FH Mini 71 - '22 in Review

Stuart Wellington

[0:00] Hey! It's me, Stuart Wellington, on the Flophouse Podcast, and this is a Flophouse Mini.

[0:09] Hell yeah, that means instead of watching a movie and then talking about it, we're going

[0:13] to be talking about a lot of stuff. We're going to do whatever we want, and today is

[0:16] a special day. That's right, pop your fucking bottles, pour yourself a drink, because that

[0:21] is the end of the year. It is no longer 2022, it is now 2023. Time to fucking celebrate,

[0:26] right? Yep, give me some woo-woos, boys.

[0:30] Woo-woos, woo-woos, woo-woos, woo-woos, woo-woos, woo-woos, woo-woos, woo-woos, woo-woos, woo-woos, woo-woos, woo-woos.

Elliott Kalan

[0:32] That's right, 2023 is the year of the Stooges. The Stooges are back from the dead.

Dan McCoy

[0:38] Now I want to be your dog.

[0:41] No, not that Stooges. No, they're wrong.

[0:42] Okay, sorry.

Elliott Kalan

[0:43] But although I would say Iggy Pop and the Three Stooges, I think it would go a little something

[0:49] like this.

[0:50] Give me danger to the stranger. Hey, hey, wait, hey, what? Okay, I will.

Dan McCoy

[0:56] I thought, I was imagining like this Dowager being like, I have this valuable Iggy Pop.

[1:01] As you can see, he is quite frail. He is a thin reed of a man. Do not break him.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07] And then Lou Reed leans in and goes, like me? And they go, you get out of here.

[1:11] Who you call the streetwalking cheetah?

[1:14] Get this guy, Moe. He's a streetwalking cheetah with a hide full of napalm.

[1:19] So I think that's a sketch the Ben Stiller show should have done in the 1990s.

[1:24] It's the one where the Dowager hires Iggy and the Stooges to guard her, to be plumbers.

[1:29] And they're so strung out that they can't get any of it done.

Stuart Wellington

[1:34] Oh, yeah. Actually, that would fit very perfectly on that show.

[1:38] So joining me, as always, are my co-hosts from the Flophouse.

[1:41] That's right, Dan McCoy and Elliot Kalin.

[1:42] Hey, guys. I'm so excited to talk about 2022 movies and then looking forward a little bit.

[1:51] In general, I think this year was not a particularly strong year for movies.

[1:56] But I do have a couple of favorites.

[1:58] And I asked you guys to prepare a list of some of your favorites as well.

Elliott Kalan

[2:03] I'm sorry. I kind of thought the theme of this episode was 2022 Hollywood's greatest year.

[2:07] Sorry, guys.

Stuart Wellington

[2:08] That's why you're wearing those glasses that managed to put two eye holes out of four digits.

[2:14] Somehow they managed to make it work.

Dan McCoy

[2:16] I disagree about your assessment of the year for movies.

[2:19] I found a lot of movies that I loved quite a bit.

Stuart Wellington

[2:22] I think it's coming off of last year, which I felt was a particularly hot year.

[2:27] And I'm not talking temperature.

Elliott Kalan

[2:30] I actually found that a bunch of the movies that I was looking forward to talking to,

[2:33] because I saw them at the beginning of 2022, were 2021 releases.

[2:37] Oh, sorry. Talking about where 2021 releases.

[2:39] So I think Stuart was right.

[2:40] I think 2021 was overall a stronger year.

[2:42] But again, I only saw a handful of 2022 releases.

[2:46] So maybe I'm not the best judge.

[2:48] Films 2021.

[2:51] I'm glad that Dan is fact-checking this in real time.

Dan McCoy

[2:54] No, I just got to see why you're saying this about...

Stuart Wellington

[2:57] I feel like I remember last year I had trouble cutting my list down to only 10 favorite movies.

[3:06] I feel like Dune even got pushed out of there at the last minute by a little movie called The Last Duel.

Elliott Kalan

[3:12] I mean, I was going to say, The Last Duel was a movie that I was looking forward to talking about in this episode.

[3:16] It's so good.

[3:16] And I was so sad to remind myself that it was a 2021 release, even though I saw it in 2022.

Stuart Wellington

[3:21] All your notes about the various wigs got crossed off.

Dan McCoy

[3:26] Yeah, last year was a good year too, but I don't think this was a bad year for movies.

[3:30] I'm looking at them now, but...

Elliott Kalan

[3:31] When I saw The Last Duel, it was a very good year.

[3:36] A very good year for ill-fitting wigs.

[3:39] And Adam Driver being kind of a bad guy.

[3:42] Let's just say a very bad guy.

[3:43] He does something terrible.

[3:44] Yeah, he's a terrible guy.

Stuart Wellington

[3:46] He's a terrible guy.

[3:47] Well, with that in mind, Dan, why don't you convince me?

[3:51] Why don't you share what your top three movies of the year are?

Dan McCoy

[3:55] Okay.

[3:56] So, number two is going to be controversial.

Stuart Wellington

[4:01] It's fucking Marmaduke.

Dan McCoy

[4:04] And number three is going to be controversial because I said,

[4:08] Hey, why don't we keep it to three?

[4:09] Because we probably don't see a lot of movies, all of us.

[4:13] And then I was like, I made it a tie.

[4:17] So, it's the way.

Elliott Kalan

[4:17] But I'm disappointed already that number one is not going to be controversial.

Dan McCoy

[4:20] Okay, here it is.

[4:21] Top three.

[4:22] For me, I chose Tar.

[4:25] Yeah, yeah.

[4:25] That's my...

[4:26] You recommended it earlier.

Stuart Wellington

[4:28] Why is Tar in your top spot?

Dan McCoy

[4:32] It's a movie that I walked out of being like,

[4:34] Oh, yeah, movies can do this.

[4:36] Like, I mean, and maybe it was...

Stuart Wellington

[4:38] Was it movies can have a needle drop of dubstep at the end?

[4:43] After seeing an intro for Monster Hunter?

[4:48] I think...

[4:48] No, it's...

Dan McCoy

[4:48] I mean, maybe it's because I'm watching a bunch of junk

[4:52] and my mind is all gunked up with junk,

[4:54] as Elliot probably would think about it.

[4:57] Because we were having a conversation just before we started recording

[5:00] about how he likes emotion and I like spectacle these days.

[5:04] And I like a lot of bigness and a lot of madness and visual flair.

[5:12] And just like, you know, I like a lot of spice.

[5:15] And Elliot's stomach, you know, doesn't handle the spice.

[5:17] He wants love.

[5:18] He wants emotion.

[5:19] He wants sadness.

[5:20] He wants heartbreak.

[5:22] A deep well of...

Elliott Kalan

[5:23] When I'm watching a movie, I want it to hit my heart rather than my tongue.

[5:27] Yeah.

[5:27] Okay.

Dan McCoy

[5:29] But I think that...

[5:30] Tar is interesting in that I don't think it hits either the heart of the tongue necessarily,

[5:35] but it does something very...

[5:38] I mean, it's a movie that takes its time.

[5:40] I think it does hit the heart.

[5:41] I think it's...

[5:42] I mean, I'll just...

[5:44] It hits the heart in a different way than I guess maybe the phrase hits the heart might

[5:48] suggest.

Stuart Wellington

[5:49] Dan's overriding fear of getting canceled.

Elliott Kalan

[5:53] Well, here's...

[5:54] I'm going to say...

[5:55] Interrupting Dan because he's taking a drink.

[5:57] I'm going to spoiler...

[5:58] Tar is on my top three also.

[6:00] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[6:00] I mean, we're going to spoil a bunch of things and we're going to spoil our list in the process.

Elliott Kalan

[6:04] Yeah.

[6:04] And Tar, I thought it was...

[6:06] I loved it because one, going into it also, I was like, I'm curious.

[6:10] This is the movie about getting canceled, I guess.

[6:12] But it's not about that.

[6:13] It's about...

[6:13] No, it's not at all.

[6:14] This woman who is refusing to...

[6:17] Refusing to kind of interact with other people's reality in a way that gives them agency as

[6:24] human beings and finds that she is dehumanizing herself in the process and destroying herself.

[6:31] And when I talk about movies hitting me in the heart, I don't necessarily just mean like

[6:34] movies that make me feel warm.

[6:36] Sure.

[6:36] In fact, often that's not what I'm looking for in a movie because I get that from my family.

[6:40] I don't need it in my movies.

[6:41] But the idea that a movie that where I'm connecting with a character emotionally and the thing that I loved about Tar was I was like,

[6:47] this is a character I don't like, but I feel like I am living inside of her brain and inside of her feelings.

[6:52] And I am not necessarily understanding her, but I am living her experience.

[6:57] And when she is destroyed, I'm like, spoiler alert, her life falls apart.

[7:01] She is destroyed and her mind is crumbling.

Stuart Wellington

[7:02] I mean, she is conducting, as I mentioned before, an orchestral performance of Monster Hunter in front of a cosplay audience.

Elliott Kalan

[7:10] For an audience of cosplayers in Asia.

[7:13] But in front of me, that's like, yeah, this is the ending you wrought, you know.

Dan McCoy

[7:18] But also, I think that it's interesting.

[7:20] It creates this character who has done horrible things and is refusing to grapple with the fact that she has sort of wreaked havoc in her wake.

[7:30] But it also is like, I feel like too many, at least internet debates about movies.

[7:36] I know I should get off of it when it talks about movies other than putting this podcast up.

[7:40] But like so much internet debate about it is like, this character sucks.

[7:45] So I hate her and I don't like, you know.

[7:46] And I think a movie like Tar shows that, yeah, you can see that this person has done bad things and maybe you don't like her or like –

[7:58] I think arguably you shouldn't like her.

[8:01] Well, no.

[8:02] Yes.

[8:03] If we can stop virtue signaling for a second.

[8:05] My point is –

Elliott Kalan

[8:06] Well, no.

[8:06] I think that –

[8:07] You can empathize with her humanity is what I'm saying.

Dan McCoy

[8:11] She's a complex character where you can say like, yes, of course, she should face some sort of consequence.

[8:17] But there's something that is lost in her destruction and you sort of hope that maybe she can figure out how to be a human too.

[8:27] Like you can have enough empathy to be like, yeah, you've been bad.

[8:31] I hope you get better.

Elliott Kalan

[8:32] You can empathize with somebody who so clearly needs control in every aspect of their life and wants to conduct their life the way that they conduct an orchestra.

[8:41] And wants to – you treat the people in her orchestra as tools to get to that end.

[8:46] You can empathize with that need and that desire and that hunger without being like, yeah, I guess I approve of everything she does.

[8:53] I guess she's a saint.

[8:54] Saint Tar.

[8:55] Make it Saint Tar's Day.

[8:57] Is that right after Saint Anger's Day?

[8:59] It is.

[8:59] Saint Anger's – the Feast of Saint Anger.

[9:02] And then there's the Feast of Saint Tar.

[9:03] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[9:04] That's what I'm trying to say.

[9:05] I feel like a lot of like internet debate flattens it out where like it ignores the fact that you can empathize with a bad character in part because you can see that like everyone has the capability to be bad within them.

[9:19] You know?

[9:19] And like you –

[9:21] Michael Jackson wrote a song about it.

[9:23] I don't feel like – I don't feel like there's enough there.

Elliott Kalan

[9:25] Homer once said, when kids say bad, they really mean good.

[9:27] And to shake one's booty means to wiggle one's butt.

[9:29] Allow me to demonstrate.

Dan McCoy

[9:31] I just don't think that there's enough there before the grace of God go out.

[9:34] Not that it's just the grace of God.

[9:35] Like she did bad things.

[9:37] But there's also the like sense of like – yeah.

[9:41] There's a whole spectrum of human behavior that we can like think about and, you know, like pour over in like in our own minds and have feelings about that is ignored by movies a lot.

[9:56] And Tar didn't do that.

Stuart Wellington

[9:58] And one of the things I loved about it was I love like the little like just visual cues as opposed to like telling you – because she travels around.

[10:06] She travels around the world a lot.

[10:08] She's a real Carmen Sandiego.

[10:10] And luckily she got busted unlike Carmen Sandiego.

[10:14] She's a regular Tarman Sandiego.

[10:16] Thank you.

[10:17] It was a long walk but it was worth it.

[10:20] We got there.

[10:21] A long walk just like her walking with her suitcase away from every airport.

[10:24] I love the little visual cues of things where you're like, oh, she's in New York now.

[10:30] Or, oh, she's in an Asian country now.

[10:35] Or she's in Berlin.

[10:36] Like I love that stuff without having to tell you specifically.

[10:39] So you're like, oh, okay.

[10:40] So I'm going to – I have to use my brain.

[10:42] Like I got to use my brain a little in this movie.

Elliott Kalan

[10:45] Yeah.

[10:46] Well, it's like the movie is – it's storytelling is telling you you're going to need to use your brain on this to figure it out moment to moment sometimes.

[10:53] And also to figure out how you feel about it.

[10:55] And like I think the thing that maybe struck you guys that struck me so much about Tar is like Dan is saying, it's a complicated movie at a time where I feel like I don't see a lot of at least big release complicated movies.

[11:06] I see independent complicated movies or foreign sometimes complicated movies.

[11:10] But it is – I don't want to sound like a regular Marty Scorsese over here.

[11:14] But I feel like one of the detriments of comic books becoming the de facto model of narrative entertainment for mainstream popular entertainment for right now is that everything is good and bad.

[11:28] Yeah.

[11:28] And this is – this is a movie that is not going to tell you how to think about this person, whether she is good or bad or what she is or how – you have to figure out how you're going to feel about her.

Dan McCoy

[11:37] Well, also to your point that it's not actually a cancel culture movie.

[11:40] Like if the question of the movie is should she lose her job and be punished, then the answer is yes.

[11:46] Of course.

Elliott Kalan

[11:47] She's losing her job for the wrong reason is the only real issue.

Dan McCoy

[11:50] Yeah.

[11:51] But if – but the movie is not that.

[11:53] It's a character study about a specific person, which is like the interesting thing about it.

[11:57] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[11:57] You know.

[11:58] What I like is that they cast Mark Strong in the movie and he gets easily pushed over by Cate Blanchett.

[12:04] So his name is not correct.

[12:06] He is very not strong.

Elliott Kalan

[12:07] I loved seeing Mark Strong as the wimpiest kind of like – like just least impressive person.

[12:15] And like I thought it was such a funny performance from him.

[12:17] And I say that as someone who is much more like Mark Strong's character than – the character's name is Elliot, I think, in the movie.

[12:23] And I was like –

[12:24] I thought of you when I saw him.

[12:26] Thank you.

[12:26] Yeah.

[12:27] I was like I can't be mad at this movie for basically making fun of me.

[12:29] Like I love seeing Mark Strong in this role when they could have easily cast someone more – who looks more like me.

[12:35] You know, who hasn't played the villain in franchise films before.

[12:39] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[12:40] So Tar, great.

[12:41] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[12:41] And I'll say one last thing about Tar.

[12:44] A movie is starting right off the bat with a interest deficit from me when it opens at a New Yorker festival talk hosted by Adam Gopnik.

[12:51] And I tell you, Tar, you won me back.

[12:52] You won me back, baby.

Dan McCoy

[12:53] But that's also kind of the amazing thing about it.

[12:56] It's like the movie trusts that it will – like you will take the time with it.

[13:02] Yeah.

[13:02] Including a long expository Q&A at the beginning of the film.

Stuart Wellington

[13:08] And all the credits up front too where you're like –

[13:11] Yeah.

[13:12] I watched this at home and I'm like, well, you're really daring me to check my phone, aren't you?

Elliott Kalan

[13:18] Well, I watched a screener of it and I was like, did I break this?

[13:23] Did I play backwards?

[13:24] Am I watching it backwards?

Dan McCoy

[13:28] Should we go Red Robin rather than me just running down my ones?

[13:33] I don't know whether –

Elliott Kalan

[13:33] But why don't we go meet up at Red Robin and get ourselves a buffet meal?

[13:36] Is Red Robin a buffet restaurant?

Stuart Wellington

[13:37] They're not our sponsor, Elliot.

[13:39] Stop fucking vlogging Red Robin at every opportunity.

Dan McCoy

[13:42] Bobbing along?

[13:44] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[13:45] Yeah, sure.

Elliott Kalan

[13:46] Elliot, why don't you jump in with your number one?

[13:49] I – to be honest, I had not really numbered mine.

[13:52] Perfect.

[13:52] I didn't – I'll just come right off the bat.

[13:54] I didn't see a lot of movies this year in the theaters.

[13:56] This was a rough year in a lot of ways for me.

[13:58] I don't need to get into all the details.

[14:00] Dan and Stuart are well aware of it because I've griped to both of them about it.

[14:02] This was not an easy year for me and I did not make it to the movies that much for a variety of reasons.

[14:08] But I think Tar might be my number one.

[14:11] But another one that I would possibly put at number one, which I did get to see in the theaters, was Everything Everywhere All at Once, which I really loved.

[14:19] I think it's – if I have any complaint about the movie, it's just that there's too much of it.

[14:22] About 15 minutes before the ending, I was like –

[14:24] Meets in the title.

[14:26] That's true.

[14:27] About 15 minutes before the end of the movie, I was like, movie, I'm full.

[14:30] It reminded me of – there was a time when Danielle and I went out to a nice dinner.

[14:36] We didn't get to go out for a lot.

[14:37] And it was one of these restaurants where they're like –

[14:38] If you say it was at fucking Red Robin, I'm going to kick you off this call.

[14:43] No, no.

[14:44] It was at Inc., which I think has since closed, the Michael Voltaggio restaurant.

[14:49] And they were like, we just bring it out, small plates, one at a time as ever they're ready.

[14:53] And we kind of filled up.

[14:54] And then we had forgotten that we had ordered steak as a main course.

[14:57] And by the time the steak arrived, we were not hungry anymore.

[14:59] And I feel like everything everywhere all at once is kind of like that where the movie was making me cry.

[15:05] But then it kept going and I was like, movie, you got me.

[15:08] You don't need anymore.

[15:09] But that was one I really enjoyed it.

[15:12] I liked – I thought it was funny and I thought it was exciting and I thought it was really touching.

[15:16] And Michelle Yeoh is so amazing in it.

[15:18] And the rest of the cast is amazing in it too.

Stuart Wellington

[15:21] On some level, it feels like Michelle Yeoh has always been amazing, right?

[15:25] And it's so great that she gets to be amazing in so many different ways in this movie.

[15:30] Yes.

Elliott Kalan

[15:31] She's an actress who, at the very least in English language movies, I feel like does not get a lot of opportunity to show range.

[15:37] And she shows so much range in it.

[15:40] And like that was one where I literally at work, they said, hey, actually we don't need everybody until three hours from now.

[15:48] And I was like, is there a movie playing right now?

[15:50] And I looked up that I was a 15-minute drive from a theater that was playing everything every while at once in 10 minutes.

[15:55] And I raced over there and luckily got in just as the movie was starting because I missed the trailers.

[16:01] And I was so glad that I saw that in the theater and I really enjoyed it.

[16:04] So I think that's – if TARS not my number one, then that's my number one for the year.

Dan McCoy

[16:08] And that's a movie that uses everything too in the sense that like stuff that seems like it's just a joke at the beginning then becomes like unbearably moving by the end.

Elliott Kalan

[16:18] Yeah, although even that there's a little – I was like I don't need to see the full arc for the raccoon, you know.

[16:22] I mean let alone that they stole the idea from me from an earlier – from the Doolittle episode of The Flophouse.

[16:27] But still.

[16:28] That's right.

Stuart Wellington

[16:30] Yeah, so I'll go on.

[16:32] My number one of the year shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

[16:35] I am a longtime avowed Luca Guadagino stan.

[16:39] And Bones and All was a triumph for me.

[16:43] It's beautiful.

[16:44] It is a rare movie that captures the like beauty and isolation of the Midwest.

[16:50] It has that like, again, desperate romanticism that I'm a fucking sucker for.

[16:57] It's filled with like tiny little details and wacky performances that shouldn't work.

[17:02] But for me, everything works.

[17:04] Yeah, it's just fucking great.

Elliott Kalan

[17:06] That's the scariest I've ever seen – what's the name?

[17:08] Michael Stuhlbarg?

[17:09] Michael Stuhlbarg?

[17:10] Yeah, he's incredible.

Stuart Wellington

[17:12] Him and David Gordon Green.

Elliott Kalan

[17:13] Yeah, that was – and then I had to look it up afterwards and I didn't even recognize that that was David Gordon Green until afterwards when I was reading about it.

[17:19] I really liked Bones and All a lot.

[17:21] I thought it was really great.

[17:22] And the only thing that kept it out of my top three, I think, is the fact that afterward, I was really under its spell.

[17:29] But then as the movie went on –

[17:30] Is it because you don't like Sully?

[17:34] Do not like –

[17:35] No, no, Sully.

[17:36] No, you're fine, Sully.

[17:37] Sully, you're fine.

[17:37] You don't like Sully?

[17:39] It's that I kept – I suddenly started comparing it in my head to Badlands, which is a very similar movie that I just love.

[17:45] And I was like, you know what?

[17:47] This movie is great and I should not be comparing it to Badlands.

[17:49] But I just kind of kept sticking – and I was like – it was like if Badlands – if I was trying to sell it to somebody, I'd be like, imagine if Badlands, instead of being kind of a slow kind of poem-driven movie in a way, is a – Badlands is kind of like the best adaptation of an 80s Stephen King novel that Stephen King didn't write.

[18:07] Yeah.

[18:08] But it's – and so – and I feel like it captures so many of those things so well.

[18:12] It's a beautiful movie.

[18:13] But my head, my brain was just tripping me up on it for that.

[18:16] I think it's a great movie.

Dan McCoy

[18:17] You know, this is a movie that I didn't like quite as much – I mean, definitely not as much as Stuart.

[18:24] I don't think as much as you either, Elliot, when I was watching it.

[18:27] Although I think that part of that is that this was during the period of time where I was having toothaches because I eventually had to get a root canal.

Elliott Kalan

[18:34] So you couldn't even think about chowing down on somebody's butt.

[18:38] Every time they chomped on a carny hustler, you were like, oh, my teeth.

[18:43] Ah, only I could do that, but I can't.

Dan McCoy

[18:45] It wasn't biting specific.

[18:46] It was just the general, like, fact that the nerve inside my tooth was dying.

[18:50] I see.

[18:50] And off-gassing, like, stuff that couldn't go anywhere because it was stuck inside my tooth.

[18:56] Anyway, gross.

[18:57] That's what happens.

Elliott Kalan

[18:58] I like that Dan's Root Canal is the new Dan's ACL.

[19:02] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[19:03] I mean, I'm not trying to complain about it.

[19:05] I'm just saying maybe that maybe I don't love a movie while I'm in tooth pain.

[19:11] Yeah.

[19:11] But the other – I mean, but it's grown for me since I saw it.

[19:15] I just think that the basic problem for me was like –

Stuart Wellington

[19:17] The tooth pain has grown for you?

Dan McCoy

[19:19] I don't necessarily sympathize with a pair of cannibals no matter how in love they are.

[19:26] And I know that maybe I'm supposed to take it metaphorically, but I wasn't able to come up with a metaphor that adequately made me feel –

Elliott Kalan

[19:32] I don't think even on a metaphorical level, to me it is –

[19:36] There are people who are – they can't control their desires.

[19:38] This is something they biologically need, and they don't like it.

[19:41] They're not Sully, who seems to really love collecting hair and eating old ladies.

[19:47] But it's – there's something – they're driven to do this thing.

[19:50] And I have to admit, I also – outside the –

[19:54] I think there's part of me when I was younger that would have been like,

[19:56] oh, imagine being a monster.

[19:58] Wouldn't that be kind of cool in a weird way?

[20:00] But the thing that really struck me this time was like,

[20:02] when they go to that town and they just kind of settle down and get jobs for a little bit,

[20:05] and I was like, oh, man, to be a person, a young person in love with no ambition whatsoever,

[20:11] who can just kind of do a crappy waiting job.

Stuart Wellington

[20:14] Whose only ambition is to not eat people.

Elliott Kalan

[20:16] Yes.

[20:17] Like, I can handle that.

[20:18] Like, if that was my only ambition, I would be the happiest –

[20:21] I'd be living heavenly life if I just had a job I didn't care that much about.

[20:25] The rest of my time is my own, and I just have to try not to eat people,

[20:28] which for me is very easy.

[20:30] For them, it's a little different.

[20:31] But for me, that's a very easy temptation to fight.

[20:33] Yeah.

[20:34] Just, I was like, oh, what a fantasy.

[20:36] What a fantasy.

[20:37] But instead, I'm like Abraham Lincoln.

[20:39] I'm damned by ambition.

[20:41] Or I guess more like Samuel Beckett, since I think that was the name of –

[20:44] no, Damned to Fame was the biography of him.

[20:46] Anyway.

Dan McCoy

[20:47] Sam Beckett, the time traveler?

[20:50] Yep.

[20:50] Exactly.

Stuart Wellington

[20:51] And his friend Al.

[20:54] Al, who in a different life –

[20:56] You want to.

[20:57] If this movie had been made back in the 80s, he would have been fucking great.

[21:02] Oh, man.

[21:02] Dean Stockwell would have been incredible as Sully.

Elliott Kalan

[21:05] Perfect Sully.

[21:06] Perfect Sully.

[21:07] I mean, Mark – why am I forgetting his name?

[21:10] Mark Rylance.

[21:11] Mike Rylance is also great in it.

[21:13] He's incredible.

[21:13] You're right.

[21:14] And like Chloe Savini's great in it.

Stuart Wellington

[21:17] It's –

[21:17] Yeah.

[21:18] Dan, I have a proposition for you.

Elliott Kalan

[21:20] Dan, if you wanted, you could call me Al.

[21:25] But, but, but, but, there's a catch.

[21:27] There's a catch.

[21:27] Okay.

[21:28] You must allow me to call you Betty.

[21:30] But if I can call you Betty, then Betty – I'm being presumptuous, but I'm calling you already Betty.

[21:35] You can call me Al.

[21:36] He's been working on this fucking bitch for –

Dan McCoy

[21:37] Can we do some sort of trade, some bartering vis-a-vis?

[21:42] Like, one of us could be a bodyguard, and in return, there would be a pal sort of level of intimacy that would be –

Elliott Kalan

[21:49] I would settle for a long lost pal.

[21:52] Okay.

[21:52] It would have to be a long lost pal.

[21:53] Okay.

[21:54] But, yes, I think that would be fair.

[21:55] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[21:56] So, any final thoughts on Bones and All?

Dan McCoy

[22:00] No, my final thought was just like when we talked about Stuart, like I was talking about how when Mark Rylance first shows up, you're like, is he putting too much mustard on this?

[22:08] Yes.

[22:09] And then by the end of the movie, you're like, okay.

[22:11] Perfect amount of gold juice.

Elliott Kalan

[22:14] I think my only – and my only other issue is it was when they're like bones and all.

[22:18] It's like that's impossible.

[22:20] Like there's – unless you're grinding the bones into flour, like what are you doing?

[22:24] Like there's no way.

[22:24] It would take days.

[22:26] So anyway.

Dan McCoy

[22:26] Elliot, we –

[22:28] We're talking about magic monster people.

[22:30] When we used to do this in my old apartment, you would get Popeyes.

[22:35] The amount of bone that was left after.

[22:38] But, Dan, those are chicken bones.

Elliott Kalan

[22:39] Those are chicken bones.

[22:40] They're tiny.

[22:41] They splinter.

[22:42] That's why you don't give them to dogs.

[22:43] Human bones?

[22:44] They don't break that weight.

Dan McCoy

[22:45] They're tiny.

[22:45] They're splinter.

[22:46] That's why you shouldn't have been eating them, Elliot.

[22:48] I was so worried every time.

[22:50] I'm like, this man is going to choke.

Elliott Kalan

[22:52] Dan, I'm glad you weren't there.

[22:53] You weren't there earlier today when I was having Popeyes lunch with Sammy while we watched The Last Jedi.

Dan McCoy

[22:57] You're having Popeyes lunch?

[22:59] He'll beat you up.

Elliott Kalan

[23:02] Yeah.

[23:02] At least don't tell Popeye that it is lunch.

[23:04] Guess who it was?

[23:04] What was it like?

[23:05] A shillow to spinach?

[23:06] Well, it was all spinach.

[23:07] So even if he tries to fight me, he's just an old man with no strength at this point.

Stuart Wellington

[23:11] Covered in olive oil?

[23:13] Yeah.

[23:14] He's covered in olive oil.

Elliott Kalan

[23:16] Cool.

[23:16] A spinach covered in olive oil sounds pretty good.

[23:19] It's like in Bronson when Tom Hardy just starts covering himself with the oil so that the guards can't grab him.

[23:24] Yeah.

[23:24] It's a good trick.

[23:26] With Popeye, you just got to stay in his blind spot, which is enormous because he's only got the one eye.

[23:30] Uh-huh.

Stuart Wellington

[23:32] Dan, why don't you throw one at us?

[23:34] All right.

[23:35] I'll go to my-

[23:35] Oh, we got the controversial takes.

[23:37] This is a controversial take.

Dan McCoy

[23:39] Let's get the controversy in.

[23:39] It might be recency bias, although I've now seen this movie twice because I went back to see it with Audrey and some friends who had not seen it.

[23:46] It is Babylon.

[23:48] I will not be taking tweets at me or emails.

Elliott Kalan

[23:52] Dan, the only thing I'm mad about is that you have the time in your life to go to see a three-hour movie in the theater twice.

[23:58] That's the only thing I'm mad about.

Dan McCoy

[24:00] To our listeners, look, I love you.

[24:02] You're wonderful.

[24:02] Thank you for listening.

[24:04] Thank you for being members of Maximum Fun if you are.

[24:07] I just don't need to-

[24:08] Like, if you didn't like Babylon, that's fine.

[24:10] I don't need to hear about it.

[24:11] That's great.

[24:12] It's fine.

[24:12] But this is-

Stuart Wellington

[24:14] This is the first one we talked about that I haven't seen yet.

Elliott Kalan

[24:17] And I've only-

[24:18] And full disclosure, I am, as I almost never get to see a movie all the way through in one sitting, I am halfway through Babylon right now.

[24:25] And I am-

[24:26] I find that my take on it does not fall into either camp of what I've seen online.

[24:31] I am neither blown away by its wild spectacle nor am I offended or disgusted by it.

Dan McCoy

[24:36] And you know what, Elliot?

[24:38] I all-

[24:39] I-

Dan McCoy

[24:39] Number one, I kind of guessed that maybe this wouldn't be for you.

[24:42] But also, like, I respect that.

[24:44] There are people out there who outright hate this movie and I just kind of don't get it.

Elliott Kalan

[24:49] Well, here's my theory about some of it.

[24:51] I don't know all-

[24:52] I think part of it is-

[24:53] And Dan has said this many times in private conversations.

[24:55] I can't remember if he said it in the podcast.

[24:57] Yeah.

[24:57] You think that people are not used to weird things in movies or wild things in movies.

[25:02] Or wild tonal shifts.

[25:04] So things that are deliberately meant to throw someone off balance or overwhelm you are taken as bad when they are not bad.

[25:11] They're just-

[25:11] They're meant to have that effect.

[25:12] Yeah, it's like-

Stuart Wellington

[25:13] Like it's considered a plot hole.

[25:15] It's a cinema sin, if you will.

Dan McCoy

[25:17] Well, and also this is not a movie with, like, a very, like-

[25:21] Like, it has, like, straightforward character arcs, but it is not, like, a linear plot in the way that also people, I think,

[25:27] are-

[25:28] Come to have-

[25:29] Have come to expect over the years.

Elliott Kalan

[25:30] I mean, I don't know about that.

[25:31] From Hollywood movies.

[25:32] I mean, again, I'm only halfway through it, but I kind of wish it had a less linear plot.

[25:35] That's the-

[25:35] It's visually style-wise and pacing-wise, it's so-

[25:39] It's doing so many different things, but I want it-

[25:41] Story-wise, I kind of wish it was a little less linear.

Dan McCoy

[25:43] I guess what I mean is it's based around a lot of set pieces more than it is, like-

[25:48] Yes, that makes sense.

[25:48] A story, and it also is, like, based so much about let's just be in this world for a while, you know.

[25:54] Well, and here's the-

Elliott Kalan

[25:55] And here's what I think gets-

[25:56] And that gets to why I think the other reason it's gotten so much dislike from critics, particularly,

[26:01] is I think there's a real possessiveness.

[26:03] I would even call it a nerdy possessiveness about both film history and the past.

[26:09] And I'll say this.

[26:11] I had to-

Stuart Wellington

[26:11] Do we know anybody who's, like, a nerd for that shit?

[26:14] No one I can think of.

Elliott Kalan

[26:16] And there's part of me, but my watching it, I have to fight against the fact that I have my own idea of what the past of films was like.

[26:22] And the historical inaccuracies that he's got going on, which he's doing relatively deliberately, I assume.

[26:28] Yeah.

[26:28] They are glaring to me in a lot of ways.

[26:30] And the way that he is presenting Hollywood as kind of pre-sound as kind of like this wild, nonstop chaos party carnival, which it was not at that time.

[26:39] But also, I'm going to say, but at the same time, like, I have to fight against the fact that I now have an unpublished novel that someday I hope will get published about Hollywood in the 30s.

[26:47] And so I have my own personal sense of what the old-time Hollywood was like.

[26:51] And I think a lot of critics are not able to let go of that.

[26:54] And it's the same way that, like, when Michael Clarke Duncan played the Kingpin in Daredevil, there were fans, comical fans, who were like, Kingpin's not black.

[27:03] Impossible.

[27:04] What?

[27:04] And a lot of those fans were racist, but not all of them.

[27:06] A lot of them were – some of them were just having trouble letting go of their own preconceived idea of what this thing was.

[27:12] And I think a lot of film people are having that issue.

[27:15] That's my theorizing.

Dan McCoy

[27:15] Yeah.

[27:16] And, well, I would like to speak to that in the sense that I think – I also think that its brilliance to me is in part that it is inspired by these, like, tales of Hollywood.

[27:28] But it does not purport to be, like, an accurate depiction of that.

[27:33] It is like – like, Kenneth Anger's book, Hollywood Babylon, from which this borrows the title Babylon, even though it is not a direct adaptation in any way.

Elliott Kalan

[27:42] But it's very much a spiritual adaptation.

[27:44] Yes.

[27:44] It's the same kind of tone idea.

Dan McCoy

[27:45] Well, exactly.

[27:46] It's been widely debunked, a lot of the stories, but also even when it was published, it didn't purport to be the truth.

[27:55] These were rumors and innuendo that he had accrued and put into a book and sometimes just made up.

Elliott Kalan

[28:04] Certainly the copy I read when I was a college student in 2000 or whatever was set on the front like the hair-raising true tales of Hollywood past or something like that.

[28:15] Okay.

[28:15] At a certain point, I don't think Kenneth Anger says this is diehard truth, but I think the legend grew up around it.

Dan McCoy

[28:21] Well, okay.

[28:22] But anyway, to get to my point, finally, at the end of this road, it's that, like, I think that Babylon sort of exists in this world that is like, okay, what if all of the legends and tall tales of Hollywood, like, both –

[28:39] Were you about to say Holly weird?

[28:41] That was just my dumb tongue.

[28:43] Let me make my point.

[28:46] All the legends, like, both good and ecstatic and, like, crazy parties and, like, all that stuff and bad, like, the sad stuff.

[28:55] Like, Hollywood and old Hollywood where those were literally true.

[29:00] We're presenting this world where what if all the tall tales and rumors were, like, this zany thing that was going on all the time because of a sort of print-the-legend feel of, like,

[29:13] this captures something about Hollywood that a literal historical truth doesn't.

[29:21] I think that's possibly true.

[29:23] I don't think it's trying to pretend to be, like, more historically true than it is because it fictionalizes it.

Elliott Kalan

[29:29] I think that's true, but I think part of the issue is also that he's truncated the timeline of Hollywood quite a bit.

[29:33] But a lot of the stuff that Kenneth Anger is writing about is early 20s and kind of late teens and kind of middle 20s as opposed to the era.

[29:43] What started getting to me was there's that scene, that big set piece where they're shooting in the desert and there's an army and they're running around and there's all this trouble and people are getting killed.

[29:52] And it's like, well, by 1926, 27, that's not how movies were made anymore.

[29:57] Like, movies – this was a big business that was done industrial style, you know.

[30:01] And so I think he's doing stuff for effect because then he wants to contrast that with the sound era where it is in sound stages and it's much more controlled or whatever.

Stuart Wellington

[30:09] Everything's locked off because of where the sound is, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[30:12] And I think that's poking at the same place that got me mad when I saw Mank where they're like, we don't like make movies like The Wolfman here.

[30:19] And it's like, well, The Wolfman didn't exist yet.

[30:21] That was a movie that was made 10 years later.

[30:23] I think – and I have to say it, Dan.

[30:25] The movie that Babylon most reminds me of in a lot of ways is Mank.

[30:28] I hate to yank your crank.

Dan McCoy

[30:30] But it really feels like Mank.

[30:31] Don't yank my Mank crank because the thing about Mank is Mank purports to be the true story and then tells a bunch of lies.

[30:39] Like this movie, like the beauty of it is like there's not even – like Marion Davies is like briefly mentioned in passing, you know.

[30:47] But like for the most part, even the characters that are like analogs, direct analogs for people are not those people.

[30:53] You know, it is a wildly fictionalized like rumor-mongered version of history that then also becomes, I think, very touching by the end.

[31:02] Although I will not spoil it for you as you've not seen the end.

[31:03] I'm looking forward to the end.

Elliott Kalan

[31:04] I think the other thing that's kind of getting to me about it – again, I haven't finished it yet, so it's unfair of me to talk about it – is that –

[31:09] I feel like – and this might be another thing that critics kind of get – have riled up their feathers, you know, is that it kind of doesn't – so far, at least in the first half, it hasn't shown why anyone likes movies.

[31:24] And it's so much more about the crazy Hollywood aspect of it.

Stuart Wellington

[31:27] If only a movie showed us the magic of cinema this year.

Elliott Kalan

[31:31] Well, but that's – but so like here's the thing.

[31:33] I'm going to jump ahead to my number three choice, which is – which might be controversial because it's not an exciting choice, which is The Fablemans, where it opens with them going to see The Greatest Show on Earth, a dumb movie.

[31:45] A very dumb movie, which did play a big part in young Steven Spielberg's life.

[31:50] But they're watching it, and he feels driven to recreate the train crash scene because it terrifies him so much, but he wants to be a part of it.

[31:58] And I feel like that movie made me feel – I was like, yeah, that is what it feels like when you kind of fall in love with movies for the first time.

[32:03] And I want a little bit more of that from the beginning of Babylon so that it's not just people – it's not just naked extras dancing around and me being like, oh, how long did that woman have to dance naked while they shot that?

[32:14] This tracking shot over and over again.

[32:16] I want to get a little bit more of that magic in there because that's what hits me in the heart.

Dan McCoy

[32:20] Well, Elliot, even though you're dragging me down, I'm going to lift you up and say that I also really like The Fablemans.

[32:27] It was one of my four-and-a-half- or five-star letterbox reviews for the year.

[32:32] I'm not going to argue with you on The Fablemans because I walked out of that being like, oh, a movie.

[32:38] A movie made by a person who knows how to make a movie.

Elliott Kalan

[32:41] It does feel like – it felt like a movie in a way – yeah, I kind of had a similar feeling where I was like, oh, that's like what – that's like the kind of movie that like my parents used to be like, oh, you should see this movie.

[32:51] And they'd show it to me, and I'd be like, oh, that was really good.

Dan McCoy

[32:53] I'm going to tell you something.

[32:54] This fucking Stevie Spielberg kid knows where to put the camera and how to move it around, how to move the actress around.

[32:59] I feel like I had a couple of experiences like that.

Stuart Wellington

[33:02] I feel like I'm going to tell you something like that this year where I'm like, oh, yeah, this guy knows how to do this.

[33:07] Like I saw Avatar 2, and I'm like, you know what?

[33:11] This fucking dude knows how to make this kind of movie.

Dan McCoy

[33:14] That's the thing.

[33:15] I mean like Avatar 2, like a movie that essentially has like a lot of goofy, dumb, dopey stuff in it.

[33:22] But because he knows how to make a movie, it works.

Stuart Wellington

[33:25] Dan, are you fucking talking shit about Spider now?

[33:27] I told you not to talk shit about Spider.

Dan McCoy

[33:30] Yeah, the feral kid who looks like 33.

[33:34] Yeah.

[33:36] Even though he is actually quite young, the actor.

Stuart Wellington

[33:39] And his last name is Champion, I think, which is perfect because he's a champion.

[33:45] Yeah.

[33:46] So the Fablemans.

[33:48] Before we go on to the Fablemans, I just want to say, Dan, I have not seen a lick of Babylon.

[33:54] To wrap up Babylon, can you give me a very concise pitch as to why I should watch it?

Dan McCoy

[34:05] Tempo.

[34:06] Tempo.

[34:07] Like Damien Chazelle, like the Whiplash director.

[34:11] Like the beautiful thing about it is like it's made up, as I said, of a bunch of set pieces.

[34:15] It has set pieces that are unrelenting and abrasive.

[34:21] And it has set pieces that slowly ramp up.

[34:24] And it has comedic set pieces.

[34:26] I think that it is sort of masterfully paced despite being three hours long.

Elliott Kalan

[34:33] I almost feel like it would be more effective for me, at least as a movie, if it did not have continuing characters.

[34:39] And it was more like the French Dispatch, where it's like almost a one-man anthology of scenes set during this weird time in Hollywood.

Stuart Wellington

[34:45] This is not a time to be a detractor, Elliot.

[34:47] I just need to know why people should see Dan's number two of the year.

Dan McCoy

[34:54] But also, I mean, like it has the exact same arc and beats as Goodfellas and Boogie Nights both.

[35:02] So I was imagining a triple feature of all of them and like what a roller coaster of like up and down emotion.

[35:09] Oh, no.

Elliott Kalan

[35:09] I mean, I guess that's the other thing about – again, I haven't finished Babylon.

[35:12] But like I kind of know where the story is going because there's only one – the story is not going to end with them having the greatest successes of their lives.

[35:17] And they become happy people.

[35:20] Like, but there's – because that's not the way Hollywood stories go.

[35:22] And there's this part that's like, okay, Damien Chazelle, you found a new way to tell the same story Hollywood has been telling about itself since the silent era when they were making movies about how – or like the original Star is Born in the 30s.

[35:36] That's why you should love it, Elliot.

[35:37] It's like a movie from the distant past.

[35:40] The same way that Bones and All made me think about Badlands, this makes me think about the novel The Day of the Locust, which I just reread earlier this year and which is such a great novel about kind of the same themes, you know, but from a different point of view.

[35:53] But I guess what I'm saying is there's always a better version of a thing that got made now.

[35:57] Hey, guys.

Dan McCoy

[35:58] Go see the old version.

[35:59] Yeah, there's nothing new under the sun, et cetera, et cetera.

[36:01] No, I do sound like a regular Marty Scorsese.

Elliott Kalan

[36:02] There's nothing new under the sun except for The Tremors.

[36:04] Yep.

Dan McCoy

[36:06] Well, there's evil under the sun when Peter Ustinov is around.

Stuart Wellington

[36:11] So why don't we move on to The Fablemans, another movie I haven't had a chance to see yet.

[36:16] Elliot, tell me about – why is The Fablemans in your top three?

Elliott Kalan

[36:20] So The Fablemans is a movie that I was like, all right, how is this going to work out for me?

[36:26] Because I have to admit I've gone through a period like I think many film-going men of my age have gone through where Steven Spielberg goes from being the greatest director in the world to being someone you don't take seriously.

[36:38] I call it the Stan Lee arc where someone does amazing work for a period in their career.

[36:44] Then they have stuff that's not quite up to that level and you start to dismiss them.

[36:47] And then at the end of their career, you remember, oh, yeah, they're a legend.

[36:51] Like there's a reason they're a legend because they – it doesn't matter if I didn't like The Terminal because he made E.T.

[36:57] Like – and The Fablemans is a not as fictionalized as you would think telling of Steven Spielberg's youth and how he got into movies.

[37:07] But even more than that, how his family fell apart because of the relationship between his parents and his conflicted relations with both of those parents and his conflicted relationship between his family and film as a young man.

[37:19] And I felt like it was a story – it was one of those movies that feels like a novel because it's not a one, two, three story.

[37:27] But at the same time, it didn't feel like one of those movies where you're like, it's a movie but it's more of a novel.

[37:32] And that means it's bloated and the characters don't go anywhere and things like that.

[37:35] But there's some real funny parts but there's a lot of really emotional parts that show a depth that Spielberg kind of doesn't let himself go to as often, which he's really capable of.

[37:48] And it feels – it's the first time in years that I feel like I've seen a Spielberg movie and I'm like, this is a movie he needed to make and only he could make.

[37:56] And for me, it's right up there with like – maybe – I don't know if it's quite up there actually but it's – there's this world of like filmmakers making movies about why they are filmmakers.

[38:06] Yeah.

[38:06] And the best of those is probably like eight and a half, I guess.

[38:09] And this is not eight and a half but it is – it's a worthy entry into that genre.

[38:13] For a second, I thought you were talking about eight millimeter.

[38:18] Eight millimeter with Nicolas Cage which is really about why we're filmmakers.

Dan McCoy

[38:21] This is why we're all filmmakers to make snuff films.

Elliott Kalan

[38:25] Because all you need to make a film is just to kill a woman on camera and then hide it in a rich man's vault for decades.

Dan McCoy

[38:33] Yeah.

[38:33] I was surprised seeing Fable.

[38:35] I thought it would be more magic of the movie stuff and I was surprised at how much it turns a very honest eye on his early life.

[38:45] And he's like – it's stuff that he like clearly has processed and also he has Tony Kushner to help him shape it.

[38:52] One of the best dramatists in the world.

[38:55] But like –

Elliott Kalan

[38:55] Although there's some – and I was wondering if it's Kushner's influence or Spielberg's.

[38:58] There's a couple speeches at the end of the movie where characters suddenly become very self-aware of their place in the film.

[39:04] And I'm like –

[39:04] No, that's true.

[39:05] Wait a minute, guys.

[39:06] There's no way that he said that something like that.

Dan McCoy

[39:08] But I do think that there's a lot more pain in it and like raw nerve, like actual reality in it than I expect out of Spielberg kind of in general.

[39:19] And it is a movie about movies that not only exalts movies but interrogates like what it is to live your life with, you know, like a camera in between you and everything that's going on in your life.

Elliott Kalan

[39:30] Yeah, it's very much about that.

[39:31] That's a good point.

[39:32] And it's also a good-looking movie.

[39:34] It's a colorful movie in a way that I feel like the last few movies of Spielberg's that I saw were like kind of gray.

[39:40] Well –

Stuart Wellington

[39:41] Yeah.

[39:42] I mean I feel like last year West Side Story was –

[39:46] That's true.

[39:47] West Side Story was also –

[39:48] For all its faults is like one of the few like you should see this on the big screen movies of the year.

[39:55] Yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[39:55] And Fable Men's I don't think you need to see it on the big screen necessarily.

[39:59] But it feels and looks like a movie.

[40:01] Just because it's an intimate story doesn't mean it is shot in a way that feels like television or without – not without that same level of kind of like just thought that Spielberg at his best puts into where to put a camera and how to cut a scene and all that kind of stuff.

[40:15] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[40:15] You know.

[40:16] And it's a lot more I think brisk and fun than the trailers would suggest.

Elliott Kalan

[40:20] Yes, I agree.

[40:21] And it puts the brisk in brisket as I'm always – at this point in my life I'm happy to see any Jewish family on screen that feels realistically Jewish to me.

[40:30] And I was like, oh, yeah, this family feels Jewish to me.

[40:31] What's your face?

Dan McCoy

[40:32] The woman who's like Elaine May's daughter is so funny in that movie as one of the grandmothers.

[40:37] Yeah, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[40:38] Have either of you guys seen Armageddon Time yet?

[40:42] No, not yet.

[40:43] That's on my screener pile.

[40:45] Because I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on Jeremy Strong's Jewish father performance.

Elliott Kalan

[40:51] I'm curious about it.

[40:52] I hear it's fun.

Stuart Wellington

[40:53] I hear it's fun.

[40:54] I hear it takes a big swing.

Elliott Kalan

[40:58] That's the thing.

[40:58] When the other big Jewish performance I saw recently was Amsterdam where I was like, what is this?

[41:04] What is going on here?

Stuart Wellington

[41:07] So I guess to move on from Fablemans, I would say my second place of the year was another film that while I was watching it, I definitely felt like I was in the hands of a capable director.

[41:20] I was like, this guy's making a movie and that's decision to leave Park Chan-wook, a boy who, as I've said, makes bangers.

[41:30] Yeah.

[41:31] It's like Dan has pointed out, it's not as visceral as a lot of his other movies, but I feel like that's part of the appeal.

[41:38] It is like you could distill it and say that it's just vertigo set in Korea.

[41:45] That it's about a detective who forgets how to do his job because he meets a woman who's too hot.

[41:53] But it's just got, like, it's filled with so many tiny little details.

[41:57] It's filled with details that me, an English speaker, wouldn't notice because they're like language-based details about where you wouldn't know that one of the, like, one of the woman's character arcs is that, or one of her traits is that she is not a native Korean speaker.

[42:13] So her Korean is, like, accented and people will think of her differently.

[42:19] Yeah.

[42:19] I don't know.

[42:20] Like, it's filled with so many tiny little details up to the point that, like, the woman's fucking wallpaper has, at first you think it looks like, like, you look at her wallpaper that looks like mountains, but it's actually cresting waves.

[42:35] And the whole movie begins with mountains and ends with waves.

[42:39] It's nuts.

[42:40] There's so many tiny little details in it, and it's great, and I love it.

[42:43] And, again, it's another film that's, like, about, like, a desperate romantic and, like, this seeking for longing, this, like, longing for a connection.

[42:54] And in this case, a connection that once it's, like, once it's found for one person, it's dead for them.

[43:02] Like, when one person stops being in love with a woman, she then starts to fall in love with him.

[43:07] It's amazing and sad, and I loved it.

[43:10] It's great.

[43:11] And it's a movie that grew, in my opinion, as time went on.

Elliott Kalan

[43:16] Grew from the Despicable Me movies?

[43:18] Yes.

[43:18] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[43:19] Thank you, Elliot.

Dan McCoy

[43:22] Forget his job because the woman is hot.

[43:24] You're quoting a tweet, right?

[43:25] I am, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[43:26] I'm quoting a tweet.

[43:27] I think it's very funny.

Dan McCoy

[43:29] Okay.

[43:29] I just didn't want, I, like, I knew that, and I think you knew that, you assumed that all people knew that because I knew it, but I didn't want it to seem like we were just stealing material from someone else.

[43:39] I'm not going to steal someone's material.

[43:40] Yeah, you're right.

[43:41] Thank you.

[43:41] Someone else.

Elliott Kalan

[43:42] It is funny how many movies that describes, though.

[43:44] I mean, like, that's also the plot of Laura, the film noir, and he only sees her as a painting.

[43:50] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[43:51] That's what a hot painting.

[43:52] Well, that's back before we had, you know, pornography.

[43:54] That sounds like a hot painting.

[43:55] You just look at a painting, and you're like.

Elliott Kalan

[43:58] I mean, that was the whole thing with the Mona Lisa is that in Renaissance Italy, guys were just forgetting how to do their jobs left and right because they saw that painting.

Dan McCoy

[44:04] Uh-huh.

[44:05] But with that smile, they're like, with that smile, you know, she knows what to do.

Elliott Kalan

[44:10] Yeah.

[44:10] Well, they would see the painting, and then they would look around and point themselves like, me?

[44:14] Are you smiling at me?

Dan McCoy

[44:16] Okay.

[44:16] And then they try and leave with her, and the guard would stop them.

Elliott Kalan

[44:19] Yeah, yeah.

[44:20] Because there was still a guard.

[44:21] There was still a guard back then.

[44:22] He's doing his job, you know.

[44:24] Yeah.

[44:26] Hey, don't want to kiss at a painting.

[44:27] We got our guys coming in here trying to kiss at a painting.

[44:30] That's what he would say.

[44:30] That's what they sounded like.

Dan McCoy

[44:31] I have thoughts about Decision to Leave, Stuart, but I'm saving them a little further down the road.

[44:37] Okay.

[44:37] That's a spoiler.

[44:38] Okay.

[44:38] That's a foreshadowing.

[44:40] I guess we'll meet Decision to Leave at the crossroads so you won't be lonely.

S4

[44:43] My fellow graduates, for 500 episodes, my podcast, the JV Club with Janet Varney has gathered story after story of all the scandalous things we've done throughout our childhoods.

[44:58] Wait, what's happening?

[44:59] Stories like how Jamila Jamil survived a horrific house party and she was on crutches.

[45:04] This is great.

[45:05] Or how Hal Lublin learned a Shakespearean monologue in his pajamas.

Stuart Wellington

[45:09] This is not the speech we approve.

S4

[45:11] Without your love and life tragedies, there would be no podcast.

[45:15] In fact, I'll have an exclusive look at how Maggie Lawson's mom confronted her after a sneaky basement meetup with her crush.

Stuart Wellington

[45:20] Spill the tea, JV.

S4

[45:22] Security.

[45:23] Listen to the JV Club with Janet Varney.

[45:25] Thursdays on Maximum Fun.

[45:27] Class of forever.

S5

[45:32] Hey, I'm Ben.

[45:33] And I'm Adam.

[45:34] We host a show called Greatest Trek on Maximum Fun that covers all the new Star Trek shows.

[45:39] Lower Decks, Strange New Worlds, Picard, Prodigy, Discovery, and any other new Star Trek show Paramount throws at us.

[45:46] Come find out why we're the most important Star Trek podcast on the internet with our funny, informative recaps of all the new Star Trek shows that Paramount keeps churning out.

[45:57] Subscribe to Greatest Trek.

[45:59] It's a new Star Trek podcast from the makers of the greatest generation.

Dan McCoy

[46:03] The Flophouse is sponsored in part by members, in large part, in overwhelmingly large part.

[46:10] Sorry, I went on autopilot there.

[46:12] We're in overwhelmingly large part by listeners, members of Maximum Fun.

[46:18] If you want to join, go to MaximumFun.org slash join.

[46:23] But we also take advertisements including j-j-j-j-j-jumbotrons.

[46:30] This jumbotron is from Think Outside the Box set.

[46:36] And they say, think Outside the Box set is the internet's only hot take machine.

[46:42] Join us, Maddie and Cameron, every week as we review the discographies of artists that are misunderstood, unrecognized, or dismissed.

[46:52] Start at season 25 to hear us in our full trans and gender non-conforming glory as we aim our gay agenda at the music of nirvana.

[47:00] Or start at the beginning and listen to our eggs slowly crack for five years as we listen to Garth Brooks, ICP, Alanis Morissette, and many more.

[47:13] So that is Think Outside the Box set.

[47:17] You can subscribe to Think Outside the Box set wherever you get podcasts.

[47:23] That sounds absolutely delightful.

Elliott Kalan

[47:26] That was a great ad read, Dan, but step aside because Elliot's got something exciting to plug.

[47:31] Face front, floppers, because in less than two weeks, on Wednesday, January 18th, you'll be able to walk into your local comic book shop and demand a copy of Maniac of New York, Don't Call It a Comeback, Number One, the third volume in the Maniac of New York saga.

[47:46] It's the start of a whole new maniac story.

[47:48] New thrills, new chills, new kills, and maybe a new maniac.

[47:53] We'll see with all the horror and satire you've come to expect from the team of electrifying Elliot Kalen, Andrea, Masterpiece Moody, and terrific Taylor Esposito.

[48:02] So on Wednesday, January 18th, don't forget to tell your local comic shop owner, make mine Maniac by going to the comic book store and buying Maniac of New York, Don't Call It a Comeback, Number One, January 18th from Aftershock Comics.

[48:16] And now, back to the podcast.

Stuart Wellington

[48:18] Okay, so Dan, you tease this with another hot take.

[48:23] Yeah.

[48:24] What else?

Dan McCoy

[48:27] No, it's not a hot take.

[48:28] I was just chastising myself for breaking the rules.

[48:33] But I think this fits in in an interesting way because, as I said, as Elliot pointed out, I like maximalist filmmaking a lot of the time.

[48:43] I like it when a movie is throwing a lot of stuff at the wall and balancing a lot of, I don't know, eggs on top of straws on top of chairs.

[48:54] People do that, probably.

[48:56] Yeah.

[48:58] And Babylon, for me, is that maximalist thing.

[49:01] Tar is the other side where I do like, I mean, like, that is a movie that is doing a lot of stuff.

[49:05] It is not like a movie without style.

[49:08] It has a tremendous amount of style, but it's a very patient movie.

Elliott Kalan

[49:10] It's very, it is minimalist in ways.

[49:12] And so you were saying, Dan, is, darling, you do know why you go to extremes.

[49:15] Too high or too low.

[49:16] Yeah, I do go to.

[49:17] There ain't no in-between.

Dan McCoy

[49:18] Yeah, well, but I'm going to find some in-betweens for my number three.

[49:23] It's a tie.

[49:26] It's two horror movies.

[49:28] Love it.

[49:30] Both do wild stuff.

[49:33] One's a lot funnier than the other, which is sad.

[49:36] But it's Barbarian and Resurrection.

[49:38] And I think both of these movies, an interesting thing about them is they are patient until it's time to not be patient.

[49:49] And then they unleash some of the wildest shit you'll see in horror movies.

[49:54] And for both of them, I don't necessarily want to say too much about it.

[49:58] But they were my, like, two, like, fun spinning off the rails but still in control surprise horror movies of the year.

Elliott Kalan

[50:08] Did you see either of these, Elliot?

[50:11] I saw Barbarian.

[50:12] I haven't seen Resurrection.

[50:13] Okay.

[50:13] So if there's any, so I'd rather you not release the spoilies for that one.

[50:17] But Barbarian I saw.

[50:19] And that was one of my, that was in my not in my top three other favorites category.

[50:24] Yeah.

[50:24] When it was working for me, it was really working for me.

[50:27] By the end of the movie, I had felt it kind of, like, had become a little bit less than the sum of its parts.

[50:33] But it certainly, it was one of the few movies I've seen recently where something would happen.

[50:37] And I'd be like, that's not what I thought was going to happen.

[50:39] Yeah.

[50:40] So that gets a lot of points from me.

Dan McCoy

[50:43] Yeah.

[50:43] No, that was, that was really what, like, the trailer does a good job of not only setting up the movie that you kind of imagine it might be.

[50:53] But then setting you up to think like, oh, I know where this is, the surprise is probably going to go or what I like.

[50:59] And then the surprise, I think, of Barbarian is how wildly different it turns out to be.

[51:05] And, you know, I'm ruining it by saying that, I guess.

[51:07] But I just.

Elliott Kalan

[51:08] Like Tar, Barbarian kind of, but in a less overt way.

[51:12] I feel like with Tar, you know right off the bat, this is a cold character.

[51:15] With Justin Long's character, it's like Barbarian keeps giving you reasons to think that he is going to become a better person.

[51:23] And then he continues to not do it.

[51:26] And I was like, I really, I really admired the movie for being like, yeah, this guy is not going to suddenly, he's not going to change.

[51:32] Like, this is.

Stuart Wellington

[51:33] Well, there was.

[51:33] Yeah.

[51:33] I mean, I think that's an interesting point.

[51:35] I was talking to somebody who said he didn't like Barbarian because he's like, I can't believe you're supposed to be sympathetic toward Justin Long's character.

[51:42] And I'm like, I think you're misreading the movie.

[51:44] I don't think you understand what's going on in that movie.

Elliott Kalan

[51:46] Yeah.

[51:47] I mean, you can sympathize with any character.

[51:49] He won't even just be the baby.

[51:51] He should just be the baby, everybody.

[51:52] Well, that you can sympathize with any character whose life is in danger at a certain point, you know, at a certain level.

[52:00] But I don't think you're supposed to sympathize that character.

[52:01] Although I will feel also Barbarian.

[52:04] I read a piece afterwards that was like, how come the scariest thing in horror movies these days is naked women's bodies?

[52:11] And I'm like, yeah, you know what?

[52:12] The movie gets a fair amount of like scare value out of a character with no clothes.

[52:16] And it was like, I did feel a little bit bad afterwards.

[52:19] After thinking about that.

[52:20] Guys, I have a question.

[52:21] What if.

[52:21] I both understand.

Stuart Wellington

[52:23] What if she got after she got canceled, Tar had to go back to the Barbarian house?

Elliott Kalan

[52:29] Yeah, it's called Tarbarian.

[52:31] Yeah.

[52:32] That'd be so funny if the scene in Tar where she goes back to her childhood home.

[52:36] She goes back to that house, goes down into the basement.

[52:40] Seems like you forgot where you're from.

[52:42] Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Dan McCoy

[52:44] Elliot, what I wanted to say was I can see where that article is coming from on the one hand.

[52:48] On the other hand, it's not just a naked body.

[52:51] It's a like eight foot tall mutant naked body.

[52:55] Yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[52:55] Who's a murderous.

[52:57] Yeah, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[52:57] Sure.

[52:57] Yeah.

[52:57] Of course.

[52:58] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[52:58] I think we can draw some lines.

Stuart Wellington

[53:00] We can all agree.

[53:01] It's a monster.

Dan McCoy

[53:04] I mean, I'll be at a sympathetic one in certain ways that, you know, let's not get into.

Elliott Kalan

[53:09] Like, you know, it's like, and I mean, that the movie, the movie does a great job of making you as the viewer, I feel more sympathetic with the monster than with Justin Long.

[53:19] Yeah.

[53:21] Oh, that's funny.

[53:22] And yeah, Resurrection's great.

Stuart Wellington

[53:23] I mean, that's a, that is a, that's a movie with two like world-class performances.

[53:30] Yeah.

[53:31] And you don't get, you don't get that in a lot of horror movies where with Rebecca Hall and Tim Roth, it's just incredible.

Dan McCoy

[53:37] Yes.

[53:38] That is the, I mean, even if, you know, for people who maybe won't want to go the places the movie is going to take them, I'm being vague, obviously.

[53:49] Like, I think even those people probably would enjoy the performances in the film.

Elliott Kalan

[53:55] That's one I've got to see.

[53:56] I got to put it on the top of my list.

[53:58] Yeah.

[53:58] When I finish Babylon.

Stuart Wellington

[54:00] I got a number three and I also have an honorable mention.

[54:04] I have one more honorable mention, but you go first with your, with your number three.

[54:07] Number three.

[54:07] Perfect.

[54:08] Perfect.

[54:08] So number three for me is a movie that again makes me fall in love with the magic of cinema.

[54:16] That's Nope.

[54:18] Jordan Peele's like horror comedy action adventure movie.

[54:24] That was not exactly what I expected it to be.

[54:28] And it wasn't just because of twists or turns.

[54:31] It was just like, I didn't expect it.

[54:33] Like the marketing kind of misled me maybe, or maybe my brain doesn't work.

[54:39] And it's like Daniel Kaluuya and Kiki Palmer are so charming.

[54:44] And then he throws in a Keith David cameo and a Michael Wincott cameo and an alien design that I have never even considered.

[54:56] It's like beautiful and fun and scary.

[55:01] And yeah, it's just fucking great.

[55:04] Yeah.

[55:04] And there's a fucking Akira bike slide in the movie.

[55:07] Jesus.

Dan McCoy

[55:08] I'm going to toss out a theory here, which is just that like, I think that of late, a lot of the movies I've loved, including Nope, you know, have been the ones that have surprised me in some dramatic way.

[55:22] And I think that for a while, like movies were so obsessed with this idea of like twists and surprising people through twists and people want twists.

[55:34] And number one, that's a very hard thing.

[55:35] They made a whole dance about it.

[55:36] Yeah.

[55:37] Come on, baby.

Stuart Wellington

[55:38] Let's do this.

[55:39] I mean, they even made a whole movie about it called Twister.

[55:43] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[55:44] But number one, like twists are a very hard thing to pull off well, because they're like so entirely like based on plotting and whether the audience is going to think that you played fair with them or whatever.

[55:57] And so you have to be fair while still it's just that's hard.

[56:03] But number two, like we got to a point where twists became so frequent that now like everyone's ahead of them or trying to anticipate them.

[56:11] Yeah.

[56:11] Whereas these movies that are this new crop that I'm talking about seem to have discovered new, deeper ways in being unexpected, like to realize that it doesn't have to be like this narrative, like gotcha surprise, but maybe just like go about how we're going to structure the narrative or like literally like let's do it.

[56:33] Take this narrative in a different direction than we've seen before.

[56:36] And it's not a twist.

[56:37] It's just.

[56:38] Yeah.

[56:38] Let's be a little more creative, people.

[56:40] You know?

[56:41] Yeah.

[56:41] I don't know.

[56:42] It seems nonplussed by.

Elliott Kalan

[56:44] No, I don't want to rain on you guys' parade.

[56:47] I actually found, I actually, one of the categories that Stuart suggested was biggest disappointment.

[56:51] I actually was pretty disappointed in Nope.

Dan McCoy

[56:53] Oh, wow.

[56:54] I feel like I had real high hopes for Nope.

Elliott Kalan

[56:57] Doesn't quote rhyme, but almost.

[56:59] Yeah.

[57:00] And for me, it just kind of like, there were so many things I liked in it.

[57:03] And like you're saying, all the stuff you named, like the performances in it are great.

[57:06] I love that creature design.

[57:08] I love that Akira bike slide.

[57:10] There's a lot of things I like in it.

[57:11] But for me, it was like a lot of elements swirling around that I couldn't quite find the connections to.

[57:17] And it kind of never, it never really hung together for me.

[57:20] Okay.

[57:21] So it just kind of didn't, it just didn't do it for me.

[57:23] But I don't want to, I don't want to tell you guys that you're wrong to feel that way about it because you're not.

[57:27] This is.

[57:28] No, no, no.

[57:28] This is just my take on it, you know.

Dan McCoy

[57:30] But that's instructive too, because I think this comes down to like, for me at least, you know, I don't know how Stuart feels like, like the things that I have discovered about like talking to you about movies and talking to Stuart about movies, like what our personal tastes are.

[57:44] Like, I almost like it better when a movie like throws out a lot of things that like, you know, provoke ideas within me and then refuses to tie them together.

Stuart Wellington

[57:55] Yeah.

[57:56] You know, because I'm like.

[57:57] The sort of thing that I would hate as a teenager where I'm like, I need it all to make sense.

Elliott Kalan

[58:02] Well, and it's not even a matter of making sense.

[58:04] It's more of a, because I, and as, as, as Dan knows, I'm also a Talking Heads fan and they told me to stop making sense.

[58:10] And I said, okay, sir, I won't make sense anymore.

[58:13] Raspberry dishwasher, bubblegum duck.

[58:16] Yep.

Stuart Wellington

[58:17] Hard way to live your life.

Elliott Kalan

[58:19] I did it for six years.

[58:19] It makes it very hard to do anything or to hold down a job.

[58:22] Yeah.

[58:22] But I will not make sense, sir.

[58:24] I think it was more like, I feel like Jordan Peele is kind of moving in a direction with, and he hasn't made that many movies.

[58:31] But he's kind of moving in this direction of each movie being a little bit less tightly constructed in a traditional way, I guess.

[58:39] Because certainly, Nope is very constructed.

[58:41] Like, he's telling you the story as he wants to tell it to you, and the structure is there.

[58:46] But there is, the, maybe, maybe I'm being too traditional minded, but I'm like, I'm curious to see how the story about this chimp is going to tie up with the story of this, of this thing.

[58:55] Oh, it doesn't.

[58:56] Okay.

[58:57] Maybe it does not thematic level that I'm not quite getting into at the moment, but that's okay.

[59:01] But I feel like I'm curious to see what he does next, whether he continues in that direction.

[59:07] Because I think if he goes even further with it, I might like it more.

[59:11] Yeah, right.

[59:11] At that point, when he's making movies that are almost like Valerie's Week of Wonders, that are just like surreal happenings, you know, that you can dig into rather than, I mean, I'm the guy who recently recommended Fruit of Paradise on the podcast, which is a movie where like, you really have to be digging in hard to find the story in it.

[59:32] And so, I think it's more, like, right now, I think he's a little too betwixt between for me, and I want him to go in one direction or the other.

[59:38] But that's just, again, my personal taste.

[59:40] These movies are, from a technical point of view and from a storytelling point of view, it's amazing.

[59:46] He's doing amazing work, you know.

Dan McCoy

[59:47] Yeah.

[59:48] Well, I agree in that.

[59:51] Like, I think that the narrative messiness that is there, like, is genuinely narratively messy and is connected on a thematic level.

[59:59] Like, he's interested in, like, doing these things, making the thematic connections rather than making it express.

[1:00:05] And for me, he successfully marries that then to, like, big budget Hollywood filmmaking.

[1:00:11] But I can understand, like, it's not my aesthetic, but I can understand someone being like, I want it to be tighter.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:19] Or even just, like, there was a certain point where I was like, man, I'm not quite sure why they're so intent on getting a picture of this thing.

[1:00:27] Yeah.

[1:00:27] And I was like, they're really risking their lives to do this when they don't have to.

[1:00:32] There's no reason that they have to.

[1:00:34] And I feel like in a more traditional movie, which might not have improved it, you'd have, like, they got to clear their name or some dumb reason that they have to do it, you know.

[1:00:42] Which I'm not saying they should have done that.

[1:00:44] But there's a certain point where it's like when they're dying where I'm like, this seems like it's more trouble than it was worth to get this thing.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:52] Yeah.

[1:00:53] I mean, again, I feel like that's part of the charm.

[1:00:55] And I feel like having been swept up in the movie, I feel like it all makes, that makes sense to me in the context of the movie.

[1:01:04] But, yeah, I get that.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:06] It's another one that I wish I had seen.

[1:01:07] I wish I had seen the theaters.

[1:01:09] It was one of the rare ones that I got to sit and watch it all the way through.

[1:01:12] But I'm still watching it at home and not in that cocoon of unreality that is a film viewing experience.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:18] Yeah, especially those, like, the opening moments with the fucking chimp in a, like, a full theater of people.

[1:01:25] Yeah.

[1:01:25] Like, not knowing what to expect was really great.

[1:01:28] I bet that was great.

[1:01:29] And my honorable mention is another genre movie.

[1:01:33] And that was a huge surprise to me and was probably the most, like, fun I had watching a movie.

[1:01:40] And that is Prey, the Predator movie.

[1:01:43] It's so much fun.

[1:01:45] It's filled with, like, oh, shit moments.

[1:01:47] It's the first time I've seen, like, a Predator movie in a, you know, since, what, the first Predator.

[1:01:54] Sorry, Predator.

[1:01:55] I was like, oh, shit.

[1:01:57] Watch it do all these fucking, use all its fucking toys.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:01] I rewatched Predator 2 recently.

[1:02:02] And that movie is, it's one, bonkers.

[1:02:05] And two, super racist.

[1:02:06] Yeah.

[1:02:07] Like, everything about it is super racist.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:09] Yeah, it's really great.

[1:02:10] If you're, if you are on the fence and you're like, I'm not sure.

[1:02:14] Yeah.

[1:02:14] Like, you're not going to see, I don't think you're going to see a better, like, action horror movie this year than Prey.

[1:02:23] And Amber Mid-Thunder gives an incredible performance.

[1:02:25] Like, she holds that whole movie down.

[1:02:28] And the dog lives.

[1:02:30] Sorry to spoil it, but the dog lives.

[1:02:32] It's an important thing.

[1:02:34] And, yeah, there's a, there's a specific action sequence where the Predator is just going fucking nuts and it rules.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:42] Yeah, I really liked Prey 2.

[1:02:44] I thought it was, that was on my, on my biggest surprise list where I didn't, I didn't expect it to, I didn't expect to like it as much as I did.

[1:02:51] And then I did.

[1:02:53] Yeah.

[1:02:53] Fair.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:55] Elliot, you have an honorable mention?

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:57] My other honorable mention is the, the other, the other big hit of the summer, Triple R.

[1:03:03] That's right.

[1:03:03] RRR, the, the Indian action adventure movie that is, that there's so many fun scenes in it.

[1:03:11] And it's so high energy and all that stuff.

[1:03:12] And I know that like, there are a lot of Indian film fans who are like, you think that's original to RRR?

[1:03:17] They do it in this movie, in this movie too.

[1:03:19] And I'm like, that's true, but there's a lot of it in this.

[1:03:21] There's a lot of movie here.

[1:03:22] And you still get to have a fight scene where a guy's on another guy's shoulders running around for the whole time.

[1:03:27] And, and a scene where a guy unloads a, a cart full of animals to attack British soldiers.

[1:03:33] In the same movie that there's a huge dance competition number that goes on for a very long time.

Stuart Wellington

[1:03:39] I actually literally just started watching that movie today.

[1:03:42] I'm like an hour in because I want to do a double, I wanted to do a double feature that I call Tar RRR.

[1:03:49] They're two very different movies.

[1:03:52] But yeah, like the whole sequence, like you don't get the fucking, you don't get the opening credits until 40 minutes in.

[1:03:59] Like it's like drive my car level.

[1:04:01] And those opening credits turn into a fucking friendship montage, which is amazing.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:07] It is, it is one of these movies that it is so, it reminds me so much of is Hong Kong action movies from the nineties where you'd have these super like big, brutal action scenes.

[1:04:19] And then you'd have a scene where two guys are just crying over how much they love being friends.

[1:04:23] Yes.

[1:04:24] And it really makes me wish that the heroes in American action movies were able to show emotion much more.

[1:04:30] The only thing that bumps it down to me.

[1:04:32] And chest hair.

[1:04:32] These two guys have incredible chest hair.

[1:04:35] The thing that bumps it down to me for honorable mentions is that at the end of the movie, there's a long song number that feels like that after the, after the story is over, they have this kind of epilogue wrap up musical number.

[1:04:47] About the strength of the Indian nation that starts to feel very like, um, not, not, uh, what's the word for it?

[1:04:54] Not inclusive to all the people who live in India, basically the current government, India.

[1:04:58] And by the end of it, it feels very much like, no, this is what we do.

[1:05:02] India, we have all, look at all these great heroes of Indian nationalism who are all Hindu.

[1:05:06] None of them are Muslim.

[1:05:07] And Gandhi is not here because he was not, he was not as on board with this as we do.

[1:05:11] So like by the end of the movie, I was like, wait a minute.

[1:05:14] Did I get tricked into watching propaganda?

[1:05:16] Cause there's all these great action adventure scenes in it.

[1:05:19] And so I kind of felt like, uh, like, wait a minute.

[1:05:22] Did you sucker me in with a scene where a guy unleashes a tiger on somebody?

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:26] Am I watching a Michael Bay movie?

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:29] Yeah.

[1:05:29] So there's a, there's this, and I think part of that comes from, there can be a really exciting thing to watching a foreign movie that is meant for a foreign audience where they are not like, well, this is the movie that's going to be big in America.

[1:05:40] And so we're going to do it American style.

[1:05:41] You're watching the movie that is meant to be watched by an Indian audience that, that wants that.

[1:05:47] But there's sometimes where you kind of like, I can feel myself stumbling into, uh, into frames of reference that are not necessarily my own.

[1:05:54] And I'm like, am I, am I like enjoying something that is not totally, that I wouldn't feel totally okay about if I was fully aware of everything going on in it.

[1:06:03] And so there's, that's the only reason it's, it's an honorable mention.

[1:06:06] Cause otherwise it's a real thrill ride.

[1:06:09] Buckle up, Stu.

[1:06:09] Cause you got a lot to look forward to.

[1:06:11] I can't wait.

[1:06:12] Have you not seen the dance competition scene yet?

Stuart Wellington

[1:06:14] No, I think I'm just about to start it.

[1:06:16] I think that's about an hour in, but I'm not sure.

[1:06:18] We'll find out.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:19] I mean, it's, there's, if it is, as, as you meant, it is after the opening credits, which as you mentioned are 40 minutes into the movie.

Stuart Wellington

[1:06:25] Yeah.

[1:06:26] Yeah.

[1:06:26] Like drive my car.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:27] Take that, take that tar.

[1:06:29] You don't need to throw all the credits up at the top.

[1:06:32] Uh, great.

Dan McCoy

[1:06:32] Sorry.

[1:06:33] I'm not taking, I'm not taking a nap.

[1:06:34] I just haven't seen RRR yet.

[1:06:36] So I haven't had anything to say.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:37] I think you'd enjoy it.

[1:06:38] Uh, if you, Dan, you're really into three hour movies these days.

[1:06:40] That are like, not a spectacle.

[1:06:42] Yeah.

[1:06:43] Yeah.

[1:06:43] You'll see RRR.

[1:06:44] I'm sure I would love it.

Dan McCoy

[1:06:45] The reason I haven't seen it is I wanted to see it on the big screen with an audience and they keep, they keep having like this and that pop up in New York.

[1:06:55] And I hope that I will be able to see it that way.

Stuart Wellington

[1:06:58] Okay.

[1:06:59] So, uh, now that we've talked about our tops of the year, let's, uh, let's do a little bit of speed round.

[1:07:05] Let's talk about some of our other favorite things that might not have fallen into our, uh, our top threes.

[1:07:11] Uh, does anybody have any favorite performances?

[1:07:13] I know for me, one of the standouts was Lashana Lynch in The Woman King.

[1:07:18] This like super charismatic performance, uh, that like in a way, uh, anchor, like Viola Davis is incredible and she's absolutely fucking yoked.

[1:07:30] I mean, she is so huge.

[1:07:32] Uh, but Lashana, Lashana Lynch also provides this like emotional center that, uh, anchors the whole movie and she's fucking great.

[1:07:40] And I can't wait to see her in more stuff.

[1:07:42] Um, what about you guys?

Dan McCoy

[1:07:45] Well, I have to admit, I just, you know, picked some categories from your list.

[1:07:49] So I don't have anything like I can't round Robin like this.

[1:07:52] I just have the ones that I have.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:53] So for performances, I'll say from the opening minutes of Tar, not to keep talking about Tar again.

[1:07:59] I was like, this is maybe my favorite Cate Blanchett performance I've ever seen because I will, I'm like, I'm seeing a person.

[1:08:05] Galadriel.

[1:08:06] Even more than Galadriel, even more than Queen Elizabeth, even more than, uh, isn't she the ex-girlfriend in, uh, is it Hot Fuzz?

[1:08:14] Where she, she has a mask on.

[1:08:15] Yes.

[1:08:15] And she's in one scene.

[1:08:16] She's in one scene.

[1:08:17] That's great.

[1:08:18] So that she's, it's one of those performances where I'm like, this is not necessarily a flashy performance.

[1:08:23] This is not a showy performance.

[1:08:24] I feel like I'm watching a real person who lives and is not Cate Blanchett, that she is creating a person on screen.

[1:08:30] Yes.

[1:08:30] That was really exciting to me.

[1:08:32] Uh, my honorable mention though, I have to say, uh, I'm going to give it to Margot Robbie because whatever movie she's in, even though I don't, I don't think I'm going to be liking her big movies of 2022 that much.

[1:08:44] Amsterdam, of course I hated.

[1:08:46] And Babylon, I'm not so sure about, she gives her all in every part.

[1:08:50] I feel like she is always acting at a hundred thousand percent and every single part I've seen her in, she acts like this is the part.

[1:08:57] It's like, like she's auditioning to become a movie star every single time she's in a movie.

[1:09:01] And I really, that really impresses me that she is, she still seems to be so passionate about her performances in every movie I see her in.

Dan McCoy

[1:09:09] Well, she, I mean, she obviously, she radiates charisma, but she's also just like so physically precise.

[1:09:13] Like what, you know, whether or not you love Babylon, hate Babylon or whatever, like, you know, there's that long scene where, uh, at the beginning at the party where like she's drugged up, but she's feeling the music and she does like this amazing dance number that she is like tossing her whole body into.

[1:09:34] And is captivating through the whole thing.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:36] In the dancey awards this year for best Margot Robbie dancing, Babylon wins hands down over Amsterdam.

[1:09:42] That's for sure.

[1:09:42] Wow.

[1:09:43] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[1:09:44] Oh, wait, was Suicide Squad this year?

[1:09:46] Uh, she was, she did some good dancing in that.

[1:09:49] Oh, I see.

[1:09:49] I didn't see the newer Suicide Squad.

[1:09:51] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:51] But even that's like, whether she's playing Harley Quinn or Tonya Harding or whoever, she, I feel like she's always acting to the hilt.

[1:09:58] And I really admire that a lot.

[1:10:00] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:10:01] Yeah.

[1:10:01] Uh, Dan, do you have something for a different category?

Dan McCoy

[1:10:05] Uh, well, I, yeah, I'm sorry to have gummed up the works.

[1:10:09] Don't apologize, Dan.

[1:10:11] I just have, I paired up, I paired up biggest disappointment and biggest surprise.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:17] Okay.

[1:10:17] A surprise disappointment.

Dan McCoy

[1:10:20] So, you know, don't go breaking Stu's heart.

[1:10:24] I put decision to leave on my biggest disappointment, not because I didn't like it.

[1:10:29] Wow.

[1:10:30] On my letterbox.

[1:10:31] Wow.

[1:10:33] Wow.

[1:10:34] I'm rending my garments.

[1:10:35] Wow.

[1:10:36] On my letterbox.

[1:10:37] Stu, stop smearing ashes on yourself.

[1:10:40] The Keeper of the Stars.

[1:10:43] I gave it three and a half.

[1:10:44] I think it's, I, I think it's good.

[1:10:47] And I understand why other people love it.

[1:10:50] I just, you know, like I, I love Park Chan-wook and I don't want him to not be garish and, and wild.

[1:11:00] Like, you know, like, you know, like, like they're all the critics were like talking about decision to leave.

[1:11:09] And they're like, oh, it's a, such a mature work from Park Chan-wook.

[1:11:13] It's so restrained.

[1:11:14] I'm like, that's not necessarily good in and of itself.

[1:11:17] He's so good at being like wild and doing nutty things in the movies and like making, like just being like a virtuoso.

[1:11:26] Like just let.

[1:11:27] He did this one for Elliot, not for Dan.

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:30] Yeah.

[1:11:30] This was, I mean, I love his other movies, but yeah, that's, he did it.

[1:11:34] He's like, he's like, Elliot, I'm at the same place in my life that you're at in your life where you're looking for emotional connection and not just empty stylistic.

[1:11:41] It's fucking great.

[1:11:42] You're going to love it.

[1:11:43] Right.

[1:11:43] But I do, I do like those movies.

[1:11:44] I can't wait to see it.

Dan McCoy

[1:11:45] You've always been older than me, Elliot, even though I am in fact much older than you.

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:51] I'm going to say biggest surprise positive was, it was a weird, was a weird, this will show you how few movies from this, from 2022 that I ended up seeing was like Orphan First Kill, which we watched for the Flop House.

[1:12:05] Yeah.

[1:12:05] Which I was not expecting to enjoy as much as I was, because I didn't expect it to be as, as kind of like a loony garish pulp movie as it was.

[1:12:15] And the other was, is, is the menu a 2022 release or 2023 release?

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:20] 2022.

[1:12:21] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:21] I watched the menu recently and I was like, going into it, I was like, all right, what am I going to feel about this?

[1:12:27] And I really enjoyed it a lot.

[1:12:28] And it was not, it was not an amazing movie and the satire targets are pretty broadside.

[1:12:33] You know, it's not a, it's not the most sophisticated satire, but I really enjoyed Ray Fine's performance in it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:40] And I think it works better as like a fun thriller than as a satire.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:44] Yeah, exactly.

[1:12:44] I think it worked, it worked as a fun thriller and it's got a bunch of good, uh, pretentious chef speeches.

[1:12:50] Nicholas Holt is fucking great in that shit.

[1:12:53] He's so funny.

[1:12:54] He's such a funny performer.

[1:12:56] Like the, that he's, uh, so yeah.

[1:12:59] And, and, and Anya Taylor-Joy is good in it.

[1:13:02] Like this, it's a, so that was one where I was like, uh, I, I kind of watched it on a lark and I was like, yeah, this is a really fun thriller.

[1:13:09] Yeah.

[1:13:09] I'm enjoying this one.

Stuart Wellington

[1:13:10] It's also a really good performance from Hung Chow, who also gives a good performance in The Whale, a movie that I did not particularly care for, but does have good performances.

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:20] Now, if we're talking biggest disappointments then, if I'm going to pair it up like, like Dan did.

[1:13:25] Again, I mentioned Nope was a bigger disappointment for me just because my expectations were so high for it and it just didn't match that.

[1:13:32] But I'm pairing up biggest disappointment with another category that Stu had, which was scene that really stuck out to me.

[1:13:39] I don't know if you guys saw the movie Athena, but the opening scene of that is astonishing.

[1:13:44] And the rest of the movie just does not, does not stand up to it.

[1:13:47] The opening scene is this, uh, and this feels very like, uh, it feels very Babylon fanboyish also because it's a lot of, it's a movie with a lot of long takes.

[1:13:55] We were like, how did they do this in a single take?

[1:13:58] And it's a single take that involves an assault by a gang on a police station and then them going through the police station, stealing stuff and blowing things up and then getting into a stolen van and then driving away.

[1:14:10] And it's all happening around the same time.

[1:14:12] And it's really astonishing.

[1:14:13] And the rest of the movie you're like, you're like, oh, this movie is going to be so amazing.

[1:14:16] And then it turns into kind of a, uh, kind of a flat, uh, dramatically flat movie that has a lot of like set piece things in it.

[1:14:25] But by the end of it, you're like, oh, this is also a movie about like young people rising up against a government.

[1:14:30] Uh, and there's no real ideas in it and the characters don't really make sense.

[1:14:35] And I don't really know why they're doing anything.

[1:14:36] All right.

[1:14:37] But that first opening scene is astounding, is astounding.

[1:14:39] So it's kind of like worth watching the first 15 minutes of the movie.

[1:14:42] And then being like, all right, I saw what this movie has and then turning it off.

[1:14:45] So that was a disappointment that didn't live up to that.

Stuart Wellington

[1:14:48] For a disappointment, I wasn't a big fan of, uh, Thor Love and Thunder.

[1:14:53] Uh, I feel like it, it was such diminishing returns from, uh, the previous Thor movie.

[1:15:00] And I feel like maybe I've gotten tired of Taika Waititi's thing.

[1:15:04] Uh, or I mean, ultimately just the whole thing felt very lazy.

[1:15:08] Uh, and considering how much money is involved in these things, you would think, I don't know.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:13] Well, the thing is, you, the, clearly Taika Waititi is stretched at the moment.

[1:15:18] Yes.

[1:15:18] He's working on a lot of different things.

[1:15:20] Yes.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:20] And I feel like.

[1:15:20] That's a big part of it, I'm sure.

[1:15:21] The issue, as much as I didn't love Nope, Jordan Peele feels like he is constantly developing and constantly pushing himself.

[1:15:28] And it feels like at the moment, at least, Taika Waititi is not doing that.

[1:15:31] And he's done a lot of work that I really loved, but yet feels like he's kind of like, people are paying me a lot of money to do this thing.

[1:15:38] I think I'll keep doing it, you know?

[1:15:40] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:41] Um, to move back to positives, if I can.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:44] Yeah, of course.

[1:15:45] Nope.

[1:15:46] Now we're just in the, in the dumping part of the, in the episode.

[1:15:50] So Dan, here's what I don't like about you.

[1:15:52] You're too nice.

[1:15:52] Oh.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:55] That's not what you don't like about me.

[1:15:56] Hell yeah.

[1:15:57] Um, uh, so the, you know, this, uh,

[1:16:01] this will get more hate mail for old Danny boy after liking Babylon and saying, I didn't like decision to leave as much as Stuart.

[1:16:11] Uh, my positive surprise will get everyone making fun of me.

[1:16:17] It's bullet train, uh, a movie that probably benefited from the fact that I went to it sort of on a lark because I have, you know, a season pass.

[1:16:28] And, uh, it was what was playing.

[1:16:33] And at that point, everyone had come out with their, you know, bad reviews.

[1:16:38] And I'm like, but maybe I'll like this.

[1:16:40] And it didn't, it didn't spark joy at the beginning.

[1:16:43] I thought it was going to be like what it looked like in the trailers, which was a sort of post Tarantino, smoking aces, lucky number slevin, uh, bullshit.

[1:16:54] Yeah.

[1:16:54] That like clogged, clogged up America's colon circa late nineties.

Elliott Kalan

[1:17:01] Um, but I'm ready to spend at least two days in this Valley.

[1:17:06] Yeah.

[1:17:07] How many heads are in this double bag?

[1:17:09] Better be at least eight.

Dan McCoy

[1:17:11] Uh, I'm dead and I'm in Denver.

[1:17:12] Are there things to do here?

[1:17:16] That's me asking the concierge at the mortuary.

Stuart Wellington

[1:17:21] Anybody got a Zoe?

[1:17:22] I'd like to be killing it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:17:27] Hey, uh, what kind of things do you have in the menu?

[1:17:32] Bad?

[1:17:33] Do you have any that are very bad?

Dan McCoy

[1:17:37] You're telling that even out of this boondock, you got saints.

[1:17:43] Anyway, I thought it would be that kind of bullshit.

[1:17:47] And like on a certain level, I guess it is.

[1:17:49] But, uh, speaking of my maximalism, it just keeps piling on layers and layers and like narrative

[1:17:56] digressions and gimmicks to the point where like, if you're me, at least you stop being

[1:18:02] mad at it for being too gimmick gimmicky and start getting amazed at how gimmicky it gets.

[1:18:07] And like, it becomes less that sort of glib action comedy and more like a Looney Tunes cartoon,

[1:18:14] which is when I started really kind of locking into it and enjoying myself.

[1:18:18] And I think if you look at it as like just this wacky live action crime cartoon, it's a lot

[1:18:23] of fun.

Stuart Wellington

[1:18:24] Uh, so before we move, uh, we move on to wrap this whole thing up.

[1:18:29] Uh, we did talk a little bit about how, uh, we don't only watch new movies.

[1:18:35] I feel like we all watch a ton of movies.

[1:18:37] Was there anything from pre 2022 that you watched that you, uh, really connected?

[1:18:44] What was your like best first time watch this year?

[1:18:47] It sounds like Elliot, you watched a lot of 2021 movies this year.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:51] Well, I mean, I was like, I was like, what movies am I talking about?

[1:18:54] Well, of course the last duel, of course the tragedy of Macbeth.

[1:18:57] And I'd be like 2021, 2021.

[1:19:00] But I, so this is, I think this will go down in my personal, uh, movie legend, which was

[1:19:05] this decision, this series of movies that I watched this year that really, I would, that

[1:19:10] where I was at a very low point emotionally that really kind of helped pull me back.

[1:19:15] And they're not like, it's not like go, I went and watched a bunch of comedies and they

[1:19:18] like lifted my spirits or whatever.

[1:19:20] But there was a, there was a night when, uh, I was going to, I was going through a period

[1:19:24] that I have not fully brought myself out of where things that once brought me a lot of

[1:19:28] joy, no longer bring me joy.

[1:19:30] Yeah.

[1:19:30] That same way.

[1:19:30] Yeah.

[1:19:31] And the, uh, and I was like, am I going to watch Thor Love and Thunder right now?

[1:19:36] Don't.

[1:19:37] Knowing I'm probably not going to enjoy it.

[1:19:38] Or am I going to watch this Spanish movie from the director of Spirit of the Beehive

[1:19:42] that I don't know anything about.

[1:19:44] And I watched that Spanish movie.

[1:19:45] It's called El Sur.

[1:19:47] And it was just like, it's Dan would hate it.

[1:19:49] It is a quiet movie about the relationship between a man and his daughter.

[1:19:52] Dan would fucking hate that movie.

[1:19:54] There is no spectacle to it.

[1:19:55] There's a part where he's divine.

[1:19:56] He's using a divining stone to find water in a field.

[1:19:59] And I'm sure Dan was like, okay, this is how his powers are shown.

[1:20:01] Okay.

[1:20:02] What's the, was there a geyser that's going to come out and he's going to ride it into

[1:20:04] space?

[1:20:05] But no, that doesn't happen.

[1:20:06] And I went on, I was on this run where I was like, okay, I'm going to just watch movies

[1:20:10] that I think I'm going to connect with emotionally.

[1:20:12] And I, and three in a row I watched El Sur, Passing and Afterlife.

[1:20:16] I think I ended up recommending all these in the podcast.

[1:20:18] And it was just like, oh, these are all movies that like, I really feel like I got a lot

[1:20:23] out of.

[1:20:23] And it reminded me of like, why, why, why movies are a thing that I've spent so much of my

[1:20:29] life thinking about and, and loving and wanting to be a part of and talking about.

[1:20:35] And it was like, oh, okay.

[1:20:36] So that was really, so those were ones, there were a bunch of other movies I saw this year

[1:20:38] that were not from this year.

[1:20:40] But, but all older movies, Mr. Klein, which is from the seventies, Imagine in Uniform, which

[1:20:45] is from the thirties.

[1:20:46] I was a simple man, which is from just a couple of years ago.

[1:20:49] And then like, there's this Japanese movie called Fighting Allergy.

[1:20:52] There's this, I really liked The Lost Daughter, which is also from 2021 that I finally saw

[1:20:57] this year.

[1:20:58] And like this Agnes Varda movie called One Sings, The Other Doesn't.

[1:21:01] I think these are all movies that I might've recommended on the show, but like, that I just,

[1:21:04] I, I went, I realized like, oh, okay, there's a lot of movies that I saw this year.

[1:21:08] And it was always better for me when instead of seeing the movie that everyone was talking

[1:21:12] about, because it's the biggest thing that happens to be out at the moment.

[1:21:15] I saw the thing that I had a sense might say something to me.

[1:21:20] And so that was really the best, the best part of 2022 in terms of movie.

[1:21:23] That's got to feel good that you're like instincts were right.

[1:21:27] Yes.

[1:21:27] Well, that's the other thing is it's like, it feels good when you are, when you feel like

[1:21:31] you are out of step with the way a lot of mainstream entertainment is right now, which

[1:21:35] is weird for me since mainstream entertainment is essentially built off of Marvel comics, which

[1:21:39] has been in my bones for, you know, 30 years now.

[1:21:42] Bones and all?

[1:21:43] That like, yeah, bones.

[1:21:44] Look, it's a, Spider-Man's in there, bones and all.

[1:21:47] Bones and all.

[1:21:48] That, yeah, it's all those bones, uh, that, even crossbones, the Captain America villain.

[1:21:52] Absolutely.

[1:21:53] Yep.

[1:21:53] Yeah.

[1:21:54] Red Skull.

[1:21:55] He's just, his head is a bone.

[1:21:56] He's a bone.

[1:21:57] Yeah.

[1:21:57] It's a bone.

[1:21:57] Yeah.

[1:21:59] Uh, that's.

[1:22:00] Dry bones.

Stuart Wellington

[1:22:00] That it was like, oh wait.

[1:22:01] Yep.

[1:22:02] The dry bones from Mario will show up in Marvel comics sometimes.

Elliott Kalan

[1:22:07] I mean, eventually, at some point, Disney's going to buy Nintendo.

[1:22:10] And Chris Pratt will look at the camera and be like, well, that happened.

Stuart Wellington

[1:22:14] And we're like, okay, here's my money.

Elliott Kalan

[1:22:17] And it was, it reminded me that like, the movies I see, I mean, I was never limited this

[1:22:23] way.

[1:22:23] Cause as you guys know, I watch old stuff all the time, but the movies I see and that I

[1:22:26] care about and I talk about don't have to be just what's out at the moment.

[1:22:30] And don't have to be the thing that the studios man tell me that I'm supposed to care about.

[1:22:36] And that I had, I don't remember if I mentioned this in the podcast before, but I had a conversation with John Hodgman earlier this year where we were talking

[1:22:43] about Moon Knight and he was like, it's not, it's like, he's like, you know, you don't, you don't,

[1:22:47] it's fun, but it's not essential.

[1:22:48] And I was like, John, none of it's essential.

[1:22:51] We don't have to watch any of these.

[1:22:53] We can watch whatever we want.

[1:22:54] And it was great to like take the reins of my own movie viewing and be like, I'm going to watch what I want.

[1:22:58] And to be rewarded so richly with movies that really, that really touched me in a way that I hadn't been touched in a while.

[1:23:05] Guys, it's been so long since I was touched in that way.

[1:23:07] I feel awakened as a viewer again.

Dan McCoy

[1:23:11] Dan, do you have one of these?

[1:23:13] You know what?

[1:23:14] I didn't originally, but Elliot was so sincere that I wanted to talk about it.

[1:23:19] I watched a movie from 2019 called It Started as a Joke.

[1:23:24] It was, it's about the Eugene Merman comedy festival that ran for a while in Brooklyn.

[1:23:31] And, you know, it's a documentary and, you know, it touches on that.

[1:23:37] And then spoiler alert, it also becomes about the illness of Eugene Merman's wife and her passing.

[1:23:44] And that's a very sort of moving part of it.

[1:23:47] But along the way, the reason it spoke to me, you know, I can't really, I think it's a good movie, but I can't look at it objectively.

[1:23:58] Because I kept seeing, like, people I would either see on stage when I was trying to do comedy in New York during the same period.

[1:24:09] Or I would actually later come to know at the Daily Show or, you know, or work with or, and stages that I've been on in the past.

[1:24:24] And, you know, it's kind of an odd thing to think that I'm old enough.

[1:24:36] And that, like, you know, I was never a name in any sort of way.

[1:24:42] I just was trying to do comedy at the same time.

[1:24:44] But, like, this is a scene still that I was a part of.

[1:24:48] Like, it's weird to look back on that and see that in an actual movie about something.

[1:24:56] So that was a touching movie to see and one that I enjoyed a lot.

Stuart Wellington

[1:25:02] Yeah.

[1:25:02] I mean, in a way, the movie that I think had the biggest impact on me is kind of similar in some ways to both where Dan was at and where Elliot's at.

[1:25:14] Back in February, right before my birthday, I flew out.

[1:25:19] I had to fly out to Portland because my mother-in-law's husband passed away at the last minute.

[1:25:26] And we, I, on the flight, I have a tendency to, like, download movies onto my iPad, onto my laptop to watch on planes because I have this weird control thing.

[1:25:38] And I don't know, I like to make sure that I have as much possible entertainment so I'm not bored.

[1:25:45] And I also have a tendency to try and watch things that say I wouldn't have a chance to watch at home.

[1:25:52] So I watched Oslo, August 31st, which is a Joachim Trier movie from 2011.

[1:26:00] He had made, he had made my favorite movie of last year, Worst Person in the World.

[1:26:06] And Oslo, August 31st, is a single, tells the story of a single day in the life of a recovering drug addict who has one day to go leave his treatment center to kind of, to, like, figure out where his place is going to be when he leaves that treatment center.

[1:26:25] And I don't know if it's like being like an elder millennial or something and this feeling of, like, not knowing exactly where you fit in the world and not knowing if you're, where you're supposed to be, if you're at where you're supposed to be at for your age.

[1:26:45] And also, like, coming out of the pandemic and not knowing, like, I mean, we're still in a pandemic, obviously, but coming out of the pandemic and, and just, like, not knowing how the world works anymore.

[1:26:59] It was like, it was a super moving and, like, like crushing in some ways.

[1:27:04] Like, it's a very sad movie in some ways, but it also, like, I don't know.

[1:27:08] It's that, you know, like, even when you see something that's super sad, but, like, you connect with it, it makes you feel good.

Elliott Kalan

[1:27:15] Yeah, well, that's, I feel like that's, that's what I was trying to get at.

[1:27:18] And you said it even better, which is like, when I, when I was feeling down and it was like, I didn't want, I didn't want happy things to jolly me out of it.

[1:27:25] I wanted something that, the thing that reaches out to you and is like, there's, I understand you, you understand me.

[1:27:32] Like, you're not alone.

[1:27:33] And like, that's, and sometimes that means watching a movie about someone whose life is falling apart or is very sad and you're like, oh, they get it.

[1:27:39] The same way, I've talked about this before, the first time I ever had a kidney stone and it was super painful.

[1:27:44] And I watched From Beyond and Jeffrey Combs is going mad and he bites someone's eyeball out.

[1:27:49] And I was like, this movie gets how I'm feeling right.

Stuart Wellington

[1:27:53] Finally, a movie that understands me.

[1:27:57] Well, that's great.

[1:27:59] I feel like, all things considered, it was still a good year for movies and it was a good year for us doing the podcast.

[1:28:07] I had a great time.

[1:28:08] I'm looking forward to another year of, let's say, good movies and potentially some bad ones.

[1:28:18] Law of averages.

Elliott Kalan

[1:28:20] Leading off of that, here's my New Year's resolution.

[1:28:22] I'm going to take a page from the book of Dan McCoy.

[1:28:25] Chapter one, butts.

[1:28:27] Wait, let me move a little forward.

[1:28:28] Okay.

[1:28:28] Chapter two, more butts.

[1:28:29] Chapter three, white butts.

[1:28:30] Sure, yep.

[1:28:31] Chapter four, see chapter one.

[1:28:33] Okay, chapter five.

[1:28:34] Okay, here we go.

[1:28:35] That, where I feel like Dan has said to me, he goes, we'll talk about a movie and he'll be like, for this podcast.

[1:28:40] And he's like, I think you're looking for things to not like in it because you think you're supposed to for the podcast.

[1:28:45] Like, I'm going to go in and I'm going to, I'm always want to enjoy it.

[1:28:49] And Dan has a habit of comparing the movies to other movies we've seen as opposed to comparing them to all the possible movies in the universe, which I tend to do.

[1:28:57] And so my resolution is, I'm going to try to go into the movies that we see for this podcast saying, I want this movie to be good and I want to enjoy this movie.

[1:29:07] And I'm going to go in expecting it to be good and hoping that it's good.

[1:29:10] And hoping that I get surprised.

[1:29:11] And I'm going to go into every movie doing that.

[1:29:13] And I'm going to bring that same energy to our next movie, Black Adam.

[1:29:17] Oh, boy.

Stuart Wellington

[1:29:19] Wait, the movie that was so bad, it made The Rock unfollow the official Black Adam Instagram account?

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:25] That same one.

[1:29:26] Oh, but I'm going to go into it looking for the positive.

[1:29:29] I think I want to take a, Dan and I, we don't love all the same movies, but I think I really admire, Dan, that when you go into a movie, you're like, what am I going to like about this?

[1:29:37] What am I going to see in this that I'm going to enjoy?

[1:29:39] And what am I going to see in this that I haven't seen before?

[1:29:42] And that's big and weird and surprises me.

[1:29:45] So I'm going to try to go into movies with that mindset.

[1:29:47] And thank you for granting it to me.

[1:29:49] I've just stolen it from you.

[1:29:50] You don't have it anymore.

[1:29:51] Oh, no.

Dan McCoy

[1:29:52] Now I have to be more critical.

[1:29:55] That's all I have.

[1:29:57] Okay, well.

[1:29:58] It'll be a real Freaky Friday.

Elliott Kalan

[1:30:00] It'll be a real, slightly different Friday.

Stuart Wellington

[1:30:05] Castle Freaky Friday.

[1:30:06] So this has been a presentation of the Flop House podcast.

[1:30:10] Oh, no.

Elliott Kalan

[1:30:10] I've got to take my daughter's test and my daughter's ripping my ding-dong off.

[1:30:13] That's a Castle Freaky Friday.

[1:30:14] Oh, no.

Dan McCoy

[1:30:15] Elliot won't let you into episodes, Stuart.

[1:30:18] It's impossible.

[1:30:20] No.

Stuart Wellington

[1:30:22] So this has been a presentation of the Flop House podcast.

[1:30:27] Thank you so much for tuning in.

[1:30:29] Thanks for tuning in to the future.

[1:30:30] Thanks for supporting our show.

[1:30:32] There's other great shows like ours on the Maximum Fun Network.

[1:30:36] Thanks again to our producer, Alex Smith, who goes by Howell Doughty.

[1:30:41] And he makes this sound great.

[1:30:43] For the Flop House, I've been Stuart Wellington.

[1:30:46] I've been Dan McCoy.

Elliott Kalan

[1:30:47] And I'm the new hyper-positive Elliot Kalin.

[1:30:50] Go movies!

[1:30:51] Flop House forever.

Stuart Wellington

[1:30:53] Bye!

Elliott Kalan

[1:30:59] MaximumFun.org.

S6

[1:31:01] Comedy and culture.

[1:31:02] Artist owned.

[1:31:04] Audience supported.

FH Mini 71 - '22 in Review

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