FH Mini 91 - Best Horror Villains, Part 1

[0:00] Hey, this is another almost turned into Return to Innocence on the Pure Moods CD.

[0:11] Speaking of the 90s, as we were before we started recording, hey, this is a follow-up

[0:17] house mini, which is a shorter episode of our podcast instead of our regular episode

[0:22] where we review a bad movie and talk about it.

[0:24] On one of these, we're going to do whatever we want.

[0:26] And this time, Stew Balls is driving the car.

[0:29] Now, just to pull back the curtain a little bit, Stew Balls over here is getting over

[0:32] a 24-hour bug, and I spent most of the day in bed and drinking broth and tea, which sounds

[0:38] lovely, but in reality, not so great.

[0:41] That's right.

[0:42] 24 hours watching the movie Bug over and over and over again.

[0:47] Oh, boy.

[0:48] Oh, man.

[0:49] Stewart, wait.

[0:50] Hold on.

[0:51] Sorry.

[0:52] We stumbled into it.

[0:53] I finally had the local Brooklyn experience of seeing Michael Shannon somewhere.

[0:57] Oh, cool.

[0:58] Where are you speaking of Bug?

[1:04] I was coming back from Fort Greene on the G train, and there he was on the platform in

[1:10] some sort of bowling shirt with a horse on it, and I was like, that's Michael Shannon.

[1:17] Was he reading a book?

[1:18] Was he scrolling through his iPod mini?

[1:19] He was scrolling through his phone.

[1:20] I don't want to get too much into what, you know, he's a man.

[1:24] He's a human man.

[1:25] I don't want to report too much on his activities past what I've already given.

[1:30] Yeah.

[1:31] Yeah.

[1:32] I think he was.

[1:33] Yeah.

[1:34] So this has been another installment of Dan McCoy paparazzo.

[1:35] But I was like, who's the interrupter now, dog?

[1:39] Damn.

[1:40] Sorry.

[1:41] I had to get my TMZ in there.

[1:43] Now, you mentioned a classic Brooklyn experience, which is true.

[1:47] I believe it was the Lenape native peoples who first spoke of Michael Shannon being sighted

[1:52] among the trees in what is now modern day Brooklyn.

[1:56] Yeah.

[1:57] Yep.

[1:58] He was mistaken for a Bigfoot, much like his hit film, whatever that Bigfoot Christmas

[2:04] movie was.

[2:05] That Sasquatch Christmas one that we watched?

[2:06] Yeah.

[2:07] And they and, you know, it's a legend says that he carved the Buttermilk Channel by dragging

[2:10] his axe.

[2:11] He was so tired one day.

[2:13] Oh, yeah.

[2:14] That's great.

[2:15] That's good.

[2:17] That's good.

[2:18] That's good.

[2:19] Local Brooklyn stuff.

[2:20] OK, so.

[2:21] So it's important.

[2:22] It's it's cool that Elliot brings up myths and legends, because as I should, we should

[2:28] we introduce ourselves or do you want to or should we go into what what you're going to

[2:31] do?

[2:32] I mean, if they're still listening, they probably are.

[2:33] Good point.

[2:34] Good point.

[2:35] Fair point.

[2:36] Fair point.

[2:37] OK, no, that's fair.

[2:38] We are professionals.

[2:39] So let's keep it super profesh, dudes.

[2:41] I am Stuart Wellington.

[2:42] And joining me are Dan McCoy and I'm Elliot Kalin.

[2:46] And the reason I wanted to bring up introductions is so that I could briefly mention, I'll tell

[2:49] you more about it later in the show.

[2:50] Our October 19th show at Vidiots is coming up.

[2:53] Two shows in one night at Vidiots in L.A. and Flop TV.

[2:57] The recording of our most recent episode is up to watch.

[2:59] I'll tell you more about how to get there later in the show.

[3:02] Stu, back to you.

[3:04] OK, gang.

[3:05] So as I I had you guys do a little preparation before this many.

[3:10] And that's because on today's many, we are doing the definitive 2023 rankings of horror

[3:18] movie villains.

[3:21] This is the definitive for all this year.

[3:23] Twenty twenty three.

[3:24] We'll revisit it next year, of course.

[3:26] So what we'll be doing every year, every year we do definitive 2023 horror villains, which

[3:31] is why it's been hard up till this year to do it.

[3:34] The final we get to do it difficult because we didn't know what villains would actually

[3:38] be in the horror movies in 2023.

[3:40] But going forward will be much easier because we're looking back rather than looking forward.

[3:44] Yeah.

[3:45] So as as astute listeners can see, Elliot caught me slipping.

[3:48] He got me doing a little slip of the tongue.

[3:51] That's on me.

[3:52] It's fair.

[3:53] I'll take my lumps.

[3:58] So Stuart's defense is extreme affability.

[4:01] Fair is fair, you know.

[4:05] So we.

[4:06] So he rolls with the wave.

[4:07] He doesn't steal himself and get knocked over by the way he rolls.

[4:11] Yeah.

[4:12] So today we're going to be ranking 14 of the most iconic horror movie villains and we're

[4:18] going to be ranking them on three categories and then we're going to be totaling up those

[4:21] scores and we're going to see who is the twenty twenty three ultimate horror villain.

[4:26] OK, you guys excited?

[4:27] Yeah.

[4:28] Yeah.

[4:29] Yeah.

[4:30] Opportunity.

[4:31] In addition to giving your your score, you're also going to be able to make a little bit

[4:33] of an argument to defend your case.

[4:36] So we're, of course, going to be ranking our horror movie villains, as I explained

[4:39] to you previously, in three categories.

[4:43] The first is scariness that's on a scale of one to ten, one being least, ten being most.

[4:51] So scariness, star power.

[4:54] OK.

[4:55] And then finally, lucky dip, which will be a random category determined by you guys.

[5:01] I love it.

[5:04] OK.

[5:05] And it's going to be different for each for each villain.

[5:08] OK, so the so why don't we get start while we get started with one of the smallest, but

[5:14] certainly not least, horror villains.

[5:17] Chucky from the Child's Play franchise.

[5:19] OK.

[5:20] Do you guys have experience with Chucky?

[5:21] Have you seen any of the Child's Play movies or maybe the television show or maybe purchased

[5:26] any dolls?

[5:27] I believe that at this point I have seen except for three, maybe, but I think maybe I have

[5:35] and I just keep forgetting it because two or three are kind of forgettable.

[5:38] I've seen all of the mainline Child's Play films.

[5:41] OK.

[5:42] Wow.

[5:43] That's pretty impressive.

[5:44] I feel like I've seen a handful.

[5:45] That's my answer.

[5:46] Elliott, I think I saw the I've seen the first one, but it was years ago and I don't remember

[5:50] it hugely.

[5:51] And I don't know that I ever saw any of the sequels or the television show.

[5:55] Is this not a series that particularly appealed to me?

[5:57] Hey, Brad Dourif, don't get mad.

[5:59] You're great.

[6:00] But the series just didn't appeal to me.

[6:01] Well, can I say, Elliott, that his eyebrows are bristling when you say that?

[6:06] No, no.

[6:07] I don't.

[6:08] Look, I've given up trying to change anyone's mind about any pop culture thing, but I haven't

[6:13] given up on providing gentle nudges of my own opinion.

[6:17] And that's to say that, like, one of the things that I really like about the Child's Play

[6:19] series is Don Mancini.

[6:25] He wrote the whole thing.

[6:27] All of the movies are by the same screenwriter and he treats everything like a Star Wars

[6:34] prequels, a sign of quality, and he treats everything as canon.

[6:38] So the so it's just fun that like the movies start off serious, like get campier for a

[6:44] while and then get more serious again.

[6:46] But he still integrates the campy stuff into the film, like as if like, yeah, this is all

[6:52] just part of one big timeline.

[6:54] There's a lot of twists and turns that are kind of surprising in the series.

[6:57] That's all I say about it.

[6:59] Love it.

[7:00] That's a that's a firm argument.

[7:01] So now it's time for us to get in the middle right now at home with watching Kobayashi's

[7:07] humanist masterpiece, The Human Condition, which is a nine hour series.

[7:11] And I mean, maybe when I'm done with that, I'll pick up Child's Play where I left off

[7:14] to be Child's Play 2 and then get right with that series.

[7:20] I mean, who's to say who's living life more correctly?

[7:26] I would argue there's time for both in life.

[7:28] OK, so first, we're going to start with scariness, guys.

[7:31] One to ten.

[7:32] Where does Chucky fall?

[7:34] I'd like to give Chucky two scores on this one.

[7:37] Me as a child and to me currently as an adult, I'm going to say no.

[7:42] As an adult, I'm going to give Chucky like a two.

[7:44] It's not that scary to me.

[7:45] He's an easily overpowered small doll.

[7:48] But as a kid, that would be a ten plus.

[7:50] I found him so scary.

[7:52] And there was a cardboard standee, a much larger than life sized cardboard standee,

[7:56] in the video store where I was a kid of Chucky.

[7:59] And when that movie first came out on VHS, and I was so frightened by it.

[8:02] I thought just the image of him was so scary.

[8:04] And so as a kid, I would say super frightening.

[8:06] But as an adult, I'm going to give him a two.

[8:08] OK, Dan, scariness.

[8:12] This is tough because I would say that Chucky has undergone...

[8:15] Give him three scores.

[8:16] Give him three different scores.

[8:17] No, I'm not going to do that.

[8:18] It really makes you mad.

[8:19] Chucky has undergone a process of Freddy Kruegerization over the years

[8:25] where he becomes like the wacky protagonist of his own series.

[8:30] And once that happens, you get less and less scary.

[8:34] But I did find the original child's play really scary when I first saw it.

[8:40] So I'm going to give him a six.

[8:42] I think the thing that really puts me off about Chucky

[8:46] is the same thing I found scary as a kid, which is his total mean-spiritedness.

[8:50] He is so mean.

[8:51] And he's so, like, just...

[8:53] There's nothing...

[8:54] Unlike those sweet killer dolls.

[8:56] Well, no, but I mean, there's a certain kind of, like...

[8:59] I mean, my type of killer, and I'm sure he'll show up in this ranking,

[9:03] is more of a, like, hulking, silent, you know, Jason type.

[9:07] Maybe he'll show up in the rankings. Who knows?

[9:10] But there's something about Chucky that is just so, like, vulgarly mean.

[9:13] Like, he's just a mean...

[9:14] The kind of person where, completely without the wit of a Freddy Krueger,

[9:18] is just saying mean, insulting things to people while he kills them.

[9:21] And, like, being rough and abusive.

[9:23] And that's really frightening to me.

[9:24] So, yeah.

[9:25] I'm gonna split the difference.

[9:27] I give Chucky a solid five here.

[9:29] Because, as you guys said, as a child, very scary.

[9:32] Less scary as I become a massive, muscular adult.

[9:36] Let's go on to...

[9:38] You have become a massive, muscular adult.

[9:40] Let's talk about...

[9:42] Star... Star...

[9:44] Is that what that stands for?

[9:46] Massive, muscular adults?

[9:48] Just beating the shit out of each other.

[9:50] Yeah, it's like guts.

[9:52] So, it's one step above the VMAs, which is very muscular adults.

[9:57] Yes.

[10:00] in a battle royale for best music video.

[10:04] I gotta start watching the VMAs.

[10:06] And that goes above TMI, which is

[10:08] too muscular infant.

[10:10] That infant is too muscular.

[10:12] What is he working out with?

[10:14] I don't understand.

[10:15] What a piece of shit.

[10:16] Was he lifting his placenta?

[10:17] What's going on?

[10:18] What's in that formula?

[10:20] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[10:22] Yeah, he's gotta be juicing if he looks bigger than me.

[10:25] We thought we were given that baby formula.

[10:27] It's creatine. The whole time it's been creatine.

[10:29] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[10:30] It's some off-brand rip fuel.

[10:35] Okay, so that's...

[10:36] Blow the dust off the top of that.

[10:38] Above formula it says,

[10:39] Super Soldier.

[10:41] Oh, no.

[10:42] We shouldn't have been giving him the one from the Dusty bottle.

[10:45] That's our fault.

[10:47] Yeah, yeah. Okay, well.

[10:49] That's our mistake for being hunchbacks

[10:52] and having to get the right formula.

[10:54] Okay, so that is...

[10:56] That's gonna be scariness.

[10:58] What about star power?

[11:00] How much staying power, as an image, does Chucky have?

[11:04] One to ten.

[11:06] Hmm.

[11:07] I mean, you go first, Dan.

[11:09] You love this character.

[11:10] I'm gonna put him close to the top

[11:12] because I think that it's a pretty iconic-looking monster.

[11:18] It's a very...

[11:19] You know, like, all the bright colors and whatnot,

[11:21] but also, like...

[11:23] Yeah, the thing every iconic monster has, bright colors.

[11:26] Well, but that sets him apart.

[11:28] Dracula, the Munger.

[11:30] You have the Xenomorph, just bright, psychedelic.

[11:34] Beyond just the look, like...

[11:36] Like a fresh piece of tropical fruit, all these monsters.

[11:40] There's, like, eight mainline Chucky movies

[11:44] that, as I say, keep a continuity that makes sense,

[11:48] unlike a lot of long-running horror franchises.

[11:52] Plus, there's a reboot.

[11:54] Plus, there's, like, that Chucky TV show,

[11:56] which I kind of want to check out

[11:58] because I think it is also Don Mancini.

[12:00] But, I don't know.

[12:02] I'll go with eight.

[12:04] Here's something I would say.

[12:05] Oh, sorry. What did you say?

[12:06] I was just gonna say, solid score.

[12:08] Dan, I am with you.

[12:09] I think it's an eight as well.

[12:10] Very...

[12:11] Really stands out and obviously has lasted the test of time.

[12:14] Elliot.

[12:15] I'm gonna say the same thing, actually.

[12:16] I was gonna say eight.

[12:17] Personally, again, not that attracted to the idea of Chucky.

[12:20] And I don't mean sexually attracted.

[12:21] I just mean interesting.

[12:23] It's not that...

[12:24] Hey, dude.

[12:25] I don't mean that.

[12:26] Considering it.

[12:27] Is that one of the ratings?

[12:28] How much of a boner you get?

[12:29] I mean, it should be later on, I assume.

[12:31] Could be in the lucky dip.

[12:32] Yeah.

[12:33] Clearly, it doesn't appeal to me,

[12:35] but Chucky has stood the test of time

[12:37] and has outlasted the kind of dolls

[12:40] that he was even a kind of horror take on.

[12:42] So, you gotta give him...

[12:44] I would say eight also.

[12:45] Gotta give him a high mark for iconicity.

[12:47] Okay, and now here's the random category,

[12:49] and I'm gonna let Dan pick a number.

[12:51] Pick a number between one and 14,

[12:53] and that will determine what is the category

[12:55] we're ranking him on.

[12:57] Five.

[12:58] Five.

[12:59] Let me mark that down.

[13:00] Okay, five would be...

[13:02] Actually, I think he's gonna crush this one.

[13:04] On a scale of one to ten,

[13:05] how good do you think Chucky would be

[13:07] at hosting a morning show?

[13:10] Yeah, that's gotta be a ten.

[13:12] Very much so.

[13:13] Oh, man, he's gonna fucking crush it, right?

[13:14] He would be very abusive.

[13:15] Again, rough and abusive on his guests,

[13:17] but he'd do a great job.

[13:18] Yeah, I think another ten.

[13:20] Probably like an Adult Swim-style morning show.

[13:22] Yeah, it's like the Eric Andre show.

[13:24] Yeah, very much so, yeah.

[13:26] Yeah, I would say the only...

[13:28] I feel like there would be some level of him

[13:30] putting people off with his meanness,

[13:32] so I'm gonna give him a nine,

[13:33] but that's ten, ten, nine.

[13:34] That's some good-ass scores, Chucky.

[13:36] That's gonna be tough to beat,

[13:37] but maybe somebody will.

[13:39] And I think we have another heavy hitter

[13:41] for our second contestant.

[13:42] That's right, Michael Myers.

[13:44] He looks like William Shatner,

[13:46] but weirder.

[13:48] Michael Myers from the Halloween franchise.

[13:50] There's been a million of these.

[13:51] I've only watched, I don't know, some of them,

[13:53] and a lot of them are crappy,

[13:55] but let's see how good he ranks.

[13:57] So, Michael Myers,

[13:59] have you guys seen some of these Halloween movies?

[14:02] I have seen every Halloween movie

[14:05] except for number five.

[14:07] Oh, okay.

[14:08] Is there a reason why number five didn't...

[14:11] Well, I actually am planning on watching it soon

[14:15] because I just watched number four for the first time.

[14:17] Basically, one through three all have their partisans.

[14:23] One's a classic.

[14:25] Two is an okay follow-up to that,

[14:27] and then three is weirdo, bonkers stuff

[14:30] that horror fans love.

[14:32] Yeah, so that's one.

[14:33] And then later on,

[14:35] there was the reboots that started coming out

[14:39] when I was in college or whatever,

[14:41] and so I would see those,

[14:43] or high school.

[14:45] Like H20?

[14:46] Yeah, H20 and the others.

[14:49] It's the 20th anniversary movie, isn't it?

[14:52] It's not about water.

[14:53] You're right.

[14:54] People call it H20, but that's stupid.

[14:56] It's not like, now he's made out of water.

[14:59] He can do whatever he wants.

[15:01] He can slide under doors.

[15:02] If only Hydro-Man is Spider-Man's toughest villain.

[15:05] His most beloved villain.

[15:07] Hydro-Man, the only villain that...

[15:09] The only villain Sony is like,

[15:11] let's not make a movie about him.

[15:13] Let's do all the other ones.

[15:15] To tie up a boring loose end,

[15:17] basically those slip through the cracks

[15:20] and they don't have many partisans.

[15:23] Those two are kind of regarded

[15:26] as some of the low points in the series,

[15:28] but I was just like, you know what?

[15:30] I've come so far.

[15:31] Let me just plug this hole.

[15:33] So I'm watching them this Halloween season.

[15:35] That's exciting.

[15:37] Have you watched all of them?

[15:39] Have you watched any of them?

[15:40] Have you ever seen Halloween?

[15:41] I've watched the first three,

[15:42] and then it's pretty spotty hit and miss after that.

[15:46] I haven't seen any of the recent new ones.

[15:49] Yeah, don't worry about it.

[15:52] I haven't gotten into those.

[15:53] I find that, and we'll get into this in greater depth,

[15:56] I'm sure, with our rankings,

[15:57] that Michael Myers, to me,

[15:58] is like a more primitive early version

[16:01] of something I like a lot,

[16:03] but he's not all the way there.

[16:07] Well, why don't we just jump into it?

[16:09] How do we rank Mr. Michael Myers in scariness?

[16:13] And that's not Mike Myers the comedian.

[16:15] 10, 10, 10.

[16:17] Hugely scary.

[16:19] He marries an ax murderer.

[16:21] How scary do you have to be to do that?

[16:25] Yeah.

[16:27] I think this is another case of, you know,

[16:30] he's been dampened by time,

[16:32] in this case not by becoming campier,

[16:34] but like being in so many bad sequels,

[16:38] because we were ranking just on the original Halloween,

[16:41] I'd put him at like an eight or nine,

[16:43] but I think sort of overall now,

[16:46] I've got to go with a seven.

[16:47] Okay, that's still a solid score.

[16:49] Elliot?

[16:50] I think, you know what?

[16:51] I think I'm going to give him a five.

[16:53] I probably would have found him scarier

[16:56] when he was a fresh new flavor,

[16:58] but by the time I got into horror movies,

[17:00] he had already been around for a long time,

[17:02] and they were better, scarier.

[17:04] His children were scarier than him,

[17:06] which we all hope.

[17:07] We all hope our children will go on to be scarier than we are.

[17:09] That's what the American dream.

[17:11] But it's always put a damper on him.

[17:13] I've never found him too particularly scary.

[17:16] Yeah, there's something relentless about him,

[17:18] and also he somehow learns to drive a car

[17:20] while in a mental institute,

[17:22] so that's impressive.

[17:24] I mean, he scares Donald Pleasence,

[17:26] and he's kind of a scary guy, so.

[17:28] Yeah, that's true.

[17:29] I don't want to, yeah.

[17:30] It's like Quint's shark speech.

[17:33] Like if something scares that guy,

[17:35] I'm scared of it too.

[17:36] Oh, yeah.

[17:37] Okay, so I think I'm kind of with you.

[17:39] I mean, have you seen Wake and Fright?

[17:41] Donald Pleasence is a creepy dude, so.

[17:43] He is, and I have.

[17:45] So that's not featured in this list, though.

[17:49] Okay, so that's not.

[17:51] I'm giving him a whopping six for scary.

[17:54] So we're going to move on to star power.

[17:58] How lasting an image is Mr. Michael Myers?

[18:01] How much of a star is he?

[18:04] I mean, he's clearly had a lot of longevity,

[18:07] but even though I personally had,

[18:11] there's no movie in the Friday the 13th series

[18:15] that I like as much as I like the original Halloween

[18:18] and the third Halloween.

[18:20] But, I mean, which Michael Myers is not in,

[18:22] but like.

[18:25] Yeah, like I really love Michael Myers

[18:27] because I love Halloween 3.

[18:29] But.

[18:30] You know what I, you know I love Boba Fett.

[18:32] That's why I love Star Wars A New Hope.

[18:34] Yeah.

[18:35] No, I realize it didn't make any sense after I said.

[18:38] But my point is, like as much as I feel that way,

[18:41] like Jason has become so much more like the iconic vision

[18:45] of that kind of slasher.

[18:46] Like, so I feel like I have to give him,

[18:49] you know, Michael Myers some demerits

[18:51] for having that sort of taken away from him.

[18:54] Yes, he did after class.

[18:56] So, I don't know.

[18:58] But there's been a lot of movies,

[19:00] I'm still gonna go with an eight.

[19:02] Oh, wow, that's good.

[19:03] Okay, Elliot.

[19:04] I think I'm gonna go with a seven

[19:06] because, again, his individual like stature,

[19:10] look, all that I don't find particularly iconic,

[19:13] but still around.

[19:15] He's still here.

[19:16] Like Stephen Sondheim said in the song he wrote

[19:18] about Michael Myers, I'm still here.

[19:20] And so, you can't deny that.

[19:22] But he does feel like the,

[19:25] he feels B team to me at this point.

[19:27] Which takes, you know, I'm gonna give him a six actually.

[19:29] I'm gonna give him a six because he feels B team to me.

[19:31] And also, I'm just gonna say this,

[19:33] I've never been a big fan of the first Halloween.

[19:35] I find it one of those movies that I can watch

[19:37] for historical importance,

[19:38] but it does not do it for me, you know.

[19:41] And I'm actually-

[19:42] Great song, great song.

[19:43] It gets it on the song.

[19:45] The song is more iconic than the killer, I feel like.

[19:48] Halloween by Merciful Fate?

[19:50] Yeah, exactly.

[19:51] Halloween by Merciful Fate.

[19:52] No, the theme from the movie Halloween,

[19:54] the Junk Harbiter theme.

[19:56] Okay, I'm actually gonna drop him down.

[19:58] He's only getting a four from Stuart.

[20:00] I think he already has a strike against him

[20:03] because he doesn't talk,

[20:04] but also I just think he's kind of boring.

[20:06] And a jumpsuit, I mean, come on.

[20:09] I agree that he is boring to me.

[20:12] Yeah, kind of boring.

[20:13] And I feel like one of the reasons why there's been so many

[20:15] is that I feel like a lot of filmmakers

[20:17] are trying to recapture the feel

[20:19] of the first time they saw the first Halloween.

[20:22] And I think they are ignoring

[20:23] what actually makes that thing scary.

[20:26] I don't know, maybe that's a half-formed thought

[20:29] and I'm also pretty sick, so ignore me.

[20:30] No, but I feel like the things around Halloween are scary.

[20:34] Like, the name is a great name.

[20:35] The poster's a great poster.

[20:37] Like, the theme is a scary piece of music.

[20:39] And I think there's a lot of stuff that is,

[20:42] it's like, but at the middle of it is this empty hole

[20:45] or a shape, as he is credited as, that is Michael Myers.

[20:49] I don't know.

[20:50] I feel like at this point your tongues

[20:53] have been too flavor blasted by flashier horror movies.

[20:58] I think that, like, the way that Carpenter uses

[21:01] those big empty frames and has, like,

[21:03] things slowly sort of reveal themselves.

[21:06] Like, if you were, you know, watching it

[21:08] in, like, a dark room.

[21:09] If I was watching it in the late 70s.

[21:10] It would be, yeah.

[21:12] Yeah.

[21:14] But I know that he's got Prince of Darkness

[21:16] coming out of him, so I'm not,

[21:17] I'm like, this is scarier stuff coming from this guy, yeah.

[21:19] So, why don't we do, it's Elliot's time.

[21:21] Why don't you pick a number between one and 14

[21:24] for our lucky dip?

[21:25] 13.

[21:26] 13, okay.

[21:28] This is gonna be a challenge, but possible.

[21:31] On a scale of one to 10, how well do you,

[21:34] or how good do you think Michael Myers would be

[21:36] at writing a career-defining novel?

[21:40] I mean, going for myself, I'm gonna have to give him

[21:41] a one on this one.

[21:43] I feel like he's, I don't feel like he is the,

[21:47] maybe it's just because he doesn't talk.

[21:48] Maybe he's got all those words hemmed up inside,

[21:51] but I think he would have trouble sticking the course

[21:54] and finishing the book.

[21:55] He is relentless, but I don't think in the way

[21:57] that he would just be sitting down

[21:59] and pounding on those pages every day.

[22:01] Now, are you, when you say career-defining-

[22:05] I mean, it could define his career as bad, as a bad writer.

[22:08] Yeah.

[22:09] In which case, a 10.

[22:10] You're defining his career as a writer,

[22:12] or could he write a Roman Aclef

[22:15] and define his career as a murderer, which would be easier?

[22:19] But you know what?

[22:21] I'm gonna give him good marks.

[22:22] I'm gonna say a seven,

[22:23] because he had a lot of life experiences

[22:26] and doesn't talk, so he clearly has a rich inner life.

[22:30] Yeah.

[22:30] He has still waters to run deep, yeah.

[22:32] Yeah, he could draw on his,

[22:34] yeah, you know, I think he's probably thinking in prose.

[22:36] Yeah, and most writers that I know

[22:38] are kind of weirdos anyway.

[22:40] Yeah.

[22:42] Yeah, I'm gonna give him a six.

[22:44] I think there's a decent chance he's got some words in him,

[22:46] but as I said before, I find him kind of boring.

[22:51] Okay, so let's move on to number three.

[22:52] I mean, that's my real worry,

[22:53] is he would be talking about murdering people

[22:54] in a boring way.

[22:56] Yeah, yeah, it'd be too matter-of-fact.

[22:58] Okay, so moving on to our third contestant.

[23:00] That's right, we got Jigsaw from the Saw series.

[23:04] It's a man, but it's also a doll.

[23:06] What?

[23:07] It's a Chucky.

[23:08] Yeah.

[23:09] Kinda, I mean, it's not really,

[23:11] it's not a animated spirit.

[23:13] I feel like it's a guy named John Kramer.

[23:17] Yeah.

[23:19] I saw the most recent Saw, the Saw X.

[23:21] I missed a bunch. You saw Saw.

[23:23] Yeah, I saw Saw X.

[23:25] I missed a bunch in the middle.

[23:27] I'm sorry, this is probably, you know,

[23:29] jumping again and answering a question you may be asking.

[23:31] Get in there, get in there.

[23:32] But part of, like, you know,

[23:35] it's not a series that has been one of mine,

[23:37] but everyone was like, this one's good.

[23:39] And I'm like, all right, you know,

[23:41] I like have this time to kill

[23:44] and I have like, you know, a movie pass.

[23:47] So I watched it and when the doll showed up,

[23:50] it felt like the most kinda.

[23:52] Elliot's head is steaming right now.

[23:55] Yeah, well.

[23:56] Dan's like, hmm, I got nothing to do.

[23:58] I guess we'll just see a movie I don't even wanna see.

[24:01] But no, when the doll shows up and I'm like,

[24:06] this feels like so proformal.

[24:07] Like the doll is just like,

[24:09] Jigsaw's like a prop comic serial killer.

[24:12] It just like happens to have a doll associated with them.

[24:15] It doesn't do anything.

[24:17] Well, like all the, I mean,

[24:19] all the great heavy metal bands pretty much

[24:21] have their mascot that shows up on their albums

[24:23] and Jigsaw's like that.

[24:24] He's got his doll.

[24:25] The doll's just like a character that shows up.

[24:27] It's not like, you know,

[24:29] like Iron Maiden's not singing songs about Eddie,

[24:32] but he's there all the time.

[24:33] He's just around, you know?

[24:35] Yeah, and like John Kramer, the Jigsaw,

[24:40] basically, I think he dies at the end of part three,

[24:43] but he's still killing people way further past that.

[24:46] I feel like your argument about the Chucky movies

[24:50] having a long like continuity in canon,

[24:53] that is the one appeal of the Saw franchise

[24:56] is that they like, it's all treated as like one long story.

[25:00] And Carrie Ellis comes back after a while,

[25:03] which is hilarious.

[25:04] But they do it like so much more clumsily and weirdly,

[25:09] which is like added value if you like that sort of thing.

[25:13] The fun is that it's dumb.

[25:15] Yeah.

[25:16] Like when I watch a long car series,

[25:19] I don't necessarily want a seamless epic tale.

[25:22] Like I kind of want bumps and shudders and jolts

[25:25] and things that don't make sense.

[25:26] No, I know.

[25:27] Something about the Saw series way of doing it

[25:30] is too slipshod for me,

[25:32] whereas like I enjoy the way that the Chucky movies

[25:35] actually kind of elegantly keep it all together.

[25:39] Okay, so on scariness,

[25:42] where does Jigsaw fall for you?

[25:48] I mean, I've seen him from the outside.

[25:52] You know, like I know he's just-

[25:52] You've never been Jigsaw?

[25:55] So you're saying you've been the other characters?

[25:57] I've taken the omniscient view of the film camera.

[26:00] And I know that Jigsaw is just this kind of weak dying guy.

[26:06] You know?

[26:08] And he does these traps rather than killing people.

[26:13] And the traps are like-

[26:14] Yeah, technically he doesn't kill anyone.

[26:16] Yeah, exactly.

[26:18] But they call it-

[26:19] Technically it's the trap he's set up that kills somebody.

[26:22] His hands are clean, officer.

[26:23] There needs to be an entire episode of,

[26:25] or an entire series of like Ryan Murphy bullshit

[26:28] where it's like the people versus John Kramer.

[26:32] Yeah.

[26:33] Well, he has that dumb ass like moral code

[26:36] that makes no sense in a number of ways.

[26:40] So that stuff makes him unscary to me.

[26:42] But if I put myself in the viewpoint

[26:45] of like someone in one of these traps,

[26:46] I think that would probably freak me out

[26:48] more than anything else.

[26:50] If you're gonna apply, are you afraid of the dark logic?

[26:54] Which as I've said before,

[26:55] when me and my brother's sister would watch

[26:57] Are You Afraid of the Dark on Nickelodeon,

[26:58] we'd be like, well, it's not scary to watch.

[27:00] But if it was happening to us,

[27:01] we'd be scared if that was happening.

[27:03] That's the premise of all horror movies.

[27:05] No, but horror movies should be like,

[27:07] oh, it's scary to watch.

[27:08] And if you were there, it's scary.

[27:10] Yeah, but we're not talking about that.

[27:12] We're talking about, do you find this character,

[27:14] do you find Jigsaw scary?

[27:16] Well, that's why I'm gonna split the difference

[27:18] and I'm gonna give him a five.

[27:20] Okay, Elliot.

[27:21] I'm gonna give him a one.

[27:22] I haven't seen most of the Saw movies.

[27:25] I just don't, I don't find him personally very scary.

[27:28] And there's something about,

[27:30] I've never been a big fan of like trap stuff.

[27:33] I feel like this episode so far has made me

[27:34] talk about things I don't like

[27:35] as opposed to things I like.

[27:36] But the idea, I like someone who gets his hands dirty,

[27:40] as opposed to someone who's just like,

[27:42] I've set up an intricate series of events

[27:45] that if they go right, you'll die.

[27:47] And you probably will.

[27:48] Because at a certain point, they're just Arcade,

[27:51] who is an X-Men villain that I like,

[27:53] even though he is terrible at his job.

[27:55] Everyone always escapes.

[27:56] His stuff he does is way too over elaborate.

[27:59] And that makes it less scary to me.

[28:01] Yeah.

[28:02] Yeah, you gotta assume he's got a failure kink.

[28:05] I'm about to tread on what I assume

[28:08] is well-trod stand-up ground from a decade or more ago.

[28:13] But like, I see the traps-

[28:14] What's the deal with Barack Obama?

[28:15] Well, yeah.

[28:17] No, I see the traps.

[28:17] I'm like, where does he find the time?

[28:20] He's like, especially as like a weak, dying man.

[28:23] Says the guy who saw X in the theater.

[28:27] Yeah, Dan, if anyone knows how much time

[28:28] a human can have on their hands, it's you.

[28:31] Not to bring it back to X-Men,

[28:32] but that's something I've been thinking about a lot lately,

[28:33] is whenever you see Apocalypse or Mr. Sinister

[28:36] in like their lair, and it's full of huge computer screens,

[28:39] and there's all these elaborate consoles,

[28:40] I'm like, so was he just there with a drill,

[28:43] and a screwdriver, and a soldering iron,

[28:45] just making that by himself for weeks?

[28:47] Yeah.

[28:48] Yeah, of course.

[28:48] I mean, if he has contractors,

[28:49] then of course he has to kill them afterwards.

[28:51] Of course, yeah.

[28:52] And they were like, well, this alien technology

[28:54] is kinda hard to come by, Apocalypse.

[28:55] It's gonna take us a few more weeks

[28:57] than we thought it would.

[28:58] Ugh, I was supposed to be kidnapping the X-Men

[29:00] like two days ago, and you're still not done yet?

[29:03] No, it's gonna take some time.

[29:05] Hey, hey, pay me now, pay me later.

[29:07] I can leave right now, and you're just gonna have

[29:09] to bring me back to fix it.

[29:10] Okay, all right.

[29:11] Survival of the fittest, et cetera.

[29:13] Anyway.

[29:14] Apocalypse, you can get it done well,

[29:16] you can get it done fast, or you can get it done cheap.

[29:18] You can only get two of those things, though.

[29:20] Okay, so I'm kinda with you guys,

[29:25] although honestly, I'm kinda scared of traps.

[29:27] As much as I love games, I would hate for those games

[29:29] to result in me dying,

[29:31] because I'm not actually good at games.

[29:33] So I'm gonna give Jigsaw a six.

[29:35] Now, star power, I think we're all in agreement.

[29:38] Not a lot of star power there for Mr. Jigsaw.

[29:40] No, no, I don't think so, no.

[29:41] Although there is a part in a later Saw movie

[29:43] where John Kramer shows up at like

[29:45] a serial killer convention or something

[29:46] wearing a baseball hat on backwards.

[29:49] That's super cool.

[29:50] I mean, cash Jigsaw, but I think any,

[29:54] if the character is upstaged by his doll

[29:58] that doesn't actually do anything.

[30:00] then I think that character has low star power, yeah.

[30:02] Yeah, yeah, that's the problem.

[30:04] They split the star power between a doll and an old guy.

[30:11] And I gotta say, Tobin Bell is a-

[30:12] It's like if Freddy was better,

[30:14] Freddy was not as well known as his car, you know?

[30:17] Yeah.

[30:18] That's what it feels like to me, yeah.

[30:19] Tobin Bell is a charismatic actor, though,

[30:22] and I think that in the series, I don't know,

[30:27] I mean, this most recent one, he does look very old,

[30:31] so that combined with actually supposed to be dying

[30:35] makes him a little less alarming to me

[30:38] as a physical threat.

[30:39] But I'll give him a two for personal charisma.

[30:43] That might make it a little scarier to me,

[30:44] as he's a specter of the harbinger of age,

[30:46] which waits for us all, if we're lucky.

[30:48] Yeah, that's true.

[30:50] I'm giving him a one, he's not that scary to me.

[30:52] Dan gives him a two.

[30:52] Elliot, what are you giving?

[30:54] I'm gonna give him a one.

[30:55] Okay, so lucky dip, Dan,

[30:57] give me a number between one and 14.

[31:00] Nine.

[31:02] Number nine.

[31:02] Uh-oh, this is actually,

[31:04] I think he's gonna be good at this.

[31:05] On a scale of one to 10,

[31:07] how well do you think Jigsaw would be

[31:09] at managing a restaurant?

[31:11] Oh!

[31:12] Yeah, I'll give him a 10 for that, for sure.

[31:14] Yeah, 10.

[31:14] He's all about administration,

[31:16] he's all about delegation, of course.

[31:19] Yeah, he inspires legions of acolytes, apparently,

[31:23] so put him in a managerial role.

[31:27] Yeah.

[31:28] He's gonna shoot up a corporate ladder on that,

[31:29] he'll be running mannequins in no time.

[31:33] He doesn't even have to be there,

[31:34] he does most of his work remote, it's amazing.

[31:38] So as the head of the McDonald's Corporation,

[31:40] as CEO, you're appointing a dead man,

[31:43] a man who died years ago?

[31:45] He's just that good.

[31:46] Just watch this tape.

[31:46] Can you inspire?

[31:47] Yeah.

[31:48] You'll be convinced.

[31:49] Okay, so that's, Dan, I'm guessing that's a 10 from you?

[31:54] Yeah, yeah.

[31:55] Oh man, he crushed it, he gets a 10 from me, wow.

[31:58] Yeah, that lucky dip really kind of brought him back.

[32:00] Wow, yeah.

[32:01] Okay, our next one comes from beyond the stars,

[32:03] our next villain is the Predator.

[32:05] That's right, an alien hunter.

[32:08] Obviously, you guys have seen some Predator movies, right?

[32:12] Sure, sure.

[32:13] Yeah.

[32:14] I think I've seen all of them except Predators,

[32:16] the one with Adrian Brody, I still haven't seen that one.

[32:19] I saw that one, but not the other one,

[32:21] not the Shane Black one, I didn't see.

[32:23] The, oh right, you know what?

[32:24] I didn't see that one either.

[32:25] So that's, there's the two, except it's weird when the,

[32:28] it's weird when Predator's a character

[32:29] who's been around for 40 years at this point, almost,

[32:33] and the best movie that he was in was the most recent one,

[32:37] that it took that long for him to be

[32:38] in a really good movie, in Prey.

[32:41] It's great, yeah, Prey's great.

[32:43] Yeah.

[32:44] Guys, I'm realizing something disturbing about myself

[32:47] in that I have seen all of the Predator movies,

[32:50] and it's not even a franchise I particularly care for, but.

[32:54] Yeah.

[32:57] Maybe Elliot's been right all these years.

[33:00] Elliot, what should I be spending my time on?

[33:02] I mean, things that inspire or uplift you,

[33:04] things that touch your emotions.

[33:06] It's a little bit of a hit and miss,

[33:07] you don't always know what's gonna create that reaction.

[33:09] Sure.

[33:10] But often, if you, forgetting what TLC says,

[33:13] if you do stick to the livers and rakes

[33:18] that you're used to, you're just raking up those livers

[33:19] like you're used to, then you're not gonna experience

[33:21] anything new or fresh, you gotta chase new things.

[33:24] That's why, if I see a movie, at this point,

[33:28] I'm more excited to watch an old foreign movie

[33:30] I don't know anything about than the latest chapter

[33:33] in a franchise that I'm familiar with,

[33:35] even one that I like.

[33:36] I've started reading more again,

[33:39] I'm reading The Three-Body Problem.

[33:41] Great.

[33:41] Oh, cool, how do you like it?

[33:43] Good.

[33:43] A little disappointed you thought it was about a threesome?

[33:45] How do they lock them all together

[33:48] in the right configuration?

[33:49] That's a three-body problem.

[33:50] Guys, I've started reading romance novels.

[33:54] Oh, yeah.

[33:55] Good, that's fantastic.

[33:55] You know, I like to change it up.

[33:58] Can't all be fantasy and sci-fi.

[34:00] No, and meanwhile, I should talk,

[34:01] I'm now rereading the longest book I've ever read,

[34:03] The Power Broker, for an upcoming project

[34:06] that it looks like I'll be working on.

[34:08] That's a little teaser for later, maybe.

[34:10] But that is the most not chasing waterfalls it could be,

[34:14] is reading a huge book that I know will take me a while

[34:16] that I've already read.

[34:17] Yeah, it's the Power Stroker, your porn parody.

[34:21] Yes.

[34:22] So, I invented this device.

[34:26] You won't believe what I call it.

[34:29] So, do you want me to do, how are we gonna do this?

[34:31] Parkway or expressway?

[34:35] Now, why do you express on the parkway?

[34:40] You're semen, I mean.

[34:42] But you don't park on the expressway,

[34:44] except, but if you could park,

[34:46] if he says if he could park butt this way,

[34:48] that's how he does it, yeah.

[34:50] Anyway, I can't think of a porn name for Robert Moses.

[34:53] I can't think of it, so.

[34:56] Robert Blow This.

[34:57] Anyway, so it starts with Robert Blow This.

[34:59] Slobbert Blows Us.

[35:01] Yeah, Robert Blow This or Robert Do This, yeah.

[35:04] Robert Does Us.

[35:06] So, The Predator, where do we fall on this guy?

[35:11] The Predator, how scary?

[35:13] I think he is, he's one where,

[35:16] I think he's scary in capability

[35:18] until he gets beaten at the end in every one.

[35:21] And also, scary in appearance.

[35:23] He's got a creepy crab face, you know?

[35:27] And so, I'm gonna give him an,

[35:31] Seems like a weird shaming, but that's okay.

[35:34] Well, except I'm not, it's okay, he's not real.

[35:35] But except that, he's not that,

[35:38] you know what, but he's not that scary.

[35:39] It's not like I'm watching the movie

[35:41] and I'm like, uh-oh, I'm scared.

[35:42] So actually, forget what I just said.

[35:44] Again, I'm just thinking about if he was chasing me.

[35:46] If he was chasing me, 10 out of 10 scary.

[35:48] But watching the movie, I give him maybe a four

[35:51] for scariness, but he's an action adventure monster.

[35:54] Yeah, there's an overwhelming force from him.

[35:58] Yeah.

[35:59] He is so much better at hunting you

[36:02] than you are at running away from him.

[36:04] Yes, like a dentist on vacation

[36:07] shooting an elderly lion in a cage.

[36:10] It feels very unfair the way

[36:11] the Predator hunts its human victims.

[36:15] He's so imposing and the design is good,

[36:19] if a little too humanoid for me.

[36:21] That's one of the problems I have with Predator.

[36:23] But like, that is frightening as a design.

[36:28] But like Elliot, I don't get that scared

[36:30] watching the movies at all.

[36:32] So I'll put him at a five, actually.

[36:35] Put him at a five.

[36:36] I still find him pretty, I find him fairly scary.

[36:40] And so I'm gonna give him a seven.

[36:43] He's this like overwhelming enemy

[36:45] that has a collection of wonderful toys.

[36:49] So we're, I think this is a pretty good time.

[36:51] Now that we're talking about wonderful toys,

[36:52] I think it's a perfect time for us

[36:54] to have a little word from our sponsors.

[36:58] Thanks.

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[38:20] I've got some Flophouse show things to tell people about.

[38:23] And then one personal thing.

[38:25] So tickets may still be available

[38:27] when this episode comes out

[38:28] for our October 19th shows at Vidiots in Los Angeles.

[38:31] Vidiots is a great venue.

[38:33] I really love it.

[38:34] It's a special one.

[38:36] It's very beloved here in LA.

[38:38] And I'm excited to be there.

[38:40] We're gonna be doing two shows.

[38:41] 6 p.m. we're talking about Speed 2.

[38:43] At 8.45 p.m. we're talking Three Men and a Baby

[38:45] with our special baby guest, Hallie Haglund.

[38:48] The star of the show will be joining us live on stage.

[38:51] Go to vidiotsfoundation.org.

[38:53] Both of those shows will be totally original shows,

[38:56] new presentations, new talk,

[38:58] nothing the same in between them

[38:59] except the same three lovable Flophouse dudes.

[39:03] Go to vidiotsfoundation.org.

[39:05] I think tickets may still be available when this comes.

[39:08] We're also recording this just a few days

[39:10] after our most recent episode of Flop TV,

[39:12] our online broadcast show.

[39:14] We talked about Hot Dog, the movie,

[39:16] and Hamburger, the motion picture.

[39:17] It was a lot of fun.

[39:18] I got so mad talking about Hamburger, the motion picture.

[39:21] And Dan taught us all about a movie

[39:24] that somehow sounds even worse than that one.

[39:26] Did you miss the episode?

[39:28] Don't worry.

[39:28] If you buy a season pass to Flop TV,

[39:30] you will still get access to all the episodes we've aired

[39:33] as well as to new episodes when they come out.

[39:36] Our next new episode will be the first Saturday in November

[39:39] when we are talking Over the Top,

[39:41] greatest sports movie ever made, possibly.

[39:44] We're gonna find out.

[39:45] It's Over the Top, first Saturday of November.

[39:47] I'm really excited about it.

[39:49] Go to theflophouse.simpletics.com.

[39:52] That's theflophouse.simpletics.com

[39:55] to get tickets to individual shows or a season pass.

[39:58] Thank you so much for watching.

[40:00] I hope you save a little bit.

[40:01] And as always.

[40:00] It gives you access to all those old episodes.

[40:03] Before we get back to Stuart's horror monster power rankings, I want to mention that I have

[40:07] a comic book series that's currently in stores now.

[40:09] I was not promoting it during the strike because it is a corporate-owned IP, but the strike

[40:13] is over.

[40:14] Time for me to promote it.

[40:15] This series is called Hades.

[40:17] It's from Dynamite Comics.

[40:18] It is a five-issue series featuring Hades, the villain from Disney's Hercules movie.

[40:24] Hades is back on the prowl for evil.

[40:28] It's not a dating story then.

[40:34] It is a heist story.

[40:35] Hades has decided he wants the power of the Golden Fleece so he can get back at the Olympian

[40:39] gods and he assembles his own little team of heisters, Orpheus, Arachne, Icarus, and

[40:44] the Minotaur to help him get that stuff.

[40:48] There's twists, turns, betrayals.

[40:49] There's lots of Greek mythological characters.

[40:52] I had a lot of fun doing it.

[40:53] The artist is by Alessandro Analdi, who does a fantastic job with it.

[40:56] It's super fun.

[40:58] The first two issues have come out.

[40:59] Number three comes out October 25th.

[41:01] It will be five issues in total, and that is Hades from Dynamite Comics, written by

[41:05] me.

[41:06] And yeah, I'm glad that was the personal information that you had.

[41:10] You said you had a personal announcement.

[41:11] I'm like, oh no, he's going to be like, I've decided to quit the Flophouse to go back to

[41:16] medical school.

[41:17] I have a personal announcement.

[41:18] I have faked my own death in order to abandon my family.

[41:21] I now live in South America.

[41:23] Do not look for me.

[41:24] Wow, you're doing this weird, but...

[41:34] Co-Optober continues in celebration of National Co-Op Month.

[41:38] I'm Paulmarie Mounisse, producer and a worker-owner at MaxFun.

[41:41] I'm Jesus Ambrosio, producer, and I'm also a worker-owner at MaxFun.

[41:46] This week is all about community.

[41:48] Of course, we couldn't be a co-op without the MaxFun community, and we love it whenever

[41:52] members of our audience get together.

[41:54] So we're having another MaxFun Meetup this Thursday, October 12th.

[41:57] And next week we'll be hosting a panel discussion with other worker-owners across the co-op

[42:02] community.

[42:03] And we are still selling our limited edition Launch Crew merch available to all MaxFun

[42:07] members.

[42:08] But only through the end of the month.

[42:09] For more info on Meetup Day and everything Co-Optober, head to MaximumFun.org slash

[42:15] Co-Optober.

[42:16] That's C-O-O-P-T-O-B-E-R.

[42:20] Have a great week!

[42:23] Okay, and we're back.

[42:25] Now we're currently ranking the Predator.

[42:29] The Predator monster.

[42:30] What is it?

[42:31] A Yautja or Yautja, whatever that alien race is called.

[42:34] You know what?

[42:35] I don't think I've ever known.

[42:36] Yeah.

[42:37] It's an Oakja.

[42:38] Yep.

[42:39] Oh, it's an Oakja.

[42:40] It's Jodas Winton and Jake Gyllenhaal.

[42:41] So it's a super cute little big pig.

[42:43] Sure.

[42:44] Yeah.

[42:45] That should have been the tagline.

[42:46] I remember that movie, Little Big Pig.

[42:47] Yeah.

[42:48] That's a phrase I wish I could take credit for.

[42:50] That's a phrase that my kids use a lot to describe things.

[42:52] If we're ever doing Mad Libs, I'll be like, noun.

[42:55] And they'll go, little big pig.

[42:57] Now, do you imagine Dustin Hoffman's face on that pig?

[43:01] Yeah.

[43:02] Incredibly elderly pig who lived out west.

[43:05] Yeah.

[43:06] Uh-huh.

[43:07] And then James Cromwell's like, that'll do, little big pig.

[43:12] Okay, so we're ranking the Predator.

[43:14] We have already ranked it on scariness.

[43:16] Time to rank it on, uh-oh, star power.

[43:20] How much of a star is the Predator?

[43:22] He's got cool dreadlocks and a mask sometimes.

[43:25] A variety of weapons.

[43:27] He wears fishnets like a-

[43:29] All over, like Cher.

[43:30] Yeah.

[43:31] He was a fishnet body stocking like Cher in the Turn Back Time video.

[43:35] Yeah, I'm into it.

[43:37] You have to imagine the Predator is always showing up after a Rocky Horror Picture screening

[43:42] where he's gone as Frank N. Ferger and now he's out killing people, you know.

[43:46] Maybe if he was asked, he'd be like, actually, I was dressing up like a bag of oranges.

[43:54] It's just an easy Halloween costume you could do around the house.

[43:57] Yeah, be a bag of oranges.

[43:59] Okay, so guys, star power for the Pred Head.

[44:01] What do we do?

[44:02] I mean, like you said, got a lot of flair.

[44:04] Got a lot of wonderful toys.

[44:06] I also think that, you know, other than like maybe the crab mouth, Predator is one of the monsters.

[44:15] We've talked about that.

[44:16] I could more plausibly see someone thinking he's sexy because it's just a big, like beefy guy, basically.

[44:21] Alien.

[44:22] Oh, yeah.

[44:23] He's not skipping leg day.

[44:24] Oh, no.

[44:26] Again, maybe not my series, but I'm going to give an eight for star power.

[44:31] Okay.

[44:32] So here's the thing.

[44:34] Normally, I feel similar to, similar with Chucky in a way where it's like Predator for so many years was a real all-Saran kind of second tier one of these.

[44:43] After, I'm sure we'll get to him at some point, the Xenomorph, which is, I'll just spoil, for me is kind of the king of all these monsters in a way.

[44:51] But again, just like Sondheim wrote in his song about the Predator, I'm still here.

[44:57] Like the Predator clawed his way up to being a top draw, and I really got to give him credit for that.

[45:03] Some stars are born and some are made, and the Predator made himself a star.

[45:07] So I'm going to give him, I think, a nine.

[45:10] Not bad.

[45:11] I'm going to say, you know, I feel like the Predator, his look is a little too busy for me.

[45:16] I do like the clicks, and I like the other sound effects, like the sound effect when you, like, see his, like, his thermal vision.

[45:24] I also like his little, like, three laser sight thing.

[45:29] I think that's pretty cool.

[45:30] But again, there's a lot going on.

[45:32] I'm going to drop him down to an eight because whenever he's using his claw hands to press the buttons on his wrist controller, it looks silly.

[45:39] That looks silly to me.

[45:40] Yeah.

[45:41] Yeah.

[45:42] It seems, yeah.

[45:43] So I'm only giving him a six.

[45:44] So I'm sorry, Predator.

[45:45] You lost me a little here, buddy.

[45:48] Now, Elliot, Elliot, can you pick a number between one and 14 for the lucky dip?

[45:55] I'm going to say two.

[45:57] Two.

[45:58] Okay.

[45:59] This is an interesting twist.

[46:01] On a scale of one to ten, how likely are you to invite the Predator to a nice restaurant?

[46:08] Arguably one run by Jigsaw.

[46:11] I mean, if it's the Jigsaw restaurant, maybe.

[46:14] I'm going to say one for two reasons.

[46:16] One, I don't know if he's on the hunt, which would make it an awkward meal.

[46:20] And also I don't want to watch him sticking food in that crab mouth.

[46:23] I'm sorry.

[46:24] I don't mean to be face shaming him, but I don't.

[46:26] We have a pet crayfish in our house.

[46:28] I watch that eat, and it is frightening.

[46:30] It's frightening and grotesque.

[46:31] It's the worst.

[46:32] Yeah.

[46:33] I saw a crab eat, like, a pinky once, you know, like a little baby hairless mouse.

[46:37] And it did it from the back.

[46:39] So the thing was still alive for most of the meal.

[46:42] It was the worst.

[46:43] And I think the crab knew what was happening and was like, I'm doing this to freak you out.

[46:47] It's very possible.

[46:48] I could see the Predator doing that.

[46:50] I don't know why the restaurant is serving him live pinkies.

[46:52] Maybe that's what he ordered.

[46:53] That's true.

[46:54] Why'd they put that on the menu?

[46:57] Yeah.

[46:58] You know, I think that there's, like, going to be a lot of destruction if you take a Predator

[47:01] to a restaurant.

[47:02] That's a number one concern other than, like, the Predator killing me.

[47:07] You know, that's a number one, double-A number one concern, I guess.

[47:13] But so don't want to hang out with someone who wants to kill me.

[47:18] A lot of destruction.

[47:20] Because of some ambiguity in the wording, would you invite a Predator to a nice restaurant?

[47:26] I'd say, what if the scenario is you're tricking the Predator into a restaurant you filled

[47:31] with explosives so to end this hunt, this game?

[47:35] Yeah, right.

[47:36] I guess in that situation, that unlikely situation.

[47:39] So, you know, for that very unlikely situation, I'll give it a two.

[47:43] That bumps it up from one.

[47:46] I don't remember what I said the Predator was in terms of scariness, but I want to mention

[47:50] I think the Predator's scariness involves context.

[47:52] In the jungle in the first movie, I don't find him that scary.

[47:56] But in Predator 2, which is a bonkers, not good, incredibly racist movie that doesn't

[48:01] make any sense.

[48:02] He's much scarier in an urban setting.

[48:04] There's something about the fact that he can be going after regular bystanders.

[48:08] That is very scary to me.

[48:10] As opposed to the jungle where it's like, well, I'm never going to be on a black ops

[48:13] mission in Latin America, you know, with my mercenary team.

[48:17] You know, so I'm not that's not as scary to me, you know.

[48:20] I don't know.

[48:21] I feel like he could be like the quiet religious guy who goes crazy.

[48:25] Thank you.

[48:26] I appreciate that.

[48:27] Yeah.

[48:28] Yeah.

[48:29] Yeah.

[48:30] I, you know, I'm going to give I'm going to be a little higher.

[48:33] I'm going to say I'm going to give the Predator a three because, you know, when you stroll

[48:38] into that nice restaurant with a Predator on your arm, you're going to be turning some

[48:41] heads.

[48:42] That's true.

[48:43] We're going to be looking at you a little different dress to impress.

[48:46] OK, so we are now moving on to our fifth horror villain.

[48:51] And this is a little bit of an outlier because this this monster doesn't have a franchise.

[48:56] We are talking about the Babadook.

[48:58] Oh, my God.

[49:00] Icon Babadook.

[49:02] I love it.

[49:03] One is an ironic gay icon and just became just became one.

[49:07] The Babadook, which, yeah, Jennifer Kent, the director, specifically put in the contract

[49:13] that could not have sequels made.

[49:16] So, yeah.

[49:17] One and done.

[49:18] Very smart.

[49:19] And then she made one of the most soul scouring movies I've ever seen.

[49:22] The Nightingale.

[49:23] I still have not been able to bring myself to watch.

[49:26] Oh, OK.

[49:27] So the Babadook on terms of scariness.

[49:30] Have you guys seen the Babadook?

[49:31] Yes.

[49:32] Yeah.

[49:33] OK.

[49:34] The Babadook.

[49:35] Seen it.

[49:36] It's a great movie.

[49:37] Yeah.

[49:38] Scary.

[49:39] I'd start.

[49:40] I'm give it.

[49:41] The thing is, I'm going to give it a 10 in terms of scariness.

[49:42] The movie.

[49:43] The scariest scene in that movie to me is the one where she is in the car and her son

[49:46] is flipping out and she cannot get him to calm down.

[49:49] That is so much scarier to me than anything the Babadook does, except for the part where

[49:52] she pulls her own tooth out.

[49:53] That's again, it feels like the humans are scarier to me than the Babadook in that movie.

[49:57] But the Babadook is making them do it.

[49:58] So.

[50:00] I'll give the Babadook an assist on that.

[50:02] Yeah.

[50:03] So my rating comes with levels.

[50:06] This is sort of like the galaxy brain meme.

[50:09] Sure.

[50:10] Okay.

[50:11] So like the first level is, fuck man, that Babadook in that movie is pretty god damn

[50:16] scary.

[50:17] All right.

[50:18] You go one above that level and you're like, yes, but the moral spoiler of the Babadook

[50:25] is like, she learns to live with it, like she integrates it into her life, like by not

[50:30] letting the fear take over.

[50:33] And it's just sort of a general metaphor for like the depression, you know, the bad feeling

[50:40] that we all have to live with.

[50:43] And then so like, maybe it's not that scary because that's a good message and you can

[50:47] live with it.

[50:48] But then the galaxy brain sort of thing is like, it's so much scarier to think about

[50:54] the fact that you have to just do this hard work of actually dealing with problems for

[51:01] your whole life.

[51:02] So there's no, there's no magic spell or artifact that is going to shoot the Babadook into a

[51:10] portal and you don't have to deal with him again.

[51:12] Yeah.

[51:13] Yeah.

[51:14] There's no like a reverse summoning ritual that you can perform that gets rid of the

[51:18] Babadook.

[51:19] You have to deal with it forever.

[51:21] Yeah.

[51:22] And hopefully the noise quiets a little bit.

[51:25] I'm going to add in, I'm going to, there's a little bit extra scary about the Babadook

[51:29] because I have to assume this is the case that the visual is so, is so informed by kind

[51:37] of minstrelry iconography, the top hat and the like, the exaggerated features and things

[51:43] like that.

[51:44] So there, the scariness of institutional racism and cultural racism is also kind of, is kind

[51:50] of built into that, into that creature, that guy.

[51:53] On the other hand, on the other hand, you got to imagine the Babadook hand crafting

[51:58] those picture books that he leaves behind.

[52:00] And that is less scary to me.

[52:01] The idea of a monster involved in handicrafts is less scary to me.

[52:05] This is actually the, so not to say that there aren't, you know, overtones of what you're

[52:11] saying, Elliot, because I can see where it comes from, but, uh, is my understanding that

[52:16] the Babadook's look was directly, uh, inspired by this film that I just looked up, uh, the

[52:22] man in the beaver hat in London after midnight, or sorry, London after midnight is the film

[52:27] and the man with Lon Chaney, and here we see, oh, you know what, maybe it's a total coincidence

[52:33] because he does look like Lon Chaney in London after midnight, but except, I don't know about

[52:37] that.

[52:38] I don't know if I totally buy that actually.

[52:39] I mean, it could be a touch of, uh, yours and a little bit of both.

[52:45] Yeah.

[52:46] Uh, yeah.

[52:47] I'm giving, I'm giving them a 10 Babadook.

[52:48] That's a, that's a scary one.

[52:50] There's a, uh, yeah, super scary.

[52:52] So, uh, and I think, uh, I think Elliot's kind of, uh, ranking also ties in with this

[52:58] next part star power.

[53:00] How much star power does this Babadook have?

[53:02] I feel like for having only one movie and how well it's entered the cultural consciousness

[53:08] a little bit, it's pretty scary.

[53:09] That's some, that's some solid, that's some stars, star power.

[53:13] And super star power, I would give him a 10 on star power.

[53:16] And also it takes you back to when those, when these movies were young, like when, when

[53:21] horror movies in the old days, you didn't expect a character would have a whole franchise

[53:26] like, and they were scary characters.

[53:28] Like you look at Bill Lugosi's Dracula, he plays that character in two movies, 14 years

[53:34] apart or something like that.

[53:36] He's in Dracula and then he's in Adam Costello meet Frankenstein.

[53:40] And otherwise I don't know that he's on screen as Dracula at all in between those two.

[53:45] I might be forgetting something, but I don't think so.

[53:47] And like, that's, that's iconic star power when you, when you can, when you can establish

[53:51] that with one movie and that's the way you used to have to do it.

[53:54] So yeah, Babadook 10 out of 10 for star power.

[53:57] Yeah.

[53:58] Uh, I'm going to ding the Babadook a little for not having maybe the same man on the street

[54:05] appeal as Jason.

[54:07] If you're going to like ask someone to like, do you know a horror thing?

[54:10] Uh, he's, well, he's like the Parker Posey of monsters where it's like in the right community.

[54:16] He's a huge star.

[54:17] Yeah.

[54:18] I agree on Twitter.

[54:19] People know all about him.

[54:21] This is coming from a Judy Greer lover, like, like Dan McCoy too, especially, well, that's

[54:26] what I'm saying for the, for the, for the memes, for the, uh, gay icon Ness for the

[54:33] fact that people can like talk about the Babadook and people know what it means.

[54:37] And the Babadook is such a funny word to say that it ends up in a lot of jokes, you know,

[54:44] I'll still go, uh, you know, I'd still, you know, I'm, I'm being held back by the man

[54:51] on the street.

[54:52] My, my imagined man on the street who may be very different than my prejudices, but

[54:56] I'm going to say eight.

[55:00] Still very high for, for, uh, for a character from, uh, what New Zealand movie with no,

[55:06] no famous stars in it, at least no famous American stars.

[55:09] That's pretty high.

[55:10] That's high.

[55:11] Uh, and I'm, I'm giving the Babadook a nine, uh, again, because, uh, it's one of the biggest

[55:16] lessons is you leave them wanting more.

[55:20] You want, you want more of that Babadook.

[55:22] You only get a taste.

[55:23] It's so much scarier and so much more impressive, like it's just so much more of an impact that

[55:27] you know, that he's left living in that basement, right.

[55:31] Or closet, whatever it is with that family, having to deal with him as we all have our

[55:34] Babadooks that we have to deal with rather than like Babadook to now, some teenagers

[55:39] go from America, go to the New Zealand coast for the spring break and the Babadook shows

[55:44] up like the same way that pinhead Babadooks down.

[55:48] I'm sure we'll talk about pinhead at some point, but pinhead becomes increasingly less

[55:51] scary and less ominous and, uh, and, uh, imposing the more you see him just hanging

[55:57] around talking to people and doing stuff, you know?

[56:00] Yeah.

[56:01] And by that, by that last one, where pinhead has three roommates and they, and they've

[56:05] got it and they're like, Oh, we've got, my boss is coming over for dinner.

[56:08] Can you, you guys have to help me pretend that I don't have any roommates in that hell

[56:12] razor six.

[56:13] I hope, I wish I didn't have roommates.

[56:15] That's by then pinhead has lost all, you know, I lost all this mystique.

[56:18] We'll save your pinhead talk for later.

[56:20] Spoiler alert.

[56:22] Okay.

[56:23] So we are now into the lucky Dick dip category for the Babadook Dan, give me a number between

[56:26] one and 14.

[56:27] No doubles.

[56:28] You can't double it up.

[56:30] Seven.

[56:31] Seven.

[56:32] Okay.

[56:33] How well on a scale of one to 10, do you think the Babadook could plan a retirement party?

[56:40] Oh boy, this is, this is a tough one.

[56:47] This one.

[56:48] Can I go first?

[56:49] Dan, can I go first?

[56:50] Yeah, sure.

[56:51] I'm going to give him an eight on this because one again, good with crafts too.

[56:56] He's good at getting to know people.

[56:58] He can make a personalized children's book pop-up book.

[57:01] I think, right.

[57:02] For everybody.

[57:03] I feel like he's going to do, he's going to be like, here's what's going to be special

[57:06] and really get at the heart of this person who's retiring.

[57:09] We're going to make some things to put around and he is good at getting, he's good at getting

[57:13] people to do things that maybe they don't want to do, like almost kill a dog and pull

[57:18] their own tooth out.

[57:19] Maybe even people who don't want to get involved in this retirement party, he's going to be

[57:21] able to get them to do it.

[57:23] Yeah.

[57:24] I mean, I think, I think I, the crafts angle is good.

[57:26] I haven't thought of it like the Babadook is definitely a creature with an aesthetic.

[57:31] So there's that.

[57:34] And you know, there's something uniquely sort of keyed into middle-aged and elderly emotional

[57:42] concerns about the Babadook to me, like, it seems like the Babadook is a creature that

[57:47] maybe bedevils you only once you've reached a certain point in your life and can reflect

[57:52] on yourself with a certain amount of emotional maturity.

[57:57] And so that might come into play.

[57:59] So I'm going to say a seven.

[58:00] Yeah.

[58:01] Yeah.

[58:02] Elliot, what was your number?

[58:03] What was your number on that one?

[58:04] I said eight.

[58:05] Eight.

[58:06] I'm, I'm going to go with Elliot on this one.

[58:08] I think an eight, the Babadook also, I feel like can really connect with people that are

[58:12] also considering the, the fears of getting older and age.

[58:15] I think there's something about that.

[58:17] So, uh, yeah, the Babadook, not a bad, not a bad score for.

[58:20] He's going to do a good job putting the party together, but at some point he will say something

[58:23] tactless to the subject of the party.

[58:25] Yes.

[58:26] That's why he doesn't get higher marks.

[58:27] Yeah.

[58:28] Yeah.

[58:29] Okay.

[58:30] So our next, uh, our next villain, I think you already, uh, you already guessed it.

[58:33] The leader of the Cenobites himself, Pinhead, originally performed by Doug Bradley in the

[58:38] early Hellraiser movies.

[58:40] And then, uh, did he play Pinhead up until the recent reboot?

[58:45] I thought so, but I could be wrong about that.

[58:47] Now at least two of those are good movies.

[58:50] There's a few that are not so good, not as a great, uh, have you guys seen all the Hellraiser

[58:56] movies?

[58:57] There's so many of these and they get so bad, like, like three is still passable, but then

[59:03] I feel like it, it takes a dive off the cliff.

[59:05] Yeah.

[59:06] After, after two, I've never been able to, to get myself, uh, I've never been able to

[59:09] get my ass to Mars and, uh, and watch the rest of them.

[59:12] I, I still have some affection for which one is that Hellraiser Inferno.

[59:17] I think that was the one by the guy who made Sinister, um, that feels like a, it feels

[59:23] like a nice little, like self-contained story that is in the like Hellraiser universe as

[59:29] opposed to just like a, like a sloppy, like, you know, like slasher clone that just happens

[59:34] with Pinheads.

[59:35] Um, but yeah, the first two, obviously they're the wettest horror movies you're ever going

[59:40] to see.

[59:42] Yeah.

[59:43] They're so fucking great.

[59:44] And like, arguably Julia is one of the like all time horror movie villains.

[59:49] What a great character.

[59:50] Oh, it's so awesome.

[59:51] A movie about a woman bringing a guy back from the dead because she is so horny for

[59:57] her husband's brother.

[59:58] Oh, it's great.

[1:00:00] Amazing thing about Hellraiser is they turned Pinhead into kind of like a Freddy or Jason

[1:00:07] type when he's such a side part of that first Hellraiser movie.

[1:00:12] It's not about him.

[1:00:13] He's just a glimpse of the horrors that exist beyond our dimension.

[1:00:18] And that first one's only like 85 minutes or something.

[1:00:20] It's like so tight.

[1:00:22] Yeah, it's short.

[1:00:25] I feel like there are times when even at that length I'm like, all right, Hellraiser, you

[1:00:29] can keep going.

[1:00:30] But I don't need this montage of her bringing men home and killing them.

[1:00:33] But even just the idea that like that he's he's coming back to life in stages, you know,

[1:00:39] and they're at it.

[1:00:40] He's got to add more and more layers of skin and muscle, you know, the effects, the effects

[1:00:44] are still great.

[1:00:45] Like, yeah, it's gorgeous.

[1:00:48] But I think we're talking about the movie and not talking about Pinhead.

[1:00:51] Yeah.

[1:00:52] So in terms of scariness, how scary is Pinhead?

[1:00:56] I'm of two minds about this, because on the one hand, I find Pinhead's deal sort of confusing,

[1:01:04] which which doesn't doesn't scare me like ambiguity can be scary.

[1:01:09] I mean, he's an angel demon exploring the border between pleasure and pain.

[1:01:13] I don't know what's confusing.

[1:01:14] I mean, he just wants he wants to show you sights, Dan.

[1:01:16] Yeah.

[1:01:17] Yeah.

[1:01:18] To be a World War One soldier.

[1:01:19] I don't know what's wrong with that.

[1:01:21] He just like shows up if you do a Rubik's Cube and then he's like, hey, like you wanted

[1:01:27] me for some reason, even the like, even though I'm clearly going to flay you, but that's

[1:01:32] going to be sexy to you.

[1:01:33] Like, I guess.

[1:01:34] He's a genie who thinks that everyone who rubs his lamp is turned on by being flayed.

[1:01:38] Yeah.

[1:01:39] Basically.

[1:01:40] Yeah.

[1:01:41] Basically, that's the best explanation of his deal I've ever heard.

[1:01:43] And it kind of makes me like him more.

[1:01:45] But I'm saying the confusingness isn't scary to me like, you know, ambiguity, all those

[1:01:50] other things are more scary.

[1:01:52] That said, like just having like unasked for bondage, people show up at my door, like in

[1:01:59] my apartment.

[1:02:00] That would scare me a lot.

[1:02:01] Like I just I just bought this puzzle box at an antique store.

[1:02:08] I didn't ask for the rest of it to come along.

[1:02:10] I'm not saying I couldn't get into it, but this is a lot of what you're like, guys, are

[1:02:18] we going to a KMFDM concert?

[1:02:20] This would be a radical shift in my vibe and maybe convince me over time.

[1:02:28] But right now, it's wearing a lot of wet leather lately.

[1:02:34] What's going on?

[1:02:35] He's got these new friends like they're either super into the Matrix or there's some that's

[1:02:44] great.

[1:02:45] I think that adds up to a seven.

[1:02:47] For scariness, I'm giving him a nine.

[1:02:50] Super scary look.

[1:02:52] The guys he hangs out with are super scary and weird.

[1:02:55] And they think that you're going to like the things that they're doing to you, which makes

[1:03:01] it scarier to me that it's like, oh, I'm doing you a favor by torturing you.

[1:03:06] This is going to be fun for you.

[1:03:08] But he loses it a little bit for me from because they gave him a backstory and I don't want

[1:03:13] to know where he came from.

[1:03:14] And so that the more I know about him, the less scary he is.

[1:03:17] It's the same thing that gets me about a lot of these characters from movies is once you

[1:03:21] start telling me their names and I have to think about how they have a birthday and possibly

[1:03:24] a social security number that makes it less scary.

[1:03:26] Yeah.

[1:03:27] Yeah.

[1:03:28] Well, that's the thing.

[1:03:29] Like, I'm going to give him a nine.

[1:03:30] But it is one of those things where like part of the appeal is the idea that like.

[1:03:34] I am drawn to like knowledge of the forbidden.

[1:03:38] Like I'm drawn to the like things you shouldn't know.

[1:03:42] And so it's scary that that could lead to you getting your skin ripped off.

[1:03:45] But like the ironic side is the more you find out, the less exciting it is.

[1:03:51] Much like NBC told us in those PSAs, the more you know, the less scary it is.

[1:03:58] But no, it's still pretty good.

[1:03:59] He did one of those goes, hey, I know you want to know all about where I'm from and

[1:04:02] what my deal is.

[1:04:03] You don't.

[1:04:04] It's going to make me a lot less interesting.

[1:04:05] A lot less.

[1:04:06] Well, that's why there are all those signs that say if you see something about Penhead,

[1:04:10] say something about Penhead, because the more you say about Penhead, the less scary it is.

[1:04:14] Well, and and as as Heisenberg told us, the more you observe about Penhead, the less scary

[1:04:19] he is.

[1:04:20] The less you observe.

[1:04:21] You are actually observing him affects his actual principle.

[1:04:25] Yeah.

[1:04:26] That's his uncertainty.

[1:04:27] You know, it's a centipede uncertainty principle.

[1:04:30] Yeah.

[1:04:31] Now, I think you can observe and be afraid of them at the same time.

[1:04:34] So far, Penhead's doing pretty good.

[1:04:36] And I think he's going to do pretty well in this next category.

[1:04:38] That's star power.

[1:04:39] How much star power does our boy have or are they them?

[1:04:43] I can't remember.

[1:04:44] There's a.

[1:04:45] Yes.

[1:04:46] In the reboot.

[1:04:47] That's true.

[1:04:48] It's an androgynous.

[1:04:49] They're an androgynous character, right?

[1:04:51] Yeah.

[1:04:52] I haven't seen the reboot.

[1:04:53] So possibly I could be wrong.

[1:04:55] Please correct me.

[1:04:56] But I'm going to say I'm going to say ten out of ten with star power.

[1:04:59] Any time a character is a supporting character in a movie and then takes over the series,

[1:05:04] they have to have a certain amount of inborn star power.

[1:05:06] In my mind, there is this direct connection between Penhead and Rob Halford from Judas

[1:05:12] Priest.

[1:05:13] And I don't know why that they're just kind of thin, tall, balding British gentlemen who

[1:05:18] wear leather, a lot of leather, a lot of leather.

[1:05:22] And and Rob, however, to me is is it is an enormous star.

[1:05:25] So I've got is another.

[1:05:27] So if even if if Penhead is just kind of leeching off of that association, that still grants

[1:05:33] them an enormous amount of star power.

[1:05:35] Yeah.

[1:05:36] Yeah.

[1:05:37] Ten out of ten.

[1:05:38] I'm giving ten out of ten for star power.

[1:05:39] I like Hellraiser as a series.

[1:05:42] I think it's weird because it like starts with, I think, an unusual amount of ambition

[1:05:47] for this sort of thing.

[1:05:48] I mean, because Clive Barker himself is behind it.

[1:05:52] And then as the series goes on, it becomes one of like the junkiest, schlockiest of these

[1:05:57] long running things, whatever crap.

[1:06:00] So again, there's like an an effect of like the aggregate taking, you know, what would

[1:06:06] be a higher score down.

[1:06:08] But I do think that Penhead, despite that, has such a unique look.

[1:06:13] You know, it's like, what the hell is this thing?

[1:06:16] What's going on here with this man who is like bisected by pins on his head?

[1:06:22] I'll give him an eight.

[1:06:24] I think even in those later ones, it's Penhead in those later Hellraiser movies.

[1:06:28] It's like Joan Crawford in Frog or like Marlon Brando in The Island of Dr. Moreau.

[1:06:32] You're like, this is slumming, but this is a star like I see that this is a star and

[1:06:37] I see why they were a star.

[1:06:39] And I'm also going to throw in there, I'm giving Penhead 10 out of 10.

[1:06:43] Part of it is also he's got like that super deep, sexy voice that's like that should be

[1:06:49] so soothing.

[1:06:50] But there's also like an alien quality to it.

[1:06:53] It's amazing.

[1:06:54] Like as soon as he shows up, you're like, that's why like a million shitty bands have

[1:06:57] sampled fucking Hellraiser clips for their songs.

[1:07:01] Yeah.

[1:07:02] What?

[1:07:03] Yeah.

[1:07:04] And he's not afraid to share the spotlight.

[1:07:07] But he also has an entourage.

[1:07:08] And so like a lot of these, he's the leader of a group and that's got star power in it

[1:07:14] right there.

[1:07:15] Yeah.

[1:07:16] He's got Chatterbox, Butterball, and Lady Cinnabite.

[1:07:18] Lady Cinnabite?

[1:07:20] No name given.

[1:07:21] Yeah.

[1:07:22] And CDhead, right?

[1:07:23] Well, it's Creole Lady Cinnabite.

[1:07:25] It's what?

[1:07:26] Yeah.

[1:07:27] Creole Lady Cinnabite.

[1:07:28] Oh, there's a good parody song.

[1:07:29] I need to hear the melody.

[1:07:33] Yeah.

[1:07:34] Okay.

[1:07:35] Okay.

[1:07:36] Pinhead's doing really well.

[1:07:37] Yeah.

[1:07:38] Yeah.

[1:07:39] Get your skin all off.

[1:07:40] Yeah.

[1:07:41] Elliot?

[1:07:42] Why don't you give us a number?

[1:07:44] Creole Lady Cinnabite.

[1:07:45] Bum bum.

[1:07:46] Bum bum.

[1:07:47] Bum.

[1:07:48] Owie.

[1:07:49] Okay.

[1:07:50] We've got time this minute to keep doing that parody, right?

[1:07:51] Yeah.

[1:07:52] We can really workshop this one.

[1:07:53] Yeah.

[1:07:54] Let's call Lin-Manuel Miranda to jump in here.

[1:07:55] Okay.

[1:07:56] Pinhead's doing really well.

[1:07:57] Yeah.

[1:07:58] Yeah.

[1:08:00] Yeah.

[1:08:01] Elliot?

[1:08:02] Why don't you give us a number?

[1:08:04] Okay.

[1:08:05] Elliot, pick a number between 1 and 14.

[1:08:08] 10.

[1:08:09] Oh, okay.

[1:08:10] This is actually, this might be a challenge.

[1:08:16] On a scale of 1 to 10, how good do you think Pinhead could be a great guest on WTF with

[1:08:22] Marc Maron?

[1:08:23] Oh, I mean, I'm going to give that a 10.

[1:08:25] That's not difficult to me at all.

[1:08:26] Yeah.

[1:08:27] Yeah.

[1:08:28] The stories they've got, just how lucidly and articulately Pinhead is going to be able

[1:08:33] to talk about that.

[1:08:34] And at some point, Marc Maron used the limit configuration, was mean to Pinhead, pissed

[1:08:39] them off.

[1:08:40] And now, Marc Maron's like, do we have beef?

[1:08:43] What's our beef?

[1:08:44] Yeah.

[1:08:45] Yeah.

[1:08:46] Who are Pinhead's guys?

[1:08:47] Well, unfortunately, Marc Maron's going to be, where are you from?

[1:08:48] Who are your guys?

[1:08:49] What did your parents do for a living?

[1:08:50] And I don't want to know any of that.

[1:08:52] That's not going to be useful to me.

[1:08:53] He also has no relationship with Lorne Michaels that we know of.

[1:08:59] When Marc Maron starts asking Pinhead about who was the doorman at Catch or at the Laugh

[1:09:04] Factory when he was performing there, like, that'll be a problem.

[1:09:07] Yeah.

[1:09:08] Yeah.

[1:09:09] I don't know.

[1:09:10] I don't know.

[1:09:11] I mean, like, I feel like Pinhead seems pretty humorless to me.

[1:09:15] So I think the conversation would be a might dry.

[1:09:18] That's my concern.

[1:09:19] I think it'll-

[1:09:20] Okay.

[1:09:21] I mean, I hate to break it to you, Dan.

[1:09:22] Even the conversations with comedians on WTF are often dry.

[1:09:25] Wow.

[1:09:26] Wow.

[1:09:27] Okay.

[1:09:28] So let's drop a score on this bad boy.

[1:09:29] I'm going to-

[1:09:30] Okay.

[1:09:31] I'll say 10.

[1:09:32] 10.

[1:09:33] Great guess.

[1:09:34] 10.

[1:09:35] 6.

[1:09:36] 6.

[1:09:37] If only, I want to hear Marc Maron.

[1:09:38] He does this whole thing about where he's just performed and how much he liked that

[1:09:40] theater or didn't like it.

[1:09:41] And he goes, so, Pinhead, didn't know what to know about this centibite, didn't know

[1:09:45] how to feel about it, but, you know, I was worried they were going to flame my skin,

[1:09:49] but you know, we had a good talk and here it is.

[1:09:52] And then you hear Pinhead going, so we just start right now or are we waiting for anything?

[1:09:56] No, no.

[1:09:57] Let's just go.

[1:09:58] And Marc Maron's like, where do I start?

[1:09:59] And then you hear Pinhead going, so we just start right now or are we waiting for anything?

[1:10:00] No, no.

[1:10:00] all these chains come from.

[1:10:04] Okay, I'm going to let it is very wet.

[1:10:06] What's with wet leather?

[1:10:07] I never would have thought leather would be wet.

[1:10:09] Well, you know, I live in a dimension of flesh.

[1:10:12] So things get wet and it's a constant windexing of the leather

[1:10:15] to get the gore and viscera off.

[1:10:19] Solid scores for old pinhead.

[1:10:20] He might be the one to beat.

[1:10:22] Okay, so we are on our last our last villain for the day

[1:10:27] and we got to round it out with a big one.

[1:10:29] That's right.

[1:10:29] Freddy Krueger.

[1:10:31] Wow.

[1:10:32] Wow.

[1:10:33] Yeah, Freddy Krueger on a scale of have you guys seen any of

[1:10:37] these movies?

[1:10:38] You ever heard of this guy?

[1:10:40] Heard of it.

[1:10:40] Frederick J.

[1:10:41] Krueger.

[1:10:42] Yeah.

[1:10:43] No, I think I heard of him bitch.

[1:10:45] I think I've seen all of them except for the lousy reboot.

[1:10:50] Unless maybe I watched that sometime.

[1:10:52] I don't even remember.

[1:10:53] I yeah, I think I've seen I'm going to guess you did.

[1:10:55] I I've seen all the old ones and did I watch Freddy vs.

[1:11:01] Jason all the way through?

[1:11:02] I think so.

[1:11:03] So I'm the feeder.

[1:11:06] But uh, but Freddy but the Freddy Freddy Krueger will get

[1:11:09] it like is someone one of these characters one of many of these

[1:11:11] are characters where I feel like the character is better than

[1:11:13] the work that he appears in much like Sherlock Holmes.

[1:11:17] I feel like the character itself is is a higher level than

[1:11:19] the actual the actual narrative, you know.

[1:11:23] Oh man, it's it's rare that I've walked out of a Freddy Krueger

[1:11:27] movie and been like that was good.

[1:11:29] That was good and scary.

[1:11:33] I yeah, I don't know that I've ever found him super scary

[1:11:38] because in my mind don't come at me like I like these movies,

[1:11:44] but even the first one the one that everyone's like that's

[1:11:46] this, you know, that's super scary like is a little goofy

[1:11:49] to me.

[1:11:50] It's like less goofy than later on when Freddy starts cracking

[1:11:54] jokes all the time.

[1:11:55] But you know those big like arms going across and like scrape

[1:12:00] you don't think that's scary.

[1:12:00] That's not what a human arm should do.

[1:12:02] Yeah.

[1:12:05] I mean, yeah, so I'm gonna I gotta go with I mean, although

[1:12:10] although hold on okay his deal his whole deal is pretty scary

[1:12:14] that whole concept of him is the idea that he cannot you cannot

[1:12:18] go to sleep.

[1:12:19] I mean, that's something you can't fight.

[1:12:21] So that Dan loves to go to sleep.

[1:12:24] Dan loves me.

[1:12:25] He's got all that time on his hands.

[1:12:26] Yeah.

[1:12:27] Yeah, the I think so.

[1:12:29] I'm going to give it three ratings three different ratings

[1:12:32] to one when I was a kid 10 super scary just seeing his face

[1:12:36] very scary.

[1:12:37] And when I was a kid Freddy Krueger was being shoved down

[1:12:39] children's throats.

[1:12:41] There were lunch boxes.

[1:12:42] There was the talking doll for some reason.

[1:12:44] This character was trying to make the leap from horror teenager

[1:12:48] and adult viewing to family fair family material.

[1:12:51] I'm amazed there wasn't a cartoon like the it's it seems

[1:12:55] crazy to me, but he seems so scary as an adult like Dan.

[1:12:59] I find him less scary than like off-putting in some ways

[1:13:03] the fact that he wears a hat and a sweater and sometimes

[1:13:06] sunglasses is makes it much less scary to me anytime that

[1:13:10] like the fact that there's a continuum between Freddy Krueger

[1:13:14] and spuds McKenzie in terms of like wearing sunglasses to

[1:13:16] look cool.

[1:13:17] Yeah, it makes it less scary.

[1:13:19] But the back the idea behind him is so and I feel like it's

[1:13:21] never been achieved as well as really could be the fact that

[1:13:25] he is a child molester.

[1:13:26] He is a real-life villain who was murdered and is now getting

[1:13:30] revenge and that he's that there's no the fact that someone

[1:13:34] would be getting revenge who is was already a scary person,

[1:13:38] you know that he's not he's not a wronged innocent not not

[1:13:41] saying that anyone who's accused of a crime should have

[1:13:43] their house burned down around them.

[1:13:44] But the yes, but that there's something very good say about

[1:13:48] that and that he strikes at young people through their dreams.

[1:13:50] It's really scary but often the way he does that is so goofy

[1:13:54] that it's not it's not as scary as it could be, you know,

[1:13:57] okay.

[1:13:57] So on scariness, where does Freddy fall?

[1:14:01] So when I'm a kid nine as a grown-up, I'm going to say four.

[1:14:07] Yeah, but if I was reading I feel like if I was reading a

[1:14:12] novel with the same premise the same character you might be

[1:14:16] up to an eight in terms of scariness.

[1:14:18] I feel like it loses a little something by the needs of movies

[1:14:23] which like you have to see me text Alan Dean Foster.

[1:14:26] See if we can crank out a quick thing for you and that would

[1:14:28] be amazing.

[1:14:29] That would be amazing.

[1:14:30] I'll just go down the middle out of five.

[1:14:34] Okay, imagine how much here it would be if this if this was

[1:14:36] like a Richard Bachman novel like wrote a Richard Bachman

[1:14:41] Freddy Krueger novel.

[1:14:42] It would be scary.

[1:14:43] I mean, yeah, it's a really scary book and there'd be a lot

[1:14:47] of muscle cars.

[1:14:47] Um, yeah, so that was muscle cars.

[1:14:49] I'm gonna be complaining about how things weren't as good as

[1:14:51] they were in the 50s.

[1:14:52] Yeah, and listening to doo-wop music and stuff like that.

[1:14:54] Sure speaking in the most confusing slang you've ever dreamt

[1:14:59] of so I will I'm also giving Freddy a five.

[1:15:03] I feel like part of the one of the one of the challenges of

[1:15:06] this series is the ambition that they have kind of pushed the

[1:15:10] envelope as far as special effects in a horror movie are

[1:15:13] concerned, but like it's hard for it not to as you said seem

[1:15:18] a little silly or chintzy at times I would say with luckily

[1:15:21] I still like them.

[1:15:22] I still think they're good.

[1:15:23] Yeah, I think they're still fun.

[1:15:24] I think there's a there's a except for a few exceptions.

[1:15:28] I feel like for me massive special effects and horror do not

[1:15:33] fully mesh unless there's a really strong concept behind it.

[1:15:38] It's like because I keep thinking about how they did it or I

[1:15:42] mean, it's like or when he turns into the sexy lady with the

[1:15:45] tongue that lashes out and ties the guy to the bed, right?

[1:15:48] And it's like Gary.

[1:15:49] It's it's so silly.

[1:15:52] It's my friend.

[1:15:53] What's really?

[1:15:55] Oh, no.

[1:15:56] Yeah, he was telling me it sounds really scary.

[1:15:59] Okay.

[1:15:59] So I think I think I think we can all agree that this next

[1:16:03] category might be Freddy's.

[1:16:04] That's right.

[1:16:05] Star power above 10.

[1:16:07] Is that possible?

[1:16:08] Yeah, 10 out of 10.

[1:16:10] I mean iconic.

[1:16:11] Look, he's got the sweater the hat the razor.

[1:16:16] The razor glove is I can't believe we didn't talk about that

[1:16:18] in terms of scariness.

[1:16:19] That is without that glove.

[1:16:21] I feel like Freddy does not get the chance to be in enough

[1:16:24] movies to really develop the goofy character that we've come

[1:16:28] to love and like that love with the with the blades on it is

[1:16:32] is a brilliant idea.

[1:16:33] It's great.

[1:16:33] Yeah.

[1:16:33] Yeah and Robert England.

[1:16:34] We you know, we got to say like like he's got he's bringing

[1:16:37] so much to that part.

[1:16:39] He is so good.

[1:16:41] Yeah, he's incredible.

[1:16:43] Yeah, 10 out of 10 10s across the board.

[1:16:45] I would say like he is I would put him up as probably the

[1:16:50] greatest like continuing horror character performance, you

[1:16:55] know, in building that character.

[1:16:56] It's like other than I guess I wouldn't know if it's gonna

[1:17:02] I feel like the well, I'm sure we'll talk about it at some

[1:17:05] point but like the original performance of Leatherface is

[1:17:09] so there's something so amazing in that but it's hard to do

[1:17:12] a scary monster that talks and Robert England.

[1:17:14] Yeah pulls it off really well, you know, man.

[1:17:16] He's so good.

[1:17:17] Okay.

[1:17:18] So let's wrap it up with a lucky dip.

[1:17:21] This might this might mess up Freddy here Dan.

[1:17:24] Can you give me a number between 1 and 14?

[1:17:26] No dupes.

[1:17:27] I'm supposed to remember everything we've said before.

[1:17:30] I'll let you know.

[1:17:31] I'll let you know.

[1:17:32] Okay, I'll play it safe and do one because I'm pretty sure

[1:17:35] we haven't done that.

[1:17:37] Oh man.

[1:17:37] This is this I think he's got this one on a scale of 1 to

[1:17:40] 10.

[1:17:41] How likely are you to want to have a beer with Freddy Krueger?

[1:17:48] I mean it look obviously very funny guy got a lot of like

[1:17:55] chummy charm about him.

[1:17:57] I can see you know, he's got it.

[1:17:58] He's a good storyteller.

[1:17:59] I can see him really loving, you know kicking back at the

[1:18:03] bar on the other hand.

[1:18:04] He is a child murderer plus question mark.

[1:18:10] So I think that that is a very trumping kind of part of it

[1:18:17] that I'm you know, he's so charming.

[1:18:19] I'll give him as high as a two but that's his as high as

[1:18:23] I'm willing to go.

[1:18:24] Okay a two from Dan Elliot.

[1:18:27] I feel like you go down to your local watering hole.

[1:18:29] Do you like Freddy Krueger?

[1:18:32] I feel like I'm going to give him a one and that I'm not

[1:18:34] inviting him.

[1:18:35] But if I happen through some machination of whatever plot

[1:18:38] I'm in to end up at a sort of Mos Eisley Cantina of horror

[1:18:42] bad guys, then Freddy is definitely Freddy plops down at

[1:18:46] the stool next to me.

[1:18:47] I'm definitely talking to him for a while.

[1:18:49] Yeah, so that's that limited scenario.

[1:18:51] You're right.

[1:18:51] He would probably be your best choice.

[1:18:53] I wouldn't I would normally wouldn't reach out to a murderer

[1:18:55] of any kind to come and hang out with me.

[1:18:59] But if I happen to be in this if this this monster bar then

[1:19:03] unless Dracula's there then I think I'm going to talk to

[1:19:06] I think I'm going to talk to Freddy.

[1:19:08] There's a monster bar doesn't have a novelty song associated

[1:19:11] with it.

[1:19:13] Yeah.

[1:19:13] It's all went to the monster bar.

[1:19:17] Who was that?

[1:19:18] I hate to tell you Elliot while you were living in New York.

[1:19:22] There was a monster bar in New York.

[1:19:24] It was called the Jack on Hyde Club.

[1:19:25] Yeah.

[1:19:26] No, I'm familiar with the Jack on Hyde Club.

[1:19:27] I'm familiar.

[1:19:28] That's not exactly what I'm looking for.

[1:19:31] Did you never go to the Jack on Hyde Club?

[1:19:33] You would have loved it.

[1:19:35] You haven't lived.

[1:19:35] Yeah, it was the I went there a bunch of times when I was

[1:19:37] a kid.

[1:19:38] It is the cheesiest thing in the world was the cheesiest

[1:19:41] thing in the world.

[1:19:42] You would have loved it.

[1:19:42] I mean as a kid I went to school.

[1:19:43] Man, I think it would have been life-changing if Dan had

[1:19:46] been.

[1:19:46] I think you the whole trajectory of your life would have been

[1:19:49] different.

[1:19:49] Yeah, it's like there'll always be time and you know what?

[1:19:52] It's not true.

[1:19:53] That happened to me with that happened to me with Mars 2112.

[1:19:56] I was like I have to experience this dumbass place, but I

[1:19:59] waited.

[1:20:00] long, never got to know. Yeah, I'm only, I'm going to give Freddy a three. I mean, I think

[1:20:04] he's probably a good hang. Uh, the vibes are a little off. Uh, and of course, obviously

[1:20:10] as we mentioned, he does like, let's say a complicated backstory. Uh, and also I feel

[1:20:15] like there's some level of him, uh, like I feel like he would be a pain in the ass for

[1:20:19] the bartender cause he's just doing bits all the fucking time. And like, you know, there's

[1:20:24] sometimes I don't want to go out with somebody who's going to overshadow me, you know, like

[1:20:28] he's got a big personality and that can be a real drain. So you have selfish reasons

[1:20:32] not to go out. Selfish reasons. Yeah, I'll admit it. Maybe I'm the monster. You will

[1:20:38] have the experience of Freddy Krueger that I feel like I've had. If I'm sitting in a

[1:20:42] bar outside of a major city where you're talking to someone you don't know, you're having a

[1:20:46] good time, you're getting along, they're real friendly. They say something that you do not

[1:20:50] approve of and you have to figure out how to extricate yourself from that conversation

[1:20:55] politely so that things don't go, don't go away. You don't want to, but you do not want

[1:20:59] Freddy Krueger is going to say something where you're like, okay, I no longer want to be

[1:21:03] in a conversation with this person. Like I can't, I don't want to, I don't want to silently

[1:21:06] acquiesce on that, you know? Yeah, that's never happened to me as a bartender. Unfortunately,

[1:21:12] you can't leave in that scenario. So we, we have, uh, we have some big scores here. We're

[1:21:18] going to tally them up, uh, next time because we have seven more baddies to rank. Um, I

[1:21:25] can't wait. Uh, thanks so much for playing where this show is part of the Max Fun Podcast

[1:21:30] Network. There's tons of really fun and spooky podcasts out there for Shocktober. Um, I am

[1:21:37] Stuart Wellington. I'm Dan McCoy. I'm Elliot Kalin saying come on and see us October 19th

[1:21:43] at vidiots, vidiotsfoundation.org. Okay, bye.

[1:21:50] Maximum fun, a worker owned network of artists owned shows supported directly by you.

FH Mini 91 - Best Horror Villains, Part 1

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