Ep. #362 - Dungeons & Dragons, with Adam Rex

Stuart Wellington

[0:00] On this episode, we discuss Dungeons and Dragons.

[0:04] The movie, not to be confused with Dungeons and Dragons, The Food.

[0:12] Told you I had a hot one.

[0:14] Told you I had a hot one.

[0:15] A plus, A plus, plus, plus.

Dan McCoy

[0:16] We're not going to do better than that, so let's move on.

[0:30] Hey, everyone.

[0:46] Welcome to the Flophouse.

[0:47] I'm Dan McCoy.

[0:48] Oh, hey.

[0:49] It's me, Stuart Wellington.

Elliott Kalan

[0:51] And hey, this is Elliot Kalin.

[0:52] I should warn everybody I'm battling a cold, as you can tell from my sexy Kathleen Turner voice.

[0:57] But don't worry.

[0:58] My voice will be back to its non-sexy Elliot Kalin version in time for our upcoming virtual live show on March 19th,

[1:03] when we'll be talking about Masters of the Universe.

[1:05] More about that upcoming virtual live show on March 19th later in the episode.

[1:09] But first, I'd love to introduce our guest for today.

[1:12] I'm very excited about this guest.

[1:13] He's someone whose work is very celebrated in the Kalin household, and hopefully households across the country.

[1:20] His name is Adam Rex.

[1:22] If you don't know him, he's an incredibly versatile author and artist.

[1:24] He's got roughly 70, 100 children's books under his belt.

[1:27] That's right.

[1:28] Some personal favorites.

[1:29] Yep.

[1:29] Some personal favorites in our house are his two books of monster poetry, Frankenstein Makes a Sandwich and Frankenstein Takes the Cake.

[1:36] School's First Day of School, which he wrote is a big one here.

[1:38] And of course, Nothing Rhymes with Orange, which I think is maybe my favorite picture book of all time.

[1:43] He's the illustrator of a new book that's out now called Gladys the Magic Chicken.

[1:48] And Adam Rex is our guest today.

[1:49] Thank you so much for joining us, Adam.

[1:50] Thank you so much for having me.

S4

[1:52] And I should warn you that my voice always sounds bad.

Dan McCoy

[1:55] Oh, okay.

[1:57] Warning received.

[1:59] Yeah.

[2:00] Stuart got it.

[2:01] He's putting it in his pocket.

[2:02] I'm putting it in my pocket.

Elliott Kalan

[2:04] There you go.

[2:04] In his warning Rolodex.

[2:06] He shows Stuart whenever he gets a warning.

[2:07] He writes it down on a Rolodex page.

[2:09] Mm-hmm.

[2:09] Puts it in his Rolodex.

[2:10] And he just kind of secretes it into a pocket that's bigger on the inside than the outside.

[2:14] Mm-hmm.

[2:14] Which is how he avoids bulges by putting a Rolodex in his pocket.

Stuart Wellington

[2:17] Mm-hmm.

[2:18] Because I don't want to – if I go out into public and I have unsightly bulges, I got

[2:22] to tell you, people don't like it.

[2:24] Yeah.

[2:25] He only wants the sightly ones.

[2:26] I get negative reviews.

[2:28] Down votes.

Elliott Kalan

[2:29] How many sightly bulges do you have?

[2:30] Like three, roughly?

Stuart Wellington

[2:32] Yeah.

[2:32] I mean – wait.

Elliott Kalan

[2:33] Milk, milk.

[2:35] Oh, my God.

[2:36] Stop it.

[2:37] Yep.

[2:38] Full four.

[2:39] I always wonder, what are they making around the corner?

Stuart Wellington

[2:43] Wait.

[2:43] Let me check.

[2:44] What's that?

[2:46] Wait.

[2:46] You know what?

[2:47] It looks like fudge.

Elliott Kalan

[2:48] Wait.

[2:49] Wait.

[2:49] I'm remembering from Jared Leto and House of Gucci.

[2:52] We should not confuse two different things, chocolate and another thing.

[2:58] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[2:59] Stuart, fortunately for Elliot's voice, you seemed like the proper man to talk – to do

[3:05] the synopsis for a Dungeons and Dragons movie.

Stuart Wellington

[3:08] Hell, yeah.

[3:08] Because today on this bad movie podcast where we watch a bad movie and talk about it, we're

[3:12] going to be talking about 2000s, Dungeons, and Dragons.

Elliott Kalan

[3:17] Now, this was a movie that was suggested by our guest.

[3:21] Mr. Rex, why Dungeons and Dragons?

S4

[3:24] Well, I'm – you know, despite your nice introduction, I'm keenly aware that probably

[3:28] most of your listeners don't know who I am.

[3:31] And I feel like they're probably wondering why does he get to guest on his favorite podcast?

[3:35] I don't get to guest on my favorite podcast.

[3:37] So, I wanted to pick a movie that would kind of justify –

Elliott Kalan

[3:39] I mean, the weird thing is the person thinking that is Paul F. Tompkins, who does get to

[3:43] guest on all of his favorite podcasts.

[3:44] Right.

[3:44] So, it's really unfair of him to think that about you.

[3:46] But this is my first.

[3:47] But anyway, your thing.

S4

[3:48] And I wanted to pick a movie that would seem to sort of justify my presence.

[3:51] And before I got into children's books, which I consider to be my life's work, I made my

[3:58] living for years illustrating fantasy role-playing games and collectible card games, Magic the

[4:04] Gathering and Dungeons and Dragons and stuff for White Wolf.

[4:08] And I did just hundreds.

[4:10] Hell yeah.

[4:10] Yeah.

[4:11] White Wolf, I did Changeling.

[4:12] Did you ever play Changeling?

Stuart Wellington

[4:13] Hell yeah.

[4:14] I mean, I played it like once or twice, but the books are gorgeous.

S4

[4:17] Well, probably not because of any of my work.

[4:19] I did a tremendous amount of really bad work back then for Changeling.

[4:22] And as long as nobody takes that information and goes out and tries to find any of it, I'm

[4:26] comfortable with you knowing that.

[4:28] But I did a lot of good and bad stuff for D&D, just hundreds of illustrations over the

[4:35] years.

[4:36] And so I thought maybe that'll translate to expertise.

[4:41] So I picked this movie so that at least people would hear that about me and think, okay, that

[4:46] makes sense.

Elliott Kalan

[4:47] So when you're illustrating, did you mostly specialize in dungeons or in dragons?

S4

[4:51] I was more of a dragon guy than a dungeon guy.

[4:54] But yeah, you got to take what you get.

Stuart Wellington

[4:58] Yeah, they have two stables.

[4:59] They have a stable for dungeon guys and a stable for dragon guys.

[5:03] And they let them out of their stables to draw pictures and then they make them go back

[5:06] at night.

Elliott Kalan

[5:07] And this is why I never made it as a D&D artist because I misunderstood the concept and I sent

[5:13] them so many pictures of Dungeness crabs and they just accepted none of them.

Dan McCoy

[5:17] Yeah.

[5:18] Yeah.

[5:18] Stuart, I was wondering, did you know this about our guest?

[5:20] Because I was trying to read your face, assuming that your eyes would bulge out of your head

[5:26] and you'd start drooling.

[5:27] Yeah.

[5:28] If it was new information.

Stuart Wellington

[5:29] They'd bulge out of my head and then pop out of the eyelids and dangle down my face and

Elliott Kalan

[5:33] then swing around.

[5:34] A steam whistle would blow and then your eyes would turn into dice.

[5:37] They would roll themselves.

[5:38] Oh, yeah.

[5:39] And then the words critical hit would appear in a neon sign over your head.

[5:42] And then you'd have to stuff those dice back into your eyes.

Stuart Wellington

[5:45] Yeah.

[5:46] Unfortunately, that didn't happen.

[5:48] But, you know, you can, listeners at home, Alex, throw on a sound effect.

[5:51] People know what just happened.

[5:54] Yeah.

[5:54] You know, I feel like when we, when, because Adam, you did a limited t-shirt for us, right?

[6:02] Yeah, that's right.

[6:03] Mm-hmm.

[6:04] And I feel like when Elliot suggested that you were up for doing a shirt for us, hopefully

[6:11] I'm not misrepresenting Elliot.

[6:13] I feel like I looked you up and I'm like, oh, shit, he did all this art that I love.

[6:19] Because, you know, I'm not always the best person at actually researching who does all

[6:22] the art in the library of role-playing game tomes outside of my buddy Tom Fowler.

[6:29] You assume they're photographs of the real beasts and monsters.

[6:32] That's the thing.

[6:33] I'm assuming that's what happened, drawn from life from a photograph.

[6:38] Yeah, in a Pikmin's model type scenario.

Dan McCoy

[6:40] Arcana that has been reproduced, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[6:44] So what, before we get into this, what I need to ask, ask you, Adam, is did you do any of

[6:51] the art that graces the pages of the sewers of, wait, wait, I gotta, it's called the sewers

[6:57] of Sumdall, which is the, I think I'm saying it right.

[7:02] Yeah.

[7:02] Sewers of Sumdall, the role-playing adventure that Wizards of the Coast made to, I think it

[7:08] was Wizards of the Coast, made to go along with the DVD of this movie.

[7:13] So you could play through the events of the movie.

S4

[7:16] Yeah, I, I, I overlapped.

[7:17] I did, I actually worked for TSR and then, you know, later for Wizards after they acquired

[7:22] it.

[7:22] And no, I had nothing to do with the tie-in adventure, Sewers of Sumdall.

[7:27] Sewers of Sumdall.

[7:27] Okay, well, that's perfect.

[7:29] I wonder who did that, actually.

[7:30] It's like, must have, they must have commissioned some art for it.

Elliott Kalan

[7:34] I mean, take this as constructive criticism.

[7:35] You would be a better guest if you had.

[7:38] But you're still, you're still going to be a great guest.

[7:40] Still going to be a great guest.

Stuart Wellington

[7:40] All right.

[7:41] Actually, I think that leads me to the next point.

[7:43] Since you're not familiar with the book, I say, instead of doing this dumb fucking podcast,

[7:47] we just play this fucking adventure.

[7:50] Now it says you just need this booklet, some D6s and three friends.

[7:57] I got three friends.

[7:58] Oh, it's really fun because you get to play through the events of the movie.

[8:02] Well, a like a weird version of the events because there's a zombie zoo, which I don't remember

[8:07] being in the movie.

[8:08] Oh man, that would have made it so much better.

[8:10] And you get to play as, as our four main characters who we'll learn about more and more detail

[8:15] and I don't know if you're going to be a good one.

[8:16] I don't know if you're going to be a good one.

Elliott Kalan

[8:19] Correct me if I'm wrong about this.

[8:22] Elwood is never named in the movie, is he?

[8:25] I don't believe so.

[8:26] The only reason I know his name is because a caption came up on screen when I, because

[8:30] I had the captions on because it was loud.

[8:32] It said Elwood with his dialogue.

[8:33] And I was like, and I, so from that point on, I was like, I wonder when they're going

[8:36] to name this character.

[8:37] And I don't think they ever did.

[8:38] So this is the dwarf we're talking about?

[8:40] This is the dwarf, the battle axe who, as we'll see, joins the, joins the party because

[8:44] they woke him up sleeping on the street and then he's just with them for no reason.

Dan McCoy

[8:48] Yeah.

[8:49] I looked at a little bit of the behind the scenes stuff and that dwarf, you know, like

[8:53] is played by a man of average height who had to sort of hunch and just sort of walk.

[9:01] They'd use, Dan, are you telling me they'd use movie magic?

[9:04] No, but not really movie magic.

[9:07] They just had him sort of crouch as he walked around, which I thought was a great detail.

Elliott Kalan

[9:12] That's the thing about magic, Dan, is it's always disappointing how they did it.

[9:15] It's the art of illusion and distraction.

[9:18] And that's how they get you.

[9:19] That's how they get you.

[9:20] Yeah.

[9:20] Of course.

[9:22] He didn't really make the Statue of Liberty disappear.

[9:24] Right?

[9:24] He just pointed the cameras away from the Statue of Liberty.

[9:27] Like, you get that, right?

[9:28] Are you talking about Cloverfield?

[9:30] Yeah.

[9:31] David Cloverfield.

[9:33] The magician who made the Statue of Liberty's head come off.

[9:38] It was all done with mirrors.

Stuart Wellington

[9:40] It was all mirrors.

[9:42] Okay.

[9:42] So, well, this movie came out in the year 2000.

[9:47] And what?

[9:49] Is it two years later?

[9:50] I'm trying to remember.

[9:51] Is it one year or two years later?

[9:53] This movie was produced by New Line Cinema, who a few years later produced another fantasy film.

[9:59] You may have heard of it.

[10:00] It's called The Fellowship of the Ring.

[10:02] And I think you're going to see some similarities between both these movies.

[10:06] Dwarves, elves, and a couple of weird media, specific plot points, which is actually kind of funny.

[10:12] Weird racial politics.

[10:12] That's true.

[10:13] That's in there.

[10:14] So, do you guys want to get into this movie real quick?

[10:17] Fuck it.

[10:17] Let's do it.

[10:18] Yeah.

[10:19] Okay.

[10:19] That's what we're here for.

[10:20] Let me put away the adventure that you guys don't want to play.

Elliott Kalan

[10:24] No, no.

[10:24] I mean, I couldn't wait.

[10:25] It's a sewer adventure.

[10:26] So, I assume we meet the Ninja Turtles at some point.

[10:28] So, maybe we can play it another time.

S4

[10:29] I don't know how you guys watch this movie, but we actually rented it from Tucson's last remaining video rental store.

[10:38] Oh, wow.

[10:39] The venerable Casa Video.

[10:42] And it was – I mean, I can't blame Casa Video.

[10:45] I imagine this is a DVD that was made 22 years ago because there was never another edition that was necessary.

[10:52] But the whole thing looked like a poorly compressed JPEG.

[10:56] The menu looked like a CD-ROM game from 1993.

[11:01] And if ever there was a movie that should be watched on a 12-inch television with a built-in VCR, it was this one.

Stuart Wellington

[11:11] It's convenient that some of the special effects also look like they're from a CD-ROM game from 1993.

[11:16] Oh, boy.

[11:17] Yeah.

[11:18] Okay.

[11:19] So, the movie opens, as I mentioned, New Line Cinema logo.

[11:22] Still gets me pumped.

[11:23] We get narration.

[11:25] Yeah, because you think that, what, Freddy is going to show up?

[11:28] Freddy or a later Jason.

[11:31] So, we get some narration.

[11:33] We learn that the Empire of Izmir is kind of a mageocracy that's ruled by a council of mages plus an empress.

[11:43] And the young empress wants to balance the power to share it between the commoners and the mages.

[11:49] But the leader of the mages, a dude named Profion, is like, uh-uh.

[11:53] So, that's all we need to know.

[11:55] That's all the world building we're getting.

[11:57] We get a little, and obviously already everybody's really excited because that's how you get pumped is you hear a little bit of backstory.

Dan McCoy

[12:03] Yeah, well, and I want to say that these two characters that we've met, well, we've heard their names, represent the, I think, the highest and the lowest of the acting in this.

[12:13] Like, I'm usually pretty easy on actors, and I don't really blame the actors in this because everyone in it, I think, is bad other than Jeremy Irons, who is always electric anyway.

Elliott Kalan

[12:26] I like Richard O'Brien as well.

[12:28] Yeah, Richard O'Brien's pretty great in it, too.

[12:31] But Thoroughburch is the…

[12:32] If you're not a melodramatic Englishman in this, then you're in trouble in this movie.

Dan McCoy

[12:36] No, they know what to do with this kind of material, whereas Thoroughburch is the princess and an actor I've enjoyed very much in other movies but seems totally lost here.

[12:48] Like she's reading off of cue cards or something for much of the time.

Elliott Kalan

[12:51] It is the flattest princess-empress performance in a science fiction fantasy epic, and that's speaking as someone who recently re-watched the prequels.

[13:01] That, like, it's flatter than the Amidala performance.

[13:04] But I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt that, like, this was a first-time director she was working with.

[13:12] Yes.

[13:12] His name is Courtney Solomon.

[13:14] Not the first Flophouse movie we've done by him.

[13:16] He directed Getaway with Ethan Hawke, which we did years ago.

[13:19] Right.

[13:20] And she apparently shot this…

Stuart Wellington

[13:21] That's the one where Ethan Hawke just drives a car around Eastern Europe, right?

Elliott Kalan

[13:24] Basically.

[13:25] Yes, very much so.

[13:26] And she apparently did this right after she shot American Beauty but before it was released.

[13:30] So, and it sounds like she was just so emotionally drained from the American Beauty performance that I don't think she necessarily had it in her to provide the necessary stuff.

[13:40] Yes.

Dan McCoy

[13:40] And since you've already brought him up, I just wanted to say that the story behind the making of this movie seems a lot more interesting than anything else.

[13:47] Because Courtney Solomon, who wrote and directed, bought the rights to Dungeons & Dragons when he was 19 and then spent, like, 10 years putting together funding and originally was just going to produce it.

[14:00] They, like, were going to get big-name directors for it.

[14:02] But there were a lot of different things that happened.

[14:06] As alluded to before, Dungeons & Dragons, the game, traded companies, the rights to that.

[14:12] And so, eventually he wound up making a major motion picture for his very first film, which is probably why all of the acting in this is uniformly pretty terrible.

[14:26] Because I imagine that first-time director was out to sea.

Elliott Kalan

[14:29] And especially a movie, a first-time director on a movie with a lot of effects.

[14:33] They're shooting it in Eastern Europe.

[14:34] And they didn't have as much money as they thought they were supposed to have.

[14:38] Everyone knows you need to direct one small indie movie.

[14:41] Then you direct a major $100 to $200 million big-budget franchise film.

[14:46] Yes.

[14:47] That's how you do it.

Dan McCoy

[14:47] And you won't be allowed to direct the action parts of that.

[14:50] That'll be previous for you.

[14:51] No, no.

[14:51] And they hire professionals to do that.

[14:53] Yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[14:54] But, yeah.

[14:55] But Jeremy Irons is a wonder to behold.

[14:57] It's like every muscle in his face.

[15:00] Yeah, every muscle in his face should get its own credit.

[15:02] Like, they're all working, doing it separately.

[15:04] And at high intensity.

[15:06] And just each eyebrow is doing different things.

[15:09] It's amazing.

Stuart Wellington

[15:10] Yeah.

[15:10] And at this time, Dungeons & Dragons was obviously an established property.

[15:15] But I don't think it was – its stock wasn't as high as it is, say, like now, for instance.

Dan McCoy

[15:20] You mean that that Saturday morning cartoon hadn't rocketed it to the top?

Stuart Wellington

[15:24] Well, and then it had dipped again, Dan.

[15:26] This was years after the Saturday morning cartoon.

Elliott Kalan

[15:29] This was BNWC, which is before Nerd World Conquest.

[15:35] So 2,000 nerds were still in the process of conquering the world.

[15:37] Not like today when nerds do conquer the world and have become bullies and control all of popular culture entertainment.

Stuart Wellington

[15:45] Yeah, it's a real shame.

[15:46] So we have an opening sequence where we are flying around the – what is it?

[15:57] Sumdall?

[15:58] I think it's Sumdall.

[15:59] Which is the capital city of Izmir.

[16:02] It's a really cool CGI cut scene.

[16:05] And then we fly around the city and then immediately plunge into a sewer.

[16:10] Awesome.

[16:11] It does feel a little bit like the opening of like a horror movie logo, like a production company logo.

[16:19] But we'll get to that later.

[16:19] Yeah.

[16:20] We are in a dungeon where Profion, played again by the lovely Jeremy Irons, and his buddy Damodar, played by –

[16:30] Oh, the bald guy?

[16:32] Damodar is Bruce Payne, who was also in Getaway.

Dan McCoy

[16:36] With the blue lips?

Stuart Wellington

[16:37] Yeah, he's got the blue lips.

[16:38] I don't know if he's a warlock of Korth.

Elliott Kalan

[16:41] I got to say, I really like his look.

[16:43] He looks like he's just trying to be Rob Halford.

[16:45] He's got this big metal armor and leather armor.

[16:48] He's bald.

[16:48] He's English.

[16:49] He's Rob Halford.

[16:49] I can't not like that.

Stuart Wellington

[16:51] So they're hanging out in a dungeon while Profion shoots lightning bolts at a scepter, and then he caresses that scepter.

[16:56] And you're like, that scepter's got to be important.

[16:59] And then he lets out a really cool red dragon, and he tries to control it using the scepter.

[17:05] It works for a second, and then it definitely doesn't work.

[17:08] And a well-grab comes in the door and kills him.

[17:10] Yeah.

[17:10] So the dragon gets a little bit out of control.

[17:14] So their only option, of course, drop that poor Cullis and kill the dragon, which is Kydors.

[17:19] Kydors.

[17:20] Now, I am assuming that a lot of the people that are watching the movie are already established fans of Dungeons and Dragons.

[17:26] At that point, they're probably wondering, how did a door kill a dragon?

S4

[17:32] Those things have so many fucking hit points.

[17:35] Yeah.

[17:36] The dragons in this movie are basically just dinosaurs.

[17:38] They are not intelligent.

[17:41] They, you know, like a gold dragon, just to put my second pair of glasses on right now.

[17:46] A gold dragon should be supremely intelligent and a powerful magic user in its own right.

[17:53] And so my wife really appreciated me pausing the movie to tell her this.

[17:59] Exactly.

Stuart Wellington

[18:01] So.

Elliott Kalan

[18:02] And then you ran to IMDB to put it in the goof section, right?

[18:06] Yeah.

[18:06] Obviously.

Stuart Wellington

[18:09] So he explains that he wants the Scepter of Izmir, which would allow him to control all the gold dragons.

[18:18] Unfortunately, that is in the possession of the Empress.

[18:20] Now, the Empress is played by Thora Birch.

[18:24] She, I think, as an attempt to kind of make her a little more involved in her performance or to, like, wake her up from whatever stupor spell has been cast on her.

[18:32] They put this weird headdress on that has these, like, little dangly balls.

[18:36] I think it's supposed to look like dragon heads.

[18:38] I can't tell.

[18:38] But it is very distracting.

[18:40] And it seems like, I don't know, it seems like an odd choice.

[18:43] It certainly does not look like the crown of a ruler.

Dan McCoy

[18:46] She has kind of a disco-inspired look for much of the movie, I think.

[18:49] Yes.

Stuart Wellington

[18:50] Okay.

[18:51] So the Empress learns from this old wizard, like, Valdir or something, that if she can control or find the Scepter – no, she already has the Scepter of Izmir.

[19:02] But she learns that there is another thing, the Rod of Savril, which would allow you to control all the red dragons.

[19:09] So she's already got gold dragons in one hand.

[19:11] But what if she had the rod with all the red dragons in the other hand?

Dan McCoy

[19:15] I have already reached my fill of fantasy bullets.

Stuart Wellington

[19:18] It's super awesome.

[19:18] However, unfortunately, this conversation is being spied on magically by Profion.

[19:24] And Profion's like, ha-ha, I'm going to go get that Rod of Savril.

[19:27] Very cool.

[19:28] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[19:29] Profion's got his own little salacious crumb who's just like a little tittering dragon man that flies around and just listens and laughs.

[19:37] It's an imp.

[19:38] Flies away.

[19:38] Okay.

[19:39] Okay.

S4

[19:39] It's one of the few times when the movie actually uses something kind of correctly from the monster manual.

[19:45] So it's an imp.

Elliott Kalan

[19:47] I mean –

[19:48] How about later when a beholder shows up and it just floats around and it doesn't do much of anything?

S4

[19:52] That beholder is basically just like a magical Rottweiler, you know?

Dan McCoy

[19:56] Yeah.

S4

[19:57] It just goes, oh, and then runs off after a stick.

Dan McCoy

[20:01] I know enough about your classic Dungeons & Dragons creatures that I too was able to annoy my wife by saying, oh, that's a beholder.

[20:12] But then she's like, what does it do?

[20:14] And I looked it up.

[20:17] Oh, man.

[20:17] Well, no, the thing was like I was totally –

Stuart Wellington

[20:18] The defeated male leaves the truck.

Dan McCoy

[20:21] I assumed that it was kind of as shown in this movie because my other biggest association with beholder is when like a beholder-esque creature shows up in Big Trouble in Little China.

[20:36] And both times they seem to be kind of –

[20:38] Or when Stuart plays a beholder?

[20:39] Yeah.

[20:41] That's not necessarily –

[20:42] Has he taken on Welcome to the Magic Tavern?

[20:43] That's Stuart.

[20:44] I'm not going to take anything seriously.

Stuart Wellington

[20:46] Or the tattoo on my arm.

Dan McCoy

[20:47] Yeah, so I just assumed he was kind of a guard dog.

[20:51] And then I looked it up.

[20:52] I'm like, oh, the beholder has all these magics in their different eyes.

[20:56] Exactly.

[20:56] Yeah, it's dope.

Stuart Wellington

[20:57] My wife actually walked into the room while I was watching this scene.

[21:02] And I'm like, look, Char, there's a beholder.

[21:03] And she goes, did they get enough eyes on it?

[21:06] And then I immediately had to pause the movie so we could have sex.

[21:11] Like, stop flirting with me, babe.

Elliott Kalan

[21:14] You had sex while locking eyes.

[21:17] With the paused image of the beholder on screen.

[21:20] Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

Stuart Wellington

[21:22] You kept whispering, this is for you.

[21:24] Yum, yum, yum.

[21:25] Okay, so meanwhile, Marina, who is a student of Valden Valdir, the wizard, is –

[21:36] I think his name is Vildan.

[21:38] Whatever.

[21:41] She's trying to help him find the scroll so they can find the rod of Savril.

[21:46] And they find the scroll, but it's like, you know, it's enchanted.

[21:49] He can't figure it out.

[21:51] Okay, now let's get to the real story, guys, because we're introduced to a couple of plucky young adventurers who witnessed the results of that dragon dying because the dragon blood sets the whole river on fire.

[22:06] And then we're introduced to a dragon blood.

[22:06] CGI dragon blood sets the whole river on fire.

[22:10] So our two would-be rogues, Ridley and Snails, decide to use that distraction to break into the magic school.

Dan McCoy

[22:18] Now, let's talk about these two gentlemen.

[22:20] Ridley and Snails?

[22:21] Cops?

[22:22] Yeah.

[22:22] Ridley is played by an actor that I –

[22:26] Justin Whelan.

[22:26] Yeah, I mostly know him for the guy – he took over as Andy in Child's Play 3.

Elliott Kalan

[22:31] Oh, see, I know him as – he was Jimmy Olsen in The New Adventures of Lois and Clark.

Dan McCoy

[22:35] Okay.

[22:36] Well, here in this movie, I texted both of you to say, I hate this lead because he must have put all of his points in stealth and none for charisma because –

[22:49] Dexterity.

[22:50] This guy, I just felt like everything – he seems to be trying to do like, you know, roguish patter throughout the movie.

[22:57] And he always just comes off as a creep to me.

[23:00] And meanwhile, Snails is played by Marlon Wayans in a performance that even at the time when I saw this on video seemed regressive to me.

[23:10] Like, I do not blame him for taking the part, but it is written as a caricature of like – I don't know.

[23:17] It's like from an earlier era of a scared, dumb, black dude, and it was kind of unpleasant.

Elliott Kalan

[23:24] Well, I wonder if that's one of those things where if it's – if the part was written as a scared young black – a scared, dumb black guy or it was just a scared, dumb guy.

[23:32] And by casting Marlon Wayans in the role, they're playing into bad stereotypes.

[23:36] It becomes a bad stereotype.

[23:38] From what I was reading, he did a lot of ad-libbing.

[23:42] And apparently the rule was he got to ad-lib three lines for every three lines of the script that he said as written.

[23:48] Wow.

[23:49] So it's hard to know where the blame falls, but he does come off as a stereotype caricature character for sure.

S4

[23:55] From what I read, he was simultaneously shooting Requiem for a Dream during this.

[24:01] Which is terrific.

[24:02] Yeah.

[24:03] Which is so confusing.

[24:04] I have not seen that movie, I have to admit, but I am under the impression it is a good prestige sort of movie.

[24:11] And he just – yeah, Marlon Wayans just kind of squeals his way through every scene that he's in, like five seagulls wearing a human suit.

Stuart Wellington

[24:23] Yeah.

[24:23] Well, I mean of those two movies, one is a harrowing experience making you question why you're spending your time watching it.

[24:30] And the other is –

[24:31] Here's the punchline.

[24:31] For a dream.

[24:32] Boom.

[24:33] Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

[24:36] Air horns, air horns, air horns.

[24:37] Textbook, air horns, air horns.

Elliott Kalan

[24:38] JK, I don't like that other movie either.

Stuart Wellington

[24:40] Okay.

[24:40] Holy grail, holy grail.

[24:41] So, they are breaking into the magic school when they are –

[24:48] Hogwarts.

[24:49] Yep, they are confronted by Marina who uses some magic to bind them up and then she's going to show them off to Vildan only to find out that Damodar and his crimson brigade have already arrived.

[25:05] And they want that scroll.

Dan McCoy

[25:06] Every time I hear another one of these names, my brain starts shutting down.

Elliott Kalan

[25:10] Well, but would you rather their names were like Joe, Stephanie, like stuff like that?

[25:15] It wouldn't work.

[25:15] No, I understand.

[25:16] Knuckles.

[25:17] I understand why it happens.

[25:19] Oh, no.

[25:20] Richard and his crimson brigade are here.

Dan McCoy

[25:22] Yeah.

[25:22] I just have a hard time.

[25:25] Yeah, like my memory rejects what any of it means.

[25:29] But you have to take this over to the wizard Gary.

[25:32] Only he can help you.

[25:34] I would know who Gary was.

[25:35] Like, oh, that's Gary.

Stuart Wellington

[25:37] So, Damodar kills Vildan.

[25:39] Marina grabs the scroll and uses some magic dust to make a portal to escape.

[25:46] And in the process, she drags along our two would-be thieves.

[25:52] Damodar and his crimson brigade quickly follow.

[25:54] And we have a brief chase through the streets of some doll.

[25:59] Some place.

[26:00] And it leads them down an alleyway where in a big pile of trash, they bump into Elwood the

[26:07] dwarf.

[26:07] And now we have an adventuring party, guys.

Dan McCoy

[26:10] And he just kind of, I don't know.

[26:12] He seems to just join them because he doesn't have much else to do.

Elliott Kalan

[26:14] Yeah, Elwood is the character where I felt, watching this movie, I felt a lot like when

[26:19] we watched Super Mario Brothers where it was like, the movie just is like, okay, and

[26:23] go.

[26:24] As long as we keep moving fast, nobody's going to ask us any questions and we don't have to

[26:27] answer them.

[26:28] And when Elwood joins, it was like the movie was like, you knew they were going to get

[26:31] some more people.

[26:32] Like, so he just comes along with them.

[26:33] Like, he doesn't need a reason.

[26:34] He doesn't need a character.

[26:35] You know, so because they wake him up.

[26:37] He fights Damodar for a second, then runs away with them.

[26:40] And the next scene, he's just creeping around town with them in a cloak.

[26:43] And it's like, well, why did he stick with them?

[26:45] I don't know.

[26:45] Like, if you are ever, if you're ever in a situation where you are just walking around

[26:50] on the street and you get in an argument with somebody and then a passerby just happens

[26:54] to be there, he doesn't then become part of your family that just goes with you to whatever

[26:58] you're doing next.

[26:59] Like, I found it really fun.

Stuart Wellington

[27:01] Normally, you have to complete some kind of like sub quest or something to get them to

[27:05] join your party.

[27:06] And then you can start leveling them up.

[27:08] And then if you're lucky, you can do a romance plot with them.

[27:11] That's kind of what I was.

[27:13] What do you say, Dan?

Dan McCoy

[27:14] No, just that this like, in a weird way, feels like the most realistic to Dungeons and Dragons

[27:19] part to me, though, where like, you know, it seems like so many campaigns start with just

Stuart Wellington

[27:24] people being like, uh, we're all in a tavern.

[27:26] And like, we're kind of like, yeah, we're adventurers.

Dan McCoy

[27:28] So we'll join this thing, you know?

Elliott Kalan

[27:31] But think about it.

[27:31] I guess so.

[27:32] But it's like, let's take a good movie.

[27:34] It's called Star Wars.

[27:35] I don't know if you guys have seen it.

[27:36] It's called Star Wars Episode IV, A New Hope.

[27:37] So this young farmer dressed as a karate guy and this old wizard who lives in the desert,

[27:45] they go to a bar and they're like, we got to get off the planet.

[27:47] That's how I saw it.

[27:48] Okay, well, let me, I just set the scene.

[27:51] Anyway, they go and they talk to a space bear and a pirate in a vest.

[27:55] And they're like, hey, can you join us to get off the planet?

[27:58] Help us get off the planet.

[27:59] And he goes, can you pay me for it?

[28:00] Yeah.

[28:01] And he goes, we got to rescue a princess.

[28:02] We'll pay you if you do it.

[28:04] Okay, it's as if in that movie they had gotten into a fight.

[28:08] Han Solo saw the fight and said, hey.

[28:11] And then the next scene they're on Han Solo's spaceship and he's like, let's go, boys.

[28:14] And it's like, wait, when did you meet each other?

[28:17] When did you agree to be part of this adventure?

[28:19] You know?

Dan McCoy

[28:19] I do feel like, yeah, like the whole middle section of this movie is when I really kind

[28:25] of started to lose interest.

[28:26] And I think you've put your finger on a big part of why.

[28:29] Whereas like at the beginning, you know, like the lead characters are framed for murder.

[28:36] And I feel like they have a personal stake in things beyond just kind of a generalized,

[28:41] like let's stop this war, which is like a great, don't get me wrong.

[28:47] Let's stop this war is a great motivation, but maybe not for these particular characters

[28:50] who seem to be rogues who just like live off of.

[28:54] And who hate mages.

[28:55] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[28:56] Ridley has an inborn hatred of mages because they rule.

[28:59] And he drools.

[29:00] Yes, exactly.

Dan McCoy

[29:01] So in the middle, I'm like, why do I, why do these characters care about anything they're

[29:04] doing?

S4

[29:05] I do think this movie really was trying to be Star Wars though, right?

[29:10] Oh, for sure.

[29:11] I mean, they have a cantina scene.

[29:12] Yeah.

[29:13] They have a cantina scene.

[29:14] They have an emperor type character who shoots lightning out of his fingers and chews the

[29:19] scenery of every scene that he's in.

[29:20] They have a Darth Vader black armored character.

[29:23] They, I feel like Ridley is basically just Luke and Hans smushed together.

[29:28] And, and snails is basically C-3PO.

[29:31] And, and Marina is a, like a haughty Princess Leia type, except unfortunately nowhere near as

[29:38] competent as Princess Leia was at any point.

Stuart Wellington

[29:41] I have to stress like nine times out of 10, they, they, they try and smush the Luke Skywalker

[29:47] and the Han Solo character together.

[29:49] And it almost always never works.

[29:52] Like the part of what makes those characters fun is that they are different.

[29:56] Yeah.

[29:59] I'm just, here I am just complaining about stuff.

[30:01] Let's get back to Dungeons and Dragons.

[30:03] The movie.

[30:04] Yeah.

[30:05] So they, they, they enlist the aid of an irascible dwarf and escape through the sewers.

[30:11] I mean, we assume they enlist his aid.

[30:13] They have never talked about it.

[30:15] It's just in between scenes that they draft him in, you know, his name is never spoken

Elliott Kalan

[30:20] in this movie.

[30:21] There's almost, they almost never address him directly.

[30:23] I'm not sure they know he's with them for a lot of the movies.

S4

[30:25] At one point they ask, are you going to come with us?

[30:28] And he says, I guess I have no choice.

[30:31] But then he asked for payment, which is a terrible negotiating tactic.

Stuart Wellington

[30:36] Yeah.

[30:38] No, you, you always want to start from a position of weakness.

Elliott Kalan

[30:41] When I, whenever I go into negotiations, I go, let me just put one thing on the table.

[30:47] I have no leverage and I need you much more than you need me.

[30:50] So let's start the bidding.

Stuart Wellington

[30:53] Just to let you know, I would do anything to write for the movies or TV.

[30:57] I do not even need payment.

[30:59] How much do you want to pay me?

[31:02] Okay.

[31:02] So our adventuring party then is relaxing at a tavern.

[31:07] As you guys mentioned, they have now been framed for murder.

[31:11] The murder of Vildan.

[31:13] And Ridley and Marina start to argue and they're reading the scroll.

[31:19] And then somehow they read it correctly and then they both get sucked into the scroll.

Elliott Kalan

[31:23] Somehow, somehow, Marina, no matter how her, her boss, Vildan, couldn't get the scroll to work.

[31:28] And Ridley is like, well, when my dad used to fix wagons, he'd put his hand here and his hand here.

[31:33] And it works.

[31:34] So this scroll, which is keeping the most powerful rod in the universe secure, it somehow works under the same mechanics as a wagon, which is just a funny thing.

Dan McCoy

[31:49] Well, also, how do you figure out what part of a wagon corresponds to a scroll?

[31:54] This is a very good question.

[31:55] I think it's pretty obvious.

[31:56] Stand here and hand here.

Stuart Wellington

[31:58] Okay.

[31:59] Counterpoint from Adam.

[32:00] Very obvious.

[32:02] Okay.

[32:02] No further questions.

[32:03] At this point now, we're left with Snails and Elwood just hanging out.

[32:07] And you're probably like, okay, I wonder if they have a lot of cool stuff to talk about.

[32:10] They don't particularly have cool stuff to talk about.

[32:13] An elf tracker shows up.

[32:14] Who's looking for them?

[32:16] Snails immediately is lovestruck.

[32:19] He will do anything he can to sleep with this elf.

[32:21] Elwood, however, is explaining, no, no, no.

[32:23] He is not sexually attracted to an elf.

[32:25] It's hilarious.

[32:27] So shortly after the elf shows up, Damodar and the Crimson Brigade show up and a brawl starts.

[32:35] Perfect time for Snails and Elwood to sneak the fuck out.

[32:38] What?

Elliott Kalan

[32:39] I had a question for you.

[32:40] So before this cantina, according to my notes, is when Profion implants some kind of a monster into Damodar's head.

[32:47] Yeah, yeah.

[32:48] Damodar fucked up.

Stuart Wellington

[32:49] He fucked up one too many times and he now gets a monster stuck in his head.

[32:52] And what was that monster?

[32:53] Is that a real thing from the game?

[32:54] I know this.

S4

[32:55] Because thanks to the fact that I did rent the DVD, I listened to the director's commentary.

Elliott Kalan

[33:01] Oh, wow.

[33:03] Wow, you really went above and beyond.

[33:05] This is impressive.

[33:05] Well, I mean, okay, so here's the embarrassing thing.

[33:07] I watched this movie.

S4

[33:08] I watched this movie three times.

[33:11] One time and then my wife and I thought, maybe we should watch it again.

[33:15] Maybe you'll think of something else interesting to say.

[33:17] So I watched it a second time.

[33:19] And then I was like, ooh, I should have.

[33:19] Feels like you just wanted to watch it again.

[33:22] I should have listened to the director's commentary.

[33:24] So today we actually put it on for about an hour with the director's commentary.

[33:28] Wow.

[33:28] That's what you've turned me into.

[33:29] Well, that's what I turned myself into.

[33:31] This was my idea.

[33:33] But anyway, in the director's commentary, they refer to this thing as a mind flayer.

[33:39] Which obviously is bullshit.

[33:42] But a mind flayer in the game being a humanoid with basically a cephalopod head that can use as tentacles to suck your brains out.

[33:52] But they referred to this as their version of a mind flayer.

[33:56] So it has no real analog.

Stuart Wellington

[33:59] That's super lame.

[34:00] Illithids are cool.

[34:01] You'd like them, Elliot, because they're kind of like purple Cthulus.

[34:04] And they are powerful psionics.

[34:06] I love tentacles.

Elliott Kalan

[34:07] I love psionics.

[34:09] I love psionics.

[34:09] The hedgehog.

[34:10] And they eat your brain.

[34:10] I love psionic.

[34:11] The hamburger place.

[34:13] Is it all drive-thru?

[34:13] I think it is.

[34:14] Yeah.

[34:14] Yes.

[34:15] I love psionic youth.

[34:17] And Dan, give me some more.

[34:19] What other ones?

[34:19] The Seattle psionics.

[34:21] What other things are there that have sonic in them that I can replace with psionic?

Dan McCoy

[34:26] Booms?

[34:27] Dan, this is what?

Stuart Wellington

[34:28] Yep.

[34:29] Booms.

[34:29] That's what Guile says when he throws his attack at you.

[34:32] Yeah, it says psionic boom.

[34:33] Boom.

[34:35] Which actually wouldn't make sense because it's an attack.

[34:37] It doesn't matter.

[34:38] Okay.

[34:38] So it wouldn't make sense that he's actually a powerful psionic because that would allow him to do such powerful attacks.

[34:46] Attacks that a normal human could never do.

Dan McCoy

[34:48] I love that you told yourself it didn't matter.

[34:50] And then still you couldn't stop.

Stuart Wellington

[34:53] So Snails and Elwood sneak off into the woods.

[34:58] They open up that scroll and then Marina and Ridley pop out of it.

[35:03] Where?

[35:05] Do they kind of explain where they were?

[35:07] They basically just argued the whole time.

Elliott Kalan

[35:10] My guess is that this is a show of either the budget for the movie or something in the editing that I have to assume there was supposed to be some kind of at least scene in that map world or adventure that they have.

[35:22] And it just doesn't happen.

[35:23] And they learn some kind of information from it, right?

[35:26] But we never see any of it.

[35:27] And that's my guess is that either something was scripted and they couldn't afford to do it.

[35:30] Or they did it and it just worked so poorly or the movie was too long and they just cut it out.

[35:35] Yeah.

[35:35] That's my guess.

[35:36] So, yeah.

[35:36] They said we can cut out this adventure that explains what was going on in the map or we can cut the conversation about what kind of mythical creatures Snails and Elwood each prefer to have sex with.

[35:47] They said, well, you can't cut that.

[35:48] That's gold.

[35:48] That's what people want from Deeds.

[35:49] It's hilarious.

Stuart Wellington

[35:50] It's in both their contracts.

[35:52] Yeah.

[35:53] So they learned that in order to get the rod, they first need to get the eye of the dragon, which is a giant ruby.

[35:59] And they have to go to Anteus where it is held by Grandmaster Xylus, the leader of the local thieves guild.

[36:06] Sounds great.

[36:07] So they go to Anteus.

[36:08] They go to a market.

[36:10] Snails is stealing everything that isn't nailed down or snailed down.

S4

[36:14] Like a candelabra.

[36:16] He takes a candelabra and a dead cat and he's not even sneaky about it.

Elliott Kalan

[36:22] I mean at that point, he's not thieving for economic reasons.

[36:24] It's just a compulsion at that point.

[36:26] Love of the game.

[36:26] That's a compulsion.

Dan McCoy

[36:28] Good thieves because earlier when they're like plundering the mage place, like they pick up just a wooden cage with a mouse in it is one of the things they're stealing.

Elliott Kalan

[36:39] They go to rob the magic school and they don't steal everything that snails picks up.

[36:44] Ridley goes, no, no, no, not that.

[36:46] And it's like, so what are you going to take?

[36:47] Like what are you looking for?

Stuart Wellington

[36:50] Every time these thieves go into a new room, they basically treat it like it's a fucking escape room where they like pick everything up, see if there's a fucking combination written on the bottom.

[37:00] While I'm in the background trying to drink from a flask.

S4

[37:03] They needed to lean into the D&D of it and have these two be different classes.

[37:08] Like why are they both thieves?

[37:09] There could be the Ridley competent thief character and then like a comic relief terrible bard or something.

[37:16] Like Marlon Wayans could have been trying to compose songs, heroic songs about what they were doing or anything else because he's obviously a terrible thief from the moment that he shows up.

Elliott Kalan

[37:28] I mean, I hadn't thought about it before, but snails and scales are very similar.

[37:32] Very similar.

[37:33] He could have been a dragonborn bard who is perhaps always singing about how he's blue.

[37:38] Da-boo-dee, da-boo-dai.

[37:39] Da-boo-dai.

Dan McCoy

[37:40] If you want to know what that means, become a MaxFun member and enjoy our bonus content.

Stuart Wellington

[37:45] I think those are actually in the Adventure Zone feed.

[37:48] So if you want to listen to a good podcast that will be occasionally broken up by us doing a podcast, go over and check out the Adventure Zone.

Elliott Kalan

[37:55] I will say listeners of those episodes where we did Adventure Zone stuff will know that I was singing that I'm blue song a lot.

[38:01] It has now infected the other members of my family and my older son, Sammy, will just yell at me, I'm blue.

[38:07] And I have to respond with da-boo-dee, da-boo-dai, da-boo-dee.

[38:10] And then he'll join in.

[38:11] And my wife hates it.

[38:13] And we took some time a couple weeks ago and I was like, let's watch the video for that song.

[38:17] He's like, that's a real song?

[38:18] I was like, yeah, that's a real song.

[38:20] Let me show you.

[38:20] And watch the video for it.

[38:21] And I forgot how ludicrously stupid it is.

[38:24] And how the verses of the song are like, here's a story about a guy who's blue.

[38:29] And all his clothes are blue, too, and his house is also blue.

[38:33] And my son was like, did you write this song?

Dan McCoy

[38:37] Yeah.

[38:38] I was hoping that the punchline of that would be like, so we watched the video and Sammy was like, I don't like this song anymore.

[38:45] Oh, no.

Elliott Kalan

[38:46] He still loves it.

[38:47] Love the video.

[38:47] Love the song.

[38:48] But it was very similar to the songs I make up that are dumb.

Stuart Wellington

[38:52] So anyway.

[38:53] So in the market, they trail a purple guy with an eye in the middle of his head.

[39:02] Adam, what race is this guy?

S4

[39:05] I'm pretty sure they just made this up.

[39:07] I wonder if they just had a pre-existing.

[39:09] All role-play characters are made up.

[39:11] Okay.

[39:11] Well, fair.

[39:12] But it was not brought up in the director's commentary.

[39:15] I sort of came to it to think that maybe they just had a creature design sitting on the shelf already and slapped it on there.

Elliott Kalan

[39:23] Very possible.

[39:24] It is very jarring, too, because there's not that many non-human characters in the movie.

[39:30] And I can't think of any others that are as non-human as that guy.

[39:35] Yeah.

[39:35] Every once in a while in like – go on.

[39:38] No, no.

[39:39] What were you going to say?

[39:40] Every once in a while.

Stuart Wellington

[39:40] I was going to say every once in a while in like the tavern or in that market.

[39:43] Oh, that's right.

[39:44] You'll see like an orc walking around that kind of looks like a turtle.

[39:48] Yeah.

[39:49] And I'm kind of into it because it is – it feels like it's a puppet almost.

[39:53] Like the whole thing's a puppet.

Elliott Kalan

[39:55] I thought that those were kappas.

[39:56] I thought they went to Japan, got a kappa, cast him in the background role.

[40:00] But among – you're right.

[40:03] In the backgrounds every now and then you'll see like a monster person.

[40:05] But this is the only one who's like a speaking part character who's wearing like a heavy latex mask.

[40:11] And it felt very – I was like either do it or don't do it.

[40:13] Don't have one dude be the one with an alien face.

[40:16] Like have a bunch of them, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[40:18] We'll say he's probably a tiefling.

[40:19] Okay.

[40:21] So they eventually get taken before the leader of the Thieves Guild, Grandmaster Xylus, who is played large?

Elliott Kalan

[40:30] Yeah.

[40:30] Well, that's Richard O'Brien.

[40:33] He's a big, decadent, like, you know, sly Englishman.

[40:43] He is the best special effect in the movie.

[40:45] Well, immediately you want more of this guy.

Dan McCoy

[40:48] Apparently, like this is, you know, behind the scenes I read that this is like a kind of a goof on a role that he played on television.

[40:58] Like there was like some sort of –

[41:01] It was a UK game show.

S4

[41:02] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[41:03] I think it was called like the Crystal Maze.

Dan McCoy

[41:06] Yeah.

[41:06] That sounds right.

[41:08] That makes sense.

[41:08] So it's a reference to something that like I can't imagine.

[41:12] I can't imagine that many people saw this and were like, oh, that's Richard O'Brien, let alone realized what it was a joke on.

[41:20] But in and of itself, it's fun.

Stuart Wellington

[41:23] Similar, another parallel to Fellowship of the Ring, it's like when Boromir, played by Sean Bean, picks up the shards of Narsil and he cuts his thumb on the blade and he says, still sharp, which is both a reference to him playing, obviously, Richard Sharp from the Sharps Rifles.

[41:38] And also because he was in a series of Razor commercials where he would nick himself and say, still sharp.

Elliott Kalan

[41:45] Oh.

[41:46] That is such a like Looney Tunes level of cultural reference where it's like it expires almost instantly.

[41:53] And 70 years from now, people will be watching Lord of the Rings and be like, why did they make a point of doing that?

[41:59] And then someone will look it up on a website.

[42:00] Stuart will pop up out of the grave.

[42:03] Yeah.

[42:04] The same way that I would look up on Looney Tunes.

[42:06] I would look up like, why do they say this in Looney Tunes?

[42:09] Oh, cartoons.

[42:10] Oh, that's a reference to a radio show from 1942.

[42:12] Yeah.

[42:12] You know.

[42:13] I'm going to build my whole personality around it.

[42:17] I guess what I'm saying is I like it.

[42:18] But.

[42:19] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[42:19] So Grandmaster Zylist is like.

Elliott Kalan

[42:22] Yeah.

[42:22] I was going to say, Richard O'Brien's greatness.

Stuart Wellington

[42:23] I like him the whole time.

[42:24] Yeah.

[42:24] He's great.

[42:25] He brings a lot of energy.

[42:26] He's fun.

[42:26] And he explains that, of course, if they want the eye, the only way is they have to go through this deadly maze that no one has ever survived.

[42:36] And then.

[42:36] Finally, a dungeon.

[42:37] And of course.

[42:38] So, yeah.

[42:38] We're at a dungeon.

[42:39] So, of course, the first thing this movie does, which there's multiple dungeons in this movie.

[42:43] And every single time, the same thing happens.

[42:45] Ridley goes in by himself.

[42:47] Which the first rule in D&D is you don't split the party.

[42:51] That's one thing you learn.

[42:52] Like, what's the point of having a group of characters with a bunch of different skills that help, complementary skills?

[42:58] You want them all together.

[42:59] But instead, no.

[43:00] Let's just have Ridley, the boringest dude, do the whole adventure by himself.

[43:04] I think you're right.

Elliott Kalan

[43:05] That's the big.

[43:06] One of the things that I'm always amazed by when we watch video game movies is how they try or don't try to include the mechanics of the game into the movie.

[43:14] Like, with Mortal Kombat, where it was like, we're going to come up with a reason why it's a bunch of one-on-one fights in different levels.

[43:21] Like, different locations.

[43:22] But in this one, it feels like they were running away from the game mechanics rather than embracing it.

[43:27] And it is weaker as a result that, like, Ridley is the only one who really does much of anything throughout.

[43:32] Like, Marina does occasionally.

[43:34] But it'd be more fun to see a group of them, like you're saying, using their different skills and playing off each other in that way.

[43:39] And instead, they're falling back instead on the, like, there's a single hero.

[43:44] It's got to be the white guy.

[43:46] He just is naturally the leader and naturally the one heroic one.

[43:50] And so he's the one who's going to end.

[43:51] By the end of the movie, he's like, you know, he's the hero of the Empire.

[43:56] Spoiler alert.

[43:56] And it's – but you're like, I don't really know what he – what was it about him that made him do this?

[44:01] Because he didn't seem to be particularly better at anything.

Stuart Wellington

[44:03] One time.

[44:05] Okay.

[44:06] So he has to go through the maze.

[44:07] The maze involves him avoiding a bunch of traps.

[44:12] There's one where things swing at him.

[44:14] He dodges it.

[44:15] There's one where flame shoots out of the walls.

[44:17] He doesn't get flamed and jumps through a hole.

Elliott Kalan

[44:20] It's really exciting.

[44:21] Because once he figured out how to time one jump in the swinging thing, he was basically fine.

[44:26] And it was – and it went from dangerous to totally doable.

[44:29] And it just was very funny that –

Stuart Wellington

[44:30] And then we're watching him still jump over each single one.

Elliott Kalan

[44:32] And I'm like, even American Ninja Warrior knows when to fucking fast forward.

[44:36] They're like, all they do is cut away.

[44:38] But instead, we got to watch him go through what is no longer a danger to him anymore.

[44:42] While Richard O'Brien looks on going, mm-mm.

Dan McCoy

[44:44] Well.

[44:46] Mm-mm.

[44:47] There was a room where he had to only step on the red painted tiles.

[44:52] Yeah.

[44:52] Like, the only wrinkle at any point was at one point, like, one of the red tiles, like, flips over to yellow.

[44:58] But I was watching it like, what is – so I guess he made this murder, like, maze.

[45:05] But also made it, you know, gentlemanly.

[45:08] It follows the rules.

[45:10] Like, once you figure out that you can step on the red ones, it's fine.

[45:13] Like, it was like, why would you – like, why would you design traps where there's a key to it?

[45:19] Something like that.

[45:20] That's very easy to figure out.

[45:22] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[45:22] I mean, I think the reason why is because he wants to entertain his friends.

[45:27] He's a guy with a lot of friends.

[45:29] He wants to show off his cool trap maze.

S4

[45:31] I think it's in the eye where we first see Ridley's sword as well, and that sword is way too nice.

[45:37] Ridley's whole deal just looks way too good.

[45:41] I feel like we're supposed to –

[45:42] Yeah.

[45:42] We're supposed to understand he's very poor.

[45:44] The narration at the beginning of the movie says that people who aren't mages are essentially slaves.

[45:50] And Ridley has a really nice-looking sword, which is a really bad decision since he's given what we're supposed to understand is the nice sword later.

Stuart Wellington

[45:58] Like, they really –

[46:00] And it looks the same.

[46:01] Yeah.

[46:02] They should have highlighted how crappy it was and or had it, like, break while he's doing these stupid traps.

[46:07] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[46:07] Or cool traps, devious traps.

[46:09] It would have been funny if he's – Richard O'Brien's like, he's never – no one's ever survived this maze.

[46:14] And while he's going through it, he's just besting obstacle after obstacle.

[46:16] And Richard O'Brien's like, did we forget to drug him before he went into the maze?

[46:22] And he just looks over and sees an uneaten cupcake on a tray.

[46:25] He goes, oh, damn.

[46:26] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[46:27] So, of course, Ridley retrieves the eye and Xylus is like, actually, I'm going to break our deal, which is the first of many deals that are broken in this movie.

[46:36] Until the very end when Profion actually upholds a deal, which I was shocked by.

[46:41] So, Xylus decides to break the deal.

[46:45] Just then, the Crimson Brigade barge in, led by who?

[46:50] Damodar.

[46:52] Damodar.

[46:54] Of course, a brawl breaks out.

[46:57] Damodar manages to capture the Skrull and Marina and get out of there.

[47:02] So, our heroes are down one Skrull and down one Wizard friend.

[47:08] So, they're on the run.

[47:09] They bump into Norda, the elf tracker from before.

[47:14] They all decide to join forces.

[47:18] Marina tries to convince – Marina is in a dungeon, Damodar's dungeon, TM, tries to convince Damodar –

[47:25] Damodar's dungeon was also his family restaurant.

[47:28] Yes, Damodar's dungeon.

[47:31] Dine in or dine out.

[47:33] Okay.

[47:33] I feel like –

Dan McCoy

[47:34] Kids eat their weight on Saturdays at Damodar's dungeon.

[47:40] See, I feel like Damodar's dungeon would be one of the games in the list in war games.

[47:44] Like, oh, what do I want to play?

[47:46] Thermonuclear War or Damodar's dungeon?

Elliott Kalan

[47:49] Wait until you beholder these deals.

[47:52] And the computer goes, let's not play that one.

[47:55] It's not that good.

[47:58] Okay, Joshua, whatever you say.

Stuart Wellington

[48:00] So, we get a little bit of body horror here because Marina tries to convince Damodar to let her go.

[48:06] And for a second, you think she might actually convince him.

[48:08] And then these weird worm things shoot out of his ears and attach to her temples.

[48:14] And I'm like, I wouldn't even put somebody else's earbuds in.

[48:18] I wouldn't want that dude putting those things on my forehead.

Elliott Kalan

[48:21] Well, she doesn't really have much of a choice in the matter, I have to say.

[48:25] Okay.

[48:25] Yeah, I guess that's one way to read the scene.

[48:28] It's not like he goes, you can tell me or you can use my weird, my mind flayer ear tentacles.

[48:34] And she goes, I want to do it that way.

[48:36] Yeah, yeah.

[48:36] Let's do it that way.

[48:37] I want the first way.

[48:39] You know what?

[48:39] You'll try anything once.

[48:41] I mean, yeah.

[48:41] When am I going to get the opportunity to do it again?

[48:43] Exactly.

[48:44] It's an experience.

Stuart Wellington

[48:45] Obviously, if you're in her position, you say, I'm just going to tell you, but can you tell everyone else you had to use the tentacles?

[48:51] Yeah, yeah.

[48:52] That's a good point.

Elliott Kalan

[48:53] I want to see him cool.

[48:54] Look, tell your friend to use the tentacles.

Dan McCoy

[48:56] It's fine.

Elliott Kalan

[48:56] It's cool.

[48:57] I'll back you up.

Dan McCoy

[48:58] Yeah, that's probably what happened in real life, you know, but the movie had to print the legend.

Elliott Kalan

[49:01] Oh, so you're saying since this is Dungeons and Dragons based on the autobiography of Marina, you're saying that she was talking to her ghostwriter.

[49:07] She said, oh, no, no, you totally used the tentacles.

[49:09] I would never give up Ridley.

[49:11] Never, never.

[49:11] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[49:13] So the tentacles actually allow him to read her memories, and he figures out exactly what's going on.

[49:20] The good guys decide that they're going to try and infiltrate this camp, this like Damodar's dungeon, as we mentioned.

[49:26] It's in an old fortress.

[49:28] Yeah, yeah.

[49:28] The Crimson Guard here are—

[49:30] The Crimson Guard here are—

[49:30] Damodar's dungeon, a full arcade, yeah.

[49:33] The Crimson Guard are backed up by—

Elliott Kalan

[49:35] And all the football games are on the big TV where they have the three-color projector.

[49:39] Uh-huh.

Stuart Wellington

[49:40] At Damodar's dungeon.

[49:41] Yeah, and if you get enough tickets, you can get the Eye of the Dragon Ruby.

[49:46] Yeah.

[49:47] Or your link back.

[49:48] But you need a lot of tickets.

[49:48] You need a lot of tickets.

[49:49] Yeah, it's a fuckload of tickets.

[49:50] Yeah, you're going there every weekend.

[49:52] Yeah, they serve the pizza on tin plates.

[49:57] That look like little shields.

[49:59] I like them.

Elliott Kalan

[50:00] Yes, at Damodar's dungeon each table gets complimentary popcorn baskets.

[50:06] Damodar, are they bottomless popcorn baskets?

[50:08] Well, the baskets have bottoms where the popcorn would spill.

[50:11] But yes, you do get free unlimited refills.

[50:14] Damodar's got a little sense of humor.

[50:15] Yeah, Damodar's like the host.

[50:17] He's a nice guy.

[50:17] Does he wait all the tables?

[50:20] It's his place, and he likes to drop in and kind of mingle with the crowd and play with the kids.

[50:24] That makes sense.

[50:25] Like, COVID's so hard right now.

[50:26] It's so hard to find staff.

[50:27] It makes sense that Damodar is doing all that.

[50:29] The weird thing is that he wants – people are like, that's Damodar.

[50:32] He owns the place.

[50:33] But at the front, instead of a celebrity picture, he has his headshot signed, and it says,

[50:37] I love my restaurant, Damodar.

[50:39] And it's like, it's not that impressive to get your own picture on there.

Stuart Wellington

[50:42] Yeah, and everyone's like, he doesn't even have a picture of Profion?

[50:45] And like, because Profion didn't give him one.

[50:47] Profion's never been there.

Elliott Kalan

[50:48] And Damodar will tell you that he didn't ask.

[50:50] But you know he asked, and Profion just didn't.

[50:52] Of course he asked.

[50:53] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[50:55] Okay, so the Crimson Brigade here are backed up by a few beholders who kind of are like floating watchdogs.

[51:03] And they never – but they never fight the heroes, which I kept waiting for it.

[51:07] They never fight the heroes.

[51:08] So Snails and Ridley sneak in, and Elwood's like, fuck yeah, let's get in there.

[51:13] And Nord is like, nope.

[51:15] For whatever reason, this is their quest by themselves.

[51:19] Again, very strange choice.

[51:22] Okay.

[51:24] They explore the dungeons.

[51:26] Snails gets caught in a rug quicksand trap and is attacked by Damodar.

[51:30] I thought this was cool.

[51:31] This was a cool practical effect.

S4

[51:34] And that pit that they made was actually full of oatmeal.

[51:40] Yeah.

[51:40] It was delicious.

[51:41] They used oatmeal.

[51:42] And then they flocked to the top of it, and then I guess like airbrushed it.

Dan McCoy

[51:47] Now, Adam, if you expected that my eyes would pop out of my head and my steam would shoot out of my ears at that revelation, you would be incorrect.

[51:58] Because while this effect, I agree, looks cool at the beginning, when they step into a thing that looks like a rug, by the end you can tell that Marlon Wayans is floating in a bunch of oatmeal.

Stuart Wellington

[52:08] Well, what happened was Dan was eating a bowl of oatmeal while watching this scene, and he kept looking down and looking at his spoon, and he's like, son of a bitch.

[52:18] And then Dan pushed away.

Elliott Kalan

[52:20] He goes, what if there's a tiny Marlon Wayans in there?

[52:22] And he pushes it away.

[52:23] I can't risk it.

[52:24] Pushes it.

[52:26] I can't risk it.

[52:27] After enjoying his work and wrecking him for a dream, I can't.

[52:31] I can't.

[52:33] Wayans brothers were already a limited resource as it is.

[52:36] I can't endanger it further.

[52:38] There's a new generation, Elliot.

[52:41] Marlon does – he does get to spend a lot of time wandering around picking up props and riffing on them.

[52:46] It's great.

[52:47] And it is – it goes on for a while.

Stuart Wellington

[52:49] It goes on forever.

S4

[52:50] And this is the scene too where when Damodar comes in, he delivers my favorite line.

[52:55] I had to write it down.

[52:57] Just like you thieves, always taking things that don't belong to you.

[53:03] Yep, that's what a thief is.

[53:05] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[53:06] Websites defines you as –

[53:07] No shit.

[53:08] Well, there are a lot of very dumb lines in this.

[53:13] You're making me recall earlier when they're going through the maze and people are like betting on them.

[53:17] And Marina's like, I can't believe they're betting like –

[53:22] They're betting on how long he'll stay alive.

[53:24] How long he'll stay alive.

[53:25] And he goes, no, my dear.

[53:27] They're betting on how long it will take him to die.

[53:29] And I'm like, those are the same thing in this scenario.

Elliott Kalan

[53:32] It's a real glass, half full glass, half empty type situation.

[53:36] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[53:36] There's a certain pessimism that infuses the thieves' guild of Anteus.

[53:39] Okay.

[53:40] So, meanwhile, Ridley finds Marina and they fight their way through some guards.

[53:47] Ridley does a lot of spinning around, swinging that beautiful sword we mentioned before.

[53:52] Marina hits dudes with a flaming brand.

[53:56] And then he gets in a fight with one bigger guard than normal.

[54:01] Snails manages to briefly escape from Damodar.

[54:04] He goes running outside.

[54:06] Perfect place for a little wrestling match where they –

[54:10] Basically, Damodar doesn't really have a weapon for a while.

[54:13] He just kind of like bats him aside with his like styrofoam armor.

[54:20] Ridley and Marina show up just in time for Damodar to best snails.

[54:24] And they try and do an exchange.

[54:28] Snails throws them the scroll and gets stabbed in the back and then thrown off the top of the tower.

[54:33] So, snails, X'd out.

[54:34] He's dead.

[54:35] Unless somebody's got a dish spell.

[54:40] Ridley briefly fights Damodar.

Elliott Kalan

[54:42] It was a real snail fail when he tried to go after Damodar.

[54:46] Yeah.

S4

[54:48] That's what the DVD chapter title was, was snail fail.

Elliott Kalan

[54:52] Snail fail.

[54:54] Oh, that was – that's a job that I wish –

[54:57] there was this brief shining moment when it was someone's job to name the chapters of movies for the DVDs.

[55:04] And I always wondered who did that.

[55:05] Was it just somebody who was working on the box?

[55:07] Did they go to the director or the screenwriter and say,

[55:09] Look, I know it's weird for you to think of every scene in this as having its own title,

[55:13] but can you do that right now?

[55:15] And now it doesn't exist anymore because people don't use – they don't make DVDs at the same volume that they once did.

Stuart Wellington

[55:23] Okay.

[55:23] So, Damodar has –

[55:25] Best said –

[55:26] Damodar manages to get –

[55:28] He stabs Ridley.

[55:29] Wait, I have one more question.

Elliott Kalan

[55:30] Guys, why do you think they started titling the chapters when they could have just had numbers?

[55:35] Because no one expects the parts of a movie to have titles.

Dan McCoy

[55:38] I mean, it gives you some indication.

[55:40] It gives you some indication where you left off.

[55:42] You can skip to the thing you like.

[55:45] I guess you can skip to the part you want.

[55:47] You can skip to the part where Dalton explains his rules.

[55:50] Be nice.

[55:50] Yeah, that's the chapter title.

Stuart Wellington

[55:52] It's also so that when you're flipping through the menu with your friends and you see a scene that you remember,

[56:00] you're like, Oh, that's what they named it.

[56:02] They named it Snail Vale.

Elliott Kalan

[56:04] They did it.

[56:04] But it's like they thought they were like, Okay, from now on, movies are like songs.

[56:08] We're not watching the whole thing all the way through.

[56:10] We're just going to our favorite scenes and we can make a playlist of scenes from different movies.

[56:15] Yeah, let me just put my DVD player on shuffle and see what scenes pop up.

[56:19] Well, you have kids, Elliot.

S4

[56:20] Isn't that the way your kids watch movies anyway?

[56:23] Yeah, my kid only just watches the same scene over and over again.

Elliott Kalan

[56:27] There's a lot of watching the same scene over and over again, skipping between.

[56:31] All right.

[56:32] Yeah.

[56:33] It's usually these short films I find on the internet.

[56:36] Sue watches the first 13 minutes of the same scenes over and over again.

[56:40] Never gets to the ending, though.

[56:42] Yeah.

[56:42] Well, to be honest, Stuart watches the first like six minutes and he knows that minutes seven through 30 are pretty much the same thing in different positions.

[56:49] And then he just rides that 10-second skip button.

[56:51] So he just, yeah, until he gets to the last like 45 seconds.

[56:55] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[56:56] Mainly because I like the funny faces they make.

Dan McCoy

[56:59] And that movie we're talking about is, of course, Breakfast at Tiffany's.

[57:03] Now let's move on.

Stuart Wellington

[57:03] So Damodar is super excited.

[57:06] He's managed to save the day.

[57:08] But before he can kill Ridley, he gets blasted by some wizard powder from Marina.

[57:13] So he just opens a portal and he bounces.

[57:16] He's super excited.

[57:18] Okay.

[57:19] Marina and Ridley escape using another batch of portal dust.

[57:23] We get a fun zoom in on snail's dead body lying in ruins at the bottom of a cliff.

[57:31] For a second, I thought he was going to get up.

[57:33] But no, he's dead.

[57:34] It's really just a hammer that home.

[57:36] Maybe that was the zombie zoo part.

[57:39] Yeah.

[57:39] That would make sense because a snail is an animal.

[57:42] Okay.

[57:43] You would see a snail in a zoo depending on the zoo.

[57:46] Sure.

[57:46] I guess.

[57:47] Maybe.

Elliott Kalan

[57:47] Go to the Los Angeles Zoo.

[57:48] I bet you there's at least one snail in the lair.

[57:50] That's the living amphibians, invertebrates, and reptiles house.

Stuart Wellington

[57:57] Sounds like the place I'd hang out.

[57:59] Yeah.

[58:00] Yeah.

[58:01] Okay.

[58:01] So meanwhile, the Empress is attempting to...

[58:04] You know, guys, let's stop and go there right now.

[58:06] Let's do it.

[58:07] I think it's a good idea.

[58:09] Meanwhile, the Empress is attempting to end the class divisions between commoners and mages

[58:13] by appealing to the Council of Mages.

[58:17] Seems like a bad idea, but that's Congress for you.

[58:20] Profeon, however, just keeps showing up and pointing out and calling her an evil tyrant,

[58:25] basically being a jerk, a lot of bad faith arguments, and she storms off.

[58:30] And so we are left with the feeling that there is definitely going to be a civil war between

[58:34] the mages and people that are loyal to the Empress.

[58:37] Luckily, the Empress has gold dragons, which are unstoppable, super powerful, super smart

[58:42] wizard dragons.

[58:43] Right, Adam?

S4

[58:44] Yeah.

[58:45] In my estimation, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[58:47] Okay.

[58:48] So it's going to be an easy fight.

[58:49] We'll see what happens.

Elliott Kalan

[58:50] They keep talking, maybe it's a show of how bad the class divisions are in the world,

[58:55] is that they keep talking about a civil war, and it's really just a war between the like

[58:58] 30 mages and the Empress and the dragons, and nobody else seems to be involved, except

[59:02] I assume they're getting crushed by dragon bodies as they fall from the sky.

[59:06] And rotten pieces of masonry.

Stuart Wellington

[59:09] Yeah, then they swarm the dragon body to get the delicious dragon meat.

Elliott Kalan

[59:13] Okay.

[59:14] So in D&D, what happens in D&D if you eat a dragon?

[59:17] You become a dragon.

[59:18] Yeah.

[59:19] Really?

[59:19] Is that what happens?

S4

[59:20] I'm just making stuff up now.

Elliott Kalan

[59:21] Oh, okay.

[59:22] Nope.

[59:23] Elliot would have believed it.

[59:24] I mean...

[59:24] I had a new retirement plan briefly, and then...

Dan McCoy

[59:26] If you ate a whole dragon, you'd probably die.

[59:31] You would never eat a whole dragon, Dan.

[59:33] That's what I'm saying.

[59:33] That's insane.

[59:34] Well, you asked, what happened if you eat a dragon?

[59:36] Well, I don't know.

Elliott Kalan

[59:36] Am I allowed to freeze it and eat it over time?

[59:39] Like, a wedding cake, you can eat that for years.

[59:42] I don't think you're going to get through it.

Stuart Wellington

[59:43] I mean, if it's blood sets things on fire, I'm guessing it's hard to get it down to freezing

[59:47] temperature.

[59:48] Yeah.

[59:48] Well, that's why you would do it kosher style.

[59:50] You drain all the blood first.

[59:51] Unless you got a white dragon.

[59:52] You make sure a rabbi's there.

[59:53] The what?

[59:54] Unless you got a white dragon to breathe its frost breath on it.

[59:57] Mm-hmm.

[59:58] Okay.

[59:58] So get a white dragon.

[59:59] Or just eat the white dragon.

Dan McCoy

[1:00:00] I mean...

[1:00:01] Refrigeration is limited.

[1:00:02] That's true.

[1:00:03] That's a very good thinking, Adam.

[1:00:05] Oh, okay.

[1:00:06] Yeah, that's better.

[1:00:06] You'd probably need to cure it in some way.

[1:00:09] Is it sick?

[1:00:10] To preserve it back then.

[1:00:11] Yeah.

[1:00:12] Because I don't want to eat a sick dragon.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:13] Well, you need a salt dragon to breathe its salt breath on it.

[1:00:16] Yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:16] You need a dry brine or a wet brine dragon to breathe its brine breath all over.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:22] And then a Cajun Spice dragon just to...

[1:00:24] Oh, wow.

[1:00:24] Oh, that sounds great.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:25] Or like a Chipotle dragon.

[1:00:26] Yeah, yeah, sure.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:27] Oh, I guarantee that'll be delicious.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:29] So, um...

[1:00:29] Yeah, you get a Paul Prudhomme dragon.

[1:00:32] Now, of course, they go around in those little carts.

[1:00:35] But it's still a caramel dragon.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:36] Yeah, the Paul Prudhomme dragon is the good version of the spicy dragon.

[1:00:40] Yeah.

[1:00:41] Whereas Dr. John would be the evil version.

[1:00:44] Not mistakenly...

[1:00:44] Really interesting.

Dan McCoy

[1:00:46] Don't get a Dom DeLuise dragon by mistake.

[1:00:48] They're very easy to get...

[1:00:49] Very similar.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:50] That Zennifer Reynolds dragon is just going to slap it a lot of times.

[1:00:53] You don't want to see that.

[1:00:54] That's not fun.

[1:00:55] I can't want to see that.

[1:00:56] I have a question, guys.

[1:00:57] I have a question that's kind of related to this because you mentioned Dr. John.

[1:01:00] Do you think Captain Hook and Dr. Hook still talk because they're brothers?

[1:01:03] Or are they estranged?

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:06] Yeah, I mean, I'm sure they talk.

[1:01:08] I bet they're...

[1:01:09] Yeah, I mean, I bet there's quite a bit of rivalry because they both insist on being called by their title as opposed to their first names.

[1:01:16] Yeah, that's fair.

[1:01:16] Now, the Blues Traveler's on the Hook.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:18] Which hook is that about?

[1:01:19] Captain Hook or Dr. Hook?

[1:01:22] The one that brings you back?

[1:01:25] So which one is that?

[1:01:26] So Captain Hook because he has a boat.

[1:01:28] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:29] He does have a boat.

[1:01:30] Okay.

[1:01:31] So they take Ridley to the elves.

[1:01:33] He's been mortally wounded, or so you think, because the elves are going to heal him with magic.

[1:01:37] They don't use magic.

[1:01:38] No, no, no.

[1:01:39] We get a lecture on how dragons, magic, life, all that shit's connected.

[1:01:43] It binds us.

[1:01:45] It's the force, et cetera, et cetera.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:48] And did you catch who was playing that elf giving that very pretentious, condescending sermon about magic?

[1:01:54] Oh, is this where...

[1:01:55] Yeah, I caught it.

Dan McCoy

[1:01:56] But what was his name?

[1:01:56] What's his fate?

[1:01:57] That's right.

[1:01:57] Doctor Who?

[1:01:58] Or the Doctor.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:58] That's Tom Baker, the famous bescarved doctor from Doctor Who.

[1:02:02] Tom Baker as a really smug elf.

[1:02:06] Just a smuggled elf with his little elf ears being, we don't use spells because we're so in tune with magic.

[1:02:12] Everybody is except humans, you losers.

[1:02:14] Anyway, goodbye now.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:16] I feel like smug is part of the racial traits of elves, right?

[1:02:21] I mean, I didn't say it.

[1:02:23] I don't want to get canceled.

[1:02:24] I'm comfortable with that.

[1:02:26] Elves can cancel me.

[1:02:27] Okay.

[1:02:28] Here's another question, Stuart.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:30] The character Smog in The Hobbit, the dragon, what if he was called Smug, and instead of breathing fire, he was just kind of like a dick.

[1:02:37] He was just really full of himself.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:39] Benedict Cumberbatch, surprisingly, would be also very good at that.

Dan McCoy

[1:02:42] Yeah.

[1:02:43] Yeah.

[1:02:43] You're right.

[1:02:43] He could do that role.

[1:02:44] The way that Stuart's face perked up as soon as you introduced a question about smog.

[1:02:49] And, you know, to his credit, as soon as it was clear that it was not a genuine question about smog, it didn't really, his face didn't fall.

[1:02:56] He still got to talk about smog.

[1:02:58] Yeah, yeah.

[1:02:58] He was happy either way.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:00] Now, I do have a real question about smog.

[1:03:01] He's got all those jewels all over his tummy, and that's why that archer has to find the one spot where he doesn't have one.

[1:03:06] Oh, bar's over.

[1:03:06] Did he do that on purpose, or is it just because he's always lying on top of those jewels?

[1:03:12] He's got a bedazzler.

S4

[1:03:14] He's got like a really big bedazzler.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:15] Oh, okay.

[1:03:16] That is.

[1:03:17] He goes, you know how it is.

[1:03:18] You start with a little bit, and you just can't stop.

S4

[1:03:21] Well, I mean, he started with a denim jacket, and then he looked at that like, that's nice, and maybe I'm just going to go ahead and do that on my tummy.

Stuart Wellington

[1:03:27] Do my skin.

[1:03:28] Why can't I be like that all the time?

[1:03:31] It hurts for a while, but it's worth it.

[1:03:33] And like, the first couple, you get on Etsy, you know, it seems normal, and then after a while, you're just, you got jewels all over you.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:40] Yeah, I might as well just de-jazzle myself.

[1:03:43] That's when a dragon puts gems all over themselves.

[1:03:47] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:03:47] Oh, okay.

[1:03:49] Yeah.

[1:03:49] Okay.

[1:03:50] So, Ridley, obviously, super bummed.

[1:03:53] His boy Snails is dead.

[1:03:55] So, Marina is like, I'm going to lecture you a little bit, then we'll make out, which they do.

[1:04:00] Did anyone else think that the elf place, it was basically just Endor?

[1:04:04] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:04] Yeah, it was probably Endor, right?

[1:04:05] Like, it just looks like they took a picture of a background from Return of the Jedi, and that's where they're hanging out at night when they talk.

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:11] Later on, they, like, wander out of the elf place, and we see two, like, elf guards that have super weird, like, half masks made out of bones.

[1:04:19] They look so frightening.

[1:04:20] It was cool, yeah.

[1:04:21] They walk right out of yellow jackets.

[1:04:22] Very weird.

[1:04:23] Yeah.

[1:04:23] Yeah, it was very cool.

[1:04:25] I'm like, ooh, who's going to play for them when they're older?

[1:04:29] Okay.

[1:04:29] The same people.

[1:04:30] They live for hundreds of years.

[1:04:32] Oh, right.

[1:04:33] Just like in yellow jackets.

[1:04:35] Yeah.

[1:04:35] Okay.

[1:04:37] What if, wait.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:38] Okay, guys, hold on.

[1:04:39] Season two yellow jackets.

[1:04:40] Here's my pitch.

[1:04:41] Okay, yeah.

[1:04:42] I'm right.

[1:04:42] There's a jump.

[1:04:43] It turns out whatever happened to them in the forest, they're immortal now.

[1:04:46] So we do jump 300 years in the future.

[1:04:49] Right.

[1:04:50] And it's, they're now, they still haven't told anyone their secrets, but they're on the run even more because now people want the secret of eternal life from them.

[1:04:58] So that's my pitch.

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:59] Oh, okay, yeah.

[1:05:00] It's like a Tuck Everlasting type thing?

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:02] Exactly, exactly.

[1:05:03] Tuck Everlasting, but meets, you know, Yellow Jackets, which I call them.

[1:05:10] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:12] Yeah, yeah.

[1:05:13] No, the pitch is great, Ellie.

[1:05:14] You're doing a good job.

[1:05:15] Yeah.

[1:05:16] Okay, that sounds great.

[1:05:17] Anyway, so I don't.

[1:05:18] Do I have to give you money?

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:19] What are you trying to do?

[1:05:20] Yeah, I'm going to say, will you hire me now to do that second season of Yellow Jackets?

[1:05:24] All I have so far is it's Tuck Everlasting, but Yellow Jackets.

[1:05:27] Does that work?

Dan McCoy

[1:05:28] Now, the Tuck, the Tuck that died, how did, how did, how did that end up happening?

[1:05:35] Like, because eventually, or, or.

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:37] I think Christopher Lambert chopped his head off.

[1:05:39] That's one of them.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:40] Yeah, I think that's the only way it can happen, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:05:42] Or do they just leave town once it becomes clear that they're immortal?

[1:05:46] Yeah, I think that's what happens.

[1:05:47] That's Tuck Ever leaving.

[1:05:48] Yeah, they bounce.

[1:05:48] Okay, because, you know.

[1:05:50] All right, well, then I won't make a joke about the cause of death being an everlasting Tuck stopper.

[1:05:55] Let's move along.

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:56] Okay, so, as they, when they leave the, meanwhile.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:00] Dan, I thank you for your restraint and not making the joke.

[1:06:03] I appreciate that.

[1:06:04] You're welcome.

[1:06:04] When you found that it was uncalled for due to the logic of the original property, you didn't make the joke.

[1:06:08] And I really, I really appreciate it.

[1:06:10] But you made sure that we knew you weren't, which I also appreciate.

Dan McCoy

[1:06:12] That's truth in comedy.

[1:06:13] That's integrity.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:15] That's what a comedian is for.

[1:06:17] Yeah, to tell the uncomfortable truths about Tuck.

Stuart Wellington

[1:06:22] So, Marina and Ridley have a little emotional argument followed by a hookup.

[1:06:28] That mischievous imp that we've come to love as watching the whole thing.

[1:06:32] And he's reporting back to his boss, Damodar.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:35] So, what do you think he's reporting back to Damodar?

[1:06:37] That they're macking?

[1:06:38] Like, what information does he have?

Stuart Wellington

[1:06:41] He's like, you haven't crushed their spirits entirely, master.

[1:06:44] You gotta see this.

[1:06:45] It's hot.

[1:06:45] You gotta see it.

[1:06:46] Gives them a real play-by-play.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:48] And Damodar's like, Ridley and Marina?

[1:06:51] Never would have expected it.

[1:06:53] This is outrageous.

[1:06:54] Tell me more.

[1:06:55] Because Ridley hates me.

[1:06:58] Okay.

[1:06:59] Now, guys, is this, is it, is it offensive of me?

[1:07:03] And maybe this is something Alex should cut out.

[1:07:04] That I assumed, I assumed Damodar was gay the entire time.

[1:07:07] Not in a, not in any negative way.

[1:07:09] But just maybe because he reminded me so much of Rob Halford.

[1:07:11] I just assumed this character is gay and I liked that about him.

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:14] I mean, I don't know if I would say it's wrong of you.

[1:07:16] But also, I can't, I don't think I can be the, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:20] I can't really be the, I can't judge you.

[1:07:21] Well, stick my head in that cannon and shoot it all the way to,

[1:07:24] shoot it all the way to where it needs to go to make that happen.

[1:07:26] So.

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:29] Okay.

[1:07:29] So, we leave.

[1:07:30] Ridley gets, the elves give Ridley a new sword.

[1:07:33] We talked about, it is slightly nicer though, right?

[1:07:36] I mean, it's nicer.

S4

[1:07:37] I mean, his original sword should have been a real piece of shit.

[1:07:41] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:42] It was not as big a step up as you'd think for a sword that magic elves give to him.

[1:07:46] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:47] Now, luckily, we now have an adventuring party, right?

[1:07:50] We got a wizard, we got a rogue, we got a dwarf fighter, and we have an elf ranger.

[1:07:54] Perfect.

[1:07:55] Let's go to our first dungeon.

[1:07:56] Soon as they get there, only Ridley's able to go.

[1:07:59] There's a wall of force preventing the others.

[1:08:01] It's pretty weird.

[1:08:03] I guess we'll roll with it.

[1:08:04] Again, we split the party.

[1:08:06] Ridley wanders around for a little bit before going down a slide and coming to a cool dragon door.

[1:08:10] He sticks the eye of the dragon in the door.

[1:08:12] The door opens.

[1:08:13] Hooray.

[1:08:14] He goes in there again, filled with treasure.

[1:08:16] He thinks about stealing it for a second to honor his boy's nails, but then he decides,

[1:08:19] you know what?

[1:08:20] I'm going to leave this shit.

[1:08:22] Over in the corner, there's a skeleton holding the, what is that?

[1:08:25] The rod of Savril?

[1:08:26] Hell yeah, it is.

[1:08:26] That skeleton starts talking to him.

[1:08:28] Turns out that skeleton is Savril, and he's like, yo, whoever uses this thing, bad shit's

[1:08:32] going to happen to him.

Dan McCoy

[1:08:34] And I love this skeleton, because the skeleton is just like a puppet that talks to the man,

[1:08:39] and then as soon as he imparts as much exposition about this rod as he needs to, his head just

[1:08:45] sort of like slows down.

Elliott Kalan

[1:08:47] Like the puppeteer has clearly dropped the head.

[1:08:50] This is a Pirates of the Caribbean, the ride level talking skeleton, and he's maybe my third

[1:08:56] favorite character in the movie.

[1:08:58] Yeah, it's very true.

[1:08:59] After, I think, after Xylas and Damodar, I think.

[1:09:02] Oh no, Profion's on there too.

[1:09:04] Look, okay, let's just say-

[1:09:05] You can have four favorites.

[1:09:07] Yeah, well, I mean, at number one, let's just say Overdramatic Englishman.

[1:09:11] That's just number one at the top.

[1:09:13] And then number two will be this skeleton.

[1:09:15] And then number three would be, I guess, the imp that's always laughing, because at least

[1:09:18] he's enjoying it.

[1:09:19] He's having a good time.

[1:09:20] Adam, who are your three favorite characters in the movie at this point?

S4

[1:09:23] I mean, definitely.

[1:09:25] I'm not even going to say Profion, because I'm not even 100% sure that I have his name

[1:09:28] right, but Jeremy Irons is my favorite character in the movie, and I liked Xylas.

[1:09:35] Yeah, the movie didn't give me a whole lot more to work with.

Stuart Wellington

[1:09:39] I'm going to say Elwood, of course, because Elwood's a dwarf.

[1:09:41] I like Nordic, because Nord is an elf, and I like snails, because he's dead.

[1:09:48] And when characters are dead, they loom larger in your imagination.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:51] Yeah, like Uncle Ben.

[1:09:52] Yeah, sure.

[1:09:54] Uncle Ben from Spider-Man, not Uncle Ben, the rice mascot who lives in the heart of pots

[1:09:58] everywhere.

[1:09:59] And by that, I mean Annie Potts.

[1:10:01] Not like rice pots, Annie Potts.

[1:10:02] And Dan, what about you?

[1:10:04] Three favorite characters?

Dan McCoy

[1:10:04] I think that this guy's my favorite.

[1:10:06] Later on, there's sort of like a skeleton, a baby skeleton dragon who jumps onto Thorbergs,

[1:10:16] and it's like CGI, and it's clearly just like a loop of the same CGI movements.

Stuart Wellington

[1:10:21] Dan, are you describing the thing that Wikipedia defines as powerful magics?

[1:10:28] Yeah, it could be.

[1:10:30] In the plot, it's like that one.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:32] So, in summary, all of our skeletons, and of two of the people asked this question, who

[1:10:41] are your three favorite characters?

[1:10:42] Two of them could only mention two characters.

[1:10:44] They failed to even come up with three that reached the list.

[1:10:46] So, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:10:47] So, he gets the rod of Savril.

[1:10:50] It looks pretty cool.

[1:10:51] I want to talk about how this rod looks.

S4

[1:10:54] What are your thoughts about the look of the rod of Savril?

[1:10:57] Because I think it looks like H.R. Giger designed a back massager.

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:01] It does look like that.

[1:11:02] I mean, that only sounds good to me.

[1:11:04] I imagine it would pummel my back into relaxation with kind of mechanoid penises.

Dan McCoy

[1:11:09] The various rods in this movie all kind of look similar to what Loki carries around in the

[1:11:16] Avengers, but, you know, obviously on a Dungeons & Dragons movie budget.

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:23] Yeah, this one, I have to say, this rod of Savril, I imagine something more rod-like.

Stuart Wellington

[1:11:28] Yeah, more like a bad dragon sex toy.

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:31] Yeah, or like a batleth.

[1:11:33] You know what?

[1:11:33] It looks like a combination of a Klingon batleth and that blade codpiece from Seven that Kevin

[1:11:42] Spacey has commissioned because, of course, they don't mass produce those.

[1:11:45] And then forces someone to use it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:11:46] The poor Leland Orser.

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:48] Yeah, yeah.

[1:11:49] So, when it showed up, they were like, the rod of Savril, and I'm like, is that really

[1:11:53] a rod?

[1:11:54] I don't know if I'd call that a rod.

[1:11:55] It's like, maybe it's not even really a staff.

[1:11:58] I got thrown off by that.

[1:11:59] It's poor terminology, in my opinion.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:03] Earlier on, there was like, you know, a line that's, you know, I saw it in the closed

[1:12:08] caption, because I, too, have old ears and put the closed captioning on, and it said, like,

[1:12:13] what does this rod do?

[1:12:15] And I just find it very, I was laughing at it, and Audrey's like, what are you laughing

[1:12:18] at?

[1:12:18] I found it very hard to explain, because it's not really that funny, but something about

[1:12:23] this fantasy world putting so much weight on the word rod.

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:29] It just seems like the most low-rent way to describe it.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:34] Staff would have been nice.

[1:12:36] Yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:37] Considering everyone else gets kind of a silly fantasy name, that this is just a rod is a

[1:12:43] bit much.

[1:12:44] A rod that looks like it could go in the dishwasher if it gets dirty.

[1:12:47] Yeah, it looks, I mean, top shelf.

[1:12:51] It looks like it could go in the top rack.

[1:12:53] Bottom rack might be a little dangerous for it.

[1:12:54] Yeah.

[1:12:54] But yeah.

[1:12:55] Okay, so...

[1:12:56] So, Dan, what would you have called it?

[1:12:58] Let's play the game that I like to call Dan on the Spot Improv.

[1:13:02] Dan, what would you have called...

[1:13:03] Also, the name of the segment is also Dr. Dan Movie Fixer.

[1:13:07] Dan, what would you prescribe as a new...

[1:13:09] Dr. Dan as a new name for the rod of surreal?

Dan McCoy

[1:13:13] Well, staff would have been acceptable, but also, like, why don't you do, like, a scepter?

[1:13:18] A scepter of surveillance?

[1:13:19] Oh, yeah, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:13:21] Scepter of red dragon control?

[1:13:23] Yeah.

[1:13:25] Okay, so, Ridley takes, despite the warnings of the skeleton, he takes the rod, and then

[1:13:32] he looks over and he sees a pretty badass painting on the wall.

[1:13:36] Adam, you're a professional artist.

[1:13:38] How would you describe the badass mural that's been painted on the wall of this treasure room?

S4

[1:13:44] I guess I would lose the ass part of it and just refer to the painting as kind of bad.

Stuart Wellington

[1:13:49] Oh, wow.

[1:13:49] Is it because some of the dragons look like they have six packs?

[1:13:52] I'm kind of into that.

S4

[1:13:54] There were so many D&D artists in 2000 that would have made you an amazing mural, probably

[1:14:01] for free, because even though, I mean, doing art for D&D and Dungeons and Magic the Gathering

[1:14:08] and stuff like that, I always enjoyed it, but there was always a sense in my mind that, like,

[1:14:12] okay, this is what I'm doing for a living right now until I can get to write and illustrate

[1:14:16] children's books, which I can't seem to break into.

[1:14:19] It took me several years.

Dan McCoy

[1:14:20] Until I can get into fine art dragon painting.

[1:14:24] Right.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:26] Yeah, to get a commission from the Medicis to paint the portrait of their dragon, yeah.

S4

[1:14:30] But being in that world and knowing a lot of D&D artists, I knew that a lot of them were doing

[1:14:34] what they had dreamed that they would do since they were five years old.

[1:14:40] And so I was a little offended that they hadn't gotten just the top-of-the-line D&D illustrator

[1:14:46] at the time to just really do it up for them.

Stuart Wellington

[1:14:48] The mural kind of looks like the mural that the owner of an Italian restaurant would get

[1:14:52] their, like, nephew to paint, where they're like, I want Tony Soprano, the Joker, Scarface,

[1:15:00] I want all of them hanging out on a table together.

[1:15:04] Put a second Joker in there, but not the Jared Leto one.

[1:15:08] No, no, no.

[1:15:10] And they got to be laughing.

[1:15:11] They got to be having a fucking ball.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:13] And you know, up in the clouds, there's angels looking down, and those are my kids' faces on

[1:15:18] the angels.

[1:15:18] I know it implies that my kids are dead, but it's not.

[1:15:21] It's because I love them so much that they're angels.

[1:15:22] They're angels, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:23] Okay, so...

[1:15:25] And then, of course, I want...

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:27] And then A-Rod as a centaur.

[1:15:30] You got to have that in there also.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:32] Yeah, you got to get Derek Jeter in there.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:33] Yeah, but he's got to be mid-swing.

[1:15:35] That's the important part.

[1:15:36] Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[1:15:37] Yeah, because they looked in the rulebook and they said, nothing that says a centaur can't play.

[1:15:41] Now, Dan, you've gone on the record as disliking the word rod.

[1:15:45] What would you call A-Rod then?

[1:15:47] A-staff, a-ceptor?

[1:15:49] It doesn't make sense.

[1:15:49] His name's not Alex Staff-Riguez, you know.

[1:15:52] So what are you going to do?

Dan McCoy

[1:15:53] I don't think that this...

[1:15:56] I don't think I said that this is a rule that has to be applied equally across all media and types of people.

[1:16:04] Okay, that's fair.

[1:16:04] Okay.

[1:16:04] Although the word rod, I think that a big part of my problem with it is it always reminds me of The Simpsons in not one but two ways.

[1:16:12] Number one, the inanimate carbon rod.

[1:16:15] And number two, rod of Rod and Todd.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:18] Because I kept thinking of Rowdy Roddy Piper and started thinking about what would a Rowdy Roddy Piper have control over?

[1:16:24] What kind of dragons?

[1:16:25] And it would have made even more sense if there were zombies.

[1:16:27] Since in They Live, the aliens look like zombies.

[1:16:29] But, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[1:16:31] Okay.

[1:16:31] It didn't happen, I guess.

[1:16:32] So after staring at this harrowing scene painted across the treasure room wall, we cut back to...

[1:16:38] What was it trying to communicate?

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:39] Just that dragons are trouble?

[1:16:41] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:16:42] Okay.

[1:16:42] We cut to the skies above Sumdall where a civil war is raging between Thora Birch's army of gold dragons and the council of mages who are atop the, what, tower of mages?

[1:16:55] Wizard tower?

[1:16:56] I don't remember what it's called.

[1:16:56] Yeah.

[1:16:57] And there's a lot of, like, fireblast...

[1:16:58] It's the Mage Business Center.

Elliott Kalan

[1:17:00] Mage International Business Center.

[1:17:01] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:17:02] They fire a giant ballista bolt through one of the gold dragons who falls and then gets...

[1:17:07] After getting shot, falls and gets speared through its stomach by the, what, the peak of a building.

[1:17:14] Thora Birch rides a dragon around, right?

Dan McCoy

[1:17:16] Would you call her a mother of dragons, Stuart?

Stuart Wellington

[1:17:19] Yeah, I would say so.

[1:17:20] I mean, she does have...

[1:17:21] She does do this cool thing similar to that one J-Lo look from the Met Gala.

[1:17:26] Where she has, like, a chainmail coif over her head.

[1:17:31] Yeah, yeah.

[1:17:31] It's dope.

[1:17:32] Because it kind of makes it look like her hair is armor.

[1:17:34] It's really sick.

[1:17:36] But she doesn't ride a dragon yet.

[1:17:37] She waits till things get a little bit hairier.

[1:17:40] And Jeremy Irons right now is fucking...

[1:17:43] He's flipping out.

Elliott Kalan

[1:17:44] He's having a great time.

[1:17:45] I was worried he was going to give himself a stroke or an aneurysm or something.

[1:17:48] He is projecting so hard through his face.

Dan McCoy

[1:17:53] I mean, the level of professionalism that the man brings to this thing, which he must have sensed as being Jeremy Irons was a disaster, is admirable.

[1:18:05] Because he's, you know, like, he only is in a few scenes, but he is really doing primo villain yelling.

S4

[1:18:12] I assume that he signed on because he thought they were adapting Jane Austen's Dungeons and Dragons.

[1:18:19] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1:18:21] But then later I learned that it was actually because he had just recently bought a castle and really, really needed money.

[1:18:27] Yeah, that was his quote on it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:28] He was like, I just bought a castle.

[1:18:31] I better get some experience with dungeons before I move in.

[1:18:34] I'll take this role.

Stuart Wellington

[1:18:35] And who knows, once you get a castle, the dragons just start showing up at your door.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:41] I mean, the real trouble was he thought he bought a castle and he went.

[1:18:44] It was just a DVD box set of castles starring Nathan Fillion.

[1:18:47] And he was like, I can't live in this.

[1:18:49] I sold my house.

[1:18:50] I can't move into a DVD set.

[1:18:52] Yeah.

[1:18:53] He was like, this is likable, but yeah.

[1:18:55] Well, he tried to make a little hut out of the DVD boxes and he would lull himself to sleep by looking up at them and reading the chapter titles for each of the episodes.

[1:19:04] And he later referred to it as maybe the best time of his life, you know, because he really figured out what he needed in his life, which was shelter that would be like a house.

[1:19:14] Yeah.

[1:19:15] But I always wonder with roles like this, is an actor like Jeremy Irons enjoying it?

[1:19:21] Like, I feel like if you're doing this role, you're being an evil wizard in a kind of a garbagey movie.

[1:19:26] You have as much, I assume the fun part would be to do it as big as possible.

[1:19:30] Yeah, yeah.

[1:19:30] But I was wondering if it's like, is he enjoying doing that?

[1:19:32] If you asked him afterwards, would he be like, or would he be like, oh, oh, I'm just trying to keep it alive.

Stuart Wellington

[1:19:39] Well, I remember years ago when this movie first came out on DVD, I remember renting it and watching all the special features.

[1:19:45] And there's definitely like a making of featurette where you see Jeremy Irons doing one of these big scenes.

[1:19:51] And then literally as soon as they cut, he like drops entirely and storms off.

[1:19:57] It's amazing.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:58] I guess that answers that question.

[1:20:00] So you don't have one of those interviews where he's like, Profion is a character who is drawn to power.

[1:20:06] Like, I always love when you watch the interviews.

Stuart Wellington

[1:20:09] I don't see Profion as a villain.

[1:20:10] No.

Elliott Kalan

[1:20:12] From Profion's point of view, Izmir needs order and needs a hierarchy.

[1:20:17] There's whenever – I've talked about this in the podcast before that my favorite thing when they make a comic book movie is watching the interviews where actors are not familiar with the comic books until they read them to prepare for this role.

[1:20:27] They'll have to talk about their understanding of like who Rogue is or like who – Storm is a powerful character.

[1:20:35] She's one with the elements.

[1:20:36] I think that's – I always think that's really funny.

[1:20:38] So anyway.

Stuart Wellington

[1:20:39] Okay.

[1:20:39] So back to Ridley.

[1:20:42] He leaves the dungeon only to find that Damodar has arrived thanks to his mischievous little imp friend.

[1:20:49] And Damodar has captured the adventuring party and they make yet another deal for stuff.

[1:20:56] Yeah.

[1:20:57] He gives Damodar the Rod of Savril.

[1:21:02] Damodar bounces.

[1:21:03] We get a brief brawl where our heroes do some flipping and kicking.

[1:21:09] Norda in particular seems very good at doing those things.

[1:21:11] She should be involved in more of the fights.

[1:21:13] Not going to happen.

[1:21:15] Okay.

[1:21:16] So Damodar goes through a portal quickly followed by Ridley.

[1:21:20] Okay.

[1:21:20] We got – we're in the end game here, guys.

[1:21:23] Meanwhile, Thora Birch is now riding on the back of a gold dragon.

[1:21:27] And Profion uses the rod given to him by Damodar to summon his own army of red dragons.

[1:21:33] So now gold dragons are like the good version of red dragons.

[1:21:36] Gold dragons breathe fire.

[1:21:37] So do red dragons.

[1:21:38] Just to clear that up in case you guys weren't familiar.

Elliott Kalan

[1:21:41] Wait, I don't understand how that makes gold dragons the good version of – that they both breathe fire.

Stuart Wellington

[1:21:46] But they're like – if you use an ability like maybe you're a cleric or something and it gave you the ability to detect alignment, the alignment of the gold dragon would be good.

Dan McCoy

[1:21:57] So as it breathes fire on you, you could be like, oh, they must have a good version of this.

[1:22:01] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:22:03] He's in the right here.

[1:22:04] Maybe I'm the baddie.

[1:22:06] Yeah.

[1:22:06] I just – I thought it was strange the way you said it.

[1:22:08] It was like if you were like sharks – you said dolphins are the good version of whales.

[1:22:12] They both are blowholes.

[1:22:14] And I'd be like, well, just because they share a feature doesn't mean one is good and one is evil.

Stuart Wellington

[1:22:18] It's not a quality.

[1:22:20] It's more of like an ethical thing.

[1:22:22] Yeah.

[1:22:22] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[1:22:24] So –

[1:22:25] No, both possums and – both possums and koalas are marsupials.

[1:22:29] Koalas, of course, are the good and possums the evil.

[1:22:32] Yeah.

[1:22:33] I mean that's arguably not wrong.

Stuart Wellington

[1:22:36] Like if you look at those creatures – okay.

[1:22:39] No, no.

Elliott Kalan

[1:22:39] Here's the thing.

[1:22:40] Koalas – this is the classic story because koalas look cute but they are jerks whereas possums look like horrible little rat monsters and they are very loving.

[1:22:48] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[1:22:50] Cool.

[1:22:50] So if there's any possums listening, Elliot's down.

[1:22:54] You guys should hang out.

[1:22:55] Okay.

[1:22:56] I thought you were going to apologize.

[1:22:57] No, apparently.

[1:22:58] No, I'm not going to apologize.

[1:22:59] Fuck that.

[1:22:59] Hook up Elliot with some possums.

[1:23:00] Stuart, if there are any possums listening –

[1:23:02] Cancel me.

[1:23:02] I don't care.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:03] I don't care.

[1:23:03] If there are any possums listening, go to Elliot because Stuart doesn't give a shit.

[1:23:10] The doctor is out.

Stuart Wellington

[1:23:12] Okay.

[1:23:13] So –

[1:23:13] But those possums need medicine, Stuart.

[1:23:16] Nope.

[1:23:17] I do want to point out that when Damodar has our heroes captured and he requires –

[1:23:24] requires Ridley to give him the rod.

[1:23:26] As soon as he gets the rod, he's like, eh, fuck it.

[1:23:30] Kill them all.

[1:23:30] You know, he breaks the deal.

[1:23:32] There's been a lot of deal breaking.

[1:23:33] So that when Damodar then goes to see Profion and he's like, I found you the rod master.

[1:23:37] Now take this thing out of my head.

[1:23:39] I was like 100% sure Profion was going to be like, fuck that dork.

[1:23:44] Yeah.

[1:23:44] But instead, Profion's like, no, okay, that's cool.

[1:23:46] That's fair.

[1:23:47] Hey, I'm lawful evil.

[1:23:48] I'm not chaotic evil.

[1:23:51] So he removes the thing from Damodar's head, which is great because Ridley shows up.

[1:23:55] He and Damodar have a great sword fight, okay?

[1:23:57] And that's when we get to see that elf sword at work because when he swings it, we get a little bit of extra special effects.

[1:24:04] Yeah.

[1:24:04] Like a little bit of extra lasers and stuff.

Dan McCoy

[1:24:06] And I really enjoyed seeing Jeremy Irons beat up our lead because, again, in terms of charisma, Irons is a much more charismatic performer.

[1:24:16] And, as we just saw, keeps his promises.

[1:24:19] So, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[1:24:20] Yeah.

[1:24:20] Yes, exactly.

[1:24:21] At one point, Jeremy Irons casts a spell by just, like, blowing on one of the heroes.

[1:24:26] And I'm like, that's showmanship.

[1:24:28] Okay.

[1:24:28] So Ridley fights Damodar.

[1:24:32] This fight goes a little bit differently than the last one because, as I mentioned before, he does a flip, stabs Damodar in the back, pushes him off the tower where we watch him fall to his death.

[1:24:42] Then he gets in a fight with Profion.

[1:24:46] As the scuffle goes on, our other heroes show up to try and stop Profion.

[1:24:51] He beats them all.

[1:24:53] Unfortunately, in the process of beating up all of our heroes, he has lost the scepter, or the rod scepter.

[1:25:00] Even I'm confusing it.

[1:25:02] It's a rod's two.

[1:25:03] He loses the rod.

[1:25:04] Let's be honest with ourselves.

Dan McCoy

[1:25:05] It's never going to be more than a rod.

[1:25:07] He loses the rod, which means that the child will be spoiled because he will be spared.

Stuart Wellington

[1:25:13] That's the way it works.

[1:25:14] Ridley picks up that rod and he shatters it with his sword, which I feel like he should have done that as soon as they found it.

[1:25:21] But he shatters it, which disrupts the army of red dragons and allows Thora Birch to land at the Tower of Mages.

Elliott Kalan

[1:25:31] What if instead of controlling red dragons, it just controlled the rights to the Thomas Harris novel, Red Dragon?

[1:25:39] Very valuable.

[1:25:39] And so, Profion's like, finally, I can do the job Brett Ratner screwed up.

[1:25:44] Manhunter is good, but they didn't really have the resources they need to do it justice.

[1:25:49] Season three of Hannibal's pretty good, too.

[1:25:52] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:25:53] He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but they stretched it out too long.

[1:25:55] They stretched it out too long.

[1:25:56] Anyway, like I'm saying, I'm going to do the definitive adaptation of Red Dragon now that I have the rod of Severus.

Stuart Wellington

[1:26:03] So the Empress shows up and at first we're like, uh-oh, now he's going to get it.

[1:26:08] But instead, Profion uses powerful magics, which is displayed by a computer-generated skeleton dragon that like, I guess, starts like wrestling with Thora Birch.

Dan McCoy

[1:26:20] It's pretty cool.

[1:26:21] Jumps on like it wants a piggyback ride.

[1:26:24] Uh-huh.

Elliott Kalan

[1:26:24] Yeah, actually, I thought it was one of those where I was like, that wasn't what I expected.

[1:26:28] So I thought that looked kind of cool.

[1:26:30] Not the magic I expected him to use.

Stuart Wellington

[1:26:32] And then despite being bedeviled by magic skeletons, a gold dragon arrives to help and chomps down on Profion.

[1:26:41] And our heroes win the day.

[1:26:42] They get cool level-up outfits.

[1:26:45] They are standing at the grave of snails, which is a beautiful monument.

[1:26:50] Which is just a cairn of stone.

Elliott Kalan

[1:26:51] It's just a easily toppled cairn.

[1:26:55] It's a very strange monument.

Dan McCoy

[1:26:56] We hear Thora Birch being like, now I pronounce everyone equal.

[1:27:01] Which I laughed at because I get why as a political leader, you have to make an official pronouncement to try and usher in a more equitable society.

[1:27:14] But at the same time, the line makes it sound like, well, everything's good now.

[1:27:21] And I'm like, would that it were that easy?

[1:27:23] I don't think that an equitable society can just be wished into existence, Thora Birch.

[1:27:29] But thanks for trying.

Stuart Wellington

[1:27:31] If anyone's bad, she'll just have the gold dragons eat them, Dan.

[1:27:33] I guess so.

Elliott Kalan

[1:27:34] It's one of several moments near the end of the movie where you wonder why they didn't just get to it.

[1:27:38] Like, Ridley shows up.

[1:27:40] Profion is clearly the boss bad guy.

[1:27:42] And he is busy controlling these dragons.

[1:27:44] And Ridley goes, Damodar!

[1:27:46] And he starts fighting him.

[1:27:47] It's like, just go after Profion.

[1:27:49] Damodar is small fish.

[1:27:50] You only need him to get to the big fish.

[1:27:52] Damodar killed his friend's nails, dude.

[1:27:54] It's true.

[1:27:54] Yeah, but you could deal with that afterwards.

[1:27:56] And then when the dragon eats Profion, it's like, this could have happened 15 minutes ago.

[1:28:01] I don't know why.

[1:28:03] He hasn't had those red dragons for a while now.

[1:28:05] Just eat them.

Dan McCoy

[1:28:06] But we got to get into the great last scene.

[1:28:08] The scene that had me going, what?

Stuart Wellington

[1:28:10] Yeah, so they're standing in the graveyard.

[1:28:13] They're standing before, again, this beautiful tombstone made for snails.

[1:28:18] Just a pile of rocks.

[1:28:19] They're all in new upgraded outfits.

[1:28:22] They've clearly gotten to another level.

[1:28:26] Oh.

[1:28:26] Yep.

[1:28:27] Okay.

[1:28:28] And Ridley is about to be knighted, he says.

[1:28:30] Mm-hmm.

[1:28:30] Ridley's about to be knighted.

[1:28:33] He places the eye of the dragon, Ruby, onto the cairn of stones.

[1:28:40] And he makes a wish or some shit.

[1:28:43] And then a little bit of magic happens.

[1:28:45] And Snail's name falls from the monument.

[1:28:49] And they're like, what?

[1:28:50] And Norda, the elf, is like,

[1:28:52] yeah, your friend's alive now.

[1:28:54] And so they all hold hands.

[1:28:55] And then they turn into dust.

[1:28:57] And that's the end of the movie.

S4

[1:28:59] Norda literally tells Ridley and the audience not to question it.

[1:29:05] I feel like her skill in the movie is hand-waving.

[1:29:07] She tells Elwood earlier that, no, you can't go in.

[1:29:10] This is something they must do on their own.

[1:29:13] And then later on, it's like, don't do not question this gift.

[1:29:18] Just accept it.

[1:29:19] The movie's over now.

Dan McCoy

[1:29:20] And this is a setup for, it was intended to be a trilogy, a trilogy that will never be realized.

[1:29:27] Dungeons and Dragons 2, The Search for Snails.

[1:29:29] There were sequels.

[1:29:30] Did you guys know there were sequels?

[1:29:32] Oh, right, right.

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:33] I knew there was a direct-to-DVD one, right?

S4

[1:29:35] There was a direct-to-TV sci-fi sequel.

[1:29:40] And then I think a third one that might have been direct-to-DVD.

[1:29:45] But the only reoccurring character in the second one is Damodar.

Stuart Wellington

[1:29:49] Ooh.

[1:29:50] Even though he was killed in this one.

S4

[1:29:52] Maybe not.

[1:29:52] It's revealed that Profion made him an undying slave to him of some kind.

[1:30:01] And so Damodar cannot die and is there in the second movie as well.

Stuart Wellington

[1:30:07] Now, I never saw the sequels.

[1:30:09] My friend Greg kept swearing to me.

[1:30:11] He's like, the first one was a good – the second one's actually really good, dude.

[1:30:14] You should check it out.

[1:30:15] I never got around to it.

[1:30:16] Adam, I'm assuming based on the level of professionalism you've already displayed,

[1:30:20] you've already watched these movies for this episode.

S4

[1:30:23] I had to, obviously, in order to be able to do illustrations for Dungeons & Dragons.

[1:30:28] I had to consume everything.

[1:30:30] I watched the old cartoon.

[1:30:32] I watched the sequels.

Stuart Wellington

[1:30:34] Yeah.

[1:30:34] I mean, even the character design doesn't look of a piece with the Wizards of the Coast Dungeons & Dragons stuff.

[1:30:44] I feel like even by then, people like Wayne Reynolds had done so much of the character design work that this doesn't look like that.

S4

[1:30:52] This looks like – I feel like it looks like an earlier time of D&D, but it was not of a piece of what they were putting out in the year 2000, which was kind of – I guess that was sort of my high time for when I was working with them.

[1:31:08] I mean, they had a big old style guide at the time, just hundreds of pages showing you really intricate details about how elf fashion should look different from human fashion.

[1:31:19] It should look different from dwarf fashion.

[1:31:21] And it was all very thought-out stuff that did not find its way into this movie at all.

Stuart Wellington

[1:31:27] Yeah.

[1:31:27] That's kind of what I was wondering from your standpoint.

[1:31:30] Like, when you're watching something like this, is it hard for you not to try and break it down and be like, I would have designed this differently?

[1:31:37] I mean, obviously, you're going to say you'd design all this stuff differently, except for maybe Thor Birch's cool little thing at the end.

[1:31:42] I like that.

[1:31:43] But yeah, I feel like it would be hard as an artist not to be like, why did they do it this way?

S4

[1:31:48] Well, I mean, as an artist too, pretty much every shot I was like, hmm, they should have composed that differently.

[1:31:54] They should have composed that differently.

[1:31:55] Yeah.

[1:31:55] So –

Elliott Kalan

[1:31:56] Should have fit more magic items into that shot.

[1:31:58] It's – the aesthetic of the movie I think I would describe as Halloween adventure.

[1:32:04] Like, there's not that much I feel like you couldn't get by just going to a pop-up Halloween store and just, you know, loading up on their fantasy costume stuff.

S4

[1:32:12] Oh, they definitely visited a spirit Halloween store at the beginning when they apparently just were tossing skulls into every corner of Profion's lair.

[1:32:23] And I'm not even talking about the Sedlec ossuary.

[1:32:27] We didn't mention that, right?

Elliott Kalan

[1:32:29] Oh, yeah.

[1:32:29] That part of it was shot in a real ossuary that's decorated with skulls and skeletons everywhere in the Czech Republic.

[1:32:34] Yeah.

[1:32:35] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:32:35] I do want to say that, like, it's a – the movie's aesthetic is a weird mix, though, in the sense of, like, all the effects definitely look janky.

[1:32:45] Like, the practical effects look silly.

[1:32:47] The CGI looks silly in the way that, you know, early CGI where you did not have a lot of resources looks goofy.

[1:32:54] But at the same time, like, this was, in effect, an independent movie.

[1:32:59] The guy who directed it and wrote it, like, threw together all this funding and made special deals with, you know, the effects people to do things on a budget.

[1:33:12] And so it's got this weird combo of, like, well, it doesn't look good.

[1:33:16] It all looks dumb.

[1:33:17] But at the same time, it all looks more impressive than you would expect for the budget that they had.

[1:33:23] Like, there's a lot of – it is an ambitious failure, I guess, is the best way of putting it.

[1:33:31] And I think maybe some of it would have looked better if the director knew what he was doing lighting-wise.

[1:33:38] Like, there were scenes in it where I'm like, why did you do it this way where – like, I remember there's a scene where Marlon Waynes, like, you know, finds his mark.

[1:33:47] To, like, pick up an important piece of things and see him walking directly into a shadow that covers his face rather than, like, maybe walking from the shadows to have his face illuminated.

[1:33:58] I mean, it's a small thing, but all of this, like, really cheap stuff also looked, I assume, all the worse because they didn't know how to hide how cheap it was.

S4

[1:34:07] It's funny that you mentioned lighting because having watched the director commentary, I can tell you that it is 90% talking about how each scene was difficult to light.

[1:34:17] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:34:19] What are some of the reasons that it was difficult to light?

[1:34:21] Was it – I mean, partly because it was his first movie, I imagine.

S4

[1:34:24] Well, I don't know if it was the director of photography's first movie.

[1:34:27] I haven't looked that up.

[1:34:28] Oh, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:34:28] But –

[1:34:29] It was the director's first movie, maybe not the crews, yeah.

S4

[1:34:31] Some of it, from what I gleaned, was that, you know, some of the practical, like, the real-world settings that they were using in different parts of Prague were just so large.

[1:34:44] You know, they –

[1:34:45] Right.

[1:34:46] The Wizards Council scenes are set in an actual opera house that was difficult to light, apparently, just because it was so big and had such intensely high ceilings.

[1:34:56] And there was a lot of talk about just the library and different places that they had found in Prague that were difficult to make look good.

Stuart Wellington

[1:35:09] I wonder if you go to an opera, if there's, like, a little, like, plaque somewhere that's, like, as seen in the movie, Dungeons & Dragons.

[1:35:15] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:35:16] Probably.

[1:35:16] Well, that's – like, it seems like maybe the key mistake was that he used all of those resources to try and do something epic rather than just to be, like, okay, what's a smaller version of a Dungeons & Dragons movie I can make?

[1:35:31] And, like, scrounge and, like, do it the smartest way, like – but with, like, a smaller scale.

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:37] Yeah.

[1:35:38] I mean, I think he had – it sounds like he had had this story or something like it in his head for a long time.

[1:35:43] Although I remember reading somewhere that he had written another script that was more budget conscious but that the producers wanted him to use an earlier script or something.

[1:35:51] There was a lawsuit or something.

S4

[1:35:53] I read this too that I don't understand law enough to understand why a lawsuit would require you to use an earlier draft of the script.

[1:36:01] But that is what I read.

Dan McCoy

[1:36:03] At one point, I think they were going to sort of turn it into, like, a television thing.

[1:36:09] But there was a provision that it was supposed to be an actual movie movie.

[1:36:15] And that may have been why it had to inflate it.

[1:36:18] It does look like a television thing.

[1:36:20] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:36:20] It does.

[1:36:21] And then – but if you're right, they could have done a Dungeons & Dragons movie that is not epic in scope but is about, like, an adventure party going through a dungeon.

[1:36:29] Going through a dungeon, yeah.

S4

[1:36:31] I really wanted to – I mean, this kept on making me just wonder what a D&D movie – what makes a movie a D&D movie?

[1:36:38] And, like, what could it be and what should it be?

[1:36:41] And, you know, did they need to, like, Jumanji this up?

[1:36:45] That it was actual players getting pulled into the world?

Elliott Kalan

[1:36:50] Or I don't know.

[1:36:50] What do you think?

[1:36:51] I think that the – I mean, part of it, it is hard because I was thinking about this while I was watching that, like, D&D is not a property that has, like, beloved characters necessarily or, like, beloved storylines.

[1:37:02] Like, it's a world that you create your story and characters for.

[1:37:05] So it feels like you kind of want to – I guess like I was saying earlier, like, incorporate some kind of plot that resembles the game mechanics.

[1:37:12] So it feels like an adaptation of what it's like to play the game.

[1:37:15] I mean, kids – people getting – players being sucked into the game is essentially what the TV show was, the old cartoon.

Stuart Wellington

[1:37:21] And the, like, Kieran Gillen comic Die is basically the same shit.

Elliott Kalan

[1:37:25] Yeah.

[1:37:26] And that Tom Hanks made-for-TV movie where he gets driven insane by role-playing games from the 1980s.

[1:37:33] Mazes and Monsters, yeah.

[1:37:34] Mazes and Monsters, yeah.

[1:37:35] But I think, like, if you – there are so many kind of, like, old, not good barbarian movies where there's, like – they're very D&D type where it's, like, a barbarian going through dimly lit passageways fighting monsters.

[1:37:50] And there's usually, like, a girl he has to save and a treasure of some kind or an evil wizard to fight.

[1:37:56] Yeah, evil wizard played by a Carradine.

[1:37:59] Yes, probably.

[1:38:00] It was part of Italian law that you needed to get a Carradine to do it.

[1:38:04] But the – it feels like there's a – there's, like, a higher budget version of that.

[1:38:09] And it was only while researching this movie after watching it that I found out that there is a new Dungeons & Dragons movie coming out, like, this year, I think.

[1:38:18] Or next year.

[1:38:19] So it's – we'll find out, I guess, what a –

[1:38:21] Is Joe Mancinello in this one?

Stuart Wellington

[1:38:22] I really hope so.

[1:38:23] That guy loves D&D so much.

Elliott Kalan

[1:38:25] What I read was that he was apparently a big force in trying to get it off the ground, but I don't know if he's actually in it.

[1:38:31] Chris Pine is listed as the – Chris Pine and Michelle Rodriguez are in it.

[1:38:35] Hugh Grant is listed as a star in it.

[1:38:36] You know he's going to play an evil wizard like that.

[1:38:38] He's perfect.

[1:38:39] I assume, you know.

[1:38:41] Hot off of Paddington, too.

Stuart Wellington

[1:38:43] I mean, he's perfect.

Elliott Kalan

[1:38:44] Yeah.

[1:38:45] And maybe Paddington will be in this movie.

[1:38:46] Maybe there'll be a Paddington D&D crossover.

[1:38:48] That makes sense.

[1:38:49] But there's talking bears in the D&D world, right?

[1:38:51] I know they're owl bears, right?

Stuart Wellington

[1:38:52] Mm-hmm.

[1:38:53] Owl bears, I don't think, talk, though.

[1:38:55] Unless you speak owl bear.

[1:38:57] All right.

[1:38:57] I don't.

John Hodgman

[1:39:00] Did your neighbor back into your car?

[1:39:03] Bring that case to Judge Judy.

[1:39:05] Think the mailman might be the real father?

[1:39:07] Give that one to Judge Mathis.

[1:39:09] But does your mom want you to flush her ashes down the toilet at Disney World when she passes away?

[1:39:17] Now that's my jurisdiction.

[1:39:19] Welcome to the court of Judge John Hodgman, where the people are real, the disputes are real, and the stakes are often unusual.

Elliott Kalan

[1:39:26] If I got arrested for dumping your ashes in the Jungle Cruise, it would be an honor.

John Hodgman

[1:39:31] I don't want to be part of somebody getting a super yacht.

Stuart Wellington

[1:39:33] I don't know at what point you want to go into this, but we've had a worm bin before.

John Hodgman

[1:39:37] Available free right now at MaximumFun.org.

[1:39:40] Judge John Hodgman.

[1:39:42] The court of last resort when your wife won't stop pretending to be a cat and knocking the clean laundry over.

[1:39:48] Hey, kid.

Dan McCoy

[1:39:49] Did your dad tell you about the time he broke Stephen Dorff's nose at the Kids' Choice Awards?

S6

[1:39:55] In Dead Pilots Society, scripts that were developed by studios and networks but were never produced are given the table reads they deserve.

John Hodgman

[1:40:03] When I was a kid, I had to spend my Christmas break filming a PSA about angel dust.

[1:40:07] So yeah, being a kid sucks sometimes.

S6

[1:40:10] Presented by Andrew Reich and Ben Blacker.

[1:40:13] Dead Pilots Society, twice a month on MaximumFun.org.

Elliott Kalan

[1:40:18] You know, the show you like.

[1:40:19] That hobo with the scarf who lives in a magic dumpster.

[1:40:25] Doctor Who.

[1:40:26] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:40:29] The Flophouse is supported by listeners like you, but we also have some beautiful advertisers in this episode.

[1:40:38] One of them is Squarespace.

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[1:41:24] And when you're ready to launch, use the offer code FLOP to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

Stuart Wellington

[1:41:33] This podcast is also sponsored by BetterHelp Online Therapy.

[1:41:38] We talk about therapy a lot.

[1:41:40] And one of the big obstacles with mental health in general is that people view therapy as something to look to when they are having trouble.

[1:41:51] And it's important to consider seeing a therapist as a form of maintenance, maybe before you're in a rough spot.

[1:42:00] I don't know about you, but I think I'm like many people where I had been relying on a lot of different coping mechanisms in my life.

[1:42:10] And when the pandemic hit, a lot of those coping mechanisms either kind of went away or they just became overburdened.

[1:42:18] And seeing a therapist online has been really helpful for me to kind of get myself centered again.

[1:42:26] And that's the type of thing that BetterHelp offers.

[1:42:29] It's customized online therapy that offers video, phone, or live chat sessions with your therapist.

[1:42:37] That type of thing is very convenient for me because I like having to physically go somewhere is another obstacle for me with therapy.

[1:42:46] I like being able to just be in a comfortable place to speak with a mental health professional.

[1:42:53] And yeah, so why don't you give it a try and see why over 2 million people have used BetterHelp online therapy.

[1:43:02] So the podcast, this one, the one you're listening to right now is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[1:43:06] And Flophouse listeners can get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com slash flop.

[1:43:13] That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P dot com slash flop.

[1:43:19] F-L-O-P, baby.

Elliott Kalan

[1:43:23] But baby is not part of the URL, right?

[1:43:28] Don't put the baby in.

[1:43:29] Yeah, no, no.

[1:43:29] Don't throw the baby out.

[1:43:31] Save the baby.

[1:43:32] Don't put it in a corner.

[1:43:34] Nobody should do that.

[1:43:35] Yeah, all things.

[1:43:37] PSA.

[1:43:38] Nobody should put a baby in a corner.

[1:43:40] And hey, we're also sponsored by ourselves.

[1:43:43] What do you mean by that?

[1:43:44] Well, I'll tell you.

[1:43:45] We've got another Flophouse live show.

[1:43:47] Remember that show I mentioned at the top of the show?

[1:43:49] I'm mentioning it again.

[1:43:51] March 19th at 9 p.m.

[1:43:52] Eastern, 6 p.m.

[1:43:53] Pacific.

[1:43:54] We're going to be appearing live on your computer screen if you log in.

[1:43:58] Unfortunately, we can't lawnmower man our way onto your screen and just take over.

[1:44:03] Or lawnmower our way on.

[1:44:05] Or a lawnmower will not help you with a computer.

[1:44:07] That lawnmower man movie, it really created an incorrect notion in a lot of people's minds that lawnmowers could get you onto the internet.

[1:44:15] It's not how it works.

[1:44:16] Not what the title means.

Stuart Wellington

[1:44:17] Yeah, I mean, I keep showing up to Apple stores and I'm like, hey, where are all your lawnmowers?

Elliott Kalan

[1:44:22] Man.

[1:44:24] They love that.

[1:44:25] Yeah, they love it.

[1:44:26] Yeah.

[1:44:26] So anyway, Saturday, March 19th at 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific.

[1:44:31] We're going to be live online.

[1:44:32] We're talking about the movie Masters of the Universe.

[1:44:36] For our first live show in several months, many months, we're going to be talking about a movie that I know I saw in the theaters but have not seen since.

[1:44:45] We're going to talk probably about our memories of the He-Man characters.

[1:44:48] Again, a show I watched religiously as a kid that I have very few memories of.

[1:44:52] So I'm excited to watch this movie and see if it actually turns out to be great.

[1:44:56] I mentioned on Twitter the only thing I remember about the movie is that at one point they eat chicken.

[1:45:00] So we'll see if that scene is as important as it looms in my imagination and my memory.

Stuart Wellington

[1:45:06] So Dan, are you going to cosplay as everyone's favorite character?

[1:45:10] He-Dan?

[1:45:11] Or are you going to be Danny Faces?

[1:45:14] Or Ram-Dan?

[1:45:17] Or Moss-Dan?

Dan McCoy

[1:45:20] Beast-Dan?

[1:45:21] You're really making a meal out of the fact that my name rhymes with man.

[1:45:24] Dan-a-tor?

[1:45:25] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:45:27] Skele-a-dan?

[1:45:28] Well, I can't do like –

[1:45:29] If you've seen –

[1:45:30] Like I can't change Teela to Stula, right?

[1:45:33] That's crazy.

[1:45:34] You can do whatever you want, man.

[1:45:35] You could be Stula-tor.

[1:45:36] I believe in you.

Dan McCoy

[1:45:37] Yeah, you're Stula-tor.

[1:45:37] Oh, Stula-tor.

Elliott Kalan

[1:45:39] Or Hore-Dan and his amazing Hort or whatever the guy's name was called.

[1:45:44] He was more of a She-Ra villain, I guess.

[1:45:45] So if you've seen our previous live shows, you know there's going to be an opening Power Park presentation from each of us.

[1:45:51] That's going to be really funny.

[1:45:52] We'll do a Q&A chat with the audience at the end of it.

[1:45:54] There'll be some kind of funny bit in the middle, TBD.

[1:45:57] And most importantly of all, you'll get our honest, unvarnished opinions of the 1987 Masters of the Universal.

[1:46:05] Taking on the relevant issues of the day.

[1:46:08] We don't care whose toes we step on.

[1:46:11] In today's world, there's nothing more relevant, nothing more important than the 1987 film Masters of the Universe.

[1:46:17] So you want to buy tickets?

[1:46:18] Go to theflophouse.simpletix.com.

[1:46:21] That's theflophouse.simpletix.com.

[1:46:24] If you can't make it on March 19th, don't worry.

[1:46:28] Buy your ticket and it will get you access to a week's worth of time with the recording of the show.

[1:46:33] Well.

[1:46:35] I don't think the purchase of the ticket buys you the time, per se, but yes.

[1:46:40] It'll give you an extra week of life.

[1:46:42] When you buy the ticket, you will have access for one week afterwards to a recording of the show so you can see it after the fact.

[1:46:49] After that week, the recording will disappear into the ether, never to be seen again.

[1:46:53] Nothing but a memory like tears in the rain just dripping away and evaporating.

[1:46:58] And once everyone who's seen the show dies, there will be no record of it ever again.

Dan McCoy

Elliott Kalan

[1:47:03] And so make yourself one of those people who sees it and will someday die.

[1:47:07] Saturday, March 19th, 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific.

[1:47:10] Masters of the Universe, the Flophouse style.

[1:47:12] Again, that's theflophouse.simpletix.com.

[1:47:15] Go buy your ticket today.

[1:47:17] You're going to regret not doing it if you don't do it.

Dan McCoy

[1:47:19] Yes.

[1:47:20] And we have no Jumbotrons this week, but if you want to get up on the Jumbotron, remember you can do so by visiting MaximumFun.org slash Jumbotron where you can purchase a personal message for $100 or a promotional one for $200 before we do the ads at the end.

[1:47:39] So before we let Elliot go, rest his voice.

[1:47:43] You guys have anything to plug?

Elliott Kalan

[1:47:45] I'll continue to plug my current comic book series, Maniac of New York, The Bronx is Burning from Aftershock Comics.

[1:47:50] It's on store shelves now.

[1:47:52] Pick up the trade paperback of the first series, Maniac of New York, The Death Train, and then pick up the new issues of Maniac of New York, The Bronx is Burning as we record this.

[1:48:02] Well, issue three will be released I think the week before this comes out.

[1:48:06] So if you hear this episode, run to your comic store, put on a mask, go in masked, and buy issue three of Maniac of New York, The Bronx is Burning.

[1:48:15] It's a four-issue limited series coming out now from Aftershock Comics.

Stuart Wellington

[1:48:19] Yeah, and I just want to do a little quick promotion plug for the Flophouse podcast.

[1:48:25] It's just three dudes being silly buns.

[1:48:28] Oh, that's fun.

Dan McCoy

[1:48:34] I think it's time to do our final judgments on Dungeons & Dragons.

[1:48:39] Whether this is a good, bad movie, a bad, bad movie, or a movie you kind of liked.

[1:48:44] Personally, I will go and I will say that I, for like the first half an hour, I was like, oh, maybe this is going to be a good, bad movie.

[1:48:54] Like, I have affection for the type of thing this is trying to do.

[1:49:00] And I definitely have affection for low-budget special effects of the period.

[1:49:09] But it gets so bogged down and boring for me in the middle that I wanted to, you know, find it funny.

[1:49:18] But I would say it's bad, bad with the proviso that like go on YouTube and maybe look at some highlights of the movie and you'd have fun.

[1:49:27] Highlights for kids.

[1:49:28] But what do you say, Stu?

Stuart Wellington

[1:49:29] I'm going to say I think this is, for me, this is a good, bad movie.

[1:49:34] If you have an affection for kind of, you know, like kind of poor special effects and the, and like cheesy fantasy adventure movies in the pre-Lord of the Rings era, I would say that there's enough funny stuff and dumb stuff that it's worth checking out.

Elliott Kalan

[1:49:57] I'm going to agree with Stuart.

[1:49:58] I think it's a good, bad movie.

[1:49:59] I feel like the older I get and the farther we get from when these movies like this came out, the more nostalgic I am for this kind of junk.

[1:50:08] Just because it's different than the junk we get now.

[1:50:10] So, yeah, I'd say if you were like, if you're our age, go ahead and watch this as a good, bad movie.

[1:50:16] I don't know how it will work with people who are not of our generation.

[1:50:20] Adam, what do you think?

[1:50:21] You saw it the most times.

S4

[1:50:22] Yeah, I feel like it wore me down.

[1:50:24] I think if you had asked me after the first viewing, I would have said, bad, bad.

[1:50:28] I, my wife tells me that this movie has a 10% on Rotten Tomatoes.

[1:50:33] So that's a one in 10 chance that it is a good movie.

[1:50:36] Ooh, not a lot of tomatoes.

[1:50:38] I have my 10-sided die.

[1:50:42] I'm going to roll my 10-sided die and see if this is a movie I kind of liked or merely a good, bad movie.

[1:50:47] If I get a, if I get a zero, then it's a movie I kind of liked.

Stuart Wellington

[1:50:51] And that's a red 10-sider.

[1:50:53] That's probably from your changeling, uh, the dreaming days.

[1:50:57] I'm afraid I got a six.

[1:50:58] I got a six.

[1:50:59] So this is merely a good, bad movie.

Elliott Kalan

[1:51:02] Okay.

[1:51:03] Okay.

[1:51:04] That's fair.

Stuart Wellington

[1:51:05] We left it up to the fates and they decided.

[1:51:08] The, the gods, who are not really talked about in this Dungeons and Dragons movie, but are a big part of Dungeons and Dragons.

[1:51:14] Indeed.

Elliott Kalan

[1:51:16] Um, hey.

[1:51:17] Dan, you said indeed, like that was something you knew, but I don't really, I think you were just going to jump on the bandwagon.

Dan McCoy

[1:51:22] I know what I said, uh, indeed too, honestly.

[1:51:25] I was already looking at the next thing that we, uh, do on the podcast, which is letters.

[1:51:33] Letters from listeners.

[1:51:36] Uh, sorry.

[1:51:37] I'm trying to find the letters that I sent to myself, I swear.

[1:51:40] But now I'm having trouble discovering them in my, uh, in my email.

[1:51:46] So why don't you guys chat amongst yourselves?

[1:51:48] Alex, do you want to keep this part in or do you want to take it out?

[1:51:50] I leave it up to you.

[1:51:51] Yeah.

[1:51:52] Alex, maybe we'll just chat about stuff.

[1:51:54] Uh-huh.

Elliott Kalan

[1:51:55] Oh, oh, no, that's not it.

[1:51:57] I was laughing close.

[1:51:58] Cool.

[1:51:58] Wow.

[1:51:59] So Adam, you didn't watch this movie with your kids?

S4

[1:52:01] No.

[1:52:02] Uh, that's weird, right?

[1:52:04] I guess maybe my nine-year-old would have had some interest in it, but to be honest, he, he prefers his stories grounded.

[1:52:12] I.

[1:52:12] Oh, wow.

[1:52:13] Really?

[1:52:13] Yeah.

[1:52:13] If I, I mean, I can't get him into, uh, into superhero stuff either, which is like the great stupid tragedy of my life that I'm such a Marvel person and he doesn't really want to watch Marvel movies most of the time.

[1:52:25] So.

[1:52:26] Oh, that's too bad.

[1:52:27] He would rather watch, you know, an adaptation of Ramona and Beezus than, uh, adaptation of Dungeons and Dragons.

[1:52:33] I mean, it's still, that's still quality source material.

Elliott Kalan

[1:52:37] Oh, yeah.

[1:52:37] I mean, absolutely.

[1:52:38] But, but.

[1:52:39] I just imagine him, you're like, don't you want to see.

[1:52:41] More mumblecore than Marvel.

[1:52:43] Yeah.

[1:52:43] You're like, don't you want to watch Avengers?

[1:52:45] And he's like, can't we watch Topsy Turvy again?

Stuart Wellington

[1:52:51] But, uh.

[1:52:52] Yeah.

[1:52:53] Can we watch Squid and the Whale, Dad?

[1:52:55] Okay.

Dan McCoy

[1:52:58] Mystery solved.

[1:52:59] The, this, uh, this wound up in the trash for some reason.

[1:53:04] Oh, wow.

[1:53:05] I don't know why.

[1:53:06] Circular filing cabinet.

[1:53:08] Email that I sent to myself wound up there.

[1:53:11] But, uh.

[1:53:11] I mean, it speaks volumes about your self-esteem right now, Dan.

Elliott Kalan

[1:53:14] You know that you're great, right?

[1:53:16] You're not trash.

[1:53:17] When you send things to yourself, it shouldn't go there.

[1:53:19] Yeah.

[1:53:20] Yeah.

[1:53:20] Great.

Dan McCoy

[1:53:21] Um, this first letter is from Claire, last name withheld.

[1:53:26] Uh, it's titled, the Star Wars Pied and Tree Saga.

[1:53:30] Hey, peaches.

[1:53:31] I thought, I bet you thought you were done with this particular saga.

[1:53:33] Guess again.

[1:53:34] It's coming back for another installment.

[1:53:36] Yay.

[1:53:37] A few episodes back.

[1:53:38] Elway, Elliot.

[1:53:39] Elway.

[1:53:41] Elway.

[1:53:42] John Elway.

[1:53:43] Football legend.

Stuart Wellington

[1:53:45] I couldn't think of anyone more different than Elliot.

Elliott Kalan

[1:53:49] If you look at the spectrum of human men, it is probably John Elway in one end and me at the other.

Dan McCoy

[1:53:57] Yeah.

[1:53:57] A few episodes back, Elliot made a throwaway comment in which he implied that the back half of Star Wars A New Hope took place over a single day.

[1:54:06] Then in a later episode, you received an email correcting Elliot's, quote, mistake.

[1:54:11] But as soon as you started reading it, I immediately noticed a major problem.

[1:54:15] This correction was completely wrong.

[1:54:18] Elliot got it right the first time.

[1:54:20] In a scene toward the end of the film, Darth Vader says to Grand Moff Tarkin, quote,

[1:54:26] This will be a day long remembered.

[1:54:28] It has seen the end of Kenobi and will soon see the end of the rebellion, implying that the death of Obi-Wan Kenobi and the Battle of Yavin take place in the same day.

[1:54:38] I thought of emailing a correction to defend Elliot's honor, but then I decided against it.

[1:54:42] I didn't want to be the person who sent an email because someone on the internet was wrong about Star Wars.

[1:54:48] And besides, I figured you would get a veritable deluge of emails about this and I didn't want to toss another one on the pile.

[1:54:54] But then weeks passed and no mention of it.

[1:54:57] Then in a recent episode, Elliot made a self-deprecating joke, implying that he still believes that he was wrong about Star Wars.

[1:55:04] And this listener corrected him correctly.

[1:55:07] I just couldn't take it anymore.

[1:55:08] I had to write in.

[1:55:10] Driven to madness.

[1:55:11] Elliot.

[1:55:12] Saw the injustice and spoke out.

[1:55:14] I appreciate that.

[1:55:14] Elliot, fear not.

[1:55:16] You're wonderful and brilliant and you know an excessive amount about Star Wars.

[1:55:20] And to the dude who wrote in previously, if you're going to waste the floppers' time with Star Wars pedantry, at least get your facts straight.

[1:55:27] Claire, last name withheld.

[1:55:29] Wow.

[1:55:29] Thank you, Claire.

[1:55:30] Claire's out there defending your honor.

Elliott Kalan

[1:55:32] Claire, thank you for being the hero I need, even though I don't necessarily, if you're not necessarily the hero I deserve.

[1:55:37] I really appreciate it.

[1:55:38] Yeah.

[1:55:38] It feels good to be vindicated.

[1:55:40] You know, there are certain things that haunt you.

[1:55:42] And this is one of them.

Stuart Wellington

[1:55:43] Did you throw that email in the trash because it was making Elliot feel good?

[1:55:47] I think so.

Dan McCoy

[1:55:48] I must have subconsciously been like, well, drag this to where it belongs.

Elliott Kalan

[1:55:51] First Dan did his normal search through the emails for the phrases Dan sexy, Dan great, and Dan love.

[1:55:58] Didn't find those.

[1:55:59] Found that email and said, we can't let Elliot see this.

[1:56:02] No, no, no, no.

Dan McCoy

[1:56:02] Yeah, yeah.

[1:56:03] Spirited it away.

[1:56:05] Okay, well.

Elliott Kalan

[1:56:07] Well, if it was spirited away, I'd have to like figure out which pigs are my parents, you know, and you know, it would be, that's a whole other kettle of fish.

Stuart Wellington

[1:56:13] But in the end, everybody's friends, so it's okay.

Elliott Kalan

[1:56:16] Yeah.

[1:56:16] I do love in that movie when she picks the, she chooses it right, spoiler alert, and everyone goes, yay, you did it.

[1:56:22] Like, oh, yeah, they're pulling for her.

[1:56:24] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:56:26] There's one more letter.

[1:56:27] It goes like this.

[1:56:29] What am I right about this time, Dan?

[1:56:31] No, it goes, dear peaches, light syrup or heavy syrup?

[1:56:36] Let's go round robin starting now with the most captivating of the big three, Dan McCoy.

[1:56:41] I assume this is referring to which, what kind of peach packaging there is, whether we're peaches and light.

[1:56:48] Wow.

Stuart Wellington

[1:56:49] That's a, that's a logical leap I wasn't expecting.

Dan McCoy

[1:56:51] You know, I didn't get it until this time reading the email.

[1:56:54] I think that the proximity of peaches.

[1:56:56] And yet you chose to ask this email.

[1:56:57] You chose to read this email and ask the question, not really understanding what it was.

[1:57:00] Just like syrup preferences in general.

Elliott Kalan

[1:57:04] Dan, syrup is not necessarily light or heavy.

[1:57:07] It's on a specific grade system.

Dan McCoy

[1:57:09] The grade recognizing both flavor and color.

[1:57:12] Well, that's why I think that it must be about the peaches because you do hear peaches and light or heavy syrup.

[1:57:18] Whereas like, yeah, maple syrup would be like grade, amber, grade, whatever, you know.

[1:57:23] It's really fascinating to be part of your process like this.

Stuart Wellington

[1:57:26] This is great.

Dan McCoy

[1:57:27] Yeah.

[1:57:28] Well, I am a syrup detective.

Stuart Wellington

[1:57:31] Hey, Alex, make sure to leave all this in and add some more if you can.

Elliott Kalan

[1:57:34] Yeah, sure.

[1:57:35] If you can loop it for a while.

[1:57:36] I love the, Adam, you're experiencing the moment I think every guest experiences when they, this is the moment when their excitement in the show has already been downgraded to interest, is now downgraded to when does the show end?

Dan McCoy

[1:57:47] When do I get out of here?

[1:57:49] No.

[1:57:49] I have family I should be.

[1:57:52] What monkey's paw did I wish to be a Flophouse guest on?

[1:57:58] I'll skip the syrup talk.

[1:57:59] I'll go to the second question in here.

Elliott Kalan

[1:58:02] That's good because I had a nightmare.

[1:58:04] I had a nightmare last night about peaches.

[1:58:05] There were millions of peaches.

[1:58:07] Peaches for free.

[1:58:08] And it was millions of peaches.

Dan McCoy

[1:58:10] And I just, it was too many.

[1:58:11] Don't do this.

[1:58:12] Well, I mean, you don't live in the country, so it's not an issue you're going to deal with.

[1:58:17] Turning to Elliot, what do you think are the chances we'll see a Ray Dennis Steckler biopause?

[1:58:22] In Stuart's lifetime, I feel like it'd be super easy to get Ray Dennis to look like Nick Cage to play cash flag himself on account of all his castle bills.

[1:58:31] Faithful years, first name withheld, a boo-boo.

[1:58:34] So what do you think, Elliot?

Elliott Kalan

[1:58:35] Well, unfortunately, the problem is Nicholas Cage would have been a perfect Ray Dennis Steckler, but he's a little old for the part now unless it's an older Ray Dennis Steckler.

[1:58:42] But you want to see him when he was younger, when he was making, like, incredibly strange creatures and stuff like that.

[1:58:47] And he really had no idea what he was doing.

[1:58:50] But I'm curious why it was in Stu's lifetime that they were asking.

[1:58:55] It's probably shorter.

[1:58:56] I don't know.

[1:58:57] You take better care of yourself.

Stuart Wellington

[1:58:59] Yeah, I would assume that you might be the most long-lived.

[1:59:01] I mean, physically, I'm an Adonis.

[1:59:03] But mentally, you know, I'm a mess.

[1:59:06] I mean, the thing is also that, like, yeah.

[1:59:09] It rots from within, you know.

Elliott Kalan

[1:59:10] Oh.

[1:59:11] Yeah, that's life.

[1:59:12] Well, that's, yeah, that's life.

[1:59:13] That's bleak.

[1:59:15] Very, very bleak.

[1:59:16] But not as bleak as the prospects of a Ray Dennis Steckler movie because it's like the, yeah, I don't know.

[1:59:21] I don't know enough about his life story to know if it has the character interest that, say, Ed Wood did because that's the closest parallel.

[1:59:28] Ed Wood and Dolomite are basically the closest parallels you would get.

Dan McCoy

[1:59:31] For those who may not know Ray Dennis Steckler, of course, the director of such films is Rat Finkaboo-Boo, the incredibly strange creatures who stopped living and became mixed-up zombies and others.

Elliott Kalan

[1:59:42] He did Blood Sucking Freaks, right, also, which I think he did Blood Sucking Freaks, where I think it's on the poster of that where it says, warning, this movie features freaks who suck blood, which I think is the funniest message you can have on the poster.

[1:59:54] It's just telling you, look, the title is true in this.

[1:59:58] Maybe, maybe, I'm looking it up now.

[2:00:00] You know what, I don't think he did Blood Sucking Freaks.

[2:00:01] Yeah, I think I would have.

[2:00:03] Yeah.

[2:00:04] But yeah, he did do Rat Finkaboo-Boo, which is nearly unwatchable.

[2:00:08] Have you guys ever seen it?

[2:00:09] I mean, it is unwatchable.

[2:00:10] It is so boring.

[2:00:12] And there's so much of it that is just the camera following this one woman's butt as she walks down the street in kind of tight 60s pants.

[2:00:21] And you're like, it goes from titillating to incredibly boring so fast.

Dan McCoy

[2:00:25] And you're like, when does Rat Fink come out?

[2:00:28] And the story about this, I don't know whether it's true or not right, though, is that it was supposed to be called Rat Fink and Boo Boo, but they didn't correct it.

[2:00:38] Yes.

[2:00:39] The title came out wrong and it was too expensive.

[2:00:41] So they didn't fix it.

[2:00:43] Yeah, so it's just Rat Finkaboo-Boo, which means nothing.

[2:00:47] I mean, the other thing also means nothing, but it is easier to understand.

[2:00:51] You're like, oh, there must be a person called Rat Fink and a person called Boo Boo, which is correct.

Elliott Kalan

[2:00:56] It's part of the movie, not even the whole movie, which is a strange thing.

[2:00:59] Part of the movie is a parody of Batman and Robin.

[2:01:02] So once you see that they're superheroes and it's called Rat Fink and Boo Boo, you're like, I get it.

[2:01:06] It's like Batman and Robin.

[2:01:07] But Rat Finkaboo-Boo sounds like a dish you would get in a foreign restaurant.

[2:01:11] Like you don't know what it is.

[2:01:13] I thought it was like some kind of dance.

[2:01:15] Yeah.

[2:01:15] I'm having Rat Fink prepared in the style of Boo Boo.

Dan McCoy

[2:01:20] I don't know what this is.

[2:01:21] Or it's like Rat Fink is a thing that you are supposed to do to a Boo Boo, like one of the bears from – if there are multiple Boo Boo's perhaps.

[2:01:32] Look, go Rat Fink a Boo Boo.

[2:01:33] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[2:01:35] Now this is one – I'm looking up his credits now.

[2:01:37] This is one I have not seen, but he did make a movie called The Mad Love Life of a Hot Vampire, which is a funny name.

[2:01:43] It's a pornographic horror film apparently going to Wikipedia that is a funny name.

[2:01:48] He was a master of titles.

[2:01:51] I mean his movie, The Incredibly Strange Creatures Who Stopped Living and Became Mixed Up Zombies, is mostly made up of local cabaret footage.

[2:01:57] And it does have – I mean he does have one of the strengths of low-budget filmmaking of that time, which is that you get to see a lot of interesting shots of what L.A. looked like in the mid-60s because he couldn't afford to shoot it anywhere but the streets of the city he lived in.

[2:02:10] But anyway, I would be curious to see that movie, but I don't think it's likely that it's going to happen.

Dan McCoy

[2:02:17] Certainly not in my lifetime.

[2:02:18] Okay.

[2:02:19] Well, let's close up the mailbag and move on to the final portion of the show, which is where we recommend movies that could be maybe a better use of your time than Dungeons & Dragons.

[2:02:31] Or Rat Fink a Boo Boo.

[2:02:32] Yeah.

[2:02:33] I'm going to recommend.

[2:02:36] I recently rewatched P.T. Anderson's Inherent Vice, which is a movie that I saw when it came out.

[2:02:42] And I thought I could see where it was good, but I didn't connect with it at all.

[2:02:50] I mean, it is a very hard movie to follow intentionally.

[2:02:54] Not made any easier that, you know, Joaquin Phoenix, who is a very mumbly man in most roles, is mumbling it up even more so as the stoned protagonist of the movie.

[2:03:07] Just throw on the captions, dude.

[2:03:09] But this time, rewatching it, it unlocked for me in a way.

[2:03:15] Like, I realized that a lot of the sort of confusion of the movie was meant to mirror his sort of stoned haze that he lives life in.

[2:03:25] And that part of the joke of the film is that there's a big conspiracy that would be easily dismissed as, you know, marijuana paranoia.

[2:03:38] Except for the fact that it is real thing.

[2:03:41] It is real stuff that is happening.

[2:03:43] And it is sort of about how there are all of these sort of real terrible things being put in place because of money and power at all times that can easily be dismissed as paranoia, but are happening.

[2:04:03] In the midst of that, you know, like, all that can be done is this man does what he can to at least eke out the smallest, you know, personal victory while this crazy stuff is going on.

[2:04:19] And I find it a lot funnier than I had before.

[2:04:24] I understood enough of the plot the second time around to kind of be able to be cool with the stuff that I didn't understand going on.

[2:04:34] Anyway, like, it was just a movie that, you know, sometimes if a movie is complex, but you sense that there's something there, like, obviously, like any other work of art,

[2:04:48] returning to it, letting it open up, you know, seeing it at a different time in your life is, can be a great thing.

[2:04:57] And I really liked it a lot more this time around.

[2:05:01] So Inherent Vice is my recommendation.

Stuart Wellington

[2:05:05] Inherent Vice.

[2:05:07] Stuart.

[2:05:08] Okay, I'll recommend a movie that's available currently on HBO Max.

[2:05:13] I'm going to recommend Ridley Scott's little movie, The Last Duel.

[2:05:18] It is a historical sword and sorcery epic.

[2:05:23] No, it's not.

[2:05:26] It's a movie that fucking rocks.

[2:05:29] It's got swords, Dan.

[2:05:30] The dead part was true.

[2:05:32] Yep.

[2:05:32] Dead parts.

[2:05:32] We got, and we have the movie magic of Matt Damon and Adam Driver and Ben Affleck.

[2:05:39] Matt Damon plays Jean de Carouge, a prickly squire.

[2:05:44] And Adam Driver plays Jacques Legree, his buddy who thinks, who fancies himself a womanizer.

[2:05:52] And Ben Affleck is kind of like the duke that's above them.

[2:05:57] And Matt Damon's wife is played by Jodie Comer.

[2:06:01] And the movie is a collection of tellings of a specific event where Matt Damon's character's wife, played by Jodie Comer, claims that she has been sexually assaulted by Adam Driver's character.

[2:06:15] And we get kind of tellings of this story from the different characters.

[2:06:21] It's great.

[2:06:22] The performances are all super fun.

[2:06:25] And the duel at the end is fucking wild.

[2:06:29] And Ben Affleck delivers one of his best performances of all time.

[2:06:33] It's great.

[2:06:33] Movie rocks.

[2:06:35] Ridley Scott was right.

[2:06:36] We were wrong.

[2:06:36] We should have seen that shit in the theater.

[2:06:38] It's great.

[2:06:39] Check that shit out.

Dan McCoy

[2:06:40] I don't think it was a case of right or wrong.

[2:06:42] No, he's right, dude.

[2:06:43] You're wrong.

[2:06:44] I mean, there was a pandemic.

[2:06:45] You're either wrong or you're Ridley.

[2:06:48] It's reasons not to go out of the world.

Stuart Wellington

[2:06:50] It's fun.

[2:06:51] It was especially fun to watch after watching House of Gucci because House of Gucci, we kind of talked about one of its flaws being that like Ridley Scott might not have been the best director suited for this material.

[2:07:01] But he is like – Last Duel is great.

[2:07:04] It is a great movie and he is great with that type of shit.

Elliott Kalan

[2:07:07] I'm looking forward to watching it.

[2:07:08] I haven't seen it yet and I'm hoping too soon.

[2:07:10] Thumbs up.

[2:07:11] It's great.

[2:07:12] What movies have I been interested in watching?

[2:07:14] Well, here's one that I watched recently that was very depressing but a very good movie.

[2:07:18] I watched recently the movie Mr. Klein or as it's known in its original France, Monsieur Klein, which is a movie from 1976 starring Hélène Delon who is – he plays – it's an art dealer in 1942 in France.

[2:07:33] His name is Robert Klein and he has started as a specialty now of basically taking advantage of Jews who are fleeing the country and have to sell off their art collections cheap.

[2:07:43] And then he makes a big profit off of it due to a – what seems like it could be a misunderstanding of identity involving a piece of mail or it could be a plot against him.

[2:07:52] He doesn't know why.

[2:07:53] He starts getting confused with a different Robert Klein who is Jewish and who the French police are looking for because they're preparing to round up all the Jews to ship them to the camps.

[2:08:03] And Klein becomes so obsessed with finding this other Robert Klein and at first proving that he himself is not Jewish, that he'll be saved.

[2:08:11] And then eventually he becomes more obsessed with finding this man and he keeps – seems to keep always just missing discovering his true identity or why he seems to have trapped him into this.

[2:08:22] And he becomes so paranoid and obsessive that by the end of it he is racing headlong into his own destruction and completely ignoring any chance of escape or getting out of what is becoming a more and more dangerous situation as Paris becomes a more and more dangerous place to live.

[2:08:39] And it's a really chilling movie.

[2:08:42] It is super kind of depressing and bleak but I thought it was really good and really well made.

[2:08:49] And just the dread and the almost inevitable doom that he is chasing throughout the movie because he just has to know who this other person is and he can't let go of it becomes very – it just – it really drew me in.

[2:09:06] So that's Mr. Klein.

[2:09:08] I would recommend it.

[2:09:09] Just don't expect to have a good time when it's over.

[2:09:13] It's a super bleak movie.

Dan McCoy

[2:09:15] What about Robert Klein's stand-up set in the middle of it?

Elliott Kalan

[2:09:17] That's the weird thing is that this movie came out when Robert Klein I guess was performing but was not yet a huge star.

[2:09:23] Or maybe he just wasn't well-known in France.

[2:09:26] So for a while during the movie I was like, yeah, Robert Klein.

[2:09:29] Look him up.

[2:09:29] He's probably performing in L.A. right now.

[2:09:31] Like go see him.

[2:09:32] But if you can ignore that.

[2:09:35] The same way that the novel Day of the Locust, the main character is named Homer Simpson.

[2:09:40] And it's hard to read it now and not imagine Homer Simpson from the show drifting through L.A. as a man with no point to his life, eventually leading to tragedy.

Stuart Wellington

[2:09:52] Elliot, real quick.

[2:09:53] I kind of zoned out during your description.

[2:09:55] Is Mr. Klein a biopic about actor Chris Klein, star of Chun-Li, the Street Fighter movie?

[2:10:02] It is not at all.

[2:10:03] It came out before I believe he was born.

[2:10:05] Okay.

[2:10:06] So yeah.

Dan McCoy

[2:10:08] Adam, do you have a recommendation?

S4

[2:10:11] Yeah, I'm going to recommend the movie that I watched immediately after Dungeons & Dragons.

[2:10:18] Okay.

[2:10:19] I guess technically that was Dungeons & Dragons because I watched it a second time and then a third.

[2:10:23] But then after that, just last night, I watched a movie that I know the three of you have probably already talked about before, The Green Knight.

[2:10:34] Oh, yes.

[2:10:35] It seemed, you know, appropriate just because obviously they're both medieval fantasies.

[2:10:40] It's such an intense scene set, sort of a symbolic scene in which Dev Patel's Gawain, as king, is seated in a throne.

[2:10:56] He's holding his symbols of power.

[2:10:57] There's this very forceful and kind of sinister sounding voiceover overlaid on top of it.

[2:11:04] And we watch as Dev Patel's head bursts into flames.

[2:11:09] And at that moment, I think I would rather watch the first minute of this movie 120 times in a row than have to watch Dungeons & Dragons for a fourth time.

Elliott Kalan

[2:11:21] I spoke.

[2:11:22] I've got some bad.

[2:11:22] No one's going to make you do it.

[2:11:25] No, no.

[2:11:25] I've got some bad news for you.

[2:11:26] I just got word.

[2:11:27] You have to watch it.

[2:11:29] Oh.

[2:11:29] Sorry.

[2:11:29] It's out of my hands.

[2:11:30] I'm just the messenger on this one.

S4

[2:11:32] I spoke earlier about how I just, from an artist's perspective, I just felt like so many of the scenes and shots were just kind of poorly composed.

[2:11:40] They weren't composed the way that an illustrator would compose them.

[2:11:43] And almost every frame of The Green Knight is a painting.

[2:11:48] You know, it's exquisitely chosen colors and it's perfectly aligned.

[2:11:55] And the values are really thoughtfully set against each other.

[2:12:00] The values of light to dark, I mean.

[2:12:03] And just a lot of times during the movie, I just thought, oh, geez, that assemblage of children watching a puppet show looks like an odd nerd room painting.

[2:12:13] Or that approach to the Green Chapel looks like a Friedrich painting.

[2:12:19] You know, it's over and over again.

[2:12:21] I just felt like I was getting an art history lesson watching it.

[2:12:25] And it's also just.

Stuart Wellington

[2:12:26] That shot of jizz dripping down a belt.

S4

[2:12:28] Okay.

[2:12:28] Yeah.

[2:12:29] Not my favorite shot.

[2:12:30] But it was.

[2:12:34] It was just so beautiful.

[2:12:36] And, you know, jizz and all.

[2:12:38] And I just was really in awe.

[2:12:42] I think a lot of people thought it was slow.

[2:12:43] I liked the pace of it.

[2:12:46] I liked the mood of it.

[2:12:48] I liked the way that I just couldn't stop thinking about it for a long time afterwards.

[2:12:52] So The Green Knight.

[2:12:55] Rented at Casa Video in Tucson.

Stuart Wellington

[2:12:57] I feel like.

[2:12:58] And I feel like The Green Knight specifically, like, it leaves you.

[2:13:02] Like, it ends so strong that it kind of leaves you thinking about it.

[2:13:07] Like.

[2:13:08] Yeah.

[2:13:08] It's stuck in my head for a couple of days afterwards.

[2:13:10] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[2:13:11] I think it's probably my favorite movie of last year.

Stuart Wellington

[2:13:14] So I'm on board with that.

Dan McCoy

[2:13:19] Well, Adam, thank you so much for being with us as our guests.

[2:13:24] It was nice to have someone with some insider knowledge.

[2:13:28] And you did so much homework.

[2:13:30] Is there anything that you want to plug before we go?

S4

[2:13:33] You know, I think Elliot kind of plugged everything at the beginning.

[2:13:36] I write and illustrate kids' books.

[2:13:38] My most recent is Gladys the Magic Chicken, written by Adam Rubin, actually.

[2:13:43] I didn't write this one.

[2:13:44] I illustrated it.

[2:13:45] It's about a chicken who may or may not be magic who goes on an epic adventure that she largely does not notice.

Elliott Kalan

[2:13:53] That sounds great.

[2:13:54] I mean, the title kind of gives away that she's magic.

[2:13:56] Yeah.

S4

[2:13:56] It's up to you, the reader, Elliot, to decide.

Elliott Kalan

[2:14:01] But if you read the title, it's kind of right there.

[2:14:04] Gladys the Magic Chicken.

[2:14:04] Well, take it up with the writer.

S4

[2:14:05] Like I said, I did not write this one.

Elliott Kalan

[2:14:09] All right.

[2:14:10] And I want to say that all of Adam's books are – I'm talking about Adam Rex right now.

[2:14:17] Adam Rubin's great, too.

[2:14:18] But now I'm talking about Adam Rex.

[2:14:20] I've been a big fan of his work for such a long time.

[2:14:23] And you will not go wrong with pretty much any book with his name on it that you can pick up.

[2:14:28] There are ones that are favorites of mine, but there are none where if you asked me if you should get it, I would say no.

[2:14:32] Get anything you see with his name on it.

[2:14:35] Pick it up.

[2:14:35] You won't regret it.

[2:14:36] You'll love it.

[2:14:36] And then you'll get the other ones.

[2:14:37] Thank you, Elliot.

Dan McCoy

[2:14:38] That's why I'm putting his name on my book when it comes out.

[2:14:42] Yeah.

[2:14:43] A theoretical book.

[2:14:44] I don't have a book.

[2:14:46] So, thank you, listeners.

[2:14:49] If you have a moment, go to iTunes and leave us a review to help spread word about the show.

[2:14:53] You can follow The Flophouse Pod on Twitter.

[2:14:57] You can follow The Flophouse Podcast on Instagram.

[2:15:02] And if you enjoy YouTube, go to YouTube.

[2:15:04] I like that streamlined branding.

[2:15:05] It's just consistent across all platforms.

[2:15:07] It's too late now.

[2:15:09] YouTube.com, The Flophouse Podcast is where you can find some videos of our stuff.

[2:15:15] If you want to go to the FlophousePodcast.com, you can click on the merch tab if you want Flophouse merch like t-shirts and such, posters.

[2:15:25] We are a member of Maximum Fun Podcasting Network.

[2:15:29] That is located at MaximumFun.org.

[2:15:32] You can check out all of the great podcasts on the network.

[2:15:35] I'm almost at the end of the spiel, and that means I'm going to thank our producer, Alex Smith, who is at HowellDotty on Twitter.

[2:15:43] Yep.

[2:15:43] You can see what he's up to.

[2:15:45] Thank you for listening.

[2:15:47] But until next time, I have been Dan McCoy.

[2:15:50] I'm Stuart Wellington.

[2:15:51] I'm Ellie Kalin.

[2:15:52] And I'm Adam Rex.

[2:15:54] Bye.

[2:15:58] See, now we have an Outback.

Elliott Kalan

[2:16:01] We have an Outback.

[2:16:02] Now we have a steakhouse from the land down under.

[2:16:04] Tell that back.

[2:16:05] Oh, man.

[2:16:06] That's not about politics.

[2:16:06] Blooming onions for everybody.

[2:16:08] Finally, I've got a place for me to put all these onions that keep blooming.

[2:16:11] Guys, I try to get to the onions before they bloom, and I can't.

[2:16:14] It's just too, I'm always too late.

[2:16:16] I'll set an onion down on a plate.

[2:16:18] I'll turn away.

[2:16:19] I'll turn back.

[2:16:20] It's bloomed.

[2:16:21] I don't understand it.

[2:16:22] Yeah, I feel like somebody's gaslighting you at this point, Elliot.

Stuart Wellington

[2:16:26] Like, Danielle has a big stack of bloomed onions, and she's just waiting for you to put one down

[2:16:30] so she can swap it so she can get all your inheritance.

[2:16:33] It's going to be great.

Dan McCoy

[2:16:34] Bloomed onions sounds like something that the dad in My Fair Lady would say.

[2:16:42] CosmumFun.org.

John Hodgman

[2:16:43] Comedy and culture.

[2:16:45] Artist owned.

[2:16:46] Audience supported.

Ep. #362 - Dungeons & Dragons, with Adam Rex

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