FH Mini 31 - Stu Sees Saws

[0:00] Hey there, welcome to another Flophouse mini.

Stuart Wellington

[0:08] That is right, it's a mini episode of the Flophouse podcast, a podcast about bad movies.

[0:14] Is tonight's mini going to be about bad movies or is it going to be about something else

[0:18] entirely?

[0:19] You better listen and find out.

[0:20] My name is Stuart Wellington and I'm joined by...

[0:24] Hey there, it's me, Dan McCoy.

Elliott Kalan

[0:27] Hey, it's me, Elliot Kalin, continuing the theme of all of us saying hello as if we're

[0:32] recognizing you at a party but not really remembering where we know you from.

Stuart Wellington

[0:36] Hey, you!

[0:38] Just don't call somebody big guy.

[0:41] I've gotten that before and never makes me feel good.

[0:45] I've never gotten that.

[0:46] Never gotten it.

[0:47] Never in my whole life.

[0:48] You like a big guy?

Elliott Kalan

[0:49] Never been called big guy.

[0:50] What do you get called?

[0:52] Chief?

[0:52] Pocket mouse?

[0:53] Champ?

[0:53] Little dude?

[0:55] Yeah, skinny small.

[0:57] Sporto?

[0:58] Sporto, yeah.

[0:59] Sporto, Greedo, yeah.

[1:02] Momonadon, Ponda Beba, Snaggletooth, Amanaman, Chief Chirpa, really any Star Wars character

[1:09] I've been called, yeah.

[1:10] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:11] Now, listeners are probably assuming Eli's just going to continue naming Star Wars characters

[1:15] for the rest of the episode and...

[1:17] I could do it, EV99.

[1:18] Let's get into the droids, everybody.

[1:20] Yep.

[1:22] This episode is not a living Wookieepedia.

[1:26] No, it's...

Elliott Kalan

[1:27] Go on.

[1:29] Let me just say, that is something that we did in the car this past weekend where my son

[1:34] wanted to see how many Star Wars...

[1:37] He wanted to see how many Harry Potter characters he could name.

[1:40] And then I bet him I could name more Star Wars characters.

[1:42] And then eventually he told me to stop naming Star Wars characters.

Dan McCoy

[1:46] That's what the listening audience has been trying to do to their phones for years.

[1:51] That's the thing.

[1:52] You don't hear.

Stuart Wellington

[1:53] See, the first couple Star Wars characters, it's charming.

[1:56] Everybody loves that shit.

[1:58] Then you get a little bit deeper and people are like, oh yeah, I guess I remember that.

[2:02] And then after a while they're like, fuck, stop, dude.

[2:05] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[2:05] There was a lot for my wife of, you're making this up.

[2:08] You're making that one up.

[2:09] And I said, nope, Kawati Mundi is a real Jedi elder.

[2:12] Kiyati Mundi, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[2:14] Kiyati Mundi, that's what it is.

[2:15] And how did she react when you mentioned Elan's sleazebagano?

Elliott Kalan

[2:21] Well, it was around the time I got to Kit Fisto that she said, none of these are real.

[2:26] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[2:27] Oh, he's real.

[2:29] And he's incredible.

[2:31] And he's spectacular.

[2:32] Yeah.

[2:32] So, Stu, what are we going to do today?

[2:34] So, guys, would you like to...

S4

[2:39] Do you want to play a little game?

Stuart Wellington

[2:42] Sure.

[2:43] Okay, George.

[2:44] Stuart, did you somehow add reverb to your voice just then?

[2:46] Jordan, go back.

[2:47] Make sure that sounds super fucking scary.

[2:50] Because you know what?

[2:51] That's right.

[2:52] Tonight, we're doing an episode of Saw Talk.

[2:54] Talking Saw on the Sockwolves.

[2:56] And the Saw's Saw-tomatic universe feature, as talked about by me, Stuart Wellington, and my co-hosts.

[3:05] Dan McCoy.

[3:06] Uh-huh.

[3:06] And Elliot Saulin.

[3:08] Oh, wow.

[3:09] You're already getting into the spirit of the game.

Elliott Kalan

[3:10] It took me a while.

[3:11] It took me a while.

Dan McCoy

[3:11] It didn't, like, you know...

[3:13] Saw-tomatic?

[3:14] It didn't hit my brain immediately as what it was.

Elliott Kalan

[3:17] By the time you said Saw and Sockwolves, I was on board, Dan.

[3:20] Okay.

[3:21] And the SS Saw pun.

Stuart Wellington

[3:22] Uh-huh.

[3:23] Now, uh...

[3:24] And, yeah, and, I mean, we're all saunophiles.

[3:27] Uh-huh.

[3:27] And I just...

[3:29] A little bit of background for anybody who has not been anxiously following my Twitter feed over the last couple of weeks.

[3:37] I recently threw out my back again.

[3:41] It's a reoccurring problem.

[3:43] Please do not write an email to Dan to give me advice on how to take care of my back.

[3:47] I already have a physical therapist, and it's going much better now.

[3:51] But I was kind of out of commission for a little bit, and I did what any right-thinking person would do.

[3:58] While lying on the floor in pain, I made the decision to watch all seven of the main franchise Saw movies in order, because they're all on HBO Max.

[4:11] As if I...

[4:12] You didn't watch the side movies like Saw-low.

Dan McCoy

[4:15] Yep.

[4:16] A Saw-war story.

Stuart Wellington

[4:18] Uh-huh.

[4:19] Yep.

[4:19] Do we have other ones?

[4:20] I bet we can think of some.

[4:22] Rogue Saw.

Elliott Kalan

[4:24] Well, there's also the Saw-walk adventure, the battle for Endor.

[4:28] Yeah, sure.

Stuart Wellington

[4:29] Yep.

[4:30] Goes...

[4:30] Yep, it's more.

[4:31] Yep.

[4:32] See, when you said Saw-low, I thought you were talking about Sallow, 120 Days of Sodom, but...

Elliott Kalan

[4:37] I mean, it's possible he was.

[4:38] Yeah.

[4:38] I was talking about the Woody Allen film Sweet and Lowdown.

[4:41] Mmm.

[4:42] It's called either Saw and Lowdown or Sweet and Sawdown.

Stuart Wellington

[4:45] Yep.

[4:45] Well, in any case, let's move on.

[4:48] Starting Saw and Pen.

[4:49] I think what had actually happened was I started watching the first Saw movie because Spiral's

[4:54] in theaters now, or was in theaters?

[4:56] I don't remember.

[4:58] And...

Elliott Kalan

[4:58] Time is not a fixed continuum.

[5:00] It could be all at the same time.

[5:02] You're like Billy Pilgrim.

[5:03] Exactly.

[5:03] You're experiencing all at once.

[5:04] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[5:04] Thank you, Elliot.

[5:06] So, and I did a Instagram Live where I made the bold claim that I was going to run the

[5:13] series and watch all the movies.

[5:15] And you know what?

[5:16] I actually did it.

[5:17] And we're going to talk about it today here on The Flap House.

[5:20] Congratulations, Stuart.

[5:21] Now, Dan, we had talked previously...

[5:22] This is Stuart's Saw mitzvah.

Elliott Kalan

[5:24] He finally did it.

[5:25] He watched all the movies.

[5:26] Now, luckily...

[5:27] Today, he is a Saw.

Stuart Wellington

[5:28] As you guys...

[5:29] As I explained in the email when I was talking about this mini with you guys, I mentioned

[5:33] we just got to make sure we watch all seven movies before night.

[5:37] So, I'm really eager to hear about your favorite traps.

Elliott Kalan

[5:41] Stu, I think you may have gotten our text chain mixed up with maybe a different text chain

[5:45] that Dan and I are not on.

Dan McCoy

[5:47] I do actually...

[5:48] I will say that I did see that Stuart was doing this, and I'm like, for some dumb reason,

[5:55] seeing as I didn't even like the one Saw movie that everyone seemed to think was the good

[6:00] one, I was like, oh, yeah, I'll do that, too.

[6:02] Why not?

[6:03] I also like to waste my life, and then I bailed after number three.

[6:08] What?

Stuart Wellington

[6:10] Yeah.

[6:10] What did you...

[6:11] Well, we actually talked about Saw 3 here on The Flap House many, many years ago.

[6:16] I think it was one of our first...

[6:17] It was like our third or fourth episode.

[6:20] It was before I joined.

[6:21] Please do not go back and listen to it.

[6:22] I'm sure I said something horrible on it.

[6:25] So please don't listen to it.

[6:26] Yeah, yeah.

[6:26] It was horrible.

[6:26] I'm the fucking worst.

[6:28] You're saying you're very sorry.

[6:30] Thank you, yes.

Dan McCoy

[6:31] It was a less mature show in those days.

Stuart Wellington

[6:33] Elliot is...

[6:34] Yeah, I feel like Elliot's really getting into the spirit of the game.

[6:37] Dan, you gotta catch up or you're gonna get your head sawed off.

[6:40] So...

[6:41] What?

[6:41] That's like the trap.

[6:42] Stuart, I've known you for years.

[6:44] The thing is, just like John Kramer, aka the Jigsaw Killer, I wouldn't actually be sawing your head off.

[6:52] It would be you not succeeding in the trap that I set for you.

[6:55] Oh, right, right, right.

[6:56] So no court could convict me.

[6:57] No court.

[6:58] Whatever.

[6:58] Legally, it's not his fault.

[6:59] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[7:00] Uh-huh.

[7:01] So...

[7:02] That's how Rube Goldberg got away with all those murders.

[7:06] So...

Dan McCoy

[7:06] That's Dan...

[7:07] A writ of habeas saw.

[7:09] Yep.

Stuart Wellington

[7:10] So Dan...

[7:10] I mean, it's barely a pun, but sure, okay, yeah.

[7:12] I don't know.

[7:13] Dan, you're a saunophile.

[7:15] Why don't you, for those at home who maybe are not familiar with the Saw series, can you

[7:20] give us a quick rundown of what the Saw series is all about?

Elliott Kalan

[7:23] A saunopsis, if you will.

[7:24] Oh, thank you.

[7:25] I will.

Dan McCoy

[7:26] It's about...

[7:26] There's, again, a not-killer named Jigsaw who...

[7:32] Not his name.

Elliott Kalan

[7:34] His name is John Kramer.

[7:35] His name is...

[7:36] It's just Jeremiah Ignatius Gisaw.

Dan McCoy

[7:40] Merely a kidnapper and torturer of humans.

[7:44] Builder of traps.

[7:46] Uh-huh.

[7:47] He takes...

[7:49] Like, he's dying.

[7:50] He has terminal cancer.

[7:53] Is that what it is?

[7:54] Yeah.

[7:54] And he believes that because of this, there are people out there who are squandering their

[8:00] lives or being...

[8:02] Sondering.

[8:03] ...evil, and that's bad, too.

[8:05] Honestly, like, his motivation is pretty fuzzy to me, even though it seems like it should

[8:11] be pretty simple.

[8:12] A pretty simple, like, I'm teaching you a lesson thing.

[8:14] But it doesn't seem like there's a lot of consistency to his ethos anyway.

[8:20] Because he wants to teach these people a lesson, he puts them in these death traps where they

[8:25] have to make a choice.

[8:27] And the choice usually is, you know, like, will I go through this painful thing to preserve

[8:32] my own life and thus appreciate it more?

[8:35] And every one of these movies has, like, at least two more twists than it needs.

[8:40] Um, they've got weird chronologies.

[8:43] Oh, yes.

[8:44] Later on, Jigsaw, or sorry, John has died.

[8:47] John Cramer, thank you.

[8:48] Yeah.

[8:49] He has passed away.

[8:50] And, you know, he has acolytes who are doing the actual killing.

[8:55] Saucalites.

[8:55] Yeah.

[8:56] Anyway.

[8:56] But that doesn't mean...

[8:57] Suppostles?

[8:58] Yeah.

[8:59] Suppostles.

Stuart Wellington

[8:59] That doesn't mean that actor Tobin Bell doesn't show up for flashbacks.

[9:03] Because these movies are full of flashbacks.

[9:06] Now, the first one, yeah, I mean, this was the...

[9:08] It came out in 2004.

[9:10] Rewatching it.

[9:11] Very 2004 experience.

[9:13] It is...

[9:14] It was made...

[9:14] They keep talking about the War on Terror.

[9:16] Exactly.

[9:17] It's crazy.

[9:18] The...

[9:19] It's just that it, like, it's so heavily edited.

[9:23] It's super choppy.

[9:24] For a series of movies where, like, the horror of it is that these people are trapped in a situation and, like, going to die.

[9:33] They're edited to, like, the edge of their life.

[9:36] They're...

[9:37] You at no point actually feel like you're stuck in the situation.

[9:40] I'm sure it's just to disguise the fact that they had literally, like, no money to make at least the first one.

[9:46] And then the later ones, when you'd think they'd have money, it feels like every single movie, they didn't actually, like...

[9:51] They just let the cast do their own hair and makeup and show up in their clothes from home.

[9:55] But, you know, who knows?

[9:58] So...

Dan McCoy

[9:58] Well, also, I mean, having rewatched the first one, I mean, what you say is true, but also, like, it is positively, you know, restrained in its filmmaking.

[10:09] Okay, yeah, yeah.

[10:09] Compared to some of the later...

[10:11] The later abuses of editing.

Stuart Wellington

[10:14] So, yeah, the first one, obviously, the premise is people get kidnapped.

[10:18] They have to go through a series of challenges and there's, like, clues.

[10:23] It's basically like an escape room mixed with, I don't know, like an episode of, like, a really grisly episode of Fear Factor.

[10:31] Where, you know, Joe Rogan makes you dig out your own eyeball to get the key to take the bear trap off your head.

[10:37] So, the first movie ends, basically everybody's dead.

[10:42] Huge hit.

[10:43] Everybody loves this movie.

[10:45] It's the biggest deal, so, of course, they have to make more.

Elliott Kalan

[10:47] I mean, everyone ends up dead.

[10:48] How is it not Hamlet?

[10:49] Tell me.

[10:50] What's the difference between that and Hamlet?

Stuart Wellington

[10:52] That's, I mean, it feels like Cary Elowes brings energy that would not be out of place in a Hamlet.

[11:00] Like, he is chewing every ounce of that scenery, which is just a tiny little, like, basement bathroom.

[11:08] So, it's not that much to chew.

[11:10] No, but he chews it all.

[11:12] Not a lot of scenery.

Elliott Kalan

[11:12] Now, how would you compare it to his Academy Award nominated role as Bobby Wobbly in The Who He Loves in The Great Balloon Adventure?

Dan McCoy

[11:18] Maybe misremembering some details about that, Elliot.

[11:24] I mean, he didn't win.

Stuart Wellington

[11:25] He was just nominated.

[11:26] Well, he doesn't.

[11:26] Does he saw his leg off in Oogie Loves?

[11:29] I mean, he's always wobbling.

[11:31] Maybe it's because his leg is on a loose.

[11:33] That's why he's wobbling.

[11:34] Now, Elliot, what did you think when you got out of the movie theater back in 2004, fresh out of seeing a screening of Saw?

Elliott Kalan

[11:42] I actually did not see it in the theaters, I have to admit.

[11:46] Did you see it at home, on home video?

[11:48] I saw it on home DVD video, yes.

Stuart Wellington

[11:50] Really?

[11:51] So, I was taking bets with Charlene as to whether or not you'd ever actually watched Saw, because it doesn't necessarily seem like something that would grab your attention.

[12:02] It's not an old movie, and it's not—

Elliott Kalan

[12:04] I like horror stuff, and I remember at the time, there were a couple of movies like that, and Hostel, and Jeepers Creepers, where people would be like, they're back.

[12:12] Kind of low-budget, like, B-movie thrills are back.

[12:17] Like, it's great.

[12:18] And then I'd watch them and be like, uh, I mean, these are kind of like the not-the-bee movies I enjoy.

[12:24] No.

[12:24] You know?

[12:25] So, I was—I did not continue the saga onto the further chapters.

[12:31] Hey, no problem.

Stuart Wellington

[12:32] So, after the first movie, they made a sequel, a sock, as I've already previously mentioned.

[12:38] Dan, you were saying that—

Elliott Kalan

[12:38] Named after Sock, the Pokemon character.

Stuart Wellington

[12:42] And the reoccurring character, of course, John Kramer, and one of Jigsaw's previous victims, a character named Amanda.

[12:52] But the main character in that movie is played by Donnie Wahlberg.

[12:56] He plays a police officer.

[12:58] Whoop, big surprise.

[12:59] That's what he always does.

[13:01] Now, Dan, you were saying that this was a repurposed script, or is there any other reason why it's super messy and extra muddy?

Dan McCoy

[13:10] Yeah, I—during my brief joining you down the path of Saw, that was when there was only—that was when there were two sets of footsteps in the sand.

[13:22] It was—later on, it wasn't because I was carrying you, it was just because I left.

Elliott Kalan

[13:26] There were two sets of footsteps, and then Dan sawed off his own legs, and that's why there was only one set of footsteps after that.

Stuart Wellington

[13:31] And there's definitely one set of footsteps, because I watch most of these movies while trying to recover from my back pain by walking slowly on a treadmill.

Dan McCoy

[13:40] I just realized also he kept saying footsteps.

[13:43] I meant to say footprints, of course, of course.

[13:45] But yes, I did the research, and yeah, this was a repurposed script for another movie, much as, say, your later diehards are all repurposed.

Stuart Wellington

[14:00] Or like how Gremlins 2 was originally not a Gremlins movie, and they just made it into one by adding more Gremlins.

[14:06] Because originally it only had some Gremlins.

[14:09] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[14:09] But they weren't the main characters.

[14:11] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[14:11] Yep.

[14:11] But maybe that's why I'm so confused by the philosophy behind John Kramer.

[14:18] Yeah, and I feel like—

Stuart Wellington

[14:20] I'm gonna—I mean, I might ruffle some feathers amongst the sonophiles out there, but I think Saw 2 is the worst of the franchise.

Dan McCoy

[14:31] I—certainly the worst of the ones I saw.

Stuart Wellington

[14:34] So Saw—

[14:34] You saw?

[14:36] Yep, exactly.

[14:37] Saw 2, I don't need to go too into it.

[14:40] The traps are kind of boring, not particularly exciting.

[14:42] There's flashbacks, and the whole thing kind of ends in the same place that the first one ended, which is Donnie Wahlberg's stuck in that basement bathroom again.

[14:52] Like, whoop, we're there again.

[14:54] So Saw 3 begins.

[14:56] Whole new dude.

[14:57] A dude gets—but the interesting thing about Saw 3 is the guy who gets—it's one person who's captured,

[15:05] and he has to go through, like, a carnival funhouse where he is—he encounters other people that are in traps, and he has to try and save them.

[15:15] So it's like—it's a little bit of a twist.

[15:18] Mm-hmm.

[15:19] Trying to keep the franchise fresh.

[15:20] Does it succeed?

[15:22] Not really.

[15:23] But the—so he goes around.

[15:26] He—I—we did—we talked about this for, what, like, how long was the episode?

[15:31] Saw this.

Dan McCoy

[15:32] Yeah.

[15:32] Yeah, I don't know.

[15:33] But I will want to—I do want to say, like, yeah, he has the choice of rescuing these people who—the thing that links them is they all maybe could have saved his child who died in a car accident.

[15:47] Uh-huh.

[15:48] And I never quite understood what John Kramer wanted him to do or didn't want him to do.

[15:58] Like, was—was like—Jigsaw, did he want him to kill these people or save these people?

[16:03] Like, for him, what was the moral choice that he wanted him to make?

Stuart Wellington

[16:09] Yeah, I mean, it—because—so early on, like, the—Jigsaw's motivation is that he is dying from an inoperable brain tumor, and he tries to, like—he tries to kill himself by, like, driving off a cliff.

[16:24] But somehow he survives because he has that will to live.

[16:27] And he wants to see if these people have the same will to live.

Elliott Kalan

[16:31] So even though—even though he drove off a cliff to kill himself, he has this mythic will to live that allowed him to survive.

Stuart Wellington

[16:38] So—and he feels that, like—and that's, like, the—that's the crucible in which all humans can become better and stronger is by being in a death—life-and-death situation and choosing life even at the cost of their own body, basically.

[16:53] So it is weird that there's also—he also—the moral element of it's kind of weird because that's—it's kind of vague.

[17:01] It's, like, basically whatever he—whatever the plot needs or if they want to give a character a backstory, like, if you've done drugs twice, he's like, fuck it.

[17:11] You've got to chop off your own armor.

[17:12] These ants are going to eat you.

Elliott Kalan

[17:16] But it's—and it's also, like—

[17:18] The ants are just punching in going, just a job.

[17:21] Don't blame us.

[17:22] We're just working men.

[17:23] We've got to get this done.

Stuart Wellington

[17:24] Like, every—like, eight out of ten of his victims, or I guess they're victims, are police officers.

[17:32] Yes, I would say very much so.

[17:34] So he's also targeting police.

[17:36] Did they buy tickets or—

[17:38] Yeah, did they apply for this experience or—

[17:40] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[17:41] It's a lottery system.

[17:43] You have to—well, what you have to do is you get into a virtual queue on the internet.

Dan McCoy

[17:47] Oh, wow.

[17:48] You'll see on my resume that my jaw perfectly fits a bear trap.

[17:52] Uh-huh.

Stuart Wellington

[17:54] It's a unique skill.

[17:56] The—so—so he's constantly—he's targeting the police, but at the same time, whenever—so he doesn't seem to have—he seems to hold the law, at least the upholders of the law, in contempt.

[18:07] But then he'll constantly be also using other victims' like criminal record as, like, receipts for why he's doing this to them.

[18:16] So it's like, what the fuck, dude?

[18:19] So—

Elliott Kalan

[18:20] It's probably a mistake to look for consistency in the mind of John Kramer, fictional movie villain.

Stuart Wellington

[18:26] Although what's interesting is starting—I think it's starting in Saw II.

[18:30] Most of these Sawquills are all directed by the same person.

[18:34] They're almost all directed by Darren Lynn Boosman?

[18:37] Boosman?

[18:38] Boosman?

[18:39] At some point, I think he decided that this was going to be his magnum opus.

[18:42] Because after Saw III, shit starts getting really weird.

[18:45] Because at the end of Saw III, John Kramer has been killed by the guy he put through these tests.

[18:50] His acolyte, Amanda, has been killed as well.

[18:53] And you're like, I guess the nightmare's over.

[18:55] No, no, no.

[18:55] Not so fast.

[18:56] The nightmare's just beginning.

[18:57] Because there's four more fucking movies.

[19:01] Saw IV is weird because it gets—we find out that Donnie Wahlberg's been kept alive for some reason.

[19:09] And it's a similar sort of thing where—

Elliott Kalan

[19:11] Why would you kill Donnie Wahlberg?

[19:13] I mean, other than the obvious reasons of the hamburgers.

[19:15] When you have someone with the raw charisma of a Donnie Wahlberg.

[19:19] I guess you're right, a Donnie Wahlberg.

Stuart Wellington

[19:19] So it used the same kind of formula as Saw III, where there's obviously lots of flash forwards and flashbacks.

[19:27] And it follows one police detective as he goes through—like, the lesson he's supposed to learn is that he's like, he doesn't think before he acts.

[19:37] It's the weirdest shit.

[19:39] Yeah, these lessons are getting very specific now.

[19:43] Saw's like, tis better to give than to receive.

[19:47] So he, you know, he goes through another, like, abandoned warehouse full of traps.

[19:55] And he see—he encounters—

[19:56] Some sort of trap house.

[19:57] Yeah, multiple victims that all—that he—in almost every single case, he fails to keep them from getting their, like, limbs ripped off their body.

[20:09] But the movie climaxes with multiple storylines cutting back and forth to where we have one police detective sitting in a chair that is, like, hovering above, like, a car battery or something.

[20:23] Something will electrocute him.

[20:24] And then the only thing keeping that guy from being electrocuted is Donnie Wahlberg hanging from a chain standing on a block of ice.

[20:33] And the movie—at the end of the movie, two other giant blocks of ice smash together Ewok-style and smash Donnie Wahlberg's head, which is hilarious.

[20:45] And then the other guy doesn't die.

[20:46] It was a trick.

[20:48] Because that guy goes on to be the new acolyte.

[20:51] I can't remember his name.

[20:52] I think it's Hoffman.

[20:53] And he's, like, the bad guy for the next bunch of movies.

[20:56] And you look at this guy, and he's supposed to be another—he's another police detective.

[21:00] But you look at his hair, you look at his general face and everything, and you're like, this is a bad guy.

[21:05] Like, this is like the villain in a Zalman King movie.

[21:08] I do not trust him.

[21:10] But a lot of people trust him for a while until he starts killing them all.

Dan McCoy

[21:15] Now, I'm sorry to jump back for a second, but after Donnie Wahlberg—

Stuart Wellington

[21:18] Sure, it's fitting with the structure of the Saw movies.

[21:20] They constantly jump back and forth.

Dan McCoy

[21:22] After Donnie Wahlberg's head is smashed by two blocks of ice, while he's standing on another block of ice,

[21:29] is there, like, a scene at the end of the credits where the police come in, and they open this locked room,

[21:35] and, like, just, like, a bunch of water comes out.

[21:38] But they're like, how did Donnie Wahlberg die?

[21:41] How did his head just explode?

Elliott Kalan

[21:43] And a kid at summer camp, sitting around a campfire, figures out the mystery.

Stuart Wellington

[21:47] It's that kid, Encyclopedia Brown.

Elliott Kalan

[21:50] I mean, I would love it if there was a Saw sequel where there was a crossover with Encyclopedia Brown,

[21:55] and they bring him in to solve the mystery.

Stuart Wellington

[21:57] Solve?

[21:59] Solve?

[21:59] To solve the mystery.

[22:01] Yeah, thank you.

[22:02] Well, what had happened is that Jigsaw John Kramer has kidnapped, or possibly Detective Hoffman, maybe he, you know, he did,

[22:12] captures, kidnaps Bugs Meany and is making Bugs Meany go through a series of trials because of all of his various wrongdoings.

[22:19] That's the thing.

Elliott Kalan

[22:20] And Encyclopedia Brown has to save him, yeah.

[22:22] But the real test is whether Encyclopedia Brown is going to save the guy who's given him so much torment.

[22:28] That's Jigsaw's real.

[22:30] Or Hoffman.

[22:30] They went from Jigsaw to Hoffman, which is a step down in terms of villain names, yeah.

[22:35] But does he take on the mantle of Jigsaw, or he just calls himself Hoffman?

Stuart Wellington

[22:39] Well, they keep saying, like, I thought the Jigsaw killer was dead, and it's like, somebody's still doing it.

[22:44] Who is it?

[22:45] And it's like, obviously this dude.

[22:47] So the fifth Saw movie shows up, and I was very...

[22:52] The movie shows up.

[22:54] The movie wasn't released, it wasn't produced, it just shows up.

Dan McCoy

[22:57] Well, Stuart has subscribed to the Saw of the Month Club.

Stuart Wellington

[23:03] Only Saws.

[23:05] It only goes for seven months.

[23:07] So the thing that is notable about Saw 5 is that the main character in that movie is played by the dude who played Luke from Gilmore Girls,

[23:16] who I have not seen in any other thing at all.

[23:19] So it was pretty crazy.

[23:21] So when people are watching Gilmore Girls on, like, a rewatch or something, they're like, whatever happened to Luke?

[23:26] Well, he got killed by Jigsaw, because that's what happens in Saw 5.

[23:30] Now, Saw 5, that kind of shit seems to...

[23:31] It's the same sort of shit.

[23:33] It's a ton of jumping back and forth.

[23:36] We learn that Hoffman is the new Jigsaw, and he, like, kills these guys, and then this other guy's like, oh, I'm figuring out this Hoffman guy.

[23:43] I don't trust him.

[23:44] Turns out they face off, and then, like, one guy thinks he kills the other guy, but it was all a trap.

[23:49] Luke dies.

[23:50] Hoffman survives.

[23:52] Move on to Saw 6.

[23:53] And Saw 6, I think, is actually probably the best one.

Elliott Kalan

[23:56] Now, Saw 6...

[23:57] They finally figured it out.

[23:58] It only took them five entries to work the bugs out.

Stuart Wellington

[24:01] Now, I'm trying to remember.

[24:02] One of these features, like, a group of, like, five people, and it is very much like just a series of escape rooms that they have to get through.

[24:11] And it had a really gory, pretty gross sequence where they have to, like, stick their arms in a box that has a buzzsaw blade to, like, drain the blood out of them.

[24:25] And they need to get a certain amount of blood to open the door.

[24:28] And there's a pretty gross, like, bit where they, like, they managed to do it, and the guy, like, falls down, and his partner's like, we did it!

[24:37] And he, like, lifts up his arm, and it's, like, clearly split in half.

[24:41] And I'm like, I don't think he cares anymore.

[24:43] Like, it's fine.

[24:45] He's toast.

[24:46] He's roasted.

[24:47] Get him out of here.

[24:48] He's been jigsawed.

[24:51] Now, this is where my memory gets a little bit fuzzy.

[24:54] But I feel like Saw 7 is where, like, some people on, you know, some reviewers on Letterboxd and on IMDb said, this is where the series goes downhill.

[25:07] No, no, no.

[25:08] Series went downhill starting with part one.

[25:11] But part seven happens, and it's, again, it's Hoffman is making, you know, he's been figured out.

[25:20] He's killed a whole bunch of other police.

[25:22] They're on his case.

[25:24] They think he's dead.

[25:24] Nope, he's not dead.

[25:26] He's sneaking around.

[25:27] And then the whole thing, at the end of the day, it looks like he's managed to get away free.

[25:33] He's managed to kill Jigsaw's wife.

[25:34] Now, I haven't even talked about Jill Tuck, wife of Jigsaw.

[25:38] Now, Jill Tuck, see, this is where things get a little bit weird.

[25:41] Daughter of Friar Tuck.

[25:42] Sure.

[25:42] Because Jigsaw's motivation before was that he was dying of cancer.

[25:48] But we learn later on that he's motivated because he, his wife was pregnant.

[25:53] And then she, and she was like a social worker.

[25:57] And at the clinic that she was working at, a, like a drug addict was robbing, wanted to rob the clinic while she was pregnant.

[26:08] And he slammed the door against her belly as he was like exiting the scene.

[26:13] And that causes a miscarriage, which makes Jigsaw go down this path of vengeance.

[26:19] So it's kind of like the whole cancer thing seems like an afterthought at this point.

Dan McCoy

[26:25] Like I feel.

[26:25] Yeah.

[26:25] So he also just doesn't like crime.

[26:28] He also doesn't like crime.

[26:29] Just a basic doesn't like crime guy.

Stuart Wellington

[26:31] He's basically a Batman.

[26:34] Yeah.

[26:35] Right?

Dan McCoy

[26:37] I mean, you know, I.

[26:38] Or a little bit.

[26:39] He's like.

[26:39] I don't see anything different between the two of them.

Stuart Wellington

[26:42] I feel like he's like Batman and the Joker.

[26:43] Joker mixed together, which.

[26:45] Oh, finally.

[26:46] Finally.

[26:47] Have they done that yet?

[26:48] Too great taste.

[26:48] Joke man.

[26:49] Yes, they have done that.

[26:50] Okay.

[26:51] Was it, did it work?

[26:52] Was it good?

Elliott Kalan

[26:53] Yeah.

[26:53] How did it taste?

[26:54] I didn't read it.

[26:55] Oh, no, but I did taste it.

[26:56] And it tasted like paper.

[26:58] Oh, wow.

[26:59] So not great.

Stuart Wellington

[27:00] So the, the most exciting thing for, for true Saw fans is that in part seven, Hoffman is eventually killed by a surprise Saw acolyte.

[27:11] Because Saw, Jigsaw, John Kramer always has a backup plan.

[27:15] And that is, uh, Carrie Elwes returns to the series, minus a foot because he chopped it off.

[27:23] But he comes back to the series despite having contract disputes with the creators of Saw.

[27:30] Um, and he comes-

[27:31] They wrote that into the movie?

[27:32] The contract dispute?

[27:33] They did not write that in.

[27:34] Unless, I mean, I read that in the Wikipedia entry, but that could have been part of the original script.

[27:39] So, uh, he shows up and then, uh, they, they kill, uh, the bad, the, the bad jigsaw with other jigsaws.

[27:47] And that's the end of Saw 7, the final chapter.

S4

[27:51] From the internationally acclaimed creators of Who Shot Ya?

[27:55] Comes the movie podcast Maximum Film.

[27:58] Starring producer and film festival programmer Drea Clark as a woman bound by passion.

[28:02] I saw this eight months ago on the festival circuit.

[28:05] And I loved it.

[28:06] Film critic Alonzo Duralde as a man corrupted by greed.

[28:10] Why watch one Hallmark Christmas movie when I can watch seven?

[28:13] And comedian Ify Wadiwe as a man protecting a love that society simply won't accept.

Dan McCoy

[28:18] I think Pacific Rim is a perfect movie.

S4

[28:21] And if you can't accept that, then I want you out of my life!

[28:24] From the makers of the movie podcast Who Shot Ya?

[28:26] Comes Maximum Film.

[28:27] That's right, we changed the name of our show to Maximum Film.

[28:31] But don't worry, we're still a movie review show that isn't just a bunch of straight white dudes.

[28:35] So tune in to Maximum Film at MaximumFun.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

[28:43] I listen to Bullseye because Jesse always has really good questions.

[28:48] What did John Malkovich wear when he was 20?

[28:51] I don't know how to describe it.

[28:53] There's always that moment where Jesse asks a question that the person he's interviewing has not thought of before.

[29:00] I don't think anyone's ever said that to me or acknowledged that to me.

[29:04] And that is so real.

[29:06] Bullseye.

[29:07] Interviews with creators you love and creators you need to know.

[29:10] From MaximumFun.org and NPO.

Stuart Wellington

[29:13] Now, I feel like with all that great story, I think we could use some blocks for that story.

[29:21] That's right, we have a sponsor today, folks.

[29:24] And Dan, would you like to introduce our sponsor?

Dan McCoy

[29:26] Our sponsor is Storyblocks.

[29:30] Storyblocks.

[29:31] Now more than ever, storytellers and content creators are challenged with producing more video content at a higher quality than ever before.

[29:39] Keep up with the growing demand for modern video content without sacrificing your vision with stock media from Storyblocks.

[29:47] Storyblocks is dedicated to being the world's best royalty-free stock media subscription service with an ever-growing library that has over 1 million high-quality stock assets,

[29:57] including 4K HD footage, After Effects, and Premiere Pro templates, music, images, sound effects, and more.

[30:05] They have affordable subscription plans and tools, and with Storyblocks' unlimited all-access plan,

[30:11] you can get unlimited downloads of everything in their library.

[30:14] And even if your subscription ends, everything you've downloaded is yours to keep.

[30:19] And as part of the ongoing Restock Initiative, Storyblocks has released a new round of collections,

[30:28] Queer Spaces and Faces, created by some really incredible LGBTQI Plus creators

[30:37] that will feature the layered experiences of the LGBTQI Plus community.

[30:45] Explore their library.

[30:47] And subscribe today at storyblocks.com slash flop.

[30:53] That's storyblocks.com slash flop.

Stuart Wellington

[30:59] Now guys, you know, I had this whole section planned for the back half of this episode,

[31:05] you know, where I was going to ask you your favorite Saw traps,

[31:08] and maybe your other favorite performances by star of the Saw movies, Tobin Bell.

[31:16] But honestly, I had a really fucking bad day today.

[31:22] There was a, I had a flood in the basement of one of my bars.

[31:26] Again, if you are listening and you want to give me plumbing advice,

[31:30] just email to Dan, he'll pass it along.

[31:34] But, so, I really don't have the, it feels kind of silly at this point.

[31:40] What do you guys want to talk about?

Dan McCoy

[31:43] What do we want to talk about?

[31:46] So this is just sort of like free play time.

[31:48] How are you guys doing?

[31:49] This is sort of like, you know, this is just like, you know, free swim.

[31:54] Yeah, this is recess.

[31:55] We had Saw class.

Stuart Wellington

[31:56] Dan, you just went to Niagara Falls.

[31:58] Why don't you talk about Niagara Falls?

[32:00] Niagara Falls.

Dan McCoy

[32:03] Yeah, I don't know what to say about it.

[32:05] It's, you know, don't go on the Maid of the, well, you can go on the Maid of the Mist.

[32:10] Here's the thing.

[32:12] In 2021, the way that they handle going on the Maid of the Mist, you can't buy tickets online.

[32:17] You got to go there.

Elliott Kalan

[32:18] The Maid of the Mist, for listeners who don't know, is a famous boat that goes through the falls.

[32:21] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[32:21] Yeah.

[32:22] It's just not, it's not just a maid that lives in the mist that gives you piggyback rides.

Elliott Kalan

[32:28] It's not something that's made of mist.

[32:30] No, no.

[32:30] You know, like a vampire sometimes.

[32:31] Uh-huh.

Dan McCoy

[32:32] True, yeah.

[32:33] So if you want to go on this boat that goes under the falls, you, or not under them, but

[32:37] almost under them, you go and you, like, scan a QR code on your phone, and then, like,

[32:44] they tell you when you can come back and wait in line for about an hour.

[32:50] What is Jake's on charge of this?

Elliott Kalan

[32:51] Dan, I'm surprised you got out of that one.

[32:53] Oh, boy.

[32:54] Well, there you go.

Dan McCoy

[32:55] The Maid of the Mist was wonderful, but they go so close to the falls.

[33:00] If you want to be drenched in freezing water without doing it for some sort of charity, go on the Maid of the Mist.

[33:07] I like that Dan's review.

[33:09] You also happen to go on, like, it was basically, oh, sorry.

[33:12] Say his two.

Stuart Wellington

[33:12] I was just saying you also happen to go on, like, a unseasonably cold weekend.

Dan McCoy

[33:17] It was frigid, and perhaps that was the reason why fully one half of my family got sick with a cold after being drenched in water.

Elliott Kalan

[33:29] So Dan's review of Maid of the Mist is amazing, one-of-a-kind experience, too cold, you get wet, and minor inconvenience in applying for the ticket.

Dan McCoy

[33:39] So are there any marvels of, you know, American geography that you guys want to complain about?

Elliott Kalan

[33:47] I want to read Dan's reviews around the country.

[33:50] Grand Canyon, breathtaking, majestic, too hot, and inconveniently located.

Stuart Wellington

[33:56] Not enough guardrails.

Elliott Kalan

[33:58] How do you get across?

[33:59] Which is true.

Stuart Wellington

[34:00] Like, having been to the Grand Canyon, you walk up to the edge, and you're like, holy shit, I could just fall.

Elliott Kalan

[34:06] I mean, that's why they say, why are you paying for the whole canyon when you're just going to use the edge?

Dan McCoy

[34:10] Yeah.

[34:10] Now, the Grand Canyon, the safety standards there are basically the same as, like, the Death Star.

[34:16] We'll have just, like, big open spaces without rails.

[34:20] Who cares?

Stuart Wellington

[34:20] Well, like, I feel like it's unrealistic to put a rail around the whole thing, right?

Dan McCoy

[34:24] No, I wouldn't want a rail around the canyon.

Stuart Wellington

[34:25] Although, what a Tony Hawk level that would be, right?

Dan McCoy

[34:29] Yeah.

[34:29] It would be amazing.

[34:30] How many points would you get for that shit?

[34:33] So, this new free-form structure is going great, guys.

[34:37] Yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[34:38] So, let's, just to recap for listeners who might just be joining now, who are just tuning into the podcast.

[34:43] Stuart took us through the whole Saw series.

[34:46] Then we had an ad.

[34:47] Then Dan gave a withering review of The Maid of the Mist in the Iagra Falls boat.

[34:52] And now we're just kind of, you know, talking Grand Canyon.

[34:55] So, that's the Flophouse, the premier bad movie podcast.

Dan McCoy

[34:57] Yeah, we're pivoting into our new podcast, Talking Canyon.

Stuart Wellington

[35:01] I mean, this is a Flophouse mini, which I believe my contract states, I can do whatever the fuck I want.

Dan McCoy

[35:08] That's what it says.

[35:09] You can do part of that language.

[35:11] And I quote, where a kid can be a kid.

Stuart Wellington

[35:14] Yeah.

[35:17] So, I mean, that's, they knew what they were getting into when I started, when I started talking to Scary Saw Voice.

[35:23] They could have jumped off this roller coaster.

Elliott Kalan

[35:26] We don't usually like to pull back the curtain too much on our business affairs for listeners.

[35:29] But when we were negotiating the contract for the mini extension of the regular series, the side letter contract that Stuart did fight very hard for the lawyer to include the language.

[35:38] Don't want to grow up.

[35:39] Don't want to grow up.

[35:40] I want to be a Toys R Us kid.

Dan McCoy

[35:42] Yeah.

[35:42] And the lawyer kept advising Stuart, you guys own your own show.

[35:47] You don't have to do this.

[35:48] Who are you negotiating with?

[35:49] I don't understand why I'm here.

Stuart Wellington

[35:50] Yeah.

[35:51] And he's like, this is a super dated reference, dude.

[35:53] And I'm like, have you listened to our podcast?

Elliott Kalan

[35:56] Yeah.

[35:56] And then you said, now put in the lyrics to the My Buddy song.

[35:59] Wherever I go, he goes.

[36:01] Uh-huh.

Stuart Wellington

[36:03] So, I think since we're talking about horror movies kind of tonight, I would also like to mention that this past Wednesday, the fifth issue of Elliot Kalin's Maniac of New York was released in newsstands everywhere.

Elliott Kalan

[36:23] No, comic book specialty stores, not newsstands.

[36:25] Comic books are almost never available on newsstands these days.

Dan McCoy

[36:29] So, I've seen Archie digests all over the place.

[36:32] You're right.

Elliott Kalan

[36:33] But Maniac of New York doesn't tend to be shelled in the supermarket checkout line along with the Archie double digests.

[36:39] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[36:40] When are you going to have double digests of Maniac of New York?

[36:43] We don't have enough material yet for a double digest.

[36:45] That's true.

Elliott Kalan

[36:45] There will be a trade paperback coming out later in the year, collecting the first five issues of this Maniac of New York story.

[36:51] But, yeah, the fifth one came out this week.

[36:54] It's on comic book store shelves now, unless it's sold out.

[36:57] But issue number two is getting a second printing.

[37:00] So, maybe this one will someday.

[37:02] Or the trade will be coming out if you miss it.

Dan McCoy

[37:04] I was thinking of going, actually, like, going out to a comic store today to get your comic.

[37:11] And then the skies opened up, and the deluge happened.

[37:17] Lightning cracked.

[37:20] And Audrey came into my room, and the cats came running into my room.

[37:23] And I did not go out and get it.

Elliott Kalan

[37:25] I'm glad you didn't brave the storm, Dan, because we're recording this on a Tuesday, and new comics don't come out until Wednesdays.

[37:30] Because you would have arrived at the comic book store, drenched in sad, and they would have said, sorry, dude, come back tomorrow.

Dan McCoy

[37:35] I mean, that is very good to know.

[37:37] Okay, well, maybe I'll give it a try.

Stuart Wellington

[37:39] Yeah, comics are the one medium, the one pop culture medium that comes out on Wednesdays, right?

[37:45] It's like...

[37:46] Yes.

[37:47] Unlike books come out on Tuesdays.

[37:50] Almost everything else comes out either on Tuesdays or Fridays, right?

Elliott Kalan

[37:54] Or sometimes Thursdays for movies, you know.

[37:57] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[37:57] But not for all movies.

[37:58] And Sundays, of course, is when God comes out and goes, yoo-hoo, at all the people at church, and then goes back in.

Stuart Wellington

[38:04] Yeah, Dan, while you were...

[38:05] Unless you're Jewish, then he comes out on Saturday and says, yoo-hoo.

[38:08] While you and your family were hiding in your room from the lightning and thunder, I was in my basement with water well above my ankles, furiously trying to pick things off the floor so they don't get soaked.

[38:22] It was really cool.

Elliott Kalan

[38:23] And I was in California where it was dry as a bone, which will not be good come fire season, which starts any day now and lasts until forever.

Dan McCoy

[38:33] Now, I don't want to take us too far back down the country road we just came down, but I just...

[38:40] A saw lane.

[38:42] Yeah.

[38:43] The fact that they're these Archie Digests.

[38:46] Like, at the checkout...

Elliott Kalan

[38:47] That was the alleyway we didn't walk down.

Dan McCoy

[38:49] At the checkout.

[38:51] Just the idea that, in this day and age, an Archie comic can be a last-minute impulse buy, like a pack of gum or a Snickers.

Elliott Kalan

[39:01] Well, because, Dan, it's not an adult that's usually, I think, driving this purchase.

[39:04] It's a kid saying, oh, buy me that, buy me that.

Stuart Wellington

[39:07] Yeah.

[39:07] You don't think it's a person who's like, well, I've read all of these magazines that are here,

[39:13] and this horoscopes book, and what else do you see there?

Elliott Kalan

[39:19] This time-life special about biblical prophecy next to this time-life special about Star Wars next to this time-life special about the British royal family.

[39:26] Yeah, about Princess Diana, yeah.

[39:28] Yeah.

[39:30] All the Sudoku.

[39:31] I've already picked up John Wayne's favorite barbecue recipes magazine.

Dan McCoy

[39:38] Oh, oh, this is interesting.

[39:40] It seems like, oh, a tale of a young man torn between two lovers.

[39:44] Uh-huh.

[39:44] Archie.

[39:45] Mm-hmm.

Elliott Kalan

[39:46] We'll see.

[39:47] His best friend Jughead seems to be something of a false Taffian character.

[39:51] Of, you know, a slave to his own appetites.

[39:56] So, obviously-

[39:57] Yes, the duality of female- of womankind.

[40:00] Yeah, black hair and yellow hair.

[40:01] The two kinds.

Stuart Wellington

[40:03] I feel like, so, obviously, uh, what?

[40:07] Is Dan Archie?

[40:10] Elliot's Reggie and I'm Jughead?

[40:12] How does this work?

[40:13] I mean, I'm clearly Dilton.

[40:14] Yeah.

[40:15] The nerd.

Elliott Kalan

[40:15] You are a real-

[40:16] I think, Stuart, you're probably Jughead.

[40:18] Dan is either Archie or-

Dan McCoy

[40:19] I'm probably more of a Mr. Weatherby, to be honest.

Elliott Kalan

[40:22] Yeah, to be fair.

[40:23] To be fair.

[40:24] I think maybe Stuart's Archie and you're Mr. Weatherby.

[40:26] Wow.

[40:27] I'm Jughead's dog that has adventures in space and time sometimes.

Stuart Wellington

[40:32] Oh, man.

[40:33] So, we talked a lot about Saw and Archie.

Elliott Kalan

[40:36] Dan, if-

[40:37] Okay, now wait.

[40:37] So, if you made a Saw movie and you cast it with the Archie characters, just spin that scenario for me.

[40:43] Or Saw-nario.

[40:44] Just spin for me how that would work.

[40:45] Well-

[40:45] Is it Archie and Jughead and Reggie is Saw?

[40:48] Or is it that Archie is Saw and Jughead and Reggie are in the room?

[40:52] Is Betty Saw?

[40:53] Who's-

[40:53] Who is-

[40:53] Or Veronica?

[40:54] Versonica?

Stuart Wellington

[40:55] Who is it?

[40:56] Those are good questions.

[40:58] I mean, I feel like the obvious choice is that Reggie would be some kind of Jigsaw acolyte character.

[41:03] Like, you suspect him immediately and your suspicions will be confirmed at the very end.

[41:07] But you will realize that none of your actions could-

[41:11] Every single action you've done will lead you to a situation where you're getting crushed by, I don't know, like a giant anvil or-

[41:20] I'm trying to think-

[41:21] If it's Jughead, like a giant hamburger.

Dan McCoy

[41:22] I mean, who's the closest to a villain?

[41:25] Mr. Lodge?

[41:26] I mean, Mr. Lodge could be a Saw.

[41:28] There's actually-

Elliott Kalan

[41:29] I mean, to be honest, Mr. Lodge is the hero of that story.

[41:30] The fact that he hasn't-

[41:32] No, it's true.

[41:33] It's true.

[41:33] He hasn't sawed Archie.

Dan McCoy

[41:34] The shiftless, charmless, personalityless layabout is-

Stuart Wellington

[41:40] Now, there is a Saw trap in the beginning of Saw 7, which is also the only movie in the series that's in 3D,

[41:49] where we have a love triangle where there's two men and the woman they both love- the woman they both love are in a situation where they're all trapped between, like, three chainsaws, and they can control who gets chainsawed, but they all- like, somebody's definitely getting chainsawed is the answer.

[42:12] And so I feel like that's, like, written right there.

[42:15] That's Archie.

[42:15] That's Archie Bate right there.

Elliott Kalan

[42:17] Okay, so you did it with Archie.

[42:18] Okay, now the Muppets.

[42:19] You're casting the Saw movie with the Muppets.

[42:21] Who's playing who?

[42:22] Who's Saw?

[42:22] Gonzo's Saw.

[42:24] Okay, it goes without saying he's got a spiral nose, sure.

[42:27] And was it like Fozzie and Kermit are trapped in the trap?

[42:30] I didn't even get to ask-

[42:31] Statler and Waldorf?

Stuart Wellington

[42:32] Speaking of- you mentioned Gonzo's spiral nose.

[42:36] We didn't even mention the fact that I think, Dan, you saw Spiral in the movie theater, right?

[42:41] I did see Spiral, yeah.

[42:42] So how does it tie into the full mythology of all seven movies that I explained in 100% accurate detail?

Elliott Kalan

[42:49] And I also want to know how it ties into the Uzumaki series, which is what I think of when I think of Spirals.

[42:53] Uh-huh.

Stuart Wellington

[42:54] You know, it does not-

[42:55] And the Muppets.

[42:55] Tie it into the Muppets, too.

Elliott Kalan

[42:56] And the Muppets, and tie it into the Muppets, too.

[42:58] And maybe throw in some of the dinosaurs in there.

[43:00] You know which ones I'm talking about, not the mama.

[43:02] Anyway, continue.

Dan McCoy

[43:04] I don't want to spoil too much of it, since it is still out there in theaters for people who might want to see it.

Elliott Kalan

[43:12] When it's out of theaters, you can spoil it, because it'll be gone, and it'll never be able to see it again.

[43:16] Yeah, it'll be one of the rare oral storytellers that could-

Dan McCoy

[43:19] No, but I mean, like, the villain in it is another one of your-

Elliott Kalan

[43:23] We've sent the Fox and the Hound back to the Disney Vault to serve out its sentence for the crimes it committed.

[43:29] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[43:31] No, you know, it's another one of these movies where you will not be surprised by who is revealed to be the latest Saw acolyte.

[43:42] But it's not, you know, it's not one of these direct Saw acolytes.

[43:46] The meaning of the title is sort of that it spirals out.

[43:50] People are now being inspired by him.

[43:53] Oh, okay, okay, okay.

Elliott Kalan

[43:53] Well, now you're getting to the point where I assume it's long enough ago that you have people who could not have known the original Saw.

[44:00] And are now learning about it either secondhand or they're acolytes of acolytes.

[44:05] Or they just heard about it on Snopes or something.

[44:08] Was Saw real?

[44:09] Let me look it up.

[44:09] True.

[44:10] Okay, Snopes says it's true.

[44:11] He was real.

[44:12] Well, let me learn more about him.

[44:12] That kind of thing.

[44:14] Yeah.

[44:14] Let me watch the A&E biography about Saw.

[44:17] Let's see.

[44:17] Oh, yeah, interesting.

[44:18] Oh, so-

[44:20] And listen to the podcast that's all about Saw.

Stuart Wellington

[44:22] I'm sure there's like a million of them.

[44:24] Yeah, yeah, the crime ones.

[44:24] I'm actually surprised.

[44:26] Like, it is a shame that all seven movies in the series ended before they could have some like, you know, like true crime podcast guy get sawed to death.

[44:36] Like they did in that new Halloween movie.

[44:39] So, guys, we've had a lot of fun talking about Saw.

[44:43] Do we have any final thoughts?

[44:45] Elliot, I think you mentioned you wanted to say something about the Saw franchise.

Elliott Kalan

[44:50] Yeah, you're right.

[44:51] I said ahead of time when I didn't know what the theme of the episode was, I said, Stuart, I have a lot to say about Saw, so I hope this episode's about Saw.

[44:58] Saw is a franchise that I don't know particularly well.

[45:02] I feel like the first movie was not for me.

[45:04] And I admire Stuart's grit in sitting through all the movies.

[45:09] Thank you.

[45:09] I admire his stick-to-itiveness and his discipline.

[45:11] Thank you.

[45:11] I admire his choice not to burden himself with children that would take up his time and make it impossible for him to watch all seven Saw movies.

[45:19] In under a week.

[45:21] Yes, that's less, that's more than one a day, which is ridiculous.

[45:26] But more than anything, I'm glad that Stuart did the work so that I don't have to see the Saw movies because I don't want to see Saw.

[45:34] Dan, top that.

Dan McCoy

[45:37] Jordan, insert the teen witch top that rap here as my rebuttal.

[45:43] The whole thing, the whole scene.

[45:45] Yep.

[45:46] We bought the rights to that, right?

[45:48] We can legally do.

Stuart Wellington

[45:50] Yeah.

[45:51] Oh, man.

[45:52] If the government gives out some big stimmies, all that money's going right to buying the rights to that song.

Elliott Kalan

[45:59] So this reminds me, so we talked about a Saw encyclopedia Brown crossover.

[46:03] I want to see a teen witch, teen wolf crossover.

[46:05] I want more crossovers, more crossover movies.

[46:07] And then I want it to be Saw.

[46:10] And so Jason and Freddy wake up and they're in one of Saw's traps.

[46:14] But then when they get out of it, Saw learns it's all a dream that the tall man has put him in.

[46:18] And then somehow we're going to get some critters in there, too.

[46:21] I haven't totally figured it out yet.

[46:23] And it turns out it's all going on inside of Michael Myers' head.

[46:26] They're all different aspects of his personality that are all fighting each other.

[46:30] But just when it seems that we've gotten to the final twist, uh-oh, the Mars attacks aliens come in.

[46:36] And now it's Michael Myers versus the Mars attacks aliens.

Stuart Wellington

[46:39] I mean, I don't think I need to say this out loud, but I might as well.

[46:43] That's, of course, this is all trademarked the Flophouse if anyone tries to steal our cool ideas.

[46:47] Yeah, of course, all this IP that belongs to other people.

[46:49] Hollywood, don't steal it.

Elliott Kalan

[46:49] TM, TM.

[46:51] This is, I wonder, it reminds me that there was never a, or maybe there was, I don't know about it,

[46:56] that like Asylum or some other place didn't do like a low-budget Ready Player One that's all public domain characters.

[47:01] Like it's all like Robin Hood and stuff like that.

Dan McCoy

[47:04] Congratulations, you invented the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

Elliott Kalan

[47:07] Oh, you're right.

[47:08] No, but that's not the same thing.

[47:10] You know what I mean.

[47:10] But that is the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

Stuart Wellington

[47:12] Now, I mean, I'd heard, I heard rumors that, what is it, Universal wants to do a crossover

[47:18] between the Fast and Furious series and the Jurassic World series, which, man, that sounds great.

Elliott Kalan

[47:23] I mean, that movie better end with Dracula showing up and biting a dinosaur and it turning into a vampire dinosaur.

[47:30] He says, you're right.

[47:32] It's like the, I'm kind of curious to see, I mean, we should watch the new Space Jam for this podcast,

[47:38] but the fact that they're like, every Warner Brothers property will be showing up in this movie

[47:42] and that like, they already released those stills where like the Droogs from Clockwork Orange

[47:46] seem to be there at the game, unless that was a mocked up thing, but I hope it was, I hope it was real.

[47:51] Just like everything.

[47:52] And like, they're going to, at a certain point, they're going to have to pull in Rick from Casablanca

[47:55] to play in the game.

Stuart Wellington

[47:57] Oh man, that's going to be great.

[47:58] Yeah.

[47:59] There's Captain Renault.

[48:00] I was about to say that that would be a good excuse for me to wear my Michael Jordan Space Jam jersey,

[48:07] but I find that I wear that almost every week.

[48:11] So yeah, it's just part of my wardrobe now.

Elliott Kalan

[48:14] That's your traditional finishing the Saw franchise celebration shirt.

[48:18] Uh-huh.

Stuart Wellington

[48:19] Yep.

[48:19] That's, and yeah, to do that, also to celebrate the fact that my back was feeling better.

[48:23] I ran around the apartment.

[48:25] I gave imaginary people high fives.

[48:28] It was great.

[48:30] Did a couple of pushups.

[48:31] So Dan, do you have any final thoughts on the Saw franchise?

[48:35] Or you can pause Saw and give a final thought on Niagara Falls.

Dan McCoy

[48:44] I got, you know, I can't be too down on Niagara Falls.

[48:50] I got a great lenticular keychain with my name on it, Dan.

[48:56] Uh-huh.

[48:57] Thanks for specifying what your name was.

[49:00] If you move it back and forth, fireworks go off in the background, and in the foreground,

[49:05] my name, Dan, gets bigger and bigger and bigger.

[49:10] Uh-huh.

[49:10] And it just says Dan.

[49:11] And how is this Niagara Falls related?

Elliott Kalan

[49:13] Does it say at Niagara Falls in the background?

Dan McCoy

[49:16] Oh, on the other side, it says Niagara Falls.

[49:18] Yeah.

[49:18] But all the hot lenticular action is on the Dan side.

Elliott Kalan

[49:23] What is, what is...

[49:24] I imagine somebody is handing out flyers outside a strip club,

[49:27] and it says hot lenticular action,

[49:28] and it's just all these drunk businessmen coming in and being totally disappointed.

Dan McCoy

[49:32] Yeah, and the strippers are just like,

[49:34] oh, if you, like, move your eye,

[49:37] if you move your head slightly to the left,

[49:39] my bra will disappear.

[49:41] And if you move it back, it's there again.

Stuart Wellington

[49:46] Yeah, that's what they want.

[49:47] They're like, I want that bra back.

[49:51] So we've had a lot of fun.

[49:54] Dan didn't tell me what the lenticular keychain that says Stuart on it does.

[49:59] So I guess that's going to be safe for the next mini.

Elliott Kalan

[50:03] You turn it one way, and it's Cariel's ways with a leg,

[50:06] and you turn it the other way, and it's Cariel's ways,

[50:08] and his leg is gone, and he's like, oops.

Stuart Wellington

[50:09] Mm-hmm.

[50:10] Yep.

[50:10] He's got his hands out, and he says, what?

Elliott Kalan

[50:17] He's wearing a bathing suit on the beach,

[50:19] and there's a bear trap that's pulling down the back of the bathing suit

[50:22] to show that he has a tan.

[50:24] And it's called Copper Saw.

Stuart Wellington

[50:26] There is a moment, I think it's in Saw 6,

[50:30] when the bear trap, the original bear trap comes back.

[50:36] That's the closest thing that series has to like,

[50:39] because he never used the same fucking trap twice

[50:42] except for this one bear trap.

[50:44] And it's kind of crazy, because it's like,

[50:47] like, you put all this work into making this fucking sick trap

[50:51] to kill people, and then you just do it once,

[50:53] and you're done?

[50:54] Like, why don't you use that thing a couple times?

Elliott Kalan

[50:57] That's the beauty of the experience,

[50:58] is that it's here, and then it's just a memory for select.

[51:00] He's like the Christo of torturers.

[51:02] It's just like an experience that he wants you to carry with you,

Stuart Wellington

[51:05] you know?

[51:05] Yeah, I guess.

[51:06] And they always involve like a cassette tape

[51:09] that says their specific name,

[51:11] so you can't use it for someone else, right?

[51:14] Yeah, it's a spaceman singing happy birthday to you,

Elliott Kalan

[51:17] and he says your name in the song.

Dan McCoy

[51:18] Yeah, he like flipped in the little tab, too,

[51:22] so you can't record over it.

[51:24] I mean, you could put some scotch tape over it

[51:25] if you wanted to, but that feels cheap.

Elliott Kalan

[51:27] Why would you want to at that point?

[51:29] What's so important that you've got to record it

[51:31] on that particular tape?

Stuart Wellington

[51:32] So this dovetails nicely into my final thoughts.

[51:37] I, you know, I, the Saw series

[51:41] is a series that I wasn't particularly excited about.

[51:45] I'd only seen the first,

[51:46] I'd seen the first three previously,

[51:48] and I...

[51:50] I like the series where you saw the first three

Elliott Kalan

[51:52] and you weren't sure about it yet.

Dan McCoy

[51:54] To be fair, I think the same thing happened

[51:56] to you with Transformers.

[51:58] Like, I like slogged my way through three of them,

[52:02] like, maybe this time.

Elliott Kalan

[52:04] Ooh, it's like Lucy with the football.

[52:06] Like, just each time Michael Bay is like,

[52:08] you're gonna like this one.

[52:10] Psych!

Stuart Wellington

[52:11] The, so, I, what I will say is,

[52:14] the series gets stranger and cheaper

[52:17] and more like a weird television show

[52:20] the longer it goes on.

[52:22] And so, I feel like I like the later movies more

[52:28] because they are dumber and weirder and cheaper.

[52:31] So I'm glad I watched the whole series.

[52:34] Would I recommend it to anyone?

[52:36] Under no circumstance,

[52:37] I don't think they're worth your time.

[52:40] Maybe, maybe Elliot, you should, you know,

[52:42] maybe while you're washing dishes

[52:44] or, you know, if you want to take some time away

[52:46] from the family,

[52:47] or maybe if you want to spend some time with the family,

[52:49] you can teach them all about, you know,

[52:51] problem solving and getting out of traps.

Elliott Kalan

[52:53] Yeah, morality, problem solving,

[52:55] where to buy hardware,

[52:56] how to use it only once.

[52:57] Yeah.

[52:58] Yeah.

[53:00] So, I think...

[53:02] I go, kids, it's time for our carry-always devil feature,

[53:05] the princess bride and saw.

[53:07] You're gonna love it.

Stuart Wellington

[53:09] So, what I will say is,

[53:12] I think I totally nailed it.

[53:14] We delivered a perfect mini every time.

[53:18] 100% kill rate.

[53:21] Yep.

[53:21] No scope.

[53:22] Did it again.

[53:24] So, for the Flophouse,

[53:26] I am Stuart Wellington saying,

[53:28] thank you to MaxFun,

[53:29] our network that puts this out.

[53:31] Thank you so much to Jordan Cowling,

[53:33] who helps make this somewhat listenable.

[53:36] Thank you to my two friends,

[53:38] Dan and Elliot,

[53:38] who want to spend this time with me, Stuart,

[53:41] and just hang out and chat and bullshit

[53:43] and like, you know,

[53:44] like, ask me about my day

[53:45] and I'm like,

[53:46] it wasn't that great, guys.

[53:47] And they're like,

[53:48] okay, we'll talk about Saw

[53:49] because that's what you told us

[53:50] we were talking about.

[53:51] I'm like, okay, let's do it.

[53:54] Yep.

[53:54] So...

[53:55] We were like, crack the whip.

[53:56] We were like,

[53:57] yeah, boo-hoo,

[53:58] cry me river,

[53:58] tiniest violin,

[53:59] get with the Saw.

[54:01] I, you know,

[54:02] I just,

[54:04] in summary,

[54:06] I've been Stuart Wellington.

[54:07] I've been Dan McCoy.

Elliott Kalan

[54:09] I've been Ellie Kalin.

[54:10] That's not a summary

[54:11] of anything you said before, really,

[54:13] but thank you, listeners.

S4

[54:22] MaximumFun.org

[54:23] Comedy and culture.

[54:25] Artist owned.

[54:26] Audience supported.

FH Mini 31 - Stu Sees Saws

Transcript

In this episode

Description