Ep. #292 - Welcome to Marwen

[0:00] On this episode we discuss, Welcome to Marwen!

[0:04] What happens when you take the genuinely fascinating true story of a man dealing with trauma through the arts,

[0:10] and Forrest Gumpify it by about 400%?

[0:30] Hey everyone and welcome to the Flophouse, I'm Dan McCoy.

[0:44] Oh hey there Dan, it's me, Stuart Wellington.

[0:47] Elliot Kalin over here in sunny Los Angeles.

[0:50] Hey guys, let me just get in, if you can hear that sound, that's the waves on the beach,

[0:55] because I'm over in Santa Monica at the famous pier.

[0:58] Oh man, have an iced cream on me.

[1:02] How on you, are you going to Venmo me the couple dollars for it?

[1:06] Yeah, I mean I didn't think we had to get into the nitty gritty details.

[1:10] I just wonder how it's going to be on you when we're like so far away from each other.

[1:15] I mean, it's a crazy world we live in now Elliot.

[1:18] I'm not going to like put it in a fucking FedEx box and mail it to you.

[1:21] Yeah, can you FedEx me some ice cream?

[1:23] Uh huh, let me just push Nermal aside and stuff the ice cream in there.

[1:27] No, that's going to Abu Dhabi.

[1:29] It's addressed to Abu Dhabi.

[1:31] Somebody in Abu Dhabi is going to be like, ice cream? Where's my cat that I ordered?

[1:37] Guys, what does it say that I have to stop and think about how I start the show every time it happens?

[1:44] I don't know, I mean, it's weird how like a little trickle of blood comes out of your nostril.

[1:52] Yeah, like a scanner who's working real hard to blow up a head.

[1:56] Yeah, it's like after a while, like stick some Kleenex up in there first, dude.

[2:00] Don't get it all over your beard hairs.

[2:02] So, we're a bad movie podcast, but you know what?

[2:06] I'm going to pose a question, guys.

[2:08] What if instead of talking about the movie, we didn't?

[2:12] That would be very pleasant.

[2:15] No, Stuart, we know our curse.

[2:18] Our curse to talk about movies that we've also chosen to talk about.

[2:22] I mean, couldn't we just change the name of the podcast to like the Housemates or the Flop Buddies?

[2:31] Yeah, yeah.

[2:33] I won't talk about the movies that we like discussed talking about instead of this one,

[2:39] but like we were going through like a list and then Elliot said, oh shit, Welcome to Marwen is available streaming.

[2:45] And I like sighed, I'm like, we really should do that one.

[2:51] Yeah, let's not have fun this time.

[2:53] Yeah.

[2:54] So, but Dan, you thought you said, hey, hey, you know what?

[2:58] Let me take on my shoulders the burden of summarizing Welcome to Marwen.

[3:02] I don't think I said that.

[3:04] And I see the notes he's taken.

[3:07] He's actually typed them up and printed them out.

[3:09] Oh, wow.

[3:10] I mean, that's like 300 pages right there, Dan.

[3:12] Yeah, and you've laminated them too.

[3:14] I mean, that's amazing just for archival purposes, I suppose.

[3:18] To explain the joke for the listeners, the thing is, my notes are usually non-existent

[3:24] and certainly less extensive than either Stuart or Elliot.

[3:28] Are they saved in meme form in the photo album on your phone?

[3:32] That's right.

[3:35] That would be a lot of work if I painstakingly created memes.

[3:39] I don't know.

[3:40] I think painstaking and memes don't really go together.

[3:44] I need to have a fourth font in this meme or it won't work.

[3:49] Now, I've never thought of the word painstaking.

[3:51] But do you think it was because craftsmen in medieval or ancient times had to do a great job

[3:57] and the stakes were that they would be given pain if they didn't?

[4:00] Do you think that's where painstaking comes from?

[4:02] Or if you fucked up, somebody hits you in the chest with a stake and you're in pain afterwards.

[4:06] I think you're misapprehending the two words that are put together, which are pains and taking.

[4:12] I believe it's pain and staking.

[4:15] Or what if it's like the pain of eating too big of a steak and it fills your tummy up too much?

[4:22] I've been there.

[4:23] I've been there.

[4:24] Not too many times.

[4:25] Usually my tummy can handle it, but I've been there before.

[4:27] Now, Dan, I know with Welcome Tomorrow and you said, and I remember this very clearly.

[4:30] In fact, I wrote it down and I'll just read it.

[4:32] You said,

[4:34] I feel most comfortable handling with extreme sensitivity the delicate task of criticizing the film

[4:41] without criticizing those with trauma or mental issues that the movie is attempting to portray.

[4:50] I think that it really sets a high bar for yourself to achieve that level of eloquence

[4:54] and, again, sensitivity to people who are dealing with it.

[4:56] But you seem really confident that you can do it, so take it away.

[5:01] There are a lot of minefields in this movie, and I think that the movie creates them.

[5:05] Although, weird enough, the movie doesn't actually feature any minefields.

[5:09] No, that's true.

[5:10] Just a lot of gunfire.

[5:11] A lot of gunfire.

[5:13] As a forewarning, that was a joke way of forewarning,

[5:15] that everything we say about this movie is meant to be just about the movie,

[5:19] and we hope we don't say anything that is hurtful or can be taken in a way we're not intending it to

[5:25] about those who are struggling with PTSD.

[5:29] Also, I genuinely kind of don't know how to refer to the main character.

[5:36] His name is Mark.

[5:38] I know, but I refer to his medical problems because he has also mental issues as a result of being beaten.

[5:48] His memories have, as he says, been kicked out of his head,

[5:52] and he also seems to be kind of foggy in day-to-day life.

[5:56] He has to write himself notes to remember to do various things.

[5:58] But that's probably also tied to the medication.

[6:01] That may be true, but I apologize in advance if I am not adequately sensitive

[6:09] in however I come down on referring to his issues.

[6:13] You're like, I apologize if I'm not sensitive enough.

[6:15] Anyway, this nutball, Dan, no, come on.

[6:19] This loony-goony bird, Dan, come on.

[6:22] Yeah, I mean, we've been doing the occasional content warnings.

[6:27] This deals with a hate crime.

[6:29] It deals with severe trauma.

[6:32] So just be aware.

[6:34] And I'm going to try to articulate why the movie genuinely upset me in its handling

[6:41] of somebody dealing with post-traumatic stress disorder in the wake of a violent attack.

[6:48] And also how it – well, we'll talk about it.

[6:50] But I was so intrigued by this movie that I saw the documentary that it's based on, Marwen Call,

[6:55] because I was like – as with The Dark Tower, where I was like, I've never read it,

[6:59] but this movie is so boring.

[7:00] I wonder what was in the book that made someone want to make a movie of it and wreck it this way.

[7:05] With this movie, I was like, what is it about this original story that made them want to tell it

[7:09] in such a strange, disjointed way?

[7:11] And spoiler alert, the documentary is better.

[7:15] But Dan, explain some background for us.

[7:17] What answers did you find on your vision quest?

[7:20] Well, what I found, which I'll get into hopefully, is that like the guy this movie is based on,

[7:24] because it's based on a true story, is a much more complicated and interesting character

[7:29] who was dealing with major issues even before the attack that left him with PTSD

[7:35] and trauma and everything.

[7:37] And so it's like they really like teddy-beared him up for the movie in a way that made me unhappy.

[7:44] But anyway, I think we're talking around it, but not talking about it.

[7:47] It's kind of interesting because I was also inspired to – this movie inspired me to look up

[7:52] special effects pictures from the movie Small Soldiers, which is also a movie that features

[7:57] toys getting into troubles.

[8:00] So we all reacted to this with digging in in different ways.

[8:04] Yeah, I will say that I saw Marwin Cole a while back closer to when it was released,

[8:09] so I have an inkling of the real story.

[8:12] We get it. You're cooler than me.

[8:13] No, I'm just saying I'll have to rely on you, Elliot, a bit more for – you've seen it.

[8:19] It's fresher in your mind.

[8:20] Yeah, you were on the Marwin Cole tip before Bobby Z even.

[8:24] That's Robert Zemeckis, everybody.

[8:26] Okay, so yeah, Robert – before we get into it, let me just say we've been putting this off for a long time.

[8:32] Robert Zemeckis up until –

[8:34] Beowulf is Dan's favorite movie.

[8:36] Up until Forrest Gump, which I don't care for, was one of my favorite directors.

[8:40] And since then, other than Castaway, which I liked, he has been churning out the most unadulterated crap,

[8:47] and I don't know what happened to him.

[8:49] Wow, that's a harsh way to describe it.

[8:51] Well, he – I mean, the thing about Robert Zemeckis that I liked about his early work is it was funny and light,

[8:57] and it had this mean streak to it underneath the surface.

[9:01] And after Forrest Gump, I feel like he was like, okay, what people want from me is sap.

[9:06] Oh, I see.

[9:07] And he just continues to layer that on.

[9:09] I mean, outside of the Back to the Future movies, can you give me an example of this dark side?

[9:15] Of course, Back to the Future being movies where a guy has to keep trying not to have sex with his mom.

[9:21] I mean –

[9:22] Like Use Cars, one of those first movies, a very cynical film.

[9:25] Oh, yeah.

[9:26] Death Becomes Her is like this gory satire about aging and Hollywood.

[9:33] And Who Framed Roger Rabbit is a pretty dark movie for a movie about cartoons.

[9:37] It is about a murder, and you see a cartoon shoe killed on screen horrifically in a scene that –

[9:44] I remember when Pete's – people for the ethical treatment of shoes saw that scene, and they were really unhappy about it.

[9:52] And Zemeckis was one of the producers of Tales from the Crypt series, and he produced The Frightener.

[9:57] And he directed a bunch of those episodes too, right?

[9:59] Yeah.

[10:00] Him, but it seems to have all gone away. I don't know. Maybe it's just cuz he's older and more sensitive

[10:04] Who knows but anyway, but he's someone who he still has like the technique his technical skills are still really hot like

[10:11] Flight which was a movie

[10:12] I did not like the plane crash scene is that in that or almost crash scene and that is amazing and like

[10:19] Even in even in each of the even in his bad movies. He still has like this real technical skill

[10:25] Yeah, which is why in this movie. I was amazed at how

[10:28] Unpleasant the like action sequences were yeah partly partly because they were being acted out by

[10:34] CGI dolls with real human faces on them, but Dan you explain you let's finally get into this. Okay, the movie

[10:40] opens on

[10:42] Our action figure star the ultra you of the main character

[10:46] Captain hoagie in an airplane and if you didn't know what this movie was about

[10:51] Seeing it at the beginning you'd be like, why does Steve Carell look so smooth?

[10:57] Yeah

[10:59] But he looks so smooth because he's been listening to a lot of Rob Thomas lately. Yeah

[11:04] This is the yeah the action figure version

[11:08] This is a fantasy sequence. He's in a World War two airplane. He's piloting

[11:12] He's hit by enemy fire and he has to get out of the plane. He parachutes out

[11:16] Yeah, this this sequence kind of teases out that it's that he's an action figure

[11:20] I think like at first you're just like oh, he looks weird and then it isn't until he like burn his feet

[11:27] Like yeah, he burns his feet on the wings. Sorry about that

[11:30] So is and then like he puts the puts the fire out and he has to he burns his boots up or shoes up in

[11:35] The process and you realize that his feet are like weird doll feet. He has toy feet. Ah

[11:43] I've gone to the doctor for toy feet before. Okay, it's horrifying

[11:47] Your toes fused together and get little holes in the bottom of your heels so that you can be attached to like a vehicle

[11:53] Yeah, yeah, it must be nice to have good health insurance

[11:58] But which is another issue with this movie this movie should be about a guy who has been failed by the health insurance

[12:05] Industry and they barely touch on that but Dan keep going. He's still just a doll who's been shot down in

[12:11] WW2 right now. Yeah, and he finds some women's high heels

[12:16] which he puts on to replace his boots and

[12:20] This will become a important point

[12:23] Um, but he's uh, yeah, do you feel like do you feel like this moment is played for laughs at all or I

[12:31] Feel like it's it feels like it's kind of tough for me because the this is something that comes up multiple times throughout the

[12:37] Movie and I feel like the movie is both trying to say like hey everybody

[12:42] Should be who they are and not be ashamed about it. But also sometimes he uses that

[12:48] That is like a like a punchline, but I don't know well spoiler alert the

[12:54] the the real mark is

[12:57] He's not uh, he's not a foot fetishist. I mean, he likes women's shoes. He's basically a

[13:03] cross-dresser who only

[13:05] Really wears the shoes and he says that as connection to femininity

[13:10] Like yeah, he he has a he's kind of not able to fully articulate it in the documentary

[13:15] But here in the movie

[13:16] He says that he loves the essence of women and what and wearing

[13:20] Women's shoes connects him to that essence of women and he just loves women so much

[13:24] But he says dames sometimes and it's supposed to be like, oh, sorry. I'm speaking to you the way captain

[13:29] Hoagie would and it's like come on with it. It's I don't know

[13:33] Yeah, I was something that is something that's an issue almost from the very beginning is that Steve Carell is kind of very miscast in

[13:40] this movie and

[13:42] After seeing Marwan called the documentary I was like, why was Jeremy Renner not the star of this movie?

[13:46] He looks like the guy from the movie and he sounds like the guy from from the documentary like it's that's some that's some serious

[13:53] Wizard casting right there. No, no, but also like Jeremy Renner plays guys who are like

[13:58] Kind of off-putting and a little like he there's something about him. That's a little weird and dark and

[14:04] Based on interviews. He plays himself as kind of off-putting

[14:08] Yeah, it's like there and in the documentary the real Mark Hogan camp is like kind of an off-putting guy like you sympathize with him

[14:15] through the movie, but he's kind of a guy who

[14:17] says things that are

[14:19] Off-putting and like is it's not it's hard to deal with at times and like Jeremy Renner would just would have been much better

[14:25] But I guess he signed he signed his soul to the devil that he would only play Hawkeye for years, I guess so

[14:31] Yeah

[14:32] so long story short

[14:35] German soldiers

[14:37] You know find hoagie. They're surrounding him. They like make fun of his shoes. Hoagie is

[14:42] rescued by a group of gun totin women. Mm-hmm turns out these are his buddies from Marwen the

[14:49] Fictional town that they all live in together in Belgium. Yeah, that is

[14:54] basically only women like and

[14:57] They all love hoagie but can't get too close to him because that would be bad as we'll find out why later

[15:04] But I Dan what's what's the horrifying secret of Marwen is it actually a

[15:08] Is it actually as we hope it is a real Belgian World War two town inhabited by doll people

[15:16] Are you saying that the horrifying secret is the secret is that there's no Marwen in Belgium

[15:20] No, just that like it's all that this is all that this is all what Mark Hogan camp has been

[15:25] This is a fantasy world. He's put together for himself. Yeah, we see it cuts to him

[15:30] Photographing these dolls and he

[15:32] This is the thing he does

[15:34] Yeah, he's all's in elaborate scenarios that he is like created stories around

[15:38] And he and he's built this like died like I guess almost diorama in the in the backyard of his home

[15:46] Yeah, yeah, and I mean, yeah, it's a whole I mean, it's like a miniature town

[15:51] Yeah, and the it's a model village

[15:54] And so as as he'll explain eight or nine times throughout the course of the movie he makes he takes store-bought

[16:01] dolls and figures and makes them into kind of alter egos for himself and the people that he knows and he puts them through

[16:07] World War two adventures and photographs them and he'll and this is his way of dealing with

[16:12] His trauma issues and he'll explain this as I said eight or nine times throughout the film to different characters

[16:18] Some of whom already know about it. Mm-hmm

[16:21] yeah, and

[16:23] So but this information gets doled out to us very

[16:26] slowly

[16:28] like what you know, like what happened like it gets explained over and over again, but the movie sort of keeps it a secret for a

[16:34] while and

[16:36] my I was watching it with my girlfriend and she was talking about like how she doesn't

[16:40] Kind of know what the main thrust of the story was supposed to be because later on

[16:44] Yes

[16:44] There's a lot about like whether he's gonna testify against these people who attacked him and there's also stuff about

[16:50] Like there's a kind of a budding like one-sided romance that like maybe that's what the movie is about

[16:56] But like for a long time

[16:58] it's also the ticking clock of his the art show that he is being encouraged to go to but

[17:03] Initially, he seems wary about going and then the his concerns disappear right her in the movie

[17:09] But the movie like but like the large thrust the movie for a lot of it seems to just be like let's puzzle out

[17:15] the life of this guy where

[17:19] We're talking about how like this is a disease that like movies have these days

[17:23] It seems like they withhold information just to like create this false

[17:27] sense of like mystery and suspense when it's just like well

[17:31] you know, like why don't actually clue us into what's going on and see what he like how he deals with it rather than like

[17:36] Dole that out. So well, it's like I think it's I think a big a big

[17:41] example of that is the fact that it opens with this World War two scene which is like

[17:45] It's really old-fashioned like open it with a bang and there's a crazy scene and then we'll explain it later

[17:50] But what it does is like it instantly

[17:54] Confuses you it's not an entertaining scene. So right off the bat. You're like, why am I watching this?

[17:59] Like what is this?

[18:00] Like is this toy story?

[18:02] but like not like if you don't already know the story of the movie then you are at a loss as to why you were watching

[18:07] This movie and I would say and this is me being Dan. I'm gonna go out on limb here

[18:13] Okay, I was making this movie if I was making welcome to Marwyn again

[18:16] I wouldn't call it that because it's a weird it makes it sound like

[18:20] What's that Road to Wellville or something like that?

[18:22] It sounds like a movie about like a kooky town that like I would

[18:26] Not have these fantasy sequences and I would not be inside Mark Hogan camps head through the whole movie

[18:32] it feels like if you want if what you want to do is

[18:34] Puzzle out this interesting guy that the best way to do that is not from inside his head

[18:40] Living his adventures and maybe I would hold off on showing those as full-blooded things until like

[18:45] the very end of the movie when you finally get a chance to see the world the way he sees or something the way that

[18:50] like

[18:51] Lawrence Olivier's Henry the fifth like starts in a theater and then more and becomes more and more set in a natural in a real

[18:58] World, but yeah, it feels like by jumping straight into Mark Hogan's he camps head. The audience is really confused and also like

[19:05] it's it's it's just like

[19:08] It makes it seem like his

[19:10] The adventures he's having are like cool and fun and like yeah, we're supposed to be like just straightforward enjoying them

[19:17] you know, but clearly he's in pain and it's a weird thing to like use somebody's pain fantasies as

[19:23] Like cool action scenes by that

[19:25] So I read a review of it where they compared it to sucker punch and it's like oh, yeah

[19:29] Sucker punch was a movie where it was like

[19:31] Don't you like this stuff?

[19:32] Well, you're a jerk for liking it and welcome to Marwan is a movie

[19:35] It was like isn't this cool that this guy does this stuff with dolls? Anyway, he has some problems, but isn't it cool?

[19:40] Yeah

[19:41] So you're saying if you had made this movie the opening credits would have been a montage with like maybe a Randy Newman song

[19:48] And like a montage of picture like just shots of his house and the dolls set up exactly as he's getting older growing up

[19:55] From a little boy to like an older kid

[19:57] Then it would be Mark Hogan cams birthday

[20:00] All the people in Marwencall, or Marwen as it is in the movie,

[20:04] are really worried because a new doll's coming

[20:06] and they're really worried about being overtaken.

[20:09] And he gets like a space doll

[20:11] and he tries to incorporate that into it.

[20:13] He goes to Pizza Planet, loses the dolls,

[20:15] and now they've got to make their way home.

[20:17] I call it Toy Story.

[20:19] Yeah, I mean, speaking of Toy Story,

[20:21] like this movie has three separate tones

[20:24] and I'll get into that later, I think,

[20:26] but like this first,

[20:27] but one of the big mistakes it has

[20:30] these fantasy sequence, the first tone is kind of like,

[20:34] they feel like a step down

[20:38] from like a DreamWorks, like CGI children's movie almost.

[20:42] Like they've got this like weird, like goofy,

[20:45] like feel to them.

[20:47] And also everything looks so slick.

[20:50] Like, I feel like you would, I don't know,

[20:52] I feel like for this story, you want the fantasies,

[20:55] if they're gonna exist, to look a little more handmade,

[20:57] like a Michel Gondry kind of thing, maybe.

[21:01] Or you do them like stop motion or something like that,

[21:03] where they look like dolls

[21:05] instead of looking like weird CGI people

[21:07] that are made like dolls.

[21:08] Because there's also something super creepy

[21:11] about seeing especially the real actresses' faces

[21:14] on top of these like super exaggerated Barbie sexy bodies.

[21:18] And there's a scene where one of the dolls

[21:21] and like, and Mark Hogenkamp,

[21:22] he deals with a lot of, in his pictures,

[21:25] he has a lot of like adventures

[21:27] where the women are losing their clothes.

[21:28] But there's a scene where one of the dolls,

[21:31] which has a real actresses' face motion captured onto it,

[21:34] her shirt has been ripped open

[21:36] and she's running away from the Nazi soldiers

[21:37] that have attacked her.

[21:38] And she has like Barbie boobs with no nipples

[21:42] that look like plastic,

[21:43] but they're still bouncing when she runs

[21:45] as if they're real boobs.

[21:46] And the physics and the trying to figure out

[21:49] what was going on with the anatomy of this doll

[21:51] and how it must feel for an actress to see her face

[21:54] on top of like a weird topless half-person doll.

[21:57] It was like, it was just very,

[22:00] it was, I found the whole thing like,

[22:01] I don't think you really thought through

[22:04] the meaning of what you're doing with this moment,

[22:07] you know, it just really, it felt like a really messy,

[22:11] you know, but anyway, we're.

[22:12] So this movie, sorry, yeah, we have,

[22:14] we're talking a lot about theory,

[22:16] but not actually what happens in the movie.

[22:17] And like, so this movie jumps around so much

[22:20] that me with my extensive notes,

[22:22] I can't actually remember like what the next scene is.

[22:26] His caregiver arrives.

[22:28] Okay, so yeah.

[22:30] There's some new neighbors across the street.

[22:32] There's Nicole, a woman who is running

[22:35] from her bad boy man, Kurt.

[22:37] And you know Kurt's bad because later on

[22:39] when he drives up, Cat Scratch Fever is playing in his car

[22:42] because Robert Zemeckis never met a pop song

[22:44] he didn't want to shove into his movie.

[22:47] And then his caregiver arrives,

[22:48] who's a Russian homemade played by Brienne of Tarth.

[22:52] This is the only time we see this character in the flesh.

[22:54] It's always in the plastic after that as a doll person.

[22:57] Well, she only comes once a month

[22:58] and this movie takes place in a relatively tight window.

[23:01] That's true.

[23:02] He has, and she advises him not to,

[23:05] he has to take his meds, but don't take too many meds,

[23:08] which is like a real Chekhov's pill.

[23:10] You know, there's gonna be a problem with meds later on.

[23:12] He's got this art show coming up

[23:13] and he goes through his scrapbook of memories because,

[23:16] and this is something that was not made

[23:17] as clear as it should have been.

[23:19] He has no memories of anything before the attack.

[23:21] His entire life before then is a mystery to him.

[23:24] And he talks in the documentary about like,

[23:27] oh, I was married, I guess,

[23:28] because I have pictures of me getting married,

[23:30] but I don't remember anything about my life with a wife

[23:33] or who this person was.

[23:34] And that's something that the movie doesn't really dig into.

[23:36] He kind of like, we know that he was assaulted in some way

[23:39] and his life fell apart and he had to recover from it.

[23:42] He had a real tough one-legged veteran physical therapist

[23:46] played by Janelle Monae again.

[23:48] She has one scene where she's a person

[23:50] and the rest of her scenes are just as dolls.

[23:51] And we see an adventure in the village of Marwen

[23:55] that involves a new villain character, uh-oh, Dejah Thoris,

[24:00] the 3,000-year-old Belgian witch

[24:02] who wants to make the other girls disappear

[24:03] because she wants Hoagie to herself forever.

[24:05] Yeah, and this is like,

[24:07] this is another like kind of weird choice

[24:10] that the movie makes.

[24:11] It's a very common name, Dan.

[24:13] Well, it's from-

[24:15] It's from the John Carter stories.

[24:16] Yeah, exactly.

[24:17] I know, that's why it's a very,

[24:19] it's a coincidence that she has the same name

[24:21] as the Princess of Mars.

[24:23] But like, another weird choice the movie makes

[24:26] is to turn it almost into this like fantasy film

[24:31] where later on, like Mark is interacting directly

[24:36] with this evil witch character who's trying to tempt him.

[24:40] And like, it turns it into this, I don't know,

[24:44] like almost this science fiction struggle, almost.

[24:49] Even though we know that like it's a fantasy woman,

[24:51] it's the, because it's this CGI stuff,

[24:55] it gives it this weird like association,

[24:57] I feel like, in movies.

[24:58] And also, it becomes very clear to us

[25:01] way before it becomes clear to Mark

[25:03] that this is, this evil witch

[25:05] is the embodiment of his pill addiction.

[25:08] Well, and his depression.

[25:09] It is, this evil witch is the Thanatos

[25:14] in his personality that wants to escape life by,

[25:18] through either medication or over medication

[25:20] to the point of suicide.

[25:21] But she's the exact same color as the pills he's taking.

[25:23] So it's a pretty clear,

[25:25] she turns people into pills and so forth.

[25:27] And she also, while he's sleeping,

[25:29] she whispers in his ear like Timothy the Mouse in Dumbo

[25:33] is saying like, join me forever.

[25:35] Take the pills and join me forever.

[25:37] And it's like, and so at the very end

[25:39] when, spoiler alert, Hoagie has the realization

[25:42] that this witch is a bad guy

[25:45] and he literally says like, you're Mark's problem.

[25:47] It's like, yeah, we know.

[25:49] Thanks, buddy.

[25:51] I mean, we kind of knew she was the problem

[25:53] from the first scene she shows up in.

[25:55] Yeah, it's almost like if the movie Alien,

[25:59] if Sigourney Weaver was like,

[26:01] why is everyone napping on the job?

[26:03] I can't find them.

[26:04] And then she leaves in the escape pod

[26:05] and then an alien shows up and she's like,

[26:07] oh, it was an alien.

[26:09] And the audience would be like,

[26:10] yeah, dude, the movie's called Alien.

[26:11] We saw an alien attacking people.

[26:13] Like that's kind of what that feels like.

[26:14] That realization.

[26:15] And the other major problem I had with this character

[26:17] is like, so the real like Mark, you know,

[26:20] used this art to work through real things in his real life.

[26:24] And there were like parallels to his real life.

[26:27] But I don't think there were like,

[26:30] the movie makes it like such a direct parallel

[26:32] to like problems that he has in his life

[26:34] or things going on.

[26:35] Like it's like almost a one-to-one allegory the whole time.

[26:40] And I don't think that's how it works.

[26:42] Like it's such a simplification.

[26:44] There were so many things in the movie where I was like,

[26:46] that I'm sure they shoehorned in there.

[26:48] They made it up.

[26:49] And then watching the documentary afterwards,

[26:50] like, oh, a lot of these scenes are adventures

[26:52] that Mark came up with for his characters.

[26:54] And like later on Dejah Thoris is like,

[26:56] build me a time machine.

[26:57] And he builds her time machine,

[26:58] which looks a little too much like the time machine

[27:01] for Back to the Future.

[27:02] But in the documentary, he's like, oh yeah,

[27:03] Dejah Thoris told me to build her a time machine.

[27:05] So I had to do it.

[27:06] Like he does interact with these characters

[27:09] in a way that the movie is trying to illustrate,

[27:11] but the movie is illustrating it so literally.

[27:14] And it's like, the whole time I was watching it,

[27:17] I was like, why do I not like the way

[27:19] this movie is using fantasy scenes?

[27:20] But I do like the way that like Brazil

[27:23] is using fantasy scenes.

[27:24] And it's almost like Brazil is not pretending

[27:27] that when Jonathan Pryce is hallucinating a giant samurai,

[27:30] that it is fun, you know, or exciting.

[27:34] It's just like frightening.

[27:36] And it's like, in this there's,

[27:38] I think they're trying to handle

[27:39] these very complicated emotions

[27:42] and this very complicated mental life

[27:44] that Mark Hogan Camp has constructed.

[27:46] But they're trying to do it by shoving it into like,

[27:48] kind of the box of a movie

[27:50] that you can release around Christmas.

[27:52] They're trying to do it by shoving it

[27:53] into Forrest Gump, essentially.

[27:55] Where like, it's about somebody who's like,

[27:57] kind of difficult, but kind of cute.

[27:59] And like, or it's like as good as it gets.

[28:02] Like if as good as it gets,

[28:03] if Jack Nicholson also was imagining

[28:05] that he was a knight at different points in the movie.

[28:07] Like, that's kind of what this feels like.

[28:10] I got a definite as good as it gets vibe out of this one.

[28:14] Which is ironic because this movie

[28:15] is not as good as it gets.

[28:19] In title or in what, quality?

[28:21] Yeah, all of those things.

[28:23] So, yeah, I mean, we're starting to learn

[28:26] that he has a small world outside of his home.

[28:30] He spent some time at what a local bar and grill

[28:33] called the Avalanche. Yeah, he works there.

[28:35] He also, that he has been the victim of an assault

[28:40] and it's an ongoing thing that he has an upcoming,

[28:44] what a sentencing hearing for the guys who assaulted him.

[28:47] And that attending that gives him extreme amounts of stress.

[28:53] Like it shuts down and disappears

[28:57] into a fantasy world involving bullets.

[28:59] Everyone keeps saying that if you don't show up,

[29:02] we want you to show up so they really throw the book

[29:04] at these guys.

[29:04] And it makes me wonder like what kind of judge

[29:06] would be like, well, you beat a man almost to death,

[29:09] but I guess he didn't think it was worth showing up today.

[29:12] So I'm gonna let you free.

[29:14] If it didn't matter to him that you were going to jail,

[29:16] why should it matter to me?

[29:17] A judge who has no feelings about this one way or the other.

[29:20] Case dismissed.

[29:22] I've been watching a lot of,

[29:23] well, my wife's been watching a lot of episodes

[29:25] of Caught in Providence lately

[29:27] and I've been catching it in the background.

[29:28] And I feel the judge on that show

[29:30] would totally understand Mark

[29:32] and still give them a rough sentence.

[29:35] Yeah, what I'm describing, I guess,

[29:36] is more of a Maximum Bob type scenario.

[29:40] Yeah.

[29:40] There's also, Mark has, he has his friend at the bar,

[29:43] Carlala, and he goes to the hobby store

[29:46] where the woman there clearly has a crush on him

[29:48] and is trying to ask him out, but he's very like,

[29:50] he's very evasive and he clearly has a crush

[29:53] on his new neighbor, Nicole.

[29:55] Yeah, and the woman at the hobby store

[29:56] is played by the great Merritt Weaver.

[29:58] Yeah, I was gonna say that myself.

[30:00] So great, she's always great in everything, even here.

[30:02] And she's like, this new SS General doll came in.

[30:07] Do you want it?

[30:07] It looks really real.

[30:08] And he freaks out and hits a remote control

[30:10] which causes the volume to go up on a TV

[30:12] that happens to be showing a story

[30:15] about the sentencing of his attackers.

[30:16] And he runs out, and it's a Rube Goldberg trauma moment.

[30:20] Holy shit, that was exactly what my girlfriend said

[30:23] while watching it.

[30:24] She's like, what are all these Rube Goldberg twists

[30:26] that happen in this?

[30:27] Because he turns the volume up

[30:28] and then he knocks the remote on the ground

[30:30] and the batteries fly out.

[30:32] Yeah, so he can't change the channel.

[30:33] And the woman from the hobby store just cannot take it in.

[30:36] It's like Tony Todd is in the background

[30:38] like making things break so that he can't escape his fate.

[30:42] You weren't killed by that horrible assault.

[30:44] I guess I'll come after you afterwards.

[30:46] Everyone's like, Tony Todd, this is kind of tasteless

[30:49] for you to be doing this.

[30:51] This isn't like fun, this is really upsetting.

[30:53] And he's like, death is upsetting.

[30:54] Let's stop using death as an entertainment, huh?

[30:58] I'm trying to get respect for the end of life.

[31:01] Mean anything to you?

[31:02] And they're like, okay, okay, I get it.

[31:03] He's like, I'm trying to raise my profile

[31:05] so they'll put my character on the new Charmed show.

[31:08] And the woman at the hobby store,

[31:13] she just cannot take the hint

[31:14] that he does not want this SS doll

[31:16] and clearly it is triggering him.

[31:17] Because every time, she keeps trying to hand it to him

[31:21] and he keeps screaming every time he sees it.

[31:24] It's like, he doesn't want this doll.

[31:26] Just like stop trying to sell him this doll.

[31:29] Yeah, maybe she doesn't really like him.

[31:31] Maybe she's just like, he's my cash cow.

[31:34] I apparently run a doll store in this small town.

[31:38] He's the only one buying this.

[31:40] Yeah, I mean, they have a pretty good selection of stuff.

[31:42] Yeah.

[31:43] I mean, it's an amazing hobby shop.

[31:45] Guys, I don't know if I've talked about this

[31:46] on the show very much, but one of my hobbies

[31:49] is I love building and painting figurines.

[31:53] So I have a couple of opinions about this show or the show.

[31:56] I mean, this movie.

[31:58] Movies aren't shows, I know that now.

[32:00] I've gone through a lot of therapy sessions.

[32:02] A lot of crew people talk about being on a show

[32:06] when they're talking about working on a movie.

[32:08] Yeah, so maybe you're just plugging into that.

[32:11] Thanks for revealing a little bit of industry info for me.

[32:17] That's Dan's film glossary.

[32:19] Like that's Dan's film vocab for the day.

[32:21] I wasn't trying to Dan Splane, I was trying to help out.

[32:24] Okay, well, you know, sometimes helping out

[32:27] doesn't always work out.

[32:30] But the way he has his little model Jeep

[32:34] that he takes his dolls around in

[32:36] with a little stick and a leash,

[32:38] the whole time you're gonna damage your stuff.

[32:41] You're gonna mess everything up.

[32:43] And luckily nothing ever, like every time there's a chance

[32:46] where somebody could damage his toys,

[32:48] nothing actually happens.

[32:49] There's a point where a car almost runs it over

[32:50] and I got very nervous for his toys.

[32:52] Because as somebody who has built and painted

[32:54] a lot of figurines, I live in constant fear

[32:57] that somebody will just come and damage them all.

[33:00] So here's the thing about him is that

[33:02] when it comes to his figures, he's not a collector.

[33:05] He's using them the way they were meant to be used,

[33:08] playing with them, not just sticking them on a shelf.

[33:10] And so he talks in the documentary about how like,

[33:13] he got this Jeep and the tires look too real.

[33:16] They look too new, they look too factory made.

[33:19] And that's why he brings it around everywhere with him

[33:22] so he can get real wear on the tires.

[33:24] So it'll look like something

[33:25] that's been through World War II.

[33:26] So in a way, Stu, it's just his way of bringing

[33:30] that next level of paint and realism to the figures.

[33:33] I mean, I would say maybe a little bit of texture paint

[33:36] and some weathering powders.

[33:37] I mean, they do a lot of really cool stuff

[33:39] with model paints nowadays.

[33:41] Now, I wish this was a bigger podcast

[33:44] so that deadline could be, or someplace would be like,

[33:47] Stuart Wellington slams Mark Hogenkamp

[33:51] for the way he's weathering his toys.

[33:53] I shouldn't say toys, I should say figures

[33:56] or I don't know, art materials.

[33:58] Thank you.

[33:59] And there's an interesting, in the documentary,

[34:01] they're kind of riding the line trying to figure out,

[34:03] is this art or is this therapy or what is it exactly?

[34:07] And the movie just doesn't,

[34:08] the movie just treats it kind of like play, which is weird.

[34:10] Yeah, like an eccentricity.

[34:13] Yes, so there's more hot Nazi action

[34:17] between the bad guy dolls and the good guy lady dolls.

[34:20] And he gets a Nicole doll and the lady from the hobby shop

[34:25] is like, hey, I'll go to the sentencing with you.

[34:26] And he's like, nah, I don't wanna go.

[34:28] And that's when Nicole stops by to introduce herself.

[34:31] And the lack of chemistry, I would say is palpable.

[34:34] Dan, how would you describe it?

[34:36] Well, okay, so Nicole is played by Leslie Mann.

[34:41] And she, the thing that made my girlfriend the most mad

[34:46] in the whole movie was that later on,

[34:49] she asked Mark to help her clean her house.

[34:53] And she's in like a dress and heels while she's cleaning.

[34:59] And she's constantly wearing this outfit,

[35:03] which made my girlfriend be like, when is this set?

[35:08] Yeah, she's always dressed like Donna Reed.

[35:10] It's really weird.

[35:11] Yeah, it was very confusing to her

[35:12] because it was like, okay,

[35:13] there's all this World War II stuff.

[35:15] And then like, yeah, she's dressed like Donna Reed.

[35:17] And then suddenly someone mentioned Zappos

[35:19] and she's like, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,

[35:21] hold on.

[35:23] But Leslie-

[35:24] Yeah, she mentioned Zappos.

[35:26] Yeah.

[35:27] Yeah, it is, there is a weird like disconnect

[35:29] because maybe part of it's like,

[35:31] maybe she's dressed because she's part of his fantasy world.

[35:35] Well, she definitely plays into his fantasy world

[35:37] because as I said, she's always wearing heels.

[35:39] And Leslie Mann comes over and is immediately fascinated

[35:44] by, you know, Mark's little diorama

[35:46] and asks about, you know, what's going on there.

[35:49] And she is, she exists only to be nice to Mark.

[35:53] She's like comically nice to Mark,

[35:55] even when like he tells her that this doll is named Nicole

[35:59] and it looks exactly like her.

[36:01] Well, I mean, you know, when you get older, Dan,

[36:03] it's harder to make new friends

[36:04] and she is kind of on the run from some trauma herself.

[36:07] She's just getting out of an abusive relationship

[36:09] with Kurt, the ex-cop.

[36:12] Right.

[36:14] And Stuart, what you just described there

[36:15] is in no way described by the film.

[36:19] You just read so much more real emotion into the movie

[36:22] than the movie provides for this character.

[36:24] Well, but also later on it's revealed that she,

[36:27] I think has a cousin who likes to wear women's clothes

[36:29] as well, so she's very understanding about, you know,

[36:32] Mark's desire to do that.

[36:35] But she does not, we do not get a sense of her inner life.

[36:39] She's just very, very sweet to a man

[36:42] who like, I'll be honest,

[36:44] does like a lot of off-putting things around her.

[36:46] Ironically, she is a doll in the movie.

[36:49] Like she is treated by the movie as a doll

[36:52] who exists only to befriend Mark

[36:55] and have him get a crush on her

[36:57] and then let him down when it turns out

[36:59] she doesn't share those feelings.

[37:01] Like she exists only as a real life plaything for her

[37:05] and I don't think the movie

[37:06] is attributing that to the characters.

[37:08] The movie is just, like you're saying,

[37:09] failing to give her any inner life.

[37:11] And if we could see her bristling

[37:14] at some of the like more off-putting things

[37:16] that Mark says or does, it would make her feel more real,

[37:19] it would make their relationship

[37:20] feel stronger and more real.

[37:21] It reminded me of her character in The Comedian

[37:25] where it's like, again, similarly,

[37:28] it was like your job in this movie

[37:29] is to fall in love with Robert De Niro's

[37:31] incredibly unlikable, unfunny character.

[37:34] And it's like, okay,

[37:36] and is there anything else I'm gonna do?

[37:37] No, you exist only to be an accessory for him

[37:41] so that we can mark off his redemption

[37:44] through how he interacts with you.

[37:46] You know what I mean?

[37:46] And the movie-

[37:47] Which means like when she's in movies where,

[37:50] as a performer, when she's in movies

[37:51] where she gets more fun stuff to do,

[37:54] like what was the one, the sex comedy,

[37:56] the teenage, with John Cena?

[37:59] Oh, Blockers?

[38:00] Yeah, yeah.

[38:01] It's just called Blockers, Dan.

[38:02] Yeah.

[38:03] Yeah, all right.

[38:04] It's like Chicken Blockers or something.

[38:04] It's called Picture of a Cock, Blockers.

[38:07] Chicken Blockers.

[38:08] Yeah.

[38:09] Yeah, yeah, and she-

[38:10] My worst nightmare.

[38:11] Someone would block me from a chicken.

[38:12] Don't you see like Gary Cole's Wiener in that?

[38:14] I mean, that movie's a lot of fun.

[38:15] Yeah.

[38:16] It feels like the movie is setting the audience up

[38:18] to be like, oh, I hope these two get together

[38:21] so that when she says no, it breaks our heart,

[38:24] but it's not gonna break our heart

[38:25] because it's very obvious from moment one

[38:27] that they should not be together

[38:28] and that this is a fixation that he has on her

[38:32] and not a real relationship,

[38:33] but the movie kind of wants us to think

[38:34] it's gonna be a relationship.

[38:35] It's like the movie thinks the audience is dumb.

[38:40] This is what I wanted to say about like the three tones

[38:42] because they've got the goofy, like CGI stuff tone.

[38:45] They've got a movie that actually touches

[38:47] on some of the real stuff in his life

[38:49] that at times can be kind of interesting,

[38:52] like when it takes the story seriously,

[38:55] but then that butts up

[38:56] against the Hollywood version of this

[38:58] where like they kind of want to make it

[38:59] into a romantic comedy almost,

[39:01] and it doesn't, like none of it works together.

[39:06] Yeah, so I think that's well put.

[39:11] Anyway, there's a scene where Mark makes his Nicole doll.

[39:13] Let's just get back to the summary, huh?

[39:15] Nicole stops by Mark's again.

[39:16] They talk shoes.

[39:17] There's a dance party at Hoagie's bar in Marwen

[39:20] after Hoagie has been captured

[39:22] and is being brutally tortured by the Nazis,

[39:25] and Nicole leads the other women of Marwen

[39:28] in what it looks like they're gonna,

[39:31] they want to party with the Nazis,

[39:32] but really they hurl Molotov cocktail bottles at them,

[39:35] and then shoot them,

[39:36] and it's so horrifically violent

[39:38] in a way that really like upset me for some reason.

[39:41] Like for some reason, the rave redemption,

[39:44] I was like, cool,

[39:45] but this, watching it,

[39:46] I was like, my stomach was churning,

[39:48] and I'm not quite sure exactly why.

[39:50] Do you guys have a similar reaction,

[39:51] or were you just like, whatever,

[39:53] dolls with blood pouring out of their bodies?

[39:55] I kind of just zoned out

[39:56] on the like the doll sequences entirely

[39:59] because it was so-

[40:00] Clear that they were extraneous to the movie that I'd be like, I don't know what's going on like and there's I don't know and there's also a feeling of like knowing this is a fantasy and that the fantasy always is such a violent thing.

[40:12] I mean, obviously.

[40:14] Oh, sorry.

[40:14] We say just the idea of like I don't feel any kind of catharsis from this because I know that it like it's it's a fantasy that will not move anyone's life forward.

[40:24] Yeah, that's true.

[40:25] They're all there's there's no there's no story used to it other than yeah.

[40:29] And again, this is like a real story that Mark Hogan camp came up with for his characters like where he was being tortured and the women came and saved him but it feels like they were just kind of like trying to shoehorn all these.

[40:41] It's like they're all these amazing parts of his life.

[40:43] Let's try to shoehorn them all into the movie.

[40:45] Yeah, there's it there.

[40:47] Nicole's evil ex Kurt shows up and starts spewing Nazi German at Mark and once again, until this point.

[40:57] I was like, you know, maybe he just loves her.

[41:00] He's maybe he's actually a good guy and Nicole's talked about her love of tea.

[41:06] And this is another one of those Rube Goldberg thing where Mark he is triggered by all this German being shouted at him.

[41:11] He runs away trips in his house a trap door falls on his head and he is like he it's it's such a weird thing because it's like a tragic cartoon routine, you know, like if if Wile E.

[41:25] Coyote was genuinely in pain and hurt like and really injured by the stuff that's happening.

[41:30] That's what it feels like sometimes.

[41:32] Yeah.

[41:34] Okay, so Dan what happens when so Mark's gonna go to the sentencing after all?

[41:38] What is it?

[41:38] Oh, yeah.

[41:38] What happened?

[41:39] So he goes to the sentencing and he's looking at the the dudes on the other side and like doesn't like one of them look like the doll like that's why he's being triggered as the well.

[41:49] He has one of them has a has a swastika tattoo on his arm.

[41:52] Yeah.

[41:53] Yeah.

[41:53] And like there's a guy with like they do look kind of like his dolls.

[41:57] There's like a guy with glasses.

[41:59] There's and you know, Mark, he basically and also and one of his attackers was from those was a Duracell that family that was in the Duracell battery.

[42:08] Commercials where they were like people but they had rubber skin so they look like giant dolls.

[42:12] So he sees that and he's like a giant doll.

[42:17] I guess I'm the only one remembers those commercials and they're horrifying.

[42:20] Although they were like more like blocky, right?

[42:22] They like well, yeah, they were very not they were very wrinkly and had a lot of like I want to call them carbuncles.

[42:28] Like yeah, they it was they looked like somebody saw Elliot isn't a carbuncle the the spot in between your butthole and your testicles.

[42:37] I don't think so.

[42:39] Dan.

[42:39] Why don't you look that up?

[42:40] No, but that's interesting that that was the joke you're going for like I was just sitting here being like, oh, they make sure the blue carbuncle was a good Sherlock Holmes story.

[42:51] Anyway, you know, the carbuncle is like a boil.

[42:55] Okay.

[42:55] Anyway, so Mark has an attack of PTSD.

[42:59] He runs out of the the sentencing hearing and the lawyers like can we have a recess so I can call my client down?

[43:07] The judge is like I'll do you one better.

[43:08] We can reschedule.

[43:09] It's fine.

[43:10] Probably because of our overworked judicial system.

[43:13] Oh, yeah, that's I think that's implied.

[43:16] And this is he's that his his PTSD attack takes the point for the form of him imagining that this has become a firefight between the Nazis attacked him and hoagie.

[43:25] And he and he ran a human-sized hoagie.

[43:28] Yeah, any we are spared the part where I assume a sandwich.

[43:33] Yeah, but delicious and terrifying and the the possibilities of what what it could do to a human belly if consumed in its entirety or if shoved in someone's mouth and throat to the point that they choke on it as might happen if an invisible maniac was in the room.

[43:47] Oh, that sounds interesting.

[43:48] Is that ever been in a movie before?

[43:49] Oh, I don't know if it has you probably know better than me.

[43:53] I assume that it was written in the script, but they probably didn't shoot it that as he's running away from the court.

[43:58] He trips down a flight of stairs into a pie contest gets a pie in his face.

[44:03] And then he's like under a horse's butt and the horse poops on him.

[44:06] Like I assume that that was going to happen based on the previous scenes.

[44:09] But did we talk about by the way the scene where like has it happened yet where he's like putting stiletto heels on Leslie Manns doll and it's it's a very sexual scene like and they're playing that weird cover of a sugar sugar or whatever it is.

[44:26] Or yeah, he's clearly not sure.

[44:28] It's a that love in my tummy song.

[44:31] I don't he's clearly getting off on this.

[44:33] Like he's like putting these shoes on her.

[44:35] He's like looking at the doll through a magnifying glass and like the movie plays which happens when I'm painting my goblins to Dan the movie plays it kind of like it's a sweet thing.

[44:48] Yes, but that's when I like was like, you know, what if this guy wasn't the victim of a hate crime?

[44:55] He would be we like the audience would think he's such a creep right now.

[44:58] Oh, this is the kind of thing that usually you see in movies that serial killers are doing.

[45:02] Yeah, and again, that's more a judgment.

[45:04] That's more a judgment on movies which associate non-mainstream emotional attachments with crime and murder, but it does come off as very creepy.

[45:15] It's supposed to be loving but it comes off as creepy.

[45:17] It doesn't help the way he's talking to the dog.

[45:18] It was meant to be loving like the way he paints his dolls in the movie 40 year old Virgin.

[45:24] Yeah, but it's a but you know, it's supposed to be like in Titanic when he's drawing a picture of Rose and it's like I'm using my art to celebrate this person that I have feelings for but I guess part of the difference.

[45:36] There's that Rose is there and as she requests that he draw her like one of his French girls.

[45:41] Whereas this is unasked for by Leslie man.

[45:44] So sure the woman is you is literally a doll which has certain connotations.

[45:48] So shortly after shortly after him fleeing the the courtrooms, isn't there a scene where he's at home watching a pornographic movie and like he starts to like kind of lose himself in the movie and then like the as one does them like the male character in the film turns into his into a Nazi guy and I feel like I feel like that also

[46:14] added a that added up like a sexual element that had been kind of missing from the tone of the movie, right?

[46:20] And like we were talking about this to like the thing is in movies like most you'd be like a Forrest Gump was just like whacking it to a fucking.

[46:29] Well, the thing is that like, you know, the reality sudden and you're like what like I know he's a human man and like that happens and stuff.

[46:37] That's not that crazy.

[46:37] But like, I mean, there literally is a scene where they're Forrest Gump ejaculates and doesn't know what just happened and is frightened by it and Jenny has to sue them.

[46:46] So I just wanted to say like in this modern world, like the reality is most of the time.

[46:51] Yeah, most people do watch pornography, but even so like if you like in a movie, the only time you see someone watching porn a movie is if they're coded as like a creep.

[47:02] Well, I think here it's a yeah, it's a weird.

[47:06] It's weird.

[47:07] They're introducing it so late in the film that he watches pornography because also the porn he's watching is so jokey and ludicrously vintage looking and he's watching it on like a VHS tape and the it feels like they're making fun of the character for like really what's happening is that his like something that should be a complete fantasy and release for him watching

[47:31] porn and I assume but he's not masturbating to it.

[47:33] He just kind of seems like he's watching it to review it.

[47:35] Maybe for a magazine.

[47:36] I don't know but that that that now his these kind of trauma these fantasies of trauma that are based in real trauma are invading even this which would be a pleasurable fantasy.

[47:47] Yeah, it should be like a really frightening moment, but it's done in such a jokey way that I was like and his response to it is like that.

[47:55] I was like, what is this?

[47:56] Like what is going on here?

[47:57] Like yeah, he's like two steps away from large margin that right there.

[48:01] Yeah, exactly.

[48:02] Well speaking of large Marge.

[48:03] I wanted to say that the what could you possibly want to say that was related to large Marge Dan?

[48:09] Well, well, it's it's related to the creator of large Marge will not creator because it's based on a her parents on a folklore based on.

[48:21] I mean Peewee Herman or Paul Rubens and and what's his face?

[48:25] Who wrote it?

[48:26] Phil Hartman Phil Hartman.

[48:28] Yeah, their scripts but like a Tim Burton movie.

[48:33] I just wanted to say that the the writers of this are Robert Zemeckis and Caroline Thompson and Caroline Thompson.

[48:39] I looked her up.

[48:41] She wrote Edward Scissorhands and she wrote at the Addams Family Homeward Bound the Secret Garden the Nightmare Before Christmas Black Beauty like mostly children's movies Corpse Bride, which sort of that's I think explains part of the weird tone that

[48:57] this movie has like it's it's almost like a children's movie version of a guy who like had a hate crime done to him.

[49:06] You know, it's very strange.

[49:08] Yeah, it's like you're I think you're right.

[49:09] It's like a children's version movie about a story about a man who is dealing with the trauma of a hate crime through very complicated like psychosexual fantasies, you know, yeah.

[49:21] Yeah, you're right.

[49:22] I think you put your nail on the head.

[49:24] They tried to turn it into a children's film and I just wish I hadn't watched it with Sammy.

[49:30] Yeah, a lot of questions afterwards.

[49:31] I was like Sam, you like this.

[49:32] It's a movie about dolls and he's like, I love the Toy Story movies.

[49:36] Toy Story 4 was less coherent and cohesive than the rest of the films, but I understand based on what was going on behind the scenes with Lasseter and everything.

[49:43] I'm like Sammy.

[49:43] I I'm sure I don't know, you know more than me about that stuff.

[49:47] So we watched this and he was like dad.

[49:48] I've got some questions.

[49:49] Number one.

[49:50] How did this get made?

[49:51] And I was like, don't worry.

[49:52] There's a podcast for that.

[49:55] Okay.

[49:56] Well, what happens next?

[49:56] Well, I can't so he's so bad at this.

[50:00] Nicole gives her some of gives him some of her old shoes and he shows her his shoe collection

[50:04] Yeah, and this is I think where he reveals like I think he at one point he

[50:10] Mentions that he like he he offhandedly mentions the pornography that he watches to her. Yeah

[50:15] Yeah, somewhat like taxi driver II type thing, right?

[50:19] Which is the one time she does seem to be a little uncomfortable and it's at least it's not listening in 40 year old virgin

[50:24] Where she finds that he has all these porn tapes and she's like you're a monster and runs out which is always

[50:30] Believable part of that movie to me. She's like, uh, maybe we shouldn't talk about that. But like she accepts that you know, yeah

[50:36] Yeah, the so doll hoagie and doll Nicole they kiss and that makes Deja Thoris who has been popping up throughout the movie

[50:43] We just haven't been talking about much. She gets mad and tells hoagie to tell us mark to build her a time machine

[50:48] And but he also builds doll Nicole a tea house in Marwen

[50:53] And that's when hoagie proposes to doll Nicole and then mark proposes

[50:58] To real Nicole and this is the first moment where she realizes, uh

[51:03] Maybe this is not the relationship. I thought it was maybe

[51:07] When I was what I thought I had pretty securely friend-zoned this next this across the street neighbor

[51:12] He doesn't seem to realize it

[51:14] She says she lets him down very gently says they're just friends and he gets mad and blames Deja Thoris

[51:19] But he built her time machine. So he's like it's like Deja Thoris you did this

[51:23] But I built you your time machine and I was like that time machine as I mentioned earlier

[51:26] It looks a little bit too much like the DeLorean and back to the future. Like come on. Come on, Bob. What are you doing?

[51:32] Well, luckily doesn't ready player one. Come on. Luckily when it flies around it doesn't make like

[51:37] Flamey tire tracks or anything, right?

[51:40] It does it does do that. I mean basically it's one step away from a Christopher Lloyd doll running in and being like Marty

[51:48] I mean hoagie we gotta go do this thing, but to apologize for

[51:52] Letting him down and and disappointing him. What does Nicole get him? Oh

[51:57] Guys, it's that Nazi doll that keeps triggering him. It's like the cat that came back

[52:02] You just can't get rid of this thing

[52:04] The doll escapes its box and starts chasing after mark and it's and it's basically it's her ex-husband, right?

[52:11] Yes at this point it becomes her

[52:14] Ex-husband or ex-boyfriend. Yeah, that's the face that's mapped onto the doll. Yes

[52:19] This doll shoots doll Nicole mark flashes back to his assault and

[52:24] Dejah Thoris is like it's join me. This is all your fault. This was all

[52:28] Can I pause it right now?

[52:29] Because this is the point we're like, you know pre before this they had they you know

[52:34] they'd mentioned the assault and they'd they'd kind of framed images of it in a way that was

[52:42] Like you don't actually see it like it does seem like a like a distant

[52:46] Like hazy recollection, but then when he when she gets shot he

[52:52] Kind of fully remembers it a little bit and it it like you get more of it as it goes on

[52:58] And I feel like that. I don't know like I felt there was something

[53:01] I I felt there was something interesting about the way they were framing the assault earlier

[53:06] And it fit more with the film, but it feels like Zemeckis

[53:10] I mean, it's not a huge surprise because he's kind of like a Spielberg where he's like in every case if he can show something

[53:18] He will show something like if he can make an entire movie with talking doll faces. He's gonna do that

[53:25] But or it's like how and it's the same sort of thing where it's like

[53:28] Maybe if somebody had told him not to actually show that sequence where he's like where mark is getting kicked in the face on the ground

[53:35] Because I don't think it necessarily makes the movie any better

[53:38] No, I don't think so

[53:40] it's and

[53:41] the and basically all you kind of learn from it even though you kind of knew it before is that he gets attacked because he

[53:47] Admits to wearing women's shoes sometimes to some guys, but they've already been established

[53:52] I don't I don't I don't think seeing him lying on the ground with like blood on him and some guys like kicking him makes

[54:00] Makes it any more horrifying. It's just

[54:03] Yeah

[54:05] by the way, I

[54:07] Just I've been talking about his assault. He was found by his co-worker Wendy and it's sort of like

[54:14] heavily implied earlier in the movie that like she had to leave town because he had developed a fixation on her as

[54:22] his savior

[54:23] yeah, which again like this guy's

[54:26] Look, I mean

[54:28] Again, the real guy went through an unimaginable trauma that he dealt. I mean, but we're not mocking the real guy

[54:34] The movie does not paint him. Well, I don't know whether that happened in life I can't but

[54:43] But it's

[54:44] You're also it's also I felt kind of like William Goldman watching the Big Lebowski and being like man

[54:49] I can't wait to see this bowling tournament that I was like, well at some point Wendy is gonna come back

[54:53] I assume but she never yes

[54:54] She's just she's just a shadow because if she's not part of Mark's life now, then the movie is not interested in her

[55:01] Anyway, Hoagie is upset and he goes to pray in his little church and that's where the Nazi finds him and there's some really out

[55:08] of place doll humor where he's like stick him up and Hoagie puts up his hands and then turns his head a

[55:14] 180 degrees around so he can see behind him and then he's like get up and he like gets up and then spins his torso

[55:20] around to match

[55:22] And it was like it seems weird that the character at this point decided to do some doll jokes

[55:26] But as if he was a doll man and is a versus a demonic toy at this point

[55:32] So yeah, actually, I mean that could have been the name of the movie

[55:35] I think it would work better than welcome to Marwen

[55:38] but and the Nazi is shocked by Hoagie's high heels and they fight for a while and this they've kind of like

[55:45] Slid into the big

[55:46] Climax fight where that there's a lot of people running Nazis running around and shooting and things like that

[55:52] but essentially what happens is Hoagie stabs the Nazi in the neck with his stiletto heel and

[55:57] He's gonna fall to his death from this church tower

[55:59] when Dejah Thoris shows up in the time machine and the Nazis keep coming back to life and there's a big gun battle and

[56:05] Hoagie won't leave with Deja's like come with me to the future 15 million light-years in the future in my time machine

[56:11] And he goes no

[56:11] No

[56:12] I won't leave until we rescue Nicole's shoe because it's in Nazi in the Nazis neck and there's a moment somewhere in here and I

[56:18] Exactly

[56:19] where one of Nazis like these stupid women and he's like women are the saviors of the world or something like that like it's

[56:24] Yeah, it's like the movie was like, oh, there's all this subtext. We really haven't addressed throughout the movie

[56:29] I guess we'll just shove it all into this scene and

[56:32] Hoagie does and and then there's like there's Nazis keep grabbing up a very phallic

[56:40] Missile launcher and then they get shot and then the next Nazi runs up and grabs the same missile launcher and they're all trying to blow

[56:45] up this flying DeLorean

[56:47] and that's when Hoagie notices that Dejah Thoris has a tattoo of a swastika on her arm just like the

[56:53] Just like the guy who assaulted me goes wait, you're a Nazi. You're the problem. You've been keeping mark sick and it's like

[57:00] I'm glad you came to the I'm glad the character came to this realization the audience

[57:04] Thanks to the movie storytelling came to this realization. I think 15 minutes into the film

[57:08] It's like anytime I start seeing band photos of a black metal band and I'm like, oh these guys look oh, no

[57:15] We're like, oh that's a that's a whole body black cover-up tattoo

[57:19] I wonder what that dude had on his torso before he just covered his entire torso in black

[57:26] Anyway, he in the in all the hubbub

[57:29] Mark makes it so that Dejah Thoris is shot by the Nazis

[57:32] She disappears and a green mist turns the Nazis to skeletons and the Nicole doll

[57:37] Recovers and Mark wakes up and throws his meds away and reads his victim statement in court about how he's persevered

[57:44] And he has his friends. Yeah, really

[57:46] Unrelated to the crime in a lot

[57:49] Is definitely addressed to the audience and not the judge like but it's like let's have him do a big inspiring

[57:56] Speech where in real life the judges would be kind of like, okay

[58:01] Well, it sounds like the it this assault hasn't offended you that bad

[58:06] Exactly. Sounds like you've persevered in a very inspiring way

[58:09] Seems like you've established yourself in the arts community in a way that you couldn't have before this before this assault

[58:15] And so I guess case dismissed

[58:18] You're all room. I decree you all be roommates now. I

[58:23] Sentence the attackers to cake and ice cream

[58:27] Something I glossed over but I would like to address briefly is that one of the big plot points is then that Mark throws away

[58:32] all of his medication because it's bad medication that Dejah Thoris wants him to take and it's like

[58:37] Again, it's like a super complicated issue of when medication is right for people and how sometimes it cannot be the right thing and it

[58:45] is

[58:46] Rather than addressing the issue

[58:48] It is just deadening the symptoms to make it easier for other people to deal with you

[58:51] But it is like not a good message in a movie for it to be like hey

[58:56] If you're dealing with trauma, the best thing for you to do is throw your meds away

[59:00] That'll solve the problem. Like it's a like it's a real day. It's like a a little bit like

[59:06] Hey, sometimes you got to solve a problem with dynamite

[59:09] So if you've got a problem throw some dynamite at it, like it's a it's like a messy

[59:14] It's not a good thing for them to be doing the same with it

[59:16] Like my issue with a beautiful mind where it's like hey

[59:19] If you've got serious problems and you don't it with reality just stop being crazy and your problems will be solved

[59:26] Ignoring Paul Bettany your imaginary friend. Yeah, just ignore the things where you can't tell the difference between

[59:33] Reality and what your mind is creating just ignore the stuff your mind is creating. Okay. Yeah, I can't tell the difference

[59:39] That's my particular illness is my problem is I can't tell the difference between reality and what my mind is telling me

[59:44] Yeah, but just like stop looking at the crazy stuff and don't be crazy anymore crazy. Oh, okay. Thanks. I

[59:51] Stop focusing on that beautiful mind and instead focus on your beautiful heart. Yeah gross

[59:56] I find that movie so disgusting and I guess that's kind of what

[1:00:00] What maybe upset me so much about this movie is like how

[1:00:04] how ham-handedly it was

[1:00:07] addressing and engaging with

[1:00:09] real trauma and

[1:00:11] Like with with the very real issues that a real person was dealing with because it's like I did it

[1:00:17] I came through the other side and he goes to his New York Gallery show and he's like I changed the name of the town

[1:00:21] To Marwin Cole the Cole comes from Nicole and the hobby store woman is like, oh, I see. Well great

[1:00:27] Which is also weird cuz like in I guess maybe maybe this care

[1:00:31] Maybe this woman didn't want her name used in this movie, but like in real life it stands that part stands for Colleen

[1:00:38] But it's it's funny that they were like, all right

[1:00:40] They're like, what's another female name that we get a COL?

[1:00:43] Let's just lop the E off of the Cole and we can do it. They're like, they're like Leslie

[1:00:49] We haven't named your character yet. She's either gonna be Nicole or Colette, but we have not decided yet

[1:00:53] Like it could be now hear me out. This might be a little bit out there stone cold Steve Austin

[1:01:01] What's his favorite kind of slaw could it be whole slaw

[1:01:05] No, it would have to be no E on that slaw. Oh, yeah, you're right. Oh, well, okay

[1:01:10] How about this what he loves bra Cole Lee, but the real mark Hogan camp doesn't like broccoli

[1:01:17] well, he likes adventures what if he likes the movies of

[1:01:19] A cubby bra Cole Lee the James Bond producer. What if she's named Cole Porter?

[1:01:28] And it's such a dumb movie thing that they're like

[1:01:32] This is the origin story for why it says Cole

[1:01:36] the same way that we have to explain why Han Solo calls Chewbacca chewy because it might be not obvious to people that chewy is

[1:01:43] The nickname is someone named Chewbacca and Nicole shows up at the art

[1:01:48] Show and she and Mark share like a series of looks that I honestly

[1:01:53] Kind of had a hard time deciphering what the movie was trying to tell me they were thinking

[1:01:57] What did what did you think of it?

[1:02:00] Well, I feel like the movie wants us to ignore artists intent in this case Bobby's. Yeah, shut your trap

[1:02:06] Yeah, Marcel Duchamp would say Dan that you have an equal part to play in this relationship between artist

[1:02:12] Well, I peace and I mean I was just trying to talk about how clumsy the movie was

[1:02:16] But I do think that the movie is trying to tell it like make us think that

[1:02:21] Nicole

[1:02:22] You know like had this very important part to play in his like

[1:02:27] semi recovery

[1:02:30] And I just don't see how like the facts of the movie bear that out like he like

[1:02:36] fixated on her and then she turned down his

[1:02:39] Proposal and that was kind of the whole thing and but they have like this look of appreciation between them. I don't know

[1:02:46] But maybe he was able to with Nicole and her rejection

[1:02:49] Maybe that was that gave mark the impetus to realize that maybe he shouldn't

[1:02:55] venerate

[1:02:56] women who aren't going to reciprocate that kind of emotion to him and that's what

[1:03:02] Because Wendy left without having any kind of a confrontation

[1:03:06] Yeah, so yes, maybe it's possible. I mean now that now and Mark's been reading a lot of stuff on the internet

[1:03:12] There's this philosopher from Canada that he's been watching a lot of lectures from and he really understands now how women

[1:03:18] Manipulate men and how men are the victims

[1:03:24] Someone called the dark web and I've

[1:03:27] New ideas. Did you know that?

[1:03:30] in many

[1:03:31] You know that peacocks are actually male and pea hens do not have

[1:03:35] The fun stuff and good stuff that peacocks have and people are kind of like that, too

[1:03:39] More information on that. I'm sending a deep programmer. Do you have I actually can't remember any of the real stuff that that guy says

[1:03:46] So I made something dumb up the stuff. He says is done. Well good

[1:03:52] It's so his his stuff is his stuff is so inane and evil that I just

[1:03:57] Pushed it right out of my head right away. But Dan you're forgetting that Mark Hogan camp

[1:04:01] He doesn't need Nicole anymore because he finally

[1:04:03] Works up the courage to ask the girl from the the woman from the hobby shop out to sushi and

[1:04:10] It's like because you know guys, you're not fully healed until you are part of a heteronormative

[1:04:15] pair bond and

[1:04:18] You are mating in a way that is socially acceptable

[1:04:21] Also, does he work up the courage or is he like just shifting to like he's like, oh, okay. This woman is clearly

[1:04:28] You know enjoyed my company before so I guess I'm moving over here

[1:04:33] Well, maybe maybe he just didn't realize what he had all along yeah and the scales have been lifted from his eyes

[1:04:38] Yeah, it's a real Teen Wolf. I think I think that's what it's supposed to be is it's like oh, I realize

[1:04:44] This is the person I should have been with but and they make the case. Hey, we've never had sushi before

[1:04:48] We might not like it

[1:04:49] but I guess we should try it and it was like wait was the was the point of the movie that he wasn't trying new

[1:04:54] things because

[1:04:56] Because like he's the origin story of his famous love for sushi

[1:05:02] I feel like for somebody who's super into small like dolls and shit that

[1:05:08] And like carefully crafted things. I feel like sushi would be right up his fucking alley

[1:05:12] Yeah, and then he's gonna get like way into Gundam's and stuff

[1:05:18] They're just imagine a lot of weird things happen in Marwan like he says they uh

[1:05:22] It would be really funny if it's like, you know, what don't call me mark anymore more call me

[1:05:28] Hero and it's like wait, so this is the origin story for the guy from hero dreams of sushi. Like what's going on?

[1:05:34] Mm-hmm or Jira?

[1:05:36] That's the end of the movie

[1:05:38] What if we buried the lead? That's how the movie is. Oh, yeah, we should mention this time we get and this is this is a

[1:05:45] This is kind of a biopic

[1:05:46] So they also do like the what pre credits or during credits pictures of the actual Mark Hogan camp. Yeah

[1:05:54] Here's the weird thing that they say in it is they go

[1:05:56] They talk about how mark hasn't had a hasn't had a drop of out hasn't drank alcohol in years

[1:06:02] And it's like and it that really I weirded me out until I watched the documentary and it's like oh

[1:06:07] Before the attack he was an alcoholic

[1:06:09] He was like an alcoholic who thought he was gonna die

[1:06:12] Yeah, he's gonna drink himself to death and he was depressed and unhappy and the movie once I knew that it was like

[1:06:17] Yeah, I understand this character so much better. Why didn't they build that into the character?

[1:06:22] I mean he talks about drinking and it's sort of like

[1:06:25] Implied at best, but they don't like yeah, they don't say that he was an alcoholic

[1:06:28] I mean part of it is that all the all the information about him comes from him almost like if some of the other

[1:06:35] Characters were like, oh, yeah mark. He had a horrible drinking problem

[1:06:40] Like yeah real mess

[1:06:41] But they don't they don't it's any any information about mark for the most part comes from mark which makes it kind of suspect

[1:06:48] And that's not but also like I think it's part of the cuting up of the character like the character is not a

[1:06:54] blameless snow pure innocent Forrest Gump type if you admit that he had a

[1:06:59] Complicated life before the assault and so it's easier for the movie if it's just like yeah

[1:07:05] He was just this dude who occasionally he's just a normal dude

[1:07:07] Everybody loves who occasionally liked wearing women's shoes and then he got attacked and he turned into this, you know

[1:07:13] Christ like innocent, you know, and it's like

[1:07:16] It's so much more it'd be a such a more powerful movie if he was a more if he was as complicated a person as

[1:07:21] He is in the documentary

[1:07:22] Yeah, look before we get final judgments

[1:07:25] I want to say again like this movie brings up all of these delicate topics that it is not

[1:07:32] It is not equipped to handle and we are only barely more equipped to handle

[1:07:36] So again, I apologize if we like drifted into anything that caused offense, but yeah, we're I mean

[1:07:41] We're certainly not experts on anything. Yeah, but this is like such a

[1:07:44] Model

[1:07:46] Yeah

[1:07:48] and I want to apologize for

[1:07:50] When we when I was like, I guess we got to do this movie not realizing that it would be a hard movie to like

[1:07:55] Make jokes and be funny about so next time. No, this is definitely a eat your vegetables episode

[1:08:03] So in the so next episode we better do something that's more fun Dan well, I think next episode that's

[1:08:09] Into a small timber then probably that'll be fun. Oh, yeah

[1:08:14] No, buckle your seatbelts. Yeah quick final judgments because I think we all know where we're standing here

[1:08:19] This is a good bad movie a bad bad movie or movie. You kind of liked Stewart

[1:08:23] I'm gonna say it's a bad bad movie. It's a movie that's obviously made with technical skill and features performers

[1:08:30] that are good if not necessarily

[1:08:34] suited for the material exactly but yeah, I mean it just

[1:08:37] It it's it just feels wrongheaded in basically every aspect

[1:08:43] Yeah, it's I'm gonna agree with Stewart it's a bad bad it's just it's a misguided movie

[1:08:47] It's a misguide like conceptually misguided and emotionally misguided in a way that makes it like when you see the trailer

[1:08:54] You're like, this is gonna be nuts. This is gonna be crazy. But then you watch it. You're like, oh, this is like really this is

[1:09:01] Complicated and upsetting and I feel so bad for the person who had to cut a fucking trailer for this movie

[1:09:07] Yeah, and it's just like it this is not a it's not a it's a bad movie

[1:09:11] But it's not a fun movie to watch it. Yeah hurt yourself movie to watch not hurt yourself

[1:09:15] Like you should go hurt yourself, but hurt yourself like it's painful to watch at times to agree with

[1:09:21] Y'all it's a it's a bad bad movie and also like to borrow

[1:09:27] Nathan Rabin's rating system for bad movies. This is not a failure. This is a fiasco

[1:09:34] yeah, and it is kind of interesting on that level like if you want to see how like

[1:09:40] Talented people can go so wrong. It's sort of interesting

[1:09:43] But it's like so like it is also morally upsetting in a way that like I don't usually get upset at movies

[1:09:50] Yeah, but and before we move on you guys both do recommend the documentary right Marwan call. Oh, yeah

[1:09:56] I think it's a very good documentary. I wish that I had seen it

[1:10:00] instead of this. But uh, no, it's I think it's the Maron call

[1:10:03] is well worth seeing. Yeah.

[1:10:10] We are the host of my brother my brother me and now nearly 10

[1:10:13] years into our podcast, the secret can be revealed all the

[1:10:17] clues are in place and the world's greatest treasure hunt

[1:10:20] can now begin

[1:10:21] embedded in each episode of my brother my brother and me is a

[1:10:24] micro clue that will lead you to 14 precious gemstones all around

[1:10:29] this big, beautiful blue world of ours. So start coming through

[1:10:32] the episodes. Let's say starting at episode 101 on Yeah, the

[1:10:36] early episodes are pretty problematic. So there's no

[1:10:39] clues in those episodes. No, no, not at all. The better ones.

[1:10:43] The good ones. Clues. Ahoy. Listen to every episode

[1:10:46] repeatedly in sequence. Laugh if you must, but mainly get all the

[1:10:51] great clues. My brother my brother me it's an advice show

[1:10:54] kind of but a treasure hunt mainly anywhere you find

[1:10:57] podcasts or treasure maps. My brother my brother me the hunt

[1:11:00] is on.

[1:11:06] Hi, everybody. My name is Justin McElroy. I'm Sydney

[1:11:08] McElroy. We're both doctors and nope, just me. Okay, well,

[1:11:11] Sydney's a doctor and I'm a medical enthusiast and we

[1:11:14] create sawbones a marital tour of misguided medicine. Every

[1:11:17] week I dig through the annals of medical history to bring you

[1:11:21] the wildest, grossest, sometimes dumbest tales of ways we've

[1:11:26] tried to treat people throughout history. Lately, we

[1:11:28] do a lot of modern fake medicine, because everything's a

[1:11:31] disaster, but it's slightly less of a disaster every Friday,

[1:11:35] right here on maximumfund.org as we bring you sawbones a

[1:11:37] marital tour of misguided medicine. And remember, don't

[1:11:40] drill a hole in your head.

[1:11:45] Moving on. The Flophouse is supported in part by Dashlane.

[1:11:52] Dashlane is a password management app that keeps all of

[1:11:56] your online information safe, secure, encrypted and easy to

[1:12:01] access. Dashlane remembers all of your passwords so that you

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[1:12:16] ahead and get weird with your passwords or let Dashlane

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[1:12:39] including VPN, dark web monitoring and more. If you like

[1:12:45] it, use code FLOP at checkout to save 10% on your premium

[1:12:50] subscription. I had a burp that I could not burp during that ad

[1:12:56] read.

[1:12:56] You know what, if you hadn't brought it up, Dan, I would

[1:13:00] never have known.

[1:13:01] I wouldn't have noticed, but it sounds like a great poem start.

[1:13:04] I had a burp I could not burp.

[1:13:06] Yeah, I'm just bringing it up to, you know, introduce a

[1:13:09] little lightness and levity into this section of the Flophouse.

[1:13:12] Oh, cool. Thank you. Yeah.

[1:13:13] I'll say, look, guys, I'll just I'll just say it. Passwords are

[1:13:17] getting too complicated these days and too hard to remember.

[1:13:20] What am I some kind of password computer? So I think this is an

[1:13:22] app I need.

[1:13:25] I also want to say that the Flophouse is sponsored in part

[1:13:29] by HelloFresh.

[1:13:32] Hello.

[1:13:33] And they sent us a...

[1:13:36] Stewart was fresh at the end of a very long hallway.

[1:13:39] They sent us some samples.

[1:13:44] Yeah, some treats.

[1:13:45] I got to say, yesterday I made one of mine.

[1:13:48] I chose the calorie conscious meals because I'm unhappy with

[1:13:54] some recent weight gain.

[1:13:56] And you ate like two of them, right?

[1:13:58] No, I ate the appropriate portion.

[1:14:01] And I have to say, though, like, you know, for something that's

[1:14:03] calorie conscious, I could not, it did not feel like I was

[1:14:07] denying myself.

[1:14:08] Like I had a very delicious, I had like it was a squash flat

[1:14:12] bread with pepitas on it.

[1:14:14] What's a pepita?

[1:14:15] It's a shelled pumpkin seed.

[1:14:18] Yeah.

[1:14:19] And it was very delicious.

[1:14:21] I liked it quite a bit, actually.

[1:14:23] So HelloFresh does good work.

[1:14:26] I think you're I think you're really missing an opportunity

[1:14:28] here, Dan, to do a podcast where you just describe food for

[1:14:32] people.

[1:14:33] Because he's...

[1:14:33] Or explain what pepitas are.

[1:14:35] Well, yeah, because you seem so much more animated and excited

[1:14:39] to talk about food than you are.

[1:14:41] Welcome to Barwin, certainly.

[1:14:44] But HelloFresh makes cooking delicious meals at home a

[1:14:46] reality, regardless of your comfort in the kitchen.

[1:14:49] There's something for everyone from family recipes to calorie

[1:14:53] smart and vegetarian and fun menu series like Hall of Fame

[1:14:57] and Kraft Burgers.

[1:14:58] I want to know what's in the Hall of Fame.

[1:15:01] What is in the Hall of Fame?

[1:15:02] Well, yeah, do you have to, like, climb up a mountain pathway

[1:15:06] to get to the hall?

[1:15:07] Push the grand doors open, which squeal with the weight of

[1:15:11] time.

[1:15:12] And you're like, oh, pot roast.

[1:15:13] Great.

[1:15:15] Easily change your delivery days, food preferences and skip

[1:15:17] a week whenever you need.

[1:15:19] For a total of $80 off in your first month, that's $20 off

[1:15:23] your first four boxes.

[1:15:24] Visit hellofresh.com slash flop 80 and enter promo code flop

[1:15:29] 80.

[1:15:30] I guess that's a weird sequel to Star 80.

[1:15:32] That's hellofresh.com slash flop 80 promo code flop 80 for a

[1:15:36] total of a total of $80 off your first month.

[1:15:40] I feel like Dan, this has already been kind of a delicate

[1:15:42] episode and making a joke about Star 80 is maybe not the best

[1:15:45] or the best thing to do.

[1:15:47] But hey, you know what?

[1:15:48] That's a great deal.

[1:15:49] It's because my stupid brain did not make the connection

[1:15:54] immediately between $80 off and flop 80.

[1:15:58] So you're like, is that the flop house of 1980?

[1:16:01] Is that what this is about?

[1:16:02] Like that Wonder Woman movie?

[1:16:04] Yeah.

[1:16:06] Stuart, I believe you have a jumbotron.

[1:16:08] J-j-j-jumbotron, hand selected for Stew Balls.

[1:16:12] That's right.

[1:16:13] We got a ga- I don't know why you're interrupting me.

[1:16:16] I'm doing a really awesome fucking ad read.

[1:16:20] We got a gamer thing.

[1:16:23] In the Crossroads, each player takes on the mantle of an

[1:16:27] adventurer by creating a unique deck of weapon, item, and

[1:16:31] ability cards.

[1:16:32] Players then compete through a series of shared turns in which

[1:16:36] all actions play out on the battlefield map simultaneously.

[1:16:41] By providing unique and realistic gameplay, Crossroads

[1:16:45] rewards strong deck building, bold strategy, and a willingness

[1:16:49] to take informed risks.

[1:16:52] To support or pre-order, find the Crossroads on Kickstarter

[1:16:56] or visit our website at SojournerGaming.com.

[1:17:02] The Crossroads is a new strategic deck building game for

[1:17:05] two or more players, which focuses on realistic player to

[1:17:09] player combat in a fantasy setting.

[1:17:14] Wow, so there's a lot of, a lot of gravity in that read.

[1:17:17] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:17:18] Well, I'm, I think maybe I'm throwing myself, uh, throwing

[1:17:22] myself in the ring for official, uh, voice of Crossroads, the

[1:17:26] game.

[1:17:27] Okay.

[1:17:29] Yeah.

[1:17:29] Um, so, uh, Elliot has a few announcements about the live

[1:17:33] shows, but before we get to that, I just want to say, uh,

[1:17:37] thanks, the merch, the merch contest.

[1:17:42] Yeah.

[1:17:42] Thanks for listening.

[1:17:42] The merch contest is over.

[1:17:45] We have a couple of winners.

[1:17:46] Originally, we were just going to do the one, but I think

[1:17:49] everybody's a winner, Dan.

[1:17:50] Sure.

[1:17:51] Everyone's a winner who participated.

[1:17:52] We got a lot of great stuff.

[1:17:54] Uh, but there were two pieces of art that were neck and neck

[1:17:59] through the entire competition.

[1:18:01] So we're like, let's do both.

[1:18:02] Why limit ourselves?

[1:18:04] Uh, especially since we haven't done new merch in a while.

[1:18:06] Yeah.

[1:18:07] We make the rules.

[1:18:08] Why not change them at the last minute?

[1:18:09] So the first, I mean, it's not like if we lived in a world like

[1:18:12] that, it would be chaos and nobody would be able to live a normal

[1:18:14] life, but yeah, let's just do that.

[1:18:16] Let's just throw the rules out the window.

[1:18:17] You know what?

[1:18:18] Let's also throw out the baby with the bathwater.

[1:18:19] Why not?

[1:18:20] People tell you not to, but let's just do it.

[1:18:22] You know, making a slippery slope argument that I don't think

[1:18:24] applies, but, um, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[1:18:26] The slope is so slippery.

[1:18:27] Ah, I'm all the way at the bottom.

[1:18:29] So first winner is Elizabeth stage.

[1:18:33] She did a lovely, uh, house cat on a skateboard t-shirt for us.

[1:18:38] Uh, and our second winner is Scott Yakashin who did some, uh,

[1:18:44] flop house inspired monsters on a couch.

[1:18:47] They're kind of in a big daddy Roth style.

[1:18:50] Uh, both are lovely pieces of merch that you can get by going to flop

[1:18:54] house podcast.com and clicking on the merch link.

[1:18:57] Also, you can just go to Chipotico or however you pronounce that.

[1:19:00] And, uh, click on, I think podcasts and then max fun.

[1:19:03] Do you want to spell it?

[1:19:04] Cause it's hard to, it's hard to, let me look it up.

[1:19:07] I don't have it right.

[1:19:09] You vamp a little, sorry, sorry, Dan.

[1:19:12] I didn't mean to throw you a curve ball, like spelling out the name of the website.

[1:19:16] It's T O P a T O C O.com.

[1:19:21] But again, you can just, if you can't do that, you can just go to the

[1:19:24] flop house official site and click on the merch button.

[1:19:27] I mean, just tell your phone, Siri, buy flop house merch.

[1:19:30] You'll know what to do.

[1:19:31] Yeah, I were, I'm really happy with both of these.

[1:19:34] Um, and, uh, and he's not happy with anything.

[1:19:38] So these, these two, uh, winners got a little, uh, cash from max fun, but they

[1:19:43] also chose some movies for us to review.

[1:19:45] We will not be getting to those until the new year because of our themed

[1:19:49] bunch months and holidays, but we will get to them as soon as we can.

[1:19:54] I'm excited about both of the choices that they gave us.

[1:19:57] Yeah.

[1:19:58] That's all I want to say about that.

[1:19:59] Thanks.

[1:20:00] everybody went to the contest congratulations to our winners and

[1:20:02] thanks to them for doing great work thanks everyone who voted in the contest

[1:20:06] i'm looking forward to seeing people wearing or displaying

[1:20:09] this new

[1:20:10] flophouse

[1:20:11] merchandise for the flophouse i'm elliott kaelin

[1:20:15] uh... yeah

[1:20:17] uh... so what do i think you do the next thing elliot

[1:20:20] now the show's over we just finished it

[1:20:23] uh... okay uh... i guess uh... yeah i guess i've been stewart wellington see

[1:20:27] you guys later no no no no no

[1:20:29] no the show's not over guys

[1:20:31] let's keep doing shows let's keep doing shows in fact let's do some more live

[1:20:34] shows let me talk about them we've still got september twenty eighth in

[1:20:38] boston at wb you are city space technically it's outside of the

[1:20:41] boston city limits but it's in the boston metropolitan area

[1:20:44] september twenty eighth boston seven p m

[1:20:46] we will be talking about elita battle angel that show is

[1:20:49] sold out but at nine forty five we're gonna be talking about

[1:20:52] godzilla king of the monsters that's right

[1:20:55] we're bringing the colins to cambridge elita colon battle angel and godzilla

[1:20:59] colon king of the monsters it's a double feature

[1:21:01] of double dots in between words and all of our personal colins will be there

[1:21:06] uh... i mean i don't know mine isn't allowed to leave state lines

[1:21:10] i mean if it's anything like a normal show stewart will make extensive use of

[1:21:14] that colon right before the show

[1:21:16] uh... yeah i mean i can't help it i get a little nervous before i get out on

[1:21:19] stage so the other thing is i'm kind of excited about trying both these movies

[1:21:25] i haven't seen them yet i'm hoping they're both going to be good guys

[1:21:27] and we got an L.A. one

[1:21:28] too did you announce that?

[1:21:30] no i haven't not yet so september twenty eighth in boston

[1:21:33] again the nine forty five show godzilla king of the monsters tickets still

[1:21:36] available

[1:21:36] october twelfth we're gonna be in L.A. los angeles back at the regent theater

[1:21:41] but this time with stewart

[1:21:42] we're gonna be doing that show again october twelfth a saturday and we're

[1:21:45] gonna be talking about

[1:21:46] dark phoenix that's right

[1:21:48] the movie that kills the x-men franchise

[1:21:51] dark phoenix maybe or maybe the x-men franchise will

[1:21:54] rise from the ashes

[1:21:56] like a

[1:21:57] house that's been insured

[1:21:59] yeah

[1:22:00] uh... it's the only metaphor i can think of

[1:22:03] like a zombie

[1:22:04] yeah like a rise from the ashes like a zombie so that's

[1:22:08] september twentieth in boston seven p m elita battle angel nine forty five p m

[1:22:12] godzilla king of the monsters and then october twelfth in los angeles we'll be

[1:22:15] talking about dark phoenix for those tickets just go to flop house podcast

[1:22:19] dot com slash events

[1:22:21] and click on the button that says

[1:22:24] buy tickets or get

[1:22:25] tickets for some reason

[1:22:27] one of the button says buy tickets

[1:22:29] the other two buttons say

[1:22:30] get tickets

[1:22:31] this is some choice that dan made i'm sure i don't know

[1:22:34] i don't know why they're not uniform in wording

[1:22:38] that's just the way it is

[1:22:40] you know varieties of spice of life

[1:22:43] whether it's buy or get

[1:22:47] that's how you keep excitement in a relationship

[1:22:52] uh... excited about the shows and excited about finally doing shows in

[1:22:55] boston

[1:22:55] and those are all movies that i'm

[1:22:57] looking forward to talking about

[1:23:00] let's move and we'll have all and i think we'll have is right

[1:23:03] new presentations i'm gonna be doing some new powerpoint presentations and i

[1:23:06] think you guys might be too

[1:23:08] yeah i mean i might re-use one for the boston show just as we have to keep it

[1:23:11] short and i have a short presentation but definitely for the late show

[1:23:15] which is again tickets still available i have a all-new presentation i've never

[1:23:19] done for them very excited about

[1:23:20] i'm just gonna keep people guessing

[1:23:22] maybe i'll just show up and uh...

[1:23:25] vamp for twenty minutes

[1:23:27] twenty minutes is a long time for the presentation

[1:23:30] you said i had to keep it short

[1:23:32] let's move on to letters from listeners listeners like you

[1:23:36] this first one

[1:23:38] this is from sean

[1:23:39] last name withheld

[1:23:40] hey guys wait

[1:23:41] before we get to sean's letter and i'm sure it's great

[1:23:46] i just wanted to sing

[1:23:48] a little song about this show even though i know it's going long

[1:23:52] hey guys

[1:23:54] let me lay it down for you and be honest

[1:23:57] let's be truthful i'm turning my chair around so i can sit and be real

[1:24:02] welcome to marwen was a difficult movie

[1:24:05] a hard movie to make jokes about so i know

[1:24:09] there haven't been as many jokes in the show

[1:24:12] as you think there should be

[1:24:14] or even that there isn't a show like glow

[1:24:16] which is kind of a drama but kind of a comedy

[1:24:20] it's thirty minutes long which these days means comedy

[1:24:22] even for a show like transparent

[1:24:24] that doesn't really have jokes in it

[1:24:27] and that's how you know though that it's a comedy it's thirty minutes long

[1:24:32] so anyway

[1:24:33] this episode has been more like a show like say

[1:24:37] orange is the new black

[1:24:38] sixty minutes long and kind of a comedy but these days

[1:24:42] not a lot of jokes in the episodes

[1:24:44] the later seasons get pretty serious

[1:24:48] bleak even in a way that makes you think oh yeah

[1:24:50] this used to be categorized as a comedy

[1:24:54] even though it's sixty minutes long which by tv definition means it's a drama

[1:25:00] so let's just say

[1:25:02] next time

[1:25:02] we'll have more jokes

[1:25:04] wait what show are you talking about?

[1:25:07] good question stewart i'm talking about the way that kind of arbitrarily

[1:25:12] the length of a show has become a way to decide the genre it's in

[1:25:17] i don't think that's a question stewart asked

[1:25:19] no it's fine it's fine

[1:25:20] okay let's just move on

[1:25:21] yeah we probably were looking

[1:25:22] so perhaps i'm misunderstanding what stewart was asking about

[1:25:26] so stew can you tell me from you what was that question again

[1:25:33] he wanted to know what show you were singing about

[1:25:36] what i wanted to ask was what show were you singing about

[1:25:41] that's a good question okay i think i understand a couple different shows

[1:25:45] i see you checked out at some point so i was talking at the end about

[1:25:49] orange is the new black on netflix but i also mentioned a couple shows like

[1:25:54] glow also on netflix transparent amazon prime and the flop house which is on max

[1:26:00] fun and you're listening to it right now if you're not then you can't hear this

[1:26:04] song but wait hold on

[1:26:08] what if you were hearing the song but not listening to the show

[1:26:12] like maybe it came to you in a dream maybe you heard someone far off scream

[1:26:18] the lyrics to the song because they were listening to the flop house

[1:26:23] anyway i guess

[1:26:24] it's not even a song anymore it's just a patter

[1:26:26] it was uh it was a surprise stewette for a second

[1:26:28] yeah uh sorry

[1:26:30] it's a complicated thing this life that we live in and so i'll just say

[1:26:34] it's time to end this song okay part one at least part two of the song

[1:26:42] like this everyone hates this um yeah we both checked out we both took that

[1:26:49] uh moment to check our email and because i checked our email i got a little

[1:26:53] message from our friend at the alamo draft house

[1:26:55] christina who programs things there uh i just want to let listeners know that

[1:27:00] on november the 12th i will be hosting a terror tuesday at the alamo draft house

[1:27:06] brooklyn well where i'll be showing final destination three so that's a new

[1:27:10] plug pretty cool that's almost as cool as how

[1:27:13] like two weeks before on october 30th i'm going to be hosting a screening of

[1:27:17] jason x oh wow that's a fun one yep so let's go

[1:27:21] into outer space and elliot when are you hosting a terror tuesday or a weird

[1:27:24] wednesday i'll be hosting my family on russia

[1:27:29] the night after our the night after i get home from our boston shows

[1:27:34] where you will i don't know um okay jewish new year stewart so i'll talk

[1:27:38] about the last year i'll think about the next year

[1:27:40] and i will prepare myself for yom kippur a week and a half later

[1:27:44] when i atone for the sins of the previous year i ask god's forgiveness

[1:27:47] and i try to identify how i can be a better person for this coming year

[1:27:52] cool neat um this first letter is from sean

[1:27:59] who writes dear ops i wanted to thank you for your latest episode in which you

[1:28:03] covered meatballs part two not just because

[1:28:07] it provided me with two hours of great listening

[1:28:09] but because it has also given me closure after 20 something odd years

[1:28:14] some of the memories for no discernible reason that have stuck with me from

[1:28:17] childhood are sitting in front of the tv on a saturday afternoon

[1:28:20] flipping through the eight or nine channels we received in my household

[1:28:25] and one such memory was seeing a clip of a guy in a dress flying around a boxing

[1:28:29] ring whether i actually watched more than

[1:28:31] just that scene i'm not sure but i continued on with my life never

[1:28:36] knowing what it was i'd just seen fast forward to just last week as i

[1:28:40] listened to you all in your harrowing retelling of the epic that is

[1:28:43] meatballs part two i hear of a scene that almost caused a

[1:28:48] flashback as i relived that moment but still

[1:28:51] managed to safely continue driving fortunately i was alone in my car

[1:28:55] because i then proceeded to instinctually yell out

[1:28:58] holy shit that was meatballs too after all these years of never knowing

[1:29:02] what it was my younger self had watched the three of you and shirleen have

[1:29:05] finally given me closure thank you and just to tack it on at the end here

[1:29:09] while i'm not looking for anything as heavy as this

[1:29:11] have you ever watched an older movie to only then realize you'd actually seen it

[1:29:15] partially or in its entirety not realizing what it was until then

[1:29:19] keep on flopping sean uh i mean this isn't exactly the same

[1:29:25] but it's close enough i'm not probably already told the story

[1:29:28] but who cares um i remember sitting in a movie theater

[1:29:32] watching a screening of uh the movie sorcerer

[1:29:35] and about halfway through i'm like holy shit

[1:29:38] this is exactly the same as that movie ellie was talking about wages of fear

[1:29:45] so i mean is that kind of similar that i remembered somebody describing a

[1:29:48] different movie similar the first uh the first thing that comes to my mind also

[1:29:52] isn't quite exactly the right thing but uh

[1:29:54] when i was a kid i watched um night flight the program night flight

[1:29:59] uh

[1:30:00] showed a compilation of atomic era stuff and also like cartoons and stuff that were associated with

[1:30:10] the bomb. And you know, when I was a kid, much like today, there were like high tensions,

[1:30:16] high geopolitical tensions, and nuclear war was enough on my mind, even as a child,

[1:30:24] that it was very frightening to me. And there was this one cartoon that ended with these two like

[1:30:33] punk characters slamming into a semi truck that was carrying nuclear missiles and blowing up the

[1:30:41] world and then being sent to hell. And this haunted me for years. And it's only in the

[1:30:47] age of the internet that I was able to find that it's a cartoon called Jack Mack and Rad Boy Go.

[1:30:53] Yeah, they used to play that on liquid television sometimes. Yeah. And they're like, go, go, go.

[1:30:58] They're like, want to go faster and faster. And they keep crashing into things. Yeah. It was

[1:31:02] horrifying as a child. But it gave me a little closure to be like, oh, that was that weird thing

[1:31:07] that I saw. Well, did you ever see the Looney Tunes cartoon? That's about how the people of

[1:31:12] the world kill themselves with war, and then the animals of the world find the Bible and create a

[1:31:17] perfect world of peace. And it was like that I remember seeing that as a kid as part of the like

[1:31:22] regular Nickelodeon Looney Tunes roundup at like seven or 730 and being like, what am I watching?

[1:31:27] This is so grim. Like, yeah. But I would say that to answer this question quickly, it's less that

[1:31:34] I see a movie and I realized I've seen it before, but that there are a couple of movies that I've

[1:31:38] seen a few times and I can never remember anything about them. And so I end up watching them again,

[1:31:42] and they just slide out of my mind super easily. So like there's a film noir called Kansas City

[1:31:47] Confidential. And there's a Peter Lorre movie called Mask of Demetrios and a Boris Karloff

[1:31:52] movie called Isle of the Dead. Each of those movies I've seen at least twice, and I can never

[1:31:56] remember anything about them. My mind is just rejecting them somehow, and I don't know why.

[1:32:00] Yeah. All right. Well, moving on, this next letter did not have a name per se. They identify

[1:32:06] themselves as Cloud Nine. Oh, okay. I guess they're that George Harrison album. Anyway.

[1:32:11] Yeah, it's the staff of the fictional store in the TV show Superstore.

[1:32:18] Okay. Dear Sweet Summer Peaches,

[1:32:27] I've been listening to the podcast for a few years now, and the episode I come back to

[1:32:33] the most is definitely number 204, We Are Your Friends, as it never fails to help put me to

[1:32:40] sleep. Not because it's super boring or anything, but rather because it's my favorite episode,

[1:32:45] and the dialogue and familiarity always really helps me calm down. So my question is, what do

[1:32:50] you guys use as comfort media, whether it calms you down or is even just something you feel

[1:32:54] comfortable watching over and over again? What movie, TV show, podcast, or book do you use as

[1:32:59] your secret weapon to battle anxiety, stress, or grief? Thank you for all the laughs, Cloud Nine.

[1:33:05] I think we've answered similar things before now that I'm reading this thing, but it's still an

[1:33:12] interesting enough question. I'm sure that we'll give different answers than what we may have

[1:33:15] thought of before. I have talked before about how after my divorce, I listened to a lot of

[1:33:24] My Brother, My Brother, and Me, which cheered me up with its fine laughs. But also, like you,

[1:33:29] I like to go to sleep listening to podcasts because I find people's voices comforting,

[1:33:34] and it's sort of embarrassing because Chuck Bryant is kind of an acquaintance friend of ours, but I

[1:33:41] like to listen to stuff you should know before going to bed because I find their voices relaxing,

[1:33:45] and it's interesting enough that it focuses my brain on something that's not self-recrimination

[1:33:50] or something like that right before bed. But in terms of movies just making me feel better,

[1:33:55] I think that anything, because of the nostalgic glow of them, anything sort of

[1:34:04] very 80s feeling makes me feel good, like a John Carpenter movie or something along those

[1:34:10] lines. It must be tough for you then because no popular media seems to cater to your demographic.

[1:34:17] It feels like the 80s are really passe right now. There's not a lot of 80s stuff.

[1:34:21] Yeah. What do you guys got? Let's see. For music, I almost always go to the dumbest

[1:34:29] caveman death metal I can think of, stuff that would normally amp me up, but also, I don't know,

[1:34:35] is just super simple. And I don't know, for movies and TV and stuff, I'm such a fan of

[1:34:46] Miyazaki movies. I could watch Castle Cagliostro every day. It's the best. And for, I don't know,

[1:34:55] for comics, I like to read comics to kind of calm me down. And for the last couple years,

[1:35:02] Giant Days has been my go-to for a super relaxing, non-stressful thing.

[1:35:08] I have talked in the past about how Seeing in the Rain is a movie that I take a lot of comfort in,

[1:35:12] but lately, I haven't had the time for that. So when I'm feeling anxious or unhappy,

[1:35:18] I've been turning to the song Venus, I think it's called Bringer of Peace from Holst's The Planets.

[1:35:25] And for years, I've been a big fan of Holst's The Planet symphonies, but there's something about

[1:35:31] the Venus song in particular that really calms me down. It's a very calming sound and a very

[1:35:37] inspiring song to me. And it's eight minutes long, so it's like, okay, I need eight minutes

[1:35:41] to calm down. I guess I'll listen to this song. All right. That's very nice. Last letter is from

[1:35:49] Lewis, last name withheld, who writes, Hey Peaches, in the Meatballs Part 2 reviews,

[1:35:54] we heard from Charlene about what Stewart is really like. Far from the bad boy party animal

[1:36:00] persona that he likes to put on. Oh, yeah. We learned that he's actually a sweetie pie who

[1:36:05] makes his wife breakfast every morning. So I'd like to hear from the other wives and or girlfriends.

[1:36:10] What are you afraid of, Peaches? Give your significant others the microphones for once

[1:36:15] and let them air their grievances on the podcast. You have nothing to fear if you have nothing to

[1:36:20] hide. Also, really enjoy the show. Sincerely, Lewis. Okay. So that was his question.

[1:36:26] Very threatening. Yeah. So I guess get Danielle down, Elliot. Danielle is unlike me, who thrives

[1:36:34] on the attention of strangers. My wife does not like to be in the spotlight and frequently rejects

[1:36:42] my offers to be a part of the podcast or to do anything. She just doesn't like to put herself

[1:36:50] out there like that. She's a very private person. So I do not think it is likely to have happened.

[1:36:54] But that's also exactly what I would say if I was keeping her from being on the podcast.

[1:36:59] That's true. I guess you'll never know what the truth is. Yeah, I didn't figure we would

[1:37:03] actually do this, but I do think it's interesting to be like, is there anything? I don't know about

[1:37:08] our real life personality that we want to say that might be. Are you fishing for us to be like,

[1:37:15] Dan, we we give you this is an on act that we. Well, no, I mean, I will say that we give a lot

[1:37:22] of shit, but actually he's like a super great guy and he's just a good guy fishing for us to

[1:37:29] like talk about each other necessarily. I was talking about talking about ourselves,

[1:37:32] although I will say that like you guys are a lot nicer to me off the air than you are.

[1:37:37] Yeah, it's a bit because we're performers and we're like super professional. Yeah. I don't know

[1:37:44] what I like. I don't know what I would say about myself that like someone in a relationship might

[1:37:49] say about me. I think I might say that I am even crankier in real life than I appear on the podcast,

[1:37:56] but I'm warm and sweet natured beneath it, like the old man at the end of the street who just

[1:38:02] needs a puppy to bring him back into society. Like the old man from up, not the old man from

[1:38:08] Gran Torino. Yeah. Oh, yeah. The old man from Gran Torino, who just is a warm, warm, just a

[1:38:16] warm guy. Yeah. Dan, you're the old man from Home Alone where it's like people think you're scary

[1:38:20] because you're shoveling your walk in the middle of the night, but actually you're a sweet old man

[1:38:24] who just wants a kid to show interest in him and then you'll help him fight burglars or whatever.

[1:38:31] And you're not like the old man from Night of the Demons who buys a bunch of razor blades to put in

[1:38:36] apples that he's going to give trick-or-treaters and then he accidentally is hoisted by his own

[1:38:40] batard and eats a homemade apple pie that somehow the full razor blades, it's crazy.

[1:38:46] And you're not like the old man and grumpy old man. I'm talking about Burgess Meredith

[1:38:50] because you're not always telling like filthy limericks and stuff like that.

[1:38:54] I'm also not like the old man in the sea. I don't go out fishing for giant marlin.

[1:39:00] No, not at all. Yeah. All right. Well, that's cool. Okay. So we've figured out what Dan is

[1:39:06] and Dan isn't. I mean, I guess what someone would say about me would just be that people

[1:39:11] might not know about is probably just about how buff I am. That's true. It's one of those guys

[1:39:16] where once I take off my shirt, people are like, wow, I had no idea you were so built.

[1:39:20] You seem like such a slight guy, but it's just because I wear very loose clothes.

[1:39:26] Yeah, yeah, yeah. You wear a lot of caftans when you podcast.

[1:39:31] Little did we know that when you take that off, though you have a very small frame,

[1:39:35] you just got like, oh, just slabs of beef strapped on there.

[1:39:39] Oh, yeah. It's proportionally very, very buff, but on a small frame. Yeah.

[1:39:43] Like if a child really worked out hard. It's like the little bulldog in the

[1:39:48] cartoons who's always walking around with his big old buff arms. That's kind of like you.

[1:39:54] I was going to say, it's like the scene in Kung Fu Hustle where they're looking

[1:39:57] for people to beat up in the town, but everyone's too tough looking.

[1:40:00] and they point out the kid and the kid walks out

[1:40:01] and he's super buff.

[1:40:04] Oh, what a good movie.

[1:40:09] So I guess those are letters.

[1:40:11] You know, I kind of opened myself up

[1:40:12] a little more than Elliot did, but.

[1:40:14] Oh, that's true.

[1:40:16] But that's also part of our personality.

[1:40:19] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:40:20] Elliot's a very private person, he doesn't talk that much.

[1:40:23] So let's.

[1:40:24] I mean, that's the thing is,

[1:40:25] I feel like my personality is kind of an open book.

[1:40:27] To a certain extent, it's like what you see is what you get.

[1:40:29] So.

[1:40:30] Yeah, it's like a faucet that you try and turn off,

[1:40:32] but then the knob breaks and it just keeps squirting out

[1:40:35] and you're like, ah, home alone.

[1:40:37] It's like a fire hose in a cartoon.

[1:40:39] You lose control of it and you're just spraying everybody.

[1:40:41] Yeah, he's, Elliot's not quite the motor mouth

[1:40:45] that he seems on the podcast.

[1:40:46] He is a little bit, but he's a lot more indulgent too

[1:40:52] than he seems.

[1:40:55] Okay, let's do recommendations.

[1:40:58] Okay, so we'll recommend the next part of the podcast

[1:41:00] is where we recommend movies that you might want to watch

[1:41:02] instead of welcome Marwin.

[1:41:03] Thank you.

[1:41:04] Elliot looks very excited to go first.

[1:41:06] So why don't we pass, do a little bounce pass

[1:41:08] of that ball over to Elliot.

[1:41:10] Sure, I can go if you'd like me to.

[1:41:12] I was, I'm going to recommend a movie

[1:41:13] I really enjoyed a lot,

[1:41:14] which is a Korean movie called Burning

[1:41:17] that came out from last year.

[1:41:18] It got a lot of hype on people's year best lists,

[1:41:20] but I only got a chance to watch it recently.

[1:41:23] It's directed by Lee Chang Dong

[1:41:24] and it's based on a Hurricane Murakami story

[1:41:27] and it manages to capture the sense of like

[1:41:30] long stretches of aimless time that his stories capture.

[1:41:35] It's a movie about a man who,

[1:41:37] a young man who becomes enamored of a friend of his

[1:41:39] and falls in love with her.

[1:41:41] She goes off on a trip and comes back with this guy

[1:41:45] where it's not quite clear what their relationship is

[1:41:47] and the guy is very rich while the other two are not.

[1:41:51] And just kind of, he's this strangely condescending,

[1:41:55] like there's something sinister about him.

[1:41:58] It seems, but you're not sure if that's just because

[1:41:59] the main character is envious of him

[1:42:01] and the movie takes some turns

[1:42:03] that I don't want to tell you about ahead of time,

[1:42:05] but it's a slow moving movie,

[1:42:07] but it's really hypnotic and like surprising.

[1:42:10] And it's one of the few movies I've seen recently

[1:42:11] where it was very satisfying in the way it forced me

[1:42:15] to dig deeper into it and figure out my own understanding

[1:42:19] of what's happening in it.

[1:42:20] It's a very open-ended movie in a certain way,

[1:42:23] like the plot is not open-ended,

[1:42:24] but the things that are happening behind the plot

[1:42:27] and inside the characters,

[1:42:28] you have to figure some of that out for yourself

[1:42:30] in a way that sounds kind of boring and irritating,

[1:42:34] but it's not.

[1:42:35] I found it to be a really fantastic movie.

[1:42:37] So that's Burning.

[1:42:39] That sounds great.

[1:42:40] I want to check that out.

[1:42:41] I'm going to recommend a movie I watched on a plane

[1:42:44] when I was flying back from England the other day.

[1:42:48] I watched this movie, The Headhunter,

[1:42:50] which is like a trim 80 minutes or 80, maybe 70 minutes.

[1:42:55] It's a short one.

[1:42:56] And it, though it is billed as having on IMDb,

[1:43:01] it's billed as having three people in the cast.

[1:43:03] That is not true.

[1:43:05] There are only two.

[1:43:06] And it is kind of a grim, gritty fantasy

[1:43:11] focusing on a guy who it seems like his only mission

[1:43:16] in life is to heed the call of the nearby settlement

[1:43:20] and hunt down whatever monsters seem to be bedeviling them.

[1:43:26] And then chopping their heads off

[1:43:27] and mounting them in his home.

[1:43:28] And the one monster that has eluded him

[1:43:31] is the one that took his daughter away from him.

[1:43:34] And it's like, it's this great little fun movie

[1:43:39] that takes advantage of its relatively spare budget.

[1:43:44] A lot of the action is implied.

[1:43:48] It's, yeah, it's a cool little movie.

[1:43:50] It feels like, almost like something

[1:43:53] that would normally be fit into like a short,

[1:43:57] but kind of extended.

[1:43:58] It's cool.

[1:43:59] It's fun.

[1:44:00] The Headhunter, check it out.

[1:44:02] I have been on, you know,

[1:44:04] The Daily Show takes a couple breaks during the summer.

[1:44:06] I've been on one of those.

[1:44:08] So I've seen a lot more movies in the theater,

[1:44:12] taken more chances on different movies.

[1:44:15] I went out and I saw Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark,

[1:44:19] which I thought was a lot of fun.

[1:44:21] A lot of people have said it's kind of a throwback

[1:44:24] to kind of Amblin-style kid horror.

[1:44:28] Isn't that like a kids on bikes thing?

[1:44:30] Yeah, and you know, again, like I said,

[1:44:32] I have a lot of nostalgia for that.

[1:44:34] But I also, it's a PG-13 horror movie

[1:44:38] that doesn't try to be,

[1:44:41] like try to pretend like it's the same

[1:44:43] as an R-rated horror movie.

[1:44:44] You know, it's not taking itself seriously.

[1:44:46] It's having a lot more fun with like the scares

[1:44:52] and the grossness and just the adventure side of things.

[1:44:54] And I appreciate that.

[1:44:56] Like I like a fun horror movie

[1:44:58] more than I like kind of like a nihilistic one

[1:45:00] most of the time.

[1:45:02] And so I enjoyed it on that level.

[1:45:04] And also, you know, it's based on the popular series

[1:45:09] of kids books that I remember from my youth.

[1:45:14] A lot of compilations of folk tales,

[1:45:15] a lot of compilations of urban legends all crammed together.

[1:45:20] When wrapped in a package of the creepiest art imaginable.

[1:45:22] Yeah, the art by Stephen Gamell.

[1:45:25] And I will say that this is one of the movies that,

[1:45:29] for a movie that could easily have been like,

[1:45:31] we are just buying this property

[1:45:33] to have the name recognition.

[1:45:34] It had a lot of-

[1:45:35] Yeah, you were making that complaint

[1:45:37] about the Goosebumps movie.

[1:45:38] Shut up.

[1:45:44] It had a lot of respect for the source material.

[1:45:47] There's a framing device involving a book

[1:45:49] that normally is the sort of thing

[1:45:50] that would kind of irritate me,

[1:45:53] but it felt like reverence for where it came from.

[1:45:57] And also the creature effects were done

[1:46:00] to make them look as much like the illustrations as possible,

[1:46:04] which was kind of neat.

[1:46:06] So I had a lot of fun.

[1:46:08] It's not quite as funny or scary as I would ideally like,

[1:46:13] but it's very enjoyable in that vein.

[1:46:17] So that's my recommendation.

[1:46:18] Scary stories to tell in the dark.

[1:46:20] The movie.

[1:46:22] Do they do the story about the-

[1:46:22] Yeah, or the books.

[1:46:24] Do they do the story about the family

[1:46:25] that brings a dog back from Mexico

[1:46:27] and it turns out to be a rat?

[1:46:29] Yeah.

[1:46:30] A Mexican sewer rat!

[1:46:32] No, they don't do that one.

[1:46:33] That's the one that always stuck with me from those books,

[1:46:35] partly because it was like, why would you,

[1:46:38] like, the picture was so horrifying.

[1:46:40] It was like, why would they ever take this dog?

[1:46:42] It looks horrible.

[1:46:45] Yeah, they're soft-hearted.

[1:46:46] They want to, you know,

[1:46:47] why should only the attractive dogs be adopted?

[1:46:50] Yeah, I mean, how does the story end?

[1:46:53] Is the rat okay?

[1:46:54] No, it just ends with the shock, like the vet.

[1:46:56] It just ends with the reveal.

[1:46:57] It's a Mexican sewer rat, and it has rabies.

[1:47:00] Oh, oh, that's not good.

[1:47:01] Yeah, and they kept it in like,

[1:47:02] it was in like the babies, like,

[1:47:05] they kept it with the baby.

[1:47:07] It's disturbing.

[1:47:09] Okay, well, I guess that's a sad story then.

[1:47:12] Yeah.

[1:47:12] No, it's literally a scary story to tell in the dark.

[1:47:15] Here's the question.

[1:47:16] If it's so dark, how can you read?

[1:47:18] That's just what I was going to ask.

[1:47:19] That's a good question.

[1:47:20] The book does not answer it.

[1:47:22] Sure.

[1:47:24] Well, it's a dark ink.

[1:47:25] That's what the next edition needs.

[1:47:27] My Amazon review said,

[1:47:28] one star, too many unanswered questions.

[1:47:30] If I'm in the dark, how can I read it?

[1:47:32] This book doesn't work.

[1:47:35] Okay, guys.

[1:47:36] Well, I think we did it.

[1:47:38] What? I don't know.

[1:47:39] But go to thebackspumfun.org.

[1:47:41] Check out all the other great podcasts there.

[1:47:44] It's our network.

[1:47:44] They do a lot for us.

[1:47:45] We love them.

[1:47:46] Like and subscribe, baby.

[1:47:48] Yeah, subscribe on iTunes.

[1:47:49] Rate us on iTunes.

[1:47:51] Don't do it if you've got mean things to say.

[1:47:52] Life is short.

[1:47:54] Why bother?

[1:47:56] But if you do have something nice to say,

[1:47:58] review us, tweet about us, all that stuff.

[1:48:01] Tell people about us.

[1:48:02] Help us spread the word of this show that we're doing.

[1:48:04] And maybe this wasn't the most laugh out loud episode,

[1:48:08] but I'll tell you what.

[1:48:10] Yeah, we lived, we loved, we learned.

[1:48:12] Yeah, exactly.

[1:48:13] We do what we can with the things that we have.

[1:48:15] And isn't that what life is all about?

[1:48:17] Doing what you can with the things that you have.

[1:48:19] Mm-hmm.

[1:48:20] Yeah, well.

[1:48:21] Okay, cool.

[1:48:22] I guess we're gonna keep wrapping this fucking train up.

[1:48:26] Wait, we're wrapping a train up?

[1:48:28] Yeah.

[1:48:29] Are we Christo?

[1:48:30] What's going on?

[1:48:31] Yeah.

[1:48:32] Dan, I hate to break it to you.

[1:48:33] We're Christo now.

[1:48:34] No, no, no.

[1:48:35] Oh, man.

[1:48:36] Kill all those people with those umbrellas.

[1:48:37] So much work.

[1:48:38] Killed all those people with those umbrellas.

[1:48:40] Like he killed 45 people with them or something.

[1:48:43] I think it was one guy.

[1:48:43] Hey, one person killed by umbrellas,

[1:48:45] too many people killed by an umbrella.

[1:48:46] Wow, thanks, Dan.

[1:48:47] The penguin would say it's not enough.

[1:48:49] That's what Oswald Camelot would say.

[1:48:53] On that note, let's end.

[1:48:56] For The Flopouts, I've been Dan McCoy.

[1:48:58] Hey, I'm Stuart Wellington, and not Christo.

[1:49:02] And I'm Elliot Kalin, also not Christo,

[1:49:04] which means by process of elimination, Dan is Christo.

[1:49:07] Oh.

[1:49:09] Bye.

[1:49:19] Let's do one more, just in case.

[1:49:21] Oh, a joke one, okay.

[1:49:22] No, no, no.

[1:49:23] Because you're afraid of getting real.

[1:49:24] No, no, no, I got a serious one.

[1:49:26] I like that one, I just.

[1:49:27] I got a serious one, Elliot.

[1:49:29] Okay.

[1:49:30] On this episode we discuss,

[1:49:32] welcome to Marwen.

[1:49:34] Fart.

[1:49:37] All right.

Ep. #292 - Welcome to Marwen

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