Ella McCay

[0:00] On this episode, we discuss Ella McKay.

[0:04] I didn't realize I need to have a hot one queued up.

[0:06] Sorry.

[0:07] You usually have some hot ones.

[0:08] Usually, you have the hottest ones, too.

[0:10] Yeah.

[0:11] Oh, man.

[0:12] I got a smoker.

[0:13] Watch out.

[0:14] Get on your fucking oven mitts.

[0:15] Okay.

[0:16] On this episode, we discuss Ella McKay.

[0:18] By James Ella Brooks.

[0:24] Pretty good.

[0:31] Oh, wow.

[0:48] Hey, everyone, and welcome to The Flophouse.

[0:50] I'm Dan McCoy.

[0:51] I'm Stuart Wellington.

[0:53] And I'm Elliot Kalin.

[0:55] Not doing this bit because I've got stuff to promote.

[0:57] I've got an all-new comic book,

[0:58] Barbarian Behind Bars, on comic book shelves right now.

[1:02] Now, you say it's on comic book shelves right now,

[1:04] but I'm looking over at my own comic book shelf,

[1:06] and I don't see it.

[1:07] That just shows me you're a bad friend.

[1:09] Yeah.

[1:10] Actually, even though not even the first issue had been out,

[1:15] I preordered the trade paperback.

[1:18] Great.

[1:19] Okay, good.

[1:20] That still counts.

[1:21] An order is an order.

[1:22] It's the only way I read comics.

[1:23] Wait, the first floppy issue is already out, Elliot?

[1:26] The first floppy issue of Barbarian Behind Bars is already out.

[1:29] What happens when a barbarian from a fantasy world ends up on Earth

[1:32] and gets thrown in the slammer?

[1:34] I've got to head to my local comic book shop

[1:36] and wade through a pile of manga and figurines

[1:40] and then get to the back of the store

[1:42] where I'll request that specific comic book.

[1:44] They should clean up that manga spill that's been there for so long.

[1:47] Oh, it's so hard because the birds get stuck to their feathers

[1:50] and then they can't fly.

[1:52] They tried a junk shot to stop the manga leak,

[1:55] but it hasn't.

[1:56] Do you guys remember that years ago

[1:58] when the Deep Horizon was still leaking oil and they were like,

[2:00] well, what if we fill it with crap?

[2:02] They just tried to fill it with garbage to stop the leak and that didn't work.

[2:04] Didn't that help, though?

[2:05] I think it helped a little bit maybe,

[2:07] but it was not the Hail Mary success that they hoped it would be.

[2:12] It didn't stop until the Earth ran out of oil.

[2:15] Well, this isn't a Disasters of the Past podcast.

[2:18] No, it's a Disasters of Cinema Presents podcast.

[2:24] We're a podcast where we watch a bad movie and then we talk about it

[2:27] or a movie that has been purported to be bad.

[2:30] We don't know. We don't know ahead of time.

[2:32] Sometimes it's a movie that means, well, it's hard and it's in its right place.

[2:35] God bless them.

[2:37] Sometimes we get a little whiff of a stinker

[2:40] and we follow our nose to the local Cineplex.

[2:43] I mean, we don't even have a choice.

[2:45] The scent sticks its fingers into our nose

[2:47] and pulls us along floating through the air.

[2:49] And we float along, toes curled, fingers tingling.

[2:52] Not to tip our hands a little, or at least my own hand beforehand.

[2:57] Because you have a glass of water in that hand and it will spill everywhere when you tip it.

[3:01] This is a movie I do feel a little bad about covering

[3:04] just because it's like, oh, we don't get these kinds of movies anymore.

[3:08] And it does have its heart in the right place.

[3:10] And it's not like I, you know, spoiler, hated it or anything.

[3:15] But it was a large flop.

[3:19] It was a movie that did not do well on a big level.

[3:22] They don't make movies for aunts and uncles anymore.

[3:24] No.

[3:25] I think we can hold two opposing thoughts in our head,

[3:29] or two complicated thoughts in our heads,

[3:32] which is one is I would like to see them make more movies like this.

[3:36] But also this is not a good version of one of those movies.

[3:40] It's not successful at being the kind of movie that I wish they made more of

[3:44] and which James L. Brooks, the write director, has made several of.

[3:48] So it is no slam on James L. Brooks to say, spoiler alert, this is not his best work.

[3:54] No.

[3:56] A man who made broadcast news, maybe a perfect movie.

[4:01] Yeah, in terms of endearment, which is a wonderful movie,

[4:03] even as good as it gets, which is not quite as good as those,

[4:06] is a much better movie than this.

[4:08] It doesn't live up to its title, but it's still pretty good.

[4:12] This is more on the Spanglish end of the pool.

[4:16] Ouch.

[4:18] So let's dive into that Spanglish pool party.

[4:24] Yeah, Spanglish pool party.

[4:26] I think Trump has declared those against the law.

[4:29] Dan just looked at me when he was saying that,

[4:32] and my blood ran cold thinking I was supposed to do the summary.

[4:35] And I'm like, no, I'm not.

[4:37] No, I'm on summary duty today, so get ready.

[4:40] Because here in California it is very summary.

[4:42] It's a blazing 81 degrees, whereas where you guys are, what is it, like negative 703 degrees?

[4:48] It's actually okay now.

[4:49] We're back in the 40s, but we have, you know, we did our second blizzard of the year recently.

[4:55] Yeah, we're all cool cats.

[4:57] It's too bad you're not in Australia because then it could be the blizzard of Oz.

[5:00] But, no, you're in New York City, so that pun would make no sense.

[5:03] So moving on to Ella McKay.

[5:05] This is something that everybody loves,

[5:07] a movie that gives the people making the trailers the opportunity to have a bunch of characters just repeat the main character's name because it's the title over and over again.

[5:15] I assume I saw the commercial for this, and you had a bunch of characters going, Ella?

[5:18] Ella?

[5:19] Ella McKay?

[5:20] I was like, I'm going to fucking hate this movie.

[5:22] Like I just don't like trailers where they do that.

[5:25] So there have been good movies that are just the name of a character.

[5:30] I don't mind when the title is the name of the character.

[5:32] I don't like it when the commercial has just cuts together.

[5:36] I don't like it when the commercial just cuts together a bunch of people saying the name as if it's like the audience is supposed to be like, this person must be famous.

[5:42] I got to see this.

[5:43] I understand your objection.

[5:45] I understand your specific objection.

[5:47] But I do kind of think personally this is just me, Dan.

[5:52] It's a little weird to name movies after like a character that like is not a character that we all know already.

[6:01] But there have been good examples.

[6:03] Jerry Maguire, stuff like that.

[6:05] But it does seem like a pretty boring way to name a movie.

[6:11] Like get a load of this.

[6:12] You can't wait until you meet this guy.

[6:14] You don't know what his deal is, but you're going to know soon.

[6:17] That's true.

[6:18] You get a movie like Dodsworth, which is an amazing movie.

[6:20] It's a beautiful movie, but it's about a guy named Dodsworth.

[6:23] Sometimes I think it's because there are certain types of movies, and Ella McKay is trying to be one of those movies where I think it's hard to sum up the concept of the movie in a phrase, in a title.

[6:33] That was a problem that James L. Brooks had when writing the screenplay.

[6:37] What is it about?

[6:38] He also had the problem of summing up what the movie is about in the story.

[6:41] But like a movie like Dodsworth, it's about an older man whose marriage is falling apart, and he goes to Europe, and he finds new love again.

[6:48] What are you going to call that?

[6:50] With this one, what would you call it, Dan?

[6:52] I guess you could call it Little Miss Nooner.

[6:54] That could be the title of the movie.

[6:56] You'd probably get a better audience if you got that.

[7:00] I would.

[7:01] I feel like the Tomatometer would be fucked up, though, because all these people would see it expecting one thing.

[7:07] Yeah, that's a good point.

[7:09] It would be the old Simpsons joke about going to see Naked Lunch.

[7:12] He goes, I can think of two things wrong with that title.

[7:14] I think the movie should have been called Shenanigans in Rhode Island.

[7:19] You think it's Rhode Island?

[7:20] Okay.

[7:21] I mean the whole thing was shot in Rhode Island, and they don't specify, but it's got like a Rhode Island feel.

[7:26] And they do mention ports at one point.

[7:28] A Rhode Island feel, huh?

[7:29] Yeah, that famous Rhode Island feel.

[7:31] Well, the idea that she's like the lieutenant governor of like a small state makes sense.

[7:36] Yeah.

[7:37] I mean it especially makes sense because once she becomes governor, there's no like big things that she has to deal with almost immediately.

[7:44] But anyway, so let's start the movie.

[7:46] Let's talk about it.

[7:47] We start not with Ella McKay herself.

[7:48] We start with Julie Kavner.

[7:49] That's right.

[7:50] TV's Marge, longtime James O'Brook's cohort.

[7:53] Call me!

[7:54] When James O'Brook's perfect.

[7:56] Wait, let's hear it again.

[7:57] Call me!

[7:59] That's just – oh, I thought – is Julie Kavner here?

[8:03] Miss Kavner, thank you so much for joining the podcast.

[8:05] Special guest, everybody.

[8:06] Yeah, but all she said was homie, yeah.

[8:08] Getting scratchier and scratchier because she's giving up there in years.

[8:12] Yeah, Dan, so you're criticizing her for the time passing?

[8:15] No, I'm just saying that like – no, not at all, but like her already famously scratchy voice is now like a vinyl record you bought.

[8:25] I love it though.

[8:26] A warm fuzz of vinyl, yeah.

[8:27] I've got calf scratch fever, so I'm totally cool with it, yeah.

[8:30] So Julie Kavner, she introduced herself as the narrator.

[8:33] She's someone who works for and loves Ella McKay.

[8:35] Who is Ella McKay?

[8:36] Well, let's go back to –

[8:38] Well, she adores her.

[8:39] That's what I know about her.

[8:40] She adores her.

[8:41] She adores Ella McKay, and she assumes that you, the audience, I think are also going to come to adore her.

[8:45] At the end, we can talk about whether we came to adore Ella McKay.

[8:49] I mean if anything is going to do it, it's Julie Kavner saying that she adores someone.

[8:53] I'm like okay.

[8:54] I'll hear it out.

[8:55] But I think – I don't know about you guys.

[8:57] We'll get to it.

[8:58] I found Ella McKay as a character very off-putting, and I think it was as if – it was almost as if –

[9:03] Because she's a woman.

[9:04] That's what it is.

[9:05] No, no, but there's this intense honest forthrightness about her that I think needed a little bit more of an understanding from the movie about how off-putting that can be.

[9:18] I think that the movie does understand it.

[9:20] That's the whole point.

[9:21] I felt like the other characters in the movie understood it, but I felt like the movie didn't understand it because the other characters in the movie would be like, you understand that people don't like you, Ella.

[9:29] But the movie kept presenting her as like, you love her.

[9:32] You fucking love her.

[9:33] She's amazing.

[9:34] I am not going to say that this movie is successful, but I would suggest that the movie is trying to say like why do we hate people who are honest and forthright and passionate?

[9:44] Like why is that?

[9:46] I think the thing is that – well, we'll get to it I guess, but her character is forthright and passionate, but she's also fairly oblivious to the people around her.

[9:53] She sees all of the world through the lens of what's important to her or her feelings, and I think that's what was really getting to me is that –

[10:00] I don't think she ever reckons with that, you know, that she is imposing herself and her feelings

[10:04] on other characters throughout the movie, you know. But anyway, flashback to 2008, because

[10:08] that's when the movie takes place. And Ella is the third youngest woman to be lieutenant governor of

[10:14] an unnamed state, which is quite an achievement, I guess. Then we flashback almost instantly to

[10:22] when she was 16 to find out about her family trauma. Yeah, a little bit of whiplash here.

[10:27] It's a little bit of whiplash and not the fun whiplash where the guy's playing drums and J.K.

[10:30] Simmons is like, play those drums faster. I guess that is fun and it is confusing. We were doing a

[10:35] little texting about like how old everyone's supposed to be in this movie. And it is odd

[10:40] that like we flashback like a decade from 2008 or whatever it is. And Ellen McKay is still played by

[10:47] Emma Mackey. It's confusing enough that the character and the actress have almost the same

[10:52] name. Yeah. The only person played by a different actor is her younger brother, who's played by a

[10:59] younger actor, which I think was a much younger. Oh, you think he should have played the same

[11:03] actor who played him in his 20s and also at eight? Yes. Well, I kind of agree. If like just in that,

[11:08] like if you're going to change one actor, change them all, like have someone play the younger

[11:12] Ellen McKay. It is so weird to have her flashback and be like, wait, Rebecca Hall is supposed to be

[11:17] her mom who's 14 years older than her. Yeah, well, I'm and also Woody Harrelson. Woody Harrelson

[11:23] gets to wear unconvincing wigs, both as a young of younger middle aged man and as an old man.

[11:28] But I would say I I don't I think they should have. I think they should have a younger actor

[11:33] playing it. And so, yeah, I think Woody Harrelson made like the wig department mad on one of his

[11:38] movies. And now they're all like, yeah, the hairdressers union has declared a fatwa against

[11:44] Woody Harrelson's image. And so whenever they're moving, he's like, well, time to go to my wig

[11:49] fitting. And they're like, oh, you're in for it this time. You know what you did to the world

[11:53] of wigs. Yeah. What do you think he did? What do you think he did? I don't know. Like he's pretty

[11:58] he's pretty beloved, you know? I mean, that's why he starred in Beloved.

[12:03] I thought that was a weird. I don't agree with. He also co-wrote it. He didn't get credit,

[12:08] but he did. Well, because he's big friends. He was close friends with Tony Morrison at the time.

[12:12] And he was like, Tony, I want you to write a story for me. And again, it was strange casting,

[12:17] but, you know, very odd. And you won the Academy Award for it. So you can't argue.

[12:23] So so so this is Flashman when she's 16. Emma Mackey plays the character in both her dad,

[12:29] Woody Harrelson and her Aunt Helen Jamie Lee Curtis are there. She's a younger brother.

[12:34] And her mom, Rebecca Hall and Ella, her dad is resigning from his job as a hospital

[12:40] administrator or something because of affairs that he had with his workers, with his employees.

[12:45] And Ella is confronting her dad over this. And she refuses to go with him and stand by him and

[12:51] pretend that everything's OK. And she takes her brother, Casey, and literally brings him to the

[12:55] to the dictionary to read the definition of trauma to him. And the women in the family,

[13:01] they all side with Ella. Woody Harrelson goes off on his own to resign, leaving his wife,

[13:05] his sister and his daughter there. Six months later, whiplash. Her mom is like,

[13:11] hey, we're moving to California for a fresh start. And Ella's like, but it'll ruin my education.

[13:17] And she goes, why do you stay with her with him, mom? Because I still love him. And Ella is so

[13:22] disappointed. And then her mom says, you can stay with Aunt Helen until you go to college.

[13:25] And she's equally upset about that. Like she didn't want to move and she doesn't want to stay.

[13:30] They have a lot of tearful, heavy because, I mean, Jamie Lee Curtis is like locked in

[13:35] on like the aunt role. Yes. I believe it a thousand percent. The only I mean,

[13:40] Jamie Lee Curtis is really good in this. She's not it's not a good part, but she's really good

[13:44] in it. And I would say that the only person she she her only rival for loving and adoring Ella

[13:49] McKay is Julie Kavner. These two characters like she has two strong older women who are always in

[13:54] her corner. And, you know, that's that's something to be said. And I think there is something about

[13:59] the way Ella talks and the way that Aunt Helen talks, which at times made me feel like James O.

[14:03] Brooks was trying to write almost kind of Wes Anderson type characters. There's like Ella's

[14:09] like, you still love me, don't you, Aunt Helen? And I was like, ridiculously. And there's a part

[14:13] where Aunt Helen says to Woody Harrelson, like, I will never forgive you. I love you. If there's

[14:17] anything you need, call me. And that's a very kind of like Wes Anderson. I don't I think that

[14:21] James L. Brooks has been writing dialogue like that for years. It's just been in better movies.

[14:27] Maybe I don't think of him as sounding that kind of like that kind of like cute or kind of like

[14:33] what's the word? Like coy is not the word I'm looking for, but like glib. There's a glibness

[14:38] to it that I don't associate with James L. Brooks, you know, but I don't know. I think

[14:42] you misremember maybe. And it also a Helen looks at at Ella's papers from school and she smiles

[14:48] at the teacher's comment. Helen and Ella, that's crazy, right? That is crazy. That's Helen and Ella.

[14:54] Yeah, man, man. Those vowel sounds are so similar, man. It's like they took one name and put it

[15:00] inside another name. It's like Ella with an H and an N. Take the A and put an E in there

[15:07] instead of one of the L's. But Helen ate Ella. Guys, have you heard the story about how how

[15:15] six was afraid of seven? You're never going to believe what seven did to nine.

[15:21] So it feels good to be seen by you guys. So Helen smiles. The teacher has written on Ella's report.

[15:29] You can be a force for good, which which feels like a very on the nose comment from a teacher

[15:34] on a paper. Anyway, we go back to 2008. There's a reporter pursuing Ella. We don't know why yet.

[15:39] Ella goes to the fundraising phone room where state legislators spend seven hours a day

[15:45] off away from the state capitol, just calling to raise funds for the party.

[15:49] And she sees Governor Bill James L. Brooks, his brother, Albert Brooks.

[15:52] I'm just kidding. They're not related. So also with a really cool way,

[15:56] he also has a great way. I mean, Albert Brooks also really good in this movie.

[16:00] Not a surprise. He's Albert Brooks. He's a genius. You know, if there's one if there's

[16:04] one reason to see this movie, it's Albert Brooks. I wish he was in more of it. I wish

[16:08] this was an Albert Brooks movie. And he also has a weird way. And they're not really brothers.

[16:12] Albert Brooks's brother is, of course, the late Super Dave Osborne. The they he tells me he goes,

[16:18] I'm going to be appointed to the cabinet secretary of the interior, which fights the idea that this

[16:22] is Rhode Island, because if you're going to appoint a governor secretary of the interior,

[16:26] usually they come from a Western or Midwestern state, a large state or a swing state.

[16:31] Rhode Island is essentially useless in the Electoral College. When you're balancing your

[16:37] cabinet, you don't usually. Well, unless unless he just represents the northeast,

[16:41] you know, basically, or, you know, 2008, dude, a different time. That's true. It was a different

[16:46] way. Rhode Island was much bigger when Rhode Island was king before Rhode Island had fought

[16:50] that war against California and lost all that territory and reparations they had to pay.

[16:54] It was crazy. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, the he goes, I'm going to be appointed to the cabinet. You're

[17:00] going to replace me as governor. But she knows she's got a problem. Oh, she goes to Aunt Helen

[17:06] for help. She goes to Helen's bar slash restaurant. So you must have loved this

[17:09] scene that she's a she's a drinks and food sales salesman, mostly drinks, right?

[17:14] Drinks and food sales. She's like, what do I have to do to get you into a burrito today?

[17:19] What do I have to say? Can I get it without cilantro? Oh, they put that into the factory.

[17:24] I'm so sorry. B.C. always be chomping. That is that what Glenn Gary Lynn Ross starring Jabberjaw.

[17:35] So unfortunately, her dad is there and she gets really flustered. She does not want to see him.

[17:39] Leads no leads. If only you gave us the Glenn Gary leads.

[17:48] The so they we also meet her security detail, Kumail Nanjiani as Nash, the guy who is her

[17:56] devoted bodyguard that because her dad is at Ellen's, that means we get at Helen's not Ellen's.

[18:02] I'm sorry. Ellen's would be by the book, the bookstore that Ellen DeGeneres owned in the TV

[18:06] show. Ellen, I apologize. This is Helen's. So Ella flashes back to her mom's funeral and she's

[18:13] mad when a one of the mourners is clearly someone because Rebecca Hall is not in the movie anymore.

[18:19] I mean, I was mad that Rebecca Hall wasn't. She's like, sorry, I got to go talk to King Kong some

[18:22] more. And I'm like, you can do so much more than that. Sorry, I have no patience for your wig

[18:28] option. She goes. She goes. She's mad that one of her dad's like lovers has come by to grieve and

[18:38] Ella refuses to cry and from everybody, she has her brother stand guard outside of her bedroom

[18:42] so she can cry inside and then they cry together. It's a sad scene. There's no. And I think Helen

[18:47] might cry, too. It's a lot of crying. So Ella goes to see her dad. It's awkward between them.

[18:52] And he goes, I met another woman. She wants me to make amends and with my kids. And now it gets

[18:57] upset and storms out. And Ella reveals her aunt what her secret is. Oh, what is the devastating

[19:03] secret that could sink her political career before it barely even started? It turns out that she and

[19:08] her husband, Ryan, who you may know as River from Slow Horses. Yeah. Yeah. She and her husband,

[19:14] Ryan, they have had a hard time finding time to be together and they want to raise a family.

[19:18] So at lunchtime, she will meet him at a city owned apartment and they will have sex during lunch.

[19:25] And that's the scandal. Yeah. What's that called, Dan? That's called what's that? Well,

[19:30] well, in this case, apparently it's misappropriation of funds because like public property, they're

[19:36] using public property for a private matter now. Oh, and also her name is in the Epstein files.

[19:43] We should mention the movie. Yeah. Oh, God. Not not on the case. She was the best of us. Oh,

[19:48] no, she was. No, I mean, the movie, to its credit, knows that this is not a big deal.

[19:54] It only becomes a big deal when a river, the idiot husband tries to cover it up.

[20:00] But, you know, it is one of these cases where you see what you're talking about,

[20:05] Elliot, that that Ella is so rigid that she's like freaking out over this non issue.

[20:11] Yeah. Like makes it an issue for herself.

[20:13] But like, oh, I got to get ahead of this.

[20:14] You know, like no one like no one would have known that is misappropriation to like

[20:21] they were just like, oh, OK, a married couple had sex.

[20:26] Yeah. Terrible.

[20:27] And now and later in the movie, they're like, your poll numbers are up now that people know about it.

[20:30] But there's a reporter who's blackmailing her, saying that he wants special access

[20:35] to her, I guess, in exchange.

[20:38] And she's like, no, I refuse.

[20:39] When in reality, this seems like the easiest thing you could possibly do.

[20:43] It's like, yeah, I'll give you an interview.

[20:44] Sure. But after.

[20:46] Yeah. After this is revealed, she you know, she meets with her husband to talk about it.

[20:51] And there's a scene where they it's just after they've had sex and they're lying in bed together.

[20:55] And she is like a really weird scarf around her neck.

[20:58] And I'm like, what is going on?

[21:00] I have to assume it's just like in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, the comics where Mina always has a scarf

[21:05] around her neck to cover the scars from when Dracula bit her.

[21:08] And when she is having sex with Alan Quatermain, the it comes loose.

[21:12] And he sees how horribly she's been scarred by by the count.

[21:15] She does seem like someone Dracula would bite.

[21:17] Oh, for sure. Oh, for sure.

[21:19] To seduce and corrupt a pure soul like hers.

[21:22] He would love that. He'd love that shit.

[21:23] He would go crazy for it.

[21:24] He's totally he'd totally get Ryan drunk and sign a contract.

[21:27] He gets three days. He gets his wife.

[21:30] Yeah. Wow. Now, at this point, you may be asking yourself,

[21:33] Ella McCain, your husband signed a contract.

[21:39] He's a place and I get you.

[21:43] Well, Dracula, I don't think this contract is going to hold up in court.

[21:46] Oh, no. What am I going to do?

[21:48] Oh, this is hard for me, but I'm pushing through it.

[21:51] OK, Dracula, I guess actually now I wish that was the movie.

[21:55] Well, this kind of ties into what I was going to say.

[21:57] What an amazing movie this would have been if it's like, well, well, Ella,

[22:00] I'm going to be in the cabinet.

[22:01] So you're lieutenant governor now.

[22:03] But Dracula is in town.

[22:05] Oh, no, I'm going to have to deal with that. That would be great.

[22:07] I've just been governor for a day and I've got to deal with Dracula.

[22:10] It's a big deal in Rhode Island.

[22:12] Yeah, he's he has a lot of history with Rhode Island.

[22:15] Not all of it. Good. Let's just say that.

[22:17] Oh, well, he came to America was mad.

[22:19] It wasn't an island. That was the first thing.

[22:22] This is very much part of the mainland.

[22:25] I have not been this lied to since I went to Greenland.

[22:30] Oh, man, don't get him started.

[22:33] I don't put him in front of a fucking brick wall.

[22:35] We'll be here all night.

[22:36] I have to I have two drives that obsess me.

[22:39] One is corrupting the world so I can be returned to my true love

[22:44] who died centuries ago.

[22:45] I have swum oceans of time to find her.

[22:47] And the other is misidentification of geographical features.

[22:53] And why is there a West Virginia when there is only a Virginia?

[22:58] Why does Virginia get to be Virginia?

[23:00] But West Virginia has to be West Virginia.

[23:03] Well, Dracula, it has to do with East Virginia.

[23:06] Well, Dracula, let's do it.

[23:07] The history of that state during the Civil War.

[23:09] We can get into it.

[23:09] There is a very good reason.

[23:12] Ah, Dracula, now I'm now I'm just immortal.

[23:15] And I can keep telling you about how West Virginia from Virginia.

[23:18] Oh, no, I'm stuck with this guy.

[23:20] Oh, no. Yeah, no, that's right.

[23:23] I guess I have to.

[23:24] The judge said I have to be his butler for a month.

[23:29] But well, sorry.

[23:30] The thing I wanted to mention a long time ago is the listener

[23:32] probably at this point is in a galaxy far away.

[23:34] Yeah. What is Alan McKay about?

[23:37] I don't know.

[23:37] Oh, well, guess what, Dan?

[23:39] Because we're about to get a totally different storyline

[23:41] because Ella's brother, Casey, is not talking to her.

[23:43] And she's all right.

[23:44] She has to figure that out.

[23:45] So she says, I'm going to go to my brother's.

[23:47] We're going to skip the scene.

[23:48] Rand Helen is mad at her dad because who cares?

[23:52] On the way to Casey's apartment,

[23:54] Nash tries to talk to Ella about how his mom fell in a pool once.

[23:57] And there's a story that is totally pointless, but it makes Ella laugh.

[24:00] And it feels like the movie is trying very hard to hint at an emerging romance

[24:06] between these characters without actually having it happen.

[24:09] And so it's it's it felt like they were the movie was edging me

[24:13] with with the with the implication of possible romance.

[24:15] Yeah, I'm never actually going at the end,

[24:18] you know, without getting ahead of ourselves.

[24:20] Kumail ends up working the same place where Ella is working.

[24:24] And I guess we're supposed to infer maybe that they're,

[24:27] you know, something's happening, but it is never expressed.

[24:30] No. So back at her office, Governor Bill is says he's officially resigning.

[24:34] I'm going to be secretary of the interior.

[24:37] I have to deal with the fact that Dracula thinks this is an island

[24:40] and is real mad about it.

[24:41] So you're governor until the next election.

[24:43] And she says, hey, before you leave, I need you to get votes

[24:46] for this aid for expectant mothers bill that I want to pass.

[24:49] It's the kind of bill that I think in 2008 was the kind of thing

[24:54] that a liberal Democrat would put a lot of stake into.

[24:56] It's like we need prenatal care and counseling for expectant mothers.

[25:01] Whereas now in 2026, the big issues for Democrats are

[25:05] how do we how do we get a mad king out of the off the throne of the country?

[25:10] How do we how do we stop people from being shot in the streets

[25:12] while by masked thugs?

[25:14] But in 2008, a simpler time.

[25:16] And how do we complain about it in a way where we're not being like shrill

[25:20] or annoying? Yeah, exactly.

[25:23] When when they don't.

[25:24] Well, that's not even started that the.

[25:26] So he tells her, he says, people find you annoying and you need to fix that.

[25:30] Your job is making dumb people not feel dumb.

[25:33] And if you want to get anything accomplished, you've got to do that.

[25:35] And she goes out to greet reporters.

[25:37] The news is already broken.

[25:38] Her husband, Ryan, shows up and twirls her in the hallway.

[25:41] They dance a little bit.

[25:42] Her husband, it's set up here.

[25:43] She's very rigid.

[25:44] She's very noble, but in a way that is off putting to people.

[25:48] And he is just kind of loosey goosey, the fun guy in in the relationship.

[25:52] Flashback to 17 years earlier.

[25:54] Glad we're glad we're flashing back again.

[25:57] Their high school significant other.

[25:59] More like the most complex screenplay structure for just a simple dramedy.

[26:05] It's like as if Memento was just about a dude

[26:09] and like there was no stuff about memory loss.

[26:11] There was nothing about his wife possibly having been murdered.

[26:14] And it was just about a guy going about his day,

[26:17] but still cut up and down like it was the limey, you know, or something like that.

[26:21] So they they they flash back to Helen catching teenage Ryan,

[26:26] who, again, looks like an adult wearing a wig, sneaking out of Ella's bedroom.

[26:30] Helen confronts Ella about it and gives her a little speech about how

[26:32] this is the first time Ella has lied to her

[26:34] when she says that she hasn't slept with this guy or whatever.

[26:37] But everything turns out OK.

[26:38] Their love is undeniable.

[26:40] And while she's walking down the street and Helen yells,

[26:43] did you wear use a Johnny? Yeah.

[26:45] And all the neighbors are like, whoa.

[26:47] And the neighbors were like, who's Johnny?

[26:49] She said, yeah, they're all rocking. Yeah.

[26:52] So Ellen Ryan have a scene where he talks about how great she is.

[26:56] Then she goes to college and he's just showing up all the time

[26:59] pretending to be riding a horse.

[27:01] And she is charmed by this, even though it seemed like the kind of thing

[27:04] a maniac does, like it seemed borderline sociopathic

[27:09] that he just keeps showing up every weekend at college

[27:11] to like goof off in front of her and make her laugh.

[27:13] But I guess when she's down, he was her clown, you know.

[27:17] And so they get married.

[27:18] He buries the hatchet with Helen because he loves Ella so much.

[27:21] And, you know, and they have their wedding ceremony.

[27:23] And I think one thing I liked here, their wedding was believably under attended.

[27:28] There were not a lot of people at the wedding.

[27:30] And I was like, OK, I buy that.

[27:31] This is not a 400 person wedding, something like that.

[27:34] She doesn't have a lot of friends, although everybody loves her.

[27:37] And she doesn't have much family.

[27:38] She's easy to love. She's hard to like.

[27:41] Yeah, I will say this about.

[27:43] So their relationship, like it's one of these cases

[27:46] where he is portrayed as like kind of a doofus,

[27:50] like maybe it's a red flag, maybe even a little bit of a goofus.

[27:53] He's not a gallant, that's for sure.

[27:55] It's a red flag that he's so fixated on her at the beginning, you know.

[28:01] But but his heel turn is so extreme.

[28:04] It's pretty wild.

[28:05] I'm like, I don't know that this is the same man that we were introduced to.

[28:08] No, no. But it's because his heel turn is under the influence of Becky and Baker,

[28:11] his ambitious mother, who's the Lady Macbeth of Rhode Island, I guess.

[28:14] And I have to admit, if Becky and Baker was like, you need to do this,

[28:18] I'd be like, yes, ma'am, I will. I'm sorry. Of course I will.

[28:20] So back to that, I'll have my husband, the lizard.

[28:27] He never got to be the lizard.

[28:28] He was only John Baker.

[28:33] He carries around a two by four and whacks people with it.

[28:35] I go, I go, I'm on, sir.

[28:37] She goes, no, I'm just wearing the work of my other brother, Rick Baker.

[28:43] So back to 2008, which, again, is the present of the movie.

[28:47] People are in favor of Governor Ella.

[28:49] They love the footage of her dancing with her husband in the hallways.

[28:52] Remember, this is 2008 when people liked nice things and when things were

[28:56] people liked being happy, as opposed to now, when people prefer to be angry

[28:59] all the time and he goes, I'll solve this reporter problem.

[29:02] And it turns out Ryan was the one.

[29:04] This is a husband, Ryan, who revealed their lunch sex habit to the reporter.

[29:08] And he says, hey, you got to enjoy this promotion.

[29:10] You got to enjoy it.

[29:11] He seems real creepy at this point to me.

[29:14] Ella calls him.

[29:15] What did he why did he reveal it?

[29:17] Was he just bragging?

[29:18] I think he was just bragging that he had sex.

[29:20] I'm not sure.

[29:21] I'm not quite sure why he did it.

[29:23] I get it.

[29:24] I mean, it seems like he's just kind of like it's like dancing.

[29:26] He's kind of a doof.

[29:27] Maybe he didn't know that he was spilling something.

[29:30] Ness, it's partly dangerous.

[29:33] He's still he's still a slow horse.

[29:34] You know, the he's much slower.

[29:37] Well, actually, you know what it fits with in slow horses.

[29:39] His whole problem is that he's super competent, but he always jumps the gun.

[29:43] He's always he's always too quick, too quick to run into action.

[29:46] So it's kind of similar here.

[29:47] Yeah, Jack Loud is just the guy who does things too quickly, you know?

[29:50] OK, so Ella calls Helen.

[29:53] They briefly argue about Ryan before they cry together again.

[29:55] There's a lot of Ellen and Helen crying together.

[29:57] And I wish the movie made that more of like a running gag.

[30:00] It seems to take it, I think, sincerely each time,

[30:02] but it starts to get funny how often they just cry together.

[30:05] Ella tells Nash she wants him

[30:06] staying on her security details.

[30:08] She does not want the governor's appreciation.

[30:09] Every time you say Nash,

[30:10] I think you're talking about Nash Bridges.

[30:11] I know. Is that weird?

[30:12] No, no, I mean, there is basically just one Nash.

[30:15] I mean, there's Niecy Nash, but Nash Bridges.

[30:17] Come on, John. I mean, there's Graham Nash.

[30:19] Like, there are other Nashes.

[30:19] There are other Nashes, but at this point,

[30:21] if we hear Nash, you think- You think Nash Bridges.

[30:22] Yeah, exactly.

[30:23] Yeah, if you're gonna Nash, you think Bridges.

[30:26] If you're making a trailer for an episode of Nash Bridges-

[30:28] I don't always Nash, but when I do, I Bridges.

[30:32] If you're making a trailer for a show called Nash Bridges,

[30:34] you know it's just people saying Nash over and over again.

[30:37] Here's the thing.

[30:37] You know what?

[30:38] I'll buy it with that because it's Don Johnson, right?

[30:41] As Nash Bridges.

[30:42] If there's anyone who's reached that level of,

[30:44] his character could just have his name

[30:45] said over and over again.

[30:46] Guys. Yeah.

[30:47] Guys, I got a money-making scheme.

[30:50] Okay.

[30:51] We make a documentary about Nashville's bridges,

[30:56] the bridges in the city of Nashville called Nash Bridges.

[31:00] We put it up.

[31:01] Watch the money roll in.

[31:02] It's our own mockbuster.

[31:04] It's a doc mockbuster.

[31:05] You're right, dude,

[31:06] because also Nash Bridges is still a huge hit,

[31:09] a huge current hit.

[31:10] Yeah, it's still enormous.

[31:12] Does Nashville have bridges in it?

[31:13] There must be at least one, right?

[31:15] I've never been there. It's gotta be.

[31:16] It's gotta be, yeah.

[31:17] It's gotta be a bridge.

[31:17] It's like if you have a character named Jag,

[31:19] the whole trailer is gonna be nothing

[31:20] but people saying Jag over and over again.

[31:23] Jag is his job.

[31:23] He's a judge advocate general in the Navy.

[31:25] His name is not Jag.

[31:26] Really?

[31:27] Who turns into a jaguar?

[31:28] You're thinking of the show Dag,

[31:30] starring David Alan Greer.

[31:32] Yeah.

[31:32] Oh.

[31:33] Yeah.

[31:34] He refers to a jaguar,

[31:35] because the show is about the first jaguar

[31:36] ever to serve in the Navy in the United States.

[31:39] They go, I don't know if we should keep him

[31:40] on an aircraft carrier, sir.

[31:41] He is a jaguar.

[31:42] So anyway, so.

[31:44] That was your jaguar.

[31:45] Yeah, yeah.

[31:46] No, it's good.

[31:47] And then, I guess.

[31:47] I don't know what they sound like.

[31:48] I think it's after sex that Ella tells Ryan

[31:50] she doesn't want to move into the governor's mansion

[31:51] right away.

[31:52] And he's clearly disappointed.

[31:53] He wants to live the life of the first gentleman

[31:56] of the state of whatever state this is.

[31:58] He wants to be Todd Palin so badly.

[32:00] And I wonder if that's what the inspiration

[32:02] for this character was.

[32:03] I mean, certainly nothing in the modern world

[32:06] is an inspiration for this movie.

[32:08] It feels like it.

[32:09] It feels like it.

[32:10] Nothing in the modern world is an inspiration

[32:11] for this movie.

[32:12] It feels so far out of time in a way

[32:14] that's really unfortunate.

[32:16] It feels like it's weird because 30 years from now,

[32:18] if anyone watches this,

[32:19] I don't think they'll recognize

[32:20] that it's like a time capsule movie, necessarily.

[32:23] The same way that, I remember it was,

[32:26] what's his face who did,

[32:26] Richard Linklater once, I think,

[32:28] I heard him talk about the movie Some Came Running,

[32:30] which is a movie that it was made in the 50s,

[32:32] but it's set in kind of the late 40s.

[32:34] And for people at the time, they'd be like,

[32:35] oh, this is a period piece,

[32:36] but now it's hard to tell the difference.

[32:38] And I wonder if this kind of feels like

[32:40] it is a period piece,

[32:41] but it's also not that period enough.

[32:44] That like, he's not really saying anything about 2008.

[32:47] It feels more like James Earl Brooks

[32:48] made a James Earl Brooks movie

[32:49] and people were like,

[32:50] this isn't how politics works anymore, James.

[32:52] And he goes, okay, well, it's set in 2008.

[32:53] I don't give a shit.

[32:54] Whatever.

[32:55] Yeah, I mean, it feels like he had a screenplay

[32:56] that he wrote a while back and finally got the chance to,

[33:01] he was like, oh, I'll just put a flashback.

[33:02] I'll have Julie Kavanagh say like,

[33:04] it was a more magical time

[33:06] when we all liked each other still.

[33:08] And I'm like, I don't know if that was true.

[33:10] Holy!

[33:11] Excuse me, Gonzo the Great.

[33:12] This is Julie Kavanagh's part.

[33:15] Aw, shucks.

[33:17] Camilla, let's get out of here.

[33:19] Now, what if, so, okay.

[33:21] So here's what we, here's the bit you need to do, Dan.

[33:23] This is your standup bit.

[33:25] Okay.

[33:26] So.

[33:27] Finally, at age 47, I'm gonna get into standup.

[33:29] Marge Simpson is calling Homer Simpson for phone sex

[33:33] while Gonzo is calling Camilla for phone sex.

[33:35] And the lines get crossed.

[33:36] Suddenly, Gonzo is talking to Homer

[33:38] and Marge is talking to Camilla.

[33:40] And it's a series of misunderstandings

[33:42] because they don't know at first

[33:43] that the lines have been crossed.

[33:44] It's gonna be, yeah, kind of a Newhart situation.

[33:47] Exactly.

[33:47] It's like, well, I call it a double Newhart

[33:49] because you have to do multiple parts.

[33:51] Whereas Newhart would just do one part.

[33:52] And of course, Newhart,

[33:56] he would refer to it as a Shelly Berman, I suppose.

[33:58] Since Shelly Berman said that Bob Newhart stole his act,

[34:01] even though Shelly Berman didn't invent

[34:02] the talking on the telephone act,

[34:04] George Jessel had done one before Shelly Berman did.

[34:07] So anyway, moving back to Ella McKay,

[34:08] this is all very important information.

[34:11] This will all be in your new book,

[34:14] Joke Information to Fall Asleep To.

[34:16] Yes, in my new book, Joke Boring.

[34:19] Had to be dull talking about comedy.

[34:21] So anyway, it's inauguration day.

[34:23] Ella's speech is as honest and strident

[34:26] as it is not poetic.

[34:30] It's long.

[34:30] And the voters love her.

[34:32] They're applauding.

[34:32] The legislators do not like her.

[34:35] They're like, boo.

[34:35] They're literally booing her.

[34:36] Casey is not there.

[34:38] And Ryan is miffed.

[34:38] He's at the bat.

[34:40] And Ryan is miffed that she didn't thank him in the speech.

[34:43] And one of the few jokes that I thought

[34:44] was really funny in this was,

[34:46] the governor has a slip of paper passed to her

[34:48] that says, thank me.

[34:50] And then as the speech goes on,

[34:51] he passes another slip of paper that says,

[34:53] don't mention me.

[34:54] Or just like, mention me, then like, don't mention me.

[34:56] And I thought that was funny.

[34:57] But Ryan is like, you didn't thank me in the speech.

[34:59] So what this tells me is that

[35:01] this movie is actually based on Hillary Swank's Oscar win.

[35:05] When she forgot to thank her husband in her speech.

[35:06] So there's just so many,

[35:08] this is a rich text, a rich tapestry.

[35:10] It's like Ulysses.

[35:11] It's pulling from all these different things.

[35:13] And the annotated Ella McKay will be very,

[35:16] will be very informative.

[35:17] Helpful, yeah.

[35:18] Yeah, so she skips out on the donors meeting

[35:20] so she can see her brother.

[35:22] Her brother, Casey.

[35:23] Can you guys describe Casey for me?

[35:25] What's he like?

[35:26] Like a floppy haired guy.

[35:29] Okay, he's a floppy haired guy.

[35:31] I mean, he's your typical pop culture,

[35:36] like tech guy who's not,

[35:39] you know, who's awkward in society.

[35:41] He-

[35:42] Overstimulated, low impulse control.

[35:44] He has agoraphobia.

[35:45] He's kind of a shut in by choice.

[35:47] He is very clear that he is not an agoraphobic,

[35:49] but that he chooses to be inside his apartment all the time.

[35:51] And he talks with one of these kind of like,

[35:53] you know, your standard-

[35:54] Rhode Island accents, yeah.

[35:55] I'm vaguely East Coast-y, Rhode Island-y.

[35:58] No one else has that accent in the entire movie.

[36:01] But he really pours it on.

[36:03] And she goes to meet him.

[36:05] He plays a phone message from their dad's new girlfriend,

[36:09] who feels surprisingly emotional.

[36:11] And Ella is just kind of starts to,

[36:14] she's just trying to,

[36:15] she won't leave him alone, basically.

[36:16] She's like, why aren't you talking to me?

[36:17] What's going on?

[36:18] What's going, what's going?

[36:19] She accidentally drinks her brother's cannabis drink

[36:21] and also eats his pot cookie.

[36:23] Uh-oh.

[36:24] He's too busy to stop her

[36:25] because he's running his online sports betting advice job.

[36:29] Where he makes $2 million a year.

[36:30] Well, at first he seems to think that she knows

[36:33] what she's drinking,

[36:34] because she's like, there's cannabis stuff all over the can.

[36:38] But of course, she's a square.

[36:40] She doesn't even think about it.

[36:41] And you think this is setting her up for a scene

[36:43] where she has to meet with the donors while high.

[36:45] Instead, no.

[36:46] She says, I'm just going to stay at my brother's house.

[36:48] Phew.

[36:49] Very responsible.

[36:50] Funny scene over it.

[36:51] Yeah.

[36:52] I'm glad we didn't have to sit through

[36:54] that possible comic invention.

[36:55] A scene where she's like talking to somebody

[36:57] and then their head morphs into like a bug head.

[37:00] And they're like, what?

[37:01] Have you smoked pot, Stu?

[37:03] Yeah, all the time.

[37:05] And then it sets up, you know, like outside.

[37:10] Tell us about the scene.

[37:11] Tell us about the real main story of the movie.

[37:13] Yeah.

[37:14] A lot.

[37:15] There's a long scene where Kumail's partner is like,

[37:17] Kumail's partner played by James Albrooks' son.

[37:19] I want-

[37:20] Oh, I didn't know that.

[37:21] He's not bad, he's not bad in this part.

[37:23] No.

[37:24] No, he's good.

[37:25] He's like very keyed in, obsessed with getting overtime

[37:30] because of the extra money they'll get

[37:32] and how like he has problems with alimony

[37:36] and he doesn't have any money to take his kids anywhere.

[37:39] So he just wants the overtime.

[37:40] And Kumail's like, no, no, no, we should just leave,

[37:43] you know, and clock out.

[37:45] But they ended up having a tremendous amount of overtime.

[37:48] And then like they get dressed down for it

[37:50] and Kumail takes the hit.

[37:52] But it's, I saw someone online,

[37:54] I think it was actually Henry Gilbert

[37:56] from the Talking Simpsons podcast was talking,

[37:59] talking about how like this is a real marker

[38:02] of like centrist, like budget hawk Democrats of the time

[38:06] where she's like dressing him down about like-

[38:09] She's like, people are having trouble

[38:11] paying the rent right now

[38:12] and you're squeezing the state for overtime for one night.

[38:16] And it is a, this is one of those scenes where-

[38:19] This guy also needs money.

[38:21] Yeah, but when also we learned so much more

[38:23] about this guy's life than we do about Aunt Helen,

[38:27] than we do about Nash, that like, it's amazing

[38:30] how much time is spent on this character

[38:31] and it means nothing, it goes nowhere.

[38:34] They have this dressing down scene

[38:35] and Nash takes the blame.

[38:36] If anything, it makes him more sympathetic.

[38:39] Yeah, and it's a, I kind of wish

[38:42] if this movie had been about,

[38:44] there's one woman in government who is so noble

[38:46] and so principled that she kind of doesn't see

[38:49] how government really works,

[38:50] which is that everybody is just not in a,

[38:52] and not in a scheming conniving way,

[38:54] but everyone's trying to figure out

[38:55] how to make things work best for themselves.

[38:57] Like, I kind of wish that this was her security detail guy

[39:00] doing this and that her, Julie Kavner

[39:03] had her own little thing on the side that she was doing.

[39:05] Like, I wish that it was, that would at least be,

[39:07] that sounds like a funnier movie to me, you know,

[39:09] that she's kind of oblivious to the low level

[39:12] who gives a shit corruption that's going on.

[39:13] Well, it's certainly more complex

[39:15] if like some of the sympathetic characters

[39:17] are allowed to be, you know, scheming in some way.

[39:21] Yeah.

[39:21] As opposed to there's three noble people

[39:23] in all of Rhode Island, Ellen MacKay, Nash, and Julie Kavner

[39:26] and everyone else is like,

[39:27] but even the people who are kind of corrupt

[39:29] and play games with politics are not that bad.

[39:31] You know, they're not, they're not evil.

[39:32] It's just, which is probably more real.

[39:34] Mainly stupid, yeah.

[39:35] They're mainly, or yeah,

[39:36] or they're just kind of like misguided

[39:38] or something like that.

[39:39] Which again, feels naive in the way that,

[39:41] I hate to get political again,

[39:42] but like the people in the government now,

[39:44] in the federal government are genuinely evil people

[39:46] who want to do bad things.

[39:48] It's not just that they're like misguided

[39:49] and they don't know what they're doing, you know?

[39:50] So anyway, but we spent a lot of time

[39:54] on this overtime subplot,

[39:56] which is two scenes of, not very much.

[39:58] Ryan explores the governor mansion.

[39:59] He loves.

[40:00] But Elle's going to stay at Casey's for the night, and she just lies on his couch and

[40:03] gets high and talks about her feelings.

[40:05] And Casey is so annoyed and does not want to listen to any of this.

[40:08] She goes on a political rant about her pet project, which is Tooth Tooters, which are

[40:13] volunteer dentists in rural areas, I think North Carolina, and she wants to bring that

[40:17] to Rhode Island.

[40:18] And the movie seems to think tooth tooters is such a funny phrase.

[40:21] Later on, Julie Kavner's even like, tooth tooters.

[40:23] It's so fun to say.

[40:24] Admit it, tooth tooters.

[40:25] I mean, her character is high, right?

[40:27] So that would make sense.

[40:28] I think the movie seems to think that we're going to like that too.

[40:32] And Casey reveals he makes a lot of money and he's agoraphobic by choice.

[40:36] He chooses to be a shut-in.

[40:37] But we're going to learn later that there's a real reason why he is afraid of leaving

[40:42] the apartment.

[40:43] And it is a story that I think I read one review that said, would have been left on

[40:47] the cutting room floor for time in any other movie.

[40:50] But we'll get to that one.

[40:52] Ryan's mom, Becky Ann Baker, she's really mad that Ryan didn't get mentioned in the

[40:55] speech.

[40:56] And she's like Lady Macbething him.

[40:58] She's like, you've got to demand a role in the government.

[40:59] And it feels like she's even like it's in the pizza parlor after closed.

[41:04] The pizza parlor they own.

[41:05] Yeah.

[41:06] Yeah.

[41:07] And it feels like she is lit in a way to be evil.

[41:08] Like she she is lit like from below.

[41:12] And this scene has maybe my favorite character in the whole movie, which is Ryan's dad, who

[41:17] she goes, you don't want to be like your father.

[41:18] And he's like, and we reveal he's in the back and goes, what?

[41:21] And she goes, never mind, never mind.

[41:22] And she's leaving, goes, love you.

[41:24] And he's just like this this very well-meaning old man who doesn't seem to who seems perfectly

[41:28] happy folding boxes after hours at a pizza place.

[41:31] You know, I liked him a lot.

[41:33] So the next day, Ella calls a press conference and first she gets mad at Nash and the other

[41:38] guy for racking up their overtime pay.

[41:39] Again, this goes nowhere.

[41:40] Ella tells the press about how she had sex at the office.

[41:44] Ryan is so mad about it.

[41:45] He's like, what?

[41:46] What did you do?

[41:47] And Ella goes to talk to Casey at his place.

[41:49] She learned that Casey is upset because a year ago he told his girlfriend that he only

[41:55] wanted to be with her and he was moving a little too fast and he was afraid that she

[41:59] was going to ghost him.

[42:00] So she changed his phone.

[42:02] So he changed his phone number so that he wouldn't have to think about how she's not

[42:06] calling him.

[42:07] And now it's a year later and he's still fixated on her.

[42:10] And she gives him some advice.

[42:11] And this is, again, it's almost like James Earl Brooks was like the having sex in the

[42:16] government office with your husband at lunch.

[42:19] She didn't even do it during work hours.

[42:20] She did it during lunch.

[42:21] But having that during lunch is such a non-issue that's not really that big a problem.

[42:26] How do we make Casey's problem even less of an issue, even less of a problem than that?

[42:31] How do we de-escalate and de-heighten even more?

[42:34] So how did you guys feel about this revelation that he has been agitated for a year about

[42:39] his inability to talk to this girl he had liked?

[42:42] What was the weird way he expressed it to the-

[42:45] He said something about how when you're dating, you meet a lot of people and he doesn't want

[42:48] to meet anybody else.

[42:49] Like he just wants to date her, something like that.

[42:51] What he said was not as, it was also not, when he repeats it, it doesn't sound as extreme

[42:56] to me.

[42:57] It is moving fast, I guess.

[42:58] I don't know how long they were dating for.

[42:59] Right.

[43:00] But like, it's not like he said, he doesn't even say-

[43:01] Well, he just talks so much about how awkward it was and like, I guess that's awkward, but

[43:06] not-

[43:07] It feels like the shorthand for this would be if he said, I loved, I told her I love

[43:09] her at the end of the first date or something like that.

[43:11] Then I'd be like, oh, okay, I get it.

[43:13] But he, those, the words I love you or I love her never come up.

[43:16] They're never mentioned.

[43:17] So it felt like, I don't know.

[43:19] It seems like he was just asking her to go steady, which is weird for an adult to do

[43:24] kind of.

[43:25] But I usually, I don't know about you guys, but I feel like you just kind of fall into

[43:28] it.

[43:29] You don't usually make a big deal out of it, but I don't know.

[43:31] Well, I mean, I think it's not uncommon to ask, you know, do you want to, I don't want

[43:36] to see anybody else.

[43:37] Yeah, that's true.

[43:38] Do you want to be exclusive?

[43:40] You know?

[43:41] Yes.

[43:42] Or you say, I only want to see other people.

[43:43] You say, I don't want to see anybody else, so I'm going to put a blindfold on when I have

[43:47] sex with other women.

[43:48] And he goes, all right, literally, that makes sense.

[43:50] I mean, you're following the word of what you said, you know, the letter of the law.

[43:54] You're using Duchovny's law, which the company's law was that was the short lived TV show where

[44:00] you would have sex with people with a blindfold on and he's a judge.

[44:05] Yeah.

[44:06] He's also a judge.

[44:07] Yeah.

[44:08] His catchphrase was join me in my chambers.

[44:09] And his other one was justice is blind.

[44:12] Yeah.

[44:13] Time to disrobe.

[44:14] He would say time to take off disrobe.

[44:18] That's what he would say.

[44:19] Oh, OK.

[44:20] And then someone call him and he'd say, new robe, who dis?

[44:23] And they'd be like, I don't understand.

[44:24] That doesn't make sense.

[44:25] Oh, you didn't hear what I said before.

[44:27] It kind of makes it work better, but not really.

[44:30] So it turns out Ella's poll numbers are up.

[44:32] They're calling her Little Miss Nooner.

[44:34] People love the idea that she is getting it on during lunch with her husband.

[44:37] She goes to see her dad narrowly missing a run in with what I think is supposed to be

[44:42] his new girlfriend, but it's never made quite clear.

[44:45] And the voice of her new girlfriend on the phone is Tracy Ullman.

[44:49] And that's not Tracy Ullman.

[44:50] I think that's walking out of the building.

[44:51] So it was one of those it was almost like a moment out of a movie like Vertigo where

[44:55] she's just seeing her.

[44:56] She's seeing her dad's girlfriend everywhere like but it's it it doesn't the moment was

[45:01] kind of strange.

[45:02] Anyway, she tells him, stop calling Casey.

[45:04] And he goes, my girlfriend told me I can.

[45:07] She's going to break up with me unless I apologize to everybody that I've committed misdeeds

[45:12] against.

[45:13] And he has a long list of apologies to make.

[45:15] And she goes, did you cheat on mom when she was dying?

[45:17] And he goes, not really.

[45:18] And she walks out.

[45:19] It's not really is not a good answer for that.

[45:21] Guys, I forget.

[45:22] Is this the last scene with Woody Harrelson?

[45:24] It is not the last scene with resolution on this.

[45:27] We do get a resolution with him.

[45:28] We'll talk about that.

[45:29] There's one at least there's one more big scene between Woody Harrelson and Ella.

[45:33] But he disappears for a while from the movie.

[45:35] And why not?

[45:36] He shouldn't be in the movie.

[45:37] The story does is that this is it's like James Earl Brooks had didn't have a full story,

[45:42] but he had like eight half stories.

[45:44] And he thought that it's like he's making dinner out of just what's in the fridge.

[45:47] He doesn't have a recipe.

[45:49] He didn't have a main idea.

[45:50] But he's like, I'll put in a little bit of pasta, a little bit of the chicken that's

[45:53] left over.

[45:54] I'll put in a little bit of rice.

[45:55] Here's some old gherkins.

[45:56] I'll throw those in.

[45:57] Here's the thing.

[45:58] Like, even in his best movies, there are a lot of threads going on in James Earl Brooks

[46:04] movies.

[46:05] And they don't always like like other movies wouldn't have them.

[46:09] But usually they're tied together, like with some strong central idea that like, I mean,

[46:15] you know, it's something sometimes it just comes in at the end, like terms of endearment,

[46:19] like feel sort of unfocused until everyone has to focus on like the crisis, the crisis

[46:25] on infinite Earths.

[46:26] That's someone getting sick.

[46:27] Someone's dying.

[46:28] Yeah.

[46:29] Yeah.

[46:30] Like broadcast news is brought together kind of by like a thesis statement about the news.

[46:36] But it is it does sort of spiral in a lot of different directions.

[46:38] Like here, it feels like he never found the thing that was going to like tie it all up.

[46:42] Yeah.

[46:43] I think you're right.

[46:44] There's like not a strong theme here.

[46:45] And also in those movies, the characters feel so real.

[46:47] They feel so alive.

[46:49] Even like in terms of dearment, like it's Jeff Daniels, right?

[46:52] Who's in that?

[46:53] Like, oh, no.

[46:54] Or is it John Lithgow?

[46:55] Who plays the who plays the like husband or ex-husband or whatever?

[46:59] Lithgow's in it.

[47:00] I know.

[47:01] I can't remember the whole cast.

[47:02] I got to watch again.

[47:03] I can't remember who's in it and who's not in it.

[47:04] But I feel like even when I say like even the side characters feel like full people,

[47:09] you know, they feel like they're real characters.

[47:10] Daniels and John Lithgow are both in it.

[47:14] Oh, boy.

[47:15] I know they play brothers.

[47:16] That's right.

[47:17] They play twin brothers who who change places.

[47:18] And they're both kind of.

[47:19] Yeah.

[47:20] Yeah.

[47:21] Jeff Daniels is Debra Winger's husband with the name of his name is Flapp Horton.

[47:25] Flapp Horton.

[47:26] You've got to have a good movie if you're going to name your character Flapp Horton.

[47:28] Like that movie's got to be so good.

[47:30] You got to have stones and all that shit.

[47:32] But like those characters feel like real characters.

[47:34] I remember when the trailer came out for Terms of Endearment and it was just people saying

[47:37] Flapp, Flapp, Flapp.

[47:41] Everybody's talking about Flapp Horton.

[47:43] Flapp!

[47:44] Yeah.

[47:45] That's the other thing is a lot of times those commercials, they don't do anymore because

[47:47] they don't have VO.

[47:48] The old ones, they'd have everyone say the name and the VO goes, everybody's talking

[47:51] about so-and-so.

[47:52] It's like, well, yeah, everyone in the movie.

[47:53] I don't understand.

[47:54] Like, you could make a movie about my brother and just have people going, David, David,

[47:59] because they're people who know him.

[48:00] Like that's why we talk about him.

[48:01] We talk to him, you know.

[48:03] But anyway, it's not like you don't open up, you don't turn on the news and people

[48:06] are like, David?

[48:07] You know, I mean, they are, but they're talking about King David.

[48:09] Oh, really?

[48:10] I mean, yeah.

[48:11] Did you hear he's back?

[48:12] He's back in the news again?

[48:13] Yeah.

[48:14] He's back in the news again.

[48:15] Yeah.

[48:16] That's weird.

[48:17] Yeah.

[48:18] People are still mad about him having that affair with Bathsheba.

[48:22] So the, where were we in this thing?

[48:25] Oh, so anyway, so we'll go back.

[48:26] So the cleanest Sheba.

[48:28] Casey gets the courage to leave his apartment.

[48:31] He's going to go call his, his ex-girlfriend.

[48:33] Meanwhile, Ryan confronts Ella.

[48:35] He's like, why did you check with me before you revealed the sex stuff?

[48:38] And they argue and he goes, this marriage isn't working for me.

[48:41] And he's like, he's like, everybody's going to think I have nothing better to do than

[48:44] have sex with my wife in the afternoon.

[48:46] I'm like, yeah, you don't.

[48:49] But it's also like he also runs a pizza chain.

[48:51] Like he has a job.

[48:52] It's not like he's just sitting around a non-traditional work schedule, bro.

[48:57] Take advantage of it.

[48:58] He says, I already took care of it.

[48:59] I gave a check to the reporter to kill the story.

[49:02] And she's like a check.

[49:03] He's like, yeah.

[49:04] Like, why did he ask for a check?

[49:05] Well, because people don't want to carry that much cash around.

[49:07] And he didn't realize because he's a moron that you shouldn't do a payoff and put your

[49:11] name on it.

[49:12] Much like the check to a prostitute that sunk Jerry Springer's political career back when

[49:16] he was the boy mayor of Cleveland.

[49:19] So he says that if she doesn't give him, she gives, oh, he gives her like a little written

[49:25] speech she's supposed to read, which basically says, I'm going to share governing duties

[49:29] with my husband.

[49:30] You get two for one and he's going to be great.

[49:32] You're going to love it.

[49:33] And she goes, so you're going to co-govern the state?

[49:35] And he goes, yes.

[49:36] And if I don't get that, this marriage is over.

[49:38] And she says, good.

[49:39] And he goes, I'm going to give you a messy public divorce.

[49:42] And she goes, if you would, you don't even like me.

[49:45] If you liked me a little bit, you wouldn't even threaten that.

[49:47] And it's like, well, everyone throughout the movie has been telling you, you shouldn't

[49:50] be married to this guy.

[49:51] So it's but it is.

[49:53] But this heel turn is so extreme.

[49:55] It goes from wait, but I really want all the trappings of being a governor's husband.

[49:58] I want to feel important.

[50:00] to look, if I'm not running this state,

[50:03] then we are done, it is over.

[50:05] And it feels like a big leap.

[50:06] And I wish that, again, the movie could have made

[50:09] comic hay out of how big a leap this is,

[50:12] how big his demand has gotten from where it was before,

[50:15] but instead it's treated very seriously,

[50:16] very dramatically, you know.

[50:19] She goes to her first staff meeting,

[50:21] they applaud her and she snaps and goes,

[50:22] don't applaud, don't applaud, and they all feel bad.

[50:24] And then she goes to calm herself down.

[50:26] Casey goes to his ex-girlfriend's house,

[50:28] and this is Ayo Edebiri from The Bear, as Susan, and-

[50:33] She has a very weary affect here.

[50:36] Yes, well-

[50:37] Well, I would too, like, nothing is not earned.

[50:41] How do I make this scene work?

[50:43] How do I make what is a wild scene emotionally coherent?

[50:50] He is so awkward and she is so aggravated,

[50:52] and she's trying so hard to get him out of her apartment.

[50:55] She's like, let's go to this restaurant,

[50:57] and he basically, he seems like a psychopath.

[51:00] And he just is like, you gotta be my girlfriend.

[51:02] And she eventually, under duress, it feels like, says yes,

[51:05] and instantly feels weird about it.

[51:06] And I was like, this whole scene made me feel,

[51:08] I was very upset by it.

[51:09] It made me feel very uncomfortable, yeah.

[51:12] Not only should this scene have been cut for,

[51:15] you know, plot and time reasons,

[51:17] this scene should be cut because it is absolutely unworkable.

[51:20] Like, it wants us to believe that this is, like,

[51:23] just a wacky, young, good-hearted man-

[51:25] He's adorable.

[51:26] Express himself.

[51:27] And what he has done is he has, like,

[51:29] bullied his way back into this woman's apartment,

[51:32] like, to talk about a relationship that ended, like,

[51:35] what, a year ago?

[51:35] A year ago, and ended because he ghosted her, you know?

[51:39] Yeah.

[51:40] He's entirely in the wrong,

[51:42] but he's just supposed to be so kind of cute

[51:43] and adorably awkward and clumsy.

[51:45] And it is, I make the joke about,

[51:47] that Say Anything is a movie about stalking,

[51:49] because she's like, we can't be together.

[51:51] And then he shows up outside her house

[51:53] blasting the song they had sex to,

[51:55] which is a hostile act, I think.

[51:56] But within, but they still have feelings for each other.

[51:59] So within the world of the movie-

[52:00] Wouldn't it be funny if it was a crazier song, though?

[52:02] Like, it was, like-

[52:03] Like, Big Butts and Again, not lying.

[52:07] Or if, what would, yeah, what would-

[52:08] Rock Shaker by Rex & Effect.

[52:09] What would be, I mean,

[52:10] it's gotta be a butt-related song, probably, right?

[52:13] But what would be, or if it was, like,

[52:15] Auld Lang Syne, like, it was, like-

[52:16] Yeah, it's-

[52:17] It's Baby Beluga.

[52:18] Yeah, it's Alex F. by Crazy Frog.

[52:25] That'd be so funny.

[52:26] And you're like, well, that's the,

[52:28] it also has to do with the trauma of that being

[52:30] the song that they lost their virginity to, you know?

[52:34] So, but this, it's,

[52:36] it is taking the uncomfortable kind of subtext of that

[52:39] and making it the text of this scene.

[52:42] And she, the way she is playing it,

[52:43] it really feels like she has been beaten down

[52:45] and not won over.

[52:46] Like, she has really been, like, worn down

[52:48] and is, like, has become a, it's like,

[52:51] within one scene, Stockholm Syndrome,

[52:53] it's like, within one scene, Stockholm Syndrome has set in.

[52:56] And we later see them, there's just a shot of them

[52:58] sitting and eating dinner, laughing.

[53:00] And I, but you see it from outside.

[53:01] And I have to imagine she's like,

[53:02] heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh.

[53:06] Please, heh heh, let me go.

[53:08] Her phone, she's typed 911,

[53:11] and the finger's hovering above the call button.

[53:14] And I think it's a,

[53:16] it's just such a misreading of the emotionality.

[53:19] You have to understand, this kid's a millionaire.

[53:23] That's true, but I don't know if she knows that.

[53:25] He doesn't dress like a millionaire, that's for sure.

[53:27] Wow.

[53:28] You'd think he could afford a haircut.

[53:29] Not every place is L.A., Elliot.

[53:31] We don't all have to show off what we may take.

[53:34] I'm sorry, Stewart.

[53:37] Did you say that?

[53:40] The peacock is peacock?

[53:41] I know.

[53:44] So anyway, Ryan tells the press that Ella was the one

[53:48] who said they should pay off the reporter.

[53:50] Meanwhile, in the staff meeting,

[53:51] it's gone all day.

[53:52] Her staff is literally asleep in their chairs

[53:55] as she rambles on about the programs.

[53:57] The press bursts into the room, knocking Ella over,

[54:00] giving her a concussion, it's said later.

[54:03] Nash gets her out, drives her away.

[54:04] It's a real Kevin Costner,

[54:06] Whitney Houston bodyguard moment.

[54:08] And Ella is like, no, it's not the reporter's fault.

[54:10] Wait, when you say a bodyguard moment,

[54:13] is that because they drop a silk scarf over a katana?

[54:16] Oh, yeah.

[54:17] That's exactly right.

[54:18] That shit was so hot, right?

[54:20] Yeah, well, because they represent the male and female part.

[54:23] It's the sexiest thing to Stewart, a sharp sword.

[54:28] It's a metaphor for the softness of the penis

[54:30] and the hard steel of the vagina, yeah.

[54:34] So Ella excuses the reporter.

[54:37] She's like, no, they're working under hard constraints too,

[54:40] and it's difficult for them.

[54:40] So why did he just drive her into nowhere?

[54:44] Like they didn't have a plan?

[54:46] No, he's just trying to get her away

[54:47] from all those people.

[54:49] Again, it's the kind of thing that, to me,

[54:51] is coded as, if this is a romantic comedy,

[54:54] now I'm gonna get you away from all this noise and hubbub.

[54:57] We're gonna have a moment together,

[54:58] and it's when we're gonna realize

[54:59] our feelings for each other.

[55:00] Talk about my mom falling out of a chair again.

[55:02] I'll tell you another story about my mom

[55:04] falling out of a chair into a pool.

[55:06] But Ella excusing the reporters

[55:08] is one of the things where I'm like, oh, yeah,

[55:10] this is one of the things that was wrong

[55:12] with 2008 liberal democratic thinking was,

[55:15] and I feel like I have this instinct too

[55:17] to look at it from another person's point of view

[55:19] and excuse their behavior and be like,

[55:21] oh, well, they're under pressures too,

[55:23] instead of doing kind of what we need to do now,

[55:25] which is to be like, that's bad, don't do that.

[55:27] Come on.

[55:28] So anyway, but it's supposed to show

[55:30] what a sweet person she is.

[55:32] Casey's date is going great.

[55:34] They're just laughing, like I said.

[55:35] Ella has Nash take her to Helen's,

[55:38] and Ella refuses to let herself scream in frustration.

[55:41] She just won't let us scream out,

[55:42] because if she screams, maybe she'll never stop.

[55:44] Governor Bill shows up with the party leadership,

[55:47] and they all convene at Helen's,

[55:48] and they tell them that Ryan's claims have sunk her.

[55:51] They want her to resign right away.

[55:53] And Albert Brooks takes her outside

[55:55] and gives her ridiculously conflicting,

[55:57] or not conflicting advice,

[55:58] but he's like, you should resign,

[56:00] because the politicians hate you and they'll go after you,

[56:02] but you've got all this leverage,

[56:04] so you should use that leverage to get something.

[56:06] This is a good scene to me.

[56:07] This is like-

[56:08] It's one of the better scenes, for sure.

[56:09] In large part, because Albert Brooks is in it.

[56:12] Yeah.

[56:12] And he knows how to do this sort of thing in general,

[56:16] but also particularly with James L. Brooks' material,

[56:19] he knows how to play it.

[56:20] And it is him as a politician who,

[56:26] unlike Ella McKay, knows what needs to be done

[56:29] to stay a politician.

[56:31] And so he's like, I have to protect my own interests.

[56:33] I cannot help you, but I will wink,

[56:36] like say a thing that might help you.

[56:37] I can think out loud.

[56:39] Well, I think there's a deeper idea in this movie

[56:43] that I wish that it was playing more with,

[56:45] which is that Ella McKay is honest and noble and principled

[56:48] and she gets nowhere with her projects

[56:51] and people don't like her.

[56:52] Whereas Governor Bill, played by Albert Brooks,

[56:55] or Governor Bob, no, give it to Bill,

[56:57] he is painted as a guy-

[56:57] He can play the game.

[56:59] He can play the game and is focused on playing the game

[57:01] and voters love him.

[57:02] He's walking across the street and a guy honks

[57:03] and is like, hey, Governor Bill, we love you.

[57:05] And so it's the idea that in a democracy,

[57:09] you gotta know how to play the game.

[57:10] And I feel like this movie is circling that idea

[57:13] and it's not quite, it kind of gets there at the end,

[57:16] but not quite getting there.

[57:18] But like, that would be a theme.

[57:19] Like, that's a theme for this movie.

[57:20] It would mean jettisoning Casey and his girlfriend.

[57:23] It would mean jettisoning-

[57:24] Oh, that's good stuff.

[57:25] It's so good.

[57:26] It gets to a theme that frankly, I do not care for,

[57:29] at least not at this moment in history,

[57:31] where it's like, well, maybe she can do better

[57:36] outside the government.

[57:37] Like, maybe like she can do good.

[57:39] And it's like, fuck you.

[57:41] This is like how we get so many shitty politicians

[57:44] and so little faith in the government being able to change

[57:48] and like, frankly, conservative thinking of like,

[57:50] oh, it should all be privatized.

[57:53] And also conservative thinking that it should be privatized

[57:55] and voter thinking that, well,

[57:56] all government is scum and slime anyway.

[57:59] So we just gotta tear it all down.

[58:02] We gotta rip it all apart.

[58:03] When in reality, if anything,

[58:04] this movie is a show of a functioning government.

[58:07] I mean, there seem to be no problems in the state.

[58:09] There are things that could be better,

[58:11] but when she comes in, they're not like,

[58:13] we're running out of tax money.

[58:14] Oh, crime is up, da, da, da.

[58:16] It seems like Governor Bill has done a top-notch job

[58:19] of turning this little state into a big success story.

[58:21] Well, he let that whole Nooner scandal

[58:23] happen under his nose.

[58:24] That's not true.

[58:25] When the biggest-

[58:26] It really should be laid at his feet.

[58:27] I mean, when the biggest story in the state is,

[58:29] one, new governor dances with husband in hallway,

[58:33] and then two, new governor had sex with husband at lunch

[58:36] on government property.

[58:36] Like, this state is doing great.

[58:38] Like, there are no problems in this state right now.

[58:41] And when you can make $2 million a year

[58:43] just advising people on sports betting,

[58:45] then you know what?

[58:46] The economy's working, right?

[58:48] What's his platform, like Patreon or something?

[58:50] What's he doing?

[58:51] I know he has a lot of computer screens with graphs on them,

[58:53] but I don't really know how he's working otherwise.

[58:55] Yeah, maybe he has a newsletter.

[58:56] Every time he boots it up, he's like, I'm in.

[59:00] He just pours himself a glass of wine,

[59:01] dances around while he hacks into the system.

[59:04] Yeah, exactly.

[59:05] So, that's a swordfish reference.

[59:08] I've never seen it.

[59:09] Don't admit that, we're gonna screen it.

[59:11] At Nighthawk Prospect Park.

[59:15] It was my way of setting you up to plug it.

[59:17] I don't know when the, well, I can't plug it.

[59:19] I don't know when the date is.

[59:20] It's a Thursday coming up in March.

[59:22] And there's no way of knowing what Thursday is?

[59:24] No possible way.

[59:25] Well, Stuart's on it.

[59:26] I'm continuing to talk.

[59:27] I'm vamping, like Dracula.

[59:28] Thursday, March 26th.

[59:31] So, you're vamping Dracula, so I was like,

[59:33] well, they're not ready yet,

[59:35] so let me just tell you about what else

[59:37] is going on around the castle.

[59:40] I've seen swordfish, so I'll play the role of the expert,

[59:43] and Stuart will play the role of funny novice guy.

[59:47] So, he's your apprentice.

[59:48] It's a real, what's that Game of Thrones show?

[59:50] The guy and the kid, the knight and the stuff?

[59:53] The guy and the kid, the knight and the stuff.

[59:55] The Knight of the Seven Kingdoms?

[59:56] Yeah, that's what it is, Knight of the Seven Kingdoms.

[59:58] Based on the hedge knight?

[1:00:00] and the other Dunkin' Egg stories?

[1:00:02] Yeah, I haven't watched it yet.

[1:00:03] So anyway-

[1:00:04] I could go for a Dunkin' Egg right about now.

[1:00:06] So Ella says, I'm not gonna resign

[1:00:09] unless you pass these programs

[1:00:11] that I've wanted throughout the movie.

[1:00:12] That's right, the prenatal care.

[1:00:14] That's right, tooth tutors.

[1:00:16] And Ella's dad shows up and says, please forgive me.

[1:00:19] And she goes, no, I'm not going to.

[1:00:21] And Julie Kavner says, sometimes not forgiving someone

[1:00:23] can be just as satisfying as forgiving them.

[1:00:26] And Helen and Ella talk about their anger at Ryan

[1:00:29] and they finally scream together.

[1:00:31] Let me tell you, not a surprise.

[1:00:33] Jamie Lee Curtis is good at screaming.

[1:00:34] You know what?

[1:00:35] Has she ever made a movie where she screams a lot?

[1:00:37] She's one of the real queens of screams.

[1:00:41] She's one of the original queens of screams.

[1:00:43] Did you see that tour?

[1:00:44] Yes, it was amazing.

[1:00:46] I got a headache after a while, I gotta admit.

[1:00:48] But still, it's worth it.

[1:00:49] If you don't get a headache at the Scream Queens Tour,

[1:00:50] you're not doing it right.

[1:00:51] Heather Langenkamp, Jamie Lee Curtis,

[1:00:55] Linnea Quigley, Barbara Crampton.

[1:00:57] They did an amazing job.

[1:01:01] It was a great show.

[1:01:02] Three hours, I don't know how they.

[1:01:04] Yeah.

[1:01:05] The documentary had to cut it down,

[1:01:06] so it's not the full experience.

[1:01:08] The documentary is what we directed about it.

[1:01:10] We, of course, were in the splash zone,

[1:01:11] so we were covered in blood and I guess saliva.

[1:01:14] Yeah.

[1:01:15] It was like a guar concert.

[1:01:19] So as they scream together,

[1:01:22] Ryan's pizza place is closed for health reasons

[1:01:24] and then he's arrested for resisting.

[1:01:26] So this seems like they're using the tools of the state

[1:01:28] to exact retribution on a private citizen.

[1:01:32] Again, might have been a funnier idea

[1:01:34] at a different point in history

[1:01:35] than the one we're living in right now.

[1:01:38] Ella gets the program she wanted

[1:01:39] and she starts a legal aid office

[1:01:41] to help people from getting evicted.

[1:01:43] And she and Nash is working there,

[1:01:44] Julie Kavner's working there,

[1:01:45] and she announces, Nash, pass her the numbers,

[1:01:47] that they've saved 9,000 people from being evicted

[1:01:50] or something like that.

[1:01:51] It was like some odd number and I was like,

[1:01:54] this feels like a weird information thing

[1:01:57] to just hot off the press information.

[1:02:00] Yeah, why not celebrate once you hit an even,

[1:02:04] big, round number?

[1:02:06] Yeah, maybe they do it every time

[1:02:08] and people are kind of sick of it.

[1:02:09] Yeah, it's possible.

[1:02:10] They're like, all right, okay, another number.

[1:02:12] They gotta announce it every time.

[1:02:13] And then-

[1:02:14] 9,001!

[1:02:16] That sounded like Dracula was vamping, exactly.

[1:02:19] Why don't we count for a while, everybody?

[1:02:21] 9,002, 9,003, are you ready yet?

[1:02:25] Has a Muppet ever done this bit before?

[1:02:27] I'm the first vampire to count, right?

[1:02:31] And Julie Kavner ends it with some more voiceover.

[1:02:36] She says, there's no opposite word for trauma,

[1:02:38] but hope comes close.

[1:02:40] And I was like, it made me want to take the movie's face

[1:02:42] in my hands and just go-

[1:02:43] And it floats.

[1:02:43] Oh, adorable movie.

[1:02:44] Oh, naive, sweet, sweet movie.

[1:02:47] You don't know, yeah.

[1:02:49] And that's the story of Ella McKay, guys.

[1:02:52] Ella McKay.

[1:02:53] It's a story of a simpler time when politics was hopeful

[1:02:57] and sex scandals were adorable.

[1:02:59] And you could bully-

[1:03:00] And skexies were all over the place.

[1:03:01] Skexies were adorable.

[1:03:02] A sexy sex scandal?

[1:03:03] Well, that's why the Lord High Chamberlain

[1:03:05] didn't get the job.

[1:03:06] A sexy skexy?

[1:03:08] That was that Beatles song.

[1:03:09] Sexy skexy.

[1:03:10] Sexy skexy, yeah.

[1:03:11] Look what you've done.

[1:03:12] You hit a stone with a sword in front of everyone.

[1:03:14] Ooh, sexy skexy.

[1:03:17] And then they're like, this will make more sense later.

[1:03:20] I've been working on a song with me friend, Jim Henson.

[1:03:29] Notable cockney accent from these Liverpudlians.

[1:03:33] It's a thin line.

[1:03:34] It's a thin line.

[1:03:36] Oi, mate, I'm one of the Beatles, I am.

[1:03:38] Hello, hello, hello.

[1:03:40] Hello, hello, Johnny Lennon here

[1:03:41] with a few little tunes for you.

[1:03:46] Yeah, Ella McKay.

[1:03:47] I'll just run up the apple and pears

[1:03:49] and get me guitar.

[1:03:53] So guys, we talked a lot about Ella McKay.

[1:03:55] It feels like a movie without a center to me.

[1:03:57] There were so many times during that,

[1:03:59] when I was watching it, I was like,

[1:04:00] what is this movie about?

[1:04:02] I hate to say it, because James Earl Brooks

[1:04:04] in other movies has been masterful.

[1:04:07] And he's created so much that I love,

[1:04:09] but it felt like one of those movies where you're like,

[1:04:13] I think this is like a simulation of a movie.

[1:04:16] Like it doesn't feel like a real full movie, you know?

[1:04:20] Indeed.

[1:04:21] When I think, I mean, I think, yeah,

[1:04:23] I guess we're in final judgments.

[1:04:23] Yeah, we're getting into final judgments.

[1:04:25] Let me just introduce it

[1:04:25] and then we can give our summary feelings.

[1:04:29] Is this a good, bad movie, a bad, bad movie,

[1:04:31] or a movie we kind of like?

[1:04:32] Stuart, you're in the middle of a sentence, so continue.

[1:04:34] I was just gonna say, it feels like a movie

[1:04:36] that was probably an idea or a screenplay

[1:04:38] that he'd had for a little bit,

[1:04:39] and that he felt like he wanted to make a movie,

[1:04:43] and that he wanted to inject some kind of his own perception

[1:04:50] of what we've lost in politics,

[1:04:53] and try to provide some kind of a hope,

[1:04:56] some kind of a, like, wasn't it better back in the day?

[1:04:58] And also, you know,

[1:04:59] get some friends together to make a movie.

[1:05:02] It doesn't work.

[1:05:03] I think it's a bad, bad movie,

[1:05:05] but there's some weird stuff in it, like a sex scarf, and-

[1:05:10] Yeah, I'm gonna give it a marginal-

[1:05:13] When the most notable thing about the movie

[1:05:14] is that someone wears a scarf while having sex,

[1:05:16] then I feel like the movie is lacking a certain substance.

[1:05:19] It is notable, yeah, yeah.

[1:05:20] I'm gonna give it a marginal kind of like.

[1:05:22] On Letterboxd, so usually on Letterboxd,

[1:05:26] the three stars is the lowest I would give a movie that I-

[1:05:28] Any movie.

[1:05:29] I would recommend to someone.

[1:05:32] Like, that's the, yeah, I like this enough

[1:05:34] that I would say, yeah, it's worth watching, or whatever.

[1:05:37] I gave this two-

[1:05:37] I mean, it's the least you'll give a movie

[1:05:38] that you recommend for watching on its own.

[1:05:40] For masturbation purposes,

[1:05:41] you'll recommend any number of one-

[1:05:42] Sure, it's all over the spectrum.

[1:05:43] Two-star movies.

[1:05:44] Yeah, yeah.

[1:05:45] Mm-hmm.

[1:05:46] But I gave this two and a half stars and a heart

[1:05:48] to indicate, like, yeah, it doesn't work,

[1:05:51] but I'm sort of fond of it.

[1:05:53] Like we said before, I wish there were more movies like this.

[1:05:56] There are scenes within it that work.

[1:05:58] Like, there are people that I enjoy seeing.

[1:06:01] I have a, I wasn't mad at this movie.

[1:06:04] Like, there was stuff in it that I enjoyed,

[1:06:07] but, like, I do wish it had any kind of center to it.

[1:06:11] Yeah.

[1:06:12] Like, it doesn't seem to know what it's about.

[1:06:13] It doesn't seem to know what it's about.

[1:06:14] It's not funny, and it's not,

[1:06:16] it doesn't do the things that James Earl Brooks does best

[1:06:19] in his best work, which is being funny and being heartfelt

[1:06:22] in a genuinely, like, kind of emotional

[1:06:24] to the point of tear-jerking way.

[1:06:26] But it feels- Yeah.

[1:06:27] Like real emotions.

[1:06:28] And it's, I want to separate my appreciation

[1:06:31] for the motives behind making a movie like this

[1:06:34] from my depreciation of the actual movie.

[1:06:36] Is I wish they made more movies like this

[1:06:38] so that a movie this poor did not have to be

[1:06:41] the standard bearer for this kind of movie

[1:06:43] at this point right now.

[1:06:44] I appreciate the thinking behind it.

[1:06:47] I love so much of James Earl Brooks' work,

[1:06:49] but this is, it's sometimes a great artist tries something

[1:06:53] and it doesn't work, and this is one of those times,

[1:06:55] you know.

[1:06:56] Sometimes a great notion is not good.

[1:07:00] And sometimes a great lotion really helps your skin.

[1:07:03] Really helps your skin.

[1:07:04] Hi, welcome to Ellie Kaelin's K-Lotions.

[1:07:07] This is my new company that makes lotions just for you

[1:07:11] by making them just for me.

[1:07:13] My skin is the default human universal skin.

[1:07:15] And so any lotion that works for me

[1:07:17] will work for any human being.

[1:07:19] If it doesn't work for you, you're using it wrong.

[1:07:21] That's what K-Lotions promise.

[1:07:22] Especially in those special areas.

[1:07:24] Anyways.

[1:07:25] All the special areas, your right armpit,

[1:07:27] right underneath your nose, the back of your neck,

[1:07:31] right under your head where it kind of connects

[1:07:33] with the rest of your head.

[1:07:34] Yeah, exactly.

[1:07:35] Since we're in sort of a fake sponsor zone,

[1:07:39] let's talk about some real sponsors.

[1:07:41] All right, let's do that.

[1:07:42] I mean, K-Lotions is not paying for this.

[1:07:43] Yeah.

[1:07:44] Yeah, they aren't paying for this, but you know who is.

[1:07:46] This podcast is brought to you in part by Squarespace.

[1:07:50] It's the place where you can get everything you need

[1:07:53] to offer services online, get paid online,

[1:07:56] do it all in one place with professional on-brand invoices,

[1:08:00] online payments, it gives you helpers,

[1:08:04] aids to streamline your workflow,

[1:08:07] stuff like built-in appointment scheduling,

[1:08:09] email marketing tools, all the sorts of things

[1:08:12] that you need if you want to have a home on the web.

[1:08:15] And it also offers-

[1:08:16] Dan, if I could butt in here, I just wanna say,

[1:08:18] to put it into real world terms

[1:08:19] that everyone will understand,

[1:08:21] let's say you're a shut-in.

[1:08:23] Yeah.

[1:08:23] You wanna start your sports betting advice business.

[1:08:26] You're gonna need a website.

[1:08:27] You're gonna need a home on the web to do that.

[1:08:29] Squarespace is what you can use to make that website.

[1:08:33] And then you can make up to $2 million a year,

[1:08:34] according to this movie.

[1:08:35] According to LMK, you know, not-

[1:08:38] That's $2,800.

[1:08:39] Not us.

[1:08:39] No.

[1:08:40] Not us, no, we don't know.

[1:08:42] But yeah, if you wanna make that website,

[1:08:44] you are able to with their complete library

[1:08:46] of professionally designed and award-winning templates.

[1:08:50] It's got options for every sort of website you might want,

[1:08:54] intuitive drag-and-drop editing, beautiful styling options,

[1:08:58] visual design effects.

[1:08:59] You don't have to have experience in coding.

[1:09:01] You can just use their web builder.

[1:09:04] So head to squarespace.com slash flop for a free trial.

[1:09:08] And when you are ready to launch,

[1:09:09] use offer code FLOP to save 10% off your first purchase

[1:09:13] of a website or domain.

[1:09:16] You know what?

[1:09:17] We've got other sponsors too.

[1:09:19] In fact, we've got one of my favorite sponsors for the show.

[1:09:22] Other sponsors don't listen to me say that.

[1:09:23] That's right, it's Factor.

[1:09:25] Look, we're all aware, I've talked about this before.

[1:09:28] Food, I like eating it.

[1:09:30] I need to eat it.

[1:09:31] It keeps my body alive.

[1:09:33] And if it tastes good, so much the better.

[1:09:35] Here's the thing I don't like having to do,

[1:09:37] preparing that food for myself.

[1:09:39] It's something I'm not good at.

[1:09:41] I don't enjoy it, but sometimes I need to do it.

[1:09:44] I'm like, there's gotta be a way.

[1:09:46] There's gotta be a way that I could have

[1:09:48] quality functional ingredients food that's delicious,

[1:09:51] that gives me all the nutrients or proteins

[1:09:53] and things that I need.

[1:09:53] There's gotta be a way.

[1:09:54] Help me.

[1:09:56] Somebody help me.

[1:09:57] And you know who heard my call?

[1:09:58] Factor.

[1:10:00] Having a busy schedule is no longer a good excuse

[1:10:02] for not eating fully prepared, balanced meals.

[1:10:04] They can be ready in two minutes, no planning, no cooking.

[1:10:07] If you are a lazy guy like me who likes to eat food

[1:10:10] in order to stay alive, then Factor is the place to do it.

[1:10:14] It's, the food is, it's really good ingredients,

[1:10:16] it tastes really good, it heats up easy,

[1:10:19] and when you have it, at least in my opinion,

[1:10:21] it doesn't feel like food that you've taken out

[1:10:23] of your fridge or freezer and then eaten.

[1:10:26] Like it, and then just heat it up.

[1:10:27] Like it feels like you got a restaurant meal

[1:10:30] or like you cooked it yourself and knew how to cook.

[1:10:32] That's the thing.

[1:10:33] If I knew how to cook, I would cook meals like Factor.

[1:10:36] I don't know how to cook though.

[1:10:37] So thankfully, Factor's there.

[1:10:38] It features quality, functional ingredients,

[1:10:40] including lean proteins, colorful veggies.

[1:10:43] You want veggies with color in them, right?

[1:10:45] You don't want veggies that are gray,

[1:10:46] gray-lipped British veggies.

[1:10:49] You don't want those, actually.

[1:10:50] Britain has some great veggies, they have great peas there.

[1:10:52] But whole food ingredients and healthy fats.

[1:10:55] There's a hundred rotating,

[1:10:57] there's a hundred rotating weekly meals

[1:10:58] to keep things fresh and delicious

[1:11:00] all through the winter and beyond.

[1:11:02] You don't have to just keep ordering the same thing

[1:11:04] over and over again.

[1:11:05] There's a lot of great choices.

[1:11:06] It's always fresh.

[1:11:07] It's never frozen when it comes to you.

[1:11:09] And it's ready in about two minutes.

[1:11:10] It takes so little time.

[1:11:12] I've talked about it before.

[1:11:13] Factor is a big hit in our house.

[1:11:15] Often, I will have it,

[1:11:17] planning to eat it for lunches when I'm working

[1:11:19] and find that it's gone because my wife has taken it

[1:11:22] to eat her lunch at work and have Factor food.

[1:11:25] And it just means we need to get more Factor stuff.

[1:11:27] I should just order more.

[1:11:28] Anyway, I like this product.

[1:11:30] I use it.

[1:11:31] I think you should too.

[1:11:33] And it just, it solves the problem I need,

[1:11:35] which is food without cooking.

[1:11:36] So head to factormeals.com slash flop 50 off

[1:11:40] and use the code flop50off.

[1:11:42] That's factormeals.com slash F-L-O-P five zero,

[1:11:45] the numerals O-F-F.

[1:11:47] And use the code flop50off, F-L-O-P five zero O-F-F

[1:11:52] to get 50% off and free breakfast for a year.

[1:11:56] It's the most important meal of the day, everybody.

[1:11:58] And you can get it free for a year.

[1:12:01] This offer is only valid for new Factor customers

[1:12:03] with code and qualifying auto-renewing subscription purchase.

[1:12:06] Make healthier eating easy with Factor.

[1:12:09] We've also got a Jumbotron.

[1:12:12] This message is for Sarah, last name withheld.

[1:12:15] And it is from Ben, last name withheld.

[1:12:19] Happy 40th birthday, Sarah.

[1:12:21] I have been lucky enough to be your friend

[1:12:24] for more than 25 years.

[1:12:26] I love your enthusiasm.

[1:12:27] You are ruthless settlers of Catan gameplay.

[1:12:30] The laughs we have shared, your hatred of sunburns

[1:12:34] and your obsession with bidets.

[1:12:37] I hope your next 40 years will be filled

[1:12:39] with 1000s of laughs and 100s of bidets.

[1:12:45] That's very sweet, very sweet and very hygienic.

[1:12:47] So many bidets.

[1:12:49] Usually you can do with one or two.

[1:12:52] I don't know, I'd burn mine out pretty quick.

[1:12:54] Yeah, they get overused.

[1:12:55] They put in work.

[1:12:58] Dan, can I mention some things of my own

[1:12:59] that I would like to promote?

[1:13:00] Sure, why not?

[1:13:01] As mentioned earlier, my new comic book,

[1:13:02] Barbarian Behind Bars from Mad Cave Studios

[1:13:05] is on comic book store shelves now.

[1:13:07] I am reuniting with my Maniac of New York artist,

[1:13:09] Andrea Moody, and it's really cool.

[1:13:11] It's the story of a barbarian from a fantasy world

[1:13:14] who lands on Earth, gets thrown in jail.

[1:13:17] Nobody can speak his language.

[1:13:18] They don't know who he is.

[1:13:19] How is his public defender gonna defend him

[1:13:21] and what happens when the mystic evils

[1:13:24] that have followed him to this world

[1:13:26] start causing chaos in the prison?

[1:13:29] So that's Barbarian Behind Bars.

[1:13:30] I think it's really fun.

[1:13:31] I think you'll like it.

[1:13:32] It's pretty violent.

[1:13:33] So if you don't like seeing guys getting into fights

[1:13:35] and stuff getting hurt, then you should still read it.

[1:13:39] Anyway, I've got a couple other things.

[1:13:40] I wanna remind you that my book, Joke Farming,

[1:13:42] How to Write Comedy and Other Nonsense

[1:13:44] from the University of Chicago Press is still available

[1:13:46] if you wanna learn how jokes work,

[1:13:48] how to write them, what my writing process is

[1:13:50] for writing jokes that has served me well

[1:13:52] low these 20 years or so of professional joke writing,

[1:13:55] then pick it up.

[1:13:55] It's called Joke Farming.

[1:13:56] It's available everywhere that you can buy a book.

[1:13:58] I'm still writing Harley Quinn for DC Comics.

[1:14:02] As of this recording, the issue that came out most recently,

[1:14:04] which is issue 59, where Harley goes out on a date

[1:14:07] with her villain nemesis Althea Clang,

[1:14:10] the villainous land developer that she's been fighting,

[1:14:14] has come out.

[1:14:15] That's the most recent issue, and I'm really proud of it.

[1:14:16] I think it's my favorite issue of the run.

[1:14:18] I really love it.

[1:14:19] I'm really happy with how it came out,

[1:14:20] and I'd recommend it.

[1:14:21] That's Harley Quinn on store shelves now,

[1:14:24] and why not check out my other podcast, Clueless,

[1:14:27] which is a puzzle podcast through the Smart List Network.

[1:14:29] Wait, I have one more thing.

[1:14:30] Wait, wait, wait.

[1:14:31] I have one more thing.

[1:14:32] Wait, I just realized I have one more thing.

[1:14:33] I have one more thing.

[1:14:34] Yeah.

[1:14:35] I think my Hercules comic series,

[1:14:37] my Disney Hercules comic series,

[1:14:39] they're releasing a collection of the first six issues,

[1:14:42] and if that sells well enough,

[1:14:44] maybe we'll be able to print the next six issues,

[1:14:46] which are written, and which will complete the story

[1:14:49] started in that book.

[1:14:50] So pick it up so that you can read

[1:14:51] the end of the story eventually.

[1:14:52] I saw there was a Kickstarter for that,

[1:14:54] but I didn't see how.

[1:14:55] How does one just get the thing

[1:14:57] without being a Kickstarter funder?

[1:14:59] I think the Kickstarter was to get it going.

[1:15:01] I think it's gonna be available in stores also.

[1:15:03] Yeah.

[1:15:09] Hey, it's TV Chef Fantasy League.

[1:15:11] You know, the podcast where we watch

[1:15:12] cooking competition shows,

[1:15:14] and we treat them like fantasy sports.

[1:15:16] Right now, we're getting ready for Top Chef Carolinas.

[1:15:19] We spend all year covering these competitions,

[1:15:21] but now it's time for the main event.

[1:15:23] The apex predator of competitive cooking television shows.

[1:15:27] Tune in, draft a team, and play along.

[1:15:29] With your hosts, Sierra Cotto.

[1:15:31] Mike Cavill on.

[1:15:32] And Ify Wadiwe.

[1:15:34] New episodes every week at MaximumFun.org

[1:15:36] or wherever you get your podcasts.

[1:15:39] Wonderful is a podcast where we talk about things we like.

[1:15:41] That's hard to sell in a promo like this,

[1:15:43] so we've enlisted the help of piano rock superstar,

[1:15:45] Billy Joel, to tell you about some of the topics we've covered.

[1:15:48] Take it away, real Billy Joel.

[1:15:50] ♪ Diddy Rock's been on like Zion, Wollstone Show, Circle Time,

[1:15:54] ♪ Sega Dreamcast, Caesar salad, Tower of Annoyed.

[1:15:57] ♪ Keepy Uppy, Time Capsules, Wayne's World, Cheese Bowls,

[1:16:00] ♪ Wallace Stevens, Donkey Kong, Fun Size Almond Toy.

[1:16:04] ♪ Donkey Kong, Fun Size Almond Toy.

[1:16:06] ♪ They didn't start the podcast.

[1:16:09] ♪ Except that's not true, they didn't 22.

[1:16:12] ♪ They didn't start the podcast.

[1:16:15] ♪ No, they actually did, that was in fact a fib.

[1:16:19] Listen to Wonderful every Wednesday on MaximumFun.org

[1:16:22] or wherever you get your podcasts.

[1:16:24] Thanks, real Billy Joel.

[1:16:25] No problem, Griffin.

[1:16:27] Let us turn to letters from listeners like you.

[1:16:32] This first letter is from Graham, last name withheld.

[1:16:36] Cracker.

[1:16:39] He's never heard that one before.

[1:16:41] I have a fascination with movies

[1:16:42] that were received poorly by the public upon release

[1:16:45] but became classics over the years.

[1:16:47] Growing up, I had always known

[1:16:48] Jordan Carpenter's The Thing as a sci-fi horror classic

[1:16:52] but was surprised to discover it was hated

[1:16:54] by critics and audiences when it hit cinemas in 1982.

[1:16:58] The quote, official explanation is that it suffered

[1:17:01] from comparison to E.T., but I personally don't buy this.

[1:17:04] Surely audiences wouldn't expect the aliens

[1:17:06] in a horror film to be friendly.

[1:17:09] Showgirls and Starship Troopers,

[1:17:11] both directed by Paul Verhoeven,

[1:17:12] were considered misogynistic

[1:17:13] and fascistic respectively on release

[1:17:16] but have been positively reevaluated

[1:17:19] as satires in subsequent years.

[1:17:22] Why this is obvious now and not back in the 90s.

[1:17:25] What got me started on this train of thought

[1:17:26] was of all things, a goofy movie.

[1:17:29] It received tepid reviews when it was released

[1:17:31] and I myself remember watching it shortly

[1:17:33] after it came out and being unimpressed.

[1:17:35] But it has since gone on to be a beloved entry

[1:17:38] in the Disney catalog, a touching story

[1:17:40] about a father-son relationship

[1:17:42] with some excellent tunes to boot.

[1:17:44] I rewatched it recently and found myself enjoying it

[1:17:46] much more than I remember doing so as a kid.

[1:17:50] So what films can you think of that audiences

[1:17:52] or yourselves reacted to poorly when it came out

[1:17:55] but went on to be appreciated later?

[1:17:57] And why were the movie's qualities

[1:17:59] not apparent to audiences from the start?

[1:18:01] Keep on flopping, Graham.

[1:18:03] I wanna say a few things about the movies

[1:18:04] that were referenced here.

[1:18:07] You hate all of them.

[1:18:08] Well, I like, so the thing, I remember,

[1:18:11] I feel like Ebert floated this like E.T. theory.

[1:18:14] I don't know that that was widely like the issue.

[1:18:17] I think that with the thing, part of it was like

[1:18:20] critics of the time were like, you're remaking a classic.

[1:18:24] And they're like, I like the thing from another world

[1:18:26] but I don't think it's like an unassailable movie

[1:18:28] that we can't remake.

[1:18:30] But I think that there have been fewer remakes

[1:18:32] at that time in Hollywood.

[1:18:34] They were viewed as more of like a full scourge

[1:18:39] by the critical class than like now people

[1:18:42] have just buckled under and they're like,

[1:18:44] I guess this is what we're getting.

[1:18:45] So if one's good, then we'll say it's good.

[1:18:48] But I think that was a large part of it maybe.

[1:18:50] I think also it was a, I mean,

[1:18:53] it is providing video nasty thrills on a big budget

[1:18:58] at a major release.

[1:18:59] And I think critics were not ready for that.

[1:19:01] I think-

[1:19:02] Kind of a bleak ending.

[1:19:03] And it's bleak.

[1:19:03] And I think they were, I think the fact that it's bleak

[1:19:06] and dark and that it is gross, and I think in a great way,

[1:19:08] I think it's my second favorite John Carpenter movie

[1:19:11] but I think it's his best movie.

[1:19:14] I think they just like were not tuned to it.

[1:19:17] It's similar to when Bonnie and Clyde came out

[1:19:19] and the big story was how like it got a very bad review

[1:19:23] in the New York Times and Pauline Kael's first review

[1:19:26] I think was not too good for it.

[1:19:27] And then later she re-saw it and re-evaluated it

[1:19:30] but it was partly because the youth of America

[1:19:33] among other things like really took to it.

[1:19:35] And it sometimes the critics are just not ready

[1:19:37] for something that they're not used to.

[1:19:39] That's just that they're people too.

[1:19:41] Well, I wanna say similarly with a Goofy movie,

[1:19:43] I think that it was looked at as like,

[1:19:44] oh, like this cheap TV animation

[1:19:48] is being released by Disney.

[1:19:51] Like it felt like there's a context it was in

[1:19:54] where like they were devaluing something that like,

[1:19:57] yeah, it was not as like fully animated as the.

[1:20:00] big Disney things, but it's a pretty well done film

[1:20:03] and it's delivering something different.

[1:20:04] It's delivering like a story about kind of like

[1:20:07] a modern teen and his dad.

[1:20:09] I mean, sure, they're like both dog men,

[1:20:11] but it's like providing a different thing

[1:20:14] that I think over time, people appreciated that.

[1:20:17] And I think that so much of this has to do

[1:20:19] with like context like that.

[1:20:21] For like the first thing that springs to my mind

[1:20:23] in this area is the Big Lebowski,

[1:20:25] which was-

[1:20:26] Yeah, that's what I was gonna mention too.

[1:20:27] It was dismissed, you know, I liked it when I first saw it.

[1:20:30] I was like, what are you guys talking about?

[1:20:32] But like, it had a hard time.

[1:20:33] And I think part of it was it came right after Fargo.

[1:20:37] Fargo, yeah.

[1:20:38] And people were expecting a certain thing

[1:20:40] out of the Coens.

[1:20:41] Like, okay, well now they're like making Oscar plays

[1:20:45] or whatever, you know?

[1:20:46] And it's like, no, they're making the same sort

[1:20:47] of silly stuff they've been making for a while.

[1:20:50] Well, there's a, with the Coen brothers there,

[1:20:53] it took a long time, I think, for critics to understand

[1:20:55] that the Coen brothers, there is a unifying feel

[1:20:58] through their movies, but it doesn't mean

[1:20:59] they just make the same kind of movie over and over again.

[1:21:01] And it was, and I think they did see Big Lebowski

[1:21:05] as like, why are these artists wasting their talent

[1:21:09] on this pointless goofiness, you know?

[1:21:12] And then when the Coen brothers made a Goofy movie,

[1:21:14] it was the same thing over again.

[1:21:16] That they were like, why are the Coen brothers

[1:21:17] wasting their time on this animated movie

[1:21:19] about Goofy and his son?

[1:21:20] Because they didn't mean that one too.

[1:21:22] But it all comes down to, I think,

[1:21:24] with audiences, I think sometimes it is the way a movie,

[1:21:27] I think you're right, Dan, it's context.

[1:21:29] It's sometimes the way a movie is presented and marketed.

[1:21:31] If the Big Lebowski is presented as

[1:21:33] from the makers of Fargo, you're gonna expect

[1:21:35] it's gonna be like Fargo.

[1:21:36] If a movie like Starship Troopers is presented as,

[1:21:40] you know, just an action movie,

[1:21:42] then I think what's amazing to me is how few

[1:21:46] of the reviewers understood the purpose

[1:21:48] of Starship Troopers and took it at face value

[1:21:50] and were like, Verhoeven doesn't seem to realize

[1:21:53] he's made a pro-Nazi movie.

[1:21:54] And it's like, come on, guys.

[1:21:56] Like, think for a moment.

[1:21:57] Oh, Verhoeven did a whoopsie.

[1:21:58] Like, the idea that, well, also the idea

[1:22:01] that any European filmmaker of his age

[1:22:03] would not be aware of what he's doing

[1:22:05] when it comes to presenting fascist ideas in a movie

[1:22:08] is also funny to me.

[1:22:09] And Neil Patrick Harrison, clearly SS-inspired gear.

[1:22:14] Yeah.

[1:22:14] Well, let's say Hugo Boss-adjacent gear.

[1:22:17] But I think it's also, I will,

[1:22:19] not to excuse these critics, but I'll say,

[1:22:20] like, they're coming at it with their context too.

[1:22:22] They also are not given a lot of time

[1:22:24] to think about the thing that they're watching.

[1:22:26] They see it, they gotta write the review.

[1:22:28] And sometimes with a work of art,

[1:22:30] it takes you a little bit of time to let it sink into

[1:22:32] and to figure out what's going on.

[1:22:33] I remember when I saw There Will Be Blood,

[1:22:35] an old man on the other, sitting across the aisle from me,

[1:22:38] goes, so what did you think about that?

[1:22:40] And clearly wanted to complain to somebody.

[1:22:42] And I was like, I don't know yet.

[1:22:43] He's like, you don't know?

[1:22:44] I'm like, yeah, I don't know.

[1:22:45] Like, I just finished watching it.

[1:22:46] I don't know.

[1:22:47] And it was like, yeah, I gotta think about this.

[1:22:48] This is not a movie where I'm just gonna be

[1:22:50] a second later gonna be like, yeah,

[1:22:53] that was a total rockin' piece of work.

[1:22:55] We're like, oh, what a snooze fest.

[1:22:56] And clearly he had made up his mind.

[1:22:59] Sometimes it takes time.

[1:23:00] And one of the other movies that I think about with this

[1:23:02] is Vertigo, which when it came out,

[1:23:05] was considered kind of middling to poor Hitchcock.

[1:23:08] And it took time, I think, for people to tease out

[1:23:11] how autobiographical the obsession stuff in it is

[1:23:15] and how deep that runs in terms of filmmaking and storytelling

[1:23:19] and what he's doing in it.

[1:23:20] And they were instead were like, eh, not as many thrills.

[1:23:23] It's not as suspenseful as his other movies.

[1:23:26] They're just judging it by the wrong criteria, I think.

[1:23:29] And sometimes it's unclear.

[1:23:31] I also think about one of my big totally wrong statements

[1:23:37] or thoughts I had was I walked out of the Fright-

[1:23:39] You were like, RFK Jr. will make a great

[1:23:42] health and resources whatever person.

[1:23:44] Uh-huh.

[1:23:45] No, I walked out of the Frighteners and I'm like,

[1:23:47] this is gonna be huge.

[1:23:48] Because to me, it had everything.

[1:23:50] It was like, oh, you know, like laughs and thrills

[1:23:53] and it's glossy.

[1:23:54] Jeffrey Combs.

[1:23:55] Yeah.

[1:23:55] America loves Jeffrey Combs.

[1:23:57] But, you know, but it had-

[1:23:58] It's got John S. and having sex with a mummy.

[1:24:00] People are gonna love this.

[1:24:01] But it did have Michael J. Fox,

[1:24:03] who people genuinely do love.

[1:24:04] And I was like, this is gonna be big.

[1:24:06] And then it was a huge flop, but it has had,

[1:24:10] you know, it's a cult success.

[1:24:13] It's a real good movie.

[1:24:14] It's had legs and that's partly because then,

[1:24:16] you know, like all of Peter Jackson's stuff

[1:24:19] became notable because of like what he went on to do

[1:24:22] in part because of the Frighteners.

[1:24:23] Oh, what do you mean?

[1:24:24] The Frighteners-

[1:24:25] What do you do?

[1:24:25] Showed that he could control,

[1:24:26] he could do the sort of like big special effects

[1:24:29] filmmaking on a large level.

[1:24:31] But I don't know why that wasn't more of a success.

[1:24:35] I think it's not a movie that, I mean, I loved it.

[1:24:37] I remember seeing it in theaters and loving it.

[1:24:38] But while watching it, at no point was I like,

[1:24:40] this is gonna be a big hit.

[1:24:41] Because again, like, it's got a darkness to it.

[1:24:43] It's got an unpleasantness to it.

[1:24:44] Horror comedies always do badly.

[1:24:49] Not always.

[1:24:50] I don't know about that.

[1:24:50] But American Werewolf in London, for instance,

[1:24:53] was a huge hit.

[1:24:54] But also American Werewolf in London is not that funny.

[1:24:57] It's pretty much, I mean, it's okay,

[1:24:58] but it's not funny the way The Frighteners

[1:25:00] or like Shaun of the Dead or Evil Dead 2 is.

[1:25:03] But Shaun of the Dead was a successful movie, you know?

[1:25:05] I think it's, you gotta, with a horror comedy,

[1:25:08] I think you really gotta,

[1:25:09] I mean, there are successful horror comedies

[1:25:10] like Happy Death Day was a successful movie, you know?

[1:25:13] But like, you have to-

[1:25:14] But it is hard, huh?

[1:25:16] Well, I think it's really hard,

[1:25:17] I think, because you've gotta make sure

[1:25:18] the audience is aware all the time.

[1:25:20] Is this a laughing part or is this a scary part?

[1:25:22] And some of the best horror comedies,

[1:25:24] it's not super clear when you're supposed to laugh

[1:25:26] and when you're supposed to scream.

[1:25:27] And that hurts, it makes it harder for audiences.

[1:25:28] Like Hereditary?

[1:25:29] I mean, in some ways, yeah, like Hereditary, yeah.

[1:25:32] Yeah, you laugh when that head comes off.

[1:25:35] It's funny!

[1:25:37] When Gabriel Byrne just bursts into flames

[1:25:39] and you're like, his name's Byrne!

[1:25:42] I get it.

[1:25:45] Stuart, do you have anything or should I move on?

[1:25:46] I mean, I was gonna say something like Prometheus,

[1:25:49] a movie that I think suffered a lot

[1:25:51] because it was presented very clearly

[1:25:52] as a direct alien prequel.

[1:25:54] And it is, obviously, that was not Ridley Scott's intention.

[1:25:58] A Far Stranger.

[1:25:59] It's Far Stranger, but I think it's a beautiful movie

[1:26:01] that has a lot of great things in it.

[1:26:03] And it's a movie that's also grown on me over time.

[1:26:07] This second and final letter

[1:26:09] is from Justice Last Name Withheld, who writes,

[1:26:13] hey, Peaches, this question is mainly for Elliot.

[1:26:16] Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes!

[1:26:21] How dare you?

[1:26:22] Uh-oh.

[1:26:25] I recently had a kid and realized I had no-

[1:26:28] Uh-oh, guys, wait, we gotta take this to Maury.

[1:26:31] I can't, I'm not admitting paternity.

[1:26:34] I recently had a kid and realized I have no idea

[1:26:37] what the good, kid-friendly dinosaur books are

[1:26:40] that aren't 30 years out of date.

[1:26:42] Any suggestions of books or movies that your kids enjoyed

[1:26:45] and you felt were reasonably accurate or educational?

[1:26:49] Also, I really pushed for Elliot as a name,

[1:26:51] but got outvoted, sorry.

[1:26:53] That's all right, it's a great name.

[1:26:54] Maybe next time.

[1:26:57] Too many syllables.

[1:26:59] Too many P's. Three syllables, Dan.

[1:27:00] Yeah, man.

[1:27:02] What, my tongue's exhausted by the end of that.

[1:27:04] I mean, it can't all be Dan,

[1:27:05] but your name is Daniel, right?

[1:27:07] That's two syllables, yeah.

[1:27:08] Stewart, two syllables.

[1:27:10] I got one more syllable, yeah.

[1:27:11] One more syllable, one more fun.

[1:27:13] More syllables, more fun.

[1:27:14] That's what the old guy in the Six Flags commercials

[1:27:16] used to say, right?

[1:27:19] That's a good question.

[1:27:20] I think when it comes to movies that are accurate,

[1:27:23] I don't know that there are any, to be honest.

[1:27:25] We have yet to see the accurate

[1:27:28] feathered dinosaur movie of my dreams.

[1:27:31] In terms of books for kids that are accurate now,

[1:27:34] I gotta say, I don't know.

[1:27:35] There are good books for grownups

[1:27:37] about current dinosaur science.

[1:27:39] I'll recommend, there's a podcast called Terrible Lizards

[1:27:42] that I think is family-friendly listening.

[1:27:43] That's about kind of the latest in dinosaur science,

[1:27:47] and I like that podcast a lot.

[1:27:49] But for books, yeah, I don't know.

[1:27:52] I wish I had a better answer for you.

[1:27:53] My children are not interested in dinosaurs,

[1:27:56] which pains me.

[1:27:57] One is into sports, and the other's into animals

[1:28:00] that are alive, or prehistoric mammals.

[1:28:03] And I'm like, it's just one step.

[1:28:05] Why are we learning about these glyptodons?

[1:28:07] Let's just move over to dinosaurs, yeah.

[1:28:09] Mammals are so cute.

[1:28:11] I mean, they're cute, but look at,

[1:28:13] I mean, the prehistoric ones,

[1:28:15] there's a big sloth and stuff like that.

[1:28:16] It's like, what are we doing?

[1:28:18] Yeah, I guess that's true, yeah.

[1:28:21] Yeah, I just say this as someone who loves animals,

[1:28:24] but is mostly into how adorable they are.

[1:28:28] I mean, again, that's mostly my son's interest, too,

[1:28:30] is how adorable they are, yeah.

[1:28:33] Hey, let's move on to recommendations.

[1:28:36] Movies that, as much as Ella Mackay might have

[1:28:39] its heart in the right place,

[1:28:41] maybe your time would be better spent elsewhere.

[1:28:43] The problem is, Ella Mackay's heart is in the right place,

[1:28:44] but every other body part is totally messed up.

[1:28:46] Oh, you don't even wanna know where the spleen is.

[1:28:49] Oh, no.

[1:28:50] Oh, boy. Oh, brother.

[1:28:52] It's in the scrotum.

[1:28:53] That's what Tim's getting at, yeah.

[1:28:55] What?

[1:28:58] I wanna recommend, I wanna pull an Elliott

[1:29:00] and recommend a movie from the 30s.

[1:29:03] Elliott may have recommended this in the past, in fact,

[1:29:05] but I didn't check.

[1:29:08] This is Gold Diggers of 1933.

[1:29:11] It's on the Mervyn LeRoy Criterion collection right now,

[1:29:17] although it's co-directed with Busby Berkeley,

[1:29:21] who did the musical numbers.

[1:29:23] And there was a Warners Busby Berkeley DVD set

[1:29:27] that came out years ago that this is in, too.

[1:29:29] That's a great set.

[1:29:30] There's some really good stuff in it.

[1:29:32] I had thought maybe I'd seen this movie before

[1:29:34] because I'd seen clips of the absolutely nutty

[1:29:39] musical numbers in this,

[1:29:41] but I realized I had not actually seen the whole movie,

[1:29:44] and I'd done myself a disservice,

[1:29:46] because it's very funny.

[1:29:50] It starts out with a lot of stuff about,

[1:29:52] oh, it's the Depression,

[1:29:53] like all these shows are being shut down,

[1:29:56] these chorus girls have no work for them.

[1:29:59] The main.

[1:30:00] of it then ends up being like a rich son of a family played by, wait, who is it?

[1:30:09] Dick Powell, right? Dick Powell, Dick Powell, you know, gets involved with one of the

[1:30:13] chorus girls and then the brother and their lawyer show up to try and put a

[1:30:19] stop to this saying like, oh, you know, these girls are all just gold diggers

[1:30:23] and the girls overhear this and decide to get back at these people by gold

[1:30:28] digging the fuck out of them and making them love it, love being taken

[1:30:35] advantage of and it's really funny on top of all of the all the musical

[1:30:40] numbers and then it ends in a very sad musical number that is a weird clash of

[1:30:46] tones. So that musical number was originally gonna, so this is the

[1:30:49] Forgotten, Remember My Forgotten Man number, which is an amazing

[1:30:53] musical number. It's and it's a beautiful song about basically a woman singing

[1:30:57] about my man went and fought in World War I and now no one's taking care of

[1:31:01] him and I need him and you need to take care of him so that I can have him

[1:31:04] and that was originally gonna be in the middle of the movie because it's like

[1:31:09] it's one of these old Broadway type musicals where it's about a Broadway

[1:31:12] show and so the musical numbers are just productions for that show. They're not

[1:31:17] the characters singing about their true feelings in real life or anything like

[1:31:20] that. Yeah. And this was we're gonna be in the middle of the movie and they were

[1:31:23] like Jesus we can't come back from this. After this there's no more moot. We can't

[1:31:28] go back to the story. So they place it at the end. What I like about it is that

[1:31:31] this is a really frothy kind of light-hearted movie throughout. It's set

[1:31:34] during the Depression but it's really bubbly. It is about these three women. I

[1:31:38] mean Aileen McMahon is my favorite of them. These three women who are just gonna

[1:31:41] who are just gonna gold dig their way through and the way she she reels in

[1:31:46] this rich guy who I think it's Guy Kibbe who plays him. They would be in a lot

[1:31:50] of movies together. But then to end that movie this really frothy bubbly movie

[1:31:55] with this very serious number I think it's a really powerful thing to do but

[1:32:01] it's also just an amazing number. It's a it's a it's a really great movie and

[1:32:05] Dan if you like that one have you ever seen the movie Dames? No but I went and I

[1:32:09] put that on my watch list right after this because I remember you talking

[1:32:12] about how much you loved Dames. Dames is like if Gold Diggers of 1933 was even

[1:32:16] sillier and there's no and there's no Remember My Forgotten Man number. It's

[1:32:20] just it's just a it's just it like it's just a really goofy movie but the

[1:32:24] musical numbers are really fun and it's a lot of the same ideas you know and

[1:32:28] some of the same cast I believe if I'm remembering correctly. But yeah I'll I

[1:32:32] have my own recommendation but I second Dan's recommendation. I love that movie

[1:32:35] Gold Diggers 1933. I think it's great. I'm also gonna recommend an older movie.

[1:32:39] This is one I saw with Dan. It was called American Cyborg Steel Warrior. This is

[1:32:45] the movie what one of the last releases from Canon Films. Is that correct? I think

[1:32:49] it may have even been the last. It may have even been the last. So it's one of those

[1:32:53] like Terminator knockoffs. It's about a woman who is escorting the last living

[1:32:59] or healthy fetus in America to a boat so the boat can take it to Europe so it can

[1:33:04] be raised in the what the Eden that is Europe in this weird post-apocalyptic

[1:33:10] is in a tube by the way this is in a tube it's very much like something from

[1:33:17] like Kojima game and it's like it always looks like it's smiling and giving

[1:33:22] thumbs up it's awesome and she is this woman is escorted and defended by this

[1:33:30] like long-haired Jesus looking warrior guy before the movie started Christina

[1:33:38] gave us the detail that he played Tarzan into unrelated Tarzan project and he has

[1:33:45] so much makeup on and his like everything is so manicured he looks like

[1:33:49] like a giga Chad meme I love it so much and he's fighting this non-stop killer

[1:33:55] cyborg who looks like kind of if they were like we need to make a Rob Halford

[1:33:59] cyborg blot like balding blonde mustache all leather huge it's great yeah it's

[1:34:06] very very silly I can't recommend it enough yeah it was a lot all right I

[1:34:12] have to hunt that down I haven't seen that one I'm gonna recommend speaking of

[1:34:16] this relates to the question that we had earlier about a movies that were kind of

[1:34:20] panned on their release and have received some appreciation later and I

[1:34:23] recently watched the re-edited version of the Cotton Club Francis Ford Coppola's

[1:34:28] movie which when it came out people were like this movie is does not work and it

[1:34:32] was a huge financial failure but years later Francis Ford Coppola spent his own

[1:34:39] money he loves spending money on his movies he spent like half a million

[1:34:41] dollars re-editing God bless him for having the confidence in this yeah I

[1:34:46] mean he's not gonna do it again I don't think I think I think make a lot of

[1:34:49] megalopolis has closed the door on yeah self-financing dreams again but he

[1:34:54] re-edited into a movie called the Cotton Club Encore and that's available on Tubi

[1:34:58] right now and it still doesn't totally work but there's a lot of really good

[1:35:04] stuff in it it's about the Cotton Club in Harlem and about the performers there

[1:35:09] this was the club where was all black performers but black people were not

[1:35:12] allowed to attend the club only white people were and it was run by gangsters

[1:35:15] because all the clubs were run by gangsters and the movie is about the

[1:35:18] performers and the gangsters unfortunately it spends more time on the

[1:35:22] gangsters who are kind of less interesting and Francis Ford Coppola I

[1:35:27] don't know if you guys know this already made the definitive movie about

[1:35:30] gangsters so I'd be I don't know that he needed to do more gangster stuff

[1:35:34] there's some okay stuff in it but the stuff with the performers is really good

[1:35:37] there's a bunch of really great musical performances in it and dance

[1:35:40] performances Gregory Hines is in it with his brother

[1:35:43] Moritines and they do a number of dance routines that are really fantastic and

[1:35:48] at the end of the movie the world that's being created on stage and the real

[1:35:53] world outside the theater start to merge in a really fun way and it's

[1:35:57] almost like the end of the movie you're like oh they finally figured out what

[1:36:01] this movie should have been they cracked it but up until that point there's still

[1:36:05] a lot of good stuff in it and so I think it's an imperfect movie it still doesn't

[1:36:09] fully totally work but it looks beautiful the musical performances and

[1:36:13] the dance performances are great and there's a lot of good scenes in it so

[1:36:16] I'd recommend the Cotton Club Encore which again it's on Tubi right now you

[1:36:20] don't even have to pay a dime to see this thing not a dime and brother could

[1:36:26] you spare one I can't live in the world of gold diggers 1933 everything you know

[1:36:30] that was a song that they were gonna play I don't know why but it turned out

[1:36:34] to be a more specific song about you know that wasn't the song veterans um so is

[1:36:40] that your note for the movie why didn't you yeah I just wanted to change it make

[1:36:45] it can you spare a day I just wanted to end our episode on a deflating note I

[1:36:50] mean we're in the money isn't that that's this is the design 33 is the one

[1:36:54] where if you've ever seen the footage of ginger Rogers singing we're in the money

[1:36:57] and pig Latin she does a whole verse okay yeah or if you've seen the silhouettes

[1:37:02] of naked ladies because this is a pre-code movie that's from the petting in

[1:37:07] the park number yeah I mean this also includes Billy Barty as a horny baby

[1:37:16] runs around and gets chased by roller skating police officers at one point it's

[1:37:22] either in dames or footlight parade there's a number called honeymoon hotel

[1:37:26] where a couple is getting into the hotel room to have sex and then Billy Barty

[1:37:29] kind of like scrambles out from under the bed and the husband throws an ashtray

[1:37:34] like really oh no it's in foot like pray that he's a cat there's a there's a

[1:37:37] number where he's a little kitten but there's a Billy Barty as that he was

[1:37:41] like a kid at the time I think or very young and it's just like he just they

[1:37:45] just would throw him in there to just getting into trouble you know long

[1:37:49] career long career he was like I was like man he was in willow and he was in

[1:37:54] yes gold diggers of 1933 well with that appreciation of Billy Barty out of the

[1:38:02] of course ending the podcast I'd like to say thank you to our network maximum fun

[1:38:07] go to maximum fun org for other great podcasts of all kinds and thank you to

[1:38:13] Alex Smith our producer who makes us sound good and also does his own

[1:38:18] wonderful creative stuff under the name how old dottie look him up on the

[1:38:23] internet for this episode of the flop us I have been Dan McCoy I'm Stuart

[1:38:28] Wellington I'm Elliot Kalin are we not doing the bit from trust him you guys

[1:38:35] got really cool

[1:38:44] ready yeah yeah fuck it fuck it let's do it like who cares yeah all right on this

[1:38:52] episode we discuss Ella McKay boy do we ever guys what was this movie about

[1:38:58] yeesh actually you know I've got an idea I've got an idea hold on okay on this

[1:39:06] episode we discuss Ella McKay the movie that says this is the story about a

[1:39:10] young woman who hey what's that over there well maybe I'll talk about that

[1:39:14] no what's that thing hold on maximum fun a worker owned network of artists owned

[1:39:21] shows supported directly by you

Ella McCay

Chapters

Transcript

Description