FH Mini 94 - Outside the Actors Studio - Val Kilmer

Stuart Wellington

[0:00] Hey! Hello! Welcome to a Flophouse Mini. This is a mini episode of the Flophouse Podcast,

[0:09] a podcast where we normally watch a bad movie and then talk about it.

[0:13] On today's mini, we are stepping outside the actor's studio. That's right. I'm your host,

[0:20] Stuart Studio Wellington.

Dan McCoy

[0:22] Are we just sort of hanging out outside looking in?

Elliott Kalan

[0:24] I mean, outside the actor's studio is where I am 100% of the time. I'm never inside it.

Stuart Wellington

[0:28] That's true. Exactly, because we are the hosts of the Flophouse Podcast.

[0:32] Oh, sorry.

[0:32] I'm Stuart Studio Wellington. Joining me are...

Dan McCoy

[0:35] I'm Dan Actors McCoy.

Elliott Kalan

[0:39] I thought he was going to say Dan Dancefloor McCoy. And I'll say Elliot Electric Light Scalin.

Stuart Wellington

[0:44] Perfect. And we are three non-professional actors. Don't check my IMDb page.

[0:51] And we are going to be talking about the movies of an actor that we find interesting.

[0:57] That's what we do here in Outside the Actor's Studio. We are going to focus on a single actor whose work we find interesting.

[1:03] We're going to talk about some of their bigger works and some of their smaller works and then do a wrap-up.

[1:12] I was waiting for the joke after smaller works because I thought it was going to be a classic one, two, three disruption structure, but it didn't happen.

[1:18] The thing is, normally we are a comedy show. Today we are going to be deadly serious.

[1:24] Uh-oh. Watch out.

[1:26] I've planted a series of clues to bombs throughout the New York metropolitan area.

[1:30] This is going to be a game of cat and mouse.

[1:31] Oh, wow. There's no cat and mouse.

[1:34] It's a game of cat and slightly smaller cat.

[1:36] On today's inaugural episode of Outside the Actor's Studio, we're going to be talking about the movies of Val Kilmer.

[1:44] Val Kilmer is an actor who has been on my mind.

[1:48] I think I've talked about his movies with Dan recently because I've caught up on some of them.

[1:54] Specifically, I just recently watched the documentary that he made, Val.

[1:58] Oh, I still haven't seen that.

[1:59] Is filled with amazing footage from his entire life. It's wild.

[2:07] And it's kind of an interesting portrait of Val Kilmer, the man, and the artist.

[2:12] But we're not really going to be talking about him as a person, who is obviously, like all of us, complicated.

[2:17] We are going to be talking about movies he's in.

[2:20] Feel free to pull up IMDb, gentlemen.

[2:22] Doing it right now.

[2:23] I'm assuming you are both familiar with Val Kilmer.

Dan McCoy

[2:27] Yeah, I'm familiar with his work.

Elliott Kalan

[2:30] So to get started, we're going to talk about-

[2:32] All of his movies, from Batman Forever to The Saint.

[2:34] I've seen them somewhat.

[2:36] To the steam experiment.

Stuart Wellington

[2:38] Yeah, yeah.

[2:39] Well, let's talk about some general career stuff.

[2:42] According to IMDb, he has been in 79 movies.

[2:48] That includes voice work and whatever criteria IMDb considers to be a movie.

[2:54] And he's also been, I believe, you can correct me, he's been in three movies that we covered here at the Flophouse.

[3:01] The steam experiment?

[3:02] The steam experiment being one of them.

[3:04] The snowman.

[3:06] Oh, right.

[3:06] And Delgo.

[3:07] He was a voice in Delgo.

Elliott Kalan

[3:09] Delgo is a movie I frequently forget exists, and I'm not worse off for that.

[3:13] No.

Stuart Wellington

[3:15] You're able to walk down the street smiling as opposed to frowning.

[3:19] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[3:21] Weighed down with a shadow by the existence of Delgo and my knowledge of that fact.

Stuart Wellington

[3:26] Now, Val Kilmer's been in some movies that have been hits and some of it have been misses.

[3:30] Can you guess which movie he has been in has had the highest box office?

[3:36] This is a pretty easy one, I think.

Dan McCoy

[3:37] The highest box office.

[3:39] Is it his Batman movie?

[3:41] Whichever one.

Stuart Wellington

[3:42] It is not.

[3:43] Elliot, do you want to throw a guess?

[3:45] I would guess like Top Gun or Top Gun Maverick.

[3:49] But I don't know.

[3:49] Top Gun Maverick by a landslide.

[3:51] Okay.

[3:51] That's what I think.

[3:52] Right.

[3:52] $1.5 billion in the box office.

Dan McCoy

[3:55] I was confiding myself to ones where he stars, which is not.

Elliott Kalan

[4:00] Yep.

[4:00] That is not the criteria.

[4:01] He didn't say star and roll.

[4:01] Yeah, yeah.

[4:02] He didn't say that.

[4:02] Now, that is not adjusting for inflation, right?

Stuart Wellington

[4:06] That is not adjusting for inflation.

[4:07] This is exclusively what it says on IMDb.

Elliott Kalan

[4:09] If you're just for inflation, I think you'll find that the Ghost of the Darkness was by far

[4:14] his biggest hit.

[4:15] No, I'm just kidding.

[4:16] It wasn't.

Stuart Wellington

[4:17] His second place was Top Gun.

[4:20] And then after that, like just after that was Batman.

[4:23] Batman Forever.

[4:25] Forever.

[4:25] Is it Batman?

[4:26] Yeah, it's Batman.

[4:26] Batman Forever, which is ironic since he never played the part again.

[4:30] That's true.

[4:32] That was intended by the title, right?

[4:33] Yeah, that's a little sly joke.

[4:35] They could just tell, yeah.

[4:35] Yeah.

[4:36] On behalf.

[4:37] Okay, so I have picked out.

[4:39] I mean, Batman Forever is really just a kiss by the rose delivery system at this point,

[4:43] right?

[4:45] Kiss from a rose.

[4:46] From a rose?

[4:47] Yep.

[4:47] Yeah.

[4:48] I mean, I'm singing at karaoke.

Dan McCoy

[4:50] Yeah, the rose is giving you a kiss, but it might not be performing the kiss.

Stuart Wellington

[4:56] Yeah, and the kiss from a rose is happening either at or on the gray.

[5:02] Which I don't know if that's part of your body or a place.

[5:04] It's on a DVD of the gray.

Elliott Kalan

[5:06] So the kiss from a rose is much like the book A Kiss for a Little Bear, where the kiss

[5:11] is transferred from animal to animal, from little bear's grandmother to himself and back.

[5:15] That's the situation that we're talking about?

[5:17] Exactly.

[5:17] Okay.

Dan McCoy

[5:18] A common reference we're all familiar with.

Stuart Wellington

[5:19] I get kisses from little bears all the time.

Elliott Kalan

[5:21] I mean, it's a book about animals, and it's a song performed by an animal.

[5:25] His name is Seal, so.

[5:27] That's true.

Stuart Wellington

[5:29] Oh, wow.

[5:30] Okay.

[5:30] Elliot checks out.

[5:31] Probably a bear's natural movie.

[5:32] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[5:32] He showed up with the receipts this time.

[5:35] Okay.

[5:36] So I have selected five movies that have Val Kilmer in them that I think kind of cover different

[5:43] aspects of his career.

[5:44] Obviously, it's not going to cover everything.

[5:46] After we go over these five, you'll have a chance to talk about movies that I did not

[5:50] mention that you particularly liked.

[5:52] So, number one, the first one is also his first movie, Top Secret.

[5:58] Now, this was a huge one for me.

[5:59] Zucker Brothers, have you guys, do you have any general thoughts on the movie Top Secret?

Dan McCoy

[6:06] This was one that, I mean, I saw this as a kid, but I saw it later than Airplane and

[6:13] Naked Gun.

[6:14] They're more successful movies, box office-wise, and I was kind of like, wait, there's another

[6:23] one that no one talks about?

[6:25] It's a Top Secret, Dan.

[6:27] Yeah.

[6:28] I enjoyed it a lot.

[6:30] I remember laughing a lot as a kid.

[6:32] I saw it again recently, like not recently, recently, but maybe four or five years ago,

[6:38] there was like a rep screening.

[6:40] I'm like, oh, that'd be fun.

[6:41] I'll go see Top Secret and watching it, I'm just like, I remember all of these jokes.

[6:46] None of it's funny to me because I just remember all of these jokes.

[6:49] But at the time, it was very funny.

Stuart Wellington

[6:51] Yeah, I thought you were watching, you're like, I can't believe they made Omar Sharif the

[6:54] butt of a joke.

[6:57] No, I mean, I feel like as a, you know, as a budding comedy genius, Top Secret had a huge

[7:04] effect on me.

[7:05] And there's fucking jokes in that that I think about, like, I think about to this day,

[7:09] the fucking bit where he's, he has a dream where he shows up to school and he hasn't prepared

[7:15] for the test.

[7:16] And then he wakes up and he's being whipped and he goes, oh, thank God.

[7:20] Like, I think about that and laugh to myself all the time.

Elliott Kalan

[7:23] That was, I think, the joke that I, that I think about that, because it really kind of

[7:27] bothered me as a kid, is when the man has the magnifying glass up to his face and he pulls

[7:32] it away and his eye is still enormous.

[7:34] He's got this enormous fake eye that it wasn't, that the magnifying glass was making his eye

[7:38] look big, but that he's just, it has this hideous facial feature.

Dan McCoy

[7:42] Yeah, they have, like, I mean, not that they don't have amazing sight gags in the, in, like,

[7:49] Airplane and Naked Gun, but I feel like the sight gags are more sort of technically complex

[7:55] in Top Secret.

[7:56] Like, there's a whole scene.

Stuart Wellington

[7:57] Yeah, they've got that whole backwards scene and everything.

[7:58] Yeah, it's backwards.

[7:58] I think that's what the, the, the, the spyglass was from.

[8:01] That was the.

[8:02] Yeah, yeah, I believe it is.

[8:03] The end or opening of the scene.

[8:04] And the fucking underwater saloon fight is, like, it's crazy.

Elliott Kalan

[8:08] It's a real, I, it's, I never found it quite as funny as I did the Naked Gun movies, but

[8:14] it's a, it's more of a, yeah, there's parts of it that are real technical achievement in

[8:18] terms of a comedy movie in that way.

[8:20] Although it does involve a scene, right, where a man dressed as an animal is assaulted by a

[8:25] horny animal, which I'm never a fan of.

[8:28] Do not like this.

[8:28] Add it to your PowerPoint.

[8:30] Yeah.

[8:31] I did a PowerPoint once, years ago that I have never been able to perform again.

[8:34] I've never had the guts to do it again about my, about those scenes, those types of scenes

[8:38] and my dislike of them, you know?

[8:40] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[8:41] I think it's because.

[8:42] Because you said the word rape too many.

[8:44] You're like, wait a minute.

Elliott Kalan

[8:44] Yes, because it uses the word, it uses the phrase ape rape many times in the, in the

[8:48] presentation.

[8:48] I remember doing it once and as soon as I was done, as I was done, I was like, well, I

[8:52] can't believe I did that.

[8:53] I don't, I can't do that again.

[8:54] Very good.

Dan McCoy

[8:56] Yeah.

[8:57] And it has that scene where the, it looks like the train is leaving the station and it's

[9:02] that the platform is moving away.

[9:05] And that blew my little mind.

Stuart Wellington

[9:07] I mean, it's, I feel like we're picking out gags in a movie that is like 99% gags.

[9:13] Oh, it's all gags.

Elliott Kalan

[9:15] It's, I mean, there's nothing, there's nothing else really to it other than gags, right?

Stuart Wellington

[9:18] The, now, uh, I think, I mean, I think we're all at least, uh, we're all fans of this movie

[9:24] on various levels, but, um, how do you, how do you feel about Val Kilmer in it?

[9:29] This is like his first, this is his first movie and he's the star.

Dan McCoy

[9:33] Um, I, I mean, I think that, pardon me.

[9:37] I think that he's good in it.

[9:39] He's good in it.

[9:40] He's got a comic flair that to me, I don't want to, I don't know what you're going to

[9:45] talk about next or whatever, but like, I prefer him in real genius, uh, comedy wise.

[9:52] I think that the, that what makes airplane and, um, naked gun work so well is that it's

[9:59] actors being so serious and like Kilmer has like an impish flair that like is weird that

[10:08] that is what he comes out of the gate with.

[10:10] Because later on, I would argue that the problem with some of his performances is he becomes

[10:15] more humorless, but.

Elliott Kalan

[10:16] Well, that's, that's the thing I, I've, I like his performance in it for that reason

[10:20] that it shows that side of him that we don't otherwise get to see in too many other movies

[10:24] in which he could have very well been like a handsome comedy star, which at the time was

[10:30] not as common as it is now where even comedies have to star people who are incredibly handsome.

[10:35] They can't star people.

[10:35] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[10:35] It's like, have you been a professional wrestler before?

[10:38] I don't think you can star in this comedy.

[10:41] Can you bench 225?

[10:44] Cause if you can't, you can't star in this comedy.

Elliott Kalan

[10:45] Yeah.

[10:46] Oh, we're casting a comedy.

[10:47] Can I see your abs?

[10:48] Do you want to hear me tell some jokes?

[10:49] No, just lift the shirt.

[10:50] Let me see your abs.

[10:51] No, I'm sorry.

[10:51] They're not chiseled enough.

[10:52] Yeah.

[10:53] To be in a funny movie.

Dan McCoy

[10:54] I don't need like, I guess we don't need to take like a negative detour, but I will say

[11:00] that like, we're doing it.

[11:02] Like I like, you know, the various wrestling light comic stars to various degrees, like less

[11:12] so the rock these days, more so like, like Batista and, and, and Sina.

[11:17] Yeah.

[11:18] They're both great.

[11:18] They're good at what they do.

[11:20] But at the same time, I do think that there's a little bit still of the, like, um, that old,

[11:26] like, uh, what was it?

[11:29] Uh, Johnson quote about like a dog on its hind legs.

[11:33] Like harsh, harsh criticism.

[11:36] Well, no, I mean, well, it's just like, I do think that part of like the excitement for

[11:40] people in those roles, other than like Drax, who I think is like St. uh, Batista is amazing

[11:48] in that, but like some of the Sina stuff, I'm like, as much as I like him, I also feel like

[11:55] people are still giving him credit for being like a buff guy.

[11:59] Who's funny in the same way that like back in the day when everyone was like, oh man,

[12:04] Justin Timberlake is so funny on Saturday Night Live.

[12:06] I'm like, is he?

[12:07] He's, he's, he's better than you would expect.

[12:11] And that's why you like him.

[12:13] Yeah.

[12:13] Or the way that.

[12:14] I mean, Sina's way better than Timberlake, but.

Elliott Kalan

[12:16] I feel like you would get, you got that with Jon Hamm for a little bit too, where they're

[12:18] like, he's so handsome, but he's also can do comedy funnies.

[12:22] And the, I want to mention also that Samuel Johnson quote, Dan is a, is a, it's explicitly

[12:27] a criticism.

[12:27] It's a very sexist quote.

[12:28] It's a criticism of women preaching.

[12:30] Dan does not, does not.

[12:31] I don't endorse that.

[12:32] Stand by that half of it.

[12:34] But I think you're right that there is a.

Stuart Wellington

[12:35] Oh man, so many emails are half finished right now.

Elliott Kalan

[12:37] I think there is a little bit of a like, can you believe this guy is funny also?

[12:42] Can he do these other things?

[12:44] But I think there's also a, there's been a flattening of film comedy to the kind of comedy

[12:48] that someone with a professional wrestling background is good at, which is kind of

[12:51] bluster, you know?

[12:53] Yeah.

[12:54] Like, and I kind of miss the days when you would have like, when you, when there would

[12:58] be a comedy like, I don't know, like the jerk or something like that, where like, it was

[13:04] not a, it was, there were varying tones to it.

[13:06] And it was a guy who could also do quiet things as opposed to just loud guys getting into arguments

[13:11] and things like that, which I feel like is a lot of comedy now.

[13:13] But anyway, that's just me being an old man, not liking new stuff.

Dan McCoy

[13:17] Yeah, let's take a real old man turn.

Elliott Kalan

[13:18] I mean, the fact is, the fact is, if you're going to ask me what kind of comedy I want

[13:21] to see, I'm going to be like, uh, horse feathers.

[13:23] And they do not make comedies like horse feathers anymore.

[13:26] You couldn't make a comedy like that these days.

[13:28] You know why?

[13:29] They're not bankable.

[13:30] You could not get enough people to the theater to see it.

[13:33] Yeah.

[13:35] Okay.

[13:35] Just try, just try to make a comedy like Sherlock Jr.

[13:38] These days.

[13:39] You couldn't do it.

[13:40] People demand a soundtrack with talking in their movies.

[13:42] Even the artist had a little bit of talking.

Stuart Wellington

[13:46] Was it the dog?

[13:47] Was the dog talking?

[13:48] I don't remember.

[13:49] I didn't see the artist.

[13:49] Yeah.

[13:50] The dog was telling you to take a bite out of crime.

Elliott Kalan

[13:52] Yeah.

[13:52] The dog was telling you to stalk young couples as they exited Studio 54.

[13:59] Wow.

[14:00] That's a son of Sam joke.

Dan McCoy

[14:01] Yeah.

[14:01] It took me a while, but I got there.

[14:02] Interesting.

[14:03] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[14:04] Okay.

[14:05] Should I mention more movies?

[14:06] Should I ironically state more types of movies that you can't make anymore?

[14:10] You can't make movies starring Cary Grant anymore.

[14:12] Just try it.

[14:13] Go out and try to make a Cary Grant movie.

[14:14] You can't even make a movie like that anymore because he's been dead for years.

Stuart Wellington

[14:17] And the studios agreed not to do a bunch of AI CG bullshit with Cary Grant, right?

Elliott Kalan

[14:23] Actually, you know what?

[14:24] They should, now that I think about it, that is the one kind of movie you probably can make nowadays.

[14:27] It's a movie with a dead celebrity starring in it.

Stuart Wellington

[14:29] I mean, the fucking actor is way easier to deal with than these assholes that are always striking, right?

Elliott Kalan

[14:34] Yeah.

[14:34] You try to, just try to make an action movie starring Jello Biafra these days.

[14:38] You can't do it because he has no interest in it.

[14:41] You just can't make a movie like that these days.

[14:43] Just try it.

[14:44] Go talk to him about it.

[14:44] He doesn't want to do it.

Stuart Wellington

[14:46] And then when he does agree, you're like, what did I just give myself a do?

[14:51] This is going to be bad.

[14:53] Okay.

[14:54] The next movie on my little list is one he does not star in.

[15:00] We're talking Michael Mann's Heat.

[15:03] Heat, everybody.

[15:04] It's a good movie.

Elliott Kalan

[15:04] I just re-watched that last year.

[15:07] Oh, no.

[15:07] It was earlier this year.

[15:07] Yeah.

[15:08] That movie holds up.

[15:09] I will say this, though.

[15:11] Okay.

[15:11] What were you going to say?

Stuart Wellington

[15:12] I was just going to say, having re-watched it now, when I watched it as, what, like a teenager?

[15:18] It didn't quite resonate with me.

[15:21] It felt a little bit too long.

[15:23] Yada, yada.

[15:24] But as a 40-plus-year-old man, I'm like, oh, I get it.

[15:28] This rules.

Elliott Kalan

[15:28] Yeah.

[15:29] It really, it's a really good movie.

[15:31] There is a part of it, though, where like Robert De Niro is set up with kind of an easy choice to make, which is whether to be a criminal who dies or go off with a beautiful woman and live happily forever.

[15:41] And it is, I guess it's a portrait of male obsession, you know, that he can't make that choice so easily.

[15:46] That Michael Mann stuff.

[15:46] That's that Michael Mann stuff.

[15:48] It is that Michael Mann stuff.

Dan McCoy

[15:48] I got to say, though, like, I'm the dissenter.

[15:51] I mean, I like Heat.

[15:52] Don't get me wrong.

[15:52] The dissenter.

[15:53] Starring Dan McCoy.

[15:55] I feel like if you say anything bad about Heat, the internet is going to murder you.

[16:00] But I like it.

[16:01] Well, it's necessary for life.

[16:02] I like it.

[16:04] But I rewatched it again at a rep screening.

[16:07] Man, I do have time to burn.

[16:09] Ellie, that's right.

[16:10] I watched it recently, and I'm like, I don't know.

[16:14] Like, with a lot of these, like, really guy's guy movies, I'm just like, this is too guy-y for me.

[16:20] Like, I know that the movie, I don't think, endorses it.

Elliott Kalan

[16:23] No, I think the movie is a critique of that.

[16:25] It's an understanding critique of it.

[16:27] It sympathizes with it, but critiques it, I think.

Dan McCoy

[16:28] Yeah.

[16:29] But I just, I find it tiring after a while, I think.

Elliott Kalan

[16:33] I will say, to be honest, that was kind of the impression I had when I finally got to watch Sorcerer.

[16:38] Where I was like, oh, this is just guys doing guys-guys stuff in a hard situation.

[16:44] And I love Wages of Fear.

[16:45] And watching Sorcerer, I was like, hmm, I'm kind of done with these guys.

[16:49] Like, I don't like any of them.

[16:50] I don't really care if they finish this thing.

[16:52] But with Heat, maybe it's because Heat involves, like, you see a little bit the people who are affected by this behavior.

[16:59] You know, just a little bit.

[17:01] And Al Pacino gives an amazing performance as a character who is probably on drugs the entire movie.

[17:06] Mm-hmm.

[17:07] You know?

[17:08] It's one of the rare, it's, I feel like this is one of those movies, this incentive of a woman are the ones where, like, people were like, Al Pacino, you're great when you go all out all the time.

[17:17] And he's like, that's what I'll do.

[17:18] I'll only get bigger from now on.

Stuart Wellington

[17:22] I think you forgot Devil's Advocate.

[17:25] Oh, you're right.

[17:25] I did forget Devil's Advocate.

[17:26] You're right.

[17:27] Devil's Advocate is, like, the biggest performance I think I've ever seen a human deliver.

[17:30] I mean, he was literally playing the devil in that movie.

[17:33] I feel like, I love Keanu Reeves, but watching Keanu Reeves in that movie, I'm like, oh, I'm sorry, man.

[17:39] You didn't come to the, you didn't bring the right equipment.

[17:42] No.

Elliott Kalan

[17:42] But Val Kilmer and Heat, I think it's, I think that's a good, and this is the same year, I'm looking at IMDb, the same year he starred as Batman, and I feel like he's so much better used in Heat than he is in Batman.

[17:53] Not because he can't carry a movie, but because he doesn't have to carry it, so he can kind of do what he needs to with the role.

Stuart Wellington

[17:59] And he, and he, like, he delivers a performance that is not as big as Pacino.

[18:06] Yes, yes.

[18:07] And he, I feel like he matches De Niro's kind of, like, quiet male sadness.

Dan McCoy

[18:13] Yeah, I can say that.

[18:14] Just one year before his defining role in The Island of Dr. Moreau.

[18:18] Oh, baby.

Elliott Kalan

[18:20] I hope he gets to talk about it.

[18:21] The Island of Dr. Moreau is a, that is a self-inflicted myth.

[18:25] He literally said, I don't want to be the star of this movie anymore, and swapped roles.

[18:30] You know, that's a, that could have been a very different movie, and he could have had a different, but he's, I don't know, that one scene in The Island of Dr. Moreau,

[18:37] where he's impersonating Marlon Brando, is very funny.

[18:41] It's a very funny scene.

[18:42] And there's something about it that, I know that's not the movie we're supposed to be talking about now,

[18:45] but there's something about it where it's like, he is play-acting, it's like a child putting on his dad's clothes.

[18:50] He's play-acting as someone whose work clearly means a lot to him.

[18:53] And it adds this metatextual aspect to it that The Island of Dr. Moreau otherwise does not have at all.

Dan McCoy

[19:00] Guys, his last name in Heat is Shahir-less.

[19:03] Shahir-less, yeah, Shahir-less, yeah.

[19:05] Which seems like a very specific, I just, that's gotta be.

Stuart Wellington

[19:08] You think it's an anagram?

[19:10] Yeah, let's put it up on the board and figure this out.

[19:13] And I think, I mean, I haven't read Heat 2 yet, but I think he's like one of the only surviving characters from the first movie.

[19:22] And I guess he's a pivotal character in it.

[19:25] And what young, what young hot star will be cast as this character?

[19:30] Okay.

[19:32] Ansel Elgort.

[19:33] So moving on.

[19:34] You heard it here first, that's my guess.

[19:36] Ooh, maybe.

[19:38] Moving on, we're gonna talk about another big one.

[19:41] This is another, this is a starring Val Kilmer performance.

[19:44] Oliver Stone's The Doors.

[19:46] I've never actually seen The Doors.

Elliott Kalan

[19:48] Wow.

[19:48] Neither have I.

[19:49] I've never been that interested enough in the subject or the director.

[19:53] I've never really loved Oliver Stone's movies.

Dan McCoy

[19:55] I think you've put your finger correctly.

[19:57] I mean, like, I like some of Oliver Stone's movies.

[19:59] But there has to be something else enticing me.

[20:03] And if the topic is this band that I don't go on.

[20:10] I hate, like some people do, but I don't find very interesting.

[20:14] Like, I'm like, every once in a while they hear a Doors song,

[20:16] I'm like, that's an okay song.

[20:18] Yeah, the song's all right.

Stuart Wellington

[20:20] It is one of those things where, this is a movie I haven't watched,

[20:23] I think, since it came out on, like, VHS or something.

[20:28] And I remember mainly being interested in it for scenes of drug use and nudity.

[20:35] Which...

[20:36] You're like, someday that'll be me.

Elliott Kalan

[20:37] Movie delivers.

[20:38] Yeah, yeah.

[20:38] Wait, someday you'll be interested in drug use and nudity, Dan?

Dan McCoy

[20:41] No, no, no.

[20:42] Someday.

[20:42] That's Stuart.

[20:43] Yeah, yeah.

[20:43] He's saying, someday I'll be nude and...

[20:46] On drugs.

Stuart Wellington

[20:48] Weirdly enough, not that long after watching the Doors.

Dan McCoy

[20:52] Yeah, I mean, well, one half of those things you could do at any time if you wanted to.

[20:56] I mean...

[20:56] Which half is that?

[20:58] Good question.

[20:58] Nudity.

[20:59] I mean, well, I guess you can do it at any time.

[21:01] I'm just saying that you don't have to, like,

[21:03] wait to a certain point in your life to have access to nudity.

[21:06] I mean, that's true.

Elliott Kalan

[21:06] To be honest, the younger you are, the more nudity you're probably going to be.

[21:08] Yeah, exactly.

[21:09] When you're, like, a little kid or a baby, you can just be nude all the time.

[21:12] Yeah.

[21:12] Are you working on some kind of riddle?

[21:15] What is nude all the time?

[21:17] What's nude all the time in the morning, not nude that much in the afternoon,

[21:21] and then never nude, hopefully, in the evening?

[21:25] That's me body shaming the elderly.

Stuart Wellington

[21:27] Yeah.

[21:28] So, yeah, I think we're all in agreement.

[21:30] I kind of put this on here because...

Elliott Kalan

[21:31] Wait, no, the Sphinx's answer is Michael Mann.

[21:33] Oh, interesting.

[21:35] Yeah.

[21:35] That's great.

[21:35] That's the answer to the riddle.

[21:36] Not just man, but Michael Mann.

Stuart Wellington

[21:38] I feel like this movie, part of it is that, like, I feel like Val Kilmer as Jim Morrison

[21:44] has become swapped a lot in, like, pop culture, where if you put up an image of Val Kilmer

[21:50] as Jim Morrison, people are like, that's Jim Morrison, the original.

[21:53] Yeah.

[21:54] To the point that, like, I wouldn't be surprised if there's people who have gotten Jim Morrison

[21:57] tattoos that are Val Kilmer's face, the same way that people have gotten Malcolm X tattoos

[22:01] and it's Denzel Washington.

Dan McCoy

[22:02] Yeah.

[22:03] Yeah.

[22:03] I mean, I do remember The Doors being very popular when it came out, like, and, you know,

[22:09] I was, like, a teen, and, like, these other people are seeing The Doors and talking about

[22:12] The Doors, so I'm like, even then, I was like, what is it about a movie about The Doors

[22:17] that is, like, capturing the youth right now?

[22:22] Like, this seems like such a throwback.

[22:25] Like, in retrospect, it feels like, you know, more sort of just, like, deification of, like,

[22:31] 60s, you know, and, like, you know, exalting 60s culture that we grew up with, you know?

[22:38] Yeah.

[22:38] Like, even the stuff that's, like, okay, I guess this is, it's not as deep as you think, guys.

Elliott Kalan

[22:43] I guess it's a modern, well, I also think Jim Morrison's place in culture has sunk quite

[22:48] a bit.

[22:49] I remember when we were young, I would hear about him all the time, there were all these conspiracies

[22:52] that he faked his death and he was living in Paris as a poet or things like that, and you'd

[22:56] hear about people going to his grave and having sex on it or leaving, you know, liquor there

[23:01] or something.

[23:01] And I feel like nobody talks about Jim Morrison anymore.

[23:05] The same way that I don't hear people talk about Janis Joplin anymore.

[23:07] And I feel like when I was young, I heard about the legend of Janis Joplin all the time.

[23:11] Maybe just because my dad is a real classic rock guy.

[23:13] But I feel like these are cultural signifiers that were very big when our parents' generation

[23:18] was still the leader in culture in a big way.

[23:21] Yeah.

[23:22] And that's not the case anymore.

[23:23] So, like, nobody's talking about.

Dan McCoy

[23:25] Now we hear about the crap we grew up with.

Elliott Kalan

[23:28] Instead of talking about Jim Morrison and Janis Joplin and Jimi Hendrix, you hear about Kurt

[23:32] Cobain, basically.

[23:32] Yeah.

[23:33] Like, that's, you know, when it comes to dead young rock stars.

Stuart Wellington

[23:35] We're talking about young rock stars, people who died before they were able to sour in the

[23:40] public eye.

[23:41] Yeah.

[23:43] I remember, so with this movie, I feel like it, if, I don't remember it having a ton of,

[23:49] like, tight narrative.

[23:51] But Val Kilmer, I feel like, is good in it.

[23:55] It's his chance to be, like, actor with a capital A.

[24:00] And he throws himself in it.

[24:02] But, like, it doesn't make it necessarily a fun watch.

Elliott Kalan

[24:05] Yeah.

[24:06] And the thing I want to mention is unrelated to the movie, which is just that, so my dad was

[24:10] a big rock and roll guy when he was young.

[24:12] And he was in a rock band in high school.

[24:14] And my grandfather was part owner of a company that made metal storm doors.

[24:19] Uh-huh.

[24:20] And when the Doors were a big band, my dad told me, his father went to him and goes,

[24:24] if I told you to name your band The Doors, you would have said I was crazy.

[24:28] You would have said it was a terrible idea.

[24:29] But now you're listening to a band called The Doors.

[24:31] And it seems like such a funny thing for a dad to say.

[24:35] Good point, I guess.

[24:36] If I told you to name a band after what I make professionally, you would say, no way.

[24:41] But look, they're popular.

Stuart Wellington

[24:43] Man, that is the, that's like the platonic ideal of a dad joke.

[24:50] Okay, so let's move on.

[24:52] I think we've, we've closed all the doors.

[24:56] Let's talk, this is, this is a personal favorite of mine.

[24:58] This is nothing but hunks with mustaches.

[25:00] That's right.

[25:02] Tombstone.

[25:02] Yeah.

[25:03] Tombstone the movie.

[25:04] Not the pizza.

[25:05] That's a different thing.

[25:07] Val Kilmer had nothing to do with the Tombstone pizza that I know of.

[25:11] Guys, have you ever seen the movie Tombstone?

Dan McCoy

[25:14] I have.

[25:14] When I was a, so when I was younger, I lived and died by like the reviews I would read a lot more.

[25:21] Particularly like Ebert's reviews.

[25:24] Who are your guys?

[25:25] Yeah, we knew you were a big thumbhead.

[25:26] You loved Rob Ebert.

[25:27] I was a thumbhead.

[25:28] And I, you know, I think that Tombstone got kind of.

Elliott Kalan

[25:31] You weren't chocolate malted.

[25:33] That's what they call Leonard Maltin fans.

[25:34] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[25:35] It was sort of a middling review.

[25:37] And I remember that in general, like, like, even though it was a big hit,

[25:41] it didn't get like the greatest reviews.

[25:43] So I didn't watch at the time.

[25:45] And then I kept hearing like, oh, this is so much fun.

[25:48] This movie is so much fun.

[25:48] And I watched it.

[25:49] And lo and behold, it is a lot of fun.

[25:52] And mostly Val Kilmer is like definitely the highlight of that movie.

[25:58] He's the guy who, he's the paprika character.

[26:01] He comes in and he adds some spice.

[26:03] Yeah, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[26:04] That's a little bit of, a little bit of heat.

Dan McCoy

[26:06] Sorry, I moved away from the microphone.

[26:07] Alex is going to scold me for that.

Stuart Wellington

[26:08] It's okay.

[26:09] Yeah, I mean, there's.

[26:11] Uh, man, you got, you got Kurt Russell.

[26:14] You got Sam Elliott.

[26:15] You got Bill Paxton.

Dan McCoy

[26:16] You got Powers Booth.

Stuart Wellington

[26:18] What?

[26:18] You got Michael Biehn.

[26:19] All of them.

[26:20] Um, so many hunks with mustache.

[26:23] They should have called this manstone.

[26:25] It kind of feels like.

Dan McCoy

[26:28] That sounds like, that sounds like gay porn in the Flintstones world.

Stuart Wellington

[26:37] Marty, what are you doing with this?

[26:41] Uh, Elliot, have you ever seen Tombstone?

Elliott Kalan

[26:44] Uh, yeah, I haven't seen it in a long time and I should rewatch it.

[26:47] Uh, I remember seeing it as a teenager and enjoying it.

[26:50] Uh, and I'd like to watch it again and see if I have the same issue with it that I have with a lot of westerns from the 80s and 90s.

[26:56] Which is, sometimes they kind of feel the need to be the western.

[27:01] Like it had, like, because they were making so few of them at the time.

[27:03] It feels like it needs to be all things that a western can be.

[27:07] Like I recently, I had never seen Silverado and I watched that recently.

[27:10] And I was like, I'm like, there's six or seven different movies going on in here and they do not fit together.

[27:15] And, but it feels like he felt like he had to make every western he could possibly make because he's never going to get to make one again.

[27:20] But, uh.

Stuart Wellington

[27:21] Yeah, and like they have to, like, reestablish the language again.

Elliott Kalan

[27:25] Yes, yeah, they have to, exactly.

[27:27] There's, so much of it felt like, uh, I'm introducing an audience to westerns who either haven't seen them in a while or have never seen them.

[27:33] When, I love to watch, I also watched a movie I'm going to recommend at some point in the future, Samuel Fuller's 40 Guns, which is just a fun western.

[27:41] Like, I really enjoy westerns where it's just like, you know what's going on, let's do a western story.

[27:45] Uh, so I'm going to have to rewatch him, so I haven't seen it in a while, but I remember Val Kilmer, yeah, it's super fun in it.

[27:50] He gets to meet Doc Holliday, which is the most fun character in the tombs, in that story, because he's like, he's, he's the, he's the bad boy, he's dying, like all the, he's a romantic figure.

[28:01] He's an alcoholic.

[28:02] Yeah, he's a tragic, romantic, fun figure.

Stuart Wellington

[28:04] He is so good in the movie, where like, anytime he's on screen, you're like, I should also want to look at everyone else, but I just want to look at him.

[28:12] Yeah.

[28:13] Yeah.

[28:14] And Michael Biehn plays a great, uh, bad guy foil for him, that also, at no point is there ever a moment when he's going to beat Val Kilmer.

[28:22] No, never going to, you know it's not going to happen.

[28:24] Yeah.

[28:24] No.

[28:24] It's great.

Dan McCoy

[28:25] The original Beantown bad boy.

[28:29] Any town he's in is Beantown.

[28:31] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[28:33] Uh, okay, and then we have one more before our break.

[28:36] This is, uh, later career Val Kilmer, uh, but one that is, uh, still pretty near to my heart, uh, talking about Shane Black's Kiss Kiss Bang Bang.

[28:46] Have you ever seen this movie, guys?

Elliott Kalan

[28:48] I literally just the other day said to myself, oh yeah, I never got around to seeing Kiss Kiss Bang Bang.

[28:53] I should watch that sometime.

[28:53] Really?

[28:54] Yeah.

[28:55] That surprises me.

[28:56] I mean, I guess not that surprised.

[28:57] It's hit or miss with me and, you know, and I, I kind of, I always keep lists of movies that I want to see so I don't forget them and then I forget those lists and I just end up wandering around in the halls of cinema, whichever way life leads me.

[29:10] So I'll watch it.

[29:11] Maybe I'll watch it next.

[29:12] Did you see The Nice Guys?

[29:14] No, that's another one where I was thinking recently.

Dan McCoy

[29:16] I'm like, oh, I never ever seen The Nice Guys too.

[29:17] I should see that.

[29:18] Well, I was going to say, I agree that, I mean, like Shane Black's stuff, I agree is hit or miss.

[29:25] I think that most of my fondness for him is based on Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and The Nice Guys.

[29:30] I feel like that is the best iteration of his thing and it's a shame that those are like two of his least successful movies.

[29:39] But, but Kiss Kiss Bang Bang is, is, I don't know.

[29:43] I mean, maybe you would find it a little too clever knowing your.

[29:48] I like clever stuff.

[29:50] There's a smarmyness to it.

[29:52] You get annoyed at things that are sort of ostentatiously clever sometimes.

[29:55] And there's like a, there's a lot of like, it's all based on like quips back and forth.

[30:02] But.

Elliott Kalan

[30:02] It's a lot of arched eyebrows.

[30:04] I think I like it.

[30:04] I like it a lot.

[30:05] If the movie can set, just being personally for myself, the movie can set a tone of this is not supposed to, this is not supposed to be realistic.

[30:12] This is heightened.

[30:13] It's like, I like Tarantino stuff and his stuff is, it's all, you know, it's, it's not exactly the same kind of smug smarmy quips, but it's like, you go into it being like, well, I know this is not going to be reality that I'm, that I'm living in, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[30:25] And it, and it's very much like both this and The Nice Guys are very much living in a like paperback detective story.

[30:33] Yeah.

[30:34] World where that like smarminess is part of the charm.

Elliott Kalan

[30:37] Okay.

[30:37] Well, maybe that'll be the next mini is me reporting back on these two movies if I like them or not.

Stuart Wellington

[30:42] And I think at the time when this movie came out, which was what, 2000, I want to say 2005.

Elliott Kalan

[30:47] 2005.

[30:47] Exactly right.

[30:48] According to IMDb.

Stuart Wellington

[30:49] 2005.

[30:51] Like Downey Jr. hadn't, hadn't been Iron Man yet, right?

[30:56] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[30:56] No, this is like really like, this was what came back.

[30:58] And I'm like, I admit that like everyone talked about how talented he was like early in his career.

[31:04] And I was never like the biggest fan.

[31:06] And then when this came out, like, and sort of like older, wiser, ready to work, Downey Jr.

[31:12] Came out.

[31:12] Like he, I think he's so good in this movie that I got on board the train right away, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[31:17] This was the, was this, oh, sorry.

[31:19] What were you going to say?

[31:20] I was just going to say, and Val Kilmer was also like his starred kind of dipped a bit.

[31:25] And, but he, he provides a lot of kind of grounding to the movie.

[31:29] Whereas like with Downey Jr., he is the like kind of wacky, like antagonist who was, or a protagonist who was also not very good at anything.

[31:39] And, and Val Kilmer provides, like, I don't know.

[31:42] There's something about like the weight of this other star kind of like keeping everything together.

Elliott Kalan

[31:48] Yeah.

[31:48] I kind of missed that about Robert Downey Jr.

[31:50] That I feel like the, the, the last roles I've seen him in for the past, I don't know, since Iron Man.

[31:56] He's playing like, like, like cocky, competent, you know, snarky, like he's not a nice guy, but you know, he's the hero, that kind of stuff.

[32:05] And I kind of miss.

Dan McCoy

[32:05] Yeah, just like in Oppenheimer, where he's the hero of the whole thing.

[32:08] Yeah, exactly.

Elliott Kalan

[32:09] Well, in Oppenheimer, he's, he's a, he's a paper thin villain, you know.

[32:13] But in a, I kind of miss when he would play weird parts, like in Scanner Darkly, where his character is, is such a, like.

[32:19] I mean, that movie's great.

[32:21] Such an unpleasantly off the wall character.

[32:22] And I'm like, oh, I love this performance so much.

[32:24] He's so good in it.

Stuart Wellington

[32:25] Yeah.

[32:25] Or something like, what, like Home for the Holidays, where he's.

[32:29] Oh, he's so good in that.

[32:29] Yeah, he's great in it.

[32:30] And like, clearly, he like, not doing well in life.

[32:34] Yeah.

[32:35] But it works in the context of the movie.

[32:38] Okay, I think this is a, Val Kilmer in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang.

[32:42] I think he's great.

[32:44] So good, we mostly talked about Robert Denny Jr.

[32:47] Well, that's what happens outside the actor's studio.

[32:51] Now, let's have a word from our sponsor.

Dan McCoy

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Stuart Wellington

[34:13] Guys, doing a review of an actor's work kind of reminds me that time is fleeting and that it's a great idea to try and capture what you can so you can remember those special moments.

[34:25] And a perfect way to do that is with an Aura digital picture frame, which Wirecutter describes as the best digital photo frame.

[34:33] And it's easy to see why.

[34:34] You can upload a whole bunch of your favorite pictures of your family and relive all those happy moments.

[34:40] If you're giving it as a gift, you can even load up a personal message to play as soon as they take it out of the box so they get that moment of your voice and they're like, this person loves me.

Dan McCoy

[34:50] And if you're giving it as a gift, I didn't even think about this before, but one thing you can do is like if you're giving it to like family and you have access to the Aura photos, like as you get new photos, you can load in photos that they can see of like what you're up to these days.

[35:05] So it's not the same old photos all the time.

Stuart Wellington

[35:07] That's great.

[35:07] And you can also sneak in goofs if you want.

[35:11] A few goofs.

[35:12] Yeah.

[35:12] I mean, just as a goof.

Elliott Kalan

[35:13] I was going to say, it's like a modern day Dorian Gray portrait that ages with you as you put the new photos in.

Stuart Wellington

[35:19] See, that's why they pay you the big bucks.

[35:22] So why don't you give the best gift ever this holiday season?

[35:24] Visit AuraFrames.com today and get $30 off their best-selling frames with the code FLOP.

[35:33] These frames sell out quickly though, so get yours before they're gone.

[35:37] That's A-U-R-A frames.com with the promo code FLOP.

[35:43] Terms and conditions apply.

Elliott Kalan

[35:45] They certainly do.

[35:46] Hey, speaking of terms and conditions, I've got some conditions under which if you follow the right terms, you'll be able to see the Flophouse in person, in your life.

[35:56] We've got some Flophouse tour dates coming up.

[35:58] Very exciting.

[35:59] The Flophouse Errors tour, the cultural event of 2024 probably, will be happening over four nights in 2024.

[36:07] That's in January.

[36:08] Wednesday, January 24th, we'll be in Vancouver, Canada, at the Rio Theater, and we're going to talk about Cobra.

[36:15] Crime is the disease.

[36:17] Cobra is the cure.

[36:18] We're going to talk about it.

[36:19] Then the next night, Thursday, January 25th, we're going to be in Portland, Oregon, at the Aladdin Theater.

[36:24] We're going to talk about Cool as Ice.

[36:26] Remember when Vanilla Ice was a movie star?

[36:29] Once, this was it, and we're going to talk about it.

[36:32] Don't say Ninja Turtles 2.

[36:34] He was not a star in that.

[36:35] There's a glorified cameo.

[36:36] Dan, I knew you were going to bring it up.

[36:37] Don't bring it up.

[36:38] I was just thinking about it, but then you thought about it.

Stuart Wellington

[36:39] I was thinking about the cinematographer from Schindler's List.

Elliott Kalan

[36:42] Janusz Kaminski?

[36:44] Who also made – yeah, that's right.

[36:45] It's part of our celebration of the work of Janusz Kaminski.

[36:49] As cool as ice.

[36:50] Then the next night, Friday, January 26th, we're very excited to be part of the San Francisco Sketch Fest in San Francisco, California.

[36:56] We're going to be at Cobb's Comedy Club talking about Gigli.

[37:01] The movie that brought together and destroyed the relationship of Ben Affleck and General Lopez.

[37:06] They worked it out, though, eventually.

[37:07] They brought it back together.

[37:08] Look how happy he is now.

[37:10] And there's the back together.

[37:11] America's love story.

[37:12] I wonder if they watch it regularly now that they're married.

[37:14] Maybe.

[37:15] We'll ask them.

[37:16] And maybe they'll be there.

[37:17] Maybe they'll show up.

[37:17] Does she still say, it's turkey time?

[37:19] She must.

[37:20] Every time she demands cunnilingus, she says, it's turkey time.

[37:23] Yep.

[37:24] So anyway, just as in the movie, don't know what I'm talking about?

[37:26] Come see the show, Friday, January 26th, San Francisco.

[37:29] Really?

Dan McCoy

[37:29] You've never seen Gigli?

[37:30] Oh, my God.

[37:31] You're in for not a treat.

Elliott Kalan

[37:33] What's the opposite of a treat?

[37:34] A trauma?

[37:35] And then finally, on Sunday, January 28th, we'll be in Los Angeles, California, my hometown,

[37:41] at the Regent Theater, where we're going to talk about that critical darling of the 90s cinema world, Spawn.

[37:49] We're going to talk about the movie that paved the way for the MCU, you could say, by showing that, yes,

[37:54] you can make a superhero movie with computer animation.

[37:56] It just doesn't have to be good.

[37:58] Spawn.

[37:58] So again, that's...

[37:59] Wow.

Stuart Wellington

[38:00] Marvel really took that and ran with it.

Elliott Kalan

[38:04] Eventually.

[38:05] January 24th, Vancouver, Cobra.

[38:08] January 25th, Portland, Cool as Ice.

[38:10] January 26th, San Francisco, Gigli.

[38:12] And January 28th, LA, Spawn.

[38:15] Go to flophousepodcast.com slash events to buy tickets.

[38:19] And for more information, that's flophousepodcast.com slash events.

[38:22] Some of these shows, there may be VIP tickets available where you may get to see us.

[38:27] I'm not sure if they are.

Dan McCoy

[38:29] The Vancouver one is the only one with VIP, and I believe they're sold out by now.

Elliott Kalan

[38:34] Oh, never mind then.

[38:35] Sorry, everybody.

[38:36] Well, you can still see us in person.

[38:37] But hey, let's say you don't want to see us in person, but you still want to see us.

[38:42] Why not tune in to Flop TV?

[38:44] There's one more new episode left of Flop TV, our monthly live internet broadcast show where

[38:49] it's like this, but in front of your face and video.

[38:51] And it also fits into a nice mostly one-hour time slot.

[38:55] So you can do other things with your night if you want to.

[38:57] Our last show will be on January 6th.

[38:59] That's the first Saturday in January.

[39:00] And we're talking about the second worst movie I've ever made, a movie I don't like, but it's

[39:06] been in the news lately because it's suddenly expensive on video, I guess.

[39:09] And that's Nuke.

[39:10] So January 6th, we're going to be talking about Nuke.

[39:13] That's at 9 p.m.

[39:14] Eastern, 6 p.m.

[39:15] Pacific.

[39:15] If you get a season pass, you'll have access to all of the episodes that we've already done.

[39:19] We'll have episodes of those recordings.

[39:21] Your ticket to Nuke, if you can't make it live on January 6th, gets you access to the

[39:24] video of that.

[39:25] But if you have the season pass, you can go back and binge all of the episodes we've

[39:28] done.

[39:29] They'll be available, what, through the end of January?

Dan McCoy

[39:31] Through the end of January.

[39:32] And I don't want to oversell this because I may fail hugely, but I am trying something

[39:40] very ambitious for my presentation for this Nuke episode.

Elliott Kalan

[39:45] Even if Dan fails, that itself may be a joy and a triumph for the viewers at home.

Stuart Wellington

[39:50] And so-

[39:50] It's like that, it'll be like that Daffy Duck cartoon where he sets himself on fire on a

[39:54] stage.

Elliott Kalan

[39:54] Well, he does that on purpose, though.

[39:56] He swallows a lot of explosives and then swallows a match and blows himself up.

[40:00] That's what he does.

[40:01] It's an amazing act.

[40:02] Yeah, but I can only do it once.

[40:03] And then he goes up to heaven or down to hell sometimes.

[40:06] Anyway, those episodes, after the end of January, we'll go back into the Flophouse vault.

[40:11] So don't miss your chance to join us for this final episode of the season.

[40:14] Hopefully we'll do more someday in the future.

[40:16] But this is the final one for now.

[40:17] Go to theflophouse.simpleticks.com.

[40:20] And on January 6th, join us for Nuke.

[40:23] But if you want to see us in person so close, you could touch us if our security wasn't going

[40:27] to slap you down if you tried to.

[40:29] Then come to see our Errors Tour this January.

[40:32] January's got a lot of Flophouse performing.

[40:34] I'm looking forward to it.

Stuart Wellington

[40:35] Dan, you secured security by the Hells Angels this tour, right?

[40:39] Yep.

[40:40] History tells me nothing can go wrong.

Elliott Kalan

[40:43] I once heard a story about the band Sparks that they said, we want to be in charge of security

[40:48] for the venue.

[40:49] And they said, okay.

[40:49] And they hired nothing but models and put them in security costumes or security uniforms.

[40:54] So they were still doing the security job, but it was all just beautiful models wearing

[40:58] security uniforms.

Dan McCoy

[41:00] Probably a much better way of keeping people in line than the Hells Angels.

[41:05] Yeah.

[41:05] Intimidate them with beauty.

S4

[41:12] Hello, sleepyheads.

[41:14] Sleeping with Celebrities is your podcast pillow pal.

[41:17] We talk to remarkable people about unremarkable topics, all to help you slow down your brain

[41:23] and drift off to sleep.

[41:25] For instance, we have the remarkable Neil Gaiman.

[41:28] I'd always had a vague interest in live culture, food preparation.

[41:36] Sleeping with Celebrities, hosted by me, John Moe, on MaximumFun.org or wherever you get

[41:42] your podcasts.

[41:44] Night-night.

S5

[41:47] Somewhere in an alternate universe where Hollywood is smarter.

S4

[41:53] And the Emmy nominees for Outstanding Comedy Series are Jet Pacula, Airport Marriott,

Elliott Kalan

[42:01] Frepple, Dear America, We've Seen You Naked, and Allah in the Family.

S5

[42:09] In our stupid universe, you can't see any of these shows, but you can listen to them on Dead

[42:16] Pilots Society.

[42:17] The podcast that brings you hilarious comedy pilots that the networks and streamers bought,

[42:23] but never made.

[42:24] Journey to the alternate television universe of Dead Pilots Society on MaximumFun.org.

Stuart Wellington

[42:31] So, welcome back outside the actor's studio.

[42:36] We're talking about the works of actor Val Kilmer today.

[42:40] Now, we've talked about a hand-picked selection of big movies he was in.

[42:45] Let's talk about some little movies.

[42:47] And while I've had a chance to throw out some faves, well, you guys, Dan and Elliot, why

[42:51] don't you throw out a...

Dan McCoy

[42:52] Okay, which one of those things are we doing first?

[42:54] Are we talking about little movies or are we throwing out faves?

[42:56] A fave little movie?

[42:59] Well, I mean, this is not little, although it's littler.

Stuart Wellington

[43:04] Little is completely the wrong term.

[43:08] Everything's little to God.

Dan McCoy

[43:09] I'll throw it in the garbage.

[43:10] No, I mentioned it before, you know, maybe it's a weird pick, but because it was on television

[43:19] a lot when I was a kid, Real Genius is the movie I associate most with Val Kilmer.

[43:25] Perfect.

[43:25] And I think that that movie has stood the test of time in a way that a lot of 80s comedies

[43:32] haven't.

[43:33] I mean, it helps that it doesn't really have a bunch of offensive stuff, at least not that

[43:38] I can remember, like, and it, I like that it has real nerds in it.

Elliott Kalan

[43:43] You couldn't make a movie like Real Genius anymore, Dan, because the Cold War is over.

Stuart Wellington

[43:47] Yeah.

[43:48] It was, so I think part of the reason why it holds up is because it was directed by Martha

[43:53] Coolidge.

[43:54] Yeah.

[43:55] Who didn't put that kind of, you know, it didn't put gross shit in it.

Dan McCoy

[44:00] No, yeah, it is a weirdly sensitive movie for what it is, like a bunch of geniuses cutting

[44:07] loose and doing pranks and stuff.

[44:10] And I, I, as I, I like that other than Val Kilmer, who, you know, is movie star beautiful and

[44:17] has a lot of charisma in that part.

[44:19] Like all of the, the nerds in it look convincingly like nerds who would go to these schools, you

[44:27] know, like they feel like more like real, you know, young people who are growing and I don't

[44:35] know, awkward and learning, you know, and it's, it feels very lovable.

Stuart Wellington

[44:40] Yeah.

[44:40] Especially compared to, uh, it's pure Revenge of the Nerds.

[44:45] Yeah.

[44:46] Oof.

[44:47] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[44:47] Wow.

[44:48] Which tried to warn us about how poisonous nerds can be, but we didn't listen.

Elliott Kalan

[44:53] Yeah.

[44:53] Revenge of the Nerds is a chilling prophecy that, that the world has only made come true.

[44:58] Yeah.

[44:59] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[45:00] There's a theory of a big bang.

[45:04] Where studios will try and make you not be concerned with nerds.

Elliott Kalan

[45:09] You should not pay attention to that.

[45:10] No, no, no.

[45:11] Keep watching the nerds.

[45:12] That's what, that's what we're running as we run through the streets as trucks of nerds

[45:16] are being brought into towns.

[45:17] You're next.

[45:19] Keep watching the nerds.

Stuart Wellington

[45:20] You're next.

[45:21] Delicious though.

[45:22] Delicious.

[45:22] I had never seen, so I had never seen Real Genius.

[45:25] I did not grow up with it.

[45:26] It just wasn't a movie that my folks had on tape at home.

[45:29] And we didn't have cable when I was growing up.

[45:32] So it, I just watched it the other day and yeah, it holds up.

[45:36] It's funny.

[45:37] Val Kilmer is great in it.

[45:39] Yeah.

[45:40] William Atherton.

[45:41] Everyone's favorite.

[45:41] William Atherton.

[45:42] 80s asshole is in it.

[45:44] And there's a ton of Valley Girl crossover, of course, with Martha Coolidge.

[45:49] So it was cool to see those people.

[45:51] And then of course I went and watched Valley Girl, which has some, just one of the guys crossover,

[45:55] which is great.

[45:56] Yeah, it's all part of the same universe.

[45:58] The 80s teen cinematic universe.

[46:00] Yeah.

[46:01] Absolutely love it.

[46:03] No, Real Genius is great.

[46:04] And Val Kilmer's great in it.

Elliott Kalan

[46:07] I haven't seen Real Genius since I was a kid.

[46:09] Maybe I'll watch that again sometime too.

[46:10] When it was on HBO all the time.

[46:13] I'll mention, this is another kind of movie about, this is kind of along the lines of

[46:18] Heat.

[46:18] This is a movie about men doing bad things and being bad that Val Kilmer is a supporting

[46:23] actor in.

[46:25] But Bad Lieutenant, Port of Call, New Orleans.

[46:27] It's a very different movie than Heat in a lot of ways.

[46:29] I think it's a great movie.

[46:31] I think Val Kilmer's really good in it.

[46:33] And similarly, because he's able to play off a much wilder performance from Nicolas Cage.

[46:40] And it's just an example of one of the things that Val Kilmer does really well that he also

[46:44] does in Heat, which is provide that kind of ballast while also creating his own character.

[46:50] He's not just there in relationship to the main character, but he is providing a necessary

[46:56] counterweight to that main character at times.

Stuart Wellington

[46:58] I think that's one of the things that Val Kilmer brings to a lot of his roles is that even if

[47:03] he's not going to be getting the spotlight, he puts in the work to build a character for

[47:10] himself.

[47:11] Yes.

[47:11] And it, I mean, it shows.

Elliott Kalan

[47:14] He feels like in many ways that he is kind of, I mean, he's a thinking actor in a way

[47:20] that he didn't have to be in his career necessarily because he was very handsome and he could have

[47:25] easily been Batman or The Saint or whatever.

[47:28] I mean, he could do it forever because those movies didn't do great.

[47:30] It hurt him as an actor.

[47:32] Yeah, it probably did.

[47:32] It hurt him in his career.

[47:33] Yeah.

[47:33] Whereas if he was more like his Top Gun cast mate, Tom Cruise, who is eager to kind of, is

[47:39] up for whatever, but doesn't seem to put a huge amount of thought into some things other

[47:44] than the mechanics of doing an amazing thing on camera.

[47:47] Like, but of the two of them, which one is going to do a touring show where they, where

[47:51] they perform as Mark Twain?

[47:53] Not Tom Cruise.

[47:54] It's going to be Val Kilmer.

Dan McCoy

[47:54] Well, I mean, yeah, it's just like, I mean, like obviously Cruise is wildly committed to

[48:00] like what he does and, but at a certain point he seemed to lose interest in like the thing

[48:06] that he does being like challenging himself as an actor versus like-

Elliott Kalan

[48:10] Well, he, instead he's, he's like a Douglas Fairman type.

[48:12] He's more of an entertainer.

[48:13] Yeah.

[48:13] He kind of challenges himself to perform physical stunts or to be in situations.

[48:18] Yeah.

[48:18] And that's a, that's a valid way to provide entertainment, but it's not necessarily like

[48:21] the craft of acting, especially because if the craft of acting is creating the illusion

[48:26] that you are a person in a situation, being that person and putting yourself in that situation

[48:31] is not acting.

[48:32] When Tom Cruise is like, well, if I'm going to be in this helicopter crash, I better learn

[48:35] how to fly a helicopter and crash it.

[48:36] It's like, well, that's not acting.

[48:38] That's stunt work, which is still an amazing craft, but you know, it is not, it's not the

[48:42] same thing.

[48:42] You know.

Stuart Wellington

[48:43] I remember when Bad Lieutenant, Port of Call, New Orleans came out and there was buzz about

[48:47] it and I'm like, what?

[48:49] They made a fucking sequel to Bad Lieutenant?

[48:52] And also that like Werner Herzog made it.

[48:54] It seems a weird move for him.

[48:55] Yeah.

[48:56] And like tracking it down and it's so, it was so weird and fun and like, yeah, it's great.

Dan McCoy

[49:03] And I believe Herzog never watched the Ferrara movie.

[49:07] I believe like that's at least the.

[49:09] Yeah, I think he's correct.

Elliott Kalan

[49:10] I mean, it makes sense for him.

[49:12] I don't think he's watched a single episode of The Mandalorian and he's in it.

[49:17] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[49:18] Do you think, do you think they gave him one of the, the Baby Yoda puppets to take home?

[49:23] Probably.

[49:24] I would hope so.

Elliott Kalan

[49:26] I don't understand what this.

[49:27] He cuddles up with it.

[49:28] He is.

[49:29] I mean, he might think it's cute.

[49:30] He loves it.

[49:30] He loved it.

[49:31] Isn't that the story?

Stuart Wellington

[49:33] Like, fell in love with Baby Yoda.

[49:35] Yeah.

[49:36] There's that story where Jon Favreau, like, they took the puppet out so they could shoot it in case they wanted to use a digital Baby Yoda.

[49:42] And Werner Herzog called him a coward.

Elliott Kalan

[49:47] I love it.

[49:48] I mean, that's right up there with the stories of Ingmar Bergman watching Jurassic Park over and over again.

[49:52] It's like, just because they're weird artists, does not mean that they don't like the same things people like, you know?

[49:57] Yeah.

[49:58] Yeah.

[49:59] Yeah, they're still human beings.

Dan McCoy

[50:00] And Kubrick really – didn't he, like, love Steve Martin movies, like, specifically?

Elliott Kalan

[50:04] Well, there's – I was just watching that HBO documentary about Albert Brooks, and they tell the story in that about Stanley Kubrick calling Albert Brooks and being – about the movie Modern Romance and being like, you made the movie I always wanted to make.

[50:16] How did you do it?

[50:16] This movie is amazing.

[50:17] And Albert Brooks being like, what?

[50:19] Like, you made 2001.

Dan McCoy

[50:21] Well, I mean, I think that, you know, you are amazed by the stuff that you can't do yourself.

[50:26] And, like, you know, Kubrick, like, Dr. Strangelove notwithstanding, like, not necessarily, like, the funniest man it seems to be.

[50:34] Not a funny filmmaker.

Elliott Kalan

[50:36] Yeah.

[50:36] Although Barry Lyndon has some really funny parts.

[50:37] The ending of Barry Lyndon is very funny to me.

Stuart Wellington

[50:39] There are moments of clockwork horns that are funny.

[50:44] Not all of it.

[50:46] Yeah, I don't know if I would put laugh L.A.F.F. riot on the poster.

[50:51] Yeah, I feel like people would be mad at you.

[50:53] Rage Stuart Wellington.

[50:54] Yeah, people would be mad at you.

[50:55] If you did that.

[50:56] But, you know, sometimes that's the bit and you got to commit to it.

[50:59] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[51:00] Gun busting for the whole family from age one to 101.

[51:03] Says Stuart Wellington about a clockwork orange.

Stuart Wellington

[51:06] I'm going to talk about, I'm going to wrap it up with a movie that has a very small, but I would say important Val Kilmer performance.

[51:15] I'm talking true romance.

[51:18] Have y'all seen true romance?

[51:19] I have.

Elliott Kalan

[51:21] It's another one that I have not watched since I was a teenager.

[51:23] And I should watch it because I feel like I will react to it differently.

[51:25] Than I did then.

[51:26] As a teenager, did you like it?

[51:28] No, I reacted with extreme distaste.

Dan McCoy

[51:30] I did not want to exist in that world.

[51:32] But I think I might appreciate it more now.

[51:34] I had the same.

[51:35] I haven't seen it in years.

[51:36] Oh, I loved it as a kid.

[51:37] I was like, what is this Tony Scott flash all over everything?

[51:42] Everyone's unpleasant.

[51:44] But now I feel like that kind of stuff, yeah, I crave it in a weird way.

Stuart Wellington

[51:50] I mean, I feel like I-

[51:51] Unpleasant flash.

Elliott Kalan

[51:51] That's why you liked the movie The Flash so much because it has very unpleasant flash in it.

Stuart Wellington

[51:55] Unpleasant flash is the evil flash, right?

[51:59] Not quite evil.

[51:59] No, it's more like mid-range.

Dan McCoy

[52:01] He comes to your party.

[52:03] He doesn't commit crimes.

Elliott Kalan

[52:04] You don't want him around.

[52:06] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[52:07] It's not outwardly insulting, but it's clear that there's an insult buried in it.

[52:11] Yeah, True Romance is-

Elliott Kalan

[52:12] You can tell he's not really paying attention in conversations.

[52:14] He's just waiting to say the thing that he wanted to say, even if it's not related to what everyone else is talking about.

[52:19] But he does it real fast.

Stuart Wellington

[52:20] Yeah.

[52:21] At least there's that.

[52:22] True Romance was a movie that when I saw it, I was like, this is amazing.

[52:25] How would I not have heard of this?

[52:26] And I loved it.

[52:27] But then, you know, I got a little bit older.

[52:29] I'm like, what is all this garbage and flash, yada, yada?

[52:32] And now I'm back around and like, no, I like this again.

[52:35] And obviously, it's filled with great little character performances.

[52:41] You know, you're Christopher Walkins.

[52:42] You're Dennis Hoppers.

[52:44] You're Gary Oldman.

[52:45] Gary Oldman, anybody?

[52:47] What a-

[52:48] Bronson Pinchot.

[52:49] Bronson Pinchot.

[52:50] Brad Pitt.

[52:51] Mm-hmm.

[52:51] And Val Kilmer-

[52:52] Patricia Arkay.

[52:53] Yep.

[52:54] Well, that's a-

[52:55] That's a lead performance.

[52:55] Yeah, that's a lead performance.

[52:57] And Val Kilmer-

[52:59] Let's not forget that-

Elliott Kalan

[53:00] I'm looking through the cast now, and I forgot that Paul Bates from Coming to America is in it.

[53:05] Oh.

[53:05] A movie that I watched over and over again when I was a kid, Coming to America, that was a favorite in our household.

Stuart Wellington

[53:10] Yeah, I mean, Coming to America's, what, top five best comedies of all time.

[53:16] So, and True Romance, Val Kilmer plays Elvis, and he-

[53:22] I don't even think you see his face, really.

[53:24] If anything, it's obscured through, like, it's only seen through a mirror, and it's obscured with sunglasses.

[53:30] But he provides kind of a, I wouldn't say conscience, but maybe a impetus, like a driving force for Christian Slater's character.

[53:38] A inner monologue, basically telling him to commit crimes.

Dan McCoy

[53:44] Sort of like that dog we talked about before.

Stuart Wellington

[53:46] Yeah, sort of like that cool dog.

Elliott Kalan

[53:50] Cool dog.

[53:51] Yeah, son of Sam's dog, he had sunglasses on, he was still cool.

[53:54] Yeah, yeah, it was so cool.

Dan McCoy

[53:55] That dog was a rascal, you know, it was all meant as a goof.

Elliott Kalan

[53:58] Oh, that reminds me of, Stuart, I meant to send you this picture I took yesterday of a car in front of me on the freeway that had the license plate, a scamp.

Stuart Wellington

[54:07] I was like, oh, Stuart's car.

[54:10] Oh, man, I shouldn't let that guy borrow my car.

[54:13] He's kept it this whole time.

[54:14] What a scamp.

Elliott Kalan

[54:15] I think the change that you went through in this movie, Stuart, is one that I think a lot of people who appreciate movies go through, or art in general, I guess, where when you're young, you like the surface elements of a thing because you think they're cool.

[54:29] Like, you genuinely think they're cool.

[54:31] And then when you get older, you're like, eh, there's nothing under here.

[54:35] But then when you get older than that, you suddenly have this new appreciation for those surface elements as surface elements, rather than reading some kind of meaning or some kind of depth into it that maybe isn't there.

[54:46] And I think that's a healthy arc.

Dan McCoy

[54:48] Yeah, I think at a certain point, if you like the medium, you just appreciate the moviness of it all, you know, sometimes.

Elliott Kalan

[54:55] Or if you're film critic David Thompson, you just become a weird kind of creepy perv about Nicole Kidman, and that becomes the main driving thing through your film writing.

Dan McCoy

[55:07] What a weird drive-by of that guy.

Elliott Kalan

[55:11] You got him.

[55:12] Got him.

[55:13] I don't know.

[55:13] I was just thinking about that recently.

[55:14] He's a very well-respected film writer.

[55:16] But then every now and then, he'll just be like, he'll just write something that's so horny for Nicole Kidman out of nowhere.

Stuart Wellington

[55:24] Right.

[55:25] Hey, I mean, it shows that even film writers are humans, too, and have their weird obsessions.

Elliott Kalan

[55:31] Is it, what, in the essay, The Immediate Experience, where there's the thing about how a critic is someone watching a thing and experiencing it, and they have to describe that experience, and they have to be true to that experience, you know?

[55:41] Yeah.

[55:42] And you can't have film without desire, I guess.

[55:46] Especially film like romance.

Dan McCoy

[55:49] That's your perfume ad.

[55:53] You can't have film without desire.

[55:56] And you can't have desire without Kaelin.

Elliott Kalan

[55:59] Smell like an old can of film.

[56:01] Kaelin, a fragrance.

[56:04] Not bad.

[56:05] Okay.

[56:06] Smell like the theater I was in last night, full of popcorn and farts.

[56:09] Kaelin, a new fragrance.

Stuart Wellington

[56:12] So we're going to wrap this up.

[56:13] We have one final segment.

[56:15] This is where we are going to take a look at all the Val Kilmer performances that you can remember.

[56:21] And I want you to identify one that you think would be the best, which character would be the best hang and which would be the worst hang.

[56:31] I have my worst hang queued up.

[56:34] Yeah.

[56:34] Why don't you go?

[56:35] Because we have a little research to do.

[56:36] I would love to go.

[56:38] Worst hang, it's got to be Jim Morrison, right?

[56:40] Yes, I thought you were saying.

[56:41] That would be exhausting.

[56:43] Sorry to jump on that grenade, guys.

[56:45] But I don't think that Jim Morrison would be fun.

[56:48] And Val Kilmer's commitment to that character makes him even less fun.

[56:53] Let's see.

[56:54] A good hang.

[56:56] I mean, it's going to be tough to beat real genius.

[56:59] I feel like he's got like an airy, like intellectual quality, but he is still committed to having fun and making sure that the people around him are having fun, even while he's making fun of them.

[57:13] So that's what I'm going to have to say.

[57:16] I've chosen my best hang and worst hang.

Dan McCoy

[57:19] I'm going to say I'm going to go with best.

[57:22] I think since you took real genius, I will go with Tombstone because even though he's like.

[57:29] Yeah, he's cool.

[57:30] You know, I mean, like, you know, it's a party when he's around.

[57:34] You know, eventually it's all going to fall apart.

[57:37] But for now, let's just have fun with Doc Holliday.

[57:41] And worst, I guess I'll go with the villain from the steam experiment.

[57:47] Because he'll put me in a steam room.

[57:48] He may lock you in a sauna and try to drive you insane.

Stuart Wellington

[57:50] Oh, yeah, that's what he did.

[57:52] I mean, that's a pretty simple experiment.

Elliott Kalan

[57:54] He wanted to prove that climate change was real by locking people in a sauna.

[57:59] And the movie was anti-climate change as reality.

Dan McCoy

[58:02] His theory was that if you put a bunch of people in a really hot room where they're slowly dying from the heat, they might get cranky.

[58:11] Yeah.

[58:12] And he proved it.

[58:13] He proved it.

Elliott Kalan

[58:14] Much in the same way that if you put a frog in a pot of boiling water, it will die.

[58:18] Yeah.

[58:19] That's what that experiment proves.

[58:21] Worst thing, I'm going to go with his character of Montgomery in The Island of Dr. Moreau, which we mentioned earlier.

[58:26] He is unpredictable.

[58:28] He's a sociopath.

[58:29] He will see nothing wrong with just letting loose a bunch of murderous animal people and throwing drugs and things to them so that they kind of lose their minds.

[58:39] I don't want to be around that kind of energy.

[58:40] That's not so great to me.

[58:42] But for a good hang, I think there's another role I mentioned before, but they did do a video of it.

[58:48] I'm going to say Mark Twain, who Val Kilmer for years performed as a one-man show.

[58:52] And I know all you Hal Holbrook fans are mad that anyone else would pick up the Twain mantle.

[58:57] There's more than enough Twain to go around.

[58:58] There's at least two.

[58:59] His name is Twain.

[59:00] Stately Twain mantle.

Stuart Wellington

[59:02] Well, the documentary, I haven't seen – have you seen Cinema Twain?

[59:06] Have you seen –

[59:06] No, I haven't yet.

[59:07] I really want to see it, yeah.

[59:09] But the footage of the show in the Val documentary is pretty good.

[59:15] I was skeptical of it, but he's good in it.

Elliott Kalan

[59:18] No, it's a show I genuinely regret that I did not know of – I didn't get an opportunity to see it because I don't really think he can perform it now with the way his voice is.

[59:27] But I do want to see the movie version of it.

[59:31] So that's why I'm going to say Mark Twain, again, someone who in real life, kind of a difficult person to be around in the long term.

[59:36] But I think probably a fun person to hang out with for an evening, you know, with all the Bon Motts and all his stories and things like that.

Stuart Wellington

[59:42] So that's been Outside the Actor's Studio.

[59:47] Next time we'll be talking about another actor that I find fascinating.

[59:51] I think – I don't know when we're going to get around to do another one of these, but I think the next one is going to be Holly Hunter, guys.

[59:55] Oh, okay.

[59:56] If you want to brush up Holly Hunter.

[59:58] Love Holly Hunter.

[1:00:00] So our show is on the MaxFun Network.

[1:00:03] You can support us and other great shows by going over to MaximumFun.org.

[1:00:07] Yeah, it's produced by Alex Smith, who goes by Howell Doughty on various socials.

[1:00:13] He's the best.

[1:00:14] I've been your host, Stuart Studio Wellington.

[1:00:17] I'm Dan Actors McCoy.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:21] Didn't go with the one I gave you, huh?

[1:00:23] And I'm Elliot Electric Lights Kalen saying thanks to and thanks to you, the listener.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:28] Bye!

[1:00:35] Maximum Fun.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:36] A worker-owned network.

[1:00:37] Of artist-owned shows.

[1:00:39] Supported.

[1:00:40] Directly.

[1:00:41] By you.

FH Mini 94 - Outside the Actors Studio - Val Kilmer

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