Ep.#398 - Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania

Dan McCoy

[0:00] On this episode, we discuss Ant-Man and the Wasp, Quantumania!

Stuart Wellington

[0:07] Are we going to be members of the Kang Gang, or are we going to be Fant-Men?

[0:15] Sorry, I spit out nuts while I was doing that hilarious joke.

[0:30] Hey everyone, welcome to the Flophouse. I'm Dan McCoy.

Elliott Kalan

[0:47] I'm Stuart Wellington.

[0:50] And I'm Elliot Kalin. Hey guys, how did we get so laid back?

[0:55] I don't know, I'm feeling groovy.

Dan McCoy

[0:58] As I watched Ant-Man and the Wasp, Quaalude Mania.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03] That explains it, dude.

[1:04] Really takes the edge off of an endless, seemingly never-ending series of decreasingly quality films.

[1:12] Hey, harsh in my mellow.

[1:16] Okay.

Dan McCoy

[1:18] I don't know who those characters were, but this is a podcast where we watch a bad movie and then we talk about it.

[1:23] Or a movie, look, a movie that maybe didn't get such great reviews on the one hand, or maybe got rejected by people.

[1:29] Maybe it's Dan's favorite Marvel movie.

[1:31] Who knows?

[1:32] Maybe this is your favorite one. Who knows?

[1:33] I like Marvel movies, and this is the first one we're doing, so let's see what happens.

[1:38] True.

Stuart Wellington

[1:39] You say, make mine Marvel, or make mine MODOK, whichever matters.

Dan McCoy

[1:44] Mmm, I say, mmm.

Elliott Kalan

[1:47] Mmm, yeah.

[1:48] That mmm stands for make mine MODOK Marvel.

Dan McCoy

[1:52] Yeah, and we watched Ant-Man and the Wasp, Quantum Mania, the third Ant-Man film in the Ant-Man series.

[2:01] And wait, let's-

[2:02] Not a third appearance overall.

Elliott Kalan

[2:03] But let's take a moment, you know what, as we'll get through this episode, you'll see I have mixed feelings about this film.

[2:09] But let's say how nice it is to live in a world where you can say the third Ant-Man film in the Ant-Man series.

[2:15] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[2:15] I still kind of wish I'd seen the Edgar Wright version of that Ant-Man movie.

[2:22] 100,000%.

[2:23] 100,000 million percent.

[2:25] I'm glad that, you know, after Bring It On and Down With Love, he's seeing the success.

[2:30] Anyway.

[2:32] Yeah.

[2:33] All he had to do was-

Elliott Kalan

[2:34] And Peyton Reed directed all three of them, right?

[2:36] Yes.

[2:37] Because in this world, to get success currently as the entertainment industry is operated,

[2:42] all you have to do is attach yourself, Remora-like, to an enormous bloated corporate IP so that you can gobble up the crumbs that fall out of that shark's mouth as it swims through the ocean.

Stuart Wellington

[2:54] Worked for Martin Scorsese.

Elliott Kalan

[2:58] Talking about-

[3:00] Yeah, yeah.

[3:00] When he directed that Harry Potter movie.

[3:03] Yeah, yeah, sure.

Stuart Wellington

[3:04] It was awesome.

Elliott Kalan

[3:07] When Martin Scorsese took on the Hasbro library of titles and did that mask movie for the Hasbro cinematic universe.

Stuart Wellington

[3:17] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[3:17] His Wacky Races for Hanna-Barbera.

Elliott Kalan

[3:20] I would love-

[3:21] Honestly, I would love to see Martin Scorsese direct a Wacky Races movie.

[3:25] Wacky Races or Wacky Racers?

Stuart Wellington

[3:27] I don't know.

[3:28] Was it the race that was wacky or the racers that were wacky in an otherwise sensible race?

Dan McCoy

[3:34] Well, I mean, I guess the parameters of the race were basically pretty sensible, right?

[3:40] It was just, you know, your typical whoever gets there first.

Stuart Wellington

[3:43] Yeah, you're puttering around through space.

[3:45] Mm-hmm.

[3:46] Yeah, I mean, aren't we all kind of puttering through space, though?

[3:49] I know I am.

Elliott Kalan

[3:50] These days, forget about it.

[3:52] Yeah, the older I get.

[3:54] So, we're talking about Ant-Man movies today, right?

[3:57] Or one in particular.

[3:59] Guys-

Stuart Wellington

[3:59] Yeah, and this is, as we said, this is the first time we've done an actual MCU Marvel movie.

[4:04] We've done, I feel like every Spider-Man villain's been off.

[4:08] Mm-hmm.

[4:09] We've done DC movies.

[4:09] And a bunch of DC.

Elliott Kalan

[4:10] Yeah, and we did the Sony Super Marvel characters, but not the Marvel Super Marvel characters.

[4:16] Not the ones in the MCU proper.

[4:18] Yeah.

[4:18] Guys, why do you think this is that we've taken so long to get to an MCU movie?

Dan McCoy

[4:22] I mean, because they've all basically been pretty good.

[4:24] And I mean, like, I, you know, and pretty good, while not great, is enough to avoid our ire most of the time.

Elliott Kalan

[4:32] I feel like there's been a relatively high level of quality throughout the Marvel series.

[4:37] Now, that high level of quality is sometimes hurt by the repetitiveness of the films.

[4:42] Yes.

[4:43] But it's, they're mostly enjoyable most of the time, right, Stu?

Stuart Wellington

[4:46] I think Scott Tobias on a podcast described the Marvel movies as having a kind of low ceiling, but a kind of high basement.

[4:55] Like, the best are not, you know, the best movie of the year or anything, but the worst are rarely that bad.

[5:01] Like, they're pretty similar.

[5:04] Yeah.

[5:04] Like, they have a pretty, like, they all kind of hit in the same zone.

Elliott Kalan

[5:08] It's rare that I'll watch a Marvel movie and I'll feel the kind of despair that I feel watching some of the DC movies.

[5:14] Where I start being like, I just want to, I just want to see colorful characters having adventures.

[5:20] Why is the Flash saving someone from a bus hitting them, being treated as if there's no beauty in the world and everything is terrible?

Dan McCoy

[5:28] Why did Jimmy Olsen just get killed?

Elliott Kalan

[5:32] Why did the heroes beat the villain senseless and then chop his unconscious head off of his body as they threw him through a portal at his boss as if to say, you'll get this if you come through?

[5:43] That's not a hero.

Stuart Wellington

[5:44] That did happen, though.

[5:46] Yeah.

[5:47] We're not just a thing.

[5:48] It did happen.

[5:48] Wow, that's pretty wild that that really happened, you know?

Elliott Kalan

[5:51] What's amazing in that Just League movie is they bring Superman to life.

[5:54] It's silly.

[5:55] But then he immediately attacks the other heroes and that could just be a thing that happens in those movies.

[6:02] You gotta see how tough he is, you know?

[6:02] Yeah, you gotta see how powerful he is.

[6:04] But I feel like in the Marvel movies, everyone has a disagreement and fights.

[6:07] But in the DC movies, the heroes are often trying to murder each other in a way that is a little too real, a little too bleak.

[6:14] Guys, are you guys ready to go to the fucking quantum realm?

[6:17] Yeah.

[6:17] Let's do that show.

[6:18] I never thought I was and then I did.

[6:20] Now, I'm going to make a confession.

[6:23] This is the first time I've sat through an entire full Ant-Man movie.

[6:27] I watched the first half of the first Ant-Man movie and then around the time he started being like, I've got powers?

[6:32] What?

[6:33] I lost interest.

[6:34] I've seen enough movies where people are – I've seen all the movies that I need to where someone does something amazing and then looks at their hands like, did I do that?

[6:41] And so, unless it's Urkel and he has powers and he's going, did I do that?

[6:45] I mean, he does have powers.

[6:46] He suddenly has got powers.

[6:48] The power to charm America.

[6:49] He goes, got any cheese?

[6:50] And then everyone – half the people in the universe turn into cheese and they've got to stop him.

[6:54] But I – and I never saw the second one, Ant-Man and the Wasp, a movie that I'm not sure is real.

[6:59] Did you guys see it?

[7:00] Is that a real movie?

[7:00] I – yeah, I saw –

[7:02] You've got Walton Goggins in it.

Dan McCoy

[7:03] Yeah, I mean, I would make a mild argument for the second one being slightly better because I think it's breezier.

[7:13] Like, it doesn't spend as much time on, like, setting a bunch of stuff up and leans into, like, the idea of, like, this is just, like, the zany corner of the universe.

[7:24] Like, where we do a straight comedy.

Stuart Wellington

[7:26] And, yeah, there's – one thing about those two movies is that they're kind of grounded in the real world of San Francisco.

[7:34] Mm-hmm.

[7:35] And that Scott Lang has problems that are fairly relatable, like, in a sense.

[7:43] Like, they're, like – I don't want to say they're, like, low stakes or anything, but they're almost street-level problems.

[7:49] It's where he's an ex-con.

[7:51] He can't get caught fooling around with high-tech stuff, so he can't break his parole because if he does that, he will lose custody or lose visitation rights with his daughter, Cassie.

[8:02] Even though his ex-wife, Judy Greer, is lovely and amazing and she should be in more TV shows, why did they cancel her show?

[8:09] Yeah, why did they?

[8:09] And Bobby Cannavale –

[8:11] She was not the reason that they canceled her show.

[8:13] Bobby Cannavale plays her new husband.

[8:17] And you know what?

[8:18] He's actually not that bad of a guy either, so.

Dan McCoy

[8:20] Yeah, yeah.

[8:21] I mean, like – and, yeah, so Stuart says they're – you know, I mean, obviously in a real world, there would be tremendous, bizarre threats.

[8:29] But in the MCU, these are small, local threats that he's fighting and, you know –

Stuart Wellington

[8:35] They're, like, shrinking and getting big and, like, they're in, like –

[8:37] Yeah.

[8:38] Getting a fight in the kitchen.

Elliott Kalan

[8:39] So, whereas Captain America is, like, a man out of time and he was frozen and he doesn't understand the modern world.

[8:46] Iron Man just spent $44 billion to try to prove that he's funny and it's crashing and burning spectacularly.

[8:54] With Ant-Man, it's more like, hey, you know, I just got to – I got to get through the day, you know.

[8:58] And maybe every now and then I'll have to fight a bad guy for something.

Dan McCoy

[9:02] Yeah.

[9:03] And so, obviously, the thing to do is to put him in a cosmic world where none of that grounded stuff is there.

Stuart Wellington

[9:10] Put him in a two-hour episode of Rick and Morty.

Elliott Kalan

[9:12] And it's written by a Rick and Morty writer.

[9:15] And it feels like –

[9:15] Oh, that's weird.

[9:16] It feels like they kept saying to him, more Rick and Morty.

[9:18] Rick and Morty it up.

[9:19] Because when they have an alien going, how many holes do you have?

[9:23] And it's like, I don't – okay.

[9:26] Like, just – this lets – at a certain point, it really didn't feel like an Ant-Man movie anymore.

[9:31] Or even a Marvel movie anymore.

[9:32] It started feeling like what I'll say throughout.

[9:36] Watered down Star Wars.

[9:37] What?

[9:37] Is that possible?

[9:38] Watered down?

[9:39] But Star Wars is so strong.

[9:40] How can you water it down?

[9:41] Well, we'll find out.

Dan McCoy

[9:42] And Star Wars has been doing it to itself for years.

Elliott Kalan

[9:45] Whoa!

[9:46] That's what that Radiohead song was about.

[9:48] You do it to yourself.

[9:50] Yeah.

[9:50] Star Wars.

[9:52] That's what that is.

Stuart Wellington

[9:53] I don't know that song.

[9:54] You'll – can you send me a link?

[9:57] Or can you just sing the whole song into a tape recorder later and send that to you?

Elliott Kalan

[10:01] Can't get the stink out of this added special effect.

[10:05] Meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow.

[10:07] Oh, wow.

[10:08] So it's a whole song about Star Wars.

[10:09] Most of the Radiohead songs are about Star Wars.

[10:11] I didn't know that.

[10:12] Yeah, yeah.

[10:13] So kid A, it's Anakin Skywalker.

[10:16] That actually makes a lot of sense.

[10:17] Yeah, makes a lot of sense.

Stuart Wellington

[10:18] Okay, computer.

[10:19] That's what Han Solo tells his computer.

Elliott Kalan

[10:21] When his computer says something that's okay.

[10:24] Yeah.

[10:25] So Ant-Man and the Wasp, Quantumania.

[10:28] So the first Ant-Man, Paul Rudd gets Ant-Man powers.

[10:30] Second Ant-Man, I guess they introduce the quantum realm where if you shrink too much,

[10:34] you end up in a microverse.

Stuart Wellington

[10:36] They actually introduce it in the first one, but it's mainly –

Dan McCoy

[10:40] Oh, it's very brief.

[10:40] Yeah.

[10:41] Okay.

[10:41] It's mainly a consequence.

[10:43] This is where my wife, Michelle Pfeiffer, went.

Elliott Kalan

[10:47] Dan, you're married to Michelle Pfeiffer?

Dan McCoy

[10:49] Yeah.

[10:50] Yeah.

[10:50] Don't tell Audrey.

[10:51] And my enemy –

[10:52] I actually do tell – she would be so excited.

[10:54] She'd be very impressed.

[10:55] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[10:56] Oh, shit.

[10:56] Yeah.

[10:57] Also, his enemy, Corey Stahl.

[10:59] Stole?

[11:00] Stahl?

[11:00] Goes there?

[11:01] You might know him as the fellow who wears a very convincing hairpiece in The Strain.

Dan McCoy

[11:06] Yeah.

[11:07] Oh, okay.

[11:07] Yeah.

[11:07] I guess that is what I know of him.

[11:08] Well, he was the villain in the first one, and now he shows up as another character that we all know and love that has an acronym as a name.

Elliott Kalan

[11:18] Wasn't he a recurring character on Girls also?

[11:21] Corey Stahl?

[11:22] Oh, maybe.

[11:23] I think that's where I know him from.

[11:24] Yeah, I can't remember.

Elliott Kalan

[11:24] Did he play the – he's like an Anderson Cooper type?

[11:28] I think so.

Dan McCoy

[11:28] It has been so long since I've seen an episode of Girls.

Elliott Kalan

[11:32] Maybe I'm getting it wrong.

[11:33] Maybe I'm thinking of somebody else.

[11:35] And there's no way of finding out.

[11:36] It's impossible.

[11:37] I think I'm thinking of somebody else.

[11:38] Oh, no.

[11:39] There he is.

[11:39] Yeah, Dil Harcourt.

[11:40] Girls.

[11:41] Okay, that's what I know him from.

[11:43] So is there a plot to this movie?

[11:45] Well, there kind of isn't.

[11:47] So let's get into it.

[11:48] This is one of those movies that has the least – the way this plot is triggered is right out of a 60s Disney movie.

[11:54] Kurt Russell live-action film.

[11:55] So we start – we're in a goopy, glowy fantasy world.

[11:59] Get used to it.

[11:59] We're going to be in a world of goopy, purple caves.

[12:03] Like we're in Prince's subconscious for a lot of this movie.

[12:07] It's just purple everywhere.

[12:08] Everything's kind of flowy and sensuous, but not just physically.

[12:10] And everything's kind of paisley, so that makes sense.

[12:13] Yeah, exactly, yeah.

[12:14] And Michelle Pfeiffer, she is like a – she's like a living there as a nomad or a farmer or something.

[12:21] She sees a flare, and she gets a weapon.

[12:23] And she runs out, and the weapon is her wasp sting bracelet.

[12:26] And there's a bunch of creatures, and she shoots wasp sting lasers at them.

[12:29] And then she gets saved from the last creature by Jonathan Majors, who's like, what is this place?

[12:36] Bum, bum, bum, end of cold open.

[12:37] Now, guys, do you think Marvel is a little not feeling great about pinning the next phase of their movies on someone who is not necessarily showing his best face to the world at the moment?

Dan McCoy

[12:48] A bunch of credible accusations against – yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[12:52] Yeah, I think they're shuffling.

[12:55] They're shuffling things around.

Elliott Kalan

[12:56] It's like the DC Universe was dealing with their whole Flash debacle, and Marvel's like, well, we don't have to worry about that.

[13:02] And Jonathan Majors was like, hold my beer.

Stuart Wellington

[13:04] So it's also interesting because there's another cast member who had some public issues as well, Evangeline Lilly, before making this.

[13:13] There were some issues with her being an anti-vaxxer.

Elliott Kalan

[13:17] Yeah, and also some issues with Bill Murray and on-set behavior, and he's in this movie.

Stuart Wellington

[13:22] Yeah.

[13:22] But with Evangeline Lilly, it feels like they actually took action because the Wasp has like four lines in the whole movie.

Elliott Kalan

[13:29] It's crazy that it's called Ant-Man and the Wasp, and there's very little Wasp in this movie.

[13:33] There's not that much Ant-Man at a certain point, to be honest.

Dan McCoy

[13:35] There's a fair amount of original Wasp.

[13:37] Maybe that's the Wasp they've switched over to.

[13:39] Maybe.

[13:39] It's possible.

Elliott Kalan

[13:39] They should have called the movie Ant-Man and Wasp and Friends, Quantumania.

Dan McCoy

[13:44] The Ant family.

[13:45] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[13:46] I mean, Ant family, Quantumania is a great title for this and a better title.

Stuart Wellington

[13:51] Yeah.

[13:51] But the movie is very much a, like right from the jump, the movie is selling us on the Kang character.

[13:59] Yes.

[13:59] Like including both post-credit scenes are Kang related.

Dan McCoy

[14:03] Well, and not to jump up too far ahead, but, you know, one of the post-credit scenes, you see a bunch of different versions of Kang, and they're all Jonathan Majors.

[14:13] But whatever.

[14:15] Like if the idea of Kang is there's a lot of different versions of him.

[14:19] Then you can have someone else playing.

[14:20] I feel like you can recast it.

[14:21] Like whatever.

Elliott Kalan

[14:22] What I thought was weirder was, we'll get to that part, but when all the versions of Kang show up, they're just screaming.

Stuart Wellington

[14:27] Like they're just angry.

[14:28] They're just like.

[14:28] They're so happy to be.

[14:29] They're like.

[14:30] They're like.

[14:30] Ah.

[14:31] Ah.

[14:31] Yes.

[14:32] Different universes have different expressions of excitement.

Elliott Kalan

[14:35] Throughout the movie, Kang has been presented as this very calm, collected, subtle, elegant character.

[14:41] And in the end, when you see a whole collection of them, they're just yelling their heads off like children.

[14:46] Well, that's why they exiled him.

Dan McCoy

[14:47] He was a boring.

[14:48] I guess so, yeah.

[14:49] They're like, you're no fun.

[14:51] You don't yell.

[14:51] Kang, you're bringing the Kang council down.

[14:53] Could you?

Elliott Kalan

[14:55] You're a real quantum mood killer.

[14:59] So we're in San Francisco.

Dan McCoy

[15:00] We want a little more quantum mania in here, and you're quantum subdued.

Elliott Kalan

[15:04] So Stuart mentioned it takes place in San Francisco.

[15:09] Paul Rudd is a famous Avenger now.

[15:10] Everybody loves him.

[15:12] He's gone from zero to hero.

[15:14] And he is Hope Van Dyne, the Wasp of Angelina Lillie, runs the Pym Company very charitably.

[15:20] But Paul's teenage daughter, Cassie, she's always standing up for her beliefs in ways that get her thrown in jail or get in trouble with the authorities.

[15:27] She's a real civil disobedient person.

[15:29] And in this case, they have to bail her out of jail because she used Pym particles to shrink a cop car down, which is a funny moment when she just slams on the ground and it goes boop or something like that.

[15:40] There's a lot of father-daughter tension.

[15:42] And really it's because she's disappointed that her dad, Scott, Scott Lang, the Ant-Man, that he's resting on his laurels.

[15:52] He saved the universe, sure.

[15:53] But there's so much more he could be doing with his powers, and he's not helping people.

Dan McCoy

[15:56] I got to admit, this bothered me a fair amount because, like, great.

[16:01] Cassie, you know, she's out there actively doing stuff.

[16:03] Great.

[16:03] Great for Cassie.

[16:04] But, like, the fact that she's giving Ant-Man such a hard time about the fact that he's, like, enjoying himself for a little while.

[16:13] Like, he did save the universe.

[16:15] He did.

[16:15] He was, like, kind of the most important character in the MCU, like, in Endgame, like, coming up with the whole idea that helps everything.

[16:23] Just, like, just let him be for a while.

[16:25] Like, let the man relax.

Elliott Kalan

[16:26] I think there's a certain thing – I've thought about this a while, for a lot, where it's, like, in most people's life, if you do one thing that's really heroic, that's amazing.

[16:37] And you'll be celebrated for that forever.

[16:38] But with superheroes, they got to keep doing it over and over again.

[16:42] And I think about how, like, if Captain America saves the world once, people are like, oh, my goodness, you're amazing.

[16:47] And then the world's in trouble again.

[16:48] They're like, uh, Cap, are you going to take care of this?

[16:51] Yeah, didn't we have a Captain America or something at one point?

[16:54] Isn't this your job?

[16:56] Like, chop, chop, can you save the world again?

[16:58] Whereas in the real world, people are not called on to do that more than once, to do something heroic and amazing.

[17:04] But also, you know what?

[17:05] Kids are just looking for reasons to be disappointed in their parents.

[17:08] And what's great about this, Dan, is it creates the sort of character conflict that we can then solve with the story circle form of storytelling structure.

[17:18] Rick and Morty's famous story circle structure.

Dan McCoy

[17:21] I want to make it clear, too.

[17:22] Like, I don't think that this, I don't think that this is a, there's too many negatives in this.

[17:29] I think that this is a direction that could have worked.

[17:32] But the movie does not really put in enough legwork to, like, just seeing, like, Paul Rudd happily, like, going around town, like, reading from his biography and doing stuff.

[17:46] I'm not like, this asshole doesn't care anymore.

[17:50] Like, if you want to have this character arc, that's fine.

Stuart Wellington

[17:52] He should walk by an alleyway while some thugs are beating up a guy and he's like, hmm, too busy.

[17:57] Which Spider-Man did once in the movies.

[18:00] Possibly the funniest thing that's ever been in a superhero movie.

[18:03] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[18:03] Is when he just walks by those guys beating that person up.

[18:06] Yeah.

[18:06] And the guy's like, help!

[18:08] I mean, to be honest, the same thing happens in Guardians of the Galaxy 3, right?

[18:12] Yeah.

[18:12] Where when they're on counter-Earth, they just walk by people hurting each other and they're like, oof, animal people.

[18:18] Not getting involved.

[18:19] They have bigger fishes to fry at that point.

[18:21] Dan, Dan.

[18:22] Spider-Man's funnier.

[18:23] Yeah, Spider-Man is funnier.

[18:25] So, it feels like more of a deliberate choice, too, to not get involved.

[18:30] So, it feels like a slim, it feels like a TV problem for characters to have.

[18:36] Unless you're saying the stakes are high.

[18:38] Unless he's doing something that's really disappointing her or she is really involved in a specific thing.

[18:45] I mean, the other way they could have gone is like, dad, I'm still mad that you missed my recital while you were saving the world, which is also a fake conference.

[18:52] Yeah, but that would have made me even more annoyed.

Dan McCoy

[18:54] Like, she makes one, like, catty remark about having to, like, take care of herself and then she apologizes for almost immediately.

[19:01] Because it's like, yeah, like, he didn't want to be gone for five years.

Stuart Wellington

[19:05] And she's a character, Cassie's a character who in the first two movies was a child and her main role was to serve as a thing that he is trying to keep in his life.

[19:15] Yeah, yeah.

[19:15] It's a real con air situation.

[19:17] But he tries to interact with her a little bit, but this is kind of like the first time we see this character, like, fully fleshed out,

[19:24] and she ended up to be the next Ant-Man in the MCU.

Elliott Kalan

[19:27] Or the character of Stature, which was her codename in the comics.

[19:30] Oh, okay.

[19:31] So, when she was a member of the Young Avengers, the, or it was the-

[19:35] Because she gets really tall?

[19:36] The Avengers initiative.

[19:36] Like, what does Stature mean?

[19:38] Yeah, because she gets really tall.

[19:38] Yeah, Avengers initiative, I think is what it was, if I'm remembering correctly.

[19:41] Now, here's the thing.

[19:43] These characters, no one is really fully fleshed out very much in this movie.

[19:47] Like, they don't spend a lot of time giving these characters real personality or at least, like, a distinctive thing about them.

[19:53] I mean, it feels, I don't know if you felt this way, but it felt like everyone in the movie kind of had the same, was dipping into the same kind of personality trough.

[20:00] You know, except for Kang, maybe?

Dan McCoy

[20:02] Yeah.

[20:02] Michael Douglas has a different personality.

[20:04] The personality of a man who does not seem to want to be there.

[20:08] But still has enough movie star charisma that, you know, he's enjoyable to watch.

Elliott Kalan

[20:13] But all of them take everything they're doing pretty lightly throughout it.

[20:17] They're all cracking wise.

[20:18] Like, they all tell the same kinds of jokes.

[20:20] The aliens they meet in the Quantumverse all tell the same kinds of jokes and talk the same way.

[20:25] And Michael Douglas, I did read a thing where he's like, he'd be interested in Hank Ben coming back in Ant-Man 4 if he dies in that movie.

[20:30] Like, he's fully at the point where he's like, kill my character.

[20:33] Like, I don't want to do any more of this.

[20:34] But there's no, it feels like the characters are not really playing off of each other much.

[20:39] And the way that they create conflict is that Cassie is disappointed in her dad.

[20:44] And Michelle Pfeiffer is continually not telling her family things that would help them in the moment.

[20:50] And it becomes so excruciatingly infuriating that they're like, well, we're in the Quantum Zone and we're being attacked by monsters.

[20:57] There's no time to tell, Elliot.

[20:58] There's no time to tell you how I know these monsters.

Dan McCoy

[21:00] I need to protect you somehow, even though we're already here.

[21:03] And knowing the stuff would probably be more good anyway.

Elliott Kalan

[21:07] Also, even if she was, if she told them.

[21:08] Better is the other word for that.

[21:10] If she told them as they eventually find out, you know what?

[21:12] There's a villain in the Quantum Zone and we have to keep him trapped there.

[21:15] Then maybe Cassie would not build a portal to the Quantum Zone.

[21:18] Maybe that's something that she would know not to do.

[21:20] But anyway, I guess what I'm saying is characters, they don't always have to do the rational or the right thing.

[21:25] Often characters are best when they don't do the rational or the right thing.

[21:27] But this is pretty irrational.

[21:29] It makes me doubt the intelligence of this character.

[21:32] So anyway, Hank has apparently helped.

[21:36] Oh, and Hope's mom, Janet Van Dyne, the original Wasp, Michelle Pfeiffer, she's back from the Quantum Zone.

[21:40] But she doesn't want to talk about it.

[21:42] She never wants to talk about her experiences there.

[21:43] And at first it's treated like trauma.

[21:45] But then eventually becomes revealed it's more like it's a dark secret, you know, rather than trauma.

Stuart Wellington

[21:51] She's embarrassed.

[21:52] She helped a guy take over the Quantum Zone.

Elliott Kalan

[21:54] Yeah.

[21:55] So Hank, he helped Cassie build a probe for the Quantum Realm so they can explore it.

[21:59] And Janet gets very angry at the idea of sending a signal into the Quantum Zone.

[22:03] She demands they turn it off, but it's too late.

[22:05] It turns into a quantum portal and sucks them all in.

[22:09] That's right.

[22:09] This movie starts up with a machine accidentally going bonkers and sucking them in.

[22:14] Like it's an episode of DuckTales.

[22:15] Like, come on, everybody.

[22:17] I like that.

[22:17] And later we're given an explanation for this.

[22:19] The villains did it.

[22:20] But it is so sloppily, like, or just these characters are being so sloppy.

[22:24] They're being so, like, they're acting like a Scooby-Doo gang, I feel like, at this point.

[22:28] Where they're like, we got this machine.

[22:30] What's it going to do?

[22:31] Turn it on.

[22:32] Like, is that Freedom Rock?

[22:34] Turn it up, you know.

Dan McCoy

[22:35] Allow me to turn it on before I explain how it works.

[22:38] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[22:38] So they're all sucked in.

[22:40] Now they're in, and they get split up.

[22:42] The Van Dynes slash Pims are in one place, and Scott and Cassie are in another.

[22:46] And they're in kind of a weird mushroom kingdom.

[22:48] And I was getting flashbacks to the Super Mario Brothers movie.

[22:50] Maybe we'll talk about it sometime on the podcast.

Dan McCoy

[22:52] I do think that we should take a little time, now that we've been introduced to the Quantum

[22:55] Zone, to talk about the Quantum Zone.

[22:56] Yeah, let's do it.

[22:57] Yeah, sure.

[22:59] Look, I want to offer this disclaimer.

[23:04] I'm going to say some unflattering.

[23:05] You've never been to the Quantum Zone.

[23:07] I'm going to say some unflattering things about the way the movie looks.

[23:11] But I do not think that that is the fault of the artists who worked on it.

[23:15] I think the artists who worked on it are given unreasonable deadlines by Marvel from everything

[23:22] that I've read.

[23:23] That there's a house Marvel style that dampens the sort of brights and the darks and the colors

[23:31] in a way that I'm not wild about.

Elliott Kalan

[23:32] Ironically, since the house Marvel style for decades, pretty much, was the Jack Kirby style,

[23:37] which is all about bright colors, big, bold shapes, but above all, clarity.

[23:42] Like, clear, powerful images.

[23:44] And it feels like the Marvel movies are all about, yeah, kind of muddy colors and, you know,

[23:49] dim lighting and things like that.

Stuart Wellington

[23:51] Well, and if you look at past Jack Kirby, if you look at artists like Jim Lee, like artists

[23:55] that were the most, like, repopularized comics.

[23:59] It was all about these very distinctive poses.

[24:02] Yes.

[24:03] Like, images that really burn into your head.

[24:05] Iconic images.

Elliott Kalan

[24:06] Like, Marvel was about, the characters are super strong and complicated.

[24:10] But a lot of it, you're right, was about, like, iconic imagery and iconic visual moments, you know.

Dan McCoy

[24:15] And I will say that having seen this in the theater and then rewatched it for this podcast,

[24:21] the computer effects of sort of this realm look so much better, actually, on my home television

[24:30] than they did in the theater.

Elliott Kalan

[24:32] Well, also, you watched it in 4D, so there was water being sprayed in your face constantly.

Dan McCoy

[24:35] Well, I mean, I just think that, I wonder that this, like, heavily digital filmmaking,

[24:40] I mean, I know that we have digital projectors now, but, like, something about, like,

[24:43] having a high-quality, like, modern flat-screen television with really black, black, and whatnot,

[24:50] like, this very digital look plays well in that environment, whereas...

Stuart Wellington

[24:56] I do have a question.

[24:57] And you probably already did this.

[24:58] I don't want to be a jerk, but when you're at the theater,

[25:01] did you make sure to turn off the motion smoothing?

[25:04] Oh, shit.

[25:05] You should have done that.

Elliott Kalan

[25:06] You thought Nicole Kidman was moving a little too fast when she said,

[25:09] heartbreak feels good in a place like this.

Dan McCoy

[25:11] I told, I slipped the projection as 20 bucks.

[25:14] I'm like, please look at, make it look more like a soap opera.

Elliott Kalan

[25:17] Yeah, yeah.

[25:17] You said smooth the shit out of that motion.

Dan McCoy

[25:20] But, I mean, like, there's, like, look, the actual look of the Quantum Zone,

[25:23] I have no particular beef with.

[25:25] Like, there's a lot of cool stuff.

[25:26] I mean, like, they take, they just take the general idea of small,

[25:30] and so they've got these things that, like, look like amoeba or whatever

[25:33] when you're so much smaller than what that would be.

[25:37] But that's fine.

[25:38] I get it.

[25:38] It's cool for a silly.

Elliott Kalan

[25:40] Except I would say, I would want them to go with that idea of small more,

[25:43] because eventually, like, it just starts feeling like they're walking around Mos Eisley,

[25:46] you know, or Coruscant.

[25:47] Yeah.

[25:48] Like, it stops, it feels like, and it's.

Stuart Wellington

[25:50] Well, that's the Kang influence, dude.

[25:52] That is the Kang influence.

[25:53] He's got his own boring house style.

Elliott Kalan

[25:55] He loves Star Wars.

[25:57] I mean, and, well, I think that's the thing is,

[25:59] there's a, just as the personalities of the characters are not particularly distinctive,

[26:03] the image, like, the world they're in doesn't feel particularly distinctive.

[26:06] It's not like, I'm like, even the fact, like, you think about the Star Wars planets,

[26:10] and it's like, Endor feels distinctive to you, and it's just a fucking forest, you know?

[26:14] It's just woods.

[26:15] Yeah.

[26:15] But it's so different from the other stuff you see in Star Wars,

[26:17] and it feels like you're in the woods, you know?

[26:19] And here I was like, if you asked me to imagine the quantum zone,

[26:23] I'd be like, it's real glowy.

[26:25] Like, it's real glowy and kind of amorphous,

[26:27] and there's just aliens kind of walking around.

[26:29] But there's no, I don't have a sense of it, you know?

Stuart Wellington

[26:31] It looks like a Tech Death album cover or something.

Elliott Kalan

[26:34] Yeah.

[26:34] It doesn't have that distinctive, iconic thing about it where I'm like,

[26:37] oh, that's what the quantum zone feels like to me.

[26:39] As opposed to, like, I'm trying to think of a modern movie that does it really well.

[26:44] But even, like, you look at, like, everything everywhere all at once,

[26:48] and, like, each of the different worlds she's in feels different from the other worlds that she's in.

[26:52] And I can picture those in my mind,

[26:54] because maybe because there's something simple about each of them, you know?

[26:56] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[26:57] Or maybe if, like, Tarsim had directed the quantum zone.

[27:00] Oh, if only.

Elliott Kalan

[27:02] Tarsim has not been absorbed into the Marvel Universe,

[27:04] and there's, I'm not a huge fan normally of directors that have a distinctive look

[27:09] or feel to their movies being absorbed into IP,

[27:12] but I would love to see Tarsim do a Marvel movie.

[27:14] Yes.

[27:14] Oh, man.

[27:15] That'd be amazing.

Dan McCoy

[27:16] But the biggest thing I wanted to say, though,

[27:17] is, like, this feels to me like the most expensive green screen movie ever made,

[27:22] because there's something about the lighting on the characters

[27:25] versus the lighting in the background.

[27:26] It never quite matches.

[27:27] There's a scene where they're, like, flying, you know,

[27:30] like, they're, like, riding a flying manta ray,

[27:33] and they're all, like, moving, like, whoa,

[27:35] like they're in the Star Trek bridge,

[27:36] but they're all, like, moving in different directions.

[27:38] Like, it doesn't feel like they're interacting with the environment.

Stuart Wellington

[27:40] Well, it's because that manta ray's body's undulating underneath their feet.

[27:43] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[27:45] Yeah, this is what Stuart puts in the incorrectly regarded as goof section of IMDb.

[27:50] If you look closely,

[27:50] the manta ray's body is undulating differently on different surface areas.

[27:54] Yeah.

[27:55] No, but I think there's a, like, overall,

[27:58] it feels like a movie that had to be done by a certain time,

[28:01] and so a lot of things are being done without that, like,

[28:05] that extra special moment of thought,

[28:06] which I know is hard to do when you're working on the third Ant-Man movie,

[28:08] and it's got to be done by a certain time.

[28:11] It's a bigger scale and more effects

[28:12] than usually in those movies.

[28:13] You've got more actors to juggle.

[28:15] Like, you're supposed to set up,

[28:17] you're supposed to set up Kang,

[28:19] even though he's already been set up by a season of a television show.

[28:22] Like, it felt,

[28:23] it also felt weird being like,

[28:25] they're kind of hiding Kang,

[28:26] and it's like,

[28:27] I don't know,

[28:27] do you want me to watch all this shit,

[28:29] or do you not want me to watch it?

[28:30] Because if you don't want me to watch it,

[28:31] I know who fucking Kang is.

[28:32] But if you don't want me to watch it,

[28:34] then don't make,

[28:35] don't put out so much.

Dan McCoy

[28:37] Don't,

Elliott Kalan

[28:37] don't act like I'm supposed to be happy about it.

Dan McCoy

[28:39] He's in the theater arguing with the usher.

[28:41] He's like,

[28:41] this movie wants me to believe that I don't know who Kang is already.

[28:44] I know Kang.

Elliott Kalan

[28:45] I know Kang.

[28:46] I saw him in the show.

[28:47] Anyway,

[28:49] it's a,

[28:50] so,

[28:50] back to the plot.

[28:51] Scott and Cassidy get attacked by a glowing tentacle monster,

[28:53] or Amoeba,

[28:54] or something,

[28:54] but they get saved by a bunch of sci-fi weirdos.

[28:56] And we're going to get to know these sci-fi weirdos.

[28:58] They're the rebels.

[28:59] And Janet,

[29:00] you got,

Stuart Wellington

[29:01] you got a laser face.

[29:02] You got a,

[29:03] no,

[29:03] I mean,

[29:03] it is a character with a laser for a face,

Elliott Kalan

[29:05] but he's not laser face.

[29:06] Okay.

[29:07] And I'm sure some of these are characters from the comics,

[29:09] but I did not recognize any of them,

[29:11] you know?

[29:12] And if you don't recognize any of them,

Stuart Wellington

[29:15] Joe six pack,

[29:16] average American has no idea.

Elliott Kalan

[29:19] I'm starting to get the feeling I had when I got off a train,

[29:22] when the green lantern movie came out,

[29:23] I got off a train in grand central station.

[29:25] And I saw a poster that just had a picture of Abin Sur from the Green Lantern movie,

[29:29] and it just said Abin Sur underneath.

[29:30] And I'm like,

[29:31] if my mom gets off a train,

[29:33] is she supposed to look at that and be like,

[29:34] oh,

[29:34] cool,

[29:35] Abin Sur.

[29:35] I can't wait to see that movie.

[29:37] Like,

Elliott Kalan

[29:37] no,

Dan McCoy

[29:37] they're introducing you to Abin Sur.

[29:39] They're like,

[29:40] Hey,

[29:40] this guy,

[29:40] you see him?

[29:41] You see what he looks like?

[29:42] That's Abin Sur.

[29:43] And so when you encounter him later,

[29:44] you don't confuse him with Gnort or whatever.

Elliott Kalan

[29:47] Yeah.

[29:47] I mean,

[29:48] how can you confuse him with Gnort?

[29:49] He's hilarious.

[29:50] But here's,

[29:51] and just that,

[29:52] that brings me back to one other thing I'm going to say before I get back to the plot,

[29:55] which is that,

[29:56] so I just saw Guardians of the Galaxy 3,

[29:57] which I enjoyed a lot.

[29:58] There are things that I didn't love about it,

[30:00] but I enjoyed it a lot.

[30:01] And it just reminded me like,

[30:03] oh,

[30:03] that was a movie that was introducing new characters for most people.

[30:06] Most people were not familiar with those characters,

[30:08] but they all had like distinct personality quirks.

[30:10] I mean,

[30:10] over time,

[30:11] their voices have gotten a little similar,

[30:13] which happens to all characters who share stories together.

[30:15] But like,

[30:16] that's what I'm missing from some of these,

[30:18] from some of these movies.

[30:19] Yeah.

[30:19] It's like distinct character voices.

[30:21] Well.

[30:21] And distinct looks.

Dan McCoy

[30:23] Also,

[30:23] this reminds me,

[30:24] I'm glad you brought up Guardians 3,

[30:26] because I wanted to say like,

[30:27] to me,

[30:27] like,

[30:29] those are the poles maybe of this latest phase,

[30:33] like,

[30:33] with Quantum Mania at the,

[30:36] towards the bottom,

[30:36] and Guardians 3 at the top.

[30:38] And like,

[30:40] think about Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3.

[30:43] Like,

[30:44] sure,

[30:44] there's kind of a little bit of a cosmic repercussion for like stuff that's going on.

[30:51] But the main like through line that you are following is this character that we know and love is in danger.

[31:00] And it is a personal issue,

[31:02] like,

[31:03] that they have to save him,

[31:06] you know,

[31:06] and fight them.

[31:06] You're talking about Adam Warlock?

Elliott Kalan

[31:08] Yeah,

[31:09] that better be who you're talking about.

[31:10] I mean,

[31:10] I will admit,

[31:11] Dan,

[31:11] no,

[31:11] I think you're right.

[31:12] There's a personal stake to it.

Dan McCoy

[31:14] Yeah,

[31:14] I felt so much more engagement,

[31:16] is what I'm saying,

[31:17] about like what's happening,

[31:18] and emotionally caring about them like getting through their mission,

[31:22] than this movie,

[31:23] where I'm just like,

[31:24] I don't,

[31:24] I mean,

[31:25] to be fair,

[31:25] honestly,

[31:26] this movie makes a joke at the end.

[31:27] One of my favorite parts about like,

[31:29] was this a good thing that we did?

[31:30] But we'll get there.

[31:31] Yeah.

[31:31] But also,

Elliott Kalan

[31:31] it's not totally clear.

[31:34] I mean,

[31:34] I guess their goal is to go home,

[31:35] but even that doesn't seem like they're that worried about it.

[31:38] But I will admit,

[31:39] with Guardians,

[31:40] I was glad that every now and then they'd be like,

[31:41] remember,

[31:42] we got to do this for Rocket,

[31:43] because I'd be like,

[31:43] oh yeah,

[31:44] right,

[31:44] that's why you're doing this.

[31:45] I kind of forgot,

[31:46] with all the hubbub,

[31:47] like what the through line of the movie is.

Stuart Wellington

[31:49] But it was there.

[31:49] Instead,

[31:49] it is interesting that like,

[31:51] in the first two Ant-Man movies,

[31:53] the worst thing that could happen is you could go to the quantum realm,

[31:56] because there's no coming back from that.

[31:58] And then in this one,

[31:59] they're like,

[31:59] eh,

[32:00] we're here,

[32:00] let's fuck around for a little bit.

Elliott Kalan

[32:02] Yeah.

[32:03] There's never a sense of like,

[32:05] oh no,

[32:05] we're trapped here.

[32:06] We're here forever.

[32:07] Because they got Michelle Pfeiffer out.

[32:09] So I guess they know it's not a one-way trip.

[32:11] But at the same time,

[32:11] there's no,

[32:12] the level of danger feels incredibly minimal.

Dan McCoy

[32:15] You know?

[32:16] Now what about the level of danger feels?

Elliott Kalan

[32:18] Also incredibly minimal.

[32:20] Everyone in the movie gets respect.

[32:23] So,

[32:23] anyway.

[32:24] Well,

Elliott Kalan

[32:25] MODOK.

[32:26] MODOK gets no respect.

[32:27] He gets no respect.

[32:28] And we'll talk about that.

[32:29] My issues with the portrayal of MODOK in the film.

Stuart Wellington

[32:31] If they had cast MODOK in the 80s,

[32:34] Rodney Dangerfield would have been a good MODOK.

[32:36] Oh,

Elliott Kalan

[32:36] he would have been an amazing MODOK.

[32:38] That would have been great.

[32:40] Or,

[32:40] what's his name?

[32:43] Of Lenny and Squiggy fame?

[32:45] Not Michael McKeon.

[32:47] I have no idea.

[32:49] The listeners know who I'm talking about.

[32:51] Yeah.

[32:52] Anyway.

[32:52] So,

[32:53] Janet is like,

[32:56] Janet,

[32:56] what's going on?

[32:56] And she's like,

[32:57] I don't want to talk about it.

[32:58] And it's like,

[32:58] well,

[32:58] we're in the quantum realm.

[32:59] Can you explain some stuff?

[33:01] But she refuses to.

[33:02] And she just tells them that

[33:03] it's a whole universe of worlds within worlds,

[33:06] which is the least helpful thing she could say.

[33:08] Doesn't really seem to be true.

[33:10] Also,

Dan McCoy

[33:11] I mean,

[33:12] they have nothing but time

[33:13] to tell the story now.

[33:14] They have to walk huge long paths

[33:19] and deal with the natives.

[33:22] They've got a bunch of,

[33:23] she can tell the story of what happened.

[33:25] I don't know why she puts it off so long.

Elliott Kalan

[33:27] You know who also would have made a great MODOK

[33:29] is Gilbert Gottfried.

[33:30] He would have been a fantastic MODOK.

[33:30] Oh, man.

[33:31] Oh, yeah.

[33:32] So,

[33:32] and meanwhile,

[33:33] Scott and Cassie end up at this,

[33:35] the alien weirdos take them to this village

[33:37] and they make them drink this translation ooze,

[33:39] which allows them to understand everybody.

[33:41] And the Van Dyne's run into like some Tusken Raider types

[33:44] and Janet goes through a knife fighting ritual

[33:47] with one of them

[33:47] and it turns out they're friends of hers

[33:49] and they give them a flying manta ray to ride.

[33:53] Yeah.

[33:53] And the aliens are like goofy aliens.

[33:56] They meet,

[33:56] one of them is Quaz,

[33:57] a telepath who's played by,

[33:59] it's Chidi from The Good Place, right?

[34:01] Yeah.

[34:01] And it's one of those,

[34:04] and like Scott,

[34:05] and he's a telepath

[34:05] and he keeps hearing Scott

[34:07] saying embarrassing things in his mind.

Stuart Wellington

[34:09] It's a very like one joke.

[34:12] This telepathic character

Elliott Kalan

[34:13] is only used for a comic relief

[34:15] the whole movie

[34:16] and it's the same joke over and over again.

Dan McCoy

[34:19] You scoffed at the seven holes thing

[34:21] or the holes thing,

[34:23] but I,

[34:25] or like how many holes do you have in your body?

[34:26] But I do like then that like Chidi,

[34:28] I'm sorry,

[34:29] I would love to talk,

[34:32] call him by his real name.

[34:33] No, just his character name.

[34:35] Remember the character.

[34:36] He shows up and is like,

[34:39] he has seven holes

[34:40] and I like,

[34:41] you know, Paul Rudd.

Stuart Wellington

[34:42] William Jackson Harper.

[34:43] William Jackson Harper.

[34:43] He was a three name name.

[34:45] I can only remember two names at a time.

Dan McCoy

[34:48] Paul Rudd has this like look at his face

[34:49] where he's like checking the math.

[34:51] That's right.

[34:52] I think that's pretty solid as a joke.

Elliott Kalan

[34:55] Yeah, I mean, it is.

[34:56] It's just one of those things where like,

[34:57] then if that alien character went on

[34:59] to do anything other than talk about holes.

[35:01] Yes.

[35:01] It's just every character,

[35:02] it's like an SNL sketch.

[35:03] Every character has one game

[35:05] that they play forever.

Dan McCoy

[35:06] I didn't like,

[35:09] there's like this sort of

[35:10] barbarian woman character.

[35:12] That's Jen Tora.

[35:13] Jen Tora,

[35:14] who feels like a joke

[35:15] on the idea of like what people,

[35:18] like executives think

[35:19] a strong female character is

[35:20] where it's just like,

[35:21] well, let's literally just make her the strongest

[35:23] and then give her nothing else.

[35:26] Yeah.

[35:26] I feel like in the recent

[35:28] Dungeons and Dragons movie,

[35:29] like Michelle Rodriguez plays

[35:30] the person of that character

[35:31] and it's good

[35:32] because like she has a full character

[35:34] and personality.

[35:35] And here it's just like,

[35:37] she's strong.

Elliott Kalan

[35:38] But I mean,

[35:38] nobody gets that much personality

[35:39] in the movie.

[35:40] Yeah.

[35:40] But I agree.

[35:41] It's doubly annoying for that reason.

[35:43] And she's like,

[35:44] and she's like,

[35:46] oh,

[35:46] you come from the same world

[35:47] as the Conqueror.

[35:48] He'll do anything to find you.

[35:50] I don't know why she would jump

[35:51] to that conclusion.

[35:52] The Kang,

[35:53] I don't think,

[35:53] has ever shown any interest otherwise.

[35:56] And also like,

[35:57] no,

[35:57] and they go through so many

[35:58] circumlocutions

[35:59] throughout the movie

[36:00] to avoid saying Kang

[36:01] until like the last minute

[36:03] when they have to.

[36:03] It's always he or him

[36:05] or the Conqueror.

[36:06] And it's something that

[36:07] they do in comic books a lot too.

[36:08] But it's always bugged me

[36:09] where it's like,

[36:10] you will know when the time is right.

[36:11] Well,

[36:11] tell me now.

[36:12] Like,

[36:12] it can't hurt me

[36:13] to have information right now.

Dan McCoy

[36:15] One of these days,

[36:16] though,

[36:16] it's going to be Dr. Doom

[36:17] and you're going to be so excited.

[36:19] Like,

[36:20] he's going to turn around

[36:21] and be like,

[36:21] ah?

Elliott Kalan

[36:22] Except they're going to,

[36:23] except they're going to like,

[36:24] they're going to tease it so much.

[36:26] I mean,

[36:26] that was the exciting thing

[36:27] about Thanos

[36:27] was there was almost no teasing.

[36:29] It was just,

[36:29] Master,

[36:30] they court death

[36:31] and you knew it was Thanos

[36:31] because he's in love with death

[36:33] even though they didn't go with that

[36:34] in the character eventually.

[36:35] And it turns out

[36:35] and I was like,

[36:36] Thanos?

[36:37] But at this point also,

[36:38] no Marvel character,

[36:39] I think,

[36:39] appearing in a movie

[36:40] would surprise me

[36:41] as much as Thanos did

[36:42] in that moment

[36:42] where I was like,

[36:43] this is a character

[36:44] I never expected to see

[36:45] in a movie

[36:46] because he has no

[36:47] mainstream public knowledge

[36:49] at that point.

[36:50] But now every Marvel character

[36:51] is that when Eros,

[36:52] Star Fox is showing up.

[36:53] John presents you as Reed Richards.

[36:54] when you have,

[36:56] when it's just taken for granted

[36:57] the audience is going to be,

[36:59] going to love

[36:59] hearing the X-Men theme song

[37:01] from the 90s

[37:01] as Patrick Stewart rolls out

[37:03] in a yellow hover chair,

[37:04] then there's nothing.

[37:05] There's nothing I can't expect.

[37:06] Morth the dead teenager

[37:07] is going to show up

[37:07] at some point.

[37:08] You know,

[37:08] like Night Nurse

[37:09] is going to show up

[37:09] or maybe she has already

[37:11] probably.

[37:12] Yeah,

[37:12] that sounds right.

[37:13] And it stops,

[37:15] at a certain point

[37:16] it stops being,

[37:17] can you believe

[37:17] we're getting all these characters

[37:19] into these movies

[37:19] and it becomes

[37:20] more IP,

[37:21] scrape the bottom of the barrel,

[37:22] get more IP,

[37:23] where's the slapstick movie,

[37:24] where's the movie about,

[37:26] where's the Great Lakes Avengers?

[37:27] Yeah,

[37:27] where's the great,

[37:28] I mean,

[37:28] I would love to write

[37:29] a Great Lakes Avengers movie.

[37:30] I've written them

[37:31] in the comics.

[37:32] But yeah,

[37:33] there's no character

[37:34] that isn't IP-able.

[37:36] So anyway.

[37:36] Kurt Vonnegut slapstick?

[37:38] So,

[37:38] what?

Dan McCoy

[37:40] I said,

[37:40] Kurt Vonnegut slapstick?

Elliott Kalan

[37:41] Yeah,

[37:42] Kurt Vonnegut slapstick

[37:43] starring the Marvel characters.

[37:47] So the Pimms,

[37:49] they end up in a Coruscant,

[37:50] Mos Eisley-looking place

[37:52] full of aliens.

[37:53] Can I,

Dan McCoy

[37:54] sorry,

[37:54] I just,

[37:55] like this,

[37:55] this sequence so clearly

[37:57] wants to be the cantina sequence

[37:59] of this movie.

[38:00] Yes,

[38:00] they literally go to a bar.

[38:02] And I know

[38:02] that it's impossible

[38:03] for anything

[38:04] to have that impact

[38:05] again,

[38:06] really,

[38:06] but I was thinking

[38:08] about Star Wars

[38:09] and,

[38:10] you know,

[38:11] like that is like,

[38:13] it takes so long

[38:14] to see any aliens

[38:17] in Star Wars,

[38:17] really.

[38:18] And when we see a new one,

[38:20] we spend time with,

[38:21] like,

[38:21] we like the Jawas show up

[38:23] and then we spend a little time

[38:24] with the Jawas

[38:24] and then like,

[38:25] you know,

[38:25] we see the Tuscan Raiders.

[38:27] And then all of a sudden,

[38:29] like halfway through the movie,

[38:30] it's like,

[38:30] yeah,

[38:31] and here's an explosion

[38:32] of aliens,

[38:32] you know?

[38:33] And there's enough like,

[38:34] but like,

[38:35] I'm not amazed

[38:36] by this cantina scene

[38:37] if we have already been through

[38:38] so much like

[38:39] goop and glop.

[38:40] I feel like,

Elliott Kalan

[38:41] you're right,

[38:41] it's,

[38:42] the movie keeps,

[38:43] there are a lot of scenes

[38:44] where it just shows

[38:44] a bunch of aliens

[38:45] and that the impact

[38:46] is dulled

[38:47] for us having seen so many,

[38:48] but also like,

[38:50] we saw this

[38:50] in a famous movie,

[38:52] Star Wars,

[38:53] and then Star Wars did it

[38:54] a couple more times

[38:55] in the sequels

[38:56] just come up with a new place

[38:58] for them to meet.

[38:59] Like,

[38:59] maybe don't have them meet

[39:00] at a bar.

[39:01] Maybe have them meet

[39:01] somewhere different.

[39:02] I think bars are pretty cool,

[39:04] guys.

[39:04] Yes, sure.

[39:04] Bars are cool,

[39:06] but even like,

[39:07] especially since,

[39:08] I think it's supposed to be

[39:08] kind of a clandestine meeting

[39:10] that they're going to,

[39:10] like,

[39:11] I know there's a pod racing

[39:12] in Star Wars,

[39:13] but like,

[39:13] show them going to an athletic

[39:14] game or something like that.

[39:15] Like,

[39:15] show them going to,

[39:16] I would love to see them

[39:16] going to an alien opera

[39:18] or something like that.

[39:19] And they're like,

[39:20] they can make jokes about that,

[39:21] how inexplicable it is.

[39:23] And halfway through the opera,

[39:24] the characters are vomiting

[39:24] on each other or something,

[39:25] and another alien is crying

[39:26] because it's so sad.

Dan McCoy

[39:27] They can learn about

[39:28] some kind of fifth element.

Elliott Kalan

[39:30] Yeah, exactly.

[39:31] Well,

[39:31] it's just love.

[39:31] It's an alien opera.

[39:32] That was one alien singer.

[39:34] With an amazing range.

[39:36] Freddie Mercury,

[39:36] eat your heart out.

[39:37] This lady's range is astounding.

[39:39] Get out of here.

[39:40] You've been deposed.

[39:42] Mike Patton,

[39:43] pack it up, buddy.

[39:45] Rob Halford,

[39:45] there's a new

[39:46] Judas Priest in town.

[39:48] Sure.

[39:49] So the,

[39:50] anyway,

[39:51] but who shows up

[39:52] but an old friend of Janet's,

[39:53] an old lover,

[39:54] as it's hinted,

[39:55] and it's played by

[39:57] Bill Murray.

[39:58] Hey guys,

[39:59] remember when you were excited

[40:00] by Bill Murray

[40:00] showing up in movies

[40:01] when you didn't expect it?

[40:02] How many years ago was that?

[40:03] Zombieland?

[40:03] Was that the last time?

Dan McCoy

[40:06] Well,

[40:06] also,

[40:07] like,

[40:07] it's hard to not expect it

[40:08] when it's in the trailer.

[40:09] Again,

[40:10] we talked about this recently

[40:11] on the show,

[40:12] not the film's fault,

[40:13] but if it's in the trailer,

[40:14] yeah.

[40:15] If you're gonna make it

[40:16] a fun surprise,

[40:17] make it a fun surprise.

[40:18] You know,

[40:19] don't give it away

[40:20] in the actual trailer.

Elliott Kalan

[40:21] I would say it is a,

[40:23] I would say,

[40:23] I mean,

[40:23] and Bill Murray's performance

[40:24] in this,

[40:24] I actually,

[40:25] like a lot.

[40:26] I think he does a lot

[40:26] with not very little,

[40:28] but,

[40:28] he does a lot

[40:29] with very little,

[40:29] but the,

[40:30] but like,

[40:30] if you really want it

[40:31] to be a fun surprise,

[40:33] find somebody

[40:33] who's not Bill Murray

[40:34] to do it with.

[40:35] Like,

[40:35] at this point,

[40:36] I've seen him show up

[40:37] in cameos

[40:37] in so many movies.

[40:39] I'm kind of done with him.

[40:40] I'm bored with him.

[40:41] Like,

[40:41] find someone that,

[40:43] find someone,

[40:43] when he showed up

[40:44] in like Zombieland,

[40:45] I remember it was genuinely like,

[40:46] oh,

[40:46] we haven't seen Bill Murray

[40:47] in things in a long time.

[40:48] It's a funny idea

[40:49] that he would be showing up

[40:50] in this world,

[40:51] and especially that he has

[40:52] a mansion

[40:52] with his initials

[40:53] on the gates

[40:54] and stuff like that,

[40:54] and he's been pretending

[40:56] to be a zombie

[40:56] for years

[40:57] in order to get by.

[41:00] Like,

[41:00] find someone that,

[41:01] instead of just repeating

[41:02] the same person,

[41:03] find someone else

[41:04] who would create

[41:05] a similar effect in us

[41:06] now,

[41:06] and I don't know

[41:07] who that,

[41:07] I mean,

[41:08] outside of like,

[41:09] and this is a little

[41:09] too similar

[41:10] because he's also

[41:10] from Ghostbusters,

[41:11] but like,

[41:11] if Rick Moranis

[41:12] had shown up

[41:13] in this part,

[41:13] I would have been like,

[41:14] you got Rick Moranis

[41:15] in your movie?

[41:16] Like,

[41:17] that's amazing.

[41:17] Like,

[41:18] get someone who,

[41:19] the same way that

[41:19] when Bill Murray

[41:20] showed up in Rushmore,

[41:21] it was like,

[41:22] you got Bill Murray

[41:22] in this little movie?

[41:23] Like,

[41:24] that's,

[41:24] you know,

[41:24] it's been insane.

[41:25] Yeah, man,

Dan McCoy

[41:25] and honestly,

[41:26] I'm just,

[41:27] now I'm so excited

[41:28] about this Rick Moranis idea

[41:29] because if he was like,

[41:31] playing it,

[41:32] the same character,

[41:34] like,

[41:34] we've seen Bill Murray

[41:36] be like,

[41:36] sort of the loose,

[41:37] like,

[41:38] confident in his own

[41:40] appeal.

[41:40] The kind of lounge lizard type.

[41:41] Yeah,

[41:42] like,

[41:43] guy.

[41:44] I mean,

[41:44] like,

[41:45] Rick Moranis,

[41:45] we haven't seen him

[41:45] do that since like,

[41:46] SCTV,

[41:47] you know?

[41:48] Yeah.

[41:48] Like,

[41:48] he's been a nerd.

Stuart Wellington

[41:50] He's known for shrinking

[41:51] his own children.

[41:53] Mm-hmm.

[41:53] Yeah,

[41:54] he is known for that.

[41:54] That's true.

[41:55] But also,

[41:55] honey,

[41:56] also once he blew up a baby

Elliott Kalan

[41:57] and once he shrunk ourselves.

Stuart Wellington

[41:59] Yeah,

[41:59] it's true.

[41:59] But what if he shrunk himself

[42:00] so small

[42:02] that he entered

[42:02] the quantum realm?

Elliott Kalan

[42:04] I mean,

[42:04] I would love it

[42:04] if it turned out

[42:05] it was the same character

[42:06] from the Honey,

[42:06] I Shrunk the Kids movies.

[42:08] When I was,

[42:09] when I was telling my wife about-

Stuart Wellington

[42:09] They call them Zelinsky.

Elliott Kalan

[42:11] I was telling my wife

[42:12] and I was like,

[42:13] I was like,

[42:14] oh yeah,

[42:14] they turn on a device

[42:15] and it accidentally sucks them in.

[42:16] She goes,

[42:18] like,

[42:18] and so,

[42:20] it turns,

[42:21] so,

[42:22] he's like

[42:23] an old freedom fighter buddy

[42:25] but now he's thrown in

[42:26] with the bad guy

[42:26] who we still don't know the name of.

[42:27] His name is Krylar

[42:28] and it turns out

[42:29] it's a trap.

[42:30] It's a setup.

[42:31] And Jintour,

[42:32] the warrior lady,

[42:33] she talks to Cassie and Scott

[42:34] about how the conqueror,

[42:36] they still didn't name him,

[42:37] destroyed their homes

[42:37] and Cassie's like,

[42:38] we gotta help.

[42:40] And Ant-Man's like,

[42:40] this isn't our fight.

[42:41] Let's just get out of here.

[42:42] And it turns,

[42:43] they mention Janet

[42:43] and they go,

[42:44] Janet Van Dyne?

[42:45] They've heard of her.

[42:45] Anyway,

[42:46] Krylar is like,

[42:47] a lot of people died

[42:48] because of you, Janet.

[42:49] And that's when Kang's

[42:49] troops show up.

[42:51] And then,

[42:51] the,

[42:52] and then,

[42:53] Are they really cool or anything?

[42:55] They look cool?

[42:55] They are not.

[42:56] They're not cool.

[42:56] For a movie that otherwise

[42:57] is full of weirdo aliens,

[42:59] they're just like

[43:00] guys in armor

[43:01] with like bubble,

[43:02] glowing bubble helmets.

[43:03] Okay.

[43:03] Like,

[43:03] there are a lot of Mysterios

[43:04] and they're not particularly tough.

[43:07] They're not particularly-

[43:08] Mysterio,

Stuart Wellington

[43:09] one of the coolest character designs

[43:10] of all time though.

Elliott Kalan

[43:11] It's an amazing,

[43:12] impractical character design.

[43:14] He has a huge fishbowl on his head.

[43:15] He wears green checked pajamas.

[43:17] He has like eyes

[43:19] on his cape clasp.

[43:21] The biggest cape

[43:22] a man could wear.

[43:23] His gloves have these weird

[43:25] kind of like sharp curlicues

[43:27] coming off the ends of them.

[43:29] Oh,

[43:29] man,

[43:29] what a character.

[43:30] You can't,

[43:30] walking around in that costume

[43:31] must be incredibly uncomfortable

[43:34] and hard to do.

[43:35] Okay,

[43:36] so they show up

[43:37] and also,

[43:38] but they've also sent

[43:38] the ultimate weapon.

[43:39] He has sent the ultimate weapon.

[43:41] He threw him at him

[43:43] and I'm like,

[43:43] you cannot have two characters

[43:44] that you're referring to

[43:45] only by their pronouns

[43:46] and not naming them

[43:47] because they're talking about Kang

[43:48] and also MODOK.

[43:49] That's right,

[43:50] MODOK showing up.

[43:52] And the heroes fight Kang's troops

[43:53] and some aliens

[43:55] and then they run off

[43:56] in Krylar's organic ship

[43:57] and Mike Douglas

[43:59] has to stick his hands

[44:00] in some goop

[44:01] to make it fly

[44:02] and so forth.

[44:03] And so the alien refugee village

[44:06] gets attacked by Kang's troops,

[44:07] lasers,

[44:08] aliens,

[44:09] there's electro lassos.

[44:10] Cassie runs in,

[44:11] she's got her own Ant-Man suit

[44:12] and Scott saves her

[44:15] and tries to teach her

[44:15] his trick

[44:16] where you suddenly get very big

[44:18] and punch someone in the chin.

Stuart Wellington

[44:20] And their Ant-Man suits,

[44:21] this is all digital

[44:23] at this point,

[44:23] right?

[44:24] They don't actually have,

[44:25] yeah.

[44:26] I don't think there's any real suits.

[44:27] I feel like in the first movie or two

[44:27] they had like actual physical helmets

[44:30] that they put on their heads.

Elliott Kalan

[44:32] I mean,

[44:32] they might sometimes.

[44:33] They might occasionally,

[44:34] but it's mostly all digital.

[44:35] Yeah.

[44:35] Now,

[44:36] I...

[44:37] We're about to talk about MODOK,

[44:38] so this better be important, Dan.

Dan McCoy

[44:40] Well,

[44:40] you've put too much weight on it.

[44:42] It's not important at all

[44:43] because I just like continue

[44:45] to have trouble

[44:46] with the premise

[44:47] of Ant-Man and his powers

[44:48] because like part of it is like,

[44:50] I guess

[44:50] you have the same proportional strength

[44:54] when you're ant-sized.

[44:55] So what is the virtue

[44:56] of suddenly popping huge

[44:58] before punching?

Elliott Kalan

[45:00] Surprise, Dan.

[45:01] It's called surprise.

[45:01] They can't stop

[45:02] from getting punched in the face.

Dan McCoy

[45:04] Yeah,

[45:05] but you don't,

[45:05] you can surprise them

[45:06] by being an ant-sized man

[45:08] who is punching them.

[45:10] Like,

[45:11] I don't...

[45:11] Yeah,

[45:12] that's actually a good point.

[45:12] How are you going to get up

Elliott Kalan

[45:13] to their chin?

[45:13] You can't jump that high.

[45:14] You don't have proportional

[45:15] jumping powers.

[45:16] Oh,

[45:16] I see you.

Dan McCoy

[45:17] Oh,

[45:17] yeah.

[45:17] What?

[45:18] So you're doing,

[45:19] you're like...

[45:20] He's not Flea Man.

[45:22] Flea Man plays bass

Stuart Wellington

[45:23] for the Red Hot Chili Peppers.

[45:25] Okay,

Dan McCoy

[45:25] so you got to become big

[45:27] just so you can jump enough

[45:29] to then pop into small

[45:31] and then punch.

[45:32] Yes.

[45:32] That's the strategy?

Elliott Kalan

[45:33] Something like that.

[45:34] I don't know if your description

[45:35] is exactly accurate.

[45:36] Okay,

Elliott Kalan

[45:36] well,

[45:37] I mean...

[45:37] We're on the same page,

[45:37] I think.

[45:38] I have to say

Dan McCoy

[45:42] that in fucking Civil War,

[45:44] Ant-Man is like

[45:45] juggling a plane around

[45:47] when he's still supposed

[45:48] to have goddamn

[45:48] proportional strength.

[45:50] I don't understand it.

[45:51] So you're saying

Stuart Wellington

[45:51] when he gets super big,

[45:53] he would only have

[45:53] normal human strength?

[45:55] If anything,

[45:55] he would be weaker

[45:56] because the molecules

[45:56] in his body

[45:57] are further away.

[45:58] Dan,

[45:58] okay,

[45:58] Dan,

Elliott Kalan

[45:59] well,

[45:59] let's say one thing.

[46:00] Because of the

[46:00] squared cube law,

[46:01] if he got bigger,

[46:02] his body would be unable

[46:03] to support himself

[46:04] and he would collapse

[46:04] and die instantly.

[46:06] So let's not worry

[46:07] or his legs would break.

[46:08] It would not make

[46:09] for a good movie.

[46:10] So let's just get science

[46:11] out of the way in that one.

[46:12] Physics would,

[46:13] if he turned big,

[46:14] his knees are exploding

[46:15] and he is falling

[46:16] to the ground.

[46:17] So let's take that away.

[46:18] At least he can make himself

Stuart Wellington

[46:19] bigger without having

[46:20] to get like

[46:21] calf extension surgery.

[46:23] Have you seen these guys

[46:24] that get this on the internet?

[46:25] Where is it?

[46:25] How do I do that?

[46:27] I don't think you'd like it

[46:28] because do you really

[46:30] want to be taller

[46:31] but with little short arms?

[46:32] Do you want to be

[46:32] a human Tyrannosaurus?

[46:34] Yeah,

Elliott Kalan

[46:34] I do want to be

[46:34] a human Tyrannosaurus.

[46:35] That's my dream.

[46:36] Yeah,

[46:36] of course.

[46:37] To make it clear,

[46:38] I don't mind about,

Dan McCoy

[46:39] I don't mind any of this.

[46:40] I just think it's funny

[46:41] to think about.

Elliott Kalan

[46:42] No,

[46:42] so let's get the science straight.

[46:44] Okay,

[46:44] so according to you,

[46:45] when he gets really big,

[46:46] he should be super weak

[46:47] like a giant kitten.

[46:49] Yeah.

[46:49] Because he has

[46:50] proportional human strength

[46:51] at all times.

[46:52] Okay,

[46:53] now,

[46:54] let's look at him.

[46:55] The guy's had a hard time.

[46:57] He's an ex-con,

[46:57] hard to get a job.

[46:59] His daughter

[46:59] is not happy with him.

[47:00] Now you're going to bring

[47:01] physics to bear against him.

[47:03] Physics,

[47:03] the most implacable obstacle

[47:05] of all.

[47:06] I thought you were going.

[47:06] Dan,

[47:07] we'd be able to travel

[47:08] through time

[47:08] and faster than the speed of light

[47:09] if it wasn't for physics.

[47:11] Physics is the ultimate buzz kill.

[47:13] Hey Dan,

[47:13] you ever wish you could fly?

[47:14] Too bad,

[47:15] you can't.

[47:15] Physics says you can't.

[47:16] Physics is a big jerk.

[47:17] So,

[47:18] you know,

[47:18] I'm going to say,

[47:18] I'm going to take a proud

[47:20] anti-physics stand.

[47:21] I think I stand,

[47:22] I speak for the flop house

[47:23] when I say,

[47:23] physics,

[47:24] get out of here.

[47:25] We don't need you.

[47:26] We don't want you anymore.

[47:27] And this is not a

[47:28] Harry and the Hendersons,

[47:29] I'm telling you,

[47:29] we don't want you

[47:30] because we love you

[47:31] and we're trying to save you

[47:32] type of thing.

[47:32] This is sincere.

[47:33] This is honest.

[47:34] Physics,

[47:35] you're burnt.

[47:36] This is what you say

Dan McCoy

[47:37] until we start floating up

[47:38] into the air

[47:39] because

Elliott Kalan

[47:39] a stirring rebuttal

[47:41] from Elliot.

Dan McCoy

[47:42] Hey,

[47:43] I thought you were going

[47:44] to go somewhere else though.

[47:45] Like when you're like

[47:45] talking about how,

[47:46] what a bad life

[47:47] you're going to be like,

[47:48] so that's why

[47:49] the Avengers

[47:50] all got together

[47:51] and they constructed

[47:52] this balsa wood plane

[47:53] so he could fight it

[47:55] and make it feel better.

[47:56] They were like,

[47:56] look,

[47:56] Ant-Man's had a hard time.

Elliott Kalan

[47:58] I know we're all fighting

[47:58] the superhero civil war

[47:59] but can we do a solid

[48:00] for Ant-Man

[48:01] and just make a fake plane

[48:02] so he thinks he's strong?

[48:04] He just needs

Stuart Wellington

[48:04] a little more confidence.

Elliott Kalan

[48:05] You know what?

[48:06] Let's make the plane a cake.

[48:07] He'll pick it up

[48:08] and be like,

[48:09] I'm so strong

[48:09] and then he'll see

[48:10] its delicious cake

[48:11] and he'll be excited.

Stuart Wellington

[48:12] And in Endgame

[48:13] when he punches

[48:13] that giant floating space lizard,

[48:16] that thing was fake too

[48:17] and he wasn't really punching.

[48:18] He was just falling.

[48:19] Yeah,

[48:20] Thanos is in on it.

Elliott Kalan

[48:21] Thanos is like,

[48:21] I want to destroy

[48:22] half the universe

[48:23] but Ant-Man,

[48:24] we got to keep this ruse up

[48:26] because I would hate

[48:26] to see him cry

[48:27] and make my titan's heart break.

Stuart Wellington

[48:31] Thanos has a sense

[48:32] of fair play.

Elliott Kalan

[48:34] He's all about balance

Stuart Wellington

[48:35] and he thinks Scott Lang

[48:36] deserves a little balance

[48:37] in his life.

[48:37] He's had so much

Elliott Kalan

[48:38] bad stuff in his life.

[48:39] Time to balance it

[48:40] with some good stuff.

[48:41] So Thanos is using

[48:41] the Infinity Gauntlet

[48:42] to make a lottery scratcher

[48:44] that is guaranteed

[48:46] to win if Scott,

[48:47] not to win too much.

[48:48] You can't overbalance.

[48:48] He can't retire

[48:50] but win like $5,000,

[48:51] you know?

Stuart Wellington

[48:52] And when somebody

[48:52] shows up at the lunch order

[48:54] and it looks like

[48:55] somebody ordered

[48:55] a black and white cookie,

[48:56] half black,

[48:57] half white,

[48:57] up,

[48:58] Thanos.

[48:59] Thanos, of course,

[49:00] yeah.

[49:00] It's even, it's balanced.

Elliott Kalan

[49:00] It's the most balanced dessert.

[49:02] Yeah, we're aware.

[49:02] We're aware you feel that way.

[49:04] It's the same.

[49:04] The cereal is part

[49:05] of this balanced breakfast.

Dan McCoy

[49:07] Thanos,

[49:07] you can only say that

[49:08] because you're having

[49:09] a grapefruit with it

[49:10] and some lean protein.

[49:13] Okay.

[49:13] You'll never guess

Elliott Kalan

[49:14] what my favorite

[49:14] gymnastics routine,

[49:15] the balance beam, Thanos.

[49:16] We know it's the balance beam.

[49:18] We know it is.

Stuart Wellington

[49:19] Yeah, it's your favorite

[49:20] scene from Final Destination

[49:21] is the one with the balance beam.

Elliott Kalan

[49:23] Now to put on my sneakers,

[49:24] you'll never guess

[49:25] what brand new balance.

[49:27] We know it's new balance, Thanos.

[49:28] You wear new balance sneakers.

[49:29] We know it.

[49:32] You know what?

[49:33] My favorite choreographer,

[49:35] Balanchine,

[49:36] because it sounds

[49:36] kind of like balance

[49:37] and ballet dancers

[49:39] have to keep their balance

[49:40] pretty well.

Stuart Wellington

[49:41] No, he's got a good point.

[49:42] You're stretching, Thanos.

[49:43] You're stretching.

[49:44] A lot of layers.

[49:44] Yeah.

[49:45] Uh-huh.

[49:46] Okay, what happened?

Elliott Kalan

[49:48] So anyways,

[49:48] so MODOK attacks.

[49:50] Let's talk about MODOK.

[49:51] I feel like I ran out of juice though.

[49:53] So MODOK,

[49:54] he's in the comics.

[49:56] You know him.

[49:56] He's a big giant head

[49:57] who floats around

[49:58] with a little arm and little legs.

[49:59] He's got mental powers.

[50:00] He's the mental organism

[50:01] designed only for killing.

[50:02] They change that here,

[50:03] I think to what?

[50:04] Mechanical organism

[50:05] or something like that

[50:06] or mobile organism

[50:07] designed only for killing.

[50:09] And there's a big reveal

[50:11] that MODOK knows them.

[50:12] It's actually their old

[50:14] their old arch foe Darren

[50:16] from

[50:17] Corey Stahl, yeah.

[50:18] Corey Stahl,

[50:19] yellow jacket from Ant-Man.

[50:20] From Girls, yeah.

[50:21] Was he in Ant-Man 2?

[50:22] No.

Dan McCoy

[50:23] He was in the quantum realm, dog.

[50:25] As far as we knew,

[50:25] he had died

[50:27] in the first Ant-Man.

Elliott Kalan

[50:29] But instead,

[50:29] he got sucked into the quantum zone

[50:30] and Kang turned him into MODOK.

[50:33] And I have to say,

[50:34] I am not a huge fan

[50:35] of the way they have

[50:36] shoehorned MODOK

[50:37] into this mythos.

Dan McCoy

[50:38] Okay.

[50:39] Because I was going to ask, Elliot.

[50:40] Here's the thing.

[50:42] For me,

[50:42] a man who has

[50:44] no particular

[50:46] history with MODOK

[50:48] other than

[50:49] I could,

[50:50] you know,

[50:50] if you showed me

[50:51] a picture of MODOK,

[50:52] I could say,

[50:52] that's MODOK.

Elliott Kalan

[50:53] You could pick him out

[50:54] on a lineup.

[50:54] A lineup of giant heads.

[50:56] You could pick him out

[50:56] if it's like

[50:57] Easter Island,

[50:58] MODOK,

[50:59] you could pick up MODOK.

Stuart Wellington

[51:00] Yeah.

[51:00] You could also pick him

[51:01] out of the lineup

[51:01] in Marvel vs. Capcom 3,

[51:03] the video game,

[51:04] because he's one

[51:04] of the playable characters.

Elliott Kalan

[51:05] Who else would be

[51:06] on that big head lineup

[51:07] like Bonk

[51:08] from the video games?

[51:11] And who else?

Stuart Wellington

[51:12] Sam the Eagle.

Elliott Kalan

[51:13] His head's not that big.

[51:14] Sam the Eagle.

[51:15] Johnny Lee Miller.

[51:16] His head is

[51:17] if anything's small

[51:18] for him up his head.

[51:19] Maybe like

[51:19] the Boss Baby

[51:20] would be on there.

[51:21] Boss Baby,

[51:22] definitely.

[51:22] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[51:23] Mega Mind.

[51:24] So Dan,

[51:25] you don't have a-

[51:26] My point is,

Dan McCoy

[51:26] as a man with

[51:27] no particular

[51:27] like I have

[51:30] affection for MODOK

[51:31] in the sense that

[51:32] like as the sort

[51:33] of person I am,

[51:34] the idea of a floating

[51:35] head in a mechanical

[51:37] body that killed

[51:38] people is cool.

[51:41] But-

[51:41] He's got low arms and wings.

Elliott Kalan

[51:44] It's not so much

[51:45] that he has a huge head

[51:46] with mechanical arms.

[51:46] Those are his arms and legs,

[51:47] but his head is just so enormous

[51:48] that it's become

[51:49] most of his body.

[51:50] Right, right.

Dan McCoy

[51:51] But, okay.

[51:52] Because if you mess

[51:53] with the head,

[51:53] you're dead.

[51:54] For me,

[51:56] that person,

[51:58] this was a fun

[51:59] use of a previous character

[52:01] I was not going to expect.

Elliott Kalan

[52:03] I think that's-

[52:04] And you know what?

[52:05] There's something to be said

[52:06] for tying up a loose end

[52:08] and not introducing

[52:09] yet another human

[52:10] who has fallen

[52:10] through the quantum zone.

[52:11] I think my preferred

[52:13] version of this

[52:14] would be to have

[52:14] a different character

[52:15] than MODOK,

[52:16] but that's me.

[52:16] I'm being a comics snob,

[52:18] I guess.

[52:18] To me,

[52:18] MODOK is a Captain America

[52:19] bad guy.

[52:20] He's created by

[52:21] advanced idea mechanics.

[52:22] And one of the things

[52:23] that I like about MODOK

[52:24] is in his original origin,

[52:26] he is like the janitor.

[52:27] He's someone of lower

[52:28] intelligence that they use

[52:29] as a test subject,

[52:30] and it makes him so powerful

[52:31] that he takes over

[52:32] the whole place.

[52:32] And I love the turnabout

[52:33] of the guy that they used

[52:35] as a guinea pig

[52:36] becoming their boss.

[52:39] And of course,

[52:39] we don't have to get

[52:40] into Mo Dam,

[52:41] the female version of MODOK

[52:42] who showed up

[52:43] many years later.

[52:44] But there was something about-

Dan McCoy

[52:45] Wait,

[52:46] does she have like

[52:47] a little pink bow?

[52:48] No,

[52:49] she does have lipstick though.

Elliott Kalan

[52:50] She does wear lipstick,

[52:51] but she does not wear a bow.

[52:52] She uses an enormous lipstick

[52:54] the size of a howitzer shell

[52:55] that she waves,

[52:56] I guess,

[52:57] has someone else

[52:58] apply to her

[52:59] because of her little arms.

Stuart Wellington

[53:01] Put XXX behind it

Elliott Kalan

[53:03] when you do the search.

[53:04] Mo Dam.

[53:07] And I think the,

[53:08] more it was just like

[53:09] a thing that they've done

[53:10] a lot with the Marvel movies,

[53:11] which, you know,

[53:12] is fine,

[53:13] but that where they take

[53:14] a character that I think

[53:14] there's more opportunity with

[53:16] and they kind of use them

[53:16] as a joke character.

[53:18] And part of it is also that like,

[53:20] I just didn't love the way

[53:21] that the head stretching effect looked.

[53:24] It just looked so silly to me,

[53:25] you know,

[53:26] which is okay

[53:26] if it's a comedy character,

[53:27] I guess.

[53:28] I kind of like this one.

Dan McCoy

[53:30] Yeah,

[53:30] she's,

[53:31] yeah,

[53:32] she's got something.

[53:33] Mo Dam?

Elliott Kalan

[53:33] Oh,

[53:34] don't even try.

[53:34] You're not ready for her.

[53:35] She'll destroy you.

[53:35] You can't handle it.

Dan McCoy

[53:37] I think it is a comedy effect

[53:39] and thus I don't mind it.

[53:41] Like,

[53:41] he was supposed to look

[53:42] He's a comedy character.

[53:43] It looked so much like

Elliott Kalan

[53:44] it was just his head

[53:45] on a screen

[53:45] rather than like,

[53:47] rather than a three-dimensional

[53:48] giant face.

Stuart Wellington

[53:49] It was kind of like

[53:49] when I went to see

[53:51] the Jean-Paul Gaultier exhibit

[53:53] at the Brooklyn Museum

[53:54] and they displayed

[53:56] all the clothes on mannequins

[53:57] that had blank faces

[53:58] and then they projected

[53:59] video footage

[54:01] of models' faces

[54:02] onto that blank canvas.

[54:04] Yeah.

[54:04] That's kind of

[54:05] what it looked like.

Elliott Kalan

[54:05] That's what it looks like.

[54:06] Yeah,

[54:06] it's like a haunted mansion

[54:07] type thing

[54:08] where you're projecting

[54:09] a face on a head.

[54:10] That's a great way

[54:11] to describe it.

[54:12] And MODOK,

[54:13] he explains how

[54:14] he became MODOK

[54:15] and that Kang found him

[54:17] and turned him into MODOK

[54:18] and now he's the ultimate weapon.

[54:19] But he's still kind of a joke.

[54:21] Nobody takes him seriously.

[54:23] And it turns out

[54:24] he's the one who pulled them in.

[54:25] He got Cassie's signal

[54:26] and pulled them

[54:27] into the quantiverse.

[54:28] How he turned

[54:29] like a probe

[54:31] that emits a signal

[54:32] into like a portal

[54:33] that sucks things in,

[54:35] science.

[54:35] It's comic science.

[54:36] You don't have to worry about it.

[54:37] Who cares?

Stuart Wellington

[54:37] He's a floating head

[54:38] with two little legs

[54:39] that shoots stuff.

[54:40] Like, it's okay.

Elliott Kalan

[54:41] That has like a laser buzz saw

[54:42] that comes out of him.

[54:43] It's okay.

[54:45] And anyway,

[54:46] and meanwhile,

[54:46] Janet still will not tell her family

[54:48] who the fucking villain

[54:49] of the movie is.

[54:49] Yeah, speaking of that,

Stuart Wellington

[54:50] let me check the clock.

[54:52] Still haven't,

[54:53] he hasn't even shown up yet.

[54:55] No.

[54:55] And it's an hour

[54:56] into this podcast.

Elliott Kalan

[54:58] Okay, and so,

[54:58] and so,

[54:59] and an hour into the movie

[55:00] or more.

[55:00] And so now we finally

[55:01] get the flashback.

[55:02] She talks about meeting Kang.

[55:04] He was stranded in the multiverse.

[55:05] They became roommates

[55:06] and best buddies

[55:07] and they fix his,

[55:08] his time ship

[55:09] that can travel

[55:10] through the multiverse.

[55:11] And when the ship is fixed,

[55:13] because it runs

[55:14] on mental energy

[55:15] when she touches it,

[55:16] she sees his past psychically,

[55:17] which again,

[55:18] comic book science,

[55:19] who cares?

[55:19] It's fine.

[55:20] Don't worry about it.

[55:21] And she learns

[55:22] that Kang was a conqueror

[55:23] and that he was deliberately

[55:24] exiled to the quantumverse,

[55:26] although she doesn't know

[55:26] by who or why.

[55:27] And so,

[55:28] instead of letting him

[55:29] take the ship home,

[55:30] she destroys the energy core

[55:31] with her pin particles

[55:32] by making it enormous,

[55:34] trapping them both

[55:35] in the quantum realm.

[55:36] Why she never thought

[55:37] of using those particles

[55:37] to make herself super big

[55:39] and maybe get out

[55:39] of the quantum zone that way,

[55:42] It just,

[55:42] it never seems to occur

[55:43] to anybody.

[55:44] And Kang,

[55:44] but now Kang

[55:45] has his suit again.

[55:46] I guess while they were

[55:47] building his ship,

[55:48] he also gave himself

[55:49] a new suit,

[55:49] a set of armor

[55:50] he found it in the closet.

[55:51] He couldn't get it before.

[55:52] And now he's got a...

Stuart Wellington

[55:53] It looks like Kang's suit

[55:55] from the comics.

[55:56] Oh, for sure.

Elliott Kalan

[55:57] I mean,

[55:57] it looks,

[55:57] the suit there,

[55:58] I thought the design

[55:59] they worked with this

[56:00] looks great.

[56:01] It looks really good.

[56:02] It looks like the comics.

[56:03] He still has that kind

[56:04] purple clown face that I think

[56:06] is both chilling

[56:08] and also hilarious.

[56:08] Like a Harlequin jester,

[56:10] yeah.

[56:10] Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[56:11] It's one of those times

[56:12] where you're like,

[56:13] Jack Kirby,

[56:13] I don't know what you were

[56:14] thinking with this design,

[56:15] but I'm all over it.

[56:16] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[56:17] I want to say,

[56:17] I found the performance

[56:19] of Kang to be

[56:20] more intriguing

[56:21] and sort of like,

[56:24] even though we don't know,

[56:26] you know,

[56:26] we don't know in quotes,

[56:27] he's bad at that point,

[56:30] quietly menacing

[56:31] when he was

[56:33] playing nice

[56:34] and thoughtful

[56:34] than later on

[56:36] when he just becomes

[56:37] kind of a guy

[56:37] who like walks around

[56:38] saying hushed whispers

[56:39] of dramatic things.

Elliott Kalan

[56:41] Yeah,

[56:41] it feels like

[56:42] he's building

[56:43] to be more of a

[56:44] real character

[56:45] than he is.

[56:46] And it becomes

[56:47] kind of one note

[56:48] after a while.

[56:48] I felt that way too.

[56:49] When he was playing

[56:50] a mental game,

[56:51] it was interesting to me,

[56:52] but then when he's just

[56:53] a guy who walks around

[56:54] going,

[56:54] tell me again

[56:56] how many

[56:58] Avengers

[56:59] have I killed?

[57:02] I still kind of liked it.

[57:04] I just got bored of it

[57:05] after a while.

Stuart Wellington

[57:06] I liked it more than

[57:07] when he was

[57:09] in Loki.

[57:11] I felt like

[57:11] there was something

[57:12] off about it.

Elliott Kalan

[57:14] He was a little bit

[57:15] more manic in Loki,

[57:16] like he's jumping on desks

[57:17] and things like that.

[57:18] I missed a little bit

[57:20] of that because here

[57:20] his two modes

[57:21] are either hushed quiet

[57:22] or just screaming

[57:23] while he shoots lasers

[57:24] at people.

[57:25] And there's kind of

[57:26] nothing in between.

[57:27] But anyway,

[57:27] Kang,

[57:28] he takes over

[57:28] the Quantumverse,

[57:29] Janet fought him

[57:30] until she got rescued

[57:31] and brought home.

[57:32] And now

[57:33] the Van Dynes,

[57:34] they vow to save

[57:35] the others

[57:35] but keep Kang

[57:36] trapped in the Quantumverse

[57:37] because he's a danger

[57:38] to the multiverse.

[57:39] And Kang introduced himself

[57:40] to Ant-Man and Cassie

[57:41] and he's like,

[57:42] Ant-Man,

[57:42] go get the energy core

[57:43] for me

[57:44] because an army

[57:44] of Kangs is coming.

[57:46] I don't actually,

[57:46] I don't know if he says

[57:47] who's coming,

[57:47] but he says

[57:48] something bad is coming

[57:49] and you need me

[57:50] for that.

[57:51] And Scott's like,

[57:52] no.

[57:52] So Kang threatens Cassie

[57:53] and so Scott,

[57:55] to save his daughter,

[57:56] he jumps into the core holder,

[57:59] that big thing that got big

[58:00] to get the core for Kang.

[58:02] He's got to get the Kang core.

[58:03] They're like,

[58:04] if you want to save Cassie,

[58:05] get the Kang core.

[58:06] And he's like,

[58:06] core Kang?

[58:08] No,

[58:08] the Kang core for Kang.

[58:09] The core Kang for core.

[58:10] You're the Kang core keeper.

[58:12] You're now the Kang core

[58:14] catcher keeper.

Stuart Wellington

[58:16] Now,

[58:17] Kang's like a super genius,

[58:18] right?

[58:19] And he's like an inventor

[58:20] and everything.

[58:21] Like Wild E. Coyote.

[58:22] Yeah,

[58:22] why didn't he just fix

Elliott Kalan

[58:24] this shit himself?

[58:26] Because,

[58:26] Stuart,

[58:27] then it wouldn't have a reason

[58:28] for it to be an Ant-Man movie,

[58:30] would it?

[58:30] Oh,

[58:30] okay.

[58:31] Because this villain

[58:32] and this hero

[58:33] do not really match each other

[58:35] because one,

[58:36] as we've said,

[58:36] is a low stakes,

[58:38] shrinks or gets bigger

[58:39] small scale guy

[58:40] and the other is a

[58:41] time-traveling conqueror

[58:43] with god-like technology

[58:44] and otherwise

[58:45] there's no reason for them

[58:46] to even know that they exist,

[58:47] each other.

[58:48] It annoyed me so much

[58:49] when he goes,

[58:49] he's like,

[58:50] which Avenger are you?

[58:51] I forget you all mixed up

[58:52] because I've killed you

[58:53] so many times.

[58:53] Are you the one with the hammer?

[58:54] And then later calls him Ant-Man

[58:56] dude,

[58:56] were you just pretending

[58:57] that you didn't recognize him?

[58:59] That is not cool.

[59:00] Yeah,

[59:00] I mean,

[59:00] he was trying to,

[59:01] yeah,

[59:01] he was fucking with him.

[59:02] That is,

[59:02] that's a,

[59:03] that's a dorky move

[59:04] to be,

[59:04] oh,

[59:04] which one are you again?

[59:05] The one,

[59:06] are you the one

[59:06] with the shield?

[59:07] You can tell I'm a shrinking guy.

[59:08] You know who I am.

[59:09] You're a genius,

[59:10] right?

[59:10] Anyway,

[59:11] so he jumps in.

[59:13] Uh-oh.

[59:13] He starts splitting

[59:14] into a million people.

[59:15] Turns out he's in

[59:15] a probability storm.

[59:17] Here's a cool idea

[59:17] they don't do too much with.

[59:18] It's a Rick and Morty bit.

[59:20] He splits up

[59:21] into a million different Ant-Men

[59:23] and one Scott Lang

[59:24] who is dressed

[59:25] as if he still worked

[59:26] at the ice cream store

[59:26] that he got fired from.

[59:28] And it's like,

[59:29] to be,

[59:29] there was an episode

[59:30] of Duckman years ago

[59:31] where he breaks

[59:31] the time-space continuum

[59:32] and he's,

[59:33] every move he makes,

[59:35] I'll be watching him

[59:36] because it was a great show.

[59:36] But every move he makes,

[59:38] he's being confronted

[59:39] by the possible result

[59:41] of that.

[59:41] Like he goes into one room

[59:42] and he finds out

[59:43] he's going to be eaten

[59:43] by a lion.

[59:44] So eventually.

[59:45] So he goes into another room

[59:46] and he finds out

[59:46] something bad there.

[59:47] And I felt like

[59:47] that episode did

[59:48] such a better job

[59:49] of like showing

[59:50] multiple variations

[59:51] of a person's future

[59:52] than this one

[59:53] where there,

[59:53] it's like in every universe

[59:55] you are Ant-Man

[59:55] except for one

[59:56] where you work

[59:56] at the ice cream place

[59:57] and that's it.

[59:58] In the infinite variations

[59:59] of the multiverse.

[1:00:00] The same way that

[1:00:01] in Doctor Strange

[1:00:02] they're like,

[1:00:02] in the multiverse

[1:00:03] there are infinite variations.

[1:00:04] Like in this world,

[1:00:06] red means go

[1:00:07] and green means stop.

[1:00:08] Ooh,

[1:00:09] devilishly different.

[1:00:10] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:11] That would fuck you up.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:12] Well, I also.

[1:00:13] It would.

[1:00:13] You'd get used to it eventually.

Dan McCoy

[1:00:15] Look,

[1:00:15] far be it for me

[1:00:16] to be like

[1:00:17] a cinema sense science cop.

[1:00:19] But also,

[1:00:20] the problem I had with this

[1:00:22] and again,

[1:00:23] I realize it's mostly

[1:00:24] just here to provide

[1:00:25] a cool visual.

[1:00:26] Yeah,

[1:00:26] it looks cool

[1:00:27] to have lots of Ant-Man.

[1:00:28] Yeah.

[1:00:29] But like,

[1:00:30] if each of them

[1:00:31] represents

[1:00:31] what a possible Scott,

[1:00:34] then I don't understand

[1:00:35] how they're all able

[1:00:37] to work together.

[1:00:39] Like,

[1:00:40] if they're all just like

[1:00:40] possible futures,

[1:00:42] I don't understand

[1:00:44] how they all work together

[1:00:45] to raise him up.

[1:00:46] Because.

[1:00:47] Like,

Dan McCoy

[1:00:47] that doesn't seem

[1:00:47] to make sense to me.

[1:00:48] Well,

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:49] I mean,

[1:00:49] they all become,

[1:00:50] they're all possible

[1:00:50] physical beings,

[1:00:52] I guess,

[1:00:52] you know,

[1:00:53] in this probability storm.

[1:00:54] I guess,

[1:00:54] that's true.

[1:00:55] But that's true.

[1:00:56] They all,

[1:00:56] because in order to save Cassie,

[1:00:58] they help the true Scott,

[1:00:59] Scott Prime,

[1:01:00] to get up to the core.

[1:01:02] And Janet,

[1:01:04] Hope arrives

[1:01:04] and saves him

[1:01:06] when he's about to fall.

[1:01:07] The Cancore?

[1:01:09] The Canc,

[1:01:09] when he,

[1:01:09] when he grabs the Cancore.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:10] I have a bunch of Cancore sores.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:12] Yeah,

[1:01:13] Cancore sores.

[1:01:13] Yeah,

[1:01:14] yeah.

[1:01:14] He grabs the Cancore.

[1:01:15] Get it checked out.

[1:01:16] Yeah,

[1:01:16] yeah,

[1:01:17] yeah.

[1:01:18] They're very painful.

[1:01:19] And do not,

[1:01:20] look,

[1:01:20] just don't get salt in it.

[1:01:21] Okay?

[1:01:22] Very painful.

[1:01:24] And,

[1:01:24] Janet starts briefly

[1:01:26] turning into alternate Janets.

[1:01:27] And then,

[1:01:28] I guess through the power

[1:01:28] of sheer will,

[1:01:29] she just doesn't allow

[1:01:31] that to happen.

[1:01:32] And they take it back to Kang

[1:01:34] and Kang takes it

[1:01:34] and it beats up everybody.

[1:01:36] And he decides

[1:01:36] to take Janet with him.

[1:01:38] And that's when

[1:01:38] MODOK attacks Hank

[1:01:40] because there has to be,

[1:01:41] every character

[1:01:41] has to fight

[1:01:42] every other character

[1:01:43] in different combinations.

[1:01:44] And,

[1:01:44] Kang explains the origin

[1:01:47] to Janet

[1:01:47] that we already know

[1:01:48] if we watch the Loki show.

[1:01:50] It's like,

[1:01:50] again,

[1:01:51] there's,

[1:01:51] there are all these Kangs

[1:01:52] and when they travel

[1:01:53] they create multiple

[1:01:54] universes

[1:01:54] and they fight each other

[1:01:55] and it makes a big civil war

[1:01:56] throughout space and time.

[1:01:58] And so,

[1:01:58] he's trying to avoid that.

[1:01:59] And Scott and Hope

[1:02:01] wake up to find that

[1:02:02] Hank has a bunch of

[1:02:04] ant farm ants

[1:02:04] that,

[1:02:05] were they sucked in

[1:02:06] at the beginning of the movie

[1:02:07] or was that another time?

Dan McCoy

[1:02:08] No,

[1:02:08] they were sucked in with,

[1:02:09] we saw them

[1:02:10] at part of the

[1:02:11] initial accident.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:13] And the ants

[1:02:13] have had all this time

[1:02:14] in the quantum verse

[1:02:15] and they've developed

[1:02:16] super technology.

[1:02:17] They've evolved amazingly.

[1:02:18] And am I going to say

[1:02:19] this is a ripoff

[1:02:20] of the book City

[1:02:21] by Clifford Simak?

[1:02:22] Yes,

[1:02:22] it very much is

[1:02:23] because in that one also

[1:02:24] ants develop

[1:02:25] into a super advanced

[1:02:26] technological civilization.

[1:02:28] Yeah,

[1:02:28] but do they,

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:29] do they wrestle

[1:02:29] and eat up

[1:02:30] Kang?

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:32] No,

[1:02:32] they don't.

[1:02:33] Instead,

[1:02:33] their entire culture

[1:02:34] is about commemorating

[1:02:35] and getting revenge

[1:02:36] for the time

[1:02:37] that a man

[1:02:37] kicked over their anthill.

[1:02:41] And it's what

[1:02:42] causes the dogs

[1:02:44] of the world

[1:02:44] to leave

[1:02:45] and find their own

[1:02:46] new world

[1:02:46] because it's being

[1:02:46] overrun by ants.

[1:02:47] Anyway,

[1:02:49] Cassie frees

[1:02:50] the warrior woman

[1:02:50] whose name I've already

[1:02:51] forgotten from jail

[1:02:52] and they team up

[1:02:53] and Kang starts

[1:02:54] addressing his troops

[1:02:55] via hologram

[1:02:55] but Cassie interrupts

[1:02:57] the feed

[1:02:57] and gives a rousing

[1:02:58] rebellion speech

[1:02:59] which rouses

[1:03:00] all the alien weirdos

[1:03:02] to start fighting

[1:03:02] and we see that

[1:03:03] in the limitless

[1:03:04] quantum verse

[1:03:05] there's like

[1:03:06] 60 people.

[1:03:08] Like there's like

[1:03:08] 60 dudes

[1:03:09] and then there's like

[1:03:10] 200 troops

[1:03:11] like it's not

[1:03:11] it's a small

[1:03:12] small scale world.

[1:03:13] No pun intended.

[1:03:15] And MODOK shows up

[1:03:16] and he's fighting

[1:03:17] and he's about

[1:03:17] to kill Cassie

[1:03:18] when Scott arrives

[1:03:19] as very giant man

[1:03:20] and calls out Kang

[1:03:22] and Kang sends a fleet

[1:03:23] of little spaceships

[1:03:24] after him

[1:03:24] and the rebel forces

[1:03:25] come in

[1:03:25] battle, battle, battle.

Stuart Wellington

[1:03:27] Giant man

[1:03:27] in the quantum realm

[1:03:29] still pretty small.

[1:03:30] Still microscopic man.

[1:03:31] Yeah, it's all relative.

[1:03:32] Well, you know,

[1:03:33] yeah, that's a thing.

[1:03:33] Wait, so Dan,

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:34] so Dan,

[1:03:35] but he's still strong.

[1:03:36] And Dan,

[1:03:36] you're the arbiter of this.

[1:03:37] Yeah, what level of strength

[1:03:38] does he have at this point?

[1:03:39] Because he's giant for them

[1:03:40] but he's still microscopic

[1:03:41] for us.

[1:03:42] And you've appointed yourself

[1:03:43] judge, jury,

[1:03:44] and science executioner.

[1:03:45] I would say he's

Dan McCoy

[1:03:46] extra strong

[1:03:47] because he's just

[1:03:48] so compact, man,

[1:03:49] at this point.

[1:03:50] Those particles

[1:03:51] are tight.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:52] Yeah, he is tight.

[1:03:53] He really,

[1:03:53] he was just poured

[1:03:54] into that little costume.

[1:03:56] Yeah.

[1:03:57] And one of the aliens

[1:03:58] literally yells,

[1:03:58] revolution,

[1:03:59] as they're running,

[1:04:00] which I found dorky.

[1:04:02] Yeah.

[1:04:03] And I'm not sure

[1:04:03] if you're supposed

[1:04:04] to find it dorky or not

[1:04:05] because I think it's

[1:04:05] a dorky alien character

[1:04:06] who says of it.

[1:04:07] Anyway, battle, battle, battle,

[1:04:08] aliens versus troops,

[1:04:09] Cassie versus MODOK,

[1:04:10] Ant-Man versus Kang's

[1:04:11] time ships,

[1:04:12] and the force field thingy

[1:04:13] around the Ant-Kang's

[1:04:14] ship or whatever.

[1:04:15] And Cassie gets giant

[1:04:17] and beats up MODOK

[1:04:18] and tells him to stop

[1:04:19] being a dick

[1:04:20] and says,

[1:04:20] there's always this,

[1:04:21] you can always stop

[1:04:22] being a dick.

[1:04:22] And he's like,

[1:04:23] but I'm such a dick.

[1:04:23] She goes,

[1:04:24] you can always stop.

[1:04:24] And that's his arc

[1:04:25] is he decides

[1:04:27] to stop being a dick.

Dan McCoy

[1:04:28] And he dies as an Avenger.

[1:04:29] I think, guys,

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:31] I don't know.

[1:04:31] He hasn't died yet.

[1:04:32] He hasn't died yet.

Dan McCoy

[1:04:33] I don't know, man.

[1:04:34] 2023,

[1:04:35] I think a pretty good motto

[1:04:37] is,

[1:04:38] remember,

[1:04:39] you can always stop

[1:04:41] being a dick.

[1:04:42] That's true.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:42] It's not the moral

[1:04:43] that we want,

[1:04:44] but it's the moral

[1:04:45] that we need.

[1:04:45] Or not even the moral

[1:04:46] we deserve.

[1:04:47] Yeah, but the moral we need.

[1:04:48] And Kang tries

[1:04:49] to launch his ship,

[1:04:50] but Wasp and the Ant-Man

[1:04:51] stop it,

[1:04:52] and Cassie and Scott

[1:04:52] are reunited,

[1:04:53] and Kang zaps people

[1:04:54] with lasers,

[1:04:55] and the rebels run away.

[1:04:56] The rousing speech

[1:04:56] has worn off.

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:57] His lasers are fucking nuts, man.

[1:04:59] It like,

[1:05:00] he dusts the people

[1:05:02] he shoots with them

[1:05:02] like they're fucking

[1:05:03] vampires in a Blade movie.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:05] Yeah, yeah.

[1:05:05] They're purple dissolver

[1:05:06] type things.

[1:05:07] Our heroes are fighting

[1:05:08] with Kang.

[1:05:08] The super ant army

[1:05:09] shows up,

[1:05:10] and they overrun

[1:05:10] Kang's troops.

[1:05:12] And Darren attacks Kang,

[1:05:14] and he, I guess,

[1:05:16] breaks Kang's force field

[1:05:18] or something.

[1:05:18] He gets through it,

[1:05:19] and Kang is swept away

[1:05:20] by ants.

[1:05:20] And MODOK dies,

[1:05:21] saying,

[1:05:22] at least I died in Avenger.

[1:05:23] And they're all like,

[1:05:24] yeah, yeah,

[1:05:25] I guess you were, yeah.

[1:05:26] Because even someone dying

[1:05:27] right in front of them,

[1:05:29] someone they know,

[1:05:30] cannot stop the quips.

[1:05:31] Gotta keep making jokes.

[1:05:32] And I was like,

[1:05:33] and I know it's like

[1:05:34] a silly movie.

[1:05:34] It's an Ant-Man movie.

[1:05:35] He's MODOK, whatever.

[1:05:36] But the fact that

[1:05:37] they're literally like,

[1:05:37] well, he's dying

[1:05:38] in front of you.

[1:05:39] Has Cassie ever seen

[1:05:39] a man die right in front of her?

[1:05:41] And yet they're all still like,

[1:05:42] uh, yeah, sure, man.

[1:05:44] Like, they're still

[1:05:44] not taking it seriously.

[1:05:45] It's fucked up, honestly.

Dan McCoy

[1:05:46] It's super screwed up.

[1:05:49] I loved, though,

[1:05:51] Paul Rudd,

[1:05:52] after MODOK dies,

[1:05:54] his delivery of like,

[1:05:56] a lot of stuff happened today.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:58] It's a very funny,

[1:05:59] it's a very funny delivery

[1:06:00] of a joke

[1:06:01] that instantly removes me

[1:06:02] from any emotional connection

[1:06:04] to any character

[1:06:05] in the movie.

[1:06:05] Because it's, again,

[1:06:06] even if this was

[1:06:07] a villain of yours,

[1:06:08] it's someone you knew,

[1:06:09] someone you've known for years,

[1:06:10] and they're dead

[1:06:11] right in front of you.

Dan McCoy

[1:06:12] I don't know.

[1:06:12] I can't take this version

[1:06:14] of MODOK seriously enough to...

[1:06:15] I don't know.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:16] It just...

[1:06:16] Now, I got a question, guys.

[1:06:17] But they're asking you

[1:06:18] as the audience

[1:06:18] to care whether he becomes,

[1:06:20] feels like he's had

[1:06:21] a redemption arc, you know?

Stuart Wellington

[1:06:23] When, with, uh,

[1:06:24] with Kang and his lasers,

[1:06:27] can you just shoot anyone

[1:06:28] and turn him into dust immediately?

[1:06:30] Because...

[1:06:30] Probably.

[1:06:31] I mean, he could have killed

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:32] Ant-Man instantly.

[1:06:32] He could have done that super easy

Stuart Wellington

[1:06:33] multiple times.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:34] Well, that's, it's like,

[1:06:35] so superhero rules function

[1:06:38] kind of like ninja rules,

[1:06:39] where, as everyone

[1:06:40] knows, ninja math

[1:06:41] is that if one ninja

[1:06:42] is fighting you,

[1:06:43] they are incredibly unstoppable.

[1:06:45] They're a killing machine.

[1:06:46] But if, for each additional ninja

[1:06:48] that fights you,

[1:06:48] each ninja becomes

[1:06:49] proportionally less powerful

[1:06:50] and weaker.

[1:06:51] And if you're attacked

[1:06:52] by 20 ninjas,

[1:06:53] you can just knock them over

[1:06:54] with a fly swatter.

[1:06:55] They disappear to dust.

[1:06:56] Back to the hand-held

[1:06:57] where the beast lies

[1:06:59] to eat, to devour their souls.

[1:07:01] But, so with this,

[1:07:02] I think it's similar

[1:07:02] where it's like,

[1:07:03] the superhero characters

[1:07:04] have, like,

[1:07:05] mega plot protection.

[1:07:06] And so, all those other people,

[1:07:08] they can easily get zapped,

[1:07:09] but the superheroes are like,

[1:07:11] they're protected

[1:07:11] by their superhero

[1:07:13] main character-ness.

[1:07:14] Okay, cool.

[1:07:15] By the lasers.

[1:07:16] He's like,

[1:07:16] oh, if only I brought

[1:07:17] the lasers that kill

[1:07:17] main characters,

[1:07:19] not just the lasers

[1:07:19] that kill extras.

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:20] You have to choose.

[1:07:21] Yeah, you gotta change

[1:07:22] the setting.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:23] Now, this,

[1:07:24] the casualness

[1:07:25] towards death here

[1:07:26] did not bother me

[1:07:27] as much as in

[1:07:28] Guardians 3

[1:07:29] when Star-Lord goes,

[1:07:30] okay, Groot,

[1:07:31] kill them all.

[1:07:32] And they're just

[1:07:32] murdering everyone

[1:07:33] who works for

[1:07:35] a high evolutionary.

[1:07:36] And at the end,

[1:07:36] when they have the chance

[1:07:37] to kill the high evolutionary,

[1:07:38] they're like,

[1:07:38] no, because we're heroes.

[1:07:40] Because we're Guardians

[1:07:41] of the Galaxy.

[1:07:41] Let's leave them on

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:41] an exploding spaceship.

[1:07:42] Oh, so it's okay

[1:07:43] to kill labor

[1:07:44] but not management?

[1:07:45] Thanks, Guardians.

[1:07:46] So if I take a paycheck,

[1:07:47] because I have to maybe,

[1:07:48] and work for someone

[1:07:49] who is not the best,

[1:07:50] it's okay to murder me.

[1:07:52] But the guy at the top

[1:07:52] making the decisions,

[1:07:53] he's untouchable.

[1:07:54] That's okay.

[1:07:55] He's special.

[1:07:56] That's a harsh rebuke

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:57] for James Gunn's writing,

[1:07:58] a man who has not

[1:07:59] written anything

[1:08:00] in support of the WGA

[1:08:01] so far.

Elliott Kalan

[1:08:02] That I don't know about.

[1:08:03] Is that true?

[1:08:05] I think so, yeah.

[1:08:06] Interesting.

[1:08:06] Well, okay.

[1:08:08] Looks like James

[1:08:09] has got a gun

[1:08:10] to quote Aerosmith

[1:08:11] in a way that doesn't

[1:08:11] make sense here.

[1:08:13] So they keep Kang

[1:08:15] from going through

[1:08:15] his portal

[1:08:16] and Kang,

[1:08:17] but everyone else

[1:08:18] goes home.

[1:08:19] So Janet opens

[1:08:19] a portal home,

[1:08:20] everyone gets there

[1:08:21] except for Scott

[1:08:22] and Kang stops him

[1:08:23] from leaving

[1:08:24] and then Scott

[1:08:24] fights Kang

[1:08:25] to keep him

[1:08:25] from leaving the portal

[1:08:26] and Kang really

[1:08:27] beats the shit

[1:08:27] out of Ant-Man.

[1:08:28] He's just like

[1:08:29] destroying him

[1:08:30] as frankly

[1:08:31] with their power sets,

[1:08:32] he should.

[1:08:33] Although Ant-Man

[1:08:34] at this point decides

[1:08:35] Ant-Man doesn't use

[1:08:36] his powers at all

[1:08:37] in this fight, right?

[1:08:38] Like, has he run

[1:08:39] out of particles maybe?

[1:08:39] I don't know.

Stuart Wellington

[1:08:40] Yeah, I don't know.

[1:08:41] I don't know, but

Elliott Kalan

[1:08:42] it's like Kang

[1:08:44] was holding back

[1:08:44] before Ant-Man's

[1:08:45] holding back now

[1:08:46] until Wasp returns

[1:08:48] and blasts Kang

[1:08:49] into a machine

[1:08:50] that then turns

[1:08:51] into a different portal.

[1:08:52] It's a way of,

[1:08:53] I guess,

[1:08:53] not killing him

[1:08:54] instead of having him

[1:08:55] making it so he can

[1:08:56] come back later.

[1:08:57] Every machine

[1:08:58] can turn into a portal

[1:08:59] in this movie.

[1:09:00] If it's a machine,

[1:09:01] watch out when you put

[1:09:02] your toast in your toaster,

[1:09:03] your bread in your,

[1:09:03] don't put toast

[1:09:04] in your toaster

[1:09:04] to begin with.

[1:09:05] You put bread in.

[1:09:05] If it's already toasted.

[1:09:06] I mean,

[1:09:07] let's go to toast it

Dan McCoy

[1:09:07] some more.

[1:09:07] What about super toast?

[1:09:09] What I call super toast?

Stuart Wellington

[1:09:12] In a way,

[1:09:13] a toaster is a portal

[1:09:14] to toast.

[1:09:15] That's a good point.

[1:09:17] In a way,

Dan McCoy

[1:09:17] it's a time machine

[1:09:18] because you put bread in

[1:09:20] because you put bread in

Dan McCoy

[1:09:20] and then in a minute

[1:09:21] that bread has been

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:23] transported into toast.

[1:09:25] No,

[1:09:25] but it's been transformed

[1:09:28] into toast.

[1:09:28] It's aged rapidly.

[1:09:31] So you're saying

[1:09:32] that if you leave bread out,

[1:09:33] it will naturally turn

[1:09:34] into toast

[1:09:34] over a long period of time.

[1:09:36] But the toaster

[1:09:37] speeds up that process.

[1:09:38] Oh, I see.

Stuart Wellington

[1:09:39] What walks on

[1:09:40] four legs at dawn

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:42] and toast legs

[1:09:44] at night.

[1:09:45] Using the power

[1:09:46] of pimpernacle particles.

[1:09:49] It does that.

[1:09:50] So anyway,

[1:09:51] don't touch any machines.

[1:09:52] Don't touch your phone.

[1:09:53] It's a portal.

[1:09:54] Don't touch your car.

[1:09:54] It's a portal.

[1:09:55] Don't touch your CPAP machine.

[1:09:57] You'll always get sucked

[1:09:58] through a portal

[1:09:58] while you're sleeping.

[1:10:00] But now Scott

[1:10:00] and Hope

[1:10:02] are trapped

[1:10:03] in the quantum verse

[1:10:03] for about three seconds

[1:10:05] until moments later

[1:10:06] Cassie opens a new portal

[1:10:07] and just lets them through.

[1:10:09] And now

[1:10:10] we're back where we started.

[1:10:12] San Francisco.

[1:10:13] Scott has a similar monologue

[1:10:14] to what he started.

[1:10:15] Everything's great.

[1:10:16] Except he starts worrying.

[1:10:17] Wasn't Kang warning them

[1:10:19] about some kind of

[1:10:19] big evil thing?

[1:10:20] Was it the right thing

[1:10:21] to get rid of him?

[1:10:22] Maybe he did the wrong thing.

[1:10:23] I don't know.

[1:10:24] And he's left in this

[1:10:25] state of what

[1:10:26] I guess John Keats

[1:10:27] would call

[1:10:28] negative capability.

[1:10:29] This ambiguous

[1:10:31] uncertainty

[1:10:32] they have to live in

[1:10:34] until we get to

[1:10:35] the mid-credits scene.

[1:10:37] Unless Daniel

[1:10:37] said this before

[1:10:38] we get to the mid-credits scene.

Dan McCoy

[1:10:38] This is what I said

[1:10:40] I think when we talked

[1:10:41] about Ant-Man

[1:10:41] Ant-Man

[1:10:42] Quantum Man

[1:10:42] before when you

[1:10:43] hadn't seen it.

[1:10:43] I like the sort of

[1:10:44] comic disquiet

[1:10:45] that this ends on

[1:10:46] because there are

[1:10:48] so many of these

[1:10:48] superhero movies

[1:10:50] where people rush in

[1:10:52] to a world

[1:10:53] that they're unfamiliar with.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:55] Fools rush in

[1:10:56] like Matthew Perry

[1:10:57] and Selma Hayek.

Dan McCoy

[1:10:58] Yeah.

[1:10:58] They vanquish someone

[1:11:00] and maybe they need

[1:11:01] to be vanquished

[1:11:02] but the details

[1:11:03] of the bigger picture

[1:11:05] are unknown

[1:11:05] and I like that

[1:11:07] this movie

[1:11:08] has him issuing

[1:11:09] a warning

[1:11:09] and then has Scott

[1:11:11] at the end

[1:11:11] being like

[1:11:11] what was all that

[1:11:13] about?

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:14] I don't know.

[1:11:16] What did I do here?

[1:11:18] I would like it more

[1:11:18] if it wasn't so clearly

[1:11:20] a setup

[1:11:20] for another movie.

[1:11:22] If it was really like

[1:11:23] oh now he has to live

[1:11:24] it's a funny way

[1:11:25] that he has to live

[1:11:26] wondering like

[1:11:27] did I do the right thing there?

[1:11:28] But we know

[1:11:28] there's going to be

[1:11:29] another movie

[1:11:30] because mid-credits scene

[1:11:31] we see three other Kangs.

[1:11:34] One of them

[1:11:34] I didn't recognize

[1:11:35] but the other two are

[1:11:36] of course

[1:11:36] Rama Tut

[1:11:37] the Egyptian version of Kang

[1:11:38] really the first version

[1:11:39] of Kang

[1:11:40] to appear in the comics

[1:11:40] and my second favorite Kang

[1:11:43] Immortus

[1:11:44] the old geezer

[1:11:45] at the end of time

[1:11:46] who hates younger Kang

[1:11:48] and just sits around

[1:11:50] you know

[1:11:51] doing whatever

[1:11:52] the Time Lords tell him

[1:11:53] and the voice

[1:11:55] that Jonathan Majors

[1:11:56] chooses for Immortus

[1:11:57] is hilarious.

[1:11:58] It is such a cartoonish

[1:11:59] old man voice

[1:12:00] I felt like.

[1:12:01] Yeah it's pretty great.

[1:12:03] It sounds so goofy

[1:12:04] like someone being

[1:12:05] an old man

[1:12:06] in a high school play

[1:12:07] or something like that

[1:12:08] I'm

[1:12:09] oh we have to do something

[1:12:11] oh these heroes

[1:12:12] anyway

[1:12:13] and they've assembled

[1:12:14] everyone

[1:12:15] and all the Kangs show up

[1:12:16] and as we mentioned

[1:12:17] earlier in the episode

[1:12:18] they're just shouting

[1:12:18] nonstop

[1:12:20] they're not even saying words

[1:12:21] they're just shouting

[1:12:22] making noise

[1:12:22] hollering.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:23] It's good to be together

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:24] it's like a family reunion.

[1:12:26] Yeah now we know.

[1:12:27] Imagine you were in a

[1:12:29] I'm guessing

[1:12:30] some kind of weird

[1:12:31] like what is that

[1:12:32] what is that

[1:12:33] like a big

[1:12:34] like they're at

[1:12:35] like a venue

[1:12:35] like they're about to see a show

[1:12:37] or something.

[1:12:37] Yeah it's like an amphitheater.

[1:12:38] It does look like

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:40] they're at Wrestlemania

[1:12:41] and they're all just cheering

[1:12:42] because something wrestling

[1:12:43] is going to happen.

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:44] But imagine you're at

[1:12:45] Wrestlemania

[1:12:46] and everybody in the audience

[1:12:47] is you.

[1:12:48] That would be crazy.

[1:12:49] I would be shouting too.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:51] And all the wrestlers.

[1:12:52] I mean everyone that shows up

[1:12:53] is posing the way

[1:12:54] you would be shouting

[1:12:55] the way you would

[1:12:55] when you go in the ring.

[1:12:55] With excitement or fear.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:56] I would be shouting with fear

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:57] in that super.

[1:12:57] That's going to

[1:12:58] the thing that I like

[1:12:59] is that it would

[1:13:00] leave it up to the audience

[1:13:01] to decide.

Dan McCoy

[1:13:02] Yeah.

[1:13:02] Okay.

[1:13:03] There you go.

[1:13:03] Well I was asking about you

[1:13:04] personally but sure

[1:13:05] we'll leave it up to the audience

[1:13:06] to decide audience.

Dan McCoy

[1:13:06] You can decide

[1:13:09] whether Stuart would be shouting

[1:13:10] with excitement or fear.

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:12] Yeah.

[1:13:12] Leave it in that uncertainty Stu.

[1:13:14] And so I hope that they bring in

[1:13:17] when they do the Kang stuff

[1:13:18] I hope they do bring in the fact

[1:13:20] that the Kangs don't like each other.

[1:13:21] That in the comics

[1:13:22] Ramatut and Kang and Immortus

[1:13:24] are the same person

[1:13:25] at different times in their life

[1:13:26] and none of them like each other.

[1:13:28] And they're always trying

[1:13:29] to stop the other one.

[1:13:30] Even Kang hates

[1:13:31] that he's going to become Immortus.

[1:13:32] He thinks Immortus

[1:13:33] is this kind of like

[1:13:34] impotent boring old man

[1:13:36] who has given up conquering.

[1:13:37] And I just love the idea

[1:13:38] that he's like

[1:13:39] ugh.

[1:13:40] I hate that I'm going to become you.

[1:13:41] I don't like this.

[1:13:42] I'm going to do whatever I can

[1:13:43] to kill you

[1:13:44] so I don't have to be you.

[1:13:45] And I hope that they bring in

[1:13:48] some aspect of that

[1:13:49] that the Kangs don't like each other.

[1:13:50] But then

[1:13:50] we have an end credit scene.

[1:13:52] Guys

[1:13:52] are you ready to see

[1:13:53] the true face of Kang?

[1:13:55] Uh huh.

[1:13:56] Yeah.

[1:13:56] Because we're in like

[1:13:58] the 19th century

[1:13:59] or the early 20th century.

[1:14:00] It's like a vaudeville type stage.

[1:14:02] And Victor Timely,

[1:14:03] Jonathan Majors

[1:14:04] dressed up in old timey clothes,

[1:14:06] is giving a talk about time.

[1:14:08] And we see in the audience

[1:14:09] who's there

[1:14:10] but Loki

[1:14:11] and Agent Mobius

[1:14:12] from the Loki TV show.

[1:14:14] That's right.

[1:14:14] Owen Wilson.

[1:14:15] Yay.

[1:14:16] And Owen Wilson's like

[1:14:17] wow, I thought you said

[1:14:18] he was like some fake scary guy.

[1:14:19] And Loki's like

[1:14:20] he is.

[1:14:21] And then the text comes up

[1:14:22] Kang will return.

[1:14:24] And it's like

[1:14:25] no shit dude.

[1:14:25] You spent the whole

[1:14:27] end of the movie

[1:14:27] building up Kang.

[1:14:28] Like of course he's gonna return.

[1:14:29] But as if he's the hero

[1:14:30] of the movie now.

[1:14:31] As if the movie is already like

[1:14:32] we're bored of Ant-Man.

[1:14:33] You notice that all these

[1:14:34] Ant-Man characters

[1:14:35] weren't really the stars of the show?

[1:14:36] It's because we're tired of them.

[1:14:37] We're all about Kang now.

[1:14:38] Kang, Kang, Kang, Kang, Kang.

[1:14:39] Kang, Kang, da-da-da-da- Kang, Kang.

[1:14:41] That's all they care about

[1:14:42] is Kang now.

[1:14:43] And I want to answer

[1:14:44] that question I have for you guys is

[1:14:45] with all this buildup

[1:14:47] Kang has now been built up

[1:14:48] in a television show

[1:14:49] and this movie.

[1:14:51] Are you excited

[1:14:51] about more Kang?

[1:14:54] Well.

[1:14:55] I think this is a

Stuart Wellington

[1:14:56] complicated question.

[1:14:58] I think Dan Tsai spoke volumes.

[1:15:00] I think it's a complicated question.

[1:15:02] I feel like there's

[1:15:03] a little bit too much set up.

[1:15:05] But maybe not.

[1:15:07] But I am confused to see.

[1:15:11] I wonder what

[1:15:12] Marvel's going to do.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:14] Well, even if you set aside

[1:15:15] the Jonathan Majors aspect of it.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:16] Let's explicitly set that aside

[1:15:20] because I do think

[1:15:20] that complicates it.

[1:15:21] Let's say that he has

[1:15:22] no personal private life

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:24] legal problems

[1:15:24] and he is just

[1:15:25] the same promising young actor

[1:15:27] that everyone loved

[1:15:28] in other stuff

[1:15:29] that he did

[1:15:30] in Lovecraft Country

[1:15:31] or Defy Bloods

[1:15:32] or whatever.

[1:15:32] I'm somewhat excited.

[1:15:34] And especially,

[1:15:34] wait,

[1:15:35] especially The Last Black

[1:15:36] and San Francisco

[1:15:36] where he's great in that.

[1:15:38] You know,

[1:15:39] keeping in mind

[1:15:39] I don't know how he is

[1:15:40] as a person.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:41] I'm somewhat excited.

[1:15:42] I'm not really familiar

[1:15:44] with Kang

[1:15:45] as a comics character.

[1:15:49] You know,

[1:15:49] part of me is like,

[1:15:50] oh,

[1:15:50] do we need at this point

[1:15:51] another big villain

[1:15:53] that everything is working towards?

[1:15:55] Could they do it as well again?

[1:15:58] At the same time,

[1:15:59] I do like the idea of like,

[1:16:02] yes,

[1:16:02] but this villain

[1:16:03] is several versions

[1:16:05] of the same character.

[1:16:08] So.

Stuart Wellington

[1:16:09] Yeah, sure.

[1:16:10] I think he's interesting

[1:16:11] I think this is a weird

[1:16:12] Ant-Man movie

[1:16:13] because it is basically

[1:16:14] a Kang movie already.

[1:16:17] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:17] It does feel like

[1:16:18] they wanted to make a,

[1:16:20] that Ant-Man is being

[1:16:21] kind of,

[1:16:22] what's the word in wrestling

[1:16:24] for when they throw someone

[1:16:25] under the bus

[1:16:26] to launch another wrestler?

Stuart Wellington

[1:16:29] I don't.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:30] I don't know.

[1:16:31] There's a term for it.

[1:16:32] Listeners write in.

[1:16:33] They're not totally doing that

[1:16:34] with this because Ant-Man

[1:16:35] doesn't get defeated by Kang.

[1:16:37] But it feels a little bit like

Stuart Wellington

[1:16:38] it's setting up Kang

[1:16:40] and it feels also like

[1:16:41] they're setting up

[1:16:42] Cassie as the next generation

[1:16:44] so that the,

[1:16:45] when the old folks retire.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:47] Yeah.

[1:16:47] I think,

[1:16:48] I think there's a lot of that

[1:16:49] and sort of transitional

[1:16:50] Ant-Man movie,

[1:16:50] I guess.

[1:16:51] But I have to say,

[1:16:51] as someone who was excited

[1:16:53] that when they first said Kang

[1:16:54] was going to be a bad guy

[1:16:55] in the movies,

[1:16:56] because I like Kang a lot,

[1:16:57] I think he has a different

[1:16:57] way of doing things

[1:16:59] than the others.

[1:17:00] Which is,

[1:17:01] which is that like,

[1:17:02] he's got,

[1:17:03] he's got a different attitude.

[1:17:04] He's got his own stuff.

[1:17:06] But sunglasses.

[1:17:08] He is a time travel based villain.

[1:17:10] And so,

[1:17:10] he can travel through time,

[1:17:12] he can go back into the past

[1:17:13] and undo things

[1:17:14] that he's made mistakes.

[1:17:15] He can,

[1:17:16] I feel like,

[1:17:18] I'm not that excited

[1:17:19] about this,

[1:17:20] the multiverse aspect of him though.

[1:17:21] Like,

[1:17:22] they've done so much

[1:17:22] multiverse stuff though.

[1:17:23] And I really wish they'd do something

[1:17:25] that really took advantage

[1:17:26] of the fact that like,

[1:17:27] he's someone who can go back

[1:17:28] and if you defeat him,

[1:17:30] he can just go back

[1:17:30] and try it again

[1:17:32] at an earlier time

[1:17:32] or at a different time.

[1:17:33] And I hope they take advantage of that,

[1:17:35] but I'm worried

[1:17:35] that it's just going to be like

[1:17:36] an army of CGI Kangs

[1:17:38] crawling all over the Avengers.

[1:17:40] You know what?

Dan McCoy

[1:17:40] I don't know if they can do that though now

[1:17:42] because they have,

[1:17:43] they have constructed

[1:17:45] a multiverse rather than,

[1:17:46] like a branching universe

[1:17:47] rather than like,

[1:17:48] one where you can correct

[1:17:50] your past mistakes.

Elliott Kalan

[1:17:51] Like,

[1:17:51] I'm worried that it's going to be

[1:17:53] just like another movie

[1:17:53] full of characters

[1:17:54] meeting alternate versions

[1:17:55] of themselves,

[1:17:56] which we've seen a lot of

[1:17:58] by now.

[1:17:59] And we're also seeing

[1:18:00] in the DC movies

[1:18:01] that the DC movies

[1:18:02] have also now

[1:18:03] embraced a multiverse aspect.

[1:18:05] Kang's in the DC movies?

[1:18:07] Kang's in the,

[1:18:07] that's the surprise

[1:18:08] is Kang is in the,

[1:18:09] is Michael Keaton

[1:18:09] is actually playing Kang

[1:18:10] pretending to be Batman.

[1:18:12] Oh,

[1:18:12] that's wild.

[1:18:13] He's changed his name

[1:18:13] to Michael Kang

[1:18:14] for the movie.

[1:18:14] You want to get Kang?

Dan McCoy

[1:18:15] Let's get Kang,

[1:18:16] he says.

Stuart Wellington

[1:18:19] Where does he get

[1:18:19] those wonderful Kangs?

[1:18:23] Bird Kang.

[1:18:26] I'm Kang.

[1:18:28] Anyway,

[1:18:29] so let's do

[1:18:30] Fat Kang.

Dan McCoy

[1:18:31] This town needs a Kang.

[1:18:34] Judgments.

[1:18:35] Is this a good,

[1:18:36] bad movie?

[1:18:37] I've seen The Exorcist

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:38] 400 times

[1:18:39] and it keeps getting Kang-ier

[1:18:40] every time I see it.

Dan McCoy

[1:18:41] This Kang means it

[1:18:42] out of this slide.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:44] Yeah,

[1:18:44] but it's Michael Keaton.

[1:18:45] I'm just doing Michael Keaton.

[1:18:46] Oh,

[1:18:46] okay.

[1:18:47] Mr. Kang.

[1:18:48] Come on,

[1:18:49] Kang Ho.

[1:18:49] He was in Gun Ho,

[1:18:50] right?

Dan McCoy

[1:18:51] Yeah.

[1:18:51] Kang-a-plicity.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:53] Yeah,

[1:18:53] sure,

[1:18:53] Kang shift.

Dan McCoy

[1:18:54] Let's,

[1:18:55] let's say whether

[1:18:56] this is a good,

[1:18:56] bad movie,

[1:18:57] a bad,

[1:18:57] bad movie,

[1:18:57] a movie we kind of like.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:58] I mean,

[1:18:58] Dan,

[1:18:59] you joke about Kang-a-plicity.

[1:19:00] That is basically

[1:19:00] what they're doing.

[1:19:01] That's what it is.

[1:19:01] That is what they're doing.

[1:19:03] So,

[1:19:03] Michael Keaton should be playing Kang.

[1:19:05] He did it already.

[1:19:05] Oh,

Dan McCoy

[1:19:06] can you imagine?

[1:19:08] Let's,

[1:19:09] final judgments.

[1:19:11] I'll just quickly say,

[1:19:13] yes,

[1:19:13] for me,

[1:19:15] the Marvel films

[1:19:16] have a somewhat low ceiling

[1:19:18] with a couple of exceptions

[1:19:20] and a high floor.

[1:19:22] That second Thor movie?

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:23] You really like that

[1:19:24] Thor Dark World movie,

[1:19:25] right?

[1:19:26] I mean,

[1:19:27] I like it okay.

[1:19:28] Dan said,

[1:19:29] the odd Thors,

[1:19:31] not a fan.

[1:19:31] The even-numbered Thors,

[1:19:33] he really likes.

[1:19:34] So,

[1:19:34] Dan loves Thor 2

[1:19:35] and Thor 4.

[1:19:35] Thor 1,

[1:19:36] Thor 3,

[1:19:36] not a fan.

[1:19:37] I would take

Stuart Wellington

[1:19:38] Thor 2

[1:19:39] over Thor 4.

[1:19:44] Maybe it's because,

[1:19:45] I don't know,

[1:19:45] maybe I like the Dark Elves.

[1:19:47] Anyway.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:47] Even though Thor rhymes with 4?

Dan McCoy

[1:19:49] True.

[1:19:51] In keeping with that,

[1:19:52] I would say that

[1:19:53] this is still a movie

[1:19:54] I kind of liked.

[1:19:56] It's probably within

[1:19:58] my least favorite

[1:20:00] five or so MCU movies,

[1:20:02] and yet,

[1:20:04] I still find enough in it.

[1:20:06] I don't know whether

[1:20:07] it's Stockholm Syndrome.

[1:20:08] I enjoy it.

[1:20:11] You know,

[1:20:12] like it's a functional

[1:20:13] movie a lot of the time still.

[1:20:16] Raves Dan McCoy.

Elliott Kalan

[1:20:18] It's a functional movie

[1:20:19] a lot of the time.

Dan McCoy

[1:20:20] Even while it like,

[1:20:21] you know,

[1:20:22] is not the movie

[1:20:23] I would wish it was.

[1:20:24] What do you say,

[1:20:25] Stuart?

Stuart Wellington

[1:20:26] Yeah,

[1:20:26] I mean,

[1:20:27] I think it's,

[1:20:28] I think this is clearly

[1:20:28] one of the weaker entries

[1:20:29] in the,

[1:20:30] the,

[1:20:31] the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

[1:20:33] It feels,

[1:20:34] uh,

[1:20:35] like a mismatch

[1:20:36] for the characters.

[1:20:37] It feels like

[1:20:38] it doesn't particularly

[1:20:39] do a service

[1:20:40] to any of the characters,

[1:20:42] uh,

[1:20:43] except for Kang.

[1:20:45] Um,

[1:20:46] and maybe not even him.

[1:20:47] Um,

[1:20:48] I mean,

[1:20:48] there's still,

[1:20:48] obviously,

[1:20:49] there's some still

[1:20:50] stuff that's fun.

[1:20:51] Uh,

[1:20:51] I like the laser face guy.

[1:20:54] Uh,

[1:20:54] he's like,

[1:20:55] that's a cool design.

[1:20:56] That's a cool design.

[1:20:57] Yeah.

[1:20:58] Um,

[1:20:58] yeah,

[1:20:59] it's not,

[1:20:59] and like,

[1:21:01] I mean,

[1:21:01] if you put movie,

[1:21:02] like,

[1:21:03] they managed to get some,

[1:21:04] like,

[1:21:05] movie stars in the movie

[1:21:06] and I like watching

[1:21:07] Michael Douglas

[1:21:07] and Michelle Pfeiffer

[1:21:08] do stuff.

[1:21:09] Uh,

[1:21:10] if,

Elliott Kalan

[1:21:10] if that's the bar

[1:21:11] that you're setting,

[1:21:12] whether the richest company

[1:21:13] in Hollywood

[1:21:13] can manage to get movie stars

[1:21:15] in their movies.

Stuart Wellington

[1:21:16] But it,

[1:21:16] it highlights

[1:21:17] one of the things

[1:21:18] that I think Marvel

[1:21:19] does,

[1:21:20] has done well

[1:21:21] and what their,

[1:21:23] what their brand

[1:21:23] is built on,

[1:21:24] which is getting

[1:21:25] movie stars

[1:21:26] to play their characters.

[1:21:28] which is to

[1:21:28] insidiously co-opt

Dan McCoy

[1:21:30] all of Hollywood's

[1:21:32] brightest stars.

[1:21:34] Well,

Stuart Wellington

[1:21:34] that's the interesting thing

[1:21:35] is that they,

[1:21:36] I feel like there's,

[1:21:37] there's a movement

[1:21:38] within Marvel

[1:21:39] to try and bring in

[1:21:41] new talent

[1:21:42] that are not established

[1:21:43] movie stars,

[1:21:44] possibly ones that are

[1:21:45] willing to take

[1:21:46] a not as strong contract.

[1:21:48] Um,

[1:21:48] and,

[1:21:49] it's,

[1:21:50] it doesn't work like,

[1:21:52] like Robert Downey Jr.,

[1:21:54] his like,

[1:21:55] Iron Man,

[1:21:56] his Tony Stark performance

[1:21:57] is what

[1:21:57] built the Marvel movies.

Dan McCoy

[1:21:59] Yeah.

[1:21:59] Although that was like

[1:22:00] a big comeback

[1:22:01] for him too.

[1:22:02] I mean,

[1:22:02] he was already

[1:22:02] sort of on the,

[1:22:03] No,

[1:22:03] but,

Elliott Kalan

[1:22:04] but I see what Stuart's

[1:22:04] saying.

[1:22:05] They were playing off

[1:22:06] of an established actor,

[1:22:07] which is,

[1:22:08] which is,

[1:22:09] I mean,

[1:22:09] Alfred Hitchcock

[1:22:10] did the same thing.

[1:22:10] You cast an actor

[1:22:11] because they bring

[1:22:12] with them all the

[1:22:13] associations of their

[1:22:14] previous work

[1:22:15] and who,

[1:22:15] who,

[1:22:16] what the audience

[1:22:16] thinks of them.

[1:22:17] I do think that

[1:22:18] at this point,

[1:22:19] the,

[1:22:19] they're leaning on it

[1:22:20] a little too heavily.

[1:22:21] Like,

[1:22:21] you look at that

[1:22:21] Krylar character,

[1:22:22] if that wasn't

[1:22:23] Bill Murray

[1:22:23] playing that character,

[1:22:24] there's no character there.

[1:22:25] Like,

[1:22:26] and I know he's a minor

[1:22:26] character in it,

[1:22:27] but,

[1:22:27] but like,

[1:22:28] if it's not Michael

[1:22:28] Douglas playing Hank Pym,

[1:22:30] Hank Pym does not

[1:22:30] have a personality

[1:22:31] and is not,

[1:22:32] not a character,

[1:22:32] you know,

[1:22:33] and if it's not

[1:22:33] Michelle Pfeiffer

[1:22:34] playing Janet Van Dyne,

[1:22:35] she doesn't have a,

[1:22:35] she doesn't,

[1:22:35] there's no character.

[1:22:36] And so,

[1:22:37] I think they're leaning

[1:22:37] on it a little too heavily,

[1:22:38] especially at a time

[1:22:39] when Marvel should be

[1:22:40] feeling like they have

[1:22:41] a brand and a style

[1:22:43] that's strong enough

[1:22:44] that they can start

[1:22:45] moving away,

[1:22:46] that they no longer

[1:22:47] need celebrity support.

[1:22:48] But I think the opposite

[1:22:49] is true.

[1:22:49] I think they're feeling

[1:22:50] less sure of themselves

[1:22:52] because there's so many

[1:22:52] movies into this thing

[1:22:53] and they've invested

[1:22:54] so much money into it.

[1:22:55] And at this point,

[1:22:57] it kind of feels like

[1:22:58] creatively they are not

[1:22:59] giving themselves

[1:23:00] the refreshing time

[1:23:01] necessary between films

[1:23:03] to create new things.

[1:23:04] And so,

[1:23:05] maybe they do feel like

[1:23:06] they need to rely on

[1:23:07] big names super hard.

[1:23:08] I mean,

[1:23:09] like,

[1:23:09] when your character,

[1:23:10] like,

[1:23:10] the big name in the movie

[1:23:11] should be Ant-Man

[1:23:13] and not necessarily

[1:23:14] that,

[1:23:15] the person playing Ant-Man.

[1:23:18] But the same way

[1:23:19] that, like,

[1:23:20] the James Bond movies

[1:23:21] are movies that create stars

[1:23:22] rather than,

[1:23:23] rather than using stars

[1:23:25] for the most part.

[1:23:27] That being said,

[1:23:28] I'm going to apply,

[1:23:29] I'm going to say

[1:23:30] this movie is the opposite

[1:23:31] of the movie Solo to me.

[1:23:33] Okay.

[1:23:33] Where,

[1:23:33] I think Solo is a movie

[1:23:35] that would have been

[1:23:35] a better movie

[1:23:36] if it was not a Star Wars movie.

[1:23:37] I think people would have

[1:23:38] liked it more

[1:23:39] and it would have come off

[1:23:39] as more of a fun space heist

[1:23:41] if it didn't have

[1:23:42] all the Star Wars baggage.

[1:23:43] This was the opposite for me.

[1:23:44] I think without the Marvel

[1:23:45] imprint and names,

[1:23:47] it doesn't,

[1:23:48] it's like not even really there.

[1:23:49] Like,

[1:23:49] there's just not a lot

[1:23:50] of movie there.

[1:23:51] And so,

[1:23:51] this is one where,

[1:23:54] I wish they had given it

[1:23:55] more of its own self

[1:23:56] to stand up

[1:23:57] under its own strength.

[1:23:57] More backbone,

[1:23:58] more muscle,

[1:23:59] more character,

[1:24:00] more stuff that where

[1:24:01] you could say like,

[1:24:02] oh yeah,

[1:24:03] well this movie,

[1:24:04] it doesn't have to exist

[1:24:05] wholly on its own.

[1:24:06] It's still chapter 30 something

[1:24:07] of an infinite chapter storyline.

[1:24:10] But I wish there was more

[1:24:11] to it that was like,

[1:24:12] that felt like it was

[1:24:13] trying to make this movie

[1:24:14] cool and neat

[1:24:16] and like,

[1:24:17] interesting as opposed to just-

Stuart Wellington

[1:24:18] This movie is the event,

Elliott Kalan

[1:24:19] not the thing

[1:24:20] it's setting up.

[1:24:21] Yeah.

[1:24:21] Exactly.

[1:24:21] It feels like this movie

[1:24:22] could easily have been

[1:24:23] an episode of

[1:24:24] the Ant-Man TV show,

[1:24:26] but it's been stretched out

[1:24:27] for a super long length.

[1:24:27] Yeah.

[1:24:28] You know.

[1:24:29] So you loved it.

[1:24:30] I call it Ant-Ant.

[1:24:31] On the scale of,

[1:24:32] on the scale of ants

[1:24:33] to not ants,

[1:24:33] I give it ants.

S4

[1:24:34] My fellow graduates,

[1:24:40] for 500 episodes,

[1:24:42] my podcast,

[1:24:43] The JV Club

[1:24:44] with Janet Varney

[1:24:44] has gathered story

[1:24:46] after story

[1:24:46] of all the scandalous things

[1:24:48] we've done

[1:24:48] throughout our childhoods.

[1:24:50] Wait, what's happening?

[1:24:50] Stories like how

[1:24:51] Jamila Jamil

[1:24:52] survived a horrific house party

[1:24:54] and she was on crutches.

[1:24:56] This is great.

[1:24:56] Or how Hal Lublin

[1:24:58] learned a Shakespearean monologue

[1:24:59] in his pajamas.

S5

[1:25:01] This is not the speech

[1:25:02] we approve.

S4

[1:25:02] Without your love

[1:25:03] and life tragedies,

[1:25:04] there would be no podcast.

[1:25:07] In fact,

[1:25:07] I'll have an exclusive look

[1:25:08] at how Maggie Lawson's mom

[1:25:09] confronted her

[1:25:10] after a sneaky basement

[1:25:11] meetup with her crush.

[1:25:12] Spill the tea, JV.

[1:25:13] Security.

[1:25:15] Listen to The JV Club

[1:25:16] with Janet Varney

[1:25:17] Thursdays on Maximum Fun.

[1:25:18] Class of...

[1:25:19] Forever.

S5

[1:25:24] Parenting.

[1:25:25] It's hard,

[1:25:25] but don't worry.

[1:25:26] You're not alone.

[1:25:28] Belly up to the low bar

[1:25:29] with one bad mother

[1:25:30] and let us remind you

[1:25:31] that fine is good enough.

[1:25:33] They want to climb

[1:25:34] on different things.

[1:25:35] And how am I supposed

[1:25:37] to keep them both

[1:25:38] from dying?

[1:25:40] There is a right way

[1:25:41] to do this.

[1:25:42] And if I can figure out

[1:25:43] that right way,

[1:25:44] I'm going to be a good parent.

[1:25:46] So that is not a thing.

[1:25:47] So join us each week

[1:25:48] and let us tell you

[1:25:49] that you are doing

[1:25:50] a good job.

[1:25:52] You can listen to

[1:25:53] One Bad Mother

[1:25:53] on Maximum Fun

[1:25:55] or wherever you get

[1:25:56] your podcasts.

Dan McCoy

[1:25:58] I would like to thank

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Stuart Wellington

[1:27:25] Now,

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[1:27:26] is also sponsored

[1:27:27] by Smalls,

[1:27:28] and by Smalls,

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[1:28:21] That's what you want.

[1:28:22] When they stick their mouth

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[1:28:28] So why don't you

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Dan McCoy

[1:29:05] And you know what?

[1:29:06] We don't mention

[1:29:08] our Jumbotrons a lot.

[1:29:10] I just noticed

[1:29:10] we didn't have

[1:29:11] any Jumbotrons this week,

[1:29:12] and I'm like,

[1:29:12] maybe that's because

[1:29:13] we don't mention them.

[1:29:15] People don't know

[1:29:15] how to do it.

[1:29:16] Yeah.

[1:29:16] Go over to

[1:29:17] maximumfund.org

[1:29:18] forward slash Jumbotron

[1:29:20] if you want

[1:29:22] to pay a little bit

[1:29:23] that's less than

[1:29:24] like our normal

[1:29:25] commercial rates

[1:29:26] to get either

[1:29:26] a business message

[1:29:28] or a personal message

[1:29:30] on the show.

[1:29:31] If you have

[1:29:33] a customer base

[1:29:35] or a friend

[1:29:36] that seems like

[1:29:37] they love the flop house,

[1:29:40] why not get a Jumbotron?

[1:29:43] And Elliot,

[1:29:43] you look like

[1:29:43] you had something to say.

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:44] Hey,

[1:29:45] I mentioned this last week

[1:29:46] and I'm going to mention it again.

[1:29:47] I have books

[1:29:48] that are available to buy

[1:29:49] and I also have bills

[1:29:51] that I need to pay.

[1:29:52] So if you know

[1:29:53] a child in your life,

[1:29:54] why not get them

[1:29:54] one or both

[1:29:55] of my picture books,

[1:29:56] Horse Meets Dog

[1:29:57] and Sharko and Hippo,

[1:29:58] they're available

[1:29:59] on bookstore shelves,

[1:30:00] or if you know a,

[1:30:02] not a child,

[1:30:02] but a horror-loving grown-up

[1:30:03] or maybe a really cool teenager,

[1:30:05] why not pick them up

[1:30:06] my comic book,

[1:30:07] Maniac of New York?

[1:30:08] There's two collected volumes,

[1:30:09] Maniac of New York,

[1:30:10] The Death Train,

[1:30:11] and Maniac of New York,

[1:30:12] The Bronx is Burning,

[1:30:13] and currently out

[1:30:14] in comic stores

[1:30:15] are issues of the third series,

[1:30:17] Maniac of New York,

[1:30:18] don't call it a comeback.

[1:30:19] That series is not finished yet.

[1:30:21] You can still pick up

[1:30:21] the back issues

[1:30:22] and finish it

[1:30:23] as it happens.

[1:30:24] The third issue

[1:30:25] will come out

[1:30:25] eventually.

[1:30:27] I don't know when exactly,

[1:30:28] but it will come out.

[1:30:29] And if you want to support

[1:30:30] the writer's strike

[1:30:31] because as this episode

[1:30:32] is being recorded,

[1:30:32] we are still on strike.

[1:30:33] Who knows?

[1:30:34] Maybe we won't be

[1:30:34] by the time it's over.

[1:30:36] By the time you get this,

[1:30:37] maybe we'll be gone,

[1:30:38] which will be great.

[1:30:39] Make a donation,

[1:30:39] please,

[1:30:40] if you would like,

[1:30:40] to the Entertainment Community Fund

[1:30:42] at entertainmentcommunity.org,

[1:30:44] a resource for anyone

[1:30:45] in the entertainment community

[1:30:46] who finds himself

[1:30:47] in financial need

[1:30:48] during this time

[1:30:49] of striking

[1:30:51] or striking related

[1:30:52] unemployment.

[1:30:53] Thank you

[1:30:53] for your contribution

[1:30:55] should you make one.

Dan McCoy

[1:30:57] Let's move on

[1:30:58] to letters from listeners.

[1:31:00] If you're a listener,

[1:31:01] maybe this is one

[1:31:01] of your letters.

[1:31:02] I mean,

[1:31:03] most likely

[1:31:03] if you wrote it.

[1:31:05] Yeah,

[1:31:06] that would be a clue.

[1:31:07] I listened to the episodes,

Elliott Kalan

[1:31:09] but I didn't write

[1:31:10] any letters.

[1:31:10] Maybe it was one

[1:31:11] of my letters.

[1:31:12] It's possible.

Dan McCoy

[1:31:13] There's,

[1:31:14] I would say,

[1:31:15] a close to 0% chance

[1:31:17] this is one

[1:31:17] of your letters.

Stuart Wellington

[1:31:18] Okay.

[1:31:19] Do you interfugue states

Dan McCoy

[1:31:21] often?

[1:31:21] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:31:22] I enter fugue states

[1:31:23] enough

[1:31:24] that it's conceivable

[1:31:25] that I sent us a letter.

[1:31:26] What do you think

Dan McCoy

[1:31:26] of the toccata

[1:31:27] and fugue

[1:31:28] in B minor?

Elliott Kalan

[1:31:30] I like it.

[1:31:31] It's like a toccata

[1:31:32] is a mixture of like

[1:31:33] tomato and cottage cheese

[1:31:34] and that's healthy,

[1:31:36] right?

Dan McCoy

[1:31:36] Yeah.

[1:31:37] Well,

[1:31:37] I mean,

[1:31:37] if the 70s

[1:31:38] taught us anything.

[1:31:40] Is that what,

[1:31:40] like,

[1:31:41] I feel like they're

Elliott Kalan

[1:31:41] cottage cheese.

[1:31:44] There's this great

[1:31:45] DC superheroes

[1:31:46] healthy cookbook

[1:31:47] from the late 70s,

[1:31:48] early 80s

[1:31:49] that have a copy of

[1:31:50] in every recipe

[1:31:50] as cottage cheese in it

[1:31:51] and they just slather it around

[1:31:53] as if it's the healthiest

[1:31:53] thing in the world.

Dan McCoy

[1:31:55] Miracle bomb.

[1:31:56] Okay,

[1:31:57] this is from

[1:31:57] Blake,

[1:31:58] last name withheld,

[1:31:59] who writes,

[1:32:00] hey peaches,

[1:32:01] so Jason Momoa

[1:32:02] and John Cena

[1:32:04] are apparently

[1:32:05] teaming up

[1:32:06] for an action comedy

[1:32:07] called Killer Vacation,

[1:32:09] but I have a better idea.

[1:32:11] Momoa and Cena

[1:32:12] in the inevitable remake

[1:32:14] of Tango and Cash.

[1:32:16] Thoughts?

[1:32:17] Would these two work

[1:32:18] as Russell and Stallone?

[1:32:20] Is it sacrilege

[1:32:21] to even suggest

[1:32:22] a Tango and Cash remake?

[1:32:24] Love you guys,

[1:32:25] Blake,

[1:32:25] last name withheld.

[1:32:26] I,

[1:32:26] you know,

[1:32:27] I'm not Jason Momoa

Stuart Wellington

[1:32:29] and John Cena

[1:32:29] or John C. Reilly?

Dan McCoy

[1:32:33] Well,

[1:32:34] let's start with

[1:32:34] the asked question,

[1:32:36] which is John Cena.

[1:32:37] Okay,

[1:32:37] okay.

[1:32:38] And then maybe

[1:32:38] if we have time,

[1:32:39] we can talk about it.

[1:32:39] I could totally see

Elliott Kalan

[1:32:40] John Cena

[1:32:41] in the Tango,

[1:32:41] Ray Tango role.

[1:32:43] He's the bespectacled

[1:32:43] suit wearing one

[1:32:44] and Jason Momoa

[1:32:45] as Cash.

[1:32:45] It would be pretty funny

Stuart Wellington

[1:32:47] to switch that up.

[1:32:47] Cash the wild man.

Elliott Kalan

[1:32:48] Yeah.

[1:32:49] This is,

[1:32:49] this reminds me

[1:32:50] of a funny story

[1:32:50] that I don't think

[1:32:51] I've told in the podcast yet,

[1:32:52] have I,

[1:32:52] where after I took my kids

[1:32:54] to see the Super Mario

[1:32:54] Brothers movie,

[1:32:55] which of course

[1:32:55] we went to an AMC theater,

[1:32:57] so they showed us

[1:32:57] every trailer

[1:32:58] for every movie

[1:32:58] that has been made

[1:32:59] or will ever be made

[1:33:00] beforehand.

[1:33:01] One of them was

[1:33:02] for Fast X

[1:33:03] or Fast 10.

[1:33:03] I don't know

[1:33:04] how it's pronounced.

[1:33:04] I don't care.

[1:33:05] And weeks later,

[1:33:07] my younger son,

[1:33:08] who is four and a half,

[1:33:09] he's in the car

[1:33:10] and he goes,

[1:33:10] remember the movie

[1:33:11] we saw the commercial

[1:33:13] for before Super Mario

[1:33:14] Brothers with the cars

[1:33:16] and I'm like,

[1:33:16] oh,

[1:33:17] the Fast and Furious movie?

[1:33:17] Yeah.

[1:33:18] He goes,

[1:33:18] who was the guy

[1:33:19] with the long hair

[1:33:21] and the sunglasses?

[1:33:22] The bad guy?

[1:33:23] And I was like,

[1:33:23] oh,

[1:33:24] his name's Jason Momoa

[1:33:25] and he goes,

[1:33:25] he's cool.

[1:33:28] And I just,

[1:33:28] I don't know how long

[1:33:29] that character

[1:33:30] has been living

[1:33:31] in my son's head

[1:33:32] with just him being like,

[1:33:32] that's a cool character.

Dan McCoy

[1:33:34] I saw the movie.

[1:33:35] He's pretty cool.

Elliott Kalan

[1:33:36] Not a surprise.

[1:33:38] Not a surprise.

Stuart Wellington

[1:33:40] Yeah.

[1:33:41] And he's the bad guy.

[1:33:42] He's the bad guy.

[1:33:43] By the end of the movie,

[1:33:44] he shows up with a cookout,

[1:33:45] right?

Dan McCoy

[1:33:46] One assumes that that's the,

[1:33:48] you know,

[1:33:48] if the series is coming to an end,

[1:33:50] then that's the last shot

[1:33:52] is him joining them

[1:33:53] and drinking a beer happily.

Elliott Kalan

[1:33:54] I met someone

[1:33:55] on the strike picket line

[1:33:56] whose theory is that

[1:33:57] this is the first

[1:33:58] of a time travel trilogy

[1:33:59] that eventually we'll see,

[1:34:02] we'll see Toretto from now

[1:34:05] going back in time

[1:34:06] to the first movie

[1:34:07] and he's like,

[1:34:08] he's like this,

[1:34:09] I think they're building up to it.

[1:34:10] I think the series

[1:34:11] can only get sillier.

[1:34:12] That's what they're building up to.

[1:34:13] So we'll find out

[1:34:14] if it's a time travel trilogy

[1:34:15] or not.

Stuart Wellington

[1:34:15] It would be amazing.

[1:34:16] It'd be amazing

[1:34:16] if a bad guy's like,

[1:34:17] I have to stop the family

[1:34:19] and has to go back in time

[1:34:20] to try and prevent

[1:34:21] Dominic Toretto

[1:34:22] from being born.

Elliott Kalan

[1:34:24] He's born in the backseat

[1:34:25] of a car, of course.

Dan McCoy

[1:34:26] Of course he was.

[1:34:28] Yeah.

[1:34:29] Well, I hope that answered

[1:34:30] your question about,

[1:34:32] oh, no, wait.

Elliott Kalan

[1:34:33] I'm going to say,

[1:34:33] as someone who was pitching

[1:34:34] a Tango and Cash animated series

[1:34:36] not too long ago,

[1:34:36] I'm fine with a remake

[1:34:37] of Tango and Cash.

[1:34:38] Let's do it.

[1:34:38] Let's make it happen.

[1:34:39] I think those guys

[1:34:40] would be fun in it.

[1:34:41] I just want the movie

[1:34:41] to be as silly

[1:34:42] as the original.

Dan McCoy

[1:34:43] Yeah.

[1:34:44] I mean, look,

[1:34:45] in general,

[1:34:46] I would prefer to see

[1:34:47] more original properties,

[1:34:48] but if remakes

[1:34:49] is where we're at,

[1:34:50] I think that would actually

[1:34:51] be pretty good casting

[1:34:52] for a Tango and Cash remake.

[1:34:53] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:34:54] Oh, this reminded me

[1:34:55] of something that I forgot

[1:34:55] to mention earlier.

[1:34:56] Sorry about this.

[1:34:57] When we were talking

[1:34:57] about how the Marvel movies,

[1:35:01] now they should lean

[1:35:02] on their characters more.

[1:35:03] They've introduced them

[1:35:04] to people.

[1:35:04] How the big victory

[1:35:05] with the Guardians of the Galaxy

[1:35:06] movie was,

[1:35:07] oh, we can make a movie

[1:35:08] that's a hit with characters

[1:35:09] that people are not familiar with.

[1:35:10] That's a huge achievement for us.

[1:35:12] And it was only years later

[1:35:13] that I realized,

[1:35:14] oh, but that's what

[1:35:14] most movies do.

[1:35:16] And they pull it off easily.

[1:35:18] Most movies don't expect

[1:35:20] the audience to walk in

[1:35:21] knowing the characters

[1:35:22] and their entire histories already.

[1:35:23] Yeah, yeah.

[1:35:24] You don't go in,

Stuart Wellington

[1:35:24] you're like,

[1:35:25] man, Lydia Tarr

[1:35:26] is such a good composer.

[1:35:27] I hope nothing bad

[1:35:28] comes out of her career.

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:29] I can't wait to see

[1:35:30] what Cate Blanchett's take

[1:35:31] on the famous character

[1:35:32] of Tarr is, you know?

Dan McCoy

[1:35:37] This other letter

[1:35:39] is from Sophie,

[1:35:40] last name withheld,

[1:35:41] who writes,

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:41] Sophie S. Choice,

[1:35:42] the S stands for Stephanie.

Dan McCoy

[1:35:44] Wow.

[1:35:45] Dear Floppers,

[1:35:46] while walking through

[1:35:47] a crowded doctor's office

[1:35:49] waiting room,

[1:35:49] your podcast decided

[1:35:51] to start playing

[1:35:51] in my pocket.

[1:35:53] I was able to turn it off

[1:35:54] quickly,

[1:35:54] but not before

[1:35:55] pulling it out

[1:35:56] and hearing Elliot

[1:35:57] say very,

[1:35:58] very clearly,

[1:35:59] masturbation.

[1:36:01] Thanks.

[1:36:02] Sophie,

[1:36:02] last name withheld.

[1:36:03] So there you go.

[1:36:05] Is there anything

[1:36:06] you want to say

[1:36:06] to Sophie, Elliot?

[1:36:07] Maybe apologies.

Elliott Kalan

[1:36:08] I don't know what one.

[1:36:11] It wasn't my fault

[1:36:12] and also,

[1:36:12] it's a natural thing

[1:36:14] that almost everybody does

[1:36:15] and if they're not doing it,

[1:36:16] they probably should.

[1:36:17] You're not doing it.

[1:36:18] Why not?

[1:36:19] It's free.

[1:36:19] Why not?

[1:36:20] It's great.

[1:36:21] It's free.

[1:36:22] That's the main thing

[1:36:23] is it's free.

[1:36:24] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:36:25] You know,

[1:36:25] in this world

[1:36:26] that's increasingly commodified,

[1:36:29] why don't you do something

[1:36:30] that's free?

[1:36:32] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:36:34] So here's my assignment

[1:36:36] for Flophouse listeners.

[1:36:37] I want you to find a time

[1:36:39] when you're alone

[1:36:39] or if this is something

[1:36:40] you do with a partner

[1:36:41] with your partner's consent,

[1:36:43] I want you to masturbate

[1:36:44] to a fantasy

[1:36:44] that is completely empty

[1:36:46] of corporate-owned IP characters.

[1:36:48] Wow.

[1:36:49] I don't want,

[1:36:50] See if it's possible.

[1:36:51] Just make it,

[1:36:51] just live in,

[1:36:52] live in a fantasy world

[1:36:55] that Disney doesn't have

[1:36:56] its mouse paws all over.

Stuart Wellington

[1:36:59] Oh man,

[1:37:00] let me think.

[1:37:01] Okay,

[1:37:01] can't do JoJo's Bizarre.

[1:37:03] Oh my God.

Elliott Kalan

[1:37:04] No,

[1:37:05] no.

[1:37:05] Dan,

[1:37:06] no Jessica Rabbit.

Stuart Wellington

[1:37:07] Oh.

[1:37:08] No Debbie

[1:37:09] from Adam's Family Values.

[1:37:13] I mean,

Dan McCoy

[1:37:13] here's the thing.

[1:37:14] No family guy characters

[1:37:16] for some reason.

Stuart Wellington

[1:37:18] Why,

[1:37:18] do I see so many ads

Dan McCoy

[1:37:20] of porn that,

[1:37:21] like of all the things

[1:37:22] I can.

Elliott Kalan

[1:37:22] This is outside of my realm now.

Dan McCoy

[1:37:24] Now you're talking about

[1:37:25] an industry-side mod ad.

[1:37:25] I can eroticize

[1:37:26] nearly anything.

[1:37:28] Yeah,

[1:37:28] yeah.

[1:37:29] But the family guy characters,

[1:37:31] the fact that there's

[1:37:31] so much pornography

[1:37:32] out there.

Elliott Kalan

[1:37:33] I mean,

[1:37:34] Dan,

[1:37:34] when you spend as much time

[1:37:35] as you do Googling

[1:37:36] Pep Boys gay threesome,

[1:37:38] I think that is,

[1:37:39] you're going to get

[1:37:39] that kind of stuff.

[1:37:41] Like I was thinking.

Dan McCoy

[1:37:42] That's how I got there?

Stuart Wellington

[1:37:43] I don't understand

[1:37:44] why nobody has invented

[1:37:45] a flashlight

[1:37:46] with the little,

[1:37:47] in like a Pringles can

[1:37:48] with the Pringles guy's

[1:37:49] face to use.

[1:37:50] That seems like,

[1:37:51] like that seems like

[1:37:53] it's printing money.

[1:37:53] So like you're having sex

Elliott Kalan

[1:37:54] with a Pringles can

[1:37:56] or with the Pringles guy?

[1:37:57] Yeah,

Dan McCoy

[1:37:57] and you can call it

[1:37:58] mustache ride.

Stuart Wellington

[1:37:59] Yeah,

[1:38:00] I mean,

[1:38:00] thank you.

[1:38:01] Yeah,

[1:38:01] perfect.

[1:38:01] We did this together.

[1:38:04] We're both to blame.

[1:38:05] Now Dan,

[1:38:06] yeah?

[1:38:08] I was just going to say

[1:38:08] the can is the body

[1:38:10] of the Fleshlight toy.

[1:38:12] Yes,

[1:38:12] and the top of it

[1:38:13] is the face

[1:38:14] of the Pringles guy.

Elliott Kalan

[1:38:16] I see.

[1:38:16] I misunderstood that.

[1:38:18] Stu,

[1:38:18] if you're fantasizing

[1:38:20] about Joan Cusack,

[1:38:21] I think that's okay.

[1:38:22] If you're fantasizing

[1:38:23] about her character,

[1:38:24] it's not okay.

Stuart Wellington

[1:38:25] That's the problem.

[1:38:26] Yeah.

[1:38:26] It's hard to separate it.

[1:38:28] There's something

[1:38:29] very special about Debbie

[1:38:30] because she murders people.

[1:38:32] Wait,

[1:38:33] in which movie?

[1:38:35] Adam's Family Values.

[1:38:36] Oh,

[1:38:36] okay.

Elliott Kalan

[1:38:36] The sexy Adam's Family movie.

[1:38:38] Dan,

[1:38:38] Adam's Family Values.

[1:38:40] Sure.

[1:38:41] I mean,

[1:38:41] there's always a low-level

[1:38:42] eroticism between

[1:38:43] Gomez and Morticia.

[1:38:44] Okay,

[1:38:45] let's move on to-

[1:38:47] And it's a healthy way

[1:38:48] to introduce-

[1:38:49] You're introducing kids

[1:38:50] to the idea that sex

[1:38:51] doesn't have to end

[1:38:51] with marriage,

[1:38:52] and I think that's

[1:38:52] a healthy message

[1:38:53] for all of us

[1:38:54] to remember,

[1:38:54] right?

[1:38:55] Yeah.

[1:38:55] Mm-hmm.

[1:38:57] Maybe the kids

[1:38:58] don't need to know about it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:39:00] I'm looking at Dan's letterbox.

[1:39:01] Is that Tork?

Dan McCoy

[1:39:03] Yeah,

[1:39:03] that's what I'm going

[1:39:03] to recommend,

[1:39:04] actually.

[1:39:04] Thank you for teeing me up.

[1:39:07] This is where we recommend

[1:39:08] movies that we actually liked.

[1:39:13] Tork is a movie

[1:39:14] that came out

[1:39:15] in the early 2000s.

[1:39:18] It was sort of

[1:39:20] meant loosely

[1:39:22] as actually like a

[1:39:24] Fast and the Furious parody,

[1:39:25] which is funny because

[1:39:26] it's almost indistinguishable

[1:39:29] from a present-day

[1:39:30] Fast and Furious movie,

[1:39:31] how ridiculous they've got.

[1:39:32] It's still wilder

[1:39:34] is the thing that I would say

[1:39:36] to recommend it to you.

[1:39:37] It still goes further

[1:39:38] than how far

[1:39:40] Fast movies have gone,

[1:39:42] but it's played

[1:39:43] basically like a straight

[1:39:45] action film

[1:39:46] with some jokes in it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:39:48] Yeah,

[1:39:49] I don't know that it's supposed

[1:39:49] to be a parody necessarily.

[1:39:51] I think they were doing,

[1:39:53] I think,

[1:39:53] their version,

[1:39:54] they were like,

[1:39:54] let's do it with bikes

[1:39:55] and we'll get zanier.

Dan McCoy

[1:39:58] I mean,

[1:39:58] it could be spin,

[1:40:01] but I have read stuff

[1:40:03] that suggests that

[1:40:04] to some degree

[1:40:05] it's intentionally

[1:40:05] like a takeoff,

[1:40:06] but it is also like,

[1:40:08] I mean,

[1:40:09] a takeoff,

[1:40:09] I guess,

[1:40:09] is closer than a parody

[1:40:11] because I think that

[1:40:12] you can be taking something off

[1:40:13] while still being

[1:40:14] basically a serious action movie

[1:40:15] in certain ways.

[1:40:17] And like,

[1:40:17] it really is

[1:40:18] tongue-in-cheek,

[1:40:20] let's say,

[1:40:20] but the tongue has,

[1:40:22] you know,

[1:40:22] shot through the cheek

[1:40:23] and embedded itself

[1:40:25] in a tree next to you.

[1:40:28] You know,

[1:40:29] it's just a movie

[1:40:29] that is a bunch of

[1:40:30] wild bike and car stunts

[1:40:34] that are strung together,

[1:40:36] you know,

[1:40:37] with a plot

[1:40:37] that if you actually

[1:40:38] like pay attention,

[1:40:39] they put a little more care

[1:40:41] into the structure of it

[1:40:42] than I think,

[1:40:43] there's so much

[1:40:44] meathead style on top of it

[1:40:45] that you don't realize like,

[1:40:46] oh,

[1:40:46] that's kind of cool

[1:40:47] that they like establish

[1:40:48] all these characters

[1:40:48] and you understand

[1:40:49] why they're bouncing

[1:40:50] off of each other

[1:40:50] the way they are.

[1:40:53] But it is just,

[1:40:55] you know,

[1:40:55] if you poured a bunch

[1:40:56] of pixie sticks

[1:40:57] into some code red,

[1:40:58] that's what that movie is.

[1:41:01] And I saw it

[1:41:02] at a weird Wednesday

[1:41:02] at the Alamo

[1:41:03] and the audience

[1:41:04] ate it up.

[1:41:05] It is a blast

[1:41:06] with a bunch of people.

[1:41:07] So it's Tork.

Stuart Wellington

[1:41:09] Okay.

[1:41:11] I'm going to recommend

[1:41:12] a movie that I watched

[1:41:15] for the first time recently

[1:41:16] with the passing

[1:41:18] of Tina Turner.

[1:41:20] I finally got around

[1:41:21] to watching

[1:41:21] What's Love Got to Do With It

[1:41:23] from 1993

[1:41:24] and it's a biopic

[1:41:27] focusing on,

[1:41:28] and a genre

[1:41:29] that I normally

[1:41:30] have no real fondness for.

[1:41:33] But the two central performances

[1:41:36] of Angela Bassett

[1:41:37] as Tina Turner

[1:41:38] and Lawrence Fishburne

[1:41:40] as Ike Turner

[1:41:41] are incredible.

[1:41:43] The two of them,

[1:41:44] like,

[1:41:44] it's like,

[1:41:45] Lawrence Fishburne

[1:41:46] is like an all-time villain.

[1:41:48] He is so fucking horrible.

[1:41:50] And yet,

[1:41:51] like,

[1:41:51] a very believable character.

[1:41:54] A very, like,

[1:41:54] it's a huge performance.

[1:41:57] And Angela Bassett's

[1:41:58] incredible as well.

[1:41:59] Not to mention the fact

[1:42:00] that she is the most

[1:42:02] insanely ripped person

[1:42:04] I've ever seen

[1:42:05] in a movie.

[1:42:06] Like,

[1:42:06] she is so jacked.

[1:42:07] It's incredible.

[1:42:09] Yeah,

[1:42:09] it's,

[1:42:09] yeah,

[1:42:10] it's very meaningful

[1:42:11] and the way that

[1:42:13] in the end of the movie

[1:42:14] they managed to actually

[1:42:14] weave in some actual footage

[1:42:16] of Tina Turner.

[1:42:17] Normally,

[1:42:18] I find, like,

[1:42:19] when you take a biopic

[1:42:20] and you mix in footage

[1:42:21] of the actual person,

[1:42:22] it ends up kind of being

[1:42:23] a little weird,

[1:42:23] but there's something

[1:42:24] very special about it.

[1:42:25] It feels very triumphant.

[1:42:26] So,

[1:42:26] if you're looking for a way

[1:42:27] to celebrate

[1:42:28] a generational talent

[1:42:31] like Tina Turner,

[1:42:33] this is a good way

[1:42:33] to do it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:42:34] And I'm going to recommend

[1:42:35] a movie starring someone

[1:42:37] who is not particularly

[1:42:39] popular with people

[1:42:40] right now,

[1:42:40] but I'm going to do it anyway

[1:42:42] because I don't care

[1:42:43] whose toes I step on.

[1:42:44] Yes, I do.

[1:42:44] I don't want to step

[1:42:45] on people's toes,

[1:42:46] but in this case,

[1:42:46] I'm pretending.

[1:42:47] I'm putting on a false front

[1:42:48] because I don't want people

[1:42:49] to get mad at me.

[1:42:50] And that's a movie

[1:42:51] called Miami Blues.

[1:42:53] So,

[1:42:53] this is a movie starring

[1:42:54] Alec Baldwin

[1:42:55] and Jennifer Jason Leigh

[1:42:56] and Fred Ward.

[1:42:58] I remember when it came out

[1:42:59] when I was a kid

[1:43:00] and I was too young

[1:43:01] to see it

[1:43:01] and I could not really

[1:43:02] figure out what kind

[1:43:03] of movie it was supposed

[1:43:04] to be from the commercials

[1:43:05] and the trailers

[1:43:06] and watching it,

[1:43:07] I'm like,

[1:43:08] I don't know that anyone

[1:43:09] was going to be able

[1:43:09] to figure out exactly

[1:43:10] what kind of movie it is

[1:43:10] because it's a,

[1:43:12] you know,

[1:43:13] a kind of comedy crime movie

[1:43:14] but not a full-on comedy

[1:43:16] and much more crime

[1:43:17] and I think that

[1:43:17] until the heyday

[1:43:19] of Tarantino movies,

[1:43:21] that was still kind of

[1:43:22] a fringe thing

[1:43:23] for a movie to be,

[1:43:24] for it to be

[1:43:25] a more out-and-out

[1:43:26] crime movie

[1:43:27] that had a sense of humor.

[1:43:28] And in it,

[1:43:29] is a sociopath,

[1:43:31] maybe not that different

[1:43:32] from real life,

[1:43:32] I don't know,

[1:43:32] I've never met him,

[1:43:33] who is a con artist

[1:43:34] but not a particularly

[1:43:36] brilliant

[1:43:37] or even effective

[1:43:39] con artist

[1:43:40] in a lot of ways.

[1:43:40] He's better at

[1:43:41] figuring out people

[1:43:42] to prey on

[1:43:43] than he is at

[1:43:43] keeping his story straight.

[1:43:45] And he falls in love

[1:43:47] with Jennifer Jason Leigh

[1:43:48] who's a very naive

[1:43:49] young woman

[1:43:49] in many ways

[1:43:51] but is also

[1:43:51] a woman who is

[1:43:52] desperate for

[1:43:53] a kind of like

[1:43:54] stability

[1:43:55] and comfort

[1:43:56] that she thinks

[1:43:56] he can give him

[1:43:57] and she thinks

[1:43:58] he can give her.

[1:43:59] And Fred Ward

[1:44:00] is a police officer

[1:44:02] who gets wrapped up

[1:44:04] with these two

[1:44:04] and Alec Baldwin

[1:44:05] in a fit of anger

[1:44:07] beats him up

[1:44:09] and steals his badge

[1:44:10] and his dentures

[1:44:11] and his gun

[1:44:12] and decides

[1:44:13] to present himself

[1:44:14] as a kind of

[1:44:16] fake police officer

[1:44:17] in order to rob people

[1:44:18] and gets into

[1:44:19] more and more trouble

[1:44:20] doing this.

[1:44:20] And it's the kind

[1:44:21] of movie that like

[1:44:22] it's not based on a,

[1:44:24] it's based on a novel

[1:44:25] by Charles Williford

[1:44:26] but it feels like

[1:44:28] an Elmore Leonard

[1:44:28] type story

[1:44:29] in a lot of ways.

Dan McCoy

[1:44:30] Well, I'm sorry,

[1:44:32] I'm just saying

[1:44:32] that I read the book

[1:44:33] as well as,

[1:44:34] I've seen this movie

[1:44:35] and I like it a lot too.

[1:44:36] I read the book

[1:44:36] because Elmore Leonard

[1:44:38] cited him as like

[1:44:39] he's the best crime novelist.

[1:44:41] So like definitely

[1:44:42] a similar type of thing.

Elliott Kalan

[1:44:44] And it's just like

[1:44:45] I really liked it a lot.

[1:44:46] I like spending time

[1:44:47] with these characters

[1:44:47] even when they were being,

[1:44:49] even when Alec Baldwin's

[1:44:49] character is being

[1:44:50] you know,

[1:44:51] like a terrible person.

[1:44:53] There's still something

[1:44:54] fascinating about them

[1:44:55] and it was written

[1:44:56] and directed

[1:44:57] by George Armitage

[1:44:58] who also did

[1:44:58] Gross Point Blank.

[1:44:59] So it's like a

[1:45:01] little bit less

[1:45:02] comical version

[1:45:03] of Gross Point Blank

[1:45:04] in a way.

[1:45:04] It's been a similar tone.

[1:45:05] So that's Miami Blues.

[1:45:07] If you want to see

[1:45:07] a performance

[1:45:09] that I did not think

[1:45:12] was going to be able

[1:45:13] to pull off

[1:45:13] the whole movie

[1:45:14] but he does

[1:45:15] really well

[1:45:16] and Fred Ward

[1:45:17] and Jennifer Jason Leigh

[1:45:19] are just like

[1:45:21] super likable

[1:45:22] throughout the whole movie.

[1:45:23] So that's Miami Blues.

Dan McCoy

[1:45:25] Well, you know what?

[1:45:28] That's the end of the show.

[1:45:29] Yay!

Elliott Kalan

[1:45:30] We did it!

[1:45:31] We survived the

[1:45:32] Quantumverse, guys.

[1:45:33] We made it out alive.

[1:45:34] We made it back.

[1:45:34] It's just the one

[1:45:35] thing we trapped Kang there.

Stuart Wellington

[1:45:36] What's next?

[1:45:36] The Kang Dynasty?

Elliott Kalan

[1:45:37] The Kang Dynasty

[1:45:38] when Kang is going to

[1:45:40] fight himself

[1:45:41] with big shoulder pads

[1:45:42] and they roll into a pool.

[1:45:43] Oh, I love it.

[1:45:45] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:45:46] That would be great.

[1:45:48] Hey, we haven't said

[1:45:49] this in a while.

[1:45:50] If you like the show,

[1:45:52] maybe get on iTunes,

[1:45:54] give us a good rating.

[1:45:55] I think I said

[1:45:55] in a previous episode

[1:45:56] I felt bummed out

[1:45:58] by some bad ratings

[1:45:59] that were not about

[1:45:59] the show

[1:46:01] or about whether

[1:46:02] the show is funny

[1:46:03] but about,

[1:46:04] you know,

[1:46:05] right-wing trolls

[1:46:06] getting angry.

[1:46:06] They're nearly about us

Elliott Kalan

[1:46:07] being taken over

[1:46:08] by the woke mind virus.

[1:46:09] Yeah.

[1:46:09] Oh, we are.

[1:46:10] That's crazy.

[1:46:11] It's weird how

[1:46:12] when the woke mind virus

[1:46:13] takes over

[1:46:13] you feel better

[1:46:14] and you're nicer to people.

Dan McCoy

[1:46:16] Yeah.

[1:46:16] Oh, man.

[1:46:17] Yeah, you're not just

[1:46:18] sort of like looking

[1:46:18] for ways to exclude

[1:46:20] and put others down.

[1:46:23] Anyway,

[1:46:24] yeah,

Stuart Wellington

[1:46:25] I don't know.

[1:46:25] If you're inclined to,

Dan McCoy

[1:46:27] leave us a nice review

[1:46:28] on iTunes.

[1:46:31] Tell other folks about us

[1:46:32] that you might think

[1:46:33] would like the show,

[1:46:34] might think would like.

[1:46:36] Now I'm talking like

[1:46:36] I'm a little labiner character.

[1:46:38] Thank you to our network

[1:46:39] Maximum Fun.

[1:46:40] Go to MaximumFun.org

[1:46:42] if you want to check out

[1:46:43] other great podcasts

[1:46:44] on the network.

[1:46:46] There are a ton of them.

[1:46:48] Thank you to Alex Smith

[1:46:50] who goes by the name

[1:46:51] Howell Doughty

[1:46:52] on various socials

[1:46:54] for being our producer.

[1:46:55] He does music.

[1:46:57] He does videos.

[1:46:57] He does Twitch streams.

[1:46:59] Check him out

[1:46:59] and what he does

[1:47:00] on his own.

[1:47:02] But now I say

[1:47:04] thank you for listening.

[1:47:05] For the Flophouse,

[1:47:06] I have been Dan McCoy.

Stuart Wellington

[1:47:08] I've been Stuart Wellington.

Elliott Kalan

[1:47:09] I'm Elliot Kalin

[1:47:10] and as long as we're saying

[1:47:11] things that we haven't said

[1:47:12] in a while but we should.

[1:47:13] Dan Stewart,

[1:47:14] I love you.

Stuart Wellington

[1:47:14] Oh, thanks.

[1:47:15] Oh, come on.

[1:47:19] Bye.

[1:47:20] Haunted by numbers.

Dan McCoy

[1:47:35] I am the ghost of four.

[1:47:39] Ooh.

[1:47:41] Look how easily

[1:47:43] I am divisible into two.

[1:47:46] Very.

[1:47:47] Very.

Elliott Kalan

[1:47:47] And I am the ghost of nine.

[1:47:51] Add me to something.

[1:47:54] Go ahead.

[1:47:55] I dare you.

Dan McCoy

[1:47:56] Here's an easy tip.

[1:47:58] Act like you're adding ten

[1:47:59] but subtract one

[1:48:01] from the other number.

[1:48:03] Oh.

Elliott Kalan

[1:48:04] Multiply me by a number

[1:48:05] and then add the two digits

[1:48:06] together of what you get

[1:48:09] and it becomes a nine again.

[1:48:10] Oh.

[1:48:12] Oh, no.

[1:48:12] We're doing math and magic now.

[1:48:14] I don't like math and magic.

[1:48:15] Oh, math and magic.

[1:48:15] That's the devil's work.

[1:48:16] Yeah.

[1:48:18] Maximumfun.org

Dan McCoy

[1:48:19] Comedy and culture.

[1:48:21] Artist owned.

[1:48:22] Audience supported.

Ep.#398 - Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania

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