FH Mini 153 - Tops and Flops

Stuart Wellington

[0:00] Hey, it's me, Stuart Wellington, on the Flophouse Podcast, and we are doing another Flophouse Mini, and I'm joined by my co-host, introduce yourself, fellas.

[0:13] Dan McCoy.

[0:14] Elliot Charles Kalin, the second.

[0:17] Now, welcome back to the inaugural episode of a new Flophouse Mini segment.

[0:23] Right.

[0:24] Welcome back to the inaugural.

[0:26] I already got them all twisted up.

[0:28] With another classic Stuart Brain teaser.

[0:32] Okay.

[0:32] But to get back to the original.

[0:34] Another Stuart Brain attack.

[0:35] We thought we were ready for it.

[0:37] So, Brain Teasers aside, let's get back to the meat of this, and that is coming back to the inaugural episode of a new Flophouse Mini format.

[0:45] That's right.

[0:45] We are at, this is called Tops and Flops.

[0:49] That's right.

[0:50] All right.

[0:50] We are talking about Tops and Flops.

[0:53] A baseball card company.

[0:54] You're probably thinking we're talking about baseball cards.

[0:58] Baseball.

[0:59] All these balls have been based.

[1:00] We can't use these.

[1:01] We've got to put a practice thing.

[1:02] I've messed it all up.

[1:03] Basted balls.

[1:03] Get those balls some hems.

[1:05] Yeah.

[1:06] We're not talking about, when you hear Tops and Flops, you're probably thinking of baseball cards and flip-flops.

[1:11] We are not talking about that.

[1:12] We are, again, talking about a rare thing here on the Flophouse, which is movies.

[1:17] Normally on the Flophouse Minis, we talk about whatever.

[1:20] But here on this is a big flop.

[1:21] Usually still movies.

[1:23] Yeah.

[1:23] You're right.

[1:24] Okay.

[1:24] Fine.

[1:25] Undercut my initial point.

[1:27] We are going to be talking about movies.

[1:28] We are going to be talking about the best movies by communal decision and the worst movies by communal decision by various directors.

[1:38] Now, those ratings are going to be based on IMBB.

[1:42] Now, I would ask my two-

[1:43] IMBB?

[1:44] IMBB.

[1:45] I'm BB-8, baby.

[1:49] I wish IMBB.com.

Elliott Kalan

[1:52] That's more like four Bs right there.

[1:54] I wish IMBB.com was just a website where you just go and there's a picture of BB-8 and he just says, I'm BB-8, baby.

Stuart Wellington

[2:03] Wonderful.

[2:03] Guys, I feel like our fucking curse is that we can't not talk about Star Wars.

[2:08] I don't understand.

[2:10] Save me from this.

[2:11] Okay.

[2:12] So, the idea is that we are going to be talking about different filmmakers.

[2:16] In this inaugural episode, I have selected a couple of directors.

[2:21] And we're going to look at the IMDB rankings.

[2:25] And we're going to look at the one that is considered the best by the ranking system.

[2:30] And we're going to be looking at the worst by the ranking system.

[2:33] Now, this collection of directors I have chosen by, I tried to pick a little bit of a diverse crowd, a crowd, but it is still limited by directors who I believe.

[2:42] There's a good chance we have seen some of their movies.

[2:46] It's also affected by my own personal taste.

[2:49] Yeah.

[2:50] And also –

[2:51] Veritia Lova, all of them.

[2:52] Okay, great.

[2:53] Cool.

[2:53] And keeping in mind that the ranking systems is from IMDB users.

[2:57] So, it's, you know –

[2:58] They'll be wild.

[3:00] Grano Salt.

[3:01] Grano Salt.

[3:02] Yep.

[3:02] So, we are – I would ask my co-host –

Elliott Kalan

[3:05] Grano Salt sounds like a DC supervillain from the 1950s.

[3:09] It's like Batman's like, oh, all my clothes are so crispy and weird.

Stuart Wellington

[3:13] Yeah, yeah.

[3:13] In collaboration with the Grano Salt Company, they're like, this is a limited time character.

[3:18] Okay.

[3:19] So, we are – I would ask my co-host to not use IMDB at the same time just to preserve some of the excitement on this.

[3:26] So, what we're going to do is we're going to list the filmmaker.

[3:31] We're going to mention, you know, kind of guess at what the top one is, kind of guess at what the bottom one is.

[3:36] And then we'll kind of discuss whether or not either of those choices are what we expected or what we think should be or what might be influencing that.

[3:46] So, the first one, he has a big movie out now as of time of recording.

[3:51] That is Mr. Steven Spielberg and fellas, give me two seconds here.

[3:57] It's a movie.

Elliott Kalan

[3:57] It's called Disclosure Day.

[3:58] It's about aliens sexually harassing Michael Douglas.

Stuart Wellington

[4:02] That actually tracks.

[4:04] I'm just going to be using the old internet here.

[4:07] So, we are using this by – nope.

Dan McCoy

[4:10] Yep, by Wi-Fi, which stands for wireless fidelity, wireless fire exit.

Stuart Wellington

[4:19] Wireless fire exit.

[4:21] Sorry.

[4:22] I expected this to go much faster and now it's going slower.

[4:30] Wi-Fi stands for will it function?

[4:31] Impossible.

[4:33] And refine.

[4:35] Okay.

[4:35] So, what do we think is the number one movie, the top movie?

[4:41] Show me Sugar Land Express.

Dan McCoy

[4:43] I'm going to guess Jaws.

[4:46] There's a chance it is Schindler's List, but I'm going to say Jaws.

[4:50] I'm going to say E.T.

Stuart Wellington

[4:53] It is Schindler's List with a whopping 9.0.

[4:59] Jaws isn't even in the top five.

[5:01] Well, that is wild.

[5:03] That is.

[5:04] E.T. is also not in the top five.

[5:06] That is also wild.

[5:07] The top five are –

[5:08] The problem with IMDb.

[5:09] Top five is Schindler's List, Saving Private Ryan, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Jurassic Park, and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, which I would argue is probably – like, I feel like the first four, I can see the argument.

Elliott Kalan

[5:21] You can make an argument that Last Crusade is better than E.T., Jaws, Close Encounters, No Way.

[5:26] Seems wild.

[5:28] Yeah.

[5:29] I would say The Fablemans is better than Last Crusade in my mind, you know.

[5:33] Mm-hmm.

Stuart Wellington

[5:35] Now, what do you think – his lowest rating one is one I have not seen or heard of.

Dan McCoy

[5:41] I have a strong guess for the – oh, not heard of.

[5:44] Well, I'm going to guess –

[5:45] Ridge of Spies?

[5:46] Always because I feel like –

[5:48] Oh, yeah.

[5:48] Something like Hook has too many millennial fans, you know.

[5:52] Ready Player One has too many nerd fans.

[5:55] I'm going to say always.

Elliott Kalan

[5:57] I'm going to say it is the TV movie he did before Duel that I can't remember the name of.

[6:07] Devil's something.

[6:08] Devil's Playground.

[6:09] Is it called Firelight?

[6:11] Oh, Firelight.

[6:12] Firelight is the low.

[6:13] That's a short.

[6:14] Firelight, isn't that what he made as a kid?

Stuart Wellington

[6:16] Firelight here is listed as two hours and 20 minutes.

[6:19] Really?

[6:20] Isn't that –

[6:21] Because I set it to – the criteria was set to movies.

[6:25] I believe that's a student film though, isn't it?

[6:27] I thought so too.

[6:27] Firelight.

[6:28] Nonetheless.

[6:29] Okay.

[6:29] So ignoring that.

Elliott Kalan

[6:30] So it is – it's from 1964.

[6:32] That's the movie he made when he was a teenager.

[6:34] Yeah, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[6:34] The one above that would be 1941.

[6:36] Oh, this is –

[6:37] Okay.

Elliott Kalan

[6:37] According to Wikipedia, only three minutes and 40 seconds of the footage of Firelight has been made public.

Stuart Wellington

[6:43] Okay.

[6:43] So I can see why it would have a bad rating.

[6:45] Yes.

[6:46] So we have 19 –

Elliott Kalan

[6:47] Although on a – he's talked about this.

[6:48] On a budget of $500, he made $501 at the box office.

[6:51] So even then –

[6:52] There you go.

[6:52] He gets his money back.

[6:54] Blockbuster.

[6:54] So what's the movie then?

[6:55] Big money, Steve.

[6:55] When you take out Firelight, what's the bottom one?

[6:58] 1941.

[6:58] Okay.

[6:59] That's another one I would have guessed.

[7:00] Yeah.

[7:00] Because it's –

Stuart Wellington

[7:01] Yeah.

[7:01] Always is in the bottom five.

[7:03] Very bad.

[7:04] Along with Twilight Zone, the movie, the BFG, and Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull.

[7:09] I forgot he made the BFG.

Elliott Kalan

[7:11] I never saw that.

[7:12] I never saw Ready Player One.

[7:13] I never seen it.

[7:13] I forgot he made that.

[7:14] Yeah.

[7:15] When you become an old man director, you either take a long time between –

Stuart Wellington

[7:20] Ready Player One is straight in the middle here.

[7:23] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[7:23] Yeah.

[7:23] When you're an old man director, you either take a lot of –

[7:25] It's about Lincoln.

[7:26] Okay.

[7:26] You either take a lot of time to make movies or you just churn them out.

[7:29] And I feel like Spielberg has been in a churning them out section of his career.

Dan McCoy

[7:33] Yeah.

[7:33] Well, I mean he always though.

[7:35] Like it's like he's –

[7:36] He's made a lot of movies.

[7:37] He's setting something up while he's got – he's got like five things going on and then whatever's ready to go.

Stuart Wellington

[7:44] Yeah.

[7:44] I feel like the War of the Worlds movie is ranked fairly low.

[7:49] I like that movie a lot.

[7:51] I think it's good.

[7:51] The only thing I don't like is that there's no universe where I believe Tom Cruise is like a longshoreman.

[7:57] Yeah.

[7:58] Too pretty.

[7:59] Sugar Land Express is pretty low.

[8:01] It's a great movie though.

Dan McCoy

[8:03] It's just low because people haven't seen it.

Elliott Kalan

[8:06] I think there's going to be – I mean the movies – I'm amazed that E.T. is not higher up.

[8:09] But the movie – it makes sense to me that the lower movies are the ones that are more about people and less about spectacle.

[8:14] Yeah.

[8:14] You know?

[8:15] Yeah.

[8:15] Based on the IMDb voting audience.

[8:17] You know?

[8:20] Where's Bridge of Spies on there?

Stuart Wellington

[8:23] Bridge of Spies was – wait, I just lost it.

[8:25] Bridge of Spies was straight in the middle.

[8:27] Okay.

[8:27] What about the paper?

Elliott Kalan

[8:28] Or the post?

[8:29] Sorry, the post.

Stuart Wellington

[8:30] Also like low to mid.

[8:33] Okay.

[8:34] Do you have – now do you have a personal – I mean I think when we guessed we had our – were you guys guessing with your heart or with your brain on these?

[8:42] I was trying to do a little bit of both.

Elliott Kalan

[8:43] I do think E.T. is the movie of his that is the most magical to me.

[8:47] But also like I was like there's a lot of 80s kids probably voting on IMDb.

[8:51] I would think E.T. would be – that it's not in the top five is astounding to me.

[8:54] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[8:55] Yeah.

[8:55] I mean E.T. is certainly – I would not argue with someone who put that at the top.

[9:01] Like I like Jaws and Raiders the most.

[9:06] But E.T. like has such magic to it.

Elliott Kalan

[9:10] And I feel like E.T. is – if you were going to say to me what is the – show me a movie that Steven Spielberg made that nobody else would make that well or that way.

[9:20] And E.T. is the movie that I – maybe E.T. or Close Encounters are the ones that I would show where I'd be like – it's hard for me to imagine somebody else making these movies the same way he does and as well as he does.

[9:27] Those specific movies just because he has such a connection to the material, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[9:32] And I feel like people have tried to recreate the magic of E.T.

[9:36] Yeah.

[9:36] I just watched Mac and me again recently.

[9:40] They got pretty close.

[9:41] Well, that's – you've just undercut my point here.

[9:43] I was going to say nobody's come close to matching it.

[9:45] But clearly Mac and me.

Dan McCoy

[9:48] I showed another Stuart Raffle movie for my bad movie night pick recently because when we had Alonzo on the show, he just like offhandedly mentioned like a couple of things.

[10:01] And he was like, oh, you know, like I went and saw After Last Season because sometimes you hear through the grapevine like something's really special and he like tossed off the title Standing Ovation.

[10:11] And I looked it up.

[10:12] I'm like, oh, from the director of Mac and me.

[10:14] It's sold in the room.

[10:16] Sight unseen.

[10:17] I'll program this.

[10:18] And it was a big hit.

Stuart Wellington

[10:21] So if you're looking for a bad movie.

[10:22] We're going to move on to our next director and that is director – it's a Coppola, Sofia Coppola.

[10:29] Oh.

[10:30] Nine features here.

[10:32] That's a – you know, I feel like enough to have a – that's a solid career there.

[10:37] You can have a middle in that.

[10:38] What do you say is the number one Sofia Coppola movie?

[10:42] What's the top?

[10:43] Lost in Translation, I would say.

[10:44] Yeah, I'm still going to guess Lost in Translation.

[10:46] Got in one.

[10:47] Banged it out by a decent margin.

Elliott Kalan

[10:51] I'd say IMDb viewers – IMDb voters, they like Bill Murray.

[10:54] They like seeing Scarlett Johansson's butt.

[10:56] You know, what else?

[10:57] What else are they going to choose?

Stuart Wellington

[10:59] Followed a little – closely by the Virgin Suicides.

[11:03] Mm-hmm.

[11:03] A little bit of a gap.

[11:04] We got Marie Antoinette.

[11:06] What do you think the bottom is?

[11:08] I'm guessing the bling ring.

[11:09] You are 100% correct.

Elliott Kalan

[11:11] Oh, I was going to say the Beguiled, but the bling ring is even lower.

[11:14] Oh, okay.

Stuart Wellington

[11:14] Yeah, bling ring is at a 5.6.

[11:17] I feel like people –

[11:18] I've never – I actually haven't seen the bling ring.

Dan McCoy

[11:19] I've never seen it either.

[11:20] I feel like – I guess that one because it's the one that people like I think forget was even her.

[11:25] Uh-huh.

[11:25] Yeah.

[11:26] Which isn't a good sign for like the support behind it.

Stuart Wellington

[11:31] Oh, yeah.

[11:31] I feel like – I feel like I still haven't seen the Sofia Coppola Beguiled, but I do love the original.

[11:37] Yeah.

[11:37] Dan, have you seen it?

[11:39] I feel like that's – I mean, I'm shocked that all – if all three of us have not.

Dan McCoy

[11:42] Yeah, I've only seen the original and I'm shocked I haven't seen it because I love Sofia Coppola.

[11:46] I think I've seen all of her other movies except for the bling ring.

[11:50] And the Beguiled.

[11:50] And the Beguiled, yeah.

[11:51] Yeah, I should see it.

Elliott Kalan

[11:52] I think – I think I just never got around.

[11:55] It was just one of those ones where like I just didn't want to see it so badly that I made a point of seeing it, you know.

[12:00] And I forgot about it until now.

[12:01] But I love that original so much, yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[12:03] I mean, it also speaks to – her earlier work seems to have – to be like rated a little bit higher.

[12:11] Do you think that's common with an indie filmmaker?

[12:14] Because I feel like maybe that's unfair for me to call her an indie filmmaker.

[12:17] But I feel like her movies at least have the feel of an indie filmmaker.

Elliott Kalan

[12:20] I mean, I think that's common with many filmmakers.

[12:22] I think with indie filmmakers also, often the first movies they make are the ones that they're excited about.

[12:27] Like the ones that they have to get made, you know.

[12:28] And so that's what they do.

[12:30] But often with a lot of filmmakers –

Stuart Wellington

[12:30] And they often have to fight to get it made in a way that they might not later on.

Elliott Kalan

[12:35] And also they're new.

[12:36] They're bursting with ideas.

[12:37] Often they're younger and they don't – they can really apply their whole self.

[12:41] To the movie because they don't have other responsibilities.

[12:44] And it's – I feel like the – every director's career for the most part has ups and downs.

[12:50] That it's often more dependent on their life outside of their work than we on the outside outside really have a sense of, you know.

[12:59] But I think with a lot of filmmakers when they're young and new, it's like the excitement of what they're doing comes through.

[13:04] And then they kind of settle into it.

[13:05] But then you've got filmmakers where they start out not knowing what they're doing and then they become masters.

[13:09] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[13:10] I mean I think it's also true that like even if someone puts out work of pretty consistent quality, there's a tendency among audiences to be like, oh, I'm excited by like a thing when it's new.

[13:23] And then if someone has a style, they're like, well, I'm tired of that style even if it's still good – if it's still good work.

Elliott Kalan

[13:30] Well, you can see – you see with like the Acting Academy Awards, there's often like people at the beginnings of their career and it's exciting that they're being discovered or people at the very ends of their career where it's like you've rediscovered how important this person is after years of taking them for granted.

[13:45] And I think it's the same way with art in general when people are – mass art that way, you know.

[13:51] It's why it's exciting when like someone in the middle of like a pretty consistent career just does something very different that pays off, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[13:59] Because you're like, whoa, I didn't know they had it in them.

[14:01] Oh, okay.

[14:02] What's this all about?

[14:03] Our next director, the top will actually surprise you based on some of what we've already said.

[14:09] But this – in honor of the Knicks victory last night, the New York Knicks.

[14:13] Spike Lee?

[14:13] We're doing Spike Lee.

[14:15] Yep.

[14:15] The unofficial mascot of the New York Knicks.

[14:20] I saw like an Instagram video after one of the wins recently where it was just like a crowd of people standing around a car with Spike Lee like out of the sun.

[14:29] Everyone's just cheering.

[14:32] Our next king.

[14:34] Now, what would you say the top movie on Spike Lee's film?

Dan McCoy

[14:39] I'm guessing that Do the Right Thing might be too political for some of the voters on IMDb and thus Inside Man might slip in.

Elliott Kalan

[14:50] I'm going to say maybe Malcolm X.

Stuart Wellington

[14:53] While both of those are ranked fairly high, Do the Right Thing is very high but is the third on the list.

[15:02] But the – I would probably second actually.

[15:05] The number one is – I guess even though it's –

[15:10] Shy Rack.

[15:11] Very big surprise.

[15:12] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[15:12] David Byrne's American Utopia.

[15:15] I was like – right before you said it, I'm like, I wonder if that slipped in just because it's like –

[15:19] people are like, what a great concert movie.

[15:21] I haven't seen it.

[15:22] How is it?

[15:22] Oh, it's wonderful.

[15:23] It's like I was lucky enough to see the show when it was on Broadway.

[15:28] As soon as it was announced, I'm like, well, I'm sure this is going to be expensive but this is the thing that I need to see.

[15:35] David Byrne doing a – and it was wonderful.

[15:38] And yeah, the documentary version of it is excellent.

[15:42] But it is just a great concert movie.

[15:44] Like it is less a Spike Lee movie.

[15:47] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[15:48] But I mean –

[15:49] Spike Lee joint is the technical term.

[15:51] I mean we've talked about Spike Lee specifically talking about Inside Man before.

[15:56] And there are moments in his career where he's just like, I can do the craft.

[16:01] I can just do the basic craft as good as anyone else.

Elliott Kalan

[16:04] There are moments when he's like, let me just show you – like we talked about this before that.

[16:09] Let me show you the movies I make.

[16:12] I make them because that's the way I want to make a movie and that's the movie I want to make.

[16:15] I could easily make a movie that's a more mainstream movie and be as good as anyone has ever made a movie.

[16:21] He's an amazing filmmaker.

[16:22] He's just got such a natural like craft knowledge.

[16:26] Like he's a brilliant artist.

[16:27] Like he's got – he's so good at what he does and he puts so much thought and intention into everything he does.

[16:33] Which is funny when he makes a movie that's kind of a mess.

[16:35] It's because he's like, yeah, this is the movie I'm making.

[16:37] I'm making a mess.

[16:39] And – but like Inside Man shows, he's like, I can do control if that's what you want.

[16:44] But that's not what I want, you know.

Stuart Wellington

[16:45] So what would we say IMDb voters like the least from his filmography?

[16:50] This is tough because I feel like –

[16:52] I'm going to guess Crooklyn.

[16:53] He is a brilliant – Crooklyn?

Dan McCoy

[16:55] Yeah.

[16:55] I feel like that was really reclaimed.

Elliott Kalan

[16:57] Then I'm going to guess Red Hook Summer.

Dan McCoy

[17:00] Yeah, maybe something like that.

[17:01] Crooklyn is much higher.

[17:03] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[17:03] What's the – I'm just – I'm trying to guess ones that are like –

[17:06] Like Girl 6 maybe?

Dan McCoy

[17:06] Girl 6 is pretty low.

Elliott Kalan

[17:08] I'm trying to guess ones that are like smaller movies because I feel like IMDb does not do a great job of recognizing the worth in smaller movies.

Stuart Wellington

[17:15] What was the one –

[17:15] He also has 36 credits.

[17:18] Yeah, that's the thing.

[17:19] He's got so many movies.

Elliott Kalan

[17:20] Is it the one – is it his remake of Ganja and Hess was like The Blood of Jesus or whatever it was?

[17:25] You are correct.

[17:26] That's his lowest.

[17:27] All right.

Stuart Wellington

[17:28] Almost nobody saw that.

[17:29] What a pull.

[17:29] Yeah.

[17:30] Some of his lowest movies are his – effectively his remakes, whether it's highest to lowest.

[17:35] Oh, the old boy remake.

[17:36] And the old boy remake.

[17:38] I forgot he did that remake.

[17:39] Chirac is kind of low.

[17:40] School Days is pretty low.

[17:42] Girl 6 is Red Hook Summer.

[17:45] But then like in the middle you have things like Moe Better Blues, Summer of Sam, Bamboozled.

[17:53] Part of looking through this is also being reminded of like, oh, yeah, he's got this huge film library.

[17:59] I still have never seen 25th Hour, a movie that –

[18:02] I haven't either.

[18:03] It's very hard to find.

[18:03] It's being mentioned as like the quintessential like post-September 11th movie.

Elliott Kalan

[18:10] Yeah.

[18:11] I didn't see it when it came out because it looked – the commercials made it look very boring.

[18:15] But I've heard nothing but good things about it.

[18:16] But it's one that each time I try to find it online somewhere – I should just watch it illegally, I guess.

[18:21] But when I try to find it streaming somewhere, like it's just not available.

[18:24] It's not as readily available as a lot of other movies.

Stuart Wellington

[18:26] Elliot, we here at the Flophouse believe firmly in streaming services getting their piece of everything.

Elliott Kalan

[18:31] In streaming service property rights.

[18:32] The middleman must get their dollar, you know.

Dan McCoy

[18:35] I saw that movie at the time and I loved it.

[18:38] I think it's one – it is like a great movie.

[18:41] I personally find this idea of it being like the quintessential post-9-11 movie like a little overstated.

[18:48] I mean it was not – it was not built as that and then they added some stuff that like gave it more of that flavor, you know, after the tragedies happened.

[18:59] But like I don't know.

[19:02] Maybe if I saw it today, I would feel differently.

Elliott Kalan

[19:05] Whereas you think the quintessential post-9-11 movie is Spider-Man?

[19:09] This is New York.

[19:10] You mess with one of us.

[19:11] You mess with all of us.

[19:12] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[19:14] That spirit went away after a while.

Stuart Wellington

[19:16] Well, it's back.

[19:17] The Knicks.

[19:17] It's back.

[19:18] Yeah, that's true.

[19:18] Maybe.

[19:19] Yeah.

[19:20] Yeah.

[19:20] I mean and also like his tops are a lot of the things that I feel like are going to be more of his like larger audience.

[19:29] The ones where he seems to be making something for like a larger audience.

[19:33] Things like Malcolm X, Black Klansman that features Friend of the Podcast.

[19:39] Ashley Atkinson.

[19:40] Yeah.

[19:40] Good movie.

[19:41] It's a really good movie.

[19:43] So we're going to go now from Spike Lee to Ang Lee.

[19:48] I thought he was going to say Spike Jones.

[19:51] But he went to Ang Lee.

[19:51] Well, I got to change it real quick.

[19:54] So who do we think is going to be – what do we think is going to be Ang Lee's best movie?

[20:01] I'm guessing –

Dan McCoy

[20:02] Top movie.

[20:03] Cracking Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

[20:05] It's tied.

Stuart Wellington

[20:06] I would guess that or Brokeback Mountain but –

[20:10] Oh, man.

[20:10] Brokeback Mountain is so fucking good.

[20:12] Well, where's the wedding banquet on there?

[20:13] That's my personal favorite.

Elliott Kalan

[20:13] Because the wedding banquet I think is my favorite of his.

Stuart Wellington

[20:15] His – there's a tie for number one and one of those is Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

Elliott Kalan

[20:20] And the other one is the Hulk.

Stuart Wellington

[20:22] Please.

[20:23] It's just Hulk.

[20:24] Sorry.

[20:24] It's just Hulk.

[20:24] Give me – Eric Bana is the Hulk.

[20:26] Is it Life of Pi?

[20:27] Is that the other one?

[20:28] It's Life of Pi.

[20:29] I still haven't seen that.

[20:30] Wow.

[20:30] I haven't seen that one.

[20:31] I haven't seen it either.

[20:32] There's a tiger in it, right?

[20:33] There's a tiger.

Elliott Kalan

[20:34] It's one of those movies where –

[20:35] Or is there?

[20:36] Wink.

[20:37] That's a good point.

[20:38] Yeah.

[20:39] It's one of those movies where I like cannot bring myself – I'm like I'm just going to see this kid and this tiger in a boat for like forever.

[20:44] I don't know.

[20:45] I don't know, guys.

Dan McCoy

[20:46] Yeah.

[20:46] And I mean I understand.

[20:48] Like I hear it looks beautiful.

[20:50] I've heard it's beautiful.

[20:51] It won him Best Director, right?

[20:52] I feel like it looked really fake to me in a way that was – I mean like artificial is fine as far as I'm concerned.

[20:59] But there's a –

Stuart Wellington

[21:00] Far artificial you draw the line at.

Dan McCoy

[21:01] There's a digital fakiness I have a harder time with.

[21:05] I'm sorry, Todd.

[21:06] I think we all feel that way.

[21:08] I grew up with a certain aesthetic.

[21:09] That's the thing.

[21:09] We're all 80s kids.

Elliott Kalan

[21:11] So we would rather see a fake puppet than a fake computer thing.

[21:14] Yeah.

[21:15] That's just what we grew up with.

Stuart Wellington

[21:17] What was Ang Lee's breakthrough movie?

[21:20] Eat, Drink, Man, Woman probably, right?

Elliott Kalan

[21:22] Yeah, I think so.

[21:23] I mean he was – that was the one I think that got him like a bigger mainstream audience.

[21:27] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[21:28] Can I guess the –

[21:29] The bottom is a tie.

[21:31] Is it Billy Lynn's long halftime walk?

[21:34] That is close but it's not.

Elliott Kalan

[21:36] Is it Ride with the Devil?

Dan McCoy

[21:37] No.

[21:38] Is it Smoke or – wait, Blue in the Face?

[21:40] Did he do that one?

[21:41] No, that's not him.

Elliott Kalan

[21:42] That's Wayne Wang I think.

Dan McCoy

[21:42] That's Wayne Wang.

[21:43] Sorry.

[21:44] I sound very racist now.

Elliott Kalan

[21:46] You're incredibly racist.

Stuart Wellington

[21:49] Okay.

[21:50] So the bottom two is Hulk and the other is a movie we covered here on the Flophouse.

Elliott Kalan

[21:57] Oh, the Gemini Man?

[21:58] Gemini Man.

[21:59] Oh, I totally forgot that he did that.

[22:01] I forgot that was him.

Stuart Wellington

[22:02] Just like my Gemini Dan here at Born in June.

[22:06] And then a little bit of a gap before Billy Lynn's halftime walk, long halftime walk.

[22:11] Then we have Ride with the Devil, taking Woodstock, pushing hands.

[22:15] And then we get to the Ice Storm which I think is – deserves better than that.

[22:18] Yeah.

[22:19] Yeah.

[22:20] And also –

Elliott Kalan

[22:21] They can only – when you got – he's a great director.

[22:22] When you got so many good movies, they can't all be at the top.

Stuart Wellington

[22:24] He does have a lot of good movies.

[22:27] Most of his filmography is above seven which is pretty good.

[22:31] Yeah.

[22:31] And I'm just going to say it too.

Elliott Kalan

[22:32] Dan, you may be a racist but Wayne Wang also has a lot of great movies.

Stuart Wellington

[22:36] Mm-hmm.

[22:37] Lust Caution is on there.

[22:38] I'm a big fan of Lust Caution.

[22:39] Oh, I never saw Lust Caution.

[22:41] Just not.

[22:41] It took me a while because I had to – I'm like, wait, there's an NC-17 version out there.

[22:46] I need to track that thing down.

[22:48] The only ones on streaming is the R-rated and that's not for me.

[22:53] Because I'm a maniac that feels like I need to see – like I'm like, I won't be experiencing the full thing.

[22:59] And it's also like a two-and-a-half-hour movie and I'm like, well, I'm not going to watch it twice.

[23:05] I also have never seen his Sense and Sensibility.

[23:09] It's very good.

[23:10] It's very, very good.

Elliott Kalan

[23:11] That I think is – you could say that that is up there with the Pride and Prejudice miniseries and Clueless as like the best adaptations of Jane Austen's work into film and television.

[23:25] You know?

Stuart Wellington

[23:26] It's really good.

[23:56] Mike Lee, but yeah, it's spelled differently.

[24:00] Okay.

[24:00] So he's a classic goofster here.

[24:04] Real classic funny man.

[24:06] I have to say –

[24:07] I mean there's some very funny movies that he did.

Elliott Kalan

[24:09] There's a lot of Mike Lee that I haven't seen.

[24:11] He's a blind spot for me.

Stuart Wellington

[24:13] The few I've seen I like so much, but I'm also like, oh, I got to be emotionally ready for this one.

Dan McCoy

[24:19] I mean like if it's Naked, sure.

[24:21] But if it's – I mean like Topsy-Turvy or Happy-Go-Lucky.

Elliott Kalan

[24:24] I was like, I don't know what mindset.

[24:25] I got to be in a watch this.

[24:26] But it is not what I'm in right now.

[24:28] You know?

[24:28] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[24:29] I feel like Naked reminds me too much of like I am stuck at the bar talking to this nightmare of a person.

[24:37] Okay.

[24:38] So 15 movies in his filmography.

[24:40] What do we think number one is?

[24:42] What's the tops?

[24:43] I'm going to guess just because I think it's the biggest name, Secrets and Lies.

[24:47] That's what I would guess also.

[24:48] Yeah.

[24:48] You slam dunked it there, dude.

[24:50] Secrets and Lies with a bit of a gap before Vera Drake.

[24:54] Oh, I never saw Vera Drake.

[24:56] I have no idea what her deal is.

[24:58] But that's kind of notable just because –

[25:01] You never will know, Dan.

[25:02] I won't tell you.

[25:04] I must know about Vera Drake.

[25:06] I simply must.

[25:08] Vera Drake is definitely like a mid-career movie.

Elliott Kalan

[25:10] Stuart, what are you going to say?

Stuart Wellington

[25:14] That's kind of a mid-career movie for him coming out in 2004.

[25:20] Yeah.

[25:20] Do we have a guess what the low one would be?

Elliott Kalan

[25:24] I'm going to guess it's something you did for television, like a TV movie that hasn't made it to the U.S.

Dan McCoy

[25:28] I feel like the things that are going to be lower in his filmography I may not even be familiar with.

[25:33] I mean I do feel like I know a lot of them.

[25:35] But –

Stuart Wellington

[25:36] Oh, that's that guy who has sex with the pig.

[25:41] Yeah.

[25:42] In Black Mirror?

[25:43] Yeah.

[25:44] That actor, yeah.

[25:45] From Men.

[25:47] So his bottoms are Two Mikes Don't Make a Right, but that is a – he just does a segment there.

[25:52] And then he also directed a movie called Peterloo.

[25:56] I've never heard of that.

[25:57] Mr. Turner.

[25:58] Mr. Turner's at the bottom?

[26:00] Yeah.

[26:00] That movie's great.

[26:02] That one I never saw.

[26:02] That's one about the painter.

[26:03] That low is still a decent score.

[26:06] That's a 6.8.

[26:07] Okay.

[26:07] But it's still fairly low.

[26:09] I haven't seen it.

[26:09] What's the deal with Mr. Turner?

[26:11] It's about Turner.

Dan McCoy

[26:12] Turner the painter.

[26:13] The English painter who – he did a lot of atmospheric effects in his –

[26:17] Known for his landscapes, yeah.

[26:19] Landscapes.

[26:20] And –

[26:21] When I was –

[26:21] I mean, I guess the character of Mr. Turner is kind of unpleasant to spend time with, but –

Elliott Kalan

[26:27] They tried to soften him with Mr. Hooch, but it didn't work, yeah.

[26:29] Yeah.

[26:31] When I was 13, my grandmother took –

Stuart Wellington

[26:34] Mike Lee's Turner and Hooch would be way sadder.

Elliott Kalan

[26:36] It would be much sadder.

[26:38] So it would all take place after Hooch dies.

[26:41] When I was 13, my grandmother took me and my sister and my cousin to England because we're all turning 13.

[26:46] And we went to the National Gallery because my grandmother was like, you have to see the Turners.

[26:49] You have to see the clouds and the skies in the Turner paintings.

[26:52] And I remember it making no impact on me whatsoever.

[26:55] And so maybe I got to watch the movie to really get it.

Dan McCoy

[26:57] I can see that making no impact on you.

[26:59] At that age.

[27:01] Yeah.

[27:01] We just went to Chicago fairly recently for a live show.

[27:07] I mean – and by that I mean within the last few months.

[27:10] And I went to the art museum there in Chicago and they had a bunch of Turner paintings.

[27:17] And I was – you know, I thought they were gorgeous.

[27:19] And I – you know, as someone who has like amateurish – amateurish – you can't even say the word.

[27:26] As someone who's an amateur painter myself, I was astounded at the effects that he could get.

[27:33] I couldn't even imagine.

Elliott Kalan

[27:36] I got to watch that movie now so I can find out how he did it.

Stuart Wellington

[27:39] I got to see the – clouds is what I'm looking for.

Dan McCoy

[27:42] Yeah.

[27:42] Clouds.

[27:43] Okay, dude.

[27:44] Dust in the air.

[27:45] You know, all the stuff.

[27:46] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[27:47] Okay.

[27:48] So we're going from the – what kind of the – how would we describe the works of Mike Lee?

[27:53] Like –

[27:54] Realistic.

[27:56] Realistic, improvisational, you know, character-based.

[27:59] I feel – I guess not necessarily harsh, but I feel like there's a – there's a starkness.

[28:05] There's a roughness to them.

[28:05] Yeah, yeah.

[28:06] Yeah.

[28:07] So we're moving from that to something a little more punchy and fun.

[28:11] We're going to talk about director Catherine Bigelow.

[28:14] Sure.

[28:16] Catherine Bigelow.

[28:18] So let's – we got a – let me just pull this up real quick.

Elliott Kalan

[28:21] I'm going to guess the number one – the top one is either going to be what?

[28:23] Hurt Locker or Point Break?

[28:25] No.

Stuart Wellington

[28:26] That's not what I'm looking for.

[28:27] Yeah, there we go.

[28:28] Okay.

[28:29] So number one, what do you think?

[28:30] Hurt Locker?

[28:31] Hurt Locker or Point Break?

[28:33] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[28:35] Yeah, I think that that's probably true, one of those.

Stuart Wellington

[28:38] It's a pretty tight grouping here, actually, for –

[28:42] Near Dark better be pretty high up.

[28:44] Well, for most of them, it's a pretty tight grouping.

[28:46] Number one is the Hurt Locker, just barely edging out.

[28:50] Zero Dark Thirty.

Dan McCoy

[28:51] Oh.

[28:51] Oh, I forgot you did a Zero Dark Thirty.

[28:53] I would say a much lower movie than Hurt Locker or Point Break.

Stuart Wellington

[29:00] But Point Break is actually tied with – for third place tied with Detroit, a movie I've known.

[29:07] Oh, right.

[29:08] I'm surprised Detroit is that high up.

[29:09] I totally forgot about Detroit.

[29:09] Huh.

[29:10] Yeah.

[29:11] But again, these are – specifically Detroit and also Zero Dark Thirty are kind of later, at least more current in her career.

[29:18] Those are post-Hurt Locker.

Dan McCoy

[29:19] Yeah.

[29:19] I've got a pretty solid guess, I think, for lowest.

[29:21] I think so, too.

[29:22] I'm going to say Loveless.

[29:24] I was also going to say Loveless.

Stuart Wellington

[29:25] Yeah.

[29:26] Very close, but not the bottom.

[29:28] Oh, really?

[29:29] The bottom by .2 points.

[29:32] Not Strange Days, is it?

[29:34] Blue Steel.

[29:35] That is –

[29:35] Oh, Blue Steel.

[29:36] That makes sense.

Elliott Kalan

[29:37] Buzzing crazy.

[29:38] That makes sense, I guess.

Stuart Wellington

[29:39] I mean, it makes sense, but it is like – maybe it's because you have to like get into the wackiness of it.

[29:46] Yeah.

[29:46] Yeah, that is not a movie that I think –

[29:47] But you get like Clancy Brown's ass in it.

[29:49] Who doesn't want that?

[29:50] You get a couple of points just for that.

Dan McCoy

[29:52] I'm surprised that movie exists in reality as we know it, and I think people expect it to.

[29:57] Yeah.

[29:57] Oh, yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[29:58] I'm surprised it's not Loveless because Loveless is such a – is like – is also like such a like Stark movie.

[30:04] Like it's such a – like it's not a movie that invites you in in any way, you know?

Stuart Wellington

[30:08] I've never seen it.

[30:09] What's the deal there?

[30:10] Willem Dafoe –

Elliott Kalan

[30:11] Oh, Willem Dafoe?

[30:12] Yeah, he's a biker, and he rides into a small town in the, what, 50s or 60s, and it's like a lot of hanging out in this town.

[30:18] Oh, yeah.

[30:18] I've seen some stuff of that.

[30:19] You know, and then a bad secret comes out in town and, you know, it's a –

Dan McCoy

[30:23] I only know it by reputation, but it's my impression that it's like closer to an art film from her than the other –

Elliott Kalan

[30:29] Yes, it definitely feels much more like a student film or an independent film, especially compared to her later work.

[30:34] It feels much more like someone who's trying to make an – almost like a – trying to make like a David Lynch type movie but without the weirdness.

[30:42] Yeah.

[30:43] But it plays with some of the same kind of like 50s, you know, iconography and stuff like that.

Stuart Wellington

[30:49] So the upper half, we have movies like Point Break, obviously great.

[30:52] We also have Strange Days, which is – it's nice to see that that –

[30:55] I was afraid that was going to be down at the bottom, yeah.

[30:57] Yeah.

[30:58] Yeah.

[30:58] And it's – from what I can tell, that's still really hard to get a hold of, right?

[31:02] Has it not – is it like not streaming anywhere or something?

[31:05] I feel like for a while it was hard to see.

Dan McCoy

[31:07] I do know that it was hard to see on streaming for a long time.

[31:10] I have like a disc of it somewhere, so –

Elliott Kalan

[31:12] Actually, according to the internet, it might be on Hulu, which means it would be on Disney+.

[31:16] Oh, wow.

[31:17] So it must be much easier to get to, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[31:18] Real turnaround for Strange Days.

[31:20] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[31:21] Like when I'm done watching, I don't know, The Mandalorian and Grogu, I'll pop on Strange Days to nostalgia myself.

[31:28] I like science fiction.

[31:29] What's this?

Dan McCoy

[31:30] I like Tom Sizemore.

[31:33] Tom Sizemore acting totally normal.

[31:35] Yeah.

[31:36] In the normal way.

[31:38] Yeah.

[31:39] Normal.

Stuart Wellington

[31:40] I mean I feel like the through line for Disney+, is Angela Bassett having an amazing set of shoulders.

[31:49] It comes between that movie and the –

[31:53] Black Panther.

[31:54] Black Panther.

Elliott Kalan

[31:55] Most people talk about her arms.

[31:56] We could talk about her shoulders too.

[31:57] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[31:57] I feel like –

[31:58] What's Love Got To Do With It is on Hulu.

Elliott Kalan

[32:01] Yeah, see?

[32:02] Which means it's probably on Disney+.

[32:03] Exactly.

Stuart Wellington

[32:03] What's Love Got To Do With It is like one of the only musician biopics I like.

[32:10] I still haven't seen it.

[32:11] I have my watch list.

[32:11] It's like a vilified genre for me.

[32:14] Everything is like What's Love Got To Do With It and Walk Hard.

[32:17] Those are the only two.

Elliott Kalan

[32:18] I mean Walk the Line is I think is a pretty good movie.

[32:21] It's a pretty solid movie.

Stuart Wellington

[32:22] I like Walk Hard more.

Elliott Kalan

[32:24] I mean they're not doing the same thing.

[32:26] That's not really a biopic.

[32:27] What are you talking about?

[32:30] Stewart's been a big fan of Dewey Cox for years.

[32:34] Loves his music.

Dan McCoy

[32:34] When's he going to put out another album he keeps asking.

Stuart Wellington

[32:36] I do have to point out in the bottom half here we have –

[32:40] Near Dark is like straight in the middle.

[32:42] That should be much higher up.

[32:43] Bottom half is K-19, The Widowmaker.

[32:46] What's the deal there?

[32:48] It's kind of boring I remember.

[32:49] Yeah.

[32:50] That's respectable but boring.

[32:51] Is it like Tom Clancy?

[32:52] It's a submarine movie.

Dan McCoy

[32:54] It's not a –

[32:54] No, it's based on an actual incident in Russia.

[32:58] I don't know much about it.

[32:59] I tried to watch it because I'm like what?

[33:02] Catherine Bigelow did a Harrison Ford submarine movie?

[33:05] I love this and it was very, very boring as far as I recall.

Stuart Wellington

[33:10] I mean I feel like the –

[33:11] I guess with a title like K-19, The Widowmaker,

[33:14] that's either going to be like –

[33:15] it's either going to be a really awesome like wrestler or something.

[33:21] Or it's too complicated of a title I would say.

[33:25] So Catherine Bigelow, any through line here?

[33:28] How would we describe Catherine Bigelow's –

[33:31] Tough.

Stuart Wellington

[33:32] Real tough.

[33:32] I mean I feel like she –

[33:34] with movies like Blue Steel and especially Point Break

[33:37] kind of set a –

[33:39] like a look and a feel for action movies

[33:42] that was then like adopted by guys like Michael Bay.

[33:47] Yeah, yeah.

Dan McCoy

[33:47] Oh, for sure.

[33:48] A more heightened intense sort of vibe

[33:51] that like maybe isn't 100% based in reality

[33:55] but has a lot of kinetic energy.

[33:58] But I feel like there's something –

Stuart Wellington

[34:00] I like the way that her stuff isn't connected to reality

[34:04] as opposed to like –

[34:05] I feel like a Jerry Bruckheimer or something

[34:07] or a Michael Bay type thing.

[34:09] Well, she's always –

Elliott Kalan

[34:09] I think when she's working in that heightened reality,

[34:11] it's great.

[34:12] But she's done a couple of like true life movies

[34:14] or movies trying to present true life.

[34:15] And I think there it's a mismatch for me.

[34:19] Like Zero Dark Thirty is a mismatch

[34:21] because it's like we don't live in the world

[34:24] that that movie says we live in.

[34:26] You know, it's like a –

[34:28] Yeah.

[34:29] It's the action movie thing of like,

[34:30] well, you need to torture people of course.

[34:32] But it's like, oh, I don't –

[34:33] this is a weird –

[34:34] this is not the subject matter

[34:35] that I think is right for that.

Stuart Wellington

[34:36] Yes.

[34:37] And where there's something about like a movie like Point Break

[34:41] where we are to believe that these,

[34:43] you know, like surfing bank robbers

[34:46] that this –

[34:47] that we are like thrust into this world

[34:49] and we're like we buy

[34:51] that we are in this heightened strange universe.

[34:53] As soon as they're surfing bank robbers,

Elliott Kalan

[34:55] you're like, well, this is going to be a –

[34:57] this is not the real world that we exist in.

[34:59] But when it's something like The Hurt Locker,

[35:00] I think you get people walking away from it being like,

[35:02] well, that's what bomb disposal units are like

[35:04] in Afghanistan or Iraq

[35:05] is they just –

[35:06] it's three guys who just kind of cowboy around

[35:08] having adventures when it's not reality.

[35:11] You know, it's a –

[35:12] I think when she's –

[35:13] when it's not –

[35:14] when she's blurring the line

[35:15] between reality and irreality,

[35:17] I don't like it as much.

[35:18] But when it's patently unreal,

[35:20] when it's about a bunch of vampires

[35:21] tooling around the country,

[35:23] that's –

[35:23] I love that.

Stuart Wellington

[35:24] Or Ron Silver who becomes addicted to guns.

[35:26] Exactly.

[35:29] Okay, so –

[35:30] This is what I've been missing.

[35:30] So we're going to move over

[35:32] from Catherine Bigelow to I think one of –

[35:34] Catherine Smololo.

[35:37] We're moving over to,

[35:38] I would say,

[35:39] one of the patron saint –

[35:42] not patron saints,

[35:43] but one of the Mount Rushmore

[35:45] of Flophouse directors

[35:46] that I think we all love

[35:48] and can get behind,

[35:49] Mr. John Carpenter.

[35:51] We all love this irascible old man

[35:52] who wants to play video games

[35:54] and smoke weed

[35:55] and cash checks based on –

[35:58] cash checks from remakes of his work.

[36:01] What do we think is IMDb users'

[36:04] top John Carpenter movie

[36:06] of his 18 movies?

Elliott Kalan

[36:09] I imagine it's either The Thing

[36:10] or Big Trouble in Little China

Dan McCoy

[36:11] would be my guess.

[36:12] Or possibly Halloween,

[36:13] but I'm betting –

[36:15] Nah, I don't think it's Halloween.

[36:16] The Thing.

Stuart Wellington

[36:17] You guys are both right.

[36:18] It's The Thing is number one

[36:20] followed by Halloween.

[36:23] Oh, I'm surprised Halloween's that high up.

[36:25] And in the bottom,

[36:26] I don't think these are going to be shockers.

[36:28] How many ghosts

Elliott Kalan

[36:29] and what planet are they from?

Dan McCoy

[36:32] I personally like The Ward

[36:34] a little bit more than I like

[36:35] what the Children of the Damned.

[36:39] Village of the Damned.

[36:41] But I'm going to say –

[36:43] I'm going to guess

[36:43] that The Ward made it to the bottom.

Stuart Wellington

[36:45] Yeah, the bottom is Ghosts of Mars.

[36:47] That's a really, yeah.

[36:48] By a sizable margin,

[36:50] and then above –

[36:51] Ghosts of Mars is below five,

[36:53] which is pretty rough.

[36:54] Yeah.

[36:56] The Ward is the second to the bottom.

[36:58] Village of the Damned

[36:59] is third from the bottom.

[37:01] And then right above that,

[37:03] Escape from L.A.,

[37:04] a movie that I think

[37:05] has gotten a little bit of a –

[37:06] I like Escape from L.A.

[37:07] a little bit of an unfair animation.

Elliott Kalan

[37:08] I think it's –

[37:09] I think people who didn't –

[37:10] I think there are a lot of people

[37:11] who saw Escape from New York

[37:12] did not realize

[37:13] it is partly a joke movie.

[37:15] Yes.

[37:15] And then saw Escape from L.A.

[37:16] and thought it was a huge –

[37:18] I mean, also saw Escape from L.A.

[37:19] years later when it came out

[37:20] and thought it was a huge –

[37:22] like they thought it was

[37:22] a Gremlins, Gremlins 2 type thing.

[37:25] But when you watch

[37:25] those movies together,

[37:26] you're like,

[37:26] these movies fit together pretty well.

[37:28] Like they don't –

[37:29] they're not that different from each other.

[37:30] Yeah.

[37:31] Get to Escape from L.A.

[37:31] is a little sillier.

[37:32] The fact that he has to avoid death

[37:34] by shooting 10 baskets in a row

[37:35] is kind of silly.

[37:36] But, you know.

Dan McCoy

[37:36] I find it kind of nutty that –

[37:38] Silly?

[37:40] What?

[37:40] He's shooting baskets at me.

[37:42] That's true.

[37:43] Do you not see how the Knicks

[37:45] just brought the city together?

[37:47] Thank you.

Elliott Kalan

[37:48] Not L.A.

[37:48] They brought a different city together.

[37:50] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[37:51] This is really dating.

[37:52] This is going to come out

[37:53] like a month after we –

[37:54] No, I'm really surprised

[37:57] that Ghost of Mars

[37:57] is the absolute bottom one

[37:59] because I will say that like –

[38:00] I actually haven't watched it.

[38:02] That movie is not great

[38:03] but it has more

[38:04] John Carpenter vibes

[38:06] like which is what you want

[38:08] than some of the others.

Elliott Kalan

[38:09] But I think it is the most famously bad

[38:11] of his movies.

[38:12] So I think it might be a matter

[38:13] of more people seeing it

[38:15] and voting for that –

[38:16] Exactly.

[38:17] Yeah.

[38:17] Exactly.

[38:17] Whereas The Ward can slip by

[38:19] because people just don't know it that well.

[38:21] People probably forget

[38:22] that he made that, you know?

[38:23] Yeah.

[38:23] I assume In the Mouth of Madness

[38:24] is in the middle

[38:25] when it should be towards the top.

Dan McCoy

[38:28] It is –

[38:29] Yeah.

[38:30] It's like top middle.

[38:32] Yeah.

[38:32] Where's Memoirs of an Invisible Man?

Stuart Wellington

[38:34] That's right –

[38:35] what is slightly above Escape from L.A.

[38:38] is Memoirs of an Invisible Man,

[38:39] a movie that I have a soft spot for.

Elliott Kalan

[38:42] I do too.

[38:43] I think if it was not Chevy Chase,

[38:44] that movie would be thought better of.

Stuart Wellington

[38:47] And right above that is Vampires

[38:49] and Dark Star

[38:50] with a tie.

[38:51] Vampires has some okay stuff in it.

[38:53] Dark Star is much better than Vampires.

[38:55] Yeah, I would put Dark Star way higher.

[38:56] Yeah, well –

[38:57] But again, it's amazing.

[38:58] But also Dark Star gets kind of boring in the middle,

Elliott Kalan

[39:01] you know?

Stuart Wellington

[39:02] And right above –

[39:02] I mean, there's –

[39:04] right above that is Prince of Darkness,

[39:06] which is one of my top five.

[39:07] That's one of my faves.

[39:08] Prince of Darkness is a really good one.

[39:08] Yeah.

[39:09] It's so cool and weird

[39:11] and like specifically John Carpenter-y.

[39:13] So Starman must be pretty high up, right?

[39:15] Nope.

[39:15] It's fairly low.

[39:17] Like low middle.

[39:17] Okay.

[39:18] It's below In the Mouth of Madness

[39:19] along with Escape from New York.

[39:21] I mean, a lot of like –

[39:23] I feel like there's a big mix of them in there.

[39:26] I mean, also –

[39:26] The Tops are The Thing, Halloween,

[39:29] Assault on Precinct 13,

[39:31] and They Live,

[39:33] and then Big Trouble in Little China.

Elliott Kalan

[39:34] The Thing is also like

[39:35] when you've got a really good filmography,

[39:38] movies just have –

[39:38] there's only so many slots.

[39:39] So a movie has to get –

[39:40] it can't be like,

[39:41] there's a 10-way tie for fourth place.

[39:44] Yes.

Stuart Wellington

[39:44] I do think it's kind of funny

[39:45] that the tide for fourth place

[39:48] is They Live and Big Trouble in Little China,

[39:50] two movies that feel very spiritually.

[39:52] Yes.

[39:53] Yeah, very spiritually.

[39:54] It's operating in the same register, let's say.

[39:56] Yeah.

[39:56] Oh, man.

[39:57] What bangers.

[39:59] And both featuring gentlemen

[40:01] with very cool haircuts.

[40:03] I was at one of my bars for Pride yesterday,

[40:08] and I had a guy tell me

[40:09] my hair looked very Kurt Russell,

[40:11] and I was like,

[40:11] that is by design, sir.

[40:14] Thank you.

[40:15] But yeah, I think we can all say –

[40:16] You're like I've always loved Captain Ron.

[40:19] Yeah.

[40:21] So –

[40:21] Oh, Captain, my captain, Stuart says.

[40:24] How would we describe the works of John Carpenter

[40:28] in a few sentences?

Dan McCoy

[40:32] Well, he has like elegant widescreen

[40:34] like framings of things.

[40:36] He –

[40:37] I don't know.

[40:38] Like a lot of it is vibes.

[40:40] Like he's a very –

[40:41] I mean, he provides those vibes

[40:42] with his synthesizer score.

[40:43] With his keyboard, yeah.

[40:44] Yeah.

[40:45] Like he like defined a certain 80s feel.

Elliott Kalan

[40:48] I would say not elevated genre,

[40:52] but like perfected is too far,

[40:56] but like clarified genre.

[40:58] Like his movies take genre types of stories

[41:00] and clarifies what's best about them

[41:03] and tosses away the stuff you don't need as much.

[41:06] So it's not –

[41:07] When you say elevated,

[41:08] it makes it sound like you like –

[41:10] the person feels ashamed to be working in this genre

[41:12] and so they're trying to make it seem

[41:13] like a more artier movie.

[41:15] Whereas what he does is he's like,

[41:17] what's the best version of this story

[41:18] that I'm telling that is a genre story?

[41:21] How do I get those genre thrills across

[41:23] in a way that becomes elegant and beautiful

[41:27] because I'm doing it so well basically?

[41:29] Like that's the thing to me

[41:30] is the thing is like,

[41:31] I'm going to do a science fiction thriller

[41:32] and it is not a –

[41:34] I'm not doing it by trying to like art up a B movie.

[41:39] Instead, I'm trying to do

[41:39] what's the best version of this movie, you know?

Dan McCoy

[41:42] He also was like so specifically like a Western fan

[41:45] that you see that like a lot of his movies

[41:46] are like Westerns under the surface.

Elliott Kalan

[41:50] He never made a Western though, right?

Dan McCoy

[41:52] I mean, no.

[41:53] I mean like vampires.

[41:54] Vampires is the coolest.

[41:55] It's kind of like a Western,

Elliott Kalan

[41:56] but again, it's a vampire movie.

[41:57] It's not a –

[41:58] It's not a –

[41:59] Yeah.

[42:00] It's less of a Western

[42:01] than Billy the Kid meets Dracula,

[42:02] you know, I think.

Stuart Wellington

[42:03] But I feel like there's –

[42:04] I think there's also something about the idea of like

[42:07] not making a Western means

[42:09] that he can like lean into the

[42:12] almost exploitative thrills of a Western movie

[42:16] without risking any like, you know,

[42:18] cowboys versus Indians or something bullshit.

[42:21] Okay.

[42:22] I'm sorry guys.

Elliott Kalan

[42:23] It's Billy the Kid versus Dracula.

[42:24] I should have known that they would fight each other.

[42:26] They would not –

[42:26] They would not tell around.

[42:28] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[42:28] Jesse James met Frankenstein's daughter.

[42:30] They're not Milo and Otis over here.

[42:31] No.

Dan McCoy

[42:32] Now, what did Bella Lugosi do with a Brooklyn gorilla?

Elliott Kalan

[42:35] It wasn't good.

[42:36] It was not good.

[42:37] Okay.

[42:38] It was like that Black Mirror episode

[42:39] Stuart was talking about.

S4

[42:44] Hey, Max Fun listeners.

[42:46] It's me, Jackie Cation.

[42:47] I have a podcast with Lori Kilmartin.

[42:49] Say hi, Lori.

[42:49] Hi, Jacqueline.

[42:50] Hi, Max Fun listeners.

[42:53] But I'm very formal.

[42:55] We have a podcast and it's about stand-up comedy

[42:57] and how much we love it

[42:58] and how much we dislike some of it.

[43:01] So listen to that podcast.

[43:03] It's called The Jackie and Lori Show.

[43:04] We drop new episodes every Wednesday

[43:07] that gives us plenty of time to decompress

[43:09] from our comedy weekends

[43:10] and discuss things with sane level heads.

[43:14] No, it doesn't.

[43:15] If you are a woman our age or a man our age,

[43:19] or you know what?

[43:19] Any person of any age.

[43:21] I think you'll enjoy our podcast.

[43:23] Jackie and Lori Show on MaximumFun.org.

[43:25] Bye.

[43:29] Are you a celebrity?

S5

[43:31] Are you searching for meaning, connection,

[43:33] and a little levity these days?

[43:35] Hi, I'm Kumail Nanjiani,

[43:37] actor, writer, and yes, a celebrity too.

[43:40] And I've got four words for you.

[43:43] Bullseye with Jesse Thorne.

[43:46] Are you tired of junkets?

[43:48] Red carpets?

[43:49] Sick of the endless spicy snacks you have to eat?

[43:52] Do you want to connect with someone who gets your work

[43:54] and laugh with you a little?

[43:57] Join me, Andre 3000, Tom Hanks, Tina Fey,

[44:00] and many more and become a guest on Bullseye

[44:02] with Jesse Thorne from NPR and Maximum Fun.

Stuart Wellington

[44:08] Hey, folks.

[44:11] The Flophouse is brought to you today by Squarespace.

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Elliott Kalan

[45:34] Before we move on,

[45:35] I wanted to take a moment to tell people

[45:37] that Joke Farming,

[45:38] How to Write Comedy and Other Nonsense,

[45:40] my joke writing book

[45:41] from the University of Chicago Press

[45:43] is now available in audio book form.

[45:46] Let's say you don't want to read it with your eyes.

[45:48] Let's say you want to listen to my mellifluous tones

[45:51] as they read the book to you

[45:53] while you do other things.

[45:55] Now you can do just that.

[45:56] Joke Farming, the audio book as read by me, the author,

[46:00] but I didn't read it that way,

[46:01] is available wherever you can buy

[46:03] and download audio books.

[46:04] Please do buy it, listen to it, share it.

[46:08] It is all of my joke writing wisdom

[46:10] in one place for you.

[46:13] And I hope you enjoy.

Stuart Wellington

[46:14] We have three left in my list here.

[46:17] We're going to the realms of comedy

[46:19] with director Star.

[46:21] I mean, I think we all know him best

[46:23] as one of the actors in beloved movie Ski Patrol.

[46:27] That is director Paul Feig,

[46:29] who has a number of movies under his belt.

[46:33] Paul Feig.

Dan McCoy

[46:37] You're going to put Bridesmaids up at the top,

[46:39] I'm guessing.

Elliott Kalan

[46:40] Yeah, I'm guessing that's probably at the top.

[46:42] 20 movies.

Stuart Wellington

[46:43] Directed 20 movies.

[46:44] Really?

[46:45] I think I can name four of them.

[46:48] Yeah.

Elliott Kalan

[46:49] And just because of the people who vote on IMDb,

[46:52] I'm going to put Ghostbusters at the bottom,

[46:53] even though I don't think it deserves to be.

Dan McCoy

[46:54] Oh, I'm going to guess unaccompanied minors.

[46:57] But were we right about Bridesmaids at the top?

Stuart Wellington

[46:59] You guys are wrong about Bridesmaids.

[47:01] Okay.

[47:01] Oh.

[47:01] But not by much.

[47:03] It's a fairly close grouping.

[47:06] The spy.

[47:07] I was going to say spy also.

[47:08] Spy is number two.

[47:10] A simple favor.

[47:11] Spy.

[47:13] Simple favor is actually,

[47:15] yeah, it's kind of in the middle there.

[47:17] Is Ghostbusters number one?

[47:20] Ghostbusters is number three.

[47:22] Wow.

[47:23] Tied with Bridesmaids,

[47:24] which I'm kind of surprised by.

[47:27] Not just because they-

[47:28] Brides by?

[47:28] Yes.

[47:29] Number one is a movie called I Am David.

[47:33] Oh, wow.

[47:34] A 12-year-old boy escapes from a Bulgarian

[47:36] communist concentration camp

[47:37] and sets out on a journey to reach Denmark.

[47:40] No, thank you.

[47:42] Not necessarily.

Dan McCoy

[47:43] No, thank you, Mr. Freak.

[47:44] I don't need it.

Elliott Kalan

[47:45] This was his directorial debut.

[47:47] Apparently, I don't know this movie at all.

[47:49] Yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[47:50] But then Spy is a movie that,

[47:53] I mean, it taught the world that Jason Statham

[47:56] can be pretty fucking funny.

[47:58] I think the world knew that.

[47:59] Other than his other,

Dan McCoy

[48:00] his barely serious action movies that he was-

Stuart Wellington

[48:04] But I mean, like, I feel like at this,

[48:06] I mean, there was a stone-facedness

[48:09] with nary a wink at the camera

[48:11] and a lot of his other stuff.

[48:14] The Housemaid, pretty good,

[48:16] pretty good,

[48:17] Housemaid and Simple Favor,

[48:18] which is like,

[48:19] I do kind of like his, like,

[48:21] pivot to, like,

[48:23] kind of sexy thrillers.

[48:24] Yeah, light trash.

[48:25] I enjoy it.

[48:25] Light trash.

[48:28] We also, of course, get,

[48:30] Unaccompanied Miners is low,

[48:31] but not the bottom.

[48:32] The bottom is

[48:33] Another Simple Favor.

[48:36] Oh, yeah.

[48:37] Well, not that good.

[48:39] Not that good at all.

[48:42] And-

Dan McCoy

[48:42] We briefly talked about doing it

[48:43] for the Flophouse,

[48:44] and then the time passed.

Stuart Wellington

[48:45] And then, but we do have,

[48:46] we do have a little movie

[48:48] that was featured on the Flophouse

[48:50] Last Christmas.

[48:52] Last Christmas,

[48:53] directed by Paul Feig.

[48:53] Which is one of the ones

[48:54] that he likes the most.

[48:55] Yeah, yeah.

[48:56] I forgot he did that one.

Elliott Kalan

[48:57] Paul Feig is someone who,

[48:59] he's made so many movies,

[49:00] and yet I've seen not a lot of them,

[49:03] and I feel like I forget most of them.

[49:04] Actually, I said 20 movies.

Stuart Wellington

[49:06] He only has 13 movies,

[49:07] but seven in upcoming.

[49:11] But, like, 13 movies is like,

[49:12] you're a filmmaker.

[49:13] You're a director.

[49:14] Like, you're a professional director.

[49:15] But, you know-

[49:16] I mean, he is a,

[49:18] I mean, when it comes to

[49:19] modern comedy directors,

[49:21] there aren't that many directors

[49:23] who have a name like Paul Feig.

[49:27] Like, you have, like,

[49:27] Adam McKay and Paul Feig.

[49:29] And, like, Judd Apatow.

[49:30] Judd Apatow.

[49:31] That's about it.

Elliott Kalan

[49:33] All favorites of mine,

[49:34] as we know.

Stuart Wellington

[49:35] But, I mean,

[49:36] one thing about Paul Feig is,

[49:37] again, like,

[49:37] we've talked about, like,

[49:38] the light trash,

[49:39] but I like that his light trash

[49:40] has, like, an element of edge.

[49:42] Like, both those movies,

[49:44] like, both simple favorites,

[49:45] and the housemaid,

[49:47] have, like, an edge to them

[49:49] that I was surprised by

[49:50] from a director

[49:51] who's known mainly for comedies.

[49:53] Yeah.

[49:54] Almost.

[49:55] So that it's hard to kind of,

[49:56] I mean, there's a,

[49:57] there's a,

[49:58] you could say that he's, like,

[50:00] a workman-like director

[50:01] and that he's,

[50:02] he puts out a lot of

[50:03] different types of things.

[50:04] But can you see any, like,

[50:06] through line with his work?

[50:08] Strong female characters.

[50:09] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[50:10] Yeah.

[50:11] I mean, there's a,

[50:12] I mean, there's a sense of humor

[50:14] even to the,

[50:15] like, the, like,

[50:16] the thriller stuff.

[50:17] Like, I mean,

[50:18] Simple Favor is much more

[50:19] overtly comic.

[50:20] Housemaid is more

[50:21] in the realm of, like,

[50:22] knowing camp.

[50:24] But, like,

[50:25] there is a certain...

Stuart Wellington

[50:27] Amanda Seyfried.

[50:28] Oh, what a performance

[50:29] from that one.

[50:30] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[50:31] No, but there's, like,

[50:32] there's a knowingness,

[50:33] there's, like,

[50:33] a tongue-in-cheek

[50:34] to even, like,

[50:35] the serious stuff,

[50:36] I would say.

[50:39] But, yeah,

[50:39] no, it's harder to point

[50:41] to directors' trademarks,

[50:44] as they used to call them,

[50:45] I think,

[50:46] on the AV Club.

Elliott Kalan

[50:47] I think he is not a,

[50:48] he is not a,

[50:50] he doesn't prioritize

[50:51] the visual

[50:52] in the way that

[50:53] many directors do,

[50:54] which I think makes it

[50:55] harder to find

[50:56] those trademarks,

[50:57] you know.

Stuart Wellington

[50:59] For our next director,

[51:00] we're going to move on

[51:01] to nominated often

[51:04] for best director,

[51:06] Mr. Guillermo del Toro.

[51:09] Oh.

[51:09] Guillermo del Toro.

[51:10] What do we think

[51:11] is number one?

[51:11] William of the Bull.

[51:12] Is top.

Elliott Kalan

[51:14] I'm going to say

[51:15] Pan's Labyrinth.

[51:19] Well, that's probably

[51:19] Shape of Water.

Dan McCoy

[51:20] Yeah, just for variety,

[51:22] I'm going to say

[51:22] Shape of Water.

[51:23] It is Pan's Labyrinth.

Stuart Wellington

[51:24] Shape of Water is,

[51:26] it's up there,

[51:27] but not,

[51:28] Pan's Labyrinth

[51:28] is pretty well,

[51:30] in a way,

[51:30] his number one.

[51:31] I think that's his,

[51:31] I think it's his best movie.

[51:32] I would agree with that.

[51:33] Number two is

[51:34] a bit of a surprise,

[51:36] but I appreciate it,

[51:38] is his Pinocchio,

[51:39] which I really loved.

[51:42] Yeah,

[51:42] that's a very special movie.

[51:44] That is a movie

[51:45] where like,

[51:45] Charlene and I watched it

[51:46] and then immediately

[51:47] started watching it again.

[51:49] And that and

[51:49] Devil's Backbone

[51:51] are my two personal favorites.

[51:52] I love Devil's Backbone so much.

[51:53] Devil's Backbone is,

Elliott Kalan

[51:54] that and Pan's Labyrinth

[51:54] are my two favorites.

[51:55] Look,

[51:56] if it's a movie that is,

[51:57] the title is P,

[51:57] vowel N,

[51:58] as the start of it,

[51:59] it's going to be good.

[52:00] It's going to be good.

Stuart Wellington

[52:01] What do we think

[52:02] is his bottoms here?

Elliott Kalan

[52:05] Crimson Peak.

Stuart Wellington

[52:08] Yeah, that's what I guess too.

[52:09] It's low,

Stuart Wellington

[52:09] but it's not the bottom.

[52:10] Is it Nightmare Alley?

[52:12] Nope,

[52:12] that's right in the middle there.

[52:15] Hellboy 2?

[52:16] Probably not, right?

[52:18] Hellboy 2 somehow

[52:19] .1 point higher

[52:23] than Hellboy,

[52:24] which is weird.

Elliott Kalan

[52:25] No, I don't know.

[52:25] I buy that.

[52:26] I buy that.

Stuart Wellington

[52:26] I don't,

[52:27] I guess it leans into

[52:28] the most Isley Cantina feel

[52:30] of the Hellboy.

Elliott Kalan

[52:30] Yes.

[52:31] And it's a little bit less silly

[52:32] than the first Hellboy movie.

Dan McCoy

[52:34] Could be a function of obscurity.

[52:37] Like,

[52:37] maybe it's Kronos.

[52:39] Is it Kronos?

[52:39] Kronos is third from the bottom.

[52:42] Kronos is.

[52:42] Pacific Rim.

Stuart Wellington

[52:43] It's Mimic, guys.

[52:45] Mimic.

[52:45] Oh, Mimic.

Elliott Kalan

[52:47] You know, I saw,

[52:47] that's a serviceable movie.

[52:49] Mimic is fine.

Stuart Wellington

[52:49] Yeah.

[52:50] I mean,

[52:50] I saw,

[52:51] yeah,

[52:51] I feel like he,

[52:53] I don't,

[52:54] I wouldn't say he has a,

Dan McCoy

[52:55] like a true stinker in his.

[52:57] I saw the director's cut

[52:59] of Mimic

[53:00] in a rep screening

[53:01] at Nighthawk

[53:01] and I'm like,

[53:02] hey,

[53:02] this is pretty good.

[53:03] Like,

[53:03] I,

[53:04] like,

[53:04] I don't know

[53:05] what was changed,

[53:07] but I enjoyed it

[53:08] much more than I remember

Elliott Kalan

[53:10] liking the original cut.

[53:11] I wonder if it,

[53:11] I wonder if it does more with,

[53:13] so this,

[53:13] I,

[53:14] before that movie came out,

[53:15] I was familiar with the short story

[53:16] it's based on,

[53:17] Mimic,

[53:17] because it was in the book

[53:18] 100 Creepy Creature Stories

[53:20] that I got at Barnes & Noble.

[53:22] That sounds like a young Elliot,

Stuart Wellington

[53:24] like,

[53:24] insta-bye.

Elliott Kalan

[53:25] I still have it.

[53:26] It's a great book.

[53:27] It's got a lot of great stories in it

[53:28] that I think of all the time.

[53:29] But Mimic,

[53:30] like,

[53:30] the whole purpose of that story is,

[53:32] oh,

[53:32] this guy has died

[53:33] and when they find his body,

[53:35] they realize he's actually a giant insect

[53:37] who is made to look like a person,

[53:39] that he's evolved to look like a person,

[53:41] so he can't go by.

[53:42] And at the end of it,

[53:42] they open up like a trunk

[53:43] and all these tiny little,

[53:45] these insects that look like tiny people

[53:46] fly away

[53:47] and then someone thinks they see

[53:48] a chimney opens its eyes

[53:50] and follows after them

[53:51] and starts eating them.

[53:52] And you're left with this idea of like,

[53:54] how many of these naturally occurring creatures

[53:57] that we just don't see

[53:58] because they're camouflaged

[53:58] as artificial things

[54:00] or people.

[54:01] And I feel like the movie

[54:02] throws away that idea pretty early

[54:04] and it just becomes big roaches.

[54:06] No,

Dan McCoy

[54:07] it's not a major,

[54:08] even in the version I saw,

[54:09] it wasn't a major point,

[54:10] but the version I saw

[54:11] was a little meaner.

[54:14] I think like,

[54:15] there was an attack on children

[54:17] that I'm like,

[54:18] oh my God,

Stuart Wellington

[54:18] I didn't think this would be.

[54:20] I mean,

Stuart Wellington

[54:20] that is something about,

[54:21] especially his early stuff

[54:23] is there's this feeling of like,

[54:25] well,

[54:25] the kids aren't safe.

[54:28] Yeah,

Elliott Kalan

[54:28] it's a hard world.

[54:29] It's a very hard world

[54:30] when you're in a del Toro.

Stuart Wellington

[54:32] Yeah,

[54:33] Kronos is kind of low on there,

[54:34] which is kind of a bummer.

[54:35] I like that one.

[54:36] That's a good one,

[54:37] yeah.

[54:37] And I,

[54:38] Blade 2 is right near the bottom

[54:40] and I think that is,

[54:41] it is a silly movie,

[54:43] but I feel like it is,

[54:45] it like captured

[54:46] the like visceral thrills

[54:48] of a superhero movie

[54:49] in a way that

[54:50] I don't think we'd really gotten

[54:52] at that point.

[54:54] And I,

[54:54] so I think that's a little bit

[54:55] of an unfair knock.

[54:57] Yeah.

[54:57] And also the mouse

[54:59] look like crazy vagina

[55:00] than Thomas.

[55:01] Yeah,

[55:01] come on,

[55:01] of course.

[55:01] Vampire mouse.

Elliott Kalan

[55:04] Was that where those

[55:04] Guy Davis designs?

[55:05] They must have been,

[55:06] right?

Stuart Wellington

[55:06] They must have been.

[55:08] Yeah.

[55:08] Yeah,

[55:09] but Del Toro,

[55:10] I feel like he makes

[55:12] Guy Davis artwork come to life.

[55:15] Yeah.

[55:15] He is a,

[55:17] he's a fantastical storyteller.

[55:19] He is a,

[55:20] he is a storyteller

[55:21] who likes to deal in like,

[55:24] like dark kind of fairy tales.

[55:27] He,

[55:27] there's obviously a lot of passion,

[55:30] both like,

[55:31] like strong emotion

[55:33] in his work.

[55:36] Gothic.

[55:37] You're looking for themes.

[55:38] That's a word I use to describe his stuff.

[55:39] Yeah.

Dan McCoy

[55:40] Yeah,

[55:41] no,

[55:41] it was sort of a

[55:42] intricate design.

[55:44] I mean,

[55:44] clearly his love of

[55:46] the genre,

[55:47] love of horror,

[55:49] like just sort of manifests

[55:51] and let me

[55:52] put sort of

[55:54] a melange

[55:55] of like

[55:55] these,

[55:56] this imagery

[55:57] on,

[55:57] on screen.

Stuart Wellington

[55:58] So guys,

[55:59] we are to our

[56:01] final filmmaker

[56:02] of the night.

[56:03] We are going to be talking about

[56:05] Mr.

[56:06] David Lynch.

[56:08] David Lynch.

[56:10] Davey Lee.

[56:11] Lynch.

Dan McCoy

[56:13] Davey Lee Roth.

[56:18] Give me two seconds

[56:19] while I,

[56:21] give me two seconds,

[56:23] give me two seconds,

[56:24] Mr.

[56:25] while I look up

[56:26] IMDB.

[56:27] What am I going to guess

Elliott Kalan

[56:28] his lowest movie is?

Dan McCoy

[56:29] Oh,

[56:30] I have a pretty,

[56:31] Inland Empire?

[56:31] Yeah,

[56:32] I would say Inland Empire.

Elliott Kalan

[56:34] number one is like,

Dan McCoy

[56:35] the most difficult one.

Elliott Kalan

[56:36] Yeah.

[56:37] And number one,

[56:37] I would guess is,

[56:39] I don't know,

[56:41] Blue Velvet maybe?

[56:42] Mulholland Drive?

Dan McCoy

[56:43] I think these days,

[56:45] Mulholland Drive

[56:46] will be the consensus,

[56:47] but I could see Blue Velvet.

Elliott Kalan

[56:50] I feel like sometimes

[56:51] there's a movie,

[56:52] maybe it's not the way

[56:52] it used to be.

[56:53] There used to be a time

[56:54] when I feel like

[56:54] the movie that people would say

[56:55] was the best of a director

[56:56] was just the best known movie.

[56:58] Yeah.

[56:59] It's like,

[56:59] oh,

[56:59] well,

[56:59] that's their signature movie,

[57:00] so of course that's the best one.

[57:01] You know?

[57:02] And that has changed

[57:03] a little bit,

[57:03] maybe.

[57:04] I think you'll be surprised

[57:06] by the top.

Stuart Wellington

[57:07] Inland Empire.

[57:08] Elephant Man.

[57:09] The Elephant Man.

[57:10] Okay,

[57:10] interesting.

[57:11] No,

[57:11] I could see that.

Elliott Kalan

[57:11] this most mainstream movie,

[57:13] I guess,

[57:13] other than The Straight Story.

[57:14] Although actually,

[57:15] in some ways,

[57:15] The Elephant Man

[57:16] is more mainstream

[57:16] than The Straight Story,

[57:17] to be honest,

[57:18] yeah.

Stuart Wellington

[57:19] And then we,

[57:21] number two would be

[57:22] Mulholland Drive.

[57:24] Yeah.

[57:25] I think it's a great movie.

[57:26] Followed closely by Blue Velvet.

[57:28] The bottoms are Dune.

Dan McCoy

[57:33] I forgot about Dune,

[57:35] I gotta admit,

[57:36] but at the same time,

[57:37] like,

[57:37] I am surprised

[57:38] because I feel like it

[57:39] picked up its,

[57:40] its cult,

[57:42] you know,

[57:43] in a way that,

[57:43] like,

[57:44] the Inland Empire

[57:45] is just,

[57:45] like,

[57:45] long and difficult.

[57:47] A lot of people,

Elliott Kalan

[57:48] like,

[57:48] I guess Dan acted

[57:49] like he had something

[57:49] to say,

[57:50] but when he opened

[57:50] his mouth,

[57:50] all that came out

[57:51] was a bunch of gibberish.

[57:52] Guess he forgot about Dune.

[57:53] Anyway,

[57:54] so,

[57:54] I didn't forget about Dune,

[57:56] but I also thought,

[57:56] I also thought that it's had

[57:57] this kind of,

[57:58] like,

[57:58] reappraisal by fans.

[58:00] I still think his,

[58:00] I still think his Dune

[58:01] is not very good.

[58:02] There's stuff I like in it,

[58:03] but it is,

[58:04] I rewatched it recently

[58:05] and I was like,

[58:05] this is still not very good,

[58:06] but I'm surprised

[58:07] that's still not.

Elliott Kalan

[58:07] I think there's a certain

Stuart Wellington

[58:07] reappraisal with the,

[58:09] the new,

[58:10] the newer Dune films

[58:11] that there's,

[58:12] like,

[58:12] this appreciation

[58:12] for this,

[58:13] like,

[58:14] odd duck,

[58:15] weirder,

[58:16] like,

[58:17] in some ways,

[58:18] more colorful

[58:18] science fiction take on it

[58:20] that also,

[58:21] isn't,

[58:22] you know,

[58:22] it doesn't all work,

[58:23] but,

[58:23] like,

[58:24] it's kind of fun,

[58:25] it's fun to see

[58:26] the,

[58:27] like,

[58:27] the other thing,

[58:28] you know what I mean?

[58:29] Yeah.

[58:30] And certainly more than

[58:31] the,

[58:32] the,

[58:32] like,

[58:33] sci-fi channel

[58:34] original miniseries

[58:35] that is,

[58:36] like,

[58:37] kind of crazy looking

[58:38] and has,

[58:39] like,

[58:39] the weirdest CD-ROM

[58:40] special effects.

Elliott Kalan

[58:41] I never saw those.

[58:42] I know there's some Dune fans

[58:43] that really love them.

[58:44] Yeah,

[58:44] my,

Stuart Wellington

[58:44] my,

[58:45] my parents,

[58:46] my parents were big fans of it

[58:48] because they liked

[58:49] that it was,

[58:50] I guess,

[58:50] close to the book for them.

[58:52] Inland Empire is very low.

[58:54] Yep.

Elliott Kalan

[58:54] So,

[58:55] Dune is the lowest one?

[58:56] Dune is the lowest.

[58:57] Then I feel like it's a matter of,

[58:58] like,

[58:59] that's either,

[59:01] that,

[59:01] that feels to me like

[59:02] Dune fans of the new,

[59:04] or fans of the new movie

[59:05] being like,

[59:05] this other one sucks.

[59:06] Give it low ones.

[59:07] Like,

[59:07] there's such a,

[59:07] there's always a battle

[59:08] going on behind the scenes.

[59:09] Fans were against it

Stuart Wellington

[59:10] from a pretty early point,

[59:11] right?

Elliott Kalan

[59:12] Yes.

[59:12] I mean,

[59:13] it's a,

[59:14] it just is not a satisfying

[59:15] telling of that story.

[59:17] And it makes some big changes

[59:18] that,

[59:19] I'll say the book,

[59:20] what is it,

[59:21] Epic in Disarray,

[59:22] whatever it's called,

[59:23] the book about the making

[59:24] of that Dune.

[59:25] There were things

[59:26] that were like,

[59:26] oh,

[59:26] okay,

[59:27] this aspect of it

[59:28] makes more sense to me now.

[59:29] Like,

[59:29] the weirding modules

[59:30] that allow them

[59:31] to use their voices to,

[59:32] but when you read the book,

[59:33] you're like,

[59:34] there's nothing,

[59:34] there's nothing like that

[59:35] in the book.

[59:36] Like,

[59:36] it's just not a,

[59:37] it's taking,

[59:38] it's really kind of

[59:40] dumbing down concepts

[59:41] in the book quite a bit.

[59:42] The new movies do that too

[59:44] to a certain extent,

[59:44] but just in a,

[59:45] in a more,

[59:46] it looks cool.

[59:48] Like,

Elliott Kalan

[59:48] it looks more sophisticated,

[59:49] you know?

Stuart Wellington

[59:50] And those,

[59:51] those movies also have

[59:52] a little more space

[59:52] and time to breathe

[59:53] and develop concept.

Elliott Kalan

[59:55] Yes.

[59:55] That second half

[59:56] of that David Lynch tune

[59:56] is real hard

[59:57] where it's just like,

[59:58] and then this happened

[59:59] and they went over here.

[1:00:00] This character died.

[1:00:01] Oh no.

[1:00:02] It really feels like

[1:00:03] a guy saw the movie

[1:00:04] and is just filling you in

[1:00:06] on what happens in it.

[1:00:06] Yeah, it's pretty great.

[1:00:07] Thank you,

Dan McCoy

[1:00:08] thank you, Elliot.

[1:00:08] You reminded me

[1:00:09] to go to my Libby app

[1:00:10] and see if A Masterpiece

[1:00:12] in Disarray was available

[1:00:13] for me to check out

[1:00:14] immediately on ebook,

[1:00:16] and it is.

[1:00:17] Oh,

[1:00:17] I mean,

[1:00:18] I'd lend you my copy

Stuart Wellington

[1:00:18] if we lived on the same coast,

[1:00:20] but.

[1:00:20] Above that,

[1:00:21] we have Inland Empire

[1:00:22] and Eraserhead

[1:00:24] and Wild at Heart

[1:00:24] tied near the bottom

[1:00:26] as well.

[1:00:26] Really?

[1:00:27] Yep.

[1:00:28] That surprises me.

[1:00:30] Okay,

[1:00:30] do we,

[1:00:31] do we agree with these?

[1:00:32] Do you have a personal favorite

[1:00:34] that might be,

[1:00:35] that isn't represented?

[1:00:36] Do you feel like

[1:00:37] The Elephant Man

[1:00:37] is his best film

[1:00:39] or your difference

[1:00:41] between a favorite

[1:00:42] or the best?

[1:00:43] I don't think

[1:00:43] The Elephant Man

Elliott Kalan

[1:00:44] is his best.

[1:00:45] I think it's very good.

[1:00:46] I think it's a very good movie,

[1:00:48] but it's like a,

[1:00:50] it's just,

[1:00:50] it's hard

[1:00:51] because it's so straightforward.

[1:00:52] Like,

[1:00:52] it's so straightforward

[1:00:53] and when you want

[1:00:55] David Lynch,

[1:00:55] you want something

[1:00:56] a little different.

Dan McCoy

[1:00:58] No,

[1:00:58] I like Mulholland Drive.

[1:00:59] I like Eraserhead.

[1:01:00] I actually like

[1:01:01] Lost Highway

[1:01:02] quite a bit.

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:04] Lost Highway

[1:01:04] is fairly high up here,

[1:01:06] which is kind of impressive

[1:01:07] because it is like,

[1:01:08] I feel like

[1:01:08] when it came out,

[1:01:09] it was both like,

[1:01:10] oh,

[1:01:10] this is pretty weird,

[1:01:11] but also like,

[1:01:12] it isn't,

[1:01:13] but it isn't like

[1:01:14] as good as

[1:01:15] Blue Velvet,

[1:01:16] right?

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:16] I think it's another one

[1:01:17] where like,

[1:01:18] I think there's a rediscovery

[1:01:20] when you start to understand

[1:01:21] what the person

[1:01:22] is trying to do

[1:01:23] in the movie,

[1:01:23] I guess.

[1:01:24] it's just amazing to me

[1:01:25] that Lost Highway

[1:01:25] was like,

[1:01:26] that was a major

[1:01:27] feature release

[1:01:28] that year.

[1:01:29] Yeah.

[1:01:29] And it's such a weird movie

[1:01:30] and it's like,

[1:01:31] that was advertised

[1:01:32] on the back of comic books,

[1:01:33] like it was everywhere.

[1:01:35] Like,

[1:01:35] you just think about like,

[1:01:36] there was a time

[1:01:36] when Lost Highway

[1:01:37] was like,

[1:01:38] yep,

[1:01:38] well,

[1:01:38] of course,

[1:01:38] we're going wide with this.

[1:01:39] This is of course

[1:01:40] a nationwide release.

[1:01:41] Yes.

[1:01:42] It's amazing.

[1:01:43] The same way that

[1:01:43] they,

[1:01:44] I was talking to you.

[1:01:45] Like,

Stuart Wellington

[1:01:45] kids love

[1:01:46] eyebrowless Robert Blake.

Elliott Kalan

[1:01:49] I was just the fact

[1:01:49] that like,

[1:01:50] yeah,

[1:01:50] well,

[1:01:50] halfway through the movie.

[1:01:50] Bill Pullman on a saxophone?

[1:01:52] Sure.

[1:01:52] But like,

[1:01:53] of course,

[1:01:53] halfway through the movie,

[1:01:54] one character turns into

[1:01:55] a different character

[1:01:55] and we're not really

[1:01:56] going to bother

[1:01:56] explaining it that much.

[1:01:58] But the,

[1:01:58] I was talking to,

[1:01:59] to my friend Jonah Ray

[1:02:01] recently about how

[1:02:02] there's something about

[1:02:03] David Lynch,

[1:02:05] like,

[1:02:05] there's something about like,

[1:02:06] how Eraserhead

[1:02:07] is such a strange movie

[1:02:08] and yet,

[1:02:09] if you walked into

[1:02:10] a video store

[1:02:11] in America,

[1:02:12] it was very likely

[1:02:13] there would be a copy

[1:02:14] of that movie there.

[1:02:15] And it just,

[1:02:16] just the reach

[1:02:17] David Lynch had

[1:02:18] for someone who was

[1:02:18] making such strange work.

[1:02:20] And it's almost like

[1:02:20] he shot the moon

[1:02:21] and his work was so strange

[1:02:23] that normies

[1:02:23] were interested into it.

[1:02:25] They were interested in it.

[1:02:26] Like,

[1:02:26] it's a,

[1:02:27] he really,

[1:02:28] he really,

[1:02:28] I gotta tell you,

[1:02:29] he really lucked out

[1:02:29] when Mel Brooks hired him

[1:02:31] to direct The Alpha Man

[1:02:31] and then it was like,

[1:02:32] yep,

[1:02:33] he's in.

[1:02:33] Okay, everybody.

[1:02:34] Yeah.

[1:02:34] He's the guy who's mainstream somehow.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:36] And part of it is also like,

[1:02:37] he brought a,

[1:02:40] he brought sex into,

[1:02:41] he brought sex into it

[1:02:43] and he also brought violence

[1:02:44] and I think that,

[1:02:45] those things kind of helped sell it.

[1:02:47] Yes,

[1:02:48] that's true.

[1:02:48] Because it made people be like,

[1:02:49] oh,

[1:02:50] there's naked people in this.

Elliott Kalan

[1:02:52] But also like,

[1:02:52] that has been for decades,

[1:02:54] that has been the key

[1:02:54] to getting people to watch

[1:02:55] artsier movies

[1:02:56] is to put nudity in it.

Stuart Wellington

[1:02:58] But the,

[1:03:00] I mean,

[1:03:00] we've talked about this before,

[1:03:01] I think,

[1:03:02] at one of our live shows,

[1:03:03] but the idea that like,

[1:03:05] for us nerd,

[1:03:07] like for us like,

[1:03:09] kind of weird nerd kids

[1:03:11] who weren't entirely satisfied

[1:03:13] with what pop culture

[1:03:14] was offering us,

[1:03:15] being able to walk into like,

[1:03:17] I don't know,

[1:03:18] a fucking Hastings superstore

[1:03:19] and be like,

[1:03:20] oh,

[1:03:20] I can buy

[1:03:21] like the Twin Peaks box set.

[1:03:24] Yeah.

[1:03:24] Or like,

[1:03:24] I can,

[1:03:25] like I have access to this,

[1:03:27] filmmakers,

[1:03:27] like most of the movies

[1:03:29] from this guy

[1:03:30] in any store

[1:03:32] in like the Midwest

[1:03:33] is crazy.

[1:03:34] Yeah.

[1:03:35] And like,

[1:03:35] I feel like that's,

[1:03:37] that's,

[1:03:37] in a pre-internet time,

[1:03:39] that was such an essential lifeline

[1:03:40] for people to feel seen

[1:03:42] and be able to like,

[1:03:44] feel that there's a bigger,

[1:03:46] artier world out there

[1:03:47] and be excited about movies.

[1:03:49] Yeah.

[1:03:51] Okay.

[1:03:51] So that was a fun little trip.

[1:03:53] I hope you guys had fun

[1:03:54] talking about-

[1:03:55] Top movie,

[1:03:55] Fire Walk With Me.

[1:03:56] Tops and flops.

[1:03:57] Yeah.

[1:03:57] Fire Walk With Me is your top.

[1:03:59] No, no,

[1:03:59] it's not your top, no.

[1:04:01] Tops and flops.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:03] Thank you, Stuart,

[1:04:03] for making us think

[1:04:04] a little bit differently

[1:04:05] about these directors,

[1:04:07] you know.

Stuart Wellington

[1:04:07] Yeah.

[1:04:08] In the direction

[1:04:09] we're going

[1:04:12] in this mini,

[1:04:13] so I'm in Taylor Wellington.

[1:04:15] This is a mini episode

[1:04:17] of the Flophouse Podcast.

[1:04:18] It is,

[1:04:19] we are on the

[1:04:20] Maximum Fun Network.

[1:04:21] There's plenty of great

[1:04:22] shows that are both fun

[1:04:24] and informative.

[1:04:25] Check them out.

[1:04:26] If you like this show,

[1:04:27] there's probably

[1:04:27] another show for you.

[1:04:30] This show is produced

[1:04:30] by Alexander Smith.

[1:04:31] He goes by

[1:04:32] HowlDotty on the internet.

[1:04:34] You can find him on Twitch,

[1:04:35] various other social media platforms.

[1:04:37] You can buy his music

[1:04:38] on Bandcamp.

[1:04:39] He is the best

[1:04:40] and he makes us sound

[1:04:41] great.

[1:04:44] Put some filters on that.

[1:04:45] Put some filters on that.

[1:04:48] For the Flophouse,

[1:04:49] I've been Stuart Wellington.

[1:04:51] I've been Dan McCoy.

Elliott Kalan

[1:04:52] I've been Ellie Kalin

[1:04:53] and remain so to this day.

[1:04:54] See ya.

[1:05:01] A worker-owned network

Dan McCoy

[1:05:03] of artist-owned shows

[1:05:05] supported

[1:05:06] directly

[1:05:06] by you.

FH Mini 153 - Tops and Flops

Transcript

In this episode

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