Ep. #359 - Dear Evan Hansen, with Sharlene Wellington

Elliott Kalan

[0:00] On this episode, we discuss Dear Evan Hansen.

[0:03] A warning to listeners, on today's episode, we will be touching on some very sensitive topics,

[0:07] such as how Dear Evan Hansen is very bad.

[0:30] Hey, everyone, and welcome to the Flophouse. I'm Dan McCoy.

Stuart Wellington

[0:40] Oh, hey there, Dan McCoy. It's me, Stuart Wellington.

[0:43] Dear Dan and Stuart, it's me, your friend, Elliot.

[0:45] He's already doing bits.

[0:46] Elliot Kalin, that is. And who's joining us today?

[0:49] And we have a special guest today. That's right. We have bar owner, podcaster, queen of Brooklyn.

[0:58] That's right. Charlene Wellington, my wife.

[1:01] Hi, everybody. Should I do my disclaimer now?

[1:04] Charlene, I didn't realize the previous queen had died.

[1:07] Yeah, I had no idea I was a queen.

[1:09] The queen of Kings County, Charlene Wellington.

S3

[1:12] I'm the queen of kings. It's a spin-off series.

[1:16] Oh, man.

Stuart Wellington

[1:20] More Scientology, though, right?

Elliott Kalan

[1:22] Yeah.

[1:23] Man.

[1:24] Yeah, if there was a king of queens, why not a queen of kings?

[1:27] Yeah, I know. It seems odd that they haven't.

[1:30] It's wild.

[1:30] When people meet Jesus, they go, is there a queen of kings? Because he's a cat.

[1:35] Yeah.

[1:37] He's got a good job.

[1:39] He's got a solid job. Holes in his hands. His dad is rich.

[1:43] And he's got a beard, right?

[1:45] He's got that hot beard and that long hair. Come on, you know?

[1:49] Yeah.

[1:49] He can take a whipping. You know that. He's a tough dude, but he's not afraid to be sensitive.

[1:54] He wears his heart on his sleeve, literally, sometimes.

[1:57] Often statues show him uncomfortably hot.

[1:59] Yeah. Yeah. He's uncomfortably hot and also uncomfortable because he's crucified at the time.

[2:03] Anyway, so I guess he's on Bumble or something. That's Jesus for your dating needs.

Stuart Wellington

[2:10] Now what?

[2:10] So, Shirley, you were super excited. We picked – yeah, Elliot's going to riff on Jesus a little bit more later.

[2:17] We'll save that. We'll table that.

[2:19] So, we picked this movie because it has been a – let's say it has been kind of vilified by critics.

[2:27] And also, you have a personal connection to this movie. Explain.

S3

[2:31] So, we saw it on Broadway.

[2:35] Truth.

[2:36] We hadn't heard that much about it, but I kind of had the idea that it was going to be about a gay teenager.

[2:47] Uh-huh.

[2:49] And –

Stuart Wellington

[2:51] Was that just from the ads that were on New York One?

S3

[2:54] Yeah.

[2:54] That played a lot, yeah.

[2:55] Maybe from the ads on New York One.

[2:56] And I guess because most of my friends that are very – that talk to me about Broadway shows are gay.

[3:03] Oh, okay.

[3:04] I feel like you've got a biased sample set there.

[3:06] You're making assumptions based on a –

[3:07] Yes.

[3:08] Yes, I did.

[3:10] And then we saw it and, I mean, am I allowed to reveal how I felt about the play before we talk about the movie?

[3:17] Yeah, because who knows?

[3:18] Who knows?

[3:18] Maybe the movie fixed whatever problems you had with the play.

[3:21] I did not like it and I felt like I was the first person to express that.

[3:28] Like I was being gaslit by this show.

[3:31] And everybody who had seen it, who I had spoken to about it was so excited and I was like – it was fine.

Stuart Wellington

[3:39] Well, what had happened was Ben Platt and his powerful producer father had been personally going around to each person who was about to say bad things about it.

[3:47] They were like, no, no, no.

S3

[3:48] But they didn't call me at all.

Stuart Wellington

[3:50] I know.

[3:50] I didn't get any memo.

S3

[3:52] Maybe it went to my spam folder.

[3:53] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[3:54] I had a similar – I also kind of just, I think, assumed this was a coming out tale.

[3:59] I don't know why.

[4:00] Yeah.

[4:00] Just because it was like a very – like a heartfelt like the title or something about it.

[4:05] I don't know.

[4:06] And then I think it was a bit of a meme.

Elliott Kalan

[4:07] You thought it was referring to my dear Evan Hansen.

[4:10] Like, oh, it's my dear Evan Hansen.

[4:11] Yeah, maybe.

Dan McCoy

[4:12] Like, it was a bit of a meme when the movie trailer came out of people like Googling the plot of dear Evan Hansen and discovering it for the first time.

[4:21] And I went through that.

[4:24] I hadn't seen the play but like I saw the trailer and I was like, what?

[4:29] That's what this play is about?

[4:30] I read the plot description and I was gobsmacked by what happens and having not seen it yet.

S3

[4:38] And yet we still watched the film.

[4:40] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[4:41] I want to say this is one of the rare occasions where Stuart gets to be the Flophouse co-host who talks about seeing a star of a movie on Broadway.

[4:49] Because I did not see this show on Broadway.

[4:51] I refused multiple invitations to buy tickets to it because I was – I wasn't sure what it was about.

[4:58] But just off the title and the poster, I was like, this is probably about like teen drama.

[5:02] Like, I don't need to see this.

[5:04] The same way that –

[5:04] Yeah, I mean, you've been an old man for a long time.

[5:08] Yeah, but every – the same way that every year there's a play where people are like, you've got to see it.

[5:12] And I'm like, is it about a family that gets together and secrets come out?

[5:15] Well, yes.

[5:16] Well, then I don't need to see it.

[5:17] I've seen that play 30 times before.

[5:20] I don't need to see it again.

[5:21] I should follow that lead.

[5:22] But this time it's in Osage County.

[5:24] That's okay.

[5:24] I don't need to see it in that one.

[5:26] But this time they're the humans.

[5:27] Yeah, it's okay.

[5:28] I don't need to see it.

[5:29] Sure.

[5:29] So, Charlene, you're saying you did not like the play.

[5:31] So, what was it about the play that you didn't like?

S3

[5:34] I mean, I'll spoil the plot if I tell you that.

Stuart Wellington

[5:37] Oh, should we talk about the story?

[5:39] We shouldn't be plot stuff.

[5:41] And it didn't change – like this movie didn't change or improve on your opinion, right?

Elliott Kalan

[5:45] We'll have to wait to see.

[5:48] But what about the part when Alfred Molina showed up as Doc Ock?

[5:51] That was exciting, right?

[5:53] If I were originally –

[5:54] That was the best part.

[5:55] When all the other Evan Hansen showed up.

[5:59] Oh, my God.

[6:01] That's some sicko shit there right there, man.

Dan McCoy

[6:04] Yeah.

[6:05] I do actually kind of want to offer the more sincere version of the joke introduction.

[6:12] Just, you know, content warning that by its nature, the plot of this show is about suicide and also mental illness in a way that –

[6:23] And I just want to make it clear that we will be ragging on this film.

[6:26] We will be laughing about it.

[6:28] But that's because the movie presents it in such a schmaltzy, bad way.

[6:36] Not because we are trying to, like, make light of actual serious things.

Elliott Kalan

[6:41] I think that was one of the things that I think – I don't know if it struck you guys the same way, but it struck me – really was hard.

[6:48] I was like, the things that this character is ostensibly supposed to be going through, like, I went through those types of feelings when I was a teen.

[6:56] Like, I didn't –

[6:57] Yes.

Elliott Kalan

[6:57] You know, to get real for a moment, like, I was depressed.

[7:00] I didn't want to live anymore at different times.

[7:03] And to see it handled in such a schmaltzy, shallow way, I was like, this should be hitting me right where I live.

[7:08] And instead, I was just like, come on.

[7:10] Get out of here, movie.

[7:11] Like, don't bother.

[7:13] What are you doing?

[7:14] Like, I don't really feel like you know what you're talking about.

[7:16] So it was –

S3

[7:16] I think that's most infuriating about it.

Elliott Kalan

[7:19] Yeah.

[7:19] And so, yeah, we'll be touching on those topics.

[7:21] But, yeah, we are – we're only going after the movie.

[7:23] We are not going after people feeling those feelings.

Dan McCoy

[7:26] While watching it, I was talking to Audrey about, like, why I was resisting it so strenuously.

[7:31] And it's like, well, when a movie is like – like, this movie feels like it's not just pushing my buttons, but it, like, invited an elephant over to jump on those buttons.

[7:41] It just makes me get mad.

[7:42] I'm like, no movie.

[7:43] No.

[7:44] I don't –

[7:44] Stop it.

[7:45] I didn't give you a plus one.

Elliott Kalan

[7:46] And the plus one certainly would not have been an elephant.

[7:49] Yeah.

[7:50] Has anyone – do you think anyone's ever done that?

[7:52] They've ever gone to the party with, like, an animal and they'd be like, it said plus one.

[7:55] It didn't say plus one human.

[7:57] That's true.

[7:58] I mean –

Dan McCoy

[7:58] Should have been more clear.

[8:00] The party thrower is like, I guess there's nothing in the rule book for this party.

Elliott Kalan

[8:04] The party judge says, I'll allow it.

[8:06] Yeah.

[8:07] Because the judge is also a dog.

[8:09] That's the thing.

[8:11] That's how deep the air bug conspiracy goes.

[8:14] The judge is a dog, yeah.

[8:15] So, Stuart, what happens in this movie?

[8:17] Let's get into it, shall we?

Stuart Wellington

[8:18] Well, the movie certainly opens with text.

[8:20] That's right.

[8:21] Evan Hansen, a high school boy, played – let's say an ancient high school boy.

[8:26] His writing –

Elliott Kalan

[8:27] I guess we'll have to get that out of the way is, in case people are not familiar, Ben

[8:31] Platt, the star of the Broadway show, plays the character in the movie and I think he was

[8:35] in, like, his early 20s when he played the character on Broadway, but now he is in his

[8:39] late 20s and he looks like a grown man who has been held back 15 times.

Dan McCoy

[8:45] He's in his late 20s but looks a little older because, like, whatever – like, everything

[8:49] they've done to style him down has the opposite effect of aging him up.

Elliott Kalan

[8:54] When an elderly man has a mohawk and sunglasses, he doesn't look like a cool teen or a punk.

[8:59] He looks like an old man.

Stuart Wellington

[9:00] He also lost a lot of weight.

[9:02] So, he looks like – he lost a lot of weight to look like a younger, like, awkward teenage

[9:07] boy, but it just made him look older.

[9:10] Like, it made him look wrinklier.

Dan McCoy

[9:12] He didn't have his hat on backwards.

[9:14] He didn't have a slingshot in his pocket.

[9:16] Nope.

[9:17] No beanie with a propeller.

[9:18] Yeah.

[9:18] None of these things.

[9:19] I would not be so focused on appearance if it wasn't so disastrous to the movie.

[9:24] So, yeah.

[9:25] It's great.

[9:25] Yeah.

[9:25] Like, there's something about, like, the way it accentuates the olderness of his face.

[9:31] Like, the fact that he has done this with his body.

Elliott Kalan

[9:34] And it accentuates the artificiality of the plot to have someone who's clearly – so

[9:38] obviously not of an accurate age playing this part.

[9:42] And I think in a play, you can get away with that the same way that in a play, you can get

[9:45] away with having no set and you'll buy whatever.

[9:48] But in a movie, it's not harder to do that.

[9:49] But that's our town, Elliot.

S3

[9:51] Unless the movie is Grease.

[9:53] Unless it's Grease.

Elliott Kalan

[9:55] But Grease is already such a goofball movie, you know?

S3

[9:58] And everybody was in their 30s.

Elliott Kalan

[10:00] Yes.

[10:01] I mean, listen, if everybody in the movie – that's the other thing.

[10:03] If everybody in the movie looked like a grown-up, then you'd be like Saved by the Bell where

[10:07] it's like – or Beverly Hills 90210 where it's like, well, every teen looks like they're

[10:10] in their 20s, so it's not so bad.

[10:12] But in this, it's everyone – even when they are in their 20s, their cast will look like

[10:16] teens.

[10:17] They look like teens.

[10:17] And you have this one guy who looks like he's a grown-up.

[10:21] It looks like the John Cryer movie where he has to go – he has the witness production

[10:25] program and has to go back to high school as a teen.

[10:27] And like – you think all the other people in the high school must be like, what is this

[10:30] grown-up doing in our class?

[10:32] Is this Cameron Crowe come back to research Fast Times original High?

[10:35] Like, what's going on?

Dan McCoy

[10:36] Yes.

[10:37] And the lead character will be engaging in the sort of behavior that is much more understandable

[10:42] out of a confused teenager.

[10:44] But the older the man looks, the more angry you become with the character.

Stuart Wellington

[10:50] Yes.

[10:51] Yeah.

[10:51] Okay.

[10:52] Well, the movie opens with text.

[10:53] Evan Hansen's a high school boy.

[10:55] And he's writing an encouraging email to himself before the first day of his senior year

[11:00] of high school.

[11:03] He's anxious.

[11:04] He looks super old and has a cast over his wrist.

[11:07] And he sings this big number waving through a window like that sicko meme.

[11:14] And he's waving to all the people that walk by.

[11:17] It's this very moving piece about how everybody feels like they don't belong.

[11:21] And he takes a break.

Elliott Kalan

[11:23] Tap, tapping at the window.

[11:24] Yeah.

[11:25] Exactly.

[11:25] And because we don't know yet why the cast is there, we can only assume being a teen that

[11:28] he broke it masturbating furiously.

[11:30] It's some kind of carpal tunnel masturbation injury.

[11:33] He's like, dear Evan Hansen, give it a rest.

[11:36] It's not going anywhere.

[11:37] You're going to have it the rest of your life.

[11:39] You don't need to use it up now.

Stuart Wellington

[11:43] We meet his mom, played by Julianne Moore.

[11:45] And she is just too busy for him.

[11:48] You know, she's a single mom.

[11:49] She works real hard.

[11:50] She loves her kids.

[11:51] And she'll never stop.

[11:52] I don't remember the rest of the theme song.

[11:55] But she's still encouraging him to overcome.

[11:58] Like, she's encouraging him to overcome his social anxiety.

[12:01] He's on a series of medication that we see glimpses of.

[12:06] He's very nervous about this upcoming day of school.

[12:09] The school's mascot is the Bobcats.

[12:11] I don't know why I wrote that down, but it's important to me.

[12:15] Well, hold on.

Dan McCoy

[12:16] Well, it does play in very important later, right?

[12:19] Oh, no, it doesn't.

[12:19] Never mind.

[12:20] As long as you bring it up, though, we were watching it.

[12:23] And like, Audrey was suddenly like, wasn't there a movie with basically like a similar plot?

[12:27] And she was describing like, oh, yeah, World's Greatest Dead, directed by Bobcat Goldthwait.

[12:31] And she's like, do you think that they did the Bobcats because of this?

[12:35] I'm like, I don't know.

[12:35] It could be a weird tip of the hat.

[12:37] A tip of the hat to how they stole the plot from him.

[12:39] A different movie?

[12:40] Maybe, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[12:42] In many ways, and in many ways, a more sensitive handling of the topic.

[12:47] Yeah.

[12:48] Despite being like an overtly tasteless movie, you know, but anyway.

Stuart Wellington

[12:53] And the song that he's singing, which builds to this big crescendo while he's singing in a auditorium filled with people,

[12:59] but he's all alone, is that he keeps referencing climbing up a tree and then falling out of it

[13:06] and like no one being around there to like pick him up.

Elliott Kalan

[13:09] There's this song.

[13:10] And so I was, I had never heard the soundtrack to this show before.

[13:13] All the songs kind of sound the same.

Stuart Wellington

[13:16] And it's basically all like remixes of A Thousand Miles by Vanessa Carlton.

Elliott Kalan

[13:20] Yeah.

[13:21] And there's so many metaphors that he runs through.

[13:24] He's like, I'm tap, tap, tapping out the window.

[13:26] Then it's if a tree falls and no one's there, does anyone hear it?

[13:28] I'm stepping into the sun.

[13:30] And I was like, song, pick a metaphor.

[13:32] Like, then go with it.

[13:33] Like, I don't, you don't get to run through every possible metaphor in the whole song.

Dan McCoy

[13:37] You know?

[13:37] It's also a very modern style of musical theater composition that I don't like, probably just

[13:42] because I'm old, where it is not melody based.

[13:46] Like, you cannot like leave this and be like, oh, I remember the tune to that song.

Elliott Kalan

[13:51] It's not.

[13:52] The only part I walked away remembering was the line, I will sing no requiems in a later song

[13:58] because the line felt so out of character for every single person that sang the lyric.

[14:02] Because.

[14:03] Yeah.

[14:03] But anyway, that's the only part I remember.

[14:05] Did no one else.

[14:06] These people did La La Land and.

S3

[14:08] Sorry.

[14:08] Oh.

[14:09] I was going to say, did no one else wake up this morning singing, dear Evan Hansen, what

[14:13] to say to you?

[14:15] No?

[14:16] Just me?

Dan McCoy

[14:18] Audrey was literally singing to dear Theodosia around the house.

Elliott Kalan

[14:24] I have to admit, if it's possible the music didn't stick with me because my kids are obsessed

[14:27] with your good man Charlie Brown right now and we're listening to that soundtrack nonstop.

[14:31] So no matter what song I want to think of, what I hear is, why are you telling me my new

[14:37] philosophy from that show?

Dan McCoy

[14:39] Oh, I thought it was going to be supper, supper, supper, supper, supper.

[14:42] Yeah, that's a big one too.

Elliott Kalan

[14:43] And strangely enough, Beethoven Day, my kids love that song.

[14:46] Weird.

[14:46] Yeah.

[14:47] That's a song about the day where you watch all the Beethoven movies?

[14:50] Exactly.

[14:50] Yeah.

[14:50] Because Schroeder, the Peanuts character, loves the Beethoven films.

[14:53] That's what he's obsessed with.

[14:56] That's why he has the skin of a St. Bernard that he wears and he says, I'm Beethoven,

[14:59] I'm Beethoven.

[15:00] And who's going to be my Charles Brodin?

[15:02] And it frightens the other children so badly.

Stuart Wellington

[15:04] That makes sense.

[15:05] And then he's burned alive at the end of the festival.

[15:07] So.

[15:08] Yeah.

[15:08] At the end of Burning Beethoven?

[15:10] Yeah.

[15:11] Yeah.

[15:12] It's the only way they can ensure a good harvest, doi?

Elliott Kalan

[15:14] Yeah.

[15:15] So.

[15:16] Now I do want to see a Wicker Man parody where Summer Isle is just obsessed with the Beethoven

[15:21] films.

[15:22] And they're like, he's like, Kevin, he won't bring back the Beethoven franchise.

[15:26] Yeah.

[15:27] At first, he keeps talking about Clifford, the big red dog.

Stuart Wellington

[15:30] Yeah.

[15:30] He's so musical.

[15:31] So at first, Edward Woodward thinks he's just talking about Beethoven, the composer.

[15:36] And after a while, there's a dawning moment of horror when he realized it's about the movies.

[15:40] Yeah.

[15:42] It's like I almost understood it when it was the music.

[15:47] Okay.

[15:48] So this big opening ends at a school pep rally or some shit.

[15:54] Yeah.

[15:55] Where Evan Hansen is working, doing AV for it with his friend, Jared, who is playing the

[16:05] bitchiest gay best friend role.

[16:08] Like he dials up the snark to an insane level.

[16:11] It's wild.

Dan McCoy

[16:13] But at the same time, I find him the most sympathetic because I'm like, yes, you're right.

[16:17] You should be scoffing at the, well, I mean like Evan Hansen does some things later on that

[16:25] I'm like, the correct reaction to it is, what are you doing?

Elliott Kalan

[16:30] The problem here is, so Evan Hansen is so presented as life's innocent.

[16:34] He's so naive and innocent and gentle and doesn't want to hurt anybody.

[16:38] And his friend talks is really bitchy kind of in the way that teen boys are to each other.

[16:42] Like teen boys are nasty to each other.

[16:44] And it just feels so over the top because Evan Hansen is just so, is giving him nothing back.

[16:49] Like there's no, like when you're, I feel like when I was a teen boy, a lot of my commercial,

[16:52] conversations with my friends were like, fuck you idiot.

[16:55] No, you're stupid asshole.

[16:56] Like that would be the whole conversation.

[16:58] But with, but with, but with the two of them.

[16:59] And then we made a podcast about it.

[17:00] Yeah, exactly.

[17:01] Yeah.

[17:01] And we never grew up.

[17:02] But, but Jared is like, hey, loser.

[17:04] And Evan's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[17:05] I guess, I guess I am kind of a loser.

[17:07] And it's like, wait, hold on.

[17:08] That's not what a friend does.

[17:10] Like if his girlfriend would dial it back and be like, are you okay?

[17:13] But instead he's just mean to him all the time.

[17:14] Basically, nobody in the movie bullies him except his best friend when you get down.

[17:19] And, and also, and also Connor, the actual dear Evan Hansen.

Stuart Wellington

[17:22] Speaking of Connor, Evan has an intense encounter with Connor, an angry loner.

[17:28] And then Evan Hansen is disrespectful to Connor's sister, his crush, Zoe, played by Caitlin Deaver.

[17:34] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[17:35] And Caitlin Deaver, one of the many overqualified actresses in this movie.

[17:40] Her and Amy Adam and Julianne Moore are all fantastic.

[17:45] And like there are scenes in this movie, spoiler alert, that work for me.

[17:48] And then, and they almost all revolve around one of those side characters.

Elliott Kalan

[17:54] Yes.

[17:55] Oh, and by far their stories are, are more interesting and more, yeah, more emotional than Evan's, you know.

[18:01] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[18:01] Well, like Caitlin, Zoe, played by Caitlin Deaver, approaches Evan Hansen after his, after her brother, who we later find out is aggressive and abusive.

[18:10] Uh, that she approaches him with sympathy and offers to like shake his hand.

[18:15] And, and he won't shake her hand cause he's worried his hand is wet.

[18:18] And he just like, he's super, it's like, it's hard.

[18:21] At this point you're like, I'm having trouble finding sympathy for you.

[18:24] You gotta, you gotta give me something here, Evan Hansen.

Dan McCoy

[18:27] He runs off with a goofy run that, uh, like I've been, Ben Platt.

[18:32] I just have a theory that like the fact that he played this on stage really hampered him, not just for the age thing, but like, I feel like he's giving a much bigger performance than everyone else that maybe was, uh, like calibrated for the stage.

[18:46] And is not so good when the camera's right next to you.

[18:50] But sorry, what were you going to say, Elliot?

Elliott Kalan

[18:51] Well, it's adding to that the fact that every time a song ends, he stands there for 20 seconds to a minute.

[18:56] Like waiting for applause.

[18:57] That will never come cause it's a movie.

[18:59] No, I think similarly, I think.

[19:00] That's not worthy of applause.

[19:02] I think any time a grownup plays a kid and this is, and I mean, there's the movie Jack with Robin Williams, which is, which is not a good movie, but he is ostensibly playing a kid in a grown man's body, but he plays him as a small child as opposed to like a 10 year old.

[19:15] And here it feels like Ben Platt is playing a 10 year old rather than a teenager.

[19:19] Like he's, when grownups play kids, for some reason, they kind of forget that kids are almost always trying to appear older than they are in their actions or that their kids are full of energy.

[19:30] And like, if anything, Evan Hansen's character should be too loud rather than too quiet.

[19:34] Like he should be too eager rather than so, so like he's, when a kid feels that way often, they kind of overcompensate for it because they don't want people to notice and that gives them away.

[19:44] And instead he comes off as like, you know, he, I mean, to put it in the most tasteful way of it, he comes off as a guy with not just emotional, uh, problem, but not emotional instability, but also like mental disabilities.

[19:57] Like he comes off as a guy who is not of average intelligence for that age when he's not writing letters to himself.

[20:02] I mean, that's because he's overdoing it all the time.

Stuart Wellington

[20:05] Well, it's one of the reasons why adults playing children or even teenagers usually only works if it's a comedy, whether it's like, uh, John Hodgman's,

[20:14] never produced a TV show where he plays himself, uh, or, uh, Charlene's favorite show, pen 15.

[20:20] I knew you were doing that.

[20:25] For listeners at home, Charlene, uh, would like to warn everyone that she hates all nerds.

S3

[20:32] This is a bad idea.

[20:33] Not true.

[20:34] Not true.

[20:35] I'm married to a nerd.

[20:37] Oh, I guess my days aren't numbered.

Elliott Kalan

[20:40] You went to the store, give me your handsomest nerd.

[20:44] Give me, give me a nerd where people don't realize he's a nerd until they hear him talk or look at his t-shirt.

[20:53] Oh, that's cool.

[20:54] Uh, that's cool.

Stuart Wellington

[20:55] Let's make this about me instead of Evan Hansen.

Elliott Kalan

[20:59] Anyway, so what's Evan Hansen doing these days?

Stuart Wellington

[21:01] So he's, so, uh, we get a little bit of a montage of him in school and he's just not fitting in.

[21:07] For instance, in the locker room, he's surrounded by a bunch of super cut fucking hard bodies in his school.

[21:14] Like, yikes.

[21:15] Yeah.

[21:15] I'd be waiting for a window of that.

[21:16] Like, are they all in the same gym class?

S3

[21:17] Because he's, he's picked the wrong elective, I think.

[21:20] Yeah, I think you're right.

[21:21] If they're all in the same class.

[21:21] Like, he doesn't belong in that class.

Stuart Wellington

[21:23] He bumps in, he's, so he's been writing these, uh, he's been writing these layers to himself as an assignment from his therapist.

[21:30] And he has to print one of them out in the library, which seems like a huge mistake.

[21:37] Um, and the school library is backed, the, the printer line is backed up and he bumps into Connor again, who, uh, they, you know, they don't really hit it off.

[21:48] But Connor offers to sign his cast.

[21:50] He signs, uh, Evan's cast in the biggest font possible with a massive Sharpie.

Dan McCoy

[21:57] I mean, you think for a moment.

[21:58] I don't, I don't know if it's, I don't know if it's called a font if it's being handwritten.

Elliott Kalan

[22:03] Dan, thank you for saying it so I didn't have to.

[22:05] I mean, it was one of these times in Rome, right?

[22:09] It's not a font called Connor that you select.

Stuart Wellington

[22:12] Yeah, he selected wingdings on the, uh, on the Sharpie.

Elliott Kalan

[22:16] He's like, hold on, I gotta write in all these symbols.

[22:18] Wait, let me look up which one is an N.

[22:20] Hold on.

Dan McCoy

[22:20] This, uh, this is one of those interactions, though, that, you know, you have a lot of, uh, in high school where it's like, there's a weird aggression to it.

[22:28] It's like, the, Connor's not being maybe, like, genuinely nice to Evan Hansen.

[22:36] There's, like, this weird undercurrent, uh, at all times.

[22:39] Like, maybe if he's challenged, things will go off the rails, as they do later on.

[22:43] But it does seem that maybe Connor also is willing to reach out, uh, to some degree.

[22:51] Like, if things went differently, I don't know.

[22:53] Who knows?

[22:54] And he initiates.

Elliott Kalan

[22:55] He initiates the episode exactly.

[22:56] He's like, in the way he knows how, which is through hostility.

[23:00] Yeah, but it's not, but it doesn't feel like he is doing it.

[23:02] He's not like, let me sign your cast, moron.

[23:05] Like, he's, he's like, I'll sign it, I'll sign it.

[23:07] And he just does it too big.

[23:08] And he's, you know, he's a troubled soul.

Stuart Wellington

[23:10] And the, the Connor character, who is, plays, in a way, plays a big part in the movie.

[23:16] He's supposed to be this, like, troubled loner who has problems with drugs.

[23:20] But he just looks like a jock or, like, a theater dude.

Elliott Kalan

[23:24] I mean, because he is a theater dude, right?

[23:26] Because he was in the, he was also in the stage show, Dear Evan Hansen.

[23:29] But, uh, the fact that it's like, he has black fingernail polish and wears a black shirt.

[23:33] And it's like, look at this troublemaker.

[23:36] Look at this guy on the edge.

[23:38] Look at his fingers, man.

Stuart Wellington

[23:39] Better close up the town a little early tonight.

[23:41] We got trouble here.

S3

[23:43] And he's also such a troublemaker, but he has no friends.

[23:46] Like, where does he get the drugs?

Stuart Wellington

[23:48] That's a really good point.

[23:50] Every troublemaker I knew was surrounded by other troublemakers.

[23:54] Yeah.

[23:55] And I was like, how can I be with those cool kids?

Elliott Kalan

[23:58] The kids most like, the kids most like him in my high school were not one kid.

[24:01] It was, yeah, five of them.

[24:02] Yeah.

[24:02] And they were like a pack that roamed around and people were like rolling their eyes at them all the time.

[24:06] And I think they all got expelled when they called in a fake bomb threat so that they could leave school to go to a concert.

[24:11] I think.

[24:13] That's a movie right there.

[24:14] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[24:15] That's a good plan.

[24:16] So those were the Connors at my school.

[24:18] But yeah.

[24:19] So Connor signs his cast, but he gets the letter, right?

Stuart Wellington

[24:22] Yeah.

[24:22] He finds in the printer Evan Hansen.

[24:25] I keep trying to call him dear Evan Hansen.

[24:29] He finds Evan Hansen the letter that he had written to himself that specifically mentions Connor's sister, Zoe.

[24:37] And Connor thinks that his moment of connection is immediately broken.

[24:43] His walls go up.

[24:44] He thinks Evan is like gaslighting him or doing something to him.

[24:48] He takes the letter and he storms off in, you know, and Evan freaks out because he's worried that Connor is going to share this letter that shows his vulnerability to the school.

[25:00] And he spends the next couple of days trying to track down Connor, who is missing.

[25:03] He is gone.

[25:05] And we find out that he is then, when he is called into the principal's office shortly after this, to meet with Connor's parents, Cynthia Murphy and Larry.

[25:17] Oh, I don't.

[25:18] Larry is a different.

[25:19] Larry, different last name.

[25:21] But it's Connor's parents, played by Amy Adams and an actor who I'm not familiar with, but Char saw him on a cop show.

S3

[25:28] He's on SVU and he played like a-

[25:30] Danny Pino.

Elliott Kalan

[25:30] He was on Cold Cases for a long time.

S3

[25:33] And he plays a gang boss.

[25:36] He's on Mayans MC, right?

[25:38] Maybe that.

[25:39] Yeah.

[25:39] I think that's the one where he plays a gang.

[25:41] He plays a gang leader on something.

Dan McCoy

[25:43] He definitely looks like he is on some sort of Dick Wolf detective show.

[25:49] Yeah, he is.

[25:50] He absolutely is.

[25:51] He could be like Ben Bratt or something.

[25:54] Yeah.

[25:55] Is it because-

[25:56] One of the Dick Wolf guys.

[25:57] He was an SVU.

Elliott Kalan

[25:57] That's right.

[25:58] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[25:58] There's a scene later on where he's like sitting on the couch watching TV and he's still wearing his tie.

[26:03] And I'm like, what maniac is still wearing their tie in their own home?

[26:09] Like he doesn't need to stay dressed up for any reason.

[26:12] He's watching TV.

[26:13] It's not like the TV can see you.

Elliott Kalan

[26:18] So, yeah.

[26:19] Well, certain TVs can see you.

[26:20] And there was a large settlement case a couple years ago because people were being watched through their TVs.

[26:25] Oh, my goodness.

[26:26] This TV can see me.

[26:27] They can be judged for their clothes.

[26:28] It's a computer screen.

[26:31] We can see you right now.

Stuart Wellington

[26:33] Oh, no.

[26:34] And they're like-

[26:34] So the reason why-

[26:35] And they give him some bad news, right?

[26:36] Yeah.

[26:37] Thank you for leading me along, Elliot.

[26:41] Well, I think this show's more about bits where I was going to make a joke about Black Mirror.

[26:44] But, you know, fuck it.

[26:45] Let's get on with the plot.

[26:47] Oh, wow.

[26:48] So the reason why Evan has to go talk to Connor's parents is because Connor has committed suicide.

[26:54] And their only bit of information that they have is the note that Evan had written to himself was found in Connor's back pocket.

[27:03] And they assume that it was a suicide note written by Connor.

[27:06] So at this point, this story that we thought was about, like, teen isolation has now turned into, like, a farce a little bit, which is fucking strange.

Elliott Kalan

[27:15] I bet, like, a tragic farce.

[27:17] It's not meant to be funny.

[27:18] Yeah.

[27:18] It's not like the movie is like, uh-oh, what's going to happen with this mix-up?

[27:23] You know, it's – but it is a – you're right.

[27:25] It is a farce type of mechanism for them to – I mean, if you find – if I can understand in their situation them being like, I think this is what this is.

[27:35] He must have written this.

[27:36] It doesn't sound like him, but – and we didn't know that he ever knew you because we don't know who you are, Evan Hansen, but maybe.

[27:43] But then for Evan Hansen to be like, uh, yeah.

[27:47] Yeah.

[27:47] Yeah, maybe.

[27:49] Like, he doesn't – it would be so easy for him to say, I wrote that myself and he took it from me.

[27:56] But I guess he doesn't want anyone to know that he has a crush on Zoe or something like that.

[28:00] So he just goes along with it.

Dan McCoy

[28:02] I think a lot of it has to do with his crippling anxiety and, like, in the moment, he doesn't want to, like, take away – like, Amy Adams is like, this is one of the few things we have.

[28:13] That's true.

Elliott Kalan

[28:13] He feels like he's saving her the pain of not having anything left.

S3

[28:19] I have to point out that this is somebody who is so socially awkward he couldn't even shake Zoe's hand, yet he is cold-reading this family and figuring out what they want to hear.

Elliott Kalan

[28:31] Like, only Miss Cleo can do.

[28:34] He's like, yeah, yeah, we used to hang out at – I mean, this might be later.

[28:37] We used to hang out at his different place.

[28:39] The Orchard?

[28:39] Yeah, The Orchard.

[28:41] Exactly.

[28:43] Where did he get these skills?

[28:45] I'm feeling the letter L.

[28:47] Do you know someone with the letter L?

[28:49] My Aunt Louise?

[28:50] Yes, that's right.

[28:50] It's Louise.

[28:51] Okay.

Dan McCoy

[28:53] Yeah, well, he grows up to be Bradley Cooper in Nightmare Alley is what happens.

Elliott Kalan

[28:57] So he grows up and goes through a time warp to the past?

[28:59] Hold on a second.

[29:01] It'd be so funny.

[29:02] The last scene of Dear Evan Hansen is him writing a letter to himself and then falling through a time portal and ending up in the 1920s.

[29:08] He can grow up to be Bradley Cooper in the 1940s or whatever, 1930s.

Stuart Wellington

[29:13] Age and time mean very little to Evan Hansen as we have already talked about.

Elliott Kalan

[29:18] He's already halfway to being the character from – was it Heinlein's story, All You Zombies or something, where the same person is their own mother, father, and child.

[29:27] Like, because they travel through time.

[29:29] Anyway.

[29:29] Like, Jesus.

[29:31] No, that's not true at all.

[29:34] So Evan goes along with the ruse.

[29:35] Jesus is not his own mother and father.

[29:37] He's just a hot single who's looking to connect.

Stuart Wellington

[29:42] Evan goes over to Murphy's house and he continues this lie that he and Connor are best friends.

[29:48] He does this cold reading situation.

[29:52] And when he's pressed, he continues to double down.

[29:56] He keeps building on the lie.

[29:58] He sings a whole song about it.

[30:00] Yeah.

[30:01] And that's – it leads to a big musical number.

[30:04] And by being –

[30:05] I love lying.

[30:05] It takes place entirely at a dining room table where Ben Platt sits at the table singing to their faces.

Elliott Kalan

[30:13] It's so funny.

[30:14] It's such a funny way to stage it that he's just – it's just like, yeah.

[30:17] And because there's nothing fantastical about the staging, there's no musical number, it's like, yeah, I think maybe this character in reality is just sitting at this table.

[30:26] They're not eating in these people's faces.

Dan McCoy

[30:28] And the thing that makes it –

[30:30] Did you guys have the –

[30:30] Go on.

[30:31] I was wondering if you had the same experience I did with this dinner thing where I was just –

Elliott Kalan

[30:34] Where you really wanted to eat the food because they weren't touching it?

Dan McCoy

[30:36] I was trying to figure out what the food was.

Elliott Kalan

[30:39] They had some kind of chicken on there it looked like.

[30:41] They had chicken.

Dan McCoy

[30:42] But they also had like this – like what I guess was like a giant roll but it had kind of like a pastry outside.

[30:48] Like it looked like maybe like a brioche.

Elliott Kalan

[30:50] Which is weird because the mom makes a big point of being gluten-free later in the movie.

[30:54] Yeah.

[30:54] Oh, yeah.

[30:54] But it was bothering me that nobody was touching this food the entire scene.

[30:58] I'm like, is that a roll?

[31:00] Is it a potato?

Stuart Wellington

[31:01] Sorry.

[31:02] Yeah.

[31:03] Stuart?

[31:03] Yeah, that's clearly why the father was looking so unhappy the whole time because like this kid showed up so I could eat.

[31:10] Yeah, so he's basically singing a song that's all made up about his friendship with Connor.

[31:16] And it's mainly just him sitting at the table singing to their faces.

[31:19] And occasionally we get glimpses of him – of flashbacks where Evan climbed a tree and fell out of the tree.

[31:27] But in this version of it, Connor is there to help him up.

[31:32] But at the same time, Amy Adams is so desperate to learn more about her son.

[31:39] But the father is skeptical and the sister Zoe is very skeptical because – and the twist at this point we learn is that Connor was not well-liked by them.

[31:54] That he was abusive.

[31:55] That he had drug problems.

[31:57] And that this is kind of the first time they'd heard anything positive about him from anybody.

Dan McCoy

[32:01] Yes.

[32:02] Which is also like World's Greatest Dad where he forges notes to make his son sound nicer than he was.

[32:11] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[32:12] Yeah, so when they realize that he doesn't have – that they want more information, that they couldn't find any communication between Connor and Evan on Connor's devices.

[32:24] Evan decides to sweeten this deal a little bit by involving his friend Jared.

[32:30] And together they forge an extensive email relationship between Evan and Connor.

Elliott Kalan

[32:38] Yeah.

[32:38] And this is the one lighthearted song in the whole movie when they're doing this.

[32:42] Yeah.

[32:43] Like it gets pretty silly, this song.

[32:45] Yeah.

[32:45] Because every other song in this is like – is like, we're going to make you cry with this song.

[32:52] You're going to cry by the end of this song.

[32:55] But this one's like, we're buddies and we're doing things.

[32:57] Me and my friend Connor.

[32:58] Doodly.

[32:59] We're in go-karts now.

[32:59] It's like something – yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[33:01] That first one you did was like something out of the Bad Out of Hell musical.

[33:04] Actually, it was much more Jim Steinman of Meatloaf.

[33:07] Yeah, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[33:08] No, it has fun staging because they're putting words into Connor's mouth and you see Connor singing them and dancing.

[33:16] And as Evan objects to what his friend is writing, the words will change.

[33:22] They'll do it over again.

[33:23] And I agree that this is actually a pretty funny song.

[33:27] It's probably the number I enjoyed the most because I'm like, okay, something is like cutting through the schmaltz.

[33:34] With like a little bit of irony, like showing some sense of that the show knows how screwed up all of this is.

[33:43] Rather than like look what this – you know, the sad web, like a lot of bad things happen.

[33:50] But ultimately it brought people closer together and taught this kid how to be better.

[33:57] So isn't it worth it?

[33:58] I'm like, I don't know.

S3

[34:00] It almost makes it worse because now you understand that they know how to make like a light, fun song.

Elliott Kalan

[34:07] Exactly.

[34:08] So in the show were there other light songs?

[34:11] Because I know they cut songs for the movie but I don't know any of them.

[34:14] Or were they all serious except for this one?

[34:16] Or was this the new song they added for the Oscars?

Stuart Wellington

[34:19] No, this was in the – I remember this song from the stage production.

[34:22] I know there's a song they cut where Larry, Connor's dad, plays catch with Evan.

[34:32] For some reason they're like, nah, this doesn't need to be in the movie.

[34:36] And they also cut a couple songs that Evan's mom sang.

[34:41] I'm assuming in part because Julianne Moore does not have a big musical theater background.

Elliott Kalan

[34:47] I mean they can put in someone else's voice though, I guess.

[34:50] I guess that's not as well looked on now.

[34:53] But I mean that's the way movie musicals used to be for decades.

S3

[34:56] I guess two hours and 21 minutes weren't enough for you.

Elliott Kalan

[35:01] Yeah.

[35:01] I wanted more – I wish the movie was called more Evan Hansen.

[35:06] That's what I wanted to just exist in the world of the Bobcat school for longer.

[35:10] Follow some of those other characters.

[35:11] See where their labyrinths lead.

Dan McCoy

[35:13] This was your avatar.

[35:16] Some people dream of living on Pandora.

[35:18] I want to be in that high school.

Elliott Kalan

[35:20] Well, where's the theme park for me?

[35:21] My dear Evan Hansen world.

[35:23] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[35:23] So I mentioned Julianne Moore.

[35:26] Well, she keeps trying to reach out to Evan but she also keeps flaking on him.

[35:32] She wants to connect but every time she makes plans, she has to bail because she has to work.

[35:39] Yeah.

[35:39] And Evan is getting more and more distant from her whether it's because he is wise to her patterns or because he is getting so caught up in his imaginary life.

Elliott Kalan

[35:51] In his web of lies that are pushing Zoe, his crush, to the point of – to extremes of behavior.

[35:57] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[35:58] You know.

[35:58] Yeah.

[35:58] And he also – and speaking of Zoe, this is when he uses an opportunity to get closer to her where she wants to know more about – because she's mentioned in the Dear Evan Hansen letter.

[36:10] She wants to know more about if Connor said anything about her.

[36:15] So at this point, he sings this super creepy-ass song about basically superimposing all of his feelings and observations about Zoe onto things Connor said, which is fucking wild.

[36:28] It's so creepy and gross.

Dan McCoy

[36:31] It feels like Zoe should be like, oh, so that's why he killed himself.

[36:35] He couldn't deal with the fact that he was in love with his own sister.

[36:37] Yeah.

[36:38] That's what it feels like.

Elliott Kalan

[36:39] All the things he's saying are like things that would make sense for a crush to say.

[36:44] But yeah, he's channeling it through the Connor's memory and she's like, really?

[36:48] Yeah.

[36:49] That's weird.

[36:49] These are not things like –

[36:51] It's a mixture of –

[36:52] These are not things that a brother feels for his sister.

[36:53] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[36:53] Yeah.

[36:53] It's a mixture of things you would have for your crush but also this like, oh, but it's forbidden.

[37:00] Like his attitude toward why he can't share this information is that like there's – I can't do it.

[37:05] Society wouldn't accept it.

[37:08] And it's also wild to see Ben Platt who looks like an old man singing it.

S3

[37:13] I don't have any siblings.

Stuart Wellington

[37:15] I guess you're right.

[37:17] I mean maybe – maybe.

[37:19] We know that they're not but, you know, the internet seems very taken with the concept of step-siblings having relations.

[37:25] Right, Dan?

[37:26] What?

[37:27] You brought it up.

[37:28] You were just telling me about it.

Elliott Kalan

[37:30] Have you guys ever seen – have you guys ever stumbled upon the –

[37:34] Have you guys ever seen this stuff?

[37:40] No, there's –

[37:41] I'll send you some links.

[37:42] The pornography where it is people who are not related and who are pretending to be in a family in the video so that they can be having sex within their family.

[37:53] But you, the viewer, knows they're not really a family though.

[37:55] It's this – it's like – it feels like this is something that was shown to me.

[38:01] And I was like, what audience is this for?

[38:04] Shown to me by the wizard's porn hub.

[38:07] Halfway.

Dan McCoy

[38:10] Yeah.

[38:11] It's like, well, even within the confines of fantasy, I need to make it clear that I realize – like, let's everyone – I'm going to sign an affidavit about this pornography.

[38:24] Meanwhile, the rest of the school –

Elliott Kalan

[38:26] I need plausible deniability on this pornography.

Stuart Wellington

[38:32] Yeah.

[38:32] I mean once you have all that, then you're allowed to legally have a boner.

[38:37] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[38:38] That's when Judge Bud –

[38:39] I'll allow it.

[38:40] Judge Air Bud says, ruff, ruff, which means I'll allow it.

[38:42] Yeah.

[38:43] Because the judge at sex court is also a dog.

[38:46] Oh, man.

Stuart Wellington

[38:47] How deep does this go?

[38:50] Sex court.

[38:51] Okay.

[38:51] So the whole school has latched on to the tragedy.

Elliott Kalan

[38:54] Today in sex court, the plaintiff wants to have sex with the defendant.

[38:58] Will the defendant say yes?

[38:59] Okay.

[39:00] That's – well, okay.

[39:01] The verdict was yes.

[39:02] That's sex court.

[39:02] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[39:03] I feel like that show Hot Bench was like, can we just call it sex court?

[39:08] And they're like, no, no, no.

[39:09] That's too obvious.

[39:10] What is Hot Bench?

[39:11] I don't know that show.

[39:13] Hot Bench is a show with Charlene.

S3

[39:15] You're a judicial show.

[39:17] Well, Hot Bench is created by Judge Judy and there are three judges and I actually don't watch it.

[39:24] I don't like it that much.

Dan McCoy

[39:26] See, it sounds more to me like a game show that would confuse you while you were traveling.

[39:32] Where it's like there's a very hot bench and people just have to sit on it as long as –

[39:37] You're not really sure what the rules are.

Elliott Kalan

[39:39] When you sit on it the longest wins the bench.

[39:41] Yeah.

[39:42] There's eight different pieces of writing in different fonts on the screen at any point.

[39:46] And a cartoon character with a tongue hanging out just spinning around in one corner.

[39:49] And you're like, I don't understand how a human being intakes this in sensory input and processes it in a way.

[39:55] We were watching – that work recently, we were watching a clip from a Japanese kind of hidden camera show.

[40:01] And there were so many people in – like there were so many commentators on the video talking at the exact same time.

[40:08] And also audience noise.

[40:10] And I was like, I don't understand how to parse these voices.

[40:12] Like I don't know.

Dan McCoy

[40:13] That's always really interesting to me is like watching shows that, you know, in America we wouldn't think would have commentators.

[40:22] But like in Japan, various like different genres like also like have like a panel of commentators to talk about the show.

[40:30] It looks like they took the after show and put it in the middle of the show at the same time.

[40:33] They put it during the show, yeah.

[40:35] So it's a bold –

[40:36] It saves time.

Elliott Kalan

[40:36] It's a very busy country.

[40:38] They've got to get it done quickly.

[40:39] They're on the move.

Stuart Wellington

[40:41] So meanwhile, the whole school has latched onto the tragedy of Connor's passing.

Elliott Kalan

[40:45] Oh, wait.

[40:46] Oh, can I mention one thing where we see Evan's room and there's a Ben Folds poster in his room?

[40:51] And I turned to my wife and went, no shit.

[40:53] Because like –

[40:54] Yeah, of course he listens to Ben Folds.

[40:56] Like this –

[40:57] Yeah, right next to like a radio headmaster.

Stuart Wellington

[41:00] Yeah.

[41:01] So the whole school has latched onto the tragedy and the kids have all found ways to make this tragedy personal like teenagers and sociopaths do.

[41:13] And specifically Alana, the head – I think she's like the head cheerleader or like the class president.

Elliott Kalan

[41:19] She's the class president, I think.

[41:20] She's like the activist kid at the school.

[41:23] She's always got a cause.

Stuart Wellington

[41:24] She decides to organize a charity in Connor's name.

[41:28] So at this point, the lie is starting to get even bigger.

[41:33] Yeah, there's – I mean there is one thing the show does and it latches – it grasps is that teenagers find a way to make every little thing about them.

[41:42] And then we – I have a note here that Amy Adams takes Evan Hansen to her son Connor's room, bedroom, which is surprisingly clean and makes me feel like what was – my room was way more fucked up.

Elliott Kalan

[41:57] None of the rooms in this movie look like people actually live in them.

[42:01] They all look like they've been staged for a real estate company or a department store that's selling the furniture.

Stuart Wellington

[42:07] There are a couple holes in the drywall from where he punched them.

[42:10] But I feel like a real bad kid would have then like drawn around them in Sharpie or something because we all know that he likes to write his name big in Sharpie.

Elliott Kalan

[42:20] That would be funny if the walls were covered with him practicing his name in Sharpie in different fonts and styles.

[42:29] He does one in bubble letters and one where the letters are all animals with faces and things.

Stuart Wellington

[42:34] Yeah, he's a tagger.

[42:38] Evan agrees to speak at Connor's memorial at the school and he is going to wear the saddest tie in the world, Connor's tie that was purchased for him to go to a bar mitzvahs and he did not get invited to a single one.

[42:52] It's like baby shoes never worn, the tie.

[42:57] And Evan goes up on stage in front of the whole school and he starts to biff it hard.

Elliott Kalan

[43:08] It's a six word short story.

[43:09] For sale, tie, never worn.

[43:11] Shit, I need another word.

Stuart Wellington

[43:14] So Evan goes up to speak and he starts fucking it up.

[43:19] He gets too nervous and he fucks it up just enough that all the shitty kids whip out their phones to start TikToking it.

[43:25] And of course at that point he's like, fuck yeah, it's my time to shine.

[43:28] And he sings a big ass song and everyone's like, oh my God, he's doing it.

Elliott Kalan

[43:32] He sings this song about how no matter how alone you feel, you will be found.

[43:37] It's just such an amazing song.

Stuart Wellington

[43:39] It's the big one that's in all the ads.

Dan McCoy

[43:41] And he sings it so long that there's a montage of it going viral.

Elliott Kalan

[43:47] In this montage of it going viral, we were watching it and my wife went, that's my old coworker.

[43:53] And there's an older lady who shows up in it and she was like, that can't be.

[43:57] It must be somebody else.

[43:57] And we looked it up on the, like when you pause it on Amazon and the names of the cast came up.

[44:03] And there it was listed.

[44:04] The woman she used to work with at the private school she was a librarian at.

[44:07] And it turns out this woman, her son-in-law was one of the editors on the movie and put her in during this section.

[44:14] So if anything, that was the most exciting.

[44:16] That was the most exciting part of the movie to us was when my wife recognized an old coworker as lady talking virally about how this video you have to look at.

[44:25] And the viral video, the video of his speech, it has the title, his best friend killed himself.

[44:31] It was like his best friend killed himself.

[44:33] You'll never guess what he did next.

Dan McCoy

[44:35] And it's like, literally what he's doing is giving a eulogy for his friends.

Elliott Kalan

[44:39] It's not, but it's such a funny title.

Dan McCoy

[44:43] Yeah.

[44:44] This whole segment is shot like, I don't know, like an ad for YouTube that would play during the Super Bowl.

[44:51] That's meant to make you cry about something.

[44:54] Like, this is one of the biggest instances of me, like getting mad at the movie, specifically the way it's directed, because it does seem to be taking its cues from like tear jerking advertisements rather than anything that feels like honest.

Stuart Wellington

[45:09] And yeah, no, you're, you're a hundred percent right.

[45:11] And it's filled with people also making this tragedy about them, making their own videos, like reaction videos to the video.

[45:18] And it starts to get, actually starts to get some serious views.

[45:22] At first I'm like, oh, those are dog shit numbers, but it makes some serious views.

[45:25] And I'm like, I'm assuming there's people on Twitter that are like, I hope Evan Hansen doesn't become a milkshake duck.

[45:31] And you're like, oh buddy.

[45:33] What?

[45:35] Sure.

[45:36] I'll explain what milkshake.

[45:37] I think I have before.

S3

[45:39] You asked me to do it to you once, but I didn't know what it was.

Stuart Wellington

[45:46] Yeah.

[45:47] Yeah.

[45:47] That was, you know, that's a little, a little peek behind the curtain.

[45:51] It involves a curtain is why I said curtain.

[45:53] Oh, okay.

[45:54] Yeah.

[45:56] So, yeah.

[45:58] So it like this, this lie continues to build and get bigger, but it also by going the, by his eulogy going viral, it finally allows the family to come to

[46:09] terms with Connor's death.

[46:10] And they come together and they grieve finally.

[46:13] I don't know why this does it, but then I also can't explain how people can get through this life of ours.

Elliott Kalan

[46:21] But it is, it is this weird moment of it that it is, this is the closest it gets to like commentary about modern age, modern days, I guess, is that it's like, he gives this, he gives this fake speech that connects with people emotionally all over the world.

[46:36] And it's not until this family has gotten the, like the eyes of the world on them that they can finally move forward.

[46:44] It's almost like they don't exist until other people are witnessing their grief and absorbing it into themselves and reflecting it back as gratitude.

[46:51] You know?

[46:52] Yeah.

[46:52] Which is a sad commentary on these troubled times.

[46:54] For 60 Minutes, I'm Elliot Kalin.

[46:57] Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick.

[46:59] How did our show get in the middle of 60 Minutes?

Stuart Wellington

[47:03] Evan keeps leeching off the family.

[47:05] He keeps pushing his mother away.

[47:07] He manages to get his cast off.

[47:09] I don't know what that symbolizes.

[47:10] Maybe that's that shell that he's been trying to burst out of so he can become a full-time fucking manipulator.

[47:18] The chrysalis is gone.

Elliott Kalan

[47:20] Yeah, yeah.

[47:20] He's no longer a gentle caterpillar.

[47:22] He's now a con man butterfly.

[47:24] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[47:25] So then we get a weird scene where Zoe comes over to his house and she immediately wants to go see his bedroom.

[47:33] And we're like, what the hell?

[47:34] And, you know, she takes her coat off.

[47:37] Charlene, you're a girl.

[47:38] You've done this before, right?

S3

[47:39] I've been like, can I see your bedroom?

Stuart Wellington

[47:44] Yeah, let me check it out.

[47:45] Let me sit on the edge of the bed.

[47:46] Show me where you keep all your dirty socks.

[47:48] Yeah.

[47:51] And then she explains that, like, Evan, we don't have to talk about my brother anymore.

[47:56] That she likes him for him, not because he sings like Pavarotti or because he's such a hottie.

Elliott Kalan

[48:02] Oh, boy.

[48:03] I was wondering if that song was going to come up.

[48:05] Oh, man.

[48:07] Did not like it then.

[48:08] Don't like it now.

[48:09] It's still bad.

Stuart Wellington

[48:11] It's still a bad song.

[48:13] This is a weird scene because, again, it's Ben Platt and Caitlin Deaver and it's, you know, whatever.

Elliott Kalan

[48:18] And, again, they're not that far apart from each other in real age.

[48:21] But in movie age, they look like they're very far apart from each other.

[48:24] Yeah.

[48:25] Yeah.

[48:26] And it is also weird for her to be like, I like you for you.

[48:29] And it's like, well, he's provided nothing but Connor stuff.

[48:32] So, I don't know what it is about him that you're seeing.

[48:34] I mean, she senses a gentle, lying soul.

Stuart Wellington

[48:39] But she lies to grieving families.

[48:41] She approached him.

[48:43] I mean, she's the one who initiated contact first.

[48:45] And we don't really know enough about her.

[48:48] That's true.

[48:48] Like, in her life other than she was, like, threatened and abused by her brother.

[48:53] And she likes to play music.

[48:54] So, maybe she had a huge crush on him, too.

[48:56] We don't know.

Elliott Kalan

[48:57] We don't know.

[48:57] That was something that my wife was saying when we were watching was that she totally, when she was younger,

[49:02] she would see a guy who was kind of, like, quiet, moping by himself and assume,

[49:05] he must have such a deep soul.

[49:07] Like, he must be so wise.

[49:09] And there's such poetry in him.

[49:11] And then she'd meet those guys, which never worked for me.

[49:13] No one ever approached me thinking I had a deep soul when I was a quiet, mopey kid.

[49:17] But she would approach them and it would be like, oh, no, they have nothing going on.

[49:21] Like, these still waters do not run deep.

S3

[49:24] I have a question, though.

[49:25] Were you really a quiet kid?

Elliott Kalan

[49:28] Gotcha.

[49:29] All right.

[49:30] You got me.

[49:31] You got me.

[49:33] I'm making up for it now.

[49:34] That's why I'm so talky-talky now.

[49:36] Okay.

[49:37] Because I have all these words built up behind the dam of loneliness that was there before.

[49:41] But then when I reach a certain age, it just burst through the dam into an endless torrent of language.

[49:46] Right, Dan?

Dan McCoy

[49:47] Uh-huh.

[49:49] Sorry, I was just remembering full of words.

[49:51] I was thinking of the full of worms part of Roxanne.

[49:55] Okay.

[49:59] So, you know, sometimes if I get bored in the middle of a flop house, I just start thinking about a Steve Martin movie.

Stuart Wellington

[50:04] Steve Martin's in Zeus and Roxanne?

Dan McCoy

[50:07] Yeah.

[50:08] He played the porpoise.

[50:10] Oh, wow.

Elliott Kalan

[50:11] That's great.

[50:12] Somebody saw the poster for Zeus and Roxanne, and they were like, I love Steve Martin.

[50:16] I love Greek mythology.

[50:17] This is going to be great.

[50:18] And they were so disappointed in that movie.

[50:20] Oh, what a bummer.

[50:22] So, Evan's mom-

[50:23] I love Greek mythology.

[50:25] I love the police.

[50:26] Gotta go see this movie.

[50:27] Mm-hmm.

Stuart Wellington

[50:29] So, Evan's mom finally meets Connor's family.

[50:31] They have this organized dinner thing.

[50:35] And even though Evan kept, he's been lying to his mom as well, but significantly lazier.

[50:42] Like, he has been kind of distracted while talking to her.

Elliott Kalan

[50:45] Yeah.

[50:46] There's a scene earlier where his mom is like, why didn't you tell me you had a friend and he died and you gave a speech and it was a big thing?

[50:52] Like, someone at work showed her the video.

[50:54] And it's like, they really are really separated from each other.

[50:56] Like, they don't ever seem to be in the same room very often.

[50:59] You know?

[50:59] Yeah.

[51:00] But so she's finally learning a lot about her son.

Stuart Wellington

[51:02] And it gets pretty harsh because Connor's family offers to help Evan out with college money.

[51:09] And Julianne Moore's like, uh-uh, conversation over.

[51:12] I got my own money.

[51:13] And they bounce.

[51:15] And Evan is like, I don't know.

[51:17] Like, he kind of just doubles down on being shitty.

[51:20] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[51:20] Yeah.

[51:21] And this is a part-

[51:22] This part felt a little real to me at least because I feel like a teen boy would fail to see the complicated emotions in a moment of a rich family saying to your mom,

[51:32] don't worry, we'll pay for college for your son.

[51:34] Like, I totally get that a teen kid would only be able to look at it from their own point of view and not see how that's difficult for his mom.

[51:40] But it's-

[51:42] I don't remember there being any, like, payoff to that other than that they're just mad at each other for the scene.

[51:47] And then it just goes back to Evan's parade of lies with everybody else, you know?

Stuart Wellington

[51:52] Meanwhile, Alana is starting to find the cracks in Evan's story.

[51:56] She flat out asks him if he's lying.

[51:59] And then he, of course, doubles down again by emailing her the original Dear Evan Hansen letter.

[52:07] Before, the public had only seen the phony emails.

[52:10] Now, he sent the actual letter, which he didn't have to-

[52:14] He could have just shown her on his phone.

[52:16] Like, he didn't need to do this paper trip.

[52:18] Yeah.

[52:18] Because that gets worse because she is nervous that the fundraising for the charity is not going well enough.

[52:26] So she-

Elliott Kalan

[52:26] And this charity is to rebuild the orchard that Connor supposedly loved.

[52:31] That was Connor's favorite place.

[52:33] Mm-hmm.

[52:33] Connor's favorite place.

Stuart Wellington

[52:34] Something we should all feel pretty strongly about.

[52:38] And then she posts the letter on Instagram.

[52:41] We then see our characters at a party where everybody is very eagerly looking at Instagram.

Elliott Kalan

[52:48] Like, everyone's got notifications set up for Connor-related material.

[52:52] Like, because it instantly goes to everyone's phone.

[52:54] Like, the speed of our-

[52:55] I mean, movies-

[52:56] Things go viral in movies so much faster than they do in real life because I feel like it goes-

[53:01] Things move quickly, they go viral.

[53:03] But I've never been in a room with-

[53:06] At a party and suddenly everyone's looking at their phone and getting the news all at once or something like that.

Dan McCoy

[53:11] And so rarely is the news relevant.

[53:14] You know, I have a Google alert set up for Flophouse podcast.

[53:17] It's usually something like, the house flip-flops on this piece of legislation.

[53:23] I'm like, oh, okay.

[53:24] Well, disappointed again.

[53:26] Dan's like, I'm going to keep scrolling.

Stuart Wellington

[53:28] They might mention me.

Dan McCoy

[53:31] But seeing this letter gets everyone mad at the parents, which was something I didn't understand for a while.

[53:38] I mean, later, like, granted, I wasn't paying the closest attention.

[53:41] Like, later, I guess it comes out-

[53:43] Why would you?

[53:44] The letter refers to his own dad and mom that then, like, they think they're saying that Connor's dad and mom were bad.

[53:52] Well, I don't think we see, like, the full text of the letter earlier.

[53:57] Maybe I'm wrong.

Elliott Kalan

[53:58] Well, there is something in there about his parents not understanding him or something.

[54:02] And, yeah, I think people latch on to that as it must be their fault that he did this to himself.

[54:08] Right.

[54:08] But it does seem like it comes out of nowhere.

Dan McCoy

[54:10] Yeah.

[54:11] It's strange because unless it was, like, a letter where he's like, I don't know, the parents were abusing me or something really horrible.

[54:18] Like, one would assume, and I don't want to sound insensitive saying this, but I feel like one would assume that a troubled teen in their letter would blame their parents for things.

[54:32] And I don't know.

[54:33] I wouldn't necessarily see that and assume, like, oh, these must be horrible parents.

[54:37] I would seem like this person was in a lot of pain.

[54:40] Like, they were dealing with a lot of stuff.

Elliott Kalan

[54:42] I think to play devil's advocate, which means I'm now Keanu Reeves.

[54:46] Oh, wow.

[54:47] You're Al Pacino in that movie.

[54:49] I guess so.

[54:51] Anyway.

[54:52] It's very loud.

[54:53] To play devil's advocate, the internet does, I mean, there is right now at least.

[54:58] I don't know when this movie was made, if it was that way as much.

[55:00] But there is this feeling that anything that gets posted on the internet cannot be taken at face value and is a mystery to be unraveled.

[55:07] Yes.

[55:07] And so you've got to look like, there was that video recently where the girl surprised her boyfriend at college and it took him a second to realize that she was there.

[55:16] And people were like, I can tell from all the clues in this video that he is a monster.

[55:20] He's a sociopath.

[55:21] Like, I could see just because the internet is so uniquely corrosive that people would do that, I guess.

[55:29] But it's not really earned in the movie.

[55:31] Well, the thing that's wild to me is that.

[55:32] In real life, I would totally buy it.

Stuart Wellington

[55:34] But in a movie, I expect more, you know.

[55:36] And for me, it's wild.

[55:38] Like, what really would have happened is people would have turned on Evan Hansen and this family the first day or so.

[55:46] Like, there would always be, like, that's how it works.

[55:48] That's how the cycle works.

[55:49] There will be people.

Elliott Kalan

[55:50] I mean, you know, the first hundred comments on the video of his speech would be like, eat a dick, you suck, like that kind of stuff, you know.

[55:56] Yeah.

[55:57] Yeah.

[55:58] The cycle doesn't take that long.

[55:59] It's almost instant, you know.

[56:02] So.

[56:02] The internet's terrible.

Stuart Wellington

[56:03] So the family starts to get some serious heat.

[56:05] They are not loving it.

[56:06] And that actually starts to.

[56:08] Not serious heat in a bad way.

Elliott Kalan

[56:09] Not serious heat like Hollywood's Colin.

Stuart Wellington

[56:11] Yeah, yeah.

[56:12] We got to make a musical of this.

[56:14] That would be a twist.

[56:16] And so the family starts to crack apart under the pressure.

[56:21] It, you know, it's brought up that one of the changes from the stage show is that the father, Connor's father is actually a stepfather in this.

[56:30] And there's a, that, that provides some additional, like an additional seam to split apart where they, where Amy Adams brings up that maybe Larry wasn't as supportive of Connor because, you know, he's not his biological father.

[56:46] Evan is watching all, all this happen and he's starting to feel real bad.

[56:50] So you know what he does?

[56:51] He makes it about him.

[56:52] He's like, Hey guys, I was just lying.

[56:55] I was just lying.

[56:55] Feel better now.

[56:56] It's fine.

[56:57] I was lying.

[56:58] You don't need to feel bad no more.

[57:00] Well, I don't know if that's making it about him as much as taking responsibility.

[57:03] He's like, guys, let me level with you.

[57:04] This was a goof.

[57:05] This is all a good goof.

[57:07] I mean, I feel, I feel like, I don't think that's necessarily him taking responsibility.

[57:11] I think that's him trying to, uh, that's him trying to, uh, evade conflict.

[57:17] Like he is trying to make them feel better by like, he is not trying to, he, I mean, it's not a, it's not like his courageous move.

Dan McCoy

[57:26] No, no, no.

[57:26] Well, I'm not giving him any credit.

[57:28] I'm just saying that I think at this point he sees like, okay, my actions have had negative consequences in a way that I should have been able to anticipate, but didn't.

[57:37] And so I have to do something to avoid this family from like eating itself.

[57:42] And, but the thing is like, this is all done in.

Elliott Kalan

[57:45] Wait, Dan, are you saying you wouldn't watch a movie called The Family That Eats Itself?

Dan McCoy

[57:48] I would love that movie.

[57:49] But like the funny, the thing to me for this scene was like, this is all done.

[57:53] This like long shot on Evan Hansen, again, singing to this family as they're at this table.

[57:59] And then like, it's all on him.

[58:01] And then they do a cut back to the family and stunned silence.

[58:05] And I was like, anything that was moving about that has been taken away because it is such a comedy cut to go back to all of them.

[58:13] Like, it's a real record scratch of an edit.

Stuart Wellington

[58:17] And so, of course, it doesn't go well.

[58:19] The family want him out of there.

[58:21] The next day at school, he runs into Zoe and he's like, why didn't you guys post about it?

[58:26] And she's like, yeah, we didn't want to deal with it.

[58:28] Like, it's not about you, dude.

Elliott Kalan

[58:30] Well, she says, my mom doesn't want the truth to come out because she's worried that if you get blamed for this, you're going to hurt yourself.

[58:37] Like, so his mom does not want the cycle to continue.

[58:40] So they're willing to be the villains of the world on the internet if it means that the noble and precious Evan is okay.

[58:49] Which is one of those, like, that decision adds complexity to Amy Adams' character, I feel like, in a big way.

[58:58] But it's really like, but it also feels like the movie is in many ways set up to get Evan off the hook as much as possible and keep him from facing consequences about what happened.

[59:10] And that is one of those moments, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[59:12] And then Evan's at home.

[59:14] He finally talks to his mom about it.

[59:16] He explains that he didn't hurt his arm as an accident.

[59:22] It was a failed suicide attempt.

[59:26] And then his mom sings him a song to make him feel better.

[59:30] And then Evan, go on.

Dan McCoy

[59:33] I just want to pause because, you know, I do like to highlight when, like, the movies work for me.

[59:39] Just so I'm not a jerk all the time.

[59:41] Only 99% of the time.

[59:44] Julianne Moore, obviously, a wonderful actor.

[59:47] And, you know, she has this one song here.

[59:50] And it's one of the parts of the film I found genuinely moving.

[59:54] Her singing her song about how she'll always be there for him.

[59:58] And, like, giving him comfort when he's, you know, admitted to finally, not just to the bad things he's done, but also how lost he had felt that she didn't know.

[1:00:12] And, you know, she's very strong, I think, in a movie that doesn't deserve her.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:17] And she's not in it much.

[1:00:19] Like, she makes a fair amount out of a small role.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:23] Yeah.

[1:00:23] I mean, Julianne Moore is, I think, is by far the best performance in the movie.

[1:00:29] And maybe it's just because it isn't those small portions.

[1:00:32] But, like, she's playing her character so much more real than anyone else is playing their character.

[1:00:36] Like, Amy Adams' character is, like, kind of a, is so, is so in denial, kind of blank, that it becomes almost, like, inhuman at times.

[1:00:49] And Evan Hansen, we talked about what the issues are with that.

[1:00:52] But I think, like, but Julianne Moore, I feel like when she's on screen, it's like, oh, I'm seeing, like, a real person who's interacting with, like, with characters, you know.

[1:01:00] Yeah.

[1:01:00] And that song is, I will admit that that song that I felt really touched by at first, and then it goes on for a very long time.

[1:01:06] Like, all the songs in the movie are incredibly long.

[1:01:09] Too long.

[1:01:10] But, like, this message of, like, there's nothing you can do that will stop me, where I won't be on your side.

[1:01:16] And, you know, you have to, and I had no idea, and I'm sorry about it, but, and all that stuff.

[1:01:21] Like, that was, it was like, oh, there's some, like, real emotions in this, as opposed to, like, some of the, like, teen melodrama emotions.

[1:01:28] You know, which are real feelings that people have, but when you have someone blasting them out at musical theater opera level, it comes off as, like, you know, false, you know, in my opinion.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:39] So Evan takes this, this inspiration.

[1:01:43] He immediately goes on Instagram and posts that it was all his fault.

[1:01:47] And then, and then he, then he tries to learn as much about Connor as he can by cyberstalking him.

[1:01:54] Creepy.

[1:01:54] Like a fucking psycho.

S3

[1:01:56] Creepy.

[1:01:56] Still creepy.

[1:01:57] Didn't learn anything.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:58] Yeah.

[1:01:59] And through his internet Scooby-Doo work, he finds a video of Connor playing guitar, which he then shares with the family.

[1:02:09] Uh, and they, you know, they're touched by it because they didn't have, uh, they had very few, uh, positive memories of their dead son.

Dan McCoy

[1:02:16] Yeah.

[1:02:17] And he never would play songs for him.

[1:02:18] This was another thing that I found moving, not because of the movie, but, uh, because of the goosebumps thing that Elliot has talked about.

[1:02:24] Like if this was a situation in real life, I would find it moving.

[1:02:27] So I mapped that onto the film.

[1:02:30] Although I did wonder, like.

[1:02:32] That's all you can do sometimes.

[1:02:32] Yeah.

[1:02:33] Who, who, who in this group therapy was filming him play this song?

[1:02:37] That was, seems like a breach of.

S3

[1:02:39] The first rule of AA.

[1:02:42] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:43] You don't usually record it for your archives.

[1:02:45] The like group therapy sessions at rehab.

[1:02:47] But I mean.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:48] I mean, I can only assume based on, on other behavior in this film was that Connor was fucking up real bad.

[1:02:54] And some shithead was like, this is going to be hilarious for me to put this, uh, yeah, this fail.

[1:02:58] And he inadvertently played a beautiful song.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:01] Yeah.

[1:03:01] This guy was, this guy got to group therapy and you won't believe what he did next.

[1:03:07] But I, I, I feel like that there's so much this movie is asking me to buy into that I can't buy into.

[1:03:12] But the idea that someone would have been like, Hey, can I record the song?

[1:03:15] And he'd be like, okay.

[1:03:16] Like I can buy, I can believe that.

[1:03:17] You know, I'll buy that.

[1:03:20] Therapy fails.

[1:03:21] So then flash forward.

[1:03:22] As opposed to everyone, everyone in the world deciding they need to donate money in a, in a high school kid's name to, to rebuild an, uh, an orchard, which they're like, we need to create the Connor project.

[1:03:34] The Connor project is going to be a beacon of hope for everyone who's depressed out there.

[1:03:37] Orchards.

[1:03:38] That's where it's in.

[1:03:39] Yeah.

[1:03:40] People need one local orchard.

S3

[1:03:42] We don't need to, you know, work on suicide prevention or mental health issues.

[1:03:47] We'll just make an orchard.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:49] We just got to get an orchard together.

[1:03:51] This place that, uh, if we can make an orchard out of leaves.

[1:03:56] I brought it back.

[1:03:57] Yeah.

[1:03:58] Every, nice one.

[1:03:59] Nice one.

[1:04:00] Everyone's like, it was Connor's favorite place.

[1:04:02] And most of that seems to be based off of Evan's story.

[1:04:06] So I don't know.

[1:04:06] Like the family went and had picnics there, but we don't really know that Connor really liked it very much.

[1:04:11] If he's in, if he's anything like my kids, he hates to go outdoors and go places with his family.

[1:04:15] So it's, they're like, it was Connor's favorite place.

[1:04:18] And I'm always like, based on what?

[1:04:19] I don't understand.

[1:04:20] Nothing about his character diamond as laid out in this film includes loves orchards.

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:28] So speaking of the orchard, uh, our final scene, we have, uh, we have Evan Hansen and Zoe walking around in that orchard.

[1:04:36] Uh, they're talking a little bit about their future, what they're going to do next.

[1:04:40] Uh, and Zoe says some wild shit about how she wishes she'd met him now after he'd gone through all this character building.

[1:04:48] And I'm like, I don't know, man.

[1:04:49] I don't think he's learned anything.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:51] And then the movie's over.

[1:04:53] His big point, they're like, how are you going to atone for all this?

[1:04:55] And he's like, I'm going to take a year off from college and get a job.

[1:04:58] I'm going to take a gap year.

[1:04:59] All right.

[1:05:00] I'm going to have a gap year.

[1:05:02] Probably travel around Europe, go to clubs.

[1:05:04] Really?

[1:05:04] Is that?

[1:05:06] So that's it.

[1:05:07] Dear Evan Hansen.

[1:05:08] Dear Evan Hansen.

[1:05:09] Evan writes another letter to himself, right?

[1:05:11] Does he write a letter to himself?

[1:05:12] I don't remember that.

[1:05:13] Yeah.

[1:05:13] At the very end, he writes another letter to himself.

[1:05:16] And it's like all the things that he was fake saying to himself at the beginning.

[1:05:19] Now he's really saying it.

[1:05:21] Today is going to be a good day because he's been through the crucible that was lying to everybody and mostly getting away with it.

Dan McCoy

[1:05:29] Let's roll straight into final judgment.

[1:05:31] Was this Dear Evan Hansen or Dear Evan Hansen?

[1:05:35] Yeah.

[1:05:38] Yeah.

[1:05:38] I'm not going to top that.

[1:05:40] I mean, let's just.

[1:05:42] For me, this was a bad, bad movie that was like almost made worse by like a few moments that genuinely affected me because I'm like, oh, okay.

[1:05:51] Well, that just throws the rest into sharp relief how like terrible some of this is.

[1:05:57] And like, look, I don't want to take anything away from anyone who found something meaningful in this.

[1:06:06] Like this is obviously my own opinion.

[1:06:08] And this is like going.

[1:06:09] This is dealing with a lot of heavy stuff.

[1:06:11] But I expect more if it's dealing with a lot of heavy stuff.

[1:06:14] I feel like there's a higher degree of difficulty to make it justified.

[1:06:20] And the movie, at least, I've not seen the show like just ladled it on so thick and did not seem to truly be able to grapple with the conundrums that it set up for itself in a way that just made me like deeply uncomfortable for most of the runtime.

[1:06:39] So I didn't like it.

[1:06:40] But what do you guys have to say?

[1:06:42] Elliot, maybe you.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:44] Yeah, I don't know.

[1:06:44] Yeah, it's it's it felt like I didn't like it.

[1:06:47] I didn't think it was very good.

[1:06:48] And much like when we when we saw the Dark Tower movie, I was like, this really makes me want to go back and read the books.

[1:06:55] So I know what was so interesting about them that someone wanted to go to the trouble of making this very mediocre movie of it.

[1:07:02] That like that I kind of made me wish I had seen the play so I could see what was in it that was powerful, that was lost in translation to film because watching it, it just felt like it felt like it was it was reaching for something really emotional and failing to get there at almost every moment, you know, aside from the one or two that we mentioned.

[1:07:23] And yeah, there's just a few baffling decisions in it.

[1:07:26] And I totally understand the like, I understand the motivation of like, this guy has an amazing performance on Broadway.

[1:07:33] We got to immortalize it on film so people can see it.

[1:07:36] But it doesn't always work out the best for film.

[1:07:40] And it was just the but it felt like a certain point I was I was like, I'm not sure what this movie is is.

[1:07:45] I don't know what this movie is saying to me.

[1:07:46] It's the songs don't get to me.

[1:07:48] They're just not my kind of songs.

[1:07:49] They all sound the same.

[1:07:50] I don't like the characters.

[1:07:52] And I don't know what I'm I don't know what the message is that I'm supposed to be getting from this, even as someone who should like I was saying earlier, should be sympathizing with the emotions this character is having.

[1:08:01] And should be like the the feeling of like, being a teenager who feels lonely and lost and doesn't know how to reach out to people and and doesn't feel seen and doesn't feel like anyone recognizes the value in them, but also isn't quite sure what about themselves is valuable and doesn't know how to show that to people.

[1:08:18] Like, that's all stuff that I felt.

[1:08:20] And but while watching this, I was like, get out of here.

[1:08:22] Come on.

[1:08:23] This is I don't think so.

[1:08:25] Like, it just it felt like watching someone who and I and maybe the people who made this went through all that themselves.

[1:08:32] But it felt like watching someone who felt that like when I was a kid and a lot of the popular kids in school were all into Catcher in the Rye when we read it in class.

[1:08:40] And they were like, this book really gets me.

[1:08:42] And I was like, no, it doesn't.

[1:08:44] This is like that's where we watched.

[1:08:46] We watched Harold and Maude in a class in high school and and seeing the popular kids being like, oh, finally movie that understands what an outcast I feel like.

[1:08:53] And it was like, no, you aren't like it felt like a movie made by those people, the people who like felt like they had been through it, but weren't really through it, you know.

[1:09:01] But I shouldn't judge other people's emotions.

[1:09:04] If they felt like outcasts, then they were probably outcasts, even though they were all football players and cheerleaders.

Stuart Wellington

[1:09:09] But that's the thing.

[1:09:10] Everybody feels like an outcast.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:11] Yeah, I guess everyone feels like an outcast no more than than Big Boy and Andre 3000 and the ultimate outcast.

[1:09:17] But it felt like the movie just felt very shallow.

[1:09:21] It felt shallow in a way that it was it felt it was deep, but it was not.

[1:09:25] And it was like the old anti-drug ad where the where the woman dives into the swimming pool and there's no water there.

[1:09:31] Like that's what that's what watching this movie felt like in a lot of ways.

[1:09:35] But Charlene, you loved it, right?

S3

[1:09:38] Well, let me get my notes.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:40] Oh, wow.

[1:09:41] We got to start from the beginning.

S3

[1:09:44] So, yeah, I felt like this movie deals with a lot of like important themes, you know, like growing up, feeling alone, feeling like no one understands you.

[1:09:58] You know, like he tried to commit suicide and nobody even cared, like nobody came to find him.

[1:10:05] And it should all be so touching.

[1:10:06] And then they wrapped it around this like horrible person of a character and some of my least favorite like plot devices ever.

[1:10:17] Like I can't stand when the story is wrapped around.

[1:10:22] If you would just tell the truth, the story would be over.

[1:10:25] And this is like one of the worst representations of that I've ever seen.

[1:10:30] And they treat it almost like a rom-com would treat that kind of thing.

[1:10:34] Like, oh, if he finds out that I'm the one that closed the factory, then he's never going to fall in love with me.

[1:10:39] And you're like, just tell him.

[1:10:40] Just tell him.

[1:10:41] But this is like so much worse than that.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:44] I want to know about this factory closing.

S3

[1:10:49] Right?

[1:10:49] That's a good story.

[1:10:50] And it just it made me it made me so mad.

[1:10:55] And so, yeah, I did not like I did not like the movie.

[1:10:58] I did not like the play.

[1:11:00] And I thought that if you took the songs out, some of the lyrics of the songs were really good.

[1:11:07] If you like wrapped these themes around a character that was deserving of this kind of.

Stuart Wellington

[1:11:14] So you're saying that Julianne Moore should have given up on Evan.

[1:11:19] Yes.

S3

[1:11:20] You're so terrible.

[1:11:22] Give up on him.

[1:11:23] He's bad.

Stuart Wellington

[1:11:26] There's.

[1:11:27] Yeah.

[1:11:27] I mean, you pointed this out.

[1:11:29] You suggested this while we were watching the movie that like it feels like it was written by somebody who doesn't have a lot of experience with friends.

S3

[1:11:37] Like doesn't know how friends work.

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:39] Well, that makes me feel like maybe the people who are working on it did know what those feelings are like.

[1:11:43] But they're trying to.

[1:11:43] They're like the problem is not that they don't know what that kind of depression is like.

[1:11:47] And they're coming at it from the outside.

[1:11:48] But they're so far inside that they don't know how the story would actually work if it happened in person.

[1:11:54] Maybe.

S3

[1:11:54] Like they didn't.

[1:11:55] Yeah.

[1:11:55] They don't understand the way like two high school boys would be friends because they didn't have friends.

[1:12:00] I don't know.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:02] Yeah.

[1:12:02] That was a problem I had too, Charlene, where it's like, I mean, I don't know.

[1:12:06] Audrey tried to convince me like, oh, you know, if you don't know what friends are, then like maybe this is your vision.

[1:12:11] But I'm like, I guess.

[1:12:12] But his like, like fantastic version of it, like the version he confabulates is so strange and so unrecognizable to me as like how two like boys in high school would be friends.

[1:12:23] That like, I don't know.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:25] It is.

[1:12:26] I mean, everything about it is everything about that.

[1:12:29] The scene where he's like singing about their friendship that his friend who is gay is making jokes about, oh, it sounds like your relationship is really gay.

[1:12:38] And it's like they're related.

[1:12:40] What he sings about does sound like a love relationship.

[1:12:42] Like it doesn't sound like he's like, yeah, we'd go sit and tell each other about all our fondest dreams.

[1:12:47] And then we're going to the amusement park together.

[1:12:49] And it's like, well, these are dates.

[1:12:50] You didn't do that with all your dudes?

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:53] I mean, I did go to amusement parks.

[1:12:56] Maybe you'd be a little more in line, Elliot.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:59] Okay, fair point.

[1:13:00] Fair point.

[1:13:01] Yeah.

[1:13:01] And when he's singing the song to Connor's sister about like, these are the things that Connor felt for you.

[1:13:08] But what he's really singing about is romantic love.

[1:13:10] It's, yeah, it feels like it's written by someone who is not, who is having trouble understanding how those emotions play out.

[1:13:16] Yeah, that's a good point.

[1:13:18] Guys, when I was younger, should I have gone to amusement parks more with my friends and told them all my fondest dreams?

[1:13:23] Probably.

[1:13:23] Yeah, of course.

Dan McCoy

[1:13:25] I mean, I think that in general, like if an amusement park is around, like it's a pretty good decision to go to an amusement park.

[1:13:31] But what if it's a haunted amusement park?

Stuart Wellington

[1:13:32] You might find one of those wish machines where you could get big and then have sex with an old lady.

[1:13:37] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:13:38] Did you say with an old lady?

[1:13:40] Or you could.

[1:13:41] Stewart.

[1:13:42] You could do what I.

[1:13:43] Is that the point of that movie?

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:45] I mean, but she's also.

[1:13:46] She's also.

Dan McCoy

[1:13:46] Bad little boy expression on his face.

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:49] But did you say old lady?

[1:13:51] Because she was almost certainly younger than we are now.

[1:13:54] Yeah.

[1:13:56] That's a good point.

S3

[1:13:58] You could do what I did as a kid and go to an amusement park with just your dad and have him like wave at you as you go by on those like motorcycle merry-go-round thing.

[1:14:07] I mean.

[1:14:08] Sounds like a nice day out.

Stuart Wellington

[1:14:12] Sounds fun to me.

[1:14:13] So you didn't give us final judgment, Charlene.

[1:14:15] Is this a good one, a bad one or a yummy one?

S3

[1:14:17] One more point.

[1:14:18] Yeah.

[1:14:18] Did you love it or what?

[1:14:20] I like the moment where the girl that was the president of all the different teams.

[1:14:26] Alana.

[1:14:27] Where she was like, you know, we all feel like that.

[1:14:31] You know, like you're not the only one that feels like they don't fit in or is depressed or like thinks high school is weird.

Stuart Wellington

[1:14:38] And I believe that's a song that was written for the movie.

Dan McCoy

[1:14:43] I don't believe it's in the show.

[1:14:45] I also like that moment when they're like, and they were like saying like, oh, you know, what, what antidepressants are you on?

[1:14:53] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:14:53] And the thing, the weird thing about it though, is by inserting that sequence relatively early in the movie, that's the sort of, that's the sort of revelation that a character like Evan Hansen would be like, oh, wait, everyone's a little bit like me.

[1:15:07] But it makes no effect on him because they're like, let's just stick this in the movie because it's actually good and makes sense.

[1:15:13] But it does not alter his behavior at all.

[1:15:16] Yeah.

[1:15:18] Yeah.

[1:15:19] I'm, so I'm going to say it's a bad, bad movie.

[1:15:22] I guess if you love musicals, maybe give this one a look, but I don't know.

[1:15:27] I'm not into it.

[1:15:32] Somewhere between science and superstition, there is a podcast.

[1:15:37] No!

[1:15:38] No!

Dan McCoy

[1:15:40] Look, your daughter doesn't say she's a demon.

[1:15:42] She says she's the devil himself.

S3

[1:15:44] That thing is not my daughter.

[1:15:47] And I want you to tell me there's a show where the hosts don't just report on French science and spirituality, but take part themselves.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:57] Well, there is.

[1:15:58] And it's Oh No, Ross and Carrie on Maximum Fun.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:01] This year, we actually became certified exorcists.

Stuart Wellington

[1:16:05] So, yes, Carrie and I can help your daughter.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:08] Or we can just talk about it on the show.

Stuart Wellington

[1:16:11] Oh No, Ross and Carrie on MaximumFun.org.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:16] I can't hear myself, but I'm assuming that.

Stuart Wellington

[1:16:19] These are real podcast listeners, not actors.

S3

[1:16:23] Hey, thanks for coming.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:25] Here's a list of descriptors.

[1:16:28] What would you choose to describe the perfect podcast?

S3

[1:16:32] I mean, vulgarity.

[1:16:34] Dumb.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:35] Definitely dumb.

S3

[1:16:37] And like, right here, this one.

[1:16:40] Meritless.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:42] What if I told you there was a podcast that did have all of that?

[1:16:45] No.

[1:16:46] Jordan Jesse Go.

[1:16:48] And it's free.

S3

Dan McCoy

[1:16:54] A real podcast.

[1:16:57] Okay.

[1:16:58] Let's talk about our sponsors.

[1:17:00] I mean, like all the shows on MaxFun, we are primarily sponsored by listeners like you.

[1:17:06] And thank you for being a MaxFun member.

[1:17:08] If you are, if you're not, maybe look into it.

[1:17:10] There's a lot of great bonus content.

[1:17:11] But we also have a few advertisers who are kind enough to sponsor us.

[1:17:17] One of them is Green Chef.

[1:17:19] Green Chef makes eating well easy with plans to fit every lifestyle.

[1:17:27] It's got fresh produce, premium proteins, and organic ingredients you can trust.

[1:17:33] Green Chef is playing it on the edge there.

[1:17:37] If I didn't have a nice foam guard for my microphone, that premium protein might have caused a lot of popping.

[1:17:45] But that's how confident they are in their proteins.

Elliott Kalan

[1:17:47] Is this an ad for your microphone guard?

Dan McCoy

[1:17:50] Green Chef is the number one meal kit for eating well.

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[1:18:10] I've used Green Chef.

[1:18:11] I have to admit, I like cooking a lot.

[1:18:15] And I can be a little snobby about this sort of thing and be like, you know, the meal kit.

[1:18:20] I don't want to do that.

[1:18:21] It's actually very good food.

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[1:18:55] And use code FLOPHOUSE130.

[1:18:57] Again, those are numerals at the end of Flophouse.

[1:19:00] To get $130 off plus free shipping.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:04] So you're saying you're not spelling out the words 130.

[1:19:06] You're not spelling out.

Dan McCoy

[1:19:07] Yeah, that would be a lot for an offer code.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:10] Save yourself some keystrokes.

[1:19:11] Just do it as numbers.

[1:19:13] Mm-hmm.

[1:19:14] This podcast is also sponsored by BetterHelp Online Therapy.

[1:19:18] We've talked about BetterHelp a lot of times on this show because they've been sponsoring us.

[1:19:22] And this month, according to the copy that's been prepared for me, we're discussing some of the stigmas around mental health.

[1:19:28] There's a lot of people who think that you should wait until you've got a really big problem that is throwing your life all out of whack before you go into therapy.

[1:19:37] But I find that is not the best way to use therapy.

[1:19:40] Therapy is something that you can use to keep yourself on balance and keep you from getting to the point where you are desperately in trouble and need it.

[1:19:49] For instance, in the movie that we were talking about today, Dear Evan Hansen, it's mentioned many times in it that he is missing his therapy sessions.

[1:19:55] And I think that he might have been able to at least get to a better place if he was going to those therapy sessions rather than making up lies about his classmates and presenting himself as someone he's not.

[1:20:09] Now, perhaps the fact is that maybe his therapist wasn't a good match.

[1:20:12] That happens sometimes.

[1:20:13] You just got to keep trying.

[1:20:15] Look, that's the worst part of therapy for me is having to find the therapist that I want.

[1:20:20] You have to try more than one often before you find one that really matches and who's right for you and that you can form that very special relationship where you can feel vulnerable for them and really open yourself up for them.

[1:20:32] And BetterHelp might be able to help you do that.

[1:20:34] I find therapy to be an invaluable thing for me and many of the people that I know because, if anything, it's good to have a space where you can just talk about yourself.

[1:20:44] And be open about yourself and not worry about what the other person thinks because you're paying them to listen to you.

[1:20:51] Unlike this podcast where I talk about myself all the time and I can see my co-hosts getting noticeably annoyed by that.

[1:20:57] So, BetterHelp is customized online therapy.

[1:21:00] It offers video, phone, or live chat sessions with a therapist.

[1:21:03] You don't have to see anyone on camera if you don't want to.

[1:21:05] That might help you open up.

[1:21:08] I don't know.

[1:21:08] It depends on who the person you are is.

[1:21:10] It can be more affordable than in-person therapy.

[1:21:12] You can be matched with a therapist in under 48 hours.

[1:21:15] Give it a try.

[1:21:16] See why over 2 million people have used BetterHelp online therapy.

[1:21:19] I would recommend some kind of therapy to just about anybody.

[1:21:23] BetterHelp may be the way that you find the therapist that is right for you.

[1:21:28] And unfortunately, you just have to keep trying to get – if you don't find the right person, you try again because therapy is worth that search.

[1:21:35] It's like marriage in a way.

[1:21:37] Maybe the first one isn't going to work out, but eventually.

[1:21:40] So, this podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[1:21:42] And Flophouse listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp with betterhelp.com slash flop.

[1:21:49] That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P dot com slash flop.

[1:21:54] Therapy.

[1:21:55] I recommend it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:21:56] Wow.

[1:21:56] Elliot, banger of a lead-in for this j-j-j-j-jumbo-tron.

[1:22:01] That's right.

[1:22:02] Video stream your next live event with Entertainment Unlimited.

[1:22:06] We cover weddings, bar, and bat mitzvahs, comedy specials, corporate events, and much more across the northeastern United States.

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[1:22:26] To get a free quote, visit euavp.com.

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[1:22:40] So visit euavp.com for event video live streaming services.

Dan McCoy

[1:22:49] Yeah, you can.

[1:22:49] It's easy to remember.

[1:22:50] You just remember European Union Alien vs. Predator.

[1:22:54] Dot com.

[1:22:55] It's a phrase I'm already thinking.

[1:22:57] I'm glad to finally have something I can go with.

[1:23:00] Let's do some letters from listeners.

[1:23:02] And by do, I mean I will read them and then we'll talk about them.

Stuart Wellington

[1:23:06] So there's nothing sexual about what you're going to do with the letters.

Dan McCoy

[1:23:09] Yeah, nothing.

Stuart Wellington

[1:23:10] I mean the shape of an envelope is kind of sexual.

Dan McCoy

[1:23:14] I guess that it opens?

[1:23:17] I don't know.

[1:23:18] Let's not go too far down this.

[1:23:19] Not the way I expected you to go, Dan.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:21] Not what I expected you to go.

[1:23:22] Anyway, I guess what we're saying is,

[1:23:24] Dear Flophouse, today's gonna be a great day.

[1:23:27] Or whatever they said in that dear Evan Hansen letter.

[1:23:32] Hey, dear Flophouse, you're writing this letter to yourself about all the things you want to hear in the letters today.

[1:23:38] I hope there's a letter about how much they like us.

[1:23:41] I hope there's a letter about riding a bike.

[1:23:44] I hope there's a lighter inside of the letter so I can light this cigar.

[1:23:52] Did I mention I'm into cigars now?

[1:23:55] That's right, I'm a cigar guy.

[1:23:57] Hanging out at cigar bars, reading that magazine about cigars.

[1:24:01] Everything cigars now on the Flophouse.

[1:24:04] Welcome to the Flophouse, a podcast about cigars.

[1:24:07] Until I lose interest.

[1:24:10] So guys, should we make this a podcast about cigars?

[1:24:12] I'm not really into cigars.

[1:24:14] I could get into cigars if we need to.

[1:24:16] I feel like that would be pretty cool.

[1:24:18] I've needed a reason to be in the same room as Alec Baldwin and Rudy Giuliani, so cigars are it.

Dan McCoy

[1:24:23] I thought you said moody Giuliani.

[1:24:26] Moody Giuliani.

Elliott Kalan

[1:24:27] That's what they say when he's being a grump around the office.

[1:24:30] They go more like moody Giuliani.

[1:24:33] And by office, I mean jail cell he'll be in.

[1:24:35] Oh, hell yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:24:37] Playing the hits there.

[1:24:38] Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

[1:24:41] You know what?

[1:24:42] That's a perfect lead-in to this letter, which is,

[1:24:46] Hi, peaches.

[1:24:48] Movies are inextricably linked to the politics in the time and place they're made.

[1:24:52] With the collapse of democracy in the U.S. about four to six years away,

[1:24:57] due to one party having a longing for a time that never existed

[1:24:59] and willingness to say anything to get the votes of the unaccountably large number of people

[1:25:03] with no empathy or understanding of consequences,

[1:25:06] and the other party being completely inept and confused about how government works,

[1:25:10] what do you think movies will look like in ten years?

[1:25:13] Are Kevin James and Mark Wahlberg on every screen?

[1:25:17] Do war movies take over the space that superheroes currently hold?

[1:25:21] Is there a strong reaction that grows a larger and more vibrant arthouse scene?

[1:25:26] Is there any chance that a movie could have a bikini car wash or Castle Freak in them?

[1:25:31] Jim, willing to trade last name for asylum.

[1:25:34] I mean, there's always a chance.

[1:25:36] I enter into every movie.

Stuart Wellington

[1:25:39] Could be a bikini car wash or a Castle Freak in one of these.

Dan McCoy

[1:25:42] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:25:42] Way to stay on base.

Elliott Kalan

[1:25:44] Jackie, starring Natalie Portman as Jacqueline Kennedy.

[1:25:47] Yeah, could be a bikini car wash in this.

[1:25:51] The hours.

[1:25:52] Yeah, probably Virginia Woolf has a bikini car wash in this movie at some point.

[1:25:56] Yeah, yeah.

[1:25:56] The lighthouse bikini and the lighthouse car wash.

[1:25:59] The waves are the waves of the car wash.

[1:26:02] So here's the, I think, ironically, the movies that are big right now,

[1:26:05] superhero movies and science fiction disaster dystopia and epics and things like that,

[1:26:10] are the perfect ones for the time we're living in right now.

[1:26:12] Yeah.

[1:26:13] When people have a real black and white understanding of the world and morality,

[1:26:17] and every single day is a battle between good and evil.

[1:26:20] And so many people want to believe that there's a hidden world beneath our own.

[1:26:24] That is the true reality.

[1:26:26] Blah, blah, blah, blah.

[1:26:27] So my guess is that in the future,

[1:26:31] the movies will actually probably have less to do with politics and more to do with

[1:26:34] the way that the streaming and theatrical models are built economically.

[1:26:38] So it's not as interesting as it would seem.

[1:26:42] But it's going to be much more about what movies will people subscribe to streaming services

[1:26:48] to get access to than about what's going on in politics.

[1:26:52] But I'm sure the content will in some way reflect it.

Dan McCoy

[1:26:55] Yeah.

[1:26:55] In so much as there will be politics in the movies,

[1:26:58] perhaps because of the liberal bent to many creatives,

[1:27:04] it will become more and more Adam McKay style strident satires that are basically making the subtext texts.

Elliott Kalan

[1:27:16] Satires that are meant for people who already agree with the message that the movie is presenting.

[1:27:21] Yeah.

[1:27:22] But you, I mean, it's, it's, the thing is, unless you live in a,

[1:27:26] that even though, even though so many creators have a liberal bent,

[1:27:30] the movie, the people who put the money to make movies have a capitalist bent.

[1:27:34] So they're going to do whatever, whatever they think they can make money on.

[1:27:37] And, but I think that I would be surprised if it turned into like,

[1:27:40] if we turned in, you know, it could happen.

[1:27:43] I'd be surprised if we turned into a country where like all the movies have to,

[1:27:46] have to support whatever the government is saying at that moment,

[1:27:50] even if democracy falls apart further.

[1:27:53] But at a certain point, it's just, there is just whatever speaks to people that can make money at the moment in which they can sell merchandise for.

[1:28:01] So who knows what that'll be?

[1:28:03] Probably some, it'll probably, you know what?

[1:28:05] Here's what, here's the cycle we're going to be in.

[1:28:07] Okay.

[1:28:07] Because our generation has proved that you cannot let go of anything in your childhood and you'll just make it.

[1:28:11] In 10 years, there's going to be like a Ben 10 movie and like a Blue's Clues movie.

[1:28:15] And that's the kind of stuff.

[1:28:16] The generation that watched that is now going to have disposable income probably.

[1:28:20] And they'll, and they'll want to see stuff that's gritty reboots of their childhood things.

Stuart Wellington

[1:28:24] A deepening of like IP stranglehold over, over the arts.

Elliott Kalan

[1:28:29] Yeah, until the last IP left is Uncle Ben from the Uncle Ben's Rice.

[1:28:34] And they try to make a movie out of him and it fails and they have to, they, they, and then Hollywood collapses and everyone wanders,

[1:28:41] their eyes hurting from the glare of the sun of original ideas as they wander into a wasteland in which only original ideas exist.

[1:28:49] And they have to reinvent the world again and find out what, what is an idea that nobody's ever thought of before.

Dan McCoy

[1:28:54] Now, is the Uncle Ben Rice movie also a Spider-Man movie?

Elliott Kalan

[1:28:58] It doesn't start out as one, but it will cross over when it comes to Uncle Ben across the rice verse.

[1:29:04] When he's, and the Uncle Ben from Spider-Man.

Dan McCoy

[1:29:06] Sure, you got wild rice and fasmati and arboreo and long grain and short grain all together in one film.

[1:29:14] And that crazy wild rice.

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:16] Yeah, yeah.

[1:29:17] There's going to be risotto Ben.

[1:29:18] Yeah, it's, it'll be all the different Ben's from the different rice universes.

Stuart Wellington

[1:29:23] Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[1:29:24] That sounds really exciting.

[1:29:25] Yeah, I mean, it's, it's just like, I, I, you know, the fear is that, uh, that it's just going to get more and more commercial and that the interesting small movies are going to continue to get pushed to the margins and budgets are going to be smaller.

[1:29:39] But who knows, maybe streaming services will help support our, our auteur cinema.

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:45] Yeah.

[1:29:45] I mean, there was also, there was a time when, when movie theaters had, you know, had kind of hot and cold running Westerns and TV screens had hot and cold running Westerns.

[1:29:54] And that was crowding out a lot of other stuff.

[1:29:56] And it all goes through cycles.

[1:29:57] I was wrong though.

[1:29:58] I said the last IP would be Uncle Ben.

[1:30:00] The last IP would actually be Ready Kill a Watt, the electricity mascot.

[1:30:03] That's the last character that will be adapted based on IP.

[1:30:07] We were, we were playing, we were playing Monopoly yesterday and, and Sammy, my older son, he goes, has there ever been a Monopoly movie?

[1:30:13] And I was like, Sammy, therein lies a tale.

[1:30:15] A tale of generations of development executives trying to develop a Monopoly movie.

[1:30:21] So funny.

[1:30:21] I want to hear this tale.

[1:30:22] Well, I mean, basically they've been trying to make a Monopoly movie and like Ridley Scott was going to direct it at one point.

[1:30:27] What?

[1:30:28] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:30:28] Is that, yeah, that's why he made that Getty movie instead.

Elliott Kalan

[1:30:33] He's like, I can't, I'll just take the script for the Monopoly movie instead of being Rich Uncle Penny Banks, it'll be J. Paul Getty.

[1:30:39] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:30:40] Okay.

[1:30:40] Well, here's our, our other letter for the episode.

[1:30:46] It is from first name withheld craft, like the mac and cheese.

[1:30:51] Okay.

[1:30:53] Dear Flophouse, on a girl's getaway, I met a woman who I nicknamed Gone Girl due to her exceptional resemblance to Rosamund Pike.

Elliott Kalan

[1:31:02] Because she had faked her own death and gone on the, gone on the run under an assumed identity.

Dan McCoy

[1:31:06] Upon telling my husband about this, he asked, did she cut a dude's dig off too?

[1:31:11] My jaw dropped as I realized my husband was following the mistaken footsteps of Stuart Wellington.

[1:31:16] I suggested.

[1:31:17] What?

[1:31:17] He was thinking of the scene in Gone Girl wherein, spoiler alert, Neil Patrick Harris gets his throat slit.

[1:31:23] And we also happened to see his ding dong.

[1:31:26] This leads me to believe there exists a phenomenon where, presented with a scene that includes ding dongs along with blood or gore,

[1:31:33] men will form a false memory of violence enacted upon said ding dong.

[1:31:38] A ding dong dela effect, if you will.

[1:31:41] I won't research paper and peer review forthcoming.

[1:31:48] I think you've already been asked about false memories of movies.

[1:31:51] So as an artist tired of being asked about NFTs, I'll ask, what will the Flophouse release as its first NFT?

Stuart Wellington

[1:31:59] Wow, I thought Dear Evan Hansen would receive the majority of my ire, but now it's going to be NF fucking Ts.

Elliott Kalan

[1:32:05] I think we're all on the same page of not wanting to ever be involved with NFTs, right?

[1:32:09] Yeah, I want everything to be as fungible as possible.

[1:32:11] I was going to say the same thing.

S3

[1:32:12] I think all your tokens need to be fungible.

Elliott Kalan

[1:32:15] I have a real issue with how, and maybe this is me being a Philistine, I don't know.

[1:32:20] I feel like I have an appreciation of art that people are like, this is the art of the future.

[1:32:24] And it's like really like a shitty cartoon of a monkey smoking a doobie is like, that's the art of the future.

[1:32:29] Like I've yet to see an NFT that was not just like a piece of crap.

[1:32:33] So, and pile that on top of the fact that it's bad for the environment.

[1:32:37] Like I'd rather not get involved.

Stuart Wellington

[1:32:38] Or the number of artists I've seen who have had to take down their public art pages

[1:32:42] because they keep getting notified that some asswipe is turning their artwork into NFTs.

Elliott Kalan

[1:32:49] Yeah.

[1:32:50] Like it sucks.

[1:32:51] It's the worst.

[1:32:52] The promise of blockchain-based technologies was supposed to be right that like you'd always have a chain of authorship.

[1:32:57] So you wouldn't need to keep a ledger and you wouldn't have things stolen.

[1:33:00] But all I hear about is people getting their bitcoins and their art stolen.

[1:33:03] Or like accidentally throwing them away.

[1:33:07] Yeah.

[1:33:07] It's like one of those things where the government builds a dam to provide water and it makes the river dry up.

[1:33:13] And they're like, well, we got to bring in water from another river.

[1:33:16] Like it seems like it's – so I guess our NFT would probably be like probably the house cat.

[1:33:21] Yeah, probably.

[1:33:22] It'd be a really cool house cat drawing.

[1:33:25] Like roller skating or whatever.

[1:33:26] Dan, you've got a real collector's impulse.

[1:33:28] Have you ever felt the urge to jump into the NFT market and collect links to images that you supposedly own?

Dan McCoy

[1:33:35] I have not.

[1:33:36] I will admit that my collector's impulse usually extends mostly to tangible things.

[1:33:44] Things that I can touch and have.

Elliott Kalan

[1:33:47] So anyway.

[1:33:49] Every time I see a thing where it's like new NFT is dropping, new NFT is dropping, and it's always like, okay, here's like a skull with a Nazi hat on.

[1:33:57] I don't really – and it's drawn poorly.

[1:33:58] Like I don't need that.

[1:33:59] This is not a thing I want to spend any money, let alone thousands of dollars on.

[1:34:03] Wow.

S3

[1:34:03] You guys mentioned the thing about sex workers and NFTs before?

Elliott Kalan

[1:34:07] I mean we haven't talked about it on the show.

S3

[1:34:08] Well, basically if sex workers aren't taking it as payment, it's not legitimate enough for me.

Stuart Wellington

[1:34:14] Yeah, and I think that's fair.

[1:34:16] Yeah.

[1:34:16] But would you – Dan, would you buy NFT pornography?

Dan McCoy

[1:34:22] Just so I could know that I was the only one getting aroused to this particular image?

Elliott Kalan

[1:34:27] Now you have a point.

[1:34:28] I guess there's something special about that.

[1:34:30] I mean I have yet to –

[1:34:32] The ultimate hedonism.

[1:34:33] No one has been able to explain to me how NFTs are different than pogs, which 30 years ago people just shoved whatever picture they could find onto a pog and sold it and people were buying it for a lot of money.

Dan McCoy

[1:34:44] But they're the pogs of the 22nd century.

[1:34:47] The 22nd century?

[1:34:49] Yeah.

[1:34:49] I'm putting us ahead.

Elliott Kalan

[1:34:51] Wow.

[1:34:51] Amazing.

[1:34:52] We're that much closer to the Duck Dodgers era.

[1:34:55] That's great.

[1:34:55] Oh, man.

[1:34:56] But yeah, so that's what you – you quote me on it.

[1:34:58] NFT is the pogs of the 22nd century, I guess.

[1:35:01] I guess quote Dan on it, but I would say 21st century.

[1:35:06] It's the future.

[1:35:07] I get it.

[1:35:08] Hey, I know you don't want –

[1:35:10] I just want to make it sound futuristic.

[1:35:11] I know you don't want this picture of Spawn, but what if we put it on a cardboard disc?

[1:35:15] Yeah, give it to me.

[1:35:16] I want it.

[1:35:19] A pog?

[1:35:20] Definitely.

[1:35:20] I'll take it.

[1:35:22] I remember as a kid buying pogs and being like, I guess I'm supposed to buy these now.

Stuart Wellington

[1:35:27] Yeah, I kind of feel – the way I felt about pogs, I kind of feel about Funko Pop stuff,

[1:35:32] and I know that kind of makes me a little grumpus, but it's the same sort of thing where I'm like,

[1:35:37] I don't need this in my life.

[1:35:39] I don't need a little statue.

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:41] I have so many ways to enjoy the things that I like that I don't need to own every single way of enjoying the things I like.

Dan McCoy

[1:35:47] Yeah, I think that that's – if that's your thing and you've made a commitment to like,

[1:35:53] this will be my thing, like that's one thing.

[1:35:55] I can understand being like, oh, I enjoy this character.

[1:35:58] I'll have it in like an action figure form.

[1:36:01] But as a man in his fourth decade of life who has acquired a bunch of like bullshit,

[1:36:07] like I don't need to have little statues of Doctor Who.

Elliott Kalan

[1:36:13] I really admire like and in some ways envy that sort of – that's kind of – it's like a –

[1:36:18] it's a very straightforward way of interacting with the world.

[1:36:21] We're like stuff I want put on my shelf.

[1:36:24] Done.

[1:36:25] Like it's – and I wish that I could interact with the world that straightforwardly sometimes.

[1:36:29] But I guess, you know what, it reminds me a little bit of my feelings about like Star Wars burlesque shows where it's like,

[1:36:38] look, I love Star Wars.

[1:36:40] I love women taking their clothes off.

[1:36:41] I've never felt the need to combine these two pleasures.

[1:36:44] Like I don't feel like one is not reinforcing or heightening the other by bringing them together.

[1:36:49] You don't feel like they were both created separately.

[1:36:51] It's a confusion of the two flavors.

[1:36:53] Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[1:36:54] I'm not – it's like I don't need to bring sexual arousal and like I love these aliens.

[1:37:00] That alien looks neat into the same moment, you know.

[1:37:04] It's not a Venn diagram that I need to be living in, I guess.

S3

[1:37:07] You made a good point that I didn't – it didn't occur to me that maybe NFTs are collectibles that you don't need to have the space for.

Elliott Kalan

[1:37:16] Oh, I think that's a big part of it.

[1:37:17] It's a big part of – well, there's a – I was reading a thing where they're talking about –

[1:37:21] we're getting way into – more into NFTs than we probably need to do.

[1:37:24] But like a – where do you think we're talking about the idea that this was somebody trying to push NFTs as a positive,

[1:37:31] saying on the – in the physical world, there are many ways to show your status, your shoes, your car, your clothes, your house.

[1:37:38] But in the digital world, it's unlimited resources essentially.

[1:37:42] So there's no way to show your status off.

[1:37:44] But with NFTs and their artificial scarcity, you can finally show people online how cool you are and how much money you are by wasting it.

[1:37:54] And it's like – I don't know.

[1:37:55] That doesn't seem like a – that seems like a negative more than a positive.

S3

[1:37:57] Not buy your picture on the top of a mountain from your dating app.

[1:38:03] Yep.

Stuart Wellington

[1:38:04] Charlotte's already planning her dating profile where she goes to the top of a mountain to get her picture taken.

[1:38:10] Under bio, it would say, no, nerds do not apply.

Elliott Kalan

[1:38:15] But the idea like the internet was sold to us as like here's a world where anyone can be whatever they want to be and we're all equal.

[1:38:21] Psyche.

[1:38:22] Sometimes we buy stupid, ugly pictures and it shows that we have more money.

[1:38:26] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:38:26] I mean it's – what was that fucking movie?

[1:38:29] Ready Player One.

[1:38:30] It's that kind of shit.

[1:38:31] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:38:32] When is Player Two finally going to get their chance?

Stuart Wellington

[1:38:35] I think they made a movie.

[1:38:36] They made that book.

[1:38:37] And by that, I mean the author.

Elliott Kalan

[1:38:39] Well, what about Player Three?

[1:38:40] I assume it's the old X-Men arcade game where like six people could play at the same time.

Stuart Wellington

[1:38:44] I thought it was four.

[1:38:45] Like the Ninja Turtles game.

[1:38:46] Oh, possible.

[1:38:48] Dan, which one is it?

Dan McCoy

[1:38:49] Well, I mean – but then you wouldn't have to wait.

[1:38:51] It's a cooperative.

[1:38:53] That's true.

Elliott Kalan

[1:38:53] It's a cooperative game you can all play at the same time.

[1:38:55] Oh, wow.

[1:38:56] Our theories are falling apart like a house of cards.

[1:38:58] Maybe I'm wrong.

[1:38:59] Maybe NFTs are great.

[1:39:00] Okay, let's move on to the next segment.

Dan McCoy

[1:39:01] The next segment is recommendations of movies that we liked.

[1:39:06] Do you think they –

[1:39:07] Wait a second.

Stuart Wellington

[1:39:07] Do you think they named the show House of Cards predicting that Kevin Spacey was going to get called out so that it would fall apart?

[1:39:15] Like its name?

Dan McCoy

[1:39:20] Probably.

[1:39:20] Oh, wow.

[1:39:20] Yeah, I think that's probably what happened.

[1:39:24] File that away with the Bobcats theory.

[1:39:30] Recommendations.

[1:39:31] Movies that we liked, that we saw recently or you don't have to see it recently.

[1:39:35] Just something you can recommend.

[1:39:36] I saw –

[1:39:37] Thanks for loosening the rules a little bit, Judge Dan.

[1:39:41] Judge McCollett.

[1:39:42] Thanks for letting me off the leash.

[1:39:44] I'm going to take my sad tie off.

[1:39:47] I saw at probably the last possible moment that I as a triple vaccinated guy felt comfortable seeing something in the theater before sort of quarantining again.

[1:39:59] I saw Nightmare Alley, which I mentioned earlier in the episode.

Elliott Kalan

[1:40:04] That was a little bit of – that was an Easter egg for people who waited until the end of the episode.

Dan McCoy

[1:40:08] It had the misfortune to be a movie released during Omicron that was not Spider-Man and thus people have not been seeing it.

[1:40:19] And I wouldn't recommend you risking your life to go out right now.

[1:40:24] But I did enjoy it, Nightmare Alley.

[1:40:28] Guillermo del Toro doing a film without a supernatural element but still sort of harrowing in its own way.

[1:40:38] A remake – well, not a remake of a film so much as it's another adaptation of the novel Nightmare Alley.

[1:40:46] A noir story about a man who works in a circus sideshow and a lot of noir-y things that follow from there.

[1:40:58] It is a little too glossy for the genre, I would say.

[1:41:03] Like the Guillermo del Toro has his sort of thing where like it all looks very beautiful.

[1:41:10] It all looks like sort of painted covers to a pulp novel.

[1:41:14] And with the seedy story, it kind of keeps you at a distance.

[1:41:20] It's like it's a little too polished but it is still really great.

[1:41:26] The performers are all good in it.

[1:41:30] I particularly, I think, liked Willem Dafoe as a sort of totally amoral Kearney.

[1:41:38] And, you know, if you like this kind of thing, it was a lot of fun.

[1:41:44] Sometimes, you know, I had the fear that it would feel too much like he was just playing in a genre rather than like deeply feeling it.

[1:41:54] It only had a little bit of that.

[1:41:56] It was a good, fun movie, Nightmare Alley.

[1:42:01] Charlene, you got one?

[1:42:02] I got one.

S3

[1:42:04] I recently saw a little movie called House of Gucci.

[1:42:11] Oh.

[1:42:12] And I'm not making fun of Italian accents.

[1:42:15] I'm making fun of actors portraying Italian accents.

[1:42:21] It was a based on a true story about a couple.

[1:42:30] Uh-huh.

[1:42:31] Yeah.

[1:42:32] I'm like, now I have to remember the plot of the movie.

[1:42:34] A Gucci couple?

[1:42:35] You don't have to remember it too well.

Elliott Kalan

[1:42:36] You can just say what you liked about it.

[1:42:38] Yeah.

[1:42:38] Just say that you liked it.

[1:42:39] You don't have to do a whole episode.

S3

[1:42:40] Oh, good.

[1:42:41] I loved the outfits and the hair.

[1:42:44] Uh-huh.

[1:42:45] I loved the two actors portraying Al Pacino.

[1:42:50] Al Pacino and Jared Leto.

[1:42:53] And I thought Lady Gaga did an amazing job.

[1:42:58] Was that an authentic Italian accent?

[1:43:01] No.

[1:43:02] Was it the exact accent that I needed it to be?

[1:43:05] Yes.

[1:43:05] It was perfect.

[1:43:06] And go see it.

[1:43:09] Or if you're not going, then, well, I guess not available yet, right?

[1:43:14] It'll probably be available.

[1:43:15] It'll be available soon, I'm sure.

[1:43:17] So I thought it was hilarious.

[1:43:20] And probably I didn't feel about it the way the makers of the film wanted me to feel about it.

[1:43:25] But I really enjoyed it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:43:28] Oh, so Gucci.

[1:43:29] Okay.

[1:43:29] I'm going to recommend a movie that I saw as a screener.

[1:43:35] I don't know if it's available.

[1:43:36] For watching anywhere.

[1:43:38] It's a movie called The Worst Person in the World.

[1:43:42] It's a Norwegian movie about a millennial woman.

[1:43:46] And it just kind of follows her for a couple of years of her life.

[1:43:50] And mainly focuses on a relationship, a key relationship she has.

[1:43:59] And the movie manages to perfectly capture a lot of my feelings about getting older, about relationships, about art, about nostalgia.

[1:44:14] And it's this beautiful, relatable, funny, sad movie that just fucking wrecked me.

[1:44:22] So if you get a chance, you should totally check out The Worst Person in the World.

[1:44:27] And that's also a callback to earlier in the show because there's a lot of talk about a cartoon character named Bobcat and how he's been neutered by removing his butthole.

[1:44:36] So if you get a chance, check out The Worst Person in the World.

[1:44:39] It's great.

Dan McCoy

[1:44:40] By removing his butthole?

Stuart Wellington

[1:44:42] Yeah, it's about an underground cartoon character who basically gets Disney-fied.

[1:44:48] And I would say the least believable thing about the movie is about how clean and nice the apartment of a 40-year-old underground cartoonist's apartment is.

Dan McCoy

[1:45:00] All right.

[1:45:01] So it's a metaphorical neutering.

[1:45:03] Yeah, metaphorical.

[1:45:03] Because you don't neuter a cat by removing its butthole.

[1:45:06] You don't?

[1:45:07] Uh-oh.

[1:45:09] Don't remove a cat's butthole.

Elliott Kalan

[1:45:11] This would explain the lawsuits against my vet office.

S3

[1:45:15] As an owner of Cats, they are very proud of their buttholes and would be really upset to have them removed.

[1:45:21] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:45:22] There's a reason why they added them to Cats the movie.

[1:45:25] Yeah.

[1:45:26] Elliot, you're the last one.

[1:45:28] Take us home.

[1:45:29] Finally, the last one.

[1:45:30] I'm going to recommend a movie that I think Dan is going to love based on the title, but which the title is a little misleading.

[1:45:36] This is a British television play from the 60s called The Year of the Sex Olympics, which is set in the future when it's kind of a very 1984 type story.

[1:45:47] There's two types of people in society.

[1:45:49] There's high drives who are allowed to have careers and have sex and enjoy the good life.

[1:45:54] And low drives, which are the massive people who are kept from overpopulating through television control.

[1:46:01] Basically, they realize that if you air things on television for them to watch, it takes away the motivation to actually do it.

[1:46:07] So they're running something called the Sex Olympics, which is this campaign that is involved a show called Sports Sex and a show called Art Sex, which are meant for people to watch it and then not do it, basically, in order to keep the population down.

[1:46:21] And one of the people involved in the programming, he starts to doubt the situation that he's in, and he wants to escape from this world.

[1:46:29] So he agrees to be the star of a new show called The Live Life Show, or The Live Life Show, where he and his family are going to go live on a windswept aisle, kind of as people did hundreds of years before this society came about.

[1:46:45] And a lot of people talk about how it basically predicted reality television in a lot of ways.

[1:46:52] But even beyond that, I thought it did a really good job of kind of interrogating why we watch stories to begin with.

[1:46:59] There's this idea in it that – and the characters speak in this very future-y language where they're missing words, where it's half futuristic and half caveman.

[1:47:06] But basically, like, you see an emotion, you feel the emotion, but you don't feel the bad parts of the emotion, and you laugh and feel better.

[1:47:14] And kind of the idea that – and it kind of digs into the idea for me about how even when we're watching fictional characters, we are getting a sort of pleasure from watching them go through bad things, partly through the relief of us not being the one going through it.

[1:47:26] But we're able to vicariously feel those emotions.

[1:47:29] And in the movie, they're asking kind of what responsibility do people have for each other.

[1:47:32] But it made me think about what responsibility do we have to our characters and stories that we're telling, you know, not to be cavalier with them, things like that.

[1:47:39] But it's – unfortunately, it was originally broadcast in color, but all that exists is a black and white version of it.

[1:47:44] But it still looks really neat, and I thought it was really good.

[1:47:47] It's available on YouTube in its entirety, but I think it's also on DVD.

[1:47:50] And a very young Brian Cox is in it as the kind of meanest and jerkiest of the programmers of these TV programs.

[1:48:00] But the other performers are all real good.

[1:48:02] It's written by Nigel Neal, who's best known for stuff like the stone tape, kind of like supernatural stories that were on British television.

[1:48:08] This is not supernatural.

[1:48:10] But, you know, it's a 1984 dystopia type thing, and I thought it was really good.

[1:48:13] It's called The Year of the Sex Olympics.

[1:48:16] Ask for it by name at your local Sex Olympics store.

[1:48:20] Sounds great.

[1:48:20] Sounds like you made it up, Elliot.

Stuart Wellington

[1:48:22] I feel like I'd be embarrassed to ask for it by name.

[1:48:25] Well, this was a blast.

[1:48:26] We talked about a heavy movie that was not very much fun, but I had fun getting to talk to you guys about it.

[1:48:32] I know it's the day after Christmas, so that's a holiday that Dan and I celebrate.

[1:48:37] Elliot and Charlene being Jewish, I know that isn't as big of a deal for you.

[1:48:42] Boxing Day is a huge deal in this house.

Elliott Kalan

[1:48:44] It's not the idea that, like, I'm Jewish, so I'm only like, I only celebrate half of Christmas, you know.

[1:48:50] My day yesterday was a frantic search for things to do when it was one of our rare rainstorms in LA and nothing was open anywhere.

[1:48:58] So even, like, the Chinese restaurants have started closing on Christmas.

[1:49:01] This is not a tenable situation, everybody.

[1:49:05] There is no way we are going to make dinner on Christmas.

[1:49:07] We're going to have Chinese food.

[1:49:08] We've got to find it.

[1:49:09] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:49:09] I'm sorry that the birth of my Messiah put you out, Elliot.

Elliott Kalan

[1:49:13] It is a huge inconvenience.

[1:49:15] And I got to believe that when God set it all up, he was like, teehee, let's see Elliot deal with this one in 2,000 years.

[1:49:23] He's a trickster.

[1:49:24] But I hope you guys did have a Merry Christmas.

[1:49:27] Thank you.

Dan McCoy

[1:49:28] I hope you will have a better day.

[1:49:32] I don't know.

[1:49:33] No, I am already.

Elliott Kalan

[1:49:34] Being Jewish, of course, I had a Merry Christmas.

[1:49:37] Merry Christmas being an accountant on the Upper East Side.

[1:49:44] That sounds really fun.

Dan McCoy

[1:49:46] Borscht belt joke.

[1:49:50] We'd like to recommend you.

[1:49:51] But I've got to get into my mother-in-law material.

[1:49:55] Go over to MaximumFun.org and check out all the great podcasts there.

[1:49:59] Stuart, you have something you want to say?

[1:50:00] Yeah, Char.

Stuart Wellington

[1:50:00] Do you have anything you want to?

[1:50:01] Charlene, thank you for being our guest.

[1:50:03] You've been lovely.

[1:50:04] Oh, thank you.

[1:50:05] I'm glad that we gave you an opportunity to vent some of your Evan Hansen issues.

S3

[1:50:09] I feel so much better now that I've gotten that out.

Stuart Wellington

[1:50:11] Do you have anything you'd like to plug?

S3

[1:50:13] Oh, so many things to plug.

[1:50:16] We got Minnie's Bar, which was closed for a few days due to COVID safety.

[1:50:24] And we'll reopen tomorrow.

[1:50:29] That's in Sunset Park.

[1:50:30] We got Hinterlands, which is open and will all be open for New Year's, you know, hopefully.

[1:50:38] I think we will.

[1:50:39] And my podcast, I Know the Owner, will be coming back next year.

[1:50:45] So look out for that.

Stuart Wellington

[1:50:47] And that's a podcast where bar people talk bar stuff.

S3

[1:50:50] Yes, bar people talk bar stuff.

[1:50:52] And I'll be getting some new guests.

[1:50:54] What?

[1:50:54] And hilarity will ensue.

Stuart Wellington

[1:50:56] That sounds great.

[1:50:57] And also, thanks to Alex Smith for producing this podcast.

[1:51:04] Yeah.

[1:51:05] Thank you, Alex.

[1:51:08] For the Flophouse, I've been Sean Willis.

[1:51:09] Dan, was that sarcastic?

Dan McCoy

[1:51:12] No, no.

[1:51:12] I appreciate it.

[1:51:13] I don't like doing it.

[1:51:15] Okay.

[1:51:15] Well, yeah.

[1:51:16] And for the Flophouse, I've been Dan McCoy.

Elliott Kalan

[1:51:18] And I'm Elliot Kalin.

[1:51:19] And joining us has been Charlene Wellington.

[1:51:23] Bye.

[1:51:24] Bye.

[1:51:32] Cinnamon is his first and favorite love.

[1:51:36] Oh, man.

[1:51:37] He's fucking crazy about that shit.

Stuart Wellington

[1:51:38] Yeah.

[1:51:39] He just loves it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:51:40] He's a real cinnamon man.

Stuart Wellington

[1:51:43] I have this cinnamon farm that is going to be paying for my retirement.

[1:51:49] I guess I'll leave David Kalin to watch over it.

[1:51:51] Oh, no.

Dan McCoy

[1:51:55] He ate all the cinnamon.

[1:51:56] It's all gone.

Elliott Kalan

[1:51:59] I just finally hired a security guard for my cinnamon vault.

Dan McCoy

[1:52:04] I mean, that would be very impressive if he could get like a cinnamon.

[1:52:09] It's hard to eat in large quantities.

[1:52:11] I mean, particularly on a farm.

Elliott Kalan

[1:52:12] Well, that's the thing is he takes a little bit at a time.

[1:52:14] So you don't notice it's going until it's too late.

[1:52:16] Yeah.

[1:52:17] Oh, okay.

[1:52:18] It's not like a one-night cinnamon binge.

[1:52:20] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:52:22] He's not like some cereal mascot.

[1:52:24] Yes, a swarm of tiny David Kalin swarmed over the cinnamon fields.

[1:52:28] No, my cinnamon.

[1:52:29] Yeah, that's one of the plagues, right?

[1:52:30] One of the biblical plagues.

[1:52:34] Gentlemen, gentlemen, ladies, my fellow Americans,

[1:52:36] we face a dire toast crunch emergency.

[1:52:41] Maximum fun.

[1:52:43] Maximum fun.org.

[1:52:44] Comedy and culture.

Dan McCoy

[1:52:45] Artist owned.

[1:52:46] Audience supported.

Ep. #359 - Dear Evan Hansen, with Sharlene Wellington

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