Ep.#464 - The Crow (2024), with Scott Weinberg

[0:00] On this episode, we discuss the crow.

[0:02] Is it my favorite bird?

[0:05] No.

[0:08] What is your favorite bird?

[0:09] Yeah, I don't know.

[0:10] Probably the what's what's the one with the big bill?

[0:14] What's the pelican?

[0:15] Yeah, I like that guy.

[0:16] Oh, man, he's a silly buns.

[0:18] Have you seen the way they die for fish?

[0:19] It's bonkers.

[0:21] They should make a movie out of that.

[0:22] Yeah, bring me back to life.

[0:25] Carrying my soul in the little bulge of his little bit.

[0:30] And.

[0:51] Hey, everyone, welcome to the flop house.

[0:53] I'm Dan McCoy.

[0:53] I'm Stuart Wellington.

[0:55] I'm Ellie Kalin.

[0:56] And today we've got a special guest, Stuart.

[0:57] Who is our guest?

[0:58] That is special today for us.

[0:59] We have film critic, well-known podcaster, Scott Weinberg and friend of the pod.

[1:05] Returning guest, Scott Weinberg.

[1:08] That's true.

[1:09] It's been a while since Artemis fell.

[1:10] I'm thrilled to be back.

[1:11] Hi, Bob.

[1:13] Oh, while since Artemis fell.

[1:15] Yeah, that's what America says.

[1:16] Like what's Artemis up to?

[1:19] Oh, America's like, oh, it's been a while since Artemis fowl when it

[1:22] seemed like we had no problems.

[1:23] You know, everything was just fine.

[1:25] The worst thing we had to deal with was Judy Dench saying top of the morning

[1:28] in a tough guy voice.

[1:29] Oh, and she has those like little ears, right?

[1:31] Yeah, she's like a little she's like a little elf or something.

[1:34] My niece named her son Artemis, and she's never heard of the movie.

[1:39] What are the odds of that?

[1:41] How about probably kind of high?

[1:43] Actually, it's like the idea that more people have gone to the Waterworld

[1:47] stunt show than seen the movie Waterworld.

[1:49] Did it was named after a hotel Artemis instead?

[1:52] Hmm.

[1:53] No, but apparently A-R-T-E-M-I-S is the female version.

[1:58] But then there's a male version that's spelled with a U at the end there.

[2:01] Artemis.

[2:02] And when she named him that he's only two now.

[2:05] And when she named him that I just went, what?

[2:08] But now we call him Artie.

[2:10] And it's it's great.

[2:11] Well, thank you for coming to our name etymology podcast.

[2:16] The Name House.

[2:17] We were so we're talking about the Crow.

[2:20] What was this? 2024?

[2:21] Well, what do we do in the Clubhouse, Dan?

[2:23] Oh, that's a good point.

[2:23] Talking about the Crow.

[2:24] Thank you for promising.

[2:26] This is a Crow podcast.

[2:27] This is the Caw House.

[2:28] Every week, every week we talk about the Crow.

[2:32] This is a podcast where we watch a movie that was rejected

[2:35] by critics or audiences or both a bad movie by the

[2:40] the ruling of the world.

[2:42] Then we see what we think about it.

[2:44] We talk about it.

[2:44] The International Criminal Court did cleared it bad movie.

[2:48] And we say, should it be overturned on appeal?

[2:50] That's what we're all about.

[2:51] Yeah.

[2:51] And this is, of course, a remake of the beloved 90s,

[2:55] the Crow starring Brandon Lee, who tragically died

[2:58] during the filming of that picture, a movie that I saw

[3:02] in the theaters, like, you know, any disaffected teen boy.

[3:07] I loved it at the time.

[3:08] I tried to revisit it recently.

[3:10] I'm like, well, maybe some things just stay in the past.

[3:13] Did you ever dress up as did you ever dress up as the Crow?

[3:16] For what you do, all those pictures, because, Dan,

[3:18] then you really got into the face paint.

[3:20] When you were a teen, I was not that guy.

[3:22] I was I hung out with that kind of guy, but I never had the guts

[3:26] to go full that kind of guy.

[3:30] Yeah.

[3:30] Do you guys do you guys have any other than obviously,

[3:34] we know Dan's a huge crowhead, but do you guys have any

[3:38] relationship with

[3:40] the relationship with the the original movie,

[3:43] the Alex Proyas movie or with the comic book?

[3:46] Because I'm going to admit I have actually never seen

[3:49] the original movie and I've never read the original Mike.

[3:51] That's a Mike Barr comic.

[3:53] And James O'Barr, James O'Barr.

[3:54] I get mixed up with Mike W.

[3:55] Barr is a different comic writer, the James O'Barr.

[3:57] And that the so I'm I know of the general premise of the Crow

[4:02] and the general look of the Crow.

[4:04] But I was coming into this naked as a baby.

[4:07] You know, no, no, no preconceived notions.

[4:10] You didn't like crush that fucking like that soundtrack was a banger.

[4:13] Yeah, it's like it was a staple of 90 soundtracks.

[4:17] And I think it features probably the only U2 song I like.

[4:20] It has that great Nine Inch Nails cover of the Joy Division song, Dead Souls.

[4:24] It's just, yeah, sounds like a great soundtrack.

[4:26] Industrial and goth classic, I would say.

[4:29] Yeah. What about the U2 Batman song, Stuart?

[4:32] Oh, OK. I like that one, too.

[4:34] I'm sorry. Yeah.

[4:35] Apparently, U2 only works for me if they're doing

[4:38] doing music.

[4:40] Yeah. What about the Spider-Man musical?

[4:43] They are a very dramatic band.

[4:45] So maybe that's like sort of their what where they exist best, you know,

[4:48] where they can like wear their heart on their sleeve.

[4:50] Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense.

[4:51] Scott, what about you?

[4:52] And they all have like fucking superhero names like Bono and The Edge.

[4:56] The Edge and probably other names.

[4:58] I can't name a single other member of the band, but probably Spider-Man.

[5:02] Something Mullins.

[5:03] Yeah. Larry Mullins, I think.

[5:05] Larry Mullins. The Edge.

[5:07] Moon Mullins. That's a comic name.

[5:08] Yeah, that's true. Moon Mullins.

[5:11] Scott, what about you? What's your Crow history or Crow story?

[5:14] It's like Stuart said, there's two kinds of dated.

[5:16] There's dated like teen sex comedies from the 80s that make you cringe.

[5:21] And then there's dated where it's still a good movie, but it is all a moment.

[5:26] And I think Crow is that second one.

[5:29] You know, you watch it and it is pure 1993, 94, 95.

[5:34] Hot topic. Dark Tim Burton kind of, you know, disaffected, angsty youth.

[5:41] And it still works for me.

[5:42] I think it's a good revenge story.

[5:46] That's about it. I like it.

[5:47] And that was the time that we all, you know, we had our chips in on Alex Proyas.

[5:51] We're like, you know, you made this, you made Dark City.

[5:54] He's going to be in Dark City after this, right?

[5:55] A big director. Right. I think so. Yeah. Yeah, I believe so.

[5:59] And then, yeah, kind of kind of biffed a little bit.

[6:01] The I think I think Dark City is not a movie you get to make

[6:04] without having the Crow as a success.

[6:06] Yeah, right. To borrow a term, it's kind of this was his that was his blank check.

[6:10] Yeah. Not familiar with it.

[6:12] I so, yeah, I remember obviously, you know, seeing the trailer for the Crow.

[6:17] I was like, oh, this is going to be the best movie ever seen.

[6:19] Went to the movie.

[6:19] I'm like, this is a pretty almost the best movie I've ever seen.

[6:22] Went and read the comic book.

[6:23] And I was actually kind of surprised at how the comic is.

[6:27] You know, the comic was written and drawn by James O'Barr

[6:30] as a way to work through the loss of his fiance at

[6:35] because of a drunk driver car crash.

[6:38] And he so like the book is it's much less of like an action

[6:43] a superhero story and a lot more of just like this sad guy,

[6:48] like think like thinking about his his dead partner

[6:53] and then and occasionally going and performing acts of violence

[6:57] to these criminals in, I think, Detroit.

[7:00] And it's it's like stylish, but not like stylish, like the

[7:04] it's not like all black leather and like and strobing lights like the movie.

[7:09] Well, this remake is certainly, you know, it's faithful

[7:13] to the not being action and just moping around for a long time.

[7:17] Like there is a big action sequence at the end.

[7:20] But mostly I was watching this.

[7:22] I'm like, wow.

[7:23] Like the first The Crow, like they're dead when we meet them.

[7:28] Like the first scene is is their crime scene being investigated.

[7:33] Their murder scene.

[7:34] And this movie takes like 40 minutes for any crowiness to have.

[7:39] This is a slow burn or someone call it a crow burn of a movie.

[7:43] So why don't we talk about James Coburn of a movie?

[7:47] I also do want to point out this director is known for delivering

[7:51] kind of like glossy, big budget stinkers.

[7:54] Snow White and the Huntsman.

[7:55] Yeah. And also in the in the vein of adapting comic books that I am a fan of.

[8:00] I noticed that back in 2011,

[8:03] he did a short film of Charles Burns's Black Hole.

[8:07] He did. Yes.

[8:09] I have not watched it.

[8:10] I am set like I don't want to be sad about it.

[8:14] But my spirits were raised when the news just broke about Jane.

[8:18] Schoenbrun pronunciation is slated to direct

[8:22] a live action black hole, which I can't think of.

[8:26] That's a good. Yeah, that's a great thing.

[8:28] That's great. I'll look forward to that.

[8:29] That's what I got a question for you, if you don't mind.

[8:33] Having read the comic book, can you tell me if this remake

[8:37] any of it?

[8:38] Because like there's stuff in this remake that's not in the original film.

[8:43] And I'm thinking either they created like the idea that the villain is immortal.

[8:48] Is that from the comic book?

[8:49] Because it's stupid as shit either way.

[8:51] So the thing is, is that the the Alex Proyas movie

[8:56] took the original comic and added a whole bunch of extra stuff to it.

[9:01] And this adds an extra and even more extra layer of superhero

[9:04] nonsense, because literally like the guys who he's getting revenge on

[9:09] in the comic book are like just a gang of like criminals. Right.

[9:13] And one of them is just like a rotten street, rotten street gang up against

[9:17] the guy who is back from the dead supernaturally.

[9:20] So it's the supernatural versus the super evil.

[9:23] And like that works in the original crow.

[9:26] This time, it really does feel like someone said, let's DC it up.

[9:32] I mean, I understand the impulse.

[9:34] I think it's wrong, but I understand the impulse of being like, well,

[9:37] the crow has so much not dying powers that to just put them up

[9:40] against like street toughs feels like, you know, he's overmatching them so much.

[9:45] You know, so like, let's have a villain who can take on the crow.

[9:50] Right. And then they get they get really do that to play him.

[9:53] OK. Yeah. Yeah.

[9:55] It's hard to take Danny Houston serious.

[9:56] I love you, but man, he could do.

[10:00] as the naked gun proved he could do this kind of villain part in his sleep and in this movie he

[10:04] kind of does he kind of does i mean well that's the thing is he is a they're very lucky i think

[10:08] they're very lucky to have danny houston because he can do it so easily yeah but it's not fair

[10:12] enough yes he's not doing more than than danny houston it also like it really makes me want to

[10:16] see an erotic thriller starring danny houston because i think he can bring the fucking sure

[10:21] he's a sexual dude he could do it yeah so let's go to let's talk about the plot of this movie

[10:26] from the beginning so we mentioned this is uh this directed by rupert sanders this is his second

[10:30] appearance on the flop house in a movie right because he did a ghost in the shell yeah we've

[10:33] done three features and you got him twice yeah yeah we did the uh and lucky us like i said the

[10:40] i remember seeing snow white and the huntsman in the theater and afterwards i was like what was

[10:43] that was that like what was that it was like it was one of the emptiest feeling movies i think

[10:47] that i had yeah um so let's talk about the crow 2024 version we start out with a classic opening

[10:55] must be classic crow kid walking home finds a wounded horse outside a trailer covered in crows

[11:00] and he removes some barbed wire from the horse which i guess scars his hands forever

[11:04] and if i could interrupt real quick this moment this moment inspired me to just keep a list of

[11:12] adjectives that this movie is as i ran through it and the first one i wrote capital m miserable

[11:21] what a horrible opening it's the opening horse right off the bat save the horse moment but it

[11:27] doesn't it dies right it doesn't save the horse the horse dies and also this is and it's this i'm

[11:32] like okay i guess this is going to be like the traumatic memory that he's cut this is a traumatic

[11:36] origin it doesn't he does he stops thinking about it pretty quickly um so he's but he's

[11:40] the his adult self is tossing and turning in bed and there's a moment where they're like hey can

[11:45] we lose the horse part in the beginning they're like i don't know at one point he has scars on

[11:48] his hands will the audience understand what's going on we really need motivation for him being

[11:53] sad well if he couldn't save a horse once that'll do it uh he is he and he in voiceover is talking

[12:00] about the pain you have once that all the pain you feel when someone you love dies credits the crow

[12:05] okay we come back uh what do you think of the credit sequence pretty awesome to be honest i

[12:10] don't remember it okay it was kind of like uh it reminded me of uh what the girl in the dragon

[12:17] credit sequence but without the uh very cool expensive sound song choice did you guys happen

[12:22] to notice how many credits there were for producers no i'm guessing a zillion i know

[12:27] it's a common you know it's a common sticky joke for critics like types like us but there's over

[12:34] 40 producers on this movie but that's why it's so good that's why it's 40 times as good as a

[12:40] regular movie that's the thing the best meal you're gonna have is one when 40 chefs make it

[12:44] well there's a common phrase not enough cooks in the kitchen and it's when something's just

[12:49] not working you know you've heard you've heard of five napkin burgers what about five chef burger

[12:54] i i you know back in the day when twitter was entertaining uh i said something like oh this

[12:59] movie i just watched had torn has 28 producers with that many producers it must be good

[13:06] nope yeah nope you're just lucky you'd be yeah yeah like odds are one of them's gonna really

[13:11] nail it yeah with that with that many people looking at the footage how could the movie fail

[13:15] to be great i guess it's before we i mean we're about to be introduced to them we're about to

[13:20] meet we've only gotten about 45 seconds into the movie yeah our two leads we have our two leads

[13:25] one you know uh the crow is uh bill skarsgard we'll get we'll get to him we'll get to him yeah

[13:30] so because first we meet sadie and shelly these two two young women they're anxious because they

[13:34] have a video they could use to take down some kind of super terrible bad guy we don't know what that

[13:38] video is just yet they're like we got to get rid of this video oh no which after learning about

[13:43] what's going on we're like there's no way that would do anything no yeah this is it's not going

[13:48] to do what they want uh sadie walks in a world where there are multiple photos of the president

[13:53] next to his best friend a notorious sex criminal then people are like what are you going to do i

[13:58] don't know maybe it happens in the crow the uh sadie that's true that danny houston does have

[14:05] whisper in your ear and you'll kill yourself powers i don't think he's going to be really

[14:10] worried about these he's got probably crazy ladies with our phone well nobody is he is worried about

[14:14] this video that's why that's why he is tracking them down so uh sadie walks into her apartment

[14:19] and finds a character i could only call lady bad guy i didn't i don't remember if they ever named

[14:23] her but she's kind of like oh she's fuck she's the she's in foundation and this guy directed

[14:28] some foundation that makes he directed the pilot foundation that's right and so this this character

[14:33] is listen as listed as uh as marion in the credits i guess but i but i i don't remember

[14:39] yeah i don't think they ever say her name and uh she's or if they did it's useless but she's she

[14:43] is the bad she's the one who's like she's the second in command to the real bad guy and she

[14:47] doesn't get her hands dirty but she's always there when the thugs are beating people up none of these

[14:50] characters are including our heroes are given personalities but at least i i will say that

[14:55] this actress has presence there's something about her that's compelling yeah i would say

[15:00] in a in a uh like a good movie of this like each of these characters because they all kind of have

[15:06] like different looks thumbs up but they all should have like cool like skills like somebody should

[15:11] have like a flying guillotine or somebody somebody should have like a cool like i don't know really

[15:16] good at kicking or something one of them one of them what if you can slap your head right off

[15:21] yeah exactly yeah i mean one of them one of them farts so it's like a poison gas characters could

[15:26] slap your head right off elliot we would be talking about it still there must be there must

[15:31] be a hong kong action movie there's a guy who can slap so hard he slaps people's heads off there has

[15:34] to be it's called head slapper probably i feel like a granny character that does that is even

[15:39] better yeah it's called shaolin head slap isn't that what slappy and the stinkers is about oh i

[15:44] sir i've seen slappy the stinkers you are no it's one of the strangest movies about a uh what is it

[15:52] a seal that you could imagine so is the seal slappy or the stinkers we don't have time for

[15:59] that like a gang of kids no i think they're sort of a little rascals uh bunch anyway so uh so

[16:05] anyway um morose was another adjective sorry yes morose and so uh lady bad guy drug sadie and and

[16:12] kidnaps her and shelly is worried she calls their friend dom she goes shelly is played by uh what

[16:18] pop star fka twigs fk twigs which stands for knowing uh about twigs

[16:27] yeah you go to her for twig facts i looked up in case you're interested her real name is

[16:32] talia barnett it's a great name it is beautiful i think talia barnett's that's a good stage name

[16:38] i don't know why you wouldn't use that that's a hollywood that's a golden age hollywood stage

[16:41] and they'd be like your name is dora skabowski no no you're talia barnett now so i was born fka

[16:47] twigs my parents wanted me to know about twigs they made me for knowing about twigs my parents

[16:53] were eating alphabet soup at the time and and twigs the favorite snack well my parents are

[17:03] anyway i'm trying to think what kind of animal eats twigs none of them i guess

[17:07] my parents are termites so um so the uh so anyway shelly's worried she wants to get out

[17:14] she's being followed in order to escape she gets herself arrested on drug possession

[17:18] and meanwhile we're being suddenly start being introduced to a very heavily tattooed guy

[17:23] taking a shower at an institute and that's bill skarsgård as eric my dude has like the crispiest

[17:29] like brand new fresh set of tattoos for like a covered in stick and poke like classic uh like

[17:36] williamsburg dude tattoo set now they all look so they all look like he just got them in the last

[17:42] couple days like he just rolled into a sticker book i saw this in your letterbox review stewart

[17:48] and i'm like this is an observation that a man with tattoos would make but yeah it was lost on

[17:52] me i wasn't like oh these guys tattoos are like too crispy yeah well it just looks like they look

[17:57] super fresh and clean for a guy who looks like a guy whose lifestyle would suggest he sleeps in

[18:03] garbage piles he's supposed to and he's supposed to be a guy who has who has hit the bottom of the

[18:07] barrel he's he's you know he's trying to kick drug addiction and he's yeah he's a living that

[18:12] living that scum lifestyle but yeah his tattoos look like they were straight with it like a ruler

[18:17] you know he looks like a henchman from chappy yes yeah he looks like a de antwoord yeah and for

[18:22] somebody who has hit the bottom of the barrel my dude is chopped up he is so jacked and like

[18:27] super skinny he's incredibly depressed and while whereas most people when they're that depressed

[18:32] they channel that into a lack of care about their own life he has channeled into just like

[18:37] just must be constant sit-ups constantly yeah that there are a lot of uh uh people

[18:43] addicted to drugs out there with let's call it low body fat percentages but he is muscly

[18:51] maybe it's because i live in la but i have driven by a number of shirtless homeless men where i'm

[18:54] like that guy is shredded like i could never get and then i remember like oh yeah he's probably

[18:59] he's not eating much and that's why all of his muscles are sticking out but he's also got one of

[19:02] those cool like like half mullet hairdos that everybody on apple tv plus shows seems to have

[19:08] and a little dangly earring and this is this is a thing did i see a mullet there too i think yeah

[19:13] he's got that little like tiny little mullet haircut that like seth rogan has and i will not

[19:18] accept the return of the mullet i'm sorry if it makes me sound like an old man he's got a very

[19:23] australian haircut yeah i know i don't i know i'm i'm not you know i'll rage at a cloud privately

[19:28] dan dan if you ever want to be sigma you got to accept it so it's not an attract just the world

[19:32] you live in now okay so we're at serenity park it's a drug rehab institute of some kind it is

[19:38] a nice it's pretty very nice and it's huge they must have co-ed that is the weirdest thing to

[19:44] me like for like this is a apparent like this is both run like a prison and they also like seem

[19:51] to have no problem fraternization or like this budding romance between these uh it felt it

[19:57] felt a little bit like i i i what was it mickey

[20:00] What was the recent Bong Joon-ho movie?

[20:02] Mickey 17.

[20:03] Mickey 17, where it was like, this is basically a police state on a spaceship, but we have

[20:08] rigid rules.

[20:09] But it seems like nobody really follows them, and everybody's just fraternizing all the

[20:12] time.

[20:13] But Eric is being bullied, he doesn't want to talk in group therapy, but Shelly ends

[20:18] up at the same facility.

[20:19] This is going to be a budding romance, but first, we're introduced to our villain at

[20:22] a fancy soiree.

[20:23] He's the Mr. Rogue, just like, very subtle naming, played by one Daniel Huston, and he's

[20:31] a...

[20:32] Nicholas Rogue.

[20:33] And he has...

[20:34] It would be amazing if he's like, yeah, my father, Nicholas Rogue.

[20:38] So if Danny Huston, the son of John Huston, was playing a guy who was the son of a different

[20:43] director, I would love it.

[20:44] Yeah, my name is Richie Hitchcock.

[20:45] Call me Richcock.

[20:46] Actually, don't call me that.

[20:47] Don't call me that.

[20:48] Don't call me that at all.

[20:49] I didn't think that one through.

[20:50] You think I've had this name for a long time, it never really occurred to me.

[20:58] See, he's schmoozing, there's a very low-simmering subplot about him and a young pianist that

[21:08] he has an interest in.

[21:09] She's from Vienna.

[21:10] But it's like, always just in the background.

[21:12] But he gets taken by...

[21:13] Talk about it goes nowhere.

[21:14] Yes, it goes nowhere.

[21:15] That's the first stuff you would cut.

[21:17] There's nothing to do with anything.

[21:20] I think it's supposed to be, he's one of these classic bad guys where he's like, he's incredibly

[21:25] decadent and also refined.

[21:28] We find out later he's been alive for hundreds of years, so he loves to listen to classical

[21:31] piano with his eyes closed, but he's also savage.

[21:35] He's savage and evil.

[21:36] He likes to be the one guy sitting in a large auditorium listening to this girl play.

[21:42] Yeah, listening to a piano player.

[21:44] A piano player's not playing like...

[21:45] That would have gotten me so hard if she had just started playing ragtime.

[21:56] And so a lady bad guy takes him to see Sadie, Shelley's friend, and he's like, I want to

[22:01] find Shelley.

[22:02] And he's like, I made a deal hundreds of years ago, I have to send the souls of the innocents

[22:06] to hell, and that keeps me alive.

[22:08] And he uses his whisper brainwashing power, which I have to admit, when he uses the power,

[22:12] I think it looks really cool, where he's suddenly whispering really fast, and you don't

[22:15] really hear what he's saying, and it takes them over.

[22:18] And I think they pull off that effect really nicely, you know, but it always just leads

[22:23] to somebody killing themselves.

[22:24] That's it, pretty much.

[22:25] Yeah, I think what he's doing is he's leaning in and he's just saying, let the bodies hit

[22:29] the floor.

[22:30] And they're like, oh, no.

[22:31] Well, what I thought he was saying is predicting how much the movie was going to make at the

[22:36] box office.

[22:37] And these are the 40 producers killing themselves.

[22:41] And he's whispering, here's your chance, get out of the movie right now, kill your character,

[22:44] get out of here.

[22:45] Right, we've got 40 producers, and we're going to make $18 million in total.

[22:48] I mean, I'll give this movie this much, you know, it doesn't have the, ironically, because

[22:54] there's so much more opera in this movie, it doesn't have the operatic look of the original,

[23:00] it doesn't have like the audacious, like over the top, like visuals, but it is a stylish

[23:06] looking movie in its own sort of like chilly way.

[23:09] Like I think that one of the better things I can say about it is like the movie generally

[23:13] looks good.

[23:14] I think the movie, so this is that this may be a spoiler for my final judgments.

[23:18] I didn't.

[23:19] This is not my kind of movie.

[23:20] But I feel like this movie delivers a lot of what it's trying to do, whether what it's

[23:23] trying to do is a worthwhile thing to do.

[23:26] But I'm like, yeah, it looks like this is my image in my head of what a modern day crow

[23:30] movie would look like, where it's a lot of a guy in a long trench coat just kind of gloomily

[23:35] walking down alleys and stuff like that.

[23:37] And like I think it does look stylish, you know, it's as there's a dreary.

[23:40] It looks very dreary.

[23:41] It's a dreary sort of lips.

[23:44] It's true.

[23:45] So in the way that Gubrious, I haven't watched like 12 Monkeys in a long time, but I remember

[23:49] seeing the theaters and being like, this movie looks like the look of this movie is so specifically

[23:54] chosen to be uncomfortable and not pleasant.

[23:57] You know, a lot of the time, you know, every every place they go to, I'm like, this place

[24:00] is disgusting.

[24:01] You know, this is kind of like every place they go to.

[24:03] It's like this place is depressed.

[24:05] It's like water is dripping from somewhere everywhere they go.

[24:08] Yes, exactly.

[24:10] So so he talks Sadie into killing herself.

[24:13] Now, we know what the bad guy's power is at rehab.

[24:15] Shelly and Eric meet.

[24:16] They have a lot of awkward talking and flirting.

[24:19] She likes his drawing and writing.

[24:20] He's a very sensitive soul.

[24:22] You know, we never learn anything about his past, except, I guess, that he once didn't

[24:26] save a horse and that sent him on a spiral to rock bottom.

[24:30] And so he has kind of a mom fixation.

[24:33] Oh, that's right.

[24:34] He has a mom fixation.

[24:35] He's he's.

[24:36] But it's a they don't get into it, too, too much.

[24:40] Right.

[24:41] So they make a point of really, you know, like as opposed to the previous film, they

[24:47] they spend some time we get some time with these characters to kind of get a sense of

[24:50] their connection.

[24:51] Dan, do you feel like they had a lot of chemistry?

[24:55] I feel like I in my own letterboxd review, I called these a couple of the dullest dim

[25:00] bulbs you'll meet.

[25:02] They are.

[25:03] They are.

[25:04] The movie is so reliant.

[25:05] This is this is one of the major failures in the movie.

[25:06] This movie is so reliant on their love, seeming like the kind of cosmic love for the ages

[25:12] that will drive someone to damn themselves to get revenge for losing that person or to

[25:15] save them.

[25:16] And they are so they seem to have so little feeling for each other.

[25:21] And all of the cavorting in apartments, rolling around in bedsheets and curtains and like

[25:26] going to raves like does not convince you at any moment that they have any feeling for

[25:30] each other.

[25:31] Look, I'm going to sound like an old man again.

[25:34] I understand.

[25:35] I'm going to sound like an old man again.

[25:40] Where's my dentures?

[25:41] No, I understand that like addiction is a disease.

[25:44] It's something that people like struggle with.

[25:47] Like I and I also don't have anything per se against like, you know, reasonable levels

[25:56] of recreational drug use on like non harmful drugs.

[26:00] But like it bothered me that they had this big like love montage to them, basically like

[26:05] relapsing, like finding her old stash and doing it and then having their mind.

[26:10] This movie I found, this is where I really sound like an old person.

[26:13] I found irresponsible in a couple of ways.

[26:16] And one of it was that another is how I feel like it really romanticizes like depression

[26:21] and being like, quote, unquote, beautifully broken as one of the characters say.

[26:25] And I think, well, that's the thing.

[26:26] I think that's why I'm talking about like it does the thing that it seemed it's trying

[26:29] to do.

[26:30] But whether what it's doing is a good thing is the issue, because like I think, again,

[26:34] I'm like, I feel like that's what you are.

[26:36] You think you're going to get from a crow?

[26:38] And again, I haven't read the original comics and I wonder if they're more nuanced.

[26:41] But like I feel like one of the this is a movie for a depressed teenager who doesn't

[26:46] feel like it makes them special.

[26:48] Does it even mention angsty teenagers at one point?

[26:52] I think so.

[26:53] Like they he wants to be like how angsty teenagers will fall in love with him.

[27:00] Something like that.

[27:01] Something like that.

[27:02] I mean, I feel like that's part.

[27:03] I feel like they're I feel like both our leads are miscast.

[27:05] I feel like Bill Skarsgård can really deliver the goods when he gets to play a crazy clown

[27:09] man.

[27:10] But like he doesn't he doesn't have a lot of emotion outside of that.

[27:15] And I feel like we didn't need our lead based on what happens in this movie.

[27:20] We don't need the lead to be like super muscular because he doesn't do anything particularly

[27:26] like just the fact that he can't die is why he succeeds in this movie.

[27:31] I mean, you need a lot of arm strength to use a samurai sword to do this.

[27:35] I mean, here's your version of the crow.

[27:38] Paul Giamatti is a middle aged kind of older man who finds finds love later in life than

[27:46] he expected to.

[27:47] And that love is with another middle aged person.

[27:51] She's killed in a random attack or something.

[27:53] And he becomes the crow.

[27:55] And he is like finding that there's a rage in him that he didn't realize was in there

[27:59] before.

[28:00] And now he's letting it out.

[28:01] I would love to see that version of the crow.

[28:02] That's not a cool, sexy crow that a teen will want to watch, which is and Giamatti would

[28:08] be up for having a lot of cool prosthetic like, you know, all those all those fake tattoos.

[28:13] You'd see a scene where he gets those.

[28:15] But anyway, then it would be called the Left Crowvers Hold Crowvers, but, you know, I see

[28:24] Albert Brooks doing like the Nesquik.

[28:26] Also good.

[28:27] Yeah.

[28:28] Yeah.

[28:29] Oh, that would be you.

[28:30] And so and our Brooks, you have him doing his character from Drive, basically, but like

[28:33] a little bit funnier.

[28:34] So it's like, yeah, well, I mean, you can't die.

[28:36] It seems like you got something pretty good out of it.

[28:38] So maybe we maybe you don't have to kill me.

[28:40] Maybe that's it.

[28:41] You know.

[28:42] But I would love to see this version of the crow.

[28:43] Sorry, the Hold Crowvers.

[28:44] That's what I'm saying.

[28:45] I can't remember the name.

[28:46] I don't want to hold those crowvers.

[28:47] Dan, I need you to hold these crowvers for me.

[28:50] The officer.

[28:51] I saw these crowvers.

[28:54] So so the bad guys show up the facility.

[28:56] Eric helps Shelly escape.

[28:58] It is incredibly easy to escape this place.

[29:02] And they go to a fancy apartment.

[29:03] She knows they spend a lot of time.

[29:04] They have sex.

[29:05] They do drugs.

[29:06] They play.

[29:07] Tell me about yourself.

[29:08] Games.

[29:09] They try on fancy clothes and she makes him promise to love her no matter what happens

[29:12] or whatever.

[29:14] Anyway.

[29:15] And they're all beautifully broken and whatever.

[29:16] Anyway.

[29:17] What friend is this that has this apartment that she can re reign through some wealthy

[29:22] guys, some, you know, some the director wealthy guys, you see, it makes no sense.

[29:26] It's probably Justin Theroux.

[29:27] They spend some time.

[29:29] They're bumming around with kind of like alternate hippie types.

[29:31] They're reading poetry to each other.

[29:32] They're jumping into lakes.

[29:33] Anyway, they collaborate on an album together.

[29:35] It's just the funniest part to me.

[29:37] They have a lot of cool street wear that they get to try on and walk around in.

[29:42] Yes.

[29:43] And at one point she's like, he's or he's like, we could live this way forever or something

[29:47] like, well, eventually you'll have to get a job to pay for some of this.

[29:50] Oh, damn.

[29:51] I'm going to come home eventually and want his horribly ugly fur coat back.

[29:56] Yeah.

[29:57] So I mean, a lot.

[29:58] They're wearing a lot of clothes that look like.

[30:00] They are like bum chic, but you know that they're like,

[30:03] oh man, that shirt he's wearing is like $700.

[30:06] Yeah, this is a $700 ripped white T-shirt, yeah.

[30:09] So they're making an album together,

[30:11] and she starts playing piano,

[30:14] and he gives her trauma flashbacks,

[30:15] and she says when she was young,

[30:16] she was kind of pushed to be a professional piano player,

[30:19] and she was playing places she shouldn't have,

[30:20] and saw people get hurt, and she hurt people.

[30:22] The opening of that Linkin Park song.

[30:24] Yep, and they talk about,

[30:26] he's like, we can go anywhere together,

[30:28] and she's like, if I jumped off this bridge,

[30:30] would you do it?

[30:30] And he's like, of course I would.

[30:31] Anyway, at a rave, Shelly's friend Dom shows up,

[30:34] and he's like, Sadie's dead, you gotta get out of here.

[30:36] And she takes Eric to a mannequin warehouse

[30:38] that also has an apartment in the back.

[30:41] I mean, that tracks, dude.

[30:42] That's like, that's movie 101.

[30:44] That's a cool apartment.

[30:45] Yep, it's a cool apartment to live in.

[30:46] The bad guy henchmen are very-

[30:47] Maniacs live there.

[30:49] The bad guy henchmen are there,

[30:50] and they suffocate them both,

[30:51] and the suffocation I found very unpleasant.

[30:53] Yeah.

[30:54] This is a very unpleasant scene.

[30:55] Yeah.

[30:56] Not that I want to enjoy suffocation.

[30:57] I thought it was effective.

[30:59] I think if you're going to make this sequence

[31:02] horrible and traumatizing, I think this is not an,

[31:05] just having them get shot would have,

[31:08] depending on how it was done,

[31:09] would be probably kind of boring.

[31:11] But this, I felt, was like, okay, this is horrifying.

[31:13] Yes, and so now we're about, what,

[31:16] a little bit less than halfway through the movie,

[31:18] a third of the way through the movie,

[31:19] and we finally get some crow stuff.

[31:20] So Shelly sinks into an ocean, a metaphysical ocean.

[31:24] Eric, however, he surfaces in a kind of

[31:27] old industrial river site.

[31:29] Yeah.

[31:30] And there's a-

[31:31] I saw Vincent Chiavelli.

[31:31] Mm-hmm.

[31:32] Mm-hmm.

[31:33] Yeah.

[31:34] Yeah, it's basically an abandoned train station.

[31:35] It's an abandoned train yard,

[31:37] and there's overgrown with weeds,

[31:41] and there's crows flying around,

[31:42] and there's a lot of, it's very cloudy,

[31:45] and this is one of those liminal spaces

[31:47] the kids talk about, literally liminal.

[31:50] They sure do.

[31:51] Moby is another adjective.

[31:53] Yeah, kids are always talking about

[31:55] liminal spaces these days.

[31:57] It's just six, seven liminal spaces.

[31:59] That's the kids these days, yeah.

[32:00] Again, it's too gloomy for me to get any joy out of,

[32:03] but I thought this was kind of a cool limbo notion

[32:07] that this is this train yard.

[32:08] Yeah, it's a place you wouldn't want to hang around in,

[32:10] but there's an old man hanging around there.

[32:12] If you were showing me a book of concept art,

[32:15] I'd be like, yeah, this artist is good.

[32:17] This is, but to what end?

[32:20] To what point, you know?

[32:22] It looks like a really good level

[32:23] of the video game I'm playing right now,

[32:25] Hollow Knight Silksong.

[32:27] Oh, okay.

[32:28] Oh, right.

[32:29] I'm playing Power Wash Simulator 2.

[32:31] Mm.

[32:32] That's awesome.

[32:33] You both sound like made-up names to me.

[32:35] They're just stringing together like four words.

[32:38] Okay.

[32:39] Well, sorry, man.

[32:39] Afterwards, you can Google all these things.

[32:42] Very good.

[32:43] Stuart, is that the game where the gamers were mad

[32:45] that the B-Lady was not sexy enough?

[32:48] Probably.

[32:49] Okay.

[32:50] Is there a B-Lady?

[32:52] I mean, you play like a little bug.

[32:54] Yeah, I think it's the Bug Lady.

[32:56] So there's an old man there.

[32:57] He goes, hey, sometimes something so bad happens

[32:59] that someone's soul can't rest.

[33:01] And a crow shows up and shows them how to set things right.

[33:04] And Eric's like, I don't believe that.

[33:05] And he wakes up back at the place where he died.

[33:07] What's this all about?

[33:08] There's this bad cop that shows up to get Shelly's phone.

[33:10] He shoots Eric, but Eric gets right back up and fights him.

[33:13] Eric gets stabbed.

[33:14] That doesn't stop him.

[33:15] It's almost like this guy has become the crow.

[33:18] And do you think that's a...

[33:21] Central, we got a crow there?

[33:23] We got a crow.

[33:24] We got a 514.

[33:25] You ever see that movie, The Crow?

[33:28] We got one.

[33:29] It's like that, but less operatic.

[33:32] Eric kills the bad cop and then his wounds heal

[33:34] really quickly, but it's painful.

[33:35] And he walks around in the rain, followed by a crow.

[33:37] He goes back to the bridge

[33:38] that he used to hang out with at Shelly.

[33:40] He thinks he sees her,

[33:41] but he sees her jump off the bridge.

[33:42] He follows and he ends up back in the afterlife.

[33:44] The old man is like, she went to hell.

[33:46] But if you get rid of her killer,

[33:48] then you can kill all the baddies.

[33:52] You can get Shelly back if your love remains pure.

[33:55] If your love becomes impure or you doubt your love,

[33:58] then it's not going to work.

[33:59] And you can feel pain, but you can't die,

[34:01] which is a very-

[34:02] You can swap places with her, right?

[34:03] Is that-

[34:04] At this point, I don't know if he has to swap yet,

[34:06] but it's like, because I think he has to swap later

[34:09] because he doubts his love for a moment.

[34:11] Mary wants extra juice or something.

[34:14] Yeah, he returns to the living world

[34:15] and he finds this tattoo artist friend of his

[34:18] and gets a gun from him.

[34:19] And he tracks down Shelly's mom

[34:21] and finds all these pictures that were hidden in a wall,

[34:24] I guess, or a closet,

[34:25] along with her employee ID for Shelly at Rogue,

[34:29] a theater and art space owned by Mr. Rogue.

[34:32] Interesting.

[34:33] Look at this detective work.

[34:34] He's really putting the pieces together.

[34:36] And Mr. Rogue's like, well, Suge.

[34:39] Don't touch me.

[34:41] I don't want to absorb your powers and memories.

[34:44] Who knew that being a concert pianist was so hazardous?

[34:48] It's a hard life.

[34:49] It's a hard life.

[34:50] Isn't that a movie, the Johnny Cusack?

[34:52] Yeah.

[34:53] He'd be like, come here, touch me.

[34:54] I want your crow powers.

[34:56] Yeah.

[34:57] Oh, Suge, touch me with them crow powers.

[35:00] So is Rogue the superhero?

[35:01] Is she the daughter of Nicholas Rogue?

[35:03] Is that what it is?

[35:04] Yes.

[35:05] Now I know she's Mystique's daughter.

[35:06] Anyway, so Eric goes there.

[35:09] He finds one of the killers, tries to question him,

[35:11] but he just ends up shooting him.

[35:12] The band, the killers?

[35:13] He finds the whole band of killers.

[35:14] He finds one of the henchmen.

[35:16] And they have, and then he catches a carload

[35:19] of the henchmen and the lady bad guy are escaping.

[35:21] He fights them all in a tunnel.

[35:23] He's in the car and there's lots of gunfight shots and stuff.

[35:25] And he gets knocked out of the car and run over by a truck.

[35:28] But of course he heals painfully afterwards.

[35:29] Thoughts on this action sequence you guys loving it?

[35:31] I think it's pretty good.

[35:32] I love this little sequence.

[35:33] He like, he crashes into the windshield

[35:37] and because he's the crow, he just uses that

[35:39] as an opportunity to like get into the car

[35:41] through the broken window.

[35:43] And then like, he gets pushed out under a truck

[35:46] and gets all mangled.

[35:48] They do a good job of having enough times

[35:51] that bad guys are confused that he's not dying yet,

[35:55] but not doing that too much.

[35:56] Not having to have it so long that you're like,

[35:59] come on guys, like just deal with it.

[36:00] This is the situation.

[36:01] I wish they like raise the blood level a little bit

[36:03] so that when he gets like smushed and stuff,

[36:05] he like gets everybody, I just wish it was gross.

[36:09] I mean the final, I think they're saving that

[36:11] for that big final opera fight where it's very gory.

[36:13] Yeah.

[36:14] I mean he, but he's not, I guess there's that moment

[36:16] where like his guts start to come out of a hole

[36:19] in his stomach.

[36:19] Yeah.

[36:20] That was pretty cool.

[36:21] Yeah, you want to see more him dealing

[36:22] with that kind of damage.

[36:23] Yeah, that like, that he's like the terror tactic

[36:26] of fighting a guy that if you smush him,

[36:27] he's still fighting you.

[36:28] You want it to be like the end.

[36:29] That's sort of a flat stick body horror version.

[36:31] You want it to be more like the end of.

[36:32] I want it to be super crazy.

[36:34] The end of the Running Man, the book.

[36:35] I don't know if the upcoming movie is called.

[36:37] Oh yeah, yeah.

[36:38] Everybody's favorite reference, Kree guts.

[36:40] His guts are hanging out and he's crawling

[36:42] to the cockpit of the plane and his intestines

[36:44] get snagged on one of the seats of the plane

[36:46] and they're being pulled out of his body

[36:47] as he's crawling towards the cockpit.

[36:48] I remember reading that after having seen,

[36:51] you know, the movie and being like, what the fuck?

[36:54] I don't remember this part.

[36:55] They must have cut it.

[36:56] They must have cut this part.

[36:57] They probably filmed it but cut it.

[36:59] Yeah, probably, probably.

[37:01] Yeah, they probably cut it and just put Dynamo

[37:03] in there instead.

[37:04] I will say, like whenever this movie switches

[37:08] into action mode, it's pretty good.

[37:10] But that is like, very rare.

[37:12] Like 8% of the film.

[37:13] It's mostly mope mode, it's mostly moping around.

[37:17] That one is decent.

[37:18] And then when it gets to the opera house,

[37:21] I don't wanna jump ahead too far.

[37:22] But in another film, that would be a great set piece.

[37:25] It's just, there's no personality to it.

[37:28] There's no.

[37:28] And it's also just one, it's just one thing after another.

[37:30] We'll get to that later.

[37:31] It's like, there's no, there's very little build to that.

[37:33] It's just like, here's a kill, here's a kill,

[37:35] here's a kill.

[37:36] So Shelly's mom tells Rogue that Eric wants to kill him

[37:39] to bring Shelly back.

[37:40] And the mom doesn't know how to deal with Rogue.

[37:42] I don't know, and he uses his voice power

[37:43] to make her kill herself too.

[37:45] And Rogue is like, get me Eric.

[37:46] I want this Eric.

[37:48] I keep picturing Rogue from X-Men when you say that.

[37:51] I know.

[37:51] And I, it's a dumb name for them to give him.

[37:54] Like, it's because he's a bad,

[37:55] they might as well call him Batty.

[37:57] I feel like he was originally, they called him Rogue

[38:00] because it's a villainous name.

[38:02] And then Rupert Sanders came in and wrote on a chalkboard,

[38:05] R-O-E-G.

[38:07] And all the film students went, ooh.

[38:09] Ooh, oh, ooh, ah.

[38:11] Mm, ah, ooh.

[38:12] Mm, ah, ooh.

[38:13] Mm, ah, ooh.

[38:14] Mm, ah, ooh.

[38:15] They're all in Skeksis right now.

[38:17] Well, they're all getting blowjobs at the same time.

[38:19] I'm getting, I'm getting, ah.

[38:21] That's how they recorded the Skeksis vocals, Dan.

[38:23] Wow.

[38:24] Wait, how was it that they recorded Skeksis vocals?

[38:26] I missed it.

[38:26] All the vocal performers were receiving blowjobs

[38:29] according to Xan.

[38:30] That's what it was, that's what it was, yeah.

[38:31] Let's check, check the trivia.

[38:32] According to me, yeah, that was what he said.

[38:34] Jim Henson was like, highly inappropriate

[38:37] for a family film.

[38:38] No, no, Jim Henson was like,

[38:40] there's only one way to get the sounds we want.

[38:43] Frank Oz, you need to go into that room

[38:45] and get a blowjob right now.

[38:47] And then his were all like, ah, ah, ah.

[38:50] And they're like, it's not working, it's not working.

[38:52] Dave Goles, get in that room and get a blowjob right now.

[38:54] Ah, ah.

[38:56] Better, better.

[39:00] Frank, Frank, do it again.

[39:01] Try it again.

[39:02] I can't do it anymore, Jim.

[39:03] Try it again, but do it Miss Piggy this time.

[39:04] Ah, ah, ah.

[39:06] No, it's not working, it's not working, right?

[39:07] I feel like I'm back at the Muppet live script reading

[39:10] I was at last night,

[39:11] featuring our friends Griffin and Hodgkin.

[39:13] That feels like the most tailored

[39:15] to Dan McCoy live event anyone could invent

[39:18] is a live script reading featuring popular podcasters.

[39:22] Yeah.

[39:22] And doing the Muppets, also.

[39:23] Janet Vardy was there, too.

[39:26] Mark Gagliardi, a couple of Max Fun people, anyway.

[39:28] Oh, wow.

[39:29] Yeah.

[39:30] You're really traveling in a rarefied air here.

[39:33] Well, I bought a ticket to see it.

[39:35] Oh, okay, nevermind then.

[39:37] You didn't get dragged up on stage

[39:39] like that Bruce Springsteen video?

[39:41] Yeah.

[39:42] You mean the Dancing in the Dark, that video?

[39:46] Courtney Cox?

[39:47] Yeah, Courtney Cox in it?

[39:48] Yeah.

[39:49] Lethargic is another adjective.

[39:51] Should I shop with this bitch?

[39:52] Not Courtney Cox, though.

[39:53] She's a sparkling president.

[39:54] No, no, she's very energetic, yeah.

[39:55] Especially those ads with Lisa Kudrow

[39:58] where they're talking about some.

[40:00] Bull game that you can play. It's crazy. Don't you haven't seen these ads? It's not

[40:06] I have been saddened by like the cavalcade of of celebrities. I've seen hawking mobile games

[40:12] These people have no money. They need the work

[40:15] I feel like it is an indication of how bad the industry is

[40:19] I think it's more an indication of how much money the mobile games have is there's a lot of money

[40:23] They gotta spend that money on something and it's advertising

[40:26] Yeah, so eric stops by their old apartment gets a leather coat mopes around a lot remembers things very melodramatically, yeah

[40:34] Yeah, he gets a lady like it's a leather jacket

[40:38] So come see me in my office it's just in the toilet stall

[40:41] Uh, he finds her phone and he watches a video of rogue talking shelly into stabbing a woman and this

[40:48] He walks through the rain to gothy music. He is really distraught at this. He's disappointed in shelly

[40:53] He thought she was pure he doesn't know if he can go on because she was once brainwashed by an evil wizard

[40:59] Is he doubting his love he is doubting he just

[41:03] Stabbed someone he doesn't know what happened. Come on. Holy shit

[41:08] I mean, I don't know about you guys a video of you stabbing someone and be like, uh, well, he probably got

[41:13] Demon whispered into doing that. That's true. Eric doesn't know about the demon whispering. That's true

[41:18] I will hold up in court it will

[41:20] Though my thought process would have been first one. That's got to be ai second one. That's got to be a demon wizard

[41:26] Third one. Yeah, it's probably third one. That's yeah, he did that one. Yeah. Yeah the one where he's eating the chicken while he's stabbing

[41:32] Yeah, that's the one really really stabbed him. Yeah

[41:34] uh, so the uh

[41:35] Rogues goons show up and they fight eric and they kill his friend and they kill eric because his love has become

[41:41] Impure he's doubted his love and the old man's like you blew it

[41:45] He doesn't do it that way that's the way sylvester stallone says it in copland

[41:48] But oh no, it's just robert's nero on copland says that nero. Yeah

[41:50] Yeah, yeah, the old man says he blew it but uh, eric offers his soul in exchange for hers

[41:54] It'll mean he'll be damned forever. He'll never see her again, but he'll do it

[41:58] He just loves her so goddamn much. He just he'll go to hell for her

[42:01] Yeah, and this is the point in the movie where i'm like, how long did you know this lady?

[42:05] i'm getting that arrested development moment where i'm like

[42:09] Yeah, yeah

[42:11] Yeah, uh that we had a love for the ages ron howard they they didn't you know

[42:16] It's a tornado of crows surrounds him and one slams into him and the old man cuts his hand and then they

[42:23] It could be black

[42:25] What they could be blackbirds. That's true. I mean they look I mean, it's i'm just circumstantial evidence. It's called the crow

[42:34] Yeah, I mean they could be ravens, you know, yeah different movie a magpie perhaps

[42:39] Yeah, uh, and this is where we'll have to go to the bird box

[42:41] Doesn't like weird fluid squirt out of his eyes and turn him into the crow makeup

[42:45] Yes, there's like black blood that comes out of his eyes and he smears

[42:51] I mean black blood of the earth

[42:55] And then he goes and drinks a milkshake, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, uh,

[42:58] Then eric's eyes start bleeding and he transforms into the crow we all know and love now

[43:01] He's got more superpowers. It comes back to life. Heals his eyes. He's not your daddy's crow. He's got all those tattoos

[43:07] That's true

[43:10] Am I wrong, I mean my daddy's crow would be probably cheryl crow to be honest. Oh, yeah

[43:15] She's some good stuff. Yeah, did he I know in the first movie?

[43:18] He had the ability to come back from the dead, but he didn't have actually have like wolverine healing power

[43:25] I don't remember. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I haven't I haven't seen it

[43:30] He's like an unstoppable flip machine, yeah, he had more martial arts powers. Yeah than this guy

[43:35] Yeah, this guy does not have martial arts. I will say i'm a little disappointed for a guy who feels so strongly about

[43:40] Losing somebody that he has known for a brief period of time

[43:44] He doesn't really care that his friend got his brains blown out because of him. He does not really care

[43:50] He has a single mission

[43:52] Uh, maybe maybe that's a sign of him becoming he's becoming less human and more an instrument of vengeance

[43:57] As they say you're doing the screenplay isn't no, I know when you go for revenge dig two graves

[44:02] That's what I say because you want revenge on two people

[44:05] No, yeah

[44:07] The first one's gonna be terrible. It's like your first thing

[44:10] You have to be able to square the corners, right? You need the second grave for what you've learned from the first grave. Exactly

[44:15] Yeah, yeah, you don't embarrass someone that's embarrassing dig two graves. Why practice?

[44:21] Grave twice cut once, you know

[44:25] When you go up for vengeance dig two graves because you're gonna need arm strength and digging a grave will give you those those arm

[44:30] Muscles, right? The first one is just for practice to see it like dimensions

[44:34] Just to know just to know oh, this is what it feels like to do it. Okay. I'm learning a lot now

[44:38] I can use that in the second grave. That's the real user and you know what if you dig that second grave

[44:41] It doesn't work. Go ahead and dig a third grave. It's fine. You know, yeah

[44:45] I mean the more you dig more likelihood you're gonna find some really cool rare coins or other treasures

[44:50] What you don't want to do is you don't want to dig a grave as big as the as the one that brad pitt digs in

[44:55] California, which is roughly the size of a meteor crater. You don't need a grave that big. That's too big a hole to dig

[45:00] Maybe he was trying to bury the gluttony guy from seven

[45:03] No, that's true

[45:05] I mean, it looks like he's planning to murder an elephant when he's digging that grave

[45:08] But i'm impressed that you remember any details from california. I was actually going to say that too

[45:13] Well, you know a similar time period as uh, similar time periods

[45:17] I think maybe that's why it came up in my head similar kind. Oh, you yeah

[45:20] And you've been going through all your david Duchovny films

[45:23] That's right. Yeah, i'm i'm almost up to house of d. Is that the one?

[45:27] Uh, what was the one where that's a funny title

[45:33] There and there's the uh, they're the one recently that's all in like an airport

[45:37] Oh, I don't know that one. Um, does anybody current david Duchovny now, there's a good trivia category name this current david Duchovny film

[45:47] I I can't do it. Nope

[45:49] No, but I know the movie you mean I saw it on one of those

[45:53] Group chat right now. You can't talk about david

[45:57] He's actually writing to the red shoe diaries right now, that's the thing long-time fan, uh first time diarist, yep

[46:04] Uh, sorry speaking of last night

[46:08] somehow, uh

[46:09] Griffin and hodgman are now arguing the merits of the muppet takes my manuscript. I think I think now is the time for you to

[46:16] Wait, no, no, I know i'll put it down

[46:18] Had a platform on which you can make his feelings clear

[46:22] What is it? Is it that like they are separated and then the reunion the time between the separation and the reunion is almost

[46:29] Nominal, is that is that the problem with the script?

[46:32] uh

[46:33] I don't know what the problem with the script is. I mean

[46:36] I think it lies in the third in the third act. I feel like muppets take manhattan like

[46:41] It's not up to the level of the previous two movies the ads the ad stuff with the other frogs is hilarious

[46:47] I love i'm bill. This is gill and jill. That's hilarious

[46:51] That part that portion of the movie made a huge impression on me as a kid and I write about it in my essay in

[46:56] The book never can say goodbye writers talking about new york or whatever. It's called which came out many years ago

[47:01] I want the part two where jason takes manhattan from the muppets

[47:08] I feel like la kaelin could write it. I would love to I would love to that'd be fantastic

[47:12] Oh, they both showed up the same day and they keep bumping into each other jason versus muppets

[47:17] Kermit gets hit by a car thinks he's jason starts killing the other muppets. Yeah, whoever wins. We hope it's the muppets

[47:26] That's the tagline animal could take jason

[47:30] Yeah, definitely definitely, um, so animals are the most powerful, uh muppet in the muppet extended universe

[47:38] Yeah, he's the tom bombadil of the muppets the squirrel girl he's undefeatable or uh, the guy who grows, uh, new zealand that guy

[47:46] Mm-hmm lucy. Oh, yeah. Yeah lucy. He's he's impales him with a fish or something

[47:51] So, uh the so, uh

[47:53] The bat from eric kills what comes back to life kills the bad guys from bad guy phone

[47:57] He learns the other bad guys will be the opera. Of course take some time to finish one of his tattoos

[48:03] And gets his blood makeup together picks up a samurai sword that happens to be there

[48:07] And there's more moody walking the streets of the opera and this is the big

[48:11] this is the uh, is this the moody walking to like a uh,

[48:14] a uh, what gary newman song or something like I mean this this the movie has a couple of like

[48:20] bangers, but I wish they were all like

[48:22] Late 90s new metal songs because I feel like that fits that period you associate. Yeah

[48:27] I want it to all be like but not like the original the crow. I want to be like, yeah

[48:31] I want it to be like evanescence and shit like that. Yeah. Yeah, but that's that's not what they do

[48:35] But it would be it's better than if they did it to randy newman songs, which would have been inappropriate

[48:40] Well unusual you got a friend in crow

[48:44] You have the muppets paul williams without a pole. Oh, wow. I mean, I think paul williams could do it. I think

[48:51] Moving right actually i'd love to see the crow where he's walking down the street and moving right along is playing. That's great

[48:57] So the uh, he goes to the op this is a big violent action set piece where he's just

[49:02] Killing guards left and right as the opera is playing

[49:05] And the and it's probably aren't villains, right? They're probably just hired goons. I mean, they are all hired goons

[49:11] They it's like they're all just private contractors. I mean who knows what bad things they've done

[49:16] He kills them in different ways with it with a samurai sword. He eventually gets to the bad guy

[49:21] He's like a tanto, right? It's not like a full katana. It's kind of short. Yeah, it's a it's a shorter sword

[49:27] It's kind of a medieval type sword, isn't it?

[49:30] It's definitely it's definitely a japanese sword though, right? It's not like a broad sword or something. No, okay splits the guys. Uh, don't say broad

[49:37] Sorry

[49:38] It's not a dame sword. Yeah, I do like when he splits that guy's face. Oh, yeah, that's pretty good

[49:43] That's a nice kind of kind of takashi miike type moment. Yeah. Yeah

[49:46] um, so the uh, the

[49:49] He eventually gets to the bad guy lady and she's like, oh you remind me of rogue

[49:53] You both hate yourself inside or something like that and he kills her he kills her henchman

[49:57] Who's the oldest of the henchmen? It's very funny

[50:00] that is where you're building up to him facing it's almost like

[50:03] the one issue i really have with mandy where after

[50:05] fighting his way through all the bad guys he then gets to the the big bad guy

[50:09] who's just an old man in the shower who's like also cute if you don't kill

[50:13] me but i don't like this is at this i feel like this is a lot of heightening

[50:16] moments you know

[50:18] but i know they're doing a purpose

[50:20] the crow he's he even though he has had a massive

[50:24] bloody fight

[50:25] in the public areas of an opera house no one seems to have noticed he could get

[50:28] away scot-free until he walks on stage with the heads of the last people killed

[50:32] and throws them into the audience which i as an opera lover found to be

[50:37] not necessary

[50:38] you're just here to see the opera you do not need someone to throw a severed

[50:41] head at you

[50:42] being at the opera is not an endorsement of evil. I'm going to the opera, I don't want to see

[50:46] somebody be super dramatic. Imagine the headlines in tomorrow's paper.

[50:51] hold on a second if he came out and he was all covered in blood and he goes the

[50:54] opera is over that's one thing that's literally that's basically the way

[50:57] Pagliacci ends

[50:58] I don't want a severed head thrown at me in any situation especially not

[51:02] where I paid a lot of money for these tickets it must be opening night because they're all in black tie

[51:07] money buys comfort and that's all you care about.

[51:12] I'm here to celebrate the beauty of music the beauty of performance

[51:15] I don't need to there's no crime involved in that. I don't know who sponsored this opera

[51:19] what sort of demon powers they may or may not have. I've seen shows at the

[51:23] Disney Concert Hall I'm sure they've done some terrible stuff.

[51:28] Was it La Boheme? Is that what was playing? It's an opera? I actually didn't know what opera it was that was playing but it could be.

[51:32] Dan do you know what opera it was? It was probably some made-up crow-opera.

[51:37] I only know La Boheme because it's a Frank Oz gag from the Blues Brothers that's how I know that.

[51:44] Maybe it was Salambo the opera from Citizen Kane. No he goes La Boheme.

[51:50] Tosca? I think Tosca is often a New York Times crossword question.

[51:55] Yeah Tosca's a great opera. I mean again guys I'm not this is not a bid I'm putting on.

[51:59] I do love the opera. The Metropolitan Opera in New York is a special place for me.

[52:02] We know you're 1% Kalen today.

[52:06] Elliot how many times have you been at the opera house and seen an undead vengeful spirit behead six people?

[52:12] Good question Scott the answer is zero and I don't want people to get the wrong idea about opera houses.

[52:16] They are not dangerous places you will not be beheaded.

[52:19] And also I will say Stuart the opera 100 years ago opera was the music of the common people.

[52:25] Really more like 130 years ago opera was the music that a working man would go to see at the end of the day.

[52:30] That's what William Shatner was singing about in that song.

[52:33] Exactly. His song Opera Man.

[52:37] Written by William Shatner.

[52:40] Shit my dad says William Shatner.

[52:43] That's what he's best known for.

[52:47] Wait a minute you mean Tech Wars William Shatner?

[52:51] Tech Wars William Shatner.

[52:53] You guessed it.

[52:55] I want to name another more obscure William Shatner thing and I'm having trouble thinking of another one.

[52:58] The Devil's Reigns William Shatner?

[53:00] That Esperanto movie?

[53:02] Incubus. That's what it is. Incubus is William Shatner.

[53:05] He's in the band Incubus with Brandon What's-His-Name?

[53:08] He was in the band Incubus with Brandon What's-His-Name.

[53:11] Those were the two main members of the band. It was Bono, The Edge, William Shatner, Brandon What's-His-Name, Incubus.

[53:17] Anyway I'm just saying, I can't let go.

[53:21] If you want to go see the opera, go see it. A guy will not throw a headset at you, I promise.

[53:25] You can't make that promise.

[53:27] How would you make that promise?

[53:30] In my experience, I think my grandmother would have given up her season tickets to the Met.

[53:37] She would have expected to get heads thrown at her. She had very good seats.

[53:40] The head would have hit her right in the lap. She would have been horrified.

[53:43] The crowd runs off afraid, as they should.

[53:46] He sees Shelly in the audience. It's just a vision he's having.

[53:49] Eric goes to Rogue's fancy country estate.

[53:52] This is when I was wondering, where in the world is this taking place?

[53:55] It's just kind of a generic evil city where there's a country estate.

[53:58] They have a mannequin factory and a swanky apartment.

[54:02] They have a hero-villain talk.

[54:05] Rogue uses his feel-terrible powers on Eric.

[54:08] His love for Shelly breaks through and brings him back.

[54:12] He pulls Rogue into the afterlife, into that train yard, and beats him up.

[54:15] It's not really that impressive to see him beat up Danny Houston.

[54:20] To me, it's like Bill Skarsgård beating up Danny Houston.

[54:23] It's like the end of Eraser where Arnold Schwarzenegger beats up an old James Caan.

[54:28] Or it's like the end of Naked Gun, where they make a joke out of Kyle.

[54:33] That's why Danny Houston was so perfect for that movie.

[54:36] Years ago, when we saw the Green Lantern movie,

[54:40] it was like, okay, now he's up against a nerd in a wheelchair.

[54:43] This is the bad guy he has to defeat.

[54:46] Yeah, with a deformed head.

[54:49] He beats him up.

[54:52] Rogue gets pulled to hell by some kind of snaky skeletons.

[54:55] I like the way those snaky skeletons look.

[54:58] They're called Snakingtons.

[55:01] Shelly floats back up to the surface and she's like,

[55:04] I don't want to leave you, Eric. He goes, no, it's okay, I love you.

[55:07] Thanks to an EMT. That EMT? It's the old man from the afterlife.

[55:10] Hold on a second. But Eric, he's stone dead.

[55:13] Cronos, apparently. That's his name, Cronos.

[55:16] Oh, Cronos, okay. That's something I did not pick up from the movie.

[55:19] What, the father of titans or whatever?

[55:22] Yeah, exactly.

[55:25] Egyptian god of time?

[55:28] He's been punished for devouring his children. That's why he's there.

[55:31] Eric monologues in the train yard about how their love will live on

[55:35] and everything she ever does.

[55:38] And now he's just the crow.

[55:41] I guess he just hangs out in this gross, slimy afterlife now.

[55:44] We don't see him go to hell at the end.

[55:47] I was expecting him to be dragged to hell.

[55:50] But if they're not reunited, doesn't that automatically mean

[55:53] that she's now a crowess in the FKA sequel?

[55:56] I don't think so.

[55:59] She doesn't get him.

[56:02] I think like many people who have lost someone,

[56:05] she just has to keep living and continue on with her life.

[56:08] He gets to be a crow.

[56:11] And the thing is that over time, she'll just start to forget him.

[56:14] Does she get the chance to...

[56:17] No, Stewart. Their love will live forever.

[56:20] In the beginning, you didn't get the feeling that this is a burning passion.

[56:23] A lady on fire style.

[56:26] Amour fou that can never be equaled.

[56:30] It acts real nice in her second life.

[56:33] Does she get to go to heaven or is she still doomed to hell eventually?

[56:36] He's swapped with her.

[56:39] He made a big deal about how he has to go to hell and she's going to be okay.

[56:42] So I guess now she has a second chance, Dan.

[56:45] He gets to decide if she goes to heaven or hell.

[56:48] So she marries another guy, has four kids,

[56:51] and then she's just like,

[56:54] Mommy, tell us the story about the guy who sacrificed himself

[56:58] to save a dying horse.

[57:01] I want the sequel where it takes place many years in the future

[57:04] and he goes back to visit her.

[57:07] She's a middle-aged woman who has a family.

[57:10] That fiery young spark has been tempered somewhat

[57:13] by the things of life.

[57:16] And he's still this crazy, immortal demon hunk.

[57:19] And they both have to deal with what this means.

[57:22] He hasn't changed, but she has.

[57:25] Has she lived a better life in some ways?

[57:28] Is she at a better place than him?

[57:31] Is he disappointed that she's no longer the woman that he once thought she was?

[57:34] And the final line is,

[57:37] Eric, I don't remember.

[57:40] I don't remember you, Eric. Sorry.

[57:43] Or she'll get a bunch of details wrong and he's like,

[57:46] No, he was a demon guy who made you do things.

[57:49] She's washing dishes.

[57:53] Hey, you were telling me about that guy, Eric.

[57:56] Oh yeah, that was a wild time.

[57:59] He was bonkers.

[58:02] When you're young, you get rapped on people.

[58:05] Oh yeah, like that girl you were telling me about that you dated for a little bit?

[58:08] I'm glad I got out of that.

[58:11] Most of the sequel just takes place when she's like,

[58:14] Okay, I should reconnect with him a little bit.

[58:17] And they go out to dinner at an Applebee's or something.

[58:21] And they're realizing that they don't have as much in common as they used to.

[58:24] It's like the end of The Graduate.

[58:27] He's like, Hey, do you still listen to Sisters of Mercy?

[58:30] And she's like, Not that much, to be honest.

[58:33] Okay, let's do final judgments.

[58:36] Whether this is a good bad movie, a bad bad movie,

[58:39] or a movie you kind of liked.

[58:42] I'm going to say that this is a bad bad movie that was not as bad

[58:45] as I expected based on the reaction to it.

[58:48] I think it was, as I said before, in some ways stylishly made.

[58:51] There was some care put into some of it.

[58:54] It's just that all of the characters were a bunch of nothings.

[58:57] And I don't like the message of the movies.

[59:00] And it's kind of boring.

[59:03] So, bad bad.

[59:06] Yeah, that was a little bit like, as long as everybody had fun response.

[59:09] Yeah, I'm going to say...

[59:12] Nobody got hurt as long as it's lying.

[59:16] In many ways, that makes this better than the original The Crow movie.

[59:19] Because nobody got hurt.

[59:22] It was a very low bar to clear in this being a better production than the original The Crow.

[59:25] Yeah, I mean, this is a bad bad movie.

[59:28] I think there are...

[59:31] It has the trappings of a professionally made feature.

[59:34] And I think it probably achieves what it's trying to do.

[59:37] But it's wrong-headed.

[59:40] There's no real place for it.

[59:44] On some level, it feels like a test reel or a demo reel.

[59:47] So the people who made it could make a full-on Marvel movie or something.

[59:50] Trying to show they're proficient enough to make an actual superhero movie.

[59:53] Because they didn't actually want to make something...

[59:56] I don't know.

[1:00:00] It's just, it's just very bland and like, it doesn't,

[1:00:03] nothing, nothing, there's not,

[1:00:05] there's very few memorable elements of it.

[1:00:08] Yeah, it's just kind of like a, like a blah.

[1:00:11] Blah.

[1:00:13] Yeah, yeah, yeah,

[1:00:14] because that was the Dracula review of it.

[1:00:16] The, I have to say that this is a, it's,

[1:00:20] I think it is not a good movie,

[1:00:21] but there were at times it almost became a movie

[1:00:24] I kind of liked.

[1:00:25] If I was able to tap into the kind of mopey teenager

[1:00:28] side of myself, where it's like,

[1:00:30] I could see myself as a depressed mopey teen

[1:00:33] watching this and being able to look past the fact

[1:00:36] that it is very slick, like a little too slick

[1:00:38] and a little too glossy for a movie

[1:00:41] that's trying to feel like it is about like,

[1:00:43] oh, it's tortured, broken, beautiful people,

[1:00:45] a love that lasts forever.

[1:00:47] And the only way to get revenge is to unleash my anger

[1:00:51] and my pain on the, on those who did it.

[1:00:52] And like, I think it is a,

[1:00:54] I think it's a competently made thing, you know,

[1:00:57] in that way.

[1:00:58] Like you guys are saying,

[1:00:59] I agree with all the stuff about it.

[1:00:59] It's like kind of dull

[1:01:01] and the characters are kind of nothing,

[1:01:03] but I think it's, I cannot like it

[1:01:05] because of what you're saying that like,

[1:01:06] the message of the movie is one that I can't stand behind,

[1:01:10] which is that kind of beautification and glorification

[1:01:14] of being unhappy, you know,

[1:01:16] of being depressed or despairing.

[1:01:20] And I think that is a, it's a dangerous kind of message,

[1:01:23] especially at a time when it feels like young people,

[1:01:27] and this is a movie that's most likely,

[1:01:28] you would think to be watched by young people is my guess,

[1:01:31] are when young people-

[1:01:32] Young people and bad movie podcasters.

[1:01:33] Yeah, and young bad movie podcasters,

[1:01:35] that young people are, I think-

[1:01:36] Who have no depression issues, by the way.

[1:01:39] You know, that's the thing,

[1:01:39] I feel like young people now are,

[1:01:40] more than maybe ever before,

[1:01:42] are finding it harder and harder to find meaning in life.

[1:01:44] And so a movie like this,

[1:01:45] that glorifies kind of like tragic trauma and sacrifice,

[1:01:49] I think, is a dangerous type of message.

[1:01:53] I don't think young people,

[1:01:54] at the same time, it's so glossy

[1:01:56] that I feel like,

[1:01:57] I don't know that it's as dangerous as it could be

[1:01:59] because it doesn't hit any real emotion.

[1:02:00] You know, it doesn't actually connect in that way.

[1:02:02] But I like, but every now and then,

[1:02:04] there's a thing that I like,

[1:02:05] like that the whisper effect is a dumb idea,

[1:02:07] but I like the way they pull it off.

[1:02:08] Danny Houston, I think, does exactly what he needs to do.

[1:02:11] The bad guy lady has presence.

[1:02:13] You know, there's elements in it

[1:02:14] that work better than I thought it would.

[1:02:15] They brought presents?

[1:02:16] What?

[1:02:17] Yes, you brought presents.

[1:02:18] Yeah, but they're not great presents.

[1:02:20] It's a lot like, it's a lot like dried fruit

[1:02:21] and things like that.

[1:02:22] But it's the thought that counts, you know.

[1:02:23] Yeah, yeah.

[1:02:24] What about you, Scott?

[1:02:25] Bad, bad.

[1:02:27] And this is coming from a guy who has done 260 episodes

[1:02:31] of a podcast called Overhated.

[1:02:34] I hated this movie.

[1:02:36] And I love your phrase,

[1:02:38] the trappings of a professionally made motion picture.

[1:02:41] I love that.

[1:02:44] Elliot, what you said about how it's like artsy and mopey

[1:02:47] and it's beholden to teen and young angst,

[1:02:52] that all describes the first film.

[1:02:55] This is just regurgitated, recycled misery.

[1:02:59] Well, yeah, I think that's the thing.

[1:03:00] I feel like if I had seen the first movie,

[1:03:03] because I still haven't seen it,

[1:03:04] like maybe I'd be like, I feel like this feels like,

[1:03:06] I mean, it feels a lot of times

[1:03:08] like a very high class perfume commercial

[1:03:11] that stars the crow.

[1:03:12] Like, and I feel like that's, if anything,

[1:03:15] that's the thing that I think blunts

[1:03:16] the edge of danger from it.

[1:03:17] Because it's like, because it feels like a,

[1:03:20] because it doesn't feel real at all.

[1:03:21] You know, there's no, there's no actual stuff in it.

[1:03:23] Even in some of the worst films Hollywood puts out,

[1:03:26] most of the time, the production designer

[1:03:28] and the cinematographer, they earn their check

[1:03:31] and they do here.

[1:03:32] But beyond that, I couldn't wait for it to end.

[1:03:35] I didn't like the, I didn't care about his character,

[1:03:38] alive or dead.

[1:03:39] I just couldn't wait for it to end.

[1:03:40] I hated it.

[1:03:42] I'm sorry.

[1:03:43] I don't want to be the most negative,

[1:03:45] but I just think it's a soulless adaptation

[1:03:50] of a film that was a little shallow to begin with.

[1:03:54] Especially something that like a story

[1:03:56] that was born out of a artist's real trauma.

[1:04:00] It's crazy to see like the Xerox of a Xerox of a Xerox

[1:04:03] that this movie is.

[1:04:04] Good point.

[1:04:05] Well said.

[1:04:10] Jackie Cashion.

[1:04:11] Hi, and welcome to TheMaximumFun.org podcast,

[1:04:15] The Jackie and Lori Show, where we talk

[1:04:17] about standup comedy and how much we love it

[1:04:19] and how much it enrages us.

[1:04:21] We have a lot of experience and a lot of stories

[1:04:23] and a lot of time on our hands.

[1:04:25] So check us out.

[1:04:27] It's one hour a week and we drop it every Wednesday

[1:04:29] on TheMaximumFun.org.

[1:04:32] Most of the plants humans eat are technically grass.

[1:04:35] Most of the asphalt we drive on is almost a liquid.

[1:04:39] The formula of WD-40 is San Diego's greatest secret.

[1:04:44] Zippers were invented by a Swedish immigrant love story.

[1:04:48] On the podcast, Secretly Incredibly Fascinating,

[1:04:51] we explore this type of amazing stuff.

[1:04:54] Stuff about ordinary topics like cabbage

[1:04:57] and batteries and socks.

[1:04:59] Topics you'd never expect to be the title of the podcast,

[1:05:02] Secretly Incredibly Fascinating.

[1:05:04] Find us by searching for the word secretly

[1:05:07] in your podcast app.

[1:05:09] And at MaximumFun.org.

[1:05:14] Hey folks, this is Stuart from The Flop House

[1:05:16] telling you, you know what you probably need?

[1:05:19] A website.

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[1:06:43] And this is Dan over here.

[1:06:45] I also have a sponsor to tell you about,

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[1:06:53] Stuart learning what I already know,

[1:06:55] which is that Squarespace can be

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[1:07:00] Do you feel vindicated, Dan?

[1:07:02] No, I just, you know, I feel a warm sense of connection.

[1:07:06] I saw the look on your face, Dan,

[1:07:07] where I read it as now it's Stuart's turn in the barrel.

[1:07:10] Yeah.

[1:07:11] But speaking of warm, it's getting less warm out.

[1:07:15] You'll need some wardrobe items in your rotation

[1:07:19] that look sharp, feel good, but also feel comfortable

[1:07:23] and you'll actually wear them.

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[1:07:26] And a little bonus, a little tip,

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[1:07:30] Quince pieces make great gifts too.

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[1:09:03] Hey, The Flop House is also brought to you

[1:09:05] by The Flop House.

[1:09:06] The Flop House has a bunch of Flop House things coming up.

[1:09:09] This episode is being released on November 8th.

[1:09:11] So it is just one week, well, really eight days

[1:09:14] until we will be appearing live in Chicago.

[1:09:17] The second city, it's called that

[1:09:21] because it was the second city in the world after Ur.

[1:09:24] And so we'll be in Chicago.

[1:09:27] We're doing two shows in one night.

[1:09:29] The early show is sold out.

[1:09:30] The late show, by this point,

[1:09:32] there may still be some tickets left.

[1:09:33] I'm recording this in the past for the future.

[1:09:36] You're gonna wanna check and see.

[1:09:38] It's the Flop House podcast.

[1:09:39] Go to flophousepodcast.com slash events

[1:09:43] and you'll find all that information.

[1:09:44] We are appearing at Sleeping Village.

[1:09:46] It's gonna be super fun.

[1:09:48] Each, both episodes, we'll be talking about

[1:09:50] Jim Belushi movies, Chicago's Favorite Son,

[1:09:53] but different Jim Belushi movies.

[1:09:55] And if you've been to a Flop House live show,

[1:09:57] you know it's a lot of fun

[1:09:58] and you're gonna have an experience.

[1:10:00] you'll never be able to replicate in a good way.

[1:10:02] And if you can't make it to the early show,

[1:10:05] come to the late show.

[1:10:05] It's gonna be great.

[1:10:06] It'll be two different shows.

[1:10:08] They will not be the same show done twice.

[1:10:10] We wouldn't do that to you.

[1:10:12] Speaking of shows and The Flophouse and different shows,

[1:10:15] let's say you can't make it to Chicago.

[1:10:17] Let's say you're in Chicago and you couldn't get tickets

[1:10:19] for these ones.

[1:10:20] Don't worry.

[1:10:21] As you know, Flop TV is on the air.

[1:10:24] That's right.

[1:10:24] Theflophouse.simpletics.com is where you can go

[1:10:27] to get tickets for Flop TV.

[1:10:28] Season three is going on right now.

[1:10:30] A week ago, as this episode comes out,

[1:10:32] we will have done episode three

[1:10:33] where we were talking about Xanadu

[1:10:35] starring Olivia Fig Newton-John.

[1:10:37] That's not really her name.

[1:10:38] It's not really a Fig Newton-John.

[1:10:39] It's Newton-John.

[1:10:40] You know?

[1:10:41] Put more respect on her name.

[1:10:42] Mad magazine over here.

[1:10:43] Yeah, that was from our jokes and schlokes department

[1:10:48] or something like that.

[1:10:49] Joke and dagger?

[1:10:50] Yeah, joke and dagger.

[1:10:50] That's what it was.

[1:10:52] So the Flop TV season three, it's been a lot of fun.

[1:10:55] We're having our great,

[1:10:57] so Flop TV season three has been a lot of fun.

[1:11:00] We're doing our one hour televised

[1:11:02] on your computer over the internet

[1:11:03] video version of The Flophouse.

[1:11:05] Each episode, you get a presentation.

[1:11:06] You get us talking about a movie.

[1:11:08] You get us answering questions.

[1:11:09] You get video segments.

[1:11:10] It's turning more and more into a real television show,

[1:11:12] which is very scary to me.

[1:11:14] So go to theflophouse.simpletics.com to get your tickets.

[1:11:17] If you've missed the earlier shows

[1:11:19] where you can't make it to the shows when they air live,

[1:11:21] which is the first Saturday of each month

[1:11:23] at 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific.

[1:11:25] If you can't make it that time, don't worry.

[1:11:26] Your ticket gets you access to the recording

[1:11:28] and you can watch those recordings, any of them,

[1:11:30] until the end of February when the show will be finished.

[1:11:33] So that's theflophouse.simpletics.com

[1:11:35] and then join us live first Saturday of the month

[1:11:37] every month through February at 9 p.m. Eastern,

[1:11:41] 6 p.m. Pacific.

[1:11:42] You mentioned that it's becoming more and more

[1:11:43] like a TV show.

[1:11:44] You'll know when it's become a TV show

[1:11:46] when it's covered on Two Boy Talking Tube

[1:11:49] to Two Dudes Tonight.

[1:11:50] That's right.

[1:11:51] That's why you know we have eaten our own tail

[1:11:54] like the Ouroboros itself.

[1:11:55] And then podcasts can stop.

[1:11:57] So that's two great ways to see The Flophouse live,

[1:12:00] either in person in Chicago on November 16th

[1:12:03] or on your computer screen the first Saturday

[1:12:06] of every month or as a recording

[1:12:08] after the first Saturday of every month.

[1:12:11] Go to theflophouse.simpletics.com for Flop TV.

[1:12:14] And I also want to mention before we go,

[1:12:15] I have a thing to promote that's just for me.

[1:12:18] Sorry, boys.

[1:12:19] This is Elliot only.

[1:12:20] Wait a minute.

[1:12:22] As this episode is coming out,

[1:12:23] my book Joke Farming, How to Write Comedy

[1:12:25] and Other Nonsense from University of Chicago Press

[1:12:28] will be on store shelves within days.

[1:12:30] You can order it online.

[1:12:32] And I think you will enjoy it.

[1:12:34] It's a book all about how jokes work,

[1:12:37] how to write them,

[1:12:37] how to develop a reliable writing process.

[1:12:40] It is helpful for the professional writer,

[1:12:42] but also for someone who's just curious

[1:12:44] about how humor works.

[1:12:45] And I think it is a funny book.

[1:12:46] It is written to be funny and to be a fun read.

[1:12:49] My wife has been enjoying reading it

[1:12:50] and she is not interested in being a comedy writer.

[1:12:54] Or in anything that you do.

[1:12:55] Yeah, and she hates most of the work I do.

[1:12:58] So that's Joke Farming by me, Elliot Kalin.

[1:13:01] It's a book.

[1:13:01] You can read it.

[1:13:02] Let's answer some letters from listeners.

[1:13:07] Why not?

[1:13:09] Hey, we're here.

[1:13:10] I'm glad that you've given me consent to some letters.

[1:13:14] You know what, Dan?

[1:13:15] No, let's not.

[1:13:16] Okay, well.

[1:13:17] What would you say if I said that, huh?

[1:13:18] I don't know.

[1:13:19] You have to come up with a segment then.

[1:13:22] Then let's answer the letters from listeners.

[1:13:23] Okay.

[1:13:24] Tell us more about opera.

[1:13:26] This one is.

[1:13:27] I would love to.

[1:13:27] Okay, there have been a few performances

[1:13:29] that I go back to in my mind often.

[1:13:31] Just really wonderful.

[1:13:32] A performance of Eugene Onegin.

[1:13:34] That was, that I just,

[1:13:35] I didn't even want to leave the building when it was over.

[1:13:38] I just wanted to feel the vibrations

[1:13:40] in the building afterwards.

[1:13:43] So the Met will often do a double bill.

[1:13:45] Cavalier Rusticana and Pagliacci.

[1:13:48] Because they're short operas.

[1:13:49] They'll do those together.

[1:13:50] And so I've seen those together a bunch of times.

[1:13:52] In Cavalier Rusticana, they bring a horse on stage,

[1:13:54] which always makes the audience impressed.

[1:13:55] And it's just a classic Met opera thing

[1:13:58] is they'll be like, hey, guess what?

[1:13:59] There's a horse.

[1:13:59] We just bring it on stage.

[1:14:00] We sing around it.

[1:14:01] Take the horse off.

[1:14:02] Everybody loves it.

[1:14:03] Horses are huge.

[1:14:04] Dan, continue.

[1:14:06] So, speaking of Corvids,

[1:14:09] this is a Poe-related letter, this first one.

[1:14:13] Oh, yeah, the man who made Ravens famous.

[1:14:14] King of the segues.

[1:14:15] Yeah.

[1:14:16] Yeah, this is from,

[1:14:17] this letter's from Rob Lasting, the poet.

[1:14:18] And Graham imposed the Raven-Symoné.

[1:14:21] I just finished watching Roger Corman's 1963,

[1:14:25] The Haunted Palace, on Tubi.

[1:14:28] The movie really highlights that it is based

[1:14:29] on Edgar Allan Poe's poem of the same name.

[1:14:32] But as far as I can tell,

[1:14:33] the only two lines from it

[1:14:34] that might loosely have something to do with the movie

[1:14:36] are vast forms that move fantastically

[1:14:39] to a discordant melody.

[1:14:42] And then in the credits,

[1:14:43] also some unnamed story by H.P. Lovecraft

[1:14:46] is mentioned almost as an afterthought.

[1:14:50] The whole movie is soaked in Lovecraft stuff.

[1:14:52] Elder gods, Arkham, weird mutated bodies, et cetera.

[1:14:56] My question is, do any of you guys know

[1:14:59] why movies switched from valuing Poe

[1:15:01] to valuing Lovecraft?

[1:15:03] Also, do you know the earliest depictions

[1:15:06] of Lovecraft-worse themes in movies?

[1:15:08] Thanks for the great pod, Rob Lasting withheld.

[1:15:10] So, Dan, you're talking about The Haunted Palace there?

[1:15:13] That was, yes, that was the movie.

[1:15:14] I believe that is the first movie

[1:15:18] that really depicts Lovecraft stuff.

[1:15:20] I think it's based on the case

[1:15:21] of Charles Dexter Ward, actually.

[1:15:23] So, the credits, I can give you more info

[1:15:25] than the credits do,

[1:15:26] but it's always been like a great movie piece of trivia

[1:15:29] that it says Edgar Allen Poe's,

[1:15:31] but it's actually based on a Lovecraft story.

[1:15:35] I think it's kind of funny that the director

[1:15:37] who's most associated with Lovecraft stuff

[1:15:39] also had a huge affection for Edgar Allen Poe.

[1:15:43] And I'm, of course, talking about

[1:15:44] the late, great Stuart Gordon,

[1:15:47] having done a bunch of stuff.

[1:15:48] And I think one of his last projects

[1:15:49] that unfortunately never got funded

[1:15:51] was a Edgar Allen Poe biopic,

[1:15:53] or like a biopic about Edgar Allen Poe

[1:15:55] starring Jeffrey Combs.

[1:15:57] Well, because Jeffrey Combs,

[1:15:58] he would do that one-man show as Edgar Allen Poe.

[1:16:01] I think, so, the switch from Poe to Lovecraft

[1:16:04] is an interesting one.

[1:16:05] And I have a couple possible explanations for it.

[1:16:09] Let's see what you guys think about these.

[1:16:11] One of them is literally just the changing of generations.

[1:16:14] Poe was around since the mid-19th century,

[1:16:18] and Lovecraft wasn't writing until the early 20th century.

[1:16:21] And so, there's the people who were making movies

[1:16:24] earlier on would not be as aware of Lovecraft's work,

[1:16:27] but they were aware of Poe's work.

[1:16:28] And then later on, you have guys

[1:16:30] who were writing movies in the 60s.

[1:16:31] They know Lovecraft's work because that's the stuff,

[1:16:33] it's been around for longer and they percolated with it.

[1:16:36] But I think there's also a, Poe and Lovecraft,

[1:16:38] they approach similar themes,

[1:16:41] which is kind of like the idea that behind normal life,

[1:16:45] there is this darker world or this darker feeling

[1:16:48] that you can't, once you know it exists,

[1:16:51] you can't ignore it and there's a coldness about it.

[1:16:54] It does not care about you necessarily,

[1:16:56] but now it affects you.

[1:16:58] And Poe's was very much for a 19th century world,

[1:17:01] a pre-industrial world in a lot of ways,

[1:17:03] and Lovecraft's is very much for a modern world.

[1:17:06] And I think that's the, there's a greater mass

[1:17:10] dehumanization in Lovecraft's work than there is in Poe's.

[1:17:13] And I think that's a big,

[1:17:14] I think they speak to different things.

[1:17:15] Yeah, I was gonna say something similar

[1:17:16] that I feel like Poe, there's a gothic quality to his work

[1:17:20] that like, unless you are deliberately doing a throwback,

[1:17:24] might feel old-fashioned to people these days,

[1:17:26] whereas kind of the more upfront sort of unknowability

[1:17:32] of the horror in Lovecraft's might speak

[1:17:34] to modern people more, I don't know.

[1:17:36] And you could also say, Poe doesn't have monsters.

[1:17:38] Poe has strange things and crazy people,

[1:17:40] but he doesn't have monsters,

[1:17:41] and Lovecraft has big monsters.

[1:17:43] He doesn't have, Stranger Things is based on a,

[1:17:45] they say Edgar Allen Poe's Stranger Things,

[1:17:47] but really it's based on H.P. Lovecraft.

[1:17:49] And I think there's a, once you get to a world that is,

[1:17:52] I mean, Poe also like, Roger Corman was especially,

[1:17:55] he loved Edgar Allen Poe,

[1:17:56] and he's making all those Poe movies,

[1:17:57] but I think it was also a way to like class up

[1:17:59] what he was doing, you know?

[1:18:00] If he can say this is an adaptation of Edgar Allen Poe,

[1:18:03] then there's an instantly a literary quality to it,

[1:18:06] which is kind of what they did in the 30s

[1:18:07] with like movies like The Raven or The Black Cat.

[1:18:11] I think one theory I have is that Poe is kind of,

[1:18:17] like you guys said, if you're doing something

[1:18:21] in the 1800s, Poe sticks firmly there.

[1:18:24] Lovecraft seems to be much easier

[1:18:27] to adapt to the modern era.

[1:18:30] Yes, I think that's true.

[1:18:31] And futuristic.

[1:18:34] Yeah, and futuristic.

[1:18:35] And also that like, Poe was respectable

[1:18:38] when people were making movies in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s,

[1:18:42] and Lovecraft was not, and it wasn't until probably,

[1:18:45] I don't even know, maybe like the 90s or later

[1:18:49] that Lovecraft was respectable,

[1:18:51] that Lovecraft was like literature.

[1:18:53] Poe is Argento, and Lovecraft is Fulci.

[1:18:57] Yeah, I guess that's the way to put it, you know?

[1:19:00] But when we say respectable, we also should, of course,

[1:19:04] note that we mean that his literary works

[1:19:06] became respectable.

[1:19:07] Lovecraft's personal views have become less respectable.

[1:19:10] No, no, no, Dan is exclusively defending Lovecraft's

[1:19:14] gross craft.

[1:19:16] But also Edgar Allan Poe was like a not great guy also.

[1:19:19] I just clearly mean that their work has been accepted

[1:19:22] as literature at different times.

[1:19:25] And also that there's a scale difference,

[1:19:27] like Poe is working on the scale of regular people

[1:19:31] for the most part, whereas Lovecraft is working

[1:19:33] on these enormous cosmic scales.

[1:19:35] And so I think that movies, it's hard to make

[1:19:38] like a little movie about a little spookiness

[1:19:41] unless it's like it's a super low-budget movie,

[1:19:43] whereas, but even then, like, you don't see a lot

[1:19:46] of like big-budget movies based on,

[1:19:49] you know, like big studios don't make Lovecraft movies

[1:19:52] that much.

[1:19:53] Yeah, I mean, didn't Del Toro try to do

[1:19:54] Mountains of Madness, and they're like, nah.

[1:19:56] They're like, eh, I don't think so.

[1:19:57] I would somebody do Jelly Penguins, fuck off.

[1:20:00] Oh, I'd love for somebody to do an adaptation of Hopfrog and do it straight

[1:20:04] Like so there's work directly from the story. I mean, there's you get some of that in in the Mask of the Red Death, right?

[1:20:12] And and Fool's Fire. You're right. It's basically Hopfrog. Yeah, that's Hopfrog. Yeah. Yeah, but Fool's Fire

[1:20:16] I mean, it's all these puppets and stuff like it's not it's not oh, I've never seen that. It's a very straight adaptation

[1:20:22] Oh, it's a it's something Julie Taymor did years ago. That's a where it's like

[1:20:26] I think the the main character is a person and the there's like a

[1:20:30] There's like two human actors in it and the rest are all big puppets like the king and everything are all are all puppets

[1:20:35] This is a stage, right?

[1:20:36] No

[1:20:37] it was it was a it was like a TV special and they because I used to show it on PBS and I remember seeing it

[1:20:41] As a kid and it scared the hell out of me. I thought it was so strange. I'll look in I'll dig it up

[1:20:45] I want to see that

[1:20:47] Let's get to the second letter. So that was hopefully that was an interesting answer. It wasn't a funny answer

[1:20:52] I made some fucking jokes, dude

[1:21:00] My fucking performance review day

[1:21:04] Lovecraft would be a good epic rack battle of history. Mm-hmm

[1:21:08] So Dan you and Elliot can do this cool YouTube video where one of you is underground. The other is

[1:21:15] Should be lovecraft

[1:21:18] Now

[1:21:20] But I will say as Dan said like as someone who is a huge fan of lovecraft's work like obviously his personal views are terrible

[1:21:25] It was a huge racist a lot of races have baked into his work in bad ways, you know, so

[1:21:31] So both of these letters it we're taping this

[1:21:34] During October, but this is a was will come out in November, but they they both are sort of more October letters

[1:21:42] This is from hopefully the world is less spooky when this comes out this is from Heather who writes Heather writes, how's your October going?

[1:21:51] As part of the spooky season I was re-watching the Rocky Horror Picture Show and my husband and I were discussing

[1:21:57] Parties and movies if you had to choose any party in a movie to attend

[1:22:01] Which would it be the obvious answer is say it with me Stu Bilbo's 111 birthday party

[1:22:08] But what other party would you know, but he's gonna disappear

[1:22:15] Here at the end certainly not the birthday boy when you said that me and Stuart are gonna say it together

[1:22:19] I thought for sure you were gonna say toga. Oh

[1:22:25] No, that's I feel like I've progressed emotionally past the toga party

[1:22:31] I

[1:22:33] Do not want to be at that party at all

[1:22:36] So my so Dan sends us the questions ahead of time, but he doesn't send us the full letters

[1:22:40] So my answer was going to be the party at the in the Rocky Horror Picture Show

[1:22:43] But I think instead I'm gonna say the New Year's Eve party in the thin man

[1:22:47] when it's all of it's all of the high society types and Nick Charles's like

[1:22:51] Crime buddies and they're all and everyone's getting drunk and like being silly and it just seems like a really fun party, you know

[1:22:57] yeah, I mean I

[1:23:00] I'm having trouble thinking of parties, but I saw I'm gonna I'm gonna sidestep this question with a different answer, which is

[1:23:08] Concerts, I wish I could be at and that of course would be the concert from the end of Bill and Ted's bogus journey

[1:23:14] When the robots come and punch off other robots heads if you saw that in the concert, you'd lose your shit

[1:23:19] I would shit my pants

[1:23:20] Yeah, and I mentioned how much scary would be if you were at an opera and actual human sever heads were thrown at you

[1:23:25] Yeah, that would be incredible. If only I could attend such an opera

[1:23:29] I think there's a whole genre of

[1:23:33] like teen parties and teen comedies that are like so much more impressive than any

[1:23:39] Party that I ever experienced when I was young any teen party in a movie where there's a stage and someone is performing using an actual

[1:23:46] microphone

[1:23:47] Party where they play Scotty doesn't know the song of this. Let me be clear also in this scenario. I'm also a teen

[1:23:59] The one day

[1:24:03] Similarly if I'm not me, but I'm a gremlin I want to be the party the gremlins are throwing at the bar and gremlins

[1:24:08] That's a great time

[1:24:12] Yeah, but if I'm not a gremlin I want to be doing 30 yet where I could just go watch Snow White

[1:24:16] They're having a great time to gremlins. Have a great time

[1:24:19] They do have a great time. Yeah, that's right. Hey, they're the real heroes that movie because they enjoy themselves

[1:24:26] Let's

[1:24:27] Don't like anything as much as gremlins like breaking shit

[1:24:32] My answer is simple. I want to go to this sleazy ass bachelor party from bachelor party just so I could meet Tom

[1:24:40] Man I believe I mean, this is a mainstream comedy that has like

[1:24:45] Mule sex jokes in 1984. Yeah. Mm-hmm. No, it's a very well. Yeah only in 1984

[1:24:52] I mean

[1:24:55] Well, that's what Orwell said what he said if you want to see the future imagine a boot stomping on a donkey sex joke for

[1:25:01] All for all eternity. Yeah, yeah

[1:25:03] the

[1:25:05] Watching that. I mean, I haven't seen that movie in such a long time

[1:25:08] But I have to imagine watching that movie is like seeing your actual dad's bachelor party stuff

[1:25:12] And you'll be like, oh dad like what are you doing dad?

[1:25:16] Such an amiable movie, but so many sleazy things happen. Why do they order hot dogs at the mail all-male review?

[1:25:29] Let us move on to

[1:25:31] Recommendations movies that are probably a better use of your time than the crow 20

[1:25:37] I'm gonna recommend a movie as I mentioned though. This is a in November. We're recording in October

[1:25:43] I saw this at a friend's

[1:25:46] Halloween

[1:25:47] horror movie marathon

[1:25:51] Thank you

[1:25:53] This has been on my watch list for a really long time and I keep mean to watch it

[1:25:57] You're building up suspense the film that Stewart wants to watch and I have seen and recommend is next of kin from

[1:26:04] 1982 it is an Australian horror movie

[1:26:07] it is set in a

[1:26:10] in old folks home

[1:26:12] In a remote area of Australia that there are a series of mysterious deaths, it's kind of like

[1:26:20] An Australian jello in a weird way it

[1:26:23] starts out pretty slowly, but as it goes on it it cooks and

[1:26:29] rises to a truly over-the-top great ending so I recommend next of kin how

[1:26:36] Man, that's impressive. All I remember about that is the bathtub scene. Yeah, it was um

[1:26:42] It was um, I think criterion or something as part of their like some weirdo collection

[1:26:48] Lazy next of kin right? Yeah, not the Patrick Swayze one. Did you did you you said you saw at a party?

[1:26:53] I was just wondering how I could stream this sucker

[1:26:55] Well, I because I saw at a party. I'm not sure. I think it was on real quick

[1:27:00] What's the person who threw the party? I think they just had a file

[1:27:04] I think it wasn't shutter for a while, but maybe not anymore. I don't know

[1:27:08] I'm gonna recommend a movie

[1:27:09] I saw a couple weeks ago that I've been sitting with and I really liked and that is the newest Luca Guadagnino movie

[1:27:17] after the hunt

[1:27:18] This is a movie that stars Julia Roberts Andrew Garfield. I oh

[1:27:22] And a beer II did I say it right? It was a near okay. It doesn't Michael Stuhlbarg

[1:27:28] Chloe Savini

[1:27:30] This is a movie

[1:27:32] it's hard to explain exactly what it's about, but it is about a

[1:27:36] About allegations of

[1:27:39] sexual assault or sexual look something like that in

[1:27:43] Academia and the complications that are caused by everybody's various

[1:27:50] Like looking after their own interests and they're everybody's

[1:27:53] As as the viewer does not get to actually see any of what happens. It's all based on everyone's accounts

[1:28:00] it's a complicated movie and I think it's the kind of movie that intentionally is designed to

[1:28:05] Force you to question your own biases

[1:28:08] It is certainly not a movie for everyone and it deals with some topics that not everybody's going to like

[1:28:15] But it is a Luca Guadagnino movie. So it's beautifully made and I think it's incredibly well acted

[1:28:20] Andrew Garfield in particular is incredible

[1:28:24] and I think it's yeah, I think it's a really great movie and I think it's going to

[1:28:30] Like

[1:28:31] You know again, I think it's not a movie for everyone, but I think there's a lot of really good stuff in there

[1:28:36] So check it out if that sounds interesting to you

[1:28:40] So if somebody referred to cancel culture the movie

[1:28:43] that's I mean that is certainly the

[1:28:46] a relatively low media literacy take on

[1:28:51] That's what people said about tar too, right? Well, that's the thing I feel like it's it

[1:28:56] It's I think it is suffering from a similar

[1:29:00] Some of the the same responses that some folks had to tar. Ah, well, I want to talk about a movie that is equally complicated

[1:29:08] equally complex

[1:29:09] and that is

[1:29:11] 20,000 leagues under the sea from 1954 which my younger son is in a big Jules Verne phase right now

[1:29:17] And so we were what and I this is one that I had not seen in so many years

[1:29:21] I didn't really remember very well and

[1:29:23] We started watching it and he was just enthralled by it and I was like

[1:29:26] This is a much better movie than I remember it being like it moves real

[1:29:30] Well, the performers are in it are a great Kirk Douglas is having seems to be having so much fun playing this kind of like

[1:29:36] his old-fashioned type of character

[1:29:38] Which is kind of like a brash kind of like guy who doesn't think through things as opposed to the Spartacus type of you know

[1:29:43] Guy who is a is a noble hero type thing

[1:29:46] There's one scene involving

[1:29:48] Natives on an island that are probably cannibals that I that is it that even though my son loved it

[1:29:53] I was like this is not this is aged slightly less

[1:29:55] Well, but the effects in it look great still all the design stuff looks really great

[1:30:00] stuff it's still really cool and it's just a super fun movie it was just it's just like a

[1:30:04] like a fun old-fashioned adventure movie and it feels like it is not um it's not afraid to be like

[1:30:12] fun but it's also not stupid you know so i'd recommend it it's the original twenty thousand

[1:30:17] leads under the sea by original i mean i think the the 50s one i mean obviously the book is

[1:30:22] the original i uh i remember as a kid just being blown away by the sets like the sets are so cool

[1:30:27] scale of it is wild especially if you're a kid i saw it when i was like 10 and i loved it i haven't

[1:30:33] seen it since but it's it's a great adventure movie the the the nautilus effects and everything

[1:30:37] like that they all still work great like it it really looks cool so i would like to recommend

[1:30:43] an australian art film called primitive war and it is about a platoon of vietnam soldiers who are

[1:30:53] on a very dangerous mission and they come across an entire area populated by dinosaurs

[1:31:00] and it is fun it is like it feels like an 80s action movie combined with like a spielberg

[1:31:09] aspirant not spielberg but somebody who is aping spielberg dare i even say joe dante it is fun and

[1:31:18] got jeremy piven which i don't love but other than that it is and it's a bit over long it's

[1:31:24] over two hours but it's on vod now it's called primitive war it is let's put it this way it's

[1:31:31] better than the last five jurassic sequels no bullshit well that's been it's also got the

[1:31:41] brother from true blood with the really crazy abs ryan quanton yeah oh steward this is so up

[1:31:47] your alley anybody would like it but i was pleasantly surprised i thought it'd be like

[1:31:52] you know a bunch of dead air and two good action scenes nope it's fun though throughout it is a

[1:31:57] good b movie that has been uh this has been the first uh of our episodes in movember as i would

[1:32:05] like to remind uh listeners that uh we are doing four full episodes in this uh in this month so

[1:32:13] you're welcome those of you who you know aren't as into the minis as you are the uh the main

[1:32:21] episodes where we talk about a bad movie uh you hit four you're not listening to that two boy

[1:32:26] two boy two thank you if you're not listening to those episodes come on you're missing some gold

[1:32:32] uh-huh yeah but we thought why not give why don't why don't we give you mo flop house in the form of

[1:32:37] four full episodes that's right four great guests i'm so excited for the rest of movember i'm so

[1:32:44] excited to see if it breaks the flop house if we can't handle it well we're just the crucible in

[1:32:50] which we form even stronger bombs we did pick about that uh along with this of course we of

[1:32:58] course have flop tv but we also have a live show that we're flying to in chicago so it's a lot

[1:33:03] hold on we might be broken we might get broken but uh i'm gonna have to quit my other jobs and

[1:33:08] dedicate myself wholly to the flop house speaking of great guests we'd like to beautifully broken

[1:33:13] beautifully broken thank you scott for being here scott before we fully sign off are there

[1:33:19] things you would like to plug or point people to oh well uh anybody who's listened to my podcast

[1:33:25] would know that these three gentlemen separately have all guessed it at one time or another

[1:33:29] and i hope to have elliot back on again soon uh dan and i just recently did an episode on 1981's

[1:33:35] neighbors which is a fascinating weird comedy uh stewart what was your last episode on overhated

[1:33:42] we did ice pirates the ice pirates yes yes beautiful and uh a couple years ago elliot you did

[1:33:49] you're i don't remember off the top of my head in a while but we're gonna have him back soon

[1:33:56] and yes i would love to be back soon yeah the um it's just basically we did masters of the

[1:34:00] universe masters of the universe 1987 perfect yes and it's basically i'm a huge fan of the

[1:34:07] flop house and any kind of uh mystery science theater anytime you're knocking a bad or

[1:34:14] questionable movie i'm a huge fan but years ago i thought why not try to do the opposite

[1:34:18] why not try to take your ishtars your water worlds your cat women and talk about why they're

[1:34:25] so disgustingly hated was there some historical reference is there some kind of reason and the

[1:34:32] guest will always like the movie and so i do like the i do like the twist where it is like

[1:34:38] a uh in a way almost like defending a movie that you remember kind of liking or like at least

[1:34:44] trying to take a different perspective on it yeah yep you can find it at patreon.com

[1:34:49] slash scott e weinberg to subscribe and if you go to your normal podcatcher you will find some

[1:34:54] free episodes but it's mostly a patreon program and i am uh extremely grateful to all the patrons

[1:35:00] and the guests like these three here so thank you uh well we're also thanks so much for joining us

[1:35:06] today yeah oh it was a wall you know i love doing this show i love it and in addition to thanking

[1:35:11] scott we would also like to thank uh alex smith our producer he goes by the name howl dotty uh you

[1:35:18] can find his music at band camp you can find him on twitch doing twitch twitch streams you can look

[1:35:23] up his podcast uh i'd like to thank our network maximum fun maximum fun.org is where you find all

[1:35:31] the great max fun shows and uh you can become a member who supports us and get access to bonus

[1:35:36] content uh but for this episode of the flop house i have been dan mccoy i am still stewart wellington

[1:35:44] i am elliott caylan the robot i remain scott e weinberg also a robot

[1:35:50] also a robot goodbye from the robot family no they're all becoming robots now

[1:36:04] i'm trying to get us both better in the you were both in the screen i i know but

[1:36:09] more cut off somehow i think we're not going to use any of this video are we

[1:36:12] because i hate people we're gonna use a little clip probably uh but uh

[1:36:19] i don't know not the whole thing not the whole thing okay we have to we use a little clip for

[1:36:24] promos is that okay scott if we use uh a few short clips for social media promotion

[1:36:31] yeah none of them will be longer than 17 minutes okay no maximum fun a worker-owned network

[1:36:39] of artists-owned shows supported directly by you

Ep.#464 - The Crow (2024), with Scott Weinberg

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