FH Mini 33 - Elliott Explains The Eternals

[0:00] Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Flophouse. My name is Elliot Kalin, and I'm going to be your

Elliott Kalan

[0:10] pilot tonight on a journey into interstellar space and into the depths of one of the most

[0:15] creative minds that maybe there ever was. Joining me on this special voyage are, as always,

[0:21] my co-pilots, their names being, fill in your names now, guys.

Dan McCoy

[0:25] Dan McCoy.

[0:27] Stuart Wellington.

Elliott Kalan

[0:28] Well, a harsh lampoon of Dan McCoy.

Dan McCoy

[0:32] I'm wondering about this voice that you're doing. Is this supposed to be a comforting pilot?

[0:37] Is that kind of the vibe you're going for?

[0:39] This is the way I talk now.

Elliott Kalan

[0:40] Like a Rod Serling? Sterling? Serling?

[0:44] Guys, I discovered true peace and happiness, and this is just how I talk now. It's called drugs,

[0:49] and it is really taking the edge off.

Dan McCoy

[0:52] I could have told you a long time ago. I didn't know you were interested.

Elliott Kalan

[0:55] No, guys, I was just trying to start off with not in my normal hyperactive manner, because

[1:01] I'm going to need to save that energy for this episode tonight. That's right, guys.

Stuart Wellington

[1:05] Real quick, Elliot, the drugs you took, can you check the package and make sure it's not

[1:08] like a brain-dead situation and it's accidentally like an Elliot stimulant?

[1:14] Well, it didn't come in the package.

[1:15] That's a worm that jacks into your brain.

Elliott Kalan

[1:17] No, that's brain damage.

[1:19] Oh, that's right.

Stuart Wellington

[1:19] But if it's a worm that jacks into your brain, that's pretty cool, too.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23] Yeah, that's pretty awesome. Anyway, this is a mini-episode. Normally, on the Flophouse,

[1:28] we watch a bad movie, then we talk about it. Sometimes the movie's not that bad, sometimes

[1:32] the movie's very bad. But tonight, we didn't watch a movie. No, no, it's a mini-episode,

[1:36] so it's our time to do whatever we want, and you're just strapped in. You've got to follow

[1:40] us like hostages in your ears. So you're ear hostages to our stuff tonight.

Dan McCoy

[1:46] I'm not sure about this new branding for the minis, but we can keep rolling.

Elliott Kalan

[1:51] Hey, so here's how the minis work now. It's the audio equivalent of putting a hood over

[1:55] your head and shoving you in a van. You're just with us, you know?

Stuart Wellington

[1:58] And you know, you could turn off your podcast player, but then the next time a t-shirt comes

[2:02] out referencing a popular bit that you might miss that was featured in this mini, you're

[2:08] going to be quite a fool.

Elliott Kalan

[2:09] You're going to be so mad when you don't know what that t-shirt means. It's going to wreck

[2:12] you. You're going to rue it to the end of your days. But don't worry, you're already listening.

[2:16] That's why you heard all this. So you're still with us. Tonight, I'm going to answer...

[2:20] Thank God.

[2:21] Tonight, I'm going to give Dan and Stuart a little explainer and answer all their questions

[2:25] about, that's right, M to the E, M to the E, M-M-M-M-M to the E, Marvel's Eternals.

[2:30] That's right, everybody. We're finally going to be explaining what the hell the Eternals

[2:35] are. The subject of the next, it's the tentpole of what, phase eight, phase nine of the Marvel

[2:42] Cinematic Universe? That's right.

Dan McCoy

[2:43] I don't know. When's it coming out, Elliot? Because, you know, Black Widow obviously delayed,

[2:49] but only coming out now.

[2:51] This coming, yeah, this weekend.

Elliott Kalan

[2:54] Eternals will be coming out November 5th in the United States, all over the world. I don't

[2:58] know when. So it's a big Thanksgiving time release. And when you hear about the movie, you're

[3:03] going to know why they're releasing it on Thanksgiving, a time when people don't really go out to see

[3:07] the movies very much. It could be a good movie. I don't know. But I'm going to bring you into

[3:12] my thesis that the Eternals are perhaps the least fan-loved characters in the history of Marvel

[3:19] Comics.

Stuart Wellington

[3:20] Wow. Should we give you a little foundation of what Dan and I know about Marvel's Eternals?

Elliott Kalan

[3:25] That's a great idea. I was just going to ask exactly that. What do you guys know about the

[3:27] Eternals? Again, these are the subjects of a huge movie that's coming out directed by an

[3:32] Academy Award winning director and starring big name stars. What do you know about the Eternals?

Dan McCoy

[3:37] I know that Kumail Nanjiani got jacked. He got so jacked. He did get jacked. He looks amazing.

[3:46] Is Angelina Jolie in the movie? She's also in the movie, yes. That's all I know. So I know a

[3:51] couple of casting things and nothing about the characters. So you know that Kumail Nanjiani,

Elliott Kalan

[3:55] of course, plays the famous character Kingo. Is that character known for being super jacked?

[4:01] No, he's actually known for being Japanese. So it's interesting that they cast Kumail Nanjiani.

[4:07] So Kumail's character is a movie star who is a member of the Eternals, much like in the comics,

[4:12] Kingo is. And Angelina Jolie is, of course, playing the famous character, Thena, who, Dan,

[4:17] you know, is the daughter of Zorus.

[4:19] Oh, of course, Zorus. What's he up to these days?

[4:22] So that's the extent of what you're familiar with the Eternals is two of the stars that are in the movie?

Dan McCoy

[4:28] Yeah, I don't even think I could remember any other cast off the fan.

[4:31] So what did you guys, did you see the trailer?

Stuart Wellington

[4:34] I definitely watched the trailer at least once, but I have another question. So I saw J.K. Simmons in a movie recently and he was super jacked.

[4:43] Yes.

[4:43] Was he getting super jacked because he's got to play J. Jonah Jameson again?

Elliott Kalan

[4:48] I think he was getting super jacked because him and Kumail, he and Kumail are gym buddies.

[4:52] And it was kind of like, you get jacked and I'll get jacked, rep for rep. We're going to do this together.

[4:56] Whenever one of us is flagging, the other one is going to buck up their spirits.

[4:59] And that's how they get it done.

Stuart Wellington

[5:00] Do not touch that fucking bar until the last possible minute. You got to let me do the full pump.

Elliott Kalan

[5:06] Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Just believe in me and I'll believe in you. That was their motto.

[5:11] So guys, let me tell you about the Eternals, okay? I'm not going to start with more about the cast.

[5:17] Although, huge, huge cast. It's the most diverse cast in a Marvel movie, which is interesting considering that the Eternals themselves

[5:25] are based in a sort of pseudo-Nazitific racist science, which we'll get into.

[5:32] So, let me just explain the introduction.

[5:34] So, the Eternals, just to break it down as simply as possible,

[5:37] they're a group of nearly immortal godlike beings created by even more godlike beings as an experiment in ancient times.

[5:44] And even though they're ancient and eternal and massively powerful,

[5:47] they tend to not show up when things happen

[5:51] because they are possibly the most boring characters ever created by Jack Kirby.

[5:55] And there has yet to be a successful revival of them.

[5:58] Let's talk about Jack Kirby for a second.

[5:59] You guys are familiar with Jack Kirby, right?

[6:00] Dan Stu, tell me what you know about Jacob Kurtzberg.

Dan McCoy

[6:03] Jack King Kirby, right?

Elliott Kalan

[6:05] Jack King Kirby, the king of comics. What do you know about him?

Dan McCoy

[6:08] Isn't he the one who got kind of super psychedelic later on?

[6:13] Or am I getting confused with Ditko again?

Elliott Kalan

[6:15] No, no. I mean, they both got a little...

[6:17] I mean, Ditko got super Randian.

[6:21] And Jack Kirby's work became more psychedelic.

[6:23] But it was more like Jack Kirby was finally letting out the psychedelia that had been in his mind since the 1930s.

[6:29] Right.

Dan McCoy

[6:30] And Kirby's the co-creator of many of the huge Marvel characters.

[6:36] Yes.

[6:37] Yeah, that's what I know about Jack Kirby.

Stuart Wellington

[6:38] He draws very distinctive hands and he does like energy clouds in the background that have like little spots in them.

[6:46] It's called Kirby Crackle.

[6:47] Yeah.

[6:47] Yep.

[6:48] He was obviously a huge influence on my first ever favorite comic book artist, Eric Larson.

[6:55] Yes, very much so.

Elliott Kalan

[6:56] Yeah.

[6:56] Well, let's say Jack Kirby is arguably the most creative mind in Marvel Comics history.

[7:01] And without his work with Stanley, you don't have the Marvel Universe and you don't have the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

[7:06] Just look at all the characters in the movies he created or co-created rather.

[7:10] Captain America, Hulk, Iron Man, Thor, Loki, Bucky.

[7:14] Not the version of Bucky that's in the movies, but the original version of Bucky.

[7:17] Black Panther, Nick Fury, Ant-Man.

[7:20] Not the version of Ant-Man that's in the movies, but the Michael Douglas character version of Ant-Man.

[7:24] Scarlet Witch, Wasp, Quicksilver, Agatha Harkness from the Scarlet Witch TV show.

[7:29] And that's not counting the X-Men, the Fantastic Four.

[7:31] Agatha all along, right?

Stuart Wellington

[7:32] What?

[7:33] Agatha all along, right?

Elliott Kalan

[7:34] It was Agatha all along, it turned out.

[7:36] And I feel like they didn't really play fair by then showing you scenes that implied that if you went back and watched, you'd see Agatha like winking at the camera.

[7:42] And that didn't really happen.

[7:44] Interesting take.

[7:46] Interesting take.

[7:48] Only because I heard people going like, oh, I didn't pick up the clues.

[7:51] And I was like, guys, I don't think there were any clues.

[7:53] It's true.

Stuart Wellington

[7:54] Your clue is that she is second build, like she's third build and doesn't seem to be doing much.

[8:01] Yeah, that's true.

Dan McCoy

[8:01] The clue is that she's Catherine Han and she's amazing.

[8:04] So you got to do something with her.

Elliott Kalan

[8:06] So let's just say Jack Kirby is comics ultimate ideas man.

[8:10] Let's go back to the year 1970.

[8:12] Okay, guys.

[8:13] Richard Nixon's in the White House.

[8:15] Everybody's doing the Lindy Hop.

[8:18] What else was going on in 1970?

[8:20] Star Wars was yet to happen.

[8:21] And Jurassic Park was even farther in the future.

[8:24] And Jack Kirby, he gets fed up with Marvel Comics.

[8:26] He's been there for a while.

[8:27] He goes over to DC Comics and he creates the fourth world New Gods characters.

[8:31] A sprawling, somewhat standalone cosmic epic.

[8:34] It's not totally standalone in that it comes out of the Jimmy Olsen comic, but somewhat standalone.

[8:40] That was almost made into an Ava DuVernay movie recently and then it fell apart.

[8:44] But you know what?

[8:45] Jack Kirby, he's not happy at DC either.

[8:47] So in the mid-70s, he comes back to Marvel and he tries another somewhat standalone cosmic epic called The Eternals.

[8:55] And I think it's fair to say I'm a huge fan of Jack Kirby.

[8:58] I'm a huge fan of his work in the 60s and in the early 70s and even some of the late 70s stuff.

[9:03] This was the time of what you would call late period Kirby when he was doing things like Devil Dinosaur,

[9:09] which was a series about a cave boy, a half-human, half-ape cave boy and a red Tyrannosaurus

[9:14] that encountered like – he would encounter like a computer that turned out to be God that created the Garden of Eden

[9:20] or there would be a whole issue where a giant with a Triceratops head as a mask would be just hurling trees at things.

[9:27] A lot of good stuff.

[9:29] This is kind of like somewhat around OMAC era Jack Kirby where for DC he was making a character who had a super huge mohawk

[9:36] and was the one-man army corner of the future.

[9:38] Eternals, not his most energized.

[9:40] This is a series that runs for 19 issues in one annual.

[9:42] Since then, there has never been an Eternal series that ran for more than 12 issues.

[9:46] I think we're going to figure out why when I tell you who the Eternals are.

[9:49] Okay, guys, buckle up.

[9:50] We've seen the historical.

[9:52] Are you ready to find out what Jack Kirby would do when he was not quite firing on all cylinders?

[9:56] Yes, please.

[9:57] Okay, so are you familiar with a little book called Chariot of the Gods?

Dan McCoy

[10:03] Is that the one that was like, oh, ancient Egyptians were aliens?

Elliott Kalan

[10:09] Yeah, well, yeah.

[10:10] Chariots of the Gods, I should say.

[10:11] It was this kind of 70s pseudoscience, let's call it trash, that said that ancient peoples were not smart enough to make pyramids

[10:17] because how could they be?

[10:18] They were not European white people.

[10:20] And so it must be that aliens visited them and taught them how to make pyramids,

[10:23] which is kind of crazy since like if you give a kid blocks, they'll figure out how to make a pyramid.

[10:28] This is not exactly an infinite monkeys, infinite typewriters scenario where like just the odds create it.

[10:33] Like pyramids are easy to create.

[10:35] But in the 70s, people thought pyramids were very difficult.

[10:37] That was the time when...

Stuart Wellington

[10:38] That's more exciting to imagine there's a stargate somewhere.

[10:42] Exactly.

[10:42] Where the Gwawled can make you build their ship.

[10:45] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[10:47] So...

[10:47] I mean, the concept of pyramids is easy to come up with.

[10:51] Let's not downplay the difficulty of the building of the pyramids.

Elliott Kalan

[10:57] That's true.

[10:57] But is there any other type of building where people were like, I don't know how they figured this out.

[11:02] It must be aliens.

[11:03] Like castles?

[11:04] People seem to figure out how to do that.

[11:06] Like towers?

[11:07] Yeah, people can do that.

[11:08] So what is it about pyramids that's suddenly so difficult that it can only be because an alien came down?

[11:13] They're so pointy, Elliot.

[11:14] The thing is the South American pyramids are not pointy, Dan.

[11:17] They're quite blunt at the top.

[11:20] Anyway, what I'm saying is...

[11:22] The blunt point.

[11:23] What I'm saying is Jack Kirby, very much not racist.

[11:26] Perhaps one of the least racist people ever to work in mainstream comic books in the 1960s.

[11:31] And yet The Eternals is kind of baked in with some very racist ideas, not the least of which is this chariots of the gods stuff.

[11:38] Where it's the idea of ancient aliens coming down and teaching the Aztecs how to build pyramids and things like that.

[11:44] Okay.

[11:45] So here's the story of The Eternals.

[11:47] Okay.

[11:47] But here's the thing about Jack Kirby.

[11:49] He would kind of take whatever was going on around him and throw it in a big stew pot and stir it up and be like, here's your comics.

[11:55] And that's why his stuff is amazing.

[11:57] Because it was just kind of like any idea that fell into his ears, he would just throw into this big idea stew pot.

[12:02] So in prehistoric times...

Stuart Wellington

[12:03] Elliot, this has been so much buildup in this episode already.

[12:06] I feel like I'm still waiting to get to the Mortal Kombat tournament.

Elliott Kalan

[12:09] Okay.

[12:10] Well, don't...

[12:10] I'm sorry.

[12:11] We're getting...

[12:12] Okay.

[12:12] So here's the story of The Eternals.

[12:14] It's ancient times.

[12:15] Prehistoric even.

[12:16] There's no people.

[12:18] There's just hominids.

[12:19] Just kind of cave ape people.

[12:21] The Earth is visited by ancient beings called the Celestials.

[12:25] Mysterious aliens in 60-foot armor that conceals their...

[12:29] Well, they're 60-foot aliens.

[12:30] That's why the armor is so tall.

[12:31] That conceals their entire bodies and it looks amazing.

[12:35] Like, the Celestials characters look gorgeous and they're the reason anyone brings back The Eternals.

[12:39] Because the Celestials, they're these super tall, mysterious aliens.

[12:42] They don't talk.

[12:44] All their heads look like coffee pots or like trash cans.

[12:47] Like, they have amazing helmets and huge hands that they use to give the thumbs down all the time.

[12:53] So it's...

[12:53] If you can imagine godlike alien beings that can only communicate using thumbs up or thumbs down, that's the Celestials.

Dan McCoy

[13:00] That was the original binary, Elliot.

Elliott Kalan

[13:04] Yeah.

[13:04] And they do not have a thumb in the middle.

[13:06] That is, Celestials are hot and cold.

[13:08] And I think the only reason The Eternals were ever folded into the Marvel Universe eventually is because the Celestials look so cool.

[13:14] So, they're great.

[13:15] They are objectively the best thing about this story.

[13:17] So, they come to the Earth in waves known as hosts.

[13:19] The first host was about a million years ago.

[13:21] And they take furry cavemen and experiment on them to create two races.

[13:25] The Eternals, who are good and beautiful because, according to the comics, they have stable genetics.

[13:32] And the Deviants, who have unstable genetics.

[13:35] And every generation, they mutate and look different and are not white and blonde.

[13:40] And so, they're ugly demons who are always trying to conquer the Earth.

[13:42] So, basically, this is – and again, this is Jack Kirby who like – if you go on Twitter, everyone's like, Jack Kirby.

[13:47] He would say to punch a fascist in the face.

[13:48] Him being some real like blood purity, you know, superior race type stuff, which is not great.

[13:53] Again, not to say he's racist.

[13:55] It's just ideas falling into the Jack Kirby stew pot.

[13:57] The Jack Kirby stew pot, again, what I would recommend if you go to the Marvel restaurant chain that I'm sure will exist at some point.

Dan McCoy

[14:04] Yeah.

[14:05] So, sorry.

[14:07] Setting aside the racial implications for just a moment.

[14:09] Yes.

[14:09] I didn't mean to cut off your stew pot rant if there was better stuff to go.

[14:12] I was going to come up with some other dishes at this Marvel restaurant.

[14:14] Please do.

[14:15] But continue.

[14:15] What were you going to say?

[14:16] Oh, okay.

[14:17] Well, maybe we can think about it.

[14:18] We can circle back.

[14:20] Setting aside the –

Elliott Kalan

[14:21] Well, I know there's going to be something called Ditko-hitas, which are like fajitas that are Steve Ditko-influenced.

[14:27] So, like, when you eat them, your hands have to be in weird poses.

[14:29] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[14:29] Mm-hmm.

[14:30] Okay.

[14:31] Uh-huh.

[14:34] So, my question is setting aside –

[14:36] I'm not done yet, but what's your question?

[14:37] Okay.

[14:37] Whoa.

[14:38] The horrible, like, sort of racial implications.

[14:41] Like, what is – why would these beings be like, okay, we've got to create some good creatures and then some evil creatures?

[14:52] Like, are they – you know, is this like a – are they playing a board game?

Elliott Kalan

[14:58] They would say – the comics, I think, are always like, oh, well, the Celestials experiment for mysterious purposes.

[15:04] So mysterious we can never know them.

[15:07] But then it turns out – but then the comics come up with different explanations.

[15:11] But then they always go back to, like, oh, they're so mysterious.

[15:13] We could never even comprehend it for their own mysterious silent needs.

[15:17] Oh, these godlike beings.

[15:19] Mm-hmm.

[15:19] Yeah.

[15:19] And it's a little bit like Galactus where he starts off and he's this amazing godlike being and the more they use him, the more he just becomes, like, the biggest dude in the neighborhood.

[15:28] Mm-hmm.

[15:28] And they're bumping into him all the time and then killing him off and then he comes back and things like that.

[15:32] Anyway, so to answer your question, there's no real set reason.

[15:35] But a lot of times it's just to, like – the Eternals are just supposed to be there around to, like, protect Celestials.

[15:40] In the Earth X series, it's posited that there's a Celestial seed or egg in the center of the Earth and that superheroes were created to defend this from aliens who want to – from Galactus who want to eat it or something.

[15:52] Anyway, continue.

Dan McCoy

[15:54] Buritoni Stark.

[15:55] How about that?

[15:56] No, because – no, no.

Elliott Kalan

[15:58] The dishes are based on the – are the creators, not on the characters.

[16:02] Oh, okay.

Elliott Kalan

[16:02] Sorry, sorry.

[16:03] Sorry.

[16:03] Well, now I've got to go back to the drawing board.

[16:05] Your host is dressed like Stan Lee.

[16:07] Mm-hmm.

[16:08] Anyway, and you get the Stan Lee soup.

[16:10] That's a leek soup.

[16:11] Wow, okay.

[16:11] Like a classic Welsh leek soup, but it comes with a mustache and sunglasses on it.

[16:15] That's what makes it about Stan Lee.

[16:18] There's also, like, the John –

[16:20] That comes from the stall called Stew Believers.

[16:24] Thank you.

[16:25] There's the John Buse scrambled eggs.

[16:27] That's the John Busema scrambled eggs.

[16:28] That's for their breakfast.

[16:29] Yeah.

[16:30] Yeah, sure, and so forth.

[16:32] There's the – well, I'll think of some more later.

[16:35] You guys feel free to think of some too.

[16:37] So, guys, the first host came and it turned people into Eternals and Deviants.

[16:43] Meanwhile, regular old human beings they're evolving to.

[16:45] 20,000 years ago, the Celestials come back.

[16:48] They were busy for a while.

[16:49] They finally came back to check on the experiment.

[16:51] The second host arrives.

[16:52] They find that the Deviants, they just took over the whole world.

[16:55] While the Eternals were just sitting up on a mountain somewhere, the Deviants took over the whole world.

[17:00] The Celestials comes down and the Deviants are like, well, we're the best now.

[17:03] The Celestials respond by destroying the Deviants' whole civilization.

[17:05] They sink their continent of Lemuria under the seas.

[17:08] Now they live underground.

[17:11] And later on there's this stuff added about where like they worship this one Celestial that went bad and was living under the earth and is sleeping and all sorts of stuff.

[17:18] Now you may be asking yourself, okay, didn't Marvel Comics already have the Inhumans, which were a race of mysterious, super-powered people that live in the mountains and were created when the Kree came to earth and experimented on cavemen?

[17:31] Yes.

[17:31] I was going to say that.

[17:32] You're right.

[17:32] It's the same thing.

[17:33] It's the exact same thing.

[17:34] And the same guy created both of them.

[17:37] Jack Herbie, he's serving kind of like leftover stew at this point.

Stuart Wellington

[17:41] But do any of the Eternals have cool powers like Black Bolt?

Elliott Kalan

[17:46] Let's get into that, shall we?

[17:47] Black Bolt, of course, as everyone knows, is the Inhuman who cannot speak because his voice is so powerful that even a whisper can knock down mountains.

[17:54] The Inhumans, they all have their own powers.

[17:56] Every podcaster's fantasy.

[17:59] When really it's just Joe Rogan that can do that.

[18:01] Sure.

[18:02] The Inhumans, Medusa's got a crazy hair that can grab things.

[18:05] Triton is a fish man.

[18:09] Karnak can see the weaknesses in things and hit them with karate chops so that they fall down.

[18:14] There's Gorgon who's got hoof feet that are really strong and he stamps on stuff.

[18:17] They've all got great powers.

[18:18] They're amazing.

Stuart Wellington

[18:18] Is Lockjaw one of the Inhumans?

Elliott Kalan

[18:20] Lockjaw is a dog that can teleport because he has a tuning fork on his forehead and he's a huge dog.

[18:25] Let's take a minute away from the Eternals.

[18:27] Talk about Lockjaw.

[18:28] Lockjaw is one of the most amazing Marvel characters and it's too bad that – and I think one of the reasons Marvel is doing the Eternals is because they screwed up the Inhumans so badly with their TV show.

[18:36] Lockjaw is apparently – it is one of those things that really tests the believability of a Marvel concept because he's an enormous dog.

[18:43] He's a dog the size of a small elephant and he's constantly drooling and he can teleport anywhere.

[18:48] You've got to look up Lockjaw.

[18:49] He's amazing.

[18:50] Look up Lockjaw.

[18:50] He's great.

[18:51] And he has a little tuning fork on his head that matches his master Black Bolt's tuning fork on his head.

[18:56] And it's just like – Jack Kirby was just like, yeah, they've got a super-powered dog.

[18:59] What of it?

[18:59] Oh, look at that dog.

[19:01] Yeah, he's got a big tongue.

[19:02] He looks like a dog with a mustache.

[19:04] Like he's amazing.

[19:05] He's a great character.

[19:07] There's a reason he has had his own series.

[19:09] At this point, I think Lockjaw might have starred in as many comics as the Eternals have starred in.

[19:13] So give Lockjaw a movie.

[19:14] Anyway, let's talk about the Eternals characters.

[19:16] They've been living up at the Polarized Caps every now and then.

[19:19] They live forever pretty much.

[19:21] Every now and then they appear before normal humans and become the basis for all of our myths.

[19:26] Oh, boy.

[19:27] That's right.

[19:28] Their names kind of sound like – it's that old saw, that old jigsaw.

[19:32] So you've got guys like Icarus.

[19:35] He's super strong.

[19:36] He can fly.

[19:37] He probably can shoot lasers and things like that.

[19:39] And obviously – and he's Icarus.

[19:42] So that's where that comes from.

[19:43] Then there's Cersei.

[19:45] She's like the seductive party girl of the Eternals.

[19:47] And she has the power to like turn things into other things.

[19:50] So remember when Cersei in the Odyssey turned all those guys into pigs?

[19:53] Guess what?

[19:54] Cersei in the comics does that too.

[19:56] Oh, boy.

[19:58] There's Makari who can run real fast and he's obsessed with running really fast.

[20:02] And he was the inspiration for Mercury.

[20:04] There's Ajak who's super strong.

[20:06] That leads to Ajax.

[20:07] How's Makari spelled?

[20:09] It's spelled M-A-K-K-A-R-I.

Stuart Wellington

[20:12] Okay.

[20:12] So pretty similar to Gazkal Magaruk Thraka's Bannergrat Makari who's insanely lucky.

[20:19] But he's a pretty cool dude in and of itself.

[20:21] That's Warhammer 40,000 stuff.

Elliott Kalan

[20:23] Okay.

[20:23] Because I was going to say, Stuart, I'm talking about the Eternals.

[20:25] And I couldn't understand half of what that last sentence was.

[20:27] So you have bested me, sir.

Dan McCoy

[20:31] Hey, sorry.

[20:32] I zoned out a little bit earlier.

Stuart Wellington

[20:34] So Gazkal is an orc war boss of the Goth clan.

[20:38] And he is known for laying waste to the Imperial World Armageddon.

[20:43] Sounds like a real deviant.

[20:44] Until he faced off with Commissar Yarek.

[20:46] He cut off Yarek's arm.

[20:47] But that didn't stop Yarek.

[20:48] No, no, no.

[20:49] He's too much of a badass.

[20:50] So he then uses laser eye to hurt Gazkal.

[20:53] Do you have...

[20:53] We'll talk about later.

[20:55] We'll talk about later.

[20:56] Anyway, the important thing is...

Dan McCoy

[20:57] Yeah, Dan?

[20:58] The actual question, though, was Chris Claremontary Jack Cheese.

[21:04] Did anyone say that?

Elliott Kalan

[21:05] Chris Claremontary Jack Cheese?

[21:07] I mean, that's not a dish.

[21:09] I mean, that could be something you...

[21:10] An ingredient, sure.

[21:11] An ingredient, sure.

[21:12] I mean, if you're going to have kind of an X-Men mutant cheese plate, that would be great

[21:16] to have on there.

[21:17] Yeah, sure.

[21:18] Yeah, I could see that.

[21:20] And like, yeah.

[21:21] What else?

[21:22] What other cheeses sound like?

[21:24] X-Men character's name.

[21:25] Did you say Swiss Claremont Cheese?

[21:28] Oh, Swiss Claremont is even better than Chris Claremontary Jack.

[21:31] There's also Jim Brie.

[21:33] You'd go with that, of course, yeah.

[21:35] So anyway, so if anyone else, fans, feel free to get on the horn.

[21:40] Get on the horn.

Dan McCoy

[21:42] Get on the little shortwave radio.

Elliott Kalan

[21:45] Tell us some more Marvel restaurant food.

[21:47] So anyway, guys, let's talk.

[21:48] So let's just, we're getting to the end of the background on this.

[21:52] Okay.

[21:52] So there's all these stories about like, in the original Eternal story, they're always

[21:55] like, huh, yes, that's what I told Plato when I met up with him.

[21:59] Or they're like, oh, the Aztec gods, they turn out to be these Eternals.

[22:02] Or hey, when I went to Egypt and I taught them about hieroglyphics as a joke.

[22:05] The leader of the Eternals, it's Zerus.

[22:08] And he's the leader mainly because he figured out how the Eternals can combine themselves

[22:11] into the Unimind, a giant cosmic brain with superpowers.

[22:15] Now, again, if this reminds you of how the Forever People, a previous Jack Kirby series,

[22:20] can combine to become Infinity Man, very similar.

[22:23] And anyway.

Dan McCoy

[22:26] Who becomes the January Man?

[22:27] That's Kevin Kline, right?

[22:30] Spoiler alert.

[22:32] Wait, actually, the January Man, I guess, is the killer in that.

[22:35] Yeah.

[22:35] So it's not Kevin Kline.

Stuart Wellington

[22:36] Wait, Kevin Kline isn't the killer, though.

[22:38] Because if he was, you would have just spoiled that fucking thing.

Dan McCoy

[22:41] Yeah.

[22:41] No, no.

[22:41] I can't even remember who the January Man is.

[22:45] And I watched that like this year.

Stuart Wellington

[22:47] It's probably, I don't know, like Clancy Brown or.

[22:50] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[22:51] Probably, yeah, or Chow Yun-Fat, some killer.

[22:54] Yeah.

[22:56] I'm always, that's a movie that I see it on Amazon Prime.

[22:59] And I'm like, okay, I'll watch this.

[23:01] Wait, am I really about to watch the January Man?

[23:03] So I've never seen it because I can't quite pull the trigger on it.

Dan McCoy

[23:06] You know, I was like, oh, you know, I love Kevin Kline.

[23:10] I love him in his sort of like shaggy semi-comic mode.

[23:14] And, you know, it's got a great cast otherwise.

[23:18] Susan Strand, Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio, Harvey Keitel, Danie Aiello, Rod Steiger.

[23:24] Are you reading the IMDb profile right now?

[23:26] I am reading it.

[23:26] Alan Rickman.

[23:27] Are you reading the back of the novelization that's on here?

Elliott Kalan

[23:29] He's reading the back of the box of January Man O's cereal.

Dan McCoy

[23:33] John Patrick Shanley screenplay.

[23:36] Oh, wow.

Elliott Kalan

[23:36] Author, writer and director of your favorite movie.

[23:39] My favorite movie.

[23:39] When the whistle blows.

[23:41] What was it?

Dan McCoy

[23:42] Yeah, when the Blarney falls off the shamrock.

Elliott Kalan

[23:47] It's called doing the shamrock shake.

Stuart Wellington

[23:50] So is the January Man the sequel to the Weather Man?

Elliott Kalan

[23:56] No, no, no.

[23:57] January Man is a guy who's bitten by a radioactive January.

[24:00] January Jones, that is.

[24:01] And now he has all the powers of January Jones, which is to be really, really good in the three

[24:05] burials of Milky Anastastrata and not so much in the other things that she's in.

[24:09] Yeah.

[24:09] But, you know, I guess she just needs a solid director like Tommy Lee Jones pointing her

[24:13] in the right direction.

[24:14] Okay.

[24:14] So, Zorus, he creates the inner mind.

[24:18] That's your background.

[24:19] The original Eternal story is the story about the fourth host, uh-oh, led by Arashem the

[24:24] Judge.

[24:25] They are coming to Earth to see if Earth is worthy of not being destroyed, if the experiment

[24:30] went.

[24:30] And Icarus, having taken the name Ike Harris, uh, is in love with an archaeologist's daughter.

[24:35] And he spends a lot of the series hanging out with this archaeologist and his daughter

[24:39] and being like, hey, this stuff that you thought was just ancient civilizations, it's gods and

[24:42] things.

[24:43] Anyway, I'm gonna explain it to you now.

[24:44] That's some, like, angel heart level shit right there, buddy.

[24:46] Mm-hmm.

[24:47] Mm-hmm.

[24:47] How could you crack that code?

[24:49] Meanwhile, the other Eternals just kind of wander around using their real names and hanging

[24:52] and just hanging out.

[24:53] Like, Cersei just calls herself Cersei and wears, like, a green bathing suit everywhere she

[24:56] goes.

[24:56] Mm-hmm.

[24:57] Uh, they're always fighting the Deviants, led by, I think his name is King Toad.

[25:00] And, uh, the warlord Crowe.

Stuart Wellington

[25:01] Already, already very interested in King Toad.

Dan McCoy

[25:04] Yeah, King Toad is, my ears perk right up.

Elliott Kalan

[25:07] He's like a big, fat frog's head with little arms and legs.

[25:10] I don't know how he became King of the Deviants.

[25:12] Yeah, he's very Googled.

[25:14] And I think it's spelled T-O-D-E.

[25:15] Um, so, uh, to give you a taste of what the original Eternals comics are like, I put together

[25:20] two passages that I think get across the clash of styles that, uh, that Jack Kirby is kind

[25:25] of struggling with here.

[25:27] This is a line from issue number four, from a narrative caption.

[25:30] Arishem, leader of the fourth host, stands like a mountain above the Inca ruins.

[25:35] His face is hidden, but his eyes see everything that lives in this world.

[25:38] They are the eyes of a judge, even as his hands are those of a destroyer.

[25:41] When mankind discovers Arishem, it will find itself against overwhelming, total power, with

[25:46] two exclamation points at the end.

[25:48] And now here's, here's a line from issue five.

[25:50] Cersei is calling to Makkari through her communicator device, and she says, mirror, mirror on the wall,

[25:55] who's the most juvenile of all?

[25:56] And Makkari says, that's funky corn, Cersei.

[26:00] So, that's, that's-

[26:02] Funky?

Dan McCoy

[26:03] Sorry, that's funky what?

[26:05] That's funky corn, Cersei.

[26:06] Oh, that is funky corn.

Elliott Kalan

[26:08] So, as you can tell, the Eternals have really kept up with the modern slang, and they're

[26:11] really doing it right.

[26:12] Now, none of these characters have that much personality.

[26:16] The only Eternals that really have a lot of personality are two Deviants, one called the

[26:20] Reject, who's called that because he is handsome, and so the Deviants don't like him.

[26:23] And he's angry at the world because he just wants to be a Deviant, and he hates that he's

[26:27] so handsome.

[26:28] And this guy, Karkas, K-A-R-K-A-S, Daniel, you should look him up.

[26:31] He's a big red dude who wears metal pants, and has a huge head, and like Tyrannosaurus Rex

[26:36] hands, and he's actually very nice, even though he's a Deviant, and he becomes friends with

[26:40] the Eternals.

[26:41] They're the best characters.

[26:42] Karkas better be in the movie.

[26:44] He's a crazy design.

[26:46] And there's also a bad Eternal name, like Druig, who's basically what you would expect

[26:50] from a bad guy named Druig.

[26:51] So, guys, I just told you all about the Eternals.

[26:54] Who's your favorite Eternal?

Dan McCoy

[26:55] Oh my god, sorry, I just saw Karkas.

Elliott Kalan

[26:58] So Dan, paint a word picture for the listener.

[27:00] What's Karkas like?

Dan McCoy

[27:01] Karkas is kind of like, if there was like a potato, like a red potato.

Elliott Kalan

[27:08] Okay, like a russet potato, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[27:10] And that potato had kind of like a little, sort of like, I don't know, like a great ape,

[27:17] like a gorilla face.

[27:21] And then their little claws.

[27:23] It's a, it's a, it's a, I mean, it looks, he looks small because he's stubby.

[27:30] I see him fighting.

Elliott Kalan

[27:31] Yes, in the, in the picture, he looks, in the pictures when there's no scale, he always

[27:35] looks like a little baby.

Dan McCoy

[27:36] But he's actually very tall.

[27:37] He's like 10 feet tall.

[27:39] Big, I see from other pictures.

[27:40] But he also like, and the one I'm looking at right now, he's like, got like, basically

[27:45] his legs look like they've got Colossus armor.

Elliott Kalan

[27:47] Yes, he wears, he wears kind of blue underpants with, with steel leggings underneath.

[27:52] Yeah.

[27:53] Yeah, I like this guy.

[27:54] Oh man, he's really cool.

[27:55] Yeah, I like this guy.

[27:56] Yeah, he looks a little bit like if you took a professional wrestler and you pulled all

[28:00] his skin off.

[28:01] Yeah.

[28:01] And then you gave him metal pants and really sharp teeth.

[28:03] Like, that's Karkas.

[28:04] And so he's, he's great.

[28:06] He's my favorite Eternals character by far and he's not in it that much.

[28:10] So he's, he's like, I would say Lockjaw is to the Inhumans as Karkas is the Eternals.

[28:15] Oh yeah.

[28:15] You see him and you're just like, what a cool, cute dude.

[28:17] Like, I just want to see more about this character and know more about them.

[28:21] So other than that, who's, who's your favorite Eternal?

[28:24] I've, I've talked to you about them.

[28:25] Who's your favorite one?

[28:26] Is it Icarus who's kind of like He-Man without the personality?

[28:29] Is it Cersei who's kind of like a, a magical party girl?

[28:33] There's Sprite who's just kind of always a kid but is mad about it.

[28:36] They're like an, like a mean, mad, mean little kid.

[28:38] Sure.

[28:39] Again, there's Makari who's obsessed with speed.

[28:41] It's all he wants to do is run.

[28:42] He's just born to run.

[28:44] There's Athena.

[28:45] Again, she's Zorus's, Zorus's daughter and she's kind of like, becomes the leader of the

[28:50] Eternals but she kind of cracks under the pressure at one point.

[28:52] There's Zorus who again doesn't have much personality beyond just being like a cut rate Odin.

[28:57] The leader, yeah.

[28:57] So who do you love?

[28:58] Who's the, who's the Eternals that really sticks out to you?

Dan McCoy

[29:01] Well, I liked the description of Cersei.

Stuart Wellington

[29:05] And she changes things into other things.

[29:07] I'm into that.

Dan McCoy

[29:09] I don't like her design and some of the, like, I guess these must be newer comics I don't

[29:16] care for.

[29:16] The original Kirby design I like, okay.

[29:19] But.

Stuart Wellington

[29:20] Well, anyway.

Dan McCoy

[29:21] What don't you like about the design?

[29:22] Is it the.

[29:23] Well, they make, they, like, the more recent comics are, like, very much like, uh.

[29:28] She's carrying two, uh, Uzis.

[29:30] I'm trying to.

Elliott Kalan

[29:32] No.

[29:33] It's.

[29:33] Dan doesn't like it.

[29:33] She's always on her phone.

Dan McCoy

[29:35] No, they just sexify it a lot.

[29:36] Like.

[29:37] Oh.

[29:37] Like they, you know, did for a period of time.

[29:41] Uh.

Elliott Kalan

[29:41] I mean, she was always kind of wearing, like, a sex.

[29:43] She was always.

[29:43] Her costume was just basically like a green low-cut bathing suit.

[29:46] You know.

[29:47] So is she like.

[29:47] Is she like the Enchantress?

[29:49] She is a little bit like the Enchantress.

[29:52] Yes.

[29:52] But she's like a chaotic good Enchantress.

[29:54] Whereas Enchantress is chaotic evil.

[29:57] Yeah.

[29:58] So, guys.

[30:00] Uh.

[30:00] Well.

[30:00] I guess.

[30:01] I guess I'll go.

Stuart Wellington

[30:01] I guess I'll go Icarus.

[30:03] Because I appreciate his on the nose, uh.

[30:06] Nate.

[30:07] Uh.

[30:07] You know.

[30:08] Code name.

[30:09] Icarus.

[30:09] I appreciate his ambition.

[30:11] Yeah.

[30:12] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[30:14] Uh.

[30:14] And so as you've seen, the Eternals are, like, always hiding out.

[30:16] And not really getting involved in stuff.

[30:18] And we'll talk about, then.

[30:19] How do these eternal, immortal gods that don't like getting involved in things and do not

[30:24] care about people that much, how do they fit into the Marvel Universe?

[30:27] But before we get to that, Dan, I believe we have a word from our own celestial, Squarespace.

Dan McCoy

[30:33] Yes.

[30:35] Thank you, Elliot.

[30:36] In addition to the kind support from listeners like you, this episode is sponsored in part

[30:44] by Squarespace.

[30:47] With Squarespace, you can create a beautiful website.

[30:51] Turn your cool idea into a site on the internet for all to see and use.

[30:56] You can blog or publish content.

[30:59] Sell products and services of all kinds and much, much more.

[31:03] And Squarespace does this by giving you beautiful, customizable templates created by world-class

[31:09] designers.

[31:09] With everything optimized for mobile right out of the box.

[31:14] A new way to buy domains and choose from over 200 extensions.

[31:18] Free and secure hosting.

[31:21] What a great deal.

[31:23] Head to squarespace.com slash flop for a free trial.

[31:29] And when you're ready to launch, use the offer code FLOP, that's F-L-O-P, to save 10% off

[31:36] your first purchase of a website or domain.

Elliott Kalan

[31:39] Now, Dan, I had an idea for a website and I was wondering if Squarespace might be able

[31:43] to help me with it.

Dan McCoy

[31:43] Let's get it.

[31:44] Let's put it on the table.

[31:46] We'll poke at it and see if it works.

Elliott Kalan

[31:47] Okay, so this is a website.

[31:49] It's called www.whataretheeternalsagain.com.

[31:52] And it's a website just for me where I would go and read it and remind myself because I've

[31:56] read these comics that Jack Kirby wrote at least two times all the way through.

[32:00] And I had to do so much research to remember who these characters were before I talked to

[32:05] you guys, even with the minimal information I've been able to give you.

[32:08] Because for some reason, it's like, I remember reading about a science fiction book once where

[32:13] a guy's face was so forgettable that he had to wear a crazy hat in order to stick

[32:17] in people's memories or else they would just forget about him.

[32:19] And that's kind of what the Eternals are like to me.

[32:21] Yeah, that's a Black Mirror episode.

Stuart Wellington

[32:22] If we talk to your wife, Danielle, is she going to say that you spent the last day or

[32:27] two stressing out and being like, oh, I don't want to embarrass myself in front of my friends?

Elliott Kalan

[32:32] Yeah, and even more so, I don't want to embarrass myself in front of Jack Kirby's ghost,

[32:35] who has been like, hey, you're talking about the Eternals, huh?

[32:39] Well, let me tell you, those are some amazing tales.

[32:42] Definitely got a cigar.

[32:43] They've been coming to oif.

[32:46] Yeah, a big cigar in his mouth.

[32:47] Ancient gods have been coming to oif.

[32:49] An influence in all of our ancient civilizations.

[32:51] They invented the pyramids.

[32:53] They invented all these things.

[32:54] Anyway, so I got, wait, I've had 17 more ideas since we started talking.

[32:58] I don't want to talk about the Eternals anymore.

[32:59] I want to talk about something else.

[33:01] And so Jack Kirby's ghost is constantly just telling me new ideas.

[33:03] And some of them are amazing, but many of them don't make any sense.

[33:06] So this website would be to help me remember the Eternals so Jack Kirby's ghost doesn't get mad at me.

[33:10] Dan, Squarespace will be able to help me with that, right?

Dan McCoy

[33:13] Sure.

[33:13] Now this website of yours, is that just going to redirect back to this episode?

[33:17] It will be.

[33:18] Just for me, though.

[33:18] Yeah, yeah.

[33:19] Yeah, okay.

Elliott Kalan

[33:20] So guys, let's get back to what we were talking about.

[33:22] How do the Eternals fit into the Marvel Universe?

[33:24] Well, they don't really.

[33:26] They were never supposed to.

[33:27] They were intended to be their own separate thing.

[33:30] At one point, they were like, Jack, we need you to have the Eternals fight the Hulk or something.

[33:35] So he has Icarus fight a robot of the Hulk that somebody makes because he does not want them existing in the same real world as the Hulk.

[33:41] By the real world, I mean the Marvel Universe where superheroes stop being polite and start getting real.

[33:46] Eventually, though, all this backstory got rolled into the Marvel Universe proper.

[33:51] Cersei joined the Avengers for a while in the early 90s.

[33:55] And she was always trying to seduce Captain America, and he was getting very flustered.

[33:59] They revealed that Zorus, the father of all the – or the leader of the Eternals, was brothers with Alars, who was Thanos' dad.

[34:09] He would go on to become mentor of the Titans.

[34:11] So they're like – they mush these things together.

[34:15] And lately, Celestials, which used to be these enigmatic like kind of once in a million years robot alien giants, have just been popping up in the Marvel Universe like crazy.

[34:25] Just like you can't throw a dead cat without hitting a Celestial.

[34:29] And it's like why are you throwing dead cats around the Marvel Universe?

[34:31] It's because you're a new villain called Cat Throw.

[34:33] That's wild.

[34:33] Why would you do that?

[34:34] It's terrible.

[34:35] Well, you're a new villain.

[34:36] Your only power is that you're unerring aim with dead cats.

[34:39] Like Gambit is with playing cards.

[34:40] You are with dead cats.

[34:41] It's not a great character.

[34:43] But look, they're running low on ideas in the House of Ideas.

[34:46] So Daredevil goes out at night and he gets hit with a dead cat.

[34:48] And it doesn't hurt him necessarily, but it weirds him out.

[34:51] He just grows it bad.

[34:51] Do not like this.

[34:52] Yeah.

[34:54] No, thanks.

[34:55] So that's Cat – anyways, that's Cat Thrower.

[34:57] They're doing a 14-part crossover about him this summer.

[35:00] Which somehow he's created – he's connected to the creation of the universe.

[35:03] So my question is –

Stuart Wellington

[35:04] You finally invented a supervillain I like less than Carnage.

Elliott Kalan

[35:09] So what don't you like about Carnage on the fact that he's just a serial killer venom?

Stuart Wellington

[35:13] Yeah, that's why.

[35:14] I don't like serial killer venom.

Elliott Kalan

[35:16] I mean, what about the fact that his costume is super swirly?

[35:19] Isn't that nice?

[35:20] No.

[35:20] Isn't that nice?

[35:23] Haven't you looked at a costume before of a superhero and been like, where are the swirls?

[35:26] I want more swirls.

Stuart Wellington

[35:28] I think it's just because –

[35:29] I don't like swirls.

[35:29] I just think it's the like – it's like they took venom and then they just poured a bunch of Mountain Dew on him.

[35:35] You know, like I don't – it's okay.

Elliott Kalan

[35:37] That's his origin.

[35:38] That's in canon in the comics.

[35:40] That's what happened.

[35:40] Yeah.

[35:40] That's how he got so extreme.

[35:43] They poured Mountain Dew on him and his symbiote costume split into one that was more extreme.

[35:47] Yeah, of course.

[35:47] Yeah, that makes sense.

[35:48] Because of all the dew.

[35:50] Anyway, how are they going to make these characters into a movie?

[35:53] There's – this is a double-edged sword.

[35:56] The Eternals, there's lots of potential there because nobody cares about these characters.

[36:01] So you can basically do anything with them.

[36:03] The movie already, just with the stuff they've announced, is very different in terms of many of the characters in the comics.

[36:09] And has there been a fan backlash?

[36:11] Guys, you're keyed into the nerd internet.

[36:14] Has there been a fan backlash because Ajak is a woman in the movie and not a man like in the comics?

[36:18] Has there been a backlash?

[36:20] No, because no one cares.

[36:21] No one knew.

Dan McCoy

[36:22] Yeah.

[36:23] There was a backlash where people were mad at Kumail for being jacked.

[36:29] I remember they were mad at him for being buff.

[36:33] First they were happy.

[36:34] Then they got mad about it.

[36:36] And then I haven't heard anything recently about where we're standing on that issue.

Elliott Kalan

[36:40] Whereas, if I remember, there were people who got mad because in Thor, Heimdall was black, was played by a black actor, which is a ridiculous thing to be mad about.

[36:49] It's a ridiculous thing to be mad about.

[36:50] And it's not even like these are people who are like, hmm, I've always been a Heimdall fan and I'm just mad it's not my visual imagination of what Heimdall has always been.

[36:58] Because no one cares about Heimdall.

[36:59] The same way that when Agatha Harkness was revealed as a villain in the WandaVision series, spoiler alert, nobody cared.

[37:05] Because nobody is an Agatha Harkness fan.

[37:06] Nobody was like, but she is a hero in the comics.

[37:09] She was Franklin Richards' nanny.

[37:11] She used a big magic cat to scare off the wingless wizard.

[37:15] Nobody cared.

[37:16] It didn't matter.

Dan McCoy

[37:17] Say more things in that voice about comics.

Elliott Kalan

[37:20] Agatha Harkness was Scarlet Witch's mentor.

[37:23] She was burned alive and it was wrong.

[37:25] Why would you make her a villain?

[37:28] It doesn't make sense.

Dan McCoy

[37:29] This is like the opposite of ASMR, but still enjoyable, weirdly.

Elliott Kalan

[37:34] Vision, okay, in the comics he's created by Ultron to infiltrate the Avengers using the body of the original Human Torch.

[37:45] Although that was eventually retconned away and they said it wasn't what happened.

[37:48] And he has the brain powders, brain powders.

[37:51] He has the brain patterns and probably brain powders, because if you crumble up his brain it'll turn into powder, of Simon Williams.

[37:57] Wonder Man, who at the time was dead, but eventually came back.

[38:01] So I don't understand why in the movies he's created by Tony Stark with an infinity gem.

[38:06] It doesn't make sense.

[38:08] How do you feel about Ajak being a woman instead of a man?

[38:11] Why?

[38:12] What?

[38:12] Who's that?

[38:13] I don't understand.

[38:15] One of the Eternals.

[38:17] The who?

[38:17] I've already forgotten.

[38:18] It's like a slippery idea.

[38:20] It slides right out of my brain.

Stuart Wellington

[38:21] Yeah.

[38:22] Luckily.

[38:22] Okay.

[38:23] So there's no...

[38:24] But you said there was no fan backlash.

[38:26] But when the trailer first came out, there was a little bit of backlash because some of the design was so much plainer than the original Kirby designs.

[38:36] Specifically like a big spaceship.

Elliott Kalan

[38:39] Well, it's true.

[38:40] The spaceship that shows up in the beginning, in the comic books, that thing is a big, crazy Kirby creation.

[38:45] And it's fantastic.

[38:45] It's all these little parts.

[38:47] And in the movie, it's like a monolith on its side, with some lines drawn in it.

[38:51] And the costumes of the characters are much more muted.

[38:54] They don't have the bright, bold colors and the bright, Kirby designs, which are very geometric.

[38:59] But look, we're living in a...

[39:01] I'm just glad that Spider-Man has a costume that looks like Spider-Man's costume.

[39:06] And then Captain America at least has wings painted onto the side of his mask, even if he's not going to have little wings that stick out of the sides.

[39:12] Maybe he doesn't wear bucking in your boots, but you know what?

[39:14] You've got to take what you can get.

[39:16] For some reason, it's the understanding on the Marvel Universe when it comes to costumes, and the DC movies too, is that bright, bold colors are not fun.

[39:25] But you've got to have lots of little textures and little bits of crap, stuff sticking out all over the place.

[39:31] Vision can't just be a robot with a red head.

[39:33] He's got to have all these lines and grooves all over his face and his head.

[39:37] Guys, what's the deal with all the grooves?

[39:40] Why all the grooves, Dan?

[39:42] I want it to be like the Spark song, The Rhythm Thief.

[39:47] Hey, where did the groove go?

[39:49] I want them all gone.

[39:50] I don't like those grooves.

[39:51] You have bright, bold colors.

[39:52] The groove is in the heart, right?

[39:55] It's not on the head.

[39:56] It's all over Vision's face, exactly.

[39:58] The groove should be in the heart.

[39:59] I saw something about a groove tube once.

Dan McCoy

[40:03] It involved, I think, there was a gorilla who had a TV on his head.

Elliott Kalan

[40:06] And Richard Belzer's in it at some point.

[40:09] Listeners, if the groove is in your heart, that's correct.

[40:12] You should not have a smooth heart.

[40:14] You want your heart to be full of grooves.

Dan McCoy

[40:16] You want it to be very grooved, like a record.

Elliott Kalan

[40:19] That's what your heart should look like.

[40:20] But your face, maybe you have grooves on your face and maybe it looks great.

[40:23] But Vision should have a smooth face.

[40:25] He's a robot.

[40:26] Why are these grooves there?

[40:27] I just don't understand.

[40:29] I just don't understand why he has grooves on his face.

Stuart Wellington

[40:32] You're addressing our number one grooved face listener, Lance Henriksen.

Elliott Kalan

[40:37] And Lance, the grooves are working for you.

[40:39] I love it.

[40:40] It's just like the back of Jeff Goldblum's hand.

[40:42] You put a drop of water on it and you can see it go down all the grooves.

[40:45] It's beautiful.

[40:45] I love it.

Dan McCoy

[40:45] I want to put you on a turntable and listen to you all night, Lance.

Elliott Kalan

[40:49] Yeah, what do you think it sounds like when you play Lance Henriksen's face on a record player?

[40:54] Also, those are naturally eroded grooves.

[40:57] That's natural weathering from icebergs and wind and sea.

[41:02] And it's not just...

[41:02] It's not adding three-dimensional puffed-up webs to Spider-Man's body.

[41:08] Why does Spider-Man in the movies...

[41:10] Why does he have a funeral armlet around his shoulders?

[41:13] I don't understand it.

[41:13] But anyway, Dan, you were saying.

Dan McCoy

[41:15] Well, no.

[41:17] I agree that I want more colors.

[41:21] I don't understand why...

[41:23] I mean, particularly early on, like before the MCU, like when it was like the X-Men movies

[41:30] and people didn't believe that people would want to see superhero movies for some reason.

[41:35] Back when that was a risky proposition to make a superhero film.

[41:39] Like I didn't like the all black and gray costumes.

[41:44] It was just like, we got to make this look cool.

[41:46] Yeah, do you think they were hoping that people would go into the movies and be like, X-Men?

Stuart Wellington

[41:52] Well, they kind of look like a motorcycle gang.

[41:54] I'll go see this movie.

Dan McCoy

[41:55] Yeah, I'll see that.

[41:57] But I will defend texture to some degree.

[42:01] I'm sure it makes it easier cinematically just to have something going on rather than just the right blocks.

[42:11] I don't know.

Elliott Kalan

[42:12] This is not on subject of Eternals, but look at the Christopher Reeve Superman costume.

[42:16] In the Henry Cavill Superman costume.

[42:18] The Christopher Reeve one is super smooth.

[42:20] Looks great.

[42:21] The Henry Cavill one, it's full of grooves.

[42:23] Look at all the pebbles.

[42:24] It's so pebbly.

[42:25] He's got you there, Dan.

[42:26] It's like...

[42:27] Let me just show you.

[42:28] Okay, Dan.

[42:28] I agree.

[42:29] Okay, Dan.

[42:30] The Superman costume that Christopher Reeve wore, it's like a beautifully paved road.

[42:33] Your eyes just slide along it beautifully.

[42:36] Henry Cavill's suit's like driving down a cobblestone street.

[42:39] It's terrible.

[42:40] It's bad on your suspension.

[42:41] It's not comfortable.

[42:43] You don't like it.

[42:43] And if you're walking down it, you can easily trip and fall.

Dan McCoy

[42:46] I'll explain.

[42:47] The problem was that the Cavill costume was designed on a Sunday afternoon.

[42:52] So they had to be grooving.

[42:55] They had to be...

Elliott Kalan

[42:56] I guess that's what it was.

[42:59] That is the grooviest time.

[43:01] You're down to church.

[43:01] That is the time.

[43:02] You can finally loosen your tie.

[43:04] Mm-hmm.

[43:05] So anyway, so there's...

[43:07] That's the...

[43:07] The positive aspect of this is that no one cares about the Eternals.

[43:11] So they have a free hand to do whatever they want with their characters.

[43:15] The other side is that these characters do not have a particularly interesting hook.

[43:19] They're kind of like basically the Inhumans but less so.

[43:23] You know?

[43:24] And so the main issue of the movie though, and this has been brought up by a lot of people,

[43:27] what have these Eternals been doing just hanging around?

[43:30] Like Thanos killed half the universe and the Eternals were like,

[43:32] I'm busy.

[43:34] I don't like to get involved.

[43:35] What have they been doing all this time?

[43:37] I guess the movie will answer that question.

[43:38] But guys, guess what?

[43:40] We're in luck.

[43:41] Because along with the Eternals comes another character.

[43:45] Everyone's favorite Marvel Universe character is going to be abused.

[43:47] Black Joe?

[43:48] And ugh, okay.

[43:49] Everyone's second favorite Marvel Universe character.

[43:51] Don't say Carcass.

[43:52] Okay.

[43:52] Everyone's third favorite Marvel Universe character.

[43:54] Although Carcass...

[43:55] If Carcass was in the movie, I'd be like, this is fantastic.

[43:57] This is amazing.

[43:58] What's...

[43:58] I think what's amazing is that the Shang-Chi trailer came out and everyone was like,

[44:03] is Fin Fang Foom in this movie?

[44:05] And that there's nothing in the Eternals trailer that is as exciting as that, you know?

Stuart Wellington

[44:09] As the hope that Fin Fang Foom is in it?

Elliott Kalan

[44:12] As the hope that there's a giant alien dragon that can be put to sleep with a magic spice herb, you know?

[44:19] And that, at least in the original comics, wears tiny purple shorts.

[44:22] Like, there's no hope in the Eternals that there's going to be a dragon wearing tiny purple shorts.

[44:27] Again, another Jack Kirby design, I believe.

[44:30] So, this movie is finally introduced.

[44:33] Dan, who's your favorite Marvel character who hasn't been in the movies yet?

Dan McCoy

[44:38] Kitty Pryde.

[44:39] No.

[44:40] In the MCU.

[44:40] No.

Elliott Kalan

[44:41] Your other favorite.

[44:41] Your other favorite Marvel character who hasn't been in the MCU yet.

Dan McCoy

[44:45] Who?

[44:47] Puck?

Elliott Kalan

[44:48] No.

[44:48] Keep going.

[44:48] From Alpha Flight, it's not him.

[44:49] Keep going.

[44:50] It's a pretty good one now.

[44:50] Who's your favorite that's not been in the MCU?

[44:52] Third favorite, then.

Dan McCoy

[44:53] I can't...

[44:54] Is Modok in it?

Elliott Kalan

[44:58] He's not.

[44:58] Okay.

[44:58] He has his own show.

[44:59] Fourth favorite who hasn't been in the MCU.

[45:00] I mean, Modok is in the MCU because his show takes place within that universe.

[45:03] Okay.

[45:04] Dr. Doom.

[45:05] Is it Dr. Doom?

[45:06] It's...

[45:06] Okay.

[45:06] Fifth favorite.

[45:07] Who's your fifth favorite character who hasn't been in the MCU?

Dan McCoy

[45:08] I was actually excited that it might actually be...

[45:10] It's not Dr. Doom.

Elliott Kalan

[45:12] No.

[45:12] It is an armored character, but...

[45:14] Okay.

[45:14] Who's your...

[45:15] I've already given away too much.

[45:16] Moon Knight.

[45:17] Moon Knight.

[45:17] Is it Moon Knight?

[45:18] No.

[45:18] He's getting his own show on Disney+.

Stuart Wellington

[45:20] Watching Dan remember names of characters is amazing.

Elliott Kalan

[45:23] Dan is really...

[45:24] These are characters I didn't know you knew.

[45:26] What about...

[45:27] Is it one of the Micronauts?

[45:28] What are you...

[45:28] No.

[45:29] Okay.

[45:29] That was this licensed property.

[45:30] Marvel doesn't own that license anymore.

[45:32] Seventh favorite.

[45:33] Who's your seventh favorite Marvel character who hasn't been in the MCU?

[45:35] Because this is going to be it.

Dan McCoy

[45:38] Is it Dr. Bong?

Elliott Kalan

[45:39] No.

[45:40] It's not Dr. Bong from the Howard the Duck Hawks.

[45:41] Okay.

[45:42] Eight favorite.

[45:42] Your eighth favorite MCU character.

[45:44] Marvel character who hasn't been in the MCU.

[45:45] Just...

[45:45] Okay.

[45:46] Who is it?

[45:46] He's going to be in this one.

Stuart Wellington

[45:47] If Dan says Annihilus, I would eat my hat.

Dan McCoy

[45:51] I think I've run out of good answers.

Elliott Kalan

[45:55] Just give me any answers.

[45:56] Your favorites.

[45:57] Come on.

[45:57] They don't all have to be Dr. Bong.

[45:58] My favorites.

Dan McCoy

[46:00] Who actually do I like that hasn't been...

[46:04] It's not Slapstick.

Elliott Kalan

[46:07] The cartoon character.

[46:08] Superhero.

[46:09] Mm-hmm.

Dan McCoy

[46:12] I don't know, man.

[46:14] Well, I'll just tell you.

[46:15] It's Bay Bay Bill.

Elliott Kalan

[46:17] It's not Bay Bay Bill.

[46:18] His face showed up in Thor Ragnarok.

[46:19] So we got it.

[46:20] That was...

[46:20] Hopefully that's not all we get because he's an amazing character.

[46:23] Okay.

[46:24] Hold on to your butts, guys.

[46:26] Because this is...

[46:26] You're going to fall over.

[46:28] You're going to be so excited.

[46:28] Okay.

[46:30] Dane Whitman, the Black Knight.

[46:33] Whoa.

[46:33] Wait, what?

[46:34] Who's that?

[46:35] He's...

[46:36] Okay.

[46:36] Who?

[46:36] I'm amazed you're asking me because he's everyone's favorite Marvel character.

[46:40] Dane Whitman, the Black Knight.

[46:41] He is a knight who has a magic sword that is hundreds of...

[46:45] Thousands of years old.

[46:46] And it gives him ill-defined powers, strength, I guess.

[46:50] He also has a horse with wings.

[46:52] And Dan, don't look up the villain, the Black Knight, who had the same horse.

Dan McCoy

[46:55] Oh, he's going to be played by Kit Harington, girl detective.

Elliott Kalan

[46:58] He's going to be played by Kit Harington.

[46:59] So I assume it's a backdoor pilot for a Black Knight movie.

[47:04] So it's almost like they said to themselves, we're launching an Eternals franchise.

[47:09] Who is the character that would make the Eternals look exciting by comparison?

[47:13] Oh, okay.

[47:14] The Black Knight.

[47:16] Everyone's least favorite Avenger after Gilgamesh, who is one of the Eternals.

[47:21] So, guys, it was all a ruse.

[47:24] It was not one of Dan's favorite characters.

[47:25] That was just a hilarious bit to make you realize how unexcited I am to have the Black Knight

[47:30] entering into the Marvel Cinematic Universe at a time when they really are holding their gunpowder dry on the Fantastic Four

[47:37] and not really moving forward on plans for those characters.

[47:41] Or the Great Lakes Avengers.

[47:43] Oh, if only the Great Lakes Avengers were involved.

[47:46] Oh, Flatman, Doorman.

Stuart Wellington

[47:48] Why not Wonder Man?

Elliott Kalan

[47:49] He feels like an easy one to do.

[47:52] So I don't know what they're doing with Wonder Man.

[47:55] I once pitched a Wonder Man show to Marvel's television division when they had a separate television division.

[48:00] And they looked into it and they were told that something might be done with Wonder Man at some point.

[48:05] Yeah.

[48:05] So he was off the table.

[48:08] But, guys, that's pretty much the Eternals.

[48:12] So to wrap things up, the Eternals are somewhat racist, superpowered, immortal beings created by giant armored space aliens whose heads look like coffee makers.

[48:27] They are eternally at war with another race of evil beings that we have not heard about in the Marvel Cinematic Universe up to this point.

[48:35] And they are the source of all of our myths and dreams, which automatically means they're probably the most interesting characters that ever existed.

[48:45] And I defy anyone to watch the trailer and tell me who these characters are and what they do.

[48:53] So, guys, have I made you more excited about the Eternals movie?

[48:58] Uh, kind of, actually.

[48:59] Kind of.

[49:00] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[49:00] Yeah.

[49:01] I kind of.

[49:01] I like that.

[49:02] Right.

[49:02] That's fair.

Dan McCoy

[49:03] I like how weird it all sounds.

[49:05] I mean, like, at this point, I have been most fond of new Marvel movies, like, the weirder they get.

[49:13] And so they're going to go into some weird zone.

[49:16] Also, I just finally looked up these Celestials.

[49:20] Oh, boy.

[49:21] I like the looks of these guys.

[49:22] I mean, if the Celestials.

[49:24] They got crazy colors.

Elliott Kalan

[49:25] I am not particularly excited about this movie because I don't.

[49:29] I just don't have a connection with these characters.

Stuart Wellington

[49:31] Well, I'm excited about the idea that this Celestials, like, this, like, this subheading of the Marvel Cinematic Universe that they're going, that they might keep dipping into these Academy Award winning directors.

[49:42] Like, I feel like that Black Knight movie doesn't sound that exciting unless it's directed by Paul Schrader.

[49:51] Director of Heartbeeps.

[49:52] Interesting choice.

[49:55] Really, that's Paul Schrader's go-to credit.

Dan McCoy

[49:57] Director of Heartbeeps.

[49:59] I don't think he did direct Heartbeeps, too.

[50:01] No, he didn't at all.

[50:02] I think he did.

[50:02] Yeah, yeah.

[50:03] This is something that Stuart said to me the other night as well.

[50:08] He's bringing in a running joke from off the podcast that he thinks of being Andy Kaufman, Bernadette Peters, winsome comedy where they're both robots.

Elliott Kalan

[50:21] It's Paul Schrader, though, right?

[50:22] He just wrote it.

[50:23] He just wrote it.

[50:25] Stu is constantly getting Paul Schrader and Alan Arkish mixed up.

[50:28] And that's why he thinks that Alan Arkish...

[50:29] Oh, yeah, the director of Rock and Roll High School.

[50:32] That's why he thinks Paul Schrader directed Heartbeeps and Caddyshack, too.

[50:35] And that Alan Arkish directed Mishima, A Life in Four Chapters, and First Reformed.

Stuart Wellington

[50:44] Yeah, I mean, it's...

[50:45] I mean, I think everybody does that shit, right?

Elliott Kalan

[50:48] I feel like Paul Schrader's Rock and Roll High School would be a very different movie.

[50:51] Yes.

[50:53] And frankly, his Heartbeeps would be a very different movie.

[50:58] More despair.

[50:59] But I think what I was going to say is I feel like if the movie gets weird the way the Eternals can get weird, the way Jack Kirby's looking weird, then I think I'll really enjoy it.

[51:06] And I hope that the Celestials, like, the same way that when they made the mistake in that Fantastic Four sequel of making Galactus like a big purple cloud, like, I hope they don't mess with the Celestial designs too much.

[51:18] Partly because the Celestials, they're covered in grooves.

[51:20] They're covered in grooves.

[51:21] Yeah.

[51:21] So they already got them.

[51:22] You know, the grooves in the heart on them end all over their bodies.

[51:25] Yeah.

[51:25] And you want them to look like these big, crazy armored aliens with no faces.

[51:30] But I'm worried that they're going to take it a little too seriously.

[51:34] But only time will tell.

[51:35] I will be happy to be proven wrong.

[51:37] And you know what?

[51:38] If I'm proven wrong, here's what I'll do to you.

[51:42] I'll say, I'll admit on the air.

[51:45] What?

[51:46] That I was wrong.

Dan McCoy

[51:48] Unprecedented.

[51:49] Oh, wow.

[51:49] In all the history of the internet.

Elliott Kalan

[51:52] But again, I have to be proved wrong.

[51:53] The Eternals has to be, like, really great.

[51:55] And then I'll come on the air and I'll be like, I was wrong.

[51:57] And if it ends with a credit sequence where Lockjaw licks the camera, then it's my new favorite movie.

[52:03] Right off the top.

[52:05] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[52:06] Well, you were the person who predicted that Avatar would be a big flop.

[52:12] Did I?

[52:13] Yeah.

[52:13] I remember it well.

Elliott Kalan

[52:15] I mean, it's possible.

[52:16] I didn't look, I mean, I never saw it.

[52:18] So as far as I'm concerned, it was a flop.

[52:19] Yeah.

[52:22] It didn't get the hallowed Elliot Kalin.

[52:26] Quadrant.

[52:28] Yeah, there's four quadrants.

[52:30] Stu, Dan, Elliot, and everybody else.

[52:32] Yeah.

[52:33] And you can get everybody else in the world that's only one quadrant.

[52:35] You're still going to get the other three or else you don't get an EGOT.

[52:38] Yeah.

[52:38] So guys, to bring this to a close, that's more than anyone has ever talked about the Eternals ever in history.

[52:45] Hopefully, it will be a movie more in the vein of Guardians of the Galaxy, by which I mean just characters that people aren't familiar with, that they take a liking to, and are won over by.

[52:55] Because I'll remind the world something that I think I forget sometimes.

[52:58] In the olden days, people used to see movies about characters they didn't know anything about.

[53:03] And they'd like them.

[53:05] So it is not, you don't have to know a character already and already be a fan of theirs to enjoy the movie about them.

[53:10] So let's all go, if we choose to see Eternals, let's do it with an open heart full of grooves, an open mind also full of grooves, because your brain is pretty groove-full.

[53:19] I was going to say groovy, but not everyone's brain is groovy, but they're all full of grooves.

[53:23] They're full of rinks.

[53:25] And let's be nice to each other, okay?

[53:28] Just like the Eternals would be.

[53:30] Elliot keeps taking the car around the block.

Dan McCoy

[53:34] Elliot's brain is getting groovier with every moment.

Elliott Kalan

[53:37] It's the ending of a podcast equivalent of there's no parking spot here, but what if I go this way?

[53:43] Oh, wait, someone took my spot.

[53:45] There was a spot, but I just missed it.

[53:47] Sometimes the trick is to just park, man.

[53:50] What, park in the middle of the street, Dan?

[53:52] Just abandon the vehicle.

[53:54] Abandon the car, just light it on fire and walk away?

[53:57] That's a power move, my friend.

[54:00] When you say to the world, I don't even need my car anymore.

[54:03] Anyway, this is Elliot Kalin saying thanks for listening.

[54:06] I've been joined, as always, by my fellow travelers through the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

[54:11] Their names are...

[54:12] Dan McCoy.

[54:13] And Stuart Wellington.

[54:15] And if I leave you with one thing, it's just this.

[54:18] Let Kumail work out with J.K. Simmons.

[54:20] They're best friends.

[54:21] They don't get to see each other that much.

[54:23] They need their workout time.

[54:24] So Kumail, J.K. Simmons, keep on working out together.

[54:27] Eternals, coming your way in November.

[54:29] Ivan Elliot Kalin.

[54:30] Oh, there's a spot.

[54:31] Hold on, guys.

[54:32] Hold on.

[54:32] I'm steering into it.

[54:33] Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

[54:35] and it's a hydrant.

[54:37] Okay, we got to go around again.

[54:39] You know what?

[54:40] Listeners, you leave us.

[54:41] I'll just talk to Dan

[54:41] for another 10 minutes.

S4

[54:42] Bye.

FH Mini 33 - Elliott Explains The Eternals

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