Ep.#462 - Imaginary

Dan McCoy

[0:00] On this Shocktober episode, we discuss imaginary.

Stuart Wellington

[0:06] Woof, I wish this movie was imaginary.

[0:10] Still, I said that right before we started recording.

[0:30] Hey, everyone, and welcome to The Flophouse.

Dan McCoy

[0:38] I'm Dan McCoy.

Stuart Wellington

[0:40] And I'm Stuart Willington, all the way from New York City.

Elliott Kalan

[0:44] And I'm Elliot Kalin, and I'm recording in a different mode than usual because there's a Dan next to me.

[0:49] Hey, that's not usually there in my bedroom.

Dan McCoy

[0:51] I'm recording from Elliot's bedroom, where the magic happens.

[0:55] I'm right here.

[0:57] Look at all these rabbits and hats.

[1:00] Yeah, a lot of doves, cards.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02] It must stank in there, you know?

[1:05] You know what I mean?

[1:06] I mean, I live in a clean house, Stuart.

Elliott Kalan

[1:08] A clean house with a clean bed.

[1:10] Yeah, why must it stank in there, Stuart?

Dan McCoy

[1:12] Look at Elliot.

Elliott Kalan

[1:13] Elliot knows what I'm talking about.

[1:15] I don't have any idea what you're talking about.

Stuart Wellington

[1:17] Oh, man, yeah, oh, buddy.

Elliott Kalan

[1:20] Oh, buddy, oh, how?

[1:23] Dan, what do we do on this podcast other than talk about stank?

Dan McCoy

[1:25] This is a podcast where we watch a bad movie and then we talk about it.

[1:29] And, of course, it is Shocktober, the time of year that we talk about scary movies or movies that purport to be scary.

[1:40] It's a spooky month.

[1:41] It's spooky times.

[1:42] That's true.

[1:43] And on this episode, we're going to talk about a movie.

[1:47] It's actually from last year that I think people were a little disappointed we didn't get to.

[1:52] It was the sort of standout flop horror film of last year.

Elliott Kalan

[1:57] People took to the streets in anger.

[1:59] And we had to listen to the voice of the people.

[2:02] The Vox Populi rose as one and said, wither imaginary flop house.

Dan McCoy

[2:08] And we said, why are you talking that way?

Stuart Wellington

[2:10] Yeah, this is the first time I heard of this movie when you suggested watching it.

[2:15] So maybe I'm deaf to the people.

Elliott Kalan

[2:18] I realized I thought I had never heard of it and then I recognized the poster.

[2:22] The poster, once you see the poster, which it says imaginary and there's like, I don't know, like a little stuff.

[2:27] There's like a, I mean, the poster that's here online is like there's a little girl sitting in front of like a glowing portal and there's like a little stuffed bear next door.

[2:34] And you're like, okay, it's an evil imaginary friend.

[2:36] I get it.

[2:36] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[2:37] And it's, and the poster is the first thing that, of many, that attempts to evoke poltergeist and fails.

[2:44] Yes.

Elliott Kalan

[2:46] This is a movie.

[2:46] It's amazing.

[2:47] It's trying to be poltergeist really badly.

[2:48] It's also, let's just get it right out of the way.

[2:51] It's the movie if, but the scary movie version as opposed to the makes your stomach hurt with saccharine version.

[2:58] Yeah.

[2:59] It's drop dead Fred, but less scary.

[3:02] That's true.

Stuart Wellington

[3:02] There's like, and there's some like Beetlejuice in there and there's some like the Boogeyman episodes of the Star Wars, the real Ghostbusters TV show.

Elliott Kalan

[3:10] There's another Star Wars Boogeyman Halloween special.

[3:12] Now I want to see, I want to see a Star Wars horror story so badly now.

[3:15] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[3:16] Mmm.

[3:17] Delicious Beetlejuice.

Elliott Kalan

[3:19] Dan, a lot of times when you eat something and you're like, what is this flavor?

[3:22] What makes it so good?

[3:23] It's the Beetlejuice.

[3:24] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[3:25] Yeah.

[3:25] I mean, didn't, didn't, wasn't Campari originally colored by Beetles?

[3:30] So in a way, it's like, Campari is the original Beetlejuice.

Elliott Kalan

[3:34] A number of dyes are made by grinding up beetles.

Dan McCoy

[3:36] Yeah.

[3:36] I was trying to remember.

[3:37] I remember this factoid, but not as well as you guys.

[3:40] So you got to it.

Elliott Kalan

[3:42] Do you know, if you buy, if you buy red clothes, that's, that's probably the blood of George Harrison or John Lennon that has been ground up.

[3:49] They grind up beetles to make that color.

[3:51] Yeah.

[3:51] Hmm.

Dan McCoy

[3:52] And their bones to make, to make your bread.

[3:56] Yes.

Elliott Kalan

[3:56] Well, the Englishman.

[3:57] Yeah.

[3:57] If you grind up Pete Best, it doesn't, you don't get quite as rich a color, you know, not a full Beetle.

[4:02] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[4:03] Stu Sutcliffe, same thing.

[4:05] Anyway.

[4:06] So.

Stuart Wellington

[4:06] Original Paul McCartney, same thing.

Dan McCoy

[4:09] Yeah.

[4:09] Right.

[4:09] Before he was replaced by a robot.

Stuart Wellington

[4:11] I just, I literally just learned of this conspiracy theory today.

[4:14] You didn't know about that?

Elliott Kalan

[4:15] No.

[4:15] How they tried to replace original Paul McCartney with Paul McCartney, with new Paul McCartney.

[4:19] And people looked at the taste tests.

[4:20] In the 80s.

[4:21] The new flavor of Paul McCartney won out.

[4:23] But when it actually came out, people wanted Paul McCartney classic.

Stuart Wellington

[4:26] Which one's, which one's saying that wild duet, The Girl Is Mine?

Elliott Kalan

[4:30] That was, I was actually Paul McCartney number three.

[4:32] That was the one they bred in a lab who like wasn't all there.

[4:35] But yeah, you never heard about the Paul McCartney, Paul's Dead conspiracy?

[4:38] It's a classic.

[4:39] No, I never heard it.

[4:39] Yeah.

[4:40] Yeah.

[4:41] Well.

Stuart Wellington

[4:42] This was a conspiracy theory podcast, right?

[4:44] No.

[4:44] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[4:44] It was, what I love, before we get into imaginary, what I love about that conspiracy theory is the

[4:47] idea that Paul died.

[4:49] They didn't want anyone to know.

[4:50] So they replaced him and then left clues in all of their work so that you could find out that Paul had died.

[4:55] It's like, really?

[4:56] Like, what are they, Batman villains?

[4:57] Like, they're trying to get caught?

[4:58] What's going on here?

[4:59] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[4:59] Come on.

[4:59] I mean, that's the thing.

[5:00] That's the only thing that's better than committing a crime.

[5:03] The only thing better is like teasing people to let them know you did it.

[5:07] And John Lennon was like, we gave you all the clues, Mr. Policeman.

Elliott Kalan

[5:11] Oh, man.

[5:12] That actually sounded more like Paul.

Dan McCoy

[5:14] Yeah.

[5:15] Well, what are you going to do?

[5:15] Let's talk about imaginary.

Elliott Kalan

[5:17] Is that what we're doing today?

Dan McCoy

[5:18] That's what we're doing.

Elliott Kalan

[5:20] We're trying.

[5:21] Stuart, he realized we were stalling, so we didn't have to talk about imaginary.

Dan McCoy

[5:24] Yeah.

[5:24] He called our bluff.

Stuart Wellington

[5:25] Do you have any more conspiracies you want to talk about?

Dan McCoy

[5:28] This is, you know, it's been a while since I've watched a PG-13 horror because horror has had, you know, kind of a resurgence.

[5:36] And there's a lot of great horror out there.

[5:38] And we are mostly out of the period of time where it seemed like producers were like, we got to make this all PG-13 so we can get the widest possible audience with the most dreck, the most watered-down dreck.

Elliott Kalan

[5:50] They realized at a certain point that people, audiences like horror, which is the kind of thing the movie business rediscovers every 20 years or so.

[5:59] And yeah, so horror has been a real hard edge lately.

[6:02] But you're right, for a while it was like we got to have horror that young people can go see, young kids.

[6:08] And yeah, so what did you think about seeing a PG-13 movie, Dan?

Dan McCoy

[6:11] I was, one of the most striking things about this film is how unscary it is.

[6:18] And not just how unscary it is, but every time there was something that clearly was meant to be a scare, I sort of had to like rewind it a few times to be like, wait, what was supposed to be scary?

[6:29] Like people were reacting as if something happened.

[6:30] And I'm like, oh no, nothing really happened.

Elliott Kalan

[6:32] I will say there's a section in the middle of this movie where I was like, this movie, despite itself, is starting to become an effective for me horror movie.

[6:41] And then the movie throws that all away and gets very, for lack of a better word, kind of like PG-13 Jim Henson-y almost, you know, by the end of it.

Dan McCoy

[6:52] Yeah.

[6:52] I see what you're saying, but I found the middle section to be the most like perturbing because it was like the most unscary.

[6:58] And at the end, at least, the silliness at least was something.

Elliott Kalan

[7:04] I guess so.

[7:05] I mean, the beginning of it is so boring though.

[7:07] We'll talk about it.

[7:07] I found the first 40 minutes of this movie very dull.

Stuart Wellington

[7:10] I really want to hear Dan describe this movie that he ain't scared of, Mr. Big Balls over here.

Elliott Kalan

[7:16] Stu, you were wetting yourself the whole time.

Dan McCoy

[7:18] Yeah, you're going to see me.

[7:19] Constantly.

[7:19] Yeah.

[7:20] You're going to see me shivering as I read the synopsis.

[7:23] I'm like, oh, this is scary.

[7:25] Okay, so we start with a tiny door and a woman bursts from it and she says, sorry, we couldn't finish our game.

[7:34] Just someone unseen and a bunch of stuff happens.

[7:37] There's like a poem on the wall with crayon.

[7:39] There's blood.

[7:40] There's a bloody tooth.

[7:41] And a man with a bloody mouth grabs her and says, your friend isn't coming back before turning all spidery.

[7:47] And there's a creepy hall and a kid's bedroom and blah, blah, blah.

[7:51] And, you know, she tries to wake this kid before the Spider-Man attacks.

[7:56] Not Spider-Man.

[7:58] Not Spider-Man.

[7:58] A man spider.

[7:59] A man spider.

Elliott Kalan

[8:00] I mean, which was one of Spider-Man's transformations when Spider-Man went to the Savage Land.

[8:05] He became the man spider.

Stuart Wellington

[8:06] But he doesn't own the fucking rights to all Spider-Men.

Elliott Kalan

[8:09] He does.

[8:09] He actually does own the rights to the name Spider-Man.

Dan McCoy

[8:11] So we're kicking off with a bunch of, you know, scary imagery we have no context for.

[8:16] So it doesn't mean anything.

Elliott Kalan

[8:18] And much of that imagery does not really come back.

Dan McCoy

[8:21] Not really.

[8:23] But don't worry, guys.

Stuart Wellington

[8:24] This like style of cold open horror is effective.

[8:28] And I think a lot of movies like, they like a scare up front.

[8:31] They like to set the tone of the movie.

[8:33] In this case, the tone is things don't make sense.

Elliott Kalan

[8:36] I think it sets the tone of desperate flailing to try to figure out what is going to scare you.

Dan McCoy

[8:41] Yeah, I would disagree with the idea that it is effective.

[8:46] I would say it is a thing that studios seem to like because they have to tell you up front that you're watching a horror movie.

[8:53] Because otherwise, the person who bought the ticket to a horror movie would be like, I don't know what kind of movie this is.

[8:58] Is it going to get scary at any point?

Elliott Kalan

[8:59] I mean, to be honest, I think it's designed not for the ticket-buying audience but for the streaming or home-viewing audience.

[9:05] Yeah, possibly.

[9:05] Like, you have to have a scare up front or else they might zap away within seconds.

Dan McCoy

[9:10] But don't worry.

[9:11] Don't worry, guys.

[9:12] Don't get too scared by any of it.

[9:14] Too late.

[9:14] I'm terrified.

[9:15] It's just a dream.

[9:16] It's just a dream.

[9:16] The best way for a movie to begin by telling you that what you saw doesn't matter.

Elliott Kalan

[9:20] That was just a dream.

[9:22] Just a dream.

[9:22] Dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee.

[9:26] I'm glad that Zoom immediately starts editing this out.

[9:31] You don't have the rights to that song.

[9:33] Oh, good point.

[9:33] Good point.

[9:34] We've been so good about that up till now.

Dan McCoy

[9:36] So we meet Jess, who's the woman of the dream, who's having the dream, and her husband, Max.

[9:42] We learn they're moving back into Jess's childhood home with their two kids from Max's previous marriage.

Elliott Kalan

[9:48] Now, I would describe their relationship as just met the day before shooting.

Dan McCoy

[9:52] Yeah.

[9:53] Yeah.

[9:53] Well, and also, don't worry.

[9:56] Max will disappear for most of the movies, so you won't have to know too much about him.

[9:59] He's going on tour with his band.

Stuart Wellington

[10:00] Yeah.

[10:01] I know he's got an English accent, and he's a guy in a band.

[10:04] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[10:05] And he's got a classic crazy ex.

[10:08] I mean, so I guess he maybe could be a Beatle, you know?

[10:12] Possibly.

[10:13] Yeah.

[10:13] It's true.

Dan McCoy

[10:14] Yeah.

[10:14] There's nothing in the movie that says he isn't a Beatle.

Elliott Kalan

[10:17] There's nothing in the movie except his name, which is not one of the Beatles' names.

[10:23] His face.

[10:23] The fact that he's a young person now, yeah.

[10:28] But you really got to dig hard.

[10:29] Stuart's doing the math in his head.

Stuart Wellington

[10:30] I see him looking.

[10:30] But he does have like a little beard, right?

[10:32] That could be anything.

[10:34] That's true.

[10:34] Ringo Starr has a little beard.

[10:36] He does.

[10:36] Maybe this is Ringo Starr.

Elliott Kalan

[10:40] I think he's still touring, Ringo Starr.

[10:42] Yeah.

[10:42] This could be him.

Dan McCoy

[10:43] Anyway, Max has two kids from a previous marriage.

Elliott Kalan

[10:46] Maxwell Silverhammer.

[10:47] He is a Beatle.

[10:48] Okay.

Dan McCoy

[10:48] There's a younger daughter, Alice, and a teenage daughter, Taylor.

[10:52] And Alice seems willing to accept Jess as her new mom.

[10:55] But Taylor is more resistant because she is a teen.

[10:59] Yeah.

[11:00] Classic teen.

Stuart Wellington

[11:02] She's like a very angry teen.

[11:04] And there's like weird moments where she's affable.

[11:08] But for the most part, she's just really like mad at everything.

[11:11] And at first, I was like, this is annoying.

[11:12] And then by the end, I'm like, that's kind of growing on me.

[11:15] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[11:15] And she earns it.

[11:16] I mean, what we pick up from the back story is I guess their mother had some kind of what?

[11:21] Mental breakdown.

[11:21] Breakdown, yeah.

[11:22] And is kind of a stalking or a danger to them.

Dan McCoy

[11:26] Yeah.

[11:27] At one point early on here, Max explains to Jess that you give love to kids and usually get jack shit in return.

[11:33] Elliot, true or false?

Elliott Kalan

[11:35] Very accurate.

[11:36] Very accurate.

[11:37] Considering I know both my boys love me, they do not like to show it, admit it, or they like to – one of them in particular likes to, as a joke, tell me he does not love me or that he sometimes loves me.

[11:48] And you just have to take it on faith that all the things you do for them, which are so many, are received in the spirit of love.

Stuart Wellington

[11:54] That's a pretty good joke.

[11:55] Yeah, that's a hilarious joke.

[11:57] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[11:57] The punchline is he enjoys the discomfort that I get from it.

[12:01] You know, it's a real Andy Kaufman type routine.

[12:03] Yeah.

[12:03] The audience becomes the victim, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[12:06] Yeah.

[12:06] He likes the way that the company looks uncomfortable when he says it in front of them.

Elliott Kalan

[12:10] Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[12:12] The same way when the company shows up and he likes to go, Daddy, why did you touch me there?

[12:15] And I go, what?

[12:16] That didn't happen.

Stuart Wellington

[12:17] But I'm up for a big promotion.

Elliott Kalan

[12:20] Yeah.

[12:20] I guess what I'm saying is my son is Clifford.

[12:23] The dog?

[12:25] Yeah.

[12:25] Yeah, Clifford the big red dog.

[12:27] Yeah, exactly.

Dan McCoy

[12:28] So they return to Jess's old family home.

[12:32] They're settling there to live.

[12:34] Alice is afraid of the drawings in Jess's office.

[12:37] We learn Jess is a children's book writer and illustrator.

[12:42] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[12:44] She's got a series that's called Millie Millipede or something?

[12:46] Molly Millipede.

[12:47] Molly Millipede.

[12:48] Where there's an evil spider guy named what?

Dan McCoy

[12:49] Simon the Spider.

[12:51] Simon the Spider.

[12:52] Kind of, I guess, villainous character, although she writes a-

Stuart Wellington

[12:55] Yeah, kind of an anthropomorphic Spider-Man.

Elliott Kalan

[12:57] Yeah.

[12:57] And for anyone listening, they're like, Simon the Spider, that's another Beatles thing.

[13:01] No, that's the Who and it's Boris the Spider.

[13:03] So you're wrong on both counts.

[13:04] Get the hell out of here.

Dan McCoy

[13:06] Yeah.

[13:06] Well, you told that person-

[13:08] I did.

[13:08] Maybe exists.

[13:09] I did.

[13:11] But yeah, later on, we learned that maybe-

[13:14] She writes a book from Simon's point of view to show that maybe seemingly bad guys can have a good side.

[13:20] Anyway.

[13:21] I don't know.

[13:21] Yeah, I mean, the Bad Guys is a serious hit of an animated series, right?

[13:26] And the Bad Guys 2 is a movie that also exists.

Elliott Kalan

[13:29] Yeah.

[13:29] That's what I'm saying.

[13:30] To be honest, I kind of like it more than the first one.

Dan McCoy

[13:32] Oh, really?

[13:33] Yeah.

[13:33] I don't know anything.

[13:33] I saw the first one.

[13:35] I thought it was fine.

[13:36] And then the second one just tanked like a stone.

[13:39] And I'm like, you know what?

[13:39] I've had my fill of bad guys.

[13:40] Did it tank like a stone?

[13:41] It was not a success.

Elliott Kalan

[13:43] It was-

[13:43] Oh, I'm surprised by that.

[13:44] The theater was full and I went to see it.

[13:46] Do you think they should have called it Despicable Them?

[13:49] Bleh.

Stuart Wellington

[13:51] Bleh.

[13:52] I guess so.

[13:54] Isn't that-

[13:55] I don't like this recording stuff anymore.

Dan McCoy

[14:01] You guys are-

[14:02] It's not so easy to just be out on your own.

[14:04] Is it more comforting to have me next to you?

[14:07] Yes.

Elliott Kalan

[14:08] So now you know what it's like for me?

[14:09] Every single time, just sitting here, off in space, you guys are yucking it up.

[14:12] Screaming into a void, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[14:14] Oh, that's sad.

[14:16] Well, now, I mean, we'll have to do it round robin style.

[14:19] I'll have to do it alone.

[14:19] But think about it.

Dan McCoy

[14:20] Despicable Them because there's multiples.

[14:21] Then we'll do that around robin.

Stuart Wellington

[14:22] And Despicable Me is a successful movie about a bad guy.

[14:26] So why don't-

[14:27] You know what I mean.

Elliott Kalan

[14:27] No, I got-

[14:28] The math works.

[14:29] It was not that I didn't see the logic of the joke.

Stuart Wellington

[14:32] Did I not say it silly enough?

Elliott Kalan

[14:34] Maybe that was it.

[14:35] Yeah, maybe try it as a goofy voice.

Dan McCoy

[14:37] Yeah, yeah.

[14:37] Goosed it a little, I guess.

[14:39] Slightly.

[14:40] Like a goose voice.

[14:42] Yeah, can you do it as an evil goose?

[14:44] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[14:45] More like they should have called a despicable them.

Dan McCoy

[14:48] No, you know what?

[14:49] You know what?

Elliott Kalan

[14:50] For me, it failed.

Dan McCoy

[14:50] I liked it.

[14:52] I wouldn't say that was an evil goose.

[14:53] It was more like a goofy goose.

[14:54] You heard him, Stuart.

[14:55] Dan wants you on his team.

[14:58] Okay.

[14:59] Anyway.

[15:01] What do we got here?

[15:01] Oh, okay.

Elliott Kalan

[15:03] So-

[15:03] So she's a children's book illustrator.

[15:05] It scares Alice a little bit.

[15:06] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[15:07] Jess gets distracted in the middle of a game of hide and seek while Alice goes to the basement.

Elliott Kalan

[15:12] This is a classic thing you should not do as an adult is play hide and seek and then leave in the middle of the game.

Dan McCoy

[15:16] And then get a call and be like, yeah, she'll be okay.

Elliott Kalan

[15:19] It'll be fine.

[15:19] She probably won't hide inside the dryer or something, a place that kids love to hide.

[15:23] They should not go in there.

[15:24] It's not safe.

Dan McCoy

[15:25] But when Alice is in the basement, she finds a teddy bear hidden in a door in the wall.

[15:30] And she talks to it as if she can hear it saying thanks.

[15:32] That's a weird place for a teddy bear, guys.

Elliott Kalan

[15:33] It's one of the top three weirder places for a teddy bear.

Dan McCoy

[15:36] I heard of a bear like sort of stuck in a rabbit hole once.

[15:40] That's a place where a bear can be found.

[15:42] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[15:42] You can find a bear stuck halfway through a rabbit hole.

[15:44] Yeah.

[15:45] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[15:45] Or covered in mud attached to a balloon.

[15:48] I think it was the same bear.

[15:49] It's the same bear.

Elliott Kalan

[15:50] It's the same bear.

[15:51] Yeah.

[15:52] Any other bears you can think of, Dan?

[15:54] Uh-oh.

[15:55] Well, there's one.

[15:56] Don't say looking for heffalumps.

[15:57] Same bear, Dan.

[15:58] Okay.

Dan McCoy

[15:58] Well, floating down an African river.

Elliott Kalan

[16:01] Okay.

[16:02] That's a different bear.

[16:03] That's a different bear.

[16:03] Yeah.

[16:04] There you go.

Dan McCoy

[16:05] Anyway.

[16:06] Is it Africa?

[16:07] I can't remember where the jungle book is.

[16:08] No, the jungle book is in India.

[16:09] India.

[16:09] Okay.

[16:09] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[16:09] That's why there's a tiger there.

Stuart Wellington

[16:11] Yeah.

[16:11] That makes sense.

[16:12] What about a bear that just stalks Danny Moonstar?

Elliott Kalan

[16:16] Yeah.

[16:16] That's a different.

[16:17] I mean, there's two of those inside of everybody.

[16:19] And that's where you find them.

[16:21] So she should have found this teddy bear inside of her with another teddy bear that is not

[16:24] evil.

[16:24] Because as it becomes pretty clear, this is an evil teddy bear, right?

[16:27] Almost immediately, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[16:28] This bear's name is Chauncey.

[16:30] Mm-hmm.

[16:32] Meanwhile, Taylor is, you know, sad because she's moved to a new town.

Elliott Kalan

[16:36] Because he wants to marry Tytel, Tevye's daughter.

[16:39] But Tevye's daughter is promised to Laser Wolf the Butcher, a poor tailor.

[16:42] Even a poor tailor deserves some happiness.

Dan McCoy

[16:45] She's taking a confident selfie to pretend that everything's okay in her life to like, you

[16:49] know.

Stuart Wellington

[16:50] It's a pretty funny selfie choice because like her backdrop is what, the window?

[16:56] It's like, it's not like it's a good view.

[16:58] She's going to be backlit.

[16:58] Except for the creepy old monster lady in the back.

[17:01] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[17:01] She's just showing, she's like, look at this.

[17:04] I have sunlight in my life, you know.

Dan McCoy

[17:06] Yeah.

[17:07] She sees this, some sort of creepy figure downstairs which causes her to run downstairs outside.

[17:13] Whoever it is is gone, but she meets the hunky boy next door.

[17:15] I think this is very funny.

Elliott Kalan

[17:17] This is up there with, in the electric state, when a woman, when, what's her name, when,

[17:20] um, uh, hears like something in the garbage cans and immediately assumes it must be a danger

[17:26] that she has to confront and not a raccoon.

[17:28] Yeah.

[17:28] That, that she sees, she's like in the window, she sees there's an old lady standing on the

[17:31] sidewalk and she's like, oh, I've got to investigate this.

[17:34] Yeah.

[17:34] Well, and she's like.

[17:35] This suburban street can't have any old ladies on it.

Stuart Wellington

[17:37] And she like whirls around so that like, you know, it feels like she's like, let's whirl

[17:43] around to reveal that there's nobody standing there, but you can kind of see somebody leaving

[17:47] the frame real quick.

Elliott Kalan

[17:49] Yeah.

[17:49] Because this is not a ghost.

[17:50] This is just their neighbor.

[17:51] Yeah.

[17:51] This is my favorite character in the movie who we'll eventually meet, but.

[17:54] Yeah.

[17:54] But downstairs, she's a.

[17:55] Meet the hunky neighbor.

[17:56] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[17:56] She flirts with the boy next door.

[17:58] He's my favorite character in the movie.

[18:00] This boy says it's probably old bag Patterson who tried to buy the house that they're in

[18:05] now.

[18:06] They're interrupting.

[18:07] They're interrupted in their discussion of bars that don't check IDs by protective mother

[18:12] Jess.

[18:14] You know, there's some stuff where they overhear Alice talking to Chauncey, more like creepy

[18:20] stuff.

[18:22] What was that?

[18:23] What happened?

[18:24] No, it's just creepy.

Elliott Kalan

[18:25] I just think it's funny to summary.

[18:26] They had some creepy stuff.

[18:28] You know, creepy.

[18:28] Yeah.

[18:29] They discover that she's.

[18:31] Oh, sorry.

[18:31] So you're summarizing the movie the same way that the guy summarized what was in his refrigerator

[18:34] in the Sunny D commercial.

[18:36] Yeah.

[18:36] Purpose of.

[18:36] Yeah, whatever.

Dan McCoy

[18:37] Well, this is a movie.

[18:39] Sorry, go on.

Stuart Wellington

[18:40] I was just saying that the creepy stuff is she now starts speaking in a voice for Chauncey.

[18:46] Yes.

Elliott Kalan

[18:47] Yeah.

[18:48] I'm an evil bear voice.

[18:49] You know what I'm saying?

[18:50] It actually doesn't sound like that at all when I think about it.

[18:53] Cookie crisp.

Dan McCoy

[18:55] Oh, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[18:57] Now, I say here, what we've got is a bear.

[19:00] I'm an evil bear.

[19:01] Understand, son?

[19:02] I want my two dollars.

[19:04] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[19:05] Is that a bear thing?

Elliott Kalan

[19:07] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[19:08] I mean, the kid's pretty creepy, right?

[19:09] That kid was a bear?

[19:10] That kid was a bear, yeah.

[19:11] That's the subtext of Better Off Dead.

Elliott Kalan

[19:13] A lot of people don't know in the original screenplay for Better Off Dead, that kid's referred

[19:15] to as shaved bear kid.

[19:19] But you wouldn't get that.

[19:20] They had trouble finding a bear they could shave and play that part, so they had just a

[19:23] kid to it.

[19:24] Yeah.

[19:24] It was called Bairder Off Dead, originally.

[19:27] And then they became Barter Off Dead in a world without money.

[19:30] How does this kid deal with high school?

[19:32] And they became Bader Off Dead.

Stuart Wellington

[19:33] Bader Off Dead, where you're a dad instead of dead.

Elliott Kalan

[19:36] That it was Batter Off Dead, where he's a baker instead of a student.

[19:39] Yeah.

[19:39] Then it was Batter Off Dead, where he's a baseball player.

[19:42] Yeah.

[19:42] Then it was Batter Off Dead, where he's a bat.

[19:44] Yeah.

[19:45] Uh-huh.

[19:45] Then it was Batter, B-A-D-D-E-R, Off Dead, where he was like worse than dead, which is

[19:50] like, I guess, you know, just really sad all the time.

Stuart Wellington

[19:53] And then there was Better Off Dud, where he's Dudley Moore.

Elliott Kalan

[19:57] Yes.

[19:57] And then it was Better Off Doug, where he's Doug from the TV show Doug.

[20:00] Yeah.

[20:00] Better Off Ted, which was a different TV show.

[20:03] That was used later on.

[20:04] Yeah.

[20:04] Sure.

[20:05] It's also a movie.

[20:07] Yeah.

[20:08] Was that character Better Off Ted?

[20:10] Because I don't feel like it was particularly.

[20:12] I don't know what the standard is.

[20:13] Better Off Than What, you know?

[20:14] Yeah.

[20:15] Hard to say.

[20:17] And then it was Better Off Teddy Ruxpin, which brings us to Bears, Dan.

[20:21] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[20:21] Yeah.

[20:22] Yeah.

[20:22] Well, I mean, part of why, so I'm going through like this, like there's some creepy stuff happened,

[20:27] is the whole first part of it, like eventually stuff starts happening and a surprising amount

[20:33] of stuff starts happening.

[20:34] But for a long time, there's not a lot of stuff that happens.

[20:37] It takes a long time for the plot to kick in.

[20:39] And I'm sort of editing in real time my notes.

[20:42] I'm like, well, that's not important.

Elliott Kalan

[20:43] My guess is they added that dream sequence at the beginning because it's such a long time

[20:47] before scares.

[20:48] Yeah.

[20:49] So they're like, we got to make sure people know this is not really a movie about just

[20:52] a woman trying to bond with these two stepkids.

[20:54] Yeah.

[20:55] But eventually.

[20:56] We're not making Janet Planet here, people.

[20:58] We're making Imaginary.

[20:59] Yeah.

[21:00] I think that's about a mom and a daughter, not step.

Dan McCoy

[21:02] But you understand.

[21:03] Just find some ominous old boxes of memories in the basement, including a crayon drawing of

[21:08] a door labeled Never Ever.

Elliott Kalan

[21:11] Is this before or after Alice has already said that Chauncey, she's heard Alice say never

[21:18] ever in the voice of Chauncey or something like that.

[21:21] I honestly don't know the first time that that happens.

Dan McCoy

[21:23] But that's, yes, that's a thing that also occurs.

[21:26] And speaking of Alice talking to Chauncey, Jess goes upstairs.

[21:30] She hears Alice talking to someone, assumes it must be her imaginary friend.

[21:34] This is another really funny scene.

[21:35] But it's a woman who knocks Jess down and says, there's something here.

[21:39] I have to protect my girls.

[21:40] Who is it?

[21:41] It's Max's ex-wife.

Elliott Kalan

[21:44] Bang, bang.

[21:45] Max's ex-wife came down on her head.

[21:48] Do-do-do-do-do.

Stuart Wellington

[21:49] I mean, I absolutely love the framing of this shot where she's like spying on Alice talking

[21:55] to her imaginary friend.

[21:56] And she's like, it's so cute.

[21:57] But like, she's clearly not seeing enough of the room to see that someone else is in

[22:03] there.

[22:03] Just so funny to me.

[22:05] It's like such an obvious bullshit filmmaking technique.

[22:08] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[22:10] So the ex-wife knows where they are, I guess, because Taylor was secretly texting her and

[22:16] she escaped from whatever institution she was in.

[22:19] Arkham.

[22:19] And she gets carted off while Taylor apologizes tearfully.

[22:26] And in this period, Jessica starts writing a book from Simon the Spider's point of view to make him seem less scary.

Elliott Kalan

[22:33] Is this around when the dad leaves on the tour, right?

[22:36] Yes.

[22:36] This is what I was about to say.

Dan McCoy

[22:37] Literally the next sentence.

[22:38] Meanwhile, Max goes off on tour with his band.

Elliott Kalan

[22:40] Now that my wife is back in custody and certainly can't escape again, it's time for me to leave

[22:44] and go on tour with my band.

[22:45] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[22:48] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[22:48] He's a bad dad band dad, you know.

[22:50] He is a bad dad band dad, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[22:51] We don't ever hear any of Max's music.

Elliott Kalan

[22:54] I so wish we got to hear what his band's, because from the way he looks, I have to assume it sounds

[22:59] like Imagine Dragons.

[23:00] Yes.

[23:01] But maybe it's something different.

[23:03] Maybe it's a little surprise.

Stuart Wellington

[23:04] Like a whatchamacallit, like your body's a wonderland sort of thing.

[23:07] Yeah, John Mayer, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[23:08] Like that whatchamacallit commercial.

[23:10] Yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[23:11] Whatchamacallit.

[23:12] Who's a mabob?

[23:13] Thingamawitz, whatever, yeah.

[23:14] I think I was just talking to my older son yesterday about how my brain chooses to remember

[23:19] the jingles from candy commercials and not things that I actually need, as I sang the entire

[23:23] Ring Pop song to him.

[23:25] But it would be really funny if he was like, sorry, I've got to go out on tour.

[23:30] Al wants to hit all the towns again.

[23:32] It turns out he's the bassist in Weird Al's backing band.

[23:35] I would love it.

Stuart Wellington

[23:36] I mean, that would be a cool job.

[23:38] I mean, Weird Al puts on a great show.

Elliott Kalan

[23:40] He puts on a great show, yeah.

[23:42] You just said, you see, they're trying to telepathically call to him for help, and you

[23:47] see him playing on stage, and he notices it.

[23:49] But he's in the middle of a 10-minute alternate poke medley with Weird Al.

[23:54] And Weird Al's like, head in the game, man, head in the game.

[23:57] Yeah, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[23:57] He's like, I don't know.

[23:59] I think I have to leave the tour.

[24:00] My kids are in danger because of this imaginary monster.

[24:03] And Weird Al's like, no.

Elliott Kalan

[24:05] Not allowed.

[24:06] There's 100 people who would want to play bass with the master of mirthful music, mayhem.

[24:10] And you, so you walk out that door, you're never coming back.

[24:12] And the rest of the movie is just about the trouble he has with Al, you know, that pressures

[24:17] the life on the tour.

[24:18] I think this would be great.

[24:19] Let's do it.

[24:19] Yeah.

[24:20] It's called Imaginale.

[24:23] Al imaginary.

Dan McCoy

[24:24] Al?

[24:24] Yeah.

[24:26] Okay.

[24:26] I guess.

Elliott Kalan

[24:30] That's tacit acceptance right there.

[24:33] Dan, you said yes and.

[24:34] You anded it.

[24:35] Now you own it.

Dan McCoy

[24:36] Okay.

[24:37] I guess I do.

[24:38] If anyone wants to buy it from me.

[24:40] Good touch.

[24:42] It turns out that Gloria was Jess's old babysitter, which Jess does not remember.

[24:51] And Gloria is also a writer.

Elliott Kalan

[24:53] Anybody could walk up to Jess and just be like, oh, yeah, yeah.

[24:55] I used to know when you were a kid.

[24:56] And you're just like, oh, I guess so.

[24:57] Okay.

[24:58] I don't know.

Dan McCoy

[24:59] Gloria was also a writer.

[25:00] Not as successful.

[25:00] She talks about how creative Jess was and had her own imaginary friend.

[25:06] But wait a minute.

Stuart Wellington

[25:07] Jess specifically said she never had an imaginary friend.

Elliott Kalan

[25:10] She didn't remember having an imaginary friend.

[25:11] How is this possible?

Stuart Wellington

[25:13] I wonder if that will come into play.

Dan McCoy

[25:14] And she says that Jess's dad is a fan of her books, which makes Jessica uncomfortable

[25:20] since her dad also had some sort of mental break after her mother's death.

[25:26] And there's some sort of complicated history that we will hear later, probably.

[25:30] Yes, we will.

Stuart Wellington

[25:31] But it was a complicated history that was dangerous enough that she had to be taken away from her

[25:38] father, never to be seen again, but not so dangerous that he had to leave his home.

Elliott Kalan

[25:43] Yes.

[25:44] And they only move into the house because he's moved into an assisted care facility.

[25:48] Yes.

[25:48] And it's also this – but she knows where he is.

[25:51] And it seems like she's – maybe it's just the trauma of it.

[25:53] It seems like she's never tried to find out anything about what happened or bridge the gap

[25:57] or anything like that.

Dan McCoy

[25:57] Well, speaking of bridging the gap and that assisted care facility –

[26:02] That's what we were just talking about.

[26:03] She goes to visit him.

[26:05] He doesn't seem to recognize her at first.

[26:09] She's doing her own little info dump in the form of a one-sided conversation, being like,

[26:15] how could you just change like that?

[26:17] We were happy.

[26:19] But when he finally does recognize her, he starts screaming about how she went away

[26:23] and was always talking about CB.

[26:28] CB.

[26:29] Hey, guys.

[26:29] Now, you're like me.

[26:30] You're like, oh, the fighting CB is the construction crew.

Stuart Wellington

[26:32] Yeah.

[26:33] As soon as he started saying that, I'm like, okay, guys.

[26:35] You could be a little more opaque.

[26:37] You could be a little more opaque.

[26:38] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[26:38] It's like, how am I going to – oh, so there's a bear named Chauncey.

[26:41] How am I going to decode CB?

[26:43] And it takes her for fucking everything to figure out.

Dan McCoy

[26:45] You didn't think it was about like – you know, she was like a long-haul trucker.

[26:49] No, I didn't think she became a long-haul trucker.

Elliott Kalan

[26:51] It felt like a –

[26:52] She loved that song Convoy.

[26:53] But something that John Hodgman once told me years ago is that he was told audiences like

[26:58] to be ahead of the mystery.

[26:59] It's not that audiences like to be surprised by twists.

[27:01] They like to figure it out themselves.

[27:03] And this felt like one that was designed for the audience to be like, CB, Chauncey Bear,

[27:08] of course.

[27:09] Oh, when are the heroes going to figure out the thing?

[27:10] I'm so smart that I figure it out.

Stuart Wellington

[27:12] You know.

[27:12] Yeah, Hodgman learned that when he was studying under Dick Wolf, right?

[27:17] When Dick Wolf took him under his wing.

Elliott Kalan

[27:19] Yeah, he was briefly raised by wolves.

[27:22] They called him TV Mowgli.

[27:24] Yeah, to bring him back to the Jungle Book because Dick Wolf was raising him.

[27:27] Yeah.

[27:28] It was also Dick Wolf who had first protected him from sheer con.

Dan McCoy

[27:32] But, you know, a theme in this movie is, of course, bad babysitting.

[27:37] Taylor's supposed to be babysitting Alice, but she ignores that she's being really creepy with

[27:42] Chauncey in a jar of bugs in favor of instead hanging out with a boy next door.

[27:46] I will say this.

Elliott Kalan

[27:47] If collecting a jar of bugs is creepy, I take offense.

[27:50] Then creep me out.

[27:51] Because considering my son has a room full of jars of bugs and pieces of animals, basically.

[27:55] Someone just recently gave him a mummified lizard they found in their garage.

[27:59] Well, you know, like you find animal bones out in the forest.

[28:01] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[28:01] You know, like we have a coyote skull we found in the hill across the mark.

[28:04] Yeah, yeah, you make little fetishes out of them.

[28:05] Exactly.

[28:06] Yeah.

[28:06] How else are you going to talk to Baal?

[28:08] That's what I want to know.

[28:09] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[28:09] No, there's a science way of doing something like this, but this is clearly some sort of-

Elliott Kalan

[28:13] She's clearly collecting bugs as a way of getting in with Chauncey.

[28:16] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[28:16] So you're saying Taylor brings over the boy next door and he brings along a gift and this

[28:21] time it's not a first edition of The Iliad.

[28:24] No, no.

[28:25] Not at all, no.

Dan McCoy

[28:26] He presents a bag of drugs, which Taylor does not take, but he fails to read the room and

[28:33] starts raiding the liquor cabinet as well and breaks something that-

Elliott Kalan

[28:37] Drops a bottle and they have to clean it up.

[28:38] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[28:39] He goes upstairs to get a towel, but he's distracted by a toy in Alice's room that is

[28:45] casting bear-shaped colored lights on the wall and playing-

[28:48] And he's tripping balls at this point, right?

[28:50] Well, one would think-

[28:51] Or so he thinks, so he believes.

[28:53] Yeah.

[28:54] There's jaunty but creepy music playing and then while he's peeing, he is distracted by

[29:00] Chauncey's pull string, you know, sort of like slowly, you know, being retracted in

[29:06] a way that scares him.

[29:07] And this is the part that I had to like rewind to be like, what?

[29:10] Why did he jump?

[29:11] What was the scary thing?

[29:12] Yeah.

[29:12] Like, it's just that he, like it, he follows the string up to the bear covered by a towel

[29:18] on the, on the counter.

Elliott Kalan

[29:21] So this scene-

Dan McCoy

[29:22] And he jumps and he puts in peas all over the floor.

[29:25] And I'm like, why was that scary, dude?

Elliott Kalan

[29:27] So what is, what doesn't work about this scene is he should, he shouldn't be scared unless

[29:30] he already knows that there is an evil imaginary bear character in the house.

[29:34] And that is information that has not yet been given to him.

[29:37] Yeah.

[29:37] You know.

[29:38] And this leads to-

[29:39] At very worst, this is a home, not wanting to buy an elf on the shelf type scenario.

[29:45] And instead just drafting this bear into that role.

[29:49] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[29:49] And this leads to a follow-up scene that I thought the imagery of this was more effectively

[29:55] a little scary.

[29:56] Later on, right?

[29:57] What?

[29:58] Later on or right here?

[29:59] Well, right here where he sees the pull string again.

[30:02] He chases around.

[30:03] He steps on it, which causes it to pull the teddy bear slowly towards him on the hall.

[30:08] Oh, yeah.

[30:09] I thought that was a creepy image.

[30:11] But then it's immediately followed by an unscary, like, CGI real bear that, like, leaps at him

[30:17] for a second before he, you know, falls down and disappears.

[30:20] I forgot about that.

Elliott Kalan

[30:21] I forgot about that CGI bear.

[30:22] Yeah.

[30:23] There's two bears inside of everyone.

[30:25] A stuffed bear and a CGI bear.

[30:26] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[30:28] And at this point, Jess comes home like, what the fuck?

[30:31] And we cut to a neighbor's mom being there.

[30:33] And Jess is like, I come home to your son giving my daughter Molly.

[30:37] And she's like, this isn't Molly.

[30:38] This is my allergy medicine.

[30:40] And I fucking rolled my eyes because what are we to believe that the kid thought was going

[30:45] on here?

[30:46] He just, like, found a baggie of allergy medicine in the medicine cabinet.

[30:52] I was like, this is probably Molly that I can give to the neighbor.

[30:56] Like, what was the, what was, like, this dumb fucking payoff of a joke.

[31:01] You know what?

[31:01] I buy that he's dumb.

[31:02] What was the backstory of this?

Elliott Kalan

[31:04] I buy that he's dumb.

[31:05] And my guess is that it is their way of saying, don't worry, this character was not actually

[31:09] doing drugs.

[31:10] This is a PG-13 movie.

Dan McCoy

[31:12] Oh, that makes sense.

[31:13] That makes sense.

[31:14] But also.

[31:15] Dub kids aren't like, they find pills in their home and they're like, my mom probably has

[31:20] Molly.

[31:22] You don't know what their life is like.

Elliott Kalan

[31:23] Maybe she's like, that's my allergy medicine, you idiot.

[31:25] I keep the Molly in the other drawer.

[31:27] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[31:27] I mean, it would be one thing if it's the same brand of allergy medicine and he bought

[31:32] it off a smarter dumb kid.

[31:34] Yes.

Elliott Kalan

[31:35] I mean, maybe that's the backstory.

[31:37] For some reason, the one thing I liked about this was it reminded me.

[31:39] Let's check the novelization of.

[31:41] Let's check Alan Dean Foster's version of this.

[31:43] The one thing I liked about it was that it reminded me of a moment in a state sketch that I liked.

[31:48] One of the Doug sketches where they find he has pot and it's either his dad or his principal

[31:52] is like, what's this?

[31:53] And he goes, oh, that's oregano for home ec.

[31:55] And then he goes, that's a lot of oregano, Doug.

[31:57] Should be.

[31:57] I paid 50 bucks for it.

Dan McCoy

[32:02] So Jess also finds one of her paintings ripped.

[32:09] Sorry, I got a text from my wife.

[32:11] You got too scared.

[32:12] Yeah, you got too scared.

[32:13] I get it.

Elliott Kalan

[32:13] The idea of art being destroyed was what was scary for Dan.

[32:15] I tried to dismiss it.

[32:16] As it is for me, too.

Dan McCoy

[32:17] And the phone was like, you probably want to switch over to the text.

[32:21] No, she finds one of her paintings ripped and she thinks Alice is mad at her and was

[32:26] the one who ripped it.

[32:27] And so she does this extremely long monologue to a lump under the blanket in Alice's bed

[32:32] that is clearly not Alice.

[32:34] And it goes on forever without her checking if the kid is there while she's talking to

[32:38] this.

[32:39] Some good babies.

Elliott Kalan

[32:39] Give me this heartfelt speech about what, being afraid and stuff like that.

[32:42] And when I was angry, I would break things or whatever.

[32:45] I don't remember.

Dan McCoy

[32:45] And, you know, like her dad got sick and it made her upset, but she loves these kids so

[32:50] much.

[32:51] And, but she finally, she looks out at the window.

Stuart Wellington

[32:54] And she goes on this long speech about how Tim Roth gobbled her baby up.

[32:58] And you're like, what?

Dan McCoy

[33:03] She's like, oh, and you're not really talking to me.

[33:06] You're not talking and the blanket's not moving.

[33:08] You're so mad that you're not talking.

[33:10] You're not breathing.

Elliott Kalan

[33:11] You're so mad that you're dead now.

[33:13] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[33:14] But she looks out the window.

[33:15] You're also super tiny.

[33:16] Guys, guys, we've all been there.

[33:18] We've all had a podcast guest who just will not talk and is just lying there under a blanket

[33:23] and not breathing.

[33:24] Yeah.

[33:24] It turns out.

Elliott Kalan

[33:25] And it turns out that we look outside and see the guest and it was a teddy bear under the

[33:28] blanket the whole time.

[33:29] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[33:30] Yeah.

[33:30] She sees us outside taking a fence apart for some reason.

[33:33] We know why.

[33:34] We know why.

[33:34] Well, we know why.

[33:35] We find out why later.

[33:36] At this point.

[33:37] Yeah.

[33:37] And she pulls back the blanket to see Chauncey.

[33:39] And again, she reacts as if it's this big scare moment and not like, yeah, it's a teddy

[33:45] bear in a bed where a teddy bear lives.

[33:48] The idea of a teddy bear being in a bed?

[33:50] How did it get here?

Elliott Kalan

[33:52] Dan, what possible logical explanation could this teddy bear have for being in a bed?

Dan McCoy

[33:57] But she runs downstairs and rescues Alice from intentionally slamming her hand down on a rusty

[34:02] nail from the fence because presumably Chauncey told her to.

Elliott Kalan

[34:06] Yes.

[34:07] Yeah.

[34:07] Cocktail.

[34:08] No, no.

[34:08] Chauncey has told her to.

[34:10] She has to do something to her that hurts because Chauncey has given her a scavenger hunt.

[34:13] That's why she collected those bugs.

[34:14] She had to have something that scares her.

[34:16] Yeah.

[34:16] And I will say.

Stuart Wellington

[34:17] Jess has found the scavenger hunt list, right?

Elliott Kalan

[34:20] Yes.

[34:20] Yeah.

[34:21] And I will say the girl almost slamming her hand down on a rusty nail.

[34:25] I don't.

[34:25] Maybe it's just that I'm a parent.

[34:26] I didn't like this.

[34:28] I felt like this movie had not established a scary enough nightmarish atmosphere that

[34:32] I could, that it felt like a, this was the moment where I was like, this seems harsh for

[34:35] the movie that I have been watching.

[34:37] Yeah.

[34:37] And the movie, I will say from this point on for a little bit, I did find it getting more

[34:42] kind of like realistically upsetting in some ways.

[34:46] Not necessarily scary, but like effective in making me not happy.

Dan McCoy

[34:49] Is that because the next thing that happens is a child psychiatrist is called in?

Elliott Kalan

[34:53] I think the fact.

[34:54] That part rules.

[34:56] I feel like the child psychiatrist stuff, I think it's the best stuff in the movie, to

[34:59] be honest.

Dan McCoy

[34:59] You know?

[35:00] I guess I have a hard time separating it from the movie.

[35:03] You know?

[35:04] I guess if I think about it, I could imagine a better movie having this in it.

Stuart Wellington

[35:08] I'm, I want to hear both of you explain why you feel this way, but let's continue with

[35:13] the plot.

[35:13] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[35:13] Because there's a couple of specific moments that I found very strange.

Stuart Wellington

[35:16] I found one very funny.

Elliott Kalan

[35:18] Well, I think that's the thing.

[35:19] This is the part of the movie where I'm like, I don't really know exactly what game, oh,

[35:22] I know the game this movie is playing.

[35:23] There's an evil imaginary friend.

[35:25] But I don't know exactly what this movie is trying to do compared to the earlier part

[35:28] of the movie.

[35:29] And then at the end, I was like, now I really don't know what this movie is attempting to

[35:32] do.

Dan McCoy

[35:32] So Dr. Soto comes in to talk to Alice and she asks Alice about the scavenger hunt that

[35:38] led her to almost hurt herself.

[35:40] And in the process of this, she encourages Alice to tell Chauncey how he made her feel.

[35:46] And the doctor sees that.

Elliott Kalan

[35:47] And she's filming this whole thing.

[35:48] Yeah.

[35:49] She's filming it like any good therapist.

[35:50] She wants to have videotaped so that she can show it to her, the parents of other patients.

[35:55] Well, yeah, we haven't gotten there yet.

Dan McCoy

[35:57] The act of her filming it is not weird at this point, but.

[36:01] I think it's weird.

[36:02] That's done.

[36:03] That is done.

Elliott Kalan

[36:04] I mean, there are therapists that record their sessions, you know.

[36:07] None of mine have that I know of.

Dan McCoy

[36:09] In ways that this therapist is not going to do later on.

Elliott Kalan

[36:14] Well, no, she cuts together a compilation called Weird Wacky Kids that she sells on TV

[36:19] later.

Dan McCoy

[36:19] I think in particular, if it's a child therapy session, there are reasons why this might be

[36:24] done.

[36:25] Yeah, because it's extra scary.

Elliott Kalan

[36:28] Yeah, because it might end up on, kids say the most traumatic things.

[36:31] Well, you want, you, you.

[36:33] No, no, I know.

[36:34] You may need it for different types of reasons.

Dan McCoy

[36:36] Yeah.

[36:37] So she encourages Alice to tell Chauncey how he made her feel.

[36:40] And the doctor sees Alice doing Chauncey's voice and talking back and forth to herself.

Elliott Kalan

[36:45] Alice has her back to the doctor during this conversation.

Dan McCoy

[36:47] Chauncey is saying things like, fake mommy will leave.

[36:50] Fake mommy is mean.

[36:52] Only Chauncey love Alice.

Stuart Wellington

[36:54] And I do love that.

[36:55] I do love that the psychologist or psychiatrist, whichever one, that she keeps, she's like,

[36:59] still like, she's like, this ain't that weird.

[37:02] I'm just going to keep asking these like, like in-depth probing questions, which I feel

[37:07] like this kid, even if it wasn't arguing with its imaginary friend, would have trouble

[37:12] handling.

[37:12] Yes.

[37:13] She doesn't seem like.

[37:14] Complex emotional questions like that.

Elliott Kalan

[37:16] I don't think she's really approaching the child at the child's level.

[37:18] But also it feels like a certain point she's like, I'm going to stir up shit between this

[37:21] kid and her imaginary friend.

[37:22] Like, I'm just going to see what the drama is that erupts here.

Dan McCoy

[37:24] But then we get the great line where the doctor asks Jess, has Alice taken up any new hobbies

[37:31] lately?

[37:32] Ventriloquism?

[37:33] That is, it is very funny that line.

[37:35] And I don't think that's where I would start if I was the doctor.

Elliott Kalan

[37:39] Especially since, especially since as she then reveals, she has long, she has dealt with

[37:43] other patients where kids have evil imaginary friends.

[37:46] Yes.

Dan McCoy

[37:46] Well, let's get to that because we teased it.

[37:49] She tells Jess that Alice brought up a place called the Never Ever, which reminded her of

[37:54] an old patient.

[37:54] And then she fucking shows Jess video of the kids' session.

[37:58] She shouldn't do that.

[37:59] And that is a huge violation.

[38:01] That's not all right.

[38:02] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[38:02] And I like that she has that shit just like queued up.

[38:05] Because she shows it to people at park.

Elliott Kalan

[38:06] She sees people just like, hey, you seen this?

[38:08] This is crazy.

[38:09] Let me show you this clip.

[38:10] This is bonkers.

[38:11] Look at this maniac.

[38:12] Look at this little weirdo.

[38:13] Aren't you supposed to have like not to not do this?

[38:16] Yeah.

[38:16] Everybody does it.

[38:17] Everybody does it.

[38:17] Come on.

[38:18] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[38:18] It's a 101 great therapy fail.

[38:21] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[38:21] America's funniest therapy.

[38:22] It's like we all share these clips.

[38:23] It's like how doctors always share x-rays of stuff up people's butts.

[38:26] Like, you know, you know they're doing it.

[38:27] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[38:28] But the point is that kid disappeared right after talking about the Never Ever.

Elliott Kalan

[38:32] And he also had cut his thumb off, right?

Dan McCoy

[38:34] Oh, I missed that part.

Elliott Kalan

[38:35] This is a kid who was missing a thumb.

[38:37] And it turns out that his imaginary friend told him to hurt himself and then he disappeared.

[38:45] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[38:46] It wasn't 100%.

Elliott Kalan

[38:47] Maybe she's like, it's okay for me to show you this session.

[38:48] This kid disappeared.

[38:49] He's not going to get mad about it.

Stuart Wellington

[38:50] It wasn't 100% clear what the kid had done to hurt himself.

[38:54] But then later on, they mentioned that he cut his thumb.

[38:56] Yes.

[38:56] Yeah.

[38:57] Visually, it was not clear.

Dan McCoy

[38:58] This reminds Jess of that crayon drawing.

[39:01] You don't see him go hitchhiking, but he can't do it because he's, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[39:03] Yeah.

[39:04] Yeah.

[39:05] He's trying to talk about a movie he really liked.

[39:07] And he's like, no, I liked it more than one thumb.

[39:09] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[39:10] That was the, they're like, that kid disappeared.

[39:13] And we know that he didn't go hitchhiking because he couldn't.

[39:15] He couldn't, yeah.

[39:16] There's no way.

Elliott Kalan

[39:17] He was scheduled to be on Roper at the Movies, but he never showed up.

Dan McCoy

[39:22] Yeah, yeah.

[39:23] He was going to play in the video game championships, but no.

[39:27] And never happened.

[39:28] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[39:29] This reminds.

[39:30] He was sitting in a corner with a plum pudding, but he had nothing to stick in it.

Dan McCoy

[39:35] This is horrible.

[39:36] We're only making these jokes because, of course, this is a made up.

[39:38] This is not a real.

Elliott Kalan

[39:39] We would never make these jokes about a real person with a thumb, only a fictional character

[39:43] in a stupid movie.

[39:44] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[39:45] This reminds Jess of her crayon drawing of the never ever.

[39:48] And Jess is like, I got to destroy that bear.

[39:50] And the doctor says, what bear?

Stuart Wellington

[39:52] That shit was amazing.

[39:55] Like, that reveals.

[39:57] I'm like, come on, Mufi.

[39:58] You didn't earn this.

[39:59] Yeah.

[39:59] No.

Elliott Kalan

[40:00] Only Alice and Jess can see Chauncey.

[40:02] I admire the audacity of it.

[40:03] I admire the audacity of it because it does not make sense with anything we've seen previously

[40:06] in the film.

[40:07] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[40:07] She starts freaking out.

[40:09] And I know if I was the doctor.

Elliott Kalan

[40:10] Well, this is when the doctor shows her the video, right?

Dan McCoy

[40:13] No, no.

[40:14] That was before.

Elliott Kalan

[40:14] No, no.

[40:15] It shows the video of the session and there's no bear.

Stuart Wellington

[40:17] Oh, of the session.

[40:17] Well, yeah.

[40:18] Yeah.

[40:18] And there's the moment where like Taylor walks in and she's like, uh, you've seen the

[40:22] bear, right?

[40:23] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[40:24] She's like, yeah, it's not that funny, but it keeps winning a best original comedy.

[40:27] I don't understand.

[40:27] Oh, not this year it didn't.

[40:29] No, that's true.

[40:29] It lost this year.

[40:30] But yeah.

[40:30] The, uh, yeah.

[40:31] She's like, you've seen the bear, right?

[40:32] She's like, what bear are you talking about?

[40:33] There's no bear.

[40:35] So, um, you know.

[40:37] It is one of the funnier fight club style reveals that, oh my God, all those times we

[40:43] thought we saw a bear there, there was no bear there.

[40:45] Uh-huh.

Stuart Wellington

[40:46] Instead of carrying a bear, she was just holding her arm at a weird angle.

[40:49] Yeah.

[40:50] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[40:51] Um, so, uh, Jess knows something is going on with that creepy never ever door.

[40:57] She looks for Alice, but can't find Alice because she's busy doing some weird ritual.

[41:03] And, uh, Taylor and Jess can't find her, but there's blood on the tiny basement door.

[41:07] Ah!

[41:08] And, uh, there's an argument between Taylor and Jess where Taylor says, people don't just

[41:13] disappear.

[41:13] And that reminds Jess of what her dad said.

[41:16] She thinks, oh, Chauncey was also her childhood friend.

[41:20] And Taylor's like-

Elliott Kalan

[41:21] She's found all these drawings of, of Chauncey Bear that she did as a kid.

Dan McCoy

[41:24] Yeah.

[41:25] And, and Taylor's like, that's nuts.

[41:26] Which is, uh, is reasonable, but Taylor's really mean about it because she's a teen.

[41:31] Again, she's a teenager, so she's mean.

Elliott Kalan

[41:33] I mean, it is on the face of it, if you don't know you're in a horror movie, then to be told,

[41:37] oh, my stepdaughter has my imaginary friend and he's come back for revenge.

[41:41] Yeah.

[41:41] In the form of a bear that you can't see.

[41:43] Your first reaction would be, I don't believe that.

[41:46] Yes.

[41:46] Unless you know you're in a horror movie, in which case you'd say that is reasonable.

[41:49] It seems like exactly the situation.

[41:51] Let's figure out the rules here.

[41:53] The whole time.

[41:53] Yeah.

[41:56] So, I thought it was the, I thought it was the dead school janitor who was coming to her in her dreams to try to kill her.

[42:01] But no, it turns out it's this bear.

Stuart Wellington

[42:02] Yeah.

[42:03] In another moment of good parenting slash babysitting, uh, after looking around for their missing, uh, for, for Alice, who's missing, she then just lets Taylor wander the streets looking for her by herself.

[42:16] Yeah.

[42:16] A girl who they've expressly pointed out is a minor.

Dan McCoy

[42:21] Uh, well, Taylor's out, uh, wandering the streets at night.

[42:25] As you say, she bumps into Gloria, the old neighbor, who's like, it's time for some more exposition.

[42:30] And, uh.

Elliott Kalan

[42:30] You've earned, you've unlocked this next level of knowledge.

Dan McCoy

[42:33] Yeah.

[42:34] And she tells Taylor that, uh, when, when, uh, sorry, I, my notes are bad here.

[42:42] Uh, when, when Jess was a kid, she said she was going to a secret place just for her and her imaginary friend.

[42:47] And she opened that secret door and disappeared.

Elliott Kalan

[42:50] Well, and this is what, and, uh, and that she talks a lot about like how when kids have imaginary friends, right?

[42:56] They're, they're really spirits from another world.

[42:58] Yeah, they're spirits.

Dan McCoy

[42:58] Some are good and some are bad.

[43:00] And some get angry when the kids grow up and their connection is severed, uh, because they hunger for the child's power of imagination.

Stuart Wellington

[43:08] Yeah.

[43:09] And Gloria's house has been turned into this like cool library of the arcane filled with like folklore.

[43:16] And like, it has a really kind of interesting open plan design that I thought was pretty cool.

Dan McCoy

[43:21] Yeah.

[43:22] Uh, yeah.

[43:23] Giles walks out.

[43:24] Let me explain this to you.

[43:26] Kind of.

Elliott Kalan

[43:27] Um.

[43:27] I mean, to be honest, I like, this is my favorite character in the movie.

[43:30] Like I said, she's full of, she's this, she's this weird old lady who's like, yeah, you know what?

[43:34] Ever since you were, you disappeared when I was babysitting you, I've just devoted myself to the esoteric and arcane.

[43:39] I know exactly what's happening.

[43:41] And as we find out later, she's super into it.

[43:43] You know?

Dan McCoy

[43:44] She's like, since I lost you, I found a world so new.

[43:48] And that world is the arcane and the macabre.

[43:51] Uh, anyway, meanwhile, Jess has been busy repainting all of the art she drew on her walls.

[43:57] As a child, she's trying to reconnect to the old memories.

[44:01] Yeah.

[44:01] And she.

Stuart Wellington

[44:01] It's kind of a naive style.

[44:04] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[44:05] Yeah.

[44:05] Outsider art.

[44:06] Yeah.

[44:06] Uh, she's joined by, uh, Gloria and Taylor who, and Taylor's now totes on board with the evil spirit stuff.

[44:12] Uh, and Jess is like, I remember most of what happened to me as a kid.

[44:16] The thing my dad kept saying, CB, that stands for Chauncey Bear.

[44:21] And the audience goes, oh.

[44:24] Chauncey T.

[44:24] Yeah.

[44:26] Uh, and the gang has to finish CB's scavenger hunt so they can open the door.

[44:31] And, you know, that scavenger hunt, of course, is the usual.

[44:34] Something old, something new, something borrowed, something that hurts.

[44:37] Yeah.

[44:38] And, uh, the ritual doesn't work the first time.

[44:41] So Jess has to be really mean to Taylor to make it actually work, calling her selfish like her mother.

[44:47] But it, it kind of brings them closer together because Taylor realizes that it hurt Jess to be so cruel to her.

Elliott Kalan

[44:53] Yeah.

[44:53] That it wasn't that it hurt her that finished the ritual.

[44:55] It was that it hurt Jess to say these things.

[44:57] Yeah.

[44:57] They were kind of, I mean, there's a little bit of truth to them, to be honest, you know.

[45:00] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[45:01] If there wasn't a little bit of truth, it wouldn't hurt, you know.

Elliott Kalan

[45:03] Yeah.

[45:03] And I think that Taylor's also like, when you're at a roast and it's like people are mean to you, but they're mean to you in a really specific way that shows they really know you.

[45:09] Like that's true.

[45:10] You must really have been paying attention to be so mean.

[45:12] You see me.

Stuart Wellington

[45:13] You must see me, Tom Brady, and know exactly the man I am.

[45:18] Thank you, Jeff Ross.

Elliott Kalan

[45:20] For penetrating this exterior and getting to the molten vulnerable core beneath.

Dan McCoy

[45:25] So they go through the door into an MC.

Stuart Wellington

[45:27] Here I, Tom Brady, stand before you, naked and exposed to you, Jeff Ross.

Dan McCoy

[45:33] Don't be to the quick, will you?

[45:36] They go through the door into this MC Escher nightmare world.

[45:39] I'm going to say this.

Elliott Kalan

[45:40] I would like to put a ban on using black and white checkered floor tiles in paranormal worlds.

[45:47] They do that, and I'm like, that is not a paranormal world thing.

[45:50] That is a Tim Burton thing.

[45:52] Like that's Tim Burton's thing.

Dan McCoy

[45:53] So that's the Beetlejuice you're talking about.

[45:55] Yeah, that's the Beetlejuice that's in there.

[45:57] Campari.

[46:01] And once we're in the world, Gloria starts cackling about it.

[46:04] Everyone said that her books were the nonsensical ramblings of an old woman, but she was right.

[46:10] And the others are like, oh great, weirdo.

[46:11] And she's like, now we're in this world.

[46:12] We can imagine anything.

Elliott Kalan

[46:13] It's full of imagination.

[46:13] It's wonderful.

[46:15] But the movie is done with her.

Dan McCoy

[46:16] So, of course, she is mauled by a bear.

[46:18] Well, don't get ahead of my –

Elliott Kalan

[46:21] I was just so excited about it because it was like, oh, suddenly I'm watching The Winter's Tale.

Dan McCoy

[46:25] Because what happens before that is Jess sees a vision of her dad fighting off the evil spirit in its tentacle spidery form to save her.

[46:34] And she knows that that's what drove him mad.

[46:37] He gave up his sanity to save her from the never ever.

[46:39] And that's the point at which Gloria has unpropped to the door and gives her villain monologue where she says, the entity told me to bring you here.

[46:48] We'll leave our pain behind.

[46:49] We'll be happy here forever.

[46:51] And, you know, it's so big that it telegraphs that, of course, she's about to die.

[46:56] Yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[46:57] Where does that character go from there?

[46:58] She either becomes the villain of the movie or she dies.

[47:00] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[47:00] Yeah.

[47:01] Well, but also it's like so clearly like a setup of a joke.

S4

[47:03] It's like, oh, we'll live forever.

Elliott Kalan

[47:05] Yeah, this is their deep blue sea moment.

[47:08] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[47:09] And some furry paw pulls her into like a Scooby-Doo hallway door and a blood puddle comes out.

Elliott Kalan

[47:16] This is so goofy, this part.

[47:18] This is where the movie, and it is, I think officially at this part that the movie stops being a horror movie and becomes kind of like, yeah.

[47:26] We'll live forever.

[47:29] This is when the movie officially stops trying to be a horror movie and just becomes kind of like, I don't know, like an episode of Are You Afraid of the Dark or something like that.

[47:37] Yeah.

[47:37] You know.

[47:39] Because it takes a long time for this thing to kill her.

[47:42] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[47:43] The others do not try to save her at any moment.

[47:47] My first thought was, hey, guys, free house, right?

[47:52] I guess.

[47:53] She's gone.

Stuart Wellington

[47:54] Nobody's going to need her house anymore.

[47:55] Yeah, that's true.

[47:55] Or that library, that cool occult library.

[47:58] The occult books.

[47:59] And how are they going to explain this to the police?

[48:02] I mean, I don't think they have to.

[48:03] There's nothing connecting them to her.

[48:04] I think it'll just be weird old lady disappears.

[48:08] You don't think their ring camera caught them walking into the house?

[48:11] Something tells me that she doesn't have a ring camera.

[48:13] Maybe it's corpus.

Dan McCoy

[48:14] There's no body.

[48:15] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[48:17] Anyway.

[48:17] We saw you go into the house and leave with her on the camera, and then she disappeared.

[48:23] It's like, yeah, well, we all went out to get Frogert, and then, you know, she left.

[48:29] We all went out to get Frozone from The Incredibles.

[48:31] We all went out to get frozen calzones.

[48:33] And then she just walked away.

[48:36] I don't know, man.

Dan McCoy

[48:36] I'm Frozone for her.

[48:37] Frozone's frozen calzones.

Elliott Kalan

[48:40] Yeah, Frocal.

[48:41] Because you guys are in Frocal, California.

[48:43] That's right.

[48:44] Yeah, Frocal, the chilly part of California.

Dan McCoy

[48:48] Ruled by the ice queen.

[48:53] So Jess and Taylor get briefly separated.

[48:56] Taylor finds a zombie-looking Alice who's like, I've been here too long.

[49:01] Long job, daddy.

Elliott Kalan

[49:02] Yeah, that's what I was thinking, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[49:03] Yeah.

[49:04] And there's the giant bear Chauncey shows up and zombie Alice attacks.

[49:09] Wait, wait, wait.

Elliott Kalan

[49:09] You got to tell me about the giant bear Chauncey.

[49:11] We got to talk about it.

[49:12] Okay.

[49:12] Is this when it's the person in a costume, Chauncey?

[49:16] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[49:16] Yeah, I think so.

Elliott Kalan

[49:17] But is this when it's the scary costume or when it's just a regular bear?

Dan McCoy

[49:20] This looks more like a regular bear.

[49:22] Later on, it turns into kind of-

Elliott Kalan

[49:24] We get a scary costume, which is again a moment where it was like, oh, I feel like I'm watching an episode of the Storyteller.

[49:28] Like, this is not a horror movie for adults.

Dan McCoy

[49:30] I kind of love how goofy that one looks.

[49:31] It looks like halfway between a bear and the monster that at the end of Big Trouble in Little China is on the Pork Chop Express.

Stuart Wellington

[49:39] Yes.

Dan McCoy

[49:39] Or kind of, it also, you know, like the crate from Creepshow, a little bit of that in there.

[49:45] Yeah, yeah.

[49:46] Love that kind of thing.

Elliott Kalan

[49:48] And again, if that's the movie I was watching, I'd be like on board 100%.

[49:51] But it was like, not until that character shows up am I like, oh, that's the kind of movie you're making.

Stuart Wellington

[49:55] Yeah, if I was watching fucking Creepshow, I'd be like, hell yeah.

[49:59] Yay.

[50:00] Give me another serving.

Elliott Kalan

[50:02] But you can't ask me to be like, oh, I'm really worried this kid is in danger and then suddenly show me that.

[50:07] You know, it's going to-

Dan McCoy

[50:07] But Taylor saved, just yanks her from the room and they find a room that has the number of their old apartment.

[50:16] And they take a page from the Barenaked Ladies and break into their old apartment.

Stuart Wellington

[50:21] And they find-

[50:22] Have some fucking Kraft dinner or whatever they eat.

Dan McCoy

[50:24] They find Real Alice.

[50:27] She's living-

[50:27] And it has been one week since they looked at their dad, I guess.

[50:33] Real Alice is living like a tea party queen.

[50:36] And there's also some evil feature there.

[50:39] As if she had a million dollars.

Elliott Kalan

[50:40] Do we know any other Barenaked Ladies songs?

[50:42] No other bands talking about-

[50:43] Yeah, I don't know any other Barenaked Ladies.

[50:44] I don't even know the Barenaked Ladies song that Dan started with.

[50:47] I only know the one week and the If I Had a Million Dollars, yeah.

[50:50] Yeah.

[50:50] And I guess the Big Bang Theory song is them, right?

[50:53] Is it?

[50:53] I mean, what?

[50:53] It's not, but it sounds like them.

Dan McCoy

[50:55] Who knows?

[50:56] No way to know.

[50:57] Let's write in and tell Elliot whether his favorite show, The Big Bang Theory, has the theme by the Barenaked Ladies.

[51:01] Let's just write in to Who Gives a Shit?

[51:03] Care of the Flop House.

[51:04] Send Elliot a list of Barenaked Ladies songs.

[51:07] Don't do that, please.

[51:09] Canadians, help us.

[51:11] So, yeah, also at this tea party room where Alice is living like a queen, there's an evil version of Alice's birth mom.

Stuart Wellington

[51:21] I mean, they have painted her pretty evilly before this moment.

Dan McCoy

[51:24] Yeah, but this is clearly like some fake version.

Elliott Kalan

[51:25] But this is like a supernatural version of it, especially when she gets her Coraline eyes, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[51:30] And Jess starts tearing up the room to draw a new blue door on the wall because imagination has power here, and that's how they're going to get out.

[51:38] They're going to make their own blue door.

Elliott Kalan

[51:40] Like now it turns into Harold and the Purple Crayon.

[51:42] At this point, I was like, what is this movie?

[51:44] Like what is it trying to do?

[51:45] You know.

Dan McCoy

[51:46] The mom turns into the giant tooth bear and Jess stays back to fight.

[51:51] That's when the tooth bear shows up.

[51:52] That's right.

[51:52] Fight Chauncey off.

[51:54] She starts sinking into a pile of blue junk on the floor like quicksand and falls back into the Scooby-Doo like hall of doors.

[52:03] Yeah.

[52:04] And Chauncey stalks her.

[52:07] She stabbed him with some scissors earlier.

[52:10] So he's a little injured.

[52:11] She tries to pry the original door open just as Taylor opens it from the outside and traps Chauncey inside.

[52:18] Yay.

[52:18] Nightmare's over.

[52:19] The movie's over, right?

[52:20] Well, we cut to Jess reading her new book to her dad in the assisted living home.

[52:27] And Max and Alice are there and Taylor gazing on lovingly.

[52:31] And she tells her dad she knows what he did for her and she's sorry.

[52:34] And Taylor and Alice thank Jess.

Elliott Kalan

[52:36] They're all finally one family, right?

Dan McCoy

[52:38] It's also loving that you're like, oh, no, I know where this is going.

[52:42] When's the other shoe going to drop?

[52:43] Sure enough, Jess realizes she's still trapped in the dream world.

[52:47] This has all just, you know, been constructed to keep her happy.

Stuart Wellington

[52:51] Like at the end of Thriller when Michael Jackson has like werewolf cat eyes.

[52:57] No, no, no.

[52:58] Everybody's got cool spider eyes.

[53:01] They've got like these bug eyes.

Dan McCoy

[53:03] They're pretty funny looking.

[53:04] They look a little silly, yeah.

[53:07] Evil like Simpsons eyes on all these people.

Elliott Kalan

[53:10] They end up with the same eyes that Feathers McGraw has in the Walsh and Gromit movies that he's in.

Dan McCoy

[53:16] Yeah, everyone turns evil and they're like, you said you'd never leave him.

[53:20] Do you think he'd let you go again?

[53:23] And Jess realizes Alice was just the bait so that Chauncey could bring his favorite child back to live with him.

Stuart Wellington

[53:32] As powerful as a child's imagination is, Jess's imagination is like.

[53:36] Jess is like.

[53:36] Oh, for sure.

[53:37] I mean, she's a professional artist.

Elliott Kalan

[53:38] Yeah, she's just so full of imagination.

[53:40] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[53:40] That spider thing?

[53:42] The millipede?

[53:43] Man.

Elliott Kalan

[53:44] Who could think of that stuff?

[53:45] I mean, the fact that she's done a series of books with the same two characters over and over again.

[53:49] I mean, her imagination is bursting with ideas.

[53:51] She's Jack Kirby over here.

[53:53] Come on.

Dan McCoy

[53:54] So, Jess agrees to stay there to keep her kids safe.

[53:58] But no, Taylor shows up and hits the monster saying, forever's over, asshole.

Elliott Kalan

[54:04] This is one of the most I was like, so what?

[54:06] Like, you know what?

[54:07] I don't care that much.

[54:08] But like, how did she get in?

[54:09] How did she know?

[54:10] What did she do?

[54:10] And the idea that like, well, once you're in the dream world, if you could just hit the bad guy with like a hockey stick or something and it's fine.

Dan McCoy

[54:15] You know, she did the ritual over again.

[54:18] She like, she was really mean to Alice.

[54:19] And then what?

[54:20] She called Alice real bad.

Elliott Kalan

[54:23] This wouldn't have happened if you were better with your stupid imaginary friend, you idiot.

[54:26] And then what?

[54:27] She just asked for directions when she was in the dream world?

Dan McCoy

[54:29] Yeah.

[54:29] I guess so.

[54:31] So, they escape after all.

[54:33] They try and follow the Rolling Stones advice re-doors and paint it black.

[54:37] But the monster comes out.

Elliott Kalan

[54:39] That's what that song was about.

[54:40] There's so much British invasion in this episode.

Dan McCoy

[54:42] Yeah.

[54:43] The monster pushes out and starts to crazy fly Jess with its eyes.

[54:48] And it's like all spider now, right?

[54:49] Oh, no, no.

Elliott Kalan

[54:50] This is, it stopped being a spider and now it's got kind of like a weird television face, right?

[54:54] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[54:54] Yeah, he's got a weird television face.

[54:55] And he's like projecting like flashing lights from its eyes that I guess dazzles people.

[55:00] There's a new ability.

[55:01] I'm shocked that they've just added new abilities at this point in the game.

Dan McCoy

[55:05] Well, we talked briefly to her dad, but not in this detail.

Elliott Kalan

[55:09] No, but this is the kind of thing you see in 70s Marvel comics where from issue to issue the rules change drastically.

[55:14] Yeah.

[55:14] Because there's a different writer and artist on it where they just don't care or they don't remember what happened in the previous issue.

[55:19] Rarely do you see this happen in a movie where they can just read from the same script.

[55:23] You know, that a monster just suddenly manifests an entirely new face and power with no explanation at the end.

[55:28] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[55:29] So.

Elliott Kalan

[55:30] Not that I might, again, if the whole movie was like this, I'd be like, great.

[55:32] I love this phantasmagoric, you know, surreal nonsensicalness.

Dan McCoy

[55:36] It looks like all is lost.

[55:37] Taylor can't like break.

[55:38] It doesn't really look like all is lost.

Elliott Kalan

[55:39] It's just Robert Redford on a boat.

Dan McCoy

[55:41] Okay.

[55:41] Yeah, that's true.

[55:42] This is a different movie.

[55:43] R.I.P.

[55:44] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[55:45] Robert Redford is perished.

[55:46] Yeah.

[55:47] That's what R.I.P.

[55:47] He stands for.

Dan McCoy

[55:49] Jeez Louise.

Elliott Kalan

[55:51] By the time this comes out, that'll have been a couple weeks ago.

Dan McCoy

[55:53] Yeah.

[55:53] Everyone will be desensitized.

[55:55] Yeah.

[55:57] Alice sees everything happening and she springs into action.

[56:01] She says, you were never my friend, never, ever.

[56:04] And she burns the monster and the whole house.

[56:06] Whoa.

[56:07] Which is going to be a hard thing to explain to Max.

[56:08] Alice gets her groove back.

Elliott Kalan

[56:09] I mean, now that the house has been burned down, I guess they are a little bit, it is easier

[56:13] to believe they're complicit in the disappearance of the neighbor.

Dan McCoy

[56:17] Fade to black.

[56:18] But somehow the movie is still not over.

[56:21] There's a poltergeist ripoff ending where they go to a hotel and they see a kid with a

[56:25] stuffed bear and they're like, you want to go to a different hotel?

[56:28] As the kid insists that the bear is not imaginary.

[56:31] Yeah.

[56:32] The end.

[56:33] And music plays that also sound suspiciously like kind of a music box version of the poltergeist

[56:37] music.

[56:38] And that's imaginary.

[56:41] That's the tale of Chauncey the bear.

Elliott Kalan

[56:43] Oh, what a story.

[56:45] Tale as old as time.

Dan McCoy

[56:46] In that we've seen it more.

[56:47] Last year.

Stuart Wellington

[56:48] I think this movie should have been called CB instead of imaginary.

[56:52] Yeah.

[56:53] Could be.

Dan McCoy

[56:53] Could be.

[56:54] CB.

[56:55] Could be.

[56:55] It should be called CB.

Elliott Kalan

[56:56] Again, there is a movie called The Fighting Seabees, but it's spelled differently.

[56:59] And also, I don't think they're going to get mixed up.

[57:01] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[57:01] And sometimes movies have similar names.

[57:04] Name two.

[57:07] Wait a minute.

[57:07] There's, I know this one.

[57:11] There's.

[57:12] Because you don't seem to be saying any.

[57:13] There's, wait, there's Fast.

[57:15] There's The Fast and the Furious and Fast and Furious.

Elliott Kalan

[57:17] No, that's, those are two in the same series.

[57:20] That doesn't.

[57:20] Scream and Scream.

[57:21] No, again, those are the same series.

Stuart Wellington

[57:23] Okay.

[57:24] There's, wait a minute.

[57:25] There's Scary Movie and Scree.

Elliott Kalan

[57:29] No, again, one is a parody of the other.

Dan McCoy

[57:31] There's Mission to Mars and Police Academy, Mission to Moscow.

[57:34] Okay, you got it.

[57:34] Okay, there.

[57:35] That's very similar.

[57:36] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[57:37] It's only the framing of it being a Police Academy adventure and also the different destination

[57:41] that differentiates those two movies.

[57:43] There's The Martian and Mars Attacks.

[57:47] Again, I don't know if those are that similar.

[57:49] I mean, they're both involving Mars.

[57:50] Sure, yeah.

[57:51] Uh-huh.

[57:53] There's Casablanca and Casablanca 2, the new batch.

[57:57] Casablanca and Castle Freak.

[57:58] Yep, okay, very similar.

Dan McCoy

[58:00] There's Red and The Reader.

Elliott Kalan

[58:03] I mean, there is a movie called Red and a movie called Red, and they're very different.

[58:07] Yes.

[58:07] There's that, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[58:08] And there's a movie called Drop Dead Red.

[58:12] And a movie called Drop Dead Red.

[58:16] Let's do what we do.

Elliott Kalan

[58:19] I feel like this has been our number one episode of just saying dumb movie things.

[58:23] Yeah, I think so.

[58:24] I think so, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[58:25] I guess there are two movies called Clifford.

Elliott Kalan

[58:27] So, yeah, you know what?

[58:28] It could have the same time.

[58:29] See?

Dan McCoy

[58:29] Yeah.

[58:30] Final judgments.

[58:31] Is this a good, bad movie, a bad, bad movie, or a movie we kind of like?

[58:35] I got to say, this one was really harmed for me by having to take notes on it.

Elliott Kalan

[58:42] I mean, rarely is a movie more enjoyable when you have to take notes on it, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[58:45] I feel like if I didn't, there would be like, it might sneak up on a good, bad, because there's

[58:51] some like goofy stuff in there.

[58:53] I like that Vintuoloquist line.

[58:55] I like how silly it gets to the end.

[58:57] But I think overall, I'm still going to go with bad, bad.

[59:01] What do you guys think?

Stuart Wellington

[59:03] Stuart, what do you think?

[59:03] Yeah, I'm with you.

[59:04] I think there is some genuinely like nonsensical choices and very silly things, but it is, I

[59:14] think it's a bad, bad movie.

Elliott Kalan

[59:15] I'm going to say bad, bad.

[59:16] Also, it's like, if you could watch it starting from the middle, but I feel like you're not

[59:22] going to get how goofy it is at the end if you haven't seen the beginning where it's

[59:26] not goofy at all.

[59:27] So, but I think it's not worth sitting through that to get to the goofy stuff, you know?

Stuart Wellington

[59:32] I liked it more than the evil pool movie we watched last year.

[59:37] Night Swim, was that it?

[59:37] Yeah, I liked it more than Night Swim.

[59:39] Was that what it was called?

[59:40] Or am I forgetting?

[59:40] Yeah, where Wyatt Russell is like Jack Nicholson.

Elliott Kalan

[59:45] This pool water is making me so strong.

[59:48] Yeah.

[59:48] I did like it more than Night Swim.

[59:50] I felt like Night Swim was a funnier premise, but they didn't know what to do with it.

[59:54] Whereas this is not that funny a premise, but by the end, they've certainly found some

[59:57] things to do with it, you know, that I did not expect.

[59:59] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:02] Now everybody knows that the Greatest Generation has always been Max Fund's go-to podcast for

[1:00:11] old Star Trek recaps.

[1:00:12] But what my theory presupposes is, what if it isn't?

[1:00:16] In a shocking turn of events, Greatest Trek, the comedy podcast covering new Trek, has gone

S4

[1:00:22] through a temporal wormhole back to the very beginning.

[1:00:25] Because we are now reviewing Star Trek the Original Series.

[1:00:29] That means when you subscribe now, you'll get episode-by-episode recaps of all the 1960s-style

[1:00:35] action and intrigue, along with all the jokes and fun that make Greatest Gen and Greatest

[1:00:39] Trek the number one Star Trek podcast out there.

[1:00:42] Subscribe now to Greatest Trek on MaximumFun.org.

Jesse Thorn

[1:00:48] Hey gang, it's Jesse Thorne, host of Bullseye with Jesse Thorne.

[1:00:52] We are ringing in 25 years of Bullseye this fall.

[1:00:56] That's right, listener, 25 years.

[1:00:59] I started the show in my dorm room at UC Santa Cruz.

[1:01:02] What does that mean for you?

[1:01:03] Well, we'll have a whole month of special shows, new and old, for one thing.

[1:01:07] We are putting on live shows in Los Angeles, New York, and Santa Cruz.

[1:01:12] Got guests like Adam Scott, Roy Wood Jr., then Rebecca Sugar, just to name a few.

[1:01:16] And on October 9th, I will interview 25 people in a row.

[1:01:20] You can watch that live and streaming on our YouTube channel.

[1:01:24] I hope you'll plan on celebrating with us.

[1:01:27] That's MaximumFun.org slash events.

[1:01:30] Thanks.

Dan McCoy

[1:01:32] Hey, the Flophouse is brought to you by the good people, good listeners like you, who have become members over at MaximumFun.org and help us keep this thing going.

[1:01:48] But it's also brought to you in this episode by Squarespace.

[1:01:53] Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer services and get paid online all in one place.

[1:02:00] You can use their professional on-brand invoices and online payments.

[1:02:06] And if you want to streamline your workflow, and who doesn't these days?

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[1:02:40] So, head to squarespace.com slash flop for a free trial.

[1:02:44] And when you are ready to launch, use offer code FLOP, that is F-L-O-P, to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:54] You know, Dan, the Flophouse is brought to you by listeners like you and also by Squarespace.

[1:02:59] And the Flophouse is also brought to you by the Flophouse.

[1:03:01] And the Flophouse is going to be bringing the Flophouse to Chicago.

[1:03:05] That's right.

[1:03:06] The Flophouse is going to Chicago.

[1:03:08] They can't keep us out.

[1:03:10] No matter what the president says, we're still going to Chicago.

[1:03:13] We still want to be there.

[1:03:14] So, we're going to be there Sunday, November 16th.

[1:03:16] Now, you may go on the website and be like, but that show's sold out.

[1:03:19] Uh-uh, uh-uh, uh-uh.

[1:03:21] The early show is sold out.

[1:03:22] And that's why we added a late show.

[1:03:24] You know what?

[1:03:24] That show's going to be different than the early show because we're talking about two different Jim Belushi movies.

[1:03:29] You know, that's right.

[1:03:30] Chicago's favorite son, the Belushi.

[1:03:32] We're going to do two entries in his cinematic oeuvre.

[1:03:35] Uh-uh.

[1:03:36] So, that's the Flophouse live in Chicago at Sleeping Village.

[1:03:40] Uh-uh.

[1:03:41] For tickets, go to flophousepodcast.com slash events.

[1:03:45] Right?

[1:03:46] Yep.

[1:03:46] And you'll see a link to get tickets to the Flophouse live in Chicago Sunday, November 16th.

[1:03:51] I'm looking forward to it.

[1:03:51] It's going to be a lot of fun.

[1:03:53] Uh, if you can't get tickets to the early show and only the late show, that's okay.

[1:03:55] We're going to be extra loopy at the late show because we'll have just done the early show.

Dan McCoy

[1:03:59] And we're talking about a dog movie.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:01] Yeah, we're talking about canine in that late show.

[1:04:03] So, uh, watch out.

[1:04:05] It's one of the, I think it's probably the most famous movie about a cop with a dog, right?

Dan McCoy

[1:04:10] Not even the most famous from that year.

[1:04:13] Same year as Turner and Hooch.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:15] Not familiar.

[1:04:16] I only know canine.

[1:04:16] Turner and Hooch.

[1:04:17] Wait, how did they get those guys together in one movie?

[1:04:19] They hate each other, Turner and Hooch.

Dan McCoy

[1:04:21] Anyway.

[1:04:22] They quash their beef.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:23] So, if you're in Chicago or the Chicago area, come see us November 16th.

[1:04:27] Tickets at flophousepodcast.com slash events.

[1:04:30] Let's say you can't go to Chicago in November.

[1:04:33] Let's say you can't.

[1:04:34] It would be too bad.

[1:04:34] Seems unlikely, but I'll go with you.

[1:04:36] I mean, I think there's many reasons why someone would not be able to go that specific day to Chicago.

[1:04:40] Don't worry.

[1:04:41] The Flophouse is coming to your house via your computer.

[1:04:46] You don't have to put us up for the night.

[1:04:47] You don't have to feed us.

[1:04:49] Flop TV is back on the air.

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:51] But you are required to, by law, to put us up in your home and feed us if we come to your home.

[1:05:00] Yeah, I think it's the Fourth Amendment.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:01] Yeah, you can't quarter soldiers, but you have to quarter the Flophouse.

[1:05:04] Yeah, so the Flophouse is on the air with Flop TV.

[1:05:08] That is our monthly one-hour televised video version of the Flophouse.

[1:05:12] It's like its own little TV show.

[1:05:13] You've got video segments.

[1:05:14] You've got a presentation.

[1:05:15] And you've got us talking about movies.

[1:05:17] And this season, it's Flopster Peace Theater.

[1:05:19] We're going back through the decades, each episode, talking about a flop we've never talked about.

[1:05:24] September, we talked about the adventures of Pluto Nash.

[1:05:26] That was a lot of fun.

[1:05:27] And in October, we'll be talking about Jack Frost.

Dan McCoy

[1:05:30] I just sent my introduction to the Jack Frost show to Matt, our tech guy, just before taking this trip to see Elliot and do other stuff in L.A.

Elliott Kalan

[1:05:41] And I am working on my video for it, my little video interruption.

[1:05:45] That's the first Saturday in October, October 4th.

[1:05:47] If this episode comes out, and that's already happened, I don't remember when things are coming out.

[1:05:52] Yeah.

[1:05:52] Because there's another show in November, Saturday, November 1st.

[1:05:55] It's the first Saturday of the month, every month.

Dan McCoy

[1:05:58] And also don't worry because you can watch it BOD.

Elliott Kalan

[1:06:01] I was about to get to that.

[1:06:02] Okay, okay.

[1:06:02] Every month, first Saturday of the month, every month through February.

[1:06:05] But if you can't watch it live the first Saturday of the month, don't worry.

[1:06:09] Your ticket gets you access to the video of the show.

[1:06:12] And those videos are going to stay up through the end of February.

[1:06:15] So you can see them whenever you want if you buy a ticket.

[1:06:18] But that's right.

[1:06:19] You have to buy a ticket.

[1:06:20] Just go to theflophouse.simpleticks.com.

[1:06:23] And you can buy tickets for individual shows or a season pass.

[1:06:26] That's six shows for the price of five.

[1:06:29] Go for it.

[1:06:30] And we're going to see so many movies we've never talked about on the show before.

[1:06:33] Jack Frost, Xanadu, Zardoz, Dr. Doolittle, the Rex Harrison version, and Plan 9 from outer space.

[1:06:40] We're building up to the most famous bad movie there ever was.

[1:06:42] We've never talked about it on the Flophouse before.

[1:06:44] And now you'll see us talking about it in TV mode.

[1:06:47] That's theflophouse.simpleticks.com.

[1:06:50] First Saturday of every month, Flop TV.

Dan McCoy

[1:06:53] Hey, cooling weather means swapping your summer clothes for fall staples that are warm, durable, and built to last.

[1:07:02] Like stuff from Quince.

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[1:08:35] Let's answer some letters from listeners just as a treat, you know?

[1:08:39] Yeah, why not?

Elliott Kalan

[1:08:40] A treat for us.

[1:08:41] I deserve it.

Dan McCoy

[1:08:42] This first letter is from Adam, last name withheld.

Elliott Kalan

[1:08:46] The first man, no last name.

Dan McCoy

[1:08:49] Adam writes, since you mentioned the movie Patch Adams in your last minisode.

[1:08:53] Oh, maybe this is the Adam from Patch Adams, yeah.

[1:08:55] Yeah, he's going to fucking flame us.

Elliott Kalan

[1:08:58] Yeah, it goes, John Adams, John Quincy Adams, Patch Adams, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:09:01] I thought I might share the story of when I encountered the real Patch Adams.

[1:09:05] It's a story I never get to tell because no one watches or talks about that movie anymore.

[1:09:13] The year was 2000, and I was a sophomore in high school.

[1:09:17] The high school I went to had a health careers program, and they decided to hire Hunter Patch Adams.

[1:09:25] For a speaking engagement.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:27] I have to say, I don't think I ever knew his first name.

[1:09:29] No.

[1:09:29] I thought his name was just Patch.

Dan McCoy

[1:09:30] This is the first I'm hearing of it.

[1:09:31] Like Wolverine.

[1:09:32] Yeah.

[1:09:33] Just Patch, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:33] Yeah.

[1:09:34] What if when Wolverine is in Madripoor, he's Patch Adams, and he's just trying to make jokes all the time?

[1:09:39] Puts a little nose on.

Dan McCoy

[1:09:41] I was not—

[1:09:41] I'm the best there is at what I do, and what I do is hilarious.

[1:09:44] I was—

[1:09:45] And what I do is mostly prop comedy.

[1:09:49] I was not in the health careers program.

Elliott Kalan

[1:09:52] Hey, bub, why in the hospital?

[1:09:54] Let me make you laugh.

Stuart Wellington

[1:09:55] Yeah, he keeps popping his rubber chickens with his claws.

Dan McCoy

[1:10:00] I don't understand health.

[1:10:02] I heal naturally all the time.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:06] All this time, I thought it was laughter that was causing me to heal so fast.

[1:10:09] Actually, I'm a mutant.

[1:10:11] My mistake.

Dan McCoy

[1:10:15] Sorry, I was not in the health careers program.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:17] I have an unbreakable funny bone.

[1:10:22] I was not in the—

[1:10:23] Call me Patch Adam Vantium.

[1:10:27] This is the character find of 2025.

[1:10:30] Patch Adam Vantium, yeah.

[1:10:32] Yeah, that's Wolverine when he's a funny doctor, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:10:36] I feel lightheaded.

Elliott Kalan

[1:10:38] Hey, aren't you the superhero Wolverine?

[1:10:40] No, I got a patch of mine and a red nose on.

[1:10:42] Of course I'm not Wolverine.

Dan McCoy

[1:10:44] I was not in the health careers program, but apparently they wanted to pack the auditorium,

[1:10:49] so they just rousted a bunch of kids out of class to see this talk.

[1:10:52] Something that I might have an objection to now that I am a parent.

[1:10:58] I had seen the movie Patch Adams and loved it.

[1:11:00] I've not seen it since it came out and strongly doubt I would stand by those views today.

Elliott Kalan

[1:11:05] I'm going to imagine that you were one of the people in the audience in the movie,

[1:11:08] Cecil B. Demented, when they gas a showing of Patch Adams.

Dan McCoy

[1:11:14] So I was really excited to see the real-life version of Robin Williams' lovable med student goof.

[1:11:21] Unfortunately, the real Adams was not a lovable goof of any sort, but rather a humorless, surly older man.

[1:11:28] He talked for an uninterrupted hour alternating between broad critiques of the American healthcare system,

[1:11:34] attacks on Hollywood for ruining his life story,

[1:11:36] and anti-motivational, telling-it-like-it-really-is stories about his life and career.

[1:11:41] The only word to describe this seemingly endless experience was punishing.

[1:11:46] Yes, Stuart?

Stuart Wellington

[1:11:47] No, I'm just saying it sounds awesome.

Dan McCoy

[1:11:50] What had I done to deserve this?

[1:11:52] I just woke up that day and went to school,

[1:11:55] and now I feel like I'm being dressed down by this weird old guy for stuff I had nothing to do with.

[1:12:00] Anyway, the high point was after he was done,

[1:12:02] and the formal part of his talk was over and asked if there were any questions.

[1:12:08] A girl raised her hand and asked about the part of the movie

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:11] Please, Mr. Patch, can you tell me about the movie?

Dan McCoy

[1:12:14] A girl raised her hand and asked about-

[1:12:16] Tell me a joke, I'm dying!

[1:12:20] Asked about the part of the movie where a patient kills Patch's girlfriend.

[1:12:25] Adams pounced like one of the raptors in Jurassic Park,

[1:12:28] practically screaming about how in real life that character was based on one of his male friends,

[1:12:33] and then he did another five minutes or so about the evils of Hollywood.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:36] Okay, tight five on the evils of Hollywood, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:38] There were, unsurprisingly, no further questions.

Elliott Kalan

[1:12:42] I mean, that is an awkward question to ask.

[1:12:45] Well, I mean, certainly after-

[1:12:47] After hearing all that.

Dan McCoy

[1:12:49] In fairness, I'm sure that his critiques of the healthcare system were dead on,

[1:12:52] but I don't think-

[1:12:53] Impossible. It's a great system.

[1:12:54] I don't think Adams did the cause of Medicare for All any favors that day.

[1:12:58] I'll never forget overhearing a teacher confusedly wondering aloud

[1:13:02] why he couldn't have told at least one joke.

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:05] It is kind of his thing.

Dan McCoy

[1:13:07] Anyway, do any of you have experience with meeting a real-life subject of a film?

[1:13:12] Thanks, Adam.

[1:13:15] Thank you for sharing that story.

Elliott Kalan

[1:13:17] I think it must have been hard for Adam to see in Adams being so negative on stage.

[1:13:24] Oh, man.

[1:13:25] I saw Scott Adams.

[1:13:26] He must have hated that.

Stuart Wellington

[1:13:27] I mean, there's a lot of reasons for that, yeah.

[1:13:29] Sorry, Stuart?

[1:13:30] I probably had a bit.

[1:13:32] Let me see if I got a new one.

[1:13:33] Give me a second.

[1:13:33] Can you access it?

[1:13:34] No, you guys.

[1:13:35] It's somebody else now.

Dan McCoy

[1:13:37] I can't think of a particular thing where I saw a movie and then later met the person in the movie or anything like that.

[1:13:44] The thing that came to my mind was more of sort of a general, like, I saw the documentary.

[1:13:51] It started as a joke, which was about the Eugene Merman Comedy Festival.

[1:13:56] And so much of that movie, watching it, the documentary, was like, oh, that was the New York comedy scene when I came to New York.

[1:14:05] Like, I wasn't – I was sort of off to the side of it.

[1:14:10] I wasn't a huge part of it.

[1:14:11] But there were, like, stages that I performed on.

[1:14:14] You know, it's like seeing Rafifi and, like, people did shows there and people that either, like – you know, some of them I knew.

[1:14:22] But most of them are, like, people I'd seen on stage or, like, knew someone who knew them or whatever.

[1:14:27] And it felt like a time capsule and going back to, like, a part of my life.

Elliott Kalan

[1:14:33] That's very sweet.

[1:14:34] I couldn't think of anything – I mean, the closest I can come is, I think, when I went to a panel at Comic-Con that Tommy Wiseau was on.

[1:14:40] And he was everything you'd expect him to be from seeing The Room.

[1:14:43] Like, it was just everything.

[1:14:45] And, like, The Room is not about him, but it is kind of about him, you know.

[1:14:49] But otherwise, like, I've never met, I don't think, the subject of a movie where someone else plays that – I've met people who are in movies.

[1:14:56] Like, I met Kurt Vonnegut once who plays himself in Back to School.

[1:15:00] But, like, I've never – I don't think I've ever met, like, someone who had a movie made about them.

[1:15:05] Oh, except for my dad's – my granddad, Sully.

Dan McCoy

[1:15:08] Oh, okay.

[1:15:08] You know, the pilot.

[1:15:10] No, no.

[1:15:10] I've never –

[1:15:11] The Monster, Inc.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:12] Yeah.

[1:15:13] My granddad, the original monster that movie was based on.

[1:15:16] What about you, Stuart?

[1:15:16] Have you ever met someone who was the subject of a fictional movie?

[1:15:19] I don't think I ever have.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:20] I mean, I've met the subject of a fictional movie that has been the subject of many movies, and that is the city of New York, baby.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:29] That's true.

[1:15:29] New York is a character in many movies, and you live there.

[1:15:32] Yeah, that's true.

[1:15:33] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:33] But, no, I think, like, it's the same thing where I can't think of – I feel like there must be somebody.

[1:15:45] But, no, I can't.

[1:15:45] I can't.

[1:15:46] My brain's – I'm drawing a blank.

Elliott Kalan

[1:15:47] Which, I bet you if we thought really hard, we met somebody who was portrayed by somebody else in a movie.

[1:15:53] But, yeah, I'm having trouble thinking of it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:15:55] But if I think that hard, I might get a nosebleed.

Dan McCoy

[1:16:00] Here's something from Dennis Lastname Witheld, who writes –

[1:16:04] Leary?

[1:16:04] Dennis Leary.

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:05] Yeah.

[1:16:06] He writes, I think you hear me knocking, and I think I'm coming in.

[1:16:09] Floppers, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:16:10] Your Encino Dan mini discussion, where Stuart brought up his issues with lifestyle porn and media, reminded me of one of my most hated recent movies.

[1:16:20] Hmm.

[1:16:20] The 2022 Father of the Bride remake, which I watched with my wife.

[1:16:25] Father of the Bride remake?

[1:16:26] Is that a movie?

[1:16:27] I guess so.

[1:16:28] Did that happen?

[1:16:28] Yeah, apparently.

[1:16:30] Stuart, did you make this movie?

Elliott Kalan

[1:16:31] Yeah.

[1:16:32] I'm looking it up.

Dan McCoy

[1:16:33] Okay, look it up.

[1:16:33] In that movie, they initially pitch an interesting conflict where the daughter of a highly successful immigrant chooses to work for a foreign aid nonprofit upsetting her father,

[1:16:43] who wants her to avoid the life of poverty he so desperately worked to escape from,

[1:16:48] only to immediately throw that premise out in the next scene when it is revealed the father-in-law is a billionaire and the entire movie devolves into lifestyle porn.

Stuart Wellington

[1:16:58] Ah.

[1:16:58] Oh, yeah.

[1:16:59] My question to you is –

[1:17:00] You got Andy Garcia, Gloria Estefan.

[1:17:03] Yeah, yeah.

[1:17:04] Hmm.

Dan McCoy

[1:17:05] I did not even know this movie existed.

[1:17:07] My question to you is, what other movies have you seen that pose an interesting or serious premise,

[1:17:12] only to then throw it out later in favor of pure schlock?

[1:17:18] Keep on rocking in the flop world, Dennis' last name withheld.

Stuart Wellington

[1:17:22] This is a tough one for me because I feel like so often while talking about movies on the flop house,

[1:17:28] we touch on the moments where we're like, oh, that's pretty interesting.

[1:17:31] I could see where they could develop that, but they chose to not do that at all.

[1:17:35] They chose instead to, I don't know, focus on a story about a stolen Fabergé egg or something.

Elliott Kalan

[1:17:43] Yeah.

[1:17:44] What was the interesting story that they could have focused on instead of the stolen Fabergé egg?

[1:17:48] In that particular example?

Stuart Wellington

[1:17:49] How a very successful mystery writer was going to come up with a plan for writing a book about an Easter bunny puppy.

[1:17:56] I guess you're right.

Elliott Kalan

[1:17:56] That is the real – that's the more interesting, intriguing premise.

Dan McCoy

[1:18:02] Yeah, I know that this has happened a lot.

[1:18:05] I'm having a real time – hard time struggling with it.

[1:18:08] I wanted to read it even so because I think it's such an interesting question and maybe something will come to me in the future and we can revisit it or I'll put it in a flop secrets newsletter.

[1:18:19] For some reason, the only thing that's coming to mind is Event Horizon.

[1:18:25] Sure.

[1:18:25] Okay.

[1:18:26] I could buy that.

[1:18:26] And then sort of like toward the beginning of that movie, I'm like, oh, this is like cool.

[1:18:29] This is like a horror Solaris.

[1:18:31] This is a ship that is bringing sort of fantasies to life in a scary way and then it just – like I think it's a cool vision of hell at the end.

[1:18:41] Don't get me wrong.

[1:18:42] But I think the movie kind of falls apart into nonsense.

Elliott Kalan

[1:18:44] I mean there's a lot of movies when they get to the act three especially where it's like, okay, now it's either a crazy person is running around or a murderous person is running around chasing people or it's got to be really action-y all of a sudden.

[1:18:55] Or like the movie that first came to mind –

[1:18:56] There's a portal.

[1:18:57] There's a portal that has to be closed or something.

[1:19:00] The movie that came to mind first to me was the movie In Time that we did on the Flophouse with Justin Timberlake where it was like a world where time is used as money and you can take someone's life and make it part of your life.

[1:19:11] It's like an interesting satirical angle but then it turns into like a revenge movie you write or it's like we're going to rob them before they – they won't even know what hit them.

[1:19:21] It turns into like Bonnie and Clyde or something and it just felt like, well, this is not really the best way to make use of this concept.

[1:19:27] You know?

[1:19:27] Yeah.

[1:19:28] I think anyway.

[1:19:29] I mean people can disagree.

[1:19:29] Maybe they think it's the best way to do that.

[1:19:31] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[1:19:31] In fact, while we think about it, please listeners, if you have an example that you think is particularly telling, feel free to drop it in the comments on the Instagram post for this episode and maybe we'll read those if there's some good ones.

Elliott Kalan

[1:19:46] Yeah.

[1:19:47] I would say even – what was that?

[1:19:48] Yeah, I think that's a great idea that listeners should write in with their examples.

[1:19:51] What was the George Clooney, Julia Roberts movie that we did?

Dan McCoy

[1:19:55] Intolerable –

[1:19:55] Ticket to Paradise?

[1:19:57] What was it called?

[1:19:58] Ticket to Paradise?

[1:19:59] It was Ticket to Paradise.

[1:19:59] I think that's right, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:20:00] Because even there, there's something about these divorced mom and dad, their daughter is marrying someone that she should not be marrying and they're going to rediscover their love of each other while breaking up their daughter's wedding.

[1:20:14] It's like a funny idea.

[1:20:15] Like that could be a really classic, like old-fashioned comedy and they just don't – they kind of give up on that a little bit partly because like the daughter's fiance is so incredibly perfect in every way, you know?

[1:20:26] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:20:27] Yeah, there's like a modern impulse to be too nice or something where it turns into like a hangout comedy rather than the screwball that you might expect from that premise.

[1:20:37] Yeah.

[1:20:39] Anyway, so yeah, great question.

[1:20:41] Hope that we get some answers from folks out there.

[1:20:45] Let's move on to recommendations, movies that we saw that we think are a better use of your time than, say, the way we've spent our lives.

Elliott Kalan

[1:20:56] Yeah, other than the cruel bargain we made with the devil.

[1:20:59] Yeah.

[1:21:00] We would live forever, but we'd have to do it watching these movies.

Dan McCoy

[1:21:04] I'm going to recommend a movie that, you know, was universally basically beloved.

[1:21:10] So it doesn't necessarily need my voice added to the chorus, but I did watch it.

[1:21:14] Babylon.

[1:21:14] I did watch it on a –

[1:21:16] I did watch it on the plane.

[1:21:20] You're a nice thinker.

[1:21:21] Yeah, here.

[1:21:22] And I know how much listeners love tales of plane pictures.

[1:21:25] We love damn movie plane stories.

[1:21:26] Yeah.

[1:21:27] On the way to Los Angeles, I watched Little Women, the Greta Gerwig recent version of Little Women.

[1:21:34] On that screen, it would be very little.

[1:21:36] Very little.

[1:21:37] I thought it was kind of funny that I picked a movie that made me – had me on the verge of tears like every 15 minutes essentially until, of course, the end where finally the tears started actually rolling.

Stuart Wellington

[1:21:54] Yeah, you just edged the whole time and then blasted.

Dan McCoy

[1:21:56] I'm just like – I mean, like I don't know why it should be embarrassing to have like an emotional response to something, but –

Elliott Kalan

[1:22:05] I think it's because you're on a plane.

Dan McCoy

[1:22:06] In public house.

[1:22:07] Yeah.

[1:22:07] Oh, I'm loving this, but why did I choose this?

[1:22:11] Why did I do this to myself?

[1:22:12] I could have watched crap.

[1:22:14] I could have watched this at home where then I could just cry all I wanted.

Elliott Kalan

[1:22:17] Then only your wife would make fun of you.

Dan McCoy

[1:22:19] Yeah, but it's an amazing movie.

[1:22:22] I think Gerwig does some interesting and great things with adaptation, makes some great choices.

[1:22:30] Everyone's wonderful in it.

[1:22:32] It's just –

[1:22:33] Especially Odenkirk, right?

[1:22:35] Odenkirk just crushes it.

[1:22:37] I mean, like I think he's great in it, but it is weird to see Bob Odenkirk just show up.

Elliott Kalan

[1:22:43] It struck me the other day because there was a thing – a video online that was like – it was like Bob Odenkirk looks back on some of his past roles and it was everything after Breaking Bad.

[1:22:51] I'm like, oh, there's whole generations that have no idea that he started in comedy, that he had one of the greatest sketch shows of all time.

[1:22:58] Like they just think of him as Saul or nobody and that's it.

[1:23:02] And like that's – it seems bonkers to me.

[1:23:04] You're thinking of the Ben Stiller show, right?

[1:23:07] Yeah.

[1:23:07] I mean the Ben Stiller show is an underrated show, but no, that's not the one I'm thinking of, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:23:11] Anyway, what a wonderful movie just full of warmth and love and emotion, Little Women.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:16] That's a great movie.

[1:23:17] Greg Gerwig's got such a great filmography.

[1:23:19] Yeah.

[1:23:20] Eventually, her average is going to dip, but she's got – she's directed what, three movies now?

Dan McCoy

[1:23:25] I don't know.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:26] Probably good for Labor.

[1:23:26] Three or four.

[1:23:27] Little Women, Barbie.

[1:23:30] She directed another one?

[1:23:30] Give her a Marvel, you know.

[1:23:32] That's what Ellen's always saying.

[1:23:33] Give her a Marvel.

[1:23:34] Is that –

[1:23:35] I think that – I mean, to be honest, she could do a great job with a Marvel.

[1:23:39] I don't want her to do that, but you know.

Dan McCoy

[1:23:42] I'm looking it up, but you –

[1:23:44] Stuart, why don't you recommend a movie?

Stuart Wellington

[1:23:45] I thought Dan was saying, I am legend, and I'm like, I don't think that's her.

[1:23:50] No, I want her to do a version of I am legend.

[1:23:52] Although I have some of her trademarks.

Dan McCoy

[1:23:53] Closer to the book.

Elliott Kalan

[1:23:55] I mean, Dan, there's already Last Man on Earth, which is pretty close to the book in some ways.

Stuart Wellington

[1:24:01] Yeah.

[1:24:02] So I'm going to recommend – I have been on a kick watching movies with the actress, the Chinese actress Tang Wei from Decision to Leave from a few years ago, which was one of my favorite movies.

[1:24:18] She's so great in that as a possible femme fatale.

[1:24:24] So I just recently picked up the Kino Lorber Blu-ray of Lust Caution, the Ang Lee movie.

[1:24:31] I've never seen Lust Caution.

[1:24:32] Yeah.

[1:24:33] And I hadn't seen it either, and I'm like, I'm not going to watch the streaming version, which is rated R.

[1:24:39] I'm going for the NC-17, please.

[1:24:42] And watching – it's a movie set in occupied – Japanese occupied China, and Tang Wei plays a young actress turned revolutionary who goes undercover to infiltrate and seduce and hopefully kidnap and or kill a collaborationist played by the great Tony Leung.

[1:25:07] Everybody loves him.

[1:25:08] He's the best.

[1:25:09] He is one of the best, yeah.

[1:25:10] And there's also a lovely performance from Joan Chen who plays his wife.

[1:25:16] So she – Tang Wei becomes his mistress.

[1:25:19] And the – it's a movie that has some of the most intense and graphic sex scenes I've seen in a non-pornographic movie.

[1:25:30] And there's something so jarring about them.

[1:25:33] There's something so like intense and physical, particularly because so much of the rest of the movie is like very like buttoned up and careful.

[1:25:46] And like the whole idea of like not wanting to reveal too much for fear that you'll get outed for who you are.

[1:25:54] So that when they have these –

[1:25:56] That's the caution part.

[1:25:58] Yeah.

[1:25:58] It's this like intense burst of like physical emotion and like there's a certain freedom that they can feel when they're alone.

[1:26:07] It's a really beautiful movie.

[1:26:09] And yeah, it's great.

[1:26:11] Check it out.

Dan McCoy

[1:26:12] I have some Gerwig news.

[1:26:15] Oh, great.

Stuart Wellington

[1:26:15] A roving Gerwig report.

[1:26:17] Oh, she just – she was the – she just wrote the script for I Am Legend.

[1:26:21] Okay.

[1:26:22] Thank you.

Dan McCoy

[1:26:22] Well, if you're not including the video for Dua Lipa Dance the Night.

[1:26:30] I'm not counting that as a feature.

[1:26:32] She's directed four movies.

[1:26:35] Oh, what's the other one?

[1:26:35] I was correct that she co-directed something.

[1:26:38] I knew that she co-directed something.

[1:26:39] I was wrong about what and with whom.

[1:26:42] She co-directed Nights and Weekends with Joe Swanberg.

[1:26:45] That was her first directing credit.

[1:26:46] Oh, okay.

Dan McCoy

[1:26:46] I haven't seen that.

[1:26:46] I guess she just co-wrote Princess Ha.

[1:26:48] But yeah, that, Lady Bird, Little Women, and Barbie, of course.

[1:26:53] And then she's got that Narnia Netflix thing.

[1:26:56] What we all wanted her to do.

[1:26:58] She's got some great acting credits.

[1:26:59] That's her next credit.

Elliott Kalan

[1:27:01] What a waste.

[1:27:01] I mean, get that money.

Dan McCoy

[1:27:02] I'm sure it'll be the best version of that.

[1:27:06] But yeah, I wish we lived in a world where she was doing something else.

Elliott Kalan

[1:27:10] Where she could – I mean, she was – maybe she – they're like, you could do that with Barbie.

[1:27:14] You could do that with Narnia.

[1:27:15] Yeah.

[1:27:15] But we call it Barbia.

[1:27:17] Yeah.

[1:27:19] The Lion, the Witch, and the Barbie.

[1:27:21] Or Barbie could be the witch.

[1:27:22] How do we get you on board?

[1:27:23] She's like, I didn't invent Barbie.

[1:27:24] Like, it's not the only thing that I do.

[1:27:25] But to be honest, so I have a reputation these days as the busiest man in podcasting.

[1:27:31] No time to do anything.

[1:27:32] That reputation is accurate.

[1:27:34] I have a dearth of movies to recommend.

[1:27:38] But I will say, because the new Spinal Tap was coming out, my wife and I started rewatching the original Spinal Tap, which I had not watched in years.

[1:27:47] And you know what?

[1:27:48] I love it.

[1:27:49] Super funny.

[1:27:50] Totally lives up to my memories.

[1:27:51] Every time I see it, there's jokes that I notice in it that I didn't notice as much before.

[1:27:55] There's all this subtle performance stuff in it.

[1:27:57] And the jokes that I remember, I still laugh at.

[1:27:59] So you know what?

[1:28:00] If you want to laugh and you like music, you could go wronger than this is Spinal Tap.

[1:28:07] I have not seen the sequel.

[1:28:09] I don't have the highest hopes for it.

[1:28:13] No.

[1:28:13] But the original still works.

Stuart Wellington

[1:28:16] I do like between both of your recommendations, we have the two leads of Better Call Saul.

Elliott Kalan

[1:28:21] It's true.

[1:28:22] Yeah, that's right.

[1:28:23] That's true.

[1:28:24] And Lust Caution has Harry Shearer in it, right?

[1:28:27] Yeah, yeah.

[1:28:28] He disappears.

Dan McCoy

[1:28:31] Well, what a lovely change of pace to be on this side of the Zoom call.

[1:28:38] What?

[1:28:38] Stuart, sorry.

[1:28:39] I will take that as a deep insult, Stuart.

[1:28:41] Yeah.

[1:28:41] No, I'm not calling.

[1:28:42] Probably has nothing to do with how you smell.

[1:28:44] I'm not saying anything about it.

[1:28:45] I smell too good.

[1:28:46] It gets a little worked up.

Elliott Kalan

[1:28:47] Yeah, yeah.

[1:28:48] You can't concentrate.

Dan McCoy

[1:28:49] It's just a way to keep the relationship fresh, you know?

Elliott Kalan

[1:28:51] But I also know that, Dan, your room where you record is often very hot.

[1:28:55] This room is not as hot.

[1:28:56] Not as hot, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[1:28:57] This is a temperate room.

[1:28:58] Yeah, it's super fucking hot.

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:01] I'm wearing tank top, shorts.

Dan McCoy

[1:29:04] Fewer cats, though.

[1:29:05] That's the main problem with this room.

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:07] There's 200% fewer cats.

Dan McCoy

[1:29:10] No, no, Stuart, Stuart.

[1:29:11] Lovely, of course.

[1:29:12] I'm just, I'm glad to see our boy Elliot next time.

[1:29:16] I hope you're here as well.

[1:29:17] Yeah, that'd be great.

[1:29:19] And what else do I do at the end of the show?

Elliott Kalan

[1:29:22] Thank people.

[1:29:23] Thank Alex.

[1:29:24] Talk about the network.

Dan McCoy

[1:29:24] And then inadvertently insulting someone.

[1:29:27] It's fine.

[1:29:28] Thank you, Alex.

[1:29:30] Alex Smith, of course, is our producer.

[1:29:32] He goes by the name Howell Doughty on the vast corners of the internet.

[1:29:36] He does his own podcast, which I enjoy very much, where he talks to a man who is a possum,

[1:29:42] a large man-sized possum.

[1:29:46] He does great music.

[1:29:47] Look him up.

[1:29:49] Also, thank you to our network, Maximum Fun.

[1:29:52] Go to MaximumFun.org.

[1:29:54] Check out the other great shows.

[1:29:55] Maybe become a member if you like what we do.

[1:29:59] But that's about it.

[1:30:01] For the Flophouse, I've been Dan McCoy.

Elliott Kalan

[1:30:05] I've been Stuart Wellington here in New York City.

[1:30:09] And I've been Elliot Kalin bringing Dan over to Los Angeles, where he'll never return from.

[1:30:14] Yeah, I figured.

[1:30:16] What?

Dan McCoy

[1:30:17] Stay tuned to find out if he escapes.

Stuart Wellington

[1:30:21] Bye, Gorsh.

[1:30:30] And Alex, I may just delete this audio.

[1:30:33] What?

[1:30:35] All right, sorry.

[1:30:36] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[1:30:37] I'm fucking Bizarro over here.

[1:30:40] That's the thing when Bizarro apologizes to people.

[1:30:42] He goes, sorry, Bizarri.

Stuart Wellington

[1:30:45] Yep.

[1:30:45] Well, when Bizarro would upload a podcast, he would accidentally download a podcast.

Elliott Kalan

[1:30:51] It's true.

[1:30:52] He goes, me, listeners, am enjoying not hearing podcasts.

[1:30:56] He's like, Bizarro, just tell us what you're trying to tell us.

[1:30:59] It's so possible to parse what you're trying to say.

Dan McCoy

[1:31:02] Uh-huh.

[1:31:03] Me listen to Smart Fool.

Elliott Kalan

[1:31:06] Okay, anyway.

Dan McCoy

[1:31:08] Smart Fool.

Ep.#462 - Imaginary

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