FH Mini 125 - Cinematic Mechanics

[0:00] Welcome, one and all, to another episode of The Flophouse, specifically this week, it's

[0:10] a Flophouse Mini.

[0:12] What is a Flophouse Mini?

[0:13] Well, I'm so glad you asked.

[0:14] A Flophouse Maxi, you might say, is when we watch a bad movie and then we talk about it.

[0:19] A Flophouse Maxi Pad is, you know, just for that time of day.

[0:22] And Flophouse Minis...

[0:23] I didn't need to do that part.

[0:24] It's certainly not so early in the episode.

[0:27] And Flophouse Minis are when we take a little time to talk about...

[0:30] Click, drag and drop, delete.

[0:32] When we take some time to do whatever we want.

[0:34] So we didn't watch a specific movie for this episode, but we're going to have a specific

[0:37] talk about a specific thing.

[0:39] And today, it's another episode of everyone's favorite Flophouse Mini that is being introduced

[0:44] this time.

[0:45] It's another episode of Cinematic Mechanic.

[0:48] That's right, Cinematic Mechanic, the Flophouse Mini, where we take a movie that maybe has

[0:52] machines in it, and we get under the hood of this lemon and tinker with it to make it

[0:56] into a movie that maybe, just maybe, would work.

[0:59] Today, we're in the middle of an unofficial theme stretch.

[1:03] Obviously, our MaxFunDrive ended.

[1:05] Thank you so much, everybody, for the pledges you made during MaxFunDrive.

[1:08] We really appreciate it.

[1:09] It's going to keep the podcast going.

[1:11] It means we can put the time and the effort and the energy into it that we really want

[1:14] to.

[1:15] And it means that we're going to keep going into your ears and then into your brain and

[1:18] then to your memories for, hopefully, for another year at least, and hopefully many

[1:22] years to come after that.

[1:23] First, I want to say thank you very much for your pledges during MaxFunDrive.

[1:28] If you didn't pledge, you can still go to MaxMunFun.org slash join.

[1:32] You can still join when it's not the drive, you know.

[1:34] Please do.

[1:35] Why not?

[1:36] Anyway, we had our run of movies without Spider-Man in them, which ended with Heart Beeps.

[1:40] That was last week.

[1:41] Next week, we're going to be watching The Electric State.

[1:43] So we kind of segued into a robots theme month, this kind of secret theme month of robots.

[1:49] And I want to talk about robot movies.

[1:51] Having just watched Heart Beeps, I want to say, let's get into Heart Beeps and cinematic

[1:57] mechanic that thing, as we do every time we become cinematic mechanics, and make this

[2:01] a good movie about robots.

[2:02] So Dan, Stu, the first thing I want to talk about is what makes a good movie robot?

[2:09] Like what is a good robot for movies?

[2:11] But also, what's a good robot movie?

[2:13] Because those are not the same things, you know.

[2:15] A robot movie and a movie robot, the best movie robots are not necessarily in the best

[2:19] robot movies.

[2:21] Because let's talk about it.

[2:22] What do you think are the best robot movies, by which I mean the best movies with robots

[2:25] in them?

[2:26] Not Robot in the Family.

[2:27] Not Robot in the Family, which is surprisingly like Heart Beeps.

[2:30] And I feel like we should have compared the two.

[2:33] They're both about kind of goldish colored robots that have incredibly annoying voices.

[2:38] So there's like, there's, you know, organic material covering the Terminator frame.

[2:44] But the Terminators are essentially robots, right?

[2:47] Without the flesh on them.

[2:48] They're basically robots.

[2:49] Yeah.

[2:50] So I'd go with, those are some great robot movies.

[2:53] I am a big lover of AI, even though some people don't like it quite as much.

[2:58] Oh, Dan making a controversial statement.

[3:00] He loves AI.

[3:01] Not the actual thing in the world, Dan.

[3:02] He wants it to replace the real writers.

[3:03] He just thinks it's better than normal art.

[3:05] The Spielberg movie.

[3:06] You mean AI colon artificial intelligence.

[3:08] That one.

[3:09] We have to call it that.

[3:10] Yeah.

[3:11] Yeah.

[3:12] Some other ones.

[3:13] Heart Beeps tries and fails to do what WALL-E did very well.

[3:15] WALL-E.

[3:16] That's an obvious one.

[3:17] Top robot movie.

[3:18] I'm not going to.

[3:19] Another great movie about robots in love.

[3:20] I'm going to say, okay, movie.

[3:22] I like it better than Stuart.

[3:24] The dance scene is really great.

[3:27] I would say the Iron Giant is a great robot movie.

[3:30] That's about a different kind of love between friends, you know.

[3:33] Sure.

[3:34] Then you've got, but then you've got your movies like.

[3:35] Batteries not included.

[3:37] I don't know.

[3:38] Are you fucking kidding me about this shit, guys?

[3:43] It's not a very good movie.

[3:44] They think he's a burner.

[3:45] One day, I want you to do a presentation about best almost burgers in movies.

[3:53] Did you ever do that?

[3:54] Everybody wants some.

[3:55] Everybody wants some burgers.

[3:56] Yeah.

[3:57] This is going to lead into, I think, the second category where I will argue that like the

[4:02] short circuit movies aren't necessarily great robot movies, but they have a great robot.

[4:08] So that's what I want to talk about.

[4:09] So because there are some movies that are also great movies that have a robot in them

[4:12] that I don't consider robot movies.

[4:14] Movies like The Day the Earth Stood Still has a great robot in it.

[4:17] Don't consider that a robot movie.

[4:19] Wizard of Oz.

[4:20] The Tin Man's basically a robot, right?

[4:22] Forbidden Planet.

[4:23] Forbidden Planet.

[4:24] That's got a great robot.

[4:25] I think we can all agree the robot in Interstellar is incredible.

[4:28] Yes.

[4:29] They don't love that movie.

[4:31] And as Rocky IV, of course, is the is the combination of both.

[4:33] It's a great movie with a great robot in it.

[4:36] It's not a great robot movie.

[4:38] No, it's not a great robot movie.

[4:40] Exactly.

[4:41] So what makes a great movie?

[4:42] What is the difference between a great movie with a robot in it?

[4:44] It would have been crazy if in the end, like in the final bout in Rocky IV, he like, Rocky's

[4:51] losing and he looks over and the little robot's there and he's like, you can do it?

[4:56] And he's like, I can do it.

[4:58] That would have been amazing.

[5:00] So here's what you say, Dan, because then I'm going to try to answer the question you're

[5:05] asking.

[5:06] Well, what makes a movie a great robot movie as opposed to a movie with a great movie with

[5:11] a robot in it?

[5:12] It's like a metropolis.

[5:13] I consider not necessarily a robot movie, even though the robot plays a big part in

[5:15] the right.

[5:16] You know, I think a robot movie always has a touch of the Pinocchio in there.

[5:20] It's about the like, like what makes where did Pinocchio touch you, Dan, can you show

[5:24] me on the stall?

[5:25] Well, he lied.

[5:26] His nose just like shot out.

[5:27] I don't think it was purposeful.

[5:28] Sure, sure.

[5:29] Of course not.

[5:30] Telling a lie is a choice, Dan.

[5:31] No, but I think that there's a bit of like the like, what what makes one human?

[5:40] What is what is sentience?

[5:42] Like that is always like part of like the movies that are robot movies, like Chopping

[5:47] Mall, like like artificial intelligence, like Short Circuit, like Heart Beeps, like Chopping

[5:55] Mall is kind of the best of both worlds, isn't it?

[5:57] I mean, Terminator design is possibly the best soundtrack of a little bit about that.

[6:02] Well, so actually, Dan, that's a good segue into our segment right now.

[6:05] It's called De-Botters.

[6:07] This is the debate segment about robots.

[6:10] And this this segment is so the issue is RoboCop, a robot movie.

[6:16] Now, I'm going to put you guys on either side of this, Dan Stewart.

[6:19] You're going to debate this issue with each other for points that will mean nothing.

[6:24] And so, Dan, I'm going to give you first choice because you're so fired up about this already.

[6:27] You get to choose is RoboCop a robot movie or not.

[6:30] And you'll have to argue that side.

[6:31] I'm going to argue it is a is not a robot movie.

[6:34] So you're going to have to argue that RoboCop is a robot movie.

[6:37] OK, and Stuart, because you didn't get to choose your side, you get to take the floor.

[6:41] You had less time to think about it.

[6:43] So now you get the opening statement.

[6:44] So Stuart, is RoboCop a robot movie?

[6:46] You are answering resolved RoboCop is a robot movie.

[6:50] I believe the RoboCop is a robot movie because it focuses on Alex Murphy, a human man inside

[6:57] who has a computer tied in with his brain.

[7:01] And it's we see the differences between when he is controlled by that computer and what

[7:07] Dan, no interruptions, Dan Lister's at home.

[7:10] Dan's face is incredulous from the first moment he's playing to the judges like I'm starting

[7:18] on the vibrating beads up his butt.

[7:20] Yeah.

[7:21] Reacting.

[7:22] The tinkler is underneath Dan right now.

[7:23] Yeah.

[7:25] And we also get to see the difference between RoboCop and a full on robot, ED-209, and we

[7:31] can see the differences and we can see and we can see the the essential element in something

[7:37] that requires nuance, requires a human touch, whereas something like ED-209 is just a unstoppable,

[7:44] unstoppable, unfeeling killing machine.

[7:46] So in that way, I believe it is a I'm not saying that RoboCop is a robot.

[7:50] I'm saying it is a robot movie.

[7:52] Strong argument.

[7:53] Dan, what's your rebuttal?

[7:54] I was incredulous from the beginning because Stuart chose to start his argument out with

[8:00] it's about a human, Alex Murphy.

[8:05] And that's that's the central, you know, argument I make.

[8:08] It is about a human, Alex Murphy.

[8:10] The last lines of the film are what's your name?

[8:13] What's your name, son?

[8:14] Murphy.

[8:15] He doesn't say my name is RoboCop because he isn't a robot cop.

[8:19] He is a man inside a robo suit and it is about knowing his humanity.

[8:24] A robot suit.

[8:25] Dan, this is when the judges can come in and just point out maybe I'm doing Stuart's work

[8:28] for him.

[8:29] But the original tagline for the movie is part human, part robot, all cop.

[8:34] So there you go.

[8:36] He's all cop.

[8:37] He's only robot.

[8:38] Oh, OK.

[8:39] Interesting.

[8:40] All right.

[8:41] Turn around.

[8:42] The robot suit is essentially a, you know, again, I'm going to push back.

[8:46] The judges are going to push back.

[8:48] On the idea suit, it's his physical body.

[8:51] Most of his body is robotic.

[8:52] It's an exoskeleton.

[8:53] It is.

[8:54] It is.

[8:55] The brain is where the humanity exists and the brain is intact.

[9:00] And the movie is a journey to him saying that his name is Murphy.

[9:05] His name is not RoboCop.

[9:07] He is Murphy.

[9:08] He is a man.

[9:09] There is a robot in the film, as Stuart indicates, ED-209, but that is a supporting robot.

[9:16] It's not the primary character and the primary thrust of the film.

[9:20] OK.

[9:21] Now, closing statements for both of you.

[9:22] Stuart, you go first.

[9:23] What's your closing statement?

[9:24] I think the essential element, the essential story of RoboCop is how, what makes us human

[9:30] and the differences and the necessity of keeping that humanity in a world that is becoming

[9:35] more robotized.

[9:37] And Dan, your closing statement?

[9:42] I believe that the theme of a robot movie is what makes us human, but it is explored

[9:48] through robots that become human-like.

[9:51] And this is a movie about rejecting the technologicalization of the man.

[9:59] I would argue.

[10:00] That kind of binary thinking is a robot talk.

[10:02] I am a robot.

[10:04] Twist your neck.

[10:06] Beep boop.

[10:08] The DeBot community has been rocked by the accusation

[10:10] that Dan is in fact a robot

[10:12] programmed to debate.

[10:14] Oh, his disqualification, you know what?

[10:16] There's no winner, unfortunately.

[10:18] Oh, cool.

[10:20] This debate is being shut down.

[10:22] I knew I should have had you guys tested

[10:24] by having you urinate into a cup

[10:26] and when Dan's urine came out as motor oil

[10:28] Just like in Blade Runner, right?

[10:30] Where you have to pee in a cup?

[10:32] This is our new test.

[10:34] The old one was really weird.

[10:36] Yeah, Deckard's like

[10:38] We had a lot of terminal questions.

[10:40] We realized when we looked at your eye

[10:42] while we asked you the weird questions

[10:44] a weird person could just give weird answers

[10:46] and their eye might look weird, but if you pee

[10:48] and oil comes out, you're a robot.

[10:50] Yeah.

[10:52] And in Blade Runner

[10:54] 30.02 or whatever the next one

[10:56] Deckard's like

[10:58] Okay, just pee in the cup.

[11:00] Harrison Ford's getting gravely.

[11:02] Incredibly gravely, yeah.

[11:04] Voight-Kampff.

[11:06] I couldn't remember

[11:08] I kept being like, Waylon Yutani's

[11:10] from Alien.

[11:12] I was pretty desperately trying to find a way

[11:14] to make Voight-Kampff into a piss-related joke

[11:16] but I couldn't do it

[11:18] so I just abandoned it.

[11:20] It's so much easier to make it into a mind-kampff joke

[11:22] which is not what we're doing right here.

[11:24] It's not a joke, Elliot.

[11:26] We're going to give these replicants the mind-kampff test

[11:28] to tell us they're actually Nazis.

[11:30] That's what's happening in the world.

[11:32] Ich bin ein replicant.

[11:34] Ich bin ein...

[11:36] and so forth.

[11:38] Guys, let's move on to what we were talking about before.

[11:40] Let's go back to movie robots.

[11:42] We talked about what makes a good robot movie.

[11:44] Dan says it is the theme of

[11:46] humanity and sentience.

[11:48] What does it mean to be a machine?

[11:50] What does it mean to be alive?

[11:52] I don't want to limit this to human ideas

[11:54] of life and robotics

[11:56] but again, these movies right now are made for a human audience

[11:58] so that makes sense to me.

[12:00] It's about what it is to be human

[12:02] through the medium of robots.

[12:04] But what makes a good movie robot?

[12:06] As we mentioned, batteries not included.

[12:08] Stuart is still going to die on the hill

[12:10] that it is a great movie.

[12:12] I will say it is a very cute robot.

[12:14] It seems like there's two kinds of movie robots.

[12:16] There's the cute, friendly ones

[12:18] batteries not included, short circuit...

[12:20] BB-8, R2-D2.

[12:22] R2-D2, BB-8, Megan, and the scary deadly ones.

[12:24] Chopping all over the world, Megan.

[12:28] Megan straddles the line there.

[12:32] What is it about those aspects of robots?

[12:34] They're either cute and friendly or they're scary and deadly.

[12:36] What makes a good version of each of those

[12:38] in your guys' mind?

[12:40] What makes a good cute robot and not an annoying cute robot?

[12:42] R2-D2, great cute robot.

[12:44] BB-8, okay.

[12:46] That robot in Rise of Skywalker

[12:48] was just a cone on a wheel or some shit.

[12:50] Shitty robot.

[12:52] Scary deadly robot.

[12:54] Some are really cool, some don't pull it off.

[12:56] What's the difference?

[12:58] I do think that part of this

[13:00] is an uncanny valley thing.

[13:02] The cute robot...

[13:04] The valley the uncanny X-Men live in?

[13:06] Yes.

[13:08] The ones that are the most lovable

[13:10] tend to be the ones that are less human.

[13:12] Like your R2-D2s

[13:14] or your batteries not included

[13:16] or even your Interstellars.

[13:18] I'm going to argue with that.

[13:20] I think you're usually right.

[13:22] It's funny that you think the Interstellar robot is cute.

[13:24] I didn't say cute, I said you like them.

[13:26] Oh, you like them, true.

[13:28] Because in Heart Beeps,

[13:30] the robot they make, Phil,

[13:32] maybe he just looks a little too much

[13:34] too attempting to be cute

[13:36] because I found that robot despicable

[13:38] from moment one, that little hip robot.

[13:40] Sure, but I don't find him as off-putting

[13:42] as you do Andy Kaufman robot.

[13:44] No, that's true.

[13:46] I think that if you get too human-like,

[13:48] it's frightening.

[13:50] And that's where Megan

[13:52] knocks on the door.

[13:54] It's kind of like the Garbage Pail Kids

[13:56] in the Garbage Pail Kids movie.

[13:58] The crocodile one, fine.

[14:00] The ones that look more like humans,

[14:02] get them out of here.

[14:04] And in the middle, you've got C-3PO

[14:06] who is irritating but lovable.

[14:08] He looks kind of like a human,

[14:10] but not that much.

[14:12] It's a human shape and a human face arrangement.

[14:14] C-3PO, that design

[14:16] is pulling so much from

[14:18] Maria, the robot from

[14:20] Metropolis, who is a cool-looking robot

[14:22] but is also supposed to be kind of off-putting

[14:24] in that way.

[14:26] Now, what about, Stuart, you can always remember his name

[14:28] and I can't remember, the Japanese artist who paints the sexy robots.

[14:30] Soriyama?

[14:32] Yeah, does that work for you guys?

[14:34] Are you into that?

[14:36] Where it's like a lady's body

[14:38] but with a bald, faceless head on top?

[14:40] Or her legs look like

[14:42] they're, I don't know, the spokes of a motorcycle?

[14:44] I mean, when I was a young perversoid

[14:46] looking through the

[14:48] quote-unquote art books at Beat Alton booksellers,

[14:50] I was never all that into

[14:52] the Soriyama books there.

[14:54] I'm like, okay, I guess this is kind of sexy

[14:56] but they're also robots,

[14:58] so it's not for me, but I'm not

[15:00] putting it down for someone.

[15:02] I feel like there should be a third category.

[15:04] There's cute, friendly, scary, deadly.

[15:06] There should be a category of sexy, attractive.

[15:08] There was just an article in, I think,

[15:10] the New Yorker about

[15:12] what are we going to do in the future when people start

[15:14] falling in love with robots and AI?

[15:16] And yet, aside from robots...

[15:18] The future?

[15:20] No, I'm just saying that I think we're already

[15:22] down that path.

[15:24] They're saying we're entering that phase,

[15:26] so what do we do about it?

[15:28] But in movies, I feel like unless a robot is

[15:30] basically just a woman or

[15:32] Jigolo Joe from AI who's just Jude Law.

[15:34] But shiny.

[15:36] But shiny, yeah.

[15:38] But he looks like the Duracell battery

[15:40] family, where they have plastic, rubber skin

[15:42] or whatever.

[15:44] Oh, yeah.

[15:46] Oh, baby.

[15:48] I love his

[15:50] human features, but it looks like it's made out of

[15:52] latex.

[15:54] We haven't yet figured out what is sexy for a robot

[15:56] without just imitating a human form.

[15:58] Is that because as humans who are

[16:00] programmed mostly, not all of us,

[16:02] but most of us, to reproduce with other humans?

[16:04] That's just what we're into?

[16:06] Are we going to enter a world where people

[16:08] find that there's a new form, a robotic form

[16:10] that they are attracted to?

[16:12] Dan, what do you think? This is off-topic,

[16:14] but it is a hot topic.

[16:16] Can we abstract

[16:18] something that is still sexy,

[16:20] that does not look like humans?

[16:22] Yeah, like Hedonism bot in Futurama.

[16:24] Yeah, yeah.

[16:26] I mean, he still looks kind of like a person.

[16:28] Oh, yeah.

[16:30] I mean, I'm sure

[16:32] people can get there.

[16:34] People find all sorts of things sexy, God bless them.

[16:36] But, you know,

[16:38] I don't think, like, I don't know.

[16:40] I think that something has to look reasonably

[16:42] human for me to be into it.

[16:44] Okay, so let's go back to what we were talking about before,

[16:46] because I'm getting uncomfortable talking about Dan's particular interests.

[16:48] But the...

[16:50] Dan brought it up.

[16:52] I'll give you a pamphlet on it later.

[16:54] So a cute, friendly robot, Dan, you're saying the more

[16:56] kind of, the less kind of human-y,

[16:58] probably the shorter it looks.

[17:00] But probably the cutest robot in all of robots

[17:02] is the gonk droid, the power battery droid

[17:04] in Star Wars, which is basically just a garbage can on legs.

[17:06] But what makes

[17:08] a good, scary, deadly robot?

[17:10] A robot that looks really like it?

[17:12] Like ED-209 is a great, scary-looking robot.

[17:14] A lot of them just look like people.

[17:16] You know, Megan,

[17:18] you'll run around this world.

[17:20] There's something about an unfeeling, uncaring

[17:22] face that is

[17:24] performing an act of violence

[17:26] is terrifying.

[17:28] Is that one that is a simulation of a human face,

[17:30] or if it's just like

[17:32] something flat and blank?

[17:34] Yeah, I would either go, terrifying

[17:36] either has to be Uncanny Valley,

[17:38] you know, like a human,

[17:40] but as Stuart says,

[17:42] there's something off.

[17:44] Or you take advantage

[17:46] of the fact that a robot can be anything,

[17:48] and, you know, it's like, I don't know,

[17:50] it's got a bunch of robo-tentacles, or it looks like a big spider,

[17:52] or something like that.

[17:54] What I don't find scary is sort of the

[17:56] middle ground of like, you know,

[17:58] we mentioned Chopping Mall before.

[18:00] It's a very fun movie. I like it.

[18:02] I would be scared if robots were trying to shoot me

[18:04] with lasers, but the design isn't scary,

[18:06] because it's just like, okay, well these are like,

[18:08] I don't know, like big vacuum cleaners.

[18:10] Yeah, it looks like TM is chasing me.

[18:12] Yeah, I think that makes sense.

[18:14] I think, Stuart, something you've hit on

[18:16] reminds me of why I think the alien

[18:18] from Alien is such a scary design.

[18:20] It's because you can't see its eyes, you know?

[18:22] It's like a kind of strangely

[18:24] human mouth, with, I mean,

[18:26] except for that little mouth inside. I haven't met anybody

[18:28] who has one of those, but it's strangely

[18:30] a mouth with this

[18:32] eyeless face, so it's

[18:34] not projecting emotion except

[18:36] aggression at any point.

[18:38] Okay, so I think we figured out something.

[18:40] A good robot movie has to really

[18:42] take advantage of what

[18:44] it means to be a robot, and what it means to be human.

[18:46] It can't just be a fun story with a robot in it.

[18:48] So for this, I would think you guys would say

[18:50] Star Wars, not a robot movie, necessarily,

[18:52] even though there's so many droids in it.

[18:54] And a good robot,

[18:56] a good movie robot, if it's going to be cute,

[18:58] can't be too human-like,

[19:00] and if it's going to be scary,

[19:02] it has to have some aspect of

[19:04] a lack of human emotion, or at least

[19:06] an exaggeration or character

[19:08] of human emotion. It's less a,

[19:10] it's partly a design thing, but also partly a behavioral

[19:12] effect thing. The Terminator,

[19:14] although he's a cyborg, technically,

[19:16] because he's got flesh on him,

[19:18] he's scary in Terminator because he shows

[19:20] no emotion while he's doing these things.

[19:22] He's walking through a police station, mowing guys

[19:24] down, but he's not, he's showing no

[19:26] reaction to any

[19:28] of that stuff.

[19:30] The Terminators, when they don't have the flesh on them,

[19:32] they're always smiling. They look like they're having a great

[19:34] time, even when they're crushing skulls and they're shooting

[19:36] people. Robot party.

[19:38] It's a huge robot party.

[19:40] I feel like, did either of you guys

[19:42] see last year's Oscar-nominated

[19:44] animated film, The Wild Robot?

[19:46] Yes, I did.

[19:48] It was that robot. I didn't see it, but I've heard

[19:50] good things. It is, that movie is

[19:52] alright. I feel like, it was hard for me,

[19:54] the movie itself is very

[19:56] loud. I was

[19:58] expecting a movie that was a little bit more

[20:00] meditative, and a little bit more tranquil, or what's the word?

[20:05] Flow-like.

[20:06] Yeah, flow-like, because the book is much more like that.

[20:09] The robot in it is okay, the design is all right, you know, it never, I feel like, it's

[20:15] not one of those robots where you see it and you're like, I'm in love with this robot,

[20:17] you know, and it's also not one of those robots where the, it is, it kind of starts already

[20:24] with a certain amount of humanity to it, you know?

[20:27] So it's a, so it's all right, you know?

[20:31] I feel like, when talking about robot design, I feel like going to Pixar is a pretty good

[20:36] place for a lot of these things, whether it's WALL-E, or even like the villainous robots

[20:41] in The Incredibles, because they're like very straightforward, but they manage to add a

[20:46] lot of personality to something that does not speak.

[20:49] It's just this like uncaring ball with tentacles that comes after our heroes.

[20:54] It's even the other robots in WALL-E that, just the side robots, all feel like they have

[20:57] a lot of personality, even when they don't have faces or things like that.

[21:01] I would say WALL-E is the best story about two robots falling in love that's ever been

[21:05] told in film, at least.

[21:08] Yeah.

[21:09] I'm sure there's fan fiction and erotic out there that maybe does it better, but I haven't

[21:15] read it.

[21:16] So, okay, we figured out what makes a good robot movie, kind of, or at least what defines

[21:19] a robot movie.

[21:20] Dan, if you were going to have to write erotic fan fiction about two robots, what two robots

[21:25] would you select?

[21:28] I thought we didn't want to know too much about the inside of my brain.

[21:31] No, this is a good question.

[21:32] This is good.

[21:33] We've got to dig into this.

[21:34] Well, you know, I'd have to go to like, what robots do I think are sexy?

[21:38] I think would have to be...

[21:40] Or which robots do you think would have the most interesting chemistry together?

[21:43] Yeah.

[21:44] Like, I would say Dot Matrix and R2-D2, just because they seem like similar worlds, but

[21:48] you know, there's something a little bit different.

[21:51] See, I feel like my real answer gets too gross.

[21:54] Why don't you give us a fake answer, then, if you're worried about it?

[21:58] No, I kind of want to hear this gross one.

[22:00] I'll kick over a stone.

[22:01] I think it would probably boil down to like, X-Mac and a Robot and Mackenzie Davis from

[22:08] that One Terminator movie.

[22:10] Oh, okay.

[22:11] Yeah, I can see that.

[22:12] But, you know, I don't know, we're just making laughing muffs.

[22:16] I don't know, a Vitamix and...

[22:19] All right, yeah, let's laugh them muffs it up.

[22:24] Yeah.

[22:25] All right.

[22:26] So, we've taken that bizarre detour.

[22:28] Thank you for that.

[22:31] Is Dot Matrix a robot, because doesn't she live in a computer?

[22:35] I don't remember.

[22:36] I don't remember Spaceballs that well.

[22:38] Oh, but Dot Matrix from Spaceballs.

[22:39] I thought you were talking about Dot Matrix from Reboot.

[22:40] I'm sorry about that.

[22:41] No, no, I'm joking.

[22:42] Oh, yeah, Dot Matrix from Spaceballs is very much a robot.

[22:43] Oh, right.

[22:45] Spaceballs is still a robot.

[22:46] Yeah, yeah.

[22:47] No, no, Joan Rivers' robot.

[22:48] Oh, Joan Rivers.

[22:49] Sorry.

[22:50] Yeah.

[22:51] No, but I think that Dan's suggestion, but isn't, so Mackenzie Davis is a...

[22:56] But like, no, but because she hunts Terminators, she's turned herself into more of a robot

[23:03] to do this.

[23:04] So, would she kill Alicia Vikander's X-Mac and a Robot?

[23:07] No, see, that's what makes it hot.

[23:08] It's a forbidden love story.

[23:09] Yeah, it makes sense.

[23:10] Okay, so I just want to explore this.

[23:11] There has to be conflicts.

[23:12] There has to be something taboo.

[23:13] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[23:14] I'm into it.

[23:15] Let's go.

[23:16] It could just be two married robots that are having a hot night together.

[23:19] That could be the story.

[23:20] I mean, that's the most Elliot thing I've ever heard you say.

[23:24] Guys, married life, too.

[23:25] Part of what's hot is they're committed to each other, yeah.

[23:27] Yeah, exactly.

[23:28] Yeah, long-term commitment.

[23:29] What's so sexy about it is knowing that there's a stable grounding for the relationship and

[23:32] they don't have to worry about anything, you know?

[23:34] I mean, I'm a middle-aged man, so I agree with that.

[23:36] Who needs a sudden burst of passion?

[23:38] No, no, no.

[23:39] I want the long-term, bickering, reliable relationship of C-3PO and R2-D2.

[23:44] Who are clearly either a married couple or, as I mentioned in one of the Flop TV episodes,

[23:50] C-3PO is John Arbuckle, R2-D2 is Garfield, and BB-8 is Odie, you know?

[23:56] Oh, that's kind of beautiful.

[23:57] Yeah.

[23:58] So, okay, guys.

[23:59] To get back to what I was saying before, before that other detour, we've identified the theme

[24:05] of a robot movie.

[24:07] We've identified some of the characteristics that make a good movie robot.

[24:10] I think we should use those things to cinematic mechanic our way into heartbeats.

[24:15] But first, I believe we have a sponsor who wants to make their voice heard.

[24:20] Now that we've already heard Dan's voice about which robots he wants to see have sex with

[24:24] each other.

[24:25] Yeah.

[24:26] They love being asked for.

[24:27] Unasked for.

[24:28] They love...

[24:29] Yeah.

[24:30] It was my idea.

[24:31] And also, the sponsor loves being right next to this.

[24:34] Right next to this.

[24:35] They said, we know our ad will get better play if it's placed next to something disgusting.

[24:39] Sure.

[24:40] Because people's hands are clasped over their face and ears rather than hitting the skip

[24:44] button.

[24:45] Hey, speaking of technology, this episode is supported in part by Squarespace, which

[24:52] is the all-in-one website platform for entrepreneurs to stand out and succeed online.

[24:58] Well, what is Squarespace?

[25:00] It offers an unrivaled suite of visual design effects built in and ready to go on any Squarespace

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[25:09] I feel like there's something missing in the copy there.

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[25:40] footprint...

[25:41] Print.

[25:42] Sorry.

[25:43] Or footpants.

[25:44] For my footpants.

[25:45] Expanding your brand's footpants.

[25:48] You know...

[25:49] We call them shoes, right, Liv?

[25:50] My footpants have been getting snug lately.

[25:53] Yeah.

[25:54] Maybe it's my blood pressure.

[25:56] Okay.

[25:57] Well, go to squarespace.com for a free trial if any of this has been convincing to you.

[26:02] If you love this footpants talk, why not support it by going to Squarespace?

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[26:19] or domain.

[26:22] That's it for me.

[26:23] If anyone has any plugs, now's the time.

[26:25] Otherwise, we'll return to the show.

[26:27] I have two plugs that I'd like to plug.

[26:30] The first is that every month DC Comics comes out with a new issue of Harley Quinn.

[26:35] It's a comic book about everybody's favorite former Joker girlfriend turned superstar in

[26:40] her own right, Harley Quinn, and I write that comic book right now every month.

[26:44] So why not go into your comic book store and say, hey, make mine Harley.

[26:48] And then they'll say, what?

[26:49] And you'll say, could I have the new issue of Harley Quinn, please?

[26:52] And if it's the week that that comes out, they'll say, here it is.

[26:55] And if it's not the week, they may still have a copy, but you should go in every month and

[26:58] do it.

[26:59] And I also wanted to mention that my new children's book, Sadie Mouse Wrecks the House, it's a

[27:05] new picture book that I wrote and the great Tim Miller, who did the art for my other book,

[27:09] Horse Meets Dog, did the art for this as well.

[27:12] It comes out April 22nd and is available for pre-order now from all bookstore places.

[27:19] Please patronize your local independent bookstore.

[27:21] We just call them bookstores.

[27:23] You don't have to add the places to.

[27:25] Oh, OK, because I usually add place to things or I'm going to the drugstore place.

[27:31] Yeah, the I'm going to go to the movie theater place.

[27:34] Please go to your local bookstore and say, make mine Sadie.

[27:37] And they'll say, what?

[27:38] And you'll say, can you preorder a copy of Sadie Mouse Wrecks the House by Ellie Kaelin?

[27:42] It comes out April 22nd.

[27:43] It's a story of a good little mouse who's tired of having to do all the chores.

[27:46] And she decides she's going to do the chores bad.

[27:48] And she wrecks her house.

[27:50] My kids think it's funny.

[27:51] So hopefully your kids will, too.

[27:53] Sounds delightful.

[28:00] A special thank you to the Max Fund members who joined, boosted or upgraded

[28:04] their membership during this year's Max Fund Drive.

[28:07] And as a thank you to everyone who supports Max Fund, we're excited to announce

[28:11] that this year's pin sale is now open.

[28:14] This year's proceeds will go to Transgender Law Center to support their continuing work

[28:18] and advocating self-determination for all people.

[28:22] Everyone at $10 per month or more can purchase Max Fund Drive pins

[28:26] featuring shows from across the network.

[28:29] And all levels are able to buy our 2025 exclusive pin

[28:33] featuring our rad pal, Nutsy the Squirrel.

[28:35] For more info, head to maximumfund.org slash pin sale.

[28:40] And as always, thank you so much for your ongoing support.

[28:45] Since 2017, Maximum Film has had the same slogan.

[28:49] The podcast that's not just a bunch of straight white guys.

[28:52] Ooh, we've learned something over the years.

[28:54] Some people out there really do not like that slogan.

[28:57] Listen, we love straight white guys.

[28:59] Well, some of them.

[29:00] But if there's one thing we can't change, it's who we are.

[29:03] I'm Ify, a comedian who was on strike last year in two different unions.

[29:07] I'm Drea, I've been a producer and film festival programmer for decades.

[29:11] And I'm Alonzo, a film critic who literally wrote the book on queer Hollywood.

[29:15] You can listen to us talk movies and the movie biz every week on Maximum Film.

[29:19] We may not be straight white guys, but we love movies.

[29:22] And we know what we're talking about.

[29:24] Listen to Maximum Film on Maximum Fun or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[29:30] Guys, we are back to Flophouse Mini Cinematic Mechanic.

[29:34] Today, we are going to be fixing the last movie we watched for this podcast.

[29:38] That movie was Heart Beeps starring Andy Kaufman and Bernadette Peters and written and directed by Paul Schrader.

[29:44] And so here's the question that we have to go with.

[29:48] We're going to improve the robots and the robot movie.

[29:51] First, let's identify – we did last week.

[29:53] Let's identify some of the things that are problems with the robots in this movie.

[29:56] One, annoying, very annoying.

[29:58] Two, uncanny valley.

[30:00] They look like people with weird cheeks.

[30:02] Three, they don't do anything.

[30:05] That's the main problem.

[30:06] The movie is very,

[30:08] the idea of it is we're gonna watch two robots

[30:11] go through the stages of falling in love

[30:13] and starting a family while they wander

[30:16] through the New Mexico woods, it turns out.

[30:18] But they don't really do much of anything else.

[30:20] Even though they're chased by a crime buster robot,

[30:22] that doesn't really mean anything.

[30:23] So how do we improve this movie?

[30:25] How do we improve these robots?

[30:26] What elements are these robots missing

[30:28] that would make them more enjoyable robots?

[30:32] They have like a big cannon on their arms, maybe.

[30:34] Yeah.

[30:35] Okay, okay.

[30:36] They've got big cannons on their arms.

[30:37] So the Andy Kaufman character, he's a valet robot, right?

[30:41] And Bernadette Peters' robot is designed purely

[30:44] to flirt with men at pool parties, specifically.

[30:47] But they should both have cannons on their arms,

[30:49] what you're saying.

[30:50] I mean, I think that's more realistic

[30:52] to the sort of robot industrial complex.

[30:57] Yeah, put cannons on them.

[30:59] The same way that Johnny Five from Short Circuit,

[31:01] who I'm surprised we haven't mentioned up till this point,

[31:03] he has like a rocket launcher on his back, right?

[31:05] Even though it gets turned into an umbrella launcher.

[31:06] Did you hear some brief Johnny Five talk?

[31:08] Was there?

[31:09] Yeah, he has like a shoulder-mounted

[31:11] rocket launcher type thing.

[31:13] Yeah, so okay.

[31:13] I was arguing that Johnny Five was a great robot

[31:16] while not appearing in a great robot picture.

[31:19] An okay robot picture.

[31:20] Or a great roulette picture either.

[31:21] He doesn't, you know,

[31:22] Croupier does not feature Johnny Five in it.

[31:27] What if instead of Clive Owen,

[31:29] Croupier had starred Johnny Five?

[31:30] Would the movie be different?

[31:31] Would it still be accepted as a quality film?

[31:35] It's an odd, you know, mix of tones at that point.

[31:38] Sort of a, what's kind of like a brooding neo-noir

[31:41] with like just a robot in it.

[31:43] A really chatterbox robot too, yeah.

[31:46] So for the most part, the humans in this movie

[31:49] wear normal human clothes.

[31:51] Why do the robots wear weird shiny clothes?

[31:54] Why don't they just put them in regular human clothes?

[31:56] That's a good question.

[31:57] I wonder if the robots' metallic bodies

[31:59] would tear those clothes too easily.

[32:01] Just rip them to shreds, yeah.

[32:01] So they have to wait.

[32:02] Yeah, just like the Blondie song,

[32:03] it would rip her to shreds.

[32:05] And so I wonder if that's the reason

[32:07] that they're wearing what appeared

[32:08] to just be vinyl clothes, you know?

[32:10] But it's a good question.

[32:11] So you would put them in regular clothes.

[32:13] You think that would help it a little bit?

[32:13] First step, regular clothes.

[32:16] So we're fixing these characters.

[32:17] I'm glad we're taking this very sincerely.

[32:18] They both have cannons on their arms

[32:20] and they're wearing regular clothes.

[32:22] I would say the Val robot, as a valet,

[32:25] he has fully opposable fingers.

[32:28] And due to the design of the hand, like glove,

[32:33] his fingers are always splayed really crazy.

[32:36] I think he should have just had a sealed, closed hand.

[32:39] Oh, okay.

[32:40] So like a mitten, more than fingers.

[32:43] Okay.

[32:44] But that's the non-cannon hand.

[32:47] My real-

[32:47] Or does he have the thing where his mitten hand

[32:49] can kind of drop down on a hinge,

[32:50] revealing a cannon in the arm?

[32:52] Yes, duh.

[32:53] Sorry.

[32:55] Like Guts from Berserk, duh.

[32:57] So you're asking for sincerity in fixing him.

[33:00] Not necessarily, yeah.

[33:02] I'd be like, Bernadette Peters robot, you're doing great.

[33:08] No notes in particular.

[33:09] You can basically be the way you are.

[33:11] Andy Kaufman robot, this voice you've been doing.

[33:15] Okay, let's talk about the voice.

[33:16] Dan, what does that voice, to remind the audience,

[33:18] what does the voice sound like?

[33:21] You kind of talk like this.

[33:23] I can't actually do it.

[33:24] He's like-

[33:25] It's a little latke.

[33:26] A little latke, yeah.

[33:27] It's pretty good.

[33:28] It is like a little latke.

[33:28] And you want a big latke.

[33:29] You want a latke that can soak up a lot of oil,

[33:31] you know, get real crispy, you know.

[33:33] Be a sour cream delivery system.

[33:36] I'm more of an applesauce guy, but that's just me.

[33:38] And I eat it plain.

[33:39] I want to taste the latke.

[33:41] I want to taste the potato.

[33:42] I want to taste the onion.

[33:43] Yeah, I want to taste the fried grease element, yeah.

[33:45] But not just the voice, like in a heartbeats,

[33:47] not to like return too much to our previous episode,

[33:51] like they talk like dumb children.

[33:54] They do, it is.

[33:56] So that's something that I feel like

[33:57] we didn't really adequately describe in the last episode,

[33:59] which is that it is the thing that movies do often,

[34:02] where they confuse innocence with dumbness.

[34:04] Like a character is naive and innocent,

[34:06] therefore they talk like an idiot.

[34:08] They don't know anything.

[34:09] They sound like-

[34:10] It's like Nuki all over again.

[34:10] Right, whereas-

[34:11] It is like Nuki all over again, yeah.

[34:13] I prefer a robot that, yeah,

[34:14] like talks with sophistication for a robot.

[34:18] Like it's a lot of, you know,

[34:19] sort of like understanding of facts,

[34:22] but maybe naivete when it comes to, you know,

[34:24] human behavior is fine.

[34:26] C-3PO is what you mean.

[34:27] C-3PO, I mean, I was thinking the exact same thing.

[34:29] You're basically describing C-3PO,

[34:30] who speaks very articulately,

[34:32] but even for a protocol robot

[34:34] who's designed to interact with humans,

[34:36] has no idea what humans are doing at any given moment.

[34:37] Does not understand when he's cock blocking console.

[34:40] No, and is only,

[34:42] so let's talk about C-3PO for a minute.

[34:43] Okay, there's, I know people who don't like C-3PO.

[34:46] I've heard the discussions between Jesse Thorne

[34:48] and Tom Sharpling on, I think it was on Bullseye,

[34:51] about how much they both hate C-3PO.

[34:53] Whereas, and they hate him for the same reasons I love him,

[34:56] which is that he is the worst robot.

[34:58] He is, only cares about himself,

[35:00] is oblivious to what's going on around him,

[35:02] and less in the way, except the way it affects him.

[35:04] And he's constantly anxious,

[35:06] and he's constantly fussy,

[35:07] and he's very short-tempered,

[35:08] and it's very easy for him to get thrown off his game.

[35:12] All these things that you should not see in a robot,

[35:14] but he does them all beautifully.

[35:16] And I think it's partly because Anthony Daniels

[35:17] does such a great job with the voice,

[35:19] but also with the movement stuff.

[35:20] He's a robot who constantly looks like he is offended

[35:23] and wants to talk to the manager,

[35:24] which I think is very funny in a robot.

[35:25] What's also kind of great is I feel like

[35:26] every single other movie of this type,

[35:30] if they had a character like this,

[35:32] that character would have a moment where he shines.

[35:35] Yes.

[35:36] C-3PO never has that moment.

[35:37] I was just thinking to myself,

[35:39] whether we could make a list of the times he is useful,

[35:42] and I can only think of when he is,

[35:44] in Return of the Jedi,

[35:46] able to be a god to these Ewoks

[35:48] and convince them not to eat the humans,

[35:51] their little cannibalistic space bears.

[35:54] And that's part of the joke of it,

[35:55] is that the one character who's confused for a god

[35:59] is, again, the most useless, least helpful character.

[36:02] He spends most of Empire Strikes Back

[36:03] just as an annoying voice strapped to Chewbacca's back.

[36:07] Giving him directions which are mainly ignored.

[36:10] Yes, and I love how, in the Trash Compactor scene,

[36:13] that C-3PO is like, oh, it's too late, we've killed them.

[36:17] You know, his job, which is to be the liaison

[36:20] between R2-D2 and the others, he's doing so poorly.

[36:24] It is, it shows such, I don't,

[36:27] it's one of these things where like the,

[36:29] you know, George Lucas doesn't get a lot of credit

[36:31] usually for his character personalities, you know.

[36:34] I feel like outside of C-3PO and Han Solo

[36:36] and maybe a little bit of Darth Vader,

[36:38] he doesn't get a lot of credit

[36:39] for creating indelible characters.

[36:40] There's some people who like Luke,

[36:41] but I don't, other people who don't.

[36:43] But the C-3PO is such a specific, funny character to me,

[36:47] and he is so out of, there's no reason

[36:49] to have him in so much of it, except to interpret for R2-D2.

[36:52] Like, he's useful when he can interpret sometimes,

[36:55] but even when he's interpreting for R2-D2,

[36:56] he does it in a way that is totally misunderstanding

[36:59] what's actually important with what's going on in the story.

[37:02] So anyway, I love all that about him.

[37:04] So he's, you can have an annoying robot character

[37:07] and have them be the best thing in a movie.

[37:09] I want to toss in, I mean, you know,

[37:11] Leia's pretty indelible,

[37:12] but I think that Carrie Fisher is bringing

[37:15] almost all of that to that part.

[37:15] I think none of that is on the page, yeah.

[37:18] The personality of that character,

[37:20] if you're just looking at it without her performance,

[37:22] it changes so much from scene to scene,

[37:24] and she's the thing that ties it together, for sure, yeah.

[37:26] So here's what we need.

[37:27] So these robots either have to be,

[37:29] so we're saying they should not sound like morons,

[37:32] basically, these robots.

[37:34] They should misunderstand things,

[37:35] but in a way that is smart and specific to them,

[37:38] because again, they're robots.

[37:39] Why would you make a dumb robot?

[37:40] Again, I feel like we are moving towards that

[37:43] in actual real-world technology for some reason.

[37:45] But I'm too slow.

[37:47] Why would you want to create a robot

[37:49] that gives you just wrong information all the time?

[37:52] That is essentially C-3PO.

[37:54] Yeah.

[37:55] He's like, I'm fluent in six million forms of communication,

[37:58] but none of them are basic human emotional signals.

[38:03] So we can make these characters more like C-3PO,

[38:05] like Andy Coffin's character should be more like C-3PO,

[38:07] which gives him more of an arc.

[38:08] If he is not a lovable, already in love,

[38:13] innocent from the beginning, it gives him a place to go.

[38:16] I feel like with WALL-E, he starts out as an innocent,

[38:20] but it is kind of the arc of him understanding

[38:23] that the job he's been doing for years is the wrong job,

[38:26] that the things that he does that are outside his programming

[38:28] where he keeps his old stuff,

[38:30] that is the good stuff that he's doing.

[38:32] Well, plot-wise, and I'm mentioning this

[38:35] as it sort of associates with his character,

[38:39] there should be an inciting incident

[38:42] that specifically catapults him beyond his comfort zone

[38:46] in a way that then he needs to change his programming,

[38:50] become more human in reaction to it,

[38:54] rather than in heartbeats, it really seems to be like,

[38:57] oh, what's going on over there?

[38:59] Let's go look.

[39:01] That's kind of all that motivates them.

[39:04] And yeah, it needs something that's sort of like,

[39:08] a fish out of water thing.

[39:09] I mean, I see a rainbow.

[39:10] That's kind of the incitement.

[39:12] If you see a rainbow, you wanna get closer to it.

[39:14] Andy chants with burning up heaters

[39:16] about banana daiquiris, dude.

[39:18] You don't think that's inciting enough?

[39:19] You don't think that's?

[39:21] That's true.

[39:23] I guess so.

[39:24] I mean, incite a reaction in me, but I don't know.

[39:28] The idea of a banana daiquiri opens up a whole world.

[39:31] It's like Ariel finding that fork or whatever

[39:33] in Little Mermaid.

[39:34] It's like, oh, I have to learn more

[39:35] about the civilization that would create this.

[39:37] But honestly, that would be so much better, I think,

[39:42] be like, I want to taste what a banana daiquiri is.

[39:45] I've been programmed in with this chatter,

[39:48] but I don't know what a banana daiquiri is.

[39:49] It would be a very funny quest to me

[39:51] if this kicked off just being like,

[39:53] we have to go taste, as robots, a banana daiquiri.

[39:56] Yeah, or she brings it up and he's like, okay,

[40:00] What does it taste like?

[40:00] And she doesn't have an answer.

[40:02] And then she actually has a quest of her own

[40:04] and not just I follow you around.

[40:06] Yeah.

[40:07] Yeah, well now let's talk about the quest

[40:08] because I think this is great.

[40:09] Okay, so heart beeps,

[40:09] the characters start talking about banana daiquiris.

[40:11] She's never been asked the question,

[40:12] what does it taste like before?

[40:13] And now she wants to go on that quest

[40:15] and he's in love with her, so he's gonna follow along.

[40:17] Again, this is very Wally Eva

[40:18] where Eva is the one who's like doing stuff.

[40:21] And Wally literally stows away to follow along after her.

[40:26] The quest.

[40:27] So the quest in the movie now seems to be

[40:28] that they need to go somewhere to see a rainbow.

[40:33] And then when they get there,

[40:35] they're like, we're running out of power,

[40:36] we gotta go back.

[40:37] Again, we said last week, Fury Road plot structure.

[40:39] Yeah.

[40:41] What would make this quest more interesting

[40:42] than say just wandering through the woods

[40:45] and once or twice Crime Buster threatens them?

[40:48] What, like, let's quest it up, you know?

[40:50] And keep in mind they have cannons for arms now.

[40:53] So that's a thing that could cause them some trouble too.

[40:55] And also that the Andy Kaufman character

[40:57] is gonna be much more like C-3PO.

[40:58] So he's constantly complaining

[40:59] and probably getting into trouble

[41:01] because he's not programmed very well at what he does.

[41:03] So what are some things, just give me some incidents,

[41:05] some incidents and episodes.

[41:06] This would be very difficult to do in this world

[41:09] where the Stan Winston makeup does not look like people.

[41:13] It looks like weird Energizer characters, like we said,

[41:17] but I would-

[41:17] Yeah, they're not gonna get mistaken

[41:18] for people in this movie.

[41:19] I would love a scene where because they're on the run,

[41:23] they have to pretend to be human.

[41:26] Instead of pretending to be trees as they do in the movie.

[41:29] Yeah, like they're at a busy bar or restaurant

[41:33] or a public place and like the whole crowd of people

[41:35] and they have to behave like humans and pass as human.

[41:39] Yeah, they put like masks on.

[41:41] They're like, oh, we gotta protect from COVID.

[41:43] You put your finger on something

[41:46] that is a problem with this movie

[41:47] that I didn't even necessarily realize while watching it

[41:50] because I was so eager to be done with watching it,

[41:52] which is we see them go to a party.

[41:54] They don't pretend to be attendees of the party.

[41:57] They pretend to be robots that are working at the party.

[42:00] Woody Allen pretending to be a robot and sleeper

[42:02] who works at a party is a joke because he's a person.

[42:05] He's not a robot.

[42:05] Right.

[42:06] For a robot to go to a party

[42:07] and then pretend to be one of the robots

[42:09] working at the party is not particularly funny.

[42:11] It would be much funnier if they're like,

[42:13] oh, we got invited to this party.

[42:15] Yeah.

[42:16] We're the robot invitees.

[42:18] Mm-hmm.

[42:19] Or they pretend they're people

[42:20] and like, oh, we had work done.

[42:22] We had work done to look like robots or whatever.

[42:25] A person pretending to be a robot

[42:26] and messing it up is funny.

[42:28] A robot pretending to be a person and messing up is funny.

[42:29] A robot pretending to be a robot and messing it up,

[42:32] you gotta work much harder.

[42:33] It just gotta be that much better, you know?

[42:36] So I think that's great.

[42:37] So one scene, they gotta go somewhere and be people.

[42:39] Maybe they go to a bar.

[42:40] If this was a movie made,

[42:41] I feel like this movie was made just one year earlier

[42:46] or after they would have gone to like a honky-tonk bar

[42:49] and they'd have to pretend to be, you know,

[42:50] cowboys or something like that.

[42:52] And one of them would have to ride a mechanical bull.

[42:54] Yeah, arm wrestle on the right hand.

[42:55] And someone would hit on one of the robots,

[42:57] like a human being.

[42:58] Yes.

[42:59] And there would, yeah, there'd be something saucy going on.

[43:02] A woman would be hitting on the Andy Kaufman robot,

[43:05] not recognizing that he is a robot and not a person.

[43:09] And it would be very awkward.

[43:10] And also, Bernadette Peters would be getting,

[43:12] my jealousy circuits are kicking in.

[43:14] I've never felt these before.

[43:15] And be like, but I'm not even responding.

[43:18] Why did they get, why do I feel pain?

[43:21] Like in Star Wars, in Return of the Jedi,

[43:22] when they're torturing those robots.

[43:23] And it's like, well, why do they put pain sensors

[43:25] on the bottom of that robot's feet?

[43:27] For this scene.

[43:28] For this one moment.

[43:30] You know, we gotta make sure that these robots,

[43:32] which are, you know, they're just untiring workers

[43:34] that can do dangerous jobs,

[43:36] that they feel pain while they're doing it.

[43:37] That is, it's a statement on capitalism.

[43:39] Cruelty is the point.

[43:41] Yeah, yeah, I guess so.

[43:42] So, okay, so they have to go to a bar,

[43:45] maybe a honky-tonk bar, maybe not,

[43:46] and pretend that they are,

[43:47] maybe it's a swing dancing bar

[43:48] and they've got to swing dance

[43:50] and they win a competition or something like that.

[43:52] But they accidentally blow everybody up

[43:53] and they think it's part of the show.

[43:54] What's another fun adventure for these robots to have?

[43:57] Let's come up with like two more.

[43:58] And then I think we'll have maybe fixed heartbeats.

[44:01] What are some fun robot adventures?

[44:03] Fun robot adventures, okay.

[44:07] We've already talked about having to find the banana daiquiri.

[44:10] Yes.

[44:11] Are we going to keep the idea that they-

[44:12] And at the bar, they don't even,

[44:13] and maybe at the bar,

[44:14] they're just about to almost drink it

[44:15] when they accidentally start a bar fight.

[44:17] It gets knocked out of their hands.

[44:18] Oh no, they were so close.

[44:20] Are we going to keep the baby robot stories?

[44:24] Okay, so let's talk about it.

[44:25] This is a big question.

[44:26] It's a big part of the movie

[44:27] that they are becoming parents.

[44:28] They're experiencing the things that parents do.

[44:31] As I said during the episode where we talked to this movie,

[44:32] that made me really mad.

[44:34] It felt like they were trying to tug on my heartstrings

[44:36] in a way that I didn't give them consensual permission to.

[44:39] So I had to bat their hand away from my heartstrings.

[44:43] So do we keep that little baby robot, Phil?

[44:45] What do you guys think?

[44:46] I don't think it's necessary.

[44:48] Like, I think that it's enough to be like,

[44:51] oh, can two robots fall in love?

[44:55] But if we did keep it,

[44:56] I would add that much later in the film.

[44:58] I would be like,

[44:59] that seems like that should be a third act thing

[45:02] that happens is like, they create this life together.

[45:05] Do you want to have like a weird birth scene

[45:08] or should it be the way it is where they like build it?

[45:10] Like, show them how to like squirt it out.

[45:12] I don't want any body horror.

[45:13] Thank you.

[45:14] I don't want a robot birth.

[45:15] I've seen Teton.

[45:16] I know what a good movie looks like.

[45:18] It just shows Dan that the act of birth,

[45:20] maybe the most beautiful act of creation a human can create,

[45:23] that goes straight to horror for you.

[45:24] You're right.

[45:25] You're right.

[45:26] I was talking about that

[45:26] and not the idea of a robot giving birth.

[45:32] Oh no, my water broke.

[45:34] Speaking of water, this is a very dumb idea,

[45:36] but somehow in my head,

[45:38] I really want to see the matter.

[45:39] Is that in the water world world?

[45:40] So if they fall in love with each other?

[45:41] No, I was going to say,

[45:42] I want to see them at a water park where they keep it.

[45:45] People keep trying to encourage them

[45:47] to go down the water slide.

[45:48] And they're like, we can't.

[45:51] They've got, so they've gone to the bar.

[45:52] They're hiding out with the people who think they're,

[45:54] the woman who thinks they're humans.

[45:55] Oh, the next day she's going to a water park.

[45:58] They have to go with her or else they'll blow their cover.

[46:00] And so they can't, they can't get wet.

[46:02] Yeah.

[46:03] And cause they're grandmas.

[46:04] See, this is what I'm saying.

[46:05] Likes the screen writing gurus say,

[46:06] you got to get your heroes up a tree and throw rocks at them.

[46:08] There weren't very many rocks

[46:10] being thrown at these characters.

[46:11] To be fair, there were a lot of trees though.

[46:12] They passed a lot of trees.

[46:13] Now taking out the shrub, the little kid,

[46:16] it raises a question.

[46:17] It opens a Pandora's box.

[46:18] I'm not sure you want to get open, which is,

[46:19] do we need Catskill?

[46:21] Is Catskill a necessary part of the movie?

[46:23] Well, do you like to fucking laugh, Elliot?

[46:25] Yeah.

[46:26] Does this podcast need an Elliot Kaelin in it?

[46:30] Wow.

[46:31] Wow.

[46:32] It is.

[46:33] So if I'm Catskill, which, I guess, Dan,

[46:35] you're Andy Kaufman and Stuart, you're Bernadette Peters.

[46:37] Unfortunately.

[46:37] I'm a fucking dream.

[46:38] Yeah.

[46:39] And I'm Catskill.

[46:40] Can I be Dick Miller?

[46:41] He shows up in one scene.

[46:43] No, I don't think you can be Dick Miller.

[46:45] So, well, okay.

[46:46] I'll let you be Dick Miller, sure.

[46:47] Thank you.

[46:48] For Halloween this year.

[46:49] My dream.

[46:49] Dan, if you were to dress up as Dick Miller for Halloween,

[46:51] how would you do that?

[46:52] Would you just get a mask of Dick Miller?

[46:54] Oh, boy.

[46:54] That is...

[46:55] Yeah.

[46:56] Go to Spirit Halloween.

[46:57] Get a beloved character actor from the...

[47:01] They would make it a generic set, though.

[47:02] So it would just say beloved character actor.

[47:04] And it would clearly be a generic set.

[47:05] Yeah.

[47:06] And it would be a generic set.

[47:07] Yeah.

[47:08] And it would just say beloved character actor.

[47:09] And it would clearly be a Dick Miller costume.

[47:11] Yeah.

[47:12] No, I mean, I would have to...

[47:13] The same way that you get a jumpsuit and a proton pack,

[47:15] but it says like Spirit Fighter.

[47:18] Yeah, the Dick Miller one is Older Gremlin Disliker.

[47:22] Yeah.

[47:23] Yeah.

[47:24] Yeah.

[47:25] Yeah.

[47:26] Yeah.

[47:27] Yeah.

[47:28] Yeah.

[47:29] Yeah.

[47:30] Yeah.

[47:31] Yeah.

[47:32] Yeah.

[47:33] Yeah.

[47:34] Yeah.

[47:35] Yeah.

[47:36] Yeah.

[47:37] Yeah.

[47:38] That would have been great.

[47:39] So Dan, what are you saying?

[47:40] So you want...

[47:41] Makeup, you know, like some like forehead lines,

[47:43] some smile lines, and then just, you know,

[47:45] wear like old man clothes.

[47:47] Okay, because in most of his roles,

[47:49] he's just wearing regular clothes.

[47:51] It's rare that Dick Miller is wearing something flashy,

[47:54] you know, or super recognizable.

[47:55] Yeah, I just mean like, you know, like old man,

[47:57] like he's of like an earlier generation.

[47:59] You can like, he's like, you know, Dick Miller.

[48:03] I think you look at him, you're like, this guy was cool,

[48:05] but he's also older now, you know?

[48:06] Yeah.

[48:08] I feel like if he's in a movie that has exciting costumes,

[48:10] it's important for him to look like a normal guy.

[48:13] Yeah, I agree.

[48:14] I agree.

[48:15] He's not a kill bot.

[48:16] Yeah, he's the genre who cleans up

[48:18] after He-Man or something.

[48:19] So this is all to say that Catskill stays in the movie.

[48:23] So what does Catskill, does Catskill get,

[48:25] in this movie, he does get a scene

[48:26] where he kind of proves his worth

[48:27] by giving his life literally to Phil.

[48:31] That is that moment that you expect C-3PO

[48:33] to get in another movie that he never gets.

[48:34] Does Catskill need that moment,

[48:36] or can he just be like a real borscht belt,

[48:39] hack stinker the whole movie?

[48:40] Yeah, he can just be,

[48:41] I don't know that he needs that moment,

[48:43] but it is weird that they make it out to be like,

[48:47] you know, these robots have their specialties.

[48:50] Like, the specialties never come into play, really.

[48:53] Like, there's no moment where Catskill's

[48:55] like gets up on stage and people are like, yeah!

[48:58] They like him at the party.

[48:59] They like his joke at the party.

[49:00] Joke's at the party.

[49:01] He doesn't help in any way.

[49:02] I guess that's the closest it comes,

[49:03] but it feels like if you're gonna have three robots

[49:06] who have different strengths,

[49:08] like that should pay off at some point in the film.

[49:11] Maybe I'm crazy.

[49:12] I mean, that would be kind of textbook screenwriting.

[49:15] We've been talking about robots a lot.

[49:16] I don't think it has to happen with all of them, but.

[49:18] We haven't even mentioned probably

[49:20] one of the most popular robot movies,

[49:23] the Transformers films, which we've talked about.

[49:25] Robot jocks.

[49:26] Yeah.

[49:27] They're not even robots, dude.

[49:28] They're driving things.

[49:29] They don't even call jocks properly.

[49:31] Yeah, there's a lot of problems

[49:32] with calling robot jocks a robot movie.

[49:35] Those are mechs, Dan.

[49:36] Yeah.

[49:37] So Transformers, what does Transformers do so right

[49:40] that it's been such a successful series

[49:42] and that people love so much and the stories are so great?

[49:45] Is it, you're saying this movie also needs a character

[49:47] who has laminated the rules

[49:49] about what constitutes statutory rape

[49:51] and what doesn't in case the police officer

[49:52] gets mad at him with that?

[49:54] What a weird moment and a weird movie.

[49:55] It is the thing that sticks out to me the most

[49:57] from those movies because it's so unnecessary.

[49:59] It's not.

[50:00] And it's like, yeah, I took my kids to see this action movie about robots that change shape.

[50:04] Oh, this guy's going to spend a whole scene justifying why he has a relationship with a 17-year-old girl.

[50:08] Like I don't like it. I don't like it at all.

[50:12] Or the two young robots who speak in slang and can't read.

[50:16] Oh, I don't like that. And I do like that there's a robot with a beard though.

[50:20] What about the robot that has the giant swinging wrecking ball testicle?

[50:24] The secret to their success is crassness and racism.

[50:28] It makes me wonder if every Transformers movie, Michael Bay was like,

[50:32] why doesn't my friend John Waters take over one scene in this movie?

[50:36] Every installment. And John Waters is like, well, of course this robot needs huge wrecking ball balls.

[50:40] And Michael Bay's like, I gave you total control today.

[50:44] I don't like it, but you've got to do it.

[50:48] What if this character's talking about all about their illegal, taboo-busting cross-age relationship?

[50:52] All right, John, you're America's favorite dirty uncle. I can't say no to you.

[50:56] Even if it's a billion-dollar franchise, but go for it.

[51:00] T.J. Miller's been in this movie, Beloved by America. Let's just kill him with no fanfare.

[51:04] I think we can all agree Cogman is awesome.

[51:08] Cogman, the robot butler guy?

[51:12] You remember Cogman? I don't remember Cogman.

[51:16] You don't remember Cogman from Transformers The Last Knight?

[51:20] I think you'll find that I retain very little about the Transformers series.

[51:24] The Transformers, they don't do a lot of the stuff that Dan was talking about earlier about what it means to be human.

[51:28] They're aliens.

[51:32] They're aliens who happen to be sentient machines.

[51:36] That's what makes it different, I think.

[51:40] But they also turn into cars and dinosaurs.

[51:44] The morphing. Everybody's morphing.

[51:48] So let's say it's the big climax. We're going to the climax of the movie.

[51:52] It's going to be something that they're in danger from.

[51:56] So let's say it's Crimebuster, but it's ED-209.

[52:00] He's been out of work for a while. They hired him for heartbeats.

[52:04] I would argue if you are trying to tell this kind of a story, and you're going to have the Crimebuster character,

[52:08] the conclusion of the Crimebuster character should not involve

[52:12] an armed conflict where they deactivate him or whatever.

[52:16] It should be that they convince him that he's wrong, basically.

[52:20] You could say that could be the moment where Catskill makes Crimebuster laugh

[52:24] or they share a banana daiquiri with him and it messes with the circuits

[52:28] and he becomes a loving robot.

[52:32] The taste of a banana daiquiri poured through his intake port.

[52:36] Famous Iranian film, Taste of Banana Daiquiri.

[52:40] No robots in that movie. Surprising.

[52:44] So it would be the power of love or banana daiquiris that stops Crimebuster.

[52:48] Or that they have changed so much that they are

[52:52] not behaving like robots anymore, so he does not want to capture them.

[52:56] And there's a moment in the movie that almost gets to that point where

[53:00] it doesn't compute that they're acting like humans and not robots.

[53:04] That's a surprisingly sweet way to end it, is that

[53:08] the robot police officer no longer recognizes them as robots.

[53:12] They've done every robot in a movie's dream of becoming a person.

[53:16] Maybe some of their robot parts start becoming

[53:20] all squishy and fleshy like in Existenza.

[53:24] And now she can't give birth to Tane style.

[53:28] And then Dan thinks it's sexy again.

[53:32] We basically have to rip off the end of Short Circuit 2, which was also a rip off

[53:36] of the end of Mac and Me.

[53:40] They take the citizenship oath and they're robot citizens.

[53:44] I wish that Mac and Me was not about

[53:48] them discovering the aliens and all that, but was just about them studying for the citizenship exam.

[53:52] Because as far as we can tell, they can barely talk.

[53:56] They can just kind of whistle at each other.

[54:00] They're so totally at a loss to understand anything that's going on around them at any moment.

[54:04] How they memorized the first ten amendments in the Bill of Rights, I don't know.

[54:08] I don't know how they did it.

[54:12] I've seen it too many times since we had to do a mystery science theater for it.

[54:16] At this point, it might be in the double digits of times I've seen Mac and Me.

[54:20] But at some point, we might have to do Mac and Me just so you can see its story.

[54:24] I feel like you probably want to share with your kids.

[54:28] I think I've told the story before of being at a sleepover.

[54:32] It might have been at my house where we were watching the first half of Mac and Me

[54:36] and the parents came in and said,

[54:40] You're going to have to finish watching this movie tomorrow because it's late.

[54:44] We were all like, but do we have to finish watching it tomorrow?

[54:48] Just leave it unfinished here? We did finish it the next day though.

[54:52] So guys, I think we're running out of time in this episode of Flophouse Mini Cinematic Mechanic.

[54:56] But I think we did what we needed to do. I think we fixed heartbeats.

[55:00] The characters are – they have a stronger reason for leaving the factory,

[55:04] which is to learn the taste of a banana daiquiri.

[55:08] There's more of a starring role in it.

[55:12] Andy Coffin's voice, I assume we'll have to – we can just take it for granted that it's changed.

[55:16] Dan can just jump onto Facebook Messenger and hit up Uncle Paul Schrader

[55:20] and tell him all these tweaks and changes.

[55:24] You guys talk through Letterboxd a lot, right?

[55:28] They're not dumb characters anymore. They're just kind of unknowing.

[55:32] They're much more like C-3PO. They have cannons in their arms and mitten hands.

[55:36] They kind of make a baby as much later on after their parts start becoming fleshy, Cronenberg style.

[55:40] The power of kind of love, or maybe they're a different version of this.

[55:44] They're literally stealing the organs of humans and putting them in their own bodies.

[55:48] Make them more lovable.

[55:52] Kind of like a more criminal version of Jonas from the Book of the New Sun,

[55:56] a robot who's getting flesh parts put on him, a reverse Tin Man.

[56:00] By the end of the movie, they're so human that they're no longer robots,

[56:04] which they did by having a banana daiquiri poured into its drink intake port.

[56:08] Perfect film.

[56:12] Perfect film. We keep the same score. Great score.

[56:16] And we add in a scene at a bar, a scene at a water park.

[56:20] A second scene with Dick Miller.

[56:24] Maybe that's just Dan in his Dick Miller costume.

[56:28] I'll play him.

[56:32] American Gigolo Mishima.

[56:36] First performed. The great films in Paul Schrader's film.

[56:40] Oh yeah, Blue Collar. Thank you.

[56:44] You know what? It's time for us to go back and watch some more Paul Schrader movies,

[56:48] including Heartbeats. Thanks so much, everybody, for listening.

[56:52] I want to thank my guest slash co-hosts, Dan McCoy and Stuart Wellington.

[56:56] I want to thank our producer, Alex Smith.

[57:00] I want to thank my co-host, Michael Doughty, where he is a talented musician,

[57:04] but he's the one who edits this and makes it all good and probably put some sound effects in there here and there.

[57:08] I don't know, maybe some like, you know, those kinds of sound effects.

[57:12] Ratchet, ratchet, you know, gearhead type sound effects.

[57:16] We are a member of the Maximum Fun Podcast Network.

[57:20] Go to MaximumFun.org and listen to some of the other great podcasts that are there.

[57:24] Go to MaximumFun.org slash join if you want to become a member as a pledger.

[57:28] I'm not stopping you.

[57:32] Until next week, when we will be talking about a movie as opposed to nonsense.

[57:36] I think we'll get some nonsense in there. Join us next time.

[57:40] We're going to be talking about the electric state. And until then, I remain Elliot Kalin.

[57:44] I've been Dan McCoy. I am Stuart bot Wellington bot.

[57:48] Oh, no, it works backwards. We've got to fix

[57:52] to it before the next episode.

[57:58] Maximum Fun,

[58:02] a worker owned network of artists owned shows supported

[58:06] directly by you.

FH Mini 125 - Cinematic Mechanics

Transcript

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