Ep.#464 - The Crow (2024), with Scott Weinberg

Dan McCoy

[0:00] On this episode, we discuss the crow.

Stuart Wellington

[0:02] Is it my favorite bird?

[0:05] No.

Dan McCoy

[0:07] What is your favorite bird, Stuart?

[0:09] Yeah, I gotta know now.

Stuart Wellington

[0:10] Probably the, what's the one with the big bill?

[0:14] What's the pelican?

[0:15] Yeah, I like that guy.

[0:16] Oh, man, he's a silly buns.

[0:18] Have you seen the way they die for fish?

[0:19] It's bonkers.

[0:21] They should make a movie out of that.

[0:22] Yeah.

[0:23] Bring me back to life.

[0:25] Carrying my soul in the little bulge of his little bill.

[0:30] Hey, everyone.

Dan McCoy

[0:52] Welcome to The Flophouse.

[0:53] I'm Dan McCoy.

[0:54] I'm Stuart Wellington.

Elliott Kalan

[0:55] I'm Ellie Kalin.

[0:56] And today we've got a special guest, Stuart, who is our guest that is special today for us today.

Stuart Wellington

[0:59] We have film critic, well-known podcaster, Scott Weinberg, and friend of the pod, returning guest, Scott Weinberg.

[1:08] That's true.

[1:09] It's been a while since Artemis Fowl.

S4

[1:10] I'm thrilled to be back.

[1:12] Hi, Floph.

Dan McCoy

[1:13] A while since Artemis Fowl, yeah.

[1:15] That's what America says.

[1:16] Like, what's Artemis up to?

Elliott Kalan

[1:19] America's like, oh, it's been a while since Artemis Fowl, when it seemed like we had no problems.

[1:23] You know, everything was just fine.

[1:24] The worst thing we had to deal with was Judi Dench saying top of the morning in a tough guy voice.

Stuart Wellington

[1:29] Oh, and she has those, like, little ears, right?

Elliott Kalan

[1:31] Yeah, she's like a little elf or something.

S4

[1:34] My niece named her son Artemis, and she's never heard of the movie.

[1:39] What are the odds of that?

[1:41] How about, uh, probably kind of high, actually.

Stuart Wellington

[1:44] It's like the idea that more people have gone to the Waterworld stunt show than seen the movie Waterworld.

Dan McCoy

[1:49] Was it named after Hotel Artemis instead?

S4

[1:53] No, but apparently A-R-T-E-M-I-S is the female version, but then there's a male version that's spelled with a U at the end there, Artemis.

[2:02] And when she named him that, he's only two now.

[2:05] And when she named him that, I just went, what?

[2:08] But now we call him Artie, and it's great.

Dan McCoy

[2:11] Well, thank you for coming to our name etymology podcast, The Name House.

[2:17] Uh, we, so we're talking about The Crow, uh, what was this, 2024?

[2:21] Well, what do we do in The Clubhouse, Dan?

[2:23] Oh, that's a good point.

[2:24] Talk about The Crow.

[2:24] Thank you for prompting.

Elliott Kalan

[2:26] This is a Crow podcast.

[2:27] This is The Cow House.

[2:28] Every week we talk about The Crow.

Dan McCoy

[2:30] Uh, this is a podcast where we watch a movie that was rejected by critics or audiences or both.

[2:37] Uh-huh.

[2:37] A bad movie by, uh, the, the, the ruling of the world.

[2:42] Then we see what we think about it.

[2:44] We talk about it.

Elliott Kalan

[2:44] The International Criminal Court declared it bad movie, and we say, should it be overturned on appeal?

[2:50] That's what we're all about, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[2:52] And this is, of course, a remake of the beloved, uh, 90s The Crow, uh, starring, uh, Brandon Lee, who, uh, tragically died during the filming of that, uh, picture.

[3:00] A movie that I, uh, saw in the theaters.

[3:03] Uh-huh.

[3:04] Like, you know, any disaffected teen boy.

[3:07] I loved it at the time.

[3:08] I tried to revisit it recently.

[3:10] I'm like, well, maybe some things just stay in the past.

[3:13] Dan, what did you do with all those?

[3:14] Did you ever dress up as The Crow for Halloween?

[3:16] That's what I was saying.

Elliott Kalan

[3:17] What did you do with all those pictures?

[3:18] Because, Dan, then you really got into the face paint when you were a teen, right?

Dan McCoy

[3:21] No, that was not that kind.

[3:22] I was, I hung out with that kind of guy.

[3:24] But I never had the guts to go full that kind of guy myself.

[3:28] Full of the Crow.

Stuart Wellington

[3:30] Uh, yeah, do you guys, uh, do you guys have any, uh, other than, obviously, we know Dan's a huge crow head.

[3:35] But, um, do you guys have any, uh, relationship with, uh, do you have any relationship with the, the original movie, the Alex Proyas movie, or with the comic book?

Elliott Kalan

[3:46] I'm gonna, I'm gonna admit, I have actually never seen the original movie, and I've never read the original Mike, that's a Mike Barr comic.

[3:53] James O'Barr.

[3:54] James O'Barr.

[3:54] I get him mixed up with Mike W. Barr, who's a different comic book writer.

[3:56] The James O'Barr comic.

[3:57] And that the, uh, so I'm, I know of the general premise of The Crow and the general look of The Crow.

[4:04] But I was coming into this naked as a baby, you know, no, no preconceived notions.

Stuart Wellington

[4:09] You didn't, you didn't have like this, you didn't like crush that fucking, like that soundtrack was a banger.

[4:13] Yeah.

[4:14] It's like a, it was a staple of 90s soundtracks.

[4:17] And I think it features probably the only U2 song I like.

[4:20] Uh, it has that great Nine Inch Nails cover of the Joy Division song, Dead Souls.

[4:24] It's just, yeah.

[4:25] Sounds like a great soundtrack.

Dan McCoy

[4:26] Industrial and goth, uh, classic, I would say.

[4:29] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[4:30] What about the U2 Batman song, Stuart?

[4:33] Oh, okay.

[4:33] I like that one too.

[4:34] I'm sorry.

[4:34] Those are, yeah, they, apparently U2 only works for me if they're doing track songs.

[4:39] Doing comic book music.

Dan McCoy

[4:40] Yeah.

[4:40] What about the Spider-Man musical?

[4:43] They are a very dramatic band.

[4:45] So maybe that's like sort of their, what, where they exist best, you know, where they can like wear their heart on their sleeve.

[4:50] Yeah, yeah.

[4:51] It makes sense.

[4:51] Scott, what about you?

Stuart Wellington

[4:52] And they all have like fucking superhero names like Bono and The Edge.

[4:56] The Edge and probably other names.

Elliott Kalan

[4:58] I can't name a single other member of the band, but.

[5:00] Probably Spider-Man.

[5:02] They all have Mullins.

[5:03] Yeah.

[5:04] They all have Mullins names.

Dan McCoy

[5:04] Larry Mullins, I think.

[5:05] Larry Mullins.

Elliott Kalan

[5:06] The Edge.

[5:07] Moon Mullins.

[5:07] That's a comic name.

[5:08] Yeah.

[5:09] That's true.

[5:09] Moon Mullins.

S4

[5:11] Scott, what about you?

[5:12] What's your Crow history or Crow story?

[5:14] It's like Stuart said, there's two kinds of dated.

[5:16] There's dated like teen sex comedies from the 80s that make you cringe.

[5:20] And then there's dated where it's still a good movie, but it is all a moment.

[5:26] And I think the Crow is that second one.

[5:29] You watch it and it is pure 1993, 94, 95, hot topic, dark Tim Burton kind of disaffected, angsty youth.

[5:40] And it still works for me.

[5:42] I think it's a good revenge story.

Dan McCoy

[5:46] That's about it.

[5:47] I like it.

[5:47] I don't love it.

[5:48] And that was the time when we all, you know, we had our chips in on Alex Proyas.

[5:51] We're like, you know, you made this, you made Dark City.

[5:54] He's going to be a big director.

[5:55] You made Dark City after this, right?

[5:55] A big director.

[5:57] I think so.

[5:57] Yeah.

[5:58] Yeah.

[5:58] I believe so.

Stuart Wellington

[5:59] And then, yeah, kind of, kind of biffed it a little bit.

Elliott Kalan

[6:01] I think Dark City is not a movie you get to make without having The Crow as a success.

[6:06] Yeah.

S4

[6:06] Right.

[6:07] To borrow a term, it's kind of, this was his, that was his blank check.

[6:10] Yeah.

[6:11] Not familiar with it.

Stuart Wellington

[6:13] So, yeah, I remember obviously, you know, seeing the trailer for The Crow.

[6:17] I was like, oh, this is going to be the best movie I've ever seen.

[6:19] Went to the movie.

[6:20] I'm like, this is a pretty, almost the best movie I've ever seen.

[6:22] Went and read the comic book.

[6:23] And I was actually kind of surprised at how the comic is, you know, the comic was written

[6:29] and drawn by James O'Barr as a way to work through the loss of his fiancee because of a

[6:35] drunk driver car crash.

[6:38] And he, so like, the book is, it's much less of like an action-y, superhero-y story and a

[6:45] lot more of just like this sad guy, like, thinking about his dead partner.

[6:53] And then, and occasionally going and performing acts of violence to these criminals in, I think, Detroit.

[7:00] And it's, it's like stylish, but not like stylish, like the, it's not like all black leather and like,

[7:06] and strobing lights like the movie.

Dan McCoy

[7:09] Well, this remake is certainly, you know, it's faithful to the not being action-y and just moping around for a long time.

[7:17] Like, there is a big action sequence at the end, but mostly, I was watching this.

[7:22] I'm like, wow, like the first, the crow, like they're dead when we meet them.

[7:28] Like the first scene is, is their crime scene being investigated, their murder scene.

[7:34] And this movie takes like 40 minutes for any crow-iness to happen.

Elliott Kalan

[7:39] It is a, this is a, a slow burn or some would call it a crow burn of a movie.

[7:44] So why don't we talk about, yeah, it's a James Coburn of a movie.

Stuart Wellington

[7:47] I also do want to point out, this director is known for delivering kind of like glossy, big budget stinkers.

[7:54] Snow White and the Huntsman.

[7:55] Yeah.

[7:55] And also in the, in the vein of adapting comic books that I am a fan of, I noticed that back in 2011,

[8:03] he did a short film of Charles Burns' Black Hole.

[8:07] He did?

[8:08] Yes.

[8:09] I have not watched it.

[8:10] I, I am sad.

[8:12] Like, I don't want to be sad about it.

[8:14] But my spirits were raised when the news just broke about Jane Schoenbrunn.

[8:19] Yeah.

[8:19] Is that the pronunciation?

[8:20] Is slated to direct a, a, a live action Black Hole, which I can't think of.

[8:26] That's a good match.

[8:27] Yeah.

[8:27] That's a, that's a great fit.

[8:28] That's a great fit.

Elliott Kalan

[8:28] I'll look forward to that.

S4

[8:30] That's a great fit.

[8:30] Stuart, I got a question for you, if you don't mind.

[8:33] Having read the comic book, can you tell me if this remake, any of it?

[8:38] Because like there's stuff in this remake that's not in the original film.

[8:42] And I'm thinking either they created like the idea that the villain is immortal.

[8:48] Is that from the comic book?

[8:49] Because it's stupid as shit either way.

Stuart Wellington

[8:51] So the, the thing is, is that the, the Alex Proyas movie took the original comic and added

[8:59] a whole bunch of extra stuff to it.

[9:01] And this adds an extra, an even more extra layer of superhero-y nonsense.

[9:04] Because literally like the guys who he's getting revenge on in the comic book are like just

[9:11] a gang of like criminals.

[9:13] Right.

[9:13] And like one of them, he's just like.

S4

[9:14] It's a rotten street, rotten street gang up against the guy who is back from the dead

[9:19] supernaturally.

[9:20] So it's the supernatural versus the super evil.

[9:23] And like that works in the original Crow.

[9:26] This time, it really does feel like someone said, let's DC it up.

Dan McCoy

[9:32] I mean, I understand the impulse.

[9:34] I think it's wrong.

[9:35] But I understand the impulse of being like, well, the Crow has so much not dying powers

[9:40] that to just put him up against like street toughs feels like, you know, he's overmatching

[9:44] them so much, you know, so like let's have a villain who can take on the Crow.

[9:50] Right.

[9:50] And then they get Danny Houston to play him.

[9:53] Okay.

[9:54] Yeah.

[9:55] Yeah.

[9:55] It's hard to take Danny Houston seriously.

[9:57] I love Danny Houston.

S4

[9:58] But man, he could do as the naked gun proved.

[10:01] He could do this kind of villain part in his sleep.

[10:04] And in this movie, he kind of does.

Elliott Kalan

[10:05] He kind of does.

[10:06] I mean, well, that's the thing is he is a they're very lucky.

[10:08] I think they're very lucky to have Danny Houston because he can do it so easily.

[10:11] Yeah.

[10:11] But it means he's not.

[10:12] Fair enough.

Stuart Wellington

[10:12] Yes.

[10:13] He's not doing more than Danny Houston.

[10:14] It also like it really makes me want to see an erotic thriller starring Danny Houston.

[10:19] Because I think he can bring the fucking dude.

[10:21] He's a sexy old dude.

Elliott Kalan

[10:22] He could do it.

[10:23] Yeah.

[10:23] So let's go to let's talk about the plot of this movie from the beginning.

[10:26] So we mentioned this is directed by Rupert Sanders.

[10:29] This is his second appearance on the Flophouse in a movie.

[10:31] Right.

[10:31] Because he did Ghost in the Shell.

[10:33] Yeah.

S4

[10:33] He's only done three features and you got him twice.

[10:35] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[10:36] Yeah.

[10:36] We did.

[10:37] Lucky us.

[10:39] I remember seeing Snow White and the Huntsman in the theater and afterwards I was like,

[10:43] what was that?

[10:43] Was that like, what was that?

[10:44] It was like, it was one of the emptiest feeling movies I think that I had seen.

[10:48] So let's talk about the crow 2024 version.

[10:51] We start out with a classic opening.

[10:54] Must be classic crow.

[10:56] Kid walking home finds a wounded horse outside a trailer covered in crows and he removes some

[11:01] barbed wire from the horse, which I guess scars his hands forever.

S4

[11:05] Elliot, if I could interrupt real quick, this moment, this moment inspired me to just keep

[11:12] a list of adjectives that this movie is as I ran through it.

[11:17] And the first one I wrote, capital M, miserable.

[11:21] What a horrible opening.

[11:23] Poor fucking horse.

[11:25] Right off the bat.

Elliott Kalan

[11:25] Classic save the horse moment.

[11:27] But it doesn't.

[11:28] It dies, right?

[11:28] It doesn't save the horse.

[11:29] The horse dies.

[11:30] And also this is, and it's, this, I'm like, okay, I guess this is going to be like the

[11:34] traumatic memory that he's, this is a traumatic origin.

[11:36] It doesn't, he does, he stops thinking about it pretty quickly.

[11:39] So he's, but he's, his adult self is tossing and turning in bed.

Stuart Wellington

[11:43] Do you think there was a moment where they're like, hey, can we lose the horse part in the

[11:46] beginning?

[11:46] They're like, I don't know.

[11:47] At one point he has scars on his hands.

[11:49] Will the audience understand what's going on?

[11:51] We really need to explain that.

Elliott Kalan

[11:52] We need motivation for him being sad.

[11:55] Well, if he, he couldn't save a horse once, that'll do it.

[11:58] Uh, he is, he, and he, in voiceover, he's talking about the pain you have when, all the

[12:02] pain you feel when someone you love dies.

[12:04] Credits, the crow.

[12:05] Okay.

[12:06] We come back.

[12:07] Uh, we need these two.

Stuart Wellington

[12:07] What do you think of the credit sequence?

[12:08] It's pretty awesome.

[12:09] To be honest, I don't remember it.

Dan McCoy

[12:11] Okay.

[12:12] It was kind of like, uh, it reminded me of, uh, what the girl in the dragon chat.

[12:16] Yes.

[12:17] Credit sequence.

Stuart Wellington

[12:17] But without the, uh, very cool, expensive sound song choice.

[12:21] Did you guys happen to notice how many credits there were for producers?

S4

[12:25] No.

[12:25] Uh, I'm guessing a zillion.

[12:27] I know it's a common, you know, it's a common sticky joke for critics like, types like us,

[12:32] but there's over 40 producers on this movie.

[12:36] I'm not exaggerating.

Elliott Kalan

[12:37] But that's why it's so good.

[12:38] That's why it's 40 times as good as a regular movie.

Stuart Wellington

[12:41] That's the thing.

[12:41] The best meal you're going to have is one when 40 chefs make it.

Elliott Kalan

[12:44] Well, there's a common phrase, not enough cooks in the kitchen.

[12:48] It's when something's just not working, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[12:50] You've heard, you've heard of five napkin burgers.

Elliott Kalan

[12:52] What about five chef burger?

S4

[12:54] I, I, you know, back in the day when Twitter was entertaining, uh, I said something like,

[12:59] oh, this movie I just watched had torn, has 28 producers with that many producers.

[13:03] It must be good.

Stuart Wellington

[13:06] Nope.

[13:06] Yeah.

[13:07] Nope.

[13:07] You're just lucky.

[13:08] You'd be, yeah.

[13:09] You're like, odds are one of them's going to really nail it.

[13:11] Yeah.

S4

[13:12] With that, with that many people looking at the footage, how could the movie fail to be

[13:16] great?

Stuart Wellington

[13:17] I guess it's before we, I mean, we're about to be introduced to them.

[13:19] We're about to meet the catch.

Elliott Kalan

[13:20] We've only gotten about 45 seconds into the movie.

[13:22] Sorry.

Stuart Wellington

[13:23] We have our two leads.

[13:24] We have our two leads.

[13:25] One, you know, uh, the crow is, uh, Bill Skarsgård.

[13:28] We'll get, we'll get to him.

[13:29] We'll get to him.

[13:30] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[13:30] So, because first we meet Sadie and Shelley, these two, two young women.

[13:33] They're anxious because they have a video they could use to take down some kind of super

[13:37] terrible bad guy.

[13:38] We don't know what that video is just yet, but they're like, we've got to get rid of this

[13:40] video.

[13:40] Oh no.

Stuart Wellington

[13:41] Which after learning about what's going on, we're like, there's no way that would do anything.

Elliott Kalan

[13:46] No, it's not, this is, it's not going to do what they want.

[13:48] Uh, Sadie walks in a world where there are multiple photos of the president next to his

[13:54] best friend, a notorious sex criminal.

[13:57] Then people are like, what are you going to do?

[13:58] I don't know.

[13:59] Maybe.

[13:59] That happens in the crow.

[14:02] The, uh, Sadie walks.

Dan McCoy

[14:03] Yeah, but it's true that Danny Houston does have whisper in your ear and you'll kill yourself

[14:08] powers.

[14:08] I don't think he's going to be really worried about these.

[14:11] He's got probably crazy other powers too.

[14:12] With a phone video.

Elliott Kalan

[14:13] Well, no, but he is worried about this video.

[14:15] That's why, that's why he is tracking them down.

[14:17] So, uh, Sadie walks into her apartment and finds a character I could only call Lady Bad

[14:21] Guy.

[14:21] I didn't, I don't remember if they ever named her, but she's kind of like.

Stuart Wellington

[14:24] Oh, she's, fuck, she's the, she's in foundation and this guy directed some foundation.

[14:29] That makes sense.

[14:29] He directed the pilot foundation, right?

[14:31] That tracks.

Elliott Kalan

[14:31] And so this, this character is listed as, uh, as Marion in the credits, I guess.

[14:37] But I, but I, I don't remember hearing her name.

[14:40] Yeah, I don't think they ever say her name.

[14:41] And, uh, she's, or if they did, it's easy to lose.

[14:42] But she's, she is the bad guy.

[14:44] She's the one who's like, she's the second in command to the real bad guy.

[14:46] And she doesn't get her hands dirty, but she's always there when the, when the thugs are

[14:49] beating people up.

Dan McCoy

[14:50] None of these characters are, including our heroes are given personalities.

[14:54] But at least I, I will say that this actress has presence.

[14:57] There's something about her that's compelling.

Stuart Wellington

[14:58] Yeah.

[14:59] She does a good job.

[14:59] I would say in a, in a, uh, like a good movie of this, like each of these characters, cause

[15:05] they all kind of have like different looks, thumbs up, but they all should have like cool,

[15:10] like skills.

[15:11] Like somebody should have like a flying guillotine or somebody, somebody should have like a cool,

[15:15] like, I don't know, really good at kicking or something.

[15:18] One of them, one of them, one of them can slap, slap your head right off.

[15:21] Yeah, exactly.

[15:22] Yeah.

[15:22] I mean.

[15:23] One of them, one of them farts.

[15:24] So it's like a poison gas.

[15:25] If one of those characters could slap your head right off, Elliot, we wouldn't be talking

[15:29] about it still.

Elliott Kalan

[15:30] There must be, there must be a Hong Kong action movie where there's a guy who can slap so hard

[15:33] he slaps people's heads off.

[15:34] There has to be.

[15:35] It's called Head Slapper probably.

Stuart Wellington

[15:36] I feel like a granny character that does that is even better.

Elliott Kalan

[15:39] Yeah.

[15:40] It's called Shaolin Head Slapper.

[15:41] Isn't that what Slappy and the Stinkers is about?

Dan McCoy

[15:43] Oh, I'm sure I've seen Slappy and the Stinkers.

[15:48] You are no Slappy.

[15:49] It's one of the strangest movies about a, what is it, a seal that you could imagine.

[15:55] So is the seal Slappy or the Stinkers?

[15:58] Elliot, we don't have time for that.

[15:59] It's like a gang of kids.

[16:01] Oh, I see.

[16:01] I see.

[16:02] They're sort of a little rascals bunch.

Elliott Kalan

[16:04] Anyway.

[16:04] So anyway.

[16:06] Morose was another adjective.

[16:09] Sorry.

[16:09] Yes, morose.

[16:10] And so Lady Bad Guy drugs Sadie and kidnaps her and Shelly is worried.

[16:14] She calls their friend Dom.

[16:15] She goes, meet me here.

Stuart Wellington

[16:16] Shelly is played by what?

[16:19] Pop star FKA Twigs.

Elliott Kalan

[16:20] FKA Twigs, which stands for knowing about twigs.

S4

[16:26] That's what it means.

[16:26] Yeah.

[16:27] You go to her for twig facts.

[16:28] Exactly.

[16:29] I looked up it in case you're interested.

[16:31] Her real name is Talia Barnett.

Elliott Kalan

[16:34] That's a great name.

[16:35] It is.

[16:36] Beautiful.

[16:36] I think Talia Barnett, that's a good stage name.

[16:38] I don't know why you wouldn't use that.

[16:39] That's a Hollywood, that's a golden age Hollywood stage name.

[16:41] They'd be like, your name is Doris Gabowski?

[16:44] No, no, you're Talia Barnett now.

S4

[16:46] I was born FKA Twigs.

Dan McCoy

[16:49] My parents wanted me to know about twigs.

[16:51] So they named me for knowing about twigs.

[16:53] My parents were eating alphabet soup at the time.

[16:56] And twigs.

Elliott Kalan

[16:59] Their favorite snack.

[17:01] Well, my parents are.

[17:03] Anyway, I'm trying to think what kind of animal eats twigs.

[17:05] None of them, I guess.

[17:07] My parents are termites.

[17:08] So anyway, Shelly's worried.

[17:13] She wants to get out.

[17:14] She's being followed.

[17:14] In order to escape, she gets herself arrested on drug possession.

[17:18] And meanwhile, we're being suddenly start being introduced to a very heavily tattooed guy

[17:23] taking a shower at an institute.

[17:24] And that's Bill Skarsgard as Eric.

Stuart Wellington

[17:27] My dude has like the crispiest, like brand new, fresh set of tattoos for like a covered in stick and poke, like classic, like Williamsburg dude tattoo set.

[17:38] They all look so, they all look like he just got them in the last couple days.

[17:42] Like he just rolled into a sticker book.

Dan McCoy

[17:44] I saw this in your letterbox review, Stuart.

[17:48] And I'm like, this is an observation that a man with tattoos would make.

[17:51] But it was lost on me.

[17:52] I wasn't like, oh, these guys' tattoos are like too crispy.

Stuart Wellington

[17:56] Yeah, well, it just looks like they look super fresh and clean for a guy who looks like – a guy whose lifestyle would suggest he sleeps in garbage piles.

Elliott Kalan

[18:04] He's supposed to – and he's supposed to be a guy who has hit the bottom of the barrel.

[18:08] He's, you know, he's trying to kick drug addiction and he's – yeah, he's living that scum lifestyle.

[18:14] But yeah, his tattoos look like they were done with a straight – like a ruler, you know.

S4

[18:17] He looks like a henchman from Chappie.

Elliott Kalan

[18:20] Yes.

[18:20] Yeah, he does.

[18:21] He looks like a deantward.

[18:22] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[18:22] And for somebody who has hit the bottom of the barrel, my dude is chopped up.

[18:26] He is so jacked and like super skinny.

Elliott Kalan

[18:28] He's incredibly depressed.

[18:30] And whereas most people, when they're that depressed, they channel that into a lack of care about their own life.

[18:35] He is channeled into just like – just must be constant sit-ups, constant reps.

Dan McCoy

[18:40] I'll say that there are a lot of people addicted to drugs out there with let's call it low body fat percentages.

[18:47] That's true.

[18:47] But he is also shredded.

[18:48] I did see –

[18:49] He's addiction muscly.

Elliott Kalan

[18:51] Maybe it's because I live in L.A., but I have driven by a number of shirtless homeless men where I'm like, that guy is shredded.

[18:56] Like I could never get – and then I have to remember like, oh, yeah, he probably is not eating much.

[19:00] And that's why all of his muscles are sticking out.

Stuart Wellington

[19:02] He's also got one of those cool like half mullet hairdos that everybody on Apple TV Plus shows seems to have and a little dangly earring.

[19:10] This is a thing.

[19:11] Did I see a mullet there too?

[19:13] I think he had a mullet.

[19:14] Yeah, he's got that little like tiny little mullet haircut like Seth Rogen has.

Dan McCoy

[19:17] I will not accept the return of the mullet.

[19:19] I'm sorry if it makes me sound like an old man.

[19:20] Dan, you don't get to make the decision.

[19:22] You don't get to make the decision.

[19:22] He's got a very Australian haircut.

[19:24] Yeah, I know I don't.

[19:25] I know.

[19:25] I'm not – I'll rage at a cloud privately.

Elliott Kalan

[19:28] Dan, Dan, if you ever want to be Sigma, you got to accept it.

[19:31] It is not an attractive look.

[19:32] It's just the world you live in now.

[19:33] Okay, so we're at Serenity Park.

[19:35] It's a drug rehab institute of some kind.

[19:38] It is enormous.

[19:38] It's pretty nice.

[19:39] It's pretty nice.

[19:39] It's very nice and it's huge.

[19:41] They must have –

[19:41] And it's co-ed.

[19:42] What is that old?

[19:43] That is the weirdest thing to me.

Dan McCoy

[19:45] Like this is a – apparently like this is both run like a prison and they also like seem

[19:51] to have no problem with fraternization or like this budding romance between these –

Elliott Kalan

[19:56] It felt a little bit like I – what was it?

[19:59] Mickey – what was the recent Bong Joon-ho movie?

[20:02] Mickey 17.

[20:02] Mickey 17 where it was like – which like this is basically a police state on a spaceship.

[20:08] But we have rigid rules.

[20:09] But it seems like nobody really follows them and everybody is just fraternizing all the time.

[20:13] But he's – Eric is being bullied.

[20:15] He doesn't want to talk in group therapy.

[20:17] But Shelly ends up at the same facility.

[20:19] This is going to be a budding romance.

[20:21] But first, we're introduced to our villain at a fancy soiree.

[20:23] We see Mr. Rogue, very – just like very subtle naming played by one Daniel Houston.

[20:30] Yeah, Nicholas Rogue.

[20:32] And he has – I would – it would be amazing if he's like, yeah, my father, Nicholas Rogue.

[20:37] So that would be – so if Danny Houston, the son of John Houston, was playing a guy who

[20:41] was the son of a different director, I would love it.

[20:44] Yeah, my name is Richie Hitchcock.

[20:47] Call me Richcock.

[20:49] Actually, don't call me that.

[20:50] Don't call me that.

[20:51] Don't call me that at all.

[20:52] I didn't think that one through.

[20:55] You think I've had this name for a long time.

[20:56] It never really occurred to me.

[20:58] See, he's schmoozing.

[21:01] There's a very low-simmering subplot about him and a young pianist that he has an interest

[21:08] in, which it doesn't –

[21:09] She's from Vienna.

[21:10] But it's like always just in the background.

[21:12] But he gets taken by –

[21:14] Talk about goes nowhere.

[21:15] Yes, it goes nowhere.

S4

[21:15] That's the first stuff you would cut.

[21:17] There's nothing to do with anything.

[21:19] No.

Elliott Kalan

[21:20] I think it's supposed to be – he's one of these classic bad guys where he's like – he's

[21:24] incredibly decadent and also refined.

[21:27] You know, he's been – we find out later he's been alive for hundreds of years, so he

[21:29] loves to listen to classical piano with his eyes closed.

[21:33] But he's also savage.

[21:35] You know, he's savage and evil.

Dan McCoy

[21:36] Yeah, he likes to be the one guy sitting in a large auditorium listening to this girl

[21:42] Yeah, listening to a piano player.

Elliott Kalan

[21:44] And the piano player's not playing like –

[21:45] Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

[21:49] So Lady Bad Guy takes him –

S4

[21:51] That would have gotten me so hard if she had just started playing ragtime.

Elliott Kalan

[21:56] And so Lady Bad Guy takes him to see Sadie, Shelley's friend, and he's like, I want to

[22:01] find Shelley.

[22:02] And he's like, I made a deal hundreds of years ago.

[22:04] I have to send the souls of the innocents to hell, and that keeps me alive.

[22:07] And he uses his whisper brainwashing power, which I have to admit, when he uses the power,

[22:12] I think it looks really cool, where he's suddenly whispering really fast, and you don't really

[22:15] hear what he's saying, and it takes them over.

[22:18] And I think they pull off that effect really nicely, you know?

[22:21] I mean –

[22:22] But it always just leads to somebody killing themselves.

[22:24] That's it, pretty much.

Stuart Wellington

[22:24] Yeah, I think what he's doing is he's leaning in, and he's just saying, let the bodies hit

[22:29] the floor.

[22:29] And they're like, oh, no.

[22:31] Well, it reminds me of what –

S4

[22:32] What I thought he was saying is predicting how much the movie was going to make at the box office.

[22:37] But he's saying –

[22:39] And these are the 40 producers killing themselves.

Elliott Kalan

[22:40] He's whispering, there's your chance.

[22:42] Get out of the movie right now.

[22:43] Kill your character.

[22:43] Get out of here.

S4

[22:44] Right.

[22:44] We've got 40 producers, and we're going to make $18 million in total.

Dan McCoy

[22:48] I mean, I'll give this movie this much.

[22:50] You know, it doesn't have the – ironically, because there's so much more opera in this

[22:55] movie, it doesn't have the operatic look of the original.

[23:00] It doesn't have, like, the audacious, like, over-the-top, like, visuals.

[23:04] But it is a stylish-looking movie in its own sort of, like, chilly way.

[23:09] Like, I think that one of the better things I can say about it is, like, the movie generally

[23:13] looks good.

Elliott Kalan

[23:14] I think the movie – so this may be a spoiler for my final judgments.

[23:18] I didn't – this is not my kind of movie.

[23:20] But I feel like this movie delivers a lot of what it's trying to do, whether what it's

[23:24] trying to do is a worthwhile thing to do.

[23:26] But I'm like, yeah, it looks like – this is my image in my head of what a modern-day

[23:30] crow movie would look like, where it's a lot of a guy in a long trench coat just kind

[23:34] of gloomily walking down alleys and stuff like that.

[23:37] And, like, I think it does look stylish, you know?

[23:39] It's a –

[23:40] Dreary.

[23:40] It looks very dreary.

[23:41] It's a dreary sort of stylish.

[23:43] It's a dreary sort of stylish.

[23:44] It's dreary sort of stylish in the way that –

[23:45] Ligubrious.

[23:46] I haven't watched, like, 12 Monkeys in a long time, but I remember seeing it in theaters

[23:49] and being like, this movie looks – like, the look of this movie is so specifically chosen

[23:55] to be uncomfortable and not pleasant, you know, a lot of the time.

[23:57] You know, every place they go to, I'm like, this place is disgusting.

[24:01] You know?

[24:02] This is kind of like – every place they go to, it's like, this place is depressing.

[24:05] It's dreary.

Stuart Wellington

[24:05] It's like water is dripping from somewhere everywhere they go.

[24:08] Yes, exactly.

Elliott Kalan

[24:10] So he talks Sadie into killing herself.

[24:13] Now we know what the bad guy's power is.

[24:15] At rehab, Shelly and Eric meet.

[24:17] They have a lot of awkward talking and flirting.

[24:18] She likes his drawing and writing.

[24:20] He's a very sensitive soul, you know?

[24:23] We never learn anything about his past except, I guess, that he once didn't save a horse and

[24:27] that sent him on a spiral to rock bottom.

[24:30] And so –

S4

[24:30] Oh, and his mom – he has kind of a mom fixation?

Elliott Kalan

[24:33] Oh, that's right.

[24:34] And he has a mom fixation.

[24:35] He's a – but it's a – but they don't get into it too much.

[24:40] Right?

Stuart Wellington

[24:40] So they make a point of really – you know, like, as opposed to the previous film, they

[24:46] spend some time – we get some time with these characters to kind of get a sense of their

[24:51] connection.

[24:51] Dan, do you feel like they had a lot of chemistry?

Dan McCoy

[24:55] I feel like I – in my own Letterboxd review, I called these a couple of the dullest dim bulbs

[25:01] you'll meet.

Elliott Kalan

[25:02] They are – the movie is so reliant – this is one of the major failures in the movie.

[25:06] This movie is so reliant on their love, seemingly the kind of cosmic love for the ages that will

[25:12] drive someone to damn themselves to get revenge for losing that person or to save them.

[25:16] And they are so – they seem to have so little feeling for each other.

[25:21] And all of the cavorting in apartments, rolling around in bedsheets and curtains and, like,

[25:26] going to raves, like, does not convince you at any moment that they have any feeling for

[25:30] each other.

Dan McCoy

[25:30] But, like, look, I'm going to sound like an old man again.

[25:34] I understand –

[25:35] I understand that.

Elliott Kalan

[25:37] I'm going to sound like an old man again.

[25:40] Where's my dentures?

Dan McCoy

[25:41] No, I understand that, like, addiction is a disease.

[25:45] It's something that people, like, struggle with.

[25:47] Like, I – and I also don't have anything per se against, like, you know, reasonable levels

[25:56] of recreational drug use on, like, non-harmful drugs.

[26:00] But, like, it bothered me that they had this big, like, love montage to them basically, like,

[26:05] relapsing, like, finding her old stash and doing it and then having their – this movie

[26:11] I found – this is where I really sound like an old person.

[26:13] I found it irresponsible in a couple of ways and one of it was that and another is how

[26:18] I feel like it really romanticizes, like, depression and being, like, quote, unquote,

[26:22] beautifully broken as one of the characters say.

Elliott Kalan

[26:25] And I think – well, that's the thing.

[26:26] I think that's why I'm talking about, like, it does the thing that it's trying to do but

[26:30] whether what it's doing is a good thing is the issue.

[26:33] Because, like, I think, again, I'm like – I feel like that's what you think you're

[26:37] going to get from a – and, again, I haven't read the original comics and I wonder

[26:40] if they're more nuanced.

[26:41] But, like, I feel like one of the – this is a movie for a depressed teenager who wants

[26:46] to feel like it makes them special.

S4

[26:48] Doesn't Quiggy even mention angsty teenagers at one point?

[26:52] I think so, yeah.

[26:53] Possibly.

[26:54] Like, they – he wants to be, like, how angsty teenagers will fall in love with him?

[26:59] Something like that.

[27:00] Something like that, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[27:01] I mean, I feel like that's part of – I feel like they're – I feel like both our leads

[27:04] are miscast.

[27:05] I feel like Bill Skarsgård can really deliver the goods when he gets to play a crazy clown

[27:09] man.

[27:10] But, like, he doesn't – he doesn't have a lot of emotion outside of that.

[27:15] And I feel like we didn't need our lead – based on what happens in this movie, we don't need

[27:21] the lead to be, like, super muscular.

[27:24] No, he doesn't need to be jacked.

[27:25] Because, like, he doesn't do anything particularly – like, just the fact that he can't die is

[27:29] why he succeeds in this movie.

[27:31] I mean, you need a lot of arm strength to use the samurai sword the way he does.

Elliott Kalan

[27:34] Again.

[27:35] Paul Giamatti.

[27:37] Here's your version of the crow.

[27:38] Paul Giamatti is a middle-aged kind of older man who finds love later in life than he expected

[27:47] to.

[27:47] And that love is with another middle-aged person.

[27:50] She is – she's killed in a random attack or something.

[27:53] And he becomes the crow.

[27:54] And he is, like, finding that there's a rage in him that he didn't realize was in there

[27:59] before.

[28:00] And now he's letting it out.

[28:01] I would love to see that version of the crow.

[28:02] That's not a cool, sexy crow that a teen will want to watch, which is –

Stuart Wellington

[28:05] And Giamatti would be up for having a lot of cool prosthetic, like, gore effects on him.

Elliott Kalan

[28:11] You know he would do all those fake tattoos.

[28:13] You'd see a scene where he gets those.

[28:15] But anyway, then it would be called the Left Crowvers.

Stuart Wellington

[28:20] Hold Crowvers, but yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[28:22] Hold Crowvers.

[28:23] How about Albert Brooks?

S4

[28:23] It's not like it's Holdovers.

[28:24] I see Albert Brooks doing, like, the nest egg scene as the crow.

[28:27] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[28:27] Yeah.

[28:28] That would be – and so, Albert Brooks, you have him doing his character from Drive,

[28:32] basically, but, like, a little bit funnier.

Dan McCoy

[28:34] So he's like, well, I mean, you can't die.

[28:37] It seems like you got something pretty good out of it.

Elliott Kalan

[28:38] So maybe you don't have to kill me.

[28:40] Maybe that's the – you know.

[28:41] But I would love to see this version of the crow.

[28:44] Sorry, the Hold Crowvers.

[28:45] That's the one.

[28:45] Thank you.

[28:46] I can't remember the name of the name.

[28:46] I don't want to hold those crowvers.

[28:48] Dan, I need you to hold these crowvers for me.

[28:50] The officer, I swear I was holding these crowvers for a friend.

[28:54] So the bad guys show up at the facility.

[28:56] Eric helps Shelly escape.

[28:58] It is incredibly easy to escape this place.

[29:00] So easy.

[29:02] And they go to a fancy apartment she knows.

[29:03] They spend a lot of time.

[29:05] They have sex.

[29:05] They do drugs.

[29:06] They play Tell Me About Yourself games.

[29:07] They try on fancy clothes.

[29:09] And she makes him promise to love her no matter what happens or whatever.

[29:13] And they're all beautifully broken and whatever.

[29:15] Anyway.

S4

[29:16] What friend is this that has this apartment that she can free reign through?

[29:20] Some wealthy guys.

Stuart Wellington

[29:22] Some weird wealthy guys.

[29:24] It makes no sense.

[29:26] It's probably Justin Theroux.

Elliott Kalan

[29:28] They spend some time.

[29:29] They're bumming around with kind of like alternate hippie types.

[29:31] They're reading poetry to each other.

[29:32] They're jumping into lakes.

[29:33] Anyway, they collaborate on an album together.

Stuart Wellington

[29:36] It's just the funniest part to me.

[29:38] They have a lot of cool street wear that they get to try on and walk around in.

Dan McCoy

[29:42] At one point, she's like – or he's like,

[29:46] we could live this way forever or something like,

[29:47] well, eventually you'll have to get a job to pay for some of this.

[29:50] No, Dan.

S4

[29:51] Yeah, the friend's going to come home eventually and want his horribly ugly fur coat back.

Stuart Wellington

[29:56] Yeah.

[29:57] So –

[29:57] I mean, they're wearing a lot of clothes that look like they are like bum chic,

[30:01] but you know that they're like, oh, man, that shirt he's wearing is like $700.

[30:06] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[30:06] This is a $700 ripped white T-shirt.

[30:08] Yeah.

[30:09] So they're making an album together and she starts playing piano and he gives her trauma flashbacks.

[30:15] And she says when she was young, she was kind of pushed to be a professional piano player

[30:18] and she was playing places she shouldn't have and saw people get hurt and she heard people.

Stuart Wellington

[30:22] She starts playing the opening of that Linkin Park song.

Elliott Kalan

[30:24] Yeah, and they talk about – he's like, we can go anywhere together.

[30:28] And she's like, if I jumped off this bridge, would you do it?

[30:30] And he's like, of course I would.

[30:31] Anyway, at a rave, Shelley's friend Dom shows up and he's like,

[30:34] Sadie's dead.

[30:35] You got to get out of here.

[30:36] And she takes Eric to a mannequin warehouse that also has an apartment in the back.

Stuart Wellington

[30:40] I mean, that tracks, dude.

[30:42] That's like – that's movie 101.

[30:44] That's a cool apartment.

[30:45] Yeah, it's a cool apartment to live in.

Elliott Kalan

[30:46] The bad guy henchmen are there.

[30:47] Maynacs live there.

[30:48] The bad guy henchmen are there and they suffocate them both.

[30:51] And the suffocation I found very unpleasant.

[30:53] Yeah.

[30:53] This is a very unpleasant scene.

[30:55] I thought it was both unpleasant, but also like –

Stuart Wellington

[30:57] I thought it was like effective.

[30:58] Like I think if you're going to make –

[31:00] if you're going to make this sequence like horrible and traumatizing,

[31:03] I think this is not –

[31:05] like just having them get shot would have –

[31:08] depending on how it was done would be probably kind of boring.

[31:11] But this I felt was like, okay, this is horrifying.

Elliott Kalan

[31:13] Yes.

[31:14] And so now we're like about a what?

[31:15] A little bit less than halfway through the movie,

[31:18] a third of the movie, and we finally get some crow stuff.

[31:20] So Shelley sinks into like an ocean of –

[31:23] a metaphysical ocean.

[31:24] Eric, however, he surfaces in a kind of old industrial river site.

[31:29] Yeah.

[31:29] And there's a –

S4

[31:30] I saw Vincent Chiavelli.

[31:32] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[31:33] It's basically an abandoned train station.

Dan McCoy

[31:35] It's an abandoned train yard.

[31:37] And, you know, like there's like overgrown with like weeds,

[31:41] and there's crows flying around,

[31:42] and there's like a lot of –

[31:43] it's very cloudy.

[31:45] And, you know, this is one of those liminal spaces the kids talk about,

[31:49] you know, literally liminal.

[31:50] They sure do.

[31:51] Moby is another advocate.

Elliott Kalan

[31:54] Yeah.

[31:54] Kids are always talking about liminal spaces these days.

[31:57] It's just six, seven liminal spaces.

[31:59] That's the kids these days.

[32:00] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[32:00] Again, it's too gloomy for me to get any joy out of,

[32:03] but I thought this was kind of a cool like limbo notion that –

[32:07] Yeah.

[32:07] It's a neat –

[32:08] I mean, it's a place you wouldn't want to hang around in,

Elliott Kalan

[32:10] but there's an old man hanging around there.

S4

[32:11] If you were showing me a book of concept art,

[32:15] I'd be like, yeah, this artist is good.

[32:17] This is –

[32:18] Yeah.

[32:19] But to what end?

[32:20] To what point?

[32:21] You know?

Stuart Wellington

[32:21] It looks like a really good level of the video game I'm playing right now,

[32:25] Hollow Knight Silksong.

[32:27] Oh, okay.

S4

[32:27] Oh, right.

[32:29] I'm playing Power Watch Simulator 2.

[32:32] That sounds awesome.

Dan McCoy

[32:33] These both sound like made-up names to me.

[32:35] They're just stringing together like four words.

Elliott Kalan

[32:39] Well, sorry, man.

[32:39] Afterwords, you can do all of these things.

[32:42] Very good.

[32:43] Stuart, is that the game where the gamers were mad that the bee lady was not sexy enough?

[32:48] Probably.

[32:49] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[32:50] Is there a bee lady?

Elliott Kalan

[32:52] I think so.

[32:52] I mean, there's –

[32:53] Like, you play like a little bug.

[32:54] Yeah, I think it's the bug lady this was.

[32:56] So there's an old man there, and he goes,

[32:57] hey, sometimes something so bad happens that someone's soul can't rest,

[33:01] and a crow shows up and shows them how to set things right,

[33:04] and Eric's like, I don't believe that,

[33:05] and he wakes up back at the place where he died.

[33:07] What's this all about?

[33:08] There's this bad cop that shows up to get Shelly's phone.

[33:10] He shoots Eric, but Eric gets right back up and fights him.

[33:13] Eric gets stabbed.

[33:14] That doesn't stop him.

[33:15] It's almost like this guy has become the crow.

Stuart Wellington

[33:18] Do you think that's a –

[33:20] Central, we got a crow?

[33:23] We got a 514.

[33:25] You ever see that movie, The Crow?

Elliott Kalan

[33:28] We got one.

[33:29] It's like that, but less operatic.

[33:32] Eric kills the bad cop, and then his wounds heal really quickly, but it's painful,

[33:35] and he walks around in the rain, followed by a crow.

[33:37] He goes back to the bridge that he used to hang out with at Shelly.

[33:40] He thinks he sees her, but he sees her jump off the bridge.

[33:42] He follows, and he ends up back in the afterlife.

[33:44] The old man is like, she went to hell, but if you get rid of her killer,

[33:48] then you can kill all the baddies.

[33:52] You can get Shelly back.

[33:53] If your love remains pure, if your love becomes impure or you doubt your love, then it's not going to work,

[33:59] and you can feel pain, but you can't die, which is a very –

S4

[34:02] You can swap places with her, right?

[34:03] Is that –

[34:04] At this point, I don't know if he has to swap yet.

Elliott Kalan

[34:06] But it's like –

[34:08] Because I think he has to swap later because his love –

[34:10] You know, he doubts his love for a moment.

Stuart Wellington

[34:11] Yeah, or he like wants extra juice or something.

Elliott Kalan

[34:14] Yeah, he returns to the living world, and he finds this tattoo artist friend of his

[34:18] and gets a gun from him, and he tracks down Shelly's mom

[34:21] and finds all these pictures that were hidden in a wall, I guess, or a closet,

[34:25] along with her employee ID for Shelly at Rogue,

[34:28] a theater and art space owned by Mr. Rogue.

[34:32] Interesting.

[34:33] Look at this detective work.

[34:34] He's really putting the pieces together.

Stuart Wellington

[34:36] And Mr. Rogue's like, well, Shug.

[34:40] Don't touch me.

[34:41] Don't touch me.

S4

[34:42] I don't absorb your powers and memories.

[34:44] Who knew that being a concert pianist was so hazardous?

[34:47] Yeah, it's a hard life.

[34:49] It's a hard life.

[34:50] Isn't that a movie, the John Cusack?

Dan McCoy

[34:52] He'd be like, come here, touch me.

[34:54] I want your crow powers.

[34:56] Yeah.

[34:56] Oh, Shug, touch me with them crow powers.

Elliott Kalan

[35:00] So is Rogue the superhero?

[35:01] Is she the daughter of Nicholas Rogue?

[35:03] Is that what it is?

[35:04] Yes.

[35:05] Now I know.

[35:05] She's Mystique's daughter.

[35:06] Anyway, so Eric goes there.

[35:09] He finds one of the killers, tries to question him, but he just ends up shooting him.

[35:12] The band of the killers?

[35:13] He finds the whole band of the killers.

[35:14] He finds one of the henchmen.

[35:16] And then he catches a carload of the henchmen and the lady bad guy are escaping.

[35:21] He fights them all in a tunnel.

[35:22] He's in the car and there's lots of gunfight shots and stuff.

[35:25] And he gets knocked out of the car and run over by a truck.

[35:28] But of course, he heals painfully afterwards.

[35:29] Thoughts on this action sequence?

[35:30] You guys love it?

[35:31] I think it's pretty good.

Dan McCoy

[35:31] I love this sequence.

[35:33] He crashes into the windshield and because he's the crow, he just uses that as an opportunity

[35:39] to get into the car through the broken window.

[35:43] And then he gets pushed out under a truck and gets all mangled.

Elliott Kalan

[35:48] They do a good job of having enough times that bad guys are confused that he's not dying

[35:55] yet, but not doing that too much.

[35:56] Not having it happen so long that you're like, come on guys, just deal with it.

[36:00] This is the situation.

Stuart Wellington

[36:01] I wish they raised the blood level a little bit so that when he gets smushed and stuff,

[36:05] he gets everybody.

[36:07] I just wish it was gross.

Elliott Kalan

[36:09] I think they're saving that for that big final operas fight where it gets very gory.

Stuart Wellington

[36:13] I guess there's that moment where his guts start to come out of a hole in his stomach.

[36:19] That was pretty cool.

Elliott Kalan

[36:20] Yeah.

[36:20] You want to see more him dealing with that kind of damage.

[36:23] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[36:24] He's like the terror tactic of fighting a guy that if you smush him, he's still fighting

[36:28] you.

[36:28] You want it to be like the end.

[36:29] That's sort of a flat stick body horror version.

[36:31] You want it to be more like the end of.

Elliott Kalan

[36:32] I want it to be super crazy.

[36:34] The end of The Running Man, the book.

[36:35] I don't know if the upcoming movie is going to this.

[36:37] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[36:38] Everybody's favorite reference for guts.

[36:40] His guts are hanging out and he's crawling to the cockpit of the plane and his intestines

[36:44] get snagged on one of the seats of the plane and they're being pulled out of his body as

[36:48] he's crawling towards the cockpit.

Stuart Wellington

[36:48] I remember reading that after having seen the movie and being like, what the fuck?

[36:54] I don't remember this part.

[36:55] They must have cut it.

[36:56] They must have cut this part.

[36:57] They probably filmed it, but cut it.

[36:59] Yeah, probably.

[37:00] Probably.

[37:00] Yeah.

[37:01] They probably cut it and just put dynamo in there instead.

Dan McCoy

[37:05] I will say, like, whenever this movie switches into action mode, it's pretty good, but that

[37:10] is like.

[37:11] Very rare.

[37:12] Like 8% of the film.

[37:13] Yeah.

[37:13] There's two.

[37:14] It's mostly mope mode.

[37:15] He's mostly moping around.

S4

[37:17] That one is decent.

[37:18] And then when it gets to the opera house, I don't want to jump ahead too far, but in

[37:23] another film, that would be a great set piece.

[37:25] It's just there's no personality to it.

[37:28] There's no.

Elliott Kalan

[37:28] And it's also just one.

[37:29] It's just one thing after another.

[37:30] We'll get to that one.

[37:31] It's like there's no.

[37:32] There's very little build to that.

[37:33] It's just like, here's a kill.

[37:34] Here's a kill.

[37:35] Here's a kill.

[37:36] So Shelly's mom tells Rogue that Eric wants to kill him to bring Shelly back.

[37:40] And the mom did some kind of deal with Rogue.

[37:42] And he uses his voice power to make her kill herself, too.

[37:45] And Rogue is like, get me, Eric.

[37:46] I want this Eric.

[37:48] I keep picturing Rogue from X-Men when you say that.

[37:51] I know.

[37:51] And I it's it's a dumb name for them to give him.

[37:54] Like it's it's because he's a bad.

[37:55] They might as well call him Batty.

S4

[37:57] I feel like he was originally they called him Rogue because it's a villainous name.

[38:02] And then Rupert Sanders came in and wrote on a chalkboard.

[38:05] R.

[38:05] O.

[38:06] E.

[38:06] G.

[38:07] And all the film students went.

[38:09] Oh.

[38:10] Oh.

[38:11] Oh.

Stuart Wellington

[38:15] Skeksis right now.

[38:17] They're all doing blowjobs at the same time.

[38:21] That's how they recorded the Skeksis vocals.

[38:23] Wow.

[38:24] Wait, how was it?

[38:25] They recorded the Skeksis vocals?

[38:26] I missed it.

[38:26] All the vocal performers were receiving blowjobs.

[38:29] That's what it was.

[38:30] That's what it was.

[38:31] Yeah.

[38:31] Check.

[38:32] Contribute.

[38:32] Point to me.

[38:32] Yeah.

[38:33] That's what Jim Henson was like.

S4

[38:35] Skeksis people specifically.

[38:36] Highly inappropriate for a family film.

Elliott Kalan

[38:38] No, no.

[38:39] Because that's Jim Henson was like, there's only one way to get the sounds we want.

[38:43] Frank Oz, you need to go into that room and get a blowjob right now.

[38:47] And then his were all like, ah, ah, ah.

[38:50] And they're like, it's not working.

[38:51] It's not working.

[38:52] Dave Goles, get in that room and get a blowjob right now.

[38:54] Ah, ah.

[38:56] Better, better.

[39:00] Frank, Frank, do it again.

[39:01] Try it again.

[39:01] I can't do it anymore, Jim.

[39:02] No, try it again.

[39:03] But do it Miss Piggy this time.

[39:04] Ah, ah, ah.

[39:06] No, it's not working.

[39:06] It's not working, Frank.

Dan McCoy

[39:07] I feel like I'm back at the Muppet live script reading I was at last night featuring our friends Griffin and Hodgman.

Stuart Wellington

[39:13] That feels like the most tailored to Dan McCoy live event anyone could invent is a live script reading featuring popular podcasters.

[39:21] Yeah.

[39:22] Doing the Muppets also.

Dan McCoy

[39:23] Janet Vardy was there too.

[39:25] Mark Gagliardi.

[39:27] A couple of Max Fun people.

[39:28] Anyway.

[39:28] Oh, wow.

Elliott Kalan

[39:29] Yeah.

[39:30] Dan, you're really traveling in a rarefied air here.

[39:33] This is amazing.

Dan McCoy

[39:33] Well, I bought a ticket to see it.

Elliott Kalan

[39:35] Oh, okay.

[39:36] Never mind then.

Stuart Wellington

[39:37] You didn't get dragged up on stage like that Bruce Springsteen video?

[39:41] Yeah.

[39:42] You mean the Dancing in the Dark, that video?

[39:46] Courtney Cox?

Elliott Kalan

[39:47] Yeah, Courtney Cox in it?

[39:48] Yeah.

S4

[39:49] Lethargic was another adjective.

Elliott Kalan

[39:51] Should I stop with this, man?

[39:52] I think it's not.

[39:53] She's a sparkling president.

[39:54] No, no.

[39:54] She's very energetic.

Stuart Wellington

[39:55] No.

[39:55] She's still great.

[39:56] Especially those ads with Lisa Kudrow where they're talking about some mobile game that you can play.

[40:01] It's crazy.

Dan McCoy

[40:02] I don't know those.

Stuart Wellington

[40:03] You haven't seen these ads?

[40:04] It's nuts.

Dan McCoy

[40:05] No, I have been saddened by the cavalcade of celebrities I've seen hawking mobile games.

[40:11] Dan, you understand.

[40:12] These people have no money.

[40:13] They need the work.

[40:14] Well, no.

[40:15] I mean, like, I feel like it is an indication of how bad the industry is.

[40:18] It's just like, I guess this is what we got to do.

Elliott Kalan

[40:19] I think it's more an indication of how much money the mobile games have.

[40:22] Exactly.

[40:22] It's a lot of money.

S4

[40:23] They got to spend that money on something, and it's advertising.

Elliott Kalan

[40:26] Yeah.

[40:26] So Eric stops by their old apartment, gets a leather coat, mopes around a lot, remembers things very melodramatically.

[40:32] Yeah.

[40:32] Yeah, that's what he does.

Stuart Wellington

[40:34] Yeah, he gets a leather jacket.

[40:36] He hits the jukebox.

Elliott Kalan

[40:37] Yeah, he hits the jukebox.

[40:38] He's like, come see me in my office.

[40:40] It's just in the toilet stall.

[40:42] He finds her phone, and he watches a video of Rogue talking Shelly into stabbing a woman.

[40:47] And this, he walks through the rain to gothy music.

[40:50] He is really distraught at this.

[40:51] He's disappointed in Shelly.

[40:53] He thought she was pure.

[40:54] He doesn't know if he can go on because she was once brainwashed by an evil wizard into killing someone.

[40:59] Is he doubting his love?

[41:01] He is doubting his love.

[41:02] He just saw her stab someone.

Dan McCoy

[41:04] He doesn't know what happened.

Elliott Kalan

[41:06] Come on.

[41:06] Holy shit.

Dan McCoy

[41:08] I mean, I wouldn't see a video of you stabbing someone and be like, well, he probably got demon whispered into doing that.

Elliott Kalan

[41:15] Eric doesn't know about the demon whispering.

Stuart Wellington

[41:18] That will hold up in court.

[41:19] It will.

[41:20] My thought process would have been, first one, that's got to be AI.

[41:24] Second one, that's got to be a demon wizard.

[41:26] Third one, yeah, it's probably.

Elliott Kalan

[41:28] Third one, yeah, he did that one.

[41:29] Yeah, yeah.

[41:29] The one where he's eating chicken while he's stabbing.

[41:32] Yeah, that's the one that really stabbed him.

[41:33] Yeah.

[41:34] So the rogues goons show up and they fight Eric and they kill his friend and they kill Eric because his love has become impure.

[41:42] He's doubted his love.

[41:43] And the old man's like, you blew it.

[41:45] He doesn't do it that way.

[41:46] That's the way Sylvester Stallone says it in Copland.

[41:48] Oh, no, it's Robert De Niro on Copland says that.

[41:50] De Niro, yeah.

[41:50] Yeah, yeah.

[41:51] The old man says he blew it, but Eric offers his soul in exchange for hers.

[41:54] It'll mean he'll be damned forever.

[41:56] He'll never see her again.

[41:57] But he'll do it.

[41:58] He just loves her so goddamn much.

[42:00] He just, he'll go to hell for her.

[42:01] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[42:02] This is the point of the movie where I'm like, how long did you know this lady?

[42:05] Right.

S4

[42:05] I'm getting that arrested development moment where I'm like, her?

[42:09] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[42:11] Yeah.

[42:12] We had a love for the ages, Ron Howard.

[42:14] They didn't.

[42:15] You know?

[42:16] It's a tornado of crows surrounds him and one slams into him and the old man cuts his hand

[42:21] and then they have like a blood brother handshake.

[42:22] How do you know they're crows, Elliot?

[42:23] It could be blackbirds.

[42:25] What?

[42:25] They could be blackbirds.

[42:27] I mean, they look, I mean, it's just circumstantial evidence.

[42:30] It's called the crow.

[42:31] Yeah, they're a blood brother.

[42:32] That's different for me.

Dan McCoy

[42:33] That's the answer I wanted.

Elliott Kalan

[42:34] Yeah.

[42:34] I mean, they could be ravens, you know?

[42:36] Yeah.

[42:36] Different movie.

[42:37] A magpie, perhaps.

Stuart Wellington

[42:39] Yeah.

[42:39] And this is where-

[42:40] We'll have to go into the bird box.

[42:41] Doesn't like weird fluids squirt out of his eyes and turn him into the crow makeup?

Elliott Kalan

[42:45] Yes.

[42:45] There's like black blood that comes out of his eyes and he smears that out of his face.

[42:48] Black blood of the earth.

[42:50] You mean oil?

[42:51] I mean black blood of the earth.

[42:54] And then he goes and drinks a milkshake.

[42:57] Yeah, yeah.

[42:58] So then Eric's eyes start bleeding and he transforms into the crow we all know and love.

[43:01] Now he's got more superpowers.

[43:03] Comes back to life.

[43:04] He heals his wounds.

[43:04] He's not your daddy's crow.

Stuart Wellington

[43:05] He's got all those tattoos.

[43:07] And a cool Australian haircut and a dangling earring.

Elliott Kalan

[43:10] Am I wrong?

[43:11] I mean, my daddy's crow would be probably Sheryl Crow, to be honest.

[43:14] Oh, yeah.

[43:15] She did some good stuff.

S4

[43:16] Yeah.

[43:16] Did he-

[43:17] I know in the first movie he had the ability to come back from the dead, but he didn't

[43:21] actually have like Wolverine healing power.

Dan McCoy

[43:25] I don't remember.

[43:26] Yeah, I don't know.

Stuart Wellington

[43:28] I haven't seen it, but I'm guessing he's probably right.

[43:30] He was like an unstoppable flip machine.

Dan McCoy

[43:32] Yeah, he had more martial arts powers.

[43:33] Yeah.

[43:34] Than this guy.

[43:35] Yeah, this guy does not have martial arts powers.

Stuart Wellington

[43:37] I'm a little disappointed for a guy who feels so strongly about losing somebody that he has

[43:42] known for a brief period of time.

[43:44] He doesn't really care that his friend got his brains blown out because of him.

[43:48] He does not really care at all.

[43:49] No, it does not bother him.

Elliott Kalan

[43:50] He has a single mission.

[43:52] Maybe that's a sign of him becoming- he's becoming less human and more an instrument of vengeance.

[43:57] As they say-

[43:58] You're doing work.

[43:59] The screenplay isn't-

[44:00] No, I know.

[44:00] It's true.

[44:01] When you go for revenge, dig two graves.

[44:02] That's what I say.

[44:03] Because you want revenge on two people.

[44:04] Yeah.

[44:05] You don't want to pile them both in the same grave.

Stuart Wellington

[44:07] So the first one's going to be terrible.

[44:09] It's like your first thing.

[44:10] You need to get a second.

[44:11] You have to be able to square the corners, right?

[44:12] You need the second grave with what you've learned from the first grave.

Elliott Kalan

[44:15] Exactly.

[44:15] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[44:15] Yeah.

[44:15] You don't want to bury someone in that.

[44:16] It's embarrassing.

[44:17] Dig two graves.

[44:18] Why?

[44:18] Practice.

Dan McCoy

[44:21] Grave twice, cut once, you know?

Elliott Kalan

[44:23] When you go for vengeance, dig two graves because you're going to need arm strength and digging

[44:28] a grave will give you those arm muscles that you need.

[44:30] Right.

S4

[44:30] The first one is just for practice to see dimensions.

Elliott Kalan

[44:34] Just to know, oh, this is what it feels like to do it.

[44:37] Okay.

[44:37] I'm learning a lot.

[44:38] Now I can use that in the second grave.

[44:39] That's the real user.

[44:40] And you know what?

[44:41] If you dig that second grave and it doesn't work, go ahead and dig a third grave.

[44:44] It's fine.

[44:44] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[44:45] I mean, the more you dig, the more likelihood you're going to find some really cool rare coins

[44:49] or other treasures.

Elliott Kalan

[44:50] What you don't want to do is you don't want to dig a grave as big as the grave.

[44:53] As the one that Brad Pitt digs in California, which is roughly the size of a meteor crater.

[44:58] You don't need a grave that big.

[44:59] That's too big a hole to dig.

[45:00] You don't need that.

S4

[45:00] Maybe he was trying to bury the gluttony guy from Seven.

Elliott Kalan

[45:04] Oh, that's true.

[45:05] I mean, it looks like he's planning to murder an elephant when he's digging that grave.

Stuart Wellington

[45:08] I'm impressed that you remember any details from California.

[45:11] I was actually going to say that too.

[45:13] Well, you know.

[45:14] A similar time period as.

[45:16] Similar time period.

Elliott Kalan

[45:17] I think maybe that's why it came up in my head.

[45:19] Similar kind of.

[45:19] Oh, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[45:20] And you've been going through all your David Duchovny films.

Elliott Kalan

[45:23] That's right.

[45:23] Yeah.

[45:24] I'm almost up to House of D.

[45:26] Is that the one?

[45:27] Yeah.

[45:28] What was the one where.

[45:29] That's a funny title.

Stuart Wellington

[45:33] And there's the one recently that's all in like an airport.

S4

[45:37] Oh, I don't know that one.

[45:39] Does anybody current David Duchovny.

[45:41] Now, there's a good trivia category.

[45:43] Name this current David Duchovny film.

Elliott Kalan

[45:47] I can't do it.

[45:48] Nope.

[45:49] No.

[45:50] I know the movie you mean.

[45:51] I saw it on one of the VOD cameras.

[45:52] James D. Locked in his group chat right now.

Stuart Wellington

[45:54] You can't talk about David Duchovny.

[45:55] I'm sorry.

[45:56] Yeah.

[45:56] It's too busy.

[45:57] He's actually writing to the Red Shoe Diaries right now.

[45:59] That's the thing.

[46:00] Long time fan.

[46:02] First time diarist.

[46:03] Yep.

Dan McCoy

[46:05] Sorry.

[46:05] Speaking of last night.

[46:08] Somehow Griffin and Hodgman are now arguing the merits of the Muppet Takes Man script.

[46:14] I think now is the time for you to weigh in on it.

[46:16] No, no, I know.

[46:17] I'll put it down.

[46:18] If only Dan had a platform on which he could make his feelings clear.

S4

[46:22] What is it?

[46:22] Is it that like they are separated and then the reunion, the time between the separation and the reunion is almost nominal?

[46:30] Is that the problem with the script?

Dan McCoy

[46:33] I don't know what the problem with the script is.

[46:35] I think it lies in the third act, I feel like.

[46:39] Muppets Take Manhattan.

[46:40] It's certainly not.

Elliott Kalan

[46:41] It's not up to the level of the previous two movies.

Dan McCoy

[46:43] The ad stuff with the other frogs is hilarious.

[46:47] Hi, I'm Bill.

[46:48] This is Gil and Jill.

[46:49] That's hilarious.

[46:50] That's some of the best.

Elliott Kalan

[46:51] That portion of the movie made a huge impression on me as a kid.

[46:55] And I write about it in my essay in the book, Never Can Say Goodbye, Writers Talking About New York or whatever it's called, which came out many years ago.

S4

[47:01] I want the part two where Jason takes Manhattan from the Muppets.

[47:05] I feel like Elliot Kaylin could write it.

Elliott Kalan

[47:10] I would love to.

[47:11] That'd be fantastic.

[47:12] Or they both showed up the same day and they keep bumping into each other.

[47:15] Jason versus Muppets.

[47:17] Or Kermit gets hit by a car, thinks he's Jason, starts killing the other Muppets.

[47:21] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[47:21] Whoever wins, we hope it's the Muppets.

[47:23] That's the tagline.

Elliott Kalan

[47:26] That's the tagline.

Stuart Wellington

[47:27] Animal could take Jason.

[47:29] Probably.

Dan McCoy

[47:30] Of course.

[47:31] Definitely.

[47:33] Animal's the most powerful Muppet in the Muppet Extended Universe.

[47:37] And Violet.

[47:37] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[47:38] He's the Tom Bombadil of the Muppets.

[47:41] The squirrel girl.

[47:42] He's undefeatable.

[47:43] Or the guy who throws New Zealand.

[47:45] That guy.

[47:46] Mm-hmm.

[47:47] New Zealand.

[47:48] He impales him with a fish or something.

[47:49] Yeah.

[47:51] So the bat from –

[47:54] Eric comes back to life, kills the bad guys.

[47:56] From bad guy phone, he learns the other bad guys will be at the opera, of course.

[47:59] Takes some time to finish one of his tattoos.

[48:02] And gets his blood makeup together, picks up a samurai sword that happens to be there,

[48:07] and there's more moody walking through the streets to the opera.

[48:09] And this is the big opera –

Stuart Wellington

[48:11] Is this the moody walking to like a Gary Newman song or something?

[48:17] Like, I mean, this – the movie has a couple of like bangers,

[48:21] but I wish they were all like late 90s new metal songs.

[48:25] You want them to be the period you associate with it.

[48:27] Yeah, I want it to all be like – but not like the original The Crow.

[48:30] I want it to be like – yeah, I want it to be like Evanescence and shit like that.

[48:34] Yeah, yeah.

[48:34] But that's not what they do.

[48:35] But it would be – it's better than if they did it to Randy Newman songs,

Elliott Kalan

[48:38] which would have been inappropriate.

[48:39] Mm-hmm.

[48:40] A little unusual.

[48:41] You've got a friend in Crow.

Dan McCoy

[48:43] Speaking of the Muppets, Paul Williams, if they had a Paul Williams.

[48:46] Oh, wow.

Elliott Kalan

[48:47] I mean, I think Paul Williams could do it.

[48:48] I think Paul Williams could write the kind of song.

[48:50] It's pretty amazing.

[48:51] Moving Right – actually, I would love to see the Crow where he's walking down the street

[48:53] and Moving Right Along is playing.

[48:54] That's great.

[48:57] So he goes to the – this is the big, violent,

[49:00] action set piece where he's just killing guards left and right as the opera is playing.

[49:05] Yeah.

[49:05] And it's supposed to be –

[49:07] These guys probably aren't villains, right?

Stuart Wellington

[49:08] They're probably just hired goons.

Elliott Kalan

[49:09] I mean, they are all hired goons.

[49:11] It's like – they're all just private contractors.

[49:14] I mean, who knows what bad things they've done in the line of their work.

[49:16] He kills them in different ways with a samurai sword.

[49:19] He eventually gets to the bad guy lady.

Stuart Wellington

[49:21] It's like a Tanto, right?

[49:22] It's not like a full katana.

[49:23] It's kind of short.

Dan McCoy

[49:24] Yeah, it's a shorter sword.

Elliott Kalan

[49:26] It's kind of a medieval type sword, isn't it?

[49:30] It's definitely a Japanese sword though, right?

[49:32] It's not like a broad sword or something like that.

[49:34] No.

Dan McCoy

[49:34] It kind of splits the guy's –

Stuart Wellington

[49:35] Don't say broad, Elliot.

[49:36] Face.

[49:37] Sorry.

[49:38] It's not a dame sword.

[49:39] Yeah.

[49:40] I do like when he splits that guy's face all crap.

[49:42] Yeah, it's like upgrade style.

Elliott Kalan

[49:43] That's a nice kind of Takashi Miike type moment.

[49:46] Yeah, yeah.

[49:47] So the – he eventually gets to the bad guy lady and she's like,

[49:51] oh, you remind me of Rogue.

[49:53] You both hate yourself inside or something like that.

[49:55] And he kills her.

[49:56] He kills her henchman who is the oldest of the henchmen.

[49:58] It's very funny that it's like you're building up to him facing –

[50:02] it's almost like the one issue I really have with Mandy

[50:04] where after fighting his way through all the bad guys,

[50:07] he then gets to the big bad guy who's just an old man in the shower

[50:10] who's like, I'll suck your dick if you don't kill me.

[50:13] And I'm like, oh, this is –

[50:14] I feel like this is not a heightening moment, you know.

[50:18] But I know they're doing that on purpose.

[50:20] The Crow, he's –

[50:21] even though he has had a massive bloody fight

[50:24] in the public areas of an opera house,

[50:27] no one seems to have noticed he could get away scot-free

[50:29] until he walks on stage with the heads of The Last Sweetly Killed

[50:32] and throws them into the audience,

[50:34] which I, as an opera lover, found to be not necessary.

[50:38] You're just there to see the opera.

[50:40] You do not need someone to throw a severed head at you.

[50:42] Being at the opera is not an endorsement of evil.

[50:44] I'm going to the opera.

Stuart Wellington

[50:45] I don't want to see somebody be super dramatic.

[50:49] Imagine the headlines in tomorrow's paper.

[50:50] Stuart, hold on a second.

Elliott Kalan

[50:51] Hold on a second.

[50:52] If he came out and he was all covered in blood

[50:54] and he goes, the opera is over, that's one thing.

[50:56] That's literally – that's basically the way Pagliacci ends.

[50:58] But I don't want a severed head thrown at me in any situation,

[51:02] but especially not where I paid a lot of money for these tickets.

[51:04] It must be opening night because they're all in black time.

[51:07] Money buys comfort, and that's all you care about.

[51:09] I mean, money does buy comfort.

[51:11] Also, I'm here to celebrate the beauty of music,

[51:13] the beauty of performance.

[51:15] I don't need – there's no crime involved in that.

[51:17] You don't need to throw heads at me.

Dan McCoy

[51:18] I don't know who sponsored this opera,

[51:19] what sort of demon powers they may or may not have.

Elliott Kalan

[51:22] I mean, I've seen shows at the Disney concert hall.

[51:25] I'm sure they've done some terrible stuff.

[51:27] Is that what it was playing?

[51:29] It's an opera?

[51:29] I actually didn't know what opera it was that was playing,

[51:31] but it could be.

Dan McCoy

[51:32] Dan, do you know what opera it was?

[51:33] It's probably some made-up cro-opera.

[51:35] Cro-opera?

S4

[51:37] I only know La Boheme because it's Frank Oz gag from the Blues Brothers.

[51:43] That's how I know that.

Elliott Kalan

[51:44] Maybe it was Salombo, the opera from Citizen Kane.

[51:46] No, he goes, La Boheme.

Stuart Wellington

[51:49] La Boheme.

[51:50] Tosca?

[51:51] Tosca is – I think Tosca is often a New York Times crossword question.

Elliott Kalan

[51:55] Yeah, Tosca's a great opera.

[51:56] I mean, again, guys, this is not a bid I'm putting on.

[51:59] I do love the opera.

[52:00] The Metropolitan Opera in New York is a special place for me.

Stuart Wellington

[52:02] Yeah, we know you're 1% Kalen today.

[52:04] I am.

S4

[52:05] Exactly, I'm 1% Kalen.

[52:06] Elliot, how many times have you been at the opera house

[52:08] and seen an undead vengeful spirit behead six and two?

[52:12] Good question, Scott.

[52:13] The answer is zero,

Elliott Kalan

[52:14] and I don't want people to get the wrong idea about opera houses.

[52:16] They are not dangerous places.

[52:17] You will not be beheaded.

[52:19] Good to know.

[52:20] And I will say, Stuart, the opera, 100 years ago,

[52:23] opera was the music of the common people,

[52:25] really more like 130 years ago.

[52:27] Opera was the music that a working man would go to see at the end of the day

[52:30] and he would remember those songs and come through them.

Stuart Wellington

[52:32] That's what William Shatner was singing about in that song.

[52:34] Exactly.

[52:35] His song, Opera Man.

[52:36] Yeah.

[52:36] Because I'm an opera man.

Dan McCoy

[52:38] That one.

[52:38] Written by William Shatner.

[52:40] Yes.

Stuart Wellington

[52:40] Shit my dad says William Shatner.

[52:43] That's what he's best known for.

[52:46] Not a pulp song.

[52:47] Wait a minute.

[52:47] William Shatner song.

S4

[52:48] You mean Tech Wars William Shatner?

[52:50] Tech Wars William Shatner.

[52:51] That's right.

[52:52] William Shatner.

[52:52] You guessed it.

Elliott Kalan

[52:54] I want to name another more obscure William Shatner thing

[52:57] and I'm having trouble thinking of another one.

[52:58] The Devil's Reigns William Shatner?

[53:00] That Esperanto movie.

Stuart Wellington

[53:01] Yeah, Incubus.

Elliott Kalan

[53:02] That's what it is.

[53:03] Incubus is William Shatner.

[53:04] Kingdom of Visiting Hours.

Stuart Wellington

[53:06] Incubus with Brandon What's-His-Name.

Elliott Kalan

[53:08] He was in the band Incubus with Brandon What's-His-Name.

[53:10] Those were the two main members of the band.

[53:12] It was Bono, The Edge.

[53:13] William Shatner, Brandon What's-His-Name.

[53:15] Incubus.

[53:15] And the crow.

[53:16] And the crow.

[53:18] So, anyway, I'm just saying, again, I can't let it go.

[53:21] If you want to go see the opera, go see it.

[53:22] A guy will not throw a headset at you, I promise.

[53:25] You can't make that promise.

[53:26] Yeah, you can't.

[53:27] I was just about to say, how would you make that promise?

[53:29] In my experience, in my experience.

[53:31] Legally, or at least it's not saying that.

[53:33] In my experience, I think my grandmother would have given up

[53:35] her season tickets to the Met if she expected to get heads thrown at her.

[53:39] She had very good seats.

[53:40] The head would have hit her right in the lap.

[53:42] She would have been horrified.

[53:43] Yeah.

[53:44] So, the crowd runs off afraid, as they should, and he sees Shelly in the audience.

[53:48] Just a vision he's having.

[53:49] Eric goes to Rogue's fancy country estate.

[53:51] This bit was when I was wondering, I was like, where in the world is this taking place?

[53:55] It's just kind of a generic evil city where there's a country estate.

S4

[53:59] With a mannequin factory and a swanky apartment.

Elliott Kalan

[54:02] Yeah.

[54:03] They have a hero villain taunt talk.

[54:05] Rogue uses his feel terrible powers on Eric, but his love for Shelly breaks through and brings him back.

[54:11] And he pulls Rogue into the afterlife into that train yard and beats him up.

[54:15] And it's not really that impressive to see him beat up Danny Houston.

[54:20] To see Bill Skarsgård beat up Danny Houston.

[54:22] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[54:22] It's like the end of Eraser where Arnold Schwarzenegger beats up an old James Caan.

Dan McCoy

[54:28] Or it's like the end of Naked Guns.

[54:31] Where they make a joke out of how.

[54:33] His tummy.

[54:33] That's why Danny Houston was so perfect for that movie.

Elliott Kalan

[54:36] That's great.

[54:37] Years ago when we saw the Green Lantern movie where it was like, okay, so now he's up against a nerd in a wheelchair.

[54:44] This is the bad guy he has to defeat.

[54:46] So they.

[54:47] Yeah, with a deformed head.

Stuart Wellington

[54:49] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[54:50] He beats him up.

[54:51] Rogue gets pulled to hell by some kind of like snaky skeletons.

[54:54] I thought that was.

[54:55] I liked the way those snaky skeletons look.

[54:57] Yeah.

[54:57] Drag me to hell, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[54:57] And Shelly.

[54:58] They're called Snakingtons.

[55:00] Snakingtons.

Elliott Kalan

[55:01] Yeah.

[55:01] And Shelly floats back up to the surface and she's like, I don't want to leave you, Eric.

[55:04] And he goes, no, it's okay.

[55:05] I love you.

[55:06] And she goes back to life.

[55:07] And thanks to an EMT.

[55:08] That EMT?

[55:09] It's the old man from the afterlife.

[55:11] Hold on a second.

[55:11] But Eric, he's stone dead.

S4

[55:14] Cronos.

[55:14] He's not going back.

[55:15] Apparently.

[55:15] That's his name.

[55:16] Cronos.

[55:16] Oh, Cronos.

[55:17] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[55:18] That's something I did not pick up from the movie.

[55:20] And Eric.

Stuart Wellington

[55:21] What the father of Titans or whatever?

[55:24] Yeah.

[55:25] Egyptian god of time?

[55:26] He's been punished for devouring his children.

Elliott Kalan

[55:29] That's why he's there.

[55:29] Yeah.

[55:30] And so Eric, he monologues in the train yard about how their love will live on and everything

[55:35] she ever does.

[55:37] And now he's just the crow.

[55:38] And I guess he just hangs out in this gross, slimy afterlife now.

[55:42] Like, we don't see him go to hell at the end.

[55:43] Yeah, that's the weird part.

Dan McCoy

[55:44] I was expecting him to be dragged to hell like the film.

S4

[55:47] But if they're not reunited, doesn't that automatically mean that she's now a crow-esque in the FKA sequel?

Elliott Kalan

[55:56] I don't think so.

[55:59] I mean, that would be a little bit of a lie.

[55:59] She doesn't get him.

S4

[56:00] She's just like normal alive.

Elliott Kalan

[56:02] Yeah.

[56:02] What's this sequel going to be like, guys?

[56:04] I think like many people who have lost someone, she just has to keep living and continue on with her life.

[56:08] He gets to be a crow.

Stuart Wellington

[56:10] Yeah.

[56:10] And the thing is, is that over time, like, she'll just start to forget him.

[56:15] Does she get the chance to-

[56:16] No, no, no, Stuart.

[56:17] No, Stuart.

Elliott Kalan

[56:17] Stuart.

[56:18] This will-

[56:18] Their love will live forever.

[56:20] When in the beginning, you didn't get the feeling that this is a burning passion, a lady on fire style,

[56:25] a more food that can never be equaled, you know?

Dan McCoy

[56:28] Like, if she acts real nice in her second life, does she get to go to heaven or is she like still doomed to hell eventually?

Elliott Kalan

[56:35] Well, he's swapped with her.

[56:36] So, they made a big deal about how he has to go to hell and she's going to be okay.

[56:41] So, I guess now she has a second chance, Dan.

[56:42] She gets to decide if she goes to heaven or hell, you know?

S4

[56:45] Get up there with all the dogs.

[56:45] So, she marries another guy, has four kids, and then she's just like,

[56:49] Mommy, tell us a story about the guy who sacrificed himself so you could come back to life without him.

Stuart Wellington

[56:55] That would have been a way better opening of the movie than a dying horse.

[56:58] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[56:59] Well, I want-

[56:59] Like being a Titanic, kind of.

[57:01] Or I want the sequel where it takes place many years in the future and he goes back to visit her.

[57:06] And yeah, she's like a middle-aged woman who has a family and has lost-

[57:10] You know, that kind of fiery young spark has been tempered somewhat by the-

[57:14] By the-

[57:15] Just the things of life.

[57:16] And he's like still this like crazy, you know, immortal demon hunk.

[57:21] And they both have to deal with what this means.

[57:23] That like, he hasn't changed, but she has.

[57:26] And what is-

[57:27] Has she lived a better life in some ways?

[57:29] You know, is she at a better place than him?

[57:30] You know?

[57:31] Is he disappointed that she's no longer the woman that he once thought she was?

[57:34] You know?

S4

[57:34] And the final line is, Eric, I don't remember.

[57:39] I don't remember you, Eric.

[57:40] Sorry.

Stuart Wellington

[57:42] It'd be so funny if they-

[57:44] Or she'll get a bunch of details wrong and he's like, no.

[57:46] He was a demon guy who made you do things.

[57:49] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[57:51] She's washing dishes or her husband's washing dishes at night and the time goes, hey, you

[57:54] were telling me about that guy, Eric?

[57:56] Oh, yeah.

[57:56] He was-

[57:57] That was a wild time.

[57:58] I was-

[57:59] He was bonkers.

[58:00] I-

[58:00] You get-

[58:01] You know, when you're young, you get wrapped up on people.

[58:02] Oh, yeah.

[58:03] Like that girl you were telling me about that you dated for a little bit.

[58:06] I'm glad I got out of that.

[58:07] Anyway, so we gotta figure out the kid's school schedule for tomorrow.

[58:09] Who's picking up who?

Stuart Wellington

[58:10] You know?

[58:11] So the sequel just takes place when she's like, okay, I should reconnect with him a

[58:15] little bit.

[58:16] And they go out to dinner at like an Applebee's or something.

[58:18] Him and Eric.

[58:19] Yeah.

[58:19] Her and Eric.

[58:20] Yeah, her and Eric.

[58:20] And they're like realizing that they don't have as much in common as they used to.

[58:24] They got nothing in common.

[58:25] It's like the end of the graduate.

Elliott Kalan

[58:27] He's like, hey, do you still listen to Sisters of Mercy?

[58:30] And she's like, not that much, to be honest.

[58:32] Like every now and then, you know.

Dan McCoy

[58:35] Okay, let's do final judgments.

[58:37] Whether this is a good, bad movie, a bad, bad movie, or a movie you kind of like.

[58:41] I'm going to say that this is a bad, bad movie that was not as bad as I expected based on

[58:47] the reaction to it.

[58:49] Like I think it was, as I said before, like in some ways stylishly made.

[58:53] Like there was some care put into some of it.

[58:55] It's just that all of the characters were a bunch of nothings.

[58:59] And like I don't like the message of the movies.

[59:02] And it's kind of boring.

[59:05] So, bad, bad.

Stuart Wellington

[59:06] Yeah, that was a little bit like as long as everybody had fun response.

[59:09] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[59:11] Yeah, I'm going to say.

[59:12] Nobody got hurt as long as it's fine.

Stuart Wellington

[59:14] I mean, arguably, in many ways, that makes this better than the original The Crow movie

[59:19] because nobody got hurt.

Elliott Kalan

[59:20] It was a very low bar to clear in this being a better production than the original The Crow.

Stuart Wellington

[59:26] The, yeah, I mean, this is a bad, bad movie.

[59:29] I think there, like there are, it has the trappings of a professionally made feature.

[59:35] And I think it probably achieves what it's trying to do.

[59:39] But it is wrong.

[59:40] It's like, it's wrongheaded.

[59:41] It doesn't really, like there's no real place for it.

[59:44] On some level, it feels like a test reel or a demo reel so that this, so the people who made it could make a,

[59:50] like a full-on Marvel movie or something, like trying to show they're proficient enough to make an actual superhero movie

[59:56] because they didn't actually want to make something.

[59:59] It's just, it's just very bland.

[1:00:01] And like, it doesn't, nothing, there's not, there's very few memorable elements of it.

[1:00:08] Yeah.

[1:00:08] It's just kind of like a, like a blah.

[1:00:11] Blah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:12] Yeah.

[1:00:13] Yeah.

[1:00:13] Cause that was the Dracula review of it.

[1:00:16] The, I have to say that this is a, it's, I think it is not a good movie, but there were at times,

[1:00:22] it almost became a movie I kind of liked.

[1:00:24] If I was able to tap into the kind of mopey teenager side of myself where it's like, I could see myself as a depressed mopey teen watching this

[1:00:34] and being able to look past the fact that it is very slick, like a little too slick, a little too glossy for a movie that's trying to feel like it is about like,

[1:00:43] oh, it's tortured, broken, beautiful people, a love that lasts forever.

[1:00:47] And the only way to get revenge is to, is to unleash my anger and my pain on the, on those who did it.

[1:00:52] And like, I think it is a, I think it's a competently made thing, you know, in that way.

[1:00:57] It's just like you guys are saying, I agree with all the stuff about it.

[1:00:59] It's like kind of, kind of dull and the characters are kind of nothing, but I think it's, I cannot like it because of what you're saying that like the message of the movie is a,

[1:01:08] is, is one that I can't stand behind, which is that kind of, kind of beautification and glorification of being unhappy, you know,

[1:01:16] of being, being, being depressed or despairing.

[1:01:20] And I think that is a, it's a dangerous kind of message, especially at a time when it feels like young people,

[1:01:27] and this is a movie that's most likely you, you would think to be watched by young people is my guess.

[1:01:31] Young people and bad movie podcasters.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:33] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:33] And you have bad movie podcasters that young people are, I think.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:36] Who have no depression issues, by the way.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:39] I feel like young people now are more than maybe ever before are finding it harder and harder to find meaning in life.

[1:01:44] And so a movie like this become, that glorifies kind of like tragic trauma and sacrifice, I think, is a, is a, is a, is a dangerous type of message.

[1:01:53] I don't think young people, at the same time, it's so glossy that I feel like I don't know that it's as dangerous as it could be because it doesn't hit any real emotion.

[1:02:00] You know, it doesn't actually connect in that way.

[1:02:02] But I like, but every now and then there's a thing in it I like, like, like that the whisper effect is a dumb idea, but I like the way they pull it off.

[1:02:08] Danny Houston, I think, does exactly what he needs to do.

[1:02:11] The bad guy lady has presents.

[1:02:13] You know, there's, there's elements in it that work better than I thought it would.

[1:02:16] You brought presents?

[1:02:16] What?

[1:02:17] Yes, you brought presents.

[1:02:18] Yeah, but they're not great presents.

[1:02:20] It's a lot of like, it's a lot of dried fruit and things like that.

[1:02:22] But it's the thought that counts, you know.

[1:02:23] Yeah, yeah.

[1:02:23] What about you, Scott?

[1:02:24] Scott, unload on it.

S4

[1:02:25] Bad, bad.

[1:02:27] And this is coming from a guy who has done 260 episodes of a podcast called Overhated.

[1:02:33] I hated this movie.

[1:02:35] And I love your phrase, the trappings of a professionally made motion picture.

[1:02:41] I love that.

[1:02:43] Elliot, what you said about how it's like artsy and mopey and it's beholden to teen and young angst.

[1:02:52] That all describes the first film.

[1:02:54] This is just regurgitated, recycled misery.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:00] Well, yeah, I think that's the thing.

[1:03:00] I feel like if I had seen the first movie, because I still haven't seen it, like maybe I'd be like, I feel like this feels like, I mean, it feels a lot of times like a very high class perfume commercial that stars the crow.

[1:03:12] And I feel like, if anything, that's the thing that I think blunts the edge of danger from it, because it feels like a, because it doesn't feel real at all.

[1:03:21] You know, there's no actual stuff.

S4

[1:03:22] Even in some of the worst films Hollywood puts out, most of the time, the production designer and the cinematographer, they earn their check and they do here.

[1:03:32] But beyond that, I couldn't wait for it to end.

[1:03:34] I didn't like the, I didn't care about the character alive or dead.

[1:03:39] I just couldn't wait for it to end.

[1:03:40] I hate it.

[1:03:41] I'm sorry.

[1:03:43] I don't want to be the most negative, but I just think it's a soulless adaptation of a film that was a little shallow to begin with.

Stuart Wellington

[1:03:54] Especially something that like a story that was born out of an artist's real trauma.

[1:04:00] It's crazy to see like the Xerox of a Xerox of a Xerox that this movie is.

[1:04:04] Good point.

[1:04:05] Well said.

S6

[1:04:10] Jackie Cation.

[1:04:11] Hi, and welcome to the MaximumFun.org podcast.

[1:04:15] The Jackie and Lori show where we talk about stand-up comedy and how much we love it and how much it enrages us.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:21] We have a lot of experience and a lot of stories and a lot of time on our hands.

[1:04:25] So check us out.

[1:04:27] It's one hour a week and we drop it every Wednesday on MaximumFun.org.

S5

[1:04:32] Most of the plants humans eat are technically grass.

S6

[1:04:35] Most of the asphalt we drive on is almost a liquid.

S5

[1:04:39] The formula of WD-40 is San Diego's greatest secret.

S6

[1:04:44] Zippers were invented by a Swedish immigrant love story.

S5

[1:04:48] On the podcast, Secretly Incredibly Fascinating, we explore this type of amazing stuff.

S6

[1:04:54] Stuff about ordinary topics like cabbage and batteries and socks.

S5

[1:04:59] Topics you'd never expect to be the title of the podcast.

[1:05:02] Secretly Incredibly Fascinating.

S6

[1:05:04] Find us by searching for the word secretly in your podcast app.

S5

[1:05:09] And at MaximumFun.org.

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:14] Hey, folks.

[1:05:15] This is Stuart from The Flophouse telling you, you know what you probably need?

[1:05:19] A website.

[1:05:20] You know what?

[1:05:21] The best way to get one of those things?

[1:05:23] That's Squarespace.

[1:05:24] Now, Squarespace is our sponsor today.

[1:05:27] So it's important to know that Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer services and get paid all in one place.

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[1:05:41] That means a complete library of professionally designed and award-winning website templates with options for every use and category.

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[1:05:53] And she is a very creative person, but she also, if you're like her or I, you will appreciate having examples or templates to work off of as opposed to just trying to pull something fresh out of the sky.

[1:06:07] So that is one of the things that Squarespace offers is really great templates with options for every use, category, intuitive drag-and-drop editing.

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Dan McCoy

[1:06:42] Hey, and this is Dan over here.

[1:06:45] I also have a sponsor to tell you about, but I also want to say I enjoyed, you know, Stuart learning what I already know, which is that Squarespace can be a challenging thing to say sometimes.

[1:06:59] Uh-huh.

[1:06:59] Do you feel vindicated, Dan?

[1:07:02] No, I just, you know, I feel a warm sense of connection.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:05] I saw the look on your face, Dan.

[1:07:07] I read it as, now it's Stuart's turn in the barrel.

Dan McCoy

[1:07:10] Yeah.

[1:07:11] But speaking of warm, it's getting less warm out.

[1:07:14] You'll need some wardrobe items in your rotation that look sharp, feel good, but also feel comfortable, and you'll actually wear them.

[1:07:24] Enter Quince.

[1:07:26] And a little bonus, a little tip, since the holidays are coming up, Quince pieces make great gifts, too.

[1:07:33] This season's lineup is simple, but smart and easy with Quince.

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[1:07:47] They have a denim that nails the fit and comfort that you crave, the comfort you crave, you, Elliot.

[1:07:56] I see you craving it over there at a fraction of what you would expect to pay elsewhere.

[1:08:02] And by partnering directly with ethical factories and top artisans, they cut out the middleman to deliver quality at half the cost of other high-end brands.

[1:08:13] So you can get luxury pieces without that luxury price tag.

[1:08:18] I just got a navy shirt from Quince, a beautiful navy shirt that is very comfortable.

[1:08:26] I feel like a lot of dress shirts, the fabric can be stiff and unpleasant.

[1:08:32] This is a beautiful-looking shirt that is also a pleasure to wear.

[1:08:36] So give and get timeless holiday staples this season that last the whole season with Quince.

[1:08:43] Go to quince.com slash flop for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.

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[1:08:51] That is quince.com slash flop.

[1:08:57] Free shipping and 365-day returns.

[1:09:00] quince.com slash flop.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:03] Hey, the Flophouse is also brought to you by the Flophouse.

[1:09:06] The Flophouse has a bunch of Flophouse things coming up.

[1:09:09] This episode is being released on November 8th, so it is just one week, well, really eight days, until we will be appearing live in Chicago.

[1:09:17] A crazy night.

[1:09:18] Yep, the second city.

[1:09:20] It's called that because it was the second city in the world after Ur.

[1:09:24] And so we'll be in Chicago.

[1:09:27] We're doing two shows in one night.

[1:09:29] The early show is sold out.

[1:09:30] The late show, by this point, there may still be some tickets left.

[1:09:33] I'm recording this in the past for the future, so you're going to want to check and see.

[1:09:38] It's the Flophouse podcast.

[1:09:39] Go to flophousepodcast.com slash events, and you'll find all that information.

[1:09:44] We are appearing at Sleeping Village.

[1:09:46] It's going to be super fun.

[1:09:48] For each, both episodes, we'll be talking about Jim Belushi movies, Chicago's favorite son, but different Jim Belushi movies.

[1:09:55] And if you've been to a Flophouse live show, you know it's a lot of fun, and you're going to have an experience you'll never be able to replicate in a good way.

[1:10:02] And if you can't make it to the early show, come to the late show.

[1:10:05] It's going to be great.

[1:10:06] There will be two different shows.

[1:10:08] They will not be the same show done twice.

[1:10:10] We wouldn't do that to you.

[1:10:12] Speaking of shows and the Flophouse and different shows, let's say you can't make it to Chicago.

[1:10:17] Let's say you're in Chicago.

[1:10:17] What?

Dan McCoy

[1:10:18] And you couldn't get tickets for these ones.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:20] Don't worry.

[1:10:21] As you know, Flop TV is on the air.

[1:10:24] That's right.

[1:10:24] Theflophouse.simpleticks.com is where you can go to get tickets for Flop TV.

[1:10:28] Season 3 is going on right now.

[1:10:30] A week ago, as this episode comes out, we'll have done episode 3 where we were talking about Xanadu starring Olivia Fig Newton-John.

[1:10:37] That's not really her name.

[1:10:38] It's not really a Fig Newton-John.

[1:10:39] Wow.

[1:10:39] This is Newton-John.

[1:10:40] Putting respect on her name.

[1:10:42] Mad Magazine.

[1:10:43] Over here.

[1:10:44] Yeah, that was from our jokes and schlokes department or something like that.

[1:10:49] Joke and dagger.

[1:10:49] Yeah, joke and dagger.

[1:10:50] That's what it was.

[1:10:52] So the Flop TV season 3, it's been a lot of fun.

[1:10:55] We're having our great – Flop TV season 3 has been a lot of fun.

[1:10:59] We're doing our one-hour televised, on-your-computer-over-the-internet video version of the Flophouse.

[1:11:05] Each episode, you get a presentation.

[1:11:06] You get us talking about a movie.

[1:11:08] You get us answering questions.

[1:11:09] You get video segments.

[1:11:10] It's turning more and more into a real television show, which is very scary to me.

[1:11:14] So go to theflophouse.simpleticks.com to get your tickets.

[1:11:17] If you've missed the earlier shows or you can't make it to the shows when they air live, which is the first Saturday of each month at 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific, if you can't make it that time, don't worry.

[1:11:26] Your ticket gets you access to the recording, and you can watch those recordings, any of them, until the end of February when the show will be finished.

[1:11:33] So that's theflophouse.simpleticks.com.

[1:11:35] And then join us live, first Saturday of the month, every month through February at 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific.

Stuart Wellington

[1:11:42] You mentioned that it's becoming more and more like a TV show.

[1:11:44] You'll know when it's become a TV show, when it's covered on two-boy talking tube to two dudes tonight.

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:51] That's why you know we have heat in our own tail, like the Oroboros itself.

[1:11:55] And then podcasts can stop.

[1:11:57] So that's two great ways to see The Flophouse live, either in person in Chicago on November 16th or on your computer screen the first Saturday of every month or as a recording after the first Saturday of every month.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:10] Go to theflophouse.simpleticks.com for Flop TV.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:14] And I also want to mention before we go, I have a thing to promote that's just for me.

[1:12:18] Sorry, boys.

[1:12:19] This is Elliot only.

[1:12:20] Wait a minute.

[1:12:21] As this episode is coming out, my book, Joke Farming, How to Write Comedy and Other Nonsense from University of Chicago Press will be on store shelves within days.

[1:12:30] You can order it online, and I think you will enjoy it.

[1:12:34] It's a book all about how jokes work, how to write them, how to develop a reliable writing process.

[1:12:40] It is helpful for the professional writer but also for someone who's just curious about how humor works.

[1:12:45] And I think it is a funny book.

[1:12:46] It is written to be funny and to be a fun read.

[1:12:49] My wife has been enjoying reading it, and she is not interested in being a comedy writer.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:53] Or in anything that you do.

[1:12:56] Yeah, and she hates most of the work I do.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:58] So that's Joke Farming by me, Elliot Kalin.

[1:13:00] It's a book.

[1:13:01] You can read it.

Dan McCoy

[1:13:02] Let's answer some letters from listeners.

[1:13:07] Why not?

[1:13:08] Hey, we're here.

[1:13:10] I'm glad that you have given me consent to do some letters.

[1:13:13] You know what, Dan?

[1:13:14] No, let's not.

[1:13:16] Okay, well.

[1:13:17] What would you say if I said that, huh?

[1:13:18] I don't know.

[1:13:19] You have to come up with a segment then.

[1:13:21] Then let's answer the letters from listeners.

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:23] Okay.

[1:13:24] Tell us more about opera.

[1:13:26] This one is…

[1:13:26] I would love to.

[1:13:27] Okay, there have been a few performances that I go back to in my mind often.

[1:13:31] Yeah.

[1:13:31] Just really wonderful.

[1:13:32] A performance of Eugene Onegin that I didn't even want to leave the building when it was over.

[1:13:38] I just wanted to feel the vibrations in the building afterwards.

[1:13:43] So the Met will often do a double bill, Cavalier or Rusticana and Pagliacci because they're short operas.

[1:13:49] They'll do those together.

[1:13:50] And so I've seen those together a bunch of times.

[1:13:51] And Cavalier or Rusticana, they bring a horse on stage, which always makes the audience impressed.

[1:13:55] And it's just a classic Met opera thing.

[1:13:58] They'll be like, hey, guess what?

[1:13:59] There's a horse.

[1:13:59] We just bring it on stage.

[1:14:00] We sing around it.

[1:14:01] Take the horse off.

[1:14:02] Everybody loves it.

[1:14:03] Horses are huge.

[1:14:04] Dan, continue.

Dan McCoy

[1:14:06] So, speaking of Corvids, this is a Poe-related letter.

[1:14:12] Oh, yeah.

[1:14:12] The man who made Ravens famous.

[1:14:14] King of the Segways.

[1:14:15] Yeah.

[1:14:16] Yeah, this letter's from Rob.

[1:14:18] Edgar Allan Poe's The Raven Simone.

[1:14:20] I just finished watching Roger Corman's 1963 The Haunted Palace on Tubi.

[1:14:27] The movie really highlights that it is based on Edgar Allan Poe's poem of the same name.

[1:14:32] But as far as I can tell, the only two lines from it that might loosely have something to do with the movie are

[1:14:36] vast forms that move fantastically to a discordant melody.

[1:14:42] And then in the credits, also some unnamed story by H.P. Lovecraft is mentioned almost as an afterthought.

[1:14:49] The whole movie is soaked in Lovecraft stuff.

[1:14:52] Elder Gods, Arkham, weird mutated bodies, etc.

[1:14:56] My question is, do any of you guys know why movies switch from valuing Poe to valuing Lovecraft?

[1:15:03] Also, do you know the earliest depictions of Lovecraft or his themes in movies?

[1:15:08] Thanks for the great pod.

[1:15:09] Rob, last name withheld.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:10] So, Dan, you're talking about The Haunted Palace there?

Dan McCoy

[1:15:13] That was, yes.

[1:15:14] That was the movie.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:15] I believe that is the first movie that really depicts Lovecraft stuff.

[1:15:19] I think it's kind of funny that the –

S4

[1:15:20] It's based on the case of Charles Dexter Ward, actually.

[1:15:23] So, the credits – I can give you more info than the credits do.

[1:15:26] But it's always been like a great movie piece of trivia that it says Edgar Allan Poe's,

[1:15:31] but it's actually based on a Lovecraft story.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:34] Oh, it's funny.

[1:15:35] I think it's kind of funny that the director who's most associated with Lovecraft stuff also had a huge affection for Edgar Allan Poe.

[1:15:43] And I'm, of course, talking about the late, great Stuart Gordon.

[1:15:45] Yeah.

[1:15:46] Having done a bunch of stuff.

[1:15:48] And I think one of his last projects that unfortunately never got funded was a Edgar Allan Poe biopic –

[1:15:53] like a biopic about Edgar Allan Poe starring Jeffrey Combs.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:57] Well, because Jeffrey Combs would – he would do that one-man show as Edgar Allan Poe.

[1:16:01] I think – so, the switch from Poe to Lovecraft is an interesting one.

[1:16:05] And I have a couple possible explanations for it.

[1:16:09] Let's see what you guys think about these.

[1:16:11] One of them is literally just the changing of generations.

[1:16:14] Poe was around since the mid-19th century, and Lovecraft wasn't writing until the early 20th century.

[1:16:21] And so there's the people who were making movies earlier on would not be as aware of Lovecraft's work,

[1:16:26] but they were aware of Poe's work.

[1:16:28] And then later on, you have guys who were writing movies in the 60s.

[1:16:31] They know Lovecraft's work because that's the stuff.

[1:16:33] It's been around for longer, and they percolated with it.

[1:16:36] But I think there's also a – Poe and Lovecraft, they approach similar themes,

[1:16:41] which is kind of like the idea that behind normal life, there is this darker world or this darker feeling that you can't – once you know it exists, you can't ignore it.

[1:16:52] And there's a coldness about it.

[1:16:54] It does not care about you necessarily, but now it affects you.

[1:16:58] And Poe's was very much for a 19th century world, a pre-industrial world in a lot of ways, and Lovecraft's is very much for a modern world.

[1:17:06] And I think that's the – there's a greater mass dehumanization in Lovecraft's work than there is in Poe's.

[1:17:13] And I think that's a big – I think they speak to different things.

Dan McCoy

[1:17:15] I was going to say something similar that I feel like Poe, there's a gothic quality to his work that like unless you are deliberately doing a throwback might feel old-fashioned to people these days,

[1:17:26] whereas kind of the more upfront sort of unknowability of the horror in Lovecraft might speak to modern people more.

Elliott Kalan

[1:17:36] And you could also say Poe doesn't have monsters.

[1:17:38] Poe has strange things and crazy people, but he doesn't have monsters.

[1:17:41] And Lovecraft has big monsters.

[1:17:43] He doesn't have – Stranger Things was based on a – they say Edgar Allan Poe's Stranger Things, but really it's based on H.P. Lovecraft.

[1:17:49] And I think they said – once you get to a world that is – I mean Poe also like – Roger Corman was especially – he loved Edgar Allan Poe and he's making all those Poe movies.

[1:17:57] But I think it was also a way to like class up what he was doing.

[1:18:00] If he can say this is an adaptation of Edgar Allan Poe, then there's instantly a literary quality to it, which is kind of what they did in the 30s with like movies like The Raven or The Black Cat.

S4

[1:18:10] I think one theory I have is that Poe is kind of – like you guys said, if you're doing something in the 1800s, Poe sticks firmly there.

[1:18:24] Lovecraft seems to be much easier to adapt to the modern era.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:30] Yes, I think that's true.

[1:18:31] And futuristic.

[1:18:33] Yeah, and futuristic.

[1:18:34] And also that like Poe was respectable when people were making movies in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, and Lovecraft was not.

[1:18:43] And it wasn't until probably – I don't even know.

[1:18:46] Maybe like the 90s or later that Lovecraft was respectable.

[1:18:51] That Lovecraft was like literature.

S4

[1:18:53] Poe is Argento and Lovecraft is Fulci.

[1:18:57] I guess that's a way to put it.

Dan McCoy

[1:18:59] But when we say respectable, we also should of course note that we mean that his literary works became respectable.

[1:19:07] Oh, not the –

[1:19:08] Lovecraft's personal views have become less –

[1:19:10] Lovecraft the human has become less respectable.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:12] Dan is exclusively defending Lovecraft's gross crap.

[1:19:16] But also Edgar Allan Poe was like a not great guy.

[1:19:19] I just purely mean that their work has been accepted as literature at different times.

[1:19:25] And also that there's a scale difference.

[1:19:27] Like Poe is working on the scale of regular people for the most part, whereas Lovecraft is working on these enormous cosmic scales.

[1:19:35] And so I think that movies – it's hard to make like a little movie about a little spookiness unless it's like it's a super low-budget movie.

[1:19:43] Whereas – but even then like you don't see a lot of like big-budget movies based on – you don't like – big studios don't make Lovecraft movies that much.

[1:19:53] Yeah, I mean didn't Delturo try and do Mountains of Madness?

Stuart Wellington

[1:19:55] And they're like, nah.

[1:19:56] They're like, nah, I don't think so.

[1:19:58] Nah, Johnny Penguins, fuck off.

S4

[1:19:59] Speaking of Poe, I'd love for somebody to do an adaptation of Hopfrog and do it straight.

[1:20:05] Like just take it directly from the story.

Elliott Kalan

[1:20:07] I mean there's – you get some of that in Mask of the Red Death, right?

[1:20:12] And Fool's Fire, you're right, is basically Hopfrog.

[1:20:14] Yeah, that's Hopfrog, yeah.

[1:20:15] Yeah.

[1:20:16] But Fool's Fire, I mean it's all these puppets and stuff.

[1:20:18] Like it's not –

[1:20:19] Oh, I never seen that.

[1:20:20] There's a very straight adaptation.

[1:20:21] It's something Julie Taymor did years ago that's – where it's like I think the main character is a person.

[1:20:29] And there's like two human actors in it and the rest are all big puppets.

[1:20:33] Like the king and everything are all puppets.

[1:20:35] This was on stage, right?

[1:20:37] No, it was like a TV special because they used to show it on PBS.

[1:20:41] And I remember seeing it as a kid and it scared the hell out of me.

[1:20:43] I thought it was so strange.

Dan McCoy

[1:20:44] I'll look in.

[1:20:44] I'll dig it up.

[1:20:45] I want to see that.

[1:20:47] Let's get to the second letter.

Elliott Kalan

[1:20:49] Hopefully that was an interesting answer.

[1:20:51] It wasn't a funny answer.

[1:20:52] Well, you know.

[1:20:53] I made some fucking jokes, dude.

[1:20:55] Yeah, that's true.

[1:20:55] That's true.

[1:20:56] Yeah, but were they funny jokes?

Stuart Wellington

[1:20:59] Whoa, didn't realize it was my fucking performance review day.

[1:21:03] But Dan was right.

[1:21:04] Hope versus Lovecraft would be a good epic rap battle of history.

[1:21:07] Mm-hmm.

[1:21:08] So Dan, you and Elliot can do this cool YouTube video where one of you is Edgar Allan Poe and the other is HBO Grappin.

[1:21:13] Yeah, that's what we'll do.

[1:21:14] We'll do it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:21:14] We'll do it.

[1:21:15] I'm thinking Dan should be Lovecraft.

[1:21:17] And then you guys just do some sick raps against each other.

Elliott Kalan

[1:21:20] But I will say, as Dan said, as someone who is a huge fan of Lovecraft's work, like obviously his personal views are terrible.

[1:21:25] Yes, of course.

[1:21:26] He was a huge racist.

[1:21:27] A lot of racism is baked into his work in bad ways.

Dan McCoy

[1:21:30] So both of these letters, we're taping this during October.

[1:21:35] This will come out in November, but they both are sort of more October letters.

[1:21:42] This is from Heather.

Stuart Wellington

[1:21:43] Hopefully the world is less spooky when this comes out.

Dan McCoy

[1:21:46] This is from Heather who writes.

Stuart Wellington

[1:21:48] Heather writes, how's your October going?

Dan McCoy

[1:21:50] As part of the spooky season, I was re-watching the Rocky Horror Picture Show, and my husband and I were discussing parties in movies.

[1:21:59] If you had to choose any party in a movie to attend, which would it be?

[1:22:02] The obvious answer is, say it with me, Stu.

[1:22:05] Bilbo's 111th birthday party.

[1:22:07] It's going to be awesome.

[1:22:08] But what other party would you choose?

[1:22:09] Nobody's going to disappear.

S4

[1:22:11] What other party would you choose?

[1:22:12] You know that going into the party.

Elliott Kalan

[1:22:13] At least no one's going to disappear at the end.

[1:22:15] Certainly not the birthday boy.

S4

[1:22:16] When you said that me and Stuart are going to say it together, I thought for sure you were going to say toga.

Stuart Wellington

[1:22:25] Oh, no.

[1:22:26] I feel like I've progressed emotionally past the toga party in animals.

[1:22:30] Scary eyes wide shut one, maybe.

[1:22:32] I do not want to be at that party at all.

Elliott Kalan

[1:22:36] So Dan sends us the questions ahead of time, but he doesn't send us the full letters.

[1:22:40] So my answer was going to be the party in the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

[1:22:43] But I think instead I'm going to say the New Year's Eve party in The Thin Man, when it's all of the high society types and Nick Charles' crime buddies.

[1:22:53] And everyone's getting drunk and being silly.

[1:22:55] And it just seems like a really fun party.

Stuart Wellington

[1:22:57] Yeah, I mean, I'm having trouble thinking of parties, but so I'm going to sidestep this question with a different answer, which is concerts I wish I could be at.

[1:23:10] And that, of course, would be the concert from the end of Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey, when the robots come and punch off other robots' heads.

[1:23:17] If you saw that in the concert, you'd lose your shit.

[1:23:19] I would shit my pants.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:20] Yeah, and imagine how much scare it would be if you were at an opera and actual human severed heads were thrown at you.

Stuart Wellington

[1:23:25] I mean, that would be incredible if only I could attend such an opera.

Dan McCoy

[1:23:29] I think there's a whole genre of teen parties and teen comedies that are so much more impressive than any party that I ever experienced when I was young.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:42] Any teen party in a movie where there's a stage and someone is performing using an actual microphone?

[1:23:46] Oh, my God.

Stuart Wellington

[1:23:47] If I was at that party where they play Scotty Doesn't Know, the song of the summer.

[1:23:50] Let me be clear.

Dan McCoy

[1:23:51] Also, in this scenario, I am also a teen.

[1:23:53] I'm not just me.

[1:23:54] My current age is hanging.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:57] Well, similarly.

Stuart Wellington

[1:23:57] I would like that party.

[1:24:00] The one Dan just said where old Dan is at the teen's party.

Elliott Kalan

[1:24:03] Similarly, if I'm not me, but I'm a gremlin, I want to be the party the gremlins are throwing at the bar in Gremlins.

[1:24:08] They're having a great time.

[1:24:10] Or you could go across the streets in Snow White.

[1:24:11] Nothing bad happens to any of those gremlins.

[1:24:12] Yeah.

[1:24:13] But if I'm not a gremlin, I want to be doing 30.

[1:24:15] Yeah, or I could just go watch Snow White.

[1:24:17] They're having a great time, too.

[1:24:18] Gremlins have a great time.

Dan McCoy

[1:24:19] They do have a great time.

[1:24:21] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:24:22] They're the real heroes of that movie because they enjoy themselves.

[1:24:27] I don't like anything as much as gremlins like breaking shit.

S4

[1:24:32] My answer is simple.

[1:24:33] I want to go to this sleazy-ass bachelor party from Bachelor Party just so I could meet Tom Hanks.

[1:24:38] Yeah, that's pretty good.

[1:24:40] Then I'd leave.

[1:24:41] I mean, this is a mainstream comedy that has, like, mule sex jokes in 1984.

[1:24:48] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:24:48] Yeah.

[1:24:49] No, it's a very – well, yeah, only in 1984 with – I mean, that was the era of –

Elliott Kalan

[1:24:56] Well, that's what Orwell said.

[1:24:57] What he said, if you want to see the future, imagine a boot stomping on a donkey sex joke for all eternity.

[1:25:02] Yeah.

[1:25:02] 1984.

[1:25:04] The – watching that – I mean, I haven't seen that movie in such a long time, but I have to imagine watching that movie is like seeing your actual dad's bachelor party stuff, and you'll be like, oh, dad, like, what are you doing, dad?

Stuart Wellington

[1:25:16] Gross as hell.

[1:25:16] It's such an amiable movie, but so many sleazy things happen.

[1:25:20] Why do they order hot dogs at the all-male review?

[1:25:25] It's a foot long.

Dan McCoy

[1:25:29] Let us move on to recommendations, movies that are probably a better use of your time than The Crow 2024.

[1:25:35] Is that even possible?

[1:25:36] Possible.

[1:25:37] I'm going to recommend a movie, as I mentioned, though this is in November.

[1:25:42] We're recording in October.

[1:25:44] I saw this at a friend's Halloween horror movie marathon.

[1:25:49] I'll allow it.

[1:25:49] He was throwing – thank you, Stuart, for the permission.

Stuart Wellington

[1:25:52] I see what you're going to recommend, and this has been on my watch list for a really long time, and I keep mean to watch it.

Dan McCoy

[1:25:57] You're building up suspense.

[1:25:58] The film that Stuart wants to watch, and I have seen and recommend, is Next of Kin from 1982.

[1:26:05] It is an Australian horror movie.

[1:26:07] Wow.

[1:26:08] It is set in an old folks' home in a remote area of Australia that there are a series of mysterious deaths.

[1:26:18] It's kind of like an Australian jello in a weird way.

[1:26:23] It starts out pretty slowly, but as it goes on, it cooks and rises to a truly over-the-top great ending.

[1:26:33] So I recommend Next of Kin.

[1:26:36] Deep cut, man.

S4

[1:26:37] That's impressive.

[1:26:38] All I remember about that is the bathtub scene.

Stuart Wellington

[1:26:41] Yeah.

[1:26:41] It was on, I think, Criterion or something as part of their, like, some weirdo collection.

[1:26:47] Not the Patrick Swayze Next of Kin, right?

[1:26:49] Yeah, not the Patrick Swayze one.

[1:26:51] Did you, you said you saw it at a party.

[1:26:53] I was just wondering how I could stream this sucker.

Dan McCoy

[1:26:56] Well, because I saw it at a party, I'm not sure.

[1:26:58] I think it was on...

Stuart Wellington

[1:27:00] Real quick, text the person who threw the party.

Dan McCoy

[1:27:03] I think they just had a file.

[1:27:04] I think it was on Shudder for a while, but maybe not anymore.

[1:27:07] I don't know.

Stuart Wellington

[1:27:08] I'm going to recommend a movie I saw a couple weeks ago that I've been sitting with and I really liked,

[1:27:14] and that is the newest Luca Guadagino movie, After the Hunt.

[1:27:18] This is a movie that stars Julia Roberts, Andrew Garfield, Io Edna Beery.

[1:27:24] Did I say it right?

[1:27:25] It was a near...

[1:27:26] Okay, it doesn't.

[1:27:26] Michael Stuhlbarg, Chloe Savini.

[1:27:30] This is a movie...

[1:27:32] It's hard to explain exactly what it's about, but it is about allegations of sexual assault or sexual...

[1:27:41] Something like that in academia and the complications that are caused by everybody's various...

[1:27:49] Like, looking after their own interests and everybody's...

[1:27:54] As the viewer does not get to actually see any of what happens, it's all based on everyone's accounts.

[1:28:00] It's a complicated movie, and I think it's the kind of movie that intentionally is designed to force you to question your own biases.

[1:28:08] It is certainly not a movie for everyone, and it deals with some topics that not everybody's going to like.

[1:28:15] But it is a Luca Guadagino movie, so it's beautifully made, and I think it's incredibly well acted.

[1:28:21] Andrew Garfield, in particular, is incredible.

[1:28:24] And I think it's...

[1:28:26] Yeah, I think it's a really great movie, and I think it's going to...

[1:28:30] Like, you know, again, I think it's not a movie for everyone, but I think there's a lot of really good stuff in there.

[1:28:36] So check it out if that sounds interesting to you.

S4

[1:28:40] Saw somebody refer to Cancel Culture, the movie.

Stuart Wellington

[1:28:43] That's...

[1:28:44] I mean, that is certainly the...

[1:28:46] A relatively low media literacy take on the movie.

[1:28:51] That's what people said about Tar, too, right?

[1:28:54] Well, that's the thing.

[1:28:55] I feel like it's...

[1:28:56] It's...

[1:28:57] I think it is suffering from similar...

[1:29:00] Some of the same responses that some folks had to Tar.

[1:29:04] Ah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:04] Well, I want to talk about a movie that is equally complicated, equally complex, and that is 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea from 1954.

[1:29:14] Which...

[1:29:14] My younger son is in a big Jules Verne phase right now, and so we were watching...

[1:29:19] And this is one that I had not seen in so many years, and I didn't really remember very well.

[1:29:22] And we started watching it, and he was just enthralled by it.

[1:29:25] And I was like, this is a much better movie than I remember it being.

[1:29:28] Like, it moves real well.

[1:29:30] The performers in it are great.

[1:29:33] Kirk Douglas seems to be having so much fun playing this kind of like...

[1:29:36] His old-fashioned type of character, which is kind of like a brash, kind of like guy who doesn't think through things, as opposed to the Spartacus type of, you know, guy who is a noble hero type thing.

[1:29:46] There's one scene involving natives on an island that are probably cannibals that I...

[1:29:51] That isn't...

[1:29:51] That even though my son loved it, I was like, this is not...

[1:29:54] This is aged slightly less well.

[1:29:55] But the effects in it look great still.

[1:29:58] All the design stuff looks really great.

[1:29:59] The underwater stuff is still really cool.

[1:30:01] And it's just a super fun movie.

[1:30:03] It's just like a fun, old-fashioned adventure movie.

[1:30:06] And it feels like it is not...

[1:30:08] It's not afraid to be like fun, but it's also not stupid, you know.

[1:30:15] So I'd recommend it.

[1:30:16] It's the original, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea.

[1:30:18] By original, I mean, I think the 50s one.

[1:30:21] I mean, obviously, the book is the original.

Stuart Wellington

[1:30:23] I remember as a kid just being blown away by the sets.

[1:30:26] Like, the sets are so cool.

S4

[1:30:27] The scale of it is wild, especially if you're a kid.

[1:30:30] I saw it when I was like 10, and I loved it.

[1:30:33] I haven't seen it since.

[1:30:34] But it's a great adventure movie.

Elliott Kalan

[1:30:35] The Nautilus effects and everything like that, they all still work great.

[1:30:40] Like, it really looks cool.

[1:30:41] So...

S4

[1:30:42] I would like to recommend an Australian art film called Primitive War.

[1:30:47] And it is about a platoon of Vietnam soldiers who are sent on a very dangerous mission.

[1:30:55] And they come across an entire area populated by dinosaurs.

[1:31:00] And it is fun.

[1:31:02] It is, like, it feels like an 80s action movie combined with, like, a Spielberg aspirant.

[1:31:10] Not Spielberg, but somebody who is aping Spielberg.

[1:31:13] Dare I even say Joe Dante-ish.

[1:31:16] It is fun.

[1:31:17] And got Jeremy Piven, which I don't love.

[1:31:21] But other than that, it is...

[1:31:23] And it's a bit over long.

[1:31:24] It's over two hours.

[1:31:25] But it's on VOD now.

[1:31:27] It's called Primitive War.

[1:31:28] It is...

[1:31:29] Let's put it this way.

[1:31:31] It's better than the last five Jurassic sequels.

[1:31:36] No bullshit.

Stuart Wellington

[1:31:38] Well, that's been...

[1:31:40] No, it's also got the brother from True Blood with the really crazy abs.

[1:31:44] Ryan Quanton.

[1:31:45] Yeah.

S4

[1:31:46] Oh, Stuart, this is so up your alley.

[1:31:48] Anybody would like it.

[1:31:49] But I was pleasantly surprised.

[1:31:51] I thought it'd be like, you know, a bunch of dead air and two good action scenes.

[1:31:55] Nope.

[1:31:56] It's fun.

[1:31:56] Throughout.

[1:31:57] It is a good B movie.

Dan McCoy

[1:31:59] That has been...

[1:32:00] This has been the first of our episodes in Movember.

[1:32:04] As I would like to remind listeners that we are doing four full episodes in this month.

[1:32:14] You're welcome.

[1:32:15] Those of you who, you know, aren't as into the minis as you are the main episodes where we talk about a bad movie.

[1:32:24] You get four on this.

S4

[1:32:24] You're not listening to that two boy, two boy, two V.

[1:32:27] Thank you.

[1:32:28] If you're not listening to those episodes, come on.

[1:32:31] You're missing some gold.

Stuart Wellington

[1:32:32] Uh-huh.

[1:32:33] Yeah.

[1:32:33] But we thought, why don't we give you Moe Flophouse in the form of four full episodes with four great guests.

[1:32:41] I'm so excited for the rest of Movember.

[1:32:44] I'm so excited to see if it breaks the Flophouse, if we can't handle it.

[1:32:48] Well, we are doing...

[1:32:50] The Crucible in which we form an even stronger bomb.

[1:32:53] The Crucible?

Dan McCoy

[1:32:54] We did pick a bomb that along with this, of course, we have Flop TV, but we also have a live show that we're flying to in Chicago.

[1:33:02] So it's a whole lot of Flophouse for us.

[1:33:03] So we might be broken.

[1:33:04] We might get broken.

[1:33:05] We might be broken.

[1:33:06] But speaking of great guests...

Stuart Wellington

[1:33:07] I'm going to have to quit my other jobs and dedicate myself wholly to the Flophouse.

[1:33:11] Speaking of great guests, we'd like to...

[1:33:12] We will be beautifully broken.

Dan McCoy

[1:33:13] Beautifully broken.

[1:33:14] Thank Scott for being here.

[1:33:16] Scott, before we fully sign off, are there things you would like to plug or point people to?

S4

[1:33:21] Oh, well, anybody who's listened to my podcast, Overhated, would know that these three gentlemen separately have all guested at one time or another.

[1:33:29] And I hope to have Elliot back on again soon.

[1:33:32] Dan and I just recently did an episode on 1981's Neighbors, which is a fascinating, weird comedy.

Stuart Wellington

[1:33:40] Stuart, what was your last episode on Overhated?

S4

[1:33:42] We did Ice Pirates.

[1:33:44] The Ice Pirates.

Stuart Wellington

[1:33:45] Yes, yes.

[1:33:46] Beautiful.

S4

[1:33:47] And a couple years ago, Elliot, you did.

[1:33:50] I don't remember off the top of my head.

[1:33:53] In a while.

[1:33:54] But we're going to have him back soon.

[1:33:56] Yes, I would love to be back soon.

[1:33:58] Yeah, it's just basically...

[1:33:59] Oh, we did Masters of the Universe.

[1:34:01] Masters of the Universe, 1987.

[1:34:03] Perfect, yes.

[1:34:04] And it's basically...

[1:34:06] I'm a huge fan of the Flophouse and any kind of mystery science theater.

[1:34:12] Anytime you're knocking a bad or questionable movie, I'm a huge fan.

[1:34:16] But years ago, I thought, why not try to do the opposite?

[1:34:18] Why not try to take your Ishtars, your Waterworlds, your Catwomen and talk about why they're so disgustingly hated?

[1:34:28] Is there some historical reference?

[1:34:30] Is there some kind of reason?

[1:34:32] And the guest will always like the movie.

Stuart Wellington

[1:34:35] And I do like the twist where it is like a...

[1:34:39] In a way, almost like defending a movie that you remember kind of liking or like at least trying to take a different perspective on it.

S4

[1:34:46] Yeah.

[1:34:47] Yep.

[1:34:47] You can find it at patreon.com slash scott eweinberg to subscribe.

[1:34:52] And if you go to your normal podcatcher, you will find some free episodes.

[1:34:56] But it's mostly a Patreon program.

[1:34:58] And I am extremely grateful to all the patrons and the guests like these three here.

[1:35:03] So thank you.

[1:35:04] Well, we would also...

Stuart Wellington

[1:35:06] Thanks so much for joining us today.

Dan McCoy

[1:35:07] Yeah.

[1:35:07] Oh, it was a ball.

[1:35:08] You know I love doing this show.

[1:35:10] I love it.

[1:35:11] And in addition to thanking Scott, we would also like to thank Alex Smith, our producer.

[1:35:15] He goes by the name Howell Doughty.

[1:35:18] You can find his music at Bandcamp.

[1:35:20] You can find him on Twitch, doing Twitch streams.

[1:35:23] You can look up his podcast.

[1:35:26] I'd like to thank our network, Maximum Fun.

[1:35:29] MaximumFun.org is where you find all the great MaxFun shows.

[1:35:33] And you can become a member who supports us and get access to bonus content.

[1:35:38] But for this episode of The Flophouse, I have been Dan McCoy.

[1:35:42] I am still Stuart Wellington.

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:44] I am Elliot Kalin, the robot.

[1:35:46] I remain Scott E. Weinberg.

Stuart Wellington

[1:35:49] Also a robot.

[1:35:51] Also a robot.

S4

[1:35:52] Goodbye from the robot family.

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:54] No, they're all becoming robots now.

[1:35:56] Beep boop.

Dan McCoy

[1:36:04] I'm trying to get us both better in the...

[1:36:06] You were both in the stream.

[1:36:07] I know, but it looks sort of like more cut off somehow.

[1:36:10] We're not going to use any of this video, are we?

[1:36:12] Because I hate Beep.

[1:36:14] We're going to use a little clip, probably.

[1:36:18] But I don't know.

[1:36:20] Not the whole thing.

[1:36:21] Not the whole thing.

[1:36:22] Okay.

[1:36:22] We have to...

[1:36:23] We use a little clip for promos.

Stuart Wellington

[1:36:25] Is that okay, Scott?

[1:36:26] If we use a few short clips for social media promotion.

[1:36:29] Yes.

Elliott Kalan

[1:36:30] None of them will be longer than 17 minutes.

[1:36:34] Okay.

[1:36:35] No.

[1:36:36] Maximum Fun.

S4

[1:36:38] A worker-owned network.

[1:36:39] Of artist-owned shows.

[1:36:41] Supported.

[1:36:42] Directly.

[1:36:43] By you.

Ep.#464 - The Crow (2024), with Scott Weinberg

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