After Last Season, with J.D. Amato

Elliott Kalan

[0:00] On this episode, we discuss, after last season...

[0:03] The movie that dares to ask the question,

[0:05] what's a movie?

[0:07] Yep.

Dan McCoy

[0:30] Hey, everyone, and welcome to The Flophouse.

[0:33] I'm Dan McCoy.

[0:34] Hey, I'm Stuart Wellington.

Elliott Kalan

[0:37] And I'm Elliot Kalin.

[0:40] And we have.

[0:40] We're pretty sedate today, I think, because of the movie you watched.

[0:44] But we do have a guest, right, Dan?

Dan McCoy

[0:45] We have a special guest.

[0:47] We've been wanting to get him on the show for a long time,

[0:51] but it had to be a very special movie and a very special reason.

[0:56] And so...

[0:57] For the season?

[0:58] Here he is.

[0:59] J.D. Amato.

[1:00] You know him from other podcasts you probably listen to if you listen to this one.

[1:06] Because they're more popular.

[1:07] You know him from...

[1:09] He was a showrunner for The McElroy Show,

[1:12] a wonderful comedy show that then disappeared from the world.

Stuart Wellington

[1:16] It was on a streaming service dedicated to comedy, Dan.

[1:19] See So.

[1:20] See So.

[1:21] Yeah.

[1:21] The name itself screams comedy.

[1:23] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:24] You know, he wrote for the new...

[1:27] What do they call the After Midnight Reboot?

[1:29] What was it?

[1:30] It was After Midnight.

[1:31] Yes.

[1:32] I was the showrunner of After Midnight.

[1:33] Yeah.

[1:34] Wow.

Stuart Wellington

[1:34] Dan has the credits in front of him and it's still totally bitterness.

S4

[1:38] It's funny because I could see Dan just kind of trying to pull what he knows from our friendship.

Stuart Wellington

[1:44] You might know J.D. from this dinner party I went to that he was at.

[1:49] You might know.

[1:50] Mutual.

Elliott Kalan

[1:51] Dan says the credits for guests the way my dad would when he was trying to tell me about restaurants he's eaten at in different cities.

[1:57] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:57] The problem is that our listenership has sort of rewarded us for the sort of ramshackle nature of the show.

[2:04] Oh, yeah.

[2:04] So we've never saw fit to get better at it.

[2:07] This is their fault.

[2:07] Yeah.

[2:08] That's the issue.

S4

[2:09] You may know J.D. from Ben Hosley's Christmas party where Stuart Dan and J.D. did a bit to avoid talking to other people.

Stuart Wellington

[2:17] Mainly argued about the necessity of video and podcasting.

[2:21] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[2:23] Welcome, J.D.

[2:25] I guess I've told the audience about you.

[2:27] Normally I might be like, say something about yourself.

[2:29] But you were so kind as to come do the show, though, after running a half marathon today.

[2:35] So thank you in particular for being here.

S4

[2:38] Yes.

[2:38] Well, there's a lot.

[2:39] Here's the context of this.

[2:40] I'm a Flophouse fan.

[2:42] I listen to the Flophouse.

[2:44] As all right-thinking people are.

[2:46] Yeah.

[2:46] Yes, of course.

[2:47] I'm an American citizen.

[2:49] I do what's right.

[2:51] And I'm a big Flophouse fan.

[2:55] We've long discussed coming on, but we had to find the right time.

[3:01] Right project, yeah.

[3:02] The right project to work together on.

[3:03] And this is a great collaboration between us.

[3:06] Yeah.

[3:06] I will say, okay, a couple of things that I think are worth noting about me coming on here.

[3:12] Number one, at said Christmas party, we discussed all of this.

[3:16] And then I texted with Dan and Stuart and was like, great, let's do it.

[3:20] I want to come on.

[3:21] And they're like, what movie?

[3:22] And I was like, this movie after last season.

[3:24] And then we had a whole text thread talking about it.

[3:26] And then we all realized if we just scrolled up, we had had this exact same conversation one year prior.

Elliott Kalan

[3:33] That is the most after last season thing that could have possibly happened.

[3:37] Yeah.

[3:38] Very fitting.

Dan McCoy

[3:39] Well, and the most us, like, just forgetting.

[3:42] Well, that is true.

[3:43] Yeah.

[3:43] Totally.

Elliott Kalan

[3:44] I mean, Dan lives what I would call a Groundhog Day existence, you know, day in, day out, forgetting what he did the day before.

[3:51] Actually, more of a blank slate existence, I guess.

Dan McCoy

[3:54] Or a 50 first dates existence.

[3:55] I mean, this is 100% true.

[3:58] I, now that I have had a diagnosis, I've learned that, like, ADHD has a lot of memory problems associated with it.

[4:07] Yeah.

[4:07] So, I like to attribute it to that now, I guess.

[4:10] But, like, I do remember the names.

[4:12] Dan, you explained your ADHD memory thing last episode.

[4:15] Oh, my God.

[4:15] Don't you remember?

[4:18] But I do remember the names of actors in movies.

[4:22] That's true.

[4:23] For some reason.

Elliott Kalan

[4:23] When we recorded, so we recorded some episodes out of order today to accommodate that JD was literally running a race this morning.

[4:31] Yeah.

[4:31] And we record, we did a mini about Stephen King movies that will come out next week.

[4:36] And Dan's memory for the Stephen King movies that he had seen is really phenomenal.

[4:40] It's really astonishing.

Stuart Wellington

[4:41] I think he, I think Dan had seen almost every of the 74 movies I mentioned.

Elliott Kalan

[4:47] Yes.

[4:48] So, get ready for that next week.

[4:49] But this week, we're talking about after last season.

[4:52] Because, Dan, what do we do on this podcast?

Dan McCoy

[4:54] This is a podcast where we watch a movie that was either a critical or commercial flop.

[5:00] And then we talk about it.

[5:01] I mean, I don't know that.

Elliott Kalan

[5:02] I love the circling locutions that Dan goes through to avoid saying bad these days.

[5:06] It's very sweet of him.

[5:08] It's very nice.

Dan McCoy

[5:09] I don't want to take anyone down that doesn't need to be taken down.

[5:12] This is a movie that, like, honestly, normally would be in, you know, small timber or small member, as Elliot prefers.

[5:19] As all right-thinking people say.

[5:21] But, you know, we wanted to have JD on.

[5:24] And this is near and dear to his heart.

[5:27] I'm led to believe.

[5:28] So, what brought this into your life, Judy?

Elliott Kalan

[5:31] Yes, yes.

[5:32] Before we get into the movie, what's your relationship with After Last Season?

S4

[5:35] Okay.

[5:35] Well, first, I want to appreciate Dan for not saying that it's a bad movie.

[5:39] Because I think it's a good movie.

[5:42] And you're right that you cover movies that are either critical or an artistic failure.

[5:48] And this is just, this was one that just financially didn't make its money.

[5:52] But otherwise, I, listen, I love movies.

[5:57] And, guys, this is a good movie.

[6:00] This is a great movie.

Elliott Kalan

[6:01] I'm so excited to hear your argument as we go through the movie about what makes this a good or great movie.

S4

[6:07] So, here is my initial experience with this.

[6:09] So, I'm a big movie head like y'all.

[6:12] Yeah, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[6:12] And if we take our, we travel back in time to the year.

S4

[6:16] The year is 2009.

[6:18] Wow.

[6:18] And the way that you learned about us coming.

Stuart Wellington

[6:20] I've only been podcasting for two years at that point.

S4

[6:26] There are only three podcasts in existence.

[6:28] And this was one of them.

[6:30] And the way you learned about movies that were coming out was through Apple trailers.

[6:35] At least that's how I did in my contemporaries.

[6:37] Is you would go to apple.com slash trailers.

[6:40] Yeah.

[6:40] And every whatever, like once a week, they would drop a bunch of trailers.

[6:44] And you'd be like, ooh, this is going to be like a cool season of movies or whatever.

[6:48] I loved it.

[6:48] Yeah.

[6:49] I was in college.

[6:50] We had it so good, guys.

[6:52] We had it so good.

[6:52] You went to one place and you got to see all the trailers.

[6:55] Yeah.

[6:55] And then people made sure to make cool trailers.

[6:58] Yeah.

[6:58] And if your internet was bad, it took you a long time, but you still got to see the trailer.

[7:02] Yes.

[7:02] You'd click on the trailer and you got to choose.

[7:05] Am I going to wait 40 minutes for the high quality?

[7:08] Am I going to wait 20 minutes for the medium?

[7:10] Or in five minutes, am I going to watch the low quality and not be totally sure who's in the movie?

[7:14] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[7:15] Yeah.

[7:16] If it ain't Lord of the Rings, give me the fastest one.

Elliott Kalan

[7:18] Yes.

[7:18] You said to yourself, how much time do I have to wait to find out who's in G.I. Joe, The Rise of Cobra?

[7:23] I need to figure this out because I need it fast or I need it better.

[7:28] Furious, yeah.

S4

[7:29] And I need to figure out how, when, and why Cobra is rising.

[7:33] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[7:34] Ironically, Cobra falls in that movie, which the trailer wouldn't tell you.

[7:38] The trailer really makes it look like they rise.

S4

[7:40] Yeah.

[7:42] We can talk about that movie now also.

[7:44] We can get into the Rise of Cobra as well.

Stuart Wellington

[7:45] No, no.

[7:46] I still have a sore spot with that one because that was the one where I made a joke that the American people would never elect a president with crazy hair.

[7:54] You were wrong.

Dan McCoy

[7:56] Egg on my face.

Elliott Kalan

[7:58] So, in the year is 2009.

[8:00] You're clicking onto apple.com slash trailers.

[8:03] What do you find, J.D.?

[8:04] Okay.

S4

[8:06] The big upcoming movie that everyone was talking about was Spike Jonze's Where the Wild Things Are.

[8:12] Sure.

[8:13] He was directing an adaptation of Where the Wild Things Are.

[8:15] And among the, I was at NYU, a young film school lad with eyes as big as dinner plates looking to the horizon of cinema.

[8:24] Yeah.

[8:24] And Spike Jonze, the master of art and weirdness, was going to cover Where the Wild Things Are.

[8:30] So, the trailer drops, which I will say, my hot take is I think the best film of 2009 was the trailer to Where the Wild Things Are.

[8:38] Okay.

[8:39] Interesting.

[8:39] The trailer has a bespoke arcade fire song that was like an acoustic version of one of their hits.

[8:46] And it had all this imagery of where the, I don't know that Where the Wild Things Are didn't quite hit me.

[8:51] The movie itself didn't hit me the same way that the trailer hit me.

Dan McCoy

[8:54] It has a melancholy sadness that I wasn't necessarily looking for out of Where the Wild Things Are.

[8:59] You wanted twee joy exclusively.

[9:02] Yes.

Elliott Kalan

[9:03] Well, you wanted something.

[9:04] I mean, there are things I admire about that movie.

[9:07] But I think you wanted the movie to, in some way, represent the feeling of the book, Where the Wild Things Are, which is not about the regrets that adults have, that childhood is ending, necessarily, you know.

S4

[9:19] Totally.

[9:19] And the thing about this project is that there wasn't much about it out in the world, right?

[9:24] So, the things that we knew is we knew some of the cast.

[9:27] And it was like a lot of folks that were like, it wasn't like a huge big name because it was mostly monsters and a kid.

[9:32] We knew that the Jim Henson Company was making the puppets.

[9:34] It was like all this mystery shroud.

[9:36] So, when the trailer dropped, everyone was like, whoa.

[9:39] This is like we're getting our first hints into this.

[9:41] Also, in 2009, a big thing is that this was the era of Lost.

[9:45] This was the era of the internet being a resource under which people did like alternate reality experiences and like stunt marketing stuff.

[9:53] And so, at the same time, the same moment that the Where the Wild Things Are trailer released, right next to it on Apple trailers, was a trailer for a movie called After Last Season.

Stuart Wellington

[10:04] And when you probably start with A's after Where the Wild Things Are.

[10:08] Exactly.

S4

[10:09] Exactly.

[10:12] Yeah, they did it based on like seasons and verbs and adjectives.

[10:16] So, when you watch the trailer, the trailer has a quality to it that felt almost like that like twee, Spike, Jones, confusing strangeness.

[10:30] And it has some of its weird digital effects and all.

[10:32] And it's like the lines that are being said don't seem to connect.

[10:36] And it's shot in such a way that you are unable to discern whether this is intentionally supposed to be a movie or not.

[10:42] And so, the internet, I remember, became a flutter with the theory that this movie perhaps was an alternate reality promo for Where the Wild Things Are.

[10:53] And so, people were poring over it trying to like Google lines and see if like some of the things they were saying were related to Where the Wild Things Are in some way.

[11:01] They're like, this weird trailer came out.

Elliott Kalan

[11:03] Occam's Razor tells us that it must be a prank from that notorious trickster Spike Jones to in some way draw attention to his movie by drawing attention away from his movie when there was already a trailer for his movie.

[11:16] This is very internet film nerd thinking, I think.

S4

[11:19] Yes, totally.

[11:19] The feeling that like anything that I experience has been tailored for me and is someone speaking to me.

[11:25] Yes.

[11:26] And so, of course, that was not the case.

[11:28] And then what happened was people going, what is this movie?

[11:32] Because it was like the only title card was a production company called Index Square.

[11:38] And then it seemed to be directed by someone named Mark Region, which is a name that feels almost writerly in its simplicity.

Stuart Wellington

[11:47] Yeah, it feels like something you would call out if you were working on a ship or something.

Dan McCoy

[11:51] It turned out that is like a pseudonym, but not for Spike Jonze.

S4

[11:56] Yes, exactly.

[11:58] And then there are rumors.

[11:59] I remember there was rumors that the film was only screened once in like Maine.

[12:04] And everybody died in the theater.

[12:06] Exactly.

[12:07] And if you met someone who saw it, then you were going to die too in 24 hours.

[12:12] And that it was like a dentist that paid for it.

[12:15] And then like over the years, more and more information came out about like who this guy was that wrote, directed, shot, and produced the film.

[12:22] And like what was real and what wasn't real about it in terms of there's a lot of rumors of it costing millions of dollars.

[12:30] And it was a very strange thing that unfolded.

[12:32] But very quickly, it was unable to be seen anywhere.

[12:35] I believe in total, there were only four public screenings of it ever.

[12:40] And then there's no way to view it digitally or buy it or purchase it or see it online.

[12:45] So it became one of these movies that's just known as being this strange curio that no one can really wrap their hands around.

Elliott Kalan

[12:51] And in the absence, of course, of it being available, everyone assumes it must be amazing in some way or other.

[12:57] Sure.

[12:57] You know, the idea that the thing that is not available could be maybe not worth the time of watching it is an idea that I think in film people, if they can't watch something, they jump to the conclusion, obviously, this must be a singular experience.

[13:11] You know, it must be.

[13:12] I mean, it is a singular experience.

[13:13] It is a singular experience.

[13:14] It is a singular experience.

[13:14] That's true.

[13:15] It seems like you don't like art.

[13:17] It must be it.

[13:18] It must be it.

[13:20] But it turned out so but this movie is in the pocket of big Hollywood.

Stuart Wellington

[13:24] Yeah, clearly.

Elliott Kalan

[13:25] I am in the pocket.

[13:26] I'm in the pocket of well-made films.

S4

[13:30] Elliot's Elliot's working for big Hollywood and they're scared like a movie like this is going to get the ball rolling again.

[13:35] People thinking outside the box.

[13:37] You're trying to put it back in the box.

Elliott Kalan

[13:39] I am literally working on I think what is the ironically the opposite of this which is a Ghostbusters television show as opposed to this which is a kind of maybe has a ghost in it homemade not quite story.

[13:51] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[13:52] Wait, there's a ghost in this?

[13:53] Taping up printer paper on things.

[13:55] Yeah.

S4

[13:56] Elliot, we're going to be on the lookout if there's a Ghostbusters episode that includes a paper mache fucking MRI.

[14:03] A ghost that seems to push aside objects on the floor very slowly as it walks towards you.

Elliott Kalan

[14:10] To be honest, I wish I had seen this movie before we started writing the series because I definitely would have put something in.

[14:16] For who?

[14:17] For us.

S4

[14:18] There's no one that will have watched that.

Elliott Kalan

[14:20] No.

S4

[14:20] No one would be like, oh, that's an after last season reference.

Elliott Kalan

[14:23] It's a little wink to his boys, us.

[14:26] Exactly.

[14:26] The same way that – so the one – there are two jokes on the Netflix Mystery Science Theater.

[14:31] There are two jokes in the first season.

[14:33] I think it was the first season that I fought so hard for.

[14:36] And one of them was a reference to Idle El Calvino's novel, The Non-Existent Night.

[14:40] And that was just for me.

[14:41] That was for nobody else.

[14:42] And the other one was a reference to the jingle for a hotel in the Poconos called Mount Airy Lodge that this commercial used to run all the time in the tri-state area.

[14:52] And I had such a big argument with the other people on the show because they're like, cut that joke out.

[14:57] Nobody's going to get that joke.

[14:59] It's a waste.

[14:59] It's a nobody – nobody's going to get that.

[15:01] And that's the one joke I hear about the most from people.

[15:04] They go, oh, I really love that Mount Airy Lodge joke because it hit just the right people.

Dan McCoy

[15:08] It seems weird to me that anyone – like to have Joel back on the show and be like – people were like, that joke's too obscure.

[15:17] Because I feel like that was what I loved about the original Mystery Science Theater.

[15:19] Joel wasn't the one right.

Elliott Kalan

[15:20] When there was a joke that Joel – even Joel didn't get the reference, he'd go, it's okay, man.

[15:24] It's texture.

[15:24] It's cool.

[15:25] So he didn't have a problem with it.

[15:26] It was the cast was like, why are we doing this?

[15:28] I was like, you're not saying the jingle right.

[15:30] And the cast were like, who cares?

[15:31] Let's not do this joke.

[15:32] It's stupid.

[15:33] No one's going to get it.

S4

[15:35] I will say Mystery – the Netflix Mystery Science Theater was my – it was my comfort watch during tumultuous years where I would –

[15:41] Oh, thank you.

[15:41] Every Sunday I would get my black and white cookie.

[15:44] Uh-huh.

[15:44] Yeah.

[15:45] Like a flat cake, you said.

[15:46] Like a flat cake.

[15:47] Yeah.

[15:47] And I would eat that and I'd fall asleep with the dulcet tones of Mystery Science Theater.

Stuart Wellington

[15:52] Yeah.

[15:52] How do you guys feel on black and white cookies?

[15:54] They're a big hit in the Wellington house.

Dan McCoy

[15:57] So I am not from the East Coast, so I don't have any like –

[16:00] Oh, you don't say.

[16:04] Really?

[16:04] Brooklyn Dan?

[16:05] I didn't even know what that means.

[16:06] That is such a specific –

[16:08] I don't have like a specific like nostalgic fondness for it and I'm not a fan of cakey cookies.

[16:16] So it's not for me.

[16:17] I'm fondant for it.

Elliott Kalan

[16:18] Is it – but you were a fan of Cakey the character in the – in that movie when Cakey got bakey.

[16:24] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[16:24] Okay.

[16:25] I was a big fan of the line Cakey got bakey specifically.

[16:27] I mean I mainly ask because I feel like Elliot has opinions being from New Jersey.

Stuart Wellington

[16:31] Oh, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[16:32] I mean black and white cookies, I don't always want them, but when I want them, I want them bad.

[16:35] Yeah, you shouldn't want them all the time.

[16:37] That's bad for you.

[16:38] No.

[16:38] But just seeing –

[16:38] No.

[16:39] They're sometimes food.

[16:40] When I see them in the pastry case of a diner or a deli, it doesn't make me very happy just to see them there, just to know they're there.

Stuart Wellington

[16:45] Yeah.

[16:46] Especially when they're not like wrapped up in plastic like Laura Palmer.

Elliott Kalan

[16:51] Well, yeah.

[16:52] That's –

[16:53] That would be crazy, right?

[16:55] You don't – that's how you know that Bob has been in the deli or diner.

[16:58] Yeah, exactly.

Stuart Wellington

[16:59] Or how you know that Laura Palmer is chock full of preservatives, you know?

[17:03] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[17:03] Now, JD, I know from your many appearances on Blank Check that you are sort of an expert in like film innovations.

[17:13] Sure.

[17:14] Different like film tech.

S4

[17:15] I'm a fan.

[17:16] I'm a fan of people innovating in cinema.

Dan McCoy

[17:18] Yeah, like technologies.

[17:20] Now, what would you say about after last season in terms of the filming techniques and styles?

Elliott Kalan

[17:27] Well, I think that's the kind of thing we should talk about while we talk about the movie because I think most people probably have not seen this movie.

[17:34] Yeah.

[17:34] And I think it's hard to know – it's hard to really get a sense – I will say this about the movie.

[17:38] It's an experience.

[17:39] And it's hard to really understand what this movie is without watching it.

[17:43] The same way we were talking about – I think when Evan Dworkin was here, I think we were talking about One Cut of the Dead, which is a similar movie where you kind of have to watch it to experience it and get what it's doing.

[17:52] I would argue that that's a really good version of it while this is – I'm not so sure.

S4

[17:57] I don't know that I would say you can watch this movie and even understand it or get what it's doing.

Elliott Kalan

[18:04] I don't think you get what it's doing, but I think you get how it feels to watch it.

[18:07] And so let's talk about it a little bit.

[18:09] And, J.D., as we're going through, I want you to point out, yeah, the parts where you're particularly finding the filmmaking particularly interesting or innovative or exciting.

[18:17] So after last season, we start with the title.

[18:19] It appears on the screen in pieces very slowly.

[18:22] And then we have a scene that there's a lady scientist or a doctor I guess who's very slowly explaining how it works and giving an MRI to a patient with Parkinson's.

[18:31] The room is nearly empty.

[18:32] Let me just set the scene for you.

[18:34] They're in a nearly empty room.

[18:36] There are pieces of paper with printouts of MRI images taped to the walls.

[18:39] And there's an MRI machine that appears to be made out of just white cardboard.

[18:43] Papercrafts.

[18:44] Papercrafts, yeah.

S4

[18:45] What type of room would you describe it as?

[18:46] Not even white.

[18:47] Is it a hospital room?

[18:49] Is it a doctor's office?

Elliott Kalan

[18:50] That's a good question.

[18:51] The prominent existence of a ceiling fan in the room and the way the blinds and the floor and everything about it, it feels to be more of a guest room that has been – had the furniture taken out.

[19:02] Oh, yeah, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[19:03] And I want to clarify something.

[19:04] I don't believe this is an MRI machine made of white cardboard.

[19:08] It is a MRI machine made of, I would assume, cardboard that has had sheets of white paper taped over it.

Elliott Kalan

[19:15] It looks like they've covered the cardboard with white printer paper to make it look the color of normal MRIs, which is blinding white.

Stuart Wellington

[19:22] You know, I assumed that they had an actual MRI machine that was just covered in corporate logos and they're like, we don't have clearance for this, so we got to cover it in paper.

Elliott Kalan

[19:31] That's not possible, yeah.

[19:32] When you hold the MRI machine, make sure to have your hand over the label because we don't have the rights to show the brand.

[19:37] Now, there's a lot of shots –

Stuart Wellington

[19:38] It's covered in like stickers like Kaneda's motorcycle.

Elliott Kalan

[19:41] Now, I should mention there are a lot of shots of walls, window shades, a fan, a door.

[19:49] And so even scenes that you –

[19:50] Texture.

Elliott Kalan

[19:50] Even scenes that you think would be just dialogue between two characters will often be intercut seemingly at random or arbitrarily by shots of objects or walls, locations.

[20:01] And the – I read an interview with the director actually where he talked about using that to show that time had passed.

[20:09] Yeah.

[20:09] But this does not actually – there's not internally true.

[20:12] Well, here's that.

[20:13] Often time has not passed in those scenes.

S4

[20:15] Well, what I'd like to point out is that in film, we have a phenomenon known as the Kuleshov effect, right?

[20:22] Yes.

[20:22] Yes, of course, yeah.

[20:23] Where you can put by cutting –

Elliott Kalan

[20:24] If you put sunglasses on anything, they turn cool.

[20:27] Yes, exactly.

S4

[20:29] And Top Gun really showed that off.

[20:31] The Kuleshov effect is you take two images and you put them next to each other.

[20:36] The audience will draw a meaning.

[20:39] It'll add meaning between the two shots.

[20:40] So the great example would be like, oh, if you show a neutral-faced man was the original sort of test of it.

[20:46] But then you show some audiences a baby as the next shot.

[20:50] The audience will be like, oh, the man's like worried about the baby.

[20:52] Or if you show –

[20:53] He wants to eat that baby.

[20:54] Yeah.

[20:54] Yes.

[20:54] If you show food, it'll be like, oh, the man's hungry.

[20:57] And so the Kuleshov effect is when you cut two images that might not be related together, the audience draws distinction between them.

[21:03] I would like to posit the first advancement that After Last Season makes is what I would like to call the region effect.

[21:09] Which is Mark Regin has found a way to cut things together to actually take information away from the scene.

[21:18] And makes things –

Elliott Kalan

[21:19] He's breaking the Kuleshov effect.

[21:21] Yes.

[21:22] You are losing the connection you would have had between things that are logically connected.

S4

[21:26] You have a scene that you did understand.

[21:28] And then through the region effect, you no longer understand what's going on.

Elliott Kalan

[21:32] You know what?

[21:33] You won me over.

[21:34] Now I like the movie already.

[21:37] Because you're right.

[21:38] The movie is constantly daring you to find what's happening in it.

[21:44] You know, it's constantly throwing chaff in your face as if the movie is trying to escape from you and is throwing sand at you to blind you so that it can leave.

[21:52] It's skittering away from you.

S4

[21:55] Another thing that I like to point out in this first scene.

Elliott Kalan

[21:57] It's like trying to hold a block of – like a little – it's trying to pick an ice cube up off the floor.

[22:01] Yeah.

[22:01] That's what this movie is like.

[22:03] But your hands are made of lava.

[22:05] Yes.

Stuart Wellington

[22:06] It's the raccoon putting cotton candy in a puddle and then it disappears.

Dan McCoy

[22:11] Did that happen?

Stuart Wellington

[22:12] You haven't seen that video in the unit?

[22:13] Yeah, it's very sad.

[22:14] I haven't seen that video.

[22:15] Because then he's like slapping the puddle like, where'd my cotton candy go?

[22:18] Yeah.

[22:18] Yeah, this delicious cotton candy.

[22:20] It's like the saddest thing in the universe.

[22:22] That's what watching this movie is.

Elliott Kalan

[22:24] So, yes.

[22:24] So, raccoons and cotton candy and puddles aside, that doesn't happen in this movie.

[22:28] That would be the most exciting thing that would happen in the entire movie.

[22:30] We then go to Dr. Marlin.

[22:32] This is a neurosurgeon.

[22:33] He brings in two med students.

[22:35] One of them is a woman named Sarah who's going to become a major character and takes a long time explaining to them why you would use an MRI.

[22:42] Now, this would lead you to believe that the MRI is going to be a big part of the movie.

[22:46] No, it is not a big part of the movie except for these sequences.

[22:49] This is intercut with – there's a woman having –

Stuart Wellington

[22:51] Well, first I thought this was just that I accidentally loaded up an MRI –

[22:55] Just too high.

[22:56] Like a demo reel.

[22:58] Like a tech demo.

[22:59] Yeah.

[22:59] So, you purchased –

[23:00] It's very early days because they didn't have the actual MRI.

S4

[23:03] Or like a rehearsal for a tech demo for an MRI.

[23:05] Yes, thank you.

Elliott Kalan

[23:06] You're thinking of purchasing the KlaxoCotec MRI.

[23:09] Well, here's the starter model that we'd like you to take home for a little bit and see if you're ready for it.

[23:14] That's what it feels like.

[23:16] So, this scene is intercut with a couple other scenes.

[23:19] A woman is having a boring phone call in the hallway.

[23:21] And a man is sitting alone in his apartment.

[23:23] We're later going to learn this man is named Ed Brown.

[23:26] But when we're introduced to him, he is just a man who is writing, looking around, sitting down, gets up, sits down again.

[23:31] And sporting a very British belt.

S4

[23:33] Yes.

[23:34] There's definitely a Captain Britain belt going on.

[23:36] That seems heavily featured to the point that you – it begs the question, is this man British?

[23:41] The answer is no.

[23:42] No, he's not British.

Elliott Kalan

[23:43] But he may have been there at some point.

[23:45] We get a lot of talk later in the movie about places people have been to or through, but we never find out where he's been.

S4

[23:51] I also would like to point out another thing that Regin does that I think is actually innovative directorially.

[23:57] Okay.

[23:57] And something that I like is that in movies, I think it's really great texture when you leave in – you know, as we talk amongst ourselves as real humans in the world, we don't get everything.

[24:05] We mess things up.

[24:07] Oh, yeah.

[24:07] We stop and start.

[24:08] You call teacher mom.

[24:09] You call mom teacher.

[24:10] Yeah.

[24:10] You know?

[24:11] There is a moment in this first scene where an actor just does a retake of a line.

[24:17] The actor forgets a word and it does a retake right live in the moment, and it's left in the movie.

[24:22] And I like that because that's real life.

[24:23] That's real life, yeah.

[24:24] We say the wrong thing.

[24:25] I take retakes all the time.

Elliott Kalan

[24:26] I mean, my understanding of the movie is that Mark Regin thought that making it feel real or feel like real life would mean leaving in mistakes,

[24:34] having characters talk about banal things that are completely unrelated to the movie.

[24:37] We'll get to it later, but one of the most exciting parts of the movie is a woman telling a story about going to dinner with a friend

[24:43] and her friend discovering that she's allergic to shrimp by ordering a shrimp dish and having an allergic reaction to it.

[24:48] And while you're like – this has – this doesn't have anything to do with anything.

[24:53] This is just a conversation.

[24:54] I'm just watching a conversation.

[24:56] Like I'm just watching people kill time, having a conversation that neither one of them are actually that interested in.

[25:01] And that feels – that could feel very real.

[25:03] And, of course, everything is done with this air of you're watching aliens trying and failing to integrate themselves into human society without anybody noticing.

Stuart Wellington

[25:12] Yeah.

[25:12] It does feel like the most boring person you've ever met at a dinner party suddenly got to script out a whole movie.

[25:19] Yes.

[25:20] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[25:21] Also, apparently, like the lines were sort of untethered in time.

[25:26] Like if he had several lines in the same room, like they wouldn't be like recorded like by scenes so the actors could get like an idea of what they were acting about.

[25:36] It would just be like, okay, like run through all the lines for this setup or whatever and they would just be cut together later.

Elliott Kalan

[25:43] Apparently also the lead – I was reading something by one of the lead actors in an interview and he was saying that it was very cold when they were shooting.

[25:50] And so often they were having trouble saying the lines because they were so cold.

[25:54] And they would have to run in between takes to a heater that they had set up.

[25:59] Yeah.

[25:59] And also that if an actor was not on screen, they would be off trying to warm up and they would not be feeding their lines to the other actor.

[26:07] So it was literally – they were literally having trouble saying the lines in a natural way because they were so cold.

[26:12] So there's that too.

S4

[26:13] Which I think is an efficient way to make a film.

[26:15] And on top of that, I would say that based on all of this, I think we can agree.

[26:20] And this is Elliot's thought and I'm just going to underline it.

[26:22] And I agree with you, Elliot, that this Mark region is dedicated to realism.

[26:27] This film is all about realism and capturing the real human experience.

Elliott Kalan

[26:34] I mean, I don't know about the real human experience because it's also about –

[26:37] having a dream about stopping a murderer using microchips on your temple.

[26:42] But it is very much about capturing people sitting in cheap rooms talking about nothing, which is much of human life.

Dan McCoy

[26:51] Well, you would think that if you were shooting a movie –

[26:54] J.D.'s looking around, what are you saying about my room, J.D.?

[26:56] Oh, no.

[26:57] Those in grass houses.

[26:59] I feel like J.D. –

Elliott Kalan

[27:00] I thought J.D. was looking around saying, yeah, get it, guys.

[27:02] You agree with me, right?

[27:03] He's saying what I'm thinking.

Stuart Wellington

[27:04] Like a normal slash boring filmmaker, if they were facing budgetary limitations and had to, I don't know, decorate most of the room using paper squares, they might not cut away to shots of said paper squares.

[27:17] To call attention to it.

[27:18] We simply draw attention to it.

[27:19] But no, Mark Regan's like, you know what?

[27:20] This is real life.

[27:22] This is the grit.

Elliott Kalan

[27:23] I would argue it's the opposite.

[27:24] This is a Brechtian thing.

[27:26] These are distancing effects.

[27:27] He is drawing attention to how fake this all is, the artifice, whereas a lesser movie like Taxi Driver is striving for a sort of realism so that you believe these are real characters in a real city having real emotions.

[27:39] Whereas this, a greater work of art, is showing you it's all fake and there's nothing here.

[27:45] Yeah.

[27:45] It's refusing to allow you to invest yourself.

[27:47] Moving on.

[27:47] I got to keep moving on the plot because we're like five minutes – less than five minutes of the movie.

[27:52] So the point is we're watching three things happen.

[27:55] A woman's having a boring phone call.

[27:56] Ed Brown seems to hear something and wanders around that sits down again.

[28:00] And the surgeon is telling his residents about schizophrenia and different types of schizophrenia and people hear voices.

[28:07] Then Ed Brown calls the library.

[28:10] He hears a knock on the door.

[28:11] We go to the woman on the phone.

[28:12] She stumbles on a man's dead body.

[28:14] It's Ed Brown.

[28:14] It's his dead body.

[28:16] We cut to two women talk about their family histories and towns they've been in.

[28:20] One compliments another's radio clock.

Stuart Wellington

[28:22] Well, she's never been to that town, right?

[28:24] But she has driven through it.

Elliott Kalan

[28:25] She's never been to that town, but she's been through that town.

Dan McCoy

[28:28] There's like a lot of early scenes where I'm like, okay, they're establishing these characters.

[28:32] They're establishing things.

[28:33] This will come back.

[28:34] And then I believe that certain of these characters we see in these early scenes are not seen again.

Elliott Kalan

[28:38] No.

[28:39] These two characters are Sarah's roommate and another woman.

[28:43] And she goes, oh, yeah, I have this roommate, Sarah.

[28:45] Sarah walks in.

[28:46] She's the med student we saw earlier.

[28:47] The woman talked about a patient they knew who had nerve damage in her hand.

[28:51] Sarah walks through the room, leaves the house while those women are talking about their apartments and how big they are.

[28:56] We go to then the very, let's just say, unrealistic looking headquarters for the Pro Rollis Corporation, which is I think maybe my favorite fake name for a company I've ever seen in a movie.

[29:06] Let's also stipulate.

[29:07] It doesn't even sound like anything.

Dan McCoy

[29:09] Now that there's – so when there's a sign identifying this as the Pro Rollis –

[29:14] Pro Rollis Corporation.

[29:16] Corporation.

[29:16] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[29:17] This –

[29:18] We have to assume founded by Gerald Pro Rollis.

[29:21] They do this by –

Dan McCoy

[29:22] Like John Outterbridge or whatever.

[29:24] Exactly.

[29:25] Like just like, you know, a font is superimposed on the thing – the outside of the building as if it is a sign on the outside of the building.

[29:33] But I'm like – but it looks like there's – our credit's still going on.

[29:37] Yes.

[29:38] Like this is like sponsored by the Pro Rollis Association or something because it's just like a title card.

Stuart Wellington

[29:44] Yeah.

[29:44] In a way, isn't that like – isn't that what paint is in the real world?

[29:48] Good point.

[29:48] Thank you.

[29:50] Good point.

Elliott Kalan

[29:50] Paint is just like credits that have been slapped onto buildings.

S4

[29:53] Yeah.

[29:53] And Regent is giving us all – giving us as an audience all time because the audience at that point is all sharing stories about what their radio clock looked like when they grew up.

Elliott Kalan

[30:02] And what towns they've been through.

[30:04] Now, here's that, Stuart.

[30:05] I will say that the Pro Rollis Corporation is deposited to be like a large pharmaceutical or medical technologies company.

[30:11] Their signs usually are not painted on the front of the buildings that are usually made out of like three-dimensional materials that are affixed to the front of the building.

[30:19] You look dumb now.

Stuart Wellington

[30:20] Yeah.

[30:20] I'm just kind of like a regular blue-collar Joe.

[30:23] So, I don't understand those like high-minded things.

[30:25] Yeah.

S4

[30:25] All your signs are painted.

[30:27] All Stuart's small town corporations.

[30:29] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[30:29] All you know are hot dog stands and car garages.

[30:32] Yeah.

[30:33] So, they go – so, there's a man there, Matt.

Stuart Wellington

[30:34] Just give me a six-pack and my dog back in my truck.

[30:37] I'm happy.

[30:38] So, a man will learn as Matt.

[30:39] About to write a country song.

Elliott Kalan

[30:40] I mean, do you have a dog?

[30:43] You don't have a dog.

[30:43] You have a cat.

[30:45] I mean –

[30:45] Two cats.

[30:46] Two cats.

[30:47] I feel like this is –

[30:48] Wait a minute.

[30:49] You don't have a truck.

[30:50] You have a Jeep.

[30:51] Hold on a second.

[30:52] Stuart, all this time I thought you were a down-home country boy.

[30:54] Yeah, I know.

[30:54] It turns out you're an urban sophisticate.

Stuart Wellington

[30:57] Yeah, I'm a grifter.

Elliott Kalan

[30:59] There's also – can I –

[31:00] Wait, you're a grifter from Wildcats?

Stuart Wellington

[31:01] Oh, wow.

[31:02] I'm a grifter from Wildcats.

[31:03] How do you keep your mask on?

Elliott Kalan

[31:04] It just hangs in front of your face.

Stuart Wellington

[31:06] I tie it behind my head.

[31:08] My name is Cole Cash.

[31:09] I think that was his name, right?

[31:11] I think that was it.

Elliott Kalan

[31:12] Certainly Cole something.

[31:14] He's the alien.

[31:14] He doesn't know.

[31:14] Why was he called grifter, Elliot?

[31:16] He grifts.

[31:17] Anyway, moving on.

[31:19] Do you guys want to talk about Wildcats?

[31:21] So they're Wild Covert Action teams, I think.

[31:25] Oh, yeah.

[31:25] Yeah.

[31:26] So anyway, so a man, Matt, he reads a printed out news article.

[31:29] This – a lot of people online will say, oh, it's supposed to be a newspaper and it's

[31:33] clearly a printout.

[31:34] The director has stated this is supposed to be an article printed out from Yahoo News.

[31:37] Which we all do.

[31:38] Which we all do.

[31:39] And certainly in 2009, we were still doing that.

Stuart Wellington

[31:42] And then he had it converted to text to print out, right?

Elliott Kalan

[31:44] Yes.

[31:44] So the news article says that that dead man from earlier is the third murder victim discovered

[31:49] recently.

[31:49] Sarah shows up.

[31:50] She's a new intern at ProRollis.

[31:52] She runs into Matt.

[31:53] They talk about the woman who discovered Ed Brown's body, another student.

[31:56] And she hands him a questionnaire she filled out and they plan to continue the research project

[32:00] that he is running that she's a part of.

[32:03] Then when Sarah goes to a lecture in a room that I would call unfinished where a professor

[32:08] talks about –

[32:09] So critical of all these rooms.

[32:09] Interesting.

[32:10] I mean the thing is it feels like they were going out of their way to find rooms that

[32:16] did not look like real places that humans exist in.

[32:18] And if there's anything I feel like you can find, it is a room.

[32:21] People live in them.

[32:23] They have them in their houses.

[32:25] Buildings are full of them.

[32:26] They're one of the basic building blocks of society.

Stuart Wellington

[32:26] Maybe that's kind of what the ProRollis Corporation is going for is trying to create an environment

[32:31] that you might not have already seen before.

[32:33] Maybe.

[32:33] Maybe that's sort of a separate –

S4

[32:35] Just because you're good at finding rooms doesn't mean that the average person is as good

[32:39] as you.

[32:40] So I feel like you have to sort of like –

[32:42] Readjust your calendar.

Elliott Kalan

[32:43] And it's not like this is the movie The Room, which is full of rooms.

[32:46] You know, this is a different kind of movie.

[32:48] So Sarah goes to a lecture about brain function.

[32:53] Then – so this part, from my notes, it's clear that I was unclear what's going on.

[32:59] There's a woman.

[32:59] I think it's Sarah.

[33:00] She's like in a home and she looks at a piece of furniture and Dr. Marlon walks in

[33:04] and the woman says there was a cup on a cabinet.

[33:07] And then it turns out I think that they're looking at objects from Ed Brown's apartment.

[33:10] Then we cut to a shot of an overhead fan.

[33:13] And then the doctor is back in his fake MRI room examining a woman whose nerves are healing

[33:18] from a grafting operation.

[33:20] She can lift her arm higher.

[33:21] Yeah, she can lift her arm higher.

[33:22] Her foot still doesn't feel great because that's where they took the nerves from.

[33:25] But she says she's willing to take the numbness in the foot to get the movement back

[33:28] in her arm.

Dan McCoy

[33:29] Not since Twin Peaks are there so many cutaways to ceiling fans.

S4

[33:33] There's also a moment where there's – I swear to God, there's one shot where there's

[33:37] a digitally inserted shadow behind a woman.

[33:40] That's possible.

[33:40] Did you notice this?

Elliott Kalan

[33:41] I did not notice that.

[33:42] But I'll also mention – I watched this on YouTube, so it wasn't the best transfer.

[33:46] When I found out this movie was shot on 35 millimeter, which it does not – they did

[33:50] not take advantage of the format.

[33:51] I know what you're talking about, J.D.

Dan McCoy

[33:53] I was like, is this – is everything behind this person like green screen?

[33:59] Because the shadow looks so weird and digitally.

[34:02] But then I'm like, they're just in a room.

[34:04] They wouldn't have green screened that.

S4

[34:06] It looked like one of the demons from Ghost.

[34:08] Yeah.

[34:08] You know, that like crawls on – yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[34:10] Maybe it was foreshadowing of where the movie is going.

[34:12] So this movie – I should mention also by this point, there's –

Stuart Wellington

[34:14] Speaking of foreshadowing, the shadows in this movie are pretty crazy, right?

Dan McCoy

[34:18] It made me think about how few shadows I see in other movies unless they specifically

[34:23] are like the point of this is shot as a shadow.

[34:25] Yeah, yeah.

[34:26] Unless – yeah, I like Baldwin's blasting dudes.

Elliott Kalan

[34:29] Yeah, and reading minds, yeah.

[34:30] I should mention that at this point, there's been almost no background music.

[34:35] And the movie –

[34:35] Almost, though.

[34:36] Almost.

[34:37] Every now and then there's like a – like a slightly dramatic two tones on an electric

[34:43] piano.

[34:43] Some really like squanchy like MIDI sounds or something.

[34:45] Yeah, and there will be long sections later where not only is there no music, but the

[34:49] sounds seem to be – the room tone of whatever room maybe it was being edited in, there's

[34:56] just kind of like either pipes behind walls or just kind of that blurbly sound you get

[35:01] from poor audio, you know.

Dan McCoy

[35:02] Certainly late in the film, there's a scene where you hear, I think, the outdoor traffic

[35:08] noise whenever someone talks.

Elliott Kalan

[35:10] Yes, that's true.

[35:10] And there is also a scene where there's a handheld camera and you can hear the footsteps

[35:13] of the man walking with the camera, which I think is very funny.

[35:16] But anyway, so back from that riveting scene of the woman being examined for her nerve damage

[35:21] in her arm, Matt talks on the phone.

[35:23] This is genuinely a very funny scene.

[35:27] Matt is talking to someone on the phone who needs help finding a printer.

[35:29] And Matt is just telling him where there are printers.

[35:32] And I think this is a line that was in the trailer where he goes, oh, yeah, there's

[35:34] printers in the basement.

[35:37] And this is – this is, again, the movie is daring to call attention to how much of

[35:42] the sets are printed pieces of paper by talking about printers.

[35:46] But Sarah calls home.

[35:47] She has a similarly banal conversation about school and someone she hasn't seen in a while.

[35:51] Then her roommate walks in and tells her story about having dinner with a friend who suddenly

[35:54] developed an allergy to shrimp.

[35:55] I think this is the closest thing to a tight, tense narrative in the entire movie is the

[36:00] story her roommate is telling about another character we never meet discovering they have

[36:04] an allergy to shrimp.

[36:05] And they both talk about the towns they grew up in.

[36:08] Matt sets up – now the movie is really kicking into gear.

[36:11] This is when the story really starts up.

[36:13] What gear would you describe it as?

[36:14] Low.

[36:17] First, maybe neutral.

Dan McCoy

[36:19] Before the movie had been rolling backwards down a hill and now they hit the emergency

[36:25] brake at least.

Elliott Kalan

[36:26] I mean they're kind of pressing down slightly on it so that it falls back less.

[36:32] So Matt sets up a room for a psychology exercise.

[36:34] We know this because he puts a piece of paper that says psychology exercise on the door.

[36:38] He reads an article about a device that reads brain signals.

[36:41] And then Sarah shows up for the experiment and he explains – it takes him a long time to

[36:45] explain this – they're testing computer chips that all they have to do is hold them to

[36:49] their temples and then one of them can read the other one's thoughts.

[36:52] It's not a two-way, two-direction thing.

[36:55] One of them will read the thoughts of the other.

[36:57] They start the trial.

Stuart Wellington

[36:58] They make a lot of effort to make sure that the audience understands there's no potential

[37:03] negative side effects of this technology.

[37:06] Yes.

[37:07] That's good to not worry.

[37:09] Because I'm sure they knew the audience would be concerned because they're like, I've seen

[37:14] things like this.

Elliott Kalan

[37:16] I've seen movies where someone gets a chip on them and they get Johnny Mnemonic, suddenly

[37:20] they're on the run.

[37:21] No, don't worry.

S4

[37:21] Like, don't worry.

[37:22] There's not going to be any drama.

[37:23] No.

[37:24] And what's cool is that this movie lives in a world where the technology is so advanced

[37:28] that this microchip is so compact and the technology is so advanced that it almost looks like,

[37:33] you know, just one of those post-it sticky notes that you use to like mark a science textbook.

[37:37] It almost looks like you're holding just that up, but it's actually this advanced microchip.

Elliott Kalan

[37:41] You know what, Dan?

[37:42] What you said reminded me, there's the scene in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy where it

[37:45] says there's too much stress in the universe.

[37:47] So just to tell you, when these missiles are flying towards a spaceship, we're just going

[37:50] to tell you nobody's going to get hurt.

[37:52] It's going to be okay.

[37:53] This movie is kind of like that.

[37:54] The movie is like, don't get excited.

[37:56] Don't worry.

[37:57] Nothing will happen.

[37:59] So, but this is when we really get into the meat of the movie.

[38:01] Yes.

[38:02] They start the trial and he says, now Matt is going to give her prompts that she has

[38:07] to imagine.

[38:08] And we're going to see those imaginings presented as computer generated animated images.

[38:13] And this is where apparently the bulk of the reportedly $5 million budget for the movie went

[38:18] to.

Dan McCoy

[38:18] You put your finger right on like, so yeah, they said that it was a $5 million budget.

[38:23] You're watching the movie.

[38:24] You're like, where's this money going?

[38:26] $5 million is not enough to make a printer paper.

[38:30] But then apparently that's where like, supposedly it's these computer generated segments.

S4

[38:36] I mean, I would say this is that if you look at the computer images in this film, I think

[38:43] an untrained eye might think that they look almost like maybe a camera shooting a screen

[38:51] while like a RAM cache playback render on Maya is playing back to sort of like rough parts

[38:58] of a basic animation.

[39:00] But if you actually understand cinema tech and film and what goes into it, you know that

[39:05] that region is operating at a level that's beyond that.

[39:08] Because here's the thing, they're describing things and then you see shapes that are close

[39:15] to those things.

Elliott Kalan

[39:16] I would say not necessarily close.

[39:19] But you are seeing shapes.

[39:21] I do know that apparently this apparently was reported that Weta really went hard after

[39:25] Mark Regan to reveal where he got the technology to do these amazing things.

[39:30] And he refused, you know, a lot of rumors about how it made it.

[39:33] So they strapped him.

S4

[39:34] They chained him up in a basement.

[39:35] He wouldn't bend after weeks.

Dan McCoy

[39:37] I don't want to jump ahead too much, but there's a later scene where like, you know, someone

[39:41] is kind of being threatened within the world of this like lawnmower manny world.

[39:45] Yeah, it's money for nothing.

[39:47] She like has to like throw something at the person threatening.

[39:52] It's like she bats the square at him.

[39:55] Yeah, she ponds it.

[39:56] It's totally weightless manner that is just so funny to me.

S4

[40:00] Well, in this scene that Elliot's describing, did you guys have this?

[40:02] I had this where there's a moment where birds come on screen and I thought there were birds

[40:06] in my apartment because it was so realistic.

[40:08] I was touching the screen.

[40:10] I was like, oh my God, this is the movie.

Elliott Kalan

[40:12] Now we're having a lot of fun here.

[40:15] But just to be serious.

Dan McCoy

[40:17] Elliot needs to set a baseline of reality.

Elliott Kalan

[40:21] I don't want the audience to be like, oh, I got to see these amazing effects.

[40:24] It looks, these are the kind of effects that would have been incredibly impressive in like 1978,

[40:29] potentially, you know, 1980.

[40:31] I mean, even then.

[40:32] To be honest, even then.

[40:33] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[40:34] There's a moment where he's like, imagine a letter rising out of like a flat plane.

[40:40] And she goes, from the alphabet?

[40:44] It is very funny.

[40:44] As if he was asking her to like, I don't know, describe like a piece of postage.

Elliott Kalan

[40:49] So Sarah's thoughts, so he goes, imagine a shape.

[40:53] This is our, so when we get the first CGI scenes, which is rectangles zooming around,

[40:57] they're changing shape and size.

[40:58] A cylinder arrives and Matt goes, wow, that worked really well.

[41:01] I saw a cylinder.

[41:02] And Sarah goes, oh no, I was imagining a basket, which is one, a basket is not a shape,

[41:06] but also like the idea that these amazing chips don't work that well.

S4

[41:11] But no, here's the, if I say, think of a shape, immediately you guys all thought basket.

[41:16] Yeah, it's a common shape.

Elliott Kalan

[41:19] Then we go through a lot more of these CGI brain reading tests.

[41:22] We see cubes, orbs, birds, flowers.

[41:24] I mean.

[41:25] And finally, a man being stabbed, which startles Sarah.

[41:28] But Dan, what were you going to say?

Dan McCoy

[41:29] Well, to be mildly fair to a movie that maybe doesn't require it, as they practice using

[41:36] these chips, like the things start looking more like actual.

[41:39] They look more realistic is what you're saying.

[41:41] They still, I mean, they still look bad.

Stuart Wellington

[41:43] When she sees the man being stabbed, she describes features on him that are not even reflected in

[41:49] the image.

S4

[41:51] Yes.

[41:52] She says specifically she can see the pupil in his eye.

Stuart Wellington

[41:56] And I couldn't.

[41:57] I could barely.

[41:57] No.

[41:57] It took me a while to understand they were even people.

Elliott Kalan

[42:00] Now, I think there's something to be done.

[42:02] I see what they're going for, which is that like they start out with simple shapes and it's

[42:05] becoming more and more detailed, more and more complex.

[42:07] Yeah.

[42:08] But.

[42:08] Beautiful.

[42:09] It still always looks like crap the whole way through.

[42:11] Like it just still really looks bad.

[42:12] So, but she startles Sarah and she goes, I didn't think of that.

[42:15] It just appeared.

[42:17] And pretty quickly they come to the conclusion that this was a vision of Ed Brown's murder.

[42:21] And she goes, oh yeah, I had a vision of his murder before it happened too.

[42:24] And Matt is like.

Stuart Wellington

[42:25] That was the interesting.

[42:26] That's the twist there.

Elliott Kalan

[42:28] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[42:28] Even before we had brain reading chips, she started having premonitions of murder.

Elliott Kalan

[42:33] And I was like, did I miss a scene.

[42:35] Why did she stop it?

[42:36] Where they set this up in any way.

[42:38] I did not miss a scene, I think, where they set this up in any way.

[42:41] Matt figures they can use her visions to stop the next murder.

[42:45] All they have to do is keep doing the same boring stuff they've already been doing.

[42:49] So now we get a very long sequence punctuated by shots of walls and empty rooms and what

[42:54] appears to be a kitchen storage area.

[42:56] As she visualizes CGI shapes that become cars driving around, then weird trees next to a

[43:01] road.

[43:02] Cool cars.

[43:02] This all feels like, and this all feels like demo sampler stuff.

Stuart Wellington

[43:05] And wait, the, the, the kitchen, you said a kitchen storage area.

[43:09] It, it looks like it's a room with carpet.

[43:12] That seems like a bad place to store your like drying dishes.

[43:16] Right?

Elliott Kalan

[43:16] But there are racks of dishes there.

[43:18] Yeah.

[43:18] Okay.

Stuart Wellington

[43:19] The cars seem fast and cool.

Elliott Kalan

[43:21] The cars, the cars seem like, I mean, the cars seem like future cars.

[43:24] But you know, and so CGI house, CGI woman throwing cubes at something, as Dan mentioned.

[43:30] And finally, through the wall comes a faceless knife wielding killer.

[43:34] It's not really a knife.

[43:34] It's a spike.

[43:35] It looks like he ripped it off a stegosaurus's tail.

Stuart Wellington

[43:37] And by faceless, like other than before, other than this character, the characters that

[43:43] are presented, the digital characters are hyper realistic.

[43:46] This one has like a face like Cobra Commander's mask.

[43:49] Right?

[43:49] Yes.

Elliott Kalan

[43:49] It's like a mirror just for a face.

[43:51] Yeah.

[43:51] And this happens and the killer attacks the CGI woman.

[43:54] And my favorite part of this is this is Sarah's describing the one.

[43:57] She goes, it's a woman.

[43:58] She's wearing some sort of blouse, which is like not the most important detail, not really

[44:03] represented by what we're seeing.

[44:05] But so now we see a man in that kitchen storage area calling through a door for someone named

[44:09] Angie.

[44:11] And then Matt walks into the test room and says he just found out a woman was stabbed in

[44:15] a house.

[44:16] And so I guess that Angie was the woman who got killed that they saw the vision of.

Dan McCoy

[44:19] He was listening to the police scanner, I guess.

Elliott Kalan

[44:22] He kind of like, I guess, was driving by that house.

[44:24] And I don't know.

[44:25] They go back to the test.

[44:26] What else can you do?

[44:27] They go back to the test.

Stuart Wellington

[44:28] So did time pass between this?

[44:32] How did he find that information out?

[44:34] It appeared.

[44:34] Is he like checking the citizen app?

S4

[44:36] The region effect.

Elliott Kalan

[44:37] You're all victim to it.

[44:38] Yeah.

[44:38] I think he says something about driving past the house.

[44:41] But as far as we know, we didn't even see him leave that room, which we don't have to

[44:44] see.

[44:44] It feels like, but let's think, it feels like we are in a timeless space where they are

[44:48] experiencing the same moment for eternity, but they're free to leave and expand that moment.

[44:53] However, it's really disorienting, this whole movie.

[44:57] Then they go back to the test.

[45:00] They see some CGI fish.

[45:01] Then we have point of view footage of someone walking around outside.

[45:05] And it's a lot of shots of chairs and hallways and walls and our leads sitting there not talking.

[45:11] And then CGI shapes with ambiguous room tones and then chairs again.

[45:14] And this goes on for like 15 minutes.

[45:16] Like this is a huge chunk of the movie.

[45:18] It's really, it's a whole lot of nothing.

[45:20] Eventually.

[45:22] The CGI cones.

[45:23] Interesting.

[45:24] They arrange themselves in the human shape.

[45:25] And the faceless stabber is outside a door marked psychology exercise.

[45:29] Oh no.

[45:30] That's where they are.

[45:31] He must be right there outside their door.

[45:32] We know that sign.

[45:33] We know that sign.

[45:33] We've seen it.

[45:34] That's good filmmaking.

[45:34] Our heroes open their eyes and the door slowly opens and closes seemingly by itself.

[45:39] There's nobody there.

[45:40] Then chairs and other objects in the room start moving very slowly on their own.

Stuart Wellington

[45:45] Now, JD, as a filmmaker, how challenging is it to make believable ghost effects like this?

S4

[45:53] Yeah.

[45:54] I think this scene rips legitimately.

[45:56] I think this is a great scene.

[45:58] I will say the fact that they don't just have the door open as though someone is walking in.

[46:03] Instead, it sort of like teeters back and forth and then opens an amount that a person might not be able to slide even through.

[46:10] It's actually an interesting choice because you're not sure what's going on, which creates suspense.

[46:13] It's really mystifying.

[46:15] The effects, for example, you're seeing a lot of the door.

[46:19] I'm going to say you're going to see 40% of the door.

[46:22] At least, yeah.

[46:23] Which if there was actually someone like a crew member moving it, there's a good chance it would be in that 40%.

[46:29] So when I see this, I'm like, I don't understand how they're doing this.

[46:33] Is there an actual invisible man?

[46:35] And then you're seeing some of this stuff.

[46:36] You see a chair move and you see the top 80% of the chair.

[46:39] And I'm like, statistically, if someone's going to move that chair, they're touching the top.

[46:43] So the fact that it's moving.

Stuart Wellington

[46:45] I was texting with a friend of the pod, Todd Vaziri, who's done a lot of visual effects work.

[46:50] And he's like, I don't know how they did this.

Dan McCoy

[46:52] This is mystifying.

[46:53] I got to say, there's a part later on in the movie where I think it's later on where they're like asking the ghost to move something.

[47:01] And the ghost's like, that's too heavy.

[47:04] I'm going to move this ruler instead.

[47:05] I'm like, that is 100% the filmmakers being like, okay, well, I don't know.

[47:09] The fishing line that we have here isn't good enough.

Elliott Kalan

[47:11] It's so funny because it's such an unforced error because the movie does not need to introduce an object too heavy for the ghost to pick up.

[47:17] It could just not do that.

[47:19] But that's realism.

S4

[47:20] Yeah.

[47:20] That is realism, though.

[47:21] If you were confronted with a ghost, you'd be like, pick up my couch.

[47:25] And the ghost would be like, I can't do that.

[47:27] I'm not fucking taking from small wonder.

[47:29] Vicky, the ghost would say.

Elliott Kalan

[47:32] In real life, ghosts have limits to what they can do.

[47:35] So it's realistic.

[47:35] Unlike Vicky, who's limitless.

[47:37] Vicky can do anything.

[47:38] She took the pill.

[47:39] She's limitless.

Dan McCoy

[47:41] Vicky on a limitless pill.

[47:43] Oh, my God.

[47:43] Oh, wow.

[47:44] That should be illegal.

[47:45] That is illegal.

[47:46] Luckily, it is illegal.

Elliott Kalan

[47:48] Anyway, I guess what we're saying is.

[47:50] What we're saying is.

[47:50] I'm a one-issue voter.

[47:53] Keep limitless pills away from that little girl.

[47:57] It's a robot.

[47:58] It's a little girl.

[47:59] J.D., why did you vote for Trump three?

[48:01] J.D., why did you vote for Trump three times?

[48:03] He's strong on Vicky not getting that limitless pill.

[48:05] He said Vicky and the pill, they're in different states.

[48:09] He said he wasn't going to let it happen.

[48:11] Never the plane shall meet, he said.

[48:13] Yeah.

[48:13] Wow.

[48:14] That's pretty poetic.

[48:16] So back to the movie.

[48:17] So what this scene lacks in clarity, it also lacks in drama.

[48:20] So it's got that.

[48:21] So the chair and the office, they're moving on their own.

[48:24] Suddenly Matt shouts as if he's been stabbed, but he's fine.

[48:26] There's no wound.

[48:27] Then Sarah shouts and blood appears on her sleeve.

[48:29] Oh, no.

[48:30] There's an invisible attacker in the room.

[48:32] They do what anyone would do in this case.

[48:35] They line up plastic bins in a line to try to block the attacker.

[48:39] The attacker instead of just.

Stuart Wellington

[48:40] They also do not communicate in any other way, really.

Elliott Kalan

[48:42] No, they do not speak to each other.

[48:44] They don't figure out the situation.

[48:46] They do not leave the room or even attempt to leave the room at this point.

[48:48] They try later.

[48:50] But they line up these bins in a straight line.

[48:54] You, the invisible attacker, you would not walk around those bins.

[48:56] You would move each one very slowly, one at a time, to show you are getting closer to your victims.

[49:01] And then he knocks down Matt and he attacks Sarah.

[49:04] Oh, no.

[49:05] Oh, no.

[49:06] Sarah, she's going to be killed by this invisible attacker?

[49:08] That's what you think.

[49:09] No.

[49:10] Because Matt wakes up and Sarah walks in and Matt tells her, I just had this dream where we're using telepathy chips.

[49:15] And then Ed Brown's murderer came after us.

S4

[49:19] And I'd also like to point out that, number one, that scene is legitimately tense.

[49:23] There's a lot of energy there.

[49:26] To your point.

[49:26] I would say a lot of energy.

[49:28] The invisible attacker, you said, jumps on them.

[49:32] What happens is he gets close enough and then it seems he minorly cuts both of their arms.

[49:37] And they both go, ow, but then stay where they are while the invisible.

[49:42] And then the thing that I like to imagine watching that scene is what is the invisible attacker doing?

[49:48] Because it seems like he slowly opens the door, closes it, opens it, moves the chair to a side, walks to the left, scoots the one box, walks forward, scoots the other box, scoots the other box, then walks up, pauses in front of the one.

[50:02] And then the other guy sort of nicks him with the knife and then moves.

[50:05] It's asking a lot of questions that as an audience member, we get to imagine the result.

Elliott Kalan

[50:10] We get to make up the story.

[50:12] Like we're collaborators in this.

Stuart Wellington

[50:13] On some level, the stuff that you said that preceded this, the 15 minutes of boring stuff, that was to add more weight to this moment.

[50:23] So you're like, oh shit, now things are getting crazy.

S4

[50:27] And now it makes sense because you, and also you're like Elliot, you were like,

[50:31] I don't know what's going on.

[50:32] This seems random.

[50:33] This seems crazy.

[50:34] Well, every writer doesn't leave a thread that leaves nowhere.

[50:39] Region pays off.

[50:40] It seemed nonsensical because it was a dream.

[50:43] Because it was a dream.

[50:45] 30 to 40 minutes of the movie were a dream.

Elliott Kalan

[50:48] The last, yeah, 30 to 40 minutes were a dream.

[50:50] So you think, oh, this movie was all a dream.

[50:52] No, the movie continues after the dream.

[50:55] To tell a slightly different, slightly similar story.

[50:58] Like life continues.

[51:00] After dreams.

[51:02] Tell it doesn't.

[51:03] So they go to a different, and now they go on to doing a different psychological experiment.

[51:08] This time she's asking him opinion questions that I think she just made up.

[51:12] I think she says I made up these questions.

[51:14] Eventually they hear a sound and they run out.

[51:15] There's a man in the hall who has stabbed a lab worker.

[51:18] And he's saying, what are the last six digits of the access code?

[51:20] What are the last six digits of the access code?

[51:23] Matt and Sarah run back into their room.

[51:24] But the killer follows.

[51:26] A chair moves on its own.

[51:28] But wait, he's not dreaming anymore.

[51:29] The chair knocks out the killer.

[51:32] And Sarah calls the police on her phone.

[51:34] And then a disembodied voice tells them, hey, can you hear me?

[51:37] Some people can hear me and some can't.

[51:39] I can move some objects.

[51:41] She goes, lift my backpack.

[51:41] He goes, that's too heavy.

[51:43] But I can lift this ruler.

[51:44] And they realize that this is Craig, a previous victim of the killer.

[51:48] And then he seems to vanish.

[51:50] Oh, wow.

[51:51] Pro-rull-less security shows up.

[51:53] The killer is put in a room in front of a piece of paper that says cell one.

S4

[51:58] Implying that there's other cells.

[51:59] Implying that there's other cells, yeah.

[52:00] It's world building, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[52:02] And there's an FBI agent who I think is, he's the MRI patient from the beginning of the movie, right?

[52:06] Oh, yeah.

[52:06] Because he has a noticeable tremor in his hand from the Parkinson's that he has.

S4

[52:09] Are you saying that FBI agents can get sick or have issues?

Elliott Kalan

[52:12] No, I'm just saying that they're paying off this character from earlier who had not appeared in the movie after that first scene.

[52:19] Yeah.

[52:19] And he explains over the phone the most dramatic way to explain anything, as we saw in the Lucille Ball movie that came out a couple years ago.

[52:28] The most dramatic way to explain something is to have someone tell you over the phone.

[52:31] Explains that the killer is Eric Nelson, a former Pro-rull-less employee who had been hired to steal research materials.

[52:37] That's why he needed the code, and all his victims had worked on the same project.

Dan McCoy

[52:42] Case closed.

[52:43] Why would they get someone who used to work there but doesn't know the code?

[52:48] Maybe he lied about it.

[52:50] Maybe he lied about it.

[52:51] Yeah.

S4

[52:51] Something interesting worth noting is that he's looking for the code, but we see several staff members enter the facility,

[52:57] and it seems that they hold up what appears to be a Panera gift card for a red light.

[53:02] The red light remains red, but the door opens.

[53:04] Yeah.

[53:05] So he was searching for a code, and the entire time, he just needed one of those gift cards.

[53:08] Like a dongle, yeah.

[53:09] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[53:10] My guess is that he said to them, I have the code.

[53:13] I used to work there.

[53:14] But then when he went, they changed the code since after they fired him, and he goes, uh-oh, I need the code now.

[53:18] Nothing to do but murder people.

Dan McCoy

[53:20] Yeah, because in his exit interview, he talked about how he's going to get into stealing secrets after this.

Stuart Wellington

[53:26] Well, that's when they upgraded their security from a code-based system to a gift card-based system.

[53:31] So he's still, like, he's just yelling into this-

[53:34] That's company.

[53:35] Gift card reader.

[53:36] That's company script.

[53:37] A code.

Elliott Kalan

[53:37] 7, 3, 8, 4, 9, 2.

[53:40] And also, he needs the last six digits.

[53:42] This is a long code.

[53:43] This is a long code.

[53:44] To have to put into a door.

[53:45] Yeah.

S4

[53:45] I mean, Pro Rollus is a pretty serious place.

[53:48] Yeah.

[53:48] I mean, Pro Rollus, that's why they-

[53:50] You guys are-

[53:51] It's not called amateur Rollus.

[53:53] It's kind of bothering me, because you guys are acting like they still have the code system.

[53:56] The whole point is that they also saw that it didn't make sense.

[53:58] They changed it to other systems.

Elliott Kalan

[54:00] But he got into the building somehow without knowing they don't have a code system anymore.

[54:04] Because he's still killing people asking for the access codes.

[54:07] So, back to the lady with arm nerve damage.

[54:09] She has her follow-up appointment with the doctor from earlier.

[54:12] She's doing better.

[54:12] Arm much higher.

[54:13] Yeah.

[54:13] She is doing-

[54:14] Her arm can get up higher.

[54:15] Sarah goes to a computer and thinks about the ruler that moved before.

[54:19] And Matt talks on the phone about the killer.

[54:21] And then, this is my other favorite part of the movie.

[54:23] Actually, I have three favorite parts of the movie.

[54:24] The printer conversation.

[54:26] The shrimp allergy conversation.

[54:27] And this conversation where he's like, yeah, there was this killer.

[54:30] He killed Ed Brown.

[54:31] And the conversation veers into, oh, yeah, I have a friend whose brother lives near some hot springs.

[54:35] Yeah, I think my uncle goes there sometimes.

[54:37] It's a tourist like it.

[54:38] They have a lot of tourist stuff there.

[54:40] And the conversation-

[54:40] Oh, it's so good.

[54:41] This is like a real conversation.

[54:43] It doesn't stay in one subject that's related to the movie.

[54:45] It veers off to an unrelated conversation.

[54:48] Later, Matt is on his computer.

[54:50] It appears that a coat falls off the wall and Matt calls out for Craig.

[54:54] No response.

[54:54] Sad.

[54:55] Finally, we're at the end.

[54:57] We're in the homestretch of the movie.

[54:58] Sarah and another woman.

[55:00] Is this the woman with the arm damage?

[55:01] I couldn't tell.

[55:02] They're at a house talking about the neighborhood, the work that they did on the house, where certain pictures were taken.

[55:07] One of the pictures they look at is of Craig, who would have been graduating from the med school program soon if he was still alive.

[55:13] Makes you think, doesn't it?

Stuart Wellington

[55:14] What I like, they're having a conversation in one of the rare outdoor shots.

[55:18] And one of the characters, they're standing on like a pathway, like a stone pathway leading up to a front door.

[55:24] And one of the characters just like walks a few feet into the snow and then walks back and then they enter the house.

[55:31] So I'm like, you just want to get some snow on your boots?

[55:33] What's going on?

[55:34] Now-

Elliott Kalan

[55:34] Usually, now in every bad movie that's low budget, there are scenes where through either bad writing, bad acting, bad directing, whatever reason,

[55:41] where human behavior doesn't quite match up with the real life behavior.

[55:44] And I have to say, this is maybe the movie where I've seen the most of this, where characters do stuff like that, Stuart, where I'm like,

[55:51] I don't know what possible reason a human would have to do that thing.

[55:54] Like there's something about this behavior that is, there are actors doing it as if this is a thing that makes sense, but it's not making sense at all.

[56:00] Yeah.

S4

[56:01] Now, be honest.

[56:03] Be honest.

[56:04] Yeah.

[56:04] I know the masculinity, you know, there's a lot of gender norms.

[56:08] Who cried when they saw Craig?

[56:11] Who cried when you saw Craig and learned that he would have been graduating that day?

Stuart Wellington

[56:14] I mean, I cried a little because I was like, why do they have these pictures turned away from the camera?

Elliott Kalan

[56:20] Yeah, they're all turned towards a window as if they want passersby to just see the pictures.

S4

[56:25] No, it's so that you can let your loved ones look out the window.

Elliott Kalan

[56:28] Oh, sweet.

[56:28] That was the implication that Craig and Sarah were in a relationship?

[56:31] Because when the Craig ghost shows up, she doesn't treat him like it's anything special.

[56:36] But she has a picture of him in her house.

[56:40] Yeah, I don't know.

Dan McCoy

[56:42] Like, the thing about this movie.

[56:43] I think this is a JD question.

[56:45] The thing about this movie, and I've said this a lot on this podcast when we watched one of these more baffling movies,

[56:51] is that, like, Elliot's description of it to the podcast listener probably sounded largely incomprehensible,

[56:59] but it was at least 50% more comprehensible than the film itself.

Elliott Kalan

[57:05] I put work into putting this summary together because this movie is –

[57:08] it's hard to express the experience of watching this movie,

[57:12] which is that it is, like, the movie is, like, at every turn,

[57:16] it is doing the best it can to not give you a thing to hold on to,

[57:19] to understand why the movie is happening and what's going on.

Stuart Wellington

[57:22] And I'm sure you had, like, extensive online resources to turn to for this plot summary

[57:27] that explains all the different character ideas and motivations.

Elliott Kalan

[57:31] I mean, not extensive, but I did some research on it.

[57:34] But I will say this also.

[57:35] It's like – and you can't – I – it's – you don't –

[57:41] He's at a loss for words.

[57:43] I'm at a loss for words because it's such a singular misunderstanding

[57:46] of how stories are told and how movies work.

[57:49] And it is amazing to me, someone who – maybe I just take it for granted

[57:52] that stories make a certain amount of – I'm a professional writer.

[57:55] Maybe it's because I have an affinity for stories or how things work like that,

[57:58] that I do that for a living.

[58:00] But this is someone in his interviews, the director – in his interview,

[58:04] the director is like, oh, yeah, I want to do something like The Sixth Sense or The Exorcist.

[58:08] But I also want to talk about brain science and schizophrenia

[58:11] and what it's like to be a med student.

[58:13] And that it is such a – such a total lack of understanding

[58:17] of how to do any of those things in a story that even –

[58:20] like if my kids made a movie, they'd have a basic understanding of like,

[58:24] oh, yeah, you introduced this character and he does something

[58:26] and then a thing happens as a result of that.

[58:28] And then he's got to solve the problem.

[58:29] Whereas this is so – it just exists in a different plane of thinking.

S4

[58:33] Okay, so I have – I've been doing a bit of being, you know,

[58:36] trying to be kind of an antagonist here.

[58:38] Like a little stinker, yeah.

[58:39] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[58:39] You've got a real – this is a real Charles Roden on The Tonight Show type character.

S4

[58:44] But I will say something that I love and being a longtime Flophouse fan –

[58:49] also, I want to shout out one of my childhood dear friends, Jay,

[58:53] who is a Flophouse super fan who I'm sure is listening right now and is very excited.

[58:59] Thanks, Jay.

[58:59] Yeah, he's been listening for a long time and we text about the show often.

[59:05] As a long time – I grew up in the Chicago suburbs where we had Sven Gulli.

[59:09] And so on Sundays, Sven Gulli would show sort of horror movies

[59:12] and usually it was like, you know, horror movies they get the license to.

[59:15] And part of it is like, you know, you're seeing these bad movies.

[59:17] So I have a lifelong full of bad movies.

[59:22] And to me, what I think is genuinely interesting is a movie can –

[59:27] lots of movies can be bad, right?

[59:28] There's tons of bad movies all the time.

[59:30] But what makes them unique is when someone genuinely tries to make something

[59:34] but just does it in a way that doesn't line up with how the –

[59:38] as Elliot aptly described,

[59:40] doesn't line up with any of the language of how things have been done before.

[59:44] And that's why I think After Last Season is really interesting is it's,

[59:47] you know, like The Room, like Birdemic, like any of these big movies.

[59:50] It's like this is someone who genuinely seemed to try to make a movie

[59:55] but did it in a way that defies all logic around all of what we've learned about cinema.

[1:00:00] And I think that's actually like exciting and fun because a lot of times –

[1:00:04] and I'm sure you guys can attest to this –

[1:00:06] bad movies often are very the same.

[1:00:08] The things that are bad about them can be the same things over and over again.

[1:00:12] Or there's a knowing sense of winkiness and like sometimes it's just laziness that makes them bad

[1:00:16] or like apathy.

[1:00:18] Yeah.

[1:00:18] And I think when bad movies are interesting is when it's people that are genuinely trying to make something

[1:00:23] and just do not know how to do it.

[1:00:26] And I think this movie in itself is a type of bad movie that is very specific

[1:00:31] and different than a lot of the other bad movies out there.

[1:00:34] And for that, I applaud it because also to what Dan was saying about the story is

[1:00:39] when Dan texted and said that, Elliot, you were on summary duty.

[1:00:42] Number one, I felt very guilty because you have a family and a life.

[1:00:45] And I was like, this isn't a movie where I could not have done that

[1:00:49] because the plot to this movie is a list of scenes

[1:00:53] that you have to infer how they are connected necessarily.

[1:00:58] And I think that's such an interesting thing because it doesn't feel –

[1:01:01] I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to anyone to sit down and watch it

[1:01:04] because it doesn't necessarily make logical sense and its pace is –

[1:01:07] it doesn't sort of grab you and pull you along.

[1:01:10] But I do think it's interesting because it is a bad movie that has a tone and a style

[1:01:14] and an approach that is different than I would say many –

[1:01:17] the majority of other bad movies.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:19] I think so.

[1:01:19] I mean even The Room or Birdemic have a more inherent understanding

[1:01:23] of traditional how a movie is and how a story is told.

[1:01:27] Film language.

[1:01:28] And I will say –

[1:01:29] the other thing, Stuart, I want to say is that like

[1:01:31] this guy doesn't know what he's doing.

[1:01:33] The movie makes no sense.

[1:01:34] But also, kudos to him.

[1:01:36] I didn't get up and make a movie.

[1:01:38] He did it.

[1:01:38] Like I'm the guy who's like, oh, I know how to tell a story, blah, blah, blah.

[1:01:41] I'm not the one who's out there making a movie to express myself

[1:01:44] no matter – despite not even having the language to express myself in.

[1:01:49] So you got to give him credit for that.

S4

[1:01:50] And what I also like too is that I'm sure you all have seen it with all –

[1:01:54] it's a lot of bad movies.

[1:01:54] Once it gets claimed as a bad movie, the creators are like,

[1:01:58] oh, yeah, it's kind of – yeah, it's like kind of fun and intentional.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:00] Oh, yeah, I meant it to be silly.

[1:02:02] Yeah, we did that on purpose.

S4

[1:02:02] And if you read interviews with so-called Mark Regan,

[1:02:06] literally the interview is like him being like, this isn't a comedy.

[1:02:10] It's not a spoof.

[1:02:10] It's not funny.

[1:02:11] It's a thriller.

[1:02:12] That's the thing.

[1:02:13] Like in that one interview that I think you also read, Elliot,

[1:02:15] he ends it by being like – and I think he's going to say it.

[1:02:17] And he's like, yeah, it's not a spoof.

[1:02:19] It's a thriller.

[1:02:19] I want people to know that it's a thriller

[1:02:21] because I think they think it's funny and it's not.

[1:02:23] And I appreciate that, that he's just like, this is what it is.

[1:02:26] I made what I made.

[1:02:28] Take it or leave it.

Dan McCoy

[1:02:29] Yeah.

[1:02:29] Yeah, well, this – I mean, we're already there,

[1:02:31] but this also dovetails so much with what I wanted to say in Final Judgment.

[1:02:35] So let's go to Final Judgments.

[1:02:37] Let's do it.

[1:02:37] Where we opine on whether this is a good, bad movie, a bad, bad movie,

[1:02:42] or a movie we kind of liked.

[1:02:43] And like I don't – I don't recommend watching this movie the way that I watched it,

[1:02:48] which is, you know, alone from a file that JD sent me.

[1:02:54] Like, but I think –

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:57] This is a movie to watch alone.

[1:02:58] This is a movie that to like – it feels like if someone says to you,

[1:03:01] oh, I'm going to go home and watch After Last Season by myself tonight,

[1:03:03] then you should be like, I'm worried about you.

[1:03:06] Take a lot of pizza.

Dan McCoy

[1:03:07] I think you would have more fun watching it with others

[1:03:10] and just sort of discussing it,

[1:03:13] but not in like also like a classic good, bad way.

[1:03:17] Like I don't think there's a lot of laughs in this per se,

[1:03:21] but I think it's an interesting movie in the same –

[1:03:25] like in the way that JD is talking about where like sometimes if you're like –

[1:03:30] if you're like us sickos, if you like love movies so much,

[1:03:33] if you love stories so much,

[1:03:34] you like watching a thing that kind of breaks your brain

[1:03:37] because it's like, oh, this doesn't have any of the language I'm used to.

[1:03:40] Like this is a totally different thing.

[1:03:43] And, you know, it might be because of a lack of understanding,

[1:03:49] but it is interesting to see that different perception of like,

[1:03:52] oh, I'm going to do it this way.

[1:03:54] So like I guess I'm coming down on good, bad,

[1:03:58] even though I found myself bored for most of the movie

[1:04:02] because it is such a singular experience.

[1:04:07] But what do you guys have to say?

[1:04:08] Yeah, I mean, I think 100% this is a good, bad movie.

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:11] I mean, I think it's a movie that is –

[1:04:13] if you are into watching like silly, bad movies

[1:04:16] that are definitely thrillers, not comedies,

[1:04:19] then yeah, I mean, watch it with your sicko, weirdo movie friends.

[1:04:23] I think it also for me, what I do find fascinating,

[1:04:27] I think this is similar to what you guys have been talking about,

[1:04:28] is how like, you know, I've made some comics

[1:04:32] and I have some understanding of film language

[1:04:35] and just like this is the first time in a really long time

[1:04:39] that watching a bad movie I'm like,

[1:04:42] why do they make it this way?

[1:04:45] Like how – like that's not how you do that.

[1:04:50] Like why are you doing this like this?

[1:04:52] And it's – I think that like just the fact that it forces you

[1:04:56] to think about movies is interesting.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:59] It really shows you how much film language you –

[1:05:02] how much film grammar you have internalized

[1:05:05] when you watch something like this and you're like,

[1:05:06] oh, wow, like I don't even know how to –

[1:05:08] I don't know how to read this.

[1:05:09] I'm going to call this – I'm going to call it

[1:05:10] bad, bad if you're by yourself,

[1:05:13] good, bad if you're with the right people,

[1:05:14] but do not watch this movie by yourself.

[1:05:16] Similar to –

[1:05:17] If he's too scared.

[1:05:18] Bad, bad in the sheets.

[1:05:19] I think if I hadn't had –

[1:05:21] Good, bad in the streets.

[1:05:22] I think if I hadn't had the need to take notes

[1:05:24] to say the summary later,

[1:05:27] I think at certain points I think I probably would have just started

[1:05:30] looking through the screen

[1:05:31] and not even being able to pay attention to what was going on.

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:34] Like that letter that rose up out of the plane.

[1:05:37] Exactly.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:37] I kept waiting for that letter to be like

[1:05:39] the first letter of the name of the killer or something like that.

[1:05:42] No, it's just a thing.

[1:05:43] Like it's not connecting.

Stuart Wellington

[1:05:44] That's not the language he's using, Elliot.

S4

[1:05:46] No.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:47] I'm trying to force a connection when it doesn't really exist.

S4

[1:05:49] You're trying to get into a triangular car and drive away

[1:05:52] and instead you just need to look at three of them

[1:05:54] sort of float by you.

[1:05:56] Like the old saying says.

[1:06:01] J.D., J.D.

Dan McCoy

[1:06:02] What's your definitive?

S4

[1:06:03] I agree with everything you guys have said.

[1:06:05] I think that this –

[1:06:06] To me, this is a good, bad movie.

[1:06:07] That doesn't mean it's an enjoyable bad movie.

[1:06:10] And Stuart, I think what you're saying is interesting

[1:06:12] because as someone who –

[1:06:14] we all make stuff artistically in different ways.

[1:06:17] Truly watching this, it reminds me.

[1:06:20] I'm like, oh, there are no rules.

[1:06:22] You can kind of do anything.

[1:06:23] And the fact that you can sit through this

[1:06:25] and suss out a story and you are –

[1:06:28] you have some semblance that's stuck in our head

[1:06:30] of what these characters experience.

[1:06:32] Like it reminds you that it's like you can do anything,

[1:06:35] which I sort of like about it.

[1:06:36] So I would say it is a good, bad movie.

[1:06:38] And I agree with everyone.

[1:06:39] It is not a good, bad movie that would be fun

[1:06:41] to queue up by yourself and watch.

[1:06:43] And you need a very specific group of friends

[1:06:45] that would understand what's fun about it.

[1:06:47] And I would say do not –

[1:06:49] officially do not do a drinking game

[1:06:51] where you drink every time there is a cutaway

[1:06:53] that doesn't make sense.

[1:06:54] That would be dangerous.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:56] You would die.

[1:06:57] You would die.

Stuart Wellington

[1:06:58] Yeah, watching this on your own is like the equivalent of –

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:00] Your liver will burst out of your body and run away.

Stuart Wellington

[1:07:02] It's like watching this on your own would be like the equivalent

[1:07:05] of going to some kind of amateur in a garage playhouse production

[1:07:10] by all amateur people of some kind of play

[1:07:13] that one of them wrote about their life

[1:07:15] and not doing that because you know anyone in the cast.

[1:07:22] Very specific.

Elliott Kalan

[1:07:23] There's something about this movie that like –

[1:07:25] it feels like the kind of movie you would see if you –

[1:07:29] it's the kind of movie you see where you're in a movie

[1:07:31] where like you're on a road trip,

[1:07:33] your car breaks down,

[1:07:35] you have to bring it into like a grimy like garage

[1:07:40] and they go, oh, don't worry,

[1:07:41] my brother runs a motel just across the street.

[1:07:44] You've got to dodge across a highway to get this motel.

[1:07:47] It's full of bugs.

[1:07:49] You turn on the TV.

[1:07:50] This is the movie that's playing.

[1:07:51] And then the guy from the hotel

[1:07:53] and the guy from the garage come in and kill you and eat you.

[1:07:55] Like that's the kind of movie this is.

[1:07:56] It's what you're watching when you were in a horror movie.

S4

[1:07:58] It also reminded me of like when I was a kid,

[1:08:01] I have these visual memories of going to like art museums

[1:08:03] and seeing video art and being like,

[1:08:05] I guess I'll understand that when I'm an adult.

[1:08:08] That's kind of how after last season feels.

[1:08:10] You watch it and you're like,

[1:08:11] I guess when I grow up this will make sense to me.

Dan McCoy

[1:08:12] That and sex.

[1:08:13] Those are the two things that you understand.

[1:08:17] And you see them in museums.

[1:08:19] Yeah.

Justin McElroy

[1:08:24] What's more action-packed than prestige television?

[1:08:27] With more continuity than comic books?

[1:08:30] And more reality than reality television?

[1:08:32] One, two, three.

S4

[1:08:36] It's professional wrestling.

[1:08:44] And to better understand wrestling

[1:08:46] is the ultimate form of entertainment,

[1:08:48] you need the Tights and Fights podcast.

Justin McElroy

[1:08:50] This is the perfect wrestling show

[1:08:52] with a lot of love,

[1:08:53] a lack of toxic masculinity,

[1:08:55] and just the right amount of butts,

[1:08:57] cats,

[1:08:58] and spandex.

[1:09:00] Listen to Tights and Fights

[1:09:01] every Saturday on Maximum Fun.

[1:09:06] You know, we've been doing

[1:09:07] My Brother, My Brother, Me for 15 years.

[1:09:10] Christ!

[1:09:11] Maybe you stopped listening for a while,

[1:09:13] maybe you never listened,

[1:09:14] and you're probably assuming

[1:09:15] three white guys talking for 15 years.

[1:09:17] I know where this has ended up.

[1:09:19] But no!

[1:09:20] No, you would be wrong.

[1:09:22] We're as shocked as you are

[1:09:23] that we have not fallen into

[1:09:24] some sort of horrific scandal

[1:09:27] or just turned into a big crypto thing.

[1:09:30] Yeah, we don't even really know

[1:09:31] how crypto works.

[1:09:33] The only NFTs I'm into

[1:09:34] are naughty, funny things,

[1:09:36] which is what we talk about

[1:09:37] on My Brother, My Brother, and Me.

[1:09:39] We serve it up every Monday for you

[1:09:41] if you're listening.

[1:09:42] And if not,

[1:09:43] we just leave it out back

[1:09:44] until it goes rotten.

[1:09:46] So check it out on Maximum Fun

[1:09:47] or wherever you get your podcasts.

Dan McCoy

[1:09:51] Good morrow to you,

[1:09:52] Flophouse listener.

[1:09:54] Oh, hail and well met.

[1:09:57] Hey, we got a sponsor.

[1:09:59] It's Lisa mattresses.

[1:10:00] Despite that vigorous welcome,

[1:10:06] I don't sleep well.

[1:10:09] You might be surprised to learn

[1:10:10] that Dan McCoy doesn't sleep well.

[1:10:12] Perhaps it is his bad joints.

[1:10:16] Perhaps it is the state of the world.

[1:10:18] Maybe, just maybe,

[1:10:20] it's my mattress.

[1:10:22] Maybe I need one of these

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[1:10:25] that I hear nothing but the best about.

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[1:10:36] sleep positions and feel preferences in mind.

[1:10:39] And you know what?

[1:10:41] Ugh,

[1:10:42] if only someone had my feel preferences in mind.

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[1:11:00] That's a lot of sleeping

[1:11:01] before you gotta commit.

[1:11:03] Lisa isn't just about sleep, though.

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[1:11:05] It's about impact.

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[1:11:47] Support our show

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[1:11:51] Lisa.com,

[1:11:52] promo code FLOP.

[1:11:55] Let's answer some letters

[1:11:57] from listeners.

[1:11:58] Letters that rose up

[1:12:00] out of a sheet

[1:12:01] of pure color.

[1:12:02] We're going to read them

[1:12:03] and then answer them.

[1:12:04] Yeah,

[1:12:04] the first one is T.

[1:12:07] So,

[1:12:07] we got that one out of the way.

[1:12:09] This next letter

[1:12:10] is from Sebastian,

[1:12:11] last name withheld.

[1:12:12] I hope the microphone

[1:12:13] has picked up my heavy sigh.

[1:12:16] Sebastian the Crab.

[1:12:17] I'll go.

[1:12:20] It goes like this.

[1:12:22] Dear Peaches,

[1:12:23] Elliot's dive into the

[1:12:24] IMDb trivia section

[1:12:26] for Gabby's Dollhouse

[1:12:27] reminded me of my

[1:12:28] all-time favorite factoid

[1:12:30] from the trivia page

[1:12:31] for 2011's

[1:12:32] X-Men First Class.

[1:12:34] Okay.

[1:12:35] And here's the trivia.

[1:12:36] It says,

[1:12:37] this is the second time

[1:12:38] that January Jones

[1:12:39] has been cast in 1962

[1:12:42] opposite an actor

[1:12:44] with a pork-based name.

[1:12:46] The first was in

[1:12:47] Mad Men

[1:12:47] opposite Jon Hamm

[1:12:49] and then this

[1:12:50] alongside Kevin Bacon.

[1:12:52] What a trivia.

[1:12:53] What a piece of trivia.

[1:12:55] 158 of 233

[1:12:57] found this interesting.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:59] Three more.

[1:13:00] One more

[1:13:01] and you can get

[1:13:01] a New York Times

[1:13:02] style piece out of that.

[1:13:03] Why does January Jones

[1:13:04] be cast in 1962

[1:13:05] opposite

[1:13:05] ham,

[1:13:07] pork-based names?

Dan McCoy

[1:13:09] Yeah.

[1:13:10] Who else?

[1:13:12] I'm trying to think.

[1:13:13] Federico Guanciale.

[1:13:14] Brendan Sausage?

[1:13:18] Boss Hog?

[1:13:20] Yeah.

[1:13:21] Doug Ray Hot Dog?

[1:13:27] Okay.

[1:13:28] Sebastian goes on to write,

[1:13:29] it has since been deleted

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:30] for being too interesting.

[1:13:35] That's exactly the kind of thing

[1:13:36] the Deep State

[1:13:36] doesn't want you to know.

[1:13:37] Sounds like Sebastian

Dan McCoy

[1:13:38] wrote this trivia.

[1:13:40] Yeah.

[1:13:40] Yeah, he's very mad.

[1:13:42] But can still be found

[1:13:43] in the Internet Archive

[1:13:44] if you dig around for it.

[1:13:46] Thank goodness.

[1:13:47] They do good work over there.

[1:13:49] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:49] My question.

[1:13:50] How much water,

[1:13:50] how much clean,

[1:13:51] fresh water is being wasted

[1:13:53] cooling the servers

[1:13:54] that are maintaining

[1:13:55] this piece of trivia?

[1:13:56] Oh, come on.

[1:13:56] Don't take down

Dan McCoy

[1:13:56] the Internet Archive.

[1:13:57] Like, that's a,

[1:13:58] take down the AI centers.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:01] Why do I have to choose?

[1:14:02] We can get rid of dumb things,

[1:14:04] everybody.

[1:14:04] We don't have to hold

[1:14:04] on to all of them.

[1:14:06] My question.

Dan McCoy

[1:14:08] What's the last movie

[1:14:09] you bought on physical media?

[1:14:11] Wait, what?

[1:14:12] Classic.

[1:14:13] Yeah.

[1:14:14] They zagged on us.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:15] I actually,

[1:14:16] I actually just this week

[1:14:17] bought the DVD

[1:14:18] of Joe Dante's

[1:14:20] The Movie Orgy

[1:14:20] after Dan and I

[1:14:22] talked about it

[1:14:22] existing on DVD.

[1:14:24] And I was like,

[1:14:24] I'm just going to do it.

[1:14:25] I'm going to buy it

[1:14:25] so I can watch this thing.

[1:14:26] So it was just this week

[1:14:27] that I bought physical media.

[1:14:29] A movie on physical media.

[1:14:30] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:14:30] You know what?

[1:14:30] I'm going to go

[1:14:31] because I bought

[1:14:32] a Joe Dante movie

[1:14:33] as the last movie

[1:14:34] that I bought

[1:14:35] on physical media

[1:14:35] for my birthday this year

[1:14:39] upcoming in June.

[1:14:40] I was like,

[1:14:41] I'm just going to have

[1:14:41] a few people over.

[1:14:42] Not like a huge thing.

[1:14:43] We're going to watch.

[1:14:44] You're trying to me.

[1:14:44] We're going to watch

[1:14:45] a couple movies.

[1:14:46] I mean,

[1:14:46] if you were in town,

[1:14:47] Elliot,

[1:14:47] obviously you'd,

[1:14:48] we're going to watch

[1:14:49] a couple movies.

[1:14:50] What I hear is,

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:51] what I hear is you

[1:14:51] putting requirements

[1:14:52] on our friendship.

Dan McCoy

[1:14:53] I'll send you an invite

[1:14:54] so you can say no.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:56] Okay.

[1:14:56] Or maybe I'll fly out.

[1:14:57] You don't know.

Dan McCoy

[1:14:58] Anyway.

[1:14:59] I would love it.

[1:15:00] Don't threaten me

[1:15:00] with a good time.

[1:15:02] Come out and watch.

[1:15:03] Anyway,

[1:15:03] the point is,

[1:15:04] I titled my birthday

[1:15:07] Dante's Danferno

[1:15:08] because I was going to show

[1:15:09] two Joe Dante movies.

[1:15:12] You know,

[1:15:12] not my...

[1:15:13] It's pronounced Joe Dante.

[1:15:14] Yeah.

[1:15:16] Yeah.

[1:15:17] Not my,

[1:15:18] not my absolute favorite

[1:15:20] top tier Joe Dante movies,

[1:15:22] but ones I really enjoy.

[1:15:23] Yes.

[1:15:24] Small Soldiers is one of them.

[1:15:25] That's the one I bought

[1:15:26] most recently.

[1:15:27] And the other is

[1:15:28] Inner Space,

[1:15:29] which I got in a...

[1:15:29] a limited edition.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:32] Which explains the...

[1:15:32] That Inner Space

[1:15:33] movie poster he sent us.

[1:15:35] Yes.

[1:15:35] Oh, that's right.

[1:15:36] That does explain that.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:37] Yeah.

[1:15:37] And I informed you guys

[1:15:38] that in David Milch's memoirs,

[1:15:40] which I just read,

[1:15:41] he goes out of his way

[1:15:42] to compare something

[1:15:43] to Inner Space

[1:15:44] and then point out

[1:15:45] that it's a good movie,

[1:15:46] but he does not name the movie.

[1:15:47] No.

[1:15:47] He says,

[1:15:48] oh,

[1:15:48] it's like that guy inside...

[1:15:50] I felt like Martin Short

[1:15:50] in that movie

[1:15:51] where the guy's inside of him,

[1:15:52] which is a pretty good movie,

[1:15:53] but he doesn't bother

[1:15:54] to name it.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:56] Anyway,

[1:15:57] it was like...

[1:15:57] My birthday was...

[1:15:58] My party was a good excuse

[1:16:00] to give myself

[1:16:01] an early birthday present

[1:16:03] of getting small soldiers

[1:16:04] on a 4K.

[1:16:06] Hey, Dan,

[1:16:06] happy birthday.

[1:16:07] Thank you.

[1:16:09] JD,

[1:16:09] have you bought anything recently?

S4

[1:16:10] Yes.

[1:16:11] I recently bought...

[1:16:12] I gifted a friend

[1:16:14] for his birthday

[1:16:15] a copy of

[1:16:17] The Wizard of Speed and Time,

[1:16:18] my copy of it.

[1:16:19] Oh, wow.

[1:16:19] Okay.

[1:16:19] And so I purchased

[1:16:20] a new copy to replace it

[1:16:22] and along with it,

[1:16:22] I got a Korean version as well.

Dan McCoy

[1:16:24] That is a movie

[1:16:25] that I was introduced to

[1:16:27] by Cassetti's creator,

[1:16:29] John Holt,

[1:16:30] who does our animations

[1:16:31] for Flop TV.

[1:16:32] I don't know.

S4

[1:16:32] Yeah,

[1:16:33] and it's great

[1:16:34] and the creator,

[1:16:34] Mike Jitlov,

[1:16:35] is a real character.

[1:16:36] I have a sign...

[1:16:37] I believe that.

[1:16:38] I mean,

[1:16:39] he still hosts...

[1:16:40] He hosts the website.

[1:16:42] It's like an old school website.

[1:16:43] It's him defending the movie

[1:16:44] and putting his gripes publicly

[1:16:46] and it's been running it

[1:16:47] for a while.

[1:16:48] So if you buy...

[1:16:49] You can like buy a poster.

[1:16:50] I have a signed poster of it

[1:16:52] and you buy it from him

[1:16:53] and his website.

[1:16:55] That's awesome.

[1:16:56] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:16:57] And I,

[1:16:57] what,

[1:16:58] like a week or two ago,

[1:16:59] I ordered a movie

[1:17:01] I'd never seen.

[1:17:02] I ordered Black Hat.

[1:17:04] Yeah.

[1:17:04] Okay.

[1:17:06] Because it's the...

[1:17:07] Controversial.

[1:17:07] But I got the director's cut version

[1:17:09] that apparently is

[1:17:11] superior,

[1:17:12] Why'd you decide

[1:17:13] to go physical media?

[1:17:14] Because you can't get

[1:17:15] the director's cut

[1:17:16] digitally.

[1:17:18] And I'm going through

[1:17:19] a little bit of a crush

[1:17:20] on lead actress,

[1:17:21] what,

[1:17:22] Tongue Wai,

[1:17:23] who is in

[1:17:24] Decision to Leave

[1:17:25] and Lust Caution.

[1:17:27] So I'm like,

[1:17:28] I gotta complete

[1:17:28] the big trifecta there.

Dan McCoy

[1:17:32] Anyway.

[1:17:33] So I'll watch it

[1:17:33] at some point.

[1:17:35] And I just,

[1:17:36] a shout out to Sebastian

[1:17:37] for asking a question

[1:17:38] that is very easy

[1:17:40] to answer definitively.

[1:17:41] Yeah,

[1:17:41] thank you.

[1:17:43] Let's see,

[1:17:44] what do we got here?

[1:17:45] This next one

[1:17:46] is from

[1:17:46] Morrow,

[1:17:48] Morrow?

[1:17:49] Sorry for

[1:17:49] butchering that.

[1:17:51] Oh,

[1:17:51] from the island of Doctor.

[1:17:52] Yeah,

[1:17:52] yeah,

[1:17:53] yeah.

[1:17:53] Howdy Peaches.

[1:17:56] I've been a fan

[1:17:57] since the days

[1:17:57] when you were

[1:17:58] just a few

[1:17:58] slightly cranky

[1:18:00] single men.

[1:18:00] Now,

[1:18:00] I was previously

[1:18:02] married.

[1:18:03] I was single

[1:18:04] and cranky

[1:18:05] in the middle.

[1:18:05] I don't think

[1:18:06] we're all single

[1:18:06] at the same time.

[1:18:08] So that goes

[1:18:09] in the goof section.

[1:18:10] I hope the microphone

[1:18:10] picks up my sigh

[1:18:11] for this one too.

[1:18:12] Letter.

[1:18:13] Put this in the goofs.

[1:18:14] Actually,

[1:18:15] this might be

[1:18:15] a trivia section thing.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:16] This might be

[1:18:16] a trivia section thing.

[1:18:18] Let's get

[1:18:18] the internet archive on it.

[1:18:19] Here's my confession.

Dan McCoy

[1:18:21] I stopped collecting

[1:18:22] comic books

[1:18:23] in October.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:25] I killed a man.

[1:18:26] What?

S4

[1:18:27] Well,

[1:18:28] wrap the flop house up.

Dan McCoy

[1:18:29] It's been a sting.

[1:18:31] We got it.

S4

[1:18:31] The body's in the East River.

[1:18:32] The current

[1:18:33] is probably taking it north.

Dan McCoy

[1:18:38] I stopped collecting

[1:18:39] comic books

[1:18:40] in October 2010.

[1:18:42] It was becoming

[1:18:43] a real problem

[1:18:43] so I had to quit.

[1:18:45] Since then,

[1:18:46] I've occasionally

[1:18:46] bought a floppy

[1:18:47] or a trade paperback

[1:18:49] but I haven't read

[1:18:50] any of them

[1:18:51] out of fear

[1:18:51] that I'd dive

[1:18:52] headfirst

[1:18:53] back down

[1:18:53] that slippery slope.

[1:18:54] Wow.

[1:18:55] Yeah, yeah.

[1:18:55] Lately, though,

[1:18:57] life...

[1:18:57] The paper dragon.

[1:18:58] Mm-hmm.

[1:19:00] Lately,

[1:19:01] life and these

[1:19:02] end times vibes

[1:19:03] have had me craving

[1:19:04] the escapist joy

[1:19:04] of comic skin.

[1:19:06] So I finally broke

[1:19:07] the seal with

[1:19:07] Maniac of New York

[1:19:09] Volume 1

[1:19:09] by Galen and Moody.

[1:19:12] Moody.

[1:19:12] Moody, I think it is,

[1:19:13] yeah.

[1:19:13] Watch,

[1:19:14] which,

[1:19:14] full disclosure,

[1:19:15] I bought almost

[1:19:16] three years ago.

[1:19:17] Naturally,

[1:19:18] like any...

[1:19:18] Money's still green,

[1:19:19] baby.

[1:19:20] Yeah.

[1:19:21] Like any good

[1:19:21] comic book junkie,

[1:19:23] I immediately went

[1:19:23] to Revenge of Comics

[1:19:26] in Los Angeles

[1:19:27] and picked up

[1:19:27] Maniac of New York

[1:19:28] Volume 2.

[1:19:28] My local comic book store.

[1:19:30] One of my local

[1:19:30] comic book stores.

[1:19:31] Along with

[1:19:32] Barbarian Behind Bars

[1:19:33] issues one and two.

[1:19:35] The cashier asked

[1:19:36] how I'd heard about them

[1:19:37] and I somehow

[1:19:38] ended up unintentionally

[1:19:39] fanboying for a solid minute

[1:19:41] shouting out

[1:19:42] The Flophouse,

[1:19:43] Mystery Science Theater,

[1:19:44] and Harley Quinn.

[1:19:45] So yes,

[1:19:46] while I curse you all

[1:19:47] for breaking my

[1:19:48] comic book sobriety,

[1:19:49] I also love these books

[1:19:51] and remain

[1:19:51] a diehard Flophouse fan.

[1:19:53] With all that said,

[1:19:54] other than Mr. Kalen's work,

[1:19:56] what comic book series

[1:19:58] or creators

[1:19:58] would you recommend

[1:19:59] to a former collector

[1:20:00] before going cold turkey?

[1:20:02] I was a devout reader

[1:20:03] of Astro City,

[1:20:06] Ed Brubaker's Criminal,

[1:20:08] and anything by artist

[1:20:09] Juan Jose Rip.

[1:20:12] So what's been floating

[1:20:13] your boats lately?

[1:20:14] Thank you, Morrow.

[1:20:17] I'll do a little log rolling

[1:20:19] for our guests

[1:20:20] and say that the comic

[1:20:22] I read most recently

[1:20:23] is JD's book,

[1:20:25] The Endless Game,

[1:20:27] which...

[1:20:28] Yeah, yeah,

[1:20:29] hold it up for the camera.

[1:20:30] Yeah, yeah,

[1:20:30] grab it.

[1:20:34] Which was a delight.

[1:20:35] There it is.

[1:20:36] It's a YA graphic novel

[1:20:39] and it's very sweet

[1:20:41] and funny.

[1:20:42] It's about an endless game

[1:20:43] of Cranston the Flag.

[1:20:44] Is there like a Batman in there?

[1:20:45] Yeah, yeah,

[1:20:45] you should sell it.

[1:20:46] There's no Batman.

S4

[1:20:47] So, I mean,

[1:20:48] my answer is,

[1:20:50] so this is my debut graphic novel.

[1:20:52] It's a middle grade graphic novel.

[1:20:53] Congratulations.

[1:20:53] That's great.

[1:20:54] And middle grade is like that,

[1:20:56] like seven to 12 range.

[1:20:57] And so I've been very like

[1:20:59] immersed in that space

[1:21:01] over the past year.

[1:21:02] And so, you know,

[1:21:03] growing up for all of us,

[1:21:04] we didn't really have

[1:21:05] the middle grade graphic novel universe.

[1:21:07] Like the closest thing

[1:21:08] was like Mouse.

Elliott Kalan

[1:21:11] I feel like when we were growing up,

[1:21:12] it was either,

[1:21:13] you were either reading

[1:21:14] like Archie comics,

[1:21:16] superhero comics,

[1:21:17] or Cerebus.

[1:21:18] Like those are the only level,

[1:21:19] or Love and Rockets.

[1:21:20] Like there was nothing

[1:21:21] for someone who wanted

[1:21:22] to read a story

[1:21:22] that wasn't superheroes,

[1:21:24] but was not old enough

[1:21:25] to read Love and Rockets

[1:21:27] or American Splendor

[1:21:28] or something like that.

S4

[1:21:29] Yeah.

[1:21:29] And likewise,

[1:21:30] also on the other side of that

[1:21:31] was just books

[1:21:31] that were like prose prose.

[1:21:33] It was like,

[1:21:33] it was this or Johnny Tremaine.

[1:21:35] And for me,

[1:21:35] I was like a reluctant reader.

[1:21:36] It took me a minute.

[1:21:37] And so I think what-

[1:21:39] Do you not like reading

[1:21:39] about the travails

[1:21:40] of a silversmith's apprentice

[1:21:42] during the Revolutionary War?

[1:21:43] I would have,

[1:21:45] but reading didn't,

[1:21:46] it wasn't,

[1:21:46] you know,

[1:21:47] here's a question for you.

[1:21:48] Maybe it was a comic.

Elliott Kalan

[1:21:49] What if it was called

[1:21:49] Johnny Deformed?

S4

[1:21:51] I love that, Simpson.

[1:21:53] I would just,

[1:21:54] I just,

[1:21:55] as a kid,

[1:21:55] I read it and I was like,

[1:21:56] there's not enough like ghosts

[1:21:58] and dreams

[1:21:59] and murderers

[1:22:00] and cutaways to things.

[1:22:02] But so I've been reading

[1:22:03] a ton of,

[1:22:04] so on top of,

[1:22:06] I would love everyone

[1:22:07] to purchase my book

[1:22:08] and, you know,

[1:22:09] give it good reviews

[1:22:10] on all the places,

[1:22:11] your Goodreads,

[1:22:12] your Amazons,

[1:22:13] whatever.

[1:22:14] Especially if you have

[1:22:14] a seven or 12 year old

[1:22:15] in your life.

[1:22:17] But I'll also recommend,

[1:22:19] you know,

[1:22:19] Raina Telgemeier

[1:22:20] has a bunch of books

[1:22:21] that are great

[1:22:22] for middle grade kids

[1:22:24] about sort of the,

[1:22:25] the toils of growing up.

[1:22:27] The Amulet series

[1:22:28] is a great like fantasy series

[1:22:29] for kids

[1:22:30] that is super fun.

[1:22:31] And then also,

[1:22:32] I love Once Upon a Space Time,

[1:22:34] which is Jeffrey Brown

[1:22:35] who did like adult comics

[1:22:37] and now he does a lot of stuff

[1:22:38] in the kids space

[1:22:38] and those are amazing.

[1:22:39] So if you-

Elliott Kalan

[1:22:40] Those are a big favorite

[1:22:41] with my kids,

[1:22:41] the Once Upon a Space Time books.

[1:22:43] Yeah.

S4

[1:22:43] So if you don't want

[1:22:44] to support me

[1:22:45] and get my book,

[1:22:46] which I understand,

[1:22:48] check out those ones.

[1:22:49] You're like,

[1:22:49] fuck this guy

[1:22:50] after listening to them.

[1:22:50] No,

Dan McCoy

[1:22:51] get JD's book first.

[1:22:53] I would love that.

[1:22:54] It would mean a lot.

[1:22:55] But you guys,

[1:22:55] you guys are more into,

[1:22:58] plugged into modern comics,

[1:22:59] I think.

Stuart Wellington

[1:23:00] Well,

[1:23:00] kind of.

[1:23:00] I mean,

[1:23:01] I don't,

[1:23:02] I really only get to the shop

[1:23:04] to buy floppies

[1:23:05] if like,

[1:23:05] it's something Elliot wrote

[1:23:07] or something's front

[1:23:09] of the podcast,

[1:23:09] Xander Cannon makes

[1:23:10] his recent series,

[1:23:12] Sleep.

[1:23:12] I thought it was a ton of fun

[1:23:14] and also,

[1:23:15] because it's Xander Cannon,

[1:23:16] super sad.

[1:23:19] It's so great.

[1:23:21] But the creator

[1:23:22] I want to highlight

[1:23:23] is one who I almost exclusively

[1:23:25] at this point

[1:23:25] get his work through

[1:23:27] Kickstarters

[1:23:28] and that is

[1:23:30] comic creator Simon Roy.

[1:23:33] I thought it was going

[1:23:33] to be Simon Roy

[1:23:34] that you were talking about.

[1:23:34] I love his stuff so much.

[1:23:36] Like, he does this like,

[1:23:37] really weirdo science fiction

[1:23:39] and he and a team

[1:23:41] of collaborators

[1:23:42] have made so many

[1:23:43] great little books.

[1:23:44] I just recently read

[1:23:46] Sharp Eye,

[1:23:46] which was an expansion

[1:23:48] of the universe

[1:23:49] created with

[1:23:50] the book First Knife

[1:23:52] that they put out

[1:23:53] through Image

[1:23:54] that's about this like,

[1:23:56] you know,

[1:23:57] United States,

[1:23:59] you know,

[1:24:00] 10,000 years in the future

[1:24:01] or something

[1:24:02] and how,

[1:24:03] and how like,

[1:24:05] the,

[1:24:05] the world is now

[1:24:06] like very tribal

[1:24:07] and strange

[1:24:08] and it's,

[1:24:09] it's awesome.

[1:24:10] Yeah,

[1:24:10] he does science fiction

[1:24:11] stuff better

[1:24:11] than anyone out there.

Elliott Kalan

[1:24:13] He does,

[1:24:13] he has a book

[1:24:13] called Habitat

[1:24:14] that I think

[1:24:15] is a really good

[1:24:15] kind of like

[1:24:16] first,

[1:24:17] first one for him

[1:24:17] where it's like,

[1:24:18] it's not a long,

[1:24:19] it's not long,

[1:24:19] it's a quick read

[1:24:20] but it's like,

[1:24:20] you're like,

[1:24:21] this book is,

[1:24:22] there's so much stuff

[1:24:22] going on in this book.

[1:24:23] Like,

[1:24:23] there's so many ideas

[1:24:25] and things going on in it.

[1:24:26] You know,

[1:24:26] it's real fun.

[1:24:28] I'm,

[1:24:28] I'm a little,

[1:24:29] otherwise,

[1:24:29] I'm a little bit

[1:24:30] outside of regular comics

[1:24:32] right now.

[1:24:32] I just haven't had

[1:24:33] as much time

[1:24:34] to read them

[1:24:34] in my regular life

[1:24:35] and so I'm sad to say

[1:24:36] that the comic

[1:24:37] that I've been reading

[1:24:37] the most lately

[1:24:38] is,

[1:24:39] there was a Kickstarter

[1:24:40] campaign

[1:24:40] by Mike Barron,

[1:24:43] the writer of Nexus,

[1:24:44] which is one of my

[1:24:44] favorite series

[1:24:45] to collect

[1:24:47] in big omnibuses,

[1:24:48] hopefully eventually

[1:24:48] that whole series

[1:24:49] and I got the,

[1:24:50] I contributed to the Kickstarter

[1:24:51] for the first volume

[1:24:52] and so I'm rereading

[1:24:53] the first issues

[1:24:55] of that series

[1:24:55] and I'm like,

[1:24:57] this series is great.

[1:24:58] I love this series

[1:24:58] and Nexus is like,

[1:25:00] it's space opera

[1:25:02] but it's also,

[1:25:04] there's also comedy stuff

[1:25:04] in it

[1:25:05] and there's also,

[1:25:05] the art is beautiful

[1:25:06] because it's mostly

[1:25:07] Steve Rood drawing it

[1:25:08] and the dialogue

[1:25:12] in it is super sharp

[1:25:12] and the characters

[1:25:13] are really fun

[1:25:14] and so it's an old comic

[1:25:15] but I'd recommend it

[1:25:17] but I think,

[1:25:19] I need to read

[1:25:19] some new ones too

[1:25:20] so if this letter writer

[1:25:22] reads any new comics

[1:25:23] and likes them a lot,

[1:25:24] write in again,

[1:25:25] tell us which ones you liked.

[1:25:26] I'm looking for recommendations.

Dan McCoy

[1:25:29] Let's move on

[1:25:30] to our final segment

[1:25:32] which is recommendations,

[1:25:34] movies that we saw recently

[1:25:35] that we really enjoyed.

[1:25:38] Stuart, you mentioned Black Hat.

[1:25:41] Stuart, you mentioned Black Hat.

[1:25:42] I actually had never seen...

[1:25:46] Black Hat?

Elliott Kalan

[1:25:46] You mean Kuroneko,

[1:25:47] the samurai movie?

[1:25:47] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:25:48] That's what I said.

[1:25:50] Stuart mentioned Black Hat.

[1:25:53] Oh.

[1:25:54] I actually had never seen

[1:25:58] Michael Mann's Heat

[1:25:59] until just this week.

[1:26:02] Everyone told me...

[1:26:04] Or not Heath.

[1:26:05] What am I talking about?

[1:26:05] Thief.

[1:26:06] Thief.

[1:26:08] They're both about Thiefs.

[1:26:09] Jesus Christ.

[1:26:09] I saw Heat at the time.

[1:26:11] I like Heat fine.

[1:26:12] It's not actually one of my favorites

[1:26:13] but I saw Thief

[1:26:14] for the first time.

[1:26:19] There's so many...

[1:26:20] You know,

[1:26:20] sometimes the interruptions

[1:26:22] interfere with Dan's brainwaves.

[1:26:24] You're right.

[1:26:25] This is a safe space.

[1:26:26] We wouldn't be coming for it.

[1:26:27] It's a very unsafe space.

[1:26:28] In some ways, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:26:29] Do you think Heat would have been better

[1:26:30] if he shot it

[1:26:31] in his like digital video era?

[1:26:33] Like public enemies?

[1:26:34] Yeah, sure.

[1:26:36] I mean,

[1:26:37] Miami Vice looks fucking great.

Dan McCoy

[1:26:40] Thief.

[1:26:41] Sorry.

[1:26:41] Thief,

[1:26:41] the movie

[1:26:42] with James Caan

[1:26:44] and Tuesday Weld

[1:26:45] and Robert Prosky.

[1:26:47] Jesus,

[1:26:47] Robert Prosky

[1:26:48] being scary

[1:26:49] in a way that I've never seen him

[1:26:50] in other things

[1:26:51] and Jim Belushi.

[1:26:54] Jim Belushi

[1:26:54] has a line in it

[1:26:56] that made me laugh

[1:26:56] more than like

[1:26:57] Jim Belushi comedies

[1:26:58] when he's like seeing

[1:26:59] James Caan's like house.

[1:27:01] He's like,

[1:27:01] what do you got here?

[1:27:02] A tree?

[1:27:03] Or something.

[1:27:03] He said something like that.

[1:27:04] It's very funny.

[1:27:06] Anyway,

[1:27:07] like I had

[1:27:08] somehow not seen it

[1:27:09] despite years

[1:27:10] of people being like,

[1:27:11] oh, Dan,

[1:27:11] you would love Thief.

[1:27:12] And I'm like,

[1:27:12] yeah,

[1:27:13] no,

[1:27:13] I'm sure I would love Thief.

[1:27:14] I love...

[1:27:15] JD,

Stuart Wellington

[1:27:15] you're from Chicago.

[1:27:16] They make you watch that shit

[1:27:17] as soon as you're born.

Dan McCoy

[1:27:18] Yeah.

[1:27:19] I love movies

[1:27:19] with lots of neon

[1:27:21] and,

[1:27:21] you know,

[1:27:22] light shining off

[1:27:23] of wet things

[1:27:24] and Tangerine Dream soundtracks.

[1:27:27] But what I also really liked

[1:27:28] about this movie

[1:27:29] is that

[1:27:30] I kind of,

[1:27:31] you know,

[1:27:32] sometimes Michael Mann

[1:27:32] gets a little too like,

[1:27:34] for lack of a better word,

[1:27:36] like male for me,

[1:27:37] like in a gender essentialist way,

[1:27:39] like masculine,

[1:27:40] like, you know,

[1:27:41] it's about men

[1:27:42] who are like kind of,

[1:27:43] they're assholes,

[1:27:44] yeah,

[1:27:45] but maybe that's what

[1:27:46] they need to be

[1:27:46] to get things done.

[1:27:48] And your soul

[1:27:48] can be represented

[1:27:49] by a collage

[1:27:50] you keep in your pocket.

[1:27:51] Well,

[1:27:51] but the thing about Thief

[1:27:52] is it's clear.

Elliott Kalan

[1:27:54] He does have a sensitive side

[1:27:55] with that collage.

[1:27:56] It's a weird,

[1:27:57] if someone showed you

[1:27:58] that collage on a first date,

[1:27:59] you'd be like,

[1:27:59] check please,

[1:28:00] I'll leave now.

[1:28:01] I mean,

Dan McCoy

[1:28:01] Tuesday,

[1:28:02] well,

[1:28:02] it almost does.

[1:28:02] But like,

[1:28:03] I was setting that up

[1:28:04] in opposition to Thief

[1:28:05] where like,

[1:28:06] yeah,

[1:28:07] there's that stuff in it,

[1:28:08] but it's clear

[1:28:08] that this is a lonely weirdo

[1:28:11] who has a lot of emotions

[1:28:13] and like,

[1:28:14] yeah,

[1:28:14] as you say,

[1:28:15] a sensitive side,

[1:28:15] he has love to give,

[1:28:16] but he doesn't know

[1:28:17] how to express it

[1:28:18] or how to appropriately

[1:28:19] go about finding a way

[1:28:21] to express it

[1:28:22] and,

[1:28:22] you know,

[1:28:24] he's kind of in a trap

[1:28:25] of his own making.

[1:28:26] Like,

[1:28:26] all of his like,

[1:28:28] thief code

[1:28:29] is kind of,

[1:28:31] you know,

[1:28:31] stuff to protect him.

[1:28:33] Like,

[1:28:33] he's trying to exert control

[1:28:34] over a world he can't control.

[1:28:36] And so,

[1:28:36] I found that a lot more meaningful

[1:28:39] than some of the other,

[1:28:41] like,

[1:28:42] you know,

[1:28:42] like,

[1:28:42] like I said,

[1:28:43] I don't want to cause

[1:28:44] a lot of controversy.

[1:28:45] I think Heat's a great movie,

[1:28:46] but I like it less

[1:28:47] because I feel like

[1:28:48] it's a little too much like,

[1:28:51] men doing men stuff.

[1:28:53] Well,

Elliott Kalan

[1:28:53] and also the like,

[1:28:54] what's the difference

[1:28:54] between this cop

[1:28:55] and this crook?

[1:28:56] Yeah.

[1:28:56] Two sides of the same coin.

[1:28:57] Well,

[1:28:57] not in a,

[1:28:58] in a good world,

[1:28:59] they would not be

[1:28:59] two sides of the same coin.

[1:29:00] Like,

[1:29:01] you can make a movie

[1:29:01] about damaged guys

[1:29:02] without seeming to be

[1:29:03] endorsing that,

[1:29:04] yeah,

[1:29:05] that you need damaged men

[1:29:06] on both sides of that coin

[1:29:07] to shoot each other

[1:29:08] at airports.

[1:29:09] But I,

[1:29:10] Dan,

[1:29:10] Heat's a great movie.

[1:29:10] I'm glad you finally saw it.

[1:29:12] I think that might be

[1:29:13] my favorite Michael Mann movie

[1:29:14] to be honest.

Dan McCoy

[1:29:14] I think it might be now

[1:29:15] that I've seen it finally.

Stuart Wellington

[1:29:17] I'm going to recommend,

[1:29:19] this is actually a,

[1:29:20] this is a,

[1:29:21] uh,

[1:29:22] uh,

[1:29:23] partial recommendation,

[1:29:24] I guess.

[1:29:24] Uh,

[1:29:25] I just watched,

[1:29:26] uh,

[1:29:26] and also this is tied in

[1:29:28] with the themes

[1:29:28] we've had tonight

[1:29:29] of movies that are

[1:29:31] hard to find

[1:29:32] and have,

[1:29:32] uh,

[1:29:33] mysterious backgrounds.

[1:29:34] I just watched

[1:29:35] the recent

[1:29:36] Faces of Death movie,

[1:29:38] which is

[1:29:38] kind of loosely inspired

[1:29:40] by the original

[1:29:41] Faces of Death,

[1:29:42] which I've actually

[1:29:43] never seen

[1:29:43] and never intend to see.

[1:29:44] and has,

[1:29:45] uh,

[1:29:45] since,

[1:29:46] you know,

[1:29:46] the,

[1:29:46] as the years have passed.

[1:29:47] Because you're too scared?

[1:29:48] Yeah,

[1:29:48] because I'm not,

[1:29:49] uh,

[1:29:49] I'm not,

[1:29:50] I'm not as tough

[1:29:51] as a Michael Mann hero.

[1:29:53] Stuart's fine with Death,

[1:29:54] scared of Faces.

[1:29:55] Yeah.

[1:29:56] I just don't like

[1:29:58] to be perceived.

[1:30:00] Uh,

[1:30:00] the,

[1:30:01] but the,

[1:30:02] I've never seen it,

[1:30:03] but in the years

[1:30:04] since the movie came out,

[1:30:05] a lot of the,

[1:30:06] uh,

[1:30:06] the actual deaths

[1:30:07] have been disproven

[1:30:08] as being fake.

[1:30:09] Um,

[1:30:09] and so this recent movie

[1:30:11] is not obviously

[1:30:12] a remake of that,

[1:30:13] but it is,

[1:30:14] uh,

[1:30:14] it's a fairly,

[1:30:15] in some ways,

[1:30:16] straightforward serial killer

[1:30:18] who's kind of inspired

[1:30:19] by that

[1:30:20] and also,

[1:30:20] like,

[1:30:21] playing around with,

[1:30:22] uh,

[1:30:22] social media

[1:30:23] and various people's

[1:30:25] attention span.

[1:30:26] and,

[1:30:27] um,

[1:30:28] it,

[1:30:28] uh,

[1:30:28] it's directed by,

[1:30:29] it's made by Daniel,

[1:30:31] uh,

[1:30:31] no,

[1:30:32] is it Daniel Goldhaber?

[1:30:33] Donald?

[1:30:34] I don't remember.

[1:30:35] Uh,

[1:30:35] but the guy who made,

[1:30:36] No way of knowing.

[1:30:36] The guy,

[1:30:37] thanks Dan,

[1:30:38] uh,

[1:30:38] who made Cam

[1:30:39] and he made

[1:30:40] How to Blow Up a Pipeline,

[1:30:41] two movies that I liked

[1:30:42] quite a bit.

[1:30:43] And I think this has,

[1:30:45] Daniel Goldhaber.

[1:30:47] I was right the first time

[1:30:48] and I questioned myself

[1:30:49] because I had blank looks

[1:30:51] from my co-host.

[1:30:52] Don't doubt yourself.

[1:30:53] I know,

[1:30:53] you know,

[1:30:54] um,

[1:30:55] uh,

[1:30:55] the,

[1:30:55] so I think there's a lot

[1:30:57] of really good stuff there

[1:30:58] and I think the performances

[1:30:59] are good

[1:31:00] and it's gross in places

[1:31:01] and,

[1:31:02] um,

[1:31:03] it,

[1:31:03] uh,

[1:31:03] continues the themes

[1:31:04] that this guy's movies have

[1:31:06] of,

[1:31:07] like,

[1:31:08] existing,

[1:31:09] and not only is the internet

[1:31:10] a terrifying place,

[1:31:11] uh,

[1:31:12] but also that,

[1:31:13] uh,

[1:31:13] but also that,

[1:31:29] uh,

[1:31:29] they don't care

[1:31:30] and that,

[1:31:31] um,

[1:31:32] you kind of have to survive

[1:31:33] in whatever way you can.

[1:31:35] Um,

[1:31:36] and it's,

[1:31:37] uh,

[1:31:37] yeah,

[1:31:38] it's,

[1:31:38] I would say it's bleak,

[1:31:39] but it's not super bleak.

[1:31:41] It's,

[1:31:41] if it's,

[1:31:42] uh,

[1:31:43] would I like it to be

[1:31:44] more than just a,

[1:31:46] kind of a straightforward,

[1:31:47] uh,

[1:31:48] like serial killer movie?

[1:31:49] Yeah,

[1:31:50] but I think there's a lot

[1:31:51] of good stuff there,

[1:31:52] soundtrack,

[1:31:52] the way it's shot,

[1:31:53] I think it's good.

Elliott Kalan

[1:31:54] Cool.

[1:31:55] I am going to recommend

[1:31:56] a movie that I actually

[1:31:57] mentioned in a previous episode

[1:31:59] that I was in the middle

[1:32:00] of watching

[1:32:00] and then I finished it

[1:32:02] and I liked it a lot

[1:32:03] and that's a movie called,

[1:32:04] uh,

[1:32:05] it's,

[1:32:05] it's a,

[1:32:06] guys,

[1:32:07] you're gonna laugh at me,

[1:32:07] it's a Czech movie,

[1:32:08] but,

[1:32:09] uh,

[1:32:09] it's under,

[1:32:10] it's listed under a couple

[1:32:10] different titles.

[1:32:11] It's either called

[1:32:11] Dinner for Adele

[1:32:12] or Adele hasn't had

[1:32:13] her dinner yet

[1:32:14] or Nick Carver in Prague

[1:32:16] or Adele has not had

[1:32:17] supper yet.

[1:32:17] Adele is hangry.

[1:32:19] And this is,

[1:32:20] this is another movie

[1:32:21] by,

[1:32:21] uh,

[1:32:21] by Old Rich Lipsky,

[1:32:23] the,

[1:32:23] uh,

[1:32:23] director of Lemonade Joe.

[1:32:25] Old Rich Lipsky?

[1:32:26] Well,

[1:32:27] I don't know how it's pronounced.

[1:32:28] It's a,

[1:32:28] it's a Czech name.

[1:32:29] I don't know.

[1:32:29] That's Old Rich Lipsky

Dan McCoy

[1:32:30] up to these days.

Elliott Kalan

[1:32:32] Well,

[1:32:33] his lips are still

[1:32:33] pretty rich.

[1:32:34] Um,

[1:32:35] the rest of him is poor

[1:32:37] as all get out

[1:32:37] and his lips

[1:32:38] inherited all the money.

[1:32:39] Um,

[1:32:40] the,

[1:32:40] uh,

[1:32:41] and it's the story,

[1:32:42] it is a parody

[1:32:43] of the kind of like

[1:32:44] pulp adventure mysteries

[1:32:46] that you would have seen

[1:32:47] at the turn

[1:32:48] of the 20th century

[1:32:49] um,

[1:32:50] and,

[1:32:50] uh,

[1:32:50] the greatest detective

[1:32:51] in America,

[1:32:52] Nick Carter,

[1:32:52] he goes to Prague

[1:32:53] to deal with a,

[1:32:54] uh,

[1:32:54] to deal with a mysterious

[1:32:55] case of a disappearance.

[1:32:57] Uh,

[1:32:57] and it gets,

[1:32:58] he gets wrapped up

[1:32:59] in,

[1:33:00] um,

[1:33:00] a story about,

[1:33:01] with a mad scientist,

[1:33:02] with a man-eating plant,

[1:33:04] and, uh,

[1:33:05] there's a lot of scenes

[1:33:06] of,

[1:33:06] about how great

[1:33:07] the beer and sausages

[1:33:08] in Prague are

[1:33:09] and things like that.

[1:33:10] And it's just really funny.

[1:33:11] Similar to the director's

[1:33:12] previous movie

[1:33:13] that I talked about,

[1:33:14] Lemonade Joe,

[1:33:15] it like,

[1:33:16] feels like a Mel Brooks movie.

[1:33:17] Like,

[1:33:17] it's just really silly.

[1:33:18] I thought it was really funny.

[1:33:20] But, uh,

[1:33:21] there's also some stop-motion

[1:33:22] animation in it

[1:33:23] by Jan Svankmeyer.

[1:33:24] So he did the animation

[1:33:25] for the man-eating plant.

[1:33:27] Cool.

[1:33:27] And it's just,

[1:33:28] it's a,

[1:33:29] I thought it was a really fun,

[1:33:30] funny movie.

[1:33:31] And, um,

[1:33:32] watching it,

[1:33:33] um,

[1:33:33] there was just a lot of times

[1:33:34] when I was laughing out loud.

[1:33:35] So it feels like,

[1:33:36] with this director,

[1:33:38] it's not exactly like

[1:33:39] Mel Brooks' stuff,

[1:33:40] but it does feel at times

[1:33:41] like I've discovered

[1:33:42] like a hidden vein

[1:33:43] of Mel Brooks movies

[1:33:45] that Mel Brooks didn't make.

[1:33:46] Um,

[1:33:46] and I'm getting the same

[1:33:47] kind of enjoyment out of them.

[1:33:48] So I would recommend it

[1:33:49] if you want to watch a comedy.

[1:33:50] A comedy mystery

[1:33:51] where it doesn't really matter

[1:33:53] what the mystery,

[1:33:54] like don't worry about

[1:33:54] the plot that much.

[1:33:55] And it's called

[1:33:55] Dinner for Adele.

[1:33:57] And all of these,

[1:33:58] uh,

[1:33:58] or this one and

[1:33:59] I think the movie that,

[1:34:00] another movie of his

[1:34:01] that I'll probably recommend

[1:34:01] next time

[1:34:02] are both available on Tubi.

[1:34:04] So it's easy to get.

[1:34:05] Oh yeah, Tubi.

Dan McCoy

[1:34:06] Just added it to my

[1:34:07] Letterboxd watch list,

[1:34:08] which means I will forget

[1:34:09] it's there

[1:34:10] and not see it.

[1:34:12] But I want to.

Elliott Kalan

[1:34:13] Also,

[1:34:13] I should mention

[1:34:14] one of the funny things in it

[1:34:15] that was funny is,

[1:34:16] um,

[1:34:16] one of the actors in it,

[1:34:18] this,

[1:34:18] uh,

[1:34:18] Rudolf Hruszynski.

[1:34:19] He is a,

[1:34:20] um,

[1:34:21] in this he plays

[1:34:22] the local police,

[1:34:23] police officer

[1:34:24] who like all he cares about

[1:34:25] is getting the best beer

[1:34:26] and eating sausages

[1:34:27] and he's kind of a,

[1:34:28] he's not a doof,

[1:34:28] but he's just like

[1:34:29] not taking the mystery seriously.

[1:34:30] But he is played by the lead,

[1:34:32] the same actor

[1:34:32] who played the lead

[1:34:33] in the movie

[1:34:33] The Cremator,

[1:34:34] which I recommended

[1:34:36] a long time ago,

[1:34:36] which is a very chilling movie

[1:34:38] and a very,

[1:34:38] like,

[1:34:39] intense movie.

[1:34:40] And it was just very funny

[1:34:41] to see him play this very,

[1:34:42] this comedy role,

[1:34:43] this very silly role.

[1:34:44] So,

[1:34:45] um,

[1:34:45] so I'd recommend it.

[1:34:46] Dinner for Adele.

Dan McCoy

[1:34:47] J.D.,

[1:34:47] do you have a movie

[1:34:48] you want to highlight?

S4

[1:34:49] I mean,

[1:34:49] I'm a big Tati head

[1:34:50] and I recently got to see

[1:34:51] Mon Uncle

[1:34:52] on the big screen

[1:34:53] for the first time

[1:34:54] in a theater,

[1:34:55] which I would say

[1:34:56] if you have,

[1:34:56] uh,

[1:34:57] similar to,

[1:34:57] to Elliot,

[1:34:58] if you want to go back in time

[1:34:59] and find some interesting comedy,

[1:35:01] I,

[1:35:01] and Jacques Tati is,

[1:35:02] I think,

[1:35:02] maybe my favorite filmmaker

[1:35:04] of just like doing unique,

[1:35:06] very specific,

[1:35:07] very specifically paced comedy.

[1:35:09] And it's funny

[1:35:09] because Mon Uncle,

[1:35:12] I brought friends to it

[1:35:13] and not unlike

[1:35:14] After Last Season,

[1:35:15] it has a very,

[1:35:17] a very particular pace to it

[1:35:19] that if you are having

[1:35:20] other people watch it with you,

[1:35:21] you have this feeling of like,

[1:35:22] come on,

[1:35:23] come on,

[1:35:23] just get to the joke,

[1:35:24] come on,

[1:35:24] get to the joke,

[1:35:25] my friends are bored,

[1:35:26] yeah,

[1:35:26] exactly.

[1:35:27] But it's actually a lovely movie

[1:35:28] and I think like,

[1:35:29] Tati films are meant to be seen

[1:35:30] in a theater with lots of people

[1:35:31] so you can enjoy it,

[1:35:32] so.

[1:35:33] You want to see,

Elliott Kalan

[1:35:34] he does stuff with the,

[1:35:35] with the frame too,

[1:35:36] it's much,

[1:35:37] those are much better

[1:35:38] on the big screen

[1:35:38] because you want to make,

[1:35:39] see all the details

[1:35:40] of what's happening.

[1:35:41] Yes,

[1:35:41] he called it

S4

[1:35:41] democratic filmmaking.

[1:35:43] He would,

[1:35:43] he'd shoot on 70 millimeter

[1:35:45] and he would highly choreograph

[1:35:46] everything in,

[1:35:47] I mean,

[1:35:47] playtime is really

[1:35:48] where this happens,

[1:35:49] but he's,

[1:35:49] he's playing with it

[1:35:51] in Mon Uncle

[1:35:51] where in the background

[1:35:52] and foreground,

[1:35:54] you know,

[1:35:54] separate from Monsieur Hulot,

[1:35:56] you can sort of see

[1:35:56] little scenes taking place

[1:35:57] and so at its best moments

[1:35:59] in a movie like Playtime,

[1:36:01] different parts of the audience

[1:36:02] will be laughing

[1:36:03] at different things

[1:36:03] because there's sort of

[1:36:04] different stuff happening

[1:36:05] in the corners of the scene,

[1:36:06] which is brilliant.

Elliott Kalan

[1:36:07] And you can also,

[1:36:08] he's so like,

[1:36:09] he'll distract you sometimes

[1:36:11] in a way

[1:36:12] the real joke is happening

[1:36:13] in that corner,

[1:36:14] you know,

[1:36:15] but it's a,

[1:36:16] he does,

[1:36:16] there's a,

[1:36:16] is it,

[1:36:17] oh no,

[1:36:17] it's in Hulot's Holiday,

[1:36:19] right?

[1:36:19] There's a,

[1:36:19] or maybe it's,

[1:36:20] I don't remember which one.

[1:36:21] There's a,

[1:36:21] there's a bit he has

[1:36:22] where a guy is painting a boat

[1:36:23] and the can of paint

[1:36:24] is washing in and out

[1:36:26] on the tide

[1:36:26] and it always shows up

[1:36:27] just as he needs to,

[1:36:28] needs to dip his brush back in

[1:36:29] and I'm always like,

[1:36:30] how did he do it?

[1:36:31] Like that's,

[1:36:31] that,

[1:36:32] unlike almost last,

[1:36:33] after last season

[1:36:34] where we were joking about like,

[1:36:35] how did he move that chair?

[1:36:36] That is one shot where I was like,

[1:36:37] how did he,

[1:36:38] how did he do that shot?

[1:36:39] Like,

[1:36:39] I don't get it.

S4

[1:36:40] I mean,

[1:36:40] it's funny because Mr. Hulot's Holiday

[1:36:41] is kind of like,

[1:36:43] the most like Mr. Bean

[1:36:44] and then like,

[1:36:46] Monon,

[1:36:46] it's like,

[1:36:46] gets closer and closer

[1:36:48] to this being like art

[1:36:49] and then like,

[1:36:49] playtime is like,

[1:36:50] if Mr. Bean made a film

[1:36:52] that was like,

[1:36:52] a three hour long art piece

[1:36:55] that Mr. Bean mostly wasn't in

[1:36:57] and like,

[1:36:58] bankrupted his entire estate

[1:37:00] but is like,

[1:37:02] an epic opus,

[1:37:03] so.

Dan McCoy

[1:37:03] I gotta see one of these

[1:37:04] on the big screen sometime

[1:37:05] because I,

[1:37:06] I confess that I have trouble

[1:37:08] locking in to the pace

[1:37:10] and everything.

[1:37:11] Like,

[1:37:11] when I first,

[1:37:13] when I went to France

[1:37:14] for a week

[1:37:15] on an exchange program

[1:37:16] when I was in school,

[1:37:18] in high school,

[1:37:19] that my,

[1:37:20] my host family's like,

[1:37:21] well,

[1:37:21] this is a,

[1:37:22] Monsieur Hulot's Holiday,

[1:37:24] this is,

[1:37:24] you know,

[1:37:25] he's,

[1:37:26] he's the greatest

[1:37:26] of French comedians.

[1:37:27] I'm like,

[1:37:27] great,

[1:37:28] great.

[1:37:28] This is gonna be,

[1:37:29] yeah.

[1:37:31] And,

Elliott Kalan

[1:37:31] oh,

[1:37:32] you want to see

[1:37:33] Dr. Dien?

[1:37:34] Oh,

[1:37:34] I'm a good.

[1:37:35] And I was like,

[1:37:36] mon cher.

[1:37:37] Now it's Gambit.

[1:37:38] This is whimsical,

Dan McCoy

[1:37:39] but I'm not laughing at it.

[1:37:42] I think,

[1:37:42] I think it really,

Elliott Kalan

[1:37:43] it requires such attention

[1:37:44] and it helps when you're

[1:37:45] in a movie theater.

[1:37:46] I think that that would

[1:37:46] lock me in.

S4

[1:37:47] But also playtime has more

[1:37:49] like hard laughs

[1:37:50] where I think like,

[1:37:51] Mon Uncle,

[1:37:52] truly it'll be like

[1:37:52] five minute setups

[1:37:53] or something where you're like,

[1:37:54] oh,

[1:37:54] that kind of does look

[1:37:55] like a face.

[1:37:56] Yeah,

[1:37:56] it's kind of fun.

[1:37:57] It is more whimsical.

[1:37:59] Yeah.

[1:37:59] Oh,

[1:38:00] yeah,

[1:38:00] that dog,

[1:38:00] that dog and that person

[1:38:01] do kind of look alike.

[1:38:03] Yeah.

[1:38:04] Which I enjoy,

[1:38:05] but I get if you're like

[1:38:06] looking for big walloping laughs.

[1:38:09] Yeah.

[1:38:09] Yeah,

Elliott Kalan

[1:38:09] Mon Uncle is the one

[1:38:10] with the house,

[1:38:10] right?

[1:38:11] Yes.

[1:38:11] Where,

[1:38:11] where it's like,

[1:38:12] yeah,

[1:38:12] like,

[1:38:13] yeah,

[1:38:13] you're like,

[1:38:13] yeah,

[1:38:13] when they turn on the lights,

[1:38:15] the windows does look

[1:38:15] kind of like it's a face

[1:38:16] with eyes.

[1:38:16] Oh,

[1:38:17] yeah,

[1:38:17] now it's looking over there.

[1:38:18] Exactly.

[1:38:18] Now it's looking over here.

[1:38:19] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:38:20] Is it like Scary Movie 2?

[1:38:23] Yeah,

[1:38:24] it's a lot like Scary Movie 2.

[1:38:24] How much is it like Scary Movie 2?

[1:38:26] Yeah,

[1:38:26] yeah,

[1:38:26] there's just jokes

[1:38:27] packed into every frame.

S4

[1:38:28] Mon Uncle is mostly like

[1:38:30] an older man

[1:38:32] with an umbrella

[1:38:33] and a hat

[1:38:34] and a trench coat

[1:38:35] sort of observing

[1:38:35] the modernity of France

[1:38:36] that develops

[1:38:37] and then there's also

[1:38:38] a bunch of like

[1:38:39] Britney Spears topical jokes

[1:38:40] that are thrown into it also.

[1:38:42] They're weirdly like

[1:38:43] mean about her

[1:38:44] for no real reason.

Elliott Kalan

[1:38:45] I know the reason.

[1:38:46] For some reason,

[1:38:47] there's a lot of parodies

[1:38:48] of movies that came out

[1:38:49] in 2003 specifically.

[1:38:51] Yeah,

S4

[1:38:51] and it's also parodies

[1:38:52] of other comedy movies.

Stuart Wellington

[1:38:54] Yeah,

[1:38:55] it's a parody

[1:38:55] as if it was like

[1:38:57] the same way

[1:38:57] that the movie quiz

[1:38:59] if you were sitting

[1:39:00] in the movie theater

[1:39:00] would all be for movies

[1:39:02] that are either

[1:39:02] just out

[1:39:03] or recently out.

[1:39:04] Yeah,

Elliott Kalan

[1:39:05] it reminds me of

[1:39:05] just recently,

[1:39:07] I don't remember why,

[1:39:08] on some list of something,

[1:39:10] it was,

[1:39:11] maybe I was looking up

[1:39:11] movies from a specific year,

[1:39:13] but it was just like,

[1:39:14] I was reminded

[1:39:14] of the existence

[1:39:15] of Remember the Spartans

[1:39:16] and I was like,

[1:39:17] oh yeah,

[1:39:18] that existed.

[1:39:19] That's a thing

[1:39:20] that was made

[1:39:21] and exists

[1:39:22] and is real,

Dan McCoy

[1:39:23] you know.

[1:39:24] Stuart,

[1:39:24] what you just said

[1:39:24] reminded me of,

[1:39:25] so I've switched over

[1:39:27] to Regal Unlimited

[1:39:28] recently

[1:39:28] because I was like,

[1:39:30] I don't.

[1:39:30] We're trying to boycott

[1:39:31] the Alamo a little.

[1:39:32] Well,

[1:39:32] I don't like,

[1:39:33] yeah,

[1:39:33] I don't like what

[1:39:34] the Alamo has done with.

[1:39:35] I was about

[1:39:35] Meet the Spartans.

[1:39:36] I was not

[1:39:36] Remember the Spartans.

[1:39:36] Meet the Spartans,

[1:39:37] yeah.

[1:39:38] like phone ordering

[1:39:38] and then they had,

[1:39:39] you know,

[1:39:39] like,

[1:39:39] I mean,

[1:39:40] labor issues before,

[1:39:42] but so,

[1:39:43] I'm going to the Regal

[1:39:45] and they've got,

[1:39:46] you know,

[1:39:46] like,

[1:39:47] never very good

[1:39:49] pre-show entertainment

[1:39:50] has gotten like,

[1:39:51] shittier over the years,

[1:39:52] I think.

Stuart Wellington

[1:39:52] It's gotten,

[1:39:53] it's gotten really bad.

[1:39:54] But at least

[1:39:54] with a Regal movie,

[1:39:56] you can show up like

[1:39:57] 30 minutes late

[1:39:58] and you haven't missed

[1:39:59] the movie.

[1:40:00] Because there's so much

[1:40:01] stuff that I'm going to share.

[1:40:02] It's a Toyota commercial.

Dan McCoy

[1:40:03] Have you guys seen this thing

[1:40:04] where there's like,

[1:40:05] it's about like

[1:40:06] perfect movie lines

[1:40:07] or whatever?

[1:40:08] Yes.

[1:40:08] It's just like,

S4

[1:40:09] it's always just that one line

Dan McCoy

[1:40:10] from Casablanca.

[1:40:10] Yeah,

[1:40:11] it's like,

[1:40:11] we'll always have

[1:40:12] gin joints

[1:40:14] or like,

[1:40:14] it's like the false ones

[1:40:15] or like,

[1:40:16] and then finally it's like,

[1:40:17] oh,

[1:40:17] we'll always have Paris.

S4

[1:40:19] I did a whole like

[1:40:20] breakdown of it

[1:40:21] for a Blink Check live show,

[1:40:22] but one of my favorite things

[1:40:23] is the evolution

[1:40:24] of the Coca-Cola

[1:40:26] student filmmaking challenge.

[1:40:27] Oh, yeah.

[1:40:28] Because it started

[1:40:29] as this thing

[1:40:29] where it was like,

[1:40:30] the students could

[1:40:31] kind of make something

[1:40:32] and now it's like,

[1:40:33] they get to make

[1:40:34] an eight second short film,

[1:40:36] but it's literally

[1:40:37] just a straight up commercial

[1:40:38] for Coca-Cola.

[1:40:39] But they still have

[1:40:40] the student to be like,

[1:40:41] hi,

[1:40:41] watch my short film.

[1:40:42] And then it's like,

[1:40:43] Coca-Cola is great.

[1:40:46] And you're like,

[1:40:47] this was your short film

[1:40:48] that you had an idea for?

[1:40:49] It's clearly just Coke

[1:40:50] being like,

[1:40:51] here's what you're going to make.

[1:40:52] Yeah,

Stuart Wellington

[1:40:52] and fucking Mark Regin

[1:40:53] sitting in the theater

[1:40:54] being like,

[1:40:55] I don't understand.

S4

[1:40:56] Mark Regin's like,

[1:40:58] they went from wide shot

[1:40:59] to close up.

[1:40:59] There's no fan.

[1:41:01] There's no wall in between.

Dan McCoy

[1:41:03] What is this 180 degree line

[1:41:04] that they're following?

[1:41:05] He goes,

[1:41:06] this is the scariest movie

[1:41:07] I've ever seen.

S4

[1:41:07] This is amazing.

[1:41:08] I think if we gave Mark Regin,

[1:41:10] I think Mark Regin's issue

[1:41:11] is that he,

[1:41:12] I don't think he should be

[1:41:13] writing, directing,

[1:41:14] shooting,

[1:41:15] and producing.

[1:41:16] Too much.

[1:41:16] But I'd be curious

[1:41:17] if you gave Mark Regin

[1:41:18] a script

[1:41:19] that someone else wrote

[1:41:20] what he would do with it.

Dan McCoy

[1:41:22] He'd mess it up.

[1:41:24] But in an interesting way.

[1:41:26] JD,

[1:41:29] thank you so much

[1:41:31] for being here

[1:41:32] along with your book.

[1:41:34] I mean,

[1:41:34] is there anything else

[1:41:35] you want to plug

[1:41:36] before we...

S4

[1:41:36] No, that's it.

[1:41:37] The Endless Game,

[1:41:38] Bookstores Everywhere.

[1:41:39] It's about a kid

[1:41:40] who moves to a new town

[1:41:42] where every kid in the town

[1:41:43] is part of a game

[1:41:43] of Capture the Flag

[1:41:44] that's been going on

[1:41:45] for 80 years

[1:41:46] and has split the town in two.

[1:41:47] And it's really a book

[1:41:49] about like

[1:41:50] that period of time

[1:41:53] as a kid

[1:41:53] where you're trying

[1:41:54] to figure out your identity.

[1:41:56] And for me,

[1:41:56] Grant in the Suburbs

[1:41:57] was out with my friends

[1:41:58] and this is just like

[1:41:59] a heightened,

[1:41:59] fantastical version of that.

[1:42:01] So yeah,

[1:42:02] Bookstores Everywhere

[1:42:03] and also,

[1:42:03] you know,

[1:42:04] j.d.amato

[1:42:06] on Instagram

[1:42:07] and you can see

[1:42:07] book events

[1:42:08] and links to

[1:42:09] where to get the book.

Dan McCoy

[1:42:12] I recommend it

[1:42:13] very much.

[1:42:15] I enjoyed it

[1:42:16] even not as a child.

[1:42:18] I have the brain

[1:42:19] of a child,

[1:42:19] but I'm ostensibly

[1:42:21] an adult man.

[1:42:23] Well,

[1:42:24] thank you for being here.

[1:42:24] Thank you also

[1:42:25] to Maximum Fun.

[1:42:27] Go to MaximumFun.org.

[1:42:28] Check out all the other

[1:42:29] great shows

[1:42:30] on the MaxFun network.

[1:42:32] Thank you to Alex,

[1:42:33] our producer.

[1:42:34] He goes by the name

[1:42:35] Howl Dottie.

[1:42:36] If you want a few laughs,

[1:42:39] download Big Howl and Possum.

[1:42:41] It's a very strange podcast that Alex does.

[1:42:45] It's very funny.

[1:42:47] But for this episode of The Flophouse,

[1:42:49] I've been Dan McCoy.

[1:42:50] I've been Stuart Wellington.

Elliott Kalan

[1:42:52] I've been Elliot Kalin.

[1:42:53] And we've been joined by...

[1:42:55] J.D. Amato.

[1:42:56] Okay.

[1:42:57] And hi, Jay.

[1:42:59] Hi, Jay.

[1:43:01] Bye, Jay.

[1:43:05] On this episode, we discuss After Last Season.

Dan McCoy

[1:43:15] Yeah.

[1:43:16] No one?

[1:43:17] Yeah.

[1:43:17] I didn't have a hot one.

[1:43:19] Okay, Dan.

[1:43:19] Try again.

[1:43:20] Try again.

[1:43:21] I'll get one in a second.

[1:43:22] Okay.

[1:43:23] Yeah.

[1:43:24] Heat it up.

Elliott Kalan

[1:43:28] Alternate title, Halls and Walls, the movie.

[1:43:33] Okay.

[1:43:33] That's also an alternate title for The Back Rooms.

Dan McCoy

[1:43:35] Yeah, that's true.

[1:43:36] Okay, I've got another one.

[1:43:37] I've got another one.

[1:43:37] Okay.

[1:43:43] I had one.

[1:43:44] Wait, I thought you had one.

[1:43:45] I thought I had one.

S4

[1:43:45] I hadn't quite phrased it right.

[1:43:47] Wait, wait.

[1:43:47] I've got one.

Dan McCoy

[1:43:48] I've got one.

[1:43:48] Oh, wow.

[1:43:49] Unprecedented, but let's do it.

S4

[1:43:55] An MRI is a type of image that you can learn a lot of things about the brain from inside.

[1:44:02] You take a scan.

[1:44:07] Perfect.

[1:44:08] Just a 20-minute long open.

[1:44:10] Actually, Dan, I've got another one.

[1:44:11] I've got another one now.

[1:44:13] Maximum Fun.

Dan McCoy

[1:44:14] A worker-owned network.

[1:44:16] Of artist-owned shows.

[1:44:18] Supported directly by you.

After Last Season, with J.D. Amato

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