Ep.# 386 - The Santa Clause 3: The Escape Clause, with Alonso Duralde

Dan McCoy

[0:00] On this episode, we discuss the Santa Claus 3, the escape clause.

Stuart Wellington

[0:05] Okay, real quick, can I just enact the escape clause right now and not have to do this episode?

Dan McCoy

[0:10] No, you're cursed.

[0:11] Oh.

[0:30] Hey, everyone, and welcome to The Flophouse.

[0:36] I'm Dan McCoy.

[0:37] I'm Stuart Wellington.

Elliott Kalan

[0:38] I'm Elliot Kalin.

[0:40] And before we get into our normal tomfoolery and Jack Cornery and sitting in a cornery and putting our thummery into Christmas pies and pulling out a plumbery, I wanted to introduce our very special guest today.

[0:52] That's right.

[0:53] It's that time of the year, the holiday season.

[0:55] And so we couldn't do an episode without our favorite, Holidays, although we should have him on for non-holiday movies also guest.

[1:02] He's the film reviews editor for The Wrap.

[1:04] He's co-host of a vast universe of podcasts.

[1:06] And he's the author of the book Have Yourself a Movie Little Christmas and co-author of I'll Be Home for Christmas Movies.

[1:13] You already knew who it was before I started the introduction.

[1:15] Alonzo Doralde, our favorite.

[1:17] Thank you so much for joining us, Alonzo.

Alonso Duralde

[1:18] Happy holidays, everybody.

[1:21] My spoke in the wheel has come back.

[1:23] I'm very excited.

Elliott Kalan

[1:25] Yep.

[1:26] Once a year, you have to come and help us to guide our way through this strange time we call Christmas time or Yuletide or Xmas.

[1:37] I know.

[1:37] The Yuletide is rising.

[1:39] Or if you look at Dan's search history, triple Xmas.

[1:43] I'm here to show you the true meaning of Christmas flops.

[1:49] Yeah.

[1:49] So on this podcast, Dan, what do we normally do?

Dan McCoy

[1:53] Well, we watch a bad movie and then we talk about it.

[1:56] That's the simplest way.

[1:57] And perhaps the simple old ways are best.

[1:59] It's worked all this time to say it that way.

[2:01] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[2:03] But Dan wants to amend it.

Dan McCoy

[2:05] No, no.

[2:05] There are a few things I want to say up top.

[2:07] If you're at home, you know, throwing your phone into the local pond or water treatment, like off ramp.

[2:16] I don't know.

[2:17] Sure.

[2:17] What am I looking for?

[2:18] Yep.

Elliott Kalan

[2:18] The local pond off ramp so that the frogs know how to get in and out of the pond.

[2:23] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[2:23] Those, yeah.

[2:25] If you're angry, I was about to say that there's no Cagemas content here.

[2:30] I just want to say a quick word about Cagemas.

[2:33] I'm not saying Cagemas is dead, people.

[2:36] But we've seen this last year.

[2:39] There was a book, a retrospective book, The Age of Cage by Keith Phipps, who we really should ask to be on the show to talk about at some point.

[2:47] Yeah, that's true.

[2:47] Yeah.

[2:48] There was a movie that was very meta about Cage's career.

Stuart Wellington

[2:53] Uh-huh, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[2:54] And Mr. Nicholas Cage seems to have paid off all of his castle debts and is back to making movies that he's chosen perhaps more wisely.

[3:05] All these things together.

Stuart Wellington

[3:07] There's a war on Cagemas.

[3:09] There's a war on Cagemas, led by Nicholas Cage himself.

[3:13] I'm glad we're right up top.

[3:15] We're alienating all the new listeners who are like, I love the Santa Claus 3.

[3:18] I want to hear these dudes talk about it.

Dan McCoy

[3:20] No, I'm just also, you know what?

[3:22] I mean, after all these years, Nicholas Cage, I've been uncomfortable with the memification of a man who I think is a good actor and our own part in it.

[3:31] I'm not saying that like in the future, if we don't have a good Cage movie, we're not going to bite right into that apple.

[3:36] But perhaps not every year going forth.

Elliott Kalan

[3:40] We're not going to force it.

Dan McCoy

[3:42] We don't have the material.

Elliott Kalan

[3:44] Well, it reminds me of when I worked at The Daily Show and people would be like, oh, this Bush, because it was back when Bush was president.

Stuart Wellington

[3:51] This Bush.

[3:52] Yeah, the worst president we've ever had, right?

Elliott Kalan

[3:55] I mean, the fact that two of the worst presidents in American history happened this in like the past 20 years in this century kind of sucks.

[4:01] But one almost after another.

[4:03] But that people would be like, you don't like him as president, but you must love that he's doing the job because he gives you so much material.

[4:10] And be like, no, I don't.

[4:11] I would rather the show get canceled than the country be doing well.

[4:14] And I feel that way about Nicholas Cage.

[4:16] Like, I love him as an actor.

[4:18] I just rewatched Vampire's Kiss recently, which people are like, look at this crazy performance.

[4:22] But I love that performance.

[4:23] Yeah, it's great.

[4:23] And I think a good year.

[4:26] This was a good year for Nicholas Cage.

[4:27] And I would rather he have a good year and be respected as the actor he is than he be forced to make just crap after crap so that we have something to talk about.

[4:35] And you know what?

[4:36] The other thing is.

[4:37] Ghost demands more.

Stuart Wellington

[4:38] I was very excited to talk about Santa Claus 3 with our pal Alonzo Neraldi more than I was to try and watch the Nicholas Cage movie right now.

[4:47] So let's get into that piece of shit we just watched.

[4:50] Yeah, yeah.

[4:51] So real quick, we're talking about the Santa Claus 3, the Escape Clause, which is the third in a series, a series of movies I've seen none of.

[4:59] Really?

[4:59] I've seen none of.

[5:00] But Dan here.

Elliott Kalan

[5:01] Really, you said, as if it would make sense for Stuart to track down each of these family movies starring Tim Allen.

Dan McCoy

[5:07] I feel like by some sort of cultural osmosis, people in general have seen the first Santa Claus movie.

Elliott Kalan

[5:15] I mean, I saw the first Santa Claus when I was a kid.

[5:16] Which was a big hit.

[5:17] Yeah, I was 12, I think, when it came out.

[5:19] And I saw that in the theaters.

[5:21] But Santa Claus 2, I didn't see.

Stuart Wellington

[5:22] See, at that point, I was like, what, 14?

[5:24] So I was already watching hardcore pornography.

[5:26] Exactly.

Elliott Kalan

[5:27] But if Stuart had said, well, I've never seen Galaxy Quest, I would say, really?

[5:32] That's the Tim Allen family movie.

[5:33] That would have been wild, yeah.

[5:33] I would be surprised for Stuart not to have seen.

[5:36] But so, Dan, you actually, would you like to tell us, Stuart, sorry to take your thunder.

[5:40] Dan, would you like to tell us about the research project that you put together before watching this and then fill us in on the previous history of the films?

Dan McCoy

[5:46] Well, last night, Audrey was like, so we're going to watch the Santa Claus before watching the Santa Claus 3, right?

[5:54] And I'm like, are we?

[5:55] And she said, you know.

[5:57] She goes, happy wife, happy life, Dan.

[5:59] So, yeah, you're watching the Santa Claus.

[6:01] And points to the sign they have on their wall.

[6:03] I'm going to say that myself, but I was like, sure, because it was a favorite from her childhood.

[6:09] And I watched it in theater, too, when it first came out.

[6:12] And that was the last time I had seen or thought about the Santa Claus.

[6:16] But once we were into the Santa Claus, I was like, I kind of want to watch the Santa Claus 2 as well.

[6:24] And so it turned into a three-movie marathon last night just because I was curious about how they could possibly keep pushing this premise.

[6:32] That's right, listeners.

Elliott Kalan

[6:35] Last night, Dan had every man's dream a threesome of Santa Claus movies.

Dan McCoy

[6:40] All three clauses.

Stuart Wellington

[6:41] Now, I haven't seen it, but I can assume that the first one is the Santa Claus, Tim Allen becomes Santa Claus.

[6:47] Okay, yes.

[6:48] And the second one is the Santa Claus 2, Santa Horty, and they need to find him a wife.

Dan McCoy

[6:53] That is essentially it.

[6:55] I want to get into it just with a little more depth.

[6:59] I promise I won't take up too much time before we get into the movie.

[7:02] Please don't.

[7:04] Santa Claus 1, very much right in the middle of those 90s family films, which are much more about a depressed divorced dad than you would expect.

[7:16] And I'm like, why was this the family film thing?

[7:19] Like, we have to show.

[7:19] Tim Allen, at the beginning of the Santa Claus, is a genuine asshole.

[7:25] Like, not like a comedy asshole, just like this asshole.

[7:28] Weird, that must have been a real stretch for actor Tim Allen to do.

[7:32] Not a very nice man in real life.

[7:34] But, like, he, you know, I mean, this is also of the time, like, therapy was mistrusted even in the mid-90s.

[7:41] As recently as the mid-90s, there are a lot of jokes about how Judge Reinhold's stepfather character is a therapist and how that's bad somehow, I guess, because he cares about emotions and is nice, unlike Tim Allen.

[7:55] His Cosby sweaters.

Stuart Wellington

[7:56] Yeah.

[7:57] And every time he's on screen, they play, like, yoga music.

[8:00] Mm-hmm.

[8:01] Mm-hmm.

Dan McCoy

[8:02] Well, I mean, in this one, he takes up yoga, but yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[8:05] Well, it's like how in 80s movies, the idea of sushi was automatically a joke.

[8:09] It's bonkers.

[8:10] Yes.

[8:11] Like, only a crazy, weird, rich person in a city would think to eat sushi, and now it's something that is all over the place.

[8:16] Yes.

[8:17] Or, or.

[8:17] I mean, literally, I need to clean it up.

[8:19] It's all over my house.

[8:20] It's just a mess.

Alonso Duralde

[8:21] Cell phones, even.

[8:22] Like, the early big brick cell phones.

[8:24] Yeah.

[8:24] If you had one in a movie, you were an irredeemable douchebag.

[8:27] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[8:28] Yeah.

[8:28] So, that's basically.

[8:29] Unlike now, where we're all super cool.

[8:31] Woo!

Elliott Kalan

[8:32] That's basically the Santa Claus.

[8:34] Where a rich guy who pours his every thought into a cell phone to share it with the world is just, is a philosopher king of some kind.

[8:42] Yeah.

[8:42] There's basically.

Dan McCoy

[8:43] That's basically the Santa Claus one.

[8:46] The arc is him becoming slightly less of an asshole through becoming Santa Claus.

Elliott Kalan

[8:51] Through killing Santa Claus and then taking on, and then taking on his role like Craven the Hunter.

[8:57] Yeah.

[8:58] Burying Spider-Man alive and then putting his costume on to prove he's better than the spider.

[9:02] Yeah.

[9:03] A lesson we can all apply to our lives.

[9:06] Tim Allen, Tim, the only way he can, he can move forward emotionally is to take Santa's place, bones and all, and experience that high.

[9:14] Yeah.

[9:14] Oh, man.

[9:15] The Saint Nick's skin suit.

Dan McCoy

[9:16] So, that's that.

[9:18] Santa Claus two is, of course, as you say, they discover a previously unknown clause that he has to have a wife.

Elliott Kalan

[9:27] Now, where is this clause coming from?

Stuart Wellington

[9:28] Because there's also the escape clause.

[9:30] Who made these laws?

[9:31] I think it's that thing where if you're going to have a NBC late night show, you have to get married.

[9:35] Isn't that why Jimmy Fallon got married?

[9:37] Did he?

[9:38] It seemed like he came out of nowhere.

Elliott Kalan

[9:41] I mean, I thought he was married before he had that show.

Dan McCoy

[9:43] Maybe I'm wrong.

[9:44] Anyway, Christmas magic is the answer to anything that confuses you.

[9:48] Christmas lawyers, apparently.

[9:51] And so, yeah, Spencer Breslin, kid Spencer Breslin.

[9:55] We will see less young kid Spencer Breslin in the movie we're talking about today past his cell by date, I would say.

[10:03] Unfortunately, sorry, Mr. Breslin.

[10:05] Wow.

[10:06] There are people who are child actors who should not have been actors when they were not young.

[10:12] Wow.

Elliott Kalan

[10:12] Well, I guess someone's not watching a Christmas story Christmas.

[10:16] Anyway.

Dan McCoy

[10:18] He discovers this clause and for some reason he like tells numbers.

[10:22] That's how I think of that guy, whatever his actor is.

[10:25] David Krumholtz.

[10:26] Yes, his most famous role.

[10:28] Num three hours.

[10:29] As numbers.

[10:30] The math detective.

[10:34] Above his objection, Spencer Breslin's like, the elves are going to get nervous with Santa out of town, so we have to use this toy cloning machine I've made to create a toy robot version of Santa.

[10:46] So, of course, there's the logical Mrs. Claus plot.

[10:50] And then we keep cutting back to the fun stuff at the North Pole where Santa Claus, the robot, goes crazy, thinks all of the children are too mean, like that we're too lenient on kids.

[11:02] Love it.

[11:02] Decides that he's going to give them all coal and creates an army of large ten soldiers to enforce his will.

[11:08] Perfect.

Stuart Wellington

[11:09] And does he do like a cool dance like Megan?

Dan McCoy

[11:11] Yeah.

[11:12] And at the end of it, yes.

[11:15] At the end of it, Tim Allen convinces Elizabeth Mitchell the…

[11:21] Juliet from Lost?

[11:22] Yes, Juliet from Lost.

[11:23] But the principal at his kid's school, he has learned that his kid was naughty, which is part of the reason why he's home as well.

[11:31] The principal at his kid's school, he convinces her to marry him after like, I think, one date on the basis of…

[11:39] He says, you've known Santa all your life.

[11:41] And I'm like, that was a different Santa.

[11:44] First off, it's creepy.

[11:45] Secondly, it's factually incorrect because that Santa was a different guy that you killed.

[11:50] But anyway…

[11:51] But maybe there's some kind of like…

Stuart Wellington

[11:52] There's like some kind of shared memories, identity type thing, right?

[11:57] That's possible.

[11:58] I think that there is some sort of…

Dan McCoy

[12:01] Yes, there's a cultural memory that gets passed down, a genetic Santa memory that…

Elliott Kalan

[12:06] Yeah, Jung talks about that.

[12:08] The collective Santa conscious.

[12:10] Yeah.

[12:11] So Santa's basically proposing to her the same way that like Steven Tyler would hit on a much too young woman.

[12:17] It's like, you've been hearing me all my life.

[12:18] You know me.

Dan McCoy

[12:20] That's gross.

[12:22] Basically.

[12:23] So that's enough of that.

[12:24] I'll let Stuart who's…

[12:25] Love in an elevator?

[12:26] That's about us.

[12:27] She's 10 minutes, right?

[12:30] 10 minutes, baby.

Stuart Wellington

[12:30] So movie opens with a Disney logo and a snow globe.

[12:35] Is that…

[12:35] Do they do that with all those Santa Claus?

Dan McCoy

[12:37] I don't think so.

[12:38] I think it was just this one.

Stuart Wellington

[12:39] First time, it's like the smoky Lord of the Rings New Line logo.

Dan McCoy

[12:42] All of them have very cheap credits sequences.

[12:45] They look…

Elliott Kalan

[12:46] The credits look cheap.

[12:46] This movie has a lot of snow globe material in it.

[12:49] So maybe that's…

[12:49] But you're right.

[12:50] Oh, really?

[12:50] The opening credits…

[12:51] Okay.

[12:52] I'll check my notes, but I don't remember it.

[12:53] I'm informing the listeners.

[12:55] I'm not telling you.

[12:57] The credits do look very cheap.

[13:00] Yeah.

[13:01] Yeah.

[13:01] It looks like…

[13:02] Right off the bat, it looks like a TV movie more than a theatrical release.

Stuart Wellington

[13:05] And Alonzo, you've seen a lot of TV movies.

Alonso Duralde

[13:08] More than anyone probably should.

[13:10] Yes.

[13:11] I…

[13:12] This was…

[13:12] I was…

[13:13] You know, we talked about this particular movie on Deck the Hallmark this year.

[13:17] And one of the co-hosts there said that he read that the budget for this movie was $12 million,

[13:23] which just seems impossible to me.

[13:24] Because I don't think you get your one and two on the call sheet for this movie for $12 million.

[13:30] But given how janky a lot of it looks, it's not out of the question, I suppose.

Dan McCoy

[13:34] Yeah.

[13:35] $10 million went to Tim Allen and the rest was distributed around.

Stuart Wellington

[13:41] The…

[13:42] Okay.

[13:42] So the movie opens in the North Pole.

[13:45] The North Pole kind of looks like Disneyland dressed up for Christmas, right?

[13:51] It looks kind of like a theme park.

[13:53] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[13:53] It's the happiest place that children are used as slave labor to make toys for other children.

Dan McCoy

[13:58] Those are elves, Elliot.

[14:00] They're just played by children.

Elliott Kalan

[14:01] They're just…

[14:02] They're children with funny-looking ears.

[14:04] Like, that's what they are.

[14:05] They're children with Sub-Mariner ears.

[14:06] It's the happiest place at Magnetic North.

[14:09] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[14:10] The…

[14:11] So we open with Mrs. Claus teaching elf school.

[14:15] Again, I don't know if they're elf…

[14:16] Are they elf children?

[14:18] I don't know because they're all children.

[14:20] All the elves are children.

Elliott Kalan

[14:21] It's a weird thing.

[14:21] It's a weird thing for her to be teaching school for adults unless this is like a night

[14:25] school so these elves can have degrees that will then help them rise with the ranks.

[14:29] Yeah, yeah.

[14:30] So, again, we're evidence that they're children.

[14:31] It's the baby Yoda thing.

Alonso Duralde

[14:32] You know, he's actually 50.

[14:33] So, like, who even knows?

Dan McCoy

[14:35] I do also want to say about Elizabeth Mitchell.

Elliott Kalan

[14:37] Baby Yoda started getting his social security checks.

[14:41] But he's just a baby.

[14:42] I know.

[14:42] But he's old enough, technically.

[14:44] It's a Benjamin Button kind of thing.

Dan McCoy

[14:46] Elizabeth Mitchell in this movie, at the end of Santa Claus…

Elliott Kalan

[14:49] That's why Yoda talks backwards.

[14:50] Jesus Christ.

[14:51] Because he's a Benjamin Button.

[14:53] Yes, that's it.

[14:53] That's why he ages backwards and he talks backwards.

[14:56] And he's seen so much history.

[14:57] Just like Benjamin Button.

[14:59] Yeah.

[14:59] He's kind of experienced America like we have.

[15:01] Hey, remember when the Beatles were on Ed Sullivan?

[15:03] Benjamin Button watched that on TV, too.

Alonso Duralde

[15:07] That's why Brad Pitt puts all of the subjects of the sentences at the end in that movie.

[15:12] Because it's backwards.

[15:14] Okay, guys.

[15:14] Dan has something funny to say.

Dan McCoy

[15:15] No, it's not funny, but I certainly would like to be able to get through an entire sentence

[15:20] without going back to the previous bit at the very end of it.

[15:25] No, I just wanted to say, in the previous movie, Elizabeth Mitchell, there's a credit sequence

[15:32] where she, like, dances and lip syncs to a Christmas song or whatever.

[15:36] And they have Santa Claus-ed her up in the credit sequence.

[15:39] You know, like, they've done the fat suit, like, slight aging.

[15:43] I mean, not to the degree of Tim Allen, but...

Elliott Kalan

[15:46] She doesn't have a big bushy beard.

Dan McCoy

[15:47] Yes.

[15:48] But in this movie, like, they clearly were like, we can't have that.

[15:52] Elizabeth Mitchell is a pretty woman and we're Hollywood.

[15:55] We can't have her looking like that throughout the film.

Alonso Duralde

[15:58] According to Wikipedia, they shot for a couple days with her in the, like,

[16:03] Zaftig Mrs. Claus, like, makeup.

[16:05] And then they were like, her face wasn't moving.

[16:08] Too horny.

[16:09] But no, I'm sure if anything, it was like, not skinny and hot enough for the execs who

[16:15] are overseeing this movie.

[16:17] Who wanna fuck Mrs. Claus?

Elliott Kalan

[16:20] Considering I work on a TV show that is an animated show about dogs and a note that we would get

[16:25] would be basically, why aren't these dogs sexier?

[16:28] So...

[16:28] Well, why aren't they?

[16:31] The idea that...

Stuart Wellington

[16:31] Yeah, that was a note you got from me, bitch.

[16:34] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[16:35] The idea that they're like, Santa Claus is a boss.

[16:38] Like, Santa Claus is a famous rich guy.

[16:39] He's gotta have a hotter wife than this.

[16:41] This is crazy.

[16:42] Like, when people are like, Hugh Jackman, there's no way he loves that woman.

[16:46] She's not at the same attractiveness level that he is according to us.

[16:50] He's Wolverine, for God's sakes.

[16:52] This is Wolverine.

[16:53] He should be with Jean Grey or another woman with red hair or Mariko, a Japanese woman.

[16:59] That's the only kind of people Wolverine can be with.

Stuart Wellington

[17:01] Okay, so Mrs. Claus, the elves don't wanna learn, so she's like, I'll tell you a real

[17:06] fucking story.

[17:07] So we get a flashback.

[17:08] So the rest of the movie is basically a nested flashback, okay?

[17:11] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[17:12] And...

[17:12] And the movie really needs those bookends, right?

[17:15] It absolutely needs it.

[17:16] It would not be able to function without them.

[17:17] It would not make sense.

Alonso Duralde

[17:18] I mean, that's the punchline.

[17:20] I'm gonna make a case there's a point to this, but I'll wait till we get there.

[17:23] Oh, okay.

Elliott Kalan

[17:23] Okay, please do, because I was like, this is maybe the most unnecessary kind of flashback.

Dan McCoy

[17:28] You better start building your fucking case, buddy.

Elliott Kalan

[17:32] So we are...

Stuart Wellington

[17:33] So they say you can Phoenix write this shit at the end of the episode, yeah.

[17:36] So, yep.

[17:38] So the story she's going to tell them is, it seems to be her birth story.

[17:42] It begins with a false alarm.

[17:44] Mrs. Claus is pregnant.

[17:45] She's going to have Santa's child.

[17:48] I learn that it's not his first child, because apparently that's information not covered in the previous films.

[17:54] Damien Hellstrom, son of Santa.

[17:56] Exactly.

Elliott Kalan

[17:58] This is his first child as a Santa.

[18:01] Yes.

[18:01] His previous children were as a normie.

[18:03] Which, by the way...

[18:04] This is his first time.

[18:05] That he's infusing the power of Santa into his seat.

Dan McCoy

[18:07] This is one of the many questions that the Santa Claus raised for me that is not answered by the Santa Claus films.

[18:16] Which is like, okay, Santa is having a child, like, not from his previous pre-Santa life.

[18:23] He's having a child at the North Pole.

[18:24] But we've learned that also Santa is like a mantle that gets passed along.

[18:31] Are there other children from previous Santas living in the North Pole mad that their birthright does not go to them, but whoever might murder their father?

[18:41] That their father didn't die in front of them and they could put the coat on.

[18:44] Exactly.

Elliott Kalan

[18:45] That's a good question.

[18:46] I once did a presentation many years ago at a former guest, Kevin Mars, one of his Kevin Geeks Out shows that was about Christmas.

[18:53] And I did a presentation about all the movies I could find that involved the children of Santa Claus.

[18:58] Because there's a lot of them where it's like Jenny McCarthy is Santa's daughter or Kelsey Grammer is Santa's son or whatever.

[19:04] There's one where, was it Matthew Modine, I think, is Santa's?

[19:08] I can't remember.

[19:09] Arthur Christmas has a whole lineage and Noel.

[19:11] Yeah, Arthur Christmas.

[19:12] And I kind of wondered the same thing.

[19:15] Although my presentation then went off on the idea that using the Santa Claus as a basis that Santa has now become viral.

[19:20] And at this rate of spread, the entire world will be Santa.

[19:23] At a certain point.

[19:24] But this was pre-COVID.

[19:26] Very, very prophetic.

[19:27] But yeah, you're right.

[19:28] There's a lot of unasked questions about what it means for Santa Claus to have a child.

[19:33] Since a Santa Claus is not one person, but instead like the kind of fan continuity of James Bond is a name and a position that gets passed along from one to another.

[19:44] Or the Dread Pirate Roberts.

[19:45] There you go.

Stuart Wellington

[19:45] Exactly.

[19:46] I just want to say.

[19:47] Go ahead.

[19:48] No, no, no.

[19:49] Oh, please.

[19:50] Let me go along with the plot here.

[19:51] So this is in addition to raising questions for you.

[19:53] It's raising some issues between Santa and Mrs. Claus because she is pregnant.

[19:57] She's due any day now.

[19:59] And also Christmas is coming up.

[20:01] So she's worried.

[20:02] Birds are getting fat.

[20:03] Yeah.

[20:03] She's worried that she's going to deliver her baby while he's delivering presents.

[20:07] She also feels lonely.

[20:08] Which would make her baby Jesus also.

[20:09] Exactly.

[20:09] Which would only complicate things for her.

Alonso Duralde

[20:11] And she's also lonely because she only has elves to hang out with.

[20:14] You know, if you've got like that one day a year that is absolutely booked, maybe you would like reschedule your, you know, what's the word I want here?

[20:25] Excemination?

[20:25] Thank you.

[20:26] Yes, exactly.

[20:27] To maybe happen in the summer or something.

Elliott Kalan

[20:29] Unfortunately, well, they thought they were using the rhythm method because he's Catholic.

[20:33] But unfortunately, they got the dates wrong.

[20:36] And this is one of the weird crutches of the movie.

[20:38] They were dead set on wanting a Scorpio.

[20:41] That's true.

[20:42] Yeah.

[20:43] Because he really wanted his kid to have a reason to wear the jacket from Drive.

[20:47] You don't need a reason, Elliot.

Stuart Wellington

[20:48] The reason is because it's so cool.

[20:50] Because it's a sweet jacket.

Alonso Duralde

[20:51] And if you're Santa's kid, you really want to be born on Christmas Day because nothing is going to overshadow your birthday.

[20:56] Oh, God.

[20:58] What a nightmare.

Elliott Kalan

[20:58] It's like if you're Wes Craven's child and you're born on Halloween or you're Gary Marshall's child and you're born on any holiday.

[21:07] This is the – and, Stuart, I'm sure you're getting into this.

[21:10] But the crux of it where it's like she's lonely.

[21:12] She's expecting her child.

[21:14] She wants to be with her parents.

[21:16] For some reason, this is a problem that – this is a Gordian knot that no one can figure out how to untie.

[21:20] There's no way she could possibly leave the North Pole and go spend the time with her family, something that pregnant women routinely do many times.

Stuart Wellington

[21:28] And all she does is sit around in Santa Claus's office that features a Zardoz-like fireplace of Santa Claus's face.

[21:37] Well, wait, wait, wait.

Elliott Kalan

[21:37] That's an amazing piece of set decoration.

[21:39] Dan, is that in the other movies?

[21:40] No, I don't think it was.

[21:42] It's a bizarre piece of set decoration.

[21:43] And then when he comes down the chimney into it, it opens its mouth and goes like, ho, ho, ho.

[21:47] Like, it's crazy.

Alonso Duralde

[21:48] Yeah, but I hung on to that for the TV show.

Elliott Kalan

[21:50] But I think, yeah, it's introduced in three.

[21:53] It's almost worth the movie being created just so that that exists.

[21:57] It's so frightening.

[21:58] It's a million dollars, guys, all on the screen.

Dan McCoy

[21:59] It's a somewhat manufactured conflict.

[22:03] But, like, it does make sense.

[22:06] Like, she wants to be with her husband when the birth happens.

[22:09] And he is super tied to being at the North Pole being Santa Claus.

Stuart Wellington

[22:16] Elliot, you have kids.

[22:16] I mean, what if your job delivering presents made you miss the birth of your child?

Dan McCoy

[22:22] Yeah, as a UPS man with those tight shorts of yours.

Elliott Kalan

[22:25] I mean, yeah, well, the shorts, thank you.

[22:27] They do show off my gams in a way that I'm very happy with.

[22:29] I mean, that's the thing about being a UPS guy is you're not just someone who delivers presents.

[22:33] You're a cultural and religious institution that goes back hundreds, if not thousands of years.

[22:38] And so you really have – the UPS driver is such an important part of every child's holiday season, second only to the Hess truck.

[22:45] Because every year there's going to be a new Hess truck and you've got to buy it.

Stuart Wellington

[22:48] Time marches on.

[22:50] There's a new Hess truck every year, Elliot.

[22:52] It's a fucking – it's just part of life.

[22:55] You have to accept it.

Elliott Kalan

[22:55] Yeah, to quote Ben Franklin, there's nothing certain in this world but death taxes and a new Hess truck every year.

[23:00] Let's go get it.

Dan McCoy

[23:01] I thought when you said that the UPS driver was this cultural thing, you were going to talk of, of course, the cave paintings of all the gals in the steno pool being horny for the UPS guy.

Elliott Kalan

[23:11] Yeah, yeah, that goes in Lascaux.

[23:13] I mean, you can't go see them now in person, but you can see the pictures of them.

[23:15] Yeah.

[23:16] There's a whole Herzog documentary about this.

[23:18] His documentary Cave of Forgotten UPS Fantasies.

[23:22] Anyway, see it in 3D because they painted – the way they painted on the rocks so that the phallus of the UPS driver points right out at you using the natural rock projection.

Alonso Duralde

[23:30] I like to think I'm speaking for fans of the show everywhere where I say I need to hear somebody use the phrase bad dad, Santa dad before this episode is over.

Stuart Wellington

[23:39] Oh, you're right.

Alonso Duralde

[23:41] He is – that's exactly what he is.

[23:42] I mean, that's definitely – yeah, I mean, that's definitely the case.

Stuart Wellington

[23:45] So he is also kind of being a bad Santa.

[23:48] Not like in the movie bad Santa.

[23:50] No, no, no.

[23:50] But he is kind of neglecting his duties in anticipation for this – for this –

[23:54] Checking lists only once, et cetera.

Elliott Kalan

[23:56] Mm-hmm.

[23:57] Yeah.

[23:57] He's – his mind is neither on his work nor on the coming baby because he's trying to do it all.

[24:04] Can a Santa have it all?

[24:05] That's the question of the movie.

Dan McCoy

[24:06] Yeah.

[24:07] Again, relatable.

Stuart Wellington

[24:07] So as we said, it seems like the solution is for Mrs. Claus's parents to come up and spend time with her during the holidays and during her birth.

[24:18] However, those in-laws are not aware of her – their son-in-law's profession or –

[24:27] End identity.

[24:27] Yeah, I guess.

[24:28] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[24:28] Now, I want to say, having not really paid that much attention to the credits, I thought to myself, now, if I was going to cast a man to play a sort of a maybe disapproving father-in-law who doesn't know that his kid – his daughter's married to Santa and is – has to be the subject of this elaborate ruse where they say that they're in Canada and not the North Pole, et cetera, et cetera.

[24:52] Or who would I cast?

[24:54] Robert Neal.

[24:55] I thought to myself, Alan Arkin.

[24:57] Alan Arkin, yeah, yeah.

[24:58] And lo and behold, there he was.

Elliott Kalan

[25:00] Ta-da.

[25:02] There's only one issue with that, which – and I'll mention this, is that there's a line coming up where his wife, Anne Margaret, says something about, like, well, I know you've never been all that into Christmas.

[25:11] And I want him to say, because I'm Jewish.

[25:13] Yeah.

[25:14] But it never comes up.

[25:15] And that was the only thing that stuck for me was I was like, why would you cast such an obviously Jewish actor to play this part?

[25:21] That's why he's so dubious.

[25:22] That's usually funny.

[25:23] I mean it makes sense because I want it – or like when at the – you know, spoiler alert, when they finally learn the identity of Santa Claus for him to be like – he's just like, this is great.

[25:33] As if, like, he doesn't burn inside him now.

[25:36] Oh, we got to –

[25:36] Santa Claus is one of the number one anti-Semites in the world.

Dan McCoy

[25:40] We got to really focus on his realization.

[25:40] But once we get there.

[25:42] When we get there.

Stuart Wellington

[25:43] When we get there, yeah.

[25:44] Okay.

[25:44] So this will require a little bit of subterfuge.

[25:47] We get a meeting of the legendary figures.

[25:51] So these are some kind of a council of –

[25:54] Yes.

[25:54] Kind of a random assortment of names that somebody picked out.

[25:58] These were in two.

[25:58] It's very miscellaneous.

[25:59] These were in part two.

[26:01] It's not even Rise of the Guardians, you know.

Elliott Kalan

[26:04] Yeah, exactly.

[26:05] And so do you – who wants – is it okay if I go through the names or do you want to go through who's on the council?

[26:10] You're very excited.

[26:11] Why don't you do it, Elliot?

[26:12] Okay, the council of legends.

[26:14] It has all the most important characters.

[26:17] All the top hits.

[26:17] There's the Easter Bunny who is gross throughout the movie.

[26:21] There's Cupid as played by Kevin Pollack.

[26:23] Kevin Pollack.

Dan McCoy

[26:24] Who's just like floating around kind of like in shrinkage with like the old style like just like video compositing.

Elliott Kalan

[26:33] Then there's the Tooth Fairy, the Sandman, Father Time, Mother Nature.

Stuart Wellington

[26:38] Sandman played by Michael Dorn, dude.

Elliott Kalan

[26:41] Get your fucking bat left, baby.

[26:43] It's hard for me to recognize him without plastic prosthetic forehead ridges on his forehead.

Stuart Wellington

[26:48] And they considered it I'm sure for this movie.

Elliott Kalan

[26:51] And here's the – okay, guys.

[26:53] Here's what we're going to play a little thing of.

[26:54] And Mother Nature and Father Time.

[26:56] And of course Peter Boyle is Father Time but he doesn't get to do or save very much.

Dan McCoy

[26:59] By the way, I want to say Peter Boyle, a character who in the first movie plays Tim Allen's boss and then they just bring him back.

[27:06] Oh, that's right.

[27:07] In two or three.

Elliott Kalan

[27:08] Because Father Time is the boss of us all.

[27:11] I guess so.

[27:12] Guys, we're going to play a little game of choose your own adventure here.

[27:15] Should we – if you want to hear me be slightly more woke than I probably need to be and read a racial subtext into some of the casting that I probably shouldn't but it's there, tell me.

[27:28] If you don't want me to do that and we could just go on with a summary, tell me that.

Dan McCoy

[27:32] I mean I think I can guess what it is.

[27:34] No, I want to hear this.

Elliott Kalan

[27:35] Okay.

[27:36] What I want to say is that so all of these actors, all these characters, these legendary characters, setting aside the fact that of all these legendary characters,

[27:43] they either belong with – except for the Cupid and I guess the Tooth Fairy and Father Time Mother – actually, you know what?

[27:50] There's – the only holidays that are represented are either Valentine's Day or Christian holidays.

[27:56] Setting aside that, that the only black actors, the only actors of color on this council are Aisha Tyler as Mother Nature and Michael Dorn as the Sandman.

[28:05] That the only two actors on this council are playing the sleepy guy who's always falling asleep and the woman who is connected to nature and therefore I guess has more of a –

[28:14] An earthy quality literally.

[28:16] An earthy – and you can read into it less civilized quality.

[28:19] And I know this is probably them trying to be diverse in their casting.

[28:23] But it's like why can't a black actor be the Tooth Fairy?

[28:25] Like why do the black actors have to be the characters who are either falling asleep all the time or are more in tune with nature than us white people?

[28:32] And I was like this is them – I assume there's no – I assume they weren't like – of course the sleepy guy has to be black.

Dan McCoy

[28:38] You've given much more thought to the casting of Santa Claus 3 than anyone involved in Santa Claus 3.

[28:42] Anyone involved in Santa Claus 3 did, yes.

Stuart Wellington

[28:45] Are you saying this Sandman in Mike Tyson's Punch-Out was also a racial stereotype in a video game that is otherwise super not racist at all?

Elliott Kalan

[28:56] Well, the only reason I would say no to that is because the Sandman in that, the whole thing is that he puts you to sleep as opposed to this Sandman who is constantly sleeping.

[29:02] In Soviet Russia, Sandman sleeps you.

[29:05] That's Soto Popinski.

[29:07] Yeah, yeah.

[29:08] Or maybe I'm reading into it wrong and it's a reference to the Sandman from the Apollo –

[29:13] Theater.

[29:14] Theater.

[29:14] But, you know, it was just one of those things the same way that in –

[29:17] Or fucking Morpheus.

[29:19] The same way that it was in like in the movie Meg where the one black character was like, I can't swim.

[29:24] And no, it's not because I'm black.

[29:25] And it was like, well, why can't the black character just know how to swim?

[29:28] Like that's – like I feel like there's a – I guess Santa Claus 3, try harder.

[29:32] But they don't really try with anything in the movie.

Dan McCoy

[29:34] I think you missed the boat on getting them to try anything.

Stuart Wellington

[29:38] So we get the final member of the legendary figures who is the subject.

[29:42] Look, Santa Claus 3, I know you're a 16-year-old movie, but try better.

[29:44] It's never too late to change.

[29:47] So we get the subject of this meeting.

[29:51] Jack Frost, the legendary figure who has been causing a real problem around the world because he is jealous that he does not have a holiday associated with himself.

[30:03] Jack Frost looks like one of those cherry-popping Dannys dressed up in like a zoot suit with like icicle hair, like Guy Fieri hair, and like multiple wallet chains.

[30:12] He looks amazing.

[30:13] Played, of course, by Martin Schill.

[30:14] I don't remember the wallet chains.

Dan McCoy

[30:16] He has like four wallet chains.

[30:17] He didn't see that?

[30:18] Yeah.

[30:18] Okay.

[30:20] I mean, maybe it's a watch fob.

[30:23] You're – no.

Stuart Wellington

[30:24] I mean, check the fucking tape, everybody.

[30:27] Okay.

[30:28] So Jack Frost is in trouble because he's trying to upstage Santa.

[30:32] He's using his Frost powers.

[30:34] He's got magic, everybody.

[30:35] And he's less popular.

[30:37] And they bring up the idea of the escape clause where – was the escape clause mentioned in previous Santa Claus?

Dan McCoy

[30:43] No, these are all just new things that are being invented to extend the brand.

Stuart Wellington

[30:47] So as punishment for his crimes, of which they are legion, Jack Frost is sentenced to –

Elliott Kalan

[30:54] I mean, his crime seems to mainly be that he put up cardboard standees in malls that say like happy Frostmas or something like that.

Stuart Wellington

[31:00] And he like caused like a snowstorm in Mexico, which I'm sure would like fuck up the –

[31:05] Crop failure.

[31:05] Oh, that's true.

[31:06] Exactly.

Elliott Kalan

[31:07] That's pretty bad.

[31:07] They don't really mention how it would impact the agriculture of the world at that point.

Dan McCoy

[31:13] You know what?

[31:13] I'm seeing one thing that could be a wallet chain in one picture.

Elliott Kalan

[31:18] I'm glad Dan Lumbo is on the case.

Dan McCoy

[31:21] I wouldn't call it a defining part of his character, but I do see –

[31:24] Okay, well –

[31:25] Santa Claus, I know you're busy.

Elliott Kalan

[31:27] I'll let you go, oh, one more question though.

[31:28] One more.

[31:29] That makes sense.

[31:31] It's a role that's been passed down through the generations.

[31:35] One more question.

[31:36] When you have a kid, are you going to murder yourself in front of him so he can pick up your jacket and he'll be the next Santa?

Dan McCoy

[31:41] Martin Short, a man, no matter what, like you –

Elliott Kalan

[31:45] Dan, you got to give him credit.

[31:46] His last name aptly describes his height.

Dan McCoy

[31:48] Well, yeah, that's what I was going to give him credit for.

[31:50] No, I was also going to give him credit for it no matter what he's in.

[31:54] Like whether or not you like the performance, he is not phoning it in.

[31:58] Like he is really – he is going for it.

[32:00] Like he is the person who looks the least tired in Santa Claus 3.

[32:04] Yeah.

[32:05] Yeah.

[32:05] He's staying away from the Sandman.

[32:07] Yeah.

[32:07] He's very up for it.

Stuart Wellington

[32:10] He puts on a very good rendition parody song of New York, New York later.

[32:16] He's great.

Elliott Kalan

[32:16] That's my favorite part of the movie.

[32:18] Yeah.

[32:18] If you got Martin Short in it, have him do a big old-time showbiz type number.

[32:22] Like that's what he wants to do, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[32:25] Okay, so the council agrees to let Jack do community service to help Santa with the toy delivery,

[32:32] which seems like a mistake up front, but it's okay.

[32:35] I mean, we need to have a story, right?

[32:37] So Santa decides that he's going to bring family to the North Pole to make his wife happy

[32:44] now that he's got extra help from Jack Frost.

[32:47] So he first goes to visit his brother.

[32:51] He goes to visit –

[32:52] Sister and brother-in-law.

[32:53] Is that –

[32:54] No, no, no, no.

[32:55] Family.

[32:55] No, no, that's his ex-wife.

[32:56] That's his ex-wife.

[32:57] And her family.

[32:57] Thank you.

[32:58] Judge Reinhold.

[32:59] Makes a lot of sense, actually.

[33:00] Yeah.

[33:01] His pre-Santa son.

[33:02] Thank you.

[33:03] This makes a lot more sense.

[33:04] Who has no claim on the throne.

[33:06] No claim to the coat.

[33:08] No.

[33:08] The Dauphin.

[33:10] He goes to visit the family.

[33:12] We are introduced to a pair of farting reindeer puppets.

[33:16] Yeah.

[33:16] Which apparently are regulars in the series.

Dan McCoy

[33:19] Yeah.

[33:19] I don't think they got featured that much in the first one, but definitely largely in the

[33:24] second one.

[33:25] There were a big –

[33:25] That sounds great.

[33:26] A lot of reindeer puppetry.

[33:27] A lot of reindeer reaction shots.

[33:30] Oh, boy.

[33:31] Yeah.

[33:31] And when we say puppets, we're talking, you know, like creature shop style animatronics.

[33:35] They aren't, you know, just like hand puppets of reindeer.

Elliott Kalan

[33:38] Just to be clear.

[33:39] That would be hilarious.

[33:40] They're just two marionettes.

[33:41] Yeah.

[33:42] And Santa is like, come on, guys.

[33:44] Pull the sleigh.

Stuart Wellington

[33:44] Sherry Lewis is standing behind them.

[33:46] Moving them out.

[33:48] So with a little bit of work, Santa's able to manage to convince his, what, ex-family to

[33:55] join him in the North Pole.

Dan McCoy

[33:57] I would say he convinces them.

[33:59] I think that they are like –

[34:00] They really want it.

[34:01] They want to come and help.

[34:02] They're like, oh, she must be –

[34:03] They're gagging for it, right?

[34:04] Yeah.

[34:04] Yeah, having a hard time.

Elliott Kalan

[34:06] And how do you define a family?

[34:08] I think it's really great that he's close with his ex, that he's close with his son,

[34:11] that he's close with his ex's new husband and with their daughter that he is not blood-related

[34:17] to but clearly has a very warm relationship with given by the fact that he always is inviting

[34:22] her to hug him, which could be creepy but is clearly nice.

[34:25] So he's Santa Claus.

[34:26] I mean –

[34:27] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[34:27] I just wanted to clarify this plot point because Tim Allen does not want more people joining

[34:32] him at the North Pole at this point.

[34:34] This is just an extra set of stress that his ex's family will be there along with his

[34:39] in-laws along with Christmas.

[34:41] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[34:41] Although I don't know why you wouldn't want Judge Reinhold coming to your workplace.

[34:45] That just seems like –

Dan McCoy

[34:46] He's so mean to Judge Reinhold through the entire series.

[34:49] A man who seems perfectly nice.

[34:51] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[34:51] He does give him a weenie whistle though.

[34:55] So he –

[34:57] I don't remember that.

[34:58] In the first one.

[34:59] That was some kind of move.

[35:01] They do that in a public –

[35:03] That was the thing he wanted as a kid.

Dan McCoy

[35:07] Oh.

[35:08] I see.

Stuart Wellington

[35:09] A weenie whistle costs more, Elliot.

Elliott Kalan

[35:11] You're right.

[35:12] So Santa Amelie's him in a nice way.

[35:15] Okay.

[35:15] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[35:16] Might.

[35:17] So he also goes to visit his in-laws, this time with a little help from his pal, the Sandman,

[35:23] and his in-law – and he manages to explain that he's taking them up to visit them in Canada,

[35:31] which is part of his ruse.

[35:32] He has convinced them they've never been to Canada.

[35:34] So they assume that if with a little bit of set decoration, they can make the North Pole appear to be Canada.

[35:40] So then they blast him in the face with some sleeping dust and then they all head up north, right?

[35:47] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[35:48] So, yeah.

[35:49] So, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[35:49] To recap, they've been drugged and taken to the North Pole.

[35:54] Under false pretenses.

Stuart Wellington

[35:55] Meanwhile, the North Pole is hard at work changing all the signs to say Canada stuff.

[36:00] All the elves put hats on so they just look like kids wearing hats instead of elves.

[36:06] Jack Frost is running around looking exactly the same.

[36:10] Well, Martin Short is Canadian, so he doesn't like to do anything.

[36:13] Yeah.

[36:13] It's true.

Elliott Kalan

[36:15] That's what Canadians look like, it turns out, is they have huge frosted tips.

[36:19] Four wallet chains.

[36:19] And you have more wallet chains.

Stuart Wellington

[36:21] Thank you.

[36:22] And he tricks the head elf into explaining the process of the escape clause, which involves saying a specific phrase while holding a magical snow globe.

[36:33] Okay.

[36:33] It's all about snow globes today.

[36:35] Jack Frost.

Elliott Kalan

[36:36] He has to say, I wish I was never Santa Claus or whatever.

[36:41] At all.

[36:42] At all.

[36:43] And it's one of those things where it's like, well, if he could have said this in the first movie when he didn't want to be Santa Claus, why didn't he?

[36:50] Did he not want to be Santa Claus in the first movie?

Dan McCoy

[36:53] He didn't.

Elliott Kalan

[36:54] He spends most of the first movie not wanting to be.

[36:56] As anyone who has a life would not want it interrupted by suddenly having to take away.

Stuart Wellington

[37:00] I feel like Ernest was like all about it when he had to do it.

Elliott Kalan

[37:03] Well, Ernest was just saving Christmas for a day.

[37:06] Like, I'll be Santa for a day.

[37:07] I don't want to do it.

[37:07] And he was the liaison to the new Santa.

[37:10] Yeah.

[37:10] If I'm Leslie Jones, I just want to host the Daily Show for a week.

[37:13] I don't want to make a career out of it.

[37:14] To jump back.

Dan McCoy

[37:16] Stuart, you will.

[37:17] And kiss ourselves.

[37:17] You will appreciate this.

[37:20] The first Santa Claus is just one step removed from being a horror movie.

[37:24] Because this man's body changes without him doing anything.

[37:28] He can't do anything about it.

[37:30] He grows beards that, you know, if he shaves them, they're back at the end of the day.

Elliott Kalan

[37:35] The weight gain is instant and inerratic.

[37:37] It's like the fly a little bit.

[37:39] He is cursed to be Santa.

[37:41] Yeah, very much so.

Elliott Kalan

[37:41] Yes.

Dan McCoy

[37:42] Unless someone else removes his curse by death as well.

[37:47] Yeah.

[37:47] And the film never quite acknowledges how horrifying it is to have to leave your life completely behind to become this legendary figure.

Elliott Kalan

[37:57] Mm-hmm.

[37:58] Well, because why would they, Dan?

[37:59] Everyone in the world loves Santa Claus equally and understands that Christmas is the greatest thing in the history of human civilization.

[38:07] Everyone in the world.

[38:08] I'm bitter, Elliot.

[38:09] Every single human being in the world.

[38:11] I'm not quite sure.

[38:11] What could possibly...

[38:11] Am I saying sarcasm?

[38:13] The time is...

[38:13] I don't know why you would...

[38:14] I am...

[38:15] I am...

[38:16] You got a real grinch over here.

[38:17] Why would there be any reason for me to take issue with the idea that Christmas is a universal concept that all humans...

Dan McCoy

[38:25] It's almost like we compelled you to do a Christmas movie on our own podcast, even though...

Elliott Kalan

[38:32] It was in no way me acquiescing to the majority culture that I have never been a part of and never will be a part of.

Stuart Wellington

[38:39] So Santa arrives with his family and his in-laws who were asleep and drugged.

[38:44] They run around.

[38:47] They visit.

[38:48] They do all the normal stuff that you would do when you show your family your place of business.

[38:55] Meanwhile, Jack Frost is hunting for the Hall of Snow Globes and he's tricking the various elves and sabotaging stuff while Santa tries to entertain his family and maintain his ruse that they are, in fact, in Canada.

[39:09] And he is a lowly toy maker.

Elliott Kalan

[39:11] A lowly toy maker who employs dozens, if not hundreds...

[39:15] Of children.

Stuart Wellington

[39:16] Of children.

Dan McCoy

[39:16] Who he claims are just what Canadians look like.

[39:19] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[39:20] They are just very short, youthful-looking people with pointy ears.

Elliott Kalan

[39:25] Yeah, it's the cold weather.

[39:26] It keeps them preserved.

Stuart Wellington

[39:27] Yeah.

[39:27] All of Jack Frost's skullduggery causes stuff to break.

[39:30] But luckily, Santa's father-in-law is kind of a man's man.

[39:33] Alan Arkin's kind of like a how-to fix-it guy.

[39:36] Mr. Fix-it, yeah.

[39:37] So they're able to fix a lot of things.

[39:38] And it seems like they've saved Christmas.

[39:43] You say that as if it's the most boring thing in the world for Christmas days.

[39:46] I guess.

[39:47] Like many plot points in this movie, they're resolved very quickly.

[39:51] There's no time to even mourn the loss of Christmas before it's saved again.

Alonso Duralde

[39:56] I just want to point out, this movie comes in at a lean 92 minutes.

[40:00] This is the shortest of the three.

[40:02] They do not spend much time on anything, including the whopping plot twist, which we're going to get to later.

Dan McCoy

[40:09] Oddly, number two is the longest.

[40:11] And you feel it.

[40:12] Santa Horny.

[40:13] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[40:14] So.

[40:16] That was the original subtitle.

[40:18] That's why.

[40:18] Santa Horny.

[40:19] Santa Claus 2, no subtitle.

[40:21] The Santa Claus 3, the escape clause.

[40:23] Because up until they printed the posters, the subtitle was the Santa Claus 2, Santa Horny.

[40:27] And I think at the last minute, Bob Iger stepped in and was like, we can't do this, guys.

[40:30] No, no, no, no, no, no.

[40:31] Like, we can't.

[40:31] We can't put Santa Horny as the tagline.

[40:34] And they were like, look at the poster for Little Mermaid.

[40:36] There's a penis on that poster.

[40:38] We're Disney.

[40:39] We can do whatever we want.

[40:40] But finally cooler heads prevailed.

[40:41] Some prints on Disney Plus.

Alonso Duralde

[40:42] Do still have the Santa Horny title.

[40:44] But you really have them.

Stuart Wellington

[40:45] Yeah.

[40:47] If you squint your eyes on the little thumbnail image, you can see.

Dan McCoy

[40:51] Yeah.

[40:51] They're pitching other stuff like Mistel Horny.

Elliott Kalan

[40:56] No.

[40:56] Again, it's not.

[40:58] It's the horny part is the issue.

[40:59] Not that I don't like.

[41:00] Not that I think there should be another Christmas pun in there.

[41:04] Horny holidays?

[41:05] The Santa Claus 2?

[41:06] Horny holidays?

[41:07] Again.

Dan McCoy

[41:08] What about Santa Claus takes on all comers?

[41:12] Santa Claus 2?

Elliott Kalan

[41:15] Santa does Dallas?

[41:16] It's not.

[41:17] Okay.

[41:17] One, it's inaccurate to the plot.

[41:19] That's my main issue.

Dan McCoy

[41:20] The opposite direction of what we're asking.

Alonso Duralde

[41:24] Don't even come to me with the intergenerational gangbang title.

Elliott Kalan

[41:28] We refused that two meetings ago.

[41:31] Yes.

[41:32] And one person just lowers their hand in the meeting.

[41:35] That's exactly what they're going to bring up.

Stuart Wellington

[41:36] You guys got more porn parody titles?

Elliott Kalan

[41:39] Probably.

[41:39] Let's just move on.

[41:40] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[41:40] Let's just go on.

[41:41] We could keep going.

[41:42] Yeah.

[41:42] I mean, ho, ho, ho.

[41:44] It writes itself.

[41:44] But anyway, continue.

Stuart Wellington

[41:45] So Santa takes the little girl into the Hall of Snow Globes.

Elliott Kalan

[41:48] Santa Claus 2, ho, ho, horny.

[41:50] Guys.

[41:51] We have to recall all the prints.

[41:53] It turns out.

Stuart Wellington

[41:55] We're losing the thread here.

[41:59] And this gives Jack Frost the opportunity to sneak into the Hall of Snow Globes, which Dan described the Hall of Snow Globes.

[42:05] Can you recreate the magical experience of this little girl seeing it for the first time?

Dan McCoy

[42:09] Well, I tweeted a picture of it, and I said Santa Claus 3 and the Multiverse of Madness.

[42:13] Because it's got like this weird, like, I don't know.

[42:16] It's like this infinity of lights outside.

[42:19] It's, you know.

[42:21] Yeah.

[42:21] The end of Krampus, anyone?

[42:23] Yeah, it's like being in Captain Nemo's submarine, except for outside.

[42:28] It's not beautiful water creatures.

[42:30] It's just, like, space and stars.

[42:33] No, no.

Elliott Kalan

[42:33] It's kind of an Art Nouveau holiday portal to the madness of infinity.

[42:37] Yeah.

[42:38] The depths of eternity in the dark abyss.

[42:40] And if you stare into that abyss, it stares back into you.

[42:43] Constantly.

[42:44] Luckily, it's full of Christmas cheer.

[42:46] So there's lots of floating CGI snow globes everywhere.

[42:48] Yeah.

[42:49] And it's also, and this room is hidden behind, what, a vending machine in the break room?

[42:53] Yes.

Stuart Wellington

[42:54] Yes.

[42:55] It's behind, like, a Red Bull parody vending machine.

[42:59] So Jack Frost takes.

[43:00] Yeah, called Red Deer.

[43:00] Yeah.

[43:00] Jack Frost takes the magical snow globe.

[43:03] The little girl sees him do it.

[43:05] And she alerts her parents, which, of course, means he has to freeze them with his freezing magic.

[43:11] So we get no more Judge Reinhold, folks.

[43:13] Time to click on.

[43:15] Cannot catch a break, this guy.

Elliott Kalan

[43:16] Yeah.

[43:17] No.

[43:17] We do get to, at the very end, we will get to see him do what every actor dreams of doing when they get into the business.

[43:23] Is pretend to be cold as CGI ices thaws off of you.

[43:27] And it lobbily falls off.

[43:29] It's one of those scenes where I was like, whenever I see actors in a movie having to do something patently ridiculous like that.

[43:35] Uh-huh.

[43:35] And I know that the effects are not there when they're doing it.

[43:38] There's part of me that's like, oh, they shouldn't have to do that.

[43:40] And there's part of me like, well, that's their job.

[43:42] Pretending stuff.

[43:43] How is that?

[43:43] Like, there's that story Mads Mikkelsen told.

[43:45] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[43:45] They work for you, Elliot.

[43:48] There's that story Mads Mikkelsen tells about being in an audition for Reed Richards and them saying, okay, now pretend your arm is stretching really long.

[43:54] And him walking out and being like, I'm not going to do that.

[43:56] And there's part of me that's like, yeah, Mads, stand up for yourself.

[43:58] But there's also part of me that's like, well, how is that any different from pretending that you've been unjustly accused of child molestation in The Hunt?

[44:06] They're both pretending something that hasn't happened.

[44:08] You're the prince of Denmark.

Alonso Duralde

[44:09] Your father is killed.

[44:11] Like, I don't know why that's any different than, you know.

Elliott Kalan

[44:13] How is that?

[44:14] Oh, I'm dying on stage.

[44:16] Uh, uh, uh, you're not really dying.

[44:17] That's no different.

[44:18] They're pretending your arm is getting all stretchy.

Stuart Wellington

[44:19] Prince Hamlet, if he could stretch his shit out super long, that would have been amazing.

[44:24] He could hold that fucking skull forever away.

[44:26] Totally different ending for sure.

Elliott Kalan

[44:28] He could have stabbed Polonius from across the room by accident.

[44:31] So easy.

[44:33] Yeah.

[44:33] Now I want to see that where it's, he's got, he's hit with radioactive cosmic rays in the beginning.

[44:39] And so when he stabs Polonius through the tapestry, he does it from across the room real fast.

[44:44] Like, he's, oh man.

[44:45] Mr. Fantastic, the prince of Denmark.

[44:48] He reaches across the graveyard to get Yorick's skull.

[44:51] To be or not to be totally awesome.

Stuart Wellington

[44:55] Man, you got to give Laird some kind of power.

[44:57] That fight at the end is going to be super one-sided.

[45:00] Oh, he's the super Skrull.

[45:01] He's got to be.

[45:02] He's got to be super Skrull.

[45:03] Yeah.

[45:04] And I don't know, Fortin Bross is Annihilus or something.

[45:07] Okay.

[45:07] Probably.

Elliott Kalan

[45:08] And Osric is, uh, is, uh, the mailman that always comes by.

[45:12] Oh, Willie Lumpkin.

[45:13] Willie Lumpkin.

[45:14] Yeah.

[45:14] What about Rosencrantz and Guildenstern?

Alonso Duralde

[45:16] Oh, no.

[45:16] I digress.

[45:17] Okay.

[45:18] So.

Elliott Kalan

[45:18] Well, oh, well, Rosencrantz.

[45:19] Well, that's Johnny Storm and White Wingfoot.

[45:21] Yeah.

[45:21] Anyway, because there's, oh, no.

[45:23] It's his friends from college, right?

[45:24] So Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are the thing in Doctor Doom.

[45:27] Makes perfect sense.

[45:27] Read Richard's actual friends in college.

[45:30] Oh, man.

[45:30] You know, it's amazing how well Hamlet maps him to the Fantastic Four.

[45:34] Does it?

[45:36] And Ophelia's the Miserable Woman.

[45:38] That's the thing is we don't make new stories anymore.

Stuart Wellington

[45:40] It's just universal tales that are spun with different wallpapers.

[45:43] The mythos of humanity.

[45:45] Yeah.

[45:46] Okay.

[45:47] So Sam is still fucking stressed out.

[45:49] He doesn't even know that Judge Reinhold got froze.

[45:52] And he's super stressed out.

[45:54] So you would, because his wife still wants him to be around.

[45:58] But it's like he brought her family up there, dude.

[46:02] Like that was the whole thing.

[46:03] Like, right?

[46:04] Why is she so, why is she ragging on him?

[46:07] Like they're here to get the pressure off me.

[46:10] That's the thing.

Elliott Kalan

[46:11] And I feel like this is the stress a lot of older guys who marry younger women go through.

[46:17] Where she's like, I want you to be here for our baby.

[46:19] And he's like, I had babies.

[46:21] I've done this before.

[46:22] This is new to you.

[46:23] Not new to me.

[46:24] Don't need to be here.

Stuart Wellington

[46:25] Elliot's doing a wig snatch motion while he says that.

Alonso Duralde

[46:28] Well, it's worth pointing out though.

[46:31] Santa is freaking out about this impending child.

[46:34] And it's like, dude, you've been here before.

[46:36] Like, I mean, Elliot, I'm assuming child two, you were much more chill about the whole process than child one.

[46:42] Very much so.

Elliott Kalan

[46:42] The whole thing was so much easier.

[46:44] And yeah, much more.

[46:45] It was like we've been through this before.

[46:47] We're not.

[46:47] It was still.

[46:48] It was still.

[46:49] You're still anxious.

[46:49] You're still frightened.

[46:50] But I didn't have the same feeling of once the baby is born, if I don't look at him constantly 24 hours a day, he'll stop breathing and die.

[46:57] Because I have to constantly look at him and make sure he's still alive.

[47:00] But the second baby, I was like, his body will keep working.

[47:03] It's not based on my observing him will not change reality that much.

[47:07] That it's the only thing keeping him alive.

Dan McCoy

[47:09] Raising a child at the North Pole has to be hard.

[47:11] I mean, what are the schools like?

[47:13] Is he going to be taken away by packs of wolves?

[47:14] Packs of wolves.

Elliott Kalan

[47:18] You do have to protect him from the wolves.

[47:19] That's a fair point.

[47:21] But I feel like this movie is setting it up, especially for someone who we've established can stop time, right, to deliver packages.

[47:30] It's really established a conflict that, one, kids cannot relate to.

[47:35] I do not think kids can relate to being pulled in two directions by your job and the stress of starting a family.

[47:41] Kids shouldn't be relating to that stress.

[47:43] And, two, that he has magic powers.

[47:45] So, like, he shouldn't be as stressed out.

[47:48] But it's a fake conflict.

[47:50] I guess what I'm saying is Santa Claus having to deliver presents on the same night a baby is due is a fake conflict you would never see in reality.

Stuart Wellington

[47:59] But if it happened in real life, it would be pretty crazy.

[48:01] Yeah, it's true.

[48:02] If it happened in real life, it would be nuts, I'm sure.

[48:04] You got to admit that.

[48:05] I'll admit it.

Elliott Kalan

[48:05] Just playing devil's head, playing by are you afraid of the dark rules, if I was in this situation, I probably would be stressed.

[48:11] But it's not a situation that from the outside is that stressful.

Alonso Duralde

[48:14] Well, I mean, also, you can't fold time and space the way that Santa can.

[48:18] So, presumably, he can deliver all the presents to all over the earth in one night and be at the side of the doula while his wife goes into labor.

Elliott Kalan

[48:26] The thing that –

[48:26] Yes.

Elliott Kalan

[48:27] And here's the other thing.

[48:28] Here's the other thing.

[48:29] Jack Frost fucking things up.

[48:30] That's Santa's problem for delegating to the wrong person.

[48:33] Exactly.

[48:33] He made that mistake.

[48:34] That's on him.

[48:34] And it's at the end of the day, well, Jack Frost, you're clearly trying to steal this holiday from me.

[48:39] Maybe I'll put you in charge.

[48:40] That's a bad move.

[48:41] Yeah, I'm going to bring you in.

Dan McCoy

[48:43] Yeah.

[48:43] Yeah, he's not –

[48:44] I mean, it's a big villain performance.

[48:45] He's not pretending he's a good guy.

[48:48] But I want to ask, though, like, the thing that bugs me out about Santa is, like –

[48:52] So, Tim Allen, you know, as Santa Claus in the Santa Claus films, seems to be experiencing time normally when he's delivering presents.

[49:03] It's not like he's super, like, speedy.

[49:06] Like, he's within it, you know.

[49:08] So, is every Christmas an eternity to him?

[49:11] Is he constantly, like, you know, 365 days of the year he's with his family, but then, like, that one day he's away from his child is, like, thousands of years.

[49:22] Is that what's going on?

Elliott Kalan

[49:23] Yeah, it's like Interstellar or some shit.

[49:24] Yeah, I bet that's what it feels like.

[49:25] And no time has passed for them or minimal time.

[49:28] So, it's like he's traveling at the speed of light.

[49:29] Yeah.

[49:30] So, it's an Interstellar.

[49:30] Except the opposite.

[49:32] Yeah, it's Interstellar.

[49:32] It's the opposite.

[49:33] Yeah.

[49:33] Yeah, it's like Interstellar, but with holiday, yuletide cheer.

Stuart Wellington

[49:38] And he has to visit everyone in the world because everyone loves Christmas.

[49:43] Everyone.

[49:44] Everybody.

Elliott Kalan

[49:44] Because every single person in every part of the year is both equally loves Christmas and is equally beloved and rewarded by Christmas.

[49:52] Okay, guys.

Stuart Wellington

[49:53] We've had enough goofs.

[49:54] Now it's time for this movie to get fucking serious, right?

[49:57] Okay.

[49:57] Because –

[49:58] Yes.

[49:58] Wait.

Elliott Kalan

[49:59] Wait.

[49:59] Before you do that, I just want to say, basically, Stuart, so Santa Claus's experience is like the kid in that Stephen King story.

[50:05] Was it the John?

[50:06] The John.

[50:06] The John, yeah, where he rips his fucking eyeballs out.

[50:08] It's so gross.

[50:09] Because for his family, it's been hours, but for him, it's been an infinite amount of time in the void.

[50:13] It's a long John, dude.

Elliott Kalan

[50:13] It's a long John, Daddy.

Stuart Wellington

[50:15] Yeah.

[50:16] So –

[50:16] Longer than anything, Daddy.

[50:17] Yeah.

[50:19] Oh, man.

[50:19] What a good ending.

Dan McCoy

[50:20] What a good ending.

[50:21] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[50:22] That's how you end a story, Stephen King.

[50:25] Or how you reach the high point in Event Horizon and then go downhill from there pretty much.

[50:31] Almost instantly.

Dan McCoy

[50:32] Maybe my favorite Stephen King short story and they're making it into a movie and I cannot understand how that is possible.

[50:39] Oh, they are?

[50:39] That's not going to be very good.

[50:40] Like what you do.

[50:41] Maybe it's a 60-minute adventure.

Stuart Wellington

[50:42] Who knows?

[50:44] I mean because it's basically all set up for a kid ripping his eyeballs out, right?

Elliott Kalan

[50:48] Yeah.

[50:48] I mean even 60 Minutes is stretching that story quite a bit.

[50:51] Yeah.

[50:52] A tight five maybe.

Stuart Wellington

[50:54] Yeah.

[50:56] I was going to say is Andy Rooney in that?

[51:00] I guess.

[51:00] I don't know what you mean.

[51:02] I'm not sure.

[51:02] Why not?

[51:04] Okay.

[51:05] See, it was on 60 Minutes.

[51:06] Yeah.

[51:06] That's the bit.

[51:06] Yeah.

[51:07] That's it.

[51:07] Yeah.

[51:08] That's the bit.

[51:08] Alex, just add more jokes to that.

[51:10] Add some laughs.

[51:11] Make sure everyone knows that.

[51:12] Maybe like a couple of spring and fart noises.

Dan McCoy

[51:16] Yeah.

[51:16] Put some sweet stuff on it.

Stuart Wellington

[51:17] Like a boing, boing, boing.

[51:19] Stuart, you were saying let's get serious.

[51:21] Enough jokes.

[51:22] Guys, I've fallen into my own trap of making more jokes.

[51:23] Let's get into serious stuff.

Elliott Kalan

[51:25] Alex, stop with the jokes and add in some serious sounds.

[51:27] Maybe a spooky organ or some kind of bump, bump, bump.

[51:30] Some soft weed.

[51:31] Thank you.

[51:32] Bye.

[51:32] Thank you.

[51:33] I want to be extra spooky.

[51:34] Maybe a lonesome owl somewhere.

Stuart Wellington

[51:35] Because there's nothing spookier than getting tricked by Jack Frost into holding onto a magical

[51:40] snow globe and being tricked into saying the exact words so that you enact the escape clause.

[51:45] Uh-oh.

[51:46] And at the last moment, Santa Claus realizes the enormity of what he's done.

[51:49] It all comes crashing down on him.

[51:51] And you see the look on his face.

[51:52] Tim Allen's performance.

[51:54] Oh, my Lord.

[51:54] It's amazing.

[51:55] Yeah.

[51:55] Where he realizes the weight of all of his transgressions.

[51:58] It hits him all at once.

[52:00] It's kind of like the end of Michael Clayton where he's riding in the back of that car and

[52:05] you just watch the emotions travel across his face.

[52:07] It's incredible.

[52:08] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[52:08] Now, I finally learned that, as the Bible says, the wages of sin is not being Santa Claus anymore.

Dan McCoy

[52:13] Dan, what were you going to say?

[52:14] Well, so we've pulled it back to the future here, right?

[52:16] We've changed the past.

[52:18] Yes.

[52:18] Funny you should say that.

[52:20] But I am confused by how time travel works in this because then we're back in present

[52:26] day of the movie.

[52:29] Tim Allen's life apparently has continued as it would have had he not been Santa in the

[52:34] meanwhile.

[52:35] Like, say he just was dreaming.

[52:38] And now he leaps back into that body.

[52:40] But now he has the memories and consciousness of having been Santa Claus.

[52:44] I do not understand what we are to believe here.

Elliott Kalan

[52:48] I think because he was trying – it's like in Time Cop.

[52:50] Where he manages to fix the timeline.

[52:52] He does the splits?

[52:53] And Santa does the splits.

[52:54] And you look at his butt.

[52:55] It's like in Time Cop where he saves the day, which means he now has a child whose name

[52:58] he doesn't know.

[52:59] And he's going to have to pretend he remembers everything about their life up to this point.

[53:03] Time travel is hard for the people doing the traveling.

[53:04] Alonzo, you time traveled.

[53:06] What were you going to say?

Alonso Duralde

[53:06] Well, yeah.

[53:07] I really don't like to talk about it.

[53:08] But what I think they're doing here, obviously, is this is the It's a Wonderful Life section.

[53:13] Yes.

[53:13] Yeah.

[53:13] So in the same way that George Bailey and arguably Clarence is the one person who knows the Bedford

[53:20] Falls version of all the awful people that he's encountering in Pottersville, Scott Calvin

[53:25] is now like, yes, possessed of the knowledge of having been Santa Claus, but also having

[53:30] continued his life, which means he forgot he knew it until now because he's somehow become

[53:37] more successful and more terrible and like ruined a bunch of people's lives.

[53:40] But now it's all rushing back to him.

[53:42] This movie is very baffling with that stuff.

[53:44] But it does bring me to why this movie is a flashback.

[53:48] Because I have a suspicion this was like a tight 88.

[53:51] And then somebody at Disney was like, you know, this gets a little dark and scary now where

[53:56] Scott is no longer Santa Claus, where Jack Frost is Santa Claus and he ruins Christmas and

[54:01] everybody's miserable.

[54:02] And the kid is like, you know, the wife is unhappy.

[54:06] Everybody's sad and terrible and awful.

[54:08] And I think they thought that children would be too wigged out by this part.

[54:12] They need the reassurance.

[54:13] Exactly.

[54:14] Of knowing that.

[54:14] If they know it's a flashback.

Dan McCoy

[54:15] She does not get eaten by the eels at this time.

Elliott Kalan

[54:18] Exactly.

[54:19] Yeah.

[54:20] That actually, that makes a lot of sense considering my kids definitely, they do not,

[54:24] it hasn't yet gotten into their bones yet.

[54:26] The thing we all know now going into stories where we're like, I know this kind of story,

[54:31] it's going to turn out okay.

[54:32] Like there's no way the story is going to end with Jack Frost being Santa forever and

[54:36] everyone's life being bad.

[54:37] But my kids, they, they haven't internalized yet and they get very anxious at the parts

[54:42] of movies where it looks like things are not going to turn out okay.

[54:44] So I get that.

Alonso Duralde

[54:45] I'm in no way a defender of the Santa Claus three.

[54:48] Oh, no, no, no, no.

Elliott Kalan

[54:49] But I just thought this thing, that there is a reason for it.

[54:53] That's serving a real plot.

[54:54] That's serving a real emotional needs of the audience purpose, which actually that thinking

[54:58] that, I admire that thinking quite a bit, that they, that they were looking at it from a

[55:02] kid's point of view and not an adult's point of view, since so much of this movie otherwise

[55:05] feels like it is from an adult's point of view.

[55:08] Yeah.

[55:08] Indeed.

Stuart Wellington

[55:09] So, yeah, as we said, enacting the escape clause sends Jack Frost and Scott back in time

[55:16] to the exact moment he became Santa Claus, what, 15 years ago, 13 years ago?

[55:20] Which means we see Santa Claus die at least twice in this movie.

[55:24] If you get off on that, oh boy, this is going to be great for you.

Elliott Kalan

[55:27] Get ready.

[55:28] You're going to be spent like Dan was after watching all the Santa Claus movies.

Stuart Wellington

[55:31] Yeah.

[55:32] And so, and this ends with Jack Frost taking the coat of Santa Claus, the mantle, and that

[55:38] sends them hurtling back into the future where, again, Scott is a successful but very lonely

[55:45] businessman whose personal life is in shambles.

[55:49] His ex-wife hates him.

[55:51] Judge Reinhold hates him because it forced his marriage to dissolve as well, all because he had

[55:58] to take care of Scott's son.

[56:01] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[56:01] It's kind of wild.

[56:02] It wrecked the father-son dynamic between Judge and the son.

[56:06] And that's shown by the most horrifying thing of all, that Scott's son doesn't want to spend

[56:12] time with his mom on Christmas Eve but wants to drive around with his friends.

[56:16] A terrifying dystopian vision of regular life as it is done by most teenagers, I suppose.

Stuart Wellington

[56:21] And speaking of terrifying visions, we see the North Pole has now been turned into like

[56:26] a G-rated Biffverse where Jack Frost, now Santa Claus, is flaunting his status.

[56:34] He has made everyone aware.

[56:36] He has, for some reason, he has turned Christmas, a time of joy, into this like entrepreneurial

[56:42] capitalist thing, which is wild.

[56:45] It's basically, he turned the North Pole into like FAO Schwartz.

[56:48] And there's like screaming reindeer and pens that record your voice.

Elliott Kalan

[56:54] It would take a monster of Jack Frost level to turn Christmas into this capitalist mercantile

[56:59] cash-only society.

[57:02] And it's like, you have to, and the one joke I thought was funny was, in this part was,

[57:06] other than the song, which I did enjoy, was Jack Frost over loudspeaker's voice.

Stuart Wellington

[57:09] And Jack Frost dressed up as like a weird hybrid of Jack Frost and Santa Claus, which is even

[57:14] more Guy Fieri than before.

[57:16] Oh, for sure.

Elliott Kalan

[57:17] Which makes me realize Guy Fieri is just Jack Frost and Santa Claus mixed into one person

[57:22] and he likes to eat crap.

[57:24] So, that Jack Frost is booming over the loudspeakers.

[57:29] Kids, make your parents buy you things.

[57:31] It shows how much they love you, which I think is just a funny, just them saying the subtext

[57:37] of Christmas.

Dan McCoy

[57:37] But I guess, is he, I mean, is he still giving out free toys?

[57:41] Are the free toys now a loss leader for getting people in the door at Christmas World?

[57:46] He does not give out free toys at all.

Alonso Duralde

[57:47] He only charges.

[57:48] Well, but he does charge people to be on the nice list.

[57:50] So, presumably, the reason you want to be on the nice list is to get the free toys.

[57:53] Oh, right.

[57:54] Is to get the free toys.

Stuart Wellington

[57:54] But I'm sure this is, I don't know, it allows you to edit your tweets.

[57:59] It allows you to get some kind of status, et cetera, et cetera.

[58:02] There's many reasons to be on the nice list.

Elliott Kalan

[58:04] You might be able to block not nice people, you know, and drive them off the thing.

Alonso Duralde

[58:08] Mind you, this is the Walt Disney Company telling you this.

[58:12] You know, the idea that like, let's talk about like parents having to buy crap

[58:15] for their kids.

[58:16] Yeah, you take your children to Disneyland and tell me how that goes.

[58:20] Oh, by the way.

Elliott Kalan

[58:20] It makes this the most, one of the most subversive things about the parent company

[58:25] that I've seen from a Disney movie.

[58:28] Since I was watching the old Lion King with my kids a while back and it was like when Ronat

[58:35] can start singing, it's a small world after all.

[58:38] And Scar goes, no, no, no.

[58:40] Like at that point, that was about as subversive as you could get in a Disney movie was admitting

[58:45] that that's an annoying song.

[58:46] You know.

[58:46] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[58:48] This is, you know, I mean the anti-capitalist message as hypocritical as it is, is maybe

[58:53] not a bad message.

[58:54] But speaking of weird messages in Santa Claus movies, I didn't talk about the fact that

[58:59] part of Santa Claus 2 was Santa blaming Elizabeth Mitchell, you know, that maybe Santa's son would

[59:10] be a better kid in her school if there were some Christmas decorations around the school.

[59:15] So like briefly becomes a suborn Christmas thing.

Elliott Kalan

[59:18] That is incorrect.

[59:20] It is.

[59:21] That is a bad message.

[59:22] I don't like that at all.

Alonso Duralde

[59:23] And he's still carrying that one through to the Santa Clauses on Disney Plus where he

[59:26] makes a joke about, oh, it's so problematic to wish somebody a Merry Christmas now.

[59:30] Yeah.

[59:31] What a surprise, Kurt Tim.

Elliott Kalan

[59:32] And it's funny that that joke is happening in a world where on Halloween fully, I think

[59:37] a third of the houses we went to said, happy Halloween, Merry Christmas.

[59:40] And it was like, are you kidding?

[59:42] Like not only do people still say Merry Christmas, they're saying it on a holiday that's almost

[59:46] two months before Christmas.

[59:48] Like it was, and my kids, that was the thing that, and that was the thing that bugged my

[59:51] kids.

[59:52] They were like, why is everyone telling us Merry Christmas?

[59:53] This is Halloween.

Alonso Duralde

[59:54] Because the Hallmark movies already started in late October, Elliot.

[59:58] So we're all in the, we're all in the thick of it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:00] Yeah.

[1:00:01] Okay.

[1:00:01] I mean, you more than that, you're like, you're like my busy season keeps creeping up

[1:00:04] earlier and earlier.

[1:00:05] Does it end?

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:07] So we do, this is when Jack Frost does put on a very solid parody of New York, New York.

[1:00:12] This is pretty funny.

[1:00:13] It's great.

[1:00:14] This is very funny.

[1:00:14] Martin Short sells it.

[1:00:16] For sure.

[1:00:16] As only, yeah.

[1:00:17] And then Scott manages to sabotage the performance.

[1:00:20] He causes a big distraction.

[1:00:22] He somehow gets the globe into Jack's hands.

[1:00:25] And then he plays a recording of Jack saying the exact words to escape, to enact the escape

[1:00:30] clause.

[1:00:30] This has taken maybe 10 minutes of movie time.

[1:00:33] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:33] I want to.

[1:00:34] Yeah.

[1:00:34] This, this dystopian world where he is not Santa Claus.

[1:00:37] I was flabbergasted by how little time this takes in the movie.

[1:00:40] But Dan, you were going to say.

Dan McCoy

[1:00:41] Well, there are multiple things.

[1:00:42] One of them is along the lines of that.

[1:00:43] As Alonzo points out, yes, this is the, it's a wonderful life thing.

[1:00:46] And granted, it's a wonderful life.

[1:00:48] Also.

[1:00:49] That's true.

[1:00:49] Only has the dystopia at the very end of the movie for a much shorter time than everyone

[1:00:53] remembers.

[1:00:54] But the rest of the movie is filled with like a beautiful portrait of George Bailey's life.

[1:01:00] Whereas this movie, up until the point that plot takes in.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:03] And it's not called, it's not called, it's a wonderful life, Pottersville.

[1:01:06] Like this is called the Santa Claus 3, the escape clause.

[1:01:08] Yeah.

[1:01:08] And the escape clause is barely in the movie.

[1:01:09] But sorry, Dan, you were going to say.

Dan McCoy

[1:01:10] No, it's just like this movie is an experiment of like, what if we make the whole movie out of

[1:01:13] the padding?

[1:01:14] But also.

[1:01:17] I just like Santa Claus, Tim Allen tells his like, his exes and new husband's like daughter,

[1:01:26] Lucy, to steal the snow globe for him while he creates a distraction.

[1:01:31] I found that very upsetting where he's like enlisting the small child to do his dirty work.

[1:01:36] You do the dangerous part.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:38] And I'm going to hog the spotlight and turn this into the Jack Frost stunt show.

[1:01:42] Yeah.

[1:01:43] While you go do all the hard part.

Dan McCoy

[1:01:45] But also then like, apparently, I guess it doesn't matter that Jack Frost said the words

[1:01:51] and was holding the globe at two different times.

[1:01:53] As long as he plays a recording of it, it's fine.

[1:01:57] They just need proof that he, you know, he could have said the words.

[1:02:00] I don't know.

[1:02:00] This felt like a real cheat to me.

[1:02:01] Dan's like, lawyer up, Scott.

Alonso Duralde

[1:02:03] That's like if Mr. McEspeltec played a recording backwards of Superman saying his own name or

[1:02:10] something.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:11] Yeah.

[1:02:12] Yeah.

[1:02:12] Actually, why hasn't Superman ever done that?

[1:02:13] That would solve the whole problem instantly.

[1:02:15] He should just carry around a tape recorder and just play it back.

[1:02:18] But you're right.

[1:02:19] It's I don't think it would hold up in in Claus Court.

[1:02:22] Santa's got a lawsuit on his hands now.

[1:02:24] But and just imagine how different it would be now making this movie when you can just

[1:02:28] have an AI have have Jack Frost voice say whatever you want and just feed it in.

[1:02:33] OK.

[1:02:33] Deep fake.

[1:02:34] Deep fake him.

[1:02:34] Yeah.

[1:02:35] Make a video of it.

[1:02:36] So the snow globe was like, well, I saw it and heard it.

[1:02:38] Yeah.

[1:02:38] You're not Santa anymore.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:40] So we go back in time again.

[1:02:42] Luckily, it's not going to hurt your brains too much because the previous Jack Frost Santa

[1:02:46] Claus thing that was there, that's not there.

[1:02:49] OK, so it's just this current version of Jack Frost and Scott.

[1:02:53] But I guess we get to see Santa die again.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:55] Time travel splits off a new a new timeline each time.

[1:02:58] That's why there's that's why Kang is after the snow globe.

[1:03:00] Yeah, that makes sense.

[1:03:01] I imagine or something.

[1:03:02] Yeah.

[1:03:02] But sorry, Stuart.

Stuart Wellington

[1:03:03] So, of course, this time Scott manages to put the coat on and he is Santa Claus again

[1:03:11] in like less than 10 minutes of movie time.

[1:03:13] They get zapped back to the future.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:15] How crazy would it be if they went back and the other Jack Frost and Santa were there

[1:03:18] and Santa was like, I've got to kill them all.

[1:03:20] You can't have all these extras running around.

Stuart Wellington

[1:03:23] And each time they he kills when he gets stronger.

[1:03:26] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:26] Yeah.

[1:03:27] Yeah.

[1:03:27] And he gets Jack Frost power, I guess, that way.

[1:03:29] But unfortunately, makes a rookie mistake.

[1:03:31] He buries them under the snow.

[1:03:32] That's going to melt.

[1:03:33] In warm weather, those bodies show up.

[1:03:35] Uh-oh.

[1:03:36] You're in tea rubs.

[1:03:37] Although by then, I guess he's at the North Pole.

[1:03:39] No extradition treaty.

[1:03:40] Benoit Blanc shows up.

[1:03:40] Looks like I just suckered the...

Stuart Wellington

[1:03:41] There can be only one.

[1:03:45] Glass snow globe.

[1:03:47] Yep.

[1:03:47] So, yeah, that's a good name.

[1:03:49] So, he makes up to his wife.

[1:03:51] He explains to Ms. Claus what happened, I guess.

[1:03:54] And then he decides he reveals the SOS.

[1:03:57] That's right.

[1:03:58] Secret of Santa to his in-laws.

[1:04:00] And we get to see Alan Arkin deliver the most berserk monologue of his career.

Dan McCoy

[1:04:04] I love it because they have a fixed camera on Alan Arkin.

[1:04:10] They're like, he'll just sell this.

[1:04:12] And he's funny because he's Alan Arkin, but he also looks so bored.

[1:04:15] Like he's doing the lowest wattage version of his already low watt persona of like, what?

[1:04:21] Santa?

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:24] He's putting the pieces together, Batman the movie from 1966 style, where it's like, yeah,

[1:04:29] yeah, toys, sure.

[1:04:31] And if this is, so this must be the North Pole.

[1:04:35] And that toy shop.

[1:04:36] So, who makes toys around the North Pole?

[1:04:38] Oh, you're Santa.

[1:04:39] Like it's, he's led to it.

[1:04:42] It's literally the movie being like, show's almost over, folks.

[1:04:45] Let's wrap it up.

[1:04:45] Come on.

[1:04:46] Let's just do this.

Dan McCoy

[1:04:46] Well, I just felt like there's like, told Alan Arkin to improvise this realization and

[1:04:51] just let the camera run.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:53] To be fair, he is one of the legendary improvisers.

[1:04:55] I mean, he's a founder of the Compass Players.

[1:04:59] He's terrific.

Dan McCoy

[1:05:00] They're like, just keep the camera rolling.

Alonso Duralde

[1:05:02] Stretch.

[1:05:03] Stretch figuring it out.

[1:05:06] And by the way, Anne Margaret, screen legend, is like, her role could have been played here

[1:05:11] by like a vacuum cleaner.

[1:05:14] Like she has given nothing to do.

[1:05:16] I'm delighted to see her, but she is not used to it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:18] And she looks fantastic.

[1:05:21] It looks like she hasn't aged a day since Grumpy Old Men, which was like 12 years before

[1:05:24] this or something like that.

[1:05:26] Like, you know, but it's, yeah, they give her very little to do.

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:28] I'm hoping she and Alan Arkin got to like have fun and catch up and talk about stuff.

[1:05:32] Yeah.

[1:05:32] The lunches, I'm sure, were, you know, it was great.

[1:05:35] Talking about Mike Nichols together.

[1:05:36] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:36] She does get to sing.

[1:05:38] She gets to sing, I think, three lines of what the, that Mel Torme Christmas song,

[1:05:44] the Chestnuts Roping.

[1:05:44] The Christmas song.

[1:05:46] Christmas song.

[1:05:47] Yeah, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:05:47] I call it.

[1:05:47] The most uninventive title.

[1:05:49] This is it.

[1:05:50] It's the Christmas song.

[1:05:52] Are you, are you sure there's a lot of Christmas songs?

[1:05:55] No.

[1:05:55] This is the one.

[1:05:57] Famously, so many Christmas, they have a whole, it's a whole genre.

[1:06:02] They have a name for it.

[1:06:03] No, no.

Stuart Wellington

[1:06:05] So all of the magical legendary figures show up.

[1:06:08] Jack Frost faces justice for his crimes and he receives a magical hug that turns him into

[1:06:13] a fucking nerd and unfreezes the Frozen family in the aforementioned very cheap looking scene of Judge Reinhold and the actress who plays his wife unfreezing.

[1:06:25] Now, obviously, this is a case where we're talking about digital animators probably working under a time crunch with no money, but it looks very laughably bad.

Dan McCoy

[1:06:35] Judge, the ex-wife, long career, nothing like that really jumped out at me other than she was also Harrison Ford's wife in Air Force One.

[1:06:46] Wendy Crewson is her name.

[1:06:47] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:06:48] Okay, and then Mrs. Claus has the baby and everyone's happy, end of the movie.

[1:06:52] Yay.

[1:06:53] Did I miss anything, guys?

[1:06:55] No, that was Santa Claus 3.

[1:06:58] Exhausting.

[1:06:58] It was.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:00] For the first time in a flop house in a long time movie, I checked for bloops and there were bloops.

[1:07:05] Oh, yeah, that's right.

[1:07:06] There were bloops.

Dan McCoy

[1:07:07] There were bloops of the Easter bunny hitting on Anne-Margret.

[1:07:12] And look, I cannot blame that bunny.

[1:07:14] There were other bloops too, but there were plenty of that, yeah.

[1:07:17] It was like, I don't think that the makers of this movie have acknowledged how weird it is that a large human-sized bunny man is hitting on Anne-Margret right now.

Alonso Duralde

[1:07:27] It seemed like a good idea on the set, but then later we were like, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:30] There's the moment where he's helping out and he's hopping along and he goes, oh, those pellets behind me, I'll clean those up.

[1:07:35] And I'm like, I don't want to joke in this about the Easter bunny shitting all over the floor of the factory, but that's not okay.

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:41] And based on his size, those pellets have to be huge.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:45] They would be, I mean, they'd be the size of ostrich eggs.

[1:07:47] Yeah.

[1:07:49] Soccer balls.

[1:07:49] Horrible.

[1:07:50] The size of a giant squid's eye.

[1:07:51] Like, horrible.

[1:07:52] But the bloops really gave me the idea that Tim Allen was kind of like the king of that set and was just kind of doing whatever he, I don't know.

[1:08:00] I didn't, I don't know what, maybe I'm reading again too much of this, but it felt like there was a real power imbalance in some of those bloops.

[1:08:06] But anyway.

Dan McCoy

[1:08:08] All right.

[1:08:09] Well, now, you know, what we do, we judge it.

[1:08:11] We give our final judgments.

Elliott Kalan

[1:08:12] We don't just judge it, we reinhold it.

Dan McCoy

[1:08:14] Yeah.

[1:08:16] Was this a good, bad movie, a bad, bad movie, a movie you kind of like.

[1:08:21] I want to put this in context for myself.

[1:08:25] The first Santa Claus is.

[1:08:28] Where does it fit into your life's journey?

[1:08:29] The first Santa Claus is a weird, sour movie in a way that you may not recall and has a lot of stuff that I don't like about, you know, making fun of the new dad.

[1:08:43] Forget about the therapy stuff, just like for the health of your son, he's not treating Judge Reinhold very well.

[1:08:50] But, but it works kind of in spite of itself.

[1:08:53] It has a clear premise and, you know, by the end, sure, fine, whatever, the Santa Claus.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:00] What you're saying is not since, not since Judge Reinhold was walked in on while masturbating.

[1:09:05] Has he been this embarrassed on screen?

Dan McCoy

[1:09:06] Exactly.

[1:09:07] Santa Claus 2 actually is probably my choice for if you're watching it ironically because it, despite it being the longest one, it kind of moves more sprightly than this one did.

[1:09:24] And it has some really wackadoodle stuff in it that you're like, why is this in a Santa Claus movie?

[1:09:33] But I still honestly might give this a marginal good bad.

[1:09:37] It's just so dumb and bright and it doesn't stick around that long.

[1:09:43] And it's really just a bunch of stuff that happens.

[1:09:45] It's amazing how little narrative.

[1:09:47] I think all movies are just a bunch of stuff that happens.

[1:09:48] No, but this is like has no, like, usually the stuff has some relation to the stuff that came before it.

[1:09:54] Whereas this just seems to be like jumbled stuff.

[1:09:58] But I kind of still dug it as a bad movie.

[1:10:01] But what do you guys have to say?

[1:10:02] Stuart, what do you think?

Stuart Wellington

[1:10:03] I'm going to say it's a bad, bad movie.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:06] I mean, it obviously.

[1:10:08] I just saw Dan's self-regard crumble when you said that.

Stuart Wellington

[1:10:11] No, but I mean, like, there's a certain, I don't know, like, it's, like, it's, I'll hopefully forget that I ever saw it.

[1:10:20] I mean, it's just so, like, slim and, like, silly and kind of just slides off the brain, right?

[1:10:28] Slim and silly sounds great to me.

[1:10:30] I don't know.

[1:10:31] Like, I mean, maybe if I had seen the previous installments, it would have, like, it would have captured the magic for me.

[1:10:38] I do want to point out, you guys just came up with.

[1:10:39] You guys just came up with.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:40] You guys just came up with two great Stephen King bad guy names, Jumble Stuff and Slim and Silly.

[1:10:48] Yes.

[1:10:50] I'm also going to say a bad, bad.

[1:10:52] I think, frankly, if your kids love Christmas, you could sit them in front of this movie and leave the room and they'd be fine.

[1:11:00] But I think it's not worth a grown-up watching both either for genuine enjoyment or insincere, ironic enjoyment.

[1:11:08] There's just, there's so much, there's so much other, even Christmas stuff that you could watch for those kinds of enjoyments.

[1:11:14] It does, it really feels like a movie that, where everyone's kind of, everyone except maybe Tim Allen is going through the motions.

[1:11:21] And he seems to really like playing Santa Claus some of the time and other times not really enjoy it.

[1:11:28] And I kind of would rather watch a documentary about the making of the Santa Claus 3 that was like really open and on, like the some kind of monster about the Santa Claus 3.

[1:11:37] Like I'd like to see that more than I'd like to watch the movie.

[1:11:40] Alonso, what about you?

[1:11:41] You've seen every Christmas movie.

[1:11:42] How does this stack up for you?

Alonso Duralde

[1:11:44] Believe me, I'm still working my way through.

[1:11:47] It is a giant genre as, just like songs.

[1:11:50] And there is, thankfully, no one has made the Christmas movie yet, but I'm sure they will one of these days.

[1:11:55] I think this is a bad, bad movie.

[1:11:58] I think the first one is a lot of fun.

[1:12:00] And I mean, yes, it is kind of, you know, I'd say it's maybe one of the best of the kids' movies about an overworked, you know, middle manager.

[1:12:10] But this one is just, is so frenetic.

[1:12:14] Like, like this, it's one of those films where you can tell, like, okay, we're going to lose the kids if we don't pack every second with, like, noise and things falling down and, you know, like running around crazy.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:27] There's so many cartoon sound effects.

[1:12:29] Yes.

[1:12:30] Dubbed into scenes, like, boing, thump, cram.

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:32] If that's your intention, I mean, hiring Martin Short was the right call because he is great at doing that.

[1:12:40] Like, constantly doing stuff.

Alonso Duralde

[1:12:42] Yeah, and the thing is, like, I mean, I love Martin Short, but I think so much of, you know, the thing that he brings to a project, it does ultimately kind of come down to the material.

[1:12:52] And so, like, he's giving all the Martin Short sauce that you want, but in the service of a really dumb script, I think.

[1:13:00] And so, yeah, I think this is, you know, we talk about, like, threequels as being, like, where the fatigue is really setting in.

[1:13:07] And this one, it's kind of like, where else is there left to go for this franchise?

[1:13:12] Of course, you know, joke's on me.

[1:13:14] It's a TV show now.

[1:13:15] TV show, that's the only answer.

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:17] They decided to add even more material.

[1:13:18] I mean, it really, this is a strange moral to take from the Santa Claus 3, the escape clause, but it makes me even more enamored of the recent Planet of the Apes trilogy,

[1:13:27] which managed to, like, kind of up the ante with each movie in an exciting way.

[1:13:31] You know.

Stuart Wellington

[1:13:32] Yeah, how many other third movie in a series is still good?

[1:13:37] I mean, there's that.

[1:13:38] There's the Evil Dead movies.

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:39] Ninja 3, The Domination.

[1:13:41] Yeah, sure.

[1:13:42] I mean, well, that's what they finally realized what they were doing.

[1:13:43] Halloween 3, Season of the Witch.

[1:13:45] Sure.

[1:13:46] Yeah, Ninja Turtles 3, Turtles in Time.

[1:13:48] Yeah, of course.

[1:13:49] Yeah.

Alonso Duralde

[1:13:54] I'm Iffy Wadiwe, the host of Maximum Film.

[1:13:56] I'm Alonzo Duraldi, also the host of Maximum Film.

S5

[1:13:59] And I'm Drea Clark, yet another host of Maximum Film.

[1:14:03] Every week, we hosts Huddle Up.

Alonso Duralde

[1:14:05] Usually with an illustrious guest.

[1:14:07] And we talk about films.

S5

[1:14:08] We have film news.

Alonso Duralde

[1:14:10] We have film quizzes.

S5

[1:14:11] We answer your film questions.

Alonso Duralde

[1:14:14] It's like the maximum amount of film talk.

[1:14:17] That's why we call it Maximum Film.

S5

[1:14:21] Film.

[1:14:22] Maximum Film, the movie podcast that's not just a bunch of straight white guys.

[1:14:26] New episodes weekly on MaximumFun.org.

[1:14:30] It could happen to you.

[1:14:32] You're all grown up now.

[1:14:34] A professional adult with diverse interests and hobbies.

[1:14:37] And one of those hobbies is video games.

[1:14:40] You just can't help it.

[1:14:41] They're so good now.

Dan McCoy

[1:14:42] If that's you, we're here to tell you, you are completely normal.

S5

[1:14:46] I'm Maddie Myers.

Dan McCoy

[1:14:48] I'm Jason Schreier.

[1:14:49] And I'm Kirk Hamilton.

[1:14:50] And together, we form TripleClick.

[1:14:52] A podcast about video games.

S5

[1:14:54] If you think you might be a person who likes video games, we hope you'll give TripleClick a listen.

Dan McCoy

[1:14:59] TripleClick.

[1:14:59] New episodes every Thursday on Maximum Fun.

[1:15:05] Our show today is sponsored by microdose gummies.

[1:15:09] Microdose gummies deliver perfect entry-level doses of THC that help you feel just the right amount of good.

[1:15:16] You've probably heard about microdosing.

[1:15:18] Lots of people are doing it, including this guy, Dan McCoy, who has tried the microdose gummies from Lumi Labs.

[1:15:24] I've used them and enjoyed them.

[1:15:26] And they have helped me relax, sleep, sort of just be generally kinder towards the world.

[1:15:35] Hey, microdose is available nationwide.

[1:15:38] To learn more about microdosing THC, go to microdose.com and use code FLOP.

[1:15:42] That's F-L-O-P to get free shipping and 30% off your first order.

[1:15:48] Links can be found in the show description.

[1:15:50] But again, that's microdose.com.

[1:15:53] Code FLOP.

[1:15:54] Thank you, Dan.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:56] We are also sponsored by HelloFresh.

[1:15:59] That's right.

[1:15:59] It's that time of the year.

[1:16:00] Time to cozy up and save money by cooking at home.

[1:16:04] Come on, restaurants.

[1:16:05] We can do what you do.

[1:16:07] This is the perfect time to experience the delicious taste and unparalleled convenience of HelloFresh.

[1:16:12] If you're not familiar with HelloFresh, here's what you do.

[1:16:13] You subscribe to it.

[1:16:14] Check save money off of your holiday to-do list, and that's it.

[1:16:18] Well, maybe I should explain a little bit more.

[1:16:20] HelloFresh sends you the ingredients you need in the mail to make great meals.

[1:16:26] I've used it myself.

[1:16:28] My family has really enjoyed it.

[1:16:30] I've really enjoyed the food.

[1:16:32] The ingredients do come fresh.

[1:16:34] They taste really good, and they help someone like me who does not like cooking and also hates measuring things to get the best out of my kitchen instead of throwing away money on the food services industry.

[1:16:45] You know what I'm talking about, Stuart.

[1:16:47] Food and drink services.

[1:16:48] No thanks.

[1:16:48] Who needs them?

[1:16:49] HelloFresh is 25% cheaper than takeout and less expensive than grocery shopping, and it offers vegan recipes on the menu every week.

[1:16:58] It's made without animal products of any kind.

[1:17:00] It does, and you can enjoy meals like sweet chili tofu bowls or spicy coconut curry stir fry.

[1:17:05] I, of course, go for the meat ones, but that's okay.

[1:17:08] That's the thing about HelloFresh is you can choose the kind of thing that you want to make.

[1:17:11] So, it saved me time.

[1:17:13] It saved me effort.

[1:17:14] It saved me money.

[1:17:15] And look at me now.

[1:17:16] I'm a happier, healthier, stronger, smarter man with more time for my family and more time to do the things that I love.

[1:17:24] So, if you want to be like me, just like Dan and his micro gummies, if you want to be like me, go to HelloFresh.com slash Flop65.

[1:17:30] That's F-L-O-P-6-5.

[1:17:33] And use the code FLOP65 for 65% off plus free shipping.

[1:17:38] That's HelloFresh.com slash FLOP65 and code FLOP65 for 65% off plus free shipping.

[1:17:47] It's already cheaper than going to a restaurant, and now it's even cheaper than that.

[1:17:50] HelloFresh.com slash FLOP65 with the code FLOP65.

Stuart Wellington

[1:17:55] And we also have a, yeah, we also have a Jumbotron today.

Dan McCoy

[1:18:01] Jumbotron, Tron, Tron.

Stuart Wellington

[1:18:03] And this message is from Wright, Nate, Orion, Josh, and Targris.

[1:18:09] And they say,

[1:18:11] Dear Stu, we're commandeering the voice of your fave flopper to wish you a very merry holiday name withheld and a happy 2023.

[1:18:23] We know that it's been a hard year, but you're a delight to be around, and we love you as much as you love elves and the calendar of Harptos.

[1:18:32] And that's a lot.

[1:18:35] What a lovely message.

[1:18:37] That is very sweet.

Dan McCoy

[1:18:38] I like it.

[1:18:38] You put a lot of energy into that.

[1:18:40] I like it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:40] Yeah.

[1:18:41] It's as sweet as it is incomprehensible to me.

Dan McCoy

[1:18:45] Yeah.

[1:18:46] Happy holidays to you, recipients.

[1:18:51] And you.

[1:18:52] And you.

[1:18:53] Stu.

[1:18:56] You know, a thing that we do on this podcast is answer letters from listeners.

[1:19:02] Yeah, why not?

[1:19:03] Why don't we jump into that just for a change?

[1:19:05] Let's do it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:19:06] Let's do it.

[1:19:07] Grip it and rip it.

[1:19:07] That's what I say.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:09] I don't say that.

[1:19:10] But yeah, you don't want to rip it and then grip it because it's just harder to grip something that's ripped.

[1:19:14] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:19:15] Yeah.

[1:19:16] This first one is from Alan Lastday Withheld who writes.

[1:19:19] Smithy.

[1:19:20] Arkin.

[1:19:20] If.

[1:19:21] Oh.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:22] Right.

[1:19:23] Have you seen my movie The Santa Claus 3?

[1:19:25] No.

[1:19:26] I'm really proud of the work I did.

[1:19:27] I take issue with you saying it's your movie, Alan Arkin.

Alonso Duralde

[1:19:28] I don't blame him for withholding.

Dan McCoy

[1:19:31] If you had a sandwich named after you, as many celebs eventually do, what would you want it to be?

[1:19:37] Bonus points if I can make and take it to work to eat and or bug you on Twitter about my attempts to recreate them.

[1:19:43] Many thanks.

[1:19:44] Alan Lastday Withheld.

[1:19:46] Alan, I'm not.

[1:19:47] You know, here's what.

[1:19:48] Here's the thing.

[1:19:49] I'm not going to try and make it about my personality.

[1:19:52] I'm just going to give you what I think will be a good sandwich.

[1:19:54] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:55] That's what he's asking for.

[1:19:57] All right.

[1:19:58] You're kind of challenging him in a way that is not a challenge.

[1:20:01] The Dan McCoy.

[1:20:01] Yeah.

[1:20:02] What's the Dan McCoy on me?

Dan McCoy

[1:20:03] You're going to blow my fucking socks off.

[1:20:04] Okay.

[1:20:05] You're going to get a little like ciabatta roll, like sort of a mid-sized one.

[1:20:10] You're going to slice that up.

[1:20:11] Maybe toast a little.

[1:20:13] Maybe.

[1:20:13] Fuck it.

[1:20:14] Put some.

[1:20:15] Hey, you're the boss.

[1:20:16] Put some olive tapenade on it.

[1:20:19] You lost me.

[1:20:20] Some prosciutto.

[1:20:22] Okay.

[1:20:23] I'm back.

[1:20:24] Some arugula.

[1:20:26] No thanks.

[1:20:28] Maybe a little like sprinkling of balsamic vinegar or some lemon juice to get some acid in there.

[1:20:36] And hey, you can throw a little bit of provolone on there if you want.

[1:20:42] I like that you're giving so many options.

[1:20:44] You're not directing people.

[1:20:46] It sounds like a treat.

[1:20:46] It's not a command.

[1:20:47] This is a family of sandwich that is sort of like it's customizable.

[1:20:52] It's like the Mr. Potato Head sandwich.

Elliott Kalan

[1:20:55] Which normally is just a piece of bread, a Mr. Potato Head, and then another piece of bread.

[1:20:59] Not a satisfying sandwich.

Stuart Wellington

[1:21:00] Oh, yeah.

[1:21:01] So, man, obviously, if you're going to do a sandwich based on me, you probably want it to be tied in with a lot of what I like to eat, right?

[1:21:09] You want to think you're eating like a steward.

[1:21:11] So, let's see.

[1:21:13] We're going to start with a layer of almonds.

[1:21:16] Protein shake.

[1:21:17] Yep.

[1:21:17] Then a hearty scoop of protein powder on that shit.

[1:21:20] Vegan protein powder.

[1:21:21] Can't handle the lactose.

[1:21:24] Then a couple of dried mangoes on top.

[1:21:27] A schmear of almond butter.

[1:21:29] And then, let's see.

[1:21:31] I don't eat a lot of bread anymore.

[1:21:34] But if I were, I would probably sandwich all that between two slices of a toasted blueberry bagel, I think.

[1:21:42] Yep.

Dan McCoy

[1:21:43] Wait.

[1:21:44] Okay.

[1:21:45] Interesting.

[1:21:46] So, a blueberry bagel.

[1:21:47] You got a lot less healthy at the end.

[1:21:49] I got it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:21:49] Yeah, I don't know.

[1:21:50] I don't eat a lot of bread.

[1:21:51] Is that not healthy for you?

[1:21:52] Should I say that?

[1:21:53] And just cover the whole thing with maple syrup.

[1:21:54] Just cover it with maple syrup.

[1:21:56] Should I wrap it all up in like a lettuce wrap or something, Dan?

[1:22:00] And you just wrap it in fruit roll-ups.

[1:22:02] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:22:05] What you want to do is you're going to freeze some sheet lard.

[1:22:10] Oh, wow.

[1:22:11] Turn it around.

Stuart Wellington

[1:22:12] I guess you can do that.

[1:22:13] Okay.

[1:22:13] Pineapple rings.

[1:22:15] Yeah, that's two sandwiches out of the way.

[1:22:17] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[1:22:19] With the Elliot Kalin, you got two options.

[1:22:22] I mean, the sandwich I go to now usually is a pastrami sandwich, but that's kind of boring.

[1:22:26] There's already a name for that.

[1:22:27] It's probably called the Sid Caesar or something like that.

[1:22:28] So, when I was – the sandwich I would get for lunch when I worked at The Daily Show,

[1:22:34] I'd get turkey pastrami with pickles on it.

[1:22:37] And then I would have them toast the bread so it would not be totally mushy.

[1:22:41] That's a simple sandwich.

[1:22:42] That's fine.

[1:22:42] Even simpler.

[1:22:43] The sandwich that I would have as a child where it's just Hebrew national salami on bread.

[1:22:49] That's all you have to do.

[1:22:50] Just like the original Earl of Sandwich said, just give me a piece of meat with some bread on it.

[1:22:54] Make it Hebrew national salami.

[1:22:55] No other kind of salami will do.

[1:22:57] And you're not going to be able to find it at a lot of places.

[1:22:59] So, that's why I'm calling this the hidden Elliot Kalin sandwich.

[1:23:02] You got to find a place that serves the right kind of salami.

[1:23:05] Alonso, what about you?

Alonso Duralde

[1:23:06] So, yeah, I was like – I was thinking, well, the sandwich that I usually get at a deli is already at a deli.

[1:23:11] So, I don't need to – you know.

[1:23:12] So, like if I wanted to make up something that was going to have my name on it,

[1:23:15] this would not be like an easy take-to-work sandwich.

[1:23:18] But it would be a great make-it-for-me-in-a-kitchen restaurant,

[1:23:22] especially because now your kitchen is going to smell like this and not mine.

[1:23:25] It would be fried bologna with Swiss cheese melting between the pieces of the fried bologna while they're hot.

[1:23:33] Oh, wow.

[1:23:34] On toasted Texas toast with a thick slather of Duke's mayonnaise and maybe some red onion.

Dan McCoy

[1:23:43] Oh, wow.

[1:23:43] That sounds good.

[1:23:45] Oh, that sounds like four delicious sandwiches you could eat.

Alonso Duralde

[1:23:49] I've waited a lifetime for somebody to ask me what my celebrity sandwich would be, though.

[1:23:53] So, thank you, Alan.

[1:23:55] Last name withheld.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:56] I mean I love that you put so much thought into not just what's on it but how you would assemble it

[1:24:01] and like that you're interlacing the cheese with the meat and everything like that.

[1:24:05] Oh, yeah, because that's how it gets all melty.

[1:24:06] It's great.

[1:24:07] Yeah, yeah.

[1:24:08] It's like the people who got mad at Subway because they weren't layering the stuff on the sandwich

[1:24:14] in the way that made the best use of the surface area.

Dan McCoy

[1:24:16] And they had a big campaign to have them tessellate the stuff they were putting on the sandwiches.

Stuart Wellington

[1:24:21] Yeah, that was the biggest PR issue Subway's ever had, right?

Elliott Kalan

[1:24:24] It was the biggest.

[1:24:25] Subway otherwise has had a sterling brand.

[1:24:27] Smooth sailing.

[1:24:28] No issues with themselves or their spokespeople.

Stuart Wellington

[1:24:30] Bread that smells artificial and tastes worse.

Elliott Kalan

[1:24:33] Made from the stuff that's in yoga mats.

Dan McCoy

[1:24:36] I mean you're talking to two people who used to work in an office that was right…

[1:24:40] Next to a subway.

[1:24:41] Yeah, like above a subway.

[1:24:43] Like basically.

[1:24:43] I mean in New York we're all about subways, right?

Elliott Kalan

[1:24:46] Yeah.

[1:24:46] That's a good point.

[1:24:47] Yeah.

[1:24:47] It's just…

[1:24:47] Yeah.

[1:24:48] Ah!

[1:24:48] But it is funny to have a spokesman who's like, I lost a lot of weight eating Subway sandwiches.

[1:24:53] Like, yeah, you could take a couple bites and then throw it away because you don't want

[1:24:56] more of it.

Alonso Duralde

[1:24:57] The prospect of not eating suddenly seems more attractive.

Elliott Kalan

[1:25:00] Anyway, so this episode is brought to you by Subway.

[1:25:02] Whoa!

[1:25:03] Oh, fuck!

Dan McCoy

[1:25:05] We have another letter.

[1:25:07] It's from Eli Lasting withheld.

[1:25:09] Eli Roth.

[1:25:10] Hopefully it's not Eli Lilly.

[1:25:11] Who writes…

[1:25:12] Hello…

Elliott Kalan

[1:25:13] Anyway, this episode is also brought to you by Eli Lilly.

[1:25:16] Oh, no.

[1:25:17] Hello, peaches.

Dan McCoy

[1:25:19] Last night my wife and I decided to watch So I Married an Axe Murderer on Tubi for the

[1:25:25] first time in some 25 years to see if it lived up to our memories.

[1:25:29] Probably not.

[1:25:29] And a couple of things really stood out.

[1:25:32] First of all, it was very heavily set in San Francisco with all of the cliched sights

[1:25:37] and neither of us remembered this.

[1:25:39] But more importantly, it came in at a tight 133, which I think is due to the use of not

[1:25:45] one but two montages to yada yada yada over all the relationship developments.

[1:25:51] Which leads me to my question.

[1:25:53] Are movies longer these days because these cheesy montages have gone out of style?

[1:26:00] I don't think that's why movies are longer.

[1:26:03] But I also don't have a better answer.

Elliott Kalan

[1:26:05] You just saw Avatar yesterday, right?

[1:26:08] So why is that movie so long?

[1:26:10] Is it because there's no montages of them?

[1:26:12] I assume training to ride fish, flying fish or something, you know?

Dan McCoy

[1:26:17] Well, I mean, they do train to ride flying fish, but it's not a montage.

Stuart Wellington

[1:26:21] I mean, I was just watching the first one yesterday to prepare for learning the way of water.

[1:26:27] And there were a ton of montages in that one, too.

Dan McCoy

[1:26:31] Yeah, there's montages.

[1:26:32] Not a critique.

[1:26:33] Not of the same kind of type that I think that are being talked about here where it's like literally like a pop song plays.

[1:26:41] And there's one scene of like, you know, someone getting something on their nose and laughing about it.

[1:26:47] Or like skipping by the water or whatever the fuck they do in movies.

Alonso Duralde

[1:26:53] It's hard to answer that question in December because all the movies are really long now because it's award season.

[1:27:00] And, you know, it's like you are not going to be taken seriously if you are under 215.

[1:27:05] The Academy won't even look at you, you know.

Elliott Kalan

[1:27:07] I was watching – I watched Tar the other night.

[1:27:10] That's a long one, right?

[1:27:11] It's a long one.

[1:27:12] And there was part of me that was like, I don't know if we needed so many scenes of her pulling her suitcase from one place to another.

[1:27:16] But at the same time, it provides kind of a little breather between the scenes of her being a horribly abusive person.

Dan McCoy

[1:27:22] Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't argue against the length in Tar because I think that that is all sort of –

[1:27:28] Yes.

[1:27:29] Cumulative effect.

[1:27:30] Like part of the effect is – I wouldn't even argue against it in the way of water probably.

[1:27:36] I mean, it's a little long.

[1:27:37] I would say that there's –

[1:27:39] But that builds up so much like care for the characters before they get into the final –

[1:27:44] Like that's the thing that even though way of water is like – I liked it a lot.

Elliott Kalan

[1:27:50] It's just – it's a tight 184 minutes.

Dan McCoy

[1:27:53] I liked it a lot.

[1:27:54] It's still like one of – it's lower down on my like list of Cameron films.

[1:27:58] But I still liked it.

[1:27:59] But James Cameron still has the ability to like –

[1:28:02] Everything he's doing is to make you really like want to hiss the villains and cheer at the end.

[1:28:08] Like the payoff is good.

[1:28:10] I would say that in general, movies are probably longer because I would guess that a lot of it has to do with now they feel like, oh, we got to give people their money's worth.

[1:28:19] Like the way that streaming is so big now.

[1:28:21] They're like, we have to make this a movie.

[1:28:23] We have to make it worth your time.

Elliott Kalan

[1:28:25] Well, that's what I was going to say is partly movie tickets have gotten so expensive and it's so much effort to go to the movies now if you have anything –

[1:28:32] Like if you're a Dan McCoy or a Stuart Wellington, there's nothing holding you back.

[1:28:36] But like for a lot of people, not all people, but a lot of people, it's a big effort to go to the movies.

[1:28:41] So you kind of feel like if you – I was – we were watching A Christmas Story the other day because Sammy had never seen it.

[1:28:48] And I was like, they don't – I feel like there's no movies out like that anymore, but I feel like if I took my family to movies, that's 100 bucks if we buy any food.

[1:28:56] And then to see a movie like A Christmas Story, I might be like, I just spent $100 to watch, you know, something very fun but like very light, you know.

[1:29:03] But I also think so many of the movies that come out now, the big ones at least, are in that – are in the Marvel mold of like we're also going to service other things related to this.

[1:29:14] And like I haven't seen the new Wakanda movie yet, but it's hard for me to imagine that there's a real justification for it being like two hours and 40 some odd minutes long except that there's so much that I assume they have to service in that universe, you know.

[1:29:26] I don't know.

Alonso Duralde

[1:29:26] Less than you might think.

[1:29:27] I mean I think the Black Panther movies so far have kind of been their own neighborhood of the MCU in terms of having to like –

Dan McCoy

[1:29:36] Similar to Wakanda.

Alonso Duralde

[1:29:37] Thank you, yeah.

[1:29:38] It is an isolationist situation.

[1:29:39] They are under their own dome, if you will.

[1:29:41] So, yeah, it's not like a whole ton of like, oh, and the Avengers are doing blah, blah, blah, blah.

[1:29:46] Then why is it so long?

[1:29:47] Again, I haven't seen it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:48] It's a very stirring memorial.

[1:29:50] It's a solemn meditation on Lost.

[1:29:51] There's a lot going on.

[1:29:53] Okay.

[1:29:54] I mean but there's also like – I've seen solemn meditations on Lost.

[1:29:57] They're not that long.

[1:29:58] But I guess they don't have –

[1:29:59] I guess it wasn't that much loss.

[1:30:02] I guess so.

Stuart Wellington

[1:30:04] Yeah, movies are getting longer.

[1:30:05] If I had gone to the movie theater and decision to leave was not over two hours long, would I feel like I was cheated?

[1:30:13] Probably not.

Alonso Duralde

[1:30:13] And speaking of Cameron, I mean it used to be this was not considered a selling point.

[1:30:17] I remember when Paramount actually put out a thing saying that Titanic was two hours and 75 minutes.

[1:30:25] To fool people into thinking that it wasn't longer than three hours.

[1:30:28] And then of course it became a giant hit.

[1:30:30] Anyway, but maybe it's Titanic's fault actually that all movies are long now.

[1:30:34] I don't know.

Dan McCoy

[1:30:35] Well, that's – I think that actually is – I mean there were a few very tremendous –

[1:30:39] It's certainly Titanic's fault why James Cameron's movies are all long now.

[1:30:41] Yeah, but like they're tremendous hits like Titanic and Avengers Endgame that are these Lord of the Rings movies.

[1:30:48] Like they're very long movies and people are like, oh, I guess that's what people like.

Elliott Kalan

[1:30:52] Well, and you know what? It's another ripple effect and there's a number of these from the fact that there's fewer small movie houses and more big chain multiplexes where it used to be a movie couldn't be too long because it ran – it cut into the number of showings you could do during a day.

[1:31:07] But if –

[1:31:07] If it's on five screens.

[1:31:10] Yeah.

[1:31:10] If you can run Avatar on five screens, then why not make it three hours long because they're all – you have infinite time.

[1:31:15] I remember when multiplexes started and a lot of the thing was like now, you can have the screen – some screens for the big movies and some screens for the little movies.

[1:31:22] Oh, no, no, no.

[1:31:23] And then people were like, what if we just played all the big movies with the same kind of philosophy that has hollowed out every industry in the United States of America?

[1:31:30] What if we had a streaming service but we didn't stream anything?

Stuart Wellington

[1:31:34] Yeah.

[1:31:34] It's like – it's the idea of like, okay, I'll get this fountain soda.

[1:31:39] No ice, please.

[1:31:41] Wink.

[1:31:42] Because that ice is just taking up valuable real estate.

[1:31:44] Less soda.

[1:31:45] In this case, ice are the smaller art house movies that actually make you think.

Dan McCoy

[1:31:51] That add the chill.

[1:31:52] Kind of like the ice storm.

[1:31:57] Okay.

[1:31:58] Well, let's move on to the final segment where we recommend movies that we've seen that maybe would be a better use for these dwindling hours than Santa Claus 3.

[1:32:11] Hard to imagine that's possible.

[1:32:13] I'm, you know –

[1:32:15] Dan's going to recommend Avatar.

[1:32:16] That being said –

[1:32:18] I mean, it is the thing I saw recently that I enjoyed the most, but I don't think it needs my help.

[1:32:25] So that being said, I'm going to –

[1:32:26] Yes, it does.

[1:32:27] It does, yeah.

[1:32:28] I'm going to do a more qualified recommendation of a thing I enjoyed but, you know, wasn't over the moon about.

[1:32:35] I just watched the Adult Swim Yule Log thing that was put out.

[1:32:40] That was – it starts out like a normal Yule Log as one might have on a streaming service.

[1:32:45] And then I don't want to spoil the many bizarre directions it goes in to.

[1:32:50] It was directed by the person who made Too Many Cooks, which will give you an idea.

[1:32:54] I will say that it works better as a bizarre, unexpected TV experiment than like a movie in its own right, which is fair because that's what it is.

[1:33:07] I think at an hour instead of 90 minutes, it may have played better for me and it touches on some uncomfortable –

[1:33:16] like it gets pretty like extreme and touches on stuff that actually could be related to real-life trauma.

[1:33:25] I don't want to like get too specific because, you know, the whole point of it.

Alonso Duralde

[1:33:30] It delves into history in a way, yes.

Dan McCoy

[1:33:32] Yeah, like I don't want to ruin anyone's surprises but I would say that there's some material that it handles more glibly than the material warrants.

[1:33:42] But if you don't –

[1:33:45] That's a surprise coming from Adult Swim.

[1:33:46] Yeah, exactly.

[1:33:47] But if you don't mind that kind of like goofball like horror stuff in your horror movies, then that's fine.

[1:33:57] It's a very interesting thing.

[1:33:58] If nothing else, it's clever is what I would say.

Stuart Wellington

[1:34:02] Stuart?

[1:34:03] Speaking of movies that are probably a little bit too long, I'm going to recommend a movie that is probably a little too long that just dropped on Netflix recently.

[1:34:12] It's called The Big Four.

[1:34:14] It's a big old Indonesian action movie from writer-director – fuck, I can't say his name – Timo Tiahanto, who made The Night Comes for Us,

[1:34:25] which is a super bloody badass action movie.

[1:34:28] And he made some shorts in like the VHS series.

[1:34:32] This is a big action movie.

[1:34:35] It's also an action comedy.

[1:34:36] So it's filled with tons of very silly, goofy jokes.

[1:34:41] It's kind of reminiscent of a series that I recommended sometime on this podcast, the Fable series, which are also like balls-to-the-wall action movies that also have a ton of weird, silly stuff.

[1:34:55] It's also clocking in at over two hours, which is unnecessary.

[1:34:59] But if you're looking for a fun, over-the-top, very bloody action comedy, The Big Four is a blast.

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:10] I'm going to recommend – and I was talking about movies are too long or whatever.

[1:35:13] I'm also recommending a movie that's over two hours.

[1:35:15] This is ridiculous.

[1:35:17] What are we doing?

[1:35:17] We're playing right into Hollywood's hands.

Stuart Wellington

[1:35:19] I mean, I'm not complaining.

[1:35:20] I like long movies.

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:22] Oh, okay.

[1:35:22] I have less time in my life to spend on movies.

[1:35:25] So actually I like them when they're long too.

[1:35:27] Anyway, this was a movie I saw recently that I liked a lot.

[1:35:29] I don't know why, but my last few recommendations I feel like have all fallen into the category of women going for what they want in different ways.

[1:35:36] And this one is no exception.

[1:35:39] This is a movie called Mahanagar, which means the big city, and it's a Satyajit Ray movie starring Madhavi Mukherjee.

[1:35:47] I think I'm pronouncing it hopefully okay.

[1:35:48] She plays a housewife in the 50s in Calcutta, and her husband's job is not paying well.

[1:35:55] They support themselves and also their son and also the husband's parents and the husband's sister, I believe.

[1:36:04] She ends up having to take a job as a saleswoman, and that leads to complications in her family but also complications in her feelings about herself and also kind of the way she interacts with the world, having this experience with the professional world.

[1:36:18] And it was a movie that I really loved, and it felt very real to me, and the conflicts that come up are not the like straightforward black and white, I can't have a wife that works.

[1:36:28] This is I'm the man of the house type of thing.

[1:36:30] The characters feel like real kind of believable characters, and the ending I found genuinely very moving and very lovely and full of love between the characters and – that the film holds for the characters in the film too.

[1:36:44] And the performances are great in it, and there's a real kind of like lightness and humor to a lot of it considering it's a movie about a woman getting a job at a time when women don't necessarily work and da-da-da.

[1:36:56] Like it doesn't – it's not a soapbox movie.

[1:36:58] It's very much a movie about people, and I really enjoyed it, so I loved it.

[1:37:01] And it's on HBO Max until they pull all the San Chie Jett Ray movies off of HBO Max.

[1:37:07] So go see it there.

[1:37:08] It's the big city.

Stuart Wellington

[1:37:08] I think they're shooting to be the first streaming service to in fact have no content like we previously mentioned.

[1:37:15] It's like – they're like what if we only made tax write-offs?

Elliott Kalan

[1:37:18] What if all of our money came from tax write-offs?

[1:37:21] It's nuts.

[1:37:21] The numbers are working.

[1:37:22] What can I tell you?

[1:37:24] It's weird to be living at a time when there are so many very valuable brand names that are self-dismantling themselves like that and Twitter where you're just – everyone – it's like a –

Dan McCoy

[1:37:35] What if we sold ourselves for parts?

Elliott Kalan

[1:37:37] Yeah, exactly.

[1:37:39] Like how much is this arm worth?

[1:37:41] Rip it off me.

[1:37:41] Do it.

[1:37:42] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:37:42] I mean it was like what?

[1:37:43] Like a year or so ago when OnlyFans was like we're not going to allow pornography anymore.

[1:37:47] And then almost immediately we're like whoops.

Dan McCoy

[1:37:50] Just kidding.

[1:37:51] I mean if only other services took OnlyFans that lead and were like wait.

[1:37:56] Okay.

[1:37:56] That was a mistake.

[1:37:57] Let's turn the boat back around.

[1:38:00] Hold on, everybody.

Elliott Kalan

[1:38:02] Now we're calling it OnlyPorns.

[1:38:03] We got to play to our friends.

[1:38:06] Alonzo, do you have any recommendations?

Alonso Duralde

[1:38:07] I do.

[1:38:08] I was going to recommend Spirited but it's a little late for a Christmas movie and it's awfully long also.

[1:38:15] So I thought –

[1:38:16] How long is it?

[1:38:17] It's a little over two.

[1:38:18] But it's a musical and that's allowed.

[1:38:20] You know.

[1:38:20] That's fine.

[1:38:21] It should be.

[1:38:23] But anyway, so I thought I would go for a movie that I really, really liked in 2022 that I feel like kind of went under many folks' radar and is also only 98 minutes.

[1:38:32] And you guys may well have recommended it at some point.

[1:38:34] And forgive me if I'm repeating myself but Confess Fletch.

[1:38:39] Oh, yeah.

[1:38:39] The return of the Fletch franchise to the big screen.

[1:38:44] Barely.

[1:38:44] It kind of went straight to streaming, I think.

[1:38:46] With Jon Hamm stepping in as the iconic Wiseacre investigative reporter created by Gregory McDonald.

[1:38:53] It's directed by Greg Mottola who did The Day Trippers and Adventureland and a lot of like – I think a lot of episodes of Arrested Development.

[1:39:02] Hamm totally gets this character and it's a funny movie.

[1:39:05] It's the kind of like breezy crime comedy aimed at adults that we just got all the time in the 70s and 80s and nobody makes anymore.

[1:39:13] And it would be nice if they did.

[1:39:15] And this one is a really good example of that.

[1:39:17] Marcia Gay Harden has a supporting role as a Portuguese-Italian countess who constantly calls him Flesh who is hysterically funny throughout the film.

[1:39:27] This has been a very good year for Marcia Gay Harden if you watched her on that Netflix show with Neil Patrick Harris or on CBS's So Help Me Todd.

[1:39:37] But anyway, yeah, Confess Fletch.

[1:39:38] It's a hoot of fun ensemble cast of people and just like breezy and zippy and real entertaining.

Dan McCoy

[1:39:45] Yeah.

[1:39:46] You rarely see Marcia Gay Harden just get to be that goofy.

[1:39:50] Yes.

[1:39:51] It is just like unleashed and it's a lot of fun.

[1:39:53] Yeah, that's a movie that since I've seen it, I haven't rewatched it yet, but I keep thinking like maybe I just want to rewatch Confess Fletch.

[1:40:03] Yeah, yeah.

[1:40:03] It's a comfort movie.

Stuart Wellington

[1:40:05] I think part of what it is like the Fletch character is goofy but not like a big character.

[1:40:13] So you can surround him with like big side characters that are funny.

[1:40:17] Like what's her name from Barb and Star who's really great.

[1:40:20] Yeah, Annie Momolo.

Dan McCoy

[1:40:22] Yeah, she's fucking great in it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:40:23] Yes.

[1:40:23] Absolutely.

[1:40:24] That was a lot of fun.

[1:40:26] Well.

[1:40:27] I haven't seen it yet.

[1:40:28] I only watch old black and white movies from other countries.

[1:40:30] Sorry, folks.

Alonso Duralde

[1:40:32] I thought this was why are you mad about movies being long like these days?

[1:40:37] Rolls right off your back.

[1:40:38] I just did my list of movies I saw for the first time in 2022 and The Big City was one of them and it's great.

[1:40:43] Oh.

[1:40:44] It's really great.

Dan McCoy

[1:40:45] Yeah.

[1:40:46] Well, speaking of things that were a lot of fun, it was a lot of fun to have you on, Alonzo.

[1:40:51] See?

[1:40:51] See that?

[1:40:52] That's podcasting, guys.

Elliott Kalan

[1:40:54] That's the kind of smoothness that only comes from doing this show for 15 years.

Dan McCoy

[1:40:59] And it comes and goes.

[1:41:00] Yeah.

[1:41:02] Segway King.

[1:41:03] Alonzo, is there anything that you want to plug before we do our sign-off stuff?

Alonso Duralde

[1:41:07] Sure.

[1:41:08] Yes.

[1:41:08] Please, as Ellie mentioned at the top of the show, check out my Christmas movie books.

[1:41:12] I have another book project that I'm working on now that will be happening in 2024, so more on that later.

[1:41:18] You can read my stuff at The Wrap and, of course, check out my podcast, Linoleum Knife, which I've been doing for a mere 12 years with my husband, Dave White.

[1:41:25] Also, Breakfast All Day with Christy Lemire.

[1:41:28] I'm a frequent contributor to Deck the Hallmark.

[1:41:30] And here on the Maximum Fun Network, of course, you can catch me on Maximum Film with If You Waterway and Dre Clark, so please do.

[1:41:38] And it's always a delight to hang out with you guys and do the show and wishing everybody a very happy holiday.

Elliott Kalan

[1:41:44] Thank you.

[1:41:44] Thank you very much.

[1:41:45] Thanks so much for joining us today.

[1:41:47] There are a lot of great podcasts that you're involved with.

[1:41:50] Linoleum Knife is a particular favorite of mine, and I feel like for any listener who hasn't tried it, you should.

[1:41:54] And if you like the idea, if you like that this episode had a mix of talking about a movie and talking about a sandwich that you could make, I feel like that's the kind of promise Linoleum Knife fills constantly.

[1:42:04] I feel like it's like I want to know what Dave's been cooking, and I want to know what movies they watched and what they thought about them.

Alonso Duralde

[1:42:10] That's as good a description as I've ever heard.

Dan McCoy

[1:42:14] Well, as for us, we are, as Alonzo mentioned, on the Maximum Fun podcasting network.

[1:42:20] Go to MaximumFun.org.

[1:42:21] Check out Alonzo's show and other shows.

[1:42:25] Some of them are funny.

[1:42:26] Some of them tell you stuff.

[1:42:27] Some of them do both.

[1:42:30] What more do you want?

[1:42:32] Thank you to Alex Smith, our producer.

[1:42:35] He is at HowellDotty on Twitter.

[1:42:37] Although, these days, I'm like, should we even be telling people what our Twitter handles are?

[1:42:43] Is that a thing we want to do?

[1:42:44] Who cares?

[1:42:46] But as long as, you know, it's happening, we'll just let you know, and maybe we'll check in every once in a while and say hi.

[1:42:54] Anyway, that was a real side tangent at the very end of the episode.

[1:42:58] But for the Flophouse Elkos.

Elliott Kalan

[1:42:59] That kind of elegance only comes with doing the podcast for 15 years.

Stuart Wellington

[1:43:04] Stuart's nodding.

[1:43:05] I'm Stuart Wellington of the Flophouse Pod Class.

[1:43:08] I'm Dan McCoy.

Elliott Kalan

[1:43:09] Pod Class.

[1:43:12] See?

[1:43:14] I'm Ellie Kalin.

[1:43:15] I'm not even going to try to say the name of the podcast because I'll mess it up.

[1:43:17] And we've had...

[1:43:20] Oh, we...

[1:43:21] What?

Stuart Wellington

[1:43:23] This is your cue.

[1:43:24] Oh, my God.

[1:43:25] Hi.

[1:43:26] I've been Alonzo Duraldi.

[1:43:27] Thank you for listening.

[1:43:28] Oh, man.

[1:43:29] You know, I'll take the heat on that one.

[1:43:32] I kind of mess everything up.

[1:43:33] No, no.

[1:43:34] No, no.

[1:43:34] We went over this earlier, but...

Dan McCoy

[1:43:36] I had one instruction.

Elliott Kalan

[1:43:38] I mean, it shows how...

[1:43:40] It shows what a natural fit and what a great guest you are for us.

[1:43:44] That it's like...

[1:43:44] It's like we need a guest who's great at what he does, but also messes up sometimes.

[1:43:48] We mess up all the time.

[1:43:50] To make us look normal.

[1:43:51] Done and done.

[1:43:53] Anyone who comes in who's too professional makes us look terrible.

Dan McCoy

[1:43:56] It just confuses us.

[1:43:59] I'm talking about you, Roman Mars, being so good at what you do.

[1:44:03] Anyway, for the Flop House, that's been us.

[1:44:06] We'll talk to you next time.

Stuart Wellington

[1:44:07] You don't have to do it again, Dan.

[1:44:08] Bye.

[1:44:10] Yeah, just tell Alex to fade that last bit kind of out a little bit.

[1:44:18] No, but guys, I'm about to drink this Waterloo pineapple flavored seltzer.

[1:44:23] Is it going to have a positive effect on my loads, Elliot?

Elliott Kalan

[1:44:27] Based on the erotic fiction I've read, yes, probably.

[1:44:31] Great.

Alonso Duralde

[1:44:32] If it were actual pineapple, maybe, but I think given that most fruit-flavored seltzer just sort of waved in front of a picture of that fruit, I think I wouldn't worry about it.

[1:44:41] I told him it might make him seeming fizzy.

[1:44:44] But get back to us later and let us know.

Elliott Kalan

[1:44:46] Again, this is only based on my reading of the erotic literature from my very specific fetish.

[1:44:52] That, of course, is the Rata Spewy series about a rat who cooks food and then ejaculates onto it.

[1:44:57] So he always eats fresh fruit so it tastes better.

[1:44:59] That's the secret ingredient.

[1:45:00] And they can't let the restaurant critics know or the health department because that would be –

[1:45:05] Or the customers.

[1:45:06] They'd instantly shut down a restaurant.

[1:45:07] Or the customers for that matter.

[1:45:08] No one is happy about this arrangement other than the rat.

[1:45:12] And the rat loves it.

[1:45:13] But oh, the flavor profile.

Dan McCoy

[1:45:16] MaximumFun.org.

S6

[1:45:17] Comedy and culture.

[1:45:19] Artist owned.

[1:45:20] Audience supported.

Ep.# 386 - The Santa Clause 3: The Escape Clause, with Alonso Duralde

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