions and Monsters had gotten such, like, surprisingly good reviews.

[55:11] It's the best of the Minions movies.

[55:12] I checked it out.

[55:13] Well, Cthulhu's in it, right?

Elliott Kalan

[55:14] Well, a Cthulhu-like character, isn't it?

Dan McCoy

[55:17] Yeah.

[55:17] It's very enjoyable, but I was sort of, like, surprised in a delighted way by, like, all the people they accidentally kill in the course of that movie.

Elliott Kalan

[55:26] And the only thing they don't do is drink and smoke.

[55:28] And, like, that's because, you know, we live in more prudish times in some ways.

[55:31] In more prudish, much more racist times, which is an interesting combination.

[55:35] But...

Stuart Wellington

[55:36] The Minions kind of strike me as, like, just blue-collar dudes with their little overalls.

[55:39] They should be drinking and smoking a lot.

Elliott Kalan

[55:41] They should be drinking and smoking a lot.

[55:42] That's true.

[55:44] But it's...

[55:44] The thing that...

[55:46] The most exciting thing to me, I have to admit, about the rough cut is the longer stuff at the bar.

[55:52] Because, like, the...

[55:53] After I watched Gremlins with my younger son, he goes, you know what the best part is?

[55:58] And I'm like, when they're at the bar?

[55:59] And he goes, yeah.

[56:00] And, like, the...

[56:01] I could watch...

[56:02] That was my...

[56:03] As a child, that was just my dream.

[56:04] Like, can I go and hang out with the Gremlins at that bar and just watch them being gross and, like, causing trouble?

[56:10] And, I don't know.

[56:10] Why I open the bar?

Dan McCoy

[56:11] That's the most Gremlins 2 part of the movie, too.

[56:13] Because it's, like, up until that point, it's sort of, like, a normal monster movie.

[56:18] They're little monsters.

Elliott Kalan

[56:19] But there it's, like, oh, yeah, they're putting on hats.

[56:21] Yeah.

[56:22] Like, they're role-playing as different characters.

S4

[56:24] That's where they got a lot of the Gremlins 2 material, where, like, they figured out that, like,

[56:29] gremlins dressing up as humans, like, really worked.

[56:31] So, like, we need more of that.

Elliott Kalan

[56:35] I mean, it's your first appearance of a female-coded gremlin.

[56:38] Because there's that one wearing the, like, fur stole and the makeup and everything.

[56:42] And it's to say, yeah, it's amazing.

[56:45] It must have felt like such an exciting discovery to be like, if we put hats and clothes on these gremlins and they do human stuff, it takes it to another level.

[56:55] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[56:55] It's way funnier.

[56:57] Yeah.

[56:59] Yeah, it's good stuff.

[57:01] Well, as promised, I said we'd only keep you for around 45 minutes to an hour.

[57:08] And we're about halfway in between those two marks.

[57:11] So, I feel like we should wrap up.

[57:13] We should say thank you for coming on.

[57:15] Elliot, I see that you're just raring to say one last thing about the gremlins.

Elliott Kalan

[57:21] No, no.

[57:21] What I'm raring to do is my doorbell just rang.

[57:23] So, this is an excellent time for us to end the episode.

[57:25] Excellent time to wrap up.

[57:25] So, I can answer it.

Dan McCoy

[57:26] Yeah.

[57:27] Thank you so much for coming on and talking to us about all this.

[57:32] Obviously, we're cut from the same cloth.

[57:35] So, it was a treat.

Elliott Kalan

[57:36] The same deteriorating polyurethane foam cloth.

Dan McCoy

[57:39] Is there anything you want to plug before we say goodbye?

S4

[57:43] Just look up Gremlins Museum online.

[57:45] And if you want to go on the deepest dive possible, Gremlins material.

[57:50] You can read all about the puppets and various articles about very, very specific things.

[57:55] And, you know, hopefully people that share the love of Gremlins can enjoy it too.

Dan McCoy

[58:01] Yeah.

[58:02] I just started following Gremlins Museum on Instagram.

[58:04] I recommend that highly.

[58:06] Yeah.

[58:07] Thank you to Ian Grant for being here.

[58:09] This has been The Flophouse.

[58:10] We're part of the MaxFun Network.

[58:12] Go to MaximumFun.org.

[58:13] Check out the other great shows.

[58:15] Check out Howl Doughty online.

[58:19] Alex Smith, that's his real name.

[58:21] But he does a bunch of stuff by the name of Howl Doughty.

[58:24] It's all worth checking out.

[58:26] But for The Flophouse, I've been Dan McCoy.

Elliott Kalan

[58:29] I'm Stuart Wellington.

[58:30] I'm Ellie Kalin.

[58:31] And we've been joined by...

[58:33] Ian Grant.

[58:34] Bye.

[58:37] We've been a wipeout.

[58:38] That wasn't particularly Gremlin.

[58:40] I was trying to go for a Gremlins thing, but it didn't work.

[58:48] Maximum Fun.

Dan McCoy

[58:49] A worker-owned network.

[58:50] Of artist-owned shows.

[58:52] Supported.

[58:53] Directly.

[58:54] By you.

FH Mini 157 - Gremlins: The Rough Cut, with Ian Grant

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