FH Mini 91 - Best Horror Villains, Part 1

[0:00] Hey!

[0:04] Hey!

Elliott Kalan

[0:05] This is another...

[0:07] Almost turned into Return to Innocence on the Pure Moods CD.

[0:11] Speaking of the 90s as we were before we started recording.

Stuart Wellington

[0:15] Hey, this is a Fall of Lophouse mini,

[0:18] which is a shorter episode of our podcast

[0:21] instead of our regular episode

[0:22] where we review a bad movie and talk about it.

[0:24] On one of these, we're going to do whatever we want,

[0:26] and this time, Stu Balls is driving the car.

[0:29] Now, just to pull back the curtain a little bit,

[0:30] Stu Balls over here is getting over a 24-hour bug,

[0:33] and I spent most of the day in bed and drinking broth and tea,

[0:37] which sounds lovely, but in reality, not so great.

[0:41] That's right.

Dan McCoy

[0:42] 24 hours watching the movie Bug over and over and over again.

[0:47] Oh, boy.

[0:48] Stuart, wait, hold on.

[0:49] Sorry.

[0:51] We stumbled into it.

[0:52] I have to tell you,

[0:53] I finally had the local Brooklyn experience

[0:55] of seeing Michael Shannon somewhere.

[0:57] Oh, cool.

[0:58] Speaking of bug.

[1:01] I was coming back from Fort Greene on the G train,

[1:08] and there he was on the platform

[1:10] in some sort of bowling shirt with a horse on it,

[1:13] and I was like, that's Michael Shannon.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15] Was he reading a book?

[1:17] Was he scrolling through his iPod mini?

[1:19] He was scrolling through his phone.

Dan McCoy

[1:20] I don't want to get too much into what, you know,

[1:22] he's a man.

[1:24] He's a human man.

[1:25] I don't want to report too much on his activities.

[1:27] So he was looking at porn on his phone,

[1:29] is what you're saying.

Stuart Wellington

[1:31] Yeah, yeah.

[1:31] I think he was.

[1:32] Yeah, so this has been another installment

[1:33] of Dan McCoy paparazzo.

Elliott Kalan

[1:36] But I was like, who's the interrupter now, dog?

[1:39] Dan.

[1:41] Sorry, I had to get my TMZ in there.

[1:43] Now, he's a classic Brooklyn experience,

[1:47] which is true.

[1:47] I believe it was the Lenape native peoples

[1:50] who first spoke of Michael Shannon

[1:52] being sighted among the trees

[1:53] in what is now modern-day Brooklyn.

Dan McCoy

[1:56] Yeah.

[1:57] Yep, he was mistaken for a Bigfoot,

[1:59] much like his hit film,

[2:02] whatever that Bigfoot Christmas movie was.

Elliott Kalan

[2:04] That Sasquatch Christmas one that we watched?

[2:05] Yeah.

[2:06] And, you know,

[2:07] a legend says that he carved the buttermilk channel

[2:10] by dragging his axe.

[2:11] He was so tired one day.

Stuart Wellington

[2:14] Oh, yeah, that's great.

[2:16] Oh, that's good.

[2:16] Local Brooklyn stuff.

[2:18] Okay, so.

[2:21] So it's important.

[2:22] It's cool that Elliot brings up myths and legends

[2:24] because as I had-

Elliott Kalan

[2:27] Should we introduce ourselves

[2:28] or do you want to-

[2:29] Oh, sorry.

[2:29] Or should we go into what you were going to do?

Stuart Wellington

[2:31] I mean, if they're still listening,

[2:32] they probably know who we are.

[2:34] Good point.

[2:35] Good point.

[2:35] Fair point.

[2:36] Fair point.

[2:36] Okay, no, that's fair.

[2:37] We are professionals,

[2:38] so let's keep it super profesh, dudes.

[2:41] I'm Stuart Wellington,

[2:42] and joining me are-

Elliott Kalan

[2:43] Dan McCoy.

[2:44] And I'm Elliot Kalin,

[2:46] and the reason I wanted to bring up introductions

[2:47] is so that I could briefly mention,

[2:48] I'll tell you more about it later in the show,

[2:50] our October 19th show at Vidiot's is coming up,

[2:52] two shows in one night at Vidiot's in LA,

[2:55] and Flop TV,

[2:57] the recording of our most recent episode,

[2:58] is up to watch.

[2:59] I'll tell you more about how to get there

[3:01] later in the show.

[3:02] Stu, back to you.

Stuart Wellington

[3:04] Okay, gang.

[3:04] So as I had you guys do a little preparation

[3:08] before this mini,

[3:10] and that's because on today's mini,

[3:13] we are doing the definitive 2023 rankings

[3:17] of horror movie villains.

[3:20] This is the definitive for all this year,

[3:23] 2023.

[3:23] We'll revisit it next year, of course.

[3:26] So what we're going to be doing is-

Elliott Kalan

[3:28] Every year we do definitive 2023 horror villains,

[3:31] which is why it's been hard up till this year to do it.

[3:34] Finally, we get to do it.

[3:36] The past couple years has been difficult

[3:36] because we didn't know what villains

[3:38] would actually be in the horror movies in 2023.

[3:40] But going forward,

[3:41] it'll be much easier

[3:41] because we'll be looking back

[3:42] rather than looking forward.

[3:43] Yeah, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[3:44] So as astute listeners can see,

[3:47] Elliot caught me slipping.

[3:48] He caught me doing a little slip of the tongue.

[3:51] You know, that's on me.

[3:52] Fair is fair.

[3:54] I'll take my lumps.

Dan McCoy

[3:58] So Stuart's defense is extreme affability.

Stuart Wellington

[4:03] Hey, fair is fair, you know?

[4:05] So we-

[4:06] He rolls with the wave.

Elliott Kalan

[4:07] He doesn't steal himself

[4:08] and get knocked over by the wave.

[4:09] He rolls with it.

[4:10] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[4:11] So today we're going to be ranking

[4:13] 14 of the most iconic horror movie villains.

[4:18] And we're going to be ranking them on three categories.

[4:20] And then we're going to be totaling up those scores.

[4:22] And we're going to see who is the 2023 ultimate horror villain.

[4:26] Okay?

[4:27] You guys excited?

[4:28] Yeah.

[4:28] Obviously, you'll have an opportunity.

[4:30] In addition to giving your score,

[4:32] you're also going to be able to make a little bit of an argument

[4:34] to defend your case.

[4:35] So we're, of course,

[4:37] going to be ranking our horror movie villains,

[4:39] as I explained to you previously,

[4:41] in three categories.

[4:43] The first is scariness.

[4:47] These are all on a scale of one to ten,

[4:48] one being least, ten being most.

[4:51] So scariness, star power.

[4:54] Okay.

[4:55] And then finally, lucky dip,

[4:57] which will be a random category determined by you guys.

[5:01] I love it.

[5:04] Okay.

[5:04] And it's going to be different for each villain.

[5:08] Okay.

[5:08] So why don't we get started with one of the smallest,

[5:14] but certainly not least, horror villains.

[5:17] Chucky from the Child's Play franchise.

[5:19] Okay.

[5:20] Do you guys have experience with Chucky?

[5:21] Have you seen any of the Child's Play movies,

[5:24] or maybe the television show,

[5:25] or maybe purchased any dolls?

[5:28] I believe that at this point,

Dan McCoy

[5:30] I have seen,

[5:32] except for three maybe,

[5:34] but I think maybe I have,

[5:35] and I just keep forgetting it,

[5:36] because two and three are kind of forgettable.

[5:38] I've seen all of the mainline Child's Play films.

Stuart Wellington

[5:42] Okay.

[5:42] Wow.

[5:43] That's pretty impressive.

[5:43] I feel like I've seen a handful.

[5:45] That's my answer.

[5:46] Elliot?

Elliott Kalan

[5:46] I think I saw the,

[5:47] I've seen the first one,

[5:48] but it was years ago,

[5:49] and I don't remember it hugely,

[5:51] and I don't know that I ever saw any of the sequels

[5:54] or the television show.

[5:55] It was just not a series that particularly appealed to me.

[5:57] Hey, Brad Dourif, don't get mad.

[5:59] You're great.

[6:00] But the series just didn't appeal to me.

Dan McCoy

[6:01] Well, can I say, Elliot, that I,

[6:04] His eyebrows are bristling when you say that.

[6:06] No, no, I,

[6:07] look, I've given up trying to change anyone's mind

[6:10] about any pop culture thing,

[6:12] but I haven't given up on providing gentle nudges

[6:16] of my own opinion,

[6:17] and that's to say that, like,

[6:18] one of the things that I really like

[6:19] about the Child's Play series is Don Mancini,

[6:23] he wrote the whole thing.

[6:26] All of the, like, movies are by the same screenwriter,

[6:31] and he treats everything.

[6:34] Like the Star Wars prequels,

[6:35] a sign of quality.

[6:36] And he treats everything as canon,

[6:38] so it's just fun that, like,

[6:40] the movies start off serious,

[6:43] like, get campier for a while,

[6:44] and then get more serious again,

[6:46] but he still integrates the campy stuff

[6:48] into the film, like, as if, like,

[6:51] yeah, this is all just part of one big timeline,

[6:53] and there's a lot of twists and turns

[6:55] that are kind of surprising in the series.

[6:57] That's all I say about it.

Stuart Wellington

[6:59] Love it.

[7:00] That's a firm argument.

[7:01] So, now it's time for us to give us a...

Elliott Kalan

[7:03] Well, I'm in the middle right now at home

[7:05] with watching Kobayashi's humanist masterpiece,

[7:08] The Human Condition,

[7:09] which is a nine-hour series.

[7:10] Look.

[7:11] And maybe when I'm done with that,

[7:12] I'll pick up Child's Play,

[7:13] where I left off,

[7:14] which would be Child's Play 2,

[7:16] and then get right with that series.

Dan McCoy

[7:20] I mean, who's to say who's living life more correctly?

Stuart Wellington

[7:26] I would argue there's time for both in life.

[7:28] Okay, so, first we're going to start with scariness, guys.

[7:31] One to ten, where does Chucky fall?

Elliott Kalan

[7:34] I'd like to give Chucky two scores on this.

[7:37] One, me as a child,

[7:38] and two, me currently as an adult.

[7:40] I'm going to say no.

[7:41] As an adult, I'm going to give Chucky like a two.

[7:44] It's not that scary to me.

[7:45] He's an easily overpowered small doll.

[7:48] But as a kid, that would be a ten plus.

[7:50] I found him so scary,

[7:52] and there was a cardboard standee,

[7:53] a much larger than life-size cardboard standee,

[7:56] in the video store where I was a kid of Chucky,

[7:58] when that movie first came out on VHS,

[8:00] and I was so frightened by it.

[8:02] I thought just the image of him was so scary.

[8:04] And so as a kid, I would say super frightening.

[8:06] But as an adult, I'm going to give him a two.

Stuart Wellington

[8:08] Okay.

[8:09] Dan, scariness.

Dan McCoy

[8:11] This is tough because I would say that Chucky has undergone—

[8:15] Give him three scores.

[8:16] Give him three different scores.

[8:17] No, I'm not going to do that.

[8:17] It really makes you mad.

[8:20] Chucky has undergone a process of Freddy Kruegerization

[8:24] over the years where he becomes like the wacky protagonist

[8:28] of his own series.

[8:30] And once that happens, you get less and less scary.

[8:34] But I did find the original Child's Play really scary

[8:38] when I first saw it.

[8:40] So I'm going to give him a six.

Elliott Kalan

[8:42] I think the thing that really puts me off about Chucky

[8:46] is the same thing I found scary as a kid,

[8:47] which is his total mean-spiritedness.

[8:50] He is so mean, and he's so like just—

[8:53] Yeah.

[8:54] There's nothing—

Dan McCoy

[8:55] Unlike those sweet killer dolls.

Elliott Kalan

[8:57] Well, no, but I mean there's a certain kind of like—

[8:59] I mean my type of killer, and I'm sure he'll show up in this ranking,

[9:03] is more of a like hulking, silent, you know, Jason type.

[9:07] But the—

[9:07] Maybe.

[9:08] Maybe he'll show up in the rankings.

[9:09] Who knows?

[9:10] But there's something about Chucky that is just so like vulgarly mean.

[9:13] Like he's just a mean—

[9:14] Like the kind of person where completely without the wit of a Freddy Krueger

[9:18] is just saying mean insulting things to people while he kills them

[9:21] and like being rough and abusive.

[9:23] And that's really frightening to me.

[9:25] So, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[9:26] I'm going to—

[9:26] And I'm going to split the difference.

[9:28] I give Chucky a solid five here because, as you guys said,

[9:31] as a child, very scary.

[9:33] Less scary as I become a massive muscular adult.

[9:36] Let's go on to—

[9:38] You have become a massive muscular adult.

Elliott Kalan

[9:40] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[9:41] Let's talk about—

[9:42] MMA.

Elliott Kalan

[9:43] Star.

[9:44] Star.

[9:44] Is that what that stands for?

[9:46] It does.

[9:47] Massive muscular adults?

[9:48] It does.

[9:49] Just beating the shit out of each other.

[9:51] Yeah.

[9:51] It's like guts.

[9:53] And so it's one step above the VMAs, which is very muscular adults.

[9:57] Yes.

[9:58] Yeah.

[10:00] In a battle royale.

[10:02] Yeah.

[10:02] For best music.

[10:04] I'm going to start watching the VMAs.

[10:06] And that goes above TMI, which is too muscular infant.

[10:09] That infant is too muscular.

Stuart Wellington

[10:12] Yeah.

[10:12] What is he working out with?

[10:14] I don't understand.

[10:14] Yeah.

[10:14] What a piece of shit.

Dan McCoy

[10:15] Was he lifting his placenta?

[10:17] What's going on?

[10:18] What's in that formula?

Stuart Wellington

[10:19] Yeah.

[10:20] Yeah.

[10:22] Yeah.

[10:22] He's got to be juicing if he looks bigger than me.

Elliott Kalan

[10:24] We thought we were giving that baby formula.

[10:26] It's creatine.

[10:27] The whole time it's been creatine.

[10:28] Wow.

[10:29] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[10:29] Yeah.

[10:29] It's some off-brand rip fuel.

Dan McCoy

[10:34] Okay.

[10:35] Wait.

[10:35] Blow the dust off the top of that above formula.

[10:38] It says super soldier.

[10:40] Oh, no.

Elliott Kalan

[10:42] Well, we shouldn't have been giving him the one from the dusty bottle.

[10:44] That's our fault.

Stuart Wellington

[10:46] Yeah.

[10:47] Okay.

[10:48] Well, that's our mistake for being hunchbacks and having to get the right formula.

[10:54] Okay.

[10:54] So that's going to be scariness.

[10:58] What about star power?

[10:59] How much staying power as an image does Chucky have?

[11:05] One to ten.

[11:06] Hmm.

Elliott Kalan

[11:07] I mean, you go first, Dan.

Dan McCoy

[11:09] You love this character.

[11:09] I'm going to put him close to the top because I think that it's a pretty iconic looking monster.

[11:18] It's a very, you know, like all the bright colors and whatnot, but also like.

Elliott Kalan

[11:22] Yeah.

[11:23] The thing every iconic monster has, bright colors.

[11:26] Well, but that's like.

[11:27] Dracula.

[11:28] The monkey.

[11:29] He's a H.R. Digger.

[11:30] Yeah.

[11:31] The xenomorph.

[11:32] Just bright, psychedelic.

Dan McCoy

[11:34] Beyond just the look, like.

[11:36] Like a fresh piece of tropical fruit, all these monsters.

[11:39] There's like eight mainline Chucky movies that, as I say, like keep a continuity that makes sense.

[11:48] Unlike a lot of long running horror franchises.

[11:52] Plus there's a reboot, plus there's like that Chucky TV show, which I kind of want to check out because I think it is also Don Mancini.

[11:59] But I don't know.

[12:01] I'll go with eight.

Elliott Kalan

[12:03] Here's the thing.

[12:04] I would say.

[12:05] Oh, sorry.

[12:05] What did you say?

Stuart Wellington

[12:06] I was just going to say solid score.

[12:07] Dan, I am with you.

[12:08] I think it's an eight as well.

[12:10] Very, really stands out and obviously has lasted the test of time.

[12:13] Elliot.

Elliott Kalan

[12:14] I'm going to say the same thing.

[12:15] I was going to say eight.

[12:16] Personally, again, not that attracted to the idea of Chucky or the, and I don't mean sexually attracted.

[12:21] I just mean interested.

[12:22] Not that.

[12:23] It's not that.

Dan McCoy

[12:23] It's insane, dude.

[12:24] I mean considering it.

[12:26] Is that one of the ratings?

[12:27] How much of a boner you get from the monster?

[12:28] I mean it should be later on, I assume.

Elliott Kalan

[12:30] Could be in the lucky dip.

[12:32] Yeah.

[12:33] Clearly, it doesn't appeal to me, but Chucky has stood the test of time and has outlasted the kind of dolls that he was even a kind of horror take on.

[12:42] So you got to give him a, I would say eight also.

[12:44] I got to give him a high mark for iconicity.

Stuart Wellington

[12:46] Okay.

[12:47] And now here's the random category, and I'm going to let Dan pick a number.

[12:50] Pick a number between one and 14, and that'll determine what is the category we're ranking him on.

[12:56] Five.

[12:58] Five.

[12:58] Let me mark that down.

[12:59] Okay.

[13:00] Five would be, actually I think he's going to crush this one.

[13:03] On a scale of one to ten, how good do you think Chucky would be at hosting a morning show?

[13:09] Oh, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[13:10] That's got to be a ten.

[13:11] Very much so.

Stuart Wellington

[13:12] He's going to fucking crush it, right?

[13:13] He would be very abusive.

Elliott Kalan

[13:14] Again, rough and abusive on his guests, but he'd do a great job.

Dan McCoy

[13:18] Yeah.

[13:18] I think another ten.

[13:19] I mean, it would be like an adult swim style morning show.

[13:22] Yeah.

[13:22] It's like the Eric Andre show.

[13:23] Yeah.

[13:24] Very much so.

[13:24] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[13:26] Yeah.

[13:26] I would say the only the, I feel like there would be some level of him putting people off with his meanness.

[13:31] So I'm going to give him a nine, but that's ten, ten, nine.

[13:33] That's some good ass scores, Chucky.

[13:35] Let's, that's going to be tough to beat, but maybe somebody will.

[13:38] And I think, I think we have another heavy hitter for our second contestant.

[13:43] Michael Myers.

[13:44] He looks like William Shatner, but weirder.

[13:48] Michael Myers from the Halloween franchise.

[13:50] There's been a million of these.

[13:51] I've only watched, I don't know, some of them and a lot of them are crappy.

[13:55] But let's see.

[13:55] Let's see how good he ranks.

[13:57] So Michael Myers.

[13:59] Have you guys, have you guys seen some of these Halloween movies?

Dan McCoy

[14:02] I have seen every Halloween movie except for number five.

Stuart Wellington

[14:07] Oh, okay.

[14:08] Was there, is there a reason why number five didn't?

Dan McCoy

[14:11] Well, I actually am planning on watching it soon because I just watched number four for the first time.

[14:17] Basically, like, you know, one through three all have their partisans.

[14:23] Like, you know, like one's a classic, two is like an okay follow-up to that.

[14:27] And then three is like weirdo, bonkers stuff that horror fans love.

[14:32] Yeah, it's the best one.

[14:34] And then later on, you know, there was like the reboots that started coming out when I was in college or whatever.

[14:41] And so, like, I would see those or high school.

[14:45] Like H20?

[14:46] Yeah, H20 and the others.

Elliott Kalan

[14:49] It's not, it's the 20th anniversary movie, isn't it?

[14:52] Like, it's not about water.

[14:53] You're right, you're right.

[14:53] I mean, people call it H20, but that's stupid.

[14:56] It's not, it's not like, now he's made out of water.

[14:59] Oh, he can do whatever.

[15:00] He can slide under doors.

Stuart Wellington

[15:02] If only Hydro Man is Spider-Man's toughest villain.

Elliott Kalan

[15:05] His most beloved villain.

[15:08] Hydro Man, the only villain that, the only villain Sony is like, eh, let's not make a movie about him.

Dan McCoy

[15:12] Let's do all the other ones.

[15:15] To tie up a boring loose end, basically like, you know, like those slip through the cracks and they don't have many, many partisans.

[15:24] Those two are kind of regarded as some of the low points of the series, but I was just like, you know what?

[15:29] I've come so far.

[15:30] Let me just plug this hole.

[15:32] So, I'm watching them this Halloween season.

Stuart Wellington

[15:36] That's exciting, Elliot.

[15:37] Have you seen, have you watched all of them?

[15:38] Have you watched any of them?

[15:39] Have you ever seen Halloween?

Elliott Kalan

[15:40] I've watched the first three and then it's pretty spotty hit and miss after that.

[15:45] I haven't seen any of the recent new ones.

[15:49] Yeah, don't worry about it.

[15:51] I haven't gotten into those.

[15:52] I find that, and we'll get into this in greater depth, I'm sure, with our rankings, that Michael Myers to me is like a more primitive early version of something I like a lot, but he's not all the way there, you know?

Stuart Wellington

[16:07] Well, why don't we just jump into it?

[16:09] How do we rank Mr. Michael Myers in scariness?

[16:13] And that's not Mike Myers the comedian.

[16:15] Which is 10, 10, 10, 10.

[16:17] Hugely scary.

[16:19] He marries an axe murderer.

[16:20] These days.

[16:22] How scary do you have to be?

[16:23] Yeah, how scary do you have to be to do that?

[16:25] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[16:27] I think this is another case of, you know, he's been dampened by time.

[16:32] In this case, not by becoming campier, but being in so many bad sequels.

[16:37] Because if we were ranking just on the original Halloween, I'd put him at like an eight or nine.

[16:43] But I think sort of overall now, I've got to go with a seven.

Elliott Kalan

[16:47] Okay.

[16:47] That's still a solid score.

[16:49] Elliot?

[16:50] I think, you know what?

[16:51] I think I'm going to give him a five.

[16:53] I just, and I probably would have found him scarier when he was a fresh new flavor.

[16:58] But by the time I got into horror movies, he had already been around for a long time.

[17:01] And there were better, scarier.

[17:03] His children were scarier than him, as we all hope.

[17:06] We all hope our children will go on to be scarier than we are.

[17:08] That's the American dream.

[17:10] But it's always put a damper on him.

[17:13] I've never found him too particularly scary.

Stuart Wellington

[17:15] Yeah, there's something relentless about him.

[17:17] And also, he somehow learns to drive a car while in a mental institute.

[17:21] So that's impressive.

Elliott Kalan

[17:23] That is impressive.

[17:23] I mean, he scares Donald Pleasance.

[17:25] And he's kind of a scary guy.

[17:27] Yeah, that's true.

[17:28] I don't want to, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[17:30] It's like Quint's shark speech.

[17:32] Like, if something scares that guy, I'm scared of it too.

[17:36] Oh, yeah.

[17:37] Okay, so I think I'm kind of with you.

[17:39] I mean, have you seen Wake and Fright?

[17:40] Donald Pleasance is a creepy dude.

[17:43] He is, and I have.

[17:45] So that's not featured in this list, though.

[17:49] Okay.

[17:50] It's too bad.

[17:52] I'm giving him a whopping six for scary.

[17:54] So we're going to move on to star power.

[17:57] How lasting an image is Mr. Michael Myers?

[18:00] How much of a star is he?

Dan McCoy

[18:03] I mean, he's clearly had a lot of longevity.

[18:06] But even though I personally had, there's no movie in the Friday the 13th series that I like as much as I like the original Halloween and the third Halloween.

[18:20] But, I mean, which Michael Myers is not in.

[18:22] But like.

Elliott Kalan

[18:25] You're like, I really love Michael Myers because I love Halloween 3.

[18:29] But.

[18:30] You know what I love Boba Fett?

[18:31] That's why I love Star Wars A New Hope.

Dan McCoy

[18:33] Yeah.

[18:35] No, I realized it didn't make any sense after I said.

[18:37] But my point is, like, as much as I feel that way, like, Jason has become so much more like the iconic vision of that kind of slasher.

[18:46] Like, so I feel like I have to give him, you know, Michael Myers some demerits for having that sort of taken away from him.

[18:54] Yes, he did after class.

[18:56] So, I don't know.

[18:58] But there's been a lot of movies.

[18:59] So I'm still going to go with an 8.

Elliott Kalan

[19:01] Oh, wow.

[19:02] That's good.

[19:02] Okay, Elliot.

[19:03] I think I'm going to go with a 7.

[19:06] Because, again, his individual, like, stature, look, all that I don't find particularly iconic.

[19:13] But still around.

[19:15] He's still here.

[19:15] Like Stephen Sondheim said in the song he wrote about Michael Myers, I'm still here.

[19:20] And so you can't deny that.

[19:22] But he does feel like the, he feels B-team to me at this point.

[19:27] Which takes, you know, I'm going to give him a 6, actually.

[19:29] I'm going to give him a 6 because he feels B-team to me.

[19:31] Wow.

[19:31] And also, I'm just going to say this.

[19:32] I've never been a big fan of the first Halloween.

[19:35] I find it one of those movies that I can watch for historical importance.

[19:38] But it does not do it for me.

[19:40] You know.

[19:41] And I'm actually.

[19:42] Great song.

[19:43] It gets it on the song.

[19:44] The song is more iconic than the killer, I feel like.

Stuart Wellington

[19:48] Halloween by King.

[19:48] Could be.

[19:49] By Merciful Fate.

Elliott Kalan

[19:50] Yeah, exactly.

[19:51] Halloween by Merciful Fate.

[19:51] No, the theme from the movie Halloween.

[19:54] The John Carpenter theme.

Stuart Wellington

[19:56] Okay.

[19:56] I'm actually going to drop him down.

[19:58] He's only getting a 4 from Stewart.

[19:59] Because I think he, you know, he already has a strike against him because he doesn't talk.

[20:04] But also, I just think he's kind of boring.

[20:07] And a jumpsuit.

[20:08] I mean, come on.

[20:09] I agree that he is.

[20:10] I agree that he is boring to me.

[20:11] Kind of boring.

[20:12] Yeah.

[20:12] Kind of boring.

[20:13] And I feel like one of the reasons why there's been so many is that I feel like a lot of filmmakers

[20:17] are trying to recapture the feel of the first time they saw the first Halloween.

[20:21] Halloween.

[20:22] And I think they are ignoring what actually makes that thing scary.

[20:26] I don't know.

[20:27] Maybe.

[20:27] That's a half-warm thought.

[20:28] And I'm also pretty sick.

[20:29] So ignore me.

Elliott Kalan

[20:30] No, but I feel like the things around Halloween are scary.

[20:34] Like, the name is a great name.

[20:35] The poster is a great poster.

[20:37] Like, the theme is a scary piece of music.

[20:39] And I think there's a lot of stuff that is – it's like – but at the middle of it is this empty hole or shape, as he is credited as.

[20:48] Well, that is Michael Myers.

Dan McCoy

[20:50] I feel like at this point, you're, you know, your tongues have been too flavor blasted by flashier horror movies.

[20:58] I think that, like, the way that Carpenter uses those big empty frames and has, like, things slowly sort of reveal themselves.

[21:06] Like, if you were, you know, watching it in, like, a dark room.

[21:09] If I was watching it in the late 70s.

[21:10] It would be – yeah.

[21:12] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[21:14] But I know that he's got Prince of Darkness coming out of him.

[21:17] So, I'm not – I'm like, there's scarier stuff coming from this guy.

[21:19] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[21:19] So, why don't we – it's Elliot's time.

[21:21] Why don't you pick a number between 1 and 14 for our lucky dip?

[21:25] 13.

[21:26] 13.

[21:27] Okay.

[21:28] This is going to be a challenge, but possible.

[21:31] On a scale of 1 to 10, how well do you – or how good do you think Michael Myers would be at writing a career-defining novel?

Elliott Kalan

[21:39] I mean, going for myself, I'm going to have to give him a 1 on this one.

[21:43] I feel like he's –

[21:43] Oh, okay.

[21:44] I don't feel like he is the – maybe it's just because he doesn't talk.

[21:48] Maybe he's got all those words hemmed up inside.

[21:51] But I think he would have trouble sticking the course and finishing the book.

[21:55] Wait, so –

[21:55] He's relentless.

[21:56] But I don't think in the way that he would just be sitting down and pounding on those pages every day.

Dan McCoy

[22:01] Now, are you – when you say career-defining –

Elliott Kalan

[22:05] I mean, could you define his career as bad, as a bad writer?

Dan McCoy

[22:09] In which case, a 10.

[22:10] Yeah, you're defining his career as a writer, or could he like write a roman a clef and like define his career as a murderer, which would be easier?

[22:19] But you know what?

[22:21] I'm going to give him good marks.

[22:22] I'm going to say a 7 because he had a lot of life experiences and doesn't talk so clearly.

[22:27] He has a rich inner life.

[22:30] Yeah.

[22:30] Yeah, still waters do run deep.

[22:32] Yeah.

[22:32] He could draw on his – yeah.

[22:34] He's probably thinking in prose.

Stuart Wellington

[22:36] Yeah.

[22:36] And most writers that I know are kind of weirdos anyway.

[22:41] Yeah.

[22:42] Yeah, I'm going to give him a 6.

[22:44] I think he – I think there's a decent chance he's got some words in him.

[22:46] But as I said before, I find him kind of boring.

[22:50] Okay, so let's move on to number 3.

Elliott Kalan

[22:52] I mean, that's my real worry, is he would be talking about murdering people in a boring way.

[22:55] Yeah, yeah.

[22:56] It'd be too matter-of-fact.

Stuart Wellington

[22:58] Okay, so moving on to our third contestant.

[23:00] We got Jigsaw from the Saw series.

[23:04] It's a man, but it's also a doll.

[23:06] What?

[23:07] It's a Chucky.

[23:08] Yeah.

[23:09] Kind of.

[23:09] I mean, it's not really – it's not an animated spirit.

[23:13] I feel like –

[23:15] It's a guy named John Kramer.

[23:17] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[23:18] I saw the most recent Saw, the Saw X.

[23:21] I missed a bunch.

[23:23] Yeah, I saw Saw X.

[23:25] Seesaw.

[23:25] I missed a bunch in the middle.

[23:27] I'm sorry.

[23:27] This is probably, you know, jumping the gun and answering a question you may be asking.

[23:31] Get in there.

[23:32] Get in there.

[23:32] But part of – like, you know, it's not a series that has been one of mine, but everyone was like, this one's good.

[23:39] And I'm like, all right, you know, I, like, have this time to kill, and I have, like, you know, a movie pass.

[23:47] So I watched it, and when the doll showed up, it felt like the most kind of –

Stuart Wellington

[23:52] Elliot's head is steaming right now.

[23:55] Yeah, well.

Elliott Kalan

[23:56] Dan's like, hmm, I got nothing to do.

Dan McCoy

[23:58] I guess I'll see a movie I don't even want to see.

[24:00] We do.

[24:01] But, no, when, like, the doll shows up, and I'm like, this feels, like, so pro-forma.

[24:07] Like, the doll is just, like – Jigsaw's like a prop comic serial killer.

[24:12] It just, like, happens to have a doll associated with them.

[24:15] It doesn't do anything.

Elliott Kalan

[24:17] Well, like, all the – I mean, all the great heavy metal bands pretty much have their mascot that shows up on their albums.

[24:23] And Jigsaw's like that.

[24:24] He's got his doll.

[24:25] The doll's just, like, a character that shows up.

[24:27] It's not like – you know, like, Iron Maiden's not singing songs about Eddie, but he's there all the time.

[24:33] He's just around, you know?

Stuart Wellington

[24:35] Yeah.

[24:35] And, like, John Kramer, the Jigsaw, basically – I think he dies at the end of part three, but he's still killing people way further past that.

[24:46] I feel like your argument about the Chucky movies having a long, like, continuity and canon, that is the one appeal of the Saw franchise is that they, like – it's all treated as, like, one long story.

[24:59] Yeah.

[25:00] And Carrie Elwes comes back after a while, which is hilarious.

Dan McCoy

[25:04] But they do it, like, so much more clumsily and weirdly, which is, like, added value if you like that sort of thing.

[25:13] Yes.

Stuart Wellington

[25:13] The fun is that it's dumb.

Elliott Kalan

[25:15] Yeah.

[25:16] Like, when I watch a long hard series –

[25:17] The other stuff is not fun.

[25:19] I don't necessarily want a seamless epic tale.

[25:22] Like, I kind of want bumps and shudders and jolts and things that don't make sense.

Dan McCoy

[25:26] I just – like, something about the Saw series way of doing it is too slipshod for me, whereas, like, I enjoy the way that the Chucky movies actually kind of elegantly keep it all together.

Stuart Wellington

[25:39] Okay.

[25:40] So, on scariness, where does Jigsaw fall for you?

Dan McCoy

[25:47] I mean, I've seen him from the outside.

[25:52] You know, like, I know he's just –

[25:53] You've never been Jigsaw?

[25:54] So, you're saying you've been the other characters?

[25:57] I've taken the omniscient view of the film camera, and I know that Jigsaw is just this kind of weak, dying guy.

[26:06] You know?

[26:07] Sure.

[26:08] And he does these traps rather than killing people, and the traps are, like –

Stuart Wellington

[26:14] Yeah, technically, he doesn't kill anybody.

[26:16] Yeah, exactly.

[26:18] But they follow his –

[26:18] Technically, it's the trap he set up that kills somebody.

[26:21] His hands are clean, officer.

[26:23] There needs to be an entire episode of – or an entire series of, like, Ryan Murphy bullshit where it's, like, the people versus John Cramer.

Dan McCoy

[26:32] Yeah.

[26:33] Well, he has that dumbass, like, moral code that makes no sense in a number of ways.

[26:39] So, that stuff makes him unscary to me.

[26:42] But if I put myself in the viewpoint of, like, someone in one of these traps, I think that would probably freak me out more than anything else.

[26:50] If you're going to apply –

Elliott Kalan

[26:51] Are you afraid of the dark logic?

[26:54] Which, as I said before, when me and my brother and sister would watch Are You Afraid of the Dark and Nickelodeon, we'd be like, well, it's not scary to watch.

[27:00] But if it was happening to us, we'd be scared if that was happening.

[27:03] That's the premise of all horror movies.

[27:06] No, but horror movies should be like, oh, it's scary to watch and if you were there.

[27:09] Oh, okay.

Stuart Wellington

[27:10] We're not talking about that.

[27:12] We're talking about our – do you find this character – do you find Jigsaw scary?

Dan McCoy

[27:16] Well, that's why I'm going to split the difference and I'm going to give him a five.

[27:20] Okay.

[27:20] Elliot.

Elliott Kalan

[27:21] I'm going to give him a one.

[27:22] I haven't seen most of the Saw movies.

[27:25] I just don't – I don't find him personally very scary.

[27:28] And there's something about – I've never been a big fan of like trap stuff.

[27:32] I feel like this episode so far has been me talking about things I don't like as opposed to things I like.

[27:36] But the idea – I like a – I like someone who gets his hands dirty, you know, as opposed to someone who's just like, hmm, I've set up an intricate series of events that if they go right, you'll die.

[27:47] And you probably will.

[27:48] Because at a certain point, they're just Arcade who is an X-Men villain that I like even though he is terrible at his job.

[27:55] Everyone always escapes.

[27:56] His stuff he does is way too over-elaborate and that makes it less scary to me.

[28:02] Yeah, you got to assume he's got a failure kink.

Dan McCoy

[28:05] I'm about to tread on what I assume is well-trod stand-up ground from a decade or more ago.

[28:13] But like I see the traps –

[28:14] What's the deal with Barack Obama?

Elliott Kalan

[28:16] No, I see the traps.

Dan McCoy

[28:18] I'm like, where does he find the time?

[28:20] He's like –

[28:21] Yes.

[28:21] Especially as like a weekend dying man.

[28:23] Says the guy who saw X in the theater.

Elliott Kalan

[28:26] Yeah.

[28:27] Dan, if anyone knows how much time a human can have on their hands, it's you.

[28:30] That's – not to bring it back to X-Men, but that's something I've been thinking about a lot lately is whenever you see Apocalypse or Mr. Sinister in like their lair and it's full of huge computer screens and there's all these elaborate consoles.

[28:41] I'm like, so was he just there with a drill and a screwdriver and a soldering iron just making that by himself for weeks?

[28:47] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[28:47] Yeah, of course.

[28:48] If he has contractors, then of course he has to kill them afterwards.

[28:51] Of course, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[28:52] And they're like, well, this alien technology is kind of hard to come by Apocalypse.

[28:55] It's going to take us a few more weeks than we thought it would.

[28:58] Oh, I was supposed to be kidnapping the X-Men like two days ago.

[29:02] When you're still not done yet?

[29:03] No, it's going to take some time.

[29:05] Hey, hey, pay me now, pay me later.

[29:07] I can leave right now and you're just going to have to bring me back to fix it.

[29:10] Okay, all right.

[29:11] Survival of the fittest, et cetera.

[29:13] Anyway.

Stuart Wellington

[29:14] Apocalypse, you can get it done well, you can get it done fast, or you can get it done cheap.

[29:18] You can only get two of those things, though.

[29:22] Okay, so I'm kind of with you guys, although honestly, I'm kind of scared of traps.

[29:27] As much as I love games, I would hate for those games to result in me dying because I'm not actually good at games.

[29:32] So I'm going to give Jigsaw a six.

[29:35] Now, star power.

[29:36] I think we're all in agreement.

[29:38] Not a lot of star power there for Mr. Jigsaw.

[29:40] No, I don't think so.

[29:41] Although there is a part in a later Saw movie where John Kramer shows up at like a serial killer convention or something wearing a baseball hat on backwards.

[29:49] That's super cool.

Elliott Kalan

[29:51] That would be a cat-cash jigsaw.

[29:53] But I think if the character is upstaged by his doll that doesn't actually do anything, then I think that character has low star power.

[30:02] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[30:02] Yeah, yeah.

[30:03] That's the problem.

[30:04] They split the star power between a doll and an old guy.

[30:11] And I got to say, Tobin Bell is a –

Elliott Kalan

[30:12] It's like if Freddy was not as well-known as his car.

[30:16] You know?

[30:17] Yeah.

[30:17] That's what it feels like to me, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[30:19] Tobin Bell is a charismatic actor, though.

[30:22] And I think that like in the series, like – I don't know.

[30:27] I mean like this most recent one, he does look very old.

[30:31] So like that combined with the fact that he's supposed to be dying makes him a little less alarming to me as like a physical threat.

[30:39] But, you know, I'll give him a two for like personal charisma.

Elliott Kalan

[30:43] That might make it a little scarier to me as that he's a specter of the harbinger of age, which waits for us all if we're lucky.

[30:48] Yeah, that's true.

Stuart Wellington

[30:50] I'm giving him a one.

[30:51] He's not that scary to me.

[30:52] Dan gives him a two.

[30:52] Elliot, what do you give him?

[30:54] I'm going to give him a one.

[30:55] Okay.

[30:56] So lucky dip.

[30:57] Dan, give me a number between one and fourteen.

[31:00] Nine.

[31:01] Number nine.

[31:02] Uh-oh.

[31:03] This is actually – I think he's going to be good at this.

[31:05] On a scale of one to ten, how well do you think Jigsaw would be at managing a restaurant?

Elliott Kalan

[31:11] Oh, yeah.

[31:12] I'll give him a ten for that for sure.

[31:14] Yeah, ten.

[31:14] He's all about administration.

[31:16] He's all about delegation.

[31:18] Planning.

Dan McCoy

[31:19] Yeah, he inspires legions of acolytes apparently.

[31:23] So put him in a managerial role.

Elliott Kalan

[31:27] Yeah.

[31:27] Oh, he's going to shoot up the corporate ladder on that.

[31:29] He'll be running managans in no time.

Stuart Wellington

[31:32] He doesn't even have to be there.

[31:34] He does most of his work remote.

[31:36] It's amazing.

Elliott Kalan

[31:37] It's going to – they're going to be – like, so as the head of the McDonald's Corporation,

[31:40] as CEO, you're appointing a dead man, a man who died years ago?

[31:45] He's just that good.

[31:46] Just watch this tape.

[31:48] You'll be convinced.

Stuart Wellington

[31:51] Okay.

[31:52] So that's – Dan, I'm guessing that's a ten from you?

[31:54] Yeah, yeah.

[31:55] Oh, man.

[31:56] He crushed it.

[31:56] He gets a ten from me.

[31:57] Wow.

[31:58] Yeah, that lucky dip really kind of brought him back.

[32:00] Wow, yeah.

[32:01] Okay, our next one comes from Beyond the Stars.

[32:03] Our next villain is the Predator.

[32:06] An alien hunter.

[32:08] Obviously, you guys have seen some Predator movies, right?

[32:12] For sure, sure.

[32:13] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[32:14] I think I've seen all of them except Predators, the one with Adrian Brody.

[32:17] I still haven't seen that one.

Stuart Wellington

[32:19] I saw that one, but not the other one.

[32:21] Not the Shane Black one.

[32:22] I didn't see.

Elliott Kalan

[32:23] The – oh, right.

[32:24] You know what?

[32:24] I didn't see that one either.

[32:25] So there's the two – except it's weird when Predator is a character who has been around

[32:30] for 40 years at this point almost, and the best movie that he was in was the most recent

[32:37] one, that it took that long for him to be in a really good movie.

[32:40] It's great.

[32:41] Yeah, Prey is great.

[32:43] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[32:43] I – guys, I'm realizing something disturbing about myself in that I have seen all of the

[32:49] Predator movies, and it's not even a franchise I particularly care for.

[32:54] Yeah.

[32:56] Maybe Elliot's been right all these years.

[33:00] Elliot, what should I be spending my time on?

Elliott Kalan

[33:02] I mean, things that inspire or uplift you, things that touch your emotions.

[33:06] There's a little bit of a hit and miss.

[33:07] You don't always know what's going to create that reaction.

[33:09] Sure.

[33:10] But often if you – forgetting what TLC says, if you do stick to the livers and rakes that

[33:17] you're used to, you're just raking up those livers like you're used to, then you're not

[33:21] going to experience anything new or fresh.

[33:23] Yeah.

[33:23] You've got to chase new things.

[33:25] That's why if I see a movie – at this point, I'm more excited to watch an old foreign

[33:30] movie I don't know anything about than the latest chapter in a franchise that I'm familiar

[33:34] with, even one that I like.

Dan McCoy

[33:36] I've started reading more again.

[33:39] I'm reading The Three Body Problem.

[33:41] Great.

[33:41] Oh, cool.

[33:41] How do you like it?

[33:42] It's good.

[33:43] A little disappointed you thought it was about a threesome?

Elliott Kalan

[33:46] How do they lock them all together in the right configuration?

[33:49] That's a three-body problem.

Stuart Wellington

[33:50] Guys, I've started reading romance novels.

[33:54] Oh, yeah.

[33:54] Great.

[33:54] Good.

[33:55] That's fantastic.

[33:55] Hey, you know, I like to change it up.

[33:58] Can't all be fantasy and sci-fi.

Elliott Kalan

[34:00] No.

[34:00] And meanwhile, I should talk.

[34:01] I'm now rereading the longest book I've ever read, The Power Broker, for an upcoming

[34:05] project that it looks like I'll be working on.

[34:08] That's a little teaser for later maybe.

[34:10] But that is the most not chasing waterfalls it could be is reading a huge book that I

[34:15] know will take me a while that I've already read.

Stuart Wellington

[34:17] Yeah, it's The Power Stroker, your porn parody.

Dan McCoy

[34:21] So I invented this device.

[34:26] You won't believe what I call it.

Elliott Kalan

[34:29] So do you want me to do – how are we going to do this, parkway or expressway?

Dan McCoy

[34:35] Now, why do you express on the parkway?

[34:40] You're semen, I mean.

Elliott Kalan

[34:42] Well, you don't park on the expressway.

[34:44] But if you could park – if he says if he could park dead butt this way, that's how

[34:48] he does it.

[34:49] Yeah.

[34:50] Anyway, I can't think of a porn name for Robert Moses.

[34:53] I can't think of it.

[34:54] So.

[34:56] Robert Blow This.

[34:57] Anyway, so it starts Robert Blow This.

Stuart Wellington

[34:59] Slobbert Blows Us.

Elliott Kalan

[35:01] Yeah.

[35:02] Robert Blow This or Robert Do This.

[35:03] Yeah.

[35:04] Robert Does Us.

Stuart Wellington

[35:06] So the predator.

[35:09] Where do we fall on this guy?

[35:11] The predator.

[35:11] How scary.

Elliott Kalan

[35:13] I think he is – he's one where I think he's scary in capability until he gets beaten at

[35:19] the end in every one.

[35:21] And also scary in appearance.

[35:23] He's got a creepy crab face, you know.

[35:27] And so I'm going to give him an –

[35:30] Seems like a weird shaming, but that's okay.

[35:34] Well, except I'm not – it's okay.

[35:35] He's not real.

[35:36] But except that – he's not that – you know what?

[35:38] But he's not that scary.

[35:39] It's not like I'm watching the movie and I'm like, uh-oh, I'm scared.

[35:41] So actually – forget what I just said.

[35:44] Again, I'm just thinking about if he was chasing me.

[35:46] He was chasing me.

[35:47] 10 out of 10, scary.

[35:48] But watching the movie, I gave him maybe a four for scariness.

[35:52] He's an action adventure monster.

Stuart Wellington

[35:54] Yeah, he's – there's like a – there's an overwhelming force from him.

[35:58] Yeah.

[35:58] Like he's so – he is so much better at hunting you than you are at running away from him.

Elliott Kalan

[36:04] Yes.

[36:04] Like a dentist on vacation shooting an elderly lion in a cage.

[36:09] It feels very unfair the way the Predator hunts its human victims.

Dan McCoy

[36:14] He's – you know, he's so imposing and the design is good if a little too humanoid for me.

[36:21] That's one of the problems I have with Predator.

[36:23] But like that is frightening as a design.

[36:28] But like Elliot, I don't get that scared watching the movies at all.

[36:32] So I'll put him at a five actually.

Stuart Wellington

[36:35] Put him at a five.

[36:36] I still find him pretty – I find him fairly scary.

[36:40] And so I'm going to give him a seven.

[36:42] He's this like overwhelming enemy that has, you know, a collection of wonderful toys.

[36:49] So we're – I think this is a pretty good time.

[36:51] Now that we're talking about wonderful toys, I think it's a perfect time for us to have a little word from our sponsors.

Dan McCoy

[36:58] Thanks.

[36:59] Today's episode is supported in part by NordVPN.

[37:03] This VPN is easy to use.

[37:05] You can connect with one click or enable auto connect for zero click protection.

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[37:29] You know, look, if you want to be safe on the internet, you should be using a VPN.

[37:34] I mean, it's just a general truth.

[37:37] And the only thing that like ever would keep you from it is like fear that it was too slow.

[37:44] But I think NordVPN has effectively disproven your thoughts, doubter.

[37:50] Doubting VPNer.

[37:52] So I don't know why this is taking such an adversarial attack with the audience.

[37:56] Shame them into using it.

[37:58] Yeah.

[37:59] To get our exclusive discount off of your NordVPN plan plus four months for free, go to nordvpn.com slash flophouse.

[38:10] It's completely risk-free with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee.

[38:15] So that's nordvpn.com slash flophouse.

Elliott Kalan

[38:20] I've got some flophouse show things to tell people about and then one personal thing.

[38:25] So tickets may still be available when this episode comes out for our October 19th shows at Vidiot's in Los Angeles.

[38:31] Vidiot's is a great venue.

[38:33] I really love it.

[38:34] It's a special one.

[38:36] It's very beloved here in LA.

[38:38] And I'm excited to be there.

[38:40] We're going to be doing two shows, 6 p.m.

[38:41] We're talking about Speed 2.

[38:43] At 8.45 p.m.

[38:43] We're talking Three Men and a Baby with our special baby guest, Hallie Haglund.

[38:47] That's right, the star of the show will be joining us live on stage.

[38:51] Go to vidiotsfoundation.org.

[38:53] Both of those shows will be totally original shows, new presentations, new talk, nothing the same in between them except the same three lovable flophouse dudes.

[39:02] Go to vidiotsfoundation.org.

[39:05] I think tickets may still be available when this comes.

[39:07] We're also recording this just a few days after our most recent episode of Flop TV, our online broadcast show.

[39:14] We talked about Hot Dog, the movie, and Hamburger, the motion picture.

[39:17] It was a lot of fun.

[39:18] I got so mad talking about Hamburger, the motion picture.

[39:21] And Dan taught us all about a movie that somehow sounds even worse than that one.

[39:26] Did you miss the episode?

[39:28] Don't worry.

[39:28] If you buy a season pass to Flop TV, you will still get access to all the episodes we've aired as well as to new episodes when they come out.

[39:36] Our next new episode will be the first Saturday in November when we are talking over the top.

[39:41] Greatest sports movie ever made?

[39:43] Possibly.

[39:44] We're going to find out.

[39:45] It's over the top.

[39:46] First Saturday of November.

[39:47] I'm really excited about it.

[39:49] Go to theflophouse.simpleticks.com.

[39:52] That's theflophouse.simpleticks.com.

[39:54] To get tickets to individual shows or a season pass, you save a little bit.

[39:58] And as always, it gets you access to all those old episodes.

[40:02] Before we get back to Stuart's horror monster power rankings, I want to mention that I have a comic book series that's currently in stores now.

[40:09] I was not promoting it during the strike because it is a corporate-owned IP, but the strike is over.

[40:14] Time for me to promote it.

[40:15] This series is called Hades.

[40:17] It's from Dynamite Comics.

[40:18] It is a five-issue series featuring Hades, the villain from Disney's Hercules movie.

[40:24] Hades is back on the prowl for evil.

[40:29] Basically, it's a –

[40:31] It's not a dating story then.

[40:32] No, not a dating story at all.

[40:33] It's added for a second.

[40:34] It is a heist story.

[40:35] Hades has decided he wants the power of the golden fleece so he can get back at the Olympian gods.

[40:39] And he assembles his own little team of heisters, Orpheus, Arachne, Icarus, and the Minotaur to help him get that stuff.

[40:47] There's twists, turns, betrayals.

[40:49] There's lots of Greek mythological characters.

[40:52] I had a lot of fun doing it.

[40:53] The artist by Alessandro Inaldi, who does a fantastic job with it.

[40:56] It's super fun.

[40:57] The first two issues have come out.

[40:58] Number three comes out October 25th.

[41:01] It will be five issues in total.

[41:02] And that is Hades from Dynamite Comics written by me.

Dan McCoy

[41:06] And, yeah, I'm glad that was the personal information that you had.

[41:10] You said you had a personal announcement.

[41:11] I'm like, oh, no.

[41:12] He's going to be like, I've decided to quit the flop house to go back to medical school.

Elliott Kalan

[41:17] I have a personal announcement.

[41:18] I have faked my own deaths in order to abandon my family.

[41:21] I now live in South America.

[41:23] Do not look for me.

Dan McCoy

[41:26] Wow, you're doing this weird.

S4

[41:34] Co-op-to-bro.

[41:35] Co-op-to-bro continues in celebration of National Co-op Month.

[41:38] I'm Palmieri Muniz, producer and a worker-owner at MaxFun.

Stuart Wellington

[41:41] I'm Miss Luzonbrosio, producer, and I'm also a worker-owner at MaxFun.

S4

[41:46] This week is all about community.

[41:48] Of course, we couldn't be a co-op without the MaxFun community.

[41:51] And we love it whenever members of our audience get together.

[41:54] So we're having another MaxFun meetup this Thursday, October 12th.

Stuart Wellington

[41:57] And next week, we'll be hosting a panel discussion with other worker-owners across the co-op community.

S4

[42:03] And we are still selling our limited edition Launch Crew merch available to all MaxFun members.

[42:08] But only through the end of the month.

[42:09] For more info on Meetup Day and everything Co-op-tober, head to maximumfun.org slash co-op-tober.

Stuart Wellington

[42:16] That's C-O-O-P-T-O-B-E-R.

[42:20] Have a great week.

[42:23] Okay, and we're back.

[42:25] Now we're currently ranking the predator.

[42:29] The predator monster.

[42:31] What is it?

[42:31] A Yautia or Yautja?

[42:33] Whatever that alien race is called.

[42:34] You know what?

[42:35] I don't think I've ever known.

Elliott Kalan

[42:36] Yeah.

[42:37] It's an Okja.

[42:38] Yep.

Stuart Wellington

[42:39] It's Jilda Swinton and Jake Gyllenhaal.

Elliott Kalan

[42:41] So it's a super cute little big pig.

[42:43] Sure.

[42:43] Yeah.

[42:45] That should have been the tagline.

[42:46] I remember that movie, Little Big Pig.

[42:47] Yeah.

[42:48] That's a phrase I wish I could take credit for.

[42:50] That's a phrase that my kids use a lot to describe things.

[42:53] If we're ever doing Mad Libs, I'll be like, noun.

[42:56] And they'll go, little big pig.

Dan McCoy

[42:58] Now, do you imagine Dustin Hoffman's face on that pig?

[43:02] They put him in a lot of pig makeup.

[43:03] Yeah, an incredibly elderly pig who lived out west.

Stuart Wellington

[43:06] Yeah.

[43:06] Uh-huh.

[43:06] And then James Cromwell's like, that'll do, little big pig.

[43:09] That'll do.

[43:12] Okay.

[43:13] So we're ranking the predator.

[43:15] We have already ranked it on scariness.

[43:16] Time to rank it on, uh-oh, star power.

[43:20] How much of a star is the predator?

[43:22] He's got cool dreadlocks and a mask sometimes.

[43:26] A variety of weapons.

[43:28] He wears fishnets like a-

[43:29] All over, like Cher.

Elliott Kalan

[43:31] Yeah.

[43:32] He wears a fishnet body stocking like Cher in the Turn Back Time video.

[43:36] Yeah, I'm into it.

[43:38] Or you have to imagine the predator is always showing up after a Rocky Horror picture screening

[43:43] where he's gone as Frank and Furter and now he's out killing people, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[43:47] Maybe if he was asked, he'd be like, actually, I was dressing up like a bag of oranges.

Elliott Kalan

[43:55] It's just an easy Halloween costume you could do around the house.

Stuart Wellington

[43:58] Yeah, be a bag of oranges.

[43:59] Okay, so guys, star power for the Predhead.

Dan McCoy

[44:02] What do we do?

[44:03] I mean, like you said, got a lot of flair, got a lot of wonderful toys.

[44:07] I also think that, you know, other than like maybe the crab mouth, Predator is one of the monsters we've talked about

[44:16] that I could more plausibly see someone thinking is sexy because it's just a big, like beefy guy, basically.

[44:22] Oh, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[44:23] He's not skipping leg day.

[44:25] Oh, no.

Dan McCoy

[44:27] Again, maybe not my series, but I'm going to give an eight for star power.

Elliott Kalan

[44:32] Okay.

[44:33] So here's the thing.

[44:34] I normally, I feel similar to, similar with Chucky in a way where it's like Predator for so many years

[44:40] was a real all-sarand kind of second tier one of these, you know, after, I'm sure we'll get to him at some point,

[44:45] the Xenomorph, which is, I'll just spoil, for me is kind of the king of all these monsters in a way.

[44:50] But, again, just like Sondheim wrote in his song about the Predator, I'm still here.

[44:57] Like the Predator clawed his way up to being a top draw, and I really got to give him credit for that.

[45:03] Then maybe he, this is, some stars are born and some are made, and the Predator made himself a star.

[45:07] So I'm going to give him, I think, a nine.

Stuart Wellington

[45:10] Not bad.

[45:12] I'm going to say, you know, I feel like the Predator, his look is a little too busy for me.

[45:16] I do like the clicks, and I like the other sound effects, like the sound effects when you, like, see his, like, his thermal vision.

[45:24] Or I also like his little, like, three laser sight thing.

[45:29] I think that's pretty cool.

Elliott Kalan

[45:30] But, again, there's a lot going on.

[45:32] I'm going to drop him down to an eight because whenever he's using his claw hands to press the buttons on his wrist controller, it looks silly.

[45:39] That looks silly to me.

[45:41] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[45:41] Yeah.

[45:41] It seems, yeah.

[45:42] So I'm only giving him a six.

[45:44] So I'm sorry, Predator.

[45:46] You lost me a little here, buddy.

[45:48] Now, guys, Elliot, can you pick a number between one and 14 for the lucky dip?

[45:56] I'm going to say two.

[45:57] Two.

[45:58] Okay.

[45:58] This is an interesting twist.

[46:01] On a scale of one to ten, how likely are you to invite the Predator to a nice restaurant?

[46:07] Oh.

[46:09] I mean, possibly one run by Jigsaw.

Elliott Kalan

[46:11] I mean, if it's the Jigsaw restaurant, maybe.

[46:14] I'm going to say one for two reasons.

[46:16] One, I don't know if he's on the hunt, which would make it an awkward meal.

[46:20] And also, I don't want to watch him sticking food in that crab mouth.

[46:23] I'm sorry.

[46:23] I don't mean to be face shaming him.

[46:25] Yeah.

[46:25] But I don't.

[46:26] We have a pet crayfish in our house.

[46:28] I watch that eat and it is frightening.

[46:30] It's frightening and grotesque.

[46:32] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[46:32] I saw a crab eat like a pinky once, you know, like a little baby hairless mouse.

[46:37] And it did it from the back.

[46:39] So the thing was still alive for most of the meal.

[46:42] It was the worst.

[46:43] And I think the crab knew what was happening and was like, I'm doing this to freak you out.

Elliott Kalan

[46:47] It's very possible.

[46:48] I could see the Predator doing that.

[46:50] I don't know why the restaurant is serving him live pinkies.

[46:52] Maybe that's what he ordered.

[46:53] That's true.

Stuart Wellington

[46:54] Why'd they put that on the menu?

Dan McCoy

[46:57] Yeah.

[46:58] You know, I think that there's like going to be a lot of destruction if you take a Predator to a restaurant.

[47:03] That's A number one concern other than like the Predator killing me.

[47:07] You know, that's A number one, double A number one concern.

[47:13] I guess.

[47:14] But so don't want to hang out with someone who wants to kill me.

[47:19] A lot of destruction.

[47:21] Because of some ambiguity in the wording, would you invite a Predator to a nice restaurant?

[47:26] I'd say, what if the scenario is you're tricking the Predator into a restaurant you filled with explosives so to end this hunt, this game?

Elliott Kalan

[47:35] You're right.

[47:36] I guess in that situation, that unlikely situation.

Dan McCoy

[47:40] So, no, for that very unlikely situation, I'll give it a two.

[47:44] Just that bumps it up from one.

Elliott Kalan

[47:47] I don't remember what I said the Predator was in terms of scariness, but I want to mention I think the Predator's scariness involves context.

[47:53] In the jungle, in the first movie, I don't find him that scarier.

[47:56] But in Predator 2, which is a bonkers, not good, incredibly racist movie that doesn't make any sense, he's much scarier in an urban setting.

[48:05] There's something about the fact that he can be going after regular bystanders.

[48:09] That is very scary to me.

[48:10] As opposed to the jungle where it's like, well, I'm never going to be on a black ops mission in Latin America with my mercenary team.

[48:18] So that's not as scary to me.

Stuart Wellington

[48:22] I feel like he could be like the quiet religious guy who goes crazy.

[48:26] Thank you.

[48:26] I appreciate that.

[48:27] Yeah, yeah.

[48:27] Maybe, yeah.

[48:29] I, you know, I'm going to give, I'm going to be a little higher.

[48:33] I'm going to say, I'm going to give the Predator a three because, you know, when you stroll into that nice restaurant with a Predator on your arm, you're going to be turning some heads.

[48:42] That's true.

[48:42] People are going to be looking at you a little different.

[48:45] Dressed to impress.

[48:46] Okay, so we are now moving on to our fifth horror villain.

[48:51] And this is a little bit of an outlier because this, this monster doesn't have a franchise.

[48:56] We are talking about the Babadook.

[48:59] Babadook gay icon, Babadook.

Elliott Kalan

[49:02] I love how Babadook started as an ironic gay icon and just became, just became one.

Stuart Wellington

[49:07] The Babadook, which, yeah, Jennifer Kent, the director, specifically put in the contract that could not have sequels made.

[49:16] Wow.

[49:17] So, yep, one and done.

[49:18] Very smart.

[49:19] And then she made one of the most soul scouring movies I've ever seen, The Nightingale.

[49:23] I still have not been able to bring myself to watch it.

[49:25] Brutal.

[49:27] Okay, so the Babadook.

[49:29] On terms of scariness, have you guys seen the Babadook?

[49:32] Yes.

Elliott Kalan

[49:33] Okay.

[49:33] Seen the Babadook.

[49:34] Seen it.

[49:34] It's a great movie.

[49:35] Yeah.

[49:36] Scary?

[49:38] I'd certainly, I'm giving it, the thing is, I'm going to give it a 10 in terms of scariness, the movie.

[49:42] But the scariest scene in that movie to me is the one where she is in the car and her son is flipping out and she cannot get him to calm down.

[49:49] That is so much scarier to me than anything that Babadook does, except for the part where she pulls her own tooth out.

[49:54] That's, again, it feels like the humans are scarier to me than the Babadook in that movie.

[49:57] But the Babadook's making them do it.

[49:59] So, I'll give the Babadook an assist on that.

Dan McCoy

[50:02] Yeah.

[50:03] So, my rating comes with levels.

[50:06] This is sort of like the galaxy brain meme.

[50:09] Sure, okay.

[50:10] So, like the first level is, fuck man, that Babadook in that movie is pretty goddamn scary, right?

[50:18] And you go one above that level and you're like, yes, but the moral spoiler of the Babadook is like, she learns to live with it.

[50:28] Like, she integrates it into her life, like by not letting the fear take over.

[50:33] And it's just sort of a general metaphor for like the depression, you know, the bad feeling that we all have to live with.

[50:42] And then, so like maybe it's not that scary because that's a good message and you can live with it.

[50:48] But then the galaxy brain sort of thing is like, it's so much scarier to think about the fact that you have to just do this hard work of actually dealing with problems for your whole life.

[51:03] So, I'm going to give it a nine.

Elliott Kalan

[51:05] A nine?

[51:05] That's pretty good.

[51:06] I think there's no magic spell or artifact that is going to shoot the Babadook into a portal and you don't have to deal with him again.

[51:12] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[51:13] There's no like reverse summoning ritual that you can perform that gets rid of the Babadook.

[51:18] You just have to deal with it forever.

[51:22] Yeah.

[51:22] And hopefully the noise quiets a little bit.

Elliott Kalan

[51:25] I'm going to add in, I'm going to, there's a little bit extra scary about the Babadook because I have to assume this is the case that the visual is so informed by kind of minstrelry iconography.

[51:38] Mm-hmm.

[51:39] The top hat and the like the exaggerated features and things like that.

[51:43] And that it's, so there, the scariness of institutional racism and cultural racism is also kind of, is kind of built into that, into that creature, that guy.

[51:53] On the other hand, on the other hand, you got to imagine the Babadook hand crafting those, those picture books that he leaves behind.

[52:00] And that is less scary to me.

[52:01] The idea of a monster involved in handicrafts is less scary to me.

Dan McCoy

[52:04] Well, this is actually, so not to say that there aren't, you know, overtones of what you're saying, Elliot, because I can see where it comes from.

[52:13] But it's my understanding that the Babadook's look was directly inspired by this film that I just looked up.

[52:22] The Man in the Beaver Hat in London After Midnight.

[52:25] Or, sorry, London After Midnight is the film and the man in the beaver hat is named the character.

[52:29] And here we see the character.

Elliott Kalan

[52:31] Oh, yeah.

[52:32] Oh, you know what?

[52:32] Then maybe it's a total coincidence because he does look like Lon Chaney in London After Midnight.

[52:36] But except, I don't know about that.

[52:37] I don't know if I totally buy that, actually.

Dan McCoy

[52:39] I mean, it could be a touch of yours and a touch of mine.

[52:44] A little bit of both.

Stuart Wellington

[52:45] Yeah.

[52:45] Yeah, I'm giving him a 10.

[52:47] Babadook, that's a scary one.

[52:50] Super scary.

[52:51] Yeah, super scary.

[52:52] So, and I think Elliot's kind of ranking also ties in with this next part.

[52:59] Star power.

[53:00] How much star power does this Babadook have?

[53:03] I feel like for having only one movie and how well it's entered the cultural consciousness a little bit, it's pretty scary.

[53:10] Yeah, super star.

[53:11] That's some star power.

Elliott Kalan

[53:13] And super star power, I would give him a 10 on star power.

[53:15] And also, it takes you back to when these movies were young, like when horror movies in the old days, you didn't expect a character would have a whole franchise.

[53:26] And they were scary characters.

[53:28] Like you look at Bill Lugosi as Dracula.

[53:30] He plays that character in two movies 14 years apart or something like that.

[53:35] He's in Dracula.

[53:37] And then he's in Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein.

[53:40] And otherwise, I don't know that he's on screen as Dracula at all in between those two.

[53:45] I might be forgetting something, but I don't think so.

[53:47] And like that's iconic star power.

[53:50] When you can establish that with one movie and that's the way you used to have to do it.

[53:54] So yeah, Babadook, 10 out of 10 for star power.

[53:56] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[53:59] I'm going to ding the Babadook a little for not having maybe the same man on the street appeal as Jason.

[54:07] If you're going to like ask someone to like, do you know a horror thing?

Elliott Kalan

[54:11] Well, he's like the Parker Posey of horror monsters where it's like in the right community, he's a huge star.

Stuart Wellington

[54:17] Yeah, you're like on Twitter, people know all about him.

Elliott Kalan

[54:21] This is coming from a Judy Greer lover like Dan McCoy too, especially.

Dan McCoy

[54:26] Well, that's what I'm saying.

[54:26] For the memes, for the gay icon-ness, for the fact that people can like talk about the Babadook and people know what it means.

[54:37] And the Babadook is such a funny word to say that it ends up in a lot of jokes.

[54:43] You know, I'll still go, you know, I'd still, you know, I'm being held back by the man on the street.

[54:51] My imagined man on the street who may be very different than my prejudices, but I'm going to say eight.

Elliott Kalan

[54:59] Still very high for a character from, what, New Zealand movie?

[55:04] Yeah.

[55:05] With no famous stars in it, at least no famous American stars.

[55:09] That's pretty high.

[55:10] That's high.

Stuart Wellington

[55:11] And I'm giving the Babadook a nine again because it's one of the biggest lessons is you leave them wanting more.

[55:19] You want more of that Babadook.

Elliott Kalan

[55:22] You only get a taste.

[55:23] It's so much scarier and so much more impressive.

[55:26] Like, it's just so much more of an impact that you know that he's left living in that basement, right?

[55:31] Or closet, whatever it is.

[55:32] With that family having to deal with him as we all have our Babadooks that we have to deal with.

[55:36] Rather than like, Babadook too.

[55:38] Now some teenagers from America go to the New Zealand coast for the spring break and the Babadook shows up.

[55:44] Like the same way that Pinhead becomes increasing.

[55:47] Forty Babadooks down.

[55:48] I'm sure we'll talk about Pinhead at some point, but Pinhead becomes increasingly less scary and less ominous and imposing the more you see him just hanging around, talking to people and doing stuff.

[55:59] Yeah.

[56:01] And by that last one where Pinhead has three roommates and they're like, oh, my boss is coming over for dinner.

[56:08] Can you guys have to help me pretend that I don't have any roommates?

[56:11] Well, say it.

[56:12] Hellraiser 6, I wish I didn't have roommates.

[56:14] By then, Pinhead has lost all.

[56:16] You know, lost all of his mystique.

Stuart Wellington

[56:18] We'll save your Pinhead talk for later.

[56:20] Spoiler alert.

[56:21] Okay.

[56:21] So we are now into the lucky dip category for the Babadook.

[56:25] Dan, give me a number between 1 and 14.

[56:27] No doubles.

[56:28] You can't double it up.

[56:30] Seven.

[56:31] Seven.

[56:32] Okay.

[56:33] How well, on a scale of 1 to 10, do you think the Babadook could plan a retirement party?

Dan McCoy

[56:43] Oh, boy.

[56:45] This is a tough one.

[56:47] It's a challenge.

Elliott Kalan

[56:48] Well, can I go first, Dan?

[56:49] Can I go first?

[56:50] Yeah, sure.

[56:50] Yes.

[56:50] I'm going to give him an eight on this because one, again, good with crafts.

[56:55] Two.

[56:55] Yes.

[56:56] He's good at getting to know people.

[56:58] He can make a personalized children's book, pop-up book, I think, right, for everybody.

[57:02] I feel like he's going to be like, here's what's going to be special and really get at the heart of this person who's retiring.

[57:09] We're going to make some things to put around.

[57:11] And he is good at getting people to do things that maybe they don't want to do, like almost kill a dog and pull their own tooth out.

[57:19] And maybe even people who don't want to get involved in this retirement party, he's going to be able to get them to do it.

Dan McCoy

[57:23] Yeah.

[57:23] I mean, I think the craft's angle is good.

[57:26] I haven't thought of it.

[57:27] Like, the Babadook is definitely a creature with an aesthetic.

[57:31] So there's that.

[57:33] And, you know, there's something uniquely sort of keyed into middle-aged and elderly emotional concerns about the Babadook to me.

[57:44] Like, it seems like the Babadook is a creature that maybe bedevils you only once you've reached a certain point in your life and can reflect on yourself with a certain amount of emotional maturity.

[57:56] And so that might come into play.

[57:59] So I'm going to say a seven.

Stuart Wellington

[58:01] Yeah, yeah.

[58:01] Elliot, what was your number?

[58:02] What was your number on that one?

[58:03] I said eight.

[58:05] Eight.

[58:06] I'm going to go with Elliot on this one.

[58:08] I think an eight.

[58:08] The Babadook also, I feel like I can really connect with people that are also considering the fears of getting older.

[58:14] And age.

[58:15] I think there's something about that.

[58:16] So, yeah, the Babadook, not a bad score for.

Elliott Kalan

[58:20] He's going to do a good job putting the party together.

[58:22] But at some point, he will say something tactless to the subject of the party.

[58:25] Yes.

[58:25] That's why he doesn't get higher marks.

[58:27] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[58:28] Okay.

[58:28] So our next villain, I think you already guessed it.

[58:32] The leader of the Cenobites himself, Pinhead.

[58:35] Uh-oh.

[58:37] Originally performed by Doug Bradley in the early Hellraiser movies.

[58:40] And then, did he play Pinhead up until the recent reboot?

[58:44] Dan?

[58:45] I thought so, but I could be wrong about that.

[58:47] Now, at least two of those are good movies.

[58:49] There's a few that are not so great.

[58:53] Have you guys seen all the Hellraiser movies?

Dan McCoy

[58:56] There's so many of these.

[58:57] And they get so bad.

[58:59] Like, three is still passable, but then I feel like it takes a dive off the cliff.

Elliott Kalan

[59:05] Yeah.

[59:05] After two, I've never been able to get myself.

[59:09] I've never been able to get my ass to Mars and watch the rest of them.

Stuart Wellington

[59:12] I still have some affection for, which one is it?

[59:16] Hellraiser Inferno.

[59:17] I think that was the one by the guy who made Sinister.

[59:21] That feels like a, it feels like a nice little, like, self-contained story that is in the, like,

[59:27] Hellraiser universe as opposed to just like a sloppy, like, you know, like, slasher clone that just happens in Pinheads.

[59:35] But, yeah, the first two, obviously, they're the wettest horror movies you're ever going to see.

[59:40] Everything's so goopy, yeah.

[59:42] They're so fucking great.

[59:44] And, like, arguably, Julia is one of the, like, all-time horror movie villains.

[59:49] What a great character.

[59:50] It's so awesome.

[59:51] A movie about a woman bringing a guy back from the dead because she is so horny for her husband's brother.

[59:58] Oh, it's great.

[59:58] I love it.

Elliott Kalan

[59:59] Well, that's the amazing thing about Hellraiser is it became, they turned Pinhead into kind of, like,

[1:00:06] a Freddy or Jason type when he's such a, he's such a side part of that first Hellraiser movie.

[1:00:12] It's not about him.

[1:00:12] You know, he's just a, he's just a glimpse of the horrors that exist in the, you know, beyond our dimension.

[1:00:17] And that first one's only, like, 85 minutes or something.

[1:00:20] It's, like, so tight.

[1:00:22] Yeah, it's, it's short and to the, there's a little, I feel like there are times when even at that length,

[1:00:27] I'm like, all right, Hellraiser, like, keep going.

[1:00:29] But, uh.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:30] I don't need this montage of her bringing men home and killing them.

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:34] But even just the idea that, like, that he's, he's coming back to life in stages, you know,

[1:00:39] and they're added, he's got, he's got to add more and more layers of skin and muscle onto him, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:43] The effects, the effects are still great.

[1:00:45] Like, it's, it's gorgeous.

[1:00:47] But I think we're talking about the movie and not talking about Pinhead.

[1:00:51] Yeah.

[1:00:51] So, uh, in terms of scariness, how scary is Pinhead?

Dan McCoy

[1:00:56] I'm of two minds about this because on the one hand, I find Pinhead's deal sort of confusing,

[1:01:04] which, which doesn't, doesn't scare me.

[1:01:07] Like, ambiguity can be scary.

[1:01:09] Like, mysterious.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:10] He's an angel demon exploring the border between pleasure and pain.

[1:01:12] I don't know what's confusing about that.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:14] I mean, he just wants, he wants to show you sights, Dan.

[1:01:17] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:01:17] Yeah.

[1:01:17] He used to be a World War I soldier.

[1:01:18] I don't know.

[1:01:19] I don't understand what's wrong with that.

[1:01:20] Yeah.

[1:01:21] He just, like, shows up if you do a Rubik's Cube and then he's like,

[1:01:25] Hey, like, you wanted me for some reason, even though, like, even though I'm clearly going

[1:01:30] to flay you, but that's going to be sexy to you.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:33] He's a genie who thinks that everyone who rubs his lamp is turned on by being flayed.

[1:01:38] Yeah.

[1:01:39] Basically.

[1:01:39] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:01:40] Basically.

[1:01:40] That's the best explanation of his deal I've ever heard.

[1:01:43] And it kind of makes me like him more.

[1:01:45] But I'm saying, like, confusingness isn't scary to me.

[1:01:48] Like, you know, ambiguity, all those other things are more scary.

[1:01:51] That said, like, just having, like, unasked for bondage people show up at my door, like,

[1:01:59] in my apartment, that would scare me a lot.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:01] I'd be like, what's going on?

[1:02:04] Like, I just bought this puzzle box at an antique store.

[1:02:08] I didn't ask for the rest of it to come along.

Dan McCoy

[1:02:10] I'm not saying I couldn't get into it, but this is a lot all at once.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:16] You're like, guys, are we going to a KMFDM concert?

[1:02:20] What's going on?

Dan McCoy

[1:02:22] This would be a radical shift in my vibe.

[1:02:25] And maybe you can convince me over time.

[1:02:28] But right now.

[1:02:31] Dan's wearing a lot of wet leather lately.

[1:02:33] What's going on?

[1:02:34] Oh, he's got these new friends.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:37] Like, they're either super into the Matrix or they're sent a bite.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:44] That's great.

[1:02:45] I think that adds up to a seven.

Dan McCoy

[1:02:46] That's all I'm saying.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:47] For scariness, I'm giving him a nine.

[1:02:49] Super scary look.

[1:02:51] The guys he hangs out with are super scary and weird.

[1:02:55] And they think that you're going to like the things that they're doing to you, which makes it scarier to me.

[1:03:02] That it's like, ooh, I'm doing you a favor by torturing you.

[1:03:06] This is going to be fun for you.

[1:03:08] But he loses it a little bit for me from – because they gave him a backstory.

[1:03:12] And I don't want to know where he came from.

[1:03:14] And so that the more I know about him, the less scary he is.

[1:03:16] If I know – it's the same thing that gets me about a lot of these characters from movies is once you start telling me their names and I have to think about how they have a birthday and possibly a social security number, that makes it less scary to me.

Stuart Wellington

[1:03:26] Yeah, well, that's the thing.

[1:03:28] I'm going to give him a nine, but it is one of those things where part of the appeal is the idea that I am drawn to knowledge of the forbidden.

[1:03:38] I'm drawn to the things you shouldn't know.

[1:03:42] And so it's scary that that could lead to you getting your skin ripped off.

[1:03:45] But the ironic side is the more you find out, the less exciting it is.

Elliott Kalan

[1:03:50] Yes, much like NBC told us in those PSAs, the more you know, the less scary something becomes.

[1:03:55] About Pinhead, the less scary it is, yeah.

[1:03:57] But no, still pretty good.

[1:03:59] Pinhead, he did one of those.

[1:03:59] He goes, hey, I know you want to know all about where I'm from and what my deal is.

[1:04:03] You don't.

[1:04:04] It's going to make me a lot less interested, a lot less scary.

Dan McCoy

[1:04:06] Well, that's why there are all those signs that say if you see something about Pinhead, say something about Pinhead because the more you say about Pinhead, the less scary he is.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:14] Well, and as Heisenberg told us, the more you observe about Pinhead, the less scary he is.

[1:04:20] The less you observe.

[1:04:21] So our act of observing him affects his actual experience.

[1:04:25] Yeah, that's his uncertainty unibite.

[1:04:27] His cenobite uncertainty principle, yeah.

[1:04:30] Now, I think.

[1:04:31] You cannot observe and be afraid of them at the same time.

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:34] No.

[1:04:35] So far, Pinhead's doing pretty good, and I think he's going to do pretty well in this next category.

[1:04:38] That's star power.

[1:04:39] How much star power does our boy have?

[1:04:42] Or are they them?

[1:04:43] I can't remember.

[1:04:44] There's a.

[1:04:45] Yes.

[1:04:46] In the reboot.

[1:04:46] That's true.

[1:04:47] It's an androgynous.

[1:04:49] They're an androgynous character, right?

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:51] Yeah.

[1:04:51] I haven't seen the reboot, so possibly.

[1:04:53] I could be wrong.

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:54] Please correct me in the comments.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:56] But I'm going to say 10 out of 10 with star power.

[1:04:58] Anytime a character is a supporting character in a movie and then takes over the series, they have to have a certain amount of inborn star power.

[1:05:05] In my mind, there is this direct connection between Pinhead and Rob Halford from Judas Priest, and I don't know why other than that they're just kind of thin, tall, balding British gentlemen who wear leather.

[1:05:19] Who?

[1:05:19] A lot of leather, yes.

[1:05:21] A lot of leather.

[1:05:21] And Rob Halford to me is an enormous star.

[1:05:25] He's the metal god.

[1:05:26] He's the metal god.

[1:05:26] So even if Pinhead is just kind of leeching off of that association, that still grants them an enormous amount of star power.

[1:05:35] Yep.

[1:05:35] Yeah.

[1:05:36] So 10 out of 10.

[1:05:37] I'm giving 10 out of 10 for star power.

Dan McCoy

[1:05:39] Hellraiser as a series, I think it's weird because it starts with, I think, an unusual amount of ambition for this sort of thing.

[1:05:48] I mean, because Clive Barker himself is behind it.

[1:05:51] And then as the series goes on, it becomes one of the junkiest, schlockiest of these long-running things with just whatever crap.

[1:06:00] So, again, there's like an effect of like the aggregate taking, you know, what would be a higher score down.

[1:06:08] But I do think that Pinhead, despite that, has such a unique look.

[1:06:13] You know, it's like, what the hell is this thing?

[1:06:15] Like, what's going on here with this man who is like bisected by pins on his head?

[1:06:22] I'll give him an eight.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:24] So, I think even in those later ones, Pinhead in those later Hellraiser movies, it's like Joan Crawford in Trog or like Marlon Brando in The Island of Dr. Moreau.

[1:06:32] You're like, this is slumming, but this is a star.

[1:06:35] Like, I see that this is a star and I see why they were a star.

Stuart Wellington

[1:06:38] And I'm also going to throw in there, I'm giving Pinhead 10 out of 10.

[1:06:42] Part of it is also, he's got like that super deep, sexy voice that's like, that should be so soothing.

[1:06:50] But there's also like an alien quality to it.

[1:06:53] It's amazing.

[1:06:53] Like, as soon as he shows up, you're like, that's why like a million shitty bands have sampled fucking Hellraiser clips for their songs.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:01] Yeah, what a, yeah.

[1:07:03] And he's not afraid to share the spotlight.

[1:07:06] He's got his, but he also has an entourage.

[1:07:08] And so, like, a lot of these, he can, you know, he's the leader of a group and that's got star power in it right there.

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:15] Yeah, he's got Chatterbox, Butterball, and Lady Cinebite.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:19] Lady Cinebite, no name given.

[1:07:22] And CDhead, right?

[1:07:23] Well, it's Creole Lady Cinebite.

[1:07:25] It's what?

[1:07:26] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:26] Creole Lady Cinebite.

[1:07:30] Oh, there's a good parody song in there.

[1:07:32] I need to hear the melody.

[1:07:33] Okay.

[1:07:34] So, okay.

[1:07:36] Pinhead's doing really well.

[1:07:37] Yeah, yeah.

[1:07:37] Get your skin all off.

[1:07:39] Yeah.

[1:07:41] Elliot, why don't you give us a number?

[1:07:43] Get your skin all off.

[1:07:45] Cruel Lady Cinebite.

[1:07:48] Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum.

[1:07:53] Owie out.

[1:07:54] Okay.

[1:07:55] We've got time for this mini to keep doing that parody, right?

[1:07:58] Yeah, we can really workshop this one.

[1:08:00] Let's, yeah, let's call Lin-Manuel Miranda to jump in here.

[1:08:03] Okay.

[1:08:05] Elliot, pick a number between 1 and 14.

[1:08:10] 10.

[1:08:11] Oh, okay.

[1:08:12] This is actually, this might be a challenge.

[1:08:16] On a scale of 1 to 10, how good do you think Pinhead could be a great guest on WTF with Marc Maron?

Elliott Kalan

[1:08:23] Oh, I mean, I'm going to give that a 10.

[1:08:25] That's not difficult to me at all.

[1:08:26] Yeah, yeah.

[1:08:27] The stories they've got, that the, you know, just how lucidly and articulately Pinhead is going to be able to talk about that.

[1:08:34] And, you know, at some point, Marc Maron used the limit configuration, was mean to Pinhead, pissed them off.

[1:08:40] And now Marc Maron's like, do we have beef?

[1:08:42] What's our beef?

[1:08:43] Except the problem is going to be.

[1:08:45] Yeah, yeah, who are Pinhead's guys?

[1:08:46] Well, unfortunately, Marc Maron's going to be, where are you from?

[1:08:48] Who are your guys?

[1:08:49] What did your parents do for a living?

[1:08:50] And I don't want to know any of that.

[1:08:51] That's not going to be useful to me.

Stuart Wellington

[1:08:53] He also has no relationship with Lorne Michaels that we know of.

Elliott Kalan

[1:08:58] When Marc Maron starts asking Pinhead about who was the doorman at Catch or at the Laugh Factory when he was performing there, like, that'll be a problem.

[1:09:07] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:09:08] I don't know.

[1:09:10] I mean, like, I feel like Pinhead seems pretty humorless to me.

[1:09:15] So I think the conversation would be a mic dry.

[1:09:17] That's my concern.

[1:09:19] I think it'll pick up.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:20] I mean, I hate to break it to you, Dan.

[1:09:21] And even the conversations with comedians on WTF are often dry.

Stuart Wellington

[1:09:25] Wow.

[1:09:27] Okay, so let's drop a score on this bad boy.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:29] I'm going to, okay.

[1:09:31] I'll say 10.

[1:09:32] 10.

[1:09:32] Great guest.

[1:09:34] Damn.

[1:09:35] Six.

[1:09:36] If only I want to hear Marc Maron.

[1:09:37] He does this whole thing about where he's just performed and how much he liked that theater or didn't like him.

[1:09:40] He goes, so, Pinhead.

[1:09:43] Didn't know what to know about this centibite.

[1:09:44] Didn't know how to feel about it.

[1:09:46] But, you know, I was worried they were going to flame my skin.

[1:09:48] But, you know, we had a good talk and here it is.

[1:09:52] And then you hear Pinhead going, so we just start right now or are we waiting for anything?

[1:09:56] No, no, let's just go.

[1:09:57] Let's just go.

Stuart Wellington

[1:09:58] And Marc Maron's like, where do all these chains come from?

[1:10:04] Okay.

[1:10:04] Wet.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:04] Your leather is very wet.

[1:10:06] It's wet leather.

[1:10:07] I never would have thought leather would be wet.

[1:10:09] Well, you know, I live in a dimension of flesh, so things get wet and it's a constant windexing of the leather to get the gore and viscera off.

Stuart Wellington

[1:10:19] Solid scores for old Pinhead.

[1:10:20] He might be the one to beat.

[1:10:22] Okay.

[1:10:22] So, we are on our last villain for the day.

[1:10:27] And we got to round it out with a big one.

[1:10:29] That's right.

[1:10:29] Freddy Krueger.

[1:10:31] Oh, wow.

[1:10:32] Wow.

[1:10:33] Yeah.

[1:10:34] Freddy Krueger on a scale of – have you guys seen any of these movies?

[1:10:38] You ever heard of this guy, Freddy Krueger?

[1:10:40] Heard of him?

[1:10:40] Frederick J. Krueger.

Dan McCoy

[1:10:42] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:10:43] No, I think I have.

[1:10:44] Have you heard of him, bitch?

Dan McCoy

[1:10:45] I think I've seen all of them except for the lousy reboot.

[1:10:50] Okay.

[1:10:50] Unless maybe I watched that sometime.

[1:10:52] I don't even remember.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:53] Yeah, I think I've seen all the old ones.

[1:10:54] I'm going to guess you did.

[1:10:57] I've seen all the old ones and did I watch Freddy vs. Jason all the way through?

[1:11:02] I think so.

[1:11:03] Still in the theater.

[1:11:04] But Freddy Krueger is someone – one of these characters, one of many of these horror characters where I feel like the character is better than the work that he appears in, much like Sherlock Holmes.

[1:11:17] I feel like the character itself is a higher level than the actual narrative.

[1:11:24] Oh, man.

[1:11:25] It's rare that I've walked out of a Freddy Krueger movie and been like, that was good.

[1:11:28] That was good and scary.

Dan McCoy

[1:11:33] Yeah, I don't know that I've –

[1:11:34] ever found him super scary because in my mind, don't come at me.

[1:11:42] Like, I like these movies.

[1:11:43] But even the first one, the one that everyone's like, that's super scary, like, is a little goofy to me.

[1:11:50] It's, like, less goofy than later on when Freddy starts cracking jokes all the time.

[1:11:55] But, you know, those big, like, arms going across and, like, scraping the fences.

[1:11:59] You don't think that's scary?

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:00] That's not what a human arm should do.

[1:12:02] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:04] I mean, yeah.

[1:12:06] So I'm going to – I got to go with – I mean, although – although, hold on.

[1:12:11] Okay.

[1:12:12] His deal, his whole deal is pretty scary.

Stuart Wellington

[1:12:14] The whole concept of him is scary.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:16] The idea that he cannot – you cannot go to sleep.

[1:12:19] I mean, that's something you can't fight.

[1:12:21] So that bumps it up.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:22] And Dan loves to go to sleep.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:24] Dan loves to go to sleep.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:25] He's got all that time on his hands.

[1:12:27] Yeah.

[1:12:27] The – I think – so I'm going to give it three ratings, three different ratings still.

[1:12:32] One, when I was a kid, 10, super scary.

[1:12:35] Just seeing his face, very scary.

[1:12:37] And when I was a kid, Freddy Krueger was being shoved down children's throats.

[1:12:41] There were lunchboxes.

[1:12:42] There was the talking doll.

[1:12:43] For some reason, this character was trying to make the leap from horror teenager and adult viewing to family fare, family material.

[1:12:51] I'm amazed there wasn't a cartoon.

[1:12:53] Like, it seems crazy to me, but he seems so scary.

[1:12:57] As an adult, like Dan, I find him less scary than, like, off-putting in some ways.

[1:13:02] The fact that he wears a hat and a sweater and sometimes sunglasses makes it much less scary to me.

[1:13:09] Any time – like, the fact that there's a continuum between Freddy Krueger and Spuds McKenzie in terms of, like, wearing sunglasses to look cool.

[1:13:17] Yes.

[1:13:17] That makes him less scary.

[1:13:19] But the back – the idea behind him is so – and I feel like it's never been achieved as well as it really could be.

[1:13:24] The fact that he is a child molester.

[1:13:26] He is a real-life villain who was murdered and is now getting revenge.

[1:13:31] And that he's – that there's no – the fact that someone would be getting revenge who is – was already a scary person.

[1:13:38] You know, that he's not a wronged innocent.

[1:13:40] Not saying that anyone who's accused of a crime should have their house burned down around them.

[1:13:44] But the –

[1:13:45] Yes.

[1:13:45] But that there's something very scary about that.

[1:13:48] And that he strikes at young people through their dreams.

[1:13:50] It's really scary.

[1:13:51] But often the way he does that is so goofy that it's not – it's not as scary as it could be, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[1:13:57] Okay.

[1:13:57] So on scariness, where does Freddy fall?

[1:14:00] So when I'm a kid, nine.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:03] As a grown-up, I'm going to say four.

[1:14:07] Yeah.

[1:14:09] But if I was reading – I feel like if I was reading a novel with the same premise, the same character, he might be up to an eight in terms of scariness.

[1:14:18] I feel like it loses a little something by the needs of movies, which like you have to see them.

Stuart Wellington

[1:14:24] Let me text Alan Dean Foster, see if we can crank out a quick one for you.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:28] I mean, that would be amazing.

[1:14:29] That would be amazing.

Dan McCoy

[1:14:30] I'll just go down the middle at a five.

[1:14:33] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:34] Imagine how much scarier it would be if this was like a Richard Bachman novel.

[1:14:39] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1:14:39] Like if Stephen King wrote a Richard Bachman, Freddy Krueger novel.

[1:14:42] It would be scary.

[1:14:43] It would be a really scary book.

[1:14:45] Oh.

Stuart Wellington

[1:14:46] And there would be a lot of muscle cars.

[1:14:48] Yeah.

[1:14:48] So that's –

[1:14:48] Muscle cars.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:49] I'm going to be complaining about how things weren't as good as they were in the 50s.

[1:14:52] Yeah.

[1:14:52] And listening to doo-wop music and stuff like that.

[1:14:54] Sure.

Stuart Wellington

[1:14:55] Speaking in the most confusing slang you've ever dreamt of.

[1:14:59] So I will – I'm also giving Freddy a five.

[1:15:03] I feel like part of the – one of the challenges of this series is the ambition that they have kind of pushed the envelope as far as special effects in a horror movie are concerned.

[1:15:14] But like it's hard for it not to, as you said, seem a little silly or chintzy at times.

[1:15:20] I would say with –

[1:15:20] But luckily I still like them.

[1:15:22] I still think they're great.

[1:15:23] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:23] I think they're still fun.

[1:15:24] I think there's a – except for a few exceptions, I feel like for me massive special effects and horror do not fully mesh unless there's a really strong concept behind it.

[1:15:38] It's like – because I keep thinking about how they did it or – I mean it's like – or when he turns into the sexy lady with the tongue that lashes out and ties the guy to the bed, right?

[1:15:48] And it's like –

[1:15:48] That's scary.

[1:15:49] It's so silly.

[1:15:52] It's so silly.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:52] It happened to my friend once.

[1:15:54] Really?

[1:15:55] Oh, no.

[1:15:56] Yeah, yeah.

[1:15:56] He was telling me.

[1:15:57] It sounds really scary.

[1:15:59] Okay.

[1:15:59] So I think we can all agree that this next category might be Freddy's.

[1:16:04] That's right.

[1:16:05] Star power.

Dan McCoy

[1:16:06] Can we go above 10?

[1:16:07] Is that possible?

[1:16:08] Yeah.

[1:16:08] 10 out of 10.

[1:16:09] I mean iconic look.

[1:16:11] He's got the sweater, the hat, the razor gloves.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:15] The razor glove is – I can't believe we didn't talk about that in terms of scariness.

[1:16:19] That is – without that glove, I feel like Freddy does not get the chance to be in enough movies to really develop the goofy character that we've come to love.

[1:16:29] Yeah.

[1:16:30] Like that glove with the blades on it is a brilliant idea.

[1:16:33] It's great.

[1:16:33] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:16:33] And Robert Englund, you know, we got to say.

[1:16:36] Yes.

[1:16:36] Like he's got – he's bringing so much to that part.

[1:16:39] He is so good.

Stuart Wellington

[1:16:41] Yeah.

[1:16:41] He's incredible.

[1:16:42] He's by far.

[1:16:43] Yeah.

[1:16:43] 10 out of 10.

[1:16:44] 10's across the board.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:45] I would say like he is – I would put him up as probably the greatest like continuing horror character performance, you know, in building that character.

[1:16:56] But like other than – I guess I don't know if it's – I feel like the – well, I'm sure we'll talk about it at some point.

[1:17:06] But like the original performance of Leatherface is so – there's something so amazing in that.

[1:17:11] But it's hard to do a scary monster that talks and Robert Englund pulls it off really well, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[1:17:16] Man, he's so good.

[1:17:17] Okay.

[1:17:18] So let's wrap it up with a lucky dip.

[1:17:21] This might mess up Freddie here.

[1:17:23] Dan, can you give me a number between 1 and 14?

[1:17:25] No dupes.

[1:17:27] I'm supposed to remember everything we've said before.

Dan McCoy

[1:17:30] I'll let you know.

[1:17:31] I'll let you know.

[1:17:32] Okay.

[1:17:33] I'll play it safe and do 1 because I'm pretty sure we haven't done that.

Stuart Wellington

[1:17:36] Oh, man.

[1:17:38] I think he's got this one.

[1:17:39] On a scale of 1 to 10, how likely are you to want to have a beer with Freddie Cooper?

Dan McCoy

[1:17:47] I mean, look, obviously very funny guy.

[1:17:53] Got a lot of like chummy charm about him.

[1:17:57] I can see him –

[1:17:57] You know he's a good storyteller.

[1:17:59] He's a raconteur.

[1:17:59] I can see him really loving, you know, kicking back at the bar.

[1:18:04] On the other hand, he is a child murderer plus question mark.

[1:18:11] I think that that is a very trumping kind of part of it.

[1:18:17] You know, he's so charming.

[1:18:19] I'll give him as high as a 2.

[1:18:21] But that's as high as I'm willing to go.

Stuart Wellington

[1:18:24] Okay.

[1:18:25] A 2 from Dan.

[1:18:26] Elliot.

[1:18:27] You go down to your local watering hole.

[1:18:29] Do you invite Freddie Cruz?

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:31] I feel like I am going to give him a 1 in that I am not inviting him.

[1:18:35] But if I happen through some machination of whatever plot I'm in to end up at a sort of Mos Eisley cantina of horror bad guys, then Freddie is definitely –

[1:18:45] And Freddie plops down at the stool next to me, I'm definitely talking to him for a while.

[1:18:48] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:18:49] In that limited scenario, you're right.

[1:18:51] He would probably be your best choice.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:53] I normally wouldn't reach out to a murderer of any kind to come and hang out with me.

[1:18:58] But if I happen to be in this monster bar, then unless Dracula is there, then I think I'm going to talk to Freddie.

Dan McCoy

[1:19:08] Now, there's this monster bar.

[1:19:09] Does it have a novelty song associated with it?

[1:19:12] Yeah, yeah.

[1:19:14] They all went to the monster bar.

[1:19:17] Who was at the monster bar?

Stuart Wellington

[1:19:20] Elliot, while you were living in New York, there was a monster bar in New York.

[1:19:24] It was called the Jekyll and Hyde Club.

[1:19:25] You could go there any time.

[1:19:26] No, I'm familiar with the Jekyll and Hyde Club.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:27] I'm familiar.

[1:19:28] That's not exactly what I'm looking for.

[1:19:30] I never went.

[1:19:31] Did you never go to the Jekyll and Hyde Club?

[1:19:32] What?

[1:19:33] You would have loved it.

[1:19:34] You haven't lived.

[1:19:35] I went there a bunch of times when I was a kid.

[1:19:38] It is the cheesiest thing in the – or it was the cheesiest thing in the world.

[1:19:42] You would have loved it.

[1:19:42] I mean, as a kid, I thought it was cool.

Stuart Wellington

[1:19:43] I think it would have been life-changing if Dan had done.

[1:19:46] Yeah.

[1:19:46] I think the whole trajectory of your life would have been different.

[1:19:48] I kept putting it off.

Dan McCoy

[1:19:49] I was like, there'll always be time.

[1:19:51] And you know what?

[1:19:52] It's not true.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:53] That happened to me with Mars 2112.

[1:19:56] I was like, I have to experience this dumbass place.

[1:19:59] But I waited too long.

[1:20:00] Never got to go.

Stuart Wellington

[1:20:02] Yeah.

[1:20:02] I'm going to give Freddy a three.

[1:20:04] I mean, I think he's probably a good hang.

[1:20:06] The vibes are a little off.

[1:20:09] Yeah.

[1:20:09] And of course, obviously, as we mentioned, he has, let's say, a complicated backstory.

[1:20:14] And also, I feel like there's some level of him – like, I feel like he would be a pain in the ass for the bartender because he's just doing bits all the fucking time.

[1:20:22] Yes.

[1:20:23] And like, you know, sometimes I don't want to go out with somebody who's going to overshadow me.

[1:20:28] You know?

[1:20:28] Like, he's got a big personality.

[1:20:30] That can be a real drain.

Elliott Kalan

[1:20:31] So you have selfish reasons not to go out with Freddy Krueger.

[1:20:33] Selfish reasons.

Stuart Wellington

[1:20:34] Yeah.

[1:20:34] I'll admit it.

[1:20:35] Maybe I'm the monster.

Elliott Kalan

[1:20:36] I guarantee you, you'll have the experience of Freddy Krueger that I feel like I've had if I'm sitting in a bar outside of a major city where you're talking to someone you don't know.

[1:20:46] You're having a good time.

[1:20:47] You're getting along.

[1:20:47] They're real friendly.

[1:20:48] They say something that you do not approve of and you have to figure out how to extricate yourself from that conversation politely so that things don't go – don't go the way you don't want to.

[1:20:58] But you do not want to be – Freddy Krueger is going to say something where you're like, okay, I no longer want to be in a conversation with this person.

[1:21:04] Like, I can't – I don't want to silently acquiesce on that, you know?

Stuart Wellington

[1:21:08] Yeah, that's never happened to me as a bartender in New York City.

Elliott Kalan

[1:21:11] Unfortunately, you can't leave in that scenario.

[1:21:13] You have to –

Stuart Wellington

[1:21:15] So we have some big scores here.

[1:21:18] We're going to tally them up next time because we have seven more baddies to rank.

[1:21:25] I can't wait.

[1:21:26] Thanks so much for playing where this show is part of the MaxFun Podcast Network.

[1:21:31] There's tons of really fun and spooky podcasts out there for Shocktober.

[1:21:36] I am Stuart Wellington.

Dan McCoy

[1:21:38] I'm Dan McCoy.

Elliott Kalan

[1:21:40] I'm Elliot Kalin saying come on and see us October 19th at vidiots, vidiotsfoundation.org.

[1:21:46] Okay.

[1:21:47] Bye.

Stuart Wellington

[1:21:48] Maximum Fun.

[1:21:55] A worker-owned network.

Dan McCoy

[1:21:57] Of artist-owned shows.

[1:21:58] Supported.

[1:21:59] Directly.

[1:22:00] By you.

FH Mini 91 - Best Horror Villains, Part 1

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