Ep.#408 - Waterworld, with Todd Vaziri

Stuart Wellington

[0:00] On this episode, we discuss Waterworld.

[0:04] Inspired by the animated series Pirates of Dark Water.

[0:08] Not really, but I just want to, you know.

[0:30] Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Flophouse. I'm Dan McCoy.

Elliott Kalan

[0:40] And I'm Stuart Wellington.

[0:41] I'm Ellie Kaelin. Later on, I'll tell you about Flop TV, our monthly Flop Online Broadcasting Internet series.

[0:47] But first, guys, we've got a special guest with us on this episode today.

[0:52] Who is it?

[0:52] Are you ready for an introduction?

[0:54] Yeah, sure. Introduce me, please.

[0:56] I'll do it.

[0:56] To the guest.

[0:57] This is someone we should have had a long time ago, a real luminary in the world of movie production and movie effects.

[1:05] That's right. Visual effects artist and supervisor, Todd Vaziri.

[1:09] He's worked on all your favorite movies.

[1:11] Soldier, the 1999 Midsummer Night's Dream, Stir of Echoes, all your favorite films.

[1:17] Stir of Echoes?

[1:18] Yeah.

[1:20] I like Stir of Echoes quite a lot.

[1:21] And he's spent the past, what, Todd, like 20 years working on, it seems like, every single major motion picture that gets released.

[1:28] Yeah, you named a few of them.

Dan McCoy

[1:30] Yeah, that's really good.

[1:32] Now, what would be –

[1:33] A highlight reel, yeah.

[1:34] If you were going to give a highlight reel, Todd, what would you pick?

S4

[1:38] Well, he neglected, you know, Bones and Driven and the 2000 Dungeons and Dragons.

[1:45] You know, there's a few – you could keep scraping.

Elliott Kalan

[1:47] I was going to mention Bones, but it's true.

[1:49] Todd has mentioned us.

[1:50] He is the – one of only two effects artists who have worked on both Dungeons and Dragons movies.

[1:54] Whoa.

[1:54] But you had much more of a hand in the most recent one.

[1:57] You were very much in charge for that one.

[1:59] That's right.

S4

[2:00] The reason the first one wasn't that great had nothing to do with me, and the reason why this one was good had almost everything to do with me.

[2:06] Everything.

Dan McCoy

[2:07] Yes.

[2:08] Also, I hold Brook no dismissal of Bones, which I saw recently and thought was pretty fun.

[2:14] I like that movie.

S4

[2:14] It's kind of wild.

[2:15] I mean, you go in with the right expectations.

[2:18] Bones is fine.

Stuart Wellington

[2:19] Yeah.

[2:20] So in the original Dungeons and Dragons, you did all the animation for The Beholders, right?

S4

[2:25] Okay.

[2:25] I'm going to tell you that I know what a Beholder is.

[2:28] I don't.

[2:29] I don't know what a Beholder is.

[2:30] That's the thing.

[2:31] I knew nothing about Dungeons and Dragons going into that movie, and I know nothing about Dungeons and Dragons going into this movie.

[2:36] So I did – there's a big end battle at the end.

[2:40] The mages make, like, fireballs, and they throw fireballs, and I was just making up stuff.

[2:45] I'm like, I don't know.

[2:45] I'm going to make these fireballs appear, and then they throw it.

[2:49] I was just making up stuff, and I remember reading some of the comments from fans from that original 2000 Dungeons and Dragons movie and saying,

[2:57] whoever did those mages' fireballs, they totally get Dungeons and Dragons.

[3:03] And I'm like, hey, sure, I was just making stuff up.

[3:08] So, sure.

Stuart Wellington

[3:08] That's great.

[3:09] So let's pull out our player's handbook and make some characters so I can introduce you to the world of Dungeons and Dragons.

Elliott Kalan

[3:15] That's all Stuart's going to be thinking about for the whole rest of the episode.

[3:20] Todd, thanks so much for coming.

[3:21] We've talked about some movies you've worked on, but we have never gone after the effects because they always look great.

[3:31] Even when the, let's say, story – supporting those effects is not up to snuff.

[3:36] But we apologize for the movies that we have talked about of yours in the past.

S4

[3:39] Don't.

[3:40] Because, you know, you guys – I've been a big fan.

[3:43] If I may have an opening statement for a second, it's such an honor to be here.

[3:47] I'll yield some of my time to you.

[3:49] Yeah, okay.

[3:49] Thank you very much.

[3:50] Unprecedented.

[3:51] I know.

[3:52] I just – it's such an honor to be here.

[3:54] And, you know, you hear – one of your favorite podcasts is a show where, you know, three guys make fun of a movie, how bad it is.

[4:02] And it's like that sounds kind of gross, you know, on the surface, but you guys love movies and there's – it's all out of love and it's not cruel.

[4:12] And if anybody understands that it's a team effort, that there's a lot of people involved and any number of things could go wrong at any point, you know, it's all out of love for movies.

[4:25] And I'm just – I'm really happy to be here.

[4:27] So I never take that kind of stuff personally.

Dan McCoy

[4:29] I'm glad that you say that because this is the number one.

[4:32] One thing I struggle with with the premise of our show is like as a girl older, I'm like, I don't know.

[4:38] Why do we have to be mean to anything?

[4:40] I mean, I don't think we are.

[4:41] But like even the appearance of cruelty.

Elliott Kalan

[4:43] Dan's even the least mean out of all of us.

[4:45] Yeah, and Dan's the one who's always like, this movie's okay.

[4:48] But I think each of us goes into watching these movies secretly hoping that we're going to be like, this was good.

[4:53] We liked this one.

[4:54] And it's a disappointment when they're not.

[4:56] So the premise of the show is that we watch a bad movie and we talk about it.

[4:59] Today, we're going to watch a movie that, Todd, you specifically asked for.

[5:03] You requested this film.

[5:05] And that film is?

[5:07] Water World.

[5:08] That's right.

[5:09] Water World.

[5:10] The movie that very briefly put Kevin Costner's career quite off track.

[5:15] I guess the postman was like Water World but with the mail.

[5:18] It was the one that really put him off track.

[5:20] Yeah.

[5:20] Three of those together.

[5:21] Yeah, for a little bit.

Stuart Wellington

[5:21] It was a winding road for him to get all the way to Jellystone so he could rehabilitate that image.

[5:27] It's the movie that asked you.

Elliott Kalan

[5:28] It was Jellystone and he was the park ranger and he's like, got to take down those bears.

Dan McCoy

[5:33] It's the movie that asks you, what if the world but waterier?

[5:38] And you're like, well, the world's pretty watery as it is.

[5:40] It's like, no, no.

[5:41] You have no idea.

[5:42] No, no.

[5:42] Real watery.

[5:43] Like just super wet.

[5:45] Just so moist.

[5:46] Yeah.

[5:46] Just dripping.

Elliott Kalan

[5:48] Sultry.

Stuart Wellington

[5:49] So Todd, what is it about Water World?

[5:50] The world owes you.

Elliott Kalan

[5:54] The world is pretty runny.

[5:56] The juices of the earth.

[5:59] So Todd, what was it about Water World that you wanted to talk about today?

S4

[6:01] Well, I kind of figured maybe something with a visual effects slant to it because I think it's actually a very –

[6:08] it takes place in production at an interesting time for visual effects when we were moving away from purely optical effects

[6:17] and optical compositing and getting into the digital world where this is a couple years after Jurassic Park.

[6:24] And its contemporaries are movies like Twister and, let's see, 1996, Independence Day, things like that.

[6:33] So we're slowly getting into the digital world where simple digital effects were still not so simple.

[6:42] So it's kind of like a bridge between two worlds.

[6:45] I thought that would be an interesting way to look at it.

[6:47] I mean, when folks talk about the most infamous flops of all time, Water World's usually in the discussion.

[6:55] And we can get into the definition of what the flop means in this particular case.

[7:01] So – and I also – I remember seeing it and going, okay.

[7:05] I mean, it wasn't terrible.

[7:07] I mean, I'm a big Kevin Costner fan and I sort of – I didn't come out of it going, what a stinker.

Dan McCoy

[7:14] It had its problems.

[7:15] This was infamous.

[7:17] I mean, it was – what was it?

[7:17] Fish Tar was one of them?

[7:19] And was it Kevin's Gate?

[7:20] Was this as well?

[7:22] Or was that –

Elliott Kalan

[7:22] Well, and I think that was – yeah, they called this Kevin's Gate and Fish Tar.

[7:25] Because he killed a bunch of people?

[7:26] Yeah, yeah, because a bunch of people – well, he convinced them to commit suicide so they could ride the Water World, which he said was going to be a roller coaster at Universal Studios.

[7:34] It turned out to be a stunt show.

[7:35] So he couldn't really ride it.

[7:37] Can we talk about the stunt show?

[7:39] No, we'll talk about the stunt show, which I never got to see and I regret it.

[7:41] I've heard none of them great things about it.

[7:43] But it definitely was one of those movies like Ishtar and like Heaven's Gate where the discussion about it became so much about how much it cost that the actual quality of the film, whether it was good or not, was already at a deficit.

[7:56] Because there's something about movie critics, especially in the past.

[7:59] I feel like now movies are so routinely expensive that it's not as big a thing.

[8:04] But back then, if a movie cost a lot of money, movie critics did not like that.

[8:08] It made them very mad ahead of time.

[8:10] And they hated the idea that –

S4

[8:11] It dominated the discussion.

[8:12] Yeah.

[8:12] Pre-release.

[8:13] It's every – this is back then.

[8:16] So Premier Magazine and Entertainment Weekly, it's like it cost this much money.

[8:20] It cost overruns, scheduling overruns.

[8:22] It's like that's now what the movie – what defines the movie.

[8:26] Yeah.

[8:27] And so –

Dan McCoy

[8:27] It's also weird that like they cared so much because they would act as if it was some sort of like moral failing or like there was some hazard associated with it.

[8:36] When it's like, well, if the studio loses money, then that's on them.

[8:41] You know, like that's fine.

[8:43] They are risking it.

[8:45] And in the meantime, this movie is employing people.

[8:48] You know, it's like what are you mad about per se like in real terms, you know?

S4

[8:54] I've never understood this like, oh, I can't believe that movie cost this much money.

[8:58] And it's like, well, unless you're a shareholder.

[9:00] I mean, who cares?

[9:01] If you like watching movies, you know, the last thing on your mind is what's the price tag of this movie?

Elliott Kalan

[9:09] If I was a conspiratorial type of person, which I was as a teenager when Waterworld came out, but I'm not now.

[9:16] I would say that a certain type of corporate media is using the – was using the high budgets of movies to direct the anger of people over the frivolous use of wealth by the wealthy towards Hollywood stuff, which is relatively harmless as opposed to the real 1% of things.

[9:38] And I feel like that's the kind of anger – now it feels like these Marvel movies cost a lot of money.

[9:42] But like, I don't know, that dude has $100 billion and is trying to colonize another planet so that he can have like brain slaves.

[9:49] That seems worse.

[9:50] I feel like there's a greater understanding now of what's a truly immoral use of money.

Dan McCoy

[9:54] Well, I mean also, for whatever reason, like success justifies itself where it's like, you know, like the Marvel movies, like they make back a tremendous amount of money too.

[10:05] So like no one's like, well, what a waste, you know?

[10:08] It's like, yay, you know, return on investment, you know?

[10:11] It's a weird sort of place where as long as the capitalism works correctly, like people are like, okay.

[10:19] But if someone spends a lot of money on a flop, it's like anger rather than just like, well, that's what happens.

Elliott Kalan

[10:26] This was also – I think Kevin Costner was due for the period in every American star's life when they reach a height of success and people want to take them down.

[10:34] I think he – it was a little – this was like kind of still the hangover from Dances with Wolves where he won Best Director, which is bonkers, which is objectively bonkers.

[10:45] I know –

[10:45] Yeah.

[10:46] And so I think people were ready for him to fail at this.

[10:49] I think a lot of people thought he was directing this movie because the director's name is also Kevin, which he was not.

Stuart Wellington

[10:54] And also the director – at some point there's a rumor that your director was ousted and Kevin Costner finished the film.

Dan McCoy

[11:01] Yeah, if you read behind the scenes, like it seems like whether or not he actually directed any of it, he was taking an extremely heavy producer's hand in it.

[11:11] Yeah.

S4

[11:12] Yeah.

[11:12] The knives were being sharpened for him.

[11:15] I mean it was celebrity culture, you know, royal culture.

[11:19] They love their stars and then they also love to tear them down.

[11:22] And after, you know, Dances with Wolves, big hit, Oscar winning and Robin Hood –

[11:29] It was Prince of Thieves before this.

[11:30] Right?

[11:31] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[11:31] It was right before this because that was like 91, right?

[11:33] Or 92?

[11:34] Yeah.

[11:34] Right.

S4

[11:35] Yeah.

[11:35] You know, before that it was Untouchables.

[11:37] I mean, you know, Bull Durham I think was before this.

[11:40] So he's riding high and then, you know, big budget fiasco, shooting on water, cost overruns, the hurricanes destroying the set.

[11:50] I mean that's – and I'm glad we're talking about this before we talk about the movie because this is all the pre-release mumbo-jumbo that was dominated.

Elliott Kalan

[11:59] Everyone heard ahead of time this is a disaster before the movie had come out yet.

[12:02] And let's just say it.

[12:03] Gene Triplehorn has made a lot of powerful enemies.

[12:05] There were a lot of people with their knives out for Gene Triplehorn ready to take her down too.

[12:09] She has three horns.

[12:11] How dare she have three?

[12:13] There's so many more Americans with zero horns.

[12:15] Exactly.

[12:16] You wish I had three hands.

Dan McCoy

[12:20] Grab each of the horns.

[12:21] It's –

[12:22] Well, it's like they say, grab the Gene by the triple horns.

Stuart Wellington

[12:26] Yeah.

[12:26] Now, did you guys see this movie in the – I remember seeing it in the theater and being like, no, that was good.

[12:31] I don't know what people are complaining about.

Elliott Kalan

[12:32] I saw it in the theater and I was like, that was a fun action science fiction movie.

[12:35] I mean even at that time I had an idea in my head that it was kind of Mad Max-y and then I kind of got into – really got into the Mad Max movies and I was like, oh yeah, Waterworld is very Mad Max-y.

[12:47] But I remember watching it, yeah, when it was in the theaters and being like, that was fun.

Dan McCoy

[12:50] Yeah, I saw it on HBO when I was new to like premium – I was like, this is fine.

[12:56] Like I do think it either needs to be longer or shorter.

[13:02] But it was okay.

[13:05] Yeah.

S4

[13:06] Yeah.

[13:06] I also saw it in the theaters and I was like, you know, I have my problems with this.

[13:09] But some stuff was pretty wacky and some of it was actually like really good.

[13:14] And then there's some tonal problems, which is probably my biggest problem with the movie.

[13:19] Yes.

[13:20] Spoiler alert.

[13:20] But just tone, inconsistent tone.

[13:23] Very inconsistent.

[13:23] Which we'll get into.

Elliott Kalan

[13:24] So, but yeah.

[13:26] It's a movie that especially by the end, it's like, oh, this feels like a different – tonally this is a different movie than it was when it started.

[13:32] Yeah, that's true.

[13:33] So, let's talk about it, guys.

[13:34] Now, out of – this is – I'm going to tell you about the experiment that I did.

[13:37] Out of curiosity and because I wanted to kind of compare my experience to yours, I watched the extended cut of the film, which was recreated using footage that was used in the television release, which is longer than the original.

[13:49] Because I wanted to get a sense – because originally this movie was going to be three hours long and the studio was like, Kevin Costner's last movie was three hours long.

[13:57] Like we're not doing any more of this three-hour Kevin Costner stuff.

[13:59] And so, they cut it way down to two hours and 15 minutes.

[14:03] And I wanted to compare it to your guys' experience of watching the theatrical cut, which is what I assumed you watched because that's the one that's more readily available.

[14:09] Okay.

[14:10] Yeah.

[14:10] So, let's talk through it.

[14:12] Whenever I get to a scene that isn't in the theatrical cut, I want you to yell, Kevin, and I'll stop.

[14:19] Okay.

[14:20] You don't have to yell, Kevin, but you can.

[14:21] I don't know.

[14:23] Or just go –

[14:23] Kevin!

[14:25] Yeah, exactly.

[14:26] I want you to go, Kevin!

[14:29] Like you've just forgotten.

[14:29] Kevin Costner at home when you went on a holiday.

[14:32] So, we open with the Universal Logo Globe, which floods.

[14:36] Oh, no.

[14:37] The sea levels are rising on the Universal Logo.

Stuart Wellington

[14:39] As a kid, this blew my fucking mind apart.

Elliott Kalan

[14:42] I love it.

[14:43] Anytime a movie plays with the logo of the studio, I love it.

[14:46] As a kid, I loved it.

[14:47] I still love it.

[14:47] Still, you know, I loved it when Cat Bellew shows up at the beginning of Cat Bellew instead of the Columbia logo.

[14:53] I liked it in Into the Spider-Verse when Cat Bellew showed up instead of the Columbia logo.

[14:56] Great stuff.

[14:57] I love that animated Cat Bellew.

Stuart Wellington

[14:59] It's like how for years I would lean over and tell my movie-going companion that the New Line logo is the new one that the Lord of the Rings production fixed for the New Line studios.

Elliott Kalan

[15:10] I like it when Dark Phoenix reaches up and cracks the X-Men logo on the cover of the book.

[15:15] I like it when you mess with the logos.

[15:17] Anyway.

[15:17] Or the Hulk.

[15:17] When the Hulk is like –

[15:18] When the Hulk is like either supporting his logo or smashing it.

[15:22] Yeah.

S4

[15:22] Great.

[15:23] I was lucky enough to mess with the opening titles of the Universal logo for another great film, Van Helsing.

[15:29] Which we did.

[15:30] The letters come up and then they all get burned up individually and melt away and there's an iris to the first shot and I got to do that.

[15:40] That was a lot of fun.

[15:42] They didn't even provide me with a clean version of the Universal logo.

[15:45] It still had like a Comcast company or an MCA logo.

[15:48] So I had to paint that out of the thing.

[15:52] So I was like, yeah, great.

[15:53] But yeah, I'm a sucker for the custom studio logo stuff.

Elliott Kalan

[15:58] I feel like it shows you that they're doing something special with the movie.

[16:01] They're going a little bit beyond.

[16:03] Yeah, like Van Helsing.

[16:04] Like Van Helsing.

[16:05] Did you work on the Dark Universe logo from The Mummy where it says Universal and then it spins around and says Dark Universe?

[16:11] Because I think they expected to get more use out of that logo than they got.

[16:14] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[16:15] Wait.

[16:17] Wait.

[16:17] They were only – they were expecting to make more than just what?

[16:20] Two movies?

[16:21] I mean they only really made one of them too.

[16:24] Yeah, what do you mean more out of the universe than two?

Elliott Kalan

[16:26] Dracula Untold was kind of – was going to be it and then they kind of like – they were like, uh, that wasn't the real –

[16:31] That was a soft opening.

[16:32] The real – yeah, yeah, exactly.

[16:34] Of the Dark Universe.

[16:35] That was – that's the –

[16:37] Friends and family of the Dark Universe.

[16:40] Of the Dark Universe.

[16:41] You know what, guys?

Dan McCoy

[16:42] Our universe is dark enough as it is.

[16:44] We don't need an extra Dark Universe floating around.

[16:46] Have you seen the news?

[16:47] Yeah.

[16:48] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[16:48] Topical.

[16:49] We need all the light we cannot see.

[16:50] Anyway, there's a voiceover that tells us the ice caps have flooded.

[16:53] In the future, those who survive have adapted to a new world.

[16:56] How do they adapt?

[16:57] Well, we see as on an ocean-going catamaran, a lone sailor pees in a cup, pours it into a filter, and then drinks the water that comes out.

[17:04] That's how they've adapted.

[17:05] They drink their own pee in the future.

[17:06] That's our hero.

S4

[17:07] I'm going to derail you right off the bat.

[17:09] Okay, so the narration.

[17:11] Yeah.

[17:11] There was no telling of a prophecy, no on-screen titles or story or anything like that.

[17:16] But a narration that they don't do anywhere else in the movie.

[17:20] Yes.

[17:20] I actually wonder – I don't think it was required.

[17:24] I think it would have been a lot more mysterious if they just kind of – that's how they started the movie.

[17:28] Not like they're going to do a bait-and-switch, like a spoiler alert Planet of the Apes kind of a thing.

[17:32] But just like it could have been a little bit more mysterious, but they just wanted to say the future.

[17:38] Yes.

[17:38] Polarized gaps melted.

[17:39] I just – if you just take out that narration, I wonder how the film would have been perceived a little bit differently.

[17:47] Just like my favorite one to think about is Predator, the opening shot of the spaceship launching, lifting, sending something on to Earth.

[17:57] If that shot wasn't in the movie, how different the movie would have been – if you didn't know anything about the marketing going into it, how it would have been perceived differently.

[18:05] You're like, whoa, does this guy just live here?

Elliott Kalan

[18:08] Is he natural to this Earth?

[18:10] Well, but that is the kind of question that you get from studios all the time.

[18:14] I imagine this.

[18:14] They're like, how are people going to know this takes place in the future and not like on some alien planet?

[18:18] It's like, well, they'll watch the movie and they'll see if there's copies of National Geographic hanging around.

[18:22] Right.

[18:22] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[18:23] And like, spoiler alert, later on, one of the big reveals is that the polar ice caps melted and people live on water and that all the cities are flooded.

[18:33] Are underwater.

[18:33] Like, that's a huge emotional reveal for one of the characters.

[18:36] Right.

[18:37] So it's weird that we, the audience, are like, yeah, we fucking know that, dude.

[18:41] I mean, I don't want to –

[18:42] That guy at the beginning.

[18:42] He told me.

[18:43] Yeah, the guy told us.

Dan McCoy

[18:45] Like, I don't usually like to make assumptions, but it is one of those things where I'm like, this probably was added.

[18:50] Like, you know?

[18:50] Oh, for certain.

Elliott Kalan

[18:51] I doubt the screenplay had that.

[18:53] Yeah.

[18:53] My guess is that they just didn't want anyone confused right off the bat, that they had either had a test audience or were worried about a test audience that people would not – would be wondering what's going on rather than following the story.

[19:04] This one doesn't bother me that much because it's so quick.

[19:06] Yeah.

[19:06] And it's not – it doesn't give you a lot of information.

[19:09] It's tidy.

[19:09] It's very tidy, but it is unnecessary.

[19:11] So anyway, the Mariner drinks his own pee.

[19:13] He's kind of a surly loner.

[19:14] This is our hero, Kevin Costner.

[19:15] I think the only movie in his filmography where he drinks his own pee, and he has a confrontation with another lone sailor.

[19:21] I'll look it up.

[19:22] Yeah, please.

[19:23] Yeah, just do – can you do a Google search for Kevin Costner drink pee and just tell me what comes up?

[19:28] Tin cup.

[19:29] What do you think was in the cup?

[19:31] Yeah, good point.

[19:33] That's why he's like, I need a new tin cup.

[19:35] The uric acid is eaten away at the bottom of my tin cup.

[19:38] Yeah.

[19:39] So he has a confrontation with another lone sailor who steals the Mariner's limes.

[19:44] But it's okay.

[19:45] Cosmic Justice, they're both ambushed by smokers who are essentially pirates.

[19:50] And they're not – they don't really smoke.

[19:52] But I guess they do smoke at different points.

[19:54] They do.

[19:54] They do smoke cigarettes all the time.

[19:55] They do smoke cigarettes a lot, but they're essentially pirates.

[19:59] It's funny that the thing that they're called is about the fact that they smoke cigarettes, which they do, and Dennis Hopper's character throws them out as reward stuff, and not the fact that they're pirates.

[20:06] But anyway, Kevin Costner's –

Dan McCoy

[20:08] And this is the first – like this is the first example of Kevin Costner's Mariner being a hard man in this hard world because he just races away.

[20:17] He's like, you know, you got what you deserve for stealing my limes, getting killed, and he'll do some surprisingly cruel things in this movie.

S4

[20:25] It's a brutal opening.

[20:28] Yeah.

[20:28] First you see him drinking his pee.

[20:30] You see him all alone, no dialogue.

[20:32] I actually really love that stuff.

[20:33] You're just kind of figuring out what's on his boat, what's on – and then he meets that guy, and he just basically signs that guy's death warrant.

[20:41] Yes.

[20:43] He gets him killed, and he barely even looks back.

[20:46] He's like, uh-huh.

[20:47] And I'm like – I'm like raring to go.

[20:50] I'm like, this is pretty good.

[20:51] I mean the elephant in the room in this whole thing is Mad Max, the road warrior.

[20:56] Sorry, Ozzy.

[20:57] Yes.

[20:57] I know of it as the road warrior.

[20:58] I know it's really called Mad Max 2.

[21:01] But I'm just going to have to say the road warrior a million times and who is a – you know, the titular Mad Maximus is a brutal guy who learns, you know, seeks and finds his humanity.

[21:14] And I'm like, okay, this is a Mad Max ripoff.

[21:16] Sure, on the water.

[21:18] Go for it.

[21:18] And it's a pretty solid start.

Elliott Kalan

[21:20] I think it is.

[21:21] I mean it's a – even going farther back than Mad Max, this is a classic Western trope.

[21:25] The bad man or the hard man learns how to love.

[21:28] But the aesthetic of this is so Mad Max on the water in a way that is hard to –

Dan McCoy

[21:35] Yeah, right down to like occasionally a little bit like the kooky character, you know.

[21:40] The guy with the big glasses or whatever, you know.

Elliott Kalan

[21:43] But of all the many – well, literally there's a guy who's firing a machine gun who just gets super into it and crazy and is firing all over the place.

[21:51] And he's got like a mask that looks like a pig's nose.

[21:54] And it's like, yeah, this is like – this is straight out of George Miller.

[21:57] But of all the Mad Max ripoffs, this is the one that does it the best I think.

[22:00] Stuart, what were you going to say?

[22:01] Sorry, I cut you off.

Stuart Wellington

[22:02] I was going to say that also like with this opening, we get a hint of the like workings of his ship.

[22:09] A thing that like as a kid I was like fascinated by.

[22:12] This like incredible cross sections like how does this fucking – how does this guy's cool life work with all these gizmos and gadgets and crap?

[22:19] There's all this police and steampunk stuff and stuff.

Elliott Kalan

[22:22] But anyway, he does – he wrecks the other guy's ship, leaves him to be killed by the smokers.

[22:27] Truly, as the Mariner has said, nothing's free on Waterworld.

[22:30] I think it is kind of dumb that they call it Waterworld.

[22:32] But anyway, the Mariner, he stops at this artificial atoll town.

[22:36] It's kind of like a little fortress.

[22:37] And he's let in because he has a jar of ultra-valuable dirt to sell them.

[22:41] And he exchanges it for chits that he can use to buy hydro, which is what they call water.

[22:46] Even though they call it Waterworld, water is no longer the word used for water, which is interesting.

[22:51] They don't say Hydroworld.

Dan McCoy

[22:52] I want to say even though this trip will eventually go bad for the Mariner, I was sort of surprised by how much society still seemed to be functioning.

[23:04] Because like this guy arrives with a bunch of dirt and they don't immediately just kill him for all that dirt that they want.

[23:11] There's an exchange of dirt for chits and no one is like robbing him.

Elliott Kalan

[23:17] It's very much the town in the Road Warrior where the good people live, where there's still some people who want a real society.

[23:23] And in the extended version, there's a lot of talk about that.

[23:28] Like you see more of this town and you see the people kind of running it a little bit more.

[23:32] But anyway, we'll get to that.

[23:33] He buys it from Helen, Jean Triplehorn, who's a kind of tough shopkeeper who takes care of Enola, a little girl who has a strange tattoo on her back that is clearly a map.

[23:43] But everyone is like, we can't – we don't understand it.

[23:45] We don't know how to read this thing.

Stuart Wellington

[23:46] It kind of looks like Yosemite Sam saying back off, right?

[23:50] Yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[23:51] She has a tattoo on her back of Calvin peeing on ground.

Dan McCoy

[23:54] It's a prophecy that says, you will grow up to be Matt on Veronica Mars.

[23:59] Yeah, that's what it says.

[24:01] Oh, shit.

[24:02] Really?

Elliott Kalan

[24:03] Yeah, that's her.

[24:04] Tina Majorino.

[24:05] In the extended version of this, there's just more conversation.

[24:08] He talks to Helen Moore.

[24:10] There's a guy there who we'll find out later is the henchman of the villain and they have a longer conversation.

[24:15] Anyway, the mariner, he wants to leave.

S4

[24:17] Is this the scene where he's walking around and – oh, he's got his ski boots on that he salvaged from the bottom of the ocean.

[24:24] Which is if anybody's put on ski boots, it's like, I don't know.

[24:26] I'd kind of rather go barefoot.

[24:28] I'm not going to walk around on ski boots.

Elliott Kalan

[24:30] Well, he's got to hide his feet as we find – there's also – I mean, this is the thing with like the golden age sandman.

[24:34] That sounds like a thing a Muto would not – would do.

[24:37] Yeah, the golden age sandman who has a gas mask for a mask.

[24:40] It looks really cool, but it's like those are hard to wear.

[24:42] Like it's hard to see and breathe out of those.

S4

[24:44] For every – one of these details that I kind of liked is when he was like – he's stepping up to the bar, to Helen's bar, and he kind of stumbles.

[24:52] He just – I never interpreted that as like him with the boots.

[24:56] It's just that he's not used to being on a relatively stationary ground.

[25:01] And I love that kind of detail, but then it's undercut previously when he's like, hey, I've got dirt.

[25:07] He holds up the dirt and he pulls out a big giant handful and he just lets it go in the wind.

[25:12] I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[25:14] And then the very next scene is him bartering and the guy takes a giant handful and eats it.

[25:18] It's like, you can't – you can't do that.

[25:22] This is valuable shit, man.

Elliott Kalan

[25:24] Yeah.

[25:25] It's inconsistent in some ways.

Dan McCoy

[25:27] There's a lot of like weird – we'll meet Dennis Hopper who's constantly.

[25:31] He's smoking cigarettes.

[25:32] I'm like, where are you getting all these cigarettes?

Elliott Kalan

[25:34] Yeah.

[25:35] And in the extended version, he like – he's obsessed with golf and he's watching golf videos on a TV that he has rigged up.

[25:42] And it's like – I don't know.

[25:43] The movie also makes it clear.

[25:45] This is hundreds of years after civilization has fallen apart.

[25:48] Like nobody remembers the old civilization.

[25:50] None of this technology should work anymore at all.

[25:54] But anyway, but it's a movie.

[25:56] What are you going to do?

[25:56] It's a movie about a fisherman because as we find out, the town elders are like, hey, before you leave,

[26:01] can you impregnate a local so we can add to our genetic stock?

[26:04] And then they notice he has gills.

[26:05] He's a muto.

[26:06] And they try to lynch him.

[26:07] But the sheriff of the Atoll, who thinks he's the hero of the movie, but the movie is going to ignore him for vast swaths of it.

[26:14] They lock him up.

[26:15] Sheriff locks up Kevin Costner in a cage.

[26:19] And now here's a scene.

[26:20] I don't know if you guys saw where the townspeople are debating what to do with him and whether to kill him or not.

[26:24] And they found all these devices on his ship that they assume are weapons.

[26:28] And it's like a yo-yo and like a thigh master.

[26:31] And they're like, these are clearly torture devices.

[26:33] And it's kind of a dumb joke about how they misunderstand what these artifacts are.

[26:37] It's great.

[26:38] And Helen comes in.

[26:39] She says, our way of life is our dying.

[26:42] There used to be all these other Atolls.

[26:43] We don't hear from them anymore.

[26:44] What's going on?

[26:45] We have fewer supplies.

[26:46] So a theme in this one that I think is not quite there in the theatrical is that mankind is doing the same thing over again.

[26:54] It's a new civilization that's still based on overconsumption and still not based on sustainability.

[26:59] And so it's entered this cycle of – and it's something that the deacon complains about later, as I'll talk about.

[27:04] Like they've entered the cycle again of destroying their world around them.

[27:08] And it's an interesting theme that I feel like is not – even in the extended one, it's not quite super gracefully done.

[27:14] But it's an interesting way for them to bring it in.

[27:16] But we don't have time for that because we're going to introduce to maybe the most annoying character in the movie possibly, Gregor, played by Michael Jeter, who normally I love.

[27:24] Oh.

[27:25] He's kind of like a kooky, forgetful scientist who's like Helen's surrogate father.

S4

[27:29] Elliot, have you ever seen Michael Jeter on stage?

Elliott Kalan

[27:33] I've seen – the only thing I've seen of him on stage is the performance he did at the Tonys when he won for Grand Hotel.

Dan McCoy

[27:41] Okay.

[27:41] That counts.

[27:42] I think my affection for him – I don't know.

[27:45] I didn't find this guy – I mean he's basically – this is basically like him and the Fisher King but Matt Maxified.

Elliott Kalan

[27:51] It is, but I think you're missing a lot of – in this version of it, the one I watch, there's a lot of him kind of bumbling around and knocking things over and going, oh, but where's this?

[27:59] Oh, but I lost it.

[28:00] Oh.

[28:00] And I'm like a little of this goes a long way.

S4

[28:02] I had to look where he was born and where he grew up and it says Tennessee.

[28:07] And I don't think it's from the same world as Gru from Despicable Me, which is essentially what his accent is in this movie.

[28:15] Yeah.

[28:16] Yeah.

[28:16] There's no reason for him to have that accent.

Elliott Kalan

[28:18] It doesn't make any sense to me what – like Dennis Hopper has a heavy southern accent in this.

[28:22] Like they all have different accents.

[28:23] Kevin Costner has this weird accent that comes and goes throughout the movie.

[28:26] Yeah.

[28:26] And he goes southern every once in a while too.

[28:28] Yeah.

[28:28] And it's like why – I don't understand why these accents – like that's not how accents work.

[28:33] Like why are they genetically inherited accents that Gregor is from – like he's – because he's from Eastern European stock, I guess.

[28:40] He has this kind of like Gru accent.

[28:42] But anyway.

[28:44] But Gregor goes and talks to him.

[28:46] The mariner – this is when we see the mariner has webbed feet.

[28:49] They're not like super webbed.

[28:50] I don't know how much they'd actually help you in the water.

[28:52] But they're a little webby.

[28:53] Ellie's like, I've seen better.

[28:55] Damn.

[28:56] Yeah, on frogs.

[28:57] On frogs.

[28:58] Anyway, next morning –

[28:59] It's Mutant Jr.

S4

[29:00] And these feet because they – the prosthetics, they tried to limit the number of times that he would have to go through that prosthetic because working on the water, working on the sun, out in the sun, these things looked beautiful once they were applied apparently.

[29:17] And the minute Costner stood up, they started to crack and break apart.

[29:22] So pretty much every shot that you see it in has digital augmentation to make it look less janky.

[29:31] Which is –

[29:31] Yeah.

[29:32] Which is –

S4

[29:32] It makes sense.

[29:32] And then a lot of the wide shots, they just gave up and said, don't forget about it.

[29:36] We're not even going to do the appliance.

[29:38] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[29:39] That's interesting because it certainly didn't – it didn't look digitally to me.

[29:44] And so much of this movie is –

[29:45] It's good work.

[29:46] Yeah.

[29:47] And so much of the movie feels real is the other thing.

[29:49] Like watching this, it was like, oh, yeah, it really feels like they built these sets.

[29:52] Like it really felt like they were in these places.

[29:54] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[29:54] You were texting me the whole time.

[29:56] You're like, this is so much better than all this CGI garbage we get these days.

Elliott Kalan

[30:00] I was like, this is why practical effects are the best.

[30:03] This is why in Iron Man when he's walking around in a real practical costume, that's when he's the best.

[30:09] CGI.

[30:11] Making Todd mad.

S4

[30:12] Yeah.

[30:13] No, not at all.

[30:14] No, I mean the story behind the production of like some of the sets is quite amazing.

[30:21] It's a technological and engineering achievement.

[30:24] They had to build – I mean they basically build giant boats and that's what the set was.

[30:30] And they tried their best to put it out on the open water so they would have not a 360 view.

[30:35] They were never like in truly open water but like a 270-degree angle field of view so they could see the atoll and then see the horizon and pan and have a lot of freedom to shoot.

[30:46] But what that requires is then they basically made boats and then assembled them out on the water.

[30:55] And these were all like had to be actual maritime-like compliant pieces of equipment.

[31:02] Like whenever they would – I mean everything on the set had to be super light because the buoyancy would get all messed up.

[31:08] And they had all these readings so that every time more people or equipment went on it, they had to chain it on the fly.

[31:15] They adjusted the buoyancy of it so that it wouldn't sink.

[31:18] I mean it's crazy.

[31:19] Can't imagine why this movie costs so much.

Dan McCoy

[31:21] And we should say in general like for maybe those who don't like read as much about this or aren't in the business like shooting on water is notoriously difficult.

[31:33] Like Jaws, like Steven Spielberg, you know, like advised against the water world because of Jaws.

[31:41] You know, like there are all these problems with Titanic and stuff.

Elliott Kalan

[31:46] Well, you read about the experiences they had during Jaws, which were very difficult.

[31:50] And they're using real boats that look like modern boats at the time.

[31:54] Like water world is making like made-up sea cities, you know, and things like that.

[31:59] It's really astounding.

[32:00] Like the engineering that went into it must have been phenomenal.

[32:03] But uh-oh, is the mariner going to get to enjoy that?

[32:06] Because the next morning the townspeople have sentenced him to immediate execution by being lowered into a pool of algae or something that's going to recycle him into his component parts.

[32:14] Seems like a mistake if he's a muto.

[32:17] Yeah, but they're stopped by an attack from the smokers led by their king, Deacon, played by Dennis Hopper.

[32:22] And there's a big battle.

[32:23] There's lots of cool stunts in this.

[32:25] This is a very Aqua Mad Max where instead of cars, it's jet skis and boats.

Stuart Wellington

[32:30] This is basically the water world stunt show.

[32:33] You can see Universal Studios.

[32:35] Like a lot of the, even some of the story beats are the same.

[32:38] Like they mash it up a little bit.

[32:40] But like that stunt show is really a highlight of Universal Studios.

[32:45] And yeah, it's great.

Dan McCoy

[32:47] Now, do they have the part where a plane is leading water skiers?

[32:53] Because I was like, this is the most amazing shit.

[32:56] Yeah, I think they do.

Elliott Kalan

[32:57] I think they do, yeah.

[32:58] There's definitely a plane in the stunt show, right?

Dan McCoy

[33:00] I love the idea that this band of pirates have so much style that they're like, we're going to come in.

[33:07] What we're going to do is we're going to ramp some water skiers that are going to be led by a prop plane over the wall.

Stuart Wellington

[33:15] Yeah, they're going to build boats that have ramps that go into the water.

[33:19] So they're ski-doos or whatever.

[33:22] And skiers can fly over the walls.

S4

[33:24] I love how we're supposed to see like jet skis as intimidating pieces of equipment.

[33:30] And we're already, okay, we're just trying to swallow that down.

[33:33] And then all of a sudden you see this close-up of four guys on water skis.

[33:37] You don't even know what they're being pulled by.

[33:39] It's like, these guys are water skis, all right?

[33:43] Okay, they're coming to kill.

[33:45] And then the camera pulls out and it's a plane pulling them, which it's like, this is the goofy nature of this movie.

[33:54] It's like a plane pulling guys on water skis.

[33:56] And one technical note, I want to say that pretty much any time you see a cable or a wire in this movie, what they did was they tried to – they had cables and wires on the set doing all this stuff.

[34:12] But they can never achieve the attention and safety concerns that would be required.

[34:17] So pretty much every wire you see is a digital wire and every wire that was there has been digitally erased.

[34:24] Because the plane – they tried to have a plane drag those water skiers and it wouldn't work because of the power that was required.

[34:34] The plane couldn't handle it.

[34:35] So it's a helicopter that's actually dragging them.

[34:38] The plane is there, but the cables attached to the helicopter have all been painted out.

[34:44] And new wires have been added between the water skiers and the plane.

[34:49] And that continues throughout the rest of the movie.

[34:52] And you don't even think about it.

[34:53] It's really – it's great work.

Elliott Kalan

[34:55] That's a lot of work to put in for the idea of a plane pulling water skiing pirates.

[35:03] Now I'm mad.

[35:04] Now I agree with Entertainment Weekly and Premiere.

[35:06] Too much.

[35:07] So Gregor, he has an airship that he's made.

[35:10] He accidentally escapes and it's like a hot air balloon that never runs out of hot air.

[35:14] He's just floating in it for the rest of his life it seems.

[35:17] Yeah, I wonder about that one.

[35:18] Just for months afterwards.

[35:19] He shows up later.

[35:20] He shows up forever and he's always got it.

[35:21] He accidentally escapes.

[35:22] It's a real Wizard of Oz situation.

[35:24] I don't know how it works.

[35:26] I can't come back before Helen and Enola can join him.

[35:28] Enola's the little girl again.

[35:29] Helen frees the mariner from his cage.

[35:32] He's desperately trying to unlock it as if he's worried about drowning even though he has gills.

[35:36] I guess it's the algae that's going to eat him away.

[35:37] What's it like?

[35:38] It's like slop.

[35:39] It's like mud, yeah.

S4

[35:40] I mean they show a dead body being lowered into it earlier in the movie.

[35:44] And it's like it must be really gross and maybe it will clog up his gills.

Elliott Kalan

[35:48] Yeah, that's true.

[35:48] It might clog it.

[35:49] That's a good point.

[35:49] She says, I'll free you if you help us escape.

[35:52] Lots of stunts.

[35:52] Lots of danger.

[35:53] They manage to trick the bad guys into blowing up the deacon's boat and they leave.

[35:57] And the deacon has survived, but he lost an eye in the battle.

[36:01] And there's a scene here.

[36:02] I don't know if it's in theatrical one where he's walking around the atoll with his accountant,

[36:06] who's a guy in a top hat and a leather vest and glasses and a big book.

[36:09] And he's like, what stuff have we got?

[36:11] And he's like, well, there's some of this, but there's no weapons.

[36:13] There's none of this.

[36:14] There's no go juice, which is what they call oil.

[36:17] And the deacon is like, there used to be more stuff.

[36:20] Like there used to be more atolls with more stuff on them.

[36:22] Like we don't get any good stuff anymore.

[36:24] And we learned they're looking for the girl with a map on her back.

[36:27] And deacon gives a sermon about how God didn't mean for man and fish to become one.

[36:32] And this fish man is a blasphemy.

[36:34] And they've got to destroy him.

Dan McCoy

[36:35] Well, no, that would have set up the idea of deacon.

[36:41] Like I didn't.

[36:43] In the theatrical one, you don't know why he's called deacon.

[36:45] Exactly.

[36:46] Well, towards the end, he gives like a sermon, but it's the first time anything like that has happened.

[36:51] So like this idea of him as this sort of quasi-religious leader, it completely went over my head until I get like at the end.

[37:00] I'm like, I guess he's like, that's what he is.

[37:02] But it's not there.

Elliott Kalan

[37:05] So meanwhile, the mariner, he's with the ladies on his boat.

[37:08] And he's pretty grumpy.

[37:09] And he's like, my boat's in bad shape.

[37:11] It's broken.

[37:12] It's not good.

[37:12] I don't have enough hydro for all three of you.

[37:14] We should just throw Enola overboard.

[37:16] And this is when, in a moment that was heavily hyped in the trailers, Gene Triplehorn takes her clothes off and offers to have sex with them in exchange for their lives.

[37:25] But he refuses.

[37:26] And then she threatens him with a harpoon gun.

[37:29] And he drops a sail on her and then hits her over the head with an oar to knock her out.

[37:32] Just nails her.

[37:33] It's very rough.

[37:34] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[37:36] He is, he's, he's almost a little too rough.

Elliott Kalan

[37:40] Yes.

[37:41] Well, and I think that's what, I think, I think, and the movie is like, it's true.

[37:46] He is, he is a, he's, they do a really good job of making him into a surly, not likable guy in these first sections of the movie.

[37:54] Like, he doesn't like anybody.

[37:56] He's mean.

[37:57] You know that's going to change because it's a movie.

[37:59] But the, but the, it's never quite as bad as it could be because Kevin Costner's performance is a little like not all the way there.

[38:08] I feel like it's, especially for a guy who made multiple post-apocalyptic movies.

[38:12] He never seems to be quite post-apocalyptic enough.

Dan McCoy

[38:15] No, that's the thing.

[38:16] He just seems like kind of like a comfortable California guy.

[38:19] Like, you know, he works best.

Stuart Wellington

[38:23] He's got a little like a little like a ponytail thing.

Dan McCoy

[38:28] He works best not in period things, I think.

[38:33] He was Robin Hood, Dan.

[38:35] He was the most widely decried part of Robin Hood, even though that was a big success.

[38:44] Like, I like Costner, but I do think he has a very specific range that he operates best in.

[38:51] And here, yeah, he doesn't ever seem like he's got maybe the edge that the movie would want him to.

S4

[38:58] I also think he thinks he's, yeah.

[39:01] I also think for me, the biggest problem with the movie is these wide tonal shifts where every, everything else in the movie is pretty bright and wide eyed and characters with very broad and, and literally, you know, like with the villain at the end of the movie saying, you know, they, I don't know where we're going.

[39:21] This is all horse shit.

[39:22] I don't, I don't know.

[39:23] As opposed to say like a Fury Road where, you know, Immortan Joe is like full of shit.

[39:28] But he never comes right out and says, I don't know anything about anything, you know.

[39:32] But Kevin Costner's Mariner, he's in a different movie.

[39:36] It's ultra serious, ultra cruel.

[39:39] And there's more cruelty to come.

[39:41] Yeah.

[39:42] It doesn't fit.

[39:42] Like, even the music is like extremely heroic.

[39:46] Yes.

Elliott Kalan

[39:46] You know, very.

[39:48] By the end of the, by the end of the movie, it is almost cartoonishly heroic.

[39:52] Yeah.

[39:52] And it's like, what movie were we watching until now?

Dan McCoy

[39:54] Well, and that was also a thing, you know, from behind the scenes, apparently, like there was a much darker score that was thrown out and then a new one was written very quickly.

[40:04] So.

Stuart Wellington

[40:05] By Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross, right?

[40:07] You have to assume.

[40:08] You have to assume, yeah.

[40:10] It's by Giorgio Moroder.

Elliott Kalan

[40:12] Oh, I would have loved that.

[40:13] That would be amazing.

[40:14] Get some synths on this.

[40:16] Fantastic.

[40:17] So Deacon, he's back at the tanker ship that he calls home.

[40:20] He's in a big tanker ship.

[40:21] He's trying on a pretty bad looking fake eye.

[40:23] I remember this so well from seeing it at the theaters and how funny it is.

[40:25] This kind of poorly, this really unconvincing fake eye that he throws away.

[40:29] And he gets in an old car and drives it through the tanker.

[40:32] That's how huge it is.

[40:34] He's got to go talk to an old man played by.

S4

[40:36] But wait, hold on.

[40:36] When he gets in the car, what music do they play?

[40:40] Some jazzy version of Peter Gunn theme?

[40:43] Yes, yes.

[40:43] They're playing the Peter Gunn theme.

[40:44] What is this movie?

Elliott Kalan

[40:45] I mean, to say a jazzy version of the Peter Gunn theme is redundant.

[40:48] It's a very jazzy theme.

[40:49] Yeah.

[40:49] It is a song that makes no sense in that moment.

[40:52] I don't know if it's supposed to be diegetic, that this is the music he plays when he's driving

[40:56] around.

[40:56] Like, it's a weird choice.

[40:58] It's very weird.

Stuart Wellington

[40:59] It's very, very the kind of music King Koopa would listen to while being driven around.

[41:03] Sure, yeah.

[41:04] I mean, I will say Dennis Hopper, you know, he gives his best, like, B-grade Jack Nicholson

[41:10] is the Joker performance here, I think.

Elliott Kalan

[41:12] Oh, yeah.

[41:12] I mean, Dennis Hopper's having fun with it, it seems, or at least pretending to have fun

[41:15] with it.

[41:16] Like, I feel like he's doing fine in it.

[41:17] Yeah.

S4

[41:18] You know, he had great success with Speed as the gun, and he's just kind of continuing.

[41:23] He's like, he's put his whole heart into this.

[41:27] One thing about the tanker, they don't reveal that it's a tanker.

[41:30] It's just some place.

[41:31] It's just a big place.

[41:32] That's true.

[41:32] I think they were like, oh, man, the audiences are going to go fucking apeshit when they see

[41:38] that it's the Exxon Valdez.

[41:40] And it's like, even back then, I remember like, oh, okay, it's the Exxon Valdez.

Stuart Wellington

[41:45] They just keep calling it the Deez over and over.

[41:49] I'm like, is this like a Deez Nuts bit?

Elliott Kalan

[41:51] Yeah, it was because it's named after their patron saying Eddie Deezon, I guess.

Dan McCoy

[41:55] That was such a specific event at a specific time, too, that I feel like it had been referenced

[42:01] so much that probably at the time, you're like, oh, great, and I got the Exxon Valdez

[42:05] reference, and now people watching it probably are like, what?

Elliott Kalan

[42:10] Well, and in the extended cut, there's a scene where earlier in the movie, Dennis Hopper walks

[42:14] past a portrait of the captain of the Exxon Valdez, and it says captain and his name under

[42:18] it, and he goes, and he's like, St. Joe or whatever, watch over us.

[42:22] We do have, I saw that.

[42:23] A little bit.

[42:24] But it's one of those things where it's like, it's very weird to have such a topical

[42:28] reference in a movie set in a post-apocalyptic future, but also about a ship that famously

[42:33] sunk, like that leaked, or like didn't sink all the way, I guess.

[42:37] But like, it's not like this was, it's like if they were real, they were in the Titanic,

[42:41] and it's like, you mean a ship that is not seaworthy?

[42:43] Right.

[42:44] Like, they had to put a lot of work into making it.

[42:46] Anyway, and also oil tankers, they deteriorate real fast.

[42:50] Like, there's no way one would last this long.

[42:51] But what I want to say is he's trying to find out how much oil they have, and it turns out

[42:54] they only have two months left.

[42:55] They learn that.

[42:56] It's what they call Go Juice.

[42:57] They learn that from talking to an old man who, his whole job is he sits in a rowboat

[43:01] in the tank, on top of the oil, and tells them, and I was like, is that Carl Oldie Olsen

[43:07] from Late Night with Conan O'Brien?

[43:08] Yes, it was.

[43:09] William Preston, a.k.a.

[43:10] Carl Oldie Olsen.

[43:11] Oh, that's awesome.

[43:12] Plays the man in the tank.

Stuart Wellington

[43:14] I love that shit.

[43:15] Like, I love that there's a weird dude in the tank.

Dan McCoy

[43:17] Yeah, that's where it gets the most Mad Max-y.

[43:20] In a good way, yeah.

S4

[43:20] And he has one of the best lines in the movie later in the movie, I think.

Elliott Kalan

[43:26] But that's a good detail in there, where it's a good weird thing where it's like,

[43:29] and he just is in the dark all the time, because he can't light

[43:31] anything because the oil will go up.

[43:33] But I don't know how he knows there's two months left, I guess,

[43:35] by how close he is to the roof of the tank.

[43:37] But anyway, so then we see, and let me know if this stuff is in the shorter version.

[43:43] We're back on the catamaran.

[43:44] Helen is going without water, so Enola can have some.

[43:47] And Enola tries to thank them.

[43:48] She goes up to the martyrs.

[43:49] She goes, thank you for not killing us.

[43:51] And he doesn't want to talk to her.

[43:52] And she gives him a kiss on the cheek, and he shoves her away

[43:54] and runs to the other side of the boat.

[43:56] And it was one of these moments where it was like, oh, this guy is not just

[44:01] a mean guy.

[44:02] He's like, he does not, he cannot handle emotion.

[44:04] Like, he does not understand human closeness.

[44:06] Not in the movie.

[44:08] And so, and she finds some crayons on the boat,

[44:10] and he gets really mad that she's drawing all over his boat.

[44:12] So he throws her overboard and then helps Helen to save her.

Dan McCoy

[44:16] Yeah, that's in it.

[44:18] That's in there.

[44:18] Throwing overboard.

[44:19] That's the kind of like part where I'm like, wow, movie, going for it.

[44:24] The hero just threw a little girl into the open sea.

[44:28] Yeah.

[44:28] He does turn around and pick them up, but he said, push a small child into the ocean.

Elliott Kalan

[44:34] And I think that scene, it has more depth to it, having seen him, having seen that girl

[44:39] try to be close to him and him not be able to handle it.

[44:42] As opposed to just, I'm mad.

[44:44] As opposed to just being like, when I was single, I could do whatever I wanted, but now I've got

[44:47] a lady and a kid.

[44:48] Get her out of here.

S4

[44:49] That's exactly how it reads in the theatrical.

Elliott Kalan

[44:51] So they get attacked by the Smokers Antique Fighter Plane.

[44:55] And in the fight, Helen manages to damage the boat with some bad harpooning.

[44:59] And the mariner angrily chops off her hair in retaliation with a big knife.

Stuart Wellington

[45:03] And it's a pretty good stunt where he climbs to the very top.

[45:06] And then when the tension releases, it flings him into the ocean.

[45:09] I thought that was kind of cool.

[45:10] That's awesome.

[45:11] It's a great shot.

[45:12] There's great stunts in this.

Elliott Kalan

[45:12] The stunts in this are great.

[45:15] Later, he eats a fresh...

S4

[45:17] I'll give you a production note about the plane piloted by none other than Jack Black.

[45:24] Was that Jack Black?

[45:25] Yeah, yeah.

[45:26] It's a pretty cool gag how they're wrapping the cable around the mariner's boat.

[45:32] The mast, yeah.

[45:33] And so, but that would be extremely dangerous to do out in the open water.

[45:38] They couldn't get that tied up so that for framing and for timing, to give the camera

[45:43] operators something to frame, they did a version of that with a helicopter.

[45:48] And they framed the helicopter in frame, spinning around and doing the thing.

[45:53] And the helicopter was painted out and a plane was added in its place.

[45:57] And it looks good.

Dan McCoy

[45:58] It doesn't look bad.

[45:58] All these helicopters doing plane jobs, you know?

Elliott Kalan

[46:02] Yeah.

[46:03] There's some background work later in the movie that looks not very good.

[46:07] But all this stuff looks really good.

[46:11] So they were, oh yes, they get attacked.

[46:13] There's a scene that I have to assume is not in the theatrical cut where the mariner eats

[46:17] a cherry tomato off of this little tomato plane he has.

[46:19] And he cuts it up into little pieces and he's eating the pieces one by one as Helen and Enola

[46:23] look on and he does not share with them.

[46:25] He like makes such a real show of not sharing this tomato with them.

[46:29] Does he eat it all gross like that Lord of the Rings guy?

[46:32] No, not as gross as that.

[46:33] You mean normal?

[46:35] It's how you eat cherry tomatoes, dude.

[46:37] Yeah, with maximum squish.

[46:38] When your son's about to die, yeah.

[46:41] They stop and meet a manic drifter played by Kim Coates who is a real Terry Gilliam-esque.

[46:47] Kim Coates is great in this.

[46:48] But it's like he's really doing his, again, putting his all into it.

[46:52] But it's a real kind of George Miller, Terry Gilliam type character.

[46:54] Someone who's constantly jabbering to themselves.

[46:56] And he has real paper and he wants to trade it for Helen and Enola.

[47:01] But Kevin Costner only agrees to trade Helen to him for 30 minutes.

[47:04] Then he thinks, has his second thoughts about it and says, deals off.

[47:09] They have a duel.

[47:10] For a moment, you think that the drifter has won, which would be a strange way for the movie to turn when there's a lot of it left.

[47:15] But no, he has killed this drifter.

Stuart Wellington

[47:18] I feel like Kim Coates brings like a darkness to that performance.

[47:22] So it's not just like a silly Terry Gilliam character.

[47:26] There's like a grounded like, oh, no, this guy will kill us.

Elliott Kalan

[47:30] Yeah, this is a dangerous, unstable person.

[47:33] I agree.

[47:34] So later on, Helen is berating the mariner.

[47:36] She's like, we need food.

[47:37] Where's the food?

[47:39] And so he jumps into the water and uses himself as bait to catch an enormous fish monster, which they then cook.

[47:44] And that's a bit I also remember very well from the movie, from seeing the theater.

[47:47] It was like him jumping in and this huge thing swallowing him and then him like blowing his way out.

[47:50] And that was all practical.

Dan McCoy

[47:51] They got a real fish to jump on.

Elliott Kalan

[47:53] They got a real giant prehistoric fish monster, real mutant fish monster.

[47:56] They had to breed it.

[47:56] That's the hard thing.

Dan McCoy

[47:58] Which fish naturally eats Kevin Costner?

[48:01] Yeah.

[48:01] And they got that one.

[48:02] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[48:02] And Kevin Costner's doctor was like, I told you to stay away from this fish.

[48:06] Yeah.

[48:08] And so there's a scene here now where Helen, she hears music and she goes over and the mariner is listening to some kind of very saxophone heavy jazz on some sort of wind powered CD player.

[48:18] This is not the theatrical cut, right?

[48:20] No.

[48:20] He has like a little CD player that's powered by fans and he's listening to jazz music.

[48:25] And it's crazy.

[48:26] I think a lot of musicians are powered by their fans.

[48:31] Good point, sir.

[48:32] Good point.

[48:32] It's the power of the audience that keeps them going.

[48:34] Yeah.

[48:34] Certainly Metallica is, you know.

[48:37] And a lot of jazz is breezy.

[48:39] Yeah.

[48:40] But the idea that he has, as we later learned, he's getting these relics from the bottom of the ocean.

[48:44] He went down the bottom of the ocean and found a functioning CD player that he gets.

[48:48] He just dried out.

[48:49] Wind retrofitted CD player.

[48:51] That didn't get any dirt in it, I guess.

S4

[48:53] He put it in a Ziploc bag with some uncooked rice.

Elliott Kalan

[48:55] It was fun.

[48:56] It's possible.

[48:56] There's a scene.

[48:57] Have you guys ever read the book Lucifer's Hammer?

[49:00] No.

[49:00] It's about an asteroid is about to hit the earth and this guy is like, this area is going to get floated.

[49:05] What books that I own do I need to save?

[49:06] And he's double Ziploc bagging science texts and great works of literature so that hopefully they'll survive getting waterlogged.

[49:13] So maybe that happened.

[49:13] Somebody did that with their Discman when they saw the floodwaters rising.

Dan McCoy

[49:16] I have to preserve the Empire Records soundtrack for future generations.

Stuart Wellington

[49:23] I have to preserve William Shatner's Tech World or Tech Wars.

[49:27] Book on tape?

[49:28] Oh, no.

Dan McCoy

[49:29] But it's only volume two.

Elliott Kalan

[49:30] I'll never know how it got to be a tech war.

[49:33] So she tells how Enola was a foundling whose basket drifted into the atoll.

[49:38] And she said – and she got permission to raise Enola, but she was not allowed to have her own children because resources are so limited.

[49:45] They said, you can never have children, but you can raise this one.

[49:47] And the mariners – and she's like, do you have any friends?

[49:50] The mariners are like, yeah, I got this boat.

[49:51] That's my friend.

[49:52] And Helen goes, that's pitiful.

[49:54] I pity you.

[49:55] Yeah, I don't remember any of this.

[49:57] And he gives Helen some chalk for Enola and he goes, I'm not giving it to her.

[49:59] This is just to borrow.

[50:00] Anyway, so that's all.

[50:01] It's a lot of the scenes that were about building up their characters, as often happens in these movies, gets cut out.

Stuart Wellington

[50:05] I remember the borrowing part.

[50:07] Okay.

[50:08] Yeah, yeah.

[50:08] In the movie The Borrowers.

[50:09] There's a bit when he's trying to cut the plane loose when it's wrapping the cable around the mast,

[50:16] where he gets way up top at the top of the mast and he finds a bunch of little cartoons that Enola's drawn.

[50:22] I think that's a good touch.

[50:23] Like, it's a good bit.

[50:23] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[50:24] And I understand.

[50:25] I don't like it when my kids draw on the walls of my house and they're my kids.

[50:28] The idea that, like, someone else would come in.

[50:31] So we're recording this after we did our shows at Vidiot's in Los Angeles, which will someday be public viewable.

[50:37] We don't know when.

[50:38] And I forgot that in Three Men and a Baby, one of the movies we watched, that Steve Guttenberg,

[50:42] his whole deal is he's painting this huge mural of him and the other stars of the movie on the inside of their apartment building.

[50:48] And it's like this little girl is just doing what Steve Guttenberg's doing, just drawing pictures of herself all over the walls of this house or this boat.

[50:54] The next day, so Enola hasn't mentioned she can't swim.

[50:57] And the next day, the mariner takes her for a swimming lesson and she loves it.

[51:00] But unfortunately, the smokers ambush them using a combination of an island where they've strung up dead men like puppets.

[51:07] So they can seem to be waving and saying, come on over.

[51:09] Like those, the cats inside of.

[51:11] And singing, come on over, come on over, baby.

[51:14] The cats in Chinese restaurants that are just waving you in to come in and enjoy it.

[51:19] And some underwater jet skiers.

[51:21] And the image of them wading underwater is very silly to me.

[51:24] They're underwater on their jet skis.

S4

[51:25] Well, and not just the image, but it's like he uses his periscope, underwater scope, and he's looking and he's panning around.

[51:33] He uses open water and then he pans past the jet skis and he comes back.

[51:38] He does a little double take.

[51:39] It's a real Looney Tunes move.

[51:40] Yeah.

[51:41] I have one production note.

[51:43] When he was teaching Enola how to swim, you know, a lot of that is Costner.

[51:48] Lots of amazing underwater photography in this movie.

[51:51] But for him to be able to do all those moves, he couldn't do those without real flippers.

[51:56] So he has real flippers on and those were all digitally painted out and then they had to put CG versions of his feet on his feet.

[52:06] So you don't notice that.

Elliott Kalan

[52:08] So if you do a Google search for Kevin Costner feet CGI, you are going to find something for anyone who's into that.

[52:14] Just stop at feet.

[52:15] It's good at feet.

[52:16] Lots of really good stuff there.

S4

[52:18] But no, the reason I bring it up is that that would be, you know, in today's – with today's technology and the way we do things, that is trivial.

[52:28] That would not even be mentioned in any articles or anything.

[52:30] We would do it for like 40, 50 shots, an augmentation of somebody's body part or they had to get rid of a prop or something like that.

[52:38] It was a really big deal back then.

[52:38] And to remove Henry Cavill's mustache.

[52:40] Yeah.

[52:40] Exactly.

[52:41] But this was a huge deal even for a handful of shots and nobody, nobody looks at that scene and thinks about it at all, which is cool.

[52:48] Todd, you weren't on Henry Cavill mustache removal duty, right?

[52:52] No, no, I was not.

[52:53] What a crazy story, huh?

[52:55] It's crazy.

Elliott Kalan

[52:56] And then you watch Mission Impossible and you're like, yeah, that mustache.

[52:58] I get it.

[52:59] Yeah.

[53:00] Totally.

[53:00] So, like all those people who had to do that work, at least they got paid to do it and it's like they could have added 40 million more dollars to Justice League's budget and it would have been worth it for him to wear that mustache in Mission Impossible.

[53:12] That's how much higher quality I think Mission Impossible is than the Justice League movie.

Stuart Wellington

[53:16] But anyway.

[53:16] Should have just left the mustache in.

[53:18] They should have just had Superman with the mustache.

[53:19] We've talked about it, but Superman should have woken up with a fucking mustache.

[53:22] Yeah.

[53:22] He does.

Dan McCoy

[53:23] And then he shaves it by shooting his lasers off on her, you know, like he does in the comics.

[53:27] He shakes his hand at the clouds and says, Mr. Mr. Mitchell Piddalick, you did it again, you imp.

[53:35] You know, and that's the excuse.

Elliott Kalan

[53:38] You're thinking of Mr. Mustache Piddalick, the mustache-based imp who would bedevil Superman.

Dan McCoy

[53:44] You're not saying, you don't think that he would, you know, if Superman was asleep, he'd come in and slap a mustache on him just for sure.

[53:49] I do know.

Elliott Kalan

[53:50] Yeah, draw a penis on his head.

[53:52] Sure, yeah.

[53:52] He seems kind of low rent for Mr. Mitchell Piddalick.

[53:54] He has a fifth-dimensional imp with superpowers, but yeah, okay.

[53:58] Sometimes the simplest is the best, you know.

[54:00] Simple pleasures, you know.

[54:01] Exactly.

Dan McCoy

[54:02] Putting a mustache on a man who didn't have one.

Elliott Kalan

[54:04] Putting a mustache on a sleeping man or eating a cherry tomato in front of two people who don't get to have any.

Dan McCoy

[54:10] Mr. Mitchell Piddalick can put a mustache on Superman.

Elliott Kalan

[54:12] Look, if that kid can grow leaves on his ankles, then Mr. Mitchell Piddalick can put a mustache on Superman, yeah.

[54:16] Anyway, the smokers attack.

[54:19] The mariners hurt in the escape.

[54:23] And Helen tells, and then she goes, Enola's map is for dry land.

[54:28] And he goes, dry land's a myth.

[54:29] There's no such thing.

[54:30] I've gone faster, farther out than anybody else, and I've never seen it.

[54:33] And she's like, so where'd you get your dirt and all your cool stuff?

[54:36] And he puts her in kind of like-

[54:37] Where'd you get your dirt?

[54:38] Where'd you get your dirt, dude?

[54:39] And he puts Helen in kind of a glass and canvas diving bell and takes her down underwater.

[54:44] And this is the big reveal where we see the ruins of these sunken cities.

[54:48] There's skyscrapers everywhere.

[54:50] And it's a real whole new world moment.

[54:55] It's Denver.

[54:56] Is it Denver?

[54:57] I was trying to identify the city and I couldn't.

S4

[55:00] Denver landmarks are like a Denver National Bank or whatever in there.

[55:03] And then it ends with the-

[55:04] All the iconic global landmarks.

Elliott Kalan

Dan McCoy

[55:07] Your version didn't have them eating an omelet and being like, oh, what is this unique combination of flavors?

[55:12] That they just found under there?

[55:14] Yeah.

[55:14] In the bubble.

Elliott Kalan

[55:15] And we see Hallie's skeleton wave to them as they go by, Denver native.

Dan McCoy

[55:20] It's like, ironically, we saw her as a ghost.

[55:22] Kind of?

[55:22] I don't know.

[55:23] Yeah.

[55:24] But you're saying, Todd, in the last shot, what happens?

S4

[55:26] No, it ties in the ski lift that you see.

[55:30] Yeah.

[55:30] It ties in with the ski boots from earlier.

[55:32] So they're in that general vicinity.

[55:34] I see.

Stuart Wellington

[55:35] I think that a lot of these shots, the city ruins are kind of underlit.

[55:40] So I'm like, oh, wow.

[55:41] Somebody really lit up this joint before those flares are really doing their work.

S4

[55:45] Yeah.

[55:46] Super visible.

[55:48] You got to be able to see this stuff.

[55:50] I mean, and honestly, it's an art direction nightmare.

[55:53] It's supposed to be at the bottom of the ocean, but you got to be able to see this stuff.

[55:56] Yeah.

[55:57] And how do you do that?

[55:58] Well, you have to artfully, you know, figure out a way to indicate depth for these.

[56:02] And this was all miniatures.

[56:05] They were huge.

[56:07] Well, which was it, Viziri?

Elliott Kalan

[56:09] Were they miniatures or were they huge?

[56:11] You're still keeping your story straight.

[56:13] They were jumbo shrimp.

Dan McCoy

[56:15] All right?

[56:16] They were military.

[56:17] Elliot has his ace attorney arm out.

Stuart Wellington

[56:20] It's like how in the making of the Lord of the Rings, they referred to some of these cities as bigatures.

[56:25] Bigatures.

[56:25] Exactly.

[56:26] Miniatures.

S4

[56:27] I mean, at 124th scale, the skyscraper is still pretty big.

[56:31] Still big.

[56:31] They filled up these giant rooms.

Stuart Wellington

[56:33] The Tower of Orthanc still towers over mere humans.

S4

[56:36] And they shot it not underwater.

[56:39] They shot those miniatures dry for wet, which is just a way you have to smoke up the stage and maintain consistent smoke and film your passes that way.

[56:49] And it gives the impression of underwater.

[56:52] But the actors who were, you know, Costner and holding the flare and everything, they were shot underwater blue screen, which is very difficult and painstaking.

Stuart Wellington

[57:03] They didn't shrink the actors.

[57:08] To put them on the bigotries.

Dan McCoy

[57:09] Yeah, would that cost more or less?

Stuart Wellington

[57:11] I think that would have added a little to the budget.

Elliott Kalan

[57:14] Yeah.

[57:14] And the insurance cost.

Stuart Wellington

[57:15] Costner's contract says no shrinking.

Elliott Kalan

[57:17] Yeah, if the enlarging doesn't work, then the insurance costs are considerable.

[57:21] Yeah.

[57:21] It's like the story about Born on the Fourth of July where Oliver Stone was like, well, Tom Cruise, I want to inject you with a serum that will paralyze your legs for two days.

[57:29] And Tom Cruise was like, let's do it.

[57:31] And the producers were like, we cannot pay the insurance bills if you do that.

[57:34] Like, we will not paralyze the story.

[57:36] That's what I heard.

[57:37] Yeah.

[57:37] That's amazing.

[57:38] That's what I read.

[57:38] Yeah.

[57:40] And Tom Cruise at that time was like, go for it.

[57:42] This is my chance to prove I'm a real actor.

[57:43] I'll have my legs paralyzed.

[57:45] It'll prove I'm a real actor if instead of acting like my legs don't work, you will inject me with something that will make it actually not happen.

[57:52] You know, it's in that post-Raging Bull era.

[57:53] Everyone was all about body mod.

[57:55] Anyway, so they see the Sunken City when they surface.

[57:58] Surprise, surprise, the smokers are on the boat.

[58:00] Why did they think that was a good time to go on a date in the city?

[58:04] They didn't get a sitter.

[58:05] And Enola gets kidnapped.

[58:07] The adults escape by jumping into the water and kissing so that the mariner can gill breathe for both of them, which is not really how breathing works.

[58:13] I'm trying to move before, guys.

[58:15] I'm trying.

[58:16] It doesn't work.

[58:17] No.

[58:19] But he goes, I'll breathe for both of them, both of us.

S4

[58:21] It reminded me of that Roger Moore, I think it was A View to a Kill, where he's in a car that gets the bad guys sunk at underwater.

[58:29] And in order to act like he's dead, he opens up the tire pressure of the tires and he grabs the air out of the tires.

[58:37] I don't think that would work either.

Elliott Kalan

[58:39] No, probably not.

[58:40] Probably not.

[58:41] And the smokers burn the boat and they take Enola.

[58:44] Now we're back on the smoker's big city.

[58:46] You know, wink, wink.

[58:47] We don't know it's a tanker yet.

[58:48] And the deacon is trying to get Enola to tell him where dry land is.

[58:51] And she is fully little girl in an action movie now.

[58:54] She's like, the mariner is going to come get me.

[58:56] He's going to kill all of you.

[58:57] You're all going to die now.

[58:58] And later on, she has a line that I love where she goes, they go, what's his, you don't even know his name.

[59:02] And she goes, he doesn't have a name, so death can't find him.

[59:04] Which I think is a great line.

[59:06] Doesn't make sense that death has to look up in the phone.

[59:08] I was fucking hooting and hollering, you guys.

[59:09] I was loving that shit.

[59:10] It's a great line that, again, doesn't make sense.

[59:12] I was fucking firing my six guns in the air when she said that shit.

Stuart Wellington

[59:16] That's up there with Alec Baldwin.

Elliott Kalan

[59:18] Yeah, I'm here to pick somebody up for the afterlife.

[59:21] Oh, yeah, what name?

[59:22] Oh, they didn't give me a name.

[59:24] Well, then I guess your paperwork's not older, sir.

[59:26] You've got to know the guy I'm talking about.

Dan McCoy

[59:26] He's got gills.

[59:27] He's got gills and web feet.

[59:28] He's like the one gill guy.

[59:29] Come on.

Elliott Kalan

[59:30] Yeah, come on.

[59:30] He looks like the guy who was going to be in the big chill, but they cut him out.

[59:33] No, sorry.

[59:34] I don't know anyone around here.

[59:35] Sorry.

[59:36] So she's so sure of it.

[59:38] Anyway, back on the burnt wreck of the Mariner's boat.

[59:42] Is this in the theatrical cut that Helen and the Mariner make love sincerely here?

[59:47] Yes.

[59:47] No.

[59:48] She's like, why didn't you choose to go with me before?

[59:51] And he's like, because you didn't want it.

[59:52] And she's like, well, we're going to die, so do it to me now, fish man.

[59:56] And you can see them making out.

[59:58] Also a line cut from Shape of Water.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:01] Is gill stuff okay?

[1:00:02] And he's like, I insist.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:03] Yeah.

[1:00:04] And then there's a moment where there's a, and then after that, there's a, and she's

[1:00:08] despairing.

[1:00:09] She's like, she's like, we're going to die here.

[1:00:10] There's no way.

[1:00:11] And he's like, we can never give up.

[1:00:13] The fish man never give up.

[1:00:14] But then he sees the smoke from the boat and maybe was watching them do it.

[1:00:17] I don't know.

[1:00:18] It's Gregor in his airship.

[1:00:19] He has just been floating around for days in that thing.

[1:00:22] And he takes them to a new mini atoll that's just boats lashed together.

[1:00:26] The survivors from the earlier attack.

[1:00:28] There's some arguing.

[1:00:29] There's some time killing in the, so I know that this is different.

[1:00:32] And in the extended cut, the mariner steals a boat.

[1:00:34] He says, he goes, they go, you can't take that.

[1:00:36] And he's like, well, either give it to me or I'm just going to take it.

[1:00:39] Bill me.

[1:00:39] He goes back to his catamaran and he finds a drawing of palm trees that Enola drew.

[1:00:44] And he compares it to a magazine picture of palm trees that he has in his paper.

[1:00:47] Oh, I saw that one.

[1:00:48] So that part.

[1:00:49] That's in the movie.

[1:00:50] That part is in the movie earlier.

[1:00:51] Right?

[1:00:51] Yeah.

[1:00:52] They switched it around.

[1:00:53] I'll do some research on it.

[1:00:54] But the part where he leaves is not there.

[1:00:56] And when he comes back.

[1:00:57] Oh, so then two smokers on jet skis show up the atoll and they're like, okay, let's take

[1:01:01] everything.

[1:01:01] And the mariner leaps out of the water, kills both of them.

[1:01:05] And he's like, I'm going to go back for Enola.

[1:01:09] And Gregor is like, oh, he does want to find dry land.

[1:01:11] And he's like, this isn't about dry land.

[1:01:13] This doesn't exist.

[1:01:14] He takes one of the jet skis.

[1:01:16] He takes a Molotov cocktail and throws it in the water.

[1:01:19] And that lights up the trail of oil that I guess the other jet ski was trailing.

[1:01:23] And he follows that back to the bad guys.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:26] See, that's kind of cool.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:27] It's a cool moment.

[1:01:28] And that's not.

[1:01:28] And I was reading up that that's not the theatrical cut.

[1:01:31] So in the movie, right, you don't know how he gets a jet ski or how he finds the bad guys.

[1:01:34] He just kind of shows up.

[1:01:35] Yeah.

[1:01:36] Yeah.

[1:01:36] So they cut that, which I'm surprised by.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:38] You can just assume he has access to jet skis.

[1:01:41] I mean, if the Punisher can get one.

[1:01:43] Exactly.

[1:01:43] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:44] Well, but that jet ski rental guy must have learned his lesson.

[1:01:47] He just rented a Punisher from the jet.

[1:01:48] He rented a jet ski to the Punisher.

[1:01:50] Kiss that baby goodbye.

[1:01:52] If he had rented a Punisher to the jet ski.

[1:01:56] The jet ski zooms up and goes, I need a vigilante that a lot of people have mistakenly turned into a hero in their minds.

[1:02:03] They're like, well, we have one.

[1:02:04] It's the Punisher.

[1:02:05] Here it is.

[1:02:06] His name is Frank Castle.

[1:02:08] So anyway, he takes that jet ski back, back at the smoker's place.

[1:02:11] The bad guys are like, it's hard to read the map on this girl's back.

[1:02:14] Let's just cut it off.

[1:02:15] But they're discussing that.

[1:02:17] The Mariner sneaks on board.

[1:02:19] He kills a guy with his jet ski.

[1:02:21] And the other people that are in that room think it's hilarious.

[1:02:24] They're like, ah, that's how tough these guys are.

[1:02:26] The Deacon gives a very long speech to his followers when the Mariner sneaks around on their city ship.

[1:02:33] It takes a long time.

[1:02:34] This is where you could easily have cut it much shorter.

[1:02:37] And I don't know why they didn't.

S4

[1:02:39] That's a cool – I think they wanted to get production value out of that set.

[1:02:42] That's possible.

[1:02:43] That's cool.

[1:02:43] Which is really amazing and cool.

[1:02:45] It's built – like it's full scale.

[1:02:48] I mean actors are walking around it, but it's built a little bit –

[1:02:50] And they didn't shrink them.

[1:02:52] They did not shrink them.

[1:02:53] But it's built – at the end of it, it is shrunk.

[1:02:56] It's a little forced perspective so that it would be less –

[1:02:59] So if an actor was all the way at the back, they would look huge.

[1:03:03] One of those fun house type things.

[1:03:05] But it's a gorgeous set.

[1:03:06] And they considered doing it by the coast to get that light.

[1:03:10] And they realized we're not going to do this.

[1:03:12] We're not going to do it there.

[1:03:14] I think they ended up shooting it like in Pasadena or something.

[1:03:17] Just some open fields or something.

[1:03:19] Oh, yeah. Great schools.

[1:03:20] Little old ladies.

[1:03:21] Yeah.

[1:03:22] You want the smokers to have a future.

[1:03:24] And then that's CG water all around them.

[1:03:27] Oh, interesting.

[1:03:28] Those are really cool shots.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:29] It all looks really good.

[1:03:30] And what I heard – I don't know if this is true.

[1:03:32] What I heard was that they had planned to sink either this or the atoll set

[1:03:35] to turn it into a reef, but that they used toxic paint.

[1:03:38] So it would never be a natural reef.

[1:03:40] And they had to remove all of it.

[1:03:41] And that added to the cost.

[1:03:42] They're like, we don't have to pay for dismantling it.

[1:03:44] We're creating a real coral reef right here.

[1:03:46] We're making the oceans better.

[1:03:47] We use the paint that is not poisonous to fish, right?

[1:03:50] Oops.

Stuart Wellington

[1:03:52] Check the paint and it has a bunch of fish bones on it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:57] Like Heathcliff just went through it.

[1:03:58] I thought it was sponsored by the band Fishbone.

[1:04:01] I didn't realize.

[1:04:02] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:03] And obviously one of the highlights of this giant set is painted in very large letters

[1:04:09] underneath where the deacon gives his speech are the words, no smoking.

[1:04:14] How ironic.

[1:04:15] How ironic.

[1:04:16] How all the cousins are smoking.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:18] They're all smoking all the time.

[1:04:19] And so he gives the speech.

[1:04:22] He goes, okay, everybody, get this thing moving.

[1:04:24] And everybody goes away.

[1:04:25] And that's when the mariner shows up and starts arguing with them.

[1:04:29] And at any moment, the deacon could be like, the whole army of people that were standing

[1:04:33] here a moment ago, can you take care of this guy?

[1:04:35] But instead, it becomes a tête-à-tête.

[1:04:37] And they're all working.

[1:04:39] I guess they are working.

[1:04:40] Yeah.

[1:04:40] That's the way they do it.

[1:04:41] They don't have money for nothing and chicks for free.

[1:04:43] They got to work for a living.

S4

[1:04:44] The smoker's rowing.

[1:04:46] I mean, come on.

[1:04:47] That's funny.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:48] It is.

[1:04:48] That's true.

[1:04:49] That they're rowing this enormous thing.

[1:04:51] And they can't do it because their lungs are bad.

[1:04:54] And cut to the deacon saying, I don't know where we're going.

[1:04:57] We haven't figured it out yet.

[1:04:58] It's kind of good.

[1:05:00] The mariner, he holds a flare over an open pipeline, an open pipe that just goes straight

[1:05:07] down into the oil.

[1:05:08] They should have a cover for that that's harder to remove.

[1:05:11] And he says, I'll drop this in here if you don't give me an Ola.

[1:05:13] And they go, he's bluffing.

[1:05:14] And then he just drops it in.

[1:05:15] And the whole place explodes.

Dan McCoy

[1:05:16] Yeah.

[1:05:17] He's really making a gamble there that what does happen happens where it's like, there's

[1:05:23] a lot of, I guess, blowing out of the sides.

[1:05:26] Yeah.

[1:05:26] Not so much the top.

[1:05:27] But his deck area is still intact enough that he can do his mariner's shit.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:32] Yeah.

[1:05:33] And poor Carl Oldie Olsen.

[1:05:34] He just is vaporized in a ball of flame.

[1:05:37] But he says the line.

[1:05:38] I forgot what the line is.

[1:05:39] Oh, thank God.

[1:05:42] That's right.

[1:05:43] Such a good line.

[1:05:44] Because he's so done with this life.

[1:05:46] He didn't ask for this.

[1:05:47] Yeah.

[1:05:48] That's right.

[1:05:48] I forgot that it was Othaca.

[1:05:49] And that actor is super funny.

[1:05:53] I always loved him when he was on Conan O'Brien.

[1:05:55] I could not really understand what he was saying a lot of the time, but that was the joke.

[1:05:58] Anyway.

[1:05:58] So the whole tanker blows up.

[1:06:00] Explosions.

[1:06:00] Fight, fight, fight.

[1:06:01] And the movie gets kind of goofy from this point on.

[1:06:05] The stunts and action stuff gets sillier.

[1:06:07] There's a lot more of the Deacon saying silly things.

[1:06:10] The Deacon tries to escape in that old plane with Enola.

[1:06:13] Very speed too.

[1:06:14] The other movie we just watched, the video is where the bad guy tries to escape with a girl in the plane.

[1:06:19] But Mariner snags it with a grappling hook and it crashes.

[1:06:22] He rescues Enola.

[1:06:23] He hugs her.

[1:06:24] And I found that hug after the extended cut feels very meaningful.

[1:06:28] Wow.

[1:06:29] He's like, this is why I came back, to save you because I love you.

[1:06:33] You're someone who I've come to care for.

[1:06:34] And if that shot is in the theatrical cut, I imagine it doesn't have quite the same meaning to it.

S4

[1:06:40] It's just like, he did it.

[1:06:41] I mean, it was a terrible plan, but he did succeed.

[1:06:44] He managed to pull it off anyway, yeah.

[1:06:46] The action leading up.

Stuart Wellington

[1:06:47] I was just going to say, every moment when every step of his plan relies on him finding what he needs right now.

[1:06:53] Right there, yeah.

[1:06:55] So he's like, oh, an anchor, great.

[1:06:56] And a cable, I can attach that.

[1:06:58] Cool, I'll slide down.

[1:06:59] Wow, another cable, perfect.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:01] This was one of those moments where I was really like, oh, action movies are predicated on the idea of people doing physical things that would only work if they were pre-planned ahead of time.

[1:07:10] Like, there's no way to do these things spontaneously.

[1:07:13] But Todd, you were going to say something.

S4

[1:07:14] Well, the action that leads up to him doing the zip lining thing is the most inconsequential action in the movie.

[1:07:21] All of a sudden he becomes.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:23] At this, whenever it turns, I've found that the older I get, the more action scenes just become kind of like a stew that I kind of like.

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:29] He's in the belly of the Ds.

S4

[1:07:31] Yeah, yeah.

[1:07:32] He's in the belly of the Ds and he's just picking off guys.

[1:07:36] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1:07:37] And like their whole place is blowing up.

[1:07:39] This is another one of those things about action movies where like the henchmen, it's like shit is going down everybody, but then they're still loyal to the boss.

[1:07:46] They've still got their eye on job one.

[1:07:47] Yeah.

[1:07:48] They got to get that guy.

[1:07:49] So everything is blowing up.

[1:07:51] But they're like, where is he?

[1:07:52] There he is.

[1:07:52] And they're still going at him.

[1:07:54] And he's just doing all these cool moves and stuff.

[1:07:56] Totally inconsequential.

[1:07:58] But when he's on the top and he zip lines down and explosions behind him, I mean, that's a really cool stunt that Costner did himself.

[1:08:05] Those close-ups of him doing it, that's him.

[1:08:08] I think for a couple of the wide shots, it is a stunt performer.

[1:08:12] Pretty cool.

[1:08:13] And then he lands and there's a tracking shot of the plane taking off and he's running alongside it and he throws the anchor up to it, the conveniently placed anchor.

[1:08:26] Pretty neat shot.

[1:08:27] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:08:28] Pretty cool.

[1:08:29] But a lot of this action stuff, maybe I could suggest a reason it doesn't land as well.

[1:08:35] Up until this point, it's like the Mariner, like the reason the Mariner, I guess, is the best at being a guy on a boat is because he has a cool boat and he has fins.

[1:08:48] He lives there all the time.

[1:08:49] He knows it really well.

[1:08:50] He has fins and gills.

[1:08:51] Yeah.

[1:08:51] Like this part of it, it's just like, well, why is he just like a good action guy?

[1:08:56] Like this doesn't play to his boat or Gil Bay strengths.

[1:09:01] What is this?

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:03] This part of the movie, I have to admit, it starts feeling very generic to me.

[1:09:07] Before that, even the action scenes had kind of like a, even though even as Mad Max ripoffy as they are, they had a certain personality and character to them.

[1:09:14] And here it just feels like John McClane could be doing this.

[1:09:17] Ethan Hunt could be doing this.

[1:09:18] Like there's nothing.

[1:09:19] It doesn't play to it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:09:20] You just named two of the best guys.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:21] No, no, but I mean like, but they're just guys.

[1:09:23] They're not fishmen who live in a water world.

[1:09:25] You know, this could be any, this could be any action star.

Stuart Wellington

[1:09:27] Ethan Hunt could grow gills if he needed to.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:30] If there's one action star, I imagine Tom Cruise is, they're like, Tom, for this movie, we need to surgically implant gills in your neck.

[1:09:35] Now you may not be able to breathe air anymore.

[1:09:37] All right, I'll do it for the part.

[1:09:38] You know, anything.

Dan McCoy

[1:09:39] I was just imagining like we need you to have gills.

[1:09:41] And he just starts concentrating really hard.

[1:09:43] And the slits just open up.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:45] Because that's my training.

S4

[1:09:46] Yeah.

[1:09:46] Well, to Dan's point, like earlier in the movie when they're escaping the atoll, when he fires a grappling hook and he pulls the machine gun boat to hit the other.

[1:09:56] I mean, that's up his whale house.

[1:09:58] That's his strength.

[1:10:01] Sliding, ziplining down and, you know, being kind of James Bond-y inside the thing.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:06] I mean, anything involving running should not be his strength.

[1:10:09] It's not like he's doing laps around the catamaran.

[1:10:11] Like he doesn't have a lot of room to do that.

S4

[1:10:13] The beginning of the movie, he stumbled like on dry land.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:17] So just at that moment, Gregor and Helen and the sheriff, he's back in the movie.

[1:10:25] They show up in the airship.

[1:10:26] They save our heroes.

[1:10:28] Deacon tries to climb aboard, but they knock him off into the ocean.

[1:10:31] And that's when, as the smoker tanker sinks, it's revealed to be the Exxon Valdez.

[1:10:35] Oh!

[1:10:36] Oh!

[1:10:37] Yeah.

[1:10:37] The whole time.

[1:10:38] It's a real payoff.

S4

[1:10:39] It was this, yeah.

[1:10:40] My theater was howling.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:42] They were like, ah, we get that.

[1:10:44] Anyway, the Deacon tries to, it's a, the Deacon, there's so much that doesn't make sense.

[1:10:50] I mean, oil tankers, they deteriorate fast from having oil in them.

[1:10:53] Also, it famously was a tanker that leaked.

[1:10:56] So the idea that they are now storing all their oil in it doesn't make sense.

[1:10:59] It's just, it's dumb.

[1:11:00] It's a dumb reference.

[1:11:01] So Deacon shoots the airship, which causes Enola to fall out of it.

[1:11:05] And this is the, this is the goofiest moment I feel like in the whole movie.

[1:11:09] And it's the most 90s moment where the mariner bungee jumps out of the airship and grabs

[1:11:13] her and pulls her up just in time for the Deacon and two of his henchmen to crash their

[1:11:17] jet skis into each other and explode.

[1:11:18] Together.

[1:11:19] I loved that moment.

[1:11:22] What was their plan?

[1:11:22] Were they going to, was one of them going to stop when they got to Enola?

[1:11:25] Were they just going to smash into her?

Dan McCoy

[1:11:26] Well, they were so distracted by the awesome bungee they just saw.

[1:11:29] By this awesome bodacious stunt they just saw.

[1:11:31] That's got to be it.

[1:11:32] So tubular.

Stuart Wellington

[1:11:33] They're like, how did he measure that right?

Dan McCoy

[1:11:35] I thought it was great other than I'm pretty sure that the fireball started before they

[1:11:41] all collided, but.

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:43] That's possible.

[1:11:44] I think that bungee stunt, the only thing that would have made it goofier to me is if

[1:11:46] they added a sproing sound effect to it.

[1:11:49] You know, it's, it's such a, it's not how ropes work.

[1:11:52] Like, I don't know what they're doing.

[1:11:53] You know, it's, but anyway, maybe they had a bungee cord in there.

Stuart Wellington

[1:11:55] Or if they had included a shot, like a Die Hard 2 style shot where like she, they spring

[1:11:59] up into the camera with the fireball beneath them and you see a close up on their face.

S4

[1:12:04] But that's it.

[1:12:04] But no, no, but that's in there.

[1:12:06] It's looking down.

[1:12:08] Oh, that's right.

[1:12:09] There is one like that.

[1:12:09] And you see the Mariner like looking up and you see his face.

[1:12:12] And I'm like, this is Die Hard 2.

[1:12:14] Yeah.

[1:12:15] Which is, it's, if, if they had just gone one step lower and not shown Costner's face,

[1:12:24] you know, it, I think it would have been a little less like a stagey, but when he looks

[1:12:30] up and you see his face, it kind of doesn't.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:32] Well, this movie was pitched as, it was pitched as Die Hard on the entire ocean, which is a

[1:12:38] limited amount of space.

[1:12:39] Yeah.

[1:12:40] You know, it still, it still has boundaries.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:42] Yeah.

[1:12:42] What if some bad guys were trapped on the entire ocean with a good guy?

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:46] They could have gotten away with just having Deacon fall out of the airship into the ocean.

[1:12:51] Like you don't need to.

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:52] And have a shark bite him out of midair.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:54] Yeah, exactly.

[1:12:55] Yeah.

[1:12:55] That would be great.

[1:12:56] That big fish that we saw eat cat earlier.

[1:12:58] The shits earlier.

[1:12:59] Yeah.

[1:12:59] Just have it jump up and eat him.

[1:13:00] And it's like, Kevin Costner's like, thanks buddy.

[1:13:03] But they like that, that extra little beat so that they could make us think for a moment

[1:13:07] that what Enola's going to die at the end of all this, you know?

[1:13:10] Anyway, they, they, they client, they get back in the airship and Gregor finally decodes

[1:13:17] the map on the back of her.

[1:13:19] That there are numbers on it that he couldn't understand, but he kind of coordinates them

[1:13:23] with, I forget where he got this document from.

[1:13:25] It was from the Mariner or not.

[1:13:26] And he realizes that they're longitude and latitude lines that, that is a science that

[1:13:30] they have forgotten at this point.

[1:13:32] But now he's like, oh, it must relate to where the, the, the earth, the earth is in relation

[1:13:36] to the sun and blah, blah, blah, blah.

[1:13:37] So they, he now knows where dry land and he goes, dry land is that way and points the exact

[1:13:42] opposite direction of where they're going.

[1:13:45] They get to dry land.

[1:13:46] They're floating for a long time.

[1:13:47] They get to dry land.

[1:13:48] I actually really like the moment where the Mariner wakes up in the boat, in the basket

[1:13:52] and there's a seagull that has landed on the edge of the airship.

[1:13:55] And that's what tells them they're near dry land.

[1:13:57] I thought that's a nice touch.

[1:13:58] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:58] Bring in a little bit of Noah, a little bit of the Columbus story into there, you know.

[1:14:03] And then he bungee jumped off the boat after that.

[1:14:06] Yeah.

[1:14:07] He goes, watch this.

[1:14:07] It's going to be radical.

[1:14:09] Yeah.

[1:14:09] It's going to be fucking dope.

[1:14:10] He goes, hey, hey, do you think Chester Cheetah could do this?

[1:14:13] And he jumped out.

[1:14:14] Yeah.

[1:14:14] So they're marveling at the, they go to dry land, fresh water.

[1:14:18] There's trees.

[1:14:19] There's horses.

[1:14:19] They're marveling at all of it.

[1:14:21] They find a cabin with some skeletons inside.

[1:14:23] It's what, Hawaii?

[1:14:23] It's Hawaii, right?

[1:14:24] No, it's not Hawaii.

[1:14:25] It's not Hawaii.

[1:14:26] Because in the theatrical cut, I don't think you find out exactly where they are.

[1:14:30] In the extended cut, they do another reveal at the end.

[1:14:33] What's left of Enola's people is there.

[1:14:35] They're great.

[1:14:36] They made it.

[1:14:37] But the Mariner, he's got to be on the Marin.

[1:14:39] You know, he's got to be in the water.

[1:14:42] Yeah, Dan?

Dan McCoy

[1:14:42] I want to back up just one quick moment.

[1:14:43] I know we're close to the end.

[1:14:44] I like that movie, Dan.

[1:14:45] Mm.

[1:14:47] So purportedly, the skeleton couple, you know, before they died, set Enola out to see, like,

[1:14:55] Moses-like.

[1:14:56] But on the whole open ocean, like.

[1:14:59] Yeah, it was a dump.

[1:14:59] A bassinet of, I don't understand.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:02] Yeah, that apparently they put her in a basket and just floated her out.

[1:15:04] And she was lucky enough that she found other people before she died.

[1:15:07] Yeah, she went straight to that at all.

[1:15:08] Of exposure.

[1:15:09] Because also the thing is, babies, they last less long than regular, than grown-up people

[1:15:13] on the open ocean.

[1:15:14] You don't say.

[1:15:15] No, they have to eat, like, every, they can't hold that much food in their tummies.

[1:15:18] They got to eat, like, every few hours.

[1:15:20] They're constantly pooping.

[1:15:20] You should test this.

[1:15:21] So you got to imagine that basket was also full of, just full of poop.

[1:15:24] Just gross.

[1:15:24] Yeah.

[1:15:25] So of all the things in the movie that are big leaps of logic, this is certainly the biggest.

[1:15:32] And I, why did they, and she, Helen's like, they must have known they were dying.

[1:15:36] And it's like, ugh.

[1:15:36] So they, it doesn't, none of it makes sense.

[1:15:38] Anyway.

[1:15:39] We're all dying, ma'am.

[1:15:41] Yeah.

[1:15:41] We've been dying since the day you were born.

[1:15:42] Are they implying that the, you know, it's all been planned.

S4

[1:15:44] The tune that she's been humming the whole time was that music box.

[1:15:47] Was that music box?

[1:15:48] Yeah.

[1:15:48] I don't buy that.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:49] If she was a baby when they put her in it, there's no way.

[1:15:52] Yeah, they find a music box.

[1:15:53] But she remembers everything.

[1:15:55] They've made a point of that.

[1:15:56] Well, she draws things that come from her memories of the dry land.

[1:16:00] Like she, even before her vision and object permanence was fully developed, she could see horses and can now draw them.

Dan McCoy

[1:16:07] I mean, this whole idea of her being, like this is, like on a script level, this is one of the things that annoys me the most is like, they're just like sort of tossing in this kind of pseudo chosen one child.

[1:16:21] I mean, like she's not special, but she has like a map to the promised land.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:25] Well, and it's also, they're doing a lot of the thing that movies do too much of, in my opinion, which often, which is like, got to tie up every reference.

[1:16:34] Everything's got to point to something else.

[1:16:35] So, like if she's humming a tune, it's got to be that she heard it there.

[1:16:38] If she's drawing things, it's got to be that she's, it's stuff she remembers.

[1:16:41] Like there's no, a thing can't happen and just be on its own.

[1:16:44] It's got to pay, or like if they can't just be on a tanker, it's got to be the Exxon Valdez, you know.

[1:16:49] It's got to tie up to something.

[1:16:51] A lot of IP is what I'm saying.

[1:16:53] The Exxon Valdez IP was very valuable at the time, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[1:16:55] The name recognition is huge.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:58] People would have liked the movie.

[1:17:00] Well, like if Benedict Cumberbatch is going to play a villain in a Star Trek movie, it can't be a new character.

[1:17:04] It has to be con, you know, that kind of stuff.

[1:17:06] Anyway, Enola's mad because the mariner is leaving them and the, and she, she doesn't want to say goodbye to him.

[1:17:13] She runs away instead of saying goodbye.

[1:17:14] And the mariner kisses Helen and he goes, well, I'm leaving, but everyone I'll see, I'll tell them to go to dry land.

[1:17:19] I'll tell them the direction of it.

[1:17:20] And I almost want her to be like, did you see most of the other people on the ocean?

[1:17:24] I don't know that we want them here necessarily.

[1:17:26] They were dicks.

[1:17:27] And I think none of this is in the version of Sean.

Stuart Wellington

[1:17:29] Yeah, every crazed drifter I come across, I will send them your way.

Elliott Kalan

[1:17:33] I'll tell them where there's a lady and a little girl that they can, that they can bring their paper to.

[1:17:38] And she says, before you go, I have a gift I want to give you.

[1:17:40] And he goes, I don't want a gift.

[1:17:41] She goes, I'm going to give you a name because he doesn't have a name.

[1:17:43] And she tells him the story of a, of a, of a great sailor who angered the, the God of the sea.

[1:17:49] And so was cursed to wander the earth for 10 years and could never get home.

[1:17:53] And his name was Ulysses.

[1:17:53] And I'm going to name you Ulysses.

[1:17:55] Leopold Bloom.

[1:17:57] I thought it was Captain Stubing.

[1:17:59] So I'm naming you, I'm naming you Ulysses.

[1:18:02] And he goes, well, technically you should name me Odysseus.

[1:18:04] And she's like, forget it, forget it.

[1:18:06] Just leave then.

[1:18:06] I don't need that kind of shit.

[1:18:07] Anyway.

[1:18:07] That wasn't in our cut, right?

[1:18:09] That was.

[1:18:09] Nope.

[1:18:10] I think that's just in the extended cut.

[1:18:11] Yeah.

[1:18:11] And he sails off.

[1:18:13] And then, and I know that this is also not in the theatrical cut.

[1:18:16] Helen and Enola, they, they climb a peak and they find a plaque that tells them this is

[1:18:21] the spot where Sir Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay first set foot on Mount Everest.

[1:18:25] And I was like, come on.

[1:18:28] And it's treated like it's the Statue of Liberty reveal in Planet of the Apes.

[1:18:30] Like, oh.

[1:18:31] Right.

[1:18:32] Right.

[1:18:32] And it's totally unnecessary.

[1:18:33] It doesn't matter.

[1:18:34] It has no meaning.

[1:18:35] The Statue of Liberty has a meaning in Planet of the Apes because what it shows him is

[1:18:38] this is earth and the things he loves, head loves have been destroyed.

[1:18:42] You know?

Dan McCoy

[1:18:43] Whereas, okay, it's the top of Mount Everest.

[1:18:45] Who gives a shit?

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:46] I don't.

[1:18:46] Like, it doesn't mean anything to anybody.

[1:18:48] Like, I assume there's some shit like that.

[1:18:50] Yeah.

[1:18:50] It's got to be a tall mountain.

[1:18:51] It's above the water.

[1:18:52] Okay.

[1:18:53] But, and that's the end of the movie.

[1:18:54] And that's it.

S4

[1:18:55] I mean, it's unfair to compare it to Road Warrior, like I said.

[1:18:58] But it's like, Road Warrior has none of those, like, cutesy tie-ins.

[1:19:02] Like, not a lot of setup pay off.

[1:19:04] It's just pure adrenaline, pure momentum.

[1:19:07] And that's-

[1:19:08] Pure adrenaline.

[1:19:08] Hardly in the dialogue.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:09] Raves, Todd Vaziri.

[1:19:11] And that, in those, in the Mad Max movies, they're so, except the, I mean, the first one

[1:19:15] is set in just kind of like a near future where they steal the civilization.

[1:19:18] But in the sequels-

[1:19:19] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:19] Normal Australia.

[1:19:20] Normal Australia where there's biker gangs swarming around killing people.

[1:19:23] But in the sequels, they're clearly living in the detritus of an earlier age.

[1:19:29] But there isn't any of that, like, yeah, none of that cute stuff.

[1:19:32] Or like, you know, it's not like Zardoz where it's like, oh, yeah, where I took it from

[1:19:36] the Wizard of Oz.

[1:19:37] Anyway, that it's our world.

[1:19:39] It's a, yeah, there's just not, you don't need it.

[1:19:42] You don't need that stuff.

[1:19:43] Don't need it.

[1:19:43] Unless it is something like Planet of the Apes where it is so thematically meaningful,

[1:19:47] you know.

[1:19:47] But what a world.

[1:19:49] Should we get to Final Judgment?

[1:19:50] Guys, the main, well, yeah, we should get to Final Judgment.

Dan McCoy

[1:19:53] But before that, I'm going to pitch you, the makers of pure, from the makers of pure moods,

[1:19:58] pure adrenaline, for when you're too chilled out, you need pure adrenaline to come in and

[1:20:04] even it back out to center yourself, you know.

[1:20:08] Between the two, you got everything you need.

Stuart Wellington

[1:20:10] Yeah.

[1:20:10] Yeah, just watch like a Safdie Brothers movie or something.

Elliott Kalan

[1:20:16] Okay.

[1:20:17] Wait a minute.

[1:20:18] That might be too much pure adrenaline at that point.

Dan McCoy

[1:20:21] Yeah, you just listen to more Ornico Flow or whatever it's called.

[1:20:26] Ornoco Flow.

[1:20:29] Hi, I'm Flo from Ornoco.

[1:20:33] So, Final Judgment.

[1:20:36] Is this a good, bad movie, a bad, bad movie, or a movie you kind of like?

[1:20:41] I'm going to say, I think it's pretty clear from the way I've been talking about it.

[1:20:46] I think probably most of us agree, but I'm not going to make any assumptions.

[1:20:50] It's a movie I kind of like.

[1:20:51] It's like certainly nowhere near the failure it was made out to be.

[1:20:56] It either needs, I think, more of the stuff that got cut from it, because that sounds like

[1:21:03] it would have deepened it, or it needs less of the stuff that's in the theatrical cut,

[1:21:07] because then it could be more of just an adrenaline rush.

[1:21:10] It's like a little two-betwixt in between, but I think it's pretty good.

[1:21:15] I mean, enjoyable.

Stuart Wellington

[1:21:17] Yeah, I'm with you.

[1:21:18] I'm going to say it's a movie I kind of liked.

[1:21:19] I wish there was two more bungee jump scenes, but that's okay.

[1:21:24] I remember seeing it in the theater and being like, yeah, this is good, but not like loving it.

[1:21:28] And I kind of feel the same way.

[1:21:30] Like, I think tonally it doesn't all work.

[1:21:32] And like, Costner feels overly harsh in large chunks of what seems like a fun romp.

[1:21:39] But yeah, I don't know.

[1:21:40] It's fine.

[1:21:41] It's, yeah, I mean, I would love for a movie, a studio to put out a water world these days.

[1:21:47] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:21:48] I mean, it's a movie I like.

[1:21:50] I'm a sucker for post-apocalyptic stuff as much as I've been ragging on certain aspects of it.

[1:21:55] But it's a movie that, in the extended version, really works even much better.

[1:22:00] The tone is not quite as, is not perfect, but it is less jarring.

[1:22:05] It's hard, a movie like this, it's hard to know who you're making it for.

[1:22:08] Like, it has to be a PG-13 movie because it's so expensive, so it can't be quite as rough as it needs to be.

[1:22:13] And it's a movie in search of an audience.

[1:22:16] And like, I'm that audience, but I don't know how much of me there is in the world.

[1:22:19] I mean, there's a lot of me in Hollywood, I guess.

[1:22:21] Like, kind of nerdy Jewish guys.

[1:22:23] And so they want to see new movies and they make them.

[1:22:25] But there's a movie that I feel like got unfairly slammed.

[1:22:31] I don't see a world where this gets great reviews across the board and is nominated for awards.

[1:22:36] But I would like to see a movie like this more where it's a big action movie that's not based on a thing.

[1:22:42] Like, this is, I mean, this is, they should say adapted from the Mad Max movies.

[1:22:46] But it's like that it's a somewhat original thing.

[1:22:49] And I don't know.

[1:22:49] And it's very fun.

Stuart Wellington

[1:22:50] And you said it didn't get, it won't get nominated for awards.

[1:22:53] But it did get nominated for best stunt show, right?

Elliott Kalan

[1:22:56] Yes.

[1:22:57] I mean, I think it was nominated for a sound award, I think.

[1:22:59] But like, this is the kind of thing that, I mean, there's a, I'm excited that I live in a world where Fury Road exists.

[1:23:06] Which is like the much better version of this kind of thing.

[1:23:10] And it does get the respect it deserves.

[1:23:11] But it just shows you the level of quality a movie like this has to be at to get respect.

[1:23:16] It has to be Fury Road, which is nearly perfect.

[1:23:19] And Waterworld, which is very imperfect, I think it doesn't, it didn't get a fair shake.

[1:23:22] But I like it.

[1:23:23] Todd, what do you think?

S4

[1:23:24] You hate it, right?

[1:23:25] No, I'm going to make it unanimous.

[1:23:27] It's a movie I kind of like.

[1:23:28] I would never go out of my way to defend this movie.

[1:23:30] And I probably, I don't know if I would recommend it unless you, you know, really wanted to see some beautiful vistas and, you know, hang out on the water.

[1:23:38] You're really a big Kevin Costner fan.

[1:23:41] There's a lot to like about it.

[1:23:42] And there's a lot to like nitpick.

[1:23:44] And it's actually kind of fun to talk about after and do it with the people you're watching it with and do a postmortem and go, what worked and what didn't.

[1:23:52] Because there's a lot to talk about.

[1:23:54] And I especially like what Dan said is like a little more or a little less probably would have been better.

[1:24:02] Because where we are, it's a little disjointed and all over the place.

Elliott Kalan

[1:24:06] I feel like this is a movie that works best in a world where it can be the length it needs to be and does not have to sell Mariner action figures.

[1:24:14] And then it can kind of be the movie that it wants to be as opposed to the movie that it needs.

[1:24:18] It reminds me a lot of the David Lynch Dune in some ways where it's like this doesn't totally work.

[1:24:24] There's a lot of neat, interesting things in it.

[1:24:26] But this is not something that I would sell coloring books or playsets off of.

[1:24:30] And this kind of had to do that, you know.

S4

[1:24:32] And it's a big swing.

[1:24:33] I mean this is production.

[1:24:36] A big swim.

[1:24:36] Nothing looks like it.

[1:24:37] It's a big swim.

[1:24:38] Nothing looks like this movie.

[1:24:40] And that's kind of cool.

Elliott Kalan

[1:24:42] It's crazy to say.

[1:24:43] I didn't think about this until now.

[1:24:44] How much of this movie takes place in full daylight under the sun?

[1:24:49] And like it's not something you see a lot in these types of movies.

[1:24:53] There's very few night scenes.

[1:24:55] There's almost no night action scenes.

[1:24:57] Like everything is like right on camera, right on screen.

[1:24:59] They can't hide things, you know, unless they're digitally cleaning it up.

[1:25:03] But it's amazing how there's a story to be made.

[1:25:05] There's a book to be written about how all special effects movies afterwards owe a debt to Waterworld, I guess.

[1:25:12] But I'm not going to write that book.

[1:25:14] I don't know enough about it.

[1:25:15] It would take some kind of special effects king to do that.

[1:25:18] Huh?

Stuart Wellington

[1:25:19] We don't know any of those.

[1:25:20] No, no, no.

[1:25:21] Me neither.

[1:25:21] I don't know any.

[1:25:22] No.

S5

[1:25:26] I'm Jordan Cruciola, host of Feeling Seed, where we start by asking our guests just one question.

[1:25:32] What movie character made you feel seen?

Stuart Wellington

[1:25:35] I knew exactly what it was.

S5

[1:25:36] Valentine from Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.

S4

[1:25:41] Joy Wang slash Chabu Tupaki.

S5

[1:25:43] That one question launches amazing conversations about their lives, the movies they love, and about the past, present, and future of entertainment.

S4

[1:25:51] Roy in Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

S6

[1:25:54] I worry about what this might say about me, but I've brought Tracy Flick in the film Election.

S5

[1:26:01] So if you like movies, diverse perspectives, and great conversations, check us out.

S6

[1:26:05] Oof, this is real.

S5

[1:26:06] New episodes of Feeling Seed drop every week on MaximumFun.org.

S6

[1:26:12] Oh my gosh, hi, it's me, Dave Holmes, host of the pop culture game show Troubled Waters.

[1:26:16] On Troubled Waters, we play a whole host of games, like one where I describe a show using a limerick, and our guests have to figure out what it is.

[1:26:23] Let's do one right now.

[1:26:24] What show am I talking about?

[1:26:25] This podcast has game after game, and brilliant guests who come play him.

[1:26:29] The host is named Dave.

[1:26:31] It could be your fave, so try it.

[1:26:33] Life won't be the same.

[1:26:34] Uh, Big Business starring Bette Midler and Lily Tomlin.

[1:26:37] Close, but no.

Dan McCoy

[1:26:38] Oh, is it Troubled Waters, the pop culture quiz show with all your favorite comedians?

S6

[1:26:42] Yes, Troubled Waters is the answer.

[1:26:45] To this question, and all of my life's problems.

[1:26:48] Now, legally, we actually can't guarantee that.

[1:26:50] But you can find it on MaximumFun.org, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Stuart Wellington

[1:26:56] Hey, today the Flophouse is sponsored in part by Smalls.

[1:27:00] Now, I don't know about you, but I have two little kitties that live in my house, and I love them to pieces.

[1:27:06] In fact, I love them so much, I need to give them pieces of food all the time.

[1:27:10] And you know who makes delicious pieces of food?

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[1:27:39] Whether you donate $3 for treats, $5,000 for vaccines, or $7 for spaying or neutering.

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[1:27:48] You can donate.

[1:27:50] So, we love Smalls.

[1:27:52] Our cats love Smalls.

[1:27:53] When I bring the box inside, the cats rub all over that thing.

[1:27:56] And not just because it's a box, it's because it's filled with stuff they like.

[1:27:59] So, is your cat food giving back to cats in need?

[1:28:03] Well, Smalls is.

[1:28:04] So, if you want to give Smalls a try and ditch kibble forever, head over to smalls.com slash flop and use promo code flop at checkout for 50% off your first order, plus free shipping.

[1:28:15] That's the best offer you're going to find anywhere.

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Elliott Kalan

[1:28:31] We're also sponsored by Babbel.

[1:28:33] Guys, what do you call a person who speaks three languages?

[1:28:36] Right, trilingual.

[1:28:37] I'll answer for you.

[1:28:37] Someone who speaks two languages?

[1:28:39] Bilingual.

[1:28:39] Someone who speaks one language?

[1:28:41] American.

[1:28:42] Wah, wah, wah, wah.

[1:28:44] But it's true.

[1:28:45] Only 22% of Americans speak a language other than English at home.

[1:28:48] I know it is something that I am deeply disappointed in myself about.

[1:28:51] I've always wanted to speak another language.

[1:28:53] I feel like it's really limited me as a traveler, as someone who kind of can get into the mindset of people in other parts of the world to know their language to be able to speak that way.

[1:29:01] So why not start learning a new language this fall and be the exception to that, not the rule?

[1:29:06] With Babbel, you start speaking a new language in just three weeks.

[1:29:09] Look, why Babbel?

[1:29:11] It works.

[1:29:12] I've been playing with Babbel.

[1:29:13] I've been enjoying it.

[1:29:14] And I find that the words get into my head quicker.

[1:29:17] I can remember them a little bit easier.

[1:29:19] I think because the way they lead you through the learning of it feels very natural.

[1:29:23] It feels very organic.

[1:29:25] It's taking you through real situations.

[1:29:27] It's not telling you to ask where the library is, although I do want to know where the library is when I travel to different places, even though I can't read those books because I don't know the language yet.

[1:29:35] Instead of paying hundreds of dollars for a private tutor or fooling yourself with a language app that's basically just a game.

[1:29:41] We love games, but they're not going to teach you languages.

[1:29:44] Babbel's quick 10-minute lessons are designed by over 150 language experts to help you start speaking a new language in as little as three weeks.

[1:29:51] It might take you a little longer, but it could be as little as three weeks.

[1:29:53] It probably won't take you less.

[1:29:55] But who knows?

[1:29:55] Maybe you're just that good at it.

[1:29:56] I don't know.

[1:29:56] One study found that using Babbel for 15 hours is equivalent to a full semester at college.

[1:30:02] A study found that.

[1:30:04] Someone studied it and found that.

[1:30:06] Like I said, I found the Babbel courses are super quick.

[1:30:09] They're super easy.

[1:30:10] I found I had to slow myself down because I was enjoying them so much, and I was finding them so straightforward and so simple that I was going through them really quickly.

[1:30:18] I kind of wanted to make sure that the words stuck in my head.

[1:30:21] You pick up real things that you would say, how to talk to people, how to order food, how to ask for directions, how to speak to people in stores without having to use an app on vacation because you know it now, and you're not learning the stuff that would be neat to know but isn't that useful, like how to say dinosaur in other languages, which I do want to know.

[1:30:38] Let's just say that when it comes to Babbel's language learning, I like or me gusta.

[1:30:47] There you go.

[1:30:48] Here's a special limited-time deal for our listeners to get you started right now.

[1:30:52] Get 55% off your Babbel subscription, only for our listeners, at babbel.com slash flop.

[1:30:57] If you try to go there and you are not a listener, you'll be rejected.

[1:31:00] So get 55% off at babbel.com slash flop, spelled B-A-B-B-E-L.com slash flop.

[1:31:08] Rules and restrictions may apply, but go to babbel.com slash flop for 55% off.

Dan McCoy

[1:31:13] And we also have a j-j-j-j-jumbotron.

[1:31:17] This one is for MJ, and it's from Mora, who says,

[1:31:22] Happy anniversary!

[1:31:24] The traditional gift for the fourth anniversary is fruit.

[1:31:28] So here's a shout-out from the Peaches.

[1:31:30] Me and the ghouly girl are incredibly lucky to have you as a husband and father.

[1:31:35] Here's to many more years of wing nights, singing silly songs to that baby,

[1:31:40] and you patiently explaining board game rules to me.

[1:31:44] I love you so much.

[1:31:45] That's, you know, we just talked about the difficulty of explaining board game rules.

[1:31:51] It's a good test of—

[1:31:52] And boardroom ghouls, yeah.

[1:31:54] Boardroom ghouls.

[1:31:55] It's a good test of patience and kindness.

[1:31:59] Yeah.

[1:31:59] So it's a good marker of what sounds like a nice relationship.

Elliott Kalan

[1:32:03] Before we go, I just want to mention the Flophouse is also brought to you by The Flophouse.

[1:32:07] And, of course, as I've said many times, November 4th, it's the first Saturday of the month.

[1:32:12] It's the next episode of Flophouse, our online TV version of The Flophouse.

[1:32:16] You get to see us and hear us instead of just hearing us.

[1:32:19] We give a presentation.

[1:32:21] We go through a movie, and we answer questions from the audience.

[1:32:24] It's super fun.

[1:32:25] We're on episode four.

[1:32:27] We're halfway through our six-episode season, and we're going to be doing Over the Top on November 4th.

[1:32:32] Over the Top, starring Sylvester Stallone's arms, and also the rest of his body that are attached to.

[1:32:36] It was an arm wrestling movie.

[1:32:37] That's why I put it that way.

[1:32:38] Tickets are at theflophouse.simpleticks.com.

[1:32:41] Again, that's theflophouse.simpleticks.com.

[1:32:44] You can get a ticket for that episode or buy a season pass, and the season pass gets you access to the videos of all the previous episodes.

[1:32:52] So if you can't join us on November 4th, don't despair.

[1:32:55] Your ticket still gets you access to that video.

[1:32:58] Guys, I've been really enjoying doing Flop TV with you.

[1:33:01] It's been super fun.

[1:33:02] And we're going to have these next three episodes, and then I think we'll take a break, and then we'll see what the future may hold for it.

[1:33:08] And I also want to mention, as I did last week, that Hades No. 3, the most recent issue of my Hades comic series starring the Disney villain of the same name, is out in stores now from Dynamite.

[1:33:19] And it's the third issue of a fun story.

[1:33:21] It's a heist story.

[1:33:21] It's an ancient Greek story.

[1:33:22] It's a funny story.

[1:33:23] It's a five-issue miniseries.

[1:33:25] Pick up issue three.

[1:33:26] Maybe pick up issue one and two.

[1:33:27] Go to your local comic book store.

[1:33:28] Buy it there.

[1:33:29] Do it.

[1:33:29] I'm telling you.

[1:33:30] Do it right now.

[1:33:31] Do it.

[1:33:31] You're listening to this on headphones.

[1:33:32] Okay.

[1:33:32] Get in your car or walk over there.

[1:33:34] Get money out of your pocket.

[1:33:35] All right, fine.

[1:33:35] Hand it to that guy, the guy who wears the comes for it.

[1:33:37] Dan, go do it right now.

[1:33:38] Dan, do it.

[1:33:39] All right.

Dan McCoy

[1:33:41] Let's move on to letters from listeners.

[1:33:45] Are you a listener?

[1:33:45] Yes, you are.

[1:33:47] Did you write a letter?

[1:33:48] Who knows?

[1:33:48] I don't know.

[1:33:49] Maybe.

[1:33:49] Well, you know.

[1:33:51] Is this one yours?

[1:33:52] Unless they forgot.

Elliott Kalan

[1:33:53] They wrote it in some kind of blackout stupor.

[1:33:55] And they'll hear it on the podcast and they'll be like,

[1:33:57] I don't remember saying that.

[1:33:58] They're putting words in my mouth.

Dan McCoy

[1:34:01] This first one is from Mr. McCullough,

[1:34:04] first name withheld, for reasons we'll see.

[1:34:07] David McCullough.

[1:34:07] Uh-huh.

[1:34:09] On episode 407, Jason takes Manhattan.

[1:34:12] I learned that a character in the movie was named Mr. McCullough.

[1:34:16] I'd like to think my father is Mr. McCullough,

[1:34:18] but at my age, I am now too.

[1:34:20] Anyway, to hear Stuart say my name over and over again in the episode

[1:34:24] was a bit disconcerting, to say the least.

[1:34:26] I would think a fantasy pleasure to hear Stuart say your name.

[1:34:29] True fantasy, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:34:31] Yeah.

[1:34:31] Hearing about getting drowned in a bucket of toxic waste.

Dan McCoy

[1:34:36] McCullough is not the most uncommon name,

[1:34:38] but still you don't tend to hear it 30 times on your favorite podcast.

[1:34:42] My question is, has that ever happened to you in a movie?

[1:34:46] Some nugget of the movie was so close to your personal life

[1:34:49] that it took you aback and maybe took you out of the movie a bit?

[1:34:52] Maybe it was set in your hometown or your alma mater.

[1:34:56] Matter.

[1:34:57] I believe Elliot has spoken.

[1:34:59] Isn't that the guy from Cars?

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:01] Yeah, Mater is the guy from Cars.

[1:35:02] Yeah.

[1:35:03] The tow truck.

[1:35:04] Played by Larry T. Cable guy.

[1:35:06] Larry TC guy.

Dan McCoy

[1:35:07] You know what was happening?

[1:35:09] I was, never mind.

[1:35:10] I believe Elliot has spoken before about how the main character of E.T.

[1:35:14] sharing his first name has been a problem for him.

[1:35:16] Very much so.

[1:35:17] Has the plot of a movie ever hit so close to home

[1:35:19] that it basically ruined the movie magic?

[1:35:22] Mr. McCullough, first name withheld.

[1:35:24] Now, I mean, yeah, obviously the word,

[1:35:26] the name thing is a little different, I guess.

[1:35:30] I too, when I was a kid, because of Karate Kid,

[1:35:35] a lot of my classmates kept saying Daniel-san to me all the time.

[1:35:39] Okay.

[1:35:39] Did that last for your whole life?

[1:35:41] This is a movie I like, but no.

[1:35:44] Okay.

[1:35:44] No, not at all.

[1:35:45] I mean, having the last name McCoy has been more

[1:35:48] in the way of lifelong name references.

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:53] I remember when I used to host a live talk show on a stage

[1:35:58] in a theater, I wanted Dan to do a segment on it

[1:36:01] called The Real McCoy with Dan McCoy.

[1:36:03] And Dan was like, please, do I have to call it that?

[1:36:05] I don't want to call it that.

[1:36:06] He got so frustrated.

Dan McCoy

[1:36:09] Yeah.

[1:36:10] You know, you get a life of people asking

[1:36:11] whether that's what you are, and that's what gets you.

Stuart Wellington

[1:36:15] I will say, anytime there's a character named Stuart

[1:36:19] in something, they are usually not the coolest dude

[1:36:22] in the movie.

[1:36:23] Well, what about Stuber?

[1:36:25] Yeah, or Stuart Smalley.

[1:36:26] I haven't seen Stuart.

[1:36:27] Yeah, Stuart Smalley.

[1:36:29] Is that the one who saves his family?

[1:36:31] Stuart is often like, might be like Judy Greer's new husband

[1:36:35] since she divorced the main character, like that sort of thing.

[1:36:40] Yeah.

[1:36:40] I'm like a busybody.

[1:36:41] Everybody loves Stuart Little.

[1:36:43] Yes.

[1:36:43] Stuart Little, people love him.

[1:36:44] People love him.

[1:36:45] That's not to love him.

[1:36:46] He's a mouse that popped out of a woman's vagina.

S4

[1:36:49] He drives a car.

[1:36:50] I guess I saw a different movie.

[1:36:52] Stu, I mean, one thing, you could say about your name,

[1:36:56] but Todd's in popular culture, not exactly cool.

[1:37:02] It's not great.

[1:37:04] It's rough out there for Todd's.

[1:37:06] I've been collecting.

Stuart Wellington

[1:37:07] It's a one-upsman game we could be playing,

[1:37:08] and I don't think it's a good idea for us to get involved.

[1:37:10] We'll just get sad.

S4

[1:37:12] Yeah, I've been collecting pop culture media references to Todd,

[1:37:16] and it's always like, Todd, you know?

[1:37:18] It's like the weasel Todd who screwed you out of something,

[1:37:22] and it's not great.

[1:37:25] But it takes you out of the movie?

Dan McCoy

[1:37:27] Takes you out of the movie, yeah.

S4

[1:37:29] Yeah.

[1:37:30] I mean, when something's close to home,

[1:37:32] like I think of if a movie takes place in a location that you know really well,

[1:37:40] and they take certain liberties with how they drive around,

[1:37:44] they walk two blocks, and they're all of a sudden a mile and a half away.

Elliott Kalan

[1:37:48] Tell me about the Hall of Dioramas in the Night at the Museum movie,

[1:37:52] and they go to an Egyptian wing in the Museum of Natural History.

[1:37:56] Excuse me?

[1:37:57] The Museum of Natural History has a mummy in it?

[1:37:59] I don't think so.

[1:38:00] I don't think so.

[1:38:01] Night at the Museum.

S4

[1:38:02] I mean, for me, it's like I grew up in Chicago.

[1:38:05] There's so many things about driving around in Chicago.

[1:38:09] I mean, Blues Brothers is the most ridiculous example,

[1:38:11] but, you know, just Ferris Bueller's Day Off,

[1:38:15] there's no way he could have done all that in one day.

[1:38:17] I don't know.

Stuart Wellington

[1:38:18] He's pretty good at what he does.

[1:38:21] Could Richard Kimball get framed by a one-armed man?

[1:38:24] Is that possible in Chicago?

[1:38:26] You find that man.

S4

[1:38:29] That's my Harrison Ford point, everybody.

Elliott Kalan

[1:38:32] And people don't break into song in Chicago nearly as much as they do in the movie Chicago.

[1:38:36] Yeah.

S4

[1:38:37] But it's like continuity errors.

[1:38:39] If you're into the movie, no one cares.

[1:38:42] Nobody even notices.

[1:38:43] You get a little chuckle, and then that's it.

Elliott Kalan

[1:38:46] I think it was on your Twitter feed, Todd,

[1:38:47] that you highlighted that moment at the end of Jurassic Park

[1:38:50] where the raptor disappears for a moment on screen.

[1:38:53] Oh, yeah.

[1:38:53] I was like, I had never noticed that before.

[1:38:55] I've seen that movie so many times,

[1:38:57] and now it's so clear to me when I see it,

[1:39:01] but it never occurred to me, ever.

S4

[1:39:03] It's literally one frame.

[1:39:04] It was a rendering error.

[1:39:05] It's hard to notice.

[1:39:06] But even more importantly, back up a little bit.

[1:39:09] So they're being chased by those two raptors.

[1:39:11] They didn't notice that T-Rex in the building?

Elliott Kalan

[1:39:16] This is an issue I've had before.

[1:39:17] The T-Rex where it's been established at length

[1:39:19] that when he steps, it causes the ground to shake.

[1:39:21] Right.

[1:39:22] But he snuck up on them.

[1:39:24] The T-Rex was behind them going,

[1:39:26] except he couldn't put his hand to his lips

[1:39:28] because his arms were so close.

[1:39:29] Yeah, it was a cut where he's on his tippy toes

Dan McCoy

[1:39:32] and is making the Flintstones.

Elliott Kalan

[1:39:35] Yeah.

[1:39:36] And then he jumped up in the air,

[1:39:37] bongo sound, bongo sound,

[1:39:38] as his feet spin around.

[1:39:39] And then, yeah.

S4

[1:39:40] I mean, to me, it's like,

[1:39:41] whatever's in the frame,

[1:39:43] that's what the audiences care about.

[1:39:45] It's like, you know, when somebody pops it.

[1:39:47] I mean, it's the whole basis of like Buster Keaton

[1:39:49] and like comedy.

[1:39:50] What happens in the frame is the world.

[1:39:53] And it's a little cheap to have the T-Rex come in.

[1:39:56] But, you know, it's okay.

Dan McCoy

[1:39:58] A little cheap, says Todd Vazir about Steven Spielberg.

[1:40:01] Wow.

[1:40:02] I've mentioned this, I think, before,

[1:40:05] so I won't linger on it.

[1:40:07] But there's like work stuff too,

[1:40:09] like watching that movie late night

[1:40:12] about a late night comedy show

[1:40:14] and just being baffled

[1:40:15] at how wrong it is about everything,

[1:40:19] especially considering,

[1:40:19] Yeah, you were saying like,

Stuart Wellington

[1:40:21] a female late night host is impossible.

[1:40:23] They're not funny.

[1:40:24] No, it's not.

[1:40:25] Dan said, not just the host,

[1:40:26] but also the writers,

Dan McCoy

[1:40:27] that the female writers

[1:40:28] for a late night show is unbelievable.

[1:40:29] There's a longstanding bit

[1:40:29] where you paint me as some sort of

[1:40:31] horrible reactionary.

[1:40:33] No, it's just wrong factually

[1:40:34] in a lot of the ways

[1:40:35] that those things are run.

[1:40:36] And I know that like,

[1:40:38] it was written by Mindy Kaling,

[1:40:40] who, you know,

[1:40:40] is a television person,

[1:40:41] but not a late night person.

[1:40:42] But I'm like, still like,

[1:40:43] you should know better

[1:40:45] than some of this stuff.

Elliott Kalan

[1:40:46] I'm sure you know the person

[1:40:46] to talk to at least.

[1:40:48] Yeah, yeah.

[1:40:48] About that.

Dan McCoy

[1:40:50] Anyone else?

Stuart Wellington

[1:40:50] Yeah, I mean,

[1:40:51] anytime anybody does something weird

[1:40:53] in a bar,

[1:40:53] obviously the most,

[1:40:54] I've said this a million times,

[1:40:56] but anytime somebody bellies up

[1:40:57] to a bar

[1:40:58] and they ask for a drink

[1:40:59] and they're like,

[1:40:59] leave the bottle.

[1:41:00] I'm like,

[1:41:00] how the fuck would they charge

[1:41:02] this person for that?

[1:41:04] How do you judge

[1:41:05] how much they're drinking?

[1:41:06] That doesn't make any sense.

Dan McCoy

[1:41:07] And it also seems unsafe.

[1:41:09] Yes, that's very true.

[1:41:10] Let me get out my,

[1:41:11] let me get out my scale

[1:41:14] and also an empty bottle

[1:41:16] so I can tear this thing first

[1:41:18] before weighing the

[1:41:19] remaining liquid in here.

[1:41:21] Hold on,

Elliott Kalan

[1:41:21] I have to call Archimedes

[1:41:22] to help me figure out

[1:41:23] how much has been displaced.

[1:41:25] Okay, let's see.

Stuart Wellington

[1:41:26] Archimedes or just John Taffer

[1:41:28] with his inventory system

[1:41:30] that he sells everybody.

Dan McCoy

[1:41:33] Let's move on.

[1:41:34] Here's one,

[1:41:35] I think this is

[1:41:35] most specifically for Stuart.

[1:41:39] Dear Stuart.

[1:41:40] Yeah, makes sense.

[1:41:41] From Daniel,

[1:41:42] last name withheld.

[1:41:43] Well,

[1:41:44] pardon me,

[1:41:44] the title of the subject heading is

[1:41:47] Warhammer 40,000

[1:41:49] plus horror monsters.

[1:41:51] Yeah,

[1:41:52] seems like it's for Stuart,

[1:41:53] right?

[1:41:53] It says,

[1:41:55] what chaos gods

[1:41:58] do you think

[1:41:59] famous horror movie monsters

[1:42:00] would follow?

[1:42:01] And here's where

[1:42:02] we get into trouble.

[1:42:02] Corn.

[1:42:03] Because Stuart

[1:42:04] has a stomach virus,

[1:42:06] so he's not sitting next to me

[1:42:08] like I thought he might be

[1:42:09] earlier

[1:42:10] and can't pronounce

[1:42:11] these words for me,

[1:42:12] but

[1:42:12] I don't want to hear that shit.

[1:42:15] Is Jason a servant

[1:42:16] of corn?

[1:42:18] Good job.

[1:42:19] Is Freddy Krueger

[1:42:20] working for

[1:42:21] Slanish?

[1:42:23] Slanish, yeah.

[1:42:24] Slanish.

[1:42:25] Are zombies

[1:42:26] just an expression

[1:42:27] of Nurgle's love?

[1:42:29] And are the gremlins

[1:42:30] just following

[1:42:31] Zinch?

[1:42:33] Zinch?

[1:42:34] Yeah,

[1:42:34] Zinch,

[1:42:34] the changer of ways?

[1:42:36] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:42:37] My favorite

[1:42:38] mispronunciation

[1:42:40] of that one

[1:42:41] when I worked

[1:42:42] at the hobby shop

[1:42:43] was when kids

[1:42:43] would call it

[1:42:44] Tisnich.

[1:42:45] Yeah.

[1:42:45] For those not

[1:42:46] in the know,

Dan McCoy

[1:42:48] I think I got

[1:42:49] pretty close

[1:42:50] considering

[1:42:50] it's spelled

[1:42:51] T-Z-E-E-N-T-C-H.

[1:42:56] So...

[1:42:56] Zinch.

[1:42:58] If you don't think

[1:42:59] they would follow

[1:42:59] the chaos god,

[1:43:00] maybe they're part

[1:43:01] of a different

[1:43:01] faction of

[1:43:02] WH40K.

[1:43:03] What do you think?

[1:43:04] Keep flopping.

Stuart Wellington

[1:43:06] Yeah,

[1:43:06] what famous...

[1:43:07] Obviously,

[1:43:09] reading this letter

[1:43:10] is mainly

[1:43:11] a Dan mispronouncing

[1:43:12] very common words

[1:43:14] delivery system.

[1:43:15] Yeah.

[1:43:17] We all know

[1:43:17] them here.

[1:43:17] I mean,

Stuart Wellington

[1:43:17] I feel like

[1:43:18] they're all

[1:43:18] worshiping

[1:43:19] Khorne,

[1:43:19] the lord of

[1:43:20] slaughter

[1:43:20] and bloodshed

[1:43:21] and skulls.

[1:43:22] But,

[1:43:23] I don't know,

[1:43:24] like,

[1:43:25] I feel like

[1:43:25] there's horror

[1:43:25] elements to

[1:43:26] all four

[1:43:26] of the chaos

[1:43:27] gods,

[1:43:27] not including,

[1:43:28] of course,

[1:43:28] the horned rat

[1:43:29] or Malal,

[1:43:31] the chaos god

[1:43:31] who kills

[1:43:32] the other chaos gods.

[1:43:33] But,

[1:43:34] you know,

[1:43:34] like Nurgle,

[1:43:35] there's a jolliness

[1:43:36] to him.

[1:43:37] I think there's

[1:43:38] obviously a little bit

[1:43:39] of,

[1:43:39] like,

[1:43:40] Freddy Krueger

[1:43:41] humor.

[1:43:42] I don't know

[1:43:43] if I would say

[1:43:44] Slanash.

[1:43:44] Well,

[1:43:45] he does play

[1:43:45] with people's

[1:43:46] fantasies a little bit,

[1:43:47] so that makes sense,

[1:43:48] too.

[1:43:48] Although,

[1:43:48] that's more of,

[1:43:49] like,

[1:43:49] Wishmaster territory.

[1:43:51] I think this is,

[1:43:52] now my,

[1:43:52] all my hosts,

[1:43:53] my co-hosts,

[1:43:54] are checking their phones,

[1:43:55] so I think it's time

[1:43:56] for us to move on.

[1:43:59] I was just looking up

Elliott Kalan

[1:44:01] more Warhammer stuff.

[1:44:04] I was looking at it

[1:44:05] to figure out

[1:44:06] what I'm going to recommend.

[1:44:06] Warhammer store

Stuart Wellington

[1:44:07] so I can go

[1:44:07] and read up.

Elliott Kalan

[1:44:09] Yeah.

[1:44:09] Well,

[1:44:09] I'm like,

[1:44:10] let me get all this down.

[1:44:11] Let me type it

[1:44:11] into my memo notes

[1:44:12] so that I can make sure

[1:44:13] to get all these

[1:44:13] characters,

[1:44:14] figures,

[1:44:15] characters.

[1:44:16] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:44:17] Okay,

[1:44:17] well,

[1:44:18] I guess we've all

[1:44:18] learned something

[1:44:19] today about

Elliott Kalan

[1:44:21] Warhammer.

[1:44:24] So, Todd,

[1:44:24] you mentioned you're not

[1:44:25] a Dungeons and Dragons guy,

[1:44:26] but you're heavy

[1:44:26] into Warhammer,

[1:44:27] right?

[1:44:30] Pass.

S4

[1:44:31] Oh, wow.

[1:44:33] No.

[1:44:34] All I know

[1:44:35] from Warhammer

[1:44:37] is what I've learned

[1:44:38] from Stuart

[1:44:39] over the years

Stuart Wellington

[1:44:40] on the flop.

[1:44:41] Okay,

[1:44:41] that's enough.

[1:44:43] Yeah,

[1:44:43] so if Amazon Studios

[1:44:45] is listening to this podcast

[1:44:46] and they're starting

[1:44:47] to staff out

[1:44:48] their teams

[1:44:49] working on their new

[1:44:50] hit Warhammer

[1:44:51] 40,000 TV show

[1:44:53] produced by

[1:44:53] Henry Cavill.

[1:44:55] Todd Vaziri's your guy

[1:44:57] is what we're saying.

Dan McCoy

[1:44:58] Hey,

[1:44:59] let's do recommendations

[1:45:00] of movies

[1:45:01] that we saw recently

[1:45:02] and enjoyed

[1:45:03] and you know what?

[1:45:06] Because it's a,

[1:45:07] it's an old favorite

[1:45:08] trope of the show,

[1:45:10] let me recommend

[1:45:11] something I saw

[1:45:11] on a plane

[1:45:12] on the way out

[1:45:13] to do our

[1:45:14] Vidiot's

[1:45:15] live shows

[1:45:16] just this last weekend.

[1:45:18] I watched

[1:45:19] Blackberry,

[1:45:20] the movie about

[1:45:21] the Blackberry.

[1:45:23] and

[1:45:24] yeah,

[1:45:25] it's another one

[1:45:26] of these movies

[1:45:27] that

[1:45:27] in the broad

[1:45:29] outlines,

[1:45:29] I'm like,

[1:45:31] you know,

[1:45:31] I can usually

[1:45:32] take or leave

[1:45:33] this type of film.

[1:45:34] If they're done

[1:45:34] poorly,

[1:45:36] I'm like,

[1:45:37] this could have

[1:45:37] just been like

[1:45:38] a feature magazine

[1:45:38] article about a company.

Stuart Wellington

[1:45:41] But when they're done

[1:45:42] well,

[1:45:43] there's a lot of

[1:45:44] sort of

[1:45:44] It's like a book

[1:45:45] about a company.

[1:45:46] Well,

Dan McCoy

[1:45:47] there can be a lot

[1:45:47] of juice

[1:45:48] in the business

[1:45:49] machinations

[1:45:49] of these things.

[1:45:50] juice in the Blackberry.

[1:45:52] Yep.

[1:45:53] At first,

[1:45:54] when I was watching

[1:45:54] this movie,

[1:45:55] I thought that

[1:45:56] sort of the lead

[1:45:58] nerds played

[1:45:59] by Jay Baruchel

[1:46:00] and I believe

[1:46:01] the director

[1:46:01] of the movie

[1:46:03] did the other

[1:46:04] kind of made

[1:46:04] nerd guy.

[1:46:05] I don't remember

[1:46:06] his name.

[1:46:07] Apologies.

[1:46:08] No way to find out.

[1:46:09] Yeah,

[1:46:09] there's no way.

[1:46:10] Couldn't have

[1:46:10] looked it up beforehand.

[1:46:11] Look it up

[1:46:11] your own time,

[1:46:14] listener.

[1:46:14] It's a little

[1:46:15] field trip for you.

[1:46:16] I like to leave

[1:46:16] one page

[1:46:17] left unwritten

[1:46:18] so there's an

[1:46:20] interactive component

[1:46:20] to every show.

[1:46:22] Wow.

[1:46:23] No,

[1:46:23] I found them

[1:46:23] a little broad

[1:46:25] at the beginning

[1:46:25] but as the movie

[1:46:26] went on,

[1:46:27] I think

[1:46:27] it rounded

[1:46:30] them out nicely

[1:46:30] and Glenn

[1:46:31] Howerton

[1:46:32] is never funnier

[1:46:33] than when he's

[1:46:34] just yelling

[1:46:35] in bafflement

[1:46:36] about these

[1:46:37] nerds

[1:46:38] who cannot

[1:46:39] conduct business

[1:46:40] and getting angry

[1:46:41] and throwing

[1:46:43] things around.

[1:46:45] I don't know.

[1:46:46] It was just

[1:46:47] kind of a

[1:46:49] funny

[1:46:50] informative movie

[1:46:51] that really did

[1:46:52] sort of capture

[1:46:53] a moment

[1:46:54] where it's like

[1:46:54] oh yeah

[1:46:55] there was a time

[1:46:55] between

[1:46:57] no phones

[1:46:58] ruling our lives

[1:46:59] and the iPhone

[1:46:59] ruling our lives

[1:47:00] that there was

[1:47:01] this brief burst

[1:47:02] of a company

[1:47:03] that shot

[1:47:04] through the air

[1:47:05] and then

[1:47:06] went away.

[1:47:08] What to learn

[1:47:08] from it?

[1:47:09] Who knows?

[1:47:09] But it was a fun

[1:47:10] movie to watch.

[1:47:12] What do you guys

[1:47:12] want to recommend?

Stuart Wellington

[1:47:13] I'm going to

[1:47:14] recommend a movie

[1:47:15] I also watched

[1:47:16] on the flight

[1:47:17] back from LA.

[1:47:18] I watched

[1:47:18] Past Lives

[1:47:20] directed by

[1:47:21] Celine Song

[1:47:22] I believe also

[1:47:23] written by Celine Song.

[1:47:23] Oh, that's right up

[1:47:23] your alley.

[1:47:24] It was

[1:47:25] oh was that

[1:47:26] oh no

[1:47:26] ha ha

[1:47:27] snaked him

[1:47:28] just revealed

[1:47:30] Todd was also

[1:47:31] going to recommend

[1:47:31] Past Lives

[1:47:32] so please

[1:47:32] add on to this.

[1:47:33] I'm sorry

[1:47:34] for snaking you

[1:47:35] on this one

[1:47:35] but I watched

[1:47:37] this movie

[1:47:38] it was exactly

[1:47:38] at my alley

[1:47:39] I was crying

[1:47:40] louder than

[1:47:41] the babies

[1:47:41] on the plane

[1:47:42] there

[1:47:43] it is

[1:47:45] you know

[1:47:46] the story

[1:47:46] of

[1:47:47] two

[1:47:48] two people

[1:47:49] who are

[1:47:50] were very close

[1:47:51] to children

[1:47:51] separated

[1:47:52] over the years

[1:47:52] by a fair amount

[1:47:54] of distance

[1:47:54] and

[1:47:55] it kind of

[1:47:57] follows their

[1:47:57] friendship

[1:47:58] and

[1:47:59] like

[1:48:01] the possibilities

[1:48:02] of love

[1:48:02] and it's

[1:48:03] just like

[1:48:04] so like

[1:48:05] heartbreaking

[1:48:05] at times

[1:48:06] and beautiful

[1:48:06] and

[1:48:08] there's

[1:48:08] this fucking

[1:48:09] monologue

[1:48:09] by John Magaro

[1:48:11] who plays

[1:48:12] Greta Lee's husband

[1:48:13] that just like

[1:48:14] crushed me

[1:48:15] it's so good

[1:48:16] Todd please

[1:48:17] add on to

[1:48:17] what I have to say

S4

[1:48:18] I mean

[1:48:19] I was going to

[1:48:20] recommend this too

[1:48:21] it's probably

[1:48:22] my favorite movie

[1:48:22] of the year

[1:48:23] so far

[1:48:23] it's just

[1:48:25] outrageous

[1:48:26] please go see it

[1:48:27] it's wonderful

Dan McCoy

[1:48:28] I would like to say

[1:48:29] just to disagree

[1:48:30] a little bit

[1:48:30] what I liked

[1:48:31] about the movie

[1:48:31] is it's not

[1:48:32] necessarily

[1:48:33] so much

[1:48:34] about

[1:48:34] lost love

[1:48:36] because I don't

[1:48:36] think that

[1:48:37] like

[1:48:37] there's any

[1:48:38] real indication

[1:48:39] that like

[1:48:39] she ever

[1:48:40] seriously

[1:48:41] is like

[1:48:42] leave my

[1:48:43] husband

[1:48:43] it's more

[1:48:44] like

[1:48:44] it's about

[1:48:45] reaching a point

[1:48:46] in your life

[1:48:46] when you're like

[1:48:47] there are other

[1:48:47] paths that I

[1:48:48] could have

[1:48:49] taken

[1:48:49] like sort of

[1:48:50] mourning for

[1:48:51] you know

[1:48:53] the myriad of

[1:48:54] possibilities

[1:48:54] that existed

[1:48:55] in an earlier

[1:48:56] point in your

[1:48:56] life

[1:48:56] more than

[1:48:57] like

[1:48:57] the love

[1:48:58] of a person

[1:48:58] and also

[1:48:59] that he

[1:49:00] represents

[1:49:01] you know

[1:49:01] for her

[1:49:02] as an

[1:49:03] immigrant

[1:49:03] like

[1:49:04] a cultural

[1:49:06] identity

[1:49:06] she didn't

[1:49:06] take as well

[1:49:07] so I

[1:49:09] yeah

[1:49:09] I really

[1:49:10] liked that

Stuart Wellington

[1:49:10] these are

[1:49:11] all true

[1:49:11] this is

[1:49:12] all correct

[1:49:12] I think

[1:49:13] there's a

[1:49:13] lot of

[1:49:13] layers

[1:49:14] and nuance

[1:49:14] to all

[1:49:15] the performances

[1:49:16] and the

[1:49:17] fucking

[1:49:17] score is

[1:49:18] incredible

[1:49:19] like it

[1:49:20] makes

[1:49:20] like it

[1:49:20] makes

[1:49:21] people

[1:49:22] skyping

[1:49:22] like a

[1:49:23] montage

[1:49:24] of people

[1:49:24] skyping

[1:49:25] super

[1:49:25] romantic

[1:49:25] yeah

[1:49:26] yeah

[1:49:28] that's

[1:49:28] great

[1:49:28] Elliot

Elliott Kalan

[1:49:29] I haven't

[1:49:30] seen it

[1:49:31] yet

[1:49:31] and I

[1:49:31] really

[1:49:31] want to

[1:49:31] I'm

[1:49:32] going to

[1:49:32] recommend

[1:49:32] a movie

[1:49:33] that I

[1:49:33] liked a lot

[1:49:34] and like

[1:49:35] Waterworld

[1:49:36] it's

[1:49:36] contemporary

[1:49:37] reviewers

[1:49:37] I think

[1:49:38] were unfair

[1:49:39] about it

[1:49:39] and didn't

[1:49:40] really quite

[1:49:40] get it

[1:49:40] and that

[1:49:41] is the

[1:49:41] movie

[1:49:41] Heartburn

[1:49:42] starring

[1:49:43] Meryl Streep

[1:49:43] and Jack

[1:49:43] Nicholson

[1:49:44] from 1986

[1:49:45] it's a

[1:49:46] Mike Nichols

[1:49:46] movie

[1:49:47] Nora Ephron

[1:49:47] wrote it

[1:49:48] based on

[1:49:48] her book

[1:49:49] that itself

[1:49:50] was based

[1:49:50] on the

[1:49:51] end of

[1:49:51] her

[1:49:51] marriage

[1:49:51] to

[1:49:52] Carl

[1:49:52] Bernstein

[1:49:53] of

[1:49:53] Woodward

[1:49:53] and

[1:49:53] Bernstein's

[1:49:54] fame

[1:49:54] you know

[1:49:54] the musical

[1:49:55] duo

[1:49:55] Woodward

[1:49:55] and Bernstein

[1:49:56] and

[1:49:57] there's

[1:49:58] a woman

[1:49:59] who's a

[1:50:01] writer

[1:50:02] she does

[1:50:02] cookbooks

[1:50:03] and she

[1:50:03] marries a

[1:50:04] newspaper

[1:50:05] kind of

[1:50:05] reporter

[1:50:05] columnist

[1:50:06] and

[1:50:07] it's not

[1:50:08] a plot

[1:50:08] heavy movie

[1:50:09] so much

[1:50:09] as it is

[1:50:10] tracking

[1:50:10] their

[1:50:10] relationship

[1:50:11] as they

[1:50:11] meet

[1:50:12] get married

[1:50:13] have a

[1:50:14] child

[1:50:14] and the

[1:50:15] stresses

[1:50:15] that puts

[1:50:16] on them

[1:50:16] and how

[1:50:17] their marriage

[1:50:17] disintegrates

[1:50:18] and

[1:50:19] I really

[1:50:20] liked a lot

[1:50:20] it's a movie

[1:50:21] that is

[1:50:22] somewhat

[1:50:22] uneven

[1:50:22] and it's

[1:50:23] not like

[1:50:23] a hilarious

[1:50:24] comedy

[1:50:24] and it's

[1:50:25] also not

[1:50:25] a tear

[1:50:26] jerking

[1:50:26] drama

[1:50:26] but it

[1:50:27] felt like

[1:50:27] a very

[1:50:27] kind of

[1:50:28] real stakes

[1:50:29] kind of

[1:50:30] natural

[1:50:30] film to

[1:50:31] me

[1:50:31] and I

[1:50:32] really

[1:50:32] like

[1:50:32] both

[1:50:33] Meryl Streep

[1:50:34] and Jack

[1:50:35] Nicholson

[1:50:35] are both

[1:50:35] playing

[1:50:35] characters

[1:50:36] who kind

[1:50:37] of want

[1:50:37] to believe

[1:50:37] that they

[1:50:38] are

[1:50:38] like the

[1:50:39] people

[1:50:39] who are

[1:50:40] playing

[1:50:40] them

[1:50:40] like

[1:50:40] Jack

[1:50:41] Nicholson

[1:50:41] is playing

[1:50:41] a man

[1:50:42] who thinks

[1:50:42] of himself

[1:50:42] as Jack

[1:50:43] Nicholson

[1:50:43] but is

[1:50:44] not

[1:50:44] and there's

[1:50:45] a scene

[1:50:45] where

[1:50:46] spoiler

[1:50:46] where Meryl

[1:50:47] Streep

[1:50:47] discovers

[1:50:47] that he

[1:50:48] has been

[1:50:48] cheating

[1:50:48] on her

[1:50:49] and has

[1:50:49] the evidence

[1:50:50] and his

[1:50:50] reaction

[1:50:51] is so

[1:50:52] defeated

[1:50:53] in a way

[1:50:54] I don't think

[1:50:54] I've ever

[1:50:54] seen Jack

[1:50:55] Nicholson

[1:50:55] play a part

[1:50:56] in a movie

[1:50:57] before

[1:50:57] and I was

[1:50:58] like

[1:50:58] oh this

[1:50:59] is a guy

[1:50:59] who thinks

[1:51:00] he's super

[1:51:00] cool

[1:51:01] and super

[1:51:02] tough

[1:51:02] but is not

[1:51:04] he thinks

[1:51:04] he's Jack

[1:51:05] Nicholson

[1:51:05] but he's not

[1:51:05] Jack Nicholson

[1:51:06] as opposed

[1:51:06] to like him

[1:51:07] in like

[1:51:07] the last

[1:51:07] detail

[1:51:08] or something

[1:51:08] where he's

[1:51:08] raging

[1:51:09] against the

[1:51:09] dying

[1:51:09] of the

[1:51:10] light

[1:51:10] you know

[1:51:10] and so

[1:51:11] I found

[1:51:11] their

[1:51:11] performances

[1:51:12] really

[1:51:13] kind of

[1:51:14] vulnerable

[1:51:15] and natural

[1:51:16] in a way

[1:51:16] that I'm

[1:51:16] not used

[1:51:17] to seeing

[1:51:17] from them

[1:51:18] in some

[1:51:18] ways

[1:51:18] and apparently

[1:51:19] when it came

[1:51:20] out everyone

[1:51:20] was like

[1:51:20] what is this

[1:51:21] movie

[1:51:22] is not

[1:51:22] good enough

[1:51:22] these actors

[1:51:23] are not

[1:51:23] good enough

[1:51:23] in it

[1:51:24] and I'm

[1:51:24] kind of

[1:51:24] surprised

[1:51:24] by that

[1:51:25] so that's

[1:51:26] Heartburn

[1:51:26] the title

[1:51:28] makes you think

[1:51:28] it's going to be

[1:51:28] an action movie

Dan McCoy

[1:51:29] but it's

[1:51:30] not

[1:51:30] I have

[1:51:32] never seen

[1:51:33] this one

[1:51:33] because in

[1:51:34] part

[1:51:34] as you

[1:51:35] mentioned

[1:51:36] it was

[1:51:36] kind of

[1:51:37] got mixed

[1:51:38] reviews

[1:51:38] at the time

[1:51:39] and

[1:51:40] I really

[1:51:41] wanted to

[1:51:41] see it

[1:51:42] ever since

[1:51:42] reading that

[1:51:42] great

[1:51:44] biography

Elliott Kalan

[1:51:45] I actually

[1:51:46] like it

[1:51:47] more than

[1:51:47] some other

[1:51:48] movies

[1:51:48] that I

[1:51:48] think

[1:51:49] are

[1:51:49] more

[1:51:49] well

[1:51:49] received

[1:51:50] but

[1:51:52] it was

[1:51:53] mentioned

[1:51:54] to me

[1:51:54] a long

[1:51:54] time

[1:51:54] ago

[1:51:55] by a

[1:51:55] friend

[1:51:55] of the

[1:51:55] show

[1:51:56] and I

[1:51:58] keep

[1:51:58] meaning

[1:51:58] to get

[1:51:58] around

[1:51:58] to it

[1:51:59] and watching

[1:51:59] it

[1:52:00] not being

[1:52:00] aware

[1:52:01] of its

[1:52:01] reputation

[1:52:01] I really

[1:52:02] enjoyed it

[1:52:03] so now

[1:52:04] that I've

[1:52:04] told you

[1:52:04] about it

[1:52:04] I guess

[1:52:05] erase that

[1:52:06] from your

[1:52:06] memory

[1:52:06] get a

[1:52:08] Men in

[1:52:08] Black

[1:52:08] Neuralizer

[1:52:09] and then

[1:52:09] go watch

[1:52:09] Heartburn

[1:52:10] I guess

[1:52:10] and don't

[1:52:11] get it

[1:52:11] confused

[1:52:11] with Heart

[1:52:12] Beeps

[1:52:12] the Paul

[1:52:13] Schrader

[1:52:13] film

Dan McCoy

[1:52:13] Did you

[1:52:18] have a

[1:52:18] backup

[1:52:19] Todd?

[1:52:20] A backup

[1:52:21] Todd?

[1:52:21] I'm ready

[1:52:22] to go

[1:52:23] wouldn't that

S4

[1:52:24] be great

[1:52:24] to have a

[1:52:25] backup

[1:52:25] Todd?

Elliott Kalan

[1:52:26] No it's

[1:52:27] like

[1:52:27] multiplicity

[1:52:27] it never

[1:52:28] works

[1:52:28] you think

[1:52:28] it's going

[1:52:29] to

[1:52:29] damn

S4

[1:52:30] Michael

[1:52:31] Keaton

[1:52:31] tried to

[1:52:32] tell us

[1:52:32] I'm going

[1:52:34] to break

[1:52:34] the rules

[1:52:35] into a

[1:52:35] mini

[1:52:35] recommendation

[1:52:36] and then

[1:52:36] a real

[1:52:37] my mini

[1:52:39] is sort

[1:52:39] of tied

[1:52:39] to Water

[1:52:40] World

[1:52:40] where

[1:52:40] if the

[1:52:41] precursor

[1:52:42] to Water

[1:52:42] World

[1:52:42] which is

[1:52:43] a highly

[1:52:44] hyped

[1:52:45] movie

[1:52:45] with a

[1:52:45] big star

[1:52:46] cost

[1:52:47] overruns

[1:52:48] and just

[1:52:48] complete

[1:52:49] chaos

[1:52:49] and ultimately

[1:52:51] being a

[1:52:51] movie that

[1:52:52] is

[1:52:53] tonally

[1:52:54] all over

[1:52:54] the place

[1:52:55] but has

[1:52:56] a lot

[1:52:56] of value

[1:52:57] and again

[1:52:58] if it was

[1:52:58] a little

[1:52:58] longer

[1:52:59] a little

[1:52:59] shorter

[1:52:59] it could

[1:53:00] have been

[1:53:00] really sweet

[1:53:01] 1993's

[1:53:03] Last Action

[1:53:03] Hero

[1:53:04] again

[1:53:04] it's weird

[1:53:05] to recommend

[1:53:07] because it

[1:53:07] is a mess

[1:53:09] but there's

[1:53:09] so much

[1:53:10] to like

[1:53:11] about it

[1:53:11] I remember

Elliott Kalan

[1:53:12] I missed that

[1:53:12] when it was

[1:53:13] in the theaters

[1:53:13] and it was

[1:53:14] everywhere

[1:53:14] it was so

[1:53:15] advertised

[1:53:15] everywhere

[1:53:15] and I finally

[1:53:16] saw it on HBO

[1:53:17] I was like

[1:53:17] oh this is a

[1:53:17] fun movie

[1:53:18] there's a lot

[1:53:19] of fun

[1:53:19] smart stuff

[1:53:19] in this

S4

[1:53:20] John McTiernan

[1:53:21] directed it

[1:53:22] director of

[1:53:23] Predator

[1:53:23] and Die Hard

[1:53:24] and Hunt for

[1:53:24] October

[1:53:25] he knows

[1:53:26] what he's

[1:53:26] doing

[1:53:26] but yeah

[1:53:27] this went

[1:53:28] a little

[1:53:29] goofy

[1:53:29] and there's

[1:53:31] tonal problems

[1:53:32] but it's one

[1:53:33] of the most

[1:53:33] self-aware

[1:53:33] movies ever

[1:53:34] it's

[1:53:35] Lamb Boone's

[1:53:36] Hollywood

[1:53:36] big time

[1:53:37] and Arnold Schwarzenegger

[1:53:38] movies

[1:53:39] to the point

[1:53:41] I mean

[1:53:41] there's a scene

[1:53:42] in the movie

[1:53:42] where in the movie

[1:53:43] movie

[1:53:44] they go into

[1:53:45] a video store

[1:53:45] and you see

[1:53:46] a stand-up

[1:53:47] for Terminator 2

[1:53:48] a cardboard cutout

[1:53:50] and it's Stallone

[1:53:51] as the Terminator

[1:53:52] and Terminator 2

[1:53:52] I mean

[1:53:54] that's great

[1:53:55] come on

Elliott Kalan

[1:53:57] that doesn't

[1:53:58] fully work

[1:53:59] and tonally

[1:53:59] it's all over

[1:54:00] if it was more

[1:54:00] a comedy

[1:54:01] it probably

[1:54:02] would be better

[1:54:03] than if they're

[1:54:03] trying to be

[1:54:04] both comedy

[1:54:04] and action

[1:54:04] but it's a

[1:54:06] special movie

[1:54:06] that plays off

[1:54:08] of Laurence Olivier's

[1:54:09] Hamlet

[1:54:10] at the end

[1:54:11] they're up against

[1:54:12] death from

[1:54:12] the seventh seal

[1:54:13] there's so much

[1:54:15] about movies

[1:54:16] as opposed to

[1:54:17] an action movie

[1:54:18] and I think

[1:54:18] a lot of people

[1:54:19] didn't recognize

[1:54:20] that at the time

Stuart Wellington

[1:54:20] Tom Noonan

[1:54:23] is one of the

[1:54:24] bad guys in it

[1:54:24] right?

[1:54:25] that's right

[1:54:26] and is

Elliott Kalan

[1:54:27] Charles Dance

[1:54:30] Charles Dance

[1:54:31] is so good

[1:54:32] and Anthony Quinn

[1:54:33] is in it

[1:54:33] right?

Stuart Wellington

[1:54:34] I think so

[1:54:35] and death

[1:54:36] from the seventh seal

[1:54:36] is that

[1:54:37] what's his name?

[1:54:39] is that

[1:54:40] William Sadler again?

[1:54:41] I think it's

[1:54:42] Ian McKellen

Dan McCoy

[1:54:43] yeah

[1:54:43] I don't think

[1:54:44] it's him

[1:54:44] reprising

[1:54:45] from Bill and Ted's

[1:54:46] bogus journey

[1:54:47] I mean

[1:54:49] I do like that movie

[1:54:51] but I agree

[1:54:51] that the tone

[1:54:52] the tone

[1:54:52] is my problem

[1:54:53] if there's

[1:54:54] dry comedy

[1:54:55] there's too much

[1:54:56] wet comedy

[1:54:57] in that movie

[1:54:58] for me

[1:54:58] when they're in

[1:55:00] the movie

[1:55:00] and he's pointing over

[1:55:01] and he's like

[1:55:01] that guy's got

[1:55:02] a cartoon cat

[1:55:03] I'm like

[1:55:03] that's not the same

[1:55:04] type of movie

[1:55:05] no

[1:55:06] but it's just

[1:55:06] in a movie world

[1:55:07] it's just a movie world

[1:55:08] I know

[1:55:08] it just gets

Elliott Kalan

[1:55:09] a little scattershot

[1:55:10] the first time

[1:55:11] when he goes in

[1:55:12] when they set

[1:55:12] when he is just

[1:55:14] Schwarzenegger's character

[1:55:16] in the movie

[1:55:16] is nonstop

[1:55:17] quipping

[1:55:18] and even the kid

[1:55:19] is like

[1:55:20] a little

[1:55:20] is like

[1:55:21] what

[1:55:21] like it's

[1:55:22] it's

[1:55:22] yeah

[1:55:23] that's a movie

[1:55:24] that I have a lot of

Dan McCoy

[1:55:25] I have a lot of

Elliott Kalan

[1:55:26] sentiment for

[1:55:28] but then as soon as they

[1:55:30] that it can't quite

[1:55:31] can't quite get its

[1:55:32] can't quite get its

[1:55:33] doesn't get its x-ray

[1:55:34] there's a funny

[1:55:35] there's a funny moment

[1:55:36] in there

[1:55:36] where she

[1:55:36] the teacher is showing them

[1:55:38] Hamlet

[1:55:40] and the teacher

[1:55:41] is played by

[1:55:42] Laurence Olivier's

[1:55:43] former wife

[1:55:44] Joan Plowright

[1:55:44] and she goes

[1:55:46] this stars Laurence Olivier

[1:55:47] who you may know

[1:55:47] from these commercials

[1:55:49] and Clash of the Titans

[1:55:51] and she says

[1:55:51] Clash of the Titans

[1:55:52] is such disgust

[1:55:53] dust disdain

S4

Elliott Kalan

[1:55:57] it's so funny

[1:55:58] and I always thought

[1:55:59] that was such a funny thing

[1:56:00] like that's what she thinks

[1:56:01] is gross

[1:56:01] not the commercials

[1:56:02] she thinks

[1:56:03] what was beneath him

S4

[1:56:04] my real recommendation

[1:56:06] is a movie called

[1:56:07] Reality

[1:56:08] it's on Max

[1:56:09] right now

[1:56:10] it stars

[1:56:12] what is her name

[1:56:14] Sydney Sweeney

[1:56:15] and

[1:56:17] I really didn't know

[1:56:18] anything about

[1:56:19] going into it

[1:56:20] which is

[1:56:21] the way I recommend it

[1:56:22] to see this

[1:56:23] it's about

[1:56:24] Reality Winner

[1:56:26] who

[1:56:26] it's played out

[1:56:29] in a really

[1:56:30] interesting way

[1:56:32] it's been

[1:56:33] directed by

[1:56:34] the person

[1:56:35] who staged

[1:56:36] the play

[1:56:37] that this is based on

[1:56:38] which

[1:56:38] and if you

[1:56:39] go even a little bit further

[1:56:41] the play

[1:56:42] and the movie

[1:56:42] is 100%

[1:56:44] based on

[1:56:44] the recordings

[1:56:45] the FBI

[1:56:46] recordings

[1:56:47] that were taken

[1:56:48] when she was

[1:56:48] taken into custody

[1:56:50] so knowing that

[1:56:52] the naturalism

[1:56:53] of the dialogue

[1:56:54] and how it all

[1:56:54] plays out

[1:56:55] at no point

[1:56:56] there's any narration

[1:56:57] at the beginning

[1:56:57] there's no title cards

[1:56:58] to tell you

[1:56:59] what's going on

[1:56:59] you're just thrown

[1:57:00] into this situation

[1:57:01] and it's

[1:57:02] extremely

[1:57:03] human

[1:57:04] how it plays out

[1:57:06] and

[1:57:07] I was riveted

[1:57:08] and again

[1:57:09] a lot to talk about

[1:57:10] at the end of this movie

[1:57:11] Reality

[1:57:12] now on

[1:57:14] Max

[1:57:14] Sounds good

[1:57:17] Okay

Dan McCoy

[1:57:17] Todd

[1:57:19] before we go

[1:57:20] is there anything

[1:57:21] you would like to plug

[1:57:22] or anything

[1:57:23] you would like to

[1:57:24] direct people towards

[1:57:25] or just

[1:57:26] you know

[1:57:26] a final thought

S4

[1:57:29] why not open it up

Dan McCoy

[1:57:31] you don't have to

S4

[1:57:32] movies are cool

[1:57:32] movies are terrific

[1:57:33] I will say

[1:57:35] and just to get real here

[1:57:36] turn my hat sideways

[1:57:38] and my chair sideways

[1:57:39] in a little bit

[1:57:39] you guys

[1:57:40] I mean

[1:57:41] you've gotten this

[1:57:43] in letters a lot

[1:57:44] and I'm going to

[1:57:45] just echo that sentiment

[1:57:46] that

[1:57:48] no matter what's going on

[1:57:49] in my world

[1:57:50] at the time

[1:57:52] maybe I'm up

[1:57:52] maybe I'm down

[1:57:53] especially when I'm down

[1:57:55] I know

[1:57:56] you know

[1:57:57] there's a new episode

[1:57:58] of the Flophouse

[1:57:59] and

[1:58:00] you guys

[1:58:01] we really

[1:58:02] all of

[1:58:03] I'm like

[1:58:04] all of the viewership

[1:58:05] listenership

[1:58:06] of the Flophouse

[1:58:07] is behind me

[1:58:07] we all want to thank you

[1:58:09] for putting on

[1:58:09] such a great show

[1:58:10] for all these years

[1:58:11] and it's an honor

[1:58:12] to be here

[1:58:13] and we're very grateful

[1:58:14] for what you do

Dan McCoy

[1:58:16] thank you

[1:58:17] but you tricked us

[1:58:18] you turned it around

[1:58:19] on us

[1:58:19] I did

[1:58:20] I was expecting you

Stuart Wellington

[1:58:22] to big time us

[1:58:23] yeah

[1:58:24] yeah

[1:58:25] well

Elliott Kalan

[1:58:25] Todd thanks so much

[1:58:26] for saying all that

[1:58:27] go see a Star War

[1:58:28] plug that

[1:58:29] how about that

[1:58:29] it's like if you want

[1:58:30] to support Todd

[1:58:31] to see any movie

[1:58:32] that comes out

[1:58:33] he's working on all of them

Dan McCoy

[1:58:34] hasn't been enough

[1:58:35] press about Star Wars

Elliott Kalan

[1:58:37] no

[1:58:38] it's a very obscure movie

Dan McCoy

[1:58:39] well

[1:58:40] thank you

[1:58:42] obviously to Todd

[1:58:44] our guest

[1:58:45] Todd Vaziri

[1:58:46] you can find him

[1:58:47] online

[1:58:48] including

[1:58:50] on a social network

[1:58:52] that I won't plug anymore

[1:58:53] because I don't like it

[1:58:54] but you can find him there

[1:58:56] look him up

[1:58:58] and

[1:58:58] thank you to our producer

[1:59:01] Alex Smith

[1:59:02] you might find him

[1:59:03] under Howell Dodd

[1:59:04] you might find him

[1:59:05] under Lydia Burrell

[1:59:06] he's a man of

[1:59:06] many names

[1:59:08] real chameleon

[1:59:09] thank you to our

[1:59:10] network Maximum Fun

[1:59:11] over at MaximumFun.org

[1:59:13] you can find a lot of

[1:59:14] other great podcasts

[1:59:15] check them out

[1:59:17] they're a co-op now

[1:59:18] if you like that kind of thing

[1:59:20] it's another reason

[1:59:21] to like the company

[1:59:22] if you like workers

[1:59:23] owning a piece of the company

[1:59:25] and you should

[1:59:25] then yeah

[1:59:26] and hey

[1:59:28] if you have a moment

[1:59:29] why not

[1:59:30] leave us

[1:59:31] a nice review

[1:59:32] over

[1:59:33] at iTunes

[1:59:34] it really does help us out

[1:59:36] I mentioned

[1:59:37] not liking another

[1:59:38] social network

[1:59:39] I will say that

[1:59:40] maybe if you want to see

[1:59:42] Flophouse News

[1:59:43] we should start

[1:59:45] plugging the Instagram

[1:59:45] more

[1:59:46] we got a great Instagram

[1:59:47] where I put up

[1:59:47] a bunch of reels

[1:59:48] and stuff

[1:59:49] I know that Meta

[1:59:50] is also not a great company

[1:59:51] but at least

[1:59:52] the environment

[1:59:54] of being on Instagram

[1:59:55] is more pleasant

[1:59:56] than being on other

[1:59:57] social networks

Elliott Kalan

[1:59:58] I hate to break it to you

[1:59:59] Apple's got

[2:00:00] plenty of issues too

[2:00:01] considering our iTunes

[2:00:02] there's no

[2:00:03] big tech companies

[2:00:04] that are good

Dan McCoy

[2:00:05] true true true

[2:00:07] so support

[2:00:08] little tech companies

[2:00:09] like us

[2:00:10] Housecat Productions

[2:00:11] a homegrown podcast

[2:00:14] with three no names

[2:00:15] with no tech

[2:00:16] yeah

[2:00:17] anyway

[2:00:18] speaking of no names

[2:00:19] for the Flophouse

[2:00:20] I've been Dan McCoy

Stuart Wellington

[2:00:21] I've been Stuart Wellington

[2:00:23] I'm Ellie Kalin

[2:00:25] and I'm Todd Vaziri

[2:00:26] okay

[2:00:28] bye

[2:00:28] that's a wrap

[2:00:36] yeah

[2:00:37] we did

Dan McCoy

[2:00:37] yep

[2:00:38] real sex

[2:00:39] that's a wrap

[2:00:40] now you know

[2:00:45] what I

[2:00:45] mostly associate

[2:00:47] a common phrase with

[2:00:49] the end of the

Elliott Kalan

[2:00:51] HBO

[2:00:53] documentary series

[2:00:54] docu-series

Dan McCoy

[2:00:56] yeah

[2:00:56] it's a docu-series

[2:00:57] okay

Stuart Wellington

[2:00:58] so you can tell people

[2:01:00] you're into documentaries

[2:01:01] about

[2:01:03] middle-aged

[2:01:05] sex clubs

[2:01:06] yeah

[2:01:07] alright

[2:01:09] maximum fun

S4

[2:01:12] a worker-owned network

[2:01:14] of artist-owned shows

[2:01:15] supported

[2:01:16] directly

[2:01:17] by you

Ep.#408 - Waterworld, with Todd Vaziri

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