FH Mini 91 – Best Horror Villains, Part 2

[0:00] Hey, yeah, that's right.

[0:06] This is the Flophouse Mini, a mini episode of the Flophouse podcast, a podcast where

[0:10] we normally watch a bad movie, then talk about it.

[0:12] But instead, today, we're going to be doing something a little bit different because it's

[0:15] a mini.

[0:16] We're doing part two of our official 2023 Horror Movie Villain Power Rankings.

[0:23] That's right.

[0:24] We're ranking our horror movie villains, all 14 of them, on three different categories

[0:28] of scariness, star power, and lucky dip.

[0:32] If you haven't listened to part one, I'd just go back one or two entries in our little catalog,

[0:37] and I'd listen to that bad boy first.

[0:39] To introduce ourselves.

[0:40] I think we got through how many?

[0:41] I think we got through three villains in the first part.

[0:43] We did half of it.

[0:45] We only have 11 left.

[0:46] Good thing Elliot's in charge of the math part of this show.

[0:50] I am your host, Stuart Wellington, and joining me are...

[0:54] Dan McCoy.

[0:55] And Elliot Kalin.

[0:56] Yep.

[0:57] And we make The Flop House, a podcast about movies.

[1:00] So, last time we ranked...

[1:03] And three-fifths of Captain Planet.

[1:05] Sorry.

[1:06] Yep.

[1:07] We're...

[1:08] Yeah.

[1:09] Worth it.

[1:10] 100% worth it.

[1:11] When we combine, he's missing one arm and most of his torso.

[1:16] Yeah.

[1:17] But you know what?

[1:18] That's better than nothing.

[1:19] Better than nothing.

[1:20] There's a no Captain Planet.

[1:21] Yeah.

[1:22] Yep.

[1:23] He looks kind of like Oro from Street Fighter III, but we'll talk about that later.

[1:26] Okay.

[1:27] Is that one of the horror monsters that we're ranking?

[1:29] Yes.

[1:30] Oro from Street Fighter III.

[1:31] Yeah.

[1:32] I mean, Street Fighter III does have some good monsters, but I think the game you're

[1:35] thinking of is Darkstalkers, the Capcom fighting game that features all classic movie monsters.

[1:41] Was I thinking that?

[1:42] You were thinking that.

[1:43] Yes, you were.

[1:44] Deal with it.

[1:45] Okay.

[1:46] I believe you have a...

[1:47] A couple years ago, you did a Morrigan cosplay.

[1:51] Somebody just Google that.

[1:52] I'm sure you can find Elliot dressed as Morrigan from Darkstalkers.

[1:54] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:55] Captain Morrigan.

[1:57] Captain Morrigan from the liquor brand.

[1:59] Oh, man.

[2:00] That's the mashup that everybody's dying for.

[2:03] Okay.

[2:04] Two very popular brands.

[2:06] Okay.

[2:07] So, last time we talked about, just to recap, we talked about Chucky from the Child's Play

[2:13] franchise.

[2:14] We talked about Michael Myers from the Halloween franchise.

[2:16] We talked about Jigsaw from the Jigsaw franchise.

[2:18] We talked about Predator from the Predator franchise.

[2:23] We talked about the Babadook from the Babadook single movie.

[2:26] We talked about Pinhead from the Hellraiser franchise.

[2:30] And finally, we talked about the old Fredhead himself, Freddy Krueger, from the Nightmare

[2:35] on Elm Street franchise.

[2:36] And just to give you the rankings...

[2:39] If you are listening to this one, but not that one, like some sort of maniac who sees

[2:44] part two and something is like, no, thank you, to part one.

[2:47] Yeah, they're like, how can I skip to the end?

[2:49] Yeah.

[2:50] Maybe I'll start this book in the middle.

[2:51] Who are these characters?

[2:52] I hate it.

[2:53] They're not set up right.

[2:55] I like you calling them franchises, Stuart, because it sounds a little bit like anybody

[2:58] can apply to the Home Office to open their own Nightmare Before Christmas.

[3:01] Nightmare on Elm Street.

[3:02] Nightmare Before Christmas is not a franchise, although there are books based on it.

[3:06] Does that count?

[3:07] Really?

[3:08] Who wrote those books?

[3:09] Let's sort of get to whatever these numbers are that he wanted to say.

[3:12] Anyway, so apply to the Home Office of Nightmare on Elm Street.

[3:15] See if you can open up a local one.

[3:17] And just to throw out a guess, can you guys, at this point in the rankings, can you guess

[3:23] who is on top?

[3:26] To the best of my memory, I feel like the Babadook had some really good rankings.

[3:30] Yeah, Babadook's number one.

[3:34] And who is dead last?

[3:38] I think it's Freddy due to an unlucky lucky dip.

[3:42] This is my guess.

[3:43] He did have a bad lucky dip.

[3:46] I'm going to say Predator.

[3:51] You are right, Elliot.

[3:52] I'm going to say this Predator who also had an unfortunate lucky dip.

[3:55] Who in their right mind would want to take that fellow to a nice restaurant?

[4:00] I don't want to watch him eat all those little cloths on his face.

[4:04] Come on.

[4:05] Yeah.

[4:06] It's like a crab.

[4:07] Yeah, I'm going to pull back the curtain.

[4:09] I think I may have talked about this last time.

[4:10] I have a pet crayfish in the house, but I watch it eat and it is horrifying.

[4:14] There's so many different appendages involved in that exercise, in that operation, and it

[4:18] is frightening.

[4:19] It's really scary.

[4:21] Do you think humans would be more efficient eaters if they had extra little appendages

[4:25] in their mouths?

[4:26] Yeah, probably.

[4:27] I mean, well, it depends on how you're eating.

[4:30] I mean, not with a fork because there you're already talking about a bite sized thing.

[4:35] I think if you would have to lower your head down to the plate and have all these little

[4:39] hands and claws pulling at pieces.

[4:41] I imagine it'd be like a typewriter.

[4:42] When you push too many keys, they all get tangled up.

[4:45] Someone has to pull them apart.

[4:46] That doesn't sound good to me.

[4:47] Give me a good old fashioned teeth.

[4:50] If you brought a handful of food up to some mandibles, you could eat it pretty quickly.

[4:54] I think that's true.

[4:55] What if humans had mouths kind of like the vampires, the vamps from Blade 2 with the

[5:01] crazy vagina mouths?

[5:02] What do you think?

[5:03] Do you think that'd be cool?

[5:04] Would they unfold and open up?

[5:06] In what sense?

[5:07] Well, the hard part is...

[5:08] What do you guys think?

[5:09] Should that happen?

[5:10] The hard part is...

[5:11] Should we do it?

[5:12] Should we do that?

[5:13] I mean, everything right now is kind of built for the other way.

[5:16] We'd really be asking all of human civilization to reorient itself around our three vagina

[5:21] mouths.

[5:22] That's true.

[5:23] I don't think it'd be worth the changeover.

[5:27] You don't think it'll catch on?

[5:28] Okay, that's fine.

[5:29] It reminds me of when there was a new iPhone years ago, and they were like, people keep

[5:33] accidentally hitting the picture button.

[5:35] And Steve Jobs was like, well, people are going to have to start learning how to hold

[5:38] phones differently.

[5:39] And it was like, dude, the human hand has been around for a long time.

[5:43] Why don't you make the machine to accommodate that?

[5:45] Instead of forcing me to change the way I hold my fingers.

[5:47] But he could do that.

[5:48] And you know what his secret was?

[5:49] What?

[5:50] A turtleneck?

[5:51] He was an asshole.

[5:52] So he did not care.

[5:53] Oh, wow.

[5:54] Yeah.

[5:55] Yeah.

[5:56] Man, I got to try that out.

[5:57] Okay.

[5:58] So are you guys ready for the part two of our horror movie villain rankings?

[6:03] Yeah.

[6:04] Oh, boy, am I.

[6:05] Oh, and we are starting off with a scary one.

[6:09] Ghostface from the Scream franchise.

[6:11] Ghostface.

[6:12] He's a killer.

[6:13] A different one each time.

[6:15] Spoiler alert.

[6:16] Are you.

[6:17] Have you guys seen them?

[6:18] Them Screamos?

[6:19] Have you seen the Scream movies?

[6:20] I've seen all the Screamos except for the most recent one, which I have a New York Screamo.

[6:27] Yeah.

[6:28] New York Screamo.

[6:29] I've just been sort of avoiding out of like a general like feeling of solidarity with

[6:33] Elliot.

[6:34] Thank you.

[6:35] I appreciate that very much.

[6:36] I have personal reasons that I have been advised not to go into on this podcast for why I will

[6:42] because of the last Scream movie, be giving Screamface, Slasher, Screamer, Ghostface.

[6:46] I will be giving him zeros across the board for reasons I've been advised not to go into.

[6:51] Your lawyer one, R. Giuliani, told you not to.

[6:55] Exactly.

[6:56] Yeah.

[6:57] My lawyers, Giuliani and Powell, told me not to go into it.

[7:01] But I've seen all the other Screams and have basically enjoyed all of them.

[7:06] Yeah.

[7:08] I would argue that I think this most recent Screamo, which I have seen, not out of solidarity

[7:13] with Elliot.

[7:14] I appreciate it.

[7:15] Yeah.

[7:16] It was a deliberate dig at me.

[7:17] Yeah.

[7:18] Well, it's a bit of a disappointment.

[7:19] It's a bit of a bummer.

[7:20] It's not as good as some of the others, I would argue.

[7:22] It's almost as if it's almost as if the idea from a different story was grafted onto the

[7:27] Scream films in a way that was not was not done the way not as good or ethical.

[7:32] But I mean, the Scream movies in general, they've got a pretty high standard, though,

[7:36] aside from generally.

[7:37] Yeah.

[7:38] Yeah.

[7:39] Yeah.

[7:40] I would argue it might be the most like second most consistent franchise out there.

[7:45] The top one being, of course, Final Destination.

[7:47] I thought you were going to say Final Destination.

[7:49] Yeah.

[7:50] Final Destination, number one.

[7:51] I think that's true.

[7:52] I think in terms of consistency.

[7:53] Yes.

[7:54] I think you're right.

[7:55] Yeah.

[7:56] Like when you go into a Final Destination or a Scream movie, you know what you're going

[7:58] to get and you get it.

[7:59] Yeah.

[8:00] You get exactly it.

[8:02] Unless there's somehow a drawing inspiration from from outside the Scream universe in a

[8:06] way that I thought that you were advised not to.

[8:09] You're right.

[8:10] I don't get into it anymore.

[8:11] That's true.

[8:12] That's true.

[8:13] That's true.

[8:14] So speaking of that, let's talk about Ghostface.

[8:15] Ghostface.

[8:16] Let's rank that guy on scariness.

[8:17] I say guy because almost always Ghostface is a guy, although I think sometimes it's

[8:21] a gal.

[8:22] Right.

[8:23] I can't remember.

[8:24] Yeah.

[8:26] Honestly, Ghostface, no matter who is Ghostface, because Ghostface is just a mask that people

[8:33] put on from varying from movie to movie and a sound and a voice sound.

[8:39] But I'll quote Professor William Joel when I say, Dan, we all wear a mask.

[8:43] Some are lace and some are leather.

[8:45] In a way, we're all Ghostface.

[8:47] I'm saying that they're all valid Ghostfaces, but the one consistent thing is the mask has

[8:54] a good record of, like, killing a lot of people.

[8:57] So that's pretty scary, but also seems to just be, like, easy to knock down or do, like,

[9:03] sort of slapstick things to the appeal.

[9:05] Yeah.

[9:06] So I'm going to give Ghostface a five.

[9:09] I think that's fair.

[9:10] Yeah.

[9:11] He also he uses primarily uses knives and bladed weapons, which are kind of scary because

[9:15] they cause a lot of bleeding.

[9:17] And he always seems to be like right behind you.

[9:20] And you're like, what?

[9:21] How do you do that?

[9:23] But also, like, half of them have just been like movie nerds.

[9:27] And I deal with those guys every day.

[9:30] So I think I'm with you.

[9:32] I'm going to say five.

[9:33] I'm going to say a three in terms of scary and maybe even a two in terms of scariness.

[9:37] When you get down to it, Ghostface is just a regular person with a knife and a mask on,

[9:41] which is scary.

[9:42] But it's not.

[9:43] Yes.

[9:44] I feel like that's more scary in real life than it is in a movie.

[9:48] Like Michael Myers is a guy with a mask and a knife, but he's also like some kind of unkillable

[9:54] madman.

[9:55] You know, he's a big and he's also big.

[10:00] all. You never know which ghost face you're gonna get, a big one, a little one, one who

[10:04] climbs on rocks, even ones with chicken pox. Love ghost face, arm or ghost face.

[10:09] A weird objection to the rule that you're making, just a small corollary, where it's

[10:16] like Michael Myers to me was the most scary at the beginning where there was some ambiguity

[10:22] about is this just a human or is there something more going on? And as that ambiguity was lost

[10:29] and became supernatural, I found him less scary.

[10:32] You could see that, I could see that, because it's less real, it's not gonna happen. I think

[10:39] what it is with ghost face is it's less scary because, as you guys have already said, it

[10:43] depends on which ghost face you're gonna get. I feel like ghost face to me is not a character

[10:48] in the same way these other ones are. It is just a mask that someone puts on when they

[10:53] wanna stab somebody. As opposed to, I know in the Saw movies you have Jigsaw's followers,

[11:00] but it feels like Jigsaw is still a presence, whereas for me, ghost face is not.

[11:06] There's only one ghost face, and he's a real killer. That's right, ghost face killer. The

[11:10] one consistent ghost face.

[11:11] Oh wow, classic hip hop reverence from Elliot Kalin.

[11:14] You just know that's the world I swim in. I'll go as high as a three, I'll say a three.

[11:22] It is scary to have someone in a mask with a knife running after you.

[11:24] Okay, do you wanna change your rating anymore, so that I can have to scratch it out?

[11:30] Okay, so we've talked about scariness, let's talk about style. I think ghost face has a

[11:35] little bit of style. He has a lot of games, he has his little sound effects, he likes

[11:43] to set up elaborate traps where he's chasing people. In a way, I feel like Jigsaw's got

[11:50] him beat on both games and traps, but I feel like ghost face builds the scariness, where

[11:58] he's like, at first you're like, who's this annoying guy calling me on the phone, then

[12:02] by the end you're like, oh, he's gonna kill me.

[12:04] Yeah, text me bro.

[12:06] You know what, you said it makes me think ghost face threat level is a lot lower here

[12:13] in a world where people don't pick up numbers they don't recognize. He's just sitting there

[12:17] calling over and over again being like, pick up so I can ask you if you like scary movies

[12:21] and then kill you.

[12:22] I think at least one of the later screams made hay out of that.

[12:26] Did they?

[12:27] Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I forgot about the taunting, that's pretty good, I guess. I still can't

[12:33] get over the fact that ghost face is basically just a mask, and a mask that is stolen from

[12:39] the scream in a way that, you know, at this point, as many people I think associate that

[12:45] look with scream as they do the Edvard Munch painting.

[12:49] I mean, that's an argument in favor of its iconic quality, you know.

[12:53] Well, that could take over, yeah, but if it feels like stolen valor to me, I don't know,

[12:58] I'm gonna give him a three.

[13:01] Three for style, okay. I'm gonna go a little higher, I think he's got some charm, I'm giving

[13:07] him a six.

[13:08] I'm gonna give him a four, a little bit higher than Dan, because I do think it is a good

[13:12] style, it's a good scary movie look, and this is where I think it works that it looks

[13:17] like an off-the-rack Halloween costume, because when you dress up like him for Halloween,

[13:22] you could be the real him, and you don't know, which, you know, which adds to it, but I,

[13:29] there is part of me that's like, oh, I like that painting, and it's too bad that now that

[13:34] painting is the scream movie painting, as opposed to another one of Edvard Munch's expressionist

[13:40] masterpieces, where he's letting out into the open the turmoil inside his very soul.

[13:46] Do you think he has other paintings, and he's like, why didn't you turn this into a movie?

[13:50] Probably, and that's what he sounds like, too.

[13:53] Hey, why didn't you turn this into a movie?

[13:57] Yeah, because he's an Israeli used car dealer, yeah, that's what he's, so.

[14:01] That sounds a lot like Wado.

[14:03] Okay.

[14:04] I mean, what is Wado, but an Israeli used car dealer.

[14:08] Okay, so I think it's time for everybody's favorite part, that's right, Lucky Dip, Dan,

[14:13] why don't you give me a number between one and seven, because I've already eliminated

[14:16] the ones we've already picked.

[14:18] Seven.

[14:19] Okay.

[14:20] How, this is actually pretty good for Ghostface, on a scale of one to ten, how effective do

[14:27] you think Ghostface would be at explaining the rules of a complicated board game to Dan

[14:32] McCoy?

[14:33] I mean, obviously, Ghostface in general is sort of like coded as a nerd, at least from

[14:42] the start, in that Ghostface is interested in following all of these horror rules, so

[14:48] obviously.

[14:49] He's the horror villain that loves categories the most.

[14:53] Yes.

[14:54] So obviously, very good, you know, from that perspective, but there's a slight chance that

[15:03] he'd get impatient and kill me.

[15:06] He gets frustrated.

[15:07] So I'm not going to give him the full ten, but I'll give him a nine.

[15:11] Dan, this was exactly my thinking, he has a little bit of patience, but I don't think

[15:15] he has enough patience, so I'm also going to say a nine, yeah.

[15:19] Having explained complicated board game rules to Dan McCoy, I know Ghostface is going to

[15:23] get frustrated.

[15:24] Yeah, you just have to accept that I'm going to check out halfway through, but then once

[15:31] we play the game, I'm going to understand how it works, like, by playing.

[15:36] Yeah, yeah.

[15:37] And that's, I don't think Ghostface needs to be in control, so I'm giving him only an

[15:41] eight.

[15:42] But that's still respectable.

[15:43] Well done, Ghostface.

[15:44] Okay.

[15:45] I think his patience level compared to other horror villains, I think, is high, because

[15:51] he's willing to engage in conversation before killing.

[15:54] Yeah.

[15:55] Yeah.

[15:56] There's a lot of setup.

[15:57] That's what really gets him off, you know?

[15:59] A lot of the other villains, they're just like, you're here, you're dead, goodbye.

[16:05] Okay, so Ghostface, not a bad showing.

[16:09] To continue our face category, our next villain, that's right, it's Leatherface from the Texas

[16:15] Chainsaw Massacre franchise.

[16:18] He's got, boy's got the moves.

[16:21] You guys have seen at least some of the Texas Chainsaw Massacres, right?

[16:24] Yes.

[16:25] I've seen the first two, I did not see any of the remakes or anything like that, the

[16:29] later sequels.

[16:30] Did you see part three with Viggo Mortensen?

[16:31] Oh, you know what?

[16:32] I did.

[16:33] Okay, so I have seen part three.

[16:35] I forgot about that.

[16:36] Yeah.

[16:37] I think the only one I haven't seen is the one with, what's his face and what's her face?

[16:41] McCann, hey.

[16:42] William Devane and Judith Light, you're thinking of like the sitcom Phenom, that a tennis player

[16:46] sees.

[16:47] Was Zellweger the other one?

[16:49] It was Zellweger, yeah.

[16:51] Oh, yeah, okay.

[16:52] Yeah, that one is...

[16:53] Oh, wait a minute.

[16:54] I haven't seen that one in a long time, but I remember seeing that a long time ago.

[16:57] I do feel like for a long time, that was my least favorite movie available to watch.

[17:04] Available to watch.

[17:06] It was like, it felt like, you know, almost every Texas Chainsaw Massacre features a,

[17:11] well, most of the good ones, feature a lengthy dinner scene that just involves a lot of yelling.

[17:17] And I feel like that was just most of that movie.

[17:18] Oh, like that episode of The Bear?

[17:19] It was a lot like, the episode of The Bear was a lot like a Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

[17:25] Although it was more of a Chicago Chainsaw Massacre, without a chainsaw.

[17:30] Yeah, so let's talk about, let's talk about scariness on the ol' L-Face, Leatherface.

[17:37] I mean, I'd love to go first.

[17:38] I'm going to give Leatherface a 10 on scariness.

[17:40] That is one scary guy.

[17:42] He lives in a gross house full of bones.

[17:44] Sounds delicious when you think about it.

[17:46] There's just chicken bones all over the place.

[17:48] But I bet it smells really bad.

[17:49] Reports from the set where that smells really bad.

[17:51] There's just something about him that is, and him and the world he exists in, that is

[17:55] so off, is so disgusting and frightening to me.

[18:00] Because it feels like it's both grotesquely exaggerated, but also could very well happen.

[18:06] You know, there could, there could, there might be somebody somewhere who's just saying

[18:11] gross soil clothes and wears skin over their face and is just hanging around in a, in a

[18:15] humid, stuffy house full of bones and meat and things like that.

[18:18] Really gross.

[18:18] So I'm going to give it a 10.

[18:20] More than almost any other horror villain.

[18:22] You know, he smells bad.

[18:25] Just looking at that guy.

[18:26] You're like, no thanks.

[18:27] It comes through.

[18:28] There's something so, I mean, that's what, I mean, that first movie is so brilliant and

[18:32] it's so amazingly well-made because it's so like visceral and tactile and it feels like

[18:36] it's assaulting all of your senses at the same time.

[18:39] And it's, it just, it sounds like it was a nightmare to make.

[18:42] Everybody involved had a terrible time.

[18:45] But it really, that terrible time really comes, really comes through.

[18:49] Yeah.

[18:50] I, I want to say that like, as a, at this point, a pretty jaded fan of horror movies

[18:57] who like actively seeks out weird stuff and what, like, there's very little in a horror

[19:02] that like, I still enjoy it, but it doesn't usually actually scare me all that much

[19:08] anymore, but with a few exceptions.

[19:11] And I think that like the Texas Chainsaw Massacre is a movie that when I finally got

[19:15] around to see, it was pretty late, actually.

[19:18] Like, was it like 11 o'clock?

[19:19] Defenses.

[19:20] That's pretty late.

[19:21] Just, you might fall asleep while watching it.

[19:23] If you watch it.

[19:24] I'm just saying, well, it wasn't one that I saw as a teen.

[19:26] Like I saw it late enough that like some of these calluses had, had worked up, but it's

[19:31] still like really unnerved me in a way that, you know, is unusual.

[19:37] And so I'll give it a 10 too.

[19:38] I feel like it has all this, the movie, it's, and we're just talking about the movie.

[19:41] We're not talking about the character, but the movie itself has all the strengths of

[19:44] a well, a well-made film and all the strengths of an exploitation grindhouse film where

[19:49] you're watching it.

[19:49] You're like, I know this is not real, but at certain moments it feels so real to me.

[19:53] And that's super frightening.

[19:54] And Leatherface, what I like about him is as a character is that he is so clearly.

[20:00] when he's used right, he's so clearly like,

[20:03] doesn't really understand what he's doing wrong.

[20:05] You know, as opposed to some of the other villains

[20:08] who are hate machines.

[20:09] Leatherface doesn't hate, he just is,

[20:12] he's, you know, he was raised bad.

[20:14] And there's something extra scary about that to me too,

[20:16] that he's an innocent, who's also a monster.

[20:19] You know?

[20:20] Yeah, he's this like primitive, primal,

[20:23] like almost animal.

[20:24] And the-

[20:26] Unless his dad tied that for him, which is possible.

[20:29] I'm assuming somebody tied it for him,

[20:31] or showed him how to do it enough times

[20:33] that he picked it up.

[20:34] One of the things about the movie is that it is like,

[20:36] of all the like slasher movies,

[20:39] it's the one that best captures like a folk horror vibe,

[20:43] where you're like, you are in a world

[20:45] you do not understand.

[20:48] And the rest, and like, as the movie goes on,

[20:52] more of it's revealed that you're like,

[20:54] everyone's in on it, this is, I am like,

[20:57] the world, this is a complete malign paradigm shift.

[21:00] I do not understand what is going on.

[21:02] Well, like Audrey is by no means like a horror fan,

[21:07] but that is like the thing that she like,

[21:09] has brought up more than once about Texas Chainsaw Massacre,

[21:12] that like, she really zeroed in

[21:14] on exactly what you're saying,

[21:15] that she's like, you're in this world,

[21:18] you're like isolated in this world,

[21:20] like you're out in the open, it's the country,

[21:22] but you're isolated in this world,

[21:23] and you discover that like, no one's there to help you.

[21:26] Yeah, it's all that, there's a little bit less

[21:29] that feeling in the second one,

[21:30] what with the theme park and everything, but-

[21:33] The super silly fun one?

[21:35] Yeah, yeah, the super silly fun one,

[21:36] but that movie is going for something different, yeah.

[21:38] Yeah, okay, so Elliot, what is your scariness?

[21:43] Wait, did you go first?

[21:44] Who went first? Yeah, I said 10, 10 scariness.

[21:45] Dan, Dan, what are you giving Leatherface

[21:47] on the old scary meter? I gave 10 as well.

[21:49] 10, I'm gonna give him a nine

[21:52] because sometimes he's a little silly.

[21:54] It's true, he is a little silly sometimes.

[21:57] On the subject of- And he's also,

[21:59] here's the thing that shouldn't be scary about him,

[22:01] and is, that moment in the first movie

[22:03] when he falls and cuts his own leg,

[22:05] should not, that should make him less scary,

[22:07] but somehow it makes him more scary, I don't know why.

[22:10] Yeah, so speaking of him being a silly little guy,

[22:15] where do we give him, where do we put him

[22:16] on the style meter?

[22:19] What kind of style does our boy Leatherface have?

[22:23] Real normcore, real normcore.

[22:25] Yeah, if we were talking about

[22:26] the traditional version of style,

[22:28] he would rank very low, but I think-

[22:31] Actually, star power, not style.

[22:33] Star power, yeah. Star power.

[22:36] And so that's why he still gets ranked pretty high.

[22:39] I'm not gonna give him the high heights

[22:42] because he hasn't entered the public consciousness

[22:45] to the way that Freddie or Jason has,

[22:49] but I don't know, I'll say eight.

[22:52] I'm gonna give him a- That's still pretty good.

[22:54] I'm gonna give him a seven

[22:56] because there's something,

[22:58] I feel like the name is well-known,

[23:01] but I think Dan's right that the image

[23:02] is not as necessarily recognizable,

[23:04] and I think that's because his look is very busy.

[23:07] It's hard for me to, it's hard to tie down,

[23:09] like what, it's like Jason, hockey mask,

[23:11] Freddie, hat, sweater, glove with the claws on it,

[23:15] Michael Myers, mask, like they have their one thing,

[23:17] and Leatherface, it should be his leather mask,

[23:19] but it's so gross looking and so complicated looking

[23:22] that it's like hard to draw

[23:23] like a cartoon version of Leatherface,

[23:25] whereas you could draw a cartoon version

[23:26] of these other characters.

[23:28] Yeah, you couldn't do like a little,

[23:30] you wouldn't wanna do like a little amoeba,

[23:32] like a little like chibi version of Leatherface.

[23:34] No, it's hard for me to imagine

[23:36] a Funko Pop of Leatherface.

[23:37] I'm sure there is one. I'm sure there is one.

[23:40] Freddie, Jason, all those guys,

[23:41] I can visualize the Funko Pop,

[23:43] but it's hard to visualize Leatherface.

[23:46] What I do not wanna see

[23:48] are all the rejected Funko Pops of Leatherface.

[23:50] Ew, gas.

[23:53] Yeah, I'm gonna give him an eight.

[23:58] I would give him a seven,

[23:59] but I'll give him an extra point

[24:00] because of the way he kind of co-opted

[24:03] the franchise a little bit.

[24:04] I don't know if that's just the natural feeling

[24:06] of a horror movie franchise

[24:07] to latch onto a single individual,

[24:09] but I feel like he is not like the main focus,

[24:14] like in the Texas Chainsaw Massacre,

[24:16] there's a lot of bad stuff going on,

[24:18] and I feel like he becomes more and more the focus

[24:20] as the series goes on.

[24:22] Okay, so I think it's time for a lucky dip.

[24:25] Elliot, why don't you pick a number between one and seven?

[24:28] I'm gonna say four.

[24:31] Ooh, this one might be okay for old Leatherface.

[24:34] On a scale of one to 10,

[24:35] how likely are you to invite him

[24:37] to babysit or catsit for you?

[24:40] I say catsit for me and Dan, who have no children.

[24:45] I'm gonna give a one because I'm pretty sure

[24:49] Leatherface is gonna taxidermize my cats immediately.

[24:58] Yeah, I'm gonna say a zero on this

[25:00] because that baby's gonna get eaten for sure.

[25:02] But even if he doesn't eat the baby,

[25:04] do I think Leatherface can change a diaper?

[25:06] No.

[25:07] Do I think Leatherface can put together a meal?

[25:09] His dad can, it would be cannibal flesh, but still.

[25:12] Do I think Leatherface is gonna be able to turn on the TV

[25:16] so the kids can watch a cartoon?

[25:18] No, he is incapable of doing these things.

[25:22] Try and smash it with a hammer.

[25:24] I'm gonna give him a two

[25:25] because I think there's a chance

[25:27] that he will be charmed by my annoying cats

[25:29] and will want to take care of them.

[25:31] Oh, I bet he'll love the cats.

[25:33] I bet it'll really speak to his innocent side,

[25:35] but the minute the cat does something he doesn't want,

[25:37] he's gonna reach out and bring a snack or something.

[25:39] It's like a mice and man.

[25:39] Trouble city, yeah.

[25:41] Okay, well, Leatherface got a little trouble there,

[25:43] but that's okay.

[25:44] Run by Mayor Leatherface.

[25:46] Yeah.

[25:47] Okay, number three.

[25:50] You know him, you love him, that's right.

[25:53] Candyman from the Candyman franchise, Tony Todd himself.

[25:56] Yeah, I do know him and love him, yeah.

[25:58] Obviously, I'm referring to Tony Todd

[25:59] from the original Candyman run, not the recent reboot.

[26:04] So, Candyman guys, have you seen any Candymans?

[26:09] Uh, I've seen the old Candyman.

[26:14] I did not see any of the old, just the one sequel.

[26:19] Farewell to the Flesh?

[26:20] Yeah, that's the only one.

[26:21] And then I saw the reboot.

[26:24] Called a remake.

[26:25] Yeah.

[26:26] Let's call it a remake, reboot.

[26:27] Come on, everybody.

[26:29] They're not computers, they're movies, come on.

[26:31] They're not trying to relaunch a franchise,

[26:33] but it's, I think it's-

[26:34] Well, movies get remade, content gets rebooted.

[26:37] It's a direct sequel to the original Candyman.

[26:39] Then I would just call it a sequel.

[26:41] But it's a legacy sequel.

[26:43] Like, it's obviously meant to set up,

[26:46] I think reboot serves a specific purpose.

[26:47] We got a ghost face right here,

[26:49] what with those movie nerd rules.

[26:50] I think there's a specific purpose for the word

[26:53] that it actually applies in this case.

[26:56] But-

[26:57] Okay.

[26:58] But the TV show reboot that was on Hulu

[27:00] was not a reboot of the TV show Reboot

[27:02] from when I was a kid, where they all look at each other.

[27:05] It was about Candyman.

[27:07] It was about Candyman.

[27:08] Is Judy Greer a robot lady?

[27:10] Possibly.

[27:11] Is she like a digital?

[27:12] I just rewatched the original Candyman last year, I think.

[27:15] Oh, wow.

[27:16] And I was like, this movie holds up real good.

[27:18] Yeah.

[27:19] It's a good horror movie.

[27:20] I mean, here's the thing.

[27:21] I'm gonna split the difference here

[27:22] because on the scariness, which is our first thing always.

[27:29] I think Candyman, the movie is extremely scary

[27:34] as horror movies go.

[27:35] And I think that he's scary.

[27:38] I think that I can't be all that scared

[27:43] because I don't think I would say Candyman

[27:46] five times into a mirror.

[27:48] Like-

[27:49] Just three times.

[27:50] Nobody would say it five times.

[27:51] No, it's five times.

[27:52] It's fucking five times for Candyman.

[27:53] That's part of what's so weird about it.

[27:55] Oh, okay, because I would only do it three times

[27:57] and be like-

[27:58] Three times, deuces.

[28:00] I mean, I'm gonna look it up to be sure,

[28:01] but I'm pretty sure I'm right on this.

[28:02] Maybe I'm wrong.

[28:04] And that's the weird thing to me too about it.

[28:06] It's like, that's a lot of commitment.

[28:07] Five times?

[28:09] Even just to say it at all.

[28:10] You're really asking for Candyman to show up.

[28:13] It's also not like he arrives and gives you candy.

[28:15] The story is you say it and then he shows up and kills you.

[28:18] So the idea that anyone would do it, it is a-

[28:21] Yeah, five times.

[28:22] Five times.

[28:23] I don't know why I remember it as three.

[28:25] It is a-

[28:25] Because that's what makes sense.

[28:27] That's what everything else is.

[28:27] Because that's Beetlejuice, bitch.

[28:29] Yeah, maybe that's it.

[28:30] I think that, yeah, I'm gonna give him,

[28:33] if he shows up, he's pretty scary.

[28:35] But you're right, it's a high bar for a monster to clear

[28:39] if you have to call him yourself.

[28:40] You're opting in to Candyman.

[28:42] Yeah, you don't have, it's not,

[28:44] usually with monsters you have to uncheck the opt-in box.

[28:46] It's pre-checked.

[28:47] His does not come pre-checked.

[28:48] You gotta click that.

[28:50] Like-

[28:51] I accept the terms and conditions

[28:52] of having Candyman visit me.

[28:54] Well, like, I could understand how you would

[28:57] accidentally watch the videotape from the ring.

[29:00] Yes, of course.

[29:01] That's possible.

[29:02] You find an art mark videotape,

[29:04] you assume it's porn, you put it in, yeah.

[29:06] Accidentally, there's, you have to, what kind of,

[29:08] I wish that was the way you did the movie where-

[29:08] If you're a cabaret singer who has to sing the song

[29:12] Candyman over the course of five evenings-

[29:14] But even there, you don't sing it five times

[29:16] in a row in the song.

[29:18] Yeah.

[29:19] But there's part of me that's like,

[29:20] I wish the movie was about what kind

[29:22] of elaborate situations does he have to orchestrate

[29:25] in order to get someone to say the word five times in a row?

[29:28] He dresses up as if he's a man carrying candy around

[29:35] and he pretends not to hear people,

[29:37] so they have to keep going,

[29:38] Candyman!

[29:41] What's funny then is he's already there.

[29:42] In that scenario.

[29:43] He's already there, yeah.

[29:47] But not in, I'm saying not in his work mode.

[29:49] Because once he shows up, he's scary.

[29:51] Yeah, that's true.

[29:53] Once he shows up, he's, oh, you're saying,

[29:54] when you say it five times, it's like it flips the switch.

[29:56] It's like, oh, okay, now I can do it, yeah.

[29:59] Yeah, I mean, he kills you with a.

[30:00] Look, that's pretty gross.

[30:01] Yeah, he's got a hook.

[30:03] He's got bees.

[30:04] There's scary stuff going on with him.

[30:06] People get scared of bees.

[30:07] Tony Todd is an imposing, very charismatic figure.

[30:10] Yeah.

[30:13] Yeah, so I'm gonna, I'm kinda with you guys.

[30:15] I'm gonna say movie very scary, but he himself,

[30:18] I'm gonna give him a seven though.

[30:19] I think he's a scary dude.

[30:21] Yeah.

[30:23] No, I'm sticking with my split the difference of five,

[30:26] but I see that as a villain,

[30:29] if I were in that situation, very scary.

[30:31] And I'm gonna say six, just in case I find myself

[30:34] in a room where somebody calls forth Candyman.

[30:36] You have a lot of chances to say stop or shut up

[30:38] or cover their mouth,

[30:39] because they gotta say it, like Dan says, five times.

[30:41] If he just happened to be around,

[30:42] I'm pretty sure Candyman's not gonna really differentiate

[30:45] whether he's gonna kill you or not.

[30:46] So there's always the chance of sort of a drive

[30:49] by Candyman-ing.

[30:50] Yeah, yeah.

[30:52] That's why it's not protected speech to say Candyman

[30:54] five times in a crowded theater.

[30:56] Yeah, I mean, I think altogether,

[30:58] we've said it way more than five times already.

[31:00] Yeah, but we've said other words in between is the thing.

[31:02] I mean, well, that's like,

[31:03] if you say it five times over the course of several days,

[31:06] does that still count?

[31:07] That seems unfair.

[31:09] It seems very unfair, yeah.

[31:10] And it's not intentional anymore.

[31:12] Yeah, okay, so let's talk about star power.

[31:14] How much star power does our guy, Candyman, have?

[31:19] Oh, I'm gonna say-

[31:19] He's got a coat, he's got a coat,

[31:20] he's got bees, he's got a hook.

[31:22] I'm gonna say an eight.

[31:24] He's got a coat, bees, hook,

[31:26] he's got a great tragic romantic backstory.

[31:29] I do love that.

[31:30] But he doesn't have the, again,

[31:33] he doesn't have as much of that iconic look.

[31:35] Again, I'm having trouble imagining

[31:36] the funko pop of Candyman.

[31:38] Yeah. Just be Tony Todd.

[31:40] You know, he's got that coat,

[31:41] but there's a certain point where

[31:43] if you don't know he's a monster villain

[31:45] and you just saw him walking down the street,

[31:46] you'd be like, that's a cool guy with a cool coat.

[31:48] It wouldn't, it wouldn't,

[31:49] you would be scared, you know.

[31:51] Elliot, you know, Elliot's reaction is entirely my own.

[31:56] An eight was what I was gonna give it

[31:57] and for the same reasons.

[31:59] So we can shorten this part of the episode

[32:02] and have me shut up.

[32:05] I'm also gonna give him an eight.

[32:06] I'm also gonna point out that Tony Todd has that voice.

[32:08] You know, there's something pretty amazing

[32:10] about his cool deep voice.

[32:11] You know what, that's true.

[32:12] I've been judging a lot of this on look

[32:14] when I should be including voice

[32:15] and other things like that.

[32:16] That's true, yeah, very charismatic.

[32:17] Yeah.

[32:18] Yeah.

[32:19] In which case, Leatherface, still super scary.

[32:20] Just grunts and squeals, horrifying.

[32:23] Yep.

[32:24] Okay, so that's Candyman.

[32:27] Now let's talk about Lucky Dip.

[32:30] Dan, can you pick me a number between one and seven?

[32:34] Six.

[32:36] Uh-oh, I think he lucked out.

[32:41] how effective would Candyman be

[32:43] at killing a whole school trip of pesky teenagers?

[32:47] How did that slip in there?

[32:50] Wow, that seems like a,

[32:52] that seems like a gimme for most of these.

[32:55] Yep, that's the bonus.

[32:55] That's the luckiest dip of all.

[32:56] Yeah, it's the Lucky Dip.

[32:58] So I think I'd have to say a 10, right?

[33:00] Especially if some of these kids have bee allergies.

[33:02] A 10.

[33:03] Oh man, kids these days,

[33:04] with their bees and peanut allergies?

[33:06] Yeah.

[33:07] Does he have peanuts?

[33:08] Does he carry peanuts?

[33:09] He does, he has little peanut shells

[33:10] with bees inside of them.

[33:11] He calls them bee nuts.

[33:13] And he goes, excuse me, would you like a bee nut?

[33:16] And he hopes people think he said peanut.

[33:17] And they take a bite and a bee goes in their mouth.

[33:19] Yeah, especially when he's like,

[33:20] oh, the Candyman's here with some bee nuts.

[33:23] Everyone would be like, oh, what are those?

[33:24] That sounds like the Great New Tree.

[33:27] Yeah, probably honey-covered peanuts.

[33:29] Sounds delicious.

[33:30] And he also has the advantage

[33:31] that all these kids on the bus

[33:33] are gonna be glued to their screens

[33:35] instead of paying attention to the murderer.

[33:37] Oh, these modern kids, oh.

[33:38] I wanna see someone to make an ad for Candyman's bee nuts.

[33:42] Like, little packaging, you know?

[33:45] Friendly little Candyman.

[33:47] So I think Candyman's gonna crush those teens.

[33:50] That's right, I'm giving him a 10 as well.

[33:51] Yeah, that's 10.

[33:53] Dan, I think we're just waiting on you.

[33:54] No, I gave him a 10, I think.

[33:56] 10, 10, 10, 10 across the board?

[33:58] Yeah.

[33:59] Okay, awesome, okay.

[34:00] Even the Russian judge is giving him a 10, undeniable.

[34:03] Yeah, very tough judge.

[34:04] Okay, we're on to our fourth horror movie villain.

[34:07] We've talked about iconic looks,

[34:09] but this might be the most iconic.

[34:11] That's right, the Xenomorph from the Aliens franchise.

[34:15] Oh, is it a penis?

[34:17] Who knows?

[34:18] Mine doesn't look like that, or does it?

[34:23] What the?

[34:24] It's like someone hit a bunch of keys

[34:27] on a Stewart soundboard all at once.

[34:30] What?

[34:31] What vamping?

[34:32] Anyway.

[34:33] Yeah, good job, good job.

[34:35] We're talking the Xenomorph as designed by H.R. Geiger.

[34:39] How, you know a monster's scary

[34:41] when the guy who designs the monster is scary.

[34:44] Yeah, he's scary as fuck.

[34:47] Yeah, famously so.

[34:48] Like, yeah, it's hard to,

[34:50] most of these creatures don't have a name

[34:54] associated with them in the same way, too.

[34:57] Like, the alien is so iconic

[34:59] that we have a singular guy that we can be like, yeah.

[35:03] It's one of the rare cases where,

[35:04] I mean, it's like Ghostface in a way.

[35:07] It's like Ghostface if they had hired Edvard Munch

[35:09] that the alien directly came

[35:11] from one of H.R. Geiger's paintings.

[35:14] Like, they said, it should look like that.

[35:16] And he was like, I'll be happy to do that for you.

[35:20] A little bit of scratch.

[35:22] That's how he talks, yeah.

[35:24] I would like to crank one out for you.

[35:27] Have you ever seen, I saw this somewhere

[35:29] and I've always wondered if it was real or not.

[35:30] His design for the facehugger,

[35:32] which was like a chicken that would place its beak

[35:34] into people's mouths to put the egg down.

[35:37] And they were like, we'll handle this.

[35:38] We'll design something else for this.

[35:42] I was wondering if that was an April Fool's prank.

[35:43] Oh, yeah, we'll save that for another creature.

[35:47] Yeah.

[35:48] Maybe in species.

[35:49] Okay, which does sound very disquieting to me.

[35:53] Yes.

[35:54] I will never look at chickens the same.

[35:55] Okay, so on scariness factor,

[35:58] where does the old xenomorph go?

[36:00] How scary is that xenomorph?

[36:02] I mean, this is a 10 for me.

[36:04] If anything's a 10, it's the xenomorph, yeah.

[36:08] Man, it looks so different

[36:11] than anything I'd ever seen when I first saw it.

[36:14] And just immediately,

[36:17] like the movie's called Alien,

[36:19] and it's a thing that feels genuinely alien

[36:22] in a way that most creatures don't.

[36:25] There's a book called Shock Value

[36:27] by Jason Zinneman that came out a bunch of years ago

[36:29] where he talks about the monster problem

[36:31] where the monster, when you see it,

[36:33] is never as scary as you imagine it's gonna be.

[36:35] That it's being hidden all this time,

[36:37] and as soon as you see it by the end of the movie,

[36:39] it's not scary.

[36:39] And that the alien he talks about

[36:41] as the monster that solved that equation,

[36:43] where when you see it,

[36:44] it is as scary as you thought it was gonna be,

[36:46] and in some ways scarier.

[36:47] It's so, yeah, it's so unlike any other stuff,

[36:51] the mix of organic and not organic,

[36:53] the fact that it has weird human teeth,

[36:55] that it's so drippy,

[36:56] that it's got that second toothed tongue inside of it.

[37:00] Yeah, it's a scary monster.

[37:02] And also, it's got acid blood,

[37:04] it eats people all the time,

[37:05] its babies shoot out of your chest.

[37:06] Like, this monster,

[37:08] it's like they used four different ideas.

[37:10] I mean, that idea was taken

[37:11] from an earlier science fiction story,

[37:13] but it's still a really scary idea.

[37:15] There's so many different ideas in this monster.

[37:17] And it's a little bit sexy, I think.

[37:20] Yeah, and it's very much so.

[37:21] I mean, I think that's one of the scary things about it,

[37:23] is it has that,

[37:24] parts of it have that sleekness and that sexiness,

[37:28] and that's very much H.R. Giger's thing.

[37:29] Like, his stuff would not be as scary

[37:31] if it was not also supposed to be sexy.

[37:33] Now we gotta add sexy xenomorph

[37:35] to the end of this episode, I think.

[37:36] Oh, yeah, probably, yeah.

[37:38] I think that's easily done.

[37:39] Okay, so we got a 10 from Dan Elliott,

[37:43] where we've fallen in the scary factor.

[37:44] Oh, 10, hugely 10.

[37:46] I love that monster, love the design, very scary.

[37:48] Even when they made toys of it,

[37:50] where they mashed it up with different animals,

[37:52] like a gorilla alien and a bull alien,

[37:54] they still look scary.

[37:55] Yeah, and I feel like even as they introduce more of them,

[38:02] it doesn't make them less scary.

[38:04] Like, they're still scary in aliens,

[38:06] and in Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection,

[38:10] like, they're always still scary.

[38:13] They're scary when there's one of them

[38:14] stalking you through corridors,

[38:15] and it's scary when there's 100 of them

[38:17] leaping out at you, or swarming over.

[38:19] Yeah, it's just such a scary thing.

[38:21] I'll give it a 10.

[38:22] Now, I think this is actually,

[38:23] before we get into Star Power,

[38:25] I think this is a perfect time for us to take a break

[38:27] from the sponsors of this episode.

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[38:52] I find that they can be useful with creativity,

[38:56] sort of get you into sort of a focused, relaxed place

[39:00] that a lot of more unique ideas have sprung for me

[39:06] at those times sometimes.

[39:08] And I don't know, I like to draw a lot,

[39:12] and I think it helps me take away

[39:14] sort of the inhibitions of my hand when I'm drawing,

[39:19] when I'm, Stuart is making a face of me.

[39:22] So glad you said drawing.

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[39:48] And we're also sponsored this episode by Factor.

[39:50] Factor is a food company that, I'll tell you,

[39:54] I have some very good things to say about.

[39:56] It's a fact that Factor.

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[40:55] satisfy your fall cravings during the busy season without the hassle. Now, I'd

[40:59] love to share my personal experience with Factor. There's nothing I'd like to

[41:02] do more than that. Unfortunately, I can't really because I only got to eat one of

[41:07] the Factor meals they sent to us to test out and then my wife tried one and she

[41:12] liked it so much it became her go-to, bring-to-work lunch choice. So you'll

[41:16] have to track her down and ask her which dishes she likes because she liked them

[41:19] so much she took them all and I didn't get to have any more of them. So that's

[41:24] my sales point on that is get them, you'll enjoy them but protect them from

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[41:49] to get 50% off. And you know what? We also have a Jumbotron today. This is a

[41:56] fun one. What's better than an hour with your favorite peaches? How about an hour

[42:04] with each peach talking about their favorite Broadway cast album and or

[42:09] heavy metal concept album? Listen to the original cast podcast to do just that.

[42:16] Fans of The Flop House can go to bit.ly slash original cast flop and

[42:24] find out Dan's thoughts on a pre Mrs. Fletcher Angela Lansbury, Stu's musings

[42:30] on heavy metal bands logos and what Elliot thinks the ethical uses of a

[42:35] resurrection machine would be. So go to bit.ly slash original cast flop and

[42:42] listen to each of your favorite peaches talk music on the original cast. This is

[42:48] a podcast that we I think now we've all been guests on. It was a ton of fun and

[42:52] Patrick the host was nice enough to allow me to flaunt the rules of the show

[42:59] and instead of talking about an original cast album talk about King Diamond's

[43:03] Them, one of my favorite heavy metal concept records and a very spooky

[43:11] album to listen to in this spooky time of year. I'm glad that we were able to

[43:15] get through that jumbotron without associating the product either with

[43:18] masturbation or marital strife as we did our first two. I tried I couldn't do it.

[43:25] The jumbotron was too well written. They told me to speak about my personal

[43:29] experience the factor and I did. My wife liked it so much that I didn't get to

[43:34] eat more of it. People say not to judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree

[43:43] which is why here on Just the Zoo of Us we judge them by so much more. We rate

[43:48] animals out of ten in the categories of effectiveness, ingenuity, and aesthetics

[43:52] taking into consideration each animal's true strengths like a pigeon's ability to

[43:57] tell a Monet from a Picasso or a polar bear's ability to play basketball. Guest

[44:02] experts like biologists, ecologists, and more join us to share their unique

[44:06] insight into the animal's world. Listen with friends and family of all ages on

[44:10] MaximumFun.org or wherever you get podcasts.

[44:21] It's the final week of Co-Optober. I'm Richard Robey, producer, and I'm here with

[44:26] Katie Wigman, operations specialist. To cap off National Co-Op Month, we're

[44:31] sharing how worker-owned co-ops can benefit their communities. Read about it

[44:35] in our newsletter or on social media at MaxFunHQ. We're also trying to do our

[44:40] part. We're volunteering at our local food bank this week and we encourage you

[44:44] to volunteer in your area too. On Friday we're announcing the donation that you

[44:49] helped raise in the post MaxFunDrive sticker sale going to five food banks

[44:53] across the U.S. And we want to make sure that you know this is your last chance

[44:57] to get our limited edition Launch Crew merch. Grab a pin, hat, shirt, or hoodie

[45:02] before they disappear at the end of the month. Details on merch, resources for

[45:06] volunteering, and all things Co-Optober can be found at MaximumFun.org slash

[45:11] Co-Optober. That's C-O-O-P-T-O-B-E-R. Thank you so much for your support and a

[45:17] great Co-Optober. Okay, we also have a couple other things to mention. One is

[45:23] this is this is Flophouse General Business. I'm sure you've heard a

[45:26] lot of it by now, you know. We have Flop TV, our monthly online screening series.

[45:31] It's a six-month season. We've had three episodes so far. They were all

[45:35] really fun and our next episode is coming up soon. It's Saturday, November

[45:39] 4th. We're gonna be talking about Over the Top, possibly the greatest sports

[45:43] movie ever made. Yeah, Stuart? I was gonna say, I mean how many other arm wrestling

[45:48] adventures exist in the movie world? Very few. As far as I can think, none. Well, none

[45:56] that are directly about the world of arm wrestling. There are other movies

[45:58] with arm wrestling in it, but that's November 4th. If you want to watch it, go

[46:02] to theflophouse.simpletics.com. You can buy tickets for individual

[46:07] episodes or you can get a season pass that gives you a discount on the six

[46:10] show bundle and gives you access to these shows after they air. There's the

[46:15] video still up on the website. You can bop, you can watch it whenever you want

[46:19] and if you happen to miss the show on November 4th, your ticket or your season

[46:24] pass still gets you access to the recording after the show is over. It's

[46:27] really fun. We've had a lot of fun with these. Original presentations, original

[46:30] talk, questions from the audience. We were all in town in LA this past

[46:36] week before we recorded this and we recorded some more intro videos that

[46:41] have all of us in the same room together. Spoiler alert. So that'll be fun. So that's

[46:46] Over the Top, the next episode of Flop TV, the television version of The Flophouse,

[46:51] November 4th. Go to theflophouse.simpletics.com. And then guys, I have a

[46:55] personal thing that I wanted to promote, if that's okay. Sure. Okay. How personal?

[47:00] Okay, anyone related to that marital strife we were talking about earlier? No, I'm just kidding. Okay, cool.

[47:03] Elliot's single and ready to mingle. I'm neither single and have no interest to

[47:08] mingle. Yeah. I don't want to hang up a shingle and I don't want to have a

[47:14] pringle because once you stop, once you pop, you can't stop. Anyway, I have a

[47:18] comic book series that is coming out right now. It's from Dynamite Comics and

[47:22] it's called Hades, starring the villain of the Disney Hercules movie. Issue number

[47:26] three came out on October 25th, one day after we recorded this, but a couple days

[47:31] before you hear it. So go to your local comic book store and pick up Hades number

[47:35] three. It's a five issue series. Issues one and two are out. Issue three comes out

[47:39] this week and it's a super fun, funny, kind of like ancient Greek myth heist

[47:44] mash-up with lots of fun characters and silly jokes and exciting action. Fans of

[47:50] the original Disney Hercules will like it and people who didn't like the

[47:52] original Disney Hercules I think will also like it. I think it's a fun way to

[47:55] enjoy the character without being associated with James Woods. Exactly. You

[48:00] can imagine any voice you want in there. It doesn't have to be him. Elliot's voice?

[48:04] Sure, I guess so. You should release an audiobook version of your comic book

[48:09] where you do the voice for everybody. Okay, so are you getting ready? Yeah, I do that. It's

[48:12] called reading to my children every day. When I'm reading to them and they go,

[48:16] uh, voices? And I'm like, okay, well every character has to have a voice now, I guess. Don't pretend you don't like

[48:22] doing voices. I like doing the voices. Do you accent too? Yes, when it's called for. Except

[48:27] there's one character in the Dog Man books who is an Australian character, but

[48:30] other than occasionally her saying, I'm Australian, it never comes up and I

[48:34] forget to give her an Australian accent during her scenes. Okay, well that's a

[48:39] snapshot. You asked and I told. If you didn't want to know, you shouldn't have asked. Let's go back to the horror. More fool me. That's mud on my face. It sounds like the Horror Express is about to leave Scary Station. Let's hop back aboard. Okay, choo choo. A real shift took place there. Okay, we're back in the

[49:01] game and you know we just talked about scariness of the old Xenomorph, so let's

[49:05] talk about Star Power. What do you think? Again, I gotta give this a 10. It is one of the most iconic things ever. Not even in movies, I think, just like in general. Here's the show of how iconic and how Star Power it is. Alien is a pre-existing word that it now owns. We thought it was a big deal that they took one of Edvard Munch's paintings. Everyone can take away a Norwegian painter's painting, you know, if he's not looking, just grab it.

[49:35] When he's not there. Yeah, just grab it. The word alien and then the word aliens, it owns those words now. You can put out a movie called Alien vs. Predator and people are like, what's a predator? They know what an alien is. Yeah, you guys are right. I mean, I was about to knock some points off because it doesn't talk, doesn't have any cool catchphrases, doesn't do any bits, unless it's Spaceballs in which he does bits. Yeah, and he sings a song, yeah.

[50:00] that's the show that he's got range.

[50:02] He didn't get cast in anything else off of that,

[50:05] but you know, the critics loved it.

[50:07] I mean, he does have catchphrases like,

[50:10] ha ha ha.

[50:11] Uh-huh.

[50:13] And he's like, somebody stop me.

[50:15] Smokin'.

[50:18] Smokin'.

[50:19] That's the alien, all right.

[50:20] Yep.

[50:21] Oh, classic.

[50:22] Oh, okay.

[50:24] So I'm gonna ding him a point.

[50:26] When the alien goes,

[50:28] the alien goes, really?

[50:30] Like that kind of stuff, yeah.

[50:31] Yeah, how wooed.

[50:35] And you're like, he didn't even pronounce the R right.

[50:37] Oh, that's adorable.

[50:38] I'm just gettin' warmed up.

[50:40] Yeah.

[50:42] She's got a great ass.

[50:46] That movie makes a lot more sense

[50:48] when you realize that Al Pacino assumed

[50:49] the character was high on coke the entire film.

[50:51] Yeah.

[50:54] Okay.

[50:56] Okay, so I think it's time for a lucky dip.

[50:58] This could make or break.

[50:58] I'll do the alien's last catchphrase,

[51:00] hink-a-tink-a-too.

[51:02] Yep.

[51:03] Also a good catchphrase.

[51:03] Good night, Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are.

[51:06] Wherever in the universe you are.

[51:07] Okay, what was the final, what's the lucky dip?

[51:10] We're doing lucky dip,

[51:11] and I think, is it Elliot's time to choose?

[51:13] I think it's Elliot's time to choose.

[51:14] Sure, I'll choose.

[51:15] This could make or break the game for the old Xenomorph.

[51:17] Wow, at the risk, I'm gonna say number one.

[51:19] I think he's the number one horror monster,

[51:21] but let's say number one.

[51:22] Let's see.

[51:23] Interesting, okay.

[51:26] how likely are you to ask the Xenomorph to help you move?

[51:31] Oh, man, this is where the score tanks.

[51:34] I don't know, well, hear me out.

[51:36] There's a lot of them.

[51:38] That's a lot of helping hands.

[51:39] That's true.

[51:40] And they seem to be pretty strong.

[51:42] Yeah, they get into tight spaces.

[51:45] I do think that they're either going to,

[51:49] you know, shoot their little inner mouths out and kill you,

[51:53] or have one of their friends lay eggs in you, so.

[51:57] At the very least, they're gonna lay eggs

[51:58] in all your stuff, and suddenly your couch

[52:00] is gonna be full of chest bursters.

[52:01] The highest I can go for this is a two,

[52:05] and that's mostly just because I want to give

[52:08] one of my favorite monsters, you know.

[52:10] A fighting chance, okay.

[52:11] A fighting chance.

[52:12] I'm gonna go as high as a four.

[52:13] I'm gonna say a four, although I do regret it.

[52:15] I wish that the Xenomorph could have walked away

[52:17] with a perfect score on this one.

[52:18] Oh, this is gonna be hard.

[52:20] This category is always gonna be the Xenomorphs.

[52:25] I really wish that Xenomorph could have gotten

[52:27] the killing a bus full of teens.

[52:29] Oh, man, would have crushed it.

[52:31] They're very good at killing people on vehicles.

[52:32] I'm gonna give the Xenomorph a three,

[52:34] because the Xenomorph is, you know,

[52:36] they pick up kids and move stuff around,

[52:39] like, you know, they're industrious.

[52:40] That's true, yeah.

[52:41] Yeah, they move stuff, yeah.

[52:43] Too bad, Xenomorph, that was a tough round for you.

[52:45] Okay, we're about to talk about

[52:49] one of my favorite horror villains.

[52:51] I think it's also one of you guys.

[52:53] We're talking about the Tall Man

[52:54] from the Phantasm franchise.

[52:56] Sure, yeah.

[52:57] As portrayed by Angus Grimm, RIP to a real one.

[53:02] The best to ever do it, Angus Grimm.

[53:04] Like I said about Geiger, when the actor who plays

[53:07] the character has a scary name, that's already,

[53:10] that's a good sign.

[53:12] You could have told me that if in the movies

[53:13] they revealed the Tall Man's real name was Angus Grimm,

[53:15] you'd be like, yeah, definitely.

[53:17] Makes sense, he looks like one.

[53:19] Have you guys seen, I actually still have not seen

[53:23] Phantasm Ravager, that's like my big shame.

[53:25] That's the new one, right?

[53:27] That's the most recent one, yeah.

[53:28] Yeah, I haven't seen it.

[53:29] I can't help myself to do it.

[53:30] And that I'm glad that they got some sort of chance

[53:34] to close the series off, because it is such a wild series

[53:39] of continued continuity, even though nothing that happens

[53:42] really makes any sense.

[53:44] No.

[53:46] So, I liked it on that level.

[53:48] It does feel like kind of what it is,

[53:50] where it's like Don Cascarelli handed this off

[53:52] to some kids to make their fan film of the Phantasm.

[53:59] Yeah, that's kind of what I was worried about.

[54:01] But I liked seeing some sort of end to the story.

[54:08] Yeah, I can see that.

[54:11] But up to that point, the first four, I love them,

[54:14] they're so weird, they don't make a lot of sense,

[54:17] but that's exactly what I like about them.

[54:19] And the fact that they have this like-

[54:20] Also, the ambition of the movies gets bigger and bigger,

[54:24] even as the budgets are shrinking dramatically.

[54:27] Yeah, yeah.

[54:28] After number two.

[54:30] And I mean, the quad shotgun is forever gonna live

[54:33] in my brain, a shotgun with four barrels, it's amazing.

[54:38] Okay, so, but we're not talking about Phantasm as a series,

[54:40] we're talking about the main villain,

[54:42] the tall man, played by Angus Grimm.

[54:45] So where does he fit on scariness for you guys?

[54:48] Now, I have a question before we do that,

[54:49] are we factoring in the globes or not?

[54:53] Yes, that's part of his fucking thing.

[54:56] If you buy an action figure, you get a fucking sphere.

[54:59] Okay.

[55:01] So if you're unfamiliar with Phantasm,

[55:03] the tall man has a bunch of these weird spheres

[55:07] that float around him like silver and gold,

[55:09] and they all have different powers and crap.

[55:10] Some of them shoot lasers,

[55:12] most of them just stick in your forehead

[55:13] and then drill into your head

[55:14] and shoot blood all over the place.

[55:16] Yeah.

[55:17] Yeah.

[55:17] It's a real solution in search of a problem.

[55:20] Yeah.

[55:24] I mean, well, they're so much lighter to transform

[55:26] once you take all that blood out of them.

[55:28] Yeah, yeah.

[55:29] Isn't that what people's heads you mean?

[55:30] Yeah.

[55:32] I mean, this is a weird one because like,

[55:37] all the critiques of the tall man

[55:39] are also what makes him scary.

[55:41] Like, he doesn't really make any sense what he wants

[55:45] or what his powers are or any of that.

[55:47] Like, it's always unclear to some degree.

[55:50] And you could argue that's a failing

[55:54] or you could argue that that's a strength

[55:56] in terms of like, whether it scares you.

[55:59] So I would call that, I'm gonna give him an eight

[56:01] because I would, for that reason, Dan,

[56:02] I would call that a strength that Phantasm at its best

[56:04] works on a sort of dream logic.

[56:06] And the tall man to me is a,

[56:08] he feels like a bad guy in a dream.

[56:11] Like, it feels like that he's operating by

[56:13] not the rules of any established reality,

[56:15] but by the rules of what a character

[56:16] in a nightmare would be like.

[56:17] And he looks scary without looking like a,

[56:20] he looks scary because he looks like a scary old man.

[56:22] You know, he doesn't look like a monster necessarily.

[56:25] And he's got those fears flying around.

[56:28] And there's something about him that is impenetrable to me

[56:32] in the way that a dream is.

[56:33] So that works for me in this case.

[56:35] So I'm gonna give him an eight.

[56:37] Yeah.

[56:38] I can't go that high.

[56:39] I see what you're saying.

[56:41] I'm actually gonna give him a six

[56:43] because he just seems like a guy.

[56:44] He seems mostly just like a guy.

[56:47] And-

[56:48] I guess you know a lot of guys

[56:48] with fears with drills in them that shoot blood out.

[56:51] They're shockingly strong despite their slim frame.

[56:55] The drills fears, like, here's the thing about the tall man.

[57:00] It seems like if you don't go like

[57:02] prowling around the mortuary at night,

[57:05] if you don't poke the bear,

[57:06] he'll pretty much leave you alone.

[57:08] I mean, he does eventually go out

[57:09] and start taking over vast swathes

[57:11] of the United States of America.

[57:13] Yeah, I guess that's true.

[57:14] Wiping them out, turning everybody into dwarves, yeah.

[57:16] Yeah, but to be fair, in the first movie,

[57:18] it is kind of more of a,

[57:19] if you don't mess with his business,

[57:21] then you can just go about your life

[57:23] and it doesn't matter.

[57:25] Yeah, I'm gonna give him a seven.

[57:27] As far as scariness, I think he's scary,

[57:29] but is he a top tier scary?

[57:31] Not really.

[57:33] Let's move on to-

[57:33] I'll give you that, I'll give you that.

[57:34] He's a second tier scary.

[57:35] I'll give you that.

[57:36] Let's talk about Star Power.

[57:39] Where does the tall man reside in Star Power here?

[57:42] He's got a great voice.

[57:43] He has a couple of memorable lines.

[57:46] And yes, he's got a pretty good look.

[57:50] He's got some cool toys,

[57:54] but I don't think he's really moved

[57:56] outside of the franchise.

[57:59] Yeah, that's what I was gonna say.

[58:00] I think that he's not a breakout

[58:02] other than among the horror nerds.

[58:05] So that takes him down a little bit,

[58:08] but I think that Angus Grimm is so charismatic in the role

[58:14] that I'm still gonna give him like a seven.

[58:16] Yeah.

[58:17] See, I'm gonna be much lower than that.

[58:19] I'm gonna give him a five for this.

[58:21] I think he works so well in those movies.

[58:23] I like Angus Grimm's performance so much,

[58:25] but I do think there's something,

[58:26] there's some it factor that's missing

[58:29] from making him, like you said,

[58:30] more than just the franchise.

[58:31] He works so well in the movies,

[58:33] but outside the movies,

[58:34] I don't think of him as a character

[58:36] that like does other stuff,

[58:37] whereas the alien or Jason,

[58:39] it's hard for me not to imagine them in other scenarios,

[58:42] what's gonna happen, you know?

[58:44] Angus Grimm, he just feels like a part

[58:45] of that Phantasm story, you know, to me.

[58:49] Yeah.

[58:50] Or the tall man, I should say.

[58:51] Angus Grimm, I'm sure,

[58:52] had a life outside the Phantasm movies.

[58:53] He was a human being.

[58:54] I'm assuming.

[58:55] He had a family, probably.

[58:56] No, he just went into standby mode in between

[59:00] and they would boot him up.

[59:01] Well, the funny thing about him

[59:02] is that I think in the first one,

[59:03] he's playing older than he actually is.

[59:05] So he ages quite a bit over the course

[59:08] of the movies and real life,

[59:09] but they just always make him look

[59:10] like the same old man, basically.

[59:12] Yeah.

[59:13] So I'm giving him a six for this.

[59:15] So let's get into Lucky Dip territory, Dan.

[59:17] Give me a guess, a number between one and seven.

[59:21] Now, I have no way of knowing

[59:25] which ones we've already picked at this point.

[59:25] Okay, well, let me give you a choice here.

[59:28] We got two, three, five.

[59:34] Two, three, or five.

[59:35] I'm gonna go with five.

[59:37] So it's easy to remember what's remaining.

[59:40] Hmm, interesting, okay.

[59:42] how good would the tall man be at being a gym teacher?

[59:47] A high school gym teacher.

[59:48] Oh, man.

[59:50] Oof, slam dunk.

[59:50] I feel like he would kill this one.

[59:52] He would fucking crush it.

[59:54] I mean, he already is like, just like, boy.

[59:56] He already talks about playing games with boys

[59:58] and having to meet the kids.

[1:00:00] Yeah, yeah, I mean like that's like just like half a step away from you know, kid, you know yelling a kid's last name

[1:00:05] Yeah, like McCoy. Yeah hustle on, you know

[1:00:10] Yeah, he's yeah in many ways like one step removed from like a nightmare scenario gym teachers that you

[1:00:17] That you're are like already lives in your head. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean

[1:00:23] You know, they're like just reasons of like I think you would have a tough time in that atmosphere

[1:00:30] That I'm not gonna give him the full ten. Like I think that you know interesting his disposition

[1:00:35] Like, you know killing people or turning them into

[1:00:39] dwarves or whatever

[1:00:42] Real gym teachers don't kill people who turn into dwarves you're being naive

[1:00:48] I'm just gonna I'm saying an eight. It's you know, it's high but not the highest

[1:00:54] Okay

[1:00:55] I'm gonna give him an eight as well. I think you'd be very good at this and

[1:01:00] Despite you know, I in some ways he would make a better science teacher, but uh, I think

[1:01:06] You know, he's strong. He's physically fit despite his ears, you know, yeah

[1:01:13] Yeah, I'm gonna give a nine just cuz around the time of year when the presidential physical fitness test comes around

[1:01:18] I find it hard to believe he would stick to that curriculum

[1:01:24] Solid nine. Yeah. Okay, not bad. Okay

[1:01:27] So for our next horror villain, we are we're talking about a classic here. Well kind of a classic

[1:01:33] Argued one of the scary ones from killer clowns from outer space

[1:01:40] We are talking about Jack Torrance from the Shining movie

[1:01:45] Torrance from the Shining movie

[1:01:48] Considered by many to be the scariest movie of all time to me

[1:01:51] It's these a brooder film, but that's just me

[1:01:55] So, I mean it is the only movies that I thought I might have had a heart attack during

[1:02:00] But I don't think that that's the movie's fault and more just something that happened in my I mean you certainly

[1:02:05] Contributed to that your lifestyle has contributed to that to that event. I mean my heart is fine

[1:02:12] Sorry to spring this on the flop house listening audience. My heart is fine everyone

[1:02:16] Yeah, for your dad had it checked out. It's fine. But uh, but yeah part of me was like

[1:02:23] Was that part of that tension from the Shining who knows who knows could be

[1:02:28] It'd be could be

[1:02:30] Okay, so Jack Torrance, we have all we've all seen the Shining, right? Sure played by Jack Nicholson

[1:02:37] Maybe you've heard of him. He was also a joker. No, he was a wolf once

[1:02:42] Yeah, Dan you probably remember him best as most people do from the film The Passenger and Tony O'Neill's film

[1:02:51] Easy rider, uh-huh, but he wasn't a raging bull. That was no, he was not a raging bull. No, but he was a departed

[1:02:59] Yeah, he was he was a departed. Yeah

[1:03:03] He was

[1:03:06] So

[1:03:09] So

[1:03:10] Dan you may know him best from watching from you having seen The Witches of Breastwick and then being like is this a parody of

[1:03:16] Anything? Oh the witches of Eastwick. That's what it's a parody. Yeah

[1:03:20] But they're not watching

[1:03:23] Which is which of those movies is better?

[1:03:28] Well, one's directed by George Miller and the and the other is directed by Jim Winarski from

[1:03:35] Yeah, I mean it depends on what you want

[1:03:42] Like which is of Eastwick it has a lot of stuff I like in it

[1:03:45] But it is not one of my favorite George Miller movies despite like all of the amazing star power and the great like

[1:03:51] George Miller camerawork, there's a little something missing there for me

[1:03:55] But I was I would quality wise put it above which is of breastwick. It was the quality you want is boobs

[1:04:04] The latter film takes the

[1:04:08] Yeah, it's a crown

[1:04:09] Okay, so Jack Torrance we're talking about potential father of the year candidate Jack Torrance failed failed novelist

[1:04:17] and arguably failed

[1:04:21] All work and no play make a jack-o'-the-ball boy

[1:04:25] Sleek you never know. Yeah, so it's autofiction. It's autofish. It's a new experiment. Yeah, so on scariness

[1:04:33] Where does old Jack fit in?

[1:04:36] uh, I would say that personally scary to me was watching the movie and seeing

[1:04:43] Jack yell at his wife for interrupting him while he was writing and let me be clear

[1:04:48] I don't know. I'm not abusive towards Audrey in any way, but I do get

[1:04:53] Considering that

[1:04:56] Dan how often do you brandish an axe at her when you know, I don't I mean the fact the point is like

[1:05:01] I know it's ridiculous to compare myself because it is like

[1:05:05] Like so far to be like end of the spectrum, but like and also you don't have a child which puts so much stress on

[1:05:12] a marriage

[1:05:13] Doesn't I see the irritability?

[1:05:16] himself

[1:05:18] The shining tells you that a kid can just ride a big wheel around the empty halls of a haunted hotel all day

[1:05:24] But in real life, they'd be like daddy. Daddy. Daddy. Daddy. Daddy. Daddy. Play with me. Daddy. Daddy, daddy

[1:05:29] And you're like, it's another fucking ghosts. There's ghost kids right here play with the ghost kids your own age. I'm dizzy

[1:05:36] I'm sorry. I was starting to make a point

[1:05:39] Yeah, it was interrupted in such a way as to make it sound the worst and I call that the flop house podcast

[1:05:47] Interrupting. Just let me say the full idea. Okay, you got it

[1:05:51] It is so ridiculously out of bounds in the movie. It's like this like horrifying

[1:05:58] But the facts that I get irritable with Audrey when she's like

[1:06:02] Hey, you know, I need this or that thing when I'm writing

[1:06:06] Like there was like this small part of me is like is this how I come across like whether or not it's like

[1:06:12] It's like real and those in the sense of like I'm like, oh, I don't want to

[1:06:17] Seem like I'm like turning on someone just because at that moment

[1:06:22] I am like trying to play, you know

[1:06:24] You know, so I was like, I think that it was personally scary to me because I was like

[1:06:29] This is the worst-case scenario of like the kind of like like anger that lies within people, you know

[1:06:36] Okay, so I could see so the what's scary about him is in a way you see yourself reflected

[1:06:43] Well again, I want to make it clear. I don't actually but

[1:06:47] I'm like you see you fear you see you that the fears that you have

[1:06:51] I think that part of the thing that is scary about The Shining is it is a movie about hurting people who care about you

[1:06:58] Yeah, so I guess in our version The Shining Dan is Jack Torrance. I'm gonna be the cool bartender

[1:07:03] That's a ghost and I'll it will be I don't know Shelly Duvall or the kid or both. I don't know

[1:07:08] Yeah, I'm gonna give him I'm not gonna I don't find him that him that scary in it

[1:07:12] I find the movie scary, but I don't find him

[1:07:14] I'm gonna give him I'm not gonna I don't find him that scary. I'm gonna give him I'm gonna give him

[1:07:19] I find the movie scary, but I'm gonna give him like a six. I think okay six Dan

[1:07:27] What

[1:07:29] What what's the rating because we've been rating everybody on a scale of 1 to 10

[1:07:36] The inner Jack Torrance

[1:07:39] Every time I have said the number

[1:07:43] You asked me at the end of them, yeah, so I had seven seven seven seven seven

[1:07:48] Okay

[1:07:51] Yeah, I'm gonna go six as well, okay, so let's talk about star power

[1:07:57] Jack Jack Nicholson, he's uh

[1:08:00] Yeah

[1:08:03] And he was able to steal someone else's catchphrase and make it his own catchphrase

[1:08:07] He was gonna say I was gonna use that exact thing for the opposite of it

[1:08:11] The most iconic thing about him is someone else's catchphrase

[1:08:15] Oh, but I think if you can take someone else's catchphrase and make it your own then that you have defeated them star-wise

[1:08:22] But that's just me I could be wrong yeah, no, I think I mean I think his his performance really

[1:08:30] Maybe it might not necessarily make it scarier, but it definitely is very iconic and memorable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah

[1:08:38] I'll give him a high. I'm gonna give him an eight star power. Okay, it's not the character

[1:08:42] It's it's Jack, but that's you know something if I take it off a little bit because he is one of the most

[1:08:49] charismatic stars of the yeah that generation

[1:08:52] But I know by all accounts a bad person, but we're talking about performance by all accounts a difficult person not good to people

[1:08:59] Who knows what he's involved with you? So I don't know. I don't know for sure

[1:09:03] I don't want to open us up to anything you did I would talk about that scream thing, but uh the

[1:09:09] But yeah, but it's not a person I would want to spend time around I'm

[1:09:14] Going like we're not talking about Jack Nicholson though. We're talking about the character of Jack Torrance and I guess I'm gonna say that like

[1:09:21] when you think of the Shining like

[1:09:24] even though he's obviously

[1:09:27] Got problems from the very beginning of that movie like you. He's not necessarily

[1:09:34] You don't think of him necessarily as the

[1:09:37] Overall villain of the picture you think of the hotel and it's malign influence

[1:09:41] I think as the overall villain and he's a weak man that it's channeled through at least that's the way I think yeah, and

[1:09:48] So otherwise, it's just like here's here's Jack Nicholson in a sweater

[1:09:52] And does that permeate us like a horror movie villain like I don't know I say I'm gonna give him a six

[1:10:00] Well six I think I'll split the difference here and give him a seven on star power

[1:10:06] So now we are on lucky dip

[1:10:08] Elliot, why don't you give me either a two or a three say a three?

[1:10:14] Okay on a scale of one to ten

[1:10:18] How likely are you to trust Jack Torrance to do your grocery shopping for you?

[1:10:24] Well

[1:10:26] He he's he's already that's kind of the job he's doing in some ways is that kind of he's not doing it

[1:10:32] Well, he's not doing a great job. No

[1:10:37] So, yeah, I think he's gonna go to the grocery store is a ghost there is gonna offer him a drink

[1:10:42] There's gonna be a ghost. I'll offers him address next thing. You know, he's throwing cans at people's heads, you know

[1:10:49] Yeah, yeah, I'll be the ghost bartender in the beer

[1:10:52] I'll be like, yeah, they don't for some reason they say you can't give free samples of beer anymore

[1:10:57] What's wrong with people these days? Yeah, so I'm gonna I'm gonna give him a

[1:11:01] on the other hand

[1:11:02] Should I'm having trouble not comparing him to the other monsters who I would also not really trust to do this job for me

[1:11:09] This is at least something that I believe Jack Torrance has done at some point in his life. So

[1:11:14] Five. Okay, you're giving him a five on this

[1:11:18] I'm gonna go way higher

[1:11:21] I'm gonna go with an eight and I say that I mean he is he is a basically a human man

[1:11:30] It is

[1:11:31] Aaron's, you know, and I think that like away from the hotel, especially, you know

[1:11:36] If you can send him out not in this, you know cooped up in a snowstorm

[1:11:40] Maybe that'd be good for his head

[1:11:43] So, yeah, I think he probably do it if you wanted him to make a good point that he is a person as opposed to

[1:11:49] Like I can't I'm not gonna send a predator to go get my groceries

[1:11:56] Yeah, you'll just bring back a bunch of skulls all polished up I wanted

[1:12:02] Yeah, I mean I feel like deep down

[1:12:04] Jack Torrance would be wanting to do a good job

[1:12:08] And I think I think he would do okay at following instructions. He would still mess up a little bit

[1:12:16] Probably again because he was drinking ghost beer what gone

[1:12:19] I feel like anytime you use instacart you're dealing with Jack Torrance. He's gonna try his best

[1:12:24] Like you're saying he's gonna pick the wrong item for a couple things

[1:12:27] You're gonna be like when I asked for potatoes, I didn't want potato chips like yeah, this is like oh

[1:12:34] They're out of potatoes. There's no way they were out of potatoes Jack like okay, but you try you did your best

[1:12:38] I understand, you know, uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah

[1:12:42] Instead he just got me too bad. I asked for two potatoes and he gave me two bags of tato skin

[1:12:46] a

[1:12:48] Chip they don't even make anymore. Oh, yeah. I got it from a ghost from the 20s. Yeah

[1:12:54] Wait, they had tato skins back in the 20s probably

[1:12:58] Okay, so Jack Torrance not did not too bad on that last bit

[1:13:02] So we we're gonna wrap this whole game up with I mean he's been in the background this whole time lurking

[1:13:08] Slowly pursuing us occasionally teleporting. That's right. The terror of Crystal Lake himself Jason Voorhees

[1:13:15] You knew he was coming he couldn't he couldn't hide we couldn't hide from him forever

[1:13:20] You know, he thought he was dead at the bottom of a lake some multiple times

[1:13:24] Electrocuted him or or stabbed him in his grave and he came back. Yeah. Yeah

[1:13:29] So Jason Voorhees on a scary factor, where does old Jason?

[1:13:35] Where does old Jason sit?

[1:13:37] Here's that a lot of incarnations if we were you know, if we were doing goosebumps rules as we've talked about before

[1:13:45] Mm-hmm like that situation

[1:13:47] unstoppable

[1:13:48] seemingly teleporting killer

[1:13:52] You determined ten out of ten obviously

[1:13:55] but I have to look at it from a bit of a distance and I think I'm gonna like

[1:14:00] Take in the general vibe of the movies, which I find

[1:14:04] almost cozily enjoyable

[1:14:07] More than I do like scary due to like I don't think that there's particularly accomplished suspense

[1:14:14] filmmaking in the Friday the 13th pictures

[1:14:17] so his whole vibe is

[1:14:20] Scariness is lesson for me because of that and also because unless he's like carted away on a cruise ship

[1:14:26] He mostly just hangs around that one Lake. So yeah, it's for five

[1:14:32] Okay, a

[1:14:33] Five Wow death elemental Jason only gets a five Ellie. What do you think on scariness?

[1:14:38] I have similar thoughts to Dan

[1:14:40] But I'm not it's not gonna the number won't be the same the idea of him is so frightening to me

[1:14:44] But I agree that in the actual movies

[1:14:46] It's not that it's never that scary when you see him in action, but the idea of him is so scary

[1:14:51] So actually I'm gonna give him a seven because if it was just the concept of Jason, that's a ten

[1:14:56] but in a lot of the movies, yeah, it's kind of like

[1:14:59] He wouldn't be that hard to get away from even with teleporting. He's kind of gets distracted easily by

[1:15:05] Stuff like he persists all the time, but he's there's something kind of in action. There's something kind of

[1:15:13] Doofy about him compared to the the idea of him. Yeah, he's a star in need of a vehicle

[1:15:19] I'm gonna give him a little bit higher cuz I got you know, he's Jason. I gotta love him

[1:15:25] So I'm giving him an eight. So let's talk about star power for the old old Jason here. What do we think?

[1:15:31] Where does he sit in the star about now? He doesn't talk

[1:15:34] He has a cool outfit, that's the thing I'm gonna I get what's amazing is

[1:15:38] He doesn't talk. Yes little discernible personality. Oh, there's a little bit but not that much there

[1:15:44] His clothes are ripped and gross and they're not cool clothes

[1:15:49] But I got to give him a 10 because the audience is the audience can't be wrong about everything

[1:15:54] He is one of the most iconic characters in horror even with those deficits

[1:15:58] This is a character who doesn't even get the most famous thing about him

[1:16:02] Into the third movie in in the series. He took over a franchise. He didn't start as the killer

[1:16:08] Yeah, yeah. Yeah

[1:16:11] Yeah, it's like it's when it's that he's the original is the original

[1:16:15] Chorus girl who comes back a star, you know taking over the show. I'm gonna have to give a 10

[1:16:20] I mean there's when you ask when you talk to a regular person on the street and you say name a horror movie monster

[1:16:25] It's very likely Jason will be the first or second person that they know if they and probably first

[1:16:30] Yeah, if they and probably Freddy is the other one, you know at this moment

[1:16:34] Yeah, I

[1:16:36] agree

[1:16:37] totally like I not

[1:16:39] My franchise in general, even though I like it, but he's got to get a 10 for this if if anything

[1:16:47] He's the iconic slasher the fact that

[1:16:51] now hockey masks are inherently scary when they weren't before they were just a thing that

[1:16:57] That people who the old-time NHL guys considered to

[1:17:01] Chicken for not letting pucks hit them in the teeth and knock their teeth out of their mouth

[1:17:05] They used to just be a face guard, but he made them totally a scary thing. You called it a hockey mask

[1:17:10] I think most people just called a Jason mask

[1:17:12] Well, that's yeah, exactly. But now they say to goalies at hockey games. So where's your Jason mask?

[1:17:16] They don't even say hockey mask anymore. Yeah, so yeah. Yeah. So yeah, he managed to get the puck past the Jason

[1:17:23] Oh

[1:17:24] Hits him right there good thing. He was wearing a Jason

[1:17:27] Saying the goalies are just called Jason's now

[1:17:30] And it went that David Hockney the English painter is now called David Jason

[1:17:37] Yep, that's that happened. Yeah

[1:17:39] Now I'm gonna see a David Hockney of a nude man jumping into a swimming pool in California, but he's wearing but it's Jason

[1:17:45] He's pretty smashed. Yeah, I mean, it's like yeah the

[1:17:50] So and also I want to point out that in like in Freddy vs. Jason

[1:17:55] Jason kind of de facto becomes the hero of the movie. Yeah, like he kills people but by the end you're like Jason kill Freddy, please

[1:18:05] There's something about him that that's the moment where he crosses over the same way that like Godzilla crossed over

[1:18:09] We're gonna went from the scary part to the hero and I think the fact that Jason is a kid inside, you know inside

[1:18:16] The mind of a child

[1:18:18] Freddy is

[1:18:19] Milk, he loves the simple pleasures like murdering. Yeah, and that Freddy is so much a

[1:18:26] Malicious grown-up whereas Jason similar to Leatherface is kind of like still he's he's a murderer

[1:18:32] But there's still kind of something innocent about him. You know, you can project more more

[1:18:36] Positive feelings onto him. Whereas Freddy's just it. He's an asshole. Like I'll just say it Freddy Krueger's an asshole. Like it's a dick

[1:18:42] Yeah, yeah, you know, there's a

[1:18:46] Charmed a certain charm to bad boys, but you don't necessarily want to be around

[1:18:50] Okay. So yeah, that's that's a 10 for me on star power now on our final lucky dip of the night

[1:18:55] There's no more options. Our last option is Jason Voorhees on a scale of 1 to 10

[1:19:01] How likely are you to ask him for voting advice?

[1:19:08] This is good for Jason, yeah

[1:19:11] I mean, I feel like Jack Torrance is gonna be bad

[1:19:14] Here's the thing I I'm more likely to ask Jason for voting advice then say if it was

[1:19:22] the alien or even you know, cuz like I'm like that's clearly a monster or

[1:19:28] The predator even who looks a little bit more like a man, but like oh, that's an alien

[1:19:33] Citizens, you know

[1:19:36] Exactly

[1:19:37] Where's Jason? There's like a slim chance. I would see him

[1:19:41] Mistake him for just like a regular guy

[1:19:43] Is that hockey would you take a man wandering around in a hockey mask in like a torn-up?

[1:19:50] Postal uniform or whatever it is that he wears. I'm just saying like wet from the lake

[1:19:55] He just crawled out of I'm just putting it on the spectrum of like

[1:20:00] horror villains okay uh-huh yeah now like that like he he looks person like

[1:20:07] you know yeah okay especially from a distance pale man if you just see him

[1:20:15] from a distance you don't know to mask yeah I will also say that I feel like

[1:20:18] Jason has a tendency to go after and target the like assholes first which is

[1:20:24] which is good I like his anti-asshole stance and also the innocent ladies for

[1:20:29] last that he's a real final girl follower yeah and also I feel like he

[1:20:33] would endorse a candidate that has a environmentalist message well see here's

[1:20:39] my issue with Jason is I feel like he's young at heart he's very straightforward

[1:20:43] with his morality I think he's gonna look at things a little bit too much of

[1:20:46] a like simplistic view he's gonna be easy solutions well why don't we just

[1:20:51] stab everybody in the face we can't we could we could handle things that way

[1:20:56] well whereas where's any Jack Torrance I'm getting a huge Trump voter vibes I

[1:21:01] do not want that Jack Torrance is a hundred thousand percent a white man who

[1:21:05] feels left behind and is mad about it Jason I feel like it's gonna be it's the

[1:21:09] the their aspects of I think he's gonna glom on to kind of like the worst

[1:21:14] aspects of the Bernie movement which is the simplicity of it yeah the lack of

[1:21:18] nuance I mean we're ignoring the key issue which is I am unlikely to ask

[1:21:24] advice of someone who cannot talk and to my knowledge also cannot write to

[1:21:30] communicate that's the writer sign of it also it's someone who is who is very

[1:21:34] much a a dead child inside of a inside of a grown zombie his body which he's

[1:21:39] not eligible to vote I don't think yeah so I mean I I'm still if I know nothing

[1:21:46] of Jason you know that I'm mistaken for a man I maybe it I'll give him a two is

[1:21:52] what I'm saying but you're not gonna call him up yeah I'm gonna call him up

[1:21:55] and say Jason I'm having trouble who do I vote for for a county supervisor and

[1:21:59] just turn the phone I guess so hard to hear you what has anyone ever made the

[1:22:08] joke about that that's what Jason's saying as he walks around all the time

[1:22:11] he's just gonna like that it's not supposed to be him I believe that the

[1:22:18] actual thing is that it's actually even though it sounds like it's actually

[1:22:24] it's supposed to sound like mom and like some sort of yeah I watched it

[1:22:30] recently on what for when we did Jason takes Manhattan I had the captions on

[1:22:35] and it said the captions say it's saying JJ JJ says sin sin sin and then kill

[1:22:39] kill kill kill kill and it's very funny to me the idea that like a little like a

[1:22:43] baby the way that my older son when he was little and learning to talk would

[1:22:46] crawl around going dad dad dad dad dad dad dad like he's just trying out words

[1:22:50] I like the idea that Jason is kind of like you know he's a cute little baby

[1:22:54] who kills people so you know what cute little baby who kills people but yeah

[1:23:00] he's not gonna be able to tell you anybody so I'm gonna give him I think

[1:23:02] probably a one on this one what do you say one you know as I said for my

[1:23:06] previous statements I'm gonna give him a four okay okay so let me do one final

[1:23:15] here to tally up our numbers sure should we don't you throw in accounting sound

[1:23:20] yeah okay so it looks like we will give the will give a full ranking probably on

[1:23:33] what Instagram Twitter maybe on our show notes but it looks like with a a whopping

[1:23:41] what number let's start with number three our third highest kind of a

[1:23:46] surprise is Candyman I think the lucky dip really helped him on that kill all

[1:23:51] those teens yeah that was a real lucky break for him that way in some ways an

[1:23:54] unfair poll for Candyman with yeah with 72 for Candyman number two pinhead iconic

[1:24:02] villain yeah that's that's a good one for old pinhead right not surprising not

[1:24:06] surprising class and everything that's 76 and then just beating him out with 79

[1:24:13] that's the Babadook I think that says a lot it's a well-made movie it did not

[1:24:18] have any sequels to kind of water down the message yeah that's uh looks like

[1:24:24] Babadook takes it for the power rankings on a horror movie villains this is what

[1:24:28] this is one of the times when I find that I find that rank the rank the

[1:24:31] numbers don't tell my heart which is that the xenomorph should at the very

[1:24:35] least be in the top two but maybe next time maybe next time what did we ask

[1:24:40] him to do help us move not not playing to his strength Stuart introduced it

[1:24:46] originally these were the 2023 rankings just to me at first that this was that

[1:24:52] these were gonna be rankings of 2023 movies but no these are apparently only

[1:24:57] this year's rankings Elliot so you can take that next year the xenomorph could

[1:25:03] take it all the way that's gonna be xenomorphs here yeah yeah 2024 might be

[1:25:07] the year of the morph speaking of morphing this is a lot of fun I'm glad

[1:25:13] we got through this this is podcast we are part of the max fun podcast network

[1:25:20] check out all the cool shows that are on there the show has been lovingly edited

[1:25:24] and curated by mr. Alexander Smith goes by Lydia Burrell on various social media

[1:25:29] platforms Thank You Alex so for the floppers I've been Stuart Wellington

[1:25:33] I've been Dan McCoy I'm Elliot Kaelin

[1:25:59] the light form that I'd like to meet rising up in front of me I beheld an

[1:26:05] eerie glow but it was just the neon sign of the bar where I'd like to go

[1:26:12] he's about to find a slimy beast with a dirty mind a body with the body from

[1:26:17] beyond the stars from a distant planet called supermarked

[1:26:22] the

[1:26:29] in the door with my collar

[1:26:34] order up a drink and some liver shot out the corner of my eye something glistened

[1:26:41] and gleamed it was the techno organic creature of my dreams

[1:26:49] across the place when he saw the little things have a bigger face she had a

[1:26:53] drink he had to take but she had a third face inside a little face

[1:27:19] I'm shaking like a leaf but I gotta stay cool

[1:27:30] get burnt by her acidic drool I touch her skeletal knee and say hello

[1:27:38] gesture to the door and say

[1:27:43] he was the luckiest of men little did he know he'd never see him again she stole

[1:27:47] his heart ripped him in two played an egg in his tummy don't let this happen to

[1:27:51] you don't let this happen to you she was a Xenomorph Xenomorph super sexy Xenomorph

[1:27:58] sexy Xenomorph so dangerous super sexy Xenomorph Xenomorph Xenomorph super sexy Xenomorph

[1:28:07] sexy Xenomorph so dangerous super sexy Xenomorph

[1:28:12] Xenomorph Xenomorph Xenomorph Xenomorph

[1:28:30] oh oh yeah no no no no no its cool there's no one else around, just me and you

[1:28:38] No, Eliza, I want to see you

[1:28:41] oh oh there is a second face, oh for me?

[1:28:47] Xenomorph Xenomorph Super Sexy Xenomorph Xenomorph Xenomorph Super Sexy Xenomorph Xenomorph Xenomorph

[1:29:00] Xenomorph Xenomorph Super Sexy Xenomorph Xenomorph Super Sexy Xenomorph Xenomorph Super Sexy Xenomorph Xenomorph Xenomorph Super Sexy Xenomorph Xenomorph Xenomorph Super Sexy Xenomorph

[1:29:25] Xenomorph Xenomorph Super Sexy Xenomorph Xenomorph

[1:29:31] It was worth it.

[1:29:34] Maximum Fun

[1:29:35] A worker-owned network

[1:29:36] Of artist-owned shows

[1:29:38] Supported

[1:29:39] Directly

[1:29:40] By you

FH Mini 91 – Best Horror Villains, Part 2

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