Ep.#402 - The Net

Stuart Wellington

[0:00] On this episode, we discuss the net.

[0:03] But not the kind that you get fishes with.

[0:30] Hey, everyone, and welcome to The Flophouse.

Dan McCoy

[0:45] I'm Dan McCoy.

[0:46] I'm Stuart Wellington.

Elliott Kalan

[0:47] And I'm Elliot Kalin.

[0:48] And I want to take a quick moment before we get into the episode just to remind everybody we're in the middle of our Flop TV series of kind of streamlined TV-ish episodes of The Flophouse.

[0:58] By the time you are hearing this, we have done our first episode, Beastmaster 2, through the portal of time.

[1:03] And when you're hearing this, if you're hearing this on the day this episode is released, you will have one more week to watch the recording of it.

[1:08] Even though that episode was released live, we did it live on the air.

[1:13] We're doing it live on the air.

[1:14] We're just going to do it live on the air in the road.

[1:17] Nobody's watching, but hopefully you're watching.

[1:19] And you have one more week to watch if you today buy a ticket.

[1:23] We're going to have five more episodes, five more months.

[1:26] It's going to be great.

[1:27] Once a month, go to theflophouse.simpleticks.com for tickets and more information.

[1:32] Uh-huh.

Dan McCoy

[1:32] Yeah.

[1:32] Sorry.

[1:33] I'm laughing because there's a brief point where that sort of turned into like a James Joyce version of an advertisement.

[1:40] Just like pure stream of consciousness.

[1:43] Uh-huh.

[1:44] Less helpful maybe for the listener.

[1:47] But more beautiful.

[1:48] And influential, yeah.

[1:49] Yeah, more beautiful, yeah.

[1:49] Should I watch the Flophouse live show?

Elliott Kalan

[1:51] Yes.

[1:51] I said yes, and then yes.

[1:53] Yeah.

[1:53] Hmm.

Dan McCoy

[1:55] Well, this is a podcast where we watch a bad movie and then we talk about it.

[1:59] And hey, let's be upfront with what we're doing here.

[2:02] Uh-huh.

[2:03] The Writers Guild of America is on strike.

[2:05] SAG-AFTRA is on strike, at least when we're recording this.

[2:08] Uh-huh.

[2:09] No end in sight for those strikes so far.

[2:12] Uh-huh.

[2:13] And because of that, we thought, hey, even though we talk about movies that we are saying the general consensus is that they're bad,

[2:24] and so maybe that's not like the most promotional one could be,

[2:27] we still didn't want to promote new stuff, you know, newer media while the strike was going on.

[2:34] Okay.

[2:34] Uh-huh.

[2:35] So we decided to use this strike as an opportunity to sort of go back in time and do some older films that were before the Flophouse even existed.

[2:47] Uh-huh.

[2:48] And we were going to kind of do this by decade.

Stuart Wellington

[2:50] When the Flophouse was just a twinkle in Dan's eye.

[2:53] Uh-huh.

Dan McCoy

[2:54] Uh-huh.

[2:54] We decided, let's do this by decade.

[2:57] Let's start off in the 90s, do some 90s films, then go back a decade, do some 80s films.

Elliott Kalan

[3:05] So you're saying we're already going to go back in time, and then we're going to go back even further in time.

Dan McCoy

[3:11] Mm-hmm.

[3:11] Yeah.

[3:12] I mean, who knows?

[3:13] If the strike lingers on forever, you might get some real classic flops.

[3:16] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[3:16] We're going to talk about all the worst movies of the silent era eventually.

[3:21] Hopefully the strike won't go that long.

Dan McCoy

[3:23] But also, you know, going back, we loosened up what we thought of as a flop.

[3:29] We're just going back and looking at some movies that maybe are thought of as being kind of dumb.

[3:36] Which I think is the net.

[3:38] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[3:38] At this point, life is difficult.

[3:40] Let's just have fun, guys.

[3:41] Like, let's just have fun.

[3:42] Let's not worry about the deets.

[3:44] If you, speaking of the strike, if you would like to make a donation of any kind to help support entertainment workers who are affected by the strike,

[3:50] please go to entertainmentcommunity.org.

[3:53] Otherwise, the most direct way you can help two specific workers affected by the strike, Dan and me,

[3:59] is by buying tickets to our live shows and continuing to support us and so forth.

[4:03] Yeah, and we really appreciate it.

[4:05] We appreciate that a lot.

[4:06] We're doing that, those of you who do that.

[4:08] Without this podcast, things would be pretty dicey for us,

[4:11] and I don't just mean because I would have to go back to my gambling roots to keep my family afloat.

Stuart Wellington

[4:16] Also, I just—

[4:17] You call it the Mississippi grind, right?

Elliott Kalan

[4:19] Yeah, I call it the Mississippi grind, and sometimes I call it the Tallahassee shuffle,

[4:23] but I'm not calling it that too much lately.

Dan McCoy

[4:25] I did not mean to imply, by the way, that only those who support us financially in some way are valued listeners.

[4:31] I'm glad that you're all out there, but I'm also glad that there is some money coming in.

Elliott Kalan

[4:37] Dan is merely saying all animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others,

[4:40] and the ones that are more equal are the ones who are directly financially supporting us.

[4:43] Also, if you would like—

[4:44] I'm not saying it, I guess, but—

[4:45] Also, remember, four hoofs was good, but it's now bad.

[4:49] Two hoofs was bad, and it's now good.

[4:51] Oh, this is the new hoofs.

[4:52] So, wait, is it—

[4:53] Update for 2023.

[4:55] Yeah, exactly.

Stuart Wellington

[4:55] Is it good that I have a star on my belly, or should I not have a star on my belly?

[5:00] I talked to—

[5:01] I looked at—

[5:01] Let's see.

Elliott Kalan

[5:02] Yeah, I looked at the latest McBean numbers, the latest Monkey McBean numbers,

[5:06] and it's inconclusive at the moment whether it's better to have a star or not have a star.

Dan McCoy

[5:10] What about butter side up or down?

[5:12] Is that a thing?

Elliott Kalan

[5:13] Dan, we never make light of that.

[5:15] Never forget.

[5:16] The victims of the butter battle.

[5:18] Oh, boy.

[5:18] It was dangerous.

[5:19] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[5:19] So, today we talked about a little movie from 1995 called The Net.

[5:24] Now, have you guys seen The Net before?

[5:26] I saw The Net in the theater, baby.

[5:28] Same here.

[5:29] And I remember walking out being like, that was a thrill ride.

[5:32] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[5:32] I saw it in the theater, and I saw it years later when the late lamented 90 to Y Tribeca

[5:37] put on a double feature called Hackers of 1995.

[5:41] Okay.

[5:41] So, I was there with you.

Dan McCoy

[5:42] I asked Stuart whether he was there, and he was like, unfortunately, no.

[5:45] But I think that was a laugh riot, those two movies together.

[5:48] It was great.

Elliott Kalan

[5:49] It was so much fun watching The Net and Hackers.

[5:51] And it was so great then.

[5:53] And I feel like internet stuff has only gotten more complicated, and these programs only look

[5:57] more primitive now.

[5:59] And that was at least 10 years ago, I think.

[6:01] So, what a ride.

[6:03] What a ride.

Stuart Wellington

[6:03] Before we actually get into the plot of the movie, I just want to talk about the thing that

[6:07] the biggest appeal of this movie, watching this now, is the anytime a character logs on

[6:13] or turns on a fucking computer screen.

[6:15] We are graced with the most beautiful graphics in the universe.

[6:19] Yeah.

[6:21] Whether it's ordering a pizza where you get to see the pizza before you, imagine the ingredients

[6:26] and they appear on screen.

Dan McCoy

[6:28] The funny thing about this movie is it looks so out of date now, but at the time, people

[6:35] were not like the thing.

[6:36] A thing that seems very simple to us today, ordering pizza online, was not a thing that

[6:41] was done.

[6:42] No.

[6:42] It was a new thing.

[6:44] It was an amazing thing that Sandra Bullock would be ordering a pizza online and that the

[6:48] graphics would look so good for this pizza.net, this magical website.

Elliott Kalan

[6:54] You remember when Jurassic Park came out, people were like, it's amazing, the idea of a cloned

[6:59] dinosaur.

[7:00] It astounded people.

[7:01] Now they're everywhere.

[7:02] People are not that impressed by them.

[7:03] You can't go outside without tripping over a damn raptor, just lying on the ground being

[7:07] lazy, you know?

Dan McCoy

[7:08] Thank you for deflating the moment because I was realizing how old I sounded right then.

[7:13] But it is true that this movie, when it came out, was a thrill ride because it seemed

[7:18] prescient.

[7:20] And it is in certain ways still.

[7:24] It also now, you know, it's imagining such a goofy version of the future that we know

[7:30] is quite right.

Elliott Kalan

[7:31] It's prescient in the idea that there are corporations and shadowy figures that want

[7:36] to use the internet as a means of control and to make money.

[7:40] And the thing the movie gets wrong is that it's preposits they would have to do that

[7:43] in a conspiratorial, a covert way, when in reality they just do it.

[7:47] It's just over and everybody just puts up with it.

[7:50] But there was, I have to say, I was also hit by the nostalgia bug while watching it because

[7:54] a lot of it centers around this website for a band called Mozart's Ghost.

[7:59] And the way their website is set up, the buttons to get to different areas are in the shape

[8:04] of instruments.

[8:05] And I was like, oh yeah.

[8:06] Remember when like people would like make, like the websites like looked interesting or

[8:12] at least like everyone was like, we got to jazz it up.

[8:14] It's the internet as opposed to now when it's just kind of like you click on the menu button

[8:18] and then a menu pops up, you know?

[8:19] Yeah, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[8:20] Everybody go over to boardgamegeek.com to see what a bad looking website is like.

Dan McCoy

[8:27] I understand what you're saying.

[8:28] I mean like the reason we abandoned that was it was annoying.

[8:32] Oh, it's super unwieldy.

Elliott Kalan

[8:33] And it means that all these animations, it's the same way we've been watching, I've been

[8:36] showing Monty Python to my older son and I have the DVDs that got put out by A&E years

[8:42] ago.

[8:42] And every disc, when you put it in, you have to sit through this long animation that promotes

[8:48] Monty Python.

[8:48] It's like a long animated introduction that's like the groundbreaking BBC series now on DVD for

[8:53] the first time.

[8:54] And I'm like, you don't have to make a big show of it.

[8:56] Just like get me to a menu.

[8:57] Like just get me to the episode I want.

[8:58] I don't need to celebrate DVDs each time I put it in.

[9:01] Or we watched a DVD of League of Their Own the other day and it opens with this long advertisement

[9:06] for movies on DVD and it's the most random assortment of movies.

[9:10] And it's just like, I get it.

[9:11] Yeah, it's just take me to the fucking movie.

Stuart Wellington

[9:13] Like just.

[9:14] I gotta say, I'm pushing back.

[9:15] I love that shit.

[9:16] Give me like trailers for old ass movies I haven't thought about.

[9:19] Give me a trailer for Chain Reaction or some shit.

Elliott Kalan

[9:21] That was when I finished watching.

[9:24] One of the movies that came up as an option to watch again, what next was Chain Reaction?

[9:28] And I was like, should I?

[9:29] Maybe?

Stuart Wellington

[9:30] You looked over at Daniel.

[9:32] She's asleep.

Dan McCoy

[9:34] It felt like I was cheating on the movies of today.

[9:36] No, Andrew Davis is a pretty good action director.

[9:40] It's gotta have something.

Stuart Wellington

[9:42] Okay, let's get into the net.

[9:45] Movie has a cold open.

[9:46] We see the undersecretary of defense.

[9:49] He's making calls, doing deals, doing business.

[9:51] He goes off on a ride to a playground.

[9:55] He says goodbye to his family.

[9:56] And then he promptly commits suicide in a public park.

[9:59] What?

Dan McCoy

[9:59] He promptly sticks a gun in his mouth as the camera pans up to a big statue of like a man

[10:05] drowning in sand that's in that park.

[10:07] Yeah.

[10:07] And you heard the gunshot.

[10:08] And you're like, that's a dope statue.

[10:11] It is a dope statue.

[10:11] Yeah, that's a great statue.

[10:13] Like the movie doesn't want you to laugh at this.

[10:16] Like it's like a man committed suicide.

[10:18] But it was the first big laugh of the movie for me just in the sense that like you're given

[10:23] no foreshadowing.

[10:25] No, not at all.

Stuart Wellington

[10:26] It's such a classic like thriller opening.

[10:28] Yeah.

[10:29] It's like, oh, what was so horrible that caused that girl to get killed by the ring?

[10:34] Well, that's how we, you know.

Elliott Kalan

[10:35] But it's also, I'll mention that, so this would have meant more in 1995 also.

[10:40] Because this is deliberately playing off the death of Vince Foster, who was one of the

[10:43] White House councils and who had died of a gunshot, of a self-inflicted gunshot wound in a park,

[10:49] in a public park.

[10:51] And there were all these conspiracy theories about it, that Clintons had him murdered and

[10:54] stuff like that.

[10:55] When it seems likely now that it was just suicidal depression.

[10:59] And if you are, if any listening are feeling depression or feeling those thoughts, please

[11:03] reach out to someone.

[11:04] Please, you're not alone.

[11:05] And this is a serious moment that I didn't mean to stumble into.

[11:09] But please take a moment, reach out to somebody.

[11:12] People care about you and you are worth it.

[11:15] But this would, but to viewers at the time, they would have been like, oh, this is like

[11:18] that thing that happened.

[11:19] And I will say that statue, it's a real statue.

[11:21] It's called The Awakening.

[11:22] It's located in Prince George's County, Maryland.

[11:25] So you can go see it.

[11:27] It's a giant, a big giant.

Dan McCoy

[11:27] You can go see it on your tour of the net filming location.

Elliott Kalan

[11:32] Yeah.

[11:33] I imagine there's a plaque that says in 1995, the movie The Net was shot here.

Stuart Wellington

[11:37] And there's a picture of all the kitchen staff standing next to Sandra Bullock.

[11:41] And it's on the wall.

[11:43] Okay.

[11:43] The kitchen staff at the statue.

[11:45] Okay.

[11:46] So we are wasting daylight here, guys.

[11:50] So we are then introduced to Angela, played by, that's right, Sandy B.

[11:55] And she is a computer programmer who works remotely.

[11:58] Oppression, right?

[11:59] That's just like all you guys.

[12:00] She works remotely finding bugs and programs.

[12:03] She lives alone.

[12:05] She hangs out in chat rooms.

[12:06] She takes care of her mother who suffers from Alzheimer's and is very excited about an upcoming

[12:11] vacation.

Dan McCoy

[12:12] It was very funny to me how this was positioned as like the saddest life that she has where

[12:18] she's like alone ordering pizza off the internet, talking to other people on the internet when

[12:23] that's just how life is these days.

[12:26] Yeah.

[12:27] She like.

[12:27] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[12:28] Well, I mean, not a bad mess.

[12:30] Not incorrect.

[12:31] Life has gotten sadder in a lot of ways.

Dan McCoy

[12:33] No, no.

[12:34] I know.

[12:34] It's just like at the time it was like this is the worst thing you can imagine.

[12:39] Imagine.

[12:40] Every single woman alone in her home ordering pizza and talking to people on the internet.

Stuart Wellington

[12:46] Well, she's and she's ordering pizza off of one computer and the other computer she's

[12:50] playing Wolfenstein.

[12:51] I got to tell you, I've never been happier than when I was doing those things.

Elliott Kalan

[12:55] Yeah.

[12:55] It looked pretty good to me.

[12:56] Yeah.

[12:57] But you're right, Dan, that the message seems to be why would you stay at home?

[13:01] Why would you talk to people at a distance?

[13:02] What good is sitting alone in your room, Elliot?

Dan McCoy

[13:06] Come to the cabaret.

Elliott Kalan

[13:09] She needs to be at a cabaret.

[13:10] She needs to be in a crowded indoor space with lots of people.

[13:13] Everyone breathing in each other's faces.

[13:16] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[13:17] Okay.

[13:18] Singing songs about two ladies.

[13:20] Anyway, go on.

Stuart Wellington

[13:21] This is great.

[13:21] There's a lot of like little touches.

[13:22] As we mentioned, there's pizza.net.

[13:24] There's Wolfenstein.

[13:26] She hangs out in a cyber chat room of other people who are cyber inclined like Cyber Bob

[13:31] and Iceman.

[13:33] All our friends.

[13:35] She's clearly.

[13:36] How is that Iceman from Top Gun?

[13:38] It is.

[13:38] Yeah.

[13:38] And he, the thing is, she's dangerous.

[13:42] Okay.

[13:42] So we learned that she's single, but she has kind of high standards.

[13:46] She has a very specific idea of what kind of man she wants.

[13:49] And she explains it to her friends in the chat room.

[13:51] She also discovers a virus in the copy of Wolfenstein.

[13:54] She's playing terrible.

[13:55] So she mails that to her friend, Dale.

[13:57] Who collects viruses.

[13:59] Who collects viruses.

[14:00] And who works in their office, but she's never been there.

[14:03] Right?

[14:03] Yeah.

[14:04] Yeah.

[14:04] So the offices are in San Francisco.

Elliott Kalan

[14:05] So Citadel, the company that she works for is in San Francisco.

[14:09] She lives in Venice, California.

[14:10] Cathedral.

[14:11] L.A., baby.

[14:12] It's Cathedral, Elliot.

[14:13] Oh, Cathedral, sorry.

Stuart Wellington

[14:14] Citadel was the failed Amazon Prime program.

Elliott Kalan

[14:15] Yeah, yeah.

[14:16] Another example of.

[14:17] She makes more sense, though, as a cybersecurity company than Cathedral does.

[14:21] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[14:21] An early remote worker.

[14:23] I don't want to gloss over her, like, high standards for men because it's like, it's a very.

Elliott Kalan

[14:27] Because you felt threatened?

[14:29] She was asking too much?

[14:30] I did.

[14:32] Well, I did.

[14:32] But I want to feel like I have a chance with the girl from Speed.

Dan McCoy

[14:34] It did feel a little bit like the song, That Don't Impress Me Much, but I'm like, okay, well, your standards, I don't know.

Elliott Kalan

[14:41] I love the idea.

[14:43] That's the Italian version of the song, That Don't Impress Me Much.

Dan McCoy

[14:47] She was like, I want Albert Schweitzer by way of Captain America.

[14:54] And I know that this is, like, in the context of, like, a fantasy, like, who's your ideal man on the thing.

[14:59] But I'm like, all right, tone it down a little bit.

Elliott Kalan

[15:02] Dan, it originally was even worse.

[15:03] I looked in the original screenplay.

[15:04] At one point, she meant she's hung like a centaur, which seems unrealistic.

[15:08] That is unrealistic.

Dan McCoy

[15:09] Yeah.

[15:10] Specifically a centaur.

[15:11] Yeah, a centaur, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[15:13] Because that's where there's a little set of extra legs behind the balls, right?

Dan McCoy

[15:17] Yeah, because that's what she likes.

[15:18] Yeah, exactly.

[15:19] It's like a horse, you know, like, that's more than unique.

[15:24] Like a centaur, now, I'm assuming a centaur has somewhere between a normal man's penis and a horse's penis.

[15:28] Yeah, it's called a happy medium.

Elliott Kalan

[15:29] Yeah, it's a happy medium in terms of penis size, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[15:31] Dan, get out your Etch-a-Sketch and draw me what you're talking about.

Elliott Kalan

[15:34] Okay.

[15:35] Hold on.

[15:36] Twiddles and knobs.

[15:36] Oh, no, he shook it.

[15:37] Oh, he sneezed and shook it.

[15:39] It's lost to history.

[15:40] Oh, no.

[15:40] So much great art has been lost because of the Etch-a-Sketch.

Stuart Wellington

[15:44] Okay, so she's talking to her friend Dale.

[15:45] This is where the plot of the movie starts to kick in, guys.

[15:47] She's talking to her friend Dale, who's played by the guy who played the priest from Deadwood.

[15:51] You know what he looks like.

[15:52] He looks kind of like if Matthew Modine was a little bit weirder.

[15:55] And she mails him a virus.

[15:56] His name is Ray McKinnon.

[15:58] As I mentioned, he collects viruses.

[16:00] And in exchange, he mails her a disc that leads her to a website for a rock band called Mozart's Ghost,

[16:07] which is a very funny website, and it has lots of sound.

[16:10] And it seems like a band web page.

[16:15] But in the bottom corner, it's actually this – if you click on it, it has a little pie symbol,

[16:19] and it's an elite hacking key that lets the user basically into any website.

Dan McCoy

[16:25] This is not an important correction, but you do have to click on it and then do like a control something or whatever.

[16:30] It's not just like someone who could be like, why is there pie?

[16:34] I like pie.

Elliott Kalan

[16:35] A pizza pie.

[16:36] I'll go to pie.net.

[16:38] So two things I want to say here.

[16:39] One, when Mozart's Ghost boots up, it goes, Mozart's Ghost, the hottest band on the internet.

[16:44] And you hear this, I think, seven times, six times throughout the movie.

[16:47] Every time it makes me smile.

[16:49] Every time it makes me – and each time I've seen this movie, that is the thing.

[16:52] For some reason, that's the line that makes me the most nostalgic every time is Mozart's Ghost, the hottest band on the internet.

[17:01] And the other thing is that when you click on that pie and do whatever keystroke thing Dan wanted to clarify because who gives a shit.

Stuart Wellington

[17:10] Yeah.

[17:10] I didn't realize I was sitting with a fucking console cowboy over here.

Elliott Kalan

[17:14] Yeah, I didn't realize the goof section was right here to correct us.

[17:17] But whenever you click on it, it does the thing that 90s computers do when you hack them, which is a lot of screens and a lot of different text all flash onto your monitor at once.

[17:28] So all this stuff flashes onto you all at once.

[17:30] And you're like, huh, what?

[17:31] Just the same way that in hackers, if you remember, when you cut code out of a program and store it on a disk and you put that disk in your computer,

[17:39] you see a sort of red dimension where code is floating around in big numbers.

[17:44] Awesome.

[17:44] So they really didn't know how computers worked, I guess is what I'm saying.

Dan McCoy

[17:46] Yeah, I mean this is like – the funniest tech stuff is like the weird shorthand like that where it's like, oh, yeah, something hackery is going on.

[17:56] It looks like your TV is on the fridge or like this person collects viruses.

[18:01] So she somehow just like is able to extract just the virus and send it to – like that seems – I wasn't quite clear on that.

Elliott Kalan

[18:10] I don't know how computers work.

[18:11] Maybe you can do that.

Dan McCoy

[18:12] I don't know.

[18:13] But yeah, a lot of it is a little silly.

Elliott Kalan

[18:16] I guess that's all I'm saying.

[18:17] Yeah, I mean it gets sillier.

Stuart Wellington

[18:19] Yeah, so Dale convinces her to meet and so he's going to fly down and visit her in his Cessna.

[18:26] Unfortunately, due to a computer era – era.

[18:29] That's silly.

[18:30] We're in the computer era still.

[18:32] Due to a computer error, he crashes his Cessna and he dies, which he learns about shortly.

Elliott Kalan

[18:38] So it is implied that the evil hackers have taken over his navigation system and misdirected him.

[18:45] Is that – I mean you guys are hackers.

[18:47] You're netrunners.

[18:48] Is that possible?

[18:50] This is before wireless internet as far as I can tell.

[18:52] So can they do that?

Dan McCoy

[18:54] Yeah, that's – I don't know that this would have been wired.

[18:58] He just had like his instruments and then –

[19:02] I mean unless he's in a plane with like a 40-mile wire that just comes out of the plane.

Stuart Wellington

[19:08] Yeah, a 40-mile long LAN cable.

[19:09] Yeah.

[19:11] I would imagine that they probably had been tapping his phone and went to his plane and uploaded a virus.

[19:17] Oh, okay.

[19:19] Okay.

[19:19] That's fair.

[19:19] I see.

[19:20] That's good.

Elliott Kalan

[19:20] That makes more sense to me.

[19:22] That's a good continuity fix.

[19:23] You get your net prize.

[19:24] That's a no prize for people who watch the net.

[19:26] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[19:26] But despite this sadness, Angela still gets her beach vacation.

[19:30] She goes down there.

Dan McCoy

[19:32] I want to say the guy doesn't show up.

[19:36] She goes to the airport.

[19:39] Yeah.

[19:40] There's widespread – like nothing is working because all the computers are down.

[19:44] And then there's a part where the guy giving her coffee or whatever is like, oh, it looks like you're in luck.

[19:49] It's back up.

[19:50] And like everything that had been down immediately went to on time, which I was like, bullshit.

[19:57] After the systems are down, everything is delayed.

[19:59] But also this is one of these parts in the movie where I'm just like, I guess I assume that they were delaying her leaving until they could figure out how to deal with things.

Elliott Kalan

[20:09] I guess because we see that she's being watched by a shadowy figure also.

[20:13] Yeah.

[20:13] So it's all – this movie is – it's dealing with two different modes.

[20:17] The future mode of the internet where you can affect people at a distance.

[20:22] It's spooky action at a distance through the internet.

[20:24] And the old-fashioned world of movie thrillers where someone has to be physically present to do things.

[20:30] Yes.

[20:30] And the movie is battling between these two.

[20:32] It's a dialogue or perhaps an argument between these two modes of thought, the physical and the remote digital.

[20:39] Yeah, these two ideas.

[20:39] Really, the movie creates a fascinating synthesis between these two competing modes.

[20:45] Stuart, explain.

Stuart Wellington

[20:46] So she gets her beach.

[20:49] She meets a charming stranger.

[20:51] Is this the last day of her vacation?

[20:54] She meets a charming stranger named Jack Devlin, which sounds a lot like Jack Devil-in.

[21:01] Jack Devlin Miss Jones.

Dan McCoy

[21:04] Yep.

[21:05] The Devlin Jack Devlin.

[21:07] Gibson.

Elliott Kalan

[21:08] The Devlin's like, wait, I'm not – well, hold on.

[21:10] I'm confused about which one I am now.

[21:12] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[21:13] They share some of Dan's favorite cocktail, the Gibson Martinis.

[21:17] It's a martini but with an onion.

[21:19] He seems to – he works in the same field.

[21:22] Is that named after Mel Gibson?

Elliott Kalan

[21:23] Is that why you like it?

[21:24] Because you also subscribe to the same anti-Semitic and kind of extremist Catholic beliefs?

[21:28] Off-screen antics.

[21:29] Yeah.

[21:29] His off-screen antics.

[21:31] I've never been a fan of the man's work, but his off-screen antics really appeal to me.

Stuart Wellington

[21:37] So they work in the same field.

[21:41] They have a lot in common.

[21:43] They flirt.

[21:44] They –

Dan McCoy

[21:45] He calls her a hacker like right off the bat just because she has a computer.

[21:51] I guess this is an indication of how bizarre that was at the time.

Elliott Kalan

[21:54] I mean to be sitting on a beach with a laptop is pretty hacky at the time.

[22:00] And I don't mean hacky like old.

[22:02] I mean hacky like new.

[22:03] Like you're a hacker.

Stuart Wellington

[22:03] I'd be kind of surprised if I saw somebody sitting at the beach with a laptop now.

[22:07] Yeah, just because of the sand issue.

[22:09] Sand's bad.

[22:10] No thanks.

[22:10] Yeah.

[22:12] Anakin was right.

[22:13] So –

[22:13] He gets in your computers.

[22:15] He's –

[22:15] I hate sand.

[22:16] He gets in my computer keys.

[22:18] So she allows him to take her out that night.

[22:21] So they go on a hot ride in a go-fast boat.

[22:24] She gets her purse stolen.

[22:26] Technical term.

[22:27] Turns out Jack chases after the bandit only to discover we learn Jack's in on it.

[22:34] He hired this bandit to steal her purse and he finds the disc that has the Mozart's ghost bullshit on it.

[22:41] And he's like, ha-ha, we got it.

[22:43] Throws away all of her stuff, which is important for the next phase of this movie.

[22:46] But we're not there yet.

[22:47] He kills the burglar, the bandit.

Elliott Kalan

[22:49] You've already – you've downgraded him from bandit to burglar.

[22:52] Bandit is a little more romantic, a little more dashing.

[22:54] Burglar is a little bit, you know, scummier.

Dan McCoy

[22:56] Yeah, Bilbo Baggins is like –

[22:58] I think she might have been in a house to be burgled.

[23:00] Yeah.

[23:01] Technically, I don't know.

Elliott Kalan

[23:02] Once again, the goof patrol is correcting us again.

[23:05] Appreciate it, Dan.

Dan McCoy

[23:06] Oh, oh, I'm sorry.

[23:09] You never correct anything.

Stuart Wellington

[23:12] We then learn that this character smokes Newports, which I was surprised by.

[23:17] He's come a long way, baby.

[23:18] Yeah.

[23:19] Oh, no, those are Virginia Slims.

[23:20] I'm sorry, those are Virginia Slims.

[23:21] He takes her on a late night boat ride.

[23:23] She – he very clearly has nefarious plans for her.

[23:28] But they decide to have sex first.

[23:29] She spills about her –

[23:30] In her defense, she doesn't know about the nefarious plans.

Dan McCoy

[23:34] They get together.

[23:36] They have like –

Elliott Kalan

[23:36] I'm an evil hacker and I'm going to kill you.

[23:38] But first, would you like to have sex?

[23:40] Okay, yeah.

[23:41] Yeah, it's been a while, so –

[23:42] Yeah, sure.

[23:43] I mean, I spend most of my time playing Wolfenstein, so yeah, okay.

Stuart Wellington

[23:47] In the post-coital glow, she spills all about her past relationships, her mom's Alzheimer's, all this stuff.

[23:54] But then she finds –

[23:55] Really sexy pillow talk.

Elliott Kalan

[23:57] Yeah.

[23:57] Really the stuff you want to hear in the afterglow.

[23:59] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[23:59] Then she finds the silence pistol he had hidden in his coat.

[24:05] And she throws the bullets away and knocks them in the head and manages to grab some stuff and takes a dinghy and the keys and takes a dinghy to escape.

[24:15] Now –

[24:15] Only to crash that dinghy and get knocked out.

Dan McCoy

[24:18] Now, Stuart, I understand why you are whizzing through the summary.

[24:24] Most people probably have seen the net and you have a busy day.

[24:27] I don't know about that.

Elliott Kalan

[24:28] I don't know about that, Dan.

[24:29] I don't know if most people have seen the net.

[24:30] There's nearly 8 billion people on the planet.

[24:33] What percentage do you think has seen the net?

[24:34] Most of them.

[24:35] Most of them.

[24:36] Yeah.

[24:36] Fill in the gaps.

[24:37] No problem.

[24:38] At least 5 to 6 billion.

[24:40] Add some texture, Dan.

Dan McCoy

[24:42] We had a long mini recording before this.

[24:44] You've got a busy day.

[24:45] I know why you've got to zip through some of this.

[24:48] But I just want to highlight the moment where, like –

[24:52] So she asks him about the gun, why he has it.

[24:56] He gives her some bullshit, takes the gun –

[24:58] It says shark fishing.

[24:59] – away from her.

[25:01] And then, like, gets really mad all of a sudden.

[25:06] Like, it's like, oh, I know what you want, Albert Schweitzer.

[25:09] Who am I?

[25:10] Who am I?

[25:10] Like, I'm the perfect man.

[25:11] Like, I don't know why he got so mad at her.

[25:14] And then he, like, tries to shoot –

Elliott Kalan

[25:17] Dan, he is a male hacker.

[25:19] He is mad at women and mad at the world for not getting –

[25:22] That's probably –

[25:23] And he's especially –

[25:25] And you'd think giving him sex, the thing he wants more than anything else,

[25:28] would make him less mad.

[25:29] No, it only enrages him more.

[25:31] Right.

[25:31] So the fact that he suddenly starts violently getting angry at a woman,

[25:35] it's not a shock to me.

Dan McCoy

[25:37] That's true.

[25:38] Although he's, like, not presented, like, the sort of hacker who might react that way.

[25:44] He's, like –

[25:44] Well, it's still a movie.

[25:45] A suave Jeremy Northam.

[25:47] Yeah.

[25:47] But –

Elliott Kalan

[25:48] Well, originally they had cast Jeremy Southam.

[25:51] And then he had to pull out at the last minute.

[25:53] A lot more sense.

Dan McCoy

[25:53] But he, you know, he tries to shoot her, and then she kind of, like, reveals that she'd taken the clip out.

[25:59] But I found this part of the –

[26:02] Like, Sandra Bullock is an immensely, like, charismatic actor.

[26:08] Like, she just exudes a certain likability.

[26:11] Yeah.

[26:12] And this moment, I think, is also some very good acting from her, where she has this, like, look on her face.

[26:18] Like, she found the gun.

[26:19] She didn't believe that he was telling the truth, that something was weird.

[26:22] But she definitely did not expect that this man she just slept with would try and shoot her.

[26:27] And this, like, hurt, stunned shock is very effective, I think, in that moment.

Stuart Wellington

[26:33] Yeah.

[26:33] I think you're right.

[26:34] I think this stuff –

[26:35] I think this scene really works.

[26:37] Yeah.

[26:38] So she has crashed her boat.

[26:40] She wakes up a few days later in a hospital.

[26:43] There's a doctor who's smoking a cigarette.

[26:45] That's great.

[26:47] Probably shouldn't do that in there, dude.

[26:49] And this is where –

Elliott Kalan

[26:50] It was 1995.

[26:51] Everyone was smoking.

[26:52] It was all over the place.

[26:53] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[26:54] This is where she learns that her identity is being stolen.

[26:58] And this happens over a series of incidents.

[27:00] One, when she goes to check back into her hotel, it turns out she's already been checked out.

[27:04] That's weird.

[27:05] She didn't do that.

[27:06] She didn't authorize that.

[27:07] But the computer says so.

[27:08] When she's at, like, a train station or something, she's approached by a strange woman with a visa application that's to Ruth Marks.

[27:16] That's not her name.

[27:17] But it has her picture and all her information.

[27:19] And it seems like that filling out this form is the only way she can get back into the –

[27:22] The computer says so.

[27:23] This is –

Elliott Kalan

[27:23] So each of these things, people are like, the computer says so.

[27:27] We've got to go with what the computer says.

[27:29] But her signing this fake name is literally the new gas cooker sketch from Monty Python, where they're like, well, we've got to deliver the gas cooker to here, but it's got the wrong name on it.

[27:39] Can you just sign that name?

[27:40] And then later in the sketch, they're like, the wrong name's on this application.

[27:44] We can't help you.

[27:44] And so what I like is that this thriller took a little bit of Monty Python and made it scary as opposed to funny.

[27:51] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[27:52] When she gets back to L.A., she learns that her home has been sold and all of her furniture is gone.

[27:59] And when she questions everybody, they're like, no, Angela moved out all this time ago.

[28:03] You're not who you say you are.

Dan McCoy

[28:04] Yeah.

[28:04] And this scene has the most hilariously unhelpful neighbor who has only seen her from a distance and is like, she moved out.

[28:12] And, you know, one thing that is effective, maybe cheaply effective in certain ways, but effective is always to have, like, a character who is just, like, the worst and unhelpful.

[28:25] But this scene, I was just like, get the fuck out of here, awful neighbor.

[28:30] Why are you still hanging around being such a jerk?

Stuart Wellington

[28:34] Yeah.

[28:34] No, I like it.

[28:36] You're like, yeah, where you're expecting a little bit of help and it does not come at all.

Elliott Kalan

[28:40] And you have to imagine they didn't even ask her.

[28:42] She just wandered into the house going, what's going on here?

[28:44] What's happening here?

[28:46] Yeah.

[28:46] Oh, police, huh?

[28:47] This is weird.

[28:48] Tell me about it.

Stuart Wellington

[28:50] So while this is happening, meanwhile, Jack Devlin is driving around the streets of L.A. wearing a turtleneck like a maniac.

[28:59] Using his laptop computer from the car to track her down.

[29:06] And he also builds a criminal background for Ruth Marks so that she has to run from the police as well.

[29:16] That she is – everyone finds her suspicious.

[29:20] Computers again.

Elliott Kalan

[29:21] Do you think there's anything – do you think it's a coded message here that her original name is Angela Bennett and that now she's been renamed Ruth Marks, a much more Jewish name?

[29:29] Both Ruth and Marks say Jewish to me, that now they have – they've been – not only is she – they've made her into a criminal, but they've kind of de-Caucasianized – I guess Jews are still – I mean most Ashkenazers are Jews.

[29:40] You would still call Caucasians.

[29:41] They've de-Christianized her in a way that makes her more suspicious in the eyes of institutions.

[29:46] Do you think that's part of it?

[29:47] Or am I reading too deeply into it?

[29:50] No, I think you have some.

[29:51] It's impossible.

[29:52] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[29:53] Now, meanwhile, she – the disc that had the program, Mozart's Ghost on it, has been destroyed by the –

[29:59] The hottest band on the internet.

[30:00] Has been destroyed by the salt water.

[30:02] But she did manage to hold on to Jack's wallet that has a few clues and passwords and crap like that in it.

[30:09] So she's still in the game.

[30:10] She can still figure things out.

[30:11] No, the game is a different movie.

[30:13] This is the net.

[30:13] So she figures out – she reaches out to her one safety – her one phone friend, Dr. Alan Champion, her former therapist and former lover, played by Dan's favorite comedian, Dennis Miller.

Elliott Kalan

[30:29] Dan, before you say anything, if he's not your favorite comedian, why do you have his beard?

[30:34] You son of a bitch.

Dan McCoy

[30:37] No, a man that even – I didn't ever love Dennis Miller that much, even before he became a weird crank on the opposite side of the political spectrum of me.

[30:49] But it definitely – like it always seemed to be like, I don't know, if I cram enough words in here, people will think, what a smart comedian.

[30:57] But here, I guess he does –

[31:00] Dan, that's kind of my bit.

[31:00] That's basically our podcast.

[31:01] That's kind of what I do.

Dan McCoy

[31:01] Yeah.

[31:02] Yeah.

[31:02] He does – here he does okay.

[31:05] I would say he puts in a better performance than, say, Bordello of Blood.

[31:09] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[31:10] This was around the time when this came out not too – it was around the same time as – I think it was Murder at 1600.

[31:16] So there was this brief period in movie history where they were like, this movie thriller needs kind of like a wisecracking side character, Dennis Miller.

[31:24] Like he had a monopoly on that.

[31:25] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[31:25] Let's make him real lovable by making him her therapist who had a sexual relationship with her apparently.

Stuart Wellington

[31:34] Who committed adultery to have an affair with her.

[31:37] Yeah.

[31:38] Yeah.

[31:39] But he retains his title.

[31:40] He's still an acting therapist.

[31:42] And he – so she gives him like some snippets of what's going on, but she doesn't fill him in completely.

[31:48] So they have this kind of weird dynamic where he still thinks this is going to be some kind of romantic situation.

[31:53] And she's just trying to get a little bit of safety, but she kind of doesn't want to get him too involved.

[31:58] And he also keeps trying to get her to speak with his friend in the FBI because he thinks that will help.

Dan McCoy

[32:03] I got to say, when she was having so much trouble finding anyone to like say like, yes, this is Angela Bennett, I don't know why she didn't call him.

[32:14] She didn't call him.

[32:15] Gentleman who she knows very well.

[32:18] But also like throughout the film, I understand she's hairy.

[32:21] She doesn't know what's going on.

[32:22] She's having her life stolen from her.

[32:24] But she does not explain things well to people at any point.

Stuart Wellington

[32:28] No, she doesn't.

[32:30] She's been working from home too long, guys.

Elliott Kalan

[32:32] Well, it's like there's all the – I mean maybe that's a good explanation.

[32:34] She lost her people skills because there's – but there's so many movies where someone has a limited amount of time to say like, someone framed me for murder.

[32:42] But I didn't do it.

[32:43] I need your help.

[32:44] But instead they're like, please, you've got to understand.

[32:46] Just listen to me.

[32:47] So here's the thing.

[32:48] I don't have a lot of time.

[32:49] And then the police show up and they've got to run.

[32:51] It's like just say the thing you need.

Dan McCoy

[32:52] Like don't bury the lead.

[32:53] What are you doing?

[32:53] I've got to make some room for some sputtering first.

Stuart Wellington

[32:57] So Angela is having trouble piecing together the conspiracy.

[33:01] And Dennis Miller or I guess Alan Champion is not really helpful in this.

[33:07] They're so close together.

Elliott Kalan

[33:08] How can you tell the difference?

[33:09] He would look in the mirror, Dennis Miller, and he'd say, who am I?

[33:13] Am I Dennis Miller or am I Alan Champion?

[33:15] I've gone too far in the character.

Dan McCoy

[33:17] Stay in character as Alan Champion the whole time they're making the net.

[33:20] He would demand – people call him Alan Champion.

Elliott Kalan

[33:23] He would set up appointments as a therapist and then sleep with the patients just to stay in character.

[33:28] Really, I mean, method acting at its finest.

[33:30] And then that had to like pay for all of those lawsuits after that, the production of the net.

Dan McCoy

[33:34] And they're like, was it worth it to cast Dennis Miller, Erwin Winkler, director of the net?

Elliott Kalan

[33:40] Director of the – here's the funny – it's interesting.

[33:42] I didn't realize, I'd forgotten at least, that Erwin Winkler directed this because Erwin Winkler is a huge producer.

[33:47] Like he's been a huge Hollywood producer.

[33:48] Yeah.

[33:49] He won Best Picture for Rocky.

[33:50] He produced Raging Bull.

[33:51] He produced The Right Stuff.

[33:52] He produced Goodfellas.

[33:53] Like he's – he produced They Shoot Horses, Don't They?

[33:56] Like he's a really amazing producer.

[33:58] Not a great director it turns out.

[34:01] But that's okay.

[34:01] Everyone has their –

[34:02] What else did he do?

[34:04] Let's see what else.

[34:05] He did the remake of Night in the City with Robert De Niro.

[34:09] His last – the last movie directed was Home of the Brave, which I have not seen.

[34:14] Starring Samuel L. Jackson, Jessica Biel, a number of other people.

Dan McCoy

[34:17] Recognized as a movie.

Stuart Wellington

[34:18] Yeah, Home of the Brave sounds like the name of a movie that could be about anything.

[34:23] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[34:24] If you told me that was a movie, I'd be like, yeah, I believe you.

[34:26] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[34:27] Sure.

Elliott Kalan

[34:28] His name is attached to the Creed movies, but I wonder if that's just because he produced the Rocky movies.

[34:33] I don't know if he actually was involved in the Creed, but maybe he was.

Stuart Wellington

[34:36] Yeah, who knows?

[34:37] So because she doesn't – she reaches out to a – because Alan Champion is not well-versed in cyber crimes,

[34:46] she reaches out to her friend Cyber Bob from the chat room and they agree to meet in real life.

Elliott Kalan

[34:50] Because her friend Crimes Bob was busy.

[34:52] Yeah.

[34:52] Exactly.

Stuart Wellington

[34:53] So on her way, Alan Champion gets – goes into anaphylactic shock after taking the – he's been chomping down pills.

[35:04] Turns out his prescription was messed up and they gave him penicillin, something he's allergic to.

[35:09] Which –

[35:09] Computers.

[35:10] Look, I know that you're not necessarily –

[35:12] Computers.

Dan McCoy

[35:12] Ooh.

[35:13] You're not necessarily going to look at the bottle every time, you know, if you trust that it's the correct thing.

[35:20] But it does say penicillin on the side, which I thought was funny.

Stuart Wellington

[35:25] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[35:26] The computer analyzed Alan Champion realized his greatest weakness was penicillin, so it gave it to him.

[35:31] And reading bottles.

[35:32] So, yeah.

[35:33] So he is –

[35:34] He can't read.

[35:35] That's his big weakness.

[35:36] He's a therapist who can't read.

[35:37] Yeah.

[35:37] So she has to leave him.

[35:39] He's admitted to the hospital.

[35:40] Angela leaves him so that she can go meet with her hacker friend.

[35:44] Unfortunately, unbeknownst to her, Jack Devlin has waylaid Cyber Bob, probably killed him.

[35:51] And when they go –

Elliott Kalan

[35:52] This is one of those movies where the fixer who is tracking someone is just murdering people left and right and leaving a trail of bodies.

[35:59] And then when it's time to get to the person he has to kill, he is coming up with reason after reason not to kill her.

[36:05] Which –

[36:06] I wish –

Stuart Wellington

[36:07] I kind of wish they'd leaned more into it because there's like –

[36:11] When he ambushes her at the Santa Monica Pier, which is the scariest place it appears to meet somebody.

[36:18] There's like steam shooting out of everywhere.

[36:21] There's like monsters.

Elliott Kalan

[36:22] Bright lights.

[36:23] There's noises.

[36:24] It's a bad place to go.

[36:25] And there's a guy in what is it, like a big bunny costume.

[36:28] He's just fucking people.

[36:30] And that is the scariest person in the whole movie.

[36:32] He's way scarier than Jeremy Northam in this one.

[36:34] And just this bunny who's going, come on, dance with me.

[36:37] Dance with me.

[36:38] And grabbing people's bodies.

Stuart Wellington

[36:40] Ugh.

[36:40] And now we don't know if we can believe him, but he does say that like he has genuine affection for her.

[36:47] Which I kind of wish the movie – I feel like the movie would have been more interesting if it had – not to be like Monday morning quarterback.

[36:52] But I feel like it would have been more interesting if they like –

[36:54] Not to be 28 years later quarterback.

[36:58] Yeah.

[36:58] No, but I agree.

[36:59] I think if they –

[36:59] If they leaned into it and he was like genuinely conflicted and he was trying to find ways to get her to come over to their side and not have to kill her.

Elliott Kalan

[37:08] Yes.

[37:09] Or even if he was – if his obsession with her was – just felt more emotionally rich.

[37:14] Like you could get into like weird kind of like De Palma or Cronenberg type territory or something like that.

[37:19] Yes, please.

[37:19] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[37:20] Yes, please.

[37:21] Like a good movie.

[37:22] Yep.

[37:24] Yeah, like if this movie had been made by a real sicko, it would have been good.

[37:28] If only the late Cormac McCarthy could have written this thing.

[37:31] No.

[37:31] That would have been really fucked up.

[37:34] So she manages – he ambushes her, but she manages to slip away thanks to a man in a bunny suit and a carousel.

Dan McCoy

[37:42] The unsung hero who Ellie was just vilifying.

[37:45] You're right.

Elliott Kalan

[37:46] I take it all back, bunny man.

[37:47] You were right.

[37:48] You saved a woman's life with your molestational antics as you used other people's bodies like puppets.

Dan McCoy

[37:55] And your famous Echo.

[37:58] Echo the bunny man.

Stuart Wellington

[37:59] She goes to check on Alan.

[38:00] I thought you meant Echo the dolphin.

[38:02] Mm-hmm.

[38:02] And his bunny man.

[38:06] She goes to check on Alan.

[38:08] Unfortunately, Alan has been given the wrong medication and he has died.

[38:12] Computers again.

[38:15] First you're wearing tennis shoes and now this.

Elliott Kalan

[38:17] They did it to him twice too.

[38:19] First they got him the penicillin thing.

[38:21] Then they changed the computers again to say that he was in diabetic shock.

[38:24] And so they gave him the wrong medicine.

[38:26] And what can you do?

[38:27] Well, standard block does the only thing you can do.

[38:29] Push a computer monitor off a desk and then walk out unreprimanded for doing that.

[38:34] And weirdly enough, that doesn't –

[38:35] He's mad at computers.

[38:35] Yeah.

[38:36] It doesn't stop the problem.

Stuart Wellington

[38:37] And it's not the computer's fault, to be honest.

[38:39] People are doing stuff with the computers.

[38:40] It's just a tool.

[38:41] Yeah, you know.

[38:42] Yeah.

[38:42] Filled with rage and sadness, she takes Alan Champion's car up Pacific Coast Highway 1, baby.

[38:48] Probably past our friend Chris's house.

[38:49] And then she gets pulled over.

[38:52] She gets pulled over by the police because, of course, their computer says that she's stolen that car.

[38:58] She's a criminal at large.

[39:00] So she is arrested and taken to jail.

[39:03] We catch up with her shortly afterwards while she's being interviewed.

[39:06] And she finally pieces it all together that these hackers are actually working together with the gatekeeper – what?

[39:17] Computer security company.

[39:18] Computer security company.

Dan McCoy

[39:20] Which gets, like, so much play in the movie.

[39:22] Like, it's so funny to me that the, like, the public defender that she talks to while she's in jail is like, there's no way they could do that.

[39:30] It's protected by the gatekeeper security that we just put in.

Elliott Kalan

[39:32] People talk about the gatekeeper security plan on this like it was Coca-Cola.

[39:36] Every news story that you see on a TV mentions gatekeeper security and the head of the company.

[39:42] Like, there's no hotter brand in the world of the net than gatekeeper security software.

[39:47] It's just – it's on everybody's lips all the time.

Stuart Wellington

[39:49] Like the public defender read her ad copy before going in with her.

Dan McCoy

[39:54] You know, we remember when that craze for the McAfee antivirus, you know, swept the nations.

[39:59] We had McAfee posters above our beds and all that stuff.

[40:02] Oh, sure.

Elliott Kalan

[40:02] We all remember the Norton for president campaign that briefly flared up and then fizzled out.

[40:07] Yeah.

[40:07] Mm-hmm.

[40:08] So, she is sprung from jail.

Dan McCoy

[40:12] I support Nort with the buttons.

[40:14] I'm sorry.

[40:15] I support Nort.

[40:16] Took me a while.

[40:16] I apologize for interrupting.

[40:18] It took me a while.

Elliott Kalan

[40:18] And then it was avoid the Noids, support Nort.

[40:21] It was a complicated time.

[40:23] Yeah.

[40:23] There were a lot of brands going around.

[40:24] There were a lot of Noids to avoid.

[40:27] A lot of Noids to avoid.

Stuart Wellington

[40:29] So, she is sprung from jail by Alan's friend in the FBI.

Elliott Kalan

[40:33] Oh, you could not step out the door without having to run from a Noid back in the 90s.

[40:37] It was rough.

[40:38] Yeah, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[40:38] The ground – yeah.

[40:39] They were all over the ground.

[40:41] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[40:43] The ground.

[40:45] Thankfully, the Noids were –

[40:46] Swarms of Noids.

[40:47] Swarms of Noids.

[40:48] Just these Noid hives everywhere.

[40:49] Luckily, the cloned dinosaurs that are everywhere ate those Noids.

[40:52] But now we've got to put up with the dinosaurs lying around on the ground.

[40:55] So, you know, is the cure better than the disease?

[40:57] I'm not so sure.

[40:59] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[40:59] It's horrible.

[41:00] Real swallow the fly situation.

Elliott Kalan

[41:02] And don't even get me started on those Dino Noids.

[41:04] Oh, man.

[41:05] They're so cute.

[41:06] They're so frustrating.

[41:07] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[41:08] Delicious, though.

Elliott Kalan

[41:09] Yeah, they get into the crawl space of the house and you can't get them out and they

[41:12] make those noises in the middle of the night when you're trying to sleep.

[41:14] The cure was so happy earlier.

[41:16] If you catch them, it's good eating.

Stuart Wellington

[41:18] That seems mad.

[41:19] Yeah, you wouldn't want to be a pizza in those times, would you?

[41:23] Yeah.

[41:23] Oh, no.

[41:24] You had a constant chance of being ruined.

[41:25] Yeah.

[41:26] Uh-huh.

[41:27] So, she's sprung from jail.

Elliott Kalan

[41:28] Guys, when are we going to get a series of movies that are the IP from pizza brands

[41:32] and it's all one big crossover universe where the Noid and Little Caesar and Papa John

[41:36] are just fighting, I don't know.

Stuart Wellington

[41:38] Elliot, bitch, the writers are on strike.

[41:40] Stop pitching ideas.

[41:41] I know.

[41:41] I'm sorry.

Elliott Kalan

[41:41] I shouldn't be pitching ideas.

[41:42] I don't want to scab.

[41:43] I don't want to scab.

[41:43] I apologize.

Stuart Wellington

[41:44] Good points, too.

[41:45] Get out of here.

[41:47] So.

[41:47] Cut it out.

[41:48] She is sprung from jail by Alan's friend from the FBI who has a lot of questions about

[41:56] the disc mainly.

[41:58] And she pretty quickly realizes that this is not Alan's friend.

[42:03] This is – or if it is, he's working for the hackers.

[42:07] Yes.

[42:08] So, she takes control of the wheel and she crashes the car into Jack's car, which was

[42:13] weird.

[42:14] I don't know why it was parked right there.

[42:15] That was –

[42:16] Very convenient.

Elliott Kalan

[42:17] It's a movie with a number of different convenient coincidences, but that is potentially the

[42:21] most convenient coincidence, the whole movie, that Jack happens to be lurking by in his

[42:25] car and that they happen to be going by at that point.

[42:27] It seems like at that point the movie is helping Angela Bennett along.

[42:30] It's like you need a push.

[42:32] Let's get out of the rut we're in.

[42:33] Let's just get it moving.

[42:35] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[42:35] So, she crashes the car, knocking out the FBI agent.

[42:38] She runs away on foot and escapes using a drawbridge and hides out in a motel where the news

[42:45] informs her that not only is Gatekeeper taking a big play and taking over all of the government

[42:50] security, but also Ruth Marks is wanted for murdering a guy gangland style, which she

[42:59] didn't do, not to spoil anything.

[43:04] Okay.

[43:04] So, she sneaks back into the office of Cathedral Software.

[43:12] Nobody recognized her because, as we said, she'd been working remotely.

Elliott Kalan

[43:15] Did we mention already, she tried to call the company at one point and she was patched

[43:20] through to a woman taking on the role of Angela Bennett.

[43:23] One of the hackers has impersonated her so that the people at Cathedral think that Angela

[43:27] Bennett is now no longer working remotely, but working in the office.

[43:29] Because, guys, it's time to stop working remotely and time to get back to the office.

[43:33] Let's do it, everybody.

[43:34] Oh, no.

[43:34] There's just a certain creative friction that emerges when people are in the same space together

[43:39] that you just don't get at home.

[43:41] Yeah.

[43:42] By the way, that's me, a guy who owns several office space buildings, saying partially, it's

[43:47] time to get back to the office.

[43:48] Let's rent them and let me jack those rent prices away.

[43:50] So, there is a fake Angela Bennett in the office.

Dan McCoy

[43:53] I enjoyed this little twist for thriller logic of, like, you know, having this evil Angie Bennett

[44:01] who looks, you know, sort of vaguely like Sandra Bullock taking the place and whatever.

[44:05] Like, I like it in movie logic.

[44:08] In real life logic, I'm like, why do they bother?

[44:11] Why do they even bother?

[44:12] Exactly.

[44:12] Putting this fake woman in there.

Elliott Kalan

[44:14] Now, and guys, how dumb am I that I just realized that it's Angela versus Devlin?

[44:19] This is a smart movie.

[44:20] This is a very subtle movie.

[44:22] I wonder who the good guy and the bad guy is.

[44:24] Anyway, I feel stupid that I just noticed that now, but continues to.

Stuart Wellington

[44:28] And the movie is even more explicit with it because her little AVI in the chat room is an angel.

[44:35] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[44:36] And Jack Devlin keeps saying, ain't I a little devil?

[44:39] He, he, he, he.

[44:40] Uh-huh.

Stuart Wellington

[44:41] And it's a screen grab from the movie Little Nicky.

Elliott Kalan

[44:46] It amazingly prescient, this movie.

[44:47] You guys are laughing because that movie is so funny.

[44:50] Yeah.

[44:50] That's why we're laughing.

Dan McCoy

[44:51] I mean, AVI enjoys the way it supports Popeye's chicken.

Elliott Kalan

[44:55] I don't know if I, I enjoy the existence of Popeye's chicken being acknowledged, but I wish

[44:59] it had a better movie to, to, to promote it.

[45:01] I remember when I was in college, one of my professors, my screenwriting professors was

[45:04] so convinced Little Nicky would be an enormous hit.

[45:07] He was like, the script is hilarious.

[45:09] It's Adam Sandler.

[45:10] He's a box office champ.

[45:11] They were shooting it in New York at the time I was in college.

[45:13] He's like, you should go watch them shoot this movie if you see them on the street.

[45:17] Cause this is going to be a huge hit movie and you're going to be able to tell people

[45:20] that you saw them shooting it.

[45:21] And then the movie came out and didn't do very well.

[45:22] And I feel like he maybe should have had his, his teaching license removed to that point.

[45:27] Yeah.

[45:28] No, he was a good professor otherwise, but.

Dan McCoy

[45:30] Oh, he was tenured.

[45:31] You know, that's the problem with the tenure.

[45:34] You can't get rid of these Little Nicky apologists.

[45:38] I want to be very clear.

Elliott Kalan

[45:39] I support tenure.

[45:40] You don't support Little Nicky, but you do support tenure.

[45:43] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[45:43] Yeah.

[45:43] So this is where she finds her former now deceased coworker, Dale's desk.

[45:50] And she uses his computer and she gets the virus that she mailed him.

[45:56] That's going to be important later, everybody.

[45:58] And she uses the computer and her hacking skills to identify where her double is.

[46:05] And then after identifying that, she uses the computer to create a fake fire alarm and get

[46:12] everyone out of the building.

[46:14] Now, I also want to point out, I don't know if you noticed this.

[46:16] This is all happening at night.

[46:18] Feels pretty late in a work day for everybody to be at the office.

[46:21] Oh, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[46:21] It was very, yeah, it was very confusing what time of day this was supposed to be.

[46:26] Now, you could say the software industry, the video game industry especially, I assume

[46:30] the other software industry, they push people to work very long hours, very hard.

[46:35] And so it possibly could be all there.

[46:37] But it seems to be a bustling daytime office.

[46:40] It's not like, there's nothing about the office that says this is at night right now.

[46:43] And also, when she goes to the convention center, the convention is in full bloom.

[46:48] So it also feels like at night, usually conventions kind of shut down for a little bit and people

[46:52] go out and have drinks and have affairs and so forth.

[46:55] Yeah, and then they come back the next day, newly refreshed by their hangovers and their

[47:00] guilt.

[47:02] But I guess it's San Francisco.

[47:03] It's a nighttime city.

[47:04] Everything's always going on at night.

[47:06] City that never sleeps, San Francisco.

[47:08] The big easy.

[47:09] The red planet.

Dan McCoy

[47:11] The big chatter bowl.

Stuart Wellington

[47:13] City abroad shoulders, they call it.

Dan McCoy

[47:16] Okay.

[47:16] Hog butcher to the world.

Stuart Wellington

[47:19] So now that her double is not at her desk, she manages to slip in there, jump on that computer,

[47:25] log on.

[47:26] She tries to fix her data.

[47:30] Unfortunately, she's going to need mainframe access for that shit.

[47:34] So instead, she downloads the information onto a disk.

[47:38] She is out of there.

[47:38] She's got to get to that mainframe, baby.

Dan McCoy

[47:40] She takes a folder titled evidence, exculpatory evidence, and she copies it.

Stuart Wellington

[47:46] Yeah, I think she even like, she takes, she prints out the evidence against them.

[47:52] Yeah.

[47:52] Yeah, that's awesome.

[47:53] Okay.

[47:53] So then she's fucking out of there.

[47:56] They try and track her down.

[47:59] She finds out who's into it.

[48:05] It's the CEO of Gatekeeper.

[48:06] He is the head of the hacking organization.

Elliott Kalan

[48:09] Yada, yada, yada.

[48:09] The head of the Praetorians.

[48:11] These gatekeepers, these hackers are called the Praetorians.

[48:13] And Greg, the gatekeeper CEO, is the head of them.

[48:17] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[48:17] So she runs away from the bad guys.

[48:19] She uses a healthcare protest.

[48:21] Which is usually a good strategy.

Elliott Kalan

[48:23] Do not run towards the bad guys.

[48:24] You want to run away from them.

[48:25] She runs away from them.

[48:26] And she uses-

Dan McCoy

[48:27] Unless you have like a spear that you're like running, like you're going to skewer them

[48:30] with and they don't have any like guns.

[48:32] No, no.

Elliott Kalan

[48:32] You want to use that as a pole vault to get farther away from the bad guys.

Stuart Wellington

[48:37] It might give you a charging bonus, like a bonus to your strength characteristics.

[48:40] Oh, okay.

[48:41] So you might want to charge them.

Elliott Kalan

[48:42] Do you have double action?

[48:43] Can you take two actions in this turn?

[48:45] In this case, yeah, I think so.

[48:47] Oh, okay.

[48:47] Oh, then by all means.

[48:48] Listen to Dan.

Stuart Wellington

[48:49] So, yeah.

[48:51] So she runs away from them.

[48:52] She uses a healthcare protest.

[48:53] Again, prescient.

[48:56] Luckily, healthcare was fixed shortly after the making of this.

Elliott Kalan

[48:58] Yeah, they call that the net effect.

[49:00] Yeah.

[49:01] That the healthcare was fixed.

Stuart Wellington

[49:02] And then she hides out in a computer convention.

[49:04] Did she know there was a computer convention there?

[49:06] She did.

Elliott Kalan

[49:07] No, they mentioned it earlier that there's a big computer convention at the Moscone Center.

[49:11] Again, it is a huge convenient coincidence that it's happening at this time.

[49:16] But they did mention it earlier.

Stuart Wellington

[49:17] So she finds a computer terminal to use.

[49:22] Everybody's computer crazy in this convention.

[49:24] She jumps on.

[49:25] She emails all the evidence to the FBI.

[49:28] And then right before.

[49:29] The real FBI.

[49:30] The real FBI.

[49:31] Yeah, she hopes.

[49:33] And right before Devlin's able to grab her.

[49:36] She swaps disks with the virus disk.

[49:40] So that when Devlin is like, ha ha.

[49:43] All I have to do is hit escape to get out of this program.

[49:45] That actually triggers the virus.

[49:47] And then we see.

[49:49] We see the screen look like somebody poured acid on it.

[49:52] And it all starts to melt.

[49:53] And like goo starts spitting out of the.

[49:56] Yeah.

[49:56] And like smoke starts shooting out of the computer.

Dan McCoy

[49:58] Of lies that they have shellacked over the internet.

[50:01] Or is melting away.

[50:03] Revealing the previous truths.

[50:04] Oh, it's great.

[50:05] I love it.

[50:05] Yeah, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[50:06] Okay.

[50:06] But she manages to slip away in the crowd.

[50:08] She is chased.

[50:10] They find the like.

[50:11] She is not chased.

[50:12] She slept with the bad guy earlier.

[50:14] Oh, yeah.

[50:15] You're right.

[50:15] Actually, I messed up.

[50:17] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[50:18] Killer that I guess.

[50:19] She is sex positive and owning it.

Stuart Wellington

[50:20] And there's nothing wrong with that.

[50:21] Yeah.

[50:22] So she slips away into the darkened steam filled back tunnels.

[50:28] Of the camped.

[50:29] He does catwalks.

Elliott Kalan

[50:30] The Moscone Center, like all large buildings in the 1980s and 90s.

[50:34] He has filled with shadowy catwalks.

[50:36] And just random steam jets and barrels and boxes.

[50:39] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[50:39] I have expected her to walk in on Matrix and Bennett fighting.

[50:45] Commando.

[50:46] That was a movie I watched recently.

Elliott Kalan

[50:48] And it's good.

[50:49] What a fun movie.

Stuart Wellington

[50:50] Okay.

[50:50] So Devlin thinks he's got her in his sights.

[50:56] He shoots her.

[50:57] Turns out he shot the wrong Angela Bennett.

[50:59] That's right.

[50:59] He shot the double.

[51:01] Whoops.

[51:02] That doesn't matter.

[51:03] Later on, he tracks down the real Angela, who then bonks him on the head with a fire extinguisher.

[51:07] He falls off a catwalk and dies.

[51:09] Oh, no.

[51:11] Turns out.

Elliott Kalan

[51:12] And she, I mean, she is in danger because he's likely to kill her.

[51:15] But he is not actively threatening her at the moment.

[51:18] So she just kills him.

[51:19] Yeah.

[51:19] She just hits him hard enough to kill him.

[51:21] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[51:22] Yeah.

[51:22] He's pushed her too much.

[51:23] And to quote the name of a Jennifer Lopez movie, she's had enough.

Dan McCoy

[51:28] Mm-hmm.

[51:29] Mm-hmm.

[51:30] She pushed her too much and, like Gizmo, putting a Rambo headband on and shooting a spider.

[51:39] Yeah.

[51:40] Just like Gizmo.

Elliott Kalan

[51:40] She dipped a pencil in some whiteout and lit it on fire and then used a little paperclip cross, bone arrow to shoot it at him.

Stuart Wellington

[51:50] Well, the audience cheers.

[51:51] Okay.

[51:51] So Jack's dead.

[51:53] Flash forward.

[51:54] Angela now lives with her mom.

[51:56] All the bad guys are in jail.

[51:59] She lives with her mom.

[52:00] She works from home, I think.

[52:01] Everything's better.

[52:02] But then in the corner of the screen, we see a little pie symbol and a cursor goes over and clicks on it.

[52:07] Uh-oh.

[52:08] Uh-oh.

[52:08] The movie was the net.

[52:10] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[52:10] Yeah.

[52:11] So that was the net, guys.

Stuart Wellington

[52:12] I think I did a pretty good job somewhere.

Dan McCoy

[52:14] Yeah, I think.

[52:14] You did a great job, Stuart.

[52:15] You did a great job.

[52:16] You know, Elliot kept interrupting and.

[52:21] Elliot interrupted somebody?

[52:22] I kept feeling like, well, Elliot is safe across the country and I'm in the room with Stuart and I can't tell whether the slow burn frustration is a bit.

[52:31] Yeah.

[52:31] Or whether he's going to suddenly snap.

Stuart Wellington

[52:33] Yeah.

[52:34] Dan looked over.

[52:35] He saw the veins in my forearms bulging under my skin and tattoos and hair.

[52:41] And he's like, what is going on?

[52:42] Is Stuart going to tear, rend me apart like his garments?

[52:47] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[52:49] Like your pre-rended garments.

[52:52] Hey, let's do our final judgments about the net.

[52:55] Whether it's a good bad movie, a bad bad movie, or a movie we kind of like.

[53:00] I'm going to say it's a movie I kind of like.

[53:03] I wouldn't say it's a bad movie so much as a dumb one.

[53:08] Like there's.

[53:11] Like I love this kind.

[53:12] We don't get that many of this kind of old fashioned thriller anymore.

[53:17] Where it's essentially, you know, innocent person on the run trying to clear their name.

[53:23] Yada, yada, yada.

[53:24] With what at the time was a thin layer of relevance slathered on top.

Stuart Wellington

[53:30] It's like The Fugitive.

Dan McCoy

[53:31] Yeah, it's not particularly thrilling, I have to say.

[53:35] It's a little pokey.

[53:39] I don't, you know, Dennis Miller, I don't love seeing him in this movie.

[53:44] He's not that great.

[53:46] I feel like when I first saw this movie, he brought a little bit of like.

[53:50] He did bring some zazz.

[53:51] It was a different energy.

Stuart Wellington

[53:53] But now I have different feelings toward him.

Dan McCoy

[53:58] Yeah, I mean, it's just kind of a silly movie.

[54:03] But it's a movie that is really kind of enjoyable on that old, like this would have been on TNT on Sunday afternoon kind of way.

[54:16] I feel like there's something else I wanted to, a point I wanted to make that I forgot.

[54:19] Oh, I know what it was.

[54:20] This is just like a side thing when I was reading about this movie.

[54:25] Apparently, the director originally got the, like employed the writers to write this movie.

[54:31] And his original idea was just going to be about a woman hiring someone who like falsified resumes to get a job or something.

[54:42] And it seemed like, and then they were looking into like stuff and they're like, oh, this identity theft angle seems more interesting.

[54:50] I have no idea what that original movie.

[54:51] It doesn't sound like it was a thriller so much.

[54:53] It's just like a half-baked notion.

[54:58] Yeah, it was like a bad, can you ever forgive me?

[55:02] Yeah.

[55:03] Like, can you imagine someone lying to get a job?

[55:07] Anyway, that's what I have to say.

[55:08] Stuart, what do you think?

Stuart Wellington

[55:10] Yeah, this is a movie I kind of like.

[55:11] I remember enjoying it in the theater and it was fun to watch now.

[55:14] I mean, obviously, a big part of it is I'm a sucker for all those graphics, baby.

[55:20] But, yeah, it's, there's, like, the fact that Sandra Bullock is very charming and she carries a lot of the weight of this movie.

[55:32] Is it great?

[55:33] No.

[55:34] But it is that, like, that easy thriller.

[55:39] Yeah.

[55:39] Cozy.

[55:39] It goes down smooth.

[55:40] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[55:41] Yeah, yeah.

[55:42] Yeah, it's kind of easy watching, easy listening thriller.

[55:45] I would say I don't think it's a, it's not a movie that you should need to go out of your way to see.

[55:51] But I definitely, it's a movie I kind of like, but more for nostalgia's sake than anything else.

[55:55] Because as Dan said, you don't see a lot of these anymore.

[55:57] As Stuart said, you got those great old school computer, fake computer graphics.

[56:01] Not even old school computer graphics, but old school Hollywood fake computer graphics.

[56:05] And that is worth a lot to me.

[56:07] But for the young people out there listening, I want you to find the entertainment that's relevant to you in its cheesiness.

[56:15] Not the entertainment that's relevant to me.

Stuart Wellington

[56:17] I feel like part of the fun for a young person would be like, they did what?

Dan McCoy

[56:21] Yeah.

[56:21] That's how, that's what a pizza looked like?

[56:23] This would be so baffling.

[56:24] I feel like someone who only remembers a time when the internet was the major dominant force in the world.

Elliott Kalan

[56:33] It kind of makes me, in like five years, I kind of want to show it to my son and be like, can you believe this is what the internet was like?

[56:39] Like, you're so used to having the internet exactly like you're saying, be everywhere.

[56:42] Be everything.

[56:43] You can do anything with it.

[56:44] And it looks professional and shiny and like, it used to be like this and people didn't know what to make of it.

[56:49] And they thought maybe Russell Crowe would come out of the internet and start murdering people.

[56:53] Yeah.

[56:53] They didn't know.

Dan McCoy

[56:53] You're going to lawnmower me in your son.

[56:56] Anyone who carried a computer around was a weirdo.

[56:59] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[57:00] It's a, yeah, it's a, it's a kind of snapshot of a more innocent time.

[57:04] And I think it's valuable for that.

Dan McCoy

[57:05] So, you know what helps you, you know, relax when you yearn for a more innocent time?

[57:14] Maybe a microdose gummy.

[57:16] Our show today is sponsored by microdose gummies.

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[57:27] Maybe you're looking for an entry-level dose of THC.

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[57:36] Maybe you're used to professional levels of THC.

[57:43] But just want to take it back for a softer experience.

[57:46] Microdose gummies might be good for you.

[57:48] I, you know, we, we got, uh, some of these gummies.

[57:54] I know that Stuart also uses them.

[57:55] They're an enjoyable thing to, I don't know, if you got time at the end of the day that isn't going to make a lot of demands on you, this is a good way to relax, watch some TV, chill out.

[58:10] Go to sleep.

[58:11] I like it.

[58:13] Microdose is available nationwide.

[58:14] To learn more about microdosing THC, go to microdose.com and use code FLOP, that is F-L-O-P, to get free shipping and 30% off your first order.

[58:24] Links can be found in the show description.

[58:26] But again, that is microdose.com, code FLOP.

Elliott Kalan

[58:29] Dan, we've also got another sponsor today.

[58:31] Look, if there's anything.

[58:32] What?

[58:33] I know it's terrible news.

[58:35] I apologize.

[58:37] This isn't how I want you to find out.

[58:39] If there's anything the movie The Net has shown me, it's that the internet is a powerful tool that can make or break human lives.

[58:44] And I know I want me a piece of that, but I don't know anything about hacking or programming.

[58:48] Luckily, there's Squarespace, the all-in-one platform that empowers everyone from Sandra Bullock-level neuromancers to Dennis Miller-level meat space noobs to build their brand, create their passion project, or just stake out a place for themselves in the digital frontier.

[59:02] Put together a beautiful website, sell stuff, engage with people.

[59:05] Look, if you want to do it on the net, Squarespace can help you.

[59:08] They've got all the tools you need, like e-commerce templates, a simple checkout process, and secure payment systems.

[59:13] You can get in-depth analytics to see exactly who's using your website, when, where, and how.

[59:18] And they've also got the Fluid Engine, a next-generation website design system that also has a cool name that sounds like a car made out of a waterbed.

[59:26] So boot up the mainframe, hack the planet, and jack on in to squarespace.com slash flop for a free trial.

[59:33] And when you're ready to launch, use offer code FLOP to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[59:39] That's squarespace.com slash flop with offer code FLOP for 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

Stuart Wellington

[59:46] We also have a Jumbotron, and it goes like this.

[59:52] Want to hear a podcast all about 184 choose-your-own-adventure books?

[59:59] Huh?

[1:00:00] Well, librarian and best friends Abby and Peter, last names redacted, are doing it anyway.

[1:00:06] Join them as they escape from dinosaurs, vampires, and that one time Nazis controlled dragons for some reason.

[1:00:15] It's Choose Your Own Book Club, a choose-your-own-adventure podcast.

[1:00:19] New episodes of Choose Your Own Book Club drop bi-weekly.

[1:00:23] So make your mother proud and try new things.

[1:00:26] And maybe call her more.

[1:00:28] So listen to Choose Your Own Book Club on all podcast platforms.

S4

[1:00:37] You there!

[1:00:38] Have you considered listening to the Beef and Dairy Network, an award-winning comedy show in the form of a newsletter podcast for the beef and dairy industries?

[1:00:44] Well, maybe you should.

[1:00:46] And why don't you try our most recent episode, episode 99, which features American man Paul F. Tompkins playing Queen Elizabeth II's former personal beef sommelier.

[1:00:54] Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II and I laying on the floor of her bedroom, just helplessly laughing till tears run down our faces as corgis are jumping on us, over us, licking us.

[1:01:07] That is a day that I will treasure forever until I am executed.

[1:01:12] Find the show at MaximumFun.org.

[1:01:14] I hope there's beef in heaven.

S5

[1:01:16] Hey there, beautiful people.

[1:01:17] I'm Jarrett Hill.

[1:01:18] And I'm Trayville Anderson.

[1:01:19] And we want to know, have you ever had mixed feelings about the things that you love?

[1:01:24] Ooh, maybe about the things that you hate?

[1:01:26] Then Fanta is the show for you.

[1:01:28] Fanta is the podcast for all those complex and complicato conversations about the gray areas in our lives.

S4

[1:01:34] You might have conflicting feelings about Kamala Harris or propaganda or interracial friending.

[1:01:39] Mm-hmm.

S5

[1:01:40] That's all right, because we do too.

[1:01:42] And we get into it every single Thursday.

[1:01:44] Catch this layworthy audio at MaximumFun.org.

[1:01:47] That's MaximumFun.org slash Fanta.

[1:01:50] That's F-A-N-T-I.

[1:01:52] Come get all this good good.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:54] Or this great gray.

Dan McCoy

[1:01:56] We get letters here at the Flophouse.

[1:01:59] Huh?

[1:01:59] For listeners like you.

[1:02:01] Particularly if you're the one who wrote these letters.

[1:02:04] Then it really is for listeners like you.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:06] The one most like you in the world.

[1:02:08] And this first one is-

[1:02:10] You know what?

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:10] You remind me of you.

[1:02:11] Everything about you reminds me of you.

Dan McCoy

[1:02:13] Classic Groucho.

[1:02:15] Except you.

[1:02:16] Except you.

[1:02:17] This first one is from Melissa.

[1:02:19] Letter, that is.

[1:02:20] It goes, hello, floppers.

[1:02:22] Melissa Letter?

[1:02:23] I recently learned.

[1:02:27] I've been doing this for 16 years.

[1:02:29] I recently learned that my neighbor is a self-published book author,

[1:02:33] and he gave me a copy of his latest book, Patron Saints of the Living Dead.

[1:02:37] Oh.

[1:02:38] I was initially confused because the book treats voodoo and zombies as historical fact,

[1:02:42] but when Dr. Henry Jones Jr. was mentioned as a real person,

[1:02:46] I figured out that the book was pulling characters from various films

[1:02:49] and creating a relatively cohesive universe from them.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:53] Oh, very Anno Dracula.

[1:02:55] Does the same thing.

Dan McCoy

[1:02:56] And I understood almost none of the references

[1:02:58] and still enjoyed the pulpy fiction of mad scientists creating zombies.

[1:03:02] My question is this.

[1:03:04] What is your favorite zombie flick?

[1:03:06] And do you prefer zombies to be created by an infectious bite

[1:03:10] or by the science and magic of a zombie master?

[1:03:13] Thanks for flopping, Melissa.

[1:03:18] Well, I best know the George Romero style zombie,

[1:03:23] and I'm less familiar with sort of the drawing on voodoo folklore zombie.

[1:03:30] So I don't know if it's a preference, but it's what I'm most used to.

[1:03:34] And my favorite of those is Return of the Living Dead,

[1:03:38] sort of the punk rock zombie comedy.

[1:03:42] It has the most full frontal on it, too.

[1:03:44] It also has the most full frontal,

[1:03:45] although reports vary over whether that's a Merkin.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:50] What did I have to say?

[1:03:52] I don't know.

[1:03:53] Because you're the host of The Merkin Report with me, Dan McCoy.

Dan McCoy

[1:03:56] Merkin Muffley.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:59] McCoy on Merkins.

[1:04:00] They're like, why?

[1:04:02] Ever since Clear Channel bought our local television news station,

[1:04:06] we've had to run these Merkin reports with Dan McCoy,

[1:04:08] McCoy on Merkins.

[1:04:09] I don't like it.

[1:04:10] Merkin to Merkins, jerkin to Merkins.

[1:04:12] This is time we should be spending talking about local important issues,

[1:04:17] but instead it has to be this national Merkin coverage.

Dan McCoy

[1:04:20] My bosses are trying to get me to start shirking the Merkin,

[1:04:24] and I want you to call in and tell them that you want more Merkin reports.

[1:04:30] Wow, that was weird.

[1:04:32] No, I like that movie a lot.

[1:04:36] I've ruined everyone's opinion of me.

[1:04:38] No, it's fine.

[1:04:39] No, no, Dan.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:41] Our opinion of you is very low.

[1:04:43] It's okay.

Dan McCoy

[1:04:44] In a more traditional zombie mode, I like, I walked with a zombie.

[1:04:52] Elliotkin, is that from the 40s?

[1:04:55] Yeah, that's from the 40s.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:56] That's of the Val Luton produced RKO horrors from the 40s.

Dan McCoy

[1:05:00] Yeah.

[1:05:01] A great one.

[1:05:02] What do you guys think?

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:03] My favorite movie, zombie movie, is probably Dead Alive or Brain Dead, depending on what country you watch in.

[1:05:14] Peter Jackson's foray into zombie cinema.

[1:05:18] Splatter comedy.

[1:05:19] It is.

[1:05:20] Oh, boy.

[1:05:20] Splomity.

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:20] It is gross.

[1:05:22] Do you like fake blood?

[1:05:24] Because this movie's got a lot of it.

Dan McCoy

[1:05:26] Do you like someone eating porridge that part of an ear has fallen into?

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:30] It's very gross.

[1:05:32] It's rich and creamy.

[1:05:33] And it also, you know, it's a beautiful story of a son coming to grips with his overbearing mother.

[1:05:39] It's really wonderful.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:41] Yeah.

[1:05:41] And now in that one, it's the bite comes from being bitten by a monkey, right?

[1:05:45] Yeah.

[1:05:45] The zombie.

[1:05:46] Zombie.

[1:05:47] Yeah.

[1:05:47] Yep.

[1:05:48] So I, you know, Dan mentioned the Romero movies earlier.

[1:05:51] I've seen, I've watched zombie stuff far and wide.

[1:05:54] And I think to me, it is still the Romero stuff that I like the best.

[1:05:57] I still love the original Night of the Living Dead.

[1:05:59] I love a lot of the Living Dead movies from that series.

[1:06:03] Uh, they can get a little uneven at times, but Night, Dawn, and Day are still three movies

[1:06:09] that I think are great.

[1:06:10] And it's hard for me to think of any that, that surpass that.

[1:06:13] And I prefer an infectious bite causing it rather than there being some kind of zombie master

[1:06:17] because things are scarier to me when they're kind of out of control.

[1:06:21] When there's, when it's just, um, a chaotic system that you're up against or an overwhelming

[1:06:25] thing rather than like a single villain.

[1:06:27] And I remember so well how disappointed I was in Game of Thrones when they revealed that

[1:06:32] all the White Walkers were controlled by just a dude.

[1:06:35] Like just this king of the White Walkers.

[1:06:38] Oh, is that what happens?

Stuart Wellington

[1:06:39] I haven't seen, that's in the show, right?

[1:06:40] Sorry.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:40] In the TV show, there's like, I don't know, in the books, I don't believe there was ever

[1:06:43] any indication of this.

[1:06:45] But in the TV show, there's just like a king of the White Walkers and they kill him and

[1:06:48] all the White Walkers disappear.

[1:06:50] And it's like, well, that was, that was lame.

[1:06:52] So I like it when it's like, I like, I like it when instead of there being a person that

[1:06:57] you can defeat, it's just a lot of creatures crawling around and then they're not fast, but

[1:07:01] they might overwhelm you because there's so many of them and you're going to get tired.

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:04] My pushback is I like when the person controlling them is not doing a very good job, i.e. reanimator.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:12] Yes.

[1:07:12] Well, that's true.

[1:07:13] I mean, that is kind of like the center of the Venn diagram where they're being controlled,

[1:07:17] but there's still a chaotic force.

[1:07:20] Yeah.

[1:07:21] This next letter is from-

[1:07:22] The worst of the zombie movies is Deanimator, where he fails to get the zombies back to

[1:07:26] life.

[1:07:27] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:07:28] Yeah.

[1:07:29] It's just a bunch of static shots of corpses on gurneys.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:33] Yeah.

[1:07:33] And my favorite, actually my favorite one is Danimator, the one about the scientist who created

[1:07:37] Dan.

[1:07:38] Oh.

Dan McCoy

[1:07:39] I call him Dan.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:43] This is from-

[1:07:44] Using cutting edge genetic science, he was able to fertilize an egg, which eventually gestated

[1:07:49] into Dan.

Dan McCoy

[1:07:50] Well, I wouldn't just call my dad my creator if I was literally, anyway.

[1:07:56] I don't-

[1:07:57] No, that's true.

[1:07:57] You have two creators.

[1:07:58] You have two creators.

[1:07:59] Yes.

[1:07:59] At three if you count God.

[1:08:01] Let's give my mom the credit or the blame, depending on how you feel about the things I said earlier

[1:08:07] about Merkins.

[1:08:08] This is from Monty Lastname Withheld, who writes, hello, peaches.

[1:08:14] I just saw Henry VIII in beautiful-

[1:08:16] Oh, sorry.

[1:08:17] I didn't-

[1:08:17] Sorry.

[1:08:18] I said it wrong.

[1:08:18] I also saw Henry VIII in beautiful Ashland.

[1:08:23] Oh, really?

[1:08:24] Perhaps around the same time as Elliot.

[1:08:26] We got cheap seats at a 90-degree angle from the stage, which let us see a lot of theater

[1:08:31] craft we wouldn't have otherwise.

[1:08:34] This is where we disagree.

[1:08:39] It occurred to me that that sort of look behind the scenes is very controlled in movies, appearing as special features or commentary tracks.

[1:08:53] If you could have that kind of behind-the-scenes perspective on any movie, which would it be?

[1:08:59] Yours, Monty, last name withheld.

[1:09:03] When I said this to you guys, I kind of opened it up to just be like, you know, if you had sort of a full access backstage, like if you could roam around, whatever, however you want to take it.

[1:09:16] But, I don't know.

[1:09:18] What do you think?

[1:09:18] I got to think about this because I forgot.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:21] I was going to ask you this question.

[1:09:22] Well, so what I'm going to say is this is, I think, under the influence of – I've been listening to a lot of episodes of the Marx Brothers Council podcast, which is a great podcast by the Marx Brothers.

[1:09:31] And they've really put this – something they talk about a lot is wanting to see how they put their work together and want to see what it was like when they were on stage and things like that.

[1:09:40] And it's really put this excitement in me over the idea that I will never have fulfilled because these sources don't exist of what would it be like to be on set, seeing the Marx Brothers creating a movie and kind of crafting that material.

[1:09:52] But especially in their early movies when this was a new thing for them and they were coming off of this big Broadway success and they were really at the top of their game in terms of being innovative and exciting comedy figures.

[1:10:05] And it dovetails with – I don't know if you guys watched Get Back, the Peter Jackson – speaking of Peter Jackson again, the Peter Jackson Beatles miniseries.

[1:10:13] Yes, I know.

[1:10:13] But I really loved it.

[1:10:16] But I wanted that kind of nonstop kind of fly-on-the-wall access to exactly the same thing, to the Marx Brothers.

[1:10:23] I want to see what it was like to be around them when they were working.

[1:10:26] And I remember when it was over, I was talking to my wife about it, and I was like, I want to see that for the Marx Brothers.

[1:10:32] I want to see that for like Marvel in the 1960s and just watching what it was like for those people to work together on these things.

[1:10:38] So I really wish I could have just kind of like hung around and watched the Marx Brothers doing coconuts or animal crackers or one of their early movies.

Dan McCoy

[1:10:46] You know, having thought, like the thing that comes to mind from what you said just now is I would like to see the Muppet movie where like there's a combination of like those performers,

[1:10:58] those special performers with these characters I love, seeing them, you know, how they operate, how they like would talk to each other as the characters.

[1:11:09] You know, you see these outtakes that are very funny.

[1:11:11] It's just like them staying in character, goofing around.

[1:11:14] But also like just the technical challenge of like how do they do these various things?

[1:11:18] How do you set up a movie?

[1:11:19] How do you make a frog ride a bicycle?

[1:11:20] That's all puppets.

[1:11:22] Yeah, and I think that like that's part of the interest of it.

[1:11:25] Like this wouldn't be my choice, but I think that I thought of it because of like the theatricality of it.

[1:11:31] Something like Russian Ark where they're like, let's do it all in one take.

[1:11:35] Like being like on the side and being like, okay, well, what goes into that, you know?

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:40] So that you can sneeze during the first and second takes and they're like, all right, we're 95 minutes into the movie.

[1:11:46] I guess we got to go back to one.

[1:11:48] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:11:49] You have a thought?

[1:11:50] Yeah.

[1:11:51] I mean, I think mine is pretty obvious.

[1:11:53] I'm going to bring up our old pal Peter Jackson again and say the Lord of the Rings movies.

[1:11:59] Oh, what I wouldn't give to have been in Middle Earth during that time.

[1:12:04] It just obviously there's a ton of behind the scenes footage on the extended version discs, which I'm assuming are still in some of the,

[1:12:15] I don't know if in the various physical media, they still package it with all that, but all the, all the behind the scenes stuff.

[1:12:22] So cool.

[1:12:23] And like, obviously it looks like it was hard, but so much stuff was like built for it.

[1:12:28] And there were so many extras, many of whom were not treated very well.

[1:12:31] And that's too bad.

[1:12:32] But yeah, there's just like, there's something kind of special about that movie.

[1:12:36] Cause it feels, it's obviously something that, you know, is never, we're not going to get a movie made like that anymore.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:41] No.

[1:12:41] And combining, similarly combining that with Dan's Muppet thing.

[1:12:45] I hadn't thought about this before, but to be on the set of The Dark Crystal would have been.

[1:12:48] Oh yeah.

[1:12:49] Wow.

[1:12:50] To see, to see them, to see them operating those puppets, see them like, see people in those costumes and make it walking around to just live in that world for a little bit.

[1:12:58] It would be super exciting.

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:59] And watching, and watching people problem solve and work around and figure out the way to make those things happen.

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:04] You got to assume not every Gartham worked every time.

[1:13:07] No.

[1:13:08] No.

Dan McCoy

[1:13:10] So let's do the last thing we usually do on the show, which is recommend things.

[1:13:14] Now, normally, again, if the strike wasn't going on, we would recommend maybe new movies or any movies that we'd seen.

[1:13:23] But now we're opening up recommendations to just sort of whatever, to not be promoting maybe stuff we don't want to at this time.

[1:13:34] I'm going to recommend a book.

[1:13:37] It's like a movie in your mind.

[1:13:38] It's like a movie in your mind.

[1:13:39] Well, you know what?

[1:13:40] If you're not watching movies, maybe because of the strike, maybe read about them.

[1:13:45] The book I wanted to recommend was Cameraman, Buster Keaton, The Dawn of Cinema, and The Invention of the 20th Century.

[1:13:52] I had had this book on my Amazon wish list for a long time.

[1:13:58] And then the blank check Buster Keaton episode that had Dana Stevens on inspired me to be like, you know what?

[1:14:08] No one's going to buy me this.

[1:14:09] At least not anytime soon.

[1:14:11] I'll get it.

[1:14:12] I'll read it.

[1:14:13] And I'll like it.

[1:14:16] Dana Stevens has been a lifelong fan of Buster Keaton.

[1:14:22] She did a lot of amazing research into not just sort of the story of his life, but about how his life intersected with the technical changes of just the world in general and movie making in particular.

[1:14:41] And it's just a really engaging thing to read if you have any interest in that topic.

Stuart Wellington

[1:14:48] Last time I recommended Tank Tops, but unfortunately today I think I'm actually going to recommend a movie.

[1:14:53] I hope that's okay.

[1:14:53] I'm going to recommend an older movie.

[1:14:55] I'm going to recommend watching some newer movies made me want to go back and rewatch the films of Brian De Palma, a filmmaker who I'd seen bits here and there, but I feel like there's large portions of his filmography I hadn't really explored.

[1:15:11] So I went back and watched Dressed to Kill, which is a very sleazy New York thriller featuring Michael Caine.

[1:15:21] And it's, yeah, it's like a great, like sleazy, gross, giallo thriller that is, yeah, I mean, it has such a sense of place.

[1:15:35] And it also is like grimy in a way that, you know, you're not going to, you're not going to see anymore because it certainly doesn't deal with issues of mental health or.

[1:15:45] Yeah.

[1:15:46] Or, or, or.

[1:15:48] Or.

[1:15:49] Or gender identity.

[1:15:50] Gender identity.

[1:15:51] Yeah, it's not sensitive.

[1:15:52] It's not sensitive.

[1:15:54] But it's, it's beautifully made and it's, it's a, it's a good thriller.

[1:15:59] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:00] Dressed to Kill.

[1:16:02] And I'm also going to recommend a movie.

[1:16:04] I'm going to recommend an old movie, but an even older movie than Stuart recommended.

[1:16:08] I'm going to recommend a comedy from 1934 that's called Sing and Like It.

[1:16:12] And it's a very goofy movie.

[1:16:14] This is very much the second half of a double bill, most likely, because the big stars in it are Zazu Pitts, Nat Pendleton, Pearl Kelton, Edward Everett Horton.

[1:16:26] The romantic interest of the, of the main female lead is John Qualen, who Dan would know best as the prisoner in His Girl Friday that they're hiding in a desk.

[1:16:35] Oh.

[1:16:35] The production for use guy.

[1:16:37] But, uh, it's the story.

[1:16:39] Zazu Pitts plays a woman who works in a bank, but is singing a song about loving your mother in a, in the bank amateur talent show.

[1:16:46] A gangster overhears her in the middle of a heist.

[1:16:48] The gangster, a gangster overhears her singing it and becomes so obsessed with this song and bringing it to a larger audience that he essentially hijacks the production of a Broadway show.

[1:16:58] And forces them, uh, through threats to include her and make her the star.

[1:17:02] And, uh, I especially want to highlight the actor Ned Sparks, who is just a deadpan gangster type.

[1:17:09] He was in a lot of 30s movies, but he's just very funny.

[1:17:11] And everything he says, he's always like, around, he has a cigar in his mouth.

[1:17:15] He's always like, yeah, I'll say.

[1:17:17] Like, anyway, that's his tone every time, but I think it's hilarious.

[1:17:20] I will warn you, there is one joke in the movie about the gangster giving his, uh, his girlfriend two black eyes.

[1:17:27] That joke did not go over well with me when I was watching it.

[1:17:30] But otherwise, it's just a really funny movie.

[1:17:33] There's a lot of funny, uh, just back and forth repartee.

[1:17:36] It's super silly.

[1:17:37] And by the end of it, it has barely held together as a film.

[1:17:40] It's less than an hour and 20 minutes long.

[1:17:42] Uh, but it's-

[1:17:43] Sounds perfect.

[1:17:44] It's very fun.

[1:17:45] It's called Sing and Like It.

[1:17:48] And I saw it on the Criterion channel.

[1:17:50] So it may still be available there.

Dan McCoy

[1:17:52] Well, uh, that's it for this episode.

[1:17:55] As always, uh, check out the website, uh, flophousepodcast.com.

[1:18:02] If you're interested in Flop TV, there's links there.

[1:18:04] You'd also just go directly, uh, what is it?

[1:18:07] Theflophouse.simpleticks.com.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:09] If you go to theflophouse.simpleticks.com.

[1:18:12] Our next episode is coming up on, again, you have one week to watch our last episode.

[1:18:18] Our next episode comes out September 9th, and we're doing Cool World.

Dan McCoy

[1:18:22] Cool World.

[1:18:23] I'm looking forward to that.

[1:18:24] Uh, but yeah, if you can't remember that, just go to our website.

[1:18:27] There'll be links there, too.

[1:18:29] Uh, thank you to Alex Smith, our producer, uh, for all the great work he does.

[1:18:36] He goes by the name Howell Doughty on various socials.

[1:18:40] He has his own podcast, Fast Track, which is very good.

[1:18:44] If you want to check that out.

[1:18:46] Uh, if you want to go over to MaximumFun.org, our podcast network.

[1:18:51] There are a lot of other great shows on the network.

[1:18:53] I'm sure you would find something else that you liked if you'd give them a sample.

[1:18:57] Uh, thank you for listening.

[1:18:59] You know what?

[1:19:00] The only way we can really grow the show, honestly, is through you.

[1:19:07] So if you know people who are just raring to listen to a funny podcast about movies, maybe

[1:19:13] recommend us to them.

[1:19:15] Uh, leave us a review on iTunes or elsewhere.

[1:19:19] A positive one, please.

[1:19:20] That would be nice.

[1:19:22] Uh, keep being you, you know?

[1:19:24] You're great.

[1:19:24] Just keep on trucking, you know?

[1:19:26] Yeah.

[1:19:26] If you're great.

Stuart Wellington

[1:19:26] If you're a bummer, don't, you should change.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:29] Yeah.

[1:19:29] If you drive a truck, keep on trucking.

[1:19:32] Whatever you do, keep on doing it.

[1:19:33] If it's not hurting people.

[1:19:35] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:19:35] If it's murder, don't keep on, just turn yourself in.

[1:19:37] Don't keep on murdering.

[1:19:38] Stop murdering.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:40] If you're hitting people with a truck and you're like, I'm Maximum Overdrive, don't keep on

[1:19:43] trucking.

[1:19:44] Also, because in Maximum Overdrive, there are no drivers in those trucks.

[1:19:46] The trucks that turn evil.

[1:19:47] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:19:48] Uh, the Green Goblin was the villain in that, from what I recall.

[1:19:52] Oh, wow.

[1:19:52] Well, the Green Goblin's truck.

[1:19:56] Anyway, uh, thank you for listening.

[1:19:58] For the Flap House, I've been Dan McCoy.

[1:20:00] I've been Stuart Wellington.

Elliott Kalan

[1:20:02] I'm Elliot Kalin.

[1:20:04] Bye.

[1:20:14] Let's do a count off, count off.

[1:20:17] Let's count it off, count it off.

[1:20:18] Let's count it off.

[1:20:19] Let's count it off.

[1:20:20] Count it down.

[1:20:21] Count it up.

[1:20:22] Count it round.

[1:20:22] Count it, count it, count it, count it.

[1:20:24] Count off.

[1:20:26] One.

[1:20:27] Two.

[1:20:29] Three.

[1:20:30] That was a count off, count off.

[1:20:32] We did it just to count off.

[1:20:34] Counting all around the town.

[1:20:36] Counting up, counting down.

[1:20:37] Counting off, counting on.

[1:20:38] Counting in, counting out.

[1:20:40] Counting up, counting clout.

[1:20:41] Counting bout.

[1:20:42] Counting snout.

[1:20:43] Counting.

[1:20:44] Okay.

Dan McCoy

[1:20:46] Maximum Fun.

[1:20:47] A worker-owned network.

[1:20:49] Of artist-owned shows.

[1:20:51] Supported.

[1:20:51] Directly.

[1:20:52] By you.

Ep.#402 - The Net

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