FH Mini 47 - The Netflix RomCom Cinematic Universe, with Scott Meslow

Stuart Wellington

[0:00] Okay, I'm going to nail it.

[0:04] Hey, this is the Flophouse Mini, a mini episode of the popular hit podcast, The Flophouse.

[0:11] Now, normally on The Flophouse, we review a bad movie that we have recently watched,

[0:15] but tonight we're doing a mini where we're going to do whatever we want.

[0:18] And for tonight, I am your host, Stuart Wellington, and joining me are my other hosts,

[0:24] Dan McCoy.

[0:25] I'm Elliot Kalin.

[0:27] And we have a special guest tonight.

[0:28] That's right.

[0:29] We are joined by Scott Meslow.

[0:32] He is an author.

[0:34] He is my friend.

[0:35] He has a hot new book coming out titled From Hollywood with Love, The Rise and Fall and Rise Again of the Romantic Comedy.

[0:43] And it's coming out soon.

[0:45] Hooray.

[0:46] Scott, thanks for joining us.

[0:47] You created Meslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

Dan McCoy

[0:50] Dan, I'm so mad you got to a Meslow's Hierarchy of Needs joke before I did.

Elliott Kalan

[0:54] I've had that in my chamber the whole intro.

[0:56] That is the first time I've ever gotten that.

S3

[0:59] Unbelievable.

[1:00] It's crazy, right?

Elliott Kalan

[1:01] Now the only thing I can do is make a joke about Mesrow, the character from the Nexus comic books,

[1:05] which is not going to be as interesting for anybody.

[1:08] Now, that is the first time I've ever gotten that.

[1:10] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[1:11] Okay.

[1:11] So, actually, today's episode is going to be Elliot explaining who Mesrow is while we check our phones the whole time.

[1:20] Now, Scott, so thanks for joining us.

[1:22] What are we going to be talking about today?

S3

[1:24] Oh, I have such an exciting topic for us.

[1:27] We are going to dive into the Netflix Christmas rom-com cinematic universe.

Stuart Wellington

[1:32] What feed most underappreciated cinematic universe of all?

[1:37] The NFRCCU.

[1:38] I feel like Hallmark movies and Netflix rom-coms are probably covered exhaustively on a number of other great podcasts.

[1:46] But I think tonight we're going to add our own little spin on it.

[1:50] Oh, we're going to finally crack it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:52] Now, for the listeners at home, you can see Stuart's puckish eyebrow bounce when he said we'd put an hour spin on it.

Dan McCoy

[1:59] By the way, Stu, Stu lately has been calling his shots right before introducing the podcast.

[2:07] Whenever it's his turn, like Babe Ruth pointing to the stands, he's like, I'm going to nail it.

[2:12] And I got to give it to him.

[2:13] You kind of nailed it this time, Stuart.

Stuart Wellington

[2:16] Yeah.

[2:17] Oh, man.

[2:19] That is the kind of support that I never got from my dad.

[2:23] So thank you, Dan.

Elliott Kalan

[2:25] Oh, you're unnailing it.

[2:27] That nail is being pulled out by the episode of The Hammer.

Stuart Wellington

[2:29] Put it back in.

[2:30] Oh, no.

[2:31] Okay.

[2:32] So let's talk about this Netflix.

[2:33] So I think I've seen a couple.

[2:35] But what movies make up the Netflix Christmas cinematic rom-com universe?

[2:40] Well, how many hours do we have?

S3

[2:42] I think the important base here is we are on the Christmas.

[2:44] That's the wonder.

Elliott Kalan

[2:45] It's a mini episode.

[2:46] So we only have two to three hours.

S3

[2:48] Okay.

[2:49] I'll bring it down a little bit.

[2:51] I was planning on four.

[2:53] We have the Christmas Prince trilogy and the Princess Witch trilogy.

[2:57] And everything sort of revolves around these two very important universes that periodically collide.

Stuart Wellington

[3:03] Okay.

[3:03] So there's magic involved.

[3:05] Oh, yeah.

S3

[3:06] There is a character who is clearly implied to be Santa Claus, although they've never confirmed it.

Elliott Kalan

[3:10] Are they worried about getting sued by the owners of the Santa copyright?

[3:13] Yeah.

[3:14] Like this is a League of Extraordinary Gentlemen type thing where they can only hint at it?

S3

[3:17] I think Santa Claus, the movie, has had that locked down for a few decades.

[3:20] So it kind of gets around it.

Stuart Wellington

[3:22] It's just recently covered on the main feed of our podcast now.

[3:26] I haven't seen any of the Christmas Prince movies or what is it?

[3:30] The Christmas Witch?

[3:30] What's it called?

S3

[3:32] The Princess Witch.

[3:33] You were so close.

[3:34] The Princess Witch.

Stuart Wellington

[3:35] Oh, the Princess Switch.

S3

[3:36] I kept thinking you were saying Princess Witch and I'm like, that sounds fucking awesome.

Dan McCoy

[3:40] I also thought you said Princess Witch and I thought that sounded great.

[3:43] Christmas Wish and Princess Witch have a lot of, what is it?

[3:49] You know, when they've got like a similar consonant sound in the middle, I forget all my English vocabulary.

[3:55] These are all great pitches.

[3:56] I'm sure Netflix is listening.

[3:57] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[3:58] Now, I have a question.

[4:00] So what separates, what makes the Netflix Christmas rom-com universe different than the Hallmark rom-com Christmas universe?

S3

[4:07] Well, it starts with how incredibly interconnected they are.

[4:10] And unless I've missed something in the dozens of rom-com movies on Hallmark that my wife and I watched this year, I have never seen the level of crossover.

Dan McCoy

[4:18] I do see a lot of the same actors, but I don't think they're playing the same characters.

S3

[4:22] No, and that's the trick.

[4:24] Netflix has really hit on the solution here.

[4:26] And we do need to start at the beginning.

[4:28] So let me give you a brief summary of A Christmas Prince, which I'm going to level with you guys.

[4:34] Probably the most boring of these movies.

[4:36] Okay.

[4:37] But if you were making –

Elliott Kalan

[4:38] I mean, to be honest, the title of A Christmas Prince does not make me – it's not like I hear that and I'm like, excitement.

[4:44] That's not a name that launches a thousand ships.

[4:47] I got to see this.

[4:48] And I have to admit, I have been excited by the titles M and Z, which are only one letter each.

[4:54] So to have A Christmas Prince, it would not be interesting.

[4:57] It says nothing.

Dan McCoy

[4:57] There's so many options about what that movie could be about.

[4:59] Anything starting with an M or a Z in each respective case, you don't know.

[5:04] That's part of the mystery.

Elliott Kalan

[5:05] Fritz Lang's M is, of course, about monkeys.

[5:07] And Costa Gravis' movie Z is, of course, about zebras.

[5:11] So they're part of the Animal Kingdom cinematic universe.

[5:14] We can always pivot to that.

[5:15] But okay, Christmas Prince.

[5:17] What's this movie about?

[5:18] Who's this Christmas Prince?

[5:19] Why is everyone talking about him?

S3

[5:20] For starters, the title is very accurate.

[5:22] But I would say this movie is more like if you were making a really good sandwich and you need to start with the bread, just this boring, crusty, but solid base that everything else that gets crazy can build on.

[5:33] All of your meats and cheeses, they're coming later.

[5:35] This is a movie about the country of Aldo via.

[5:38] You may or may not have heard of it.

Dan McCoy

[5:42] I'm guessing that the situation in which you may have heard of it is if you've seen this movie.

S3

[5:46] Or in a sequel.

[5:47] You could have started with the second one.

[5:49] I don't know you.

[5:51] But this is a country that it's vaguely Western European.

[5:55] Its main export seems to be Christmas.

[5:57] They're being on jellied meat.

Stuart Wellington

[5:59] Did Ultron kill everybody in this place?

Dan McCoy

[6:03] That's for part four.

[6:04] It's all coming, I'm sure.

[6:05] Don't worry.

[6:05] And really, the Avengers bear a lot of the responsibility for that as well.

Elliott Kalan

[6:10] I mean, that's like saying the Democrats are responsible for voting rights not passing.

[6:13] It wouldn't have happened without Ultron.

[6:16] Don't blame the people.

[6:17] Who made Ultron in the MCU, not in the comics.

[6:20] Thank you.

[6:21] Well, I mean, it's still an Avenger that did it in the comics too.

[6:23] But just a different one who has yet to appear in the MCU because he is problematic.

[6:30] Who, Hercules?

[6:32] No, I guess Hank.

[6:33] Wonder Man?

[6:33] Right?

[6:34] That's who Michael Douglas plays, right?

[6:37] Yeah, he plays Hank Pym.

[6:39] Yeah.

[6:39] I just forget.

Stuart Wellington

[6:40] Although what's really weird is when they do flashbacks where he's like a young Michael Douglas,

[6:44] but his face doesn't look like young Michael Douglas' face.

[6:47] They like, because he had plastic surgery to remove his jowls.

[6:51] So in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, young Michael Douglas doesn't have jowls.

[6:56] And I'm like, what the fuck?

[6:57] That was part of his charm.

Elliott Kalan

[6:59] Yeah, that's why they used to call him Michael Jowls.

[7:02] But now they call him Michael Jowls.

[7:04] But anyway.

Dan McCoy

[7:05] Well, we've drifted from romantic comedies.

Elliott Kalan

[7:07] I want to know about this Christmas Prince.

[7:10] Because for me, there's just one Christmas Prince.

[7:12] His name is the Nutcracker.

[7:13] And he kills a rat that has like 10 heads.

[7:16] So is that the one in the movie?

S3

[7:18] I mean, you'll be happy to hear that that is clearly playing year-round in Aldovia, the Christmas country.

[7:22] Okay, great.

[7:23] But our main character is not the Christmas Prince.

[7:26] It is Amber Moore, intrepid young journalist for Beat Now magazine.

[7:30] And she has been sent to Aldovia from the mean streets of New York City.

Dan McCoy

[7:36] The magazine for people who want to beat something and want it done promptly.

Elliott Kalan

[7:38] Are you there?

[7:39] People?

[7:39] Beat later?

[7:40] No, thank you.

[7:41] People who want beats and they don't want to wait for them.

[7:43] Yeah.

S3

[7:45] Yeah.

[7:45] Clearly you guys don't subscribe.

[7:46] It's great.

[7:47] You're going to love it.

Stuart Wellington

[7:48] A lot of borscht recipes and stuff.

S3

[7:50] So she's been sent to cover the succession crisis in Aldovia.

[7:58] She decides she's going to embed as the nanny working for the prince's younger sister.

[8:04] This guy is sort of a, like, theoretically he's supposed to be like a Prince Harry type, like kind of a cool bad boy prince.

[8:10] But the movie doesn't actually want to make him unlikable or mean.

Elliott Kalan

[8:13] So he doesn't dress up like a Nazi at costume parties.

[8:16] No.

S3

[8:17] Deleted scene, I think.

[8:19] It's implied.

[8:20] Save for the bloops.

[8:22] He does wear a really gross fake beard to try to fool the press hounding him.

Stuart Wellington

[8:26] Oh.

[8:27] Been there.

S3

[8:28] So this journalist very unethically embeds as the tutor in the castle.

[8:33] Would you believe that they fall in love while she's reporting on him?

Dan McCoy

[8:37] I do.

[8:37] Based on the film My Tutor, I would say yes, I believe that.

Stuart Wellington

[8:42] Well.

[8:42] Yeah.

[8:43] Private lessons.

S3

[8:45] Exactly.

[8:45] Let me tell you, it is hot gossip in Aldovia.

[8:49] So it's a real bummer in this particular movie when it turns out that the prince has figured it all out.

[8:57] He casts her off from the kingdom.

[8:59] She goes back and writes a very kind of sad but beautiful story about how she's fallen in love with this prince and how he's secretly a great guy and no one understands him.

[9:09] You'll be shocked to hear her editors do not want to run this story.

[9:12] They consider it a puff piece.

[9:13] Rightly so.

[9:14] There's just no news value.

[9:16] There are multiple ethical problems here.

[9:18] I think the unsung heroes of this particular movie are the editors of Beat Now magazine.

Stuart Wellington

[9:22] I mean, keep in mind the New York Post ran an editorial today saying that dry January is selfish of people.

[9:31] Written by Stuart Wellington.

[9:33] Basically.

[9:35] By the way, go ahead and hit the Lance Barr.

[9:37] Yeah, I can't necessarily say it's right, but I'm not saying it's wrong.

S3

[9:43] So the important part to wrap up the most boring of all of these movies is that the prince reads the story on her blog.

[9:50] He thinks it's great.

[9:50] He comes and proposes to her in New York.

[9:52] They go off to be king and queen of Aldovia.

[9:54] So he killed his father.

[9:56] Yes.

[9:57] He's technically the prince, I think, at this point.

[9:59] But don't worry.

[10:00] They write him out quickly.

[10:01] We need to keep rising up the ranks here.

[10:03] Okay, great.

[10:04] One year later, we have the princess witch.

[10:07] Now, this movie is mostly a Vanessa Hudgens delivery system.

Stuart Wellington

[10:12] Okay.

S3

[10:12] This is what I've seen.

[10:13] This is what I've seen.

[10:15] Yep.

[10:15] In the first one, we get two Vanessa Hudgens.

[10:17] One of them is Stacy, who goes from Chicago to a different Western European country called Belgravia.

[10:23] Their chief export is also Christmas.

[10:26] And she's there for a baking competition and bumps into Lady Margaret Delacorte, who's the duchess of a neighboring kingdom called Montanaro.

[10:35] Okay.

[10:35] Also Western European, also Christmas.

Elliott Kalan

[10:38] Okay, now I'm starting to get into it.

[10:39] Because I like all the names of magical places.

[10:41] This is – this is – this is – these are all members of OKEC, the Organization of Christmas Exporting Countries.

[10:49] The politics are incredibly complicated.

Stuart Wellington

[10:51] I'm going to need to see a detailed explanation of the various heraldries of the different noble families.

[10:57] Do I have a wiki for you, Stuart?

Elliott Kalan

[11:02] Now, are these countries – are they modern-day nations or are they like Latveria, Dr. Doom's country?

[11:08] Yeah, is it like the savage land?

[11:09] Even though it's the 21st century, they're still all peasants.

[11:11] Or the savage land where there's dinosaurs running around.

S3

[11:14] Well, they all seem to be relatively modern constitutional monarchy except for one scene in The Princess Witch where she can send someone to a dungeon unilaterally and we never hear from that character again.

[11:23] Oh, no.

Dan McCoy

[11:25] If I would recall it correctly, they all – the towns in this place look kind of like what you would find in a snow globe.

[11:34] Yeah.

[11:34] Okay.

S3

[11:35] That's kind of where they are historically.

[11:36] So New York, Tony Statue of Liberty, you got it.

[11:38] Little Staten Island.

[11:39] Yeah, exactly.

[11:40] Or what you would find if you were shooting in Romania in the cheapest castle you could find.

[11:45] Hypothetically.

[11:47] So this is a movie about a princess switch, The Princesses Switch.

Elliott Kalan

[11:52] Okay.

[11:53] Now I understand the premise of The Prince and the Pauper where a prince and a poor person switch and they get different lives.

[11:59] If two princesses switch, how much actually changes?

[12:03] Stacey isn't a princess yet.

[12:05] Oh, okay.

[12:05] Okay.

[12:07] I hate to spoil the future installments of this franchise.

Stuart Wellington

[12:11] But it's in her five-year plan to get to princess level.

[12:13] But that's a little bit of a teaser.

[12:13] Yeah, she is merely a Chicago baker.

S3

[12:17] Dan, you've seen this one.

[12:19] You want to take it away?

[12:22] I like that.

Dan McCoy

[12:24] Whenever the princess.

[12:24] No, you got this.

[12:26] Dan, tell us.

[12:26] You're renowned for your great memory for movie plots.

[12:29] I don't know.

[12:29] Like, you know, there's a bunch of Prince and the Pauper shenanigans and they both fall in love with people on the other side of things.

[12:37] Uh-huh.

[12:37] You know.

[12:38] This is a great summary.

[12:40] You haven't forgotten.

S3

[12:41] The most important detail of this film.

[12:43] And the reason that we're talking about the Netflix Christmas rom-com cinematic universe.

[12:47] Because at one point, Lady Margaret sits down to watch a film on Netflix.

[12:51] And what film do you think that is?

Stuart Wellington

[12:53] Wait, she pulls up Netflix in the middle of the movie?

[12:56] Uh-huh.

[12:57] That's crazy.

[12:58] That's like.

[12:58] And it's the one.

[12:59] The other day, I was talking to somebody about how, like, have you guys ever, have you guys in a dream, have you ever looked at your phone?

[13:09] Have you ever looked at your phone in a dream?

[13:11] I had not up to the point of this conversation.

[13:14] And then the next day, I had a dream where I was looking at my phone the whole time.

Dan McCoy

[13:19] I think I've said many times on this podcast, or once or twice, who knows, that my stress dreams tend to be me trying to do something very simple and just being thwarted over and over again and, like, not being able to do it.

[13:32] And in a recent dream, it was like I had to text something to someone for an important reason.

[13:38] And I could not get my fingers to put the right words into the texting.

Stuart Wellington

[13:42] Oh, well, mine was like I couldn't pull up my vaccine information to show somebody.

Elliott Kalan

[13:48] Topical dream.

[13:49] I know.

[13:50] Topical nightmare.

[13:51] So, the queen pulls up Netflix, and I assume you're about to say is going to watch that movie where Charlize Theron is like a thousand-year-old assassin.

[13:58] Yeah, nailed it.

[13:59] You're so close.

[14:00] Yeah, the old guard.

[14:00] She's watching.

[14:02] Yeah, Mouse Guard.

[14:03] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[14:03] A Christmas.

[14:04] Mouse Guard.

[14:06] My struggle.

[14:07] Yeah, I get it.

[14:07] Yeah, Christmas.

Elliott Kalan

[14:09] It's a very loose adaptation of my struggle.

[14:16] So, she pulls up – is she watching Christmas Prince on TV?

S3

[14:19] She is watching Christmas Prince on TV.

Stuart Wellington

[14:21] And is it, like, motivator or is it just, like, an Easter egg?

S3

[14:25] It's an Easter egg.

[14:26] But it's an Easter egg that makes so much less sense.

[14:28] Or a Christmas egg.

Stuart Wellington

[14:30] An Easter egg in a Christmas movie?

[14:31] That's what I was going to say.

S3

[14:32] Easter egg?

[14:33] Yeah.

[14:34] All the holidays are covered here.

Stuart Wellington

[14:36] Okay.

[14:37] So, Christmas – how does the princess switch end?

[14:40] What's the ending of the first one?

S3

[14:42] The princess is each ending up with the other guy that the one knew.

[14:46] They sell.

[14:47] Stacy, our Chicago baker, becomes a princess marrying the prince who is betrothed to the

[14:52] Lady Margaret who marries the other baker.

Stuart Wellington

[14:56] So, it's like the holiday but with princesses.

[14:59] Yeah.

S3

[14:59] Okay.

[15:00] It is the simplest plot in the world and I could not have made that sound more complicated.

[15:03] Okay.

[15:04] They both end up with the other guy.

[15:05] Thank you.

[15:05] I swear at all –

Stuart Wellington

[15:05] I mean, to be fair, Dan didn't help.

[15:07] No, no, no.

[15:08] That's true.

[15:09] Okay.

[15:09] What's the next link in this chain?

Elliott Kalan

[15:11] Okay.

[15:12] So, now we've established a universe where the Christmas prince is a movie that exists

[15:16] in the princess switches reality.

S3

[15:19] We have established a premise that, spoiler alert, will soon be broken by later movies in

[15:23] this incredibly convoluted cinematic universe.

[15:25] Okay.

[15:26] Because now we're headed to the night before Christmas.

[15:29] This is a weird one.

Elliott Kalan

[15:31] Not the nightmare before Christmas.

[15:32] My younger son's now second favorite movie used to be his favorite movie.

Dan McCoy

[15:36] Oh.

[15:36] What's first?

[15:36] A Visit from St. Nicholas, the poem by Clement Moore.

[15:39] No.

[15:40] And not Silent Night, Deadly Night.

Elliott Kalan

[15:42] And not Silent Night, Deadly Night 2.

[15:45] Certainly not.

[15:46] So, for the record, my younger son's favorite movie is now Inside Out, of all things.

Stuart Wellington

[15:50] Oh, okay.

[15:50] I thought you were going to say The Inside Man.

[15:52] I'm like, that's a dope movie, kid.

Elliott Kalan

[15:53] It is a great movie.

[15:55] Yeah.

[15:56] He's like, Spike Lee really captures the feeling of post-911 New York, and yet it's still suspenseful.

Dan McCoy

[16:01] Not since the taking of Pelham 123 as a movie really captured the flavor of the city.

[16:05] And I'm like, yeah, I know.

[16:06] I know.

[16:07] I got it.

[16:07] My friend Ashley's in that movie.

Elliott Kalan

[16:11] Yeah.

[16:12] So, okay.

[16:12] This one's called, what was it again?

[16:14] The Night Before Christmas?

[16:14] The Night Before Christmas.

S3

[16:15] And you did ask the right question, because that is night with a K.

Elliott Kalan

[16:18] Because this is a time traveling rom-com.

[16:21] Oh.

[16:21] Nice.

[16:22] So, wait.

[16:22] It's a night in B.C. period?

[16:26] Yes.

[16:26] Before Christmas?

[16:27] Who arrives before Christmas.

Stuart Wellington

[16:30] And we're not talking about an Imperial Knight, a Titan Walker from the Warhammer 40,000 universe.

[16:36] Oh, no.

[16:37] We are.

[16:37] This is also Warhammer.

[16:38] You knew that, right?

[16:38] I mean, but that's long after Christmas.

[16:40] That's far in the future, isn't it?

[16:42] I mean, 40,000 years in the future.

Dan McCoy

[16:45] I mean, they celebrate it very differently by that point.

[16:49] But, you know, the general idea had staying power.

Stuart Wellington

[16:51] Are there any, Stuart, are there any Warhammer Christmas stories?

[16:54] I'm sure there are.

[16:56] I mean, I feel like as long as they somehow lead to people buying more Warhammer, it's part of the narrative.

Elliott Kalan

[17:05] Yeah, fair point.

[17:06] Fair point.

[17:06] So, okay.

[17:07] He's a knight.

[17:08] Is he going from the past to the present?

[17:10] Yeah.

[17:10] Like a Kate and Leopold?

S3

[17:11] Like the 14th century, he comes to modern-day Ohio to romance a woman named Brooke who is played by Vanessa Hudgens.

Elliott Kalan

[17:18] Okay.

[17:19] But not the same, not, she's, this is not one of the characters in the last movie.

S3

[17:22] It is neither of our previous Vanessa Hudgens, but given how many doppelgangers of her are running around, it may be some distant connection of some kind.

Elliott Kalan

[17:29] So there's some kind of Orphan Black type scenario going on in the NFRCCU.

S3

[17:33] I think of it as kind of like a being John Malkovich thing where just the more we add, everyone's going to have her face by like the 12th of these movies.

Stuart Wellington

[17:39] Yeah, Aphex Twin.

[17:40] The, so the, so he goes to Ohio because he wants what, like spaghetti with chili on top?

Dan McCoy

[17:48] Oh, my favorite.

[17:49] Yeah, put some cinnamon in there.

[17:50] Give it to David.

[17:52] Give it to David.

[17:53] He would love it.

Stuart Wellington

[17:55] Is there any real reason why he goes to Ohio or that's just part of the, like the time hijinks?

S3

[18:00] I'm going to be honest.

[18:02] I don't remember this one very well because it's very boring.

[18:04] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[18:05] Yeah, yeah.

[18:05] So the movie with a time-traveling night is the boring one.

[18:08] Uh-huh.

[18:09] Yeah.

S3

[18:10] There aren't enough antics yet.

[18:11] We haven't gotten to the Ocean's 11 one yet.

Elliott Kalan

[18:13] Okay.

[18:14] That's the one to get excited about.

[18:15] Then let's hurry.

[18:15] Then let's hurry because I've seen Time Traveling Nights, The Visitors with Jean Renaud.

[18:18] Let's go.

[18:18] Something else.

S3

[18:19] The real important detail here is that he mentioned at some point, or her sister mentions, that their grandparents went to Aldovia, the country from a Christmas prince.

[18:28] Okay.

[18:29] So following the transitive property, if I'm following this correctly, that means both of these movies are a movie within the Princess Switch universe.

[18:36] Okay.

[18:37] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[18:40] And yet, that brings us to the Princess Switch 2, Switched Again.

Dan McCoy

[18:44] Okay.

[18:45] So just back in the original position.

Stuart Wellington

[18:49] That's a spin of 360.

[18:52] That's where it starts.

Elliott Kalan

[18:53] How can a woman who came from Chicago and is now a princess deal with being in Chicago?

[18:59] Again.

[19:00] Again.

S3

[19:01] They stay in Martinaro in Belgravia, but they do, in fact, add a third Vanessa Hudgens, or a fourth if you count the one from A Night Before Christmas.

Dan McCoy

[19:08] Oh, okay.

[19:08] So it's just shifting one place now.

S3

[19:10] Now we have Fiona, a blonde Vanessa Hudgens, who's kind of like an evil socialite.

[19:14] She's great.

[19:15] You'd love her.

[19:15] I love this.

[19:17] So there's all kinds of shenanigans there.

[19:19] But the really important part of this is that when it comes to the end and Lady Margaret is finally going to be crowned Queen of Montanaro, there's a big coronation ceremony.

[19:29] And who would show up there but the Christmas Prince and Amber, thereby breaking the rules previously established in this cinematic universe.

Stuart Wellington

[19:38] So somebody like kid videoed them out of the Netflix and the TV.

Elliott Kalan

[19:43] Yeah, yeah.

[19:43] They, John Ritter, stay tuned them into the movie.

[19:46] Here's my fix for that.

[19:50] Get my no prize ready, guys.

[19:52] Here's my explanation.

Stuart Wellington

[19:53] This is an episode of Cinema Sins.

[19:56] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[19:57] Much like how in the Marvel Comics, there are Marvel Comics that exist in that universe and they are comic books being written about the real superheroes, but they're fictional adventures.

[20:07] The Christmas Prince that she watches is a movie that exists in that universe loosely based on the true story of the Christmas Prince who fell in love with a commoner.

[20:17] That's my explanation.

S3

[20:20] I was just about to argue with you and then I remembered this is a universe full of doppelgangers.

[20:24] So they found actors that look just like the real Christmas Prince and the real Amber.

[20:28] It does all make sense.

[20:29] Okay.

[20:29] You're filling in plot hole for me in real time.

Elliott Kalan

[20:32] The makeup that people can do now.

[20:33] I mean we all saw Jared Leto in House of Gucci.

[20:35] He was, you know, he was, he was, he was, he was no longer Jared Leto.

[20:38] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[20:39] He jumped right out of that Mario Brothers video game onto the screen.

Dan McCoy

[20:45] Guys, guys, I saw a play recently.

[20:48] I mean, you know, safely or safely as possible, but I saw a play recently.

[20:52] Good save, dude.

Elliott Kalan

[20:52] I was about to roast your fucking ass.

[20:55] Yeah.

[20:55] You weren't just running up on stage and licking all the performers.

Dan McCoy

[20:58] Yeah.

[20:58] But the star was Samantha Mathis and I was trying to explain to Audrey who she was, you know,

[21:05] and I started with your usual suspects.

[21:06] She, not the movie, the usual suspects.

[21:08] Yeah, she's not in the usual suspects.

[21:09] But, you know, like, I was like, you know, like, pop up the volume.

[21:13] And she's like, nope, nope.

[21:13] And then I was like, because of Super Mario Brothers doing the Super Mario Live show.

[21:18] She was like, oh, yeah, Samantha Mathis.

Elliott Kalan

[21:21] If only when you went to a play, they gave you, like, a little book that told you what the

Stuart Wellington

[21:25] people in the play were in.

[21:26] Uh-huh.

[21:27] Something maybe it was written on, like, the mouth of a duck?

[21:31] No.

Elliott Kalan

[21:33] That wouldn't make sense.

[21:34] No, no.

[21:34] But I see what you're saying.

[21:34] Maybe written on, like, a check you got at the end of a meal.

[21:38] Oh.

[21:39] Maybe a Clinton.

[21:40] Not Hillary, though.

[21:41] No, no, no.

[21:42] One of the other ones.

[21:43] Yeah.

[21:46] I get the bit without really getting out of it.

[21:48] What if it was written on, like, on something that hadn't become a law yet?

[21:53] It was still being voted on by Congress.

[21:55] Yeah.

[21:56] And then maybe they would sing a song about it on Saturday mornings.

Stuart Wellington

[21:58] When you don't have enough, you know, you don't have enough time for a William, but definitely

[22:01] not a will.

Elliott Kalan

[22:03] It's like a play that's on, like, a mister that would get crushed in a claymation short

[22:08] on Saturday Night Live in, like, the early 1980s.

[22:11] Yeah.

[22:12] Yeah.

[22:13] I'm John Moe.

S5

[22:18] My show, Depresh Mode, is all about mental health.

[22:22] And this week, I talk with Amanda Knox.

[22:24] She spent four years in an Italian prison for a murder she didn't commit.

[22:29] That's a lot of trauma.

[22:30] And she's okay talking about it.

[22:33] If I touch on something that you'd rather not get into, just say so.

[22:37] We'll cut the whole exchange out.

[22:38] But it also seems like you're pretty open about a lot of things.

Elliott Kalan

[22:42] Yeah.

[22:43] I am having trouble imagining anything that you could talk to me about that I...

[22:46] I know.

S5

[22:46] I know.

[22:47] What are we going to throw Amanda Knox with?

[22:50] Depresh Mode with John Moe.

[22:52] Only on Maximum Fun.

S6

[22:53] For over a decade, MaxFunCon has been an incredible weekend of learning, connecting, and laughing

[23:01] with folks in the MaxFun community.

[23:02] And, if all goes according to plan, the last regularly scheduled MaxFunCon will take place

[23:07] in Lake Arrowhead from June 3rd to June 5th, 2022.

[23:10] We have a very limited number of tickets remaining.

[23:13] To make them available to the maximum number of people, we'll be opening our waitlist for

[23:16] tickets on January 23rd at 5 p.m. Pacific.

[23:19] That'll be your chance to be first in line to purchase tickets.

[23:22] And we'll go down the waitlist until we're at capacity.

[23:24] More details at MaxFunCon.com.

[23:27] And mark your calendars for Sunday, January 23rd at 5 p.m. Pacific.

Dan McCoy

[23:32] Hello, everyone.

[23:33] Along with listeners like you, who give money to Maximum Fun to support the show,

[23:40] those that you love, this podcast is also sponsored by Storyblocks.

[23:46] Storyblocks makes it possible for creators to keep up with the growing demands for modern

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[24:33] plans and tools on the market that scale to meet your needs.

[24:38] I used Storyblocks recently to Elliot, when we were out there for his 40th birthday, played

[24:46] this song for us that he said was his night driving music.

[24:50] And I was taken by it.

[24:53] And I thought, yeah, this sounds like sort of the beginning to an old sort of exploitation Japanese movie

[25:03] from the 70s.

[25:04] It was a Japanese woman singer, Yoshiko Sai, who was great.

[25:09] And I was like, this is really sparking something in me.

[25:12] For fun, on my own time, the only time I have access to, for fun, I just used Storyblocks to assemble a music video

[25:23] for that song that was kind of like the credits to an old movie.

[25:30] And, you know, I realize I sound like a nerd, but I also am a nerd who has fun, his own kind of fun.

[25:37] And you can, too, with Storyblocks.

[25:41] Is that a good endorsement?

[25:43] I don't know, but I had fun making the video.

[25:45] Anyway, you can explore their library and subscribe today at storyblocks.com slash flop.

[25:51] That's storyblocks.com slash flop.

[25:56] Back to the show.

Stuart Wellington

[25:57] Okay, cool.

[25:58] So what's the next movie in this series?

S3

[26:01] We are really on this freight train now because now we are at the Princess Switch 3, Romancing the Star.

Elliott Kalan

[26:07] Oh, wow.

[26:07] So it's a subtitle that is a play off of the title of another movie.

[26:10] Yep.

S3

[26:11] It's a subtitle that barely makes sense within the context of the movie because there's a papal star that is stolen,

[26:17] and this is the one that turns into the Ocean's Eleven heist movie.

Stuart Wellington

[26:20] Okay.

[26:20] What's a papal star?

[26:22] Okay, now I'm in.

S3

[26:23] It's a star from the Pope.

[26:24] Oh, okay.

[26:25] And if they don't get back before Christmas.

Stuart Wellington

[26:27] Like a star from the sky, like you can buy it off the internet and that's named after you?

[26:30] Yeah, I've got another question.

[26:31] Yeah, the Pope's like, and that one's for you.

Elliott Kalan

[26:33] I'm like, thanks, Jared Leto.

[26:37] Holy Father, can I have a star?

[26:39] Oh, yeah.

[26:40] Oh, that one.

[26:41] Oh, thank you.

[26:42] I guess.

[26:44] How do I prove to anyone that I own that star now?

[26:46] What's his name?

Dan McCoy

[26:46] I don't know.

[26:48] AR-12.

[26:49] They're all got names like that, right?

[26:51] No, it's like a star.

[26:52] Forget about it.

[26:52] What's the matter for you?

Elliott Kalan

[26:55] The current Pope, of course, I think it's from Argentina.

[26:58] He does not have an Italian accent.

[26:59] He's of Italian descent, but I don't think he talks like that.

Dan McCoy

[27:02] The comedy character of the Pope, of course, is always Italian.

Stuart Wellington

[27:07] It's like when you do a semester abroad in England and all of a sudden you have this cool accent that everybody loves.

Elliott Kalan

[27:12] We're probably thinking of the previous Pope's accent, who was German, of course, or perhaps the Pope before that who was Polish.

Stuart Wellington

[27:21] The comedy Pope.

[27:22] The comedy one.

[27:23] So there's a papal star.

[27:24] Do they have to like – is there a like putting a team together sequence where they have to get people from all over the Netflix universe?

S3

[27:33] It's clearly what they're building towards, and we do in fact meet Count Simon, a character from the Christmas Prince movies who I haven't mentioned because he is so boring.

Elliott Kalan

[27:40] Mm-hmm.

S3

[27:40] But he does briefly join the team at a party while they're drinking candy cane martinis.

Elliott Kalan

[27:45] Candy cane martinis?

S3

[27:47] Candy cane martinis.

[27:48] Stuart, how would you make that?

Stuart Wellington

[27:50] Well, I would, I don't know, pour some vodka in a glass and then put a candy cane in it and charge $20.

[28:00] All right, I'm in.

[28:00] Sounds good.

[28:01] I apologize.

Elliott Kalan

[28:02] If anyone heard the sounds in the background there, there was an iPad that was turned on over here.

[28:06] And lately my iPad has started listening to us and announcing things.

[28:09] And so Siri thought that I was asking for candy cane martinis and was announcing the results.

Stuart Wellington

[28:16] Yeah.

[28:17] It's like when Homer goes into the Quickie Mart and asks for a Skittlebrow or something.

[28:22] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[28:23] I want Siri to respond to being like, a martini.

[28:27] Is it a martini just because it is served in a martini glass, Elliot?

[28:32] And it gets really snotty with you about it.

Elliott Kalan

[28:35] As much as only champagne from the champagne region can be called champagne, there are rules to make a martini.

[28:41] And it's like, Siri, I don't know.

[28:42] I didn't even want to talk to you.

Stuart Wellington

[28:44] Like, this is not a place.

Elliott Kalan

[28:46] Yeah, 17 minutes later.

Stuart Wellington

[28:48] Yeah, so how's the heist?

[28:50] Is it exciting?

[28:51] Is there a Danny Ocean-type figure?

[28:53] What's going on?

S3

[28:54] It's a pretty great one.

[28:54] They do a complete ripoff of Catherine Zeta-Jones jumping through the lasers.

Elliott Kalan

[28:59] I was going to ask about that.

[29:00] It feels like they kind of have to do that.

[29:01] But it's the person in a Santa Claus costume?

S3

[29:03] Well, it's the evil blonde Vanessa Hudgens.

[29:05] So she's now redeemed within the context of this universe.

[29:08] It's very exciting.

[29:09] How many characters are redeemed by pouring off a heist?

[29:12] All three of them.

[29:13] They all do a princess switch.

[29:15] Oh, sure.

[29:15] Yeah, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[29:16] It's the Hudgevengers or the League of Extraordinary Hudgens.

[29:19] Yeah, they're all there.

[29:20] Does the heist take advantage of the fact that they're all doppelgangers?

[29:23] Oh, for sure.

[29:24] Or is that ignored?

[29:25] Okay, good, good, good, good.

S3

[29:26] Two of them do.

[29:27] The other one, one of the Vanessa Hudgens has to go to the nunnery where the evil blonde Vanessa Hudgens is doing her community service and pretend to be her to get her parole bid.

[29:36] Successfully, might I add.

[29:37] I like this.

[29:38] Yeah, this is exciting.

[29:39] I hate to spoil all these movies for you.

Stuart Wellington

[29:41] No, it's fine.

[29:42] Oh, no.

[29:42] Where does this leave us?

[29:44] Where does, in this universe, what's the next step?

S3

[29:47] Well, the most disappointing thing is that they keep teasing the idea of the Vanessa Hudgens mother coming in, and I was so convinced it was going to be Vanessa Hudgens in old age makeup as a way to sneak another one in.

[29:59] That'd be so funny.

[30:00] It would have been so great.

S3

[30:00] It was one more, like the perfect crime.

[30:02] Get one more Vanessa Hudgens in here.

[30:04] Who's stopping you?

Stuart Wellington

[30:04] I mean, they tried.

[30:05] They tried and the film exploded.

[30:07] It was too much.

[30:09] It was too much.

[30:09] As a performer, imagine having that opportunity.

Dan McCoy

[30:13] By the way, I was just watching a bit of the film Chaplin, which I've never seen before.

[30:19] Don't ask me why.

[30:20] It was a whimsical choice on my part.

[30:23] But Robert Downey Jr.'s makeup as old Chaplin just looks like they dropped him into like a bag of flour and fished him back out.

[30:31] Love it.

[30:31] It is such bizarre old age makeup.

[30:34] I love this.

[30:35] Yeah, that's great.

Stuart Wellington

[30:36] Is it like when Guy Pearce played a super old man through most of Prometheus, and you're like, why did you get Guy Pearce?

[30:44] You could have gotten a normal actor, and then I realized.

[30:46] Just get an old man.

[30:47] It's perfect this way.

[30:49] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[30:51] It's better.

[30:53] I mean, if you like old people to look like wax figures that are maybe slowly melting even.

[30:59] I mean, I hope you like it because that's how it happens, Dan.

[31:00] I mean, it's.

[31:01] Well, there's this particular lifelessness of the makeup in this movie.

[31:06] I guess that's true.

Elliott Kalan

[31:07] Very rarely do old people look like porcelain dolls, I guess is what I'm saying.

Stuart Wellington

[31:12] So what's the next step?

[31:14] After a heist, it doesn't sound like there's anywhere to go.

S3

[31:17] Everyone falls in love.

[31:19] They get the star back.

[31:20] It's very exciting.

Elliott Kalan

[31:21] Okay.

[31:21] What is this?

[31:22] So it's like a jeweled star?

S3

[31:25] Yeah, it's like a jeweled star, and it represents peace.

[31:27] And if they don't get it back before Christmas, then I think they go to war.

[31:31] These movies always imply that some horrible, like, global conflict is about to break out.

[31:36] Which is where I think this is going.

Elliott Kalan

[31:38] Yeah.

[31:38] Now, that I think is very funny.

[31:39] If they're like, if this prince doesn't fall in love with this princess and get married,

[31:43] then the Holocaust will happen.

[31:45] And it's like, these stakes are too high.

[31:47] Too high.

[31:48] They're too high for this movie.

[31:49] Yeah.

S3

[31:49] There is a treaty like that in one of the Christmas Prince movies where they've been signing it for like 600 years,

[31:54] and you have to sign it again every century, or you just have to go back to war.

[31:57] And it's like, why don't they just say, no, we're not going to start fighting again?

[32:02] Yeah, it's like this debt ceiling thing.

Dan McCoy

[32:06] Do we really have to keep doing this all the time, or can we just make kind of a general proclamation that it's cool?

Elliott Kalan

[32:11] And if we hit it, do we just like, can we just ignore it?

[32:14] It's not a real ceiling.

[32:16] It's just a thing that we made up.

[32:19] Okay, so that's the end of the movies, right?

[32:21] No more movies?

[32:21] There is one more.

S3

[32:23] And it is the last and most exciting one, and the one that I find most baffling.

[32:28] It's called The Castle for Christmas.

[32:29] Christmas Prince Endgame.

[32:29] That's where this is going.

[32:31] So guys, I've actually watched The Castle for Christmas.

Stuart Wellington

[32:35] Christmas for Lebowitz, you said Dan?

[32:37] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[32:39] I mean, that kind of is the plot of A Catacal for Lebowitz in a way.

[32:43] So Stuart, you watched this one?

Stuart Wellington

[32:45] I watched this one not knowing the storied legacy that it was completing.

[32:51] Oh.

[32:51] It features Cary Elwes prominently.

[32:55] Always fun.

[32:56] Wow, Bobby Wobbly himself.

[32:57] With a very thick accent.

[32:59] And wait, who's the lead?

[33:02] Brooke Shields.

[33:02] Vanessa Hudgens.

[33:03] Brooke Shields.

[33:04] It's Brooke Shields, guys.

[33:05] It's Brooke Shields.

[33:06] Who plays...

[33:07] Oh, Shields and Yarnell?

[33:07] Brooke Shields, who plays a famous author who has...

[33:11] Who suddenly becomes Susan.

[33:13] Who suddenly became Susan, and she is...

[33:15] Suddenly.

Elliott Kalan

[33:15] It's like Teen Wolf, but she's becoming Susan.

[33:18] And her dad is knocking on the door going, Brooke, Brooke, what's going on in there?

[33:22] Oh, nothing, dad.

[33:23] She opens the door.

[33:23] I'll be a Susan, dad.

[33:25] Yeah.

[33:25] Yeah, her dad's a Susan, too.

[33:27] And he's like, we've all been Susans.

[33:28] I didn't want to have to tell you this.

[33:29] I was hoping it would skip your generation.

[33:32] So...

[33:32] And she does a...

[33:33] She has a dance called the Susan at the prom.

[33:35] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[33:36] She is like a world-famous author, and she...

[33:39] But she is getting some shit from the fans because she wrote the latest book in her series,

[33:44] and she killed off this hunky love interest that everybody loves.

[33:48] And she's like, I can do whatever I want.

[33:50] And all the fans are like, you can't.

[33:52] He's ours.

[33:52] And it's this kind of really interesting take on ownership and author's intent.

Elliott Kalan

[33:58] So it's like a rom-com loosely based on the real story of Arthur Conan Doyle trying to kill off Sherlock Holmes?

[34:03] Very similar.

Stuart Wellington

[34:04] And so the only thing she can do is go buy a castle in Scotland, I think.

[34:09] Mm-hmm.

[34:11] Scott, you're the expert on Scotland as well, as well as other things.

[34:14] Of course.

[34:15] So...

[34:15] Named after me.

[34:16] So she goes to Scotland to try and get some peace, and everybody's super cool there, and they're nice.

[34:21] And she's nice because she gives them money, so they like her a lot.

[34:25] But Carrie Elwes does not like her, although they have a little bit of chemistry right away.

[34:31] And she just thinks he's a regular-ass dude.

[34:34] Not so much.

[34:34] He owns that castle.

[34:36] That's his thing.

[34:37] But he's like, broke as a joke.

[34:39] So he has to give...

[34:40] He's like giving tours of his home, and he's being a real dick to her.

[34:44] And she's like kind of a dick to him, but not that bad.

[34:46] And then she ends up buying the castle and keeping him on to give the tours, and they fall in love.

[34:52] Am I missing anything?

S3

[34:53] You've summarized the plot very succinctly, but you did inevitably miss the most important part.

[34:58] Okay.

[34:59] Which is a completely pointless throwaway scene at the hotel where Brooke Shields is staying, when two characters come in, clearly having a torrid love affair.

[35:07] And it is two minor characters from the Princess Witch movie.

[35:10] Oh, wow.

[35:11] They are not related to the plot.

[35:13] They have no connection to anything happening.

Dan McCoy

[35:14] Sort of a Rosencrantz and Guildenstern of the universe.

S3

[35:18] Also revealing that Scotland and Aldovia and Belgravia and Montanaro are all real places within the same small block of England.

Elliott Kalan

[35:26] Oh, so those are...

[35:26] Wait a minute.

[35:27] So they're like independent principalities on Britain somehow?

S3

[35:30] They're close enough that they can sneak away from the castle where they have these royal duties.

[35:34] What?

[35:35] Or maybe it's a longer vacation.

Stuart Wellington

[35:37] Maybe during the heist they were able to sneak away.

[35:40] No?

Elliott Kalan

[35:41] Maybe there's a commuter flight from Moldavia.

[35:44] What is it called?

S3

[35:46] Montanaro, Belgravia, or Aldovia.

[35:48] Yeah, I mean...

Stuart Wellington

[35:49] The commuter flight from Aldovia to Edinburgh.

[35:51] Yeah, when I was doing a semester in Vienna, I just like was able to hop on a plane and fly to England for a weekend.

[35:57] It was great.

S3

[35:58] I just...

[35:58] I love that this is a movie that revealed two characters were having an affair that you would not know about if you watched any of the three movies in the actual franchise.

[36:06] You have to watch a seemingly unrelated movie.

[36:09] And if you're like Stuart and only watching that, you have no idea what these characters are doing here and probably don't notice them at all.

Elliott Kalan

[36:14] So it is a little bit like the scene in the...

[36:17] Was it the second Avengers movie where Thor just goes into that cave for some reason and has a vision?

[36:22] Yeah.

[36:22] And you're like, well, that doesn't...

[36:24] You're just setting up future movies.

[36:25] Like this has nothing to do with any of the others.

[36:27] What are you thinking?

Stuart Wellington

[36:28] And it kind of barely sets up future movies.

Elliott Kalan

[36:31] Yeah.

[36:31] It really didn't make any sense.

[36:32] So they're setting up the future movie A Christmas Infidelity, I imagine.

S3

[36:37] That's the hope.

[36:38] I mean, at the very least, we've got to be heading towards a Christmas princess switch, Civil War...

Elliott Kalan

[36:43] Well, they're setting it up for the adults-only rom-com princess swap, which is about one night.

[36:50] Yeah, that's the Brazzers version.

[36:53] Again, K-N-I-G-H-T.

[36:56] It's a K-N-I-G-H-T knight, medieval knight, who has a princess swap one night in order to make sure that war is averted between two sex-based kingdoms.

Stuart Wellington

[37:08] So we've had a lot of fun at the expense of these, but Scott, you have been, I'm sure, been watching a ton of rom-coms for your book.

[37:17] How do these rom-coms fall within your, I guess, compared to the other ones you've been watching?

S3

[37:26] The Pantheon?

[37:27] Yeah.

[37:27] I mean, I should say, first and foremost, I completely love these movies.

[37:31] I do not ironically love these movies.

[37:32] I think they are so fun and good.

[37:34] I also, the last chapter in my book, it's about modern rom-com, so it starts with When Harry Met Sally and goes up to Netflix.

[37:40] And I started writing about these in the Netflix chapter, and it was one of those things where I went into a fugue state that afternoon, and three hours later, I realized I had just written pages of connections between these Christmas movies.

[37:50] And I realized, like, I will go mad.

[37:53] This book will be so much longer than it needs to be.

[37:55] I need to stop.

[37:57] So I turned it into a little sidebar, which is, you know, why I'm just happy to come on this podcast and spill this out of my brain.

Stuart Wellington

[38:01] Yeah, your book turns into, like, House of Leaves about halfway through.

Elliott Kalan

[38:05] Yeah.

[38:05] I don't want your family to find you with just, like, having smeared a map of Belgravia in your own feces on the wall, and you're saying, it's all there.

Dan McCoy

[38:13] It's inside me.

[38:14] It's all there.

[38:15] I have so much sympathy for this, because, like, occasionally I'll write, like, little pop culture essays, and I find that if I don't pay attention, like, all of the dumb connections that don't actually mean anything, like, flow out of my brain.

[38:29] And I'm like, I have digression after digression with, like, a parenthetical in the middle, and then I have to cut it all because I realize no one cares.

Stuart Wellington

[38:36] I mean, it makes sense because normally your only other outlet for talking about pop culture is this podcast, which we keep super tight, and we don't allow any kind of digression.

Elliott Kalan

[38:46] No, not at all.

[38:47] It's got to be on point.

[38:48] So, I'm curious.

[38:49] What is your – so, yeah, where would you compare – what are rom-coms that you think are, like, the classic, like, best modern rom-coms, or the ones that you think are really exemplars of the form, and how do the Netflix movies match up to those?

[39:01] Like, what's a rom-com where you would – if people are like, show me a rom-com, what's one that will show me what this genre can do?

[39:06] What would you point them to?

[39:07] You mean, like, a modern one?

S3

[39:08] Yeah, yeah, a modern one.

[39:09] I really loved the – all three of the To All the Boys I've Loved Before movies in that I think they're – I think they do the teen rom-com thing really well, but I think they're also doing what modern movies do pretty well in that they're way more diverse than rom-coms used to be and actually comment on how not diverse older rom-coms were.

[39:25] I think they – to do a rom-com with continuity because everything has to be a franchise now, they actually make that kind of interesting where they have to – they're kind of forced to make all the characters and the relationships a little more complicated.

[39:36] So, there's something about Netflix kind of taking over the rom-com genre that's actually making weird, interesting things come out of it, which is part of why the book is subtitled The Rise Again of the Romantic Comedy.

[39:47] I think we're in an interesting era.

Stuart Wellington

[39:49] I feel like Char and I have been watching – we watch a lot – like, you know, during the holiday break, we watched a bunch of Netflix rom-coms.

[39:57] I think primarily Netflix.

[39:59] There might have been some on other streamers.

[40:02] And I'm trying to remember the names of them all because they're all fucking the same.

[40:06] They're all, like, puns based on Christmas shit.

[40:09] But, like, what was the one with Jimmy O. Yang where he, like, catfishes somebody?

[40:17] Oh, yeah, that one.

[40:18] Not particularly great, but it does – it did have, like, a really good take on the Baby It's Cold Outside song where they, like, fuck around with the lyrics and, like, modernize it well.

[40:30] So even that was like, okay, there's some interesting stuff going on here even if I don't like the whole movie.

S3

[40:35] Yeah.

[40:36] I mean, part of why I like the cinematic universe that we just spent a bunch of time breaking down is the writers are clearly doing whatever they can to mess around within this very established framework.

[40:44] And it's pretty fun to watch.

Stuart Wellington

[40:46] Now, do you feel that they're, like – I mean, I feel like with a lot of the Hallmark movies – and this – I could be unfairly, you know, tarnishing them.

[40:55] I feel like a lot of Hallmark movies are very conservative in their viewpoint, at least in, like, structure or, you know, you have your two, you know, regular, you know, the same kind of leads you're always used to seeing.

[41:08] Like, she works at a magazine.

[41:09] He is an architect or some shit.

[41:12] Do you see – I mean, do you feel like they're pushing the boundaries on those at all with Netflix or –

[41:18] Yeah.

S3

[41:19] I think it's been true in general.

[41:21] Actually, Hallmark is even getting better at that.

[41:22] We've actually – I mean, it's not at all uncommon that they'll do movies where both, you know, people don't have to be white people in the couple or they've done same-sex Hallmark movies.

[41:33] And nobody, you know, nobody seems to have raised a giant protest out of it that I've seen at least.

[41:37] So – but I do think Netflix and Hulu are both better at pushing that faster.

[41:41] I mean, you know, Hulu had Happiest Season last year.

[41:44] Oh, yeah.

[41:45] Netflix has Single all the way this year.

[41:46] So I think there's – the studios, you know, as usual, are a little slower to jump to this stuff, although I think they're getting there.

[41:52] Mm-hmm.

Elliott Kalan

[41:53] What is it about Christmas that has made it such a big setting for romantic – because I feel like if you watch old Christmas movies, they're family movies, a lot of them.

[42:01] They're not so much romantic movies.

[42:04] But now it feels like Christmas is all romance.

[42:06] Families, stay out of the way.

[42:08] Jews, never welcome.

[42:09] No thank you.

Stuart Wellington

[42:10] Well, we were trying to find – Hallmark put out like a Jewish – like a couple that like is like a Jewish woman or a Jewish man, a Christian partner.

[42:21] And I couldn't – we kept trying to find what – you know, it has some name like Kosher Christmas or some shit.

[42:26] But we were looking for it, but we couldn't find it.

[42:29] But yeah, I was really looking forward to that.

Elliott Kalan

[42:31] But what is it – like, Scott, why do you think Christmas is suddenly so romantic?

[42:35] Why not – well, I'm trying to think of other holidays that could be – I mean, like, why not Halloween?

[42:42] Valentine's Day.

[42:42] Which is like – well, Valentine's – yeah, why not Valentine's Day, which is about love?

[42:46] But like Halloween, you know, there's lots of stuff you can do with costumes and mistaken identity and like things like that.

[42:51] Why not – why Christmas, huh?

S3

[42:53] I think you should write the screenplay.

[42:54] I think Halloween rom-com is a legitimately great idea.

Elliott Kalan

[42:57] It's a great idea.

[42:58] Actually, yeah.

[42:59] I think Christmas is the same – maybe I should rate that.

S3

[43:00] It's the same reason they do action movies at Christmas.

[43:02] It's a really easy way to add some texture to your background.

Elliott Kalan

[43:05] That's a good point.

[43:06] And it comes with a lot of assumptions that everybody already understands.

[43:09] Right.

[43:09] You know, yeah, that makes sense.

Dan McCoy

[43:10] Yeah.

[43:10] And I assumed – I mean, like, it's the calculus changes with streaming, I guess, where it's like these things aren't necessarily going to become perennials.

[43:21] The value is that there's a new interchangeable one every year.

[43:24] But if you have it in your back catalog, you know, I imagine it's like writing a Christmas song.

Stuart Wellington

[43:31] Also blame Love Actually.

[43:33] Pulling it out.

[43:33] I feel like Love Actually is partially to blame.

[43:36] Yeah.

[43:36] That's a chapter in my book.

S3

[43:38] Uh-oh.

[43:40] Not my favorite.

Elliott Kalan

[43:41] Yeah.

[43:42] That's one – it's a movie that I've never actually seen, Love Actually.

[43:45] And I feel like – I feel like through my life I've seen it go from, like, a big hit movie to a movie that people like as a guilty pleasure to a classic movie to a movie people hate and think as bad.

[43:58] And I've never seen it.

[43:59] And I don't know.

[43:59] I mean, just look at – that's a stacked cast, Elliot.

Stuart Wellington

[44:02] It's crazy.

[44:03] It is a stacked cast.

Elliott Kalan

[44:04] But, like, there are a lot of movies with amazing casts that are terrible.

Stuart Wellington

[44:06] It's the kind of cast that you could normally only get for, like, a Doctor Strange movie.

Elliott Kalan

[44:14] There's something – I mean, as bad as it is that all major filmmaking now seems to be about making big budget franchises that have to make a billion dollars or else they're failures, there is something really fun about, like, how every big name actor, no matter how amazing they are, has to have –

[44:29] that has to be in a movie at some point where they're talking about made-up science fiction bullshit that doesn't matter, that nobody cares about.

Stuart Wellington

[44:36] There's something very English about that.

[44:38] It's like watching Dame Judi Dench be an air elemental in The Chronicles of Riddick.

Elliott Kalan

[44:43] There must be – the Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts must have a class now that's called, like, Making BS Sound Real, where they're like, okay, you're going to read this paragraph before the class.

[44:57] This is all about, like, keeping two-dimensional barriers from colliding, which would create a synarchy of transmutational matrices.

[45:06] Yeah, you've got to figure out a way to say it so it sounds like it's a real thing.

[45:08] Say it with your accent.

[45:13] Well, okay, Scott, is your book on shelves now?

S3

[45:16] My book is on shelves on February 1st.

Elliott Kalan

[45:19] February 1st. Can you tell us the title again?

S3

[45:20] It is called From Hollywood with Love, The Rise and Fall, and Rise Again of the Romantic Comedy.

Elliott Kalan

[45:25] On February 1st, plenty of time to buy it before Valentine's Day.

S3

[45:28] Published by HarperCollins.

[45:30] There's an audiobook version.

[45:31] If you buy one copy, hit me up and I'll send you a book plate on Twitter.

[45:35] If you buy 100 copies, I will grant you a boon.

Stuart Wellington

[45:39] Oh, wow.

[45:39] Oh, a boon.

[45:41] Where can people find you on Twitter then?

S3

[45:43] I'm at Scott Meslow.

[45:44] That's M-E-S-L-O-W.

[45:46] And you can also read me at GQ and at Vulture.

Stuart Wellington

[45:49] And do you, Elliot or Dan, Elliot, you've got a book coming out.

[45:52] Don't you want to plug your book real quick?

[45:54] My comic book, you mean?

[45:56] Yeah.

[45:56] Yeah, sure.

[45:57] It's a book.

[45:58] It's two pages.

[45:58] It's pages between two covers.

Elliott Kalan

[46:01] That's a good point.

[46:02] Yeah, it's like the Earl of Books said when he didn't want to finish his poker hand,

[46:05] but he wanted something to read.

[46:06] He said, just bring me some pages between two covers.

[46:09] And I'll hold it in my hand.

[46:10] That's why they're called books now.

[46:12] Yeah, well, there's new issues of Maniac of New York,

[46:15] The Bronx is Burning from Aftershock Comics by me,

[46:17] and the amazing artist Andre Moody.

[46:21] I'm always mispronouncing his name.

[46:23] Issue two should be on shelves right now.

[46:26] It's a four-issue miniseries, the sequel to Maniac of New York,

[46:29] which is now out in trade, Maniac of New York, Volume 1, The Death Train.

[46:33] So pick up The Trade, Maniac of New York, Volume 1, The Death Train,

[46:36] and then pick up the issues for Maniac of New York, The Bronx is Burning.

[46:39] Also, I have to say, you're at Harper.

[46:41] My books are from Harper, too.

[46:42] My children's books, Horse Meets Dog and Shark Win Hippo

[46:45] from Ballsroom Bray, a division of Harper Kids.

Stuart Wellington

[46:48] That's right.

[46:48] It's the book house today.

[46:50] And we're the book house boys.

[46:52] The book house boys.

[46:55] Scott, thanks so much for joining us.

[46:57] I'm really glad we got to do this.

[46:58] Yeah, that was a blast, man.

[46:59] Thanks, guys.

[47:00] Normally, I just text with Scott about Elden Ring spoilers

[47:04] and Hitman details and various other video game bullshit.

[47:08] So this is great.

[47:09] It's great to have a little chat.

[47:11] We'll get right back to that.

[47:13] Someday, there'll be a rom-com video game.

[47:15] It's called Resident Evil 8, where I get to run away

[47:18] from a giant, beautiful vampire lady.

[47:19] And every time she catches me, I'm like, oh, no.

Elliott Kalan

[47:23] So it's like a Looney Tunes cartoon.

[47:26] She's like, oh, man.

[47:27] And she's chasing after you.

Stuart Wellington

[47:29] I'm like, uh-oh, don't catch me.

[47:31] Whoops.

[47:32] Oh, no.

[47:32] I went the wrong way again.

S3

[47:34] I can't believe you're opening this up on my way out the door.

[47:36] We could go for another hour right now.

Stuart Wellington

[47:40] So, yeah, this podcast is part of the Maximum Fun Network of Podcasts.

[47:44] A lot of great shows on there.

[47:45] Check them out.

[47:46] This episode has been produced and edited by Alex Smith,

[47:50] who is very understanding for our late delivery.

[47:54] I am one of the hosts.

[47:55] My name is Stuart Wellington.

[47:56] I own a couple of bars in Brooklyn called Hinterlands and Minis.

[47:59] You should check those shits out.

[48:00] And my co-hosts are...

Dan McCoy

[48:02] This is pretty much the one thing I got going on right now.

[48:05] So I hope you keep listening.

Elliott Kalan

[48:09] And Elliot Kalin, see those aforementioned books.

[48:13] And I've got some other stuff coming up that I will talk about

[48:15] on a future Flophouse Podcast episode.

[48:18] Stay tuned.

[48:19] And our guest has been...

[48:20] Scott Neslow.

[48:21] Bye.

Dan McCoy

[48:32] Audience supported.

FH Mini 47 - The Netflix RomCom Cinematic Universe, with Scott Meslow

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