Ep. #419 - Cat Person, with Hallie Haglund

[0:00] On this episode, we discuss Cat Person.

[0:04] Not to be confused with Cat People, which is multiple cat persons,

[0:07] or Hat Person, the story of Jamiroquai.

[0:11] I don't get that.

[0:16] I love Hallie's look.

[0:18] You know, because Jamiroquai's got that big hat.

[0:20] Oh, Hat People.

[0:22] Yeah, you'll make more sense when you hear it later,

[0:25] when you listen to it on the podcast.

[0:27] Hey everyone, welcome to The Flop House, I'm Dan McCoy.

[0:54] My name is Elliot Kalin, and joining us today,

[0:56] we've got a very special guest.

[0:59] Hi, it's Hallie Haglin.

[1:01] That's right, the star of the show is here, Stuart is not.

[1:05] Apparently he had better things to do, and Hallie did not have better things to do.

[1:09] Empty Schedule Haglin, so they call her.

[1:12] Wow, if you knew the backbends I've had to do to make this work into my schedule.

[1:19] Yeah, she's doing us a real favor.

[1:21] Actually I should say, she's doing us a real favor,

[1:23] and both of these two folks are doing me a real favor,

[1:25] for reasons that may come up later in the episode,

[1:28] I had to travel abruptly, and so Hallie and Dan are recording at night,

[1:33] on a Sunday night.

[1:34] Hallie had to rush to watch this movie during her family time, I assume,

[1:38] and they're really doing me a favor.

[1:40] Hallie's got to rush to watch this movie during her family time.

[1:46] Oh, sorry, you've got to take care of the kids.

[1:49] Got to be done, folks.

[1:51] I've got an important movie business.

[1:53] Hallie, are you excited to be back?

[1:54] I call my husband Folks.

[1:55] Folks.

[1:57] Because you don't know his name, yeah.

[2:00] So Hallie, are you excited to be taking the reins as,

[2:05] not a fourth co-host, but one of three.

[2:09] One of the three Klotsketeers.

[2:10] I've done this before.

[2:12] It's your first time stepping up to the plate,

[2:15] let's see what happens, reaching the majors.

[2:18] It's been a long...

[2:19] No, I think it hasn't been that long,

[2:21] I've just been replacing you, so you don't remember.

[2:25] Yeah.

[2:26] I don't know any of that, I wasn't there, so I don't know if it happened.

[2:28] No, but it has been a while.

[2:29] Elliott doesn't listen to any episode he's not on.

[2:33] Usually, in the early days, we would have,

[2:36] we were bad about scheduling ourselves until the last minute,

[2:39] and then we would often have a third person replacement.

[2:43] In this case, it's been a while since we've had one of us duck out,

[2:46] but Stuart is off chasing kangaroos and kissing wallabies, I guess.

[2:53] That's what they do.

[2:54] He's busy.

[2:55] And Hallie, I think last time, I think you filled in for me

[2:58] when I had children and things like that.

[3:00] Oh yeah, no, it's since I've been in LA, I think.

[3:03] Yeah, so it was not anything as exciting as going to Australia,

[3:06] so I guess maybe that's why I blocked it out of my mind, yeah.

[3:08] Yeah, not as exciting.

[3:10] Yeah.

[3:11] I'm happy to be here.

[3:13] I hear, isn't there a thing about how koalas have chlamydia or something?

[3:19] I only bring this up because you sexualized Australian animals

[3:24] in your short introduction.

[3:27] So I wasn't, you know, I would never have gone there,

[3:31] but I hope, be careful.

[3:34] And there's many reasons not to have sex with a koala.

[3:37] That's just one of them.

[3:38] Yeah, they can't give consent.

[3:40] That's another important one.

[3:43] They've always got their babies on their backs,

[3:45] which just makes it weird.

[3:47] Inappropriate in many ways.

[3:48] That's why the Australia Tourism Board,

[3:50] they have their slogan,

[3:52] G'day, don't do it, mate.

[3:54] And it's got a picture of a sexy koala.

[3:56] Yeah.

[3:57] So speaking of sexy animals,

[4:00] Cat Person is a movie that we watched.

[4:03] I mean, there's, I don't know about an animal.

[4:07] Now, let's get into, this is a movie that was based on

[4:12] Okay, hold on.

[4:13] Well, yeah, sure.

[4:14] Let me set it up for new listeners who are coming in.

[4:17] This is a weekly podcast.

[4:20] We release an episode every week on a Saturday morning.

[4:22] But what do we do on this weekly Saturday morning podcast?

[4:25] Aside from sell sugary cereals to kids?

[4:28] Well, two Saturdays in a month, we watch a bit.

[4:32] And then roll our heads.

[4:35] And our heads change.

[4:36] We'll be right back.

[4:39] Yep.

[4:41] I guess people our age will remember that.

[4:46] But yeah, half the time, this is a podcast where we watch a bad movie.

[4:51] Then we talk about it.

[4:52] And by say bad, we haven't watched it before the show.

[4:55] Most of the time, it has been decided upon either critically or commercially.

[4:59] This is not a film for us, the viewing public.

[5:02] And we judge it for you.

[5:04] Sometimes it's just a movie that we think might be interesting to talk about.

[5:07] So we haven't seen the movie before we select them.

[5:10] Showing your hands a bit?

[5:13] No, not in this case.

[5:16] We don't have to talk about the off weeks because that's not what this is.

[5:19] And this week, we watched a movie.

[5:20] And it was Cat Person.

[5:22] And it was based on a New Yorker short story that was probably the most talked about New Yorker short story since Shirley Jackson's The Lottery.

[5:31] Yeah, I think not since The Secret Life of Walter Mitty has a New Yorker short story been adapted to film so quickly, I think.

[5:39] Despite perhaps not being a natural fit for adaptation to film.

[5:45] Which the third act of the film really points out as we'll see.

[5:49] Yeah, we'll get into it.

[5:50] I think both Elliot – well, I don't want to spoil that.

[5:52] We'll talk about it when we make our judgments.

[5:54] Let's talk about this movie, what happens in it.

[5:58] Were either of you familiar with the story beforehand?

[6:01] Because I read this story when it was a new story.

[6:03] Did you do that?

[6:04] Yes.

[6:05] Yeah, it was all over the internet at the time.

[6:08] I was like, you got to read this story.

[6:10] I mean, I read it in print in the pages of the New Yorker magazine.

[6:14] As did I, as did I.

[6:16] The way all New Yorker articles are meant to be read, in pieces while on the toilet.

[6:21] Oh, no.

[6:22] I was on the subway, you know.

[6:24] New York's toilet.

[6:27] I read it online despite having a subscription to the New Yorker that I cannot seem to shake.

[6:33] I don't know who's paying for it.

[6:35] I don't know how it happens.

[6:38] I deliver it to my apartment weekly, and I toss it away.

[6:43] Because while I enjoy the magazine, just to have a subscription is inviting stacks of unread New Yorkers in a way that I cannot take.

[6:54] Wow, that's cool.

[6:55] I can't believe I'm taking off my fanny pack, guys.

[6:58] We're ready to talk.

[6:59] She's getting down to business.

[7:00] In case she sounds different, she's now fanny pack-less.

[7:03] Now, I'm a regular New Yorker reader, but I am about eight to nine months behind at any given time.

[7:10] I read them in order, because why not?

[7:11] I'm a dork.

[7:12] But this is as good a time as any to use the thing that I can't use anywhere else, which is the Seinfeld spec episode that I dreamed a couple months ago.

[7:20] That was all about the New Yorker, where Kramer starts getting a mysterious subscription to New Yorker at his apartment that he doesn't know how it got there.

[7:27] But he becomes enamored of the magazine, and he decides he's going to read it cover to cover, every issue.

[7:33] And Elaine is like, yeah, but you've got to watch out for pile-up.

[7:35] You're going to have to deal with pile-up.

[7:36] He's like, what's pile-up?

[7:37] You're never going to catch up.

[7:38] It's going to have pile-up.

[7:39] And Kramer becomes obsessed.

[7:40] He's like, no, I'm going to defeat this pile.

[7:42] And so he has locked himself into his apartment until he finishes all these New Yorkers, and they keep coming, and he can't stop it.

[7:48] And meanwhile, Banya gets a Shouts and Murmurs in, and Jerry pretends it doesn't annoy him.

[7:53] But he's so angry that he has to write a Shouts and Murmurs, and he ends up stealing George's idea for Shouts and Murmurs.

[7:59] I had an idea for a scene where Elaine runs into David Remnick at a party and suggests a New Yorker moratorium that they stop publishing the magazine for a year so everyone can catch up to it.

[8:08] And this is – I woke up and I was like, oh, it's too bad the only show this works on went out of the air years ago.

[8:16] It's a pretty good spec.

[8:18] I mean that's like incredibly well-developed.

[8:21] I feel like you should just write it.

[8:23] Maybe I'll just write it.

[8:24] Maybe I'll do it just for fun.

[8:25] But yeah, this is the kind of stuff I dream.

[8:26] So I either have dreams that are someone is chasing me, or it's an entire story that I can then write down.

[8:32] So what's it going to be tonight?

[8:34] Let's find out.

[8:35] I've been having all these dreams where I'm speaking to people in Portuguese, which is very weird.

[8:41] You speak Portuguese, so that makes sense.

[8:43] But not very well, especially now.

[8:46] It's like I'm trying to speak Spanish and I keep speaking Portuguese, and I don't know where they're coming from.

[8:55] Last night I dreamt I went to Mandalay again.

[8:58] So we all had weird dreams.

[9:00] No, but Dan, that's for the previous Mrs. McCoy to do.

[9:03] Oh, okay.

[9:04] So let's talk about – so Cat Person – it's a – Cat Person essentially – I would describe the story, the original short story as it's a depiction of a – it's a short story.

[9:12] It's a depiction of a moment in a young woman's life where she kind of gets – falls into a relationship with an awkward older guy.

[9:18] She mishandles it.

[9:19] He's weird, and it just – it ends on a sour note.

[9:24] And as Dan said, it's not necessarily the most adaptable to a film story because the thing that – I like that story, but the thing I found best about it was that it was like how kind of tenderly and delicately it handled a situation where two characters are awkward around each other and are doing – making bad decisions around each other, don't know how to be the people they want to be.

[9:45] What did you guys think when you read it?

[9:47] I mean did you like it?

[9:48] Did you not like it?

[9:49] Dan, I know it reminded you of the way you've been when you fall in love with older guys.

[9:54] Oh, yeah.

[9:55] I mean it is reminiscent.

[9:58] I mean I think –

[10:00] any guy who reads it, any woman who

[10:02] reads it is probably like, this

[10:05] reminds me of bad things that

[10:07] happened to me and

[10:09] any guy reads is like, shit,

[10:11] did I act like this at some point?

[10:13] I mean, the thing about the story

[10:16] is he doesn't sort of reveal it,

[10:18] he's weird.

[10:20] And you understand why his feelings

[10:23] are heard, but he doesn't reveal

[10:25] himself as like sort of bad until

[10:29] the end, which is kind of literally

[10:31] the punchline of the story in that

[10:34] it punches you in the stomach where

[10:36] he reveals that he can only deal

[10:38] with his sadness over this

[10:40] relationship by lashing out and

[10:42] calling her a whore.

[10:43] And this movie is kind of, I mean,

[10:46] we'll get into it, but it's weird

[10:49] to me that it reaches that moment.

[10:51] And then it goes further in a way

[10:54] that-

[10:55] Okay, we've hit the act two point

[10:57] of no return, time to get to act

[10:59] three.

[11:00] And they feel like they need to

[11:02] sort of reset the ambiguity about

[11:04] it in a way that then leads both

[11:07] of them to behave in wildly illegal

[11:09] fashions in a way that sort of,

[11:11] I don't know, they're trying to

[11:14] spin out this sort of balance past

[11:16] the point at which the plates have

[11:19] fallen off the table, I feel like,

[11:21] but maybe we'll get into it more.

[11:24] Let's get into it.

[11:25] Let's talk about it.

[11:26] Okay, so-

[11:26] No, wait, Hallie, what do you think?

[11:28] No, no, we don't need to hear.

[11:29] Her experience is not relevant to

[11:30] this.

[11:31] Hallie, what did you think of that

[11:32] original story?

[11:34] I liked it.

[11:34] I thought, I'm geared up for

[11:38] this conversation because I didn't

[11:41] actually, I think I kind of knew

[11:43] that this was like a bad movie in

[11:45] the sense that it would be an option

[11:47] for us to watch.

[11:49] But I don't really know why

[11:53] people define it as a bad movie.

[11:55] And I'm sure that I'll, well,

[11:59] let's not get ahead of ourselves.

[12:01] Let's talk about, I know,

[12:02] I have some mixed feelings about

[12:02] this movie, too.

[12:03] We'll have to get into it.

[12:05] But okay, let's talk about the story.

[12:07] I'll just say I liked the story

[12:08] when I read it.

[12:09] All right, we start with Margo.

[12:12] She's a young college student played

[12:13] by Amelia Jones from CODA.

[12:15] She works at a movie theater snack

[12:17] bar, and she's hanging out at her

[12:20] snack bar.

[12:20] We hear the audio from a trailer for

[12:21] a horror movie.

[12:22] Revival Theater.

[12:23] A tall guy with a beard.

[12:25] Yes, it's Nicholas Braun from

[12:26] Succession.

[12:27] He comes up and orders red vines,

[12:30] and she's kind of snarky about it,

[12:31] and he does not respond.

[12:32] Cut to a night sky.

[12:34] In text, we get that old chestnut

[12:36] that Margaret Atwood quote about how

[12:37] men are afraid of women laughing at

[12:38] them, and women are afraid of men

[12:40] killing them.

[12:41] And they wait until the last,

[12:42] they wait so long to put

[12:43] Margaret Atwood's name up,

[12:44] as if the movie is considering

[12:45] claiming that as an original quote

[12:47] that they don't have to attribute

[12:48] to somebody.

[12:48] I thought they were going,

[12:50] I didn't think they were going to

[12:51] put her name.

[12:52] That was fascinating.

[12:53] It's almost like you can feel

[12:54] the person with the finger hovering

[12:56] over the button that says

[12:57] attribute quote to, and he's like,

[12:58] all right, and the next, and

[13:00] then the opposite.

[13:01] And I say, he could be a she,

[13:03] I don't know.

[13:04] Margot is walking home that night,

[13:05] she meets a stray dog.

[13:06] She does the thing most people do

[13:09] and try to bring it into her dorm,

[13:10] but her RA, very reasonably,

[13:12] I think, stops her from bringing

[13:14] a stray dog into the dorm.

[13:15] This RA is presented as a real snob.

[13:18] Real, B-I-T-C-H.

[13:21] Exactly.

[13:22] Clear that in this case,

[13:23] she's doing it because it's going

[13:24] to storm outside, and

[13:27] she just has a soft heart for,

[13:28] she's not going to keep this dog

[13:30] forever, she's just like, hey,

[13:31] I'll take care of her.

[13:32] This dog seems very gentle.

[13:33] It doesn't seem like it's going to

[13:34] cause a lot of trouble.

[13:36] I think this is your general

[13:38] anti-animal sentiment.

[13:39] I'm not anti-animals, I just think

[13:41] when you're living in a place like

[13:42] a dorm, which is a communal

[13:43] setting, it would be different if

[13:44] it was an apartment building.

[13:46] Yeah. I think she's a hero for

[13:47] bringing this dog in from a storm.

[13:49] But in a communal place where you

[13:51] don't know if people are allergic

[13:51] to those animals, you don't know

[13:53] if this animal's going to run

[13:53] around peeing and

[13:54] pooping all over the place.

[13:55] That's for the students to do,

[13:56] to pee and poop all over the place.

[13:58] That's not for the dogs to do.

[13:59] Maybe this dog is really smart.

[14:00] That's called college.

[14:01] Maybe this is kind of like

[14:02] a goodwill hunting dog, and

[14:04] the dog's going to turn out to be

[14:05] a super genius, make all the other

[14:06] students feel bad,

[14:07] ruin the grade curve.

[14:09] We don't know that.

[14:10] We do now, because we watched

[14:11] the movie and we find out

[14:12] the secret of that dog.

[14:13] But anyway, that night,

[14:14] Margo wakes up to hear a woman

[14:16] crying for help outside her door.

[14:18] The dog has killed the RA.

[14:19] There's blood all over the walls.

[14:21] It's a nightmare.

[14:21] She wakes up from a nightmare.

[14:23] This is one of the first of many

[14:24] fantasy sequences in the movie.

[14:26] Guys, how did you feel about

[14:27] the fact that she's constantly

[14:28] going into fantasy fugue states

[14:30] like Brian Benben and Dream On,

[14:32] except instead of old TV clips,

[14:33] they're fantasies?

[14:34] I will say that there are points

[14:36] later on that take us inside her

[14:39] thinking that are fantasies that I

[14:41] found very effective.

[14:42] This sort of symbolic,

[14:46] metaphorical dream stuff,

[14:48] I could do with that.

[14:50] Yeah, and it feels like it is

[14:51] a way to try to,

[14:52] the movie is constantly running

[14:54] with hints or

[14:55] themes of women in peril,

[14:57] or women feeling like they're in

[14:58] danger, and it felt like it was

[15:00] a cheap way to get her to hear

[15:02] a woman crying out for help.

[15:05] And for the audience to be like,

[15:06] what's happening?

[15:07] This is, I know this story,

[15:09] and it's, I don't know.

[15:10] So I think that this scenario made

[15:13] less sense than some of them.

[15:14] But I feel like when

[15:17] the intention behind them is

[15:19] motivated by she's scared and

[15:21] she's imagining how she could be

[15:25] threatened, then it makes a lot

[15:27] more sense than, I don't know.

[15:29] Honestly, I feel like I probably

[15:31] would have written this piece of

[15:32] shit, so I'm very defensive of it.

[15:35] No, I agree with you, though.

[15:38] There's stuff when she has fantasies

[15:41] of how things could go wrong, or

[15:44] there's stuff that's her justifying

[15:47] maybe her feelings for this man

[15:49] who she's constructing a world that

[15:52] doesn't exist because she's

[15:54] supporting this romantic fantasy.

[15:56] Both of those are effective.

[15:57] Here, it's just like, okay,

[15:59] well, we just entered into the movie.

[16:01] What's going on?

[16:01] Why are you wasting time with

[16:03] a dog fantasy?

[16:04] You could say it's a thematic

[16:05] foreshadowing of her bringing

[16:06] something innocent looking into her

[16:08] life, and it may be

[16:10] becoming a danger to her.

[16:11] Except the danger, as we'll see,

[16:14] it's hard to parse how much of that

[16:15] is actually real or not, and

[16:17] how much of it she's feeding into.

[16:19] And so it's, anyway,

[16:20] it's very confusing.

[16:21] It was like, if this was Tar,

[16:23] I'd be like, doesn't have to be

[16:24] a dream sequence.

[16:25] There's a killer dog,

[16:26] she just goes about her day.

[16:27] But the tone of this movie is

[16:28] a little different.

[16:29] Margo's friend, Taylor-

[16:31] So obsessed with Tar.

[16:32] Look, not only is it a great movie,

[16:36] there are huge pits of it

[16:37] in the city we live in, you know?

[16:39] Just lying there.

[16:40] You can scoop it up for free.

[16:43] Yeah, just take a mug,

[16:44] bring your mug down to the pit,

[16:46] just give yourself a cup of tar,

[16:48] slurp it down.

[16:49] You know, gum up the works.

[16:52] You can really taste the dead mammoth.

[16:56] It's great.

[16:56] So Margo has a friend, Taylor.

[16:58] Her friend Taylor has a B-story runner,

[17:01] I guess, where she is mad at

[17:03] the co-moderator of her feminist

[17:04] online chat group, because it turns

[17:06] out he's actually a guy who was using,

[17:08] who's pretending to be a woman

[17:09] in order to be an ally, but

[17:10] he didn't know how or something.

[17:12] And Margo goes to her biology class.

[17:14] She becomes so fixated on an ant

[17:16] colony, almost hypnotized by it,

[17:18] an ant colony case, that she's

[17:19] startled when Professor Isabella

[17:21] Rossellini taps her on the shoulder.

[17:23] And this is a character,

[17:25] doesn't need to be in the movie,

[17:28] totally pointless.

[17:29] I don't care.

[17:30] If Isabella Rossellini is in

[17:31] the movie, that's a net plus for me.

[17:32] I don't care what she's doing.

[17:33] I want her to be in every movie.

[17:35] But why did she want to be in this

[17:38] movie?

[17:38] Like- Cha-ching.

[17:40] Yeah, she must have gotten paid,

[17:42] like 90% of the budget must have

[17:44] been getting Isabella Rossellini.

[17:47] I mean, she also, most of her role

[17:48] was giving a speech about how ant

[17:49] queens choose their sexual partners,

[17:51] which she was going to give

[17:52] that speech anyway.

[17:53] Yeah, I mean, she loves that.

[17:55] She does those videos.

[17:56] Yeah, she loves that stuff.

[17:57] About bugs having sex.

[17:58] Yeah. She's so great.

[17:59] I think she's amazing.

[18:00] Those don't pay the bills.

[18:02] So she's like,

[18:03] you're going to pay me to do it?

[18:05] But this is another case in which

[18:07] she's set up to be like,

[18:08] there's all this ant colony stuff

[18:09] about like- She actually asked that

[18:12] to be written into the movie.

[18:14] Because I kept wondering,

[18:15] why does this archaeologist have

[18:17] an ant colony?

[18:18] That made no sense.

[18:20] She seems to be either

[18:21] an archaeologist, an anthropologist,

[18:23] or an entomologist, or all three.

[18:25] She's a triple threat.

[18:26] They go, Isabella Rossellini,

[18:27] she's a triple threat.

[18:28] Archaeologist, anthropologist,

[18:30] entomologist, she could do it all.

[18:31] If she's going to find a society of

[18:33] prehistoric cave ants that have

[18:35] tools, then her whole career makes

[18:37] sense.

[18:38] But you're right,

[18:39] she's just kind of a general

[18:41] college professor.

[18:42] She just kind of teaches everything.

[18:44] Yeah, I mean, well, and she's,

[18:46] all this ant stuff too,

[18:47] like ladled on top of the dog stuff

[18:49] that starts the movie.

[18:51] It's just like, there's a lot of

[18:53] animal metaphors being tossed around.

[18:55] And you're making a very good point.

[18:58] Choose your lane and stay in it.

[19:00] Are you an ant movie or a dog movie?

[19:02] I mean, your title says you're

[19:04] a cat movie.

[19:05] Yes, exactly.

[19:06] Thank you, Dan.

[19:07] It's so confusing.

[19:08] This kind of, we don't have to choose

[19:10] what kind of movie we are,

[19:12] what kind of animal we deal with.

[19:13] This is the problem with

[19:14] Hollywood today.

[19:15] Thank you, Dan, for

[19:16] finally putting a name to it.

[19:17] So, and she also, they examine

[19:19] the bones from a female sacrificial

[19:21] victim, which this is a movie that so

[19:24] many of the details tie into this

[19:26] theme of the fear of women for men,

[19:28] that at a certain point I was like,

[19:30] is there anything else going on in

[19:32] this world?

[19:33] It seems like everything is all

[19:35] about this.

[19:35] And I can't tell if that's good

[19:37] writing or bad writing.

[19:38] What do you think?

[19:39] Food for thought.

[19:40] I mean, okay, so here's my thought.

[19:42] I thought, I'm curious because I

[19:45] kept being like, I'm wondering if

[19:50] this film was more on the nose than

[19:54] most films, or if it's like this

[19:56] makes you guys more uncomfortable.

[20:00] So it's like just as on the noses most films, but it's like stop hitting with us over the head

[20:06] like women are afraid of men and i'm like

[20:09] Yeah, we are guys

[20:11] I mean that's that's

[20:13] Completely possible because my you know, like my reaction to the cat person's story was like oh

[20:19] This is good

[20:20] I'm, not sure why it's setting the world on fire and I think that's because

[20:25] I am not on that side of it. So like it doesn't speak to me in the same way, you know, so I could

[20:31] Just not not be a good audience

[20:34] for either

[20:36] uh

[20:37] the story or the movie, but the movie does seem a lot more

[20:40] Muddled in what it's doing and maybe we'll get into that as we go along

[20:44] So that night at the theater red vine's guy we learned his name is robert comes back

[20:49] He's snarky back to her and she fantasizes about going into the theater and sitting next to him

[20:53] But she doesn't really she just kind of looks at him and after the movie

[20:57] He tells her to give her his number and she does even though in the moment

[21:00] She's like why am I doing this and there's a montage of them texting back and forth with each other for days

[21:05] It's lots of banter over text over text. They it's so fun. They just love it

[21:10] Uh taylor is like stop texting so much don't get involved with him

[21:14] But they're interrupted by their musical theater friends coming in to promote their production into the woods and they start singing into the woods

[21:20] Here you go. Elliot. This is something that has nothing to do with the theme of the movie

[21:24] Just some a little bit into the woods

[21:26] This is nothing to do with the theme of young women maturing through through their encounter with older possible predators

[21:31] Yeah, sure and the and it was one of those things where I was like, you know what?

[21:35] This movie is really tapping into the frustration

[21:38] I felt going to a college that had a musical theater program

[21:40] Where the musical theater students were constantly bursting into the songs from into the woods

[21:44] So and I mean and rent at the time it was a lot of rent but also into the woods

[21:48] So it was one of the things where I was like is this?

[21:51] Good or is it bad or is it just that it's it's reminding me of a thing?

[21:54] I don't like that. I experienced elliot. I'd like to point out that in literally the previous episode you burst into the song

[22:01] The the title song from into the woods

[22:04] Yeah, yeah, but I did it in a fun way

[22:05] Yeah, I mean, I guess you you also got the lyrics a little bit wrong. So, you know, you you proved your bona fides

[22:12] That's not a theater nerd. Yeah, there you go. I think what I think it was something like into the woods

[22:16] We're going into those woods. Hey, check out the woods. We're going into them

[22:22] Into those woods, you just forgot that they also go out of the woods before they go home before dark. That's right

[22:28] They do into the woods and out of the woods and home before that's right. Also, that's true

[22:32] What about the ones who live in the woods like the sloths?

[22:37] There's not a lot known about them science

[22:39] It still has to do a little work

[22:42] Unfortunately, professor isabella. Rossellini has not done that work yet in her multifaceted career. Uh, okay working from smallest to biggest

[22:50] She's like the renfield of scientists. Yeah

[22:53] Uh, so one night, uh, robert brings some snacks to margo at the science lab because she says she's so hungry

[22:59] With I guess she has I don't know if she's studying or if she has a job as a lab assistant

[23:02] I guess she's like a very unclear another unclear just like will put you close to isabella. Rossellini

[23:08] Yeah, and they kind of talk awkwardly once he gets there and aunt bites margo and robert smashes it really loudly

[23:14] And she's kind of scared but she shows him the storage room where the sacrificial bones are

[23:18] No, he doesn't show him. He just goes in. That's right. He just walks in and then he says

[23:24] What's this?

[23:26] Making her go in and look at what it is

[23:29] Now, let me say one thing going into a door and saying what's this doesn't make you a creep unless jack skellington is a creep

[23:36] Checkmate hallie

[23:38] Went into a door said what's this? Everybody loved it

[23:41] Yep

[23:42] Years later, they're still selling stuff at hot topics commemorating the time that he went into a door and said what's this and said?

[23:49] What's this?

[23:50] What he did with that information. I don't totally approve of yeah

[23:54] of stealing christmas

[23:57] Yeah, and

[23:59] I don't know did

[24:01] The lady who lost her arm really come out on top in that

[24:05] What's her name again the doll lady

[24:08] sally

[24:09] I mean exactly so she could sew it back on though. She's a you know, she's a dull lady

[24:14] She shouldn't have no i'm not referring to the arm. I'm referring to she just transferred her

[24:20] You know allegiance from the professor

[24:24] Mad scientist to jack skellington who never seemed particularly interested. No, it's true. He was not a good

[24:31] Romantic interest. No, but at the very end at the very end. I mean he still calls her a friend but still yeah

[24:37] He's more taken up by his new christmas. Hobby

[24:41] Ladies if your man is more interested in chris in stealing christmas, then did you kick him to the curb?

[24:47] He is not the man for you. Yeah

[24:52] Find a man who looks at you the way jack skellington looks at christmas. That's what i'm saying ladies

[24:57] Hmm someone man was

[25:00] It was to unlock all your riddles

[25:02] anyway, so

[25:03] Uh, so that's right. He just wanders into the room

[25:05] Thank you for correcting me and she goes in after him and the door

[25:08] Closes and locks and she suspects him of closing the door to get her in there with him

[25:12] She fantasizes that he attacks her but and she starts to panic and he slams the door open so hard that it smashes the ant

[25:18] case killing the ant colony

[25:20] Professor isabella rossellini is as shattered as the ant case. We don't see her again for the rest of the movie. I think

[25:28] She's dead

[25:31] And that night she decided to join her aunts

[25:34] In in the god hill so, uh, robert walks her to her dorm and uh, she says i'm leaving for a break

[25:40] But I want you to keep texting me and she kisses and uh, he kisses her on the forehead

[25:44] And then there's another lots of texting back and forth montage

[25:46] She takes the train home to her cartoonishly

[25:49] Kind of type a wealthy family and they're all curious about robert and her mom hope davis who yes

[25:54] I used to see on the subway all the time tells her that uh,

[25:58] he that uh

[25:58] Finding a man means accepting discomfort and bullies her into performing a sexy duet of my heart belongs to daddy at her stepdad's 60th

[26:06] This is one of the strangest moments

[26:09] Definitely like what?

[26:12] Yeah, and the thing and what's especially bad is I mean it's all it's supposed to be awkward

[26:16] It's not supposed to be like, yeah, that was a great performance. I loved it

[26:19] You know, it's not singing in the rain where the songs are enjoyable to the audience

[26:22] But that the audience at his party is like hooting and hollering and cat calling like the whole thing is so uncomfortable

[26:27] It's supposed to be but still yeah, I look I

[26:31] It's effective

[26:33] It's it's all it's a little confusing to me because so okay

[26:38] Because she seems very sexy, right?

[26:42] Yeah, yeah, that's confusing

[26:44] I'm confused by my arousal. Sorry. I shouldn't have said

[26:48] No, I know it's just it's gross. It's like this like it makes you like think about this

[26:53] uh

[26:54] How baked into society this is the idea is of like oh i'm gonna sing a sexy song about how my heart belongs to daddy

[27:01] She's literally singing it to her father like her stepfather

[27:05] Yeah, yeah about younger women and older men and all the ends the how deeply that's baked in going back. Yes

[27:12] Because this is this is where I want to put my foot down because I do feel like

[27:15] Actually this like taps into like a lot of really uncomfortable young women's experiences

[27:21] But like this seemed insane like I do not believe that this would ever actually happen

[27:29] That a mother would ask her daughter to perform this like sexy dance number for her stepfather

[27:36] and that she would be like

[27:38] Like i'm I wasn't actually joking that like I mean, I think

[27:44] There was not enough

[27:45] Performed discomfort in this scene to like make it make sense to me. I was like what is going on?

[27:51] I mean once she agrees to do it, they put their all into it

[27:54] She is like, you know what in for a penny in for a pound i'm gonna i'm gonna get every she's like

[27:58] She's like don draper's wife singing zooby zooby zoo like she just wants everybody to be hot and heavy in the room

[28:04] I mean, I know a strange choice

[28:06] I know that elliot has seen several videos, you know predicated on a similar scenario happening

[28:13] I don't which I don't I don't like this

[28:17] I don't want to know no not a fan. No, thank you

[28:20] Um, anyway, so the i'm not even sure which I don't want to know exactly what kind of videos you're pointing to but i'm

[28:27] Implying things about your consumption of pornography. It's fine. Don't worry about it dan

[28:32] All the only porn I care about is when sonic and knuckles are having a baby together

[28:37] Because that's about the relationship they have. Yes

[28:40] Care for that child. Yes, and it's an emotionally committed thing that you can put yourself in you project yourself into sonic

[28:46] You protect yourself in the knuckles. Thank you. You feel cared for

[28:49] It's safe dan. The largest erogenous zone is the human heart

[28:52] Yeah

[28:54] Um, oh, no, wait, actually it's don't touch it though. Like don't know crack it open and try and like yeah

[29:00] Don't don't try to give someone a heart job. That's not okay. Yeah

[29:05] The only heart job you should get is handing out valentines

[29:08] Consensually to people who have ordered the valentines ahead of time delivering heart transplants if you were like the helicopter driver

[29:16] But don't let a dog eat that heart. Oh, no, that's a bad move. Don't let it you shouldn't have a dog in your helicopter

[29:21] Anyway, let alone an organ transport helicopter. Yeah

[29:25] Uh, so after the party, uh, she hangs out with her ex-boyfriend who reveals her high school boyfriend who reveals that he's actually asexual now

[29:33] and that seems to

[29:34] kind of rile something up in her and she

[29:37] Texts robert a sexy picture of herself in a nightie

[29:40] And when he doesn't respond right away, she gets nervous and texts him that she sent it as a mistake

[29:45] So weird that you use the word 90

[29:48] I don't know. What would you describe it as?

[29:51] a nightgown

[29:53] yeah, but like

[29:54] I like that. I was just trying to say

[29:56] She was wearing a nightie and panties you guys

[30:00] in a cute way. It's not just a nightgown, it's a nightie.

[30:03] Yeah, yeah. Cause she's wishing him a nighty night. Yeah. Specifically a nighty night Bugs,

[30:08] the only Bugs Bunny cartoon ever to win an Academy Award for some reason.

[30:13] Hallie's covering her face in dismay. Oh, we haven't even gotten yet. There's a moment

[30:18] in this movie that's coming up very soon. We're getting to very soon where I feel like

[30:21] this movie is really speaking for Hallie and we'll get to that.

[30:24] Can I stop for a moment and say like one thing that I like about this movie? Cause like this

[30:29] movie is an interesting one because it's, I'll tip my hand a little bit. Like it's not

[30:34] so much that I think that this movie is bad. It is an unusual adaptation of the source

[30:40] material, which can be fine. I just had a hard time getting the source material out

[30:45] of my head while watching it. So my feelings about this are kind of all over the map, but

[30:49] I do think that the movie was good at a lot of things.

[30:53] And one of them was depicting how, you know, when you are dating in this day and age, like

[31:01] texting can allow you to sort of get your, get yourself out in front of your skis in

[31:06] a way that like, yeah, get your hopes up, like, like establish a like false familiarity

[31:14] and, and like, like allow you to fantasize about like what this could be. Yeah. I think

[31:22] this movie is actually really good at that. Yeah. I haven't seen. And in a way that doesn't

[31:28] feel, there's some things in the movie that feel a little false to me, but that does not.

[31:31] I feel like these two people would text these things and they would get the incorrect impression

[31:35] from them. And it's not like, Oh, you said this, but I thought you meant this, but you

[31:39] mean this just the incorrect profession of how compatible they are or how comfortable

[31:43] they are with each other. You know, I do think a lot of that comes from the original story,

[31:46] but the movie is effective in, in, you know, adapting that and executing that. Yeah. Yeah.

[31:52] And it, so if I, it takes him days to finally text her back and he says, work has been busy.

[31:57] Taylor, her friend is like, cut this relationship off, get out of there. But Margo accepts that

[32:02] she says, get your power back. Okay. Oh, that's right. Get your power back. So not cut it

[32:08] off. But like, she's, she's texting too much. Like make him be the beta. Make him the chaser

[32:19] rather than the chaste. And Margo accepts Robert's invitation to see Empire Strikes

[32:26] Back at the theater she works in. And she exclaims out loud, Star Wars is so boring.

[32:30] And I was like, did Hallie write this movie? Hallie, did you feel seen in that moment?

[32:35] I felt so seen. I was literally like, this is a movie for women. I really felt like,

[32:43] oh my gosh, that like, to be like, are you fucking kidding me? You're asking me to go

[32:48] see Star Wars. Not only are you asking me to go to my place of work, not only are you

[32:52] like texting me out of the blue, but like, you're asking me to go see Star Wars and I

[32:57] am like, caught between pretending to like, give a shit. And also being like, really mad

[33:05] that you didn't realize that I wouldn't give a shit. Like, I thought that was an elegant

[33:10] choice. Yeah, I think so too. And it just took me back to the moment in the Daily Show

[33:14] offices when you said, how much longer am I gonna have to listen to you guys talk about

[33:17] fucking Star Wars? Yeah, I think that was when Elliot and I were arguing about Jabba

[33:22] the Hutt. I understand the Star Wars exhaustion and it speaks to a real thing out in the world.

[33:30] I mean, I know that there are also thousands, millions of women out there who love Star

[33:34] Wars, but I get what the- Not necessarily Star Wars exhaustion so much as Star Wars

[33:38] indifference, being forced to care about a thing that, or pretend to care about a thing.

[33:41] Like Hallie is saying, you do not care about, you don't want to have to deal with. But what

[33:44] about the Harrison Ford slander? How do you feel about that, Hallie? I shouldn't slander

[33:50] him. Okay. It was just like, this has to be the most important person and she was like,

[33:55] yeah, whatever. I mean, I have affection for regarding Henry. You have affection regarding

[34:05] Henry. No. Regarding, regarding Henry. All to say, Harrison Ford is in a lot of different

[34:12] kinds of movies and you don't have to pigeonhole him into- Sure. He's in Random Hearts. What

[34:19] about Lies Beneath? It was funny to me though that later on- Six Days, Seven Nights? There's

[34:22] a scene later on where he's like, yeah, I think I have a DVD of Working Girl around

[34:25] here. So even his idea of a movie for women still has Harrison Ford in it. Yeah. That's

[34:29] pretty funny. He mentions that Harrison Ford is the- Wait, you guys got that I was saying

[34:33] that he's in regarding Henry, right? Yeah, no, yeah. No, I understand. Yeah, no, we got

[34:37] it. Yeah. Yeah. We also were aware of that fact. Yeah, we got it. J.J. Abrams scripted

[34:41] regarding Henry. Have you guys ever heard of movies? There's this thing that Harrison

[34:48] Ford is in. I mean, what you just said, Hallie, I feel like it's the subtext of so many scenes

[34:52] this movie is men saying to women, have you heard of movies? And what they're really saying

[34:57] is, let me explain to you about the movie I think is a movie. And I don't care. Robert's

[35:01] constantly being like, oh, you probably just like subtitled foreign movies about Rwanda

[35:06] or whatever. And it's like, in his mind, those are the two types of movies. Empire Strikes

[35:09] Back and a subtitled movie that's super artsy about depressing things. But also the movie

[35:15] she said she watched the most was Spirited Away. And it's like, yeah, all right. That's

[35:20] pretty fucking nerdy. Well, guy nerdy. Like, yes, that was a movie when that was a moment

[35:25] when she was like, well, Spirited Away. And he's like, oh, yeah, I've heard of the director,

[35:29] but I haven't seen the director. And it's like he definitely saw that movie. He's definitely

[35:33] seen Miyazaki movies. There's no way he hasn't seen those. But the but he says he's like

[35:38] Harrison Ford is objectively the coolest guy, the epitome of cool or something. And it's

[35:42] like that his it's I like that as a moment of he's so mature that his idea of what the

[35:47] coolest guy is essentially like a fictional pirate, you know, like a fictional wisecrack

[35:51] and pirate, you know. So the date is very awkward. They see Empire Strikes Back. His

[35:56] car is gross. She fantasizes fantasizes about him murdering her again in the movie. She

[36:01] keeps it. Maybe it's not a fantasizing. Maybe it's a she's catastrophizing. I don't know.

[36:06] In the movie, she keeps talking during the movie and he just wants to watch the movie

[36:09] and is like very noncommittal. And I've definitely been that guy where a woman has watched a

[36:13] movie with me and started talking. And I've been like, yeah, yeah, but we're watching

[36:16] a movie like let's talk after the movie. I've been that kind of awkward. This is a point

[36:20] where a movie that you've seen like that many times that you're on a first date with. It's

[36:25] like, well, that's not the case. If it's it's always it's in this case, it's been a movie

[36:29] I either haven't seen or a movie I haven't seen in a long time. If it's a movie like

[36:31] if I was if I'm never going to be on a on a date with another woman again because my

[36:35] heart belongs to my wife. But if I was on a date with someone, we were watching Taking

[36:38] a Pelham one, two, three. Yeah, we talked to that whole thing. I've seen that movie

[36:40] like 40 times. I mean, I understand like I understand the movie wants me to like look

[36:47] at him as an asshole in this scene and sympathize with her, which I totally would if they were

[36:51] watching it at his at home. But this scene, I'm like, yeah, shut up. You're in a fucking

[36:56] movie theater. Stop. Stop whispering through the whole thing. I guess I'm defensive because

[37:02] I feel like she was already forced and not she was not forced. No, this is this is what

[37:09] I thought it did so well was like, pull the curtain back between like, I really felt like

[37:16] her inner monologue was pretty accurate about like, it's not like she has to go to this

[37:21] movie. It's not like she has to keep but she keeps like it's it's like a push and pull

[37:28] between like a fantasy of what this can turn out to be and a guilt with knowing that like

[37:34] this definitely isn't and there's no like there's no vision of reality. It's just those

[37:40] two extremes. Yeah. Yeah. Although and her coddling like his sensitivities. Well, that's

[37:46] the guilt. That's the guilt. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's a there's something about

[37:51] I think I think you're right that like her inner thinking is so clear, but I wish the

[37:54] movie didn't have her like saying it all the time. I wish the movie would trust the

[37:58] audience to like feel those. I feel like the short story trust the audience to feel and

[38:03] understand those feelings without stating them outright and the movie kind of doesn't

[38:07] doesn't trust the audience. But anyway, they go out for a drink, but she gets carded and

[38:10] she reveals she's only 20 and she starts to cry and feels dumb about it. And he kisses

[38:14] her ridiculously badly. Just a very clumsy kisser. That was so funny. You guys it was

[38:19] very funny. I thought it was very funny because it's like he's never even seen a kiss before.

[38:24] He doesn't know what he's doing. And I'll tell you that that guy I have not been when

[38:28] I started kissing. I knew what I was doing. Oh, OK. Yeah. Come on. All right. Because

[38:33] I took it. Danielle told you. Yeah, I mean, I guess so. You're the best kissing I've ever

[38:40] kissed. Are you in the band's kiss? Because you're so good at it. So they go to a second

[38:46] bar where Taylor tells Taylor is talking to her over the phone in the bathroom because

[38:50] ladies always have to go to the bathroom in groups, even if they're not with each other.

[38:53] They call each other on the phone. But anyway, they and Taylor is like, don't go back to

[38:57] his house and this date. But Margot was like, but if I have sex with him, he'd be so grateful

[39:01] because he's such a he's such a dork. And she decides to go home with him. No. OK. OK.

[39:08] OK. No. But I think that like misframes it a little bit, because I think we're supposed

[39:13] to draw context from the fact that, like, she's just been told her the person she lost

[39:18] her virginity to the like. Basically, only serious relationship we know in her life was

[39:25] is asexual, was just telling her like, it's not that I was disgusted having sex with you.

[39:30] I'm just disgusted about sex in general. And she is like, I think it's not just like, oh,

[39:37] he would feel like so grateful. So I should do it. It's also like I think she wants to

[39:44] feel desired. Yeah, I think that's true, too. I think those are two sides of the same coin.

[39:47] I don't think I don't think there's really different things. And she has a moment where

[39:50] the bathroom she's in, the wallpaper is just like lots of turn of the century women's faces.

[39:54] And she kisses one before she walks out. And I really like that. That was the kind of small

[39:57] little moment that I thought the movie could have used more.

[40:00] And one of them looked exactly like Michael Jackson, right?

[40:04] I didn't notice that.

[40:05] Did you guys see that?

[40:06] That one I didn't see, I have to admit.

[40:07] All right.

[40:08] Well, go back.

[40:09] I didn't see that.

[40:10] I wasn't watching it on a big enough screen.

[40:12] And they go home.

[40:13] He challenges her to name an Indiana Jones movie, which again is a very, that felt very

[40:17] real to me.

[40:19] And she imagines briefly that there's a torture chamber there.

[40:22] She's scared, but also like you're saying, Hallie, I think you're right.

[40:24] She wants to be desired.

[40:25] She likes that feeling.

[40:28] But when she gets into a super nerdy bedroom, it's not like, okay, but you're putting it

[40:32] like she likes that feeling.

[40:33] It's like she is vulnerable to that specifically in that moment.

[40:40] It's not just like women like, I mean, women, but I'm not saying that I'm not, I'm saying

[40:44] just in this moment.

[40:45] I agree with you.

[40:46] I don't think it's, I'm not saying as since Eve, she has as, as with all women, they have,

[40:51] you know, they've longed to be.

[40:52] I'm not saying that bring up fictional characters.

[40:56] Dan, fictional.

[40:57] Hello.

[40:58] No, I'm just, I'm being provocative to get clicks.

[41:07] Elliot brought up Eve and you'll never guess what Dan said next.

[41:10] You know?

[41:11] So they get to his nerdy bedroom and she has a conversation with herself.

[41:16] She's talking to her, to herself across the room in which they are like, what the hell

[41:20] are you doing here?

[41:21] Why are you doing this?

[41:22] You could leave at any moment.

[41:23] You could say no right now.

[41:25] And, and they're having this conversation while she's allowing Robert to have this kind

[41:28] of clumsy, ignorant sex with her.

[41:32] Someone who has minimal to no experience with an actual other human person.

[41:36] It seems like, and is doing what he thinks he's supposed to be doing based on the pornography

[41:40] he's seen.

[41:41] And, uh, yes, Hallie.

[41:42] Hallie Hedlund, The Flop House.

[41:43] Yeah.

[41:44] I just want to say really quickly, you said his nerdy bedroom, and I think that, I, I,

[41:52] he has a DVD of Minority Report just laying out on a cabinet, but that's not what, that's

[41:57] not what like is offensive to this.

[41:59] And it was so like, I literally had flashbacks to like date, like any experience in my life

[42:06] where I was young and in that situation.

[42:10] And it's not just like, oh, there's like the Minority Report DVD.

[42:16] It's that there's like a half drunk slurpee.

[42:20] Yeah, that's pretty gross.

[42:21] Three beer cans.

[42:22] And like, you own this home and it's like, not exactly a mess, but it's like, if I lived

[42:29] alone, I would never leave my home like this.

[42:32] Like there's something like very immature about the way he takes care of his fits.

[42:38] It's not just nerdy.

[42:39] It's like, yeah, flashback to college age, Dan, who was not aware of how often he should

[42:45] wash his sheets.

[42:46] I mean, look, I'm being, I'm being forthright, I'm being honest, like there are certain things

[42:55] that like I should have known, didn't really like sink in, like didn't like know how to

[43:02] take care of myself in those ways.

[43:05] No, and I was, I was too lazy to learn and it was only later in life.

[43:10] I definitely had at least one time where, where women came back to my apartment and

[43:13] we're like, this place is a mess.

[43:15] Like we're very open saying the things that Margo does not say, they're like, this is

[43:18] a mess.

[43:19] You need to not leave papers all over the floor and things like that.

[43:21] And it wasn't like food all over, but I'd have, you know, like papers and books all

[43:24] over the place and every, every surface.

[43:28] Chicken bones covering everything.

[43:29] Well, yeah, that's because I lived in the Texas chainsaw massacre house.

[43:31] That was Leatherface's stuff.

[43:32] That wasn't mine.

[43:33] I thought you were the girl from Girl Interrupted who keeps all the chicken carcasses underneath

[43:40] their bed.

[43:41] Different references.

[43:42] Yeah.

[43:43] Go ahead.

[43:44] But, uh, but, or like, uh, every, I feel like when you're a, when you're a young man, often

[43:48] every open surface becomes a place to put a thing.

[43:51] So I get that.

[43:52] That's true.

[43:53] And when you walk into that room, you're like, this is, this is horrible.

[43:56] Like you, you live in a sty, you know?

[43:57] And you're right.

[43:58] This house is not so dirty.

[44:00] That is like, it's not like a serial killers pit, you know, but it is, it does show someone

[44:04] who does not show care in what he's doing in the, in the home that he lives in, especially

[44:09] when he thinks he might be bringing someone home with him, you know, like a very like

[44:13] textbook, like recognizable, like, like immature, even when like at their kitchen.

[44:21] Yeah.

[44:22] Go ahead.

[44:23] Yeah.

[44:24] It's like, there's, there's all those pictures that go around online where it's like some

[44:25] guys, like I got my perfect apartment set up and they have like a mattress on the floor

[44:29] without even a box spring.

[44:30] There's a big video game chair and a huge TV and that's their entire apartment.

[44:34] That's all the furnishings.

[44:35] And you're like, Oh, okay.

[44:36] Like this is, I guess.

[44:37] Yeah.

[44:38] That's what young guys do.

[44:40] And this is, I mean, this is another place too, where I thought the movie was very effective

[44:44] and, and I, you know, discomforting in the sense that like, they're having two different

[44:51] experiences in a way that like, you can totally understand why he thinks everything's okay.

[45:00] Like, you're, you're not like mad at him for it, but like, she's having this whole other

[45:04] thing going on and you're like, man, like, like it makes you just like worry about life

[45:12] and be like, you know, like it shows you the important of like constant active consent

[45:16] because she is totally like, well, like she's going through a thing with a thing kind of

[45:22] just because she sort of like decided maybe earlier that she wanted to, and now she doesn't

[45:27] know what she wants, the total obliviousness on his part that he is not recognizing anything

[45:33] that's going on with her, you know, he's living out a fantasy that he is, he assumes

[45:38] his reality and it's not the same for her, you know, and like, and this is also fueled

[45:43] by her fantasy early on earlier on where like, we, one of the more effective things seeing

[45:48] inside of her brain, I think is like, is how there's four different people that each represent

[45:52] one part of her brain.

[45:53] There's this lab, there's the nerd, there's the, I don't want to do other parts, the jock.

[46:00] Yeah.

[46:02] No, but she has this fantasy earlier on where like, she's imagining him at his therapist

[46:09] talking about her and casting everything in a much more romantic way.

[46:14] And like, even in a way where she's like, not necessarily wrong about things, like,

[46:18] she's like, oh, you know, he wanted to share this movie with him with me because it was

[46:23] important to him and it was romantic to him, you know, like, and she's not wrong about

[46:27] that, but she's also making all these kind of pre-excuses for him and it's a very effective

[46:33] thing, I thought.

[46:34] I don't know.

[46:35] So eventually, so she goes, she has this experience, it's very unpleasant.

[46:38] She regrets the whole thing instantly.

[46:41] They do, they start to watch a DVD together in bed, it's like a European dubbed version

[46:45] of Working Girl, which is, and he reveals that he's 33 years old and that he was worried

[46:52] that when she went home for break, she would lose interest in him and that maybe she'd

[46:55] like get back together with an old high school boyfriend and that the picture she sent him

[46:59] in her nightie, I'm saying it again, was meant maybe for this other guy and that's why he

[47:05] got, he was very hurt by it because when she said that was a mistake too, he thought, uh-oh,

[47:09] she's seeing someone else, but now he knows he should trust her.

[47:11] And it's funny because he is, there's a way that they could have played this that would

[47:14] have been, I think, very funny, where he's like, I know I can trust you, we're real.

[47:18] At the moment that she has decided in her head, I can never see this guy ever again,

[47:21] you know, this cannot happen again.

[47:23] Yeah, Elliot's imagining a version where she's tugging at her collar, well, this is happening.

[47:27] Yeah, she's just like, goo.

[47:29] Yeah, and she says, you should drive me home right now, and as soon as she walks in the

[47:33] door, he texts her to make more plans, and I have been the guy who wants to make plans

[47:38] again right away and annoys people like that, not in a long time, again, then I reached

[47:44] the stage where I was like, I'm never showing interest in anyone else ever again, and that

[47:47] backfired the same way, so it's hard, relationships are hard.

[47:51] Let's talk about it, let's dig into it, Elliot.

[47:53] Let's go through your whole dating life.

[47:54] All right, anyway, so the year was 1994, so the next day, Taylor tells Margo, I was 12,

[48:03] but very mature for my age.

[48:05] A little movie called, what was going on in 94, was that Speed, was Speed a little movie

[48:12] called Shawshank Redemption came out and changed the way I thought about escaping from prison.

[48:17] So the next day, Taylor tells Margo, you gotta block him.

[48:20] Guys, good news, Speed was in 1994, I was right about that.

[48:23] So was Shawshank Redemption.

[48:25] Okay, and so was Forrest Gump, guys.

[48:29] Shawshank, 94, Forrest, yeah, 94, what a blockbuster year for movies.

[48:36] I like that you said Forrest as if you forgot the Gump part of it.

[48:39] No, I didn't, I hit it already.

[48:44] Remind me of your last name again.

[48:46] I was driving one of my sons to a doctor's appointment in Santa Clarita, and we drove

[48:53] by the corporate headquarters of the Andy Gump Company, the Porta Potty Company, and

[48:58] I was so excited.

[48:58] I was like, that's where their corporate headquarters are, and my son was not as excited,

[49:02] but that's if I wanted to get into the Porta Potty business, that I was so close to it,

[49:06] just a long commute away.

[49:08] That's where they dump it all.

[49:10] Gump dump.

[49:11] I was like, don't you understand, kids, you can't spell dump without most of Gump.

[49:16] Oh, no, Elliot's disappeared.

[49:17] No, I just bent down to get something out.

[49:19] It's okay, Dan.

[49:19] His virtual background took over for a second.

[49:21] Yeah, Dan doesn't have object permanence, it's okay.

[49:23] So the next day, Taylor's like, Block Margo, and she's like, he's suspicious.

[49:28] He told you he had cats.

[49:30] There were no cats at his house.

[49:31] Did you see that?

[49:32] Why would a man lie about having a cat?

[49:34] Because he wants to sound kinder, and he wants to sound kinder.

[49:38] He wants to sound kind, and gentle, and loving, and vulnerable.

[49:41] And Margo stops responding to Robert's texts, and imagines him dying in a few different ways.

[49:45] And then he sends her a montage of Harrison Ford roughly kissing women in movies,

[49:51] which I thought was a funny catch, that he's done that in a couple different movies.

[49:54] And Taylor takes the phone and runs into the bathroom,

[49:57] and she texts him, I'm not interested in you, please stop texting.

[50:00] me and he responds with an apology like, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to, I didn't know I made

[50:03] you upset.

[50:04] Now, they're at a pretty tame birthday drinks party for their into the woods friend.

[50:10] And they see that Robert is at the bar in the place that they're in and her friends

[50:14] surround her like a herd of elephants protecting a baby elephant from a predator so that he

[50:20] doesn't see her when they all leave.

[50:22] Which is a scene, this is one of many scenes that's in the story, basically, that this

[50:25] happens.

[50:26] And seeing it in person, maybe it doesn't feel this way, seeing it in person, it went

[50:30] from being realistic to a little silly to me.

[50:34] I was trying to remember that because I did not go, I remember that she saw him at a bar

[50:39] in the story, but that was really the context.

[50:43] I think she says something like they crowded around so that he wouldn't see me or something

[50:46] like that.

[50:47] I can't figure out how she says it in the story, but here it's like they're all shuffling

[50:49] together in one big crowd out the door in a way that maybe I was asking for that earlier

[50:54] scene to be funnier.

[50:55] They pre-understood my criticism and they were trying to give it to me, I don't know.

[50:59] But that's the thing, I feel like this movie can't quite figure, in the same way, and it's

[51:05] a movie that's getting at similar things somewhat, in the same way that Promising Young Woman,

[51:09] and maybe we'll talk about this more later, I also had issues with how the tone was all

[51:13] over the place.

[51:14] This one I kind of felt that way too, in some ways.

[51:16] That the movie cannot decide, I think, how real or how funny or how big it wants to be.

[51:21] Did you guys feel that way or am I reading too much into it?

[51:24] I know that opinions vary on this movie, it's controversial.

[51:30] I thought the Promising Young Woman had a much stronger handle over its tone.

[51:37] I think that's true.

[51:38] The problem that I have with this movie is largely just like it's slippery in that way,

[51:44] like there are things that are very goofy and then stuff that feels very small and frightening

[51:53] and anyway, Halle, what do you think?

[51:59] I feel like I'm not actually able to depersonalize this because I think that you guys, as people

[52:10] that I've worked with professionally who know things that I'm trying to write, I feel like

[52:16] these are themes that I'm so interested in seeing in creative works and also, you want

[52:24] to be playful with them but you want to bring their true weight to light.

[52:31] And so I'm constantly, when people comment about tone in specifically these two movies

[52:40] and in general with works like these, I'm like, is it just because people are really

[52:46] uncomfortable with these kind of themes that don't exist in movies because they haven't

[52:54] existed yet?

[52:56] Speaking for myself, it's not the themes, it's more that I could see a version of this

[53:00] movie that is very extreme and is didactic or agitprop in the way that I feel like Promising

[53:07] Young Woman is a little bit more, where Promising Young Woman is like, I'm going to make sure

[53:11] you understand this point.

[53:12] And this one has some of that.

[53:13] Or I could see a version of this that feels really real and kind of beautiful in how awkward

[53:20] and uncomfortable the characters are in what's going on with them and this one kind of...

[53:25] Okay, so look at Woody Allen, he's in between all of that, it's like real themes that people

[53:34] in relationships, you know, like let's cancel, whatever, but like real themes that like people

[53:40] in relationships can relate to, but also totally silly and like absurd.

[53:48] And so is it just that like, it's more from the woman's point of view, which like doesn't

[53:55] happen a ton, that is what makes like viewers feel uncomfortable with it?

[53:59] I mean, I will, I am willing to...

[54:03] I'm not, go ahead.

[54:05] No, no, no, no, no, I don't think you're indicting, I just, I mean, I'm kind of willing to go

[54:10] with you on that because like, I generally think that if the movie entertains and if

[54:18] the movie has like something to say and is communicating it to me, I am less of a tone

[54:27] policeman than like, I think a lot of people who critique movies, like I like a movie that

[54:33] where the tone is kind of all over the place because I think that that's truer to life.

[54:38] I mean, this one, it might be that like some of it makes me uncomfortable that I, so I'm,

[54:43] you know, I don't know how to respond to it.

[54:45] I think with me, it's more like the parts that are uncomfortable, I kind of wanted to

[54:49] be more uncomfortable and it felt like there was one of the issues I had with it was the

[54:53] soundtrack is nonstop.

[54:55] There's constantly pop songs on the soundtrack kind of underlining what's being done and

[54:59] it was like, I want to see, and one of the things that did it for me in a good way in

[55:05] terms of the tone in that scene where they're in bed together and she's having the conversation

[55:09] with herself is that the music that's playing is music that he put on and so it's part of

[55:13] the scene rather than the movie kind of like nudging me in the ribs about what's going

[55:17] on.

[55:18] There were a number of different scenes where I was like, I want to see this.

[55:20] This is going to be more uncomfortable and more powerful to me if the movie is not, it

[55:25] feels a little bit more real.

[55:26] So it feels a little bit less like it's trying to soften what's going on by putting a soundtrack

[55:32] on this kind of ironic, you know, we're trying to, there's a moment where coming up where

[55:37] she's walking at night and she puts on her headphones and she's listening to this Britney

[55:40] Spears song that I had not heard before, but which is all about Britney Spears.

[55:44] Like it's Britney, bitch, you haven't heard is that, are you really that surprised that

[55:49] I haven't heard that song?

[55:50] Come on.

[55:51] People have swag that says it's Britney, bitch, that they wear.

[55:56] Okay.

[55:57] I thought that was just what people were saying about her.

[55:58] I didn't know it was a song, but in that moment when she's listening to that song and she's

[56:04] feeling something listening to that song, I was like, this is a really powerful scene

[56:07] for me.

[56:08] This is really good because a song that she likes, that's why it's on her playlist.

[56:11] She's now something about it.

[56:13] It is underlining the moment of fear and paranoia that she's in and the trepidation she's feeling

[56:19] and I kind of wanted more stuff like that.

[56:21] And when you're saying like, what's the difference between this movie doing it and like Woody

[56:24] Allen doing it aside, you know, as like you said, setting aside of Woody Allen stuff is

[56:27] that Woody Allen, not always, but for the most part in a movie like Annie Hall is just

[56:31] better at, you know, like the, the jokes are funnier and the affecting moments are feel

[56:36] more real in that one particular movie, you know, fair enough.

[56:40] I'm not comparing this to, these are complicated comparisons to any movie, but I will say I'm

[56:47] not willing to like, be like, this is the female Annie Hall, but I will say, who's

[56:54] this character?

[56:55] I like, you know, I like, no, I like this character and it was like this, you call this

[56:59] like a manny hall.

[57:00] Cause it's from a lady's point of view, talking about a man.

[57:03] But I think that like what you're, what's bumping you about this is like reiterating

[57:09] the theme of what she's struggling with, which is just like, I'm I'm like, I feel like my

[57:17] job is to like make this guy comfortable.

[57:19] And like, I'm not the star of this.

[57:22] Like he, um, I say, is my husband brings me a martini, I can tell that was what was happening

[57:30] just off screen.

[57:31] I saw that look of like, I, maybe I texted for this, you know, I didn't, I didn't, he

[57:36] just brought it.

[57:37] Oh, that's very nice.

[57:38] Ladies, get yourself a man who brings you a martini in the middle of your podcast, the

[57:42] way Jack Skellington looks at Christmas.

[57:44] No, but the point is that like, I think that like a big part of this is that like her self

[57:50] consciousness is, and women's self consciousness, or I won't speak for all women, but the part

[57:57] that I identified with is that like, it's really my responsibility to make this guy

[58:05] have a good time.

[58:06] It's not my, like, I'm not the star here.

[58:10] Like, like, why am I doing this?

[58:12] And that's like, the, you know, her, her like, inner monologue manifested is like the woman

[58:19] outside of her is being like, you can say no, like, why are you doing this?

[58:23] Just like, stop doing this.

[58:24] You don't have to do this.

[58:26] And she's like, but he's, he's like, here and I gave him all these reasons why it would

[58:33] be upsetting to him.

[58:34] And it's like all about like his experience.

[58:37] And so to be like, the music you're hearing is like backing up his experience, like makes

[58:43] sense.

[58:44] No, I don't know.

[58:45] But I think that's the I think that scene, it works really well.

[58:47] And, you know, oh, I thought you were saying that you didn't like that.

[58:50] No, no, the scene where he's playing the music, it's more like when they're there, there's

[58:54] a part where they're going to his house.

[58:56] And they're in there.

[58:57] It's like they're in the bar.

[58:58] And there's a song playing as she picks him up.

[59:00] This is me being like, super just pedantic.

[59:03] But the there's a song like there's a needle drop song when she walks out with him from

[59:07] the bar, then they go to his house, there's another needle drop song as they're going

[59:11] into the house.

[59:12] And it was like, at the end, this is something I feel in a lot of movies is I'm like, let

[59:15] me live in this moment without the music.

[59:18] Like, let me live in this awkward moment of her about to go into his house.

[59:21] He thinks one thing, she thinks another thing.

[59:23] They're both there in the same moment.

[59:25] They're not.

[59:26] They're feeling different things.

[59:27] And they were just there are times in the movie where I just want something I think

[59:30] the short story did really well, which is, it kind of told you what was happening without

[59:34] telling you how to feel about it.

[59:36] And I feel like the movie is, is it's a very delicate thing to do and a hard thing to do.

[59:39] I feel like the movie is not as successful with that.

[59:42] And maybe the problem is that I keep like Dan mentioned earlier, with him, like, I keep

[59:46] comparing it in my head to the story.

[59:47] And maybe that's the issue.

[59:48] You know, the more we talk about it, the more I kind of don't mind the movie being pushy

[59:52] just in the sense that like, I don't know, it was effective at making me feel uncomfortable

[59:57] and making me like.

[1:00:00] how many times things in my relationship,

[1:00:03] I made them about me just because I'm used to it being about me.

[1:00:10] And I wince at the stuff where he's like,

[1:00:14] let me share this piece of art or media with you.

[1:00:19] Because I do think that it's something that is mostly

[1:00:24] associated with men, but happens with nerds of all genders.

[1:00:29] Where it's like, maybe we don't know how to express our emotions well.

[1:00:35] So we do it by forcing our stuff on other people.

[1:00:40] And to just like, I don't know, to be forced to sit in some of this.

[1:00:45] I don't know, maybe I'm coming around to liking the movie a little bit more in

[1:00:47] retrospect.

[1:00:48] I don't know.

[1:00:49] If this is about my birthday when I made you listen to that Japanese song.

[1:00:52] I loved that song, by the way.

[1:00:54] Yeah, I see you.

[1:00:55] Yeah, you made a little video.

[1:00:56] I made a little video.

[1:00:57] It was really good, yeah.

[1:00:59] Anyway, we'll keep talking about this.

[1:01:02] We should get through the rest of the movie.

[1:01:03] So Margot, she gets a text from him saying, I saw you at the bar.

[1:01:09] You're really pretty, I miss you.

[1:01:10] And she's instantly kind of paralyzed.

[1:01:12] And she and Taylor watch in horror as Robert keeps texting saying,

[1:01:15] I don't know what I did wrong.

[1:01:17] I really think you should tell me what I did wrong.

[1:01:18] I don't understand.

[1:01:19] Was that guy you were with your boyfriend?

[1:01:21] Are you having sex with him right now?

[1:01:23] Is that what's going on?

[1:01:23] And then finally just says whore at the end.

[1:01:26] And this is where the original short story ends.

[1:01:28] And it's rough.

[1:01:30] Like it's a powerful end to that story.

[1:01:32] But the movie keeps going.

[1:01:34] And Margot now is very worried that at any moment,

[1:01:36] Robert might come up to her, might surprise her, might be following her.

[1:01:41] She sees him getting into his car outside of the theater and reports this

[1:01:44] to a cop played by Liza Colon-Zayas from The Bear.

[1:01:47] And I was like, you should be in the kitchen.

[1:01:49] What are you doing?

[1:01:50] That's your place.

[1:01:51] You're succeeding there.

[1:01:53] You're excelling.

[1:01:54] And she's like, he didn't break any laws.

[1:01:56] I can't do anything about this.

[1:01:57] Okay, question in this moment.

[1:01:59] Did you guys think it was like a weird?

[1:02:01] I mean, it was clearly intentional.

[1:02:04] But I was like, I could believe this a lot more if it was like a male cop.

[1:02:10] And they chose to make it a female cop.

[1:02:12] But maybe they didn't want to make it cliche by making it a male cop.

[1:02:15] I think maybe there's something there about, I think you're right.

[1:02:18] They didn't want to be cliche or too obvious.

[1:02:20] And there's something there about maybe her having internalized the things

[1:02:24] that people say, I don't know.

[1:02:26] Or just a cop message of like, don't think that just because a cop is like you

[1:02:30] in some way that they're your ally.

[1:02:31] I know there's a lot going on there, I guess.

[1:02:34] Yeah, to me, it was sort of this idea of like, yeah,

[1:02:38] you would think that this cop would be more sympathetic.

[1:02:42] But she has sort of just been jaded by being a police officer and

[1:02:48] has kind of taken this line of whatever is the least resistance for

[1:02:54] me as a public servant to not worry about it.

[1:02:58] But the other thing is, when the movie is working well, and in this scene,

[1:03:00] it's a little, it's sometimes working well, sometimes not.

[1:03:03] When the movie is working well,

[1:03:05] it is riding the line of neither one of these characters is a villainous character.

[1:03:11] When she says he hasn't broken the law, it's true, he has not broken the law.

[1:03:14] He's an awkward, kind of weird, kind of a little creepy guy.

[1:03:19] And he was not pleasant to be around, and she found that out.

[1:03:23] She didn't treat him well.

[1:03:25] And he has not done anything.

[1:03:26] And so in these moments, I feel like the movie is doing a good job of balancing

[1:03:32] that thing of like, which the short story again does very well,

[1:03:34] where it's like neither of these people, this is not a hero and villain story.

[1:03:38] It's not an unblemished victim and predator story.

[1:03:42] It is two people who are constantly making mistakes

[1:03:45] in the way that they handle this situation.

[1:03:47] And so I wonder if that was part of it too,

[1:03:49] it's just that trying to continue that theme of he hasn't broken any laws.

[1:03:54] There's nothing that he's done that you can go to the police for.

[1:03:56] He was a bad date, and she saw him getting out of his car once,

[1:04:00] but he hasn't talked to her since then, aside from these being mean on text.

[1:04:05] So I feel like the more I talk about this movie, the more I like it,

[1:04:09] but it's more because I like what the movie is trying to do

[1:04:12] than I think necessarily that it achieves it.

[1:04:14] I think the aim of this movie is so good.

[1:04:16] And it's like, it doesn't quite hit the bullseye

[1:04:19] and said it's in that like third circle outside of it.

[1:04:24] But the, I mean, it's, I don't know, I don't know, darts or archery or whatever.

[1:04:27] I don't know what that's called.

[1:04:28] But Taylor and Marco, they're like, we need to defend ourselves.

[1:04:31] We need to defend the circle.

[1:04:34] Taylor goes, Margot, you need to defend yourself.

[1:04:35] They go to this this self-defense store and they buy a ton of mace

[1:04:39] and a tracking device and to, in theory, put on his car

[1:04:43] so that they can always know where he is.

[1:04:44] I thought that scene was very funny, by the way.

[1:04:46] The scene in the self-defense place is very funny.

[1:04:48] That's it. Yeah.

[1:04:50] I love how the guys like immediately like I could see why two beautiful ladies

[1:04:55] like you might be worried about that.

[1:04:56] And she's like, we are not going to be doing that back up.

[1:04:59] And he's like, OK, read the room.

[1:05:02] He has a name tag on.

[1:05:03] So she's instantly referring to him by his first name, which I think is very funny.

[1:05:06] And when he goes two words, Smith and Wesson, it's like that one.

[1:05:11] There was just a lot.

[1:05:11] There were some good jokes in that scene.

[1:05:13] And he's just you know, he's just a guy who's trying to work a job on his end.

[1:05:17] So it's like, I don't know.

[1:05:19] What do you want?

[1:05:20] It's yeah, everyone has clear wants.

[1:05:22] And that seems funny.

[1:05:23] Yeah. And the two of the friends to the guy friends burst into the room

[1:05:27] to invite them to a costume party.

[1:05:29] And that makes them mad because they're already keyed up.

[1:05:32] You know, they're already paranoid.

[1:05:33] And that turns into an argument between Taylor and Margo.

[1:05:36] And Taylor ends up storming out where they kind of indict

[1:05:38] each other's personalities to a certain extent that night.

[1:05:42] Margo does.

[1:05:43] But their personalities are they indict.

[1:05:47] One as being highly constantly

[1:05:50] skeptical of men and one as being too trusting of men.

[1:05:54] That's the one who's too trusting and one who's so skeptical

[1:05:56] that she hides behind the Internet, according to Margo.

[1:06:00] That this and I feel like this is the way in the movie takes its turn

[1:06:04] where it's like the filmmakers kind of weren't quite sure what to do with it.

[1:06:07] And so they go for the path of like what a movie is supposed to do.

[1:06:12] Because Margo sneaks into Robert's garage to put a tracking device on his car,

[1:06:16] which is an extreme action for a character to take.

[1:06:19] But maybe maybe, you know, this character's been pushed it.

[1:06:21] There's a dog in the garage.

[1:06:22] It's the dog she saw earlier in the movie.

[1:06:25] And Robert, here's the dog growling and comes out.

[1:06:27] And it leads to they get into a kind of semi not quite fight.

[1:06:32] And Margo accidentally maces herself and falls in his head.

[1:06:35] And she wakes up in Robert's house.

[1:06:36] And he's very angry.

[1:06:37] He's like, if you walk out of here like this,

[1:06:39] everyone's going to think I did this to you.

[1:06:40] And then he starts going through their texts to prove that she misled him

[1:06:44] and led him on or was into him or that he's just he's angry.

[1:06:47] He's going through their texts.

[1:06:48] And I've never been this guy, but I know guys do this kind of thing

[1:06:51] where they're like, you need to give me a reason.

[1:06:52] Look at these things you said.

[1:06:54] Meanwhile, Taylor is like, well, I think he's scared.

[1:06:57] I also think he's scared.

[1:06:58] Oh, I think he's angry.

[1:07:00] No, no, I get scared that like.

[1:07:03] Sorry, go ahead.

[1:07:04] Well, looking at it from his point of view, which I don't which

[1:07:06] when the movie is working well, I think you can do.

[1:07:09] He this is a woman that he went out with once.

[1:07:11] She did. She ghosted him.

[1:07:13] He doesn't know why.

[1:07:14] Then she showed up in his garage and and trying to plant something on his car.

[1:07:18] And now makes herself and has a head injury.

[1:07:23] Yes. Seems to be trying to entrap him in some sort of thing.

[1:07:25] So from his point of view, it's like, what is going on here?

[1:07:27] You know, what am I going to do?

[1:07:28] And this is what I was trying to get at earlier, where it's like

[1:07:33] the movie in extending the film beyond the natural end point of the story

[1:07:41] is still trying to kind of keep up this ambiguity where it's like, yeah,

[1:07:46] like you understand why she is terrified and she is more maybe historical,

[1:07:52] like definitely historical reason to be terrified.

[1:07:55] And he is like yelling.

[1:07:57] But also she broke into his home and like did something that would look very bad

[1:08:03] for him, and so the movie has turned into this weird kind of like

[1:08:07] the end of War of the Roses thing where it's more about like,

[1:08:11] I don't know, like how the mistrust between

[1:08:16] the heterosexual cisgendered sexes is going to like tear everyone apart

[1:08:21] than it is kind of saying something more like grounded and real at that point.

[1:08:25] I don't know.

[1:08:27] Like, it's it's I don't know how I feel about it.

[1:08:29] I like I'm kind of like impressed that the movie like took like a

[1:08:34] ballsy turn in adaptation, but it has gone so far

[1:08:39] away at this point, too, that it is, I don't know, something to see.

[1:08:45] I agree. How do you feel about it?

[1:08:46] I mean, well, we're not I don't want to jump ahead, but I agree.

[1:08:52] And I want to come back to that.

[1:08:53] OK. Elliot, go.

[1:08:55] OK. I mean, we could talk about it now.

[1:08:56] But so meanwhile, Taylor, she walks into Margo's room.

[1:08:59] She's not there. She goes, oh, my God.

[1:09:00] She knows what she's doing. She jumps in a Lyft car.

[1:09:02] We know because of dialogue earlier that she knows.

[1:09:05] But the driver of the Lyft car doesn't know that the driver of the Lyft car

[1:09:07] is the online moderator that she was mad at earlier.

[1:09:09] But she just goes, we've got to find Margo.

[1:09:11] He's been impersonating a woman.

[1:09:12] Yeah. And then opened a new.

[1:09:14] And then when she he was kicked out by her, opened a men's feminist, you know.

[1:09:19] He wants to be an ally, and she doesn't really understand.

[1:09:22] She doesn't. She's rightfully suspicious.

[1:09:27] Yeah. Weird.

[1:09:29] And Robert admits this is this was the moment that seemed that if each

[1:09:32] of these characters has a moment that where I'm like movie,

[1:09:35] I think this is not necessarily helping you with Margo.

[1:09:38] It is for me and for Margo.

[1:09:39] It is when she decides to put a tracking device on his car,

[1:09:42] which seems like a big jump.

[1:09:43] And for Robert, it's the moment where he admits, yeah, OK, so that was my dog.

[1:09:48] I was following you so that we could bump into each other

[1:09:51] and meet at some point.

[1:09:52] And I could ask you out.

[1:09:53] Is that so wrong?

[1:09:54] And that's something where I'm like, that's not a that he's like.

[1:09:57] And if we got married, this would be the story that would be told at our.

[1:10:00] wedding, it would be adorable and romantic.

[1:10:02] And it's like, that is a, I don't know,

[1:10:04] maybe it's just because I'm not the kind of guy

[1:10:05] who haunts places where there's a woman I know

[1:10:08] so that I can pretend to be meeting her,

[1:10:10] which is the kind of thing that happens

[1:10:11] in movies all the time.

[1:10:13] But like House of Gucci, for instance.

[1:10:14] But it's definitely like a,

[1:10:18] it's a moment when the character stops being

[1:10:19] an ambiguously creepish character to me

[1:10:23] and becomes a little more overtly creepy.

[1:10:27] But he goes, and he's yelling at her,

[1:10:29] and she's like, can you just help me get water

[1:10:32] for my eyes because of the mace?

[1:10:33] And he goes, you need saline solution.

[1:10:35] She goes, oh, you know that because you've been

[1:10:36] in this situation before?

[1:10:37] And he goes, I'm a nurse, that's how I know that.

[1:10:40] And while he's going to get saline solution,

[1:10:42] she starts calling 911.

[1:10:43] But wait, no, no, no, no, no, no,

[1:10:44] because this is one of the most important moments.

[1:10:46] He says, I'm a nurse.

[1:10:49] You would have known that if you ever asked me.

[1:10:53] And I thought that that was like a very illuminating moment

[1:10:57] of they're both caught up in their own fantasies.

[1:11:01] And as much as she's made him central to his fantasy,

[1:11:05] to her fantasy, as much as he's been made

[1:11:08] like the main character in her fantasy,

[1:11:10] and she feels like she constantly,

[1:11:12] that she has not actually engaged

[1:11:15] getting to know this person.

[1:11:17] Yeah, earlier she imagines his therapy session

[1:11:20] where he's talking about her, like we mentioned earlier,

[1:11:22] and the way his therapist's office looks,

[1:11:24] the way he's talking about it is so not realistic,

[1:11:28] not realistic to his life.

[1:11:29] He's wearing the white cable knit sweater.

[1:11:34] Yes, no, I did notice that.

[1:11:36] I'm like, I love the fact that her fantasy version of him

[1:11:40] is like, I don't know, Chris Evans in Knives Out

[1:11:43] sort of styled guy.

[1:11:46] No, but I did think that that was like,

[1:11:50] I don't think it's like indicting of her,

[1:11:52] but it's like, it's very easy to lose sight of the reality

[1:11:56] that like, okay, if we're talking about real life,

[1:11:59] like a Woody Allen movie, she's 20, he's 33.

[1:12:05] Basically all Woody Allen.

[1:12:06] Oh, that aspect of like a Woody Allen movie.

[1:12:08] I thought you meant real life is like a Woody Allen movie.

[1:12:09] And I was like, some of them, but you're right.

[1:12:10] The younger man, younger woman, older guy is all of them.

[1:12:12] To say like, we're both like on equal,

[1:12:17] equal maturity should be expected of both of us.

[1:12:21] They shouldn't because they're completely different ages.

[1:12:25] But I did think that like, I don't know,

[1:12:28] that's why I just wanted to pause

[1:12:30] because that moment struck me of like, oh yeah,

[1:12:33] they're making a point that she.

[1:12:35] The movie, yeah.

[1:12:37] Very interesting in the way it shows

[1:12:40] how they're both constructing a fantasy version

[1:12:43] of the other person.

[1:12:43] Yeah.

[1:12:44] And they're both oblivious to the real,

[1:12:46] that they're not even interested

[1:12:48] in exploring the real person.

[1:12:49] You know, that being said, it is a very good point

[1:12:53] that then leads to them fighting over the phone

[1:12:55] until eventually he is strangling her

[1:12:56] and she's hitting him in the head with bottles.

[1:12:58] They knock over a heater in the basement.

[1:13:00] The house catches on fire.

[1:13:01] Which would not happen if he didn't leave

[1:13:03] so many empty bottles around the house

[1:13:05] because he didn't clean up.

[1:13:06] Or plugged in heaters, you know.

[1:13:11] They're trapped in the basement.

[1:13:12] He climbs into a basement drain.

[1:13:14] Which happens because he had real cats.

[1:13:16] He did have cats.

[1:13:18] Remember?

[1:13:19] I was worried.

[1:13:20] Did the cats get away?

[1:13:20] I was worried about the cats.

[1:13:21] But the cats.

[1:13:22] The house got set on fire.

[1:13:23] They don't care about finding cats.

[1:13:24] So.

[1:13:25] Yeah.

[1:13:25] I mean, but that's, but the cats were being like

[1:13:28] kept warm by the heater, I think.

[1:13:30] That's why they were downstairs.

[1:13:33] That seemed to be the.

[1:13:34] Oh, I didn't notice that part of it, but.

[1:13:36] Well, that's what, when she opened the door,

[1:13:38] the cat ran out.

[1:13:39] They ran out.

[1:13:40] Yeah.

[1:13:41] Okay, so look, I'm just,

[1:13:42] I just want those fictional cats to be all right, Hallie.

[1:13:45] That's my main concern at this point in the movie.

[1:13:50] Eventually she does join.

[1:13:51] She's reluctant to follow him into this basement drain.

[1:13:53] But eventually she does.

[1:13:55] The next morning.

[1:13:56] Oh no, then Taylor and her driver arrive

[1:13:58] as the fire trucks get there.

[1:13:59] And they sit through the night.

[1:14:00] The next morning, they're still there sitting on the curb.

[1:14:03] She reveals to him who she is.

[1:14:05] And he's like, oh, nice to meet you.

[1:14:07] You know, there's a tentative rapprochement

[1:14:10] between these two fighting moderators

[1:14:12] once they've met in person.

[1:14:15] He never fought with her.

[1:14:16] He never fought with her.

[1:14:17] No, that's true.

[1:14:18] He was pushed out for assuming a fake identity.

[1:14:21] And the firefighters find Robert and Margot

[1:14:23] passed out in the drain, but alive.

[1:14:26] Days later, Margot and Tyler ride their bicycles

[1:14:29] by the lot where Robert's house is.

[1:14:30] And I couldn't tell if this was,

[1:14:32] having gone to college in New York City

[1:14:34] where people do not mostly ride bicycles around

[1:14:37] unless it's like a city bike,

[1:14:38] which didn't, was not a part of the city

[1:14:40] at the time I was going to school.

[1:14:41] I couldn't tell if them riding bikes over by his house

[1:14:44] was a realistic thing

[1:14:45] because they probably wouldn't have their own car

[1:14:47] at that point, or if it was an unrealistic thing

[1:14:50] that was helpful in making them seem younger.

[1:14:52] Because there is a very kind of like ET quality

[1:14:54] to two young people riding a bike in a suburb.

[1:14:56] So I will say, I'm actually, I feel like I'm,

[1:15:00] I don't know if I'm like implanting memories,

[1:15:02] but this whole layout of this movie,

[1:15:07] having, so I was an undergraduate at Yale

[1:15:13] and this whole physical setup is exactly like New Haven.

[1:15:19] And I'm wondering, it's not supposed to,

[1:15:20] I think it's supposed to be like Michigan.

[1:15:23] It's supposed to be somewhere else,

[1:15:24] but they shot it in New Jersey.

[1:15:26] But it looked, I'm curious to know if like the,

[1:15:30] because like that like projector was on the same,

[1:15:34] the way that they like lined it up on the street

[1:15:37] was like where our, like the old movie theater was.

[1:15:41] Or maybe I'm just like putting myself into the situation,

[1:15:43] but all I did was like, I had a like a cruiser bike

[1:15:48] that I rode around New Haven my whole time there.

[1:15:50] With like the tassels on the handlebars and everything?

[1:15:53] Not tassels, but everything else.

[1:15:55] It was like absolutely. Basket on the front?

[1:15:57] Yes, I had a basket on the front.

[1:15:59] Did ET ever sit in it?

[1:16:01] No.

[1:16:02] Oh, that's too bad. That I know of.

[1:16:04] But even like his house, even his house that,

[1:16:10] ET's house?

[1:16:11] Like, no.

[1:16:12] Even Robert looked very much like a New Haven block

[1:16:19] like of the houses and like the,

[1:16:21] so I was wondering if like,

[1:16:23] oh, I wonder if like anyone who was making this

[1:16:26] was thinking about that or?

[1:16:28] It's possible.

[1:16:28] I mean, if Isabella Rossellini's gonna be a professor

[1:16:30] at a college, it's gonna be one of the best, you know?

[1:16:32] No, but all to say, I don't think it is unrealistic

[1:16:36] because-

[1:16:37] Okay, for them to be on bikes.

[1:16:38] All right, it's just outside my experience.

[1:16:39] Unlike most of the movie, which is very much my experience

[1:16:42] with the older men that I dated.

[1:16:43] So they go by the lot where Robert's house used to be

[1:16:48] and they're like, yeah, his coworkers said he moved away,

[1:16:51] but he might've just told them to say that.

[1:16:53] The girl's still suspicious.

[1:16:54] And later at work, another nerdy creep hits on Margo

[1:16:58] similar to the way Robert did

[1:17:00] and tells her to give him her number.

[1:17:03] And she has this look on her face that's just like,

[1:17:05] here we go again, cut to credits.

[1:17:08] He was in Mad Men, right?

[1:17:10] That guy, that actor?

[1:17:12] He might've been.

[1:17:13] He seemed really familiar.

[1:17:14] I didn't recognize him.

[1:17:15] He seemed familiar.

[1:17:16] I think you might be right.

[1:17:16] I think he was like the young advertiser who,

[1:17:21] remember, Don stole his thing

[1:17:24] and so he's like, you have to hire him.

[1:17:27] Like the, he was sort of like a nepo baby and whatever.

[1:17:36] We'll talk about it later.

[1:17:36] I don't know.

[1:17:37] I mean, you know, you look like.

[1:17:38] Sorry, I have an instant Mad Men recall.

[1:17:44] Yeah, I-M-M-R, it's cool.

[1:17:49] And that's the end of the movie.

[1:17:50] Yeah.

[1:17:51] Yeah, that's the end of the movie.

[1:17:52] And now we're left to puzzle out the, you know,

[1:17:56] like take up the pieces.

[1:17:58] Will she learn from her mistake

[1:17:59] and not give her number to this guy

[1:18:01] who calls her a girl who's never seen the apartment?

[1:18:04] Or will she?

[1:18:05] Or will they get back together?

[1:18:08] Hallie's such a hopeless romantic.

[1:18:11] The listener can't see

[1:18:12] that Hallie had double crossed fingers on that one.

[1:18:14] She's so hoping for it.

[1:18:15] Well, and honestly.

[1:18:16] In that person too.

[1:18:16] I had this like, my babysitter when I was young

[1:18:20] used to make me watch Young and the Restless all the time.

[1:18:23] And I think this was Young and the Restless

[1:18:27] where there was like,

[1:18:29] it was Marty and Todd.

[1:18:31] Todd had raped Marty.

[1:18:33] They were going through the rape trial.

[1:18:35] And then during the rape trial,

[1:18:37] Marty and Todd fell in love as like the defendant.

[1:18:42] And-

[1:18:43] And the plaintiff.

[1:18:44] And the plaintiff.

[1:18:45] Yeah.

[1:18:46] So I was like, is this Marty and Todd?

[1:18:48] Should they be together?

[1:18:50] These are the most unlikely of couples.

[1:18:53] They're canceled.

[1:18:54] Yeah.

[1:18:55] Probably for real.

[1:18:56] I don't know.

[1:18:57] Probably literally.

[1:18:58] Yeah.

[1:18:59] Probably literally.

[1:18:59] The daytime soap world has been shattered.

[1:19:02] Struggling.

[1:19:02] But-

[1:19:03] Yeah.

[1:19:04] So, wow.

[1:19:05] What a-

[1:19:06] What a rollercoaster, you guys.

[1:19:08] What a rollercoaster.

[1:19:10] What a rollercoaster.

[1:19:11] I'm so glad we chose this movie.

[1:19:13] Here's the part-

[1:19:14] Me?

[1:19:15] We have to tease out, you know.

[1:19:16] This is a Hallie Haglund choice.

[1:19:17] It's funny.

[1:19:18] Yeah.

[1:19:19] I gotta say.

[1:19:20] I sent Hallie a list of the most unlikely couples

[1:19:24] in the world.

[1:19:25] And I sent Hallie a list of possibles.

[1:19:27] And Hallie responded in the way that,

[1:19:29] you know that Hallie's like really into,

[1:19:31] like it was just all caps,

[1:19:32] cat person, exclamation point.

[1:19:37] And it was a lot to chew on.

[1:19:40] Like a cat.

[1:19:41] We should.

[1:19:42] Yep.

[1:19:43] Very chewy cats are.

[1:19:45] Let's do our final judgments,

[1:19:47] whether this is a good, bad movie,

[1:19:48] bad, bad movie, or movie you kind of like.

[1:19:50] I have to say, right off the bat,

[1:19:53] I'm not sure I can fit it into our arbitrary.

[1:19:56] We've had a lot of those lately.

[1:19:58] I know.

[1:19:59] But this one.

[1:20:00] Here's the thing, I don't know it was totally successful for me, but I also don't know to

[1:20:10] what degree that is because it really defied my expectations of what an adaptation of this

[1:20:19] story would be.

[1:20:22] And I knew that it was going to go into some weird directions in the third act.

[1:20:27] What I didn't know was that it would still be sort of trying to pump up some of the ambiguity

[1:20:32] in the third act.

[1:20:33] Like I had heard like, oh, you know, he becomes a killer in the third act.

[1:20:38] Yeah, that's what I heard also.

[1:20:39] But I appreciated that it didn't.

[1:20:40] Yes, I agree.

[1:20:42] Yeah, no, it still, I don't know, it found a way, even as it got sort of absurdly heightened,

[1:20:51] it found a way to try and thread a certain needle.

[1:20:58] Like a sewing is women's work, Dan, unacceptable.

[1:21:02] This woman's work.

[1:21:03] Anyway, I don't know what am I saying?

[1:21:06] I don't know.

[1:21:07] I'm saying that I think that I don't know if it's totally successful.

[1:21:11] But if you're interested in this, like it clearly made us have a crazy conversation

[1:21:19] where multiple times I'm like, am I an asshole right now?

[1:21:23] Like I, you know, and that's valuable.

[1:21:26] So if you're interested in it, I'm not going to discourage you from seeing it.

[1:21:29] That's kind of where I'm at.

[1:21:31] That's that's my judgment on this.

[1:21:33] Hallie, what do you guys have to say?

[1:21:36] Yeah, I mean, I feel like I was after I watched it.

[1:21:40] I was like, I know this isn't a good movie, but I don't well.

[1:21:49] I was like, I don't feel like it's a bad, bad movie.

[1:21:53] Like I wasn't bored.

[1:21:54] I wasn't like, this is silly.

[1:21:57] I was like, oh, I'm so glad there that this is a movie that like talks about certain things.

[1:22:04] And so I think I would say I don't know exactly how you guys define your parameters, but I

[1:22:12] would say good, bad.

[1:22:13] Neither do we.

[1:22:14] I would say it's worth watching.

[1:22:17] It's interesting.

[1:22:19] Yes, I think I think I think it doesn't fit into any of our categories.

[1:22:23] I feel like it is not as successful as I would like it to be.

[1:22:26] Also, I think the main actress is very good.

[1:22:30] So that's another we haven't really talked about.

[1:22:32] Oh, yikes.

[1:22:33] Wow.

[1:22:34] Wow.

[1:22:35] I don't know.

[1:22:36] Sorry that I'm being so brave to say that when you guys won't.

[1:22:41] I think that I think it's a movie that is not it's not fully successful, but I think

[1:22:45] it's somewhat successful.

[1:22:46] And it's yeah, I think in some ways it's worth seeing just for the things it's doing and

[1:22:49] it's trying to do.

[1:22:50] And I wish that it was like.

[1:22:52] I don't know, I just I wish it was like a little more.

[1:23:00] Consistent what it's doing.

[1:23:01] And I wish it didn't have quite so many needle drop songs.

[1:23:03] I don't need so much music.

[1:23:04] And you wanted a happy ending with those two crazy kids.

[1:23:06] Yeah.

[1:23:07] I didn't want them to realize.

[1:23:08] Wait a minute.

[1:23:09] But you thought this.

[1:23:10] But I thought this.

[1:23:11] Oh, but I also I think that I was.

[1:23:14] It's one of those movies where I told I both admire them for taking that story to a place

[1:23:20] where it gets it's extreme, but the characters are still there's still not one character

[1:23:25] who's an out and out villain and one who's an out and out hero.

[1:23:27] But I also kind of wish that it didn't end in a place where they were in a basement trying

[1:23:32] to escape from a burning house, even though I know that the metaphor is, you know, that

[1:23:37] if we if we can't come together as two or as or multiple sides and relationships, then,

[1:23:43] you know, our world will fall apart around us.

[1:23:45] You know, we have to understand what we're doing.

[1:23:47] But but also, I just wish I just wish it was I think it wasn't bad.

[1:23:52] I wish it was a little better than it was.

[1:23:53] But didn't you also think that like that last image when they open the drain and the they're

[1:24:02] sort of like curved around each other was supposed to be some reference to like the

[1:24:08] archaeology stuff of it's like kind of like a Pompeii situation of how they're wrapped

[1:24:15] around each other.

[1:24:17] What I really wish is I wish that they were in a yin yang formation.

[1:24:20] I mean, they were or were they?

[1:24:22] I mean, they I don't think they were like, yeah, you know, I mean, they weren't in like

[1:24:25] a 69.

[1:24:28] That's not what I'm talking about.

[1:24:29] No, I mean, Elliot, that was the first thing that I thought of, too, so I guess I'm just

[1:24:34] a little more enlightened than you guys or not sexy enough.

[1:24:40] Yeah. Can you work on your sexiness?

[1:24:43] Can you bring your sexiness up for the podcast a little bit?

[1:24:46] But it's definitely a movie that it's like it's a conversation starter movie, which is

[1:24:50] OK. All it needs to be.

[1:24:51] Can I ask you guys, did you ever feel bored during this movie?

[1:24:56] Well, that's the thing. It's two hours, which I think is too long for a movie.

[1:25:00] But I was not bored by it.

[1:25:03] No, I couldn't tell if I was just like, oh, God, I just like get an excuse to not be

[1:25:09] around my children or like not pay attention.

[1:25:11] Anything that happens.

[1:25:13] So but I was like, yeah, I definitely like wasn't I didn't feel like it was a two hour

[1:25:18] movie. No, I agree.

[1:25:20] I thought it was two hours.

[1:25:21] I think it's a little it could have stuff come from it, cut from it.

[1:25:24] But there was no parts where I was like, oh, come on.

[1:25:27] Like, it feels like it moves relatively quickly, you know.

[1:25:29] So I think so.

[1:25:30] I think that's very successful about it.

[1:25:32] Yeah, it's not that it was not one of these movies where I was like, all right, already

[1:25:35] like just get a room.

[1:25:37] Oh, no, you did get a room.

[1:25:39] Oh, it's pretty awkward.

[1:25:40] Just get out of a room already.

[1:25:41] Like, come on, just burn down.

[1:25:46] All right. Speaking of burning down rooms, capitalism, we got a we got a hawksome

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[1:27:41] Hey, but Dan, you didn't even let me have time to do it.

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[1:29:04] Dan, you know what else the Flop House is sponsored by?

[1:29:06] Tell me.

[1:29:07] It's sponsored by the Flop House.

[1:29:10] Oh, how's that possible?

[1:29:11] Well, because I'm here to tell you we've got some live shows coming up, one in a place

[1:29:16] that's very familiar to us and very dear to our hearts and one in a very new place that

[1:29:20] we're very excited about on March 31st.

[1:29:22] That's right. Easter Sunday.

[1:29:24] We're going to be performing at the Bell House in Brooklyn, our old stomping grounds.

[1:29:28] We love to be there. They're a great place to put on a show.

[1:29:30] And they're just a fun, comfortable place to see a show.

[1:29:34] You don't want to spend Easter with your family?

[1:29:35] I don't want to either. It's not even my religion.

[1:29:37] Go to the Bell House instead.

[1:29:39] At 730 p.m., we'll be doing a show there.

[1:29:41] Dan, can I announce what movie we're doing?

[1:29:43] Yeah, you know what?

[1:29:44] Let's let's do it.

[1:29:45] You know, let's have a little fun.

[1:29:47] OK, we're going to be just we're going to be watching.

[1:29:50] Oh, right. I just saw the name of the movie.

[1:29:52] We're going to be watching the Garbage Pail Kids.

[1:29:53] So not what we're going to be talking about.

[1:29:55] We're not watching the Garbage Pail Kids movie at the show.

[1:29:57] Yeah. If you're confused, if you follow the.

[1:30:00] page I may have said something about Superman Returns you know what we had to

[1:30:03] change them up we're gonna do Garbage Pail Kids for a good reason I don't know

[1:30:08] whether we're announcing that reason but it'll be fun it'll be an exciting

[1:30:10] surprise we may have maybe we'll announce it in the future if we'll have

[1:30:14] to yeah we have to get permission but we we may have a guest who wants to do the

[1:30:20] Garbage Pail Kids movie so you will like it's a guest you'll like a lot it's a

[1:30:25] guest that uh and Dan feel free to tell Alex to cut this out if it's if it's too

[1:30:31] much it's a guest who we gave a blank check to on what movie we would talk

[1:30:35] about at the show see if you can noodle that clue so that's March 31st Easter

[1:30:41] Sunday at the Bell House gonna be very exciting but we also in May are doing

[1:30:45] two shows in one night in merry old England that's right we're gonna be in

[1:30:49] Oxford England two shows at the Oxford Town Hall as part of the st. audio

[1:30:53] podcast festival we're so excited about this we've been wanting to do a show in

[1:30:57] England for a very long time and Oxford's just a beautiful town you know

[1:31:00] it's a beautiful city it's a beautiful venue we do two shows the 7 p.m. show

[1:31:05] the early show we're talking about the Avengers not the Avengers that's the

[1:31:08] good one with the Marvel superheroes know the Avengers with Uma Thurman and

[1:31:12] Ralph Fiennes that is the Hollywood version of the British television show

[1:31:16] the Avengers and at 9 p.m. we're gonna be talking about the most important movie

[1:31:21] in British cinema history Spice World that's right the only Spice Girls movie

[1:31:26] up to this point maybe there'll be another one who knows you know they can

[1:31:30] do another one they could do it all still with us you know yeah I could

[1:31:33] reunite for another movie so March 31st at the Bell House garbage bell kids May

[1:31:39] 24th in Oxford we're doing the Avengers and Spice Girls two separate shows for

[1:31:44] ticket links and more information go to flophousepodcast.com slash events and I

[1:31:50] just want to remind folks max fund drive is coming up this is what funds

[1:31:57] this show that you enjoy I hope still after all these years it is as honestly

[1:32:05] as as television has you know vaporized as a previously lucrative career don't

[1:32:14] hold back Dan flames podcasting has turned out to be the wave of the future

[1:32:20] and for us so we would love your support during max fund drive and I

[1:32:25] just want to do a quick mention of our max fund bonus content for members who

[1:32:31] donate at the $5 level or more what's going to be available for them on day

[1:32:35] one it'll be our spawn LA live show we are putting it up as our bonus content

[1:32:42] you can hear us talk about spawn you can hear my heartfelt farewell to the West

[1:32:47] Coast tour at the end of that show and we're also going to do a three episode

[1:32:53] series on the films of Graydon Clark we already talked uninvited with Gillian

[1:32:59] Flynn on on Maine but we're going to talk about some of his other movies

[1:33:04] joysticks the forbidden dance one other that I can't remember but he's a

[1:33:08] schlockmeister extraordinaire so we're gonna do you know more Boko than ever

[1:33:13] before Stuart probably is gonna do some RPG stuff at some point can't confirm

[1:33:19] that for sure but I know he always loves it so that'll be coming up with max fun

[1:33:24] if there's ever a time to contribute to max fun for the bonus content this is it

[1:33:29] we're gonna be doing a lot and I'm looking for it as much as I'm not

[1:33:32] looking forward to talking about Garbage Pail Kids I'm so looking forward to

[1:33:35] talking about the character of King Vidya in joysticks yeah I'm looking

[1:33:38] forward to watching the character again he's an amazing maybe the greatest

[1:33:40] character in film before we finish with the promo section this has been a long

[1:33:44] one I want to mention I have my Hercules comic book series from dynamite comics

[1:33:48] comes out starting in April my other podcast the 99% invisible breakdown the

[1:33:52] power broker with Roman Mars is currently out now look for I guess power

[1:33:56] broker and my name or go to the 99% visible feed because that's where the

[1:34:00] episodes are max fun drive 2024 max fun Josh what about it it'll be the best

[1:34:13] time for someone to support the podcasts they love oh yeah drive exclusive gifts

[1:34:19] special events and of course all the amazing bonus content yeah so what's on

[1:34:25] your mind check it starts March 18th and it's only two weeks long and check

[1:34:33] well what if they miss it well they should follow max fun on social media

[1:34:39] or sign up for the newsletter at maximum fun org slash newsletter so they don't

[1:34:44] miss it otherwise checkmate who guests on Jordan

[1:34:49] Jesse go I mean we could just list Patton Oswalt Kumail Nanjiani Maria

[1:34:54] Bamford whatever we couldn't remember all of them so we asked my kids famous

[1:35:00] people how famous I don't know pretty famous really tiny celebrities who would

[1:35:10] go on this train wreck instead of it like a big talk show there's just a

[1:35:16] bunch of people on your show Jordan Jesse go a comedy show for grown-ups let

[1:35:28] us move on to letters from listeners listeners like you this one this first

[1:35:35] one this list or this letter I'm confused his first letter Oh from where

[1:35:40] he's let's just like you this letter it but not me from not you specifically oh

[1:35:46] but but like you oh this letter is from Hanuman last or first name withheld

[1:35:53] depending on which one it's unclear which one Hanuman is but Hanuman writes

[1:35:59] as a mechanic I find the dead car trope poorly thought out in most movies the

[1:36:06] lights are always on brighter than any real headlights the door dingers digging

[1:36:10] away but it never starts so my question is do writers do real-life research on

[1:36:16] the things they're writing about and we've got three television writers here

[1:36:23] you can't take that away from us no you cannot even the way I wrote TV you can't

[1:36:28] take that away from me yeah even if we're not currently writing for

[1:36:33] television but who is days deny that we have all three written for television so

[1:36:38] as three writers do we do research this is the thing that we do question mark I

[1:36:45] mean I have an answer for this but okay Hallie do you do research when you're

[1:36:49] writing you do right you do a lot of research I mean I mean you led to Las

[1:36:54] Vegas for it for an elderly beauty contest for research right yes so I do

[1:37:00] do research and I often feel like the research I do is insufficient because

[1:37:08] you know here we are listen to podcasts were so I feel like when I was a little

[1:37:16] bit younger and I would listen to I like had this like you know I would listen to

[1:37:24] like culture podcasts occasionally when this whole crew was writing for the

[1:37:31] daily show there would be times where I've heard of it there would you know

[1:37:36] there would be moments where like it's John's last show it's Trevor's first

[1:37:40] show it's Trevor's and and it was like listening to podcasts that I really

[1:37:49] trust respect opinions that I admire and then I would hear them talking about

[1:37:58] something that like I knew so deeply about and I would be like oh you guys

[1:38:04] like I have no yeah you're talking about and sometimes it would be like well I

[1:38:10] don't usually watch late night but like I tuned in for this episode and I would

[1:38:14] be so angry I would be like well then you don't know what the fuck you're

[1:38:20] talking about also say I understand both feeling like I am self-conscious when I

[1:38:30] write things about like doing research but that gets continually magnified

[1:38:37] about like how little you know like right now I'm saying I was when people

[1:38:44] on podcasts talk about late night I was like you guys have no idea what the fuck

[1:38:49] you're talking about but the whole format of late night or specifically

[1:38:54] daily show stuff that we did was like hey guys catch up with this like

[1:39:02] presidential situation that's melting down in Brazil and then let's like have

[1:39:07] a really strong opinion about it and so it was like all right yeah I will I'll

[1:39:14] engage and I care a lot and I'll read all this stuff but also how could I

[1:39:20] possibly know everything that anyone who really cared about that issue I mean I'm

[1:39:27] sure any yeah did was listening to it and being like all right well there's

[1:39:31] like a lot more nuance to this situation you guys so you don't know what you're

[1:39:35] talking about so I would say yes I do do research I'm self-conscious about not

[1:39:44] doing research but I think if it's something that you really care about and

[1:39:49] you or maybe this is the definition of really good writing when you watch

[1:39:57] something and you don't feel alienated by it

[1:40:00] because it's something you both care about

[1:40:02] and don't feel like the people who wrote it

[1:40:04] did not know what the fuck they were talking about,

[1:40:06] then that's good writing.

[1:40:08] But I also think, yes, I do a lot of research,

[1:40:11] I care a lot,

[1:40:14] but sometimes I wonder if it's the thing you care about most

[1:40:21] maybe you shouldn't be watching a TV show about it.

[1:40:27] I think there's some truth to that

[1:40:29] because definitely I do research for things,

[1:40:31] but there comes so many times

[1:40:33] when you're writing something and you're like,

[1:40:34] I know from my research this is not the way

[1:40:36] that it would work,

[1:40:38] but the story is what's important here

[1:40:40] and not getting these facts exactly right.

[1:40:43] The same way I got so mad watching Manc,

[1:40:45] there's so many times in that

[1:40:46] where there are things where I'm like,

[1:40:47] well, they can't be talking about the wolf, man,

[1:40:48] that movie didn't come out yet.

[1:40:49] But then I'm like, nobody cares about this but me really,

[1:40:52] and it gets in the way of, the story wins.

[1:40:55] When it's between facts and the story,

[1:40:57] often it's the story that wins.

[1:40:58] Well, I can't tell you,

[1:41:00] literally nobody remembers Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip

[1:41:04] except for me and everyone that I talk to every day.

[1:41:09] It literally is a reference point

[1:41:11] every second of the day that I,

[1:41:14] so it's just like when it's your thing,

[1:41:18] yeah, nobody knows how to recreate it.

[1:41:23] Now, that's why I wanted to agree with Hallie

[1:41:25] on the point of, yeah,

[1:41:27] if you are intimately familiar with the thing,

[1:41:30] you're always gonna be disappointed

[1:41:32] by the way it is depicted.

[1:41:33] I would hear the same sorts of assessments of like,

[1:41:38] oh, they clearly did this on The Daily Show because of this,

[1:41:40] and I'm like, you have no fucking idea,

[1:41:42] you have a bullshit understanding.

[1:41:45] And that's showbiz,

[1:41:47] a thing that's widely reported about,

[1:41:49] so people have this idea that they understand it.

[1:41:53] And even so, they're wrong, but that's fine.

[1:41:58] Why should you know about it if it's not your thing?

[1:42:01] And likewise, I agree with Elliott.

[1:42:03] I'm writing a screenplay right now that,

[1:42:06] like most screenplays will probably remain unproduced,

[1:42:10] but among other things, for instance,

[1:42:12] I'm looking into the workings of chimneys.

[1:42:15] I'm like, okay, does a chimney work like this?

[1:42:18] Maybe not, but it works close enough

[1:42:21] that for my story, I will write it like this

[1:42:24] and 90% of people won't give a shit.

[1:42:27] You know, so you have to-

[1:42:28] That is a dark re-imagining of Bert from Mary Poppins,

[1:42:30] and I can't wait to see it.

[1:42:33] Bert, exclamation point.

[1:42:35] But like, no, it's true.

[1:42:36] Like at a certain point, you have to make that judgment.

[1:42:39] Like, does this serve the writing

[1:42:42] that it is 100% accurate?

[1:42:44] Well, then maybe it's not as important.

[1:42:46] But I also don't think it's like a decision a lot of times.

[1:42:50] I think a lot of times you think you do understand.

[1:42:53] And so you're just like, I mean, I feel like-

[1:42:56] Well, that's the other side.

[1:42:57] Yeah, that it's just like, oh yeah, I get this, so.

[1:43:00] I mean, I think that's more the reality

[1:43:04] than like making a conscious decision

[1:43:07] to not represent something accurately.

[1:43:09] I think it's like, oh, well, I read about something.

[1:43:12] I mean, are you kidding me?

[1:43:14] You guys, when we worked on The Daily Show,

[1:43:16] you didn't feel like 100% like,

[1:43:20] oh, I get this, yeah, this is wrong, this is right.

[1:43:22] I mean, The Daily Show is a special case.

[1:43:23] I was telling you more about like movies,

[1:43:24] but in The Daily Show, very much so, yeah, yeah.

[1:43:26] In The Daily Show, you'd also get a lot of people

[1:43:27] who were like, I read an article about this this morning.

[1:43:30] So yeah, I know everything about this.

[1:43:31] So I'm an expert.

[1:43:32] Yeah.

[1:43:33] I remember one day where I was like,

[1:43:37] let's do this headline tomorrow

[1:43:38] because I'm gonna need to catch up

[1:43:40] on the Brazilian governmental meltdown

[1:43:46] that's happening right now

[1:43:47] and has been happening for the last 50 years, sorry.

[1:43:50] Like, let me step, and it's like, yeah, no.

[1:43:54] I get people's frustration with that.

[1:43:59] And I think there's also-

[1:44:00] No, I just had a flashback to the level

[1:44:03] of immediate expertise that was expected

[1:44:08] during like my early years there,

[1:44:10] your like mid-years there.

[1:44:12] Yeah, and it was like, oh, okay.

[1:44:16] I'll write a financial headline today.

[1:44:20] Also-

[1:44:22] I guess I understand that now.

[1:44:24] I have made very unwise investments.

[1:44:27] Yeah.

[1:44:29] Just taking it back to cars for a moment.

[1:44:31] I think there's also times when a thing is done wrong

[1:44:34] in a movie or a TV show because-

[1:44:35] Lightning McQueen is totally an egg.

[1:44:37] He doesn't have eyes.

[1:44:38] The cars don't really have eyes.

[1:44:39] He wouldn't say ka-chow.

[1:44:40] I've never heard a car say ka-chow in my life.

[1:44:44] There's only one town where cars have taken over

[1:44:47] and kicked the people out

[1:44:48] and it's actually not a desert town.

[1:44:49] That's what they get wrong.

[1:44:50] There have been definitely times

[1:44:51] I've been working on something

[1:44:52] where I've seen something happen where it's like,

[1:44:53] well, that's not how it would happen.

[1:44:54] And someone says, yeah,

[1:44:55] but that's how the audience thinks it happens.

[1:44:58] And so if a car goes dead on the highway

[1:45:00] and they open the door,

[1:45:01] I think there's like this assumption

[1:45:03] on the part of the person watching it.

[1:45:04] Oh yeah, when a car door opens, it makes that ding sound.

[1:45:06] Or like, yeah, your headlights are still on.

[1:45:09] And it's-

[1:45:10] I mean, that's like the worst example

[1:45:11] because everybody drives cars.

[1:45:14] It's not like-

[1:45:16] No, but-

[1:45:16] Yeah, that's true.

[1:45:17] But I think for a lot of people who,

[1:45:19] there are things like that though,

[1:45:20] where it's like, you drive a car,

[1:45:21] but maybe you haven't been in a car that goes dead

[1:45:24] in the middle of the road.

[1:45:24] That's the worst example, Ali.

[1:45:26] Have you driven a car like this?

[1:45:29] To our listener, I apologize.

[1:45:30] Hallie has really had to-

[1:45:31] Dan, go to the next question.

[1:45:32] Okay.

[1:45:33] This one is from Patrick,

[1:45:35] last name withheld from the original cast podcast.

[1:45:38] I'm just kidding.

[1:45:39] You can try and figure out which Patrick that is.

[1:45:42] Patrick says,

[1:45:43] hey guys, I just finished watching Ballistic X vs. Sephir

[1:45:47] and prep for your next episode of Flop TV

[1:45:50] so that you can date this to when that would have been.

[1:45:52] I'm married, Dan.

[1:45:53] I don't have to date a letter.

[1:45:54] Yeah, you don't have to, but you could.

[1:45:57] But if I wanted to enter a web of seduction and deceit.

[1:46:00] A madam web.

[1:46:02] And I had to give,

[1:46:04] we're going to watch that at some point.

[1:46:06] I was watching, sorry.

[1:46:08] I just, let me start over again.

[1:46:09] I just finished watching Ballistic X vs. Sephir

[1:46:12] and prep for your next episode of Flop TV.

[1:46:14] And I had to give a piece of trivia you may not know.

[1:46:18] During the overwrought finale,

[1:46:20] I thought the closing song, Anytime,

[1:46:23] by Sam Waters and Luis Bianchiello

[1:46:30] performed by Mary Griffin sounded familiar.

[1:46:33] So I looked up where I thought it was from and I was right.

[1:46:35] It was also featured in the film

[1:46:37] from Justin to Kelly during the emotional climax

[1:46:41] of the film as a duet between the titular leads,

[1:46:44] which leads to my question.

[1:46:45] Has there ever been a needle drop song

[1:46:47] so strongly identified in your head with one film

[1:46:51] that you cannot help but think of that film

[1:46:54] when you hear it, Patrick, Last Name Withheld Again

[1:46:57] from the original cast podcast.

[1:46:59] I mean, the thing is like,

[1:47:02] I mean, obviously there's some needle drops

[1:47:04] that are associated so closely with one movie.

[1:47:09] It's hard to hear Stuck In The Middle With You

[1:47:11] without thinking about the rest of the point of this.

[1:47:12] That was the number one with a bullet.

[1:47:15] You cannot think of Stuck In The Middle With You

[1:47:17] without thinking of someone's ear being severed.

[1:47:20] Just as Steeler's Wheel.

[1:47:23] Intended with the song, yeah.

[1:47:25] Originally.

[1:47:26] I don't know if there are other ones that people have,

[1:47:29] but that is.

[1:47:31] I was trying to think of an answer for this one,

[1:47:32] but it's like, these are the things that came to mind.

[1:47:34] One is, I think they play Sweet Home Alabama

[1:47:37] when we're introduced to Killer Croc

[1:47:38] in the movie Suicide Squad,

[1:47:40] and now I associate that song with that scene,

[1:47:43] or with that movie at least.

[1:47:44] Two was, when I hear the song All Along The Watchtower,

[1:47:47] the Jimi Hendrix version,

[1:47:49] I always think of like Vietnam helicopters,

[1:47:52] and I don't know a movie that actually does that.

[1:47:54] There must be one,

[1:47:55] but I don't know what it is or anything.

[1:47:57] And the third is, similar to Patrick's experience,

[1:48:01] I was watching the movie Gunga Din years ago,

[1:48:05] the old 30s Gunga Din,

[1:48:06] and there was a music cue in it,

[1:48:08] and I'm like, I've heard that song before.

[1:48:09] I've heard that music cue.

[1:48:11] And dug through my VHS tapes,

[1:48:13] because this is how long ago this was,

[1:48:14] and put in Citizen Kane,

[1:48:17] and I realized they had reused that cue

[1:48:19] in the newsreel section of Citizen Kane,

[1:48:20] which is all made up of music

[1:48:22] that they had in the RKO Library,

[1:48:24] and it was one of those moments where it was like,

[1:48:25] I've heard this little tiny bit of music before,

[1:48:28] and it was very gratifying to find where it came from.

[1:48:31] What movie is it doing that Vietnam helicopters to?

[1:48:36] Well, did I ever tell you,

[1:48:37] I wanted to do a sketch.

[1:48:39] I never wrote it,

[1:48:40] but it was gonna be just the most stereotypical music cues,

[1:48:45] where it would be someone narrating,

[1:48:47] it was when I was in Vietnam,

[1:48:48] and like, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do.

[1:48:52] Or maybe it was when I was stationed in Hong Kong.

[1:48:55] Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da.

[1:48:59] I think it was during World War II.

[1:49:02] Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da.

[1:49:04] I was in Italy.

[1:49:05] Funicula, funicula, funicula.

[1:49:07] Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da.

[1:49:10] Yeah.

[1:49:11] That's funny.

[1:49:12] You should have written that.

[1:49:13] Thanks.

[1:49:14] There's a lot of things I should have written.

[1:49:15] That's true.

[1:49:16] Hallie, what's your answer to this question?

[1:49:18] Wow, so I was like, oh, it's just gonna be so cliche,

[1:49:22] but then I was like, as you're talking,

[1:49:24] I'm like, oh, not at all,

[1:49:27] because we're from different worlds.

[1:49:30] Mm-hmm.

[1:49:31] Yeah, what is it?

[1:49:32] It's a different world from where you come from, Hallie.

[1:49:34] I was thinking about like, and then he kissed me,

[1:49:37] because that's such like an adventures in babysitting.

[1:49:40] From adventures in babysitting.

[1:49:42] Exactly.

[1:49:43] Actually, you know what?

[1:49:44] That's, that reminds, so maybe the one

[1:49:46] that I think of the most in this way,

[1:49:47] which that reminded me of is, is at the beginning.

[1:49:50] Be my baby?

[1:49:51] No, well, the beginning of Gremlins.

[1:49:52] Christmas, da, da, da, da.

[1:49:54] A song that has nothing else to do,

[1:49:56] but with Gremlins, other than it's at Christmas.

[1:49:58] But whenever I hear that song, I think of Gremlins.

[1:50:00] Yeah, yeah, no, I mean like that's a wonderful Christmas song that has many other associations, but you're right

[1:50:07] Forever be grim ones to us. Hallie. Did you have any other ones? That's a good example. I was thinking of like

[1:50:14] They'll like be my be my be my little baby bird dirty dancing

[1:50:21] Yeah, that's for dirty dancing. The one I think of is hello lover boy, you know

[1:50:25] Yeah, I know but that's like and yeah time of my life. There's a lot of them in dirty

[1:50:30] Yeah, but I think I mean that was literally the first for dirty dancing. What's the time of my life?

[1:50:37] Patrick Swayze sings he sings on hungry eyes, and I think he sings time of my life, too

[1:50:43] Well time I left so if you've watched the documentary that I watched about the making of dirty dancing

[1:50:47] I guess it wasn't written for dirty dancing

[1:50:49] But it was original to it like they went through a lot of songs that had been

[1:50:52] That were submitted to be the song for dirty dancing, you know

[1:50:55] They were looking through songs that were from music publishers that hadn't been released yet, I guess but and there's also a

[1:51:01] She's like the wind. Is that the

[1:51:04] He's saying that

[1:51:07] Yeah, yeah

[1:51:09] Dirty dancing. What a great soundtrack for a great soundtrack. Yeah hits of the 50s 80s and today. Yeah, not today, but

[1:51:22] They had a few Olivia Rodrigo, too, so yeah, but what they're dancing it's like Britney, bitch

[1:51:27] Whatever that song is that Hallie says everybody knows but I didn't know it

[1:51:35] What all right

[1:51:36] Elliot you just text SARB and ask if she knows I it would not surprise me at all if SARB knows it

[1:51:43] I wouldn't surprise most people know it. I don't

[1:51:46] Yeah, okay. She'll get mad. I'm not knowing it our friend Lauren server previously

[1:51:52] Mentioned on the podcast also texting me recently about madam web and how

[1:51:58] Much fun. We're gonna have when we cover it on the flop. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah

[1:52:02] Let's move on to

[1:52:05] recommendations of movies we've seen that we would recommend I

[1:52:09] Mean, you know, maybe along with cat cat person if you like, you know, I can't people I was I was so hard

[1:52:16] Keep almost calling it cat people. Yeah

[1:52:18] Yeah, I mean, well there's you know, there's two movies called cat people there's only this one called cat person and first of the cat people

[1:52:25] Yeah, there you go

[1:52:27] I'm gonna recommend I watched on

[1:52:31] Valentine's Day

[1:52:34] Waitress the musical Audrey and I dialed it up on you know, your your VOD

[1:52:44] No, like waitress is a film that

[1:52:48] Brings up a lot because

[1:52:50] You know, it's a film that I think has this kind of like weirdly long tail

[1:52:54] it's like a

[1:52:56] Sweet movie a movie with a lot of qualities like it's not it has like a couple of like maybe like flaws

[1:53:02] It's not quite like fully formed. But unfortunately

[1:53:05] Adrian Shelley the the writer-director, you know

[1:53:10] Sad story I will not repeat it look it up if you want to find out it's it's very sad. She she passed away

[1:53:18] She was killed

[1:53:20] You're pretty close to repeating the story

[1:53:24] Yeah, but she made this movie waitress that

[1:53:28] was was a lot of

[1:53:30] fun a lot of bittersweet

[1:53:33] Carrie Russell is very great in it Nathan Fillion and then it has the second life as a musical that Sara Bareilles did and

[1:53:41] I had never seen it on Broadway, but they have done this, you know

[1:53:45] Broadway

[1:53:47] Filming of it that I think they did actually during kovat. They brought the cast back and

[1:53:54] for a limited time and did this

[1:53:57] filming and it was

[1:53:59] had a

[1:54:02] Small theatrical release where it over performed greatly like everyone was surprised how well it did

[1:54:08] And it is just a really sweet

[1:54:12] Musical like all of the qualities of the film are there plus then you've got

[1:54:16] These great songs that are very kind of nakedly emotional. I was talking to Elliot when we're on our West Coast tour

[1:54:23] I saw

[1:54:24] the back to the future musical because we got discount tickets and

[1:54:27] My friend Mary like loves back to the future like we're gonna go we don't care whether it's good or bad

[1:54:31] We're gonna see it and it was like fun and dumb and like there's some good stuff some bad stuff

[1:54:36] but like the songs were just so

[1:54:39] terrible

[1:54:40] But but this I only bring it up in contrast to like waitress where I felt all the songs like really

[1:54:47] were

[1:54:48] emotional and

[1:54:50] sweet and and and

[1:54:53] Kind of gutting some of them and it was just a really lovely filming of this musical if I had any critique

[1:55:00] it was that I think that the

[1:55:03] shooting of it gets a little

[1:55:06] Frantic sometimes like I think that sometimes when you're shooting a

[1:55:11] Theatrical show the people filming it thinks like we got a jazz this up

[1:55:16] so it doesn't feel like we're just shooting a play or a musical but

[1:55:21] You know, it's blocked to be seen from the front

[1:55:24] it's blocked so you like sit in a seat and stationary watch it happen and some of these

[1:55:30] camera moves kind of fucked with that a little bit but

[1:55:34] Other than that, I would totally recommend it. I had a I had a great time watching it. What do you want to recommend Elliot?

[1:55:41] Why don't Hallie? Why don't you go first?

[1:55:45] Become clear when I go. Okay. I'm sorry. I would have been more

[1:55:53] But you were so captivated by what Dan was saying about

[1:56:04] Honestly, yeah

[1:56:10] Sorry, I'm so sorry

[1:56:13] That's right, that's fine

[1:56:16] Busy. Okay the busy life. Yeah, I

[1:56:19] Would bring I only want to bring something with sincerity and I got nothing. So Elliot

[1:56:27] All right, I'll go

[1:56:28] So the I mentioned at the top of the show that

[1:56:31] Hallie and Dan very graciously kind of scrambled their schedules so we could record these episodes

[1:56:36] The reason for that is yesterday I got the news and I'd like to talk about this even though it's sad because it's something that

[1:56:41] I want to talk about. Yeah, I got the news that my grandmother had passed away

[1:56:45] my grandmother Barbara Purcell who was

[1:56:48] Very important person to me someone who was very much the matriarch of my family and a very strong

[1:56:54] Person a strong personality and a pioneer in the CD-ROM indexing world of the 1990s

[1:57:01] and who

[1:57:03] to to to make myself the protagonist of the story in a way that cat person should teach me not to someone who

[1:57:09] She brought so many things into the life of and she's the person who introduced me to theater

[1:57:14] She's the person introduced me to many of the types of movies. I like the most

[1:57:18] She introduced me to the opera. She introduced me to fine art. She introduced me to

[1:57:22] Fine music, you know, she was someone who

[1:57:24] Lived the kind of stereotypical life of a New York

[1:57:28] sophisticated liberal Jewish lady, but lived it very well and

[1:57:33] She was 95 years old and she she just passed away yesterday as we're recording this and so

[1:57:39] We're recording this early because I have to go home for for the memorial

[1:57:43] But uh, I wanted to recommend two movies

[1:57:46] One is her favorite movie, which was one two three the Billy Wilder comedy from 1961

[1:57:52] This is James Cagney's last starring role

[1:57:54] where he is the executive who's in charge of the coca-cola office in West Berlin and

[1:58:00] the head of the company sends his daughter to be watched there because she's in love with somebody that that her dad doesn't like and

[1:58:08] unfortunately, it soon turns out that she is sneaking across the border into East Berlin to

[1:58:13] Be romanced by a communist and ends up pregnant and he has to figure out how to solve this problem of

[1:58:18] how does he turn the a

[1:58:20] pregnancy by East Berlin communist into a marriage with a West Berlin capitalist basically and it's a really funny farce and it's one that

[1:58:27] my grandmother

[1:58:29] Was a big fan of and made sure I watched multiple times

[1:58:34] It was just a bit it's I can't ever think about it without think about her

[1:58:37] And so she's someone who I just want to make sure her memory was known better

[1:58:42] She is a prolific letter writer to the New York Times

[1:58:45] So if you google her a lot of what comes up is letters, she wrote to the Times

[1:58:49] criticizing or complaining

[1:58:51] and

[1:58:52] the first time when I for years I wrote a

[1:58:55] Weekly column weekly humor column in a free newspaper called Metro and I'll forget after the first column ran

[1:59:01] My editor was so excited. They were like we already got a letter about your column

[1:59:05] And it was like I loved Ellie Cailin's cockeyed view of the world signed Barbara Purcell and they had no idea

[1:59:10] She has a different last name. They didn't know if my grandmother that was writing in but just she was a very important person

[1:59:15] I've been spending the past two days kind of like, you know thinking about her when I haven't been helping my son with his

[1:59:21] California missions project which has been a huge weight on everybody's souls, but the I've been thinking about her a lot and

[1:59:30] Something that kind of helped me with thinking about it was not just thinking about all the things that she brought into my life

[1:59:35] She's you know, she introduced me to the Marx Brothers. She introduced me to Monty Python and John Cleese's comedy

[1:59:40] she introduced me to Preston Sturgis all these things that are very very, you know important to the point of almost sacred to me and

[1:59:46] I was watching this movie last night that I finished this movie the river

[1:59:52] Jean Renoir's

[1:59:54] Movie for 1951 that might be his first color movie. I'm not sure but it's about a British family and

[2:00:00] and the kind of thing that the movie keeps coming back to

[2:00:06] is this kind of symbol of the river

[2:00:08] as a thing that is eternal.

[2:00:10] And the way that events cycle through people's lives

[2:00:14] and birth follows death and death follows birth.

[2:00:16] And it's a very, it's funny,

[2:00:18] it's a strangely complimentary movie to Cat Person

[2:00:22] because it's also about a young woman

[2:00:23] who has a crush on an older man

[2:00:25] that is obviously unworkable, you know,

[2:00:27] but it's much more innocent in some ways

[2:00:29] and more mature in others.

[2:00:31] And at the end of it,

[2:00:34] there's this kind of voiceover narration

[2:00:37] where they're talking about

[2:00:39] kind of the eternal quality of these cycles.

[2:00:40] And it was just very moving for me at the moment.

[2:00:42] So I was all a teary.

[2:00:44] And so I thought I would recommend those two movies.

[2:00:46] One, two, three, which is just like a silly movie.

[2:00:48] Like it's a real farce of a movie

[2:00:50] and super fast moving and super silly,

[2:00:52] which was her favorite film.

[2:00:53] And The River,

[2:00:55] which just kind of helped me through that moment.

[2:00:57] And recording this episode

[2:00:58] helped me through that moment too.

[2:00:59] So I really appreciate Dan and Hallie,

[2:01:01] you being there for me.

[2:01:03] Thanks.

[2:01:03] Elliott, anyone who made you is the best.

[2:01:08] Oh, thanks, Hallie.

[2:01:09] It's very sweet.

[2:01:10] That's nice.

[2:01:11] What's to say after that?

[2:01:13] Well, we need to sign off.

[2:01:16] I know that.

[2:01:19] If you have it in your heart,

[2:01:21] go and give us a good review on iTunes.

[2:01:25] There were a couple of bad reviews that we got.

[2:01:29] Unacceptable.

[2:01:30] For political reasons that made me very sad.

[2:01:33] So if you want to cancel out their vote,

[2:01:37] do it.

[2:01:38] Go to iTunes, give us a five star review,

[2:01:42] make them pay.

[2:01:44] And if you like podcasts,

[2:01:46] if you like the sort of shenanigans,

[2:01:49] go to Maximum Fun, MaximumFun.org.

[2:01:52] We got a lot of great podcasts over there on our network.

[2:01:55] Again, we're going to do the drive pretty soon.

[2:01:58] So we'll be doing some special stuff

[2:02:00] with some special guests.

[2:02:02] Look forward to that.

[2:02:05] And thank you to our-

[2:02:06] Hallie raised her hand as if she was one of the special guests.

[2:02:09] Sorry, Hallie.

[2:02:10] She is.

[2:02:12] She's a special star.

[2:02:13] She's more than a special guest.

[2:02:14] She's ramping up to, no, she's-

[2:02:16] She's a member of the family, yeah.

[2:02:18] Yeah.

[2:02:19] When you're here, you're family.

[2:02:20] And Hallie is first among those.

[2:02:25] But also I would like to thank our producer and editor,

[2:02:29] Alex Smith.

[2:02:30] He goes by the name HowlDotty on various socials.

[2:02:34] You can find podcasts and Twitch streams

[2:02:37] and all sorts of things done by him.

[2:02:39] Music.

[2:02:40] He is a very creative man in his own right

[2:02:43] on top of helping us.

[2:02:44] So look his stuff up.

[2:02:47] And that's it.

[2:02:48] For The Flophouse, I've been Dan McCoy.

[2:02:51] I've been Ellie Kalen.

[2:02:52] I have been Hallie Heidkamp.

[2:02:57] Good night.

[2:02:59] Unless you're listening to this in the morning,

[2:03:00] in which case, good morning.

[2:03:10] I was playing Uno with Sammy today

[2:03:12] and every single color that we put down,

[2:03:15] I'm yellow.

[2:03:16] WD, WD, WD.

[2:03:19] It was great.

[2:03:20] Daniel hates it so much.

[2:03:21] Yeah, that's what I was about to say.

[2:03:22] Daniel must hate it.

[2:03:23] Okay.

[2:03:26] Maximum fun.

[2:03:28] A worker-owned network.

[2:03:29] Of artists-owned shows.

[2:03:31] Supported.

[2:03:32] Directly.

[2:03:32] By you.

Ep. #419 - Cat Person, with Hallie Haglund

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