FH Mini 31 - Stu Sees Saws

[0:00] Hey there, welcome to another Flophouse Mini.

[0:09] That is right, it's a mini-episode of the Flophouse podcast, a podcast about bad movies.

[0:14] Is tonight's mini going to be about bad movies, or is it going to be about something else

[0:18] entirely?

[0:19] You better listen and find out.

[0:21] My name is Stuart Wellington, and I'm joined by...

[0:24] Hey there, it's me, Dan McCoy.

[0:27] Hey, it's me, Elliot Kaelin, continuing the theme of all of us saying hello as if we're

[0:32] recognizing you at a party, but not really remembering where we know you from.

[0:37] Hey, you!

[0:39] Just don't call somebody big guy.

[0:41] I've gotten that before, and it never makes me feel good.

[0:45] I've never gotten that.

[0:46] Never gotten it.

[0:47] Oh.

[0:48] You're like a big guy?

[0:49] Never been called big guy.

[0:51] What do you get called?

[0:52] Chief?

[0:53] Pocket mouse.

[0:54] Champ?

[0:55] Little dude.

[0:56] Yeah, Skinny Smalls.

[0:57] Sporto?

[0:58] Sporto.

[0:59] Yeah, Sporto.

[1:00] Greedo.

[1:01] Yeah.

[1:02] Moma Naydon.

[1:03] Ponda Baba.

[1:04] Oh, okay.

[1:05] Snaggletooth.

[1:06] A Man-O-Man.

[1:07] Chief Chirpa.

[1:08] Really, any Star Wars character I've been called, yeah.

[1:11] Now, listeners are probably assuming Elliot's just going to continue naming Star Wars characters

[1:15] for the rest of the episode, and...

[1:17] I could do it.

[1:18] You could do it.

[1:19] Welcome to the droids, everybody.

[1:21] Yep.

[1:22] Yeah, this episode is not a living Wookieepedia.

[1:26] No, it's...

[1:27] Oh, wait.

[1:28] Go on.

[1:29] Wait, let me just say.

[1:30] That is something that we did in the car this past weekend, where my son wanted to see how

[1:36] many Star Wars...

[1:37] He wanted to see how many Harry Potter characters he could name, and then I bet him I could

[1:40] name more Star Wars characters, and then eventually he told me to stop naming Star Wars characters.

[1:46] That's what the listening audience has been trying to do to their phones for years.

[1:51] That's the thing.

[1:52] You don't hear.

[1:53] See, the first couple Star Wars characters, it's charming.

[1:57] Everybody loves that shit.

[1:58] Then you get a little bit deeper, and people are like, oh yeah, I guess I remember that.

[2:02] And then after a while, they're like, fuck, stop, dude.

[2:05] Yeah.

[2:06] There was a lot from my wife of, you're making this up.

[2:08] You're making that one up.

[2:09] I said, nope.

[2:10] Kilati Mundi is a real Jedi elder.

[2:12] Kieri Mundi, yeah.

[2:14] Kieri Mundi.

[2:15] That's what it is.

[2:17] How did she react when you mentioned Elan Slees Bagano?

[2:21] It was around the time I got to Kit Fisto that she said, none of these are real.

[2:27] Oh, he's real.

[2:30] And he's incredible.

[2:31] And he's spectacular.

[2:32] Yeah.

[2:33] So Stu, what are we going to do today?

[2:34] So guys, would you like to...

[2:37] Do you want to play a little game?

[2:42] Sure.

[2:43] Okay, sure.

[2:44] Is this how I add reverb to your voice just then?

[2:46] Jordan, go back.

[2:47] Make sure that sounds super fucking scary, because you know what?

[2:51] That's right.

[2:52] Tonight we're doing an episode of Saw Talk, talking Saw in the Sawquals.

[2:56] And the Saw-tomatic universe feature, as talked about by me, Sir Wellington, and my co-hosts...

[3:04] Dan McCoy.

[3:07] And Elliot Sawlin.

[3:08] Oh, wow.

[3:09] You're already getting into the...

[3:10] It took me a while.

[3:11] Like, Saw-tomatic didn't, like, you know...

[3:14] It didn't hit my brain immediately as what it was, but...

[3:17] I mean, by the time you said Saw in Sawquals, I was on board, Dan.

[3:20] And then it says Saw-pun.

[3:21] Uh-huh.

[3:22] Now, and yeah, and I mean, we're all Sawn-ophiles.

[3:28] And I just...

[3:29] A little bit of background for anybody who has not been anxiously following my Twitter

[3:34] feed over the last couple of weeks.

[3:38] I recently threw up my back again.

[3:41] It's a reoccurring problem.

[3:43] Please do not write an email to Dan to give me advice on how to take care of my back.

[3:47] I have...

[3:48] I already have a physical therapist, and it's going much better now.

[3:52] But I was kind of out of commission for a little bit, and I did what any right-thinking

[3:57] person would do.

[3:59] While lying on the floor in pain, I made the decision to watch all seven of the main franchise

[4:06] Saw movies in order, because they're all on HBO Max.

[4:11] As if I...

[4:12] I watched the side movies like Saw-low.

[4:13] Like Saw...

[4:14] Yep.

[4:15] A Saw war story.

[4:16] Uh-huh.

[4:17] Yep.

[4:18] Do we have other ones?

[4:19] I bet we can think of some.

[4:20] Rogue.

[4:21] Saw.

[4:22] Well, there's also the Saw-walk adventure, the battle for Endor.

[4:23] Yeah, sure.

[4:24] Yep.

[4:25] Ghost...

[4:26] Yep.

[4:27] It's more.

[4:28] Yep.

[4:29] See, when you said Saw-low, I thought you were talking about Sal-low, 120 Days of Sodom.

[4:30] But...

[4:31] I mean, it's possible he was.

[4:32] Yeah.

[4:33] I was talking about the Woody Allen film Sweet and Lowdown.

[4:34] It's called Sweet and Lowdown.

[4:38] I was talking about the Woody Allen film Sweet and Lowdown.

[4:42] It's called either Saw and Lowdown or Sweet and Sawdown.

[4:45] Yep.

[4:46] Well, in any case, let's move on.

[4:48] Starting with Saw and Pen.

[4:49] I think what had actually happened was I started watching the first Saw movie because Spiral's

[4:54] in theaters now, or was in theaters?

[4:56] I don't remember.

[4:58] And...

[4:59] Time is not a fixed continuum.

[5:00] It can be all at the same time.

[5:02] You're like Billy Pilgrim.

[5:03] Exactly.

[5:04] You're experiencing all at once.

[5:05] Yep.

[5:06] Thank you, Elliot.

[5:07] And I did an Instagram Live where I made the bold claim that I was going to run the series

[5:13] and watch all the movies.

[5:15] And you know what?

[5:16] I actually did it.

[5:18] And we're going to talk about it today here on the Vlog House.

[5:20] Congratulations, Stuart.

[5:21] Now, Dan, we had talked previously...

[5:22] This is Stuart Saw Mitzvah.

[5:24] He finally did it.

[5:25] He watched all the movies.

[5:26] Now, luckily...

[5:27] Today, he is a Saw.

[5:29] As you guys...

[5:30] As I explained in the email when I was talking about this mini with you guys, I mentioned

[5:34] we just got to make sure we watch all seven movies before tonight.

[5:37] So I'm really eager to hear about your favorite traps.

[5:40] Stu, I think you may have gotten our text chain mixed up with maybe a different text

[5:45] chain that Dan and I are not on.

[5:47] I do actually...

[5:48] I will say that I did see that Stuart was doing this, and I'm like, for some dumb reason,

[5:55] seeing as I didn't even like the one Saw movie that everyone seemed to think was the good

[6:00] one, I was like, oh, yeah, I'll do that too.

[6:02] Why not?

[6:04] I also like to waste my life, and then I bailed after number three.

[6:08] What?

[6:09] So...

[6:10] Yeah.

[6:11] What did you...

[6:12] Well, we actually talked about Saw III here on The Flophouse many, many years ago.

[6:16] I think it was one of our...

[6:17] It was like our third or fourth episode.

[6:20] Do not go...

[6:21] It was before I joined.

[6:22] Please do not go back and listen to it.

[6:23] I'm sure I said something horrible on it.

[6:25] So please don't listen to it.

[6:26] Yeah, yeah.

[6:27] It was horrible.

[6:28] I'm the fucking worst.

[6:29] You're saying you're very sorry.

[6:30] Thank you.

[6:31] Yes.

[6:32] It was a less mature show in those days.

[6:33] Elliot is...

[6:34] Yeah.

[6:35] I feel like Elliot's really getting into the spirit of the game.

[6:37] Dan, you gotta catch up or you're gonna get your head sawed off.

[6:40] So...

[6:41] What?

[6:42] That's like the trap.

[6:43] Stupid.

[6:44] I've known you for years.

[6:45] The thing is, just like John Kramer, aka the Jigsaw Killer, I wouldn't actually be sawing

[6:51] your head off.

[6:52] It would be you not succeeding in the trap that I set for you.

[6:55] Oh, right, right, right.

[6:56] So no court could convict me.

[6:57] No court.

[6:58] Whatever.

[6:59] Legally, it's not his fault.

[7:00] Yeah.

[7:01] Uh-huh.

[7:02] Yeah.

[7:03] So...

[7:04] That's how Rube Goldberg got away with all those murders.

[7:05] So, Dan...

[7:06] A writ of habeas saw.

[7:07] Yep.

[7:08] So, Dan...

[7:09] I mean, it's barely a pun, but sure.

[7:10] Okay, yeah.

[7:11] I don't know.

[7:12] Dan, you're a sawnophile.

[7:13] Why don't you, for those at home who maybe are not familiar with the Saw series, can

[7:14] you give us a quick rundown of what the Saw series is all about?

[7:15] A sawnopsis, if you will.

[7:16] Thank you.

[7:17] I will.

[7:18] It's about... there's, again, a not-killer named Jigsaw who...

[7:19] No, not his real name.

[7:20] His name's merely...

[7:21] Sean Kramer's his name.

[7:22] His name is Jeremiah Ignatius Gassaw.

[7:23] Merely a kidnapper and torturer of humans.

[7:24] Killer of traps.

[7:25] Uh-huh.

[7:26] He...

[7:27] He...

[7:28] He...

[7:29] He...

[7:30] He...

[7:31] He...

[7:32] He...

[7:33] He...

[7:34] He...

[7:35] He...

[7:36] He...

[7:37] He...

[7:38] He...

[7:39] He...

[7:40] He...

[7:41] He...

[7:42] He...

[7:43] He...

[7:44] He...

[7:45] He...

[7:46] He...

[7:47] He...

[7:48] He takes people...

[7:49] He's dying, he has a terminal cancer?

[7:53] Is that what it is?

[7:55] Yeah.

[7:56] And he believes that, because of this, there are people out there who are squandering their

[8:01] lives, or being...

[8:02] Songering.

[8:03] Evil, and that's bad too.

[8:05] Honestly, his motivation is pretty fuzzy to me, even though it seems like it should be

[8:11] pretty simple.

[8:12] Pretty simple, like I'm teaching you a lesson thing.

[8:15] It doesn't seem like there's a lot of consistency to his ethos anyway.

[8:20] Because he wants to teach these people a lesson, he puts them in these death traps where they

[8:25] have to make a choice, and the choice usually is, you know, like, will I go through this

[8:31] painful thing to preserve my own life and thus appreciate it more?

[8:36] And every one of these movies has, like, at least two more twists than it needs.

[8:41] They've got weird chronologies.

[8:44] Later on, Jigsaw, or sorry, John has died, he has passed away, and he has acolytes who

[8:53] are doing the actual killing, and...

[8:55] Socolytes?

[8:56] Yeah.

[8:57] Anyway.

[8:58] But that doesn't mean...

[8:59] Apostles?

[9:00] Yeah, apostles.

[9:01] That doesn't mean that actor Tobin Bell doesn't show up for flashbacks, because these movies

[9:04] are full-o flashbacks.

[9:06] Now the first one, yeah, I mean, this was the, it came out in 2004, re-watching it,

[9:11] very 2004 experience.

[9:13] It is, it was made with, like, exactly, it's crazy.

[9:21] It's just that it, like, it's so heavily edited, it's super choppy.

[9:24] For a series of movies where, like, the horror of it is that these people are trapped in

[9:29] a situation and, like, going to die.

[9:33] They're edited to, like, the edge of their life.

[9:37] You at no point actually feel like you're stuck in the situation.

[9:40] I'm sure it's just to disguise the fact that they had literally, like, no money to make

[9:45] at least the first one.

[9:46] And then the later ones, when you'd think they'd have money, it feels like every single

[9:50] movie, they didn't actually, like, they just let the cast do their own hair and makeup

[9:53] and show up in their clothes from home.

[9:55] But, you know, who knows?

[9:58] So...

[10:00] The first one, I mean, what you say is true, but also, like, it is positively, you know,

[10:07] restrained in its filmmaking compared to some of the later abuses of editing.

[10:14] So yeah, the first one, obviously, the whole, the premise is people get kidnapped.

[10:18] They have to go through a series of challenges and there's like clues.

[10:23] It's basically like an escape room mixed with, uh, I don't know, like an episode of

[10:27] like a really grisly episode of Fear Factor, um, where, you know, Joe Rogan makes you dig

[10:33] out your own eyeball to get the key to take the bear trap off your head.

[10:37] Um, so the, uh, the first movie ends, basically everybody's dead.

[10:42] Huge hit.

[10:43] Everybody loves this movie.

[10:45] It's the biggest deal.

[10:46] So of course everyone ends up dead.

[10:48] How is it not Hamlet?

[10:50] Tell me what's the difference between that and Hamlet.

[10:52] That's I mean, it feels like Carrie Elwes brings energy that would not be, uh, they

[10:56] would not be out of place in a Hamlet.

[11:00] Like he is, he is chewing every ounce of that scenery, which is just a tiny

[11:05] little bit like basement bathroom.

[11:08] So it's not that much to chew.

[11:10] No, no, but he chews it all.

[11:12] Yeah.

[11:13] Now, how would you compare it to his Academy Award nominated role as Bobby

[11:16] Wobbly in the Ooh, He Loves Me, the Great Balloon Adventure or Big Balloon Adventure?

[11:20] Misremembering, uh, sort of details about that, Elliot.

[11:24] I mean, he didn't win.

[11:25] He was just nominated.

[11:26] Well, he doesn't, does he saw his leg off in Oogie loves?

[11:29] I mean, he, he's always wobbling.

[11:31] Maybe it's because his leg is wobbling.

[11:34] Now, Elliot, uh, what did you think when you got out of the movie theater back in

[11:38] 2004, fresh out of seeing a screening of Saw?

[11:42] I actually did not see it in the theaters.

[11:45] I have to admit.

[11:46] Did you see it at home on home video?

[11:48] I saw it on a, on home, home DVD video.

[11:50] Yeah.

[11:51] So I was taking, I was taking bets with Charlene as to whether or not you'd ever

[11:54] actually watched.

[11:56] Saw because it doesn't necessarily seem like something that would draw that would,

[12:00] you know, that would grab your attention.

[12:02] It's not an old movie and it's not, I like horror stuff.

[12:05] And I remember at the time it was that there were a couple of movies like that

[12:08] and hostile and like Jeepers Creepers where people would be like, they're back

[12:12] kind of low budget, uh, like B movie thrills are back.

[12:17] Like it's great.

[12:18] And then I'd watch them and be like, uh, I mean, these are kind of like the, not

[12:22] the B movies I enjoy, you know?

[12:25] Uh, so I was, I did not continue the saga on further chapters.

[12:30] Hey, no problem.

[12:32] Uh, so after, after the first movie, they made a sequel, a sock was I, as I've

[12:36] already previously mentioned, Dan, you were saying that named after a sock, the

[12:41] Pokemon character and the, uh, the reoccurring character, of course, John

[12:45] Kramer and, uh, and one of the, one of his, uh, Jigsaw's previous victims, a

[12:50] character named Amanda.

[12:52] Uh, but the, the main character in that movie is played by Donnie Wahlberg.

[12:56] He plays a police officer.

[12:57] Whoop, big surprise.

[12:59] That's what he always does.

[13:00] Um, now Dan, uh, you were saying that this was a repurposed script or is there

[13:07] any other reason why it's super messy and extra money?

[13:10] Yeah, I, during my brief, uh, joining you down the path of saw, that was when

[13:17] there was only, uh, when there, that was when there were two foot, uh, sets of

[13:21] footsteps in the sand.

[13:22] It was later on.

[13:23] It wasn't because I was carrying you.

[13:24] It was just because I left.

[13:27] And then Dan sawed off his own legs.

[13:29] And that's why there was only one set of footsteps after that.

[13:31] And there's definitely one set of footsteps because I watch most of these

[13:34] movies while trying to recover from my back pain by walking slowly on a

[13:39] treadmill.

[13:41] I just realized also, we kept saying footsteps.

[13:43] I meant to say footprints.

[13:44] Of course, of course.

[13:45] But, uh, yes, I did the re the research and, um, yeah, this was a, this was a

[13:52] repurposed, uh, script for another movie.

[13:55] Much, much as, uh, say, uh, your later diehards are all or like, I would like

[14:01] gremlins too was originally not a gremlins movie and they just made it into

[14:04] one by adding more gremlins.

[14:07] Cause originally only had some gremlins, but they weren't the main characters.

[14:11] Yeah.

[14:11] Yep.

[14:11] But maybe that's why I'm so confused by the philosophy behind, uh, uh, John

[14:18] Kramer, I feel like I'm going to, I mean, I might ruffle some feathers amongst

[14:23] the, uh, the, the, the sauna files out there, but I think saw two is the worst

[14:29] of the franchise.

[14:31] I certainly the worst of the ones I saw.

[14:34] So saw, uh, saw, yep, exactly.

[14:37] Saw two, uh, I don't need to go too into it.

[14:40] The traps are kind of boring.

[14:41] Not particularly exciting.

[14:43] There's flashbacks and the whole thing kind of ends in the same place that the,

[14:47] the first one ended, which is Donnie Wahlberg stuck in that basement bathroom

[14:52] again, like, whoop, we're there again.

[14:54] So saw three begins whole new dude, a dude gets the, but this is the

[14:59] interesting thing about saw three is the guy who gets the, it's, it's one person

[15:04] who's captured and he has to go through like a carnival fun house, uh, where he

[15:10] is, uh, he encounters other people that are in traps and he has to try and save

[15:15] them.

[15:16] So it's a, like, it's a little bit of a twist trying to keep the franchise fresh.

[15:20] Does it succeed?

[15:22] Not really.

[15:23] But, uh, the, so he goes around, he, I, we, we did, we talked about this for what?

[15:30] Like how long was the episode?

[15:32] Yeah.

[15:32] I don't know, but I will want to, I do want to say like, yeah, he, he, he has the

[15:37] choice of rescuing these people who, the, the, the, the thing that links them is

[15:42] they all maybe could have saved his child who died in a car accident.

[15:48] And I never quite understood what John Kramer wanted him to do, or didn't want

[15:57] him to do like was, was like jigsaw.

[16:00] Did he want him to kill these people or save these people?

[16:03] Like for him, what was the moral choice that he wanted him to make?

[16:10] Yeah.

[16:11] I mean, it, cause so early on, like the, the jigsaws motivation is that he is, uh,

[16:17] dying from a inoperable brain tumor and he tries to like, he tries to kill himself by

[16:23] like driving off a cliff, but somehow he survives because he has that will to live.

[16:27] And I, he wants to see if these people have the same will to live.

[16:32] So even though, even though he drove off a cliff to kill himself, he has this, this

[16:36] mythic will to live that allowed him to survive.

[16:38] And he feels that like, and that's like the, uh, that's the crucible in which all

[16:43] humans can become better and stronger is by being in a death, life and death

[16:47] situation and choosing life, even at the cost of their own body, basically.

[16:53] Um, so it is weird that there's also, he also, there, the, the moral element of

[16:58] it's kind of weird because that's, it's kind of vague.

[17:01] It's like basically whatever he, whatever the plot needs, or if they want to give a

[17:06] character a backstory, like if you've done drugs twice, he's like, fuck it.

[17:10] You got to chop off your own arm or these ants are going to eat you.

[17:14] Um, but it's, and it's also like the ants, the ants are just punching in

[17:19] going, just a job, don't blame us.

[17:22] And like, we're just working, working men.

[17:23] We got to get this done.

[17:25] Like every, uh, like eight out of 10 of his, of his victims, or I guess

[17:30] they're victims are police officers.

[17:32] I would say very much.

[17:33] So, so he's, he's also targeting police.

[17:36] We do they buy tickets or apply for this experience or yeah, it's a lottery system.

[17:43] You have to, well, what you have to do is you get into a virtual queue on the

[17:46] internet, see on my resume that my job perfectly fits a bear track.

[17:55] It's a unique skill.

[17:56] The, so, uh, so he's, he constantly, he's targeting the police, but at the same

[18:01] time, whenever, so he doesn't seem to have, he, he seems to hold the law, at

[18:05] least the upholders of law and contempt, but then he'll constantly be also using,

[18:10] uh, other victims like criminal record as like receipts for why he's doing this to

[18:16] them.

[18:16] So it's like, what the fuck dude?

[18:18] Uh, so it's probably a mistake to look for consistency in the mind of John

[18:24] Kramer, fictional movie villain.

[18:26] Although what's interesting is starting, I think it's starting in saw to most of

[18:31] these, see these saw quills are all directed by the same person.

[18:34] They're almost all directed by Darren Lynn Boozman Bozeman.

[18:38] I was, I don't know.

[18:39] At some point, I think he decided that this was going to be his magnum opus.

[18:42] Cause after saw three shit starts getting really weird because at the end of saw

[18:46] three, John Kramer has been killed by the guy he put through these, uh, tests.

[18:50] His acolyte, Amanda has been killed as well.

[18:53] And you're like, I guess the nightmare is over.

[18:55] No, no, no, not so fast.

[18:56] The nightmare is just beginning.

[18:57] Cause there's four more fucking movies and saw four is weird because, uh, it gets,

[19:05] uh, we find out that Donnie Wahlberg's been kept alive for some reason.

[19:09] And it's a similar sort of thing.

[19:11] Right?

[19:11] Why would you, why would you kill Donnie Wahlberg?

[19:13] I mean, I mean, other than the obvious reasons of when you have someone with

[19:16] the raw charisma, Donnie Wahlberg.

[19:20] So the interest, so it used the same kind of formula saw three where there's

[19:24] obviously lots of flash forwards and flashbacks and it follows one, a police

[19:28] detective as he goes through, like the lesson he's supposed to learn is that

[19:32] he's like, uh, he, he doesn't think before he acts it's the, it's the weirdest shit.

[19:40] Yeah.

[19:41] These lessons are getting very specific.

[19:42] Yeah.

[19:44] So I was like, it's better to give than to receive.

[19:48] So he, uh, you know, he goes through another, like abandoned warehouse full

[19:54] of traps, uh, and he see, he encounters multiple, yeah, multiple victims.

[20:00] That all

[20:02] That he in almost every single case. He fails to keep them from getting their like

[20:07] limbs ripped off their body

[20:09] But the the the movie climaxes with multiple storylines cutting back and forth

[20:15] to where we have one police detective sitting in a chair that is

[20:20] like hovering above like a car battery or something something I'll electrocute him and

[20:25] Then the only thing keeping that guy from from being electrocuted is Donnie Wahlberg hanging from a chain standing on a block of ice

[20:35] At the end of the movie two other giant blocks of ice smashed together

[20:40] Ewok style and smashed Donnie Wahlberg's head, which is hilarious

[20:44] The other guy doesn't die

[20:46] It was a it was a it was a trick because that guy goes on to be the new acolyte

[20:51] I can't remember his name

[20:52] I think it's Hoffman and he's like the bad guy for the next bunch of movies and you look at this guy and he's supposed

[20:58] To be another he's another police detective, but you look at his hair

[21:01] You look at his general face and everything and you're like, this is a bad guy

[21:05] Like this, this is like the villain in a Zalman King movie

[21:08] I do not trust him, but a lot of people trust him for a while until he starts killing them all

[21:15] Now I'm sorry to jump back for a second, but after it's

[21:19] Structure of the saw movies they constantly back and forth

[21:22] After Johnny Wahlberg's head is smashed by two blocks of ice that you know while you're standing on another block of ice

[21:30] Is there like a scene at the end of the credits where the police come in and they open this locked room and like just

[21:36] Like a bunch of a bunch of water comes out, but they're like, how did Donnie Wahlberg die?

[21:41] His head just explode and a kid at summer camp sitting around a campfire figures out the mystery

[21:47] Uh-huh. Yeah that kid encyclopedia Brown. I

[21:51] Mean, I would love it

[21:52] If there was a saw sequel where that it was a crossover with encyclopedia Brown and they bring him in to solve the mystery

[21:57] Saul

[21:59] Saul

[22:04] Is that jigsaw John Kramer

[22:06] Has kidnapped or possibly detective Hoffman, maybe he you know

[22:11] He did captures kidnaps Bugs Meany and is making Bugs Meany go through a series of trials

[22:16] because of all of his various wrongdoings and

[22:20] Encyclopedia Brown has to save him

[22:22] Yeah

[22:22] But the real test is whether encyclopedia Brown is gonna save the guy who's put it who's given him so much torment

[22:28] That's it's real or Hoffman that I went from a lot of Hoffman, which is a step down in terms of villain names

[22:34] Yeah, but does he take on the mantle of jigsaw or he just calls himself Hoffman?

[22:38] Well, they they keep saying like I thought the jigsaw killer was dead and it's like somebody's still doing it

[22:44] Who is it? And it's like obviously this dude

[22:46] so the the fifth the fifth saw movie shows up and I was very

[23:00] Subscribed to the saw of the month

[23:03] Only only saws

[23:05] It only goes for seven months the so the thing the thing that is notable about saw five

[23:10] Is that the main character in that movie is?

[23:13] Played by the dude who played Luke from Gilmore Girls who I have not seen in any other thing at all

[23:19] So it was pretty crazy. So when people were watching Gilmore Girls on like a rewatch or something

[23:24] They're like whatever happened to Luke

[23:26] Well, he got killed by jigsaw because that's what happens in saw five now saw five that kind of shit seems that it's

[23:32] The same sort of shit

[23:33] It's a ton of jumping back and forth

[23:36] We learned that Hoffman is the new jigsaw and he like kills these guys and then this other guys like oh

[23:41] I'm figuring out this Hoffman guy. I don't trust him turns out

[23:45] They face off and then like one guy thinks he kills the other guy, but it was all trap Luke dies Hoffman survives

[23:52] Move on to saw six and saw six I think is actually probably the best one

[23:57] They'd finally figured it out. It only took them five years to work the bugs out now

[24:02] I'm trying to remember one of these featured

[24:04] Features like a group of like five people and it is very much like just a series of escape rooms that they have to get

[24:11] Through and it had a really gory

[24:14] pretty gross

[24:15] Sequence where they have to like stick their arms in a box that has a buzzsaw blade

[24:22] to like drain the blood out of them and they need to get a certain amount of blood to open the door and

[24:28] And there's a pretty gross like bit where they would like they may should do it and the guy like falls down and the

[24:35] His partner is like we did hit and he like lifts up his arm and it's like clearly split half and I'm like

[24:41] I don't think he cares anymore. Like it's fine. Yeah, he's toast. He's roasted get him out of here. He's been jigsawed

[24:50] Now this is where my memory gets a little bit fuzzy, but I feel like saw seven is where

[24:57] Shit like some people on, you know, some reviewers on

[25:02] Letterboxd and on IMDb said this is where the series goes downhill. No, no, no

[25:08] Series went downhill starting with part one, but part seven happens

[25:14] and it's again, it's

[25:16] Hoffman is

[25:18] Making it, you know, he's been figured out. He's killed a whole bunch of other police

[25:22] They're on his case, they think he's dead. Nope. He's not dead

[25:25] He's sneaking around and then the whole thing at the end of it at the end of the day

[25:30] It looks like he's managed to get away free. He's managed to kill jigsaw's wife

[25:34] Now I haven't even talked about Jill Tuck wife of jigsaw now Jill Tuck

[25:38] See, this is where things get a little bit weird daughter of Friar Tuck. Sure because

[25:43] jigsaw's motivation before was that he was dying of cancer, but we learned later on that he's motivated because

[25:51] he his wife was pregnant and then she and she was like a social worker and

[25:58] at the the clinic that she was working at a

[26:02] Like a drug addict was robbing the wanted to rob the clinic while she was pregnant and he

[26:09] Slammed the door against her belly as he was like exiting the scene and that caused the miscarriage which makes jigsaw

[26:17] Go down this path of vengeance

[26:19] So it's kind of like the whole cancer thing seems like an afterthought at this point like I feel yeah

[26:25] So he also just doesn't like crime. He also doesn't like crime. Just a basic doesn't he's like he's

[26:32] basically a Batman

[26:34] Yeah

[26:35] right, I

[26:36] Mean, you know, I or a little bit. He's like I don't see anything different between the two

[26:41] I feel like he's like Batman and the Joker

[26:44] Mixed together, which finally finally have they done that joke man. Yes, they have done that. Okay

[26:50] Did it was it but did it work? Was it good?

[26:54] I didn't read it. Oh, no, but I did taste it and it tasted like paper

[26:58] Not great

[27:00] So the the most exciting thing for for true sock or saw fans is that in part seven?

[27:07] Hoffman is eventually killed by a surprise saw

[27:11] Acolyte because saw a jigsaw John Kramer always has a backup plan and that is

[27:18] Carrie Elwes returns to the series

[27:21] Minus a foot because he chopped it off, but he comes back to the series despite having contract disputes with the

[27:28] creators of saw

[27:30] And they wrote that into the movie

[27:34] Unless I mean I read that in the Wikipedia entry, but that could have been part of the original script

[27:39] So he shows up and then they kill the bad the bad jigsaw with other jigsaws

[27:46] And that's the end of saw seven the final chapter

[27:51] From the internationally acclaimed creators of who shot you comes the movie podcast

[27:56] Maximum film starring producer and film festival programmer Drea Clark as a woman bound by passion

[28:02] I saw this eight months ago on the festival circuit and I loved it film critic Alonzo

[28:07] Duralde as a man corrupted by greed why watch one Hallmark Christmas movie when I can watch seven and

[28:13] Comedian iffy waddy way as a man protecting a love that society simply won't accept

[28:18] I think Pacific Rim is a perfect movie and if you can't accept that I want you out of my life from the makers of

[28:24] The movie podcast who shot you comes maximum film. That's right

[28:28] We changed the name of our show to maximum film, but don't worry

[28:31] We're still a movie review show that isn't just a bunch of straight white dudes

[28:35] So tune in to maximum film at maximum fun org or wherever you get your podcasts. I

[28:44] Listen to bullseye because Jesse always has really good questions. What did John Malkovich wear when he was 20, huh?

[28:51] I don't know how to describe it

[28:53] There's always that moment where Jesse asks the question that the person he's interviewing has not thought of before

[29:00] I don't think anyone's ever said that to me or acknowledged that to me and that is so real

[29:06] Bullseye interviews with creators you love and creators. You need to know from maximum fun org and NPR

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[30:59] Now guys, you know, I had this whole section planned for the back half of this episode,

[31:05] you know, where I was going to ask you your favorite Saw traps and maybe your other favorite

[31:12] performances by star of the Saw movies, Tobin Bell.

[31:17] But honestly, I had a really fucking bad day today.

[31:23] There was a, I had a flood in the basement of one of my bars, again, if you are listening

[31:28] and you want to give me plumbing advice, just email to Dan, he'll pass it along.

[31:34] But so, I really don't have the, it feels kind of silly at this point, what do you guys

[31:40] want to talk about?

[31:41] What do we want to talk about?

[31:42] So this is just sort of like free play time.

[31:43] How are you guys doing?

[31:44] This is sort of like, you know, is this is like, you know, free, free swim.

[31:54] Yeah.

[31:55] This is recess.

[31:56] Dan, you just went to Niagara Falls.

[31:57] Why don't you talk about Niagara Falls?

[31:58] Yeah.

[31:59] I don't know what to say about it.

[32:00] It's, you know, don't go on the main.

[32:01] Well, you can go on the main of the mist.

[32:02] Here's the thing.

[32:03] In 2021, the way that they handle going on the main of the mist, you can't buy tickets

[32:17] online.

[32:18] You got to go there.

[32:19] The main of the mist, for listeners who don't know, is a famous boat that goes through the

[32:21] falls.

[32:22] Yeah.

[32:23] Yeah.

[32:24] It's just not, it's not just a maid that lives in the mist that gives you piggyback rides.

[32:28] But it's not something that's made of mist, you know, like a vampire sometimes.

[32:33] So if you want to go on this boat that goes under the falls, or not under them, but almost

[32:37] under them, you go and you like scan a QR code on your phone and then like they tell

[32:45] you when you can come back and wait in line for about an hour.

[32:50] Is Jake's son in charge of this?

[32:51] Dan, I'm surprised you got out of that one.

[32:53] Oh boy.

[32:54] Well, the main of the mist was wonderful, but they go so close to the falls.

[32:59] If you want to be drenched in freezing water without doing it for some sort of charity,

[33:05] go on the maid of the mist.

[33:07] I don't like that.

[33:08] Dan's review is basically...

[33:09] You also happen to go on like...

[33:10] Oh, sorry.

[33:11] Say it again.

[33:12] I was just saying, you also happen to go on like a unseasonably cold weekend.

[33:18] It was frigid.

[33:19] And perhaps that was the reason why fully one half of my family got sick with a cold

[33:26] after being drenched in water.

[33:29] So Dan's review of Maid of the Mist is amazing, one of a kind experience, too cold, you get

[33:35] wet and minor inconvenience in applying for the ticket.

[33:40] So are there any marvels of American geography that you guys want to complain about?

[33:46] I want to read Dan's reviews around the country.

[33:50] Grand Canyon, breathtaking, majestic, too hot and inconveniently located.

[33:56] Not enough guardrails.

[33:58] How do you get across?

[33:59] Which is true.

[34:00] Having been to the Grand Canyon, you walk up to the edge and you're like, holy shit,

[34:04] I could just fall.

[34:05] I mean, that's why they say, why are you paying for the whole canyon when you're just going

[34:09] to use the edge?

[34:10] Yeah.

[34:11] Now, the Grand Canyon, the safety standards there are basically the same as the Death

[34:15] Star.

[34:16] We'll have just big open spaces without rails, who cares?

[34:20] Well, I feel like it's unrealistic to put a rail around the whole thing, right?

[34:24] No, I wouldn't want a rail around the canyon.

[34:26] What a Tony Hawk level that would be, right?

[34:28] Yeah.

[34:29] It would be amazing.

[34:30] How many points would you get for that shit?

[34:33] So this new freeform structure is going great, guys.

[34:37] Yeah, yeah.

[34:38] So let's just to recap for listeners who might just be joining now, who are just tuning into

[34:43] the podcast.

[34:44] Stuart took us through the whole Saw series, then we had an ad, then Dan gave a withering

[34:49] review of the Maid of the Mist in the Niagara Falls boat, and now we're just kind of talking

[34:54] Grand Canyon.

[34:55] So that's the flophouse to premiere Bad Movie Podcast.

[34:58] We're pivoting into our new podcast, Talking Canyon.

[35:01] I mean, this is a flophouse mini, which I believe my contract states I can do whatever

[35:07] the fuck I want.

[35:08] That's what it says.

[35:09] It says, and I quote, where a kid can be a kid.

[35:14] Yeah.

[35:15] So, I mean, that's, they knew what they were getting into when I started, when I started

[35:22] talking to Scary Saw Voice, they could have jumped off this roller coaster.

[35:26] We don't usually like to pull back the curtain too much on our business affairs for listeners,

[35:29] but when we were negotiating the contract for the mini extension of the regular series,

[35:34] the side letter contract that Stuart did fight very hard for the lawyer to include the language,

[35:39] don't want to grow up, don't want to grow up, I want to be a Toys R Us kid.

[35:42] Yeah, and the lawyer kept advising Stuart, you guys own your own show, you don't have

[35:47] to do this, I don't understand why I'm here.

[35:51] And he's like, this is a super dated reference, dude, and I'm like, have you listened to our

[35:55] podcast?

[35:56] And then you said, now put in the lyrics to the My Buddy song, wherever I go, he goes.

[36:04] So I think since we're talking about horror movies, kind of tonight, I would also like

[36:12] to mention that this past Wednesday, the fifth issue of Elliot Kalin's Maniac of New York

[36:20] was released in newsstands everywhere.

[36:24] Comic book specialty stores, not newsstands.

[36:25] Comic books are almost never available on newsstands these days.

[36:30] I've seen Archie Digests all over the place.

[36:33] You're right, but Maniac of New York doesn't tend to be shelled in the supermarket checkout

[36:36] line along with the Archie Double Digest.

[36:38] Yeah, when are you going to have Double Digest of Maniac of New York?

[36:43] We don't have enough material yet for a Double Digest, but there will be a trade paperback

[36:46] coming out later in the year, collecting the first five issues of this Maniac of New

[36:51] York story.

[36:52] But yeah, the fifth one came out this week.

[36:55] It's on comic book store shelves now, unless it's sold out.

[36:57] But issue number two is getting a second printing.

[37:00] So maybe this one will someday, or the trade will be coming out if you miss it.

[37:04] I was thinking of going actually like going out to a comic store today to get your comic,

[37:11] and then the skies opened up, and the deluge happened, lightning cracked, and Audrey came

[37:21] into my room, and the cats came running into my room, and I did not go out and get them.

[37:25] I'm glad you didn't brave the storm, Dan, because we're recording this on a Tuesday,

[37:28] and new comics don't come out until Wednesdays, because you would have arrived at the comic

[37:31] store drenched and sad, and they would have said, sorry, dude, come back tomorrow.

[37:35] I mean, that is very good to know.

[37:37] Okay, well, I'll give it a try.

[37:40] Comics are the one medium, the one pop culture medium that comes out on Wednesdays, right?

[37:46] It's like...

[37:47] Yes.

[37:48] Unlike, like, books come out on Tues...

[37:51] Almost everything else comes out either on Tuesdays or Fridays, right?

[37:54] Or sometimes Thursdays for movies, you know, but not for all movies.

[37:59] And Sundays, of course, is when God comes out and goes, yoo-hoo, at all the people at

[38:02] church and then goes back in.

[38:03] Yeah, Dan, while you were, while you and your family were...

[38:06] Unless you're Jewish, and he comes out on Saturday and says, yoo-hoo.

[38:09] While you and your family were hiding in your room from the lightning and thunder,

[38:14] I was in my basement with water well above my ankles, furiously trying to pick things

[38:20] off the floor so they don't get soaked.

[38:22] It was really cool.

[38:24] And I was in California where it was dry as a bone, which will not be good come fire season,

[38:29] which starts any day now and lasts until forever.

[38:33] Now, I don't, I don't want to, I don't want to take us too far back down the country road

[38:39] we just came down, but I just, the fact that, yeah, the fact that there are these Archie

[38:44] Digests, like, at the checkout...

[38:47] That was the, that was the alleyway we didn't walk down.

[38:49] At the checkout, just the idea that in this day and age, an Archie comic can be a last-minute

[38:57] impulse buy, like a pack of gum or Snickers.

[39:00] Well, because, Dan, it's not, it's not an adult that's usually, I think, driving this

[39:04] purchase.

[39:05] It's a kid saying, oh, buy me that.

[39:06] Buy me that.

[39:07] Yeah.

[39:08] You don't think it's a person who's like, well, I've read all of these, all of these

[39:12] magazines that are here, and this, this horoscopes book, and what else do you see there?

[39:19] Like a...

[39:20] This time-life special about biblical prophecy next to this time-life special about Star

[39:23] Wars next to this time-life special about the British royal family.

[39:26] Yeah, about Princess Diana, yeah.

[39:28] Yeah.

[39:29] Yeah.

[39:30] All the Sudoku.

[39:31] I've done, I've already picked up John Wayne's favorite barbecue recipes magazine.

[39:35] Oh, oh, this, this is interesting.

[39:40] It seems like a, oh, a tale of a young man torn between two lovers.

[39:44] Uh-huh.

[39:45] Archie.

[39:46] Mm-hmm.

[39:47] And his best friend Jughead seems to be something of a Falstaffian character, you know, a slave

[39:53] to his own appetites.

[39:56] You know, obviously...

[39:57] Yes, the duality of female, of womankind.

[40:00] Yeah, black hair and yellow hair the two kinds I feel like so obviously

[40:06] What is Dan Archie

[40:10] Elliott's Reggie, and I'm Jughead. How does this work? I'm clearly Dilton. Yeah

[40:15] You are a real story. You're probably open Jughead. Dan is either probably more of a mr. Weather

[40:22] Yeah to be fair to be fair I think it may be Stuart's Archie and you're mr. Weather be and I'll

[40:27] I'm Jughead's dog that has adventures in space and time sometimes. Oh

[40:33] Man, so we talked a lot about saw and Archie

[40:36] Dan okay now wait

[40:37] So if if you made a saw movie and you cast it with the Archie characters just spin that scenario for me or saunario

[40:43] It's been for me how that would work

[40:45] Well, is it Archie and Jughead and Reggie is saw or is it that Archie is saw and Jughead and Reggie are in the room?

[40:51] Is Betty saw who's who is a Veronica? Who is it? Mmm?

[40:56] Those are good questions. I I mean, I feel like the obvious choice is that Reggie would be some kind of jigsaw acolyte character

[41:02] He are like you suspect him immediately and your suspicions will be confirmed at the very end

[41:07] But you realize that none of your actions could every single action

[41:11] You've done will lead you to a situation where you're getting crushed by I don't know like and like like a giant

[41:18] anvil or

[41:20] I'm trying to think if it's Jughead like a hamburger. I mean, you know

[41:24] Who's the closest to a villain? Mr. Lodge, I mean, mr. Lodge could be a saw there's actually honest

[41:29] Mr. Lodge is the hero of that story the fact that he hasn't he hasn't

[41:34] Shiftless charmless personality list

[41:38] lay about is

[41:40] now there is a saw trap in the beginning of saw 7 which is also the only

[41:46] movie in the series that's in 3d where a that we have a love triangle where

[41:52] There's two men and the woman they both love the woman

[41:56] they both love are in a situation where they're all trapped between like three chainsaws and

[42:04] They like and like they're they can control who gets chainsawed, but they like somebody's definitely getting chainsawed is the answer

[42:11] And so I feel like that's that's like written right there. That's Archie. That's Archie bait right there

[42:17] Okay, so you did with Archie, okay now the Muppets you're casting the song will be with the Muppets who's playing who gonzo is saw

[42:24] It goes with that thing. He's a spiral nose. Sure. And was it like Fozzie and Kermit are trapped in the I didn't even I didn't

[42:30] Even get to have her in Waldorf

[42:32] Speaking of speaking of you mentioned

[42:35] Gonzo spiral nose. We didn't even mention the fact that I think Dan you saw a spiral in the movie right? Yeah

[42:42] So, how does it how does it tie into the full mythology of all seven movies that I explained in a hundred percent accurate?

[42:49] Oh, I also want to know how it ties into the Uzumaki series

[42:51] Which is what I think of when I think of spirals, huh?

[42:53] You know

[42:54] It does not in the Muppets I tied into the Muppets and tie it into the Muppets too and maybe throw in some of the dinosaurs

[43:00] In there, you know what I'm which ones I'm talking about not the mama. Anyway continue. I

[43:03] I I don't want to spoil too much of it since it is still you know out there in theaters for people who

[43:10] Who might want to see it but it's out of theaters you can spoil it cuz it'll gone and they'll never be able to see

[43:21] The villain in it is another one of your

[43:23] We've sent the Fox in the hound back to the Disney ball to serve out its sentence for the crimes that committed. Yeah

[43:31] No, um, you know, it's another one of these movies where

[43:36] You will not be surprised by who is revealed to be

[43:40] The latest saw acolyte, but it's not you know, it's not one of these

[43:44] direct saw acolytes the meaning of the

[43:48] Title is sort of that it spirals out people are now being

[43:51] inspired by

[43:53] Okay

[43:54] You're getting to the point where I assume it's it's long enough ago that you have people who could not have known the original saw

[44:00] And are now learning about it either secondhand or they're they're yeah acolytes of acolytes or I mean

[44:05] I feel like about it on Snopes or something was saw real. Let me look it up true

[44:10] Okay, Snopes says it's true. He was real. Well, let me learn more about him that kind of thing

[44:13] Yeah, the watch the A&E biography about about saw let's see. Oh, yeah interesting. Oh, so so

[44:21] It's all about saw I'm sure there's

[44:24] I'm actually surprised like it is it is a shame that the all seven movies in the series ended before they could have

[44:31] Some like, you know, like true crime podcast guy gets sawed to death

[44:36] Like they did that new Halloween movie. Um, so

[44:40] Guys, we've had a lot of fun talking about saw

[44:43] Do we have any final thoughts Elliot? I think you're you mentioned you wanted to say something about the saw franchise

[44:50] Yeah, you're right. I've had you I said ahead of time when I didn't know what the theme of the episode was

[44:54] I said Stewart. I have a lot to say about the sauce. I hope this episode is about saw

[44:58] Saw is this is a franchise that I don't know particularly. Well, like the first movie was not for me and I

[45:05] Admire less I admire Stewart's grit in watching and sitting through all the movies. I admire his stick-to-itiveness in this one

[45:11] I admire his choice not to burden himself with children that would take up his time and make it impossible for him to watch all

[45:17] seven saw movies

[45:19] and in under a week

[45:22] That's less that's more than one a day which is ridiculous

[45:26] But more than anything, I'm glad that Stewart did the work so that I don't have to see the saw movies

[45:31] Because I don't want to see saw

[45:34] Dan top that

[45:37] Jordan insert the teen which top that rap here

[45:48] Legally do oh

[45:51] man, if

[45:53] If I if the government gives out some big stimmies all that money's going right to buy in the rights of that song

[45:59] So this reminds me so we talked about a saw encyclopedia brown crossover

[46:02] I want to see a teen which teen wolf crossover

[46:05] I want more crossovers more crossover movies and then I want like I want to be saw and so Jason and Freddie wake up

[46:12] And they're in one of saws traps

[46:14] but then when they get out of it saw learns it's all a dream that the tall man has put him in and then

[46:19] Somehow we're gonna get some critters in there, too. I haven't totally figured it out yet

[46:23] And it turns out it's all going on inside of Michael Myers head

[46:26] They're all different aspects of his personality that are all fighting each other

[46:30] But just when it seems that we've gotten to the final twist, uh-oh the Mars attacks aliens come

[46:37] Versus the Mars attacks aliens, I mean, I don't I don't think I need to say this out loud

[46:41] But I might as well that's of course, this is all trademarked the flop house if anyone tries to steal

[46:50] This is I wonder it reminds me that there was never a or maybe there will maybe there was I don't know about it that

[46:56] Asylum or some other place didn't do like a low-budget ready player one

[46:59] That's all public domain characters. Like it's all like Robin Hood and stuff like that. Like congratulations. You invented the League of Extraordinary

[47:08] No, but that's not the same thing, you know what I mean, but that is the League of Australian gentlemen now

[47:12] I I mean I'd heard I think I heard rumors

[47:15] He what is it Universal wants to do a crossover between the Fast and Furious series and the Jurassic World series

[47:22] Which man that sounds great. I mean that movie better end with Dracula showing up and biting a dinosaur and it turning into a vampire

[47:29] dinosaur

[47:31] It's like the the I'm kind of curious to see I mean we should watch the new space jam for this podcast

[47:37] But the fact that they're like every Warner Brothers property will be showing up in this movie and that like they already released those stills

[47:44] We're like the droogs from Clockwork Orange seemed to be there at the game unless that was a mocked-up thing

[47:49] But I hope it was I hope it was real just like everything it like they're gonna at a certain point

[47:54] They're gonna have to pull in Rick from Casablanca to play like oh, man, that's gonna be great. Yeah, and there's Captain Renaud

[48:00] I was about to say that that would be a good excuse for me to wear my

[48:05] Michael Jordan Space Jam Jersey

[48:07] But I find that I wear that almost every week. So

[48:11] Yeah, it's just part of my wardrobe now now your traditional finishing the soft franchise

[48:17] Congratulation sure. Uh-huh. Yep. That's and yeah to do that also to celebrate the fact that my back was feeling better

[48:23] I ran around the apartment. I gave imaginary people high-fives

[48:28] It was it was great did a couple of push-ups

[48:31] so Dan

[48:32] Do you have any final thoughts on these saw franchise or you can you can pause saw and give a final thought on?

[48:41] Niagara Falls

[48:44] I got

[48:46] You know, I can't be too down on Niagara Falls. I got a great lenticular keychain

[48:53] With my name on it

[48:58] What your name was

[49:00] If you move it back and forth fireworks go off in the background in the foreground my name Dan gets

[49:07] Bigger and bigger and bigger and how is this? How is this Niagara Falls related?

[49:13] Does it say at Niagara Falls in the bathroom? Oh on the other side. It says Niagara Falls, but all the the hot lenticular action is

[49:23] What is

[49:26] Club and it says hot lenticular action and it's just all these drunk businessmen coming in and being totally disappointed

[49:32] Yeah, the strippers are just like oh

[49:35] if you like move your eye if you move your head slightly to the left my

[49:40] My bra will disappear and if you move it back it's there again

[49:46] Yeah, that's yeah, that's what they want they're like I want that bra back the

[49:51] So we've had a lot of fun

[49:54] Dan didn't tell me what the lenticular keychain that says Stewart on it does I guess that's gonna

[50:00] save for the next mini. You turn it one way and it's Cariel's ways with a leg, and you turn it the other way and it's Cariel's ways, and his leg is gone, and he's like, oops.

[50:10] Yep, he's got his hands out, and he says, what, I don't know.

[50:16] He's wearing a bathing suit on the beach, and there's a bear trap that's pulling down the back of the bathing suit to show that he has a tan, and it's called Copper Saw.

[50:26] There is a moment, I think it's in Saw VI, when the bear trap, the original bear trap comes back.

[50:35] That's the closest thing that series has to like, because he never used the same fucking trap twice except for this one bear trap.

[50:44] And it's kind of crazy because it's like, you put all this work into making this fucking sick trap to kill people, and then you just do it once and you're done?

[50:54] Like, why don't you use that thing a couple times?

[50:57] That's the beauty of the experience is that it's here, and then it's just a memory for, he's like the Christo of torturers.

[51:02] It's just like an experience that he wants you to carry with you, you know?

[51:05] Yeah, I guess, and they always involve like a cassette tape that says their specific name, so you can't use it for someone else, right?

[51:13] Yeah, it's a spaceman singing happy birthday to you, and he says your name in the song.

[51:18] Yeah, he like flipped in the little tab too, so you can't record over it.

[51:23] I mean, you could put some scotch tape over it if you wanted to, but that feels cheap.

[51:27] Why would you want to at that point? What's so important that you've got to record it on that particular tape?

[51:32] So this dovetails nicely into my final thoughts.

[51:36] You know, the Saw series is a series that I wasn't particularly excited about.

[51:45] I'd only seen the first – I'd seen the first three previously.

[51:48] I like the series where you saw the first three and you weren't sure about it yet.

[51:53] To be fair, I think the same thing happened to you with Transformers.

[51:58] I like slogged my way through three of them, like maybe this time.

[52:04] It's like Lucy with the football.

[52:06] Like each time Michael Bay is like, you're going to like this one, psych!

[52:10] So what I will say is the series gets stranger and cheaper and more like a weird television show the longer it goes on.

[52:22] And so I feel like I like the later movies more because they are dumber and weirder and cheaper.

[52:31] So I'm glad I watched the whole series.

[52:34] Would I recommend it to anyone? Under no circumstance.

[52:37] I don't think they're worth your time.

[52:39] Maybe, Elliot, you should – maybe while you're washing dishes or if you want to take some time away from the family.

[52:47] Or maybe if you want to spend some time with the family, you can teach them all about problem solving and getting out of traps.

[52:53] Yeah, morality, problem solving, where to buy hardware, how to use it only once.

[52:57] Yeah.

[52:59] So I think –

[53:02] I go, kids, it's time for our carry-always-devil feature, The Princess Bride and Saw.

[53:07] You're going to love it.

[53:09] So what I will say is I think I totally nailed it.

[53:13] We delivered a perfect mini every time.

[53:17] 100% kill rate.

[53:21] Yep, no scope.

[53:22] Did it again.

[53:24] So for the Flophouse, I am Stuart Wellington saying thank you to MaxFun, our network that puts this out.

[53:31] Thank you so much to Jordan Cowling who helps make this somewhat listenable.

[53:35] Thank you to my two friends, Dan and Elliot, who want to spend this time with me, Stuart, and just hang out and chat and bullshit and ask me about my Dan.

[53:45] I'm like, it wasn't that great, guys.

[53:47] And they're like, OK, we'll talk about Saw because that's what you told us we were talking about.

[53:51] I'm like, OK, let's do it.

[53:53] Yeah, we really cracked the whip.

[53:56] We were like, yeah, boo-hoo, crime your river, tiniest violin, get with the Saw.

[54:00] I – just in summary, I've been Stuart Wellington.

[54:07] I've been Dan McCoy.

[54:09] I've been Elliot Kalin.

[54:10] That's not a summary of anything you said before, really, but thank you, listeners.

[54:16] MaxMunFun.org, comedy and culture.

[54:25] Artists owned. Audience supported.

FH Mini 31 - Stu Sees Saws

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