FH Mini 71 - '22 in Review

[0:00] Hey, it's me, Stuart Wellington with the Flophouse Podcast, and this is a Flophouse

[0:09] Mini.

[0:10] Hell yeah.

[0:11] That means instead of watching a movie and then talking about it, we're going to be talking

[0:13] about a lot of stuff.

[0:14] We're going to do whatever we want.

[0:15] And today is a special day.

[0:17] That's right.

[0:18] Pop your fucking bottles, pour yourself a drink, because that is the end of the year.

[0:22] It is no longer 2022, it is now 2023.

[0:25] Time to fucking celebrate, right?

[0:26] Yep.

[0:27] Whoop whoop whoop whoop whoop whoop whoop whoop whoop whoop whoop whoop whoop whoop

[0:32] whoop whoop whoop whoop whoop whoop.

[0:33] That's right, 2023 is the year of the stooges.

[0:34] The stooges are back from the dead.

[0:37] Now I wanna be a dog.

[0:41] No, not that stooges.

[0:43] No, the wrong.

[0:44] Okay, sorry.

[0:45] Although I would say Iggy Pop and the three stooges, I think it would go a little something

[0:49] like this.

[0:50] Give me a danger, little stranger.

[0:51] Hey, hey, wait, hey, what?

[0:52] Okay, I will.

[0:53] I thought, I was imagining like this dower chirping, like I have this valuable Iggy Pop.

[1:01] As you can see, he is quite frail.

[1:03] He is a thin reed of a man, do not break him.

[1:07] And then Lou Reed leans in and goes, like me, and I go, you get out of here.

[1:11] Who you call the street walking cheetah?

[1:14] Get this guy, Moe, he's a street walking cheetah with a hide full of napalm.

[1:20] So I think that's a sketch the Ben Stiller show should have done in the 1990s, is the

[1:24] one where the dowager hires Iggy and the stooges to guard her, to be plumbers, and they're

[1:30] so strung out that they can't get any of it done.

[1:34] Oh yeah, actually that would fit very perfectly on that show.

[1:38] So joining me as always are my co-hosts from the Flop House, that's right, Dan McCoy and

[1:41] Elliot Kalin.

[1:42] Hey guys, I'm so excited to talk about 2022 movies and then looking forward a little bit.

[1:51] In general, I think this year was not a particularly strong year for movies, but I do have a couple

[1:58] of favorites and I asked you guys to prepare a list of some of your favorites as well.

[2:03] I'm sorry, I kind of thought the theme of this episode was 2022, Hollywood's greatest

[2:07] year.

[2:08] Sorry, guys.

[2:09] I'm wearing those glasses that managed to put two eye holes out of four digits.

[2:14] Somehow they managed to make it work.

[2:16] I disagree about your assessment of the year for movies.

[2:19] I found a lot of movies that I loved quite a bit.

[2:22] I think it's coming off of last year, which I felt was a particularly hot year.

[2:27] And I'm not talking temperature.

[2:30] I'm actually found that a bunch of the movies that I was looking forward to talking to,

[2:33] because I saw them at the beginning of 2022, were 2021 releases, I'm sorry, talking about,

[2:38] were 2021 releases.

[2:39] So I think Stuart was right.

[2:40] I think 2021 was overall a stronger year.

[2:42] But again, I only saw a handful of 2022 releases.

[2:46] So maybe I'm not the best judge.

[2:48] Films.

[2:49] 2021.

[2:50] I'm glad that Dan is fact checking this.

[2:52] I gotta look back.

[2:53] No, I just gotta see why you're saying this about.

[2:57] I feel like I remember last year, I had trouble cutting my list down to only 10 favorite movies.

[3:06] I feel like Dune even got pushed out of there at the last minute by a little movie called

[3:10] The Last Duel.

[3:11] I mean, I was going to say, The Last Duel was a movie that I was looking forward to

[3:15] talking about in this episode.

[3:16] It's so good.

[3:17] I was so sad to remind myself that it was a 2021 release, even though I saw it in 2022.

[3:21] All your notes about the various wigs got crossed off.

[3:25] Yeah, last year was a good year, too.

[3:28] But I don't think this is a bad year for movies.

[3:30] I'm looking at them now.

[3:31] When I saw The Last Duel, it was a very good year, a very good year for ill-fitting wigs.

[3:39] And Adam Driver being kind of a bad guy, let's just say a very bad guy.

[3:43] He does something terrible.

[3:44] Yeah, yeah, he's a terrible guy.

[3:46] So with it, well, with that in mind, Dan, why don't you convince me?

[3:51] Why don't you share what your top three movies of the year are?

[3:56] OK, so number two is going to be controversial with fucking Marmaduke.

[4:04] And number three is going to be controversial because I said, hey, why don't we keep it

[4:09] to three?

[4:10] Because we probably don't see a lot of movies, all of us.

[4:13] And then I was like, I made it a tie.

[4:16] So I'm disappointed already that number one's not going to be controversial.

[4:20] OK, here it is.

[4:22] Top three for me.

[4:23] I chose Tar.

[4:25] Yeah, yeah.

[4:26] That's my...

[4:27] You recommended it earlier.

[4:28] Why is Tar in your top spot?

[4:32] It's a movie that I walked out of being like, oh, yeah, movies can do this.

[4:36] Like, I mean, and maybe it was...

[4:39] Was it movies can have a needle drop of dubstep at the end after seeing the intro for Monster

[4:45] Hunter?

[4:46] I think, no, it's I mean, maybe it's because I'm watching a bunch of junk and my mind is

[4:53] all gunked up with junk, as Elliot probably would think about it, because we were having

[4:58] a conversation just before we started recording about what about how he likes emotion and

[5:02] I like spectacle these days.

[5:05] And I like I like a lot of bigness and a lot of madness and visual flair and like just

[5:12] like, you know, I like a lot of spice and Elliot's stomach, you know, doesn't handle

[5:17] the spice.

[5:18] He wants love.

[5:19] He wants emotion.

[5:20] He wants sadness.

[5:21] He wants heartbreak.

[5:22] I mean, deep well of when I'm when I'm watching a movie, I want it to hit my heart rather

[5:26] than my tongue.

[5:27] Yeah.

[5:28] Um, but I think that I, Tar is interesting in that I don't think it's either the heart

[5:34] of the tongue necessarily, but it does just something very I mean, I it's a movie that

[5:40] takes its time.

[5:41] I think it I think, yeah, I mean, I'll just I'll just say it hits the heart in a different

[5:45] way than I guess maybe the phrase hits the heart might suggest that Dan's overriding

[5:50] fear of getting canceled.

[5:53] Well, here's I'm going to I'm going to say interrupting Dan because he's taking a drink.

[5:57] I'm going to spoiler.

[5:58] Tar is on my top three.

[5:59] Also, yeah, we're I mean, we're going to spoil a bunch of things and we're going to spoil

[6:02] our list in the process.

[6:04] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[6:05] And I thought it was I loved it because one going into it also, I was like, I'm curious.

[6:10] This is the movie about getting canceled, I guess.

[6:12] But it's not about that.

[6:13] It's not at all.

[6:14] A woman who is refusing to.

[6:18] Refusing to kind of interact with other people's reality in a way that gives them agency as

[6:24] human beings and finds that she is dehumanizing herself in the process and destroying

[6:30] herself. And when I talk about movies hitting me in the heart, I don't necessarily just

[6:34] mean like movies that make me feel warm.

[6:36] In fact, often that's not what I'm looking for in a movie because I get that from my

[6:39] family. I don't need it in my movies.

[6:41] So but the idea that a movie that where I'm connecting with a character emotionally and

[6:45] the thing that I loved about Tar was I was like, this is a character I don't like, but

[6:48] I feel like I am living inside of her brain and inside of her feelings.

[6:52] And I am not necessarily understanding her, but I am living her experience.

[6:57] And when she is destroyed, I'm like a spoiler alert.

[7:00] Her life falls apart when she's destroyed in her mind.

[7:03] She is conducting, as I mentioned before, an orchestral performance of Monster Hunter

[7:09] in front of an audience of cosplayers in Asia.

[7:13] But in front of me, that's like, yeah, you this is the this is the ending you you wrought,

[7:17] you know. But also I think that it's interesting is it it it creates this character

[7:22] who has done horrible things and is refusing to grapple with the fact that she has

[7:28] sort of wreaked havoc in her wake.

[7:30] But it also is like I feel like too many, at least Internet debates about movies.

[7:36] I know I should get off of it when it talks about movies other than putting this podcast

[7:40] up. But like so much Internet debate about it is like this character sucks.

[7:45] So I hate her and I don't like, you know, I guess.

[7:47] And I think a movie like Tar shows that, yeah, you can see that this person has done

[7:53] bad things and maybe you don't like her or like or think arguably you shouldn't like.

[8:01] Well, no. Yes, we can stop virtue signaling for a second.

[8:05] My point is, well, I think that I think you can empathize with her.

[8:09] Humanity. Yeah, is what I'm saying.

[8:11] She's a complex character. You can say like, yes, of course, she should face some sort of

[8:16] consequence. But there's something that is lost in her destruction.

[8:23] And you sort of hope that maybe she can figure out how to be a human to like you can have

[8:28] enough empathy to be like, yeah, you've been bad.

[8:30] I hope you get better.

[8:32] You can empathize with somebody who so clearly needs control in every aspect of their life

[8:38] and wants to conduct their life the way that they conduct an orchestra and wants to treat

[8:44] the people in her as tools to get to that.

[8:46] And you can empathize with that with that need and that desire and that hunger without

[8:50] being like, yeah, I guess I approve of everything she does.

[8:53] I guess she's a saint. Saint Tar.

[8:55] Make it Saint Tar's Day.

[8:57] I guess that's right.

[8:58] Anger's Day. It is St.

[9:00] Anger's Feast, the Feast of St.

[9:01] Anger. And then there's the Feast of Saint Tar.

[9:03] Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say.

[9:05] I feel like a lot of like Internet debate flattens it out where like it ignores the fact

[9:10] that you can empathize with a bad character, in part because you can see that like everyone

[9:15] has the capability to be bad within them, you know, and like you, Michael Jackson wrote

[9:21] a song about it.

[9:23] I don't feel like I don't feel like there's enough.

[9:24] As Homer once said, when kids say bad, they really mean good.

[9:27] And to shake one's booty means to wiggle one's butt.

[9:29] Allow me to demonstrate.

[9:31] I don't think that there's enough there before the grace of God go I.

[9:34] Not that it's just the grace of God.

[9:35] Like she did bad things, but there's also the like sense of like, yeah, there's a whole

[9:42] spectrum of human behavior that we can like think about and, you know, like pour over

[9:49] and like in our own minds and have feelings about that is ignored by movies a lot.

[9:56] And Tarr didn't do that.

[9:58] And one of the things I loved about it.

[10:00] was I love like the little like just visual cues as opposed to like telling you because

[10:05] she travels around she travels around the world a lot she's a real Carmen Sandiego

[10:10] and luckily she got busted unlike Carmen Sandiego. She's a regular Tarman San Diego. Thank you.

[10:17] It was a long walk but it was worth it. We got there. A long walk just like her walking with

[10:22] her suitcase away from every airport. I love the little visual cues of things where you're like

[10:28] oh she's in New York now or oh she's in an Asian country now or she's in Berlin like I love I love

[10:37] that stuff without having to tell you specifically so you're like oh okay so I'm gonna I have to use

[10:41] my brain like I gotta I gotta use my brain a little in this movie yeah well it's like the

[10:46] movie is it's storytelling is is telling you you're gonna need to use your brain on this

[10:51] to figure it out moment to moment sometimes and also to figure out how you feel about it

[10:55] and like I think the thing that I maybe struck you guys that struck me so much about tar is

[10:59] like Dan is saying it's a complicated movie at a time where I feel like I don't see a lot of

[11:04] at least big release complicated movies I see independent complicated movies or foreign

[11:09] sometimes complicated movies but it is I don't want I don't want to sound like a regular Marty

[11:13] Scorsese over here but I feel like a one of the detriments of the of comic books becoming the

[11:20] de facto model of narrative entertainment for mainstream popular entertainment for right now

[11:25] is that everything is good and bad and yeah this is um this is and they're this was a movie that

[11:31] is not going to tell you how to think about this person whether she is good or bad or or what it

[11:35] she is or how you know you have to figure out how you're going to feel about her well also to your

[11:38] point that it's not actually a cancel culture movie like if the if the if the question of the

[11:42] movie is should she lose her job and be punished then the answer is yes of course she's losing her

[11:47] job for the wrong reason is that is the only real issue yeah but if but the movie is not that it's a

[11:53] character study about a specific person which is like the interesting thing about it yeah you know

[11:58] what I like is that they cast Mark Strong in the movie and he gets easily pushed over by Kate

[12:03] Blanchett so his name is not correct he is very not strong I loved seeing Mark Strong as the

[12:10] wimpiest kind of like like like just least impressive person and like I thought it was

[12:16] such a funny performance from him and I know yeah and I say that as someone who is much more like

[12:19] Mark Strong's character than he is the character's name is Elliot I think in the movie and and I was

[12:24] like I thought of you when I saw him thank you yeah I was like I can't be mad at this movie for

[12:28] basically making fun of me like I love seeing Mark Strong in this role when they could have easily

[12:32] cast someone more who looks more like me you know who hasn't played the villain in in you know in

[12:38] franchise films before yeah uh so tar great and I'll say one last thing about tar a movie is

[12:44] starting right off the bat with a interest deficit from me when it opens at a new yorker

[12:49] festival talk hosted by Adam Gopnik and I tell you tar you won me back you won me back baby

[12:54] but that's also kind of the amazing thing about it it's like the movie

[12:58] trusts that it will like you will take the time yeah with it including a long expository

[13:06] Q&A at the beginning of the film and all the credits up front too where you're like yes

[13:12] I watched this at home and I'm like well uh you're really daring me to check my phone aren't you

[13:18] well I watched it I watched a screener of it and I was like did I

[13:21] break this am I watching it backwards um

[13:29] should we go red robin rather than me just running down my ones I don't know whether

[13:33] well why don't we get up at red robin and get ourselves a buffet meal is red robin a

[13:37] not our sponsor Elliot stop fucking vlogging red robin at every opportunity bobbing along

[13:43] yeah uh yeah sure uh Elliot why don't you jump in with your number one I I to be honest I had

[13:50] not really numbered mine perfect I didn't I'll I'll just come right off the bat I didn't see

[13:55] a lot of movies this year in the theaters this was a rough year in a lot of ways for me I don't

[13:58] need to get into all the details Dan and Stuart are well aware of it because I've griped to both

[14:01] them about it this was not an easy year for me and I did not make it to the movies that much

[14:06] for a variety of reasons but uh I think tar might be my number one but another one that I would

[14:12] possibly put at number one which I did get to see in the theaters was everything everywhere all at

[14:17] once which I really loved I think it's if I have any complaint about the movie it's just that there's

[14:22] too much of it about 15 minutes before the ending title yeah that's true but 15 minutes before the

[14:27] end of the movie I was like movie I'm full it reminded me uh of there was a time when uh when

[14:34] Danielle and I went out to a nice dinner we don't we didn't get to go out for a lot and it

[14:37] was one of these restaurants with like if you say it was a fucking red robin I'm gonna kick you off

[14:42] this call no no it was that it was at Inc uh which I think has since closed the Michael Voltaggio

[14:48] restaurant and uh we or they're like we just bring it out small plates one at a time as ever they're

[14:52] ready and we kind of filled up and then we had forgotten that we had ordered steak as a main

[14:56] course and by the time the steak arrived we were not hungry anymore and I feel like everything

[14:59] everywhere all at once is kind of like that where a movie is making me cry and then uh but then it

[15:06] kept going and I was like movie you got me you don't need anymore but that was one I really

[15:10] enjoyed it uh I liked uh I thought it was funny and I thought it was exciting and I thought it

[15:15] was really touching and Michelle Yeoh is so amazing in it and the rest of the cast is amazing in it

[15:20] too um on some level it feels like Michelle Yeoh has always been amazing right like and it's so

[15:26] great that she gets to be amazing in so many different ways in this movie yes she's an actress

[15:32] who at the very least in English language movies I feel like does not get a lot of opportunity to

[15:36] show range yeah and she so shows so much range in it um and like that was one where I literally

[15:43] at work they said uh hey actually we don't need everybody until three hours from now and I was

[15:48] like is there a movie playing right now and I looked up that I was a 15 minute drive from a

[15:52] theater that was playing everything everywhere well at once in 10 minutes and I raced over there

[15:56] and luckily got in just as the movie was starting because I missed the trailers and I was so glad

[16:01] that I saw that in the theater and uh I really enjoyed it so I think that's if TARS is not my

[16:06] number one then that's my number one and that's a movie that uses everything too in the sense that

[16:11] like stuff that seems like it's just a joke at the beginning then becomes like unbearably moving

[16:17] by the end yeah I was like I don't need to see the full arc for the raccoon you know I mean let

[16:23] alone that they sold the idea for me from an earlier episode from the do little episode of

[16:26] the flop house but still that's right uh yeah so uh my number one of the year shouldn't be a

[16:34] surprise to anyone I am a long time avowed uh Luca Guadagnino stan and Bones and All was uh

[16:41] a triumph for me it's beautiful it is uh a rare movie that captures the like beauty and isolation

[16:49] of the midwest uh it captured it has that like again desperate romanticism that I'm a fucking

[16:55] sucker for uh it's filled with like tiny little details and wacky performances that shouldn't work

[17:02] but for me everything works uh yeah it's just fucking great that's the scariest I've ever seen

[17:08] what's the name Michael Stuhlbarg Michael Stuhlbarg yeah he's incredible him and David

[17:12] Gordon Green yeah that was and then I had to look it up afterwards and I didn't even recognize that

[17:16] it was David Gordon Green until afterwards when I was reading about it I think I really I really

[17:20] liked Bones and All a lot I thought it was really great and the only thing that kept it out of my

[17:23] top three I think is the fact that afterward I was really under its spell but then as the

[17:29] movie went on is it is it because you you don't like Sully no Sully you're no you're fine Sully

[17:37] Sully you're fine I never tell anybody that I kept I suddenly started comparing it in my head

[17:42] to Badlands which is a very similar movie that I just love and I was like you know what this movie

[17:47] is great and I should not be comparing it to Badlands but I just kind of kept sticking and I

[17:51] was like it was like um if Badlands if I was trying to sell it to somebody I'd be like imagine

[17:57] if Badlands instead of being kind of a slow kind of poet poem driven movie in a way is a Badlands

[18:03] is kind of like the best adaptation of an 80s Stephen King novel that Stephen King didn't write

[18:07] yeah but it's and so and I feel like it captures so many of those things so well it's a beautiful

[18:13] movie but I my head my brain was just tripping me up on it for that I think it's great I you know

[18:18] this is a movie that I didn't like quite as much I mean definitely not as much as Stuart I don't

[18:24] think as much as you either Elliot when I was watching it although I think that part of that

[18:29] is that this was during the period of time where I was having toothaches because I eventually had

[18:33] to get a root canal so you couldn't even think about chowing down on somebody every time they

[18:38] chomped on a on a on a carny hustler you were like oh my teeth ah only I could do that but I

[18:44] can't it wasn't biting specific it was just the general like fact that the nerve inside my tooth

[18:49] was dying I see and off gassing uh like stuff that couldn't go anywhere because it was stuck

[18:55] inside my tooth anyway gross that's what happens um I like that Dan's Dan's root canal is the new

[19:00] Dan's ACL yeah I mean I'm not trying to complain about I'm just saying maybe that maybe I don't

[19:08] love a movie well I'm in tooth pain but uh the other I mean but it's grown for me since I saw

[19:15] it I just think that the basic problem for me was like the tooth pain has grown for you I don't

[19:20] necessarily sympathize with a pair of cannibals no matter how in love they are and I know that

[19:26] maybe I'm supposed to take it metaphorically but I wasn't able to come up with a metaphor that

[19:31] adequately I don't think I don't even think I don't think even on a even on a metaphorical

[19:35] level to me it is there are people who they can't control their desires this is something they

[19:39] biologically need and they don't like it they don't they're not sully who who has who seems to

[19:44] really love collecting hair and eating old ladies but it's uh you know there's something they're

[19:49] they're driven to do this thing and I have to admit I also outside that there's I think there's

[19:54] part of me when I was younger that would have been like oh imagine being a monster wouldn't

[19:58] that be kind of cool and

[20:00] weird way. But the thing that really struck me this time was like, when they go to that

[20:03] town and they just kind of settle down and get jobs for a little bit. And I was like,

[20:06] oh man, to be a person, a young person in love with no ambition whatsoever, who can

[20:11] just kind of do a crappy waiting job whose only ambition is to not eat people. Yes. Like

[20:17] I can handle that. Like if that was my only ambition, I would be the happiest I'd be living

[20:22] heavenly life. If I just had a job I didn't care that much about the rest of my time is

[20:26] my own. And I just have to try not to eat people, which for me is very easy for them.

[20:30] It's a little different. But for me, that's a very easy temptation to fight. Just I was

[20:34] living your best life. Not what a fantasy. What a fantasy. Yeah. I'm like Abraham Lincoln.

[20:39] I'm damned by ambition or I guess more like Samuel Beckett, since I think that was the

[20:43] name of no damn to fame. This was the biography of him. Anyway, I'm back at the time traveler.

[20:50] And his friend, Al, who in a different light, you want to if if this movie had been made back

[20:59] in the 80s, he would have been fucking Dean Stockwell would have been incredible movie.

[21:05] Perfect. Sully. Perfect. Sully. I mean, Mark, when I was reading Mark Rylance,

[21:11] Mike Rylance is also great in it. He's incredible. You're right. And like

[21:15] Savini's great. It's. Yeah. I told Dan, I have a proposition for you, Dan. If you want,

[21:21] you could call me, Al. But there's a catch. There's a catch. OK. You must allow me to

[21:29] call you, Betty. But if I call you, Betty, then Betty, I'm being presumptuous, but I'm

[21:33] calling you already, Betty. You can call me. He's been working out. Can we do some sort of

[21:39] trade? Some bartering vis-a-vis like one of us could be a bodyguard. And in return,

[21:45] there would be a pal sort of level of intimacy that would be for a long,

[21:50] last long lost pal. It would be a long lost pal. OK. But yeah, that would be fair. Yeah.

[21:55] So any final thoughts on Bones and all? No, my final thought was just like when we talked about

[22:02] Stuart, I like I was talking about how when Mark Rylance first shows up, you're like,

[22:06] is he putting too much mustard on this? Yes. And then by the end of the movie,

[22:10] you're like, OK, I think my only and my only other issue is it was when they're like bones

[22:18] and all it's like that's impossible. Like there's unless you're grinding the bones into flour. Like

[22:23] what are you doing? Like there's no way it would take days. So Elliot, we're talking about magic

[22:29] monster people. When we used to do this in my old apartment, you would get Popeye's. The amount

[22:36] of bone that was left after. Those are chicken bones. Those are chicken bones. They're tiny.

[22:41] They splinter. That's why you don't give them to dogs. Human bones. They don't break that way.

[22:45] They're tiny. They're splinter. That's why you shouldn't have been eating them, Elliot. I was so

[22:48] worried every time. I'm like, this man is going to choke. Yeah. I'm glad you weren't there. This

[22:53] you weren't there earlier today when I was having Popeye's lunch with Sammy while we watched The

[22:57] Last Jedi. And Popeye's lunch. He'll beat you up. Yeah. Please don't tell Popeye that it is

[23:03] lunch. What was it like a shillow spinach? Yeah, well, it was all spinach. So even if he tries to

[23:08] fight me, he's just an old man with no strength at this covered in olive oil. Yeah,

[23:14] it's covered in olive oil. Sounds like it's like it's like in Bronson when Tom Hardy just starts

[23:21] covering himself with the oil so that the guards can't grab him. Yeah, it's a good trick.

[23:25] Popeye, you just got to stay in his blind spot, which is enormous because he's only got the one

[23:30] eye. Dan, why don't you why don't you throw one at us? All right. I'll go to my. We got

[23:36] the controversial takes. This is a controversial take controversy. And it might be recency bias,

[23:41] although I've now seen this movie twice because I went back to see it with Audrey and some friends

[23:45] who had not seen it. It is Babylon. I will not be taking tweets at me or email. The only thing

[23:53] I'm mad about, I don't care what you're going to see a three hour movie in the theater. That's the

[23:59] only thing I'm mad about. To our listeners. Look, I love you. You're wonderful. Thank you for

[24:03] listening. Thank you for being members of Maximum Fun. If you are change, I just don't need to.

[24:08] Like if you didn't like Babylon, that's fine. I don't need to hear about it. That's great. It's

[24:12] fine. But this is where you both feel. This is the first one we talked about that I haven't seen

[24:16] yet. And I've only had a full disclosure. I am, as I almost never get to see a movie all the way

[24:22] through in one sitting. I am halfway through Babylon right now. And what and I am. I find

[24:27] that my take on it does not fall into either camp of what I've seen online. I'm neither blown away

[24:32] by its wild spectacle, nor am I offended or disgusted by it. And you know what, Elliot?

[24:38] I all I number one, I kind of guess that maybe this wouldn't be for you. But also like, I respect

[24:44] that there are people who out there who outright hate hate this movie. And I just kind of don't

[24:49] get it. Well, here's my here's my fear about some of it. I don't know. I think part of it is. And

[24:53] Dan has said this many times in private conversations. I can't remember. He said in

[24:56] the podcast that you think that people are not used to weird things in movies or wild or wild

[25:03] shifts. Well, things that are deliberately meant to throw someone off balance or overwhelm you

[25:08] are taken as bad when they are not bad. They're just they're meant to have that effect. Yeah.

[25:12] It's like it's considered a plot hole. It's a cinema sin, if you will. Well, and also this

[25:18] is not a movie with like a very like like it has like straightforward character arcs,

[25:23] but it is not like a linear plot in the way that also people, I think,

[25:27] are come to have come to expect over the years. I don't know about that. Again,

[25:32] I'm only halfway through it, but I kind of had a less linear plot. That's the it's visually

[25:36] style wise and pacing wise. It's so it's doing so many so many different things that I want it.

[25:41] It's story wise. I kind of wish it was a little. I guess what I mean is it's based around a lot

[25:45] of set pieces more than it is like a story. And it also is like based so much about let's just be

[25:52] in this world for a while. Well, you know, and here's what I think gets and that gets to why I

[25:57] think the other reason it's gotten so much dislike from critics, particularly because I think there's

[26:02] a real possessiveness. I would even call it a nerdy possessiveness about both film history and

[26:08] the past. And I'll say this. I had to. Do we know anybody who's like a nerd for that shit?

[26:14] No one I can think of. And there's part of my watching it. I have to fight against the fact

[26:19] that I have my own idea of what the past of films was like and the the historical inaccuracies that

[26:24] he's got going on, which he's doing relatively deliberately, I assume. Yeah, they are glaring

[26:29] to me in a lot of ways and the way that he is presenting Hollywood as pre sound as kind of like

[26:34] this this wild, nonstop chaos party carnival, which it was not at that time. But I'm going to

[26:40] say that at the same time, like I have to fight against the fact that I now have an unpublished

[26:44] novel that someday I hope will get published about Hollywood in the 30s. And so I have my

[26:47] own personal sense of that, what the old time Hollywood was like. And I think a lot of critics

[26:52] are are not able to let go of that. And it's the same way that like when Michael Clarke Duncan

[26:58] played the kingpin in Daredevil, there were fans, comical fans who were like kingpins, not black.

[27:02] Impossible. What? And a lot of those fans were racist, but not all of them. A lot of them were

[27:06] some of them were just having trouble letting go of their own preconceived idea of what this this

[27:11] thing was. And I think a lot of film people are having that issue. That's my theorizing. Yeah.

[27:16] And well, I would like to speak to that in the sense that I think I also think that it's brilliance

[27:23] to me is in part that it is inspired by these like tales of Hollywood, but it does not purport

[27:30] to be like an accurate depiction of that. It is like like Kenneth Anger's book, Hollywood Babylon,

[27:37] from which this borrows the title Babylon, even though it is not a direct adaptation in any way.

[27:42] But it's very much a spiritual adaptation. Yes. It's the same kind of tone idea.

[27:45] Well, exactly. As it's been it's been widely debunked a lot of the stories,

[27:50] but also even when it was published, it didn't purport to be the truth. These were rumors and

[27:56] innuendo that he had accrued and put into a book and sometimes just made up. Certainly,

[28:04] certainly the copy I read when I was a college student in 2000 or whatever was

[28:09] said on the front, like the like the hair raising true tales of Hollywood past.

[28:14] OK, OK. At a certain point, I don't think Kenneth Anger says this is this is diehard truth. But I

[28:19] think the legend right up around it, you know. Well, OK. But anyway, to get to my point, finally,

[28:26] at the end of this road, it's that like I think that Babylon sort of exists in this world that

[28:31] is like, OK, what if all of the legends and tall tales of Hollywood, Hollywood, like both?

[28:39] Were you about to say Hollywood? I that was just my dumb tongue. Let me make my point.

[28:44] All the legends like both good and ecstatic and like crazy parties and like all that stuff and

[28:53] bad, like the sad stuff, like a Hollywood, an old Hollywood where those were literally true.

[29:00] We're presenting this world where what if all the tall tales and rumors were like this zany thing

[29:06] that was going on all the time because of a sort of print, the legend feel of like this

[29:13] captures something about Hollywood that a literal historical truth doesn't, you know,

[29:21] and I don't think it's trying to pretend to be like more historically true than it is, you know,

[29:27] I think part of the fictionalizes it. I think that's true. But I think part of the issue is

[29:30] also that he's truncated the timeline of Hollywood quite a bit. A lot of the stuff

[29:34] that Kenneth Anger is writing about is is early 20s and kind of late teens and kind of mid middle

[29:41] 20s as opposed to the era. What started getting to me was there's that scene, that big set piece

[29:46] where they're shooting in the desert and there's an army and they're running around and there's all

[29:50] the trouble and people are getting killed. And it's like, well, by 1926, 27, that's not how

[29:56] movies were made anymore. Like movies. This was that this was a big business that was done.

[30:00] industrial style you know and so I think he's doing stuff for effect because then he wants

[30:05] to contrast that with the sound era where it is in sound stages and it's much more controlled or

[30:09] whatever everything's locked off because of the where the sound is yeah but it's and it's I think

[30:13] that's poking at the same place that got me mad when I saw Manc where they're like we don't like

[30:18] make movies like the Wolfman here and it's like well the Wolfman didn't exist yet that was a movie

[30:22] that was made 10 years later I think and I have to say it Dan but the movie that Babylon most

[30:26] reminds me of in a lot of ways is Manc. I hate to yank your crank but it really feels like Manc.

[30:31] Don't don't yank my Manc crank because the thing about Manc is Manc purports to be the true story

[30:37] that tells a bunch of lies like this movie like the beauty of it is like I like there's not even

[30:43] like Marion Davies is like briefly mentioned in passing you know like but like for the most part

[30:48] even the characters that are like analogs direct analogs for people are not those people you know

[30:54] it is a wildly fictionalized like rumor-mongered version of history that then also becomes I think

[31:01] very touching by the end although I will not spoil it for you I'm looking forward to the end I think

[31:04] the other thing that's kind of getting to me about it again I haven't finished it yet so it's unfair

[31:07] for me to talk about it is that I feel like I think and this might be another thing that critics

[31:12] kind of get have have riled up their feathers you know is that it kind of doesn't so far at

[31:18] least in the first half it hasn't shown why anyone likes movies and it's so much more about

[31:26] the crazy Hollywood aspect if only a movie showed us the magic of cinema this year yeah but so like

[31:32] here's the here's the thing I'm gonna jump ahead to my number three choice which is which might be

[31:37] controversial because it's it's not an exciting choice which is the Fablemans where it opens with

[31:42] them going to see the greatest show on earth a dumb movie a very dumb movie which and which did

[31:48] play a big part in young Steven Spielberg's life but they're watching it and he feels driven to

[31:53] recreate the train crash scene because it terrifies him so much but he wants to be a part of it and I

[31:58] feel like that movie made me feel it like I was like yeah that is what it feels like when you

[32:02] kind of fall in love with movies for the first time and I want a little bit more of that from

[32:05] the beginning of Babylon so that it's not just people it's just not just naked extras dancing

[32:11] around and me being like oh how long did that woman have to dance naked while they shot this

[32:15] tracking shot over and over again I want to get a little bit more of that magic in there because

[32:18] that's what hits me in the heart well Elliot even though you're dragging me down I'm gonna lift you

[32:23] up and say that I also really like the Fablemans a it was one of my you know four and a half or

[32:30] five star letterbox reviews for the year I I like I'm not gonna I'm not gonna argue with you on the

[32:35] Fablemans because like I walked out of that being like oh a movie a movie made by a person who knows

[32:40] how to make a movie it does feel like it felt like a movie in a way yeah I kind of had a similar

[32:45] feeling where I was like oh that's like what that's what like the kind of movie that like my

[32:49] parents used to be like oh you should see this movie and they yeah to me and I'd be like oh that

[32:52] was really good I'm gonna tell you something this fucking Stevie Spielberg kid knows where to put

[32:56] the camera and how to move it around how to move the actress around it's like I feel like I had a

[33:00] couple experiences like that this year where I'm like oh yeah this guy knows how to do this yeah

[33:07] like I saw Avatar 2 and I'm like you know what this fucking dude knows how to make this kind of

[33:13] movie that's the thing I mean like Avatar 2 like a movie that essentially has like a lot of goofy

[33:21] dumb dopey stuff in it but because you know is how to make a movie it works about spider now

[33:27] I told you not to talk shit about spider yeah the feral kid who looks like 33

[33:34] yeah even though he is actually quite young the actor but and his last name is champion I think

[33:42] which is perfect because he's a champion yeah um so the fable men's before we go into the

[33:49] fable men's I just want to say Dan can you get I have not seen a lick of Babylon to wrap up Babylon

[33:56] can you give me a very concise pitch as to why I should watch it uh

[34:05] tempo tempo like Damien Chazelle like the thing like the whiplash director like the

[34:11] beautiful thing about it is like it's made up as I said of a bunch of set pieces it has set

[34:16] pieces that are unrelenting and uh abrasive and set pieces that slowly ramp up and that has

[34:25] comedic set piece I like I think that it is sort of masterfully paced despite being okay

[34:32] three hours long I almost feel like it would be more effective for me at least as a movie if it

[34:36] did not have continuing characters and it was more like the French dispatch where it's like almost a

[34:41] one-man anthology of scenes set yeah this weird time in Hollywood this is not a time to be a

[34:46] detractor Elliot I just need to know why people should see Dan's number what number two of the

[34:53] year uh but also I mean like it has the same the exact same like arc and beats as uh Goodfellas and

[35:00] Boogie Nights both so yeah I was imagining a a triple feature of all of them and like what a

[35:06] roller coaster of like up and down emotion I mean I guess that's the other thing about again I haven't

[35:11] finished Babylon but like I kind of know where the story is going because there's only one yeah the

[35:14] story is not going to end with them having the greatest successes of their lives and they become

[35:18] and they become happy people like but there's because that's not the way Hollywood stories go

[35:22] and they're just probably just like okay Damien Chazelle you found a new way to tell the same

[35:26] story Hollywood has been telling about itself since the silent era when they were making movies

[35:31] about how that may or like the original star is born in the 30s you know that's why I should love

[35:36] it Elliot it's like a movie from the past the same way that Bonesmall made me think about Badlands

[35:42] this makes me think about the novel The Day of the Locust which I just reread earlier this year

[35:47] and which is such a great novel about kind of the same themes you know but from a different

[35:51] point of view but uh so I guess what I'm saying is there's always a better version of a thing that

[35:56] got made now hey guys go see the old version yeah there's nothing new under the sun it's

[36:02] there's nothing new under the sun except for the tremors yep uh well there's evil under the sun

[36:08] when Peter Ustinov is around that's right uh so why don't we move on to The Fablemans another

[36:14] movie I haven't had a chance to see yet Elliot tell me about the why why is The Fablemans in

[36:19] your top three so The Fablemans is a movie that I was uh I was like all right how is this going to

[36:25] work out for me because I have to admit I've gone through period like I think many film going men

[36:32] of my age have gone through where Steven Spielberg goes from being the greatest director in the world

[36:36] to being someone you don't take seriously I call it the Stan Lee arc where someone does amazing

[36:42] work for a period in their career then they have stuff that's not quite up to that level and you

[36:46] start to dismiss them and then at the end of their career you remember oh yeah they're a legend

[36:51] like there's a reason they're a legend because they make because it doesn't matter if I didn't

[36:54] like The Terminal because he made E.T. like that so and The Fablemans is a not as fictionalized as

[37:02] you would think telling of Spielberg's youth and how he got into movies but even more than that

[37:08] how his family fell apart because of the relationship between his parents and his

[37:13] conflicted relations with both of those parents and his conflicted relationship between his family

[37:18] and film as a young man and I felt like it was a story it was one of those movies that feels like

[37:23] a novel because it's not a one two three story but at the same time it didn't feel like one of

[37:29] those movies where you're like it's a movie but it's more of a novel and that means it's bloated

[37:33] and the characters don't go anywhere and things like that there's some real funny parts but

[37:37] there's a lot of really emotional parts that show a depth that Spielberg kind of doesn't let himself

[37:45] go to as often which he's really capable of and it feels it's the first time in years that I feel

[37:51] like I've seen a Spielberg movie and I'm like this is a movie he needed to make and only he

[37:55] could make and for me it's right up there with like maybe I don't know if it's quite up there

[37:59] actually but it's it's it's there's this world of like filmmakers making movies about why they

[38:05] are filmmakers yeah and the best of those is probably like eight and a half I guess and this

[38:09] is not eight and a half but it is it's a worthy entry into that genre for a second I thought you

[38:14] were talking about eight millimeter eight millimeter with Nicolas Cage which is really

[38:20] about why we're why we're filming this is why we're all filmmakers so make enough films because

[38:25] all you need to do all you need to make a film is just to kill a woman on camera and then have

[38:29] and then hide it in a rich man's vault for decades uh yeah I I was surprised seeing

[38:34] fable events like I I thought it would be more magic of the movie stuff and I was surprised at

[38:40] how much it it turns a very honest eye on his early life and he's like it's stuff that he like

[38:46] clearly has processed and also you know he has Tony Kushner to help him shape it one of the

[38:52] best uh dramatists in the world but like although there's some and I was wondering if it's Kushner's

[38:57] influence for Spielberg's there's a couple speeches at the end of the movie where characters

[39:00] suddenly become very self-aware of their point their place in the film and I'm like oh that's

[39:04] true wait a minute guys there's no way that he he said that's something like that but I do I do

[39:09] think that there's a lot more pain in it and like raw nerve like actual reality in it than I expect

[39:16] out of Spielberg kind of in general and it is a movie about movies that not only exalts movies

[39:22] but interrogates like what it is to live your life when with you know like a camera in between

[39:28] you and everything that's going on in your life yeah it's very much about that that's a good point

[39:32] and it's and it's also a good looking movie it's a colorful movie in a way that I feel like the

[39:36] last few movies of Spielberg's that I saw were like kind of gray you know well yeah did you what

[39:42] I mean I feel like last year West Side Story was you know for all its faults yeah is like one of

[39:50] the few like you should see this on the big screen movies of the year yeah and fable means I

[39:56] don't think you need to see it on the big screen necessarily but it's but it but it's

[40:00] feels and looks like a movie just because it's an intimate story doesn't mean it is

[40:03] shot in a way that feels like television or without not without that same level of kind of like

[40:10] just thought that Spielberg at his best puts into where to put a camera and how to cut a

[40:14] scene and all that kind of yeah you know adds a lot more i think brisk and fun than

[40:19] the trailers would suggest yes i agree and it puts the risk in brisket as i'm always at this

[40:24] point in my life i'm happy to see any jewish family on screen that feels realistically

[40:29] jewish to me and oh yeah this family feels what's your face the woman who's like elaine

[40:33] may's daughter is so funny in that movie as one of the grandmothers yeah yeah have have either

[40:39] you guys seen uh armageddon time yet no not yet that's just my screener pile because i'm really

[40:45] interested to hear your thoughts on jeremy strong's jewish father performance i'm curious

[40:52] i hear it's fun i hear it's fun i hear it takes a big swing um so that's the thing is when when

[40:59] my when the other jew with the other big jewish performance i saw recently was amsterdam where i

[41:02] was like what is this what is going on here uh so uh i guess to to move on from fabelman's i would

[41:11] say my second place of the year uh was another film that while i was watching it i definitely

[41:17] felt like i was in the hands of a capable director i was like this guy's making a movie

[41:22] and that's decision to leave park chan-wook a boy who as i've said makes bangers uh yeah it uh

[41:32] it's like like dan has pointed out it's not as visceral as a lot of his other movies but i feel

[41:37] like that's part of the appeal it is like you could you could distill it and say that it's just

[41:41] vertigo set in south you know set in korea uh that it's uh that it's about a detective who

[41:49] forgets how to do his job because he meets a woman who's too hot um but it's just got like

[41:55] it's filled with so many tiny little details it's filled with details that me an english speaker

[42:01] wouldn't notice because they're like language-based details about where you wouldn't know that one of

[42:06] the like one of the woman's character arcs is that or one of her traits is that she is not a

[42:12] native korean speaker so her korean is like accented and people will think of her differently

[42:18] uh yeah i don't know like it's filled with so many tiny little details up to the point that like

[42:24] like uh the the the woman's fucking wallpaper has at first you think it looks a lot like

[42:31] you look at her wallpaper that looks like mountains but it's actually cresting waves

[42:36] and the whole movie begins with mountains and ends with waves it's nuts uh there's so many tiny

[42:41] little details in it and it's great and i love it and again it's another film that's like about like

[42:47] a desperate romantic and like this seeking for longing uh this like longing for a connection

[42:53] and uh in this case a connection that once it's like once it's found for one person uh it's dead

[43:01] for them like when one person stops falling being in love with a woman she then starts to fall in

[43:07] love with him it's amazing and sad and i loved it uh it's great and it's a movie that grew in my uh

[43:13] in my uh opinion as time went on grew from the despicable me movies yes yeah

[43:22] forgets his job because the woman is hot you're quoting a tweet right i am yeah i'm quoting a

[43:27] tweet i think it's very funny okay i just didn't want i like i i knew that and i think you knew

[43:32] that you assumed that all people knew that because i knew it but i didn't want it to seem like we

[43:37] were just stealing material from i'm not gonna steal someone's material yeah you're right thank

[43:41] you someone else it is funny how many movies that describes though i mean like that's also the plot

[43:45] of laura the film noir and yeah he only sees her as a painting yeah that's what it's what a hot

[43:52] paint well that's the back before we had that sounds like a hot painting you just look at a

[43:56] painting and you're like that's what i mean that was the whole thing with the mona lisa is that in

[44:00] renaissance italy guys were just forgetting how to do their jobs left and right because they saw

[44:03] that painting uh-huh but with that smile they're like with that smile you know she knows what to

[44:09] do yeah well they would they would see the painting and then they would look around and

[44:12] point themselves like me are you are you looking smiling okay and then they try and leave with her

[44:18] and the guard would stop them but yeah yeah because there was still a guard he's doing his job you

[44:24] know yeah yeah hey you don't want to kiss at a painting you got a guy's coming in here trying

[44:28] to kiss at a painting that's what you would say that's what they sounded like i have thoughts

[44:32] about decision to leave stewart but i'm saving them a little further down the road okay that's

[44:37] a spoiler okay that's a i guess we'll meet decision across roads so you won't be lonely

[44:43] my fellow graduates for 500 episodes my podcast the jv club with janet varney has gathered story

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[46:34] think outside the box set and they say think outside the box set is the internet's only hot

[46:41] take machine join us maddie and cameron every week as we review the discographies of artists that are

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[47:07] to garth brooks icp alonis morissette and many more so that is uh i think outside the box set

[47:17] you can subscribe to think outside the box set wherever you get podcasts that sounds

[47:25] absolutely delightful that was a great ad read dan but step aside because elliot's got something

[47:30] exciting to plug face front floppers because in less than two weeks on wednesday january 18th

[47:36] you'll be able to walk into your local comic book shop and demand a copy of maniac of new york

[47:40] don't call it a comeback number one the third volume in the maniac of new york saga that's

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[47:52] maniac we'll see with all the horror and satire you've come to expect from the team of electrifying

[47:58] elliot caylen andrea masterpiece moody and terrific taylor esposito so on wednesday january 18th don't

[48:04] forget to tell your local comic shop owner make mine maniac by going to the comic book store and

[48:10] buying maniac of new york don't call it a comeback number one january 18th from aftershock

[48:15] comics and now back to the podcast okay so dan you tease us with another another hot take uh yeah

[48:24] what's uh what else no it's not a hot take i was just uh chastising myself for breaking

[48:32] the rules but i think this fits in in an interesting way because as i said like

[48:38] as elliot pointed out i like maximalist filmmaking a lot of the time i like it when a movie is

[48:45] throwing a lot of stuff at the wall and uh balancing a lot of i don't know eggs on top of

[48:52] straws on top of chairs what you know what people do that probably yeah um and babylon for me is that

[49:00] maximalist thing tar is the other side where i do like i mean like that is a movie that is doing a

[49:04] lot of stuff it is not like a movie without style has a tremendous amount of style but it's very

[49:09] patient movie it's very it is minimalist in ways and so you're saying is dan is darling you do know

[49:14] why you go to extremes too high or too low yeah there ain't no in-between yeah well but i'm gonna

[49:21] find some in-betweens for my number three it's a tie uh it's two horror movies love it uh both uh

[49:32] do wild stuff one's a lot funnier than the other which is sad but it's barbarian and resurrection

[49:38] and i think both of these movies an interesting thing about them is they are patient until it's

[49:48] time to not be patient and then they unleash some of the wildest shit you'll see in horror movies

[49:54] and for both of them i don't necessarily want to say too much about it but they were

[50:00] by two fun, spinning-off-the-rails-but-still-in-control-surprise-horror-movies-of-the-year.

[50:09] Did you see either of these, Elliot?

[50:11] I saw Barbarian.

[50:12] I haven't seen Resurrection.

[50:13] Okay.

[50:14] So I'd rather you not release the spoilies for that one, but Barbarian, I saw, and that

[50:21] was not in my top three other favorites category.

[50:25] When it was working for me, it was really working for me, by the end of the movie, I

[50:29] felt it kind of like had become a little bit less than the sum of its parts, but it

[50:34] certainly, it was one of the few movies I've seen recently where something would happen,

[50:37] I'd be like, that's not what I thought was going to happen, so that gets a lot of points

[50:42] for me.

[50:43] Yeah.

[50:44] No, that was really what, like, the trailer does a good job of not only setting up the

[50:50] movie that you kind of imagine it might be, but then setting you up to think like, oh,

[50:55] I know where this is, the surprise is probably going to go, and then the surprise, I think,

[51:01] of Barbarian is how wildly different it turns out to be, and I'm ruining it by saying that,

[51:06] I guess.

[51:07] I don't know, like Tar, Barbarian kind of, but in a less overt way.

[51:12] I feel like with Tar, you know right off the bat, this is a cold character.

[51:16] With Justin Long's character, it's like Barbarian keeps giving you reasons to think that he

[51:22] is going to become a better person, and then he continues to not do it, and I was like,

[51:27] I really admired the movie for being like, yeah, this guy is not going to suddenly, he's

[51:31] not going to change.

[51:32] Like, this is a spoiler for that.

[51:34] I mean, I think that's an interesting point.

[51:35] I was talking to somebody who said he didn't like Barbarian, because he's like, I can't

[51:39] believe you're supposed to be sympathetic toward Justin Long's character, and I'm like,

[51:42] I think you're misreading the movie.

[51:44] I don't think they understand what's going on in that movie, yeah.

[51:47] I mean, you can sympathize with any character.

[51:49] He won't even just be the baby.

[51:51] He should just be the baby, everybody.

[51:54] You can sympathize with any character whose life is in danger at a certain point, you

[51:59] know, at a certain level, but I don't think you're supposed to sympathize that character.

[52:01] Although, I will feel also, Barbarian, I read a piece afterwards that was like, how come

[52:07] the scariest thing in horror movies these days is naked women's bodies?

[52:11] And I'm like, yeah, you know what, the movie gets a fair amount of scare value out of a

[52:15] character with no clothes.

[52:16] And it was like, I did feel a little bit bad afterwards, after thinking about that.

[52:20] I have a question.

[52:21] I, I both understand.

[52:22] What if, what if, what if she got, after she got canceled, Tar had to go back to the Barbarian

[52:28] house?

[52:29] Yeah, it's called Tar-barian.

[52:30] Yeah.

[52:31] It would be so funny if the scene in Tar where she goes back to her childhood home, she goes

[52:36] back to that house, goes down into the basement.

[52:40] Seems like you forgot where you're from.

[52:42] Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[52:44] Elliot, what I wanted to say was, I can see where that article is coming from, on the

[52:48] one hand.

[52:49] On the other hand, it's not just a naked body.

[52:51] It's a like, eight foot tall mutant naked body.

[52:54] Yeah, yeah.

[52:55] Who's a murderess.

[52:56] Yeah, yeah.

[52:57] Sure.

[52:58] Yeah.

[52:59] Of course.

[53:00] Yeah.

[53:01] I think we can draw some lines.

[53:02] It's a, we can all agree, it's a monster.

[53:03] I mean, albeit a sympathetic one in certain ways that, you know, let's not get into.

[53:09] Sure.

[53:10] Like, you know, it's like, and I think, I mean, that the movie, the movie does a great

[53:14] job of making you as the viewer, I feel more sympathetic with the monster than with Justin

[53:19] Long.

[53:20] Yeah.

[53:21] Which is, yeah.

[53:22] Oh, that's funny.

[53:23] And yeah, Resurrection's great.

[53:24] I mean, that's a, that is a, that's a movie with two, like, world-class performances.

[53:31] And you don't, you don't get that in a lot of horror movies where, with Rebecca Hall

[53:35] and Tim Roth.

[53:36] It's just incredible.

[53:37] Yes.

[53:38] Yes.

[53:39] That is the, I mean, even if, you know, for people who maybe won't want to go the places

[53:45] the movie's going to take them, I'm being vague, obviously, like, I think even those

[53:50] people probably would enjoy the performances in the film.

[53:55] That's when I've got to see, I got to put it on the top of my list when I finish Babylon.

[54:00] I got a number three, and I also have an honorable mention.

[54:03] I have one more honorable mention, but you go first with your, with your number three.

[54:07] Number three.

[54:08] Perfect.

[54:09] Number three for me is a movie that, again, makes me fall in love with the magic of cinema.

[54:16] That's Nope, Jordan Peele's, like, horror, comedy, action, adventure movie that was not

[54:25] exactly what I expected it to be.

[54:29] And it wasn't just because of twists or turns.

[54:31] It was just, like, I didn't expect it, like, the marketing kind of misled me, maybe, or

[54:37] maybe my brain doesn't work.

[54:40] And it's like, Daniel Kaluuya and Kiki Palmer are so charming.

[54:45] And then he throws in a Keith David cameo and a Michael Wincott cameo and an alien design

[54:53] that I have never even considered.

[54:57] It's like, beautiful and fun and scary and yeah, it's just fucking great.

[55:05] And there's a fucking Akira bike slide in the movie, Jesus.

[55:08] I'm going to toss out a theory here, which is just that, like, I think that of late,

[55:14] a lot of the movies I've loved, including Nope, you know, have been the ones that have

[55:19] surprised me in some dramatic way.

[55:23] And I think that for a while, like, movies were so obsessed with this idea of like, twists

[55:30] and surprising people through twists and people want twists.

[55:34] And number one, they made a whole dance about it.

[55:36] Yeah.

[55:37] Come on, baby, let's do this.

[55:39] I mean, they even made a whole movie about it called Twister.

[55:43] Yeah.

[55:44] But number one, like, twists are a very hard thing to pull off well, because they're like

[55:50] so entirely, like, based on plotting and whether the audience is going to think that you played

[55:56] fair with them or whatever.

[55:58] And so you have to be fair while still it's just if that's hard, but number two, like,

[56:04] we got to a point where twists became so frequent that now, like, everyone's ahead of them or

[56:10] trying to anticipate them.

[56:11] Yeah.

[56:12] Whereas these movies that are this new crop I'm talking about seem to have discovered

[56:16] new deeper ways in being unexpected, like to realize that it doesn't have to be like

[56:23] this narrative, like gotcha surprise, but maybe just like go about how we're going to

[56:29] structure the narrative or like literally like, let's take this narrative in a different

[56:34] direction than we've seen before.

[56:35] And it's not a twist.

[56:37] It's just.

[56:38] Yeah, let's be a little more creative, people.

[56:40] Yeah.

[56:41] I don't know.

[56:42] It seems nonplussed by no, I don't I don't want to rain on you guys.

[56:46] It's great.

[56:47] I actually I actually one of the categories that Stewart just was biggest disappointment

[56:51] actually was pretty disappointed in.

[56:52] No.

[56:53] Oh, wow.

[56:54] I had I had real high hopes for Nope, doesn't quite rhyme, but almost.

[57:00] And for me, it just kind of like there were so many things I liked in it.

[57:03] And like you think all the stuff you named, like the performances in it are great.

[57:06] I love that creature design.

[57:08] I love that Akira bike slide.

[57:09] There's a lot of things I like in it.

[57:11] But for me, it was like a lot of elements swirling around that I couldn't quite find

[57:16] the connections to.

[57:17] And it kind of never never really hung together for me.

[57:21] So it just kind of didn't it just didn't do it for me.

[57:23] But I don't want to I don't want to tell you guys that you're wrong to feel that way about

[57:26] it because you're not.

[57:27] This is my take on it, you know, but that's instructive, too, because I think this comes

[57:32] down to like for me, at least, you know, I don't know how Stewart feels like like the

[57:37] things that I have discovered about like talking to you about movies, talking to Stewart about

[57:42] movies like what our personal tastes are like.

[57:45] I almost like it better when a movie like throws out a lot of things that like, you

[57:51] know, provoke ideas within me and then refuses to tie them together.

[57:55] Yeah.

[57:56] You know, because I'm like, yeah, I would hate as a teenager where I'm like, I need

[58:00] it all to make sense.

[58:01] Well, it is not even a matter of making sense.

[58:04] It's more of a because and as as as Dan knows, I'm also a Talking Heads fan and they told

[58:09] me to stop making sense.

[58:10] And I said, OK, sir, I won't make sense anymore.

[58:13] Raspberry dishwasher, bubblegum duck, a hard way to live your life, but it makes it very

[58:20] hard to do anything or to hold down a job.

[58:22] But I will not make sense, sir.

[58:24] I think it was more like I feel like Jordan Peele is kind of moving in a direction with

[58:30] and he hasn't made that many movies, but he's kind of moving in this direction of each movie

[58:34] being a little bit less tightly constructed in a traditional way, I guess, because certainly

[58:40] Nope is very constructed, like he's telling you the story as he wants to tell it to you.

[58:44] And the structure is there.

[58:46] But there is the maybe maybe I'm being too traditional minded, but I'm like, I'm curious

[58:51] to see how the story about this chimp is going to tie up with the story of this of this thing.

[58:55] Oh, it doesn't.

[58:56] OK, I mean, it does not thematic level that I'm not quite getting into at the moment,

[59:00] but that's OK.

[59:01] But I feel like I'm curious to see what he does next, whether he continues in that direction,

[59:08] because I think if he goes even further with it, I might like it more.

[59:11] Yeah.

[59:12] At that point, when he's making movies that are almost like Valerie's Week of Wonders

[59:14] that are just like surreal happenings, you know, that that you can dig into rather than

[59:19] I mean, I'm the guy who who recently recommended Fruit of Paradise on the on the podcast, which

[59:24] is a movie where like you really have to be digging in hard to find, yeah, to find the

[59:31] story in it.

[59:32] And so I think it's more like right now, I think he's a little too betwixt between for

[59:36] me and I want him to go in one direction or the other.

[59:38] But that's just, again, my personal taste.

[59:40] The movies are from a from a technical point of view and from a storytelling point of view.

[59:45] He's it's it's amazing.

[59:46] He's doing amazing work.

[59:47] You know?

[59:48] Yeah.

[59:49] Well, I, I, I agree in that, like, I think that I think the narrative messiness that

[59:53] is there.

[59:55] Like is genuinely narratively messy and is connected on a thematic level.

[1:00:00] He's interested in like doing these things,

[1:00:02] making the thematic connections

[1:00:04] rather than making an express.

[1:00:05] And for me, he successfully marries that

[1:00:08] then to like big budget Hollywood filmmaking.

[1:00:11] But I can understand, like, it's not my aesthetic,

[1:00:16] but I can understand someone being like,

[1:00:17] I want it to be tighter.

[1:00:19] Like, I want it to be like-

[1:00:20] Or even just like, there was a certain point

[1:00:21] where I was like, man, I don't,

[1:00:23] I'm not quite sure why they're so intent

[1:00:25] on getting a picture of this thing.

[1:00:27] Like, and I was like, they're really

[1:00:29] risking their lives to do this

[1:00:31] when they don't have to.

[1:00:32] There's no reason that they have to.

[1:00:34] And I feel like in a more traditional movie,

[1:00:36] which might not have improved it,

[1:00:37] you'd have like, they got to clear their name

[1:00:40] or some dumb reason that they have to do it,

[1:00:42] you know, which I'm not saying they should have done that.

[1:00:44] But there's a certain point where it's like,

[1:00:45] when they're dying, where I'm like,

[1:00:47] this seems like it's more trouble than it was worth

[1:00:50] to get this thing.

[1:00:52] Yeah, I feel, I mean, again,

[1:00:54] I feel like that's part of the charm.

[1:00:56] And I feel like having been swept up in the movie,

[1:01:00] that makes sense to me in the context of the movie.

[1:01:04] But yeah, I get that.

[1:01:06] My-

[1:01:07] It's another one that I wish I had seen.

[1:01:08] I wish I had seen the theaters.

[1:01:09] It was one of the rare ones that I got to sit

[1:01:11] and watch it all the way through,

[1:01:12] but I'm still watching it at home

[1:01:13] and not in that cocoon of unreality

[1:01:16] that is a film viewing experience.

[1:01:18] Yeah, especially those like,

[1:01:20] the opening moments with the fucking chimp

[1:01:22] in a full theater of people,

[1:01:25] like not knowing what to expect was really great.

[1:01:28] That was great.

[1:01:29] And my honorable mention is another genre movie.

[1:01:33] And that was a huge surprise to me

[1:01:36] and was probably the most like fun I had watching a movie.

[1:01:40] And that is Prey, the Predator movie.

[1:01:43] It's so much fun.

[1:01:45] It's filled with like, oh shit moments.

[1:01:47] It's the first time I've seen like a Predator movie

[1:01:50] in a, you know, since what, the first Predator,

[1:01:54] sorry, Predator 2, where I was like,

[1:01:57] oh shit, why'd you do all these, use all these fucking toys?

[1:02:01] I rewatched Predator 2 recently and that movie is,

[1:02:04] it's one, bonkers and two, super racist.

[1:02:07] Like everything about it is super racist.

[1:02:09] Yeah, it's really great.

[1:02:10] If you're on the fence and you're like, I'm not sure.

[1:02:14] Yeah, like you're not gonna see,

[1:02:16] I don't think you're gonna see a better like

[1:02:18] action horror movie this year than Prey.

[1:02:23] And Amber Midthunder gives an incredible performance.

[1:02:26] Like she holds that whole movie down and the dog lives,

[1:02:30] sorry to spoil it, but the dog lives.

[1:02:32] It's an important thing.

[1:02:35] And yeah, there's a specific action sequence

[1:02:38] where the Predator is just going fucking nuts and it rules.

[1:02:43] Yeah, I really liked Prey 2.

[1:02:44] I thought it was, that was on my biggest surprise list

[1:02:47] where I didn't expect it to,

[1:02:50] I didn't expect to like it as much as I did.

[1:02:51] And then I did.

[1:02:53] Yeah, fair.

[1:02:55] Ellie, you have an honorable mention.

[1:02:57] My other honorable mention is the other big hit

[1:03:01] of the summer, RRR.

[1:03:03] That's right, RRR, the Indian action adventure movie

[1:03:07] that is, that there's so many fun scenes in it

[1:03:11] and it's so high energy and all that stuff.

[1:03:12] And I know that like, there are a lot of Indian film fans

[1:03:15] who are like, you think that's original to RRR?

[1:03:17] They do it in this movie and this movie too.

[1:03:19] And I'm like, that's true, but there's a lot of it in this.

[1:03:21] There's a lot of movie here

[1:03:23] and you still get to have a fight scene

[1:03:24] where a guy's on another guy's shoulders

[1:03:26] running around for the whole time.

[1:03:28] And in a scene where a guy unloads a cart full of animals

[1:03:32] to attack British soldiers in the same movie

[1:03:34] that there's a huge dance competition number

[1:03:36] that goes on for a very long time.

[1:03:39] I actually literally just started watching that movie today.

[1:03:42] I'm like an hour in because I wanted to do a double,

[1:03:45] I wanted to do a double feature that I call Tar RRR.

[1:03:51] They're two very different movies.

[1:03:53] Like the whole sequence, like you don't get the fucking,

[1:03:56] you don't get the opening credits until 40 minutes in.

[1:03:59] Like, it's like drive my car level.

[1:04:01] And those opening credits

[1:04:03] turn into a fucking friendship montage, which is amazing.

[1:04:07] It is one of these movies that it is,

[1:04:10] what it reminds me so much of

[1:04:12] is Hong Kong action movies from the 90s

[1:04:15] where you'd have these super like big, brutal action scenes.

[1:04:19] And then you'd have a scene where two guys

[1:04:21] are just crying over how much they love being friends.

[1:04:25] And it really makes me wish that

[1:04:27] the heroes in American action movies

[1:04:28] were able to show emotion much more.

[1:04:30] The only thing that bumps this down-

[1:04:31] And chest hair.

[1:04:32] These two guys have incredible chest hair.

[1:04:35] The thing that bumps it down to me,

[1:04:37] for honorable mentions, is that at the end of the movie,

[1:04:39] there's a long song number that feels like,

[1:04:43] that after the story is over,

[1:04:45] they have this kind of epilogue wrap up musical number

[1:04:47] about the strength of the Indian nation

[1:04:49] that starts to feel very like,

[1:04:53] what's the word for it?

[1:04:54] Not inclusive to all the people who live in India,

[1:04:56] basically, the current government in India.

[1:04:58] And by the end of it, it feels very much like,

[1:05:00] no, this is what we do.

[1:05:02] India, we have all,

[1:05:03] look at all these great heroes of Indian nationalism

[1:05:05] who are all Hindu, none of them are Muslim,

[1:05:07] and Gandhi is not here

[1:05:09] because he was not as on board with this as we were.

[1:05:11] So by the end of the movie, I was like, wait a minute,

[1:05:14] did I get tricked into watching propaganda

[1:05:16] because there's all these great

[1:05:17] action adventure scenes in it?

[1:05:20] I kind of felt like, wait a minute,

[1:05:22] did you sucker me in with a scene

[1:05:24] where a guy unleashes a tiger on somebody?

[1:05:26] Am I watching a Michael Bay movie?

[1:05:29] Yeah, so there's this,

[1:05:30] and I think part of that comes from,

[1:05:32] there can be a really exciting thing

[1:05:33] to watching a foreign movie

[1:05:35] that is meant for a foreign audience,

[1:05:37] where they are not like,

[1:05:38] well, this is the movie that's gonna be big in America,

[1:05:40] and so we're gonna do it American style.

[1:05:42] You're watching the movie that is meant to be watched

[1:05:44] by an Indian audience that wants that,

[1:05:47] but there's some times where you kind of like,

[1:05:50] I can feel myself stumbling into frames of reference

[1:05:53] that are not necessarily my own,

[1:05:54] and I'm like, am I enjoying something

[1:05:58] that I wouldn't feel totally okay about

[1:06:01] if I was fully aware of everything going on in it?

[1:06:03] So that's the only reason it's an honorable mention,

[1:06:06] because otherwise, it's a real thrill ride.

[1:06:08] Buckle up, Stu, because you've got a lot to look forward to.

[1:06:11] Yeah, I can't wait.

[1:06:12] Have you not seen the dance competition scene yet?

[1:06:14] No, I think I'm just about to start it.

[1:06:16] I think that's about an hour in,

[1:06:17] but I'm not sure.

[1:06:18] We'll find out.

[1:06:19] I mean, it's, there's, if it is, as you mentioned,

[1:06:22] it is after the opening credits,

[1:06:23] which as you mentioned, are 40 minutes into the movie.

[1:06:25] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:06:26] Like, drive my car.

[1:06:28] Take that tar.

[1:06:29] You don't need to throw all the credits up at the top.

[1:06:32] Great. Sorry, I'm not taking a nap.

[1:06:34] I just haven't seen R.R.R. yet,

[1:06:36] so I haven't had anything to say.

[1:06:37] I think you'd enjoy it.

[1:06:39] Dan, you're really into three-hour movies these days

[1:06:41] that are like a spectacle.

[1:06:42] Yeah, go see R.R.R.

[1:06:44] It's just a movie that bridges the gap between them.

[1:06:46] The reason I haven't seen it is I wanted to see it

[1:06:49] on the big screen with an audience,

[1:06:51] and they keep having like this and that pop up in New York,

[1:06:55] and I hope that I will be able to see it that way.

[1:06:59] Okay, so now that we've talked about our tops of the year,

[1:07:02] let's do a little bit of speed round.

[1:07:05] Let's talk about some of our other favorite things

[1:07:07] that might not have fallen into our top threes.

[1:07:11] Does anybody have any favorite performances?

[1:07:13] I know for me one of the standouts

[1:07:15] was LaShonna Lynch in The Woman King,

[1:07:19] this like super charismatic performance

[1:07:22] that like in a way anchor,

[1:07:25] like Viola Davis is incredible,

[1:07:28] and she's absolutely fucking yoked.

[1:07:30] I mean, she is so huge,

[1:07:32] but LaShonna Lynch also provides this like emotional center

[1:07:37] that anchors the whole movie, and she's fucking great,

[1:07:40] and I can't wait to see her in more stuff.

[1:07:43] What about you guys?

[1:07:45] Well, I have to admit,

[1:07:46] I just picked some categories from your list,

[1:07:49] so I don't have anything,

[1:07:50] like I can't round Robin like this,

[1:07:52] I just have the ones that I have.

[1:07:54] For performances, I'll say from the opening minutes of Tar,

[1:07:58] not to keep talking about Tar again,

[1:07:59] I was like, this is maybe my favorite

[1:08:01] Cate Blanchett performance I've ever seen,

[1:08:03] because I'm like-

[1:08:04] Galadriel.

[1:08:06] Even more than Galadriel, even more than Queen Elizabeth,

[1:08:10] even more than, isn't she the ex-girlfriend in,

[1:08:13] is it Hot Fuzz, where she has a mask on,

[1:08:16] and she's in one scene?

[1:08:17] She's in one scene, that's great.

[1:08:18] That she's, it's one of those performances

[1:08:20] where I'm like, this is not necessarily

[1:08:22] a flashy performance, this is not a showy performance,

[1:08:24] I feel like I'm watching a real person

[1:08:26] who lives and is not Cate Blanchett,

[1:08:28] that she is creating a person on screen,

[1:08:30] and that was really exciting to me.

[1:08:32] My honorable mention, though, I have to say,

[1:08:35] I'm gonna give it to Margot Robbie,

[1:08:38] because whatever movie she's in,

[1:08:40] even though I don't have it,

[1:08:41] I don't think I'm gonna be liking

[1:08:42] her big movies of 2022 that much.

[1:08:44] Amsterdam, of course, I hated.

[1:08:46] And Babylon, I'm not so sure about.

[1:08:48] She gives her all in every part.

[1:08:50] I feel like she is always acting at 100,000%,

[1:08:53] and every single part I've seen her in,

[1:08:55] she acts like this is the part,

[1:08:57] it's like she's auditioning to become a movie star

[1:09:00] every single time she's in a movie,

[1:09:01] and that really impresses me,

[1:09:04] that she still seems to be so passionate

[1:09:06] about her performances in every movie I see her in.

[1:09:09] Well, I mean, obviously she radiates charisma,

[1:09:11] but she's also just so physically precise.

[1:09:14] Like, whether or not you love Babylon,

[1:09:17] hate Babylon, whatever, there's that long scene

[1:09:21] where at the beginning, at the party,

[1:09:24] where she's drugged up, but she's feeling the music,

[1:09:28] and she does this amazing dance number

[1:09:31] that she is tossing her whole body into

[1:09:34] and is captivating through the whole thing.

[1:09:37] In the Dancey Awards this year

[1:09:38] for Best Margot Robbie Dancing,

[1:09:40] Babylon gets hands down over Amsterdam, that's for sure.

[1:09:42] Wow, okay.

[1:09:44] Oh, wait, was Suicide Squad this year?

[1:09:46] She did some good dancing in that.

[1:09:49] Oh, I didn't see the new Suicide Squad, yeah.

[1:09:51] But even whether she's playing Harley Quinn

[1:09:54] or Tonya Harding or whoever,

[1:09:56] I feel like she's always acting to the hilt,

[1:09:59] and I really admire that.

[1:10:00] that a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, Dane, do you have something for a different category? Uh, well,

[1:10:06] I, yeah, I'm sorry to have gummed up the work. Don't apologize to him. I just have paired up.

[1:10:14] I paired up biggest disappointment and biggest surprise. Okay. A surprise disappointment.

[1:10:20] So, uh, you know, don't go breaking Stu's heart. I, I put decision to leave on my biggest

[1:10:26] disappointment. Not because I didn't like it. Wow. I, I, on my letterbox. Wow. Wow.

[1:10:34] I'm grinding my garments. Wow. On my letterbox. Let's do Stu stop smearing ashes.

[1:10:40] The keeper of the stars. I gave it three and a half. I think it's, I, I think it's good.

[1:10:47] And I understand why other people love it. I just, you know, like I, I love Park Chan-wook

[1:10:54] and I don't want him to not be garish and, and wild. Like, you know, that's not what I

[1:11:02] want out of his movies. And I understand, you know, like, like they're all the critics were

[1:11:08] like talking about decision to leave and like, Oh, it's a, such a mature work from Park Chan-wook.

[1:11:13] It's so restrained. I'm like, that's not necessarily good in and of itself. He's so good

[1:11:18] at being like wild and doing nutty things in the movies and like making it like just being

[1:11:25] like a virtuoso. Like, just let, he did this one for Ellie, not for David. Yeah. This was, I mean,

[1:11:31] I love his other movies, but yeah, that's, he, he did it. He's like, he's like, Elliot,

[1:11:35] I'm at the same place in my life that you're at in your life where you're looking for emotional

[1:11:38] connection and not just empty stylistic vengeance. Great. You're going to love it.

[1:11:43] Right. But I do, I do like those movies. I can't wait to see it.

[1:11:45] You've always been older than me, Elliot, even though I am in fact much older than you.

[1:11:50] Uh, I'm going to say biggest surprise positive, uh, was, uh, it was a weird, was we, this will

[1:11:58] show you how few movies from this, that from, uh, 2022 that I ended up seeing was a like orphan

[1:12:03] first kill, which we watched for the flop, which I was not expecting to enjoy as much as I expected

[1:12:09] as kind of like a loony garish of a pulp movie as it was. And the other was, uh, is, is the menu

[1:12:17] a 2022 release or 2023 release? Uh, 2022. Yeah. I watched the menu recently and I was like going

[1:12:24] into it. I was like, all right, what am I going to feel about this? And I really enjoyed it a lot.

[1:12:28] And it was not, it was not an amazing movie and the satire targets are pretty broadside. You know,

[1:12:35] it's not the most sophisticated satire, but I really enjoyed Ray fines performance in it.

[1:12:40] And I think it works better as like a fun thriller than as a satire.

[1:12:44] Yeah, exactly. I think it worked. It worked as a fun thriller and it's got a bunch of good,

[1:12:48] uh, pretentious chef speeches. And Nicholas Holt is fucking great in that shit.

[1:12:53] He's so funny. He's such a funny performer like the, uh, so yeah. And, and, and on your

[1:13:01] Taylor, joy is going to this good in it like this. It's a, so that was one where I was like,

[1:13:05] uh, I, I kind of watched it on a lark and I was like, yeah, this is a really fun thriller.

[1:13:09] Yeah. I'm enjoying this one. It's also a really good performance from hung

[1:13:12] chow who also gives a good performance in the whale, a movie that I did not

[1:13:16] particularly care for, but does have good performances. Now, if we're talking biggest

[1:13:21] disappointments, then if I'm going to pair it up, like, like Dan did again, I mentioned,

[1:13:26] nope, was a bigger disappointment to me just because my expectations were so high for it.

[1:13:31] And it just didn't match that, but I'm pairing up biggest disappointment with another category

[1:13:35] that Stu had, which was seen that really stuck out to me. I don't know if you guys saw the movie

[1:13:40] Athena, but the opening scene of that is astonishing. And the rest of the movie just

[1:13:45] does not stick, does not stand up to it. The opening scene is this, uh, and this feels very

[1:13:50] like, uh, it feels very Babylon fan boyish also, cause it's a lot of, it's a movie that a lot of

[1:13:55] long takes where you're like, how did they do this in a single take? And it's a single take

[1:13:59] that involves an assault by a gang on a police station. And then them going through the police

[1:14:05] station, stealing stuff and blowing things up and then getting into a stolen van and then driving

[1:14:09] away. And it's all happening around the same time. And it's really astonishing. And the rest of the

[1:14:13] movie, you're like, Oh, this movie is going to be so amazing. And then it turns into kind of a,

[1:14:18] uh, kind of a flat, uh, dramatically flat movie that has a lot of like set piece things in it.

[1:14:25] But by the end of it, you're like, Oh, this is also a movie about like young people rising up

[1:14:29] against the government. Uh, and there's no real ideas in it. And the characters don't really make

[1:14:34] sense. And I don't really know why they're doing anything. All right. But that first opening scene

[1:14:38] is a stop is astounding. So it's kind of like worth watching the first 15 minutes of the movie

[1:14:42] and then being like, all right, I saw what this movie has and then turning it off. So that was

[1:14:46] a disappointment that didn't live up to that. For a disappointment. I wasn't a big fan of, uh,

[1:14:51] Thor love and thunder. Uh, I feel like it, it was such diminishing returns from, uh, the previous

[1:14:58] Thor movie. And I feel like maybe I've gotten tired of Taika Waititi's thing. Uh, or I mean,

[1:15:06] ultimately just the whole thing felt very lazy. Uh, and considering how much money is involved

[1:15:11] in these things, you would think, I don't know. Well, the thing is you, the clearly Taika Waititi

[1:15:16] is stretched at the moment. You're working on a lot of different things. And I feel like part

[1:15:20] of it. I'm sure the ish, as much as I didn't love Nope. Jordan Peele feels like he is constantly

[1:15:26] developing and constantly pushing himself. And it feels like at the moment, at least Taika Waititi

[1:15:30] is not doing that. And he's done a lot of work that I really loved, but yet it feels like he's

[1:15:34] kind of like, people are paying me a lot of money to do this thing. I think I'll keep doing it.

[1:15:40] Yeah. Um, to move back to positives, if I can. Yeah, of course. Uh,

[1:15:46] now we're just in the, in the dumping part of the, of the episode to Dan, here's what I don't

[1:15:51] like about you. You're too nice. Oh, that's not what you don't like about me. Um, uh, so, you

[1:16:00] know, this, uh, this will get more hate mail for old Danny boy after liking Babylon and saying

[1:16:08] I didn't like decision to leave as much as Stewart. Uh, my positive surprise will get

[1:16:15] everyone making fun of me. It's bullet train, uh, a movie that probably benefited from the fact that

[1:16:23] I went to it sort of on a lark because I have, you know, a season passed and, uh,

[1:16:30] it was what was playing. And at that point, everyone had come out with their,

[1:16:37] you know, bad reviews and I'm like, but maybe I'll like this. And it didn't, it didn't spark

[1:16:43] joy at the beginning. I thought it was going to be like what it looked like in the trailers,

[1:16:47] which was a sort of post Tarantino smoking aces, lucky numbers, Slevin, uh, bullshit

[1:16:55] clogged, clogged up America's colon circle.

[1:16:59] Like I'm ready to spend at least two days in this valley.

[1:17:06] Yeah. How many heads are in this duffel bag? Better.

[1:17:11] Uh, I'm dead and I'm in Denver. Are there things to do here?

[1:17:16] That's me asking the concierge at the mortuary.

[1:17:20] Anybody got a Zoe? I'd like to be killing it.

[1:17:31] Hey, uh, what kind of things do you have in the menu? Bad? Do you have any that are very bad?

[1:17:37] You're telling that even out of this boondock, you got saints.

[1:17:43] Anyway, I thought it would be that kind of bullshit and like on a certain level,

[1:17:48] I guess it is. But speaking of my maximalism, it just keeps piling on layers and layers and like

[1:17:56] narrative digressions and gimmicks to the point where like, if you're me, at least you stop being

[1:18:02] mad at it for being too gimmicky gimmicky and start getting amazed at how gimmicky it gets.

[1:18:07] And like, it becomes less that sort of glib action comedy and more like a Looney Tunes cartoon,

[1:18:14] which is when I started really kind of locking into it and enjoying myself.

[1:18:18] And I think if you look at it as like just this wacky live action crime cartoon,

[1:18:22] it's a lot of fun. Uh, so before we move, uh, we move on to wrap this whole thing up.

[1:18:29] Uh, we did talk a little bit about how, uh, we don't only watch new movies.

[1:18:35] I feel like we all watch a ton of movies. Was there anything from pre-2022 that you watched

[1:18:42] that you, uh, really connected? What was your like best first time watch this year?

[1:18:47] It sounds like Ellie, you watched a lot of 2021 movies this year.

[1:18:51] Well, I mean, I was like, I was like, what movies am I talking about? Well,

[1:18:54] of course the last duel, of course, the tragedy of Macbeth. And I'd be like 2021, 2021. Uh,

[1:19:00] but I, so this is, I think this will go down in my personal, uh, movie legend, which was

[1:19:05] this decision, this series of movies that I watched this year that really I would,

[1:19:10] that where I was at a very low point emotionally that really kind of helped pull me back.

[1:19:15] And they're not like, it's not like go, I went and watched a bunch of comedies and they like

[1:19:19] lifted my spirits or whatever. But there was a, there was a night when, uh, I was going to,

[1:19:23] I was going through a period that I have not fully brought myself out of where things that

[1:19:27] once brought me a lot of joy, no longer bring me joy that same way. And the, uh, and I was like,

[1:19:33] am I going to watch Thor love and thunder right now? Don't knowing I'm probably not going to

[1:19:38] enjoy it. Or am I going to watch this Spanish movie from the director of spirit of the beehive

[1:19:42] that I don't know anything about. And I watched that Spanish movie. It's called L sir. And it

[1:19:47] was just like, it's Dan would hate it. It is a quiet movie about the relationship between a man

[1:19:51] and his daughter. There is no spectacle to it. There's a part where he's divine. He's using a

[1:19:57] divining stone to find water in a field. And I'm sure Dan

[1:20:00] And I was like, okay, this is how his powers are shown.

[1:20:01] Okay, was there a geyser that's gonna come out

[1:20:04] and he's gonna ride it into space?

[1:20:05] But no, that doesn't happen.

[1:20:06] And I was on this run where I was like,

[1:20:09] okay, I'm gonna just watch movies

[1:20:10] that I think I'm gonna connect with emotionally.

[1:20:12] And three in a row, I watched Elser, Passing, and Afterlife.

[1:20:16] I think I ended up recommending all these in the podcast.

[1:20:18] And it was just like, oh, these are all movies

[1:20:21] that I really feel like I got a lot out of.

[1:20:23] And it reminded me of why movies are a thing

[1:20:28] that I've spent so much of my life thinking about

[1:20:31] and loving and wanting to be a part of and talking about.

[1:20:35] And it was like, oh, okay.

[1:20:36] So that was really, so those were ones,

[1:20:37] there were a bunch of other movies I saw this year

[1:20:38] that were not from this year, but all older movies.

[1:20:42] Mr. Klein, which is from the 70s.

[1:20:44] Imagine in Uniform, which is from the 30s.

[1:20:47] I Was a Simple Man, which is from just a couple years ago.

[1:20:50] And then like, there's this Japanese movie

[1:20:51] called Fighting Elegy.

[1:20:52] There's this, I really liked The Lost Daughter,

[1:20:56] which is also from 2021 that I finally saw.

[1:20:58] And like, this Agnes Varda movie called One Sings,

[1:21:01] The Other Doesn't.

[1:21:02] I think these are all movies that I might have recommended

[1:21:03] on the show, but like, that I just, I went,

[1:21:05] I realized like, oh, okay, there's a lot of movies

[1:21:07] that I saw this year.

[1:21:08] And it was always better for me when instead of seeing

[1:21:11] the movie that everyone was talking about

[1:21:13] because it's the biggest thing that happens to be out

[1:21:15] at the moment, I saw the thing that I had a sense

[1:21:19] might say something to me.

[1:21:20] And so that was really the best part of 2022

[1:21:23] in terms of movies.

[1:21:24] That's gotta feel good that you're like,

[1:21:25] instincts were right.

[1:21:27] Yes, well, that's the other thing is it's like,

[1:21:28] it feels good when you are,

[1:21:31] when you feel like you are out of step with the way

[1:21:33] a lot of mainstream entertainment is right now,

[1:21:35] which is weird for me since mainstream entertainment

[1:21:37] is essentially built off of Marvel Comics,

[1:21:39] which has been in my bones for, you know, 30 years now.

[1:21:43] That like, yeah, bones, look, it's a,

[1:21:45] Spider-Man's in there, bones and all.

[1:21:48] That, yeah, it's all those bones,

[1:21:50] that even crossbones, the Captain America villain.

[1:21:52] Absolutely, yep.

[1:21:54] Yeah, Red Skull, his head is a bone.

[1:21:56] He's a bone, yeah.

[1:21:57] It's a bones.

[1:21:58] Yeah, that's.

[1:21:59] Dry bones.

[1:22:00] That it was like, oh, wait.

[1:22:01] Yep, the dry bones from Mario will show up

[1:22:05] in Marvel Comics sometimes.

[1:22:08] I mean, eventually, at some point,

[1:22:09] Disney's gonna buy Nintendo and it's all.

[1:22:11] And Chris Pratt will look at the camera and be like,

[1:22:13] well, that happened.

[1:22:14] And we're like, okay, here's my money.

[1:22:17] And it was, it reminded me that like,

[1:22:20] the movies I see, I mean, I was never limited this way

[1:22:23] because as you guys know, I watch old stuff all the time,

[1:22:25] but the movies I see and that I care about

[1:22:27] and I talk about don't have to be just what's out

[1:22:30] at the moment and don't have to be the thing

[1:22:32] that the studio's man tell me

[1:22:34] that I'm supposed to care about.

[1:22:36] And that I had, I don't remember if I mentioned this

[1:22:38] in the podcast before, but I had a conversation

[1:22:40] with John Hodgman earlier this year

[1:22:42] where we were talking about Moon Knight

[1:22:44] and he was like, it's not, it's like,

[1:22:46] he's like, you know, it's fun, but it's not essential.

[1:22:49] And I was like, John, none of it's essential.

[1:22:51] We don't have to watch any of these.

[1:22:53] We can watch whatever we want.

[1:22:54] It was great to like take the reins of my own movie viewing

[1:22:57] and be like, I'm gonna watch what I want

[1:22:58] and to be rewarded so richly with movies

[1:23:01] that really touched me in a way

[1:23:03] that I hadn't been touched in a while.

[1:23:05] Guys, it's been so long since I was touched in that way.

[1:23:07] And I feel awakened as a viewer again.

[1:23:11] Dan, do you have one of these?

[1:23:13] You know what, I didn't originally,

[1:23:15] but Elliot was so sincere that I wanted to talk about,

[1:23:19] I watched a movie from 2019 called It Started as a Joke

[1:23:25] it was about the Eugene Merman comedy festival

[1:23:28] that ran for a while in Brooklyn.

[1:23:31] And, you know, it's a documentary and, you know,

[1:23:36] it touches on that and then spoiler alert,

[1:23:38] it also becomes about the illness

[1:23:41] of Eugene Merman's wife and her passing.

[1:23:44] And that's a very sort of moving part of it.

[1:23:47] But along the way, the reason it spoke to me,

[1:23:52] you know, I can't really, I think it's a good movie,

[1:23:56] but I can't look at it objectively

[1:23:59] because I kept seeing like people I would either

[1:24:04] see on stage when I was trying to do comedy in New York

[1:24:08] during the same period,

[1:24:09] or I would actually later come to know at the Daily Show

[1:24:16] or, you know, or work with or,

[1:24:19] and stages that I've been on in the past.

[1:24:24] And, you know, it's kind of an odd thing to think

[1:24:31] that I'm old enough and that like, you know,

[1:24:38] I was never a name in any sort of way.

[1:24:42] I just was trying to do comedy at the same time.

[1:24:45] But like, this is a scene still that I was a part of,

[1:24:48] like, it's weird to look back on that

[1:24:52] and see that in an actual movie about something.

[1:24:57] So that was a touching movie to see

[1:25:00] and one that I enjoyed a lot.

[1:25:02] Yeah, I mean, in a way, the movie that I think

[1:25:05] had the biggest impact on me is kind of similar

[1:25:08] in some ways to both where Dan was at, where Elliot's at.

[1:25:14] Back in February, right before my birthday,

[1:25:19] I had to fly out to Portland

[1:25:21] because my mother-in-law's husband passed away

[1:25:25] at the last minute.

[1:25:26] And I have a tendency to like download movies

[1:25:33] onto my laptop to watch on planes

[1:25:36] because I have this weird control thing.

[1:25:38] And I don't know, I like to make sure

[1:25:40] that I have as much possible entertainment

[1:25:43] so I'm not bored.

[1:25:45] And I also have a tendency to try and watch things

[1:25:48] that say I wouldn't have a chance to watch at home.

[1:25:52] So I watched Oslo, August 31st,

[1:25:55] which is a Joachim Trier movie from 2011.

[1:26:00] He had made my favorite movie of last year,

[1:26:04] Worst Person in the World.

[1:26:06] And Oslo, August 31st, tells the story

[1:26:11] of a single day in the life of a recovering drug addict

[1:26:14] who has one day to go leave his treatment center

[1:26:18] to kind of to like figure out where his place

[1:26:22] is going to be when he leaves that treatment center.

[1:26:25] And I don't know if it's like being

[1:26:28] like an elder millennial or something,

[1:26:31] and this feeling of like not knowing exactly

[1:26:33] where you fit in the world,

[1:26:36] and not knowing if you're where you're supposed to be,

[1:26:41] if you're at where you're supposed to be at for your age,

[1:26:44] and also like coming out of the pandemic

[1:26:47] and not knowing like, I mean,

[1:26:49] we're still in a pandemic obviously,

[1:26:50] but coming out of the pandemic

[1:26:52] and just like not knowing how the world works anymore.

[1:26:59] It was like, it was a super moving

[1:27:02] and like crushing in some ways,

[1:27:04] like it's a very sad movie in some ways,

[1:27:06] but it also like, I don't know.

[1:27:08] It's that, you know, like even when you see something

[1:27:10] that's super sad, but like you connect with it,

[1:27:13] it makes you feel good.

[1:27:15] Yeah, well, I feel like that's what I was trying to get at.

[1:27:18] And you said it even better,

[1:27:19] which is like when I was feeling down

[1:27:22] and it was like, I didn't want happy things

[1:27:24] to jolly me out of it.

[1:27:25] I wanted something that, the thing that reaches out to you

[1:27:28] and is like, I understand you, you understand me,

[1:27:32] like you're not alone.

[1:27:33] And like that's, and sometimes that means watching a movie

[1:27:35] about someone whose life is falling apart or is very sad.

[1:27:38] And you're like, oh, they get it.

[1:27:40] The same way, I've talked about this before,

[1:27:42] the first time I ever had a kidney stone

[1:27:43] and it was super painful.

[1:27:44] And I watched From Beyond and Jeffrey Combs is going mad

[1:27:48] and he bites someone's eyeball out.

[1:27:49] And I was like, this movie gets how I'm feeling right now.

[1:27:53] Finally a movie that understands me.

[1:27:57] Well, that's great.

[1:27:59] I feel like all things considered,

[1:28:01] it was still a good year for movies

[1:28:04] and it was a good year for us doing the podcast.

[1:28:07] I had a great time.

[1:28:08] I'm looking forward to another year of,

[1:28:11] let's say good movies and potentially some bad ones.

[1:28:18] Law of averages.

[1:28:20] Leading off that, here's my new year's resolution.

[1:28:22] I'm gonna take a page from the book of Dan McCoy,

[1:28:25] chapter one, butts.

[1:28:27] Wait, let me move a little forward.

[1:28:28] Okay, chapter two, more butts.

[1:28:29] Chapter three, wife butts.

[1:28:31] Chapter four, see chapter one.

[1:28:33] Okay, chapter five.

[1:28:34] Okay, here we go.

[1:28:35] That where I feel like Dan has said to me,

[1:28:38] we'll talk about a movie and he'll be like,

[1:28:40] for this podcast, he's like,

[1:28:40] I think you're looking for things to not like in it

[1:28:43] because you think you're supposed to for the podcast.

[1:28:45] Like I'm gonna go in and I'm always wanna enjoy it.

[1:28:49] And Dan has a habit of comparing the movies

[1:28:51] to other movies we've seen

[1:28:53] as opposed to comparing them

[1:28:54] to all the possible movies in the universe,

[1:28:56] which I tend to do.

[1:28:57] And so my resolution is,

[1:28:59] I'm gonna try to go into the movies

[1:29:01] that we see for this podcast,

[1:29:03] saying I want this movie to be good

[1:29:06] and I wanna enjoy this movie.

[1:29:07] And I'm gonna go in expecting it to be good

[1:29:09] and hoping that it's good

[1:29:10] and hoping that I get surprised.

[1:29:11] And I'm gonna go into every movie doing that.

[1:29:13] And I'm gonna bring that same energy

[1:29:15] to our next movie, Black Adam.

[1:29:17] Oh boy.

[1:29:18] Wait, the movie that was so bad

[1:29:21] it made The Rock unfollow

[1:29:22] the official Black Adam Instagram account?

[1:29:25] That same one.

[1:29:26] Oh, but I'm gonna go into it looking for the positive.

[1:29:29] I think I wanna take a,

[1:29:30] Dan and I, we don't love all the same movies,

[1:29:32] but I think I really admire Dan

[1:29:34] that when you go into a movie, you're like,

[1:29:36] what am I gonna like about this?

[1:29:37] What am I gonna see in this that I'm gonna enjoy?

[1:29:39] And what am I gonna see in this

[1:29:40] that I haven't seen before?

[1:29:42] And that's big and weird and surprises me.

[1:29:45] So I'm gonna try to go into movies with that mindset.

[1:29:47] And thank you for granting it to me.

[1:29:49] I've just stolen it from you.

[1:29:50] You don't have it anymore.

[1:29:51] Oh no.

[1:29:52] Oh no, now I have to be more critical.

[1:29:54] Huh?

[1:29:54] That's all I have.

[1:29:57] Okay, well.

[1:29:58] It'll be a real freaky Friday.

[1:30:00] It'll be a real, a real slightly different Friday.

[1:30:04] Castle Freaky Friday.

[1:30:06] So this has been a presentation of the Flop House podcast.

[1:30:10] Oh no, I've got to take my daughter's test

[1:30:11] and my daughter's ripping my ding dong off.

[1:30:13] That's a Castle Freaky Friday.

[1:30:14] Oh no.

[1:30:15] Ellie, we won't let you in the episodes, Stewart.

[1:30:19] It's impossible.

[1:30:20] No.

[1:30:22] So this has been, yeah,

[1:30:24] this has been a presentation of the Flop House podcast.

[1:30:27] Thank you so much for tuning in.

[1:30:29] Thanks for tuning in to the future.

[1:30:30] Thanks for supporting our show.

[1:30:32] There's other great shows like ours

[1:30:34] on the Maximum Fun Network.

[1:30:36] Thanks again to our producer, Alec Smith,

[1:30:39] who goes by HowlDotty, and he makes this sound great.

[1:30:43] For the Flop House, I've been Stewart Wellington.

[1:30:46] I've been Dan McCoy.

[1:30:47] And I'm the new hyper-positive Elliot Kalin.

[1:30:50] Go movies, Flop House forever.

[1:30:53] Bye.

[1:30:59] Maximumfun.org, comedy and culture.

[1:31:02] Artist owned, audience supported.

FH Mini 71 - '22 in Review

Transcript

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